HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1975-01-10 MinutesCITY OF MIAIVII
SPECIAL
COMMISSION
MINUTES
OF MEETING HELD ON January 10, 1975
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
CITY HALL
H. D. SOUTHERN
CITY CLERK
RALPH G. ONGIE
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
•
c41
January 10,1975
'AIDE NO,
1
2
CITY OF MIAMI DEED OVER 60 ACRES OF PROPERTY
CONTIGUOUS TO EXISTING FACILITIES AT
VIRGINIA KEY-DADE COUNTY GIVE 5.3 MILLION
DOLLARS AS A LUMP SUM CASH PRICE FOR THE
PROPERTY -BUILDING AN AUDITORIUM ARENA
COMPLEX IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA
APPROPRIATION OF UNUSED FEDERAL REVENUE
SHARING FUNDS FROM FISCAL YEAR ENDING
SEPTEMBER 30TH 1974-TO BE EXPENDED IN
FISCAL YEAR 1974-1975
R-75-72
ORD.8345
1=15
16
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
On the loth day of January, 1975, the City Commission of
Miami, Florida, met at its regular meeting place at City Hall
in said city in special session called by the Mayor to conside-
business of public import. The meeting was called to order at
8:40 o'clock A.M. by Mayor Maurice A. Ferre with the following
members of the Commission present: Reverend Gibson, Mrs. Gordon,
Mr. Plummer 8nd Mayor Ferre. Absent: Mr. Reboso.
An invocation was delivered by Reverend Gibson, who then led
those present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag.
The following discussion occurred:
Garrett Sloan, Director Miami -Dade Water & Sewer Department:
Some of this will be a bit repetitive, but I am going to be
very brief. Our big cor� cern is to proceed as soon as possible with
the construction contract. We have had a number of them advertised
and recommended award tc EPA for their approval already for some-
thing in the order of fifteen million dollars and within the next
three months we are going to be up to sixty or seventy million
dollars. So we need to clear the way of all of the remaining un-
resolved matters so we can proceed. As most of you know we did
receive the final EPA approval on December 31st for the North
District Plant in the amount of twenty-two and a half million dol-
lars; just within ten days. So here we are trying to proceed with
awarding the contracts and building the projects. We have one
remaining rather serious and thorny obstacle, and that is the reso-
lution of the prob lem of the location of the sludge line that has
to carry sludge from the Interama Plant, the North District Plant,
to Virginia Key. We, of course, have been over that with the
Miami City Commission in rather lengthy session on December 19th,
I believe, and we felt that the economics of the sludge line, at
least as the consultants had prepared it, had conclusively shown
that it was more economical to come on the mainland for a number of
reasons, which were stated and presented by the engineers. At that
time Mr. Grimm, the Public Works Director for the City of Miami,
pointed out a major error in the design and in the estimates of cost
especially where the sludge line was designed to cross Biscayne
Bay, a distance of about two and a half miles, between Bayfront Park
and Virginia Key. The error was that in the final stages of design
the pipe was put at a very great depth, a depth of twenty-four and
twenty-nine feet below sea level, whereas the original estimates
had been made at a much shallower depth, and of course much less
cost, and the difference in cost with this was in the order of a
million seven hundred thousand, whereas we had a seven hundred
thousand saving by going on the mainland versus Miami Beach, and
with this additional cost in the final design of a million, seven
additional, it made it look like it was a million dollars cheaper
to go down the Miami Beach route rather than down the Miami route.
However, a reexamination of the deep depth crossing of Biscayne
Bay indicated that there was no need to go to that depth; that it
was an overly conservative engineering design, and one which we
haven't found necessary to practice in the past, from the stand-
point of our agency's experience. So we are now back, as we feel,
back to the original cost 6omparison, which clearly indicated a
considerably saving by proceeding down the mainland, and I think
it would be proper at this time to have each of the two engineering
organizations present their alternatives, which is, I believe, the
key to the whole issue.I think most people are familiar with it on
1 JAN 101975
the Miami City Commission, and also with our authority, and you
folks now with the County Commission should see the presentation
by the two, you might say, differing points of view from an
engineering standpoint.
Mr. Plummer: Since you now have gone back to the engineers
and gotten more definitive figures, I would like three figures
from you. Number one, the cost of on -rite plant; number two,
bringing it down the City way; and number three, bringing it d'.an
the Miami Beach Way.
Mr. Sloan: If you.give me just a few minutes, and as these
men proceed with their presentations, I will give you those figures.
Mayor Ferre: Garrett, I've got a time problem. I have got to
be at a ten o'clock meeting, so we have an hour and fifteen minutes,
as far as I am concerned; so we really don't have that much time,
so it is important that we move quickly into the subject.
Mr. Sloan: I am trying, personally, to move it along, and I
think it probably would be proper for the presentation by the City
of Miami's engineering staff now, and we would follow that with our
presentation, so you could get the whole picture.
Vince Grimm, Director of Public Works: You remember before
the basic cost differential came in in the fact that the Bay cross-
ing, just as Mr. Sloan said, and that alone, we felt, made a dif-
ference in the estimate of about a million, seven hundred thousand
dollars; so the cost on Miami Beach was about six million dollars,
if I remember correctly, and the cost now for going down Miami,
with this cost differential, would have made it about seven million
dollars. That, in essence, is what the presentation was. That was
using exactly the consultant's figures. Now, since that meeting
I took the time to call and write to other contractors to more or
less verify that the figures we were talking about were in the ball
park, and they are, so there is no major argument on that cost.
Mayor Ferre: Then, Mr. Sloan, if I understand what was said
before, placing --and you yourself said that the best thing, if we
didn't have any other restrictions, to do would be to actually
place that plant at Interama, and it would cost about twelve million
dollars, and that would be the best and cheapest way of solving the
problem, but we can't do it because we have environmental problems
that are affected. What that really means is that the City of
North Miami and the people of northeast Dade County protested so
vigorously that it isn't being done, because I am sure that the
science doesn't change over a ten or fifteen mile distance. In
other words, it is just as difficult to get rid of it at Virginia
Key as it is to get rid of it at Interama. But, nevertheless, the
point is that, since you say that we can't do it --Mr. Redford has
explained to us that that would jeopardize all these moneys --the
question is that you have to bring the sludge line. Now do you
agree with the premise that it is a million dollars, or a million
and a half, or what have you, cheaper to bring it straight down,
which would be down Miami Beach, than to bring it down the Miami
side?
