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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1974-09-25 MinutesTY OF MIAMI- SPECIAi. COMMISSION MINUTES OF MEETING HELD ON rbe 251974 PREPARED SY°THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK CITY HALL H. P. SOUTHERN RALPH G. ONGM E Cyter A‘b <s rant Ci t•,i s MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING CITY COMMISSIONI OF MIAMI, FLORIDA ON THE 25TH DAY OF SEPTET ER, 1974 THE CITY OMISSION OF MIAMi, FLORIDA NET AT ITS REGULAR MEETING PLATHE CE AT CITY w IN SAID CITY IN THE SPECIAL ITY OF �IAMION OFOR THEEFiSCAL YEAR �74-1�IATION ORDINANCE FOR THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 2:30 O`CLOC P.M. BY MAYOR, MAURICE A. FERRE WITH THE FOLLOWING MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION PRESENT: ALSO PRESENT: JR. MAuRICE ' . FERRE ABSENT: COMMISSIONER (REV.) THEODORE GIBSON WY MANAGER A ST. CITY MANAGER TTY ATTORNEY ITY C1,rERK ST. l ITY CLERK AN INVOCATION WAS DELIVERED BY COMMISSIONER ROSE GORDON WHO THEN LED THOSE PRESENT IN A PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG. MAYOR FERRE: THIS IS A SPECIAL COMMISSION MEETING FOR THE URPOSE OF HEARING THE BUDGET. WE ARE GOING TO WAIT FORA SECOND FOR t-ATHER (3I- ARRIVAL. WHILE OE IS ARRIVING --- ON THE RECORD, ('fit. ANDREWS AND MR. LLOYD WITH REGARDS TO t'A1R ISLE AND THE (QUESTION OF PUTTING IT ON THE BALLOT FOR A VOTE. 1 HAVE BEEN RESEARCHING THIS AND 1 FIND MYSELF IN THE FOLL.AWING DILEMMA ON THE ONE SIDE IT SEEMS THAT A STRAW VOTE MAY NOT BE VERY MEAN- INGFUL, BECAUSE WHAT DOES IT REALLY MEAN IF THE PEOPLE FOR OR APART; IT MEANINGLESS REALLY BECAUSE IT'S ALMQST ASKING THE PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR THE AMERICAN FLAQ AND FOR MOTHERHOOD. IHEY REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE VOTING ON. LW THE OTHER SIDE IT SEEMS APPARENT THAT UNLESS WE GET SOME KIND OF AN APPRAISAL, THERE IS NO WAY REALLY FOR US TO PUT A MEANINGFUL MEASURE ON THE BALLOT SO THE PEOPLE WILL KNOW WHAT THEY ARE VOTING FOR. SO 1 AM AFRAID T WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE ENOUGH TIME BETWEEN NOW ANDTHE FIRST WEEK OF I TO DO THAT IN. WELL, 1 WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND TO THIS COMMISSION THAT WE PROCEED ANYWAY WITH GETTING THE APPRAISALS AND THAT PERHAPS IN THE FUTURE THAT WE MIGHT USE THAT AS THE BASIS SHOULD THERE BE ANY KIND OF AN ELECTION TO COME UP THAT WE TIE UNTO OR MAYBE WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR. BUT TO HAVE A STRAW VOTE, THE MORE ITHINK ABOUT IT AND THE MORE I LOOK INTO IT, IT JUST DOESN'T RAN ANYTHING BECAUSE THE PEOPLE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE VOTING ON AND 1 JUST WANTED TO SHARE THIS THOUGHT WITH YOU AND SEE WHAT WAS THE FEELING OF THIS COMMISSION WAS. 1 tS. GORDON: MY FEELING MR. MAYOR IS THAT IT WOULD BE HOPELESS TO PUT ANYTHING ON THE BALLOT FORA STRAW VOTE, IT MEANS NOTHING AS YOU SAY, HOWEVER, TO ORDER APPRA I SALS WHICH DO NOT COME CHEAP AS YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY ON PROPERTY AS LARGE AS THIS TeP T, UNLESS WE HAD AN ELECTION THAT WAS IN THE VERY FORESEEABLE NEAR FUTURE. 11 THINK IT MIGHT BE WISER TO WAIT UNTIL TWO OR THREE MONTHS ECPRIOR TO ANY ELECTION WE KNOW IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND THEN DO IT TWIN. BECAUUSSE THE COST OF LAM CHANGE FROM TIME TO TIME UP AND DOWN. JO 1 JUST DON T THINK WE WOULD BE SPENDING OUR MONEY WISELY. MAYOR FERRE: WELL, LET ME ASK THIS? I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT ROSE. HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE TO GET AN APPRAISAL( NOTE: AT 2:35 O'CLOCK P.M. FATHER GIBSON ENTERED THE COMMISSION MEETING. 1 sEPz5 inp Mr. Lloyd: 30 days. Mayor 'Ferre: See, and that wouldn't be enough for us to get it on the ballot by the first -- Mr. Lloyd: No, we have to notify them by the first week in October with our question all prepared. We've got the work all done,but we don't have the blanks with the amounts filled in. Mayor Ferree The problem is that there is no way to fill in that blank. Mr. Lloyd: That's right. Mr. Plummer: That was the point I wanted your address. I think that in the past and I could be mistaken and stand corrected if I am. Why couldn't we consider the offer made by the individual before this Commission and that offer was if this Commission would give him his money what he has in it, that was the mortgage broker and he spoke in the terms of 9 million dollars, that he would pack up or give it to us as I remember his comment was, "you own a piece of property", now why couldn't we use the reverse terminology of putting it on the ballot in the terms, the acquisition of Fair Isle for a park not to exceed 9 million dollars, which doesn't preclude this city from paying less and under combination procedures we would pay through court action, a fair value any how, is what.we are going to pay whichever way we do it? Now, I would like to throw that out, maybe it's all wet, but I think it's worth looking into, that we put a figure on the ballot not to exceed. Mayor Ferre: It's certainly one way to move ahead onto something. Mr. Plummer: And I just think if you don't move now the momentum is going to be lost and we are going to back into the same jackpot again. I think there is 21 acres , if I am not mistaken on Fair Isle. We are paying 400 and 70 some thousand per acre . 428 per acre for --- Mayor Ferre: Bayfront land is worth that right now. Mr. Plummer: That's right. If that is acceptable and legal , I would even want a buffer zone built into that to put it on the ballot, not to exceed 10 million dollars and because as I say, we are not going to set the price and the appraisals are not going to -- or the owners are not going to set the price. Mayor Ferre: Ok, Plummer, I think you struck on the only open avenue that we have because a straw ballot is meaningless and obviously an appraiser,we don't have time for, so we would be taking a chance that these people who are foreclosing on the property would live up to that statement that was made here, but certainly I think it wouldn't -- I don't see any harm in testing the will of the people in Miami . You know, some of the people that are against this approach, their criticism has been that we are just shrieking the responsible, but what they don't understand is that the City of Miami just don't have that kind of money to sit and tell 1/ 1 and #2, this is a purchase of a major piece of property, not just .... M. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I will offer that in the form of a motion, if it's legal? Mr. Lloyd: May I ask for some clarification? Let me say this, what I wish to know and I have the ordinances prepared, are you requesting that we submit to the Com- mission the appropriate ordinances to frame the question to go on the ballot for a bond issue to be authorized by the voters not to exceed 10 million dollars, is that the reason? Mayor Ferre: That's correct. Mr. Lloyd: Ok. I have the ordinances prepared all we have to do is fill in the blanks. Mayor Ferre: That's exactly what he is asking you to do and what he has done is he said for the figure not to exceed 10 million dollars. Mr. Lloyd: Now, if that's the case, the ordinances are at the office. I can have them delivered here this afternoon and you can pass them out on emergency basis, this afternoon, if you wish or you can wait until the Friday meeting, however, I know what --- perhaps you should hear from Mr. Andrews on this, because I know what he is going to say to it. Mayor Ferre: Go ahead Mr. Andrews. Mt. Andrew: floes the Commission and every member of the Commission recognize 2 SEP25190 when this offer was made, it was not trade by the property owner. Mayor yetre: No, I understand that. Mr. Plutt>fuer: No, it's by the mortgage holders who are in suit of foreclosures and if the foreclosures are successful then tney will be in their debt. Mayor Ferre: But of course, you understand from a very practical point of view, that if there is 9 million dollars in debt on that property. I find it very highly unlikely that the property owner who is not going into bankruptcy is going to find 9 million dollars to pay, so I would assume that once this is all done and over with that's what's going to be into the property. I would also estimate that is an accurate figure. Now, we have to understand that we eventually have to go into an appraisal procedural anyway. I am just -- we are all assuming that the appraisal will be that or higher and I think its a very pretty safe assumption. Well, we have prepared in advance already .... Mr. Lloyd: Well, we h .ve prepared in advance already —after my talk with Mr. Bailey on this same subject immediately after I was instructed about the City Commission to do so. Our ordinance says not to exceed that -- when you say 10 million dollars that's all and nothing more is you get . Mayor Ferre: That's right. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I would like the City Manager if this motion passes as part of the motion that he contact this mortgage attorney who represented the mortgage companies and get a definite commitment from him as he made here before this Commission, that is assuming that the motion passes and that we are not doing everything for naught. Mayor Ferre: Yea! Because otherwise it really doesn't make any sense to put it on the ballot. Mr. Plummer: Well, it was his offer. We didn't ask for it, he volunteered. Mr. Lloyd: Now, understand this, that would not be appropriate to go on any ballot or in these two ordinances. You do that simply by instructing Mr. Andrews to do that. Mayor Ferre: We all understand, but the point is unless there is a serious commitment, than for us to go through all of this and to have the people vote on it, is meanless if after that they say well you know, we think the property is worth 15 million dollars her is an appraisal, then we have to go through the appraisal route, they might or might not be enough, but upon the other hand except on as a commitment, if the voters vote for it we can always do that and if they don't give us that commitment, we can withdraw it from the ballot before it's printed. I don't know when it will go to print. Mr. Gordon: May I make a statement? I am going to have to leave this meeting early, as you know this is a very important day for me and if we just could bring this thing to a head and move on to the budget, I would be very much appreciate it. Mayor Ferre: Right away, we have a motion on the floor. Is there a second to that motion? Mr. Plummer: The motion is that we place on the ballot the acquisition of Fair Isle at a price not to exceed $10,000,000,00 for the consideration of the voters. Mrs. Gordon: Is it possible to receive some kind of a written confirmation from the owners before we place --- Mayor Ferre: No, no, not the owners -- Mrs. Gordon: The mortgage holders, so that we know where we are going and how to -- you know , --- how many days do we have to spare? Mayor Ferre: First week of October. Hrs. Gordon: And we have a meeting on the third, a special meeting. Mr. Lloyd: I would like if possible to get the ordinances passed on the 27th,now I will recheck with an offer and make sure that we can do it by October 1st. Mayor Verve: No, no, you send down to your office, let's get it done before we break up here today, if we don't get an assurance from them what they are willing to do then we will bring it up again and wemake take it out of the ballot,becauee if they say no that might be just -- motion on our part. Mr. Lloyd: I have the ordinance all prepared, all we have to do is --- I get them down here this afternoon. Mayor Ferre: This is not an ordinance. We :re just passing a resolution to have you prepare the ordinance and you bring it hack this afternoon. The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 74-1044 A MOTION DIRECTING THE CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE A PROPOSED QUESTION FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE VOTERS CALLING FOR A SPECIAL BOND ELECTION TO BE HELD NOVEMBER 5, 1974 PROVIDING FOR THE PURCHASE OF THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS FAIR ISLE TO BE USED AS A PUBLIC PARK, IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $10,000,000.00. Upon being seconded by Commissioner Reboso, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer. Jr. Commissioner Rose Gordon Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson Vice Mayor Manolo Reboso Mayor Maurice A. Ferre NOES: None. Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor, and member of the Commission, there is one more pressing matter, I know how quickly you want to get on this budget, but I think you better take this under consideration as.a result of the Commission meeting the other day in which you adopted in principle the Coconut Grove Study, you now have to do something about the interim zoning. Mr. Ferencik has since that time received an application for a building permit, which would fall back into the prior regulations and I think that what you want to do is extend that resolution which held an observ- ance. Mr. Plummer: There is no problem. The resolution which I offered before this Commission said that the band was in effect until one day after final action of this Commission. That would be after the last day of the zoning changes. That's a part of the implementation. Mayor Ferre: Now, anything else, any question from the Commission, we were going to get into the Social Services portion of the budget, so Mr. Andrews, do you want to cover that or do you want to receive questions from the Commission? My opinion in that you ought to cover it very briefly, and then we will get into the question portion. Mr. Andrews: I had hoped that the City Commission would have adopted the budget and Federal Revenue Sharing Budget if you will, at the same time two separate ordinances and by adopting that, you would have then allocated approximately 1 million dollars for the social types of programs that are proposed or will be proposed to the Comm - lesion. I sent the Commission a digest and this is not complete, this is a rather significant undertaking analysing these 6 million dollars worth of requests to determine if portions of each of these programs are funded through other agencies if there is duplication, some of these are new programs, some are long standing progress in the commmunity and between Metropolitan Dade County, United Fund, and myself, and staff of the City Manager's Office we have been going through this very carefully. This can be handled as a separate matter. I believe,my judgment at least, and this is something you will have to assess, it will be wiser for the Commission to adopt that budget, allocating a million dollars and then we will exercise judgment as to what we present to the Commission as to how best to spend that million dollars from these nearly 6 million dollars worth of requests. $ayor Terre: In other words what you are saying is we would not get involved in the decision process of where the million 1 would go at this time. SEP 4z 51g Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Andrews, will you clarify something? When we first asked you to do some juggling which you did with the general revenue sharing monies and the Federal Revenue Sharing Funds, in the original conception that you had, correct me if I am wrong, I believe you had budgeted an amount of 4 million 800 thousand dollars and then in the revised budget for the Federal Revenue Sharing a portion, you came back with 5 million 600 L difference of 800 thousand dollars of additional Revenue Sharing Fund to be placed :nto the general funding, is that correct? Therefore, doesn't that in effect say that, there is 800 thousand dollars less money for what I call people programs. Mr. Andrews: No, you will recall and if I may explain Commissioner Plummer. it was Commissioner Plummer to transfer certain functions that we w!re carrying on that appeared to be permanent, one of those which best decribes it is the fifth rescue unit, which was carried in Federal Revenue Sharing which was 350 thousand dollars. There was another Police matter of 350 thousand dollars, totaling 700 thousand dollars and approximately 650 thousand dollars in salaries, in order to get the salary account down to 2 million or less, those monies were transferred from Federal Revenue Sharing back to the budget and other items were transferred from the budget over to the Federal Revenue Sharing Funds so it was a transfer of funding rather than reallocation of funds. Mrs. Gordon: But the same total amount of monies are not the same. Mr. Andrews: It was the same total amount, except the only reason the contributions has gone up is because the way the programs are handled. We took 350 thousand dollars of fire rescue and moved it into the regular budget, we then took commodities, purchase of commodities from the regular budget and transferred it over to the Federal Revenue Sharing Funds so we are dealing with transfer of functions from one budget to the other end not increasing or decreasing the quantity of money. Mrs. Gordon: It looks that way though, when I look at the figures. Mr. Andrews: It isn't, and I can assure you that and I can supply you with a detail completereport on that to indicate percisely moved. Mrs. Gordon: How much total money then are we talking about Federal Revenue Sharing Funds? Mr. Andrews: 8 million 800 thousand dollars. Mrs. Gordon: That leaves more than a million differential between those two sums of 5 million 6 and the 8 million 8 is more than 1 million, explain that to me. Mr. Andrews: All right, there is in addition to that 1 million 200 thousand dollars in street lighting. So you will have to add that to it, they brings it up to 7 million dollars. Mrs. Gordon: I see it here but .... Mr. Andrews: You will notice if you look in your budget book ... Mrs. Gordon: Let me he very frank and honest and tell you why I am so deeply concerned with the same amount you have available for social programs, we have initiated certain social programs which have become apart of the services the city is offering to the people, now are you saying that .. are those continuing programs priority programa that will continue? Mr. Andrews: 0h yes ma'am they are included and funds are available from the prior year allocation to carry those on and those were specifically three projects. Mayor Ferre: Letwitnepecifically now, Mrs. Gordon is asking you and you stop me if I am paraphrasing.the Federal Revenue Sharing request for Child Day Care Centers and the Coconut Grove and the Windwood Area Elementary programs total 717 thousand doll- ars now, the question specifically is if you have allocation of 1 million 100 thousand dollars who can you possibly from that cover 717 thousand unless you fund that and only leave 400 thousand for the other requests or you have other sources that are allocated through that program. Mr. Andrews: Yes sir, the funds that were initially appropriated that was in this current year before it ends the end of September sufficient funds remain in those accounts to carry those programs throughout the entire next year. Now are you also including in that the Windwood program? Mrs. Gordon: The Windwood yes because see the Windwood program falls in under operation- SEP 2 5197f al funding by the "county" but capital improvements by the "Ltty"au .h ir_. is just a capital, but still it's yes and no because the no part is that it pelt.• no expansion of the program which is the normal course of events when you are deal- ing with social program of Child Day Care, more children and more parents giant to participate in that and I am hoping that's what this memorandum I sent you referrer' too and they are planning for an expansion o_ two more centers. One in the area .f. the west end of the city where we have nothing a. all whether it like --- in the Stephen P. Clark area, the Grapeland Heights area. Another one in that general precincty is needed and this is the reason why the request ask you to take into account; you have some money left over, but add another sum sufficient o begin our capital improvements in order to begin operating it , let's say tow.rd the end of this year. You are not going to have it right away, see, to have the -und operat- ing for a whole year, you are just going to have the fund operating maybe, for the summer portion which is - let's say it begins in the spring. Mr. Andrews: Well, those programs which are listed at the end of the index in the materials I supplied you the day after our meeting in which you had requested that it report on Federal Revenue Sharing as to where that program stood, we listed the 9 projects that we have received since August 21st and the first one on that list is Child Day Care Centers at 375 thousand . These programs then would be considered with the other 51 million dollars in projects and we will be coming to the Commission making a recommendation, I would... Mrs. Gordon: In other words, I have your assurance that I don't have to be concerned that my fellow Commissioners are not going to be receiving all kinds of letters from the public, you have given us something we like , it's good and now you are taking it away, we' are going to expand it, we are operating it, we are going to continue, right? Mr. Andrews: The only assurance I can give you is that I will give you the best prugram that I possibly can for the 1 million dollars that's available after reviewing all of this and then the Commission is going to have to make a policy decision whether... Mr. Plummer: Let me'pike in here because I got to make my thoughts known Rose. You know, you and I don't agree in this area. Let me say from the onset, I think the Day Care Centers are great programs, they are great programs, but I will tell you right now what I am in favor of,of taking the million and 100 thousand of whatever you've got and set aside and I am in favor of giving that money to the "county" and let them administer these programs. Many years ago, we went out of the business of social programs. All in favor of giving it to the "county", I think we will eliminate duplication of administration which is great and I am whole heartly in favor of today voting to give one million and 10 dollars or whatever the figure is to the "county" and tell them to run the programs, they are in the businesses of doing this and the only stiputlation that we add to it is that they operate these in the City of Miami cooperate limits. Mrs. Gordon: Can I make something clear that you haven't taken into consideration J.L.? That is that our program is not the same kind of program the "county", they do not and are not concerned primarily with anything other than the poverty level. In our programs we deal with children of all social economic level. For the first time in any governmental body, children of all social economic level are learning together, playing together and socializing together and this is one of the greatest steps forward that you could possibly imagine. This will have lasting effect much beyond the fact of just being in a school program and the county cannot institute this new program and second of all, our parks department is geared up in operation very well geared up with an excellent administrator, Robbie Chandler who has already began hiring personnel for the program and our program is great, we should be extre- mely proud we are intervating something as enormous as this, so I think when we are talking about. Quote,social services; a nebulous thing, that one thing but when we are talking about a very fine program that's never been done before in any juris- diction such as ours we don't want to give it away;"we want to improve it and help the whole world look at this community and say there is a progressive community".unquote. Mr. Plummer: Well, Rose, you know, we have the right to disagree, but what I am saying very simply is this. Mayor i'erre: Excuse me, J.L. May I recommend to all of you because this statement that Rose just made and the one that you made you made before and make it quickly and let's get on . Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I will snake it very quickly and I think that the problem that we niust be concerned and address ouraleves too is clearly delineated in Mrs. Gordon's memo, This year there is a request for an additional 3c,2 thousand beyond last year and conceivablely it will the same next year, again and again etc. , and I hope don't think that we should be duplicating Metropolitan Dade County in this business they are 6 SEP 25 194 already in. Mrs. Gordon: J.L. there is another important point and the Mayor ought to realize this too and maybe he does, during the vacation month of August, I was able to determine that there were Federal Funds (State) , I am not sure it was or not. Mr. Andrews, the extra funds that we were able to get by way of a grant which is directed to day care amounts to about 200 thousand dollars this money we wouldn't have had and the "county" could have perhaps, if they had gotten there without us asking for it, but we've got it and that's money that can be used for this kind of thing too, but we lose a lot of funding sources if we give away as you are suggesting our interest in the social services. We will loose the ability to fund. We can get grants and we ought to have a grantsmen as I said before on our payroll so that we can get all of the money we can get by way of extra grants. Mayor Ferre: We do by the way. Mrs. Gordon: Well, not particularly, not in the sense of a soul person dedicated their time specifically to finding the money out therein the woods. We don't have that and we should have that person, it would pay their salary over and over again, if we had it. Mayor Ferre: M. Andrews, how is the league of cities representative functioning? Is he worth the money we are paying him? Mrs. Gordon: Yes, he is worth what he is doing, sure. He is doing his job, Maurice, but that's not what we need. Mayor Ferre: Mark Israel has been an employee of the league of cities and functions through them and with them. Well, now, doesn't he chase down grants for us? Mr. Andrews: Yes, but not to the way that Mrs. Gordon is describing as someone that's here in-house that's looking to every avenue that would not only be federal but state. Mayor Ferre: This is what R. Leonardo was doing at the county level, remember at one time we talked about that, is that what that is? Mrs. Gordon: It really needs a man who is really a specialist, he knows where to get that money and he can bring it in. There is only a few people who have that had that special eye training. Ralph Re--- is one of them and there is another fellow, Milton Sutinsky is another one that has that has that kind of knowledge, but there maybe a half of dozen in the entire area that have that kind of technical skill. Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Andrews, I have too put you on record on this matter because it does involve the administration and we have a diversion on both ends of this Commission that have been expressed so far and I would like to hear the admin- istration's position on this. The specific question is, do you in your opinion think that the City of Miami should remain in the specific area of child care service. one, two, three, or more centers as they develop, should this be a program that we should pursue administratively within our own function or should we turn the monies over to Metro and let them structure this. From the stand point of the city admin- istration and I recognize that this is a difficult question to answer and certainly the Commission is divided in their views on this matter but I am approaching it purely from the administration of the city. We were able to obsorb and handle the administration of the three - four actually Day Care Centers when they come into being. I can not recommend to the Commission that we continue expanding these programs, it is worthwhile as it is and continue to provide the administrative services that are needed to carry on these kind of functions. If we had these four centers which would come into being and it was limited to the four centers, it would not post that much of a problem, but I recognize the quality and the value of this kind of a program and certainly it's needed in the City of Miami. There must be some way that we have find that the City Commission could exercise control over the establishment of these centers and give policy direction to it, but have the admin- istration come under the authority of Metropolitan Dade County in which they have the administrative vehicle for not only this, but other services, but still the authority vested in this Commission as to where the programs would be carried out. How much would be funded, who they would serve? But the actual day to day administration of it could be carried out under the county or it would have to be voted. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Andrews, I don't understand you: How do you expect to divorce our parks department from this program and still operate it in our parks system? Mop thers is no way, because this part and partial of our recreational program. 7 SEP25197 Mr. Plummer: I hate to get back into a hassle, but .... Mrs. Gordon: I am not talking about Welfare, these people pay. Mt. Plummer: Rose, 1 am not saying Welfare, but you see this is the very thing that I screened before this Commission last year, if you get into it, you are going to he into it over your head. Now, he a Rose, in your own memo you are asking and rightfully so, for an additional 342 thousand dollars this year, now it's just going to be something that we are not going to be able to control. 1 said last year and if I am not right that we were going to have 5 million dollars worth of requests for Federal Revenue Programs and we .... come so close to 5 million dollars it is even funny, now all I am saying is, we argued it last year I thought and I agreed Rose, if you remember, concurred with you, yes, let's get it off the ground, let's get it started and then the city would be a claim, then let's give it rightfully where it belongs to Metropolitan Dade County and I am back arguing the same .... Mrs. Gordon: J.L. the baby is in it's 8th month and you can't avoid it before its full term, it hasn't even come to be born yet, it's about ready, it's going to open in, 1 believe in a week or two. Mr. Plummer: And we provided the money. The monies are there. We are still going to give the money. I told you right now, I am in favor of giving the million dollars to the county to administrate with the strings attached that we set the policy and it can be down. I know it can be done. Mrs. Gordon: For them to begin at this point and time to start to administer this program, this program has to come to a complete halt and then it would have to gear up in their fashion and let me tell you with the county taking on M.T.A.. with the county on every other thing and wanting to take over this fire department that we have which the editorial and the paper said, let me tell you something, there aint going to be a city". Mr. Plummer: We have laughed at those editorials before. Mr. Andrews: In that circumstance where we are trying to program this and if there was a change, I would certainly recommend that we not immediately turn over these 1st (three) centers and so forth, take them underway and operate them, make sure they are functioning. Mr. Plummer: I agree. I would even want one of the stipulations that they assimilate the people as well as the program, intergrate those people into the program that we have the people that have been chosen. Let me tell you Mr. Mayor what really hurt me. We allocated some half of million dollars last year for Day Care per se and when I found out Mr. Mayor, that roughly 260 to 280 thousand dollars of that money went to administ- rative and personnel which left approximately 240 thousand dollars for the kids, now, if the county was running the thing, they are already in the business and maybe they would only have to take 100 thousand and the 400 thousand. Mrs. Gordon: J.L. you've got your facts all mixed up! Mr. Andrews: 500 thousand in round figures Mrs. Gordon, there was roughly 200 and something thousand dollars in capital improvements for the buildings and structures and so forth, the balance is all mainly for administration and carrying out the program. Mr. Plummer: My figures needed to be juggled, that's all, but still it's 260 thousand dollars administration. Mr. Andrews: Well, when you say administration, the bulk of that administration, is for the people who are going to actual operate the program. Mr. Plummer: Well, you know that what's I am saying. The county has got an administrator they have got the staff, they have got the personnel. I will shut up Mr. Mayor. Well, the only thing that I would like to ask is, in the same way that you have put the City Manager on the spot in reference to Day Care Centers, I would like to put the City Manager on the spot in the reference to the rest of the allocation of Federal Revenue Sharing for Social Programs. Mayor Ferre: To what sense? Mr. Plummer: Does he think that the city is best in the position of delegating these monies to these 5 million dollars in request or should we turn over flat 1 million dollars to the county and tell all of these people to go to go to the county( I am just asking). 8 SFI'2519$ Mr. Andrews: In my judgment, and of course this is a political decision, but 1 judgment you would want to maintain control, analysis these requests and make a ueter- mination where you want the million dollars spent in the City of Miami and where in those programs can be carried out under the county and have the county administer the prograe after you have made the basic decisl-n. Mayor Ferre: Allright, let me speak to this now, because I have remained silent on this. On the one hand, I agree with Commissioner Gordon that I think these are very valuable programs that we have got to protect, so I am all for the program and I think we have got to protect them. Number two: I also feel that it would be very unwise for us to turn anything over at it's birth, I think we certainly should pIrsue that a little bit further. Number three: I do agree with Commissioner Plummer, that we should not fall into the temptation is what it really amounts too, for us to get in involved in the administration of the program per s. and I agree with the Manager decision on that, in other words, I think we have got an obligation to the citizen to get involved and I think we have a obligation to fund it from revenue sources and dedicate some of our monies to these purposes where I think we have to be very care- ful is, in the actual administration of these programs ourselves and you know. One last point, Number four: I think that we should maintain the range of the money is really what counts. In other words, we should say, here is where the money should be spent and I don't think that we should abdicate that role, all I am saying is, rather than abdicate that I concur with is to delegate. Now, delegation of power or money does not mean an abdication of the responsiblity or an abdication of the authority so.' would like to see the City of Miami maintain authority and maintain responsiblity but delegate the actual administration of the funds with the inherit rights that if they are not administered to our satisfaction we can in the future, should we still have these funds available for the federal government or others, that we could with draw the delegation of that administration. Mr. Plummer: In the same way, Mr. Mayor, the publicity departments acts on a contract- ual basis, we could do the same with Metro and Day Care. Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, we could also, continue to seek federal funds, see- and this would be a contractual arrangement. I think this ought to be a written contract, so that it's our program, just administrated by this agent. Mrs. Gordon: I haven't any objections to certain instances. In fact we didn't last year and I think we need to do it right in this consideration today. We are giving to the school board as you know, money to run the after school care program and we are being commended all over the place for this action and I am for that, the only reason I am opposed to our Day Care being transferred is because it's in the parks system and I don't want Metro coming into our parks and telling us how to run our parka , because the same personnel that runs the Arts and Crafts for let's say, our different programs, runs it for the children on a basis too, this is why I separate the two, on the contractual basis with the school board, yes, that's excellent. Mr. Plummer: That's great, I think that's the way it should be. Let me ask one question, Paul, how much is carried over or how much would be needed from this year's million dollars, to see this program through from a funding stand -point for what you have right now? Mr. Andrews: Nothing: I think Mrs. Gordon and I had a difference of opinion of 40 thousand dollars and I can't remeber, maybe Mrs. Gordon can remember and Mrs. Gordon I think our program this year is short by that 40 thousand. Mrs. Gordon: 'hat's the 40 thousand we put for Windward Park capital improvements of which, I think 20 of it, is not going to be used, because one of the two locations, the board of directors are the owners of the property declined our offer, so there maybe only 20 thousand and you may have 20 left, I am not sure. Mr. Andrews: To safe guard that position though, on the Day Care Center, the most that would come out of this year's program to continue the programs for an additional year that are already launched would be 40 thousand dollars. Mr. Plummer: I am all in favor of it. Mr. Andrews: And if we don't need it, then, we don't need it, but ... Mrs. Gordon: But you are going to get that extra money from the grant that we applied for. Could we also at the same time take into consideration if this is the time to do it, the After School Care Program, the Sc*eocbdof Education is handling for ue, our resolution (1 believe) carried it over it over until September 30th, if we don't take any action on it right now, on October let, a lot of children (around 9 SEP 25 1971 5 or 600) children of working mothers and fathers are not going to have any place to be kept and a lot of parents are really scared, so I think --= there is around 7 or 8 monies left over that will take care of the program. We will have to move some kind of a resolution permitting them to use the balance they have left until our new budget is approved in acutality so, how cal we proceed on that Mr. Andrews. Shall I offer the motion now. The following motion vas introduced by Commissioner Gordon, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 74-1045 A MOTION EXTENDING THE AGREEMENT FOR AFTER SCHOOL CARE PROGRAM WITH THE DADE COUNTY BOARD OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION; UNTIL THE FUNDS REMAINDING IN THE CUR- IUM APPROPRIATION HAVE BEEN EXPENDED. Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Rose Gordon Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson Vice Mayor Manolo Reboso Mayor Maurice A. Ferre NOES: None. Mrs. Gordon: (This is the second motion) The motion is that we will go on record that we desire to continue this After School Program which is being serviced by the Board of Education for the care of children in our school system( working mothers) the same amount on a yearly basis as we funded last year. I think that was a 3/4 of a year program. Mr. Andrews: It's reported to me that for an year�sooperation that they would require $342000 . Mrs. Gordon: No, that's not correct, just a minute. Mr. Fassey, could you tell us how much money we have to consider in the refunding of this After School Program for the next year? Mr. Fassey: The amount that the city appropriated for this year was 150 thousand and that was for our program which began on March llth and ran through Sept. 30th, so it was not really a full year. Mrs. Gordon: How much of it is we talking about for the full year? Mr. Fassey: I think it 200 and something to continue this 3 and then if you wanted to add some more. I think we estimate about 65 thousand a year. Mrs. Gordon: If we added another school. Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, let me of 342 thousand a year, what is Mrs. Gordon: That included two the three schools, and two more ask what's in this booklet here, After School Care that? new schools. Oh: that included the present schools, schools. Mr. Plummer: Rose, let me tell you my feelings, it's very simple. We are talking about after, and I am trying to keep tally of 40 thousand for Wyndwood Park, if we tally 342 thousand, we are talking about a third of our total Federal Revenue Sharing which would be dedicated to social service and I think before we do or except a motion such as that, we should take the total picture into line, because we do have some almost 5 million dollars. Mayor Peres: I would concur with that,because I don't think that this is the time for it really to be pulling one issue out. I think we have got to listen to all of them and it's very unfair. 