HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1976-04-13 MinutesCITY OF MIAMI
COMMISSION
MINUTES
OF MEETING HELD ON April 13, 1976 =
(SPECIAL)
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
CITY HALL
MINUTES of SPECIAL MEETING OF THE
CITY CCMC1ISSI6'1 or MI.AMI, FLCRIDA
ON THE 13TH DAY OF APRIL, 1976, THE CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI)
FLORIDA MET AT ITS REGULAR MEETING PLACE IN THE CITY HALL,
3500 PAN AMERICAN DRIVE, IAMI,.FLORIDA IN SPECIAL SESSION.
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 2:23 O'CLOCK P.M. BY
MAYORMAURICE A. FERRE WITH THE FOLLOWING MEMBERS OF THE
COMMISSION FOUND TO BE PRESENT:
COMMISSIONER IANOLO REBOSO
COMMISSIONER J. L. PLUMMER, JR.
COMMISSIONER (REV,) THEODORE GIBSON
VICE-'1AYOR ROSE GORDON
MAYOR MAUR I CE A . FERRE
ALSO PRESENT:
P. W. TNDREWS, CITY MANAGER
A. P. CROUCH, ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER
JOHN S. CROUCH/
CITY ATTORNEY
H. D. SOUTHERN, CITY CLERK
An invocation was detiveAed by Revekend Gibson who then
Zed .hose pnesen.t in a pledge o6 attegiance .to the gag.
A motion to waive the nead.tng o 6 the minutes was £n Aoduced
and seconded and was passed unan-tmousty.
INTERVIEWING OF '.1ALTER C. KANE AND FRANK SPENCE) APPLICANTS FOR
THE POSITION OF CITY MANAGER.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Kane, I think the best way to begin our process here is for you
to informally tell us about yourself and your background and give us a little pep
talk, say about 15 minutes and we'll wait until Plummer gets back. Why don't we
just wait until Mr. Plummer gets here because I think we certainly owe you the
courtesy of full attention.
Mr. Walter C. Kane: Mr. Mayor and members of the commission, let me apologize for
any misunderstanding. Mr. Roberts told me 3:30 and I had understood yesterday that
that was the scheduled time for my interview and apparently some confusion existed.
Mrs. Gordon: I can back up what you said, I did tell the commissioners when I saw
you this morning that you mentioned 3:30 was your time. So they know that you D C
expected to be here at 3:30. "DOCUMENT EMT INDEX
Mayor Ferre: Where did Mr. Plummer go now? Ok, Mr. Bane. 1TE MOB
Mr. Kane: Once again, Mr. Mayor and members of the commission, my apology for any
misunderstanding as to time scheduling. I was simply relaxing in my room and I
didn't think I had to be here for some time yet. You have my resumee and my back-
ground, I don't think I need to go into detail about the particulars associated
with my life. I presume that you've had an opportunity by now to digest this in-
formation and you know I wouldn't be here unless I was extremely interested in
this position. By way of a capsule view of myself, I was born and raised in St.
Louis, Missouri, educated at Midwestern Universities - the University of Missouri
and the University of Kansas. My professional background after my service in the
military includes positions with the City of Springfield, Missouri which is a very
diversified city having all types of municipal operations. City Manager positions
in Loveland, Colorado, Eau Claire, Wisconsin and City Administrator of Lakewood,
Colorado which is immediately adjacent to Denver on the west. I think in Lakewood
my particular activities there may be of most interest to you. Lakewood was a new
community incorporated in 1969 and my mission as the City Administrator was to
establish and organize and implement an entire new organization for the city, In
that connection I had the opportunity and the encouragement of the Mayor and the
City Council to develop a rather innovative type of municipal organization and
some new approaches to city government that I thought was somewhat unique and
were certainly very interesting and appealing from my standpoint. It was also,
inasmuch as this was an unincorporated area of the county it was necessary for
us to assume some services that the county had been providing. And to make a
transition from county services to city services. This gave us kind of an un=
usual opportunity to try to improve on the quality of urban services that were
being offered in this particular area that had heretofore not been offered by
the county, I was in Lakewood about four and a half years and I assumed my pres-
ent position as Executive Director of the Colorado Housing finance Authority in
July, 1974. In that capacity, we were a quasi -public corporation, We function
by issuing tax-exempt notes and bonds and we used the proceeds of these revenues
to finance housing for low and moderate income families. We deal with all types
of commercial lenders, with sponsors of low and moderate income housing projects,
with city officials, with minority groups, with citizen groups throughout the
whole State of Colorado. It is an opportunity that I have found personally very
rewarding but I think that I'm at a point in my life now where I want to be part
of an urban setting and particularly City Manager of a community that has the kind
of challenge that I believe you have in Miami. I think, Mr. Mayor, rather than
just me rattle on and talk I could probably direct some of my comments in regard
to specific questions that yourself and members of the commission might have.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Kane, we have a series of recommended questions that the Arthur
D, Little Company gave us to be asked of all the candidates and perhaps in going
through that process many of these things would come out, So if it is alright
with the rest of the commission we'll just go one by one and then at the end of
that process we'll open up to individual questions, I know I have a few. Let's
start off with the first one. In your last job what were some of the things that
you spent the most time on? Let's say in the las two jobs because your last job
has been head of housing but before that you were, what did you dedicate the most
time to? How did you approach your job? What were the difficult aspects of it?
