HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 2019-05-08 MinutesCity of Miami
City Hall
3500 Pan American Drive
Miami, FL 33133
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Meeting Minutes
Wednesday, May 8, 2019
9:00 AM
Special Meeting
City Hall
City Commission
Francis Suarez, Mayor
Ken Russell, Chair
Wifredo (Willy) Gort, Vice Chair
Joe Carollo, Commissioner, District Three
Manolo Reyes, Commissioner, District Four
Keon Hardemon, Commissioner, District Five
Emilio T. Gonzalez, City Manager
Victoria Mendez, City Attorney
Todd B. Hannon, City Clerk
City Commission Meeting Minutes May 8, 2019
9:00 AM INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Present. Chair Russell, Vice Chair Gort, Commissioner Carollo, Commissioner Reyes
and Commissioner Hardemon.
On the 8th day of May, 2019, the City Commission of the City of Miami, Florida, met at its
regular meeting place in City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami, Florida, in special
session. The Commission Meeting was called to order by Chair Russell at 9:27 a.m., recessed
at 9:34 a.m., reconvened at 10:36 a.m., recessed at 12:11 p.m., reconvened at 2:36 p.m.,
recessed at 4:12 p.m., reconvened at 4:22 p.m., and adjourned at 7.27p.m.
Note for the Record. Commissioner Carollo entered the Commission chambers at 9:28 a.m.,
Commissioner Reyes entered the Commission chambers at 9:28 am., and Commissioner
Hardemon entered the Commission chambers at 10:47 am.
ALSO PRESENT.
Francisco Garcia, Planning Director
Victoria Mendez, City Attorney
Todd R Hannon, City Clerk
Chair Russell: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the May 8, 2019 special meeting of
the City of Miami Commission in these historic chambers. The members of the City
Commission are Joe Carollo, Manolo Reyes, Keon Hardemon; Wifredo "Willy" Gort, the Vice
Chair; and me, Ken Russell, the Chairman. Also on the dais are Emilio Gonzalez, the City
Manager; Victoria Mendez, the City Attorney; and Todd Hannon, the City Clerk. This special
meeting will be opened with a prayer by Commissioner Gort, and then we'll say the pledge of
allegiance. Please rise.
Vice Chair Gort. Good morning.
(Invocation and pledge of allegiance delivered)
ORDER OF THE DAY
Victoria Mendez (City Attorney): Chairman, I will read the procedures to cut down on the time
right when you come back, okay? Any person who is a lobbyist, including all paid persons or
firms retained by a principal to advocate for a particular decision by the City Commission, must
register with the City Clerk and comply with the related City requirements for lobbyists before
appearing before the City Commission. A person may not lobby a City official, board member,
or staff member until registering. A copy of the Code section about lobbyists is available in the
City Clerk's Office, or online at wwmunicode.com [sic]. Any person making a presentation,
formal request or petition to the City Commission concerning real property must make the
disclosures required by the City Code in writing. A copy of this Code section is available in the
City Clerk's Office, or online at wwwmunicode.com [sic]. The material for each item on the
agenda is available during business hours at the City Clerk's Office, and online 24 hours a day
at wwwmiamigov.com [sic]. Any person may be heard by the City Commission through the
Chair for not more than two minutes on any proposition before the City Commission, unless
modified by the Chair. If the proposition is being continued or rescheduled, the opportunity to
be heard may be at such later date before the City Commission takes action on such
proposition. The Chairman will advise the public when the public may have the opportunity to
address the City Commission during the public comment period. When addressing the City
Commission, the member of the public must first state his or her name, his or her address, and
what item will be spoken about. A copy of the agenda item titles will be available at the City
Clerk's Office or at the podium for your ease of reference. Anyone wishing to appeal any
decision made by the City Commission for any matter considered at this meeting may need a
verbatim record of the item. A video of this meeting may be requested at the Office of
Communications, or viewed online at wwwmiamigov.com [sic]. No cell phones or other noise -
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making devices are permitted in chambers; please silence those devices now. No clapping,
applauding, heckling, or verbal outburst in support or opposition to a speaker or his or her
remarks shall be permitted. Any person making offensive remarks or who becomes unruly in
Commission chambers will be barred from further attending Commission meetings and may be
subject to arrest. No signs or placards shall be allowed in Commission chambers. Any person
with a disability requiring assistance, auxiliary aids and services for this meeting may notify the
City Clerk. The lunch recess will begin at the conclusion of the deliberation of the agenda item
being considered at noon. The special meeting will conclude at the deliberation of the agenda
item being considered at 10 p.m., or at the conclusion of the regularly scheduled agenda,
whichever occurs first. Please note, Commissioners have generally been briefed by City staff
and the City Attorney on items on the agenda today. Mr. Clerk, would you like to swear in
everyone to also cut down the time?
Todd B. Hannon (City Clerk): Thank you, Madam City Attorney. Good morning, ladies and
gentlemen. If you'll be speaking on today's item, may I please have you stand and raise your
right hand?
The City Clerk administered oath required under City Code Section 62-1 to those persons
giving testimony.
Commissioner Hardemon: Thank you. Thank you, Madam City Attorney. For the record, the
meeting is in recess.
Later...
Chair Russell: Good afternoon. Welcome back from recess, from lunch. We are picking up
where we left off for the completion of public comment. Who here is left to speak for public
comment? Who here would like to speak? If you could approach either of the two lecterns, and
I'll ask the Clerk, in case there's anyone here who has not yet been sworn in -- Is there anyone
here who has not yet been sworn in who would like to speak? Anyone who would like to speak
who will be speaking at the lecterns? I'll let the Clerk take that up.
Mr. Hannon: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. If you have not had the oath
administered, may I please have you stand and raise your right hand? Again, if you'll be
speaking on today's item and you have not had the oath administered, may I please have you
stand and raise your right hand?
The City Clerk administered oath required under City Code Section 62-1 to those persons
giving testimony.
Mr. Hannon: Thank you, Chair.
Chair Russell: Commissioner Carollo.
Commissioner Carollo: Thank you, Chairman. Since I have not spoken until now, I'd just like
to put in the record for Jennings that I did meet with Mayor Gimenez. I met with --
Unidentified Speaker: Hello? We can't hear you.
Commissioner Carollo: Let me try again. Since I have not spoken yet, I want to put into the
record for Jennings that I did meet with Mayor Gimenez and I met with his assistant on this
matter, also. I don't know if I met with anyone from the other side that I could think of now, but
those are the only people that I remember having spoken to.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Commissioner.
Commissioner Carollo: Thank you.
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SPECIAL MEETING ITEM(S)
SPA
RESOLUTION
5653
A RESOLUTION OF THE MIAMI CITY COMMISSION
GRANTING/DENYING THE APPEAL FILED BY MICHAEL SPRING,
Department of
SENIOR ADVISOR, OFFICE OF THE MAYOR, DIRECTOR,
Planning
DEPARTMENT OF CULTURAL AFFAIRS, MIAMI-DADE COUNTY
("APPELLANT") AND REVERSING/AFFIRMING/MODIFYING THE
DECISION OF THE MIAMI HISTORIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL
PRESERVATION BOARD'S DENIAL, PURSUANT TO SEC. 23-6.2(b)(4)
OF THE CODE OF THE CITY OF MIAMI, FLORIDA, AS AMENDED, OF
THE APPLICATION FOR A SPECIAL CERTIFICATE OF
APPROPRIATENESS FOR THE RESTORATION OF AN EXISTING
STRUCTURE AND NEW CONSTRUCTION OF A THREE HUNDRED
(300) SEAT THEATER, A PARKING STRUCTURE, AND EXTERIOR
SPACES WITH LANDSCAPING TO A PROPERTY LOCATED AT
APPROXIMATELY 3500 MAIN HIGHWAY, MIAMI, FLORIDA, A
LOCALLY DESIGNATED HISTORIC SITE AND KNOWN AS COCONUT
GROVE PLAYHOUSE WITH THE FOLIO NUMBER 0141210450140.
ENACTMENT NUMBER: R-19-0169
MOTION TO: Adopt with Modification(s)
RESULT: ADOPTED WITH MODIFICATION(S)
MOVER: Joe Carollo, Commissioner
SECONDER: Manolo Reyes, Commissioner
AYES: Gort, Carollo, Reyes
NAYS: Russell, Hardemon
Note for the Record: A motion was made by Chair Russell, seconded by
Commissioner Hardemon, to grant in part and deny in part the appeal filed by
Michael Spring, which FAILED by the following vote: AYES: Chair Russell and
Commissioner Hardemon; NOES: Vice Chair Gort, Commissioners Carollo and
Reyes.
Chair Russell: Good morning again. We are back in session. Thank you very
much for your patience. We do have a quorum, so we will begin directly with SP.1.
This is the appeal of the HEP (Historic & Environmental Preservation) Board
decision regarding 3500 Main Highway, the Coconut Grove Playhouse. So did the
City Attorney read the statement already? Good So we're set to go. Basically,
here's how we're going to do today: We're going to open for public comment first
on the item; anyone who'd like to speak. If there's any elected officials here who'd
like to speak who need to get on with their business, as well, I welcome them and
I'll recognize them. Everyone will have two minutes to speak. If you'd like to loan
your time to someone else that has a little more to say, I'm okay with that. I really
would like its to control any emotional response from the audience to anything that
anybody says at the lectern just for fairness and that goes for applause, and that
goes for negative, as well; that way, we can be as efficient as possible, and the
Commissioners can do their work in hearing this appeal. Do we have people
outside trying to get in? We're above capacity of Commission. About how many,
would you say? Another 50 to 20. And they -- there are people that would like to
speak, I assume. All right. So as you speak, you either need to take an open seat in
the Commission chambers, or please step out into -- let someone else come in, and
that way, we can keep working through everybody, and nobody will be stuck in the
hot sun. I believe we have speakers set up outside so you can keep track of what's
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happening, but we really want everyone to get their moment and their chance.
After public comment is closed, that'll be the last time that the general members of
the public are able to speak on this issue. From that point, the City basically will
set the table for what we're dealing with today. The appellant will make their case,
and then the Commissioners will ask questions of staff and the appellant, and
anyone they'd like to hear from. And at that point, we will make our decision. So
are we all clear? We do still have a quorum. We're ready to get started.
Commissioner Gort.
Vice Chair Gort: A Jennings disclosure. I've met with the parties from both sides,
in favor and against it, and I think I met with over 20 different individuals.
Chair Russell: Sure. And the same disclosure for my part. I've met with everyone
from all sides of this issue. But, of course, we're dealing with the facts that are
presented before us today, and that leaves us in an unbiased situation.
Commissioner Reyes: I would like also to disclose that I have been approached by
members of the community on both sides and I received information, written
information supporting their position, and so many that I cannot enumerate, I
mean, name all of them. But that I have spoken with members of the community
that were in favor and against this issue.
Chair Russell: Thank you. So before we begin the comment from the general
public, are there any elected officials who would like to be recognized or speak?
Mr. Mayor, would you like to address the dais or the public before we get into
public comment? Okay. All right. If that's the case, we'll go ahead and start with
public comment. Do you need to swear everyone in, Todd?
Todd B. Hannon (City Clerk): It was already handled earlier this morning.
Chair Russell: And the folks outside?
Mr. Hannon: Well, whoever was in the chambers; so we'll just have to take them as
they come in.
Chair Russell: So if the Sergeant -at -Arms could let anyone know who is on their
way in, they need to be sworn in before they speak publicly. Obviously, the Clerk
won't know who has been or has not been sworn in. All right. So in the spirit of
efficiency, anyone who'd like to speak on this issue for or against the appeal, please
approach either of the two lecterns. Please be ready and stacked right behind the
next person so that after they complete their two minutes, the next person go on up.
If you would please state your name; you don't have to state your address, but you
can if you'd like. It's helpful to us if you state clearly whether you are in favor of or
against the appeal, but that's up to you, and you have your two minutes to address
this body. Please don't speak to each other or to the audience, but just address the
Commission, and speak through the Chair. And so, we'll start over here, Mr.
Amandi.
Fernand Amandi: Fernand Amandi, 3250 Mary Street, in Miami, 33133. Thank
you to the Mayor, to the City, and to the Commission for allowing me the
opportunity to address all of you. I know you all are here to make a decision today
and I know many of you think of it as a difficult decision, but I thought it was
important to share with you what the most important stakeholders in the City, as it
pertains to the playhouse question, believe on this issue. Our firm, Bendixen and
Amandi, was asked to conduct a poll of the residents and voters in Commission
District 2, which is where the playhouse debate is centralized and focused. We put
the question as to whether or not they thought the County plan, as it's on the table
now, was something that they would support or not. And I'm here to share with you
that from the vantage point of the residents and voters of District 2, which includes
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all of Coconut Grove, there really is not a difficult decision, but an easy decision.
78 percent; 78 percent, which is more than three quarters of the voters,
overwhelmingly support the County plan, as presented. In the interest of
transparency, I'm going to read you the very question we read them so that people
can't say later, "Well, you didn't get the information," so I'll do this very quickly.
"The Coconut Grove Playhouse, which has been closed for the past 12 years, has
been the subject of various proposals to renovate and reopen the facility. Miami -
Dade County currently has a proposed plan, which has been funded, calling for a
20 million, 300 -seat, state-of-the-art theater, to be operated by local theater
company, GableStage, in partnership with MU's (Florida International
University's) drama program. The current playhouse's historic front building will
be preserved and restored to its original 1927 look. The rest of the site will be torn
down and rebuilt to accommodate modern productions, while also preserving
historical design elements of the original theater's architectural integrity. The
newly restored playhouse will house administrative offices, dressing rooms, set
design and rehearsal space, and features a landscaped open-air promenade
alongside the building, connecting Main Highway to Coconut -- to West Grove. "
Chair Russell: Thank you, Mr. Amandi.
Mr. Amandi: "Do you support or oppose Miami -Dade County's plan to redevelop
the Coconut Grove Playhouse?" When we asked that question a month ago, the
answer was, 78 percent said, 'yes. " A year ago when we asked that same question,
it was 77 percent. In the --
Chair Russell: Mr. Amandi --
Mr. Amandi: -- Grove alone, it was 74 percent. So as you can see, there really is
no debate when it comes to the residents and the voters. Thank you for your time.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mayor Francisco Suarez: Mr. Chair?
Chair Russell: Please, when you hear the sound, that means you have 30 seconds,
and that is your time to wrap up.
Mayor Suarez: Mr. Chair?
Chair Russell: And I would like to ask if anyone is here on behalf and speaking
and working with the appellant, you're going to have much, much more time to
make your case if you wait until the actual appellant makes their case, and you
won't be pressured to be under the two minutes. But everyone here --
Unidentified Speaker: (UNINTELLIGIBLE.)
Chair Russell: I'm sorry; you couldn't hear something?
Unidentified Speaker: (UNINTELLIGIBLE.)
Chair Russell: Oh, there's --yes, there's a beep at the 30 -second point. You can't
control the volume, but, yes. But I'll let you know, as well. I'll let you know, as
well. Commissioner -- sorry, I apologize. Mr. Mayor, you're recognized, of course.
Mayor Suarez: I have to -- we have to increase your salary at the next Commission
meeting, Commissioner. Thank you for that. No, I just want the audience to know
that I have to leave at about 11:15. I will becoming back. But I know the audience
is always very sensitive to elected officials listening to their perspective, and I don't
want them to get the impression that I'm not listening or that I'm not fully informed
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of what's going on. I have to leave at 11:15. I just want the audience to know so
that I don't later get emails and text messages, "Why did you leave?" So that's all.
Thank you.
Chair Russell. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm going to alternate lecterns. Please
stand right behind the person who is speaking so you can move right up and go
ahead, and begin speaking. Good morning, Mr. Sanchez -Resnick.
Hank Sanchez -Resnick: Good morning. Hank Sanchez -Resnick. I live at 3259
Gifford Lane, Coconut Grove. I am in support of the County plan, and I'm also a
member of the Coconut Grove Village Council. We did a very thorough study of
the various plans, and we support as a council the County plan. One thing we did
was we crunched the numbers. We said, "What kind of theater is going to be viable
in that location?" And we came up with the conclusion that a 300 -seat theater will
be absolutely okay, and has a good chance of making it, whereas a much larger
theater probably is going to have problems. So I just want to urge you to approve
the County plan today. Thank you very much.
Chair Russell: That was less than a minute. Thank you very much, Hank.
Nathan Kurland: I'll take Hank's extra minute.
Chair Russell. Mr. Kurland.
Mr. Kurland: Nathan Kurland, 3132 Day Avenue. Commissioner, ladies and
gentlemen, neighbors and friends, during a time in which citizen apathy and un-
involvement is rampant, we can look at ourselves and be proud that we are this
energized. Starting this meeting at 10:35 reminds me of a line by Dave Barry, who
said, "In the City of Miami, you can invite someone for a July 4th barbecue. As
long as they arrive by New Year's Eve, they're on time. " On May 12, 2006, during
its 50th anniversary season, the Playhouse, LLC (Limited Liability Company)
closed the theater, with a debt of more than $4 million; May 12, 2006. For those of
you who care and who counted, this is 4,741 days without a playhouse. Let me
repeat that number: 4,741 days. We have no excuse, because to add injury to
insult, there have been two GOB (General Obligation Bond) bonds in existence
since 2004, whose sole purpose was to rebuild our theater. 2006, I had the honor
to serve as Chair of the Give it Back Committee, which is why I have this yellow
button on. Our purpose was to convince the LLC to work with the County to
negotiate the debt, clear the title; rescue the memorabilia, which had been left to
rot; and give the clear -- and give the title back to Miami -Dade County, before the
State exercised its reverter clause. We were successful in all of those demands. We
are now working toward a common goal. We wish to have our theater returned.
But more importantly, we wish to have a self-sustaining theater returned. And in
that regard, I am absolutely in favor of the County's plan to build our theater.
Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Mr. Kurland. Good morning.
Julian Kreeger: If it please the council, my name is Julian Kreeger. I'm a resident
of Coconut Grove. My ojFce is in Coconut Grove. I am the President of the friends
of Chamber Music, which is a concert series, which brings to Miami
internationally -known performers for chamber music and piano music, and I've
been President for the past 34 years. I think Coconut Grove desperately needs a
good concert hall. I think 300 seats in the County plan would be ideal, and I want
to urge you to approve it without further delay.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Good morning.
Linda Cardinal Schneider: Good morning. My name is Linda Cardinal Schneider.
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I'm an author and a playwright, and I reside at 325 Ives Dairy Road, in Miami.
I've addressed this board several times on behalf of the City's plan to renovate the
Coconut Grove Playhouse, and on behalf of Mr. Joe Adler, who plans to offer
educational programs for children, "K" through 12; and for adults, a master's
degree, in conjunction with FIU. I had to travel to England to attain my education
in theater, but I predict that people will travel to Coconut Grove for the same
opportunity. We owe it to our community to offer the opportunity to experience,
learn, experiment, and produce profound theater in a professional environment that
will increase their world views and decrease their prejudice of those working on
stage, behind the scene, and in the audience. So I would urge my friends on the
board to make our community a cultural center of love and acceptance. And that's
all I can say; is to remind you of the reasons that I've given in the past. Thank you
so much for this opportunity.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Did you hear the "beep"?
Rebecca Curtis: Please. Commission, Dr. Rebecca Curtis, 3613 Bayview Road.
I'm a resident of Coconut Grove, and I also have an office here. I bought my house
five years ago, down the street from the playhouse, expecting the playhouse to open
again. My office in New York City, where I was practicing through December of
the past year, was 10 minutes from Broadway. And I had patients in every aspect
of the theater. I'd like to make three points: One regards the financial situation of
theaters in the United States today, which it seems like many people here are
ignorant of, unless they're in the theater. I'd also like to make a point about
historic preservation, because I do not see the interior of this playhouse as
comparable to the Taj Mahal or (UNINTELLIGIBLE), or a place people will pay to
have tickets in the daytime, like the Gary Auditorium in LA (Los Angeles). And I
also would like to address whatever possible motivations there may be that are
nefarious of people who may come here who may have hopes, but it's demolished;
and that maybe a real estate developer will put something else there, or other
theaters that are in competition. And in regard to the financial business of a
theater, investing in theater is one of the most risky investments anybody can make.
It's one -- people in the top, .11 percent make when they love a particular
production, and most fail. They are not these Broadway musicals that you may
have heard of. Speaking of Broadway, for example, the Helen Hayes Theater has a
maximum capacity of 597 seats. I won't say, because I respect people who
disagree, but I think there is something of a playhouse delusional procedure going
on among some people who are picturing the glories of the past before Netflix and
all of the competition.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Ms. Curtis: Okay.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
David Kuriat: Hi. I'm David Kuriat. I'm an actor and educator at 1107 Southwest
114th Lane Circle, in Miami, Florida. I'm speaking on behalf of Sylvan Seidman
(phonetic), who's been at many of these meetings, but he's out of the country right
now, and he asked me to say this, with apologies to Bob Dylan: How many votes
does it take before the reasonable decision stays, and how many years does it take
until people can see more good plays? The answer, my friends, is not blowing in
the wind. It is, for one last time, in your hands. Please approve the County plan
that has been examined and approved by so many levels over so many years, and
now needs only your approval. This plan is rejected in the hopes that some
amorphous plan for a much larger theater can rise out of the Coconut Grove
rubble. There will be many more years of inaction; and not only the answer, but
probably the structure itself will be blowing in the wind. Thank you.
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Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Good morning, Steve.
Steve Dloogoff Good morning. Steve Dloogoff, 3418 Franklin Avenue, a member
of -- a resident of Coconut Grove for 30 years, and a member of the Coconut Grove
Village Council. I urge you to consider and accept the County plan that Michael
Spring and Joe Adler have developed for the Coconut Grove Playhouse. Anything
larger is not economically feasible, and I think that the education part that they
have presented will certainly be an enhancement to Coconut Grove. The Coconut
Grove Village Council has researched and absolutely supported the County plan.
Thank you very much.
Chair Russell: Good morning, Monty.
Monty Trainer: Monty Trainer, 3390 Mary Street, Coconut Grove. I'm here to
speak on behalf of the County's application to the playhouse project as a way of
credibility as far as I'm concerned. I'm President of the Coconut Grove Arts
Festival. I'm President of the Coconut Grove Chamber. I sit on the board of the
Business Improvement District for Dade County -- for City of Coconut Grove. I'm
Chairman of Dade County Days, and we go to Tallahassee every year.
Chair Russell: They can't hear you, Monty. If you could -- thank you.
Mr. Trainer: Thank you. I get to start over again?
Chair Russell: No, you're -- we hear you.
Mr. Trainer: I'm Chairman of Dade County Days, and we go to Tallahassee every
year and lobby on behalf of Dade County for culture, art, and any other things that
affect Dade County culturally speaking. I'm also Chairman of the -- and founder of
the event that we have at New Year's Eve that attracts 100,000 people downtown
for 30 years. I started Monty's Restaurant -- a few of you may have been there -- in
1969, which was over 50 years ago. And then, I built the Village Inn, Monty's
Village Inn, in 1973. Now, all these things that I was doing in the Grove, the
playhouse was really a big part of it, and I used to have cast parties after every
show. And then, I was part of the group that -- with the Players Reparatory
Theater that went to the Coconut Grove Playhouse, and we started with the
Reparatory Theater. Anyway, I don't think that people are really aware of just how
great the Cultural Affairs Council is in Miami -Dade County. With the South Dade
Cultural Affairs, what we've done there, 38 -million -dollar budget on schedule. We
did the African Heritage Art. I thought you gave me another two minutes.
Chair Russell: No, you're almost there.
Mr. Trainer: But if you could see what we do at the Cultural Affairs -- I've been on
the Cultural Affairs Council now for 14 years. I was the Mayor's appointment at
one point, so I really appreciate that. We do so much. What we do for Dade
County as far as maintaining the artist and the integrity of what we're trying to
accomplish in art and cul -- we are a Cultural Council, and we do perform. And
we've got an opportunity here with Miami Parking Authority with Art Noriega.
That's a national model. The Cultural Affairs Council is a national model, and why
we don't take advantage of it --
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Trainer: -- and we got Joe and -- Joe Adler, who's artistically awarded every
year.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
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Mr. Trainer: Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Good morning, Carol.
Carol Lopez -Bethel: I'm Carol Lopez -Bethel. I reside at 3907 Loquat Avenue. I
feel like a voice in the wind, being the first to say that I oppose the appeal. The
people of the City of Miami voted for restoration -- not demolition -- 14 years ago.
And this is what should happen, and why you should consider either Richard
Heisenbottle's plan or something to restore the entire building; not destroy it. That
is the will of the constituents. I will say I was not one of the people who received
that survey that went around. I believe that the Miami Herald also published some
questions about the authenticity and the conduct of that survey that returned 78
percent results in favor of the County plan. I never received it; I don't know anyone
who lives in Coconut Grove who did. But nonetheless, I've used my time. I've said
what I had to say. Please preserve what little there is remaining of Coconut Grove
in Coconut Grove. Each day, we see more and more of Coconut Grove removed.
We now have -- we have one access in coming in on Main Highway. We have now
another hotel coming up on the other side of Green Street's. The entrance to
Coconut Grove will become a canyon; a canyon. Coconut Grove is being
destroyed, bit by bit. Save something of it. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Carol.
Ms. Lopez -Bethel: I appreciate it.
Chair Russell: Good morning.
Gail Garrison: Hi. Good morning. My name is Gail Garrison. I'm a theater
director, and I have been in the community since 1992. I worked at the Grove when
I first came here. For those of you who haven't been inside -- the inner inside of
Coconut Grove -- it was falling apart then inside. It was moldy then. It was not a
place necessarily to be saved, but it could have been redone then. It was ignored
then. As a person who's worked in this community, from Jupiter to here in Miami,
and worked at GableStage, also; and at FIU, because we do get around in theater,
I can tell you what a really exceptional idea it is for the community to create this
space, to save the part that is historical, just the outside, to bring back the best
parts again -- the proscenium -- to keep some of what was there, and bring it back.
But we're in another world now. Let's respect the world and this community, and
bring education and arts back where it belongs. I am for this County proposal. It
has been vetted many, many times. And I am here today, once again, to support it.
Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you for your comments.
Abraham Hoffman: My legal name is Abraham Hoffman. My stage name is Avi
Hoffman. I wrote this several meetings ago, and I've driven from Northwest
Broward, two hours each way, every single one of those meetings. I'm here to
speak in support of Joseph Adler and Grove Stage [sic]. Although I'm known by
some here as a local actor who has worked with Joe on multiple highly -acclaimed
productions since 2003, I have also achieved substantial recognition for my work
around the globe. In the past three years alone, I was nominated for a New York
Drama Desk Award as best actor in the play, Death of a Salesman. I received a
Congressional Recognition Award from the Honorable Congresswoman Debbie
Wasserman Schultz. I was inducted into the Bronx Jewish Hall of Fame, and I was
personally invited to the Vatican to meet His Holiness, Pope Francis; all for my
lifetime work in promoting Holocaust awareness, Jewish culture, and theater. I
taught a theater course at UM (University of Miami), and I perform regularly all
over the world, including my recent sold -outperformance at Carnegie Hall, and my
upcoming trip to the Fourth International Theater Festival in Romania. I tell you
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all this so that you will believe me when I say that in my expert professional
opinion, the work Joe Adler has done at GableStage is world-class, and that he will
bring this same expertise and high quality to Grove Stage [sic], allowing this
proposed theater to become a nationally -respected destination, and a highly
successful regional theater. I say this from my own personal global perspective,
having worked at major cultural institutions and theaters worldwide. I am friends
with many Broadway producers and theater luminaries, several of whom have seen
our work, and often used; that Joe's production were sometimes equal to or better
than the original New York versions. In other words, we're privileged to have him
in our community, and I'm proud to call him my friend. And pending your
affirmative decision, I look forward to working with him and seeing all of you at the
new Grove Stage.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Mr. Hoffman: Thank you.
Chair Russell: Good morning.
Barbara Stein: Good morning, Commissioners. Good morning, audience. My
name is Barbara Stein. I'm the Executive Producing Director of Actors Playhouse,
located in the Historic Miracle Theater in Coral Gables. I speak to you today with
31 years of experience of doing my job; of building a theater company, of
managing it for 31 years, and of being the force behind the renovation and the
revitalization of the Historic Miracle Theater, which was a showcase movie house
in 1948; converted to a four-plus house in the '80s; and we've since converted it
over the last 24 years into a three -stage performing arts center. There's a very
tight balance between historic preservation and moving forward for the purpose of
what you're intending to do. And I know your intention is to rebuild a beautiful
space, to have economic prosperity in the community, because I can tell you that
building and restoring the Miracle Theater into a performing arts center was the
catalyst for the revitalization of downtown Coral Gables, which now has over a
hundred restaurants, lots of retail, a museum, and an arts cinema. I urge you to
consider the County plan. I know -- I've seen the plans, and I know your architect
on record, who has really seriously looked at the historic elements that needed to
be preserved in this building. There's a real tight balance between that, because I
dealt that when we rebuilt and renovated. And the ultimate goal is the outcome of
this beautiful, beautiful theater being preserved and coming back. I'd also like to
address the fact of 300 seats. We have a 600 seat and a 300 seat, and a 100 black
box in the Miracle Theater. I could tell you we wish we were performing in the 300
seat all year long. This community cannot support another larger performing arts
space. We have the beautiful Arsht Center, which I understand scrambles to fill
seats in this community, as well. We want to preserve what we have here. There's
a bit of a big investment in this community it centers around and we need to make
sure that we preserve the integrity of these spaces, and the economic benefit to the
community.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Ms. Stein: Thank you.
Chair Russell: Good morning, sir.
Kenneth Kurtz: Good morning. My name is Ken Kurtz. I live at 12900 Southwest
81st Avenue, in Pinecrest. I designed scenery for the Coconut Grove Playhouse
and lighting from 1969 on up to the days of Jose Ferrer. Really?
Chair Russell: There you go. Thank you.
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Mr. Kurtz: Okay. And I can tell you I loved working in the building, but I could
never love the building. I don't see anything worth saving in that building, except
its fagade. It did have the best balcony in town, but its backstage was rot -- was a
lousy, hard -to -work -with thing. And I thoroughly applaud the new plan
Arquitectonica's plan, preserving the one wonderful thing out of the old theater,
which was the double proscenium, but here was the problem: The old double
proscenium had walls, ceiling between the two prosceniums. We died to get
lighting through there, or even enter actors through there, or do something through
there. The new one, there's one proscenium behind, free standing as the other
proscenium. We can move scenery, lighting, costumes, orchestra, anything in
through there, and it really makes what was a pig -- a sow's eye or -- whatever the
thing -- whatever the cliche is. It takes something in the old building that really
wasn't wonderful; makes it wonderful, as a centerpiece of the new idea, and I
applaud it, and I hope you vote for it.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Good morning, Mr. Fein.
Alan Fein: Good morning. I am Alan Fein. I am the immediate past Chair of the
Arsht Center Board. I am the former Chair of the Cultural Affairs Council for the
County. And perhaps one of the things I'm very proud of is that I chaired the City
of Miami's committee to find an NBA (National Basketball Association) team for
Miami. And I worked with the Mayor's father, and we were obviously successful.
And I am now one of the shortest people in the world with an NBA Championship
ring. I'm here today to speak in favor of the County plan. At the time I was helping
the City get the Heat, my wife was the Public Relations Director at the Coconut
Grove Playhouse, and she asked me to pass on her thoughts today, because every
morning when she went there, she had to wipe the asbestos off of her typewriter,
and then deal with the mold. And everyone there knew they were in a sick building.
And I can't imagine what it's like after it's percolated for another 15 years. It's got
to go. It's got to go. It cannot be saved, and the new plan is great in that regard.
Putting aside my citizen's hat for a minute, as a lawyer, I've read the legal
argument about why this appeal must pass, and I think it's overwhelming. I had the
opportunity to speak with this Commission a year or so ago about another time
when I thought, legally, the City had to take a certain action. And coincidentally,
you had to deal with that issue today, and I think the advice I gave you at that time
turned out to be prescient. Finally, I just want to speak to -- as a nonprofit theater
producer. My wife produces theater in Dade County, and I can tell you that there's
no way that you could fill 700 seats with -- 200 nights a year, 140,000 new seat --
butts in the seats. It cannot be done.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Fein: The plan, coming from my friend, Mike, I appreciate what he's trying to
do, and I appreciate all the time and money he's put in, but --
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Fein: --I simply can't agree with the plan. We need to move on --
Chair Russell: Understood.
Mr. Fein: -- at this time.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Mr. Fein. Good morning.
Larry Fields: Good morning. My name is Larry Fields. I'm the Executive and
Artistic Director of Fantasy Theater Factory at the Sandrell Rivers Theater, here in
Miami, 6103 Northwest 7th Avenue. I am here to speak in favor of the County's
plan, as well. And I really hope that we're registering something, because, you
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know, before me, you've hada number of other people who are experts in this field,
who are people who run theaters, who are active in the cultural community. They
all come down on one side, and that's not by accident; that's not some sort of
bizarre coincidence. It's because we know; we know what it takes, and what it's
like to have to fill -- in my case, 200 seats -- and it's absolutely true; times have
changed. We are not the snow bird, New York retiree community that we once
were. 700 seats will fail. It will fail. Let's be clear about that. And how do we
know? Because it already did, all right? So I really hope that we are going to look
at this in a clear-eyed kind of way; not be victims to nostalgia. I want to speak just
-- you know, the County's plan is the only viable plan. It's the only plan that has the
money and the funding behind it. And the HEP Board, when it first approved the
plan, made the right decision. Things got a little weird after that. So I sincerely
hope that this board will approve this plan. It is the best of all worlds. It restores
that front building back to its original glory, and it provides us with a new,
beautiful state-of-the-art theater, one that will work. And I just want to say
something about historic preservation. What's there? And let's imagine for a
moment that this other plan were to be able to happen -- and I don't think it would,
but let's imagine that it did. What are they actually going to be restoring and
preserving? You're talking about a shell of a building and a building that didn't
work very well to begin with, and you're talking about it being gutted. So it's not
the same chairs where all the people sat; it's not the same stage, which is probably
rotted through. We're talking about a Hollywood-esque recreation of something
that will look like it was authentic, but it really isn't. I know I'm out of time --
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Fields: -- and I thank you for your time, and I really do hope that you will
listen to the voice of these people here. It's overwhelming on what we need to do.
Thank you very much.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Fernandes.
Marcelo Fernandes: Good morning. Marcelo Fernandes, 3523 North Bay Homes
Drive. I'm the Chair of the Coconut Grove Village Council, and as my day job, a
developer and real estate contractor. And as my other Commission members have
said, we promote the County plan, and passed a resolution thereof. And what -- we
must say that all our members took a really deep dive into this. We met with Mr.
Heisenbottle. We met with Mr. Spring at their office numerous times, and really
studied this. And it came down to a couple things for me. One is, the pro forma put
together by Mr. Heisenbottle was really well done. They analyzed five or six
different regional theaters throughout the country that were successful. And I took
a deep dive. We did a spreadsheet about, you know, the income and expense, to
make sure this doesn't happen again, and we're not here in a few years. And they
have a really well thought-out plan, but it required about an $8 million annual
budget, which some of was endorsed by funding from donations, but majority,
obviously, ramped up to be ticket sales. And ticket sales required over 240 days of
matinees of a thousand people coming into the Grove, in and out. I just didn't think
we have the infrastructure to sustain that kind of traffic volume, number one. So
that was the one reason why I believe it -- you know, if we start also looking back at
other people that are doing this in Miami, they can't sustain that kind of volume.
And secondly, most importantly, if this doesn't pass, what's Plan "B"? If this does
not pass here today, I can tell you the State owns that property and doesn't really
care what happens here in the Grove. So if we don't have a plan backing up Plan
"B," we're not going to have anything done and this thing's going to go on the
selling block, and we're going to see everything gone. So if you don't have this
done going forward, please make a Plan "B" that you guys can fund and direct.
Thank you very much.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Marcelo. Good morning.
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Carlos Malamud: Good morning to you. My name is Carlos Malamud, 1100
Biscayne Boulevard, 3903, Miami, Florida 33132. And I come here to ask you to
please vote for the County's plan. I moved from San Diego. I'm new to Miami.
San Diego, as many of you know, it's an incubator theater city, and I was on the
board and I was on the Executive Committee, and at the same time, I chaired the
Nominating Committee of the Old Globe Theater; one of the most important 16
regional theaters in the United States. It was very hard for us sometimes to fill up
the seats. So again, I urge you to please vote for the County. Thank you so much
for your time.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Good morning.
