HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1974-11-27 MinutesMINUTES OF CITY OP MIAMI COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
(MEM.SERS OF THE MIAMI CITY COMMISSION)
CONVENED FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE
INVESTIGATION
OF
CITY OF MIAMI POLICE DEPARTMENT
MEETING:
NOV 27 i974 #
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CM* CLERK
H. D. SOUTHERN
CITY CLERK
RALPH G. ONGIE
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
MIAMI CITY COMMISSION
SITTING AS A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE TO IN-
VESTIGATE THE CITY OF MIAMI POLICE DEPARTMENT
On the 27th day of November, 1974, the City Commission of
Miami, Florida, met at its regular meeting place at City Hall
in said city sitting as a Committee of the Whole to investigate
matters pertaining to the morale, efficiency and performance of
the Miami Police Department, which investigation was continued
at the meeting of November 6, 1974, to this date. The meeting
was called to order at 9:10 o'clock A.M. with all members of the
Commission present.
Mayor Ferre: We are gathered here today on a special hearing
of the Police Department. I passed out yesterday evening a tenta-
tive agenda for the hearing. I would hope we would finish by five
o'clock this afternoon, depending on how quickly this testimony
runs. It might be sooner. I passed out a statement which I
wrote --and I think you have all received it. I'll read it to
you. It's just a statement of how I see this hearing today.
(Reading): During the last City Commission hearing held on the
Miami Police Department on November 6th we concentrated on the
areas of excessive force used by the members of the Police
Department. The purpose was not to reveal any new information or
to prove that there is police brutality in the Miami Police
Department. It was rather to probe into how excessive force is
dealt with in the Miami Police Department. It is true that new
information was brought out, and the citizens of the City of Miami
were made aware that there is police brutality, but the new facts
are insignificant in comparison to the we have not touched.
That is not to imply that Miami is excessive in the use of force
or unique in police brutality. In proportion we are relatively
low in these incidents in comparison to other governmental areas
our size, and in proportion to the over thirty thousand arrest
made last year by the Miami Police Department. I have never
spoken out publicly about The police without stressing my belief
that the majority of the police.department are decent, sincere,
well -motivated, courageous public servants. Again my intention
has always been to point out; one, that we do have problems in
the department; two, that there is either an intentional or a
subconscious attempt to cover up some of these problems. At
best I must conclude that the system now is use is not propitious
to either swift justice, nor objective and conducive to equal
application of regulations within the department. This simple,
but in my opinion devastating fact, speaks to the basic thread of
efficiency, and therefore the performance of the Miami Police
Department. Chief Garmire is now gone, and is no longer a bone
of contention in this situation. We are in the midst of negotiat-
ing one more study, which I have called now the study of studies.
This study will be in addition to the Stanford Research Institute,
MITRE Corporation, Booz-Allen Corporation, Rand Corporation. L.E.A.A.,
the Jacobs Company, Inc., the Police Foundation, F.I.U., University
of Miami, Sir John Waldron of Scotland Yard, and other reports I
may not be aware of. I understand that in the past ten years we
have had in excess of two hundred studies and reports, internally
and externally, in the Miami Police Deaprtment. Also, they entail
an imposing multitude of warnings and special recommendations, most
of which, in my opinion, have not been adhered to. The Jacobs re-
port of August, 1972, on page 20, section B states, and I quote:
in speaking of the Miami Police Department, people interviewed, I
quote: seldom was the level of morale high enough for effective
police work. Two grand juries have stated the same. Sir John
Waldron of Scotland Yard has reaffirmed this problem. The Channel
10 survey conducted this year confirmed that feeling and yet there
are some who still want to cover the sky with their hands.
1
NOV 2 71974
Mayor Ferre (Continuing): Ladies and gentlemen, the City of
Miami Police Department has problems. We cannot hide them anymore.
We trust face the facts with honesty and courage. We live in a
confused world where the economy is sliding down. The Chairman
of the Joint Chief of Staff makes anti-Semitic remarks, which at
this state of world history certainly helps ignite the fires of
dissention. At My Lai, as many as 400 civilian Vietnamese were
massacred. There werb thirty men involved in the Army cover-up.
Four were brought to trial and one convicted and a3 we have nosy
read, Lt. Calley has been released. There are many sides to My Lai,
and I for one don't feel Lt. Calley should stand the punishment
alone for the many involved. But no one denies that: (1) there
was a massacre at My Lai; (2) there was a massive cover-up; (3)
that justice was not done. The righteousness of a nation that
tried and condemned other at Nuremberg for similar acts must look
down in silent, self-reproach and uncertainty. We live in a world
where we sometimes don't know what to believe. The Atomic Energy
Commission makes statements about safety of nuclear plants based
on studies by Dr. N. Rassmusen of M.I.T. subsequently other
professors at M.I.T, Professor Kendall, Dr. Kamins, of the Rand
Corporation and others, lashed out at the Atomic Energy Commission
for misleading and incomplete information. Whom do we believe?
The President gathers in the White House all the economic brains
for a summit meeting of economists. Every contradictory statement
that economists could make were made at that conference. For
those who said "move to the left" there were an equal number who
said "move to the right". How, then, do we as citizens and public
officials judge?
As a businessman I tend to simplify. I judge by previous ex-
perience and results. Previous experience, including a dozen
studies, would indicate conclusively that the Miami Police Depart-
ment has problems, notwithstanding what a self-serving professor
at F.I.U., or editorial writers sitting in dark rooms without
sunshine would have us believe. The results are evident. My
objections to the Manager's report were not only based on the
omissions and failure to recognize the important underlying issues
in the Miami Police Department, but also the neglect to analyze
the results. If you were to study in the business world, for
example, a soap manufacturing operation, besides looking into the
manufacturing and distribution process, you would also look at th
end result; that is, How the customer will react to the product.
Will it sell?
On November 6th we looked at some final products of some Miami
Police Department problems. I think we conclusively saw that
problems do exist and that some of them are not being solved.
There are those who feel they have been slandered and are upset
because in their words, we "showed one side' of the picture".
That is true. We did show only one view. I stated so in the
beginning. The purpose in bringing out a few cases was not to
indict, prosecute, try and sentence those accused or involved.
That is done by the courts, The State Attorney and others. My
only intention in contrasting the cook and dixon cases was to point
out problems arising from different application of regulations.
In a paramilitary operation where there is no discipline there
cannot be any spirit de corps or morale. In the Kite brothers case,
as I pointed out, we were going to see one side of the picture.
Officer Wright is upset about this injustice and we plan to give
him the opportunity to tell his story. But the point was not the
incident itself. That is for somebody else to conclude right or
wrong. The point was to show that a citizen can be arrested and
his family not know where he is for over four hours. That is
certainly not encouraging to public confidence. Many such
points were made on November 6th.
Today you will have the opportunity to hear from members of
the Miami Police Department; from present, past and prospective
officers. I hope we will learn how records are kept, how the I.D.
Section functions; how communications aid dispatch function;
what we are doing to alleviate the Civil Rights problems we have,
since we are under a federal mandate to do so; how the LEAA/Tri-
Cultural grant was handled and its function. These are some of
the areas we will dwell on in search of problems.
The Cook and.Dixon case will not be discussed today, but I
hope :in the future we can address that specific area, especially
internal secutiry in the Miami Police Department.
There is a feature article in the November issue of Fire
Engineering entitled, "Emergency Medical Care in Miami Today".
It points out the excellent first class service rendered by the
Fire Department. Why is it that the Miami Fire Department is
classified as one of the two best major fire departments in the
country, that we are continually recognized by thla International
Fire Chiefs Association and other Boards for our excellence
that people come from all over the world to see our department
and use it as a model? In short, our fire department has recog-
nized excellence. Today we hope to probe the difference between
the approach of the fire department and the police department in
recruiting of minorities. The contrast, I'm sure, will make a
point, and perhaps show us the way to an excellent police de-
partment. That is the key word - "excellence". After truth,
we seek justice - all in the pursuit of excellence. That is
what the taxpayer pays for. That is what the citizens of Miami
deserve.
Again, in closing, let me reiterate that I am not out to
make waves, create problems, pressures, fire anyone, get public
recognition, or disrupt the system. My purpose is to bring out
existing problems. This is not a general survey of police work.
It does not recount the many brilliant investigations by detec-
tives, the acts of heriosm by plainclothesmen in trying to
decoy muggers, that were contemporary with the abuses that we
have highlighted. If it is not a "balanced" account, it was
never intended to be one. This investigation is directed to
finding out what is wrong, and the reasons for what is wrong,
so that we may boldly take steps to correct a decaying crime
situation.
The Crime Commission of Greater Miami, in a report which some
of you were able to attend, stated that in the past years the
Greater Miami area has never been below the six highest in
crime rate in the nation for the past ten years. In 1973, we
were second; in 1972 we were sixth; in '71 we were second; in
'70 we were first. We are talking about crime; we are talking
about the rights of citizens to live in their community in their
pursuit of peace and happiness, and this is what this investiga-
tion is all about. By recognizing our problems, and by correct-
ing them, we may --and I hope we will --attain a quality Miami
Police Department dedicated to excellence. That's what we all
want, and I think it's time for us to continue on the job and
get it done.
Mr. Reboso: I think at the last police hearing on November
6th you came across very clear, Mr. Mayor, in showing the public
that a problem exists in the Miami Police Department; no doubt
about it. I am confident that at the end of today's meeting
the rest of the people who are not aware of those problems will
be more aware. But at the same time I would like to see and
explain to the people that the sooner we end these police
hearings it will be for the benefit of this community. As I
said before, you came across strong and clear, and I hope at the
end of today's meeting it will be much clearer. On the other
hand, it worries me that if this keeps going it will become at
one point a Roman circus. As you stated a few minutes ago, any
major department in this country that has this type of investi-
gation is going to have a lot of people come to complain. I
would further say that even in private enterprise, if we decide
to investigate that, we are going to have all sorts of people
conning here to complain. So I hope, as you say here, on November
a
6th we looked at some final products of some Miami Police
Department problems. I think we conclusively saw that prob-
lems do exist and that some of them are not being solved. I
think the time has arrived, probably at the end of this meet-
ing; probably one more meeting, for you to decide, that we
show confidence in the Acting Chief of Police and the City
Manager, and give them the opportunity to go deep into these
problems that you have demonstrated exist right now in the
Miami Police Department.
Mr. Plummer: i don't have any statement to make, but I would
like to do some inquiring, if I can, of'some different people.
Mr. Manager, four weeks ago when you made your report to this
Commission you brought out what you thought were some of the
pressing problems in the Department. Needless to day, this
Commission saw differently than you saw. I think these hearings
have brought out different problems that do exist. For the
record at this tine I would like to ask you; at that time you
brought out about the hats was a problem, the ammunition was a
problem, and I think more importantly in an area which I will
get into later in the day, the general orders were a problem.
I would like to ask you at this time, now that fo\ir weeks have
passed, what you have done, or the department has -done to address
these problems that you thought were problems of morale; hats
ammo and general orders.
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me I think out of courtesy we ought to
let everybody make his statement and then we can go to your
questions.
Mrs. Gordon: I think our Vice -Mayor has spoken very wisely
in the things that he has said this morning. I would say Amen
to many of them. I personally am sitting here today because this
is the desire of the Commission to have these hearings. It is
not my preference. I would prefer that this be concluded as
quickly as possible and the balance of the investigation be
placed in the hands of the professionals, and that we let them
handle this from that point on.
Mayor Ferre: I might just point out that we wouldn't be here
today if we were satisfied with the way the professional studies
had been made, and with the report that the Manager gave us a
few weeks ago, and we can't avoid making that statement. The
point simply is this --and you can look at several sides of it.
On the one hand we have, in my opinion, some excellent policemen
and some basically good human value within the police department.
There is no question that we have had problems within the police
department, and you can look at --on November the 6th we looked
at one side of it; we looked at excessive force; not to point
out that there was excessive force, but to see how it is being
handled within the department. Now, we have had a dozen reports
in the last two or three years. All of them, in one section or
another, come out with'basic conclusions. They repeat the same
things over and over again. We have had two grand juries making
the same statements. We seem to have a tendency not to want to
face up to this basic issue. Let's take just one side of it; the
civil rights laws that guide this country. When Chief Garmire
came here shortly after a 1968 problem in the ghetto area there
was a big move, something called operation badge, to get minority
recruitment. I don't have the specific figures, but when Chief
Garmire arrived here there were 85 black policemen. We now have
80; five and a half years later; hundreds of thousands of dollars
spent; all kinds of efforts made. Now it took the courage of the
black policemen in the City of Miami to go to court and force us
under federal mandate to change that situation. A year and a
month has gone by. We have less policemen today than we had a
year and one month ago, less black policemen. Now I know 'we
4
are addressing the problem and I know we have five years under
the federal mandate to solve the problem, but in the meantime I
really think it is incumbent upon this Commission and this City
to address ourselves to the basic federal mandate. I would like
to point out that we get into areas of confusion as to exactly
what that federal mandate is --and let me get a copy of the --
excuse me for a moment --I just want to read a section of the
United States District Court Southern District of Florida Consent
Decree in the Franklin -Cohen Case, which is the case that I am
referring to. For example, with regard to the Latin Police De-
partment, there was some question as to whether or not the Latins
were included in that mandate. I want to read from Section 10.
The City shall take affirmative action to recruit and hire police
officers for the City of Miami Police Department from minority
ethnic groups. It did not say at any time, from the black groups,
or from Latins. It, says from minority ethnic groups, plural. The
City shall endeavor to hire sufficient police officers from min-
ority ethnic groups so that the percentage of police officers on
the police force from minority ethnic groups approximate the
percentage of the minority groups in the surrounding community.
Now that language just couldn't be clearer. We know, since that
mandate --and you can see it in the LEAA grant and some of the
reports that have come out of the LEAA grant hearings or meetings --
that in some of these hearings there have been discussions as to
exactly what that means. What it means is that if we are serving
a community that has 25% blacks it is not reasonable that we only
have 12% blacks in the Police Department. In a community where
we have close to 50% Latins it is not reasonable that we•only
have 6 or 7% of the force Latin officers. That doesn't mean that
we are going to go out and bounce all of the existing members of
the Police Department. What it should mean, in ml opinion, that
we are going to go out and address ourselves to that problem,
and we are under a federal mandate to do so. And yet if you look
at the percentage of the people that are being recruited it
doesn't follow the mandate, because the proportions are not in
any way comparable to the existing percentage of the population
as the federal mandate states. In the LEAA grant, which I have
no doubt about what that meant, because I was there in the very
beginning with Mr. Herb Rice and I discussed with him precisely
what the intent of the LEAA grant was. That has been completely
circumvented, and the results are completely contrary to the
original intent of the LEAA grant, as stated by Mr. Herb Rice, and
we are going to get into that in a little while. Now, these
things get complicated, and sometimes we all get confused by it,
but I do not think that we, as members of the City of Miami
Commission, the elected officials of the City of Miami, can under
these very difficult circumstances, can just say that we are not
going to address this; that we are going to let the administra-
tion handle it; let somebody else solve this problem for us. I
just don't see it that way. I think we have a direct responsi-
bility to be aware; to be informed; to participate, and I think
that we have an obligation to do so, because nobody can deny that
we are a high crime area. The statistics show it. Every year,
year after year for the'past ten years we have been upon the top
six. In the last four or five years we have been first; we have
been second; we have been sixth. So there is a crime problem.
We are talking about the citizens, the need for them to have
the services they pay for and be protected. We are talking about
the internal functions of the department. We are talking about
needs, about communications, about morale. We are talking about
the fact that we have had over 200 reports made in ten years;
5
NOV 271974
that we have had a dozen major reports made by outside firms
in the last few years, and yet we are still here with this prob...
lem.
Reverend Gibson: I hope that after we have spent, November
the 6th, and today, and hopefully today only, but if we have to
go over that's part of the arrangement, I hope that after we
have had the investigation and looking at the problems, that
two things will happen.' Otherwise we will have another hearing
and another report and but it on the shelf. Number one; that
you and I, meaning the Mayor and all the other members of the
Commission, who are elected officials who are charged with the
responsibility, and forgetting the other folk who are not so
situated, that we are going to demand positive, aggressive action.
Otherwise you are wasting my time and the taxpayer's money. The
second thing is, I hope we make ourselves crystal clear to the
employees of the City that we are dead serious. Mr. Manager,
you ought to call them together and tell them, baby, the buck
stops now; that we want action, and we want aggressive, positive,
visible action. I want to emphasize that, because I have some
real gut reaction to what is happening, and I just feel that if we
are not going to move ahead aggressively and positively and
forthrightly we are wasting our time, and I hope the public hears
what I am saying. There are people in this city who are not able
to read the handwriting on the wall. There are people in this
city who can interpret the writing. And then he can get with
it and understand that the prejudices and all those other
things may well now have to go; and if that is the case, baby,
we want them to go, because if you have a mandate you ought to
keep it or you don't need it; and the quicker there is a huddle,
Mr. Andrews, with all, the better. And I want to make one final
comment. The Chief of Police left here --and I am not crying, be-
cause he is a big boy --I hope he wouldn't have left in vain.
There is an awful lot in what I am saying. I hope the adminis-
tration and the Commission will read, mark, learnnand inwardly
digest that statement; that Garmire has gone and ze has left,
but I hope he wouldn't have left in vain. He may ,lave been the
sacrificial lamb, and I hope we don't put ourselves in the posi-
tion where there would be additional sacrificial lambs by just
getting the report, putting it on the shelf and leaving it there.
Mr. Mayor, I charge the Commission, as a member of the Commission,
to take hold not only of the Police Department, but any and all
facets of this city that have to do with the operation of this
city that is in contradiction to what the federal court order
said. We shouldn't have to go to court to be made to do what we
know is right. We ought to do it because it is morally right.
And I want to end with this: Governor Carter, the Governor of
Georgia, spoke yesterday morning, and you who were not there
missed an excellent opportunity to have been challenged to your
responsibilities. You know, when I was coming along we never
thought anything good could come out of Georgia. I say that
advisedly; but I want to tell you, Carter is a new breed, man --
and Mr. Mayor, you were there reading the New Testament Lesson;
the Mayor of the County was reading the Old Testament Lesson;
Carter challenged not only us, but this whole nation; and Mr.
Manager,you were there. You heard what Carter said, I hope,
Carter, too, would not have spoken in vain.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager, I don't think I need to repeat my
question that I proffered to you before, if you will address
youself to it.
Mr. Andrews: The questions that Commissioner Plummer has
raised have been attended to, and I can report positively on
some; others will require additional time. The Department has
v
NOV 271974
I III 11111011 WY14YY1. If/1101
come to a conclusion that tha new ammunition will be issued, and
as soon as orders can be placed --I understand that is in process,
and as soon as the new ammunition arrives it will be issued aci
cordingly.
Mr. Plummer: What about the hat situation?
Mr. Andrews: The Department and the staff are reviewing the
hat situation --and please I want to indicate for the record, and
for those who are here, so there is no misunderstanding, that my
report considered the bullets and the hats as important issues
affecting the morale of the individual police officer. It was
not intended, I am sure, by your singling those two items out,to
indicate that this is the extent of the Manager's report to the
City Commission about serious problems within the Department, be-
cause they do have serious problems. We are aware of it and
they are aware of it, and we are attempting to adjust ourselves.
But the hats, in a paramilitary organization are an important
matter to resolve. If we don't do this carefully --and as Acting
Chief Watkins stated, and very accurately so, that when we made
the decision on the hats, and if we relent in certain areas and
place requirements in others, in those areas where we do have
requirements we had better be prepared to carry them out, and
anyone in violation of even that simple area should be treated
properly and fairly, and receive reprimands if those regulations
aren't followed. In a military organization, in which the Police
Department is a civilian military organization, you have to have
rules and regulations and they must be carried out. So, they are
addressing this problem, and I don't have a specific answer for
you at this time, but I will.
•
Mr. Plummer: The important area, which I think has been
brought out very vividly, may be undue restraints in the general
orders. What attention has been given by you and the department
in revising the general orders?
Mr. Andrews: This review process has begun, but you have to
appreciate that this is a long and complex thing. Perhaps you
could call on some of the police personnel to describe to you
the efforts that went into preparing those general orders and
to bring them to state where they could be issued and published,
so that we would have some basic ground rules for the Police
Department operation. It would probably be easier now to go
back and make revisions than it was to bring that document into
being, and this review process has begun.
Mr. Plummer: I would like a copy of those orders for myself,
and I am sure every member of the Commission, so that we can read
those general orders. Mr. Manager, three weeks ago, when the
last meeting was held, the Mayor and this Commission asked you to
investigate three different areas, and if we are an investigating
body I think we should, in fact, have the report which we request-
ed of you; that is the report into the Taylor incident in the
Grove, the Professor Virsure, from F.I.U., and the Otis Davis
report.
Mayor Ferre: Not F.I.U.,South Dade.
Mr. Plummer: I stand corrected. At this time, three weeks
later, I have not seen nor heard any report. I ask now what the
status of that is.
7
ilIiIIIUilli dith .1111111a
Mr. Andrews: These matters are under investigation. I can,
if the Commission wishes, supply you rather quickly with an
interim report, but we are not ready to submit to the Commission
a final and conclusive ending to this matter so that we can in-
dicate a direction that will be taken. I can give you an interim
report.
Mr. Plummer: I would like such. Mr. Manager, I would like
for you, if you can, at this time to tell me and the rest of the
Commission what you in fact plan to implement starting Ftiday in
the downtown area.
Mr. Manager, I met yesterday with the gentleman from the Police
Foundation, from the Ford Group. I had every reason to believe
from this gentleman that the report which this Commission is going
to request; that he or whatever group is selected, it is not going
to be a short process. I think you will recall that the Commis-
sion had hoped to get this accomplished within a 90-day time
frame. I notice in the media, Mr. Manager, that you made the
statement that the appointed Acting Chief was not going to be
making any major decisions as Acting Chief. My concern now, sir,
turns to the action of this Commission, which through policy told
you not to name a chief until that investigation was finished.
I do not believe that this department, nor this city, can sit
back and wait for a person who is going to be able to make the
major changes that are needed, and I think upon that we all agree,
until this report is finished. So what I am really saying, I
believe, is that this Commission should reconsider its action of
policy of instructions to the Manager to hold up until the report
is finished, to name a permanent chief. I don't know that it is
in order today. If it is, I would move such.
Mayor Ferre: I would like
at least the lunch break, so
and at that time if you want
that.
to request that we not do that until
that we can go on with this thing,
to go into special session we can do
Mr. Plummer: All right. Let me conclude by asking one
question, which I must have an answer to. Mr. Manager, what in-
dication have you had from the International Police Chiefs
Association as to the time frame as to how long before they will
be making their recommendations to you?
Mr. Andrews: I have had excellent cooperation from them --and
may I just take one minute and tell you the process, because the
more we talk about' the process the better it will be understood,
not only by the Commission but by the participants. I will be
sending memorandums to every, personal memorandum, to every
member of the Police Department above the rank of Lieutenant in-
dicating to him that he has the privilege of making application
to me, accompanied' with a resume of his background., for the posi-
tion of Chief of Police. These will then be turned over to the
Chief's Association, and they will evaluate these applications.
They will conduct all interviews with each applicant. They will
then select six candidates from this grouping, which will then
be exposed to a two-day process of going through their local
assessment center for further evaluation. These six then will
be ranked and that information will be supplied to me. This
whole process, we estimate, will take no longer than by the end
of December, and absolutely no longer than the first week in
January; so I should have available by the first week in January
8
NOV 271974
LIMN MifAMIWMMl911 I II
information from the Association of Chiefs of Police. I estimate then it would
take me no longer than a week for me to go through my interview process with
those six candidates.
Reverend Gibson: I hope that Mr. Andrews has set out clearly and unmis-
takably what you are looking for, and.I want that made available to us. I don't
want the Chiefs of Police to decide ---- I want you to tell us the quality of
man you think is necessary to operate the City of Miami, not New York, Police
Department, because we had, unlike NewYork, some peculiarities here. We are
the gateway to th Latin Americas, and don't forget it. I talked with Chief
Hickman the other day, and Nassau is just a half hour ride from here --and I
want you to set forth the qualifications before --that's what I believe..
Otherwise we are not being fair to the men. Every man in the Police Department,
I am sure, thinks he ought to be the chief; and I want to tell them for the sake
of the record, I don't think all of them can be chief. So, Mr. Mayor, I insist
that we ask the Manager to set forth what he is looking for. You see, Mr.
Manager, if you set forth what you are looking for, you may be telling us a
hell of a lot more than we are going to be able to find out. Let's remember that.
And then I hope we are going to remember what the Mayor said when we decided to
get that team, and we said we were going to hold up the appointment of a chief,
and that is that we in the process of talking with these dudes, we go ask them
some questions, because we, the Commission, have got to enjoy the heat.
Mr. Earl Perkins was called and duly sworn by the Clerk.
Mr. Ron Silver, Assistant City Attorney: Mr. Perkins , will you please state
your name and address.
Mr. Perkins: Earl Perkins, 10250 Carribbean Boulevard, Miami, Florida.
Mr. Silver: Mr. Perkins ---
Reverend Gibson: Pardon me a minute. Mr. Andrews, before we get into that,
when may we hope to get from you your qualifications for the chief that you are
looking for?
Mr.Andrews: By the middle of next week.
Reverend Gibson: That will be hand delivered?
Mr. Andrews: Yes.
Reverend Gibson: What day?
Mr. Andrews: Wednesday.
Mr. Silver: Are you employed by the City of Miami, sir?
Mr. Perkins: I am.
Mr. Silver: In what gapacrity?
Mr.Perkins: I am a legal investigator assigned to the office of the
City Attorney.
Mr. Silver: I want to advise you that in your testimony today that any informa-
tion that you give as answers to the questions propounded by the Committee may be
the ubject of a disciplinary proceeding by the Civil Service Board if such facts
indicate a violation of the Civil Service rules. You understand that, sir?
Mr. Perkins: I understand.
Mr. Silver: Have you had previous military experience?
Mr. Perkins: Yes.
9
NOV 271974
i
Mt. Silver: And could you relate that experience to your job qualifi-
cations today.
Mr. Perkins: Yea. In 1935 I enlisted as a private in the United States
Army. In 1956 I retired as a Major, United States Army. During that period
of time 1 spent, out of the twenty-one years, approximately seven years as a
Major of military intelligence, and I spent approximately nine years as a
Military Police Commissioned Officer. I am a graduate of the Military Police
School and the Military Police Officer Course, the Criminal Investigator Course,
the Criminal Investigator Supervisors Course. I am also a graduate of the
British Army Intelligence School Field Security Course,in India. During my
career with military police I commanded various size organizations, ranging from
thirty to six hundred men. During that period of time I was assigned full-time
duty as an instructor in the Military Police School for a period of three and
one-half years. I specialized in the instruction of military law and of criminal
investigation techniques. During the Korean War I was the Chief Investigator, or
operations officer, for Army Criminal Investigation in Koo Song, Korea, where I
was directly responsible for all criminal investigations south of TeGoo. My
final assignment in the Army was to command the Military Police Detachment in
Nashville, Tennessee; what you would call the Provost Marshall of Nashville,
Tennessee. The qualifications I acquired during my military service qualified
me to take the Civil Service Examination for my present job.
Mayor Ferre: The point that I want to bring out here to the Commission is
that Major Perkins is a man who has had substantial experience in police matters,
and I didn't hear you state that you were Provost Marshall for the southern part
of Korea during the action ---
Mr. Perkins: No, sir. In Korea I was the Chief Criminal Investigator for
the southern portion of Korea. I was Provost Marshall of Nashville, Tennessee.
Mayor Ferre: I just wanted to point out tht you did have under criminal
investigation a major responsibility in an important area, South Korea. When
you were working as chief investigator in Korea how many people did you have
under your command?
Mr. Perkins: It varied,sir. The smallest number I had under my control
would have been approximately eighty, and the largest number would have been
approximately two hundred.
Mayor Ferre:So, in other words, what I want to make very clear here is that
your experience over a 21-year period, and your rank, and your responsibility in
the U. S. Army certainly qualifies you as a person knowledgeable in this field.
Mr. Perkins: Well, it may be of interest, sir. My final retirement paper
from the United States Army giving appropriate civilian qualifications states
that I am fully qualified for a chief of detectives or chief of police.
Mayor Ferre: Now, lest it be misunderstood, Major Perkins, you are not in-
terested in becoming Chief of Police of the City of Miami, as you told me.
Mr. Perkins: I would not accept the job if it were offered to me, sir.
Mr. Silver: How long have you been employed as investigator for the City
of Miami?
Mr. Perkins: Fourteen years.
Mr. Silver: In that capacity do you have occasion to come into connection
with claims which are brought against the City and its police officers?
Mr. Perkins: All tort claims against the City of Miami cross my desk.
Mr.Silver: Could you explain to the Commission briefly the procedure that
is followed with relation to these claims?
It-
NOV 271974
Mt. Perkins: Yes. First, for the record I had better define what a tort
is. A tort is a legal term which refers to an unlawful act or omission causing
injury o loss to another. Claims are filed in accordance with State Statutes,
and according to the City Charter, in the form of a letter or notice to theCity
that a claim exists, stating time, date place, circumstances and people involved.
The letter goes to the City Attorney, as required by the City Charter. They are
all automatically referred to me. I determine whether or not the claim is covered
by insurance carrier for the City. If so I refer the claim to the insurance carrier
for action. If it is not covered by insurance I investigate the claim, evaluate
the claim and report on it with ecommendation to the City Attorney.
Mr. Silver: Is that always the case, sir, regarding insurance companies, or
is that a recent vintage.
Mr. Perkins: It has always been the case where there is insurance. We have
had police insurance coverage for the last two years. Prior to that I inestigated
all claims against the City involving police officers, and I worked with Mr. John
Lloyd, presently the City Attorney, who was then Chief of theTorts Division, as a
member of the trial team which defended the City and the police officer in lawsuits
connected wth these claims.
Mr. Silver: In recent years have you noticed any trend regarding the tort
claims involving the City?
Mr. Perkins: Yes, there is a definite, noticeable increase in the first part of
74, when we compiled the 1973 statistics. I brought this to the attention of the
City Attorney, and I expressed at that time my opinion that this was indicative
of the need for additional training involving tort awareness and tort avoidance.
The City Attorney agreed with me. Based on past experience we are very concerned
with police tort claims from the aspect of humanity, because every time we see a
justified police tort claim that means somebody got hurt and they shouldn't have.
We are also concerned, of course, because they cost the City money. I might add
here that we have two classes that these claims will fall into. The Commission
should be fully aware of this. Past experience has shown that approximately fifty
per cent of tort claims involving police officers eventually turn out to be un-
founded; there is no claim at all . Somebody got mad because the police officer did
his job. On the other hand, approximately fifty per cent. of them turn out to be
justified. In ther words, somebody was hurt when they shouldn't have been hurt.
The policeman did something he shouldn't have done, or he didn't do something he
should have done. Naturally we are concerned with any increase in the general
rate of torts involving police officers because we know approximately fifty per
cent. of them are justified claims.
ing?
Mr. Silver: Do you know where the police officers today receive their train -
Mr. Perkins: Yes, sir; at the Southeast Florida Institute for Criminal
Justice, which is the present-day County -wide police Academy conducted at the
Junior College.
Mr. Silver: Have you had occasion to review the curriculum?
Mr. Perkins: Yes, I have. When I came to the City Attorney the first part of
this year and brought the increase in the number of claims to his attention; stated
that I thought it indicated the need for further training, he concurred. He se-
cured a copy of the curriculum for the Southeast Florida Institute for Criminal
Justice. Mr. Lloyd and I separately and individually reviewed the cirriculum. We
discussed the matter and we found that we had come, each of us, to the same conclu-
sion; the curriculum contained nothing referring to training concerning tort aware-
ness or tort avoidance. Mr. Lloyd directed me to find out more on the subject and
to take corrective action. I contacted the police legal advisors and I examined
their curriculum for the in-service training presently being given to City of
Miami police officers. This contained nothing concerning tort awareness or tort
avoidance. So I sat down and wrote a recommended training program for police
officers on this subject consisting of six pages. I also wrote a lesson plan for
the first stage. These were approved by the City Attorney; we requested time from
the Police Department for training purposes and were granted that tim. I went
lY
NOV 271974
down and taught two classes of the in-service training on the first subject of
tort awareness. then we video-taped the presentation, and it is still being used,
as I underdtand it, on a daily basis in in-service training for the police depart-
ment. As a matter• of interest the reaction of the younger police officers to this
presentation on tort awareness confirmed my prior opinion; that there was a need
for additional training. The older officers who had presumably been with the de-
partment longer, would sit back -- and I am sure you have all been in front of a
class where some of the students would fold their arms and smile and nod wisely;
yes, they already knew this. The younger police officers had a reaction of
amazement. They were incredulous. You mean I am personally liable on these
thinga? So to me that is indicative of the fact that additional training is
certainly needed. Now, during the time that I have been discussing this Mr. Donal
Stewart and I --Mr. Stewart is the City Property Manager and Purchasing Agent --
met with representatives of the Appalachian Insurance Company, the City's police
insurance carrier. We discussed this subject with them, and it eventually wound
up that the City received a tremendous increase in its insurance premium for re-
newal for this year. They told us that was coming because of the number of claims
and lawsuits involved. I told them my opinion that additional training was needed
and they agreed, and they produced a little printed form, which has now been ap-
proved and I understand is being printed right now for distribution to the police
officers which ties in with the initial presentation on tort awareness.
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you, is there any, in your opinion, relationship be-
tween this lack of, or almost ignoring, in the educational process toward torts
and the relationship within the City of Miami Police Department to the problems
that we have had?
Mr. Perkins: Yes, sir; I think so, because to me the number of torts that are
committed by a body of men are clearly indicative, not only of their training, but
of their discipline and their morale.
Mayor Ferre: So you think that we have had a problem then in the educational
process within the structure ---
Mr. Perkins: There is no doubt about it in my mind,sir..
Mayor Ferre: And it is clearly reflected in the results.
Mr. Perkins: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, are you aware of this?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, I am; totally aware, including some of the statistics in-
volved in these matters, and the increase of arrests over the year the increase of
exposure; the increase which represents about twenty per cent. in cases, and two
hundred per cent, if I am correct, in the insurance requirements for the coming
year.
