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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1974-09-19 MinutesY OF MI AMI 6b/rt) IssI SPECIAL MEETIPNG TO DISCUSS THE Coconut Gkove Zoning Study OF MEETING HELD ON SEPTEMBER 19, 1974 PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK CITY HALL (This meeting was continued to 9-23-74) H. D. SOUTHERN CITY CLERK RALPH G. ONGIE ASSISTANT CITY CLERK MINUTES_ dt' . SPECIAL COMMISSION MEETING 'HHURSDAY, SEP 'EMBER 19, 1974 On the 19th day of September, 1974, the City Commission Of the.City of Miami, Florida met in Special Session called by Mayor Maurice Pierre to consider business of public import. Mayor Ferre announced the purpose of this special meeting was to discuss the Coconut Grove Zoning Study. The meeting was called to order at 5:00 O'Clock P.M. and the following members of the Commission were found to be present: Mayor Ferre Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner Commissioner J.L. Plummer Manolo Reboso Rev. Theodore Gibson Rose Gordon Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, this Commission is back in session. This is a special City of Miami City Commission Meet- ing for the purposes of a public hearing on the Coconut Grove Zoning Study. i would like to announce at the outset that there will be many very contrasting, I'm sure contradicting opinions to be presented here today. I would like to respectfully plead with each and every one of you who will be speaking today to hold your emotions to a minimum. I would be most grateful if we don't get into booing, applauding, screaming, cajoling or otherwise outbreaks that are unbecoming to the wonderful citi- zenry of Miami and Coconut Grove and other parts of our commun- ity. I know that there is much emotional impact in the sLbject matters that will be presented. I also know that there are many things that will be said here that will upset many of you greatly on both sides of the issue. Control yourselves, write down what it is that you're going to say and you will be recog- nized and you will all have your turn to speak your mind. Now secondly, I would like to respectfully request that you organ- ize yourselves as much as possible into groups so that we will have the best voices, if that is possible to distinguish in that sense, speaking for positions. I ask that in the interest of time and efficiency. If, however, you feel that you must speak either today or at a future time, if we run beyond a certain point, I will certainly recognize; I don't want any citizen of this community to feel that he has not had ample opportunity to express his viewpoint if he feels the compul- sion and desire and the need to so express himself or herself. Lastly, It is now five minutes after five. This public hearing will last 5 hours at the maximum. I want to announce right now so nobody will get offended, that when 10 O'Clock rolls around - to the second - we will stop this meeting. If we have been able to conclude something then I will be very happy. If we haven't, you'll have to be patient and bear with us to a future meeting or future meetings until we conclude this, these and other items that will come before us on this very important matter. Now, the fourth thing I wanted to say before we started is that we've been here since the morning and it has been a long day and we've been arguing back and forth about the budget which will affect your taxes and my taxes and also your services and say services in the City. It has been a long day. So I'll try to be patient with you and you try to he patient with me. We're going to break at 7:30 for a half hour break so we can get something to eat. We had a half hour break for lunch today and believe me it's not the most enjoyable thing to eat lunch with one hand and be signing papers with the other and know that in half an hour we've got to get back here. So we're going to have to do the same thing this evening and we will be taking in about two and a half hours, a half --hour break. Ok. Those are the basic guidelines. Now, Mr. Acton. Mr. George Acton: Mr., Mayor and members of the Commission, I'm going to keep my comments to the Commission extremely brief. We do have a few slides and a few maps we'd like you to look at but the essence of the entire public hearing tonight deals with a very comprehensive planning document that the Commission should have in front of them because I do want to refer to a few pages that are of vital importance in consideration of the eventual conclusions that the Commission must reach in adopting this document, hopefully, in principle. Before I start I would like to give credits to where credits are due in the preparat- ion of this document. I would like the Commission to know Mr. Jack Luft who was the project director of the Planning Depart- ment in this document who in conjunction with representatives of various civic organizations in Coconut Grove and other public and private interests, I think has done an outstanding job for the City of Miami. There are many civic organizations in the audience tonight and representatives thereof who I would like to have stand up that have worked with the department in the preparation of this document. So if you just would, those indi- viduals in the audience that have worked in the preparation of this document, just please stand up and give this Commission some idea. We have very heavily involved the citizens in Coco- nut Grove in the preparation of this document and we're here tonight to recommend to the Commission that you adopt this docu- ment which entitled "A Planning Study for Coconut Grove" in principle with certain modifications that we'll get to later. I first want to start out by directing the Commission's attent- ion to page 15 in the document which is the definition of issues and relates to those issues which the variot:s civic organizat- ions felt were the most important to deal with in the prepara- tion of this document. They are numbered from one through 10 and they're set in priority. Number 1 deals with traffic, and I'm not going to go through and read them all but I want you to be aware of the fact that these are priority items that were set forth basically in cooperation between the department and civic organizations. Following on page 16 and based on the definition of issues are the community goals that are result of the definition of the issues. In other words, if you read the issues and go to the goals, the goals hopefully will re- solve the issues set forth on page 15. We have a series of rougly half a dozen slides which are reproductions of maps in the document which I would very briefly like to go through. We're going to start out with the existing community struct- ure of Coconut Grove which follows page 3 in the Planning docu- ment. This document is entitled "Existing Community Structure" and identifies the major elements of Coconut Grove as they relate to each other in terms of land use. It identifies the neighborhoods, identifies the community facilities, it identi- fies the major edge of Coconut Grove which is formed by U.S. 1 and it also identifies the circulation system which in most cases forms the boundaries of various neighborhoods within Coconut Grove. Based on this the next slide which follows page three, and this one is entitled "General Land Use"; this slide by land use classification shows the reader exactly what type of land use is contained in Coconut Grove and how it is distributed. It is very important to notice, for instance, the relationship of the central business district of Coconut Grove and also the sub -shopping area which lies along Bird Avenue and how it relates to Coconut Grove and its neighbor- hoods. This tells the reader the types of land use and how they are related to each other. The next slide is future land use, and I am skipping very rapidly now, the future land use SEP 191974 was based upon aft extensive analysis of social economic and physical factors within Coconut Grove and illustrates the Circulation system and the land use proposed for the future in Coconut Grove and is spelled forth in terms of land use and intensities of land use and the distribution within the Coconut Grove area. The next slide is the existing zoning as applied to Coconut Grove and probably of the most importance in this slide, is the existing hodge podge type of crazy -quilt pattern that we have in the application of zoning districts to Coconut Grove. We have many examples of what would almost be spot zoning and this was one of the major efforts in our deter- mination to apply the principals illustrated by the future land uae map which we just reviewed in its application to the existing zoning pattern in an attempt to more clearly identify how the future zoning should implement the community goals that we looked at on page 16. Mr. Mayor, this map entitled'Proposed Zoning", and I'll have Mr. Luft bring it up closer to the Com- mission so they can get a better view of it, represents the translation of the "Future Land Use Map" that you viewed into actual zoning patterns. Yes, sir. You have everything that I'm... Mayor Ferre: All right. That's on page.... Mr. Acton: That follows page 19. Mayor Ferre: Why don't we, those of you that have books, if you'll open it up to page 19, to the page after and then Jack, why don't you then turn this around so that those that don't have books can follow. We'll follow in our books. Go ahead. Mr.. Acton: Very simply, Mr. Mayor, the existing zoning as the Commission so well knows; I beg your pardon, the proposed zon- ing as the Commission so well knows is a translation of a fut- ure land use plan into a zoning pattern. Hopefully, the pro- posed zoning as applied to Coconut Grove will implement the com- munity goals that are identified on Page 16. I want to point out to the Commission that the master plan that you're review- ing: I want to point out to the Commission that this is the same document that was reviewed by the Planning Advisory Board and of course they recommended it subject to their own modifi- cations and recommendations. Mr. Mayor, excuse the momentary lapse here but the Planning Advisory Board recommended this document subject to certain modifications, one of which was the identification of an R-3 zoning applied to Fair Isle instead of the R-4 shown on your map. I have the resolution here: A resolution recommending the approval of a planned study for Coconut Grove as presented the City of Miami Planning Depart- ment with the modification that the zoning for Fair Isle be changed from R-5 to R-3. I just want to point out that that was the one modification that the Planning Advisory Board reco- mmended to this document as prepared by this department. In the proposed zoning the department, recognizing the fact that the village of Coconut Grove has a very unique business dist- rict did make certain recommendations for the creation of new zoning districts to be applied to Coconut Grove expecially as they pertain to the village center identified to as C-2A on the proposed zoning map. This proposed C-2A is also to be ap- plied to the existing commercial node that exists at the corner of Grand and Douglas Avenue. We also proposed the creation of a new district, an RC-C District which would be similar in ap- plication to the RC -A except it has in it a density that would be equii►lent to R-3A. Now that was an attempt to recognize the fact that that portion of 27th Avenue has been developed as a sort of professional office section and this would allow 3 SEP 191974 that type of development to continue in that type of scale and also offers the option of small scale residential development in connection with the commercial development. In addition to the creation of those two new districts this is the document that reeormaended the environmental preservation ordinance which the Commission has already passed on second reading. It also recommended the creation of the historic preservation ordinance which presently is undergoing workshops with the Planning Advis- ory Board. In other words, what I'm saying is that those two ordinances are a spin off of this document. These are two of the goals that were set forth by the representatives in the Coconut Grove Civic Association and the department worked very closely with them in identifying and translating those goals into actual ordinances. The last map which I would like to have the Commission review is again, deals with proposed zon- ing - this follows page 25, Mr. Mayor - it is what we call a special overlay district. We'll probably change the title of that and have it come under the special planned development, enabling legislation that the Commission will be reviewing on Monday. If the Commission recalls, under the Planned Develop- ment legislation you have the option of either creating a new district to replace an existing one or you can come in and modify existing regulations as they pertain to height, to den- sity, uses or whatever else. Now the special overlay district as identified on page 25 does set forth controls on height especially as they relate to 27th Avenue and Bayshore Drive. The height limitation along 27th Avenue has been recommended 4-stories which would be the same height restriction that the department recommended in the creation of the C-2A or the dist- rict that is to be applied to the village center. The overlay district also recommends a 10-story height limitation be applied along Bayshore Drive in conjunction with a 30 foot setback, front yard setback instead of the 20 footkfront yard setback. Those are, plus site plan review but those are the basic types of provisions that we recommend be applied in the special overlay district. Now since the time that this plan was reviewed and approved by the Planning Advisory Board the department in co- operation with var..ous civic organizations, private and public interests has continued to refine certain sections of this docu- ment and which has resulted in approximately a dozen different changes in the text. Most of these are of a rather minor nature but I do want the Commission to be aware of the first half dozen. On page 20 the first modification is in response to a proposed H.U.D. elderly housing project which we had identi- fied in the planning document as R-3A zoning, this is page 20 number 5. What we're recommending, and again this is to ac- commodate the housing for the elderly project, is that the R-3A be revised to R-3 to accomodate the amount of density proposed for the H.U.D. project. It is a very low density, as a matter of fact, but it cannot be accomodated in the R-3A. On page 21, number 12 we recommend in the plan the proposal of an R-3A. Instead of that, we're recommending now this be changed to R-CC. Now that's that portion of land that presently is occupied by, used to be the Ryder office Building, across the street from the Bayshore Restaurant and recognizing the fact that it is being used as an office we're saying is that instead of an R-3A which is a pure residential category that the R-CC would accomodate office use as well as residential and would act as a better buffer application than the R-3A. On page 21, number 13 where we say replace the R-4 zoning along the bayfront between Pelican Canal and Mercy Hospital with R-3 we'd like to change that recommendation to read that the plan recommendation remain R-3 with planned area development oppor- tunies to permit up to an FAR of .9, the height of 48 feet or four stories. This is recognizing the fact that the new 4 S E P 191974 building code restrictions which Make it mandatory that a devel- oper will start hie living quarters at plus 12 feet over mean high water plus the fait that in addition to ow lot coverage we're also looking for quality development along the bayfront and we do not think that what amounts to a four-story height would be disruptive or out of character with that low density housing along the bayfront that we could :safely go to a 48 foot height or four stories in that section. On page 22 (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Acton: .9. I say that's with opportunities to .9, Mr. Plumper, in other words using bonus incentives. In other words with the developer comes back with a proper type of development that gives the public the type of objectives that they're look- ing for in the intfastructure then the department can recommend to the Commission as they see fit, you know can grant bonuses. That is what we're saying in here. (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Acton: That's right but even more important than that is the fact that we are looking for site plan approval and review by both the department and this Commission on certain very critical areas along the bayfront.... I think it is four lots, Commissioner Plummer, right, that's roughly. On page 22 item number 14, the plan proposal as recommended by the department was that the R-5 zoning on Fair Isle be changed to R-4. We're recommending now that the plan proposal of R-4 be changed to R-3 but with planned area development opportunities to per- mit of an FAR of about 1.0 which is the same type of intensity that is allowed in R-4 but with restrictions on the amount of density or units that they're not to exceed 500 units which is more than a halving of the density as presently allowed. This 500 units would be very much contingent upon a thorough analysis of the traffic circulation that presently exists along Bayshore Drive in relationship to 17th Avenue and as Fair Isle Drive comes into Bayshore. We know that from our conversations with the Dade County Department of Traffic and Transportation that 500 units is up to about the maximum number of units they think can be handled at this time. That's on a rather preliminary basis in terms of traffic analysis. The next one is on the map following page 24, the village center shopping district, we want to amend the pedestrian street designation to include the north side of Grand Avenue from Virginia Street to Mary Street and this is done based on information that we have garnered since the time that we made our original recommendations. I believe the Commission is probably aware that in the C-2A dis- trict as proposed by the department it requires as a mandatory requirement that 70% of the space at ground level on designated pedestrian streets must be developed as retail. We did this recognizing the fact that most of those streets are already developed as retail and that to leave them as open parking lots or various types of offices that would not generate the type of retail activity would be a disservice to the shopping area it- self. Just amounts to one block. It is on the map, Commission- er Gordon, it is on the, if you'll look at the map following page 24 what we're recommending is that the pedestrian street designation include the north side of Grand Avenue from Virginia Street to Mary Street. Presently, it is not indicated. The next one is on page 23, number 16. We believe this recommenda- tion which is concerned mainly with the proposed C-2A district would serve the community in a much better way if we introduce certain types of bonus provisions that would add to and serve to promote the community goals as they relate to the community SEP 191974 shopping area. The type of bonus provisions that we're consid- ering, for instance, are a provision for a bonus if you provide theatres, perforating arts theatres, that type of bonus provis- ions or if you provide certain types of ground level or second level pedestrian open space that is surrounded with certain types of retail uses. You'd give a bonus again. This is the way to generate the type of retail activity that we think will help the environment in the Coconut Grove business section. What we're recommending is maximum FAR with bonus provisions is 1.75. However, with no change in the height limit of four stories and as the Commission knows, we have on your agenda was listed, the following items we're hearing on the C-2A district, the proposed application and a few other items. We had recommended deferral of public hearing on this item until we could come back to the Commission with the necessary modi- fications and also a rational for it before ve held a public hearing. Do I make myself clear on that? I said items #2 and #3 deal with the enactment of the C-2A zoning ordinance and its application to Coconut Grove. We had recommended deferral of this item until such time as the department would come back to incorporate the type of bonus incentives that I described to the Commission. We're trying to generate performing arts types of activities and other types of open spaces in line with re- tail facilities that will reach the community goals that we projected for the business district. The last one I'd like to discuss with the Commission is on page 30 number 12 and that deals with the circulation system that was proposed at the Main, MacFarlane and Grand intersection. On page 30, Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission or the map following page 30 you can see the recommendation that was included in the planning study for solving the traffic conflicts that exist there and the pedestrian conflicts that exist there Mayor Ferre: You're talking about the map after page 31 not 30. Mr. Acton: I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor. You're right. We had reco- mmended a one-way system down Mac Farlane Road but after the issuance of this document we had conversation with a number of property owners, merchants and other individuals within the business district that pointed out the one-way system although it was very efficient in meeting the circulation objectives of the intersection, it would be rather cumbersome for residents to say traveling down Main Highway, for instance, to go over to Grand Avenue, as an example. So instead of that we're recom- mending a modification to this which still functions in the same manner but will eliminate the one-way system ... (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Acton: I was going to show you a slide, Mr. Mayor, I didn't want to take too much time because .. This is approved, the proposed revision has been approved by both our Public Works Department and the Dade County Department of Traffic and Trans- portation. Mayor Ferre: You say they have or have not? Mr. Acton: Yes, they have both. So I didn't want to spend too much time but I wanted you to be aware of it. Now what is of importance on this map, Mr. Mayor is the direction of traffic flow and I say I don't want to spend too much time on it brt I just want you to be aware that we have, we think accomplished a number of major objectives. 