Jean Blackwell Font: Good morning. My name is Jean Blackwell Font. I live at
6830 Southwest 45 Lane, Miami, Florida 33155. I'm the Director of Programs and
Events for the Arts and Business Council of Miami. We work with over 500 arts
groups in Miami to support sustainable, cultural -- the sustainable, cultural
ecosystem, which generates around $1.4 billion in Dade County through advancing
high -impact partnerships between businesses, entrepreneurs, and the arts. As
Miami's only organization that leverages -- I got a phone call (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Excuse me. As Miami's only organization that leverages the arts for economic
vitality, we support the County's plan as the only viable plan, and we ask that you
do vote in favor today. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Good morning, sir.
Keith Rouse: Keith Rouse, self-employed freelance of film video, with the
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) for 12 years; the Miami Jewish Film Festival, 17 years; and
23 years with live music at Luna Star Cafe, in North Miami. We are not New York,
we are not London, but we are GableStage and we are live theater and we should
support live theater and we need live theater, and why not Coconut Grove? This
was a wonderful theater. We still can retain the outside. I'm in favor of the County
proposal. Please think about it. Keep us alive, will you?
Chair Russell: Thank you, sir. Good morning.
Tony Scornavacca: Good morning. My name is Tony Scornavacca. I was born at
Jackson Memorial Hospital. I grew up in Coconut Grove. My father was an artist
in the first Coconut Grove Arts Festival. My mother was a nurse at Mercy
Hospital. She was on staff when the hospital opened in 1950, as an operating room
nurse. I have deep roots here in the community. This building, Coconut Grove
Playhouse, needs to be restored as closely as possible to its original state. That is
the best thing for the residents of Miami -Dade County and the City of Miami. We
have Freedom Tower on Biscayne Boulevard; we have Vizcaya. That's about it.
For someone to suggest a mixed-use project for the Coconut Grove Playhouse is
beyond me. The building is on the National Register of Historic Places. The
conversation should end there. The building --
(Applause)
Chair Russell: Please.
Mr. Scornavacca: -- should be restored. 700 seats -- when I was a busboy in 1975
at the Taurus, normally, I'd make $10 a night in tips. Theater nights, 30, 40 bucks.
Why? Place was full. It brought vitality to the area, business, and economic
benefit. And keep in mind, we all know there weren't nearly as many affluent
people living in Coconut Grove at that time; it was mostly hippies and artists, like
my dad. So now it will easily sustain a theater of 700 or probably a thousand seats.
We need to save that historic building as closely as possible to its original state.
Thank you.
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Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Good morning.
Allison Hockman: Good morning. My name is Allison Hockman. I live at 2843
South Bayshore Drive. I've been an attorney in this area for over 30 years. I am a
Coconut Grove resident for over 15 years. I am also a member of the Dade
Heritage Preservation, and a board member of GableStage. I just felt it my duty to
urge this Commission, which I thank very much for allowing all of these open
forums, and allowing all sides to be discussed to support the project. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Good morning.
Pauline Winick: Morning. Pauline Winick, Executive Vice President Emeritus of
the Miami Heat. I ask for your support for the previously agreed upon County
proposal. Please affirm the appeal. I have decades of experience in the theater;
been operator of large public spaces as a consumer and as a reviewer of plays and
theaters throughout South Florida. The 300 -seat interior is a good fit for the
theater and the community. 300 seats is the right number. It is respectful of the
Grove's heritage as a place for pedestrians, while maintaining a village
atmosphere. The partnership of the City, the County, and with Florida
International University will return great theater to Coconut Grove. Our students
will be able to learn all aspects of theater arts, including carpentry, lighting,
costuming and sound, and they will then have an opportunity to earn the first
advanced degree in theater offered by FIU. Please affirm the appeal. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Good morning.
Arva Moore -Parks: Hello. My name is Arva Parks. I live at 1240 Southwest 17th
Terrace, and I am a historian and author; been involved in preservation for many,
many years. I may be one of the only people in the room -- or the only person --
that attended the Coconut Grove Theater. To tell you how long ago it was, I saw
"Lassie Comes Home" there, so that was a long time ago. I also was a member of
many of the playhouses -- all of them, I guess -- so that I know the theater very well.
When I went into the theater recently when all of this discussion began again, I was
shocked at how much remained of the original material. I have done a lot of work
on Richard Kiehnel; Kiehnel and Elliott, the most important, really, architect of the
1920s. He also -- they also did the Olympia. And when the Coconut Grove Theater
opened, it was like second only to the Olympia. It was a really, really big deal for
Miami. The miracle of it all is that the interior survived and it's still there, and it
could easily be restored. I'm also a bit concerned today that everybody's talking
about the playhouse or this or that, or the other. What our job is, is to talk about
the building. The Preservation Board deals with buildings, not with use. And you
never know down the road that there may be a use that is very -- that's very
different than what we're thinking of now. I also am very concerned about the
white box. It's totally out of character with the theater. I think we have an
obligation, because it's on the National Register, to follow the Department of
Interior Standards and think about the building, and how important it is to our
community. Thank you very much.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Arva. Good morning.
Abigail Mahoney: Good morning, Honorable Commissioners. Abigail Mahoney,
acting Executive Director with the Coconut Grove Business Improvement District.
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE.)
Ms. Mahoney: Canyon hear me now? Good morning, Honorable Commissioners.
Abigail Mahoney, acting Executive Director with the Coconut Grove Business
Improvement District, located at 3390 Mary Street, in Coconut Grove. The
Historic Coconut Grove Playhouse is located at the gateway entrance of the
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Coconut Grove Business Improvement District's southernmost boundary, and plays
an intrinsic role in the revitalization of Coconut Grove's commercial core. Since
2015, the BID (Business Improvement District) has allocated $3 million to
contribute to the construction of the much needed parking garage associated with
the development of the playhouse. The BID Board passed a resolution stating its
support, because it believes that it is in the best interest of the property owners,
businesses, residents, and patrons of Coconut Grove, and the City that the
playhouse project move forward, as proposed by the County. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Good morning.
Allen Cox: Allen Cox, Dinner Key. I yield my time to Melissa Meyer.
Irene Munroe: Good morning. Irene Munroe, 3164 Mary Street. I yield my time
to Melissa Meyer.
Chair Russell: They have a -- I think they have a little presentation they want to
give, and they're trying to bank some time; is that correct?
Richard Heisenbottle: Mr. Chair, if you'll indulge me for a moment, we need a
little clarification here. There are a whole host of opponents and expert witnesses
that would like to testes against the County's appeal. And the question is, should
they proceed now, as the general public; or should they wait until after the County
has made its presentation?
Chair Russell: Unless they believe they have an intervenor status that they will be
granted through special damage above and beyond the general public, this is the
time to speak. There's no guarantee they'd be granted that. What is before us
today is an appeal of the HEP Board decision of an application of one party. There
actually is no second party to this; even though many residents, advocates and
historians, and architects have gotten together to show there is another vision,
there is not equal footing of time, to put it clearly, in this forum. So as a general
member of the public, everyone has two minutes, but I do want to give the
generosity of saying if you have others who would like to contribute their time to
you, we'll give the additional time so you can --
Mr. Heisenbottle: So expert witness testimony should occur at this time, as well?
Chair Russell: Expert -- only if you are called as an expert witness.
Mr. Heisenbottle: Who's going to call you as an expert witness if --
Chair Russell: Exactly.
Mr. Heisenbottle: -- the other side is not exactly going to call me as an expert
witness.
Chair Russell: There is no other side that is --
Mr. Heisenbottle: The appellants --
Chair Russell: -- he has standing in this forum.
Mr. Heisenbottle: Okay.
Dennis Kerbel: Mr. Chair?
Chair Russell: Just a moment. Who is --?
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Mr. Kerbel: Sorry; over here, Mr. Chair.
Chair Russell: Yes.
Mr. Kerbel: Good morning, and I'm sorry that this is my first introduction to you
on this matter. My name is Dennis Kerbel. I'm an Assistant County Attorney,
representing the applicant, Miami -Dade County. And on this point about experts
and who else can appear, I think, Mr. Chair, you're on the right track. There isn't -
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Kerbel: -- another aggrieved party, we agree with you. The thing that I
wanted to object to most strenuously is the notion that another plan or some other
design is going to be presented to this board. At least the last time I checked --
Chair Russell: There has been no motion made. There's nothing to object at this
point.
Mr. Kerbel: Well, he's got his PowerPoint set up, and I'm entering an objection.
Chair Russell: Which he is allowed to give during his time as a member of the
general public. And I have been clear about this in previous hearings, as well. We
are dealing with one application here, and one appeal of a HEP Board decision of
that application. But you, as a general member of the public, have full right to
show us what you'd like. We're welcome to offer the screen, but we take it as
general public comment, which --
Mr. Kerbel: Okay. I just needed to lodge the objection for the record.
Chair Russell: Understood.
Mr. Kerbel: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chair Russell: Noted. Thank you.
Mr. Heisenbottle: And Mr. County Attorney, just for the record, the presentation
that you're about to see is not Richard Heisenbottle's presentation.
Chair Russell: How many minutes do you need to --
Mr. Heisenbottle: It's not mine.
Chair Russell: -- Mr. Heisenbottle, the -- I believe people were yielding for Ms.
Meyer; is that correct? How many minutes is it you'd like to speak? Five minutes.
And already, two people have offered their time to you, so you have an extra minute
beyond that.
Melissa Meyer: Yeah.
Chair Russell: You're welcome.
Ms. Meyer: It'll be almost six minutes.
Chair Russell: Yes. Are you ready to proceed or--?
Ms. Meyer: We're ready. I'm --
Chair Russell: Who's "we"?
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Marlene Erven: My name is Marlene Erven. I'm a Grove resident, 30 years, 3066
Washington Street, Miami, Florida. I represent -- we're the group of grassroots
residents. We'd like to put on a little PowerPoint and presentation, two minutes
each, to explain our position to you on this issue.
Chair Russell: And that's within the five minutes that Melissa needs; is that
correct?
Ms. Erven: It has nothing to do with Richard Heisenbottle.
Chair Russell: Oh, understood.
Ms. Erven: Okay. I'm sorry.
Chair Russell: He was asking is it --?
Ms. Erven: Our group is lined up on each side behind me.
Chair Russell: I understand. So the two of you --
Ms. Erven: Okay. He just went -- came in to speak ahead of me.
Chair Russell: Right. So you would like -- so you have six minutes; am I correct,
Mr. Clerk; that two people have donated?
Ms. Erven: We have six minutes.
Chair Russell: Melissa Meyer has asked for five, but if two people are --
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE.)
Chair Russell: Okay. Thank you very much.
Ms. Erven: Okay, as part of our presentation, correct.
Chair Russell: Yes.
Ms. Erven: All right. And so, I'd like to introduce John Nordt and give my two
minutes to him to do the first couple slides. Thank you.
Chair Russell: So, wait. Just so we're clear on time, this is an additional donation
of time? That's why I'm asking, what is the total amount of time for this
presentation? Who is donating their time so we know upfront?
John Nordt: It's six minutes.
Chair Russell: Oh, that's within the six minutes. Got it.
Ms. Erven: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) donating two minutes and (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Chair Russell: And is Melissa speaking separately? So you're speaking for six
minutes, Melissa's speaking for six minutes, and that means --
Ms. Erven: No, we were -- sorry. We were instructed that before each speaker, if
we had someone to donate time to (INAUDIBLE).
Chair Russell: Right. What -- I'm trying to get it all, so I don't interrupt you every
two minutes is that four people have now donated their time; two people are
speaking. That gives you the 12 minutes total that you need between the two of you.
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Ms. Meyer: Yes. It's going to be John, then Andy, and then myself.
Mr. Hannon: Chair, we're not getting this for the record. Ma'am, if you could
speak closer, right into the microphone.
Ms. Meyer: John is speaking first, Andy second --
Chair Russell: Are these separate presentations --
Ms. Meyer: Me, third.
Chair Russell: -- or it's all within the same --? Okay. I'm understanding what's
happening here. So this is not his expert testimony. This is a -- these are members
of the public who would like to address this Commission --
Ms. Meyer: Yeah, we --
Chair Russell: -- and the general public, and they've put together a presentation.
Ms. Meyer: So that we won't be repeating ourselves over and over again.
Chair Russell: And I really appreciate that. And the total amount of time needed
for the -- all speakers within this group of the public is how many?
Andy Parrish: 12; six apiece; six here, six there.
Chair Russell: 12 minutes. I believe we've found enough people to donate their
time. Those people will not be speaking, as well, though, today, correct? Thank
you. I really appreciate the organization of this. It's going to make it much better
and efficient, and I definitely want everyone to have their time to be able to say
what they'd like to say. And I apologize for the limitations that we have for
efficiency. So, Mr. Nordt, good morning.
Mr. Nordt: John Nordt, 3580 Royal Palm. I grew up here, fifth generation Miami.
This is an historically significant building. It's on the National Register of Historic
Places. It's the State of Florida (UNINTELLIGIBLE) significant architectural
elements are intact. And a facade is not a separate building. We don't want to
amputate part of it. There's a quick timeline. The voters approved 20 million bond
to restore the Coconut Grove Playhouse. The City's HEP Board designated the
entire exterior in 2005, despite the misquotes that were heard earlier. I'd like to
mention in passing, the St. Stephen's Historic Chapel was demolished in 2012 -- it
was a hundred years old -- through some misunderstanding, shall I say? Then the
County engaged GableStage to manage a 300 -seat theater, reducing the seats by 73
percent. Then the -- 2017, the City -- the HEP Board granted certifications of
appropriateness to the County plan, except for demolition; except for demolition.
And this is something that's been pushed forward with a misnomer. So therefore,
we go to 2017. Two residents appeal the HEP decision. The City Commission
upholds the appeal and made substantial changes to the County plan. The
Appellate Court dismissed the residents, and the County continued application of
an erroneous DR (designation report). 2019, Department of Interior grants CGP
(Coconut Grove Playhouse) designation on National Register of Historic Places,
the entire exterior of the building. The City HEP Board in 2019 disapproves
demolition of any of the exterior, upholding 2017 decision, and upholding the 2005
decision, which is very clear, and anything to the contrary is not true. In 2019, the
playhouse entrance to the Historic Bahamian District has been contemplated.
Thank you very much. This is the actual statement the voters approved $20 million
for in 2004, and I'll read it very slowly. "The General Obligation Bond funds
would complement other funding to reconstruct the Coconut Grove Playhouse,
restore its structural integrity, and add to its performance in educational
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capabilities. " It does not mention "demolition. " And that's what the voters voted
for. And there's a problem here if it goes the other way, against the voters. And the
20 million may still be out there, but thankyou very much.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Who is speaking now? Mr. Parrish.
Andy Parrish: Honorable Commissioners, there's a handout I'm giving to the Clerk
to circulate to all of the Commissioners. My name is Andy Parrish. I live at 3940
Main Highway, in a 1909 restored house in Coconut Grove. I was the Chair of the
HEP Board on October 5, 2005, and the board voted 8 to 0 to designate the entire
exterior; exterior of the playhouse as historic, which I shall prove by reading from
the court reporter transcript of the board meeting, which you've just been handed
for the record. "The County's proposal is based on an erroneous designation
report prepared by the then -board consultant Eleanor Uguccioni," who, at that
public meeting, testified on Page 5 of that transcript that she had made a critical
mistake in the report. That mistake is why we are all here today. The designation
report was never corrected, as it should have been, after the board's decision. And
based on Mr. -- Mrs. -- which was -- in that designation report and based on Mrs.
Guccioni's testimony, that's what the board based its vote. So I'm going to read a
little -- just a short piece from that transcript, on Page 5. This is Eleanor
Uguccioni testing before the board, as the board's outside consultant. She said,
"I also was a bit chagrinned at myself, because at the end of the report, I made the
statement that only the south and east fagades are distinctive, which has led, I
think, to people assuming that I am saying that only in the east/south fagades are
important, and therefore, we don't need to worry about the building envelope itself.
I want to make clear that my intent, why I wrote that -- again, I'm not sure why --
but my intent was certainly to include the entire building in the historic designation
report. " Then on Page 36, Jerry Marston (phonetic), who was also one of the
board -- it was a very, very good board. Tim Barber was on it; Jerry Marston. Mr.
Marston says, "I just need to ask one question: Do we have anybody on this board
who would like to speak as a champion for the notion of designating only the
facades?" And Ms. Solera (phonetic), one of the architects on the board, said,
"no," and others joined in. And then, finally, at the very end of the meeting, my
vote was -- and I prefaced it by saying, "My clear" -- and this is on Page 70 --
"intention is to vote for the complete designation of the structure itself, of all sides
of the structure. " There was some discussion about the parking lot and everything.
We had to include that, because it was part of the folio. So for 14 years, as your
appointees -- your appointees -- the HEP Board has done its duty and voted to save
the entire exterior of the historic and iconic playhouse; just the exterior.
Meanwhile, the County has refused to compromise one inch in its plan to demolish
approximately 90 percent of this structure. And based on the evidence I just read
into the record, it is high time for a compromise; a compromise that restores and
preserves the entire exterior of the Historic Coconut Grove Playhouse. Thank you
very much.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Mr. Parrish. That was six minutes?
Mr. Hannon: Yes, sir; that was the first six minutes.
Chair Russell: Good morning.
Ms. Meyer: Good morning. Hello. My name is Melissa Meyer, 3161 Ohio Street.
I am an AIA (American Institute of Architects) associate, a lead AP in building
design and construction. I have a bachelor's and a master's degree in architecture,
and I have been an architectural designer and Coconut Grove resident for 25
years. As an adjunct professor at Miami Dade College School of Architecture and
Interior Design, I have taught architectural communications, theory of
architecture, architectural materials and construction; and architectural design
studios, in which we utilize our local historic landmarks to inform the design
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process. In 2009, loose rules and intentionally misleading language led to the
unnecessary demolition of St. Stephen's 1912 Chapel that sat just 600 feet from our
nationally -designated historic playhouse. Parishioners and donors confirmed that
loopholes and bad advice on how to obtain approvals for a demolition permit by
intentionally obscuring the intent to demolish in the City's permit application
process left the general public virtually unaware of the pending demolitions. The
entire tragedy was extensively documented in these Miami Herald articles by
Andres Viglucci and Beth Dunlop, in which George Hernandez, Arquitectonica's
preservation architect, identifies and highlights the very gaps in the City
Commission's demolition permit application process that he is helping the County
and Arquitectonica exploit today. It was George's criticism of the City's project
approval and demolition permit application process that led to this 2009 resolution
by Miami -Dade County's own Historic Preservation Board, in which the County
proclaims, and I quote, "Its strong opposition to the unnecessary destruction of
Miami's most historic structures. This resolution vows to support a more ambitious
system of educating our citizenry about the buildings that constitute the cultural,
historic, and architectural legacy of this area, and the rich history associated with
it. " Throughout the application process in which public updates and notices
regarding our historic playhouse, Arquitectonica and the County repeatedly
misused the terms, "rehabilitation, restoration, and preservation, " while
intentionally omitting the word, "demolition. " The City's loose rules and gaps in
the demolition permit application process may have been easy to exploit in 2009,
but today, in 2019, social media is being used to get the truth out; that's why City
Hall is full today. Coconut Grove is not falling for it this time, and Arquitectonica
and the County have suddenly begun updating their project descriptions to include
words like, "tear -down" and "demolition. " Compromised of crushed
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) limestone and a lime -based cement, the concrete block that
was used to build the playhouse in 1926 is larger, denser, and has a greater
compressive strength than the block that is manufactured today. The Dade County
pine floor joist and the roof trusses are as strong as concrete, and they are literally
irreplaceable, because Dade County pine is almost extinct; that's why Coral Gables
Congregational Church, also designed by Kiehnel and Elliott, has lasted 97 years;
that's why El dardin, down the street from the playhouse at Carrollton, also
designed by Kiehnel and Elliot, has lasted 101 years, and that's why a fully -
restored playhouse will last beyond its approaching centennial anniversary -- well
beyond its approaching centennial anniversary -- if you deny this appeal today. I
have reviewed Arquitectonica's plans. The re proposed front fagade, the only
remnant of the original playhouse, which is a single building, not to -- what I find
in their design falls extremely short of the guidelines established by the National
Park Service for Restoration. The reuse of the double proscenium arch Solomonic
columns, fountain, and concrete grills would amount to mere shards, fragments,
bits and pieces that have been torn from their original context, resulting in an
ironic and mournful display of kitsch. The proposed promenade and courtyard
surrounded by retail space that Miami -Dade County is calling "a compromise,"
appears to be a recreation of Cocowalk, which had a design life of less than 25
years, and has already been demolished. Appointed by you, the City Commission,
because they profess the expertise and the special training required to make
informed decisions, the members of the HEP Board have only two mandates: To
promote the preservation of the City's heritage by identifying and designating
properties of major significance, and closely monitoring alterations to them. They
have done their job. The HEP Board did not deny restoration, as stated in the
County's appeal. They denied the demolition of our playhouse that is on the
National Register of Historic Places. For our City Government to function
efficiently and effectively, you must allow the process to work. The Mayor and City
Commission must not undermine those who they, themselves have appointed.
Under your guidance and leadership, the demolished St. Stephen's 1912 Chapel
can be the sacrificial lamb that inspires us to uphold Miami -Dade County's 2009
resolution to oppose the unnecessary demolition of Miami's most historic
landmarks. By denying this appeal, you can say, "No to loose rules and misleading
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language, " and set a new precedent; one that respects the rights of the voters and
taxpayers of Miami -Dade County, and finally sets a good example for the next
generation.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Ms. Meyer: Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
(Applause)
Chair Russell: No, please. Thank you. I appreciate your --
Gloriana Calhoun: My name is Gloriana Calhoun. I'm a Coconut Grove resident.
I live at 3665 Park Lane. And to clary that there's no confusion, I'm going to read
what adjunct professor of architecture, Melissa Meyer -- and she states that,
"There's no confusion about the 2004 voter mandate to use our tax dollars for
complete restoration of our playhouse. There is no confusion about the 8 to 0 vote
at the 2005 Historic and Environmental Preservation Boards to include the
exterior" -- "entire exterior of the playhouse, and to correct the erroneous
designation report. There is no confusion about the unanimous vote by the State
Historic Review Board to nominate our entire playhouse, including the interior, for
the National Register of Historic Places. And there is no confusion about the
recent assertation [sic] by the State of the significant architectural elements within
the historic theater are intact and in very good condition, underneath removable
layers of plywood, drywall, and plaster that were installed during the multiple
renovations over the years; hence, the unanimous vote. There is no confusion
about the precise guidelines for complete restoration that are specifically outlined
by the National Parks Service for the restoration of the buildings that are on the
National Register, such as our Coconut Grove Playhouse. And there is no
confusion about our playhouse being a single building and not two buildings.
There is no confusion about the HEP Board's recent 6 to 4 against demolishing our
playhouse. There is no confusion about the inappropriateness of demolishing our
historic playhouse site, and ignoring the gateway to Miami's first Bahamian
community. There is no conclusion" -- or "no confusion about the State being
responsible for the playhouse property and its intent to preserve this precious
historic cultural resource. There's just no confusion. " Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Maria Freed: Maria Freed. I'm here as a private citizen. I own several residences
in Coconut Grove. My main residence is 3055 Washington Street, Coconut Grove,
Florida 33133. And I'm here to remind you that the County's plan is not
restoration. The County plan violates the Secretary of Historic Guidelines for
Historic Properties. The Dade County plan foregoes $2 million in special category
grants; those simply won't be available. And other local, State, and Federal
historic funds will not be available for construction or into the future. The
demolition, most of it, does alter the designation of this building. I have here that
I'd like to share with the Commissioners a letter from the Florida Department of
State, written by Jason Aldridge, Deputy State Historic Preservation Officer, in
which he highlights some of the deficiencies and some of the outcomes of this
decision. I'd like to share that with you. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. You have copies to pass out?
Nadine Johnson: My name is Nadine Johnson. I live at 2915 Catalina Street, in
Coconut Grove. My friend and neighbor reported to me about a call that he
received from a pollster from Bendixen Amandi International. I was taken aback to
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hear that their poll question, directed to District 2 residents, via phone, regarding
the County proposal, was to, and I quote, "Renovate our Historic Playhouse to be
run by the struggling GableStage Theater Company. " The last I checked,
"renovate" does not mean "demolish. " The poll stated, and I quote, "That the
current playhouse's historic front building will be preserved and restored to its
original 1927 look. " As a patron, sustainer, and supporter of our historic
playhouse, I can tell you that is not and never has been a front building at the
Coconut Grove Playhouse. The playhouse has always been a single monumental
historic landmark, heart and soul of the old Grove Village that put our community
on the map. The poll stated that, and I quote, "The newly restored playhouse will
have administrative offices, dressing rooms, set design, and rehearsal space." The
last time I checked, "newly restored" does not mean "demolish. " The poll went on
to ask, "Do you support or oppose Miami -Dade County's plan to redevelop the
Coconut Grove Playhouse?" Please tell me how you would answer. Were the
County's poll questions well -constructed, clear, and not reading -- leading or
otherwise biased? According to the American Association for Public Opinion
Research Standards for taking polls and accurate and legitimate polls, and I quote,
"Avoids ambigui" -- "all ambiguity, confusion, and vagueness, and targets a
population that the sample is meant to represent. Respondents have a chance to be
selected, and are given accurate time to answer, according to their own research
and informed decision-making. " A social media poll that we posted was conducted
for 30 days prior to the relevant HEP Board meeting. 422 people participated in
this poll. 96 percent of participants favored restoration of our historic playhouse.
Only 3 percent favored demolition of the playhouse.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Max Pearl: Max Pearl, 11850 Southwest 73rd Avenue. I was named-- I was --
County submitted a records request in which I was included. My emails were -- it
was -- I guess I was accused of colluding with the HEP Board, and I would like to
know if I can, as a result of that, be considered an intervenor and be allowed extra
time; being accused of colluding with City officials.
Chair Russell: I believe you can address the situation, but intervenor status is
granted by very specific legal rules; not necessarily that you were mentioned in --
or accused of something. It has to express a specific damage greater than that of
the general public of the application; that the application or the appeal, the
situation at hand is causing greater damage to you than the general public; not
necessarily the accusation made in a --
Mr. Pearl: In that case, may I ask something -- a different question, then? I have
what might arguably be considered the most perfect expert witness. Mr. Zev
Buffman is waiting to hear from the --from all of us on the phone. He's willing to
give his expert testimony. I do not want him to be included in my two minutes. I
don't want to yield my two minutes to him; although he's deserving of it. But I think
being the CEO (Chief Executive Officer) of the playhouse in the '60s and 70s -- you
would -- we wouldn't be here today if it weren't for Zev Buffman and what -- he
made the history happen there, and I think to hear from him is -- it's a waste of
time, perhaps --
Chair Russell: What's a waste of time?
Mr. Pearl: It would -- well, it would be counterproductive not to hear from him.
Chair Russell: Not to hear from him; I understand. He's very welcome to address,
and if we can technologically do it, I'm open to that.
Mr. Pearl: Well, I did it at the HEP Board hearing, and we heard him perfectly by
putting the phone up to the --
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Chair Russell: That's fine. And --that's absolutely fine.
Mr. Pearl: And then following his --
Chair Russell: And he's not as an expert witness, he's -- because nobody's calling
him as an expert witness.
Mr. Pearl: I understand.
Chair Russell: This is as a general member of the public. Are we okay taking this
on record in that way, Mr. Clerk? I know they did that at the HEP Board meeting.
Mr. Hannon: I'll defer to the City Attorney, but we would need to administer the
oath. And can we verb the person's identity speaking by phone? Normally, we
have the testimony done in person, or someone reads the testimony on their behalf.
John Greco (Deputy City Attorney): This is public comment. If the -- it's within the
discretion of the Chair to allow, you know, this individual to basically speak at
public comment. We can facilitate it, you know, with regard to having someone
appear by phone and be given an oath.
Chair Russell: I'm open to it. But you're yielding your time to him, so we expect to
hear from him for four minutes; is that correct?
Mr. Pearl: No. With all due respect to the Commission, I'd like to not yield my two
minutes to him; although he's worthy.
Commissioner Hardemon: Not any of it?
Chair Russell: I understand now what you're saying.
Mr. Pearl: It would be as if he were here in person; instead, he's on the phone.
And following him, I would give my two minutes if that's okay with the Chair.
Chair Russell: That's absolutely fine with me.
Mr. Pearl: Thank you, sir.
Chair Russell: And so, you need to swear him in over the phone. Okay, is Mr.
Buffman on the phone?
Mr. Pearl: Before I begin, I need to pass out some papers to you.
Chair Russell: Give them to the Clerk, please, and he'll pass them out; to the
Clerk.
Commissioner Hardemon: Mr. Clerk, the swearing in that you do is not for public
comment; it's for those who will be speaking on the item, so it's for testimony.
Mr. Hannon: In a quasi-judicial setting.
Commissioner Hardemon: Right, but not for public comment.
Mr. Hannon: Yes, for public comment.
Commissioner Hardemon: You do --
Commissioner Hardemon: They're putting oath -- they're testifying under oath as
to what they are saying as being true and correct.
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Commissioner Hardemon: But my question is, those who are coming for public
comment are not necessarily testifying; although they're speaking on the issue,
they're not testing. I know we take everyone at the same time. We just have
everyone stand, which is a general thing, but as I understood, public comment is
not necessary to --
Chair Russell: Swear in?
Commissioner Hardemon: --for them to be sworn in.
Mr. Hannon: I'll defer to the City Attorney.
Commissioner Hardemon: Right.
Mr. Greco: To the extent that a person speaking at public comment was giving
fact -based testimony that could be considered as competent substantial evidence, it
would need to be sworn. So as I understand it, the swearing in is to -- covers at the
beginning, covers all the people speaking, whether or not it's during the evidentiary
portion or as public comment.
Chair Russell: So we'll do this en masse. If there's anyone who's come into the
building at this point who hasn't spoken yet but hasn't -- wasn't here when we swore
in the original group, we can include you at this point, as well; correct, Mr. Clerk?
Mr. Hannon: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. If you have not had the oath
administered, may I please have you stand and raise your right hand, if you have
not had the oath administered?
The City Clerk administered oath required under City Code Section 62-1 to those
persons giving testimony.
Mr. Hannon: Thank you, Chair.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Good morning, Mr. Buffman. Are you on
the line?
Mr. Pearl: Zev? Are you there, Mr. Buffman?
Zev Buffman (via telephone): Yes, I am.
Chair Russell: Can the Clerk pick that up? You're good? All right. Mr. Buffman,
good morning. You have two minutes to address the dais and the public. Thank
you.
Mr. Pearl: Zev?
Mr. Buffman (via telephone): Yes.
Mr. Pearl: You can begin your comments. You have two minutes. The
Commissioners are here.
Mr. Buffman (via telephone): Okay, very good. Okay. Thank you for listening to
what I have to say. Coconut Grove Playhouse is really very much apart of my life,
as some of you or many --all of you know. I owned it in Miami for 37 years after it
was bankrupt and shuttered, and formed a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) when it used to be
a theater to give it 1,200 seats to make it (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to operate and not
rely constantly on grants from various organizations. The key point I want to make
in my two minutes is that the size theater --
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Mr. Pearl: Hello, Zev? Are you there? Zev, are you there? Mr. Buffman?
Chair Russell: Hold the time for him.
Mr. Buffman: Hi.
Mr. Pearl: Okay, he's there. Continue, please.
Mr. Buffman (via telephone): Okay. Yeah, to continue, there are a number of
theaters that were forgotten and left to die, such as the Capital Theater in
Clearwater, which is now a hundred years old. l personally (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
restored it to a size that is 750 seats, and it is doing 150 performances, 150 paid
performances per year, steadily, for the last four years since the job was completed.
The Parker Playhouse in Fort Lauderdale, same size as (INAUDIBLE) --
Mr. Pearl: It's gone out. Zev?
Mr. Buffman: Yeah.
Mr. Pearl: Go ahead, continue.
Mr. Buffman (via telephone): The Parker Playhouse in Fort Lauderdale was left to
die, and then recently, in the last two years, three years, has gone back to
performing concerts and other very, very profitable events, and is now doing over
100 events --
Mr. Pearl: Looks like the call dropped. He's hitting the facetime bags.
Chair Russell: All right. The two minutes are up, so.
Mr. Pearl: Okay.
Chair Russell: But I think we get the gist of what he's saying.
Mr. Pearl: I think you got the gist of it. He gave the testimony; it's on record with
the previous HEP Board, March 5 hearing. If you want to read, you can check the
record regarding his testimony at that time. If I may proceed with my own
comments?
Chair Russell: Yes, please.
Mr. Pearl: I'd like to have the clock -- okay. I'd like to start off with a quote from
Walt Whitman, a famous poet from the 19th Century. This is a quote from Mr.
Whitman: "Of the empty and useless years of the rest" -- "with the rest me
intertwined, the question, oh, me, so sad, recurring, what good amid these, oh me,
oh life? Answer: That you are here, that life exists, an identity; that the powerful
plague goes on, and you may contribute a verse." Messrs. Commissioners, what
will be your verse that you will contribute to history today? How will history
remember you, all of us, what decisions are made today? More accurately, will
history even be remembered? Before I begin the other comments, I want to talk
about -- make two points. The insensitivity that Arquitecton -- the County is
claiming about the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) modifications over the years that rendered
the building undeserving of being saved, my question is, if those insensitivities were
so terrible, then what about the insensitivity of demolishing the majority of the
playhouse? The history was not made in the facade; it was made in the auditorium.
So we're going to con -- they're going to ask to continue these insensitive
modifications of the theater in what would be the ultimate of modifications. Will we
be as passionate if a demolition is sought of the 300 -seat plan in 30 years from
now, 50 years from now? Will we --? That's the question you need to ask. Will we
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be this passionate? Will we all be packing this City Hall if they ever decide 50
years from now to demolish the Grove Stage -- whatever they want to call it -- that
theater? 21 of the last 23 years that the playhouse existed before it closed, it was
responsible for 40 percent of the economic impact on the overall Grove economy.
150,000 people attended annually. These are in the County records; I don't make
these numbers up. You can verify them with the County economic records for the
playhouse. The County claims that retail, garage will support the theater, but what
will support the retail? What will -- we've got boarded retail all over Coconut
Grove. What if the retail fails? Then what will you be stuck with? An
unsustainable 300 -seat theater, as Mr. Buffman testifies, as Mr. Howard Rog --
who was a Howard -- Broadway producer who is here, is about to testify? Vic
Myrick of the Asolo Theater makes the following claims: He said his background --
I'm reading his letter -- "My background for almost 60 years has been on the
operations and production of live theater. I have written architectural programs
for new and remodeled theater spaces. I have actually toured several production of
the Asolo Reparatory Theater to the Grove Playhouse back in the '70s and '80s. I
speak to you about my experience as an operations manager about the size of the
County's proposed theater space. Theaters with less than 300 seats are usually
successful when connected to some kind of subsidized larger organization. I have
read a little of the current history of the City's attempt to -- the County's attempt to
do something with the old playhouse. I will give you my perspective. One paid
consultant has told you that a 300 -seat theater would be less expensive to operate.
I believe you will find that it takes about the same number of permanent staff to
manage a 300 -seat theater as it does a 900 -seat theater. You need an artist --
artistic director, a manager, managing director, a finance officer, box office and
operations manager, to name a few. Yes, air conditioning, heating, ventilation will
be higher; and yes, you will have to fill seats. But 300 seats will forever limit your
income potential. Your only choice to increase income after the 300 seats are filled
will be to raise prices and cut expenses; a sure way to put yourself out of business.
The Asolo Theater started out as a 360 -seat theater, 60 years ago. Within 20 years,
we could no longer sustain our operation, and we built a 500 -seat theater. This
year, we will add 30 seats, raising a potential half a million dollars in ticket sales. "
Chair Russell: Thank you, Mr. Pearl.
Mr. Pearl: Thank you.
Chair Russell: Next speaker.
Jennifer Howard Zub: Okay. Hold on. My name -- good morning -- is Jennifer
Howard, and I'm a licensed interior architect with a master's in architecture. We,
the people, are here today to open the door of the Trojan horse that is rolling into
our neighborhood, posing as a restoration and small theater project. If it wasn't
for the bold black letters up there that remind you it's a playhouse, this would be a
mall. Okay. This is a picture of the fagade. You need to see up close the handling
of the restoration, the missing pediments, the random medallion, the tacky white
awnings; no thought, whatsoever, in the treatment of historic detail. This is not a
firm who handles historic preservation. This is what a real historic preservation
architect would do. This is what real restoration looks like. This is a building
worthy to greet its visitors at the Historic Charles Avenue and Main Avenue
Highways; a building to bridge cultures, not behead them. Their beheaded
building and sloppy details will never be remembered. This is the Eidson-
Heisenbottle plan. The Eidson-Heisenbottle plan has a 700 -seat theater, plus a
200 -seat black box theater. They have approximately 8,500 square feet of
supporting shops, et cetera, and storage. The County's plan has only a 300 -seat
black box theater, with approximately 13,000 square feet of miscellaneous
supporting spaces. You tell me what's going on here. For all the angry residents
here to support the County, tell me, when was the last time a mall increased your
property value? Look at the details here. These walls made of metal cages, filled
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with rubble, probably from the demolished playhouse; the dark alley leading to the
West Grove. Is this the welcoming arm? Friends, there is another plan, a
thoughtful plan, the Eidson-Heisenbottle plan. And we offer the GableStage, a real
venue; not using them as a pawn to build a mall. Commissioners, you cannot keep
purveying the Grove as an extraordinary place to be when you keep erasing all
there is worth being. Your signatures will be indelibly written in history for the
demolition of this building.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Ms. Zub: Notre Dame burned down, they are rebuilding it, and so can we. Thank
you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
(Applause)
Chair Russell: No applause, please. Thank you. Next speaker.