Mayor Ferre: You mean the premium?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: How long have you been aware of this problem?
Mr. Andrews: The full aspect of it, about sixty days, I would say.
Mayor Ferre: How long have we been involved with the, what is it called, the
Police Institute?
Mr. Andrews: I believe about three or three and a half years, but I would have
to check that.
Mr. Perkins: I can answer that, Mr. Mayor. The first class of City of
Miami recruit policemen at the Southeast Florida Institute started on November
13, 1972.
NOV 271974
+u1.1rnamso a
Mayor Ferre: All tight, let me just stop you there; November, 1972.
So it has been about two years, then. Now have you been aware of this problem
for two years?
Mr. Perkins: I noted in 1973 that there was an increase in the amount of
police tort claims, but it wasn't an alarming increase.
Mayor Ferre: I am not asking you about the increase. I am asking you were
you aware that the training program in the institute was deficient, as you claim.
You have stated that it Was deficient. My question to you is when did you become
aware that the training was deficient?
Mr. Perkins: Approximately the middle of 1974, sir. I had an opinion it
might be before then, but I became aware of it in the middle of this year.
Mayor Ferre: I want to point out that we do not know all of th problems that
exist, and basically what we tried to do is ut of the many problems tha may exist
we pulled one out. Now, I always assume tht where there is smoke there has got to
be a little bit of fire somewhere. Now here is an area that cropped its head out.
I see two problems areas here. We have had this academy for two years, and it
took us a year and a half to recognize that such a problem exists. Do we always
have to wait until the results are so obvious, like a 200% increase in premiums,
do we always have to wait for something like that to actually happen before we
recognize that we have a problem. That's number one. And the second point that
I want to make, and the second question that Iwant to ask is if that problem exists
could there be other problems in the academy or the institute?
Mr. Andrews: First, let us have a clear understanding that I recognize the
problem that exists there, the way the problem is being described here. Mr. Lloyd,
I would say, four months ago or so informed me of his finding in this area and dis-
cussed with me the actions that he had proposed to take to correctit. In fact, I
approved of it, and hopefully participated in setting the pattern to see that the
kind of training that he was proposing was carried forward when it was brought to
my attention. I want to press this again; I recognize that this is a problem and
it needs attention; that we should try to minimize the problem, but there are some
other aspects that are not being brought out here that I think should be brought
in fairness to this, and they are such things as, has there been any diversion of
attorney's attention to these kind of problems which we had no-fault insurance?
That's one matter. Is there greater exposure on the part of the Police Department
because they are doing their job, and are there more arrests; are there more con-
tacts with the public where this can take place?
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me. You are going into another area --and I agree that
you should, but I want to point out, and I want to come back --that's not my con-
cern, even though it is a concern. My concern is that here is a major problem.
We are educating men to be police officers; to be responsible; to be knowledgeable;
to be responsive, and yet here we have a man who is an expert in this, as I under-
stand it, who says that there was absolutely no training. Now it comes to light
in the last sixty days. It seems to me indicative of a problem. What I am con-
cerned about is not whether or not there was training or there is none, but the
fact that it took a year and a half, with the assistance of an academy, without
there being a filtering of knowledge coming up through the Police Department,
through the Manager, informing the Manager of what is going on and that there is
a problem. Does it take 2002 in insurance premiums or a rash outburst of tort
cases for Major Perkins to have to point this out to Mr. Lloyd, who points it
out to you, or for you to findout from Mr. Lloyd, or is this something --and I
am not criticizing you directly, Mr. Andrews, I am criticizing the system --
in which there obviously was no review process. How could we be training police-
men without training them in an important, major, specific area, and if there is
then that void, then I'll call it negligence in the training process. Are there
others? Other areas of problems? If there is a problem --you now say there is a
problem and you have been aware of it for sixty days, was it part of your verbal
report when you made it? Did you report to it? Did you say, we have a problem
in the academy; we have at least one problem. It's the education in the torts
area. We don't have all of the answers, but we are going to be going into it.
Now, I think this is an important area that we have to address ourselves to.
Mrs. Gordon: Major Perkins, I wonder if you could indicate to us the
number of graduates that came out of these classes in 1972, officers that were
given training, but apparently not sufficient training according to your state-
ment.
Mr. Perkins: I am sorry, Ma'am, I have no idea as to the number.
Mrs. Gordon: I think it is an important facet of our discussion, fr this
very reason only. There has been an increase in tort cases, there is no question.
We are not doubting what you are saying, but what is a nagging point in my mind
is how many of these cases were involving those graduates who came out of this
training program since its inception, which was 1972. How many of them were
those who have been in service much longer. I commend you for finding something
lacking in the training program, but I wonder about the cause and effect if in
fact the increase in court cases is only due to this lack of the training since
1972. It's an important fact. Mr. Lloyd, Maybe you can answer it, or someone
else can answer it, but it is one that I would like to know in evaluating in my
mind just where are we and where are we going?
Mayor Ferre: I might, if I may, just point out that this does not mean that
the previous training was not just as lacking in tort training, and even if it
were or were not the point is not so much the problem of lack of tort training
but I keep repeating that my point is that it has not been properly recognized
by the administrative structure and addressed and corrected. That's where I am
heading. It isn't the specifics of whether or not there is tort training. That's
just, in my opinion, an example of what may be happening; and I want to address
myself to whether or not we are getting the proper training; not whether or not
we graduated fifty or a hundred. It is an important detail, but I don't think
that it really speaks to the main thrust of the problem. The point is that it
hasn't been recognized; it hasn't been addressed; it hasn't been corrected.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, please don't misunderstand me. I wasn't questioning
that specifically for that reason alone, but also because I heard mention made of
other causes unrelated to us in the City of Miami Police Department that have had
an effect upon the number of tort cases, and I want to know all the facts. Yost
want all the facts, and these are some of the facts that we should have.
Mr. Perkins: Mrs. Gordon, I don't have the figures on the number of graduates,
but I do have some statistics which to me are persuasive, although they are not
conclusive. To begin with, when the Ciy of Miami had its own police academy Mr.
Lloyd at that time was Chief of the Torts Division. I was working with him. He
and I were both heavily involved in advising and answering questions of police
officers concerning tort work. That was our field. The statistics I have here
show that in 1973 there was a decrease in the total number of tort claims of all
kinds brought against the city. There was an increase in the police tort claims.
In 1974 there was a slight increase in the total number of tort claims, while
there was a large increase in the number of police tort claims. The only figures
I have available to me are these tort figures, but the ratio of police cases in
comparison with the number of total tort cases has definitely increased since the
City of Miami phased out its own police academy.
That's the reason why I questioned you, Major; because of what you are just
saying. You reiterate and support my question; the fact being that prior to
1972 you say the officers received a more intensive amount of training regarding
tort cases, or how to avoid that type of case. On the other hand, I am interested
in knowing how many graduates came out of the South Florida Academy who were in-
volved in the tort cases, which apparently have increased. I want to know whether
it is the new ones or those that received their training prior to 1972 that caused
the increase. I want to know who is doing what to whom, and why.
Mr. Perkins: I don't have the figures on that, Ma'am. The Police Department
might be able to compile them.
Mrs. Gordon: Thank you. You have raised a very important point, and I
appreciate your information and appreciate your being here.
11.1111•11i111.11
14 Atm/ 2 71974
• •
Reverend Gibson: What I think I hear being said --Mr. Lloyd, if what we
hear is true --and I think I hear the Mayor saying --if what we hear is true
the Mayor's concern with whether or not the City has made this fact known to
the academy; whether or not the academy in the training process is dealing
with this kind of a thing to help us not to always have all these tort cases.
And if the system is such that you have to go around Robin Hood's barn and have
a 200% increase, the Mayor is concerned that there must be a more direct way
of getting to it, and getting td it PDQ.
Mr. Lloyd: Yes, sir; I have to agree with you that the system is improper.
This is one of the things that I think we ar faced with and that we have to
grapple with, and I think that you have got onto to num of the problem, because
actually neither Mr. Perkins nor myself has any authority to tell the Southeast
Training Academy what to do. It must be done by some other authority than our-
selves. Now there is a committee of, I believe, police chiefs of the municipal-
ities. I know that Chief Garmire at one time when he was here was on that
committee, which acts as a policy board for the police academy, and I think one
of the problems is that other municipalities do not have the same problems that
the City of Miami has, and you have a police academy which is attempting to be
something to all municipalities, and it just can't be that. For instance, the
City of Miami has different police problems than the City of Coral Gables or
the City of Miami Beach, and we must address ourselves to this. Yes, you are
right; that the system of getting to the Southeast Police Academy, there is
something wrong with it, and I must confess that I, myself, personally, nor Mr.
Perkins, we are incapable of changing that system ouselves. We must first pre-
sent the problem and then the Commission and the administration and other people
must address themselveg to it. I will say, however, if I may, that both Mr.
Perkins and I have addressed ourselves, I believe, to the problem as rapidly and
as efficiently as we know how, doing what we can do. We have with the excellent
cooperation of the Police Department, installed in-service training in the Police
Department. Now we used to do this a number of years ago. I, personally, con-
ducted the classes. Mr. Perkins assisted me, for a number of years. For some
time, however, these in-service training classes were discontinued. They have
now just recently been started again.
Mrs. Gordon: When were they discontinued?
Mr. Lloyd: I don't know. Perhaps Mr. Perkins can --they were discontinued
some time in the '60's.
Mrs. Gordon: Why were they discontinued?
Mr. Lloyd: I dn't know. They just sort of stopped.
Mayor Ferre: You see, this is precisely the point.. Doesn't the police
administration; isn't it responsive to recognizing the fault and correcting it?
It really should not be the job of the City of Miami Commission to have to bring
this point out. This is something that should have been addressed to a long
time ago and we shouldn't have to be .talking about it. That's where I am head-
ing; that's why I am concerned. Now, for example, I don't know how many graduates
we have had from this new academy. Whatever it is, have we considered, Mr.
Andrews, going back and giving these officers that are now out on the street
some additional training in an area that we have now recognized for the last
60 day that they have not had sufficient training?
Mr. Lloyd: This is the whole purpose of this; and the Police Department has
reacted, and we have reacted in cooperation with them, and the classes are now
on -going.
Reverend Gibson: Let me raise a question that has nothing to do with this
hearing, but if what I hear is what I hear, Mr. Mayor, I don't know if you hear.
What I hear is in a big city like this, with its complexities, it would be virtually
impossible for a manager to know all of the things that are going on. Are you
telling net Mr. Managers --you aren't telling me anything --I read that we may not
have come to the point where ---because, you know, to get these reports and don't
15
Nov 2 71974
read them and don't react to them we are in trouble. OR? Are you telling me
that, based on what you were talking about the other day, that this kind --I
am trying to be polite --let me put it this way: Are you telling me that if what
you recommended to us the other day, if we followed it, are you telling me this
kind of thing wouldn't happen, and that there would be a greater possibility of
fedd=-back to the Manager?
Mr. Andrews: What is it that I told you? And this is in reference to the
what, the Police Foundation Study, or what?
Reverend Gibson: No, man; the Boozy -Allen people told you to change your method
of reporting and structure. If that were done, is it true that the likeliness of
what is now happening wouldn't happen that --you use a terminology that would be the
constant reviewing. I don't know if I am getting through to you.
Mr. Andrews: I am not positive of the area that you are referring to in Booz-
Allen.
Reverend Gibson: Let me try it another way. The Mayor, I think, has a good
claim. Why should it take us all this time to know that the problem of torts is
such that our insurancecosts have gone up 20OZ, and that there is a deficiency
in the preparation of the me, and we do not know. Are you telling me that if this
City administration was compartmentalized that the man who heads that compartment
would be constantly on it, and that this would not be left to go at random for an
indefinite period.
Mr. Andrews: Yea, sir.
Reverend Gibson: Well, Mr. Andrews, what we are saying is you have got to
make your case; you know what I mean?
Mr. Andrews: Yes,sir.
Mayor Ferre: I see where Father is going, and I happen to agree with the
thrust of what he is saying, but the questin still has to be asked where is the
police chief and where are the assistant police chiefs and where is the structure
of the police department?
Mr. Andrews: In fairness to this matter let's review and have Mr. Perkins
re-establish for the Commission the time sequence of making this discovery. There
are other problems that the Police Department has, and doesn't even recognize that
it has, and it takes someone like Mr. Perkins to bring this out.
Mayor Ferre: But, Paul, that's exactly the point. Should it take someone
like Mr. Perkins to investigate something that really should be patently obvious.
Row can we have education of a police department if it does not address itself
to a major area of education. Where is the review process? Don't we look at the
curriculum? Don't we know what they are being taught? Isn't there --you know, the
Police Chiefs meet and they talk about this, and why didn't Miami say,now wait a
moment; we have a lot of tort problems; we need some more educaton in torts? Is
it really necessary for Mr. Perkins to point this out? Does it really require this
Commission to have a hearing to point this problem out?
Mr. Andrews: No, I don't think so. And there are other areas that the
Commission is not aware of, and I don't have them in detail. We would have to
call on the Police personnel to describe those areas where there are other
changes needed in the institute, and in fact, Mr. Mayor, because the City wants
to be cooperative and assist in the establishment of uniform standards to be
used in the basic training of recruits, you will recall that this Commission, at
the urging of the City Manager, authorized that we utilize the institute and re-
inforce it; but if we had the preference in this matter, the police personnel would
prefer to conduct its own training.
Mr. Plummer: So, we are going to get back to that.
16
Mrs. Gordon: Can I ask a ---
Mk. Plummer: Mrs. Gordon, I have been waiting very patiently. I appreciate
all Mr. Perkins has said, and Mr. Perkins, I think you are going to '.,e very familiar
with what I have got to say. You,say, why didn't this Commission recognize
this? Why didn't the Manager. This Commission did recognize this. This is some-
thing that is not sixty days old. This is not ninety days old. I am going to
refer you to a now controversial report which was tried to be sought by some TV
stations, and for some reason Couldn't get, but Mr.Mayor back in February of this
year, ten months ago, it became very obvious to me that this problem was completely
out of hand, and because of that at a Commission meeting I demanded a report on
the situation be supplied for the record, which the reply came back to this
Commission on April the 9th. Not sixty days ago, but the report was in our hands
roughly seven months ago tihen I said before this Commission, what in the devil is
going on? Why are these things Skyrocketing? Why are we settling these cases out
of court? This is the report, and I am going to tell you something; it is exactly
what I thought; that these cases were going berserk. Now it is rather obvious that
this Commission, through my questioning, did raise these questions back in April.
Now the very, very obvious question has to be asked; in seven months why hasn't
something been done about it. Now here it is every case going back to February 6th
of 1972, and every one of these cases are showing that the City of Miami's liability
is skyrocketing. When I saw the price of the premium that we were paying, I couldn't
believe it. Now here this is seven months ago, but somehow or another nothing has
been done about it.
Mrs. Gordon: J. L., is there anything in that report that,you are holding that in-
dicates who the officers were?
Mr. Plummer: Yes,Ma'am.
Mrs. Gordon: Does it indicate when they received their training?
Mr. Plummer: No.
Mrs. Gordon: All right; I want that information supplied to me, if I may,
Mr. Manager, please? It establishes a time frame, and if we can have it en toto,
I would appreciate it.
Mr. Plummer: This report went on to say,for example, that in the period of
November, 1972 to November, 1973, we, the City, paid out in either claims, settle-
ments, or what have you, a hundred and thirteen thousand, six hundred and seventy-
six dollars. And listen to this; for a loss ratio of 191%.
Mayor Ferre: How could that be?
Mr. Plummer: That is the loss ratio; what the man was saying here the other
day; that for every dollar of premium we paid them, he paid out three dollars and
fifteen cents in claims. But the obvious thing to me, as a laymen, is that these
figures back eight, nine, ten months ago were very obvious. The report came out
dated April 9th of '74, and here we are on November 27th, 74, and yet nothing is
recognized.
Mrs. Gordon: I thought I heard Major Perkins say that he had begun a training
program some four months ago ---
Mayor Ferre: No, that's just last month, isn't it, in the last couple of
months?
Mr. Perkins: Yes; actual training has been going about two weeks.
17 nu 2 71974
•
1
1
1
Mayor Ferre: On this point, I think it is important, Mr. Andrews, that that
report be updated from what it was several months ago. Number two; these are public
figures. 1 would like to see a count --there are some officers who have been in-
volved in as many as five or six of these claims, and I think , since it is public
information, I'd like to see a compilation of the last three or four years, of
repetition and specifically each officer involved, and I'd like to know what training
each officer has had in torts; anybody that has been on that more than twice.
Mrs.'Gordon: Major Perkins, did you say that before,1972 the Miami Police
Academy did the training and did give to those graduates specific training in
torts?
Mr. Perkins: I know that they did for some period of time when they were
having in-service training. I know before the Police Academy transferred Mr.
Lloyd and I both were constantly on the telephone answering questions from
various police officers ---
Mayor Ferre: No, that's not the question. You made a statement a little while
ago that we stopped this training in the 1960's.
Mrs. Gordon: That's what Mr. Lloyd said;, but Mr. Perkins didn't say that. He
said that prior to 1972 the Miami Police Academy was doing its own training, and up
until that time that he indicated, at least I understood him to say, that officers
were receiving specific training with regard to torts; that after the training was
taken over by the Southeast Florida Academy, that this kind of training was not
complete, and not discovered, and the point is very clear in my mind, and I want it
even for clear, and I think it will become crystal clear when Mr. Andrews supplies
me with the date of graduation of each of the officers involved in the increase
of tort claims, and then we can really have the facts, and know what is happening,
or what really happened.
Mayor Ferre: When did the City ofMiami stop training in torts? Mr. Lloyd or
Mr. Perkins, either one of you.
Mr. Lloyd: This I do not know, when and if they stopped any training in tort
awareness in our own Police Academy.
W. Perkins: I do not know either,sir. The only thing Iknow is that the
inquiries concerning torts I received from police officers, were quite frequent
when we had our own police academy. Since it was transferred I haven't received
them.
Mayor Ferre: All right, would you, Mr. Andrews, get an answer for us on that.
Now, ladies and gentlemen, we really have to ---
Mrs. Gordon: Can we have that today, Mr. Andrews? Just the up -date at least
on what Mr. Plummer spoke about.
Mr. Plummer: I am not finished. I would also like to bring out the fact
that the figure of one hundred and thirteen thousand dollars is what the City
paid out. It does not include the moneys that have been paid out by the insurance
companies, which is an additional figure. In one case we settled out of court
for just under a million dollars; one case. Mr. Perkins, in your estimation, sir,
and I think we have got to get back to the nitty gritty, number one; do you have,
or through the City Attorney, any recommendations along the following; number one;
that we immediately cease using the academy that we are now using and go back to the
old?
Mr. Perkins: I can give you an opinion on that.. I would say, sir that first
as exploration should be made as to whether or not the present-day academy will
add this training to their curriculum, and also as to whether or not the City
would prefer to continue the tort training as an in-service training on a permanent
basis. I think you would have to have that one answered first.
18 NOV 2 71974
tio
Mt. Plummer: I am speaking as to the ecperience and knowledge of a man
who is graduated from this new academy as opposed to our own academy when
McClure was running it. Do you see the caliber of nen coming out of the new
academy as better, not as good, as opposed to the cal:.ber of men produced from
our own academy? What is your opinion?
Mr. Perkins: I have no opinion on that, air. I don't have the facts on
which to base an opinion.
Mr. Plummer: Did you say that in our own academy that torts were taught or
they were not?
Mr. Perkins: I.know they were taught for a period of time. I do not know
how much tort training time was in the curriculum. I don't know the exact dates.
All I have is a recollectin. When Mr. Lloyd and I were working as a torts team,
he frequently went to the police academy and taught classes in torts, and I went
along with him. I also know that when we were still a trial torts team, his phone
and mine were constantly busy with police officers and police commanders calling
in for information concerning tort matters. Sice the transfer to the new
academy has been made I have not received any large number of calls.
Mr. Plummer: My final question to you is this: --well, this is unfair to you --
Mr. Lloyd, a great number of these cases are being settled out of court. Do you
think that the City's legal department needs to take a fresh look at the possibility
of maybe we are taking the path of least resistance? What I am really saying is this;
should we try to put up a better fight and fight these cases, which a lot of them
we understand, from even using Mr. Perkins' report fifty per cent. of them are
frivolous and have no bearing; should the City take a hard line, if you will, in
these cases, instead of just taking the easy; let's settle it out and get rid of it?
Mr. Lloyd: Let me respond to that in this way; that the City of Miami, ever
since I have been in charge of the torts division, and even now, has always taken
a hard line. We do not recommend settlement of any tort case before this Commission
unless we have absolutely determined that it is in the best interests of the City
of Miami to settle such tort claims. We do not settle as a matter of policy anywhere
near the number of tort claims, either police or otherwise, that our insurance company
settles, and the reason is obvious; because the insurance companies must buy claims
because it is cheaper to do that than go to court, and you can get any number of
nuisance settlements out of insurance companies on a case, because they have to pay
attorneys fees,costs, and such items that the City of Miami doesn't. We have a
staff. If you will check --and the plaintiffs attorneys around town --I know when I
was personally handling these cases I was known as the tightest, expletive deleted,
defense courts lawyer in the area. We do not settle any tort claims that we feel
are worthless claims. We are continually taking a hard line, and we settle claims
on two bases. The first basis is, is it humanitarian and should we settle it.
We represent a public body. This City of Miami has a duty to the public that
isurance companies do not have. If we feel that in justice we should settle a
claim, we settle it and recommend it to this Commission. There are times when we
feel that it is in the best policy of the City Commission to settle a claim in the
best interest of the City of Miami. If there is doubtful liability we will
recommend settlement on a reasonable basis.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Lloyd, what I am trying to say --not they your department in
any way did I infer is derelict, but are we in fact looking at the insurance
company settling these claims which would set a bad trend, so-called nuisance
value, just to clean them out and get rid of them, or should we take a fresh look.
Who is reviewing what claims the insurance company settles?
Mr. Lloyd: Mr. Perkins, possibly, would like to answer that instead of myself.
I can give you an answer, and I'd be delighted to. Both Mr. Perkins and I are
reviewing this, because we are currently taking a hard look at the reserves whicb
the insurance company is setting up on which basis they have increased our premium,
and we are attacking that with vigor.
1
1.9 N0V271974
iatlY IWi41ri1�'llfdll Itll11!I1
Mr. Plummer: What I was. getting at was this: The reserves in the 72-73--
and I look over these eases of the 72-73 they have set up almost a hundred
thousand dollars worth of reserves, which has a very important bearing on our
premium. Now, do you, the Law Department, retain control, or review, or suggest
to the insurance company setting up their own reserves of which they base our
premium?
Mr. Lloyd: Not sufficient in our minds, so we are gett-:ng into that problem
ourselves right now, and Mr. Perkins can talk to you further on that, because he
has gone very thoroughly into it, and we are continually having meetings with the
Appalachian Insurance Company discussing; that very subject, and we have challenged
them on that, and he has done, in my bet-alf, under my direction, control and super
vision, the direct challenging. I you would like to hear from him ---
Mr. Plummer: I jsut want to know if it is being done.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Lloyd, it's alm ost eleven o'clock and we are way behind,
and we have many other important things to get into. This is not, as I said in
my opening statement, this is not going to solve all the problems, nor point out
all the problems. All we are trying to do is, with a broad brush stroke, point out
that there are problems in areas, and hopefully address ourselves to these problems
to solve them. Our criticism is not destructive. We want to be constructive. We
want to point these problems out so that we can then address ourselves to them
and to the solving of these problems. I really think we have gone enough into this
area.
Mr. Plummer: I want to ask one other question. Mr. Perkins, --what was the
name of the gentleman who was here from the insurance company?
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Knight.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Knight seemed to make a big to-do about the fact that his
company had to spend some twenty-six thousand dollars last year to further inves-
tigate beyond what Internal Security had done for his company. He was complaining,
as I understood it, that his company had to shell out twenty-six thousand dollars,
as I understood, that he shouldn't be shelling out. Would you speak to that, and
also, are we doing anything about it if there is a problem?
Mr. Perkins: Yes, sir. The set-up originally when the insrance came in, was
that Mr.Knight, upon receipt of a claim, would request from Internal Security any
internal security report they have on this matter. Then if he determined he needed
further investigation he would turn it over to his own investigator, which would be
charged back to th company. They would pay the fee. That's the twenty-six thousand
dollars. As a member of the Committee Mr. Andrews appointed October the 31st, to
look into this situation, the committee has gone into it, and we have found it
appropriate to recommend that the Police Department change a policy they formerly
had. The formerly used to investigate, or have an investigation only on those
claims where a complaint had been filed with Internal Security. On the others they
would have no investigation. We have recommended that the policy be changed. The
Police Department concurs, so that they will now investigate every claim that comes
in which involves the City of Miami or a police officer. There will be an Internal
Review investigation on it. It will be thorough and it will be available to Mr.
Knight. This, hopefully, will save tremendously on investigative fees in the
future. That's one of the objects.
Mr. Plummer: All right. Mr. Manager, let me finally ask this question of you.
As we read this report --and I am not going to mention any names at all, but some
names keep coming up of certain officers. Now I know that we are paying a
psychiatrist --I don't really know what he does over there --we are paying a
psychiatrist about twenty-two thousand dollars a year, in that general area, give
or take. It seems like to me --or maybe the question that I wish to ask is this:
What is being done by the department or by the administration, in the areas of
these officers who seem to have a repetition of problems? Now I realize, as he
said, that fifty per cent. of them are unfounded, but when you look at these
reports and certain names seem to continuously evolve to the top, is any training
or special attention being given to these individuals? Are they, for example,
20
Nov 2 71974
410 •
being Millen out of dealing with the public and put on the inside? What is
being done? because it is rather obvious to me that if you have a certain
problem with a certain individual, some special attention has got to be given,
other than waiting for the straw that breaks the camel's back and fire him.
Are we doing anything for those men that we have an investment in in th way of
maybe call it specialized training, to try, if I may, to settle these men down2
To try to change their thinkin,;? This is what I assume we are paying the
psychiatrist for. Now, are we doing anything in that area? Do we need to do
more in that area? What does the administration have to say?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, we areadoing things in that area, and to answer your last
part, we need to do more. The department is conscious of some of these problems
and by changing the assignments of some of these persons they have been able to
solve a portion of the problems, but not nearly to the extent that you are attempt-
ing to bring out here.
Mayor Ferre: Well, Mr. Andrews, would you address yourself to that in a
future memorandum to the Commission? As I keep repeating here, we are not going
to get all the solutions. We are just pointing out the problem areas, and I
think it is important. Obviously you are not ready to answer that at this point.
Mr. Andrews: I am not in a position to authoritatively answer that question
completely, but I am aware of these aspects, which I just told you about.
Mayor Ferre: All right; do you have any further questions of Major Perkins?
Mr. Silver: I jsut wanted to clarify one point. There are approximately
ninety members who have graduated from the institute since its inception.
Mrs. Godon: And out of those you are going to tell us how many were involved
in these tort cases.
Reverend Gibson: As a final comment; I hope the Commission wouldn't step
backward by trying to train our own men, because we are too enlightened for that.
If we have peculiar problems, Mr. Andrews, it seems to me that we would be dealing
with our own special, peculiar problems, because that would be archaic. When you
train a police officer now the thought is that a man could leave Miami and go to
Coral Gables, or leave Coral Gables and go to Hialeah, or if he goes to Hialeah,
you know, the requirements.
Mr. Oscar Paz appeared and was duly sworn by the Clerk.
Mr. Silver: Mr. Paz, would you state your full name, please? And your
address?
Mr. Paz: My name is Oscar Paz, Jr. I live at 143 NW 25th Avenue, Miami.
Mr. Silver: Are you employed by the City of Miami?
Mr. Paz: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Paz, when was the first time you and I met?
Mr. Paz: Monday morning.
Mayor Ferre: Have you and I ever talked before?
Mr. Paz: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: About anything? By phone or indirectly?.
Mr. Paz: No, sir.
21
NOV 271974
Mayor Ferre: I want to make this statement. Over the last year I have had
a series -and I would say well over a dozen --of Spanish speaking, potential
officers that have applied for the job or have been part of the process in the
academy, and I have been impressed with the fact that not always in my opinion,
are matters handled in a fair way with regard to minority positions. Nov, I
want to point out-- and I want to read from the Ford Foundation, Police Foundation,
excuse me, report to theJacobs Company, Inc., of August, 1972, page 8, it says
under section 3, Minority recruitment --it says the following: Given our
country's historical trend as regards race relations, it is not likely that this
problem will be solved without a commitment to positive minority recruitment pro-
grams. However, many of the barriers to such programs exist within the agencies
themselves, because policemen have been viewed as tools of the affluent and
privileged. Minorities are generally repulsed by the idea of joining their ranks.
It seems that an effective recruitment effort must deal with those internal and
external considerations affecting incompetent personnel with positive attitudes
within these agencies, and programs designed to improve attitudes with minority
communities. Reasons for past difficulties in minority recruitment are difficult
to assess, as they often arise from the perceptions of the minority community to-
ward the police agency. However, to the extent that past attitudes are influenced
by overly rigid civil service selection criteria, or by police practices, which
could be perceived as discriminatory, such practices should be reviewed. Now, Mr.
Paz came to see me on Monday, and I just at random selected him. I could have
selected a dozen others to come speak here today. I don't know him. I have never
met him before Monday. He just happens to be a typical case of the many that I
have talked to, and I want him, in his own words, to tell his own story.
Mr. Paz: In July of 1973 I moved to Florida from West New York, N. J.
with the hope of starting a career in the field of law enforcement. For the
previous one and half years I have been actively involved with the West New
York Auxiliary Polio, as a patrolman. I was also vice-president and treasurer
of the West New York Ambulance and Rescue Squad and president of the New Jersey
First Aid Council. I also worked as a private investigator supervisor for a
private detective agency. I had outstanding recommendations from all these
sources including a certificate of merit and certificate of appreciation from
the West New York Ambulance Corp, and I also received a commendation from the
Mayor of West New York.
On October of 1973 I took the examination for the job of police officer
for the Dade County Public Safety Department. They were pleased with my
background and recommendations, and i was hired on January 31, 1974. I was
temporarily assigned to Central District Headquarters for a period of one
month while I waited for an opening in the Police Academy. My job consisted
of transporting prisoners to and from Dade County Stockade. At the end of the
period my supervisor advised me as to haw pleased he was with my performance
on the job. On March 4 of 1974, I entered_ the Southeast Fla Institute of
Criminal Justice, more commonly known as the Police Academy. Here I began training
for the job of police officer. This academy, the training center for all police
departments in Dade County, that is to say invidivual departments do not have
separate facilities, and all police recruits attend the same academy. I was told
by the instructors at the academy that it was designed and operated by all police
departments, however, the academy is run mostly by the Dade County Public Safety
Department personnel. In the periods that followed , since we
car in as early as 5:30 A.M. and left sometimes as late 6:30 P.M. Home work
was piling up rapidly and after a full day of exercise and then class work, I
used the rest of the day to shine shoes and polish braes buckles, iron shirts
and make sure the uniform didn't have any threads on it. I spent one or two
hours every night doing this, whatever time was left I used to study. All this
pressure manifieeted itself among the class. There were arguments in class in
referenceto the class president who had been appointed by the faculty, and not
elected as the students wanted it. His attitude towards his class mates at times
Mayor Ferro: -,--you are talking about the president's attitude, who
was appointed, not elected?
Mr. Pas; Yea, he was appointed not elected, --his attitude towards his
classmates at times left a lot to be desired, however he had been chosen,
end his actions, whether good or bad had to be assessed by the clans. Insulting
22 NOV 271974
remarks towards different ethnic groups were not unusual amoung classmates.
The class became more discontent, there were frequent arguments between the
class and the leaders, who were taking matters into their own hands which was
not their job. One morning I decided to do sokething abou the problem by speaking
up. My classmates advised to keep my mouth shut and to let things pass. Perhaps
if I would have done so, I would be a police officer today. However, I thought
I was doing the right thing by speaking up. I approached one of my training in-
structors and advised of him of the class problem. He listened and asked
for suggestions and stated he would go through the necessary channels to correct
that problem. Several days later, there was another heated argument. This time
the class kdvisor, and even the assistant training coordinator at the -academy
had to intervene. This was the same that I had previously called to their
attention of my advisors, however the only thing I gained by the discussion
was that I was being watched extra closely. Events that had previously gone
unnoticed were now made into issues.
A few days after that incident I was called out of class and my advisor
was waiting for me with a gentleman, who he introduced to me as a psychiatrist
from the public safety department. He wanted me to talk to him in reference to
what had taken place earlier that week. I never again heard from the psychiatrist
after that date, however I realized what they were trying to do. They were trying
to find a way to put me out. They could not do it academic -wise for I had an
average of 85 in all of my examinations up until that date, I had never been late
or absent, and participated fully in all class events and my uniform was as clean
and as neat as was required. We were now in our 7th week, and it was time to
go to the range. I scored an average of 297 out of a possible 300 points. They
were still watching me very closely. We were assigned partners, for whose scores
we were responsible, however in the confusion of the first day, another trainee
scored my partner's target. After realizing his mistake, he approached me, letting
me know he had already scored the target, and since he was my partner, I should
sign the card. Since there was no way for me to recheck the target, because it
was already pasted up, because I had no reason to distrust this fellow trainee,
I signed the card assuming the information on it was correct. During the course
of the day, as I scored this girls target I realized she was not a very good
shot, not good enough to get a qualifying score of 240, however as the days went
by, she continued practicing until she was able to qualify. ON the afternoon when
she finally qualified, the range master and my training advisor called me aside
and told me they had been observing the girl, there was no way she could have made
a passing score, because they had seen most of her shots go into the ground. The
target had been pasted up by that time and I had no way of proving differently.
