HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1974-11-06 MinutesMINUTES OF CITY OF MIAMI COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
(MEMBERS OF THE MIAMI CITY COMMISSION)
CONVENED FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE
INVESTIGATION
OF
CITY OF MIAMI POLICE DEPARTMENT
NOV -61974
MEETING: 11 o•vE
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
N. D. SOUTHERN
CITY CLERK
RALPH G. OEIGIE
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
MIAMI CITY COMMISSION
(Sitting as a Committee of the Whole to investigate
the Miami Police Department)
On the 6th day of November, 1974, the City Commission of
Miami, Florida met at its regular meeting place at City Hall
in said city sitting as a Committee of the Whole to investigate
the Miami Police Department. The hearing was called to order
at 9:35 o'clock A.M. with all members of the Commission present.
Mayor Ferre: We are gathered here today in a committee of
the Commission as voted upon by this Commission --Mr. Lloyd, would
you read into the record the exact law that covers this and the
resolution that was passed.
John Lloyd, City Attorney: A resolution setting November 6,
1974 for a special City Commission Meeting to be held between the
hours of 9:30 A.M. and 5 P.M. and to be continued if necessary
to another date to be set by the Commission, for the purpose of
conducting an investigation into matters relating to the morale,
efficiency and performance of the City of Miami Police Department
as they affect the citizenry of Miami, said investigation to be
conducted pursuant to and in accordance with the provisions of
Section 14 of the City of Miami Charter, said resolution being
No. 74-1208, passed and adopted at the last Commission meeting.
Mayor Ferre: As I understand it, we are not meeting here as a Commission.
We can't pass resolutions.
Mr. Lloyd: TRat is correct. The Commission is meeting this morning as a
spacial investigative committee pursuant to section 14 of the charter of the
City of Miami and as such, its powers today are limited to investigating.
Mayor Ferre: The way we will go about this is, I am going to make a
statement, then I .gill ask each one of my fellow Commissioners to make a
statement if they so desire in the beginning. Then Mr. Lloyd, I would like
for you to read exactly what the procedures are. Rabbi Sol Landau here in
Miami told me that in Judesic-theology, truth is a prerequisition of justice.
Reverend Mc Rinley of the downtown Methodist Church talking about the police
problems of Miami again mentioned the key word of justice.
He said the just application of regulations and laws is the key for peace and
unity in any community but Rev.McKinley said there was confusion about how
law and order and peace fit. The point being that law, order and discipline
must serve justice, they are not ends unto themselves. The problem of the
City of Miami Police Department is that law and order and discipline do not
always serve justice and before justice can be served, truch must be found.
The purpose of Our inquiry today is to search for truth. There are two broad
categories which we have addressed ourselves to. One'ie the general search for
truth of how the Miami Police department is functioning. Secondly in two specific
cases, the Cook and Dixon cases, since they are the most detailed and complete,
moreeo than others. It is important that we follow the internal procedure in
tge Miami Police Dept.. The essence of the comparison of the Cook and Dixon
case, is uto to verify that there was a beating of a citizen. In these cases,
we know that to be a fact. Nor is it to demonstrate the blame, the culpability.
That is the administrations role. Nor, is it to prosecute criminal charges.
That is the state attorneys function. It is rather for us to determine if the
rules, regulations and discipline are equally administered within the department.
If dilligent due process is not followed, then certainly this Commission must
conclude that all is not well in the police department. If the application
of the law and regulations within the Miami Police Department comes out to be
arbitrary, then we have serious problems because there cannot be any true
discipline without justice and in a paramilitary operation which a police
department is, poor morale and ineffective performance must be the ultimate
consequences. Since both the Cook and Dixon cases are not finalized, and we
do not have complete information, it is necessary to wait before we deliberate
on the broad aspects and results and today we will limit ourselves only to
NOV-6197
the general area of problems iti the police department. Chief Betnatd Garaire
is now retiring from the police depattment. We wish him well in his future
endeavors. t want to once again publically state that noe of my positions
have ever been personal. I think Chief Garmire is an honorable gentleman
knowledgable in police procedures. / certainly hope his remaining days with
the Sift/ police department, Chief Garmite will speak up in helping us find
*elution* to our problems. To the new chief, all the responsibility of
providing effective leadership. It will not be as it hasn't been an easy task.
One of the basic concerns throughout the United States in analyzing crime is
the inordinate proportion of poverty in a community. The conditions of the
ghetto in Miami are atrocious so that in comparison to the other 20 metropolitan
areas in the U.S. with a population in excess of a million, the relative
percentage of people living in the ghetto is smaller than the vast majority
of these urban areas and yet, we are continuously in the top crime statistics
in the nation. There ate some who say that we do not have enough money.
Since 1 started to serve the city as a commissioner in 1967, our iolice budget
has more than doubled. This year when you take into account the 10% salary
increase and the 18% fringe benefits, the City of Miami is spending over
24 million dollars in the police department not including over 2 million dollars
in federal grants for a core city of 350,000 human beings and a police force
of civilians and officers of clost to 1000 men and women, 24 million dollars
should be adequate to do the job.. Certainly, in porportion to other similar
police departments, this per capita expenditure does not stand out as being
unreasonable. I am attaching pertinent statistica which I think warrant a few
minutes of study. Lastly but perhaps most important, let me state my personal
opinion that the vast majority of policemen and policewomen in the police
department of Miami are honest, conscientous, dedicated, well intentioned
public servants. They are not compensated anywhere near the value of the
services they render and for the 5 years that I have served on this Commissior,
I have always been among those who have championed their cause at budget time
when without any hesitation ever, or any qualms, my record stands clear.
It is precisely in the best interests that these valiant and good public servants
that we must try to clear up the record. First because it is unfair to taint
the many by the poor performance of a few.. Secondly in a paramilitary operation,
a lack of discipline leads to poor morale. Poor morale leads to an ineffective
espirit de corps and all if this affects performance. It has never been my
intention to use alleged police brutality as a whippiny boy but is important
since this is where the record is best documented to inquire as to procedure.
We have chosen this avenue to go on because at this time we have no better road
to travel. Let me emphatically state my personal opinion that the matter cuts
the other way too . In other words, it is essential that the entire echelon
to back their men whenever the men are right. It is important that this
support is both in the best inerests of the citizenry at large and the officers
specifically involved. I am not one who blames all crime problems on social
reasons. If force must be used by an officerfor order, then so be it.
If heavier calibre guns are needed and shotguns and dogs are needed to keep
order, under the proper circumstances, they should and must be used.
However used if and when needed and under the control and conscientious ways
and never in anger and never unjustly. And if reprimands are a rool of
discipline, they must be justly and equally applied. I would like to state
at the outset of this inquiry, that the people who have been selected to testify
todayare but a portion of those that have requested or could testify.
What you will hear is in no way conclusive nor complete but rather a sampling
of problems that may exist. Our purpose in this inquiry is to determine the
extent of the problem and by bringing out the truth, whatever and wherever
it may be, we will then be able to determine the proper course so that we can
make sure justice is being done in the Miami Police Departuent.
These are statistical reports that have been compiled and they basically come
from the FBI statistics and if you want, you can take a few seconds to point
some things out to you.
On page 4. Prom 1964 to 1973, the City of Miami crime index more than doubled.
13,610 to 30,372.
THru the first 6 months of 1974, 17,610 crimes have been reported. a 191
increase over the same period last year. This, though the city's police dept.
budget has almost tripled from 1954 to 1974 from 6.1 million to 16.4 million
and that is exclusive of the monies directly received by the department from the
federal government in several grants since 1970.
4.4
NOV - 1974
It cannot be explained in terms of rapid population growth. Prot 64 to 73,
the eity'• population increased by 14% however, 63 to 73, when the crime
index increase has been'most notable, the city's population increased by
only 6%. in the 10 years when the city'e population growth has bi,en relatively
moderate, crime grew by more than 50%. with a nearly tripled police budget.
The backup statistics are behind there.
In 3 of the last 4 years, Miami's crime rate has been increasing at a higher
rate than the national index. As well as the index for cities com parable
to the size of Miami. 250,000 to 500,000 cities.
In 71 for example, Miami's crime index went up by 32% while the national index
was up 11% and index for cities of comparable size to Miami went up 8%.
Nov those are the highlights and the only reason 1 brought this out is that
I thought it was important for us to have right before us, the FBI statistics
about the increase in crime in our area. and to point out the aspects of bud;;et
and population growth.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, my statements will be very brief. Based on an article
which appeared in this mornings paper, some of the consensus of feeling of this
Commission expressed in that article seems that will take a different direction
than what had been proposed here today. Let me state for the record that I
have no objection whatsoever for a totally independent professional organization
to come in and do an evaluation and recommendations as it relates to the
City of Miami Police dept.. The only problems.I have with conscience is the
factthat many people who are here have requested on 2 different occasions to be
heard on matters before this Commission. I do not feel that in good conscience
we can tell these people for a 3rd time, go away, you are not going to be heard
again today. I think these people have the right as citizens of this community
to be heard. If it is not in the form of an investigation, they still have the
right to be heard. I have no objections to the professional organizations coming
in and doing an evaluation but I feel people have the right to be heard..
Twill reserve any other comment until after this Commission has made a final
determination as to what format we will follow today.
Mre. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, ladies and gentlemen. I believe that
Mr. Plummer's opening statementswere based on facts he read in the paper too.
Not upon facts that he has heard from me. I wish to say that to close this
hearing at this point in time would be in the public view comparable to a coverup.
Since we have gone this far in settin up this investigative hearing, in my
opinion, we must proceed and let the people express themselves, however,i
believe that we must engage the services of a professional firm to evaluate our
police department and to make recommendations from the statistical information
that they gather and from the information that they will be furnished from the
bearings that will be held here today. I am ready to make recommendations as
to those kinds of firms but I don't believe this is the proper moment because
the other Commissioners haven't had an opportunity to speak.
Mayor Ferre: Now Rose, I have to repeat what the City Attorney says.
We cannot make any motions at this meeting. This is not a Commission Meeting.
Mrs. Gordon: I know Mason's Rules.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Attorney, will you clarify why we cannot make motions at
this meeting.
Mr. Lloyd: Yes, I think everyone understands that this is an investigative
committee and that is all.
Mayor Ferre: We would have to go into special session which we can do.
Mr. Lloyd: Yes, that is correct.
Mayor Farre: We would have to call ourselves into special session.
Mrs. Gordon: I thought that was your intention Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: It is, at the proper time but this is not that time.
Rev. Gibson: Mt. Mayor and members of the CoMmission, ladies and gentlemen.
I think all of you know where 1 stand on this issue and Mr. Mayor, your
memotandum reached me this morning and I am not arguing about the timing because
its g1ot your fault. Maybe before I take my statement, I need to tell everybody
that I live at 3401 William Avenue so that when they bring these mettotanduas,
and I only got the memo one half hour before I came down.
Mr. Mayor, as you know from my conversations with you, I indicated at that time,
unequivocably that I would make the motion necessary to put this matter in the
hands of a special investigating committee of a team professional people.
I haven't changed. I have no objection to hearing the people who ate here, that's
not the issue. The issue is as I pointed out that all of us who sit up here
realize that we are not capable nor do we have the training to properly
investigate the police department and my final comment is this. I hope I will
be given an opportunity to point out to the citizens who are here what Booz-
Allen said in their recommendations for which we paid $30,000 and for all intent
and purposes, we have not looked at Booz-Allens report. You and I talked about
that, I want to put all: of that on the table because I believe th-.t we are going
to do in good conscience what I said in the prayer this morning- cod you know us,
you made us and hopefully God, we will not look for success but that we would
want to be loyal and true to our trust and that is all I want to say until such
time as you are prepared to adjourn this meeting and ask for a special meeting
then I am prepared to make the motion.
Mr. Reboso: Mr. Mayor, the memo I received from you last night, one paragraph
says that once the inquiry is finished, the testimony will be transcribed
and we should have the opportunity to study our findinds and then if necessary,
we shall call a commission meetings to act upon said findings. Due to the many
presentations, it is doubtful that we would conclude our hearings in one day.
That Mr. Mayor is the thing I am worried about. I am worried about it because
you will be sitting here as judges and the basic requirement to be a Judge is to
be a lawyer and none of the members of the City COmmission have a law degree.
I think in my opinion it would be unfair to the City Manager and unfair to the
next police chief to enter into this argument for 2 or 3 consecutive meetings
that I think is going to be the beginning of the end of the Miami Police Department
ad the City of Miami. I think the reason we are here today is that so far, the
City Manager has not acknowledged publically that such problems are taking place
in the Miami Police Department. Another reason we are here today in my opinion
is the most important, is the Officer Cook case. I didn't agree with the final
conclusion of the City Manager so before we proceed today, Iwould like to give
the opportunity to the City Manager to address himself to these two items.
If he recognizes the problems inside the Police Department and what is th
situation in the Cook case because as far as I know, already he arrived at a
conclusion in that case.
Mayor Ferre: Before the Manager answers, I would like to take the opportunity
to metion 3 things. In the first place, and this is in answer to my good
friend Manolo Reboso and Father Gibson and I don't intent to get into a discussion
on philosophy because we may see things differently but I want to express my
opinion.
Government does not necessarily function in the hands if lawyers. With all due
respect to my learned counselor friends, thank God, this is not a Court of law
here. We don't sit as Judges. We are sitting here as elected representatives
of the people and my friend a man with a 4th grade education could sit up here
and represent the people. We just had the case yesterday of an 18 year old kid
that was elected to the City Council of Opa Locks. That in no way disenfranchises
his ability. I might remind you that probably the best President of the
United States in this century, Harry Truman, was a Haberdasher and that didn't
disqualify him from being a good president. We don't sit here as a court of law.
We're not judges. We are not judging anything but we are trying to bring out
facts as to what is happening in the police department. Now the reason why we
are forced to do this as I see it is because it has not been done up until now.
Now if the manager is going to say, clarify that situation, lam perfectly willing
to listen but the key thing and I am sorry that this perhaps might be of concern
or worry to many people that are here.
4
St. hernard once said, if offense come from truth, it is better the truth
cote forward than offense be concealed.
We cannot, ladies and gentlemen in my opinion come to a just solution to any
of these problems united the truth is known and I do not think , not just from
the Cook and Dixon case but manyother things that we are really properly informed
as to the procedures of the department.
Nov those of you who feel that the City of Miami will suffer by this, I think
have a little more faith in the whole process. The only way the City of Miami
would be dissolved is if the people of Miami want it dissolved. There is no
other way and if we go about searching for the truth and for justice without
any concern other than to find the truth, I have a great confidence in the
fact that if it were put to a vote, the people would react to it in the way that
this country has reacts for 200 years. It is the very cornerstore of what this
country is all about an I have complete confidence in it.
Rev. Gibson: I want to interject this. Ihope that the people out here are not
getting mixed up now. Mr'. Mayor, I don't think you heard us right, since you
said Father Gibson and Reboso. I want to deal with 2 things.
I want to make sure you understand me. I thought we had this private conver
sation and you understood. me. I believe that what this public does not know
that the root of this matter is deeper than the Cook and the Dixon case.
That's what I want the public to know. I am trying to say to the public-
ok, get a professional team that understands police work and will deal with that
kind of a thing since you talk about procedures, we'll deal with that because
the Booz-Allen report told us some things that you, nor I, not one of us touched.
ok? Then, after you have made that determination, that you are going to get the
professional team to look at all of the police department and then if we have"to
have open heart surgery, have it. Then we_adjourn this meeting, get that teat.,,
get that out of the way, send them on their way and let the people be heard.
Public, we want to hear you and we defend your right to be heard, but we also
want that team so there won't be any hidden agendas or hidden documents not that
I am inferring there is but I believe that I want everybody to know my hand is clean.
Mayor Ferre: I want to answer Father Gibson and that as I told him when I
met with him the other day that I completely subscribe. Father Gibson was the
one that recommended to me, the Booz-Allen-Hamilton approach and he toldme that
this was something that he and Reboso believed in and at that early stage of the
game, I subscribed to it and I do today and I am not saying that we shouldn't go
that route because I think that is going to assist but from my personal experience
and from my experience in government, I know the buck stops at this table and
that we have the ultimate responsibility of making these decisions whether we are
lawyers or criminologists or anything else and I think that I am perfectly willing
and I think its a -:ery good idea and I subscribe to it and pledge to you that I
will vote for it when it comes up and it was covered in this memorandum which
I read to you 2 nights ago., when I called you and this is the same memorandum
that you received.
Rev. Gibson: I want to get the team first and put that on the table.
Mayor Ferre: That's fine, I'll go along with that.
Rev. Gibson:I am not arguing for any team meaning there is a memorandum which
says that Booz-Allen or like. I dn't care who the like is. I want the like
put on the table and you tell me the procedure and then lets hear the people.
Mayor Ferre: As long as we understand that when we go into a special commission
meeting, that we will reconstitute this hearing 5 or 10 minutes after that
and let the people who are here to testify.
Mrs. Gordon: May I speak now? There has been a lot of reference to Booz-Allen
and work they did with the police but as I understand it, the team that did
the real research in the police department was Stanford Research Institute and
if they have done a complete study, I have a copy of it here, its very pertinent.
Also there is a part of it which was done by the International Association of
Police Chiefs and I have a copy of that here., which is very pertinent also.
There is another institution and Ibring this to you for information, Im not
making motions which is called the Police Foundation - its funded by the Ford
Foundation and it comes out of Washington. They are totally impartial, they
are qualified. We have other avenues besides the one that was mentioned and I
think we must leave ourselves loose on the decision of which team and perhaps
Mr. Andrews could evaluate the qualifications of each of the teams on the basis
for the selection be left to him.
5
Mr. Reboso: Mr. Mayor, as t said previoualy, I would like to hear from the
City Manager in regard to the police department investigation.
Mt. Andrews, City Manager: I thought 1 was on the record quite clearly both
verbally and in report form which indicated that I believe and I have found
there were problems in the police department. I endeavored to enumerate these
problem and I attempted to identify what I believe were the more serious
areas that could be causing some of the problems such as the Cook case,Dixon
case and others.
I indicated to the City Commission that I was prepared with my staff and the
staff of the police department to begin an evaluation process which hopefully
would improve the conditions within the department and improve performance.
Certainly, I would welcome consultants to participate in this and to carry out
such a study, however, we must identify and clarify specifically the procedures
that the Commission would use in employing a consultant. If its for the
purpose of continuing an investigation to identify those problems within the
department, and to make recommendations to the Commission, then the Commission
turn these over to the City Manager who is responsible for the administration
of the City and the Police Department and in implementing those adjustments,
that is one manner in which you are proposing this as I understand it.
There is an alternative. That is that the City Commission authorize the
Manager to engage consultants who would work with the manager and the department
as problems are uncovered, to take those administrative actions to correct
those problems. There is a difference. One is dealing directly with the
administration and the other is of a service to the City Commission.
It would be in my judgment in the first case that I presented, a continuation
of the process that you are starting here this morning and that is identification
of the problems and understanding of those with recommendations flowing to the
Commission. That's one procedure. I prefer the one in which the Manager and
the Police Department become involved with a consultant. Identify these areas
of improvement and proceed to implement those. In my judgment, Clot is the
proper way to proceed. Now in response to the Cook case, specifi:ally, the
case in my judgment has never been closed by the City Manager or the Police
Dept. We have to this date reacted to information that has been made available
to us as an administrative finding. I have recently written to the states
attorney asking him for whatever information he has uncovered so that the
information could be made available to the City so we could make further
administrative judgments insofar as those persons involved in the COok case.
This is not closed by any means. But we have reacted based on the information
that we have available and attempted to treat the people involved justly based
on the information made available to us.
Mrs. Gordon: Were you just saying a few minutes ago that you were considering
using just the Bc.,z-Allen people?
Mr. Andrews: No,I didn't identify any paracular firm in relation to such •
a study. I had indicated when I first made the presentations to the Commission
about problems I thought existed in the department, I was prepared to use my
ova staff, some of the management analysts and some of the staff of the police
department. I say, I would welcome a consultant.
Mrs. Gordon: May I make a recommendation for you to persue because the police
foundation will not take every case unless its an unusual case and one that
they consider a challenge, they will pay for it as I understand it.
I ask you to contact them first so that if we meet the criteria that they are
interested in, that they would then come in here and do it impartial analysis
of what we are facing.
Mr. Andrews: For your information, you should be aware that on my own
initiative, I have already communicated with the International Association of
Chiefs of Police who are transmitting to me their current procedures for
becoming involved in evaluations and particularly selection processes insofar
as a new chief is concerned and I have also communicated with Mr. Pat Murphy
of the Police Foundation in Washington funded by the Ford Foundation and I
know they are sending me their procedures also, they are in the mail.
1)
Thete are other organizations throughout the country particularly on the west
coast other than Stanford Research Institute who are involved in these processes
Rev. Gibson: I have always been a stickler for cooperating with the admin-
istration wherever possible. I am opposed to what Mr. Andrews Said about,
let hies and his staff..
I'm not going to buy that. That is why we are where we are now.
If we are going to be true to what we say, what we are saying and demonstrating
by our presence here this morning, I want an independent team to come in here
uninhibited and we the Commission ought to instruct you to cooperate, you and
that staff. What I am going to say to the public is what nobody wants me to
say. I am afraid. It isn't impossible that I may get anxious andcome up there
and say you know, I think this is the way we ought to go and you raalize we all
vote and if they send that team in here uninhibited with no holds Sarred, n
strings, we the public and the Commission can be relatively sure not positivf
and that we ought to instruct everybody on this city payroll to cooperate or -
and the or is bring us your resignation if you don't want to cooperate. That's
what ought to happen and otherwise I want to tell the public, I as a Commissioner
have some fears.
Mayor Ferre: The problem as I see it and Mr. Andrews I hope that this is not
taken out of context but at this point, I guess I had better make this
statement. Back in 1971 or 1972, the Grand Jury came out with a report which
was critical of the police department. We have gone through the process starting
in November, its been a year now where the chief came down here and we asked him
what do you need to solve the problem? Just tell us and we will try to do it.
He asked for 3/4 of a million dollars, it was granted. He came down for a series
of meetings between November and May and everytime we asked him, how things are
going? He gave us a report basically things were moving along. Then came May,
and we have another Grand Jury report criticizing the City of Miami again.
Now if you were given an opportunity, first for 60 days and you requested longer
than that and you took 4 months, with good reason. Icompletely subscribe to the
reason why you needed more time, summer vacations and the budget process but I
don't want to get into another situation where we go through another series of
hearings with the Acting or the future chief and surveyed by you, with all due
respects, I am not satisfied with the report that was given here 2 weeks ago.
I just do not think that it went to the core of the area. In my opinion with
all due respects to you, it skirted the main basic issue and I have got to say
that publically. Now I want to say also publically that even though it showed
a lack of confidence on my part and I only speak for Maurice Ferre as Mayor on
this report, it is not sufficient in my opinion to warrant anything else other
than what we are doing because I think that your virtues as an administrator
in other areas far surpass this shortcoming which in my opinion, i apparent to me.
We have now got to find a way of taking the process into our hands, which is what
I think we are going at this point. Now as far as Father Gibsons comments are
concerned, to me, I don't feel as strongly about it as he does,
When the report is done and we have had other reports made in the past, so the
report in and of by itself doesn't mean anything. When the process is over,
you are the one that is going to have to live with it but I understand Father
Gibsons point of having an independent team,uninhibited and I would go along
with that.
Mr. Plummer: I have listened to all of you now. The City Manager gave us Plan "A"
and Plan "B" and he favored one over the other. One of the great failings, I guess
of all cities is that we have too many studies done and too many reports written.
Then, never implemented. I think the shelves around here gather more dues and we
spend more money for the warehousing of studies than we ever knew what to do
with. I think the Manager, Father, we can have the best of 2 worlds.
Isay that based on this. You have heard me complain very bitterly many times
when we pay a consultant, a professional, a great deal of taxpayers money to come
in and do a study, they do it, they drop a bomb on us that we can't live with
and they are gone. My proposal to all of you hopefully to understand when I say
we get the best of 2 worlds. #1 to get a totally independent professional organ-
ization to come in for evaluation and then that same organization, stick around
for implementation to work with the city manager after they have made their
evaluation and then they can work with the City Manager for implementation.
I think if you do that, we have accomplished "A" and "B" and I think Mr. Mayor
if we are going to accomplish anything with an outside organization, that
same group cannot come in here, do their study, drop a bomb, grab their paycheck
and go home.
7
NOV -6194
They have got to stick around and take tare of helping thib Commission and
the Manager ibplewent their recommendations and I would hope that is what
this Commission has in taind.
Rev. Gibson: J.L. we aren't separated. I just don't want -I would hope that
we would go to the company that write those suggestions. I don't want to
follow what the Manager just said. I want to spare the public from the dangers
inherent in what you are saying. I want them to come in, look over, investigate,
then tell us, stick around and see that these things are implemented -right.
Mayor Ferre: I will live up to my commitment and I think this mi;ht be the
time and I would like to take up and we will have to constitute ourselves
in a moment in a special commission meeting and then we would take up, I
would hope the recommendation of Father Gibson and Mrs. Gordon and of the V{ce
Mayor and vote on that and then we would go to the procedure on the selectiin of
a chief of police which I would like to bring out in the open before this
Commission for a determination and then we would constitute ourselves back into
the committee to start hearing the testimony as outlined in this.
I know that there are a lot of anxious people here that want to speak. I won't
recognize you at this time because if I do, thenthere is no way we can control
the meeting. I cannot recognize one and not the other.
(Inaudible comments from J.L.Plummer-microphone not functioning)
Mayor Ferre: Is it your intention to reconstitute ourselves after the meeting?
We are now going to vote to adjourn this temporarily and then we will
constitute ourselves hopefully in the next 15 minutes.
Mrs. Gordon: What difference would it make if we continue with your special
investigative hearing and do this other portion at the tail end of the day?
Mayor Ferre: Because Father Gibson has requested that it be done this way.
It seems that is the consensus of the commission.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I understand that it would be better procedure
parlimentarian and the Lawyer over here tells me that I make a motion that
we recess .
Mayor Ferre: There is a motion to recess. Is there a second. Second by
Father Gibson. Is there further discussion on the motion? Call the roll on
the motion to recess.
THEREUPON IT WAS UNANIMOUSLY AGREED ON ROLL CALL TO RECESS THE
SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE AT 10:25 O'CLOCK A.M. THIS DATE.
NOTE: Special Meeting convened immediately - please see following page.
ATTEST: H. D. SOUTHERN
City Clerk
8
MAURICE A. FERRE
MAYOR
NCV - 61974
M yor Ferre: Ladies and Gentlemen, that coriciudea our Special CoMmigaian
Matting,
Mts. Gordon: Before l vote on adjournment, I have a question.
The purpose of that number "Cr dileneated which was to furnish a list etc. etc.
rather bothers me because of "D". I don't know the purposes behind it and -
Mayor Ferrel The purpose is that we have the opportunity to ask the new chief
whoever he is, specific questions.
Mrs. Gordon: I voted on it but the whole thing bothers me a little bit.
Mayor Ferre: What is it that bothers you?
Why don't you tell it like it is?
Mrs. Gordon: Let it go.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the City Commission,
on motion duly made and seconded, the meeting was adjourned at
10:53 O'Clock a.M.
ATTEST: H. D. SOUTHERN
City Clerk
RALPH G. ONGIE
Assistant City Clerk
TEN MINUTE RECESS
MAURICE A. FERRE
Mayor
At 11:02 O'Clock A.M. the Commission again convened as a Committee of the
Whole to investigate the Miami Police Department.
Mayor Ferre: Would all the witnesses who have been subpoened come over here?
There are many people here who want to speak and it is impossible for us to
recognize everybody at once. I promise you that if you want to be heard, you
will have the opportunity to be heard. It's important however like everything
else because we have to have a certain amount of rules, regulations and dis-
cipline that we follow a set pattern. While we are waiting for the rest of the
Commission, Mr. Lloyd if you will read please to everyone present the exact
procedure on how they are to testify and what it means.
Mr. Lloyd: The Committee will now proceed to secure information necessary
to be determined by the'committee for the purpose for width it was created.
I think all the Commissioners should be seated and present before you call
the meeting to order..
Mayor Ferre: We are all present now, proceed.
Mr. Lloyd: Witnesses will be called before the committee. They should be
called according to the agenda which you have prepared because they have been
subpoened and are expecting to come in some type of order. Now when a witness
is called before the committee, he will take an oath administered by the
City Clerk. If such a witness is a city employee, he should be advised and
will be advised by Mr. Silver whoe is conducting the committee that any
information that any answers he gives to questions by the committee may be
the subject of a disciplinary proceeding by the Civil Service Board, if such
facts indicate a violation. Now he doesn't have to be advised of his right
to counsel because no real right exists before such a hearing. The Civil Ser-
vice rules of the city provide section 12 entitled dismissal - that no city
employee shall be excused on a' plea of self-incrimination, nor from other
reasons from giving information which may bear on his fitness. The committee
may investigate any matter which is within the scope of the authority
NOV - 61974
You see, I don't know what is going to core out. I don't know what Mt.
Phil Knight who will be talking to ua in a moment is going to say comp etely,
I don't know what any of these other people are going to be saying.
Obviously, I have some idea or I wouldn't have called them but I don't have
the specifics of what they are going to say. Now you, yourself may conclude
that you may want to hear more. I don't know that but I am certainly not
going to come to a conclusion at this point.
There is one more pertinent fact that I think has to be brought out.
The only people that have the right to subpoena and bring witnesses here and
get into these matters is the City of Miami Commission. The Ford Foundation
cannot do what we are about to do.
Mr.Plummer: I sat as a member of a committee under Section 14 to conduct an
investigation in the cabe of Leroy Smith. It was the opinionuof the committee
members, both Reverend Graham and myself that we had the righr to bring in
outside help and that they enjoyed the same priveleges that tLe committee enjoyed.
Am I right or wrong in that Mr. Lloyd?
Mr. Lloyd: I don't understand the question. Outside help from what standpoint?
Mayor Ferre: In other words, could we take our authority under Article 14
and transfer it to another body?
Mr. Plummer: We are not transferring Mr. Mayor, they are doing the job for us.
Mr. Lloyd: They may do an investigative job for you and this has been done
but as an Investigative Committee, NO, the Investigative Committee
must be members of the City Commission.
Mayor Ferre: That's the point, nobody else can do what we are doing but us.
Rev. Gibson: Suppose somebody who works for the City that we deem necessary
or otherwise, if the firm that we ask to investigate said I need the testimony
of John Doe, what then?
If we need Joe Blow who is the Major or Sally Sue who is the Captain, how
how does the team get sally sue or joe blow?
Mr. Lloyd: Very simple. The Manager orders them to appear and discuss the
matter with this investigative team that you have engaged but as far as
issuing subpoenas, investigating people outside the city structure, that
preroggative is solely vested in the city commission.
Rev. Gibson: 'would hope we the Commission would have a session with the
team and say to the team, any and every person who works for the City that
needs to be queried, that we hereby instruct the Manager or hereby request
that at that point the Manager forthwith would order that individual to appear.
Suppose he says, I am not going to appear.
Mr. Lloyd: I have already told you about that.
Rev.Gibson: No, no, no man, wait. Suppose the individual decides, I don't
want to stop the process, does tk.is Commission have to go back into session
and vote to subpoena that somebody for the team?
Mr. Lloyd: No, the answer is that disciplinary action may be taken against
that individual according to the civil service rules.
Rev.Gibson: What about John Doe the public? How do we get John Doe the
public to testify?
Mr. Lloyd: You only ask them to come in and talk to this committee. You
cannot, unless you constitute yourselves as an Investigating Committee
subpoena them.
Rev. Gibson: What you are saying is, if John Doe the public needs to be heard
from by the team, citizen, in order to get John doe before that committee,
we must then physically assemble here and subpoena them and then the committee
can sit here and hear them?
Mr. Lloyd: Correct.
Rev.Gibson: Good enough. I hope my fellow Commissioners are totally committed
to bring in all the people if the team says we need John Doe, I hope we will
then come back here, have a meeting, vote to subpoena and bring that somebody
before the committee.
NOV - 61374
Mayor Perris I certainly father would subscribe to that philosophy but it has
to be the will of the majority.
Rtv.Gibaons I just want to know, ',want to make sure that we are committed to
going ma the way as we get going.
All tight then, I are committed, I hcpe there is a majority so I could invite
all and any andall the people in the community to be interviewed by that team
of people.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Lloyd, clarification please, is it necessary for this Commission
to exist as a Committee of the Whole for investigative purposes once we have
engaged the services of a professional consultant team?
•
Mr. Lloyd: That's not for me to decide. That is for this Commission to de ide.
Mrs. Gordon: That is a legal question.
Mr. Lloyd: That is not a legal question. That is up to the Commission.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, I am asking you. Is it your intention?
Mayor Ferre: It is my intention, if necessary and the majority of this
Commission so wishes to continue this committee until our work has been done.
If its finished tonight, fine; if we haven't finished tonite, then the next day
or the next week or next month.
•
Mrs. Gordon: You haven't answered my question. Our work meaning the list of
witnesses you have now subpoened or a list that you may subpoena after this,
I am trying to get your intentions straightened out.
Mayor Ferre: I am trying to make them as clear as possible and I don't see how
I could make them clearer.
Mrs. Gordon: One more question -
Mayor Ferre: Well let me answer. Now as far as I am concerned, I have selected
out of maybe 200 names that I could have called, 36 names.
Mrs. Gordon: Okay now one more question. The clarification of your intent.
In the event the majority of this Commission were, felt that it was superfluous
to sit as a committee; Investigif.ting Committee of the Police Department, once
they have a professional consulting team working on it, would you, is it your
intention to proceed alone or with another member of the Commission as a small
committee of investigation?
Mayor Ferre: I would not have the authority to do so unless the Commission
vested me with that authority however, as a private citizen and with the
information that I have, it is certainly my intention to turn over and par-
ticipate in giving all thie information to whoever is making this investigation.