Mr. Sloan: No. The study that was made by Mr. Grimm of the
plans as prepared by the consultants, their final drawings, does
show a design that would increase the cost by a million dollars,
and to that extent, of course, I agree with Mr. Grimm. However,
the point I want to get over is that those plans are wrong, and
that the original estimate based on a shallow depth of bury of ap-
proximately four feet under the baybottom across the bay results
_ in a difference of a million, seven hundred thousand, and we have
instructed the consultants to re -design the line, and very frankly
2
JAN.10197 .
•
there is so much engineering and activities that our authority is
involved in at the present time, that I personally, and some of our
top engineering staff, have not reviewed those drawings of the bay -
bottom crossing which were proposed, and it was not brought to our
attention until the discussion with Mr. Grimm on December 18th.
But we have ordered a change in deisgn and the project is being
designed now so that that differential cost will be eliminated,
and we will be back, in a sense, to where we started out, with an
approximately seven hundred thousand dollar advantage to comin'
down NE 2nd Avenue through the City of Miami.
Mr. Grimm: That part we still disagree on a little bit.
When we talked about the crossing, that's one set of figures.
There was another discrepancy that we disagreed with, and that
was where the twin 16-inch force mains could terminate on Miami
Beach. Remember the consultant's estimate was based on going all
the way to 13th Street. Our information is that Miami Beach is
rebuilding some lines as far north as 58th Street.If this happens
and you terminate there, then the cost figures for going down Miami
Beach and the cost figures for going down Miami are almost identi-
cal.
Mr. Harvey Ruvin: When we talk about a Miami Beach alternative,
where, exactly, are we talking about?
Mr. Sloan: I believe that the engineers have maps, but I think
it's intended primarily to come down AIA to Baker's Haulover, across
there and come through Bal Harbour on Collins Avenue, and from that
point on I am not certain.
Mr. Ruvin May I ask a following question, then? The costs
that you are talking about I assume are purely construction costs,
and have not taken into consideration the fact that wherever you
put the sludge line you are going to have disruption; you are
going to have interference with traffic patterns; you are going to
have interference with business, and are there costs; yes I know
that, but there are many alternatives for people traveling north
and south on the Miami side, whereas at Miami Beach, believe me,
when the tourists come, it's one parking lot from Haulover, from
163rd all the way down to the dog track. My inquiry would be, has
there been any cost estimate with regard to the disruption to
business and to the traffic in the community on the Miami side as
compared to what I think would be a devastating impact to the
tourist industry and the people on Miami Beach that don't have
alternatives to travel.
Mr. Sloan: Our response is that it is a serious inconvenience
to lay a pipe anywhere. We did not try to put a value on that,
but we were aware that it appeared that it was a bit easier to lay
the pipe on a four -lane street, such as NE 2nd Avenue as compared
to a similar four -lane street which is a more critical traffic
artery, but we did not t.ry to place a dollar value on that in any
way.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Sloan, actually we are really where we were
before, and all we are doing is repeating the same information we
repeated before. As I understand it your position has not changed,
and you feel that the best location for it would be along the Miami
side, and that's what you are recommending to your people. Is that
correct?
Mr. Sloan: Yes. We have tried to look at all sides of this.
I want to stress that. It hasn't been a quick thing or an easy
thing. I also would like to comment that we are dealing with the
lesser of evils here. We are dealing with three or four alterna-
tives , and when we study these issues, none of which are pleasant
:3
JAN 1 0 1975
and you don't make a decision of this type based on what is an
ideal solution; you make a decision based on what is the least
objectionable solution to the problem.
Mr. Plummer: I'd like to haVe the answers, Garrett, that I
asked for.
Reverend Gibson: You know, we ought to get tired in Miam of
everybody has planned, and then to bring the plan. We ought to iet
tired in Miami that everybody must have it comfortable but Miami.
I think we expressed ourselves before, and I anticipated then that
the attitudes were not going to change, and they haven't changed.
They are the same this morning as they were when we met before.
My bretheren, you are either going to open up and give, just like
you want us to give, or we are wasting our time, spinning our
wheels. It seems to me that you should not want to always want to
put the people in the City of Miami to discomfort. Our tourist•
industry, our tourist bpsiness is as important to us as Miami
Beach's tourist businesv is to them, and to anybody else. I don't
want to always lower the boom on Miami. That seems to be the gen-
eral attitude, and I want to voice my disapproval this morning so
everybody would know it. I don't care. That's the way I feel, and
I am not going to hide it, and I am not going to let anybody leave
here under a misapprehension.
Mr. James Redford: Mr. Mayor, I think, since many of you have
to go, I'd like to just summarize the issues. I don't believe they
are engineering issues, and I'll tell you why. Sure, there is a
possibility of doing anything under modern engineering techniques.
Where it may not be particularly desirable on an engineering basis
to put a pipe down Miami Beach, there are pipes down Miami Beach
and they could be put in, even though it may not be advisable. The
point is it is now about mid -January. This sewage fight has gone
on since 1968. The plans have been in the public eye ever since
that time; maybe not for the sludge line, but they have been moving
in an even progression. The point still is this: If we talk
about putting it down Miami Beach now you can kiss that money
goodbye, and there are no new moneys for 1976. There was no new
funding passed by Congress this year. The only moneys available
for 1976 are holdovers which were not spent for the prior years,
from 1972 to 1975. Mr. Baljet is here. He will tell you that
probably at some date, maybe close to May, if we have not ironed
our difficulties out and we are not ready to go ahead, those funds
will be allotted to some other municipality in the State of Florida.