10 SEP 25197t, Mrs. Gordon: Well, that's the continuing one, that isn't the new one. I questioned you before as to whether we were going to abandon programa we had already started which served the people in favor something that we haven't done and it wouldn't be my opinion that we should start something and then drop it, and run onto something else. Mr. Plummer: Well, this does include expansion. Mrs. Gordon: It calls for one or two locations if we can, if we can't well, that's something else again, it would be my opinion if we can that we should, but even if we can't run into the expansion program, it would be my personal opinion, a reall hardship to take away the programs that are already in existence. Mayor Ferre: Well, we have a motion, is there a second to the motion. Mrs. Gordon: The motion that I am going to make at this time is that we continue the programs that we started. Mayor Ferre: Well, you understand the implementation of that now, that means that you are going to cut out Beverly any other programs that maybe coming to us from the United Fund and Metro and the city joint for it. I am not against that Rose,and I am going on record right now,saying it that I think we really would have to think really very seriously to cut out one program that's already in existence to got to another program. Mrs. Gordon: You mean the new ones, you are talking about, well, I am talking about the extisting ones. Mayor Ferre: I am talking that, I am saying that it would be very difficult for me to vote; to cut out a successful existing social program to start a new social program. I am agreeing with your philosophy, however, I don't think that this is the time for us to go on record as you are stating, because that in effect , because that in effect would .... as you are stating --- Mrs. Gordon: It's not for any other reason except that this school board has to be prepared with personnel so they know they can plan their program, they can't just SO to the last day and say ok, we have to assure them that we are going to continue we don't have to assure them that we are going to expand, but we have to at least tell them that they are going to continue the present program. Mayor Ferre: Ok, but then, we go through the same procedure that we always seem to end up in and that we appoint committees that we never pay attention too. Mrs. Gordon: Not necessarily, that's a different thing. Ok, Mr. Tassey, may I ask you a question, if we don't take any kind of assuring action today, where does that place the program? Mr. Tassey: Of the instructions that we have is that the contract is terminated on Sept. 30th, unless we have some indication that the city would plan to continue, now I've advised the City Manager that it looks as though there will be enough funds to carry us through until your budget is financed. Mrs. Gordon: We already passed that motion that you already have that to continue using the money you left over, but what I am talking about following year. How much time do you have to have in order to prepare the coming year? authority now is for the yourself for Mr. Tassey: Well, the program is on going assuming that the budget would be approved then there would be no interuption, we would be able to continue, if anything happens to change that figure to zero, for example, then we would have to advise everyone immediately that the program is over. Mayor Ferre: I think we understand. Mrs. Gordon: Now many children are in that program Mr. Tassey. In other words, 500 children would suddenly left to rome the streets. Mr. Tassey: 500 children were served from March until the present but there is something over 200 in the program now. Mayor Ferre: present time. Motion? A11 right. Thank you. 500 effective through the program, 200 at the Nov, we have a motion from Mrs. Gordon, is there a second to the Mrs. Gordon: Be specific the amount of monies that would fund the present programs 11 SEP 2 5197 A, are $212,000.00. Mayor Ferre: Is there a second to the motion? One last time is there a second to Mrs. Cordon's motion? A11 right, hearing none the motion dies from lack of a second. Mr. Plunner: Mr. Mayor, I would like to offer a motion at this time that we immediately instruct the City Manager to inter into a contra^tual negotation with Dade County for the purposes of operating on a contractual basis, the three Day Care existing centers that we have presently. At a cost not exceed a half of million dollars from our Federal Revenue Sharing expense. I offer that in the form of a motion. Mayor Ferre: You mean of the million 100 thousand. Mr. Plummer: Yes sir. Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, J.L. I don't know whether you heard the manager say that there was enough carry over funds to carry this program as it's constituted for the rest of the year. Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, I agree with that and --- You see, this is where we are getting out of context. I don't want it anyway this thing, to stop or terminate and we've got enough funds to carry it through this year and what I am speaking to really is the 75-76 budget that there will be intering into of a negotation between now and the next budget and at the next budget we would into the 21 million dollars. Mra. Gordon: J.L. we may not even be around next year, all of us, so let's not plan that far as turning it over. Mayor Ferre: I think that stands on it's own is, that the manager be instructed to commence negotations and bring to this Commission in its final form for his recommend- ation, a contract with Metropolitan Dade County to take over this specific program, I mean conceptually, don't start putting in the dollars and cents on it. Make that is a second motion. Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, I'll do that but I want it fully understood that I expect this city to pay for it. Mayor Ferre: I understand, obviously, otherwise we are talking film OM 011• Mra. Gordon: But then J.L. are you still recognizing the fact that Metropolitan Dade County is going to come into our parks system and operate it. Mr. Plummer: Oh yes: Mrs. Gordon: You are. Mr. Plummer: Oh sure: But we are going to eliminate Rose, in my estimation of the duplication of administrative cost. Mrs. Gordon: No, you are not because you are going to multiply it. Why don't you get an opinion from Mr. Howard whose running the program and let Mr. Manager discuss it with him and let how he feels about it? Mr. Plummer: Well, I am sure when he enters into this negotation that he would consult with Mr. Howard and Mr. Howard would be a part of the negotation. Mr. Andrews: Let me assist the Commission this way, without making any commitment or without passing a resolution or motion at this stage. I understand the intent and I understand what Mrs. Gordon ---- Mayor Ferre: But you don't understand what the will of this Commission is! Mr. Andrews: But let me say this, are you taking into consideration that all of this were to occur only after we had the programs under way and was in -applicable. Mr. Plummer: Yes and they are paid for. Mayor Ferre: And that should be part of the motion. Mr. Plummer: They are already paid for, that's what I am trying to get, so that no- body can come back and say, well, you stopped the programs, I am not stopping anything, they are paid for this year. We. Gordon: J.L. if you feel that strongly about it, is there any strong reason why 12 SEP25197# you want to do it now, when you know that I have to leave in 20 minutes and we have a budget that has to be taken up and we have been debating on this for 3/4 of an hour? Mayor Ferre: I am going to stop all discussion on this item. Mr. Plummer: Mr, Mayor, I will be happy to wait, if she will exceed to the point that we won't have any further discussion on it. I will exceed to the point and I won't discuss it and I withdraw my motion. Mrs. Gordon: Ok, let's move on with the regular budget please. Mayor Ferre: Will you withdraw your motion at this time? Mr. Plummer: I will be happy to sir. Mayor Ferre: All. right, sir, Mr. Andrews, you've got the ball. Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, let me say this then, that I think you got a good point and I think that we can all agree on, and I think that the manager would like to agree on. Are there any other areas of the Federal Revenue Sharing that we have disagreements , so that he can know that is blocked in, now I only have one other area of disagreement, which I have made fully known to this Commission and that is to the School Resource Officer, now if not, I think - Mr. Manager, I believe it would .be doing you a favor sir, if we can agree on the 1 million(whatever it is) here that's for social services and exclude that from conversation then take up the rest of the Federal Revenue Sharing except for the points that any of these Commissioners might have, including myself, and say yes, ok we now agree with Federal Revenue Sharing, let's go to the other budget. Would that help you or would it hinder you? Mr. Andrews: Yes, yes, no that bender me. Mayor Ferre: Now, Mr. Plummer before you continue, I want to make sure that this is understood on the record that as you said the will of this Commission, the will of this Commission has not been expressed, this is your will, you haven't put it to the test of a vote yet. Mr. Plummer: No question Mr. Mayor, all I am saying is, that I have a violent dis- agreement which I have made known about School Resource Officer, and there is no other problems we can block this portion in and we have at least accomplished some- thing and we can move on to the other. Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Plummer we heard you. Mrs. Gordon: Are we going on with the regular budget now, or what? Mayor Ferre: Now, he wants to make a motion on the 1 million 100 thousand dollars. Mr. Plummer: Well, I am willing to make if we can come to some agreement on the School Resource Officer Program, I am willing to except the Federal Revenue Sharing as is. If that's agreeable. If it's not Mr. Andrews: Let me reconstruct real quickly for the Commission the posture of that matter. We have in operation this year a $400,000 program for School Resources. We have approximately $100.000 of that money left over in Federal Revenue Sharing which we would extend on over to the next year, as a result of that, we eliminated $100,000 increment then at the last budget hearing I recommended (opposed) to the Commision an alternative in which you could eliminate an additional $100,000 reduc- ing the program to $200,000 and depending on the school board to ( well it would really be $300,000) $200,000 in this year's budget and $200,000 in last year's but it would be a reduction. Mayor Ferre: No, no , now you are getting me mixed up, $100,000 from last year is what you said. $100,000 from last year and $200,000 from this year. Mr. Andrews: It was $300,000 in that program and still is and you are considering that matter that is presented on the chart which would reduce it further 100 thousand dollars. If you accept or decide to adopt what was on that chart, there would be $200,000 from this current budget and $100,000 .... Mayor Ferre: slow much would be carried over from the previous budget? Mr. Andrews; $100,000. 13 SEP2,5197`„ Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews: $100,000 leas words, that a is for School That's makes $300,000, where do you get the $400,000? All I am trying to explain to the Commission is that, that is than the kind of program we had initiated this year. In other reduction of the program and the only way it could be made up Board participation . Mayor Ferre: I see. In other words, what you are saying is, rather than to go to a $400,000 program, you would go to a $300,000 program and it would be funded $100,000 carried over and $200,000 from this budget. Mr. Plummer: Now, how much wag it last year?$400,000, so really what you are saying is that in the 2 year program, it's costing $700,000? Mr. Andrews: Well, we didn't spend the $100,000.00, so I can't answer your question positive without thinking of it some more. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I have made my thoughts known, I will offer a motion to that effect and let the will of the Commission prevail. I say that this Commission and I will offer it in the form of a motion. Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, I might(of course, you have a right to offer any motion that you want) but I might repeat I think that it is unfortunate that we tie one thing to another sometimes, I think that really, as we make important motions that we try to leave them as free as possible. If you want to move that motion first and then move the second motion that's fine but to make it one motion to me, is really not a fair way to do it because, I might have to vote"no", if you tie them together and voteeyes" if you separate them. Mr. Plummer: Well, simple motion which 1 don't know how to end of it. This is with the million.... Mr. Mayor, I don't know how to make two motions out of a very, says we match dollar for dollar of what the school board puts up. make two motions. This program is not involved into social service a separate program out of social services, this has nothing to do Mayor Ferre: Well, that's why you got me completely confused, you said you were going to tie one to the other. I didn't understand why you would be doing that. Mr. Plummer: No, sir, it's all from Federal Revenue Sharing. Mr. Mayor, I offer a motion at this time that this Commission offer from Federal Revenue Sharing matching dollars for every dollar that the school board puts up for the school resource officer program. Mayor Ferre: You realize that what you may be doing is cutting the program in half. Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, it's get back to the simple thing t.ith me is whose responsibility is it? Mayor Ferre: You see, that's not what the Manager ,of course, we could take the same thing at the same point with the City of Miami Child Care- and say maybe it's not our responsibility,let the school do it or let Metro do it, so you know, you can use these arguments in a lot of different places. Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, let me insinuate my point. When the school board was very obviously unhappy with the security patrol that we was providing to them, they saw fit in the need and responsibility to start their own without any help from this city or the county or anyone else. Now, if they think this program is such a great program and such need. I am willing to help them and match every dollar they put into with the City of Miami Federal Revenue Sharing dollar, but Mr. Mayor, I think -- I can come before this Commission legitimately with a thousand requests that are leg- itimately proposals, good programs, programa of need. Mr. Mayor, I think this Commission has got to delineate the fact of where we are going to start and where we are going to stop this year and I just checked the figures ,the figures were wrong. I said last year that we were going to have 5 million dollars worth of requests for our monies this year and I stand corrected, it's 5 million 586 thousand. Now, W. Mayor, you go on infinitum and I am just saying that we the city... I've made my motion. .Mayor Ferre: Is there a second to the motion? Is there a second to the motion. There is a second to the motion. Is there further discussion on the motion? If not, call the roll, please. .14 SEP 25 197p The following (notion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved its Adoption: MOTION NO. 74-0046 A MOTION DECLARING THE INTENTION OF THE CITY COMMISSION TO PROVIDE FROM FEDERAL REVENUE SHARING FUNDS MATCHING DOLLARS TO EQUAL AN AMOUNT TO BE ALLOCATED BY THE DADE COUNTY BOARD OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION FOR THE SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER PROGRAM. Upon being seconded by Commissioner Reboso, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Rev. Gibson, Mrs. Gordon, Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso NOES: Mayor Ferre ABSENT: None. Mr. Plummer: Now, Mr. Mayor with that exception of an additional 300. What will that make available, additional for .... Mayor Ferre: Depending on what they match. We don't know. The way you .... Mr. Plummer: Oh, I'm sorry I thought we knew that it was $97,000.00. Mayor 1•erre: Oh---- no: Mr. Plummer: That gives you then $50,000.00 to delegate, is that correct? Mr. Andrews: In addition to the $100,000 if you ---- Mr. Plummer: All right. So that's a 150 thousand re -delegate and there would be no apprehension on your part to delegate that to the Police Department. Mr. Andrews: Thai.'s right. Mr. Plummer: Ok. Fine, I have no objections. Now, Mr. Mayor based on that I am ready to offer a motion with the proviso that the social programs of 1 million 100 thousand is yet to be decided by this Commission as to its delegation that we accept the Federal Revenue Sharing Budget as proposed by the Manager with the corrections so noted. And that was just a transfer of funds and we will reserve the 1 million whatever it is. Mayor Ferre: One million one hundred thousand. Mr. Plummer: To a later date when Mrs. Cordon is not pushed for time. Mr. Andrews: It's about 1 million 11 thousand dollars, because you had already committed 85 thousand dollars for the Dr. Martin Luther King Blvd. Development which came nut of that ... Mr. Plummer: We're committed to that. We are committed to Wynwood for $40,000.00. Mrs. Gordon: No, that's not from the new budget. That's from the old budget of 40,000. Mr. Plummer: No, from this one Rose. Mrs. Gordon: Number 1. Ok. All right, I understand your point. You are replacing that deficit. Mr. Plummer: With those exceptions noted I move that we adopt it.... Mrs. Gordon: Wait, J.L. before you do it, why don't you include the After School Care Program? It's the same as the Martin Luther King advancement and the other. It sits in the same thing. And certainly, you are not going to be one who's going to tell these kids to play out in the street after school. The police will have more work, to do. You'll have to budget the police with more money than you have already. SEP 2 51579 Mr. Plufter: But Rose, my baby needs diapers. Mrs. Gordon: All right then, I'll buy your pampers! Mayor Ferret Make your :notion. Mr. Plummer: My motion stands, Rose the 150 will come from the social programs. Mrs. Gordon: Amend it. Mayor Ferre: All right, you have a motion. There is a motion for an amended motion. Mra. Gordon: 1 amend it to include the funds requested. The 200,000 for the School Board for the After School Care Program. Mayor Ferre: Is there a second to the amended motion? Is there a second to the amended motion? Is there a second to the amended motion? Hearing none it died from a second. Now, make your motion again. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor my motion is that we adopt the Federal Revenue Sharing Funds with the exception of the delegation of the $1,011,000.00 earmarked for social programs that we adopt it as amended. Mayor Ferre: All right is there a second to that motion? Is there a second to the motion? Mr. Plummer: What's the problem? Speak up Father, I can't hear you. Father Gibson: Tell us again what Mr. Plummer: Father, what I am saying is, I think we all, unless anyone has any other disagreements. We will not touch the 1,011 delegated to Social Services. We say and we agree that, that is delegated. Unidentified Speaker: 10%. Mr. Plummer: Right. That's delegated for Social Services. Mr. Reboso: That is exactly what the City Manager recommended. Mr. Plummer: Right, and we will fight about that if there is a fight at a later time. But the remain portion of the Federal Revenue Sharing is adopted as recommended and modified by the --- Father Gibson: A11 right, let's do it. Mrs. Gordon: On discussion and I am asking you J.L. a very pointed question. If this is a first to a second, then I will vote "no" to your motion, but if you tell me it isn't then I will vote "yes" and that is this, if that's the first of two motions then I will vote "no", if it's not and this is not your intention to then follow this motion with - let's give it all to Dade County to do with as they please as the second motion then --- If you are not going to do that I'm going to vote with your motion. If you are going to do that I'm going to vote "no" to your motion. I am telling you right now. I want to know your intent and if you can tell me your intent, then I'll know how to vote. Mr. Plummer: Well, not giving up my right of anytime of making a motion Rose. I will tell you I think I covered you very clearly by saying that we will fight about the 1 million 011 later. Mrs. Gordon: I don't want to fight about something later. If you are going to do that later, say I'm going to do it later and then I'll know how to vote on this motion. I am going to vote "no" to any motion that comes up where allocating any money for Federal Revenue Sharing Funds, unless this city excepts the responsibility of taking care of the people and that's part of it and if you are going to do it the other way then I am going to vote "no". Father Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I call for the motion. $re. Gordon: Me didn't give me an answer, Reverend, Father Gibson. Mayor Ferret All right. Give her an answer and then we are going to call the question. 16 Mr. Plummer: I will to tell you Rose, that I am not trying to any way influence that portion dedicated to social programs. In no way, am I trying to influence thAt. Mrs. Gordon: over and let them do what they what say. Mayor Ferre: It didn't say that! Mr. Plummer: It didn't say that, Rose. And you are not going to follow it with a motion to transfer it all Mayor Ferre: And he's not making that commitment. As I understand it, now I don't know whether you want to put words in his mouth. Mrs. Gordon: And I am going to say call the roll and I'll vote no. Mayor Ferre: Call the roll. The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 74-1047 A MOTION ADOPTING THE FEDERAL REVENUE SHARING BUDGET AS PRESENTED BY THE CITY MANAGER WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE DELEGATION OF THE $1,011.000 SET ASIDE FOR THE SOCIAL PROGRAMS. Upon being seconded by Commissioner Gibson, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso, Rev. Gibson, Mayor Ferre NOES: Mrs. Gordon ABSENT: None REGULAR BUDGET Mr. Andrews: Would the Commission like to see the chart that I had presented because that's the basic decision aren1a? Mayor Ferre: You might ash iering them out, because where we are at as I understand it when we broke up. That we are within a half a million dollars of their balance. We started to bark when you had that 573,000 dollars that we needed to get. Because that was the area that went into the Police Department and the Fire Department and you recommended it. You said these are areas but you were not recommending them. Mr. Andrews: Yes. There is one more. There is one matter that I want to bring to the Commission attention that could be considered as far as the deletion of the (7) seven new positions in the Police Department and that is that instead of deleting (7) seven new positions. It would be possible to take approximately (14) fourteen of those new positions which are mainly civilian personnel to be employed in that station to release personnel and provide other services of the total of (41) forty-one. Those could be phased in such a way that the (14) fourteen would be equivalent a half a year salary each and thereby, you would not need to eliminate the positions. Mr. Plummer: That's fine. Paul, why don't you put all the charts out here? All four (4) of the charts, so we'll have a basis from which to ---- Mayor Ferre: Put all the charts before the Commission if you will. All of us. Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission. We were at a point where refer- ring to the chart on the far right, where we down to a matter of looking for one million five hundred and fifty thousand dollars which represented .488 mills. Several days later, I came to the Commission with the additional adjustments on that first chart which represented 771 thousand, 100 dollars and with three items of revenue, which represented 246 thousand which was about a million dollars of the million and one half (11), that left an area here of some ten or eleven items , totaling 534 thousand dollars. That we were considering and vent through and explained at that time to the Commission the various items and asked that an itemized list be sent to you. It was sent to you the following morning •o that you have received that and I have it before me. And I'll .17 SEP 25 197# extra copies available if the Commission doesn't have their copy with them. But with that in place Mayor Perre: 1 might point out Mr. Manager that - with the motion that was taken this morning about the School Resource Office.. Program that in effect what you nay have gotten is an additional $200,000, maybe I don't know. Conceivably; Mr. Andrews: What was the word I misused? Mayor Ferre: I am saying that if they are going to put up $96,000 and what Mr. Plummer is saying is, that we match whatever they put. They already have a hundred thousand dollars carried forward, so there is $200,000 additional that you may get. Conceivably. Mr. Andrews: Yes, yes, yes. Mayor Ferre: I mean I have a feeling they probably make come up a little bit higher. And I really want to go with you and please ask that this Commission go before ---- Mr. Andrews: I certainly will. Because I have a great deal of faith in that program and I just hate to see it die. Mrs. Gordon: I don't think any of us want it to die Maurice. I don't die. I disagree with J.L. on that point. That they have to pay their share. They got plenty of funds that we help pay them. We pay those taxes too. I think they should match us dollar for dollar. And I don't think they should let the program die. Mr. Andrews: The Commission, if it chose with - for sure the $50,000 dollars in Federal Revenue Sharing Funds. You could at least go back and consider that area which probably would get - it's very difficult to resolve is -- Mr. Plummer: Paul, let me ask two questionsf rom the very on sought, because I'vP made my thoughts known and I must have assurances from you. Number one, in the Fire Judget if we accept your proposal and I am basing that on If we accept the operating millage at 8.875, if we drop down to the 8.387 that is the certified. Mr. Andrews: Mr. Plummer: have to give Mr. Andrews: Mr. Plummer: That's right. All right. Now, if we go to the 8.387, I want to know #1 what's going to if anything in the Fire Department. I want to hear him say it. Nothing. Nothing. Mt. Andrews: The only thing I explained to you is the phasing in of the new positions which we would do anyway, but we'll have $55,000 less in fund balance next year. Mr. Plummer: Ok. Number two. Mayor Ferre: Wait, wait a minute. Number one. in other words, what you are saying, oh- I