HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1974-12-19 MinutesMINUTES OF CITY OF MIAMI COMMITTEE OF flij. WOLE
(t1PM' ERS OF THE P1IAMI CITY Cot- 1t ;stnm)
CONVENED FOR THE PUPPOSE OF i !IE
INVESTIGATION
OF
CITY OF I'IIAMI POLICE DEPARTMENT
MEETING:
DEC 191974 /
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
H. D. SOUTHERN
CITY CLERK
RALPH G. ONGIE
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
MIAMI CITY COMMISSION
SITTING AS A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE TO INVESTIGATE
THE CITY OF MIAMI POLICE
DEPARTMENT
On the 19th day of December, 1974, the City Commission of Miami,
Florida, met at its regular meeting place at City Hall in said city sitting
as a Committee of the Whole to investigatematters pertaining to the morale,
efficiency and performance of the Miami Police Department, which investiga-
tion was continued at the meeting of November 27, 1974 to this date. The
Meeting was called to order at 9:40 o'clock A.M. with all members of the
Commission present.
Mayor Ferre: Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a special hearing on the
Police Department of the City of Miami. Ths is the third such hearing, and
you have before you a proposed agenda for today. As you will notice, it goes
more to the department and the functions of certain portions of the depart-
ment, and I hope today we will be able to get into, I guess, what is called
more of the nitty gritty of some of the internal functions of the various
departments. I want to repeat one more time that the intent of these special
hearings is not to embarrass anybody, or not to create problems. There are
no ulterior motives, other than to see that pertinent information is brought
out and made available to the City Commission and to the citizens of Miami so
that hopefully through this process we will be able to improve the police de-
partment, which is certainly one of the most important departments that the
City of Miami has, and that the citizens look toward in judging whether or not
we are doing a proper job and whether the City is functioning properly. During
the previous two hearings we met in all -day sessions. We went into areas which
were sometimes dramatic; sometimes they were exaggerated. I have been saying
all along, and I think it is essential to repeat over and over again the recog-
nition of the fact that this is not a trial; we are not a jury; that I am not a
judge; that there is no prosecutor here. This is not a court proceeding. We
are not here today passing final judgment or decisin on anything. We we are
doing is we are investigating; we are looking into. Now I am sure that many of
the results and outcomes of the things that we have begun to investigate will
end up quite diff,.ently from•the things that were stated. I might point out
that at this time the Commission has received two memorandums; one on the Ben
Taylor situation and the other on the Vershard situation, which, in the case of
Mr. Vershard implies, to me anyway, that perhaps Mr. Vershard may have indulged
in a little exaggeration, to put it mildly, and Ihave sent this to the State
Attorney's office with a letter from me asking the State Attorney to investi-
gate, and if there is any case that it might be perjury for him to pursue that.
Now I warned Professor Vershard, who came to me with his story, that if he stood
up on this stand he would do it under oath, and that he would be subject to pro-
secution if he didn't stick to the truth. I am not saying that he did or he
did not. I am saying, however, that a subsequent investigation of the Police
Department might indicate that there might be some discrepancies, and in all
fairness to those involved I mould imagine that the State Attorney's office will
proceed on that. That is not our responsibility. What is our responsibility is
to probe into the department in the hope of helping and seeking the truth, and
perhaps clarifying situations that have not heretofore been brought to light.
I think in that respect this Commission has been successful, and I think that
the continuation today is just another step in that direction. I might point
out that in my opinion, after this special hearing today, that we will have done
sufficient at this time and that from here on we should now await the appointing
of a new chief, and then give the new chief the opportunity to look into these
various matters that have been pointed out. I am sure if the new chief comes
from within the department he will be painfully aware of them a lot more than any
of us on this Commission, and I am sure we will have to give him the opportunity,
then, to go into these details. Since we have done this work, and since I think
it is pertinent, I think perhaps it is important to continue at this time. We
are in the holiday season, and that means for those that are Jewish last Sunday
Was the last day of Channuka and the Feast of Lights. for those of us who are
Christian, it's the season of advent. And I think both of those symbolism's are
important to consider in our process. The Fuast of Lights, because what
happened two thousand years ago was the cry of a group of people for religious
freedom. I think the symbolism of light is something which all of us in
government have to be aware of. That's why we keep stressing here in Florida
government in the sunshine. There are too many things that have been going
on in the Police Department and in other areas that have been in shadows, and
we are going to spread the light, and we are going to do it, if it is a little
candle we are going to do it here, and those that want to join and light their
candles, and hopefully --and I know sincerely, Mr. Andrews and members of th
administration, that we are not the only ones that want to light candles, and I
recognize --and want to say again publicly, that I recognize that you have
nothing but the best intentions, and Iassume that the administration that is
under your guidance has nothing but the best intentions. We lire in a different
age now where things cannot be done behind closed doors. We live in an age --and
I happen to be for it --where things are brought into the open and to the public
scrutiny. I recognize that a lot of people have been deeply wounded by such
things as Watergate , and with good reason. Watergate was a traumatic experience
for all American citizens, but the one saving grace that it had was, I think, the
reaffirmation before the eyes of the world that we in this country are not above
and beyond opening things up, even if it affects the most powerful man in the
nation, the President of the United States, to public scrutiny, and let the
truth come, and let it be a cleansing and correcting matter. I think that --I
am not saying that we have any Watergate in Miami. I am saying that for too
long we have tried to do things internally and for some reason or other it has not
worked out. We have problems, as the Manager has admitted. They are serious
problems. We brought some of them out. Some of them we have not been able to
bring out for many reasons, many of them the manager is aware of, and the
Acting Police Chief, and the top brass of the Police Department, and all of the
officers, that have not been broughtout. We all know where we are at, mcre or
less, and I think light is the key word, because with it we can proceed in a
known direction to correct the problems that we know exist. The second holiday
that we celebrate now is advent. Advent means the future, the coming, and of
course it is a reference to the coming of Jesus Christ; and for those of us that
are Christians, I think the idea that there is a future; that advent means that
we are going towards a salvation of some sort, I think is very much the keynote
to all that we are trying to do. That there is a future; that the City of
Miami does have a future; that the Police Department of Miami has a future; that
our problems are not insurmountable; that they can be cprrected; that they will
be corrected, and that the City of Miami will have --and I know that this bothers
a lot of people in the Police Department --but I happen to be very proud that we
have the best fre department in the United states, and I nave never heard anybody
claim that we have the best police department in the United States. I want some-
body to claim that we do have the best police department, and I want that claim
to be made in sincerety; not out of self-interest, but a sincere statement that
the City of Miami has one of the best police departments in the country. I
think we can do it, and I think we can do it soon. As we said the other day at
the ground -breaking, there are three degrees to a police department. One is
bricks and mortar, and I think this City of Miami is going out of its way -
because the citizens approved it, by spending twenty million dollars in improv-
ing the mechanism and the bricks and mortar. The second aspect of the police
department is the system that we follow, and I think with all the studies and
all the reports --and I think there have been over a dozen in the last five or
six years --that we have had that certainly there should be an improved system.
By April of 1976 we will have a brand new, beautiful police department building.
We are not going to have a new chief. The third ingrediet is people. I think
that the basic ingredient of people in the Miami Police Department is first-
class. I think that we have at the core, the majority of the policemen, at
least that I have met, are exceptionally fine, dedicated public servants, and
I think that if we put the system together and give them the financial backing
and have the bricks and mortar, and if we have the proper type of leadership,
I see no reason why this can't be the best police department in the country.
That's certainly my wish; that's certainly my hope at this time, and I think we
may have approached this problem in different ways. I have nothing but good will.
I extend my good will to everybody in the Police Deaprtment and the people that
DEC 191974
are working. We may differ in tactics; we may differ in the way we gave
approached this problem4 but in this season of advent, where we say, men of
good will, peace on earth to all men of good will, I say to you that all of us
who have good will, and whose interest is a ,etter police iepartment, that we
proceed, forgetting the past and looking to the future together for what we all
want, which is the best possible City of Miami Police Department.
Mr. Plummer: I will make ny statement, hopeful'.y, very brief. 1 thin,_
the question that has been asked of me most is what has been accomplished by
these hearings, and I will tell all of my fellow Commissioners and the depart-
ment that in fact I think these hearings have already shown immediate results.
For example, we did in fact find a weakness in its internal security set-up,
and I think the weakness was shown that they were understaffed; that they did
not have proper facilities to work from, and something has immediately been
done in that area. Another area which was brought outin these hearings was a
man who was arrested and held incommuni,•ado, if you wish, for a number of hours.
I am told now that a new system of booking has been instigated' where if a man
is over thirty minutes in the report processing that the areas of communication
to where his people can locate him are now instigated. Not as a direct result of
these hearings, but I compliment the Manager and his administration. 1 think we
see a new sense of direction in the men on the street; and I pinpoint the downtown
area; that the downtown area has in fact been cleaned up tremendously, and I
think it is reflected by the amount of people that we see downtown shopping and
enjoying the downtown as we saw in the past. Mr. Mayor, the two cases which
you alluded to, I think, have now resolved themselves down, particularly the
Vershard and Taylor cases, as to where it is now one man's story against another;
in the Taylor case, yes. And I believe that, as the memo from the Manager in the
last paragraph, states, the next course of action should be followed immediately.
Mr. Taylor volunteered to take a polygraph test, and I think that we should get to
the bottom of this. Any investigation that does not follow through to its final
conclusion accomplishes nothing. I think both of these cases, which were the
blatant cases which were brought through these hearings, should be followed
through to the final degree. If somebody was lying, let's find out about it.
We are now to the point of one man's story against the other. I think that the
hearings, hopefully, will conclude today. Based on that, Mr. Mayor, I would hope
that we have been able to demonstrate through these hearings areas where we think
weaknesses do occur, and through the Manager, and whoever the new chief is, that
we sit back, not only give them the opportunity to correct :he problems that
exist, but also give them the help of this Commission, through the administra-
tion in areas where we can be helpful to make this a better place to live, and
as you say, give the City of Miami a Department of Police tat it can be very
proud of.
Mayor Ferre: I forgot to mention a fact. Besides a sixteen million dollar
budget, which really is not a sixteen million dollars budget, because if you
add the ten per cent. and the fringes and all of that you are well over twenty
million dollars; twenty-four million dollars. I think it is important that we
continually point these things out. Besides the twenty-four million dollars
department, we have two and a half million dollars of federal grants which we
arereceiving right now; and a whole series of things. The other day you had
before us --what was the title of that? Technical analysis instructor. I just
want to show you how sometimes these things get out of hand. Nobody in this whole
room, the administration or the Commission, knew what a technical analysis in=
structor was, and here we were going to accept some federal funds, which is our
money; we are taxpayers, and here we are using it --the list of things that we are
receiving grants for is just unbelievable. And I am sure that most of them are
very valuable. So as I see it I really don't think that money is our problem.'
If you look on a per capita basis for a community of three hundred and forty
thousand dollars for us to have a budget of twenty-four million dollars, by far
the largest expenditure in the City of Miami, it is well funded. I understand,
Mr. Andrews, and I think it would be appropriate for you to investigate and
DEC 191974
•
give us an answer. The seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars that this
Cohesion appropriated back in Movetnber of 1973 when Chief Garmire came here
saying that's what he needed to get everything, you know, to get a lot of
programs moving and we would see a dramatic difference. It has been a year
almost to the day. I understand that money was never spent, the majority of it.
Then what is this all about. I'd like a complete analysis as to whether or not
after this Commission, at the plea of the Chief, went out and really had to
search for an additional seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars, whether that
money was ever used, and if so how and how much.
Mr. Reboso: As I said previously in the second meeting that we had concern-
ing the Miami Police Department, I am very glad that this is the last meeting
that is taking place. I think the time has arrived in which we have to trust
our City Manager and wait for the selection of a hew Police Chief, and then I
think the whole City Commission should back the decision of the City Manager to
see if we are in the proper path to establish the order and the leadership that
is so badly needed in this community at this time. The only concern I have is
that the last couple of years, I think, our City has been fubject to a lot of
terrorism and none of tese three meetings we have had have addressed to this
point. I think, Mr. Mayor, the editorials of both newspapers, the Miami Herald
and The Miami News, are very clear that we have to do something regarding this
situation, not only from the Latin leaders of this ccmmunity, but from this City
Commission, and we should address our City Manager to see what is possible to do
in order to avoid , that instead of twenty-six bombs that have been exploded this
year, that maybe they will be exploding twenty-six bombs daily. I think, and it
is true, that most of the Latin leaders are afraid to come forward and talk be-
cause of a small group of people, and I say a small group, because we are four
hundred thousand Latins in this community and I don't think one per cent. of this
communtity is involved in these bombings. One per cent. of fonr hundred thousand
people, and I think we are talking here about five or six individuals. Five or
six individuals that can go with violence and terrorism in this city in the name
of patriotism, because I think that some of the bombings have nothing to do with
the name of anti -communist. I can't under any circumstances, understand, for
example, the bombing of the Latin Chamber of Commerce, that has been fighting
communism for the last ten years and has been the backbone of our Latin community.
Some of these bombings, I think, they have d lot of blackmail behind them, and
some of these bombings have to be looked at very deeply, because we can't forget
that Watergate di.'a't begin in Washington, it began in the streets of Miami, and
I think maybe that is the cause of these bombings, and I pledge to you that this
is in my opinion the most important matter that we are facing today in this city.
We are the gateway to the Americas. Tourism is our main concern in this area, and
tourism is going to be away like it has been doing in the Virgin Islands if these
bombings keep taking place. So all of us, members of the Latin communities, and
the City Commission, should take the proper steps to stop this violence or
terrorism that is taking place.
Mayor Ferre: Well, obviously what you say is very important and true. Of
course, you know you and all of the Commission are entitled and have full auth-
ority to bring up any matter that you want to. As I have communicated with you
all along that these agendas that I have been making up are things that as I
see it we' should investigate. Certainly this is not te Mayor's special hearing;
it is the Commission's special hearing. If there is anything specifically that
you want to bring up for testimony or investigation, Commissioner Reboso, I think
that you should do so any time that you want, either now or in the future. I
would say that it is such an important subject, Mr. Andrews, and we really haven't
had a report recently on that. I think that you ought to inform the Commissio
have been made, number one, to apprehend the criminals, and that's what they
are, criminals; they are not patriots, who are involved in bombings, and secondly,
who has been involved in thee investigations and what have been the results, and
what preventive measures, if any, are we taking in conjunction with what other
governmental bodies. I think this could have some future impact. I might point
out that as far as immediate impact, because I wouldn't want the press. and for
this to be a headline in Rio or Bogota or Caracas. I might point out that tourism
has never been higher in Miami from Latin Countries than it is now, and te increase
has almost been so large that it has been sufficient to off -set the lack of
tourism from the United States, other parts of our country. So, thank God this has
not affected that at this time. But I completely agree with Commissioner Reboso
that it could be of tremendous importance if it continues and if it gets a lot of
publicity.
P. W. Andrews, City Manager: I thnk it is appropriate for me to tell
you that this is a concern of both the Police Department, the Chamber of
Commerce and the Latin Chamber of Commerce. There was a meeting wich took
place about three weeks ago which I attended, which was chaired by Mr. Colson,
and at whichmembers of the Chamber of Commerce and the Latin Chamber of
Commerce met, and I met with them to begin pursuing the very area where you
have expressed concerns, Commissioner Reboso, and they,too, want to become more
involved in this whole process; they want to know how they can assist the Police
Department; they want to know what the Police Department is doing; are they
actively pursuing this? We pia to have another meeting very shortly, and I
will be glad to supply the CommsiFsion with such a report, and then attend aw,ther
meeting with them.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, for the benefit of the Commission and of the
public, I have counted well o'ier fifty or sixty items that have come out in
these hearings; some f them major; some of them smaller. I am sure that at some
appropriate time we will be getting some kind of answers to every one of these
questions that have been brought up. For example, you know, the policeman who
said he couldn't get a raincoat for a year and a half.
Mr. Andrews: Every single item, and peripheral areas associated with those
items that the Commission has questioned. Those are all being catalogued, and you
will be receiving responses on each one. The only area I can't assure you
is --we are working on it diligently; we have partial answers already in my office
to many of the questions whichwe are reviewing and planning to send on to the
Commission, but you will receive answers on every single question.
Mr. Plummer: At the last meeting I asked for a full set f the general
orders. We have nt received those. Is there a reason for it?
Mr. Andrews: No, you will receive them.
Mayor. Ferre: All right; then let's proceed with --you all have before you
the proposed agenda for today. The first area that we are going to get into is
communications. Lieutenant Herbert Altman.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor, may I interrupt the proceedings, -so that I dn't have
to interrupt you later. Would you please take into considerat..on in the planning
of your activities today three other matters that the Commission had asked to come
up today, so that you know your. scheduling. One is the matter of the Water and
Sewers; resolution. The next is the pension resolutions. You asked that those be
discussed today. Then I have a third item which affects the bicentennial park.
It's minor in nature, but I must get a decision from the Commission.
Mayor Ferre: As you know, this is a special hearing. We are not in session
officially. We will do that later on this afternoon.
Mrs. Gordon: I have some very pressing things to do, but Ifeel that my
duties to the Commission are prime, so I am going to stay, and I would hope that
we would not waste any time so that we could conclude all our business rapidly.
Mayor Ferre: All right; we are moving --and I might say, also, Mrs. Gordon,
that I also have had a major emergency at this time that requires me, but I am
staying here, because I think this is our responsibility.
Mrs. Gordon: If we can get on with the show and limit discussion or debate
to as little as possible, that would be better.
Mr. Plummer: May I suggest at this time that at whatever point we are at
that we conclude the police hearings at no later than three thirty, to leave an
hour and a half for these other matters that the Manager has, because I have to
leave at five.
D E D 1. 9197,4
Mayor Ferre: Mr, Plummier, I understand, but you recognize that there
might be some things coining up this after loon that you are aware of that might
take a little bit longer, depending upon whether or not it comes up.
Mrs. Gordon: The items to Manager speaks of are not long, items.
Mayor Ferre: One of them might be.
Mr. Andrews: In all fairness I had --and Mr. Lloyd attended with me --I
called a meeting that lasted all afternoon and it could have lasted another
two hours; that water and sewers. It is complicated and difficult, and the
Commission is going to be faced with a very serious problem.
Mayor Ferre: It's complicated, and very important, but we are not going to
call a special meeting at this time. We will do that later on tis afternoon.
Lieutenant Herbert Altman appeared and was duly sworn by the Clerk.
Mr. Ron Silver, Assistant City Attorney: Please state your name and your
official position.
Mr. Altman: Herbert L. Altman, Lieutenant, City of Miami Police Department.
Mr. Silver: As an employee of the City, I must advise you that any information
that you give in answer to the questions by this committee may be the subject of a
disciplinary proceeding by the Civil Service Board if such acts indicate a violation
of the Civil Service Rules.
Lt. Altman: Does this mean that if I tell the truth that I could be disciplined?
Reverend Gibson: Let's hope not. I don't want anybody lying to us here. We
want the truth'
Mayor Ferre: But, you know, I sympathize with what he is saying. What he is
saying is, if I tell it like it is then I may be disciplined, and then what you
are doing is you are forcing me to be disciplined by being honest.
Reverend Gibson: Or you are forcing me to lie.
Mayor Ferre: No Father, he can tell the truth, but unless e ask him the
questions that only he may know what they are, all the testimony might not come
out, because I don't know all the testimony that thie man knows. I know some of
the questions I want to ask him, but I don't know all the questions, and I think
he has brought up a very important thing; that if this man tells it like it is,
ishe going to be reprimanded eventually for it?
Reverend Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I don't know about anybody else, but'I live one
way. If a man tells the truth he tells the truth, and I will die defending the
man who tells the truth. I don't want anything other than that. Sir, let me tell
you for me; don't take up my time if you are not going to be telling the truth.
Mayor Ferre: No, Father, he didn't say that
Reverend Gibson: Listen, I'll tell you this. What he is saying is what I
am saying.
Mayor Ferre: What you are saying is, as I understand it,is that if you
don't tell all of the truth you are not really telling the truth, and what Iam
saying is --what he said, as I understood it, is if I tell it like I know it and
like it is, am I going to eventually end up having to pay for being forthright and
honest.
Mr. Plummer: No, Mr. Mayor, you are missing a very important part. There
are two segments to that. One, he could be subject to a violation of
Civil Service Rules. Two, he could be subject to retribution by the Department.
Two important different phases there. I am going to bring up this aftern000n some
retribution that is supposedly already occurred for people testifying here.
j
DEC 191974
Reverend Gibson: Are you telling me that here we are, we have authority
to call a hearing to get the facts and tell the truth, and because this man is
going to tell the truth somebody is going,to penalize him? Now dog gone it as
long as I am sitting here, sir, let me ge: you right. You can afford to tell the
truth, because the truth will make you fr'e, and if I find out, I promise you
that anything I could do to take care of ;hat matter I certainly will, charter or
no charter. No charter ought to make me not ask of you the truth and demand it.
And if I catch you lying I`am going to be the same way toward you, too.
Mayor Ferre: Father, I completely agree with you, and i is a beautiful.
statement, but what he is worried about is not the truth, but he is worrying about
his job every day when he goes to work and the way people treat him, and he is
worrying about the bread that he puts on the table for his family.
Reverend Gibson: What I am telling all of you is this: He would not be the
first one that this has happened to and nobody has done a dog gone thing about it.
Let me tell you the attitude 1 am assuming up here. If they do that Iam prepared
to take the necessary steps at the taxpayers expense to protect the taxpayers,
because the only way we are going to straighten up the whole system is we have
got to know what is happening; and I want him to tell it asit is, and when you go
back and they give you the cold shoulder --you see I am black; I know what has
happened to me all along in this kind of situation.
Mayor Ferre: But you don't want that to happen to him.
Reverend Gibson: I sit on this Commission --I don't work on who is with me;
I work on whether or not Theodore Gibson has told the truth and his conscience
is clear; and I think, sir, the only way you are going to help the citizens of
this community is you are going to have to take that risk. Let me tell you this:
I happen to have done some thtngs earlier in my life, and everybody was made with
me and castigated me. You know what happened? I received a call from the pre-
siding Bishop of the Episcopal Church. That's the highest man in the church. And
you know what he said. He wanted two men to do something, and he said, if I must
recommend anybody there are two men I will consider; one, preferably, Theodore
Gibson. I said, I can trust Theodore Gibson, because he will tell the truth, and
he will be honest. That's wha I want. I don't care what happens otherwise; I
want honesty and truthfulness.
Mr. Plummer: Just so Lt. Altman will know, in discussing with the City
Attorney, Lieutenc..t, what he really is telling you is this: If you testify here
before this Commission of any wrong -doing that Herbie Altman has done, you are
then subject to civil service proceedings. In other words, if you have, yourself,
committed a violation and you testify to it, you then are subject to a proceeding.
Now, as far as retribution is concerned by, let's call, superior officers, I
am going to go one step further. I am going to tell you and tell every person
that is a city employee who has testified here, that if retribution is brought to
my attention, that because you testified befoe these hearings and told it like it
was, and told the truth, and retribution is then brought upon you, I want you to
know that nobody in this administration is going to get one day's rest until some-
body's head rolls. Now I want that damned clear, because I am telling you, as
the Mayor said, we are here to find out the fact, and if a man is willing to stand
up with the guts and the fortitude to bring those facts before the Commission, and
because he did such he is now subject to harrassment of any kind, I am not going
to rest until that situation is cleared up, and that is more important to me than
anything else.
Mayor Ferre: Let me tell you how I see this thing --and in the past four
months I have gone into this department and learned a lot more than I knew before --
I don't think it is any secret that the City of Miami Police Department, for
whatever reasons you want to attribute to it, has been a divided department, and
divided in more than one way. It isn't just something on a racial basis, or
brass against the echelon, or vice versa, or some groups against others, the
Chief Garaire Groups against theChief Headley groups. We have had a divided
department. We all know that. There is a lot of fear in that department. I can
tell you that I have talked to, I would say, pretty close to a hundred individuals
that are in the department, the vast majority of which have said, well, this and
this happened. Some of them are heresay stories that are not public information
sad I think would be very difficult to document. Others were willing to talk, but
they don't want to do it publicly because they are scared of the consequences.
Right here in your own department --let me tell you, I don't know about Fran' Clark
or Beryl Casey, but I would take a guess that they are not here because they are
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DEC 1.91974
just scared to death. Those two girls, when I talked to them they were petrified,
and they said, please, Mayor, don't call us up. We like the City of Miami. We
want to keep on working here. You have no idea what pressures it will have if we
testify. And I understand. They are human; so they are sick today.
Reverend Gibson: You know, I am going to end up being a prophet one of these
days. I urgedthia Commission to bring an outside agency in here to make this in-
vestigation. You remember that? The reason for that is I happen to know teat it
is difficult for people to look at themselves, and it is difficult for people to
tell on the fellow next door to them, but if you brought an outside agency in here
as I said and give them full authority and say to the Police Department or any other
department, you people cooperate, you sha,e up or you ship out. We have certan
built-in protections around here that peo.,le could continue to do what they do and
there isn't anything you can do with them. Now, if it is rong, it is wrong, and I
say again that if you had a team that went in, the team would bring you the informa-
tion. But you know, we think that men are going to stand up ere --there aren't too
many men and women who are willing to pay the price, especial y when it gets to
bread to eat. And I understand that. I wanted to spare the feople of that, but
that was not the route we wanted to go. And Mr. Mayor, let me say this: Nobody
could convince me to the contrary that these hearings have not been good, because
a lot of things I never knew until --
Mayor Ferre: You think they have been bad?