How did you divide your week and your time and effort?
Mr. Kane: I think one of the most important aspects of a Manager's job is plann-
ing. When I say planning I use it in the broadest sense as it is related to man-
agement not land use planning but planning for the total organization, planning
for the entity that he works for. I think whether you're in private business or
whether you work for a governmental corporation it is essential that you look at
the resources that you have available and try to allocate those resources in a
way that you can achieve the objectives of your organization. My own particular
style works something like this: I believe strongly in setting objectives, object-
ives that are not simply passed down from the top from me but rather objectives
that are developed as the result of a team management approach, as a result of
involvement of subordinates in the organization, as a result of input from the
Mayor and the City Commission, as a result of inputs from the community. Somehow
through a distillation process of all of this it develops specific objectives that
I think can be accomplished. I then follow a pattern of establishing quarterly
work objectives for the organization. I believe that these objectives have to be
realistic, they have to be measurable, you have to be able to have some means of
determining whether or not you're really achieving what you said you were going
to achieve and some means of measuring what you said you were going to do in the
first place. Those are some of the kinds of things that I feel are particularly
important. As to how I spend my time, in Lakewood I spent a good deal of my time
involved with various citizen groups in the community. And this was particularly
so let's say after the normal working hours. There were a number of diverse com-
munity groups there because it was a newly incorporated area it was necessary to
know these people and for them to have some idea of the city, its capabilities
and for them to express what they wanted in particular from their city. I think
that that occupied a good deal of my time. In addition to that, it was also nec-
essary, of course, to develop virtually every process procedure ordinance, every
law that the city had. So in Lakewood it was really an opportunity for me to be
a part of building a whole new organization and I think that that's a kind of unique
experience that not many City Managers are either blessed or cursed with depending
on how you look at it in particular.
Mr. Plummer; Mr. Mayor, may I suggest out of courtesy to the candidates, Mr,
Andrews, we do like Civil Service put an easy chair and let them sit down rather
than standing up for an hour and a half.
Mr. Kane; I don't mind to stand, sir, whatever is most convenient...
Mr. Plummer; Put the chair out there, if they want to use it, fine. ,,, That's
what we do at Civil Service. That's otherwise known as the hot seat. ...
Mt. Kane: I find that I talk better on my feet and t always snake better decisions
when I'm standing up,
Mayor Ferre: Well we'll remember that should you be the successful City Manager,
We'll snake you stand once in a while and make good decisions on your feet, Are
there any other questions related to this particular phase which is responsibil-
sties of the previous job and what he spent the majority of his time on?
Rev, Gibson: Mr, Mayors may I raise a question before we go any further, I think
we ought to invoke a rule of time. Otherwise we give one candidate an hour, an-
other candidate an hour and a half, I know, look, getting the job is Gibson's
business. I know what happens in these interviews. If he can't control yourself,
baby, you're in bad shape, Ok, Mr. Mayor, let's start, certainly you will admit
that you've had 10 minutes:
Mr, Kane: Yes, sir.
Rev. Gibson: Ok, so 20 minutes of three if we're going to give him an hour would
be 20 minutes of four. Ok? That will be an hour. Everybody knows where we are
now. Proceed.
Mayor Ferre: And if we should extend it today beyond an hour we'll have to extend
it for everybody because there may be a lot of hot questions by the end of the hour.