On May 5, 1974 I was called into the office of the assistant training coord-
inator who made a statement to the effect of --'I have the reports
from the range instructor, who states that there was no possible way this recruit
could obtain such a score.' You obviously gave her extra points to help her pass,
and that is falsification of records. As far as I am concerned I gave you an
assignment, and that was to score someone's target. As far as I am concerned
you failed to carry out the job properly, therefore I feel you are not qualified
to be a police officer. I am terminating you from this academy, and I am making
a recommendation to the public safety department for your dismissal. No matter
how much I tried to explain, that I had done nothing wrong, no matter how much
I pleaded, he simply told me to leave. No copies of such investigation was ever
offered to me for review and they further stated that the psychiatrist had reported
me as having a psychological problem, which problem was never revealed to me. To
the best of my knowledge, the girl was not questioned on the matter, or if she was
they did not make mention of it to me. I might add that she finished the academy
and became a police officer. If I had in fact falsified records, she would have
been equally guilty, also if I had a psychological problem , I should have been
dismissed immediately after the psychological examination, not several weeks later.
I might also add that no polygraph test was given to me, though easily available.
They simply told me to leave and not to try to come back for a couple of years.
At this point in the conversation I mentioned a point of possible theft going on
at the firing range. They added to my termination papers that I had witnessed
a theft and failed to report it, I hadn't made any report of this since it was
only a suspicion I had, and I thought that making an unfounded accusation would
only get me into more trouble. At the time I didn't give much thought to the
impact of my dismissal, except for the disappointment and the hard work going down
the drain. I knew the thief and several officers of Virginia Gardens police department.
I expressed my desire to work for their department, as a result Chief Herns of the
Virginia Gardens Police Dept. contaced the police academy and requested I that be
allowed to finish my training so I could work for his department. The Academy
refused to take me back for the necessary 7 days. In the weeks that followed
I applied the following police departments that had openings at the time, --
Dade County PUblic School security, Opa locks police department, the Miami
23
NOV 2 71974
Reach police department, the S. Miami police department, the Florida University
police department, the Miami Springs police department, Miami Shored police
department, the Dade County corrections department and the City of Miami Polite
department. Here I have letters of rejection of most of these departments because
the police academy stated that i was no good aad they would not take me back
I have here a letter from the City of Opa lock*, where the City of Opa locks
police chief requested the personnel department to remove my name from the
eligibility list for police officer because the academy had advised them I had
been dismissed for lack of alertness in class. I was No. 4 on their list and
the chief never talked to me personally, never even bothered.
Mayor Ferre: On what list?
Mr. Paz: On the eligibility list.
Mrs. Gordon: What chief are you referring to?
Mr. Paz: Opa-locks,-----I applied with the Dade County public schools,
security department, ------at the time I applied, they had 60 openings. They
told me to wait and they would contact me. I am still waiting.
The Florida International University police department told me they
could not hire me because I was not good enough for them. The Chief of Police
at the University teaches at the police academy.
The Miami Shores Village police department told me after I applied that
they,- would not be able to hire me because the academy had some bad things to
say about me. He did not specify as to what they said.
The Miami Springs police department turned me down for the job of radio
dispatcher. I was turned among 3 other applicants and they refused to tell me
why. I was turned down at several other jobs for security work because of my
background with the County.
I applied to Dade County as a correctional officer, --September 9, 1974,
and I took the test and had a score of 89.6 and I was turned down by Mr. Jim
Harris who advised me on the phone that he was unable to hire me because the
academy had some bad things to say about me. They had not only put me out of
law enforcement work but they had smeared my background for the rest of my life.
On August 21, 1974 I took the Civil Service test for the position of
police officer with the City of Miami, along with some 300 applicants. My score
was 97, making me #31 on list. Iwas called in by the City of Miami police
department, at which time I explained the incident that had taken place durning
my employment with the County.
On October 8, 1974 I received a polygraph examination from the City of Miami
police department. I passed it with no problems. On October 9, I took a physical
examination which I also passed with no problems. On October 15 I took a physical
agility test which I failed to pass. I came back two weeks later after having
practiced to try again. This time 3 passed the test. I had now met all the re-
quirements, plus I am bi-lingual, a desirable qualification with the City of Miami
police department. On October 28, I was faced with the City of Miami police department
interview board. When I entered the conference room the only topic of discussion
was my past employment with the Dade County public safety department. They were not
interested in knowing anything about my recommendations. Achievements in the past
didn't mean a thing. All they were concerned about was a report was a report from
the police academy that classified me as undesirable material for the police
department. After all I had gone through, they told me they could not hire me
because of my past employment. They said to come back and re -apply in couple
of years. So my invisions for a career in law enforcement had come to an end.
No one was willing to hire me as a police officer simply because the academy
didn't want me back.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Paz, I want to make this statement, I can document,
Mr. Manager well over a dozen almost identical cases. AS a matter of fact I
had requested after I talked to Mr. Paz, I dug into my record andhave requested
Mr. Andres Perez to show up here. He can't come till this afternoon. Let me tell
you Mr. Perez was a paratrooper in the United States Army with an honorable
discharge, he is a man who went to the academy, he was dismissed for a similar
reason. I sent him over to your office and found that nothing could be done
about it. Let me tell you what this young man went through. He had given up a
good job which I verified with Randall ambulance company, which he could not get
back after, he, -----he is a family man and maintains a family, and he wants to
be a policeman. He was on the auxillary at Hialeah. He subsequently got a job
at Indian Creek Village which everybody knows is a very small, exclusive municipality.
Now, he worked, as I understand it, for three or four months andthe Mayor and the
Chief there were sufficiently impressed with him that they wanted to send him back
to the academy. I want him to tell you the reception he got when he got to the
24.
• t
academy►. He knew full well that every pressure available was going to be
put on his so that he wouldn't make it. He was told that. He showed up
at 3:30 in the morning, did 2 or 3 hours of extra physical Mork, —every
possible pressure was put on his and came through. The final thing was the
exas, and the instructor said there are going to be 150 questions, if you
get 75 m 50%, you can pass. Everybody in the class passed but he, when he
cases and said why didn't I pass, he said you didn't pass the exam. He said
what was my score, and was told the score, and he said may I see my test.
No, sir, those tests have been destroyed. He says he is willing to go before
anybody and take that test over again, because he i6 possitive he passed.
Let me tell you the consequence of that. The man, during the interim, before
he got that job, at Indian Creek Village, tried to apply for over a dozen jobs
in either Metro or the City of Miami, ---he wanted to prove a point. He started
at the highest level and went down to the very lowest, menial job and I forget
whether a laborer, or in the garbage , something considered at the lower level,
----he could not ever be accepted because there was always a letter from the
police academy that he was an undesirable, until he got that job at INdian
Creek. Now, do you know what has happened since the poor fellow went through
that bad experience, he has now been fired by the Indian Creek police department
because of his failure at the academy, and he is out of a job. This happened
this last week, and he will be here to tell you that story, ------
Mr. Paz:I would like to add something else in reference to the discussion
you -------about the curriculum of study down there. I have here a paper which is
a progress evaluation report and this report, there are 12 subjects which were
covered during the periods of March 11 and April 1st . 0f those 12 topics at
the academy, three of those tests were on spelling, the course was entitled
'most common words misspelled by police officers', five of those teats were
conducted in reference to radial codes used during the course of duty on the
streets. One test pertains to the 10 constitutional amendments, and one in the
subject to topography, and only 2 of those 12 tests deals directly with the
working procedures of the police officer on the street, --of 12 examinations
over a major period of studies, only 2 of them pertain to the actual needs of
the police officer on the street.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Paz, could you tell me if you recall how many people were
involved in the class you attended?
Mr. Paz: If I recall, we started out with about 57 and over the first month
we lost about 5.
Mrs. Gordon: Can you recall, somewhat accurately the number of persons
that were of minority groups?
Mr. Paz: Very small, there was myself, and I think one or two other Spanish
speaking fellows, and there were maybe three or four Black persons in the class.
Mra. Gordon: A total of about 8,-----
Mr. Paz: Right, ---
Mrs. Gordon: About 152, more or less, --- -I wasn't exactly clear about
where your problem started, apparently with the range incident.
Mr. Paz: The problem actually started the first time I reacted, the first
time I went down there, and I said here is the problem, that I felt was the
problem, and I wanted to help in having something done about it.
Mayor Ferre: Let me interrupt, I don't want you to be embarrassed because
you happen to be in the public, I want you to tell these people here what you
told me about the class president, the type of words he was using, in talking
to minorities and tell it like it is, like you told me.
Mr. Paz: Some periods of time, there will be such words as 'niggeror
'spice used amoung the classmates, --
Mrs. Gordon: By the president?
Mayor Ferre: --by the president, ----
Mr. Paz: --yes, at times,-
25
NOV 2 71974
•
Mrs. Gordon: The president addressed the classmates by that terminology?
Mr. Paz: Right, and there were other arguments in class and they didn't
want him up there as president.
Mrs. Gordon: May I ask who selected the president?
Mr. Pas: The faculty appointed him and the students requested they did
not want him as president, that they wanted to hold an election and elect
the person they wanted, and they totally refused. They said we had to accept
this gentleman that was being offered to us.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, in page 29, the LEAA grant report, a program
narrative, I want to read into the record the following statement, this is
from the admininstration itself, --'the community of the City of Miami's is uniquely
misrepresented in the public and police department. The existing racial population
with police representation is 522 Hipanic residents, represented by 62 of the
Spanish police officers, 23% Black residents represented by approximately 122
Black police officers and 22% white native born of native parentage residents,
by 822 white native born of native parentage police officers.
Now, I read previously the federal mandate in the Cohen case from the
federal district court, which specifically spoke to that and we all know we
are under mandate. Is this the way to recruit Spanish speaking minority, ---is
this what we have to go through and is this what, not only Mr. Paz, but Mr.
Perez and these are the ones that have come to me, and God knows how.•many of
these people have had to go through this who I have no knowledge of.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, may I ask a few more questions.?
,eMayor Ferre: Please, Mrs. Gordon, -----
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Paz, your problem started then because you felt the
system that was being used was improper, the selection of a president, therefore
Mr. Paz:--right,---
Mrs. Gordon: --therefore you, more or less singled yourself out as being
someone wanting some kind of organization to take place,--
Mr.Paz: Correct.
Mrs. Gordon: --and you think this led to your ultimate dismissal?
Mr. Paz: Yes, mam,--
Mks. Gordon: However, had you completed your course, you would not
have been employed by the City of Miami, you would have been with the Dade
County Public Safety personnel, is that correct?
Mr. Paz: Yes, Dade County public safety department.
Mrs. Gordon: And the reason that I stress that was because the Mayor
is pointing out a valid point that we are short of minority representation,
but you would not have added to our minority representation. You would have
been with Dade County, -
Mayor Ferre: He subsequently came back to the City of Miami.
Rev. Gibson: The City is carrying out its obligation, --why is it that
the City didn't take some affirmative action. You know Mr. Andrews, that is
very important. It seems to me somebody should have told the City, ---let me
ask you, did you write that narrative yourself?
Mr.Paz: Yes, I did,
Rev. Gibson: That sounds like an intelligent man, who wants to be on
the police force. I don't know,what you are looking for, but I am tell ing
you he writes a lot better than a lot of guys, even in ministry. We go 4 years
in college, three years in the seminary, I am concerned if you are talking about
intelligence, and today in 1974, apparently that is what you are looking for, ---
26 NOV 2 71974
011111i11111111111111111111111111
I am no psychologist, so I can't deal with that, but let me make another
obeer'vation. You know, I told my young people, that even to get a job sweeping
the Min within 5 years, you are going to have to come up with an associate
degree. That man would put the average college graduate, if that is his narrative
l#r. Lloyd, you will hale to admit this, ----put the average college graduate
to shame.
Mr. Lloyd: Yes, sir, --
Rev. Gibson: You know, we are looking for a Chief, and you are talking
about upgrading the department and all of that, it seems to me that is the kind
of brain we ought to be looking for. I thought we ought to put all that on the
table.
Mr. Paz: I would like to add one final comment, I am now working for
a company Colter Electronics, it is very large electronic comapny in the
security department and the man who is in charge of the security department
spent 18 years with the public safety department. I can give you his phone
number and you can call him as ask him, what he has to say, as to my performance
on the job.
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Plummer:
the rule, is that
is that correct?
tunaslillo
Thank you very much for taking your time.
Sir, you readily admit that you broke an infraction of
correct? By certifying a score which you did not observe,
You certified a score which you did not see?
Mr. Paz: I put my signature to the, ----
Mr. Plummer: You should have observed if it were the regular course.
Mr. Paz: Yes, sir, ----
Mr. Plummer: I heard about all the other departments, and not that I am
not appreciative of your bringing this out, but as you must understand, I am
concerned with the City of Miami. You understand that? I would like to ask
Mr. Neil Garfield to come up.
Mr. Garfield would you state what your position is with the City of Miami?
Swear him in, -----
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Garfield, my question
to you is this, sir,
Mayor Ferre: Let me be very clear, J.L.---I don't know what kind of
court actions may come out of this thing, and I think everybody here who
testifies, and a lot of times, we testify and unless they are sworn in, this
matter, as I understand it Mr. Lloyd cannot be pursued later on, if there should
be something to pursue. I am just saying that is Why we want everybody sworn in.
Mr. Lloyd City Attorney: They should be sworn in, your Honor. Read the
Lt. the warning as a matter of procedure.
Mr. Ron Silver, Asst. City Attorney : You are advised that any information
that ,you give in the interest of the questions by this committee, may be the
subject of a displinary proceeding by the Civil Service Board if such facts in-
dicate a violation of the Civil Service Board. You understand that sir?
Mr. Garfield: Yes, air, ---
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Garfield, or Lt. we, of course, two years ago turned
our academy over to a unified system. What control does the City of Miami
Police department at this time retain, if an incident, right or wrongfully
such as what has been described here, a man which we send to the academy, we
qualify to send to the academy, is bailed out of the academy, do we retain
any control, ------to say we don't think you did right by our man. In other
words, have we just, when we turned everything over to the academy , did we
carte blanc say to the academy, it is all yours, or if in care a man is bailed
out of the academy, and he has a legitimate complaint, that he can come back to
you or somebody in the city of Miami, and say, they picked on me, if it is legitimate,
do you have any recourse to the academy to get him reinatated, do you have any other
academy to send him to, what are we doing, what is our posture?
Mt. Garfield: We have training advisors assigned to the police academy,
27
NOV 2 ? 1974
11111111i I 111111111111110111111iiil
uno MI 111111
it
at the Criminal Justice INstitute, that are police officers and supervisors,
we have a Sgt. in charge there. Any time any of our people have any questions
WI to any action that is taken up them, to contact our advisors and it is
generally settled there, and we do not terminate anybody from the academy
unless our advisors concur that that is the proper action and our advisors
will relate any failings or any in -put to either my office or to Capt Reese
or Chief Pox who is the administrative line of the department.
Mr. Plummer: Do I understand you to say that at all times, we the
city of Miami have a representative there present?
Mr. Garfield: We have them assigned, the classes are spread out, and
I don't know the breakdown as to how many of our advisors we have, if any
in all of the classes, but we do have police officers and have one sergeant
assigned full time to the academy.
Mr. Plummer: Has it in time, any of these alleded irregularities of
cadets been brought to your attention, -----
Mr. Garfield: Yes it has,
Mr. Plummier: ----and what have you done about it.
Mr. Garfield: We had an investigation into the facts and we worked along
with Mr. Andrews on the one that I was personally involved with.
Mr. Plummer: I am not taking about an individual case. What I think we
are trying to establish, is this a general accepted way of doing business
up there, or is it a rare incident, or what is,--- we don't know, do you, -
Mr. Garfield: First of all this young man was not a member of the
Miami Police department, ----
Mr. Plummer: We understand that,
Mr. Garfield: --our training advisors would not have received any
in -put on it.
Mr. Plummer: I am speaking in general now, not to an individual,
Mr. Garfield: In general our training advisors are supposedly being
given the input to any discrepancy or any dismissal before it is done, and
they will concur_and go right on up the line from them up to the Chief.
Mr. Plummer: The only problem that I see that this gentleman had with
the City of Miami, I would like you to address yourself to, that he was put
through the time and expense of not only his own but yours, and the department
and the City, of going through the procedures of taking a written exam, taking
a polygraph, taking the physical, agility, which are all time-consuming. Now
why does the department put him through all this, without first getting this
recommendation. As I understand it, if you had had the recommendation of the
school first, you would have never put him through that, right?
Mr. Garfield: No, sir. We'd investigate it further, and then make
our decision at that point. We felt that to have the oral interview panel
investigated, and give their recommendation, there you had three police types
sitting on the board and we accepted their recommendation on this.
Mr. Plummer: But doesn't it seem like that in cases where a man has
been in law enforcement, or been through the academy, that you would find
out why he was bailed out before you put him through the rest of the city's
procedures?
Mr. Garfield: That would be the props way. In this case we did not do it.
Rev. Gibson: Let me ask a question. Th t bothers me, because we build up
a lot of hopes for people, that they never realize. I can speak for Blacks,
that has happened to Black folk for all along, --you take them through that pace,
and he thinkgs he, I an about to get a little of it, then all of a sudden,
boos. Let me raise another question, I hope that nothing that we turn over,
whether to the county or anybody else, you and I as city people have the
28 NOV 271974
responsibility to play back to any system we lave, what is happening to
the people of the city of Miami. I don't understand if you have LEAA money,
and I know a little about that, why is it that you aren't on top of this
business, Mr: Andrews, and continually say to these people, --Hialeah has a
different problem to us, whatever that Garden is, has a different proble to
us, Coral Gables has a different problem, --you heard the percentage of population
density we have, you ought to get about the business, and stay on top of the
problem, and I am concerned about it.
Mayor Ferre: Lt. Garfield let me ask you a question, as I understand
----we in the last couple of years since the academy started, 90 cadets have
come out and on our police department.
Mr. Garfield: That is right, approximately 100 went into it, and we
still have approximately 37 so a difference of 137,----37 is still in training
right now.
Mayor Ferre: In the last year, 12 or 13 months, roughly, is it 40 or 50,--
Mr. Garfield: Around 50,-----
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you, if we were following the mandate of the
United States Federal District Court, in spirit, not the letter, but in spirit,
isn't it safe to assume that if we are mandated in 5 years, to represent the
community, that there should be some kind of reasonable pattern being followed
as to the cadets, to the proportion. Let me ask you out of a hundred or so, how
many are Black and how many are Latins?
Mr. Garfield: In the period of Oct. 1, 1973 to Nov. 15 1974 we placed
a total of 115 recruits in the academy. 0f them, they were broken down as
follows: 66 were white, 20 black and 29 Spanish. Those of that 115 that are
still in training, or have graduated, are 86 in number, which is broken down
55 white, 12 black and 19 Spanish.
Mayor Ferre: So, in neither case is near the proportion of 52, 23, 25,
it is not near that?
Mr. Garfield: No.
Mr. Andrews:Mr. Mayor, remember they have to work with the candidates
that are turned over to them by the Civil Service.
Mayor Ferre: I understand. I am just pointing this out, and I want to
repeat. I am using 3 sources for my astatement. I think they are important enough
to repeat, one, the federal mandate, two, Jacob's report which I have read, three,
this internal document of the City of Miami on the LEAA grant.
Mr. Plummer: Are you happy with the way the school is operated, as far
as what the City of Miami's interests are involved.
Mr. Garfield: I could speak personally in my own opinion.
Mr. Plummer: We are going to ask you, to report, not to me, but I want
you to report to the Manager, and I think the sooner the better as to why
you don't think it operating properly, and I think it behooves this Manager
and the department heads to investigate what you have reported back to them,
and either get this thing straightened out or lets go back to our own academy.
Mayor Ferre: I think there is a key question. You say your personal
opinion is you are not satisfied, have you expressed that opinion?
Mr. Garfield: Yes, it has been expressed to Chief Garmire.
Mayor Ferre: Has the Chief expressed it to you? How long have
you been conscious of that Mr. Andrews?
Mr. Andrews: I would say this came about, and you can help me with time,
because it was you who brought to my attention, Perez who was one of three at
that time, and that would have been June or July, when I became fully aware
that the department had serious concerns about the way the academy was operating.
29
NOV 2 71974
f hill el moo 11111111111111111i
Mayor Ferre: This was June of 1974,----I might point out that
in my opinion I am still not satisfied with the answers on either Pena
Cueto, or Perez. I'll be happy to give you the file that t have. Those
are just three cases, that I happen to have gone into in more detail than
the others because I think there have been some injustices made ----
Mr. Andrews: And I am throughly acquainted with those three cases,
Mr. Mayor because that the area the Lt. was referring to when he said
investigative work he did in conjunction with the
Mayor Ferre: And that is a basic point that I wanted to bring out,
I am glad you put it that way and I am glad the Lt. made it. I don't think
that these matters should be coming up because the Mayor or somebody on the
Commission brings them out and points them out. These are the things that should
be flowing up from within the organization and they should be•addressed by the
department. We should be having this hearing.
Mrs. Gordon: Is that to assume there has been no corrective work attempted
by the, ----
Mayor Ferre: Lt. Garfield Made a statement a little while ago when he
said that the one he was involved with, and immediately the light went on,
and I was assuming that you were talking about the Perez case, he is three.
Haven't you been involved in any others?
Mr. Garfield: No,sir,----
Mr. Plummer: Lieutenant, a three -member board, policemen, sit to do
the personal interviews, is that correct?
Mr. Garfield: That is correct, --
Mr. Plummer: If you reject a man at that time, at the personal interview,
is there any review above that?
Mr. Garfield: Yes, I review their recommendations, and that is far as it
goes.
Mr. Plummer: Do you have the authority to over -turn that recommendation?
Mr. Garfield: I have never used it. I believe I do, what we have done in the
past when there was doubt, we have set up another board with different individuals
on it.
Mr. Plummer: The questions that are used, I would like to have a copy
of. I assume there is a basic set of pattern of questions for interviews.
Can you tell me, --a man came to me that wanted to come here and testify, --
his contention was, he was rejected by the personal interview because he
was divorced. Is that a reason?
Mr. Garfield: No, sir, --
Mr. Plummer: Would that be one of the reasons?
Mr. Garfield: It could, it could show the man's stability, and his
responsibility.
Mr. Plummer: Just because he is divorced is not reason for rejection?
Mr. Garfield: No, sir. Every case is weighed individually.
Rev. Gibson: I want to tell you that is my line. You can't use that
because sometime you are divorced because you don't like the color of the hair,
so you had better lay-off of that divorce thing.
Let me make another observation, I hope you get a message that I keep hearing
like a bell ringing, and I hope the people who work for the city get this message.
The police department just happens to be one department. I hope all of the departments
in the city get a message that if we don't take some affirmative action and stand
up, all of these departments are going to be taking us to court. Mr. Mayor you
realize that, they could all take us to court, and we need to say to everybody,
3U NOV 271974
look, get about your business, you've got to take people by the hand
and get this thing done, and we need to be saying to all of the departments,
all, this is no More a private club, this is what I hope we can get across.
Mayor Ferre: As you said before it is a lot more than just tell, ----
we have to see that this gets done.
Mr. Plummer: Let me conclude, Mr. Manager I hope, that this man has
taken up his time to come here and let's say have the stamina to stand up
and tell it as he sees it, I am hoping that you will investigate into this
particular case, not that maybe today he wants to be a policeman, but
so that we can be better informed. Is in fact, the review, personal review,
turned him down based solely on the recommendations, I think it behooves you
to tell us, that that personnel group that interview him did go into the fact
at the college or at the school, and if they felt there was some basis or there
was no basis, this is why I say this is an investigating type of situation.
I personally think Mr. Manager of the 3 cases which I brought up this morning,
I think we should hear the other side, because Just the man standing up there
-----this is no reflection on you sir, just because a man is standing up here
making accusations doesn't necessarily mean that it is true. That is his side
of the story. Now, if this is an investigating group, let's investigate, and
we turned that over to you three weeks ago, in those two particular cases. and
I think we demand an answer. I am hoping you will do it in this case.
Mayor Ferre: I think that is a very valid point, but I keep repeating
Mr. Andrews that you can only judge by results and the numbers we have heard
here today in my opinion, would verify that there are many other cases like
Mr. Paz's. Now, we just brought out one case here. I don't know whether it is
trhe or not, as I keep repeating. We are only bringing out one side, but I think
it is enough smoke to assure us there has to be some heat somewhere, and it ought
to be further investigated. I can give you another dozen cases, but I don't think
that that really is my function, and it shouldn't have to be, and Lt. Garfield
shouldn't be investigating three cases because the Mayor brought it out. He
should be investigating a dozen cases because the system, and the administration
brings it out, and that is the key point, that is what I really want to get into.
It's not this man's particular problem, with all due respect to him to me that
is secondary. The main thing is how does the system function. Are we complying
with the mandate, and we complying with the spirit of the mandate. Are we doing
everything that is possible. Are we being fair, are we being just, are we applying
common sense, ro are we letting, like the Jacob's report says,that it is difficult
for the department itself to do it, are we being as vigorous as we can in following
up these discrepancies.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor I have to say this, because this is something
that came very clear to me after the last hearing this commission had. We
are allowing people to stand up here, and this is not to your particular
cases, this is to the cases that happened before, and Mr. Mayor through the
media of this television and the writers from the papers, we are letting the
public form opinions that are putting our policemen down damn bad. Now I think
if these particular cases which the media are using, to put our policemen down,
I they demand investigation, they should be brought out, and if they are true,
then by God, let's put them down, and if they are not true, let's tell the public
that these are cases that are totally unfounded. And I think that has got to be
done in fairness to these policemen who are out here doind a damn fine job, for
the few rotten apples we are going to have to get rid of, I say 'we', ---the
Manager, but I think by God, we have to bring out to the same public who are
hearing allegation from a certain few, that these cases, yes, we had investigated
which is the sole purpose of this commission sitting here, they are true and we
are going to do something about them, or they are not true and here are the facts
that says that this guy is not standing up here telling the truth, and here is
another side of the story. So Mr. Mayor I can't agree with you that we are only
going to expose these facts because based on these exposure of certain facts,
through the media, the public is forming an opinion which I personally don't
feel.
Mayor Ferre: J. L., we get along fine, and sometimes you say don't speak
for Plummer, let me tell you, don't put words in my mouth, and I want to make
it abundantly clear, and I am going to repeat it, this is about the loth time
I've had to say this, this is not a court, I am not a judge, this is not a jury,
I am not a prosecutor, I am not the State Attorney, all we are doing here is
pointing out areas of potential problems. I am not condemning, I am not judging,
;� NOV 2 71974
1 am bringing out areas of problems. That is up to the Mancger to answer
them, if he wants to do it publicly, that is fine and 1 completely agree,
and I made in my opening statement when Officer Wright wrote me, I think he
is entitled to be heard, but I want to repeat that tt.at was not the thrust
---the thrust of what I am trying to point out is tte parameter of problem
areas that exist, not that they are right or wrong, not that this particular
case merits a condemnation or a judgement. That is not out job, but there
are questions, as far as Mr. Paz is concerned, he is one of many, he brings
out areas of question. 1 question what is going on in the police academy
because if his testimony and a dozen like him I have talked to, that doesn't
mean he is right, I don't know whether this man is lying or not. It is not
for me to judge that, and it is not for anybody here to make that judgement
but there are two things we have to base our opinion on, one results, and
the other thing is the record and the pattern that repeats itself, and I
conclude that in this particular item the results speak for themselves. We
Have not got the proportion of minority policemen we are under mandate to
get over the past 13 months, No. 1., that speaks for itself. I can only
go on the end results. I am not judging his case, it is not up to me to
judge the case, but to bring out these problems we have to use some tools,
and the only tool I see available, ---I am not trying to say, Lieutenant,
that this man's cause is right. This is the only way I can bring this out
in the public to show that I think there is some smoke coming out of this,
and you really have to look at it. The main thrust of this is not that we
have to look at it, but that this should be within your system that you ought
to be looking at it. You ought to have very clear answers. We shouldn't have
to bring this thing up.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor the only point I was trying to bring, is this
very simply, based on th0 testimony of certain individuals here before, if
these questions, these allegations go unanswered, the public which we serve
can only draw one conclusion, trtat they were right, because nobody refuted.
I am saying, as we sit here, as an investigative body I think it behooves us
whether it is through our own investigation, or hopefully through that of the
management, that these allegations, must be answered, and I am at a loss, --when
I say a loss, that three weeks have passed, and we have not had any interim
final, --or any report whatsoever, on the allegations that were made on November 6,
and I think Mr. Manager it behooves you, for the sake of the good members of this
department to bring out and in the same way that we have been accused of airing
the dirty linens, in fact, this linen isn't so dirty, you've got to let it be
known, and that is the only way the public, who forms opinions can be truthfully
informed and even we, be truthfully informed. So I am hoping Mr. Manager, that
as soon as possible that you will come forth with reports on these alleged
allegations, because this is the only way that I see this investigation is
going to accomplish what needs to be accomplished. We have already done some,
and we are going to bring out others today, so I just plead with you to bring
out those sides of the facts.
Mayor Ferre: All right, are there any other questions of Mr. Paz? If not,
thank you sir, and whose next? Officer Rodriguez, ----
Let's take a 5 minute break, and try please to keep it to 5 minutes.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Ernest Rodriguez, I know you have a back problem, so
we want to get done with your testimony quickly .
Mr. Manager would you send someone out to put order out there, --if
they want to talk, tell them to get outside.
Officer Ernesto Rodriguez: I am Officer Ernesto Rodriguez, City of Miami
police department, 1145 N.W. llth Street,
Mr. Ron Silver, Asst. City Attyorney: Let me advise you that any information
that you may give in the interest to the questions by this committee, may be the
subject of disciplinary proceeding by the Civil Service Board, if such facts
indicate a violation of the Civil Service rules. You understand that sir?
Officer Rodriguez: I do.
Mayor Ferre: I think Officer Rodriguez, the best thing is for you to
make whatever statement you want to make then we will ask you some questions.
Officer Rodriguez: I believe first of all tht the City of Miami police
department is perhaps, --the personnel in it, --will be one of the best in the
32 NOV 2 71974
United States and they will have nothing to fear, of they could be stuck up
against any other department in the nation. I also believe that we do have
problems, that there is a question, which is evident in morale, there is
definite lack of guidance and that perhaps has created this morale problem.
The men the department even !:hough all this has been going on, this instability
has been performing their duties, their jobs, to the best of their ability. I
am proud to be a member of the City of Miami police department and I am here
and I will do my utmost to clear any questions in anyone's mind, I do believe
this problem could be resolved here in the City, the guidance that we might
get will bring us policemen together and we will better be able to serve the
community, because when one has problems, their mind is occupied, then the
service that he is rendering, he is not given 100% and this is the case in
the City of Miami police department. I also think that if we are able to be
able to be -to any other department in the United States, with
our problems, how well we could help the City if we are able to eliminate
or alleviate substantially this problem.
Mayor Ferre: Officer Rodriguez, you and I talked within this last week.
I called you and told you I was going to subpoena you and that I was going to
ask you some questions on the record, and told you, you were under the law
and under the Civil Service regulations, obligated to come here, and speak.
Officer Rodrigues: Yes sir.
Mayor Ferre: I asked you some questions that I told you were going to
have to answer today. One was for example about records. I want you to repeat
on the record what you told me about the records within the city of Miami
police department. I might say that we are going to be getting into the records
department later on this afternoon. The only reason I have asked Officer Rod-
riguez to speak to us now is because he has a problem with his back and can't
stand up too long, and he is off duty right nw because of that and he can't
take that physical pressure. Co ahead and make your statement,
Officer Rodriguez: Our record is suffering, there is some technical problems
a great deal of organizational problem is nothing that has assisted now,
as a matter of fact this was evident from the time I came into the department, to
get any information sometimes it becomes a pain in the neck, ---people have to
stand there and wait for hours to get any type of attention. In some cases,
the employees that are working in the department are not polite to say the least,
this is not of course reflected'on all the employees but there are some that
are not the type of employees, -----will give a good impression of the City of
Miami police department. The efficiency I don't think will be considered as good,
I will say it is poor, the last time I was there as a matter of fact it was a
little and from the time that I joined the department I haven't seen
a very efficient running record department in the cit of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: This is your personal opinion?
Officer Rodriguez:This is my personal opinion.
Mayor Ferre: in your opinion, do the other fellow officers you work
with feel the same way? Or is this your opinion alone?
Officer Rodriguez: I talked to a lot of officers and some of them have
gripes about the records, this is the problem when are out on the field and
we are asking for a records check, from our records that is usually, --unless the
computers in other departments in the field or whatever, are out,
it takes the longest and insome cases you have to let a subject go because
you cannot hold them forever.
Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, I think it is important to point out
that you have previously heard testimony from Mr. Phillip Knight who is the
attorney for the insurance company on claims. Specifically pointing out that
in comparison to, the City of Ft. Lauderdale, in comparison to Metropolitan Dade
County and other police departments that that office handles, that there is a
3 NOV 271974
significant difference itt the completion of records that he receives from
the City of Miami in cases that he is handling. I think the importance of
Officer Rodriguez's statement here, I want to make this statement on the
record, here we have an officer and, true, it is one opinion out of thousands
that we could bring here and as Mr. Plummer has pointed out, there may be
others that feel differently.This is just one opinion, just like Mr. Knight
is just one opinion, but in his opinion as we heard, we do not have good record
keeping facilities within the department.
Mr.Plummer: Mr. Mayor I brought out here and I thought maybe by bringing
it out once before it would have eliminated the problem, but let me tell you
what happened to me personal*. And I think it will back up what he is having
to say. You might recall that'I told you of an incident where my funeral home
was broken into. For insurancpurposes I went to the police department, and I
asked for a copy of the report. We had all this equipment where all you had to
do was sign your name, address and these instant machines to give you back the
report. I am still waiting .
Mrs. Gordon: How long?
Mr. Plummer: When did I bring it out before Paul, about a month ago,
about 2 months ago that I requested the report and its has been about three
or four months ago when the incident happened. I went over there, I filled out
all the proper forms, requested a reportso I could furnish it to my insurance
com pany, and still today waiting for the report. I don't have it.
Mrs. Gordon: I got my report very quickly.
Mr. Plummer: It exemplifies the fact, ----it has happened to me
personally Paul.
Mayor Ferre: I think the point is, if this happens to a commissioner,
then what can an ordinary expect in this type of thing.
Mr.Plummer: I hope you are right.
Mayor Ferre: Phil Knight, when I went to visit with'him at his office
had a stack of the last cases, and as I stated before, amazed at the
number of cases in those files where the statement was made , I think by
Maj. McLaughlin who is in charge of this, no records available on this case.