We cannot re -design a new location for this sludge line between now
and May 1st and get it approved by EPA. It cannot be done. Now,
how will we pay for this? We will not get funding, and we will not
get funding for something like a hundred million dollars. This in-
cludes the Miami Beach outfall project, because they are all part
of the same thing. It more than likely will cause the North Dade
line to be, the whole North Dade project to be scrapped, because
the sludge line is an integral part --and EPA has constantly held
us up in the Central District because of the suit in the North
District. They look upon it as one single entity. Whereas we may
not have the funding, we still have to obey the law, and that is a
no -discharge law, and we are in violation of that law right now,
but because we are under way we are forgiven it. Thirdly, we still
would have to go ahead'and do the clean-up, and we would have to
do it on our own, without federal funding. The things that are
held up could be myriad things. On public housing, as Mr. Adams,
who is here this morning can tell you, there are a number of units
which cannot be built in this county anywhere until sewerage is
available. The point is this: This plan has been on -going all
J"\N 101975
these years.' It has been available to everybody. There have been
innumerable public hearings on this plan, and I say now that we
have got to proceed or forget it and pay for it. It is not a
question to me --I live in the City of Miami --and I was one of a
number of people who started this whole fuss back in 1968--and
i'll tell you right now that I will suffer. I am glad that
Reverend Gibson is speaking up for the people of Miami, of which
I am one, and of which{Mrs. Wainwright, who preceded me on the
Board was another, and iintil recently Mrs. Wilson here was another --
but the point is I am not talking who is right and who is wrong;
I am saying that if we ere going to clean up we have got to get it
going or we are going to miss it and have to pay for it ourselves.
Reverend Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I am not going to keep quiet.
Seemingly I am the only culprit. Let me say this: I want you to
note what Mr. Redford said; that where we were going to put the line
was never put on the table. Why didn't we put it on the table?
That tells me something else. I am not for holding up the project.
What I am saying is I hope that from now on when the County starts
dealing with the City of Miami that they come in court with clean
hands and put them all on the table; open up the book; let us all
see the page. That's all I am saying.
Mr. Stephen P. Clark: Father Gibson, I'd like to respond. I
am partially responsible for this myself, because I see some of my
colleagues out there, fine members of the Miami -Dade Water and
Sewer system, and this plan was actually devised back when I was
the Mayor of the City of Miami back in 1968, and it has been
programmed over a period of six or seven years, and now the fetus
us just about to be borne. We have worked out about three knotty
problems, in so far as the price of the land over at Virginia Key
that Mr. Plummer brought up, about the appraisals, we have worked
that out to the satisfaction of the City and the Miami -Dade Water
and Sewer System. The only thing that is hanging us up at the pre-
sent time is the location of the line. I, too, live in the City
of Miami. I have lived here for forty years, and I guarantee you
that if there were an alternate route that would go right through
the middle of the sky I would be happy to propose that, but this
Miami -Dade Water and Sewer System and Board have worked diligently --
and this has been in the open. It has been in the open for the
last five years that I know of, and I know full well that if these
gentlemen, who also live in the City of Miami and Dade County
would feel as if they were doing something that would be to the
detriment of the people of the City of Miami --now we are talking
about the people of all of us; we are not just talking .tbout a
little segmented few of three hundred fifty thousand --and I know
they are fine people ---
Reverend Gibson: You know what North Miami told you, too.
Mr. Clark: Yes, I know that.
Reverend Gibson: They are part of the county, too; and so are
we; and they don't want it up there, but they want to give it to us.
And by the way, let me say this: You have been here forty years,
but I was borne and bred here. I have been here fifty-nine years.
Mr. Clark: Well I am coming right behind you. But I wanted
to make sure, Canon Gibson, this has been on the table for a num-
ber of years, I think even back when Mrs. Wainwright served on the
Commission. Mrs. Wainwright, if you.would like to say something,
I am co-chairing this with my colleague.
JAN101975
Mrs. Alice Wainwright: I just want to address myself very
briefly in support completely of what Commissioner Redford has ,
said; and I don't think some of you realize that if we throw a
roadblock into the whole plan at this time, we can kiss the moneys
goodbye that we are anticipating to finish this project, and as
Mr. Redford said, the burden then shifts to the individual tax-
payers to pay for this water treatment program, because we have to
do it. We are in violation as it is now. Now, in response to my
good friend, rather Gibson, with whom I have worked twenty-five
years or so, I want to point out one thing. I don't know whether
or not you had considered that if this plan is thwarted at this
point, the important work in cleaning up some of the sewage prob-
lems in the central part of the City of Miami will be brought to
a screeching halt, and I -:kink that you not only have 1.erved all
of the people of Miami weil, but you have always been concerned
with the problems of the people of your particular area that you
represent. And you and I know that the areas out there in the
northwest sections of town are virtual cesspools, and the experts
say --and I don't wish to throw a scare into the proceedings --that
it has been a miracle that we have not had a major epidemic in the
City of Miami because of the lack of proper water treatment facil-
ities, and Father Gibson, therefore, you know, as a practical
politician and an enlightened one, that this world in which we
operate today is a matter of trade-offs. As Mayor Clark said, we
don't like it going through the City of Miami, no, but as Mr.
Sloan said, it is the lesser of evils, and therefore let's think
of the benefits that we are going to get by moving forward with
this program, and on the other side think of the detriment that
will occur if you stop it at this time. Now I can say, as a mem-
ber of the pollution board, that EPA is fed up with the delays
that have occurred here in Dade County. I can further say as a
former member of the pollution control board --and Mr. Andrews
was there and many people in this room were there --Commissioner
Ruvin was there --that we held onto that money for Dade County
when the funds were being allocated by the narrowest margin be-
cause it was said by members of the pollution control board,
look, there are other cities and other areas that are ready to go
ahead without squabbling. Let's give it to them. And so we held
that money. Commissioner Ruvin came up to speak for Dade County,
and he knows what a tough fight that was. Do you want to blow it
at this point? Do you want to throw people out of work and stop
these projects ?Because that's the issue. I want to be proud of my
city; continue to be proud of my city, and I hope today that you
Commissioners in your wisdom will look at this problem as a whole
and vote to support this plan and move forward.
Reverend Gibson: I give you my commitment. My commitment is
to do what is best for the City of Miami and for the County. I am
for the best interests of the people. But you talk about the trade-
off and the politicians. I am not going to say something else that
needs to be said. I think that in the trade-off process that we
shouldn't always have to give all; that other people ought to give,
too. That's the point I am making. And until people in this county
understand that Miami is here to say; it isn't going to die, as long
as I live it won't die because I can always be proud of the fact
that I was borne on 2nd Avenue and 12th Street, northwest, and I am
not going to ever run away from that. You see, most of the other
people can pack up and say, I am tired of Dade County, and go back
where they came from if that's what they want to do. I am not say
ing thats what they are doing. But I just believe when we come to
politically deal with these issues we ought to be honest, forth-
right --we ought to --Mr. Redford told us; he said where we were
going to put the lines was not on the table. That's the only
thing I am saying.