Steve Massey: Hi. My name is Steve Massey, a Miami native. I live in the Avatar,
across from the playhouse. I'm hereto summarize our group's presentation. Just
coincidentally, I acted in the old playhouse, in the regional production of Child's
Play when I was in high school. I will say that it was two weeks and it was packed,
and they're great memories. And the playhouse, just personally, for me, is part of
my lifelong Miami and Coconut Grove experience. To sum up our positions, only
the restoration of the entire building satisfies the voter mandate that was passed in
the bond issue. The bond issue stated the Coconut Grove Playhouse was to be
restored in its structural integrity, and add to the performance and educational
capabilities. Just leaving a faqade does not satisfy what the voters voted for; it's
really clear. Okay? So we think that there'll be potentially loss of money by not
satisfying the State requirements on historic preservation. There's been testimony
here that the building is structurally sound, just like the other buildings that were
built at the same time, with the same structural elements. The erroneous DR must
be corrected to reflect the actual HEP vote that was to restore the entire exterior of
the playhouse. And another note: If you look at what happened to South Beach,
historic preservation and economic development go hand in hand; not a faqade as
an excuse to build another mall. That's not what Coconut Grove needs. We need to
bridge the cultural gap between the East and the West Grove. And we think the
restoration of the entire playhouse is the first step to do this. Congressman [sic]
Wilson has said she sees a plan to integrate the multicultural aspects of the East
and West Grove as essential to creating a unique new cultural experience. We --
you can now create something unique in the United States by restoring the
playhouse, by not doing the old flim flam that we're -- we've seen in the past. We
can't bring back the old chapel, we can't bring back Jimmy Buffet's Coconut Grove
Drugstore, but we can restore the playhouse.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Massey: We can do this, and we can make something really unique. We can
be an inviting thing to the West Grove and the East Grove, and we can -- it's our
job -- it's your job as the City. Your interests and our interests are not necessarily
aligned with the County; that's why the City exists; that's why you guys exist here.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Mr. Massey.
Mr. Massey: So I urge you to approve the HEP Board designation, and let's
restore the entire theater. Thankyou.
Chair Russell: Thank you. So if I could just break for a moment. We are at noon
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right now, where the Commission traditionally breaks for lunch. I would like to
know about how many public speakers we have left so that we can make a decision
on how to proceed. We have a lot more left, yeah.
Unidentified Speaker: We have one more slide.
Chair Russell: Okay, yeah, I understand that. But I just -- we have a choice as a
Commission to break now -- they have one more slide, one more speaker -- and
then come back at 2 o'clock, reconvene public comment, and then take up the
appellant's argument, and complete the hearing. I don't --
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE.)
Chair Russell: And I apologize, and that's why I've been trying to move everyone
so quickly, as rude as it seems, to have efficiency. But what's the will of this
Commission?
Commissioner Carollo: We need a break. We can never expect
(UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Chair Russell: All right. We're going to break for lunch right after listening to one
more speaker, so they can finish their presentation as a group. And what time you
guys want to come back? 2?
Commissioner Carollo: It's after 12. 2:30.
Chair Russell: 2:30?
Commissioner Carollo: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
Chair Russell: That gives us a two-hour lunch, right?
Commissioner Carollo: Approximately.
Chair Russell: We have work to do, as well.
Unidentified Speaker: (UNINTELLIGIBLE.)
Chair Russell: I understand, but that's -- we always reconvene at 2 o'clock on
Commission to complete the meeting. So what we'll do is we'll allow the final
speaker of this group, then we'll break for lunch. We'll convene at 2, complete all
the public speakers, because there -- it seems as there will be well over an hour
more ofpublic comment, and then we'll go into the appellant's case.
Malikah Zeraus: In conclusion, in reference to this forum, I'm going to cite what
Melissa Meyer has quoted. "Making the entire playhouse even more significant is
the fact that it is a theater, a building topology that, by default, encompasses the
evolution of Miami's social, cultural, and fashion scene. It is the quintessential
Zeitgeist of Coconut Grove." If you destroy that, you destroy the very soul -- did
you hear that? -- soul -- okay? -- of the Grove. If you destroy it and try to reinvent
it, by demolishing it, you will fail, because it's impossible to reinvent something that
took nearly a century to evolve. Thank you very much.
Chair Russell: Thank you for your comment.
Mr. Hannon: Chair, I'm sorry. Ma'am, if I could just get your name for the record,
on the microphone?
Ms. Zeraus: My name is Malikah Zeraus. Do you need my address?
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Chair Russell: No.
Mr. Hannon: No, thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. I apologize for those of you who we haven't
gotten to so far. We will reconvene public comment at 2 p.m.
Commissioner Hardemon: Mr. Chairman?
Chair Russell: Yes, Commissioner Hardemon.
Commissioner Hardemon: Is there any way we can allow the young lady who has
the doctor's appointment to speak for her two minutes?
Chair Russell: If there's any will of this Commission, I'm glad to oblige.
Commissioner Hardemon: All right.
Chair Russell: It's --
Commissioner Hardemon: Just the doctor's appointment. I understand, because
my Chief of Staff always goes to doctor's appointments, and I'm happy to have him
here, so just in case you don't make it back.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Commissioner Hardemon.
Joanne Bander: I appreciate it. I'll be very quick. I'm Joanne Bander, 500
Alhambra Circle, Coral Gables, Florida. I was a board member for many years of
GableStage. I was Kay Sorenson's first appointment to the Miami -Dade County
Historic Preservation Board. I sat for 10 years, more or less, including the whole
battle over the Sears Tower. I come here with a different voice. I come with a
voice of theater and the realities. I'm not here to address the physical presence.
I'm a great fan of the Coconut Grove Theater. I was there regularly from the time
we moved to Miami in 1973 until it was destroyed. But it was not functional when
the hurricane took it down. It was economically a disaster. It could not continue.
There's a reality about the economics of theater in Miami -Dade County that has to
do with how many seats a theater can have and make it, including with a strong
board, and good civic participation and donations, and do the kind of interesting,
quality, gutsy theater that we need. The Arsht does fine on road shows, bringing
Broadway road shows. We need a theater that is constructed and dedicated to the
kind of theater that has many of us skipping here and going to New York; the kind
that brings Tony Awards; the kind of really exciting, dynamic, contemporary
theater. A small theater is what is called for; the number of seats that was very
carefully considered from an economic viability. No one else has addressed that.
Thank you very much.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. We are in recess until 2 p.m. Thank you
very much.
Later...
Chair Russell: So the oath has been administered. Everyone here who'd like to
speak, please approach. And if you could separate to both lecterns, we'll be more
efficient. Each of you has two minutes to speak. If anyone would like to donate
their time to someone else, just before that person speaks, just raise your hand so
we know, but that'll preclude you from speaking, and you can offer your two
minutes to somebody. Let us know your name. You don't have to let us know your
address. It's helpful if you let us know your position on the issue, so sometimes it's
hard to parse that sometimes within somebody's comments, but you're very
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welcome to speak your mind. So please use both lecterns, and I've only got one
person to speak over here. If there are others who would like to speak, please line
up, and you're very welcome, sir. Good afternoon.
Bruce Leslie: Thank you. Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to speak
with you. My name is Bruce Leslie. I am the Executive Director of City Theater,
and I was the General Manager of Coconut Grove Playhouse in the late '90s. I was
there when the building started failing, which led to the path we are now on. I was
there when a chunk of concrete fell off of the ceiling during a performance in our
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) Room Theater. I was there when the engineers told us that
the Charles Avenue side of the building was structurally compromised and that we
needed immediate shoring to prevent collapse. I think we can all agree that the
building needs major work. Theater is a business. Most often, you'll hear about
the art and people's experiences, but it is a business. It has employees, vendors,
bills to pay, bank accounts, and everything else a normal business has, except
perhaps profits. So rather than talk about the building, I'd like to give you a peek
behind the curtain regarding the business at Coconut Grove Playhouse, to
hopefully assist you with your deliberations. I arrived at the playhouse in 1994.
During the fiscal year ending 1993, the year before I arrived, the playhouse lost
$270,000. In 1994, the year I arrived, it lost $160,000. In 1995, we lost $300,000;
in 1996, another $200,000. Finally, in 1997, we generated a surplus. Yet, during
this time, we had some of our best known productions: Don't Stop the Carnival, the
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) Avenue Triangle, Presenting Mr. Green, and the Late Show
with David Letterman; although technically, that was a rental. Our business model
was to bring in stars, people with general name recognition; people like Hal
Holbrook, Eli Wallach, Bea Arthur, Jack Klugman, Tony Randall, Jimmy Buffet.
But we also participated in co productions. This is where two or more theaters
pool resources to mount a production, and then the shows are performed in each of
the theaters. One down side of this model was that we didn't hire enough local
talent. We often brought directors, designers, and actors from out of town. Wholly,
this business model was not sustainable. The playhouse closed in 2006 with $4
million in debt. At that time, Lucy Arnaz, a star, was to perform in Sonia Flew,
playing at Coconut Grove Playhouse, followed by Parker Playhouse in Fort
Lauderdale, in co production.
Chair Russell: Thank you. The two minutes are surpassed.
Mr. Leslie: Really?
Chair Russell: If you want to just wrap --
Mr. Leslie: Oh, okay. So --
Chair Russell: Time flies.
Mr. Leslie: -- I encourage you to support the County's plan, because I think it's
well thought, and they considered both artistic and business aspects when
developing the plan. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Sorry to cut you off.
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE.)
Chair Russell: I'm sorry? You'd like to donate your two minutes to--? If you all
could let me know that beforehand, it's very helpful. Sir, if you wanted to finish up,
that's fine. I apologize.
Mr. Hannon: Could I get the person's name who's donating their two minutes?
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Chair Russell: Did you hear that? Rosalyn Stuzin. Please go ahead.
Mr. Leslie: Thank you. So the playhouse closed in 2006. Also, in 2006, the
Adrienne Arsht Center opened. And in 2011, the South Miami -Dade Cultural Arts
Center opened. These new facilities and their programming have put additional
pressure on a business model like we ran. For example, today's the opening of The
Lion King, at the Arsht. National tours are more economical than even the co -
productions that we would do. So in conclusion, I hope you will remain committed
to keeping theater at the playhouse. I also urge you to support the plan put
together by GableStage, Miami -Dade County, and FIU. This plan has been well
developed, considering both artistic and business needs in its formulation. This
plan will also provide another benefit of supporting the local theater industry.
Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Hello.
Genessa Goldsmith Proctor: Hello. My name is Genessa Goldsmith Proctor, and I
would like to cede my time to Stephen Neal. I would hope that --
Unidentified Speaker: Couldn't hear you.
Ms. Proctor: I would like to cede my time to Stephen Neal, and I would hope that
the board would vote in favor of what I believe is a compromise.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Stephen Neal: Hello. My name is Stephen Neal, 501 Northeast 107th Street. I
hold a master of fine arts degree in stage directing from FSU (Florida State
University). I'm a proud member of Actors Equity Association, Screen Actors
Guild, and the Theater faculty at FIU. My wife and I made South Florida our home
in 1984 for three primary reasons: I found work as an actor in the Florida
Shakespeare Festival; there was an abundance of professional theater, film, and
television work available; and I harbored a hope that someday, I would be an actor
in the company of the world-famous Coconut Grove Playhouse. Although that
didn't happen yet, I did pay some dues by working in the playhouse for a few years,
in a variety of backstage capacities. I urge you to allow this plan to move into the
construction phase so we can bring our flagship regional theater back to life.
Please take a moment to consider why the playhouse earned its international
reputation in the first place. One, Coconut Grove is an ideal location; two, the
theater is instantly recognizable because of the iconic wing -shaped facade that is
an asset; three -- this is where I want you to think literally outside the box -- while
a theater building is an important asset, a theater building without a company to
create magic in it is exactly what the playhouse has been for the past 13 years, a
useless and derelict skeleton. Producing theater companies are the beating hearts
and lifeblood of theater. To be successful, the theater building, the company's
mission, and the business plan need to be a good fit; that's where the playhouse
failed, as you just heard just now. The stage house and auditorium became too big,
and at the same time, too small to serve its original mission of bringing Broadway
to the Grove, and ofpaying the bills. The Arsht Center has taken that mission over
anyway, so the mission and the building for the new playhouse must be downsized.
GableStage can trace its roots back to the Shakespeare Festival, performing on the
magnificent grounds of Vizcaya. That company persevered through many
downsizing changes to become eventually GableStage. They brought in Joe Adler
and started staging award-winning, cutting edge, bill paying theater. Now we have
a chance to merge this resilient and nationally -recognized company with the most
valuable asset --the historical assets of the playhouse. I can tell you from my many
experiences backstage that they are not to be found in the cement, the plaster, and
the wood of the playhouse stage house. They can be found in its rich production
history; the work of thousands of men and women who created 50 years of
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unforgettable productions for South Florida audiences. That had very little to do
with the building, but everything to do with what theater really is; that's why the
playhouse is so important. If Joe Adler could work magic within the severe
limitations of that converged -- converted hotel room, meeting room, just imagine
what great theater he can create in a building that is designed and constructed
specifically to serve his mission. This exquisitely detailed plan is grounded in
common sense, vividly imaginative, culturally sensitive, and financially feasible. It
restores and reveres the most significant and recognizable architectural elements
of Kiehnel and Elliott, and brings the beating heart of live, world-class theater back
to the Grove. Please don't let this plan of 13 years and over a million dollars in the
making be destroyed. I urge you to let us make it a reality by 2022, so we can have
a partnership with FIU, and produce the first master's degree program. Thank you
very much.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Hello.
Joanne Kacin: My name is Joanne Kacin. I live directly across from the playhouse
in Camp Biscayne. I wish to yield my time to Sally Stern.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Sally Stern: Thank you. Just as a rebuttal to the last two speakers --
Chair Russell: You need to move the microphone to your face, please.
Ms. Stern: Oh, I'm sorry. As a --
Chair Russell: Yeah, you don't need to hold it; just --
Ms. Stern: As a rebuttal to the last two speakers, we're here for preservation, not
for business plans. We're talking about history. Honorable Commissioners, I'm
standing before you today to ask you to uphold the ruling of your self-appointed
Historic and Preservation Board to save the Coconut Grove Playhouse from
demolition; preserve all of the building, inside and out; and preserve our
architectural history for our City, our State, our citizens, and for posterity. You
can make a difference today and do the right thing. Please uphold the ruling of the
HEP Board and vote for preservation, and against demolition. Please remember
the voters, your constituents voted for a 20 -million -dollar bond issue to, quote,
"reconstruct and restore the Coconut Grove Playhouse." Nowhere in the bond
issue does it say that these funds are discretionary. The bond issue is the voters'
way of telling their government how and where they want their money spent. I'm
asking -- no -- I'm imploring you to fulfill the voters' wishes and the will of the
people to preserve Coconut Grove Playhouse according to the preservation plan,
and fulfill your duty to your voters and the letter of the law. As representatives of
the people, you will maintain their trust and respect by following their wishes.
There is a correlation between the salvation of Coconut Grove Playhouse and
Grand Central Station, which was a cause celeb for Jackie Kennedy. Both
buildings were designated historic by the State, and both had the City Government
try to overturn the ruling. Fortunately, the City of New York lost in a Supreme
Court case in 1978, Penn Central Transportation Company v. New York City,
Number 77-444, which states, "An historic designation by the State cannot be
overturned by a City Government." This law still stands. When Jackie Kennedy
took up the cause for the Grand Central Station, she said during its struggle, quote,
"If we don't care about our past, we can't have very much hope for the future."
We've all heard that it's too late, it has to happen, but I don't think that that's -- it's
inevitable -- but that's not true. I think that if there's a great effort, even in the
eleventh hour, then you can succeed, and I know we can. We didn't vote for
another failing shopping center, restaurants, expensive condos, or offices, as in the
current Arquitectonica plan, which is not a preservation plan. We want a fully
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restored theater, fact; tourist restaurant, demolished. Now new restaurants have
failed, one after another. Currently, it's an ugly eyesore; Cocowalk, out of
business, demolished; Mayfair failed, mostly empty; Commodore Plaza, failed. The
2019 retail facts, these giants are downsizing or out of business -- going out of
business: Macy's, Henry Bendel's, Lord and Taylor, Zales, Kays, Jared's Jewelry,
Starbuck, J. Crew, J.C. Penney, Kohl's, Gap, Victoria Secret, Sears, to name a few.
This government body can choose to follow the will of the people and not
misappropriate government funds and preserve the gem of our City, the Coconut
Grove Playhouse, and refuse to be part of another failed plan that would summon
the death now of Coconut Grove. In conclusion, imagine Miami Beach, without
deco; the grand canals in Venice, without mansions; New York City, without
historic theaters lining Broadway; and Coconut Grove, without the original
Coconut Grove Playhouse. And I want to finish with a quote from Jackie Kennedy:
"Isn't it cruel to let our City die by degrees, stripped of all its proud moments until
there's nothing left of her history and beauty to inspire our children?" Thank you.
Please save Coconut Grove Playhouse --
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Ms. Stern: -- our history, and vote against demolition. Thank you very much.
Chair Russell: Thank you for your comments. Is there really only two more people
here to speak? Anyone who'd like to speak, please approach both lecterns and be
ready to speak, one after the other; that way, we'll get through a little more
efficiently. Please go ahead.
Miguel Abadia: Good afternoon. My name is Miguel Angel Abadia. Mayor
Gimenez [sic], Chairperson Russell, Commissioners, ladies and gentlemen, we
heard many times the term that Miami and South Florida is a melting pot. Well,
that's very true. It is a melting pot of different cultures. Just alone in this room, if
you look around, you see people from so many places. As I look at you, the
Commissioners, I see one, two, three Hispanic descent; Anglo; Afro American.
Chair Russell: Japanese.
Mr. Abadia: Ilium?
Unidentified Speaker: Japanese.
Mr. Abadia: Oh, sorry. Well, moreover, Japanese.
Commissioner Hardemon: I'm Negro.
(Applause)
Chair Russell: I was the Japanese.
Commissioner Hardemon: I know. I was surprised, too, but I learned it later on in
life.
Mr. Abadia: Two minutes have gone now?
Chair Russell: Wait, wait, we'll give you a few extra seconds there.
Mr. Abadia: Okay.
Chair Russell: That was our fault. Sorry.
Mr. Abadia: You must be asking, "What is the point?" Well, the point is that the
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County's plan does not and will not work. With all your due respect, Mayor
Gimenez, the County's plan is a selfish plan with no inclusion, no multilingual, nor
multicultural concept. It does not ung cultures. And most of all, it is not
restoration. It's demolition, it is destruction, anything but theater. Retail, garage,
restaurants, condo, a breezeway; oh, yes, and a 300 -seat theater, just because the
contract with the State requires it. Well, that is not the legacy of the Coconut
Grove Playhouse. You know, as an actor, a producer, a Spanish TV (television)
host, an artistic director for the past 45 years, and having worked at the Coconut
Grove Playhouse with the marvelous Jose Ferrer, I can assure you that there is an
alternative plan, a feasible plan, with a magnificent concept, and that would be the
Coconut Grove Foundation, the Eidson-Heisenbottle Center for the Arts --
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Abadia: -- a full cultural experience, making it once again, our beloved
Coconut Grove Playhouse, a true and magnificent cultural center, good for all of
us --
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Mr. Abadia: -- and not just a few.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Abadia: Thank you, sir.
Chair Russell: Thank you for your comments.
Mr. Abadia: Thank you.
Chair Russell: Hello.
Clark Nobil: Hello. Good afternoon, members of the Commission, and to the
ladies and gentlemen present here. My name is Clark Nobil. I'm a lifelong resident
of Dade County. For over 15 years, before it closed, my wife and I were front -row -
seat season ticket holders on the first Sunday matinee of each play at the original
Coconut Grove Playhouse. Each time there was a play, we'd come to the Grove,
watch the play, eat dinner at a nearby restaurant, window-shop along the way, and
end up buying something at one or more stores. We'd repeat this activity over a
half dozen times a year. All that fun ended when the playhouse folded, and so did
our extra spending in Coconut Grove. Frankly, I'd like to see that change sooner
rather than later, and I'm sure Coconut Grove merchants would also agree with
me. However, after all the heated rhetoric and divisiveness of the last four years,
it's now time for the City of Miami Commission to start a much-needed healing
process, and even more importantly, to preserve the existing bond ratings with
Moody's and Standard & Poor's. A unanimous vote by this Commission in support
of the existing County plan would send a clear message to buyers of current and
future City of Miami municipal bonds. The clear, unmistakable message would be
that the City of Miami, along with Dade County and the State of Florida, can be a
reliable, progressive partner in a rare and distinctive multiple-public-nonprofit-
private-partnership
ultiplepublic-nonprofit-
privatepartnership project. Would Moody's or Standard and Poor's upgrade their
ratings on Miami City bonds immediately following the Commission's unanimous
approval of the County plan? Perhaps not, but we can all be 100 percent certain
that bond investors would be much happier to see if this passes unanimously rather
than split across partisan lines. So in your final deliberations before your vote, I
would urge each Commission member to consider one thing: The sooner this new
playhouse and adjacent stores open, the sooner Coconut Grove's downtown
revitalization will be boosted; it's that simple. So, please, let's not delay this
important project any longer. Vote unanimously to move it forward. Let's
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demonstrate how united the City of Miami can be on this vital project.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Nobil: I thank everyone here for their time.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Hello.
Colleen Stovall: Hi. My name's Colleen Stovall and I lived in Coconut Grove for
over 30 years, and I have spoken to many people about the issue of restoration of
the Coconut Grove Playhouse. Some people say it's impossible, unaffordable;
there's too much mold, too much damage, and it's just impossible. I'm sorry, I don't
believe it. My neighbors and I don't believe it. And the neighbors who spurred the
development of the following lovingly restored historic theaters across our country
don't believe it, either. Some of these theaters have sat empty for over 40 years;
some are large; some are small; some cost a very small amount to restore; some
cost, you know, millions and millions of dollars. This is the list, a very short list:
The Ambler Borough, the Collingswood, the Colonial, the County, the Ohio
Theater; the Fox Theater, Atlanta; the Fox Theater, Toussaint; the Fox Theater,
Visalia, California; the Starlight; the Goodspeed; the Capital; the State Theater;
the King's Theater; the Silver Theater; the Uptown Theater; the Hanover Theater;
the Colony Theater; the Palace, the Princess; and the Gem Theater; the Comet, the
Grand, and the Orpheum Theater; the Cozy Theater; the Flame Theater; the Canby
Theater, all 11 in Minnesota; the Heights Theater; the Lansdowne Theater; the St.
George; Emerson Colonial; the Ace Hotel Theater; the Embassy; the Alameda, and
the Norfolk. I could go on, but I just wanted to remind you that it's not impossible.
It's all about will; political will, and the will of the neighbors. Thank you very
much.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Bruce Turkel: Good afternoon. Hi. My name is Bruce Turkel. My office was in
the Grove for over 30 years. And believe it or not, I'm not here to talk to you about
a theater, or architecture, or historic preservation. There's too many experts here
for me to do that. I'm here to talk to you about what I know about, which is all of
you, because what I do is build brands. I build brands for the City of Miami; I
build brands for Miami Beach; I build brands for Bacardi, for Discovery Channel,
and lots more. And what I know is that what happens today is going to impact your
brands, your legacies. This is what people are going to remember about you when
you go out in the public and try to accomplish things -- and let's face it -- when you
try to be re-elected. Now, it's important to know that the public's memory is not
very long, and it's not even that good. You could argue that people couldn't name
the five people on this Commission; six people, with the Mayor. They can't tell
between the Mayor Suarez and the Commissioner Suarez. They don't know the
difference between the City of Miami and the County. But what they do know is this
building. If you vote to support the County's plan, the building will be an icon that
you will all be proud of- it'll be your legacy. If you vote "no, " and kick it down the -
- kick the can down the road, what'll happen is the building will revert to the State;
that's the only thing that can happen. And no other State organization will take it
on, and it will be sold as surplus property. And then what will happen is that a
condo will be built there -- a real big one -- so it can see over Camp Biscayne to the
water, and that's what you'll be remembered for. Legacy is a very important thing;
it lasts a long time. Vote 'yes, " restore the theater with the County, and that will be
your legacy. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Barry White: Good afternoon. My name is Barry White, 1001 Southwest 129th
Terrace. The HEP Board got it right. They rejected this plan, because it is and
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would be a total failure, economically, architecturally, theatrically, and as an act
of historic preservation. And it is in violation of Federal historic preservation
standards, and would not qualms for Federal funding. This proposed plan would
not fulfill the function of the playhouse as an economic driver for the area.
Economically, it is a gross underuse of the location. It is too small to attract
significant numbers to the Grove; and even worse, those who do come would be
encouraged to eat and shop there instead of in the neighborhood. The current
configuration of the playhouse of 1,130 seats with a small cabaret theater would be
much better economically and historically, and there are dozens of 1,100 -seat
theaters throughout the nation, regional theaters, and hosting touring companies.
The South Dade Cultural Center has 964 seats and a small black box theater. The
proposed 300 -seat theater could not possibly produce enough income to support
the facility, or generate enough patronage to be anything more than a museum and
a cultural artifact. With more seats and no competing elements, and with more
parking, the playhouse could fill the nearby restaurants and shops, and draw
hundreds of thousands of patrons. The current plan would never draw more than a
hundred thousand per year. Someone said that Miami cannot support
(UNINTELLIGIBLE). What I really want to tell you is why the theater failed.
Arnold Middleman was the Producing Executive Director. Equity Players at the
theater realized that he was altering the shows coming from Broadway. The
gentleman who spoke before who was at the theater did not mention the production
of Broadway shows, because they were barred, blackballed by New York from
having productions. So when that happened, that -- and that board should have
fired him on that day. At the time that happened, there were busloads of people
coming from Broward. And it did not fail for lack of patronage; it failed for
catastrophic mismanagement of its board. And it can work.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
(Applause)
Chair Russell: No applause, please. Thank you very much. Hello.
Alexis Snyder: Good afternoon. I'm Alexis Snyder, Chief of Staff in the office of the
United States Congresswoman Fredericka Wilson, and I'm here to read a letter on
her behalf. And Quincy Cohen from our office has yielded his two minutes to me.
I'd like to read her letter. "Chairman Russell and City of Miami Commission, I
write to you regarding the pending plans to renovate the Historic Coconut Grove
Playhouse. In an effort to move forward towards reaching a compromise, I've
communicated with representatives from both sides of this issue, hoping to reach an
agreement beneficial to everyone; particularly, to the Bahamian American
community. Unfortunately, as of today, that compromise has not been achieved.
Additionally, I sincerely regret that the proposed development plans in its current
state will likely result in the Coconut Grove Playhouse losing its National Register
designation, which is so rare, and should be coveted. This will be a tremendous
loss to the Coconut Grove community, the City of Miami, and the State of Florida.
Unfortunately, however, the necessary funding stream is currently out of reach of
the parties negotiating to preserve the historic structure and designation. I am
encouraged, however, to say that I am moving forward with both the City of Miami
and Miami -Dade County to make my quest for Bahamian inclusion a reality.
Thank you, Commissioner Russell, for your willingness to provide the Bahamian
Heritage Initiative, Miami -Dade County, and the Coconut Grove Playhouse
Foundation with the much-needed deferral to consider the importance of including
Bahamian history and culture in this project. Thank you, Commissioner Gort, for
your input and for hearing our cry. Thank you, also, Mayor Gimenez, for
accommodating our small request to include the Bahamian Cultural Arts Center
within the Coconut Grove Playhouse development plan, and our larger request for
the museum and the Bahamian Village. We all know the history of Miami and the
important role Bahamians played in the establishment and founding of Miami. My
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grandparents were an integral part of the first Bahamian settlers in Miami and
Coconut Grove. I owe it to them and all of the Bahamian diaspora to preserve
their legacy and heritage, and to tell their story to our children and generations yet
unborn. As Chairperson of the Bahamian Heritage Initiative, I look forward to
working with you in achieving the goals and vision. Sincerely, Fredericka S.
Wilson, Member of Congress." And I'd like to yield the rest of my time, which is
probably about two minutes, to Rowena Poitier-Sutherland, who is the Director of
Culture for the Commonwealth of the Bahamas, and the founder of the Bahamas
Artists Movement.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Rowena Poitier-Sutherland: Honorable Commissioners, I am here today, not in my
capacity as Executive Director on a position of the Government of the Bahamas,
but rather as a cultural practitioner. Allison Cohen has also yielded her time to
me. My name is Rowena Poitier-Sutherland. I am from the Island of Freeport,
Grand Bahama. I've flown in from Nassau, Bahamas, to be here today with you. I
am a Bahamian, the founder of the Bahamas Artists Movement, lecturer at the
University of the Bahamas, a cultural and creative industries practitioner, and a
part of the Poitier legacy, dating back to 1913 in Coconut Grove. On the drive
here, I saw the walls that my great -great Uncle James Poitier built. Growing up in
the Bahamas, we would always hear about our proud legacy in Coconut Grove.
We knew of my Uncle Sidney Poitier's journey. This has been a beacon of
inspiration for an entire nation. Today I am saddened to see that little of my
ancestors' blood, sweat, and tears remain. However, I am encouraged by the
opportunity to restore the Coconut Grove Playhouse, a physical representation of
my forefathers' contribution to the development of Coconut Grove, as they built it
with their own hands. Honorable Commissioners, as mentioned earlier, this
building can be a cultural bridge. In 2002, the path of my family's names -- I
followed the path of my family's namesake, Sir Sidney Poitier. I began my own
journey in the United States. I was blessed to have the opportunity to pursue a
bachelor's and master's degree in the arts here in America, and to pursue a career
in acting. I am forever grateful for this opportunity, as it changed my life, and it is
a rare opportunity for many in my country. Since this time, I have dedicated my life
to two things: One, the advancement and protection of Bahamian Culture; two,
artists and creative industries development, particularly for youth. In 2012, I
founded a company called BAM, the original name being the Bahamas American
Movement, and later changed to the Bahamas Artists Movement. Since this time,
we have worked closely with American creatives to provide arts education, and
exchange opportunities between countries. We were also honored to receive
support and encouragement from Sir Sidney Poitier, and include on our advisory
board the likes of Mr. Danny Glover, and many great Americans and Bahamians,
excited about creating international spaces for arts education inclusion -- and
inclusion. This will be so in the Bahamas, in Coconut Grove, and around the
world. In 2016, I began conversations with Ms. Cornelia Dozier, Director of the
Greater Miami Host Committee, regarding the development of Coconut Grove
Bahamian Village. This was and still is an exciting prospect. The creation of such
a village will highlight the beautiful Coconut Grove story and heritage, and give
creatives from the Coconut Grove area and the Bahamas a platform to learn, to
work, to pass on the great story of how Coconut Grove came to be. Honorable
Commissioners, many from around the world are invested in preserving the historic
integrity of the Coconut Grove Playhouse. This is an integral part of our shared
heritage; our story. There is a proposed plan to sustain the playhouse that should
be considered for implementation. This building, Commissioners, is a cultural
bridge. Honorable Commissioners, I am here today to observe what is said, and on
what side of history you will fall. This is a part of your collective story. The
artistic community is watching; the cultural community is watching; the Bahamian
people are watching; and indeed, the world, Commissioners, are watching. I thank
you for this opportunity.
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(Applause)
Chair Russell: Thank you. Please, no applause. Did you get the name of the last
person that donated the time for the two minutes? There was additional --
Ms. Poitier-Sutherland: Allison Cohen.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Thank you very much. Hello.
Emilia Adams: Hello.
Chair Russell: If you -- oh, you have a hand-held mike?
Ms. E. Adams: Yeah.
Chair Russell: It sounds like it. All right. You can stand wherever you like.
Ms. E. Adams: Hello. My name is Emilia, and I'm in second grade at Carrollton,
and I am proud to say that I was a resident in Coconut Grove since I was born, and
I support the playhouse.
Scarlet Adams: Hello. My name is Scarlet. I'm in second grade in Carrollton.
What do I say next?
Chair Russell: Okay.
Ms. S. Adams: And I support the playhouse, and I think it's magical to me, and it
makes my life change.
Chair Russell: Thank you so much. I will allow applause for that.
(Applause)
Chair Russell: Well done. Would you like someone else to go before? That's all
right, if you need more time. You're ready?
Cornelia "Corky" Dozier: I got it. Good afternoon, Commission, Chair, Mr.
Chair, Commissioners. My name is Cornelia "Corky" Dozier. I celebrate 50 years
as a professional performing and visual, as well as media artist, as well as an
entrepreneur. I am very proud, indeed, to have served as a consultant for the NEA,
as well as the State of Florida Department of Cultural Affairs for the vital State
Theaters Exchange and Network; particularly looking at strategies and diversity,
and inclusion. Just recently, Congress amended the National Historic Preservation
Act in 2016. It amended it with an area that's very important, indeed, when we talk
about our community of Miami. They amend it because of inclusion, diversity. The
preservation movement is deeply committed to telling the full story of our nation's
history, and seeks to identify, acknowledge, and protect previously undervalued
places and underrepresented communities in order to capture the full breadth and
diversity of our nation. Historic preservation has demonstrated an unparalleled
capacity to realize and revitalize cities, neighborhoods, communities; foster vibrant
economic and social activity, and generate jobs, and spur tourism. Historic
preservation is more than brick and mortar. That's an important thought, because
we need to pay attention to cultural significance. This is about people; this is about
the use of properties, the use of land; it's not just about buildings. The human
element is crucial. I remember serving as the Chairman of Community Support for
the Performing Arts Center, and during that time, I -- and I must say that I have
yielded time from Mr. Richard Fendelman and yielded --
Chair Russell: Yes. We have it on the record.
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Ms. Dozier: Okay.
Chair Russell: You still have three minutes and 30 seconds left.
Ms. Dozier: Okay. And during that time as Chairman of Community Support, we
talked about existing facilities; that before we built a Coco -- the Performing Arts
Center that we have downtown that we would talk about existing facilities. Well,
the Coconut Grove Playhouse is an existing facility. Existing facilities are
wonderful, because it gives you the opportunity to create regional opportunities for
actors and musicians, and performers to create local talent opportunities, and
through their works, to tell the stories of their communities that they live in. That's
the most important aspect. The Coconut Grove Playhouse stands as a cultural hub
for the creative residents of Coconut Grove and the world. It's been a cultural
tourism destination with a dynamic diverse community, energized through a
creative spirit, abundant and creative economic opportunity, and infused with
passion for the arts. The playhouse sits in the center of the first Bahamian
settlement in the South Florida mainland. To the east, by the water, white
Bahamians, the Beasleys, developed their property, which is now known as The
Barnacle. To the west, on the other side of Main Highway, other white Bahamians,
like William Frow and E. W Stirrup, an African-American Bahamian, developed
properties. The Coconut Grove Playhouse sits on property that was once owned by
E. W Stirrup. The Coconut Grove Playhouse was built by Bahamians in that
community, who lived, by the way, in the black Bahamian gateway workforce
community adjacent to the theater on Charles Avenue. When I came here from
Broadway as the lead in Don't Bother Me, I Can't Cope for the Coconut Grove
Playhouse, I also came as an Actors Equity representative for the union, and found
out very quickly that the black talent that we had that had come from Broadway,
from a professional perspective, was not being welcomed. They could not stay in
the hotels. They could not -- they were not to be served in restaurants. And with
that in mind, I approached then Mr. Bob (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and said, "Is there a
discrimination action that we should take?" And he said, "What can we do?" And
I came to you. Many of you were apart of that time and experience when I came. I
came to the Commission for the City of Miami, and led by Bahamian American
Commissioner Reverend Theodore Gibson, the Coconut Grove Playhouse became
the first theater to be integrated. How wonderful to see that time, because that
integration led multicultural theater experiences; not just Spain -- not --just not
African-American, but Hispanic American experiences, Asian American
experiences; so many were brought to the theater. But most importantly, most
importantly, new audiences, new consumers came into the theater. The idea of
working with the Coconut Grove Playhouse Foundation is one that I embrace,
because the Coconut Grove Playhouse is my home. From the playhouse, I created
the Coconut Grove Children's Theater, a three -time Emmy Award-winning
corporation for public broadcasting; best children's theater in the United States
entity.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Corky.