Reverend Gibson: No one could convince me that these parings have not done
good. And let me make another observation. You know an awful lot of people are
now aware that were not aware, and with all of that I am not saying there is any-
ting wrong with the hearing. What I am saying that disturbs me is that when we
ask this men to put his bread and meat cn the table that nobody, based on what I
hear, nobody is going to rescue this mar,. Well, sir, let me tell you something.
You have a partner right now. I believe--J.L. Plummer said the same thing. I believe
that the City of Miami is more important than any one man, any two men, any depart-
ment. I want that in bold print by the newspapers. The City of Miami is more
important than any protection of certain cliques and we want it all to hang out.
Mayor Ferre: I agree completely, Father, with everything you have said.
However, I also recognize what Lt. Altman said, and Lieutenant, all I can say
is this: I sympathize with your problem, and at this point it is between you and
God; between you and pour conscience. You will have to do what you think is best,
and I hope that you will be like Father Gibson was when the going was tough way
back then --and i wasn't that long ago, Father, when you had to stand up and per-
haps you thought you were a little bit alone, and you were alone, but you weren't
alone for long, and of course what you stood up for is part of everyday life now
and is accepted. At that time it wasn't. I hope, Lieutenant --and I want to back
up what Mr. Plummer has said.`. He said he would not rest if retributions are ap-
parent. Now, I can't and he can't, and nobody here can guarantee that somebody
isn't going to put pressure on you in the department. I hope that would not
happen. You know just as well as I do that nobody can guarantee it. Now, if it
is an open, obvious thing; OK, but if it isn't there is no guarantee. The only
thing that we can guarantee, as I understand it, under the law, is that you are
protected under the law, and the only thing that the civil service portion means
is that if you testify against yourself on some things that you have done, then
that can be used, but if you are just talking abuut the department, that would not
be grounds. And the rest of it, I think, is between you and your conscience and
what you think has to be done. I, hope that you feel it important enough, and
that your love for the City and for the department willl guide you to consider the
best interests of the department, recognizing that you might be jeopardizing your
personal position in relation to your fellow officers. I hope that would not be the
case. I think it will not be the case eventually. I don't know whether that would
be the case in the immediate. I don't know. But let me tell you this: Along with
Mr. Plummer, if I hear about anybody being, if there is any reprisal of some sort,
I am certainly not going to stand still, and I know I speak for the Manager and
everybody else. Nobody here would stand still for that.
Reverend Gibson: I want to help you. I am not going to let anybody speak for
me. You have my support a pronto before you even start. I want to serve notice
on everybody, the Chief, the Acting Chief, all theMajors, all the Captains, all
the Lieutenants; all to Sergeants, all the Policemen. You have my support. You
DEC 191974
•
know it now. I want the to make up their mind. You said this to me not long
Ago, Mr. Mayor, that the only way a country is destroyed is for good men to
sit down and be idle and do noting. I am not in that do nothing and idle crew.
Mayor Ferrer All right, then. I think the best thing is, we have problems
in the communications department of the City of Miami Police Department. I think,
rather than our going through a series of questions, which we may get into a
little later on, why don't you just go ahead and tell us what th problems are and
how you see them. Perhaps you might also talk about the answers, as to hot, we
can correct them, because pointing out the problem is only half of it; the •ther
part is what do we do about them.
Lt. Altman: I am not communicatio oriented. I am not a technician. The first
time I ever picked up a radio was when I first came with the Police Department. I
was assigned to the job as communications commander of the Police Deaprtment back
in March of 1973. The previous commander was moved out for some reason and I
was assigned to the job. At that time I was called in by the Chief of Police and
advised that I was going to take over the job, and not to ask for two things; don't
ask for more people and don't ask for more money, because this would solve all our
problems. The problem has been in the area of people --and this has been all the
way back to 1971, that there has been not enough people to operate the communica-
tions of the Police Department. This is a twenty-four hour a day unit, seven days
a week. There are no holidays. And without the core of people that we have there
now who will g unrecognized for their service, the City could not operate. It is
the lifeline of the citizen and it is the'lifeline of the police officer in the
field, that when he picks that radio up he has communication with the department
when he needs help, and also when a citizen needs help. Now lie situation has
progressively gotten worse. We have had communication dispatiiers wbo have left
for other jobs. We have had communication clerks who have left. There have been
times when girls have had to work fifteen hours straight, so that we could cover
properly the radio channels. The same goes with our clerks. It has only been in
the ast several weeks that more people have come into the unit to be interviewed
for jobs, in the last fifteen months. Memos have been written, as I say, since
1970, all the way through the department up to the city manager, there have been
budget requests made for additional people, and it seems that they are never answered.
Somewhere along the lines these items have been left out. We request more people
because it is unfair to the girl to have to be responsible for anywhere up to
sixty police units out in the field, and it is not fair to the police officers who
have to get on the radio and request information not to be able to do so for minutes
at a time because he is unable to get or the air. There are problems in the
communication unit as far as the facilities are concerned. It takes months and
months to get something done in there. Half of the waking hours of these people are
spent doing a job for the City of Miami. I come down here a few weeks ago and I
notice the fine facilities that were made for the news media and I can't get a
hold in the wall fixed, and I am wondering where are the priorities of the City
compared to the Police Department when we see these things. It is like pulling
teeth to get the place painted. If this is what it takes to make the unit work
better, people and money, then Ithink this is the problem and the solution to it.
In the last several weeks we have got more people in. Hopefully we will be able
to staff each of the shifts properly so that nobody has to work overtime; nobody
has to give up their days off to come in and work, as they do now, and when people
do call the police department for service that they can be answered efficiently
and properly. Other than any questions you may have ---
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask a few questions. You are a professional policeman
and I am sure you are proud and happy in the job of being a policeman. If you
were police chief and Herb Altman was a lieutenant in the department, would you
have chosen Herb Altman to do this job of communications, in the sense that --
what I am trying to get at is, are you happy in your job, or do you feel that this
is an area where you should be functioning? Or do you feel that as a professional
policeman, that's what you really are, and you are really not a communications ex-
pert?
Lt. Altman: Personally I am not happy in the job and I think the department
to aware of that. I am assigned there and I wil go where I am assigned. I think
another problem in this situation is that in 1971 when the communications unit was
separated from the department communications within the City of Miami it presented
a problem to us because, as I say, none of us were technically oriented. Any time
DEC 19;974
•
repairs had to be made, new radios ordered, or anything else, we had to go
back to the communications department for advise and help, and I think that
this ought to be administered by a telecommunications man; someone who is ex-
perienced in the field of communications should be put into that type of job.
Mayor Ferre: What I am trying to say is if you asked me to go fly a plane
this afternoon, and my boss orders me to go fly a plane, I'll try in the next
four or five hours to figure out how to fly it and I'llfly it, but I certainly
won't feel very good about it. It is a tough question. What I am trying to find
out is do you personally feel qualified, with your technical knowledge, not your
professional --I am not asking you whether you are qualified as a policeman; we are
not talking about that, but I am talking about in the communications field, do you
personally feel when you were assigned to that job that you were qualified to do
the job?
Lt. Altman: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Do you feel qualified now?
Lt. Altman: I know the difference between some of the technical terms and
some of the problems, but as far as trying to solve them, here again it takes
somebody who is more experienced.
Mayor Ferre: Do you feel you are an expert at this point?
Lt. Altman: No,sir.
Mrs. Gordon: At the time you were selected for the position, do you think
there was a more qualified person that could have been available within the de-
partment to take the position?
Lt. Altman: I don't know. I don't lnow the background or resumes of any of
the other officers, or what type of experience they have had and I couldn't answer
that.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok, but the reason for my question is very clear. When you
are in charge of something --I am not saying anybody --you take the most adaptable
person. If you don't have someone better you take the most adaptable person and
place him in the position. Perhaps you are especially adaptable, or were at that
time; more so, perhaps, than anyone else around. So, I mean, maybe you weren't
trained, but maybe you were adaptable for training. I am just making a point.
The point is that we don't know all the circumstances. We are hearing bits and
pieces of circumstances, and this just doesn't tell the story.
Mayor Ferre: Let me answer you this way. That's like saying that the person
I am going to choose to fly an airplane this afternoon is the one wh has the
nicest personality and will be able to get along the best with the passengers and
the other members of the crew. We are not talking about adaptability of personality.
We are talking about technical ability and proficiency in a specific science.
Mrs. Gordon: The best person that was available at the time he was selected.
Mayor Ferre: Are you going to choose the best surgeon to operate on a gall
bladder based on whether or not the man has a nice personality and can get along
with the nurses. That's not the point.
Mrs. Gordon: I am not going to argue with you. That's not the point, and you
know it, and I am not going to argue with you.
Mayor Ferre: Let me phrase the question in another way. Do you think that
the City of Miami, or in Florida there was somebody who was technically more
qualified to do that job when you were appointed?
Lt. Altman: Of course there was.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, Mayor, we have limited the selection of a chief to our
department. Does that say any more?
u DEC 101974
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you this, if you want to get down to the nitty gritty,
was there somebody within the City of Miami employees that you thought was more
adept at handling tht job, in your opinion, in the technical end of it.
Lt. Altman: I think the gentleman sitting right next to me.
Mayor Ferre: That's what I am trying to bring out; that we have not only
proficiency, but as I have pointed out in the areas of the Fire Department, that
we have within the City of Miami perhaps one of the best recognized communications
experts in all of the United States, and to happens to be an employee of the City
of Miami; a ma who has been in this for o'er thirty years; who has had more innovation
and who has been recognized throughout this country for proficiency in communications.
I am just trying to point out that there were alternatives. And I'll put it right
out. The reason why those alternatives weren't recognized we:e again for internal
reasons. We didn't go for excellence; we went for what was mist convenient at the
time, because of certain qualifications and ramifications within the department to
try to keep it within the department, and it was a decision that was made, and I
understand why it was made. I don't agree with it. I don't think you ever com-
promise with excellence if it is available.
Reverend Gibson: Who is in charge of communications?
Lt. Altman: Of the City ofMiami? Mr. Ben Demby.
Reverend Gibson: Was he consulted?
Lt. Altman: About my being assigned to this job? No, sir, he would not
have been, because at this time the communications unit had been separated from
the communications department . Since he is a director of another department, he
would not have been consulted.
Reverend Gibson: I don't understand how you all run --I want to --here is a
man who is in charge of communications, Mr. Demby, you said? Mr. Demby is not
asked for the best person to do the job. The point is Mr. Demby is the most
capable man you have. You are looking for a man --we are looking for a man
to do the job you were doing, and when I said we, that means whoever made the
decision ----I don't want John Doe. I am going to take Harry James. So we ex-
cluded the expert; is that what happened? Let me make this further observation.
I was on the team where you give the invocation at the Orange Bowl, and every
time I gave the invocation at the Orange Bowl I just trembled, because there
was a re-echoing every time; you know what I mean; or if you are speaking or
praying, your voice comes back at a later date and you hear yourself at a
later time after the fact. You hear it as if it were being played back; a delayed
action. I have to admit that when the invocation is given now I haven't detected
the same difficulty. You said Mr. Demby is the man. I think I heard him make an
observation some months ago in this regard. I mention that because it is incon-
ceivable in a day like this that we would substitute, Mr. Andrews--nd I hope you
start looking about the business now --that we could substitute other than what
is excellency and efficiency. There is no substitute for tis. Just one other
comment What probably happened to the people in the span of time, sir, that you
were learning? Have you ever thought about that? What probably happened to those
people --and I understand what you are saying, and I sympathize with you, but I'll
tell you, that is one hell of a way to run a bg corporation.
Mayor Ferre: In other words, it is as if you had Dr. Debakey and Dr. Cooley
and they were operating over at St. Francis Hospital, and over at Mt. Sinai
Hospital I am going to be operated on for open heart surgery and we are going to
say, we are not going to go to Dr. Debakey and Dr. Cooley at St. Francis because
he is in another hospital. You wouldn't do that with your life. So, what I am
aaying,Mr. Andrews, is if we do have someone with the knowledge and expertise of
a Ben Demby in communications it really seems completely --and I know that this
1.1 DEC' 1 91974
was not your decision; you were not Manager at the time, and I know that the
Acting Chief was not the chief then, but here we have completely circumvented
the information that we could have gotten from a recognized expert in an area
that we are dealing with.
Mr. Andrews: Is the Commission pursuing this matter on the basis of find-
in$ out Lt. Altman's technical ability as far as the equipment over which he
supervises, or is his principal responsibility that of Police Communications
Supervisor supervising communications operators or dispatchers. Using the
illustration of flying the airplane, you wouldn't be called on in those four
hours to understand completely the mechanical workings of the airplane. Ma be
you could learn to fly an airplane in four hours, but you wouldn't understand it.
you might be able to supervise it and not --using complicated equipment, and not
necessarily know all the technical aspects of than equipment.
Mayor Ferre: Paul, you were a pilot during the war. How could you ask me,
since I don't know how to fly, to get behind you and tell you how to fly that
1-26 bomber that you were flying and tell you, and I am the boss, how to fly it?
And right in that very same vein, what happened to the people in the period
of time that he was learning in view of the fact that there was a more competent
man or a more capable man?
Mr. Andrews: Of course, I can't address myself to that area. All I am
asking is that the Commission determine what Lt. Altman's function really is
in the department --and 'I am not in disagreement with some of he things that
Lt. Altman is bringing to your attention. I have had some co versations with
him.
Mayor Ferre: We are going to get into that in a moment. I just want to
remind the manager that when it came time to selecting him as the manager we
didn't go around and look for somebody who had six hours of experience; we
didn't go out and pick the most likeable person in the City of Miami and say
we are going to get the man who can get along with everybody, and in six hours
don't worry about the technique of running the city, because you will learn that
as you go along. We chose a man who we thought had the experience and the exper-
tise to do the job. I don't care what your personality is like. That's your
problem. We went to a known expert, with experience, to do the job, and what's
good for the goose is good for the gander, and the gander in this case happens
to be communications. Now, Lt. Altman,.isn't it a fact that we have had an
abnormal amount of turnover in that department? You describe it. Have we had
turnover at all?
Lt. Altman: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Would you say that the turnover has been normal?
Lt. Altman: We had one dispatcher leave because she had a baby --when you
say turnover, I have had people leave; I have had several who have been hired
and left because they could not do the job.
Mayor Ferre: I am talking about in the last two years. How many people have
been in and out of that department, other than having babies. That's normal, I
think, even though some people question it.
Lt. Altman: I'd say about twelve to fifteen.
Mayor Ferre: Let me put it this way --and I hate to be quoting people who
are not here --but those two girls told me that the turnover in that department
has been subatantialy higher than in the Communications and the Fire Departments,
where there is hardly any turnover.
Lt. Altman: I imagine it would be --and I have talked to the same two girls,
and I think that both operations are completely opposite in so far as the
amount of work, the critical nature of the work; the shortage of training
that they have had in tha% particular time ---
DEC 191974
1
Mayor Ferret All right, let's get into that. Now, do you in your opinion
feel that the proper amount of training is given to these girls --as I understand
it the turnover has been so excessive that when these girls come there there is
sometimes not enough time to train them, and that what happens, in effect, is
that because of the need --and I am not blaming anybody; you just need somebody on
that radio. When somebody in that department says, get on that radio and handle
it and do it and get going with it; and I. understand some of these girls break
down after two hours and they start crying and some have left in the middle of the
shift because they couldn't take the pressure, because they were not propel y
trained. Now is that so or not?
Lt Altman: It has happened. We have three trainers. Because of the short-
age of people there is not enough time to take a girl and give her six to eight
weeks training and supervision before she can be put out on her own, and this
could be one of the reasons. I imagine it is one of the reasons.
Mayor Ferre: In your opinion, is it one of the reasons?
Lt. Altman: Yes; because we do not have enough qualified people available
to run twenty-four hours a day seven days a week, and once a girl is there, plus
the fact that girls do get sick; they have vacations coming to them, and if a
girls is given anywhere from two to three weeks training and then put on a channel
by herself then we feel we are doing really good.
Mr. Reboso: I would like to know why this department was created and whose
idea was it to divide this department from the communications department, and how
it happened.
Lt. Altman: I do not know, Mr. Rebos.. This occurred back in February of
1971, at which time the communications department was separated.
Mr. Andrews: The Division of --the responsibility for po].ce communications
is with the Police Department. The responsibility for receivialg complaints and
dispatching police cars is a policing function. It was operated for many years
as a function under the Communications Department, a separate department. In 1971
the City Manager then and the Chief of Police came to the conclusion that it would
be wiser to have this responsibility to have this responsibility placed within the
department; not ju';t the technical aspects of the kinds of equipmet they were
dealing with, because obviously the Police Department wouldn't have the expertise
and that the maintenance of that equipment would still be the responsibility of the
Police Department, but the communications dispatchers and the complaint clerks
would be a prt of the responsibility of the department, and so that change was
made.
Mr. Reboso: Was it approved by the City Commission at that time?
Mr. Andrews: No, I don't believe so. I don't think it normally would
have, but I am not sure.
Mayor Ferre: Suppose it was. If it is not functioning don't you think
it is the responsibility of the chief, or the boss, or whoever is out there to
say, look, this isn't working; we need some help, and then we address ourselves
to it. I am not trying to question as to who made the mistake in 1970, 71 or
what have you. I am questioning as to what happened, and Plummer, I know has a
whole series of questions that Iwant him to get into in reference to the type of
thing that is going on.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor, you associate the mistakes with the change of
responsibility. Are you questioning that area to begin with?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, I am; and there is no question about it. Before we get
on, Mr. Plummer, before you get into your questions there is one last thing,
one question and one comment I want to make. The question is --we talked about
turnover, about inadequate training, about overburnden of work, but we haven't
mentioned equipment. I understand that some equipment is in such bad condition
that there is a portion of this town --and I understand it is in the central area,
the so-called "ghetto" area --where some equipment doesn't function, and I under-
stand that there have been cases , many working in that area where they have to
relay information with their walkie-talkies, and ten into the station. Is that
correct?
l�s DEC 191974
Lt. Altman: The downtown area, or what we call Channel 2, there is a
problem with interference because of the high amount of other frequencies.
radio stations; tele+,hone comoanv and everyone else. It is a technical troblem
that can be overcome. I understand. by either the modernization. or the addition
of new equipment.
Manor Ferre: Has it been done?
L: Altman: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Is it being done now? To yo':r best knowledge.
Lt. Altman: Again, I would have to defer to Mr. Demby and some of the
problems and the solutions to it. And also with our consultant, SRI, that they
have come up with several of what they consider solutions to this type of problem.
Mayor Ferre: Is it a fact that we have deficient equipment, based on your
statement at this point?
Lt. Altman: We do have problems in some areas of the City of poor reception
because of other interference.
Mayor Ferre: Here is the point I want to make on that, Mr. Andrews. It
seems inconceivable to me that we could be spending five million dollars for a
computer, as great as that is going to be to give us instant information and
data. That's wonderful. But that's•like saying we are going to run before we
walk. To me there can't be anything more basic than the instant communication
between a police officer and somebody that has a control unit. Now, if we have
not corrected that basic problem, then why are we going to all these high faluten
sophistications, when we really ought to be concentrating on the correcting of
a simple little problem. A policeman should have the protection of functioning
radio equipment that he can communicate instantly to save his life and the life
of others if he has to, with a central base. That's what I am trying to point
out.
Mr. Andrews: The impression that might be created here is that the City
is nat conscious or aware of this. We are constantly aware of this kind of
communication problem.
Mayor Ferre: How long have we been aware of it, Mr. Andrews?
Mr. Andrews: Fifteen years.
Mayor Ferre: Then why haven't we done something about it?
Mr. Andrews: We are doing something about it all the time, Mr. Mayor, and
if you will let me explain I'll tell you what, as I understanc.it, from a layman's
point of view --and Mr. Demby can bring this out more clearly --that the antennas
that we have for distribution of the communications have to have a line of
sight. If we put antennas up on buildings in downtown Miami and elsewhere in
the city and, we have a physical change in the City where new buildings are con--
atructed you have interference. You have to put more antennas up or change your
location, and as long as you have changing conditions in the City you will always
have this problem, and we are constantly addressing ourselves to it.
Mayor Ferre: That takes a couple of months to correct. I understand that
there are portions of the downtown area where you have absolutely no communications
except for a walkie-talkie. Can you imagine the conditions of a policeman finding
himself face to face with a criminal element where he has to get immediate help
and he is not able to do so because he can't communicate?
14 DEC 101974
Mr. Andrews: I don't know at this point in time that there isn't every
place in the downtown area that you cannot communicate.
Mayor Ferre: I hear that there are blind spots in the downtown area around
the central Negro district where you cannot communicate through Channel 2. Now
Lieutenant, you clarify that. Is that so or not?
Lt. Altman: Again, Mayor, there are problems --it is a problem area and we
do have a lot of interference. Every police officer who is out in the field is
equipped with these portable radios and they actually give us better covera^e
than the mobile radios which are in the cars.
Mayor Ferre: Does that make any sense to you? That we have to depend on
portable radios?
Lt. Altman: I think this has been the whole vision of the new Miami Police
Department; get the man out of there and on the street where he has instant com-
munication with them at all times.
Mayor Ferre: That's not my point. My point is the safety of the policemen.
Is a policeman safe when he is walking around and having to depend on a walkiel
talkie, or should he have the most potent, best radio available, so that when he
needs help he can get it instantly, rather than having to worry about whether or
not his radio is going to work or his message is going to get over to the Central
Communications Center.
Mr. Altman: Mr.Mayor, again I would defer to Mr. Demby. I believe we have
one of the best radios put out, as far as a portable is concerned.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Demby has nothing to do with your department.
Lt. Altman: Well, as I said before, we have to go back to him for technical
problems.
Mr. Andrews: One question, Mr. Mayor, through you to Lt. Altman. Are you
saying --who maintans the equipment now? Who advises you technically as to the
competence of the equipment?
Lt. Altman: Again, Mr. Demby.
Mr. Andrews: Then are you saying that that information and that equipment
that is being furnished to the city is inadequate?
Lt. Altman: No, sir. As I said, I think we have one of the best portable
radios on the market. There are problems there that need to be corrected.
Mr. Andrews: Would you say that the Ctty of Miami is as well equipped as
any jurisdiction in South Florida, or better equipped?
Lt. Altman: I'd say better equipped.
Mayor Ferre: Paul, that's wonderful and that's great. We have the best
equipment. Now, I am not worrying, see --you are worrying about whether or not
we are doing a better job than Metro or some other state --my only concern is, is
that policeman getting the best possible protection that we can give him, and
if the problem is communications through a central radio and there is inter-
ference because of new buildings that have been built, I guarantee you that it
doesn't cost a heck of a lot of money to put one, two or three antennas around
this town.
Mr. Andrews: That's all. And I agree, Mr. Mayor. What I am trying to stress
is that the City of Miami is extremely conscious of this.
l a DEC 19 1374
Mayor Ferre: yes, for fifteen years.
Mr. Andrews: Fifteen ',pars as an example of our concern with this; and
we are constantly concerned a ith the police officer's safety, and we are doing
something about it within our capability.
Mayor Ferre: Paul, let me put it to you this way. Are you satisfied with
the ---
Mr. Andrews: No, sir; I am never satisfied with any of these things.
Mayor Ferre: Do you think it can be improved?
Mr. Andrews: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: Will it be improved?
Mr. Andrews: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: Let me make one statement in closing the questions that I have
here., and this is my point, and I will make it to you. The Fire Department --I
know we are talking apples and oranges, Lieutenant, that fire departments are dif-
ferent from police departments. The Fire Department is under Mr. Demby's juris-
diction. That department, as I understand it, doesn't have any communications
problems. The people work happily; the turnover is low; the equipment
functions well. Now, let me tell you --and I know nobody wants to make the
statement --I am going to tell you what it is. Tte Police Department and the former
Chief thought it was essential that the Police Department control communications,
and that is what this is all about, and because of that we did something that is
illogical, and what I am saying is that, my friend, you cannot ever go against
common sense, because common sense, in the long run, prevails. If we have ex-
pertise within the City's department it is more important that expertise prevail
than for somebody to have something in his kingdom or in his groupdom. The
Chief of police should have all the safeguards of controlling certain aspects of
communication, but I think it is absurd, with all due respect to what I am sure
is an excellent police officer, to put in the hands of a man that knows nothing
about communications a complicated important segment of the Police Department.
There is probably no department that is more vital to the safety of the policemen
and to the citizei: than that communications center, and to put it in the hands of
people who do not have the expertise, and admit it, and to have a department
that is not functioning properly, and to admit it, and put women and men on those
radios that aren't properly trained and overburden them with work, in my opinion,
is doing a disservice to the policeman on the street, to the City of Miami, and
to the citizens. I think this is a problem,. That's what we are supposed to be
doing here is pointing out problems.
Mr. Plummer: Lt. Altman, in 1971 when I sat on this Commission, either the
second or the third meeting that I sat on, I had to rely very strongly in a lot
of cases on the recommendations of the manager. In 1971 when the manager recom-
mended that the police communications be separated from the Communications De-
partment he stressed only one point, and that was that the communications of the
police should be confidential. Now, it is no secret to anyone in the administra-
tion or the police Department that I have been a listener of the police frequencies
and I have yet in this three-year period to hear anything over those radios of a
confidential nature that could persuade me. The question I am asking of you, do
you feel that there is the tremendous need for separation, and"does the confidential
information exist or doesn't it?