Mrs. Wainwright: Father Gibson, I don't quarrel with your
point, but I do ask you, and I feel that you are a big enough man,
as I have known you over the years, to weigh the advantages and the
.t " h 1 0 197 5
disadvantages at this time.. Thank you for giving me the oppor-
tunity to• speak.
Mr. Plummer: I would still like to have the figures that I
asked for.
Mayor Ferre: All right; and then after that I am going tr-
ask another distinguished lady, Mrs. Susan Wilson, who has recently
been appointed by the Governor to represent this area, `to addre.s
us, and then after that I am going to ask Mr. Peter Baljet,
Director of the Florida Pollution Control Department, who is also
one of our own, to address us. But, tars. Wilson, before you do
that, let's get the answers for Mr. Plummer.
Mr. Sloan: The cost of the on -site sludge facilities, if
they were constructed at the Interama Plant, are approximately
fifteen million dollars. If they are constructed --and I am talking
about the package of facilities to treat and process sludge; the
same basic facilities --they would be about ten per cent. less be-
cause of the economies of lumping them with another project, and
that is the sludge facilities that ve have to build anyway at
Virginia Key, so over there they would cost about thirteen million,
five hundred thousand.
Mr. Plummer: You mean for the additional facilities.
Mr. Sloan: That is for the basic facilities to treat sludge.
That's the order of it. Now, I think, though, the question that
you asked, at least my understanding Was, what would be the total
cost if you built the sludge facilities at Interama versus putting
in the pipe line and building the additional facilities at Virginia
Key? Well, of course, the cost of the sludge line is a cost that
you wouldn't have if you built the facilities at Interama. So,
what we are talking about is that the entire cost of the sludge
line would be, more or less, or additional cost, plus doing the
job on site, so that to answer your question, taking into consider-
ation the ten per cent. reduction when you combine the facilities,
in the one case, on site, it would be about fifteen million, and
in the other case it would be about nineteen million; for the total
package.
Mr. Plummer: So what we are really talking about; the on -
site facility would be cheaper.
Mr. Sloan: Oh, yes; there is no question in my mind. I have
stated that to you when you asked me that question before.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, there has never been any argument --
there is no question that the sludge facility at Interama is better
and cheaper by five million dollars. Nobody has ever argued that.
Mr. Plummer: The point that I am trying to make --and I don't
want the finger of accusation being pointed at the City of Miami --
for the benefit of the stumbling block, which seems to be the City
of North Miami, which have had the right, which we have not had, to
say no. We are going --the taxpayers of Dade County are going to
expend approximately four million dollars more to give them the right
and privilege to say no that we never had.
Now, I recall to Mr. Redford's attention a conversation which
he and I had in his office about two or three years ago where he
told me that the on -site plant was the only way. We spoke of the
cost of sludge lines, recycling, where it would go, and it was Mr.
Redford who explained to me that. the on -site plant was the only thing
that could be used in the future; so the privilege of North Miami,
where the guilty party is, to give them the privilege of saying no,
the people of this county are going to spend approximately four
million dollars more than is necessary, and I think that is the gut
issue.
7
1',! ♦ .` 1975
Mrs. Susan Wilson: I should like to second what Mrs.
Wainwright said, and what Jim said, for this reason; that we
are talking about four million dollars here, but we are also
talking about the expediency of the program, and for four million
dollars saved we might lots over a hundred million, and I think
that's what we have to consider right now. We are almost there.
The alternatives are before us. This is, to me, the only expe-
dient alternative to take at this time; the one that Mr. Sloan
proposes.
Mr. Redford: Could I just answer Mr. Plummer for just a
moment. When I talked to Mr. Plummer it is true we had planned
to treat the sludge at the location of the plant. This is a
requirement that was more or less fostered by EPA back when there
were several proposals for sludge treatment this was the only one
which we could get OK'd. It would be preferable, as Mr. Sloan has
brought out, certainly on a cost basis and a convenience basis,
but the point is when the EPA supports the position of North Miami
to the point that sludge has to leave there, as part of the compro-
mise; not the compromise with us; the compromise with EPA and them,
why then I can't see that ---should be held up on that one.
Mr. Peter Baljet: Much has been said --and I am convinced in
my mind that you know the issues at hand. Let me just highlight a
few, if I may --and that is specifically to you, Corrmissioner Gibson --
and I commend the Commission of the City of Miami for calling this
meeting to really look in depth at all the facts surrounding this
issue, because clearly you must make a decision here, and when you
make that decision you must have perfect peace of mind that you have
done that on a strong foundation of facts. I have done that for the
Department of Pollution Control, because I have been reviewing
myself for the past year the fantastic effort that has gone into the
design of the Dade Sewer Program, and I am convinced that the sludge
line in particular --and there were ::ix or seven alternatives to
that line and they were subjected to an environmental impact state-
ment, which in itself is one of the most fantastic efforts that
we can make in these days to secure a course of action, and out of
a variety of courses the best one that we can live with; and that
impact statement has chosen the location of the sludge line as we
know it now; and the City of Miami had its input in that particular
design and that particular course of action. It was subjected to
public hearings, and we are doing nothing more today than re-
addressing the issue over and over again. It is like a bad dream
coming true. We went through this in the City of North Miami; we
are going through it again in the City of Miami. Let me lay some
facts on the line --and when I do that there is always, of course,
the inuendo that I am threatening this Commission with a course of
action that I have to recommend to the Board taking the well-being
of the State of Florida at heart. Nothing, of course, is farther
from the truth. Rather I would hope that you can place yourselves
in my shoes as an administrator of a sewage construction program
in the state of approximately 3.8 billion dollars state-wide, with
only a hundred and sixty million dollars in revenues from the federal
people coming through. Now the Dade County project alone, in the
last twelve months, has increased in cost some thirty-five million
dollars due to inflation. The moneys that are coming around the
corner for next year will not allow new projects to start. They
will just allow the continuation of existing projects. To make a
long story short, if we do not move with great urgency on the in-
stallation of this particular sludge line, it will bring the entire
Dade County Sewage Project to a screeching halt. It will bring that
to a halt, Mayor, and I have no other course of action than to ask
for the State Pollution Control Department to consider the re -allo-
cation of these funds to other much needed projects in the State of
Florida.