How in the world , and I said, Phil is that true that there was no incident.
He said no, absolutely not, what happens is, that the records, they just can't
find them, but does that mean there was no incident? 0 no, there are plenty
of incidents that occured but they just don't keep records.
Mr. Plummer: There is another point being missed here that Officer
Rodriguez didn't say. You are speaking to one area, he is speaking to
another. You are speaking to the area of the records kept by internal
security, he is talking about, if I am not mistaken , the records bureau
where checks are run, where reports are filed, which is an entirely different
area of the department. There are two separate departments. Am I correct in
that?
Mayor Ferre: I understand, the point is these are record keeping functions
within the city of miami police department and all I am trying to bring out
once again, is testimony from people that claim and feel there are problems
in the record keeping function of a police department, but the point is obvious.
How do we function unless we have proper records.
Mrs Gordon: Mr. Mayor may I make a statement? Everything seems to be
being brought out that is pessimistic, and everything that we try to say
that isn't, is brushed aside. I had a robbery in my home in July. I got records.
I even got a follow up on it that I didn't request, within a month or six weeks
later, letting me know the status, and the persons who broke into my home were
picked up. They happened to be juveniles, and they were sent to State school.
I was informed when they were being released from State school, and etc. and
I want to commend, ------at I don't think I was given any partial treatment. I
think I was treated as a citizen in this case and I think the police did a good
job as far as they could go. They were dealing with juveniles. My gripe has nothing
to do with this hearing, --these juveniles disposed with a great amount of my
valuablea for a small amount of money and I think our police ought to address
34
NOV 2 71974
themselves finding out Who these fences are, that are taking the merchandise
it sight cut the crime rate a little bit. That is a little bit off our subject.
I want to point that out, as far as the records are concerned I was informed,
and a follow up report was given to me, and my insurance received what they
needed to get and I didn't have any problems along those lines.
Mr. Plummer: I am happy for you.
Mayor Ferre: Are there other question to be asked of Officer Rodriguez?
Do you have any other questions?
Mr. Plummer: Nb.
Mayor Ferre: Do you want to make any other further statements. Do you
want to take about anything else, any other departments, you want to refer to?
Officer Rodriguez: I wanted to say that perhaps with guidance and leadership
and organization that our depiertment will function like people want it function,
near to 100%. We do need the cooperation of the citizens, we want to put our house
in order, we want to leave thi3 polarization that is taking place in the city of
MIami police department, which is not a united police department, 100% united,
and I believe we want to get the confidence of the citizens of the City of Miami
in order that they will cooperate with us 100% and we as policemen, assure everyone
that even though there, like ►ou say, some rotten apples, the majority of the men
want to do their utmost to serve the citizens of the city of MIami.
Mayor Ferre: From what I gathered from Officer Rodriguez' statement
about morale problems, he said lack of guidance, --you see Mrs. Gordon, there
is no question there are a lot of good things in the police department. There
are a lot of possitive things that do happen. What concerns me is, when officer
Rodriguez says that he is worried about the lack of proper guidance, now he
said that all along, that he was the only voice that was saying that, then he
would conclude, well, this is jusa biased opinion. I want to read from Sir
John Waldren's report of October 1972, and this was the former head of Scotland
Yard who can here and looked at the Miami Police department. I read from
page 2 under methods of policing, and status of patrolmen, and he says "From
what I have seen there is excellent material amonst the patrol officers" which
is what you are saying,"but they desperately need leadership, initiative and
advice from above" -----there is a renowned international expert saying the same
thing that Officer Rodriguez is saying. Here is the Jacob's report, again from
August 1972, since Mrs. Gordon has talked a while with good reason about the
police. foundation. This is the police foundation report, in section B,State
of Discipline and Morale, this study did not undertake any assessment of morale
in the police department, however, in the course of the study the team talked
with many officers who expressed their own levels of morale, seldom was that
level high enough for effective police work, so those are two examples, and we
can go on into all of these other reports and bring out statements that are
similar to what Officer Rodriguef: made today. Are there eny other questions
of Mr. Rodriguez?
I am going to skip around a little bit here with apologies to Officer
Kowalski and Sgt. Salerno, and the reason is that Mr. Courtney Sickeloff
may have to go back to Atlanta, and then I am going to ask Chief Don Hickman
to speak because they are related and Jesse, ----my apologies to you, then
we may have to go back to Kowalski and Salerno before we get to you. I might
point out that I've tried very carefully to guide this thing so that this is
not strictly a racial thing, or a minority's problem. That is why I wanted
Officer Kowalski and Officer Rodriguez to address themselves to other areas
because I don't want this to be, --last time we were accused of consentrating
too much on excessive force and alleged abuse. This time I don't want us to
be accused of consentrating too much on a minority recruitment and civil
rights even though that is obviously a main thrust of this particular meeting.
So at this time I'll+ask Mr. Courtney Sickeloff, equal opportunity specialist
southern regional office Atlanta, of the United States Commission on Civil Rights.
Mr. Courtney Siceloff: I am Courtney Siceloff, 934 Waverly Way, Atlanta, Ga.
Mr. Ron Silver: What is your official title, sir?
N0V271974
•
Mr. Siceloff: 1 am equal opportunity specialist, field representative
for the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights.
Mr. Silver: How long have you been employed in that capacity?
Mr. Siceloff: A little over a year.
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me. Mr. Siceloff for midpronouncing you name. I am
not too good a Slovic names. I have here, which I am going to give to you,
a statement which was taken down by an assistant of mine, on October 11, 1974
at the University of Miami, Ash Building, where the Florida Advisory Board
to the U.S. Commission of Civil Rights was meeting. On page 2, and I am going
to strike that particular thing, because I think that is really the heart of
this matter. It reads as follows, 'as of Oct. 1, 1974 there are 80 Blacks,
a gain of 2 over a year, and a loss of 1 from May 1974 figures. In our conver-
staions, the court order does not appear to have solved the problems of these
internal relations' ---it is very important, --two assistant chiefs feel particularly
or practically, that the City Manager has the responsibility, in other words,
for the application of the federal mandate. One of these, does not sense a com-
mitment nor an urgency of the situation in these chiefs. They are not very
familiar with the court order, and not sure that Spanish officer would be
recruited in proportion of the population but the suppose so. Would you elaborate
on that?
Mr. Siceloff: Yes, I'd like to preface it by a statement that this
meeting which the minutes were taken, had to do with a re -chartered advisory
committee to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, we have a new committee
made up of 18 persons and this is the first meeting and the meeting was an
orientation of what their responsibilities were of that committee, as well as
to indicate some areas of study that they might engage in. I only spend a few
days here in the city looking into to two primary areas, very large areas, and
they were only preliminary conversations that I had with anyone involved. One
was bi-lingual in education and the other happened to community relations.
These conversations I had were I want to emphasize, preliminary without a great
deal of background investigation only to indicate to the committee what areas
they might look into not as a result of through investigation. I did have an
opportunity for brief conversations with the acting and assistant Chiefs, the
police Chief was out of the country at that time, they were very cooperative
in what material they gave to se. I would question one transcribed word,
there, they feel practically that the city manager, ---I think I meant to
say if I didat say it, correctly, because it is spelled out in the order
that the City Manager does have that responsibility for implementing the
court order. I did ask a question as I recall, in our conversations with the
assistant chiefs whether anyone within their department had a particular
responsibility for implementing their phase of it, and I understood their
answer to say that there was no such person, that had been allocated that
responsibility. It was within the City Manager's responsibility. These were
impression I gave of our conversation that, yes, they *ere familiar with the
order, was not aware that they were familiar with all the details of the order
and it appeared to them that Spanish quota would be involved as well as that
of the Black officers which was very definitely spelled out.
Mayor Ferre: You mean there was some confusion on their part as to.whether
or not the Spanish was part of this?
Mr.Siceloff: No, I was not clear in reading the copy of the order that
I had, whether Spanish people were included and raise that question with them
and their assumption was that it was, they were included. But the confusion
I guess, was on my part, not on theirs.
Mayor Ferre: I am glad you corrected it, because the statement that
was made here, is of course, just the opposite, they are not very familiar
with the court order and not sure,spanish officers would be rercuited in proportion
to the population but they suppose so. You say that was really not the way it
happened.
Mr. Siceloff: The way .I saw the order, and I wasn't quite clear from what
you were reading this morning, maybe we had different copies, that it spells
out about the Black recruitment and then I think there is a phrase that other
minorities will be recruited in the same manner, or be treated in a similar
canner. My question to them was, did this in a similar manner imply that there
Mould have to be, around 52% Spanish speaking in the city, be that level within,----
36 NOV 271974
41,
Mayor Ferre: Let's stop at this point and ask the Manager, Mr. Manager,
is there any doubt about what the court order weans?
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor, I don't think that is a fair question. Let me
tell you why, when this came about, I was the one who forcefully told this
commission that we should not use this court order as someone looking over
our shoulder to achieve what I believe was morally proper. This is on the
record, I even indicated, -
Mayor Ferre: This statement here, from what I read is that Mr. Siceloff
said that the administration, that means the true assistant police chiefs
that he talked to were not clear on what that order meant, and I am asking
you, the administration, we can ask the two assistant chiefs whether there is
any doubt.
Mr. Andrews: Absolutely no doubt. I don't believe they have any doubt.
There was one area of confusion that might raise some doubt and that was
a point dhortly before the arrival of this commission in which there was
a changing of role, when you recall that I as City Manager took the position
without asking for interpretation from the City Attorney, took a rather strong
and autocratic position that the Manager was going to see that all these things
were done and I was beginning to give myself up for that role. The City Attorney
advised the Commission later by memorandum, indicating that the Manager was merely
care -taker and he was responsible of reporting to the court the actions taken by
the city and each individual agency including Civil Service who has responsibility
under ordinance for the recruitment of this city was to fulfill their role.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Manager I want to make sure the record reflects, and I
want to correct so there is no question about it, that I, in my asking my question
to you, I was not speaking to you as the administrator unilaterally , but you as
the administration, because the statemen: here is that two assistant chiefs were
not clear. Now, Mr. Siceloff has corrected that, he says that perhaps what he
meant to say, he wasn't clear, that is completely different statement from the
statement that was made. When I read that,that concerned me, and I am double checking
to make sure there is no confustion about the court mandate on this. It does include
all minorities.
Mr. Siceloff: Yes, sir, and I want to say too, that the fact they were
aware of the court order, I don't want to leave that impression, again I was
relaying my impressions to the advisory committee when I reported on this. I
just didn't have the feeling that they had the details of the court order nor
the implication that was involved in trying to achieve this, within a limited
period of time.
Mayor Ferre: Did that imply as I read in this statement, that was the
implication here that you felt that the assistant chief should be knowledgeable
with the court order?
Mr. Siceloff: In
that there had been no
wise of Blacks after 1
not someone within the
their responsibilities
looking at the which they gave me, to show
improvement within the increase of employment percentage
year of 5 year term, I was surprised that there was
police department, the agency who might ride herd on
within this.
Mayor Ferre: In all fairness, you didn't have an opportunity to talk
to the Chief, perhaps the Chief was the one, ------
Mr. Siceloff: Our conversations were only about 20 minutes long, with
both of them, we both had tight appointments.
Mayor Ferre: I want to repeat this statement that you made here, and
I want for the record see if it was an accurate statement,"One does not sense
a sense of commitment nor urgency of the situation in these chiefs", did you
make that statement?
Mrs. Siceloff: Based on just what I said, --no one was appointed within
the agency, I came to that conclusion that I, ---and the records, the one year,
within the 5 year period, I made that conclusion.
Mayor Ferre:This is a 20 minute conversation, it was a preliminary
thing and not an in-depth investigation, we all understand that, this is
a subjective opinion of a man who does not, ----who is not, completely aware
NOV 271974
of all of the problems, I know that,this is a one-sided view, there is no
question. I want to repeat that. I want to make sure that that was the statement
you made, ----
Mr. Siceloff: That was the conclusion I came to after the conference
Mayor Ferre: Do you stand on that conclusion at this point.
Mr. Siceloff: Yes, ----
Mayor Ferre:You still feel that way?
Mr. Siceloff: This is the first time I have been back to Miami since
that, ----and I have not talked with them except just a couple of minutes
ago.
Rev. Gibson: But sir, isn't it true that in dealing in the future,
or if you have no further contact in depth, contact or dealing, that that
opinion would help to decide how you deal with us in the city of Miami. Isn't
that true?
Mr. Siceloff: I recommended to the advisory committee that of the two
areas that the committee might look into, I recommended that of the police
community relations. I might say further that these hearings you are presently
holding and whatever comes of them, if you have another agency to come in and
make a study, we may have to re-evaluate whether we likewise come in, but at
least at the meeting that we met on Oct. 11, the committee did decide to look
at the police community relations. Now I do work in another state, I am a field
tepresentative, I have to finish up a project in South Carolina before I can
even begin on the project here, so that we will be looking to the decision of
this commission as to our future action I believe.
Rev. Gibson: Let me pursue it another way. By the way, I once worked
for the government in that capacity as you, in New Jersey. Is it not true,
that, ---let's assume that you had no more information than you had.
Mr. Siceloff: Before I made the statement, that is right, -
Rev. Gibson:Isn't it also true that if you saw possitive aggressive
action or activity that you have picked it right away,in 20 minutes, wouldn't
you?
Mr. Siceloff:That is correct. If I may answer a little more completely
your question, the State Advisory Committee had made a decision some time
ago that they would look at three community relations in three different
sections of the State, two of those meetings have already been held, one
in Tampa and one more recently in Jacksonville, the third area was S. Florida
in Miami. When I heard there was a court order covering police department over
a 5 year period, I was particularly interested in what was happening in that
court order as to whether we should pursue our study as scheduled in Miami.
My conclusion after a brief conversation I had with some Black officers, some
Spanish speaking officers the Assistant Chiefs, the City Manager, and that
was by telephone, my recommendation to the committee was that even though
there was a court order, that it would bear, --that we might look into this
matter.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor I am not badgering, ----I don't think he wants
to answer us and since you are here, I think he ought answer us. Isn't it
true, knowing the kind of thing you deal with, and just like in preaching,
you can pick up a heck of a lot in 10 minutes, you can sense the alertness
of the congregation, you can sense the kind of turn-off that clergyman has,
or is not having, isn't it true that under the circumstance, the kind of business
you are in, that if there was affirmative, possitive action taking place, or
activity, you have got it in 20 minutes.
Mr. Siceloff: Well, I gave my impressions and I think I indicated these
were impressions, and that was the impression that came out of that meeting,
and of course, they were not in charge of the department at that time. They were
acting only in that capacity,----
38
NOV 2 71974
Mayor Ferret Mr. Siceloff, excuse fine Father, yot know I go back
to ay previous statement, actions, actions ,---you committee took action.
It made a decision, it is an 18 man committee, correct?
Mr. Siceloff: Correct.
Mayor Ferre: -'-men and women, ---it decided to investigate the civil
rights situation in the Miami police department. It had other alternatives,
it could have said no, we are going to look at another community, or in Dade
County we are going to look at the bi-lingual problem. It yet shows to look,
at the civil rights problems within the miami police department. Doesn't
that action speak for itself?
Mr. Siceloff: Yes, it does, but I would not want that conversation
to reflect that the attitudes of all the people with whom I talked
that time. I think I made that clear.
Mayor Ferre: I understand, this is your statement, and I just want to
make sure, -----I recognize you've got a sensitive position and you have got
to be very objective and professional, and I understand, and I --
don't
Mr. Siceloff: We are not an enforcement agency, I think I pointed that out
that all we do is fact-finding, ---
Rev. Gibson: Is it also true that when they start dishing out money ,
tell us this, that if affirmative action is not indicated it may well be that
we may receive or may not receive LEAA money, isn't that true?
Mr. Siceloff: That is correct, we could only recommend to some other
agency --
Rev. Gibson: Isn't it true that your findings influences how much
monty we get, and if we get any money?
yes,
Mr. Siceloff: If we find discrepancies in the way it is being used,
Mrs. Gordon: Where was that meeting held you keep referring to?
Mayor Ferre: This was a public meeting held on Oct. 11, 1974, University
of Miami Ashe Building, 2nd floor, Florida Advisory Board of the U.S. Commission
on civil rights. In page 3 of this, you made this statement,'I am taking one
step further, I think there are plenty of places for us to look into the police
system of Miami, and we will also include very definitely the Spanish-Americans
per se', now I am reading from -----
Mr. Siceloff: That was my recommendations committee, of the two projects
we look into the police.
Mayor Ferre: My point is, I am taking one step further, and this is
the important thing. I think there are plenty places forus to look into the
police system of Miami, that was obviously and that is why I would
imagine that that committee accepted that, and that is why this is taken on
as a project.
Mr. Siceloff: Then with the Miami persons who are members of the
committee agreeing that this would be correct.
Mayor Ferre: In other words, Mr. Siceloff, if there wern't any problems
if you were satisfied, if you didn't have an intuitive 20 minute
or one day because you really spent a day looking into this didn't
you.
Mr. Siceloff: I spent several days looking in both areas, correct.
Mayor Ferre: So obviously that would not have been the conclusion of this
commnittee, or yourself.
Mr. Siceloff: I think you are correct.
•
Mayor Terre: I think you ate correct. Mr. Andrews, the reason I
ask you what I did 10 minutes ago, is because there is another statement here
in that same page 2 by Mr. Siceloff and I am going to quote from it, it says
'Andrews understands the court to include a goal of spanish speaking persons
become officers in proportion with the population, but does not see this
attainable within 5 years nor does he feel the Miami residents will permit
it to happen."
Mr. Andrews: No, that is not what I said.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Siceloff, ----no I didn't say it, ----
Mr. Andrews: I said he said that, I said it was not attainable
unless we had some drastic changes occuring in Miami and --so there is no
misunderstanding here as to some of the things we are trying to explore
and I'll have to have the City Attorney indicate to you that I got a negative
reaction to this when I explored it with the Civil Service Office and with
the City Attorney's office. I was prepared to come to the City Commission
and tell you we are to stop recruiting from outside of the City of Miami for
police and firemen, where we have the ethnic representation, where these candidates
would have to come to this community within the proportion of 52% Latins, 23%
Black and Anglo Saxon, I find out legally we cannot do that.
Mayor Ferre: Paul, these things just have to come out, and I am
sorry, I am not saying you said this, I am saying Mr. Siceloff made this
statement and I am reading from it, he wants to say he didn't quite say it
that way, he is perfectly welcome to do it, and you can correct his misunderstanding
of it, I have to react to things as I see them.
Now, it seems to me, that if you have questions or problems whether this
be an accurate statement or the implications are accurate, I don't know. You
have been mandated by the federal court, they made you responsible for this, --
Mr. Andrews: No, that is not it, --I told you I started out this way, and
I set in motion what I thought was strong incentive for change in order to get
this under way. I was informed that that is not my role. My role is merely reporting
to the court.
Mayor Ferre: Well, whose role is it?
Mr.Andrews: The efforts of the individual agencies charged with this
responsibility in the city of Miami, recruitment and ethnic balance and repre-
sentation by the ordinances that we have to follow, is a function of our Civil
SErvice office.
Mayor Ferre:What you are saying is the Civil Service offie is responsible
for the implementation of this?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre:That is something we are going to have to clarify. Now, in
the U,S. District Court, Southern District, of Florida 71-1887 CIVsCA,
Franklin Cohen etal, plaintifs, in page 4 Item 12 it reads, the City
Manager of the City shall have the responsibility for the implementation
of all the provisions of this consent decree, ---now that is a federal
court mandate.
Mr. Andrews:Let me add this one thought, when I first became acquainted
with that in September of last year, I began to proceed exactly that way. It
was my interpretation that 1 was the one who was the one who is responsible
for the total implementation plan that would achieve this. Now, let Mr. Lloyd
tell you the rest.
Mr. Lloyd City Attorney: First there is no question that the City Manager
has overall responsibility for the conduct of the administration of city
affairs, and we recognize that and that was placed in the court order specifically.
Mr. Reese and I specifically wrote that ourselves in the court order, and they
way meant it was, and the way we have interpreted it is, that the Manager in
his role, as the overall administrator has overall responsibilities but there
must be somebody who has the responsibility to the court to inform the court as
to what is going on, but it does not over -ride the direct responsibilities of
the individual agency.
40 NOV 2 71974
Rev. Gibson; Mr. Lloyd, you heard us arguing up here for several
months now. Why didn't you tell us we ought to get about the business through
Civil Service to carry out the mandate.
Mayor Perre: I want to tell you something, you can only judge things
by how you would react, and Mr. Andrews, with all due respects to you, if
I had been in your seat, I would have insisted when I got that kind of nebulous
got the key type of situation, --to go back to the federal court,
and let them clarify that because somebody has to be responsible, if Item 12,
page 4, 'the city manager of the City shall have the responsibility for the
implementation df all of the provisions pE this :onsent decree,is not exactly
that ----I think you ought to back to court, and tell them, look Judge we
have a problem with the Civil Service, you mandate what we have to do here,
and I think you could have gotten a declaratory decree as to what the heck this
thing means, because as far as I am concerned, it means what it says.
Mr. Lloyd: Our problem Mr. Mayor that the Manager in his role as Manager
he does have overall responsibility for seeing to the affairs of the City,
has to deal with the various and sundry agencies of the City, and of course
you have the court order that is directed to the City of Miami. This was
FRanklin Cohen etal vs. the City of Miami which includes the Civil Service
Board, the Police Department and all of the agencies, in every facet. Each
one of them has the responsibility for doing their part, and the Manager
is really the coordinating agency to see to it, that these are done, but he
doesn't actually do it himself.
Mayor Ferre: Don't you think Mr. Lloyd that we could go back to the
Federal Court and get the authorities so that is clarified? All you can
judge is the results. Almost 14 months have gone by and we have one Black
major, and we are making some progress in other areas, but certainly I don't
see .
Mr. Andrews: We are not making the progress at this stage in order to
achieve the balance that the court has ordered us to accomplish, and unless
we recognize and face that we have to make some very drastic changes, and I
mean in our basic Laws in the City of Miami, that is what I was trying to
communicate to this gentleman, that is not going to occur.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, I am going to ask the Fire Chief in a moment
to testify and he is doing something within the structure and I think this
is going to be an interesting comparason.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor, when you do that, please, and I have met with
them, and I think they have done an excellent job, so don't misunderstand
my comments. You had better ask how many total applicants there are, and
what the ethnic make-up is of that group to prove a point.
Mayor Ferre: I understand it is apples and oranges, ---
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, -----again, the newspapers describes me
as sleeping, and when I hear something I wake up. Mr. Andrews said something
here, one of the most poisoning statements you have, --I believe you have
made since you have been City Manager. When Mr. Paulk was over there, --
you remember, Mr. Andrews, the first time I really saw you dander get up,
was last Thursday when you said, 'well, you had better, 'remember that?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, sir, -----
Rev. Gibson: Let me say I didn't take that lightly because that was
the first time I saw you react. As if you were the Manager, and either
they are going to do something about it or get off the bucket, understand?
Now, Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, I don't think you ought
to pay what is being said lightly, because that is the guts of your whole
problem, and I think it is unfortunate that the people of the Civil Service
are not here. Where are they? I hope Mr. Paulk you heard what was said about
why this court order was not being enforced, and what is wrong, and I hope
you heard Mr. Lloyd who is the counsel for the City and Mr. Andrews who is
administrator, say that some drastic surgery, not band -aids but some drastic
surgery, --some cutting of the heart, and cleaning out the insides has got to
take place, isn't that what you all meant? Okay, ----
Kamer: Now let me ask a question, sir, obviously your group decided
41. N0V271974
to look into the Miami situation because of the court order, is that correct?
Do ?understand that -a --
Mk. Siceloff: No, I believe I indicated earlier that the advisory
committee before I joined the commission had decided they would study police
community relations in three different areae and had chosen Tampa, Jacksonville
and Miami sometime ago.
Mr. Plummer: Before the court order?
Mr. Siceloff: Oh, yes, and the other two meetings had taken place
and it was now Miami's turn and the question was, in view of the court
order, should we still continue to hold this as our primary area.
Mr. Plummer: Do I understand you to say that the meetings of Tampa
and Jacksonville were done and completed?
Mr. Siceloff: The one that was done in Tampa, I think 1972, there is
a big lag in time there, the next project that was undertaken was that in
Jacksonville, the open meeting was held,we hold an open meeting, --we do not
have subpoena power, it was held last March, a report is still to be issued
on that, when you say completed, no it will be follow-up, recommendations
have not been released on that.
Mr. Plummer: Would you tell me how many Black officers Tampa has.
Mr. Siceloff: I do not know sir, ---
Mr. Plummer: I think the figure is two,---- I don't know about
Jacksonville, the point I am trying to make is this, --
Mr. Siceloff: ---about lOX in Jacksonville, roughly what you have here, ----
Mr. Plummer: --all right, how do you compare the City of Miami with
other police departments that you have looked into, forgetting about the
court order, how do you compare the City of Miami with other cities that
you have looked into?
Mr. Siceloff: Sir, I am not having much experience, --the other place
I have looked was the Jacksonville Florida one and I did do the work there.
Mr. Plummer: Compare Miami to Jacksonville,
Mr. Siceloff: I think it is unfair, because I have had a few preliminary
conversations with people here in the city of Mlami, and to try to judge
that in the background of say, 3 to 4 months of investigation within the
Jacksonville police force is not a way of determining,
Mr. Plummer: What you are saying, you can't answer the question, -----
Mr. Siceloff: That is right, -----
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager the next question is to you, you said that
based on your conversation or order from the City Attorney that you feel the
responsibility lies with that of the Civil Service Board. is that correct?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, -
Mr. Plummet: The area that of course the court order is issued in
is the area of the police primarily, is that correct?
Mr. Andrews: I took it more than that, it not only addresses itself
to police primarily, yea, but it affects in judgement the way the order
is written, the entire city, and we have to Tok forward -----
Mr. Plummer: I am going to agk a loaded. question, who did Mr. Niel
Garfield work for, Lt. Neil Garfield, who s he work for?
Mr. Andrews: He works in the police department, is subordinate to Capt.
Reese, who .,_,.y
42 NOV 2 71974
Mr. Plummer: Is he subordinate at all to the Civil Service Board?
Mr. Andrews: -----
Mr. Plummer: Then why is he designated as I sae here, the personnel
recruitment officer for the Miami Police department?
Mr. Andrews: Because in addition to the efforts that the Civil Service
office should be putting forth, in the larger departments, and this goes on
in Sanitation and Parks and Recreation, but primarily in Police and Fire, there
is an effort for recruitment even through the assignment of individual officers
in an effort to bring new recruits into the department, so with the efforts within
the department to assist in the recruiting, there have been times when the City
Manager's office has become involved in recruitment,-----
Mr. Plummer: Doesn't it seem feasible to you, it does to me, and tell
me if I am wrong, that rather than Lt. Garfield doing his thing, and the
Civil Service Board doing their thing, and the LEAA grant doing their thing,
that you would unify under that department which you say is charged with it,
the Civil Service Board, to make one concentrated effort from the place where
the responsibility lies.
Mr. Andrews: That is Mr. Plummer: Plummer: You mean to may that is right, --
Mr. Andrews: ---I agree with -----
Mr. Plummer: --but it has not been done,
Mr. Andrews: --it has not been accomplished to date. Let me clarify
one thing, you are reading a title there, you should speak to Lt. Garfield
and find out what portion of his time is in the actual recruitment area vs.
watching the recruits go through the program and his other duties.
Mr. Plummer: Has anyone in the department, leave Lt. Niel Garfield out
of this, has anyone in the department been designated as recruiters?
Mr. Andrews: I'll have to ask the department for an answer.
Mt. Plummer: I'd like the answer.
Mayor Ferre: I think there is going to be an important contrast with
what the Fire Dept has done,
Mr. Plummer: I am laying the predicate, --
Chief Watkins: This might be indirectly, the people assigned to the
Outreach program to that capacity as a recruiter. The people that
would be assigned to the Outreach program would be the only ones that I
could see that would have an active role as recruiters.
Mayor Ferre: I am sorry, tell me again,-----
Mr. Andrews: This is the $300,000. LEAA grant, ----
Mayor Ferre: The one we got a month or two ago?
Mt. Andrews: Yes, sir, -----
Mayor Ferre: You mean to tell me, you didn't see any responsibility
in the police department to get the show on, after that mandate of 13 months
ago by the federal court?
Chief Watkins: The interpretation of Mt. Lloyd is, that it was a function
of the Civil Service Board to initiate--- with the funding, ---
Chief,
Mt. Lloyd: No, that was not my interpretation, I beg to differ with
you, if so I think you have misinterpreted my interpretation. Our interpretation
of the order was solely directed to the authority of the manager, now there is
no question of what the manager must answer to the federal court, regarding
. 3 Nov 271974
compliance with federal court order. There is no question about that, he has
to gnawer to the federal court. Our interpretation was solely that that did not
sake him the dictator of the City of Miami and all its agencies.
Mayor Ferre: Well the point is that Mr. Siceloff's impression is now
being verified by the Acting Chief himeslf, so there is confusion about this.
Is that true Mr. Andrews?
Mr. Andrews: Apparently there is, yes, ---
Mr. Lloyd: All we say is, that'the Civil Service Board must do what
they are supposed to do, but the police department must do what they are
supposed to do, and if it entails recruiting, it entails recruiting, but
there was an interesting fight shaping up between the Manager's office
and the Civil Service Board as to who was to control which, and the answer
is, each is to control its own area of responsibility, that is all that our
area says.
Mayor Ferre: The point that I am trying to make, and I thank J.L.
Plummer for doing it much better than I have been able to do it, because
he got right to the heart of it, and I haven't been able to get it out,
is that it is the responsibility of the administration, the court order
says so, our structure and charter says so. That does not mean that the
Civil Service Board is not a factor. But I think it is the responsibility
of.the administration and that means the police chief to get it done, just
like it means it is the responsibility of the Fire Chief to get it done. The
reason I want to get the Fire Chief here with some of this people is because
they have been at that job and Iwant to hear the results, because I want to
contrast that with what the police department has been doing.
Mr. Plummer: What have you done, to present, if anything, and I am
blaming you, you are new, what has the department done, if anything, to
delegate members of the department to the Civil Service Board to assist
them in this recruitment.
Chief Watkins: The point you are rasing is an area I an not completely
familiar with, to my knowledge the parts the police department has done to
recruit would be initially under your public service aid program, I don't
know to what degree they had involvement in what we term the Outreach program.
I didn't understand this was being administered outside the department with
some degree of coordination within the department. I don't know the department
has been charged with recruitment and as you point out this shouldn t
necessarily be charged with. It goes much deeper than that, but I would like
to point out if I could becaut:e of the implications to what the gentleman
has said, I think it is unfair with the confusion that I think has been
experienced by the Commission today, that Asst. Chief Fox and myself should
be labeled as not concerned with a short brief conversation which I have to
admit confusion might have led to that opinion, but I certainly wouldn't want
to be in the police department and pre -judge someone and to damage what I consider
seriously their reputation on an opinion of 20 minutes. I don't think Asst.
Chief Fox has a lack of interest, maybe what's been happening here is , to
pin point to everyone's mind a responsibility and also the resources to do
something with it, I think results will be accomplished, but I can't comment
on things that some of them are just now beginning to be clear.
Mr. Plummer: I think he cleared that point, that it was an assumption,
rather than a fact, but I understand your point which I did not speak to,
now let me get to another if I may, ---Mr. Manager sometime ago there was
without question a tremendous drive put on, and as I recall three or four
different locations within the community, where a recruitment program for
minorities of the City of Miami or by the City of Miami, was advertised in
the paper, policemen were delegated to help recruit in the Black area,
and the Latin area, now, why wasn't that done under the Civil Service if
in fact that is your feeling of where the responsibility lies?
Mr. Andrews: Because we are attempting to duplicate parallels. add
to that which the Civil Service should be carrying on.
Mr. Plummer: I don't concur with that. I think when you duplicate it
is just exactly what it is, a duplication. Now, I think that if t.te responsibility
lies there, that they are the ones who should coordinate and ask assistance
44 Nnv 271974
of the police department to assist them since it is their neck on the
chopping block, to assist them in this recruitment program, and this is
not the way I have been recrvitthent progtam go. Here again, 1 am not saying
that the policemen that were ielegated on this program before, did a good
job of a bad job, they did their thing in the way they knew how, but what I
am saying is, that if we had concentrated, single authority, delegating who
visa going to do what, I believe we would be a lot better off, than everybody
running their own way.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, what I gather out of this is then that the
administration has tried to recruit along with Civil Service so you have
been involved in the process. I assume that would include the police department.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor what you are over -looking , and I didn't want to
bring out, but I guess we are going to have to, this revolves around the
world famous pick -them -out -Of -a -coffee -can situation, ----you recall that?
Mayor Ferre: Yea,
Mr. Plummer: Now, that was cne that was a great morale booster, its
not booster, God forbid, it was a morale degrading thing for the men in the
department. They said, when I went I had to be of the finest, 101% to get
on that department, but they are turning around and saying pick them out of
a coffee can. I was trying to bring to his attention that that was the conclusion
of this drive to recruit minorities, and the men on the department took it as
an affront, they were demanded to be of top-notch caliber, but here we turn
around and start picking men out of a coffee can.
Mayor Ferre: We the men that were picked out of a coffee can a minority
people?
Mr. Plummer: No, sir, ---
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor, appro po of that, this afternoon when you get
to Mr. Perez he was one of the people that was caught up,
Mayor Ferre: Let's clarify for those that don't remember. Let's see
if we can go into the process of clarification.
Under the Civil Service rule, as I understand it, there was a series of
names that were eligible as I understand it, even though their ranking was
one down to whatever it was, --
Mr. Plummer:----200,--
Mr. Andrews: Where is Mr. Paulk, he can answer it,
Mayor Ferre:--then they put all the names in a coffee can and pull
them out, --the question is, is that the way to recruit minorities?
Mr. Plummer: I didn't imply that that was the way to recruit minorities.
I am saying that was a very degrading thing to the men on the street, that
-----239, where we had always gone to the rule of the register, the top man,
the best man, got the job first. We then went, instead of using that system,
which had been tried and proved, we went to a system of placing all names in
a coffee can and picking out, was it 70, Bobby?