Lt. Altman: In some cases there is confidential information that even our
own officers are not made aware of by using radios with special channels that they
may use for narcotic arrests, or intelligence missions. We have even gone far
enough to get several radios that had what we called scramblers on them, so that
even outside interests, such as police buffs and others who may have ulterior motives
in listening to police calls are not able to pick up these type of calls The
most general information can be heard by any citizen who buys a radio in one of the
DEC 191974
stores that scans the different police frequencies and listens to everything
that is going on, whether it be Metro, or otherwise.
Mr. Plummer: But do you feel that on the normal working channels that
confidentially in fact exists?
Lt. Altman: No; this information is available to anybody who wants to go
out and spend enough money to get a radio that is receptime to these calls.
W. Plummer: Prior to the time you were made in charge of communications is
my memory correct that Lt. Paul Obos was in charge of communications?
Lt. Altman: Prior to my'being assigned, I believe, it was Captain Elmore who
was assigned to communications, and possibly before him Lt. Obos, and before him
somebody else.
Mr. Plummer: Lt. Obos did an intensive investigation into the problems as
they existed in the communications of the police. To your knowledge was that
study ever implemented? Was it ever given any serious thought? What was done
with that study that was conducted?
Lt. Altman: I do not know exactly what Lt. Obos had made or done in his
study. It was one of several that were made by people in the department, in the
unit outlining the fact that we were short of people; and that an increase should
be made at that time. Nothing has been done. They have just accumulated over the
period of years.
Mr. Plummer: One of the main complaints that we, as Commissioners, here is
the fact that a call is placed to the Police Department and no one answers the
'phone. I am sure you have heard the complaint many times. Why?
Lt. Altman: It could be several reasons. Number one, you have six telephone
positions in that complaint room, and I would invite everybody here to come down
some afternoon and see just what a busy place it can be. There are six telephone
positions where the clerks sit and take calls from the citizens. Luckily sometimes
we will have six people sitting there. If we only have four or five, or even some-
times on the midnight shift where only two show up, then just a few calls will
overload our lines and everybody out has to wait. The clerks are all instructed
that when they arr talking to somebody and it is not an emergency call to put that
person on hold and then answer the incoming call and ask them if it is an emergency
call. If not, they are put on hold. There are other times during the rainy
weather where you have a multitude of accidents. These lines can be overloaded to
the point where somebody has to wait for an open line. Some of the calls we get
are non -essential, and yet the person has to take time to talk to a citizen. The
person may be lonely and wants to talk to somebody. We may have a crime in progress
where a person has to be kept on the line to get information as to the suspect's
description, and direction. So there can be many reasons why the phone, other
than technical, is not answered immediately when it rings.
Mr. Plummer: Have you recommended that these incoming lines be increased?
Lt. Altman: No, sir. I haven't. There have been several surveys made by the
telephone company and by our consultants, SRI as to the new type of system we would
use in the new building to separate the incoming calls as to strictly a call for
information and a call for actual police service, which would feee up the lines
much quicker than what they do now. I believe there has been an increase in the
lines over what they had before, but sometimes that is not enough, and I believe we
have approximately ten lines coming in now.
Mr. Plummer: You have been exposed to the equipment that is proffered by SRI.
I think you have worked with SRI in the areas of communications.
Lt. Altman: I have attended several of the meetings, and the working group.
1i DEC 191974
Mr. Plummer: Do you feel that what is being proffered by SRI is good for
the City; it won't work, it si tremendous; your opinion, please, on the so-called
new equipment that is being ordered?
Lt. Altman: If everything works like they portray it it is going to be a
tremendous asset for the police officer and the citizen. I don't think we are
actually at the point yet where we really know what type of equipment we are
going to have in the automobile; whether the officer is going to be advised of a
crime by a voice, or by some type of a tele----. We are working in the ar-a of
computerized dispatch where the cars could be assigned on a priority basis :one by
the computer instead of by a civilian or officer being there, would hopefully de-
crease the amount of time taken to answer a call. Here again some of the technical
aspects that they have come up with I am not in a position to answer.
Mr. Plummer: One of the most important channels you have is channel 4 where
record checks are done by the men in the field. Give this Commission an opinion in
the last sixty days of how much you have worked without channel four.
Lt. Altman: Commissioner, I don't know in the last sixty days. As I say we
have had more people come in as far as help , than we have had in the past several
months. There have been times when for hours on end we have had to close Channel
4 for a complete shift because we have not had enough officers to work it, and that
the officer would have to call either Metro records, or our own records, to get
information on a person or a license tag that he may be making an inquiry about.
This channel is also used by officers talking from car to car which brings a lot
of traffic on the air; administrative information.
Mr. Plummer: Do you feel that the department or a man individually can
function properly if channel 4 is not operating?
Lt. Altman: No, sir; because he may stop a person on the street, whether
it be in Florida or anywhere in the country, for some suspicious reason, and in
a matter of seconds be advised that this is a wanted subject on the other side of
the United States. With the type of information that they can get through the
computer terminals that they have there this channel should be kept open at all
times. In fact, there should be at least two operators there, because it is a
very busy channel. Information has to be entered into the machines; they have to
talk on the radio answering the other officers in the field, and here again we
have been short handed historically.
Mr. Plummer: Have you asked for additional personnel?
Lt. Altman: Yes sir; additional personnel have been asked for since 1970
by memo. When the department first took over communications a minimum of 21
operators were given to us, which was not enough then, and memos have been written
throughout the years requesting more, and surveys made. I think at one time we
had a total of 23, and then through resignations this was dropped down to 19 or
20. At the present time we have approximately 23 operators. Two are trainees.
We have hired others who have not reported for duty yet. So at this point we are
at the beat we have ever been, but here again it takes several weeks to train
somebody before they can be considered an operator who can handle a channel by
herself.
Mr. Plummer: Do I understand your answer to be that you have requested it
but it has not been forthcoming?
unit.
Lt. Altman: Not only for myself, but other commanders of the communication
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Andrews, why?
1 DEC 191974
Mr. Andrews: It is my understanding that the personnel that are required
now have been allocated to the complaint and communications area. Unless I have
a misunderstanding t believe now that the positions have been assigned.
Lt. Altman: The budget has been increased from the 21 to 27, but these
people are not on board yet. It takes time to recruit them, to give tests, to
make up an eligibility list; to get these people on; interview them, if we do ac-
cept them; put them through the other employment practices, the polygraph,
physical, before we actually get them, and this can take several weeks.
Mr. Plummer: It is only in this recent budget that that approval has been
given.
Lt. Altman: In the last ninety days that this has been increased.
Mr. Plummer: My final question, Lieutenant --and Mr. Andrews, I would like
to have a copy of the report or the study which was done by Lt. Paul Obos--and
this one is going to put you on the spot. I am sorry but I have got to do it.
You were aware of the communications department, as just a normal policeman prior
to 1970 when the change was made. You were exposed to the communications of the
police department. '
Lt.Altman: Yes, sir, as any other officer would be, in the use of the ratio
when necessary.
Mr. Plummer: In your estimation do you feel that the administration or the
Commission, wherever you wish to place the responsibility, did the right thing
by severing it from communications, or do you feel that it should not have been
severed. I would like your opinion as to whether you feel the decision was a
good decision; whether it should not have been done; it has not proven to be the
proper thing to do. Wat is your opinion?
Lt. Altman: -Commissioner, I don't know what brought up the, what instances
were brought up to indicate that a change should be made, but I can at least give
you my opinion as of March, 1973; that the communications unit of the department,
as well as other support units of the department, have not been listened to; have
not been manned; have not been given the attention that they need to support
the policemen in the field. Whether we had it or some other unit had it, the need
for personnel, the requests for upgrading, the surroundings that the people work
in just has not been addressed to. Where you would place the fault; whether it
would be in our own administration; with the Commission or anywhere in the City
administration, I don't know, but it is my feeling that the attention has not
been given to them, and other than th people that you have working there now you
could not operate.
Mrs. Godon: The negative points you brought out --you also brought out there
has been a change in recent times, very recent times. Is that what you said?
Lt. Altman: Yes.
Mrs. Gordon: Then what we are talking about is past tense.
Lt. Altman: Well, Commissioner, I don't know whether we are or not. As
I say, the only thing we have seen is a group of people marching in getting jobs,
or at least being interviewed for jobs, that we have never had before, and this is
an improvement.
Reverend Gibson: I hope my fellow commissioners understand what I am going to
say. You have a supervisor. There is somebody over you. Who made the determina-
tion --who is the logical person to decide whether this ought to be separated or
put back together? Now or then.
Mr. Andrews: Well, at that now and then it probably would be at the staff
level of the Police Department, with the responsibility then with the Chief and
the City Manager and the Communications Department. Between those three a decision
would be arrived at.
19 DEC 191974
•
Reverend Gibson: The point I was trying to make; any man who is over
an administration has to make some certain value judgment that in his mind
operates best for him to accomplish the thing that we hired him to do. So, if
that be the case, I respectfully, as we would say in theology, ----- you . I
understand how you feel, but the Chief when he separated, that was a value
judgment that the Chief had to live with, because he felt, the Chief and the
Manager, jointly, cooperatively, because he felt that was a decision he had to
make. Now what I hope I'm hearing is that as much as I may not want him to, if I
am going to hold him responsible, I'm going to have to live with his value jidg-
ment, and when I don't like that judgment maybe I have to make another judgment.
So, all I am saying is that the chief and the manager at that time thought that
the thing they were trying to accomplish, the direction in which they were
traveling, it was necessary to separate. Now, fortunately, Rose, I think you
hit the nail on the head. I hope the now acting chief won't make that decision
until such time as we get a permanent chief, and that the Manager won't permit
nobody to change what is there until such time as --you understand?
Mr. Plummer: .Lieutenant, is it a fact that the complaint sergeant in many
cases is not a sergeant.
Lt. Altman: In many cases throughout the day.
Mr. Plummer: Isn't it a fact that there are no supervisors actually sitting
on top of communications?
Lt. Altman: If you talk as a police officer who may be in charge when the
sergeant is off, I would consider him to be a supervisor that day, but nobody
of rank may be available for a shift, or a day, depending on the circumstances,
but the officer in there is given the responsibility and the authority to run the
complaint room and to make the decisions necessary as they come up.
Mr. Plummer: But mostly does not have the experience nor the training that a
sergeant would normally receive.
Mayor Ferre: How can that be? I don't understand.
Mr. Plummer: What I am getting at is that due to the lack of personnel in
that department, a Sergeant who has more training, basically more experience and
more knowledge has not been, in fact, a sergeant of communications. They have
had to put, due to the lack of personnel, an individual in there who is just a
regular policeman who could have been on the department one or two years as
opposed to a sergeant who would have been there a minimum of five years.
Mayor Ferre: Lieutenant, let me ask you that, because that --is communications
important?
Lt. Altman: Mr. Mayor, I may have become jealous of the unit since I was made
commander, but I think it isone of the most important units in the Police Depart-
ment. It makes or breaks the image of the deaprtment,and the City, and it is the
lifeline of the officer on the street.
Mayor Ferre: And if we can afford to get, you know, a new press box, as you
say, and do some of these other things, don't you think that perhaps that's one of
the most essential things that we ought to be spending our time, effort and money
on? Isn't that one of the real key areas?
Lt. Altman: I think this is part of the question of many of the employees in
the communication unit.
Mayor Ferre: Do you think the City of Miami --not putting blame; I'll take
the blame, the Commission --do you think we have done the right thing by you in
letting you hang out there without the proper training, without staff, sergeants
not being in charge when they should be; not having proper equipment, turnover,
not properly trained, overburdened with work and so on? Do you think that's right?
2, 11
DEC 191974
Lt. Altman: I don't look at it as a personal affront to me, because I
may be here today and with another unit tomorrow. I am thinking of the people
who work there day in and day out, taking a career of it.
Mayor Ferre: I am not thinking of them. I am thinking of the citizens who
are paying the tab who depend on proper service and I am thinking of the policeman
who is out there sticking his neck out, and who might lose his life. Do you
think that we have met our obligation to the citizens and to the policeman ,ho
is sticking his neck out there?
Lt. Altman: No, sir.
Mr. Plummer: I think you;have got to go further, because you can't place the
blame on this Commission because in a great number of times --at budget time, for
example, we do not have the exrertise to go into a particular area. I can tell
you, for example, on a budget of approximately twenty-four million dollars, nothing
in the last ten years, to my knowledge, has been done to improve the condition of
the complaint room. Without question it is a digrace. I carried some visiting
dignitaries from out of the country through there and I will tell you it was a
disgrace, but when the men see the complaint room, which is the very heart of
their operation, the hell hole that it is, when part of that twenty-four million
dollars that we allocate is taken to make a community relations room and the lux-
urious accommodations compared to the complaint room, and we look into other
areas of the department that seem to be the favorite of certain people, and the
dollars directed toward that area, the concern is, where is the priority? They
are not going in the areas they should be going. Instead of priorities of moneys
being delegated to areas that are key, that are life-saving, they have gone to
public relations; to other areas of that department where maybe the communications
should have been the first priority, because it is the most important unit of that
department, and I think that is what gets hit on the head.
Mayor Ferre: And that's what this is all about. Again I want to repeat; we
are not out here to burn anybody or to put blame on anybody. The only --my only
interest is to put the spotlight and the focus on a problem that has not been
resolved, that is existing today and is causing problems. I think a lot of people
misunderstood at the last hearing when I called the department and asked for an
emergency in Spanish, and then I said that I don't care if a person is Greek, or
talking in Yiddish or Russian, or what have you. What I meant was that a citizen
in distress should be treated like a citizen in distress. I am not saying that
the Police Department of Miami ought to speak Yiddish, or Polish, or what have
you---
Lt. Altman: We can, sir; Yiddish, Polish, German, Russian, Czeckoslovakian---
Mayor Ferre: Lieutenant, the point that I was trying to make is --there are
two points --I am trying to correct a misunderstanding; that I don't expect the
Police Department to be multi-lingual to the extent of speaking fifty languages,
but since half of the population of this community speaks Spanish, many of those
people do not speak English, I am not speaking only of them. If there is, for
example a robbery, and te man who is being robbed is a white, Anglo-Saxon,
Protestant American, and the guy who sees it is a Spanish speaking citizen, and
calls up the department to inform you that this is going on, if you can't com-
municate with that guy, and if half of the people that are in the City speak
Spanish and you can't communicate with them, you can't give the other citizens
the proper knd of service,. So, that's one special area where I do think that in
emergencies we ought to have Spanish-speaking personnel available to tak messages.
Lt. Atman: At the time I was subpoenaed here, it was approximately a quarter
after five, I believe, when you made your call to the complaint room. I was
made aware --someone said they heard the radio program and said someone is going
to call te complaint room and ask somebody in Spanish if they were able to take
the call. Luckily at that time we did have somebody in there; not for that
particular reason, but he was assigned to that shift. Unluckily he was talking to
somebody else at that time and maybe my warning didn't get through in time, and
the clerk you talked to told you to speak English and then finally transferred
you to another number. To tell you the truth I was resentful of it. I thought it
was --if the gentleman who brought this up would have come in, and I believe he
has the freedom of the station, the police station, to come and goy as he pleases
21 DEC 191974
and ask questions, I would have been glad to tell him what shifts and what
dates we did net have a bilingual person.
Mayor Perre: I know I can't help your resentment, but let me tell you
something. That wasn't an original thing, you know. I did that last year, and
Mr. Andrews remembers it, that I was right here --It was the senior citizens,
I think it was, and there must have been about fifty of these older people that
came here and sat down and started telling us about how much bother they have
had that they can't get through to the Police Department, and they started
rattling off examples. I picked up the 'phone and said, give me thenumbei '-f
the Police Deaprtment. I dialed it, ar.3 I spoke in Finnish, and there wasn't a
soul there who could answer me. So don't be resentful; that's a fact.
Lt. Altman: We know it. We are more aware of it than anybody else.
Mayor Ferre: At that time I turned around to Mr. Andrews, and said here is
living proof of what happened. Would you please do something ';bout it. Now,
eight or nine months have gone by, and I don't think we need t, do that twice,
or three tines, and I won't do it to you today, because I am sire you have got at
least two or three Spanish speaking people there waiting for my call.
Lt. Altman: No; nobody is waiting for a call. I think the same gentleman
who brought this to your attention --and using our own Fire Department as a good
example, would not get to the corner and call the Fire Department to see how long
it takes them to get there. It would have been a false alarm type call. At the
time the gentleman was talking to someone, and we have people who do call for all
kinds of reasons. It's an emergency number and should be used as such. We have
people call to find out whether school is open today; how far it is to Miami Beach,
and there are some times when we just don't have the people available the second
you call.
Mayor Ferre: That's fine, Lieutenant, but let me tell you something. The
word in English is emergency. In Spanish it is emergencia. Now would you tell
me, when somebody gets on the phone to you and says, emergencia, that you don't
recognize what that means?
Lt. Altman: I would now.
Mayor Ferre: And you wouldn't then? You mean to tell me that between
emergency and emergencia there is that much of a difference?
Lt. Altman: Realizing what you are saying now I would recognize it, but
people call in a lot of times and are not that able to tell us. They get on
screaming that there has been an accident.
Mayor Ferre: I am not talking about people; I am talking about me. When I
got on that phone I said emergencia; I said it four times, and the guy kept
telling me, speak in English. I can speak English, obviously, but if I kept
repeating Emergencia in Spanish it is obvious that the guy who is saying it
can't speak English.
Lt. Altman: But it would have been an unfair test if Icould have got to
him before and said anybody that calls up give it to the Spanish speaking clerk.
Then, of course, the call would have been handled properly.
Mayor Ferre: But Lieutenant, it shouldn't require the Mayor, before a
Commission meeting or an investigation to make that point for it to be done.
That ought to be automatic.
Lt. Altman: This has been brought out before when we talked about the
shortage of personnel. We can only request. I can't go out on the streets,
and neither can the department, and hire somebody. We have to requrest these
people.
DEC 1.91974
Mayor Ferre: Let me tell you the kind of a problem that this means.
Do you know —and this is a true story --do you know that a man at Jackson
Memokial Hohpital had a leg cut off, amputated, against his will because
there wasn't anybody there who spoke Spanish. I am not Saying it is that
dramatic, but I am just telling you --it isn't that this has become a Spanish
speaking community; it's that citizens have basic rights, and I say that,
logic, if nothing else; not human rights; not the Constitution of the United
States, logic, common sense alone, would have it that if half of this community
don't speak English that we must, Mr. Andrews, solve this problem.
Mr. Plummer: Lt. Altman, let me just try to conclude this thing, because
if we are going to accomplish anything it is not to find out just what the
problems are. I think you readily admit there are problems. Question number
one; do you think in your estimation that the separation has proven to be good,
or should it be returned to communications?
Lt. Altman: I think this is something --if we are not able to give the
officer or the citizen the service, another move should be.made. If we are
able to and we are able to control our own destiny and realize our own problems
and to solve them, then I think 'it should be left.
Mr. Plummer: Finally, do you have any recommem,ations for this Commission
today that you feel are pertinent and of an emergency nature that this Commis-
sion should address right now to help alleviate the problems that exist?
Lt. Altman: No; the number one problem as I stated was the lack of personnel,
which I think is being addressed to now. In fact, there were three people this
morning before I came down here who were applying for jobs. I'know we are going
into a new building in several months. I don't see that any great amount of
money should be spent there, but at least to make this place lLtvable, and when a
request is made to have something done that it shouldn't just be filed in the
round file; that we should see some results of it, and when people come around
and say, what do you need here and we tell them, and then we never hear from
them again, I think this is unfair to the employee. As far as the emergency
nature right now, no.
Mayor Ferre: In other words, Mr. Andrews, what would you, as the commander
of a B-26, when y,.s were at that time a Captain, I think, ---
Mr. Andrews: Lieutenant.
Mayor Ferre: If you were to ask your squad leader, who is Major so and
so, and told him, look, I am having problems with my radio and I need one more
man, because my gunner is having such and such a problem. If for some reason
because the City Commission, or whoever the other bosses were, were saying that
we just don't have the money; don't ask for any men or anything, you would be
kind of demoralized, wouldn't you, if that would happen. What I am trying to
point out is that --we have a problem and nobody is trying to deny it; you don't
deny it, do you?
Mr. Andrews: No, sir; and I am aware of it. We have been attempting to do
something about it. It is quite evident from the additional personnel. I think
Lieutenant Altman would have to admit that we are aware of it.
Mayor Ferre: Paul, I am not accusing you of not being concerned. I am ab-
solutely certain. There are two things that I would absolutely, you know, put
my right arm out on the fire for, and that's your integrity and your concern. I
am not questioning those two things. I know you are concerned, and I know you are
an honest man. That's not what we are talking about here. What we are getting
into now is the system. We dedicated bricks and mortar the other day. Now we
are talking about the system. What I am saying is that obvously this system has
not been responsive to common sense --and I hope that with the new police chief
and with your guidance on this thing that it will be, in this particular problem
specifically.
2i DEC 191974
Mr. Ben Demby appeared and was duly sworn by the Clerk.
Mr. Silver: Please state your rittat and your capacity.
Mr. Denby: Ben Demby, director of Communications for the City ot. Miami,
which does not include the Police Section.
Mr. Silver: How long have you been in that capacity?
Mr Demby: The llth of January will be forty-one years.
Mayor Ferre: During that time has your expertise been in any particular
area?
Mr. Demby: Communications, which I have been playing with since about
1914.
Mayor Ferre: Would you say that --and I hate to make a man blow his own
horn, but let's get it out --do you think that you have been recognized as someone
who is knowledgeable in communications?
Mr. Demby: I think I have. I even get it from all over the world. I
have served in many branches of communications outside thL City of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: Why don't you; give us some examples, very briefly, of some
of the things that you have gotten into that you think were innovative or were
an important break -through in communications over the, past year.
Mr. Denby: I think one thing that we did, and I heard them talk about this
morning --and I kind of feel a little sorry for Lt. Altman in a way --in fact, I
believe in about 1935--Mrs. Gordon, you should appreciate this --we were the
first city in the United States to start using women dispatchers, which we are
still using, the major part are women dispatchers, and we did That because we
felt that it was a type of telephone operation. Our people at no time have
ever been the ones to reach the decisions at all times in the 'olice Department
prior to the transfer being made. There was always a sergeant on duty as a
police representative. I will admit that on many occasions the sergeants would
ask some of our old operators for advice. We pioneered and were issued to first
license in the United States to operate above a hundred megacycles. In fact,
anywhere in the world. Also about ten years later we pioneered and had the
first license to operate above four hundred and sixty megacycles. At that time
the FCC even said that they didn't think it was practical. I have correspondence
to confirm that. We pioneered the walkie-talkie right here in Miami back about
the time of Pearl Harbor. Now it seems to be a national trend, and even inter-
national. The communication should be to the officer and not to the vehicle.
Even some government reports indicate the same thing, because it is ridiculous
for a police officer with the best radio equipment in the world in his car to
run down an alley a hundred feet and have to tell the fellow that holds the gun
on him, don't shoot, I want to go back and get help.
Mayor Ferre: On that vein, why don't you tell us a little bit about these
so-called black -out areas in parts of the downtown. Is that so, and how can
that be remedied?
Mr. Denby: This is a misconception --and I have brougt this up with Chief
Fox and other officials in the Police Deaprtment. This is not a black -out case.
We have a tremendous amount of interference caused by all kinds of transmitters;
even just a couple of days ago we had some interference from transmitters on
your building. WE constantly keep moving, trying to improve. With the help
of the First Federal there downtown we put antennas onto that and operated there
for about eight days when former President Nixon moved a lot of Secret Service
on top of the One Biscayne Towers, which didn't help us any.
Mayor Ferre: We have been giving the FBI and others --you know, they asked
for space and we have been helping them along. I am sorry to hear that that
interfered.
DEC 191974
Mr. Denby: The Secret Service had quite a bit of equipment up on- in
fact, we got away from the Federal Building with some of our antennas which
are on the Federal Building right next to us; moved them up on top of the
First Federal. We no sooner got up there than they took some stuff over to
the Federal Building, the Secret Service did, and moved up there with a
security unit.
Mayor Ferre: Can it be remedied?
Mr. Denby: What I was going to get back to --yes. I think Major McLaug'llin
was here a few minutes ago. They came down to me in reference to a problem they
had for surveillance. We put in a spec:al set-up for that purpose, which is
called full private line. We do not have but one system of that kind in the
City. The problem they have, this interference, on Channel 2 particularly; it
is on all of them. We have some problems on that which we are in the process
now of getting money --we have no problems money won't solve --to correct that.
Channel 2; one of the main problems is --there is nothing wrong with the portables.
They only work in one way, private line. They should be two-way. They are poorly
designed. It would take some administrative orders in the police Department, and
probably in less than 24 hours, to make that full private line and eliminate that
particular problem. But some of these changes have been made when it was taken out
of the Police Department, a lot of this consultant work had all been done in which
we had not been consulted. Mr. Andrews, since he came in --the SRI people have
gotten with us. We are working with them now. We have a little problem on some
terminals; they have got some terminals coming in for some test purposes. We
find that those are not compatible to our system. It isn't that they won't
work. But either those term:nals are going to have modification, or we are going
to make a modification of our major system. These are being worked out now. Mr.
Andrews has arranged for the people to get with us, and I think that is moving for-
ward for the -first time very rapidly. We have been about three weeks trying to
get the technical manuals on these so we could determine what could be done. We
got them in, I believe, three days ago.
Reverend Gibson: You mean to teL1 me that you are the man in charge of all
this highly technical business and all this business is done and you don't know
nothing about it? You aren't consulte.?
Mr. Denby: Ee has consultants for that.
Mayor Ferre: He is not the boas on that.
Reverend Gibson: I can't understand. You know the way I operate my business.
