HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1974-09-11 Minutes:COMMSU»
M.INUTES
OF MEETING HELD ON SEP 111974 - . BUDGET HEARING # 1
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
CITY HALL
H, D. SOUTHERN
CITY CLERK
RALPH G. ONGIE
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
•
t
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
ITEM NO,
SUBJECT
ORDINANCE OR
RESOLUTION NO.
PAGE NO.
DECLARE POLICY -FUNDS EXCEEDING 2 MILLION
DOLLARS UNDER SALARY FUNDING IN FEDERAL
REVENUE SHARING PORTION OF CITY MANAGER'S
BUDGET ESTIMATE AND ITEM 6/7 POLICE EXPANSION
BE FUNDED FROM REGULAR BUDGET FUNDS AND NOT
FROM FEDERAL REVENUE SHARING
APPROVE CITY PHYSICIANS BUDGET FOR
FISCAL YEAR 1974-75
REQUEST NEGOTIATION WITH METRO DADE COUNTY
TO RESOLVE DISCREPANCIES BETWEEN
$1,200,000 WHICH THE COUNTY OWES THE CITY
IN CONNECTION WITH TRANSFER OF THE PORT TO
DADE COUNTY AND THE TOLLS WHICH THE: COUNTY
CHARGES THE CITY ON THE RICKENBACKER CAUSE-
WAY.
M-74-694
M-74-695
M-74-696
20
26
65
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
*******
On the llth day of 'September, 1974 the City Commission of
Miami, Florida met at its regular meeting place at City Hall in
said City in special session to consider the proposed appro-
priation ordinance for the City of Miami for the fiscal year
1974-1975.
The meeting was called to order at 9:10 O'Clock A.M. by
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre with the following members of the Com-
mission present:
Also present:
Commissioner J.L. Plummer
Commissioner Rose Gordon
Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
P.W. Andrews, City Manager
A. R. Crouch, Asst. City Manager
John S. Lloyd, City Attorney
H.D. Southern, City Clerk
Ralph G. Ongie, Asst. City Clerk
An invocation was delivered by Reverend Gibs) n who then
led those present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag.
Mayor Ferre: Good morning, Mr. Andrews, good morning. I would
hope that my fellow Commissioners, that we could today do a lot
of listening. Hopefully, I'm sure we will have an opportunity
to do a lot of talking and I'm sure Mr. Andrews knows, and is
ready for us to do a lot of talking. But I think it might be
appropriate at this time to listen. I'm not, of course, anybody
has a right to speak on this Commission - I'm just expressing
a wish. I hope that it goes that way.
Mr. Plummer:
Mr. Mayor...
Rev. Gibson: That would be the dayl
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I will be happy to comply with your
request and wish.
Mayor Ferre: I wasn't looking at you alone, Plummer.
Mr. Plummer: I know you were. But I think in all fairness to
the Manager I once again am going to restate my position and I
think my position is going to make, if my position prevails, a
tremendous difference in this budget and based on what I have
said before, quite conceivably will send the Manager back to
his books. So I will comply with which ever way you wish to
go. If you want to let him make his presentation first is
fine with me.
Mrs. Gordon: I can't hear you, can you speak louder?
Mr. Plummer: That's the first time I have ever been accused of
speaking too low. Rose, what I'm saying is that my position on
the budget was quite clear, or I thought it was, and I am still
more than adamant on my position. I'll be more than glad to
listen to the Manager first but I believe if my proposal prevails
SEP. 11 1)74
s •
that the Manager is going to have some very serious changes
in this budget. So t will be'glad to do, Mr. Mayor, whatever
you want. I will be a good listener and with the possibility
of everything he has said being thrown out the window. So you
Can do what you want.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, I would say that under the circum-
stances we're not talking about a matter of serious intent,
and I think perhaps you might be right that if it is going to
be the will of this Commission to set guidelines on the Manager
as to millage cap, if you will, which is really what it is
going to come down to; that's where I would imagine you're
going to end up. If we get going in that direction perhaps it
might be important to take that sense, the sense of this body
first because if what you say is the will of the majority of
this Commission then I think undoubtedly what we will be doing
for the rest of the day might be meaningless, or half of it,
or part of it would be meaningless.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Plumper... He made a statement about his
position, but I think for the record and all of the rest of
the people here, state your position.
Mayor Ferre: Father, you wanted to say, something?
Rev. Gibson: No, Mr. Mayor, I don't think we ought to do
that. I think we ought to hear the Manager. Here is a man
who has worked several hours and weeks and months and we can
not intelligently, at least I can't, intelligently vote against
a budget unless I hear it and until such time as the Manager
justifies. If he convinces me that I must do even that which
is not popular I'm prepared to do it and I think we ought to
hear it.
Mayor Ferre: Father, I hear you loud and clear and I get
your point.
Mrs. Gordon: Both ideas are good, let's hear Mr. Plummner's
statement ....
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, Rose. I hear you loud and clear, Father
but what I think Plummer is saying is there is no use talking
aho ut the body of the house and how many stories and doors and
windows we're going to have if we don't get the foundations, if
we don't decide what size foundations we're going to have and
I think what he is basically saying is that before we get into
talking about the various matters that affect the house we'd
better establish the base of it because for example; if we all
come to an agreement here that as a matter of philosophy ex-
cluding what this document says, as a matter of philosophy, if
we say to a group of people that these are the perimeters and
the guidelines by which they must be guided then there is no
use telling an architect to go and desigr a house for me unless
you tell him: I want the house to be three stories high or I
want the building to have three stories. Basically, what he
is saying is that he wants to test the sense of this Commis-
sion on those basic guidelines beyond what this document may
or may not say. Now it may be the sense of this Commission
after he gets through with his statement and if we get to a
vote on it that he doesn't have the majority and that the
majority that will prevail is - Let's go through the budget
procedure and that's the time to do it.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, if I do not have a house but I know
--my needs I tell my architect, I do this for the church, I tell
S E P 11 1974
• •
the architect wh&t I have, what My needs are. 90 then he
designee a house accordingly. If I have a house and I say to,
and I want to add to it and in this instance, you had a budget,
you had a payroll, you had a structure; what you're telling me
is say now whether I like what I had last year or whether I like
what I have this year, I must then pare down. But I'm going
to follow your recommendation. Let's hear his position and then
I'm prepared to vote. I'm always saying debate is beautiful
but the vote is really what counts.
Mayor Ferre: Right on. Now before Commissioner Plummer makes
his statement, it is not only what we want and what we need but
what we've got the money to do and I think that is what he wants
to talk about. Go ahead. You've got the floor, Mr. Plummer.
Mr. Plumper: I always enjoy people telling me what I mean.
Mr. Mayor, very simply, the radical change I call your attention
to the very last page of the book. I won't say that it intent-
ionally appears on the last page, but it does. Mr. Mayor, this
Commies on went on record at the time that we approved the pay
raises of equalization known as the Yaeger Plan. This Commis-
sion was quite clear. It's intent was quite clear that in fact
we did not like the idea at the time that these monies were be-
ing paid from what I will refer to in the future as temporary
funds, Federal Revenue Sharing. Mr. Reese was very clear in
his presentation that this kplan, if implemented would be on a
basis of the first year, $3,000,000 from Federal Revenue Shar-
ing, the second year $2,000,000 and the thire year $1,000,000
and the fourth year, as his comments were would be picked up
by normal city services, increase in construction, and the
likes. We saw when the Manager published, some 6 months ago,
5 months ago, he proposed to put $5,500,000 of pay in Federal
Revenue Sharing. I made a committment as well as what I felt
the Manager made a aounittment that this year $2,000,000 would
come from Federal Revenue Sharing. I stand by my committment
and I expect the Manager to stand by his or his predecessor's
committment. I will get into other areas but I think this is
major within itself that I think that everything from Federal
Revenue Sharing should be on a basis that it is paid for within
the year of the funding and should be over with; such as major
and capital improvements. So Mr. Mayor, I think that this
within itself, and Father Gibson who spoke against it, I think
that it is just a matter of transferring funds back where they
appropriately belong and I tell you again that I '11 only live
up to my committment of $2,000,000 in this year from Federal
Revenue Sharing and I expect the Manager and his office to do
likewise. I will dwell at a later time into two other areas
but at this time I think that this $6,000,000 would make a
major change in this budget. So that is what my feeling is.
The other two areas is in the Police Expansion Program which
appears on page 7, item #6 which is about 95% salaries. The
Fire Department, item #7 which is 95% salaries. Father, let
me tell you what my concern is. Everything that we have read
all the way, and the President has shown us with the stroke of
one pen what can happen. Three days ago I read the headlines
of the Miami Daily News a lot different than what was printed
because I saw where Gerald Ford, what he did to the mass transit
funds, reducing them with the stroke of one pen from 25 billion
dollars to 11 billion dollars; the headlines that I read said
very simply mass transit is almost dead in Dade County. Now
I'm saying to you that the talk we have heard from our repre-
sentative, Mark Israel - don't bank on Federal funds. Even
if the program goes as the program was proposed of a five year
program, you've got two more years. Now all I'm saying, Gerald
Ford in the same voice, is ready to cut out 40,000 Federal
•
employeese hold raiaea froti October to January 1, and maybe
he can be complimented for eaving $700,000,000 but a man that
tells me that he is opposed to wage control and salary control
and turns right around and does that kind of action, I can't
have any faith in. So all I'm saying to you is - I expect to
live up to my cb maittment of $2, 000, 000 from Federal Revenue
this year, I expect the administration to do likewise and next
year I will live up to my committinent of $1,000,000 from Federal
Revenue Sharing. This, without question is the most dynamite
funding that I think can be done. I didn't like it from the
beginning, I don't like it now but I will live up to my commit-
ment.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor, and members of the Commission, I
recognize that every effort has been made both by the City
Commission, past City Manager and myself to eliminate wage
costs from the Federal Revenue Sharing Fund that would be con-
tinuing obligations in the event that we ended the 5 year trust
period and there was no renewal of Federal Revenue Sharing Funds,
that that would be a very awkward position for the City and it
would have been possible to reduce the expenditure for the 10%
cost of salary adjustment below the 2634 if we had not gotten
into a very complicated situation as far as funding the Pension
Budget. There is a significant increase. The increase in the
Pension Budget exceeds the total amount of funds that are stated
in this item *13. No one really anticipated this. There was
no way of anticipating that until we received our actuarial
study. I'm just pointing out one major area that we had to
cope with and it would be fine to present to the Commission a
budget funded that way but that was not possible. There are
other areas that can be transferred to the Federal Revenue
Sharing Funds that you then would have to make a decision as
far as the policy is concerned and I caa give you some examples
of that. We have free uses of our public facilities. We have
expenditures that we're incurring for the Marine Stadium and
the baseball stadium that are tax dollars, that if you choose
to revise the way we're operating those facilities and put
limited uses on those then we can transfer this cost out of
the Federal Revenue Sharing and transfer those operations to
the Federal Revenue Sharing Budget. In the event the Federal
Revenue Sharing Budget is terminated in two years then you can
make a decision as to what you want to do with the Marine Stad-
ium and the baseball stadium and facilities such as that. Now
there are other things that I can present in a detailed list
that the Commission can arrive at a basic policy, and I'll give
you my recommendations, if you wish but that was an area I
hoped we would not get into because it means some major changes
in the way we're operating our City Government.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Andrews, I don't think; maybe I
might be wrong, that anyone knows any more about this pension
than I do and I can't concur with your remarks that maybe you
didn't know exactly but you had a damned good idea. Mr. Mayor,
let me clear up because I've made my point but let me clear up
one other point just so there is no misunderstanding. What I'm
saying, the point I wish to make on the Police Expansion Pro-
gram and on the Fire Department, I think these two programs are
too important to take a chance of not having any funding pos-
sibly next year or the year after. If I've got to loose some-
thing don't let me loose employees. If I've got to loose a
part of a re -doing of a stadium, loose it but don't let me
loose this rescue squad and don't let me loose this Police
Expansion Program. I think they're both very vital but they're
4 $ F P 1 1 1474
• •
both 90 to 95% salaries. All I'm saying is in so many words
is that if we loose it, and I'm not looking to two years. Con-
ceivably, everything I read tells the we could be out of Federal
Revenue Sharing or even seriously cut which is even worse, in
one year. Let me loose something that is not pertinent. Don't
let me loose that fifth rescue, don't let me loose that Police
Expansion Program. These are vital. Put them where they be-
long in the other part of the budget.
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you a question, Mr. Plummer. Your
concern, as I understand it, is one of previous committment
and of philosophy because that is really the only word you can
apply to it. It is not, and I'm not implying that you're not
practical because I know you are, I've seen it before. I'm
saying it's not at this time a practical application to the
distribution of funds. What you're trying to do is you're
trying to make the blow easier when it comes or to put it in
a more positive way - what you're trying to say is we ought •:o
be better prepared for the moment of decision when it comes
whether it is a year or two or three years away. But it really
in effect, for this coming budget year, when you get down to
the nitty gritty and you cut through right down to the final
line, it is a philosophical question because the funds are
there and it is just a question of how you distribute it and
the pertinent decisions that it forces you to make vis-a-vis
other departments and other activities of the City of Miami.
That's where we're at as I understand. It's not an easy thing...
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let me say this now. You know yes,
you're right. It is a philosophy, it is a committment. But
I thihk I said before I didn't like it at the time that I made
the committment. I didn't like it then, I don't like it now
but it was the only way that we could give these employees
the right of equalization with private industry. Now I'm say-
ing to you is that I thought that it was so important that I
think it should be built into the budget now not when the pos-
sibility of this thing fails.
Rev. Gibson: J.L., let me ask... Maybe I didn't understand.
Are we talking about where we're going to fund one agency
from over and against another? Look, we aren't different
there. I agree with you. If I have to,choose the Police
Department ever and against the Marine Stadium I'm going to
choose the Police Department. I hope we aren't...
Mayor Ferre: He's talking about, and stop me now because I
have, as you say, a habit of paraphrasing things; but I have
to do that for myself so I can understand it in my terms. So
forgive me for that.? What you're talking about is mechanics.
,What he's talking about is a mechanical redistribution as to
what pocket you're going to pay the ice cream for and what pocket
you're going to pay the hamburger from.
Mr. Plummer: Exactly.
Rev. Gibson: Ok. I understand. If that's what you're saying
we have no problem. Let's proceed, man.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute, Father, please. I said that was
my first presentation of philosophy. Now Father, I've got a
whole book full of where cuts are going to occur. That's a
different story. I'm not getting into that now, I'll get into
that later. I want to lay, as the Mayor said, the foundation
properly. Then we'll start cutting on the house.
5 SEP111974
•
Rev. Gibsbf: Make a motion, my brother, I'm with you.
Mr, Plummer: 1 make a motion, Mr. Mayor at this title; excuse
me, go ahead Paul.
Mr. Andrews: May 1 just add a comment because you certainly
believe in the year that I've been the City Manager that I've
attempted to work with the Commission and try to bring about
the policies and the individual wishes of the Commission but
you're faced with a fundamental problem here that you must
understand and before you get into a policy decision I'd like
to explain to you. First of all, the basic thrust of the Feder-
al Revenue Sharing Funds was to relieve taxes. Ok? That's
one of the principal reasons for the Federal Revenue Sharing
Funds. You look at all of the forms and the law and you read
it and even on the reporting forms they raise five individual
questions as to how the programs that are carried out under
Federal Revenue Sharing Funds, how that relieved munic.pal taxes.
That is the first thing. ,The second thing is that if we take
our total budget for this coming year and we eliminate debt
service which is ten and a half million dollars we're down to
roughly a $73,000,000 budget. Of that $73,000,000 budget
65 point something million dollars is for salaries. That
represents 90.5% of all our costs for salaries so if you...
Well all employee costs, excuse me. All employee costs, you're
correct - 90.5%. So if you talk about switching from the
basic budget to the Federal Revenue Sharing you can't just
talk in terms of switching capital outlay items for typewriters
and vehicles. You're goiig to have to talk about functions
switched to the revenue which you plan, if we should not have
Federal Revenue Sharing in another two years or so and that's
cut off as Commissioner Plummer is pointing out, with the
sweep of the President's pen then you're gcing to have to look
at basic functions in this city that you will be will ng to
struggle with when that occurs.
Mayor Ferre: You see what J.L. is saying is let's face the
issue right now. Now let me express my opinion on this thing,
J.L. I've been thinking a lot about this last night, yesterday
I thought a lot about it. Iie and I talked briefly about it
yesterday and I've been thinking a lot about this. You know
I think from what I've been able to see in talk, and I'm a
novice at this thing of being Mayor you know - well, it is the
truth, I'm just starting out and learning what this is all
about, and you know in these different trips that I've taken to
these conventions and Mayor's meetings and so on, you know I
come back and I worry about theCity of Miami's future but you
know something? Every other city in this country is bankrupt.
* go around and talk to all of these characters and they don't
have enough money to do this and the Mayor of Cleveland has
this problem and the Mayor Gibson of Newark has all kinds of
problems. It is just unbelievable. And Kevin White up in
Boston doesn't have enough money to do this thing and Abe Beam
is just out of his mind and this fellow•in ;Jos Angeles who's
terrific, Mayor Bradley, has all kinds of problems and when
you get down to it and you know whether it is over a cup of
coffee or beer - when you get down to it, you know whatit is?
It is money. That's the missing thing that all of these govern-
mental agencies and units have. Now obviously there isn't
enough money in this country to solve all our problems and I
don't mean to make a big philosophical speech but just two
sentences. What it really comes down to is that when this
country was founded two hundred years ago it was a rural country
and the structure of this country is a Federal union and the
flows of the monies go through that Federal union because that
b
is the seuroe of the funding and that's also where it is ex.-
pended and even as good a representative as Claude Pepper is,
when you talk to Claude Pepper, world you believe that deep
down inside he is against Revenue Sharing? Deeply against it.
He doesn't think that thii is where that money should be spent.
Now without getting into the argument as to whether he is right
or whether he is wrong here's a man who has been categorized as
a liberal all his life who certainly is an urban man worried
about our urban problems and he doesn't like Revenue 'haring.
And I'm not criticizing him, I'm just making a statment of what
I think is the way this thing is going. Now our problem is
that we don't have the physical ability, we can't tax the home
anymore, we can't tax the home anymore and the problem is we
don't have the money to do our job with the Police Department
and the Fire Department and Garbage and '!'rash pickup and Zon-
ing and Planning, and all; the functions that the City of Miami
has left in its powers. We simply do not have the physical
ability to on our own survive that. Now the conclusion then: is
the City of Miami has a short life left because the moment
Federal Funding is gone the City of Muni will be gone. But
my friends, it doesn't matter what we do today or what we do
tomorrow or what we do next year; the fact is that we do not
have sufficient revenue sources within our own powers to sur-
vive. But neither does Metro. Don't you see? And that is the
point - that the passing, of the problem from one jurisdiction
to another does not solve the provlem because the problem is
money and if President Ford or President whoever is going to
be there that's going to sign this thing with a pen strikes
out revenue sharing and this funding of cities then the federal
government is go ng to have to come in here and run the City of
Miami and run Metro and run Cleveland, and run Boston and 1,os
Angeles, and Toledo,Ohio - and it's not going to happen. So
the more I think of this the more I conclude that this is one
of these - it may be an albatross around this country's neck,
it may be something that we started and we don't like like
Social Security, the way that Social Security is going but you
think about it. Everybody says Social Security is going to be
bankrupt. Social Security is going to be abandoned - No wayl
It just cannot be done. Now what we could have is a substitute
for it, an alternate to it but there is no way that something
like Social Security can be abandoned o"er night. So it is a
matter of philosophy and it is my opinion that the Federal
Government and President cannot, by the stroke of a pen elim-
inate the responsibility which somebody including the congress
made up of a hundred men placed upon themselves. I think that
we will be, as a nation, either plagued by it or saved by it.
I don't think that it is eminently forthcoming - I could be
wrong, we could go into a depression and that could change
everything but I don't think we're going to_go into a depress-
ion and I don't think it is going to be different. We're into
an inflationary cycle that's not going to stop; we're in it,
we're going to continue in it and if we go into deep recessions
when we come out we'll be right back in inflation and there is
just no way as long as you have deficit spending and all these
problems that are our way of life, we're going to be stuck with
this and I think that.. J.L., I don't mind going with your
proposal to this extent, that you say you want to reshuffle
$600,000. I'll go with that. I'm talking about me, myself
all alone, one vote.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute. me just...
Mayor Ferre: Let me finish. I'm almost finished in my state-
ment. I'll go with you on that $634,000 but I want to say that
..- I don't think that this is the time to face the issue of revenue
7 SEP 11 1974
sharing because it's not here yet. Now it could be here, I
don't think it will be here in a year. It could be here in
two years and I'm pretty certain that we're not going to have
that problem for this budget year. We could be faced with it
for the next budget year but I think these funds will be allo-
cated, reserved and there won't be any problems with them
Mr. Plummer: Two short points, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: And I think we're either faced with this next
year or in the future. Ok.
Mr. Plummer: Two short,points. What I am trying to do today
is to forestall the banli.ruptcy of this City conceivably if
federal funds go. #2, Mr. Mayor, I cannot concur with your
reasoning. Tell the people that are not going to be the recip-
ients of that 14 billion dollars that federal government is
going to come down and give them their mass transit because it
is gone.
Mayor Ferre: You see, mass transit is a need but it is not an
indispensible need for daily functioning. See? But Police
protection is and Fire protection is. This City cannot survive
without a Police Department or a Fire Department and somebody
has to pick up garbage and trash. So these are basic municipal
functions that we can not do without. Now the other is a matter
of philosophy, do we want more roads or do we want more mass
transit. We don't want more roads, we want a rapid transit
system. But see, that's something in the future and that's a
completely different matter from... The fact is that out of
the $73,000,000, how much do we get from the homeowner?
Mr. Plummer: 26%.
Mr. Andrews: 36 million do'le.rs of the total 85.
Mayor Ferre: How much?
Mr. Andrews: $36,000,000 of the 85
Mayor Ferre: That's somewhat more than a third. Ok. Where
does the rest of it come from, Mr. Andrews?
Mr. Andrews:
Mayor Ferre:
I'm going to go into that....
No, in three sentences, real...
Mr. Andrews: All right,
business licenses, fides
bonds and then there are
to that.
State and federal revenue
and forfitures, utilities
service fees of all kinds
sharing,
service tax,
that add up
Mayor Ferre: How much comes from revenue sharing?
Mr. Andrews: Eight and a half million dollars.
Mayor Ferre: Which is 10% of the total budget and more than
that of the non -fundable debt budget. That's eight out of 73.
Mr. Andrews: But there is a mixture here. The 8.8 million
dollars of federal revenue sharing funds is not all committed
to the operation of the $85,000,000. Only a portion of it is,
about 6.5 or 7 million....
Mx. Plummer: I.et me ask a question "Bich I want to draw a
•
is S E P 11 1974
picture for you. Mr. Andrew, they put the 10 mil]. rap on us
and turned around and gave us this big bonus baby called state
revenue sharing. Mow much worse off were we?
Mr. Andrews: If you had the flexibility and you were able to
carry all of the millage t could guarantee you that we would
not have to depend one cent on federal revenue sharing funds.
