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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1974-05-15 MinutesCITY OF MIAMI SPECIAL COMMISSION MINUTES OF MEETING HELD ON MAY 15, 1974 PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK CITY HALL i rrei Po, PAGE NO• 1 2 CITY ATTORNEY TO INTERVENE ON BEHALF OP CITY OF MIAMI-CASE CITY OF NORTH MIAMI VS. RUSSELL E. TRAIN - PROTECTION AND PRESERVATION OF A GRANT OF $86 MILLION BY T HE ENVIROMENTAL • PROTECTION AGENCY r R-74-394 R-74-395 21 21 MINUTES of SPECIAL MEETING CITY COMMISSION OP MIAMI, FLORIDA On the 15th day of May, 1974, the City Commission of Miami, Florida met at its regular meeting place at City Hall in Said city in special session called by the Mayor to consider business of public import. The meeting was called to order at 4:05 o'clock P.M. by Mayor Maurice A. Ferre with the follow- ing members of the Commission present: Reverend Gibson, Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso and Mayor Ferre. Absent: Mrs. Gordon. Mayor Ferre: The purpose of this special meeting is to dis- cuss the situation that the City of Miami presently faces because of an, in effect, moratorium;that is actually in effect in the City because of our inability to hook up sewer lines. In view of the fact that the City of Miami a few years ago turned over to Metropolitan Dade County a Water and Sewers Department, an on -going department which was successful at that time, and which was valued at close to five hundred million dollars, without it costing Metropolitan Dade County any money; in effect making it possible for Metropolitan Dade County to get substantial grants from the federal government to improve not only the Virginia Key plant but improve the whole sewage situation in Dade County -- and mind you, this was all done while the City of Miami was still paying for some of the debt on that property, and is still. paying that debt. Now the situation has been very seriously aggravated because of a lawsuit that has been instituted by the City of North Miami against the EPA for reasons which Mayor John Stembridge will explain. Let me at the outset of these deliber- ations point out that I have nothing but the greatest respect and admiration for John Stembridge, as the Mayor of North Miami and as an outstanding leader in our community. I think he is a man of conviction and a man of complete integrity. I have no questions about his intentions in this matter. Unfortunately his actions and that of his city severely affect the citizens of Miami, and we cannot be passive, nor can we remain mute at such a crucial point in the history of our community. I think we are at a very important crossroad and I think it is sufficiently im- portant that we have a full discussion of this matter; of where we stand and where we are going and what the dangers are, and what, if anything, can be done. At the conclusion of that it is my intention to recommend to the City of Miami Commission that we enter into a lawsuit, either by joining or by sub Ltiting__a new lawsuit, so that we can protect the position of the City of Miami. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, just for the record, I think it should reflect that Mrs. Gordon is not absent because she is not concerned, but she is out of the City and is unable to at- tend this special call. And I think that the record and the media should be aware of that. Mayor Ferre: Let me say that the immediacy and the need for quick action is due to the fact that on May the 21st there will be a meeting in Orlando where important decisions have to be made, and it is our hope that the impact of the City of Miami joining this lawsuit might have some effect. I might explain that. Why should the City of Miami become involved in a lawsuit, if we do become involved in a lawsuit? The reason is that this 0QY matter is up before a federal court, and it was implemented by a municipality. Metropolitan Dade County is a regional govern- ment in that it is a government of all of Dade County. This is a municipal action because it affects the citizens of North Miami; and Mayor John Stembridge and the Commission of North Miami in their wisdom are doing what they think is best to pro- tect their citizens. We, on the other hand, have got to do what is best to protect our citizens, and therefore I think it would have an important impact that the largest municipality in Dade County has a contrary opinion, and would so express itself in the appropriate way. Now, what I would like to do is for Mr. Paul Andrews to explain specifically what the problem is at present.,in. the...City• of Miami; what the impact is of the im- passe; where we are heading, and what would happen if we do, and how we can get relief. I would then like to ask Mr. Dennis Carter, I would assume representing Metro, to explain Metro's position on this matter, briefly. And then Mayor Jonn Stembridge has got to be at a meeting at five o'clock, and perhaps he can express himself quickly, and then we will go to Garrett Sloan, and then we will open it up for discussions by the Commission, and Mr. Jack Lloyd, I think, is prepared to discuss the legal aspects of this. P. W. Andrews, City Manager: This is an extremely serious matter in so far as the City of Miami is concerned. I'll step back and try to talk loud enough so everyone can see this map that is prepared. The City of Miami is progressing rather rapid- ly with the completion of all the sanitary sewer districts that are under the current bond issue, and at the present time we have several districts under construction amounting to six million dollars. One very important one is in the Liberty City area, which is nearly a square mile. The Liberty City Sanitary Sewer District, which is under construction; three and a half million dollars for that one district alone, and it is slated for completion within the next fourteen months. Additional dis- tricts that are under construction all along this street here (indicating on map), and then the balance of the districts to be completed this year are shown in the orange -reddish color. They will be programmed and under way. Then, following that, within the next two-year period, 1974-75 through 76, we will have expended all the rest of the bond money and completed the districts that are in green and in blue; so we are going to be making a significant area coverage within the city with this bond issue. When those bond funds are completed we are planning to came to the City Commission with recommendations as to the sewering of the remaining area of the City, which is shown in yellow. When we complete our program in '76 we will have two- thirds of the City by area sewered, and about eighty per cent. of the population covered. Our main concern at this stage is that --we can already see the delays that have been occurring as a result of the problem of going ahead with the treatment plant adjustment. What we are fearful of is that this district will be completed and ready for connection and we won't have the capacity in the plant to receive it. And we are extremely con- cerned that if these other districts are completed this year, in the time period that we have left we could be in very serious -- have a very serious problem. Here we have a densely populated area, and they certainly need these sewers badly, as does the rest of the City, particularly in these densely populated areas. Mr. Ferencik has some information; prognosis of what will oc- cur if we don't solve this problem soon in terms of the slow- down in building construction in the City of Miami, and I'd like to have him give you the benefit of that information, recognizing 5-15-74 002 that these are judgment factors that we are attempting to apply to this matter. Robert Ferencik, Director of the Building Department: We have taken the last three years of our building construction evaluation and averaged these out. For the past three years in Miami --this is a composit of all the constuction in the City, which would include the development of around five to six thousand new dwelling units in this community each year, the value of these units is around two hundred million dollars. It should be pointed out that this is an extremely conservative estimate of values. We are not tax assessors, and we used minimal figures for the evaluation of this. It doesn't include the evaluation of property or anything of that sort. There have already been two factors that have seriously affected con- struction in the City of Miami this fiscal year. One of these is the availability of money and the cost of money. The other thing has been the adoption into the South Florida.Building Code of some very, very severe requirements in terms of life safety that pertain to buildings that are over thirty-six feet in height. This in itself we estimate is going to drop our building valuation in this City and lower the number of units that are built substantially, the number of dwelling units, to approximately a hundred and sixty million dollar valuation. When we estimate the impact of this moratorium we find that we are going to get a further reduction down to somewhere in the neighborhood of a hundred and twenty million dollars worth of construction a year, which would be a differential of that off of two hundred, and this is going to have a substantial impact upon the tax base; it is going to have, even perhaps a more important impact on the construction industry. we have checked with the Florida State Department of Commerce today and they estimate that in Dade County there are seventy-one thousand people, or seventy-five thousand people, out of a work force of seven hundred and ten thousand