Second question, what are some of the things in your job you feel you've done partic-
ularly well? What have you done tha you think is exceptional or that really dist-
inguishes you from any other City Manager?
Mr. Kane: I would say particularly, and let me say at the outset that it is dif-
ficult not to sound like the most conceited individual on the face of the earth
when you're in this situation. So let me assure you and those that are in the
audience that I do not simply go around bragging about myself but I am here to
answer your questions and to sell me to you. So I think that whatever I say I
hope it comes across in that vein.
Mayor Ferre: We'll take it in that vein, don't worry. Tell it like it is.
Mr. Kane: I think that most particularly if you said what do you do best I'd say
I relate to people well and I'm a good manager. I know how to run an organization,
I know how to control it and direct it and that is not something that I say light-
ly. I invite you to talk to any of the other City Councils or Mayors that I've
had the priviledge of working with over the years and I think that that would be
borne out. As far as internal organization I believe that there must be harmony
in the organization and for whatever reason that has been given to me, I have an
ability to create harmony and to create effectiveness in the organizations that
I've worked for and to produce in accordance with the expectations of the people
that hire me. I've never had a contract, I've never had anything other than a
position where I served at the pleasure of the people that appointed me and I be-
lieve that that's a very motivating factor. And so I believe that I have always
produced according to the expectations of my employers.
Mayor Ferre: What are some of the things about your job that you find difficult
to do? And let me be more explicit. Besides what do you find difficult to do,
what are your weaknesses? We all have weaknesses, what are yours?
Mr. Kane: I would say my primary weakness is resisting a desire to move too fast
to try to accomplish things in a time frame that are realistic. In other words
projects that we build I think they ought to be built in three months instead of
six months. I think that a financing program that we're arranging ought to be
effective in a much shorter period of time and I find that very frustrating. I
think that one of the things that you ask in particular about my present position
is a high degree of frustration in the programs that I'm dealing with that involve
the federal government as far as the new Section 8 Program goes. I have found
that while everyone means well and everyone is concerned and everyone expresses a
desire to get the job done it takes a long time and it is sometimes very difficult
to accomplish what I think should be accomplished in a relatively short period of
time. So if I had a shortcoming that I would point to, your honor, I would prob-
ably say a degree of impatience with trying to accomplish what needs to be done.
Mayor Ferre: Anything else?
Mr. Kane: I have the usual human frailties that I think we're all subject to, sir.
Mayor Ferre; We don't want a confession here, if you want to confess you can see
Father after, All we want to know is what you perceive as your weakness if you
only have one or weaknesses if you feel you have more, Share them with us.
Anything else?
Mt, Kane! I don't teally think so, You know I think in my business you have to
have a high level of confidence and I don't say that lightly = because thete
ate many times in a City 'tanager's life when be needs to restore himself by tell=
ing himself that this is right and this is the way that it has to be done, And
I think that you need that, So if I seem over confident it is because one needs
to have that ih this particular line of business or I don't think you're in it,
Mayot Ferre: What do you feel has been your greatest frustration or disappoint-
ment in your present job and why do you feel this way? You started to touch on
that,
Mr, Kane: Yes. The New Section * Program which was part of the 1974 Housing and
Community Development Act involves some rent supplements that assists in the con-
struction of new or substantially rehabilitated structures, The fair market rents
that are established for the State of Colorado are too low. They're too low in
many instances and it's very difficult to try to construct particularly high-rise
elevator structures for the elderly when the fair market rent has been set too
low and then when a project is submitted, and we work with the developer for some
time putting together what we think is an economically workable package and the
cntract rents that are established are too low also. It is also doubly frustrat-
ing when I have to go into a community in various parts of the State of Colorado
and try to tell them why aren't we building something there. They don't under-
stand the machinations of this complex process of contract rents and fair market
rents and all of that.
Mayor Ferre: So what have you been able to do to overcome that frustration and
that problem in Colorado? Besides coming to Miami?
Mr. Kane: I don't mean to paint a dark picture here. We have developed our own
survey, our own technique using the H.U.D. regulations to establish a fair market
rent. We have met with various H.U.D. officials. We have explained the technique.
We have involved builders, contractors, architects, people that are in the con-
struction trade to try to point out the inequities of the type of rent system
and the rent level that has been established. And I believe we are making headway.