Mrs. Gordon: I didn't ask you that. I asked you if you were going to
continue your own investigation in addition to the professional firm, if in
fact the majority said, lets go back as a Commission and not as an Investigating
Committee.
Mayor Ferre: Mrs. Gordon, I would answer you this way. I think it is the
responsibility of every Commissioner and the Mayor to be as aware of what is
going on in the City and to be as fully informed and if things come to my
attention that I feel are not right, then certainly it is my intention to
bring them out.
Mrs. Gordon: That wasn't what I asked you but if you are going to answer me
that way, theta okay. We'll let it go.
Mayor Ferre: The answer is yes.`
Mrs. Gordon: Your intent, the answer is yes, okay.
10
Mayor Perim: The am is yea, that if I am.not satisfied, We will continue.
Rev. Gibson: What I think Rose is trying to Fay and which I hope will not
happen is there won't be 2 investigations going on at the same time, theta
what she ie saying. Now you know white folk speak maybe one languate and
black folk another but i'rn pretty sure what I said is pretty clear. Are you
going to have two investigations....
Mayor Ferre: No.
Rev. Gibson: All right, that is all we want to hear.
Mayor Ferre: The answer is no. I certainly do not intend to work unilaterally
if I can avoid it. However, if I cannot avoid it then I will. That is all I'm
saying.
Mrs. Gordon: You're saying yes and no, ok.
Rev. Gibson: Boy, that's loaded!
Mrs. Gordon: That is what you call a good political answer. Ok.
Mayor Ferre: No, it isn't a political answer. Let me, you keep saying that,
Rose. You keep saying that. Let me repeat it so you understand. The answer
is that if there is a committee here to investigate - yes, it is my intention
to turn over all of this information to them, yes I will cooperate with them,
no I will not hold meetings of my own, no.I will not continue to do this uni-
laterally. However, if the committee is hot selected, if it does not proceed
the way I think it should then I'm going :o continue to be involved and I'm
going to expect you to be involved.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I'tn concerned about your judgement. I'm concerned
about your judgement rather than the judgement of the majority of the Commis-
sion. Now let me make sure everybody understands me. I don't want nobody to
get me in the box and then when they start pitching their ball man, I can't
hit it. I understand the danger of what... For the benefit of all of you
out here and up here, I went to law school one day and I ain't about to let
nobody back me up in the corner. Now Mr. Mayor, Rose asked you a very positive
direct question and what I hear you saying is if the team comes in here and the
team doesn't dance the way you want them to dance maybe they're tangoing over
against bumping you say you're going to have an investigation of your own. We're
saying that if they're bumping, we all going to let them bump or if they're
tangoing we going to let them all tango. That is what I want to hear. Now
if I can't hear that here's what I'm prepared to do. I'm prepared to let you
go ahead and then I'm prepared to, hopefully we'll have a meeting and then we
will rescind by vote.
Mayor Ferre: You do anything you want, Father.
Rev. Gibson: Oh, no. We are a Commission now.
Mayor Ferre: I'm going to tell you that you are not going to impose upon me
my conscience and my responsibility as one man sitting on this Commission.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I hope you don't impose yours on us either.
Mayor Ferre: I haven't tried to.
Rev. Gibson: I hope not.
Mayor Ferre: I have only one vote....
Rev. Gibson: That's what I think I hear.
Mayor Ferre: I have only one vote on this Commission and that's all I have.
Rev. Gibson: Beautiful, and I hope you will abide by the rule of the majority
rather than by the rule of minority.
Mayor Ferre: That's like saying that in a legislative body the minority has
no right to express an opinion or to have a concern for something and I think
we've seen more than once in this country where a man who has a conviction can
stand on it. Now I won't recognife you, sir, I'm sorry. Now can we get on
now with this hearing? Would you call Mr. Phillip Knight, please. Mr. Knight,
my apologies to you and everybody else who have been waiting patiently two hours.
1� NOV - 61974
Mr, Silver: Mt. Clerk, would you swear the witness in, please. Sir, would
you please state your name and address.
Mr. Knight: Phillip W. Knight. My professional address is 25 W. Plagler
Street, City National Bank Building, Miami Florida.
Mr. Silver: And Sir, what is your occupation?
Mr. Knight: I'm an attorney, sir.
Mr. Silver: And sir, are you in some way connected with the City of Miami?
Mr. Knight: I am.
Mr. Silver: And in what capacity is that, sir?
Mr. Knight: I represent the City of Miami in Civil Actions as distinguished
from criminal actions against the Police Department and their attendant officers
for alleged civil wrong -doing such as assault and battery, liable, slander, false
arrest, false imprisonment and, things of this nature.
Mr. Silver: Sir, I believe they are having some difficulty hearing you out
there. Is that microphone on, Mr. Southedrn?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, it is on.
Mr. Silver: Are you the attorney for the insurance company, sir?
Mr. Knight: That is correct, sir. One of the insurance companies.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir, in that capacity you've had occasion then to come
across claims that have been filed by the City.
Mr. Knight: That is correct, sir.
Mr. Silver: And could you tell us, sir your experience with those particular
claims?
Mr. Knight: I have been representing the City in this capacity for approximately
over two years, sir. Originally when we,undertook to represent them my first and
primary contact with them is by and through their Internal Review Department,
Internal Security Department. I'm sure that the Mayor and Commissioners and fam-
iliar with that department. In essence, that is a Police Department that polices
the Police Department and I was vitally interested in the method by which this
department conducted its investigations of alleged or wrong-dnings on the part
of the officers against the citizenry of our City and STate.
Mr. Silver: Do you receive reports directly from the Internal Security Depart-
ment of the City of Miami Police Department?
Mr. Knight: Yes.
Mr. Silver: And could you enlighten us as to the contents of those reports in
a general sort of way, how they are prepared?
Mr. Knight: Sir, my initial review of the department led me to believe that
they were sorely under staffed in a sense that the officers there were doing
an excellent job but however, the number of prsonnel that was available to them
prevented them from accomplishing this. I conferred approximately two years ago
with the officers in charge of that and so expressed to them. They, of course,
explained that their hands were tied, they couldn't have any more personnel. I
requested a conference then about a year ago with Chief Garmire and again explained
to him my concern for this under staffed department. It was my personal feelings
as a citizen of this Community as well as an officer representing them that every
. citizen that has a complaint against an officer is entitled to voice that complaint
to the appropriate personnel head. Then I think that the Internal Review Depart-
ment should call that citizen in and get a sworn or transcribed statment of he
and his attorney if he is so represented concerning this alleged wrong doing. I
think that the department should then call in the officer that was allegedly in-
volved in this wrong doing and he should be interrogated. Any fellow officers
should be interrogated. Any witness should be contacted and interrogated. This
is a very complicated and time consuming project. I was advised by the Chief
that this was just utterly impossible to accomplish this within his budgetary
demands.
2U
NOV - 61974
Mr, Silver: When were you ho advised of that, sir?
Mr. Knights Approximately a year ago, sir. Then later I still felt that the
problem was deteriorating to the point that further action was necessitated.
I then contacted the Mayor's Office and explained to him the problem. On a
comparison basis, for example, the Dade County Public Safety Department as I
understand it has 16 Internal Review personnel. I think they have 5 steno-
typists that take and record these Statements down. It is a very important
function that they do. the Mayor agreed with me that there appeared to be a
problem in this area and sugges+-ed ! confer with Mr. Andrews and Mr. Andrews
was kind enough to come to my office about a month or so ago and I again ex-
plained to him and showed him the problem and he was very concerned with it.
He indicated that this was his first knowledge of the problem that we were
having in this area and indicated that he would do everything in his power to
rectify it. Then we had another meeting just last Wednesday and I had another
meeting just yesterday and at the meeting last Wednesday the Police Chief was
present and he said at that meeting that he needed at least 6 more men in that
department if he was going to be able to handle the job in the manner in which
I felt it should be professionally accomplished. I asked the City Manager at
that time, can we have those 6 men in that department because we need them.
And I've had no response.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Knight, excuse me. Let me ask you this. Do you represent
other municipalities and governments in the same form?
Mr. Knight: Yes, sir. Well, I'm general counsel for the primary insurance
company who writes all of the sheriffs Departments in the entire State of
Florida.
Mayor Ferre: Well, what other cities do you do?
Mr. Knight: It goes all the way up the coast to Ft. Lauderdale, is an equival-
ent. Of course in the City itself we have the Public Safety Department which
is a larger police force as you can well imagine, than yours.
Mayor Ferre: So you do Ft. Lauderdale and Metro.
Mr. Knight: Yes, sir. Now I don't personally handle those cases up there. I
select a local counsel and supervise them in their representation of their various
sheriff's agencies municipalities.
Mayor Ferre: Would you say there is any significant difference between the
records and files that you receive from the City of Miami and those that are
received from Metro or Ft. Lauderdale, for example?
Mr. Knight: Yes, sir. AS I explained to you, there is no comparison, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Would you explain that in more detail. How substantial and how
important is the difference?
Mr. Knight: Well, for example, when a citizen will write in to the City ,
Manager of the City Attorney or the Mayor indicating that he feels that a
wrong has been accomplished against himself that letter in turn is referred
to me. I in turn refer it back to the City and say send me ynur Internal
Review file in the matter. If you do not have an Internal Reviw file create
one because many times this is the first notice that the City has that there
has been any alleged wrong doing. I would say of those in the pst, Mr. Mayor,
I understand it is going to be corrected in accordance with these last meetings
I've had these last couple of weeks; there has been nothing done. There has
been no Internal Review file created other than to supply me with a copy of the
police report or the arrest record and if the use of force was involved, the
use of force report.
Mayor Ferre: Now Mr. Knight, I went to visit with you sometime within the last
week and I asked that you bring the last 10 files that have been submitted to
you. Did you do that?
Mr. Knight: No, sir. As I advised you at that time the candors of ethics pre-
clude me from discussing in open forum any pending litigation that I had.
Mayor Ferre: A11 right. Can we discuss them generally?
2.1 .
NOV - 61974
Mr. Knight: yea, sir.
Mayor Perrot We arbitrarily took the last ten and you indicated that in some
of their or actually in the majority they were written and they were very thin
files. As 1 recall you compared, you had one stack of Miami files and they
were all rather thin files and you showed me the Metropolitan Dada County files
and they were all rather thick. And i asked you if I could see them and you
said ho because that was a County matter and you would have to get their per-
mission.
Mr. Knight: That is correct, sir.
Mayor Ferre: But there is a, there was a substantial visible difference in the
amount of work done in each one of these files.
Mr. Knight: That is correct, sir.
Mayor Ferret Now in the last 10 files you showed me in the City of Miami, you
showed me specifically where you had gotten a letter or a memorandum from Major
Mc Laughlin in which in some cases there was not even a trace of the file in the
City of Miami. Is that common?
Mr. Knight: That is common. Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: How common?
Mr. Knight: I would hesitate to base a percentage on it as much as I'm under
oath because I've done no detailed study on it, Mr. Mayor. But I would say it
is the majority of cases.
Mayor Ferre: The majority of cases come back ....
Mr. Knight: In the past, now, Mr. Mayor. I want to be in all fairness to them.
This is being rectified, remedied, I think at the present time. But this is very
important, if I may interject it at this time. We have found that at least 95 to
98% of the time once the detailed Internal Review file is investigated it shows
an exoneration on the part of the police officer's wrong doing. Everybody that
is arrested and handcuffed and taken to jail is agreed and it is human nature to
feel that a wrong has been accomplished. But once an internal review file is
created, as I indicated to you, at least 95-98% of the time the officer is com-
pletely exonerated by independent witnesses that have nothing whatsoever to do
with it. This Internal Review file is a device that should assist the morale
of the City of Miami. This is not something to harm the police officers. It
is to dig in and find out what the truth in fact is. Two to three, perhaps 5%
of the time maybe the officers did make an error in judgement or misidentificat-
ion, the wrong person was arrested or something of this nature for which the
person is entitled to compensation and those cases are amicably disposed of.
But the overshelming majority of cases when an Internal Review file is created
assists the officers more than it does hurt them.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Knight, I'm bothered by one question or one thing that you
said. You said that you felt that every one who wished to testify on a given
complaint should be given that opportunity.
Mr. Kni ght: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: I'm bothered by that. I know of some cases or in many cases
where you might have as many as 25 or 30 people. Now are you saying, I hope
I'm hearing you wrong. Are you saying....
Mr. Knight: You're not, sir.
Mr. Plummer: That we should hear from each and everyone of those?
Mr. Knight: The Internal Review Department in my opinion, sir, the citizens of
this State is entitled to have every citizen come to that department just as
same as a citizen can go to a policeman and say somebody down the street is doing
something wrong and the police will investigate that to determine whether or not
something is wrong. If they're complaining that the police -have done something
wrong I think whether it is 25, 50 or a thousand people are entitled to have
their grievances looked into by the Internal Review Department.
APPLAUSE
24
NOV - 61974
s
Mr. SilVen Mr. Knight, do you know if that procedure is being fo110Wed in
other jurisdictions?
Mr. Knight: Right here in Dade County, the Dade County Public Safety bepart-
sent, each and every complaint regardless of the number of complaints. Some-
times when we have the riot sections where they have alleged that the police
have used undue force or something and the places are burned down, every per-
son that wants to come down there is invited to come down there and give their
version of what they know about that icident, Mr. Plummer.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Knight, let me ask you does Metropolitan Dade County and the
City of Ft. Lauderdale do it that way?
Mr. Knight: That is correct, sir.
Mayor Ferre: So they do it. Now let me ask you something else pertinent to
that. How much have our payments gone up in the last year, let's say.
Mr. Knight: I was at a meeting where that was discussed. Sir, I represent the
insurance company but I suggest that you refer to....
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, the question is how much have our payments or perhaps
the Law Department really should answer that, how much have our payments gone up
within the last year?
Mr. Lloyd: I think the premium rose from $60,000 to $150,000. Am I correct in
that? I think so.
Mayor Ferre: From 60 to 150 thousand. Why would the premium go up?
Mr. Lloyd: On the basis of the experience of the insurance company.
Mayor Ferre: What has been the experience?
Mr. Lloyd: Possibly Mr. Knight might be more qualified than I am to talk
about that.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Knight, what has been the experience?
Mr. Knight: We have had a rash of increase in claims of alleged civil wrong
doing but I hasten to point out that this isn't preculiar only to the City
of Miami, Mr. Mayor. We have had the same rash of increase in the Public
Safety Department's claims, etc. It's my own personal feeling, sir, if you
will and I have r;u basis for this but I think that the abolishment of no fault
legislation led eager attorneys to seek other areas where they could bring law-
suits. It has been showing its increase in products liability, medical mal-
practice, attorneys mal practice and other areas as well. So that in part
explains it. And the dollar has gone up. Jury verdict awards are much larger
now than in the past. There are many many factors that go into it.
Mayor Ferre: A11 right, Mr. Knight, if we had the men available in Internal
Review to document these cases and take the testimony from everyone who wants
to testify do you think that would simplify your job as our attorney defend-
ing us?
Mr. Knight: There is no question, sir. I was told that the insurance company
paid independent investigators who performed the services that in my opinion
should have been done by the Internal Review Department the sum of $26,000
last year, independent investigators. That $26,000 has to be reflected in
their premium charges, sir and that could result to a savings to that extent.
Mayor Ferre: Now in your opinion, and this is just pure conjecture and I'm
asking just your opinion, would the citizens of Miami save that money of these
5 or 6 extra people if we had them functioning?
Mr. Knight: Yes, sir. It is my opinion that it would be saved to that extent.
Mayor Ferre: So it would be a savings in addition to having better document-
ation and a better procedure.
Mr. Knight: Yes, sir.
NOV •61974
•
ROO. Gibson* i want to follow J. 1..'s reasoning. He always reasons about
Bey. Vie not sure we might save the money but want I'm positive of is that
the bitiens would be better served.
Mr. Knight: And the Police Department as well, sir. Both hands are served,
Reverend, X agree with you.
Rev. Gibson: J.L. always sake if you put in a new machine; he said he is con-
cerned about how much more that is going to cost. He says there is a 'idden
agenda dollar -wise. So I'm not too worried about the $26,000. I'm so ried
that the public won't be shafted and that you know all of this is swept under
the rug. Do you know what I mean?
Mr. Knight: Yes, sir.
Rev. Gibson: Ok, good.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Knight, you have repreEented the City for how long, sir?
Mr. Knight: The City of Miami approximately two years in this capacity in
the police matters, sir.
Mr. Plummer: What is been shown to the actual complaints? other words
were there, when you first started were there 30 complaints in that year and
what are they this year?
Mr. Knight: Now Commissioner Plummer, I haven't done a study on that and I am
under oath and I would hesitate with authenticity but if you would ask me to
give you a ball park figure I would say we have an increase in frequency of
claims on an average of about 25%, I would say in the last two years building
up.
Mr. Plummer: Does that same percentage ball park figure hold true in other
cities that you represent?
Mr. Knight: No, sir, strangely enough Dade County is a litigious county as
you well know. We have approximately one half of the practicing lawyers in
the entire state of Florida practicing in Dade County. We in our rates, our
jury verdict rates are notoriously high throughout the United states. In fact
Dade County is considered one of the highest verdict areas in the United States.
Mr. Plummer: Comparing, sir, the City of Miami to Metropolitan Dade County
has Metropolitan Dade County shown about the same percentage of increase as
the City of Miami.
Mr. Knight: I would say approximately correct. Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Knight, do you think that the fact that Metropolitan Dade
County has the jail, does that at all influence those figures?
Mr. Knight: Yes, it does because of course there is a rash of alleged over-
crowding in the jails, hangings in the jails, things of this nature and all of
those result in extensive litigation for which the City has no responsibility.
Mayor Ferre: Eliminating the jail would you have any information as to whether
the percentage increase would be as high?
Mr. Knight: I'm sure it would not be as high.
Mayor Ferre: It would not be, thank you. All right. Now Mr. Knight, I asked
you a question one time, asked you if you were a school teacher and you were
going to grade Metropolitan Dade County and the City of Miami what kind of a
grade you would give Metro.
Mr. Knight: Again, Mr. Mayor and I again don't want to be misquoted on this
point, I was speaking entirely of the Internal Review Department. I'm not
talking about the caliber of the personnel or otherwise.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, I'm talking specifically
No....
Mr. Knight: The Internal Review Department, I think is understaffed in the
City of Miami by at least 4 times.
2t
Mayor Parrs: tet me rephrase my question, t'm not tacking about the quality
or the efficiency of the Police Department of the City of Miami. t Make no
apologies for them. t think we've got the Police Department in the State of
Florida.
Mr: Knight: Here, here.
Mayor Ferre: As far as the men are concerned. All right?
Mr. Knight: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: I'm not asking you about that. I'm asking you, we're talking
specifically about Internal Review and I wasn't even speaking about the men
in Internal Review. I was speaking about the way it functions and I said
if you were a teacher what would be the grade - and I'll repeat as I rememlar
the statement, you correct it or verify it.
Mr. Knight: I think about 4 times as good....
Mayor Ferre: What you told me was that I would give Metropolitan Dade and
comparable Internal Review a grade of 80 and the City of Miami a grade of 20.
Mr. Knight: That is probably correct, sir. I don't recall the figures. I
said if I were going to reschedule them I'd but them both up..percentage
points but it is at least four. You need at least 4 times more Internal Re-
view personnel both clerical and personnel wise to accomplish the job that
should be done.
Mayor Ferre: Do you have any further questions?
Mr. Silver: I just have one further question, sir. Is there anything else
that you think contributes or would be helpful not in the adm.,nistration of
the Police Department?
Mr. Knight: I want to again emphasize that the present personnel in the Inter-
nal Review Department are doing an excellent job. It is just that they are
under staffed. That is all and again, the officers... I'll reiterate what
the good Mayor has just said is doing a good job. But I think that the cit-
izens and the officers can be better protected by an increase thFt expanded
Internal Review Department.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Knight, I want to repeat one more time that it is not in my
interest to pin blame on names. That is not the purpose. The purpose of why
I asked you to be here is after you made the statements, I want to point on the
record that there is a problem. I'm only interested in the bottom line. The
rest of that is the administration's problem.
Mr. Knight: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Silver: I have no further questions, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Does the Commission have any further questions?
Mr. Plummer: Let me clarify one further point. Mr. Knight, when did you
bring this to the City Manager's attention first?
Mr. Knight: The City Manager, I feel it was about a month ago. Mr. Andrews
can reflect on that...
Mayor Ferre: No, it was before that.
Mr. Knight: Was it....
Mayor Ferre: Yes, it was in the early part of the summer, I think perhaps in
May or June.
Mr. Knight: I can get the exact dates and supplement the record for you...
Mr. Plummer: Well, what I'm getting at, you said if I remember correctly
that you brought it to the Chief's attention approximately a year ago.
Mr. Knight: That is correct, sir.
2J
N O V « 61974
MM. Plummert Mowing the structure of the Ci::y of Miami and the conern you
had for the companies that you represent I'm questioning why you didn't go
to the Manager at that time.
Mt. Knight: Because Y felt that it was the Police Chief's responsibility
not the Manager's responsibility to get it done and there was nothing being
done to my satisfaction adn that's the reason I turned to the Mayor. And
the Mayor who I happened to have known for a number of years on a social
nature more than it was a business nature in my discussion of the matter with
him.
Mayo Ferre: Just for the record sc that you know now that you have made that
statement, have you ever represented me, my family, any corporation, any assoc-
iates of mine?
Mr. Knight: I did, yes, I did, strangely enough. Your sister was involved ?n
an accident one time with a car that one of the insurance companies represented.
Mayor Ferre: Well, were you for or`against her.
Mr. Knight: I believe I represented her, sir. I'm not sure.
Mayor Ferre: The insurance company?
Mr. Knight: Yes, sir. But that is the only occasion, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Is there any questions? Hcw long ago was that, Mr. Knight, do
you recall?
Mr. Knight: Eighteen years, I believe.
Mayor Ferre: Eighteen years. Ok, thank you, sir. Are thereany other quest-
ions?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, the Manager is bringing to my attention that he has
some evidence, information that might be pertinent to this. Do you want to
put that on the record?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, of course, if the Manager wants to.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor, I would like to bring to your attention and the Com-
mission's attention that I've made a comparison here between the City and the
County based on information I obtained or staff obtained from the county, from
the Public Information Unit's Statistics of the Sheriff's Office and from the
insurance management of the County. The City of Miami has approximately 732
officers. Metropolitan Dade County has 1290. Our officers make arrests of 30
during this past year using the ,statistical year of 73-74. Our 732 officers
made approximately 31,000 arrests in the City of Miami. The 1290 officers of
Metro made 21,000 arrests, approximately.
Mayor Ferre: Versus our how many?
Mr. Andrews: Thirty-one thousand. In other words our 732 officers made
30,000, 31,000 arrests. Metro with his 1290 officers made 21,000 arrests.
Now, the City of Miami has an average claim file which the insurance company
process and we have open claims at the present time amounting to 76. Metro-
politan Dade County with the lesser number of arrests, the lesser exposure;
in fact the exposure factor in the City for all officers including the Chief
is 43 arrests per officer. In the County it is 17 arrests per officer. And
I should qualify the arrests that our arrests do not include shop lifting and
drunk types of arrests. In the county their arrests do not include persons
under 18 years of age but these are established well enough so a comparison
can be made. Now as to the number of open claims, the City has 76 open claims
and Metropolitan Dade County deducting the claims for the jail activities have
113. So there is about 40% more claims with far fewer arrests which are an
exposure factor and I think this reflects directly on performance.
Mayor Ferre: Is it your opinion, Mr. Andrews, that the Internal Review Sect-
ion is functioning to your satisfaction?
Mr. Andrews: 0n no, sir. Not at all.
Mayor Ferre: Do you think it can be improved?
2i
NOV -61974
Mt , Andrews t Yes, Sir ► very Much to.
Mrs. Gordon* May we have a copy of What you read.
Mev. Gibsont Would you read those figures again, I was....
Mrs. Gordon: Maybe ha will give us a copy and we could keep it.
Mr. Andrews: I can make a copy.
Mayor Ferret All right, are there any further questions of Mr. Knight?
All right, thank you very much, Mr. Knight for being here. Now ladies and
gentlemen, I want to explain the process and I want everybody in the room to
understand that some of these people that are going to be called are being
called because I think it is important to get on the record officially thei
views on a particular or a general matter. Now in the Dixon case which is
not closed, I realize that this is not a court of order. This is not a jud-
icial process. We are not going to be hearing from all witnesses, we're not
going to be hearing, there is no cross examination, there is no jury. This
is just a fact finding board and I therefore apologize and hope you don't mis-
understand the intention of some of these things. I admit from the very out-
set that in many cases it will be one sided and it will be one person's opinion.
That does not necessarily mean that it is the truth or that it is necessarily
completely factual. But it is the sworn statement of an individual. Now at
this time I would like to call Mr. Joseph Avril. Mr. Joseph Avril. I think
it might be appropriate for maybe you and your associate, Robert Mayer to
speak together rather than separately since you were both there in the inci-
dent together.
Mr. Avril: It is fine with me.
Mayor Ferre: Is that alright with you? So let me call Mr. Robert Mayer.
Mr. Silver: Mr. Clerk, would you administer the oath to both of these gentlemen,
please. All right, Mr. Avril, would you please state your full name and your
address, please.
Mr. Joseph K. Avril: Joseph K. Avril, 6245 S.W. 121 Street. (duly sworn)
Mr. Silver: And are you employed, sir?
Mr. Avril: Yes.
Mr. Silver: And by whom?
Mr. Avril: WTVJ.
Mr. Silver: A11 right, sir. Mr. Mayer, would you put your name on the record
too, please and address.
Mr. Mayer: Bob Mayer, 5301 S.W. 77th Court, Miami. (duly sworn)
Mr. Silver: And are you employed, sir?
Mr. Mayer: Yes, I am.
Mr. Silver: By whom?
Mr. Mayer: WTVJ.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir. Mr. Avril, did you have occassion on May 7, 1973
to involve an incident involving City of Miami Police Department?
Mr. Avril: That was 1974, this year.
Mr. Silver: May 7, 1974.
Mr. Avril: Yes, I did.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir could you please relate to this committee exactly
what you observed.
isOV «61974
Mr. Avrilt As 1 Was walking, out of the rear of the building where trey office
is at 45 L.N. 1rd Street as I was crossing the parking lot at Channel 4 1
caught a moved ent of light to My right. 1 looked down at the entrance to the
City of Miami Parking Garage and I saw one man on top of another kicking the
person, what I thought was his chest with his knee like this. 1 thought it
was a heart attack victim and I thought they were trying to shock the heart
back to life so I ran down to see if I could help. When I got closer I saw
it was two Miami Police Officers grappling with a subject, a black male on
the pavement.
Mr. dilver: How did you know they were City of Miami Police officers?
Mr. Avril: I recognized the uniforms.
Mr. Silver: Ok, fine.
Mr. Avril: As I ran up I saw they were trying to get the subject handcuffed.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Avril, excuse me, one moment please. I have to get this
record straight. Mr. Mayor, I have no objections to these two gentlemen testi-
fying. I am concerned and I want the record to reflect my concern that the case
in which you are testifying is an open case and presently being investigated not
only by our Internal Security but also, I have reason to believe, by the States
Attorney's Office. And Mr. Mayor, I am only expressing my concern that open
testimony is being given in two cases that are presently open and not completed.
Mayor Ferre: Look, let me explain the importance of
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I just make that concern.
Mayor Ferre: I share your concern. Let me explain why I have requested that
these three gentlemen, there will be another one, testify. This case, ladies
and gentlemen, this incident happened almost 6 months ago to the day. I hope
to show not today but I hope to show in the comparison of the Cook Case Versus
the Dixon Case that the same procedures have not been followed by the City of
Miami Police Department. Now a great deal of what I am basing my opinion on
is based on the fact that the same procedure has not been followed and I want
to very specifically point that out. It is important to do that to get the
testimony of these people on the record. I might say that they have testified
previously. I don't think that they are going to say anything that they have
not said before. And these two particular cases that are not open to the pub-
lic and therefore to any attorney in the lawsuit.
Mr. Plummer: Well, as I understood Mr. Avril who spoke to me personally at
WTVJ on a Sunday, I think your conern, if I'm not mistaken aside from the case
is the delay of nothing being accomplished.
Mayor Ferre: That's what I'm going into.
Mr. Plummer: Ok. Now Mr. Mayor, I think .under those circumstances that Mr.
Avril can testify to that without doing ally harm to an open and pending case.
Now I'm only raising these concerns because they are concerns.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, then I'll tell you what the alternate is so that we
don't get into trouble. Why doesn't Mr. Avril read the statemrrnt that he
made and then it is identical but I want it to be read into this record ident-
ical to the one he has made in public, I mean this is a letter addressed to
Major A. J. Mc Laughlin, May 8, 1974. Would you give that to Mr. Avril.
Mr. Avril: Do you want me to read this?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, I think that would avoid then the problem Commissioner
Plummer....
Mr. Avril Do you want me to read the letter I wrote to Major Mc Laughlin too?
Mayor Ferre: It is on the record so read the letter and read the statement that
you made.
Mr. Avril: The letter is dated May 8, 1974, addressed to Major A. J. Mc Laughlin
who is in charge of Internal Review of City of Miami Police Department:
"Attached find memo I wrote to myself shortly after the incident: I had
spoken to Major Mc Laughlin before this and told him I was sending my notes to
20 NOV «61974
•
Myself. "Other notes of persona who witnessed the same event are Bob Mayer
Channel 4 News, Dick Leh>an Wometco Public Affairs, and the cameraman Dave
Dersheimer who assisted the police in cuffing the subject. Since 1 talked
to you I spoke to Bill Brazil the Vice -President and General Manager of WTVJ.
Re related an incident he witnessed this past Friday, this would have been
in early May of this year, approximately two blocks from the station in which
he observed approximately 6 Miami Police Cfficers beating up a single black
Male. Another employee here at the staticn, one Howard Swidler later and
independently told Brazil that he too witnessed the incident and was shocked.
AS I told you on the phone, I'm sorry this has to happen because we all know
these are difficult times to be a police officer. But I hope that I and others
are speaking up for the professional officers of the force in deploring and
exposing these seemingly brutal acts." May 8, 1974. And this statement was
attached. These are notes that I wrote to myself just after I had witnessed
the Dixon incident.
"As I walked out of the back entrance to 45 N.W. 3rd Street approximacr'.y
3:40 P.M., May 7, 1974 I observed two police officers in uniform on top of
one black male on the pavement just outside the entrance ramp to the City Park-
ing Garage. The first movement I saw was one police officer kicking with his
knee the subject in the chest abdomen area. I at first thought it was a heart
attack victim and the police officers were attempting to shock the heart into
life. As I ran closer I saw they were attempting to subdue the subject and
that the two original officers with the help of Dave Dersheimer of Channel 4
News had him cuffed on one hand and were attempting to get the other arm around.
The subject at this time was simply squirming around on the ground when abruptly
one or two squads arrived almost at the same time and the first officer I noticed
was tagged Robertson who put his knee on the subject's face and methodically
began to grind it into the ground as he now too grappled with the subject. By
this time, a matter of 5 seconds at the most, there were anywhere from 4 to 5,
possibly 6 officers actively either pummeling, hitting or generally physically
detaining the subject who was by this time handcuffed behind his back - both
hands secured with cuffs. I generally objected to what seemed to me during
the later period when this officer arrived on the scene as excessive force to
subdue the subject and continued my objections whereupon Robertson asked for
identification. I gave him my Metro Public Safety Department I.D., he took my
name down. I continued in the area for a few minutes talking to another officer
whose name was Coleman, I think about the excessive nature of the arrest which
he continually asked, "Have you ever been a police officer? And I know all
about their sociological (expletive deleted) and I've got my Master's Degree
in that." I shortly left the scene with by this time 5 police units on the
scene, an ambulance and a police emergency unit. One of the original officers
on the scene was named Vincent who was fighting the subject and who seemed to
have the situation under control with the help of Dersheimer and his partner
Soler, I think the name is. A fellow by the name of Mike Harrison," (This name
has subsequently turned out to be incorrect because in the excitement I didn't
quite catch it - I thought it was Harrison.) At any rate, "A fellow by the
name of Mike Harrison who works for Florida Power and Light was working near
by. He tole me he witnessed the same incident and thought the police had been
excessive in their attempts to subdue the subject."
"This account was typed by me within 10 minutes of the incident in office
at 45 N.W. 3rd Street." Signed below.
Mayor Ferre: All right, now let's see if we can get Mr. Mayer to read his
statement into the record.
Mr. Silver: Mr. Mayor, just one, Mr. Clerk, could you mark that as Committee
Exhibit #2. The Manager's Report will be Committee Exhibit #1.
Mr. Mayer: This was not the same type of statement. This was an interview
conducted by a Sergeant Veal of the Miami Police Department, Internal Security
Unit on May 9, 1974. Two days after the incident he came to the station with
a tape recorder and I have just gotten a copy this morning of a transcript of
the interview. Would you like me to read the entire thing?
Mayor Ferre: If you would.
Mr. Mayer: Question: Sir, would you please state your name and address and
phone number, please.
Answer: Bob Mayer, address here 30 N.W. 4 Street, WTVJ, 377-8241 extension 262.
Question: Mr. Mayer, I would like to call your attention to the 7th of May, 1974
at approximately 3:37 P.M. and ask you did witness Miami Police officers making
an arrest of a negro male who has been identified as Roland Dixon.
2ti NOV - 61974
10
Answer: Yes, I witnessed the arrest, t don't know the name.
Question: I understand. Would you explain to me in a narrative forth exactly
what you observed from start to finish please as best you can?
Answer: All right. Ok. Well, simply we were both in the parking lot. My
cameraman and i were pulling out of the parking lot. This was third street,
pulling out on third Street and we were starting to head west to cover a story.
We noticed at the time that two police officers were up against the side of a
cruiser, a white police cruiser apparently trying to arrest what appeared to
be a drunk. It appeared to be that and it appeared to be that they were having
some trouble. You know the man was flailing about, he didn't want to be arrested.