6 SEP191974 Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, George does that have a stronger light because that is very hard to aee that? Mt. Acton: That'a it, Mr. Mayor. What this has, you know the... As you know now, you take your life in your own hands if you try to cross that intersection. What this has is a pedestrian signalization where all traffic would stop and pedestrians could flow in all directions, mainly those directions that are identified with the markings in the crosswalk. It also allows for continuous circulation along Main Highway through Mac Far- lane and it is so set up that it eliminates the very lengthy existing signalization system which causes motorists in the morning, depending on the amount of peak hour traffic to wait for maybe up to a minute or more while the traffic goes through its signalization cycles. (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Acton: It works with it. Yes, it works. I say I'm not going into all of the detail because it is all contained in the report but this does include as you can see from the maps, ex- tensive beautification in connection with the improvements plus a bicycle path that allows bike riders to go around the corner without conflicts between either the cars or the pedestrian. ( INAUDIBLE) Mr. Acton: I'm afraid I don't quite understand your comments. (INAUDIBLE) Mrs. Gordon: J.L., speak into the mike so we can hear your questions. Mr. Plummer: All right. You show on Mac Farlane in particular two lanes coming, what I would call, towards Bayshore Drive and you show one lane going up towards Grand. Now on Bayshore Drive with the completed situation we have out here is going to be two lanes each way. Now are you creating a problem or a bottle- neck really by two lanes coming off of Bayshore funneling into one on Mac Farlane? That is my question. Mr. Acton: No, because one of them, Commissioner Plummer, would be used mainly for making right hand turns into the Yacht Harbor into Sailboat Bay.... merge lane. I understand what your point is. We have two lanes on Bayshore and it merges into one lane.. Right. That's what you're saying. Am I correct? Mr. Plummer: Yes. Mr. Acton: What we're saying, we recognize that but the merge lane and the one lane that presently exists along Bayshore will serve as right hand turns into the existing very intensive developments along there which include Yacht harbor and Sail- boat Bay. Mayor Ferre: George, I'm going to tell you, I know this is a detail and I know we don't want to be stopping, but I'll tell you my opinion off hand. That one lane, this new compromise that you've come up with; you know what is going to happen, Jack On Mao Farl anr, you'''(' (mot one 1:'.n(1, r nd j'v1' '..' (' t a . cjoI.i;c,, to happen? The kids are going to be stopping to see who is in Lums and that traffic is going to start backing up all the way back. That is' one point that I want to make to you and (2), I think the point that Plummer made is going to be a 7 SEP 191974 problem and (3) one of the main things that I see on traffic congestion in coconut Grove is that obviously Coconut Grove is used as a throughway for people going beyond Coconut Grove. The more you do this kind of stuff, the more attractive, I think it becomes for people to use that as a throughfare. I think we, this is the way I see it, we don't have control completely of traffic because that's a Metro function. But on the other hand. I think the more of this type of stuff that we do the more we're inviting people to go through the Grove on their way to some other place and that is a serious consideration. Mt. tuft: The. answer to Mr. Plummer's question "What do we do with two lanes moving southbound on Bayshore Drive?", there is a mandatory right turn for the curb lane at Mary Street. The median 'lane continues southbound so the.two lanes south - bound on Mac Farlane Road or on Bayshore Drive would be split at Mary Street. One would be a mandatory right to Mary which would then continue down grand to the intersection. The other would be straight turn up Mac Farlane Road so your two lanes are aecomodated. Right now both lanes come down Mac Farlane Road into the intersection but this would split the two lanes. Now essentially what this does is it makes you make a choice at Mary Street whether you want to go down Main Highway or whether you want to go down Grand Avenue. Right now we allow them to get all the way to the intersection and then the driver to make a choice - do you want to go down Main Highway or Grand Avenue. Because of that choice it creates a turning conflict that destroy s the cycle. Now if we split them at Mary Street we can split them there and have a continuous flow, run them into the intersection, create safer conditions as far as vehi- cle movement but in answer to Mr. Ferre's question, we can ac- commodate as many cars with this system as we're presently ac- commodating today through the Department of Transportation's analyses. But your question was "What are we doing for Coconut Grove and was this oriented toward through traffic movements?" The point that was made in the report with regards to the inter- sction that was designed was that (1) we had to .facilitate pedestrian safety. As the hub of that pedestriar oriented re- tail center, we had to get them across that street in as safe a manner as possible. Right now the pedestrian circulation system is completely broken down. You cannot get across that intersection except to jaywalk. The point is that we're short- ening crosswalk distances, we're providing a complete pedest- rian phase, we're providing additional landscape considerations, we're providing additional bike lanes. All of these are orient- ed to service Coconut Grove residents, people in the village center. DOT, Department of Transportation said "In the process of doing that we cannot allow you to decrease traffic volumes. You can't take anything away from us, we need it too badly." Mayor Ferre: That's part of the conflict because the Department of Transportation is concerned with traffic volume and they know that any traffic that Roes down Coconut Grove is kept off of U.S. 1 and that's one of the big conflicts that we have here because the interest of the city of Miami and the interest of the people of Coconut Grove is to keep that through traffic out of there. Mr. Luft:a Well, to the extent that we don't expand the capa- city at that intersection, we will be doing that. Mayor Ferre: But if you simplify traffic patterns through there and increase traffic flow, aren't you in affect invit- ing more people to use this as a route to avoid U.S. 1? 8 S E P 191974 Mr. Luft: We are not significantly increasing traffic flow. It is a Matter of about 5 or 10%. It is very minor, certainly not significant in terms of through traffic. Mayor Ferret But you don't know what happens when you get a 5 or 1O% improvement - that's just an invitation for 50% pr 20% to try to get through there. Mr. Luft: The advantages tht accrue through this intersect- ion design are 9 to 1 in favor of Coconut Grove. The fact is if it is so desired as a policy, we can design that intersect- ion easily enough to restrict through traffic movements. There's no problem in that. Mayor Ferre: Well, how can you do that specifically? How can you do that. You say you can design that, how can you design that? Mr. Luft: We change the signalization phase for one thing. We would provide accomodated turning movements from Main Highway to Grand Avenue which would decrease the phase time for Mac Farlane Road traffic. We would increase the pedestrian phase... Pardon? Mayor Ferre: Is that proposed in here? Mr. Luft: No. Mayor Ferre: Why not? Why can't you? Mr. Luft: Because we were operating on the assumption that the traffic volumes had to maintained at roughly the same level that they are now and a good many people that go through that intersection are Coconut Grove residents. You remember that we're talking about 1 hour a day or one or two hours a day for 5 days a week but most of the other traffic that traverses that intersection for the rest of the time, much of it is Coconut Grove traffic. So we're making it safer for them to move. In addition, we're establishing a great many things for the pedestrians and the cyclists. Mayor Ferre: Jack, answer that question that 4t asked about when you go up Mac Farlane from the bay to the intersection of Grand and Main, my question is, if you just have one lane there in that direction and somebody for any reason should stop on any of those locations... Mr. Luft: The design of this street is with 15 foot lanes. Any car could pass. Mayor Ferre: You're saying then in one lane two cars could pass. Is that what you're saying? Mr. Luft: If need be, for safety purposes, yes. Those are 15 foot lanes. Mayor Ferre: So in other words what you're saying is that the lane is wide enough where if a car does want to pull off on the side there it won't block the flow of the traffic. Mr. Luft: If there is a mechanical failure, it can move by. That is correct. Mr. Plummer: Don' t you have two lanes now from Mac Farlane up to Grand? 9 SEP 191974 Mt. Luft: On Mac Farlane, yea. There's two up and two down. Mr. Piurs You are decreasing the flow. Mr. tufts We're taking that one lane and putting it over to Grand Avenue for the through traffic purposes. Mayor Ferre: Wouldn't it be really much better for everything if that were all one way going .... Mr. Luft: It has some advantages. Yes, it does. It has some distinct advantages but one of the disadvantages to the one- way system is that it makes it more difficult for the citizens of Coconut Grove to negotiate that intersection. Say if you're coming up Main Highway, it would be very difficult to get to Winn Dixie. The only way to do it would be to go completely around the block past Yacht Harbor up Mary Street and back Grand Avenue with the one way system. This was a problem. We recognized that and we're offering this as an alternative. Mayor Ferre: You mean it is a problem for the motorist. Mr. Luft: It is a problem for the residents of Coconut Grove who are trying to get to their public services within the village center. Mayor Ferre: In an automobile. Mr. Luft: In an automobile. Right. Mr. Acton: Mr. Mayor, as I said before, there are about seven other modifications but they are very minor in nature, typo- graphical errors and that type of thing so I don't think we'll even bother to go into them at this time. So I would conclude our presentation by reminding the Commission that the Commis- sion did take action pertaining to the issuance of building permits in Coconut Grove so whatever action you do take please bear that in mind in terms of necessary extensions, issuance of permits that would be in accord with '.Iris plan until.... (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Acton: Right, I understand that but I just wanted to bring that to your attention. Mrs. Gordon: What is the major difference between the R-CC and the R-CA? Mr. Acton: The difference, Commissioner Gordon, is that the intensity of development that would be allowed, in the R-CC would be equivalent to an R-3A as opposed to an R-2. The R-CA allows residential development but only in terms of an R-2 density. We're recognizing the fact that there is potential for combination uses, office, residential; recommending that the density be upped. Mrs. Gordon: R-CC is more liberal? Mr. Acton: It is more liberal in terms of allowing the density equivalent of an R-3A as opposed to an R-2. 1 That's basically the change. Mrs. Gordon: But it still permits the office usage. Mr. Acton: Yee. That's right. So we're looking for a more mixed use if possible. 10 SEP 191974 Mr. PluMMert George, the APO, I'MH looking at a map after page 1g . I don't recognize the Rpb and if I do recognize it it looks like it is in the middle of Vizcaya. Mr. Acton: No, that's I believe the lesser residential, planned single family planned development that is in the ord- inance but it hasn't been used since I have been with the City of Miami. Mr. Plummer: It says low density. Mr. Acton: 'yes, it is a very very low density. It is the estate density, that's the Deering Estate that you're looking at. There are two of them that are identified along the bay - shore, the other one is almost at the bottom of your map. That's one of the very old early attempts the Planning Depart- ment made to develop a residential planned development but I say it was done Mayor Ferre: Well, they exist now, don't they? Mr. Acton: Yes, they exist now. Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you, why rather strange to have that right rest, why don't we just eliminate don't... I mean it seems smack in the middle of the those two things? Mr. Acton: Well, I said they're, the residential planned development accompanies the plan, Mr. Mayor. But your point is well taken, I think both of them are well takenand we'll look into it as a potential modification. I say it does accompany a plan and while I know the Deering Estate is being developed in accordance with a plan, I will look into it and take that into•consideration in terms of the application of zoning. I think it is a good point. Mayor Ferre: All right. Are there further questions from members of the Commission at this time? Mr. Plummer: Well, as I understand it we'll hold our quest- ions and get into it Mayor Ferre: Well at this time and eventually we'll get into a lot of questions I'm sure. Mayor Ferre: Now we're going to get into the public aspect of this and I want to reiterate one more time - please try to keep your emotions down, no booing, no hissing, no applauding - please. And I would also respectfully like to ask whatever sides that are going to be represented here that we try to keep away from emotional arguments like: I moved from Los Angeles because of the smog and I moved to Coconut Grove and it is go- ing to be ruined and all of this; while on the other side - if you pass this my children won't be able to work and I will be out of work and all of this ... We've got both sides, we know what the arguments are so try to keep away from the emotionalism if you can and try to stick to pertinent facts speaking to the subject natter which is before us. I don't mean to tell you what you can and cannot say -but please. Nov, how many speakers do we have before? Would you raise your hands. How many of you want to speak today? About-25 speakers. All right, now, wow. If we allocated 5 minutes to each speaker that would give us about AA hours. Ok, let's see if we can simplify it this way. How many are here that wish to speak as opponents to any portion of this plan, in opposition to one or more port- ions of the proposed plan? Of one or more? There are 16 11 SEP 191974 opponents to a portion or all of this. Now how many want to speak as proponents of this plan as it is being presented? Well now, there is something wrong beoauae i counted about 25 people. you see.that little red light? When that goes on you stop speaking, please. Now there is something wrong because there is 16 that want to speak in opposition to something and 25 raised their hands. There are nine missing. You just want to speak generally, is that it? (INAUDIBLE) Mayor Ferre: Well, OK, that really doesn't accomplish any- thing because t know that there are several hundred people here and I can't say whether it is two or three or four hundred and there might be ten thousand people outside of these walls that might be for it. I'm sure that's true but I'm sure that most of you are here as proponents. Ok, so now, let's start then with the speakers. If .you would each come up to the Clerk and give him your name I will allocate; is there anybody that needs to speak more than three minutes? Anybody that needs to speak more than 5 minutes? Anybody here want to speak more than 5 minutes? Six people more than 5 minutes. Well ok, here is how we're going to do this: I'm going to give you each four minutes to speak. Try not to speak more than that. If you need an additional minute or two then I will give you the additional minute. Now, if at the end of the meeting we haven't gone more than two and a half hours in this portion of it then I'll recognize you to make further statements. How is that? (INAUDIBLE) Mayor Ferre: Look, I'm not trying to nuzzle anybody. All I'm trying to do is trying to keep this thing from going beyond 10 O'Clock and trying to keep this within a semblence of logic. Mr. Southern, how many speakers have you recorded there? Mr. Southern: He's tallying them up now. We have quite a few more than we expected. Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, may I have your attention. Would you please take your seats, we're about to begin. Please. Mr. Southern: Mr. Mayor, we have approximately 46 speakers. Mr. Plummer:. Mr. Mayor, let me also bring another thing to' your attention. Mr. Mayor, as you might also recall it was stated that this was a meeting which we purposely held start- ing at 5:00 O'Clock so that most of the people ao uld be here at 5:00 but a great number of them would be getting off from work at 5:00 and would be here six to six -thirty. So I think you're going to have to allow a little bit of latitude for those people who are still coming from work who wish to be heard. Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, ''m well aware of that and I'm sorry you reminded me of it. Now, I think maybe what we'd better do since a lot of people are here strictly on the Fair Isle port- ion of this is perhaps to start with that end of things and allocate maybe one hour to the speakers who want to speak just to that subject to get that over with and then another two hours for the rest of the items. Now I think that's a fair way to do it. I'm sure there will be a lot of people who won't agree but that's the way we're going to do it. Mr. Treister, I'm sure everybody here wants to go and I'm sure everybody wants to leave and I'm sorry but you know somebody has to make a decision and I'm sitting in the chair so please forgive me. I'm sure a lot 12 SEP 191974 of people here won't be happy with a lot of decisions but that's the way it is. All right, now. I'm going to make one exception to all of this and I'm going to recognize Joanne Holshauser. She has been very ill and she asked to be recog- nised first because the doctor has ordered her back home and to bed as quickly as possible. I will give you four minutes. if you can snake it less, please do. Mra. Joanne Holshauser: Thank you. I'm Joanne Holshauser and I live at 4230 Ingraham Highway which Coconut Grove's answer to Sebring and the Los Angeles Freeway. We don't have any high- rises but we have traffic. Eighteen years ago I moved to Miami and I lived in a'little rented house in Coral Gables. One day at a party I met a little lady who lived in the Grove and I've never been able to remember her name but I've never forgotten what she said. I said I was looking for a house in the Grove and she leaned forward with a sparkle and she said "Got to be a little bit crazy to live in Coconut Grove"; and she was right. Coconut Grove has always marched to the sound of a very dif- ferent drummer - discordant to some, but music to most of us. In the last ten years or so a strange and wonderful thing has happened. All over the world people of countless disciplines from architecturu,to behavioral science, to philosophy, to even zoo keepers and the zin masters have been searching for those qualities which keep us sane and human in an increasingly in- sane world and one of the most important things turns out to be that very quality of humanness, that very toleration and appreciation of the rights of individuals to be different which typifies the Grove. By accident, if you will, Coconut Grove stumbled upon the way to make it in an awesome and increasingly complex world. The common humanity which unites us is no more or less important than the differences which separate us and herein lies the friction which gives us our energy which gives the Commission a lot of trouble sometimes. In the late 60's the Coconut Grove Civic Club aware of the rapid acceleration of growth in the Grove and alarmed by the increasing polariza- tion of groups of residents took the first step on the road which although unfortunately landscaped in the eyes of some of us has led us here tonight. We commissioned a study of Coconut Grove by a firm of urban specialists. We were asked to furnish a list of names of people to be interviewed and I think it is a hallmark of the quality of thought and effort which has pre- vailed throughout these ensuing years that on that list were some of the people who were and have continued to be most vocal in their opposition to some of the things the Civic Club hopes to accomplish. From then until now through Jack Luft's over- whelming efforts for over a year now, people from all walks of life have been able to work on these plans together. The plans aren't perfect and thank God for that. If you have missed evi- dences of the failures of planned communities read about Brazil'.a in this week's Newsweek. But these are good plans even if they aren't perfect. They are plans the Grove can live with and yes, we can grow with them, some growth. These glans need to be adopted and implemented and suj,,v_ted not carved up for the pro- fit of a few industrious develapers. Tonight you will hear a variety of claims put forth by those who oppose some of the moire important elements of the plan. One of those claims I'm sure will be aimed at showing that more development in the Grove brings in more tax revenue. I've watched this for seven years all over the country. It usually isn't true. The services that high price, high quality developments want generally ex- ceed their demands on the tax structure. Another claim will undoubtedly be that restricting building will take jobs away from people. Well my husband gets paid by a steel company and I'm pretty sensitive to the fact that if they stop selling 1a SEP 191974 3 steel we're not going to Make money. 90 that's a bias of mine. Yee, I like to see construction people make money but there is enough substandard housing in the,City of Miami to keep every conatruction company busy. It is not as glamorous as highrisee but it pays. A favorite argument is also that a man has a right to de what he wishes with his own property. Ruskin said, "Whereas it has been known and declared that the poor have no right to the property of the rich, I wish it also to be known and declared that the rich have no right to the prbperty of the pool"; and we've got a lot of poor and middle indotne and retired and a lot of kids in the Grove and that brings us down to owns the Grove. I submit to you, not Mr. Harrison either of them, not Mr. Treister or Mr. De<<n or Mr. Tschutny or Mr. Allen or Mrs. Virrick or any of the rest of us on all sides of this, the names are legion. No one of us owns the Grove, each one of us owns one human share of the Grove and each of us should be allowed to enjoy that one share for so long as we do not encroach upon the human shares of the others. There are other cities that have preserved historical and arch- itectural things. This city has the first in the country to preserve a quality of life and 1 plead with you, let this Com- mission's decision be to go with the plan which will preserve a quality of life for all of us. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: Thank you very much. The next speaker will be Mr. Bob Kunst. Four minutes, Mr. Kunst. Mr. Bob Kunst: My name is Bob Kunst, 2773 S.W. 34th Avenue. Basically, I wouli like to just direct my attention to a few points in the plan. If you turn to the first map after page 29, having participated for a very long period of time now in mass transit, I just want to recall one item here where you have a proposed turn off at Douglas Road from rapid transit; the forum that I participated in with a number of other forums has already indicated and Kaiser engineers has already come out with the fact that we want to pursue mass transit along the F.E.C. right-of-way and that automatically takes care of a number of different routes along the F.E.C..right-of-way there and perhaps the plan that we're talking about here must incorporate that concept. Secondly, I would direct your atten- tion to the map following page 31. I just a couple of questions of it in relationship to the traffic flow. Knowing that there has not been a time element set on any of these proposals in terms of dealing with any of this in Coconut Grove, how does the relationship of traffic relate to what the County has in mind? The County has simply incorporated now concepts like Blue Dash and what have you which is really to frustrate the driver and not to allow him the free access that he had before and perhaps that is going to be developed in terms of the Grove as well. Do any of the plans that have been talked about"here allow for not having cars altogether? I would just like to point a question to the Commission and to the people who dev- eloped the plans altogether. I'm referring to, for example, the Sunday Mall on three blocks along Main Highway or two blocks of Main Highway which I got a petition going several months back and I have over sixty signatures that would allow for a mall from 12 noon until 5 P.M. and I have the County which is very interested in closing off traffic there. I would like to know whether it is possible not to have any cars whatsoeve.* on certain streets so that people can use it instead of au:'nv-"vilee. Is that incorporated to this? It is just a question. Mayor Ferree Excuse me, Bob. Are you getting all of these - questions down, Jack are you writing them down? Go ahead. 14 SEP 191974 3 • Mr,. Kunst: The third point that I have going to the map after page 39 in relationship to pedestrian walkways, I only have one problem with that. Everytime I see more concrete 1 freak out. One pleasant thing about the Grove is that there are no particular sidewalks anywhere and I would really hope that perhaps we're not talking about advancing the concrete stage of sidewalks into the Grove because 1 think it could get to be really contagious. My fourth point, in terms of your priority of rbcommeidations (8) the acquiring of property and developing of a parking garage in the village center. I personally am very much opposed to a parking garage. I think that anything that resembles anything over one-story that at all affects cars ought to not be dealt with in terms of the Coconut Grove Community and I would strongly urge that you not consider a parking Garage in Coconut Grove. Thank you for your time. And by the way, I would like to compliment the people who put this thing together in the sense that a lot of the ideas are really very good. Mayor Ferre: I'm going to read off the names as they're list- ed here and i would like to see if we can get this Fair Isle .subject dealt with in the first hour if we can. I'm sure we'll need more time than that, but let's do it this way. We started at ten minutes after six so we'll dedicate until ten minutes after seven to just the subject of Fair Isle and then we'll come back and give to the other subjects. Mike Simonoff, do you want to talk on Fair Isle? Ted Tschumy, Ken Treister? Mr. Ted Tschumy: Mr. Mayor, commissioners, ladies and gentle- men, my name is Ted Tschumy I live at 3610 Bayview Road, Coco- nut Grove. I'm an architect and the president of the Coconut Grove Civic Club. I have several comments regarding Fair Isle. We regard Fair Isle as an extremely critical project regard- ing the planning study. In addition to its substantial impact in its immediate neighborhood we feel that it will set the tone for future large scale development throughout the Grove. For this reason we think it must be included in the discussion and action taken here today. Specific criticisms regarding Fair Isle are the following: Obviously it is very critical and very detrimental to its immediate neighborhood. This will be discussed more in detail later. It is critical visually to all of the Grove because of the heights involved. Whether it is 40 stories, 20 stories or less we are fearful that it will set a precedent which will result in walling us off from the bay. Obviously this condition exists in much of Miami and Miami Beach today. We don't want it to exist in Coconut Grove. Fair Isle is critical because of its traffic impact both in its immediate neighborhood and throughout all of the Grove. South Bayshore is at capacity now as you know. You, the Com- mission are on record many times as opposing the further widen- ing of South Bayshore. I would point out to you that Fair Isle is just one project. There are many other potential projects according to the existing zoning now which can further choke off South Bayshore and affect the traffic throughout the entire Grove. For these reasons we feel a substantial down zoning is fully justified, fully justified by sound plan- ning principals and we expect you to do this. Thank you very much. Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Clerk, how much time elapsed on that? Mr. Southern: Two minutes. Mayor Ferre: All right, would you mark that down please 15 SEP 191974 because I'm sure mr. Tachumy will be speaking again. Ken Trtister, Peter Quincy. Is Mr. Quincy here? Do you want to speak tG Pair Isle at this time? All right, sir. Now if any of you Want to Concede your time to sortie other speaker that's perfectly all right with me, if you want to concede your time to Mrs.Virriek that's perfectly alright with me. Mx. Peter Quincy: i didn't know I was going to do that. Mayor Ferret' Nobody is forcing you to. If you want to, you May. That's all. Mr. Peter Quincy: I represent the Tropical Audubon Society. Mayor Perre: You address please, Mr. Quincy. Mr. Quincy: 7901 S.W. 118 Street. The Tropical Audubon Society is concerned with the Overall quality of life in both Miami and Dade County. It is our belief that the qualities which are found in Coconut Grove are threatened by planning which failed to fit the numbers to the available resources. If we are to retain a high quality life style we must control urban blight. We must insure against the unsightly and unhappy mix that results from the present system of uninterrupted expansion. In order to retain Coconut Grove's amenities we urge you, the Commission to approve the Coconut Grove Master Plan,with one exception. We believe that the present R-3 with bonus zoning of Fair Isle is incompatible with the adjacent existing pattern of land use and urge you to adopt instead the R-3 zoning reco- mmended by The City of Miami's Planning Advisory Board. We already zone land to keep industry out of suburbia. Can we not zone land to keep suburbia from becoming urban sprawl? Again, we urge you to adopt the Coconut Grove Master Plan and to rezone Fair Isle as R-3. We also recommend approval of a four story height limitation blanketing all of Coconut Grove. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Quincy. Thank you, sir. Mr. J.B. Sibert on Fair Isle, Mr. Sibert. Mr. J.D. Sibert: I'm right there at Glencoe, that's right across the street. I guess I'm as close to it as anybody. Mayor Ferre: I won't recognize you on anything but Fair Isle for the next hour. Mr. Sibert: This is Fair'Isle. In order to speak of Fair Isle, if you're a neighbor and you see it and you just reach out and get it well I'm just as close as anybody, I guess. Fair Isle, this roll back of zoning is unfair. Now I may get off the subject but ...when I bought that property there was not any water there, City Water and we looked at that beauti- ful Fair Isle over there. It was a beautiful place but it was never doing anything and just old dead stumps out there, old pilings and stuff like that and for years and years...this awful view out there then they came along and they were going to build some big beautiful apartments there and buildings - they call them highrises - beautiful things, we imagined what it would be. Anything would be an improvement over what had been in there for the last 50 years and that was to be at Fair Isle. Now comes in about the question about, well the only substantial thing that you have is the traffic situation. Gentlemen, your traffic will take care of itself. Put up your big buildings. Look at the stadium over there. I lived over there and they said don't build this, We haven't got enough 16 S EP 1915174 root. Eighty thOueand people went over those streets the last football game. Your traffic will handle itself. Your Department of Transportation will handle that traffic. Are you going to hold down prosperity, are you going to hold down advancement' Are you going to hold down to little weasely four story buildings or are you going to go out and get a beautiful city? There has always been antagonism. I've for downtown Coconut Grove being just a mall where you can only walk. I atn opposed to anybody running cars in there and back and forth but along here at Fair Isle and things like that, that old mud bank there, you say you can't put it in and you can't do anything with it? That's wrong gentlemen. Look at the beach, look at Collins Avenue, a solid wall there. People coming out there by the thousands and thousands everyday. hoes Collins Avenue take care of the traffic? It certainly does. The traffic situation..building up. Now remember, we had a suit; they rblled us back there in Fair Isle three years ago and we went to court on it and we won. We won against your City of Miami on your roll back. You said we couldn't have four, we had to have three. Thank you, sir. Mayor Ferre: Mr. Sibert, before you leave, we need your ad- dress for the record. Would you, into the microphone, just tell us your address. The next speaker is Mr. Jack Rice. Mr. J.D. Sibert: I live at 20 Samana Drive about a quarter of a mile from the Fair Isle. I have a lot on the bay adjoining it. I've owned that property, I'm the oldest lot owner in Glencoe. I bought it way back in 30. Mayor Ferre; Mr. Rice, you're not going to talk oil Fair Isle. Mr. Joe Kalish, Joe, you don't want to speak on Fair Isle, do you. All right. Lorraine Prince, Robert Fishko, Wayne Allen. Mr. Wayne Allen: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, my name is Wayne Allen. I live at 2222 S.W. 27 Terrace A in Coco- nut Grove. I'm president of the Tigertail Association. Mr. Mayor the best is not to be emotional. It is very hard for us because what we're talking about is our way of life. Fair Isle and what it represents is destroying that way of life. So when you ask us not to be emotional I think you're asking an impossibility. We residents of Coconut Grove have moved here because of the quiet, safe wooded streets; we are here because of the various amenities which a lovely single family resident- ial community can give to us and our families. What we're talk- ing about, to put it in legal terms is a public need. That's what we represent as far as Coconut Grove is concerned and that's why we're talking to you about Fair Isle. As for facts, as I said it is very hard to look at cold facts on this project but let's look at some facts. What would 1000 units such as Fair Isle mean to us? It would mean 8000 vehicle trips per day on S. Bayshore Drive in an area of that street which the Dade County Transportation Department has said is already 62% over capacity. It would mean an increased population of 2500 people. It would mean an unbelievable amount of noise from the vehicles to the single family residences near that build- ing. Air quality, we can talk about that. The carbon monox- ide which we had predicted from studies we'd done would during peak hours exceed minimum safety standards. Let's talk about Mercy Hospital. How would the residents of this area get to Mercy Hospital if we allow this monstrosity to be built? How would police, fire and service get to this area? An absolute impossibility if you allow Fair Isle to be constructed as presently planned. Even with the Planning Department's recommendation now of allowing 500 units it still would be 17 SEP 191974 allowing 4,500 vehicles a day on South Bayshore Drive going through those Small single family streets abutting the Fair Isle area. We think it is pure insanity to even consider such an idea. Fair Isle as it is presently proposed with its R-5 Zoning and the project which is proposed out there will gen- erate requirements for 600,000 gallons of water per day. It will create sewage of 312,500 gallons, ten tons per day of solid waste, additional police and fire personnel, at least two pieces of fire equipment,, street maintenance and widening throughout the entire area, new traffic signals. And what happens to single family property values? Just think about that. Now you can say; well as towers go up the single family property values will probably go up also but that hasn't been the case. It may be right along the bay but if you look back behind those towers I think you're going to see a substantial reduction in single family property values. Now the receiver for the financial interests of Fair Isle was down here the other day urging that you retain the R-5 zoning. We think this is fool hardy on the part of this City Commission if you even consider the possibility. Your Planning Advisory Board has the right idea. We think R-3 is what is proper here. We think you as the City Commission should protect the interests of the citizens of Coconut Grove and we urgently ask you to zone Fair Isle to R-3. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: Thank you, Mr. Allen for keeping your time within the allotted amount. I might mention to you, if you think that was emotional presentation, you ought to come to more City Commission meetings. Thank you for keeping your cool. Mr. Arthur Snyder Mr. Arthur Snyder: Mr. Mayor and gentlemen of the council, my name is Arthur Snyder. I'm an attorney with offices at 1799 N.E. 164 Street, North•Miami Beach. I'll try to stay within the time limit you allotted because sir, I represent, or my law firm represents the mortgagees who are presently forclos- ing the mortgage on Fair Isle. They are Hospital Mortgage Group, Fidelity Mortgage Group and Cabot, Cabot and Forbes. I would also like not to get emotional but when you talk about $9,000,000.00 of a client's money it is very difficult not to. Most of these people that are speaking here today I.notice, as I have in sitting on the other side of the bench where you gentlemen sit as the head of the council, that the zoning of this piece of property on Fair Isle has been R-5 since at least 1961. These people, most of them, moved here this zon- ing was there. It wasn't forced upon them, it didn't come to them out of nowhere. They moved into the area with the zoning exactly what it is and I can understand what they're upset about because I'm also a home owner but they've got to realize the other side of the coin because there is another side of the coin. When someone asks the difference between a recession and a depression, a recession is when your neighbor is out of work and a depression is when you're out of work. Let me tell you something, ladies and gentlemen; the depression status of these people that loaned $9,000,000, now anybody that owns a single family home is in the exactly same position. When they want a mortgage they call up a savings and loan or a bank and they go out and evaluate the property. And God forbid this savings and loan or bank or realestate investment trust should come back with a lower evaluation than you place on the prop- erty and one of the main ways that they evaluate the property is the zoning on that property. Now when you have zoning from 1961 on and a realestate investment trust or a bank is asked to go out and evaluate a piece of property and they go out and they take the integrity of the City of Miami into consideration 18 SEP191974 and they say the zonin4 is this, what would you loan on this piece of property to g4t the developMent plans going to get readi* to build the zoning that exists, not something they're going to go in and try and get a change of zoning, not some- thing that isn't exactly the way it is Ent these are people with rights. The young lady that spoke first talked about property right. We11, let's talk about property rights. These people are going to be the owners of this property - nobody else. They have $9,000,000 they loaned on this property based upon not this plan which wasn't even in existence, not this idea but because the zoning was what it was and they took the price on that land. Now gentlemen, you have to have integrity, and ladies, not only integrity of your zoning and your commun- ity which I understand your desires but you have to have integrity in the laws in this country and the laws of this City. Because if you don't and somebody owned a piece of property and it was downzoned or upzoned or anything which devalued the property and your own government did it to you you'd be the first ones to scream a dictatorship. Now, that's the one side of the coin. These people are nice people that are coming down here. All they want to do is have an oppor- tunity to recoup their money. If there is anybody out here that would like to get together a fund of $9,000,000, the exact amount they loaned; don't even count attorney's fees, we will sell Fair Isle as soon as we get title to it. Believe me, they don't want to make a dime on this piece of property. No way. I want you to know that when people loan money all they do is want their money back. We're not developers, all we want is that. But we would like to cooperate with you. I have been instructed by my clients to sit down with any of you interested groups that would like to sit down, work out a plan that is feasible. We'll junk if necessary the plan for Fair Isle. But you must understand that as a part of this there is a lawsuit going on which will build four forty -story towers no matter what this City Commission does. Now, don't force these people to the wall - cooperate with them. We will bring down the heights, we will bring down the density. We will do anything that we can and we're not wanting to make money no matter what these gentlemen or ladies say. All we want is the money we have in there bac% out. That is all. So thank you very much. If this is... If this City Commis- sion would find some way whereby we can have time because don't forget we just got into this within the month. Mayor Ferre: Thank you, Judge. How much time rue Judge Snyder overrun, please? Mr. Southern: Five minutes, he went five minutes. Mayor Ferre: So he overran one minute. I will recognize one speaker who is in the middle of a presentation one additional minute. Mr. Plummer: Very simply judge, did you indicate to me that you have filed suit on behalf of the mortgage company or you are going to file suit? Mr. Snyder: The foreclosure suit is filed. It is filed as of September lat. Mayor Ferre: All. right. The next speaker is Joseph Reisman. All right, Adele Kanter, Bob Korner, G. Langdon Rogers, Joseph Fleming. Mr. Fleming. 19 SEP 191974 Mr.. aoseph Z. Fleming: I'm an attorney for 'tropical Audubon, Florida Audubon Society, Bayshore Homeowners Association and Tigertail Association. I would like to speak today without waiving any of the rights in connection with the pending liti- gation which has been mentioned by the previous speaker. We basically are appearing here tonight and there will be many citizens that will speak: and give exactly the reasons for this o ask that the R-3 recommendation of the Planning Advisory Board be accepted and confirmed by you. t think it is appro., priate that I address certain remarks to the previous speaker's statement. Because really what he has said is, the question you are considering is whether the right to a profit of Cabot, Cabot and Forbes should be protected at the expense of the prop- erty rights of the entire community because what he has asked you to do is suspend the use of the police power and your zon- ing regulatory power to protect the citizens because a parti- cular investor feels that it needs to make a particular amount of profit. Now other citizens will speak to the exact reasons as to why there is a specific need in this particular case to prevent the type of development that is planned for Fair Island. They will talk of the traffic, they will talk of the pollution, they will talk of the destruction of their community. I would like to say that if you find that what they have said is cor- rect then you have a factual basis for exercising the police power. I would like to say that if you have such a factual basis then you are not acting arbitrarily. In the case of Haddock versus Sebastian an owner of land who had a very val- uable clay and brick making area before a zoning ordinance was passed said that a zoning ordinance would deprive him of his property because it would take the land that was worth $800,000 and the result after the zoning would be that the land would be owrth $60,000. He went to the United States Supreme court over 50 years ago and the Supreme Court found that the City could constitutionally exercise its police power which was the basis for the zoning. The previous speaker has said that peo- ple came into a community and his investors came into a commun- ity and they found a fact and they don't want zoning to change this fact. That is what was essentially urged before the Supreme Court but the court held that this was incorrect. There could be a zoning affect and they said, I quote - and this was over 50 years ago in a much more conservative time from the point of view of the supreme court justices at the time. They said it is to be remembered that we are dealing with one of the most essential powers of government, one that is the least limit- able. It may indeed seem harsh in its exercise. Usually, this exercise is on some individual but the imperative necessary for its existence precludes any limitation on it when not exercised arbitrarily. A vested interest cannot be asserted against it because of the conditions once obtaining and for this reason the Supreme Court approved a zoning change which did take away an individual's right to profit. Years later in 1926 the Sup- reme Court in the Village of Euclid versus Ambler Realty Co. found that it was consistent with historical legal and consti- tutional principles for property rights to be limited so as to avoid the creation of external impacts or harms on other prop- erty owners and the public. The court laid down again the con- stitutional test which was as before that the ordinance is con- stitutional unless it is clearly arbitrary and unreasonable. So the question really before you is whether it is unreasonable to adopt the R-3 plan; the Grove plan as a whole shows that this would be a reasonable plan. The citizens have spoken before and given their reasons at other hearings and they will speak tonight. 20 SEP 191974 Mayor Ferre: Mr, Fleming, how such longer would you like to speak? You've already passed four minutes now. Mr. Fleming: I would like to sum up in 30 seconds. Basically, if this is going ;to be a legal question you do have the author- ity and the question that you should ask yourself is whether you want to refuse to exercise the police power to protect the community and the people that you will hear tonight in order to protect a single investment. And you should measure the nine million dollars which is being claimed by this particular devel- opment against the total vaine of the property owners who appear before you and who haven't been able to appear before you and not only their property ownership values, but the intangible values of this type of historical and unique community. I think if you do that and you adopt an R-3 zoning regulation you will be acting reasonably and your decision can legally be upheld. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: Thank you, Mr. Fleming. The next speaker will be Mr. Jakobi. Mr. Jakobi. Mr. William Jakobi: I'm Vice -President of the Tigertail Association. I live at 1946 Tigertail Avenue. My work is in the medical field, I'm a medical illustrator and a writer and I got into the Fair Isle situation because I felt strongly enough that the Grove was a place where human beings can live and just be human. That was a major factor in deciding me to come to this town. I didn't like much of the rest of Miami. I wasn't sure many years ago that I wanted to come to this town and it was the Grove that decided me that maybe you can move to Miami and find a life that is satisfying on these subtle and difficult to express non -economic grounds, the things that go to make people feel like persons rather than like investors, the things that make them feci life is enjoyable rather than being profitable. And its is hard for us to put these human values in words but I think that there is nobody in'this room including the Commissioners, 1 know who is unaware of the fact that these subtle human values that we are discussing here are the fundamental strain of the argument not only on Fair Isle but on other threatened developments in Coconut Grove which this master plan would admirably work to control. I have been attending hearings on the Fair Isle fight for about three years now and it struck me through many of the early hearings there was a certain kind of amorphousness in the discussions that made me feel that people really didn't realize what the impact of Fair Isle would be on this community. There were discus- sions of 20 versus 40 and people saying what difference does it make. I began to feel that people hadn't really visualized how this development will appear just visually in the commun- ity and I thought I would prepare and did show, you may know, to the citizen's advisory board the series of charts that I would like to show now which will enable us to put into visual perspective what Fair Isle or any such development, a development of any such scale, what it would do to this com- munity. I would like to show these to you now. I have to stand in the middle on this but I will talk loud. I think you will be able to hear me, the folks were a couple of months ago. If it is alright I will show it to the audience first and swing it around and show it to yourself. Ladies and 9entle- men, this is the cross sectional plan drawing of the area from South Bayshore Drive down to the bay roughly in the area that Fair Isle would front on and we have here South Bayshore Drive, here is Pelican Canal letting the boats in. Here is Fair Haven Place, Bayshore Lane and here is Biscayne Bay. Now this is a 21 SEP 1.9 1974 straight scale drawing of a ncale of one inch equaling fifty feet. So this is a non -controversial kind of just straight scale drawing. Now these are the scale relationships that We're looking at today; at this scale, your normal single story bungalow is about a quarter of an inch high. A two story house is•about a half an inch on it. Now keep this in your mind's eye when we awing this around and show it to the Commissioners.3 .... If this project or a project of any similar scale were to to through this would t'e the scale relationship that you'd be looking at. Mayor Ferrel Now four minutes have gone by. How much more time will you need? Two more minutes, all right, sir. If this lady doesn't object or... Is that alright? Mr. Jakobis What. we're really dealing with is at is thin going to do to people.' What is this going to look like to the human eye? Here is a quirkly done sketch from the standpoint of ten stories, quickly done, relationships in this drawing are accurate and calculated. I 'lave the figures to serve as the basis.... I'm prepared to show them to you... This is an accurate perspective drawing from Bayshore rrive looking down towards the water - Fair Isle is out there. Here we have a dwelling at 1650 Bayshore Drive inhab- ited by Walter Rurki,"a contractor, and I took the height of this dwelling as the basis of my calculation of relationships. Down at the water we have a two story waterfront mansion call- ed Bywater inhabited by the Gardiners. ,The proportional relat- ionships between this house and this which are the same height serving as the basis for my calculation Of scale. Now this is what you're looking at today. If fair Isle is built this is what you're going to be looking at. That's what you'll see from Bayshore. This is not at the Water's edge. I.urge you to keep in mind this is on Bayshore as you're traveling down a major artery through the Grove. These structures will domin- ate, will overpower and will completely take over your per- ception of what Coconut Grove is Here it is as we look at it today, gentlemen, down Street.... and if Fair Isle is built, in accurate perspective calculation this is what you'll be seeing. Here's one of the nicest photographs that I've seen of the view that we all love. This photograph appeared in the Miami Herald and I invite anyone of you to question who was it that took the trouble to publish this mar- velous photograph? Here is the ad as it appeared and here's the kind of value system that was hung on the view that we're trying to preserve. "Can you put'a price on a view like this? We have for $44,700 to $191,000.." You can't get more blatant than that. They didn't say come buy a condomunium with the nicest view in town. They said we have put a price on the view. We've been working very hard on this Fair Isle quest- ion for three years es you well know. There are four lawsuits as I count them against Fair Isle and We have to work very hard gentlemen and we urge you to be patient with us be- cause the pressures from the developers and the economic pres- sures are murdering, they're seen all over the country and we urge you to take a firm stand for human values, to make a decision that's right for the greatest number of people. Mayor Ferret Thank you very much. The next speakers, and I see it is Central Grove Association - James O. Boyle, M. Reed, T. brown and Elizabeth Bettener. Any of this on Fair Isle? All right, the Youth Council, Miss Bettner, Thomas Mc Glinn? Mr. Thomas B. Me Glinn: I'm president of the Bayshore Home- owners Association. I live at 1872 S. Sayshore Lane. In addition 22 SEP1.91974 to feeling very strongly that Fair Isle is the koy to this Whole Coconut Grove Master Plan, that what develops on Fair Isle and what you permit on Fair Isle is going to carry through the isle Grove, I've always been intrigued because every morn- ing I have a problem getting out onto Bayshore Drive with the traffic. Now one of the later speakers tonight will tell you that if, I understand, that if Bayshore Drive is widened to four lanes that Bayshore Drive traffic will be handled ade- quately by a thousand units of Fair Isle development. Now that is absolutely true. If you four lane Bayshore Drive you will be able to handle, Bayshore Drive with four lanes can handle 1000 units onto Bayshore Drive. Now this intrigued me so much I was out this afternoon ,to the D.O. T., the Department of Transportation and I talkHd to them about it so as far as that statement is concerned it is true. However, here is what the upshoot of it is. You will never be able to allow one more development anywhere along Bayshore Drive. What this thous- and units on Fair Isle will do will be bring back the traffic situation to Bayshore Drive almost like it is today, within 90% of what we've got now which is 62% overcrowded. Now if you allow 1000 units, according to DOT, if you allow 1000 units to be built on Fair Isleithe traffic on Bayshore Drive will cut off anymore development along Bayshore Drive all the way to Mac Farlane. It is just going to freeze it all because you can't allow anymore traffic to get on there than is now on it. It will preclude anymore development. Incidently, they told me that if in the county you four laned Bayshore Drive the County would require the developers to pay for it which I didn't know, an interesting speculation. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, that's all I have to say. Mayor Ferre: All right. sir. Thank you very much. Mr. Jack Lowell, Cabot, Cabot and Forbes. Mr. Jack Lowell: Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, ladies and gentle- men, I'm Jack Lowell, I'm from Boston although I currently re- side at 3820 Wood Avenue in Coconut Grove. We're about to be one of the largest land owners in Coconut Grove believe me, not by choice. We recognize the concerns that everybody has voiced this evening. It is our philosophy that when you come into a town you have to be able to get along with people if you're going to get anything done. We have a lot of money in this is- land. I would like to go back to Boston someday. The only way we're going to do it is by working together. I think the choice is clear for you gentlemen tonight, and Mrs. Gordon. We are either going to be able to work out a compromise posit- ion with the community over the next several months by defer- ring action on this particular study as it applies to Fair Isle or we're going to be put in the unfortunate position of having an R-3 zoning on this property which in our present pro- fessional opinion we do not believe we can live with. If that happens we really have only two options and that is (1) to take our losses and the other is to build the project that you saw the pictures of by Mr. Jakobi. We haven't had time to do our pictures. We'll be back with pictures sometime later. I really think that if we could that we'd prefer to let this matter rest until such time as we work out a compromise with the community covering the items that have been brought up tonight. That process has begun and we're in a difficult position until this foreclosure is completed. But believe me, we'll cooperate in any wak that we can. Thank you. Mayor Ferre; Thank you, Mr. Lowell, Cabot, Cabot and Forbes. I think the next name is Claire Filer. Is that right? 23 SEP 191974 r Mrs. Gordon: Would you ask Mt. Lowell what is his connect- ion with the Pair Isle? Mayor Perre:. Yee, Mr. Lowell is the attorney for Cabot, Cabot and Forbes who are one of the lenders to the project and there- fore. he is foreclosing the present property owner. Did t ex- press it right, Mr. Lowell? I b6g your pardon. Mr. Snyder is the attorney. Mrs. Gordon: You're not an attorney. You're a property owner? You're a receiver?....i Mayor Ferre: He's about to be a property owner, Rose. to other words he was one of the lenders on the project. Alright, Mr. Filer. Mr. Cleare Filer: I live at 1740 S. Bayshore Drive and sec- retary of Bayshore Homeowner's Association. First as a com- ment on a previous statement; these contacts of negotiation only began about 10 days or two weeks ago and they've had a few more days than that in the past four years to start talk- ing with us. Now as to the money and the loss that the mort- gagees appear, they think they're going to take, actually they had their chances four years ago. As a principal in law and I'm a businessman, not a lawyer, but a principal in law called red flags flying and I'll tell you redder flags never flew in the past four years as flew on Pair Isle yet in the face of all this opposition they went in anyway and sunk their money. Now as of June, 1971 they didn't have $9,000,000 in this. They only had two million and three hundred and some thousand in it. I've got Burton Goldberg's requisition of June, 1971 funds and the total outlay at that time was two million, three hundred and some thousand. Now the flags were plenty red by then and if there was a time to get out that was the time to get out. If there was a time to compromise or to come talk with us, in fact incidently, I wrote Burton a letter back about that time and suggested that he try to get with us on some kind of an alternative and particularly with reference to apartment building heights and his letter to me said he wasn't interested that to reduce the heights of the buildings would deprive a privile-ged few of the most fantas- tic views in the world. Now that was his attitude in his let- ter then and then on top of all that opposition Cabot and Cabot of Boston came in and bought out Continental Mortgage Investors, the mortgage concern on the island at that time; 1 think during late 1971 but a little after that time. Again, they knew the opposition and then in view of continuing opposition legal and otherwise they kept dumping money into it and dumping money into it. As far as I'm concerned they want to come to you and say help get me out of this spot we're in. One other point, i`_ you zone Fair Isle anything other than R-3 you're in affect spot zoning in the area. The nearby bayshore is proposed to be rolled back to a maximum of R-3 and the neighborhood is R-1 and there is just no good reason from a planning standpoint to zone Fair Isle anymore C,an R-3. In fact, the only excuse for it is that it is an island off shore. But it is only 600 feet away, the distance of 7, 8 or 9 houses down a street. The fact that it is 600 feet away doesn't make any difference as far as I'm concerned. In effect if you move the island up next to the mainland it would be in the same position as the other nearby properties that's being rolled back to R-3. So what is the difference if it is offshore? It is spot zoning and we do hold for R-3 for that island and of course, in total sup- port of the entire concept of the Planning Study. Thank you. 24 SEP 191974 Mayor Ferrel The next speaker is David Doheny. Mr. David Doherty: Mr. Mayor, honorable Commissioners, I'm speaking on the Pair Isle project and in opposition to the project as presently planned. I'll try not to take my entire four• minutes so as to make up somewhat the deficit. I live at 1778 S. Bayshore Lane and I'm an attorney and I work in downtown Miami. In response to the gentleman who was here earlier and I think he is gone now, I think his name was Mr. Sibert who said there would be no traffic problem in exiting from that area if Fair Isle was built, I respectfully differ. I live north, South Bayshore Lane at that particular point south of the canal, north of Fair Isle Street, the only egress to South Bayshore Drive is onto Fair Isle Street. The people living in my immediate area must either cross Fair Isle Street or exit onto Fair Isle Street in the face of whatever traffic would be coming off of Fair Isle at that particular time of morning. As Mr. Mc Glinn said earlier, it is difficult enough to get off of Fair Isle Street and onto South Bayshore Drive now and I would ask you to consider very carefully the impli- cations of worsening that situation to any material degree. With respect to the comments of Mr. Snyder and Mr. Lowell, I sympathize with their position. As an attorney and a business- man I've had occasion to be in positions similar to theirs. I'm very much aware of the current economic conditions which a great number of lenders, both trustees and smaller lenders have been in a position of loosing money on their loans. I personally have lost a good deal of money in my investments over the past year in stocks and in other types of real estate investments. We're not talking about investments, we're talk- ing about property values of homeowners who live in that com- munity and in other areas of the community in Coconut Grove and in the City of Miami. The issue is not investment and the issue is not recovery of a loan or an avoidance of a loss monetarily. Mr. Lowell with all due respect to his good wishes in wishing to effect a compromise which I think we must recognize and ac- cept in the spirit in which it has been given says he's going to go back to Boston when the matter is over. I'm going to live here the rest of my live and I think this Commission must weigh the rights of the investors against the rights of the property rights and the human values of the people of this City for the indefinite future. Thank you very much. Mayor Ferre: The next speaker is E. J. Van Treese, on fair Isle, Ted Somselle - you're relinquishing your time to Mr. Dean but Mr. Dean is not talking on Fair Isle. John Barrett. Mr. John Barrett: Mr. Mayor, out the outset I'd 'like to sug- gest that I'm likely to go beyond the four minutes. I think it is more likely that I'll run into seven or eight minutes. Mayor Ferre: Well, we permitted one gentleman to go 91 minutes Judge, so I'll use... Please try to keep it as close to four minutes but we'll let you go over. Mr. Barrett: I'll try my best. Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, my name is John R. Barrett. I am an attorney. I am the court appointed receiver for Sailboat Bay, otherwise known as Fair Isle. As receiver, and I think this is very necessary to make clear, I am a neutral party. I am not concerned about the liti- gating party. My duty, as defined by the law makes me a con- servator and a protector of the property and the value of the property. In that capacity I think that I'm obliged and obli- gated to bring certain facts to the attention of the Commis- sion. Facts which I think bear very materially on the matter 25 SEP 191974 1 that you're discussing this evening. There is a long history of litigation - presently, pending, active litigation. I think it is important for you to understand the nature of that pend- ing litigation. A law suit was filed before Judge Crawford's Court, the Circuit Court sometime ago. It is now presently be- fore the Florida Supreme Court on Certiorari. That matter deals directly with the validity of a permit previously issued by the City of Miami to Sailboat Key. There is a second lawsuit direct- ly affecting this property which is presently before Judge Fried- man's court in the Circuit Court. It comes to Judge Friedman as the result of an appeal taken before the Dade Zoning Appeals Board at which the City did not prevail. It is presently on appeal before Judge Friedman. Again, the question that that lawsuit deals with is the validity of a permit previously issued by the City of Miami to Sailboat Key. There is a third suit presently pending before the Federal Court of Judge Eden which likewise addresses itself to the question of previously issued pemits to Sailboat Key. The fourth suit is the suit seeking foreclosure from which I have been appointed receiver of the property. I am not in physical posession of all of the property. Guard services have been established and the property is now legally in my hands. Now I heard one previous speaker site var- ious authorities of law; I think appropriately so but I think the multitude of the cases which he sited would indicate that we have some serious legal questions involving Fair Isle. I don't think the previous speaker would suggest that he is pre- pared to dispose of these legal questions in suggesting that you have the legal right to proceed. It is clear to me that the major issue involved in all of this pending litigation is the validity of permits previously issued to this property. Now if the permits are invalid there is no question in my mind that you gentlemen can proceed and deal with this property virtually in any fashion you want to, upgrading or downgrading the zoning. Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, Judge, four minutes have elapsed. How much longer do you think you will need? Mr. Barrett: I would say another four minutes, sir. If, on the other hand, the lawsuits should resolve these questions so that the permits in questions should be judicially estab- lished as valid then in my judgement you simply would lack the authority to proceed to affect the zoning at Fair Isle. Now gentlemen and Commissioner Gordon, with all of these facts in mind and since there appears to be a serious doubt as to the City's legal position with reference to your ability to go in and now amend zoning presently existing, I think that I have a suggestion that might make sense for all parties concerned. I respectfully request as receiver of this property that this Commission simply defer any action with reference to Sailboat Key until such time as we have an opportunity to permit proper jurisdictional courts to resolve the questions involved. I think at that point the citizenry and this Commission will know precisely what its rights entitlements and powers are. If you chose not to do that and if you chose to precipitously and prematurely rezone this property as is suggested in this master plan I think the effect would obviously be to create yet another cloud on Sailboat Key. I think the effect also would be to seriously if not irreparably prejudice the rights of the lenders who in reliance upon that zoning advanced some $9,000,000 in connection with it and I think that it is clear that you would substantially reduce the value of the property from some 15 million dollars to approximately 3 to 5 million dollars. Now I think it is also important to understand that my suggestion of a stay does no prejudice whatever to the City of Miami. I 26 SEP 1.9 1974 aM simply asking that these matters await determination by a court of valid jurisdiction at which time the rights and the effects of all parties involved can be substantially studied. I would respectfully make reference also to a pre-emptory writ of mandamus which was issued by Judge Henry Balivan on the twenty-second day of September, 1972. That writ commands the City of Miami to forthwith give your final approval to Fair Island's applications for building permits. I have no k.iow- ledge available to me that that pre-emptory writ of mandamus has even been vacated. It is my understanding t'lat it is still in full force and effect. If so, I would respectfully submit that you would be proceeding illegally if you were attempt to act contrary to the instructions contained in such writ. Fin- ally. I wish to bring to the attention of the Commission some- thing that was brought to my attention only 30 seconds before I sat this evening. I was shown a copy of an un.iumbered ord- inance describing a Central Island District. I understand tht it most specifically refers to Claughton Island. I understand that the purpose and import of it would be to create virtually a new generic zoning classification for islands if that is the case, perhaps Fair Island All right, sir, I will wind up immediately. I would simply suggest that I don't think that this Commission wishes to deal differently with the same generic types of property. I think this is a compelling reason for again delaying any hasty or prompty or ill considered thought. I would simply suggest that without prejudice to the City and without intending to do any irreparable damage or prejudice to some of the people involved in this situation, it would perhaps be preferrable to simply the question of Fair Island until until these questions in court are resolved. Thank you, sir. Mayor Ferre: How much time elapsed on the total amount, Mr. Southern? Mr. Southern: 81/2 minutes. 'Mayor Ferre: Now Judge, I would like to impose on you to stay for a while because I'm going to have the unpleasant task which sometimes happens to public officials but that's the way the ball bounces and you are a very respected lawyer in our midst and you also served this City of Miami with a great deal of distinction. Unfortunately, I'm advised by our attorney that he does not agree with your legal posture here and therefore, I was, going to ask you some questions and recognize him for a statement but that's going to take a half an hour when we open all of that so what I would like to do is I would like for you to submit, further than what you said here on the record for 81 minutes, if you want to sub- mit a statement in writing to Mr. Lloyd, I would like to also ask Mr. Lloyd to respond to it in writing so that the Commission and the public will have the benefit of our legal standing. Now i didn't have the pleasure of serving with you when you were City Attorney but in the years that I've served here we've been very strict about following the guidelines as presented by our City Attorney. Sometimes we like it, sometimes we don't but we have to go by that. So I would respectfully request that you do that and that Mr. Lloyd respond. Mr. Barrett: May I just insert this, your honor; I worked with John Lloyd for a good number of years there are few lawyers in this community for whom I have greater respect and I'll be most happy to exchange ideas with Mr. Lloyd and if we disagree it only again re-emphasizes the basic point that I'm attempting to make. A court of competent jurisdiction is now considering these questions, a court of competent jurisdiction and only that court will ultimately decide those questions. I'm respect- fully suggesting the preceding without reference to those court decisions would be premature. 27 SEP 191974 Mayor Ferre: Now Mt. Barrett, theme are #orie other speakers. Can remain for a while so that then you Can answer solfle questions from the COMMissiot ? Mr. Barrett: I'd be happy to. Mr. Wayne Allen: May I just have one request please? If the judge is going to submit a brief to the City Commission can we have the opportunity to submit a reply brief once we have his? Mayor Ferre: Yes, sir. It will be available to the public and anyone who wants to get involved. Now I want to very clearly, this is not a court. You understand, so we're not judging things on merit or anything like that, or legal merit. Mr. Barrett: Your honor, I really have to interject at this point that in view of what I had said prc'v iou'i ly I do not want to get placed in the position where I am litigating for or on behalf of one position or the other. What my function is again, as a conservator of the property is to remind this Commission of certain material facts affecting that property but I really don't want to get into a legal hassel which appropriately would not be my function. Mayor Ferre: This is not a court and we're not going to be getting involved in that but of course the public has a right to respond anyway that they wish to but we're going to be guided by our City Attorney. Mr. Barrett: I wouldn't blame you a bit. Mayor Ferre: Now, the next speaker is Mr. E. J. Van Truse, oh I'm sorry. Mrs. Dolly Mac Intyre, no. Pat Dun, Pat Cox, James Deen, Frances Gardner, Prank Gardner, Robert Hyvaert on Fair Isle. Now, we have the t3reuton family, Robert, Isaac, Roosevelt, anybody want to speak on Fair Isle and James, Anthony Percher, Seth Sklarey. Mr. Seth Sklarey: My name is Seth Sklarey, Box 33000, Coconut Grove. Perhaps we ought to change the name of Pair Isle to Unfair Isle because it seems that no matter what we do somebody is going to be at some kind of disadvantage. But I propose a solution that might be a little bit out in left field but I'd like to propose it to you for your consideration and that is to make Fair Isle a park, to make Fair Isle a public park. Judge Synder said that what he would like to do is just get out of the deal with a full shirt. Well, maybe we could give him only half a shirt but I think; you know if we gave him 415 million dollars for Fair. Isle it would be worth for the benefit of the public if we could find the money somewhere and decide to do it fast enough so it is not worth $20,000,000. Mayor Ferrer Mr. Sklarey, I hate to tell you this but you've beat me to the punch. That's exactly what I was going to reco- mmend this evening but I'll get into that later on. I'm sorry for stealing your thunder. I would like to answer another comment by Mr. Snyder and that was, he said that from 1961 up to now a lot of people hadn't said anything. Well the his- tory of Fair isle - it was offered to Burton Goldberg for a price of $2,000,000 on the assumption that Burton Goldberg could not possibly get the financing to buy Fair Isle because the island had a navigational servitude on it which meant the navy could come in at any time, put battleships or whatever they wanted to. As a result of a suit in 1969 and as a result 28 SEP 191974 of a lot of maneuvering,. he got that lifted, the group that offered it to him tried to back out and he pinned them to the wall and made them convey it at the $2,000,000 price. Mayor Ferre: (INAUDIBLE) Mx. Sklarey: Very briefly, there was no way that Fair isle could be used for anything up to about 1969 because it had a navigational servitude on it. Despite the fact that it had R-5 zoning on it nobody could build anything there because no investor in their right mind would loan money on it. Of course, REIT's, you know from the history of them you know might not be in that category anyway Mr. Plummer: You completely lost me somewhere along the line. Mr. Sklarey: Judging by some of the investments that REIT have gotten into and have lost their shirts in and gotten broke on. Mayor Ferre: Anybody that laughs at his own jokes is alright with me. Mr. Sklarey: Anyway, that's my suggestion, that we make it a park and if the Commission can't come to a conclusion on that perhaps we could put it on the ballot and let the people decide it. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: All right. Plummer, the roast beef we had for lunch won't be warm until 8:00. Now I'm going to give you the chance to ask your questions of the judge. Where did Judge Barrett go? Mr. Plummer said his questions would be very brief and I said we'd all be very grateful to him. Mr. Plummer: Judge, if this Commission were to acquiesce to your point, can you give me a ball park figure of approximately how long you think it will take for a decision to be handed down? Mr. Barrett: Commissioner, I'll try to respond to that as candidly and as honestly as 1 can - I don't know and I don't know for the reason that whenever a decision is made it is always subject to appeal and there is just simply no way to prejudge those things at this stage. Now let me give you an example of what I'm speaking of. In the first suit that is presently before the supreme court on certiorari, if the court grants certiorari and if the court were to rule favorably for one side, it would dispose the matter immediately. If the court were to rule unfavorably it would be remanded back for trial in the Circuit court level. There is no way in that event to prejudge the time. Judge Friedman's matter which is on appeal, as I say from the Dade County Appeal Board. Pre- sumably, that would be definitive when Judge Friedman ruled on that and I understand there is a hearing scheduled in that as of November. As to the federal court before Judge Eden, I understand that there are now motions to dismiss presently pending. If they were granted that would end the lawsuit. If they were not granted a trial would then he required and an appeal could possibly flow from that. (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Barrett: My understanding of the suit is that an indi- vidual citizen has sued the United States Government as well as Sailboat Key contending that there was an improper issuance 29 SEP 1.9.197+ 1 of a dredge and fill permit the reason that there had not been a prior environmental study. Now my understanding also is that insofar as the buikheading is concerned insofar as the dredging and filling is concerned a very very substantial 0ortion of it goes back all the way to 1929 that the island eexieted, has existed for that length of period and I don't Want to prejudge the outcome of that lawsuit nor do I want to negative anyone's position on that lawsuit but at least the United States Attorney in that lawsuit who finds himself in the same position as Sailboat Bay feels that they have a very excellent chance of dismissing that .. ices, sir. Mr. Plummer: (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Barrett: No► but we hope to finish the lawsuit completely within nine months. Now that sounds like a long time but if you knew the many defendants that are involved in this suit pleas the fact that I don't know at this moment how much oppo- sition we're going to get from Mr. Goldberg, if Mr. Goldberg would cooperate it would be much less time than that but I have to reason to believe at this moment that Mr. Goldberg is go- ing to cooperate with us or anyone else that I know of. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Lloyd, as I understand the posture at this time we, the City have withdrawn the permits which they need to proceed. Is that correct? Mr. Lloyd: Yes, sir. Mr. Plummer: So really in fact. that is what we've been taken to court; their contention is their permits are valid - our contention is that they are not valid. Mayor Perre: May I interrupt because I think, and you stop me if I'm wrong, the process was this: We said they no longer have a permit. Now there is an administrative relief proced- ure on this and that is before a Metro Board, what is the name on it. Mr. Lloyd: That's the Board of Rules and Appeals. Mayor Perre: The Metro Board of Rules and Appeals. They went, by they, I mean Goldberg and Company went and appealed ft and that board overruled the City of Miami. The City of Miami then went to court and is now in a judicial process. It is at a lower court, we haven't gone to appellate yet, have we? Mr. Lloyd: No, we're before Judge Friedman. That's the one Judge Barrett mentioned to us. Mr. Barrett: I would like to sort of complete that, if I may. My understanding is that procedures such as this, however, Judge Friedman is a Circuit Judge, he sits in an appellate capacity. Mr. Lloyd: That's correct. Mr. Plumber: Well, What I'm trying to establish, Mr. Mayor, i is this. If we were to wait until the outcome of these suits is my thinking correct that nothing could be done on that is- land until the outcome of those suits? In other words.... Can I make it simpler? In other words, if we were to wait can anything proceed further before the outcome of those suits? That's what I'm trying to get at. 30 SEP 191974 Mr. blOyds There is a possibility that soritethiitq could be done. Of course, the outcolte. you see the distinct possib- ility is this that the lout action before Judge Friedman with respect to the permit will be finished long before the other suits are and of course if the permit were reinstated yes, Vie? would be allowed to build. Of course actually, they Would be allowed to build In any event under a non -conforming tine even if you rezoned.. this is the point where I had in a minor fashion disagreed with Judge Barrett. Actually, the net result if the permit were declared to be still valid and you rezoned the property the building could be built but it would then be a non -conforming use. Mr. Plummer: Well, let me get my point there. What you're telling me then in fact is that if the lawsuit about the val- idity of the permit is held by the court to be valid then what Judge Barrett has said is really not holding. In other words they could proceed. Mr. Lloyd: Oh yes, they could proceed regardless of how you zoned the property. Now of course if the City's position is upheld by Judge Friedman and the withdrawal of the rermit was decided to be correct if the property were to be rezoned R-3, of course, they could not proceed with the planned construction. Mr. Plummer: There is a danger that something could proceed if we were to wait. Mr. Lloyd: Oh yes, there is. Mr. Snyder: May I say something that might be of assistance. I know you have called on the other attorneys and I thought maybe you should out of fairness just give me 30 seconds. There is one other lawsuit which states that even if there has been proper zoning this whole matter could be enjoined if it were determined to be a public nuisance but even with that lawsuit that still pending and there's no way of stopping the development as you've correctly noted at this time. There is one other thing that I think is sort of an incorrect assumption. I agree that there is a trustee appointed who is appearing before you but I disagree with his statement that he is inde- pendent and totally neutral and that he said that his basic purpose is to protect the value of the land. Now that locks him into a very unneutral position with respect to his state- ments as to the property value and if I may I'd like to submit a copy of the Third District Court's opinion in this public nuisance matter so you would be aware of that. Mayor Ferre: All right, give that to Mr. Lloyd. Mr. Barrett: May I respond to that, I consider that rather crucial to my position. I would refer council to recognize established and long standing law in the State of Florida indi- cating the disinterested, the indiffered nature of a receiver's performance. The fact that he must, in fact, walk a very narrow line between the interested parties involved. I would remind him also that both by statute and by law I am charged with the responsibility of preserving the value of property and that is what I'm doing. Mayor Ferre: Judge, I think it is a question of semantics and I understand, I think we all understand both sides. Now we're going to take a five minute break. Please, let's not make it more than 5 minutes because we have a long evening. 31 SEP 191974 Thereupon the City Connniesio:, recesaed for five minutes. Mayor Perre: Ladies and gentlemen, let's settle down now. We're going to go on til eight O'clock and then we're going to break for half an hour. Now ladies and gentlemen, I have the following proposal for,my fellow Commissioners... Well, I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion on it. Here's the sit- uation as I see it. We're paying today for the obvious mistakes of.a Commission going back thirteen or fourteen years and I'm not a lawyer, not a judge and we don't sit here as a court. I see a iot of equity in most of the arguements on both sides. There is no question that two or three or four forty -story build- ings with a thousand units would absolutely be in my personal opinion, a monstrosity in that location and I think it would be most unfortunate for all of the community. I see Mr. Cabot, Cabot and Cabot's position represented by Mr. Lowell; they're investors, they've put money into this thing and they want to see their money back. You can't blame them for that. Now I think that the solution and this is something that we as a com- munity should have done years ago with that particular property, is to make it into a park. Now how do we go about doing that? Well obviously you cannot have confiscation of property or tak- ing of property without due process and without just compensat- ion which means money. Somewhere along the line we need money to do it. Now the City of Miami presently doesnot have funds allocated or dedicated or legally that can be used for the pur- pose of purchasing that property. I would recommend and the only way legally that we can do this, and Mr. Attorney, you correct me after I make my statement; is that we put this on the November ballot, this year and let the people of Miami make a decision as to whether or not they would want to purchase that island, those twenty acres as a park. Now it is my per- sonal opinion that the people of Miami will overwhelmingly vote for that, not just the people of Coconut Grove, but I think most of the people of Miami when you give them a chance to vote for something that they recognize as logical and bene- ficial to the community as a whole, will vote for it and the proof of the pie in the last four years is that they have over- whelmingly voted for almost all of the bond issues that we have recommended to the people including $40,000,000 for parks and how many millions of dollars for police and that... and $87,000,000 that have been voted by the people of this commun- ity for improvements. Now, since we do not have appraisals on the property 1 do not think that we could property put the amount on the bond issue unless we were able to move very quick- ly and I don't know whether that's possible or not. I rather doubt it. But I think we could do this much. We could certain- ly put it up and we have to have some legal research on this. At worst, it would be a straw vote of intent. Certainly in my opinion, that would be a clear mandate from the people as to the intent. If we could do more than a straw vote that would be better in my opinion. If we cannot do a straw vote, I mean if we couldn't the worst would be a straw vote then I would imagine the process would be once we get to the appraisal level or if we could come to an agreement on the price on a negotiated basin then we would have to go to a specific ballot and it would have to be a special election. Is that correct? Mr. Lloyds This is correct, your honor. Mayor Ferree All right, now that's my proposal this evening and I think this solves everybody's, as I see it, it would solve everybody's problems, It would save the property, we would have it for the public perpetuity, it would do equity to the owners or the future owners or the debtors of whatever 32 SEP 1.91974 they're Called and 1 think it Would just clarify the Whole situation. Mrs. Gordon: Mr, mayor, are you moving that? If you will, will you take an amendment also? Mayor Ferre: You know hoer 1 am about thest things, Rose. I don't Care who moves it. The thing is to do it. Mrs. Gordon: All right. Let me speak then to the issue be- cause I firmly believe there isn't any compatible zoning that we could apply to that property that is going to make anybody happy. I believe in the openspace concept but I think perhaps that we need to direct our manager to immediately discover which areas of funding there might be laying out there in the wide blue yonder that would provide us with the necessary funds for open space acquisition and I do know that there are funds on a federal level and on the state level for the preservation of open space and I can't think of a better place that the state or the federal government could put their money. So I think perhaps, in combination with -your thought which I think is a good one, that we not waste anytime whatsoever but immediately direct our manager to pursue this course of action. But I would like to bring up another point if I might because I think that perhaps we're not really reading our agenda because tonight no matter what we do tonight won't change the zoning on any- thing. This is the Coconut Grove Zoning Study, it is a compre- hensive neighborhood study of future proposals for land use, zoning circulation and community facilities for Coconut Grove and it would be our position tonight to accept this, 1 wouldn't say would be our position, but it might be my position to ac- cept this study because it is only a first step in a series of public hearings that are going to have to be held on first the Zoning Board level and then on this Commission level to change specific locations to the recommendation of the comprehensive plan. The comprehensive plan concept is long overdue for the City of Miami and as you know, my fellow Commissioners all know that we budgeted some $391,000 last year for a total compre- hensive plan of the City of Miami and this is one phase of it. So if we're going to budget that kind of money for comprehen- sive planning and we're going to ignore it then we'd might as well save the money and spend it for something else. So this is my personal opinion and I just felt like it was a necessary thing to say and I agree with you, Mr. Mayor, that we do have to try to save it for open space. Mr. Plummer: I want to raise maybe a legal question just more so for the record to make sure we're not getting ourselves into trouble. Mr. Mayor, I raise the question, are we really acting out of order as Mrs. Gordon has just stated and it was my idea of coming here this evening that this is not a single issue type of hearing. This is a comprehensive hearing which affects more than one parcel. This affects an entire tract and it was my opinion that before we took any action whatsoever that we would hear from all people about all matters relating to this study. Now just for the record, Mr. Mayor, I happen to think your idea is a great one but I don't think that this is the time until we have had the input to hear the entire pro- posal that is before us this evening. It would then be said that we acting on a single item which we are not. We are act- ing on a comprehensive plan involving a great amount of parcels. So I only question the legality or maybe even a moral point. Mr. Lloyd, if you would speak to that. Mayor Ferre: Well J.L., before he does that, Mr. Lloyd 3:� SEP 19.1974 • 1 You see, .fudge Barrett, he may have left by now, came in here the other day and I think an associate of yours was here, there was an attorney Mere. Who? Mr. Traurig, that's right, Mr. Traurig waft here All right, Mr. Traurig representing the lehdora on that project said yhy don't you remove Fair Isle from the whole project from the whole item because of the legal and so on. Judge Barrett stated then what he stated today, Now I stopped them both.' I said now look, you gentlemen have the right to Speak on this because we're going to have apublic hearing on the general matter and not all, but most of the in- terested parties will be attending and that would really be the more appropriate time for you to make your presentation. Now, we've had an hour and some minutes on this and it seems to me that what is being proposed here has nothing to do basic- ally with the public hearing because it is a completely new proposal and it is a completely new solution and all I'm ask- ing is that we put it on the ballot in November and let the people decide. It is just that simple and I don't think so that nobody is misguided that we can do more than put it on a straw ballot. But that will be a clear mandate from the people of this community as to what they want to do and we'll have to pursue that vigorously. Now if we can do it in a more specific legal format then our attorney has to tell us if there is a more vigorous vehicle where we cannot only put it on the ballot but proceed right after the election in November then I'm for that too. But 1 would really like to, since there will be a lot of people that will be leaving, and Judge Barrett and a lot of the attorneys here, I would like to get that question resolved if it is the will of this Commission to try to put it on the ballot. (INAUDIBLE) Mayor Ferre: We're going to do that, Monte but.... We under- stand but this is.... Mr. Reboso: Mr. Mayor, may I say something? I think we have been discussing this item of Fair Isle for quite a long time and I don't think it has anything to do with the rest of the agenda even though it's including Coconut Grove. We will be in a better position to vote now on item LWthan maybe two hours from .now. For me it is clear after all the time that the City of Miami Planning Department has been taking in this study and all the people involved that we should move forward. Mrs. Gordon: I tell you, the Mayor asked us to let everybody who wants to speak speak before we make any motions but I'm ready to make a motion anytime you're willing to accept one, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Reboso: I am ready to move for approval of 1 (a). Mrs. Gordon: That sounds fine and I would not accept Fair Isle or anyother portion of the comprehensive plan from the motion. It is in total as recommended by the Planning Depart- ment with the modifications and by the Planning Board with its modifications. Mr. Reboso: Exactly like it is right here tonight in the agenda. Mrs. Gordon: Fine, you're moving that? I'll second that. (INAUDIBLE) 34 SEP 191974 Mayor Ferro: I want to explain, and Mr. Lloyd, you're going to have to give us a legal opinion on this. low, I'm perfect- ly willing and we'll accept the Motion and a second on item 1 (a) but I want to ask you whether or not that would create legal problems if we put it on the ballot in November. Would there be any legal problems on that? Mr. Lloyd: The problem is not really a legal problem, it is a mechanical problem with the Voting Registrar of .fade County, whether or not they can get it on the ballot. Mayor Ferre: That's somthing that we'll have to find out. You see. I'm trying to find out which comes first, the chicken or the egg. Mr. Reboso: This would be first reading, Mr. Mayor, so that means if we approve to put it on the ballot in November. Mrs. Gordon: This says a resolution, is this an ordinance? Mayor Ferre: There is no second reading on this. No, sir. This is a resolution. If you pass this resolution now that's it. Mrs. Gordon: This is a resolution accepting the recommendat- ions of the Planning Department No UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Mayor, you haven't heard me yet. You're bypassing me. If you're talking about approving this total plan. Mayor Ferre: No, sir. We're talking about just item 1 (a). Mr. Lloyd: Well item 1 (a) is the entice plan, Mr. Mayor and I was about to speak to that myself. 1 (a) is the entire plan. It is a resolution... No, it isn't. It is the entire plan including the Fair Isle. Mrs. Gordon: That's why I asked you if we were going to let the rest of the people speak before we make any motions. Mayor Ferre: We've got to let the rest of the people speak. All right, does anybody want to move this on this ballot? I pass the gavel to the Vice -Mayor and I'd like to be recog- nized for the purpose of making a motion. I move that the City Attorney be instructed to prepare on an emergen:y basis a resolution placing on the November ballot the question of the purchase of the property known as Fair Isle for the purposes of a City of Miami park with the stipulation to the manager that he proceed immediately to seek federal, state or other sources of moneys for open air, including County Decade of Progress funds and that it be put on the ballot for the Nov- ember election if possible so that it become a direct mandate to the City but if not, at least on a straw ballot approach to it so that we will proceed forthwith for that purpose. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor. perhaps it would be better to have it in two separate motions. I think it could be, don't you? Mayor Ferre: I don't care. Do you want to take... Mrs. Gordon: Yes, I think so because one thing is a straw ballot Which really isn't going to affect anything really be- cause we won't be able to buy it, we won't have the money, we won't even know how much and the other will be to direct the manager to vigorously pursue all avenues, and I'll move 35 SEP 191974 that dfie for either federal, state or CoUnty funding to put - Chaise this land. Mayor Ferre: All right, well then let's move the first one. X * e the first one. Mrs. Gordofi: I'll sec end it. The following motion was introduced by Mayor Ferre who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 74-1039 A MOTION INSTRUCTING THE CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE ON AN EMERGENCY BASIS THE NECESSARY INSTRUMENTS TO CAUSE TO BE PLACED ON THE NOVEMBER 5TH BALLOT THE QUESTION OF THE PURCHASE OF PROPERTY KNOWN AS FAIR ISLE FOR PURPOSES OF A CITY OF MIAMI PARK, AND THAT IF THIS QUESTION CANNOT BE PLACED ON SAID BALLOT IN SUCH A MANNER THAT THE ANSWER WOULD BE A LEGAL MANDATE TO THE COMMISSION THEN IT BE DONE IN SUCH A MANNER AS TO CONSTITUTE A "STRAW BALLOT" APPROACH TO THE QUESTION. Upon being seconded by Mrs. Gordon the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote -AYES: Mr. Plummer, Mayor Ferre, Rev. Gibson, Mrs. Gordon and Mr. Reboso. NOES: None. Mrs. Gordon: I'll move the second one which was that we vigor- ously pursue, direct the manager to vigorously pursue all fund- ing sources including the federal, state and county. INAUDIBLE Mayor Ferre: If we get three votes here today or more that will happen. Mrs. Gordon: Nothing precludes that. Mayor Ferre: We're not talking to that right now. Do you understand, Mr. Alien? The question is very apparent, obviously. This has nothing to do with that. That may pass and it may fail. Thereupon the Mayor resumed the chair. Mayor Ferre: The motion is that we pursue vigorously the fund- ing of this in federal, state and county levels. The following motion was introduced by Mrs. Gordon who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 74-1040 A MOTION REQUESTING THE CITY MANAGER TO VIGOROUSLY PURSUE METHODS OF FUNDING, INCLUDING FEDERAL, STATE AND COUNTY SOURCES, THE ACQUISITION OF PROPERTY KNOWN AS FAIR ISLE FOR OPEN SPACE PURPOSES. Upon being seconded by Mr. Reboso the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote -AYES: Mr. Reboso, Rev. Gibson, Mrs. Gordon, Mr. Plummer and Mayor Ferre. NOES: None. 36 S E P 191974 Thereupon the City Commission recessed for dinner. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I just want to remind you that 1 definitely for one on this Commission aft going to hold you to your promise earlier that we are walking out of the door at 10 O Clock. Mayor Ferre: promisee, promises. Mr. Plummer: That's one you're going to keep. Mayor Ferre: I keep all of my promises, Mr. Plummer, or shall I say most of them. We're all human. All right, Mr. Mike Simonoff. How long do you want to speak? Mr. Michael Simonoff: I don't think I'll be four minutes. I'd like to talk about the over all plan as it is submitted and I think it is a good plan with certain exceptions. The first thing I think we have to look at is what the first two and a half hours of this conversation took into account and that is zoning something and not sticking by it and if we adopt this plan basically as it is submitted and enforce and stick to it then you're not going to have the situation.... Mayor Ferre: I don't understand, you're talking about Fair Isle Mr. Simonoff: Yes, I'm just backing up for a second because you've had all of this controversy for all this time on Fair Isle where I feel the rest of the Grove is equally if not more important. Now, I think that as I said the plan is good and probably should be accepted with certain exceptions. First, I think that the R-1B atonipMain Highway from just south of Mac Farlane down to Ransom School should have a designation in this study instead of keeping it R-18 and I'm involved in that area, I think it should be changed to R-1 with the addit- ive that the developers which eventually will be involved in that would go for a planned area development or planned unit development. It is not economically feasible to keep that area as R-1B. It's fine to keep the artist colonies and the differ- ent activities in there. I feel that is a very important thing in the flexibility of the future design in that area. Secondly, the traffic flow, I believe instead of coming through the Grove should be routed around and taken into account that these roads that Pardon me? Well, I think you can make a circumfer- ence around certain areas, widen those roads, control the traf- fic, I mean if they can run buses backwards on South Dixie High- way I certainly think they should be able to make a circumfer- ence around Coconut Grove and have arterials flow in for the people who use it all the time and not be caught in the bumper to' bumper traffic. I think that is going to eliminate a lot of the congestion. Now the third thing I'd like to speak about is the environmental preservation districts that the new Tree Ordinance is going to take into account and I feel that we really ought to accept these things as a basis of the Grove Study tonight because we have at least a little bit of time until they will be brought into bearing on other areas that the interim time between the old ordinance going out and the new one coming in. Whatever time I have left, I may just want to say a word afterwards. Mrs. Gordon: May I ask someone a question, please. Mr. Acton, i want to know something that is very important. Mayor Ferre: Rose, excuse me for interrupting you. I'11, you know, I'll take Commission questions as long as they're not long questions. Other wise we're going to get off 3'7 S E P 191974 Mrs. Gordon? No, it is a point of information. I think it is a directive really to us so that we know what we're doing. I want to as:k you this question because it is very pertinent. You have presented us with a document which outlines a lot of policy matters which we concur, perhaps, I do anyway. But there you also present to us a very delineated zoning map of proposed zoning and maybe Mr. Lloyd has to answer this question. If we vote affirmatively for this Comprehensive Planning Study which is what I call it, a Comprehensive Planning Study which includes this proposed zoning map, are we then precluding war - selves from any future public hearings perhaps after hearing testimony of thinking differently on any single particular item? Now will you answer that. Mr. Lloyd: I'm sorry, I didn't get all of the question. Mrs. Gordon: All right, I'll try again. If we adopt this in total and then we're going to have public hearings on specific items, the position we adopt tonight, does it ,meclude us from any deviation from the plan as outlined in this book tonight? Mr. Lloyd: No, it does not. All you're doing tonight, if you do, is adopting the Comprehensive Plan in principal and it does not preclude a deviation ordinance when you finally adopt it after public hearing. Mrs. Gordon: On any specific item? Mr. Lloyd: On any specific item, that is correct. (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Andrews: ... ......the memorandum that was sent along with those documents indicated that these were presented to the Com- mission as format and that we already knew that there were go- ing to be adjustments to these ordinances and that you would be hearing from the public so that we could gather that infor- mation also and the Planning Department would and then would be in a position to present t, you more closely the final ord- inances that you would be considering. (INAUDIBLE) Mrs. Gordon: Not tonight, no. Mr. Simonoff: The ordinance, or this study, you're just ask- ing for a principle to be accepted but we're not talking about any zoning classifications.... Mrs. Gordon: Yes, we have to go through the Zoning Board for public hearing and then back here. Mr. Simonoff: If this is accepted in principle will those areas then be designated as the areas approved by the Commis- sion to go into zoning so that they will then pass on that basis? Mr. Acton: Mr. Mayor, I think I can clarify that. It was the intention of the Planning Department after the public hearing and in accord with whatever action the Commission took tonight in regards to this document to amend those portions of the document necessary by their action and submit it back to the Commission. In other words, we have suggested a number of mod- ifications depending on the action they take we'll modify the various pages and the maps and so forth so it will be in accord with their intent. 