Mayor Ferre: How much, you've been there for two years, what have you done in
two years?
Mr. Kane: Well, we have construction programs under way now in various parts of
the state. We have a loan to lenders program for a single family purchase program
that's under way ...
Mayor Ferre: Well that's all Chinese to me. What do you mean specifically? Are
you building a thousand units or you've got $20,000,000 of construction going up
or what?
Mr. Kane: We have $31,000,000 in financing outstanding at this time.
Mayor Ferre: These are all revenue bonds?
Mr. Kane: They're all revenue bonds, they're not obligations of the State of
Colorado. They're financed solely by our agency. They're hacked solely by the
revenue...
Mayor Ferre: You don't have a state agency that sells bonds?
Mr. Kane: We sell our own bonds.
Mayor Ferre: What kind of a rating did you get from Moody and Standard and Poor?
Mr. Kane: Our notes had a rating of mig-one which is the top rating that you can
get for a short term note and our bonds had a rating of AA from Standard and Poors
and A from Moodys.
Mayor Ferre: That's better than we've got. That's alright. How did you go
about, did you work with the analysts directly? Did you go to New York or did
they go out to see you or what?
Mr. Kane: We selected an underwriting group consisting of two New York firms and
two local firms.
Mayor Ferre: Who were they?
Mr, Kane; Blythe, Eastman, Dillan serves as our lead managing underwriter and
the First Boston Corporation is the other New York firm.
ott-
Mayot Ferre: Who did you deal with at Blythe Eastman, Dillan?
Mr, Kane: Stan Pardo is the Executive Vice=President at Blythe Eastman !Allan
and Don Cumer felt that the First Boston Corporation who incidently just took the
job as budget director for the City of New York about a month ago and people on
Wall Street tell hit that he's really got his work cut out for him and in talking
with him I know he does If you think you have budget problems you should listen
to the budget director of the City of New York,
Mayor Ferre: Well tell me, of this $31,000,000 of housing that
there, how many units does that represent?
y
got going
Mr, Kane: That represents approximately 1400 units.
Mayor Ferre: 1400 units for $31,000,000? That's about $20,000 a unit. That's
pretty low in Miami standards. Are these houses or high-rises?
Mr. Kane: They are single family dwellings...
Mayor Ferre: Single, all of them?
Mr. Kane: No, they're partially single family dwellings and the others are var-
ious types of projects ranging from 4-plexes, 8-plexes, 20 units...
Mayor Ferre: Who are the sponsors of these things, unions, churches, minority
groups, contractors?
Mr. Kane: We have one non-profit corporation, the Menonite Housing Development
Corporation and the others are limited dividend sponsors who have syndicated their
organizations...
Mayor Ferre: How many? Out of the 31 million what's that chopped up into? Ten
people or ten groups or twenty groups, roughly?
Mr. Kane: The loans to lenders program is with 7 different lenders, commercial
lenders - S & L's and commercial banks -and the development projects are in 7 dif-
ferent entities.
Mayor Ferre: Any of them minority groups?
Mr. Kane: Yes. One of the projects in Denver, the sponsor is a black architect.
Mayor Ferre: An architect personally rather than a group?
Mr. Kane: Well, he is the owner -sponsor of the project.
Mayor Ferre: Did he come to you?
Mr. Kane: Yes, he did.
Mayor Ferre: What's his name?
Mr. Kane: Burt Bruton. He's an architect and he's the owner -sponsor.
Mayor Ferre: Is he in Denver?
Mr. Kane: Denver. He is building what is called the Mitchell '66 Project.
Mayor Ferre: How about geographic distribution and all of that, is this all in
Denver or did you do this, of the 1400 units how many of them are in Denver?
Mr. Kane: Well, they're not all in Denver. The single family loans are scattered
all over the state really with lenders because the S & L's have branch S & L's.
We don't have branch banking but they do have branch S & L's and they're scattered
all over the state. The other projects, four are in Denver and three are out of
the Denver Metropolitan area.
Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you this question. The Speaker of the House of the State
of Colorado is a Mexican -American. Do you know him?
Mr. Kane: Mr. Valdez, yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre; Valdez, that's his name. The house and the senate in Colorado has
a fairly large Mexican -American make up and a lot of Mexican -Americans that serve
in both the house and the senate, Out of the seven you have one black architect
ao I assume there ate to Mexican-AMeticatis in this group of the seven that you're
talking about. Is that true?