He was obviously resisting arrest. The man who was with me, Dave Dersheimer
thought that he might go over and give the officers a hand because they were
having problems.
Question: Did he physically participate with the officers?
Answer: Yes, Dave Dersheimer physically put the cuffs on the suspect.
Question: I understand.
Answer: What had happened was Dave has had some police training, he was in the
military police and it was his opinion from what was going on it was getting to
be a very violent struggle. The police officers, it appeared to me were over
reacting, reacting terribly. They called in two or three extra units. One of
the police officers took his billy club and was smashing this poor guy over the
head; I don't know how many, maybe ten times full force on the head.
Question: Was he handcuffed?
Answer: Not at this point, not at this point. Dave just thought they were
handling it all wrong and he went over. By the time he reached there the man
was on the ground, the suspect was on the ground and tl^ey were trying to cuff
him and they couldn't. Dave asked if he could help. I think at first they said
No, no, no. But then they said alright and Dave said "Hand me your cuffs, I can
get his arm back. Give me your cuffs and I'll cuff him." So Dave took the
cuffs and cuffed the suspect's right arm first. His other ari was still under-
neath on the road. He was on his stomach. Dave then as the other officers were
holding him, Dave got his other arm, pulled it back and cuffed the other arm.
Question: So his hands were cuffed?
Answer: Right. The struggle continued even after this, and more officers
came. I would guess there were four officers on top of this guy and at about
this time, what I think was a fifth officer was in a unit, came up and I can't
identify what officer was what, that's the problem, but I was standing in -
to the rear of the suspect who was stomach down to the road, and his face was
turned leftward and this fifth policeman came over and just kicked him as hard
as he could in the face, and his eye popped out.
Question: Popped Out. How far were you from the incident when the guy walked
over and kicked him in the eye?
Answer: Okay, - now, I was standing right next to the suspect I would say.
Question: Two feet, three feet?
Answer: Two feet from the suspect. Now, from my angle, my vantage point, I
couodn't see where the foot hit in the face, I thought he kicked his teeth out.
but when I got around to the other side, I saw the eye hanging out.
Question: So it was obvious it was the eye area.
Answer: Right. Now, there were a lot of witnesses, a lot of people watching,
including Joe Abrell, who is the Public Affairs Director.
Question: I have his statement, and a letter from Mr. Abrell.
Answer: Right. Now, Joe saw the officer kick the man's eye out, he got very
upset, and he said something to the effect that - he went over to the officer
who did it and said, "Just a minute," you know, "What's going on here, you got
four guys on top of a drunk, you know this action is unnecessary, you're over-
doing it a little, aren't you?" something to that effect.
Questions i understand.
Answer: The officer got very arrogant and told hint to get his identification
out irseediateiy, asked who he was, told hiin to get his identification out in%-
mediately, and Joe proceeded to do so, at the same time asked the officer for
his identification, and he said, "there's my identification", pointing to his
badge.
There were some words between the two, ana Joe said he's never seen any-
thing like this before and the officer said something to the effect that,
"well, you're not a cop, you don't understand, you'll never understand", and
Abrell said, "that's (expletive deleted), and you know it is". That's about..
Question: That's about the whole thing.
Answer: At that point the - I had asked the cameraman at that point, after oe
cuffed the suspect, to get his camera, you know, 'cause it was obvious that
something was going on here that was not right.
Question: Right.
Answer: So I asked him to start shooting some film, and he did. However, I
don't know what came out because we were set up for an inside story and there
was no filter in the camera, you know, so the film could be ruined. I haven't
had a chance to look at it.
Question: Mr. Dersheimer, what time does he come to work, is he around now?
Answer: Dave works from nine to six.
Question: Nine in the morning to six in the afternoon. Is he off today?
Answer: (in the background, "I believe he's off today.) I believe it's his
day off.
Question: Okay. Will you see him tomorrow?
Answer: Tomorrow may be his day off too. Today is Wednesday. He's off
today and tomorrow.
Question: Has everything you've told me been exactly what you observed, to the
best of your knowledge, Mr. Mayer?
Answer: Right.
Question: The only thing you..
Answer: Oh, I can add this - Dave - if you want to get into hersay.
Question: I'm gonna take a statement from Mr. Dersheimer, and you can just
relate to it.
Answer: Well, I'll relate to it. Dave said, when he first went over -Dave
ran over, I was in the car, which the car was like kpart way into the street in
our parking lot. Dave ran over, and I proceeded over a couple of minutes later,
but he said the officer, the original officers, at the time when we walked over
there, were choking him. He said the man was about to go, you know, and Dave
told them to stop.
Question: I understand. The first two were choking him rather than trying
to subdue him.
Answer: Right, you know, and eventually, when Dave insisted that he was just
trying to help, and trying to get it done the right way, they let him, and when
he left, Dave told me that they asked for his name and address and said they
were gonna send him a letter of commendation for helping the police out.
Question: Let me ask you this. Would you be willing to assist us in taking
a formal statement from a stenographer. There'll be times when I'll try to
do it as much to your convenience as I can.
Answer: Absolutely, there's no question.
Question: You will.
Meyers There's no question. t wane make this clear. The man they were
artteting WWI resifting egreet no question ebou it,
Question: t understand,
Ahswert You know, the whole thing Was a., you've got one buy flailing around,
resisting arrest, They called in three police units, artd four or five police-
men, and'with all of that, you know, excess brutality to an extreme where a roan
lost his eye. tt was horrible. I've never seen anything like it in my life.
Question: I understnad. But you will assist us in any departmental inquiry.
Everything I gather is gonna be taken to the State Attorney's office in the
event that the State Attorney files charges, and bound the officer over that
kicked the man's eye out.
Answer: But the problem - i don't know.
Question: Well, that will be identified. All I want to know, will you cooperate
with us?
Answer: Yes.
Question: That's all I want to know.
Statement concluded 12:39 P.M.
Mayor Ferre: All right. Thank you, Mr. Mayer. Ladies and gentlemen, the reason
I have asked Mr. Abrell and Mr. Mayer and Mr. Patterson in a moment to testify is
there was an article in the Miami Herald where Lieutenant Murphy was gtoted as say-
ing that there was no problem in the Internal Security and I don't know Lieutenant
Murphy, I don't know who he is. I've never met him in my life. He made a state-
ment that it was all political, that there was no substance to the charge that the
man's eye was kicked out after he was handcuffed. We've not heard into the record
two eye witnesses that specifically state that the kick to the face was after the
hand cuffing.
Mr. Abrell: I would like to clarify that, I did not actually see the kick as my
statement said and Bob's statement...
Mayor Ferre: Bob's statement has specifically stated that. Now yours, if I may
see it for a moment, I think there was a statement that the-mplication was pretty
clear.
Mr. Abrell: Well, the implication shouldn't have been such. I observed what 1
thought was excessive force. I did not see a kick to the head. I saw the eye
popped out of the cheek after it was pointed out to me, of course. But I just
want to correct the inference that Bob's statement that the officer that I talked
to was the one that I saw kick. That is not the case. But it is obvious that his
eye was gone on the scene and I did observe what I related to be excessive force,
head grinding into the pavement and so forth after he was handcuffed.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Abrell, to you or to Mr. Mayer, the incident that you have re-
lated is somewhat what we have heard from reports. Going beyond that point,
sir do you have either of you, any criticism in the manner in which this has been
handled by either the Internal Security or the States Attorney and do you have
any solutions or recommendations which you feel would be beneficial to eliminate
these problems that you feel might have occured in this particular case?
Mr. Abrell: Well, I won't make recommendations. I don't think that is my per -
view. I'll just state for the record what happened. That same afternoon I was
very agitated about what I had seen. As I was back out on the scene I saw a ser-
geant walking up and down as if he was trying to find out what had happened. I
went up to the sergeant, I said, "Are you here about what happened with this guy?"
I didn't know who Dixon was. He said "yea." I said would you please come up to
my office. That was Sergeant Zamora who I thought was in charge of the shift at
that time or something and I related the entire incident to him. I read this
same statement to him, I gave him a copy and I said I wish you guys would handle
this yourself. I know it is trying times to be a police officer, it is very dif-
ficult to be a police officer and I was very concerned that - I felt then as I
hope I feel today that there are enough police officers who feel concerned that
they can handle these things through the Internal Security Procedures. I had
great faith that that would happen. A couple of days later I called Major
Mc Laughlin to see how it was going and he knew nothing about it at which point
I told him what had happened, read him my statement, sent him a copy with the
Wirer letter that you Saw that I dent to him. Tithe now goes by and Sergeant
Veal• eagle to take my statement and I took Sergeant Veal to other witnesses who
had dean it. Now this is in early May now and,I never heard anymore about it
until about two and a half weeks agc when a colleague of mine at Channel 4, I
caked hint to check it was told that since they couldn't actually identify who
actually kicked the eye out the investigation was open and pending. I became
very agitated again and made a call to Mayor Perre, Stets Attorney Gerstein
and subsequently talked to Mr. Andrews repeating my concern that this did not
seem to be getting anywhere, that some definitive decision should be made as
to what happened and who was responsible.
Mr. Plummer: And I understand that your concern, not speaking to the case
itself is that you feel that there has been a great deal of delay and this has
not been brought to a conclusion.
Mr. Abrell: Well, that is a difficult statement to make. Investigation pro-
cedures are hard. There are problems and I hate to make the final judgement
that they took too long. I'm just telling you the time sequence, we're talking
almost 6 months and my actions based upon that time sequence. That is for some-
one else to determine if it took too long.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayer, do you have any comments towards that kind of question
sir?
Mr. Mayer: Well, I would just say that the impression that I was given from the
Internal Reviev► Section from Sergeant Veal that interviewed me as was evident in
the question and answer, there is certainly an implication that they would be
getting in touch with me shortly and they wanted to be absolutely sure that I
would cooperate with them to the fullest extent.
Mayor Ferre: Did they? Did they ever call you again after that?
Mr. Mayer: They never called me again after 6 months ago. That was the 1st I
ever heard of it.
Mayor Ferre: Did you ever appear before any committee in person to answer any
questions?
Mr. Mayer: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: You have not heard at all from them since you made that statement.
Have you, Mr. Abrell?
Mr. Abrell: Yes, as you saw in the letter that I, the original statement that
I made I gave the name of an eye witness to the entire incident from beginning
through the end. All of us came in at various times but as I was leaving the
lot a man ran up to me, a young guy and he said "Hey, I saw tie whole thing -
it was terrible and if you need any help I'm willing to tell what I saw because
the police are out lying." I put his name down as Mike Harrison. That has
turned out to be wrong. I gave that information to the police on May 8th and
last night I got a call from Sergeant Veal saying if they knew where I could
find Mikd Harrison.
Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, I think it is important at this stage for
me to make this statement to you. I asked Mr. Andrews, I don't remember the
time, several weeks ago I would imagine as to this case and as to Joe Abrell -
I asked you to call Joe Abrell and discuss it with him. The question of a
missing witness came to notice and I've been pointing it out. I want you to
know that as of yesterday the man, I could not identify him. I subsequently
asked one of my secretaries to call up Mr. Gene Autry's office who is the
Vice -President of Florida Power and Light and I said I want you to give me the
list of the crew that was working at this location on November 7th of 1974.
A list was given and there were a dozen or half a dozen men and in it was the
name of Michael Patterson. It became obvious to me that Michael Patterson was
the witness. I then looked up in the telephone directory and got Mr. Michael
pTterson's number, called him and subsequently talked to him last night. Now
I'm not a policeman and I'm not an investigator. But certainly if of my own
volution can find Mr. Patterson certainly I would imagine that the Police Depart-
ment with their ability should have found Mr. Patterson a long time ago. And
I understand after subsequently talking to Mr. Patterson that he had made a
statement. Now that statement is something that I have not seen and I think
at thus time it is appropriate to call Mr. Patterson forward.
Mrs. Gordon: Do you want to correct the minutes, you stated the wrong date,
Maurice. You said November 7th, 1974....
as
NOV - 61974
Meyer Ferret
Mra. Gbtdont
Mayor Ferre:
t Mean May ith'. e*cuse Me.
i know.; I just wanted you to put that into the record correctly.
All right. Is Mr. Patterson still here?
DMIbENTIFIED SPEAKER: I have not seen this than since the day it happened.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Avril, if you would, would you remain in case some other
questions come up? But let's hear from Mr. Patterson.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, let me ask this question. Sir, does that look like the
man you were dealing with?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, that is hits.
Rev. Gibson: That is the man, ok. The reason I asked that is he said you had
not seen him. Now I want to make sure there is no mistaken identity.
Mr. Silver: Let the record reflect that Mr. Avril is the individual that is
identifying Mr. Patterson. Mr. Clerk, would you swear the witness in, please.
Mr. Michael Patterson, 1815 N.E. 172 Street, North Miami Beach, duly sworn.
Mr. Silver: Sir, are you employed?
Mr. Patterson: Yes, sir. I am.
Mr. Silver: And whom are you employed by?
Mr. Patterson: Florida Power and Light.
Mr. Silver: Alright, sir. Did you have occasion to observe an event involving
the City of Miami Police Department on May 7, 1974?
Mr. Patterson: That is correct.
Mr. Silver: And sir, have you issued a statement to that regard?
Mr. Patterson:
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Patterson:
accord.
I did last night to a Sergeant Veal.
You did last night?
You had not made a statement before?
NJ. Nobody ever got in touch with me. I did it on my own
Mayor Ferre: I see. Later on, I want to establish through Sergeant Veal exactly
why it took 6 months to find Mr. Patterson..
Rev. Gibson: Sir, where is the statement?
Mr. Patterson: I believe Sergeant Veal has it.
Rev. Gibson: Where is the Sergeant? Well, Mr. Mayor and members of the Commis-
sion, I would hope that you know we pay pretty good salaries and people ought to
be able to get things done a pronto. I'd hope that we would be reading. You
see, I don't want to prejudice my case to the court. I hope we wc•ild be reading,
Mr. Mayor, why don't weIget the statement and read the statement that we don't
overplay our hand. How long, brother... How long, that's what the prophet said.
How long? Before we get the statement, you understand me! Please, a pronto.
We'll wait.
Mayor Ferre: All right, if you'll get the statement in the meantime, Mr. Patterson,
then we will just limit our questions to you not on the incident itself but on the
procedure that was followed subsequent to that and your statement. Now would you
just for the record state that you did see what happened from the beginning.
Mr. Patterson: From my view I did.
Mayor Ferro: You did see it.
Mr. Patterson: That is correct.
34
Mayor yerref Ali right. Mow tell me, after the incident, let's not into
the discusgion of the incident, just after the incident, once the man war
handtuffed and in the car Start at that point and tell us what you said,
what you did and what has happened since.
Mr. Patterson: Well, he wasn't returned he was taken to the hospital in t
believe tooala type of &Mbuianc.e but after that t was Upset about it and I made
any own call at my residence later that night to the police Department....
Mayor Ferret You called that night, you say?
Mr. Patterson: That's correct.
Mr. Silver: That's May 7, 1974?
Mr. Patterson: That's correct.
Mayor Ferree Who did you call?
Mr. Patterson: Well, I went through about I would say 3 or 4 different channels
explaining my story and I was referred to the next channel on up the stairs.
Mr. Plummer: Who did you eventually speak to?
Mr. Patterson: I cannot recall the name at this time. It was a sergeant that I
talked to. I don't recall the name but I had written it down at the time.
Mr. Plummer: And what did you say to him?
Mr. Patterson: Well, I told him what I had seen and he gave me an option of
forming a complaint, an informal and a formal complaint. The formal in which
case I would have to come down and tell my testimony, I guess to a stenographer
and be witnessed, I guess. At this time I was not able to go down that night.
I gave an informal complaint telling what I had seen.
Mr. Plummer: Over the phone.
Mr. Patterson: Over the phone, that is correct.
Mr. Silver: Do you know if that was being recorded?
Mr. Patterson: I really don't have any idea.
Mayor Ferre: Well, what did he tell you after you finished your conversation?
Mr. Patterson: Well, he thanked me and he said that he would take it up within
the police force itself, whatever
Mayor Ferre: Did he ask you to come down and make a written statement?
Mr. Patterson: No, not at that time.
Rev. Gibson: Did he subsequently ask you?
Mr. Patterson: Well, I had called several times after that incident in regards
to the man's condition and I had gotten absolutely no where, you know with re-
gards to the man because I wanted to know
Rev. Gibson: Did you call once?
Mr. Patterson: I called several times but each
REv. Gibson: Twice, three times?
time....
Mr. Patterson: Well, I called about three days running and each time it seems
like I consequently spoke to somebody different each time. I don't know if it
was shift change or what.
Rev. Gibson: I understand. Good enough.
Mayor Ferre: Well now, in these subsequent conversations did they ever ask
you to cane down and make a statement?
Mr. Patter/AM: No, they wvere... At the time 1 had formulated a statement they
aaked me if 1 wculd lie to come down and see it and at the time 1 wet unable so
l had to settle with an infotmai statemnt and toil them what 1 had eat that day.
Mt. Pluse;ert Mr. Patterson, because of Father's concern and really My concern,
in the statement in which you gave to sergeant Veal last night does it contain
anything other than what you observed of the incident?
Mr. Patterson: In reference to the aftermath?
Mr. Plummer: The aftermath, does it contain that you called on three of four
different occasions?
Mr. Patterson: I don't believe it is in the testimony. Most of the testimony
was the incident itself and how it happened and what happened right then.
Mr. Plummer: Well alright, Mr. Mayor, I want to go on record once again that
that testimony which he gave to Sergeant Veal, I feel very uncomfortable with
that being brought out here today with the case still being open...
Mayor Ferret It is a public record.
Mr. Plummer: No, I don't think it is a public record yet....
Mayor Ferre: The moment, now I'm not an attorney you correct me; the moment a
proseceting attorney wants to get the records of the City of Miami Police Depart-
ment they can subpoena the records and they can use them. Is that correct?
Mr. Silver: The ruling of the attorney general, Mr. Chairman is that in internal
security investigations if it is relating to a crime that has been committed then
that is not public record. If it is relating to the performance of the depart-
ment or if it is relating to the internal affairs of the department that is a
public record.
Mayor Ferre: Well will this be a public record? Yes, or no.
Mr. Silver: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, then there is no reason why we can't discuss it here.
Alright. Go on, Mr. Patterson.
Mr. Patterson: May I say that last night after the statement tha' I gave to
Sergeant Veal he said that if you wanted to get ahold of the statement that
you would have ac.:ess to it.
Rev. Gibson: And if who wanted to get ahold to it?
Mr. Patterson: What is that?
Rev. Gibson: If who wanted to get hold?
Mr. Patterson: If Mr. Ferre wanted to
Rev. Gibson: I see.
Mayor Ferre: Well, it is public information.
Rev. Gibson: Oh yes.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Patterson, I hate to impose upon you but since that won't be
here for half an hour perhaps we can come back and discuss this with you further
when you read the statement into the record. Is there anything else that you
wish to add at this time.
Mr. Patterson: Well, it is just that the main thing that upset me was the con-
dition of the man, whether or not he would loose his eye. I did not find out
until yesterday that he did loose the sight of his eye.
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, I didn't hear that. Would you repeat that. I apologize.
Mr. Patterson: Well, the thing that really bugged me about the whole incident
was the personal injury to Mr. Dixon and I was more concerned to find out the
condition of him and if he had ever had his eye sight back.
NOV -61974
Mayes Perm! t !tee. Mow Mr, Patterson, in your discussion with am last night
and this is t c ething that your testimony will have tb show, but you indicated
that you could not identify the people that were involved in these Alleged or
somcalled beating, that there were two and that there was one policeman that was
Shorter than the other whb was the one with the night stick.
Mr. Pattersont That's correct, physical description. it has been 7 months now.
Mayor Ferre: Alright. i mean to bring that out because one of the things that
I understand Internal Security is stating is that they cannot pinpoint the people
who are involved and i just wanted to point out that here is one witness who can
distinguish at least to a minimum degree a difference between one policeman and
another. Now until we get your written statement then, if you would sit down and
then we're going to break for a while..
Mr. Silver: Mr. Chairman, could we, there is one witness that has to, that has
been here a very long time and has to leave and that is Miss Evelyn Greer.
Mayor Ferre: That is who I'ta going to call right now, Miss Evelyn Greer. And I
apologize Miss Greer, to you also for keeping you so long. Miss Greer, I would
like to give you, if I may, a statement that was signed by you and given to me by
your associate of Paul and Thomson dated October 31, if you would submit it into
the record whenever you think it is appropriate.
Mr. Silver: Mr. Clerk, would you please swear the witness in. Would you please
state your name and address.
Miss Evelyn Langley Greer,17045 S.W. 83 Court, duly sworn.
Mr. Silver: And are you employed, Miss Greer?
Miss Greer: Yes, I am.
Mr. Silver: And in what capacity?
Miss Greer: I am an attorney with Paul and Thomson. My name is Evelyn Langley
Greer. My address is 17045 S.W. 83 Court.
Mr. Silver: All right, Miss Greer, did you have occasion to observe an event on
Monday, October 21, 1974?
Miss Greer: Yes, I did.
Mr. Silver: And did this event involve the City of Miami Police Department
police officers?
Miss Greer: Yes, it did.
Mr. Silver: All right, did you issue a statement, have you typed up a statement
of some sort?
Miss Greer: Yes, I have.
Mr. Silver: Would you like to read that statement into the record.
Miss Greer: Yes, I would. Before I read the statement though, I will say that
Sergeant Veal has taken my statement as well over the telephone but I have not
yet received it.
Mr. Silver: We'll get the exact dates and the procedure on that but let's have
your statement first.
Rev. Gibson: Let me ask this, was that statement voluntary?
Miss Greer: Yes, it was.
Rev. Gibson: Did he solicit it or did you have to ... Ok, go ahead because
I'm going to ask the question any way.
Miss Greer: All right. On Monday, October 21, 1974 I left my office at the First
National Hank Building at approximately 5:4'3 and walked north to the Federal Drug
Store located at the corner of First Street and First Avenue. I arrived at the
3? NOV - 61974
drug &tore at 5e55 and entered the doorway of the store which is recessed
directly back from the corner of the building forming a quarter circle entrance
way. A largely black crowd was gathered at the cornet apparently waiting for a
bus. I did not find what I was looking for in the store and when I cage to the
doorway to leave I noticed two black couples standing in the entranceway of the
Store. A white policeman was also standing in the entranceway but he was closer
to the doorway of the store. One of the black teen who I later learned was Marvin
Kite were ih maroon colored shirts and was of medium height and build. The other
black man who I later learned was Norman Kite wore a blue denim outfit and was
slightly taller and bigger than the first man. According to his badge the police-
man was officer Wright, a member of the City of Miami Police Department. He was
over 6 feet tall and stodkily built. I' stook inside of the doorway of the store
and heard officer Wright tell the two men to move on to the sidewalk and clear
the entrance way. The men hesitated and they had said something to the off;.cer
and appeared to be somewhat hostile. The two men moved a little onto the E.de-
walk and the officer followed after them to the lower part of the entrance
onto the sidewalk. The officer asked them to move on again. They again hesitated
and said something to the affect of no, man, leave us alone. There was some conver-
sation between the officer and the two men and then the officer and Marvin Kite
began speaking to each other at the edge of the entrance way. Norman Kite was
standing behind and to the side of the officer and Marvin Kite. Officer Wright
then asked Marvin Kite if he wanted to be arrested. Marvin Kite said no. There
was some conversation between them to the affect that no, I don't want to be
arrested - you have no reason to arrest me. Officer Wright then took a pad from
his back pocket and appeared to be writing on it. At this time I left the door
way of the store and came onto the sidewalk. The predominently black crowd at
the corner had become increasingly interested in the incident, become tense and
focused some attention on the officer. The crowd, however, did not intervene
between the officer and the two men. I stood on the sidewalk approximately 5 to
8 feet behind and to the side of the officer and Marvin Kite who were standing
close to each other and talking. Marvin Kite was telling the officer that he
did not want to be arrested. Meanwhile Norman Kite was standing 8 to 10 feet
from the officer and Marvin Kite was shouting at them telling the officer to stop.
I do not recall what Norman Kite was saying since I was watching the officer and
Marvin Kite but Norman Kite was quite loud. As officer Wright and Marvin Kite
stood talking together the officer suddenly but slowly reached behind him and
withdrew a short black stick from a holder on his belt and hit Marvin Kite twice
directly over the head. Marvin Kite was stunned and the crowd was also. I was
shocked as well since I had not observed any physical contact between the officer
and Marvin Kite prior to this time. At this moment I observed a second officer
in the doorway of the store speaking into a radio -like box, I went over to him,
told him I was an attorney who had observed the incident that he should stop it
immediately. He tole me that he did not know what had happened, it was only
assisting another officer. I then returned to the sidewalk and observed Officer
Wright and another officer struggling with Marvin Kite against the wall of the
store. Marvin Kite was being handcuffed and was down on the ground but did not
appear to be struggling. A police officer driven by a woman officer then drove
up and a second police car arrived shortly thereafter. Officer Wright then
approached Norman Kite who had been shouting loudly through the interest and
grabbed him. Officer Wright turned him around, handcuffed him and pushed both
him and Norman Kite into the police car. As Norman Kite was being arrested a
black man approximately 50 to 60 years old standing at the edge of the crowd
began shouting at the officers and asking them what was going on. Officer
Wright told the man to move back but the man continued to shout. Officer Wright
then grabbed the man, threw him up against the police car, searched him and threw
him into the car with the two Kite men.
Mayor Ferre: Miss Greer, if you would, would you now answer Father Gibson's
question.
Rev. Gibson: When did you give that, when did you make your testimony avail-
able to the sergeant?
Miss Greer: When the police car had driven away and I was very agitated about
the incident and when I arrived at home I called the City of Miami information
number..
Mayor Ferrel Wait a minute because I want you to hear this. Ladies and gentlemen;
excuse me, Father. I want to make a statement now for the record. This is an in-
cident that just happened a few weeks ago. It is brand new. Now the reason I
asked for Mrs. Greer to show up here is I want, and I've read, I've got the file
on it and let me say that there are varying areas and there are different testimony
its this, And t'M certainly not going to act as a judge as to `ether Officer
aright wee Ot *Won't correct in what he did. That is not our purpose. The
reason why t asked her to appear here is because it is a recent incident (1)
Which I think establishes a pattern that we have continuing problems. Mut
most important, because I want her to tell you the process that ensued. You
see, what concarna me is how all of this is handled, what the relationship be-
tween a member of the community like Mrs. Greer and the Police Department.
This testimony that I asked her to read into the record just established the
incident. What I'm really concerned about from now, on this is what we want...
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I think we're together. I'm concerned, let me tell
you so you can relate to me. I'm concerned as to whether or not after you
reported the incident did anybody make any effort to get in touch with you.
Mrs. Greer: Yes.
Rev. Gibson: How soon thereafter?
Mrs. Greer: I will tell you the sequence so you can see what happened. When
I arrived at home I called the information number in the telephone book for the
City of Miami Police Department and I tried, I did not know the names of the men...
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, Miss Greer, how much time had passed by the time you
had gotten home? An hour, two hours?
Miss Greer: The incident concluded at 6:30, I arrived home at about 8:00 or
8:30, 8:00 O'Clock. I called the information number, I didn't know the names
of the men, what they had been charged with or where they had been taken. I
tried to locate them, I described the incident and I was over a period of three
and a half to four hours I was transferred from the City of Miami information
number to the City Jail, to the Metro Jail, back to the City of Miami information
number. No one had heard of the men, knew where they were, knew where they had
been found or had any idea who I could call to find them. At one point when I
got back to the information number I obtained a different officer than I had
spoken with the first time and he said oh yes, could their names have been Kite
and I said it possible, two men had
Mayor Ferre: What time was this?
Miss Greer: A qugrter to eleven and he said yes, they had juet been brought in
and he thought that I could find them at the City of Miami Jail. I called the
jail, and they did not know anything of the men and they had not been brought into
the jail. At that point I looked their names up in the phone book and called a
number that I thought would be their home address because they had been with two
women who I assum_d were their wives and maybe could reach them through them and
I spoke to their mother who said that she had gone to the jail and had been thrown
out of the jail and could obtain no information whatsoever about where the two
boys were. I called the jail back again and the person who answered the phone at
the jail who had been very nice the whole time said that he couldn't really help
me but it had been standard procedure with people who had been arrested by the
City of Miami that they would not be locatable for 4 to 6 hours from the time of
arrest and I would just have to wait until they were brought in somewhere and
they could be found at that point.
Rev. Gibson: A11 right, now, I want to get one other thing. Let me make sure
I understand. You were told that it would take 4 to 6 hours before a person
who was arrested, before it is possible to locate them. Is that right?
Miss Greer: That is correct.
Rev. Gibson: Ok, council, I want to make sure you speak to that later on, you
know. Ok. Stopping there, did anybody from the Police Department contact you?
Miss Greer: The next day I spoke to my employer who advised me that I should
call Janet Reno at the States Attorney's Department and report the incident to
her end also to call the internal review section at the City of Miami Police.
And I called both of those numbers and subsequently Sergeant Veal called me from
the Internal Review Section. Originally I spoke to Mr. Mc Laughlin and he said
fine, he would have someone call me and Sergeant Veal called me and subsequently
took my statement.
Mr. Silvers On what date was that, ma'am? Was that the next day or..?
Miss Greer: I originally called the next day and you say you called me on the
22nd?
35 NOV - 61974
Pegs abaft: ♦ dm ♦ NOW dOeht C1... 4
Mayer Perm: 1 Want to tell you the date was the 24th day of October, 1974 at
2:13 P,M.
Rev. Gibeont All right, I understand that. I want to raise this... You're an
Attorn y and 1 eodld ask you but I don't want to ask you. Let's see air, you
work for the City?
Mr. Silver: Yea, sir.
Rev. Gibson: All right, answer this for me. Is it regular that if a man is
arrested, I thought this new thing we're going through now is that you get, you
know you could use the telephone and you can get counsel a pronto before yon
answer anything. You mean to tell me with all of that as a procedural matter
we still are incommunicado for 4 to 5 hours, 6 hours? Is that what you're -t'11-
ing me? Is that a part of the law?
Mr. Silver: I'm not saying that at all.
Rev. Gibson: No, I want you to, you're an attorney. You see I'm a layman.
You answer that for me. Wait a minute, let me put it the other way. Do I have,
is it procedurally correct that as soon as I'm arrested that I may eit.ier seek.
counsel or that if any of kinfolk are trying to locate me that I am to be located
or they should be permitted to communicate with me immediately? That is what I
want to know.
Mr. Silver: Well sir, the only way that I can answer that is that when you are
arrested you're advised of your rights and then waht happens after that depends
upon the circumstances, logistics, everything else and it would be unfair for me
to base an opinion upon this particular case without knowing the exact factors.
Rev. Gibson: Well all right, I'll wait my time because I want the public to get
this time sequence. I'm disturbed. Wait a minute, Mr. Mayor. let me bring some-
thing else up. I'm disturbed about what happens to people from the time they're
arrested until they are made available to their kinfolk. I'm really worried about
that.
Mayor Ferre: Father, this is exactly why I asked Mrs. Greer to come here today.
And let me tell you where I'm heading so that everybody understands. Mr. Andrews,
I want you to hear this because I'm not going to tell you the way I hope we're
heading. There are two things that I want to talk about right now that I think
is a direction. We're not going to come to any conclusions but I just want to
make a statement now about direction. I think that it is absolutely essential
that we make it as a standing rule in the Miami Police Department that the mom-
ent a person is apprehended and arrested that that information be available
through a number that a relative or a concerned citizen can call and the answer
can be given immediately -"Yes, sir. M. Jones has been arrested. He is now
being processed. He is now in iternal security or he is now at the Metropolitan
Jail and he will be there, or he is in the hospital. We estimate he will be
there for an hour and a half and will be at the jail, you can talk to him in
three hours." So that we con't go through this 4 hours or 5 hours where nobody
knows where a person is. And I think it is essential that we go in that, so that
the citizen will know exactly what is going on. Now the other place that I'm
headed is this and I've stated this and I know there are many people who are
going to disagree with me very strongly. I am against a civilian review board
for the Police Department. I don't believe in it. I think it will cause more
problems and create more hassle and more division and it is going to go on ethnic
lines and that is not going to serve any purposes. But after the Internal
Review is finished and the performance is accomplished and is a matter of record
I think that those records must be available to the press and therefore to the
people through the press. And I think that eventually it happens anyway. The
problem is that many times there is an incident and the press has no information
on it and unless you have someone who really is anxious to ferret the information
out they loose interest in it because they cannot fine sufficient information.
And I think the way to solve all of this is that the moment Internal Review
process is finished that it is open to the press. Now that is just an idea of
mine.
Mr. Plummer: Mrs. Greer, may I ask you, other than the incidents that you have
related pertaining to the particular alleged • abuse and other than the phone
call which you were unable to determine where or who these' gentlemen were, is
there anything else that you wish to testify to which you think were irregularities
40
N O V - 61974
or thinga that you don ! t think Were erect?
Mayor Pefre: 'fell it like it is.
Mies Greer: Well, let me think.
Mrs. Gordon: While she is thinking, Mr. Mayor, may I ask you a question?
When did this case cow to your attention?
•
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Dan Paul, an associate of Mrs. Greer, Sunday at the Dolphin
game one week ago upon discussing the problems in the Police Department said
to me, "I have a case in my own office of an associate of mine who was very
concerned not by the incident but by the fact that for four hours she was unable
to find what had happened within the department." And then I asked Mr. Pau] if
he would ask Mrs. Greer to make a written statement and send it to me which is
what we have before us. I don't want to prejudice the case. I want to state
that I have read - this is the file on it at this point - that there are contra-
dictory statements in here. Mrs. Greer has one opinion, Officer Wright has a
separate opinion and that there are two additional witnesses that cast a lot of
doubts about whether or not Mr. Kite wa:;, whether there was an excess amount of
force used. Frankly, from what I can read in this I don't think that there was
but that is my personal opinion. I just happen to think that that man had to be
arrested and he was refusing to be arrested and he had to be subdued. Now there
is testimony in here, and I don't want to get involved in the detail of it where
I think that there is an indication that the man was not hit as hard as he could.