Mr. Plummer: Answer my question. When the state imposed upon
us the 10 mill cap in what we were raising from state revenues
and everything else and they came down the pipe with state
revenue sharing your figure, if I remember correctly, we came
out about two and a half million dollars worse off.
Mr. Andrews: That's right. That was the second. The first
year we were about a million and a half, the second hear two
and a half million and at the present time with the millage
that we're now levying because the way the law operates is prob-
ably closer to seven and a half million dollars.
Mr. Plummer: Worse off. See, this is what I'm trying to say
to you. Now, let me get down so I can make a motion. To the
rest of the members of the Commission, I'll do it in two motions
or I'll do it in one.Using the same philosophy and the same
thinking, do you concur with me on the expansion program and
the rescue that that should be put into the regular budget as
I feel very strongly about?
Mrs. Gordon: An answer that needs to be received, and that is
will that increase the millage to the property owner?
Mr. Plummer: No.
Mrs. Gordon:
sharing?
If we did that, removed it from the revenue
Mr. Andrews: No, as I understand, and let me now say what I
think kCommissioner Plummer is trying to achieve so that I
understand it clearly. That is that he wants for me to go
back and review the entire budget and make transfers from the
basic budget in the amount that he's proposing to eliminate
from the federal revenue sharing which is the additional six
hundred thousand dollars in salaries and then the police expan-
sion program and the Fire Department Rescue which is another
$700,000 and transfer from the operating budget those kinds of
functions over which the City would hopefully you wouldn't
have to do this, but the City Commission would make policy as
to how we would treat those functions in the future.
Mrs. Gordon: I have questions
from you, and that's why I was
cussion from you before we had
before motions. I want to know
hoping we would have some dis-
any mdions to act upon.
Mr. Plummer: I would be glad to wait.
Mrs. Gordon: All right. I appreciate it, J.L. One of my
questions is the memorandum that you sent to us first which
reflected a total millage of 11.499 and a more recent memor-
andum from you which changed that to 11.672 which means some-
thing tame. That means more taxes to the property owner and
in contrast to what I had hoped and anticipated that you would
find a way of reducing that you have kind of come back from the
opposite direction.
Mr. Andrews: I'm afraid I've created inadvertently a very
SEP 111974
•
complex situation which I will try to explain to the co rtis�
lion.
Mayor Ferre: Before we get into all of this, Paul. if you
were to eliminate the growth by new buildings and of the City
of Miami's tax roll and you were to distribute the burden on
an average basis, in other words, it doesn't work out equally
for homeowners or commercial properties. and so on, we can't
get into distinguishing the difference. But if you were to do
it across the board and average it, if you were to multiply X
millage by the increased tax roll less the deductions of the in-
creased additions to the roll, what would the millage be and
what would it produce'in total dollars?
Mr. Andrews: Let me make sure I understand that. We're talk-
ing about the existing roll having eliminated the new addit-
ions....
Mayor Ferre: Or if you want.. both ways. taking that into
account...
Mr. Andrews: Let me answer it the way I would like to answer
it and you ask some more questiois if I haven't answered it
fully. If we take the existing properties that are on the rolls
right now that are being taxed this year and eliminate the new
additions that will be considered for the new year...
Mayor Ferre: To fund this budget is what I'm getting at....
Mr. Andrews: And if you the Commission, which you have express-
ed independently and individually are concerned about taxes, if
you do not produce anymore revenue in the new year than we are
producing from properties this year and you use the increased
accessment of those properties and reduce the millage commen-
surately you end up with 11.672 and you produce the same amount
of revenue which in essence means if you look at the entire
City of Miami there is no tax increase.
Mayor Ferre: All right, now, if you were to take what the
taxpayers of Miami paid last year and put into that the in-
crease and you take the additions and you take that into
account, don't you see, and you do not increase the taxes on
the existing, now what would the millage be at that point?
Mr. Andrews: Well, to answer your question the same way, if
you continue with the 11.672 mills and you apply it to the
new additions by itself they would produce about $4,000,000
new revenue, tax revenue...
Mayor Ferre: Out of 36, you said?
Mr. Andrews: Well, it's 37. In other words in round figures
and I have the exact figures here to the dollar; in round fig-
ures it is $33,000,000 revenue produced from existing tax base
and about $4,000,000 in the new...
Mayor Ferre: And how much did they produce last year?
Mr. Andrews: The existing tax base? $33,000,000, the same
amount.
Mayor Ferre: So what you're saying is that the $33,000,000
that was produced last year by the millage of 13, whatever it
was to produce the same X number of dollars which was $33,0O0,000,
when you don't take into account the $4,000,000 in increases,
10
SEP 111974
the millage Would be 11.672 so in affect the 11.499 would
have been a reduction, as I understand it.
Mr. Andrews: Yes, and t want to explain that, how we arrived
at that. It might even be an error, but I dtn't think that it
is. What we did was when we examined one parcel of property,
and we went through this process in order to find some way of
dealing
Mr. Plummer: While these people are tied up in other matters,
I would like just for the record to reveal that what I have
presented here today is nothing that I'm throwing in at a very
late date that this something that I went on record 6 months
ago. I went on record once again in a memo form to the manager
approximately 6 weeks ago. 3o it is nothing new. Almost
everything which i will bring up in the budget hearings with
the exceptions of the Police Department I have documented in
memos at least 6 weeks in advance to the manager.
Mrs. Gordon: May I ask some questions while we're waiting for
information's sake? I brought the point up about the 11.672
and now you have explained that you arrived at this figure by
not counting the credits that would be possibly applicable to
a reduction of that figure through the new construction which
will be taxable as of next year. Is that correct?
Mr. Andrews: Well....
Mrs. Gordon: You didn't use that as any way of offsetting
this recommendation? Is tht correct?
Mr. Andrews: That's correct.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok. That's correct and this is exactly what I
had hoped and really anticipated that you would do, that you
would take into consideration the new construction, find a
millage rate to the entire tax roll for Next year and come up
with a total millage of less than 11.672. The Dade County
recommendation, if I recall properly was 8.367. What is your
recommendation for that portion not counting the debt ser-
vice? Can you give me a figure for that?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, 9.204.
Mrs. Gordon: In your first memorandum tous several weeks
ago was it the same thing then or is there a change?
Mr. Andrews: It would have been the difference between 11.499
and 11.672 so that's about .7 something mills.
Mrs. Gordon: In other words, it's not; the 9.204 is a slightly
higher figure. Right? Just let me get myself thinking in a
vein exactly of what I'm trying to understand. I want to know
how it is that we have the same approximate amount of debt
service this year as last year, right?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, $300,000 more.
Mrs. Gordon: How have you been able, I think I know the answer
but I want you to say it for the records; how have you been
able to reduce the millage on that so dramatically?
Mr. Andrews: Normally the city has received through asessment
payments and earnings from bonds outstanding about a million and
a half dollars per year. If you go back through prior years
11
you'll see that it repreksents about a Million and a half dole
largo This year we were able to earn considerably More be-
cause of the interest rates; Mr. Bailey has put this money
out where he was able to at 10, 10.5 and in some instances
on short term as high as 11% and the earnings of that fund
have exceeded the million and a half by over two million
dollars. So we have taken advantage of those earnings and
added them to....
Mrs. Gordon: I knew that's what you did but I want to know
what is the value of a mill?
Mr. Andrews: The value of a mill is 3,177,187.
Mrs. Gordon: And that's on your revised millage recommendat-
ion, Right?
Mr. Andrews: Yes. Mrs. Gordon, to continue, and I almost
interrupted you to tell you that, and the rest of the Commis-
sion that the difference between the 11.499 and the 11.672
millage represents about a half a million dollars in tax revenues.
I hope this doesn't get overly complicated and I'll be glad to
answer any questions once I've stated this. if the tax base
is not eroded through the board of equalization, eroded perhaps
is a poor choice of words; is adjusted because of claims of
high assessments and other reasons, if it is not reduced it
would be possible to levy the 11.499 and produce the same
amount of revenue that we're producing this year. But we
can't afford to take that risk any longer. •.,ast year the
Commission set its millage and Mayor, when you were on the
Commission this was, when you were a Commissioner years ago
you raised this question very forcefully and were very crit-
ical that the City administration followed a policy in which
it didn't anticipate a reduction of the tax base through the
Board of Equalization Hearings and because of our early date
of setting millage and then these sequence of events taking
place after that and one year, and I can't remember if it was
two years ago, that right on the day that the City Commission
was adopting its budget ordinance, we were confronted with
finding another $400,000 because we had received word that day
of the final Board of Equalization Hearings and they were
tremendous reductions in the tax base. Do you recall that, on
the very day? Now we're trying to avoid that kind of situat-
ion because we have a very complicated economical situation
here in which we're restricted really to two areas of flex-
ibility as far as funding this budget which I want to go into
this morning and that is through ad valorem taxes or through
Federal Revenue Sharing Funds. That is the only area that this
City Commission has any flexibility as far as providing the
improvements and expansion programs. We're trying to guard
against that and if the commission when it's finished, if it
levies the 11.672 we'll have built in a condition which will
provide us with the ability to fund this budget yet take into
account the fact that we know that the tax base is going to be
reduced. Last year the tax base was reduced $47,000,000 and
this half a million dollars in revenue represents approximately
$45,000,000 of tax base reduction this year.
Mr. Plummer: Paul, I don't disagree with your philosophy.
disagree with your figures.
Mayor Ferre: I don't mind these lights when somebody is tak-
ing some pictures but if they're not using them, boy i'11 tell
you it really is a problem to have to work under those lights.
Thank you.
12 SEP 111974
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, if Mrs. Gordon is finished, I'm not
trying to railroad anything...
Mrs. Gordon: t wanted to just note for the records that the
recommendation from the county was the 8.367, that plus our
debt service millage comes to a total of 10.662 and this
would hopefully be a target we could try to achieve or some-
thing between this and what the manager is recommending which
is 1 full mill away which is a matter of three million some odd
dollars. So this is what I'm hoping we can strive for so we
can reduce the millage from below what you're recommending, Mr.
Andrews, which is 11.672 to something at least between that and
the 10.66. We've got some finding to da and I think some paring
to do and so I would like to hear the presentations that were
planned so we can then decide what we feel, in our hearts, that
we can logically or we cannot logically cut out or cut down.
Mr. Plummer: I'll get back to my motion but Rose, let me say
this; you know I don't think any two people are alike and I
don't think any two budgets are alike. I think that the county
has their problems and their needs. The City of Miami has
separate problems and separate needs. t don't think that any
one entity whether it be the City or Coral Gables or Metro can
set the needs and the priorities for any other municipality.
I concur, if in fact, we can show a reduction we're that much
ahead of the game and with what I have here in this some hundred
hours that I've spent working on this budget, t think we, are
going to be able to show reductions. But I think it is not a
matter of need here because the need exists but it is a matter
of priorities. But i would like to get back...
Mrs. Gordon: Just let me state what; you misunderstood what
I said. I'm reading from the certification of millage and
taxable value which is delivered to us from the County Tax
Asessor. Am I correct? That's what I'm reading from. I'm
not reading about any County Commission recommendations or
anybody else. This is directly from the Tax Asessor, just
to set the record straignt.
Mr. Plummer: I understand but I made my point that their
needs are one thing and ours are another. I don't know if
you want to wait for the Mayor but very simply, my motion
will be that the manager or the administration redirect the
federal funds item 13 of page 10 putting back into the normal
budget $634,847.00; referring to page 7, that he put back into
the normal budget item 6, police expansion program and item 7
of the 5th Rescue Unit. Now that is the thrust of my motion
and transfer the appropriate funds from the regular budget
over to the federal revenue sharing budget those items which
hopefully will be a one year completion item. So actually,
what I'm saying in total dollars, that the manager be instruct-
ed to transfer $1,334,874.00 out of the revenue budget back
into the regular operating budget.
Mrs. Gordon: Before you go further on the motion, there is
another item in the revenue sharing portion of the budget which
refers to capital items and I need some information from the
manager as to the monies that are the net proceeds of the
special obligation bonds which amounts to a million plus and
where is that and what is that used for and why aren't these
capital improvements used, directed to come foot that source.
Mr. Andrews: There are no capital improvement funds in this
budget....
SEP 11 1974
Mrs. Gordon: in the revenue sharing you have budget capital
ite s.
Mr. Andrews: Oh, that's - 1 guess we're going to have to
change our noatehclature.' This is an accounting term that is
used throughout go4ernment to describe such items as type -
Writers, equipment used in the City, even to the extent of
vehicular equipment, trucks. It is all capital outlay. It
is laid out for those items that you're going to purchase dur-
ing the operating year of the budget. It is not capital im-
provements.
Mrs. Gordon: You can't use it from that source of funds?
Mr. Andrews: Oh, no.
Mrs. Gordon: All right. Is there anything in our regular, is
there any way that these funds could be used, these.are funds
that are held in abeyance for some so-c;ill€d for the capital
improvement program. Is there any thing at all that you're
budgeting through our entire budget where some of these funds
could be used?
Mr. Andrews: No, nothing. What we do do is to charge the
capital improvement program a servicing fund as a source of
revenue to assist us in helping to fund the budget. It is
minor amount. It is $50,000.
Mrs. Gordon: You use that on the reduction for your debt ser-
vice already?
Mr. Andrews: No, we used that as just revenue to the general
fund to help reduce the taxes from that source.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, did you?
Mr. Andrews: Yes.
Mrs. Gordon: In other words it would have been more than 11.6
mills that you're recommending now?
Mr. Andrews: Well, you know the $50,000 would have been off
the last place.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, it's not really anything, that's nothing.
Mr. Plummer: Paul, I noticed in one budget, was it Public
Works of Public Properties of some $400,000 for the acquisit-
ion of new equipment? Public Properties.
Mr. Andrews: That's replacement of equipment.
Mr. Plummer: Ok, that's under Public Properties...
Mr. Andrews: That's part of the 865,000. When you adopt in
your motion, you asked tht all the capita.t items in as many as
possible be transferred to federal revenue sharing we took all
of them.
Mr. Plummer: No. (INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Plummer, I can save you some time if I can
explain. I know exactly whet you're looking for. You'll find
an accounting of the purchase of that equipment listed on a
description within that budget but you must remember that if
111
SEP 111974
You look in the forward part of the budget there is a contrig.
bation of $4,500,000 from revenue sharing funds to the General
hind. NOW the idea was you wanted to make sure that that con..
tributitjn was not in salaries that it was transferred from s41-
Aries to capital items so we reduced the salary account and nut
capital items in.
Mr. Plummer: Paul, are you telling me that $598,680 that is
listed in Public Properties is the transfer from federal funds?
It is included as part of this budget.
Mr. Andrews: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: How much cf the federal revenue sharing was
transferred to the general fund? I don't see it listed in the
yellow pages. Find it for me in the yellow pages.
Mr. Andrews: For municipal services on page 4, start with
those items; these 13 items are carried in two categories. One
the items stand on their own as part of the federal revenue shar-
ing fund and are not carried and accountable in the regular bud-
get. Approximately four and a half million dollars of that
total sum is a direct contribution through these types of funct-
ions. We just transferred, we did what you had asked.
Mr. Plummer: Paul, my thinking then is that this is a doubliz-
ation.
Mr. Andrews: No, it is not.
Mr. Plummer: Well, then show me, I am asking you to show me
on page 120 items not listed but the fifth down it says re-
placement funds of $598,680 have been included for the contin-
uation of the replacement program of heavy equipment. I'm on
page 120. Yes, I know it is budget but why is it budgeted here
and also in federal revenue sharing? That's what I don't under-
stand.
Mr. Andrews: Because at the time that you asked that this ad-
justment, this budget was so far along that we try to make all
of these changes so that they only reflected in this portion of
the budget got so complicated that what we merely did was to
take and account for the funds, the federal revenue sharing funds
and identify where those contributing funds would be spent in
the budget. We're contributing directly four and a half million
dollars from federal revenue sharing funds to the General Fund
Budget and one of the items that we're going to fund out of the
four and a half million dollars is the replacement of that
equipment.
Mr. Plummer: Are youtelling me that 598,000 is not part of this
figure here?
Mr. Andrews: It is a part of their budget. But you are getting
funding and budget, let's separate the two.
Mr. Plummer: Yes, fine. That's what I want to do.
Mr. Andrews: So let's talk about a budget. You have a budget
there of whatever it is on that page, includes replacement of
equipment.
Mr. Plummer: All right. Let me ask it in another way. aet's
make it clear. Are you telling me, for example, the Police
SEP 111074
Expansion Fund actually shower up in the Police Budget?
Mr. Andrews: No, sir.
Mr. Plunnner: That's exac•,1y what ITn saying.
Mr. Andrews: I know that, I understand clearly. You're talk-
ing about two different things though.
Mr. Plummer: No, you are in the budget. I'm not.
Mr. Andrews: No. What I'm saying to you is it looks like to
me, if I'm not mistaken, we're talking about it, let's call it
$600,000 in the Public Properties then we're talking about..
Mr. Andrews: Let me explain it this way, Commissioner. If you
go through the white pages of the budget and you in all of the
items that are listed in there of which capital items would be
one, and you say I'm ,going to take capital items and I'm going
to find out how much that costs and I'm going to take $2,000,000
of the salary that is over in the budget and I'm going to list
these and I'm going to come up with four and a half million dol-
lars worth of costs. Now how am I going to fund these?
Mr. Plummer: Right.
Mr. Andrews: I'll go to thefederal revenue. sharing funds, and
I'll take four and a half million dollars from the federal
revenue sharing funds but we're going,to identify where it is._
in the federal revenue sharing funds that we're going toassem-
ble the 41 million dollars. ;'o....
Mr. Plummer: I don't read it that way, Paul.
Mr. Andrews: Well that's the way it is.
Mr. Plummer: I just don't understand why some of the things
in federal revenue that's termed municipal services are in-
cluded in some budgets but included in others. You're not
consistent.
Mr. Andrews: Because when we started out with the federal
revenue sharing funds 41 million dollars was easy to ident-
ify. It was salaries.
Mr. Plummer: 01. No, 51/2 million. That was your original
proposal.
Mr. Andrews: I thought it was 41,.alright., Four and a. half
million dollars and then when you introduce a motion which was
adopted as a resolution reducing that, you wanted it reduced
to at least $2,000,000 and you used as an example capital
items, you set that only as an example, to transfer those kind
of charges rather than salaries because if you -buy new equip-
ment and at the end of the year all of a .sudden. the federal.
government says no more federal revenue sharing funds you could
get by one more year without capital items until you. made a
determination to fund it some other way. That's what we've
done here. We've taken that part of the budget back. 'his
is the budget and we're funding it with federal revenue shar-
ing funds and we're describing in that funding motor pool re-
pJzcemernt $435, 000,,., capl.ta3, items $465, OOO.,, You, seer ,aq, .. .
e : , *, sr, . 4
MX, ; Plummer: But, you're ,.not .,consistent,
SEP11974
INAUDIBtt
Mr. Andrews: But I didr't want to get into that because: that
is going to even complicate it more.
Mr, Plummer: Well, I understand what Andy is saying and I
concur. But what you're telling me is the total outlay for
heavy equipment is going to be $600,000) not a million as I
read it. It is not going to be this figure and the other.
Mr. Andrews: No, that's right. No, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Then the way you have it listed here is incon-
sistent.
Mr. Andrews: Not We did exactly what you wanted us to do.
Mr. Plummer: Ok, but it is an inconsistent way of doing it.
Because with the Fire Department and their Rescue you didn't
add that figure.
Mr. Andrews: Yes, there was no money ... There was no way
to do that.
Mr. Plummer: Ok. I agree. I don't like it but I agree.
Mr. Andrews: Now I'm going to have to come back to the Com-
mission if this resolution is adopted and present various
alternatives that the Commission can select from in its infin-
ite wisdom as to what they would do in the event that federal
revenue sharing funds were removed.
Mr. Plummer: Paul, you're well aware, more so than any of
the other commissioners because I've had the pleasure of work-
ing with you and the department. You know, I think really
while we're waiting for the Mayor to come back, I don't think
any of us realize the job that the budget office does. When
I started going through this budget some three weeks ago, four
weeks ago; it is an impossible task and at best they have come
up and delivered something that at least gives us a starting
point to go from. When I started going through the working
budgets and the working documents I would have been there for
four hundred hours instead of one but these people over there
are able to take - it just amazed me - and lay their finger on
everything continuously. I asked for something and by God I
had the answer in an hour or two hours and maybe the next day
but I want to compliemtn the Budget Department because I think
they've done one hell of a fine job. I don't necessarily agree
with their philosophy but they work hand and they do a good
job.
Mr. Andrews: Well, let me add to that because Mr. Bailey, I'm
sure would, Betty Harris, I'm sure would reinforce my comments
and that is that the City just has to change its procedures as
far as making information available on which these judgements
are made including the information that can be made available
to the department directors and their staffs for making up
these budgets. The way we're proceeding to develop information
which Mt. Bailey and his people are forced to do because they
don't have the equipment available but one day when we're auto-
mated then we will be able to have information available in a
short period of time and in a timely fashion. Information
that is developed in March and you try to keep that up by hand
posting through the month that we're going through the budget;
it is just a horrendous task.
to
SEP 11 1974
• Mr. Miller: t think in a11 it's said right here in this
thing which is the first year we've received the work papers
• to the budget and this is the name of the game right here.
Mr. Andrews: Cominissiot er Plummer, we sent to you only the
streamline neat accountable items. There is another whole set
of files that is as thick as thnt book that that file sits on
that backs that up that we have in the budget office. And if
you wanted to go behind those details you'd have to go into
those pepers.
Mr. Plummer: I know, I read them.
Mrs. Gordon: Could we move on?
Mr. Plummer: Yes. Mr. Mayor, I have a motion before the
commission which I think you are familiar with.
Mayor Ferre: Is this in relation to the $630,000?
Mr. Plummer: Plus the other two items that we're transfer-
ring, item 6 of page 7, the Police Expansion Program I want
put back into the regular budget and take something else out;
item 7 of $350,000 of the Rescue Unit - I want that put into
the regular budget and move something else over.
Mrs. Gordon: If this causes the millage to rise would you
still be in favor of that procedure?
Mr. Plummer: No, Ma'am because I'm fully aware that it doesn't
have to rise.
Mrs. Gordon: Then why can't we hold off all motions until we've
heard all presentations and then we can decide whether or not
we feel - I couldn't vote on your motion right now because I
haven't yet heard whereyou intend or anyone else intends to do
some slicing and I want some slicing too.
Mr. Plummer: Well, I'm just trying to put it into proper
perspective before we start....
Mrs. Gordon: Well we understand, I understand and I'm in a
accord with the intent but I don't think that the motion is
at a timely right now.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, let me ask you this quest on now.
We're beginning to get down to the nitty gritty and right down
to the essentials. Now, it came quicker this time than I
thought it would happen but let me ask you this. How much
reshuffling because that's really what it amounts to, do we
have to do and what impact on at the policy decision - obviously
we're going to have to get down to some decisions. I remember
one time back in '69 we got down to whether or not we were go-
ing to charge for garbage and that happened to be an alternate
and I'm sure many of you here remember that. That was the only
way we could solve it so this Commission had to back off of
that because we weren't about to start charging for garbage
services. My question to you is, and I know this is not that
type of a question because it is not a matter of additional
funds but rather a redistribution. That will have certain
implications tha this Commission is going to have to...