people, who de- rive their income or their livelihood directly from construc- tion and allied industries. Using the fact that there is twenty-eight or thirty per cent. of the population of Dade County which lives in the City of Miami, this puts twenty -some thousand people in jeopardy in so far as their livelihoods or income is concerned. Of course they are not all going to lose their jobs, but it is going to have a substantial impact on the economy of the community. There are going to be other factors that are going to occur, because when people don't make money they don't spend money, and this is going to filter down into other areas of the community as well. Mrs. Alice Wainwright: My name is Alice Wainwright, a member of the State of Florida Pollution Control Board, and I want to say this: I think Mr. Perencik just outlined a very realistic picture of the problem that is facing the entire area, and I feel that many parts of this problem have not been suffi- ciently realized by the public. Ilinow that public officials are very much aware of the economic impact of the lawsuit that has been filed by the City of North Miami. Now I want to say, in respect to the City of North Miami, I know they have their con- victions. Those of us who have been working with some of these 5-15-74 003 problems for Many, many years --and I know those of you on the Commission know that no one has been more concerned about the environment for twenty or thirty years than I have, living here in Dade County, but when it comes to the point where an action by a municipality threatens the welfare of the economy and the health of an entire county, we are indeed faced with a very, very great problem. Now, I won't argue the merits of their case. I have gone up to the City of North Miami's council chambers; I have pointed out what I felt were discrepancies in respect to the position that they have taken. I won't go into details with re- spect to that again. I'll only hit two points. They premise their case on the principle of the distribution of effluent that is used effectively in other communities, but I do want to point out to the people from North Miami that this is not Michigan; that here we have our own unique problems in respect to the water supply so very close to the surface of the land itself, and that effluent spread on top of the ground could filter down, and would be expected to filter down and injure the water supply upon which we depend. Secondly, the City contends that the pro- gram is wasteful of water, and I'd like to point out that it is the management of water supply rather than quantity that is the crux of the water problem facing South Florida. Now I want to move on to possible action by the City of Miami. I want to congratulate you, Mayor Ferree for enunciating your thoughts at the Metro Commission meeting the other day whereby you stated that you felt that it would be a progressive step for the City of Miami to join in this litigation, and I would, indeed,be proud of my city if it took such action. We feel that, on the Pollution Control Department, which has approved this plan, that we need all the support we possibly can, be- cause we are coming down to the wire, and although our friends in North Miami do not believe it, we are indeed in grave danger of losing, at the least the thirteen and a half million allo- cated for the Virginia Key improvement because of the time factor. That money has to be spent, allocated before July 1st of this year. That is the deadline that we are facing. Because of the seriousness of the lack of obtaining federal funds, the possibility, I hope that I can persuade my colleagues on the Pollution Control Board, to put Dade County on the forthcoming priority list, so that there will be protection, so that we would not lost those funds, but what we have to realize is that municipalities and counties all over Florida are trying to ob- tain the federal funds because there simply isn't enough to go around everywhere, and we stand now to receive those funds, and, ironically, legally we are not in a position to do so. Now I do want to invite any of you who could come to Orlando on the 21st to make a presentation before the Pollution Control Board to be there. Mr. Carter: My name is Dennis Carter. I am Special Assis- tant to the County Manager of Dade County. The problem we are facing, Mr. Mayor, and members of the Commission, is something that started back in October of 1970, when the State and Federal Governments held their first in Dade County, and you might recall some of the actions that came out of that conference. 5-15-74 004 pasically it esabarked Dade County on a .uassive master plan to sewer all of Dade County. We have been working, since February of 1971 when we made our first application for planning grant to EPA and HUD. We have been working for over three years now on this master plan. We lave spent over seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars on this master plan. We have spent over three hundred thousand dollars on an environmental assessment statement to satisfy EPA that the master plan was, indeed, a good master plan and what the law called for. So in excess of a million dollars has beenspent, and here we are on the threshold of .receiving federal aid._ We have eighty-six million dollars earmarked•for•Dade County --and when I say Dade County I am speaking about North Dade and Central Dade, which includes the Virginia Key plant, and as you well know the City of North Miami filed the lawsuit. Dade County has filed a motion to intervene in that lawsuit. We have filed a motion for change in venue. We are defending that lawsuit , along with EPA, and we would welcome the City of Miami joining Dade County to inter- vene in that lawsuit to show the federal court, which will be hearing the case, that it is not just Dade County, but that the major municipalities are also involved. I want to make one point clear, and that is that the hundred million dollar law- suit that Dade County has filed against the City of North Miami has no relation whatsoever to this EPA matter. That is a lawsuit involving a contract that Dade County had with, and has still, with the City of North Miami involving the sewering of the North Dade area, for which we are being sued by the City of Hialeah and other municipalities, and our inability to provide service to them is the result of the City of North Miami's in- ability to live up to their part of the contract with us. So that is a separate lawsuit, Dade County versus the City of North Miami, involving the North Dade area. Mayor Ferre: We are not even talking about that. We are not getting involved in that. Mr. Carter: I would also like to point out that the Chamber of Commerce Coalition to Save Eighty-six Million Dollars has invited Mr. Jack Levan and his staff to meet in the Chamber of Commerce meeting room --- Mayor Ferre: Explain who Mr. Levan is. Mr. Carter: Mr. Levan is administrator of EPA for the Southeast Region. He is headquartered in Atlanta, and he speaks for the eight states which make up the southeast region, and Mr Levan has been invited, along with his aides, to attend this meeting next Saturday at 10 o'clock in the Chamber of Commerce meeting room, and I am sure that if you haven't already been invited you will be invited, and I think it is important that the City of Miami be there to show that we are together on this particular important issue. If you have any questions I would be glad to try to answer them, and if you have any legal ques- tions Mr. Alan Diamond, our Assistant County Attorney who is handling the case, is here and he would also be happy to answer them. Mayor John Stembridge, City of North Miami: I appreciate the opportunity of being here today on your personal invitation 005 5-15-74 to me to be here. I would respectfully ask you, as a sister city within the County of Dade, not to join in with Dade County regarding this lawsuit. Regarding the lawsuit which North Miami has against the Environmental Protection Agency I would like to make one point right at the beginning, and that is that the last thing I personally desired to do regarding that lawsuit was to vote for it. In fact, I spent consider- able time, energy and effort speaking to people in the County and the State, the Regional EPA, and even in Washington, D.C., to see if there was a reasonable means of compromise; to see if there was an avenue of negotiation between the County and the City whereby the lawsuit was not needed. In fact, I spent some two hours in Dante Fascell's office with County Mayor Jack Orr, and at the conclusion of the conference Congressman Fascell told us --this was at the very end of January --that if Dade County and North Miami could sit dawn and come to an agreement and resolve this difference between the two entities, that he would lead our congressional delegation to Russell Train, head of EPA in Washington, and would say we have resolved the problem; leave the funds with us. And as we left Mayor Orr was to come back and talk with his staff and with his commis- sioners about such a conference and about such a possibility of a negotiated compromise. He was to come out to our City Hall the following Monday night. But as he and the commission and the City Pollution Control Board and EPA came out that Monday evening there was never any mention of any compromise; never any mention of any negotiated settlement. In fact, the posi- tion thatwas taken by all of these entities was that we have made all the studies necessary; let's move ahead with our plans. The next evening our Council made the decision, all right, you say you have made all of the studies required under the