In other words they didn't hit him to crack his head open, they hit him twice to
be able to hand cuff him. Now there are different sides to all of this. I'm say-
ing that I don't know what the truth is. You were an eye witness and I was not.
But the point that I've asked you to come here today is because I wanted you to
make that statement which you've made which is that it took you four hours from
8 O'Clock until 11 O'Clock, I think is what you stated, before and the incident
happened at 6 O'Clock.
Mr. Plummer: Mrs. Greer, I ask you the question again, are there any other ir-
regularities that you wish to bring into your testimony at this time?
Ms. Greer: Other than those that I've mentioned there are none.
Mayor Ferre: Are there any other questions of Mrs. Greer at this time? Let
me for the record ask whether either Marvin Kite or Norman Kite are present
here today. They are not. Is Officer Edward Wright here? Officer Edward
Wright? I understand he was ill yesterday and today.
Mr. Silveri For the record, Mr. Mayor, subpoenas were not served on them al-
though we had them ready just so there is no misimplication.
Mayor Ferre: But I understand that you did ask Officer Wright to be here.
Mr. Silver: We found out that Officer Wright was ill yesterday and was not
available. I don't know what the final outcome is from our server as to
whether or not... I know as of last night he was not contacted.
Rev. Gibson: Well, let me ask this. Is he off today?
Mr. Silver: I'm still awaiting news on that, sir.
Rev. Gibson: Well, we shouldn't have to wait for that man. Hell, you can get
the telephone and find that out, Mr. Andrews. Isn't that true? Ok, so let's
say if he isn't off today, if he is ill, is he on sick leave?
Mr. Silver: He was on sick leave yesterday, sir.
Rev. Gibson: Uh huh. Let's make sure.... He's being paid while he is on sick
leave? You know, I'm trying... I just want to get it all out on the table, you
know so that if the guy is evading us I want to make sure that he isn't evading
us. That is important.
Mr. Plummer: Once again for the record, has this case been brought to court yet?
Mr. Silver: No. If I can clear it up for a second so there is no misapprehension,
Mr. Gibson, I don't want to give the impression that this officer was evading any-
thing..
41
Meyer rerrti Nobody is i dying that, I certainly at not.
lit. Si/Nett Ok, l didn't want that to be understood because we tried to locate
hie yeetard&y And he was off ill. 1 have trot received word this morning. I
know server ie out there. i haven't had a chance to speak to him because.....
Rev. Gibson: I'm not saying that but I'll tell you what I'm telling the public.
You know man, somebody has a work sheet. You know? I'm no fool now. Somebody
has a work sheet and I hope Mr. Andrews, for the sake of this Commission you'd
look at the work sheet.
Mayor Ferret Ladies and gentlemen, I repeat the purpose of bringing ttis matter
out is not to try the merit of right or wrong of what happened in that incident.
I had to establish that the incident happened. That is why I asked Mrs. Grier to
read that testimony into the record. My purpose in all of this was to brie, out
the lag in time between the incident and the time the information was availaole.
That is all. That is my only purpose.
Ms. Greer: if I may, I will state for the benefit of the Commission that I have
no point of view in this other than as a witness to this incident and have been
subpoened to be here today.
Mayor Ferre: All right, thank you. Would you hand that statement to the clerk
for the record. Thank you very much, Mrs. Greer. Now ladies and gentlemen, we're
going to take a half an hour break and I want to say that the next witness will
be Mr. Charles C. Samen and then after that, Mr. Bruce Hammersley.
NOTE: Thereupon the City Commission recessed from 12:45 until 1:30 P.M.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Patterson's statement, and what I think we're going to do is;
Mr. Patterson, if you'll step forward, please.
Mr. Plummer: I will ask for the record, is this an open and pending case?
Mr. Silver: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: I will object, Mr. Mayor, that I don't think any testimony that
is an open and pending case should be g..ven. I think Mr. Patterson should testi-
fy before this body any incidents relating to after the fact and any irregulat-
ities he thinks that took place.
Mayor Ferre: Both of these attorneys have told me that at this point we should
not read this into the record because what we are really interested in is the
procedure that happens after the incident rather than the incident itself.
Mr. Plummer: Well, any irregularities pertaining to procedure.
Rev. Gibson: Is this what, counsel, is this what Mr. Patterson is going to give
to you and Mr. Gerstein and all the rest of them?
Mr. Silver: Well, sir, what I have been handed here is a statement which was
taken of Mr. Patterson that relates to the facts of the particular case.
Rev. Gibson: You signed that, Mr. Patterson?
Mr. Silver: Mr. Patterson has not seen it yet.
Mr. Patterson: I haven't seen the statement
Rev. Gibson: Oh, let him see it.
Mr. Silver: Well, that is what I was going to do with the copy that I gave to
Mr. Plumper.
Mr. Plummer: Why don't you take two more minutes and go run it.
Rev. Gibson: We'll wait, Xerox it.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, in the meantime then, Mr. Patterson, if you'd sit down
let's move ahead and then after you've Xeroxed and you've read them then we'll
take it up again. In the meantime the next person I'm going to ask to testify
is Mr. Bruce Hammersley. Professor Hammersley, are you here? Is professor
Hammersley here?
it
42
NOV •G19-i.4
Mt. SilVets Mr. Clerk, Mould you adminisster the oath, please.
Mayor Ferre: Oh 1'S ot y, tiMr. Hamtersley, I apologise to you. i got you Wrong
with Charles Vereohour. Will you excuse Me/ We'll take you up. Professor
Charles Verechout is who i Meant. I'M sorry,.
Mt. Silver: Mr. Clerk, will you administer the oath, please.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, now ladies and gentlemen, there are some of us who have
unavoidable engatements that have been made previous to this time at 6:00 and
6:00. So we will try to break up around 5:00. And if we have to continue we'll
continue at some other time but I want to announce it early enough so that when
9:00 O'Clock comes around everybody doesn't get upset. Ok, Professor, go ahead.
Mr. Silver: Sir, will you please state your name and address for the recoil.
Mr. Verschoor: My name is Charles Verschoor, 7300 S.W. 128 Avenue.
Mr. Silver: Alright, sir, are you employed?
Mr. Verschoor: Yes, I am.
Mr. Silver: And by whom?
Mr. Verschoor: Miami Dade Community College.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Verschoor, before you start and for the questions asked, for
the record and for the satisfaction of the Law Department and Mr. Plummer, this
is a case that happened in 1972. I want to clarify that this has followed judic-
ial procedure. Mr. Verschoor, are you suing the City of Miami?
Mr. Verschoor: No, I am not.
Mayor Ferre: Have you sued the City of Miami?
Mr. Verschoor: I have not.
Mayor Ferre: Do you have any intentions of suing the City of Mizell.?
Mr. Verschoor: No, I've been through too much, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, I just want to clarify that this is a case that is at....
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I appreciate your trying to cover Plummer but let me
do it in a different manner, sir. The incident which you're going to relate, is
it an open and pending case before any court?
Mr. Verschoor: No, it is not.
Mr. Plummer: Thank you, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, then proceed.
Rev. Gibson: J.L., so as to save God, you don't propose in the forseeable
future to knowingly sue the City of Miami, do you?
Mr. Verschoor: At the present time I have no intention of this, sir.
Rev. Gibson: Alright, what about a future date.
Mr. Verschoor: I don't know what I'm going to think in the future but all I
can say is at the present time I'm not
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Lloyd, what about the statute of limitations? You see if
the statute of limitations run out, we're in business. It won't make any dif-
ference.
Mr. Lloyd: On what date this occur in 1972?
Mr. Verschoor: July 26th.
Mr. Lloyd: All right, the criminal statute of limitations is run and the statute
of limitations as to one year against the City of Miami has already run.
NOV - S 1974
eat Sit,
All right, bit.
ret A11 right, you go ahead.
iivert Sir, did you have occasion to becoMe involved
ity Of Miami Police Department?
erschoor t Year I Wall.
Vera What date was that, sir?
choor: That was Wednesday, July 26, 1972.
fiver: All right, sir, could you tell us at what
it occured?
,Verachoor: The original incident, I didn't know it
use, started occuring around 11:00 O'Clock that night.
Rttas teaching a late night class and I had left that c
i0:30 at night.
Mr. Silvers Where were you teaching, sir?
Mr. Verachoor:
I was teaching at the college.
Mr. Silver: Downtown Miami?
in an incident with
time and what place this
was an incident at the
Now what was happening,
lass. My class ends around
Mr. Verachoor: No, I was teaching out at South campus. At the time I was going
with a woman and she was working late and I had to pick her up later on that
night. It was the end of the term and so I was just going out to Miami Beach
and I've got a little four cylinder sports car convertible. I had the top down.
I was just going out there to just relax. I was the only person on the causeway..
Mr. Silver: Which causeway, sir?
Mr. Verachoor: Mac Arthur Causeway.
Mr. Silver: Going which direction, towards Miami Beach?
Mr. Verschoor: Towards Miami Beach, I guess that would be east. Right before I
entered Miami Beach, I don't remember the exact location, a car pulled up behind
me, started flashing his lights, this sort of thing. As far as I remember there
were no other cars.
Mayor Ferre: Was this a police car?
Mr. Verschoor: I could not tell at the time. I found out later that it was a
police car.
Mayor Ferre: But was it a marked police car?
Mr. Verachoor: No, it was not a marked police car.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir, what happened after you noticed that?
Mr. Verachoor: Ok, the fellow could have gone by me if he would have wanted
to, this sort of thing. I have had trouble in the past because I do work at
nights and if you've ever been out...
Mr. Silver: Just relate to this incident.
Mr. Verachoor: Basically, what happened was
Mayor Ferre: Why don't we just let him tell his story and then we can ask him
questions.
Mr. Verachoor: All right, all of a sudden I noticed that this fellow was com-
ing up real close to me flashing his lights, this sort of thing and I got scared
because I have been run off the road two or three times in the past at night.
44
NOV - 1974
With a convertible, for some reason you seem very vulnerable: So I tried to
get to Mali beach, you know, just try to ;et back to civilization so I took
a right turn there toward the dog track. The car came after me. I still had
no idea it was a police car. He kept flashing his lights. I got scared. I
just wanted to get out of there because I have had some previous incidents of
this nature. I took a left turn, he took a left turn and at that time I noticed
that his car was really swerving all over the place. i didn't know who he was
or what he wanted but r knew he wanted me badly. There was no indication what-
soever at the time that was a police vehicle. There was no siren going, no
blue lights, nothing. So 1 drove around in that area of Miami Beach around the
police station there and he fell behind me. All right, and I said God, what is
going on. I saw blue lights flashing off the building and I said they've got
him. I really thought that the police, City of Miami or somebody had picked
up this fellow, whoever he was. I started heading back home and that is when
the real problem started. I took a right turn heading back to that major
intersection of Alton and Fifth and Mac Arthur Causeway and I was about maybe
a third of a block from that intersection where I took the right turn. As soon
as I came around the turn I saw two police cars there in the intersection. These
were marked cars. A11 right, all of a sudden I heard a gun go off and I said
"What the hell is going on?" and then I realized they were shooting at me for
some reason they are trying to kill me. And if you've ever had anybody to try
to kill you and you don't have a gun, you've got no recourse, you don't know
why, you wonder what the dickens is going on, you know your normal reaction is
I want to stay alive. All right, I just tried to get out of there with my skin.
I wasn't going to stop and ask any questions. I kept going on the the causeway
heading back to Miami Beach and after a few seconds I got past the scene and I
just pulled over and I waited. All right, a police car pulled to the left of
me. I had pulled off the causeway off the richt side, I turned off my ignition
and waited for them. A police car pulled behind me, in front of me and the one
that pulled beside me, one of the officers, I don't remember who he was; later
testimony gave me his name, put a gun out the window. I was just sitting there
waiting for them and said, "Hands up, you," and the initials are M. F., expletive
deleted, I guess. All right, I put my hands up. There was a car in front of me,
a car behind me, a car beside me and by then the whole air was full of blue flash-
ing lights. i was not about to give anybody a hard time. I just wanted to know
hey, what is going on here. I came out of the car with my hands up like this.
The car is about this far off the ground, it is just a little four cylinder sports
car...
Rev. Gibson: How far off what?
Verschoor: This far off the ground.
mayor Ferrc: What kind of a car is it?
Mr. Verschoor: It is a littler TR 4.
Mrs. Gordon: Excuse me, where were you at the time, what location? Are you
talking about being in the jurisdiction of Miaxai Beach?
Mr. Verschoor: When I finally stopped it was close to Star Island when I
pulled over and waited.
Mrs. Gordon: Then you're really talking about Miami Beach and Miami Beach
Police, aren't you?
Mayor Ferre: No, ma'am. This is the point, that the police involved were,
some of them were Miami policemen and he'll explain that.
Mr. Verschoor: Right, the initial incident
Mrs. Gordon: The marked cars were Miami Beach or Miami?
Mr. Verschoor: The first two, as I recall, were Miami. The one behind me
was City of Miami, the one that initially started the event.
Mrs. Gordon: And they apprehended you in the jurisdiction of Miami Beach?
Mr. Verschoor: Wherever Star Island is is where I pulled over and waited.
Ok, I came out of my car with my hands up and they grabbed me and they turned
me around and they put me on the hood and one grabbed my right arm, one grabbed
my left arm, the put the hand cuffs on then a whole bunch of them were around
me. I couldn't identify them because one picked up one arm like this, one the
4a NOV -61974
other. Met lifted Me up off the ground. Then, t just started feeling hits
all mitt he. f got hit in the ribs, t got hit in the back, got hit in the facer
got hit in the head. 80mebody started :pounding on my head and it dented; I've
gttt Witness to this, pushed the hood of My car down so fat that parts of the
engine actually penetrated the hood of my car. This is all documented. Then
they slid me off the hood of the car, put my face in the gravel and somebody,
you can't identify them because they make sure your back is turned, took my
face and went in the gravel. My whole face was bleeding and scratched up.
Then they kept kicking me and kneeing fire and this sort of thing and then i
passed out. They picked me up, threw me in the back seat of the police car
then one of them, who once again I can't identify, came behind me and said,
used some very profane language, took his knee, put it in my ear and just ground
away, put all of his weight on the ear. Supposedly, he was looking for identi-
fication.
Mayor Ferret Were you handcuffed at this time?
Mr. Verschoor: I was handcuffed the whole time. I never offered any resistance
whatsoever. There were 15 policemen, I don't know how many guns and I had noth-
ing and I was trying to figure out what is going on. It all happened very very
quickly. All right, while I was lying in the police car some of them were
spitting on me. Once again, I couldn't identify them. They were just spitting
on me, the spit was landing on my face, on my arms, all over me. I was just ly-
ing there half unconscious and they were cursing and then I passed out. And
then they took me off to jail, they threw me in jail. Since I was so battered
I had to be charged with resisting arrest with violence. That is the standard
cover-up procedure. If you beat up a man whether it is his fault or not you
have to charge him with resisting arrest with violence. I was in and out of
court from July 26th until May of the following year. All my money was used
hiring lawyers and I finally, we were going to trial, I just didn't have the
money to keep it. I just wanted to get on with my life's work.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Verschoor, I'm probably going to askyou to be repetitious but
I think there are some things that I don't understand. You work at the downtown
campus....
Mr. Verschoor: No, I work at South Campus
Mrs. Gordon: South Campus. Ok, and you live where?
Mr. Verschoor: At the time I lived in Coconut Grove.
Mrs. Gordon: And all of this started at what point?
Mr. Verschoor: It started on the Mac Arthur Causeway right before Miami Beach.
Mrs. Gordon: You said you were going home?
Mr. Verschoor: No, my girl friend at the time was working late. She was a
waitress and I had to pick her up.
Mrs. Gordon: ON Miami Beach and that's why you were going to Miami Reach.
Mr. Verschoor: No. Well, I was just going over there. I had around a half an
hour or so before she got off work. I was going out to the beach just to walk
around.
Mrs. Gordon: Can you tell me what time of night this was?
Mr. Verschoor: Yes, the police report says around 11:00, 11:15 at night. My
class ended around 10:30 or so.
Mrs. Gordon: ANd when you were first being apprehended or first being noticed
by the police were you going fast or were you attracting attention by any of
your actions?
Mr. Verschoor: Ok, I found out later, and this was through cross examination
in court that the officer in question at that night was on burglary detail, had
an unmarked car with no flashing lights, no siren, nothing, just a white plymouth
satellite. But he was working burglary detail. He was not working traffic de-
tail'and that he saw me, he claims, going around the ramp to Miami Beach too fast
and so he just made a U-turn or sonnathing and decided he was going to arrest me
for speeding.
46
NOV 'Ci7
r
Mr 1 Gorden: Tha$' i1 Mhat attracted hull to yeit. 1 ,juat vented to find out
What happened.
Mt. Ver c hoor: Originally it was speeding. There was no warrant out,, they
Were not looking foie a little sbite sports car.
Mrs. Gordon: Can I go further with this so i understand the whole thing?
YOu vent across the causeway, you went onto Miami Beach, you circled around
in the South Beach Area and you decided to came back to Miami.
Mr. Verschoor: Yes, my feeling was - they have the guy. I saw the blue lights
off in the distance and I said they've got the guy, whoever he was. it wasn't
until several days later that I found out that this white car was in fact a
policeman.
Mrs. Gordon: The car that was following you across the causeway originally .'ith
flashing lights....
Mr. Verschoor: It was flashing its headlights. He was not flashing a blue
light. There were no blue lights or siren on the car.
Mrs. Gordon: Oh, he was flashing his headlights at you.
Mr. Verschoor: It was just like if you went up behind somebody and flashed
your lights, see, and this was brought out later
Rev. Gibson: May I ask this question, and I trust this wouldn't embarrass you.
Did they think you were drunk?
Mr. Versehoor: He thought I was speeding. I was not charged with driving
under the influence. If I had been intoxicated I'm sure they would have charged
me with this. They charged me with about everything else.
Rev. Gibson: Well, I want to make sure.
Mr. Verschoor: I know, reverend.
Rev. Gibson: Ok, I serve wine so don't feel bad.
Mr. Verschoor: Once in a while I drink it.
Mrs. Gordon: Can I ask you a couple more clarification questions? On your
way back to Miami from Miami Beach, two marked cars flashed their top lights
apparently..
Mr. Verschoor: I don't remember if the liIhts were on. I remember recognizing
them as City of Miami Police cars or white police cars...
Mrs. Gordon: But they came into view
Mr. Verschoor: No, they were in front of me just as I turned the corner and as
I turned the corner somebody started shooting at me.
Mrs. Gordon: Corner of what?
Mr. Verschoor: There is a little intersection, I took a right turn, I don't
remember what the name of the street
Mrs. Gordon: I'm sorry if I have to inquire because I don't think we have to
have a slanted or we can't ask questions because then we don't understand what
is happening.
Mayor Ferret Nobody is stopping you.
Mrs. Gordon: If this is a Miami Beach incident, if these are Miami Beahc police-
men I think we have to determine that and if you said you made a turn somewhere
short of the Miami Beach side you were on Miami Beach jurisdiction. Where did
the Miami cops come to Miami to stop you who they didn't know.... don't make
sense.
Mr. Verschoor: Ok, they originally, I got their attention originally in the City
of Miami when I entered the entrance ramp going on the Mac Arthur Causeway.
47
Mayor Petre: OMNI he for interrupting you. The tecotd, anti, I've read the
file, indicatethat Mere was the inVeiveMent of several City of Miami police,
Men. That is all Very Clear. It is not nebulous.
Mrs. Gorden Will *s rice, you have the advantage of having been inquiring into
there file attid I didn't know anything about this case.
Mayor Ferret I think your questions are very gout and very valid. I'm just
trying to clarify there were Miami policemen involved in the incident. Now the
point that I wanted to ask you was you said you were shot at. How do you know
that?
Mr. Verschoor: I had the top of the car down and I heard the explosion.
Mayor Ferre: Was there any phybical evidence of it in your car?
Mr. Verschoor: There is still a bullet hole in my car. I still have that c>.r.
Mayor Ferre: In other words they weren't shooting up straight.
Mr. Verschoor: No, the officer's testimony in court later on indicated he was
trying to kill me. That is on the record. I have copies of that.
Mayor Ferre: I might say for the benefit of the Commission and for the record
that this is the individual that was involved. The testimony of the officers
indicate that he did resist arrest and there was an allegation which was thrown
out of court that he got out of the car and kicked a Miami Police officer in
the stomach. That is how the whole incident began. I mean you know, just for
the
Mrs. Gordon: Maurice, the location of whatever took place is still not a clear
point.
Mayor Ferre: Miami Beach, Star Island was the final point where the Miami Beach
Police officers in marked cars and the City of Miami Police officers in unmarked
and as I understand, marked cars. were on the scene.
Mrs. Gordon: Then there was a combination of Miami Beach and Miami Police. Is
that correct?
Mr. Verschoor: Yes, ma'am, in the final incident.
Mrs. Gordon: Now we're getting the story straight. Ok. And how many were
Miami Police and how many were Miami Beach Police and were they brought into
the trial or were they not or just who did what to whom and when, who shot and
who didn't?
Mr. Verschoor: Ok, I was shot at by City of Miami Beach officer. The original
officers that tried to stop me with the unmarked car were City of Miami. They
radiod ahead on ce they got on Miami Beach, it was my understanding.
Mrs. Gordon: Well Maurice, I wonder are we also trying the Miami Beach Police?
Mayor Ferre: No, ma'am. But if you want the specifics I'll give you the names
of the officers that were completely involved in the case.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, may I inquire? W. Verschoor, was this matter tried in
court?
Mr. Verschoor: Yes, it was.
Mr. Plummer: Were you found guilty or not guilty?
Mr. Verschoor: The eventual outcome of this was a plea bargain.
Mr. Plummer: All right, sir. Did you report this at any time to Internal
Security at the City of Miami Police Department?
Mr. Verschoor: No, sir, I did not.
Mr. Plummer: Why did you not?
Mr. Verschoor: Why did I not? Ok, first of all the case was still pending.
Secondly I was in and out of court at least 15 times. Thirdly, I was going to
46 NOV -61974
echool full time and teething full time. It vas just such, 1 was under so
tanc?t eletlanai Stress at the time I juet....
Mt. Plummer: Mr. Verschoor, did you at any time complain to anyone, sir about
this incident?
Mr. Verschoort Yes, I went to several lawyers, all of who said
Mr. Plummer: No, I'm sorry, did anyone in authority, sir. Did you complain to
the States Attorney, the FBI? Now you've already stated that you didn't complain
to the City of Miami. Ze there anyone in authority that you omplained to?
Mr. Verschoor: No, sir, I didn't.
Mayor Ferre: All right, now Mr. Plummer, the point that I asked Mr. Versch or
to come hre on is becaus I really do not think it is the roll necessarily of the
citizen to launch an investigation internally in the department. The point that
I've asked him to testify, and I'm not saying that his story is true or not true
because I don't know. I'm certainly not going to stay here, stand here and judge
your case. The point that I'm trying to establish is that they allegations in-
volved in this which obviously must have been a part of the police report are
serious enough where I think that this matter should have been thoroug'-.ly invest-
igated by the Police Department. That is my only point.
Mrs. Gordon: My point, Maurice, is that I can't understand how we can sit here
in judgement on his face being rubbed in the gravel by Miami Beach Police because
the only Miami Police that you've mentioned or said that was present was a man
in an unmarked car who flashed his lights and you didn't determine or you weren't
able to tell me at least satisfactorily that you know that it was Miami Police
that were abusing you.
Mayor Ferre: Have you got your file there where you
Mr. Verschoor: I can get the file. It is available. All o. this is documented,
the doctor's care and in addition to this the fellow
Mrs. Gordon: I agree that you were hurt, not probably but that's not the point.
Mayor Ferret The point is were there City of Miami Police involved in this?
Mr. Verschoor: Yes, there were. That is public record.
Mayor Ferre: And there is testimony taken by City of Miami... As a matter of
fact, one of the policemen broke his hand, one of the Miami Policemen broke his
hand and you see the main problem was between that police officer and this gentle-
man. In other words, if you look at the court case it is the Miami Police officers
are very much involved in the process.
Mrs. Gordon: Can I ask you a question please, Mr. Mayor. How did you hear of
this case?
Mayor Ferre: This case was brought to my attention by Mr. Ron Sax this week.
Rev. Gibson: You're telling me that the policeman broke his arm? I mean is
that what the record shows?
Mr. Verschoor: The record shows that he was injured during that....
Rev. Gibson: All right, so he was injured. Let me ask, how many policemen
you said there was?
Mr. Verschoor: There were at least 3 police cars that I saw then I saw a lot of
blue lights then they turned me around. It seemed like 5, 10 voices.
Rev. Gibson: What I'm trying to establish in my mind, here is one man, O-N-E,
no gun, no night stick and you mean to tell me the fact that the City of Miami
Beach policemen got involved along with our policemen -let's assume there were 3
policemen, 4 policemen. You mean to tell me it takes more than 3 or 4 policemen
to subdue one (1) citizen who apparently has no gun, no night stick? Is this
what I'm hearing?
Mr. Verschoor: That's what you're hearing, sir. They searched the car, they
ripped my trunk open, they smashed my instruments
49 NOV -6197
Rev. Gibson: What kind of in trurnenta?
Mt. Verscheer: In the car, the guagea, everything. The whole car was almost
totally destrayed after t stopped.
MOW. Gibson: Ok, let me aka question. This may not be the thing to do. Mr.
Mayor, oan we ask whoever is... Mr. City Manager, that's who I could iak. took,
M. tanager, have you heard about this before?
Mt. Andrews: Not to this extent. No, I have not.
Rev. Gibson: But you've heard about the case.
Mr. Andrews: I can't honestly say that I had.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Manager, maybe what the public doesn't understand and why': I
didn't understand and now what I'm beginning to understand is the Mayor is try-
ing to say that if these things are happening somebody should have been looking
over the shoulder of somebody. Is that what you're trying t' tell us, Mr. Mayor?
Mr. Managers I may be wrong but you never asked about this ca;e?
Mr. Andrews: I wasn't really aware that this took place to my knowledge.
Mayor Ferret TO be as fair as we can on this thing, Paul Andrews was not manager
at the time of the incident. This was in 1972.
Rev. Gibson: Sorry, I take it back.
Mayor Ferre: And I might point out, again, I'm not trying to establish here the
copability of any officer or anything like that. I think all I wanted to do is
have this man tell his side of the story. Now, I think what I'm interested in,
wbat this Commission is interested in as I understand it is what was done by the
Miami Police Department to investigate the voracity of obviously pretty exaggerated
statements. Whether they are true or not is not what we're going to determine
here. Because you know the testimony shows another side to it. Now the point is
that how is that handled? The only reason I'm bringing this out is because I
would like to follow the process like in the Dixon and in the Cook Case of how
is this handled internally.
Rev. Gibson: That was my position, that is what I was trying to get at, Mr.
Mayor. I wanted to know if our policemen were in court, and Mr. Lloyd, I want
you to hear this because you know every week we have a commission meeting, we
vote to pay John Doe X number of dollars for settlement. Do you understand?
Right. And I want to know how thorough are we. I didn't want to know before
because I wasn't. . But now that it is before us I would like to know how
thorough are we in our investigation and following up these matters if a City of
Miami policeman went to court on a matter like this it seems to me that it is
encumbent upon the City to do the kind of a thing that lawyer spoke about, what
was his name that represented an insurance company -Right. This is what I'm
worried about. Would you answer that for me, Mr. Lloyd, since you are an attor-
ney and you usually have to defend us, you know.
Mr. Lloyd: Now, you must understand the procedure which we go through in my
office. We get usually what is known as a notice of claim either from the indi-
vidual or his attorney. Now, of course, we turn these immediatly over to the
insurance company. That is when Mr. Knight and the Appalachian Insurance Com-
pany get it. But before that time when we handled them and of course now those
claims that you get are the residue of cases which we are handling in the City
Attorney's Office. When we get a notice of a claim we do two things. First,
we get an internal Security Report on the incident and the complete report, if
one exists. Then we make our own independent investigation which is supplemental
to that. Then, under the Charter I am charged with the responsibility of bring-
ing to this Commission a recommendation either that we defend the case or that
we settle the case. Now you will recall that on numerous occasions there will
be a number of cases coning in with a list in which we recommend that we defend
them.
Rev. Gibson: Ok, Mr. Lloyd, not to cut you off, but you see I don't want you to
get me off the track. I want to get back on the track. Listen to this: If
the Miami Police is involved - a policeman - somebody ought to, I as a layman
this is the way I would reason, ought to immediately, now whether that is your
responsibility or Mr. Andrews, whether that is your responsibility or whether
that is the Chief's responsibility, I don't know and don't care. I'm saying that
since I'm the Commissioner and eventually I've got to vote, It seems to me that
5u
NOV -61974
sorbndy should a pronto investigate for the safety and protection of the City of
Mai to find out to what extent. And what I think I'm hearing is that is not
being done.
Mr. Lloyd: Now what I'm talking about; now I'm reading you loud and clear. I
think this. You gee, the Law Department would not get the case until a notice
of claim is filed with ue what you have to go to is when the officer involved,
if farce is used he files a use of force report. Now that, of course, is an
internal matter within the Police Department.
Mayor Ferre: That is the whole point. You see this is not a question of the Law
Department because the Law Department only gets involved when there is a lawsuit.
The point that all of this is all about are the procedures internally in the
Police Department. Are they being followed? Are they clear? Are they equal?
Do they always, are they followed the same in every single case? Is there n
investigation? How thorough is the investigation? How conclusive is that investi-
gation? That is what I'm after today, not the fact that there is an alleged beat-
ing. There isn't a single Police Department in the United States that doesn't
have litterally dozens or hundreds of cases of beatings. Now as bad as that may
be that is not the thrust of what I think we're trying to get to. What we're
trying to get to is the just application df rules and regulations within the
department, the internal procedure and the discipline because I think that all of
these things, as I said in my original sti.tement that mcrale and discipline are
interrelated, that unless you have proper'discipline that is justly followed
that affects morale that's got to eventually permeate throughout the department
and affect performance. That's all.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I think the point that is being overlooked, this gentle-
man through the channels that he chose to take, Mr. Sax to you, and the same story
was related to me by Mr. Sax, had he not done this we, the Commission would never
have been aware.
Mayor Ferre: That's the whole point, J.L.
Mr. Plummer: I'm only questioning this point - I know there is a rule today
within the Police Department that anytime an officer fires his gun automatically
from the station Internal Security is sent to the scene. Now if Internal Security
was not made aware of this man's incident how can they investigate it?
Mayor Ferre: I don't know that it was or it wasn't. I have not had the time to
follow this.
Mr. Plummier: He admits that he didn't go there to complain, he didn't go to
any other authority and he has his reasons.
Mayor Ferre: But the point is that isn't that the responsibility of the Police
Department? Because there are individuals who for fear or for not wanting to
get involved in the long process, or for whatever reason that may be, do not
go and volunteer this information. Shouldn't that be something that is forth
coming from the department itself. I mean my God, if there were two or three or
four policemen shouldn't they report the incident?
Mr. Plummer: Let me ask one more question. I might have to ask this through
the chair. Major Mc Laughlin, as a matter of record, just a simple yes or no,
are all use of force reports reviewed by your section? Thank you.
Rev. Gibson: Let me ask, let me persue this a little this way. Let's forget
that the gun was fired if we can. What I'm concerned about is and J.L., this to
me gets to be very important. Mr. Andrews, whether it was you or Mr. Reese what
I'm now trying to establish is where do we go from here? Now that's why I wanted
that team. Co you understand? Ok. Here's what I'm saying: Here we are with
policeman or some policemen going to court. Now let's forget that we don't know
which came first, the chicken or the eggs but we know that there had to be some
chicken and there had to be some eggs. Isn't that right? That's what it will
mean, the fact that he had to go to court. Our policemen were involved. Now
whether somebody reported or somebody told us why isn't ther some measure, security
measure taken that automatically the Police Department ought to investigate these
matters so as to keep us from being sued. Of, if we are sued the facts ought to
be brought out and we should know. Do you understand what I'm saying, Mr.
Andrews? I didn't hear you.
Mr. Andrews: I understand what you're saying. I can't tell you all of the com-
plications that are involved in what is really involved at this stage in doing
5.t
NOV -61974
that which you're attempting to achieve. t understand what you're saying
cleat ly.
Rev. Gibson: Let me put it the other way. So as to protect the policemen
individually and to protect the City collectively, do you mean to tell me a
Man eras arrested, shot at, the policeman has hauled him to court the police -
Man at a given point represents us, the City. That we with our agency., the
Police Department does not investigate on its own to see whether the policeman
was lying or to see whether or not the citizen is lying? I want an answer.
Mr. Andrews: I don't know. I don't know to what extent the investigation...
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Andrews, let me put it this way. When we meet tomorrow
even out of context since you haven't had a chance to research, won't you please
tell Theodore, that's this guy; now you don't have to tell the others becat3e
maybe they know. But I don't know and I want it in the record because I can't
understand if an allegation is made that a policeman has wronged a citizen that
we don't have the necessary tools to follow up, ascertain. Plus it goes to an-
other thing. Those four hours we were talking about, and let me go another
step; and plus that story that we heard earlier - these are correlated. They
have some bearing.
Mr. Andrews: I was relating this gentleman's incident by itself not when some-
one complains that there has been some wrong doing - that is followed up. But
in this case I thought what you were asking when something does go wrong in the
presence of other officers is there a way that the City of Miami Police Depart-
ment should operate in which it makes its own inquiry and its own investigation.