Mr. Andrews: I can assist the Commission in this way that if
you choose you could go right through all of the budget hear-
ings and let's make the assumption that you're satisfied with
1 SEP 11 1974
• •
everything etse, You could go ahead and adopt the budget
and Consider the federal revenue sharing based on the reso-
lutions that you're adopting because it is a funding, not a
budget. 'you're not saying at this point, eliminate the Police
Expansion Program or eliminate the Fire Department. You're
concerned with the way it is funded. The funding of it shows
up in the budget at 41 million dollars and it would be a quest-
ion of replacing this with something else that would show up
in the federal revenue sharing funds as a source of funding
of programs that /
Mayor Ferret That's my question. Now what's the answer?
You've repeated my question.
Mr. Andrews: I'm saying that you can go ahead and• do that,
that that policy decision can be made even after, if you wish,
after the budget is adopted because it is saying which one of
the items in the regular budget will we then consider for
funding out of the federal funds.
Mayor Ferre: All right. Now, I would like then, Commissioner
Plummer, to propose this: That you be very careful in the way
you couch your motion so that the principle of it is firm but
the implementation of it is loose enough so that it does not
bind the manager. I hope we give him in the motion enough
latitude so that we can then proceed with the budget estimate,
the reading of it and the discussion of it and then we can
come back, ask Commissioner Gordon once....
Mrs. Gordon: Motions later.
Mayor Ferre: Well, he wants to establish a principal here
and I see his point and it is a valid point and if he can get
a second the chair will accept the motion.
Mrs. Gordon: I'm not ready for a motion, so....
Mr. Plummer: I'll make it in the broadest latitude that I
can.. It is the intent and policy of this commission that
the excess items above two million in pay salary funding and
the items of Police Expansion Program and Fire Department be
placed back in the regular budget in the regular operating
budget, if that's suitable... Be funded from the regular
budget not from federal revenue sharing... Providing it does
not give a tax millage increase.
Mrs. Gordon: Right. And there is still an opportunity to
shave it which is what we're going to try to do. We want
to do that.
Mayor Ferre: That has nothing to do with it. You're talking
about apples and he's talking about oranges.
Mrs. Gordon: Well,that's why I thought it much better to let
this thing rest until everything has been presented.
Mayor Ferre: Re's not talking about oranges...
Mrs. Gordon: Well, he could be talking about oranges.
Mayor Ferre: I don't think he is and he doesn't think he
is and let's see what the rest of the commission thinks about
it. So you know, it is that simple. Is that your motion?
Mr. Plummer: That's my motion.
19 Sp) .1.1974
Mayor Ferret There is i second on the motion. is there further
discussion? It is a motion of intent.
Mr. Plummer: A motion of intent and 1 include the wording of
Mrs. Gordon: provided that it does not increase the millage.
The follow ng Motion was introduced by Mr. Plummer who
Moved its adoption:
MOTION NOD. 74-694
A MOTION DECLARING THE POLICY OF THE
CITY COMMISSION THAT THE FUNDS IN EXCESS
OF TWO MILLION DOLLARS APPEARING UNDER
ITEM 13 "SALARY FUNDING" IN THE FEDERAL
REVENUE SHAKING PORTION OF THE CITY
MANAGER'S BUDGET ESTIMATE, TOGETHER WITH
ITEMS 6 AND 7 "POLICE EXPANSION FUNDS"
AND "FIRE DEPARTMENT FIFTH RESCUE UNIT"
IN SAID PORTION OF THIS DOCUMENT BE
FUNDED FROM REGULAR BUDGET FUNDS AND NOT
FROM FEDERAL REVENUE SHARING FUNDS, PRO-
VIDED SUCH ACTION WILL NOT RESULT IN A
TAX INCREASE.
Upon being seconded by Rev. Gibson, the motion was passed
and adopted by the following vote -AYES: Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso,
Rev. Gibson, Mrs. Gordon and Mayor Ferre. NOES: None.
ON RDLL CALT.
Mrs. Gordon: I'll vote yes just so it doesn't preclude any
other changes.
Mayor Ferre: Are there further items to be brought up before
we now get into our work?
Mr. Plummer: Mayor, yes. I want tW make one other point
which I want the manager to speak to throughout his present-
ation so that is the reason I'm bringing this out. If I might
direct your attention to the, and only using this as the exam-
ple, the City Manager's Budget; but I want him to speak to it
all the way through. I think in the manner in which this is
presented is greatly misleading. Page 21. I this morning
questioned of the manager why... No, let me go to another
budget to make it easier, to use the one I used this mocking.
Let's use page 27 since everything in that budget remains con-
stant. Page 27, the Budget Office itself. As you might note,
on the bottom line it shows that the amount of employees has
remained constant since the creation of the Budget Department.
This Commission last year approved their salary at $123,000.
During the year because of the 5% increase and regular merit
raises that was readjusted $9,000 higher to $132,000. The
point that I'm going to make is that what is proposed by the
manager in this budget of $140,000 I think is misleading. I
say that because, well, but I want him to speak to it all the
way through, that figure is no where near correct as we know
it now, or the manager knows it now. That figure does not
reflect any merit raises for this year nor any cost of living
for this year or any executive adjustments for this year.
What I'm saying is listed in the budget is $140,000 but we
know right off the bat if we use the 10% cost of living that
that figure should be $154,000 plus executive raise adjust-
ments, plus the other items of fringe benefits and everything.
What I'm saying, in simply is that this we know right now is
not a true figure. We know it is going to be a lot more than
20
SEP 11 1974
this figure. As he goes through the budget t want him to
speeh to that item.
Mayor Ferre: to other words what you're saying, to put it
right down on the line is that it's really six million, one or
whatever it is more.
Mr. Plummer: More, that's right.
Mr. Andrew*: And that was by design and the manager knew
this when he made out....
Mayor Ferre: Well sure.
Mr. Plummer: It's by design but it's not reflective of what
we are presented with and what we have to make decisions on.
Mr. Andrews: It never has been. Where it shows up though
in the budget is in special programs and accounts budget and
it is very clearly identified there and it is done that way
so the commission has the flexibility of decision making.
Mayor Ferre: I understand, but Plummer has a very valid point,
Paul. That is that as we go through this budget I think it is
important that you distribute that six million dollars approp-
riately on a department basis so that we know what affects
each department as we go department by department. Because
you're not talking about a small sum you're talking about 7 or
8% of the total budget. I'm saying it is 7 or 8% of the total
budget and it is over 10% of the employee cost portion of the
budget.,
Mr. Andrews: Right, personnel costs.
Mayor Ferre: So in other words, it has an impact and I think
nobody is accusing anybody of hiding or subtrifuge dr anything
else, no bad intents meant here. He's just clarifying and I
agree with his position, that as we go through each depart-
ment that should be redistributed so that at least as we go
through it we're conscious of what's happening. Any other
declaratory statements of philosophy? Let's get on with the
business. We've got a 5 minute break then.
Thereupon the commission took a brief recess.
Mayor Ferre: A11 right, Mr. Andrews, you can begin your
deliberations. I hope now that we can go right through.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, I am
presenting to you a City Manager Budget Estimate which pro-
vides for a total city budget of 85.5 million dollars and I
will be reviewing with the commission how we have arrived at
the 85.5 but I want to indicate to the commission that the
more significant areas of expansion and needed funding are
due to the fact that this budget provides for an additional
41 police personnel, some of which are direct police officers
for field duty and others are staff to assist the police
officer in the field, relighting for 28% more of the city
and after this budget year we will have 75% of the City lit
with the sodium vapor lights. We'll have another 20-22% more
to go in the following year. We've added 14 fire personnel
to enable us to reduce the work week from 54 to 52 hours. The
budget also provides for a 10% across the board cost of liv-
ing increase. There are major adjustments and revision of
the employee health insurance program. There's funding of a
2J.
SEP 11 1974
new iteM which is unemployment compensation that we've had to
wrestle with, if I may nee those words, in that the state legis-
lature adopted legislation which places...,
Mayor Ferret INAUDIBLE
Mr. Andrews: Yes, sir. Plates responsibility upon the City
to provide for unemployment compensation and this creates in
one department a very serious problem which we're looking at
very carefully. In the Sanitation Department we have budgeted
approximately $300,000 for stand-by labor. When people don't
show up for work we still must collect the garbage and rather
than budget for an abundance of people we use an account ident-
ified as a stand-by labor. We are able to hire people for
short periods of time one day, one week. Now these people
if they come to work for the City for a short period of time
will in fact become a liability as far as the City is concerned
through the unemployment compensation and we're going to have
to solve that problem now, we're forced to solve the problem
and change our operation. That too, yes, sir. We're going to
have to evaluate that, those areas very carefully in that those
people who come to work for us on a summer time -part time basis
then have certain rights under the unemployment compensation 1
law and we're going to have to be very careful how that is anal-
yzed and how that is treated. It is new to everyone, we're
not sure of the ground work. It is very complex. You know
from your own personal business experience what the laws are
as far as it affects private enterprise and is very compli-
cated there..the full impact hits local government, we've got
a real complicated area on our hands.
Mrs. Gordon: How much was that amount you just mentioned?
Mr. Andrews: For the unemployment compensation?
Mrs. Gordon: No, those workers that don't show up and re-
placement. How much was that?
Mr. Andrews: We budget by design $300,000 annually.
Mrs. Gordon: Under the Sanitation ,budget?
Mr. Andrews: Yes.
Mrs. Gordon: $300,000. Did you use all of that last year?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, Ma'am and then some.
Mrs. Gordon: Question. When they don't show up for work,
those that don't show up for work don't get paid do they?
Mr. Andrews: Yes, ma'am. They do get paid.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, if they don't show up...
Mr. Andrews: If a person, let me illustrate. If you have a
garbage truck that has a driver and four crew members and one
of those persons calls in ill and is entitled to one days ill
time, if you send the garbage truck out with three people and
a driver you're not going to get the garbage collected in the
same amount of time and it takes longer to do this. Now if you
multiply this three, four, five times a day you have to have
those people to pick up the garbage. So you go to stand-by
labor rather than employing another body of people with all
the over head costs in keeping them on the payroll for an
22 SEP 111974
entire year we've need a°Mechanism in which we hire people at
the gate sod.toispeak for that day or two days, or three days.
Yn addition to this we've had to add to our workmen's compen-
sation requirements because of a change of benefits, change of
insurance requirements, the cost of hospitalization. All of
this is added to an increased burden in the budget. We've also
made an effort in this budget recognizing that 90% of all the
money that we budget goes towards employees in one form or
another, in salaries, fringe benefits, hospitalization. Ninety -
percent of all the money we have in this budget when you ex-
clude street lighting and debt service, that leaves 10% for
contracture' services, commodities, the purchase of equipment;
and this purchase of equipment is extremely important to the
city. If we don't have good eq ipment that little increment
that we spend on equipment in relation to the big basic cost
of personnel, I can't describe to the commission adequately
the difference it makes when you have adequate equipment versus
old equipment and so we're really foolish when we don't make
the proper investment in equipment and this budget provides
for increased purchasing of replacement equipment at an earlier
date so that we can put better equipment in the hands of our
employees. I have several charts which I want to present to
the commission and I will reproduce these charts and supply
them to the commission after you've viewed them through the
viewfinder we have here, this photographic process where we
can project them upon the wall. This first chart describes an
overall view of the total city budget, 1973-74 and the new
budget - 1974-75. You'll note that the General Fund has in-
creased from $49,000,000.00, $50,000,000 to 58.3 million dol-
lars. You'll note that the way we have funded this that there
is a reduction in the millage. Pension, Social Security and
Insurance had a tremendous change this year and most of that
adjustment which we'll be talking about a little bit later is
in the area of penions. Publicity remains the same. We are
able to
Mayor Ferre: Do we have copies of this?
Mr. Andrews: No, I'm going to furnish the City Commission
copies of this later. In all fairness, Mr. Mayor, I was
afraid if I distributed this in advance that I wouldn't get
the commission's attention that I would like at this point
so I will do it afterwards.
Mayor Ferre: You did the right thing.
Mr. Andrews: Publicity is 1.4 million in '73-74 and it's the
same amount in 74-75 and you will make observations there as
far as the millage is concerned. There is a reduction and
that comes about principally because of the expansion of the
tax base - we're able to reduce the millage. The street
lighting provides million dollars this year with 1.2 mil-
lion dollars in federal revenue sharing funds to make up a
total budget of 2.7 million dollars for street 1'ghting.
Mayor Ferre: Would you add that when you give us the figures
on the side so that we can have the totals?
Mr. Andrews: Yes.
Mrs. Gordon: Can I just ask you a question, Mr. Andrews, on
street lighting. We've received complaints during this year,
I think all of us did from different areas where people don't
want the sodium vapor lights. What are we going to do? Force
it down their throats or
2s
Mayor Ferro: And Vice versa, there are people who are all
upseit because they haven't had their lights.
Mrs. Gordon: Yes. 11e11, what I'm trying to say is isn't it
an idea for ua to have neighborhood hearings for the particular
areas that Might or might not want these kinds of lights?
Mr. Andrews: Well, I think you'll get into a problem that
Father Gibson pointed out last year, maybe it was the year
before that in which he specifically auked me "Are we going
to treat the entire city alike when we put these sodium vapor
lights in" My response was yes. It was the City Commission's
policy that we're going to relight the entire city with sodium
vapor lights.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, it's not that we have the prerogative. If
you or I live in a neighborhood who don't want it then I don't
think it is right for us to force it on them.
Mr. Andrews: On one hand the public is saying reduce taxes
and I don't want to be taxed for services that are rendered.
On the other hand, if we don't put these kind of lights in
you have more accidents, you don't make the rights of way avail-
able safely for pedestrians, you cause a greater police problem
Mrs. Gordon: Public hearing approach is what I'm saying.
Mayor Ferre: Yes. But you see, I think Rose is right about
the public hearing approach now. But that doesn't mean we're
not going to do it because we have public hearings on sewage
improvements and you know we have to get down to it - Ladies
and gentlemen, we need to sewer the city, we need to get on
with it. A lot of people don't like traffic lights but you
know we've got to put traffic lights and 4-way stop signs.
Look at these 4-way stop signs that have created problems for
Plummer in his neighborhood. But we've got to do it. There
are certain things that we've got to do and I don't see, I
personally don't see how we can light part of the city and not
the other part. But on the other hand I think the people have
a right to a public hearing if they petition us.
Mr. Andrews: Sure. I didn't mean to imply that, Mr. Mayor.
A11 right. To continue, debt service has increased approx-
imately $300,000 over last year and it is quite obvious as I
explained earlier that here was an area where we had some flex-
ibility and we shifted that flexibility in terms of millage by
reducing the millage and allowing not quite as large a reduct-
ion then in the operating areas. So it is a pure switching of
millage requirement and then the Public Facilities Department
which is a new function but the 2.3 million represents the cost
of operating last year when it operated without the benefit of
department direction. In other words, these functions were
scattered through many departments.
The last item is the tax base deductions 1 million dollars.
If you adopt 11.672 mills and after you adopt that millage,
and we have a tax base erosion as we had last year of about
47 million dollars, it could be more this year because people
are upset about their assessments of their property, that sum
of money, that If million dollars will fade away and won't be
available. The 11.672 with that 1 million dollars accounted for,
as if it were in place and as if we had not received any tax
base reduction for existing properties. Not the new additions.
It means if you consider all of those existing properties as
one large taxpayer which all the people of the city of miami
are who pay taxes, you the commission if you adopt this
millage will be saying to them,
24
SEP 11 1974
that you, the total city, will not be producing any more tax
dollars in the coming year than you have this year.
Are therd any questions in this general area before we go on
to the next chart?
Please turn to page 8 of the blue section in your budget book.
If you look up at the chart on the wall, and I am going to talk
in terms of only 1974-5 so I don't have to use so many words.
The advalorum taxes imposed for the operation of the general fund
budget only, that doesnl't include street lighting, debt service,
publicity, just operations in the general fund.
17.6 million dollars. i:ircle that particular revenue.
The next major source of revenue to the City is Revenue Sharing
4.8 is revenue that we are using in the general fund budget from
federal revenue sharing sources.
State revenue is 13,517,000. Business licenses same as last year
is 2.85 million. fines and forfeitures, we are estimating the
same revenue from that source which ie all from the county court
system. The utility service tax fund, there is some growth in
that based on the increase rates and applicable growth and
electrical uses and the anticipated revenue will be nearly 10
million dollars. Now all the rest of the areas of revenues,
business taxes, telephone, gas franchises , purchase discounts,
sale of capital items, service charges for civilian identification,
auto pound you have before you and on page 11, the balance of those
areas that produce revenue for the city amount to $5,983,000.
The significance of all of this is that if you were to arbitrarily
which I am not recommending to the Contnission because we are going
to be supplying the Commission with information during this coming
year as to what kind of adjustments should be made and where as
far as service charges, fees which will cover these 32 miscellaneous
sources but if you were to arbitrarily say, we are going to increase
that 10% at this time, that would produce $600,000. I want you to
keep that in mind in measure of the kind of problem.
That is only a minor area and represents 6 million dollars.
If you arbitrarily levied a 10% increase in all our fees and
everything, it would produce $600,000 at that point.
Mrs. Gordon is talking about the possibility of finding 3 million
dollars or more. When you start talking about 3 million dollars,
we have no area if you wanted to shift the tax burden by 3 million
dollars and say lets find a revenue rather than cut services.
The utility service tax fund - there is nothing that this City Comm-
ission can do to increase revenue at thatpoint because it is con-
trolled by the utilities and how well they grow and the rates
they charge so that fixed. Fines and forfeitures, you have no
control over that based on the court system and revenues we receive.
Business licenses, that is fixed by law now. When they adopted the
10 mill cap, they adopted other legislation that prevented us
from increasing beyond 1972, the amount of revenue that we receive
from this source.
You go up to the state, that is a fixed formula, there is nothing
the city commission can do to change the amount of revenues from
the state. That leaves 2 areas that the city commission has any
flexibility and that is federal revenue sharing funds or advalorum
taxes or coming back and adjustments in the fees structure.
There are only these 3 areas that you can do anything - that I can
make any recommendation to you in order to change the revenues that
come in to operate the total general fund.
Mrs. Gordon: With regard to the funds thht are going to come in
from the community development program as recently passed by
congress, have you taken it into account, any of our current
programs or has your department begun to work on the,plan for
some new programs?
I understand we are getting 2.7 million or in that close vicinity
the first program year.
Mr. Andrews: That has not officially been published as yet and
we are not sure of the exact allocation but we understand its near
2.7 million dollars.
25 SEP 11 1074
the final rules and regulations for the administration of that
plan by the federal government are not available and I understood
that they were to be available about the middle of this month.
that Housing and community development program is a very important
program for the City but no way should it be confused with the
operation of the city. That is mainly to provide new facilities,
acquisition of land, housing and other matters.
The Community Development act will provide for basic capital
improvements with very limited funds for operating programs.
Now the last item on the page is the fund balance and we estimate
that the fund balance to the close of this year will be about 21
million dollars.
Mr. Plummer: Dr. Toto is here and we have never had any questions
about his budget and I think it is important that he gets back to
the office and the fundtions he needs to do and if there are no
objections to his budget, that we can release him to go back on
the city physicians budget.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer
who moved its adoption:
MOTION 74-69:;
A MOTION APPROVING THE BUDGET OF THE CITY PHYSICIANS
OFFICE AS RECOMMENDED BY THE CITY MANAGER FOR THE
FISCAL YEAR 1974-75.
Upon being seconded by Mrs. Gordon, the motion was passed and
adopted by the following vote - AYES: Messrs. Plummer, Reboso,
Mrs. Gordon, Rev. Gibson and Mayor Ferre. NOES: None
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Andrews, may we please have the printed forms
that are on the board while you are talking to it. It'u rather
difficult from this position to see those figures.
Mr. Andrews: The existing properties only and reducing them to
the 95% value because of early payment and other considerations
and those existing properties were in 1973-4 at a value of 211
million dollars and they rose to 3 billion, 33 million dollars
and then when reduced to 95%, 2 billion, 881 million.
the tax base rose by 21% for existing properties.
From 21/2 billion to 3 billion 033 million and when you reduce that
because of early payment and other considerations.
Mayor Ferre: Is your 21%, 95 to 95% or is it 95% to 100%7
Mr. Andrews: 95% of the full value reassessed which is 3 billion
.033 versus 2 billion 503.
This chart gives the comparison of total millage for several years
including the new millage and how we arrived at the yield per
mill. Existing properties at 3033 and the new additions and you
take 95% you haac a total city tax base of 3 billion, 177 million
dollars. The yield per mill is $3,177,187.00 and if you multiply
it times the proposed millage, it produces 37 million dollars.
This particular budget has had a significant impact upon the city's
budget this year in that due to the creduction of age of
actuarial requirements from 60 to something below that, that is
tge actuarial tables were designed with the understanding that
people on an average age would be leaving the city at age 60,
that is no longer true.
S EP 111974
In addition, the full impact of benefits passed over the past 5
Mears, salary increases which took place over the last 3 years,
earnings in the past 5 years have not established at the 4 3/4%
as hoped it would be and this increase also provides for a 1%
cost of living increase for existing pensioneers.
The $6,000,000 in addition to the operating cost included in this
budget estimate, since the publication of the budget estimate,
we have found from our actuaries that we need an additional ;
million dollars. I am not prepared this morning to tell the
Commission where that 1.1 million dollars is• going to come from.
I want to pare it down to one recommendation, as to how this
will be accomplished but this is going to be very difficult to
solve.
I am now prepared to look at each departmental budget involved
and I would like to recommend that they start either this morning
or the first thing this afternoon with 4 particular departments.
Police, Fire, Sanitation and Building Departments and then
Public works, Parks & Recreation. I would like to get those 4
today if we can reviewed and some decisions made.
We have just gone through the general budget review. The second
thing would be a department budget as presented by the department
heads with any questions the Commission may have and then the
employee organizations insofar as their negotiations and may be
perhaps, a re -discussion of pensions at that time, a discussion
on the federal revenue h-zdget and the Commission will ask undoubtedly
for presentations by the public to ascertain what their wishes are
and then we will have to have a formal session in which we will
adopt the appropriation and millage ordinances. Once that is
achieved, then, as required by state law because we are exceeding
certified millage for the operating portion ofl'the total millage,
we must hold 2 separate public hearings after 5 PM to -
We will advertise and you must have a 7 day span period between
the advertisement date and that first hearing.
Mayor Ferre: What is the difference between the excess over the
certification?
Mr. Andrews: approximately .08 of a mill. eight tenths of a mill
would represent in round figures about $2,600,000
Mr. Plummer:
to have that
Mr. Andrews:
If we don't exceed the millage, do we still have
public hearing? You are being very presumptuous.
No you don't.
Mr. Plummer: If we come within the millage, those 2 hearings
are not necessary?
Mr. Andrews: That's right.
Mayor Ferre: Now lets get it very clear. We would be talking
about the cutting of 2 million dollars?