Ms. Dozier: And with that in mind, I look to work with our community to develop
this vision as a performing arts center, rooted in culture and creativity, and I have -
Chair Russell: Thank you --
Ms. Dozier: I can't --?
Chair Russell: -- but I believe the time is up. We've done six full minutes of
speaking, so we don't -- we actually don't have time for the --
Ms. Dozier: Just two minutes. Can I get two minutes from someone?
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Chair Russell: -- video. How long is the video?
Ms. Dozier: It's a video.
Chair Russell: How long?
Ms. Dozier: Exactly two minutes.
Chair Russell: It's a two -minute video, so I'd say if there's someone who's willing
to yield their --
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE.)
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. What's your name, please?
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE.)
Chair Russell: Thank you.
(Video Presentation)
Ms. Dozier: That's the Coconut Grove Bahamian Village that's incorporated as a
part of the entire presentation plan --
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Ms. Dozier: --from the foundation.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Hello.
Freddie Young: Well, it's hard to follow that. I'm Dr. Freddie Young, born and
raised at 3767 Percival Avenue, and an active member of the NAACP (National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People). And I'm here because we
have always fought for the rights of individuals, and the right to maintain our
culture, and to be involved with saving our communities. And I ask you to really
consider your plans, and take into consideration the importance of Bahamian
culture and involvement. And as you notice, not members of the community are
here, and mainly because they have been before you many times and have not been
listened to, and African-Americans have not been someone that you valued of their
involvement. So we ask that you really reconsider and maintain and save the
playhouse. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Mr. Poitier.
Jeffrey Poitier: Commissioners, my name is Jeffrey Poitier. I am from Nassau,
Bahamas. I'm here to represent the Poitier family, both in the Bahamas and in
Coconut Grove, and the national community of actors. My family's relationship
with Coconut Grove Playhouse began in 1913, when my grandfather, Reginald
Poitier's cousin, James Poitier, Sr., moved from Cat Island, Bahamas to Coconut
Grove. According to his granddaughter, Evelyn, James Poitier, Sr. was a laborer,
like many Bahamian men of his generation. He was involved with the original
construction of the playhouse. His granddaughter, who still lives in the house at
3738 Oak Street, said that her father, James Poitier, Jr., along with others, built the
churches and many houses that still stand today in Coconut Grove, and Coral
Gables. The significance of the playhouse in the history of Coconut Grove is
unsurpassed. Built in 1927, it had successful seasonal runs for nearly 100 years.
The playhouse hosted the most notable theatrical performers and productions over
the decades, including the world premiere showing of Tennessee Williams' Sweet
Bird of Youth; the US (United States) premiere of Samuel Becketts' Waiting for the
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Dough, and even the taping of the Late Show, starring David Letterman. This
historic facility was recognized by the National Register of Historic Places, and the
State of Florida indicates that the significant historical elements are intact, and
that the facgade is not a severed building. In 2006, the playhouse closed its doors, a
victim of poor governance and oversight. Today the Playhouse Foundation stands
ready to return the playhouse to its past glory.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Poitier: The foundation consists of a diverse group of local residents, arts
patrons, preservationists, and community activists who are committed to restoring
the Historic Coconut Grove Playhouse to its past greatness, and putting it back on
the national theatrical map.
Chair Russell: Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.
Mr. Poitier: I have more to go.
Chair Russell: I apologize, but we are well past two minutes at this point.
Mr. Poitier: Thank you, Commissioner.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Lisa Remeny: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Lisa Remeny, Miami native,
visual artist, and resident of Coconut Grove. I'd like to remind you -- and I
probably don't have to -- but the people of the City of Miami voted for restoration,
not demolition, 14 years ago. That is what should happen, and this is why you
should consider Richard Heisenbottle's plan to restore the playhouse completely;
not destroy it. That is the will of the people, and that is what should happen.
Thank you very much.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Hello.
Guillermo de la Paz: Hi. Good afternoon. Guillermo de la Paz, Charles Avenue.
I support and I encourage the Commission to vote in favor of this plan. It's the only
plan and budget that we have in front of us in the last 13 years. In real estate, you
need two things to move forward; land and money. They have both. Residential
land in Miami -Dade County is gone unless that we move the line on the Everglades.
Residential land in Coconut Grove is selling between 90 to $100 a square feet. If
we don't get it done this time, we're going to ended [sic] up with 26 condo building
in that area. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Poitier: Mr. Juan Turros is donating his time to me --
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Poitier: --so that I can finish.
Chair Russell: Did he already speak? I'm sorry, I can't hear anybody, so.
Mr. Poitier: Pardon me?
Chair Russell: The person who's donated their time, are they here?
Mr. Poitier: Yeah, he's here.
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Unidentified Speaker: He stepped out for a second.
Mr. Poitier: That's his wife.
Chair Russell: Okay. He's got it. Thank you very much. Please continue. I
apologize. We're just trying to be fair to everyone with time.
Mr. Poitier: I understand.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Poitier: The foundation consists of a diverse group of local residents, arts
patrons, preservationists, and community activists who are committed to restoring
the Historic Coconut Grove Playhouse to its past greatness, and putting it back on
the national theatrical map. To that end, Dr. John Nordt, along with Corky Dozier
and other concerned citizens contacted me to help in their preservation efforts for
the playhouse. I then contacted several influential people, such as Actors Philip
Michael Thomas, Bill Cobbs, Robert Duval, and Tony Award-winning Broadway
Actor Toni Chisolm, who have generously agreed to support me in the preservation
effort. In addition, I contacted Rowena Poitier, who is the Director of Culture for
the Bahamas Government, to travel to the US to represent the Bahamian people's
interest in preserving this historic Coconut Grove Playhouse. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you, sir.
Brian May: Mr. Chairman, Brian May. I'm here as a Coconut Grove resident in
my own behalf today. I'd just like to say to you that I urge you to support the
appeal that's before you. I urge you to please move forward with the plan that's on
the table. I don't begrudge any of the comments or input that you received today. I
think a lot of valid points were made. I think a lot of the points that were made
probably don't have to do with the item that's before you, and can likely be
addressed in any programmatic way going forward, within the confines of the plan
that's on the table. And most of all, I would say to you that the time is really now to
move forward. The playhouse has been shuttered for the last 13 years. And so, you
have to ask yourself, "If not this, where does that leave us?" And I think where it
leaves us is kind of back to square one, because I don't think -- I think if you don't
move forward today and support the appeal, that funding is likely going to
dissipate, the time will pass, and a lot of will to move forward and a lot of will to
get it done will be missed, and an opportunity will be missed. So I hope today that
you will please move forward; that you will support the appeal and allow
something to take place at the playhouse, which I think will be meaningful, and I
think also have historic significance. So thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Anthony Vinciguerra: Anthony Vinciguerra, from 3325 Charles Avenue. I live just
a little bit over 400 feet from the playhouse, and I know we all care about it. It's
going to affect us right next to the playhouse immediately. But something -- as a
resident of the West Grove for the last 15 years, watching the loss of the historic
Bahamian community in the West Grove, the architecture, the culture, the people,
has been incredibly sad for me. As a white guy moving to the West Grove, I was
very cognizant of where I was moving, and so honored to live in a historic
community like that, and it's been incredibly sad to see that loss. So I think the
words that have been said about connecting the playhouse to the West Grove and
supporting the Bahamian community are incredibly important. But I also
understand that the issue you're voting on is really whether or not the County plan
respects the historic integrity of the playhouse, and it's clear. The HEP Board says
it doesn't; the State of Florida says it doesn't. I know my home, which is a
historically -designated house, if I asked to have three quarters of it demolished,
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(UNINTELLIGIBLE) the City would say, "No way, because it's no longer a historic
building." So it's pretty clear. I know that's the issue really being brought on
today, so I ask you not to grant the appeal, because it simply is not historic
preservation. The HEP Board, for those of us that were here at the meeting, asked
the County and Arquitectonica to go back and just come up with another plan that
respects the integrity of this historic building, and I don't think that's too much to
ask any of us. Thank you so much.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Elizabeth Ponce: Hi. My name is Elizabeth Ponce, and I'm here to talk about
marketing. I went to Boston College, and I find it sad that we're comparing apples
and oranges. This is a unique theater, just like this hand, gentlemen; you see, that's
unique. This is different. If we assume that there is no market in the future for such
a wonderful, fantastic place, where are we, you know? We need romance back.
We need gentlemen with suits and ties. We need those days. I believe that you all
are an example to the millennials, you know? If we have records back, if we have
the Jonas Brothers recreating Miami Vice -- please, please, this is a unique place.
I need five votes, gentlemen; five votes, because this is about the truth. And my
house burned down to the ground in Princeton, New Jersey, and I am going to
speak with power. Me and my daughter have been gypsies for the past 10 years.
We landed in this fantastic place called Coconut Grove. You cannot separate the
theater from the trees and the birds, and the romance. So, hopefully, you'll see that
this is our one and only theater; that we can market this place in a fantastic way.
And I hope and pray today that magic is here. And thank you for your service to
Florida --
Chair Russell: Thank you. Well done.
Ms. Ponce: --and the United States ofAmerica.
Chair Russell: Thank you. No applause, please. Thank you so much.
Ms. Ponce: And please -- this is my alma mater, Boston College.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Kathy Parks Suarez: Good afternoon. My name is Kathy Suarez, and I live in the
South Grove at 4035 Battersea Road. So many great arguments. The West Grove
is my favorite place, and it's not been respected. The iconic playhouse has been
sitting for far too long. We know the County has money. I've been fair. I've looked
at everybody's plans. I don't have a life. This is all I do, is community stuff, and I
don't get paid to do it. I've looked at it objectively. I've looked at it up and down
and all around, and I wanted the playhouse saved. But save what, for who? I keep
hearing about what you're going to do for the West Grove. Nothing's being done
for the West Grove. Grand Avenue is the -- it's just demo by neglect. And the
playhouse is being demo'd by neglect. What is it we're saving? We know the
County has the money. We also know that the State can auction it off, and it's the
last piece of dirt left in Coconut Grove to build high-rise with water views. When is
it going to stop? When are we going to make decisions, and when are we going to
start making good financial decisions that benefit everybody? We're spending
money irresponsibly. I'm a businesswoman, and we're not running the City like a
business, and it's getting really scary. I hope and pray whatever decision wins --
and I'm in favor of the County at this point, because I know they have the money.
And I think a 300 -seat theater is sustainable. But I certainly hope the West Grove
has some inclusion in this; I just fear not. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
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Rick Gonzalez: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. I have a
slight cold, so excuse me, but I'll try to do my best. My name is Rick Gonzalez, and
I happen to be an expert in Florida historic preservation. And I also grew up on
17th Avenue, right down the street, so I'm here for many reasons. I'm also on the
Florida Historical Commission. I am the architect that reviews all the National
Register listings before they go up to Washington, D.C. (District of Columbia). I've
been doing that for 10 years as a volunteer. I'm an architect 30 years, with REG
Architects, in West Palm Beach, Florida, my headquarters. I'm also the past
President of the Florida Trust for Historic Preservation. We had our conference
here five years ago in the City of Miami; one of the best conferences that we had.
Thank you for that opportunity back then. And I also have two blogs with over
1,500 followers on issues that affect Florida historic preservation and Florida
historic places, like the Coconut Grove Playhouse. The HEP Board of the City of
Miami did their job on March of 2019. Competent and substantial evidence was
presented at that hearing. Arguments were made from both sides. That board did
not say that they wanted to demolish this building and keep the southern facade and
the eastern facade. They said, "We want to save and re -salvage, and reuse this
wonderful historic building." The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with whom I work with,
Mr. Tim Parsons, sent a letter -- an email -- in 2017 November -- I have copies --
and also, an email this past couple of months where seven of the 10 standards of
the Secretary of the Exterior [sic] were violated by this proposal that the County is
putting forward to you today. You're at a crossroads. You can either be known as
the people that decided to save this beautiful building so that when it does have a
hundred years of history behind it -- and I can visualize that celebration. I'd love to
come down to it -- people can say, "This Commission saved that building." I urge
you to save this building. And I'm here to answer any questions if you need me to.
Chair Russell: And just to clary -- tell me your name again; I'm sorry.
Mr. Gonzalez: Rick Gonzalez.
Chair Russell: Rick Gonzalez. You are currently with the Florida Department of
State, or you were with the Department of State?
Mr. Gonzalez: I am -- I have my own firm in West Palm Beach, and then I
volunteer as a Historic Commissioner on the Florida Historical Commission. And
I'm also the architect on the National Review Board. We review all the
applications.
Chair Russell: Got it. You review the applications as the State recommends to the
National Register?
Mr. Gonzalez: Correct. We have to -- before they go up to Washington,
Tallahassee has to do a review of each building that comes from the State of
Florida.
Chair Russell: Thank you. If you don't mind sticking around, there may be --
Mr. Gonzalez: I will.
Chair Russell: --some questions for you. Thank you very much.
Mr. Gonzalez: Yes, Iwill. Thankyou.
Chair Russell: Are there no further speakers left? What are you looking for?
Could I get some help from IT (Information Technology), please? There's a
PowerPoint presentation. Is it on this computer that's at this lectern?
Lewis "Mike" Eidson: I don't know. I -- the computer IT guy left and said there
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was nobody here, but I can go without it.
Chair Russell: Two minutes?
Mr. Eidson: Yeah. Well, I've got (INAUDIBLE) --
Chair Russell: I just need to make sure the Clerk has your name, whoever is
donating their time, and that they haven't already spoke and don't intend to, and
just want to quantify it now so I don't interrupt you. How many people are we
talking about here? One?
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE.)
Chair Russell: If you'd just approach the Clerk, please, and so I know how many
there are. So we're looking at two people donating their time, which totals six
minutes, including yours.
Mr. Eidson: Good afternoon. My name is Mike Eidson, and I'm an attorney in
Coral Gables at Colson Hicks and Eidson. I live at 501, Apartment 501, Park
Grove Condominium, about three blocks from here. And I've been living in this
area for about 45 years, and I'm very proud to call Miami my home. And I -- about
25 years ago, I got involved in arts administration, and I have been working in that
ever since as a -- you know -- a vocation. I -- it's what I like to do. I love working
with artists. I like giving back to the community that's been so good to me. I have
been fortunate to be very successful here, and I have founded an organization
called the Coconut Grove Playhouse Foundation -- which is what people have been
talking about when they say, "the foundation" -- to study whether or not it's feasible
to return an important national theater here to Coconut Grove in the Coconut
Grove Playhouse. And we've concluded after doing five years of study, including a
report that was done by AMS Planning and Research, a national theater, if it's --
you have a 700 -seat theater properly managed, it will be successful. We had
somebody up here just a minute ago talking about what it was like at Coconut
Grove Playhouse. It wasn't managed right; that's why it went out of business.
There are great regional theaters all over the country that do very, very well.
We've studied those, and they're in places that have great performing arts centers,
like the Arsht Center. I was the Chairman of the Board and the President of the
Miami City Ballet for nine years. After that, I served five years as the Chairman of
the Adrienne Arsht Center. I've been in an executive position therefor 10 years. I
started there practically from the beginning of that. If you recall, people said,
"Theater won't work down there. The Arsht Center won't be successful." And I
think we're one of the finest performing arts centers in the country today. The
ballet is now the fourth largest and most successful ballet company in this country,
and among the top 10 in the country. And I talk about that because I've heard so
much today about why great theater won't work here; why a great national theater
like we've had for decades won't work. And I'm here to tell you that we've studied
this from coast to coast. I've been to 15 cities. I've talked to people from the east
coast to the west coast to London to study their business plans. And we have got
our business plan in the PowerPoint I was going to show you, and we will
absolutely be successful if we restart great theater here again. We need to preserve
this building. And I want to tell you a minute about the business plan -- about the
three parts of what we want to do to Coconut Grove Playhouse; what we would like
to do if we had an opportunity. First of all, we're asking for a public/private
partnership. We believe that's the way that this should be. It should be run with
private sector money invested in it. This is different than the performing arts
center. The performing arts center is a roadhouse. This here is a creative space.
This is a space for everybody in this community. It's not just for District 2; it's for
every single district sitting up here. And it will create jobs and income, and
opportunity for children, young people, and adults to come down here and be
entertained, and to learn about theater, learn about music, learn about all the arts.
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We have three buildings involved here. First, we are going to restore -- we suggest
restoring the Coconut Grove Playhouse completely and modernizing that, and
bringing it back to its 1925 condition. About 20 years ago, there was a building
next door to a property I own in Coral Gables called -- it's now Books 'N Books.
Most of you probably know that building. That's a 1923 building. That building
was scheduled to be demolished. I came in there and saved the building, and built
an office building next to it, because I believe in preservation. That's now, I think,
one of the most exciting places in Coral Gables, and that's an example of what
preservation is all about. That could have been torn down. It wasn't considered
important. But we got the original plans and we rebuilt it. We can do that with the
Coconut Grove Playhouse. The second is a small theater to the left side of the
Coconut Grove Playhouse for Joe Adler. Our plan includes a space for him. We
really don't have any argument here about Joe Adler. Joe Adler's a fine director.
We have a 200 -seat theater to 225 -seat black box theater right next to the reserve
theater for him to use until he retires. On the other side, the most exciting part of
this, I think, is the conservatory that we've designed. It's a three-story building. If
the first story is -- the first story is for a Bahamian museum, Bahamian/Cuban
museum, whatever we decide to do there. We're going to have a diverse board. We
suggest a diverse board, representing all of Miami -Dade County. Number two, we
would have a museum for the history of Coconut Grove. This is a great community.
We've been here for over a hundred years. There's a lot to see, a lot to do. There
are tourists that come through here, local people that could use that. The second
floor, that was the most exciting. It's six studios; studios that would be used by
people for all the arts and for community activities, so it'd bring people down here
365 days a year. The current plan has that theater -- it's active 30 weeks a year,
and a lot of those are dark, because they're doing rehearsal. How many people do
you think that's going to attract down there by itself? Not many. What we really
have is a little theater in the middle of a shopping center. I don't want any
commercial activity down there. We don't have any in our plan. Everything is for
the arts; it's to bring this community together; it's to include -- and that's why we
had people who were talking about the West Grove. Those people have been left
out for a hundred years. They've looked at the back of this. We think that we
should have programs for everybody in Miami. People should be coming down
here, not because this is a great theater in the Grove; because it's a great theater in
Miami. We're the only city in the United States -- does not have an important
regional theater; the only one. There's 75 around this country. We can afford to
have an important regional theater in this country that brings down imported stars.
There was some testimony about Coconut Grove's condition before it ran into
management problems and went bankrupt. From 1994 to 2004, they had a 1.3
million -dollar surplus. I've got the statistics right here in front of me.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) was their Chairman of the Board compiled. Now, how are we
going to pay for these three buildings? Oh, the third floor is classrooms. It's a
whole floor of classrooms. This is the --what I would call the liner for the garage.
It's this conservatory. This is $42.5 million. Where did we get the figure? We had
Skanska International that built the science museum gave us an estimate of the cost
of doing -- of preserving history -- this 100 -year-old building we've been hearing
about; the small theater, which is typical around the country, with a large theater,
and this conservatory, $42.5 million. The City of Miami does not have to put any
money into this in order for us to be able to afford this. This is a big city. We're
supposed to be looking forward. We're a global city. We're a first-class world-
class city.
Chair Russell: Mr. Eidson --
Mr. Eidson: We can't afford the $20 million, okay. So where is the 42.5 --?
Chair Russell: Yeah. You're -- because the time is up, but I have a feeling --
Mr. Eidson: One more minute.
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Chair Russell: -- everyone here is actually very curious to know --
Mr. Eidson: I've been working on this for five years, okay?
Chair Russell: -- where the additional $20 million would come from.
Mr. Eidson: I've put $1 million in this last night. I believe in this. I put $2 million
in this myself. I've already spent a million dollars. I put another million dollars in
it last night. I've got two more million dollars in my pocket. We had 11 million.
Some of those people walked away, because this has taken so long. Why has this
taken 13 years? It's not because of anything that I did. It's not anything that the
people who support this did. But for $42.5 million, we can afford it. We have right
now, including the four -- we have the money to do this, and we can raise the rest
through a capital campaign. I've raised over a hundred million dollars in the last
25 years in this community. Through the Adrienne Arsht Center, we raise 6 million
a year. I've been therefor 10 years; that's 60. Miami City Ballet, nine years; 6
million a year. We have a $20 million budget now. We have 53 dancers. We're
traveling now at the Kennedy Center; we went to London; we went to New York; we
went to Paris. We can do that with this theater. We can create new theater that
goes to Broadway. The La Jolla Theater, a little theater out there in San Diego,
about the size of what we want to do here, had six plays on Broadway last year; six
plays last year, bringing in money so that they can create and give jobs to people.
This will create -- a large theater complex like this should be able to generate $25
million a year in economic activity for this community. It will pay for itself. This is
an investment that you can make in the future for our people here. This is a 100 -
year decision. This is a magnificent piece of property. This is a once-in-a-lifetime
opportunity. Let's go for it. Let's be a great city now and let's be ambitious, and do
the right thing. Thank you very much for listening to me.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
(Applause)
Chair Russell: No, no, please, please everybody. Please hold your applause.
Thank you very much. Is there anyone else who would like to speak publicly at
public comment? Is there anyone else here who would like to speak? Are you
going to speak, sir?
Bob Kovacevich: Yes, I am.
Chair Russell: Okay. And you're going to speak? I'm sorry? Come to the
microphone.
Mr. Heisenbottle: Yes, of course, I'm going to speak, and Bob's going to speak first
here.
Chair Russell: Okay. Two minutes apiece.
Mr. Heisenbottle: No. Bob, I believe, only needs two minutes. Bob, you could use
that microphone if you want. But I've had three people give their time to me, so I
have a total of eight minutes, and I may yield some of that to -- first Bobby; first
Bob.
Chair Russell: You have that on record, Todd, the people who are donating their
time to Mr. Heisenbottle?
Mr. Hannon: I just need the names.
Mr. Heisenbottle: Lourdes Tester, Meghan Pace, and Denise Torros. And if we
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need (INAUDIBLE).
Chair Russell: If you need to, okay. So that's four people, eight minutes; that gives
him a total of 10.
Mr. Heisenbottle: Let's --
Chair Russell: Were they going to speak?
Mr. Heisenbottle: --just say that we've got the rest of this covered, I think.
Chair Russell: Okay. But we'll put eight minutes on for now and -- we're just
about to lose quorum here.
Mr. Heisenbottle: Okay. Bob, you -- do you want --? Mr. Chairman, do you want
Bob to go?
Chair Russell: Yes, I did, but let me just make sure we've got quorum. They're
here. They were just having coffee on the side. Please.
Mr. Kovacevich: My name is Bob Kovacevich. I live at 2907 Red Bug Lake Road -
- hard to believe -- in Winter Park, Florida. I've been a nonprofit organization
consultant since 1978, studying how it works and how it doesn't work. I am the -- I
am poised to advance the campaign for the foundation and for the restoration of
the playhouse. And what I've handed out to you is my resume, which includes
several hundred nonprofit organizations internationally that I have successfully
launched major campaigns for, using a best practices formula that the for-profit
sector has used for many decades, and that is to -- before they go to market with a
new product or service, they develop a prototype. And in the case of this particular
project, the prototype is the vision of what the foundation has relative to the
playhouse. And back to the for-profit sector, after they've developed a prototype,
they identify people who are likely users of that product or service and they give
that product to them to use, and they ask them to evaluate it, to asset it, all the right
things, the wrong things, all of the nuances associated with the product. They want
to make sure that they hit a homerun on the first pitch. They also ask them, "If the
product were to be perfect, how much would you pay for the product?" And that's
the same process that I applied to the nonprofit sector successfully since 1978.
What we find out in the studies that I conduct is: To what degree is the vision
compatible with the audience? That's everybody in the community. And to what
degree is it fundable? And the second thing that I passed out to you, it's titled,
"Example of Multi -Million -Dollar Campaigns. " There at 15 multi -million -dollar
campaigns that are listed in this document, and the first one starts with the $120
million campaign that we managed for the Museum of Science and Industry, in
Tampa, Florida. It's up and running. It was a small -- relatively small museum in
the beginning. It now is the largest museum in the State of Florida. It attracts over
200,000 people to the museum every year. And within this, there's also a
significant number of theaters that we manage, helped turn the corner on their
vision. And again, I'm ready and poised to help advance the initiative for the
foundation.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Mr. Kovacevich: Thank you.
Chair Russell: So that was the -- that was a different time; that was his two
minutes. Mr. Heisenbottle has the donated time.
Mr. Heisenbottle: Mr. Chairman?
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Chair Russell: Yes.
Mr. Heisenbottle: The point of Bob is the foundation has already engaged Bob to
begin this sort of work; that Bob has a track record -- an amazing track record of
fundraising. The point of all that is the City of Miami should never come out of its
pocket for $1 to support this theater. This should be done on -- the taxpayers have
already given enough. This should be done with private sector money and it's
possible, and we got the team built to do it. That aside, Commissioners, Mr.
Mayor, my name is Rich Heisenbottle, and I'm President of RJ Heisenbottle
Architects, with offices at 2199 Ponce de Leon Boulevard, in Coral Gables,
Florida. Many of you know that I've provided expert testimony before this
Commission on numerous occasions in the past, and that I served as Commissioner
Gort's appointment to your Preservation Board for over 10 years. Today, I again
submitted my resume to the Clerk as an expert, and I'd ask the Chair if he would
graciously give me a little more time. I think we're okay timewise. As an expert on
historic preservation matters, along with my colleague, Rick Gonzalez, who spoke
earlier, and Arva Moore -Parks, the renowned historian, both of them spoke earlier,
provided clear and competent testimony and evidence to your HEP Board that your
HEP Board did not err in denying the County's application for a Certificate of
Appropriateness. They did not err, because, beyond the shadow of a doubt, they
heard clear and competent testimony -- the same clear and competent testimony
that you've heard and that you're hearing now -- that the County's plan does not
meet the Secretary of the Interior Standards and Guidelines for the restoration and
rehabilitation of historic structures. This testimony is the legal criteria required for
all approval of a COA (Certificate of Appropriateness) under Chapter 23 of the
City of Miami Code. It's not whether we like 300 -seat theaters or 700 -seat theaters,
or whether he's nicer than he is. It always comes down in preservation law to
whether or not you meet the Secretary of the Interior Standards. That was the
charge of your Preservation Board, and that is your charge today. Commissioners,
this is a very special day. Today each of you has the opportunity to change the
course of history; to save the Coconut Grove Theater. You have the opportunity to
right a wrong that has been perpetuated throughout the City of Miami by well-
intentioned, but gravely mistaken representatives of Miami -Dade County and their
professional consultants. That wrong, that misrepresentation is that the County
plan for the playhouse is somehow a restoration project. Nothing could be further
from the truth. That the playhouse remained shuttered for so long, we all know and
would probably agree is civically indefensible. In 2004, County residents
envisioned the theater's glorious rebirth when we voted for the reconstruction of the
Coconut Grove Playhouse to restore its structural integrity, and add to the
performance and educational capabilities. But sadly, for its own convenience,
perhaps, Miami -Dade County chose to undertake a massive demolition and new
construction project; a garage, retail and office development, with an ancillary
300 -seat theater, cloaked in the misrepresentation that this is somehow a historic
preservation project. Why the County proceeded in that manner I'm not sure, but
when the product was first submitted to the State of Florida for a special category
preservation grant and deemed ineligible by the State Historic Preservation
Officer, Mr. Spring certainly should have known that he was doing something
improper. Tim Parsons, the Director of the Division of Historic Resources of the
State of Florida, the Historic Preservation Officer made it abundantly clear. In
November 2017, he wrote Mr. Spring and advised that, quote, "This project, as
presented in the application and associated attachments, including the
architectural drawings, has not conformed to the Secretary of the Interior
Standards, and if carried out as proposed, it would not comply with the following
standards for rehabilitation," and there's 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 10. Heck, that's nearly
all of them. Rather than respond to Tim Parsons by revising the plan to conform to
the standards, which is what we all normally do -- it happens to me, as well -- the
County continued to proceed with the same concept and tried to move heaven and
earth to justify that this demo -- this demolition plan. They will tell you that the
exceptional architectural, artistic, cultural, and historic importance is gone, and
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that the -- what was originally -- or of its latest iteration -- 1,130 -seat theater
should be torn down and replaced by a new 300 -seat theater. This is the -- excuse
the word -- arrogance that has resulted in a second letter from the State of Florida
to your Historic Preservation Officer, Warren Adams, on March 1, 2019; a year
later. Tim and his staff have to repeat themselves again and restate that the revised
plans again fail to meet the Secretary's Standards. And then in a show of continued
arrogance, instead of returning to the HEP Board, which is what everyone else in
the City of Miami does when they have a problem, we decide we're going to come
to the Commission and ask the City Commission for an appeal. We're going to try
to override the HEP Board. I think that's certainly very, very unfortunate. The
playhouse still possesses the integrity of design, setting and workmanship, and it
still has major significance in the City of Miami's historic, cultural, aesthetic, and
architectural heritage. By the way, copies of the memo from the State Historic
Preservation Office, the highest Preservation Officer in the State of Florida, with
an amazing staff of very competent preservation architects and scholars, those
memos and those -- and e -letter are in your packet today, and should be considered
a permanent record of why this does not meet the standards. The entire Kiehnel
and Elliott auditorium is restorable within the guidelines of the US Secretary of the
Interior Standards for the rehabilitation of structures, and should be eligible for
State and Federal grant funding. So what can this Commission do to make a
difference? What can you do to change the course of history? Well, you have three
options, but let's talk only about two. You can tell the County to go back to the
HEP Board when you have your plans that meet the Secretary of the Interior
Standards. I don't personally recommend that. Or, as I do recommend, you can
offer a compromise COA that will meet the Secretary of the Interior Standards;
allow the County and FIU to proceed with the construction of the new garage and
the front liner building; allow the County to proceed to restore the front fagade of
the playhouse, in accordance with the Secretary of the Interior Standards, and as
directed by your very competent Historic Preservation Officer; allow the County to
proceed with construction of a 200 -seat theater for GableStage, who, after all this
time, certainly deserves their theater, but that 200 -seat studio theater, the size
theater they originally expected to get, should be situated on the property adjacent
to the historic theater. You can suggest that the County embrace a public/private
partnership with the Playhouse Foundation and the Bahamian surrounding
community, and allow them to raise the funds necessary to restore the historic main
stage Playhouse Theater as a multicultural Broadway of the south that it deserves
to be. In this compromise, everyone in this room gets what they want. The
Playhouse Foundation and the Bahamian community have a plan that truly meets
the requirements of the Secretary of the Interior Standards and one that restores
the playhouse's structural integrity, and adds to its performance and educational
capabilities; one that will allow the State of Florida and Federal funding
opportunities to go forward; a plan that also embraces all segments of our
community, not just one. This is what the public voted for in 2004, when they
approved that bond issue. Are you brave enough to change the course of history
today, gentlemen, to tell Miami -Dade County what to do? Because in my opinion,
that is your charge. Be sure that it meets the Secretary of the Interior Standards.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Heisenbottle: The legacy of the playhouse, the heart and soul of Coconut
Grove needs to continue; most certainly, not as a 300 -seat theater with an old
facade in the midst of a retail and office development, but as a restored historic
theater, continuing in its legacy of theatrical and artistic excellence.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Mr. Heisenbottle.
Mr. Heisenbottle: Thankyou very much.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
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(Applause)
Chair Russell: Please hold your applause. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Hello.
Carmen Pelaez: Hey, everybody; so much agreement today. I heard a lot of
agreement. Commissioner Gort, you asked for a compromise; Playhouse
Foundation's got it. Mr. Adler and all his fans get a home for him to make his
award -- Carbonell award-winning theater; they get it right away. That's a
compromise. The parking garage can happen. The money can be there. We've got
literally --
Chair Russell: Did you -- state her name?
Ms. Pelaez: -- a fundraiser --
Chair Russell: I'm sorry; I didn't catch your name.
Ms. Pelaez: Oh, sorry. Carmen Pelaez.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Ms. Pelaez: I'm famous in my own head, so sometimes I forget I'm not actually
famous. We literally have an expert in raising money; that's raised hundreds of
millions of dollars that can do this for us. Today we decide if we are a city of
standards, if we respect our laws, or if we're going to be backwater. I hate to put it
that way, you guys, but that's what I'm hearing. TCG (Theatre Communications
Group) comes next month. Thousands of theater makers come next month. All of
my friends have asked me already to take them to the playhouse. For those of you
that don't care about theatrical history, you don't think art matters, I got one word
for you: azucar. Everybody knows that's Celia Cruz, and everybody knows that's
Cuba. Art matters. Luis Santero had his plays at Coconut Grove Playhouse. I told
my family's story of exile from that stage, and I took it to New York and Los
Angeles, because on my resume, it said, "Coconut Grove Playhouse, " because
every important Twentieth Century artist of color and Anglo and Hispanic, and
Asian worked there. They did diversity before it was a thing. The Foundation is
offering a public/private partnership. Investment equals accountability. Nobody
wants free money. I want to hold people accountable. I want to participate. And
I'm sorry; if a 300 -seat theater that works half the year is going to bring so much
investment and is going to work so well, let's add a few more seats in; that's more
restaurants, more gift shops. When I was in that theater, I stayed there, I lived
there. It was magical. Buses came in. Restaurants were full. People got to hear
theater in their language; they deserve that. Mike Gibson is experienced;
Heisenbottle is experienced Your HEP Board is brilliant. I've seen them argue
for an hour and a half about a potted plant in front of a house. They have
standards as well; they should. Commissioner, everybody should have standards.
If we were going to get on a plane right now and the mechanic said, "Well, we got
five out of the six checklist things that aren't quite working, but we think it's going
to be okay. Let's just take off. Let's just take off. "
Commissioner Hardemon: They said it on my last --
Ms. Pelaez: You'll never take off.
Commissioner Hardemon: -- plane ride.
Ms. Pelaez: Okay.
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Commissioner Hardemon: We took off.
Ms. Pelaez: You -- Well, I would have gotten off, because my dad was a pilot. If
the mechanic doesn't say, "Six out of six; we're ready to go, " I'm not taking off.
Why do we have to take off? There's compromise. There's money. There's
goodwill. Coconut Grove Playhouse was the most important artistic institution in
Miami before the arts got here, before Art Basel and everything, and nobody said
Miami could be an artistic city. You guys have the opportunity to say, "We are on
a global stage. We are international. We will not go back. " Past is prologue. We
can do this, "Porque somos Miami."
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Ms. Pelaez: "Porque somos Cubano, " Bahamian, Haitian, Anglo, Japanese, black,
white. And we need a stage for everybody; for GroveStage; for all the brilliant
Cuban theater that's happening that every time Igo, it's sold out. And I'm sorry; if
you say your theater doesn't sell seats, you're not programming right. We can do
this.
(Applause)
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Ms. Pelaez: We can do, Commissioners. Thank you. Thank you for your time.
Thank you. We can do this.
Commissioner Reyes: Ms. Pelaez, you're a great actress.
Ms. Pelaez: No. But you know what? I don't have to act when I'm telling the
truth, Commissioner.
(Applause)
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Commissioner Reyes: You're a great actress.
Ms. Pelaez: Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Hold your applause, please. Thank you. Are there
anyone -- is there anyone else here for public comment, before we close public
comment on this important item? Going once. Going twice. What will happen at
this point -- because I'm going to take two minutes, so I can use the men's room,
because it's been a long afternoon of public comment, but I don't want to miss a
thing. So the next thing we'll do, the City will set the table for exactly what we are
doing here. They basically explain how we got to where we are, and the rules of
the road of what our Commission is voting on today. The appellant will then
present their case for exactly what they're appealing, what they're trying to achieve
through this action, and the elements. They obviously filed a letter, but they're
open to make their case today in any way they want. This is a de novo hearing, so
they can go back as far as they want and look at this board as the decider from this
point forward. So is there no person here left for public comment? I really don't
want to shut anybody out who didn't hear me and wants to come back later but
won't be able to. All right. We're going to close public comment Thank you all
very much for your advocacy. You've been absolutely incredible and civil, which I
thank very much. And we're just going to break for four minutes; literally, four
minutes --five minutes, and we'll be right back here; five minutes. Thank you.
Later...
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Chair Russell: Thank you very much. We are back in session and ready to take up
our first item, SP. 1, at 4:22 in the afternoon. This is our only item for the evening.