see you don't have any fire you just have the police. Mr. Andrews: The fire is over on that one, Mr. Mayor. These two go together. Let's move them together. Mayor Ferre: A11 right. In other words what you are saying is fire is $55,000 that will be affected. Mr. Andrews: But that would have occurred anyway. Mr. Plummer: Ok. Now, if we accept the 8.387 millage, what is going to have to give in the Police Department? Father Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I'd like for those who are here to see, you know, after all they may be able to Can't we put them this way? And even if it means we must get come down off the high horses and get down there. I want those people to see, that 's what I am talking about. Mt. Plummer: Ok. Let me ask something, Paul, because I think the two charts are very distinct. Is that correct? Mr. Andrews: Yes. 18 • Mr. Plummer: All right, If we except the 8.875 we then incorporate everything on this chart. If we then force the 8.837 we have to include this chart. Is this correct? Mr. Andrews: These two charts. Mr. Plummer: Right. But if we come down to the 8.875 we only have to accept this one. Is that really what we are saying? Mr. Andrews: If you come down to the 8.837 you have to consider everything on both of those charts. If it represents a million 500,000 dollars. Mr. Plummer: But to come down to the 8.875 we only have to accept number 2. Mr. Andrews: No, you don't have to accept neit h:eene of those. That represents a million and one half dollars. Mr. Plummer: A11 right. I am sorry. Ok. Now, let me come back to my second question. My second question is if we come down to the 8.387 what is going to have to give in the Police Department? Mr. Andrews: Well, you already made one of the basic decisions and that's the School Program. The other one is either eliminate seven(7) positions for the entire year or take fourteen(14) of those no positions and budget them for a half a year. Mr. Plummer: If we take the fourteen new positions and budget them for a half a year, then nothing gives, is that correct? Mr. Andrews: That's right. Mr. Plummer: Now, let me have one other understanding. Those fourteen positions are not sworn officers. Mr. Andrews: They don't have to be. No. Mr. Plummer: They were contemplated not to be. Mr. Andrews: That's right. I can tell you the make up of the forty one positions. They were approximately ten officers(this is round figures and thirty-one civilian personnel. Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, let me interrupt for a moment and Mr. Manager I want you to listen, if you would please for a moment to this. Because we are getting to a point where I want to express some opinion right away. Mr. Plummer: Go right ahead. Mayor Ferre: I think that what we are doing now is we are getting so dangerously close to the bone. That in effect you are getting to the jugular vein. Now, the City of Miami is composed of more than the Police Department and the Fire Department. Even though, I agree that those are the most sensitive areas because they are dealing with life saving portions of our programs. But there are other things to the City of Miami. Now, I noticed in this morning's newspaper that the beach slashes budget, but not enough to get to their certified millage. I noticed that the Gables ok's budget, but not enough to get down to the certified. And it really comes down to this. I think that we have an obligation to really get down to the very, very, very finish, most effective belt tightening position. I think we've got to be very dangerous that we don't kill the public body called the City of Miami by reducing the amount of fee that it gets to the point that we are not going to get any milk and we are going to kill the cow. So I think we got to be very careful with this, because what we are doing is cutting up all the fat and getting right down to the bone. Now, I for one am willing to go from the three million dollars that we are talking about in the initial budget, in this budget. I am willing to go down 21/4 million dollars. I will not vote for anything underthat, because I think you're getting right down to jugular vein. Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, I don't have any disagreement with you in your philosophy. The only thing that I think that we come down is to a matter of priority. Now, what I am saying is if we go with the 8.8 that means Paul, that we are still below the actual dollar assessment, is that correct? Mr. Andrews: That's right. 13 SEP25?971 Mr. Plummer: Ok. We ate still low the exceeding allege. All right, but if we go with the 8.8 we don't have to take any of these cuts. Mr. Andrews: None of those. Mr. Plunner: A21 right, let me ask the final question. If we go with 8.3 what else has got to be cut? Mr. Andrews: Just what you see on those two charts. Mayor Pert*: On what chart? Mr. Plummer: The left chart. Mr. Andrews: That 530 some thousand dollars. $534,800.00. Mr. Plummer: Well --- Mrs. Gordon: Look at them one by one J.L. Mr. Plummer: That's what I am doing Rose, you know,I look at the thing as member- ship. All right, the City Clerk I think they got to have the file system unless we change their set-up, so I think that's got to stay. Civil Service, truthfully the only thing I would want to reduce there would be the membership. You've got to advertise to get help. You've got to have that polygraph. It's been a sore point. I think we've got to have it, so the only thing I would cut out of there is the membership. Publications and membership. Mrs. Gordon: You've got $4,500. Mr. Plummer: We11, the $4,500 is to be left in for the polygraph, Rose. Mayor Ferre: Wait a minute, are you going to reduce advertising three thousand? Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I said the only thing I would reduce out of the Civil Service and keep reduced out is the fifteen hundred for publiciation and membership. Mayor Ferre: That's what I said in the beginning . So therefore you got fifteen hundred dollars that's all. Mr. Plummer: Ok. The City Manager's budget I can agree and will agree that the twenty thousand seven hundred be eliminated and I also agree as I said before that Mr. Bergstrom I think can legitimately be put over to the bond side and that would be an additional saving's of 23,000 dollars. The Budget Department delete one Manager Analyst, I'll agree with. Police we are not worried about that comes out. Sanitation reducing the street sweeping program 60, I can't agree. Reduce the white wings I can't agree. Public Works reduce the asphalt, I can't agree. Parks & Recreation, delete 6 positions, I'd have to think about that one. Building Department , yes delete one Building & Zoning Supervisor, substitute two positions. I'll agree to that point, but I've said that I think it should go further. Finance delete one typist, I agree. Public Properties reduction the motor fleet 25, garage 66.7 I'll agree. Publicity, Community Programs, I disagree. The others are income have no bearings. Mrs. Gordon: What does that change that to 534 would be change to what? Mayor Ferre: I might point out and I want to do this very infatuately on the record. What we are now doing is up until this point. The Manager has said, "don't press me; but if you press me, here's what we must do. Now, he's made it a very clear statement that beyond the two million dollars which he has come up with up until this time. He sayayou are getting right down to the bone but we can live with it. Now, for you to press beyond that point and I want the Manager to again go on the record. Re is not recommending for these cuts and he's further stated that if we cut in this area. The services of the City of Miami will be imperative. I want you to correct that statement if it isn't so Mr. Manager. Mr. Plummer: In other words, Paul let me ask this, because now --- then I'm confused. These two charts Paul, none of these things will be eliminated if we go with the 8.8 ok? Mr. Andrews: That's right. Mt. Plummer; What I am saying, Mr. Manager that I disagree is in the publications 20 SEP 2 5197f and membership for 1500 under Civil Service. I disagree on the Building Departmer,r. delete one building and zoning supervisor and substitute two positions. No, I agreE with that. In other words, t think that Mr. Mayor out of that list two things have got to give. Mrs. Gordon: What do you mean give, J.L.? Mr. P1uamer: Well two things have got to be - still come out of this budget. We are talking about approximately 33,000 dollars. I think it still should be reduced and I am sorry, the City Manager. Mrs, Gordon: That's more than that, according to what you were saying the first time around. Mr. Plummer: Well, let me figure. Mayor Ferrer Now, Mr. Manager, I want to repeat to you my statement and I want you and whatever statement you make to cover it. I will go along with and I am very grateful to Commissioner Plummer for doing this. If I get a statement from you that this will not in any way incur services. If it does in any way incur services I want you to say so and I want you to state why, because then that's the decision we've got to make. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I think again I will emphasize that I am not disagreeing. I am placing a matter of priority. Mrs. Gordon: Yea, but let's analy;0, what was said the other day when we asked the question, delete six (6) positions, let's say Parks & Rec., those people are not on board, are they? You are not going to go out and fire six(6) people are you? Mr. Andrews: Well, even if they were on board we would ship people. But that's the point. The fact is that - well on any given day - we have as many as 235 to 240 vacancies on any given day. Mrs. Gordon: Yea, so it's really not going to hurt anything then. Mr. Andrews: Well, yes it is. Because if you eliminate six positions, but you are going to find that after 3 or 4 months go by you are still going to have 240 positions vacant. Mr. Reboso: Mr. Mayor, I think the City Manager has done an excellent job and I think we should not reduce at all this 534,800 dollars. So in my opinion we should move to approve the budget, that is without that reduction that he says is going to effect the services of the city. Father Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I just find it difficult to understand how you are going to cut out your membership and all that-- That's how you stay viable during what other people are doing, you know. It's nothing like being there and participating and then I am disturbed that --- about those six positions. I think that we must remember we said to the people that all we have man to sell you is service. Now, and I am disturbed about the Building Department. I told you all. I don't know how many of you ever lived in the County. The heck man, it takes you one , I am sorry, time to get a response. If you were building and I am building now. I know how important it is. Now either you could get some reaction. You need a building permit or you need an inspection. Now, if the Manager doesn't tell me. And M. Manager, I am going to be like the Mayor, I am hoping you are being expedient, because we want the best run city in 1974 and 75 and we want the most efficient city. Now if you can't live with what Mr. Plummer said. I think out of fairness to us you ought to say, look gentlemen, you are getting so near my vein that I may not be able - that blood will spill out there and I won't be there. Do you know what I mean? I am like the Mayor. I want you to re -act. J.L. isn't trying to run you up a tree. J.L. is trying to make sure there isn't but so much fat there, now you better re -act. Mr. Plummer: Father let me tell you something, there ain't nobody on this Commission knows any better where a jugular vein lies than I do. Father Gibson: You believe it: Man, that's your thing. Listen, that's your thing,Man. Mayor Ferro: Gentlemen, I might remind you that this is another kind of a body. Mr. Plummer: I won't comment. 21 SEP 25197p Mr. Andrews: I certainly can re -act to that. I want to remind the Commission that we've gone through a very difficult process. You've had nearly three million dollars in expansion of the pension fund. You've had increase cost of government just as everyone else in the total community has experience increases. We've a►ade every effort not to expand number of people. The basic expansion in people in this program is in Police and Fire. Forty-one positions and you add them up and look at the total number of people in this budget. There is forty-one people in police and fourteen people in fire, that is fifty-four people. The total city budget of three thousand, two hundred some people have only gone up four positions beyond that and there is very good reason for that. We are getting involved in a lot of community programs and these people are necessary, so we'd held down the number of people expansion. There have been other areas of increases and maybe I can't allude to them too quickly without going back over into details. Now, then the second area. We are cutting this so closely and all the things that we are attempting to do to try to find these funds that we could very well be building and a very serious problem for next year. If you exclude this 538,000 or whatever it is , 534,000 dollars. You will have reduced the budget in such a way that the existing taxpayers will receive on a city-wide basis a reduction of approximately .75 mills, that's about 75C per thousand of their assessed value. That's a total tax reduction when they get their tax bill. Some properties obviously are going to go up and some are going to go down, but I can assure you that this is calling all of this much too closely. Mr. Plummer: Well, let me just make my point. My point is that I think we can go beyond a million and one half. Another 90,500 dollars and I think it's something that needs to be done. I break it down to 1500 from Civil Service, actually 43,000 from the City Manager, 14,000 from Budget and 32,300 from the Building Department. Mayor Ferre: Do you except that Mr. Manager or is --- ? Mr. Andrews: Let me go back, I don't understand the forty-three thousand and then a certain amount from the budget. That's 20,700 which you proposed here at 23,000 and Mr. Bergstrom's. Well, I don't have a legal opinion yet. As soon as you brought this up a legal opinion to the City Attorney to get an answer to see if it could Mr. Plummer: Mr. Andrews: we initiated be done. Mr. Plummer: If it's done, you agree to do it? Mr. Andrews: Yes sir. Mr. Plummer: All right sir. Mr. Andrews: But I have to wait upon --- and he has gotten this memorandum just the other day and he won't have Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Andrews, how much would it be, if in fact 500 the half a million for round figures was not deleted, what would the millage be on the portion that we received from the County on the certified side? I am talking about the debt service. Mr. Plummer: 8.8. Mrs. Gordon: 8.8, well how could it be that high? Mayor Ferre: No, no---- it will not be 8.