Mr. Andrews: I am estimating 1.6 - 80% - 8/10 of i mill or
80% of $3,177,000 about 2.6
Mr. Plummer: I asked of the Budget Department but have not
received because I always ask the Department Directors to speak
to and that is, I want to know, what was in your requested budget
that was denied?
Some 3 years ago, I found out that one the items left out of the
Fire Department budget was bullet proof bubbles for the top of
the fire trucks and it was denied by the administration and I
thought that it was very important that it should be reinstated
in the budget. Now I want to know of each department what they
have requested in their original request that was denied and cut
out of this years budget?
27
•
I want to know what was denied by the budget department and I
want to decide whether I think its important or not.
Mr. Andrews: I will try to have that in the next day or two.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Jones (Sanitation Dept.) I would like to l+now
in your presentation, whart was denied in the request.
Mr. Jones, Sanitation Department: I am receiving one administrative
aide in the budget and I had requested that some office space be
provided, petitioned off in order for me to have a place to put
this man. We are very crowded and I really need this. This was
the only name of any significance that was cut out of the budget.
Mayor Ferre: You don't have the man on yet?
Mr. Jones: No not yet.'
Mayor Ferre: How many aides do you have now?
Mr. Jones: I have no aides. I have an Assistant Director.
Mayor Ferre: One Assistant.
Mr. Jones: There are some things related to performance and
agreements with the labor organizations.
Mayor Ferre: Are you talking about job performance?
Mr. Jones:, Yes. I need to make some analysis of our routes
and some of our systems and I need somebody for that work.
Mayor Ferre: We are all guided by our own personal lives. I am
influenced by what I do. Dade County has a 7% unemployment today.
I will make a prediction before the end of the year, this community
will be up to 10% unemployment. Now I will make a further prediction
that unless the President in the next 10days moves very very swiftly
to increase the amount of monies available and puts a little pressure
on Chairman Burns, that this country is into a very serious
recession. I don't think we are going to go into a depression.
We saw it yesterday when general motors says they are going to
cut down on production by 6%, you know what that means and I don't
want to get into a partisan speech but there hasn't been one
republican administration in history that has not dealt with the
economy by other means other than creating unemployment and just
putting the country into a recession. None. Many of my good republican
friends feel that it is necessary for the health of the country
and I understand. I don't agree with it but I understand.
The point as it affects you Mr. Jones and as it affects me in my
business is that there are a lot of things I want in my business but as of
this week, I have had to call in my department heads and say fellas, not
this year. We are not going to get a new garage and we are not going to
go on computers, not this year. It isn't that it isn't needed and it isn't
that it isn't efficient . I can say not to something to that because money is
costing )5X today and it isn't a question of return on investment, it is a
question of return on investment, it's a question of how much cash flow
do you have available to meet that problem.
Transposing that into government, that is just a point now Paul, right in the
beginning. I am afraid we are going to have to view, all of sitting here as
policy makers, the nitty gritty of it. I think we are going to have a long
hard look department by department on things we all know are needed.
We all know are good but we are going to have to be careful now. I think we
are heading into a difficult period and my concern. I think what we are doing
in this budget Mr. Andrews moreso than in any other budget in the City of Miami
is we are talking about the survival of the City of Miami is budget, is our
consideration whether in two years from now, there will be a City of Miami. has
got nothing to do in my opinion contrary to J.L.'s on revenue sharing.
There are a lot of other things involved in this and we are getting closer
to that thin ice. 'think department by department, I hope all of us on this
table and the administration will really ask these hard questions such as
assistants and therefore based on that Mr. Jones, I don't repeat this for every
department but the intention is clear. Can you function this next year without
that assistant?
SEP111974
It's not the aasietant, its the consequential office that ne needs, the
automobile that he needs and all the other expenses so it isn't a question
of spending $15,000, its a question of spending probably 30 or 35 thousand
plus in these cycles, as you get into them, men always have to justify their
existence and once you get in, its very very hard and Paul I am an administrator
with my other hat and you are an administrator here and I sit down with a
division vice president and I will spend 5 hours and he will give me all the
reasons, and you know he is right, we just can't cut 10% of the employees.
No way to do it and then I say, you have convinced me and you are right, the
logic is on our side but co it anyway. He says, well its going to be tougl and
Isay I know and you have my sympathies. I am with you and I know we will Irobably
be going into a tailspin and be a horrible situation. 6 months later, I call him
in and say, how are we doing? He said, you know the guys we got rid of, I guess
we have been able to survive without them and that's where we are in this budget.
Mr. Andrews: I am not in discord with any portion of what you have said
but when you apply what you have said to a department like Sanitation, then
what you should do is put the burden on the Manager and the Department Director
to advise you if you are talking about ] position and lets assume its $14,000
and say Mr. Jones, where can you get along with $]4,000 less without losing that
person? The reason a person is important in this instance is that what Mr. Jones
is trying to tell you is that with this person, he will then have the time to
give his attention to those areas that produce some real savings to the City
in the way we are routing our trucks and how we are picking up. It may mean
that we can get along with 1 less truck later and a whole crew.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Jones, your request was for a facility in effect, apiece
to put this man.
Mr. Jones: yes, an administrative aide was approved but I have no place to
put the man and Ihad requested an office which amounted to $10,000.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Andrews, would this request fit in under the net receipts
that you have from the special obligation fund bonds? Could you take that
little sum out of that?
Mr. Andrews: This is one area that we were considering as an area in which
these type of improvements could be made. WHat we: were not sure of was
whether capital improvement funds could be used for an adjustment as small as
this and it would have to come from incinerator bond funds.
Mrs. Gordon:
which capital
nowhere along
Mr. Andrews:
of the law as
It's the prerogative as I read it of the Commission to designate
improvements that net proceeds shall be used for and I saw
the way that it said that x-number of dollars was a minimum amount.
That's true except you have to stay within the prescribed letter
to what constitutes capital improvements because -
Mrs. Gordon: Capital is real property.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews, perhaps you can have somebody give me this calculation
and I am going to apply this formula.
Somebody is going to have to prove to me any deviation from this formula.
I want a percentage factor that I want to use in every one of these pages
and here is the factor I want you to come up with.
You take into account the increase in our tax base due to additions which
you told me was 4 million dollars.
Mrs. Gordon:
Mayor Ferre:
Mrs. Gordon:
You mean new construction?
Yes, additions to the tax base.
311 million.
29
SEP 11 1974
Mayor Ferre: WHich is 4 million. You take into account the increase portion
that we are getting in revenue sharing both state and federal, fees and other
increases we have, whatever they may be, and 1 want that as a factor.
1 want to know what the percentage is and the )O% we are going to be giving
to the employees. I want that belanceed one against the other and I want you
to come up with a a mathematical factor on a percentage basis because I want
to apply that on a numerical basis to each department.
For example if it happens to be lOX, or15%, Iwant to just arbitrarily apply that
to 8,885,000-
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, what you are really saying is that you want it reduced
to last years Tillage. Isn't that what you are really saying?
Mayor Ferre: Yes but I want to have the leway of taking into account, those
things that do not cost the taxpayers. That has to be weighed into the
budget.
Mr. Plummer: Well Mr. Mayor, I concur with you but let me tell you Paul otA
thing I m not going to stand still for a reduction of employees in police and
fire. No way, so you better apply that percentage somewhere else because
that is one area I am not going to stand still.
My proposal is going to be more in the Police Department.
Rev.Gibson: When you tell me what you asked for and needed and you did not
get, that the Manager tell me why he didn't give it to you.
Mayor Ferre: That is another matter altogether.
Rev. Gibson: I want the Manager everytime to tell me why he didn't give it
to him and that makes me know that you are cognizant of the proper use of
my money, the money the people asked me to disburse.. Then I have to decide
if what he wants is really going to do what I hope to accomplish.
I am a little worried that we let the Physician go and approve his budget.
I wanted him to sweat it out too. Personally I believe than
everyone of you should have been sweating.
I could see some dangers. In the #2 thing that I just said, I
am not so sure that I want to apply a percentage to all, only
because I may have to make a choice. I don't think I could afford
to choose whether I want a Rescue Squad in the Fire Department
to save lives over against giving you an office. If I have to
decide whether you get an office or an Assistant, you know what
I am going to do. I am going to decide to save lives.
When you answer Mr. Andrews, I hope you will keep in mind that
I am not really like Plummer and the Mayor or Rose. Mine comes
from a different psychology and philosophy.
Mr. Plummer: Well aren't you really saying Mr. Mayor, to every
department head, we are looking at cutting your budget 15%. using
that as an arbitrary figure?
Now what in your budget can give to show a 15% reduction?
And 15% is arbitrary but, aren't you saying that we want each
budget cut X-number %, and if we cut your budget Mr. Department head
what is going to give and what can give? Isn't that really what we
are saying?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, but its not 15%. My guess is that we are talking
about 5% reduction. Paul, you better work on that formula .
Take 21 million dollars, is really what you are referring to
and 1 don't know if you are applying that to the general fund revenue
or whether you apply it to the overall budget. If you apply it to the
general fund, 21/2 million dollar increase is obviously 4%, 441 or 5%.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, you have to take into consideration the
comments that I just made that there is going to be no reduction in
Police and Fire? Father Gibson, I hope it is not your intention nor
anyone else on this Coamtission, that as we hear this director when
he her concluded, that we are going to approve his budget until we
have heard them all.
Rev. Gibson: No Sir, what you didn't hear was, we did just what
you are saying we phouldn't do. 3 U
SEP 11 1974
I Wet flaying that we should have kept that Physician under the
preeeure and we should have kept him in limbo just like we are keeping
all the Others.
Mayor Ferre: Well, we might come back to hilt.
Rev. Gibson: He left here thinking he was scot free Man.
Mayor Ferrer Let me tell you why I voted for him. It was as I
remember, $120,000 and it was the same amount as last year.
Mrs. Gordon: Plus 10%.
Mayor Ferrer Plus 10% naturally.
Mr. Plummer: It's included somewhere else.
Mayor Ferre: Now the point I an making here is, let me be specific
Mr. Jones. I am going over the adopted budget, not what the revised
current budget is and the adopted budget last year for your department
was 8,385,000. The adopted budget, not the revised the way we ended
up figure. What we said wale the realistic figure and the actual.
will obviously be much hightar because it was revised. If you go back
over the last 3 years, you go from 7.7 million to 8.6 million.'
Now to 9.176 million. The point I am trying to make is specifically
over this year, it is an increase of a million seven hundred and
fifty six. I am talking about the Manager's recommended budget
estimate against the adopted budget for last year which is a 20.9%
increase. If you want to go over the realistic figure -
You mean the difference between 86.36 and 92.35?
Mr. Plummer: No no, 91.76.
Mayor Ferre: No it's less than that. Its about $500,000.
Mr. Plummer? How did we end up with the figures of the Sanitation
Dept. this year. Mr. Jones we are not picking on you sir, but we
are trying to get mechanics I think worked out. If you come up
with a realistic figure Mr. Mayor adding this year adding what is
recommended by the Manager the 1 million dollars for Federal Revenue
60 thousand dollars from Federal Revenue & 718thousand dollars in
increases in pay we are looking at a real figure of 10 million 9.
Mr. Andrews: No sir, Don't confuse budgeting with funding. You are
adding funding and budgeting together. This is the budget how we fund
this budget is another matter we are saying we are going to take a
million dollars from Federal Revenue Sharing Funds to assist in the
funding of the 91.76.
Mr. Plummer: I will accept that. We are still looking at a 10 million
dollar budget.
Mayor Ferre: What he is saying is that you are adding that part of that
6 million dollar figure 718 thousand is what we know right nowis going
to be part of that budget.that doesn't reflect here in the budget but
in somewhere else.
Mayor Ferre: No question about it.
Mr. Plummer: Now two items that I:want you to speak to and I'll let
the Mayor get bank to you. #1 your increases in pay are there but
you show 16 less employees over all. The 1 million dollars I want you
to go into for this Transfer Station at 20th St.and then Mr. Mayor I
got a nice proposal to make for you on this Transfer Station.
3_
i4r. Jotted: First of all the 20th Street Incinerator is scheduled to
be shut down by April of 1975 this is the date that most of the state
poll ution control board has set and the county pollution control
board has set because it does not led to air pollution standards.
The transfer station will be built and operated by Dade County is
scheduled to be built on the same site or by that time, however a
contract is not been let. This may not occur but we feel that it
will be built sometime doing the year, paid by Dade County. When this
transfer station is completed then the City of Miami incinerator will
be abandoned and we would bring all of our solid waste to this transfer
station, however we would have to pay a fee of so much per ton to bring
our garbage and trash in this transfer station. I had estimated based
somewhat on previous requests that the County had when they put out a
bid on the transfer station that this would be 4 dollars per ton and
this is the savings between that and the present incinerator budget that
we would have.
Mayor Ferre: It would be a savings to us, a net savings.
Mr. Andrews: That's why it was moved over from Federal Revenue Sharing.
It's the difference between the cost of operating the incinerator the
fees we would have to pay we would end up saving a million dollars.
I was tbuthful that the incinerator would not be finished by April. It
was foolish to cut it any more thF,.rr that. We move one million dollars
over into Federal Revenue Sharing =F it were a one time expenditure
Mr. Plummer: Agreed, but I don't disagree tell me how we get t savings
that cost us a million dollars?
Mr. Andrews: No this is real simple if we operate this entire year with
the entire incinerator in place it is going to cost us $1,600.000.00
next year the year after this budget year we won't operate the incinerator
any more. We will 600 thousand dollars in fees and that's all and we
won't have a million dollar reoccuring cost.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute, you are not telling me about the incinerator
the 114 positions that are going to be abandoned.
Mr. Andrews: We are going to vacate those positions and those people will
be absorbed in other, places in the city government.
Mr. Plummer: That's a savings to his department. 114 thousands roughly
represent what?
Mr. Andrews: The total savings to the department will be 1 million dollars
The positions and the total operations that those 114 positions occupy and
all the other costs of attenting to it is 1.6 million. We are now operating
and it cost us $1,600.000 we have 114 people, at the end of this year we
will change our whole operation. We will start phasing now the number
of people as they vacate we won't fill those positions. Let's assume
that we got 90 people or so that we have to find positions for at Parks
& Recreations, Pubic Works and in Mr. Jones own Sanitation Dept. where
they will be moved over into vacancies, then we have a million dollars
expenditures so I took that million dollars following the philosophy
that you have set for the Revenue Sharing Fund and it's only a 1 year
cost after that we won't have that expense against the Federal Revenue
Sharing Funds. We would have saved a million dollars.
Mr. Plummer: The other point that I asked you to speak to is that your
total cost in dollars is up, but you are down 16 employees.
Mr. Jones: Well actually I feel we have a real tight budget here. The
increase in cost is due to employee benefits that have taken place in
the last year. Well this is the only thing that can be this year, be-
cause the last two or three years we have not changed our services that
much.
:3
SEP 1 1 1974
•
We might have a slight increase in some Of our commodities because of
the increase in prices, but other than that employees benefits are
going up and increases in prices. We have not added anything.
Mr Plumbers No you have deleted 16 employees. I am asking what are
you doing with 16 less employees?
Mr. donee: Well, if you will recall we recently changed our commercial
collections to where We will eliminated daily service and we only collect
only twice a week. Not only in the downtown area, but all over. We were
able to eliminate 5 routes in doing this which meant a decrease of 15
employees.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Jones, I will get to one other point sir, and may-
be I shouldn't preclude the Mayor. If we cut your budget by 5 to 8%
what's going to give?
Mayor Ferre: Paul, give me a formula based on 5%.
Mr. Andrews: I think it's fair for me to participate with you in this
and I would like the whole Commission to come to some conclusion as to
the aWjectives you are attending to reach whether you cut this budget
5% or 10%. When I have supplied to u with the budget it's depending on
Federal Revenue Sharing. I will admit, but we struggle pretty hard to
submit a budget to you theycalls for no tax increase including debt
service which other governmental ---
Mayor Ferre: I am going to make it a little hard for you Paul, and
justify this whole thing not for the exercise of it, but for the
effectiveness of the final resort. I am not stating how I am going
to vote at this_time yet. I think it's important that we go through
a process under a lot of scrutiny, pressure and spotlights on it.
That's all this is.
Mr. Andrews: I think we should ask each department and myself,
participation to evaluate is if we remove 5% from a particular
budget and if that's a kind of general formula that later you
will adopt prior to what is'important, and as to what is not.
I think that what you should be asking this department 'director
is what function can he eliminate for 94.
Mr. Plummer: I think we would even have to go futher than that unless
the director comes up, which I don't think they can. With a reduction
employees that 5% is almost going to be directed toward the non pay
roll items. If we were to say that you got 400 thousand dollars less
than what this showed, then what is it you are going to have to do to
cut off 400 thousand dollars?
Mr. Andrews: It's hard for me to answer. Until the commission makes the
decision collectively, ----you are going to apply this to police and
fire and every department, as we go through it.
Mr. Plummer: I have made my statement against Police and Fire.
Mayor Ferre: I am asking questions, not making statements.
Mr. Andrews: Until the commission makes a decision collectively.
At this point information on which to make some decisions. I want
to put the pressure on him obviously and on you. What would happen
if this budget was cut by 400 thousand dollars.
Mr. Plummer : I want you to tell me that we are going to reduce services
somewhere along the line that's what we are going to get to the
---
a:3 SEP1t1974
ratty gritty of this society. Something is going to have to go some -
Where. some place, maybe, we don't know yet, tuet assume it for now
and I think it's important that we go through this exercise and
understanding that we got spot lights on you and we want to lift all
the atones and see what's under it. Mr. Mayor in fairness to Mr. Jones
which we seem to be picking on --- in fairness to him I would like to
see this commission go into lunch at this time and give him some time
to think about it, because all the rest of them are sitting back there
with their paper and pencil. He should have the opportunity to come
back to give us some intelligent answer where that 400 thousand would
be cut.
Mac. Andrews: I seriously doubt that you would want to put Mr. Jones
in that position. I think that what you should do is hear each budget
and come to some formulation as to what you want to achieve and give
us a little more time an hour or so to do -- He is looking at his
entire budget to come to the'commission with something.
Mayor Ferret Mr. Andrews, let me make this statement at this juncture
that you haven't made,and I think this is probably the time to do it.
Let's talk about charter and philosophy. You run this city and your
staff, the department head. We are policy makers, we legislators, we
legislate, now this is the warm time during the year that the law
permits us to get involved in the administration of the city, which
is the only time during the year that we get into the administration.
Since the people of Miami _elect us we have elections every two years .
The two things that people are concerned with service and taxes and I
know we always end up and everybody wants increase in service and reduce
taxes. The decision finally, falls in this board right here and it
varies from year to year.
Mr. Andrews: I understand and appreciate that and to elaborate
alittle bit more the people of Miami expect a level of services from
its government. ' The City Commission has to have information available
as to how the city's revenues are spent and what services are provided
and to make the determination as to where best to spend those cities
money based on --
Mayor Ferre: I think that it is important that we all go through
this exercise and I am in no way permitting and I don't think anybody
else is as to what I am going to end up doing. I just want to go through
this exercise for all of our benefits. Listen its twelve o'clook.
Mr. Andrews: May I suggest that rather than have Mr. Jones come back
that we have another department and we'll come back and have all of the
the departments come back and present their findings based on this
formulation with the understanding that we are going to be asking how
can we cut 100 thousand when we got 200 thousand?
Mayor Ferre: We agreed the next budget hearing will convene at 2:00
p.m. Gentlemen we are back in session and at this time Mr. Andrews
as I understand we are not going to get into the building because
Chief Garmire may be needed elsewhere at another meeting. I was hoping
if you are going to continue with this process that you call on him
first then with building. Does anyone have any objections?
Mr. Plummer: Mayor I don't have any objections to that as per say,
but I do have an objection to continuing these hearings under what
I would perfer to going around in circles without derivingat any answers-
Mr. Mayor based on your premises which I don't disagree with as far as
the effort being made to try to come within the budget spending as d
last year. I think that we are placing a tremendous disadvantage on
department heads and the administration, but I think this commission
should go on record of what we want the Manager to achieve in reduction
SEP 11 1974
and rather than us pin point in each individual department head,let
the Mana§er go,and whittle down in those areas he feel,he can whittle
then we will have a more realistic picture. I think as we saw here
thin morning. We looked at Mr. Jones and we said'ok now what'a
going to give if you have to give up 400 thousand dollars? Mr. Jones
was at a loss, and I am sure we are going to get the same thing from
each other division head or department head until these people have
had the opportunity to sit down :with the Manager keeping in mind that
they are limited in the scope of just their operation and where the
Manager have to be confronted with the whole operation. I think in
fairness we have got to give the opportunity to the Manager. After
direction and then we can go from there, now that's just my thoughts
on the matter.
Father Gibson: What's wrong with hearings all these men so that we
don't use up this man hour ? We then say to the Manager we want to
consider the possibility of X number of dollars. Let's assume that
he knows more about the general workings than we do. He would know
whether if you cut this off c:ver that it destroys the programm.
Mr. Plummer: Father, I am here the afternoon. I don't care. The
only thing I am saying is when you come and let's use the Police
Budget because that's what we are speaking of.
Mayor Ferre: We could go on fifteen minutes back and forth. Let's
put it a vote very quickly . I just want to make a quick statement
and Rose if you want to make one, then let's just get on with it.
The budget process is a process of education. Your are educated by
reading the books and by chenging and rewriting and re -reading it.
discussing it and their is ro way to get around it. My advice this
morning and unfortunately Ididn't follow it. Stop talking so much
and listen today and we are going to have to do it whether it is today
or tomorrow or the next day. Whether or not we come back we have to
go through a process of education in listening. My advice let's go
three of four hours today and get that four hours behind us, because
otherwise what going to happen we are going to end up here in the end
of September and having night meetings until midnight.
Father Gibson: Mr. Mayor, may I move that you say that we move that
we hear the department heads?
Mayor Ferre: Fine, we don't need a motion for that.
Mr. Plummer: I with draw my objections, but I say to you that we are
on the wrong premise Father. We are going to hear them based on a
set of figures in this book that appears cleariy as an estimate.
Mayor Ferre: J.L. I didn't sit through budget hearings with you ever
in the past, but let me tell you that three budget hearings I went
through, I remember Chief Headly coming back again and again and again.
I don't know how you guys handle it, but when I am around if I have any
thing to do with it, it's not going to go that way. We are really going
to know this budget by the time we are through with it. The department
heads are going to know that we know this budget. We got a long process
ahead of us and I think we better get going with it. that's my advice..
Rose Gordon: The only thing I want to say, There is a question that
arrises,we ask a question and don't make long statements.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, If you have to ask questions, that's all right as
long as their are no half hours answers.
Chief Garmire: I'll address myself, Ladies & Gentlemen, this afternoon
as to the budget hearing as has been requested by the City Manager's
office and how it affects the divisions and sections of the Police Dept.