Environ- mental Protection Act under which the Environmental Protection Agency acts, let us have a look at those studies, and if in fact you have done those studies there will not be a lawsuit. On the other hand, if you did not do those studies, then there will be a lawsuit. Our attorney went to Atlanta; went over the studies there, and he came down here and went over the studies here, and he came back in two weeks and reported to our council that he had found in black and white where instructions had been given to the County Planners to explain away recycling, which is alternate systems; to explain away alternate sites, and to do everything they could to justify the plant and the site at Interama. Now Public Law 92500, under which the Environmental Protection Agency acts, says that EPA is to encourage recycling, and if they approve Dade County's Plan, when from the very beginning the instructions were to explain away alternate sites and to explain away alternate systems, it was at that point that in my own mind I felt like EPA was wrong in approving these plans and approvingthis system; and it was at that point that I decided to vote for the lawsuit. Now there is a little more in the background. For years the City of Miami has owned nearly four square miles west of the Palmetto. Why was not this con- sidered as the major treatment plant for all of North Dade? I believe it was very simple; because after the City of North Miami bailed Interama out --you remember the County voted not to do it and the State at that time did not have the money. And our people desired to see this become a reality. They went to the ballot box and voted to tax themselves for twelve million dollars, plus the interest, to save seventeen hundred precious acres of barren beautiful land on Biscayne Bay. And not only that, when Interama needed water and sewer lines our people went to the bat again and put them in to the tune of another three million dollars. Fifteen million dollars that our people went to bat for this 006 5-15-74 project that it might go forward and become a reality. But after we did that Interama still owed three hundred and seventy- five dollars. They didn't have operating funds; and it was at that point that Dr. Gissendaner wrote a letter to Mr. Goode and asked him, in essence: You need to do something about sewage; buy the land from us, and the Miami -Dade Water & Sewer Authority bought eighty acres from us for two and a half million dollars, and with that Interama was able to pay off the three hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars of debt and they were also able to have operating capital with which to operate. That Monday night when the County came out there I commended them for this action, because in essence they became another bene- factor of a dream that people have had in Dade county for years. But later in talking with various ones, with Dick Murphy, Chairman of the Miami -Dade Water & Sewer Authority, and others in places of responsibility --we were trying to talk about areas where we might be able to compromise --and we asked them at this point in time will you substitute your West Dade site for the Interama site, and will you consider recycling for that plant? and in exchange for North Miami not filing the lawsuit, thereby allowing you to go full steam ahead on the Virginia Key plant and the South Dade Plan --that is thirteen some -odd millions of dollars we are talking about is out of funding your '74 funds, which have to be allocated by the end of June of this year, and this is designated to the Virginia Key plant which affects all of these places that your City Manager pointed out today. Now, had we been able to arrive at this type of a negotiated settle- ment, there would be no problem right now. But I would also like to point out that it is not our lawsuit that is holding up the funds right now. There is still a matter that the County has not completely supplied EPA with all of the require- ments that they have to. Mayor Ferre: John, excuse me for interrupting, but that was a matter for discussion on Monday, and that was cleared up in that all of the information is in hand; there is absolutely nothing else outstanding, and that has nothing to do with why this thirteen million dollars is being held up. Let me inter- rupt you --and perhaps Dennis can explain a little bit of this -- that thirteen million dollars is money that was funded in 1973, and the money is in hand. Now, we are not getting it, as I understand it, because it is being held up due to the lawsuit. Let me explain the ramifications, if t may, while you are still here, because I'd like your discussion on this matter. I want to simplify it, because I like to simplify things so I can understand them. Now, recycling, unquestionably is the best thing if it can be done, and if it can be done safely. Now there is some discussion on that. I recognize that in Muskeegan, Michigan there is a plant which is one -tenth of what we would need, which is doing something which might be an answer to this problem, even though many experts don't agree. The problem is this; that if you take water that is not pure, sufficiently pure, and put it into the system, eventually what you might be doing is poisoning the system. Now an alternate to that is for us to take the water and to clean it as much as we can and in the meantime pump it out to the ocean where it goes intc the stream and it gets washed away, and,it is clean enough to where it doesn't make that much of a difference on the Gulf Stream. Eventually, should there be other methods of cleaning that water to where it is pure enough to use, then we could pump the water. 007 5-15-74 the pure water, or the 99.8 per cent. water, or whatever it is, to some other location where it could be treated and then recycled, or re -used, and that in essence is where we are at. Now i understand the dilemma of your municipality. 1 under- stand your problem. You are concerned --and I think to some degree you are right, from what I know of it --that Dade County may have breached good faith --and there have been a lot of ac- Cusations of whose good faith has been breached --but there is no question, because I remember at Interama a few years ago the promise was made that this would be a very clean, non - smelling plant, and obviously the citizens of your community are concerned that with the type of plant that presently is projected there that's not going to be quite the case; and I understand why youYe worried about it, and we in the City of Miami have our worries about how it is going to affect us. That is another subject. But the point that I am trying to make here is that my understanding of it is that at this stage of the game technology is not sufficiently developed or dependable enough --and EPA has accepted that --for us to go into the type of recycling plant that we would all like to see; and what we are in effect doing by spending three hundred million dollars, if we get going on this and spend this three hundred million, it's not wasted money, because eventually when we perfect the system we could pump the clean water back and then recycle that and re- use the water; and that speaks to Mrs. Wainwright's water management question. Now that in a nutshell is what I see is this dilemma. The thing that concerns me --and I would like to ask you --is there was a statement made by yourself and by your commission was that under no circumstances was it your intention to in any way jeopardize this thirteen million dollars that is due in July. And of course now we find that that isn't quite the case --and I am not in anyway accusing you of a breach of faith. I don't think it's your fault, or anybody's intentions to do this. I think what has happened is that this whole matter has gotten ensnarled in this lawsuit by a very capable law firm led by a very capable lawyer by the name of Richard Porter, who is handling your case, and he has very successfully been able to create enough concern, and has gone to Judge Sirica, who is the judge, who is obviously a tough fellow, and you have got a good lawyer and you have got some good arguments, and all of a sudden this thirteen million dollars is in jeopardy. And that, vis a vis is what Mr. Ferencik and what our manager, Mr. Andrews, has pointed out is a matter of serious concern to the City of Miami. Mayor Stembridge: In response to some of the items there; regarding your deliberation today I would suggest that you seek to, since you are gravely affected by this, is that your Commis- sion go on record today seeking to derive some means of negotia- tion or compromise, even at this late date, with the county and with the City. Mayor Ferre: John, as you know, I volunteered --I called you three times at least personally volunteering my services to 5-15-74 • to in any way be a mediator; that I was willing any time of the day or night, any day of the week, to meet with you --and that offer is still outstanding. You know that I talked to Jack Orr yesterday, and at his convenience --unfortunately we couldn't meet today, but whenever you want to, and whenever the Mayor is available, and if you want Ray Goode, or whoever it is, we are perfectly willing to sit down and try to compromise this thing, because I don't think we should ever give up the hope of coming to some kind of a compromise conclusion. Mayor Stembridge: I think that something we might look into; I know that Congressman Pepper was concerned at one time that if theSewer Authority did not put the plant at Interama that the Interama Authority did not have the money to pay the two and a half million dollars back. Well, I can understand that. The County