8
JA N 1 0 1975
Reverend Gibson: I want to respond, because you said you
were speaking to me. Let the get two things straight. I am not
here to hold up this project. I am now saying for public consump-
tion, I don't like the way you deal with us; not you but those
who were responsible. Let the record be crystal clear. Let me
say another thing. It is significant that when the plans are
drawn the very area now putting upon my back is the last to be
considered always. Amen. I am talking about that black area, +-hat
central area. Mr. Mayor, you see, could talk about Bayshore Drive
and all that. I am talking about central downtown where the black
folk live.
Mayor Ferre: You see, part of the problem in all of this --
and I thirk you all have to recognize the reality ---let me give
you an exa.nple of what Father Gibson is concerned about. Yesterday
we were talking about rapid transit. One of the corridors is going
along Douglas Road, and Coral Gables approved it. Of course they
approved it on the Miami side, and that's where it is going. For
some strange reason every time something happens it is always
Miami has to pay. Steve knows that. He lived with that one for
ten years. It is always Miami that has to pay the price, and yes,
I know, we are going to get better transportation, and I understand,
but it's always, the sewage line always goes through Miami, and
the pumping station is going to be in Miami, and --you know we were
forced to turn over the Water and Sewer Department, and the Water
and Sewer Department, you know, is worth five million dollars. If
the county --Dennis Carter knows that better than anybody else. He
struggled with that for two or three years trying to get your own
authority going and could'.t do it. It didn't work, because you
didn't have --the Chamber of Commerce; Lester was here, he remembers
four or five years ago the big fight that there was at a Chamber
Governors meeting as to what kind of, who was going to have the
Sewer Board.
(Mr. Freeman responding from the au3ience. Inaudible)
Mayor Ferre: I am just trying in defense of the City's posi-
tion; I want you to understand what this is all about. And it is
just a pattern that has recurred over the years. Now, ladies and
gentlemen, let's see what we are talking about and see if we can't
get down to the nitty gritty of this. This is the third meeting
that we have had. We have talked about several things. Number one
is a piece of property which is 5.3 million dollars for sixty acres
at Virginia Key. which the county has accepted to buy and we have
accepted to sell. Now this is going to be earmarked for a conven-
tion center, or what have you, cultural convention center. Now, in
addition to the four and a half million dollars that the City has
had since 1964, and that 'includes a piece of property which the
County is going to make available to us ---
Mr. Clark: There is a suggestion, and I think it is within
the realm of possiblity--I talked to Mr. Carter earlier --Dennis
you back me up, if I am not mistaken, just a moment before you got
here --there was a suggestion if they are going to put 5.3 million
dollars along with the 4.5 that they have of their own disposal
right now, that we can provide some type of piece of property
within the governmental complex of the governmental center downtown,
because this is part of it. Do you think that is within the realm
of possiblity?
9
JAN 101975
Mr. Plummer: Do you think it is possible? I thought that
was part of the negotiation. We even spelled out how big the
piece of property would be. Now what is this maybe, could be?
Mr. Clark: First of all, Maurice made the suggestion --and
it was alluded to by Canon Gibson and Rose Gordon --that they o.,:ld
put the money back in. They don't want the money; they want to
build something new downtown --and I think it is incumbent upon our
Commission, if you are willing to do this and you are receiving no
moneys back at all, that we should be willing to bend over and kit
it into the complex somewhere, at the best location, because it is
earmarked for that area; and I see no dissenting votes from my
colleagues on the County Commission, although we don't have a
quorum or a regular meeting, but I am sure that we have some in-
fluence here and we can .bend a few arms and say, now, look, if
they have gone this far-1 want to answer Canon Gibson; I want to
tell him that, yes, you have gone and now we are going right with
you.
Mayor Ferre: Frankly, we all know, Ray (County Manager Ray
Goode) that it is going to take more than ten million dollars to
build the kind of a place that you want and that we want, so we
are not there yet. That's just ten million dollars, and from
everybody that I talk to it costs well over a thousand dollars a
seat to build one of these thii.gs, so ten million dollars is not
quite going to do what we all want to do, but we are a lot closer,
and it is very important for all of us and the government center.
Now, the other thing that has been bogging us down is the question
of rates and the recognition by the Miami -Dade Water and Sewer
Department that the City of Miami had contributed what might be
considered a five hundred million dollar asset, and we didn't want
to have to pay for the ticket over again to get into the theater
again, you know. We have already paid our way in. Now, Garrett
Sloan has come here before this Commission and explained some of
the extra hook-up charges, which I think satisfies me that the
newcomers are going to be paying their fair share to make up for
what we have already given, and I am satisfied on that point. The
other point the_t was left is the sludge line, which is what we
are meeting about today. What worries me more than anything else
is not the inconvenience and traffic, which is bad, but being
stuck forever with, how many manholes and how many of those clean -
out places?
Mr. Sloan: Fifty-nine. There were quite a number of air
release chambers which I think , frankly, have been exaggerated
in terms of how often they would be used. You only use them to
place the line into service, and after that you rarely, if ever,
use them again.
Mayor Ferre: Garrett, I am taking you completely on your word
on that, because that's the only way I am going to vote on it, be-
cause if I were to think that there are fifty-nine of these air
valves, or whatever you call them, that are going to be opened up
and smell up the city all the time, there is no way --I don't care
if you lose a hundred million dollars, or two hundred million --that
I would vote for this. Now, on the premise of your assurance that
this is only for emergency measures and very seldom used I am going
to go along with that aspect of it. I'd like to see if we can
settle it this way, Ray. Yesterday the City of Miami Commission
passed a series of --because we get down on our hands and we beg
all the time, and sometimes our begging doesn't get noticed, but
we have a whole series of projects that we are asking the state --
it is not really your responsibility, but you have got a lot of
input because if you give some cognizance to some of these public
works projects that the City wants; you know, we are down on the
totem pole a little bit, For example, our number one project here
according to the administration is West Flagler Street, from the
SCL to 42nd Avenue. It's not even pn the schedule now. And then
we have SW 27th Avenue from Bayshore Drive. If we could get some
i 0 JAN 101975
kind of a little push, on the County's part for some of these
projects -rand I am just following what Mrs. Wainwright just sai3•;
that these things were all a question of, you know; and that's
what we are meeting here for, in good faith. These are things
that help the County, too, but if we could get the County support-
ing some of these fix -ups that the City needs to have on our
streets, then perhaps we might not feel too bad about getting ome
of our other streets torn up for two years.