---- I absolutely disagree. Mrs. Gordon: It couldn't be. It only could be a quarter of a mill. Mayor Ferre: Obviously, you have down here 4.88 is the difference and that amounts to 1 million 550 thousand dollars and obviously if you delete from that 534,000 you are roughly talking about 1/3 of that .488 so 1/3 of that ---- Mr. Andrews: Mrs. Gordon: Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews: Mrs. Gordon: Mayor Ferre; In fact it's .168 Mr. Mayor. That's right, I just figured it out. You got to add .168 to 387. Right. So, it's still under 8.5. You end up with 8.567 22 SEP 25197 Mr. Andrews: You'd end up with 8.555. Mayor Perre Ok. Mr, Plummer: So why do you then compromise betweci the operating and the certified? Then none of this would be included in the reduction. Mr. Andrews: That's right. Mayor Perre: Now you realize that we would still have to advertise. Mr. Andrews: Yes sir. We would still have to go through the advertising. Mayor Perre: We would still have to say your taxes are going up. Mr. Plummer: Where do we stand with the employees ratifying? Have they all been ratified? Mr. Andrews: I think some have been ratified. Some are meeting tonight. Is that right? Meeting tonight to go through the process and I think they are optimistic and we are optimistic, I'll say that much. Father Gibson: Tell them we have done the best we know. Mr. Andrews: And you know you were adding to the budget. This budget provides for increase insurance, proper compensation for the employees. Mr. Plummer: No lobbying Paul. Mr. Andrews: Sure I am trying to lob. I am trying to get the Commission ----- Father Gibson: Right, I think the people ought to know that. The people who work with this city is entitled to a fair and equitable way and protection like everybody else. That's what all the other people are doing now. I think we ought to do the right thing by our employees and then you might have some satisified and you will have more satisfied --a Mr. Andrews: And the other thing I can add is that working with the departments you can be sure that we are scrutinize every single vacancy that occurs at the in -hiring level to determine whether that position is really needed particularly as we go about moderniz- ing these departments. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager let me ask this question? You've already concurred on an additional 70,000 of the new seven positions by turning them into fourteen, is that correct? Ok. So that's below the 5888, yes, correct? Well, you said that it was all right there was nothing wrong with it. Mr. Andrews: If you are going to except that item that you are going to reduce that department budget by that much money, yes. But that would be a better way to reduce six cents to eliminate that position. Mr. Plummer: Well, I understood you to say if we put fourteen people on for a half a year we could still save the money. Mr. Andrews: You wouldn't say save it, you mean you would eliminate it. Mr. Plummer: You are hitting me where it's hurting. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Manager I've just got to bring this on the table. I know others think I ought to keep my mouth shut, but isn't it true that we are going to get money from that Community Development Act and that monies can be budgeted in for exactly for what it says for the Community Betterment and that starts January the 1st and you get 2.7 million dollars for the betterment of the community and it has very broad guidelines and you know you are talking now. We have an opportunity to hold the line on the certified mingle. We are getting close and we can't do it because we are going to have extra money coming in and if you put somebody on board to find you some grant money, you can find it, you'll have it. Mr. Andrews; I am very skeptical that you could take those funds and I am almost certain and you can't use them in a way that you could supplant operating funds. Mrs. Gordon: But just like you'd done other you know, you took this and put there and 23 SEP 2 51977 back and forth. Mayor Ferre: I'll tell you if we keep on doing that, you know what we are going to end up doing. That's one day I am not going to be able to tell Claude Pepper and Dante Fascell who represent us in Congress and they've got some scepticism about softie of the Revenue Sharing Funds. We keep using it for operating funds then they are going to say well what's the purpose of all these things that we keep sending --- Mrs. Gordon: Maurice, that's not what I am talking about though. I am not talking about Revenue Sharing Funds. That's why I voted against that motion before because Revenue Sharing Funds are different than the Community Development Act, that's a whole different thing. Mayor Ferre: in the Police Mrs. Gordon: be funded for Until he gets Yea, but you see how are you going to take for example, seven positions Department from the Community Development Act? Well, the way the Manager explained it before. He explained that it would a half a year and you know he doesn't have those people on board right now. them on board you see that's a different story. Father Gibson: Mr. Mayor, let me ask one question? mow, I am ready to make a motion. They cause me to have to take a lot of heat, but that won't be the first time Mr. Ferencik, I want to follow Mr. Plummer's reason. Mr. Plummer wanted to know unequivocable you have any doubt in your mind you say you have that doubt. Ok, we want hold that against you. He wants to know if we took away thirty-two thousand, three hundred dollars from your department. Could you live with that. What is the damaging effect would it lessen our efficency ? Would it cause us not to be operating at the peak of proficiencies we now operate. Mr. Ferencik: If the personnel changes that I suggested to the Manager which are a part of the thirty-two thousand dollars package, in essence what it will mean is eliminating three positions I can tell you that that's not going to mean anybody losing their job. We will pick up two positions at a lower rate of pay. One of these positions is directed to the execution of this new landscaping ordinance where I feel we have to have some added support and if the personnel changes are included along with the thirty-two thousand dollar cut we can live with that figure. Father Gibson: Mr. Andrews, I don't know if I understand what he said. Sir, let me make --- you are talking to a layman, not a landscape- I want to know, I am sure that the reason for presenting this budget to us after you and Mr. Andrews and all of the staff people that talked. You had a compellent reason for saying that you got to have 32,300 dollars. Has that compellent reason changed? I know I could get it that way. Mr. Ferencik: The Building and Zoning Supervisor's position was vacated by a death which has occurred since this budget went into preparation. I had not intended to re -fill that position. I had intended to take the funds that would be used for that position and to transfer that into an engineering position which I feel would strengthen the department. The single factor that you are eliminating out of our budget which conceivably may affect services would be this one building and zoning inspector II position. This also is vacant as a result of a recent resignation because of ill health. This would hamper our operation to some degree. It has to affect our services because that's an area of non- revenue service which is really very heavy source of activity in the department. But I feel that it's reasonable to trade this off for a man whose skill in the area of landscaping where we are going to need additional support as a result of this new ordinance and the this Coconut Grove ----- Father Gibson: When I read in the paper and I don't usually read you know and I don't usually understand what I've read sometimes. When I read in the paper what they said about the people who are working after you have gone home. All I am trying to say is sir, I am troubled world without end. You follow me. Mr. Plummer: I would feel much more comfortable making a motion and letting it die first and then letting them back the motion. Ok? Mr. Mayor I will make a motion at this time that $54,500.00 be deleted beyond 771,000 outlining those positions as deletion of one City Manager---- The other area is the 32,300 from the building department. 1500 from the membership and publications of the Civil Service. Mayor Ferre: All right, before I ask for a second. I would like the Manager to on the record state whether or not he would accept these deletions with the understanding that it will not effect the operations of the city in the sense that it will not mean a reduction of service. That he would accept and recommend these deletions. 24 SEP25197f Mr. Andreas: I can't accept them. Mayor Ferre: I don't need anymore. there a second to the motion? Mrs Gordon: What was the motion? Mayor Ferre: The motion is that we he'd outlined as he has now for the Mrs. Gordon: Mayror Ferre: Mrs. Gordon: Mayor Ferre: Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Andrews: Mrs. Gordon: just want yes or no. Thank you. Now, is I am sorry I vas on the phone. reduce this budget further by $54,500.00 and third time what it is. Now let's get a second. That's all. In other words we will be above the certified mill. Yea ma'am. How much above are we going to be specifically? $500,000.00 above. No, in millage points. In millage about .165. Which logically could come back to us because when they re -estimate the tax assessments it could logically permit us a higher millage rate. Is that correct Mr. Andrews? Mr. Andrews: It could and I want to discuss that with you very briefly after you finish but I don't want to delude the Commission in something that they could eliminate --es Mrs. Gordon: Well, you would have to make that as a point because it's a very valid Mayor Ferre: We are not voting on that now. We have a motion on the floor and I will see if there is a second now. The motion is very clear. Now, is there a second to the motion? Is there a second to Commissioner's Plummer motion? Is there a second to the motion for the last time? Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Manager can you tell me that point that I asked you? How much additional do you believe the certification ---- Mayor Ferret Mrs. Gordon, I will recognize you in a moment, but now I will recognize the Vice Mayor for the ---- I mean Father Gibson for the purpose of making a motion and then if he gets a second I will recognize you on the discussion. Father Gibson: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission. I would like to offer a motion that we accept the recommended budget that the Manger has indicated he could live with and give us the kind of service that the citizens of this community are entitled too. Mayor Ferre: In other words, so we know exactly what we are talking about. This would be a "tillage which would be approximately .165 above the certified millage of 8.387. Mt. Plummer: Well, I would hear it in terms as I hear it before. That would be 8.555 and none of these are included. Mr. Reboso: Not included in the 534,000---- Father Gibson: 8.552 -- Mayor Ferre: As I understand it. All right. That is the motion and it has a second. Vice Mayor seconds it. Is there further discussion on this motion? All right, Plummer. 