has a Decade of Progress, and why cannot the County at this time take over the eighty acres from the Sewer Authority and allow the Sewer Authority, under the forty-six million of the eighty-six million that is earmarked in '74. You have got over a year with that money before by law it has to be allocated, and during that grace period look at this tract of land that your city has owned for years and years west of the Palmetto, and I am saying consider recycling at this stage. Mayor Ferre: Well, John, the problem is what do you do with the water? Mayor Stembridge: I am not saying recycle secondary water; I am saying recycle tertiery water, where it is free of virus and bacteria. Mayor Ferre: But John, that's exactly what the problem is. Nobody has ever come up with a system that is perfected enough to even put 99.9 per cent. water into the system, and what are you going to do with improperly treated water. That's why Virginia Key works, because right now science has not perfected it to the point where we can recycle it, so we dump it out in the ocean. That's exactly what the Interama site does. Interama is nothing more than another Virginia Key, or part of what Virginia Key is --and that is another matter that we have got to get into some day, Dennis, because it isn't really another Virginia Key; it's only half of a Virginia Key --and the problem is that that water is going out to the ocean at Virginia Key, and that is what it will do at Interama but if you put it out eighteen miles from the coastline, and that's where that land is -- I know exactly where that land is --it is five miles beyond the Palmetto Expressway; and don't you see it is just too far away to pump that water back into the ocean, so the only thing you can do with the water is put it into the aquifer, and if you don't have it 99.9 per cent. pure you really can't do that. Mayor Stembridge: Let me mention one other thing. Since -- of course there has been quite a bit of interest over this law- suit beyond the boundaries of Dade County and the State of Florida. In fact, it has been carried in many engineering trade journals and what have you. And since North Miami filed the lawsuit I have had a number of engineers from various parts of the country to call me or write to me and have said, you are absolutely right in opposing the outfall method. We are being told that this is the state of that an activated sludge plant is the state of the art today, and that the outfall method is the state of the 5-15-74 009 art. perhaps it is, with the expertise and the engineering that is available to is today in Dade County, but evidently there are engineering firths around the country that claim to have the expertise and the knowledge to do it. Mayor Ferre: Excuse me for interrupting you, but I have got to make this point. I am in the cement business, and there are a lot of people who tell me how they can cut this and, you know, and the first thing I ask them is I say that's great, but would you tell me where that system is functioning, and they say, well they are going to have one in Germany in three years. I say, I know that, but is there any one functioning today? And they say, well, know, but we can prove to you that in theory it works, and you are going to save a million dollars a year. I say, look, I am just not smart enough and not wealthy enough, and I just don't have enough time in my lifetime to make that kind of a mistake, so you let somebody else do the experimenting, and once they have perfected it you come back and I'll pay you fifty per cent. more for what you want now, because at that point it is proven. And unfortunately the problem is that in theory you happen to be right, and I happen to agree with you in theory, but in practice it is too big a risk for this com- munity to take. And what we are planning to do really does not preclude what you want to do, because hopefully, eventually we will get to that. Once somebody in Germany, or in Japan, or in Michigan or in Boston has really shown that it can be done, and then at that point we will get the tertiery treatment, whether it is done by x-rays or atomic things, or whatever it is that it is going to take to do it, and then we will pump pure water out to some other place rather than the outfall. In the meantime I just think you are just whistling Dixie, with all due respect to all you Southerners. Mr. Plummer: John, you know the easiest thing in the world to do is complain and say I object, and I don't want to do this or that. We all agreed pretty much that July one is, in fact, the final date. Is that correct? Mayor Stembridge: On the '73 funds; that's correct. Mrs, Wainwright: If the State and the EPA are not able to come to a conclusion by, really, the early part of June they are going to have to allocate that thirteen --- Mr. Plummer: So July one is the date that I am traveling under. Now do you pretty well concur on that, John? It is well and good --and let me say that I have looked into your ob- jections, and in fact you do have, in some cases, some basis. But let me tell you what is more important to me. What is the City of North Miami advocating if this doesn't become a reality? We know what is going to happen by your lawsuit . Your lawsuit is going to deny the citizens of not just North Miami, but of South Florida, the right of going ahead. It is going to stale- mate; it is going to make us go back. So we know what is going to happen with your lawsuit if you keep it on; no question, the moneys are going to be lost for infinitum, but what is the City of North Miami going to do, selfishly for your own pople, for my people who you are going to deny by this lawsuit; all of the people of South Florida --what are you going to do to rectify; 5-15-74 oiu to be able to stand Up and say to the people we stopped EPA from doing what they wanted to do, but now here is the solu- tion that we are going to do to make it right; and I have not heard that, and I think in good conscience, John, when the City of North Miami Beach says we object and here is the reason why, I think it is a demand upon the City of North Miami to come and say now here is a better solution, which I have not heard. I wish you would speak to that. Mayor Stembridge: That's a valid point. I spent consider- able time talking to many different people, and regarding sewer systems, the greatest cost --of course the capital expenditure is tremendous, but the federal government participates, maybe three-quarters of the cost, so you can kind of rule that out as the major cost to the taxpayers. The major cost comes in the operation of a sewer plant. Now at the Virginia Key plant today your taxpayers, users of the Virginia Key plant are paying ten cents per thousand gallons for treated sewage, and that doesn't include the labor. You have quite a large labor expenditure at that plant. Now, then, when you go to secondary treatment your price to your consumers is going to jump to thirty-five cents per thousand gallons. Now keep these figures in mind. They don't tell you what it is going to cost to go from secondary to tertiery treatment by 1985, which you are going to have to do by 1985. Now if you started building a plant today at Interama it would take four years to build it, and you have only got ten years to go to tertiery recycling, and at that point you have got to go back to the taxpayers for the capital expenditure to convert this to tertiery recycling before 1985. There is another cost. Mr. Plummer: What do we do; what loss North Miami do; and what do the people in Dade County and particularly South Florida do, between now and 1985? We just can't sit around on our hands. Mayor Stembridge: Here is what we suggested. We are not even interested in bringing Virginia Key or South Dade into the matter. In fact, we were looking at a compromise on the North Dade situation, and had we been successful in that one little request there would be no question about your thirteen million dollars. You would be going full steam ahead, even now, on your Virginia Key Plant. You would have your money;and the South Dade plant, but we couldn't get someone to sit down and to come to an agreement regarding the North Dade situation. Mr. Plummer: Well,.John, let me finish this train of thought. You say if. Well, if is by the boards, because in fact we know what reality is, and it is that if that I think that something has got to be appealed to the City of North Miami, and I think it is only fair that the City of North Miami has the right to travel along the route that they saw fit, but I still think it is incumbent upon the City of North Miami not to deny the right of other people that if you do, then we look to the City of North Miami to make it right for all of South Florida. I think that's only fair. 5-15-74 011 Mayor Stembridge: Now if you were in my position, and you know that the Public Law 92500 says that EPA is to encourage recycling, and that your attorney presents to you where instruc- tions were given to the planners to explain away that, and to explain away alternate sites, and the law says that EPA is to require a complete study of alternate sites and systems, would you, for expediency's sake, would you go against what you be- lieve to be the right course to take? Mr. Plummer: John, in no way would I ever advocate that a man take a course other than his conviction; never. O.K. But let's go back to another point, and the point is --and it was brought out very clearly from Atlanta on down --that this was a living plan; that this, in fact, was not a hard and rigid set of rules; that in fact, if during the process of planning, which will continue; if during the process of construction, that