And that I can't answer you at this stage.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Andrews, this is not to tell you how to run the City because
that is why we pay you. But you know man, I run a church and any example you
could name you could find in the church. If I had a man repairing the organ
and he swore that the rats were eating up all the stops in that pipe organ I
would have to do something about it and what I'll do is I'll make an investigat-
ion because I have to go to the vestry and ask the vestry for some money to put
those stops back. And they're little round things with a very thin, the kind of
thing on top of it, you know, one of those things. What I'm saying is I don't
understand how if this is the way it is done, how a policeman is involved in a
case and that the City, meaning the Police Department or ycu or whoever, does
not make its own investigation to try to determine for its own self how involved
that policeman was or is.
Mr. Andrews: I understand what you're saring.
Rev. Gibson: You're going to answer me tomorrow.
Mr. Andrews: Yes. It doesn't mean that we don't do this. It is just that
I'm not knowledgeable of the procedure.
Rev. Gibson: Please find out and answer me tomorrow because this is a part
apparently if it isn't done, this is a part of our problem.
Mrs. Gordon: The shot that was fired, is there any record that reflects that
City of Miami policemen fired the shot?
Mr. Verschoor: Yes, there is court testimony.
Rev. Gibson: What was that?
Mr. Verschoor: Court testimony, and is a written record.
Mayor Ferre: All right, now Mr. Manager, unless there are any other questions
I think the thing now for you to do please, is for you to make an investigation
of this whole matter and then come back at a future date and let's discuss this.
What I'm interested in again I repeat is the procedures followed internally to
investigate this whole matter and get to the final basis. Are there any other
questions? If not, thank you very much. Now ladies and gentlemen, we have now
got to decide what to do with the case of Mr. Patterson's statement. What is
the will of this Commission?
Mr. Plummer: Speaking for one, I will object to it being put into the record
because at present time it is,a pending case. I think Mr. Patterson would be
doing this Commission a service if he has any knowledge as to any irregularities
•
NOV -61974
that be fees for plaei or did not take place after the incident.
don't believe that teetiany should be put into the record.
Mayor Ferret All right, let me ask this question of the taw Department. Mt.
Andrei, t test! Mr. Lloyd, if I were an attorney in this case could 1 subpoena
this testimony?
Mr. tloydt Yes.
Hutt
Mayor Ferret If this testimony could be subpoenaed and introduced into the
record at the court then what is the difference whether we do it now?
Mr. Lloyd: Let me explain to you the situation. What you are running into is
that in the event there may be criminal action comtemplated as a result of this
investigation, by virtue of the fact that the results of this investigation are
prematurely made public here it could prejudice a resultant criminal trial against
the possible defendant.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, with that explanation I would be perfectly willing not
to make this a part of the record and then don't deal with it. I think Mr.
Patterson has made the point, man. Patterson and those other two people or
three people; and you know those stories don't vary but a hair. Some may have
used this and the othersthere and some was and some were. Now that is the only
difference. I think we could rest this case and don't do no more, if our
attorneys think this is going to prejudice the case.
Mayor Ferre: Well, that has been made in the statement now. Are there any
objections to that? If not, Mr. Patterson, is there anything else that you
want to add? There is nothing you want to add other than outside this state-
ment.
Mr. Plummer: Well, I just want to get one thing on the record, Mr. Patterson, if you
will.
Mayor Ferre; Mr. Patterson, why don't you stand up and come up to the:..
You're still under oath.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Patterson, just again for my recollection and for the
record, did I understand you correctly that there was no attempt to your
knowledge to ocontact you by the Internal Security of the City of Miami until
last evening?
Mr. Patterson: I didn't receive any phone calls at my home until....
Mr. Plummer: To your knowledge there was no attempt to reach you?
Mr. Patterson: Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Plummer: All right, sir. Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: Anything else, Mr. Patterson? Any other questions of Mr. Patterson?
Thank you for your patients and your time.
Mrs. Gordon: Maurice, they didn't have his name straight as I heard before
until yesterday.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, but I personally took it upon myself to call Florida Power
and Light and get the names of the work crew and within 5 minutes identified
who the man was. Certainly, if I could do that I'm sure the City of Miami
Police Department could have done the same thing. A11 right, the next speaker
is Mr. Charles C. Semen. Mr. Charles C. Semen.
Mr. Silver: All right, Mr. Clerk, would you swear the witness in, please.
Mayor Ferre; Mr. Semen, to cut through it and do it quickly, would you identify
who you are, what your background is, what your experience and qualifications
are and whether or not you work for the City of Miami Police and for how long.
Mr. Semen, duly sworn: My name is Charles C. Semen and I live at 14301 S.W.
92nd Avenue, Miami. I'm retired detective sergeant and director of the crime
laboratory in Washington D.C. I retired in 1971 as the result of an injury
during a security detail for the White House.
Mayor Ferre: How many years of experience did you have in the Washington Police
Force?
53
NOV - 6197
Mt. EMMent Eighteen and a half yeai s ,
Mayor Ferre: 'Mere you in charge did you say, of the Criminal Investigation?
Mt. 8aMen: I said of the cri'nte lab of the police department.
Mayor .Ferret how many erploo,ees did you have under you at any one tim'while
you were doing this?
Mr. Semen: Possibly over a hundred.
Mayor Ferre: Would you feel that you are an expert in this area?
Mr. Sateen: I have testified many times as an expert in the field of criminal-
istics. Yes.
Mayor Ferre: All right, when you retired from the Washington Police Force
you came down to Miami. Can you tell us...
Mr. Semen: Not directly, sir. I was offered a position as a criminalist
instructor at the State Police Academy in Framingham, Massachussettes.
Mayor Ferre: But you choose to come here.
Mr. Semen: Yes, I did. I have relatives here and I've always wanted to
live in Florida.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Semen, would you look at this memorandum of yours, Sept-
ember 15 to Chief Garmire and see if this is the statement that you made to
the chief and would you read it into the record please. Then I'm going to
ask you to explain it.
Mr. Semen: Yes, sir, this is a copy of a letter of resignation that I
forwarded through channels to Chief of Police, Bernard Garmire.
Mr. Silver: Would you read the contents of that letter, please.
Mr. Semen:
To Bernard L. Garmire, Chief of Police through channels.
Subject: Termination and notification.
After a considerable amount of contemplation and deliberation due to
the degrading assignments received and the unprofessionable deplorable
conditions existing within the Identification Detail, the undersigned,
Charles C. Semen, a Criminalist retired from Crime Laboratory of Metro-
politan Police Department with a sigh of relief will, effective at the
completion of his probationary period on October 2, 1974 resign his position
as Technician I.
In our present time and in the history of the criminal justice system
individuals obtaining advanced knowledge and experience in the technical
field of criminalistics and identification are considered assets and util-
ized to their fullest capabilities and expertise by every major progressive
law enforcement agency fortunate enough to have acquired their services.
But in the City of Miami Department of Police Identification Detail one's
education, training and experience is considered a liability and the indi-
vidual is judged by how long he has been reporting for work or seniority and
not his competence. On several occasions I have been advised by other
members of the detail that I am too educated and over qualified for my
position. This type of thinking is astonishing to me because as a prof-
essional I realize that the very safety and lives of the tax paying citizens
of Miami depend on ability of every member of the department, uniform of
civilian being well trained and extremely knowledgeable in their particular
areas of responsibility. In closing it appears that a City with an escalat-
ing crime rate in all categories should endeavor to attract and utilize more
professional and experienced personnel rather than degrade and intimidate
those who enter City service in good faith.
Sincerely,
Charles C. Semen
Mayor Ferre: Nr. Samen, that is a pretty strong statement. Would you
elaborate on why specifically you wrote that and what it means?
Mr. Semen: Well, I feat that the technicians within the Identification Section
that I work with were untrained, ill equipt, did not have proper facilities for
NOV -61974
Conducting cries Scene ifteatigations and many others.
Mr. PiamMer: HOW long were you with the City of Miami?
Mr. SaMen: Exactly one year. The day that I was given my recommendation for
per anent appointment that afternoon I submitted my resignation.
Mr. Plummer: At any time sir, did you bring to your immediate superior or that
of the knowledge of the Chief that you found these conditions deplorable and
you wished to make changes or recommendations for change?
Mr. !lament About 6 weeks prior to my letter of resignation I had a long con-
versation with the administrative part of the Identification Detail at which
time I expressed to them that I was not being utilized to my fullest capabilities
and that I felt that I was not being fair to myself and to my profession.
Rev. Gibson: In that letter you read, read that running commentary on qualifi-
cation. I didn't get that. What they said to you about your qualification,
what did they say? Read it again, read that part.
Mr. Semen: In closing it appears a City with an escalating crime rate in all
categories should endeavor to attract
Rev. Gibson: No, a little further up, the thing I'm concerned
Mr. Semen: But in the City of Miami's Department of Police Identification
Detail, one's education, training and experience is considered by many a liabil-
ity and the individual is judged by how long he has been reporting for work or
seniority and not his accomplishments.
Rev. Gibson: No, sir. Read the whole thing again and I'll stop you when you
get to it.
Mr. Semen: In our present time and in the history of the criminal justice system
individuals obtaining advanced knowledge and experience in the technical field
of criminalistics and identification are considered assets and utilized to their
fullest capabilities and expertise by every major progressive law enforcement
agency fortunate enough to have acquired their services. But in the City of
Miami's Department of Police Identification Detail one's education, training
and experience is considered a liability and the indifidual is judged by how long
he has been reporting for work or seniority and not his accomplishments.
Rev. Gibson: Stop right there, read that again.
Mr. Semen: On several occasions I have been advised by other members of the detail
that I am too educated and over qualified for my present position.
Rev. Gibson: Good. Stop right there. Let me make this comment, Mr. Mayor.
You know, that is like a script. You know what I mean by that? Man, that's
what they usually tell us, that we're over: qualified. You know. I thought I
had better make that, interpose that phrauiology there and call it to the attent-
ion of the Commission because a part of our problem as I see it, and I hope the
team if going to find out too, is just that kind of an attitude.
Mayor Ferre: Are there,any other questions?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Semen, when you applied for employment with the City of Miami
Police Department what did you qualify for'or what did you take the exam for?
Mr. Semen: Technician I.
Mr. Plummer: That is the bottom of the ladder, is that correct?
Mr. Semen: Yes, I did, sir.
Mayor Ferret After having been in charge of 100 men in Washington....
Mr. Plummer: The point I was trying to make, Mr. Mayor, he did not apply for a
supervisor's job or a division head or anything like that. He applied for the
bottom of the ladder. Am I making that point correct, sir?
Mr. Semen: You're right, Commissioner and I might add that at no time did I
ever express any thoughts about becoming a supervisor. The only thing that I
5;.)
NOV •61974
exproosodr to be utilised to isy fullest capability.
Mr. ylumMer: All right, the point 1 was trying to make, let me just make a
point here...Father, that I had a good friend of wine who ie a Jesuit Priest.
We it teething at Scranton University. Re came down here because he wanted to
Nova to Miami and he liked the Miami area and he went out to one of these local
colleges and they told him real quick like, "We'd dearly love to hire you but
you are too over -qualified. We can't afford you."
Mayor Ferre: Now Mr. Plummer, let me make a statement. Now that is fine.
That's like telling me that an open heart surgeon is too over capacitated and
educated to look at me and give me a physical examination. Aiid as far as I'm
Concerned, if a man has that kind of knowledge and that kind of experience and
that kind of background - 18 years, head of a section in the Washington Police
Force and he comes down here as a Technician I certainly I think that we s ould
take advantage of his background, knowledge and experience.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I wholeheartedly agree. The point I'm trying to make
is why would a man with these beautiful qualifications and background apply
for the lowest position.
Mayor Ferre: He explained that. He said that he after 18 years, he was wounded
on White House duty and he retired from the Washington Police Force. Obviously
he was looking for less pressure.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute now, all of this conversation and the City Attorney
has given me a very brief answer - according to Civil Service Rules he has to.
That answers it.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Plummer, that ain't going to answer all of what's in my mind.
Let me go a stp further because you know a part of what we're going to be dealing
with later on has some bearing on this and Mr. Andrews, this affects you. When
we were looking for a City Manager, and please tolerate me, one of the things I
fought hard for was that there should be a review or that a search from within.
Remember that? Everybody loved me for that. You will admit that, huh?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, sir.
Rev. Gibson: Ok. Now what I'm also saying is if our problems are as the Mayor
is indicating a part of the problem with the staff is to continually, remember
now we just said that when we were looking for City Manager we looked on the in-
side. Remember that? Ok. So what I'm sa;'ing is it is a pity that we don't have
a method of upgrading people on our staff. Now again Booz Allen told us that.
Do you remember that?
Mr. Andrews: Sure.
Rev. Gibson: Ah, I'm eventually going to get it all out on the table, wome of
the things that need to be looked after and done. So if a man had that kind of
a qualification and if you had an alert supervisor or whatever or whoever is
in charge he would have picked that up. Wouldn't you think?
Mr. Andrews: He might pick it up but under the present system that we operate
under he could utilize his talents to the greatest extent possible for the City
in that position but we're now operating in a system where he would not have
been able to advance beyond the point he was until there was an opening.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Andrews, OK. Mr. Mayor, let me go with two thoughts. Let me
say that maybe that's what Booz Alien was telling us that we need to realistically
look at. But even more than that, Mr. Andrews, you know what really got me? If
a man ie being dulled and if a man is being castigated because he is intelligent
and qualified maybe we need to look at a lot of folk who are over here.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, with all due respect, the
way the process is you've set up here there hasn't been opportunity to look at
the other side. I don't know what the other side of the coin looks like.
Mayor Farre: We'll understand that
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, let me answer thisl
Mayor Ferre: Wait a minute, Father, excuse me because that is very important
and I want to say it continually on the record. This is not a court. We are
atst toiib*ing a judicial protests. I want to repeat Over and over and over
again that we ate just bringing testimony whi.:h I admit is one sided. There
!my be many many anawera to this. These are questions that have arisen. All
i'e trying to do is I'm trying to, by bringing out this testimony show that
all is not as well as we might think. My purpose is to perhaps show the ex-
tent of the problem. That's all.
Rev. Gibbon: That's alright, I'll let at.bson's part riot.
Mayor Ferret All right, are there any further questions? Let me ask you
this, Mr. Semen. You did say that you did discuss this with tour superiors
and with people involved in your department. Is that correct?
Mr. Semen: Yes, I did.
Mayor Ferre: Did you have positive recommendations as to how things could be
improved?
Mr. Samen: Well, we had brief discussions but as far as positive recommendation
no.
Mayor Ferret Was there any show of interest on the part of your superiors in
trying to garner from you whatever you have learned in your experience in Wash-
ington?
Mt. Semen: Well, we had discussed on many occasions what is being utilized through-
out the country as far as modern criminalistic techniques at crime scenes are in-
volved whereas I did discuss this with my supervisors but nothing was ever done
about it.
Mayor Ferre: The point that I'm trying to make and I just have to relate it to
my own world as you do Father, in your church. If this happened in my business
and I were to get an expert for example in the prestressing process who had 18
years in Washington D.C. in a firm larger than mine and he came down here and
started working in my company, I certainly think it would be in the best inter-
est of my company for the superiors to really want to know how they did it in
Washington and how it was different from what we're doing and how to improve
our system. Certainly take advantage of a man that you have in your employee.
That was the only point I was trying to make.
Rev. Gibson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, you've made my point for me.
Mayor Ferre: Well thank you, Father. Now, are there any further questions?
Oh, one more question I meant to ask you. Have you had any dealings with the
Metropolitan Dade County counterpart?
Mr. Semen: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: In your professional opinion, you don't work for Dade County
now do you?
Mr. Semen: No, I do not.
Mayor Ferre: All right. In your professional opinion at this point since you
work for neither jurisdiction is there a marked difference between the depart-
ments?
Mr. Samen: I would say as far as their criminalistic activity is concerned,
yes there is.
Mayor Ferre: What is the difference?
Mr. Semen: Well in my opinion I think Dade County, their criminalistic activity
is a great deal more advanced and probably more professional.
Mayor Ferree I see. Any further questions? He said that as far as his opin-
ion is concerned that the Dade County Criminal Department of Investigation is
a lot more advanced and a lot more professional, in his opinion. Any other
questions? All right, sir, thank you very much. Mr. Robert Kowalski.
Mr. Silver: Mr. Chairman, I don't believe we've been able to serve.
Mayor Ferree You were unable to serve officer Kowalski?
5J
NOV -61974
Mt, Silvers That's tight, We've not been amble to get in touch with hia,
Mayer Pettit Ail right, bo you want to take up Mr. Hasshersley at this tithe r
Peeet
Mr, vluMMert Mt, Mayor, for the record let me just interject one thing here
and I'M not trying to dictate bow these hearings will go but a young officer
who I will not name at this time is not on the agenda and has not been heard
has requested through the chair that he would like to be heard at some time.
Is it the ruling of the chair that this gentleman would go through normal pro.,
cedures and request to be on a future agenda or what is the, if someone else
wishes to speak other than those listed on thin agenda?
Mayor Ferree I think that really since we've established an order here fa --
us to make one exception would mean that we would have
Mr. Plummer: I'm not asking you to do that, sir.
Mayor Ferre: All right, my ruling is that we will not make exceptions except
for those that are on this list unless we have time in the end. Otherwise
you'll have to be heard at a subsequent meeting.
Mr. Plummer: He would then apply to be heard on a future agenda?
Mayor Ferre: If there is a future agenda.
Mr. Plummer: All right.
Mr. Silver: Mr. Chairman, that has been typewritten. Is that correct?
Mayor Ferre: I understand, I'm trying to follow the list. We had to make
two exceptions but they were within the list.
Mr. Silver: Yes. People have been coming up to me and saying that they've
talked to the Mayor's Office and the Mayor's Office told me to add them onto
the list. So I just wanted to make sure that you're talking about the printed
list.
Mayor Ferre: The printed list. Now the added list is something that we'll
have to deal with later on. All right, the next, Since Robert Kowalski is
not here the next speaker will be officer Gustavo Zenos.
Mr. Silver: Officer, will you state your name and address, please.
Mr. Zenos: I'm Sergeant G. M. Zenos, 1051 W. 47th Street, Hialeah, Florida,
Dade County.
Mr. Silver: And are you employed by Dade County, sir?
Mr. Zenos: Yes, I am.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir, I'm going to advise you at this time that any
answers that you may give to any questions might possibly be used in a disc-
plinary proceeding by the Civil Service Board if such facts indicate a violat-
ion of the Civil Service Rules by yourself, sir. I must advise you of those..
Mr. Zenos: Thank you, I wanted to immediately express myself to that ruling
which I thought that I heard the City Attorney advise at the beginning of this
procedure that any member who appears before the Commission and states whatever
he might feel to be the truth could be reprimanded under Civil Service Rules
and Regulations. I would like to advise after talking to Mr. Huttoe, the
Chairman of the Civil Service Board that we as a body in the Department do not
have the Civil Service Rules up to date. Therefore, I question our responsi-
bility in getting up here to make any statements or answer any questions when
we are yet subjected by these rules but we are not aware of these rules. This
is a very difficult point, 1 think for any police officer in the department.
Rev. Gibson: Let me ask a question. We subpoenaed this man?
Mr. Silver: Yes, sir.
5
Nov - 6 b74
Rev. Gibion: And we're going t<a put him in jeopardy under Civil Service/
Mt. Silveri Wall sir, all f can do is advise him of the fact. I don't waist
him to testify without knowing all the facts.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I can't go for that. I've got to protect that man. No,
man, that's like a gun to your head. Not Mr. Mayor, let's say this: Either we
ought to waive any discplinary action on this man or ...
Mayor Ferre: Discplinary action coshing from his testimony. .gee, because you're
not going to say that he's not going to be disciplined it's not going to be
like'one of these Nixon things that we're going to waive immunity to all prose-
cution on everything whether we know it or not.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, let's say this: I want it crystal clear where Thtodore
stands. If this man testifies here and Civil Service Board deals with him later
on because of his testimony I am unequivocally opposed to having this man testi-
fy. Now either we ought to....
Mayor Ferre: Give us a legal ruling, can we give him immunity, if you will, or
waive that right?
Mr. Lloyd: No, you cannot give him immunity.
Mayor Ferre: I'm talking from Civil Service proceedings.
Mr. Lloyd: No, you cannot give him immunity from Civil Service p:.ocedures.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor
Mayor Ferre: Is there any way that we can clarify it so that he can testify
and not have the fear of Civil Service proceedings against him.
Mr. Lloyd: Maybe, perhaps if I should clarify that, I think that we can pro-
ceed. The only thing that we are saying is that in the event in response to a
question he should testify that he committed a violation of some .sort, then,
you see you cannot give him immunity from that. But we have never said and
are not saying that the mere fact that he testifies he is subject to prosecut-
ion under Civil Service. Does that clarify it? For instance, supposing, let's
not refer to this gentleman here. I don't want to refer to anybody. I think
that would be wrong. But supposing somebody within the City employee would
stand up here and admit and his testimony would bring out that he committed
some very bad violation. Well, under these rules by the mere fact that he
testified here to that that would not grant him immunity from a Civil Service
prosecution.
Rev. Gibson: I understand. Sir, that satisfies me so you realize now you're
taking the risk, you're taking your life in your hands.
Mayor Ferre: Now Sergeant, I'll say at this point that if you do not want to
make a statement I will not, this Commission will not force you to do so.
Sergeant Zenos: What I was going to bring out, sir is not my personal fears.
I've been a police officer too long to fear any action by the Civil Service
Board or any courts. I think I know my rights, etc. I was going to bring out
a point that I don't know how many but quite a few, I expect, police officers
will stand up here under that threat yet not a single one of them in my opinion
knows or has an updated version of Civil Service Rules. If they do not know
what Civil Service Rules stands today how in the world can they be threatened
or can they...
Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Lloyd, answer that.
Mr. Lloyd: Just a moment. Now, I take personal affront and I apologize for
this but a person about to make a statement saying standing up against a threat,
we, this Law Department has made no threats but we would be remiss in our duty
to these people if we did not advise them of their responsiblity.
Mayor Ferre: He's not threatening you, he's just advising you of the law,
that's all.
Mr. Lloyd: That's all we're doing.
5J
NOV -61974
Sergeant Genoa: Ok, it in a question of nemanticn ..,r
Mr. Lloyd* Mky I finish, please. We would be remiss a. it would be wrong of
ue not to Maki euch an advine to them because if w►e didn't do it and then they
Were praeecuted by the Civil Service Board then you would come back and say
"why didn't you tell us?".
Mayor Ferrel Let me cut through it very quickly. Sergeant, that is just like
when you Make an arrest. Don't you have to read a person his rights.
Sergeant Zenos: Yes, sir. Except I don't have the person's rights with me
therefore, I cannot read them if I don't know them and this is the case here
about the Civil Service Rules,
Mayor Ferrel What you're saying is that you don't know what the Civil Service
Rules are. Now why don't you? Because they're not available to you?
Sergeant Zenos: That's right, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Paulk? He says that the Civil Service Rules are not avail-
able to the police officers. Is that correct?
Mr. Robert Paulk: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, copies of the Civil
Service Rules were distributed some years back and they have since been redistri-
buted to some extent. But we are running out of rule books presently and we do
not have enough copies for each individual employee to have one at present. There
are a tremendous number of changes that have been proposed by the Civil Service
Board that will reach your attention, I presume within the next month or two.
And when those things have been acted upon we anticipate that a complete new
book with all of the revisions will be printed so that it may be in sufficient
supply to be supplied to each and every employee. Presently there is not one
available for every employee within the City government.
Mayor Ferre: But if Sergeant Zenos wanted to read one he could go down and read..
Mr. Paulk: Oh yes, I think Sergeant Zenos has a copy. Now I can't swear to
that but Sergeant Zenos was in the office several months ago and T believe I
gave Sergeant Zenos a copy. So it is not a question of Sergeant Zenos not hav-
ing one, he has one. He's speaking, I think, in terms of everyone else.
Mayor Ferre: I misunderstood his statement. All right, Sergeant, go ahead.
Sergeant Zenos: I do have a copy, sir
by Mr. Paulk, I've been advised by Mr.
vice Board that yoll cannot actually go
updated and like you stated there have
which is what.
. The thing is that I have been advised
Huttoe, the Chairman of the Civil Ser-
by those copies because they are not
been so many changes that we don't know
Mayor Ferre: All right, sir. Do you want to make a statement now?
Sergeant Zenos: I would like to ask the Commission, if I may, to refer my
statement to further down the list where I night have a thought on this, sir.
Mayor Ferre:
Rev. Gibson:
Mayor Ferre:
You have what?
He wants to think it over.
Oh, I see.
Sergeant Zenos: In other words, I don't know what number I am on the list.
Mayor Ferre: You're on right now, then you'll have to get to the end of the
list and we'll take you up at a future time. Is that your wish at this time?
Sergeant Zenos: I'll go on with my statement.
Mayor Ferre: You want to make your statement at this time.
Sergeant Zenos: Yes.
Mr. Silver: You've been sworn in, haven't you, Sergeant?
Sergeant Zenos: Yes, sir.
Mr. Silver: Ok, fine.
60
NOV -61974
• •
Sergeant Zeno, : t have appeared before. the Civil Service Board, before the
Cc rieaion of the City of Miami. I have expressed on the record how proud 1
al to be a Miami police officer and how proud 1 am to have so many members
+ihioh 1 also feel are extremely good police officers in the Miami Police Depart-
ment. I hope that everything that I might say here will be taken in a very con-
structive way. I am sorry that the Comr'.ssion has taken steps not to be the
investigators and allow through a motion that was passed this morning to re-
fer the investigative duties to an agency' which means ihat perhaps it will take
months before any results is given to an immediate problem that we have here in
the City of Miami Police Department. I would like to say that on behalf of the
Miami Police Department's Hispanic -American Organization. I appear before the
Commission, before my fellow members of the Police Department and before the
community, fully aware of the seriousness of the issues that have been and are
now being disputed here openly in a public and official manner. Whatever T
have to say during this hearing, I will say with all sincerity and to the _est
of my ability.
We are faced today, just as much as we have been faced in the past, with
a simple problem: The problem of the needs, the welfare, the tranquility and
the aspirations -of our community. The problem becomes complex only because we
think in terms of personal and group interests. Power structures, manifested
inside the Department, manifested in the political arena under our system of
government, in corporations and big business, in our news media, and in all
our social institutions, form a conglomoration of the wealth of our community.
These power structures, surely without malice, but possibly because of our
limited intelligence, have all gone astray. The result has been the creation
of a tense atmosphere in the City and of a deep feeling of mistrust in the
Black and Hispanic -American community as well as the White community. Perhaps
this is what John Locke referred to when he talked about one of the defects
in human nature which must be regulated by good government:
"...men being partial to themselves, passion and revenge is
very apt to carry them too far with too much heat in their
own cases, as well as negligence and unconcernedness to make
them too remiss in other men's."
Our community will not be satisfied until those who hole the strings of power,
wherever that power might exist, realize that it is in their best interest, and
that it is their responsiblity to see that the needs of the people are fulfilled.
For the last year, the Miami Police Department has been under close
scrutiny by this Commission.. The decision of the Federal Court Order of Sept-
ember 14, 1973, has brought about the beginning of positive steps that were
long overdue in the Department. The Federal Court Order dealt specifically with
the Blacks but ambiguously named the Hispanic -American officers in part of its
mandate.
At the time of this decision, the Hispanic -American officers formed an
informal group with the support of many ranking officers in the Department
(in particular Lieutenants, Captains and Majors) as well as the support of the
PBA and the FOP. In forming this group, the Hispanic -American officers felt
that they were answering the needs of the Hispanic -American community, which
constitutes 52% of the population of the City of Miami. This group of Hispanic -
American officers met with Chief Garmire, Mr. Paul Andrews, and Mayor Ferre and
requested that they be equal recipients, along with the Black officers, in the
implementation of the Federal Court Order of September 14, 1973. Although
Chief Garmire sympathized with our position, he was unable to consent to out
request. Mr. Andrews, the City Manager, felt that the Court Order, although
mentioning other minorities, specifically dealt with the Black officers, and
that therefore, he could not appoint a Hispanic -American officer to a policy
decision -making rank. In our meeting with Mayor Ferre on November 27, 1973,
he asked us to sue the City not to try to get an injunction against the Federal
Court Order. He then promised us that he would appoint a Hispanic -American
officer to the rank of Major within a period of 90 days..
Mayof Ferre: Sergeant, let me interrupt you. There is no way that I could
promise that I would appoint because you know the Charter does not permit the
Mayor to appoint any officers in the Police Department. I just wanted to clar-
ify. What I said was that it was certainly my hope and that I would go on the
record as doing everything possible to get it done within 90 days.
Sergeant Banos: Thank you. Ninety days since he interpreted the Federal Court
Order to benefit the Hispanic -American Officers as well as the Black officers.
We took the City in good faith and therefore withdrew our demands.
Immediately after these meetings and for unknown reasons, the PBA and the
POP withdrew their support for our group. The Lieutenants and Captains formed
an association and proposed before the Civil Service Board that Rule 1, Section
C which reads that "any member of the Department can be appointed to the rank
bl
paw
N«61974
a
•
of Major and Assistant Chief without submitting to competitive examinations,"
be atended this is what the Captain's Association were caking the Civil Ser-
vice Board - be amended by the lower departmental rules 2.13 and 2.15. These
rules 2.13 and 2.15 allow the appointment to the rank of Assistant Chief of
only those who hold the rank of Captain, and the appointment to the rank of
Major from the rank of Lieutenants and captains. Since they were unsuccess-
ful before the Civil Service Board, the Lieutenants and Captains appeared
before the Commission early this year, and at that time, the City Manager,
Nt. Andrews, promised then that he would not change the departmental rules
2.13 and 2.15.. Following that Commission hearing, our attorney, Mr. Louis
Wait and I Met with Mr. Andrews to see whethar we could come to an agreement
on the participation of the Hispanic -American Officers in the benefits of the
Federal Court Order. Mr. Andrews responded that he could not agree to negot-
iate with us because he did not recognize our group.or he could not recognize
our group.
On June 14, 1974, with a membership of over 90% of the Hispanic -American
members of the Department, we incorporated our organization with the State of
Florida under the name of the Miami Police Department Hispanic -American Confederation.
The PBA, the FOP, the Lieutenants and Captains' Association and the City Man-
ager, Mr. Andrews, gave us no choice. _
Let me interject here that the question that I'm trying to bring out is
that there is discontentment in the Department and statements have been told
to different people in the Department that we are in fact becoming factional-
ized and making the Department into separate factions. Now, I'll proceed.
Mayor Ferre: Sergeant, excuse me for interrupting you. You're reading from
a statement.
Sergeant Zenos: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Could I impose upon you and ask you to please read it a little
bit faster because there are an awful lot of people that want to speak here
and I think in fairness to them, and I don't mean to put pressure on you, but
could you read it just a little bit faster.
Sergeant Zenos: I'll try to, sir.
On June 14, 1974, with a membership of over 90% of the Hispanic -American
members of the Department, we incorporated our organization with the State of
Florida under the name of the Miami Police Department Hispanic -American Confed-
eration. The PBA, the FOP, the Lieutenants and Captains' Association and
the City Manager, Mr. Andrews, gave us no choice. The decision to form lly
incorporate our group was supported by the Hispanic -American officers, the
Hispanic Community, the Dade County•Community Relations Board, which officially
asked this Commission last year to appoint a Hispanic -American and a Black
officer to the rank of Major, and by all the Black officers of the Department,
as well as other white officers. The PBA, the FOP and Mr. Andrews, however,
feel that the police force should have only one group, and that four factions
will polarize the Department. We say the contrary. We ask them to be open-
minded. If they observe the workings of our democratic system with its checks
and balances; if they study the conflicts within all our institutions, as
well as the history of all our ethnic migrations, they will see that the prob-
lems of our Department can best be solved by different groups working to achieve
peaceful compromise.
I am here on behalf of the Hispanic -American Officers to single out the
internal problems of the Miami Police Department. I will point them out brief-
ly, starting with what may seem like minor problems, but I assure you that they
are not:
1) The men are often reprimanded, especially with written reprimands which
reflect in their profiles, for violations of rules, such as not wearing their
hats at all times, the length of their hair, forgetting to fire once a month,
being late, for missing a radio call, for missing Court although the case
might have been continued, or the defendant or attorney might not have appeared,
for the firearm they wear, for not turning a report on time, for wearing the
Cuban flag on their uniform , etc., etc.
First of all, any modern supervision book will tell a supervisor to do
whatever is possible to motivate the subordinate, and only as a last resort
to reprimand. Secondly, when 'we consider some of the reasons for these repri-
mands in perspective, they become ridiculous. Can we seriously expect these
young men to cut and wear their hair like their fathers die? Should the fire-
arm issue be so important to policy makers, when one considers that officers
have shotguns at their immediate disposal?
2) Minor and allegedly serious past violation, and past personality con-
flicts are held against the individual officer in present or future assignments.
64
NO ■ • 61974
•
3) In Marty instances men are chosen to work on special units through
system of favoritism, although this system is definitely not a Departmental
policy.
A. Specialisation of the Department is overextended over the feasibil-
ity of the number of units and subunits and the shortage of manpower in the
Department.
B. The manpower for specialized units are drawn from radio patrol,
which sakes over 90% of arrests and cane clearances, thereby leaving radio
patrol with a shortage of manpower to natisfy service calls in crime pre-
vention.
C. Furthermore, when an officer is assigned to a special unit of the
Criminal Investigation Section, he or she receives no formal special training
and relies only on his or her ability to learn from observation of others
who have been working in that unit.
D. Lack of supervision in many instances allows the positions in the
Special Units to become "gravy jobs", thereby greatly demoralizing the men
in Radio Patrol.
E. In moat cases, information gathered by these special units is kept
secretly in files and is unavailable to Radio Patrol. This results in a defic-
ient downward flow of communication.
F. Due to the reasons stated above, special units give very little sup-
port to Radio Patrol and in numerous occasions are not available when needed.