Mr. Robert Paulk: No, ---
Mr. Plummer: --that was the way they established the register, --
Mr. Paulk: That is correct, -----
Mr. Plummer:so this was the conclusion, -----
Mayor Ferre: I get your point, -----but my point , and I agree with
your point about how the police department felt, can you imagine how the
minorities felt to be picked out that way.
Mr. Paulk: Mr, Mayor, if I may, it wasn't the intent to select a
minority or non -minority in that way. The intent of that whole process
was to try and validate the examination so that a realistic pass -fail
45 NOV 2 71974
point could be established, without it being established arbitrarily, and
that is the whole, --the reason this process was even conceived, in the
processing of the 239 people who placed on the register, they were placed
numerically as they were drawn in random selection, so they could be fed
into the system, and be tried throughout the system, to determine how can
we colate the persons' capability in the school to what the passing score
should be on the examination, We haven't concluded that study in its entirety
yet, yes, there will be samplings of minorities, both Black and Latin within
that study, as well as Anglo Saxon, but it is not geared towards Blacks or
Latins, --
Mayor Ferre: Let me just point-blank ask you, you know what the federal
intent is, you know what the court intent is, are we meeting that?
Mr. Paulk: No, sir we are not meeting it entirely.
Mayor Ferre: Why not?
Mr. Paulk: I can't answer why not exactly.
Mr. Andrews: I am going to try to answer for you, as I understand it,
Mayor Ferre: Excuse Mr. Ma a er, Mr. McCrary, you are next. Why don't
you write down the questions an� then, otherwise we are going to have a free -
for -all, ---all the people here speaking, so just write down your question and
I will recognize you next.
•
Mr. Andrews: I think that until such time that we make some that we make
some basic changes, in how we recruit, under our law in the city of Miami, re-
cruitment, and those who are eligible under our laws, are two separate matters,
no matter how well we recruit, the requirements the Civil Service has to follow
because the law needs changing, the laws themselves, and we recognize this and
we begin drawing from the base where we need to make the ethnic representation,
it is very difficult to try to change.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, if you recognize that as the problem, and I
assume you have recognized this for some time, this is not something recent,
how, besides telling us at the commission level are you addressing to correct
that, since the court order on item 12 charges you as I read it, with the
responsibility of implementation of all these provisions of this consent decree.
Mr. Andrews: The first approach was to, --and I talked to Mr. Paulk
individually about this, --I can't remember if I spoke to Mr. Lloyd or one
of his assistants inreference to this area I am about to bring out, the first
approach was, let's restrict our recruiting to the City of Miami even if we
just limit it to the police department, to then get the kind of ethnic repre-
sentation we would be drawing from the community itself, we were bound to increase
the number of ins and Blacks that would be eligible just by our ethnic makup,
but it is my and rstanding that that is not legally possible, that we cannot achieve
that.
Mayor Ferre: When did you find this out, approximately, --
Mr. Paulk: T don't recall the exact date, about a month and a half, or
two months ago.
Mayor Ferre: But you have been under court mandate for 13 months, ---
Mr. Andrews: Yes, sir, ---
Mr. Plummer: Let me get to a point here, you say because it is illegal
because it is discrimination, ----
Mr. Paulk: It could be alleged an act of discrimination, if you could not
correlate the requirement to reside within a certain area, to the performance
of the job. This is what my discussion was with the law department, and pursuing
the possibility of restricting not just police, not just police officers, but
likewise firefighter applicants to residents of the city of Miami.
46
NOV 271974
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Paulk we received I don't recall what it was, we
received a federal grant that was mandatory that the people had to be hired
that lived in the city of miami, how cone they can discriminate and we can't?
Mr. Faulk: He is correct, under the emergency employment act, we process
many people who live within the corporate limits of the city of Miami, in various
and sundry jobs, in title 5 and section 5 and section 6, section 6 is Model City
area, section 5 is the entire area of the city of Miami, including Model Cities.
Under the current program, this is highlighted to certain sections of
the city also, so there is a new grant that has come into promimemce under the
Comprehensive Employment training act, -they must be unemployed, they must live
within a certan area, in order to be eligible for employment under those positions.
Mr. Plummer: How come they can do it and we can't.
Mr. Paulk: The only thing that I can tell you Commissioner Plummer
is that because of the requirements of the law, the U.S. Congress enacted
and are receiving those funds, we have to take the necessary action to comply
in the utilization of those funds, by making exception and permitting people
otherwise down on the register to be employed, so this city would not lose the
funding that was felt in this community.
Rev. Gibson: I understood, and I think justly so, --I made a statement
about two and half months ago, when we were getting ready to get into this
hearing about, the credibility of our respective departments, do you remember
that?
Mr. Andrews: Yes,- --
Rev. Gibson: --okay, saying that, I understood if we had some confusion
or misunderstanding as to the intent of this order, I am not a lawyer, but why
didn't we go ask the judge.
Mr. Lloyd: Just a moment, with due respect, Father, may I say this, there
is no confusion in my mind, and one thing we must be careful of, and I one thing
I mast remind this commission, if I may with all due respect, I appologize for
taking up the time, but there is one thing that we must remember, that no one
in the legislative or administrative processes of this city may abrogate their
responsibility the federal court. Now, that means this commission, that means
this Manager, that means each of us, department heads, the Civil Service Board,
that means myself, and if I were to go to the federal court, and say, tell us
exactly what to do, I feel, there is room for disagreement, I admit, I understand
this order, at least I think I do, you asked the question, I am attempting to
answer, and.I feel what the order says is, that everybody from the legislative
body on down, through all echelons of the City of Miami, must exercise their
responsibility, and let me tell you this, this commission, did exercise its
responsibility as a policy making body if you remember, and I think, yourself
made the motion, or amended the motion, in which you decided as a matter of
policy, that long before, the order required the appointment of a Black major
as a matter of policy, you decided on resolutions that you couldn't order the
Manager so, but you stated your policy that you felt as a policy that that should
be implemented before the requirements of the court order.
Rev. Gibson: That was J.L. Plummer, I don't want to take that from you,-=
Mr. Lloyd: --yes, sir, I appologize for my lack of memory in that respect,
but what I am trying to say, and I appologize for being verbose on the subject
but I am trying to say, that that court order is directed to everybody in this
city.
Mayor Ferre: I think you made that statement.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, the court order is directed to everybody in
the City. I am a layman, not a lawyer, Mr. Andrews understood one thing,
counsel told him another, --the counsel and Mr. Andrews didn't have the
same understanding, so the counsel corrected Mr. Andrews. Mr. Paulk had
another and he thought something else. I am saying, and counsel, you can't
tell me to the contrary, I know better than that. If there was a misunderstanding
about the interpretation of what that judge meant, the judge is human, all you
have to do was to do go the judge and say, your honor, I misunderstand, --we
41 NOV 2 71974
are not clear. Ask this man, they do it every day, and you know what would
happen, the judge would have sdt us the right and narrow path, and we, the
legislative body Wouldn't be getting out of our responsibility, nor would
the Civil Service be getting out of their responsibility. I am saying, that
the way the is for us to declare, that we don't really have clarity,
now, I believe as of now, that we, the commission ought to say to the counsel,
that if there is this gray area, because if you don't satisfy the courts, these
fellows can always go back, and we ought to get tired of putting the burden
of proof on the people who could least afford it.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer I hate to do this to you but Judge McCrary
has to be back to a court case and if we don't let him speak now, he -
Mr. Plummer:He is going to give into me for about 2 minutes, okay, -----
Mayor Ferre: You want to make a statement?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor we have sat here about an hour and a half, and
listened to where all the problems are, if this commission is going to accomplish
anything, we have to go from this point forward, and I am sure that is what the
judge wants to speak to. This has become clear to me where this responsibility
lies for recruitment. I am going to tell you, we can talk directly to you and we
don't violate the charter. I don't know how the rest of this Commission feels,
but I am ready to make the motion, --since this area obviously come down to yours,
when I say yours, the Civil Service Board, neck on the chopping block, I expect
and demand of your department by the 17th of December, which is our next commission
meeting, --
Mayor Ferre: No, the 2nd of December is our next meeting.
Mr. Plummer: He can't do it by Monday, if you will furnish this
commission with a list and a tentative budget, of what you are goin to need
to accomplish the end in the court order, and this commission will either act
responsively and supply you with the tools that you need to implement this court
order or we will take the heat. I think it is well within your purview if you
don't have the personnel, and if you don't have the money for advertising, I want
on the 17th of December a list from you. Let's forget about the past if we can,
it's gone, but let's do something about the future and let's to it now. I am hoping
on the 17th that you will be back here and you will say to this commission, gentlemen
I feel that this is what I need and you outline it, to accomplish what has been
mandated of this city, and this commision better find the necessary appropriation
to give you the tools to get the job done.
I don't know you need a motion for that, I think you should have the feelings
of the other commissioners because this is only one speaking, but let's get the
job done, and we can't do it without supplying you the tools which takes money.
I hope the rest of the commission will express themselves. You will come back
here on the 17th with that report I am asking.
Mayor Ferre: J.L. I am going to recognize you when we get back , but
right now we really have to let Judge McCrary speak. Mr. Siceloff I want to
thank you for being with us today. While you are swearing him in let me,---
J.L. and Mr. Andrews, once again, here it is,--Jacob's report, Page 8, I am
going to read the statement again --'giving our country's historical trend, as
regards race relations, it is not likely that this problem will be solved without
a commitment to positive minority recruitment program' --you have to make a
commitment, however many of the barriers to such programs exist within the
agencies themselves, because, ---and then it keeps on going. I read it before
but that is the key question, however many of the barriers to such programs
exists within the agency and we have just got to face this, get on with this.
Mr. Ron Silver: Your name and address please.
Judge Jessie McCrary: My name is Jessie McCrary, 11601 Biscayne Blvd.
Miami,Florida, I am appearing here today in one of my many cases against the
City of Miami and this one is coined vs. The City of Miami, does not relate to
any other case that I may be litigating with this august body.
Members of the Commission let me assure you that one, this order is a
consent decree, it is different from the Judge mandating the City to perform
certain functions. The City said by its agreement of this order, yes we have
been wrong in the past, but here is what we are willing to do, here is what we
48 NOV 271974
are able to do. This was a worked -out agreement, Mr. Plummer, and I think the
City is obligated to do everything that is in this order, and I don't think
the City should now come and say we don't know who is responsible, whether it
is the City Manager, the City knew who was responsible at the time they signed
this order, everything was discussed with the judge, we understood it, the City
understood it. My only concern at this point is that the order is followed, and
if the City had some questions about this order, if the City Attorney had some
questions, if the City Manager had questions, if the City Commisson had questions
the time to do it was October 1973. It was not done at that time and I warn
this Commission agains that unless there is remarkable changes made in the
immediate future as it relates to this order the City is going to find itself
back in court. Additionally, there was no need for the case to ever go to court.
We negotiated for 18 months with the City sitting at the table saying these policies
are wrong about the examination. Mr. Plummer, I want to get to the coffee can
incident. The coffee can incident was a result of Chief Garmire coming to this
commission and saying to you specifically, I need officers in the academy because
officers are retiring because people are leaving the department. I consented at
that time on behalf of Cohen and the organizations that I represented that we
would forego a right that we had under this order, to have an indepentent agency
do the testing. I think it is ludicrous now that people come back and say the
coffee can incident wasn't really what we wanted, and you 'remember Mr. Plummer,
I said I will not enforce the provisions of this order because I don't want
the police department stopped dead still without people in there. I think they
are stuck with them and if the members of the department are now disgruntled
because some people did not accomplish the same standard that they did, that is
unfortunate, that is Chief Garmire's problem and I think we ought to both shots
just like they are. Additionally, this order did not deal with Black people,
and this is a racial order. It is an order to up grade the City of Miami police
department. The order dealt with making an examination fair and impartial. It
dealt with making an examination fair to white Anglo Saxon protestants, fair
to Latins, fair to Blacks, fair to Chinese, fair to women, fair to Gay people.
That is what the order dealt with and now when we come back, and the City agrees
to the order that we are going to put into the police department a proportionate
number of policemen as they relate to the population of the City of Miami, and
now we hear from this group, we can't do that unless we do drastic changes.
Ultimately what I expect to go back to court with, with this order is to see
that approximately 50% of the police department in this city is Latin, that
approximately 23% of the police department in this city is Black and the
remaining 22% will be White. That is what the order said. That is what the
City agreed to.
Mrs. Gordon: How many are going to be women, Jessie?
Judge McCrary: I represent them too. But now I am telling you Commissioners
the City said this is what we can do. They agreed to this kind of population
distribution within the department. And I don't think that this Commission
ought to let the City Manager, the City Attorney cloud the issue and say 'I
don't know whose responsibility it is', ----I agree with the Mayor, item #12
page 4, 'the city manager of the city shall have the responsibility for imple-
mentation of all provisions of this consent decree', --not of this order, it is
only an order after all the parties agree to it, the Judge puts his signature
on it, then it is his order. But he didn't make this decision. The City made
the decision with the organization that sued it, and I think it would be hypocritical
the Commission is hypocritical, any member in the administration is hypocritical if
you now come back and say we don't know whose responsibility it is. It is somebody's
responsibility, and I frankly don't give a damn whose responsibility it is, I
am only concerned today that it is followed. If they want to say Civil Service, fine,
if its the police department, fine, somebody has to tell me something. Let
inform you of some other things that have gone on. This order says that there
are certain procedures to be followed, when a person takes a medical examination.
I want to inform the commission that there had been attempts to negotiate with
me to change the contents of that order, and I refused them, and can document that.
Mayor Ferre: What do you mean?
Judge McCrary: i.e.----I appeared at the Civil Service Board meeting relative
to the weight to be given, for police officers on a period of time, and I agreed
to the new procedure, that a man shoud get his greatest weight in terms of seniority
during his younger years on the force. I was approached and asked whether or not
we would change the way the court order said it ought to be done, re the medical
examination, if a recruit takes an examination and he is refused by the City
physician, he then has the option of going to his own physician who must then
49
NOV 27 1974
consult with the City doctor. If those two gentlemen disagree, there is a
third alternative that a panel of three doctors will be chosen and their
decision will be final. The City agreed to that. At the Civil Service meeting
Mr. Paulk approached me with the idea that maybe we ought to change this, so
that it operates another way. I did refuse that change, I informed the organization
that I was representing in writing, as to whether they wanted to change that,
if they did Iwould gladly go back to court to do it. The organization then
informed me that they did not want to do that. They wanted it to remain at
the court ordered. I see Mr. Paulk getting up now.
However, there have been other attempts to change the contents of the
court order. At a subsequent Civil Service meeting, there were people here
who wanted the independent agency to validate the examinaton before it was
given, which is virtually an impossibility. The court order specifically provides
that the validation shall occur after a two year period. I think we are all playing
games. The City has two alternatives. They can 1.--abide by the court order, whoever
is responsible, 2 they cannot abide by the court order and the city will find itself
in litigation again, and I assure you I don't think the City can win, and that
is not a threat, and while you are mentioning it, what you said Father Gibson,
I am also about to represent another group of individuals against the City of
Miami unless the city wants to sit down and talk, and talk realistically about
these problems. But to my knowledge, Mr. Plummer, I don't know of anyone who
has contacted me, there has been some contact with the organization about
other organizations saying that we support recruitment. But other than getting
a Black major, other than getting an independent agency, there has been no com-
pliance with this court order and if it hasn't been done for 13 months, it is
not going to be done in 5 years, but I am not going to wait 5 years, I am going
to wait about a couple of months, and if there is not a massive kind of drive
done for Latins, for Blacks, for identifiable minorities, and I want to make that
clear. I am not here talking about Black people. I am talking about identifiable
minorities and that in my mind would include women, Latins and Blacks.
Mayor Ferre: Results, I repeat, it is a question of results. You said you
are not satisfied with the results.
Judge McCrary: Absolutely not, ----
Mayor Ferre: So we have to judge by results.
Mudge McCrary: Mr. Mayor at the time this lawsuit was filed, there were
approximately 79 or 80 Black police officers. As of October, a report that is
called 'personnel statistics by race and sex' for the month of October, which
deals with the City of Miami police department, Black male officers, 81.
Mayor Ferre: That speaks for itself. All right Judge, is there anything
else you want to add before I open this up for questions from the Commission?
Mr. Plummer: Let me ask the Judge, you heard what the motion is that I
am going to make at the appropriate time, do you agree or disagree.
Judge McCrary: Mr. Plummer, I agree in content, I am dissatisfied with
this commission that they have not pin -pointed, there seems to be an argument
on the commission as to whose responsibility it is.
Mayor Ferre: And I keep saying that as far as this one voice out of 5,
this article 12 says the administration, and if the administration needs,--
i.t says the City Manager of the City shall have the responsibility of the
implementation of all provisions of this consent decree. If there are any
questions as to what that means, we ought to clarify it right here.
Mr. Plummer: There is no question in my mind. There never has been. The
City Manager is charged under the Charter to implement every action of this
commission in the city. I think it is the same way.
Mr. Andrews: Just a minute, Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, are
you saying that you are giving me the authority of recruitment in all these
other areas.
Mr. Plummer: No, -----
Mr. Andrews: That is what we are talking about. That is the whole basis,-
5u NOV 2 71974
it la the ether areas we are reacting possitively,--the University of
Chicago is doing some fine things, examination processes are under way in
all those areas, but the one major area is recruitment.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews is the Fire Dept. under your direction?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, it is,�---
Judge McCrary: Mr. Mayor let me say one thing here. I want to point out to
you Sec. 8 on this order and indicate to you for all those people who may .think
this law suit was meant to benefit only minorities, sec. 8, the order says,
'all policemen shall take an annual physical examination and I assure you
if you examine the police department that is not happening, it says all
policemen, and there's got to be some reason why we are not upholding the
mandate of'this order, and that' doesn't relate to Black folk and Latins,
that relates to all policemen. We have policemen who are too fat and shouldn't
be on the force.
Mayor Ferre:Chief, can you address yourself to that?
Asst. Chief Watkins: Indirectly, your honor, there was some conversation
Chief Garmire had and there was a plan drawn up for a physical fitness standards
-----, the degree that this was worked out with the medical department, --I can't
comment on that.
Mayor Ferre: Has it been implemented?
Asst. Chief Watkins: To my knowledge, no.
Mayor Ferre: Will it be implemented? When will it be implemented,
Mr. Andrews: I can't answer that.
Unidentified person: The City doctor has made arrangements with Fisher
Medical Clinic and the Dade County Health department for exrays and gave us
all the paper work last week and it will be effected the first week in January.
Mayor Ferre: Fine, thank you.
Judge McCrary: That is for all police officers?
Unidentified person: All police officers.
Mayor Ferre: Judge, if you could stay with us for a little while, I would
like to get Chief Don Hickman then after that you might want to make another
statement, then we are going to brake and go to lunch.
Mr. Ron Silver: Will you state you name and capacity, sir?
Chief Don Hickman: Don Hickman, Chief in the Fire Department.
Mayor Ferre: Chief Hickman, do you have Daimon Herd here?
Chief Hickman: Yes,
Mayor Ferre: Would you ask Mr. Herd and Lt. Floyd Jordan, is he here?
Would you swear him in please?
Mr. Ron Silver: Please state you name for the record,
Mr. Daimon Herd: I am Daimon Herd, Field Coordinator for the Labor
recruitment program INternational•Assoc of Firefighters.
Mr. Floyd Jordan: My name is Floyd Jordan, I an a Lieutenant in the
Miami Fire Department, at present I city director of labor recruitment program
for the City of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: Chief Hickman I want to apologize to you for putting you,
and I know a difficult position and I am sure this is not to your liking or
to your taste, to have to be brought up here, and be used, which is what exactly
I intend to do, as a source of compariaon,and I apology to you. I think it is
51 N O V 2 71974
important since we do have what is recognized as the No. I Fire Department
in this country to see how the No. 1 Fire Department approaches the problem
which you yourself have recognized that we do not have, along with every
other department of the City of Miami, proper minority balance. You recognize
13 months ago after that mandate came out, that you were going to be under the
gun too, and you went about trying to solve the problem. Would you please drscribe
for this commission and to the public, how you went about solving your problem
what the results have been, and exactly how you accomplished it. Excuse me,
Chief, I want to point out, Mr. Andrews, so it won't be pointed out for me
that I recognize there is a substantial difference between a police department
and a fire department. We are talking about apples and oranges. There is not
the same public contact, there is not the same sense of responsibility, there
is not the need, there is danger, but not the same kind of danger. I recognize
that the problem was a lot worse, that at least in the police department when
Chief Garmire became chief five and one-half years ago, there were 85 Black
policemen. There were no Black firemen at that time, as recall, so I recognize
all of these problems, and that in a way it is unfair to make an exact comparison.
Nevertheless, here is a department that also functions under Civil Service, and
functions under your administration, and your responsibility. I think that
if they had been able to attack the problem and addressed themselves to it,
the point I hope to make in all of this, is that perhaps other departments
can follow at least, if not the same path, the same direction.
Chief Hickman: At the outset Mr. Mayor I would like to make this statement,
my 28 years I have been in the City of Miami Fire Department, 23 of them have
been in supervisory positions, and day by day I have worked closely with the
City of Miami police department, and we of the fire department, particularly
myself, have a high regard for our policemen and police officers. We receive
from the good cooperation on any incident. To the recruitment program, several
years ago, and more particularly a couple of years ago, we of the Fire Dept.
came concerned over the lowering of standards throughout some of our area in
the nation, who get firemen hired on minority groups, and being, --feeling that
the safety of the general public, should receive the finest fire protection
that we could give them, we set about trying to help Civil Service recruit
minorities. We have worked unilaterally , vertically, horozonally , throughout
our department, our community, and not been too successful in recent years,
but about 12 months ago, Capt. Powers was president of our firefighters came
to me with a possibility of a program sponsored by their international and
headed up by a group working through their international. I discussed it with
him, he found out for me the requirements we would have to meet in order to
get involved in this program, .and the main thrust was that there would have to
no available list at this time, a negotiable number of firemen that could be
hired in the next year, and more important, 100% backing from the executive,
administrative, the fire department and the Civil Service Board with numerous
meetings, we agreed on it in the fire department, brought it to the Civil
Service Board, got them to agree with it, then brought it to Mr. Andrews,
and received 1002 backing from all these concerns. We immediately applied for
the program, and after a couple of months, Mr,. Daimon Herd was sent to us,
to head up this program.
Mayor Ferre: How along ago was that Chief?
Chief Hickman: Approximately September when he came in.
Mayor Ferre: This year,?
Chief Hickman: Yes. I assigned W.T. Brice, coordinated through my office
with Capt Powers and Daimon Herd. They in turn selected Lt. Floyd Jordan
to head this up with Fireman Waters and Molina, and I think Mr. Herd could
give you a better overall picture of the operations of it.
Mr. Diamon Herd: I'd like to say first that in order for our project,
a little about the•project, we are sponsored by the Dept. of Labor with a grant
$324,000. to implement our program in 12 cities across the country. In order for
the project to come into any city, definite requirements have to be met with
the City, the Department and the local union. Here in the City of Miami, with
contacts through Mt. Phil Powers, president of Local 587, we sent him a questionaire
projecting the number of vacancies that would be here in the City in the next year,
and negotiating with Civil Service on the actual requirements for entry into the
fire service, the program was implemented. This program cannot into any city unless
ite requested by the local union. We can only do, --only assist that city if the
52 NOV 2 71974
local union requests them. I came here in September and at that time
the make up the make-up of the Miami Fire Department was approximately
660 left, of that there were 4 Blacks and approximately 30 Latins, which is
less than 5 2 of the total, total make-up, less than 1% was Black. We immediately
began to look !or staff. We work under the philosophy of the out reach concept
whereas the number one thing you have to do is identify your problem, and the
problem here is that minorities were not coming to the fire service. In order
to get the project rolling since you did have 4 minorities on this, 4 Blacks,
and 30 Latins on the department, we chose our staff within the department. The
staff was selected, we housed the project, we had two offices, we had one main
office here and one satalite office. We had one office in the Black community
at 6617 N.W. 7th Avenue we had the other in the Man Power Administration Bldg.
on S.W. 1st Avenue. One was staffed by Latins, and one was staffed by Blacks
but it was a joint effort and everything was coordinated out of one office.
Mayor Ferre: Tell us about the results.
Mr. Herd: The results of the project, the test was given last
Tuesday and Wednesday, the total number of applicants that went in to
take the test was 1123, of that number 276 was from the Latin and Black
community.
Mayor Ferre: Repeat the total number again, ----
Mr. Herd: 1123 applications were filed with Civil Service, and of that
number 276 were from the minority community. The break down of the 276, there
were 172 Blacks, 104 Latins. In the Latin area there also one woman. The actual
test day, the number of applicants showed to take the exam were 695. The only
results we have at this time, based on those exams, were the number of people
that passed. Out of that 695 people, a total of 495 passed the exam. The break
down of the 495 I would not be sable to tell you for approximately another week.
Mayor Ferre: You don't have any ideas as to,
Mr. Herd: ---as to what the results are? No. All I know is that this is
probably in relationship to project's effort across the country, never has the
community under the labor recruitment program,never have we stimulated a
community as we did here in Miami. As far as recruitment goes, when the project
started we had 550 actual applicants to come through the project. I think this
is key, ------because what we do that is built into the project is a natural
screening process whereas what we are shooting for if the cream of the crop.
What you have to understand is the entire Civil Service process is a game
of numbers. Most minotiries are rejected or fail to meet or fail to make
that final eligibility list just simply because they are outnumbered, and
any given city I have been to this year a minority usually faces the odds of
1 to 10, so our prime objective is to try to get a 50/50 relationship going
into the exam. Therefore the outcome of the exam has got to be moreso in favor
of the minority than it ever has been in the past. Here in Miami I believe this
is the highest nuttt,er that has ever taken the fire department civil service
exam.
Mayor Ferre: So in other words you conclude that your attempt was
successful. You are satisfied, are you?
Mr. Herd: No I am not satisfied. I'll never be satisfied.
Mayor Ferre: Was it successful?
Mr. Herd: Yes, based on all the cooperation, based on the 10 cities 1 have
been in this year, and based on the cooperation I got from this city, and as far
as implementing the project, what the staff actually did to stimulate the
community here, yes, I am satisfied. In as far as the total over all selection
process, and what could be done to make that better, if you want my honest
opinion, no, I am not satisfied. There are certain areas,that, you have to
understand that, in as far as minorities coming to civil service, the key is
inner -generational mobility, whereas the non -minority has always had the
father, the brother, the uncle that has had one of these jobs, and it is easy
to pass it down. Therefore his conscience level as to what the process entails
is always greater than the minority. What the project attempts to do is become
that father, that brother, that uncle, therefore the dispersing the information
in as far as the selection process, what is required to actually get a job to the
minority community. I say that based on the 276 that took the exam here in the
future, the first effort in any given city, is not always the greatest. The
second effort is usually the best, and I say that because you have already
stimulated the community. You have individuals take the exam that will carry
it back to the community. I think the main point in recruitment is, you've
got to sake the community aware of what is available.
Mayor Perre: Mr. Herd did you feel there was in -put from the administration
----interests from the administration, is that a factor in getting all this achieved?
Mr. Herd: Yes it was,
Mayor Ferre: How important a factor, that is what I want to know.
Mr. Herd: Unless the project has the backing of the administration
there is nothing we can do.
Mayot Perre: Did you feel you had that backing?
Mr. Herd: You are putting me on the spot, ----
Mayor Ferre: Tell it like it is.
Mr. Herd: If I make a comparison of the 10 other cities I have been
in this year, I felt I had the support. In as far as your over-all total selection
process here in the City of Miami, I think you really need to get a look at it,
and re-evaluate some of the steps in it. I am not saying the project came about
because the international did not want the standards or the requirements for
entry lower, but you have to take a look at what you have. What we use as a
means to find the cream of the crop is self elimination. I believe in the future
that is going to take the place of written exams whereas you have a project where
a person comes in, it is open to everyone and that person then eliminates himself.
Mayor Ferre: This statement that Iread previously from the Jabob's report
is the police institute, 'however many of the barriers to such programs exists
within the agencies themselves', I dont think anybody is going to argue with
that, that is a truism. Do you think that we have been able to cut a little bit
through that by this process, or some?
Mr. Herd: Yes, I believe we have.
Mayor Ferre: To me that is the important point, that you have achieved,
that you have been able to cut through, doesn't mean you are going to solve all
of the problems.
Mr. Herd: No, you can't solve all of the problems. Right now in the country
there is only one project dealing in the area of public employment or civil
service that is the labor recruitment program of the International Assoc of
Firefighters. Based on the different cities selection processes, the project
is mobile and flexible. Every city we go to, the process is different, therefore
enabling the national staff to take a look at some phases in other cities that
I say are more valid than maybe what you have here, and I think the entire city
should be open to change and especially change in the way of employment and selection
process for employment in Civil Service.
Mayor Ferre: Lt. Jordan would you like to add something to that?
Lt. Jordan: I think we have been successful thus far and I would praise
that success to the staff that we had. I would credit that success to the
cooperation we received from the Fire Chief's office and from the local union
587, also the help we received from the other agencies within the community.
We wade contact with all the agencies in the community. We asked for
their assistance and they gave it to us, and thus far, at this particular point
I think we were successful, as he said he contacted approximately 550 individuals
of those 550 we had approximately 430 completed civil service applications, of
that number we had approximately,276 take the test, he broke that down to Blacks
and Latins. I think we have done all we could do, we contacted the individuals,
we stimulated the interest in the community, we got these people to come to our
tutoring classes, wee,got them to come and take the test, they have taken the
test, and we don't know the results and I think we have done all that we could
do.
Mayor Ferre: Are there any questions of either Lt. Jordan or Mr. Herd?
54
NOV 271974
Mr. PiuMmir:Mr. Mayor, I think the results here speak for itself. My
concern now is, Mr. Herd you are here on a given program. Do I assume rightfully
you will be leaving shortly.
Mt. Herd: As a matter of fact, 6:25, as to what you are getting to, the
project within our system, we continue a follow up of all those individuals
that Make the eligibility list, that is the reason for hiring staff within
the fire department. Lt. Jordan isn't going anywhere, Omar Molina who is one
of the recruiters and firefighter Willie Waters aren't going anywhere. They will
be able to maintain that eligibility list, follow our people up and give them
assistance which is another key to the overall process, once they enter the
training school.
Mr. Plummer: Well the assurance you are giving me is, this type of program
will continue.
Mr. Herd: Yes it will. There is one other thing I'd like to add that
was unique here in Miami. As I stated we are funded for $324,000. to implement
the project in 12 cities across the country. We started here in September,
the entire process recruitment all the way up to actually taking the test was
a little over 2 and 1/2 months. The entire amount of money spent here in the
City of Miami, I was allocated $13,000. to set the project up and maintain it
for five months. The money we used is not quite $8,000. at this time and baeed
on the numbers, that is the best in the country right now.
way.
Mayor Ferre: In other words, Mr. Herd, where there is a will there is a
Mr. Herd: Oh, there is definitely a way,
Mayor Ferre: That is the point, and that is the main point I wanted to
make today, and I want to thank you very much. Are there any other questions?
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor I want to give those two men credit. Stand up,
there, I shall always remember what you said to me, you said,Fr. Gibson
pretty soon we are going to surprise you and I laughed because I know the
tradition, --those guys just talking, will never happen, and when they told
me the other day and I was over to the staion yesterday, I have to admit that
you kept your word and again Sydney Aronovitz will go down in history, he
said to me, where there is a will there is a way, and there's got to be an
awful lot of people got to make up their mind they have a will to change
what we have, and to cooperate.
Mayor Ferre: Chief, is there anything else you want to say at this point?
Chief Hickman: I'd like to say Daimon Herd is a firefighter from Tacoma
Washington, but we would not accept him here because of his haircut.
(Laughter)
Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, I left it for last because I want to
address myself to Phil POwers and to Gene Naples specifcally and I was invited
and fortunately I want able to make it, last year to attend a dinner they had
and I made a statement then and I am going to repeat it publicly today, I want
to thank you and the Fire Department for making this Fire Department along
with the Chief and Staff the number 1 fire department in this country. Let me
tell you something, you have been the inspiration as I told you last year, that
this administration and this city can strive for'excellence can achieve
excellence, that it does exist, that we do have something to look to, as an
example of how a department should function. I recognize that the problems
are different, but there are thousands of fire departments in this country
and there are hundreds of fire departments our size, and we are No. 1, and
has to mean something. And that just doesn't happen over night, and it doesn't
happen because of only the men, or the union, or the organization, or the
Chief or the administration, it is combined effort. I wanted very badly to
bring this matter up today because I wanted to show how a successful department
is attacking the problem, not necessarily solving it, but approaching the
problem. I think we have to take that into consideration, then I have to ask
the hard question, Mr, Manager, in your opinion, do you think the police
department is approaching this problem, all of the police department. the
fraternal order of police, the men, the structure within the police department
-----the administration. have we aonroached the police orob'_em l.i.kc the fire
5� NOV 2 71974
department approached a similar problem within the fire department, in your
opinion?
Mr. Andreas: I would have to answer in all honesty, no, at this stage,
but t would have to qualify teat with this comment, when Mr. Powers came to
me to discuss this project form 6 months ago, Mr. Powers?, I indicated
to him and showed enthusiasm for the carrying out of this project, and indicated
to him, and met Mr. Haas for the first time which was down at our fueling station
at Dinner Key, I indicated also to him the first time before we met more formally
in my office with other representatives of the fire department, that I had
hoped that if this were a successful approach, this inovative recruitment
program that they were going to initiate, that it would have applicability
elsewhere in the city, and apparently, without questionit has been very
successful, and I think we can parrot almost identically the program they
have initiated and utilized this process throughout the city, not only the
police department but other departments.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews I want to add my comment on a positive note.
I for one believe that whatever the problems are that may exist, we may all
differ as to what they are in the police department, and I really firmly
believe that they can be corrected, that I think it is within your power
and within the acting Chief and the department's power to correct, I know
it can be done, and I think we can end up with the same excellence in he
police department that we have in the fire department and this is just one
area that we brought out to make a dramatic point hopefully, and I am positive
this can be done, and I certainly hope that this will not, --that the difficulties
that we are suffering because of this will not go on unrecognized ..