a better or an alternate system was devised that this system is not totally closed; that new concepts, new thinking, new planning could be incorporated --- Mayor Stembridge: No. Mr. a closed funding. Mr. of Water Plummer: Then I have to disagree, John. This is not door, except it is a closed door July 1 for federal It is a federal document. • Garrett Sloan, Director of the Miami -Metro Department & Sewers, appeared. Mayor Ferre: Garrett, I have known you in the work that you have done since 1967 when this was part of the City system, and I have talked to you•on many occasions. I have visited with you, and I have watched that system grow, and I have been amazed at your knowledge --I want to say publicly one more time, because I have said it in the past, that I have complete con- fidence in your knowledge of this subject --I want to ask you, point blank, on the record here, a basic and simple question. In your opinion, to your knowledge, is there a system which would give us tertiery treatment, practically, economically? If so, where is it working, and if not, in your opinion are we doing the best thing that we can possibly do under the circum- stances? Mr. Andrews: Would you add, in the capacities that we are talking about? Mayor Ferre: Yes; obviously the capacities, because that would be a major factor. Mr. Sloan: I know of no other metropolitan area where the types of sewage and industrial waste and other waste are re- ceived in a plant where an effluent that would be safe to put into the drinking water supply is being produced. There is, of course, the Lake Tahoe situation where they pump the water over the mountain instead of Lake Tahoe, but that is not comparable at all to a large urban area such as Miami. That i;, of course, very important. Second of all, this three square mile area that has been spoken of is upstream from our water wells, upstream from our water supply; and that land which we have title to is subject to a deed restriction for water supply purposes only, and it is doubtful at this time, without negotiations with the I.I. 012 5-15-►74 Board, which Might be very extensive, that the purpose of that deed restriction could be modified. Mr. Plummer: Even if it were the case, do you concur that this is a living plan; that this is not a closed thinking and a closed door? Mr. Sloan: Certainly. For example, we, in our plant site locations and acquisitions of land, which is not cheap to pur- chase, we are insuring that we have adequate sites so that we can put in advanced treatment units.. We are doing that every- where. Mr. Plummer: To me that is the key factor; that this is not a hard and closed -door type of'situation. It is something that can change if better methods become available. Mayor Ferre: How much money will we have lost in the out - fall system, and in the secondary system that will be planned at Interama if we develop a tertiery system that would make that obsolete? Mr. Sloan: We would lose absolutely nothing, because the secondary treatment would have to be part of the tertiery system. Mayor Ferre: No, you would lose the outfall lines --of course they are already installed, arertt they? They would have to be improved, though. Mr. Sloan: You would have to have the outfalls as a safety valve, because when you are operating these huge plants you can have upsets, especially when they are based on a biological principal, you have to have a safety valve, and the ocean out - falls would certainly serve as that in the event that you were normally pumping your water west and recycling. Mayor Ferre: In other words, you would need that anyway, would you say? Mr. Sloan: That's right. Mayor Ferre: So that if in the next five years a successful system is devised that we crn install in that area to build up a tertiery system, what we put in now would not be lost. Is that accurate? Mr. Sloan: That's accurate, sir. Reverend Gibson: Did I hear you say, representing Metro- politan Dade, that it is,your hope that we might join you in this lawsuit? Mr. Carter: I say if it is your desire to join Dade County in intervening this lawsuit between North Miami and EPA, we would welcome it; yes sir. Reverend Gibson: Let me state it again. Did ycu say to me that it is your hope that we will join you in this lawsuit? Whatever stage or whatever type; that's'your desire; is that right? Mr. Carter: It would be most helpful, yes sir. 013 5-15-74 Reverend Gibson: Mr. Sloan, I want to ask you a question. You have been running this water system for us for years, is that right? Mr. Sloan: Yes, sir. Reverend Gibson: It is under your supervision that we turned over five hundred million dollars worth of water system; is that right? Mr. Sloan: Water and sewer; yes sir. Reverend Gibson: All right; can we find a better way any- where to do what we need to do for this community than we are now, or we may probably join with, than has been advocated? Mr. Sloan: Not to my knowledge, sir. Reverend Gibson: All right; let me raise one other ques- tion. I am sure that you are smart enough, and there are ways -- and we don't have a lot of money, but there was some money around --that if there were some experts, men in the field, you would have had them here at different times testifying that there is a better way, and a more convenient way. Is that right? Mr. Sloan: That's right. Reverend Gibson: One other question. If you were put on the witness stand before the judge, would you be saying to the judge the same thing you are saying to me? Mr. Sloan: I certainly would. Reverend Gibson: A11 right; I am satisfied. I am ready. Mr. Andrews: I don't want to prolong this any longer than you have to, but I think you have arrived at another potential solution that you ought to lay to rest as either a solution or not a solution. Mayor Ferre: But Paul, if we get into that now --I'll tell you what. I am perfectly willing --I don't want Dennis Carter to go, because after we pick our bone with our colleagues in North Miami I want to pick a bond with Metro; and I don't do this very often but I am going to do it today, and that's the subject matter that you want to bring up, but I think that that -- I don't want to get involved at this time. I am going to recog- nize the attorney, so that we can get the perameters, and then we will hear Dr.Feldman, and then I hope we can wrap this up, and then we are going to go after Metro on something. John Lloyd, City Attorney: First of all I would like to recognize Mr. Alan Diamond and thank him for his cooperation for developing what we have developed today. I have three resolutions here. First a resolution authorizing me to inter- vene in the present case, if that is the wish of the commission. I don't think it is necessary for me to explain to the Commission 5-15-74 014 the reason for this. We have been all through that. Now the second resolution is a resolution urging the Congressional Delegation for Dade County to take such action as is necessary for the protection and preservation for the grant of eighty-six million dollars, which is a resolution substantially similar to the resolution already sent to the delegation by Dade County. Mayor Ferre: A little improved. Mr. Lloyd: I hope so, sir. The third resolution --- Mayor Ferre: With all due respect to Mr. Diamond. Mr. Lloyd: --is a resolution authorizing and directing myself to determine what effect, if any, current litigation between the City of North Miami and the EPA has on the rights and obligations of the City, and to advise this Commission at its next regularly scheduled meeting of the remedies, if any, which may be available to the City legally. Mayor Ferre: Let me point out, John and Dr. Feldman, why I asked the City Attorney to prepare this last resolution. Don't you see that with what you have done to protect your citizens you have also affected our citizens. Now if this were a matter in which what you are doing just affects ybur city and your citizens, that's your problem and you are the elected officials to worry about that. But what you are doing in effect also affects the City of Miami and the citizens of Miami, so therefore we really have to --we are elected to guard over their interests, and that's exactly what we have to do. So that's the intent of this, and as much as I would dislike to see an action between the City of Miami and North Miami that unfortunately may have to be a possibility. We don't want to get into that at this point, but we are authorizing the City Attorney to look into that pos- sibility, and then we will fully discuss this with you and in- form you of everything we do before we do it. Mr. Plummer: I have to go back to the point, and I would like, since Mayor Stembridge has asked us not to intervene, to ask once again of Mayor Stembridge, what is the City of North Miami going to do for the citizens of the City of Miami if this federal funding is lost? What do you propose to do for my people? Mayor Stembridge: Well, I offered the suggestion to you that you join North Miami in seeking to help our people, and that is with you four gentlemen going to the County and saying, listen, we have all got a problem; not only our City but the City of North Miami and the entire Dade County has a problem. Why is' the problem in all parties sitting down and each one tabling his concerns and let each of the others look at his concerns, weigh them objectively, consider all possible solutions, and see if you could come up with the solution that is acceptable and satisfactory to every party. Now that's the answer. Mr. Plummer: Well, of course, John, our Mayor has already offered to be anarbitrator, and I am sure that's the offer of this entire Commission. Mayor Stembridge: Well that's the answer right there. Mr. Plummer: No, I don't think that is the answer. Let me tell you why I don't agree. That is the answer to a question UJ 5-15-74 rained by John, the Mayor of North Miami, and legitimately so. Mayor Stembridge: That's a question raised by all the people of North Dade; not just by myself. Mr. Plummer: I am asking the question, assuming you pro- ceed with your lawsuit and July one comes and goes and the federal funds come and go, what do you propose to do for my people that those federal funds have gone out the door? It's just that simple, because that's what my people are going to ask -of me; what did you do to protect our rights? Mayor Stembridge: I would say what I am trying to do is, through the U.S. Conference of Mayors and also our congressional Delegation and Senators and that is to see Congress continue funding the type programs where we clean up our waterways. Mayor Ferre: John, that's great, but what do we do in the meantime? Mayor Stembridge: The State Pollution Control Board has I don't know how many more millions of dollars, even right now, to allocate for clean-up of our waterways. Now, then, should you miss out --I am just going to the furthest extent that could happen to you --should you lose out, which is your hypothetical question, it is not going to change the fact that Dade County is still the number one polluter in the entire southeast region, and it's still not going to change the facts under which the Environmental Protection Agency operates, and that is to clean up our waterways, and if they should reallocate this amount of money now, certainly they are going to have to come back out of their other funds and reallocate the funds to you. Only by do- ing this maybe you will be able to go to recycling. Mr. Plummer: But aren't we really saying, John --and I am not concurring with your remark that we are the number one polluter --but aren't we really saying that if we are the number one polluter and we don't get these moneys we are really not doing anything about it. Mayor Stembridge: Let me just sum up one thing --and I do appreciate your inviting me down here today. I thought there was exceptional courtesy extended me in calling me about that, and I certainly thank you, and I think that was in the finest spirit and tradition of good will. I realize that this is a tremendously complex problem. It has been a problem that has been with us; it is a problem that is facing every governmental entity on the face of the earth, not only in America but around the world; and from the very beginning when I went to the first conference with the County Commission and the EPA and the other ones, it was my thought and my concept that with the leaderships we.have in Dade County and the farsightedness of the leaderships in Dade County that we would not settle for grasping at a straw, so to speak, when something more substantive is required, and that we sit down and really objectively look at the entire scope and see if we could, somehow, some way be a leader i:i the clean- up of our waterways. We have heard that it is so much better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, and light that candle as an example, not only to the nation but to the world that here is a community of leaders who are willing to get down 5-15-74 016 to the basids of one of the greatest problems confronting civilization today, and that is pollution. Jacques Costeau trade the comment in Time Magazine that if Florida continues dumping in its waterways it could well nigh be a barren penin- sula before the end of the century. We know what the drought situation has been with the lack of fresh water out in the Everglades, and what the potential may be if we continue dumping fresh water out into the ocean when it is possible to clean it up and to free it of virus and to free it of that bacteria, and put it back out there where it will help our environment and help the Everglades and the animal life, and the human life that our natural resources have got to support. I know that you gentlemen are going to have to do what you feel you must do with all of the information that you have, and I want you to know that as far as I am concerned there has never been anything personal regarding this entire issue with me, with Mayor Orr, or anyone else. It is just a matter that I felt like this is what I should do regarding my responsibil- ity; and I know that you are going to act in the best interest to protect your people, and I commend you for that spirit. Mayor Ferre: Dr. Feklcan, we know that there is probably nobody more erudite than yourself, or more interested than yourself, and you could lecture us here for hours on end. Now, Mayor Stembridge had a five o'clock appointment, and I did too, and I would be most grateful if we could be brief. Dr. Feldman: I promise. As a matter of fact I hadn't planned to say anything, but some of these comments, I think, require clarification. I don't think that you gentlemen are aware of the fact that the outfalls are not there now that you are talking about. Mr. Sloan, if you play back these tapes you will•find he said when you asked him that question he re- ferred to the fact that yes, sir, the outfall is there, but this plan calls for the construction of two new ones, one of them ten feet in diameter for Virginia Key, not to add on, but to replace the Virginia Key pipe, and a brand new one one mile south of the existing one that North Dade built in '56 that is nine feet in diameter. The cost of the two new outfall pipes alone will be fifty million dollars. I don't think that we can say that that's insignificant and we are going to use it for a safety valve. We would be very willing to say, OK, use the present ones for safety valves. You have got them there. But if the federal law states that you can't pump it out there after 1985, what the Mayor said please remember that seven years after those outfall pipes are built they are going to have to be turned off, because there is to be zero discharge of pol- lutants. Please don't forget the new pipes that are proposed. The other comment that I had was --- Mr. Plummer: Dr. Feldman, you are speaking that all of the proposed outfall pipes would be fifty million. Dr. Feldman: The two outfall pipes that have not been constructed but are supposed to be part of this plan, with the pumping stations that go with it; not the treatment plant, will cost the taxpayers fifty million dollars, and they will have to be turned off in 1985. That's one of our objections. The other thing that I think must be clarified is this state- inent that apparently is wrong about the thirteen and a half million. Now I don't question at all the source of your 017 5-15-74 information, but I am going to quote to you paragraph two of the memorandum that was filed with Judge Sirica dated May 8th, Now it states in paragraph 2--and that memorandum was to Judge Sirica from the United States Department of Justice requesting a seventeen -day extension of time for EPA to respond to North Miami's motion for a preliminary injunction. I will quote. This is what was filed with Judge Sirica. Dade County's grant application is still incomplete and the award of funds will not be made under any circumstance prior to May 29, '74. There is nothing about North Miami in that statement. Mayor Ferre: All right, sir, now let me answer you, be- cause I think it is important. A11 of the sources that I am quoting are right here in this room. Mr. Dennis Carter, rep- resenting Metro; Mr. Garrett Sloan, representing the water & Sewer Department of Miami -Dade; Mrs. Alice Wainwright; all the people. It was a public meeting and they went on record and they strongly said that that is not the case as of --and this was two days ago --that all of the papers are in and there is nothing pending. Now, let me ask you in turn, because --I see John isn't here, but he didn't answer me --you, the City of North Miami, went on record saying that you would not jeopardize that thirteen million dollars, but that's exactly what you are doing. Dr. Feldman: Part of the injunctive proceeding was a request that these funds be held in abeyance and saved for this county. Mayor Ferre: Didn't you publicly make a commitment in the City chambers that you had no intention of holding up those thirteen million dollars; that you did not want to jeopardize them; that they did not affect you; that they did not affect this lawsuit; that you in no way wanted those moneys held up? Wasn't that statement made by the City? Dr. Feldman: I didn't make that. We don't want this county to suffer, and we want all of these funds saved for this county for the best system. Mayor Ferre: Wasn't that statement made at the Chamber? Wasn't that statement made by the Mayor and by that Commission? Wasn't that the spoken,word that was representative of the will of that Commission? Dr. Feldman: I think it basically reflects the fact that we don't want to see anyone suffer, and under those circumstances that brings me to another comment that I had concerning the money. Now, regarding this business about Dade Count, Mr. Mayor, this is EPA's choice not to let you have the money; that it isn't ours. Mayor Ferrell Well, naturally, with the lawsuit before Judge Sirica, and with you making the type of demands that you are making, what do you expect? Dr. Feldman: Well, the EPA has made the decision that they will not split up this county. That's not our decision; that's EPA's. 5-15-74 016 • Mayor Ferre: All right. Dr. Feldman, is there anything else, because it is new 5:20, and 1 think we have to bring this thing to a head. Dr. Feldman: Two more things, Nr. Mayor and