I don't care who educates me. I want to be educated. A dummy in the streets can
teach you something. I think you are the gentleman I referred.to earlier about
that sound system; and it just doesn't make sense to me. What are we playing
this so close to the belt like it is a private club. If we have a communication
problem with all that antenna business, it would appear to me that the thing to do
is to take you into the confidence, and I would hope that SRI wouldn't be talking
about telling us what to do unless they talked to the man who lives with it daily.
Mr. Demby: Let me clarify that. AS I said, Mr. Andrews has been in here.
We have met with them. We have made a change in their people who were recently
on this after Mr. Andrews went in. The gentleman who is in charge of it now has
been working very closely with us. I have not been back to Mr. Andrews with it
because we are proceeding now to get the information so we can go forward with it.
Nov on the Orange Bowl, I am not satisfied with that now. We are in the process
of hoping to improve it much more than it is right now.
Mayor Ferre: There might be some confusion as to exactly the position of
Mr. Denby. Mr. Denby, for many years you have been in charge of communicatons
in the City of Miami. For example right now in the Fire Department you are in
charge of communications in the Fire Deaprtment.
Mr. Demby: Yes, sir; but I'd like to clarify that.
Mayor Ferre: I am going to clarify it with a question. Does that mean
that you have any direct control of what happens in the Fire Deaprtment; or do
you set policy; or do you on the other hand just act as the expert in runnng that
portion of the department, or that service that is rendered to the Fire De rtment?
DEC 191974
•
11111111111{ NOlYYN11111 YYLII
Mr. Denby: We handle all the communications. the dispatching, receiving
of calls; however the policy is set in writing by the Fire Chief. Our personnel
are all aware. They have their fire representative who sits in an adjoining
room similar to that of the Complaint Sergeant at the Police Department to over-
see and act in case the Chief is not there.
Mayor Ferre: Do you follow the Chief's policy?
Mr. Denby: In all cases.
Mayor Ferre: Have you ever had any problems with that?
Mr. Denby: Not in about thirty-five years.
Mayor Ferre: On the other hand, in the case of the Police Department you
were doing that same service to the Police Department; isn't that true?
Mr. Demby: Not quite the way it came out here. The complaint men who took
the calls were always under the Police Department and under a sergeant. We
provided the operating equipment; we provided the operators, and the sergeant
oversees. In other words, everything went to those operators on cards and they
followed those orders.
Mayor Ferre: But in effect you were responsible for the functioning of the
equipment and to see that everything ran smoothly. There was a dual responsibility.
I recognize that. Now that was changed in 1971, and at this time, other than when
you are asked as an advisor you have nothing to do wth the City of Miami Police
Department's communications. Is that correct?
Mr. Demby: Other than the maintenance of the equipment. The selection of
some of the equipment which they purchase does not come through us in many cases.
Mayor Ferre: When this was done in 1971 were you in agreement then and do
you agree now with that?
Mr. Demby: I was advised by a copy of the ordinance that it had been changed.
Mayor Ferre: Did you agree with the decision that was made at that time?
Mr. Demby: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Do you agree with it now?
Mr. Demby: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Now, my question is not directed to how you feel personally
about it, yourself and how it afhects Ben Denby. My question now is going to be
directed to you as a recognized, knowledgeable man in communications. Is there
a better way of doing what we are doing than the way we are doing it now?
Mr. Demby: There is a better way of doing it. Now, just what ways you
want to do it is a policy matter that the Commission and the Manager would have
to establish.
Reverend Gibson: Did anybody talk with you about when they got ready to
change? Did anybody say to you, based on your knowledge and experience, is
that the best way to do it? Would you do it this way?
Mr. Demby: If I am going to get fired for telling you the truth, I'll tell
you no. We were advised by ordinance that the change was being made effective
such and such a date.
Mr. Plummer: I am going to direct my question to the Manager. Mr. Manager,
we heard here this morning. I think, ample testimony that in fact, from what we
had been given to believe, and I was not involved in the administration, nor was
I a friend of Mr. Denby at the time, that the Communications, in fact, worked
better under the old set-up than it works today under the new set-up. I would
like to put you on the spot by you directing a memo to this Commission, since it
DEC 191974
i
was this , or a commmission--I was the only one present --who changed it in 1971
your reasons, if any. You might concur why it should not be sent back to the
old system which seemed to work properly.
Mx. Andrews: I can certainly supply you with that kind of memorandum. I
would ask your indulgence, though, before I supply you with an answer to so serious
a question, because I have visited now a few police jurisdictions, and took the
time to go to the complaint rooms and listen to the dispatchers and to the (Ills
coming in and to relate how those were handled, and while those jurisdiction -
were unaware of why I was asking some of the questions, to try to find out how
these systems were managing from rather successful police departments, and I find
there tat they have gone through various cycles and finally settled on an operation
which is is at this prsent time quite similar to ours, with the added feature
that they have 90% of the people involved in this as police officers. They have
removed civilians from this area, because of their experience factors. So I would
like for you to give me the latitude to look into it further rather than give you
a quick answer.
Mr. Plummer: I am not asking for an answer now. All I In saying is that
number one; you might, after analyzing, concur that this should go back to
communications under Mr. Demby's control. Number two; if you don't disagree, I
would like to know your reasons why you feel it is not a good situation to return,
and then this Commission can have the opportunity to either concur with you or
disagree, and by Commission action do what we think is right. I am not asking for
any answer today or tomorrow. I think it deserves a lot of thought. But the
one point I can't agree with Lt. Altman on; he doesn't want to make radical
changes at this time, and I can appreciate, believe me, I can appreciate not
spending money, but we didn't hesitate to spend $11,000 for a new floor for a
computer, because I am going to tell you the way this crime situation is going
right now, we cannot wait eighteen months to make any major changes.
Mr. Andrews: In the next eighteen ,nonths or more in two years before we are
dully operational over in the new police department we will have expended fifty
million dollars of the public's funds. In order to spend that kind of money we
should with prudence do the very pest we can at this time to provide the kind
of equipment and services that keep that department functioning at maximum cap-
ability; within re•3son. We can't have a modern complaint room. We have to
work within what we have and furnish them the kinds of equipment that they need
to carry on reasonably well.
Reverend Gibson: I just find it not good business to tamper with what is
there when you are now saying, by January 13th I want a police chief aboard.
Now, when you hire men you have some certain concepts in mind. Don't let us
hire a man, the package already, you know, put to gether, and say here is
my package. I don't think this commission ought to do just that, and that's what
you would be doing. I believe if you are going to get the man, hopefully you
will be getting'a trained, kn'awledgeable man. I hope you will not change what
is there until such time as, because if I hear right, once you discover that, we
are going to be asked to change and you will have a man who is a square peg in a
round hole, and yet we ar holding him responsible for the results.
Mayor Ferre: I agree wit your final conclusion. Let me tell you where I
disagree with you in getting to that conclusion. I agree that this should not
be done until the new chief gets here. Let me tell you where I disagree. We
keep saying let's have a study. Well we had a dozen studies and the problem is
still there. We say, let's --the manager is going to make a report and look
into it. Well, the manager didn't take sixty days; he took a hundred and
twenty days, and as far as Iam concerned the report did not bring out the kind
of things that we have brought out in these hearings, which indicate clear
problems. Now the point I am trying to make is one; we have a problem in com-
munications in the Police Deaprtment. Two; the problem is on -going; it is
still with us now. Three; in other sections of the City of Miami the communica-
tions problem has been solved; it functions well. Four; we have an expert in
our midst who is capable of solving the problem. Five; every day that we wait,
2i DEC 191974
as Mr. Andrews said, citizens-ywe can't wait until we have a new police
station in April or March of 1976--I am not saying we are going to wait that
long --I am saying we have a problem. The problem is now. We admit it. It
should be addressed. It should be solved. I don't know what the solution is.
That's not my job. That's nt our job. A11 we are doing here is point out
the problem and pointing out that there ate solutions, or a solution, and I
now becomes incombent upon the Manager to follow up on this and I would agree
with Father Gibson that , since we are so close to January 15th, that we
wait until we have a new police chief to solve it, but solve it we must.
Mr. Plummer: Let me go into another area. Mr. Manager, I would like to
profer to you the same situation as it relates to the new method of the academy.
Number one; do you concur that the academy training that is now being given to
our men is the best, or should ----
Mayor Ferre: We are going to get into that in just about an hour. Now,
Paul, you are the administrator of the City, and I am not saying this in any way
personal. I want you to understand how I feel. I made that little phone call
in Spanish a year ago. A year has passed? Our problem hasn't been solved. Now,
I am a businessman and I have a tendency :o simplify things. I like simplistic
approaches, because I get directions and `rend and I run, and I am going to tell
you, there are four hundred and fifty thousand Spanish speaking people in this
community. If we can't hire one, or two, or three or five people to do the job,
we can't solve the problem.to me as simple as that, then how ire we going to
solve much more complicated problems which are not quite as s::nple. And the
point I am trying to make is that the fact is that the problet has not been
solved. I rest my case.
Reverend Gibson: I would hope that in matters of communication that the
man who is the key to the City should be consulted at all times. I hope that
would be a standard policy. He is --it's just inconceivable.
Mr. Denby: Mr. Mayor, in reference to your bilingual comments, recently
there was a test made by, I believe, some of the press, radio and TV, and they
commented in the paper that they had made a number of calls to the police depart-
ment and all, and the only number that they were successful in getting hold of a
bilingual operator was Metro's number; 377-7777, which happens to be the one in the
City of Miami, anu we have ten bilingua: operators and try to have two on duty at
all times.
Mayor Ferre: You talking about the fire or the police?
Mr. Denby: This number is used for both fire and police, but it was listed
as the only one they could get a bilingual operator was Metro's number.
Mayor Ferre: Is that under your jurisdiction or the Police Department?
Mr. Denby: It is under our jurisdiction.
Mayor Ferre: That's exactly my point, Ben, that you have been able to
solve the problem, and if you call through your system you can get somebody to
answer in Spanish at all times, and if you do it through the City of Miami
Police Department --I am sorry, Lieutenant --it just don't work.
Lt. Altman: Mayor, we now have six people --maybe the reason is because you
called. There are six people who are bilingual; there are two additional re-
cruits who are bilingual who are assigned there for a month, and there are
several more who have been hired and we ar waiting for them to come aboard.
Mayor Ferre: But, friend, I did that last year. You get the point? You
get what I am trying to say? There is one other thing, Lieutenant. Somebody
told as that one of the problems was that we were using the Spanish speaking
personnel to dispatch, and that woman just couldn't, because of a language
distinction, just couldn't handle it. Now, for goodness sake, our problem
with Spanish speaking is not for the police officers, it is for the public. Now
it seems to me absurd, it's true, that we would put a man who has language dif-
ficulty under pressure with English to be dispatching.
28 DEC 191974
Lt. Altman: There was one city employee who took the test, passed it,
and was given a chance as a dispatcher. He did not make it, as well as other
Anglo-Americans did not make it.
Mayor Ferre:But it seems silly to use someone who doesn't have a hundred
per cent. command of the English language to dispatch.
Lt. Altman: This man only was in this job for a couple of weeks, and I
don't even know if he actually got on the radio to dispatch. He was used of our
Channel 4. But it brings up a problem, even in the complaint room, where we
have cletka taking calls, and we have complaints from other citizens who state
that the can't find anybody Who speaks English. This has been documented.
Mayor Ferre: I would be just as indignant, and perhaps even more so, because
I think it is even worse for a citizen to call and find that he can't communicate
in English. I don't think that has ever happened, but --
Lt. Altman: It has happened, and the man has been put back in another posi-
tion because he could not handle the job.
Mayor Ferre: We should not put on people who are not one hundred --as a
first requirement, obviously, is does he speak English? The Spanish department
has got to be a secondary requirement.
Lt. Altman: They take a test; they pass; they are put on a list and they are
given to us to interview; these people we get.
RECESS: The hearing was recessed at 17:35 o'clock P.M.
The Commission reconvened as a Committee of the Whole at 12:35 o'clock P.M.
with the following members present: Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso and Mayor Ferre.
Absent: Reverend Gibson and Mrs. Gordon.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, I don't know whether we are go'ing to have time
today to get into the LEAA Tri-Cultural Grant, but one of the key questions that
I hope we can get into when we get to that point is going to be, where is the
money? It is not here, and I'd like to know why not, after almost a year. What
is holding it up now? The last time was two weeks ago when they promised on a
Wednesday that it would not be more than one week before the money would be
here. It has now been two weeks.
Mr. Joseph. Musial appeared and was duly sworn by the Clerk.
Mr. Silver: Please state your name.and address.
Mr. Musial: Joseph Musial, 1920 SW.33rd Avenue.
Mr. Silver: Are you employed by the Cit of Miami?
Mr. Musial: I am the Supervisor of Identification and Records.
Mr. Silver: I would advise you that any information that you give in answer
to the questions by the Committee may be the subject of a disciplinary proceeding
by the Civil Service Board if such facts indicate a violation of the Civil
Service Rules.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Musial, why don't you tell us in your words how you see the
problems in the I.D. Bureau.
Mr. Musial: These problems that I am going to address are the problems of
the Identification Unit in the Police Deaprtment as I see them. To go backa
little way and just outline what I think of our Identification Bureau. I heard
the statement hhre earlier by you that you could say we have the best fire
department anywhere in the country, and that you couldn't say we had the best
police department. We11,I at one time could say that we did have the best
identification section anywhere in the country.
Mayor Ferre: We did.
DEC 191974
Mr. Musiai: Yes; absolutely. I think that in past years our identification
unit has enjoyed the reputation of being one of the moats progressive ani innova-
tive functions of its kind in the country. We introduced into the police science
a classification system which allows the computerization of recidivists finger-
prints for latent search. This was an innovation of the City of Miami Identifi-
cation section. It is now being utilized all over the country. Video identifi-
cation was introduced by the City of Miami Identification Unit, the first o its
kind anywhere in the world. The method of making visual aids from plastic to
present firearms evidence to a jury. This was a first. It had never been done
anywhere, but it was done by the City of Miami Identification Unit. A palm print
file, plus several other first in the police identification sciences were intro-
duced into the police sciences by the City of Miami Identification Unit. What
has happened? Since 1969, roughly, I can't think of a single thing, or major
contribution the identification unit has made, except to try to do the best job
it can with the limited personnel, limited facilities we have at our disposal.
Frankly, I think we are doing a fine job with what we have, but we are so bogged
down with our workload and the amount of personnel that we have to do the work.
This entails the processing of all prisoners arrested by officers of the! Miami
Police Department; processing all crime scenes for physical evidence, and there
is not much doubt about why I think the morale of the Identification Unit is
undoubtedly the lowest of any unit in the Police Department. During the present
administration there have been sixteen resignations from the unit; sixteen out of
thirty-two, a fifty per cent. turnover in personnel. This is just since 1969 to
date. More resignations can be expected in the near future. Numerous complaints
to the administration by individuals of t;is unit and by this unit as a group have
fallen on deaf ears, and the attitude and the frequent lack of professionalism of
members of this unit reflects our disgust. the Major morale problems in this
unit seem to center around the following: No means of protection on the crime
scene; lack of training; manpower shortages versus increased .irk loads, pay
inequities; numerous disadvantages of not being sworn personae.. From the begin -
nine of this unit until the past five years members of the identification unit
were sworn personnel as police officer. We had the power of arrest; drove
marked police vehicles; were legally armed, and felt ourstives.to•be part Of the
Police Department. Our pay was equal to that of the police personnel; at one
time higher. Unit morale was notably different than at present. I am reading
from some memorandums that were forwarded to administration in petitions and
trying to correct some of what we feel are inequities in the identification
bureau. Next is lack of training. When a police officer is hired he is required
to meet certain standard; high school education; have a Florida drivers license;
be of good character; meet age:, height, weight and physical requirements. He is
then sent through a twenty-six week academy training program to learn to be a
policeman. Upon completion of this training he is assigned to an experienced
police officer for further training. It, is not until after about a half year of
training at City expense that this man is expected to perform as a competent
police officer. When an identification technician is hired he is required to
meet certain physical standards basically; have a Florida Drivers License; be of
good character; meet educational requirements of either an associate degree in
criminology or a bachelors degree in another area oother than criminology, or
previous professional experience in photography or police identification. The
identification technician is given no formal training by the City of Miami.
The training program of the Identification Unit at present consists of learning
procedure and technical data necessary by one employee from another. The major
problem with this type of training is that, in addition to being extremely in-
complete, it is frequently a transfer of short-cuts, mistakes and improper pro-
cedure. Further results of this training process can be found at the crime
scene where valuable evidence can be ruined, overlooked or maintained in such
a manner that it cannot be presented in court. Partially due to court decisions
in recent years physical evidence is frequently a determining factor between a
guilty verdict and a dangerous criminal being freed. It is our opinion that the
costs of this type of training are too great to be continued, and we request a
more professional approach to.a technical, and in some areas, a very complicated
field. Several members of this unit have taken professional courses related to
our profession. However, we feel that the main responsibility of training
should belong to the City of Miami.
at) DEC 191974
Reverend Gibson: If that's what you were doing yesterday what would you
have done today?
Mr. Musial: The in -hiring specifications, I. think, are good. They give us
people with the aptitude to learn this type of work. However, the idea, if I can
go on to our manpower shortage now, which really stymies us in providing the type
of training program would should be available to identification technicians,
rather than put them out in the field before they are fully trained and capable of
performing as competent Identification technicians, this is the problem, really.
We have a tremendous manpower shortage. We have no more than fifteen tezhn cians
that we can put out in the field in any given twenty-four hour period out of these
thirty-two, because we have video identification; we have prisoner processing; we
have civilian identification. Some of these thirty-two are supervisory personnel.
We have no more than fifteen that we can put out in the field in any given twenty-
four hour period.
Reverend Gibson: You will admit that all forms of police training require
some professionalism now. Is that correct?
Mr. Musial: Father, if I may, I'd like to read a resolution that was passed
by the International Association for Identification in its recent conference in
Washington, D.C. pertaining to minimum standards of training and education for
technical personnel.
Mr. Reboso: Mr. Musial, before you do that, can you tell me how many of
the I.D. technicians are attending to academy right now?
Mr. Musial: One.
Mr. Reboso: Mr. Mayor, this is a serious problem that we are having today.
I brought this matter before the City Commission a few months ago. I don't know if
you recall, but onMay 21st I sent a memo to the City Manager asking the minimum
standards that the I.D. technicians, in cm opinion, should be entitled, and these
minimum standards were; a, to be sworn as special officers without additional com-
pensation or benefits; and b, to provide I.D. technicians with weapons so that
they may protect themselves in difficult situations. These difficult situations,
are; number one, arriving at the crime scene before the police -officer arrives.
Number two; in thirty-five per cent. of the cases the police c "ficer, due to the
volume of calls fer police service, has departed the scene pribr to the completion
of all activities by the I.D. technicians. Number three; in fifty per cent. of the
cases the officer has returned to service before the arrival of the I.D. technician.
Due to this fact, we can see that the I.D. technicians are being overly exposed to
the possibility of bodily injury or even death, because we don't know where the
criminals are at that moment. It could be close to the scene. On June 14th I
followed with another memorandum to the City Manager, and on June 25th I received
an answer from the City Manager. The memo I have here says, please be advised
that this matter is being reviewed and I will keep you advised accordingly. That
was in June 25th. On August 26th I sent another letter to the City Manager that
I will read into the record. I said, onMay 21st, 1974, Isent you a memorandum
with reference to the I.D. technicians in the City of Miami Police Department.
On June 17, 1974 I sent to your office a.copy of a new report. I requested on
May 21st, 1974, a prompt reply. As of today I have not received any information
with reference to the I. D. technicians. I would again ask you for a prmpt reply.
That was on August 26th. September 30t I received a memo from the City Manager --
and that is the reason I was asking this question of Mr. Musial, because I think
the answer was very clear and I thought the problem was solved. In this memo the
City Manager told me that it has been determined that the police department can
no longer assign an on -duty police officer to the task of standing by while I. D.
technicians process crime scenes. We must find a way to release the officer
from the scene as early as possible in order that he may respond to other calls
for police service. For this reason it is desirable that I. D. technicians be
provided with weapons, so that they may protect themselves in difficult situations.
This is a situation, Mr. Mayor, and we have citizens here that are carrying
weapons in the streets, and I am talking about people who are licensed to carry
weapons, and in a few cases some of those people have been charged with criminal
activities and were not convicted, and then we are talking about a group of
people working within the Miami Police Department that are not allowed to de-
fend themselves in difficult situations.
31 DEC 191974
•
Mayor Ferre: Here is another case, you know, of this calling up in Spanish
to the Police Department. I remember when I was a Commissioner here in either
1968 or 1969, around budget time this whole matter came up. We went through a
whole rigamarole. There were about ten or fifteen of the men from the ID section
that came down here to request this. Subsequent to that it was determined, as
I remember I was trying to find out what Metro; what the Public Safety Deaprt=
went does, and they allow their men to carry weapons for self-protection. I
understand that in the majority of the police departments in the country this is
done that way. Now, here we are under a crunch for more men; need for money:
rising costs, and the Vice -Mayor starts writing in May, then it goes to Jiie,
and then it goes to August, and then September, and finally you decide to Lhange
the policy, as I understand it, and here we are in December and as I understand
it it still hasn't been done. My question is, I have been aware that this
problem existed since 1968 or 1968, at least four or five years. Reboso has
been pursuing it continuously and forcefully all of this year, and here we are
at the end of the year and it still hasn';t been done. What is it that we need
to do to get these things done? What's the problem?
Mr. Andrews: Can I call upon Assistant Chief Fox to explain a part of the
problem. We have made, I believe, application to Metropolitan Dade County to
seek permission to permit them to carry these weapons.
Mr. Kenneth Fox: I have been involved almost directly in this problem since
1969, and the questions you raise aren't simple ones to answer. But first let me
address the question of firearms. We have decided, we in the department, that it
is practical to arm our identification people. We want to do that. I want them
armed so that they can protect themselves on the street. We can no longer afford
the luxury of having a police officer stand by at the scene of a crime for an hour
or more for protection. So, then two things: First of all, the City Manger
has addressed a letter to Mr. Ray Goode of Dade County asking that our identifica-
tion technicians be licensed county -wide through their facility. They have the
machinery to do that. It is my understanding on an informal basis at this point
that they aregoing to turn us down on that request, although we have not yet re-
ceived a written response. In view of that, then, I have asked our legal adviser
to prepare a statement as to her opinion as to wheether or not we can legally do
this under the special officer program, under the City of Miami special officer
ordinance. The memorandum has been written by her and submitted to Mr Lloyd,
and I don't know whether Mr. Lloyd has had a chance to review it, but I don't
know what the outcome of that is going to be. If we can do this legally --and the
key to the question is this; the minimum standards law interferes in the Police
Chief issuing special officers cards. The State Statute requires that when you
give persons powers of arrest and powers of law enforcement that he meet the
minimum standards of the State of Florida. Now what this means to us is that our
identification technicians do not meet thc3e minimum standards. We are in a dif-
ferent situation than Dade County is. Dade County calls their people special
deputy sheriffs. Our identification technicians are not police officers, and that's
the key difference.
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask --I know, like all these matters, -there are ramifica-
tions and complexities to it --but let me ask you some questions. When did you,
and by you I mean the department staff, come to the realization or the recognition
or the decision that you could no longer afford to have officers standing there
while an ID man is making his study?
Chief Fox: In October of this year.
Mayor Ferre:This is a matter that has been under discussion and has been
a problem for five years that I know of.
Chief Fox: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Well, for years.
Chief Fox: No, sir.
34
DEC 191974
Mayor Ferre: Well, I was here when it was brought up in 1969.
Chief Fox: The question was raised, but it hasn't been a problem until
recently.
Mayor Ferre: I distinctly remember at least ten people, and maybe twelve
or thirteen, sitting right here and maybe coming up and protesting, and they
were worried about that there might be problems if they protested, but they
thought it was important enough, so they all stuck together and came here rtd
protested; and that was in '68 or '69.
Chief Fox: Mr. Mayor, the problem did not exist until very recently, and I
made the decision in October, myself, that I would pursue arming the identification
technicians. As of December we have no response, to my knowledge from the County,
and we have, so far, no legal opinion saying that it is legal for us to do it the
other way.
Mr. Plummer: You sad you made the decision in October. Obviously by the
memo which the Commissioner has the Manager made the decision in September. What's
the date?
Mr. Reboso: September 30th.
Mr. Plummer: Now, the point that I think we are trying to bring out --he
started these memos back in, when?
Mr. Reboso: May 21st.
Mr. Plummer: Ten months ago. Why does a Commissioner have to do this?
Why didn't the department do it themselves and recognize the need? That's the
question that is a basic question.
Chief Fox: The department has been addressing these questions since 1969.
This is just one of several that the identification technicians will raise,
probably, today. But I am addressing this one area of the arming of the identi-
fication technicians to single out the problems involved just in it --and there
are ramifications in all of the other things they are going to raise here. There
are no simple solutions to this.
Mr. Plummer: Up until about five years ago the ID technicians were armed;
correct?
Chief Fox: They were special officers under the City ordinance, and that
was prior to a state statute that required minimum standards training to arm
them.
Mr. Plummer: The answer to my question is up until about five years ago
they were armed.
Chief Fox: I don't know when it ended. I would have to inquire about that.
Mr. Musial: That was January, 1969.
Mr. Plummer: Five years ago. Can you tell me why was the decision made to
disarm them?
Chief Fox: I don't recall why, particularly. I do know that it was made by
the combined thinking of the then staff of the Miami Police Department, the senior
staff, but the particular reason why they were disarmed I don't recall.