Rev. Gibson: Chief Kenney is here,
Mayor Ferre: Chief why don't you step forward for recognition. You
know Chief Kenney, has to share in the positive recognition of the excellence
in the department, --you were Chief for how many years?
Chief Kenney : .^•.leven years, ------
Mayor Ferre:-----eleven years, and we are now enjoying the fruits of
your work, along with the work of Chief Hickman, naturally.
Rev. Gibson: Are you enjoying your retirement?
Chief Kenney: I don't know what I was missing.
(Laughter)
Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, were are going to brake, how long,
Mr. Plummer: An hour --------
Mayor Ferre: Can we break for 45 minutes?, --let's say a half hour and
that way it will be 45 minutes.
RECESS: The Commission recessed at 2:05 P.M. and reconvened at 2:45 P.M.
with all members present except Rev. Gibson and Commissioner Reboso.
Mayor Ferre: I am sure the Commissioners will be coming in in a moment,
the next speaker, and I am going to have to jump around again, because some
people have some time commitments I'll just have to make that judgement.
Mr. Silver; Mr. Southern, please swear the witness.
Mr. Javier Bray: My name Javier Bray, 11325, 53rd Terrace. I am appearing
here as Chairman of the Spanish American League Against Discrimination.
Mr. Plummer: I'll have to object Mr. Bray, I am sorry, I do feel that
two other members of this commission, --we should wait out of a matter of courtesy,
the Mayor can send Louis out to find them, so let's wait a couple of minutes
so everyone can have the benefit of what you have to say.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor while we are waiting, may I ask how long you intend
to carry the meeting on today.
5b NOV 271974
Mayor Ferre: I made a cof i.ttnent it would be between 5 and 6,
I'll try to hold it as close to 5 as possible, that only leaves us two hours.
We are going to Mr. Bray, then Mrs. Schwartz, then back to the regular agenda
which is Robert Rowaski then Sgt. Salerno and then to Otis Davis, and right
down the line as far as we can go.
Mrs. Gordon: You are seiting a time regardless of whether all the persons
have been heard?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, we are going to set 5'o'clock hopefully but not
later than 6, the very latest.
Mrs. Gordon: If we are not through I will be leaving.
Mayor Ferre: What time do you have to leave?
Mrs. Gordon: I have an earlier one, but I will stay until then, 5,---
Mayor Ferre:We will try, if we happen to be on something very controversial
-------,we may have to go over 15 or 20 minutes,
Let's proceed with Mr. Bray,
Mr. Bray: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, I think the point
of the under -representation of minorities have been belabored in the terms
of the entire public sector. We are not only speaking about the police force
and I think we all have to agree with the statement that has been read over and
over again that the community at large is misrepresented on the police force,
that I think this is an area that needs a great deal of attention because as
long as the community is misrepresented in the protected service area, they
are going to have an awful lot of trouble in keeping and enforcing the laws.
I think this is a critical area and which there should be a great deal of affinity
and harmony between the community and this branch of the government that provides
a very essential service to the community. We have been analyzing only the ethnic
composition on the force, but this is not the only variable we should be focusing
on. We cannot ignore that because of the segregated patterns of our life-style
in housing, where we find here that in the city of Miami the police force specifically
about 88% of the entire force resides outside of the city limits.
Mayor Ferre: Where did you get these facts?
Mr. Bray: I have extrapolated some data analyzing exactly the list
that I have had hold of, the people attending the LEAA program and out of
76 names of white officers attending at the present time, enrolled in the
classes, and the LEAA program only 6 out of 76 reside within the City limits.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Bray what bearing does that have on whether a policeman
is a good policeman or not, I fail to correlate any semblance that makes a man
a good policeman or not a good policeman because I have thought for a long time
on this commission as I think Mrs. Gordon will tell you, I have never had an
objection to a woman holding a post, or any segment of the community. J.L
Plummer wants for his city one thing, the finest persons available at the time
to do the job specified. I fail to see where a person who lives in the City of
Miami or Dade County, it has any bearing on his being a good policeman or not.
Mr. Bray: I think, sir, that for anyone providing any kind of public
service, as the clients they relate to are not good enough to be their neighbors
I don 't think they are good enough to be their brother's keeper either. And I
think that when we have this kind of mentality that is reinforced precisely
because of our segrated life-style and patterns that have been established and
practically consolidated in the housing, we are not going to be able to have
the kind of human relations that is necessary in order for the law enforcement
officers to do a good job. I think you have heard stories as I have of many
officers that when they have any kind of difficulty with their piers in the
police force, what they have to do is to go on patrol in areas that are un-
desirable to all, and that specifically means the Black and Latin community
for those who do not relate to those people as their equals or have identity
with.
Mr. Plummer: I can appreciate and understand the thinking that it would
be preferable to have Black officers in black areas, more importantly, Spanish
officers in predominately Spanish for the language barrier,but I don't relate the
57
NOV 271974
place of residence as an important criteria.
Mr. Bray: Other places are beginning to do that, Washington D.C. has
moved into that kind of category, in order to provide services in the
District of Columbia's police force, you have to be a resident of the
District of Columbia. I think that Atlanta, according to Mr. Siceloff
told me this morning or yesterday, that they moving in this direction,
they are considering this. I am just throwing this as another variable
because in here the representation of residents of the city of Miami on
the police force, is so small, that I think this is very significant, and
I think we ought to start looking at this area in order to place major
emphasis on the recruitment drive and in the up -grading of present officers
on the force.
I don't think there is very much more to be said at this point. My
data is still being worked out, I have used only lOX if you will, of the
entire force, in order to establish or come to this conclusion, that I think
this is an area that the commission, the recruitment, particularly in the
terms recruitment, and very much so the LEAA program ought to look into it.
At least this is the kind of recommendation that I am bringing to the LEAA
program, answering an invitation that they have issued to me, in terms of par-
ticipating in their advisory counsel I suppose and I am making this recommendation
not in the spirit of throwing in a monkey wrench into the established patterns
of thinking here but rather to look into solutions. From what I heard this
morning, I think the City Manages is aware of this question of the tremendous
imbalance that there is between residency under force and all these problems
of minority representation. It follows that if we follow a more strict observation
of residency, and preparing the residents of the City of Miami to join the force
I think we would have had already a more equitable ethnic balance which is what
the court order is looking for.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you Mr. Bray, and I want to again repeat the reason
Mr. Bray is speaking now is because he has another commitment and must leave,
he was going to speak during the LEAA grant portion Tri Cultural program. Any
questions of Mr. Bray?
Mr. Bray: Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: All right Mrs, Schwarts;-----
Mr. Silver: Will the swear Mrs. Schwartz in, please,
Mayor Ferre: Mrs. Schwartz, let me ask you, what you are going to say
is really part of LEAA grant, could you stay a little while longer, I hate
to impose on you this way, we can go back to officer Robert Kowaski, we
are jumping around in different areas, and I apologize for that.
Officer Robert Kowaski: My name is Robert Kowaski,1015 Sultan Ave.
Opa-locka.
4
Mayor Ferre:Officer Kowaski, you and I met on one occasion that I remember.
It was early November and you came over to my office in downtown and we discussed
some area that you thought were'problematical within the department. As I recall
it was of your own initiative that you came.
Officer Robert Kowaski: Mrs. Eisenberg talked to me and got in touch
with your office.
or somehow. 1 have only met with you one time, is that correct?
Mayor Ferre: Mrs. Eisenberg talked to you, she called or you called
Officer Kowaski: That is correct.
Mayor Ferre: At that time you gave me a written list which Mr. Silver
has given you. Do you have that in your possession now?
Officer Kowaski: Yes I do.
Mayor Ferre: Is that a true copy of the listycu gave me?
Officer Kowaski: Yes, it is.
Mayor Ferre: I think the best thing for you to do is make you statement
58 NOV '2 71974
•
and I would appreciate it if you would make it just like you told me.
Officer Kowaski: Let me first state these are not only ny grievances
but grievances Of most of the police department, most of the policemen
I have talked to. In the past two or three weeks I have talked to approximately
between 85 and 100 police officers.
Mayor Ferre: 85 to 100,---
Officer Kowaski: Yea, sir, and they all have the same complaints
I do, so it is not just my opinion or gripes or bitches . The biggest
thing that most of the men complain about, there are no lines of communication.
Mr. Silver: Will you please speak into the mike,
Officer Kowaski:-----there are no lines of communication, an officer
is not allowed to take an agrievance about his Sergeant. If you have a problem
with a particular Sergeant, you have no one you can really talk to. Ydu have
to find another Sergeant and that is going above him. If you can't straighten
it out with him, you've got problems.
Mayor Ferre: If you have problems with the Sergeant you are dealing with
you've got problems.
Officer Kowaski: Yes, the only way you can get out is to move out of the
unit. Say you are in radio patrol, you have to try and get out of the midnight
shift and go to the afternoon shift. Altao superiors most of the time don't want
to back you, whether you are right or wrong. The fear of what is coming down
on them, like a Sergeant won't turn around and give you permission to do something
without first contacting his Lieutenant, then getting in touch with the Major.
It is quasi -military, which I can understand, but a lot of times you need a
decision from the Sergeant and he won't give it to you. You have to make your
own decision, your tail has caught on fire. The biggest thing is, don't make
any waves, just take a stand, if there is something you don't like , you can't
turn around and say that, like I know I am going to catch a lot of heat from just
being here when I get back, but I have nothing to lose. I have talked to other
officers, I asked a lot of officers to come with me, in the hallway they talk
and grumble but get them to come down here, they don't want to because they
are afraid of losing their job, they have wives and families. They don't want
to get put in a high crime area; working midnights in Liberty City. I worked
in Liberty City for nine and one half months, midnights, so there is nothing
they can do to me.
Mayor Ferre: Let me understand what you are saying. In other words, you
are saying that that is used as a form of punishment?
Officer Kowaski: Sometimes, yes, ----
Mayor Ferre: In other words if you don't ----if you get in trouble, it
is your opinion that one of the ways that an officer is disciplined by being
sent to a Black area.
Officer Kowaski:Not only Black, --I had some particular things to happen
to me, I was working decorators•row for nine and one half months, they turned
around and asked me if I liked where I was working. I said yes, very much so,
then the following week they put me in Allapattah, down on 37th Street and
17th Avenue N.W. and I mentioned to all the people I had been working for
the last nine and half months, if I had been doing a good job that I was
leaving. I got 35 letters from all the people down there including the President
of the association, and Lieutenant and Sergeant and three or four persons had
to go down there, it took them three days to get them to explain to each one
of these businessmen why they were losing me. I am working down there on Saturdays
and Sundays. Decorator's Row is closed on Saturdays and Sundays. It was to please
the business owners. I am now working Allapattah one day, Sunday they stick me
wherever they want to, 1 am an alternate. I got a little seniority, I have been
on three wheels for a year andea half, I have been in the department for three
Years. There are guys that have just come over there that have week -ends off,
a good cone, and I can't do any work. When I don't do any work, I get a reprimand.
I've got bad evaluations for the past three months for not doing any work, but
they don't understand this. You can't do work if you are not in one zone all the
title. You don't know what the businessmen are doing. You can't become familiar
51-1
NOV 271974
with them. In my particular job,I am familiar with public relations, I have
to know the people I am working for. Another problem, you have your
plain tlotheb, vice and narcotics, we don't get information filtered down
to us. If a raid is going down we dont know about it unless we stumble onto
it. Instead of giving us activities of, ----narcotics, or drugs are being sold,
we are the last ones to know, where we could be helping them. Each unit has
their own little clique, instead of everybody working together.
Mayor Ferre: I might point out that some of this, Mr. Andrews came out
and we are not getting into the Cook case here but some of it came out on the
question of the relationship between, is it vice and narcotics, and the regular
beat, you know, the lack of coordination or information.
Officer Kowaski: Another thing is like equipment, we don't have funds
or whatever to get equipment. I have been on three wheels for a year and half
now, and we don't have rain gear.
Mayor Ferre: What do you mean, you don't have rain gear?
Officer Kowaski: Rain gear, rain suit, a top and a pair of pants, plastic
----orange in color.
Mayor Ferre: Have you requested that?
Officer Kowaski: Yes, sir, ------we have 34 men in our unit, and I believe
7 or 8 of them have it.
Mayor Ferre:---out of 34?
Officer Kowaski: Yes, sir,
Mayor Ferre:When did you request rain gear?
Officer Kowaski: From the day I got on the unit, which is about a year
and a half ago, until about 4 weeks ago, the last time asked for them.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, I think this is something we have to address
ourselves to. If I understand what this man is saying, here is a policeman who
is asking for rain gear for a year and a half, 7 got it and 34 did not, that
means there are 27 that didn't, and they are out working and required in rain
conditions without rain gear, and, we are worrying about four million dollars
in computers?
Mr. Andrews: I have to accept in just listening to what this officer
is saying, I don't know if it is two or twenty-seven, I am accepting what
he is saying, ---
Mayor Ferre: Like J.L. Plummer said earlier today, I want to see an
answer to that real quick, it seems to me incredible that an officer is asked
to work under conditions, he has been asking for rain gear for a year and a half
----if it is true, hasn't gotten it, and we are talking about spenging 5 or
6 million dollars for a building, and 4 million dollars for computers, and asking
for all this fancy equipment and can't give a policeman a rain coat? It is
hard to understand.
Officer Kowaski: Uniforms are another thing we have a bad problem with.
We just got new uniforms, so we have 8 shirts and 8 pairs of pants, but you have
to wear those so many times , and they rip very easily, they are not really
quality uniforms and there is no way to get more uniforms. I have worn the same
uniforms for three years, and mine are torn and they have been sewn up three or
four times in the crotch where you ride on the bike and they rip,and you have
to take another pair, and you ask can I get more uniforms, yes, sure, go down
there, they cost $14,00 a pair, for a pants, there should be a stock pile where
if you need something just go down and pick it up. If it is an extra hat we need,
that we lose a hat, we don't have to turn atound and put in a requisition for it,
and get it to the Sergeant, the supervisor, then the City Manager's office
so we can turn around and get more equipment.
Publicity is another thing that is hurting our department, as far as the
paper, Channel 7,---most of the T.V. stations, we have a lot of problems with
them. If something happens in the county, you never hear about it, but for some
reason, every time something goes wrong with Miami, a small or big incident, we
'r
61.1 Nov 2 71974
are the ones that it comes down on, instead of taking care of our own problems
i We have abig problem as far as like our supervisors and our uniforms,----
I have been told many times and I know most most of the officers, as far as
out in the street, --your hat, if you are chasing someone, and your hat falls
off, ----I know these ara small and petty things, but they are big things among
the men, if you lose your hat While you are chasing someone, and you come back
to your car, and there is a supervisor on the scene, he is going to jump out
and jump down your back, 'where is your hat' ---they are more worried about
your appearance at that particular time than they are did you get the guy,
and this has happened Many times. It happened to me two or three times.
Right now, with all the trouble that is going on in the department, the policemen
are afraid to go out and work, they are afraid of the consequences, they don't
want to go and make a unless they absolutely have to they don;t
want to take the chance of getting reprimanded getting fired, putting on the
carpet, going before internal security, and this is the feeling of most of
the police I know. Policemen who work downtown don't want to get involved
anymore. The new Chief, Chief Watkins was down there last Sunday, and sat
on a bus bench, not the bus bench but in front of Jesu Church, on the steps
and he was waiting for a policeman to come by to see if they would check him,
policemen are afraid to do anything. The court system, I know this has nothing to
do with us, but it is something that we have to put up with, something we are
upset about. We turn in the prostitutes and drunks and they are out before we
get off our tour of duty, I heard you say about the prostitutes on the
Boulevard, how can we keep them in if the courts let them out. There is
nothing we can really do about it, it is a revolving door system.
Legal services for officers, I don't know if you are familiar with
this, you, each person in this room has more rights than the police officer
does, we have no rights, when it cones to irternat security or anything else,
where every person in this room has more freedom that we do. We are actually
guilty until proven innocent.
I have been in front of internal security once or twice, so has most
of the police department, and you walk in there and you are wrong, and you
have to prove you are right, in doing whatever you did, and they don't give
you an opportunity to take a polygraph or anything like that, they just say
we heard this or heard that, it is changing quite a bit since they changed
supervisors, I think it is a lot better, but in the past it was really bad.
They were setting up policemen, and the street has enough problems with
criminals and every thing else, than to have to keep looking over his shoulder
seeing if he is being photographed or something.
There is another problem as far as within the station, the complaint
clerk and dispatchers getting information straight. I am bringing this up
because I had another incident downtown, it was 708 N.E. 2nd Ave. this
Cuban gentleman had been robbed and they didn't understand him over the
radio, it took 20 minutes from the time he was robbed until the time I got
the call, I was there 30 seconds after I got the call, but it took the complaint
room and the dispatchers 20 minutes to notify me, by then the had
been long gone, and the academy is lowering the standards as several people
have already discussed as far as the Blacks and Latins are able to graduate,
and I know an instructor in the academy, his name is Jim Down, he is a Hialeah
policeman, but he is also a training instructor and he was telling me the
reason he got out of that was because he was told that the Blacks and the
Latins have to pass, which is ri.diculous.There is no sense in lowering the
standards, --I have friends who are Blacks, and friends that are Latins, but
they all went through the same academy I did, and there is no reason why Rev.
Gibson for instance can't turn around and pass the same standards I took, just
because he is Black. I am Polish, I am the biggest minority in this room right
now, and a policeman to boot.
Rev. Gibson: The difference between your minority and my minority
----mine is a visible minority. All you have to do is take your money and
you can be merged.
Mayor Ferre: Officer Kowaski let me ask you, ---you didn't cover
Officer Steel, ------gets paid for 10 hours, no more and no less,
Officer Kowaski: That goes with the policy of not wanting to make
an arrest. They figure if they just put their 10 hours in, and if they
see something happening, fine, but they don't want to go out and look for it
like they used to.
Mayor Ferre: You also said poor supervision, only around when in trouble
61 NOV 2 71974
• •
who you know rather than ability, ---you didn't touch on that.
Officer Kowaski:---if you want to get into a specialized unit, whether
narcotics, K-9, --motors is a big thing. If you know someone in motors like
a Lieutenant of Sergeant, to actually get into a certain department
you have to turn around and follow these Sergeants around and make yourself
known, then turn around and looking and seeing what you have done.
Mayor Ferre: All right, any questions, Mr. Andrews, Officer Kowaski
didn't mention and I can't tell you that he told me that day because I really
don't remember, but somebody in these discussions told me that in the past
walking a beat id also a form of discipline. Is that just rumor.
Mr.Plummer: Mr. Mayor I'll bring you and the Manager up-to-date, okay.
Both of you pennyweights wern't around in the old days, Mr. Mayor there were
certain beats in this city that used to exist that there was no question. If
you were a bad boy in the police department, you walked Seaboard beat, that
was the beat where you got the best chance of getting hell knocked out of you,
that was the punishment beat. You could walk the old beat at 12th Avenue
and Flagler Street where you got insulted by drunks all night, the old Little
River Gang beat used to be another one, but that is long gone. Today, downtown
in the beats, and the traffic men, I would venture to say of all the traffic
men down there you'd have to fight them to get it off, because they like it
and enjoy it.
Mayor Ferre: He mentioned something which I think has come out in a lot
of police studies, at least the ones I have been reading. He said that he was
most effective where he knows the people, and in particular, in the City of
New York, there has been an awful lot work, experimental work in working on
the theory that a police officer works best when he is acquainted with the
people of the neighborhood or of the area. This is a matter of philosophy
of course within the department, but I would be curious to know whether the
leadership in the department, ---I think that is effective, or whether it is
too experimental or too inconclusive at this point, and that is a question you
can answer later on, would you include that among the things that you are going
to be
Mr. Plummer: Not of Officer Kawaski, but I was going to bring this up
at the Dade League, Mr. Manager, or Mr. City Attorney, ----I think the time
has come, one area he touches on here and Chief Garmire himself testified
here one day before this commission, I think it .might be smart if we take
an indepth look at this time, about a thing that was passed by the legislature
which I think in my knowledge of the area has been very detrimental to this
city and to all cities. This voter registration and one dollar bonding, now
I am not going into it today, but I think Mr. Mayor, we have heard enough
testimony to know and the one documented case the police department has, of
the drunk that was arrested three or four times, down in front of your building
on Biscayne Blvd. it was told to me, ----I think it has come across very clear
that there needs to be another look taken into this area and possibly this city
through its lobbyist in the next legislature and through the Dade League with
their lobbyist could prevail upon the legislature and show documented facts that
for example like I think it was Chief Garmire that told us that the prostitute
carried 5, 6 or 7 voter registration cards with a dollar stapled to them so the
minute they hit the jail, they produced one of them and were back out on the
street again, so I think it behooves the Manager, and the attorney to take a
fresh look at this, immediately because the legislature opens in April, that
we might want to sponsor some legislation to repeal, or at best, alter, this
voter registration bail system, because there is no question in our particular
city, --it has had a detrimental effect, so I give that to you for what it is
worth, and I hope you will follow through.
Mayor Ferre: Any other questions? Thank you very much Officer Kawaski.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor we might if you want take a minute unless it is
refuting the words of Officer Kowaski, let the City Manager speak so we won't
be accused of letting our policemen run around naked, tell us what the policy
is of the issuance of uniforms.
Mr. Andrews: We have issued, and I assume that this officer has been issued,
or will be issued, 8 new shirts this year , and 3 new pairs of trousers, to compliment
the uniforms he has. When an officer tears a shirt or trouser, and can demonstrate
62
NOV 271974
this was done in the line of duty, that is replaced, or repaired. I am not
completely knowledgeable of everything in the area of the uniform requirements
and 1 think we can hear from Chief, --can you add to that? --as far as the
issuance of uniforms, so we think we treat our officers rather generously
as far as making sure they have the proper uniforms.
Asat. Police Chief Kenneth Fox: I am Kenneth Fox Asst. Chief of police
in the Administration division. The last contract the city had with a uniform
supplier expired at the end of 1973, and it was several month before a new
contract could be negotiated for a number of reasons. Nonetheless, the new
contract went into effect about mid -year and it is due to run until the end
of 1975. We did purchase under the new contract four new uniform shirts out
of last year's budgeted funds prior to September 30. for every officer on
the department, every uniformed officer. Then beginning October 1st, we pur-
chased an additional four dark shirts, so a total of 8 shirts had been issued
to each uniformed officer, and in addition to that we bought 3 pairs of
trousers, so that is the current compliment of uniforms from new dark shirts
also the rain gear is part of the contract, and that is issued to every uniformed
officer in the department and 'don't know why this officer was not issued rain
gear. Perhaps he hasn't gone to get it, I don't know.
Mr. Plummer: Let met ask you this, three pair of pants to me is not
reasonable, okay, my personal opinion.
Chief Fox: Commissioner that is in addition to the trousers they already
have, these are additional trousers.
Mr.,Plurmner: Just the shirts were changed, right.
Chief Fox: We changed the shirts, right.
Mr. Plummer: What do they get each year, normally. Four shirts and
four pants?
Chief Fox: No, the trousers are normally, three trousers,
Mr. Plummer: ----four and three?
Chief Fox: Yes, ----
Mr. Plummer: Okay, Mr. Andrews may I make one other point to you,
then I'll get off this area and you might listen to this. I fought for
two years to get the changing of the colors of the shirts from white to blue,
because I happen to agree with a few men who made the statement that they were
fine targets at night with the white shirts. From what I am told, the weight of
the shirt is uniform for both summer and winter. I think our climate down here
demands that we have two weights in shirts. I think you should have a light
weight and a winter shirt.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Sgt. Salerno, --
Mr. Silver: Will you state your name and address,--
Sgt. Charles Salerno: I am Sgt. Charles A. Salerno, 11820 SW 186 Street,
I am employed by the City of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: I asked Sgt. Salerno to be here today because back in
--I guess it must have been May, you issued the statement and I have been
looking all over for that statement and I don't happen to have a copy of it.
I am sure you remember the statement.
Sgt. Salerno: I think I remember the one you are referring to.
Mayor Ferre: It was a public statement about basic problems that you
saw in the police department, and I don't know if you made that statement
individually or in your official capacity, and I just wanted to know from
you, if you still felt the same way, and if you wanted to expand on any of
these problems as you see them.
Sgt. Salerno: If I am correct in my assumption as to which statement
it was, it was one made shortly after the grand jury report which criticized
the department and the Chief and,in response to a press conference held by the
63
NOV 2 71974
tip
Chief. As I recall, this is cff the top of my memory. I rebutted some of
the Chief's redarks with resvect to the advances he had brought about as
Chief of Police. He talked it areas of pay increases, he talked in areas
of a new procedure which I took offence with because these were item which
were negotiated with the City Manager's office by the employee organization
and Were not a direct result of any action the Chief had taken, plus the fact
that we had had a problem, we still do have a problem, morale wise, within
the department. I think rather than belaboring that issue, I don't think anybody
who has any reasonable doubts at all, will deny the fact that the police department
at present has got some problems, some serious, some minor. The problems do exist.
The problem of morale has been in sty estimation, maybe I was too close to
the forest, and saw the bad trees not the good ones, in my estimation the morale
problem at the police department has been on decline for several years, maybe
preceding Chief Garmire's arrival, it has degenerated at a higher level, or
rather a higher rate, within the last two years, and I think it encompasses
many things, for the internal forces and external forces. You have heard some
of the internal reasons in the last two meetings we have had, or at least in
this one today. Other external forces has been the court situation, the fact
that an officer has to spend many, many hours in court and maybe never have
the case heard, and have to go back two or three times, may see his work in
building a case be washed out because of a technicality in the court room
or have a man who has been arrested many many times of serious crimes, be
turned loose on probation, or whatever the reason is. That is part of the
problem. Part of the problem has been the increase of assault upon police
officers. We hear a lot about police brutality, we hear very little about
civilian brutality towards police officers, the alarming increase in the
rate of attacks on police officers both physical and deadly attacks on
police officers has been skyrocketing over the past 4 years. This has
helped create the morale problem, and I think it would be less than candid
if I didn't say that some of the problems in the Miami police department
stem from actions taken by hierarchy from the City government, and I don't
want to shake fingers, but we have had problems with, -----in order for an
individual to get what he felt was right, under Civil Service or under normal
procedures, that we had to take him into court to get that benefit. Now we
have one case pending, just completed another case, looks like we may be forced
to a third case, here we have situations, I'll give you an example, fDr
many years the police department utilized a time bank where each member donates
one of his earned over -time days so that if he gets sick, not in the line of
duty but a prolonged illness, he must use up all his time. He can draw on this
time bank and not go off payroll for 60 days. This went along fine, and all of
a sudden it was challenged, was suspended, the City Manager reviewed it, re -instated
it, three individuals in the process were caught up in this freeze, lost something
like 30 days a piece in pay, the Manager through the policy, we
tried to reclaim this time for the three individuals, and now we find out the
whole process is being challenged again as being illegal and may be negated,
this has caused a great deal of consternation.
The Sergeant's examination suit which we had to file, where the Chief
in our estimation indiscriminately abolished 10 positions, and then requested
6 new ones in the new budget, meanwhile the list died and he is ready to go,
----the suit is presently pending in court now.
Mayor Ferre: Where does he stand now?
Mr. Lloyd: I can answer that. Thatin coninst up for final hearing on
December 16.
Mayor Ferre: Who is the Judge:
Mr. Lloyd: It is Judge Ernest.
Mr. Plummer: Is this on appeal?
Mr. Lloyd: Oh, no, this is the original suit.
Mr. Plummer: Why did I somewhere state that this thing had been ironed
out before the Commission.
Mr. Andrews: May I offer this to the commission, Mr. Mayor and members
of the commission, for 10 years the grandfather positions on the sergeants
were filled, in January of 1973,---is that about the right time, --a decision
was made January or February, in the middle of a register to terminate this
process, and that continued for some months and when it was brought to my
attention, when 1 became City Manager, I reviewed this, and felt that if the
64 NOV 271974
the City after 10 year of having these grandfathered positions in place,
Trade those kind of decisions it could certainly wait until the register
had run its life befote we abolished the positions, and I made a decision
Subject to theCity Attorney'e legal opinion that this could be accomplished
this way, reinstated those individuals so they could fill the vacancies
of the sergeant, the City Attorney upon review of this found legally that this
was not possible and this involved the court challenge or the suit by the
officers in question.
Mr. Plummer: I thought it also addressed itself to the 6 temporary
sergeants that were made.
Mr. Andrews: No. ---
Mr. Plummer: That is not involved in this suit?
Mr. Lloyd: Just so we don't get mistaken about this, it is the contention
of the law department that that positions are not grandfathered only the
persons in those positions.
Mayor Ferre:Go ahead Sgt.
Sgt. Salerno: I just got out of bed to come up here. These are some of
the external forces. I think the police department faces a mammoth task of
trying to pull together and get it back to where it was. You spoke earlier
Mr. Mayor about the fire department being rated No. 1. Well we don't rate the
police department but in my traveling around this country, as an organizational
president, I have run into a great many of them. Many of them as a large
and I'll stack our police officers up against any department in the country,
as far as ability, as far as dedication is concerned.
Mayor Ferre: Are you talking about the officer, or the department?
Sgt. Salerno: I am talking about the department in general, with the
people involved.
•
Mayor Ferre: There is a difference, I happen to be one who belives that
the officers involved, that we have a first -class, ---in my mind there is no
questions about that. I am not Calking about the officers, I think there :Is a
distinction between the officers; and the department.
Sgt. Salerno: I think you would have a hard time differentiating between
the department,where you are speaking as a group as a group, rather than as
individuals. I am speaking of the people in the organization that have the ability
to do have the ability to do certain things.
Mayor Ferre: I don't want to start bringing up things again, but again
back to the Jacob's report. The Jacob's report and Sir John both say
that. They say the individual officers that we have surveyed in the City of
Miami are excellent. Then they talk about the direction and the administration
and the type of leadership that they have, and that is when they start questioning.
Sgt. Salerno: I'll grant you that there has been a problem there and
we are hoping that that will be filled soon. I think one of the major concerns
now of the individual officers is that we don't have a overdrawn period of
time where wo don't have an actual head. The Manager has appointed a temporary
Chief of Police, but I think that delaying excessively the appointing of a
permanent chief, could be very damaging to the department.
Mr. Plummer: I was just saying to the Mayor earlier, you wern't here,
I am going to make a motion at 5:00 o'clock to that effect.
Sgt. Salerno: Thank you. That is all I have to say unless there are
questions.
Rev. Gibson: He spoke about time. I want to make sure I understand it,
because I have been a proponent of getting all this time. It cost the city,
and all you had to do was watch and see what happened when the Manager
retired. I also feel if you work lots, you ought to get a vacation and
refurbish, refuel yourself and come back here new to do a better job. I am
hoping that isn't what you are talking about.
6J NOV 271974
•
Sgt. Salerno: We have a day bank set up in the department where every
member donates his overtime, not vacation time, overtime. This time sits in the
pool, it is irretruevable, once you give it up, you can't get it back, but
suppose tomorrow, I came down with a severe illness. I couldn't work for 6 months,
and had used up all my time. Either I drop off payroll or I call on this time
bank to carry me for a little longer, and in many cases this has been a thing
that saves our employees from going off payroll until they are well enough to
come back to work. It has nothing to do with vacation time.
Rev. Gibson: I want to make sure because I didn't want those guys getting
it on both ends.
Mayor Ferre: Sgt. Salerno, before I ask this question I want to say on
public record that I know some of these newspaper reports in the minds of some
people, you personally have been under question. I want to publicly state, --
I don't know you that well, but I have known you for about 7 or 8 years, and
I want to state on record that I personally believe in your quality as an
officer and a man of integrity. I am talking about you, I happen to believe
in you, and I think you are an honest man, and I think you try to do the best
under whatever circumstances, not saying you always do right. I am saying you
try to do the best under the circunstances.
I want to ask you, in your opinion, whether you think your organization
is cognizant of the federal laws, and the mandate of the federal court, under
this agreement,and whether or not you, and I know it is a difficult question
to ask you to compare yourself with any other paternal organization, but I think
that what the results of what the firemen are doing is, evident, and my question,
and it is a tough question, --is whether you think in your opinon why your organi-
zation recognizes it to, will respond in similar fashion, that the fire organi-
zation responded, ----the fraternal order of police,
Sgt. Salerno: I think we have already started on that. Last Friday,
a group of officers from the fraternal Order of Police, from the Miami
Community T.V., the Miami P.B.A. , from the Miami Police Department Hispanic
American Confederation met with just that type of intention in mind. The leaders
of the four groups, got together to try to resolve differences to see what we could
do, not only to bring ourselves closer together but to unify the department
again. One of the things that we did come up with, which will be released very
shortly, is in the area of recruitment, and I think you will see more of the
united drive rather than just an F.O.P. drive, as though the F.O.P. represents
about 97% of the department, we also realize that we cannot speak as well for
the special interest groups as they can for themselves, so to speak, the Latins,
so to speak, the Blacks. We really can't put ourselves in their position --they
can, and we are hoping that with this type of counsel involved, that we can
come up with some solutions, maybe before problems get started. All I can project
of this, I hope is big expectations.
Mayor Ferre: So in other words, what you are saying is that you think
there is recognition of the law and there is intent to comply with this and
get on with the job.
Sgt. Salerno: As far as we are concerned Mr. Mayor , there has never
been a doubt of the law, we have had nothing to do with it to begin with.
Mayor Ferre: Let me use the words of that report again, 'commitment', --
those two words get right to the heart of it, let's see if I can find it again,
'without a commitment to possitive minority recruitment programs', --it is not
likely the problem will be solved without a commitment to possitive minority
recruitment programs. Do you think that this will formulate itself what you
are talking about in the last couple of weeks of this meeting, into a commitment
to possitive minority recruitment programs.
Sgt. Salerno: I believe the commitments there,--Ithink what we need
is channel.
Mayor Ferre: What do you mean by channel?
Sgt. Salerno: We are committed to do something now, how is the best
way to do it. What do we do, what actions do we take?