38 SEP 191974 Mr. Qi►t' ff = 0ou1d I then request that the area from Main Highway southeasterly from t.he, almost from Mac Farlane down be inelnded in this as a change rather than left out completely in this study? I think it is a vital part of this study. Mr. Acton: It is part of the study but it was not our intent to change the zoning on that portion of Coconut Grove at this time in terms of classification but rather deal it on a basis of, especially when it comes to the planned area development. I think we could take them up at the time that the applicant petitions the City of Miami for consideration of a particular classification. Mr. Simonoff: On a parcel by parcel basis? Mr. Acton: That's correct. (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Acton: I said, Mr. Mayor, that it was our intent after this meeting and depending on whatever action the Commission took we would modify both portions of this document in accord with the recommended modifications the Commission desired, their direction. Mrs. Gordon: As I understand it, this is a guideline for a new zoning plan that will develop in Coconut Grove but we are not bound to this in every detail. Mr. Acton: That is correct. That's correct. (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Lloyd: Yes, unless you determined that that was all after your final ordinance. whatever you did you'd determine that was going to be your final action. Mr. Plummer: Let me use a specific example. Bobby Dykes came before this Commission asking that his ... We told him to wait until the 19th. Now, actually... what you would have told him was that there was no way the 19th until this Commission acts on that particular parcel. Is that correct? Mr. Acton: No, you're not bound by any action that you take on this document. What you're doing now is you're declaring that you agree with the entire intent of this document but you're not bound. Mr. Dykes, if he were here tonight and pre- sented his case, you could take action on his petition tonight if you so desired. You're not precluded from doing that. Mayor Ferre: All right. Can we proceed with the public port- ion of this. Mr. Tschumy. Mr. Ted Tschumey: First of all, I'd like to commend as I've done in the past on behalf of the Civic Club, the Planning Department for its efforts throughout the past year in evolv- ing this study. As you know, there has been a great deal of citizen participation in this. We're very thankful for it. We're glad to have been able to take part in it and to help evolve this study. Obviously we feel that Coconut Grove is a very unique area and very worth working for and very sensitive to preserve and enhance through the study. I've got several specific comments about the study which I'd like to make. The first one regarding the Grand -Main -Mac Farlane intersection. The plan recommends the narrowing of Mac Farlane as we spoke 39 SEP 191974 about earlier his evening resulting in greater landscaping, wider sidewalks, separate bicycle lane particularly in reduc- ing the scale of the street to one which is much more in con- cept with the village center. I think you'll find that most of the citizens in the Grove are very much in favor of this. Concerning the intersection itself, the Plan calls for wider sidewalks, separate bicycle lane, new landscaping, shorter pedestrian crosswalk distances. The Plan, as Jack explained, would simplify vehicular turning movements and relieve congest- ion, make it more safer, more pleasant and more convenient for vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists. It sounds like it can't be true, but apparently it is and we're very much in favor of this. Secondly, I would like to talk very briefly about this C-2A zoning for the village center. I think this is really very important inorder to maintain the village scale that we now have. I think it is important to pay careful attention to this and to enact this particular item. Thirdly, regarding the concept ofrthe central village parking area, this has several problems involved with it. We recognize that the location of the central parking area as designated in the plan is really the best one for the central business area but the plan calls for the annexation of the Texaco Station which is there and this we feel would be a mistake, a mistake for several reasons. (1) the central area needs a gas station and this is one that is located in the central area and (2) the people who own the gas station have spent a great deal of time and effort build- ing up this business and have been a very real service to the Grove. Now as an architect it seems to me that it is fully possible to keep both of these things side by side. I think it takes careful study, careful planning, cooperation between the legal department and things such as air rights and that type of thing but we would urge very much that we try to keep both of these things to put the parking lot there which we feel is important and yet to keep the gas station there as well. It would seem to me that this could be mutually bene- ficial to the two things as well. I think that really is basically all I have to say. There is one more comment though, and that is as I recall at the last meeting regarding the pro- tection of the Master Plan that you, Mr. Plummer, proposed that the plan would be protected until such time as its final implementation. My question is this: If in fact we assume, and we certainly hope that the plan will be adopted tonight and then we'll go through the implementation procedure, but it is my understanding that regardless of what happens tonight the plan is still protected and that anybody that wants to do some- thing counter to the plan has to come before you. Is that not correct? Mrs. Gordon: That's right. Mr. Tschumey: Good. Mrs. Gordon: I have a question, Mr. Acton. Has the Planning Board acted on the (B) portion and the (C) portion? Mr. Acton: Yes. Mrs. Gordon: They have then we are in a position to move those two portions tonight for first reading? Mr. Acton: Yes, you could do.that but it is my recommendation that you defer those items until the Department has had a chance to come back and incorporate modifications that would give it more flexibility and courage; such uses as theatres for the performing arts through use of zoning incentives.... 40 SEP 191974 Mrs. Oordon s Could you do that on the second reading? Mr. Acton: Mr. Lloyd. Mrs. Gordon: The inclusion of additional uses into the ord- inance under tb), could that be done on second reading? Mr. Lloyd: Yes. Mrs. Gordon:. Ok, then we could move this on first reading tonight? Mr. Lloyd: If you wish. Mr. Dick Danziger: I'm speaking for Ken Treister. My name is Dick Danziger, I'm president of the Coconut Grove Chamber of Commerce and I'm speaking for Ken Treister who is a Board of Directors member. There are two items that we have in content- ion on the Master Plan. One is in VI on the bottom of the page we would like to see eliminated, it is on the last para- graph "on a trial basis to close Main Highway between Fuller Street and Mac Farlane to create a pedestrian plaza the length of the block, one way on Fuller Street northbound and a trial period of six days followed by a public hearing on net impact of closure"; we as the Chamber would not like to see that take place. Also, on page 33 on the top of that page this is also a closing on Fuller Street, an additional modification be made that would make permanently closed Fuller Street and convert it to a pedestrian plaza. The opportunities for creating an outstanding public place that would enrich the social focus and physical environment of the village center, and so on and so forth. I did take a survey of the Fuller Street merchants and I did it in its entirety_ and there was only one merchant out of all of them on Fuller Street that did want the street closed. Everybody wanted the street open. They felt that it is a very short street and they a lot of people miss it and the more vehicle traffic that would be allowed to go through the street the more exposure the stores would have for business so they were entirely against it except for one merchant. The other thing is I wanted to ask Mr. Acton that that C-2A zoning is going to be deferred tonight. Is that right, George, as far as we know? Mr. Acton: It was our recommendation but Commissioner Gordon, the reason we had recommended deferral was because there were certain modifications, as I explained earlier, that we felt would be necessary to set before the Commission before they toot action but Commissioner Gordon asked the City Attorney whether that be possible to do that between first and second reading and the answer was yes. But there are certain modifi- cations that have to be made to that to be in conformance with the objectives that we've been working.... Mr. Danziger: Naturally to give a little bit more time would be to everybody's advantage. rather than to one's disadvantage I think by deferring it, I would think it would think it would be. It would be in between first and second reading, at least the pressure is not on, it is a little bit less pressure than we have already, I think. Mrs. Gordon: What would the disadvantage be? There's no dis- advantage. INAUDIBLE 41 f Mrs Dansiger: Ok, we'll go along with Ult. The other thing was we had to consider the Coconut Grove Playhouse and we are deeply Concerned about that prime piece of business property and what it does for the community and this is the letter that the Commissioners have on their desk as well as the Mayor: Dear Mayor Ferre and City Commissioners, Due to the fact tint the !Miter Plan has not made any provisions for the expansion improvement or replacement if necessary of the Coconut Grove Playhouse we, the Coconut Grove Chamber of Commerce feel that there should be a modification in the Master Plan to allow for this to take place in the immediate future. The Coconut Grove Playhouse has proven a decided asset to the Village of Coconut Grove and to the City of Miami in every way. Therefore, we, the Chamber of Commerce propose a resolution stating that the Master Plan provide for a special consideration to be given to the Coconut Grove Playhouse to any future proposals submitted by the owners or the management of the Playhouse. The Chamber of Commerce feels it is a vital link and of great importance to continue the success of the business community of Coconut Grove and the entire City of Miami. We feel that the Playhouse itself has to have a leeway, is what I'm saying, inorder to reconstruct its edifice or modify it in some way and it is a separate entity within this community inorder to have a better business com- munity and we recognize the cultural aspects of it as well as everything else. Thank you very much. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Acton, is there anything within your recom- mendations that prevents any modifications to the Playhouse? Mr. Acton: Well, one of our modifications was taking into account that there was a definite advantage to encouraging that type of use in the village area so our modification is taking that into account, the bonus incentive recommendations. Mrs. Gordon: Yes, not putting any stops on it at all as far as I read through this ordinance. Rev. Gibson: I want to go back to a question that Mr. Tschumey raised, Mr. Acton so that we don't just pass over it and just have heard what he said. What about that filling station he mentioned? Mr. Acton: Yes, that also has been taken into consideration by the Department. We have considered the use of air rights over the filling station in the future if and when the parking garage ever is implemented. What I'm saying is we're aware of that recommendation from the Grove and as I stated to the Com- mission before the Planning document is being adopted in prin- ciple so we can revise it to meet the needs when it arises in the future. We're very much aware of that and I think we can leave the filling station there in the future and build over it. In other words, use the air rights over the gas station for three stories. Rev. Gibson: I just want to make sure that we don't leave here tonight and not get an understanding. That's all I wanted.... Mr. Acton: Yes, as I said, we're very much aware of that pro- posal.... Rev. Gibson: Now let me ask a question. I always, because I see people later on in the street and they're glad to stop to preach. You understand sir, I'm sure, what he said. You're in accord with that answer. All right. That's all. I want to make sure. 42 SEP 191974 Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, there are a series of recommendations and questions that have been presented to us and will be pre- sented this evening. t think it is very important that as soon as the minutes are ready that we get them in their simplest terms so that we'll have a list of these things that we can address ourselves to as we implement some of these things. Would you see that it is done in that way, the basic question or the basic recommendation and I don't mind you paraphrasing it, we can always come back with the original statement as long as you keep the intent clear for us. The next speaker is Mr. Jack Rice and after that, Joe Kolish. Mr. Jack Rice: Thank you for giving me an opportunity to appear here tonight. First of all when property owners have troubles the first thing they do is come to their attorney. I represent Dr. Robertson, Mr. Joe Kolish, Mr. Metzner and Mr. Sidney Kester. Mr. Sidney Kester could not be here, he is in the hospital, he just had a heart attack. All these gentlemen have substantial investments on Bayshore Drive and have invest- ed in the area for a considerable numbei of years. I'm addres- sing myself now to two areas. One is that location which was recommended o be R-3A located at Aviatiqr and Bayshore on the northeast corner just across from Bayshore Marine. That prop- erty has been zoned RC for a number of years and my client pur- chased that property with the idea of in the future, developing it to a greater potential than it has presently been developed. It originally was a night club or the Italian American Club and it had a bar and so forth. All that has been changed and now it is primarily a commercial office space use. Now what the Zoning or Planning Department has done is taken this property which is assessed at $350,000 some odd dollars and attempted to give it an R-CC zoning which I believe is now the recommendat- ion which up, til yesterday was an R-3A. But what this does on lot coverage is provide inst*ad of having a 1.5 potential for floor space in a proposed building is reduce it to approx- imately .6 or 1/3 of what it originally was which substant- ially reduces the value of my client's property. Now if there was a change in the neighborhood it wouldn't be so bad that would require this property to be so-called down graded to a lesser use. However, the change in'the neighborhood is any- thing but change it down, it should be altered and moved to a higher classification. Immediately across the street is Bay - shore Marine. Immediately next door is a huge three story apartment complex. I don't know how many units are in it but there are quite a few. It is quite a large project. Further to the northeast is an additional apartment complex. I believe that is a five story unit. Now what you're doing to my poor client is requiring him to have a lesser use than you're pro- viding for the people right next door and as a matter of fact, as you proceed further down Bayshore Drive where you have that zoned R-1 which is more or less estate now, that property is deteriorating to such an extent that the property immediately adjacent to this apartment complex which is a single family use is going, I'm sure, to be developed in some sort of multi- family residential use such R-4 or R-3, whatever the traffic will bear. Now I'm not saying that it is zoned for that pur- pose but I'm certain that the people that own that property intend to do it because it is a rather dilapidated dwelling at this particular time. Now when it comes to downgrading property you know there was the Merrick Coco property and the Culbertson property which is on Kirk Street and is presently now a part of the park, the David T. Kennedy Park. Mayor Ferre: Mr. Rice, how much longer will you require? 43 SEP 191974 Mr. Dices About four or five more minutes. Mayor Ferret Well, would you try to keep it to four minutes, please. Since you represent more than one person I'll go ahead and do that: four minutes. Mr. Rice: Now what I'm saying in this Merrick, Coco and Cul- bertson property, the court said in order to downgrade the zon- ing there has to be a reason and you could not sustain the zon- ing at R-1 and the courts through court action rezoned that property to R-5A. Now I'm asking you in the sense of fair play to my client to permit the R-C zoning to remain on Aviation and Bayshore that is presently there. It will be sometime before he develops it but why damage his interest and reduce the value of his property at this time? In addition, it is going to pos- sibly make this a nonconforming use when he's going to have to make a structural change or a structural alteration when you change it from R-C to R-CC he won't be able to do it. Now the second list of properties are those located at Grove Hill which is just across the street from the Grove Hotel, Mr. Mentzner's property which is the Bayshore Village which goes from Bayshore to Tigertail and then Mr. Kolish's property which is directly behind the Bank Building and Mr. Robertson's property, Dr. Rob- ertson's property which is right next to Yacht Harbor which is the new 22 story apartment building. Now what you're doing to them is reducing the height 1Lmitations to 10 stories while you've already permitted three structures in there and they've just been built that far exceed the 10 story limitation. I say that the zoning and the height limitation is set in that area and you shouldn't deviate from what presently exists. In addition, when you build a ten story building on a lot area or a floor area coverage, you have to build a squattier building. We could give you more open space with a higher building and beisides that today you know when you build higher you're re- quired to put in a sprinkler system which makes the building safer than the existing buildings that are presently being built there. None of them have a sprinkler system. In addit- ion, you have developed that property and led my clients to believe that they could use it for the R-C that presently exists because you've assessed them for the roads, they've got the new 100 foot street; you've assessed them for the new san- itary sewers and installed new storm sewers. All the develop- ment that you've permitted has been far in access of what you're now trying to relegate my client's property to. In addition, if you'll. notice the Grove Hotel and the Yacht Harbor, if you look at the plans and the new Office in the Grove, they don't have to set back any 30 feet. You're now going to have a hodge podge of setbacks because the new construction, you're going tomake my clients set back 30 feet whereas the present people that have presently constructed and have set the tenor for this area, you've only required them to set back 20 feet. I'm just asking you what fair play requires is that you permit my clients to develop their property and who have been good tenants in the Grove. They have developed and have some nice properties now. They're not for doing anything detrimental to the Grove. We're asking to let the property stand as it pre- sently exists which is take away the 10 story limitation. I also am opposed, I'm not opposed to guidelines if I know what they are but I am opposed to anybody telling my clients what kind of building they can put there which this ordinance says that the Planning Department and not our architect. I believe that our architect should dictate the kind of building or struct- ure that goes into this particular area. Could I just let Dr. Robertson say a word who has so much invested in this par- ticular area? 44 SEP 191914 Mayor Ferre: Mr. Kolish Lb the next speaker. If he will, where is Mr. polish. M.t'. Rice: Mr. K elish isn't gotten to him. 1►ayor Ferre: I'm sorry but list, Mr. Rice. feeling well, you've finally I'm just going right down the Mr. Rice: I'm not saying that derogatorily but you know Mr. Itolish has a heart condition and he just couldn't take it. Mayor Ferre: All right. Well, doctor, I'll 1st you speak in place of Mr. Kolish for four minutes please. a Dr. Robertson: t won't take long. I've lived in the Grove and around the Grove for some 20 years and I've spent my entire income in this area. Every piece of property I've ever owned we've upgraded it or done more than we were required to do zon- ing wise. We don't have a lot of money but I feel that provid- ing living space for people is a public service and I think it provides good taxpayers that will help pay for your improve- ments and your parks and other things like that. Florida hap- pens to be the fastest growing state in the union and these people need a place to live and we shouldn't turn away these good taxpayers. I think that we should provide a place for them and I think that giving a decent place at a decent price will help them. If you prevent, if you put too many restrict- ions on that it is going to run building costs so high that you might be able to build and the existing units will be able to charge more rents than they deserve which I'm not for and I want to thank you for your consideration. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: The next speaker is Lorraine Prince. All right, would you place that into the record. Robert Fishko. Mr. Robert Fishko: My name is Robert Fishko, I'm the producer at the Coconut Grove Playhouse and I also live there which is 3500 Main Highway. We have been trying for three years now to bring this cultural resource back to where it was once in the highest position it could be in in the City of Miami and I think that we are to some measure succeeding in doing this. We have been something less than a financial success; we've been los- ing an awful lot of money there. The people who own the Play- house are private investors who feel that as long as they can continue to operate the Playhouse without losing so much money that they will have lost so more money than the actual value of the property their investment is protected and they will continue and I can make this pledge to you tonight, to operate the Coco- nut Grove Playhouse in the very Lest way that they know how just as long as the total of the money invested in the combin- ation of purchase price and operating losses does not exceed the appraised evaluation of the property. At the present time it does not and I can tell you that our plans for this season are expansionary in nature and we intend to run longer this season than we ran last season and we're hoping that next season will be even longer and more successful than this season will be. We've been working with the Planning Department since this ..tudy was published. I will tell you that we are in very large measure in support of the Planning Study because we think it is very good for the Village of Coconut Grove. Unfor- tunately one of the pieces of property described by the Plan- ning Study is the Coconut Grove Playhouse. We've invested sev- eral thousand dollars now in architects and attorneys fees in an attempt to bring to the Planning Department a proposed possible 45 SEP 191974 redevelopment plan although we have no intentions of redevelop- ing the property at the present time simply to show the Plan- ning Department how it is possible to redevelop the property keeping the theatre where it is now and keeping the entire property in concert with the Coconut Grove Village which would deviate in iome measure from the floor area ratio and certain other specific implements of the plan but which would not in any way deface the character of the Grove community which we certainly don't want to do. I would like you to very strongly consider in adopting this plan if you so wish to do, to per- haps defer the inclusion of the Coconut Grove Playhouse prop- erty in this plan until you've had the opportunity to review what the possibilities for redevelopment of that property are and until you Are able to become fully conversant with the operating problems that we have so that you can understand how vitally the adoption of this plan may affect the continuing operation of what I. consider to be probably one of the great- est cultural resources the City has now. I say that it may sound very conceited and arrogant but if I didn't have that attitude we couldn't continue to be there because we're cer- tainly not doing it for the money. I can assure you that we've been losing money in the six figures every year. It is get- ting less and less and if you'll just leave us;there for a while and leave us alone we're going to make it zero and then we're going to go into the black, I hope with everybody's help. I thank you very much for listening. Mayor Ferre: All right, sir. Thank you. Mr. Joseph Reisman. All right, sir. Mr. Dean... Mr. Dean, I'll accept and them Mrs. Adele Kantor is next. Mr. James Dean: My name is James Dean. I reside at 1698 S. Bayshore Lane. I hope I won't have to speak at all. The areas that we're concerned with, Mr. Reisman and a few of my neigh- bors, is the proposed roll back of zoning on the Bayfront prop- erties between Pelican Canal and Mercy Hospital. For sometime now this past week or ten days we've been trying to work with the Planning Department and the Civic Association as regards the use of this property in that as it has been proposed in the plan to be a C-3 district, each one of those groups or persons realizes it really isn't an adequate or an accurate proposal for that particular property and I'm prepared to go through that tonight. I spoke with Mr. Wayne Allen earlier, I hope he is in the audience because he said he would come support me in that particular recommendation. Their problem and our problem be- cause we do support the plan in principle is that of density and traffic and I believe we're coming close because this is a unique piece of property to arriving at a compromise between the R-3 which would not be suitable for the area and certainly the R-4 which we're not requesting the densities in any manner. Now if that's a misstatement, Mr. Allen, I wish you'd correct me. Mayor Ferre: Let the record reflect that Mr. Allen is in the audience and as I understand it you said yes. That is correct. Mr. Dean: So what I'm asking is so that I don't have to go through my presentation is that you take... We accept the in- tent of the Plan as to the use of the property but what we object to is the classifications of land on this piece of prop- erty, the R-3 zoning and if I could have that particular port- ion abstracted from the plan then I wouldn't have to go through my presentation. Mayor Ferre; Mr. Acton, do you want to speak to that? 46 SEP 191974: Mr. Acton: Yesy we realize that the existing zoning on that property is RE.4 so what he is saying is that it should remain R-4. 'You're not saying that? Well then clarify the statement, Mr. Dean. Mr. Dean: Ok. YoU've comer this past week I've worked with your department on R-3 with a very complicated bonus system. It has about 5 or 6 items and I think we got very close, we began our negotiations on the floor area ratio at a floor area ratio of 1, I think it was. Now it has been reduced to .9, the floor area ratio in an R-4 zone is 1. What we want to eliminate out of this is.the necessity to go to small units and start in a unit that .works in a more appropriate scale to provide in that area as you have before granted variances for, higher quality multi -family residential units. I'm looking for R-31. Mr. Acton: No. no. I said we had recommended R-3 PAD which would give us the flexibility to work with the owners of that property and to come up with a desirable development that is compatible with the surrounding area, that does not destroy the scale of the bayfront. Mr. Dean: But the R-3 PAD permits me to develop the property as R-3 and I'm saying that the R-3 is not an appropriate zon- ing. Mr. Acton: No, sir. That is incorrect. Mr. Dean: Then you've created another zoning.... Mr. Acton: ...the PAD overlay is to allow flexibility in its application. Mr. Dean: I could not develop the property as R-3? Mr. Acton: Well, in the first place, you know I've already told the Commission that they're ppasing this planning document in principle. We've already recommended R-3 PAD, not R-3. The time for your arguements is at that time when you come in with an R-3 PAD. At that time we work out the details and not right now. Mr. Dean: This document, however, contains a zoning map. The last time we had this particu;ar hearing.... Mayor Ferre: Mr. Dean, do you need additional time? You're on this list for four minutes and I guess Mr. Gardner is too. Mr. Dean: I'm in a discussion period. This is not my pres- entation. I'm simply trying... Mayor Ferre: I hate to disagree with you, Mr. Dean but the clock is running so if you concede. Mr. Gardner, you concede Mr. Dean: I would like to ask the Commission if you would then please subtract from this document that recommendation that both properties be zoned R-3. That's all I'm asking. I approve of your land use, I approve of what you say in the way of a recommendation of densities but to apply the R-3 or the R-3 PAD and the R-3 PAD came to me tonight, in fact, I can't even get a copy of it and I've asked for a copy... Mayor Ferre: Mr. Dean, I'll recognize you for an additional four minutes when Mr. Gardner's time comes up because I don't think that we're going to settle this at this time. Does the Commission wish to 47 SEP 191974 Mr. Plummer: d'inmty. do you understand because sometimes I get cotfnibed: Jimmy, we're not changing any zoning tonight, At beet, we ar4 approving in principle before the zoning on your property or Dr. Robertson or any single parcel is changed there Will be additional hearings before this Commission. Now am I wrong or am I right? Mr. Dean: Ok, but in fact when you accept this tonight aren't we really rezoning the property in accordance with the plan? How are you going to accept this tonight and I come back here at what you're going to give me as my zoning hearing and say "Look now, you told me that you weren't rezoning my property", and you're going to say "But Jim, we already voted for that." The last time you had this hearing when you were proposing the roll back previous in this, the procedure was the same except that time it was done at a public hearing, it was done in exactly the same system. It was a zoning map but it was a legal zoning hearing. Now I have a different opinion as there is, Mr. Bar- rett Mrs. Gordon: Jimmy, you've got the minutes of this meeting to refer to. You heard the Attorney and the Planning Director. Mr. Dean: Then what you're telling me is that you will not do this, Rose, and I should go ahead with my presentation. Mr. Plummer: No, Jim, I disagree. I think the time for your presentation is when your particular parcel is up for either change or no change. Now that would be my opinion. Mayor Ferre: Row much time are you going to need to make your presentation? Mr. Dean: I'll need about 10 minutes. I'm speaking for.... Mayor Ferre: Mr. Dean, I'm sorry, I'm not going to be able to recognise you for 10 minutes at this time. I will recognize you later on. I think there are about 6 or 7 people that have their names here before yours so I apologize to you, and please, if you'll have a little patience and forebearance, we're all tired. I've been here since this morning and believe me, I'm tired. Mrs. Adele Kantor: I'm representing 400 people, how much time do I get? No, I shouldn't take up too much time. I'm repre- senting the stepchild of Coconut Grove, Bay Heights. We've been included in this plan. We exist on the periphery of Coconut Grove. We weren't asked for any input. We had a meeting a few weeks ago to discuss this plan and how it affects us and I wish to thank Mr. Luft from your Planning Department for coming to our meeting. One of the things that we brought up I see has been added to the recommendations by this committee and I thank you for considering a pedestrian overpass over Dixie Highway near Alatka Street so that our children can get to school, so that the children on the other side of Dixie Highway can get to the Museum of Science. However, one of the characteristics of Bay Heights is that we're r'nclosed in a wall. We're a walled in community by no act of our own. This property before it was developed into residences was a part of Vizcaya and the wall was there when the homes were built. This wall seems to be working to our disadvantage because we only have two streets which let us in and our of Bay Heights. It peens the longer Bay Heights exists the more we get closed in by the community around us. It almost impossible for us to reach Dixie Highway now. In the recommendations before this 48 SEA 191974 Commission the Planning Department has recommended closing Alatka Street and Halissee Street and making Alatka Street going one way south. The affect this would have on the com- munity of Bay Heights would be to virtually close us off and we would have only one street with which to get into Bay Heights or we would have no access to Dixie Highway whai oever if Alatka and Halissee are closed off, Thereupon with making Alatka there is one house with the Alatka Street address on it and there are seven other homes that abutt Alatka. These eight homes would be affected by closing off Alatka Street whereas there would be 50 homes on Shore Drive East and Shore Drive South tht would be affected by the traffic being rerouted down Shore Drive East to avoid Alatka Street. I realize the time is late and I don't want to belabor the Commission with these minor points but I wanted to address your attention to them so that when you do make up the Master Plan please take Bay Heights into consideration. Don't close us off, we need these Streets to get in and out of Bay Heights. We'll try very hard not to abuse the residential neighborhoods surrounding us. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: Thank you very much, Mrs. Kantor. The next speaker is Bob Korner. Mr. Bob Korner: I'm here this evening to represent Mr. Joe Harrison and his property which is located just adjacent to the Commercial area in Coconut Grove. It is a unique piece of property and I don't believe that this Grove Plan has given proper consideration to it. It is a rather large piece of property. It is across the street from a commercial area. It has a commercial area on its northerly side, a park and a church on its northerly side and a park on its southerly side which means that there is no private owned property adjacent to this property that is zoned single family. But the proposal for the property is to zone it R-1B. Because it is surrounded by other uses it seems like this R-1B would be an improper classification for the subject. Also, the R-111 would not re- quire lot coverage and floor area ratios that would provide for a proper development of the site as a series of homesites. Also it seems impossible to believe that it would be a good site for a home righton Main Highway across the street from the business district and adjacent to the business district. Your study suggests transitional buffer areas and we would certainly feel that this particular site as a proper one for a transitional buffer. We would ask that you would give con- sideration in the development of this area to a zone that would be connected or tied to a PAD either an R-3 or an R-4 which would allow an orderly and proper development c:f the subject. The area that I'm speaking of is the dark area on the proposed park improvement map - this area right here; you can see it goes from Main Highway to the Bay. It has a park here and here and business here and across the street. It is an island into itself as far as private development is concerned and we fell that it should have some correlation to the adjacent uses and also to the zone classifications immediately adjacent. The other point I would like to bring out is that this proposal would someday wish to acquire this site as a historic park. Sometimes to acquire property for park purposes have a very detrimental affect on the ownership of that property in that it precludes proper financing, etc. We would suggest that this not be a proposed historic park but rather that it be continued in private ownership so that it may be developed and be made a part of the tax base. We have a tremendous amount of park area in Coconut Grove in this very 'area and it seems like if we're going to acquire property for park purposes it would be better 49 SEP 191974 to diversify and pit some of this park area where it would Serve more people and a greater need. The present park accd.. modation in this immediate area is more than adequate and really has precluded the public ownership of a great deal of property. We would like very much to develop the site as a proper apartment development, one that would be a credit both to the owners and to the Grove area and that one that would supply some of the very badly needed housing in this section. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: All right sir. thank you. The next speaker is C. Langdon Rogers. Mr. C. Langdon Rogers: I'm Langdon Rogers, I reside at 4150 La Playa Boulevard in Coconut Grove and I would like to address a portion of this study which deals with the limitations placed on professional offices in the downtown Coconut Grove area. If you'll look on the Master Plan on page 6 under section 4, 1(a) you will notice.. I will read this: "At least 75% of such frontage shall be allotted for ground level occupancy by uses listed in Section 2." Section 2 lists all permitted businesses that will be in the C-2A zoning of this district excluding parking and offices for business and professional use. As a realtor associate with the firm of Carribbean Real Estate Center and being on both ends of this where possibly we be leasing property for an office in Coconut Grove, I feel that excluding me from ground level property, a ground level operation of my 'business deprives me of a great deal of walk in traffic we do have. This would also include your lawyers, doctors, architects. I also feel that if a person owns such a building and wishes to lease space on the ground floor to a professional you're depriving him of thdt right. I would ask the Commission at this time to consider this and possibly it could be deleted from the zoning study. The other thing I would like to address myself to is the proposed parking lot in Coco- nut Grove and suggest that the Commission look in an altern- ative Location for the parking lot. I'm speaking at this time of the vacant areas in back of Blue Water Marine and the old Post Office. If you built a two story parking garage back there it would be hidden by the existing buildings and there- fore people traveling through the Coconut Grove area would not see a two story modern structure and we could keep the contin- uity of what we want in Coconut Grove as a unique shopping area. I would also like to say one thing in closing. It seems to me that many attorneys and developers, architects who are repre- senting developers seem to have the attitude that I'm against highrises after I build mine and it has to stop somewhere, gentlemen and I realize certain people are going to be hurt but that is all I have to say at this time. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: The next speakers are Central Grove P ssociation and we have James Boyle, M. Reed, T. Brown and Mrs. Elizabeth Bettener. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I think the time has come to inter- ject a decision at this point. I definitely intend to hold you to your word of 10 O'Clock which means that we have then been working 10 hours. I think enough is enough. I can see more than 20 minutes of speakers left. As a matter of fact, as I look down this list I'm most likely looking at close to an hour to an hour and a half. But I think somewhere along the line a decision has to be made as to how many more speakers we're going to have this evening because I think at 10 O'Clock I'm going to turn into a pumpkin and just fall sound asleep, So I hope, Mr. Mayor, that you'll make a decision at this ":ime. 50 SEP 191974 ofo Mr. Dean had asked for n)o less than 10 minutes, th.Ls gentleman has asked for 1, you've got four or five speakers ►;ere at four minutes a piece is 20 minutes, Let's make some dec*,dons now. Mayor Perre: Mrs, Bettener and the Central Grove Association, may I ... . (INAUDIBLE) Mayor Ferre: May I respectfully, since this matter of Mr. Dean has come up I would like to respectfully ask for you to eoneeed your time for the moment and then we can proceed. The next.... Now if you say no there is nothing I can do about it because I think it's the only fair way to do it. Do you want to speak? INAUDIBLE Mayor Ferre: W4e11 who is going to be y)ur spokesman now? All right Ralph, are you, will you spea:t now or will you con- cede your time for the time being, Mr. Aaron? How much time are you going to speak? Mr. Ralph Aaron: I'll try to speak like Donald Duck and make it as fast as possible. I'll make it four minutes like you've assigned to everybody else. First of all because Mrs. Dankens ceded her time to me I want to address myself specifically to her item. She was concerned when the planners for the depart- ment indicated that sections of Florida Avenue along which street she ownsproper:.; aid resides would be zoned from the 50 foot zone right of way to 30 and in her case she wasn't too sure. She had it explained by Mr. Luft that there would be no zoning whatsoever along her strip. But this brings up a very important issue. Whe's satisfied, Mrs. Denkens is satisfied, she got her explanation, she doesn't have to worry about 30 going to 50 feet in front of her property. But the point is this: The planners arbitrarily took certain streets and there is a list- I think it is on page 38 - and they said the fol- lowing streets will be kept at the 30 foot dedication instead of the zoned 50 foot. I don't know what the criteria is. Why arbitrarily take certain streets? The Grove has a certain character, the residential neighborhoods and streets enhance that character and why take it up to 50 feet? It can't be done on an arbitrary basis of this list versus that list. It is either a criteria that exists or it doesn't. There's no criteria in that report. Therefore, I'm recommending, every residential street in Coconut Grove be kept at 30 feet. When you go up to 50 feet, everytime a person pulls a permit he has to give up 10 feet in the front of his house ard the result of that is that 10 feet go to the City for a supposed widening someday which never takes place on a local residential street and if you take a look in the Hopkins Plat Map you'd see all of these serrated edges of properties that have given up their 10 feet. So now you have 10 feet off the front of some of these properties where somebody has built a house where it's off the tax rolls and no advantage takes place except that in site planning this property now this property is squeezed by 10 more feet. So that is a very important point and I think Mr. Luft has already discussed this wtih Mr. Campbell and you should keep everything at 30 feet that's a local residential street in Coconut Grove. I want to say a few more fast things. Whatever the downtown plan is Oak street should not be made into a bypass. If that downtown plan is played around with too much you're going to find cars are going to try to avoid it to get around the downtown bottlenecks and before you know 51 SEP i9197a it you'll have the functional situation where Oak is the bypass, not planned for that in the report but that is what it wilt be in fact and we've had some beautiful casualties on that street. I've pulled people out of cars at the intersection of Virginia and Oak several times from right angle collissions. Now in regards to the Coconut Grove Playhouse, I don't know if any imaginative thought has ever been given to making it a historic monument. Why shouldn't, not withstanding it's not very old and not withstanding it's in private hands, if they run into a failure and if they want out at some future time why the City doesn't pick it up as some kind of a cultural center because it has got a great significance and if any of us go back to the early sixties and remember the nostalgia of Zeb Buffman's plays and the programs he put on back in those days which was so successful and lent a certain kind of nostalgic character to the Grove, I would hope that some thought would be given to making this a publicly owned community cultural facility should these people like the people before have to be bailed out. It should not be torn down not withstanding any resolut- ion of the Chamber of Commerce for some highrise. Now another point that never came up in this plan and I'm speaking within four minutes, sir. Mayor Ferre: Four minutes have elapsed, Ralph. How much more time do you need? Mr. Aaron: I've knocked out four of eight points. I don't see where anybody has said anything about the City of Miami having an art gallery. We've got enough land down in Dinner Key where we could have an art gallery. If we're ever going to aspire to some cosmopolitan aspirations how about an art gallery. We say that the County is going to take over the, whatever that thing is down on Kendall and I don't know where that stands but if you ever go in there it isn't very exciting and if ever we aspire to some sophistocated aspirations it sure would be nice to see that kind of a community facility. Now with regard to that bike lane in downtown Coconut Grove I sure hope that that bike lane doesn't end up like that preempted lane for buses ehere we end up going north during the rush hour and other cars are going south and we find ourselves with a speed bus with four people on it. If we wind up jamming up for traffic in the morning trying to get downtown and we have a bike lane and all we see is some gorgous looking hippy chick on a bike with cut- off jeans and that's the only satisfaction we get for a pre- empted bike lane, I don't think that's enough. Joe Harrison's property, this attorney over here, he said almost everything there was to say but I certainly think that it is prejudicial to one man to have his property pre-empted. Why not take, if you're going to have a park, why not take the whole estate strip if you're going to do that and you don't want any high rises or medium rises in there? Either do it all or don't do it at all but don't prejudice one man. If you want to have some kind of historic Williamsburg with a bunch of people in little booths looking like pilgrims sawing and cutting up wood put it down in Dinner Key where you have all kinds of land. I want to get to two theoretical points and then I'll get out of here. (1) Is this study a Master Plan or is it a planning study? You know the planners call it a plannig study and that means that it is something less than what a master plan is. A Master Plan is a basis for all the recommendations including specific zoning rem mmendations that flow from it. If all this planning study is is a guideline then it is like a piece of swiss cheese full of Wholes. You can do anything with it after you endorse it in principle and the result of this is that because it is not a Master Plan a housing study has been left 52 SEP 191974 out and becauee a housing study is left out nothing was said about the problem that we came up with about what the County did to ue with their CTP Profile. Now if we had had a real raster plan the result would have been that that housing study would have been in there as a study element and a comprehensive development plan which is what Mrs. 