Mr. Plummer: Are yeti questioning the fact that the chief, whoever he is,
or the Acting Chief, is there some question in your mind that he does nothave
the authority today to issue a special police officer's card?
Chief Fox: Yes. In view of the State Statute on the subject there is a
question about that; definitely.
DEC 1.91974
• •
Mr. Reboso: Mr. Lloyd, have you read the memo that Chief Fox sent?
Mr. Lloyd: We have just checked and we have no record of having received
such'a memo. However, I might say this regarding the special police officers
permits, I do have prepared in my office a memorandum of law on whethr or not
the special police officers come under the minimum standards law. I'll get that
memorandum of law down here this afternoon so that we may review it, because at
this point I do not exactly recollect what it does say, but I can have it down
here inside of an hour.
Mr. Plummer: You know, I hate to say this, but tomorrow morning and ID
technicial gets killed and we get an answer tomorrow night. Why do we have to
operate that way? This city has just got beyond the point of being a small city.
We cannot afford the so-called luxury of bureaucracy of taking months and months
and months, study upon study upon study, with no ultimate result. A point that
I was going to get into later. On Tuesday night, I am sure Joe, being the super-
visor is aware, and Herbie Altman has got to be more aware, they had calls for
ID for break-ins and whatever they use ID, and when one policeman called in he
was told he was thirtieth on a list.
Mr. Musial: Thirty-two.
Mr. Plummer: Approximately a five -hour wait. I rmember very vividly Mr.
Reese making to comment here one day, Paul, and it is probably worse today than
when he made the comment. He said, we arcs lucky if we get twenty-four hours of
street time out of a man paying him for f,rty hours. Now, if a man has to stand
on the scene for five hours waiting for I;i, I am sure that this situation is com-
pounded many times over today. I don't understand why it takes --why do we get
,locked up in this blasted red tape all the time when we are trying to do
something to mae it a better situation for not only thepolice )ut for everyone?
Why can't we find a way. If there is anything that has been Nought out in these
hearings it is that we have got to find a way to cut this red tape and make de-
cisions.
Mayor Ferre: That's the whole point. It is nt that we need another study.
We have been studied to death. We have got all kinds of studies. What is wrong,
as I see it, Mr. Andrews, is that we go around putting out fires all the time
rather than implementing and making basic common sense decisions and getting
them done. Here is something that just drags on and on and o, and I beg to
differ with the Assistant Chief; this isn't a recent problems. As far as I am
concerned I remember the very same thing discussed and arguing going on in 1969,
and the guy that made a big issue of it then was Irwin Christie. I remember he
was sitting right in this chair, in the very same chair that Commissioner Reboso
is sitting in, and he was making those very same arguments, and here we are
five years later, and he started in May or June and August and September and
October, and he made his decision on this thing, and it Still hasn't been done.
Chief Fox: I don't disagree with you that this has been under discussion
for many years. Iam saying the problem has existed only recently. The fact that
it was under discussion by members of the identification unit does not necessar-
ily mean that we have to arrive at decisions in their behalf unless we think
they are correct ones.
Mayor Ferre I understand that, but Chief the very same conditions that exist
today existed five years ago, and if you have come to a logical conclusion today
you could have come to that same logical conclusion four or five years ago.
Chief Fox: Mr. Mayor, I am not so sure that this is the logical approach,
but it's the only one Isee at this time; to arm the identification technicians
to release the officers back to street duty. That's what it is all about.
Mayor Ferre: My point is that it was valid four years ago, just as it
is now, and the problem was there because ID men were under the same kind of
threats to their lives and bodies five years ago as they are now, and those
ten or twelve men that were here were making the very same arguments that have
been made here today. I am not faulting you, because it is now you alone. I
as saying that there is something wrong with the system when it takes so long
to get something decided; number one, and number two; to get it done.
34 DEC 191974
Chief Pox: Let me make one more point. The identification technicians have
some valid considerations to present'to you, but let me say one thing to you; the
technicians mould like to have the benefits of .eing a police officer. They
would like to share in the one per cent. funds chat come from the state, the in-
centive money that comes through the state. They would like to have those
fringe benefits. They would like to be part of the police pension programs.
Mayor Ferret You don't blame them for that do you?
Chief Fox: I don't blame them a bit; but without the responsibility of being
a police officer.
Mr. Plummer: Isn't there still a vehicle today for a private citizen to apply
to carry weapons?
Chief Fox: To carry weapons, yes sir.
Mr. Plummer: Do they have to meet minimum standards of a police officer?
Chief Fox: No, sir.
Mr. Plummer: My question is answered.
Reverend Gibson: ut they don't carry the same responsibility, though. If
somebody gets killed that's different. I agree they ought to be protected, and
all that, but I want that requirement met.
Mr. Plummer: Today is the 19th day of December. I want to see how long it is
going to take to implement that one order.
Mr. Musial: The arming of the identification technicians is just one part of
the things that need correcting in the Identification Section. That is one major
part, but there are others. One, I think, that should be our biggest complaint is
the manpower shortage and our workload right now. Just as Lt. Altman says that he
suffers with a tremendous manpower shortage in the Communications Section, this --
some figures that I have put together here --it says in 1967 theIdentification Unit
was increased in manpower to thirty-two men. The present identification employment
of thirty-two men is an increase of zero per cent. in seven years. It seems a bit
absurd that since the department has grown twenty-four per cent., from 629 police
officers in 1967 to 781 at present During the same period of time of these thirty-
two men assigned to the identification unit twelve are either supervisory or
specialty positions, such as video detail,,or dark room assignments, fingerprint
coding, civilian identification, latent pr..nt detail and prisoner processing,
leaving fifteen men to cover the crime scene processing, seven days a week, twenty-
four hours. Tuesday night we had, as you said, Commissioner Plummer, tirty-two calls
backed up; two people on overtime, from the late shift who had come in early, and
we didn't get caught up with that thirty-two backlog until about eight o'clock the
following morning. When you carry a case load of crime scene processing of more
than ten cases per shift per technician, what in hell kind of a job are you going
to have to do on the crime scene looking for physical evidence. All you can do is
hit the high spots. There is so much physical evidence being ignored simply be-
cause we are forced to merely hit the high spots. There is a lot more than finger-
prints on a crime scene.
Mayor Ferre: Joe, let me interrupt you right now, because it is a very
appropriate time to make a point. I had an assistant State Attorney come to see
me --and I am sorry I am not at liberty to release his name, because he didn't
want to get involved in this whole thing, but he told me --and I want you to tell
me whether you think this is an accurate statement --he said --and he wasn't blaming
the quality --he said whatever the problems are --and I am not blaming the quality
of the men --he said, for whatever the reasons are we in the State Attorney's
office are not getting the right kind of identification and evidence to prosecute,
and I will physically show you how our batting average is less than half in those
areas that we prosecute that come from the City of Miami compared to Metropolitan
Dade County, who he said have one of the best ID Bureaus, and he said, my recommenda-
tion to you is either you turn this thing over to Metropolitan DAde County and let
theta do the work, because they have got the equipment and the people and the
trainees, or you do something dramatic, because every time I have to try a City
of Miami case I say, here we go again, because most of the time we just don't have
3o DEC191974
sufficient evidence. Now is that an accurate statement or do you that that is
inaccurate?
Mt. Musial: That's exactly what I am trying to put across to you; that there
is a lot more out these on a crime scene to be obtained in the way of physical
evidence than just fingerprints or taking a photograph or two, and this is the
area in which most of our technicians, at least half of them, lack any training
whatsoever. Now you talk about minimum standards, let me go on with this, you
are talking about minimut standards for police officers. I am talking about
minimum standards for technical people. It is a different thing the way I .m
looking at it. There is a resolution I'd like to read here, from the International
Association for Identification: Whereas there are minimum standards established
under our criminal justice system for police officers; and whereas, there are no
minimum standards established for technical personnel operating within this same
criminal justice system,in the disciplines of fingerprinting, forensic photography,
question document examination, firearms examination, forensic chemistry, and
whereas, the physical evidence handled by technical personnel is extremely import -
tent in our modern court systems; and whereas, we suffer embarrassment and diffi-
culties in all these disciplines from time to time by erroneous evidence being
presented by incompetent personnel, and whereas, the International Association
for Identification is dedicated to the advancement of police science and all its
disciplines; now, therefore, be it resolved; that all members of the International
Association for Identification, both collectively and individually continue to
strive for the establishment of minimum standards and training for technical per-
sonnel within our criminal justice system; and beit further resolved that a copy
of this resolution be forwarded to all state legislative bodies for consideration.
This resolution was unanimously adopted by the 59th Annual Conference of the
International Association for Identification at Arlington, Virginia, August 1st
1974. So you can see from this --this is an International oganization. This is
not a local problem. This problem is actually nation-wide, and international, as
far as I am concerned. They all through that, well, when they first tried to
adopt minimum standards for police officers that this couldn't be done. A little
town up in the boondocks, where are they going to get their training for their
police officers, and this sort of things. Well, they overcame the problem, and
moat of the junior colleges around the country do have programs established to
prepare police oficers with the minimum standards. What weuld like to see ac-
complished, and this is as good a place to start as any right here with the City
of Miami to set these minimum standards for technical personnel. Now they are
not the same type of minimum standards that a police officer would have to meet.
For example, we don't need all of the PT and all this sort of thing. But we do
need workshop programs in the areas of photography, fingerprinting, question
document examination, firearms examination, chemistry and the like. These
programs can be set up right within our own police department and our own
police academy. These type of workshop programs. If we are given the assignment,
given enough manpower that we can afford to train these people; and my God, I
don't think in this day and age we can afford not to train them and get these
kind of complaints that you say you got frm the State Attorney. This is ridicu-
lous. We have manpower available right here in the county and wihtin our own de-
partment who have the expertise to teach in these particular fields. A little
over a year ago I had a man who came to work for me by the name of Charles Samen,
I was so happy to get Charlie come to work because Charlie has an excellent
academic background; came out of Washington, D.C. and all expertise in these
fields that I am talking about, and my verbal commitment to Mr. Samen was, if
you come to work for me, Charlie, I want to use you as a training officer, if
we can get this thing set up, which is something we have been pushing for in
the department all these years; and I was never able to accomplish this, and
finally Mr. Samen left in disgust. I was forced to use him as an Identification
Tech One working out in the field, and this is ridiculous; just a big waste of
talent. And why -you spend money to train and education police officers to give
them all the minimum standards. Why do we ignore the identification technicians?
Why can't they get the same type of training in their particular responsibilities?
As far as the manpower shortage, in the past seven years the number of prisoners
processed by this unit is 852, based on a number of new arrests in 1967, 3,182
compared with the number of new arrests processed in the last twelve months, which
is 5,864. The number of scenes processed has also increased substantially and
also adding to our manpower shortage. Our furlough assignmentst such as school
rssource presentations, promotions, chief's office presentations, retirement parties;
with the exception of people to do the work nearly everything has increased sub-
stantially. We are forced, really, to put people out in the field with no more
training except how to dust for fingerprints and operate a camera. They have no
31.3
DEC 191974
training in how to keep from contaminating certain types of trace evidence; how
to record fuel marks, and some of the other things that a good identification
technician should know. As we say, there is a lot more evidence out Lhere other
than just fingerprints and photographs.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Musial, we are running out of time.
Mr. Plummer: The obvious questions is have you in your official capacity
as head of the ID Bureau, made requests for additional personnel; have you
made the request for additional equipment; through your supervisors, or as you say,
through channels?
Mr. Musial: These things that I have been reading from are copies, or ex-
cerpts from the vatious memos that have been forwarded for several years to the
police administration. Let's get back to another thing. They finally approved
six tech -ones and one tech-t'%o. I asked for eight tech -ones and two tech -twos.
And following the past meeting down here where you said they had to increase the
Internal Security unit; they 'sere too shorthanded, and so on --and where the heck
do you think tey stole the manpower from to increase your Internal Security Unit?
They stole one of my identification technicians. We are all hurting. I can
sympathize with Lt. Altman in communiations. I can sympathize with Major McLaughlin
in Internal Security. Certainly there is a manpower shortage. I have one, too.
Why do you have to rob Peter to pay Paul?
Mayor Ferre: My problem with ID is twofold. Number one, Mr. Andrews, is the
point that the question of priorities, or where we are spending our money. I am
for computers, and all that, but this is nitty gritty, basic stuff. Number two,
I am bothered about the question of trainee and qualifications and the type of
product that we are putting out. Now the Assistant State Attorney says that our
product is no good, and I am sure he is not coming to tell me a secret. I am
sure he has been --and I. asked him why and he said, well he can't get this thing
resolved --and I am sure you know who I am talking about --that he has been, he has
tried to solve it and it just can't be solved. He said that he has met a brick
wall; he can't solve it. Now I'd like to call Mr. Charles Samen up once more,
because I want -- because it ispertinent at this point.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute. We have heard the problems. Before Mr. Samen
talks I want to know what is going to be done for the solution.
Mayor Ferre: If you will permit me, I want to very quickly accent it again.
I know he has testified before, and this is only going to be for a minute. I
just want to remind the Commission, while Mr. Samen is being sworn in, that Mr.
Samen retired from the Washington Police Department, after I think it was eighteen
years; that he had well over a hundred men under his command; that he was the top
man in a department which is larger than the City of Miami's in identification;
and if you remember some of the things that he said they spoke exactly to this
point; to the lack of quality; to the lack of concern, in his opinion; to the
lack of meeting and solving the problem, and if you will very briefly highlight
that again so that we can get on to some of these solutions.
Mr. Charles Samen appeared and was duly sworn by the Clerk.
Mr. Silver: Please state your name and address.
Mr. Samen: Charles C. Samen, 14301 SW 92nd Avenue, Miami, Florida.
Mr. Silver: And you are not currently employed by the City of Miami, are you?
Mr. Samen:NO I am not.
Mr. Silver; Please proceed.
3.i
DEC 191974
Mr. Semen: In the short time, or the year that I was with the City of
Miami it became apparent to me, within three weeks, that there existed a de-
ficiency within the identification system, and this deficiency consisted of
the technicians being unknowledgeable and not receiving proper instrucdions
in basic law enforcement procedures; that many technicians were unskilled in
basic crime scene functions and procedures and not afforded any type of worth-
while training. They had a lank of necessary criminalistic materials for crime
scene processing. Inadequate office space. They don't even have proper facil-
ities to sit down and write any type of comprehensive report. Inadequate
examination room for processing of evidence. Lack of any standard operating
procedures as far as crime scene investigation; lack of suff=cient amount of
alotted time for preparing cases. There was little communications between the
technicians. One technician wasn't even aware of what the technician he was
relieving had accomplished during his tour of duty. There was very little, if
any, training given to the technicians in the proper preparation of cases
for court, such as preparing resumes, making evidence exhibits, and ack of
processing time. They do not have the time to even work on the evidence. And
I would like to sum this up: Past statistics have shown that ill-equipped, un-
skilled technicians processing crime scenes is often disastrous and dangerous
to the over-all crime scene investigation, and usually important evidence is i,ot
discovered or properly handled, and the case goes unsolved or a conviction is
impossible.
Captain Ben Pritchard appeared and was duly sworn by the Clerk.
Mr. Silver: Please state your name and official position, please.
Mr. Pritchard: Ben Pritchard. I am a Captain with th City of Miami Police
Deaprtment.
Mr. Silver: And what is your specific area, sir, that you are in control of?
Capt. Pritchard: I am presently part of management in the Police Department
My official title is Commander of Services Sectj.on. This encompasses communications,
property and supply, records and identification.
Mr. Silver: I advise you that any information that you may give in answer to
the questions by this committee may be the subject of a disciplinary proceeding
by the Civil Service Board if such facts indicate a violation of the Civil Service
Rules.
Mayor Ferre: You have heard now the testimony presented here by Lt. Altman
and Ben Demby on communications. You have heard the statements made by Joe
Musial and Mr. Semen. Starting with ID Bureau, do you concur with the main
thrust of what has been said here today? If you do, if you want to amplify; if
you don't where do you disagree; and mainly the point I think it is time to get
to now is, how can we solve this problem?
Capt. Pritchard: In reference to the identification function and the problems
surrrounding this particular and important activity, and with precise reference to
arming of the identification technicians, this particular situation was directed
to my attention just about the same time as Commissioner Reboso said that he for-
warded his memo, and this memo came to me through channels directed to me, and
I made quite an intensive study of the matter. The study that 1 conduced per-
sonally with Mr. Musial and the men in the ID Unit, and most of the documentation,
the statistics derived from that study are contained in this document.
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me for interrupting you but I want to make sure that we
understand something before you proceed --and this is just my personal opinion.
The question of arming of ID men is important, but incidental to the main thing
I think the serious problem that we are on is the insufficiency of men, the lack
of property training and the problems that ensue from that, and that's really what
I want you to speak to. If you want to cover this problem of arming the ID men,
that's fine but in the over-all scope of it, I think it is not the main, essential
item. What I want to know in just plain simple words is, are we doing the best
Job possible; if not, why not. In other words, you heard the testimony of Joe
Musial and Charles Semen, Is it true, and if it isn't true, then refute it, and
if it is true and you want to add to it, add to it, and what I really want to find
out from you is how can we solve it?
DEC 191974
3
Capt. Pritchard: I substantively agree with what was said. t don't thily'
the training of bur identifica=ion technicians, their ability to perform in the
field is quite as bad as it sounded to me. I believe we have a copra of very
capable identification technicians in our Police Department. I do believe they
have not been allowed to perform at their maximum efficiency.
Mayor Ferre: Why?
Capt. Pritchard: One of the reasons, as has already bean pointed out, is
the lack of the sufficient number of men to perform the function required o. a
twenty-four hour basis seven days a week, and at the same time to carry on some
type of meaningful training program. To do these things together we need moee
people and we are talking about more money.
Mr. Plummer: This thing is a little bit backwards. We should have had as
the first item personnel and training. I don't think it is any secret to anyone
as to the number of so-called able bodied, combat men that are sitting in that
station pushing desks. Now I am going to tell you that in my personal opinion
that is one of the greatest problems we have. We put a man to a test of rigid
physical and mental; he works as a policeman and the next thing you know he is
brught in and put in a planning department, orin juvenile. 'Basically what I am
saying is we have got more men, I think, working at desk work in the station
than we do out on the street. Aren't there a great number of sworn police
officers working itt the station doing desk jobs? I think the crux of the
matter is, and the question that Iwould like answered is, why aren't these men
out working on the streets, rather than pushing a desk, where you could have
someoe making phone calls and taking reports as a civilian employee rather than
using the policemen?
Chief Fox: I don't know when the last time any of ou have been in the
police department. Mr. Mayor, you haven't been there at all, to my knowledge.
Mayor Ferre: I haven't been where?
Chief Fox: To the Police Department; to visit with us; to come see us.
As a matter of fact we invited you to come down there some months ago and we
burned the midnight oil to do our homework to get ready for you ---
Mayor Ferre: Now, let me interrupt you, because you have made something and
I want to make a statement to you.
Chief Fox: Well, I am not finished yet.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I want to make a statement anyway, and then you can con-
tinue. I want you to know that I,one of the first things Idid when I became
interim Mayor was to request permission from the Manager, which I must do once I
become Mayor, to go down there, and that was scheduled as you may recall, and
I wasn't able to keep the appointment. And then after that, I forget how many
months, when I asked again, Mr. Andrews, as you recall, you said, well this is
not the best timing and it might be misinterpreted if you get down there, and
for that reason, because of the problems that I think have been misunderstood
about my position with Chief Garmire I have purposely stayed away from doing what
I normally would have and wanted to do, and I fully expect, Mr. Andrews, that
once you choose a new chief and these hearings are over that I am going to
again request your permission to go down there and do this.
Chief Fox: Well, our purpose in having you there, and we were delighted
when you offered to come there --was to show you wat the Police Department
really is; what it is all about, because it is obvious to me that you don't
understand the organization of the department. The statements you made, Commis-
sioner, is that why do we have so many people sitting at desks. Well, first of
all I question what number you are using, because, in my opinion, there aren't
that many, and secondly the people that are at desks have to be there. Somebody
has to do the work in the department. You can't put a policeman on the street
without somebody back in the shop to support him, and those people in the.shop
are supporting the officer on the street. The job has to get done. The planning
jobs have to get done, the budgeting jobs have to get done; the training functions,
all of it. Somebody has to do it. Now the alternatives to having policemen in-
doors is to have civilians indoors, and you know what happened to our budget.
We did not get the civilians to put in the shop.
;3:,1 DEC 19197
Mayor Ferre: Now all these things that have come ous: in testimony in
these three hearings; none of them have been any news to you. Is that right?
There are really no surprises here?
Chief Fox: Any surprises?
Mayor Ferre: Yes; all these things that have come out; you have known about
them, haven't you.
Chief Fox: Just a minute. When I came down here this morning and looked
at the witness list I had no idea what these people were going to say to you.
Mayor Ferre: I am talking about the last two meetings. All the testimony
that has come out of them, in my opinion, even though I haven't been in the
department recently, I think we have shown some problems. I am asking you
point blank whether or not, yes or no, you were aware of the things that have
been brought out?
Chief Fox: I am aware of most of them, but you haven't gotten to the heart
of any of them. You haven't gotten to the truth of any of these matters yet.
Mayor Ferre: You have been aware of the problems, have you?
Chief Fox: I think, for the most part, yes I have.
Mayor Ferre: As Assistant Chief.
Chief Fox: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: All right, now let me ask you, in your opinion, has everything
been done that should have been done to correct those problems?
Chief Fox: No; and the problems haven't been identified. You have not
identified the problems. You have only heard testimony from some witnesses who --
I don't know where they came from or where you got them --but you have heard one
side of the statement without getting the true facts. You don't understand the
problems.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, we just solved the problem. Mr. Fox says he knows
where the problems are. Let's hear them. Swear him in.
Mrs. Gordon: Wait a minute, Mr. Plummer. I heard the same thing you heard.
And what I heard is what I have been saying right along; let's hear the whole
story. Let it all hang out on both sides of the story; not one, and we have
only been hearing one side of it, and I agree with what I just now heard.
Mayor Ferre: Mrs. Gordon, these are open meetings, and I have been telling
you and repeating to you that any time you have anybody you want to bring up, or
anybody nn this Commission, or anybody in this City that wants to come up and talk
these microphones are open. This is a public hearing. A public hearing is for
public information. If you have something in mind, or if Chief Fox has something
that'he thinks we have been misinformed on or that we don't know I want him to
tell it to us just the way it is. We are not trying to hide anything here. The
purpose of these meetings is information. I know that people around here are
very loathe to have some of the light shed on the problems and they don't want
light shed on the problems. Now if that's the case, that's fine, but this is
an open hearing; those microphones are open to the public. If anybody has any
different story or gripes, or counter -charges, or anything they want to say,
they are welcome to cow,e here. This is not a dictatorship. Nobody is denied --
the public, including yourself as a Commissioner--ifyou have something to refute,
bring it up.
Mrs. Gordon: Iam not refuting. I am just saying every story has two sides,
and we have only been hearing one side.
DEC 191974
Mayor Ferret Of course, everything has two sides, I agree with that; and
as I keep shying, this is not a jury; I am not the judge; he isnot Richard
Gerstein;•he is not the prosecutor; there is no jury sitting around here. All
W+e are doing is taking testimony to bring out facts. If you disagree, Chief
Fox, with the testimony; if you think that it has been one-sided, then sir I
charge you with the responsibility of bringing out the other side and making it
apparent.
Chief Fox: Ibd be happy to. Which point would you like to address?
Mrs. Gordon: That's what I like to hear.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute. Let's do this thing orderly. Ken, you made a
statement,that we have hit in many areas, but we have not hit the problem.
Chief Fox: Correct.
i
Mr. Plummer: What I think it behooves you to do is to go back over the
three days of hearings and hit on the problem of the areas that we hit.
Chief Fox: I'll be delighted to do that. I have said that. When do you
want to begin?
Unidentified person in the audience: What kind of protection are you going
to offer Chief Fox ---
Mayor Ferre: Look, you have been making a lot of comments back there. Why
don't you come up and identify yourself and tell us who you are, so we will
know, you know, who the applause is coming from.
Mr. Hamersley: I am certain that you know me by this time.
Mayor Ferre: I am sure I do, but maybe the public might now.
Mr. Silver: Please state your name and address.
Mr. Hamersley: My name is Bruce Hamersley and my address is 7711 SW 132nd
Avenue. The only concern that I have at this time, as I stated, is that you offer
Assistant Chief Fcx the same respect that you offered a witness earlier, and
that is to give him the protection that you offered so completely to another wit-
ness earlier. I think, in fact, for the first time someone is going to address
the issue and to present the other side, and si:ce he is a City employee I think
you offer him the respect and the courtesy of giving him the protection that
will allow him to speak freely.
Mayor Ferre: Absolutely.
Mr. Plummer: Have you seen anyone here who has not been given that respect?
Mr. Ramersley: I have seen many occasions today, and fought myself vigor-
ously to hold back comments on a public basis until this moment. I have seen
many people subtley and very vigorously intimidated. I have seen other very
subtle attempts to in fact ----- to the point of a quiet, subtle atmosphere
which pervades throughout this process and which inhibits the exhibition or
demonstration of the truth in an interest to in fact demonstrate what may be
justice. If you are actually and factually intent on finding out what the truth
is, and what the problems may be, then go to the experts; the people who in fact
have offered management skills to the department, and let them begin to give
you some indication of how they have identified these problems and what efforts
can be generated in an organized fashion to deal with these problems.
Mayor Ferre: Well, Dr. Hamersley, let me tell you that in my personal
opinion one of the problems that we have is that we have been listening to too
many professional experts, and that there have been too many professional opinions
and not enough common sense around this police department.