Mr. Clark: Mr. Goode, I think that we could make a priority.
You know you give and take, as Mrs. Wainwright said, in this game.
You have got to. And I think with the list that Mr. Andrews has
furnished to the Commission that you can survey this and do your
utmost, and we as a Commission, in our package to the Iegislature,
would include this in our priorities. At least to show some intent
on the part of the County Commission that we don't want to tear up
the City of Miami, and if some parts of the City have to be fixed
up --have you seen this list?
Mayor Ferre: All I am saying is tear it up, but why don't
you fix up another part of it while you are tearing?
Mr. Plummer: Let' me ask this. The motion that this City
Commission passed on the 19th of December, I understand it. The
only thing that we are meeting here this morning for that is up
in the air is the exclusion of the sludge line coming through the
City of Miami. But everything else .of this resolution is intact
and will remain intact.
Mayor Ferre: That's my understanding.
Mr. Plummer: Does anybody understand it differently?
Reverend Gibson: I don't want to assume one earthly thing.
What I want Mr. Mayor to do is to enumerate those things we asked
for so that Mr. Goode would know them and that Mr. Mayor Clark will
know them, and the other members of the Metro Commission would
know them, and you would know that we are voting with the full con-
sciousness that this is what we expect, because the County Manager
didn't know about this piece of land business; you know what I am
talking about? Let's enumerate, them, Mr. Mayor, because that's the
only way I am going to vote.
Mr. Plummer: I am trying to get that. I think that we are
protected if we exclude the one sentence as it refers to the sludge
line. I want the County to be fully aware when they leave here this
morning that all the rest of these items that are covered are part
of the agreement; that they accept that as part of the agreement,
and Mrs. Wainwright, that's going to have to be the trade-off.
Mr. Clark: Mr. Mayor, in the event that this is passed by
this Commission, could this be put either as an emergency item, be-
cause you have got two weeks until the next regular County Commis-
sion, or maybe, even, we have a zoning meeting Monday or Tuesday,
if this is OK'd today, and submit it to'our people. I think it is
sufficient emergency to get this, if this is OK'd today by this
Commission, that we get it to our Commission as soon as possible.
Is this possible; to get into a special meeting?
Reverend Gibson: I want to keep faith with Mrs. Wainwright.
I want to prove that I don't want to be no stumbling block. I
just want to make sure and get it on the table so everybody will
understand Gibson. I am prepared to offer the motion.
11
JAN 101975
Mrs. Gordon: I second the motion. I want to also make a
short comment that 1 have your concern, Father, and the Mayor's
and Plummer's, too, but there is no alternative that can save us
and save the money. I Want to also point out, Father, that the
location 2nd,Avenue is not northwest, it is northeast, which will
not interrupt the life style and won't hurt the central black
area you mentioned before, and alsb that the entire length of the
sludge line exceeds the boundaries of the City of Miami quite 1
distance, I am not sure how much mileage exactly, but there i
quite a bit, and that soma of it is going through other municipal-
ities, and I have been led to understand that there is agreement
from those other municipalities, so that there is no further hold-
up. We are the last of the Mohicans, so to speak.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Lloyd (City Attorney) this isn't the resolu-
tion we passed. Oh, this is the motion. Where is the text of the
thing? It was much longer and there also was a commitment on the
part of the Manager and the County Commission to have a joint
meeting with us at the beginning of the year to talk about tax
equity, and there were a lot of things.
Mr. Plummer: This is what we passed, here.
Mayor Ferre: Well, Mr. Lloyd, let me tell you, s r, that you
prepared a document for men which we accepted and approl.ed, and if
this is what we passed, let me tell you that I made a mistake, and
so did you, and so did everybody on this Commission, because this
is not the original document that you gave me.
Mr. Lloyd: No, it wasn't, and you did,'t pass that.
Mr. Plummer: The original documert was pulled, withdrawn, and
this one is the one that was dictated by you. And as far as I am
concerned, I want it understood. Gibson, are we talking about the
same thing, now? This motion, with the exclusion of the sludge line.
Reverend Gibson: I am for getting the land,
money, and then let them go put the sludge line.
Mr. Plummer: This one also brings out that
a check the day the thing is signed.
and getting the
they will give us
Reverend Gibson: Well, all right; I want the sludge line go
because I don't want to lose that money; I want to take care of
the other people in the County, and that's all I am saying. If I
get the money next week, OK; if they sign it six months later, OK.
I just want to make sure that the County understands that we expect
them to live up to all those things in there.
Mr. Plummer:
talked about here
party agreement.
Well, OK, because also something that hasn't been
this morning is the final signing of that tri-
It has never been signed by the County.
Mayor Ferre: It's a part of this motion.
Mr. Plummer: Do you understand it, Ray? (No response) Did
you say yes. (No response)
Mr. Ruvin: T think somewhere along the line somebody should
say this. I am privileged to be able to say it; that the Metro
Commission really is very much appreciative of the fact that the
City of Miami came to our support at the time of the North'Miami
difficulty, and I think you ought to be commended for looking after
the interests of the City, and the County as well, in helping us
in that battle with North Miami, and I think the earlier comments
that I made with regard to what I think to be a devastating impact
in Miami Beach on tourism if the sludge line would go there, and
the response that Canon Gibson made; I wouldn't want anybody to
interpret this as a fued or dispute between those cities, and I
12
JAN 1 0 1975
would point out that Ulu tourist industry on Miami Beach, which
of course has tremendous benefits, tax -wise and otherwise, to the
rest of the county and the City as well. I am sure that if you
took a survey of the people that are employed in the hotels you
would find that an extremely high proportion of them, are black
Cuban residents of the City of Miami, and that would have an impact
on them. I am glad that we are all working together to come un
with a program that we can meet the deadline with; that we can not
end up with something that is going to be to the delight of every
City Manager that is waiting on that list to come up to Orlando
or Tallahassee, wherever the next meeting is going to be, and glee-
fully stand there arld say, look, they are still squabbling, and
now is our turn. Cut them out and give it to us. That won't
happen if you move ahead now.