gentlemen. I• appreciate your tolerance. I think we are all aware of the fact that we've got a horrible drought, and this part of the country is going to go up in sand; there is no doubt about it. One of the major factors we have challenged with this plan is that there is no plan for water management, and if you ask the con- sulting engineers and Mr. Sloan, what are you going to do to save the water and replenish it, there is no answer. Back -pump- ing was proposed, and is fraught with so many dangers that the Corps of Engineers and the Flood Control District won't do it, and yet what you are doing by this plan is locking in an irre- versible loss of three hundred and fifty million gallons of water a day that can be saved. Mayor Ferre: Why? Can't we reverse that eventually when we get proper tertiery treatment and pump it back? Dr. Feldman: You can reverse anything if you have got enough money and if you can't do it now, Mr. Mayor, but the point that we are saying is that we challenged that fact and claim that we can prove that you can recycle now. Mayor Ferre: Has it ever been done? Dr. Feldman: Mr. Mayor, I have for your information (dis- tributing printed matter) thirty-five plants in Florida have been approved for recycling by the Environmental Protection Agency and by the Pollution Control Board, and funded. What I have shown you there is the document that appeared in a publi- cation known as Overflow,. which is a trade journal, and it states on the top of it, Waste Water Recycling Beginning at St. Pete. The entire area is to be recycled, and what we are asking for for all of Dade County, why should we be second- rate citizens when it can be done elsewhere? Mayor Ferre: Garrett, come on up, because that's an im- portant question, and we asked you that specifically, and now -- Father Gibson asked that, and that's a key question. Dr. Feldman: We planned to bring this up in the federal suit, and this is just one proof of many that other areas of Florida are being recycled. Mayor Ferre: Now you said, Garrett, that it could not be done. Would you explain this. Mr. 'Sloan: Yes. First of all, what he is talking about as thirty-five, or how many, is where they take secondary effluent, that certainly isn't in any shape to, for drinking water, and they sprinkle it out on golf courses., It's a play on words. That's called recycling. To rep -use water; put it back in your aquifer for drinking purposes, it's not being done in thirty-five places in Florida. I don't know of a single place in Florida where it is being done; so it's a play on words to call it re- cycling, rather than to admit what it really is. It is being used as irrigation water only. 5-15-74 • Mr. Plummer: I asked a question to which I didn't get an answer, so t think that pretty well answers the question. Mr. Mayor, t have only scarcely looked over the three resolutions, and I think we have got to know all three before we pass on the first one. Mayor Ferre: Let me, briefly if I may, explain why one has nothing to do with the other.. This resolution here is a reso- lution to join the lawsuit. The second resolution is one in which we tell our Congressional Delegation, fellows, don't let this money out of your hands. And the third resolution is auth- orizing the City Attorney to look into the damages that maybe the citizens of the City of Miami are suffering for the possi- bility oftour'instituting a lawsuit against the City of North Miami for the damages they are causing us. Now that in itself is not an action by us. We are just going to study that possi- bility, that's all. Mr. Plummer: It's just a threat. Mayor Ferre: It's not a threat. It's just that we have got to protect ourselves, and we have got to protect our citizens. Reverend Gibson: Due to the fact that I asked Mr. Sloan, who is, in all probability, the oaily single authority, or the recognized authority in this matter, that there is no better system known, nor is available at this time, I offer the motion that we, a pronto, join with the County in filing the suit, or being a party to, or filing one of our own; either one that is an appropriate step, as recommended by the attorney. Mr. Plummer: Do I understand, Mr. Lloyd that number one is a lawsuit that the County has asking the federal court to dis- miss North Miami's action? Is that basically the basis? Mr. Lloyd: Not exactly. The original action was that the City of North Miami versus the administrator and the Environ- mental Protection Agency and the City and the Dade County, Metropolitan Dade County has made a motion to intervene in the lawsuit. Now the first thing you have to do is intervene, and subsequent motions are made. Now this is what we are going to do is intervene. Then afterwards --I have discussed them with Mr. Diamond, and we have prepared tactics and strategy which we are going to do. Now we are agreed on it. We arrived at this inde- pendently, and we are agreed as to the tactics which we are going to do. But this authorizes us to intervene in the lawsuit, and then we make appropriate motions thereafter to protect the the interests of Dade County, respectively, and the City of Miami respectively. Mr. Plummer: The tactics, after developed, would not be executed without the approval of this Commission? Mr. Lloyd: No, sir; we would proceed legally. This gives us the right to go ahead and develop the legal tactics as we go along, I could, if you wish to instruct me to do so, I can always inform the City Commission as we go along as to what tactics we are pursuing. No problem with that whatsoever. 5-15-74 02( Mr. Plummer: With the assurance that you will keep this Couiuuniasion inforMed at all times as to the tactics that are being employed, so that if we disagree we can immediately call a halt to the tactics being used. Mr. Lloyd: No problem with that whatsoever. Thereupon the following resolution was introduced by Reverend Gibson, who moved its adoption: RESOLUTION NO. 74-394 A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE CITY ATTORNEY OF THE CITY OF MIAMI TO INTER- VENE ON BEHALF OF THE CITY OF MIAMI IN THE CASE OF CITY OF NORTH MIAMI, FLORIDA VS. RUSSELL E. TRAIN, ADMINISTRATOR, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY; JACK E. RAVAN, REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY; AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, CIVIL ACTION NO. 74-371 IN THE U.S. DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA (Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on file in the City Clerk's office) Upon being seconded by Mr. Plummer the resolution was passed and adopted by the following vote - AYES: Reverend Gibson, Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso and Mayor Ferre. NOES: None. The following resolution was introduced by Reverend Gibson, who moved its adoption: RESOLUTION NO. 74-395 A RESOLUTION URGING THE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGA- TION FROM DADE COUNTY TO TAKE SUCH ACTION AS IS NECESSARY FOR THE PROTECTION AND PRESERVA- TION OF A GRANT OF $86 MILLION BY THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, AND DIRECTING THE CITY CLERK OF THE CITY OF MIAMI TO TRANS- MIT CERTIFIED COPIES OF SAID RESOLUTION TO MEMBERS OF THE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION FROM DADE COUNTY (Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on file in the City Clerk's office) Upon being seconded by Mr. Plummer the resolution was passed and adopted by the following vote - AYES: Reverend Gibson, Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso and Mayor Ferre. NOES: None. 5-15-74 041 The City Attorney read the following resolution: A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE CITY ATTORNEY TO DETERMINE WHAT EFFECT, IF ANY, THE CURRENT LITIGATION BETWEEN THE CITY OF NORTH MIAMI AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL, PROTECTION AGENCY, ET AL, HAS; ON THE RIGHTS AND OBLIGA- TIONS OF THE CITY OF MIAMI AND TO ADVISE THE CITY COMMISSION AT ITS NEXT REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETING OF THE REMEDIES, IF ANY, AVAILABLE TO SAID CITY Mr. Plummer: I just don't like this attitude. You can call this third motion anything you want, but I am going to call it the way I read it, and that's a threat. I would rather go with a motion of the correct attitude being that we encourage once again that reasonable thoughts prevail; encouraging the City of North Miami, the people of South Florida and Dade County to resolve their differences. I think that's the spirit we need to travel, rather than a de- fensive attitude. Mayor Ferre: I agree; let's withdraw this. Mr. Plummer: I would like to see this withdrawn, and I would be happy to make a motion urging the Council of North Miami --- Mayor Ferre: We have already done that. Didn't we do that a couple of months ago? Mr. Plummer: Once again I reiterate that we, the Council of the City of Miami, will encourage such an action, and also will participate, if requested, to help in any manner that we can to eradicate this problem. Thereupon the motion, introduced by Mr. Plummer, seconded by Reverend Gibson, and entitled - A MOTION URGING THE CITY COUNCIL OF NORTH MIAMI, THE PEOPLE OF SOUTH FLORIDA, AND DADE COUNTY TO ATTEMPT TO RESOLVE IN A REASONABLE MANNER THE DIFFERENCES THEY MIGHT HAVE IN CONNECTION WITH LITIGATION INVOLVING THE CITY OF NORTH MIAMI AND RUSSEL E. TRAIN, ADMINISTRATOR, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY; JACK E. RAVAN, REGIONAL AD- MINISTRATOR, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, CIVIL ACTION NO. 74-371 IN THE U. S. DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA; AND PLEDGING THE COOPERATION OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA IN SUCH AN ENDEAVOR was adopted by the following vote - AYES: Reverend Gibson, Mr. Plummer,•Mr. Reboso and Mayor Ferre. NOES: None. Mayor Ferre: Before we leave there is one very important item and one minor item. Mr. Carter and Mrs. Wainwright, I'd like for you to listen for just one minute because this is an important thing, and we want to---. You know, there is a lot 022 5-15-74 • • of irony in this thing. Say Miami turned over a five hundred million dollar plant and that plant that we turned over --and we turned over our authority --Metro, for years, did not want it, because they wanted to create their own authority; they wanted to create their own system, and, you know, when there were few people that were talking about this we were snubbed, because I was involved in all that as a member of the Chamber of Commerce, and I was the lone voice, because t remember in 1962 at a Chamber of Commerce meeting when I said the logical thing is to use the City of Miami as a vehicle on this, and everybody said no, no, we are going to do it by creating a County ---well that didn't work out. So Lo and Behold, now, everything is proceeding because the federal government came back and said you guys are out of your minds; you ought to use what you have as the basis. You have got five hundred million dollars al- ready into it. Use that; expand it, and use that as the ve- hicle, and we went along with that. Now, all of a sudden we find that we are getting black -jacked, and that's the word that I have got to use. There is,no other word. We are get- ting hit over the head. I am hearing statements that Metro -- that tell us that we are going to have to pass a special tax and all of the cities are going to have to pay for it. The City of Miami, you know, we are not going to take that into consideration that you have already put up five hundred mil- lion dollars; you are going to have to pay again. And not only are they beginning to tell us that we are going to have to pay again, they are also telling us, and they have told us in fact, that we can't use our own system. Now, if we said, no, we are not going to turn it over the Metro, then the Liberty City area that is in question, and the area over in the other part, could in effect, after these tanks are finish- ed in June, hook up, but since it would be our system we would say, look, you are on the short end of the stick, and West Dade doesn't get on, and South Dade doesn't get on, and nobody else gets on because the City of Miami is first, and you guys just wait in line and we get ours first. Now, after our generosity now you are telling us, no, we can't do that, and we have got to wait in line with everybody else. So I don't -- I want to just publicly say that I kept my mouth shut the other day at Metro, but that's going to be the subject of a serious discussion with this City of Miami Commission. And I want you to know that before we resolve this matter of who owns the land that is holding up the Chase Manhattan Bank on the bonds, this is going to be very clearly spelled out, and in writing. We are not going to do this with a lot of words. And until we get that, we don't move no more. And I just want to say that publicly on the record. Mr. Plummer: I think what has got to be said, Alice, to you and Mr. Carter, is that on May the 30th we are holding a special commission meeting in the afternoon, and we are going to speak to such an issue as the Mayor has just brought out to the extent and term of that this transfer of title has never been signed, and we want you to know that if certain things aren't done by Metro it ain't going to be signed. We want you to know that. What I am saying is that ;•we have some very serious concerns as it relates to our people who have provided this Virginia Key plant who are now being told, there ain't no more room at the inn. 023 5-15-74 • Mr. Carter: I think it should be understood that the fact that the City of Miami Department of Water & Sewers has been combined with the Dade County Water & Sewer Authority, and is now the Miami -Dade Water and Sewer Authority, this is not why you are in the lawsuit. The master plan was started in 1971. Mr. Garrett Sloan and the City of Miami water & Sewer Board completed their portions of the master plan prior to April of 1973 before it became the Miami -Dade Water & Sewer Authority. The point is that the Environmental Protec- tion Agency and the State Pollution Control Board look upon Dade County as one region, and not separate entities, but one entity, and it's for this reason that you have a unified master plan for all of Dade County, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference if the City of Miami still operated under its old system of its own Department of Water & Sewers. That makes no difference whatsoever. Mr. Plummer: Who told you that, sir. Mr. Carter: I am making the statement. Mr. Plummer: Well, then let's talk more to the state- ment oh the 30th of May, because I disagree with the statement you just made, sirs because you seem to forget very easily, sir, that we had the only operating successful plant. Mr. Carter: That's not the issue, sir. Mr. Plummer: That's part of the issue. It is also part of the issue that the people of the City of Miami were willing to obligate themselves in higher water and sewer rates to put that outfall line. Mr. Carter: Agreed. Mr. Plummer: But what you are not saying is that it was Metro who the City concurred with when we said, yes, we like the concept of a regional plan. So let's put the facts on top of the table, and let's put all the facts on top of the table because the facts simply remain that the City of Miami trans- ferred over something that was a facility to yolkto a regional to a regional concept, if you will, but now the people of the City of Miami are being told, you are going to be penalized like everyone else. I don't think it is fair; and I have heard this from our people. Mayor Ferre: There is one other thing that I want to add to all this, and Paul, perhaps you can speak to this. One of the solutions --and I didn't want to bring it out at that point, because I am afraid it might have confused this whole thing with North Miami --one of the things we want to talk about, and I am specifically and officially asking you right now, on the record, if you would tell me why we can't petition to divide Dade County into three districts and get the money to solve our portion of it, and then release that from the lawsuit. U24 5-15-74 Mr. Carter: The master plan was done in three districts, the North, the Central and the South. The environmental assess- ment statement was done in three districts. The environmental impact statement from EPA was done in three districts. It was EPA's decision that they were not going to allocate the funds on a district by district basis; that they were going to look at Dade County as a whole. it was ETA's decision that they were not going to approve South Dade and Central Dade until North Dade was approved. That was their decision; not ours. Mr. Plummer: Well, that's one thing I have to agree with. That's right. Mr. Andrews: What I am addressing myself to is we are ac- cepting without any argument that that's the way it has to be. If everyone is so interested in solving the problem that greatly affects the City of Miami, if you want an area of accord from North Miami, Dade County and everyone concerned, including State officials, this would be an area where we could reach agreement on, because now we have a real serious problem; North Miami is objecting to a certain area; go up there with a com- plete understanding by everyone to get that revised. They are human beings who made the decision, and now we are affecting mass areas of the City of Miami. The largest densely populated area in the State of Florida. Mr. Plummer: Paul, that sounds good, but let's face the cold facts. There are a lot of people that would like this eighty-six million dollars, and old federal guidelines sitting up there say, hey, if you don't want it, fine; goodbye, we are going to take it somewhere else. They are very quick to tell you what you have got to do; they are not that quick to tell you where you will get the money to do it with. Reverend Gibson: But J.L., isn't is also true that -- what are we going to do? Are we going to always be kicked around? Somebody has to give, and in the bargaining process we gave all that we had, and those others gave nothing, liter- ally, and are we going up there and say, look, man, come tango with us. There comes a time when we have got to put enough starch in our backbones, and even if we have to lose it that way, and I --something you said that kind of irritated me, be- cause I take the position that, since we gave so much, our people shouldn't be suffering as a consequence. Somebody should have thought about us. And you know what that tells me? Unless some of us are up there watching, thinking and looking, we may well be in trouble. I hope that isn't misunderstood. ADJOURNMENT: The meeting was adjourned at 5:45 o'clock P.M. ATTEST: H. D. SOUTHERN CITY CLERK MAURICE A. FERRE MAYOR O2o 5-15-74 CITY OF MiAMI INDEX "SPECIAL" MEETING DATE: May 15, 1974 ITEM NO DOCUMENT IDENTIFICATI ON COMMISSION ACTION RETRIEVAL CODE NO. 1 2 3 CITY ATTORNEY TO INTERVENE ON BEHALF OF THE CITY OF MIAMI-CASE OF CITY OF NORTH MIAMI VS. RUSSELL E. TRAIN PROTECTION AND PRESERVATION OF A GRANT OF $86 MILLION BY THE ENVIROMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY CITY ATTORNEY -LITIGATION BETWEEN THE CITY OF NORTH MIAMI AND THE ENVIROMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY R-74-394 R-74-395 74-394 • 74-395 0001