Mr. Hameraley: I agree, Mr. Mayor, but you have been listening, possibly --
and I en referring —to the wrong experts, and you may in fact look to the police
department to give you some indication of those resources that they can draw
upon to get expertise --
41
DEC 191974
Mayor Ferre: We are not listening to experts; we are listening to citizens
and people, some of them who want to speak, and others within the department
that are knowledgeable and have to speak in order to get to the heart of the
matter. Now I a:h very happy that Chief Fox wants to make a statement today, and
I would like very much for him to come back and continue with his statement.
Mr. Hamersley: I have one final question, Mr. Mayor. Do you have any idea
what amount of money per capita the City of Miami actually pays to support the
police service in your city?
Mayor Ferre: Let me tell you that it is very close to a hundred dollars per
persoh.
Mr. Hamersley: It's thirty-six dollars per person.
Mayor Ferre: it is more than that. When you take twenty-four million dollars
that we have in our budget right now and add to that two add to that two and a
half million dollars that we are getting in federal subsidies, which makes it
twenty-seven and a half million dollars, and you add all the ancilary stuff that
goes with it, and you have three hundred and forty thousand citizens, it is a lot
more than thirty-five dollars per person.
Mr. Hamersley: I'll provide the research that in fact has given me the
indication ---
Mayor Ferre: Dr., you don't need research for that one. That's something
you can come to real quick. We don't need to have a big study on that one.
Mr. Plummer: What bearing does that have?
Mr. Hamersley: The Dade County average, in terms of fiscal support for
police services is forty-two dollars. Another indication is that the fire ser-
vice in Miami receives twenty-seven dollars, whic h is proportionately higher
than any other municipality in Dade County.
Mr. Plummer: You are saying that twenty -seven --and I really see no bearing
to this whatsoever --but are you saying that the twenty-seven dollars is per person
for the fire department?
Mr. Hamersley: Per capita.
Mr. Plummer: Sir, I strongly suggest, strongly, because a man with a little
bit of knowledge is dangerous --
Mr. Hamersley: This was printed in the Miami Herald less than five months
ago.
Mr. Plummer: May I strongly suggest that you avail yourself of a copy of the
budget and just compare the two.
Mayor Ferre: Now let's get on with the substance here. If we could have
Chief Fox back. Chief, I'll tell you, you are welcome to make any statement
that you feel appropriate. Go ahead.
Mr. Plummer: There is only one qualm that I have, and I want you to hear
this, Kenny, and I want the manager to hear this. Mr. Mayor, if I think I know
Kenny Fox --and I think I know him pretty well --this is not going to be done
within an hour of questioning,. My concern, Mr. Mayor, is that Kenny Fox is
one of the persons being considered for the position of Chief. Now, you are
going to have to make this decision; not me. I don't want to place him in any
jeopardy of any kind with him being considered ---
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, that's his decision.
Mr. Plummer: I am just saying it in advance, Kenny. I don't want anybody
to come back here later and say, well, Kenny Fox was knowked out because you asked
him to speak.
DEC 191974
Mrs. Gordon: Knocked out by whom?
Mayor Ferre: By the Manager.
Mrs. Gordon: Why, because he wants to tell two sides of the story?
Chief Fox: I know the risk I am taking.
Mrs. Gordon: I want to hear it.
Mayor Ferre: As Chairman of this board I am going to make the following
statement, and this is the way we are going to do it. Chief Fox, I want to tell
you, sir, that I think it is important after you have made the statement that
you have, that you follow through and we take whatever time is necessary to let
you speak abundantly, specifically and as far as you want to whatever points you
want to refer to. Now, what Plummer has stated, I think, is a fair warning, be-
cause you are a Contender for the permanent chief's job, and that is a decision
that only you can make. I cannot --and I don't want anybody to misinterpret what
Plummer is saying, or what I would say in backing him, to say that, you know, we
forced you.into a situation that knocked you out of the game. I want you to speak,
but it is your decision, and if you don't want to do it now and wait until the
Chief is appointed and at that time you want to make the statement, I'll be very
happy, and commit myself, to call a special hearing at that time just to hear
your statement.
Reverend Gibson: I kno how people act and react. That's part of my business.
Sir, if I were you, knowing people as I do, I would speak. Don't let these other
boys off the hook. I mean those who have to make that decision, to choose their
chief, you understand? When we go looking for a Bishop or a Priest, man, we have
got a lot of things in our minds that we don't even like; you know what I mean?
Human nature in the ministry isn't any different than the police department. I'll
tell you what I would rather have 'you do, if you take advice from a fool --and I
may be that fool --I would wait until they choose their chief, and then say to the
Mayor, OK, now put it on. I want to be fair by you, as fair as I know to be, and
I don't want you to jeopardize your chances, because you may get down to the wire;
you know what I mean? And Mr. Andrews, I am not doubting him, but Mr. Andrews is
just as much human as am, and I know what can happen. Man, it isn't worth it.
Don't let them off. I suggest to you --I am not your lawyer; I am not your spiritual
adviser, but I wan- to tell you this: As a spiritual adviser, make it so doggone
difficult that if they don't choose you they either got to --you know what I mean?
He went against the system. Don't do that to yourself.
Mayor Ferre: Father, that's fine, but I don't want a cloud having over this
Commission on something like this. And Chief, I'll tell you, that's fine and
you heard what Father is saying, and it is your choice. You do That you want to.
If you don't choose to do it at this time we are going to have another hearing
and I am going to ask you to come back and clarify your statement, becase 'don't
want any clouds having over this Commission. Now, I make a very simple statement
of fact. The City of Miami Police Department has problems. They are serious
problems. Now, we can spend ten hours or a hundred hours talking about it,
and anybody who wants to play political games to deny that, I challenge them
and refute them to do anything they want. Now, you may be talking about style.
You may be talking about how we brought about this. You may be talking about
the one-sidedness of all these things, and there I have no argument with you. I
am just saying that I, as the City's Mayor, and this Commission has one and only
one vehicle to go on, and that's public opinion, because the charter does not
give this Mayor or this Commission the authority to make any changes or get
involved other than in an investigation, and that's exactly what this process
is all about, and I want to see somebody document how, and I just want the
opportunity of rebuttal. This Commission, and what we have done over these three
hearings, has brought out substantial evidence of, not wrongdoings, potential
problems --and I keep repeating that; potential problems. Some of them may be
fictitious and some of them may be real, but certainly there has been enough
smoke coming out of this place that something has got to be hot.
Reverend Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I want to go on record as saying to you I
believe we have a lot of problems in the Police Department, but I hope, just as
I go on record to say we have the problems, I hope the five of us who sit up
here would be willing to take the necessary steps to have open heart surgery to
correct the problems. Now, that's where the real rub comes, Brother Fox, because
4d
DEC 191974
if you tell us the other side, the Commitment ougt to be that we want to have
open heart Surgery; clean up the mess and get about the business I urge youi
as a friend -wand we are no drinking partners; we are no lock -arm partners. I
only knew you because you are the Assistant Chief. I think I have seen you,
talked with you, I doubt more than five times in may whole of knowing you. I
want to tell you as a friend, I wouldn't do it.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, with your kind permission, may I speak?
Mayor Ferre: Go right ahead, Mrs. Godon. Nobody has ever stopped you,
least of all yourself.
Mrs. Gordon: I take exception to that
but I will continue if you will let me.
Mayor Ferre: You really do.
Mrs. Gordon: I want to commend you,
courage. I would like to hear you speak.
story. I'd like to hear it whenever you
to have you say it without interruption.
Chief Fox: Yes I would.
Mrs. Gordon: I'd like to hear you.
Mayor Ferre: Go right ahead, Chief.
Whereupon Chief fox was sworn by the
staement. There are strong stresses,
Chief Fox. I think you are a man of
I would like to have you tell the whole
are ready to tell it to us;and I'd like
You want to say it today?
Clerk.
Mr. Silver: Please state your name and official capacity, sir.
Chief Fox: Kenneth Fox, Assistant Chief of Police, Miami Police Department.
Mayor Ferre: Go ahead, Chief.
Chief Fox: Mr. Mayor and Commissioners, I appreciate all the comments you
have made, and I want to tell you first of all that I understand the risk I am
taking; I understand where I am in the department; I am in an appointed position
right now; I could be reduced in rank. A lot of things could happen to me. But
be it as it may, I think that someone has to say this; and I am going to say it;
and if you will listen to me, I'd like to wait until Father Gibson gets back if
you don't mind. (Pause) Reverend Gibson returned.
Chief Fox (continuing): My statement is a very simple one, and it won't take
long, Mr. Mayor, unless you have questions to ask me, but I am willing to stay
as long as you prefer. I'll be here to answer them as honestly and straight-
forwardly as I can. But somebody has to stand up here and tell you, the Commis-
sioners of this city, what you are doing. This is not an organized talk. I may
ramble, but I feel something in the gut that I have got to tell you about.
First of all, you have scheduled three days of hearings here, ostensibly to get
to the truth about the police department. And that is your right. You are per-
fectly within your rights, and you should do that. If you feel a need, you are
obligated to do it. Let me tell you, addressing that point, that we are the most
investigated and looked at and examined department in the whole city, perhaps in
the whole state. We had the State Attorney looking at us, the Grand Jury, we have
had examining bodies from everywhere coming in. Civil rights groups. We have
than from every corner of this world coming to look at us and examine us and turn
us over, and try to find out what makes us tick. So you are only one of many, but
you are a very important group to us; extremely important. Your attitude toward
your departments reflects throughout the entire community. What you do and say
here is heard all over. And I think one thing that you have done is you have
generated many complaints about the department that, really, maybe they were
valid complaints and maybe they weren't. I won't argue the merits of those. But
you have generated additional complaints about the department by virtue of these
hearings. Probably the most wrongful thing you have done is to call witnesses
that have one point of view, possibly picked by someone --I don't know who picked
the witnesses --brought them here, heard their point of view, and you turn to the
Manager and say, Paul, what the hell are you doing about it? Now how do you ex-
pect him to respond to questions like that? Why don't you ask us to rebut, or
at least to respond -rand I am not saying that all of your witnesses were incorrect
44 DEC 191974
in their statements. There are a to of truthful things said, and a lot of
misunderstandings created through the testimony. To cite one example; just,
this morning we heard from Mr. Denby and Lt. Altman of the Communications unit
in the Police Department, and narrowing it down to a small area, let me say,
as I heard Mr Demby say, that he had suggested to Chief Fox a way to correct
the problem and all it takes is an administrative order and everything is re-
solved. If Mr. Denby were here now I would expect someone to ask him, what do
you mean by that? What administrative directive? What does it entail? Because
let me tell you something. When Mr. Demby spoke to me it wasn't that pat. In
order to correct the problem we had to give up our mobile radios, OK? We h•d to
sacrifice the mobile radios in the car, the very point, Mr. Mayor, that you
brought out, that why can't we use the best equipment? Why depend on portables?
We would have had to give up our best equipment and rely on portables. But no
one asked that question. Somebody should. Somebody should dig into the details
of these complaints and find out what they are really about. That's why I say
when you don;t know the --you don't understand the problems, and I can see that,
because you don't understand the two sides. You have only heard one. Now, I
don't know that you are going to have any more hearings. If you are you had
better schedule another three or four days, beause I would like to have an attorney
and call my witnesses and bring them all before you to rebut everything that has
been going on here, or at least to respond. If you have the time I sure have.
Mayor Ferre: Now, Chief, let me respond, if I may, to the five or six per-
tinent points that you made. I want to repeat again to you and to the public
that it is not our role to act here as a Judge, or a jury, or a prosecutor, or
an advocate. We are an investigatory bcpsly investigating information. Now, with
regard to, have we asked for a response. The Manager has been asked on several
occasions, and has responded, that ever) pertinent point that has been brought out
here will be investigated and will be responded to. It is not our role, since we
are not experts in professional police work, to understand everything that happens.
Our role --let me finish and then you cn rebut that --our role here is to bring out the
problems as we see them. Now, with the exception of two people, I will tell you
that I picked every single witness myself, and I have made these schedules. Good
or bad, I will take the full responsibility. If there is blame, you put the blame.
on Maurice Ferre, because I am the one that has been doing all of this work, and
I have spent literally hundreds of hours looking into it. I am not an expert.
It is not my expertise. I do not know. I felt that it was incumbent upon me as
Mayor of the City of Miami, to bring this.thing out in the open. Why? Because,
Chief, your statement is pretty typical of the type of statements --with all due
respect --that I hr.e even heard from the manager; that tae problems are are not --
this is the way I have heard it, even though there is a change in this, or maybe
I heard it wrong --that the problems are not major problems; that the problems are
problems that are on their way to being corrected. I have head that there was
going to be another study made, or that they are going to have professionals
look at this. But the fact remains; yes we have been the most overstudied de-
partment, but if you look at the conclusions of most, not all, of those results,
whether it be the Jacobs Study, or SRI, or Sir John Waldron of Scotland Yard, or
two Grand Juries, they come back and pretty well say the same thing, and what
they are saying is there are functional problems; there is a lack of discipline,
and there is a lack of direction; there is a lack of top management direction in
this department. It is in Sir John Waldron's statement, the former headof
Scotland Yard. It's in the Jacobs Report, which is funded by the Police Founda-
dation, which is part of the Ford Foundation, and it has been in almost every
report that I have read, either clearly, or in between the lines; directly or
indirectly. Now, the fact is that we may have been the most overstudied complex
in Florida, but the fact is that the general conclusion is about the same in
every study that has been made. Now c.e details may be different. Some people
attribute the problem to Civil Service. Others attribute it to lack of direction,
and what have you. I don't think there is any question, in my opinion, that
what we have heard here, one-sided as it may be, is certainly going to be con-
ducive in the long run to the airing of these problems, and therefore to the
eventual solution of these problems. Now, there are problems that have
existed in this department for years and years and years, whether it be com-
munications, or ID, or what have you, and they have not been solved. The little
example of that telephone call that I made last year and again this year is typical.
The question of the arming of the ID men is typical of the problems that are
identified; that are agreed upon sometimes, and yet they don't find solutions.
I hate to continually compare the Fire Department to the Police Department. The
fact is that the fire department has not been studied as the Police Department,
but the fact also is that we have the lowest insurance rating in the United
States; that we have a triple A rating for fire; that we have been recognized
and_ewarded all kinds of prizes; that our Chief has been the Chief of the
4:.i DEC 191974
International Police; that people come from Tacoma, Washington, and all over
the country and the world to see how we do what we have done so successfully;
that we go out and we have a recruitment program and it is successful, to get
minorities in, and after five years we have the same number of blacks now as we
had five years ago, almost to the man, within two or three people, after all
these attempts, and operation badge, and operation what have you, and a
hundred thousand from the federal government, and five hundred thousand in federal
grants for this, and two and a half million dollars in grants and studies, •nd we
have here a department that is spending over twenty-five million dollars a year
when you put it all together, including the grants, for a thousand man depart-
ment, with three hundred forty thousand citizens, and we still don't have any more
blacks. So you can argue all you want, and you can say that we have been unfair
and that we have been one -sided --and I will agree that we have been one -sided --
I will agree that a lot of these things, when we find out, will have been exag-
gerations, and even lies on the part of some of these people that have come be-
fore us. That does not take away the underlying truth; that we have problems;
that they are serious problems; that they have not been properly aired; that
they are beginning to come out. I haven't brought out the Dixon and the Cook case
because they are still pending cases. If I am forced to, regardless of what the
City Attorney tells me, I will bring up the Cook and the Dixon cases and we will
go right from one end down to the end and go over these things andsee exactly how
they have been handled and point out the axact problems that have happened in the
department. I am sure that there are two- sides to it. 'I have no doubt about it,
but I also have no doubt that what happened happened, and you.. know just as well
as I do that a lot of the things that happened were not appro riate; should not
happen in a well functioning department, and I don't think th t anybody standing
here can refute the underlying fact, not the detail of it; a:.d as I stated here
before democracy is a matter in which you can compromise and change details, but
not principles; and I go back and I say the detail, just because somebody was
asking me a half an hour ago, well, how about this case? If it's wrong what
does that mean with the other cases? If we have fifty situations before us, and
five of them are wrong, that does not make the other forty-five wrong, and I repeat
it is not the detail of the case but the underlying thread; that we know something
is wrong here, and we also know that it has been wrong; that it hasn't been cor-
rected, and I'll stand on that, and I'll stand alone if I have to.
Reverend Gib:,on: I want to say this:
Chief Fox: I want to respond also.
Mr. Plummer: I think Kenny should have a chance to answer the Mayor.
Chief Fox: Mr. Mayor, you have missed my whole point, and I want to say
again, and perhaps I am not using the right words, Ihave yet to hear anyone
stand here and say there are no problems in the police department. I am not
saying that. I did not say that. There are problems in the police department.
I'll say it that way; there are problems in the police department. A11 right?
My point is that you don't understand them. You don't know what the problems
really are.
I accept that.
Chief Fox: You brought up some excellent examples yourself. You seem to
have arrived at conclusions without the kind of information you should have to
make those decisions. And this is All I am saying to you. You just don't
understand it. You don't understand the police organization. You don't know
how we work. You don't know the functions that go on in the Police Department.
Mayor Ferre: I accept that, Chief.
Chief Fox: And I want to explain them to you. At some time I want you to
understand them.
Mayor Ferre: I accept that. And you missed my point. My point is that it
is not necessary for me to understand all of these things because I am not acting
as the surgeon. I am not the judge. I am not the jury. The only thing that I
am trying to do here is point out the problems, so that we will get correction
with the ID Department; so that we will straighten out communications; so that
4E)
DEC 191974
that policeman who hasn't had a faincoat for a year and a half will get his
raincoat, if it's true; I don't know whether it is true or not. Maybe Officer
Kowalsky was lying; I don't know. I am not here to refute officer Kowalski back
at the station. The fact is that he stood here and he swore that for a year and
a half he has been requisitioniig a raincoat and has been unable to get it. I
know that to some people that's a little piddling detail, but I'll tell you, if
you are an officer of the City of Miami and you are out there risking your life,
and you ask for a raincoat, and they can't even give you a raincoat, then w at
the hell are we talking about computers for?
Chief Fox: Mr. Mayor, you are not a judge or a jury, or any of the things you
said you were, But you are a truthfinder, and my comment, sir, is that you have
neither sought nor found the truth. i
Mayor Ferre: I am sorry that you feel that way, Chief, but let me tell you
that I think we have been seeking the tru h, and I hope that you will help us find
it.
Reverend Gibson: I am not a part of this, but I want to s-leak to the people
now. One of the things that my dean taught me in the seminar}, and that is that I
am like you. You know money,with Maule, and I know people, film the ministry. OK?
Let me tell you something. One of the things the dean taught me in the seminary
is that the same people who heard the first sermon on the first Sunday in the
month may not hear it on the second Sunday. Keep that in mind. The point is we
may well learn something from this and maybe we need to restructure. If we are
going to have these hearings, maybe as we are going to raise the point of
the right hand over the left hand maybe we ought to plan it far enough ahead so
that the left hand could be here and be given an opportunity to rebut or to speak
to the issue, because the people who watch us on television today and get one im-
pression may not watch the net time we have the hearing. A very important thing.
And let me say further; we may not be a judge and jury, but the people have a
peculiar way of being both judge and jury, and they see here only one side of
the story, providing there is another, they would have judged and given the de-
cision, and all that you say after would be after the fact. Now, again, Mr. Mayor,
I want to agree with you that there is trouble in the Police Department. There is
no question in my mind, and I think all of us ought to just come up and say, yes,
we have problems -and again, because I am going to challenge this Commission later
on --I hope that this Commission would have the backbone, the courage to stand up
and have the surgery that it needs. When you do that, man, these hearings get to
be meaningful. We would have heard what the ills were, and then we are going to
take the road that will lead us to righteousness, meaning to lead us to try to
solve the problems. Now we mey not always be successful, but we have the respon-
sibility of trying to be successful. And I think you have got an idea what I am
talking about, and Mr. Andrews knows what I am talking about, because I talked •
with him yesterday, and I sure am going to bring it right out on the table, and
I hope hope you do, too.
Mayor Ferre: You see, Chief, you made a pretty strong statement there saying
that you didn't think we were out seeking the truth, you know, and the accusation
at one time was that all this was to get Chief Garmire, but Chief Garmire is long
gone and this Mayor isn't stopping; you understand? And I am not going to stop if
I stand alone, and I don't think I am going to be standing alone, until we get this
department humming, and I mean humming the right way and going the right way I -.am
pot going to stand here and be lectured --and I am not talking about you, or anybody
in particular --on self-righteous principles of what is right and what is wrong
when I know, even though I am not a professional in the Police Department, that
something is wrong, and I know that it hasn't been properly addressed, because
the facts speak for,'themselves. We are now standing on December 19, 1974, and
we are still plagued with the problems we were plagued with when I started on
this Commission in 1967 and 1968 and '69, and we still continue with a lot of
these problems. And I am not going to hide. I could have kept my mouth shut.
I could have kept very quiet. We didn't have to have these hearings. The moment
the Chief said he was going to resign I could have taken the easy road out. I
could have said, OK, the Chief is gone now. He was the problem. He was the guy
that was to blame, and from now on we don't have to have any more hearings. We
will let nature take its course. I could have done that.
Chief Fox: Mr. Mayor, I really don't know what motivates you. You have
4'i
DEC 191974
alluded to your motivation, and i really don't know what motivates you, so I
can't respond to that. My comments simply are directed to the methods used
to find out what the department is , what is going on in the department, and
I am only saying that you haven't learned aything here. This is my comment.,
Mayor Ferre: Why don't you tell us, then. Let's hear it.
Chief Fox: I'll be happy to; and you will have three days of hearings. and
be happy to go over it point by point and you will hear it.
Mayor Ferre: I'll tell you what you do. You get yourself ready for that.
You go over the testimony and all these things, and bring back all the witnesses
and all the people you want to, and as far as I am concerned, we can go right
through it and you bring the other side, and let's get it all out in the open. I
am for that, man; I am all the way for that one. Let's go. We are going to get
this thing, and let's continue these things, and let's get all these things
cleared.
Reverend Gibson: Mr. Mayor, this is t.y last comment on that. I hope we will
get the other person; but if that is the case then we ocght not choose a chief
until we get all this on the table, because what he is telling you may have some
bearing on those guys we are looking at. Let's realize that, too. Now that's
where the real mustard is. Now I am for you. I want to hear •our side because I
maybe getting me a guide contrary to real good thinking polic'. We need to hear
it all.
Mayor Ferre: Chief, Iwant to really congratulate you for speaking up. I
think that's fine. I wish you had done it with the very first feeling that you
had that was bothering you about what was going on in these hearings.
Mr. Plummer: The only thing, Kenney, I would suggest to you that as you leave
here today, that you prepare yourself --and we have to understand these are your
views and what you think --that you prepare yourself that you are willing to come
back here and tell it as you • see it and as how you think it is. Now, you have
known me an awful long time, long before I ever got in politics, and my motives are
not anything other than the fact to try to straighten this department out, because
of the problems that we hear continuously►. Whether they are real or unreal problems,
we the Commission, act as a buffer, if you will, between you and the public. We are
the ones to catch the heat; we are the ones that call on the telephone, and people
continuously complain; not one, not two, but many. We are the ones that stand
for election on a good record or a bad. I just earnestly solicit you to come here and
to tell your side of the story as you see it and as you feel it exists. And I will
go further. I would not only like to hear from you, but any other man in that
department who feels that he has something to offer for the betterment of the
department. I think that's the whole name of this game of investigation.
Mayor Ferre: You don't think that has been under question, do you?
Mr. Plummer: Well, I am sure it has, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Y-ou don't think that people here didn't think they could come
and speak openly?
Mr. Plummer: Yes, sir; I'll tell you some of them have expressed that without
question; that they can't speak openly and they are not going to stick their neck
on the line.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, well that's for another reason.
Mr. Plummer: What I am saying is that these hearings, as far as J.L. Plummer
is concerned, have solely been for the purpose of trying to improve the depart-
ment, and if you have something to offer, or any other member of the department,
I want to hear about it, because if we are going to have a meaningful result of
these hearings, God forbid that I have sat here for twenty-four hours and accom-
plished nothing.
46 DEC 191974
Chief Fox: Commissioner, you made tte point yourself at one of the hearings
that this is supposed to be a, I don't knew what word ynu used, fact-finding in-
vestigation, and let's get at the facts; And that's the point I am making. You
have not done that.
Mayor Ferre: Well, then help us.
Chief Fox: I will be delighted, Mr. Mayor, and Commissioners, at any time
you say, to come back here prepared to respond to each and every point that +as
mentioned here, if it takes three days.
Mayor Ferre: Chief, let me make one additional personal point, since there
are some people who are rather cynical about my intentions and what Imean. I
want to make a little public announcement right now, so that everybody understands.
I was accused of doing this to get Chief Garmire, and that wasn't the case. I
was accused of doing this for.the purpose of publicity. That hasn't been the
case. I have been accused of doing this because I want to run for public office.
Well, let me announce to you today that I will not seek any other office except
the office of the Mayor of Mimi. I will not run in the next term or the following
term, or any interim thereafter for Congress, for the Governor of Florida, or for
U. S. Senate. I will not accept any post that is offered to me; federal, state or
otherwise, and I intend to run again and again and again until the people won't have
me anymore, as Mayor of Miami until I see this job done; and that's the only thing
I am going to run for in the immediate future as far as I can see or whatever years
to come that I need to run until I am satisfied that this job has been done. I am
making this as a solemn oath right here today.