2 will invite your attention first, to the operations of the Div.
bf the Dept. which is by fsr overwhelming the one that is identified
by field operations, the one that is manifest by virtue of patrol
care, criminal investigations, and those functions which are most
readily identified with Police Service. This is broken down into
more detail of course,then their is in your budget manual. As we
go along, if their is any questions I will most certainly try to
answer them? The operations office of course, is the overall direction
directing office of the division of operations. In essence we have
asked for additional 5 people there and the total cost of the operation
of this particular office is $331 thousand 897 dollars. The work
objective is to coordinate the efforts of the sworn personnel to insure
law enforcement and calls for services which we receive and try to
give the desired response to those calls. The additional cost in this
particular office is 297 thousand and 917 dollars. The two sections of
pattol, rather three sections of the operations office consists of patrol
criminal investigations, and traffic, their again the largest patrol
section and is composed of 451 people, actually you will find that we
Haven't asked for additional personnel in there.
Mayor Ferre: Chief, let me ask you if you would 'like for us to ask
you these to the point questions as you go along or do you want us to
save them for the end?
Chief Garmire: Either way would be all right. Probably as we go along
would be best.
Mayor Ferre: Back in operations office, let me ask you, your objectives
as I remember was to try to get sworn officersout of the office and try
to get civilian to replace them as much as possible, is that in the
operation's office ?
Chief Garmire: Yea.
Mayor Ferre: I see for example, their is still nine police officers,
just a yes or no type of question. Can that be changed ? Can we substitute
civilians in here?
Chief Garmire: I can explain their function. I think from their you
can understand. Two of theep are supervisors and public znrface aids .
lane of the -lieutenants is the overall commander of that uk-0, by virtue
of explanation these young people are the ones in our threshold programm
who have done although they have ----
Mayor Ferre: Chief, I really don't know what you are talking about.
A yes or no question.
Chief Garmire: We need them.
Mayor Ferro: They got to be officers?
Chief Garmire: Yes sir: These people are performing functions that
in our opinion only Police officers can adequately perform. The over:.all
function of course as I said before is to provide the effective and
efficient of crime prevention, law enforcement and community service
within the expeditions of the community. We have a limited number of
of civilian personnel by far the largest, we have 361 Police Officers
assigned to that unit. We were allowed 361 of which,in addition to that
we have 56 sergeants, 18 lieutenants, 4 captains, and 1 maior. The
total cost operating for our current time is $8,126,672,000. The total
budget which we are requesting for this particular sectional operation
is $6,780,080.70. That's explained the right side of the #2 sheet that I
gave you. On this chart of course, is a reproduction. Assigned to this
particular function are a 136 automobiles, 4 wagons, 18-3 wheel motor-
cycles, 14-3 wheel motor scooters, and 1 mounted patrol truck. This truck
36 SEP 11 1974
is used te-transpOrt horsed back and forth.
Mayor Ferret Chief, let me a::k you something, this $6,780.080.70 does
that include that 10% increase?
Chief Garmire: No sir.
Mayor Ferre: Is that Employee cost?
Chief Garmire: Yes, Fringes and all the others are carried separately
in the budget hnd addition to t1at. You got Group Hospitali::ation,
Pension, so it isn't really 6 million when you get down to it.
Mr. Plummer: When this budget is presented to us it should be realistic
Chief Garmire: The Patrol section, therefore, the total cost as budgeted
and the Police budget which is $6,780,080.70 of which as I pointed out
$6,126,672,000 for personal services a balance being in the column to
the right which gives you the cost of the operation of these units outside
of the personal services. The next section is traffic. The traffic section
is to insure the vrel`iible and traffic moves as effectively and expeditious
as safely as possible, that's our basic operation, and the function. Our
current personnel consists of 77 which remains constant in the next year's
requested budget. The cost of that personnel is $1,142,213.00. The total
cost for this section's operation is $1,194,111.00, it has 16 automobiles,
assigned to it and 42 wheel motorcycles, it's broken down with 47 thousand
980 dollars in motor pools cost, in the operation of our vechiles and the
non personnel cost would be 39 hundred and 18 dollars basically it con-
sists of point control which we have 19 point control officers then we
have total of 41 special en!`orcement people consisting of motorcycles
and the accident investigation unit. The next section in the operation
division is criminal investigation section, this consists of a current
147 people. We have requested an additional number of people and we were
given 5 additional people, in the position of Typist -Clerk II, that
increases our personnel from 147 to 152.in the criminal investigation
section. The work objective,of course,is to investigate the ledge
criminal offenses, to identify,fierpetrators, to assimilate information to
facilitate the apprehension and gather and present evidence to
warn the prosecution and convict them in court. The total cost of this
section is $2,548,502.00. The motor pool cost here again is 146 thousand
938 dollars operating 44 motor vehicles.
Mayor Ferre: Chief,let me ask you a question about motor vehicles, Do
you take the total cost or just divide it on a portion. --
Chief Garmire: It's an anticipated cost based on experience of what we
proposed what we will be driving next year. When this cost is assigned
for the year the Police Dept. has to work against this cost based on
the cost of Maintenance Insurance, fuel cost,repairs, placement of
This is an accounting practice, it's an estimate.
Mayor Ferre: Does this also obvious includes garage, people, mechanics
etc.,? It doss not include the 10% or the fringes.
Chief Garmire: The cost of that service is included when the 10% is added
to the garage mechanic salary. It will be added when we proceed through
the year. --
Mayor Ferre: If it's costing you 20 cents per mile, let's just use
that as a figure, and you say X number of miles, 40 cars and there-
fore motor pool cost of$146,000.00, does that include Plumber's 10%
figure and is that fringe benefits of the people that work in the
garages, maintenance.
Chief Garmire: It would include all of the fringe benefits less the 10%
because that's carried in a separate budget.
37 SEP 11 1974
1
Mayor ?erre: It does include the Tinge benefits at 30% faetor?
Chief Garmire: Yes, we're using 23% now, but it will be higher
01111.4.01.0.11.0.1
Mayor F'erre: it included on the right side but not on the left,
you just told rye that it does include it.
Chief Garmire: It doesn't include it on the right side either,
as far as the 10% is concerned, but it does on the fringes, because
it's a distributive cost here.
Mayor Ferre: On the personnel side of these presentation there are
no fringe benefits included. If you are talking about employee
fringe benefits, no it does not include the emrioyee, the mechanic
fringe benefits are not included here. This is scrne9 ing we all.
have to understand, we are not talking about 21 million dollars for
this department, 1 am not trying to say that you are misleading
us Chief, please don't misunderstand. I am trying to say this is
21million plus 230 thousand plus 60 thousand plus 146-- I want to
xepeat it as i4 affects this, what we are really talking about is
actually 3 million dollar budget not 2h million.
Chief Garmire: Mr. Mayor, I draw your attention to page 79 of the
budget and the break down of page 79 appears on 80 and 81. I think
that will answer all of your questions. It will tell you exactually
that this budget is not a factual picture as it relates to the indiv-
idual depam.-ents.
Mr. Andrews: I'n fairness Mr. Mayor you ire leveling critisms here
as far factu:ineL.s of this budget when these budgets have been present-
ed the Commission for many years as I have been associated with the
city and in this particular budget we are making an effort and it's
clearly described in the budget message to try to develope those exact
cost centers so that we can get this kind of information.
Mayor Ferre: I am not advising you personally, and I want to go on record
as saying that and if Plummer wants to make a statement that's fine, but
I don't speakfor him, I would assume that this is not a personal critism.
Mr. Plummer: In no way, Mr. Mayor, just because it's been done for years
if you want to stipulate for the record its been done wrong for years. I
remember last year you told me one of the things you wanted to do for this
year was restructure the budget. We haven't had the time, you haven't
had the time after all of these pressures and we haven't had the money to
go in and do these things professionally and scientifically, therefore,
we are one more time as I told Mr. Reese back in 67,68, & 69, one more
example of our God --Awful structure budget which is not dishonest, which
is not bad, it really takes a tremendous amount of budgetary ability to
have to follow and you would have to understand the impact of it. You
would have to be turning pages and dividing and using slide rulers and
making numbers.
Mrs. Gordon: May I make a comment Mr. Mayor in defense of the position
and the way it's structured. If we should say we don't want to grant
this 10% and additional benefits. then you would have to take another
toute and resub -- We didn't accept the 10% yet, and when we do it
would be automatically added to it. Is that correct?
Mayor Ferre: Well, that's a point. but that's not my poiht. My point
is the mechanically structure of the budget which makes it very complic-
ated to follow becuase of the all these ramifications. I hate to use
the example of Metro. Metro doesn't follow this format does it?
38 SEP 11 1974
Mr. Andrews, I think they have changed it in the last few yearn.
Mr. Andrews: to fairness, 1 am not that well aquainted with this
particular dociment, but in prior years they follow the same format.
Mayor 'erLe: o, they have changed it. They follow the state
guidelines.
Chief Garmire: I want to indicate on page 11 in the budget message
that I particnlarly pointed out to the Commissioner that the format
is designed to emphasize a program for formance type of budget. It
is most important to be able to identify the City's Municiple delivery
service by programs and cost centers. I fully realize that the Comthission
can't come to a conclusion on the particular cost of service and make
the kind of policy decisions that you have to make later on as to whether
you are going to eliminate, reduce so far the service without knowing
the full cost Of the city government. Those charts were the very
sections of the operations division, the other large division within the
department is the administration division which of course is headed by
an Asst. Chief of office who was here today and his office involves a
budget of 89 t•ionsand 184 dollars for personnel. The total budget of
94 thousand 324 dollars. Their are two cars assigned to this office
thevi is one Asst. Chief and the motor pool cost here is $15 hundred
and forty dollars. The objective of this office is to provide the
departmental personnel with management and technical assistance. It's
broken down into a number of sections,first of which I would like to
address is servicing. The services is to a section work objective
of course to assemble and allocate stamps services according to support
division objectives and provide specific technical skills and equipment
in the storage of facilities. Their are currently 145 people assigned
to this section. The request is that it be upgraded by 14 people, 169
basically thosd increases concern Typist -Clerk II's which we have asked
for additionai'13. we have been granted so far through our request. Two
additional custodians, 5 additional communications clerk, 5 additional
property cust.oclians, 5 additional identification technicianslthose are
the men that are outon the street assisting and supporting the line
officers and one additional technician supervisor which we call the
NE Teahnician II, 5 additional communication operators have been allowed
that in essence is the total number of people raising it from 145 to
169. The proposed budget is $1.895.740.00 with the total budget being
$2.197.485.00. Our motor pool cost here is $9,240.00 operating 6 cars
and 1 auto pound truck. The next is resource develop. The objective
of this particular section of the administrative division is to assemble
and allocate the staff services according to support division objective.
and this case we have currently 85 people in this area. We have received
additional 6 people. We have 6 clerk II's and we are asking for 2 clerk
III's this would be an addition of 2 people in that area. 2 additional
key punch operator #1, 1 computer operator II. that's the extent of it.
Mr. Plummer.: Chief, Are any of the people that you are showing in this
budget hearing paid for by Federal Grants? I am not saying in this
particular gramm here, but I am saying in the entire 1 thousand and
49 of those personnel how many of those are paid for under special grants?
Chief Garmire Public service aids we have 41 this is our total department.
Mr. Plummer: Is this above the 1 thousand and 49 that we have in our
budget book or is this included in the 1 thousand and 49?
Chief Garmire: The 1 thousand and 49 you have in your book are those
which are requested in out of regular budgeted funds and not out of
Federal grants.
Mr. Plummer: The answer would be that none of the thousand and 49 would
39 SEP 111974
be paid for from a grant.
Chief Garmire: That's correct.. Next question.
Mr. Anirv-s : May I add something to that a portion of these people
who are budgeted through regular funds might be used as in house
cost to administer grants. Do you understand what I am saying?
Chief Garmire: There are a number of people
Mr. Plummer: You know the next question I am getting ready to ask
if the Mayor will let me. is what did we receive beyond last year's
budget at the amount of 14.8 in Federal grants. how much money in
the Police Dept. were they the recipients of in total of Federal Grants?
Chief Garmire: Approximately 800 thousand dollars. Internal Review
is that section which operates, of course out of the department is a
very critical function of the department consisting of basically two
functions to ensure the proper functions of the Police Dept. personnel
investigation of various complaints we might receive as well a.3 others
from within the department from the public and from outside the depart-
ment and other areas. also it's called upon to investigate and check
to see about the compliance to our regulations general operations with-
in the department trying to keep compliance to the SOP's and the excepted
standard procedures. This consists of currently 9 people. There will
be no increase in it next year. The personnel cost of this section
156.771.00 for the total budget of $167,271.00 they operate 5 automobiles
for the motor pool cost of 6 thousand 160 dollars, the personnel cost
requested for next year are 4 thousand 340 dollars. The special
investigation section. This is to conduct investigations and to organize
criminal elements within the departments, also require to conduct the
narcotics and vice investigations and do those things which are so
necessary not only to support the rest of the departments. but to take
the infinitive and indicated action whenever it is indicated. We
currently have 34 people assigned to this section. No additional people
are centemplated.It remains at 34. The total cost of this is 522
thousand and 849 dollars,for personal services the total budget is
579 thousand 917 dollars operating 4 automobiles, 1 truck and 1 van.
OUr motor pool cost here is 9 thousand 240 dollars basically it has
14 narcotics and vice agents.6 strategic information men, 3 narootis
and vice sergeants and 3 strategicinformation sergeants. We have 1
narcotics and vice lieutenant and 1 strategic information lieutenant
with 1 captain and 1 major assigned to this unit.or section. The next
is the community relations section. We currently have 26 people assigned.
We contemplate having 26 people next year. The cost is 380 thousand
115 dollars with a gross cost of 388.380 it operates 3 automobiles and
1 van. Motor pool costs are 6 thousand 160 dollars. We are currently
assigning 3 clerical personnel. We have 1 publicity writer, 11 school
resource officers, 2 community inter -action officers and 2 publice
information officers. We have 2 sergeants in the school resource
programm, 2 in the community inter -action. and 1 in the public
information area. addition to that it has an assistant section
commander and a section commander. The last one and some people
think the lest. The office of the Chief of Police. The programm that
have been requested and received next year. we have 14 people this
year assigned to the office of the Chief of Police. and fifteen
requested in next year. The increase comes in three SRI positions
which stands for Research Institute Recommendations. Cutting out
two programs specialist for a net of 1 additional person. The cost
of this is 268 thousand 195 dollars. We operate 3 automobiles out of
the office motor pools cost 46 hundred and 20 dollars with a total
budget of 336 thousand 583 dollars. There is a current request of
63 thousand 768 dollars for non personnel cost in the office.
Mr. Plummer: The assistant City Attorney, why is it that under the
law department budget?
40
SEP 11 1974
Chief Garmire! We have a reciprocal agreement with the law
departMent whether it's a transfer of funds to pay for the
attorney who is assigned to my Office by the City Attorney.
Mr. Plummer: Ok.
Chief Garmire: We carry the salary in our budget, but their is
a transfer of funds forwarded.
Mr. Andrews: Well, it's more than accounting procedure. in fact
if we are ever going to arrive at the cost of these various
functions then even though those persons directory responsible
for Mr. Lloyd the cost is there and he is there on a full time
basis so the person should be budgeted there so the dollar
would show up as an expenditure.
Rev. Gibson: Chief, You said the last people think perhaps. oh I
see; You are following the advisory position hoping that that's
going to get you through. the last of your first and your first
shall be last.
Chief Garmire: Mr. Andrews, a question to you sir. based on what
the Mayor said before realistically we are then looking at a
budget of the Police Dept. of 17 million 675 thousand 688 dollars
plus. Am I out of character?
Mr. Andrews: No you would have to add 1 million 460 or 70 thousand
dollars to the personnel cost and then total it up.
Chief Garmire: That's what I did. So the budget at the Police Dept.
for Fy75 is 17 million 675 thousand 688 dollars plus.more fringe benefits
then you are going to let us know percentage wise what the fringe
benefits is? We can take the cost of living increase at 10% and get
that figure easy.
Mr. Andrews: Well you see. I can give you an average one or we can
spend more time. Well there is a real critical error here the city
spends approximately a thousand dollars for employees. if you point
everything employee pension to the employees. As far as general
employees are concerned they spend about 400 thousand dollars for
employees for the Police and Fire Dept.are concerned: If you just
take an average then you average that out by a total of amount of
money that we spend on pension and take all the employees and get
an average figure. We have been doing that in the past. but if we
are going to get down to accurate accounting which we want then you
have to do it. but as I was commenting with Mr. Plummer as I was
leaving here I would like to do that but that takes more Manpower
or it computerization.
Mr. Plummer: That's the better way to do this.
Mayor Ferre: Now let me ask you this, there is three to four million
dollars that has to be added, not pre convention loans.
Mr. Andrews: Yes sir,the requirement this coming year for all of the
cost in the system is about 5 million plus dollars. The total pension
program is divided into the planning assistance. Police and Fire
are in the system all of the rest of the employees are in the plan.
There is a very few people in the system that are general employees.
The cost of that distributed would have to be over 5 thousand dollars
Mr. Plummer: Let me ask a little more realistic question.Mr. Andrews?
To the figure I just arrived at 17 million 756 thousand to that what
figure do we have to add to fringe benefits?
Mr. Andrews; As far as this budget alone?
41 SEP 111974
Mr. Plummer: The, thin budget alone.
Mr. Andrews: I'd say about 35% at leaat
Mr. Plummer: h11 right that the 35% of 14.679 sight.
alb al. —
Mt. Andrews: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: I am trying to come up with some figures ---
Mr. Andrews: Eventually it will end up all employees 35% of
the larger figure. As far as the Hospitalization this year
we are going to be expending approximately. in :o and figures
400 dollars per employee might be quite less than that.
Mr. Plummer: No it"s more than that. The total cost of the
City's contribution and the employees contribution is the best
figure I've come up with right now is 538 dollars per employee
per insurance.
Mr. Andrews: Hut the City's portion of that is around 435 or
440.
Mr. Plummer:
Mr. Mayor, I think what he is really trying to tell you is this:
Re is trying to tell you that this year to keep the same policy
with the same benefits that we had last year is it costing an addit-
ional 462 thousand dollars this year plus the new things which they
are trying to apply for which I whole heartly concur with. He has
already put in the budget 350 thousand dollars for that or realistic-
ally we are looking at a total increase over last year for insurance
alone of 800 thousand dollars.
M... Andrews: The total budget only increase by 350 thousand dollars.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Andrews I,call your attention to insurance on page
95 in the first line of reserve of 350 thousand dollars has been led
then sir I call your attention back to page 87 increase required for
this year 426 thousand dollars. if that isn't 800 thousand dollars
I'll buy it. There are three items listed: Employee Insurance; increase
required 426 thousand 545 dollars. on page 95 you have 350 thousand
dollars more.
Mr. Andrews: Will you add this up. take 1 million 128 thousand 455
and add 426 to it and you get 1 million 555 thousand . Of the 426
thousand dollar increase 350 thousand dollars is for the revised
Health Plan so you can't ude both figures.
Mr. Plummer: I am sorry. I stand corrected on that.. but we are still
coming down to an average cost of 538 dollars per policy per employee.
The total cost of the policy is 538 dollars.
Mayor Ferre: If you want to add some more costs to this as long as
you're on this. The city expends approximately 600 dollars per employee
of those employees who are on Social Security. Now th se employees who
are not on Social Security they receive a thousand dollars because the
way the law operates the special act only for the City of Miami based
on insurance policies collected in the City is utilized to pay for that
kind of thing.
Mr. Plummer: Let me ask you a relative question as far as Metro is
concerned. How comparable are these general figures that you are
quoting between the City of Miami and Metro?
42
S E P 111974
Mr. Andrews: t Started an analysis of that Mr. Mayor and 1 find
Out it varies from Pt. Lauderdale which is higher than'the City
of Miami through Municipality in Dade County that are reasonable
close to Metro which is lower.
Mayor Perre: t am not worried about Ft. Lauderdale all right.
From the point of view of Metro how distance it would be.
Mr. Andrews: Well i can give you one parameter. the group insurance
cost which we have just got through quoting at 438. Dade County
board of Public instruction is about 250 dollars. I don't know what
Social Security requirements are for Metro. but I have the one on
group insurance. but the benefits are different,. You have to match
up benefits too. For the pension. Metro is considerable low, because
they Operate on an entirely different system than we do. they operate
through the state system. Mr. Mayor. I am not really that knowledgeable
that I can speak technically in that area.
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Mayor; Some day we are really going to have to get into that.
The commission is going to have to face that sooner or later. I
am afraid that we know about it but it's such a complicated thing
except on fringes of it.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I am not being i°unny when I say this sir.
there is a announcer on Channel 4 who gives the results of the
stock market and when he finishes his last statement is Information
is the name of the game and that's what this is all about. We have
got to have the information, in order to have the information there
is so much involved you have to have a body of people to produce that
kind of information and we really just haven't had the resources to
do that.
Mayor Ferre: How much money are we talking about between pension cost
group hospitalization insurance and other fringe benefits. Let me give
you some figures and I will give them to you rather accurately . The
payroll entire budget less street lighting less debt service. those
two items taken out of the 85 million leaves the 72 million dollar
budget.65 million dollars of that is personnel cost. All of the costs
contributed to personnel other than pay would amount to 15 million
dollars. In other words 50 million dollars is for direct pay, in
round figures 50 million dollars in basic pay and 15 million dollars
in fringe benefits.
Mr. Plummer: Well I tell you if all your figures are correct friend.
we are going to be in serious trouble, because on the valuation put
out by Kruse he is basing next year's pension fund on 45 million
184 thousand 320 dollars and he is 5 million dollars shirred so
somewhere somebody is out of bid here.
Mr. Mayor: Well, this includes the 10% cost of living, you have
to have that in consideration.41/2 million dollars. so you are back
to the 45 million.
Chief Garmire: Mr. Mayor I might make one statement. I think each
of you had had delivered to you a small booklet which we had prepared
for your edification we entitled it the Miami Police Dept. Budget's
for the report. We endeavored to explain the functions in detail
and compare some statistics of every section and every unit of the
Police Dept. I believe this will answer many of the questions so far
as the overall operations of each of these sections and units of the
department.
S E P 11 1974
I did this for the purioee of attempting to equip you with
additional information prior to these hearings.
Mr. Plummer: When you.come back Chief.
Mayor Ferre: Chief, you've, got 40 additional men that you requested
Of the 40. 18 are clerks. You got 6"X.D. 'rechniciane, 5 communication
opeirators. 3 key punch operators. 3 SRI personnel.
Chief Garmire: Yes.
Mr. Mayor: Now. I've got two questions based on these figures.
One. when we increase the budget by 750 thousand dollars or whatever
it was.back in November or December. One of the things you were going
to do was add some additional people. There was 18 men involved as
I recalled that were in a special programm. training programm or some
kind. Those were the people that were going out to the field and the
intend was crime was going up and you needed more people out and you
yourself felt that you needed more Policemen out on the street. and
this was a way to do that quicker than any other way.
Chief Garmire: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: Now, my question based on that is one,was that accomplish-
ed, two,will these 40 people accomplish this? If so where is it
reflected in all of this? In other words by adding 40 clerks and
communications operator and key pjnch people are we going to end up
with 30 additional Policemen?