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor let me raise this question. Some years ago
6
NOV 271974
in our church, We had a Black outfit and a white. Rev. decided
that we were going to have one church, one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
let me say to this commission, what you need to be concerned about,
if you have three organizations, you have to deal with three different groups
and you have to make three different decisions. Now, my brothers, what I atn
saying to you is, as a commissioner, I would feel much better if we start
talking the court order, ----that court order is talking about'one church, one
Lord, one faith' ---you see that is why you have the conflict, and in that
police department, ----I don't know police work, ----the Black side will protect
their house, the Latins are going to protect their house, and white, Anglo-
saxon Americans are going to protect their house. Until we have one house to
protect, we are going to be in plenty of trouble.I hope you remember that,insten'
of having three groups, you need to have 'a' group, one group, so that one group
will start talking about what is good and best for mine.
I am concerned that this man is talking about a 'bank time', I don't
know if this is the place to talk about it, but if this could be done without
harm and damage, to the City considerably so, I am not so sure that he doesn't
have a legitimate request, and concern.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, I understand this
problem real well, and I beg of you at this time not to ask the City Attorney
for an opinion this and I'll get back together with the organizations because
the way it is structured now, if we force an opinion from the City Attorney
we may not be able to do it. And I don't want to ask him for an opinion.
Rev. Gibson: I'll tell you what I would like for you to do. You know,
just like we bring these people up here and we air all the bad, and cuss
out everybody, I think Mr. Mayor, when we hear something that hurts these
men, and we could do something about it, we ought to be just affirmative and
anxious. Now, if you have a time bank and I hope Mr. Andrews, since that is
your thing, I hope you are going to take the thing, run with it, and at a
appropriate time and these men don't want you to wait until 'Junevember'
to come back and address that issue, of that time bank. I hope they could
get it within a reasonable length of time. What do you call reasonable?
Mr. Andrews: I usually give you a time commitment but I am not going to
give you one on that, and I'll beg your indulgence and Sgt. Salerno knows
that I react to these things within a reasonable length of time. If he is
satisfied, I will be.
Rev. Gibson: Sgt. I am going to make a commitment to you, if you
don't hear anything in 30 days, as this train is moving, and if you
said something to me, you just have to say to me out there, when I come
back up here, I am going to raise it again.
Mr. Plummer: Charlie, let me ask a question of you if I may. I am
bothered by one thing, because maybe I was under a falce impression. In
your contract, your organization, the grievance procedure, Mr. Andrews
bring me up-to-date, isn't that grievance procedure broad enough that if
we had an officer who came here today, his grievance, in his mind, whether
they are real or not, in his mind they are a problem. Okay? Now, isn't the
grievance procedure through the contract sufficient latitude that he could come
to you or your organization, if he was a member, and I taking him based on
the 97%, that if something is much of a problem, that this grievance committee
could then address either directly the Manager, or the commission, or the
Chief, wherever it happened to be. I am talking about circumventing all the
middlemen. Is your grievance procedure sufficient in latitude for the average
policeman on the street to use that vehicle?
Sgt. Salerno: To begin with, the grievance procedure in the contract
Mr.Plummer is only for the application of provisions of the contract, nothing
else. There is a grievance procedure set by the manager's office by directive
which could be followed. In addition to that where the grievances are of a
departmental nature as president of the organization, 1 have done it on many
occasions where it was brought to my attention. I could go to the chief and
say this is a problem, can we do something. I don't always get it done, at
least I used to get it heard and occasionally was resolved there. There are
several avenues that can be taken on that type of agreement, including the
Manager's grievance procedure which is external from the contract.
67
Mr. Plummer:I know they have the thing throu;:f channels in the
departMent Paul j ---
Mr. Andrews: May I interrupt you a moment, and I'll speak to it.
This directive is of long standing, well documented and if necessary we may
have to post this document on all the bulletin board and make everyone re -acquainted
with if they have lost sight of how to utilize it, but it is a way that the
employee who is agrieved can go through entire chain and even arrive at the
City Manager's office where the City Manager will see him if tht is necessary.
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me Mr. Manager for interrupting at this point, it is
almost 4 o'clock and if we are going to live up to that commitment of 5 o'clock
we are obviously not going to get it.We are going to have to release all these
people.
Mr. Plummer: Mr.Mayor my suggestion to you is that we release the people
as it relates on the agenda from communications, identification bureau, and
report processing, and hopefully we can get through the other people to hear
the citizens request.
Mayor Ferre: I'll tell you what we are going to do, with all due respects
with officer Davis, Bob Simms and Oscar Agul and the people in LEAA. The people
in communications, I.D. bureau and report processing if you want to leave, go
ahead. We will have to leave this for another day.
Citizens request, now, Florence Wills is still here. She has sat patiently
all through this and I am embarrassed to tell her to come back some other day,
so I think we are going to have to ask Florence Wills and George Arias, he
has patiently sat through today and the previous day, so I think we ought to hear
him. Is Officer Ed Wright here? Do you want to be heard Officer Wright?
Is here?
Mr. Plummer: Has anybody seen him here.
Mayor Ferre: Is Perez here?
Mr. Plummer: No, -----
Is he here?
Mr. Reboso: Mr. Mayor, I have a quick answer to Sgt. Salerno. Sgt. will
your organization be against the: appointment of a Latin Major by the Chief
of Police, or the City Manager.
Sgt. Salerno: No, but let me qualify that. I am not opposed to the
appointment of anybody that is qualified to the job. I am sure my organization
feels, we don't want tokenisms. We don't want to appoint somebody just for the
sake of appointing because he is a minority. If a man is qualified, if a woman
is. qualified, more power to them, then we should have them, but I know this has
been a bone of contention in the past. We don't want tokenism, we don't want
to say we have a 'token' Black, or 'token' Latin or 'token' femal on the staff.
We want people on that staff who are going to be part of it, participate in it,
and be effective in what they are doing.
Mayor Ferre: Are you implying in any way that Major Smith is 'token?'
Sgt. Salerno: I am going to have to say yes, he was appointed as a
'token' because he was the only one that could qualify under even the
rank structure at that time, and there would be no change.
Mayor Ferre: That is not one of the areas that we have outlined today
but I recommend that the Manager look into the responsibilities of Major
Smith.
Mr. Andrews: Look into what Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Ferre: Look into what he is actually doing.
Rev. Gibson: I want to say this, Sgt. we may not be together on this.
In my younger days, I was opposed to tokenism, --I really was, I thought
it was disgraceful discrediting. Knowing the American system, as I do, at
least that is the introduction my brothers, we haven't been getting introductions,
and I share your concern. I hope Smith is qualified and I hope they aren't doing
68
Nov 27'9J4
this, doing what I think they.are doing. I hope that isn't the case, but I
want to say, we have to start somewhere. The American public has always said
we don't like tokeniam and doggone it they never got me therer•-never got me
there, and tokens can't atop the process. Let ne give you an example,where
is the Mayor and J.L.--I don't want them to forget their deal with me until
I get off the Commission. Sgt. this may really blow your Mind. I am going to
wait for J.L.----
Mayor Ferre: While we are waiting let me make this comment, Father, tokenism
means different things to different people, and you can look at it differently.
Now, I think I know what Sgt. Salerno is talking about when he means tokenism.
My question wasn't made quite the way he was talking about. The tokenism I
am talking about is that I hope we don't have a Major in the police department
who is not functioning to the full capacity of his ability.
Rev. Gibson:I understood you, and I understood him too, I understood that
tokenism to you meant one thing and tokenism to him meant another thing. That
is why you heard me allude, I hope Smith is qualified and that he was being used
to maximum capacity. J.L. isn't here, ---I'll wait for him, because I want to
make this point and if you deal with me on this commission sister Rose, I want
you to remember that this is the way you are dealing. I am going to make this
one point this afternoon. Yes, J.L., I was trying to say that I am not averse
to tokenism. When I was a younger fellow, I thought I could move the world, and
that the world was going to move because Gibson says move, I didn't want 'token',
but the older I get, the more I am convinced that token may not be a bad word
sometimes, nor a bad position. Let me make my point, I want you to know that
I am the token on this commission. I am.
Mayor Ferre: You are just one token.
Rev. Gibson: Wait, I am the token. Do you remember the policeman who was
here earlier, Kowaski,-----I told him the distance between you and me is, he
could hide, I can't hide. That is where I am the token.
Mrs. Gordon: I can't hide either.
Rev. Gibson: Here is the thing Rose, the difference is you are a female
let's assume if I eliminate the femininity there, that it will be the same.
Look, in a rush, no way in the hell could anybody mistake me. In a rush, J.L.
and Reboso and Ferre and Rose, could be one and the same. If we were voting
the likeliness is, that Reboso and Plummer would be on one team and Rose
and Ferre on another one, and then I'd be the lone and only. I'll be that
minority and at that time, I get to be the majority, because there will be
two vote here and two votes there and you have to have three up here to tango,
to put it through, and at that point I get to be the majority. I don't want
you to forget that today. So, I am not always averse to tokenism, and then the
advantage further, to carry it out a little, if I am around I may hear something
that nobody wanted me to hear, and they may inadvertently forget on here, and
all of a sudden, they look, 'oh, a Black gets in', you know. Don't play that illus-
tration cheap now.
Mayor Ferre: Are there other questions? Thank you very much.
Mr. Ron Silver : Ras Mrs. Schwartz been sworn? Yes, please state
your name and address please.
Mrs. Barbara Schwartz: I am Barbara Schwartz, my business address is
1351 N.W. l2th Street.
Mr. Ron Silver: By 'whom axe you employed?
Mrs. Schwartz: Well, I am not here in that capacity.
Mr. Silver: You may proceed with your statement Mrs. Schwartz.
Mayor Ferre: Mrs. Schwartz you and I talked in the last few days, yesterday,
you had previously discussed this I think with Louis Laredo, --as I understand
it you had been requested to be an instructor in the LEAA grant. Why don't you
describe what area and what you see, if there are any potential problems and
why and make your statement.
Mrs. Schwartz: Let are just tell you a little bit then, I was asked to be
69 NOV''"1+4
an instructor on a program that was to help the City of Miami police officers
to take the Sergeants and Lieutenants exam,,and originally I was asked to
teach on constitutional law, and I wag told there is a book that is being used,
and they gave me a copy of the book. I took the book found the book was printed
in 1966, the supplement to it, led to 1967,--in the field of constitutional law
and criminal law, that is very old.
Mayor Ferre: Why is that, would you explain why 1966 textbook would be
old?
Mrs. Schwartz: We are talking about arrests, about search and seizure,
and those things change the law, especially on search and seizure, changes
every day. This book went into wire -tapping, electronic surveilance. All of
these things, where wire -tapping, electronic surveilance has become involved,
the mechanisms themselves have advanced so in the last couple of years, that
at the beginning, they couldn't possible rule the same way as the ruling now.
Mayor Ferre: Would you say then that in the past 8 years, there has been
a substantial change?
Mrs. Schwartz: Definitely, a substantial change in all of these laws.
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you when this came to your attention, and obviously
you don't want to teach from something that is obsolete, since there is a sub-
stantial change, did you discuss this with anyone.
Mrs. Schwartz: Let me say that when I was first told about that I
had assumed the book was just being used as a help, and I began to up -date it,
and when I went to teach the first class, it was when I was told that the test
itself would be confined to the book itself.
Mayor Ferre: When were you told this, time -wise, a month ago ?
Mrs.Schwartz: The first time I taught a class. I believe it was October 10,
I am not possitive, it was a Thursday night, it was October.
Mayor Ferre: The point I want to make Mr. Andrews, is it the same kind
of problems that were brought out about torts, in the academy. The fact that
we had not addressed ourselves to the problem and had not corrected, here we
are with a brand new grant, and here we are going down the same road of using
an obsolete textbook when the teacher herself has stated that because it is 8
years old, it is obsolete and yet we are insisting on using it because it happens
to be what the teats are based on.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, may I ask a few
questions. I think I can resolve this, is this a textbook for the purpose
of the sergeant and lieutenant examination which have been designed by the
University of Chicago to develop proper examinations for the city.
Mrs. Schwartz: I cannot tell you really who picked out the book. I have
been told that it was picked out by the University of Chicago, and they are
the one who is giving the exam, yes.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor, remember one of the areas that we committed ourselves
to is that we would give the University of Chicago a free hand in selecting the
materials and these sergeants and lieutenants, and they evidently have selected
this,and the sergeants and lieutenants have been studying from this book, and this
is one of the books that the questions have been raised from and I guess it is
going to take into consideration; capacity for the position in addition to capability
of performing our duties.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, all I can say is my, my, my. How much money are
we spending with the University of Chicago?
Mr. Plummer: $180,000,00,-----
Mayor Ferre: ----to make out a test, which will be admistered soon, based
upon a book, which was published in 1966, which because it is 8 years old, is
obsolete in this particular science or law, or what have you. Where is the out -cry
of indignation,-----
"dU NOV 271974
•
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor I thinkin fairness o the University of Chicago
I should find out from theid why this particular text is being used and inform
you �:.:....�..
Mayor Ferre: Paul, I a/s not worried about the University bf Chicago,
I am worried, about, God in heaven, why doesn't somebody in the police department
say 'no', this is wrong, we are not going to perpetuate something which is
obsolete,--8 years old, it is no good, we are training these people in laws
that don't exist, the law is different, how can we take a man and train him
or a woman, in something thatwe know is wrong, and we just sit here on a brand
new federal program, and keep our mouth shut about it, ---listen, my bone is
not with the University of Ch:.cago, my bone is with us, the City of Miami with
the administration, with the police department, ---where is somebody that says
this is wrong, this lady, Mrs. Schwartz has pointed this out, let's investigate
this, let's correct it, if the exam is wrong, let's get down to it.
Mr. Andrews: There is a differentiation that should be made here, this
is not on-the-job training this training for the purpose of passing a particular
examination to qualify them for sergeant or lieutenant. I don't have the answer
for it. All I am saying is that, I am cautioning you to question why this is
being done before you arrive at a conclusion.
Mayor Ferre: That is like taking nuclear physicist and telling him that
we are going to give him an exam based on information that was known before
Einstein was born.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor may I interject something here. I brought this
point up some four months ago, whether it is right or wrong, I was told
three days after the list was published as to what books would be used in
the up -coming exam, and I believe there are 8 books that are being given
study that 6 of the 8, not just 1, but 6 of the 8 books are so antiquated
that it is unbelievable. I immediately inquired, I think Paul, of you and
I got the same answer at that time that I am getting now, and that is,this
is what we agreed to, with the University of Chicago to give them a free
hand. I said why are we training our men of 8 years ago, rather than today,
because we gave the University of Chicago a free hand. Mr. Mayor I am not .
saying that is right but I want you to know this was brought to my attention
and I immediately went to the Manager.
Mayor Ferre: Let me tell you how it was brought to my attention.Mr.
Laredo, I am going to ask you to go down there, ---get on a microphone,
and this is part of what I have been trying to bring out all day today.
This isn't something that ought to be coming out of the the City of Miami
Commission. This is something that ought to come out of the administration
all the time, and if it is wrong, and there is indignation to be had, doggone
it ought to be right here before us.
Mr. Luis Laredo: My name is Luis Laredo , 2917 Shipping Avenue, Coconut
Grove.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Laredo how did this all come about ?
Mr. Laredo: I attended the first advisory board meeting of the LEAA
tri-cultural program, because the man you had appointed was unable to be
there that day. Sitting in the meeting looking through a rather considerable
amount of paper work they gave us, I leafed through the list of cases that
she had prepared from the book, and I have a year at law school, --and very
obviously leafing through it when everybody else was talking, I couldn't
believe some of the cases they were using for constitutional law and teach
arrest procedures. There was an attorney in the room and I ask him to verify
me, and he leafed through it, and he said he can't believe it. Then 1 proceded
to question the director and they agreed and they explained to me what Barbara
has just explained to you. They are aware of it nevertheless they decided to
continue.
Mayor Ferre: After that you then you got ahold of Mrs. Schwartz?
Mr. Lardeo: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: That is:how she is here?
Mr. Laredo: Yes, sir, ----
Mayor Ferre: Thank you.
71 NOV 271974
Mrs. Schwartz: I just want to say that the only contact I had was with
Mr. Revile who spoke with me originally about teaching, and I did tell him
originally when 1 first saw the book or when I first found out that was the
only thing that 1 could teach from, that they were going to be tested by.
Obviously some of the cases are going to have to be old cases because they
were teaching the theory of the law and the evolution of the law. It was just
a matter they have stopped in 1967 and that is impossible.
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you now, if an officer were to pass the test
and were to go out on the street, how he handled situations based on that
1966 book, would he have sufficient knowledge, would he be covered, --would he
know what, -----
Mrs. Schwartz: No, he would have a lot of problems, he would not
be proficient, and the City would have legal problems if he was going on
the laws of 1966 when it is completely different in 1974.
Mayor Ferre: So in other words, if there was a case in which that officer
were asked what his knowledge was of this matter, and he said that his book
was such and such a book, that was 1966, that that might create problems for
the City of Miami.
Mrs. Schwartz: I would tell you that during the course I did tell them
when we can to a law that was changed and completely outdated I would not
tell them the new law because they were afraid that the time of the test they
would answer the way it is today and not the way the book says, but I would
tell them this law is outdated, it is no longer in effect so they would be
that awake,---
Mr.Plummer: Have you had the opportunity to look at the other books that
are being used?
Mrs. Schwartz: I have seen another book that I know Miami Dade Junior
at least one of the classes is using. That print was at least 1970 or
1971 and it was a much better book, the book itself is not only just old,
but is a very poorly written book especially for police officers.
Mr. Plummer: This is the second book?
Mrs. Schwartz: No, this is the book that we were using.
Mr. Plummer: What is your opinion of the remainder of the books?
Mrs. Schwartz: I think there could have been a much better choice.
Mayor Ferre: I want the question answered as to why Mrs. Schwartz
stated, and I understand you had objections and told Mr. Rivas, I want to
know what Mr. Rivas did with that objection and whether it followed the admin-
istrative procedure to Mr. Parades and whether it came up to the Manager for
some kind of decision.
Mrs. Schwartz: At the time I made the objection, this is the time the
classes were started, this was already October, and the exam is being given
December 2nd.
Mr. Plummer: That is right, it is being given Monday. Before Mr. Parades,
because I think it unfair to Mr. Parades, or Mr. Rivas of anyone else to answer
for the University of Chicago. I think the University of Chicago should be here
answering for themselves.
Mayor Ferre: Right, if I had been in the administrative role, I would
have raised holy hell, absolutely not, are we going to use an 8 year old
obsolete book to train our police officers in something that absolutely useless.
It is just a question of finding a 1971 book or whatever it is, and for goodness
sake, that is like a surgeon and telling him you are going to train him on pre -heart
transplant operations, then tell him to operate somebody's heart. To operate on
somebody's heart you have to know what Dr. Debakey did, what Dr. Cooley and
the one in South Africa, and all these things have been documented and studied
and re -studied. You are not going to ask a man to operate on somebody's heart
without the knowledge of this recent information as to what heart operations
are all about. How can we ask a ppliceman to deal with a matter when we restrict
72
NOV 71974
him tb a 1966 textbook that is obsolete. 0f course the University of Chicago
has to answer but I also think the whole department and the whole structure
or you Mr. Parades, or somebody who is involved in making the decision around
here, why was there an objection ---did you pursue the objection, was this
brought to a conclusion, then why was the decision reached. There might be
answers for all of this.
Mr. Silver: Mr. Clerk will you swear Mr. Parades in please.
Mr. Joseph Parades: I am Joseph Parades 5054 S.W. 128th Avenue. I am
employed by the City of Miami. Specifically in the area of the mentioned book,
at the time we hired Mrs. Schwartz and the other employees, we were dealing
strictly with a book list which the University of Chicago developed for the
City. Two things, one under the court order they had the sole authority in
developing material for the teat. At the time the book list was developed,
the plaintiffs themselves, through the University of Chicago told them that
they did not want any book that the City of Miami had used in the previous
list. Specifically in this case this was not the first choice by the University
of Chicago. However, due to the efforts of the plaintiff through the Cohen
case, the University of Chicago then went to the second book.
Mayor Ferre: To this book?
Mr. Parades:Yes,----
Mayor Ferre: Did you at all complain about the fact that the book was
obsolete, did you ask for advice from the legal counsel, did ybu seek advice
from the law department or any lawyer as to whether or not this was an adequate
book.
Mr. Parades: I am not an educational expert, the fact that we are paying,
Mayor Ferre: Well, who ih, Dr. Morral? Did somebody question it, did
somebody ask, was it followed. Obviously it really doesn't take a doctoral
degree or college education to figure out that if a book is a 1966 model,
and it is obsolete, that we shouldn't be using it. What does Mr. Rivas say
about it? Did Mr. Rivas tell you that Mrs. Schwartz had stated that the
book was obsolete and shouldn't be used?
Mr. Parades: There are two things, you are talking about a process
of educating police officers, that is one thing, --if you are talking about
specifically the case of the University of Chicago, first trying to validate
police examinations is two different things. If you are talking about knowledge
that policeman must have out there, then we were for a decision
because of the training. however what they are trying to do right now, is to
have a valid wav of measuring whatever they want to measure.
Mayor Ferre: And it couldn't be done with a 1971 textbook just as
well as a 1968?
Mr. Parades: It could very well have been, however they were the ones
that decided on that book based on the request of the plaintiffs that no
previous books, -----
Mayor Ferre: Did you object to it, did we object to it, ----the City of
Miami, did we say look, that is not reasonable,
MEM
Mr. Parades: I don't believe it has been stated before today that
we don't have the authority to object to it today.
Mayor Ferre: You are telling me that we, the administration does not
have the authority?
Mr. Parades: No, --
Mr. Plummer: We have to get to a point of being reasonable. There is
no court in this land to my knowledge, that is going to tell the city of
Miami, gentlemen, antique your police department. Joe I am not holding you
personally, but I am going to tell you something. I don't think a federal court
would go out and tell us to go out and commit suicide, and that is what we
------------and you are making the statement that we don't have the right to
73 NOV 271974
object, what are courts for.
Mt. Parade#: I did net say that, we did not have the right to object.
It was stated that it teas out of our hands, and again the attorney can make
that point again to you.
Mr. Plummer: What bothers me, we can go into this whole ball of wax but
Monday morning that test is starting, amd I correct? And Monday morning we are
going to be putting men to a test that is 8 years old and antiquated, and let
we tell you something, if I listen to what has been told to me here today,
there is nothing we can do about it. I don't believe tha., I don't buy that.
Rev. Gibson: J. L., listening to Mr. Parades, I understand what he is
saying. There is such a thing as learning how to reason through and arriving
at a conclusion. That is one thing, but it would appear to me that if there was
a more recent book we could have done the same thing with a more recent book,
then we would have got two for our money rather than one. What we have to do
is to un-teach,---you have to un-study what we have already studied. It was just
as easy to study what he is saying, ---what is going on now, as to study what
went on 15 years and have to discard it. I think you have to understand his
position. He is saying that the process, but we are saying thatthe product, --
we are concerned about the product and the process. They are concerned about
the process, --the prediciment we find ourselves in this city today with
the multiplicity of problems, we cannot afford to spend our time, fritter it
away+time and taxpayers money on process, we have to have process and for
that money.
Mayor Ferre: Results,
Rev. Gibson: I would urge the commission as angry as we can be, out of
fairness to the police officers, out of fairness to them, even to our detriment,
I would urge us to at least, not disturb, since they are going to start Monday;
I know it has been a long time, a long waiting, and if Sgt. Salerno was here
he would tell you that those men have waited a long time. I understand that.
But it doesn't please me Mr. Parades, and I think Mr. Mayor what we need to
do is to ask the University to come down and give us an explanation, plus --
Mayor Ferre: I agree, we want to ask the administration.
Rev. Gibson: I think we need to sound a wanring Mr. Mayor. The thing
you have been trying to say but I don't think any of us got it clear. We
need to say to the administration, and when I say administration, I don't
mean Mr. Andrews, but I am talking about the police department, the Fire Department
-------the Fire Department demonstrated what point the Mayor was trying to make
and what I am trying to get. Gentlemen, you have enough sense, ----you ought to, --
enough sense and backbone, if you know this is not getting us where we ought to
go and not getting the desired results and not speaking to the issue, of that
consent agreement, I learned that the other day, we agreed that this would
fill our need, that is what we said. Then it seems to me Mr. Andrews can't be
the chief and he can't be the Lieutenant and he can't be the Captain and Major,
nor can he be the fire chief. What we are saying, under our structure of government
every department ought to complain when this thing is not going right, otherwise
you are guilty, you are party of the perpetration of the crime upon the City.
That is way I look at it.
Mayor Ferre: Let me tell you a specific case Mr. Andrews, in my own
business, okay, between two plants, one that works and makes money, and one
that doesn't, and loses money. The plant that works, is the plant, when a
man comes up and sees something wrong, that is not his job, he has the interest
and motivation to go and say, hey, Charlie, that belt is broken, and if you dont
vulcanize it on Monday it is going to tear, and the rock and cement is going to
fall on my truck, or somebody else's truck. The plants where things don't go well
is when the problem happens, and I go and ask this guy, what happened, well the
rubber on the belt ripped. I said didn't anybody see it, but yes, that is not
m}y responsibility, that's Joe's. The mement I hear that, then I know we have
problems in that plant, and all I am saying is, that is the way I think it should
function, when somebody sees a problem like this, we are all in this boat together
-----somebody has to say Chief, I want to talk to you, this is wrong. Joe Parades,
he said this is wrong, we are doingsomething that is ridiculous, can we correct
it. Let's call the University of Chicago, it says no, the hell with the University
of Chicago, get them on the phone, let's go see Mr. Andrews, let's see Andy Crouch
/4
NOV 271974
-let's get it talked out, I know that if we get Mrs. Schwartz, and everybody
down on the table, and get it out in the open, we are going to correct this
problem, because it is unreasonable not to correct it. That is the thrust of
what 1 as concerned with.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, 1 don't want us to over -look one thing. Who said
that the plaintiff, somebody used the term that the plaintiff, ----who was that.
What the public needs to understand is that the people that took us to court
now, --let's blaiae all the people, all of us should share the burden. The
plaintiffs who are that Black outfit, isn't that right?
Unidentified person: Right, -----
Rev. Gibson: ---took the City to court, they insisted and agreed, on
that book Mr. Mayor, so we need to, ----
(Inaudible remark)
Rev. Gibson: -----wait, we have to get you under oath, --all I am trying
to do is to pick up to what was said. If I am not right, them -----where is
counsel, -----give him an opportunity to answer, --I heard that the plaintiff
and the way this thing operates, if the plaintiffs were party to it, and
agreed, then it seems to me, that they were trying to agree, have an amicable
settlement, and they came to this conclusion, that doesn't make it right.
Mayor Ferre: That has nothing to do with using obsolete books.
Mrs. Gordon: The point I want to make, Father Gibson is making it, and
I want to reiterate it, Mr. Parades, did you say, that the University of
Chicago, wanted to use another book, but that the plaintiffs prefered this
book or some other book?
Mr. Parades: Yes, ---
Mrs. Gordon: Okay, that is your answer.
Mayor Ferre: 1 You mean to tell me you couldn't have sat down with Jesse
McCrary, ----is he around, --and say hey, Jesse look, you can't force us to
use an obsolete book. You mean to tell me he wouldn't have been reasonable
about? I don't believe it.
Mr. Plummer: Mrs. Schwartz, let me ask this question. First of all they
didn't like ----the plaintiffs did not like any books that were being used,
correct? Or this is what we were told. Can you tell me from your knowledge,
of publications, in this area, there surely must be this one particular area
that you were teaching in, at bast three or four current books, aren't there?
Mrs. Schwartz: I know of at least one that is much more current than this
book.
Mr. PLummer: Was it a book that was not being presently used by the
City . What I am trying to do is make this, so they didn't like the books
that were being used, okay, they had the right to object. I don't think they
had the right to dictate. They had the right to object. Their objection was
they didn't want any books presently being used by the city. Wasn't there another
current book.
Mrs. Schwartz: Mr. Plummer, the only thing I can tell you, I don't know
what the books were that were used by the ---
Mr. Plummer: The one in your particular area, ---
Mrs. Schwartz : But I am saying I don't know what the city used before.
By the time I came into the situation, there was so little time to prepare
these wen for the exam. I don't know how long the booklets had been out prior
to my seeing the book. I didn't come into to this until October. My first teaching
session was October 10. From then until December 2, it would have been impossible
I think to change the book and keep the exam time at the same date.
Mr. Plummer: Mrs. Schwartz, I appreciate your answer but it was not
what I was addressing.
75
NOV 2 71974
Mrs. Schwartz: I have no idea what book the City of Miami used before,
so 1 can't answer you.
Mr. Plummer: There are, other books?
Mrs. Schwartz: There aie other books.
Mrs. Gordon: Wasn;t the examination based on certan textbooks and
this is the textbook the examination was prepared upon.
Mrs. Schwartz: That is what I was told, that the examination will be
based upon these textbooks. Otherwise we could have updated the textbooks
for the exam.
Mrs. Gordon: Otherwise you would have given them work from a textbook
that an examination might not have covered the point.
Mayor Ferre: When did the Chicago people get involved?
Mr. Andrews: Our discussion started in April, so I guess it was about
July or August.
Mayor Ferre: I don't think it was August because in August you were ou
vacation.
Mr. Andrews; There were so preliminary steps that were taken and I think
you gave me latitude to go ahead and get into that contract.
Mayor Ferre: The point I am trying to make is, you mean to tell me
whether it is July or August, and now the end of November, that ----the point
I am trying to bring out, is the reasonableness of the situation and the fact
that evidently it was accepted. Let's start this way, do you agree that there
is a problem.
Mr. Andrews: There is a problem from the standpoint that a more modern
book, if used, would be close, ------I recognize that Mr. Mayor, --would have
produced better results in the long run from the standpoint that the book is
being used to test the knowledge of people, from that standpoint I don't see
any harm, but from the standpoint of continuring a sergeant and lieutenant,
certainly it is better we use a more modern book.
Mayor Ferre: How can we perpetuate something which we know is inherantly
wrong?
Mr. Andrews: I don't have all of the circumstances that I can answer you.
I have to talk to the university of Chicago to find out why this decision was
made.
Mr. Plummer: I think really Paul is right and I apologize. I think we
are talking in circles. The people who must answer the gut questions are not
here, that is the University of Chicago. Paul can you invite one of them to
be here Monday.
Mr Andrews: I'll try.
Mr. Plummer: Even though the test is being given that day I assume they
are going to be here. Don't they have to administer it? So you invite one of
them here to come before this commission,
Mayor Ferre: I'll repeat it one more time, and all I am trying to say
is, and whether or not the University of Chicago is to blame or not, I think
it incumbent upon the pilot of the airplane to know what the back gunner is
doing. That is all I am saying.
Mr. Andrews: I understand, -----
Mayor Ferre: You were a pilot during the war, don't tell me that when
you were running that ship that you did't know what everybody was doing on that
ship, and that when the crisis came, you were the boss who told those people,
76 NOV 2 71974
I know you have a difficult Job, I know you've got thousands of things on
your wind that ate pressuring you, it is not you, but if somebody in the
adman%stration, that this should be an open process when a problem like this
shows it head, ought to be passed.
Rev. Gibson: Let me ask a question, Mr. Andrews you may not be able to
answer this, but when you come in Monday, maybe you will have this answered.
Who negotiated the textbooks that should be used?
Unidentified person: There was no negotiation,
Mr. Andrews: That the textbook selection was made strictly by the
University of Chicago, from my knowledge, they are the one who made
the decisions on the textbooks.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, the officer over here wanted to answer. Maybe
you ought to swear him in . Maybe he might throw some light on it.
Officer Otis Davis: I am Otis Davis and am employed with the City of
Miami. I am president of the .MCCPBA, and there have been some inferrences
made that we made concession as to the book list. I want to state here and now
that I did not do any of this nor my attorney. I don't know who got together
with the Chicago firm and said that this book shoud be, one of the things
we asked for was to have these old books deleted.
Mayor Ferre: Here we go again.
Officer Otis Davis: We did not make any concession to anybody to have
this book list that is one thing we fought for to keep from giving
this old book list.
Mrs. Gordon: Where is Mr. Parades? You made a statement the plaintiff
desired ----
Mr. Parades: The whole problem is, we•_ are defending the University of
Chicago, ----
Mayor Ferre: I am not worried about the University of Chicago, I am
worried about you.
Mr. Parades: The statement that I made was, the University of Chicago
----in choosing the books that they did, took into consideration that the
plaintiffs did not want any of the books be used in the ------
Mayor Ferre: They choose an obsolete book and you accept it.
Mr. Plummer: We have the head of the plaintiff here stating that he
didn't say that, neither did his attorney, it is as much an insult
to the Black man as to the Spanish man as to the White man, to put a book
like, ---the only other thing I'll recommend to you is, since this involves
Mr. McCrarey, that he be here also with the University of Chicago, so that
we have all parties involved and all parties can speak to it, and iron the
thing out.
Mayor Ferre: There is nothing in this consent decree that says anything
about this process. Nothing, ----
Mx. Plummer: Doesn't it speak to the fact, -----
Mayor Ferre: Not one iota, not one word, nothing to do with it, and all
I say is we are teaching officers and examining them on obsolete law and I think
we ought to be ashamed of ourselves, and I think it is wrong, any way you slice
it, ---it is that simple, and let's not complicate it. I think what you are saying
Mr. Davis is important, but excuse me, it is secondary. The main thing here is
that why does not this City of Miami say 'no, that is wrong, we are not going
to do this, it doesn't work', ------
Rev. Gibson: I hope when the University of Chicago gets here, there is
77
NOV 27 1974
an expression in the business I am in, there is a voice of one person, but
the hand of another,- ----somebody said to me at lunch today, you know when
he gets tired of preaching, I want you to tie a bandanna around your head
and go tell fortunes. I hope that doesn't happen soon, but I hope when the
University of Chicago comes here, and I am all for it, and I hope we can hold
our peace, and hold our cool until MOnday, and let's ask them how did you arrive
at this list, who were the objectors, were there objectors, you see, Mr. Mayor
I am going to get indirectly what I can't get directly. Be sure to have them
here Mr. Andrews, because I am going to ask them the question.
Mayor Perre: And after he answers that question then you answer mine, ----
why didn't somebody in the City of Miami yell bloody murder?
Unidentified person: I did.
Mayor Ferre: In the administration, ---Mr. Parades, Mr. Rivas, Dr. Morrell,
somebody, ----in the police deparment, LEAA, somebody who is involved in this
whole process.