7. Supervision throughout the Department is almost nonexistent. This
condition has a very significant and serious effect upon all phases of the
subordinates' field performances and valid evaluation. This is why improper
behavior on the part of the police officers takes place and often goes unnoticed.
8. A substantial number of Departmental rules and regulations are anti-
quated, unconstitutional and in conflict with Civil Service Regulations.
For example, the rules 2.13 and 2.15.
9. Many, if not most of the assignments that are performed by police
personnel inside headquarters can be better performed by civilians. This
would relieve police personnel for miximum effectiveness in police services
and crime prevention.
10. A. Civil Service Regulations for a number of years have aot been
issued to members of the Department. Yet every member must abide by these
rules.
I stated before that the Chairman of the Civil Service Board has stated that
there have been numerous changes in these rules so whether they can get one
at present, they're not getting the whole package.
B. Those of us who have these rules have been told that there have
been many amendments and changes in them.
C. The promotional Civil Service System has become one of the most
problematic issues in the Department. It is inconceivable that the primary
criteria for promotion to the rank of Sergeant, lieutenant, and captain is
not only passing a written test which deals mostly with details rather than
with concepts relevant to police work but also passing with a score that is
high enough to enable the officer to attain the specific rank before the
list expires and a new examination is given.
Past performance, citizens' complaints, serious infractions of rules and
regulations, commendations, higher educational attainment, evaluations, atti-
tude and results of psychological testing, internal and community needs orig-
inating from the ethnic distribution of the City's population do not count one
iota when it comes to promotions.' Thus, the Miami Police Department fines
itself with approximately 10 Black Sergeants, and 8 Hispanic Sergeants out of
approximately 170 Sergeants. Thus, the Miami Police Department does not find
within the rank of lieutenants a single black or Hispanic Captain out of approx-
imately-16 Captains. And when we look at the policy decision -making ranks, con-
sisting of 8 Major and 2 Assistant Chiefs, we find that there is not one Hispanic -
American Officer, and only one Black officer due to the mandate of a Federal
Court, although these ranks according to Civil Service Rules, are appointed
and not competitive ranks, made on the basis of departmental needs and appointed
from any member of the Department.
I have conferred with Chairman Huttoe and Bob Paulk on this and Chairman of
the Civil Service Board, Mr. Huttoe is in accordance with me that the Departmental
rule 2.13 and 2.15 are in conflict with Civil Service Rules yet we abide by them.
At this point I must mention that the ethnic representation in the Miami
Police Department in proportion to the ethnic representation in the Miami Police
Department in proportion to the ethnic population of the City of Miami is as fol-
lows: 1 White American member police officer for 115 White American residents
in the city; 1 Black American member for every 800 Black American residents in
the City; and 1 Hispanic -American member for every 3,000 Hispanic -American resi-
dents. These are approximate figures, Mr. Andrews, but I am sure that they are
very close.
63 NOV • 61974
D. Just as important is the question Of police recruitment. Civil Ser-
vice ask the Department of Police have always recruited in at arbitrary man-
ner, disregarding the heede of the Department and the coMmunity. Whoever
argues that there have been past efforts to actively recruit•Blacke or His-
panic -Americans must be unaware of the inadequacy of such past efforts.
Allow Me to elaborate on the issue of recruitment and upgrading of min-
orities. Upgrading means helping those who are already in the Police Depart-
ment to attain a higher rank. At the beginning of the year, through the efforts
of Commissioner Manolo Reboso, Mayor Ferre and the National ASsociation of His-
panic Law Enforcement Officers, the City of Miami was awarded a federal grant
by the U.S. Justice department, for the purpose of recruiting and upgrading
minotities in the Miami Police Department. Other officers in the force were
not excluded from the upgrading effort byt certainly their participation was
limited since the main purpose of the grant was to fulfill the dominant needs
of our community to hire and upgrade Hispanic and Black officers. Around .1e
middle of May, after readcing the final draft of the grant as proposed by t''
City Manager's office, the Hispanic -American officers objected to several points
in the grant on the grounds that there were pitfalls which could eventually lead
to a failure to fullfill the original grant objectives. This led to a meeting
with Mr. Fuentes, representative from the Justice Department, Chief Garmire,
Assistant Chief Fox, Major DiLucchio, Mr. Rafael Villaverde(representing Mayor
Ferre), Commissioner Reboso, Mr. Paredes (representing the City Manager's Office),
Mr. C. Hevia and Mr. C. Guerra (representing the Hispanic community), Officer
Otis Davis, representing the Black officers, Mr. Edward S. Rivas (now project
Coordinator) and I, as representative of the Hispanic -American Officers in the
Department. At that time the grant was discussed at length and Mr. Fuentes asked
the above representatives to reviw the grant and assured us that if the grant was
endorsed by all the parties it would be accepted in Washington.
In 5 days the grant was reviewed, amended and endorsed by Chief Garmire, the
City Manager, Mr. Villaverde, Mr. Guerra, by the Black officers and by the His-
panic -American officers, and immediately sent to the Justice Department. Then
suddenly there was internal interference from the Miami Polite Department. Federal
Grants Coordinator who communicated on several occasions by phone with LEAA
personnel and from the President of the FOP on behalf of the organization sent
a letter to Mr. Herb Rice, head of grants in the Justice Department criticizing
many aspects of the grant. The influence and interference from the grant coordin-
ator and from the FOP brought a about a series of changes and conditions in the
grant which disrupted the original intent of the program.
The single most important change in the program as it stands now is that
it has been opened to all officers, which in effect means that the upgrading
phase of the grant has been opened to 85% of the White Americans as opposed to
approximately 7% Hispanic -American and 8% Black officers in the Department.
Honestly now, is this what the United States Governemtna and the City Manager
believe to be a minority upgrading project to satisfy the needs of 52% of the
City's population (namely, the Hispanic community) and 23% of the community
(the Black citizens of Miami). In truth, the effect of this change has been
that the White American officers constitute the great majority of those attend-
ing the upgrading classes, which has demoralized the minority members of the
Department. In other words, instead of implementing the changes originally
intended by the grant, the upgrading phase is actually perpetuating the status
quo.of the Department.
As to the first phase of the project, recruitment of minorities, the pro-
gram is now also open to everyone.
The program has now been in effect for 2 months and no recruitment effort
at all has been made, through no fault of the project staff. This only becomes
understandable when we take into consideration that the Federal Government has
not released a single dollar of the $300,000 that have been allocated for the
program; when we consider that the Sergeant who was to head the recruitment drive
and whose appointment was promised eleven weeks ago, was finally appointed only
last week, when we consider that the Civil Service Board was asked by project
staff to delay their entrance examination for police applicants and did not
comply with the request, proceeding instead with this test on the second week
of September. This has created a serious interference to the project since
there are now some 200 applicants on the Civil Service register list which
must be processed before any other minorities and all others may be able to
be recruited as intended in the grant.
There are numerous other problems and interferneces involving the grant
which have created situations that do not conform to our original endorsement of
the grant.
In sum, the most pressing problems facing the Miami Police Department and
the City of Miami are; the issue of ethnic misrepresentation, the issue of
police conduct, and the issue of police service and the dangerously high crime
rate.'
tf our police adMinistrators, our City Manager, Mr. P.M. Andrews, and
ecflte Members of thin Commission do not recognize the urgent need for solv-
ing these problems in view of the immediate needs of the Miami Police Department
in its relation to our community, the result will be the intervention of
Federal Courts to correct the unjust conditions that now prevail.
Those who secretly or openly propose consolidation with the Dade County
Metropolitan Government are only perpetuating the problems of this community
and are ignoring the interests of the people of Mimi.
We hope that in choosing the next Chief of Police, the main criteria
will be that me must have a humane attitude and intimate knowledge of the
needs of our community, that he be open-minded and unbiased, that he possess
the vigor, energy and decisiveness to exert his authority throughout the
Department, and finally that he will have the support and backing of this
Commission and the people of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you very much Sergeant. Are there any questions of
Sergeant Zenos? Thank you. Is Mrs. Elizabeth Verrick here? Mrs. Verrick,
due to the fact that you have a board meeting at 4:00 O'Clock you did come
up earlier in this list and I had changed it to later on but I'm going to
revert back then and put you up next with your people that are going to testi-
fy. I would be very grateful though since it is 3:15 and we are going to
break up in two hours that the people that are going to testify now try to
keep their statements right to the point.
Mrs. Verrick: Do you want to question me or do you want me to say what I
have on my mine?
Mayor Ferre: Do anything you want, Mrs. Verrick.
Mr. Lloyd: All she has to do is be sworn.
Mrs. Elizabeth Verrick, duly sworn: Mr. Ferre, I have brought three people
with me who are going to testify.
Mayor Ferre: We'11 recognize them. Why don't you just make an opening state-
ment and then we'll recognize the people and get the statements from them.
Mrs. Verrick: Just for once I'm going to read it becau:.e I want it to be
accurate. Before I speak of the matters that I came here to talk about, if
you'll indulge me just one moment, I would like to speak to something that
is related but tangential to the matter you're hearing. Duriri the past week
I have received several telephone calls from people who intima:ed that there
is something of a political nature involved in this investigation. My response
was that it seems to me that whoever implied that must be unaware of the sit-
uation and of the corroding effect in the community of the events that Mayor
Ferre is seeking to correct. Further, it seems to me that rather than oppose
the Mayor in his courageous efforts to eliminate the evils in a branch of the
City government by giving leadership...
Mayor Ferre: Mrs. Verrick, excuse me for interrupting you but I would be very
grateful if we keep the names of myself and anybody on the Commission out of
this. That really has nothing to do with it, and I apologize to you.
Mrs. Verrick: That's alright, I simply decry the fact that people write things
because they don't know what they're writing about.
Mayor Ferre: Well, the truth always comes out in the long run so we're not
going to worry about it.
Mrs. Verrick: True. I knew you were going to stop me and I just didn't think
I would get that far with it
Mayor Ferre: I don't know whether to thank you or not for that.
Mrs. Verrick: After 41 years of work with ex -offenders in our probation parole
program in our office, we have learned fairly accurately of what has been going
on for soars time. The cases that have been reported to us read like a series of
horror stories which if the people knew would long ago have been corrected be-
cause there would have been a demand on the part of the public for correction.
It goes back to a day when there was an event in Verrick Park and I don't think
I have to repeat that because I'm sure Father Gibson knows all about it; when
a young man was in trouble there and 40 citizens objected to it and went down
to see the Chief of Police and were never allowed to see him. Also, the case
6v Nov •61974
of ema Of our employeea whose I've known for about 10 years who has worked for
us for about 2 years, had 8 harrasaments in a row for nothing at all. These
were reported to the Internal Security Department at the suggestion of Mr. J.L.
Plummer and you have a ccinplete record of that eo ther4 is no use repeating it.
Many cases of harrassment, brutality to blacks and whites, men and aoMetimes
Women have been reported to us many many times. We cannot relate them to you
because we do not have the permission of the people whom they concern and there-
fore, we cannot tell the names. However, privately they would be perfectly
willing to discuss them with you. You may think that these are exaggerations,
you may think that some of them are not true but I must tell you that there
are so many and they form such a definite pattern and they are so much alike
that it is impossible to disregard them. I skip over the ones that I can't
tell the names of and what I would like to say is - and very briefly - that we
are trying to find out why there is so much crime in our area. The crime 3s
caused by a great many things more than what we call criminals. :t is cautad
by the great fear of police, by the harrassment of the police, by the peopl,
who are stopped for little no reason and end up in jail. We will have a con-
tinuation of this unless the causes are not stopped. There is a community re-
lations unit in the Police that has done a fine job. There are many officers
in the police who are doing a fine job and I am sorry to see them painted
with the same brush of whom I feel, of many of whom I feel are guilty of sadis-
tic and racist conduct. I have brought with me Mrs. Carolyn Mc Bride and Mrs.
Mittie Andrews and Bennie Taylor.
Mayor Ferre: If you'll step forward, who are we going to hear first? ARe we
going to hear... Mrs. Andrews, would you step forward, please? Mrs. McBride,
would you step forward, please? All right, if you'll both be sworn in at this
time we'll take your statement.
Mr. Silver: Ma'am, will you please state your name, one of you. Speak into
the microphone, your name and address.
Mrs. Mittie Andrews, duly sworn: It's Mittie Andrews, 229 Jefferson Drive,
Coconut Grove.
Mr. Silver: Ok, Mrs. Mc Bride, would you state your name too, please, into
the record and your address.
Mrs. Carolyn Mc Bride: I'm Mrs. Carolyn Mc Bride, 3356 Bird Avenue, Coconut
Grove. (duly sworn)
Mayor Ferre: All right, ma'am, if you'll make your statement.
Mr. Silver: This is Mrs. Andrews speaking now.
Mrs. Andrews: I just wanted to know why when the policemen arrive they beat
people up. My boy was beat up out Easter Friday.
Mayor Ferre: What is your boy's name for the record, Mrs. Andrews?
Mrs. Andrews:: William Andrews.
Mayor Ferre: A11 right. Is this Easter of this year, '74?
Mrs. Andrews:: Easter, past Easter.
Mayor Ferre: This year?
Mrs. Andrews:: Yes. And he was sent out the next day to the stockade for 30
days. He called me and told me to bring him a shirt down because his shirt was
torn and bloody. When I got there they had done transferred him down to the
stockade. On Tuesday they just brought him into Jackson Memorial Hospital and
I didn't know it until Friday and his jaw bone was broken.
Mayor Ferre: His jaw was broken, you say?
Nes, Andrews: Yes. And also his teeth, on one side they had taken them out.
Mayor Ferre: A11 of his teeth had been knocked out?
Miff, Andrews: They had taken them out or they knocked them out or something,
I don't know what happened. But what I'm worried about, they didn't even
bt) NOV -61974
SOW/ SO What Was going on •
Mayer Petr'e: They didn't notify you or anybody in his family? Does he
MSS a wife?
Mrs: Andrews: Rim and his wife are divorced and he is living at lay
house.
Mayor Ferre: And you were not notified.
Mrs. Andrews: No. I was notified through one of the workmen at Jackson
Memorial....
Mayor Ferre: What was the charge, do you know? Is your son here?
Mrs. Andrews: No, he's not. They said he was drunk but I didn't know
you were supposed to beat up a drunk man.
Mayor Ferre: What were the other circumstances involved?
Mrs. Andrews: He do have a history of seizures.
Mayor Ferre: What kind of seizures?
Mrs. Andrews: Epileptic, I guess, I never knowed.
Mayor Ferre: Is he an epileptic?
Mrs. Andrews: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: He has epileptic seizures?
Mrs. Andrews: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: Was he having an epileptic seizure when he was arrested?
Mrs. Andrews: I couldn't tell you because I wasn't there.
Mayor Ferre: Where is your son now?
Mrs. Andrews: He's home. And I went down to bond him out. They wouldn't
allow ale to bond him out and I did tell them that he have a history of
epileptics and he said he didn't care. He said why he was in jail and
that was it. I could come down tomorrow and bond him out.
Mayor Ferre: All right. Well, Mr. Andrews, that's something else for
you, I don't think we can really get into it any further than that. Is
there anything you wish to tell us, Mrs. Andreas?
Mrs. Andrews: Well, it is a long story so i'll allow Mrs. Mc Bride to say
it to have something to say.
Mayor Ferre: I didn't understand, do you want to say anything else?
Mrs. Andrews: It is a long story about my child and myself and the stockade
and Jackson Memorial and the Police Department.
Mayor Ferre: Let's leave it this way; Mr. Andrews, would you look into it and
give us a report on this case? All right, Mrs •
Mrs. Andrews: And when I got to the, one thing I can say, when I got in the
hospital I didn't even know him and he couldn't talk because they had tied his
jaws together and i couldn't believe it was him. When I found out definitely
it was him why I couldn't help but to cry.
Mayor Ferre: All right, now Mrs. Andrews, would your son being willing to
sign a release of medical information from the hospital?
Mrs. Andrews: Sure he would! He was out there for about two weeks and then
Jackson held a great big thick record of him and he's still going to the hos-
pital.
Mayor Ferre: Would you ask your son to bring that information and make and
slake an appointment with Mr. Andrews?
61
ire. Andrews: Now, I don't kW* if he can get the written inforaation but he
tan bring or&1: inforbetion.
mayor Ferre: Well, if he signs a waiver we can get the written hospital infori
eatirn.
Mr. Lloyds The hospital has a form and if he will Etign it we can get the form.
Mayor Petrel hell you get the form and then he can come in and see you or Mr.
Andrews and sign it.
Mrs. Andrews: Nell he's ready now to go back to have this jaw redone for some
reason. I don't know Why but he have an appointment to go back.
Mayor Ferret A11 fight. Thank you very much, Mrs. Andrews.
Mr. Plummer: With this beating that he supposedly, allegedly got, did this
occur by the City policemen or while he was in jail.
Mrs. Andrews: I can't tell you whether it was by the City policemen or in
jail because they had picked him up and he called me from the jail and told me
to bring him a shirt because this shirt he had on was all bloody and torn up.
I can't say if it was same patrolman or it was from the jail.
Mayor Ferre: All right, thank you very much. Any other questions from Mrs.
Andrews? Mrs. Mc Bride.
Mrs. Verrick: Mrs. Mc Bride is going to verify what Benny Taylor says so let
Benny go next.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Benny Taylor. Would you be sworn it please.
Mr. Benny Taylor(duly sworn): Well, like some friends and I were coming from a
party one night. We were going down Dixie Highway and Bird Road, like police
were searching the area
Mayor Ferre: Wait a minute, tell us for the record your full name and your
address and where you were.
Mr. Taylor: I'm Benny Carr Taylor, 3278 Douglas, Apartment 4. At that partic-
ular time I was working at Coconut Grove Cares and I'm still there, you know,
planning on getting into some type of business.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Leonard, go ahead.
Mr. Taylors Well anyway, one night we had left the party, we were walking
down Bird Road and Dixie Highway and the City of Miami Police were circling
the area and they didn't stop or nothing like that but once we went through
this walkway to get over on the black part, the black section of the streets,
you know, and all of that one of them stopped us and instead of him asking
us to stop or come to the car or whatever he opened his back door and he got
out and took the leash off his dog and let him loose. So like a loose German
Shepard Police Dog don't know nobody if a police officer's not there. So all
we could do was run from the dog. When we ran from the dog the dog chased us
a couple of blocks.
Mayor Ferre: Well what were you doing when the dog was let loose? I don't
understand.
Mr. Taylor: We were walking towards the policeman's car?
Mayor Ferree Were you doing anything?
Mr. Taylor: No, we were on our way home coming from a party. We were on our
way home. We had been walking. We were on our way home. We met the police
officer coming up a street.
Mayor Ferre: Now you're making this statement under oath. I don't mean to
be questioning that your, but I want you to understand that whatever you say
here is under oath and it can be used in any type of prosecution. So just be
very accurate in what you say.
at,
NOV • 61974
Mt, fiaylt r t 1 know that. Might, all right, don't worry. And so like whe..
We were cuing through there, like 1 said, instead of the officer saying cote
over to the cat or whatever, all he did was atop the car, get out $nd let the
dog loose and take the leash off of it. The dog came towards us so all we
could do was run from the dog. As we were running we ran by Mrs. Mc Bride's
house and other peoples' houses and so on, and I was trying to get up under
het house but which 1 couldn't because it was built into the ground. And
one of the police officers said he could either be under this trailer or
under this house. One of them went walking by the trailer and he didn't see
me there so he came scaling along the side of the house. And he almost stepped
on my head and he took his flash light and started to beat me with the flash
light.
Mayor Ferre: He started to what?
Mr. Taylor: Beat me with the flashlight.
Mayor Ferre: This was at night?
Mr. Taylor: Right, at night. And I was down and they put the handcuffs on
me. He took the dog by the neck and instead of him holding the dog off or
something he took the dog and was just letting him nibble on me. On each
let, I've got the holes in my legs to prove it and I had a doctor look at it,
you knew. This dude that was with me, they drug him all over the ground and
kicked him and carried on There was this young dude, they would have
did him the same way but he, you know just couldn't do nothing.
Mayor Ferre: All right, is there anything else you want to say?
Mr. Plummer: Just for the purpose of asking, at any time did you ever make
a complaint to the Police Department about this alleged activity?
Mr. Taylor: Not really, but I went to the proper people. You know I made a
complaint to the proper people.
Mayor Ferre: Who are the proper people?
Mr. Plummer: Who were the people you co:iplained to?
Mr. Taylor: Coconut Grove Cares.
Mr. Plummer: Is that one of the cases, Mrs. Verrick, that you brought to my
attention and before you got the chance I told you to go stra..ght to Internal
Security?
Mrs. Verrick: No, that was all the case of one other person, the whole thing
that we -went into was another person.
Mayor Ferre: What did you do with this information, Mrs. Verrick?
Mrs. Verrick: Benny went to jail, he case was heard at 6:00 O'Clock that
night. It was dismissed. He called our assistant director who went and got
him and Benny came into our office the next morning and we called Dr. Georgia
who came in and looked at his legs and said yes they were dog bites. Tell
them what they called you.
Mayor Ferre: But did you ever report it to the Police Department, is what I'm
asking. -Was the Police Department ever informed?
Mr. Taylor: Then again, in a way, for what? After I got down to the police
station the policeman took a 25 automatic and put it to my head and asked me
if I could get out of that jailhouse I could go free. Wasn't no use me telling
them people nothing.
Mr. Plummer: Were you arrested?
Mr. Taylor: For loitering and prowling.
Mr. Plummer: You were but you were taken in.
Mr. Taylor: Yes, I was arrested for loitering and prowling
Mr. Plummer: What time of night was this?
NOV -61974
Mr. Taylot a ltime but 2 O'Clock.
Mr. PluMmert to the morning?
Mr. Taylor: Right.
Mayor Parrs: All right, are there any other questions of Mr. Taylor?
Mr. Plummer: amuse me, one final question, what was the outcome of the
charge of loitering and prowling?
Mr. Taylor: There was no outcome. I went to court the next day and they
let me loose.
Mr. Plummer: All right, so it was dismissed.
Mayor Ferre: He said that before.
Mr. Taylor: Right.
Mayor Ferre: Ok, now Mrs. Mc Bride, are you going to testify that you saw?
Tell us what you saw.
Mrs. Mc Bride: It must have been about O'Clock that morning I heard dogs
barking and I got up and looked out of the window and I saw a young man run-
ning down the street with the dog right at foot's length. He went across the
street and I went to my front window which faces Bird Avenue, across froth the
Dixie and I saw the young man go up under a clump of bushes, the policemen
were right behind him. They got him out, they hit him with the flashlight
and they made him sit by the police car and I couldn't see anymore.
Mayor Ferre: Are there any questions of Mrs. Mc Bride?
Mrs. No Bride: They called him a lot of vile names.
Mayor Ferre: You heard this, did you?
Mrs. Mc Bride: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: All right. Are there any other questions of Mrs. Mc Bride?
Mr. Andrews, this is another matter which I think you will have to make a re-
port on, look into. All right, anything else you wish to say?
Mrs. Mc Bride: YPs. I would like to know why that a policeman would come
into your home under false pretense when a kid comes to the door he immediately
grabs him by the arm, pull him out on the porch and say you're under arrest for
breaking and entering. I immediately told the policeman my son did not do it
because during the time the kids broke into this carpet place on South Dixie
Highway my son and his friends had just pulled up on the side of my house. I
said all you would have to do is walk directly behind my house to his friend's
house and they would verify his story. They told me that they did not have the
time, his friends were not a judge, they would take him to jail and I would have
to bail him out. I went down there Saturday morning to see exactly what he was
charged with. They told me I he was on a thousand dollars bond. I would have
to put up $100 to a bondsman which was Slatko and get him out and which I did.
On that next Wednesday we went to the hearing. I had to obtain a lawyer which
cost me a hundred and fifty dollars. Then they threw the case out and I would
like to know why is it that people have to spend money foolishly when a police
files the report?
Mayor Ferre: All right, now for the record, and this had not come to my attent-
ion before, but now I remember this. I have written the City Manager a memor-
andum dated June 20th requesting that he investigate the case of Benny Taylor
and Leon Leonard. The following is the response and I want to read it for the
record:
In response to your mearorandum of June 20th concerning a telephone call
from Mrs. Elisabeth Verrick with reference to the arrest of Mr. Benny Taylor
and Mr. Leon Leonard on June 13th, 1974 the following is provided; pursuant
to your request an investigation has been conducted. The results of that in-
vestigation are as follows: The City of Miami Police officer responded to a
prowler call at 3:58 A.M. As the canine officer arrived he observed three
subjects fleeing through a parking lot. A search was conducted by several
police units. During the search an officer came within two feet of Benny Taylor
u NOV • 61974
who wag hiding in the bushes. As Benny Taylot jumped up the officer insti dtively
struck him and the dog tore his pants. Benny Taylor was then arrested, han(cuffed
and placed into the police vehicle. Upon arrest, a Sergeant was dispatched to the
locati*n of the arrest and examined Benny Taylor. There were no dog bites nor any
other injuries, only the torn pants. There was no indication that Benny Taylor's
affiliation with Coconut Grove Cares has any bearing on the arrest. in view of the
above it can only be cdncluded that Monsieurs Benny Taylor and Leon Leonard com-
plaint is unfounded.
Now we've heard testimony here to the contrary. Let me ask tou this, ma'am,
would you be willing to submit yourself and Mr. Taylor, where are you, to a
polygraph teat on this? Would you submit yourself to a lie detector test? The
answer is yes. And you, on this particular subject?
Mrs. Mc Bride: Yes. But the case I'm talking about is not Benny Taylor
MayOr Ferrer No, I know that. But I'm just trying to'get back to this before
we finish on... Now are you telling me that what you witnessed and what you
saw, you're willing to take a lie detector test on?
Mrs. Mc Bride: Yes.
Mayor Ferrel And you are too, Mr. Taylor? All right, then I would recommend,
Mr. Manager, that you arrange that and if the record so indicates your opening
the case up again you so do it.
Rev. Gibson: May I ask Mr. Taylor.. Mr. Taylor, did you substantiate the fact
that you were coming from a party?
Mr. Taylor: Right, I was coming from a party.
Rev. Gibson: I didn't ask you that, I said did you prove that in court?
Mr. Taylor: Yes, I could prove that.
Rev. Gibson: I said did youl
Mr. Taylor: No, I didn't. I wasn't asked all of that in court.
Rev. Gibson: Well, that's unfortunate because now remember what is being said
of you. I want everybody to know that just like I get rough on other than
black I get rough on blacks too. Because I really want to follow a trend of
thought. Mr. Taylor, I'm sorry they didn't substantiate the fact that you
were corning from a party. Whose party and where was the party?
Mr. Taylor: The party was on Thomas Avenue across from Tucker Elementary
High School in a duplex.
Rev. Gibson: Thomas...
Mr. Taylor: Thomas and Grand.
Rev. Gibson: There were other people there?
Mr. Taylor: Yes, there were.
Rev. Gibson: You mean nobody came up and asked you to substantiate that you
were coming from a party that time of morning?
Mr. Taylor: No.
Rev. Gibson: I wish they had because you see, I'm not going to only, you know
I get concerned about what is happening in the area where I live too. And you
know it isn't circumscribed to those other folk, you understand. Do you under-
stand what I'm saying?
Mr. Taylor: Yes.
Rev. Gibson: So I wish they had really substantiated the fact that either
you were or were not coming from a party. I don't understand why if you went
to court that wasn't brought up. You know? And you know some people should
have showed up to se.y "Yes, Benny Taylor was coming from a party, 3 O'Clock
in the morning." Remember the inference - you were prowling. Do you
71
NOV - 61974
10
understand? And not judging you. t just want to be fair. Ok.
Mr. Taylor: Right. Ok, (1) When I was coming from the party, like in court
you don't usually get a chance to eay what you want to say. They don't ask
you where were you, how did you get there, where did you get there, all of
that. All they want to know if you're guilty or innocent. Whatever they're
going to do they do or whatever they're going to let you know they let you
know. And if the people that were at the party, if they would have known
what would have happened it is guaranteed that they would have said something.
Just like I said, if it comes right down to it I can prove that I was at a party.
I had just left the party, rather.
Mr. Reboso: I have a question. Commissioner Plummer asked at whht time this
happened and you said 2 O'Clock. The report from the police says 3:58. That
is 4 O'Clock in the morning. There is a two hour difference.
Mr. Taylor: With them riding us all over the place, taking us in Zayre's
parking lot and talking about dumping somebody in the bay, wasting all of
that time they can't do nothing but say that.
Mr. Raboso: So you say it was at 2 O'Clock.
Mr. Taylor: That's what time it was. I know exactly what time it was.
Mayor Ferre: I think that is an important detail but I think the real sub-
stance is whether or not the allegations that you were hit over the head with
a flashlight, that the attack dog was loosened on you and the other allegations
that you've made are I think the main substance of what you want to get into,
Mr. Andrews, in your reinvestigation of this case.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, you see, I think the linkage is important. If this
man was on the street coming home from a party he is a citizen and he ought to
be permitted to do that at any hour in the morning he wishes. Don't let's for-
get that. All right. The other thing is if this man wasn't coming from the
party then the allegation may well be right. That is the point I'm making.
You know my brother I sympathize with you. I understand your problem but I
just want to make sure we put it all on the table so that we could be dealing
evenly and fairly here today. Do you understand me?
Mr. Taylor: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: Father, I understand your point. The thing I'm concerned about
and again as I stated earlier this morning, I have no objections to police using
dogs. Now I know that is a big hang up but I've got no objections to them. I
think that they serve a useful purpose at the right time. What I would think
is wrong is for a dog to be improperly used. In other words for a dog to be
loosened on a man without a real specific purpose. Just like that I think
that force has to be used sometimes. But if you're using force indiscriminately
just to make a point and cracking somebody over the head just to crack them on
the head that's where the distinction is and that's why I think that this matter
ought to be reopened again, Mr. Andrews. Is there anything else that you want
to say?
Mr. Taylor: Yes, like who called in the prowler's report?
Mayor Ferre: I don't know, that's something that Mr. Andrews will have to
look into, if you would please.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Andrews, when you investigate I wish you would try and find
out... Mr. Andrews, I wish you would investigate as you proceed, how did the
court find this man not guilty? You know what I mean? Here is, they say this
man was prowling. You know what I mean? You go to court, maybe we need to go
even further than what we're talking about. You know I'm concerned about some
of these lawyers; now Mr. Mayor, I want to tell my fellow Commissioners this.
There are some lawyers who make it habit, a practice and they make a living of
black folk because they don't know no better. Now, why would a man be taken
to court, what did the policeman say? "We were called because he was prowling."
Why wasn't it proven that this man was prowling? Now it would be an easy thing.
Now I tell you I'm not a judge and I'm not a judge and I'm not a lawyer but I
would have said where are you coming from this time of morning. You know what
I mean? Why didn't they establish that? That's important. Mr. Andrews, so you
need to look at the court record and you know, try to ascertain for the benefit
of us so we could be better enlightened. Now a citizen has a right to be on
NOV - 61974
the street any hour of the day or night as long as he is not in violation
of the law. We don't have any curfews around here. Do we? Huh? Well
all right. SO 1 went to make sure this man gets a fait shake but 1 don't
want to let him off knowing that I've got some thoughts in my mind.
Mrs. Verricks Father Gibson, for what it's worth, and of course it wouldn't
stand up in court; two people that were at that party told me in the office
the next day that they were at the party that Benny left. Also, I don't
think it has beenbrought out the terrible language that was used to call
him names that I would not speak.
Rev. Gibson: I'm not going to deny the language but Mrs. Verrick, as i know
you so well I want to say this: I'm troubled that in the court they didn't
seek to establish the link between the party and the prowling. I hope the pub-
lic gets the inferrence of what I'm saying.
Mrs. Verrick: Father Gibson, it's too bad that I can't tell you, maybe a
dozen other cases because they would be heresay but cases much worse than
this. But there is no use of my telling because it is just my word. I
don't want to take up your time on something that can't be proved. So I'm
not going to say anymore.
Mr. Plummer: Benny, Mr. Taylor, the big discreptancy between what you have
said and the City Manager's memorandum, as I understood you said you were
merely walking down the street. Is that correct? Did I understand you cor-
rectly?
Mr. Taylor: That's what we were doing.
Mr. Plummer: The memorandum that the City Manager has forwarded to us in
explanation of this case is that you were running through a parking lot. Now
is there any question in your mind that there could have been a descreptancy
such as this?
Mr. Taylor: No question in my mind whatsoever. I was chased through the
parking lot. I was chased by the police dog through the ... while we were
walking.
Mr. Plummer: But what you're saying is at the initial contact wi::h the police
you were walking down the street.
Mr. Taylor: That's right. I was walking towards him.
Rev. Gibson: The party is on - now you all don't know where Thomas Avenue is.
I live out there so I do. The party was on Thomas Avenue which is West of Douglas
Road based on the address.
Mr. Taylor: Right.
Rev. Gibson: Where were vou picked uo?
Mr. Taylor: I was picked up on Dixie Hiahvav and Bird Road.
Rev. Gibson: Dixie and Bird. So vou left the oartv aoina that wayb Where do
you live?
Mr. Taylor: I live at 3278 Douglas.
Rev. Gibson: Where you say?
Mr. Taylor: 3278 Douglas.
Rev. Gibson: That means you came up to the corner. Wait! Listen. He was in
the middle of the block between Douglas and Brooker. Isn't that right? That's
where the party was. I used to have, that used to be our church site so I know
it too well. Ok, so if you said.. What is the address again? The address
where the party was.
Mr. Taylor: The party was on Grand and Thomas.
Rev. Gibson: There isn't no such thing as Grand and Thomas, man. Look, Grand
runs this way, Thomas runs this way.
7ti NOV - 61974
Mr. Taylor! Grand ma this way, Thomas runs this Way. Thomas runs right
into grand this and this way. At Douglas Road. •
1'. Oibeon t ko i roan.
. Tayiort Douglas ;road, tight. I'm sorry, Douglas Road, Douglas and Grand.