Chief Garmire: No we will not end up with that many. These people
are to provide the services that are needed to back up these men
and make them more efficient in the field and enable them to do a
much better job,. for example. I would invite your attention to the
services section which I think can best describe what I am talking
about. Here we have asked for in additional 5 communications clerks.
this communications unit of course is the one that receives all the
complaints all the calls for service from the field anywhere in this
city. These people are going to enable us to more quickly process
these things and then we have an additional communications operator
staff of 5 people this will then enable us to take these complaints
and keep all of our communications channels open at all times which
will enable us delivery service better out in the fields conversely
if our people get into trouble in either system we will have all the
channels covered and we can afford them without a system much more
readily. Currently we are always frequently down one or more channels
and this puts an undue load on one operator for not able to process
these things near as expeditious as we should be. In addition to that
we are asking for and have been granted 5 additional I.D. Technicians
Now these are the people who go out and process the crimes scences.
This is an intangible thing but in the appreciable relief of patrol
officer duty hours appeal service hours will be gained by the
addition of theSe people, because we will be able to assign them
to the crime scene for the purpose of collecting the necessary
evidence, releasingthe Police Officer back to service so he can
go on and attend to other calls for service or criminal calls or
whatever they might be.
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you this question. as I count here you
have 40 people , now you multiply 40 X 10 thousand dollars is
400 and then you multiply 20 thousand dollars is 800., the difference
in payroll is 13 million 327 to 14 million 6 the way I count
is 1 million 350 . A million 350 divided by 40 is over 30.000 dollars
per person. isn't that a little bit high?
Chief Garmire: That doesn't include fringes. salary increase.
and the 10%. Your'e speaking about the difference and I want to
A I?
SEP 111974
help the Chief in this beeuate again
Mayor Ferre: You're talking about the 13 million 327 verses
the 14 million 679 are you not?
Chief Garmire: Yes.well inaddition to the 41 people you must
remember that the 5% that was granted last year was for the 9
months and while the revised budget shows that increase in
'13. 6 74 for a nine month period . This new budget picks up that
5% for a full year so there was an additional increase of a
quarter of a year salary in there.
Mr. Andrews: Thats one matter. The second matter is that for all
of the people in the department this budget also increases all the
merited increases that they are intitled to in the Civil Service.
The step increases in addition to whatever you might proivde for in
the cost of living, increases.
Mr. Plummer: So likewise they will be intitled to it again this
year. The same merited raises that was granted last year will still
be this will be merited raises granted which will be in addition
to this.
Mr. AndreWe: Yes
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager how much does a Typist I or Typist II
Clerk make average a year? 10 or 11 thousand dollars roughly.
Mr. Andrews: About 7 thousand 73 or something like that.
Mr. Plummer: The most expensive people here are those SRI's
I imagine. they wouldn't make over 20 would they?
Mr. Andrews: They could, but I am not sure.
Mr. Plummer: So would you say that it's fair between the
service their is 18 clerks? Would you say that about 11 or 12
thousand dollars might be a fair figure? With the average of
about 40 people times 40 is about 450 thousand dollars. Is
that about right?
Mr. Andrews: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Now that's the difference between one figure and
the other is 1 million 350 leas 450 is
Mr. Andrews: All right let me show you there is another sum almost
equal to that. If we take 13 million dollars, if we take 12 million
856 dollars the adopted budget and you take 5% of that figure that's
600 and more thousand dollars. 3/4 of that is funded here but the
other quarter which would be about 150 thousand dollars has to be
added over in the final 1974-75 budget. We were equating the impact
of the 5% only granted for 9 months last year on a full year basis
how much it cost to pick up that additional 3/4 of a year.
Mayor Ferre: The difference is 9 months to 12 months, so the
differnce is only 3 months.in the adjusted budget,so it's only
one quarter impact.
Mr. Andrews: That's only about 150 thousand, now you have to go
back in and weigh all of the merit increase for these employees
in the department(all of the employees) those that are entitled
to it. Some of those people may receive as much as 10% increase
Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Others may receive only 5%. 1O% comes about only
•
4;)
S E P 1.1 1974
if a man is 9h years at the beginning of this budget and he gets
into his 10th year and he gets an annual increase, he may also
enjoy a longevity increase.
Mr. Plummer: Let me ask you -one question about the non payroll
cost here which amounts to 1 million and 1/2 dollars. If I were
to go through the exercise Chief. of adding the right side here
would that amount up to 1 million 5?
Chief Garmire: It would be 1 million 528 thousand 127 dollars.
1 would point out to you sir that 888 thousand 127 dollars. 860
thousand of that is motor pool expense.
Mayor Ferre: What are the other costs? What's the other half?
Chief Garmire: The other costs contractual services supplies the
things that are necessary, office equipment, electrical• telephone
eater, fuel, etc.
Mayor Ferre: Do you have a continuance fund in here at all or is
that part of ---?
Chief Garmire: We do not provide a continuancy fund. I wish we
could sir.
Mr. Plummer: I am sitting here playing Bingo. The quicky is when
I sit here and add up all the goodies. I add up 1 million 335 thousand
from Federal Revenue Sharing directly to the Police Dept. We now
look at a realistic figure which is what I have been trying to get all
day of 24 million 147 thousand 638 dollars for this year to operate
the Police Dept. It has nothing to do with the 800 thousand dollars
extra.
Mayor Ferre: Can you tell me what you added up?
Mr. Plummer: Yes sir. I'll be happy to. That includes 16 milli.on
207 thousand 728 which is what you have in the book. 1 million 467
thousand 960 dollars is the 10% pay increase. 5 million 136 thousand
950 is fringe benefits. 35% times the 14679. In the revenue section
400 thousand for school resource officer s,350 thousand for the Police
expansion., 150 thousand for the development of Police recruitment and
promotional exams. and 435 thousand for motor pool replacement which is
97- 24 hours Police vehicles, 2 ten wheel motorcycles, 2 patty wagons.
and 1 service truck, so adding all of those figures together we are
looking at the fact that the Police Dept. this year is costing 24 million
147 thousand 686 dollars.
Mr. Andrews: You have heard me say from time to time that if you took_`
the total cost of Police and Fire those two functions in the City of
Miami and you took all the money that is taxed including that and tax
service it would not cover those two functions,so the people of the
City of Miami are receiving all their other benefits from other sources.
The basic two ingredients of government of Police and Fire ,the taxes
that the people in the City of Miami pay they don't have to worry about
paying for the full cost.
Mayor Ferre: Everything that we do in
publicity, communications,planning all
and the City Manager and everything in
other than tax.
sanitation,finace, the auditors,
your salaries. your elections
finance that comes from sources
Mrs. Gordon: I don't buy that, it's taxes whether they come from the
SEP 111974
rotate or federal governMent ► it' a taxes.
Mr. Plummer: It only took us an hour and twenty minutes Mr. Mayor
to try to derive the figure from one department that I think we
should have from every department and I think we can save an awful
lot of time if we go back to what I said earlier.
Mayor Ferre: Your point is well taken J.L. now let's move on.
Mr. Plummer: Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: Well, the one area Chief, that I have already included
you on and I'll go back and you can ----
Mr. Andrews: Well, going back to this revenue, say 24 million dollars
now that doesn't include the revenue sharing fund or LEA grant or any
other type of grant. What other grants do we get other than LEA grant?
Chief Garmire: We have noise in the Police Dept.
Mr. Andrews: How much do we have in the LEA grants last year?
How much do you figure next year?
Chief Garmire: Approximately 800 thousand dollars.
reduced to by about 150 thousand dollars.
It's going to be
Mr. Andrews: That doesn't include the 370 we got from the monetary
or whatever -- -
Chief Garmire: No sir, that's out of the City Manager's office.
Mr. Andrews: Well, but it affects the Police Dept.
Chief Garmire: Hopefully, yes sir.
Mayor Ferre: If we did not have a Police Dept. , so we can safely
say that we are talking about a 25 million dollar operation and a
way to get that done.
Mr. Plummer: Chief. back in December I asked you what was needed
beyond the 756 thousand dollars for minimum services of what you
needed which time you put forth a budget showing a need for the
remaining six months of the year of 1 million 1 hundred
thousand dollars. =.very vividly recall that there was 155 personnel
involved. I was told at the time that by the Manager don't make
any action on this at this time but intergrate it into the budget and
let's see how we can intergrate it. Now it doesn't take a great
Einstein to figure the difference between 41 employees and 155.
I want you to be able before I vote on your budget to be able to stand
at that pddium and say that we the Commission have met what you
consider to be minimum criterias, standard for your department.
Mayor Ferre: He is not going to do that. You see that he is requesting
18 million 387,there is a difference of 2 million 100 thousand.
Mr. Plummer: He might not need that as minimal criterial standards
in what I am trying to say. I don't know I don't have in my possession
what was denied the Chief in that 2 million dollars. I don't know.
Mr. Andrews: I think that I should answer that rather than the Chief
because I put him in this position. in that I could not recommend the
City Commission at this time that we add those things that the Chief
had wanted in his budget until after we are in the new Police station.
4'7 SEP 11 1974
Until after we have hAd some additional eomputeritation and in,
different communication systems than we have now whatever the
communication department and the police department comes up with
that is part of the total study and modernization of the department.
I couldn't in good conscience come to the Commission and try to find
someway to provide fbr additional personnel without providing the
staff personnel that they need in the police station to make the
performance of those police officers in the highest possible level
and we aren't anywhere near that yet. Just adding more people may
not be the answer. We are not talking about 1 million 100 thousand
dollars, that was 1 million 100 thousand dollars for 6 months. no
fringe benefits so we are talking about 3 million dollars annually.
Mr. Plummer: I understand that.
Mayor Ferre: I am glad that you added that but I am going to ask
you a question anyway. You feel that 40 clerks and key punch operators
are essential. and have agreed upon their increase.
Mr. Andrews: Yes sir. I have come to that conclusion even more in the
last two months since I have spent much more time with that department.
I spent a lot of time with a lot of other departments too.
Mayor Ferre: t can't justify at.this time recommending tothe
Commission that they spend another 21/2 to 2 3/4 million dollars for
police personnel until we have put more of the moderization programm
into effect to see what its results are going to produce before we
add more people.
Mr. Plummer: What you are saying to me is, that you are the one
who is der.ng the Chief what he has said is minimum standard.
Mr. Andrews If you want to put it that bluntly, yes, but that
done with the sense of conscienceness about what the rest of the
cities needs are as well. Sanitation and fire ---
Mayor Ferre: Paul, ---
Mx. Andrews: The answer is yes.
Mayor Ferre: Fine thank you sir.
Mrs. Gordon: I think I've got to say something. Let's face it
you have got to take it from somewhere to put it somewhere else,
and we are telling them right now to cut the budget by 2h million
but then we talk along the line of the 5% decrease in the total
budget, so we have to be willing to stand the heat of raising taxes
or we have to be willing to not put the blame on the shoulder of a
man who has no alternatives that's all there is to it.
Mayor Ferre: Chief so you are leaving on Monday. I heard.
Chief Garmire: Yes Sir I am. I have a very able Asst. here in
the personage of Chief Fox who knows as much about the intimacy
the most workage of this budget.
Mayor Ferre: Will you be going through the whole process of the
budget procedure.
Chief Garmire: There is good probability of it.
Mrs. Gordon: We have a meeting scheduled for a special hearing for
Coconut Grove on the 19th. Is that right? Would we possible consider
conventkng here around 1 o'clock?
Mr. Andrews: Yes you may. Mr. Mayor. members of the committee
you are also going to have to come to some kind of conclusion and
X realize what you are trying to attempt to achieve policy wise as
48 SEP 1. 1974
far as the total approach to this budget so that you don't have to
go beyond certified stillage. but should you make decision that you
need to do that anyway now is the time to set the date for these
potential hearings so that we can seat the scheduling up and advertise
at the proper time. If youldecide that they are not needed we will
just run another ad or something cancelling it,but if we don't do
that we are going to run way into October before we can close that
out. i can tell you how to do that Mr. Mayor, what you do is adopt
an appropriation Ordiance extending the existing OrdiancE' to continue
on an emergency basis for 30 days. We have done this in the past.
Let's say October loth you adopt a final budget,you make it retro-
active as of October lst and it becomes effective.
Mr. Plummer: The other way you put the city commission in a bad
light advertising that we are contemplating a raise.
Mr. Andrews: But we are not.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, we have to advertise anyway J.L. so we aren't
going to say advertise a raise -- advertise a budget hearing.
Mr. Plummer: Except the legislature handed down exactly how you
shall word per baiton that ad. We are notifying the public of a
public increase. Let me read it you. The City of Miami proposes
to increase your property taxes there upon a public hearing will
be held on date, and time. That's the ad he talking about.
Mrs. Gordon: That's not exactly right.
Mr. Plummer: But. that's the way the law opalates. see because
they are applying it only to operating millages, not the total.
Mayor Ferre: Let's see if I understand what this is all about.
For us to apply with the state law that's what we are dealing with.
For us to apply with state law if we are going beyond the certified
millage. We must advertise for public hearings, to do. if we do it
today, when is the next time we meet? If we pass it today, when will
the first second -reading be?
Mr. Andrews: Well, actually first the stat .s said that you will
finialize the question which distrubs me so I feel and we prepared
it in this fashion with the budget department that you actually have
to pass your appropriation Ordiancee on an emergency basis because
it says ---
Mayor Ferre: A11 right, that's what I am getting too.
In other words it isn't three votes that you need, you need four votes.
Mr. Andrews: That's right.
Mayor Ferre: When is it that we are going to meet. because I've
got someone in my office waiting, it's not need in keeping her waiting.
We have a lot of talking to do still.
Mrs. Gordon: We haven't heard all of our departments so we are going
to hear fromthem on the 19th , is that it?
Mayor Ferre: We have got Dr. Sheppard to go see on the 19th at 10:00
am and we don't want to miss that. but after that I think we are ought
to get going on that. Mr. Andrews are you recommending any evening
meetings between now and the 19th ?
Mr. Andrews: No I am not, it's up to the Commission if you wish
to have them we will have them as far this budget concerned.
Mayor Ferre: If we call for a public hearing tell us when the
public hearing will be held.
4.3
srP111974
Mayor Ferre: You hear me out Mr. Attorney and see if this won't
work . Let's assume that you meet on the 19th and at the end of
the 19th the assumption you have concluded that you can adopt the
appropriation Ordiance only on first reading. We would advertise
then for the 19th and then have an appropriation Ordiance second
reading three days later. After that's accomplished then we start
witS the two year hearings that are required of the state. We will
advertise in the paper immediately there after seven days after that
we will have to have a 5 o'clock hearing and then we will have to
advertise the second hearing and have to have second public hearing
at 5 o'clock p.m. Chief Garmire is leaving. I assume on vacation
that on Monday and want be back during the budget hearing process
and the point that I am trying to make is that we've got --- No
8ose,look I'll repeat it again. The Monday that Chief Garmire is
leaving on vacation is the1Monday I am talking about. It has nothing
to do with meetings. The point is that he will not be available
to answer what obviously a::e going to be very important and very
crucial and substantial questions. Now we went through a long thing
this morning with Mr. Jones and I point blank said: that I want a
5% cut on that budget. Ok. well I am going to tell the Chief the
same thing right now. The 5% that we are talking about Paul, you
Mrs. Gordon: 5% isn't going to do what you and I was hoping to
bring it down to certified, the certified is going to take the
7%.
Mayor Ferre: Well. that's why I asked them to cone out with a
formula. I came out with a 51% on a rough basis.
Mrs. Gordon: We are going to need special hearings. no matter what.
Mayor Ferre: What I am telling you is that since this budget, ladies
and gentlemen is 90% salaries and employee's cost. When you are talking
about a reduction , you are talking about people. You are talking
about salaries so we cannot get away and that means services. Either
impliedor real. Either pass or proposed. Now here we have a
proposal to add forty-one human beings to the department. For I am
sure are valid reasons, as I am sure Mr. Jones's reasons were valid.
You went through a long process, you accepted them and you are
recommending it after cutting severly, it's obvious._ If we are
going to achieve this fiscal balance that's been talked about. We
are talking about people and I just don't want this to be happening.
You can cut out some expenditures J.L., but not 21/2 million dollars
worth. because it isn't there.
Mr. Plummer: You can bet me.
Mayor Ferre: I bet you are talking about people. I don't want the
Chief coming back from vacation and find something that he wasn't
expecting and if we are going to ask him questions now is the time
to do it.
Mrs. Gordon: The questioh that I would like to be answered
in budget where a personnel are budgeted it's always been a
curiosity to me how many of those positions are not filled
out that third year?
is
through -
Chief Garmire: We have Mrs. Gordon. on a daily basis every single
day that the City government operates through the year we have
roughly 225 vacancies which represent about 8%of the total population
now what we do is we recognize this and rather than inflate the
budget by that amount of money, you'll find in the beginning of the
Jil
S E P 11 1974
eo
budget a figure that is deducted from the budget which is the
identified as anticipated salary surpluses and we remove that.
nearly all of it. We removed it last year and the year before.
Chief Garmire: In other words we dop't have that kind of carry
over. When I first dame up to the Mrnager1s office we had as
much as 6 to 8 million dollars in a fund triSt we could appropriate
from that was accumulation from salary surpluses, three or four
years after the commission appointed a budget review group . Most
ok the people was from the University of M ami and this was one
of the areas that they advised the commission that the city should
not have these kind of contingencies available to them and over the
years the next three or four years that money will depleted down to
the point where we don't have those kind of operating funds anymore
and we went one step further. We went ahead and began to budget
those vacancies and anticipation. I hate to bring up a sore
subject Mr. Mayor but I wonder where you are going to get the
additional million dollars a year when we move into the new police
station.
Mr. Plummer: The manager has calceided that we are looking realistic-
ally in the face at approximately of a million dollars a year more
than what we are looking at today.
Chief Garmire:. He caught me at a moment when I was a little
emotionally about what we were doing and he asked me how much
money I thought it would be and I answered and I.shouldn't
have answered a million dollars and he stuck with that figure
and it's no where near that and I would like to apply you with
the exact amount.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Manager what are the 97 vehicles that were
435 thousand dollars? We just bought all new patrol cars. We
bought all of those little mavericks and what are the 97 that
you are proposing to buy now?
Mr. Andrews: We have approximately 135 patrol vehicles, when
you realize that if you have a good vehicle for the patrolmen
to operate and it operates 7 days a week it takes at least
5 officers operating out of that vehicle on an individual basis.
We spend for those 5 officers and I am not even going to go to
overhead or any thing else, <<t least 50 thousand dollars in basic
salaries no fringe benefits or anything. We spend 33 hundred
dollars for a vehicle and we try to keep it in a police dept.
for two years. When we get down to that last 6 months of those
two years of operation. We've got a bad piece of equipment that
we're depending on our officers to use. This relates to 50
thousand dollars in raw salaries and it's probably closer than
that. 75 thousand dollars if you include everything else. If
you weigh that against the 1500 dollars expenditure for capital
items. I am trying to set a goal for the Police Dept. where we
put brand new vehicles into the police dept.every single year
and this budget as I stated before 90% of the budget is all in
personnel. We need to pay a great deal of attention to the
equipment side of it. With good equipment in the Police Dept:s
hands they will be able to perform if they perform 5% better than
they are now without having break downs in that, we have more than
captured the investment and those 97 vehicles are particular slated
for the Police Dept. where those cars are uded principally on the
24 hour basis.
Chief Garmire: What is the interest generated off the 81 million
dollars of Revenue Sharing money?
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Bailey how much interest was that? I want to
say around 350 thousand dollars. Correct? That's correct. Ok
that's not designated for any particular fund at this time.
51
SEP 11 1974
We have been taking the interest as you recall, taking the interest
and adding into the funds available that you appropriated. You did
that iaat year.
Chief Garmire: But at this stage it's not appropriated.
Mr. Andrews: There Was 350 thousand dollars in earned interest
added to the Federal Revenue Sharing funds. I had forgotten that.
In fairnessthat's probably a conservative estimate it will
probably be a little higher than that. but we didtit want to stick
our necks out too far.
Mr. Plummer: So then, really what you are saying or what you are
trying to tell me which I don't agree with that if the Mayor is
successful in his thinking that people have got to go.
Mr. Andrews: Yes sir, 2 want it on the reccord.
Mr. Plummer: People and service please. Everytime we say people
let's say service please .. We are talking about cutting the services
of the City of Miami.
Mrs. Gordon: Tell me what services is Metro going to cut out. They
directed the Manager to cut the budget. slice the budget. I didn't
say I agree with them, but they are doing it. I didn't hear any of
hollowing about what they are going tc cut. That's our jurisdiction
because we live in Dade County. Let's not kid ourselves that people
are hurting. and I want to tell you about how many houses are going
into the foreclosure this month alone. I understand that it is about
2 thousand houses going into foreclosure this month. People are
hurting. People are hurting they are hurting real bad. and we better
consider all these things when we make our decision on how much we
are going to tax people. you know.
Mayor Ferre: That's right. and that's what we are doing right now.
That's why we are going to have to start cutting. What we are talking
about is cutting people.
Mr. Plummer: But you see -Mt. Mayor. I don't disagree with your
psycnology or Rose's. but what I disagree with is basic. Mr. Mayor
the Police Dept. and the Fire Dept. supply life giving services.the
Manager is the only man that knows the entire scope of the picture,.
that he can say leave the Police and Fire, both alone and if we must
cut let's cut them somewhere else. I think to put him under the gun
and say 5% from him or 2% or 7% . I don't think it's possible for
this man to do this that, it has got to be the Manager,he knows the
whole scope and if you want to put a dirty conation in it , he is the
one that knows where the fat is,he the one who knows what is priority
and he has got to come back before this Commission and say where cuts
can be made.
Mrs. Gordon: I agree with you J.L.. There is no quarrel with you .
I think Mr. Andrews has to tell us where the hard goods is that we
can cut.
Mr. Plummer: Just for the record Chief Fox was the only one here
as I recall last year, Chief Garmire was not here at all last year
for budget. Were you?
Chief Garmire: Yes sir. I was here. I have been available every year.
Chief Fox is well equipped to answer all of your questions.
SEP 111974
Mtn. Plummer: I think really what the Mayor is trying to tell you
is that it takes some cuts, we want to hear you squeal rather than
Fok.
Mayor Ferr'�: accuse me for being on the phone. but I was talking
to a member of the CRB and Chief I think it is very important, I
think very urgent for you to get a hold of Bob Simms and meet with
him this evening before they come here making any statements. They
are drafting a statement right now and I don't like the implications
of this without full discussion with either you or I think it is
important enough for the Manager to get involved into this. I would
recommend that you call him before 5 o'clock.
Chief Garmire: I attempted to do that. They are being contacted.
Mayor Ferre: They are drafting a statement right now and I think it's
important enough that you be involved in answering questions. Where
is a Commission coming down here tomorrow to present that statement.
Chief Garmire: I understand that sir.
Mayor Ferre: Ok.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor do you happen to know where they are meeting
to indicate where they were drafting this statement.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Simms is doing it right at the CRB office's right
now , there is a group of them. The committee is coming here tomorrow.
I will give you the names of the committee. It's from Senior Walsh•
Rev. Elligan. and Mr. R. Ustedes.
Mr. Plummer: I think this man should have fully,aware, Mr. Mayor
before he leaves here just the intent. Is it in fact your intent
to reduce or try to reduce his budget by 5%. If it is I think he
should know it so he can try to give some thought to it.