This is an appeal for the Historic Environmental Preservation Board decision
regarding 3500 Main Highway, the Historic Coconut Grove Playhouse. So
Francisco or Warren, if either of you would like to sort of set the rules of the road
here, or give us a little background, that would be helpful. Thank you.
Francisco Garcia: Certainly, sir. What I would like to do is to first introduce
myself,• Francisco Garcia, Planning Director; and my colleague, Warren Adams,
the Chief of Preservation Office. And I think it would be appropriate for him to
enter into the record the analysis and report that was presented to the HEP Board,
perhaps a bit of a history to recap what got us here and how we got here, and then
certainly answer any questions you may have.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Should be on.
Warren Adams (Preservation Officer/Planning): Can you hear me?
Chair Russell: Yes.
Mr. Adams: Yes. Historic Preservation Officer. Would you like a history, a brief
history of how this has come about and how we have ended up this particular --?
Chair Russell: In a nutshell, the very basics, especially having to do with what
we're going to be dealing with today --
Mr. Adams: Sure.
Chair Russell: -- as an appellant board.
Mr. Adams: Okay. The property was designated as a historic site in 2005 on the
local register. As you've heard, there was some confusion over what was actually
designated. The Historic Designation Report says only the south and east facades
have historic significance. The Designation Report did not designate the interior of
the building. As you heard, it appears that the intention potentially was to
designate the entire structure; however, the Designation Report was never
amended to reflect that. Move forward to 2017, and that was when the County
submitted effectively a concept master plan of what their proposals were for the
site, and this application was specifically for partial demolition, partial restoration,
and new construction. So the plan actually showed that the auditorium area would
be demolished and the front building would be restored and a new auditorium, and
a new parking garage would be constructed. This was presented to the Historic
Preservation Board, and this was actually approved by the Historic Preservation
Board; however, it was approved with conditions. The resolution actually says that
the approval was for a partial demolition. However, there were conditions
included in there. This approval by the board was ultimately appealed by two
residents, and it was brought to the City Commission. The City Commission
granted in part and denied in part, and --
Commissioner Hardemon: One second, please. Mr. Chairman --
Mr. Adams: --the --
Commissioner Hardemon: -- can I ask a question?
Mr. Adams: -- appeal --
Chair Russell: Yes. Commissioner Hardemon has a question.
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Commissioner Hardemon: Are you going to get into any of the minutes that were
given to us regarding --?
Mr. Adams: I can get into -- I believe some of them were already read into the
record—
Commissioner Hardemon: Yes.
Mr. Adams: -- but I do have the minutes from the designation meeting or the
minutes from the --
Chair Russell: The 2005 was the only one where minutes were read, I believe.
Mr. Adams: I have some of these minutes here. If you want me to read them into
the record --
Commissioner Hardemon: No. I just -- I want to understand how the actual
minutes apply to what you're presenting to us. That's all I want to understand.
Mr. Adams: The minutes from the 2005 designation meeting?
Commissioner Hardemon: Yes.
Chair Russell: Yes.
Mr. Adams: The minutes from the 2005 designation meeting appear to suggest that
the intent of the board was to designate the entire building, rather than just the two
fagades that are mentioned in the Designation Report. However, the report was
never changed to reflect this.
Commissioner Hardemon: Right.
Chair Russell: Is it --
Commissioner Hardemon: So -- and the minutes --
Chair Russell: Oh, I'm sorry.
Commissioner Hardemon: -- were adopted --
Mr. Adams: Yes.
Commissioner Hardemon: -- with the idea that it was the entire building?
Mr. Adams: That's what the minutes suggest.
Commissioner Hardemon: But the report came out as if it was just the facade?
Mr. Adams: Yes.
Commissioner Hardemon: Was the report something that was ever adopted as
well, or is the report just produced?
Mr. Adams: The Designation Report was adopted.
Commissioner Hardemon: So the report was adopted after the minutes would have
been approved?
Mr. Adams: Yes.
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Commissioner Hardemon: So those on the board would have had an opportunity to
read the actual report and make comments saying, "We intended to adopt the" --
or ` preserve the entirety of the structure; not just the fagade"?
Mr. Adams: I was not here, but I would presume that people had a chance to read
the report prior to the meeting.
Chair Russell: In that same vein, Mr. Adams, what -- is the relevance that -- is the
relevance the report and whether the report is amended, or the vote of the board?
Because the -- we receive reports, but then we cast our vote as a board, and that's
the -- is that the binding decision, or is the report the binding decision?
Mr. Adams: Yes.
Chair Russell: I thought the report is staffs recommendation --
Mr. Adams: Yes.
Chair Russell: -- but the vote of the board is what seals the deal.
Mr. Adams: I think that'd be a question for Legal as to what actually carries the
weight.
Chair Russell: Counsel is conferring with counsel.
John Greco (Deputy City Attorney): Your question, Mr. Chair, was whether or not
it's the testimony at the hearing or the actual report that's binding?
Chair Russell: No. The vote of the board overrule the report, which is the
recommendation up to the board, which is the binding decision? Is it the vote of
the board or the report that's submitted?
Mr. Greco: Well, first of all, I only have three pages of this report, and they're all -
- Page 5, Page 36, and I can't tell what the last page is, so it's sort of hard in a
vacuum for me to tell exactly what happened, but obviously, if there's clear intent
on behalf of the board to modem a report, then that would be the end result, but I
can't -- I honestly can't tell that from the three pages that I --
Chair Russell: I've read the entire minutes, and those voting were stating during
their vote that they are voting to designate the entire structure; not the interior, but
the entire structure. But in the report, you mentioned something that -- the report
stated that only the south and east facades were historically significant. Was it
architecturally significant or historically significant?
Mr. Adams: Architecturally significant.
Chair Russell: Right. And I -- because I think many might agree that the rear
structure is not as architecturally significant, but the question then comes in, Is it
historically significant enough to be designated with the whole?" And it seems as
though the intention of the board in 2005 was to designate the entire structure. It
doesn't mean you can't demolish an entirely designated structure; you just need to
come for a Certificate of Appropriateness. So I don't know how important that fact
is at this point. It may be trivial to the fact that they are coming -- they came for a
Certificate of Appropriateness to demolish that structure, and then the HEP Board
at this time can decide whether that's appropriate or not, correct?
Mr. Adams: Yes.
Chair Russell: All right. So then that brings us from the 2005 up to their seeking
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these -- the COA, which then brings us to what?
Mr. Adams: The COA was approved by the board with conditions. This was back
in 2017. And there was at this point, after this had been done, that I joined the
City. So all of this had been done obviously prior to me starting here. And an
appeal against the board's approval was submitted by two residents, which was
brought to the City Commission. The City Commission granted in part and denied
in part the appeal. The Commission made some recommendations, and this was
ultimately appealed by the County to the Circuit Court, and I don't know if Legal
would like to give some background on that appeal by the County.
Mr. Greco: With regard to the appeal, the -- there were two issues -- really, there
was actually one core issue, and the Court decided two issues. One was whether or
not the two individuals had standing, and the Court found that they did not have
standing, because you had to apply the special injury test, and they did not meet the
standards for that test. The Court also found that the interior of the playhouse was
not designated. So at this point in time, that's the law of the case. I will note that
during the proceedings that lead up to that appeal, I read all the transcripts that
were in the last few years on this case, and I think there was unanimity in the fact
that, on both sides that the interior had not been designated. And I would also
point out that under the rules that govern HEP, designations of the interior have to
be done in specific detail on the report.
Chair Russell: So it would be your recommendation that we not make any ruling or
direction to the applicant or to the appellant with regard to the interior?
Mr. Greco: Yes.
Chair Russell: It's been settled under higher --?
Mr. Greco: My recommendation would be that that has --
Chair Russell: Understood.
Mr. Greco: -- already been decided by the Courts.
Chair Russell: And that has to do with number of seats, saving presidium or
elements; all of that's not within our preview at this juncture?
Mr. Greco: Correct.
Chair Russell: Okay.
Commissioner Hardemon: One more second. So with the minutes that refer to the
structure, are you saying that "structure" means the exterior walls, including a
roof, and not the interior? Or is structure to be taken as the --from the minutes;
not from the ruling, but from the minutes as the interior plus all of the exterior
walls?
Mr. Greco: That's probably, in part, a question for Historic Presentation, because
now you're getting into the details of what that statutes means on a historic
preservation level, but certainly, in terms of the specific items inside that were the
subject of this hearing previously, I would say that those are outside the bounds of
what the Commission can do. But in terms of what "interior" means, if it extends to
the walls -- or the shell, I guess, is really what we're talking about -- I would
(UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Mr. Adams: I would argue that the interior and the exterior walls are two separate
things. I would argue that you have the four walls, which includes the interior of
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the building.
Commissioner Hardemon: Say that again.
Mr. Adams: I would argue that the exterior walls are different from the interior of
the building. So you have four exterior walls effectively and a roof, and you have
the elements on the interior of the building.
Commissioner Hardemon: So are you saying that the four exterior walls and a
roof would be a structure? Is that what you're saying?
Mr. Adams: Yes, possibly. If you're talking about structural, there may be some
interior walls that are structural as well, but in terms of historic preservation, I
would say the exterior walls and the roof, yes.
Commissioner Hardemon: And what if there are interior pillars that hold up the
roof?
Mr. Adams: Well, again -- and it was recogni -- or it was stated that, you know,
when the original designation was done that the interior had no significance, and
that again was --
Commissioner Hardemon: But by "interior, " you're saying stage, chairs, things of
that nature, or -- I mean, are you describing what would be something that would
essentially hold up a structural component?
Mr. Adams: My understanding is that the determination was made that the interior
of the building -- everything in there was notprotected.
Commissioner Hardemon: Understood.
Chair Russell: So -- thank you -- and then -- so we're past a higher court
overruling what this body did at that point. Where did we go from there?
Mr. Adams: Well, that then puts you back to the Historic Preservation Board's
approval, because, effectively, the appeal was negated. In 2018, the building was
added to the National Register of Historic Places. The building was added by the
Division of Historical Resources. They actually prepared the Designation Report
and submitted it for review. So that was then added to the National Register in
October 2018. And then not long after that, and as directed by the Preservation
Board, the County submitted effectively what were costs to finalize plans. The
original plans in 2017 were more of concept; this is what we would like to do. But
the application submitted in 2018 was for the finalized plans. Now, the application
submitted in 2018 did not include an application for demolition, and the County's
premise was that the demolition had been approved in 2017, as was stated in the
resolution that was issued in 2017. So the application was for restoration of the
front building, construction of a new auditorium, and construction of a parking
garage and exterior spaces.
Chair Russell: But how can they do construction of an auditorium without
demolition?
Commissioner Reyes: That's right.
Mr. Adams: Well, the County was of the opinion that the demolition was approved
in 2017, per the resolution.
Chair Russell: Do you have that resolution handy?
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Mr. Adams: I do.
Chair Russell: I believe it was one of the last two or three conditions of the
resolution that states the intention of the HEP Board with regard to coming back
and what that means. Could you clam that for us, what the HEP Board --?
Mr. Adams: Yeah, and this is what I was actually leading to. So my review was
based on the premise that the demolition had been approved as the County had
applied for that, which was restoration of the front building, construction of a new
auditorium and construction of a parking garage, and that's what we moved ahead
with and recommended approval of. The 2017 resolution stated: "The resolution of
the Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board, approving with
conditions an application for a Special Certificate of Appropriateness for the
master site plan to include the partial demolition of an existing structure, the
reconstruction of a theater, and the new construction of a parking garage with
residential units at the individually designated historic site known as the Coconut
Grove Playhouse. " And the board were of the opinion that two of the conditions
that they have imposed at this time did not actually approve the demolition. And
the two conditions that -- and they refer to were Condition Number 11: `No
demolition permit will be issued until the plan comes back to the HEP and is
approved; and Condition Number 12: "The concept that is being approved in this
plan is in concept only. The HEP has the preview to require different
configurations, heights, setbacks, et cetera, for the development of each individual"
(UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Chair Russell: Could you read Condition 13 as well, please? That seems to be
relevant.
Mr. Adams: Condition 13 is: `All the buildings will come collectively in one
application to the HEP. "
Chair Russell: So meaning, it seems their direction is that on -- when -- I know it's
not traditionally done this way, to come twice for an item. It was sort of a sneak
peek where they test the waters, and then they came back, but they were directed to
come back with regard to all buildings collectively?
Mr. Adams: Yes.
Chair Russell: And their subsequent application did refer to the new auditorium as
well, correct?
Mr. Adams: Yes.
Chair Russell: So they were addressing all of the structures on the site, what they
intended to do?
Mr. Adams: The recent application, yes.
Chair Russell: Got it. And that's what was denied by the HEP Board?
Mr. Adams: That's what was denied.
Chair Russell: And that's what they're here to appeal?
Mr. Adams: That's -- the argument being, was the demolition effectively approved
in 2017, or was it still open for the HEP to actually come back and effectively deny
the application, because it did not meet the -- -- in their opinion, it did not meet the
Secretary of the Interior Standards?
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Chair Russell: Thank you. And that brings us to today, where now I will hand it
over to the appellant to present their case.
Commissioner Reyes: Can I ask a question?
Chair Russell: Of course. I apologize.
Commissioner Reyes: Sure.
Chair Russell: Is there anyone who'd like -- before --? And after they present, we
will definitely go into discussion, ask questions of our staff --
Commissioner Reyes: That's right. But just --
Chair Russell: -- anyone we want.
Commissioner Reyes: -- want to -- I want to clarify, because I've been hearing that
the history of the auditor -- of the theater and the auditorium, and all that, but I
don't know if I'm correct or not. Had that auditorium been -- it's the original one
from the -- since it was built, or it was remodeled and rebuilt during the later
years?
Mr. Adams: The auditorium has been remodeled from its original
(UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Commissioner Reyes: So it's not the original historic one, right?
Chair Russell: No, the interior.
Mr. Adams: The interior.
Commissioner Reyes: The interior. The interior hasn't -- is not -- has not -- is not
the original?
Mr. Adams: There are elements from the various periods, but it was all
(UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Commissioner Reyes: But it is not precisely the same that it was built before?
Mr. Adams: No.
Chair Russell: No.
Commissioner Reyes: It has gone through renovation and addition and
subtraction; whatever it is?
Mr. Adams: Yes.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay, okay. I just wanted to make sure that it's not the
original building.
Chair Russell: But the exterior of the --
Commissioner Reyes: The exterior, yes.
Chair Russell: -- was not altered.
Commissioner Reyes: Exactly.
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Mr. Adams: The exterior, there have been some additions added over time.
Commissioner Reyes: That's right.
Mr. Adams: But the original theater, effectively, is still there within the --
Commissioner Reyes: I just want to clarify in my mind that that is not the original
building.
Chair Russell: No. It is the original building --
Commissioner Reyes: No, no. The auditorium --
Chair Russell: -- but the interior has been changed many times.
Commissioner Reyes: The interior has been changed many times.
Chair Russell: And we're not dealing with the interior here at all today is basically
what I understand from our City Attorney.
Commissioner Reyes: But --
Chair Russell: That is off limits to us because of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Commissioner Reyes: You mean the interior or the auditorium? The auditorium --
Chair Russell: The interior of the auditorium. The interior of the entire structure
is not for us to direct or decide, or grant or deny. We are simply --
Commissioner Reyes: But if we don't demolish the interior of the auditorium, how
are you going to build a new one?
Chair Russell: You could -- well, theoretically --
Commissioner Reyes: I mean, that is --
Chair Russell: -- what we're talking about is the exterior --
Commissioner Reyes: -- a question.
Chair Russell: -- structure and whether (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Commissioner Reyes: The exterior structure that -- what -- from what I have
gathered is going to be preserved, the fagade and all of that. The exterior is going
to be preserved. That's what is proposed, right?
Chair Russell: No.
Commissioner Reyes: And -- well, then I'm confused, because that's what heard.
Chair Russell: The exterior structure of the theater will also be demolished in the
County plan. The entire building will come down --
Commissioner Reyes: The whole building will come down?
Chair Russell: -- of the theater.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
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Chair Russell: The front lobby building, which is attached, but you could see it as
a separate --
Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
Chair Russell: -- there is a joining there.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay. Now let me hear what you're going to do, and what
are you going to demolish, and what you're going to keep.
Dennis Kerbel: Yes.
Commissioner Hardemon: But before you get into your demolition plan, I want to -
- I don't know if this is -- if I missed the Jennings disclosure period, but I'd like to
disclose that I've met with various parties regarding this issue, so I -- which
include the presenters; Mr. Springs, our County Mayor, our City Mayor, et cetera.
So we've talked about this issue significantly, so I want to make sure I put that on
the record so that it's very clear that we've heard from other individuals and
individuals regarding this matter.
Chair Russell: Commissioner Gort had a comment or question.
Vice Chair Gort: The -- when you addressing the minutes, are you talking about
the minutes of the meeting that tookplace on December 14, 2017?
Mr. Adams: Sorry?
Vice Chair Gort: When you addressed the minutes --
Mr. Adams: Right.
Vice Chair Gort. -- because we had another appeal in 2000 -- December 14, 2017.
Mr. Adams: That was the appeal which I think we discussed.
Vice Chair Gort. Right.
Mr. Adams: It was appealed by two (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Vice Chair Gort. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- is this whatyou're addressing?
Mr. Adams: That is my --
Chair Russell: No.
Vice Chair Gort: This -- No? Okay.
Chair Russell: We addressed the minutes of the 2005 designation.
Vice Chair Gort: Well, I'll ask the questions later (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Chair Russell: Okay. All right. Any other questions for Warren -- Mr. Adams --
before we proceed with the appellant? Good afternoon.
Mr. Kerbel: Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, Commissioners. Dennis Kerbel, Assistant
County Attorney, with offices at 111 Northwest 1st Street. I am proud to represent
Miami -Dade County on this great project. Before I get into my comments, I do
want to address a couple of the preliminary matters that it seems the board was
interested in, just so that we're all clear about what we're talking about here.
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First, Mr. Adams had mentioned what we applied for in this application. I just
wanted to point out that in our application form, we did check off "demolition, " but
he's correct that our contention is that it was previously approved. I'll get into that
later. The other thing I wanted to point out is the proposal is to completely restore
the iconic front building, to demolish -- and to demolish the rear -- what had been
the auditorium building, so I wanted to make sure that everybody was clear about
that. And I asked for the transcript and the minutes of the 2005 designation. We
agree and have proceeded under the conclusion that the entire site was designated
historic. We --our rate of it --and I think counsel confirmed this --only the iconic
front building was declared architecturally significant. There was no architectural
significance to the rear building; our plans have proceeded accordingly, and as has
been confirmed, the interior was not preserved in that report. And so, our view is,
with all due respect to former member Parrish, that transcript did not mean what
he thought it meant, and we are not contending that the entire site is not
designated. We agree that the whole thing was designated, but we think that our
plans are consistent with the designation. So we are here to ask you to correct the
manifest error of the Historic and Environmental Presentation Board when it
rejected the County's plan to restore the Coconut Grove Playhouse. I'm joined by
several others, who I will introduce in a moment, but first, County Mayor Carlos
Gimenez would like to address you and provide a few remarks.
Chair Russell: Thank you. Good afternoon, Mayor.
Mayor Carlos Gimenez: Thankyou very much. Carlos Gimenez, Mayor ofMiami-
Dade County, 111 Northwest 1st Street, Miami. That's my business address.
However, I've been a resident of Coconut Grove for 26 years, so I'm pretty familiar
with what goes on in the Grove. I want to thank you for scheduling this special
meeting to focus on the Coconut Grove Playhouse. I want you to know that I spoke
with Congressman [sic] Frederica Wilson on Monday of this week. We agreed to
work together to creatively address her ideas for a Bahamian Cultural Center in
Coconut Grove. However, today, there is only one issue before you today. I'm
here to request that you grant our appeal and overturn the Historic and
Environmental Presentation Board's decision, denying us, Miami -Dade County, the
ability to move forward with our project to restore the Coconut Grove Playhouse.
And if anybody knows my history, especially here in Miami -- in the City of Miami,
they know that I love history. And actually, during my time as City Manager, we
were able to save historical structures in the City of Miami; move them to parks
when they were scheduled for demolition. And there's really no greater example of
my love of history and history of this City than this chamber that we're in today. If
you go outside, there is a plaque that talks about the restoration of this chamber;
my name's on it. I was the City Manager when this project started. We restored
this great chamber to get back the historical aspects of what this used to be. This
used to be the PanAm Flight Center. This is where you bought your tickets, et
cetera. There used to be a globe that sat right there. We didn't restore that. We
didn't restore that because if we had, it would have destroyed the functionality of
this chamber, because it has a new purpose now, which is to be a -- the City Hall.
Ifyou look up there, there's a blue line, and then above thatyou'll see like a gray --
blue/gray, pink. Actually, that was a walkway. That was open. We didn't restore
that either. On top -- the windows that you see up there, I was the guy that
discovered them. They were hidden behind drywall. And this dais that you see
here was all Formica. So the original also did not have, I don't believe, this wall
back here. And so, the reason I'm saying is that, yeah, I love history. I also love
functionality. And the facts of the matter is that we're trying to restore what's
architecturally significant for this playhouse, but the playhouse itself -- the
auditorium, the inside, which we already have heard is not significantly -- is not
historically significant, does not work. The shell will not work for a new theater,
but that's why we've come forward with our plan. There's only one plan for the
Coconut Grove Playhouse. People may come and say, "We have this plan. We
have that plan. We have this other plan. I've got this great thing. I've got all
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these" -- I have all these estimates of how much it's going to cost, " and that
would have been a great -- it was really great speech, and it would have moved me,
had I not heard it for four years about how they were going to raise money and how
-- you know, "Don't worry; we'll raise the money, and we'll get a 700 -seat theater,
and we can do all these things. " Well, this Commission, back in December of
2017, gave that gentleman 90 days to raise $20 million. How much did he raise?
Zero. That same gentleman came tome about four years ago, having the same plan
-- By the way, he was going to tear down the playhouse. He was going to build a
new 700 -seat theater and a 300 -seat theater. It wasn't anything about restoring the
playhouse; it was just a 700 -seat theater. This was what the aim has been all
along. And so, in the interest of compromise, I said, "Sure. You know, I have no
problem in building a bigger theater. We only have the money to build a 300 -seat
theater in this plan. This plan, we can actually accomplish, and we need to
reactivate the theater in Coconut Grove. But if you're able to raise a couple
million dollars, we will pursue side-by-side planning and drawings and
architecturals, which gives you time to raise the money to bring the bigger project
in. " You want to guess how much money was raised? Okay. Do I have to say it?
Nothing. Nothing was raised. And so, I've been listening to this for four years;
promises after promises after promises that, somehow, we have this great plan that
they can come and bring to fruition. There's an old saying, "Fool me once, shame
on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. " I've heard this story before, when the Arsht
Center was being built. The original estimate for the Arsht Center was supposed to
be about $200 million. The private sector was supposed to raise a lot of money.
And it wasn't supposed to be on us, the public, to bear the brunt of the Arsht Center.
It ended up costing $500 million. Now, as Commissioner, I voted for the increased
funding. Why? Because it was half -way built. And so, they had us. And I also
think that the Arsht Center is a great thing for this community, so I would have
voted for it anyway, and I did vote for it; and I was a champion of that, and I got
criticized for it, for making that vote. In this occasion, I will not go that far. We
have $23 million; 15 million was voted on by the people of Miami -Dade County in
2004; 15. Five million is actually CDT (Convention Development Tax) money that
we put away, and we have about 2 million that came from a foundation grant, and
then we have also income from the parking that's happening there. There's about
$23 million. The County and FIU are the only ones, the only ones, with a 99 year
lease for this property. We're the only ones with more than the 23 million required
to accomplish this project; the only one with money on the table, willing to spend it.
And this is the only plan that has an adopted and valuable business plan to operate
the playhouse that requires no government subsidy, no government subsidy. Every
other cultural institution that we have around here requires government subsidy. I
think the Arsht Center requires about 6 million, 7, $8 million a year. Our own
Cultural Center down in South Grove -- South Dade, how much? $3 million a year.
And so, these are not, you know, cheap things to run. These cultural centers
actually -- and cultural facilities actually cost money, but you know what? I believe
in it. I believe in them. I think they're vital to our community. They're vital to our
quality of life, and it's worth the investment. We have developed a beautiful project
that accomplishes all of these -- all of the goals that we established for the
playhouse. It restores the entire 1927 front building, it celebrates the playhouse
historic architecture, and it brings back the historically significant use to the site of
great theater. You can take a look at the picture here. I don't know if you guys can
see it -- the Commission can see it. On the left is what the playhouse looks like
today. As you can see, what we're going to do, we're going to restore it back to its
1927 -- not only look, but color. That's actually the original color back in 1927.
That is the architecturally significant portion of the playhouse. That is what we
identify as the playhouse. Make no mistake; this is a historic preservation project.
The City's Historic Preservation staff -- the City's, your staff, as well as the
County's -- have analyzed the project and find it complies with historic preservation
principles. In addition, our project also revitalizes the important gateway, the
downtown Coconut Grove, and addresses the long-standing needs of the businesses
in the Grove. This place has been shut down for 15 years? I think it's been shut
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down almost as long as I was a Commissioner, back in 2004. And so, we received,
you know, important input from many stakeholders, and used these suggestions to
make our project better. Our door was always open. Our door was always open.
We had countless meetings with people that wanted something different. We
always listened to them. But at the end, you got to put your money where your
mouth is. And you know what? Not one cent came. Now, the project connects to
and welcomes the West Grove and protects the integrity of the adjacent residential
neighborhood. On these "before" and "after" pictures, you can see what residents
of the West Grove see today and how our project will transform these views. So on
top, you can see this is Images 2 and 3. These are from Williams and from Charles
Avenue. This is what it looks like today. And what we're talking about is that white
building on top. That's where the auditorium is right now; which, by the way, is not
the original, because it's been added to. There's added elements to that that were
not part of the 1927 auditorium; they had to. They had to change it, because it was
originally built as a silent movie theater and then converted to something else and
then converted to something else, and then converted to something else. On the
bottom, that's the view that our residents will see. It is designed with plazas,
landscaping, and paseos to be a seamless part of the village ambiance in the
Grove. There's another image coming up; it shows you the village, and it shows
you what it will look like; much better than what we have today. And for all these
reasons -- You know, there is massive, popular support for this project. There have
been very -- some very, very vocal opponents of our project, but I don't believe that
they represent what the majority of residents in the Grove want. And you may have
seen, you know, what Ben Dixon, his poll that he -- I guess he voiced it before; I
wasn't here, but I understand that he put it before you. And by the way, that was
not in way, shape, or form endorsed or paid for by -- or commissioned by Miami -
Dade County. Maybe some people think it was, but it wasn't. We had nothing to
do with that poll. In the survey of likely voters in District 2, conducted in April, 78
percent said they supported the County's project to redevelop the Coconut Grove
Playhouse. That's 78 percent. The County/FIU Plan has been endorsed by the
Coconut Grove Business Improvement District, the Coconut Grove Village Council,
and the Dade Heritage Trust Board of Directors. The Knight Foundation has
awarded the County $2 million for this specific project. Your own regulatory
boards, including your Urban Development Review Board and the Planning, the
Zoning and Appeals Board, have approved this project. We've been trying to get
this project approved for more than two years, and we faced a number of
roadblocks, none of which were of our making. It's roadblock after roadblock after
roadblock, but we have persisted, because it's the right thing to do, and we want to
see this project get done in this community. Today, it's the last opportunity that we
have to make this a reality. We're not here to be further delayed. We're not
compromised, or have any new conditions placed on the project. We've been at this
for along, longtime. And every time we say, "yes," another hurdle gets put in our
way. And I'm sorry; again, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on
me. Over the past two years, we have listened hard, and we have made changes to
make the project better. We are ready to go; make no mistake about it. If this
project does not move forward today just as proposed, your -- the $23 million that
we have are in jeopardy. We're also -- the lease that we have is in jeopardy too,
because we have certain timetables that the State has placed before us to get
something done here and move forward. And it's not just something done;
something great done here. You know, I did commit to you that if you approved our
appeal, we will submit our completed architectural drawings to your Building
Department for a permit and bid the project for construction as quickly as possible.
Choice is simple: Approve our project or nothing happens. Believe me, nothing
will happen to this playhouse for years and years and years to come. It's no
exaggeration. As suggested, the State will sell the property to the highest bidder.
And your next decision, years from now, will be framed by a building demolished
by neglect and the developer ready to replace it with the highest and best use. You
can bet that it will not be a theater. You know, approve our project. Please
approve our project, and history is celebrated, theater is returned to the Grove for
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our families and kids, and businesses in the Grove will benefit and thrive. Thank
you very much.
(Applause)
Chair Russell: Please, hold your applause. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Kerbel: Thank you again, Commissioners, for the opportunity to bring this
appeal to you. Now I'm going to explain the legal basis of our appeal, and then I'll
turn it over to Jorge Hernandez, who is our Historic Preservation Architect, who
will present the plans for the project. Mr. Hernandez will show that the County's
plan not only meets the standards of your Code for a Certificate of
Appropriateness, but also that the County's plan is the right one from the
perspectives of historic preservation and community involvement. And for all the
talk that we've had today, the plan is entirely consistent with a $50 million -- $15
million bond referendum that the voters approved back in 2004. That is also, of
course, not one of the factors that is properly before you today under the Certificate
of Appropriateness standards. Michael Spring, the Director of Cultural Affairs;
Sarah Cote, the County's Historic Preservation Chief,• and representatives from
FIU, the Miami Parking Authority, and Arquitectonica are also on hand today to
answer any questions. As your attorney had previously mentioned, your charge
today is really a narrow one. This is not a zoning hearing. This is not a decision to
approve a lease. This is not a procurement decision. We have heard the concerns
from Congresswoman Frederica Wilson and others regarding creative tourism,
community and economic development, workforce opportunities, education,
training, and entrepreneurship, and the desire to commemorate the Bahamian
community. These are all worthy goals. The Mayor -- you've heard the Mayor
commit to working on programmatic matters to address, in particular, the
Representative's concerns, but this very narrow historic preservation hearing is not
the appropriate forum within which to address those issues. And we understand
why many people want to make this proceeding about more than it is. This is an
important project in so many ways. And people have nostalgia for the playhouse.
We have acknowledged that, we have accepted it, and we have, as the Mayor
mentioned, incorporated that community input in formulating our plans. But again,
the only question that is legally before you is, "Does the County's plan to restore
the Coconut Grove Playhouse meet the specific standards for a special Certificate
of Appropriateness under your historic preservation ordinance?" When reviewed
under the applicable standards, and only the applicable standards, free from non -
historic preservation considerations that others have attempted to insert into this
proceeding, there's no question that it meets those standards. This is a great
project that restores great dramatic theater to Coconut Grove in a new facility that
is sensitive to the West Grove and the surrounding properties that fully restores the
architecturally significant front building, and that honors the historic use of this
site as a working theater. The Court has already decided that it violates the law to
use this proceeding, the Certificate of Appropriateness process, to try to regulate
the interior of the building, and as we have previously discussed, that is beyond the
scope of what had previously been designated. So to expand the hearing now to
consider these additional issues that have been raised would also be even more
contrary to the legal standard that you're charged with enforcing. And as the
Mayor noted, there is no other plan. This board does not have a choice among
alternatives. It is, quite frankly, outrageous that in the middle of a quasi-judicial
hearing, someone else, who has no legal right to the property, has taken it upon
himself to submit additional alternative plans for this board to consider. There is
no other plan. No other plan has received preliminary approval from the HEP
Board to demolish the auditorium building. No other plan has been reviewed and
approved by the City's Coordinated Review Committee. No other plan has been
reviewed and approved by the City's Urban Design Review Board. No other plan
has been reviewed and approved by the Planning, Zoning and Appeals Board. No
other plan has $23 million in the bank; not pledges, but cash. No other plan is
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supported by the Coconut Grove Business Improvement District and the business
owners. No other plan is supported by the Dade Heritage Trust. No other plan has
received the endorsement and funding from the Knight Foundation. And finally, no
other plan has the professional recommendation of both the City Historic
Preservation staff and the County Historic Preservation staff. We also had heard --
not in this proceeding, but earlier in the week, in the news reports -- suggestions
about bifurcating the parking garage from the theater, and we just want to remind
you, consistent with the condition that Mr. Adams read, this is a packaged deal.
What is before you is a theater, plus the garage, and they're not severable. The
County and FIU's lease with the State is to develop a theater, and the parking
garage is only a supporting element. So we are here today because the HEP Board
denied the County a final Certificate of Appropriateness to complete the very
project that the HEP Board gave preliminary approval to nearly two years ago. In
April 2017, the HEP Board approved the County's plan to restore the playhouse,
and that resolution, as Mr. Adams had noted, expressly approved an application to
include the partial demolition of an existing structure, the reconstruction of a
theater, and new construction of a parking garage at this location. So while that
approval had the condition that we return to the HEP Board with final design
plans, in our view, the HEP Board already decided that demolition of the
auditorium building was appropriate. The only question was, "What was it going
to look like when we were finished?" The approved plan did call for the complete
restoration of the iconic front building, but it also very clearly included
demolishing the auditorium, and it's important to repeat that. So that's what we
did. In March 2019, we went back to the HEP Board for final approval. The
purpose of that HEP Board hearing should have been to review the finer points of
the County's detailed plans, which were premised on that prior approval to
demolish the auditorium building and replace it with a new theater. And we know
our final plans contain no more demolition than what in the master plan that the
HEP Board approved in 2017. But rather than actually consider the historic
preservation merits of our detailed plans, the HEP Board did an about face and,
instead, demanded that the County preserve the auditorium building. Our appeal
letters lays this out in more detail, why it was legally improper, but I'll give you the
highlights, and there are four main reasons. First, the HEP Board engaged in
improper reconsideration of that April 2017 permission to demolish the building.
The HEP Board's own Rules of Procedure provide that a decision granting a
Certificate of Appropriateness cannot be considered where, as here, the applicants
expended considerable money in detrimental reliance upon the prior approval, or if
reconsideration would violate the applicant's due process rights. Both things have
happened here. Over the last two years, we have spent over a million dollars of
public funds to develop the final plans and to obtain all the required City approvals
in reliance on the HEP Board's prior permission, which included replacing the
auditorium building with a new state-of-the-art Twenty -First Century dramatic
theater. And at this point, for the record, I'd like to introduce, and for your perusal,
a brief spread sheet that shows the $1.1 million of expenditures that the County has
incurred since the 2017 approval. As previously mentioned, these plans have been
through multiple public hearings through the City's land use process. And so,
therefore, the HEP Board's own rules prohibited it from revisiting that 2017
approval to now require the preservation of that auditorium building in its entirety.
Second, the HEP Board improperly attempted to regulate the interior. That's the
only reason to talk about preserving the exterior shell. And now refusing to
approve our plan because it does not preserve the existing auditorium building, the
HEP Board did indirectly what the Court in the prior appeal said could not be done
directly; they required the County to preserve the interior of the auditorium.
There's no other reason. This shell has no architectural significance; it's beyond
dispute, and Jorge Hernandez explained this ably to the HEP Board in great detail.
Only the Kiehnel & Elliott design front building retains architectural significance
and integrity, and the County's plan fully restores that front building, that iconic
building, to its 1927 glory. By contrast, the auditorium building has no
architectural significance. What made it significant was the theatrical use, and
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there's no justification for mandating that the auditorium building be kept, except
as an improper proxy to regulate the interior. But as your counsel noted, the Court
held that the interior is beyond the scope of regulation now. And finally -- this
can't be repeated enough -- in terms of the historic use of the site, the historically
significant use will be restored under the County plan. The County is replacing a
theater with a theater. Third, the HEP Board applied the wrong law. The HEP
Board should have accepted the expert opinions of both the City and County's
Historic Preservation staff that the County's plan meets the Secretary of the Interior
Standards. Instead, the HEP Board looked for a contrary opinion; that of the State
Division of Historical Resources, DHR. We would note -- and we had gone
through more extensive discussions about this below -- DHR does not have
jurisdiction in this area. And in any event, DHR applied the wrong legal standards,
because its analysis was based on the National Register of Historic Places
submission, not the governing 2005 Local Designation Report. The National
Register is undoubtedly a great honor; we are blessed with it, but it is not law. And
it is legally improper to base your decision on the National Register document,
because the National Register is not the governing regulation. Why does it matter?