25 SEP25197f Mr. Piusert Paul, we accept this motion. All of page one is reduced is that correct? Mr. Andrews: Plus the three itema of revenue. Mr. Plummer: in other words, you then on the record are stating that you can live with the reduction in chart one. Mr. Andrews: Yes. Mrs. Gordon: And you are saying in contrast to that you cannot live with all of the items reduced on chart two. You cannot live with that. Ok. Mr. Andrews: I am telling you that if you that at these other areas one way or another you've got to reduce service. Mayor Ferre: All right we have a motion and a second. Is there further discussion or question? This is a very important motion. Mr. Andrews: There is one other point that I want to make to the Commisaion's attention that in the area that is called Special Programs and Accounts. I am very concerned that this Commission as well as all cities in the State of Florida are under 18 months mandatory implementation of 911. We had 25,000 in there for programing and study. You have now cut by 20,000 leaving only 5,000. When we were also discussing that at the end of this year we will have been six months left to implement the mandatory program I questioned. I seriously questioned the polity of doing it. Mrs. Gordon: Well were some in there reduce. Therefore Manager could come J.L. you see that we are not reducing on the items too. Yet there that you yourself said that you would consider exceptable to you to you are not reducing that and it's logical that it's necessary the to us and say we have to switch from this fund to that fund. Mayor Perre: That's a very good point and that's exactly why I didn't want to reduce the budget any further. and let it be. Even though the Manager can't make this statement. I can make this statement and he won't agree with it, but I'll make it anyway that the fact that we have left 534 thousand 800 in the budget gives him flexibility if needed in the future for him to come back to this Commission and say we really have to go through with the problem 911 and therefore I would like to put back the $20,000 back in again and we can get it by transferring from the Parks and Recreation Department since we didn't fill six positions but only filled three. We have now got the 20,000 to do that and that's exactly what I mean about the bone and the jugular vein and I know what kind of jugular vein I am talking about. I am telling you as far as I've been involved with the City of Miami that latitude has been there and used abundantly. Mr. Plummer: I can tell you that you are looking conceivably Mr. Mayor next year that this program is going to cost this city approximately $300,000.00 and it's mandatory. You got no leeway. Mr. Andrews: And I want to remind the Commission the only reason the $25,000.00 was there was just for studies and so forth have nothing really to do with them. Mayor Ferre: And I am sure at the point that you think there's essential you'll come back to us and we'll have to do. I know that. Mrs. Gordon: Can I ask you a question now? Is there enought leeway for you now to be able to hire a grantsmen? Mr. Andrews: What we are going to look at is to see if we can hire such a grantsmen on the basis that grants we receive a portion of it's administrative cost would be born through all the various grants. Mrs. Gordon: Yea, have you got that leeway now? Will you being doing that ? Mr. Andrews: Yes and it doesn't have to reflect that. Mre. Gordon: No. But you intend to this. Thank you. Mayor Ferre: These are the latitudes that these budgets permit of the administration and we have to recognise that, Mre. Gordon: Do you need a motion on that? Mayor Ferre: No we already have a motion and a second. Now is there further di.cuesion on the notion as presented, if not ,now this is a key motion on voting for the :pillage since this budget. All right. Call the roll. The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 74-1048 A MOTION OF THE CITY COMMISSION ACCEPTING THE PROPOSED 1974-75 FISCAL BUDGET AS RECOMMENDED BY THE CITY MANAGER, ENABLING THE CITY TO CONTINUE RENDERING PROPER SERVICES; .165 ABOVE THE CERTIFIED MILLAGE AND SETTING A 1974-75 MILLAGE OF APPROXIMATE- LY 8.552 PLUS DEBT SERVICE. Upon being seconded by Vice Mayor Reboso, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer Commissioner Rose Gordon Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson Vice Mayor Manolo Reboso Mayor Maurice A. Ferre NOES: None. The following comments were made prior to the voting of the adoption of the motion. Mrs. Gordon: I am going to vote yea and I am going to predicate my yes vote so that the records reflect it. That the certified millage rate logically would be adjusted after the tax assessments are adjusted and would probably fall in line with what we are doing today. Mayor Ferre: For the record I would like to state that I think that in all good conscience we have worked diligently and strived to reduce this budget as much as we possibly could. I have stated I am elected to go beyond the point where the Manager has recommended for obvious reasons. The obvious reasons are that I am elected to see anything that would severely or seriously impair or reduce the ability for this city to render the type of services that the people of Miami expect from it. I think on the other hand that they also expect fiscal reasonableness and the fiscal belt tightening and fiscal conservatism . I think we've achieved that by reducing the proposed original budget by 21/4 million dollars beyond the Manager's original recommendation and on that basis I vote yes. Mr. Andrews: One quick matter now Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission. Mayor Ferre: We got troubles. We put this - we got to vote to advertise.All right will somebody make such a motion. Under State law we have to advertise that we will be increasing ---- Mr. Plummer: So you don't need a motion. We just follow the law. Mr.. Andrews: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission. There is so many adjustments here now as a result of all of this. We are going to have to take time and go through the whole appropriation ordinance very carefully and the millage ordinance and I'll have to bring them to you on Friday morning and have you adopt them first thing Friday morning. And then I have one more matter, a serious matter in this area I must discuss with the Commission and I ask you to give me some leeway and the City Attorney some leeway and I'll explain what that is after you've adopted this resolution. Mr. Plummer: What resolution? Mr. Andrews; Well you are going to have a resolution to go ahead with the advertising. Mayor Terre: Do we have to do that legally now? 27 SEP 25197f Mt. Andrtnon: Yes 1 retef end thret you adopt ft, at least a motion. Mayor I rre: t think we've got to do It and 1 don't think that we need to have -- 1 understand the iMpleirentation. But we --.- we've got to stand up on these thinge and we've done what we've done and let the wo.id know that. I think that we stand on the side of the angels on this. Mr.Andrews: You've reduced taxes, you've employees Mayor Ferre: Who wants to make the motion? Father Gibson: Mayor Ferre: roll please. I move to advertise . I think we ought to tell the world. Seconded the motion by the Vice Mayor. Further discussion call the The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Gibson, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 74-1049 A MOTION OF THE CITY COMMISSION DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO INITIATE NECESSARY ACTION TO CAUSE ADVERTISEMENT TO BE PLACED IN LOCAL PAPERS FOR NOTICE OF PROPOSED TAX INCREASE; PROVIDING FOR FUTURE PUBLIC HRARINGS. Upon being seconded by Vice Mayor Reboso, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer Commissioner Rose Gordon Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson Vice Mayor Manolo Reboso Mayor Maurice A. Ferre NOES: None. Mayor Ferre: Thereupon voting yes, would like to caution the Manager and I really do not think that this type of ----- I think that's very bad for us to say City of Miami proposes to reduce your property taxes and then right under it it says "Notice of Tax Increase". That is just going to confuse the taxpayer and it's just not worth it. And let's just do what the law says that we have to --- Mr. Andrews: I understand. I was just trying to incourage the Commission to go ahead and make it together. Mayor Ferre: Well we have plenty of courage don't worry. Mr. Andrews: And now, Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission and Mrs. Gordon, particularly to address the question that you were asking. The City Attorney and I need some leeway and 1 want you to give us the authority to do something and I must explain this problem. And 1 have been on the telephone with the tax assessor and with the County Attorney p.r:;onal- ly just before coming to this meeting. Let's make an assumption that the certified millage that's furnished to us by the tax assessor is fixed when we adopt the --- at the time 'at adopt the millage ordinance this coming Friday. And he will go ahead and begin inccrpora.:- ing that millage which you will adopt to send out to the property owners and taxpayers in the city. In the meantime while he is getting ready to do that he may discover that we are going to have a reduction in the tax base. When we have a reduction in the tax base there are certain circumstances which permit him to raise the certified millage to a slightly higher level by the same amount. This is Mrs. Gordon what you were trying to bring out. That the amount that the tax base is reduced. However, we would have to send someone to Tallahassee to the Department of Revenue to get them to approve this sli^ht increase over the certification if it's less than 5% and will protect the city in the event that there tax base reduction. We will be able to take advantage of that increase in the certification. Mrs. Gordon: In other words we won't be really going above certified level if that is the case and that's what I mentioned before? SEP 2 5197f Mr. Andrews: It could mean several hundred thousand dollars. Well, we want authorize from you to go ahead and pursue this and take advantage of it. Mrs. Gordon: You want a motion. I move it. Mayor Ferre: Is there a motion? There is a second. Further discussion call the roll. The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Gordon, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 74-1050 A MOTION OF THE CITY COMMISSION GRANTING AUTHORITY TO THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THE CITY MANAGER TO TAKE NECESSARY ACTION TO ADJUST THE CERTIFIED MILLAGE BASED UPON A POSSIBLE REDUCTION IN THE TAX BASE AND GRANTING AUTHORITY TO OBTAIN NECESSARY PERMISSION FROM TALLAHASSEE TO MAKE NEC- ESSARY MILLAGE ADJUSTMENTS. Upon being seconded by Commissioner Gibson, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: Commissioner J.L. Plummer Commissioner Rose Gordon Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson Vice Mayor Manolo Reboso Mayor Maurice A. Ferre NOES: None. Mr. Plummer: Just a motion as I did before that we place on the ballot. Mr. Lloyd: City Attorney reads into the record the emergency ordinances which is later adopted in the meeting. 20 SE P 2 5197. tit AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING THE ISSUANCE OF AN AMOUNT NOT EXCEEDING $10,000,000.00 OF PUBLIC ISLAND PARK AND RECREATIONAL PACILiT'Y BONDS OF THE CITY OP MIAMI FOR THE PURPOSE OP }HYING THE COST OF ACQUIRING CONSTRUCTING AND DEVELOP- ING A PUBLIC ISLAND PARK AND RECREATIONAL FAC- ILITY IN THE CITY OF MAIMI; PROVIDING FOR BONDS OP $5,000, EACH BEARING INTEREST NOT EXCEEDING 71% PER ANNUM; PROVIDING FOR A SPECIAL TAX; PROVIDING FOR SUBMISSION TO ELECTORS AT THE NOVEMBER 5, 1974 ELECTION; REQUESTING TO BE PLACED ON THE BALLOT BY SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS; PROVIDING FOR NOTICE BY PUBLICATION; CONTAINING A SEVERABILITY CLAUSE; PROVIDING THAT THIS ORDINANCE SHALL BE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UPON ITS PASSAGE AND DISPENSING WITH THE REQUIREMENT OF READING THIS ORDINANCE ON TWO SEPARATE DAYS BY A VOTE OF NOT LESS THAN FOUR -FIFTHS OF THE COMMISSION. Was introduced by Commissioner Plummer and seconded by Commissioner Gibson, for adoption as an emergency measure and dispensing with the requirement of reading same on two separate days, which was agreed to by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Rose Gordon Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson Vice Mayor Manolo Reboso Mayor Maurice A. Ferre NOES: None. Whereupon the Commission on motion of Commissioner Plummer and seconded by Commissioner Gibson, adopted said ordinance by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Rose Gordon Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson Vice MayorManolo Reboso Mayor Maurice A. Ferre NOES: None. SAID ORDINANCE WAS DESIGNATED ORDINANCE NO. 8302 The City Attorney read the ordinance into the public record and announced that copies were available to the members of the City Commis- sion and to the public. 30 SEP 25197f AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED,. AN ORDINANCE SETTING FORTH THE PROPOSED yESTION FOR THE SPECIAL BOND ELECTION TO BE HELD NOVEMBER 5, 1974; PROVIDING FOR NOTICE OF SAME AND DISPENSING WITH THE READING OF THIS ORDINANCE ON TWO SEPARATE DAYS BY A VOTE OF NOT LESS THAN FOUR -FIFTHS OF THE COMMISSION. Was introduced by Commissioner Plummer and seconded by Commissioner Gordon, for adoption as an emergency measure and dispensing with the requirement of reading same on two separate days, which was agreed to by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Rose Gordon Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson Vice Mayor Manolo Reboso Mayor Maurice A. Ferre NOES: None. Whereupon the Commission on seconded by Commissioner Gordon, vote: AYES: Commissioner J.L. motion of Commissioner Plummer and adopted said ordinance by the following Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Rose Gordon Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson Vice Mayor Manolo Reboso Mayor Maurice A. Ferre NOES: None. SAID ORDINANCE WAS DESIGNATED ORDINANCE NO. 8303 The City Attorney read the ordinance into the public record and announced that copies were available to the members of the City Commis- sion and to the public. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to come before the City Commission, on motion duly made and seconded, the meeting was adjourned at: 4:45 O'Clock P. M. ATTEST: H. D. SOUTHERN City Clerk RALPH G. ONGIE Assistant City Clerk MAURICE A. FERRE Mayor 011 SEP 25i974