'nose Gordon talked about. And lastly, just by way of principle, I would like to say that I personally resent when at the lest n`inute not the eleventh hour but the ninth hour because the thing was distributed at 9 O'Clock, last night the planners came around like telegraph boys and they delivered a Planning Study Modifications as Discussed with the Planning Advisory Committee. They had all summer to turn this thing out and hand it to us so we'd have enough time before this meeting to deliberate it with all the civic groups that we're members of and it comes out last n,3ht at 9:00 O'Clock. Mayor Ferre: May I see that? Mr. Aaron: Yes, sir. Mr. Plummer: That's what he read orally. Mayor Ferre: Have we got copies of this? Mr. Aaron: But why do we get this eleventh hour, why since there was around here didn't we have time to Mr. Plummer: Well you got it last didn't get it until this afternoon at the ninth hour, not the ., whole summer of quiescence deliberate over it? night at 9:00 O'Clock, we at 5:00 O'Clock. Mr. Aaron: So you should be complaining along with us. Mayor Ferre: Ralph, I want to thank you for your speed. Ser- iously, you covered eight very important subjects in record time. We'll call you Speedy Aaron from now on. All right. Thank you very much for that consideration. The next speaker is Youth Council, Heather Be.ttener. You want to pass your time to who? I don't see his name on here. Mr. James O'Boyle: My name is James O'Boyle, I reside at 4083... Mayor Ferre: Mr. O'Boyle, how long will you talk? Mr. O'Boyle: Four minutes, I hope. I'm representing Central Grove Association to read into the record the Central Grove's position paper. We're already on record as having accepted the plan in principle but since we could not be heard at the Plannin3 Board level it is necessary to take a few moments to get our position on record and a couple of minor adjustments plus one correction to the plan on record. Our general state- ment is to this affect: The residents and property owners of the central Grove area have made their feelings crystal clear at various and numerous this year and that (1) they want no more highrise buildings. Tay definition of highrise to the layman Grove resident, is anything over four stories whereas to the Planning Department highrise has an entirely different meaning couched in such terms as R-5, etc. It should be clearly understood that there is a different viewpoint for the same terminology. (2) They want every possible means used to re- duce density in the Grove. It is strongly felt that what af- fects one section of the Grove most 'certainly will affect an- other area. This means rolling back zoning and controlling floor area ratio. (3) They want traffic reduced especially 53 SEP 19 1974 the traffic that uses the Gr we for a short cut to other areas or the bypassing use of sidestreets to avoid every central area of congestion. (4) They want historically designated sites preserved now. Not later, for then it will be too late and the bulldozer will have done its destructive work. (5) They are especially concerned about the ecology of this area. On the subject of floor area ratio and height limitation we approve 1.0 PAR and ask that this be kept in the plan with no changes. We are aware that pressure has been applied to allow 1.5 FAR. This should not be allowed. The 1.0 FAR should be applied whenever, wherever possible for it is a tool to reduce density. We ask that the four story height recommendation for the village center and the 10 story recommendation for the bayshore be reduced to a three story limitation for the center and a 7 story for the bayshore. This is in keeping with what hundreds of Grove residents have asked for after several public meetings at St. Stephen's Church and before the Commission. The three and seven figures are a compromise between what the people asked for and what the Planning Study calls for. The Coconut Grove Bank is 7 stories and should be the guideline for that area. The existing height in the village center of three stories should be the guideline for that area. We're opposed to any more R-4 for the central area. The arguement that all devel- opers present using hardship as a justification to validate their argument is reprehensible to the residents, homeowners and many people in business in the Grove who prefer a low pro- file for the village. The hardship plea is only a hardship to the developers pocketbook and is simply a matter of the developer's personal economics. The real hardship is to the community when the developers are allowed to build more con- crete monsters flying in the face of what hundreds of Grove people oppose at public hearings time after time after time. That hardship includes traffic, density, noise, dirt and with the concominent burden of overloading of various systems from sewers water and garbage to the school system in short. We therefore request that R-4 be reduced to R-3 especially in the congested areas at Tigertail, 27th, Darwin, Mc Donald, Dixie and Bird. We ask for a roll back to R-3 for all future devel- opment. The subject of Bayshore is geology and topography. We are very concerned about the Bayshore Drive area. We call to your attention and submit herewith a map and geologic report showing two natural faults that run from the village center down across Bayshore and into the bay and material about the oolite composition which runs from Miami Avenue all the way down Bayshore. The edge of the outcropping known as Silver Bluff, we call your attention to the fact that we now have highrises standing on top of these faults. We request that you read the material herewith very carefully especially that part in reference to the ;inactive fault in California that became active, We ask that you consider the consequences of any further building on these faults and in addition to that we also point out the oolite composition along Bayshore is a unique geological form wbich is to be found only there and nowhere else. Students have come from all over the country to study it. It is of great academic value to geologists and we question the advisability of anymore destruction of this oolite by development. Too much has already been scooped out to ac- comodate the highrises that are presently there. Mayor Ferro: Thank you very much. Mr. E. J. Van Truse. Alright, Mr. Ted Sanselle, Mr. Dean, you're on. Go ahead, you've got your minute now. Mr. Joseph Reisman: My name is Joseph Reisman, I'm an attorney. My address is 2600 First Federal Building. I represent the 54 SEP 19 1974 owners of Lot 6 in Fairview Subdivision which is at the con- fluence of Oceola Canal. and Biscayne Bay. Frankly, t.t appears very blearly to me tonight that the study is going to be ap- proved in principle. liith regard to My particular piece of property and the property adjacent to it the proposed rollback in zoning from R-4 ro R-3 is inequitable and unfair for reasons which I will not belabor at this point. What I wish to say to you is that there is, that what should be considered here in connection with the zoning of that property when that becomes appropriate is density and height and I don't think that strat- ified zoning requirements of R-3 or R-4 adequately solve that problem and what I would request of this Commission and what I urge now is that inorder that there be no misunderstanding with regards to this proposition that when this plan, this study is approved in principle tonight as I think you will do, that you include in that approval the statement of the fact that it is not to represent an approval of the specific zoning of particular pieces of property, that it be made very clear that by approving in principle this study that the zoning lines have not been finally Crawn. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: All right, sir. Thank you. Mr. Dean. Mr. James Dean: I'm going to truly try to keep this short and see if we can't get out of here by ten O'Clock. Mayor Ferre: How much time do you need, Mr. Dean? M. Dean: Ten minutes. I've identified myself before. Mr. Mayor and Commissioners, I want to speak to you in my opposit- ion to ;the change in zoning along the bayfront from Pelican Canal to Mercy Hospital. It is proposed to rezone this property from R-4 (multi -family) to R-3 (multi -family). It is my belief that this change is arbitrary, unreasonable, discriminatory, capricious and unrealistic. Through these points to you I sub- mit to you the following facts: The Planning Study as applied to this property is inadequate and erroneous and the recommend- ations consequently, perhaps are based on such deficiencies and errors. The generalized land use study identifies my property and the adjacent property as single family when they are multi- family in permit use. There is a nine story condominium there which is identified as single family. The net residential den- sity study identifies my property and adjacent property from a low of 21to 6.9 units per acre to a high of 20 to 29.9 units per acre. My density by permit is 9.8 while the adjacent 1600 condominium is 35.3 and the Chateau Elizabeth Apartments is 37.5 units Fer. acre. Thcs rerrrnt-e.g• of ,-wZc • r1,'cupied hous- ing units studied lists all the properties in a generalized classification of 34 to 66% owner occupied. The accuracy in this is obviously deficient in that the Chateau Elizabeth apart- ment adjacent has 66 units, Swan Apartments have 8 and I have 9. My neighborhood, we only have 5 owner occupied houses. INAUDIBLE Mr. Dean: On page 11 of the Study, paragraph 6 conclusions and studies as mentioned before is that the multi -family use con- flicts with the existing use...adjoining.single family. Noth- ing could be further from the fact. In my neighborhood I only know of a single objector for the uses of property as multi- family, one objector, Mr. Esposito. We have a dual street sys- tem for traffic circulation which exceeds what they do at Glen- coe which exceeds what they do at Fair Isle. Access to Bayshore Drive is controlled by a signalized intersection at West Fair- view. Sewers are in the street, I paid for them. They are SEP 191974 sized for multi -family uses. on page 22 a justification is given for the reclassification based on the speculation of the court's rulings. You're,only given part of the facts in your Audy. Let me read you en opinion by Judge Schultz and the court that recognized the length and time a property has been zoned, that's been zoned since 1961 and the existing uses of the property which conform to R-4 and would not conform to R-3. This is the order which was affirmed in the circuit court, appealed by the City and affirmed by the Appellate Court with the exclusion of those people who did not become a part of the suit that the property bordering on the east and west of plaintiff's property presently contains building structures either erected upon tl.,: land or in the process of construction which conform to R-4 zoning classified property and said build- ings do not conform with the zoning restrictions and uses as defined under the R-3 zoning, that the City of Miami hereto in the year of 1960 changed the zoning of the property of the plaintiffs and other contiguous property within the area to R-4 zoning that the plaintiffs have owned their property since 1947, that he purchased it subsequent to the change of zoning affected in the year 1960 and the majority of the upland prop- erty owners within the subdivision adjacent to the plaintiff's property purchased or built their homes subsequent to the enactment of the ordinance rezoning the ordinance in 1960 and are borne consideration thereof is accordingly, you lost your rollback. So it was in fact partially stopped but there are other circumstances which attributed to an affirmation of that property being R-4. To conclude the study I feel the judge- ments were :fade on incomplete and inaccurate facts and the reco- mmendations come to you without the full knowledge of the cir- cumstances affecting these properties. I firmly believe that the recommendations as regard to the bayfront properties be- tween Pelican Canal and Mercy Hospital are a reaction to the highly organized pressure groups who are attacking Fair Isle and that this property is getting a discrimination because of such action. What makes me believe this is back in April of this year I talked with Mr. Jack Luft about these properties and he assured me that no rollback would occur in this area. However, when the plan was published in May the rollback was included. The community hearings organized by the department were not attended bo by me and my interests because of his statement. You can be assured that if I'd been a part of this action...if I had not been held up by such comments that no rollback would occur in my area. I feel that this action is a violation of some of my rights. Let me direct you to the existing conditions in my neighborhood. Fair Isle, as you heard is zoned R-5 and we get mixed emotions as to whether the City will be able to purchase the property as a park. I think it is a fine idea. Until these suits are settled or future suits are settled or the property is purchased the real fact that the Bayshore property is being rolledback to R-3 is again unrealistic. Adjacent to my property is a nine story condominium known as the 1600 with 32 units with 35.9 units per acre with a floor area ratio of 1.25 or 1.5 over the R-4 code allowance. How did this occur? This Commis- sion at the same hearing when they rejected this very roll- back before in 1968 granted it with the comments that it would encourage a better development on that property and that they were anxious to have better development. What we have then is a building which exceeds in fact the R-4 classification in use yet the recommendation is to roll this back to an R-3. That building is never going to go away no matter what you call it and its use will continue to be R-4. The same circum- stances exist at the Chateau Elizabeth Apartment on the other side of the 1600 condominium. It is unrealistic to expect 56 SEP1.91974 adjacent properties to be R 4. My neighborhood has changed in the peat 6 years. We tore one house down and we built a house and we built the condoronium next door. All in all, we lost one house and gained another. I want to now have you examine with me and t think this was the crux of what I was trying to tell you earlier, the differences between R-3 and R-4 as it has been proposed. But first let me read for you the Planning Board minutes of Mr. George Acton's comments on R-4 versus R-3 zoning as applied to Fair Isle or to the Bay properties. 'When you go into an R-3 zoning it allows scale which is much less than allowed in an R-4 but the lot coverage of the project is much greater in R-3 than it is in R-4 so that from the pedest- rian level you'll probably see less of the bay with an R-3 development than you would with an R-4 because an R-4 is un- limited height. R-3 restricts you to two stories. F-4 is un- limited. you can go ten stories and it is obvious that you'll have less lot coverage at the ground level and you'll have a lot more penetration through to the bay.. Now one of your board members asked "In other words your contention is that R-3 will block the view more than R-4 basically?" Mr. Acton's answer was "Yes, because it allows the continuous and I'm basing that on the mini project that we have in the City of Miami that allows virtually lot to lot line development of R-3 to its lowest intensity but you wind up paving the entire area with little open space." (INAUDIBLE). Mayor Ferre: Your ten minutes are up. Jimmy, how much longer are you going to take? All right, go ahead but try to wind it up quickly. LENGTHY INAUDIBLE PRESENTATION BY MR. DEAN. Mr. Dean: ....in that particular location. Now, let me con- clude with you because we've had this once before. This prop- erty was rezoned in 1960, the Planning Department itself reco- mmended the R-4 zoning in 1960, Mr. Westrom. In 1968 there was a recommendation to roll this back and interestingly enough in 1968 two of the Commissioners who sit here today were on the Zoning Board at that time. Mr. Plummer, you were there, Mrs. Gordon, you were there. Mr. Plummer, you said this: "I would like to go on record that the land based property, there should be no change that the only one that may ha"re any dev- iation would be on Fair Isle." Mrs. Gordon, you made the motion; "I want to speak to the gentleman who made a comment that we are not sure of what we are doing. We feel sure of what we're doing in the Grove and we are very reluctant to make changes in the Grove. Those who have been attending these meetings regularly have noticed that. I am sure of this. We don't just promiscuously make changes one way or another unless there is a definite need for a change and it is evident that it should be done." In regards to these properties that are here before you tonight, I fail to see the need. Mrs. Gordon: Who are you quoting?' Mr. Dean: You, Mrs. Gordon. Out of the minutes. Mrs. Gorcb n: Ok. That's what I wanted you to say. Mr. Dean: "Therefore, I have to motion to deny this applica- tion as they are before us this evening. I would like to put into this record also that the fact is all of us know it is a great hardship to have something taken away from us and to enter into agreements has been done by several people here purchase property and keep it for future development and then 57 SEP 191974 'ha�+e it taken aWay. !Et is unfair, it is ttnreaiiatic and therefore I would like tb be in objection to that." Mrs. Gordon: Six years ago, Jimmy. Mr. Dean: Ok, one last one.... The City Commission confirmed that Objection. Mr. Mayor, you were part of that Commission and you had these remarks: Mayor Ferre: It looks like the only innocent ones around here are rather Gibsn and Reboso. Mr. Dean: Reverend Gibson, I hope you're paying attention to what I'm saying. Rev. Gibson: I certainly am. Mr. Dean: I think I won't read the whole thing but you do make the same plea that you made today that there were mis- takes made in the original use of this property but what you said in the end of this is that is has been this way for a period of time and one quote I'd like to make - "Rut you have to look at the other side of this thing and understand that there is people who do have this property that is zoned R-4 and has been rezoned R-4 for eight years. It is eminently unfair in my opinion for you all of a sudden now to decide that it should be R-3 rather than R-4." The conditions have changed, Mrs. Gordon. We have a nine story concominium there. My neighborhood has no objections. I don't think the plan went deep enough into the plan. I do feel as I said before we got involved in this at the last minute because Mr. Luft himself told me right up until April that I wasn't involved and in May after one year we get included. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Dean. Now, ladies and gentlemen I'm going to recognize Jack Luft for a moment -er responses. I think he's been rather anxious to answer something and I will give you that opportunity in a moment. It is now some- what after 10:00. I have said repeatedly throughout this meet- ing When we started early today that at 10:00 O'Clock sharp we were going to walk out of this room. Before Plummer does that, I would, obviously there are about 12 speakers left and we just cannot hear you tonight. I might say that we started exactly 12 hours ago on City business and we've been at it solidly all day and frankly, I'm getting to a point where I see spots before me and I hear some words and I don't hear them all and I'm beginning to stammer a little bit. So I'm getting a little punchy. I still can't figure out what it was that you said that I said and I thought of a response but now it has escaped me so... So it is time to go home. Mrs. Gordon: Are you ready for some motions, Mr. Mayor? Mayor Ferre: I will accept some motions in a moment. obvious- ly we're going to have to continue this hearing because there are people that haven't been heard and I'm sure they have a right to be heard and I'm sure they want to be heard and in fairness to them we're going to have to do that. Now, let's talk about setting a date. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, if you don't mind, I would like to sit here until this hearing is completed. If you don't mind, I'd like to ask the people whose names are affixed to this if they would waive their right to speak. If they insist on speaking that they cut it down very short but I don't see any 58 SE.? 191974 1 purpose in holding another hearing on this Sartre matter because we're going to through the same thing all over again for another five houre. Mayor Ferre: Dolly Macrntyre, do you want to be heard? I'm not going to listen to you today, you want to be heard do you? All right. Pat Dean, do you want to be heard? AU. right. Pat Cox, Frances Gardner, Frank Gardner, do you want to be heard? Robert Huyvaert, you waive your time, OK. The whole Breuton family, Robert, Isaac, Anthony, Roosevelt, you want to be heard? You want to be heard. Joe Calay. You want to be heard. Cogan Norman, you want to be heard? For Elizabeth Verrick. We'll put it into the record. I also have a state- ment here by Marjory Stoleman Douglas which I'll place into the record. Mrs. Gordon: You've got three people, Mr. Mayor, and I don't think that we need to have another hearing. Let's get it over with. Mayor Ferre• Please, Rose. Dr. James Robertson I think has already spoken. Mr. Richard Kent, you want to be heard, Mr. Kent? A11 right. Mrs. Parks, you want to be heard? Two minutes. All right. Well then, it isn't as bad. It is about five or six people. I think if we open it up we're going to be here until midnight. Mr. Plummer: Let's be fair with each other you know I wouldn't mind sitting here for another fifteen minutes but the point very simply is, Rose, that's not going to be 't. You've got a list of motions, I've got a list of questions Mrs. Gordon: I have no list of motions, I have just the things that the department prepared. Mr. Plummer• Mr. Mayor, I'm sorry. After twelve hours I've had it. Now you know, I'm tired. I don't mind admitting it. Mayor Ferre: well all right, let's put it to a simple majority and see what the will of this Commission is. Will somebody make a motion Mrs. Gordon: i move that we continue.for fifteen minutes and see if we can wrap this thing up. Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, if we don't finish in fifteen minutes then what? Mayor Ferre: Then we have to have another continuation. Rev. Gibson: A11 right so then let's put a motion to continue or not continue. Then we'll give the people an opportunity right now we'll say to them you come here at a certain time. I'll solve that problem. Mayor Ferre: All right. There is a motion to continue. Is there a second? Is there a second to the motion to continue this evening? Does anybody want to second Mrs. Gordon's mot- ion Mrs. Gordon: May I ask the audience of people who wanted to speak.... Mayor Ferre: They don't have a voice on this second to that motion. 59 SAP 151914 klrs. Gore: t asked them to raise their hands. i just want to see where they are. I want to ask you folks if you'i wa i .re your priviledge of speaking so we can have a vote on this item tonight. Rev. Gibson: Mt. Mayor:, a point of order, Mr. Mayor, a motion has been offered. Now you know I get a little upset with us up here. Mayor Ferre: The motion has died from lack of a second. I will repeat it one more time. Is there a second to the motion to continue? Hearing no second to the motion the motion dies. Now, what is the will of the Commission? Rev. Gibson: A motion to adjourn„ Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer- so that these There is a motion to adjourn.... Mr. Mayor, in all fairness, let's try if we can people can go away knowing when the.... Mayor Ferre: I'm going to do that in a second, don't worry about that. All right, there is a motion to adjourn and on discussion we'll clarify that point. There is a motion to adjourn. Is there a second to the motion? Mr. Plummer: To adjourn? Mayor Ferre: Yes, sir. Mr. Plummer: Yes, sir! Mayor Ferre: Now, there's a motion and a second to adjourn. On discussion and Selma, we've been here 12 hours. Have you ever sat through a meeting for 12 hours? Now, and I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be short; let's get down to it now. When will we continue this hearing? Mrs. Gordon: You've adjourned, your meeting is over! Mayor Ferre: No, ma'am we have not. The vote has not been taken. We are now in the matter of discussion. If you want to start pulling parliamentary discussion now we'll never get through. This meeting is going to be adjourned in a moment and I want to know whether the 23rd at 5:00 O'Clock is accept- able for a continuation of the hearing. Is there any object- ions to that. Does anyone object to the day of the 23rd which is Monday at 5:00 O'Clock? Now I don't think irreparable harm will be done, Mrs. Gordon in waiting from this evening until 5:00 O'Clock on Monday. All right, Mr. Luft, can you hold your remarks until then or must you sapeak now? All right, call the roll for adjournment so we can have it real official like. Thereupon_ a motion to adjourn was introduced by Reverend Gibson, seconded by Mr. Plummer and passed and adopted by the following vote -AYES: Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso, Rev. Gibson and Mayor Ferre. NOES: Mrs. Gordon. GO SEP 191974 There being no further business to come before the City Comtiaaion, the ape ia1 meeting was adjourned at 1O:20 P.M. ATTEST: H. D. Southern City Clerk Ralph G. Ongie Assistant City Clerk Maurice A. Perre Mayor 61 S EP 191974