Mr. Plummer: I don't kncw whether we have got it resolved. Mr. Andrews, do
you have any problems with him coming back and testifying?
Mr. Andrews: No, sir; other than by the 15th of January I plan to appoint a
chief of police.
Mr. Plummer: Is it your suggestion that it be after the 15th?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: I would only suggestto you, Kenny, that any time after the 15th
of January you notify the Mayor --
Mrs. Gordon: Are you kidding? I am sorry, but I just heard Father Gibson
make the statement and you completely ignored him.
Mr. Plummer: Father Gibson is entitled to his opinion; you are entitled to
yours, and I still think J. L. is entitled to his.
Mr. Reboso: Mr. Mayor ---
Reverend Gibson: But the cards are stacked at that rate.
Mr. Andrews: Well, then I could qualify that by the 15th, which I have
continuously said, this depends on the results of the IAPC and their recommendation.
Reverend Gibson: Wait a minute, now. I am no fool, man. I understand --I am
like Bill Beggs; I am not a lawyer, but I sure know how to understand English.
Let's make sure we understand where we are coming from. I am concerned, because
if you are going to let it hang out let it hang out, because --and before we
leave here this evening I want to raise a question in public for the public to hear.
''- Reboso and then I'll recognize you.
Mayor Ferre: I am going to recognize you in a minute. Let's hear from Mr.
. Mr. Reboso: Mr. Mayor, at the opening of the first meeting I made some re-
marks that it was my opinion that we were destroying the Miami Police Department.
I think If we go ahead with this meeting it is going to bring both sides at the
same time. We are not going to be fair with the Miami Police Department. It is
DEC 19174
true that we have been listening to one, side only, but I said at the beginning
three meetings ago that was the reason, in my opinion, we never should proceed
with these meetings. If we go back again and have three more meetings, let me
tell you that we are going to have ten more meetings, and what we are Going to
the Miami Police Department is unfair, because if we do this same thing to any
private institution in Dade County we destroy the institution.
Mayor Ferre: That's exactly the point; this is not a private institution.
We are about the public's business; and let me say, as St. Beraard once sai•'
if offense conies from truth it is better that offense come than truth be del'ed.
You cannot, as Rabbi Landau said, you cannot have justice without truth. It .re
are seeking justice here and we are seeking to correct wrongdoing, then it must
be with truth.
Mr. Reboso: Mr. Mayor, we have been listening to police brutality the first
meeting, but we haven't listened here to the civilian brutality. Policemen are
being attacked in the streets of Miami every day, doing their duty, and this is
not in the papers. I have a case before me a few weeks ago of a Latin policeman
whose jaw was broken at Flagler and 27th Avenue, and it is not in the papers. No-
body talks about civilian brutality, and the police have a job to do, and I
think it is very clear, as I said in the second meeting that all of us here
recognize the problems in the Police Department, but we should give the oppor-
tunity to the City Manager and the new Chief of Police to solve those problems.
I think if we keep going with these meetings it is going to be a detriment to the
Miami Police Department.
Mrs. Gordon: We all have our own opinions. I sat through these meetings
because I am a part of this Commission, and I have cringed inside because I heard
only one little part of this person's gripe and that person's gripe, and I have
wanted to know the facts, and now I have an opportunity to hear the facts, and
you, Mr. Manager, should want to hear it, too, because you have to make a deci-
sion and you should want two sides of what you have heard; otherwise you should
not have been present at these one-sided hearings that we have been having,
which may or may not influence your decision, and I think that these meetings
that we have been requested to have should be held, and they should be held be-
fore you make your determination on who you would like to have for the new
chief. Otherwise they have very little additional value. They have value now
because now is the time when we can hear everything that has to be heard, and
we are, as the May..;r said, an investigating committee for information. Why
should we just hear the negative? Why can't we hear the whole story? Why can`t
we hear it before you make a selection. Tell me why.
Mr. Andrews: Because, for one reason or another, this process has been going
on for, whatever reason; my fault, or anybody, since May the 24th, and it won't
be long that it is going to be May 24th again, and maybe June, July and August
again, and what I am concerned about is that for one reason or another we are
going to keep delaying this needed appointment.
Mrs. Gordon: You don't want to hear anything ---
Mr. Andrews: I want to hear everything he has to say.
Mrs. Gordon: I don't mean after you make your selection. I mean before.
You don't want to hear it before?
Mr. Andrews: What I am saying is that the Chief of Police that is
selected has to recognize all of these whether he hears them now or later, and
he is going to have to cope with all of these. If we have to select a chief
of police based on the kind of testimony that is brought out at this meeting and
use that as a guide, ---
Mrs. Gordon: Then .what are we having these meetings for?
Mayor Ferre: It has nothing to do with the slection of a chief.
Mrs. Gordon: I am not so sure.
Mayer: Oh, is this a new accusation now? Is this a new one now?
btl
DEC 191974
Mrs. Gordon: I want to hear two sides of the story.
Mayor Ferre: No, you just made a statement that you are not so sure that
we are not having these hearings --
Mrs. Gordon: I am not so sure I have heard the whole story.
Mayor Ferre: No, no; I thought you said you are not so sure in answer to
what he said, which was that this has nothing to do with the choosing of tV-.
chief.
Mrs. Gordon: I am not so sure that what he has heard hasn't influenced his
thinking.
Mr. Andrews: I can tell you it has not.
Mrs. Gordon: Would it influence you if you heard another side, or if you
heard the rest of the story?
Mr. Andrews: I think what you are getting into is ---
Mrs. Gordon: I want you to call this hearing, the rest of these hearings
before the 15th, and before you make your final decision.
Mayor Ferre: I want to tell you that if we do that I am going into the
Cook and Dixon case, and I am sorry, Mr. Lloyd ---
Mrs. Gordon: I don't respond to threats.
Mayor Ferre: No; you are not being threatened, because you don't care anyway.
I am dealing with something else completely. I am saying that the Cook and the
Dixon cases that, on petition of our Legal Department, I have not gone out and gone
into; I am going into them.
Reverend Gibson: I hope you gentlemen will get off your feet and let Mr.
Andrews answer these questions for me. I don't want anybody to disturb Mr.
Andrews now. As I listened to all of the testimony that has gone on I have become
tremendously concerned and worried, because when I received your memorandum about
the qualifications for the police chief I didn't find in there certain things that
I think are germaine--and I deal in personnel; not personalities but personnel.
All that we heard here --we talked about excellency and the other bit. Very import-
ant. I understand this and I don't agree with everybody. Nobody can tell me that
in 1974 that you could start talking about qualifications of police chief in the
generalities that we got from you. I insisted --I was the one person on this
Commission who insisted that you write —put in black and white, which they tell
me from past experience and even up till today that black and white don't lie --
and I told you that the qualifications you write, you were looking for a man
will tell us an awful lot.Everything I am saying out here in public I said to him
in private. He didn't tell me, don't say it, and if he did it wouldn't make any
difference. I am tremendously concerned that the man in the identification
bureau told you about the qualificatons that they are looking for in men who work
in the Identification Bureau, and he told you about the resolution they passed
and you gave us the qualifications of the man you are looking for, which is a sub-
jective thing that, if I don't like you for one reason, you could do the other.
But what I am talking about more specifically is in 1974 I can't see why we can't
raise the qualifications; that we can't do it in our minds and in our thoughts,
the educational qualifications of the man to be our next Chief of Police. I
want you to remember, you the public, that whoever gets to be the new Chief of
Police mustbe the kind of a man who will address himself to all the issues
that were brought here. He may not do it personally, but he must have the sense
to hire the people, or the know-how to go find them so that they could take care
of the issues that have been addressed. And what really disturbs me, so that the
public can understand, if you were looking for an engineer you would go ahead and
get a man who has gone on and done his thing. Let's take the legal profession.
I think in a day like this you don't send a man to law school until he has gone
maybe to the junior college, or the college and got a rather broad liberal arts
education. Let's assume that maybe he doesn't go to either one of those, but he
ought to have the equivalent. I know you are going to tell me, well that's what
the academy is all about. Let me tell you what really distresses me about that
kind of an attitude and approach. You have any number of men right now who are
a � DEC 191974
*oing to the junior college getting an associate degree. The identification
people are talking about an associate degree or liberal arts degree. Mr.
Andrews, I want to tell you what we discovered in the ministry. I don't want
you to ever forget this. Thy! danger of putting men up high who are not in the
process of promoting themselves or advancing themselves, or the danger of put-
ting men up there who don't have it --this is the danger; it isn't always the
case --the likelihood is he must be over 750 men, many of whom will be better
prepared than he and then he develops an inferiority complex. No way in thv
world in this day and time will we pay the kind of money that we are paying for
a chief unless a man has some certain delineated, identifiable, underatandab'a
qualifications. Now all those things, I trust I understand them, but they are
technical for me, but I think the average John Q Public understands two years
of college, or four years of college --and I told you before how I watched about
two weeks ago the Today Show, and on that Today Show was the Chief of Police of
Kansas City. Remember that? That bothers me. I would hope that Miami, being
the gateway to the Latin Americas --and perhaps we have more multiplicity of
traditions here than perhaps even New York; certainly in one solid block we have --
that we would be dealing with excellency. Let me make another observation for
the public. The Chief of Police is to get out and represent the whole community,
and he is called upon to address the community; tell the community about the
problems, and you know, I'll tell you publicly now and the people publicly what
I told you in private. I know you said, well if he has to speak we have got a
speech writer, and that's true. Extemporaneous speaking doesn't mean that you
haven't prepared yourself, but instantaneous speaking means that you didn't pre-
pare yourself, and you speak from the ----and you get it together. That's what
the Police Department is like. The advantage of a systematized way of liberal
arts training of a kind; whatever you all call that, is that the man devalops
reasoning and thinking; not that he doesn't do it in the Police Department, but
he has to have a broad base. I. said that then and I am going to live with it.
The difference between a trained man and an untrained man is that the trained
man has only one way, but an untrained man has perhaps only one way; a trained man
has some alternate ways. If this didn't work maybe something else would work,
or if he went to the wall and butted his head and found out that didn't work,
hopefully he would find sense enough to take the arm and see if the arm will
work or take the leg and see if the leg will work. Now, all we have been
talking about here was excellency; all we have been talking about was qualifications,
and I want to say to the people of this community --I guess television is carrying
it --that I am dist,ubed and troubled that in 1974 that was not a requirement.
I shall be watching with particularity the man that you choose as a chief, and I
shall ask unequivocally right out here in the meeting how much training he has
had. I think we are going to have that. Then there is another observation.
You can't tell me in this day and time that I must tell my young people, stay in
school; go to school, and then when we get ready to choose a chief we don't keep
that in mind. Certainly you didn't put it on paper that way. That troubles me,
because the men who were the rank and file man in the ranks there doesn't have
anything to look forward to;doesn't have anything to look up to. Then let me men
mention one other thing that is very tender. The one advantage of God fearing
people that live a long time is that you can always say, Lord, I remember the
past, and hopefully the future may be better. The usual thing when you want to
lock Black folk out; meaning you don't want Black folk in there, man you increase
the qualifications, you know. You say,well he or she doesn't have a degree, or
he or she doesn't meet the qualifications: I would hope that the kind of a man
you are going to get for us is the kind of a man who is sensitive --I can't do
anything about these men who are here now and those presently on there, but I
hope that the kind of a man we are going to get for '74, because you don't know
how long he is going to be here, that he would be sensitive to having not only
himself improved, but that he would improve the lot of the 750 men that you
presently have, and hopefully you will have some more. Further, some of the
people who presented some of the matters before us were professors. You realize
that? Mr. Andrews, I hope --nobody else ever discussed this with me --but I hppe
what I said weighs heavily on your heart, because if we are going to talk about
saving the City; if we are going to talk about the calibre of men we are going
to get, we have got to talk about his educational qualifications, too. Let me
ad this final comment. Ilove all of these men, and I hope they love me, but I
don't run a popularity contest. I make my decisions on what I think to be fair,
right and just. If you can explain to the people of this City why you personally --
let me put it this way; I am sure you personally left it out, because you are a
smart man I think, and you must have had a reason. Let me tell you what somebody
said to me when I mentioned it. They said, well, that would have eliminated a
JG
DEC 191974
lot of people. I said, damn right, just like that. I want a lot of people
eliminated, because I want the best. That's right; and if you are not the
best I don't need you, and I want you to know this. I have been the hardest
fighter --let me take that back --I have been consistently advocating in-house
hiring. I am at that point right now. I haven't changed. I would have been
far more comfortable if you had said these men must have finished high school
and have done X number of work at the Junior Collect. I would have been far more
comfortable with that. I served on the Governor's Committee to restructure the
whole educational system of the State of Florida, and two things that were eminent
in our minds; that education would always be accessible to people, readily s•ces-
sible, and the second thing was that it would be cheap. That is really the Hems -
of the community college, and it looks to me that in the coming years you are going
to have to be a graduate of the community college with an associate degree to be
a maid. Should we ask any less in our chief that we are looking for? I can't
choose him for you. The charter says that you do the choosing, but I want to tall
you, my brother, I am going to be looking with an awful scrutinizing eye, and I
hope an understanding heart, when you bring me, because I certainly am going to
ask the question. And you could help me. Don't have me ask it, just put it on
paper and pass it to me, Just like you did the qualifications that I have in my
book. I don't always keep your memorandums, but I have this one with me, and I
thought I had better put that on the table so that you could kind of react to
what this man said, and to what some of the others said.; and I hopebefore you
make that choice that you will search your heart and conscience and tell me what
I think you are going to tell me and what you told me in private.
Mr. Andrews: I certainly gave a lot of credence to the educational qualifica-
tions. The matter of obtaining degrees in the criminal justice system or in police
management is a newer type of degree being offered throughout the United States.
It is not one that is as common as those you will find in engineering, architectural
positions, attorney professions. I had to weigh whether I would establish very
clearly the qualifications beforehand, or depend upon reviewing tose qualifications
in so far as education are concerned in terms of professionalism. And professional-
ism constitutes a little bit more than just education. Also I felt that I needed
to permit the International Association of Chiefs of Police to assist the City --
and this is the part that I said before in in qualification; the only qualification
that I place a limitation on this process or the selection, and that is that they
would assist the City in reviewing all the applications to come up with, hopefully,
at least six professionally equipped individuals. They may not, And then if they
do not we have got a different matter to deal with. Because if they do not I am
going to stop looking within the department. I have said that publicly. I have
said that to you. I thought that we had an understanding when we were at the
Commission table here a couple of weeks ago when we discussed this matter and unless
I misunderstood the Commission that if there were six then we would make a choice
from one of those six.
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, Paul, for doing this, but whenever you make that
statement would you please add to it, not at the expense of excellence.
Mr. Andrews: Yes, sir.; that's understood.
Mayor Ferre: But it is not understood. Sometimes people forget, and I don't
want anybody accusing --and I happen to feel that if we can bring up from within
the department, I am all for that,but never ever at the expense of excellence.
And I think you always have to say that when we do these things we are not compro-
mising excellence; that this is as good as anybody else in the country.
Mr. Andrews: For more reasons than most cities would have to grapple with
this problem in terms of excellence, insofar as the selection of the chief, cer-
tainly those elements are here in Miami.
Mayor Ferre: I don't want somebody saying, yes, he is good, from Miami, but
you know, there are about ten people that were available for that job that you
didn't even interview who really could have been the best in the country, and I
don't want that kind of a statement ever made here by you, me or this city; and
whoever it is that is chosen I want that man to be equal to the best available; not
the best if he is not available, but the best available.
DEC 191974
The Commission recessed briefly and reconvened with all members present.
Mayor Ferre: Now we are going to get involved in item 5, which is training.
Is Lt. Neil Garfield here?
Lt. Garfield appeared and was sworn by the Clerk.
Mr. Silver: State your name and position with the City.
Lt. Garfield: Neil Garfield, Lieutenant of Police. I am the personnel
officer for the Miami Police Department.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir; I advise you that any information you give
in response to questions by the committee may be the subject of a disciplinary
proceeding by the Civil Service Board if such facts indicate a violation of the
Civil Service Rules. .
Mayor Ferre: Lt. Garfield, Vice -Mayor Plummer, who will be here in a moment,
made, I think, a very pertinent point a while ago. He said really where we
ought to begin is in the area of training. Now at the last time we were here to-
gether we got a little bit into the area of training ---
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, can I stop you, please. Out of all fairness and
everything to everyone concerned, before you go into another subject, I think we
should hear --we have asked the questions, and maybe accusations, from Captain
Pritchard who was not given the opportunity to respond, and I think he should
have the opportunity to do such.
Mayor Ferre: Lieutenant, would you please sit down, and Captain, I apologize
to you. It completely slipped my mind. It wasn't intentional. Go ahead. You
were starting to say something before we got off on another subject, so I apologize;
you are right, and you were starting to tell some things about the functions as you
see them.
Captain Pritchard: I did want to respond to a question that was addressed
to me, but first I'd like to raise the same issue that was raised earlier that
I, Captain Ben Pritchard, am also a contender for the Chief of Police. I submitted
a resume; I was ii,..erviewed by the I1iCP, and until such time as I am eliminated I
am also a contender for that,ppsition. In response to the question, Mayor,of
what we are doing in this area of services, I not only addressed the question of
arming the technicians. I addressed all of the questions that have been addressed
to me, and the answers are contained in this document, and if I just take two
minutes to give you my recommendations: In July I did recommend in writing that
the identification technicians be sworn in and that they be armed. I also re-
quested that the Civil Service Boarc conduct audits in both the job classifications
and the complaints of pay.
Mayor Ferre: I didn't hear that. Does the Civil Service Board conduct what?
Captain Pritchard: Audits, which is required under our system, which I don't
have the authority, or the Police Department doesn't have the authority to make
changes in this area except through this process, and I have received notification
that the Civil Service Board has received these requests and that they are going
to proceed in conducting these audits; and I also asked that the training unit in-
clude the technical training of identification technicians, and future training
programs, and also asked that they be included in the training at the Criminal
Justice Institute, which at this time we have sent one man to its training, and
these recommendations I made by way of a reasonable objective in this area, as
something that I would hope we would be able to accomplish some meaningful objec-
tive.. I am sure that they will not address each and every detail of the
identification technicians complaint, but I established these recommendations
back in July as a reasonable objective that we could achieve.
Mayor Ferre: What has happened to your recommendations?
DEC 191974
Captain Pritchard: The recommendations for the Civil Service Board audit,
I have been notified by telephone by a representative of the Board that they have
received this and that they intend to conduct these audits as soon as possible.
By way of training, We have been able to get one man into the Criminal Justice
Institute, which is located at the North Dade Junior College Campus. As far
as arming the technicians we have not been successful in makitg a request that
would result in the arming of the technicians. So with that I'll conclude.
Mayor Ferre: If there is anything else you want'to add, or that you w•-tt
to expand on; and we will in the future permit and have Chief Fox back to r -pond,
if there is any area that --he rebuts anything that you say, or wants to chai_mge
anything that you said, we will certainly give you the opportunity to respond
in any way you may want.
Mr. Plummer: Let me make one point, if i may, because I somewhat concur
with the thinking of Mr. Reboso of, I guess, the terminology public hearings.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I am going to clarify that in a little while.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager, I just said that I somewhat concur with Mr. Reboso
about these hearings, or as is more commonly referred to here of hanging out the
dirty linens.to dry. Would it be possible, or would the charter prohibit it, or
would you tolerate it, that all of these men, such as Captain Pritchard, such as
Kenny Fox, anyone else who had some information which they feel would be pertinent
for this Commission to know, that they write such a report in writing, with a
copy going to you and to us so that we maybe don't have to go back into public
hearings, but that we can get the benefits of their thoughts through the dialogue
of a written report? Would you have any problem with that, Mr. Andrews?
Mr. Andrews: I would have no problem if the sent those to me and I sent
them to you in turn.
Mr. Plummer: All right, sir, but I'll lay it on the line what I am getting
at: unaudited, unaltered.
Mr. Andrews: It would be foolish for me to object to such a process. If I
were to object to it you could turn right around and do it anyway.
Mr. Plummer: dell, I'm trying to think of a way, because I concur with the
thinking of my fellow Commissioner.
Mayor Ferre: I am going, to join in this thinking --and I was going to do
this later on, but I guess since you brought up the subject we may as well do it
now. Here is what I, as Chairman, am going to rule on this subject: For these
series of hearings this is the last one. I recognize the danger that this
has as far as the selection process of the chief. I accept what you said at face
value, and Ithink that it is true; you are going to make an objective evaluation
regardless of what has or hasn't come out. I recognize what Father Gibson said,
and I share with him to a great degree the marjority of what he has said, and I
think you recognize what that means. Now, I happen to think that the importance
of having a chief at the helm quickly. overrides.anything else, and that in no
way will preclude the opportunity for Assistant Chief Fox to come back and address
this Commission in any way he wants to at any time he wants. So hre is the way
I think we are going to leave all of this. At the end of this hearing, within
the next month, Mr. Andrews, and I would like the tapes, or at least the trans-
cripts done, and we really don't need all the transcripts, but generalized so we
can get into the specifics, and I am going to formulate, personally, I am going
to spend some time with my staff in going over all the pertinent questions that I
think came out of these hearings, and I am going to address to you a memorandum
with all of the pertinent facts, which I am sure you are aware of in your
addressing at this time. Then after that memorandum has been sent to you and
after you have had time to respond to the series of questions, and after the
Chief has been appointed, and perhaps been at the helm for a few weeks or a
month, or what have you, then perhaps we can have a re -hearing in which Assistant
Chief Fox can then, after all the studies have been made, address each point
point by point. I think that is the most sensible way of doing this, and that
happens to be my opinion after having heard all the different arguments and
different opinions, and that's how I am going to rule as Chariman of this Board
at this time.
DEC 191974
Reverend Gibson: I have no choice but to go along with the ruling, but
you know --
Mayor Ferre: You can object.
Reverend Gibson: No, I am not objeting. I just want to point out that
if giving the Police Department a black eye --I am talking about if we have in
these hearings, and the other side is not heard -
Mayor Ferre: They will be heard is what I am saying.
Reverend Gibson: Well, but
Mayor Ferre: I am not arguing the point as to whether o% not they should
be heard. I completely agree, and I think we should have a full-fledged day
or days hearings on all these points, but what I am saying is that we have now
gone through a serios investigation. Let's recompile what has been brought out
so that we can have all that in writing; give Assistant Chief Fox the opportunity
to gather his information; havea new chief appointed, and come back and hear the
other side of it. I am perfectly willing to do that.
Reverend Gibson: Well, then, let me respond, because I have to deal with
when you get appointed or when you don't get appointed, or when you get elected
bishop or you don't get elected; when you get called to the rectory to be the
rector or not. Let me tell you something, Chief Fox. If I were you and that
happened to me I'll tell you what I think, if I were looking at you as, or if I
were Fox and you were Gibson and you said to me, or you didn't say to the that I
was a fool, I would wonder why. AT that point if the decision is made, you know,
if the chief is there, let the chief bear the ----from now on in. It is his
baby, not yours. .You are an assistant. Let him pick up the ball,unless you be
given the same opportunity prior to. Then the book is closed and than all you have
to do is; he has heard what was said and let him decide how he is going to get out
of it.
Mayor Ferre: I read you very loud and clear and I think you make a very valid
point. My problem is that I think the more pressing matter is the appointment of
a police chief, because we have got to get on with having a boss. This is a para-
military operation and it needs a heard. It needs a helmsman, and we have got to
get on with it; whoever it is going to be. Whether it is the Acting Chief, or a
Major or a Captai;., or whoever is going to get appointed, let's get on with the
appointment so that we have a boss and then we can proceed with all these things.
Reverend Gibson: I am going to agree with you, Mr. Mayor, but let me get on
with this other euphemistic thing in jest. Man, if a country as big as this could
wait all these months and not have a vice president, I hope we could wait a little
while for a chief. I am not arguing now against getting a chief. I am just trying
to say that, you know, man, I think the Vice President is more important than the
chief.
Mayor Ferre: Not to Miami he is not.
Reverend Gibson: To it may not be. There may be value judgment, and I under-
stand what value judgment is all about, but I would think ---
Mr. Plummer: Father, we can do without a vice president, but we didn't do for
one minute without a president, the head of the organization.
Reverend Gibson: I hope you aren't trying to tell me, J. L., that this
Police Department is in such bad shape that the Manager, who literally issues
orderslanyway; that he couldn't take that same Acting Chief he has and run this
department. I hope you aren't telling me that. If that's what you are telling
me, then we are in real bad shape.
Mayor Ferre: Well, you said it yourself; that we are in real bad shape.
Reverend Gibson: I want to agree that we are in bad shape, but I want you
to know how I am agreeing on it.
5u DEC 191974
Mr. Plummer: The thing that disturbs me the most, Father, is when I read
the article which said that tite Acting Chief will not be making any major deci-
sions. Major decisions are long overdue, and the sooner that man is put in
the position, and starts making those decisions, because that is the ouly way we
are going to find whether that man is a good man or not, to sooner the better.
Mrs. Gordon: Schedule three meetings in the early part of January.
Mayor Perre: No, Ma'am, I as chairman will not call three meetings in the
early part of January. I will call these three meetings after two things in 'e
been done. One, all of these matters have been put in a memorandum form wit. a
series of questions which I promise to do by the first week of January; and two,
after a Police Chief has been appointed. After that is done we will call for
another hearing and give Mr. Fox and anybody else who wants to talk all the
opportunity to rebut the points.