Mrs. Gordon: Why don't we call the question?
Mayor Ferre: I will in a moment, Mrs. Gordon,'but I'd like
to read the question, Mr. Lloyd, that was deleted --and I am not
insisting that it be put back as a formal part of this agree-
ment, as long as we have the understanding, and I just want for
the record to repeat it; providing that the Board of County Com-
missioners of Metropolitan Dade County shall call a special mee;:-
ing early in 1975 for the purpose of discussing the taxes paid by
City of Miami citizens to Metropolitan Dade County for countywide
services provided by the County.
Mr. Lloyd: As a matter of fact, after our discussion I con-
sulted with Mr. Stuart Simon, the County Attorney, and he actually
included that in the County resolution, and we had it in our original
resolution. We are getting it now, and if you want it in there
that's perfectly all right, but it is in the County resolution.
Mayor Ferre: No, that's all right. Mr. Lloyd, I em not trying
to pin down responsibility for drafting, and all that. . I just
want to make sure that we 'all understand the intent. As long as I
have mentioned it, and Ray shakes his head this way (indicating),
he doesn't even have to say yes as long as he shakes his head the
right way, then that's fine. Now, technically, here is the way we
have to do this: As the Mayor of Miami, by the powers that I have
under the Charter, I am calling a special emergency meeting of the
City of Miami Commission at this time for the purpose of passing a
resolution dealing with the Miami -Dade Water and Sewer Board; so
we are so constituted. Now, I'll accept the motion as offered by
Father Gibson and seconded by Mrs. Gordon, and the motion is exactly
as was passed previously on December 19, 1974, except that up at the
top where it says, contingent upon, on the third line, you strike
the words, contingent upon, and the title so reflecting, upon a
binding commitment that the sewage plant 16-inch so-called sludge
line not come through the City of Miami. Strike those four lines.
Mr. Lloyd: We have a resolution on that which goes a little
more into detail.
Mayor Ferre: You want
lution. And I'll tell you,
Would you think about these
make a commitment to us, as
to read the resolution? Read the reso-
Ray, while he is reading the resolution
street projects --and I know you can't
long as you give us a philosophical ---
Mr. Ray Goode: Well, we certainly can take a look at those,
as we have in the past. As one example, you recently brought one
item to us to our attention which has now moved all the way to the
cohtract•stage, and that's the resurfacing of Biscayne Boulevard
JAN 1 0 197E
from roughly Fifth to Fifteenth. Even though that's not our re-
sponsibility we were basically instrumental in having the State do
that as a request from the City.
Mayor Ferre: And I'd like to also verify that we had a promin-
ent member of this community become very concerned about the
hazardous conditions and bad conditions of Biscayne Boulevard, and
I think the County has moved with dispatch on that. But I just
wanted pu to make kind.of a moral commitment for your administra-
tion that you are not going to forget some of our little road pro-
jects and give them secondary importance. Does that smile say that ---
OK. All right, read the resolution.
Mr. Lloyd: A resolution expressing the intent of the City
Commission to provide for sixty acres of land owned by the City
of Miami contiguous to the existing facilities at Virginia Key, to
be conveyed to the Miami -Dade Water and Sewer Authority for the sum
of 5.3 million dollars; providing that title be contingent upon a
binding commitment that upon the transfer of the Deed that Dade
County pay 5.3 million dollars as a lump sum cash payment for the
transfer; further providing that the aforesaid 5.3 million dollars
be utilized by the City of Miami for an auditorium -marina complex
to be located in the downtown area; further providing that Dade
County additionally make available 180,000 square feet in the down-
town area for the aforesaid auditorium and marina complex in an
area acceptable to the City of Miami; further providing that the
aforesaid land have no encumbrances and be tax free; further provid-
ing that the aforesaid land be made available by December, 1975;
further providing for the'assumption of all outstanding general
bond obligations by the Miami -Dade Water and Sewer Authority, and
further directing the proper City officials to implement the trans-
fer.
Mr. Plummer: That doesn't include the signing of the tri-
party agreement, which was part of the motion which was actually
passed by this Commission.
Mrs. Gordon: You shortened that quite a bit, Mr. Lloyd.
Mr. Lloyd: What we will do is we will just make this a resolu-
tion --we'll just call this a resolution,that we passed.
Mayor Ferre: Would you just add to that, and I'll read it:
and that the tri-party agreement be finalized upon the signing of
the transfer contract and4that the payments of that agreement will
begin to run on the day of the signing.
Mr. Lloyd: We'll just go ahead. A resolution expressing the
intent of the City Commission that the City of Miami deed over
sixty acres of property,properly defined, contiguous to existing
facilities at Virginia Key, contingent upon, and the title so re-
flecting, upon a binding commitment that upon the signing of the
instrument that Dade County give 5.3 million dollars as a lump sum
cash price for the property; that the City of Miami commit to use
that 5.3 million dollars for the purpose of building an auditorium
arena complex in the downtown area; that Dade County commit itself
to give to the City of Miami for the purpose of building this com-
plex 180,000 square feet in the downtown area, preferably in the
government center, but an area acceptable to the City of Miami, and
whose specifications would be within reasonable walking distance
from either the government center or,a major center in the downtown
14 JAN101975
core area for the construction of a City of Miami facility; that
the land, even though Dade County will have title to it, will not
have any enc mbrances either now or in the future; no taxes; that
air rights belong to the City; that they cannot use it in the
future for any purposes contrary to the purposes of the City with
out the City's authorization; that the land be made available t•v
the end of the calendar year 1975; that within three months aftsr
the closing the Miami -Dade Water and Sewer Authority will come
concurrent in whatever debts the auditors say are owed to the
City of Miami at that time, and that in the future they will keep
current with the payments to the City of Miami; and that the tri-
partite agreement be finalized upon the signing of the transfer
contract, and that the payments in that agreement will begin to
run on the day of the signing.