Rev. Gibson: Oh.
Mr. Taylor: I live on Douglas.
Rev. Gibson: All right. So what hundred block you were in? What was the address
where the party was?
Mr. Taylor: I don't know the address, all i know was the location. I knot► it
was across the street from Tucker High School.
Rev. Gibson: All right, ok. Let me do ibis for the public. Remember here is
what this man is saying that the party ws here in this, block. This is Grand
Avenue. Isn't that right? Wait a minute. You live on Douglas. This is Douglas,
isn't that right?
Mr. Taylor: Right, that's Douglas.
Rev. Gibson: Ok, and Bird Avenue is way over that way, isn't that right?
Mr. Taylor: Right.
Rev. Gibson: Ok, all Ism trying to do is I want to make sure we get a good pict-
ure. You see, of location. And if we could establish location - he said he was
on his way home. I just, I see what you're saying sir but let me go on into a
little detail.
Mr. Taylor: Excuse me, I did not say I was on my home. I said I live at 3278
Douglas. I said I was leaving a party and was walking. That's what I said I
was doing.
Rev. Gibson: All right. BeautiEull Let me go on with your argument. Man,
ok, I hope to; look, when you got up here you say you live on Grand Avenue.
Mr. Taylor: I live on Douglas.
Rev. Gibson: Where is Bird Avenue in relation to where my hand is, in that
direction?
Mr. Taylor: Right.
Rev. Gibson: How many blocks?
Mr. Taylor: I don't really know straight out.
Rev. Gibson: It has to be a few blocks, more than three or four blocks, there-
abouts.
Mr. Taylor: Right.
Rev. Gibson: A11 right. I've made my point, I trust.
Mayor Ferre: A11 right, are there further questions of Mr. Taylor? Thank
you, Mr. Taylor. Mrs. Verrick, is there anything else you want to state at
this time? All right, thank you very much. At this time....
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, may I offer a suggestion? Since it is very obvious
that we only have an hour and 10 minutes left and I'm looking at approximately
20 names that are yet to testify, may I suggest since you are familiar with the
names that are on this list, I think in all fairness if you were to choose 4 and
then maybe dismiss the rest of the people who are here under subpoena because I
think there is no question we're only going to be able to hear, if we're lucky,
another 4 people.
Mayor Ferret *11 right, I think that is a very good idea. I would like to
hear from the Motel Association represented here by Mr. Pine and Mr. Cruz and
then after that, I think we can hear Mr. Molina and Mr. Llopez in the Windwood
area and Mr. Rsmmersley will be'next after the Hotel Association. Mr. Cruz
Mr. P.na.
v
NOV -61974
Mr* pier: Do ma understand each other, ilr. Mayor then the t no one else
will be expected to testify today?
Mayor Pierre: You said 4 ntom► so we've got three.
Mr. Plummer: Well you've got four, five.
Mayor Ferte: We've got the Hotel Association, and we've got Mr. Hammersley,
(,lopes and Molina are the same thing. That is three. Yes, but they're going
to talk on the same thing.
Mr, Plummer: All right, for all practical purposes that is three. Are you
going to choose one more, Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, I think we may ask Otis Davis to make a statement.
Mr. Plummer: All right, sir. Then what we are to understand, Mr. Mayor, that
the 5 people that have been outlined are the only ones who will testify for the
remainder of this...
Mayor Ferre: There are four groups. Those four groups, I don't think they are
people - Mr. Davis may have some other people that would want to....
Mr. Plummer: Would it be safe to say, Mr. Mayor, that if the rest of the people
that are here under subpoena wish to leave at this time that they could do so?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, they may. All of you that wish to leave other than those
areas that I've talked about- The Hotel Association, Mr. Hammersley, The Wind -
wood Association and Otis Davis and his group. When Otis Davis speaks I would
like the participation of Sergeant Ronald Hanley or Lieutenant Murphy or Major
Mc Laughlin on the question of the case involving Mr. Otis Davis in 1969 that
I want to ask why it is being investigated. You go right ahead now.
Mr. Silver: Would you please state your name and address for the record, sir.
Mr. Robert Cruz, duly sworn: My name is Robert Cruz. I live at 16330 N.E. 2nd
Avenue, North Miami. I am the president of the Greater Miami Hotel and Motel
Association as well as the general manager of the BiF.cayne Terrace Hotel.
Mayor Ferre: Why don't you just make a general statement and then we'll ask
you questions.
Mr. Cruz: Of course our association is composed of 54 members and anything
that I may say dom3 not necessarily reflect the thinking of all of the member-
ship. However, as the President of the Association I do get tie complaints.
A few months ago I was requested to have a meeting with the Cicy Manager, Mr.
Andrews. He was gracious enough to grant us a meeting and we sat down and
discussed what we considered to be a very bad situation especially in the down-
town area of the City of Miami. We are involved in an industry that employees
300,000 people in this area and we spend a lot of money going out and getting
people to visit it us whether it be for shopping or to go to the Disney World
area and we find that we are steadily loosing tourists. People are being accoust-
ed on the street, people are being mugged at 2 O'Clock in the afternoon and we
find that this situation even though Mr. Andrews had promised that it would get
better, we feel that it is not getting better. We also asked Chief Garmire to
sit down with us and go further and see what could be done. And I want to speci-
fically say that our complaint is not against the officer who is walking the
beat. These officers are most cooperative, most helpful. However, when we
call and we need a policeman we have waited sometimes as much as an hour. This
happened in the case of one hotel manager who called me, had a drug addict in
his cellar and it took one hour for somebody to come down and get that man out
of there. If this man had had a weapon, especially in a crowded lobby, some-
body might have been hurt. Secondly, when another hotel manager sees a car
prowling and feels that something is going to happen he calls downtown; they're
told wait until something happens then we'll be over. I don't think that is
a proper answer. I have a hotel manager here that had 16 breaking and enterings
in the last three months. The officers responded, people sometimes were picked
up, everything was explained. However, when he called back to follow up and
find out "what heppened with my 16 cases?" He was told they'll be worked on.
And this is, as I say, in a period of 3 months. He was told that "They're work-
ing on it." So again, in an industry which is suffering from other problems
from the economy in the country, from the gas situation, etc., we feel that we
are one of the lifebloods of this area. We employ a lot of people. The tourist
7a
NOV « 61974
industry t think is boat important to the economy not only of Dade County but
of to tha state. we're talking about a $6,000,000 industry. And I think if
it is naeebsary to put more walking policemen on, if it is necessary to shake
seeebody up it has to be done because we can not keep bringing people up here
and having the reputationin Latin American countries that the City of Miami
le net Ohre to go out of Your hotel after 5 O'C1ock. i think that is all I
have to say, Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, if you want to ask me
any questions.
Mayor Ferrel Are there any questions to be asked of Mr. Cruz? Are there
any other statements that any of your people want to make from any of the
hotels?
Mt. Cruz: No, Mr. Mayor. I think I covered it. Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, I would imagine that you ought to schedule further
meetings with the Hotel Management, either you or somebody representing the
Police Department.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Cruz, i don't travel as much as you, I'm sure because my
money isn't that long. But you would conceed that this is a general problem
all over this country, wouldn't you?
Mr. Cruz: I certainly would, sir.
Rev. Gibson: All right. So then we are not really singular, are we?
Mr. Cruz: Well, we selfishly think of the area that we are trying to sell and
Florida has always been known...
Rev. Gibson: I understand that part and this is my home so you know I want to
protect it. But you would conceed that we are not singular. Let me put it an-
other way. I don't think you understand. You would conceed that Miami isn't
the only City with this kind of a problem.
Mr. Cruz: No, sir. I already agreed that you're correct in that assutption.
Rev. Gibson: Right, I just wanted to make sure that's in the record too because
as I traveled even in foreign countries - I was in the Carribbean this summer.
You know the problems are the same all over.
Mr. Cruz: Yes, sir.
Rev. Gibson: Ant'. I don't want you to say that our Police Department is, you
know. I know you're not saying that but I just want to make sure that as we
think this thing through and talk about it..
Mr. Criz: Rev. Gibson, I think my implication was that something has to be
done whether it be decreasing of foot patrolmen or other measixe to be taken
to insure that our tourist industry will prosper and that we can increase
it.
Rev. Gibson: I follow that, sir. I just wanted to make sure that all of this
was up there.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Cruz, I think, Mr. Andrews, the important thing as I see it
out of what Mr. Cruz has said is that again it is a community relations thing.
I think that if a tax payer and a purveyor of jobs; like you're talking about
the Everglades Hotel.
Mr. Cruz: One of them, yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: That was one of the.. If the manager of that hotel calls the
Police Department he ought to be given proper answers. Now whether or not he
is or is not I don't know. He says that they called up on these 16 cases and
they do not know where they stand and again, this, I parallel this to Mrs. Greer's
testimony this morning when she was calling for 5 hours and she was unable to
get a report as to where this thing stood. It's a question of communications.
Now, I unfortunately had subpoenaed two ladies that work in communications in
the Police Department and unfortunately they've sent word that they do not want
to testify and they're rather concerned and worried. But the statements that
they made in my office, it was either yesterday or the day before, certainly
were very indicative of a complete lack of discipline and communication within
NOV -61974
that particular section of the Police Department. One of the things that I've
had a lot of complaints about personally in the last few weeks is that there is
nobody who can answer in Spanish at this point. And as you know with SO% of
Out population being Spanish speaking obviously you're going to get some calls
in Spanish. And it seems kind of incredible that we would not have any Spanish
speaking personnel on those phones at all times. Would you look into that,
please. Any other questions of Mr. Cruz? All right, thank you. Mr. Charles
`yerschoor... No, I'm sorry, Mr. Bruce Hammersley. Excuse me.
Mr. Silver: Sir, would you please state your name and address.
Mr. Bruce Hammersley (duly sworn): My name is Bruce Hammersley and I reside at
7711 S.W. 132 Avenue.
Mr. Silver: Are you, sir, employed?
Mr. Hammersley: Yes, I am by the State of Florida and I am a faculty member of
the Criminal Justice Program at Florida International University.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir, do you have a statement you wish to make today?
Mr. Hammersley: In line with the concern that was stated at the very beginning
of this session this morning I too am interested in searching out the prerequisites
of justice which in fact have been related to us in truth. And if in fact that
purpose is to be served, if in fact you are looking truth.then possibly there
may be merit in some of the concern that I share with you this afternoon. There
are many ways of looking at issues and problems. In the several hours, in fact,
that the specific concerns have been stated by many citizens and others I think
that really we have avoided a primary view of the organization which in fact you
are purported to be interer.Lod in. For the last three years as of January, this
coming January in my caper:i':y as a member of the Criminal Justice faculty at
Florida International University and as a member of the University faculty, my
feeling was that university personnel bury themselves in ivy covered towers and
in fact do not become involved in meaningful productive and constructive ways
in community service oriented efforts. With this in mind I set as a priority
goal becoming involved in those organizations that exhibited an interest in ident-
ifying their own problems and dealing with them at whatever cost or risk. The
City of Miami Police Department is the one organization that in fact demonstrated
this ability and this capacity and this interest as is evident today -tremendous
risk. AS a faculty member in Criminal Justice I suggest that looking at the
perspective of Criminal Justice relavent to law enforcement you have probably
the makings of the most unique productive capable law enforcement organization
possibly in the country and in fact that is the view of the issue that I think
should rise to the surface at this moment so that instead of looking at the
specific points that may lead to the destruction of this viable or potentially
viable organization you begin to look at the types of support that may be nec-
essary coming from this Commission to provide continued growth in positive and
constructive directions for that same organization. No other organization, and
I've worked with as many as 16 different law enforcement agencies within the
last three years spanning the East Coast of this country, no other organization
either local or as far north as the Massachusettes State Police Organization
has demonstrated the type of concern and committed itself to the type of risk
that in fact the Miami Police Department has engated in as a process during the
last two and a half years of affiliation with that same organization. For this
reason, I can no longer hide behind the ivy covered towers of Florida Internat-
ional University. I felt compelled to speak this afternoon in support of your
interest and in need to gain support on your part for looking at the organizat-
ion in terms of its strengths and looking at the types of things specifically
that that same organization has done not only to identify the problems which
you are indicating exist today but to look at all the other problems that that
very same organization has identified about itself and the types of efforts
that have been generated in the direction of resolving these problems. I think
that this truly is an attempt to search for the prerequisites of justice as
opposed to leading to the possible downfall of one of the most potentially
viable law enforcement organizations that I have experienced in the last A
years. I don't know that you want to hear what I have to say but I felt com-
pelled, in fact, to provide this type of demonstration for your purposes this
afternoon. I would be glad to respond to any questions that would lead to a
reviw of some of the specifics. I'm certain that you do need more complete
intensive insight and knowledge regarding some of those ventures that the City
of Miami Police Department has initiated which in fact are identifying problems
and working towards resolution of same.
NOV - 61974
Mayor Parrs: Mr. HaMMetaley, 1 want to CoMmend you for being here with us
end showing thiir in tart. 1 softie that you in the last tat, yeas hays been
writing with the Miami Police bepartment.
Mr. Halaleraleyt You sieeeMe correctly, Mr: Mayor.
Mayor Parte: In what capaoity have you been working in?
Mt. NaMMersleyt As a consultant and without the consultantship cloak or mantel
of forMality as an informal participant because of the types of things that this
organization demonstrated.
Mayor Ferre: How long have you been functioning as a consultant of the Miami
Police Department?
Mr. Hammersley: For slightly better than two years.
Mayor Ferre: Is the contractural relationship between you or is It between
FIU and the City of Miami?
Mr. Hammersley: it has been both. Florida International University for the
past 12 months has in fact not only negotiated but at this point is fulfilling
a contractural obligation to conduct a managemend development series or seminar..
Mayor Ferre: Are you a part of that?
Mr. Hammersley: Yes. In fact, I have managed two out of three phases.
Mayor Ferre: And your contractural relationship is also personal, you say.
Mr. Hammersley: How would you describe your use of the term "personal"?
Mayor Ferre: Well, you said it was both through FIU and individually.
Mr. Hammersley: If you're asking if in fact I have been paid for services
rendered, yes with an explanation. I think if you examine, audit the service
rendered you would find that the amount of time provided in the way of service
and the interest and the results probably outweigh whatever might have been
provided in financial
Mayor Ferret Now wait a minute, and I want to make it clear, I am in no way
questioning your integrity, your dedication or your intention in your service.
I just want to in my mind to establish exactly what your relationship and what
the report is between you and the department. And I'm just trying to get it
clear in my mind whether or not you have been paid for these services and whether
it was through FIU or directly. That's all. I mean no implication other than
just finding out..
Mr. Hammeraleys I apologize, I assumed that there was implication.
Mayor Ferre: No, I just want to find out what the relationship is. That's
all. I think we've asked people as they testified who they are and what they
do. Now I'm glad that you have made this statement. I want to repeat once
again I personally believe that there is a lot more positive than there is
negative but the problem is that on repeated occasions going back to a Grand
Jury report as I stated earlier today and again in this year's Grand Jury re-
port and in many other things that have come out that there are in my opinion
serious problems within the department that have to be addressed, that we have
to address ourselves to. Now my concern, and there is only one reason why we're
having this meeting today, and I apologize to Mr Andrews for this, but in fact
when he made his report he in effect did not go, in my opinion, into the depth
of the problems and all that we are attempting, at least what I'm attempting to
do is to show that there have been serious problems. And what I will attempt to
do is to show the discreptancies in the applications of rules and regulations
within the Department.
Mr. Hammersley: Mr. Mayor, may I pose a question in response? I wonder if
you can indicate what those problems are specifically. In fact the City of
a4iti Police Organization in its strategic planning processes has identified
as many as 128 problems and have in fact been working on those specific prob-
lems. This may not be of knowledge that is within your grasp at this point.
Mayor Ferre: I'm talking about the discipline situation which in my opinion
affects morale by the unequal application of rules and regulations within the
Department. That is what I'm talking about and I think it will specifically
78
NOV - 61974
• s
cafe out in the cotttrabt between the Cook and the Dixon Cases and how they've
been handled internally.
Mr. Hammersieyt Again I would like to respond. The questions of justice and
proof are very relative to the questions of discipline, control and communicat-
ions and those, I think probably provide the umbrella for which you're present-
ing your concern today. If in fact that is true then I would indicate one fur-
ther thing that more concern in a systematic way for addressing those problems
and dealing with them productively in a concrete fashion has been developed by
the City of Miami Police Organization within the last 215 years than by any other
Organization that I think either of us can name. The concerns that you have
demonstrated for the Cook and the Dixon Case and the concern for discipline
and control I think rele,te to managerial style and I'm suggesting that in fact
it might be very advantageous for this austere group, for the Commission to look
at the questions that relate to a body of knowledge that might be called
Organizational Analysis and Development. And if, in fact, that type of co,1-
cern reaches your attention you might find that the types of conflict that you
are now dealing with are expected when an organization takes the risk of in
fact bringing about change from within. And instead of in fact finding fault
the purpose of this meeting ought to be, and again this is my opinion, ought
to be to look at the nature of the conflict, to look at the managerial support
systems that are necessary and to provide some relationship which bridges that
gap between the Commission and the management of the organization which is re-
sponsible to the Manager and consequently to the Commission. If this occurs
then there is a constructive productive resolution to your problem as well as
to the City of Miami Police Department's problem. If it does not occur then
gentlemen, I t excuse me Commissioner Gordon, then you are leading to the pos-
sible destruction of, as I indicated, potentially one of the strongest most
effective law enforcement organizations in existence today in this country.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Hammersley, I appreciate your view. I agree with
some of it, I disagree with some. Our purpose here is not to expose every
single incident that has come across our desk. Today we've heard of 5 or 6
different cases. I've got literally, leterally, 10 feet of files stacked up
in different cases that we have not brought forward. I thought the importance
of today was to bring into testimony specific cases that I think one must conclude
by the results not by the theory of the management relationship but by the end
result that something is amiss.
Mr. Hammersley: I have evidenced that in fact those things have taken place.
Mayor Ferre: What has taken place?
Mr. Hammersley: "lat in fact those specific cases, not the Cook or the Dixon
Case but the overall problem areas have been addressed internally by the Depart-
ment and have in fact been dealt with effectively.
Mayor Ferre: She, but there you and I disagree because you are judging as an
insider from the inside and you therefore have better knowledge. I can only
judge as a citizen from the outside seeing the end results. And what I see
bothers me and that's why I'm bring it out. Certainly the 4 or 5 cases here
at best, at best raise some very pertinent questions.
Mr. Hammersley: Then possibly it is necessarily to create a bridge that con-
nects all of us so that we can get to the truth.
Mayor Ferre: Amen! Now that I'll go for and that's what I hope after we've
finished with this process and after we get the input of whatever experts Mr.
Andrews is going to bring to this Commission and we accept, after that is done
I hope that we will then be able to go shoulder to shoulder and arm to arm and
do that. But until we forthrightly stand up and with honesty and integrity
look straight forward and say, "This is the truth as we see it" then I don't
think that we can break that barrier because it's an eternal chain, from my
view point outside. From your view point inside you think that the problems
are being corrected. I don't see that so I think that I have to address my-
self to try to break the chain so that all of us will participate in the know-
ledge of what is going on or not going on. Now, once that happens - my intention,
ladies and gentlemen, and I hope, I'm sure it is the intention of everybody in
this room is not to destroy the City of Miami and it is not to destroy the City
of Miami Police Department because I have stated over and over again and I stated
it again when I ran for public office that without the City of Miami Fire Depart-
ment and without the Police Department there is no City of Miami. So I am totally
opposed to the transfer of the City of Miami to Metropolitan Dade County. Now
79
NOV •61974
the stat!!'Ment that t made two weeks ago as i've repeated a dozen times was
nothing more than what I think was a tactical move to stress the importance,
aft far as the Mayor was concerned and Iny concern that something had to be done
about this situation, and I was willing to go to that extreme because my
primary obligation ie not to the Miami Police Department and not to the City
of Miami but rather to the citizens of Miami. And if i found no other way
of correcting the situatibn I am, I was, am and will be silling to go to any
extreme to get this situation corrected. Now, I do not think in any way that
we have to go that far. I think that we can cSrrect it. I think we can do
it internally. I think the task is ahead of ua but I want to be very sure
that we recognize (1) that there is a serious problem (2) that we have to
address ourselves to it (3) that it does have solutions and we can do it
jointly and that's all.
Mr. Hammersley: I offer to respond to any questions if there appear to be
any.
Mrs. Gordon: Ask you to reiterate, there seems to be two points of view.
You're saying, Mr. Hammersley that whatever problems they're being corrected.
The Mayor says that he doesn't think that they are because he doesn't know
that they are. Is there any information that can be made available to him
that could convince him that they are being corrected that might be helpful
to all of us?
Mayor Ferre: Mrs. Gordon, that's exactly what we asked the Manager to bring
before us 4 months ago. And in his report of two weeks ago the answers, with
all due respects to him were inocuous. They did not respond to the heart and
to the nut of the matter. And therefore, I can only conclude and use my judge-
ment based on the end results, the tangible result. If I'm selling a product
it is not how the product is being manufactured it is how the consumer accepts
it. And if the soap gives you an itch after you wash then the soap is no good
no matter how good the factory is.
Mrs. Gordon: Are you aware of what the Manager's response was the Mayor is
referring to?
Mr. Hammersley: No, I'm not.
Mayor Ferret We're not looking to you for answers, we're looking to the Manager
for answers.
Mrs. Gordon: Yes, but Maurice, with all due respects and I'm not taking sides
on this; I'm here to listen as you are. Mr. Hammersley is the first person
that has come up rnd said we've got anything at all in there that is good and
everybody here today so far has said everything else is bad. Pardon me?
INAUDIBLE
Mr. Hammersley: Are you interested in re:eiving documentation that shows
INAUDIBLE
Mrs. Gordon: Yes, I think we're interested.
Mr. Hammersley: I would like it to be know that this is only one small indicator
that there are many others that are available to you. However, I think that this
is the first time that the Commission has indicated that they wanted this type of
documentation.
Mayor Ferret I think that this Commission has for a year, at least on a dozen
occasions that I've heard been asking for information as to what has been going
on in the Police Department.
Mr. Hammersley: If the other Commissioners are interested in the same document
I'll make sure that you receive them before 5 O'Clock today.
Rev. Gibson: Sir, the only way that I could be intelligent, you see I don't want
the Mayor to get all the knowledge - you understand what I mean.
Mr. Hammersley: I can appreciate that, Reverend Gibson.
Rev. Gibson: Ok, so please accord us the same priviledge and opportunity.
Mr. Hammersley: Even before 5 O'Clock.
80
NOV - 61374
Rev. Gibson: Well, t'il settle for an hour later than S O'Clock.
Mayor Ferrel is this your document, Mr. Hammersley? Did you work on thisP
Mr. Rammersleys it is the City of Miami's document. I was one of many who
worked on it. the City of Miami Police personnel worked on it and created
it.
Mayor Ferre: Is this an internal document in your opinion?
Mr. Hammersley: It is internal in the sense that the problems identified
and the means of dealing with them are internal and that the personnel who
actually worked on the process for the most part identifying their problems
and generating a degree of indication of their committment were also mem-
bers throughout the organization.
Mayor Ferree In other words this is a document created mostly by members of
FIO and the Miami Police Department?
Mr. Hammersley: That is partially correct; there were members of the general
community involved, the media was involved to an extensive degree members of
other institutions such as Florida Atlantic University, the Criminal Justice
Institute, etc. Many members were involved. In fact, in the program that is
indicated herein as one small significant venture there were ;92 people repre-
senting the full spectrum of involvement both within and representing outside
elements.
Mayor Ferre: All right, thank you, sir.
Mrs. Gordon: Do you happen to have a summary of that document?
Mr. Hammersley: I would like to de-emphasize the importance of this document.
This is only one of many that might shed some light on the concern for what
the City of Miami Police Department is actually doing about its problems.
There are many other documents that in fact support the work the effort and
the time and the energies that have been expended.
Mrs. Gordon: That are personal knowledge of yours?
Mr. Hammersley: Yee.
Mrs. Gordon: Could you summarize it, would you be willing to give us a summary?
Because we're not going to finish our work today. It is very obvious ....
Mr. Hammersley: Commissioner Gordon, I can't do it for anybody other than
Bruce Hammersley.
Mrs. Gordon: Was Bruce Hammersley interested?
Mr. Hammersley: Yes, I am, I think I've demonstrated that this afternoon. I
don't know whether I'll have a job when I go back to the university.
Mrs. Gordon: Could we ask you if there was at least a list that you could
furnish us with some brief description of each one that we then if any of us
are interested in searching this matter further we would be able to search it?
Mr. Hammersley: One of the documents that I could indicate without too much
difficulty would be the SRI working papers.
Mrs. Gordon: We have that.
Mr. Hammersley: And other documents would relate to the work of people like
Dr. Arnold Lieber who has worked both professionally, personally and otherwise
in an effort to help in the identification of problem and in an effort to find
resolution to those problems. There are others who I might name but I would
rather that they speak for thelmselves.
Mrs. Gordon: All right. If needed, you're willing to be available for further
consultations.
Mr. Hammersley: Certainly.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you very much, are there any other questions of Mr. Hammersley?
APPLAUSE
81
NOV - 61974
Mayor Nitre* tab sit, t cannit recognise you at this time. can the prblic
have the doceent, that is to the adeinisttation. Mt Andrews will.iave
to d cide that.
XNAUbtBt
Mr. Lloyd: I can tell you what the law requires if you like. This is a
pubiio document. it can be available at the City Manager's Office according
to law and pages can be copied for you at a cost... or it can be available
at the Clerk's Office to look at.
Mayor Ferree All right, thank you, sir.
Mr. Wammeraleyt Thank you for the opportunity to be heard.
Mayor Ferre: The next speaker, Emilio Llopez and Molina.
Mr. Silver: Mr. Clerk, will you swear the witnesses in, please. Sir, would
you please state your name and address.
Mr. Jose Molina (duly sworn). My name is Jose Molina. I am a community organ-
izer. I am a person for Christian Community Service Agency at 3637 N.E. 1
Avenue.
Mr. Silver: What is your occupation, sir?
Mr. Molina: Community organizer.
Mr. Silver: Would the other gentleman please state his name and address.
Mr. Emilio Llopez(duly sworn): My name is Emilio Llopez, I am the Director of
Clinics Boriquen also involved in the community in organizing, I live in
10621 N.W. 5th Avenue.
Mr. Silver: All right, Mr. Molina, do you have a statement that you desire to
make?
Mrs. Gordon: Organizing what?
Mr. Llopez: You want me to tell you? I have helped organize Puerto Rican
Community, I helped organize the Dominican Community, some groups. I also am
helping right now organize a clinic in the Edison Little River. I am involved
in a lot of groups in the community.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok.
Mayor Ferre: And is the executive director of a clinic which has a grant from
the federal government which is now functioning.
Mrs. Gordon: I know about that because he came before us one time when they
couldn't get their C.O.
Mr. Llopez: Yes, that is a point that I would like to bring later on.
Mayor Ferre: Not today, please.
Mr. Silver: Mr. Molina, do you have a statement that you desire to make?
Mr. Molina: Yes, I will.
Mr. Silver: Ok, please proceed.
Mr. Molina: Honorable Mayor Ferre, City Commissioners, dear friends, I person-
ally,never had any problems with the police personally. Even though as a com-
munity worker among the Puerto Rican population of the Wyndwood area in the span
of 6 years I have been involved in several cases in which individuals and families
were victims of police brutality. In several opportunities I personally took
the victims to the Internal Review of the Police Department to file a formal com-
plaint. This is my experience: In some of the cases the victim's story was
recorded on a tape recorder. In other cases...
Mayor !errs: I'm sorry, I didn't understand all of that. In several cases
they were what?
82 NOV - 61974
Mr. Molina: Ok► this happened, in some of the cases the story of the victim
was recorded and in other cases the officer in charge of the office took some
notes. In other casts regardless to my protest nobody took any notes, they
just listened to us. Later, in most of the cases no investigation took place
at least to our knowledge. to some of the cases neither the victim nor myself
teceived any explanation at all. A very very few cases we have received what
We wdould qualify as a very poor explanation. Let me mention a few cases in
which I was involved as a community worker. Emilio was also involved with me
as a community leader. In some cases I was in the front, in some cases I was
in the back.
Case #1, a Puerto Rican bus boy was driving back home from Miami Beach.
He was stopped and taken to jail by a Miami Police officer. When he got out
of the jail several items had disappeared from his car. He complaine&, nr
explanation.
Case #2, a young Puerto Rican mechanic was driving in a small truck. .i'
made a traffic violation, he was ordered to stop, he speeded, several units
were called in to the scene. They put 11 bullets in his car. The explanation
put out was that he tried to kill the officers. The judge gave him two years
in prison.
Case #3. A young man from Nicaragua got indirectly involved in a fight
in a local bar. He was taken to Miami Police Building and while he was wait-
ing for finger prints and the rest he sad to the arresting officer that he
was extremely thirsty. He received no answer from them. Later he saw another
arrested person having sod& from the vending machine. He tried to get one
and he was hit by the officer against the floor. We filed a :acnplaint again
before the Internal Review of the Miami Police. We hever received any answer.
Case #4. The police was looking for someone. They assumed that the man
was hiding in a house of a Puerto Rican Family. Without calling, without show-
ing any paper, any warrant, they walked into the back yard of the house. A
dog that was chained got irritated and started barking. One of the officers
shot the dog. The dog was taken to the humane society by the officers for
treatment. The officers involved in the case tole the family not to worry
about the bill for the treatment of the dog that they were going to take care
of it. The bill never was paid. The family did not have the money to pay for
the bill and they lost their dog. We filed again the complaint. The explan-
ation was that the officer shot the dog because the dog had tried to bite the
officer and that was the end of the case.
Case #5. A Puerto Rican youngster, 90 pounds, 17 years old was driving
without a license. He was stopped by an officer who had been harrassing the
family before. The arresting officer called another unit in his help. Three
police officers beat the youngster who was treated at Jackson Memorial Hospital.
The boy was taken to court. We filed the usual complaints. We even had the
free services of a private lawyer. The kid was accused of striking the officers
and he was pronounced guilty. Polygraph tests were administered to the police
officers and to the kid. We never knew the results. The officer was trans-
ferred to another area.
Mayor Ferre: How long ago was this case?
Mr. Molina: Maybe one year ago. These people are ready to witness, in case.
This is the last case and I will finish with that.
Case #6. Very fresh, just waiting for investigation. This is the case,
the most recent of a Puerto Rican family who owns a very small bar restaurant
in Northwest Miami on 36 Street between second and third avenues. One night,
sometime in June, one night around 8 O'Clock two officers walked into the place
saying that the music was too loud. One young lady, the only English speaking
tried to talk to explain the situation. She was not allowed to do so. She
insisted. When she insisted her arm was twisted and she spent part of the
night in jail. The same officers came back around 10 O'Clock that same night
and the officers came with their crime unit. They conducted a search that
lasted around one and a half hours. For us, that was unnecessary harrassment.
The only two things they found wrong there were that the operating license was
not properly displayed and (2) that several garbage cans were sitting on the
sidewalk. Later, the owner's daughter was accused in court of assault and
battery, disorderly conduct and other crimes. The young lady besides being
arrested was fined with $150. Actually the owners received a notification to
appear in court for the charges of disorderly conduct, health and sanitation
violations. In this case we were so frustrated about Internal Review that we
did not file any complaint but we asked our friends at Community Relations
Board at the Public Relations Department of Miami Police to help us and the
only explanation we received through our friends in the Public Relations Depart-
ment was that the owner did not have a license to operate after 7 O'Clock.
For us, the explanation was simply naive because they have a license to operate
83
until Mdnight Saturdays and Sundays and when the incident took place was a
Saturday. After my testimony I would like two simple statements. (1) Police
abuses have been taking place in the Wyndwood neighborhood area in the lower
northwest Miami and (2) that the Internal Review Department of Miami Police
has not been responsive to our complaints. Thank you very much.
Mayer Ferret All right, thank you. Now Mr. Llopez.
Mr. Emilio Llopez (duly sworn): Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, members of the
public, there is no question in my mind that the policemen in general should
be commended for the difficult and the work. This is a hard job. We realize
that and many of us would not like to have that job. We recognize that. How-
ever, there have been serious problems in the area of police abuse and you
heard Mr. Molina's statements and we can fill half of this room with many
cases similar to that. It is a shame that it took the case of Mr. Cook to
bring out in the open what we have been saying for many years. I remember
about two years ago I spoke up for the Puerto Rican community in front of
the Community Relations Board Forum. We gave them some of the same problems
that we are discussing in here today. The presentation was completely ignored.
At that time I remember we asked for a civilian review board to help in these
problems. We still feel that a board of this nature is needed. I know that
there is enough brain power in this community to come with a realistic plan
to form such a board. Second, I recommend that a formation of some kind of
public relation group interact with the Police Department should be established
in a regular basis and that all members of all communities and minority com-
munity be involved actively. And also I recommend there should be an affirm-
ative program for recruiting of policemen of minority groups. And that is my
basic statement. If you have any questions in relation to the other problems
of what we have to say, we're open.
Mayor Ferre: Now Mr. Molina, Mr. Llopez, are there any questions from the
Commission? You see, what I want to say is that we have drawers full of
reviews and studies from SRI'and with all due respects to Commissioner Rose
Gordon there is no way that we can cover the sky with our hands. And when
there are so many cases that come up, if one hundredth of them are correct,
if out of a hundred one happens to be right, if there is some substance in
one case out of a hundred, then my friends there is room for concern. And
I'm saying that all of the professors from FIU and from Stanford Research
and from Berkley and Harvard and all of the universities of these United
States are not going to in and of and by themselves correct the situation
because if books could correct the problems that we have in this community
we wouldn't have any problems. The problems have to be addressed with courage
and with reality. Now I'm not saying that everybody is to blame on this.