Mayor Ferre: It certainlymyintent to see that attempted,whether
it can be achieved is another matter. pecause; I don't want us to
be hiding behind catch phrases and I want to make this very clear
that when we are talking about reducing the budget we are talking
about reducing people, and when we talk about reducing people we
are talking about reducing services. You can not decrease taxes
and increase services, and we may as well face it. This is the
time to face it. We have got to realize this is a very serious
decision for this Commission to make which will affect the future
of this city.in this particular budget.
Chief Garmire: May I make one observation sir?
Mayor Ferre: Please do.
Chief Garmire: You indicated this morning that you were interested
in the 5% reduction. We did some calculations during the noon hour.
I would like you to bear in mind that the cost of operating a police
department, 90.6%of that cost is in personal services. As we look
at it , it's vertially impossible to cut out the other 90.4% of contract-
ual services and those things which are absolutely necessary, motor pool
for example. takes as I pointed out before 860 thousand dollars. My
point is this that if we are required to reduce by 5% it means of course
that we will have no additional police personnel and we will have to
eliminate the 41 civilizan positions that have tenately granted for
next year.
rIs
SEP 11 1974
We would loose the 41 civilizan and we would have to the cut the
43 police.
Mayor Ferre: Because it affects this budget and I don't want --
I think we have to talk a little bit about it. I recently read
in the newspapers that the PHI reports had recently came out had
Dade County. t don't know how many percents. and Miami was up
so much and everybody was up. All r:Lght n6w. there is no question
that nobody can denif statistic or otherwise that we have a
problem without at this point trying to analysis where the blame
gees or whose fault it is or what ever. The fact is there is no
way in the world that I know of that you can fight a war of any
kind without an army or without equipment or bombs or whatever
happens to be. This is unfortuantly a good analysis. If we have
a war going on against crime it must be doneby people and equipment
Now, I think we have to realize as when we tell the tax payers who
are the citizens of Miami when we decrease this mills ge as we go
about decreasing by cutting out people that we are going to cut out
their services and that when it comes time to read headlines about
crime increases that their is correlation. I don't want to hide
behind anything, I want to put it right out in front. I don't want
anybody to be saying that all of the services are not going to be
decrease and we are going to render equal service and we are going
to do all these things and combat crime and combat this and improve
all of these things. and at the same time reduce taxes. It is
impossible and I think we have got to put it right out and be very
honest about it and this is the time to do it.
Mr. Plummer: Chief Garmire. let me just ask a question that was
bothering me,that I thought was out of character and I am using
the work papers, I might be putting you at a disadvantage , using
the work papers office of the Chief rent. What are you paying
rent on for the tune of 15 hundred 80 dollars?
Chief Garmire: Office machinery xerox for examplenow there is
another item for xerox . We have more than one of those units
sir. and of course. one of them is in my office and we have available
to my office use and budgeted through my office. We also have, I
think you will find probably a services there is an additional rental
in there.
Mr. Plummer: A11 right. Let me follow that same train of thought
under special investigation . 20 thousand dollars of rent.
Chief Garmire: Basically, car rental. These cans are budgeted
differently. In the special investigations section we have a number
of rental cars we take mine runned cars which are used for basically
what we call undercover work.
Mr. Plummer: But.Chief don't we get somewhere at a point where we
are better off buying than renting, we have no equity in renting?
Chief Garmire: No, that's correct. It's a trait off. but what we
need in some areas of the department is a continual change of
automobiles, styles, models, colors, this type of thing. We can
accomplish this through a rental procedure where we couldn't if we
owned the vehicles.
Mr. Plummer: All right. Under Resource Development rent 44 thousand
256 dollars.
Chief Garmire: Basically computer rents.
Mr. Plummer: Couldn't we transfer that over to the bond issue now
that it is a reality?
SEP111974
Chief darmiee: 1 think we, will be able to do that or edn et ping
in thi a order in the next few Months or so, 1 am not quite cure
when this is going to happen and we have budgeted the minimum amount
that we think is necessary until the transition can be made.
Mt. Plummer: Chief, I remember going over one time, Police services
tent, 39 thousand 360 dollars. Police Division of Services 39
thousand 360 dollars.
Chief Garmire: these are two large xerox's machines. one of them
which is used primarily to reproduce reports which we sell the
public is virtually a revenue producing machine. the other is to
take the normal needs of the department. This is a very big operation
as far as we are concerned. Reproducing thousands of copies every
month.
Mr. Plummer: Chief, It's looks like to me that you are in the process
of about 80 tp 90 thousand dollars in reproducing equipment. Is that
correct?
Chief Garmire: At a rate of about 100 thousand . dollars a year
through the sale of copies.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Andrews can you tell me if you have received any
response to the City's request to the school board for some funds
for the school resource programm?
Mr. Andrews: Yes to the intent that they are giving this very serious
consideration they are in the staff. meeting. I think they are
holding one today. infact to review the proposal .
Mrs. Gordon: How much money are they giving us?
Mr. Andrews: 150 thousand dollars and their budget has
Mayor Ferre: Not quite that much it less about 100 thousand dollars.
Chief Garmire: I understand that the recommendation is being made
at 96 thousand dollars.
been
earmarked.
Mayor Ferre: flow much did we ask for Paul,when we had hoPea to
expand the program to 500 thousand dollars and you were asking
250, but they share an equal 250 thousand dollars a piece.
We have program in the Federal Revenue Sharing Funds that we have
available 400 thousand dollars, right now, so if they make a con trib-
ution of 96 thousand dollars perhaps we can find a wayof that getting
us some release within the general fund budget.
Mrs. Gordon: The school resource officer is a full fledge Policemen
officer is stationed to a particular school is that correct?
Chief Garmire: Yes that's correct.
Mrs. Gordon: Is it necessary to have a full Fledge policeman
in an Elementary School?
Chief Garmire: Not in Elementary. We don't have
Mrs. Gordon: What schools are you coverings?
Chief Garmire: Junior High Schools. and Senior High Schools.
Mrs. Gordon: Well isn't it possible that some other tYpe of
trained personnel could take the place of a uniform policeman
at a school? I mean very frankly the uniforms officer could
be used to supplement your 41 and some other trainee not with
5)
vio
I don't aee any reason for carrying a gun at a school.
Chief Garmire: it's been tried, for example the school security
people they have a considerable nurber,in each instance, where
we have had a police officer to control and the general decorum
that is Maintained in the area is far superior when a uniform
police officer is there.
Mayor Ferre: Chief, isn't it true that whereever it has, it has
been tried it's always been very successful when it's an honest
to goodness police officer and when it isn't that it hasn't had
the same impact.
Mrs. Gordon: What is the difference? The gun. I mean the uniform
could be patterned along the lines , I mean it could be acclimated.
Mayor Ferre: It's the experience. It's the man or women who has
really been into police work for many years or for a few years
and it's the rapport that is established -- because otherwise you
may as well take one of the kids and put a uniform on them and
then --
Mrs. Gordon: I think a social worker training is even more important
than a police officer.
Mayor Ferre: That isn't what we are doing there.
Chief Ferre:
We are doing social work.
Mrs. Gordon: Yes, but you are setting up a semble of authority and
this is what you are talking about.
Mayor Ferre: No. no, that's not -- at all, that's exactly the
opposite.
Mrs. Gordon:
It's a semble of authority , that's what the Police
officers role is --
Mayor Ferre: Well. that's your opinion. but that's certainly not
the opinion of the department as I voted or of the way the programm
works. Not as I have seen it personally.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, whether the semble of authority or anything
else,the results has been very diligence paid off. Now. why children
listen more to the police or against me as a clergymen I don't know
but since i am not a Psychologist . I am not going to even reason
to one. A11 I know at this point and time is''we need thait results.
Mr. Plummer: This is the point I am going to try to make to Father,
I think everyone has concurred the programs as it is. I think the
whole nitty gritty is great. Whose's responsible to pay for it
and I say it's not the city of Miami. t think it'll the school board
responsible to pay. When the school board created their special
security division they paid for it, they didn't come to us and say
Chief Garmire give me 50 men to run a secutity patrol. they put in
their own and I tell you what I come to here at the end, your'e
stealing my bullets along the line. I am willing this year from
Federal Revenue Sharing to match the dollars they give us with the
Sill understanding that next year they fund 100%.
Mrs. Gordon: Well. I am not disagreeing with you. I asked the
question of school boards contributing for the purpose being to
get this out of our budget so we can start cutting somewhere along
the way.
Rev. Gibson: You'te saying that you are not opposed to the police-
man himself. You are opposed to paying the bill. If the uniform
as a policeman and they agreed that the fact that it is a police-
man they have had great success.
56 SEP 11 1974
ok, then what 1 think 1 heir them saying is ok we will go along
with you. we understand that but we think since this is your
institution you run that then you ought to pay the bill.
Mayor Terre: rather Gibson. I went down with Mr. Paul Andrews
and Chief Garmire and 1 think Rose you were there or you came
after. no 1 don't think --. Well Paul Andrews, the Chief,
and I went down there and 1 got up before the sbhool board and
that's exactly the statement Pather that was made. This is really
a program. that you ought to be funding but I will tell what we
will do this year and I only speak as one person but I'.ve got the
whole administration with me. We will split it with you. We asked
them to come up with 250 thousand dollars and we would match them
with 250. Now I understand that we have been costing up with the
this 90.6 thousand dollars. The point is I cannot think of a
better programm and I am talking about crime right now. and I am
not talking about a guy with a gun. I am talking about preventive
medicine, that's what that whole programm is all about and it's
working. It's working well. Chief, you stop me if I am wrong
and --- 70% of the crime that is committed in this community is
committed by people that are less than 21 years old. because I
remember the figures.
Chief Garmire: That's correct.
Father Gibson: Mr. Mayor. I think I remember that day you were
there that morning. Chief. why isn't the school board willing and
anxious to say this year the Mayor propose dollar for dollar match
and then next year it's like teaching for them. Why can't they
then take it on?
Mayor Ferre: That was the agreement as I understood it. Chief.
You and I. when we talked about it you told me that it would relieve
you of 200 thousand dollars of revenue sharing funds so that you
could use in other areas. When I talked to Homes Bradack and A.
Bearand(You remember him) they both -- I talked to Bill Turner
and Ben Sheppard and I am willing to do it again. I had a committment
from the four of them and Phyllis Miller (5). I had five votes on
there that they were going to fund it. I am surprised that they are
going back on their committment and I am going to do something about
it. You and I are going to go and talk to them about it.
Mr. Plummer: But, you see, Mr. Mayor. here is one place in particular
that you can pick up 300 thousand dollars and you haven't cut the first
person ok. This is what I am trying to get at and I am telling you
before we get finished we can cut a million out of this police budget
before we cut our first person.
Mayor Ferre: That's great, but let's face it on one or two things
happening either sonebody has got to pick up the tab or we have got
to cut the program..
Mr. Plummer: You are wrong, until you hit them financially between
the eyes they are not going to concur with you. Now you went down
there like a nice guy, you and Paul and you begged them to participate
you see what happened?
Mayor Ferre: They promised they would.
Mrs. Gordon: Yes, but you should have said pay the whole tab.
Mr. Plummer: When you hit them between the eyes with it my friend,
you are going to start getting some action. Until you do that you
are kidding yourself.
Father Gibson: Well. J.L. I don't like to agree with you, but I think
I've got to agree with you. because you go where the people are silent.
SEP 11 1974
But I think I've got to agree with you.
Mr. Plummer: I think you got silence out of the school board.
Mr. Andrews: I disagree we got 96 thousand dollars which is
96 thousand dollars more then we ever had so that's not fair.
Mr. Plummer: Of 400 thousand.
Mr.
Mr. Andrews: No sir, of 250 thousand which is what the programm
coated last year.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager, did you make the statement to me that
they were basing their donation on half of a man's salary?
Mr. Andrewts: No it's not quite half. They are basing it on
6 thousand dollars contribution toward per man. They calculated
out that each police officer provide certain benefits directly
to the school. that they would have to render themselves in exp-
osure that the police officers renders. On that formulation they
came up with 6 thousand some odd dollars per man contribution.
Mr. Plummer: Chief, what are they paying their men because you
had a very big problem? What are they paying their security
men to start right now?
Chief Garmire: I am sorry I can't tell you.
Mr. Plummer: It's somewhere in the neighborhood as I recall around
12 thousand dollars.
Chief Garmire: That sounds about right.
Mr. Plummer: And they are offering us 6, they sure don't have a
good opinion of our men.
Father Gibson: But J.L. based on the training of our men. We need
service or they need to understand based on the investment training
wise of our men their is no comparison.
Chief Garmire: That's correct.
Father Gibson: Therefore, they ought to be willing to
realistically.
Mr. Plummer: Well, let me tell you what you go and hit them with
all right. The city of Miami is going to match dollar for dollar
what they put in the school resources programm and after this year
we are not going to put in any matching funds, if they want 18 police-
men, the Chief is going to sit down and figure what 18 policemen cost
and they are going to give us a check for it or we are going to cut
it out. I think that's fair.
Mayor Ferre: Listenthis is a problem that deals with creme on the
streets. If you don't want to take responsible for it Commissioner
Plumner's going to be their answer then that's find with us. We will
take care of our education in our own way and thank you very much
and goodbye.
Father Gibson: Mr. Mayor. let me tell you this. I wish it were only
in the streets. if it were only in the streets then we'd be Scott free.
They don't think we understand what's happening and they are not saying
word about the security patrol that we put in.
Mayor Ferre: Look. I am going to tell it to you the way it ia.
The only reason you got 96 thousand dollars is because M. Ferre
asked for the payment of some favours. ok. some political favours
t) M
SEP 111974
•
and things that have been dove in the pest and the way these things
run, you know how these things operate and I asked Dr. Ben Sheppard
Phyllis Miller, domes eradack, Bill Turner and we got five votes
on that and 1 have a committment from them. It may hot sound very
nice or you may not like the way. but that's the way this system
works, and that's why we end up getting 96 thousand and all I am
telling you is that it maybe fine. but up until this year you've got
nothing and you've had that programm operating and you've had this
from them.
Father Gibson: Mr. Mayor, we aren't debating. I understand what
you are talking about but Iltell you one thing if you went to say
to them there isn't going to be anymore officers of you. Do you
know what would happen? All those schools in trouble. I don't know
about the schools in the white area. but those schools in trouble
and they have a responsible, let's assume that we will wait until
they bring it on the street where we are in the city will have to
pay for it. They will catch the devil before they get there.
Mayor Ferre: Let me show you how far we all are off on this. Let's
just go outside the city of Miami. you think this problem exists
in N. Miami. N.M.B. you know what they am doing there, very little
Do you think the school board are at all upset about it? Or they
rushing in to fill the vacuum about it? No sir. they are not:
Father Gibson: Suppose, Mr. Mayor. another visit is made with you
and the Manager. I just think that we can't give up. and I don't
think that we should just let them have a free ride. I think they
need to be faced realistically . You see what happening is, they
would make us deplete our funds to do their duty.so we need to go
go them realistically. Mr. Mayor we can be respectfully, polite
and cajoling. If neither one of those, and all of them put together
won't get us what we are looking at then we will get hard votes.
Then afterward we need to go nose to nose. if we can't cajole.
Let's assume that we cannot get any more than 96 thousand dollars
that would be more than we have.
Mayor Ferre: Would you write them a letter and let them know
or call them up and see if we can get them on our agenda and would
you let all of the Commission know so that whoever wants to present
can be there.
Mr. Plummer: In the 435 thousand dollars for 97 new vehicles was
that before or after the 10% announced hike in automobiles? In other
words we realistically know that all big three are going up 10% in
their cost of vehicles.
Mayor Ferre: I think in fairness to your question that this was
calculated prior to the 10% increase.
Mr. Plummer: By the way the tire company just announced that the
tires are going up for those new automobiles in the like amount
of 10%, so really that figure is not going to hold true.
Chief Garmire: I think this was calculated on figures that we had
last available last May of June.
Mr. Plummer: So we are looking realistically at a half a million
rather than435 thousand ?
Chief Garmire: It could very well be.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Andrews. I want to go bakk to the Community Develop-
ment Programm and reading from the form under Paragraph 3 secti.on8
there is a portion of that which says that the eligible funds. eligible
activities. crime prevention. I put this in because in your analysis
)1
which we will be doing of trying to find ways of parin j the budget
You might consider that the source of replacement might code Item
i:bme of the community development funds. because it is an eligible
function.
Mr. Andrews: I'd be willing to do that but the commission is beginning
to formulate a policy here in which they are trying desperately to
chip those operating costs away from the Federal grant types of funds
which•is Federal Revenue Sharing or the Housing Community nevelopment
Funds. You will have to come to a policy decision that you are willing
to except.
firs. Gordon: The community development procedure is not revenue
sharing funds per say it's a building up process for the very purpose
that government cannot fund themselves totally and it isn't the same
as what we are acustom to getting as revenue sharing funds and I don't
profess to be an expert on the subject. I just: have a smathering of
information, but I have enough of smathering to know that there is
an avenue here that we can persue.
yr. Plummer: Are we through with the Chief now? So. in other words
do I understand finalizing on -the Chief. that you and the Chief are
going to indebeted to try to find 5% reduction?
Mayor Ferre: In terms of programefs and functions that we will present.
Well, that's the way we are going to have to present it. because you
can't go in and say we are going to eliminate one position here and
one position there, that's been done in the past. That's not the way
to do that this.
Mrs. Gordon: you are going to try to find other funding sources for
funds that you are going to have to ship around that's what you are
talking about.
Chief Garmire: Well. Commissioner Plumafbr, is talking about another
matter theta one and the other is the shifting around. The matter he
is talking about is 5% of the total police budget to find a way of try-
ing to reduce that by 5%.
Mrs. Gordon: I don't remember any resolution designating 5% as a
figure. We are all attempting to do the same thing but there is
no such figure because we can't set a set figure unless we use the
one that was delivered to us by the tax acsessor and that was more
than 5% and if we are going to try to get to that we are going to
have to ----- We have to leave it open and flexible. We can't say
you have to take 5% out of here and 5% here or what. You have the
idea and I am sure you know what we want.
Mr. Andrews: You tell us what: servicvd we have Lie eta.
Dirs. Gordon: No, not cut. Where we can got funding sources besides
the ones from where we arr trying to get them from.
Mr. Jones: I thought that I was finished. When the Mayor told me
I had to cut 400 thousand dollars out of my budget. I mean finished
period.
'.a"or Ferre: It's funny how people gat different ideas from the
r;a:Ae thing I thought you hadn't started.
11 . Jones: Well. I think when I was hare in August T went over all
of our present programa and I didn't see the value of going into
what each of my divisions do again with you. I think that this only
going to continue our present service in this, budg-t picking up
garbage from the back yards on a twice a week basis and the rubbage
on .3 once a week basis from the streets. Our oily n'w pr.'ocTrama was
a C ?ill w i11 service for bulky trash that we have just ') 'gun.
6(1
We have been providing this new service since lltaguat 12th and it's
working out very well. It's one that I think we need to continue,
and 1 thinl, it's not only going to give the public a convenient
means of getting rid of their old refrigrators.stoves. and that ebrt
of bulky trash, but I think that it's also going to clean up the looks
of our streets by us being able to bear down on the people that are
putting it out at other times,other than when the!, call in. We have
all of our regular crews now are reporting these and the inspectors
are being able to get on them and saying look. "we are providing you
with a new service and giving them a pamphlet and telling them they are
going to have to bring the material back into their yards and call in
and put it out the night before the morning of collection". This should
clean up the streets considerable. For three weeks now we have been
getting about 150 calls a week and this should increase when ---
Mayor Ferre: When do you think this will really begin to show in the
city?
Father Gibson: Mr. Mayor. let me testify for him. Well. I came back
from vacation and I came back about Saturday. I went by Franklin and
I was mad,there was a refrigerator. I am happy to say on Monday. I
went by there and the refrimrator was gone. I didn't know he had put
in the service. I was just getting ready to blow my stack. Down there
at the aementary jail where you -- I said why in the world they put
the refrigeratorthere? A11of a sudden it went. I said to my wife.
I know it wasn't a good samaritan because in the first palace a
good samaritan lever would have been out there, but I mutt conceive
that in the last week to ten days the streetsin the Grove. not only
the streets/the whole Grove.has looked better.
Mr. Jones: Well, I think we have already made some imporvements.
It's takes a while for inspectors to get around and once these people
have to carry something back in their yards one time and use the
call in service, I think they are going to remember nexttime to
call in you see, this is the only way of course if we pick any of it
up on our regular service why, the program is not going to work.
Mayor Ferre: How many trucks do we have now operating, white trucks?
Mr. Jones: we have 6 white trucks, and two hydro -cranes. We have
advertising on the side of the trucks.
Mayor Ferre: In the lab reports you say you are going to get after
them to comply, but if a man puts an old refrigrator out on the street
and somebody,- or your inspector goes by and he doesnt know whose
refrigerator it belongs to..just so happen it's in front of my house
it dot necessary have to be mine, somebody else could have put it
in my front yard. I would do it at 5 in the morning and put it in
front of yours.
Mr. Jones: Well, we know there is some of this going on. Of course,
our ordnance does put the responsible on the man that owns the
property and it's in front of and unlesss he can see somebody doing
it and pointing it out to us. but there are people of course that
say too, that I didn't put this out there. somebody dumped it and we
find out that they were the ones that did put it out. This is a
problem of people going around and dumping things at night in front
of other people's proprty. I know that, but it's one that is going
to be very difficult to atop. We have asked the help of the Police
in these kinds of things too. If they are patroling and they see
somebody doing something like this.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Jones. I remember I got off the express way in the
city of Miami one time on the East way expressway around. I didn't
have any money in my pocket.
61
SEP,I 174
I had to get off the expressway not to pay the toll so I went around
to one of these side streets and that side street I couldn't believe
how touch trash and junk, this was about four or five months ago, right
next to the expressway and it was three feet high and another place
WAS down therein the wynd wood area was a lot worse than Coconut Grove
there was stuff piled up in the middle of the street.
Mr. Jones: We had a court case at that particular location I think
that you are talking about these was a lot of boxes and things they
were out in the street and on the -- the man that lived there was
actuallylhe was an incompetent person. he couldnt understand what
we were trying to tell him,finally some of his friends did get together
and they cleaned up his property and the street ,,but it took us a
while to handle that problem, but we had to go to court with it.
Mr. Plummer: How much did they pay us rent for putting that toll
gate on our city of Miami property?
Mr. Jones: When we looked into this they got an opinion from their
bond counselor and there was no way for them to relieve governmental
agencies without charging them as they charge everyone else.
Mrs. Gordon: Yes. but don't know have to pay rent for using public
land?
Mr. Jones: You know. I don't know that, that is city of Miami right
of way at that point of what you are speaking of.
Mrs. Gordon: Yes it is.
Mr. Jones: No sir, we do not.
Mr. Plummer: Do our Fire trucks and police trucks pay on 836 when
they go through that toll gate?
Mr. Jones: I don't know.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Jones. tell me a realistic figure of what it cost
us to generate the steam for the Jackson Hospital. Realistic now:
Mr. Jones: Let me see now. ---
Mr. Plummer: Let me give you the figures that I was given. You
tell me If I am out of the ball park. It cost the city ofMiami
150 thousand dollars to generate steam for Jackson Hospital and
you know what the County pays us for it? Ready for this one? 85
thousand. What a bargain?