There is one questidn that came out of all this Mr. Andrews, that I would
like to ask, it has been brought to my attention that some of the officers
that have requested time have not been granted title because of some pressures
,-----time pressures, ----'too busy' we need you, can't give you all the time, or
they grant time and they takd it away because they need them on the beat. I dont
Want to name names. I want you to give me the following information ----I want to
know every man who requested to take the test, whether they requested time off
to study, how many days they requested, and who was granted time off and who was
denied, and I hope it was denied for a Black or Spanish speaking, thaA we have
the same proportion of denials for everybody across the board. That is what I would
like to see. whether the denial process of time was equally applied throughout the
police department.
Are there any other questions of Mrs. Schwartz? I want to tell you, I
know this has caused a lot of personal aggravation for you to be here today
Barbara, I just wanted in behalf of the City of Miami to thank you for being
so generous with your time in spending most of the day here with us. I apologize
for any inconvenience it may have caused you and thank you so much for participating.
Mr. Oscar Agulo: I am Oscar Agulo, I live at 4155 S.W. 33 Avenue, Miami,
Florida.
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you a few questions to establish your credentials.
How long have you lived in this community Mr. Agulo.
Mr. Agulo: 14 years, -
Mayor Ferre: How long have you been a newspsper reporter or in the radio
broadcasting business?
Mr. Agulo: 12 years, --
Mayor Ferre: Have you during those 12 years been involved with the
police department of Miami.
Mr. Agulo: Yes, sir, ----
Mayor Ferre: In what capacity, -----
Mr. Agulo: I am a police reporter for WFAB radio station, ---
Mayor Ferre: You are Asst New director for WFAB and you are a news reporter,
a police reporter.
Mr. Agulo: Yes,sir,--
Mayor Perre: In that capacity as a police reporter, in one of the jobs that
you do, would you say that you know the majority of the Spanish speaking policemen
in the city of MIami?
Mr. Agulo: Excuse my English, it is very bad
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask the questions, do you know the majority of the
Spanish speaking officers in Miami,---
78 NOV 2 71974
Kr, Agulo: I think 1 knot, 95%.
Mayor Ferre: Do you kno:,} some of the officers and some of the Anglo Saxon
officers also?
Mr. Agulo: Yes, sure, --
Mayor Ferre: How many of the officers would you say that over the 12 year
period, Met?
Mr. Agulo: More than 100,--
Mayor Ferre: Okay, Iam trying to establish that you have for 12 years
gone into this and a relationship with the police department. Go ahead and make
the statement.
Mt. Agulo: I think the best problem in the City of Miami police department
is discrimination, ------against the Latin community and against the police
the Latin police officers, to different points, -------one against the Latin
community, is the number one point. For example, do you call
now 377, 7011,----
Mayor Ferre: Is that the number they answer in Spanish.
Mr. Agulo: Yes, on Tuesday A.M. I called, ---Mr. Villaverde is present
now, -----
Mayor Ferre: Did you witness this phone call?
Mr. Agulo: Yea, ------Mr. Villaverde said this is emergency, get somebody
to speak Spanish, ----hold the line please, ----I wait for 6 minutes, right
Mr. Villeverde? This is typical on the City of Miami police department, this
very critical, ---I think about 400,000 people in the City of Miami, I think
about 35% not speak English .
Mayor Ferre: From a prcatical point of view, aside from the discrimination
with the regard to the safety of people, and property I think it is important
-----I want to say something, ar. Andrews I told you about an incident that
happened on Brickell Avenue in :Front of my home about a week or two ago and
someone in the house who doesn't speak English went to the phone and made a
phone call, it was aroud 6:30 or 7 o'clock, tried to report it, couldn't,somebody
hung up on him, he called again, waited 15 or 20 minutes and the same thing
happened. In all fairness, I ask Luis Lardeo and Frank Cobo in my office to
call and most of the time they wern't able to get through and get a return
in Spanish, but not all of the time, so obviously we have a problem.
Mr. Andrews: And I realize we do and I just talked to Acting Chief
Garland Watkins the other day, and our object is to get at least 4 or 5 of
those complaint clerks on that desk every shift that is possible. That is
our objective.
Mayor Ferre: There is nothing like doing it right noy.I am going to call now, --
377-7011,-----(reply in Spanish) --he answered,three times, 'speak English'
Mr. Agulo:-----discrimination against the Latin community,
Mayor Ferre: Let's see what happens in this other number.I think if you
noticed, he answered three times,'speak English', obviously someone who doesn't
speak English, you know, would like to speak English, but if he can't, ---there was
an answer in Spanish in that one, ---
Mrs. Gordon: That is an interesting point, because it was two separate
numbers. Perhaps we need to publicize the second number in the Latin community.
Mr. Andrews: Mrs. Gordon I advised against that. We are going to have
one number and --
Mr. Plummer: Rose, by state law, we are under 18 months implementation
on 911, whether we like it or don't.
'79 Nov 2 71974
Mayor Ferre: I think the point is, and fortunately today, there was
somebody who andwered in Spanish. I assure you Mr. Andrews, and I haven't had
a personal experience, because obviously I don't call in Spanish, but there have
been people Who have assured me that they have called and not been able to talk
to anybody in Spanish. There is a problem, everybody recognizes it and I think
the Manager recognizes it and I just wanted to prove his point, but the fact is
somebody did answer in Spanish, on the second number.
I might point out Mr. Andrews, that I think you ought to tell the
people who answer in the police department, if somebody speaks in Spanish, and
they say 'speak English' and the guy keeps on rattling off in Spanish, and he
starts saying 'speak English', obviously, that person can't speak English, so
there is no use getting angry about it or getting up -tight about the fact that
that human being doesn't know how to speak English.
Mr. Plummer: YOu are aldo forgetting Mr. Mayor that the individual who
answers that phone has the capability within the City centrex to merely say
hold on, depress the receiver and transfer it automatically, this man didn't
do it. I don't know why but that capability is there.
Mayor Ferre: And he also gave me the number J. L., in Spanish, so he
knew enough Spanish to give me the number in Spanish, why didn't he do that in
the beginning?
Mr. Agulo: Okay, Mr. Mayor, point No. 2,---P & 0, public information
office. This department is in charge of explaining everything about the Latin
community and the American community, and radio station, I mean like the American
news media, --------employee in the P & 0, public information office speaks Spanish,
at the present time, -------the last officer was working in the P & 0, was Officer
Ernesto Rodriguez, is transferred now, and before was working
this is discrimination against the Latin news media, no speak Spanish in the
public information office, (inaudible) no relation between police
department and the Latin community at the present time. I asked why Spanish
is prohibited in the police academy , I think is discrimination.
Mayor Ferre: I am sorry I have to disagree, it is my personal opinion
----that is a police academy, the language of that academy is English, that
officer there is suppose to speak English. If that officer can't speak English
he shouldn't be in the academy, and therefore I think that he ought to speak
English in the academy. There you and I don't agree. I agree with you on other
things, but I can't agree on that.
Mr. Agulo: Mr. Mayor I said two police officers in private conversation
tried to talk in Spanish, that is prohibited too.
Mayor Ferre: Let me make a point about this bi-lingual county. Bi-lingual
county does not mean in my opinion that people are going to speak Spanish and
discriminate against people who don't speak Spanish, that is not the way this
thing works. I think the language of this county and this community is English.
It is the responsibility of those of us that are non-English speaking to learn
English. That doesn't mean that we should not have certain things that are respon-
sive to our needs, but that doesn't mean that we are going to impose Spanish on
this community. We have to be careful now, because there is a certan point where
we have to be careful not to cross over, or I think what you may get into is reverse
discrimination and then you are going to have problems, and with all due respects
to you I think that in a police academy, the language is English, and that is
the language that has to be spoken.
Mr. Agulo: In 12 years on the city of Miami police department,for example
the present time on the I never saw a Latin police officer
I repeat the Latin community, I think about 62% in the
City of Miami is Latin,does not have representation in the higher level of the
police department,------
Mr. Reboso: Mr. Agulo, may I ask you a question please, as I recall, an
attempt against your life was made last year, ----
Mr. Agulo:--at the beginning of this year.
Mr. Reboso: What has the police found so far?
Mr. Agulo: Detective Martinez, in charge, ----I don't know nothing
about this case,-----
80
NOV 2 71974
Mr. Reboso: He was in charge of the case,--- I recall you told me at
time you saw perfectly the car that was involved in the shooting, what type
of car was it.
Mr. Agulo: Red, 1973 Chevrolet, four door,---
Mr. Reboso: Did you file a complaint with the Miami Police department.
Mr. Agulo: Yes, my goodness, about 5 or 6 police cars arrived at the scene.
Mayor Ferre: Are there any other questions. Do you want to make an additional
statement Mr. Agulo?
Mr. Agulo: ONly one point more, the real control of the City of Miami
police department is under and I think this is the great problem
in the City of Miami, -----the Black community and the Latin community
I don't see any solution, in the past the present or the future.
Mayor Ferre: Oscar I want to tell you I respect you, you are my friend,
and respectfully I disagree, I think there is a solution, that you will see
the solutions forthcoming, and I think there is hope and we are working at it.
Sometimes it takes a little longer that we would want, but I we will see the light,
Mr. Agulo: I wait for the solution, thank you very much.
Mr. Silver: Will you swear • Mr. Simms in please?
Mr. Robert Simms: My name is Robert Harrison Sims. I live at 4125 N.W. loth
Avenue. I am a taxpayer of the City of Miami, and a resident. My reason for coming
forth Mr. Mayor is that I understood my friend to express a concern I think maybe
the commission misunderstood. The concern I thought I heard him express is one
that I hear expressed in may offices in which people that speak Spanish as their
first tongue but also speak English, are io allowed to use in their social relation
ship with other Spanish speaking people they are not allowed to speak Spanish, and
I thought I understood him to say that that was a practice that was established
at the academy.
Mayor Ferre: I musunderstood. I don't think it is the place of the police
academy to tell citizens what language they use in a social relationship just like
you can't tell a man whether or not he can use sneakers or not, and that is his
business, on his own time. While he is on official business, that is different.
I think there is a distinction. I would imagine that there is a distinction.
Thank you for clarifying that.
Mr. Simms: I would like to suggest as a representative at the staff level
of the Community Relations Board, of which are a group of 30 lay people, which
makes it own decisions, based on staff input, our board has established a very
warm and friendly relationship hopefully with this commission and the Manager
and other department heads and professionals within the city, we recognize the
importance of your deliberations, that we are observing and at maybe a more
opportune time, if there be a need we would reserve the right hopefully to come
back before you.
Mayor Ferre: I know you have several members of your staff here, would
you identify them , and perhaps your board members too.
Mr. Simms: We have Mr. John who is the program officer with the staff
of the community relations board, Mr. Edward Wharton who is the administrative
officer,
Mayor Ferre: Where is he?
Mr. Simms; Standing in the door, we have a recent appointment to our board
the one who represents the youth community, if you would stand.
Then we have a lot of friends in the audience.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you sir,----- it is almost 5 o'clock and we said we would
hear from Florence Will and George Arias so Mrs. Wills, after two days of waitin
81
NOV 2 71974
with our apologies, I would like to recognize you.
Mrs. Florence Wills: I am Florence Wills, my office address is 556
W. Flagler Street. I am executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union
of Florida. It is a private non-profit organization concerned with the preservation
and application of the Bill of Rights. I would like to preface my remarks briefly
with a comment on the Bill of Rights, and which bears on the problem you are dealing
with. The Bill of Rights of our Constitution has a single purpose to define by
law, government's relationship to its people. In certain areas it prescribes
the government's role should be narrowly defined and great restraint should be
exercised from encroaching upon the individual, such as in free speech, free
assembly, freedom of religion, freedom of the press and freedom to petition
for redress of grievances.
In other areas the bill of rights prescribes that the full machinery of
government is expected to operate for the protection of individuals. Those areas
that deal with search and seisures depravation of life, liberty or property,
together with those other provisions of the Bill of Rights which can be encompassed
by the due process and equal protection clauses, which are my concern today. How
many make up a majority?
Of all public employees, those with the greatest degree of direct contact
with the largest number of citizens, are members of the police department. They
are your very own roving ambassadors of good will or ill will, whom you allow
to bear the emblem of the city upon their clothing. How members of the police
department conduct themselves in their job should be a continuous and' paramount
interest to you, the governing body of the City of Miami and to every individual
who resides in or passes through the City of Miami. No other department of City
government can by the conduct of its employees, more adversely affect people,
nor more adversely affect people's view.and opinion of a community, nor can
any other department of government with the exception of the fire department,
when operating correctly in a coordinated -lawful way, see such a thing of
beauty.
Whether an individual decides to serve his community, by seeking a govern-
ment job for which he is hired, or appointed for a particular period of time,
or one in which he offers himself to the electorate, in each case he seeks to
become a public servant. This point should never be lost sight of. He should
ever be in fact accountable to the public he serves. Yet within the past few
years we have read of police -citizen confrontations that could beat be described
as atrocities, hanging a young boy by his heels from a bridge or busy street
the beating of a elderly retired attorney waiting for a bus in the downtown
Greyhound bus station, the robbery of a dog track by two officers, the rape
of a young girl by a gang of officers, the killing of a young man who had committed
no crime other than careless driving, the killing of a man in his apartment during
the Republican convention, the accidental killing of a man who was standing and
talking to neighbors, the robbery of a pancake house restaurant, and on and on,
and these are the only ones that broke into the news. Yet in almost every case,
when each of these acts occured and a complaint wat; made to internal review, the
officers were exonerated, but in many of those same cases which were pursued
through a civil damage action, and reviewed by an impartial jury of peers,
the officer was found guilty and damages were awarded, But internal review is
not alone in responding, --
Mayor Ferre: I want you to repeat that statement again, because I want
both Mr. Faulk and W. Andrews to hear this. It is a very important statement,
I never thought of that.
Mrs. Wills: --yet in almost every case when each of these acts occured
and a complaint was made to internal review, the officers were exonerated,
but in many of those same cases, which were pursued to a civil damage action,
and reviewed by an impartial jury of peers, the officer was found guilty and
damages were awarded, but internal review is not alone in responding to internal
pressure. In all cases where police action has resulted in death and an inquest
was held the presiding judge failed to do anything but exonerate the officer. I
suspect that even new members of this commission responding to the same act have
tended to believe that it was probably justified and went on to other concerns
until the officer Cook case, where the grossness of the act was mot what caused
your attention, but the profession of the victim. As far back as July 1953, in
an issue of the American Journal of Sociology a report entitled 'Violence in the
Police' by William Westerly stated "the most significant finding is that at least
372of the men of the men police believed it was legitimate to use violence to cause
respect." in a secret question administered to half the officers , 77Z said
they would perjure themselves rather than testify against their partners. We
can no longer afford the luxu:y of internal review, in partial review has
become a necessity. The ACLU feels it is our responsibility as an organization
to assist in maintaining public confidence, in due process and equal protection
of the law, yet in the past few years this has become an increasing difficult
task for I have noticed a greatly increased number of complaints regarding the
police and the calls which my office receives. Probably no other organization
outside of government receives as many complaints about police work as the
ACLU, not just about the City of Miami but state-wide. The problem is not yours
alone. The problem is not a local one, but is much larger. There has developed
an over-all picture through these complaints in which the police do not view
themselves as public servants at all but as an army apart from the rest of us.
Individual officers and many police departments conduct themselves and so they
are not only in their job to stop crime and enforce laws but to compel peaceful
law abiding citizens to change their lifestyle so it suits the police officer.
This attitude reinforced by the ever present war on organizaed crime and drugs
funded through federal, state and local funds which at times seem inexhaustible
have led to an abusive attitude held by many officers, and this attitude insulated
by civil service and professional organization safeguard and with little direct.
interest shown in internal procedures, by elected officials and the public generally
has in fact, led to a situation where the police themselves seem to be the organized
crime we are warned to be on guard against. Yet it is the police who are the single
most important component of our entire criminal justice system, for it is their
action that being people into the system at all and it is upon their actions that
the entire system, -courts, prisons, jails parole is based. Can you imagine the
feeling of stark terror that must fill a poor person, Black, long-haired Whites,
retired older persons, women whose morals are questioned, minorities generally,
for they are the most defenseless and thereby the best victims when they are
set upon by the police, their protectors. Who will protect them from the tyranny
of such police, and if you do not care about these people, prepare to continue
with the problems you have. A lawless police have never resulted in a society
that has respect for law, for the police have a unique role in our society. They
have been granted the power to walk among us and judge our acts. In the time it
takes to draw their guns, they have been given the responsibility to decide who
and when someone is to die. This is power is awsome, this amount of power must
be subject to review. I repeat those who choose to occupy public office, whether
elected appointed or hired, chose at the same time to expose themselves to public
enquiry and public criticism. Public inquiry is a method which a democratic society
uses to assure itself that its officials remain accountable to the people. Unless
the police with their unique power to deprive people of their liberty and their
life, are subject to persistent inquiry and criticism and unless questions about
their conduct in office are the regular subject of public concern by both their
friends and their enemys, citizens will not be, cannot be, assured that they are
being served, honestly, diligently inpartially and lawfully.
For a number of years now we have been told that the public does not udnerstand
the problems of the police. Perhaps this is truer that we had realized. We should
be asking questions constantly, questions such as, who decides what weapons will
be used, how is the decision made? Who decides what type of ammunition should
be used, in line with standards, what qualifications are required
for officers of the law, who sets the standards? How are they reviewed, how
are the police trained, who has granted the police the authority to conduct
surveillance of citizens, who attend public meetings, thereby
in peacable and lawful activities, what has been done with the film that has
been taken for years, who has condoned the massive use of undercover agents, why
do police use rental cars, how are individual performances rated, is there a code
for arrests as a standard, or is the reduction of crime in an officer's beat
the standard used. How many times can an officer fail to show up in court, thus
using the court and the police department as a way of harrassing people, by what
authority may a police officer call a parent to tell them their son or daughter
is dating someone of another race, or call an employer to tell them to get rid
of a particular employee. How does internal review work? When did internal review
begin to concern itself with outside complaints. To whom, and how is internal review
accountable. How is it possible to arrest people only on a charge of resisting arrest?
How can such a charge stand alone. What law entitles a law enforcement officer
to tell people to leave the city or the neighborhood or expect trouble? Why should
a police chief be continually defensive about his department. Is it possible for
a chief to be objective, what is the purpose of police department, why can't
the police department, with its unique powers, be subject to outside impartial
review; can we expect impartiality to out -weigh internal departmental pressures,
do we have the right to expect the police to achieve the almost super -human im-
artiality and detatchment necessary to receive investigate, hear and decide com-
plaints against themselves, their profession, the effeciency of their commands.
83 NOV 2 71974
1 *feet' as absolutely convirced that the quality of police work generally
and the negative, even hostile attitude many people now have now toward the
polite cannot be changed unless we have external review other than the courts
for external complaints, that can continue this work you have begun and leave
internal review for internal departmental affairs. Surely the police who are
amply aware of the uniqueness of this profession, recognize the need for impartial
review for citizen complaint if such review can demonstrate the legality of their
actions. Surely every honest officer would welcome such objective review. I do
not propose nor do I speak against consolidation of the Miami Police department
with any other, for no matter haw it might be organized the attitude of each
individual officer is the single most important consideration. If officers are
to have pride in their jobs, and dedication to the rule of law, then you must
lead the way in demonstrating concern for them and how they function, and for
the law. You must guard against the pas3age of laws which will predictably cause
corruption and necessitate a type of police work that demeans the officer, his
department and the City. In short, when you pass bad laws, you tempt the police
to behave badly. In addition to the continuing crack -down on crime, why not a
continuing crack -down on poor quality police work, such a crack -down monitored
by an outside review committee or efficiency experts at the very least. It might
result ina reduction in crime both inside and outside.
The police are your agents, they represent you in the community, justifiably
many police officers today feel isolated and misunderstood in a job that involves
enormous daily social, political and legal pressures. Perhaps the kind of department
that you and I hope for is not possible in these times. I am more than willing to
work with you to nee as much of our goal as possible. The police must run their
role as public servants in the limits of their power as police. You the City Com-
mission acting through an impartial outside review board, and I am speaking
for the ACLU and Officer Cook, must help them to learn.
Thank you for your attention, I'll be happy to answer any questions.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you very much Mrs. Wills Are there any questions of
Mrs. Wills? I might say Mrs. Wills that your's is a very carefully thought out
statement, and I for one, think there is a lot of truth in what you say, but
there are a lot of things I strongly disagree with, this is not the time nor
the place to do it, and I hope we have an opportunity to discuss it at some
time in the future. I think some of your statements are right on target and some
are way out, I couldn't subscribe to the extent of some of the things you said,
but like in everything else, like I said there is always truth, and I hope we
will be able to discuss it further. Any other questions? -----
Mr. George Arias, and then officer Ed and that is going to be
it for today ladies and gentleman.
Mr. George Arias: My name is George Arias, I reside at 1256 S.W. 3rd Street
Miami.
Mr. Ron Silver: Do you have a statement that you wish to make?
Mr. Arias: Yes, on March 14 1974 I took the Civil Service exam for
a test I passed without any problems. On May 10, 1974
I referred to the police personnel office by Civil Service for processing.
That process included a polygraph detector test, a medical exam and a physical
test which I also passed without any problem. On the morning of May 22nd 1974
I had the oran interview which rejected me on the grounds that I failed to
fill out a correctly. I was then placed ----
Mayor Ferre: I didn't understand that, repeat that again,
Mr. Arias: I failed to fill out a data sheet correctly, that background
on me, where I worked and stuff like that. I was then placed on the bottom
of the officer candidate list for a second referral. Four months later on
September 16, 1974 I was called back to the police personnel office for
processing. Again I took the lie detector test and the medical exam and the
physical test, which I again passed without any trouble, but oral interview
board rejected me again, this time on the grounds that my English was not good
enough to be understood and that I was not aggressive enough to be a police
officer. I would like to ask the city commission and the City Manager's office
for a review of my case and give me an opportunity to have a re -hearing with
oral interview board.
Mayor Perre: I want to say Mr Andrews, I don't know what we can do about
this. John, does this fall within our purview. I don't know if we have the
authority to do anything about this, but this poor fellow has been patient
84 NOV 2 71974
through the whole meeting, he sat through the whole meeting of November 6,
he sat here all day today, p4iently awaiting his turn and he really wants
to be a policeean bad. Anybody who sits through two days of this stuff,-----
Chief, anybody who sits throu,h two days of this stuff has got to want to be
a cop.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor the that are used here is a judgement
factor, there is a Black officer, a Latin officer, an Anglo Saxon officer that
sits on that board, made up of three people, ---
Mr. Arias: Excuse me, they Were not on my board.
Mr. Andrews: They were not?
Mr. Arias: As a matter of fact, the Sgt. that rejected me was there
twice. I can tell you his name if you like.
Mayor Ferre: All right, what is his name?
Mr. Arias: Sgt. Travis.
Unidentifed person: I interviewed this man, so I can speak to the issue
------we do have the file here and it contains the facts as we found them then,
but I interviewed him personally after the oral board rejected him. I concurred
with the oral board and I rejected him, and I wrote him a letter saying so.
Mayor Ferre: Now you have heard it.
Mr. Arias: Do anybody in here have trouble understanding me? How come
they say I am not aggressive enough. How would you define aggressiveness?
Mayor Ferre: I dont' know about your English, obviously I am biased about
all of these things, but as far as being aggressive, I can vouch for the fact
that you are aggressive. Chief what was the reason for the turn -down. Was it his
English?
Chief Fox: I have a summary of the findings here, I'd like to read it to you
if I may.
Mayor Ferre: Go right ahead.
Chief Fox: Mr. George Arias was referred to the police personnel office
on May 10 1974 for processing as a police officer candidate. Mr. Arias went
through the normal screening process without too much difficulty, until the
oral board disqualified him for falsifying his personal data form. He did not
.reveal an arrest in 1964 for petty larceny in which he was placed on 6 months
probation. At the time of his first disqualification Mr. Arias was told that
he could re -apply with the City in 6 months. Mr. Arias contacted Mr. Robert Faulk
of the Civil Service Board, whq placed Mr. Arias at the end of the present
register so he would be allowed to be reprocessed. Mr. Arias was referred again
on September 16, 1974 four months later, to the police personnel officer for
screening as a police officer candidate. He again went through the noram screeing
process until he reached the oral board and again was passed over for the selection
of a very qualified candidate. The Board noted that 'the applicant lacks initiative
and self confidence, he also has not given much thought to becoming a police
officer. He failed to fill out his application properly, his personal data form
leaving out some traffic tickets. At both time Mr. Arias passed his polygraph
examination, physical agility test and was disqualified by the oral board. It
should be noted that for the exception of one board member, the two oral board
were made up of different individual officers from the police department. Both
boards had access to the same information the candidates file. After Mr. Arias
was passed over by the second oral board, he went to assistant Chief Kenneth
Fox on Friday September 20, 1974, where Mr. Arias stated that he didn't feel
he was being treated fairly. Chief Fox conducted a thorough review of Mr. Arias'
file and reached the conclusion that it was in the best interest of the Police
department to pass over Mr. Arias' selection as a police officer at that time.
Please find a copy of the letter' --we have a copy of that letter if you are
interested. It should also be noted that Mr. Arias was refused employment as
a police officer with the Dade Public Safety department and with the Coral
Gables police department. That is the summary.
85 Nov 2 71974
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Arias, I don't what else we can do for you. I apt sorry
unless Mr. Andrews, you have some ideas.
Mr. Andrews: At this time i don't Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Plummer: Does any other department in the City have the oral board
and the right of rejection of an oral board.
Mr. Andrews: The department director reserves this right. in the police
department the procedures are set up more elaborately obviously because of
the contact, the law, all the involvement the police officer is subject to
in providing the services that he must. In the ordinary department, take Public
Work, Vince Grimm, he has the right of interview and right of rejection. Where
there is a promotion involved, the employee is already involved, then he has to
accept the person from the top of the register.
Mr. Plummer: It is the rLght of refusal of three, is that correct?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, --- ---
Mayor Ferre: Thank you very much Mr. Arias, and I am sorry we can't do
anything for you at this time . Is Officer Wright here? If not we are going to
conclude in a moment and go into a commission meeting and then we have a birthday
celebration real quick like.
As I understand it there are two actions that are going to be made by
Commissioner Plummer, so nobody gets concerned. Why don't you explain them so
everybody will know which way we are heading.
Mr. Plummer: The first one Mr. Mayor would be that if conclusion of
the examination and investigation by the International Assoc of Police Chiefs
that the City Manager appoint a permanent position of Chief of Police of the
City of Miami no later than January 15.
Mr. Andrews: I called between yesterday and this morning and have
positive information that this can occur this way. Mr. Mayor before we go
farther some financial factors here that I must explain, the service will
cost the city to provide a screening process if we receive 24 applications,
and this is culled down to 6, and then the 6 goes through a more elaborate
screening process consisting of 2 days and $6800.00.
Mayor Ferre: I hate to spend that kind of money.
Mr. Plummer: Let me have one understanding, if not I am going to
vote against it. Mr. Andrews I am willing to make the motion to approve
the funds to pay for this as long as you agree that you are going to abide
by their ruling.
Mr. Andrews: I don't know what you mean by that.
Mr.Plummer: You know what I am getting at. They are going to give you 6 names.
Mr. Andrews:I don't want you to put me in a position where if they put
1,2,3,4,5,6, that I have to select the top one, --
Mr. Plummer: Any of the 6,---
Mayor Ferre: Let me add my thoughts to it, so Plummer says I am not
putting words in his mouth, in my south, as I recall, and I was here ----
we went through all this we spent a lot of money last time having the
International Chief of Police go through all this rigamarole and then we selected
a guy that they didn't interview at all.
Mr. Plummer: That is exactly what I was speaking to.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor I can assure you if there are three names on that
lint I am going to try to pick a person from those three, let along 6.
Mr. Plummer: Of course, the second motion would be appropriating the
$6800.00, the third motion Mr. Mayor would be that the Civil Service Board
come back to this commission by no later than the 17th day of December, telling
86
Nov 2 71974
us what they would need to comply and irmple:eent on the federal order
as it relates to recruiting, that would be the third motion.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor before we deal with any of this, I figure it is
the Manager, ought to set forth what he is looking for in writing so that
the men who are in there already employed will know whether or not they have
a ghost of a chance. Secondly that those who come, that we would have the
advantage of knowing that this is the kind of a man we are going to be getting.
Mr. Manager what I am not telling you is what I want Reboso, Plummer and Ferre
and Rose to hear, based on the criteria that the Manager sets for a Chief.
I want to be fair to the men who are here, and then I want to be certain
that we could have outside if we need it, but I want to make sure that before
you start getting those guys here for that $6800. that you have set forth,
and we the commission, have a copy of what you are looking for.
Mr. Plummer: As I understand the Manager's statement before, you send
you were going•to send a personal memo to everybody above the rank of Lieutenant
inviting them to participate.
Mr. Andrews: But I understand what Commissioner Gibson is talking about
----he wants me to transmit to you those qualities that I see that are needed
for this position . I may not be able to put all the technical qualifications
but I certainly should be able to describe in all the things we have talked
about as far as the police department adequately the kind of Chief of Police
we are looking for, and the individual should be able to assess those qualities
before he makes an application.
Rev. Gibson: the men who are on this force,I haven't a thing
against, I want to make sure we give the people outside a fair
and impartial opportunity,
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor may I have your attention, I don't think that
it is fair for us to do anything at this point of the day, we have had no
information before us with the previous, and what we are changing to, and I
think the 5 day rule, I would ask you to uphold that, that we receive this in
writing, and we are having a meeting on Monday, that would be the proper time
to discuss this.
Mayor Ferre: I think J.L.
Mr. Plummer: ---I think Mrs. Gordon is wrong, --- --
Mayor Ferre.-----she might.be technically wrong but I think in the
spirit we have always had on this commission, --if you want to clarify
whether technically.. she is right or wrong, go ahead and do it for the
record,but I think in the spirit of what we have always done on this commission
-----in my three and one half years, whenever the 5 day rule is invoked, ----
Mr. Plummer: What I am contending is Mr. Mayor that the 5 day rule cannot
be invoked on a special meeting. A special meeting can be called by the Mayor
on the spur of the moment, and of course there is no possibility of the 5 day
rule.
Mayor Ferre: Techincally I guess you are right.
Mr. Plummer: That is what I am saying.
Mayor Ferre:----I don't want to give up that right, and that is why
I want you to clarify it by law. What I am asking you is, as a matter of
courtesy, let's get the clarification of the law, can under the Charter some
one invoke a 5 day rule on a special commission meeting called upon by the
Mayor?
Mr. Lloyd: There is a 5 day rule, however Sec. 9 of Sec. 2-9 says
'nothing in this section shall prohibit the Mayor from calling special meetings
at any time he may deem proper for the consideration of any business of public
import and without complying with the provisions of this section. One of the
provisions of the Sec. is the 5 day rule.
Mayor Ferre: So I can now call a special meeting of this commission
8 7 NOV 271974
and this commission can vote on the purpose of the special meeting as outlined
bar ere as Mayor. I want that clarified, I don't want it to be hanging loosely
and people misunderstand. I am perfectly willing as a courtesy to Mrs. Gordon
if it is all right with Mr. Plummer, I think that is a decision he has to make
top, then ,I'll awake mine,--
Mr. Plummer; Mr. Mayor it is not a matter as far as I am concerned,
I have not heard the concerns of Mrs. Gordon what 5 days or Monday would do
to change the thinking of selecting a chief,
Mrs. Gordon: I'd like to go back in my files, ---I'd like to review the
things we have passed before, and --------with what you are proposing, and
decide on Monday , I don't see any harm that will come about by doing it
that way, frankly.
Mr. Plummer: My feelings are very strong in the matters that I think
the chief has to be selected, the sooner it can be done, the better it is
going to be, we have to put a captain of the ship, without question radical
changes need to be made, and if what we are told there's going to be no radical
changes made until the new chief is selected. So Mr. Mayor the allocation of funds
I don't think is controversial at all, it's got to be paid, the in the
3rd motion is the Civil Service Board to make recommendations to us and I dont'
see where that is controversial, because we have no idea what their recommendations
will be.
Mayor Ferre: Are you telling me you want a special meeting at this time,
is that what you are telling me?
Mr. Plummer: Yes, sir, --
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Reboso how do you feel about this?
Mr. Reboso: At this time I agree with Mr. Plummer, I think as a matter
of courtesy, Commissioner Gordon is asking for the 5 day rule, I am willing
to comply with her request. That is Monday, right?
Mrs. Gordon: Right.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor I want to go along and I think out of fairness
and courtesy to a commissioner I invoke the 5 days because I am going to do
the same thing.on Monday, I am going to do today.
Mayor Ferre: Here is my ruling of what we are going to do. I am therefore
going to call right now a special commission meeting to deal with two subjects,
one is, the motion on Civil Service and the other one is your motion on the
allocation $6800. for this process which is needed, you have the right to do
that right now.
The other one I think Mrs. Gordon is talking to, which is the question
of setting a specific date for a police chief, -----
Mrs. Gordon: ------I would prefer, if you are asking what I prefer, for
my sake today, because I want to have the week -end, a holiday week -end to go
over all these things connected with ---
Mayor Ferre: I understand your purpose but as Mayor I have a right to
call a special meeting and I am telling you what I am doing, and I am calling
for a special commission meeting at 5:30 today for the purpose discussing
two items, and one of them is dealing with a motion about Civil Service and
the other about the expenditure of funds for in the International Police Chief's
search, or interview, whatever it is called, and only limited to that, and
not the other thing which is the main bone of contention.
Mrs. Gordon: Is the meeting in order?
Mr. Plummer: He called it at this time, right.
Mrs. Gordon: I move to table the motion, -----
Mayor Ferre: I have the right under the Charter to call the meeting.
Once the meeting is in session, the majority rules, but you don't vote on my
calling a meeting.
88 NOV 271974
Mr. P1u:atier: She did it before t made the motion. That is all right.
Mgyor Ferret First we have to adjourn the other board.
Mr. Lloyd: Yes, that is correct.
ADJOURNMENT: s The Meeting adjourned at 5:40 o'clock P.M.
H.D. SOUTHERN
CITY CLERK
MAURICE A FERRE
MAYOR
y NOV 2 71974