Mt. Kane: That ate sponsors of the project, that's corrects
Mayor Terre: Did you go out and seek any Mexican --American groups or any minority
groups or was the pattern, and don't get defensive about this I'm .just trying to
establish a pattern of how this thing operated, did you actually go out and reach;
for example I know there is a Spanish newspaper and t know there is Spanish radio
in Denver. Did you advertise or did you wait for them to come to seek you out.
Mr. Kane: Well, on the first project we sought them out. We sought out the spon-
sors of the project...
Mayor Ferre: How did you go about doing that?
Mr. Kane: Well, we worked through the mortgage lenders that we felt would be
servicing the loans. We talked to the sponsors of the projects. These were
projects that were....
Mayor Ferre: The mortgage lenders are the savings and loans and the other insti-
tutions?
Mr. Kane: Mortgage bankers for the most part.
Mayor Ferre: You know what red -lining is don't you?
Mr. Kane: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: I'm sure red -lining exists in Colorado as it does in Miami. If you
go to people that are involved in red -lining, and everybody is anybody who is a
lender. You know that's been the tradition up until now. Then obviously the peo-
ple they're going to seek are not going to be minority or marginal people. Now
as I recall in our conversation, you and I, you told me that people had to prove
to you that they could not get a loan by a regular banking means and they had to
prove to you and you would check out and find out whether or not they could get
that loan on their own. If they couldn't get it on their own then that's when
your agency came into play. Now it would strike me that the type of people that
would be involved in that type of thing would be for the most part poor people.
Is that correct?
Mr. Kane: No, sir, let me recast that a little bit. What I said was that we do
not compete with commercial lending institutions. In other words if they could
obtain a rate more favorably, an interest rate more favorably than could be offered
by our agency they could obtain the financing from that agency. So the thrust
here was the non -competition with the lending institutions and it did not necess-
arily imply as to the credit worthiness of the sponsor of the project.
Mayor Ferre: Do you see where I'm heading, what I'm trying to determine? I'm
trying to determine exactly what your personal attitude or that of the department
was in trying to seek out, I've been in Colorado about a half a dozen times person-
ally so I'm somewhat acquainted. I've traveled Colorado from Gunneston all the
way through Estes Park from one corner down to the other from the dessert to the
mountains. And I'm not an expert in Colorado but I've been there and I know a
little bit about the type of things that happen and the problems that Colorado
City has had, etc. and so on. But the point I'm just trying to establish here is
what, you say out of seven projects one was minority that was a black architect.
I would assume that the poor people of Colorado are either Mexican -Americans,
native Indian -Americans or blacks. I'm sure that there are some white poor but I
didn't see too many in all my travels and I told you I've sent my children to camps
in Colorado and so I've been all over Colorado and I didn't see too many white
poor. The poor people I saw were black and Indians, Mexicans. So I'm asking you,
you for two years headed a department where you placed #31,000,000 and now you've
sought the authority for $200,000,000 I just want to know what your personal in-
volvement was in trying, your task was to reach for the poor or to help the poor
to a certain degree. How far did you go out and reaching for this? Where was
the commitment? Was there a commitment? What was it? The results don't seem to
imply that in the sense that out of 7 you have 1 black architect and he came to
you. What I'm specifically trying to find out is did you go down to Colorado City
and sit down with the local Mexican -American group for example, and say, "Hey, you
live, we're available and we're here to help you. Here's what we have, now here's
how we can help you. You need housing in this particular community, How can we
serve you?"
Mr. Kane: yes; we have gone; I have gone to various communities in Colorado and
talked to groups just as you outlined. Recently the City of Detivet, fot a afrple,
we have been working with a corporation called Brothers Redevelopment which is
headed by two Spanish sutname individuals arid they are in the process of buying
older homes attd rehabilitating them in the cote area of the city and we have Worked
With them oft obtaining construction financing for this and on obtaining long term
financing on tnortgages on the projects, mortgages that probably would not other=
Wise be available if it wasn't for out agency and out agency teaching out to tty
to be of help in this particular area.
Mayor Ferre: That's not one of the seven projects?
Mr. Kane: No.
Mayor Ferre: That's one of the ones that's coming?
Mr. Kane: That's one of the ones that's coming and we have others that are coming.