Mr. Jones: It pays us a dollars a unit, one thousand pounds.
Where did you get that figure Mr. Plummer?
Mr. Plummer: I got it from a private hauler if you want to know the
truth.
Mr. Jones: This is a turd figure to really come by.
Mr. Plummer: Let me give you another example. We gave Metro the
water and sewer department and out of their kind generosity we gave
them so called replacement value 400 million in real estate by the
way. right off the bat just like that. Water and sewer department was
generating into the general funds approximately 900 thousand dollars
a year. Ok, that was surpluses , 900 thousand. Through their generosity
for the next five years they are going to give us 290 thousand dollars
and at the end of the five years it's cut off . You think they're upset
S E P 1 1 1974
about it? uh: you have never seen a tiger by the tail. Mr. Andreya
give them an exan le. Tell Father Gibson so he will know what kind
of monster he is trying to. fight. What does Metropolitan Dade County
owe us for the Old Port which we have never collected?
Mr. Andrews: 1 million 200 thousand dollars.
Mr.Plummer: Thank's we owe you. Wait a minute you haven't heard
the best one yet. Let me tell you what they are going to hit you with
between the eyes in about another three months. Do you know what
Ocean Front property sells for an acreage. Don't even answer it.
They are going to propose to the city of Miami to acquire 60 acreas
of Ocean Front property on Virginia Key for a new sewerage plant. do
you know what they are going to give us - generosity over whelms me.
2h million dollars. Do you know what it's worth? 15 million dollars.
Then they are going to charge 16 thousand to carry our garbage trucks
over.
Father Gibson: Mr. Mayor. I just don't think we are really treating
our tax payers fair and right, but I think Mr. Mayor out of fairness
to the tax payers we just have to ask that we get a better shake than
that. I just don't see that.
Mr. Plummer: Well, I think you got another thing facing you in the
face right now. and that is that the governor got a blessing. Took
Dade County by a majority. The governnr is right now has proposed
to eliminate the 10% utility tax and I got to tell you something, if
he does it Metropolitan Dade County and the city of Miami has got to
get that 10% from somewhere else. He is proposing the elimination of
the utility tax. We haven't even started to talk about a possible
reduction this year. because of the fact that I mailed to each and
everyone of you. you know we are faced right now because of this great
assessment in Dade County this year. We are looking right now of re -
a reduction in our state revenue and I don't think yet you know what
state revenue is. Do you? Well, I was told in Orlando you can look
for it because you know it's coming. Any County that had a great
evaluation of reevaluation of assement of property is going to get
a reduction in state revenue sharing.
Mr. Andrews: It could happen if the rest of the counties and state
have not evaluated their Properties as high as we havethen, what happens
is this three part formula .one part of that formula is based on assess-
ment . properties and the formula works againkt you if you go to
high assetment and the rest.of the state go to low, because that throws
it out of proportionate.
Mr. Plummer: You are overlooking the main proportion as to what we
were informed, and that is the growth of the county. That's one of
the main criteria where Dade County has almost become statism in
growth compared to areas like Orlando which is just booming, of course
they got other problems now, but other areas where our construction
is great.. They are going to get a greater percentage than we are.
These are areas that you are not hearing about. Sanitation incineration
you got 39 hundred dollars more here for road toils. Whatsthat for?
Mr. Jones: Bringing more trucks over there.
Mr. Plummer: Why is it in two or more budgets?
Mr. Jones: This is the incinerator ash . About every hour we take
load of ashes over there. That's 24 hours a day.
Mr. Plummer: Now. we are up to 20 thousand dollars. Are 3o u paying
any other road tolls?
SEP 111974
y� �y y�
Mr. aiOMO: NO.
Mayor Ferre: Look, you got no other choice, because Key Biscayne
toll gate is a bond issue as part of bond indentures to specifically
state that there are no exceptions.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, but you are precluding that the possibility
of that 20 thousand dollars coming out of some of the money they owe
us. What's what I am trying to get at. If they owe us a million 2
from the Old Port let's start taking that 20 thousand dollars a year
out of the debt that they owe us.
Commissioner Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I proposed that we instruct the
Manager or we ask you and the Manager or whoever, or whatever, if we
go to the County and say, look man, this just doesn't make sense you
owe us a million odd thousand dollars and you are charging us 16
thousand dollars a year fair changes, no robberies, just charging us
the amount every year until such time, we eat, just --- - they get.
Mr. Jones: Well. this is just our department, the parks and recreation
department takes care of ----
Commissioner Gibson: Whatever the situation I just don't think we are
fair to the tax payers. I just can't in good conscience sit up here
and vote on the tax payers and the city of Miami 16 thousand, at least
per year to go through that gate and know that they owe us a million
odd thousand dollars. Man, this just doesn't make sense. I offer
a motion,that the Manager and if the man needs -- I always like for
somebody else,the motion is that the Mayor needs a delegation with
the Manager to go to the County and try to resolve this differential
in money about going through that gate and coming back through it.
Mr. Plummer: Well, Father, don't minimize it just down to the
sanitation; let's let the Manager come up with a true figure of what
parka and recreation. ---
Mayor Ferre: Father, will you extend that motion and include other
similar items in the relation between the city and county.
Commissioner Gibson: Beautiful.
Mayor Ferre: Is there a motion? Is there a second?
Mr. Plummer: I second the motion.
Mayor Ferre: Is there any further discussion? Call the roll.
6t
SEP 11 1974
The following Orion was introduced by CorJ:ssioher (:;in
who moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 74-696
i\ MOTION REQUESTING THE MAYOR eii U TN2
CITY MANAGER TO NEGOTIATE WITH ?.I TRO-
POLITAN DAD COUNTY IN AN EFFORT TO
RESOLVE THE DISCREPANCIES BETWEEN THE
ONE MILLION ,TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS
t•WHICH THE COUNTY OWES THE CITY OF MIAMI
IN CONNECTION WITH THE TRANSFER O? TM; PORT
TO DADE COUNTY AND THE TOLLS WHICH THE
COUNTY CHARGES THE CITY ON THE RIC:CEN3.ACICrR
CAUSEWAY.
Upon being seconded by Mr. Plummer, the motion waa passed
and adopted by the following vote -AYES: Rev. Gthson, firs. Gordon,
Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboao. Mayor Ferre. NOES: None.
Mir. Plummer: All right, in an entirely vein of anywhere that we
have spoken today raising your budget, I any very concerned in the
Arose of 1' t c �c_url nn . T personally have received a lot of complaints
and they seem to be getting more every day. In 1972. you hit a high
in your budget of 19 thousand 444 dollars and for some reason have
dropped down to 15 thousand 250 dollars . Mr. Jones I have to tell
you it shows. Mr. Manager what I am really saying to you is, I would
like to see that budget increase as it pertainato lot clearance.
Mr. Andrews: Let me explain something to you. This is a revolving
fund that we put in there every year and depending on how well the
people pay this money back , depends on whether we have to put more
back in or not.
S £ P 11 1974
bight now about 90% of the people are paying for the clearing of their
lot right away ao that they want have to pay the interest ratebut we
have about 10% that don't. A lean is put against their property.
Mr. Plumper: Right now, how often do you clean a lot?
Mr. Andrews: Well. first of all, let me tell you that our biggest
problem and the reason that we cannot clean as many lots as we would
like to is because we do not have the people to do the job. We got
about 3 people that are willing to go out and do this work for us.
contractors i.a what I am talking about. Private contractors. Quite
often their equipment breaks down just like our's does. We've gone
out and beat the bushed to try to get other people interested in this.
When we get a large job in particular we have a heck of a time trying
to find somebody to do it. Some jobs that requires some bull dozing
or some heavy cutting equipment. We get these things piled up, we try
to go through the city and clean these things at least once or twice
a year, every lot that needs cleaning.
Mr. Plummer: Since it is a:assessable charge against the tax payer
and not budget item. why aren't we doing it in house, why don't
we have one or two cruises that doesn't it? I am saying to you.
that right now as i recall as i spoke to you once about lot clearing
program , where you spoke at the Beautification Committee. Yoa have
only hitting these lots about once a year at best.
Mr. Andrews: Well some of them we are doing more often.
Mr. Plummer: Since this 3ot clearing program is assessable against
the property. why can't we increase to twice a year and just charge
it to the tax payer if 90% of them are paying.
Mr. Andrews: It's possible to set up crews to do this in the city
maybe the parks and recreation department or some other department.
Mayor Ferre: Let me tell you something, you may have had problems
last year but I guarantee you we will not have problems in another
couple of weeks or months in getting all the equipment and men you
want to go clear off anylots you need.
Mr. Plummer: I see one man, a tractor. a truck, and a trailer.
I've watched him cut these lots down here next to Rose and I want
to tell you something he cut that lot not four &.one had{ months
ago and today that lot because we have had an over abundance of
rain it's back up higher than when he cut it before. These are
the kind of areas we read about in action line, about the rats. the
snakes. the vermins, and everything elite. I am saying to you
where this is an assessable charge against the owner of the property.
Take it out of your budget as a budget item. Take it out of there.
and put two crews on in and let them do the job. I don't see any-
thing wrong with it.
Mr. Andrews:
and in order
considerable
Mayor Ferre:
maybe in the
and people.
Yes, but the capitalization of getting it started up
to generate the revenues to replace it would be a
amount of money.
My opinion is that this is not the time to do that,
future, you will find plenty of available equipment
Mayor Ferre: Are there any other questions, Mr. Jones .if not I
would like to get back to Paul Andrews dilemma, Florida session law
says here : A. Chapter 74-234 - 200.065 Method of fixing mileage
section 2. sub section A. No mileage in excess of the excess of
SEP 11 1974
certified mileage shall be levied until a resolution or ordiance
has been appro&ed by the governing board of the taxing authority
Which resolution or ordiance may be approved by said taxing
authority according to the following procedure: A. After the
meeting finalizing the budgets the taxing authority shall
advertise it's intent to exceed the intent of certified millage
in a newspaper of general circulation in the County, as provided
in the sub section 3 of this section. The public hearing shall
be approximately 7 days after the day that the advertising is
published and shall be held after 5 p.m. and shall be for the
purpose of hearing comments. regarding the proposed increase
and explain the reasons for the proposed increase.
Mr. Andrews: Now. Mr. Mayor. my main reason for asking you to
read that is because it does not say anything about taxes in that.
It talks about exceeding certified mileage for operating purposes
and we have designed an advertisement which will achieve that and
also at the same time announce that there is no tax increase because
the city Commissioner is not only looking at operating mileages it's
looking at the total mileage levied against property.
Mr. Plummer: Let me ask you a question, is this the day oe ought
to pass such a motion?
Mr. Andrews: You'd have to pass this motion now, but the important
thing is to fix the date that you would want to do this - recognizing
that you'd have to come to some understanding about the appropriation
ordiance first.
Mr. Plummer: Do you know the reason that they passed that rule. they
said there isn't a city Commission alive that's got the guts to put
that ad in the paper. That was the comment made"that by God eley may
think they will go above the ten capped lips that we inserted on them
but they aint".-- but their intention was if you had to put that ad
in the paper you'd run for the hills.
Mr. Andrews: Well. you see the designers of the law when they designed
that law in exempted that service they never I quess,envisioned that
it would be possible for a Municipality to have a total.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Andrews.we have not finialized the budget. We
can't choose that day yet can we?
Mr. Andrews: Well. only if you want to +nick a date far enough in
advance in which you felt you would be final$ted the budget.
Mayor Ferre: How much time do we need to advertise? What are the
procedures? What's the timing in all of this? Why do we have to
do it today?
Mr. Andrews: Well, I will show you what happens,let's assume on the
19th that you conclude your hearings on the budget, all right, let's
make that assumption. I have to arrive something to come to a con-
clusion. Mr. Lloyd informs me that if we are to have a public
hearings on the appropriations ordiance we must now advertise it. 15
days in advance. all right.
Mr. Lloyd: What I said was, that if you are going to pass your
appropriation ordiance on two readings you have to allow 15 days
for the advertisement of the passing of the ordiances the way you
avoid that is to pass an emergency ordiance. now you are talking
about two different status. you got a general status providing for
this advertisement which we do. That's why when we pass an ordiance
on first reading we have to skip a meeting before we have the next
reading of the ordiance because we advertise in between readings.
61
SEP 1 1 1974
(.1
Mr. Andrews: The reason 1 ara going to the 1.5 deye, Mr. Lloyd its be': anue
Mr. Plummer is sitting right here at my right hand aide and eayincl if
you go to an emergency ordinance which requires 4/5 vote we're in trouble
I am going to help the Cornstission as Much as possible. This is the
Commission seting a policy.
Mayor Ferre: So, you're saying this is the way we don't have to do
it by emergency.
Mr. Andrews: ices, we would not have to do it by 4mergency. That's
what I am trying to outline.
Mayor Ferre: Are you in agreement Mr. Lloyd?
Mr. Llyod: Providing there is enough time. Yes. If you were to
pass this ordiance now or you going to wait?
Mayor Ferre: No. I am trying, to get the city Commission between now
and the 15 days from now which we would advertise for the adoption
of the millage ordiance and the appropriation ordziance to have
Sufficient hearings and maybe the one on the lgth plus another one
will do that. Then we would have the appropriation ordiance then
approved on first reading. A day or two later if you chose you could
adopt it on second reading. Then you would have the second reading
two days later or so. If you decide that within a week approximately
after that, that we would have then the first public reading as re-
quired by the state statue that date would be fixed and we would
advertise accordingly immediate after the passage of the second reading
of the appropriation ordiance. All right, then we have that first
hearing seven days later. and then after that hearing another date
have to be set which you could set in advance for the second hearing
and we would have sufficient time to advertise prior to that last
hearing of -- one practical problem this could very well with all these
dates and with the 30 days requirement unless you waived it, if you had
30 days for that ordiance to come into being, then what you would do is
adopt an additional appropriation ordiance that would extend the existing
appropriations through the month of October to carry us at the same rate
that we are operating now and then make this new appropriation ordiance
retro active back to October 1st. Well I will tell you my opinion I
think that we have got a reAponsible to do everything possible to cut
this budget. Now at the nitty gritty stage.
Chief Hickman: Mr. Mayor, Member of the Commission. I am not going to
use Don Hickman, the Chief . or anyone else in what I am about to say
but I can assure you that there will be a director written that no
department director or assistant director will be permitted to take
their vacation in the month of September from here on. I am not
against the Chief but he didn't realize this ground rule and maybe it's
my fault .
Mayor Ferre: Frankly, Mr. Andrews. I didn't want to bring it out be-
cause it would have been mieinterperted with Chief Garmire, but now
that you brought it out I am frankly surprised that we don't have rules
and regulations at budget hearings. All right we'll have to stay over
then. I am sorry.
Chief Hickman: Gentlemen. faced with rising costs and_expanding
programs in our Fire service,we met many times with the budget department
and administration and trim the fat out of our budget increased the
productivity of our personnel and facing the fact that we will be rated
by the ISO next year came to a figure that we feel. that's the best
figure that we can agree on in order to maintain service and maintain
the first class rating for our Fire department and I would like to urge
you to serious consider this figure that the city Manager recommended
to you because when we talk about %6 cut in the fire department.we have
�'� SEP 1 1 1974
t
05% salary and 5% fot' operas:ing the budget. If 2 out out 5% I am
cutting Out more than trey operational budget. These are the only
two places to cut about 38 fireren Or two rescues, so this is the
urgency twat 1 ask you to consider leaving this figure that was
recommended by the city Manager.this year.
Mayor Ferre: You are recommending an increase of one person.
Chief Hickman: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: Chief, would you tell me where the 300 thousand dollars
increase comes in then?
Chief Hickman: That represents the, in a general atatement,the overall
increase in the rising coat of buying equipment and running our fire
department sir.
Mr. Andrews: Also that figure includes merit increases and the carried
funds for that extra one quarter year at the 5%. Any questions?
Mr. Plummer: One area that I wanted to get into Mr. Mayor, in the
fire department and I am not going to hit it hard. but I am going to
bring it up and broach it. at least make it a part of the record.
Mr. Andrews. presently what is the posture of plane fare, if you want
to call it that of the fire dispatching by computers and the computer
operation of the fire department. I see no allocation in this budget
nor do I find it anywhere in the budget. You sold us a great story
about the fantastic need for the police department, what it could do
and what it would save. What I am asking you now is, is there any
moneys in here. We delegated last year in federal revenue sharing
20Othousand dollars and that's being carried over to this year.
All right, so what presently is the posture at this time?
Mr. Andrews: The report from Booz- Allen will be available before
the end of this s+onth•that much we've been assured. I had an opportunity
tolook at a draft of that copy and it includes very forcefully that the
fire department should be computerized and sets out a method in achieving
that for the department in conjunction with the requirements for the
department of finance and begins to approach the problem of total
computerizations of functions in the city. As soon as we get that we'll
be in a position to move then, in an orderly fashion toward computerizing
the department of fire and the 200 thousand dollars is still in tact to
be utilized for this purpose. the appropriation in this year's budget.
from federal revenue sharing funds.
Mr. Plummer: All right sir.now do you feel comfortable with the fact
that now under rising inflation that 200 thousand dollars is still
adqeuate?
Mr Andrews: It's adequate. but I can't honestly tell you that
it's going to be completely sufficient at this stage. I am reluctant.
to add more money to it at this stage. It reminds me that when we
went back through that between rescue and the police adjustments that
we reduced that to 125 thousand from the 200 thousand that was original
appropriated. So we are down to 125 thousands. We make have to go back
and look at that. I can't give you a ---
Mr. Plummer: Will we be smarter at this time when we start cutting up
the revenue funds to put and I don't want to set an arbitrary figure
but I want to make sure that it's provided for.
Mr Andres: Yes, I think we would have to find the other 75 thousand
dollars to restore it.
Mr. Plummer: Chief Hickman.
at such things as chemicals
supplies.radio parts. radio
let me ask you this question, I am looking
. clothingsfire hose attachments, fire
miscellaneous, safety. equipment new and
SEP 11 197,1
replaced. Nov Mr. Andrew* vhy can't that be taken out of his budget
and put into Federal Revenue Sharing?
Mr. Andrews: Well. I tell you what I could do that and I would satisfy
I think you. that we were doing the right thing. In my judgement if
you move those elements over to the Federal Revenue Sharing Funds, you
aren't really reaching the objectives that you want to reach. What you
are doing you are going to end up with people and over in the Revenue
Funds you got all of the equipment that they have got to have to operate.
If you don't have this equipment you might as well not have the people
Mr. Plummer: What you are tsaying is that , that is just as dynamite.
Mr. Andrews: Yes.sir. that's why we have to be very careful when we
do this.
Mr. Plummer: All right. let me aske this question . Chief , I know
from the last piece of equipment that we ordered we were talking about
in the neighborhood of 240 thousand dollars for that one piece of
equipment. Now Paul is everything on order presently, because we are
talking about 20 months delivery? This is what I am getting at tomorrow
you are going to ordet three more unite. Is that coming out of Federal
Revenue Sharing?
Mr. Andrews: Yes sir.
Mr. Plummer: Ok. The final question you told me Mr. Andrews that you
are contemplating either two or three new fire stations during this
year.
Mr. Andrews: I can't remember both of those are brand new stations
or if one is a rebuilding of one.
Mr. Plummer: Construction. Whether it's repair or replace.
Ok. It's immaterial Don. Why can't some of that come out of Federal
Revenue Sharing to free other dollars in his budget or is that from
that capital bond issue?
Mr. Andrews: That is from the capital bond issue.
Mr. Plummer: Solely from there, so there is no give from there at
all. I explored.
Mayor Ferre: Any other questions?
Mr. Plummer: Chief, to you the same question and I am using the
Mayor's question. Do you see any 5% give in your budget?
Chief Hickman: No sir, because I have such a small operating
fund the only place we can cut is personnel or our rescue, which
means services.
Mr. Plummer: Ok. I just want it for the record, because I have
made a flat out statement that in police and fire I am not going
for a reduction. I think we got to Look elsewhere and I think when
you are talking about the two major functions which both are life
support services I dolt think you can cut period. I just want that
on the record, because it's going to be my position when the votes
come down to the nitty gritty that I am not going to stand for a
reduction I might stand for some reshuffling. but I am not going to
stand for a reduction when it comes to police and fire.
Mr. Andrews: May t ask you to correct your budget document on page
tJ
SEP 1 1 1974
43.not to correct it but make a notation of this and that is, the
funds were established for the 14 additional people to bring down
the hourly work week of firemen from 54 to 52 hours, but the 14
people in turns of numbers ':co be added to the 666 was not added in.
You would want to make a notation that there to be 14 people added.
to that. The funds are there for that.
Mr. Plummer: Are you speaking about the increase of 666 including
the 14 or do not.
Mr. Andrews: Adding the 14 plus 666 making a total of 680.
Mr. Plummer: Chief, • my final question to you, I know you hit on
the subject. but I also knoW you are coming up for a rating this
year. Based on the budget you were denied approximately 500 thousand
dollars that you requested. Is any of that 500 thousand dollars
critical to your rating when it comes up before vhatever board?
Chief Hickman: I don't believe so Mr. Plummer, I have worked very
close with Mr. Johnson one this, and I think any of our ideas we
can meet with ISO and maintain our class 1 rating.
Mr. Plummer: That's what I want to hear.
Mayor Ferre: Any of other questions can be asked?
Chief Hickman: I would like to say I two able Assistants - Chief
Price and Chief Proli would be here to answer any questions. I am
going to attent a convention. We have brought two conventions into
our city 1975,1976 and at this convention we will be working out the
programs for these conventions.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor. I am in accord with what you said, the sense
of it. I hope Mr. Andrews, I know the intent because I share the same
concern with the Chiefwhen he said he was going to the convention.
I hope we don't preclude that if the Chief or any other Chief who must
go to a convention and they are going to be a part of the agenda to
bring the convention it might be difficult to tell him he can't take
a vacation. You know what I mean. I hope any rule you pass has an
exception.
Mayor Ferre: You remember the reposals that you brought up on the
vacation thing which you attempting to implement. I am not going
to make it so iron clad that someone can't do that, but when they
do it the Commission is going to know about it well enough in advance
so it doesn't come during the budget hearing process that you would
be aware that a department head would be gone.
Raw. Gibson: Well. my proposal was that you don't permit them
to accumulate time so that later on slip ups of the funds, but his
is a little different situation . He is going to be leaving to go
to a convention part of his vacation which bring a convention in a
part of his professional outfit and I don't want us unmindful. The
thing is a very important thing, because I know how I am in the Church
I want to be there so I can make sure they bring that convention down
here too. you know. That's the way we have to get added funds to do
that thing we are talking about now.
Mayor Ferre: Agreed.
Chief Hickman: Thank you very much.
Mayor Ferre: Have a nice vacation.
71
S E P 1 1 1974
Abt Ot ekor ' :
THERE BEING NO F'URTE R BUSINESS TO COME BORE THE
CITY COMMISSION, THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT:
ATTEST: H.D. Southern
CITY CLERK
Ralph G. Ongie
ASSISTANT City Clerk
5:15 O'CLOCK P.M.
Maurice A. Perre
MAYOR
SEP 11 1974