Mrs. Gordon: That.has got it all.
Mayor Ferre: IX, new you have it. We have a motion and a
second. This is on an emergency basis so you need four -fifths
vote.
Mr. Lloyd: No you don't. This is a resolution. A resolution
need only be passed once by a simple majority. This is a resolu-
tion expressing the intent of the Commission and directing --we
should add, and directing the appropriate officials of the City of
Miami to implement the transfer.
Thereupon the foregoing motion, introduced by Reverend Gibson
and seconded by Mrs. Gordon, as amended, and entitled -
RESOLUTION NO. 75-72
A RESOLUTION EXPRESSING THE INTENT OF THE CITY
COMMISSION THAT THE CITY OF MIAMI DEED OVER SIXTY
ACRES OF PROPERTY, PROPERLY DEFINED, CONTIGUOUS TO
EXISTING FACILITIES AT VIRGINIA KEY, CONTINGENT
UPON, AND THE TITLE SO REFLECTING, UPON A BINDING
COMMITMENT THAT UPON THE SIGNING OF THE INSTRUMENT
THAT DADE COUNTY GIVE 5.3 MILLION DOLLARS AS A
LUMP SUM CASH PRICE FOR THE PROPERTY; THAT THE
CITY OF MIAMI COMMIT TO USE TI'AT 5.3 MILLION
DOLLARS FOR THE PURPOSE OF BUILDING AN AUDITORIUM
ARENA COMPLEX IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA; THAT DADE COUNTY
COMMIT ITSELF TO GIVE TO THE CITY OF MIAMI FOR THE
PURPOSE OF BUILDING THIS COMPLEX 180,000 SQUARE FEET
IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA, PREFERABLY IN THE GOVERNMENT
CENTER, BUT AN AREA ACCEPTABLE TO THE CITY OF MIAMI,
AND WHOSE SPECIFICATIONS WOULD BE WITHIN REASONABLE
WALKING DISTANCE FROM EITHER THE GOVERNMENT CENTER
OR A MAJOR CENTER IN THE DOWNTOWK CORE AREA FOR THE
CONSTRUCTION OF A CITY OF MIAMI FACILITY; THAT THE
LAND, EVEN THOUGH DADE COUNTY WILL HAVE TITLE TO IT,
WILL NOT HAVE ANY ENCUMBRANCES, EITHER NOW OR IN
THE FUTURE; NO TCANS; THAT AIR RIGHTS BELONG TO THE
CITY; THAT ZIIEY NOT USE IT IN THE FUTURE FOR
PURPOSES CONTRARY TO THE PURPOSES OF THE CITY WITH -
THE CITY'S AUTHORIZATION; THAT THE LAND BE MADE
AVAILABLE BY THE END OF THE CALENDAR YEAR 1975;
THAT WITHIN THREE MONTHS AFTER THE CLOSING TIIE MIAMI-
DADE WATER AND SEWER AUTHORITY WILL COME CONCURRENT
IN WHATEVER DEBTS THE AUDITORS SAY ARE OWED TO THE
CITY OF MIAMI; AND THAT THE TRI-PARTITE AGREEMENT
BE FINALIZED UPON THE SIGNING OF THE TRANSFER CON-
TIACT; AND THAT THE PAYMENTS IN' THAT AGREEMENT WILL
BEG! TO RUN ON THE DAY OF THE SIGNING
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and
oil file in the City Clerk's Office)
J JAN 101975
was passed and adopted by the following vote AYES: Mrs. Gordon,
Reverend Gibson, Mr. Plummer and Mayor Ferre. NOES: None. Mr.
Reboso absent.
Mr. Sloan: Would you please, in order to clear this up we
do need one thing further -rand it doesn't take official action
but we would request that you instruct your staff to withdraw tleir
written formal objections to the Corps of Engineers and to the
Environmental Protection Agency for the sludge line.
On motion of Reverend Gibson, seconded by Mrs. Gordon, a motion
to grant the request of Mr. Sloan was adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Reverend Gibson, Mrs. Gordon, Mr. Plummer and Mayor Ferre.
NOES: None ►Mr. Reboso absent. The motion was designated Motion No.
75-73.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Sloan, I just want to tell you that one of
the members of the City Commission will be appointed as a liaison
and I thank you very much for your memorandum, and we plan to be-
come more active and be more of a participant in your board meetings,
and I am glad that we have worked all this out today.
REVENUE SHARING FUNDS - APPROPRIATING:
An ordinance entitled -
AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE MAKING APPROPRIATIONS OF UNUSED
FEDERAL REVENUE SNIIARING FUNDS FROM THE FISCAL YEAR
ENDING SEPTEMBER :OTH, 1974: DECLARING THAT ALL OF THE
FEDERAL REVENUE SHARING FUNDS APPROPRIATED FOR THE
FISCAL YEAR 1973-74 HAVE NOT BEEN USED AND THEIR
BALANCES, TOTALING $3,365,929.31, SHOULD NOW BE AP-
PROPRIATED TO BE EXPENDED IN FISCAL YEAR 1974-75 FOR
THE PURPOSES APPROPRIATED IN FISCAL YEAR 1973-74;
PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY; AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE
DATE
was introduced by Mr. Plummer, who moved its adoption as an
emergency measure and dispensing with the requirement of reading
same on two separate days, which, upon being seconded by Reverend
Gibson, was adopted by the following vote - AYES: Reverend
Gibson, Mrs. Gordon, Mr. Plummer and Mayor Ferre. NOES: None.
Mr. Reboso absent. And the ordinance, title above stated, was
thereupon read by title and on motion of Mr. Plummer, seconded by
Reverend Gibson, was passed and adopted by the following vote -
AYES: Reverend Gibson, Mrs. Gordon, Mr. Plummer, and Mayor Ferre.
NOES: None. Mr. Reboso absent.
SAID ORDINANCE WAS DESIGNATED ORDINANCE NO. 8345.
ADJOURNMENT:
There being no further business to come before the Commission
at this time, on motion duly made and seconded, the meeting was
adjourned at 9:50 o'clock A.M.
ATTEST: H, D. SOUTHERN
CITY CLERK
MAURICE A. FERRE
MA YOR