Captain Pritchard: Mr. Mayor, I just had one point that I missed, and I
think it is a very important one, and I am trying to get an answer to it and I
haven;t been able to from any of the sources within the Police Department, in-
cluding Sergeant Sam Harris of training, or any of them, and very simply it is
this. In March of this year there was a course being conducted at St. Petersberg
Junior College in crime scene processing by the FBI. I checked with our training
unit and the funds were available, so I put in a request to send one of our
supervisors over to attend this two -week special course, and I was told that it
was all approved; everything was fine; they could make the plaits. Then come down
to about a week before he was due to go I double-checked on it and found out that
nobody bothered to send the funds over to pay the tuition for the course, so we
had to cancel him out. Then right after this there was another course at the
same junior collect, June 17th to 28th, an advanced latent fingerprint course,
and again I put in for one of the technicians to go to this particular course, and
again I was told that the funds were available and everything was approved all
the way down the line. I said, for God's sake, don't let happen again what
happened the last time. The same thing happened again. Again up at Broward Junior
College there was a course being conducted by the FBI on advanced fingerprinting.
Tuition was five dollars per man. I put in to send four people up there and just
use a City car to drive up and back each day to take this course. Again I was
told that this was approved and funds were available, and when it came right down
nobody bothered to send the tuition.
Mr. Musial: This is what I'd like to know; where is it bogging down? Who
isn't sending the tuition? I asked what happened; they said they don't know.
Mayor Ferre: Who approved it?
Mr. Musial: Right from the Chief ofPolice on down. It was in our budget,
and the whole schmeer, and the funds just never get sent, and the people, right
down to the last minute we find that nobody bothered to send the funds to pay the
tuition so we can't send these people to the school.
Mayor Ferre: You know anything about this, Mr. Andrews?
Mr. Andrews: No; when I talked to Mr. Musial he was describing this area,
and that was just the other day, and I haven't had a chance --I don't think it is
within the Budget or Finance Department. I think it is internal in the Police
Department, but I haven't found the reasons why this was not accomplished.
Mayor Ferre: Chief, can you shed some light on this?
Mr. Andrews:
Mr. Musial:
the way down the
We will have to get the answer. I plan to trace this down.
It was approved through budget. In fact, it was approved all
line.
5'f
J
D E C 191974
Mayor Ferre: Chief Fox can come back and counter all he wants, but the
point is, you know, here is another example. Here is something which you ap-
proved, and you think it is important or you wouldn't have done it. And some-
how the system is not working; you follow me? The system isn't working because
it doesn't get done. Why?
Mrs. Gordon: Why wasn't the check issued? Do you write checks at the
Police Department, or do checks come out of the finance end of things?
Captain Pritchard: Out cf finance.
Mayor Ferre: I am not saying that it is the Police Department's fault. I
don't care whole fault it is. That's what, you know, a lot of people either
don't understand, or I think don't want to understand, is what I am saying.
Reverend Gibson: Since I am always on the other side, I want to join.
You know, it is incredible that people are asking to improve themselves; people
want to get in the mainstream of what people are doing, and then somebody --it
has got to be somebody-- is holding up the money. We ought to say to the
Manager, if he has got to take twenty-four hours to find ouc what happened, we
ought to ask him to do it, and ask it now. This is incredible; three times. I
hope you will report to us, Mr. Manager, at the next regular meeting what
happened, and whoever did it to ask them, please, don't do it no more.
Mrs. Gordon: And I'll bet it took place in this building.
Mayor Ferre: Now, you see; let me tell you. If that happens, let ;t happen,
Mr. Andrews. In my business, you know, if it happened up in the Daytona Division
and it was in the rock division, or what have you, I'd get the manager down here
and I'd find out why and I'd trace it right down to the --put :t right down as to
why these things are happening, because if it happens once, OK if it happens
twice, well, let's worry; if it happens three times and it happens more, then I
think you have got room for some kind of concern. Something isn't functioning
when things like this don't fall into place.
Lt. Garfield now appeared to testify.
Mayor Ferre: Lieutenant, last time we were beginning to get into the
problems of training. We touched on some areas, and there was a great deal of
concern on the part of the Commission. You have had a few weeks to think about
it since then. Do you want to amplify --or let me just start off by asking you
the hard question. Are we getting the best training now? If not, why not, and
how can it be improved?
Lt. Garfield: I think there is room for a lot of improvement.
Mayor Ferre: Start off by telling me are we getting the best training
that you think that the dollars that we pay for can buy?
Lt. Garfield: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: OK; there is room for improvement. How would you recommend
that we go about doing that?
Lt. Garfield: After the last meeting where I stated my personal opinion I
took it upon myself to contact the training unit and had several meetings with
them because they are directly involved with the institute, and we came up with
what we through our own personal knowledge, through sticking with all the recruits
that had graduated, found out what we feel are major problems. I have Sergeant
Ross here. I'd like for him to come up.
Sergeant John Ross appeared and was sworn by the Clerk.
Lt. Garfield: I'll basically go over an outline that we came up with as
problems, and Sgt. Ross is here and can come in on all your pertinent material
that backs it up.
58
DEC 191974
Mr. Plummer: All the stuff that you are going to explain to us now; do
you recommend that we stay with the training that is being provided at the
present time, or that we go back to our own training?
Lt. Garfield: That's a difficult question to answer. I think if they
can improve themselves and come up to what we want we can stay with them, and
if they can't do that then I would suggest that we go back to our own.
Mr. Plummer: Go ahead.
Lt. Garfield: The Institute of Criminal Justice is broken into two modules,
the first one is eleven weeks, which takes care of the minimum training require-
ments by the Police Standards BoLrd, and the second one is advanced police re-
cruit training, which takes thirteen weeks. The City of Miami, Dade County,
Hialeah, Miami Beach and one other department is involved in the entire program.
The smaller departments handle only the basic requirements as set forth by the
Police Standards. Therefore, all of the work that it; required by the Police
Standards is pushed right into the eleven weeks, and it is a rough process; you
have so much material to learn. The minimum standards is too compact. There is
too much to absorb in a short period of time, and the rest of the course doesn't
offer enough meaningful material. The reason for the second half being poor is
a lot of instructors don't show up and tey don't get proper instruction. Swimming
is another thing, which is one of our requirements, and it is not taught until
the second module, and then it is not actually being taught. If a person does
not swim they teach them drounproofing only. There are scheduling problems. The
County or the Institute places emphasis on the availability of the instructors
and not the quality of instruction. The Miami Police Department do not get
schedules. They have classes that run starting with the first Monday in every
month,and we will have people participating, and our training session does not
get any scheduling at all. We don't know where our people are going to be and
what they are doing. It is difficult for us to schedule not knowing what the
schedules are, as far as equipment. When they go to the range, they might let us
know at the last minute that they need so many rounds of ammunition. If they are
going to defensive driving, they let us know at the very last minute, and it is
very difficult for us to make arrangements to have vehicles up at the Institute
for them to take care of that defensive driving. Our Civil Service Rules and
Regulations require that all those in the academy are on probation and monthly
probation reports are needed. The academy up there has their own schedule and
it conflicts with ours and makes it difficult for us to adhere to our own civil
service rules. They have been told several times of this problem and so far nothing
has been done about it. We had recently a class cancelled; a class that was sup-
posed to start December 2nd, which was barely seventeen. They.let us know one
working day before the class was supposed to start that it was cancelled, which
left us with six people that we,had already signed in to start that class, and we
didn't feel it was proper to say, all right, the class is cancelled; go on out
on the street and come back in a month, so we absorbed this by placing them around
the station in other jobs, working in the complaint room, to help us out and help
them out; they won't go hungry during that time. But this was very wrong. We
should have been notified way in advance that this was going to happen, or they
should have gone ahead with it and held the class. The basic big complaint is
County domination. Out et the Institute two sergeants, one from the County and
one from Miami, and twelve police officers ; eight of them from the County, two
from Miami, one from Miami Beach and one from Hialeah. All our recruits are
critiqued after the class, and one of their big complaints is that it is County
dominated. They don't have very much association with the City. Most of the
instructions out there are done by County officers. The City participates very
little. On report writing, at times only County forms are used, and here our
people are out in the street filling out City of Miami forms. They should learn
how to fill out City forme; not County forms. Schedule changes. One instance
we had a class that had, it was Class 10A and 10B, which had five in one class
and ten in the other class scheduled for assignments at the station. We asked
the County several times to schedule both of them, being it was the same class,
to schedule than around the station at the same time where it would be convenient
for us to schedule them, and on two occasions we did contact them, and finally
they did it, but the reason they did it was because of the Public Safety Depart-
ment who work along with them. They ran into a problem. Our recruits claim that
man questions are answered in the context of public safety policy rather than our
own policy. Those are some of the problems we found. We made up some recommenda-
DEC 191974
tions. I would like for Sgt. Ross to get into that.
Reverend Gibson: What kind of an incentive do you give the men once they
join the force to further their education?
Lt. Garfield: We give them every incentive they can have. We try to work
schedules where they can both go to school and work. We have steady shifts
that take care of that. If a man goes to school at night, we put him on the day
shift. If a man goes to school during thl day we can put him on the night ''lift.
We try and further their education.
Reverend Gibson: Do you give them any bonus for improvin;- themselves? For
instance --you know what I am talking about?
Lt. Garfield: The bonus we give them is with education he can take the
sergeants examination at an earlier time, depending on the level of education
that he has attained. Also there is incentive from the State of Florida. If
a person has an associate degree in a police related field he is given fifty
dollars a month extra, and if he has a bachelors degree he is given eighty dollars
a month extra.
Reverend Gibson: How many men have taken advantage of the opportunity?
Lt. Garfield: Quite a few. I don't have the figures here.
Reverend Gibson: I'd like to know the specifics, please. Mr. Andrews, I
hope that my questions to him ought to be crystal clear to you what I am talking
about. If these men as the average policemen, will go and improve themselves
and they get fifty dollars a month more and eighty dollars a month more, I hope
my point is clear to the other members of this Commission.
Sgt. Ross appeared and was sworn by the Clerk.
Mr. Silver: You are advised, sir, that any information you give in answer
to the questions by this Committee may be the subject of a disciplinary proceed-
ing by the Civil Service Board if such facts indicate a violation of the Civil
Service Rules.
Sgt. Ross: I am John Ross and I am acting Commander of the Training Unit.
I think the biggest problem as far as our relationship with the Institute is the
design of the entire course. What they attempt to alas to place all the minimum
standard courses in eleven week period, which means that the subjects come mighty
fast and furious to a recruit. Then during the second module --they split it up
into two modules --call it the advance course, it is a very long thirteen weeks.
When I say long I mean that possibly there is not enough meat to be taught during
that thirteen weeks. In addition to that, most of your meaty subjects; the law,
patrol procedures, criminal investigation, the basic contents, the very base that
they are built on, is presented in suc a fast and furious fashion in the first
module that the recruits have a let -down in the second module. So I'd like to
read this, because we did make a report. On the course design we feel that the
model that is recommended for the training of the Miami Police recruits is based
on the principle of distributed learning; that is, where concepts about a par-
ticular subject are spread over enough time so the student can absorb and con-
template information. Subject matter throughout the day should be varied in
order for the student to maintain attention and interest. The basic law enforce-
ment course should be presented as one continuous program, not two modules.
Where a recruit is not certified as a police officer until graduation the re-
cruit should have a broad base in law spread over the first third of the program,
followed by patrol procedures and criminal investigation. Now the proficiency
skills, such as firearms, first aid, swimming, defensive tactics, etcetera, and
the human relations skills should be interspersed throughout the entire curriculum.
Tests should be given in every major area and averaged for the final grade. This
arrangement would necessitate separate classes to be offered for those depart-
ments that require the 320 hour minimum police standards course. The student
body can be accommodated by two long courses and one minimum standards course
every quarter, or any other combination. The Miami Police Department Training
Unit considers the implementation of this recommendation essential. We feel
like this is the crux of the problem there.
6t/
DEC 191974
Mayor Ferre: Now, that's --are you saying that you have identified the
problem, and that's the correction and the essential of it. Here is my
question now.. Do we have, Mr. Andrews, the authority to change the course,
and if we do, how do we go about changing it. That's what the City of Miami
Police Department wants. You see, here is where I a:ii going. Ogle --and I don't
have to have any special training in police work so that my common sense is
still working --the City of Miami Police Department is an independent body. Be-
cause of economy and hopefully efficiency, we tried to merge the training process
with other police departments. Two questions: Because we have given to so ebody
else the responsibility and the authority that does not imply that we have au -
dicated our rights and our responsibility. So tilt. question is, can we change
the course and can we say what we want for our policemen? And number two, I don't
think that academy should have the final say as to whether or not a cadet, or
whatever it is called, stays in that program. That's our decision; not theirs.
As I understand it, they are making those decisions.
Mr Andrews:The answer to both of your questions would be in the affirmative
with a qualification on the last part, ani that is, and this is something I am
not absolutely sure of; the department world have to help in this answer --and
that is if these adjustments were not mad! to our satis:action and if we chose
to withdraw from this process the educational, I'll call it institution that
we would set up, would it have to be qualified by the State to meet the minimum
standards for training, and would we have any difficulty in oltaining such cer-
tification That's the part we would have to look into.
Mayor Ferre: Would you look into it and give me specific answers to both
of those questions.
Reverend Gibson: I would hope we are not going to think about giving up, but
that we should have in-service training and have an added --if we have problems
peculiar to us --I am thinking about the mobility of these men. They may not want
to stay with us; they may want to go with the County. Well, that's part of the
game. If the County starts paying them better than we pay them, OK, but I would
hope that we would go to the position; we would voice our complaint that we can't
get them; they ought to be trained, and then we ought to do the other thing.
Remember, Mr. Lloyd, that you were talking about certain things that you were
addressing yourself to that they were not doing our best. I don't want the men
to leave here with the idea that they are coming back here --I am not talking
about the others; Iam talking about Theodore --I am not going to vote for you to
leave. I am going to say to you, you stay in there, and I am going to say t
our department, if theyaren't giving you as much as you need, then you better
get about the business, Mr. Andrews, to get the best for these men, to meet our
needs.
Mayor Ferre: Sergeant, you want to respond?
St. Ross: It's just a few things that the City Manger talked about; cer-
tification for us. TheMiami Police Department has that certification; and the
other one was ---
Mr. Andrews: The ability to remove ourselves from that process.
Sgt. Ross: I don't know about removing ourselves from the process, but the
difficulty would lie in getting instructors, as far as a quick solution. I
guess I should have prefaced any of my remarks by saying that I believe very
strongly in the institute concept, and I think that to institute out at the
junior college can be a very viable organization if it adjusts itself to meet
our needs.
Mayor Ferre: It has to, and we have to insist that they do.
Sgt. Ross: And the question I think you asked before is can we do anything
about getting them to adjust it, and the answer is that they work with an advisory
board that one of our department --well, it used to be Chief Garmire; now it is
Chief Watkins --is the representative from our department on that advisory board,
and suggestions would have to be made through that board.
61
DEC 191974
about pulling out, right?
Mayor Ferre: Chief, do you concur with some of these changes that are being
recommended? You do. Well, then, let's see what happens under the normal process
of this. All right; how about this question of removal. Can the academy remove
students without your acceptance of it? Suppose somebody arbitrarily there in the
academy sals, this guy goes. And you say, wait aminute, this man is going to make
a goodpolice officer and we would like to keep him.
Sgt Ross: The only Area we don't have a say-so in is scholastics, in the
first module. If they don't make a 75, then they are out.
Mayor Ferre: I understand that you can't tamper with.
Sgt. Ross: The other area is, I guess, personality traits, if you want to
call it that, and in those areas we do have the ability to respond. They make
recommendations to us; we within the section; that is the Resource Development
Section --and if we think it is a hot one we put it up to the Chief --consider
what the problems are; how bad, and they usuall go along with what we suggest.
It is not clearly spelled out in their procedures, just as in the second module
their scholastic standards aren't clearly spelled out. It is a working relation-
ship.
Mayor Ferre: Sergeant, are you satisfied that we can make these improvements;
within the system? In otherwords, what I am getting at---
Sgt. Ross: Yes, sir; When you say can we, I am a very positive thinker and
I think we can do anything we set our minds to, but we need the clout.
Mayor Ferre: Do we have the clout?
Sgt. Ross: Well, I think with this ac;ust body investigating some of
and bringing it to light I think maybe WE would have a little more clout
time, but in the past we have not been able to change many things that we
wrong, particularly this module design.
these things
at this
feel are
Mayor Ferre: Paul, I want you to listen to this, because this bothers me now.
He says in the past we haven't had the clout. Well, dog gone it, why haven't we?
Don't tell me it takes a Commission meeting and a public hearing to get the clout
to get some of these things done.
Mr. Andrews: He had better explain that, because this is the first I have
heard of this.
Sgt. Ross: That might very well be misunderstood. The institute, in my mind,
is a very.. political institution. They have to cater to many other departments
within the County, and unfortunately we are only one of tem; a large contributor,
yes, but we are only one of them, and they have to contend with the problems of
the large and the small; and that is probably why we don't have the clout, because
we didn't have the publicity; not the fact that our brass wasn'.t looking at it.
Mr. Plummer: Sergeant, what.you are trying to say is that we have just got
to threaten them that if you don't straighten it out we are going to pull out.
Isn't that what clout is in your estimation?
Sgt. Ross: That's a hot one. Again I can only go with my purpose. What
I want —yes, you are right.
Mr. Plummer: So we then put them on notice that we are very seriously thinking
Sgt. Ross: Yes, sir; but understand it is not just the
There are other departmental organizations that I guess have
Mr. Plummer: Well, they might be getting the same kind
Sgt. Ross: Yes, sir, I think they are.
staff of the institute.
as much clout as we do.
of treatment that we do.
DEC 191974
Mr. Andrews: May I ask the officer; if we can't achieve some of these
adjustments that you are talking about and concerned about, 'and the department
and the chief is, what do you recommend we do?
Sgt. Ross: I recommend that first we try to achieve adjustment in the system
and if we can't do it, then we withdraw. But again I want to make it very clear
that I am not suggesting that we withdraw. I think we should try and work within
the system.
Mayot Ferret Listen, you have got to 10 back there tomorrow. We undert and.
Sgt. Ross: I am like a little yellow dog nipping at their heels all the
time, so I don't worry about that part of it, but I do worry about the concept
and I do worry about the police training and what I think the advantages are at
the institute. I do have other recommendations here, if you want to go through
them.
Mayor Ferre: Are they in writing?
Sgt. Roas : Yea, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Could we have copies of them? Would you make those available
to us; unless you think it is pertinent to bring them out now.
Sgt. Roas: No; I think the most important things were brought out by Lt.
Garfield; county domination, our problem with coordnination, and the course de-
sign; and I think we have recommendations that we can work within that system to
try and improve it.
Mayor Ferre: All right. Sergeant Harris, is there anything that you want
to add?
Sgt. Sam Harris: Just one thing, Mr. Mayor. It is strictly a personal point
of view.(The Mayor noted that Sgt. Harris had been duly sworn by the Clerk earlier)
Mr. Silver: Your name, please?
Sgt. Harris: Samuel Harris.
Mr. Silver: And your position with the City?
Sgt. Harris: Sergeant assigned to training.
Mr. Silver: I will advise you that any information that you give in answer
to the questions by the City Commission may be the subject of a disciplinary pro-
ceeding by the Civil Service Board if such acts indicate a violation of the Civil
Service Rules. Please proceed, sir.
Sg.t Harris: I just want to make one comment, from a personal point of view.
I think a lot of the problems with regard to recruit training --I was assigned to
the institdte for a short period of time, and dealing specifically with the City
of Miami --again I want to emphasize this is my own personal opinion --is the fact
that our training unit has been reduced to an Acting Commander with the rank of
Sergeant, and by the man being what he is by rank --and it is not his fault be-
cause he is very capable --I think when Sergeant Rosa mentioned the lack of clout
I think this may have a lot to do with it. Part of my duty is to act as liaison
officer between the institute and theCity of Miami Police Department, and I know
everybody out there on a first name basis,but who am I when it comes right down to
it. I don't have the big hammer that I believe, in my own personal opinion, it
would take to make the changes that we recommend. When you compare Sergeant Roas
and myself to, let's say, someone equivalent to our Majors, a Captain, a Chief,
a Lieutenant and several Sergeants, and in most cases at every meeting the
Director himself from the Public Safety Department attends, ---
Mayor Ferre: Are you talking about Purdy? Director Purdy is there?
63 DEC 19197-•
Sgt. Harris: He comes quite often sir, right.
Mayor Ferre: Did Chief Garmire go to these things?
Sgt. Harris: On occasion, yes sir.
Mayor Ferre: So in other words we weren't fully represented then.
Sgt. Harris: Not in all cases, no sir.
Mayor Ferre: But most of the time.
Sgt. Harris: Well, yes, OK.
Mayor Ferre: Well, now, let's not mince words. Either he was or he
wasn't. I can get from the laughter over here that he doesn't---
Sgt. Harris: What I meant about the people coming to the institute, and so
forth, and having their influence felt, I meant for formal meetings, and the
like. I said earlier I was assigned out there for a period of time, and officers
of high rank from the Public Safety Department would drop in on occasion unannounced,
and in my personal opinion again I believe this has a great impact.
Mayor Ferre: I am asking you that a'.ain; and don't mince words, now. Tell
it like it is. Are you telling me that, ;es or no, is the brass --and I am
talking specifically about the chief, and so on --are they showing the same
interest in this process as Purdy and his brass; yes or no?
Sgt. Harris: No.
Mr. Plummer: Why?
Sgt. Harris: I don't know. I am a Sergeant, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Don't make any comments, now. They speak for themselves.
Sgt. Harris: I just wanted to clarify it on the point --the original point
was about our lack of clout it the training unit; the fact that we have a sergeant
in charge of the training is what I initially wanted to get across compared to a
individual equivalent to the rank of Major from the Safety Department, and I think
it does have a lot of impact.
Mr. Plummer: Let's give him a little clout. If I don't hear by the first
of March from my City Manager in the form of a memo thatthese problems have been
one hundred per cent. fully ironed out to the satisfaction of the administration,
on March the 2nd I am making a motion to withdraw from that school and instigate
our own again.
Mayor Ferre: And I am going to second the motion.
Mr. Plummer: You wanted clout.. You've got it.
Reverend Gibson: And I am serving notice now; I am not going to be voting
for it. It is a step backward, and we need to make things move in the right
direction in this community. One thing I doscovered. Money makes a lot of
people get religion.
Mr. Reboso: Let me ask a question of the City Attorney. Is it possible to
have a legal opinion on these minimum standards for use by the City Manger by
tomorrow or next monday?
Mr. Lloyd: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: The question was, can he have a legal opinion on I.D. techni-
cians by tomorrow or Monday, and the answer was yes.
64 DEC 191974
Mayor Ferre: All right, ladies and gentlemen, it is almost five o'clock,
and I as afraid We are really not going to get into report processing, or item
6 or 7, or 8. Is Officer Ed Wright here?
Mr. Plummer: No.
Mayor Ferre: Is Mr. Jack Lewis here?
No response.
Mayor Ferre: These are the two people that had requested to be heard on
specific items. This is the third time that we haveinformed them. When we
have the next hearing after what we define, would you make a note that they
should be informed again, should they, for the third time, want to appear.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I would only ask that, is Lt. Richard Sterns here?
Unidentified person: Yes, he :Is.
Mr. Plummer: I would only ask that he take a brief minute so that the public
can be informed as to the new procedures that they are using for the processing
of prisoners, and I assume it's my terminology of prisoner control, but because I
think of the problems that were brought out here --and maybe I am trying to say
something that doesn't exist --but there is a new policy now that a person who is
taken and booked for an offense is not taken and hidden away, and I'd like for you
to tell, through the media, what process you are using.
Lt. Richard Sterns appeared and was sworn by the Clerk.
Mr. Silver: Please state your name and your position with the City of Miami.
Lt. Sterns: Richard J. Sterns, Lieutenant, Miami Police Department.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir; I will advise you that any information you give
in answer to the questions by the committee may be the subject of a disciplinary
proceeding by the Civil Service Board if such facts indicate a violation of the
Civil Service Rules. ,.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Lieutenant.
Lt. Sterns: Well, the problem was that when someone call:d the Miami Police
Department to gry and get hold of an individual who had been arrested and had
not reached the County Jail they couldn't find out any information. Since that
time we have instituted a program where we have a number'7004, which you can call,
or if you call information or the complaint desk they will refer you to this
number and they will give you the information.
Mayor Ferre: Good. Now, some people have asked what will these hearings
do and what will they accomplish. Well, here is a specific thing. Here is
something that was the case of these two brothers who were ---------, as you
recall; and a lot of people misunderstood, including Officer Wright. I wasn't
judging whether officer Wright did the right thing or the wrong thing. The
only thing we brought that matter up for was that these two men were --the process
took five hours before their mother and one wife could find out --they were two
black men; they lived in Opa Locka, and their mother and family were in great
fear as to what had happened to these two brothers, because for five hours they
didn't know where they were; they couldn't find them; the Police Department
didn't know; Jackson Memorial Hospital didn't know; the Metro Jail didn't know,
and these people actually lived in dread for five hours; so here is a positive
case of one little thing, which may be little to me, but I'll tell you to that
wife it isn't so little, you know, when they want to find out what has happened
to the husband or son; whether he is in jail or what have you; so I am glad it
has been corrected, Lieutenant, and I congratulate you for it. Is there anything
else you want to discuss, or get into? All right, thank you for being here.
Are there any questions? If not we are going to take a five minute break, and
then we are going to go into special session to consider this matter of Water
and Sewers.
The hearing was adjourned at 5:40 o'clock P.M.
H. D. SOUTHERN
CITY CLERIC
�;� DEC 191974