What I am saying is very simply there is ei problem and .pou cannot hide it
with "A New Day is Dawning" and a report of a "Module One, MMPD FIU Manage-
ment Development Project" or with the many dozens of other books and studies
that we have because as I've said, and now I'm going to repeat what Commis-
sioner Plummer is always saying about computers; the computer doesn't solve
the problem. The computer only assists in solving the problem. It is the
human beings that solve the problem. That's what is involved and I think we've
got to, the reason for all of this is not that we're trying to castegate the
Miami Police Department, not that we're trying to just bring out the bad things
that happen but the fact that there are a few things that must be brought to
light because until WE truthfully stand up and recognize and say there is a
problem we're not going to get to the heart of solving it.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, just for those that might want to know, the gentleman
from Channel 2 asked that it he announced for any of those who wished they had
taped all day and this would be on this evening starting at & O'Clock if anybody
wanted to see the program.
Mayor Ferre: I've seen it once, I don't want to see it twice.
Mr. Plummer: Maybe it might do us good to sit on the other side and look at
what goes on up here.
Mayor Ferre; All right, the next speaker will be Mr. Otis Davis.
Mr. Plummer: This is the final speaker of the day.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Otis Davis and I don't know who else he's going to have in his
group. A11 right, Mr. Davis.
84
Nov - 6 1974
Mr. Si1Ver: mar the witness, pieaee. Mr. Davis, would you state your
nate and address please.
Mr. Otis Davie: Otis Davis, address is 161 N.W. 56 Street.
Mr. Silver: By whom are you employed, sir?
Mt. Davis: City of Miami.
Mr. Silver: Are you currently employeed by the City of Miami, sir?
Mr. Davis: Yes, I am.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir, let me advise you also the same as I advised
Sergeant Zenos before that any information you give in the answers to the
questions by this committee may be the subject of a discplinary proceding
by the Civil Service Board if such facts indicate a violation of the Civil
Service Rules. All right, sir.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Davis, let me ask before you get into making
testimony, you had a group of people that you advised me may want to m..ke a
statement, Franklin Cohen, Thomas Fender, Daniel Bailey, Nathaniel Veai,
Clarence Dixon, Carl Duncan and Eddie Mitchel. Are they here and do they
want to make a statement With you or will you speak for the group?
Mr. Davis: Mr. Mayor, I'll speak for the whole group. However, I do have an
honorary member who is an honorary group, Public Pulse who will be just one
member speaking.
Mayor Ferre: Who is that?
Mr. Davis: Mr. Miller Dawkins. I'll speak for the entire group.
Mr. Silver: What group, sir, is that that you're representinc, please?
Mr. Davis: That is the Miami Community Police Benevolent Association.
Mr. Silver: Ok, sir, please proceed.
H::. Davis: I'm president of that organization and have been for some time.
I'm a 16 year veteran of the Police Department. I'm also a homocide investi-
gator at the City of Miami Police Department. Some of the concerns that I
would like to bring to the attention I realize that a lot of them are adminis-
trative situations and they should be carried through administration type sit-
uations. However, we have taken scxne of these things to the administration and
have not been heard and I feel like this point hare we need to air or assist
some of the things we think is relavent to our Police Department. I've done
quite a bit of traveling around the country and I've visited other Police
Departments in the different places I've gone. And I'll say this for our Police
Department, I think we have one if the better police departments anywhere.
However, there are things that need to be irradicated, there are things that
need to be dealt with. Being here 16 years I've learned from very early times
that there are things that have been changed. I've seen some great changes
within the Police Department since I've been here. But here again I say tht2re
are some things that need to be changed and that need to be dealt with because
we are here as black policemen we are very concerned about our community and
there are things within the Police Department that we think need to be irradi-
cated. One of the things I would like to speak on is that we're talking about
doing away with the dual system of the discipline of black and white officers.
And to give you an illustration of what I'm saying here, I do have occasion, I
have a knowledge of an officer who was fired for frivolous type situation where
he had a domestic situation and consequently this man was fired as a result of
that. However, on a recent case I see where an officer who was talking about
a white officer who beat another black officer and yet he was only administered
a six-month suspension.
Mayor Ferre: Have you ever talked to the manager about this? Have you given
and submitted these names?
Mr. Davis: Yes, I have. I've talked with the Chief and I've also talked.
On another occasion where we had a member of the Police Department who was a
member also former president of the organization was reprimanded for giving a
statement to the press.
NOV -61974
Mayor Fare: Are you talking about now Officer Carl Duncan?
Mr. Davis: No, sir. I'm talking about Sergeant Dan Bailey. He was formerly
the president of the organization. However on other occasions, other members
of the Policy Department who are heads of other organizations have given press
information and has not been reprimanded. And to me and to other members of
the Police Department, black members this is unfair and that is what I mean
about dual type of punishment for one person and not for the other. One of
the other ttlings we are talking about is the black, needs of black supervisors
and radio patrol. At this t.me we don't have very many blacks in radio patrol
who could be supervisor on the street out here. Another need we see is a black
police officer in a black community during the peak crime areas. We recognize
the fact that a lot of crimes committed like black committing crimes against
other blacks. We're not discounting this fact but we do feel that we do need
to have some black police officers who are in that particular area doing tits
particular crime peak area to deal with this kind of problem. Also we do ,>>y
several federal grants which have been granted to the City of Miami. Some of
these grants don't have any blacks in it at all and that's one of the guidelines,
that's one of the LEAA guidelines was to have some black in there, to put some
black into the particular grants. At the beginning of these grants some of
these grants, we have no black input as to how the grant is going to be dealt
with. And here is an area I think we do need to realistic look at it and see
if it's going to deal with black people in that nature some black input should
be put into it. Also we checked and we found out the LEAA guidelines are not
being followed. For instance we have a public service aid. The public ser-
vice aid the emphasis was placed on the minority being put into this particular
category. In checking with this public service aid we find that this was not
done. In fact the minority in this particular grant is the minority on the
Police Department. Another are of concern that we felt that utilize the ex-
perience of older policemen. We find that... statistics within 10 years a
policeman would have reached his maximum as far as on the street is concerned.
We do have some black policemen who have been on the department longer, some
18 years and in my opinion and some of the other members opinion if a man is
out there 18 years he is almost lost his usefulness as far as radio patrol is
concerned. But there are other areas that you could put this man in and prob-
ably get same type of input in cther areas where he would be more affective
because most of the time at this age with 18 years on he'e just waiting for
retirment. He's not trying to do anything constructive maybe in the area out
there. But with 18 years veteran you've got there you certainly could utilize
him in other areas which would probably enhance him doing something for the
department. There are other areas which would not require promotion. Now
for some reason this man might not have the ability to pass examinations to
become sergeant or lieutenant or what have you but he certainly has the exper-
ience of 18 years that you can utilize in other areas as police investigators
and that kind of thing. We're talking about appointing a police chief within
the ranks and I don't think we have any qualms about that. There are areas
there that our opinion that we feel like that maybe it could come within the
ranks. But we do have such a man and even though he is black we feel like he
is qualified in order to become Chief of Police. That is Major Leroy Smith.
This man without a doubt in my mind academic wise has two degrees. Also, he
took a police chief test when the former chief was being selected and out of
the nation he came in 16 out of a about 400. So I'm saying this man is well
qualified to become chief. So we're looking in house and I think this man cer-
tainly should be given some consideration as far as our police chief is concerned.
Also we another concern is the black supervisor by black policemen in the admin-
istration. And by this I mean that there are some supervisors who are black
and some parts of the administration could be replaced by other black policemen
who are out on the street. I stress again that some of the black supervisors
need to be out in the street there at supervisor capacity. Internal security
is another stickler for us and here again I believe they are good people, they
do a good job, they try. But here again for all intent and purpose I think
Internal Security should be placed away from the police station possibly placed
in the City Manager's Office and the people that goes into security should be
screened by either the Commission or the City Manager. Also, it should be
mandatory that a complaintant receive a copy of the investigator report. In
most cases never done. Whether the complaintant makes a complaint but he never
hears the end result of what is going on. I think we owe it to the public to
give them kind of thing - should be mandatory to get this kind of report after
he makes a complaint. One of the things we,are concerned about is that we
filed a suit against the City some years ago out of necessity and we do have a
court order which has certain stipulations in there and it has a mandate of
trying to bring about changes within the Police Department and trying to bring
blacks up into the Police Department into the proportion of the population.
86
NOV - 61974
This order is after a year old and to this day this order has not been imple-
mented. Our great concern for this is it's a five year thing but if we don't
start somewhere I wonder where we're going to use the five years to get this
thing implemented. To me, 1 think it is fair, I think it is unfair, I don't
think it is right to make us wait any longer. We've waited 30 years and 30
years is a long time to wait on anything. One of the other things I spoke
about and as I said before, this is an administrative order of recruitment.
We got things such as non related, job related things on our tests which I
feel like it should not be there. Swimming is one of the things. There is
very little need for swimming if anybody can ever prove to me that swimming
is a great criteria for becoming an applicant for policeman I would like to
see it. And this an area that is real cute when we're talking about blacks
going on the Police Department because a lot of blacks don't swim. A lot of
blacks never have a Chance to swim. So I'm saying this is an area here, this
is not a priority area. This is an area which could be utilized for some 1 ther
thing. Last but not least, this is an area that is very dear to me and tha'- is
black and white officers by sensitized to working in ghetto areas. There are
a lot of social areas that we as policemen can not do anything about. These
are things out of our hands. We cannot do anything for some of the social
that's within the ghetto. But certainly we can have a better understand-
ing as to what the make up of these people are and try to work along that line
and try to ease some of the tension that's out there. Those areas should be
covered by other people, social workers and what not. But I think if we really
look at what is happening we address ourselves to this problem I feel like we
could do a better job as police officers by understanding people in the ghetto
area. Thank you, Commissioners and Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: All right.
Mr. Silver: Sir, would you be sworn in, please. Would you please state your
name and address, sir.
Mr. Miller Dawkins: Miller Dawkins, 1385 N.W. 50 Street, City of Miami.
Mr. Silver: Axe you employed by the City of Miami, sir?
Mr. Dawkins: No, I'm not. I'm employed by Miami Dade North Campus, nTt FIU.
Mr. Silver: What is your capacity at that campus, sir?
Mr. Dawkins: I am the Director of the M.L.K. Educational Development Center.
Mr. Silver: And how long have you served in that capacity?
Mr. Dawkins: About 4 years.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir, do you have a statement that you desire to make?
Mr. Dawkins: Yes.
Mr. Silver: Please proceed.
Mr. Dawkins: Public Pulse is here in support of the black officers. The only
reason we're here is that we know within ourselves that these men are the best
there is. We also feel that the Miami Police Department is wonderful. What
my City Manager stated in his report, and if I'm in error I stand corrected,
that in the Miami City Police Department, "there was about 6% that were bad".
At that time Mr. J.L. Plummer questioned him, "Are you saying 6% bad?" And
the City Manager said, "That's a magical number that I'm just working with."
So our primary concern then is with the 6% not with the entire Miami Police
Department. You see these fellows that you see in here - take your hats off
to them. They are abused by their fellow men, they are abused by their country-
men and their neighbors. Father Gibson can tell you. You jumped up the other
day and you gave us a sacrificial lamb, Chief Garmire gone. This gentleman
came to the City of Miami he made white policemen who had been accustomed under
Chief Hedley to treating niggers as they were supposed to be treated and keep
them in their place. He made them put shotguns in the trunk of their cars
and along came the rebellion. My good brother from FIU said changes from with-
in. Where is he? These were changes from within, revolutionary changes. And
the system rebelled. Chief Garmire became just a symbol. Ask anybody in here
they'll tell you. Now you fired him. He's gone. But bear in mind Chief
Garmire did not kick Mr. Dixon's eye out. Chief Garmire did not beat Cook. In
fact, Chief Garmire participated in none of the incidents of which my friend
87
Nov • 61974
Mt. Molina spoke about. They were done by this 6% that the City Manager was
talking about. So I am here to say that Public Pulse is putting the City Com-
mission on charge - It is your responsibility now to clean th:s up. It is not
Mr. Andrews responsibility, it?* not the new chief whoever he might be. Although
I have to disagree with Mr. Otis Davis, I too feel that there is not another man
sore qualified than Mr. Leroy Smith but to put him in the slot he would be in the
eame.boat that Mr. Garmire was in. When they desired they would bypass him and
go some place else and he would have to leave. So what I'm saying to you is the
system must be changed. I don't care how you change it. - I'm charging you with
that responsibility. pow, people are saying all policemen are bad. We all read
in the papers Sunday where a policeman rushed into a burning building and rescued
a person. And I doubt seriously if anyone in here would ask him if he had any
concern for that person's color that he was concerned. All he knew was he had
a duty to do and that's what he did. The other complait that Public Pulse has
is this: Otis Davis spoke out. Again keep the nigger in his place has beet
reprisals. This man has been investigated. Some officer, according to tho
press stated that he threw down a gun. If this is true then I would like the
Commission to go on record stating that this gentleman should be punished. He
either lied at the original investigation or he lied when he said he threw the
gun down. And if it is proven that a gun was thrown down since t.ey could very
easily open Otis Davis' case why can't they reopen all of the casu.s where it
was said that there were throw downs and if it is proven somebody go to jail?
Now my good Commissioners up there say to me let's go outside and get a con-
sultant firm and have them come in and do the job; that is a joke. I will
start with your first commissioned investigation that I'm concerned with. You
commissioned Commissioner Plummer and an Edward Graham to do a study. They
went to the University of Miami, they came back with a study completed which
said hire Major etc., etc. What happened? Nothingt I have here in my hand
$30,000. Commissioner Gibson said this morning Booz Allen Report. Here is a
$30,000 rip off. $30,000 of tax funds were spent and not a damned thing has
been implemented. Ok, now you tell me again let's go out and hire another con-
sultant firm, spend more tax dollars and do what? The only thing I can say to
you is you are charged with this responsibility. Public Pulse supports all oyE
the policemen who want a dedicated, they want to do a job and we despise those
who commit the kind of acts and brutality that were brought here this morning.
APPLAUSE
Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Dawkins.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Dawkins, may I just clarify just a small point? In the
recommendations of the Manager this morning the foundation gets their funding
from a private source. The Police Foundation is funded by the Ford Foundation.
It wouldn't cost the taxpayers any funds but what they do is they have a dif-
ferent kind of procedure. They may not accept us as a project. If they did
we would be fortunate.
Mr. Dawkins: I agree with you Commissioner Gordon, 100% but if you will check
as Mr. Davis said, and I don't have to tell the Commission, there are millions
of dollars in LEAA grant funds that have been put in here that could have very
easily had they been used correctly eliminated these problems that we have now.
Mayor Ferre: You know, I haven't submitted it into the record but I will
eventually, the many citizens' complaints that we have over this year received.
We're not talking about one. Here is one that came to us recently and there's
just page after page about complaints. We the undersigned demand immediate
action be taken to alleviate the harrassment, solicitation of money and threaten-
ed assaults of crimes upon the shoppers and residents and businessmen of down-
town Miami. Now this is one side of it. This is the panhandlers and the
derelict element that's creating some of the problem. The other side we get
another petition here from the people of the northeast part of town saying
that they're very concerned about the activity of not prostitution but the
crime that that brings. We have another petition from another group and it just
goes on and on. It isn't one person that is crying out. This isn't Otis Davis.
It isn't the blacks. It isn't the Cubans. There are a lot of people that are
involved and there's enough of this that we just can't hide behind reports and
putting blames on one guy. We've got to have the courage of our convictions
to address all of the problems and that means the good and the bad and if we've
got to get tougher on some sides; you know, and maybe the Latin community may
not like some of the solutions and the blacks may not like some of the solut-
ions. But we've got to address the full spectrum of problems and we've got to
do it here. Now I'm all for studies and I think the Commission's move this
morning is a good one. I think something positive will come out of it. But we
4 U
cannot shirk our responsibility. This to Me is the-nutiber one situation con-
fronting this City of Miami: Paul, unless we solve this there's no use talk-
ing about the Orange Bowl or parks or all of these wonderful things that we
want to do. We've got to address ourselves to this problem. Nov I know that
there are an awful lot of guys on the Department that are jus; angry as hell
at me. They think that I'm out on a witch hunt or a persecution of some kind
or that I'm out trying to castegate a lot of people or trying to create havoc
or that I'm out on a political drive of some kind. I'm not running for anything
except Mayor of Miami and that is a public committment I make, for a long time.
I have no intentions of running for congress, for the governor's office, for
U.S. Senate, for any other office. I have a job to do, I want to do it. I
sincerely want to do it. I Want to see this thing worked out. I don't want
to do it negatively. I don't want to do it destructively. I want, but I think
it is important that we put the can opener to the can, open it up and let all
the worms whatever they are out, clean it out and start over again if we ha•e
to. I think it can be done but I think we've got to get away from trying to
put off these problems, put them off and put them off and not trying to face
some of these things head on. •
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I'm assaming by that statement that we are concluded
hearing fro witnesses today. Mr. Mayor, I do believe that some good and some-
thing positive can be done immediately. And I don't know if I'm within the
realm of this special type of investigative thing but I won't make it in the
form of a motion; the one thing that has come across very very clear to me
here today and also came across very clear on two different occasions when I
visited the Internal Security Office to read different files, I am hopeful
that the Manager will concur with my thinking and come back here tomorrow
during our Commission Meeting with two positive steps that he will implement
tomorrow - not after this study is done. (1) Internal Security does not have
the physical facilities to operate in. (2) Without question they are under-
manned. Mr. Mayor, I don't believe in good faith, Mr. Andrews, that we can
wait another 90 or 120 days to give Major Mc Laughlin the personnel and the
space that he needs to do his job. I know it was said not in jest because it
was true by one member as I sat there and read files: that with all of this
stuff that was going on, God help them if they got one complaint because they
didn't have the time to look into it because they were preparing all of these
files for you, for the Commission and for everyone else that had requested.
I am hopeful, Mr. Manager that tomorrow that you can come back before this
Commission and tell us that you are going to give them the needed space and
that you are going to give them additional personnel. Now I don't know whether
you need a motion to that affect or if you want to speak to it or what but
there is no question in my mind it must be done and it must be done now.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, I'm of this conviction
but I don't want you to put me in a position where I have to come back tomorrow
which is another long evening for me and another long Commission Meeting day.
I will make this commitment to you that within the next few days, certainly by
over this weekend that I will be able to do something positive.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Andrews, I've never put you across a barrel yet but I'll look
for the memo on Tuesday as to what you did. Fine, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Now ladies and gentlemen, there was one other item that I did,
and I'm not going to pursue it today other than to tell the Manager. In 1969
Mr. Otis Davis was involved in an accident as declared by the course and Mr. John
Lloyd was the attorney for the City who tried the case. As I recall Mr. Lloyd
telling me the bullet that killed the man was a ricochet bullet and the bullist-
ics report confirmed that. Now recently the Otis Davis case of 1969 has been
requested to be opened. As a matter of fact there was a letter written to the
States Attorney's Office and I think a phone call made to the Law Department
by Sergeant Henley, I think was the name... By Sergeant Ronald Hanley request-
ing information from your files. I would since it is obviously now the impli-
cations of this racial confrontation has been rather open, I think it is import-
ant for you and your office to get into that matter and there may be cause for
this, I don't know. But I would like to know who ordered the investigation and
why.
Mr. Andrews: May I interrupt you, Mr. Mayor. I think that is import-
ant enough with all these, people in the audience here that we should address that
now at least in a few sentences and Major Mc Laughlin can come up here and ex-
plain to you the circumstances that led to this and I think it will clear the
air. We're as interested in making sure that officer Davis is protected as much
89
as We are in saving justice being carried out. And rather than have some
of the rueorn that were circulating within the Department that cast doubt
on bib...
mayor Ferrel 1 think that is very good. It j'ast seems strange that all
of a sudden thsit Otis Davis becomes an activist in this thing and at the
very saes tithe a case that was closed 6 years ago is all of a sudden opened
again.
Mr. Silver: Would you swear the witnesses in, please. Would you please
state your name and address, please.
Major A. J. NC Laughlin: A. J. Mc Laughlin, 1635 S.W. 84 Avenue, Miami.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir, are you employed by the City of Miami?
Major Mc Laughlin: I am
Mr. Silver: And in what capacity, sir?
Major Mc Laughlin: I'm a Major of Police.
Mr. Silver: All right, sir, let me advise you that any information that you
may give here today in answer to the questions by the Committee may be the
subject of a disciplinary proceding by the Civil Service Board if such facts
indicate a violation of the Civil Service Rules. A11 right, sir. Mr. Chair-
man, do you have a statement Mr. Mayor, do you wish to inquire?
Mr. Andrews: I think the important thing is for the Major to express to you
the circumstances under which this was brought to the surface once again. I
think if you permit him to speak freely for just a few moments to explain the
circumstances then you can ask questions if you wish.
Major Mc Laughlin: (1) Sergeant Hanley merely picked this report up in the Law
Department at a request of two gentlemen who are making this investigation. So
I would like to get that clear from the start. Sergeant Hanley has no'hing to do
with other than he went to Mr. Lloyd's office, returned this to the two men who
are assigned to this investigation. Sometime, and I must say that I was in the
hospital, I was home recuperating from an operation, I was not at the station
when this occured. But I was told and I am reasonably certain of the informat-
ion that Captain Dougherty and Lieutenant Murphy - Captain Dougherty is the
inspection captain, Captain Dougherty is assigned to Internal Security. They
were given information that there were rumors floating about; and it wasn't a
gun, it was a knife; that a knife was thrown down on the shooting that officer
Davis had been involved in in 1969. Lieutenant Murphy end Captain Dougherty
immediately wrote a memorandum to the Chief of Police and advised him. They
were advised that Captain and Sergeant Clarence Dixon would assume the investi-
gation of this to determine whether or not a knife was thrown down and the
reasons and so forth... Captain Dougherty and Sergeant Dixon have been working
on this case now for approximately a week and a half. This was as I say again
as the result of information that came forward. If information does come for-
ward to police officials certainly then they should report it. The States
Attorney was called at that time. Captain was not supoenaed although Sergeant
Dixon was, I think for another reason. Captain Dougherty was ordered by me to
be here today. He has been here all day if you would like any questions as
to the investigation. I must point out as has been pointed out by Commissioner
Plummer on many occasions today this possibly can be a situation that the States
Attorney could go infront of the Grand Jury and maybe have a criminal trial.
So therefore, I do not believe that we could get into the facts of the situation.
Mr. Plummer: Major, let me ask you this question. I think this is really what
the Manager is trying to say, the Mayor is trying to get to the base of - in
your honest opinion knowing the facts of the case do you think that this came
through legitimate channels or do you think this is harrassment? That's I
think what we're really trying to get to the gut of.
Major Mc Laughlin: Again, I'll repeat I was not here. However, this informat-
ion came to me; regardless of how it came about if someone called in and said
I was on the scene of a shooting and a knife was thrown down regardless whether
it was Otis Davis or anyone else it'd be encumbent upon us, we're mandated to
make an investigation into this. i personally do not know if it is harrassment
or not. 3 was not in the police building for 5 weeks, one of the first times
I haven't been in that building.
90
NOV ' 61974
Mayor Ferret cik. 1 think that js reasenabie, Major.. 1 think that in other
words what you're saying is than: under your charge you are duty bound to in-
vestigate any accusation* of.th.e sort., So if you got, for example within
the next week 30 or 40 accusations you would have to with due diligence in-
veatigate all of theft wouldn't you?
Major Mc Laughlin: Yes, sir. I think some of the things you've asked Mr.
Andrews to look into will probably end up being investigated. So we will
investigate many things.
Mayor Ferret All right. thank you very much, Major. I have i.o further quest-
ions. Does anyone else have any questions? All right, thank you very much,
Major and Sergeant.
Rev. Gibson: What about the statute of limitations? Mr. Lloyd?
Mr. Lloyd: The criminal statute of limitations has long since past.
Rev. Gibson: What did you say, Mr. Lloyd?
Mr. Lloyd: I said the Criminal Statute of Limitations has long since past.
Rev. Gibson: Well let me ask a question.
Mr. Lloyd: I have heard no
Mr. Lloyd: I have heard no word at all about a capital crime here. I have
heard about a knife throwing and that's all I've heard.
Mayor Ferret Is that a criminal offense? Is that the way it qua .ifies?
Mr. Lloyds If in fact it is a criminal offense the Statute of Limitations
on that particular offense, if it is one has past. Now tell me if they are
investigating a possible crime. I haven't heard of such an investigation.
Rev. Gibson: I have difficulty in understanding lawyers. Let me ask this.
Mr. Lloyd, I'm going to talk as man to man not as lawyer to Commissioner. If
let's take the Davis case, it has gone the legal route. Under the circumstance
is Davis yet liable or what? Or isn't he?
Mr. Lloyd: If you're talking about a possible homocide, of course, the Statute
of Limitation is forever. However, ....
Rev. Gibson: What you mean?
Mr. Lloyd: Well I mean there is no statute of limitations for unlawful homo-
cide, that is murder. But I don't know that any such crime is being investi-
gated.
Mayor Ferre: I'm not a lawyer but tell me, wasn't this case already tried?
Mr. Lloyd: Now let me explain what had happened in this case. This case
was tried civily. Prior to that to the best of my recollection, and I'm
attempting to remember now, I believe and this is solely to the best of my
recollection, that there was an inquest. I would assume there was because
there usually is in deaths of this nature. And also to the best of my recol-
lection it would have been the justice of the peace and I assume it was Fer-
guson and this can be checked out; found either justifiable or excusable
homocide. 1 would suspect from the facts it would have been excusable homo-
cide.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Lloyd, I'm going to go about this one just like I said to
Mr. Andrews earlier. I want you to answer those details for us tomorrow. You
know why? Because you know what I ... if the Statute of Limitation has run
against this case I'm sure that Department of ours is man knowledgeable as
hell. They know that! And you know what I'm going to conclude? Or don't
you?
Mr. Lloyd: I have no knowledge.
Rev. Gibson: All right. Then let me tell you what. I will be concluding
that this is intimidation and harrassment. That's the way I'm going to con-
clude it and I want the facts laid out on the table tomorrow. Mr. Mayor,
you could specify a time certain because you know I don't like this kind of
dealing.
91.
NOV - 61974
1r. Lloyd: Were we go thy further, 1 as yet do not' kfow what Internal
SeaUrity is investigating other then an alleged throw down knife. That is
all I know of.
Rev, Gibson: l4r. Lloyd, let me tell you this. We pay good money and big
aroney, plenty coney for you to be specific tomorrow.
Mr. Lloyd: Just a moment then! Why don't you ask internal Sedutity to be
specific. I
ReV. Gibson: Mr. Lloyd, let me do it this way. I don't give a dog gone who
ought to answer. All I'm saying to you - we want you as our legal counsel to
answer the question. Now if Internal Security must answer it you have them
here to answer tomorrow for me. That's the way I look at it. Mr. Andrews,
or if I can't tell him to do it let me ask you to do it and then you could
tell whoever else has to be told.
Mr. Lloyd: Because I thought I had given you an answer now.
Rev. Gibson: Well, I don't like the answer because it is ah-h-h. Give me
a positive answer, Mr. Andrews, tomorrow please.
Mr. Lloyd: Wait a minute now. If I get a question that I can understand I'll
give you an answer. Give me the question and I'll be delighted to answer.
Rev. Gibson: I want to know if the Statute of Limitations has run against
this case of Davis or whoever that was and if Davis can now be re -investigated
and go to court and tried.
Mr. Lloyd: I've answered that. The answer is with respect if they attempt to
prove an unlawful homocide of murder the statute has not run.
Mayor Ferre: But that's not'what he's involved as you've been told.
Mr. Lloyd: What I've attempted to explain is that this is not what they're
attempting to investigate. Now I can tell you what this case is about: I
personally represented Mr. Davis and the City of Miami at the time.
Mayor Ferre: Excuse the interruption, Mr. Lloyd but look. The case is speci-
fic. Let me ask this specific question. The accusation as I understand it is
that Mr. Davis threw down a knife. Now the question is has the Statute of Limi-
tations in the Criminal liability against that run, yes or no?
Mr. Lloyd: Yes, and I said so before.
Rev. Gibson: All right then, what good purpose does it serve now to investi-
gate?
INAUDIBLE
Rev. Gibson: Who is wrong, J.L.?
Htr. Plummer: The questioning, if what I have knowledge of is true the whole
gut issue here is was what Mr. Taylor brought before an inquest in '69, was
it a truthful inquest...
Rev. Gibson: Then what are you telling me? Somebody in the Police Depart-
ment lied? Is that what you're telling me?
Mr. Plummer: Yes, yes! That's the whole basis. Excuse me, I'm treading on
thin ice. Please don't laugh, this is very serious to this man, very serious
to this man. Let me say this: The implication is, if I understand correctly
that it was not justifiable hcmocide. That is the implication. If that is
true the Statue of Limitations has not run.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, excuse me, I don't want to get into a legal debate
with you but according to the records that I have seen on this the Ferencik
Report clearly states that the bullet that killed the man was a ricochet bullet.
You would have to conclude that the man shooting the gun would have to be
Einstein to figure out the angle of the ricochet to kill the victim and cer-
tainly if he were taking that much of a chance that bullet could hit his head
just as easily as the man that got killed. So I don't think that is the pur-
pose.... Wait a moment! The purposeof the inquest, as I understand it is
92
NOV '61974
whether et hot this men, Mr. Otis Davis threes down a knife afl:er the accident
or whatever it was.
Mr. Plu er: Mt. Mayor, because there seems to be that area that is gray I
think that A. J. Mc Laughlin and Mr. John Lloyd and Mr. Paul Andrews can get
their little heads together this evening and come back to this commission
with the appropriate answer tomorrow instead of everybody sitting over here
en the horns of dilesMa. So let's do it so some time in the afternoon they
cane back and give their answer. I think they
Rev. Gibson: Let's talk about time certain, Mr. Mayor, for that answer.
What time? J.L., afternoon could run up to this hour. All right, for time
certain we want an answer at 2 O'Clock tomorrow.
Mayor Ferre: Now before we break up, ladies and gentlemen wait a minute
before we break up.... Before we do any of that I want to know what the will
of this Commission is because there are other matters to be brought up before
this Commission. Does this Commission want to continue hearing these things
or not.
INAUDIBLE
Mayor Ferre: Well, as far as I'm concerned I would say that we have heard
about 60% of the cases that I wanted to bring up before the Commission.
Mr. Plummer: As one on the Commission, Mr. Mayor, until such time as you
organise another agenda I think it behooves you to bring it before this
Commission and at that time we can then schedule another meeting if that is
the majority will.
Mayor Ferre: All right, what we will do at this point
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, may I make myself clear? Mr. Mayor, before you move
to rise which is customary for the committee of the whole, I would say to you
that unless you have something else you can prove by bringing more matters to
the table I think we have heard a great deal of testimony today to back what
you're claiming is a problem and we've found what we think is an approach to
maybe solving it. What more can we gain by further hearings? If there is
something to be gained I mean I'm willing to listen.
Mayor Ferre: No, all it would be is that there are other people that have
requested to testify on specific cases and it would give them the opportunity
to state their opinion. For example, we have a lady here from the ACLU who
has been rather concerned that I wouldn't let her talk.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, I didn't want to shut people off this morning and that is
why I went along with
Mayor Ferre: Well we haven't shut people off. Everybody has talked as much
as they wanted.
Mrs. Gordon: No, I didn't mean that. I didn't choose not to have any debates
today simply because I didn't want the public to feel they were closed out.
Mayor Ferre: Well, there are a lot of people who want to talk. Do we just
say we're not going to listen to them?
Mrs. Gordon: That's not the point.
Mayor Ferre: Well it is the point. The point is exactly that and I think
that is why it is my opinion that we should continue.
Mrs. Gordon: Then will you set the date for the continuation of this?
Mayor Ferre: Let's do it right now. What day would you like to choose?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I would move you that we recess this meeting at this
time and once you have and the rest of the Commission have put together an
agenda we then can set a meeting.
Mayor Ferre: I'll have an agenda in the next few days, a tentative agenda.
Could we set the date of the 20th of November? Because we have to work too,
you know. Listen, I've got other obligations besides this, you know
93 NOV - 61974
INAUNI
Y
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, can we adjourn and then set it tomorrow when we
coMe? We could do that.
Mayor Petrel' All right, would you look at your schedules and see if the 20th
of November, Wednesday is acceptable to all of you....
Rev. Gibson: Why don't we say to the pu lic► can I suggest this, Mr. Mayor?
After discussion:
Mayor ?erre: All right, the 19th is fine. I'll accept that situation. Those
of you that want to speak, you write to my office since we're arranging the
schedule. And to my fellow Commissioners, anybody that you u.ent to testi&
to speak or anything that you want, please let me know so I can schedule it and
I will try to meet your wishes as much as possible.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, may I only make one suggestion? And I want Internal
Security to hear this.
Mayor Ferrel J.L., excuse me, before you do that, the Vice -Mayor can't meet
on the 19th.
Mr. Plummer: Let's set the date tomorrow. All right? Mr. Mayor, I would
like to make a statement at this time that I think that we have heard enough
testimony today that there have been acts of brutality, they do exist and I
don't think anybody would deny that they haven't existed. It would be my
hope and desire that you as well as any of the other Commissioners that wish
to bring people to testify befoer this Committee will address other areas of
where problems exist not going back into more brutality questions drqwing
back 10 or 15 years. I listened very well to the man from the University
when he said we should be playing to the strengths. And I think first we
have to identify the problems which we've done abundantly in one area today
and I'm only hopeful that any other additional testimony will be in other
areas so that we can identify the problem and not be redundant.
Rev. Gibson: I agree with you.
Upon the motion of Commissioner Gibson, seconded by Commissioner Gordon
the Committee of the Whole moved to rise at 5:30 P.M. by a unanimous vote.
ATTEST:
LITY K U� N
.G,ON3I
ISTANT �ITY CLERK
M4URJCE A. FERRE
YOR
94
NOV 61b14