What's the difference? The difference is that the DHR opinion and the National
Register document dealt with the interior, which is beyond the scope of the
regulations that govern this proceeding. Simply, DHR was wrong, and they made
that wrong opinion based on -- not based on the law that actually governs here. I
had previously mentioned, but I want to repeat it in this context. You've heard from
former HEP Board Member, Andrew Parrish, who appeared at numerous hearings
to introduce the transcript of the 2005 hearing, but whatever the transcript
includes, there's no question that the final action of the HEP Board was to approve
the Designation Report, and there's no question that that report did not preserve
the interior. That's what the Court found, that's now the law of the case, and as
counsel has instructed -- has advised, that is the law that you are bound to follow.
And as Jorge Hernandez explained to the HEP Board, his year-long, methodical
and detailed research confirmed that leaving out the interior was the correct result.
The interior, long ago, lost whatever historical integrity; not structural integrity.
You've heard people say that we're trying to demolish this, because it lacks
structural integrity; we're not. What we're saying is that it lacks historical
integrity, and Jorge Hernandez' very detailed, methodical research, which we will
spare you the details of, unless you really want to hear it, confirmed that. But even
on its own terms, DHR's analysis is wrong, as the County's Historic Preservation
Chief, Sarah Cote, explained to the HEP Board in the appeal materials that are
submitted to you here, as well. Essentially, to comply with DHR's opinion, we
would have to reconstruct the original 1927 silent movie house interior design, but
that configuration has not existed for 60 years. In other words, DHR would make
the County create a Disney World-esque replica, and that may be many things, but
it is not historic preservation. So it was improper to deny the application based on
DHR's legally and factually wrong analysis, to disregard the recommendations of
the City's own professional staff, and to fish around for a contrary opinion. And
other than that opinion, there is no competent substantial evidence in the record
counter to the County's plan. And finally, the HEP Board violated the County's due
process, because as we've spelled out on our appeal letter, the Vice Chair was
biased, and the leadership of the Vice Chair tainted the entire proceeding. My
colleague and I have been accused of acting improperly for extensively questioning
the Vice Chair about the communications she disclosed at the outset of a hearing.
My colleagues' questioning was soft-spoken and methodical, and he was at all
times respectful. If the exchange seemed uncomfortable, it was because what the
Vice Chair had done was improper. She was sitting as a judge, as you all are here
today. The law required her to be impartial, to consider our application with an
open mind, and to base her decision only on the materials that were presented
during the hearing. But what our questioning revealed was that over the life of this
application, she had been engaged in a continuous, long-standing, and
inappropriate series of communications with objectors outside of the hearing, and
her communications were only with the objectors. She was conspiring with the
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people that opposed this project to find ways to undermine it. She even spent a
year communicating with DHR to get their opinion; the opinion that she then, on
the eve of our first round at the HEP Board in February before we were deferred,
she then asked the HEP Board to request from DHR, knowing full well what was in
it. And then she used the letter, which DHR then submitted, as the basis for her
motion. There is simply no version of due process that allows the judge to conspire
with objectors to torpedo the matter that that judge is deciding. And so, we did not
relish the opportunity, but it was our obligation to pursue that due process
violation, and make sure that it was clear on the record to preserve the rights that
we had to an impartial hearing, because we are here before you like any other
applicant.
Commissioner Hardemon: So you don't object to any of the communication that
we've had with objectors and supporters of your application? Because, you know,
we were --just made a Jennings disclosure, so I just want to make sure that I get
you on the record effectively saying that you don't object to any of those
communications.
Mr. Kerbel: Yes, Commissioner, that's a hundred percent correct. We do not
object to the fact of the communications. What we objected to was the nature and
extent of what we had learned about. And so, yes, that's why we have not made any
other objections against any other board member. These were unique and
troubling, and it is a manifest error that only this board can now correct. So these
are the principal legal reasons why we've taken this appeal. But just as
importantly, we want you to see the plans for the project, and to hear from Jorge
Hernandez, our Historic Preservation project expert, about the merits of the
County's plan to restore the playhouse, and why it's not only consistent with your
standards, but it is the right plan for this community. In the interest of time, we
would like to incorporate by reference the entire record that we made below at the
HEP Board, so as not to have to repeat it here, but we are happy to answer any
questions to that level of detail. And with that, I will turn it over to Mr. Hernandez,
and the rest of our team will be available for any questions.
Chair Russell: Before we go to the actual plans themselves, you raised several
things that I'd like to address -- and maybe my colleagues have some questions as
well -- with regard to the appeal, and -- let's address those first, I think, before
getting into the plan, just to make sure we're all on the same page of what it is that
we are deciding. I guess I can start from the last part going back. You had
mentioned that the Vice Chair conspired with DHR to torpedo your application; is
that correct?
Mr. Kerbel: With DHR, but more importantly, with the Heisenbottle Group. We
have records reflecting that she had had communications, and particularly with
Mr. Gonzdlez, and we had gone into that with detail over the course of the year
before the hearing.
Chair Russell: And were these communications more than finding of fact and
asking questions, or was it trying to influence? Is that the accusation?
Mr. Kerbel: Yes.
Chair Russell: Which?
Mr. Kerbel: It was -- it's the latter. It was trying -- it was her trying to encourage
their participation to counter -- to object to our project.
Chair Russell: And you -- so you have evidence of Lynn Lewis directly writing to
DHR and suggesting to them the way they should opine?
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Mr. Kerbel: We have -- what we have is an email from Lynn Lewis. Originally, in
her position, she wrote not as a member of the HEP Board, but as a private citizen,
asking for their opinion. We introduced this into the record below, but I have a --
my copy of it here. And then we later have -- she has constant communications
with DHR about this project. She has then a motion that's made in February of
2019 from -- in front of the HEP Board to ask the HEP Board to solicit an opinion
from DHR. It was a blanket motion; one we, of course, had no objection to. We
didn't have any objection to the asking of the opinion. But then after the hearing, at
a time at which we could no longer opine or object, or comment, we discovered
through those -- through a public records request that she had pre -written
questions, very loaded questions, that she then submitted to Mr. Adams and asked
him to send those questions to DHR, and those are the questions that DHR then
answered in their opinion.
Chair Russell: Oh, so she did it through the Preservation Officer?
Mr. Kerbel: Well, at the last part. The original communications were between her
and Mr. -- and Dr. Parsons and numerous people at DHR. I can get the names for
you.
Chair Russell: Got it. Commissioner Gort.
Vice Chair Gort: Let me -- I have to tell you, sometimes -- Lynn Lewis my
appointment to that board, she's a very dedicated person. She use -- been in Miami
all her life, and she loves this City. Sometimes I might not agree on some of her
opinions, but I can tell you, she's a great person, and she does a great work for the
City of Miami.
Mr. Kerbel: Commissioner Gort --
Vice Chair Gort: So -- and I want to make sure we don't have misunderstanding.
Mr. Kerbel: -- this is in no way personal. This is in no way personal. We
regretted having to do that, but we needed to make the record for the appeal.
Vice Chair Gort: Just like we do here; we receive information from everyone, and
we might receive something here, which I don't. I'm welcome to give my phone to
anybody, and they can look at it
Chair Russell: Try to seek fact.
Vice Chair Gort: But we get facts all the time. I mean, now we ask all kinds of
questions that we need to ask. Sometimes -- I mean, I have some documents in here
that's going to help me, and I had to get it from the City Attorney's -- City Clerk's
Office.
Chair Russell: So beyond the reputation of a board member, for us, it's important
to clear the air, and I want to understand whether or not a board member should
have recused them self [sic], and so we can ask a couple questions here. But
beyond that, this is a de novo hearing, so in a sense, it becomes a little bit
irrelevant, the vote and the vote count at the HEP Board level that brought us here,
except for the fact that it became a denial and that you are here, but we are hearing
this de novo. So whether or not her vote counted or shouldn't have counted, at this
point you are before us, and we can make the decision de novo, of new.
Mr. Kerbel: Yes, and we are not disputing that. And Commissioner Gort, to your
point, again, it's not the fact of the communication. This was not personal, but the
extent -- and I have been practicing in this area, advising the County Commission
on matters like this for over 16 years, and the extent of those communications is
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beyond anything I had ever seen.
Chair Russell: It's a pretty strong accusation, so I just want to clarify from our
City Attorney or our Preservation staff, whoever was present at those meetings, if
they believe or -- I don't know if he should opine on that -- the Vice Chair, should
they have recused them -- was there a conflict of interest or a bias --?
Denise Galvez Turros: Can I say something?
Chair Russell: We al --
Ms. Turros: I'm on the HEP Board; I was there, and I just want to dispute what
he's saying, just really quickly.
Chair Russell: No.
Ms. Turros: She never used any of that information to influence anybody --
Chair Russell: Just a moment. I'm sorry.
Ms. Turros: -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here to say that.
Chair Russell: We haven't entered you into the record, and I don't think it's the
right --
Ms. Turros: Okay.
Chair Russell: I know you want to defend a fellow board member.
Ms. Turros: With your permission.
Chair Russell: I understand, but let me ask -- our staff is, I think, the more
appropriate way. I apologize.
Mr. Adams: The board had requested that I reach out to the State to basically ask
how the proposal may affect the National Register's standing of the building. The
building was -- the application for the National Register was submitted by the
State, and it was approved and added to the National Register. So I feel it's
appropriate that if a Historic Preservation board member has questions regarding
the National Register standing of a building that those questions are submitted to
the State for an answer, and that's why I submitted those questions.
Chair Russell: Understood. Thank you. So let's not deal with the Vice Chair
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) situation, because I don't think -- at the end of the day, I think
it's important to have aired this, but we're not getting into the specifics of what
those correspondences were. I'd like to move on.
Mr. Kerbel: I want to make just one final point about this, and it goes to
Commissioner Gort's concern. The other reason is, it's not the fact of the
communications; the extent of the communications was only with objectors. That
was the other thing. She -- we had offered to take on a site visit. We had offered
publicly available information. We were the only people that she sent a note to the
City Attorney saying, "This is a quasi-judicial matter. I should not read this
outside of the hearing. " So she refused our information, which was a public
website, but she felt free to coordinate with objectors, and it was -- the extent of it
was the reason why. I agree with you; I don't want to belabor it. It is part of our
appeal for preservation of the record.
Chair Russell: I feel like it may be one of those things where we're throwing a bit
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of the kitchen sink --
Vice Chair Gort: Yeah.
Chair Russell: -- to try to get it before us, but at the end of the day, I don't believe -
- I don't have a finding that she should have recused herself or that she had
improper communication through our staff. The next question I have, you said that
the County relied on the decision of the HEP Board to spend $1.1 million. In the
2017 decision of the HEP Board -- and I know this is way before -- but I'd like you
to read it so that you can tell me why you feel that this implied that you had full
rights to demolition and -- so that that didn't need to come up again. I -- Number
11 and Number 12 of the conditions of the HEP Board resolution, could you read
those for me? And tell me your interpretation of those as to why you feel that
demolition was a done deal.
Mr. Kerbel: Well, I'll read them first, and then I'll answer.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Mr. Kerbel: Condition 11: "No demolition permit will be issued until the plan
comes back to the HEP Board and is approved. " And what was the other one you
wanted me to read; Number 12?
Chair Russell: 12.
Mr. Kerbel: "The concept that is being approved in this plan is in concept only.
The HEP Board has the purview to require different configurations, heights,
setback, et cetera, for the development of each individual building. "
Chair Russell: So doesn't this basically mean that until you come with a final plan
and that final plan gets total approval, nothing is truly approved, including the
demolition?
Mr. Kerbel: Well, in terms of -- I disagree with that in part. We did not have the
right to go pull a demolition permit, but because we had a resolution expressly
approving the demolition of the structure, we then went and spent considerable
public money to develop detailed plans that were premised on the fact that the
demolition had been approved in concept. Had the board denied that application
and said, "You cannot destroy" -- `you cannot demolish the rear building," we
would have reconfigured -- I don't know actually what we would have done at that
point, because our business plan with the State called for a 300 -seat theater.
Commissioner Hardemon: Mr. Chairman?
Chair Russell: Yes, Commissioner.
Commissioner Hardemon: Help me understand this. So when I look at the
resolution, everything that's in upper case letters, I read it almost like a title,
because it kind of gives you the purview of where things are going. I understand it
is a complete resolution, because there is not much after that, but the vote. And
then -- but the second page is really an explanation, because it's the exhibit for
what is included on the first page. Right? Because this says, A resolution of the
Miami Historic and Environmental Preservation Board approving with
conditions. " And then it says, "attached herein" -- well, "heren" -- I think there's
a misspelling of the word -- of "herein. "
Mr. Min: Sometimes "all caps" does that.
Commissioner Hardemon: So -- yeah. It's hard to read it. "Attached herein as
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Exhibit A. "' Right? And so, when you look to Exhibit A, Exhibit A is the Miami
Historic and Environmental Preservation Board Resolution Number HEPB-R-17-
023, Exhibit "A." And so, there is a resolution approving, with conditions, an
application for Special Certificate of Appropriateness for the master site to include
the partial demolition of an existing structure. You're saying that the existing
structure is the theater.
Mr. Kerbel: The rear auditorium building.
Commissioner Hardemon: Okay.
Mr. Kerbel: Correct.
Commissioner Hardemon: So what is the partial demolition of it? Is that one
wall? Is that two walls? Is that the interior?
Mr. Kerbel: Partial -- well, as we've previously discussed, the interior was beyond
the point of regulation here. Partial demolition because we are preserving the
front -- the iconic front building. We weren't proposing to demolish the entire
structure, so --
Commissioner Hardemon: So --
Mr. Kerbel: --that's --
Commissioner Hardemon: -- but then it says, "The reconstruction of a theater. " Is
there a difference between the reconstruction of a theater and the construction of a
theater?
Mr. Kerbel: Well, it required us to put a theater back there, which is what we're
doing, and we are reconstructing the front building.
Commissioner Hardemon: So by reconstructing the front building, does that mean
completely tearing it down and then building a new front building? Or does that
mean just putting -- or actually taking the existing front building and improving it?
Mr. Kerbel: We --the plans that we had submitted that were approved by the HEP
Board --
Commissioner Hardemon: But the plans --
Mr. Kerbel: --called --
Commissioner Hardemon: --weren't approved, right?
Mr. Kerbel: Well, the -- I should say the concept. There was a site plan that was
attached to this; that was the concept that we had asked them to approve.
Commissioner Hardemon: So all that you gave them was a site plan?
Mr. Kerbel: Well, it's a -- yes, because the idea that had generated from City staff
was rather than come in with a complete application all at once, it was, "Come in
with a concept so that the board can see what you're planning on doing in broad
strokes before you then go through the detail." The detail is what we're here about
today.
Commissioner Hardemon: Right. And so, because the detail is what you
individually came back to them with?
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Mr. Kerbel: Yeah, that's what that Condition 11 required us to go back with.
Commissioner Hardemon: And the -- how many structures are there on that
parcel?
Mr. Kerbel: Let me have the actual architect -- Historic Preservation Architect
answer that.
Jorge Hernandez: So the -- Can you hear me?
Commissioner Hardemon: Yes.
Chair Russell: Your name, please?
Mr. Hernandez: Yes. Jorge Hernandez, 337 Palermo Avenue. So the first
submittal, which we called the `Alaster Plan," was submitted because it is a
complex project.
Commissioner Hardemon: Well, let me direct you a little bit. How many structures
are there on the parcel?
Mr. Hernandez: There are --there is one structure which has three separate parts.
The nature of these parts are so autonomous that we have given them terms, like
the `front building, " the "lobby, " and the "auditorium. " But there is --
Commissioner Hardemon: So -- and that's kind of counter -intuitive to me --
Mr. Hernandez: Wait.
Commissioner Hardemon: -- because if someone said a --
Mr. Hernandez: No. Can I finish? Yes. Then there is a commercial structure,
which was never part -- it's not in that drawing. There's a commercial part --
structure to the right of the wing building, which was never part of the playhouse
during the period of significance. Then there are multiple additions around the
back of the auditorium, which Commissioner Reyes referred to, which were not
part of the original 1927 Kiehnel & Elliot building. And there was a series of
hyphens or connections between some of the original buildings, some of the 1950s
buildings, and some of the 1980s buildings that attached everything. So it's a
rather -- that's why we submitted the master plan. It's a complex quilt of structures.
Commissioner Hardemon: The master plan was submitted in the beginning?
Mr. Hernandez: 2017, and it included not just site plans, but it included elevations
and perspectives.
Commissioner Hardemon: So the part that baffles me is that -- what you described
to me are a number of buildings.
Mr. Hernandez: Hm-hmm.
Chair Russell: Right? Which I would assume a building is a structure. I mean,
your statement is that there is one structure, but then you described multiple
buildings. So to me, it sounds like there are multiple structures.
Mr. Hernandez: There are, except at one point, after the period of significance in
the '80s and '90s, all of them were glued together in a haphazard way, and they
were all used for the function of Coconut Grove Theater.
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Commissioner Hardemon: Of a theater?
Mr. Hernandez: Of a theater.
Commissioner Hardemon: Right, but that's --
Mr. Hernandez: Yes.
Commissioner Hardemon: -- but (UNINTELLIGIBLE) --
Mr. Hernandez: But they're a complexion of different structures from different
times --
Commissioner Hardemon: Okay.
Mr. Hernandez: -- in addition to those structures, and so on and so forth.
Commissioner Hardemon: So when I read this resolution -- I'm just trying to have
an understanding of the resolution -- it says, A site plan to include the partial
demolition of an existing structure" --
Mr. Hernandez: Hm-hmm.
Commissioner Hardemon: -- comma -- "the reconstruction of a theater" -- comma
-- "and the new construction of a parking garage with residential units at the
individually designated historic site and known as the Coconut Grove Playhouse,
located at approximately 3500 Main Highway. " And so, this in no way gives me
any direction for what's described; the number of different structures that are
there; what structure was granted the partial demolition. I don't know. You know,
I'm just reading it from the --
Mr. Hernandez: No, I --
Commissioner Hardemon: -- text. And so, when I turn to Page 2 of it, and I look at
what's written here, and it says that -- it says, in clarification of what's on Page I --
I bring my attention -- I bring everyone's attention to Number 11, which is what the
Chairman was reading earlier -- "No demolition permit will be issued until the
plan comes back to HEP Board and is approved. " Then it says, Number 12, "This
concept is being approved, and this plan is in concept only. The concept that is
being approved in this plan is in concept only. The HEP Board has the purview to
require different configurations, heights, setbacks, et cetera, for the development of
each individual building. " And so, you know, it's like, at best -- it's almost as if
we're saying, "We agree with you that this site needs to be redeveloped. And so, go
out and start the process and then come back. " What I'm -- "Come back to us with
a more defined plan. " That's what I'm reading from this resolution. And in fact,
where it says -- and what I consider to be the title, which is the front page -- where
it says, there's a partial demolition of an existing structure, when it's further
clarified, there's -- there is no -- it says explicitly that no demolition permit will be
issued until the plan comes back and is approved.
Mr. Hernandez: So that submittal, the 2017 submittal, had, along with the text, 16
pages of drawings, and we can share those with you, because a picture is worth a
thousand words, and the words and the drawings made it very clear what the
proposal was, but Mr. Spring may have something to add to that. One second.
Michael Spring: Michael Spring, Miami -Dade County. We actually worked very
closely with your Historic Preservation staff in regard to the 2017 meeting, because
we knew that before we embarked on designing a project, we wanted to be very
clear about the project that we were proposing, so that we would not surprise the
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HEP Board at the end of this process with a fully designed project with demolition
that they had never seen before. So the drawings that we submitted were very
explicit about what was going to be demolished, what was going to be restored and
saved, and what the project would consist of,• hence, the 16 drawings that were
submitted with the submission, as well as our testimony at that HEP Board meeting
in 2017. There was no confusion about what we were proposing. We were
proposing the demolition of the auditorium, the construction of a new 300 -seat
theater, and the full restoration of what we referred to as the "historic front
building. " That was what we proposed, that's what the HEP Board reviewed, and
that's what the resolution reflected in regard to their action. All that -- There was
a concern at the time by the HEP Board, and I believe it was an unfounded
concern, but nonetheless, there has been a significant amount of paranoia about
this project; that in the middle of the night, the County would apply for a
demolition permit, which we assured them -- I assured them on the record that we
would not, but that was added as a condition; that we would not apply for a
demolition permit until we came back with more detailed drawings so that they
could see the details of how we were going to restore that front building, and
incorporate elements from the existing theater into the new theater.
Commissioner Hardemon: So what part of the partial -- the partial demolition
that's explained here, what was your understanding of what the partial demolition
was going to be for?
Mr. Spring: My understanding of what we put on the record was that we -- Jorge
Hernandez explained to the HEP Board at that meeting that the structure that you
see there now on the Coconut Grove Playhouse site is a building made up of three
components; the front building, the lobby, and the auditorium. We were very clear
that we were going to demolish the elements that were characterized as the lobby
and the auditorium. The lobby would become that plaza, crescent-shaped plaza
between the front building and the new theater, and then the auditorium would be
replaced by a newly constructed theater, 300 -seat theater.
Commissioner Hardemon: And so, the third -- that third -- you said the lobby, the
theater, and -- there was another building. So the third building would be
preserved?
Mr. Spring: The front building would be preserved and restored to its 1927 state.
Commissioner Hardemon: The front building, or is it the front facade?
Mr. Spring: Front building. We were very clear about that, and our drawings
were clear about that, as well.
Commissioner Reyes: Excuse me. Sir?
Chair Russell: So I -- I'm sorry.
Commissioner Reyes: Yes, sir. Yes. I want to clary. I asked that question a little
while ago --
Mr. Spring: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Reyes: -- and they -- I was informed that the whole thing was going
to be demolished. And now, from what I understand, the -- what is the front
building, which is the facade, what I see here, is going to be preserved and
restored.
Mr. Spring: That's correct.
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Commissioner Reyes: So the only thing that is going to be demolished is the
auditorium, which has been rebuilt time after time?
Chair Russell: It's never been rebuilt.
Commissioner Reyes: Or have been remodeled.
Chair Russell: Added to.
Commissioner Reyes: Or added to. Well, it's not the original 1927 auditorium.
Mayor Gimenez: If may? IfI may again?
Chair Russell: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Gimenez: In -- on your monitors, you're going to see a picture.
Commissioner Reyes: Yes, sir.
Mayor Gimenez: On the left is the Coconut Grove Playhouse as it is today. On the
right is the Coconut Grove Playhouse as it looked in 1927, and it will look once we
restore it. So there are elements that we have to construct on the building, because
there were elements that were taken away through subsequent, you know,
renovations, et cetera. Some of the comments that we hear is that some people took
-- you know, you see that, I guess -- I don't know what you call it; I'm not an
architect. The thing in the middle.
Chair Russell: Fenestration.
Mayor Gimenez: The what?
Chair Russell: Fenestration.
Mayor Gimenez: Whatever. Great. I love it.
Chair Russell: I've learned --
Mayor Gimenez: Okay. Right.
Chair Russell: -- through this process.
Mayor Gimenez: Learned some new --what is that again?
Chair Russell: Fenestration.
Mayor Gimenez: Fenestration? That's what it is?
Commissioner Reyes: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) sound --
Mayor Gimenez: Sounds great; looks even better. So the -- because there was a
modernistic time, and so (UNINTELLIGIBLE) "that looks like it's 1920, so let's" --
Commissioner Reyes: Yes.
Mayor Gimenez: -- "take it away. " All right? So that's the color. That's how it
will be restored. So there are additions that are put back to that building. That is a
building that wraps around. That is what I have known all my life as the Coconut
Grove Playhouse. It is not -- when you go around the back to look at the theater or
the auditorium, there's nothing that I see as architecturally significant. It has got a
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bunch of add-ons to it that were not even part of the original 1927 structure. And
so, what everybody in the world sees as the Coconut Grove Playhouse is that.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
Mayor Gimenez: That will be restored.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Commissioner Reyes: And I have another question that -- I don't know. I'm trying
to get -- I wasn't here when all this happened, you see. Remember that I've been
here only for a year, and I know this been going on for four years, and I just want
to make -- I mean -- How much? 13 years. I mean, it is -- Jesus Christ. It's been
closed -- it's about time that we do something about this, okay?
Chair Russell: So I just --
Commissioner Reyes: Hold on a second.
Chair Russell: Please. Go ahead.
Commissioner Reyes: Yes. From what I heard, you see, the -- you went before the
Historic Preservation Board, and the Historic Preservation Board gave you -- it
was an understanding. They gave you permission, or they approved on the
demolition of the auditorium, right?
Mr. Spring: That is our understanding.
Commissioner Reyes: Auditorium that I already -- it is clear that it is not the
original auditorium, because it has been -- Then there was an appeal, right?
Mr. Spring: Correct.
Commissioner Reyes: And Francisco, then what happened; the Historic
Preservation Board changed, right? The members changed?
Mr. Garcia: Two additional steps, Commissioner. The appeal that you were
referring to came to this Commission.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
Mr. Garcia: And the decision of the Commission itself was appealed.
Commissioner Reyes: And the decision of the Commission was for the demolition
of the auditorium?
Mr. Garcia: No.
Commissioner Reyes: I mean, to continue with the previous --
Mr. Garcia: The Commission --
Commissioner Reyes: -- uphold the previous decision of the Historic Preservation
Board?
Mr. Garcia: The Commission -- and I am going to summarize briefly, and there
can be additional details -- but essentially placed additional requirements on the
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project. That itself was then appealed, and the Court --
Commissioner Reyes: Could you please define what additional -- those -- did the
additional requirement have anything to do with the demolition of the --?
Mr. Garcia: I think the City Attorney will be glad to chime in.
Mr. Greco: Commissioner, the -- what this Commission did after the original -- the
2017 HEP decision was three things: One, it directed that there be a 600 -seat
theater, unless certain amount of money was raised; in which case, it would revert -
Commissioner Reyes: Unless either -- 600 if no money was -- I mean, up to an
amount of money that have to be raised, right?
Mr. Greco: Exactly.
Commissioner Reyes: If that wasn't been raise, then -- that money was not raised
then it will come -- it could be --
Mr. Greco: To the County's requested 300.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
Mr. Greco: That was number one.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
Mr. Greco: Number two --
Commissioner Reyes: Yes, please continue.
Mr. Greco: -- it required that the -- certain interior elements be preserved; the
proscenium arches, cherubs, and Solomonic columns.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
Mr. Greco: Number three, it directed that the -- all the buildings be -- the structure
be maintained.
Commissioner Reyes: The whole building --
Mr. Greco: Yes.
Commissioner Reyes: -- including the --
Mr. Greco: Yes.
Commissioner Reyes: -- auditorium?
Mr. Greco: Yes. Just the structures, the shells.
Commissioner Reyes: The structure.
Mr. Greco: So on appeal to the Circuit Court, the Circuit Court found that the
appellants -- the individuals did not have standing. And so, because they didn't
have standing, the appeal couldn't have come to the Commission.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
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Mr. Greco: But the Court also said that the -- in the original report, the interior
was not designated, so that that was off limits for remand.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay. Now, I'm understanding that up to there. Right? And
then, after that, I mean, the Court said that -- I mean, go -- that went back to the
original one, right?
Mr. Greco: Yes.
Commissioner Reyes: And then what happened? It went back to the Historic
Preservation Board?
Mr. Greco: Correct.
Commissioner Reyes: And the Historic Preservation Board has -- the composition
of the Historic Preservation Board have changed, as I do understand. That they --
then they found that the demolition of the auditorium wasn't permitted. If the Court
had said that it doesn't have any validity, why they are going to do it -- do that?
That's something that I don't understand.
Mr. Garcia: Right. And I think the simple way to explain it is, as I think was
alluded to before by the appellant, is that this process was engaged as a two-step
process. First, the County went to the HEP Board in the hopes of obtaining an
approval in principle, a Certificate of Appropriateness in principle --
Commissioner Reyes: And they got it, right?
Mr. Garcia: -- to approve, essentially, the site plan and the approach, given the
complexity of the project, and that ran the route that was just described. And it was
always understood from the beginning that they would have to come back for a
final approval.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
Mr. Garcia: The HEP Board's denial of the presentation for the final approval is
was -- what's before you on appeal today.
Commissioner Reyes: Yes, but that denial came after we went to court?
Mr. Garcia: That's correct.
Commissioner Reyes: I mean, after we went the Court. And the Court said that the
original decision was standing, because they didn't have grounds for appeal, right?
Mr. Greco: Correct.
Commissioner Reyes: So that --for all practical purposes, the second opinion is
the one that we are -- is on appeal now?
Mr. Greco: Correct.
Commissioner Reyes: I mean, the second opinion, that it was based on whatever
criteria was used by that board at the time?
Mr. Greco: Correct.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay. Which is overruling the previous board. For all
practical purposes, you are -- the previous board says, "You are allowed to
demolish it. " And then they come and they say, "No. " They are overruling the
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previous board. I mean, that's -- in --
Chair Russell: So --
Commissioner Reyes: -- my hometown in Victoria de las Tunas, that would have
been the -- that's the case, you see. If I say something and somebody say something
else, you're overruling me.
Chair Russell: Right, and that is the contention of the County.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay?
Chair Russell: But where Commissioner Hardemon was going, I believe, and what
I'd like to clarify for liability purposes, basically, I feel that we're under a threat
here that -- and the HEP Board was, as well -- `Agree with us, or you may owe us
$1.1 million, because we were acting on your directive as a HEP Board to go
ahead with the plan. " I believe, and it would be my finding -- I don't know how this
board feels -- but Conditions 11 and 12 basically absolve that board of any
commitment to the County that they should -- they're basically telling them,
"Proceed at your own risk. This has not been completely approved. You must
come back to us in full, and no demolition permit will be granted until a total plan
is approved. " So at least from a -- this board may -- once we get into the meat of
your plan, you know, it may or may dis -- may agree or disagree with where you're
going --
Commissioner Reyes: With all due respect --
Chair Russell: -- but I think, at least in my perspective, what the HEP Board's
initial look at your plan --you've got --you went forward. You didn't get a total
"no, " but there certainly wasn't a total "yes. " They -- when the plan came back to
them -- and Commissioner Reyes's point is that was a new board, as well --
Commissioner Reyes: That's right, but --
Chair Russell: -- with new folks, which felt completely against it.
Commissioner Reyes: -- what I'm saying -- and I'm not addressing the
expenditures, which I think -- I mean, if they incurred those expenditures due to the
decision of the first board, I don't know if they took a chance or they were right.
That's something for the Courts to decide. But what I'm saying is that this new
board -- you see? -- overruled the previous board that had given their blessing for
the demolition of -- that is my understanding. And I don't understand what criteria
was used.
Mr. Kerbel: And Commissioner -- and Commissioner Reyes and Commissioner
Russell, if I could respond to both of those issues. In raising this point, we're not
saying that the City is on the hook for $1.2 million. What we're saying is, as
Commissioner Reyes pointed out, the -- in 2017, the HEP Board said, "You may
demolish, "period.
Commissioner Reyes: Yes.
Chair Russell: No.
Mr. Kerbel: They said, "You have to come back with detailed plans so that we see
what you're going to put there in its place, " but that approval said, "You may
demolish. " We presented 16 pages worth of plans that showed what was going to
be demolished, what was no longer going to be there and what was going to be --
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Chair Russell: Got it.
Mr. Kerbel: -- retained. And so, while I agree -- Commissioner, we don't
challenge the fact -- Mr. Chair, we don't challenge the fact that we had to go back
with drawings, and that it was not a complete approval to just go ahead and knock
down the building. I don't think it would be fair to characterize that resolution as
anything other than the 2017 HEP Board saying, "You may demolish. You have to
come back, but you may demolish. " And then the 20 -- and so, that's why the
reconsideration rule is very important, because in -- the HEP Board's own rules
say, If we've previously granted you permission to do something, we can't retract
it once you've relied on it. " And so, we raised the $1.2 million argument to say,
"We relied on the fact that the HEP Board had said, `You may demolish. "'
Commissioner Hardemon: Mr. Chairman?
Chair Russell: It seems to me that you read up to where you wanted to read. "You
may demolish, period" is not what it says. It says, "You may demolish, " comma,
"if and when we give you total permission to do so; if we approve of the entire
project, which we have not yet. " I mean, that seems to be what they're really
saying.
Mr. Kerbel: Well --
(Applause).
Chair Russell: No, no, no, please. This is not -- I'm not trying to grandstand here.
I want to be clar -- make a very clarifying point that there wasn't full approval, not
even implied approval. It was a step on the road.
Mr. Kerbel: Mr. Chair, I think it was more than that, though, because basically,
what the HEP Board said was, "You may proceed and spend money in designing a
building that replaces that auditorium building. "
Chair Russell: Yes.
Mr. Kerbel: And if they had not said that, we would not have spent the money to go
then, design the plans --
Chair Russell: Understood.
Mr. Kerbel: --and what we're presenting for you today.
Chair Russell: They didn't say, "No; over our dead bodies. " They said, "We'll
consider it, go spend money, come back; we may like it; we may not. "
Mr. Kerbel: Well, "We may not like what you replace it, but the fact that you're
going to replace it, "I really do think is beyond the scope of what's properly before
this board. I --
Chair Russell: Okay. Fair difference of interpretation.
Mr. Kerbel: You have your counsel; we have our disputes.
Chair Russell: Let's keep moving on to the meat of the actual application.
Commissioner Hardemon: Wait, wait, wait.
Mr. Kerbel: And at which point --
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Commissioner Hardemon: Before we get there, I have a question, because I know
we're discussing what's beyond the purview of this board. What is within the
purview of this board?
Mr. Greco: So the considerations for a Certificate of Appropriateness are, number
1, following the Section 23-6.2 of the City Code, which I will state, is that "The
proposed work shall not adversely affect the historic architectural or aesthetic
character of the subject structure, or the relationship and congruity between the
subject structure and its neighboring structures and surroundings. In addition,
decisions relating to alterations or new construction shall be guided which US
Secretary of the Interiors, standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for
rehabilitating historic buildings." I would also point out that, as we have discussed
extensively, there is an interplay between what the conceptual plan that the HEP
Board approved in 2017 and the conditions that were placed on that approval,
which have been discussed in paragraphs 11 and 12 of the attachment to the HEP
resolution. So those are your guidelines, and not the interior. I think we've said
that already.
Chair Russell: So I would like to get into the -- Well, Commissioner Hardemon, do
you have further questions on that? The -- because from my finding, the HEP
Board made a legally sound decision on -- it's come to us at this point and, we may
or may not agree with them, but I don't find that they acted out of order or in
conspiracy, or that they shouldn't have been able to make the ruling the way they
did. I find the HEP Board's decision to have been a legally sound decision. Now,
whether this body agrees with it or not is where we go forward from here de novo.
Mr. Kerbel: Understood. We obviously, for purposes of the record, disagree with
that.
Chair Russell: I understand.
Mr. Kerbel: But we will now if -- with your permission, we'll let Mr. Hernandez
get into what should have -- better -- what should have been the showpiece here,
which is the plans.
Mr. Hernandez: So I can begin while he's pulling up the slides. Jorge Hernandez,
337 Palermo Avenue. I'm an architect with an expertise in preservation, and a
professor at the University of Miami School of Architecture. I would also like to
thank Melissa Meyers for mentioning my involvement earlier during her testimony
in trying to stop the demolition of St. Stephens hundred -year-old worship center. I
did that from the sidewalk many years ago with Arva Moore Park and Dolly
McIntyre. And, yes, Andres Viglucci did come forth and cover it in the article, and
that's another way of saying that I've been involved in the advocacy of the history of
this community for over 35 years, and I've got the blood on the sidewalk to prove it,
so. Anyway, this project is a historic preservation project and preservation
planning. It aims to restore and rehabilitate the most significant historic elements
of this site, and interpret these to tell the complete story of this place. The plan
enlists the valuable and viable historic assets of the site, along with new structures,
in returning live theater, the site's most historic use, to this beloved corner of
Coconut Grove. Together, historic and new buildings form a partnership in
defining a network of spaces; green, accessible, public realms of a vibrant urban
campus for theater here in the Grove. The assessment of the integral historic
elements, the entire front building -- that is, the entire front building; not the
faqade. The complete and entire building -- which I have repeatedly said for over
four years, a facade does not keep the rain out; a faqade cannot be entered to
purchase something or eat something; it does not sustain life. So it's the entire
front building, which, as the Mayor said, is everything all of us have ever seen of
the Coconut Grove Playhouse. In fact, if you look at every image that was shown
here today and every image I've ever seen of the playhouse, and every image that
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has ever been shown in any of these deliberations, there are no historic images
from the '20s, '30s, '40s, '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s, 2000s, up to today, that show
any other image, except for the one that's up on your screen; none in all of my
review of the photography of this structure. Both the County and those not in favor
of the County plan only keep showing this image, because this is the face and
likeness, and public image of the entire site. It's the nature of theaters. Theaters
are a room and a facade; an interior and an exterior. And in this case, the facade
is not just a fagade -- which is why we call it the front building -- it is the wall of the
faqade and a depth of 30 feet, where you will see in just a brief moment many
different functions occurred over time. So I'm sorry for that distraction. But the
assessment of the integral historic elements was a product of a year-long process of
research in local and State libraries and archives, and City and County records
offices, field measurements and documentations, and scientific testing; both by the
structural engineer, Douglas Wood, who has an impeccable reputation in historic
structures; and the conservator, Rosa Lowinger, who are apart of the team, along
with me and Arquitectonica. I am a sub to Arquitectonica. This process separated
fact from fiction, this year-long process, and revealed many layers, multiple layers
of history which were lost or altered or ruined, and then some nostalgically
falsified -- additions that nostalgically falsified and confused the visitor as to what
the 1927 architecture is, and these nostalgic falsifications happened after the
period of significance. As you will see, these discoveries guided the
recommendations that informed this preservation plan, the County's Historic
Preservation Plan for this Coconut Grove Playhouse. This plan involved the
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) collaboration of public and nonprofit entities; Miami -Dade
Cultural Affairs Department, Florida International University, Miami Parking
Authority; and Joe Adler and his nonprofit, GableStage, and public monies to
return live theater and varied arts educational programming to this site. Over the
last two years, two different Preservation Officers of the City of Miami -- the
standing officer and the previous one -- using their professional judgment,
endorsed the plan to their board. Both Preservation Officers recommended in their
staff recommendations in favor of this plan, compliant with Chapter 23. We are
here to answer questions. And I will now give a brief overview of the attributes of
the project. Because of the questioning, I think also that it'll be useful if I pull out
some imagery from the previous presentation to the HEP Board, the one that we're
hearing the appeal for here. And we can do the whole presentation, or I can pluck
other images to answer your questions.