I'm just trying to tell you what is here now. We are doing that and we have some
2,000 units on the drawing boards right now in various stages and as I say these
things take....
Mayor Ferre: Well how many people do you have in your department in the State
Department?
Mr. Kane: There are only a half a dozen.
Mayor Ferre: Is that six?
Mr. Kane: Right.
Mayor Ferre: How many are women other than secretaries?
Mr. Kane: One woman.
Mayor Ferre: Any blacks or?
Mr. Kane: My administrative assistant is a black.
Mayor Ferre: Any other minorities?
Mr. Kane: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Is the Colorado Housing Authority a creature....(gap)
Mr. Kane: ... seven of whom are appointed by the governor. The other two, one is
a member of the legislature selected by the Speaker of the House and the Majority
Leader of the Senate and the State Auditor is a member of my board.
Mayor Ferre: Who is the legislator that serves on your board?
Mr. Kane: Betty Anne Dittamore, representative Betty Anne Dittamore.
Mayor Ferre: Any more questions on this area?
Mrs. Gordon: What is the composition of those that were appointed by the governor,
what is their composition ethnically?
Mr. Kane: 0n the Board of Directors we have one Spanish surnamed individual who
is president of a Spanish speaking radio station in Pueblo. We have a woman, a
Catholic Priest, the rest are ethnically primarily Anglos.
Mr. Plummer; Mr. Kane, have you ever managed a Civil Service Board?
Mr. Kane: I have never managed a Civil Service Board, no, sir. I have worked....
Mr. Plummer: Have you worked with Civil Service?
Mr. Kane; I have worked with the Civil Service Commission....
Mr. Plummer; What relationship did you have the Civil Service Board?
Mr, Kane; I was City Manager of Eau Claire, Wisconsin and we had a Civil Service
Commission for our police and our Fire Departments.
Mr, Plummer; What about the rest of our employees?
Mr, Kate: The test of the employees were not part of the Civil Service Systet
and were appointed through our personnel operations,
Mr. Plummer: You had no control over the personnel or that personnel was under
your command?
Mr. Kane: Well, the personnel were actually technically appointed by the City
Manager, The Civil Service positions were certified, selected by the department
head and then technically appointed by the City Manager, The other employees that
were recruited, tested, promoted what not through the Personnel Department were
all appointed by the City Manager.
Mr. Plummer: But in other words just police and fire were covered by Civil Ser-
vice?
Mr, Kane: That was the only Civil Service...
Mr. Plummer: And your relationship was no more than that of a manager who did the
technical hiring.
Mr. Kane: Well, the final appointment yes, sir, that is correct as City Manager.
I met with the Civil Service Commission on various occasions, we discussed mutual
problems that occured relative to promotions, our recruiting to fill various posit-
ions, the usual relationship or at least what I thought was a usual relationship
between the Manager and the Civil Service Commission.
Mr. Plummer: Do you have any idea as to the City of Miami's Consent Decree?
Mr. Kane: Yes, sir, I have read at least the draft of the Consent Decree and the
stipulations contained thereto although I. have not studied it in detail and I
would consider myself far from an expert on it but I am familiar with it.
Mr. Plummer: What kind of computer experience have you had since the city is go-
ing into extensive computerization?
Mr. Kane: Well, a variety of different kinds of computer experience. To go back
to Eau Claire, we were just starting into various computerized operations primar-
ily in our Finance Department. We were using it on billing of tax bills, utility
billing and that sort of thing, just that type of operation. In Lakewood we started
with the concept of developing a management information system. In other words we
approached the software side of it first and attempted to develop a system that
would provide not only the usual type of repetitive clerical things, our report
formats that a computer can provide you with but also could provide you with the
type of information system that would be useful to our managers in all departments.
We had moved up to the point where we were ready to begin the selection of hard-
ware and our decision at that point was to initially implement the system by util-
izing a service bureau with consoles and various input type of terminals rather
than acquire a computer installation ourself. As I looked at the costs of the
operation, the lease cost for the equipment and versus what we could do it on some-
one elses' computer system that was already in effect, I felt that the cost benefit
ratio was such it would be easier for us to try to lease those facilities than to
acquire them ourselves, lease time.
Mr. Plummer: What kind of experience have you had in the area of pensions?