Chair Russell: Up to you.
Mr. Hernandez: Okay. So in speaking about the playhouse, it is useful to refer to
this slide. It encapsulates the history of the playhouse in four chapters. The
building was opened in the first years of 1927 as a silent movie screen theater. It is
designed, as you have heard, by the master architects, Kiehnel & Elliot. It is a
master work of 1927 Spanish Revival architecture, and it is listed in the local
designation and in the national designation for the architectural significance
associated with that edifice of that time. So architectural significance belongs only
to the fabric of the 1927 building. That chapter came to a close in 1955/56, when
Alfred Browning Parker, another master, a mid-century modern master, did
renovations to that playhouse for George Engle, a prominent businessman in
Coconut Grove. They opened the Coconut Grove Playhouse. The listing, both
locally and in the National Register, is for the events; not the architectural mastery
by Alfred Browning Parker, but the events that occurred there. Why? For two
reasons: One, local scholarship shows that it is not in signature work of Parker,
A "; `B, " it was not included in his compendium of his complete life's work, which
he collaborated on; and more importantly, most of Parker's work has subsequently
been ripped out. So if Parker ripped out all of Kiehnel's work or most of Kiehnel's
work, then what happened here afterward is that in the 1980s -- late '70s and '80s,
all of Parker's work was then subsequently ripped out. So that period of time,
which is Chapter 3, 1977 to 2006, is when the Coconut Grove Playhouse became a
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nonprofit theater. Before that, it was a for profit theater. As a nonprofit theater,
those third iterations of changes that ripped out all the significant fabric of
Parker's work occurred. And the last chapter, we all know is the chapter covered
after it was shuttered. Okay? If we keep referring to these, I think it'll clarify a lot
of the questions of what is architecturally significant, not architecturally
significant, culturally significant, and so on. Thank you. So this is the 1920 -- an
early image of 1927 of that building, an image which you're more than familiar. It
is an absolute signature work of Richard Kiehnel. The building is much more
ornamented and robust in its design and its exterior. You'll see that in a second. It
has the full range of architectural imagery and elements that you see from this
period; the pediment in the center, the parapet that is formed like a baroque
pediment, then the crenellations on the sides, the fenestration, the doors, and so on.
If you notice very carefully, there're a series of storefronts; three on the right-hand
side, four on the left-hand side. Those were shops. This building was always a
mixed-use building; always, except for the period -- the second period. There were
shops there, and there continued to be shops there until 1956. This is what is
architecturally significant in every board that has reviewed and assessed this place.
This is what's architecturally significant. This is a post-war image; very interesting
one. You see the Central Gable has been cut off, but the crenellations, which are
those little rectangular articulations of the parapets, remain; all of the windows,
the fenestration, remains in its current location; all of the details, all of the molding
remain. If you look again at the ground floor, the four storefronts to the left are
taken by an insurance company, and the right hand three storefronts have been
altered. There is a wooden bay window, like a saddle bag, that's propped outside
of the storefronts, and it's become a soda fountain. So there were always other uses
and functions here. It was always a mixed-use building. This is a photograph after
the Parker and Engle years. It's a mid-century photograph. And the -- again, now
that the parapets have been cut off completely, the crenellations, the windows
unfortunately were replaced with jalousie windows -- there's window air
conditioners -- but most importantly, those storefronts were blocked off. And the
storefronts were blocked off because the business model -- we've been hearing a lot
about business models -- for Engle and Parker was about dinner theater. So they
needed to get the person to walk in and stay in, and they wanted them to use the
restaurant that Engle built as part of the theater and the bar that Engle built as
part of the theater so that all of that could sustain the cash of operating the theater.
In spite of closing up -- the partial closing up of the storefronts and the other
changes that I've mentioned, everyone agrees that the exterior of this front -most
building still retains sufficient evidence, sufficient associations with the 1927
period, and it is, without doubt, a work of Mediterranean Revival by the hand of
Kiehnel, Richard Kiehnel, who is a designer of Kiehnel and Elliot. And that's what
we're -- yeah, that's what we're bringing back. We are restoring the facades and
rehabilitating that entire building, and we are restoring the -- rehabilitating the
original functions of that building, so the front will have storefronts. And off the
sidewalk, in the spirit of Miami 21 and enlightening the sidewalks of Coconut
Grove, will be retain and different configurations as the market warrants, and then
above it will be the offices. There were always offices to manage the theater. For a
small time in the mid-century, there were some apartments there too, but there was
always retail and offices above, and that's what we're bringing back to that image,
which has always been the lead and iconic image on every photograph of this site,
of this historic site. So there are a number of images that I brought, that I've
shared all along the way in this voyage, and there's one missing one that I'll add at
the end, because I thought -- some of your questions have prompted me to wish I
had included it. But these are plans of the building. The original plans for the
building by Kiehnel and Elliot are lost. They were not in the County records. They
were not in the City records. They were not at the University of Florida archives.
They were not at the University of Miami archives. And everybody that's done any
work on these buildings will agree that they have never shown up. With the plans
that I did find at the University of Florida archives were the plans of Alfred
Browning Parker, who, when he made his changes, had to document what he found.
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And from those documentations, I could draw the original plan of Kiehnel, but it
would be speculative to know that we have material and specific fabric; completely
speculative to restore the Kiehnel interior. So everything that is tainted in blue, the
dark blue is what Parker added. So to the Commissioner's point, Commissioner
Reyes's point, there have been accretions, like barnacles, around the body of this
building, added over time. One of them is at the top left, and the other one is
between the light blue of the left-hand wing of the -- or the downward wing of the
front building; and this triangular building, separate functional building that used
to house an air conditioning -- a primitive form of air conditioning equipment. So
the dark blue is what was most radically changed. The light blue still involves
changes, because among the many things that Parker did is he changed the slope of
the floor. So there is a buried floor from 1927 under the existing floor that every
one of us remembers from going to plays there. And he did that to change the
angle of the floor of a silent screen movie theater to a live play theater. It wasn't a
sufficient change because -- but it was the only one he could afford to implement.
As a result of that, many of the elements of the interior have ended up buried,
partially under the new concrete floor, and the old floor is buried, as well. The
front building, which you can still see here as the two wings in the configuration,
was completely changed; the exterior and the interior. And the crescent lobby, the
next space, was changed; the original stairs were ripped out and another stair
configuration was placed in. And then there's that middle belt of dark blue in the
plan; that was a compression. Parker compressed the Kiehnel building by one-
third of the length of the auditorium, and he did that because he needed to get more
dining and drinking space. It was part of the business plan. When he compressed
that interior third, two of the four bays of Solomonic columns, which you'll see in a
second, were relegated to spaces like where the urinals are in the men's bathroom.
Before then -- Yes?
Chair Russell: If we've agreed not to direct or offer a ruling on any interior, is it
necessary to go through the full interior as the evolution (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
Mr. Hernandez: I'm not going through the full one, but you'll find out why I'm
doing this in a while.
Chair Russell: Okay. If it's relevant, sure.
Mr. Hernandez: Thank you. Yes. Thank you, though, for the question. So that's
the extent of everything Parker touched. If you look just to the top of the north
wing, the one that's headed up Main Highway, you will see a detached rectangular
building. So when I answered your question, Commissioner Hardemon, about the
different complexities of different -- That older structure was never part of the
playhouse until the '80s. After the '80s, it was glued into the playhouse with a
hyphen, gutted, and then more of the workings of the playhouse were put in there.
Okay? But that is not in any of the designations, local or National Register listing,
and it's not significant. So all of these things had to be demolished to get back to a
level of clarity, physical clarity. So in 1982, an architect, Richard Schuster, of
Ferguson Glasgow Schuster -- some of you may remember that firm -- was hired to
do changes to what Parker had done, and also to document change. And so, that is
scheduled here in green; although, really, some of it, you can't see it, but the
bathrooms on the bottom of the lobby are green and blue overlay. So what
happened is that in the latter years of the 70s, early '80s, and onward, changes
were being constantly made throughout the interior of the playhouse and the
exterior.
Chair Russell: Question: The separate structure that got hyphenated and attached
in the '80s, you say, how old was that structure? Is that original, but it was
detached? Or is that -- it came along at some point?
Mr. Hernandez: It was never original to the playhouse. It is an old structure.
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Chair Russell: How --
Mr. Hernandez: Probably about --from the same period or a little older. It was --
Chair Russell: --from the same period of the--?
Mr. Hernandez: Of the 1927 Kiehnel --
Chair Russell: Oh, so you believe that is a 1920 structure, as well?
Mr. Hernandez: Structure.
Chair Russell: But it wasn't attached; it was attached (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Mr. Hernandez: It was always an independent shop, owned by an independent
person. In the '80s, it was purchased, gutted, and attached, as you can see there, to
the playhouse. And then the other thing of note is that the bottom wing, the back
wall of the bottom wing -- you'll see a photograph -- was supported by a metal
armature, and that wall was completely undermined. So now the physical
configuration starts to be compromised within the interior. The clarity of the
reading of the wing is gone. So we go back to a picture of the interior of the
Kiehnel hall, and if you compare this to the exterior, it's fairly -- well, it's very
elegant, and it's certainly generously sized, but it's fairly austere in comparison to
the exterior of the building. There are four --you only see three in this picture --
white paired columns that support double arches. If you see the beam of light at
the first column from the stage up -- the photographer is standing at the stage --
that is about the level of compression that Alfred Browning Parker did when he
pulled that back wall of the auditorium in. That's the level of change in
compression. He also got rid of some of the Solomonic columns, and he covered
over the vault and changed it and cut into it, as he needed to, for lighting and
trusses, and all sorts of the workings of contemporary theater. This is some of the
result of what happened. Now this was not done by Parker, I must say. This was
done in the '80s, okay? Although Parker did have columns in some of the lady's
bath -- well, powder room, yes.
Chair Russell: That's not a lady's room.
Mr. Hernandez: Like, I'm going to powder my nose. " Yes. No, that's not the
lady's powder room. Yes. So what happened is that not only were certain elements
dispensed with in all of this work, but the remaining elements were relegated to
spaces where they lost their dignity and their meaning, and they remained therefor
decades and decades of years. Then the arch you see that that column supports,
you would think -- because it's over a 1927 column -- might be a 1927 arch; it's not.
Many of the 1927 arches were cut away. All of the 1927 arches were semi -circular
arches, "medio puntos." All of these arches are elliptical or oval arches. It is a
very complex deciphering, and a person that doesn't either really know or
understand historic architecture, i.e., the general public, can easily be fooled that
these elements that conspire to appear like 1927 elements are, when, in fact, they
are not. This would probably be a good place to pause and answer your question.
You know, we've heard a lot about, "Where's the structure? Is the structure in
legally?" Although I'm not going to talk about legalities, it seems that everybody
came to an accord. The entire structure was -- on the local designation was
deemed historic. The interior was not included in the local designation. The
elements of significance -- architectural significance in the local designation of the
facade, we're saying it's more than the facade. We want to bring back the entire
front building. But this is a quote from the National Register Bulletin of the
Secretary of the Interiors that has to do with how to evaluate the integrity of a
historic property, and I will gladly give you the reference. So, if you look up on
your phones, "How to evaluate integrity of a historic property on the National
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Register" and read, you will come to this quote. And the quote says -- It's funny,
because the first example was a concert hall. The quote says, "A historic concert
hall, if it were to lose its interior, would lose its value as a historic structure, " end
quote. And you have seen the degree --
Chair Russell: Who said that? I'm sorry. Who said that?
Mr. Hernandez: What?
Chair Russell: Who said that?
Mr. Hernandez: That's on the National Register Bulletin of how to evaluate
interiors relative to integrity of a historic structure. So this is the government -- the
Feds regulating through the Secretary of the Interiors.
Chair Russell: Right.
Mr. Hernandez: Okay? So the first example, textbook, is that: If a historic
concert hall were to lose its interiors, it would lose its value as a historic
structure, " end quote.
Chair Russell: I mean, can't you take that one step further to work against the case
that demolishing the theater would also lose its integrity as a historic theater?
Mr. Hernandez: If it has none already, because it's lost its interior. There are
buildings that -- the passage refers to buildings for which the exterior is more
important, like a skyscraper -- obvious, right? -- because a skyscraper has multiple
floors, and the structure -- the sculptural structure of a skyscraper is the thing
that's most prominent.
Chair Russell: Yeah.
Mr. Hernandez: And then the passage then does the opposite; makes an argument
for types of structures, typologies of structures, for where the interior is paramount
in the integrity. So if it's -- according to this passage, if it's lost its interior, it's lost
its historic value.
Chair Russell: Right.
Mr. Hernandez: This is an example of Case "B, " where it says --
Chair Russell: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I think it's already lost its
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) ?
Mr. Hernandez: It's already lost (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Chair Russell: And to your point, even if we save the exterior structure of the
auditorium but we don't fully restore the interior --
Mr. Hernandez: Yes.
Chair Russell: --the --
Mr. Hernandez: And --
Chair Russell: --you haven't complied with whatever those national standards for
historic theaters would be?
Mr. Hernandez: Well, yes; any buildings, yeah.
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Chair Russell: Yeah.
Mr. Hernandez: Correct. But more to the point is by the time you purge away the
accretions, the barnacles, then what do you have, really?
Chair Russell: Understood.
Mr. Hernandez: Yes. You have sort of an old movie house that's been compressed
twice. Sothis is other evidence of what has happened. This is why I'm focusing on
the interior when Parker made the changes to Kiehnel. Kiehnel had these
decorative concrete elements throughout the interior, and what you see is a
industrial sheet metal perforated wall, assembled like you would an industrial
structure, and painted, with afire hose cabinet cut into it; clearly, not -- and I am a
fan of Parker, but I think in his case, this was an act of expedience, obviously;
clearly not a signature of his work, which is why it's been excluded. It's not
because of the hand of Parker that this is included, but rather because of the events
of the American stage that happened here that this was included. And this is the
last one that I showed you, where in the '80s, a metal armature was put up to prop
up a wall above so that this wall below, this load-bearing wall, could be
demolished; therefore, making two previous zones of the building -- interior spaces
of the buildings and actual structure walls of the buildings morph into this
scenario, which used to be called the Encore Room. Okay? But this is -- these
three slides -- I presented many more to the HEP Board -- are endemic of the
history of change over time for this historic resource. So let me just briefly present
the plan; the plan, as it stands a second time, that we submitted it; not the original
time. And we have a comparison of the two, as well. So the site, as we all know, is
an irregular site. It's bound by Main Highway, Charles Avenue, Williams, Abitare,
and then the alley, which is here, called "Thomas Avenue, " because it was a named
alleyway. And you can see that the site is loaded -- well, first and foremost, the site
is framed by green space, and the plan actually pulls back more than the distances
of the required setbacks. So that buffer, that green buffer between sidewalks,
wherever they occur, and the buildings is actually greater than what the Code
requires; and obviously, in consideration for the residential neighborhood to the
west and to other adjacencies. So there's this notion of framing all of this site in
green, what you see here; even Thomas Avenue is planted. And then there's this
strategy of thinking of this site as having two geometries. There's the geometry to
the upper right, which is rectangular, and therefore is the best place for the parking
garage; and there's the geometry of the lower left, where the theater -- the Coconut
Grove Theater is now, today; the existing structure is today. You can recognize the
wing shape of the historic front building in its entirety. It is rehabilitated and used
in its entirety; not the fagade; the entire building, all three floors of it. And because
behind it was the new auditorium space, then we did what is recommended in
preservation, which is to distinguish the historic and the new; and we did it in the
easiest way, which is to provide space between them. So there is a garden -- there's
a planted courtyard between the historic front building and the new 300 foot
theater, which is that square rectangle -- I mean, square box with the rectangle
behind it. So if you look at that white rectangle just behind the auditorium space,
that's the fly stage, and it has four little rectangles on top of it that's mechanical
equipment. The importance to that is that the fly stage, because of the scale of this
300 -seat theater, can be pulled further away from the West Grove. So the highest
element of the site, which is the fly stage, at its correct dimension for the right use
today, 62 feet; not the 52 feet -- or the 52 feet that exists. At 62 feet, it's pulled back
from the West Grove; not fly stages. When you look at the first house, right on the
intersection of Williams and Abitare, that first house is almost equidistant. The
corner of the house is equidistant to the fly stage as the entry to the five --front
building is to the fly stage, more or less. That buries the highest element in the
center of the plot, guarding it from the historic view, from the sidewalk on Main
Highway, and guarding it from the neighbors of the West Grove. Okay. So that
was the strategy, but more importantly, the theater was placed on the diagonal,
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because part of our memory of the site is to enter that front building and walk
along the diagonal axis generated by the corner until we entered the space of
performance. So, in essence, the original procession through the site and the
experience of that procession through the site also has been preserved -- restored.
And then to the right of the theater are support spaces, and to the top of the theater
are support spaces. It should be noted that, again, from meeting -- not only many
comments given here over the two years -- and it's been a long process, but it has
been a process where many people were able to say what they thought of the
project, and when we could, we listened and incorporated it. So this entryway off
of Charles is for the trucks that don't come frequently, but they come every time the
show changes. You can see that it's pulled off of Charles in --within the first lot,
let's say, from Main Highway; and the truck can service the back of the stage, do a
three-point turn, and the curb is configured so the truck must take a left out and
back into Main Highway; therefore, no trucks are going to enter the neighborhood
of the West Grove. It is protected from the trucks of the neighborhood of the West
Grove. And then there are the spaces. There is the pocket park at the nose, at the
top, right behind the parking garage. At the nose of this thing, that's an open green
space, like a pocket park, given over to the community; places of interpretation -- of
opportunities for interpretation for the Bahamian story, the important Bahamian
history of this site. And then there is the second space, which is long linear space
between the parking garage structure and the theater, per se, which actually is --
we call it a "paseo. " It links for the first time ever Main Highway and Williams
and Abitare. So we were speaking about a gateway to the Bahamian village. This
is -- you'll see a rendering. This is a completely acceptable, wonderful, great
gateway, because you can travel back and forth. There's no gates that's not closed,
and it will have spillover cafe tables from that restaurant, which is a trapezoidal
building, and we'll for the first time get rid of the barbed wire and the tall chain-
link fences. Then there are two little plazas on either side of the ends of the wing
buildings; one looks up Main Highway and the other one up Charles Avenue. This
is the result of the geometry. The one that looks up Main Highway is more active.
The one that's on Charles Avenue is less active; although now, with the Stirrup
house restored, and the bed and breakfast moving in, people can go from the old
Calamari through the garden of the Stirrup house into the Charles Avenue Plaza
and into the site and cross -- it becomes a network of connections, in a sense, that
this corner fosters through the Grove.
Chair Russell: Just a question.
Mr. Hernandez: That's more of the same -- Yes.
Chair Russell: Just a question. So in order to build this garage, you need that
office building that was added -- that was attached later to be removed?
Mr. Hernandez: Yes, absolutely. In order to build -- not the garage. In order to
build the plaza that we speak of, the commercial building that was attached in the
'80s and for a while was a bar called "Coco Lopez, " will be removed. And in all of
the reports, it is not apart of the integral fabric, and in fact, it is seen as negative
and ruining the pseudosymmetry of the fagade.
Chair Russell: But it doesn't -- so it doesn't interfere with the garage; just the
plaza?
Mr. Hernandez: Well, a corner of the restaurant and the plaza. You see where the
plaza is on the right-hand side of the winged building?
Chair Russell: Yes.
Mr. Hernandez: Its footprint is probably --you see, there's a tree in the middle of -
- what -- appears to be three trees?
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Chair Russell: Yes. That's the hyphen, though, isn't it?
Mr. Hernandez: That's where the hyphen is.
Chair Russell: So then the building is --
Mr. Hernandez: And the build is --
Chair Russell: -- north of that.
Mr. Hernandez: -- where the two trees is [sic], so its footprint is partially on the
plaza, partially on the trapezoidal restaurant, and partially on the core of the
parking garage. Okay? So it's in between there. So, yes. The answer is `yes."
But also, I should say that except for the commercial and office programming that
is in the front building, which the front building always had historically, then the
rest of the commercial is what's predicated by Miami 21, and we have approval
from the Planning Board for that reason. In other words, there's no more
commercial here than what is required by Miami 21 to, A, " provide activity on the
sidewalk through restaurants and cafes; and `B, " screen the structure of the
parking garage with office uses or appropriate uses. So it's a liner for -- as Miami
21 calls for. And that pretty much summarizes the plan as we know it. Another --
the last reason -- and I'd like to end on this -- which I keep going back to as a kind
of marker through the presentation, is that is now the rendering of the built -- five -
story building on Main Highway, which built not as of right, not a part of this
project. The garage, what you see there, is a four-story building; originally, it was
a six -story building, and through conversations that happened in this hall and
outside of this hall with many people, we in fact have been able to take the garage
down to four stories. It is 52 feet high. So the parapet of the playhouse -- not the
one that is, you know, articulated in the sky, but the standard line of the parapet is
39 feet, 6 inches tall, then the garage is 50 feet, and then that other structure I think
is upwards of 60.
Chair Russell: Which other structures?
Mr. Hernandez: The white one. You see the white one --
Chair Russell: Yes.
Mr. Hernandez: -- off the site?
Chair Russell: Understood.
Mr. Hernandez: So what's happening is, what Miami 21 calls for is a transition of
scale down to the historic structure, essentially.
Chair Russell: Yeah. So you're -- the way you refer to the structures is the
auditorium -- you called it the auditorium.
Mr. Hernandez: Yes.
Chair Russell: The front building, or do you call it the -- the front building?
Mr. Hernandez: Front building.
Chair Russell: What do you call that side building that was hyphenated?
Mr. Hernandez: Well, that -- I don't even put that in the equation, because it was
never part of the period of significance. It came in the 80s.
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Chair Russell: The hyphenation came in the '80s.
Mr. Hernandez: And there's -- Oh, and the structure came in the '20s.
Chair Russell: What was (UNINTELLIGIBLE) --
Mr. Hernandez: Was there since the '20s.
Chair Russell:
-- how do you refer to that building, just so we're talking the same
language?
Mr. Hernandez:
Well -- yeah. The nomenclature is tough.
Chair Russell:
Was it an office -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Mr. Hernandez:
It was a commercial structure for a while; housed a bar named
"Coco Lopez. "
Chair Russell:
Okay. We're going to call it the "Coco Lopez. "
Mr. Hernandez:
Okay.
Chair Russell:
Thank you.
Mr. Hernandez: Okay. All right. So these are the views; some of which you've
seen. So this is a view so you can see the campus -like quality of the site, and this
does have to do with preservation at another level, which many people talk to
today; not the narrow part of preservation that this appeal may be about, but the
notion of community preservation and being a project that's open. So this is the
view of the first plaza, and that's it in its current iteration. An earlier rendition was
shown of it today, but that earlier rendition was from the first submittal, the master
plan submittal. This view is of the final submittal, which is the final COA, with all
the details worked out. So you see the -- that Fabian wall of archaic structures; the
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) is gone. There is space around it for people to congregate.
The new building is pulled back from the historic front building, and in many ways,
it's deferential to the front building.
Chair Russell: This is my view walking from Coco Walk in the north. I'm heading
down Main Highway, and this is what I -- go back to the one you just had.
Mr. Hernandez: It's where the arrow is showing.
Chair Russell: Correct, correct. So if your intention is for people to continue to
use the diagonal on the main original entrance to the lobby, isn't this now the new
path of least resistance as you're walking along the sidewalk to go in this courtyard
and into the theater from there?
Mr. Hernandez: Yeah. Unless you're a historic nut, like you are, Commissioner --
because I was at the site with you and me -- and you say, I'm going to take an
extra two steps because I want the ceremonial entry. " So it's like whether you enter
the kitchen door or the living room door in your house.
Chair Russell: Right.
Mr. Hernandez: One does notpreclude --
Chair Russell: So if you 're interested in the historic building, you'll go to that?
Mr. Hernandez: -- the other.
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Chair Russell: Otherwise, you'll bypass that.
Mr. Hernandez: No, no. One does not preclude --
Chair Russell: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Mr. Hernandez: They're just options. On any given day, you can take one route or
another one.
Chair Russell: I understand.
Mr. Hernandez: Because it is like a campus, a mini urban campus.
Chair Russell: Got it.
Mr. Hernandez: Okay. So, you know, I wanted to make the point that, you know, it
is a deferential building. It's very simple. Its lines are very simple. It's letting the
ornamentation of the historic structure take preference. And its main vehicle for
aesthetic expression is the cladding with the local oolite stone of Miami -Dade
County and Coconut Grove. It is a structure that is essentially glass doors into the
restaurant -- that's the restaurant -- and that oolite line. So there's a very simple
language of architecture, but is respectful by complementing; not by competing or
even engaging in some of the historic elements. This is the second view, more close
now to the -- what I call the "planted court, " and that appears like that. The lobby
would be able to be open on fair-weather events, so you could spill out from the
lobby to the public space, down the breezeway. There's the breezeway that enters
from the corner in the kind of historic diagonal entry. This is the next sort of the
sort of signature spaces; the paseo, or we can call it the gateway to the West
Grove. And you see the side of the new theater on the left -- it's planted out -- a
restaurant, and then the parking garage structure, which, at mid -block, is blocked
with a screen, with a painted metal screen that has green like a landscape on it.
This is where -- a view of where the cafe tables could be placed. And if you were to
keep walking -- if that couple in the photograph keeps walking, they get to the
intersection of Williams and Abitare. And then the last one is this view of the
opposite little plaza on Charles, which is where the rehearsal space is, and again,
you just see here kind of silent architecture, coral stone cladding, layered in strata,
much like the way it was done -- is found in the geology and laid by the workmen,
many of them of Bahamian descent. So then we go to the inside, because even
though the inside is not protected, as I said, Secretary of Interior says, if an interior
-- if interior is lost, the significance of the structure is compromised. I'm
paraphrasing what I was reading before. And also, because the HEP Board and
many people in this community said, "Wait. But what about the proscenium arch?
Wait. What about this?" So we did some careful analysis of all these elements.
The double proscenium arch that we showed each of you that went on the tour is
going to be, in fact, incorporated into the new edifice. We can take the actual
artifact out and reuse as the double proscenium arch for the new 300 -seat theater.
So these are pieces that will carry the memory and tell the story of the site's long
and varied history. There will be vitrines that display -- there are fragments
available -- once they're extracted from the building, the existing structures that's
going to be demolished, and they will also be in vitrines that will have
interpretation. We will include also on the wall to the right, and in other locations,
monitors, because there's a lot of story of the mid-century that is actually part of
the Louis Wolfson Film Archive of the Miami Dade College. So there's actually a
lot of film footage that will be included there, playbills, other memorabilia that
covers the history; not only of the architectural significance, but then of the
cultural significance of the theater. This is just another shot of the lobby, showing
the doors open to the space between the historic front building and the new 300 -
seat theater. And these just show the amount of documentation, field
documentation, and records that we did on all the important significant elements of
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the front building. Our staff documented all of this. You can see there the sections
of the corners of the interior of the auditorium; the Solomonic columns, with a
rendition of how much of the columns are buried; these fish fountains that we're
also extracting from their buried concrete and putting into the vitrines, and so on.
So there's been an extensive amount of work of recovering of some of that material
memory for interpretation purposes. These slides, the Mayor shared with you, and
I wanted to just end with that one, if I may. That is the -- on the left is the
presentation made on 2017 of the master plan, and on the right is the presentation
made now, 2019.
Chair Russell: Got it.
Mr. Hernandez: And you can see that, to answer a number of the questions, that,
yes, the plan changed and evolved, but the amount of demolition proposed in 2017 -
- that is the demolition of the existing theater -- remain the same. That's what we
relied on. But the passageway into the West Grove, the three-point turn was
improved by moving that shed away from there, and many other smaller items of
refinement that, unfortunately, we did not get the chance to review at the HEP
Board in fullness, because we did somewhat, and then the argument went back to
the issue of the extent of demolition. Available for questions.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much. Mr. Adams, I have a question or two for you,
and then if -- if the appellant has made their full presentation? Thank you.
Mr. Kerbel: That concludes our presentation. That's all I wanted to say.
Chair Russell: Warren, you kind of inherited this mid -way --midstream, I guess.
Mr. Adams: Yeah.
Chair Russell: There was a previous Preservation Officer on the initial rulings;
you kind of came in --
Mr. Adams: Yes.
Chair Russell: -- in the middle of this. It's been said a few times here today that
you approve of the County plan. Would you say that's an accurate statement?
Mr. Adams: What I reviewed and approved was the restoration of the front
building, the construction of the new theater, the construction of the parking
garage, and the site improvements. As the County said, the premise was that the
demolition had been approved in 2017.
Chair Russell: And so, when you came to make that assessment on this second
iteration or application, as you mentioned earlier today, the application by word
did not refer to the demolition but really just the other plans, the --?
Mr. Adams: The record of intent did not refer to the demolition; however, I do
concede that the box on the application form was checked.
Chair Russell: Yeah.
Mr. Adams: I just find it a bit strange that if the demolition had been approved,
why either reapply for again or (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? I think the applicants knew
that the demolition would not be reviewed by me.
Chair Russell: Understood. Has anyone officially, even in the HEP Board or at
this body, has anyone asked you your opinion regarding the auditorium;
preservation or demolition of the auditorium structure?
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Mr. Adams: No.
Chair Russell: Do you have an opinion about that? With regard to its -- the
historical integrity of the theater, how crucial is that rear auditorium?
Mr. Adams: I think the reason I've never given an opinion is because I have
wanted to find out if the 2017 application, if the demolition was approved then. If
the demolition was approved then, my opinion wouldn't come into it.
Chair Russell: Uh-huh.
Mr. Adams: If the demolition was not approved then, obviously, my opinion would
come into it, because they would have to come back and apply for the demolition if
it was not approved in 2017.
Chair Russell: From what we've discussed today, I am of the opinion that the HEP
Board in 2017 said, "You may continue to look at this. You're on a path, but you do
not have approval for demolition. We haven't" -- 'you cannot apply for a permit,
and we could deny this entire thing," is my interpretation of this. If you hold to
that, what is your assessment of the historic integrity, including the rear building?
Mr. Adams: I would concede that the architectural significance --
Chair Russell: Right.
Mr. Adams: -- is the front elevation. But in my opinion, there is historic
significance with regard to the rest of the building, with regard to the contribution
to the theater industry in the development of Miami. But this really comes down to
if the demolition was approved in 2017, my opinion doesn't really come into it. But
if --
Chair Russell: Understood.
Mr. Adams: -- I was pushed, then does the rear building have historic
significance? I would say, "Yes, the architectural significance is for the front of
the building. "
Chair Russell: Got it. So that even falls in line with the 2005 opinion, where it
said the architec -- or the significance -- the architectural significance are those
front structures, and anyone who walks around it would agree with that. There's no
fenestration or crenellation, or anything on the rear, but the -- you're saying that,
in considering historic preservation, it's not just about the architecture -- what --
especially in -- maybe in a theater, there's more to it in -- that the rear has a
contributing factor?
Mr. Adams: In many cases, there's more to it than just the architecture.
Chair Russell: Got it.
Commissioner Reyes: Sir?
Chair Russell: Commissioner Reyes.
Commissioner Reyes: And I want to clarify this. That is your opinion. Your
opinion --you interpret that --
Chair Russell: Yes.
Commissioner Reyes: -- that way. And let me ask Legal. Sir, what is your
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interpretation to the decision that was on '17? And I want to hear Francisco, also.
Chair Russell: Was demolition approved in 2017 or not?
Mr. Greco: Well, the -- in the attachment to the decision, it specifically says that
"No demolition permit will be issued until the plan comes back to the HEP and is
approved, and that the concept that is being approved in this plan is in concept
only, " and it left the door open for HEP to require different configurations, height,
setbacks, et cetera, for the development of each individual building.
Chair Russell: Got it.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay. Francisco --
Mr. Kerbel: Mr. Chairman, may I comment on --
Chair Russell: Yes.
Mr. Kerbel: -- a question you had asked earlier? Just in terms of why I checked
the box for demolition if we had already been approved. Simply, in an abundance
of caution. Perhaps we anticipated this sort of discussion happening. And so, our
view had been we don't need to restate it, but we read that -- those conditions and
that approval to say more than simply, "You may come back with drawings. " What
they say is, "You may design your building premised on our approval to demolish
that rear building, because that rear building does not have any architectural
significance. " And in terms of -- and I think part of the discussion that we're
having here is, "What is integrity? What is significance?" And we agree that the
significance, the historic significance, is the use as a theater. We are restoring
that.
Chair Russell: One last question for you, and then I am going to pass the gavel
and make a motion. Do you have any renderings -- or was there ever a plan that
did include total restoration that you delved into and then said, "Okay, that's not
going to work, so we need to go this direction?" Or did you start -- is this the plan
that you started with?
Mr. Kerbel: Let me have Jorge Hernandez comment on that in more detail,
because he did it. But when he began his research, he did not come into the plan
with the idea of, `Let's knock it down and start over. " He did his research
premised on the idea that maybe there is something that can be saved, and he came
to the conclusion independently, but in line with the 2005 designation, that
demolition -- complete demolition of the rear building was appropriate, but I'll let
him speak for that.
Mr. Hernandez: Yeah, I was going to essentially repeat the same thing. I mean, I
came in with no prejudice to this situation.
Chair Russell: Mm-hmm.
Mr. Hernandez: And I spent one year in the building and at all of the archives I
could find, and they waited for me. The team waited for me; sometimes
frustratingly. But when I said, It is my professional opinion " -- and I read you the
pertinent quote of the National Register Bulletin -- that this building has lost its
integrity, doesn't mean it's lost its historic import; it's lost its integrity. The way
which we continued its historic import is by the annexation of those
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) fabrics into the interpretation and new spaces. This is a sheet
of the submittal, the --for the second HEP submittal, which very clearly showed in
blue the elements that were being rescued for this notion of interpretation, the
whole front building, and then the other pieces inside.
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Chair Russell: Thank you very much. We're short a few Commissioners, but we do
have a quorum. Is Commissioner Hardemon nearby? Any other questions from
other Commissioners?
Commissioner Reyes: Yes. I have questions for Mr. Garcia. Francisco, in your
opinion, do you agree with the project that the -- or you don't -- you don't agree
with the project of--?
Mr. Garcia: That is a broad question.
Commissioner Reyes: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) yes or no. I mean --
Mr. Garcia: Right. I know you always prefer to answer -- `yes" or "no" answers,
and I think what is fair and correct to do is just simply rely on the record that has
been presented to you; staff analysis and the record that the City has presented to
you, the Preservation Office and the Planning Department by extension,
recommends approval of the project presented by the County, subject to the
conditions manifest on the record. I'd like to add one possible explanation as to
how to better understand and put in context the apparent discrepancy between the
first approval by the HEP Board and the -- and whether or not that demolition
element was included. It is typical -- and I think it was part of a narrative of the
appellant -- it is certainly typical and within the purview of the HEP Board to want
to ensure that they reserve as much leeway as they possibly can for future
considerations of items before them, and it would certainly be in keeping with their
actions to try to preserve the building for as long as they can to prevent premature
demolition, because once the building is demolished, the building can no longer
really feasibly be reconstructed.
Commissioner Reyes: But --
Mr. Garcia: And so, you know, I'll say briefly, it is very much consistent with how
the Historic and Environmental Preservation Board operates to -- when faced with
an application in the abstract, a conceptual application, to provide favorable
guidance and to encourage the applicant to proceed further, but reserve the right to
finally approve the demolition until that point in time in which they are willing to
commit to --
Commissioner Reyes: Sir --
Mr. Garcia: -- a plan submitted
Commissioner Reyes: Excuse me, but I don't want you to justify the action of the
HEP Board or --
Mr. Garcia: I'm not.
Commissioner Reyes: -- other board. My question is the following: You see, given
all the -- what you have heard and what the County has presented, the plan, and the
years that we have been -- I mean, that this had been closed, and the merit of the
project itself, do you agree with it? Are you in favor of -- I mean, you
recommended that we go and adopt the -- accept the County plan?
Mr. Garcia: Our recommendation is to --
Commissioner Reyes: Okay. That's fine. Now, the only thing that I wanted to hear
was your recommendation; that's it.
Mr. Garcia: Our recommendation is to support the --
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Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
Mr. Garcia: -- plan presented by the County, and there are conditions attached to
it --
Commissioner Reyes: Thankyou.
Mr. Garcia: -- in our staff report.
Commissioner Reyes: Thankyou, sir.
Mr. Garcia: My pleasure.
Chair Russell: Commissioner Gort.
Vice Chair Gort: I've been very quiet, but I just want to give a little history. I came
to Miami in 1952; many of you were not born at that time. I visited West Grove
back in '67, when I was a student at Miami High, and I was elected for the first time
in City Commission citywide in 1993. Being Citywide Commissioner, I had to deal
with Coconut Grove and all the neighborhoods within the City of Miami. Let me
tell you, I've been hearing this same thing now --I went away in 2001. I stay away
for 10 years. I'm coming back; I'm hearing the same arguments once and once
again. We got to make a decision today, people, because, let me tell you, if we
don't take a decision today, this is going to stay forever the way it is.
Chair Russell: I agree. I agree. I'd like to do so with a little more robust of a
board, so we have the -- I know that the Commissioners do care about this; they
spent the whole day here. So I know we've got one in the men's room, but for me, I
believe in consensus. I believe in compromise. And Commissioner Gort said this
the last time at the deferral, that he wanted to see the sides get together. And I
know there is only one side that we're meant to contemplate here today; it's the
applicant; it's who becomes the appellant, and the plan that they have, but I don't
know that they've ever considered or been willing to consider the other plan. And
since there's no other side at this lectern, there's no cross-examination, because
there is no intervener who has another plan, it just simply hasn't been considered;
instead, you've got a cobbling together of residents, historians, and architects who
are yelling to be heard in the two minutes that they can piece together that there is
another option that hasn't been considered. But I don't believe that we are held to
the State's DHR standards, but we do need -- we are -- it is within our purview to
care about it and what the effects of our decision have on our National Registration
status. And one of the statements in that letter from the DHR on March 2019 was,
"Since the playhouse is a State-owned property" -- the provisions of Section
267.06128, Florida Statutes, related to the resolution of adverse effects -- "apply to
the proposed project, this directs State agencies to determine that no feasible and
prudent alternative to the proposed demolition or alteration exists, and where no
such alternative is determined to exist to assure that timely steps are taken either to
avoid or mitigate the adverse effect. " And the letter goes on basically to say that,
"The plan, under its current plan, would lead to the removal from the national
designation; that it's not consistent with a lot of these standards, " but that there is
potential opportunity for it to be acceptable if every other plan has been
considered, but it doesn't seem that they ever were. I believe the County had a plan
from the start which involved the demolition of the theater, and partial demolition
is an option, preservation, but only after you have exhausted all options of
restoration, I believe. But I'm not going to send us away here with just a "no. " We
have to come to a decision. I believe we have to come to a compromise. And I'm
going to pass the gavel to Commissioner Gort and give this a try. Maybe it sticks;
maybe it doesn't. Maybe I get a second; maybe I get a third. But I believe we need
to come together, and I believe we need to move forward, because there are no
villains here. There's a lot of practical plans here that the County has made, but
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somebody has to be the champion for preservation; somebody has to care about
this. And the other reason I passed the gavel is because if we get this wrong, that
gavel is going to become the wrecking ball that takes down the last remaining,
major historic structure in Coconut Grove that we care about. But the County does
have a plan. They do have a budget. They are moving forward with something
here, and it's not all bad. So if the compromise is we look at where we do agree, or
where all sides do agree, everybody believes in the total preservation of that front
structure, that front building. The compromise has been made on the garage, and I
do have to give absolute credit to the County; they've absolutely changed their plan
to be more in scale in the massing with the surrounding buildings. But I don't
believe in the demolition of the auditorium. Commissioner Hardemon, you missed
it while, I believe, you were out that our own Preservation Officer believes that it
has historic integrity with that auditorium in place, that it has significance, and
removal of it has an effect; it has an impact. We are here today to make this
decision, which I believe would allow the County to move forward with the
preservation of the front building, with the construction of the garage, but we got to
keep talking on this auditorium, because I believe preservation is where it should
go. The only structure that I could see meriting partial demolition or demolition
would be that Coco Lopez Building, which would preclude you from building the
garage appropriately, or the plaza next to it, and the retail and restaurant. So it
would be my motion to approve the appeal in part with regard to the plan that has
to do with the preservation of the front structure and the building of the garage,
and the demolition of that building that we call the Coco Lopez building, but to
deny in part the appeal with regard to demolition of the auditorium structure. I'm
not speaking to what goes on inside, how many seats, who the operator is, who the
architecture is. This is simply a hearing about historic preservation. This is not a
romantic notion. No matter how much I care about it or what I feel about it; we
have a legal responsibility to historic preservation here, and if we get this wrong,
we get it wrong forever. It's coming up on its hundredth birthday, and I believe
there is a way that we can all work together, and the County can achieve its goals
without demolishing the rear theater. So that would be my motion, and I do hope
for a second --
Commissioner Reyes: Mr. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) --
Chair Russell: -- and maybe even a third.
Vice Chair Gort. There's a motion. Is there a second?
Commissioner Hardemon: I'll second.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Commissioner.
Vice Chair Gort: Second.
Commissioner Reyes: Mr. Chair?
Vice Chair Gort: Discussion. Under discussion.
Commissioner Reyes: Mr. Chair, I heard you, Commissioner Russell, but we're not
talking here about destroying the whole building. What we're saying is that we're
going to preserve the main part of the building, and there's going to be a new --
brand-new and functionable auditorium. But you also mentioned that there is no
other alternative that has been considered. Well, from what I heard -- and I want
Mayor Gimenez -- they have been -- have you been approached by somebody else?
And what had happened when there were some other people that they were saying
that they have a plan, and they were going to get money and funds and all that?
What had happened to that? Because I -- the only proposal that I have seen, it is
the County. I haven't seen any other proposal. I have seen -- "Well, we are going
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to raise 140 million" -- "40 -some million. " Why haven't you done it? Been 13
years with that, and nobody has done anything on it.
Mayor Gimenez: Commissioner, if I can answer your question, let me repeat what
I said when I got up the first time. I -- it was an impassioned speech. I was very
impressed. I would have been very impressed had I not heard it for four years. So
to say that we have not looked at alternatives is flat out wrong. We've been talking
to those people, the same people, for years, and we've been very open. If you can
raise the money to do what you want to do, " because it'll undoubtedly cost a heck
of a lot more, "we'll be willing to listen to you. " This same Commission, you all, in
December of '17, asked the same people, and gave them an ultimate, and said,
"Raise $20 million by April. " They raised nothing. And so, we're going to be
going back to the same well again; a compromise. First of all, we are not here to
build a parking structure. We're not here to just rehabilitate something that's not
the theater. Our charge is to bring back world-class regional theater to Coconut
Grove. This compromise does not do that. It doesn't assure anything, because it
says we can rehabilitate the front building, which I'd love to do, exactly what we
wanted, which is the -- what people think is the Coconut Grove Theater, and build a
parking garage. That's not our charge. Our charge is to bring back a theater. You
know, one of the images that we don't look very much to is actually what is that
theater, and what does it look like? And it's not a very attractive piece of
architecture right now. The proposal that we have is funded. We have been at this
for years and years and years. We have absolutely had our doors open to other
proposals. We have not shut the door on them. We have looked at a 700 -seat
theater. This same group came with a 700 -seat theater, which, by the way, would
have demolished the structure. They would have demolished the auditorium. They
had no plans to keep the auditorium, until now it becomes a vehicle to delay us one
more time. And we -- like I said, our charge is to bring back theater to Coconut
Grove. This is the one plan, the only plan that is viable, that restores the
architectural features, that restores what we consider to be Coconut Grove
Playhouse back to its 1927 look and feel, and functionality of the front building. It
will bring back a 300 -seat theater; modern theater that actually works. It will have
a new parking structure. It will connect to West Grove. It'll have parks, it'll have
green spaces, and we can get it built. Unfortunately, Commissioner, for four years
now, the other group has not shown the financial capability to build anything.
They have not shown the financial capability to raise anything, any amount of
money; although they say they can raise hundreds of millions of dollars; you know,
tens of millions of dollars. We have asked them -- not one cent has been added to
this project from anybody else but Miami -Dade County. I would hope you take that
in consideration and approve our appeal.
Commissioner Reyes: And --
Vice Chair Gort: Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Commissioner Reyes: -- to end, I just want to make one thing clear. With all due
respect, Commissioner, in Spanish there is a saying, "No se puede cadar bien con
Dios y con el diablo." You see? You -- I mean, what we have here is the only --
either you accept that or you go against it, but you cannot say, "Okay. Partially,
yes; partially, no. " You see? You cannot serve two masters the same way, and that
is my opinion. You either are with it or you're against it, but -- That's it.
Vice Chair Gort: Thank you, Commissioner.
Commissioner Carollo: Well, so --
Vice Chair Gort: Any further discussion?
Commissioner Carollo: -- that, Commissioner --
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Vice Chair Gort: Commissioner Carollo --
Commissioner Carollo: -- Hardemon could understand --
Vice Chair Gort: --you're recognized.
Commissioner Carollo: -- what was said -- Thank you.
Commissioner Hardemon: I heard, "diablo. "
Commissioner Carollo: Yeah. I don't want you to think something else was said.
This is -- let me give you the more politically correct translation. "You can't serve
two masters at the same time. "
Commissioner Hardemon: At the same time, okay. But certainly, "diablo" does
not mean that.
Commissioner Carollo: Well, to some people it does.
Commissioner Reyes: That's right.
Commissioner Carollo: But I've heard a lot here today. I heard a lot the last time
we met in December on this issue, where we gave an -- "A" amount of time for the
$20 million that I heard here was going to be raised. I'm going to tell you the one
thing that has concerned me the most today here that I've heard from anyone, and
that is the nice chap; the gentleman with the $2 million that he claims he's got in
his back pocket. I hope that we could afford, Mr. Manager, to send a couple of
those police officers that we have with military rifles to get him home safely,
because having announced to the world that he's got a couple of million dollars in
his back pocket does concern me if he could get home or not. This is Miami, but in
any city in the world, that could be a problem. Having said that, I do wish he
would have been more successful at raising some of that 20 million early on, which
wasn't the case. You know, everyone has their talent. He's more successful in
fundraising for people running for office and getting elected, but that doesn't
translate always into being able to be a good fundraiser for projects like this. I
have heard many fine arguments. I think they're coming all from sincere people.
But I'm also a realist enough -- and I'm not going to go into my own history with
the playhouse; that's not what's at issue here, but what I am is a realist. And what I
see is that if we don't do something today that maybe might not be what everybody
wants, but it's certainly going to be something that we're going to feel proud of, it's
going to keep the true historic part of the playhouse there, and it's going to improve
that whole area of the Grove instead of leaving it as the eyesore that it is now. If
we don't do that today, it's not going to happen at all. So I'd rather have a well -
thought -out plan that on the financial side is going to work than have nothing at all
that is not going to help that part of the Grove in one bit, and this is why I would be
voting against your motion, Commissioner.
Chair Russell: Understood. Commissioner Gort.
Vice Chair Gort: As I was stating before, I served here from '93 to 2001. This
conversation and in different plans have been in front of us for 10 years, when I
was here for eight years. I went away 10 years. I come back in 2001. I'm hearing
the same arguments, the same people with a different proposal. I don't think it's
our intention to not declare a -- maintain the historical part of this theater. I think
it's very important. We need to do something. I mean, we've had an RFP that went
out in the '90s. Some people answered the RFP. We were in court. I don't know
how many times we've been in court delaying whatever new idea came up, and
that's what I'm telling you. I've seen this. This is the same pictures. I remember,
we used to have meetings, late '90s. We used to have it at the theater. Sometimes
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you got to be very careful where you walk through, because of the structures that
were there when you were in the meetings. You know, let's get realistic. I think we
all want to maintain our history, and I think we voted for a lot of the
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) places to maintain it historical, and this continue -- this can
continue to be a historical site, like always, and it should be. And that's the reason
why I don't want to delay it anymore.
Chair Russell: Commissioner -- I mean, Vice Chairman. And just to clary my
motion, I'm not looking to delay or say -- when I said, "Let's keep talking. " By
denying the actual portion of demolition, it forces the County to simply adjust that
part of their plan to include the original shell and structure. They can change the -
Vice Chair Gort: Yes.
Chair Russell: --interior to their will. Well, they got to comeback --that's not
something the HEP Board weighs in on, but they would need to keep that structure.
Beyond that -- and something that was brought up at the last iteration of this
appeal, the last meeting, it was stated that the -- this couldn't be bifurcated. We
couldn't take half the plan and split it; it would mess up the lease with the State.
I've done some research, and I don't believe that to be true. I -- they have not have
-- they do not have an approved plan with the State right now. What we agree with
them and what they put forth is what will be presented to the State. For them to
phase this and start the garage tomorrow, which everyone in the Grove needs right
now, would give the time for further fundraising to help do the full plan that would
involve preservation of the back building, as well. They can also begin now with
the funding they have, without bifurcating, changing the lease, or anything, and
start meeting deadlines on the front structure. There are plenty of 1920s buildings
out there that are doing just fine, and you know why? Because people keep the air
conditioning on, they fix the roof, and they don't let vandals in their homes. We are
being pushed into a urgent decision to save this building, because it has
experienced demolition by neglect by its current leaseholder, by its tenant, and I
don't think that's an excuse for us to say, "Well, we've just got to do whatever they
want at this point. " I don't think the threats about the money, I don't think the
insulting accusation on our board member, I don't think any of those are
appropriate, and I don't think it's part of my motion. All we're talking about is the
historic preservation and a compromised plan that allows them to move forward
now and do what's important for this community in terms of preservation and the
garage, and they can -- they -- but they have to preserve the back building. That's
my motion. And they can move forward.
Vice Chair Gort: Move it.
Chair Russell: This doesn't cripple them, this doesn't stop them, and it doesn't send
it back to the drawing board.
Vice Chair Gort: Its moved, and it's been second. Any further discussion?
Chair Russell: Can I get a --
Commissioner Hardemon: Roll call.
Chair Russell: -- roll call for this?
Vice Chair Gort: Sure. Yes, Mr. Mayor. You're recognized.
Mayor Gimenez: Further comment?
Vice Chair Gort: Mr. Mayor, you're recognized.
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Mayor Gimenez: If I can comment? Thank you for your indulgence. With all due
respect, Mr. Chairman, it sounds very good, except you don't have the money, we
don't have the money to save the shell. So when you look at the entire plan -- this
has always been about the financing. The money is not there to save the shell.
Even if it were there to save the shell or the auditorium component, it does not work
for modern theater. The fly -- what do you call those -- the fly tower, all right,
would be -- would have to be elevated, because the current fly tower isn't tall
enough. The elements -- there are elements that have to go through the roof, the
ceiling, and there are truss members there. It doesn't work. That theater will not
work in its current -- in the current auditorium, and there's not the money to do it.
And so, again, it's -- I know it's -- you have a good intention, but it doesn't pass the
-- it doesn't --financially, it doesn't work.
Vice Chair Gort: Thank you. Any further discussion?
Commissioner Hardemon: One last (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Vice Chair Gort: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Hardemon: I would say that I admire our Chairman's zeal for
historic preservation and there's a lot of discussion about -- and obviously, what's
been presented to us most -- about what has been historically significant regarding
this site is this front building. I think, after much discussion, we've come to the
agreement that there are more than one structure -- there's more than one structure
on this site. And, you know, I think there is -- there was a bit of ambiguity in what
structure was it that was needed to be partially demolished in the resolution that
the HEP Board passed. This is especially true where we're describing that there
are multiple buildings and -- in fact, one of the buildings, which is the front facgade
-- which includes the front facgade, that when most people think about the theater,
they see, I would have thought that that would have been what was going to be
partially demolished, but it is not. I mean, I think in --just in plain reading of
things, there was not even a true -- especially in -- once we've gone through -- and
the details of it all -- we've -- we look at Paragraph 11 on Page 2, there is, in fact,
no demolition permit, and that's probably why the County or the -- those bodies did
not partially demolish any of these structures, because I found in what I've seen is
that any time there's a demolition permit, they get to demolishing, because having a
building there that could possibly be stopped by a body like this from being
demolished, because we have an interest in necessarily preserving structures is not
in your best interest. You -- the moment you get the approval, you use it because
you could, you know. If you don't believe you have the approval, you could lose it.
So, you know, I look at the demolition of this thing. Its very interesting concept.
So I really do admire the Chairman and what he's trying to do. We have a
structure in Overtown that is about 400 seats, that is a historic theater, and it's
called the Lyric Theater, and but for some work from really, I mean, a historian in
our community, that theater would be gone. At the time that it was rescued -- and
this was with the help of Miami -Dade County and Mr. Michael Spring, so I will
acknowledge that. This is a theater that was saved, but what's interesting about it
is that -- and, you know, things have been added onto it. We have some ojfice
spaces, where the Southeast Overtown/Park West Community Redevelopment
Agency houses itself today. It has a wonderful outside courtyard area, where we
have events out there. It is a space that is now giving people a reason to come back
to that space, and had it been lost, it would be tragic. And there are a number of
structures like that that are in Overtown that we have preserved; the Clyde Killens
Pool Hall. I believe that the X -Ray Clinic is going to be next. The Lawson E.
Thomas building has been stabilized, and we look to redevelop that space.
Chair Russell: Dorsey.
Commissioner Hardemon: Of course, the -- Yeah, the Dorsey Library. I mean,
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that's a wonderful project that we've kept. The people call it the Black Police
Precinct, but I think what was most unique about it was that you had a black judge
that was in that space, so it was the first black courthouse, where you -- you know,
you had a black judge presiding over issues for black people; where you had people
who were not considered policemen, but they were of color. They call patrol, but I
think (UNINTELLIGIBLE) they called them at that time. They were allowed to
make arrests, and put their arrestee on a bicycle and brought them to the jail there,
until the City of Miami recognized that they could no longer keep officers separate
because of their color, and the City of Miami just didn't have the budget to keep it
going. And so, they allowed police officers to -- black police officers, or patrolmen,
to join the police force. You also have the church that's on 3rd Avenue. You know,
that was a historic preservation project. Right now it is one of the venues in
Overtown that provide training to the residents, so they can learn hospitality skills
and such. So you have structures that have a fiscal role, I think, in the community,
but then you also have structures that have just a historical significance role. We
just finished also renovating and preserving the -- our first black millionaire's home
-- right? -- in Overtown. I mean, this gentleman owned Star Island. It would have
been named after him, had it not been taken, I guess, from Miami -Dade -- by
Miami -Dade County. So, you know, these are wonderful things that I think when
people understand what they truly mean to a community, they're going to drive
tourism, they're going to drive traffic, they're going to drive people to a space. And
I'm not saying that this space is a space that people need to be drawn to, but I'm
sure it would be appreciated. And so, when I look at all of this, I can understand
why the Chairman would want to preserve, but I also understand why our County
Mayor and his staff want to use the dollars that they've had -- that they've collected
to restore, to build new structures, to add a life, to give this space some opportunity
to really do something positive. I mean, there are many spaces I believe, for
instance, in parts of my district that need that type of support. I'm an advocate for
it, actually. So when I think about some of the things that the County has done or is
doing in parts of my district, where we don't have a strong base for commercial
development or for theater, or for all these things, and, you know, instead, we're
getting buildings that are going to provide -- and I don't know; Mayor probably
doesn't want to hear anything about dogs and cats -- but free spading and neutering
in neighborhoods where -- you know, I can't buy a dog collar, but can get one for
free, and I think those types of things don't do anything beneficial for a
neighborhood that is -- should be on the rise instead of on a further decline. And
so, I welcome the construction of new structures. Instead of building a place to
where I'm giving things out for free, I'll build a structure that has a two-story
commercial element and let people with small businesses move in them, because
they can't afford to build the structures on vacant land I think those are the things
that we need to be doing; really trying to use spaces to reinvigorate a community.
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) obviously, the Grove is not one of those places that
necessarily has lots of vacant lots that need -- well, I'll put that differently. The
Grove is a space that people want to live. The Grove is a space where the land
value is steadily increasing. The Grove is a space where I think people will
continue to come, no matter which way that this building or these buildings are
constructed. And so, I've never been to the theater. I don't even know it was a
space for black people back in the day.
Chair Russell: It was not.
Commissioner Hardemon: I can imagine so. Maybe if you -- could you park cars?
Maybe you could park cars.
Chair Russell: They could build it. The Bahamians built it but were not allowed in
it until 1974.
Commissioner Hardemon: Okay. I've heard of spaces like that before. So, you
know -- but it's -- but you had people of color come here and describe how
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important it is, the architecture was to the community; how important it was to
have that theater there, even though they couldn't participate back in the day when
it was, I guess, significant to the community that visited it. In fact, I think I
remember one of the presentations -- in the presentation they -- the whites who
were actors were performing in black face, right? All these things still lead
someone who is of color to say that I was significant. The building was
historically significant. The structure was historically significant. " And so, that's
why I think that I'll lend my support to the Chairman, because I think it's an
opportunity -- Now, the Mayor says that I know for a fact -- and this is the
difference between I think the last time I heard about this and the first time. The
Chairman says that he's not saying on the inside how many seats you need to have,
how it needs to be built out. He's saying that the structure itself, the outer
structure, should include the preservation of the old -- I guess that -- it would be the
theater.
Chair Russell: Auditorium.
Commissioner Hardemon: Oh, the auditorium? Okay. The last time I heard about
this, they were saying that the auditorium had to hold so many seats, and then that
was not financially feasible. But I don't think the research has been done to
determine whether or not just the structure, which has been described on the record
are outer walls, possibly a roof -- I could imagine it, because at the -- in the Lyric
Theater, the roof was not there. So what was, you know, structurally important
there were the walls. That's what made it what it was. And then there was a facgade
on one of the walls that was put by one of the lawyers -- Oh, no. It was the -- or
maybe the architect that, you know, was easily recognized as what -- the theater
entrance, et cetera. So I don't think that much of what the Chairman is asking is a
hard lift, and I think it has to come back to -- it probably has to go back to the HEP
Board to determine what is the next step, because we've given some direction
towards it. And so, at least at this juncture, where there hasn't been any
significant, real, true research into what it will cost to keep the walls of the theater,
I'll vote with the Chairman.
Mr. Kerbel: Commissioner, may I respond?
Vice Chair Gort: Excuse me. You got to go through the Chair.
Mr. Kerbel: Sorry. Through the Chair.
Vice Chair Gort: My understanding, the presentation today has shown that the
middle part of the theater has had some --a lot of changes taking place. That's one
of the reasons that we discuss it; that they lost some of the historical value, the
middle of the shell, because all the different change that have taken place.
Unidentified Speaker: That's right.
Vice Chair Gort: So --
Commissioner Hardemon: But that's --
Vice Chair Gort: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) --
Commissioner Hardemon: -- why Mr. -- that's what I was describing. When I saw
the pictures and everything that was described on the record, where the seats --
how the seats were added, and the columns were moved, and you had a second
balcony that was added, it really perverted the interior, but as I heard on the
record, we're not here to discuss the interior; we're just talking about the exterior
structure. So I think that was like a -- almost like a fine-tuning of what the
argument was about, and I just -- that's what I heard. You know, I'm not nee -- I
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think that's something that we all should consider, but surely, I mean, we're allowed
to vote the way that we want.
Commissioner Reyes: And I'm going to go a step forward -- I mean, farther [sic].
The Chairman is basing his decision and his motion on the opinion of the HEP
Board. And right here we have -- there have been -- I mean, have been determined
that it's not the original; it's not the original auditorium that has been renovated,
that had been changed, and all of that. And I don't know what criteria does the
HEP Board has, and I'm going to ask them. That they say that it has so much
historic value, okay? Whatever -- whoever is going to come in there and is going to
renovate there, they will have to turn it down, because according to engineers, it is
not feasible to do it. I think that what has been presented is logical and it is
manageable; also, I think it's sustainable. And one thing that I'm very afraid of is -
- and I want to have the commitment from the County that the City of Miami will
not subsidize any operation of that theater -- I mean, the playhouse, because as you
well know, every time that the City of Miami, we have engaged in any, any
ownership of any venue, theater, James L. Knight, we had always subsidized it, and
you know that too, because --
Mayor Gimenez: Yes.
Commissioner Reyes: -- the County is subsidizing the Arsht Center, you see.
Mayor Gimenez: Yes.
Commissioner Reyes: I mean, how much --
Mayor Gimenez: You are, too.
Commissioner Reyes: Huh? And I am too --
Mayor Gimenez: You are too.
Commissioner Reyes: -- because with my taxes, I'm subsidizing it.
Mayor Gimenez: No, no. I'm saying the City is, too.
Commissioner Reyes: That the City too, but --
Mayor Gimenez: I think the global agreement has the CRA giving to the --
Commissioner Reyes: Paying taxes to subsidize all of that. And I want something
to be built that is sustainable, that it is attractive, and I am very much for historic
preservation for those buildings that have history and should be preserved, and
they're functional. You see?
Mayor Gimenez: We --
Commissioner Reyes: I'm all for it.
Mayor Gimenez: -- will stipulate that --
Vice Chair Gort: Excuse me, excuse me. Thank you, Commissioner. You're
recognized, sir.
Mayor Gimenez: -- the City -- the County will not be reaching out to the City for
any operational support if the County's plan is approved.
Commissioner Carollo: Call the question, Mr. Chairman.
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Vice Chair Gort: Okay. Thank you. Roll call.
Todd B. Hannon (City Clerk): Roll call on Item SP. 1: Commissioner Carollo?
Commissioner Carollo: No.
Mr. Hannon: Commissioner Reyes?
Commissioner Reyes: Nope.
Mr. Hannon: Commissioner Hardemon?
Commissioner Hardemon: For.
Mr. Hannon: Commissioner Russell?
Chair Russell: Yes.
Mr. Hannon: Commissioner Gort?
Vice Chair Gort: For the reasons stated before, no.
Mr. Hannon: The motion fails, 2-3.
Commissioner Carollo: If I can make a motion of approving the County's request.
If I need to word it in any other way, Mr. City Attorney?
Mr. Greco: It would be a motion to reverse the decision of the HEP Board and
approve the County's Certificate of Appropriateness, pursuant to Chapter 23.
Commissioner Carollo: Okay.
Mr. Garcia: And may I request that the conditions that were set forth in the record
be added? I don't think there are any objections from the applicant.
Vice Chair Gort: Right. Can we have some amendments to make sure that it's
maintained historical?
Mr. Garcia: They're on the record, sir.
Vice Chair Gort: Okay.
Commissioner Carollo: Okay. So there's a motion; you heard the City Attorney. It
will be with the amendment the Planning Director stipulated that the Mayor
offered. Is there a second?
Commissioner Reyes: Yeah, second.
Commissioner Carollo: There's a second. We've done all the discussion we can,
and we got a long day tomorrow, also.
Commissioner Reyes: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Carollo: Can we call the question?
Commissioner Hardemon: But you know I like seeing you here, Commissioner
Carollo. Why not talk more? This is the only time we can talk in person, you know.
Let's do this.
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Commissioner Carollo: I appreciate that, my Chairman. You're my favorite
Chairman out of all the Chairmans [sic] we got here.
Commissioner Hardemon: He says that to all the Chairmans [sic], don't worry
about it.
Commissioner Carollo: That's an in-house joke.
Commissioner Hardemon: That's what he told me (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Commissioner Carollo: That's an in-house joke.
Chair Russell: My only concern -- and I just have one comment. You did get a
second, correct?
Commissioner Carollo: Yes.
Chair Russell: Seconded. Discussion, Vice Chair?
Vice Chair Gort: Sure.
Chair Russell: The bond that was approved, if it's -- if the wording in the ballot
was "reconstruct" and "restore, " does this plan follow that, and is it open to
challenge that this bond is being allocated to reconstruction and restoration if
demolition is the plan?
Mr. Kerbel: As I mentioned in my presentation, our view has long been that this
project is completely consistent with the bond referendum.
Commissioner Carollo: Well, as I found out coming back to the City, any fool that
wants to throw money away could challenge anything, and I see that happen all the
time.
Commissioner Reyes: I would like --
Commissioner Carollo: Even for mental anguish, they want $10 million these days,
because they stay up all night, they claim.
Commissioner Reyes: Can I make an amendment that if it is accepted, that the City
of Miami will not incur any costs of operations or construction?
Commissioner Carollo: Well, that was offered by the County, but if you want to --
Commissioner Reyes: I want to make it clear. You know, it's trust, but verified.
Mayor Gimenez: We agree.
Commissioner Reyes: That's it. Okay.
Commissioner Carollo: So the amendment will be --
Mayor Gimenez: I'm sorry. Excuse me. Is the Miami Parking Authority included
in that? Because they're apart of this deal.
Commissioner Reyes: No. Miami Parking Authority is an independent agency.
Mayor Gimenez: Fair enough. I'm talking City of Miami, any operational --
Commissioner Reyes: City of Miami operational --
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Mayor Gimenez: -- construction --
Commissioner Reyes: -- construction will not incur a single penny.
Mayor Gimenez: We agree to that.
Commissioner Carollo: Okay, I accept the amendments. So it should be the
amendment as stated by Commissioner Reyes, along with the proffer by Mayor
Gimenez for the County, that they will bear all the costs. So this way, it's clear
from us and it's clear from them; it's clear to everybody.
Chair Russell: Thank you.
Commissioner Carollo: Call the question.
Chair Russell: There's been a motion and a second. For no further discussion, I'd
like a roll call, please.
Mr. Hannon: Do you have the gavel back now?
Chair Russell: I do.
Mr. Hannon: Okay. Thank you; just want to make sure. Roll call on Item SP. 1:
Commissioner Gort?
Vice Chair Gort: Yes.
Mr. Hannon: Commissioner Hardemon?
Commissioner Hardemon: Against.
Mr. Hannon: Commissioner Reyes?
Commissioner Reyes: Yes.
Commissioner Hardemon: Commissioner Carollo?
Commissioner Carollo: Yes.
Mr. Hannon: Commissioner Russell?
Chair Russell: No. And that was "against" or a `yes"? I couldn't --
Commissioner Hardemon: I don't say ' yes. "
Chair Russell: You said 'yes " or you said "against"?
Commissioner Hardemon: I never say 'yes. "
Chair Russell: Oh, you said -- you say 'for " or "against, " is that correct?
Commissioner Hardemon: That is correct.
Chair Russell: So that was marked as an "against. "
Mr. Hannon: Motion passes, 4-1.
Chair Russell: No, no, 3-2. `Against" is what he said.
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Mr. Hannon: You said "against. "
Commissioner Hardemon: That's what I use.
Chair Russell: He never says `yes, " and he never says "no. " He says `for, " and
he says "against. " That's why I asked for a clarification.
Commissioner Hardemon: You've been with me for six year; just six years.
Mr. Hannon: Okay. Motion passes, 3-2.
Chair Russell: Thank you very much.
Mayor Gimenez: Thank you for your time.
(Applause)
SP.2 ATTORNEY-CLIENT SESSION
5843 UNDER THE PARAMETERS OF SECTION 286.011(8), FLORIDA
Office of the City STATUTES, A PRIVATE ATTORNEY-CLIENT SESSION WILL BE
Attorney CONDUCTED AT A SPECIAL MIAMI CITY COMMISSION MEETING
TO BE HELD MAY 8, 2019, AT 9:00 A.M. THE PERSON CHAIRING
THE CITY OF MIAMI SPECIAL COMMISSION MEETING WILL
ANNOUNCE THE COMMENCEMENT OF AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT
SESSION, CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC, FOR PURPOSES OF
DISCUSSING THE PENDING LITIGATION IN THE MATTER OF
FLAGSTONE ISLAND GARDENS, LLC AND FLAGSTONE
DEVELOPMENT CORP. V. CITY OF MIAMI, CASE NO. 17-13829 CA
44, PENDING IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE ELEVENTH JUDICIAL
CIRCUIT IN AND FOR MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, TO WHICH THE CITY
IS PRESENTLY A PARTY. THE SUBJECT OF THE MEETING WILL BE
CONFINED TO SETTLEMENT NEGOTIATIONS OR STRATEGY
SESSIONS RELATED TO LITIGATION EXPENDITURES. THIS
PRIVATE MEETING WILL BEGIN AT APPROXIMATELY 9:00 A.M. (OR
AS SOON THEREAFTER AS THE COMMISSIONERS' SCHEDULES
PERMIT) AND CONCLUDE APPROXIMATELY ONE HOUR LATER.
THE SESSION WILL BE ATTENDED BY THE MEMBERS OF THE CITY
COMMISSION, WHICH INCLUDE CHAIRMAN KEN RUSSELL, VICE-
CHAIRMAN WIFREDO "WILLY" GORT, AND COMMISSIONERS JOE
CAROLLO, MANOLO REYES, AND KEON HARDEMON; CITY
MANAGER EMILIO T. GONZALEZ; GONZALO DORTA, ESQ.; MATIAS
DORTA ESQ.; LAURA BESVINICK, ESQ.; AND JULIE NEVINS, ESQ. A
CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER WILL BE PRESENT TO ENSURE
THAT THE SESSION IS FULLY TRANSCRIBED AND THE
TRANSCRIPT WILL BE MADE PUBLIC UPON THE CONCLUSION OF
THE ABOVE-CITED, ONGOING LITIGATION. AT THE CONCLUSION
OF THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT SESSION, THE SPECIAL COMMISSION
MEETING WILL BE REOPENED AND THE PERSON CHAIRING THE
SPECIAL COMMISSION MEETING WILL ANNOUNCE THE
TERMINATION OF THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT SESSION.
RESULT: DISCUSSED
Chair Russell: Good morning. I'd like to welcome County Mayor Carlos Gimenez.
Thank you for being with its this morning; you're very welcome. And at this time, the
City Attorney will read the statement with regard to the shade meeting we have to do,
yeah?
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Victoria Mendez (City Attorney): Thank you, Chairman. I'll read the procedures
after while you're all going up just to save some time, but this is the script for the
attorney-client session. Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, pursuant
to the provisions of 286.011(8), Florida Statutes, at the City Commission meeting of
April 25, 2019, I requested an attorney-client session, closed to the public, be held
for purposes of discussing the pending litigation in the matter of Flagstone Island
Gardens, LLC (Limited Liability Company) and Flagstone Development Corp.
versus City of Miami, Case Number 17-13829 CA 44, pending in the Circuit Court
of the Eleventh Judicial Circuit, in and for Miami -Dade County, to which the City is
presently a party. The subject of this meeting will be confined to settlement
negotiations or strategy sessions related to litigation expenditures. The meeting
will begin at approximately 9:30, and will conclude approximately one hour later.
The session will be attended by the members of the City Commission, which include
Chairman Ken Russell, Vice Chairman Wifredo Gort, Commissioners Keon
Hardemon, Joe Carollo, and Manolo Reyes; City Manager Emilio Gonzalez;
Attorneys Gonzalo Dorta, Mattias Dorta, Laura Besvinick, and Julie Nevins. A
certified court reporter will be present to ensure the session is fully transcribed,
and the transcript will be made public upon conclusion of the litigation. At the
conclusion of the attorney-client session, the regular Commission meeting will be
reopened, and the Chairman will announce the termination of the attorney-client
session. Thank you.
Chair Russell: Thank you, Madam City Attorney. And so, just to translate all that,
we'll be back as soon as possible. The Commission is going to meet in shade.
That's where the Commissioners deal with legal strategy with our counsel and
Administration, but that shouldn't take too long, I hope, and I appreciate your
patience, but then we'll have full time to address the main issue of the day. Thank
you very much. We'll be back soon.
NMI MEN film ►yil;IQIl►[L7
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 7:27p.in.
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