Mr. Kane: Well, every place that I've worked has had a pension system and a pension
board. I have, going back to Springfield, been involved in actuarial studies deter-
mining whether or not there was any deficit funding in a pension system, what kind
of a contribution match would be determined, would be necessary by the employer and
to employee or what kind of contribution could be received from the state in order
to make the pension system financially sound. I've been involved in investment
decisions of investment of funds, this type of relationship with a pension system.
Mr. Plummer: What kind of philosophy do you have with the employee -employer relat-
ions?
Mr. Kane: Well, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that question. Would you
be more specific?
Mr. Plummer: Well., you've managed different cities. All of these cities, I'm sure,
have had great groups of employees. What has been your relationship with the em-
pioyees as an employer?
Mt, Kane: ok, Well, I like to think of ttyself as a fait individual but I've
always been in a situation where I've been City Manager and as such it has been
necessary fot t1e to evaluate individuals to determine (A) that they were capable
of handling their present assignment and ($) whether or not if they Wetenit cap=
able whether they should continue in the employee or the service of the city that
1 Was employed by. 1 have dismissed individuals, I've been through many type
of involvements with various employee groups to formally organize unions tepee
setting the city in the collective bargaining process, I've been involved in
grievance procedures, I think that the City Manager has to take the position that
he represents management in his city amd I'm not sure about the particulars,in
your Charter on any appeals process or anything of that nature but in some cases
where I've been the City Manager has been the ultimate on an appellate system for
a grievance that comes up to him, I've handled that and it has never been a prob.,
lem for me,
Mayor Ferre: Let's go a little bit into Lakewood because you know perhaps we're
asking too much about the Housing Authority and really where we ought to go is to
the city. Lakewood was a city, as I recall, of 80,000 people?
Mr. Kane: Well, the population is about 130,000 according to what the planners
estimate.
Mayor Ferre: And it was one of these, it was a brand new city. You started the
whole thing, you had to get the laws and what have you. Alright. Now, what was
the make up of the city? Was it middle class suburban city or was it a workbench
city or what? What kind of a city was it?
Mr. Kane: Certainly middle class would apply and certainly a suburban city.
Mayor Ferre: Where was it suburban to?
Mr. Kane: Contiguous to Denver.
Mayor Ferre: This is right next to Denver so it is a kind of a place where people,
it's a bedroom city where people go at night and go into Denver to work but go
there at night, a residential type of a neighborhood.
Mr. Kane: In some respects although differing in this regard. We did have an
industrial area. The biggest employer right in the heart of Lakewood was the
federal center which employed about 8,000 people. So we had a major employment
base there. We also had a couple of different
Mayor Ferre: Is that where the new Federal Reserve Bank was built, that beautiful
glass building? I saw a picture of it just the other day, just a beautiful thing.
Oh, no wait, that was Minneapolis, I'm sorry.
Mr. Kane: They didn't build it there or I would have known about it I'm sure.
We also had a couple of different industrial parks. Martin Marrietta is a very
large employer in that area and had offices there at Lakewood. We were develop-
ing an industrial office park that had an estimated employment base for about
17,000 jobs. So we had a number of diversified industries. We also had commerc-
ial areas that covered three very large shopping center types, one as large as
100 acres. So it was a major commercial retail center as well as an employment
center.
Mayor Ferre: But no definable downtown. Downtown was Denver.
Mr. Kane: Well yes, we didn't have a downtown in the sense that you think of as
any one area where there is a cluster of retail areas. We had what we called
three different activity centers....
Mayor Ferre: It's a regular American suburban community. How about seniors, you
had a lot of senior citizens there or just the normal 13%?
Mr. Kane: Not too many. The majority of the population was under the age of 30,
a relatively young community.
Mayor Ferre: Working community.
Mr. Kane; A working community and people that were very much inclined to recreat-
ion, to outdoor activity, very much into a program where they wanted the city to
provide things, very interested in Police services and the kind of services that
they felt the city could offer to improve that,
Mayor Ferre: How about social services, vete in involired in any type of like day
care centers and that type of thing?
Mt. Kane! We started some day care centers in out Parks and Recreation Building
and we had just gotten into that prior to my leaving the city and there was an
intent to do this in various other parts of the city because we had a lot of work..
itig wives in the city and they had specifically requested service of this type.
Mayor Ferre! Well now getting to the employee telationship; were there unions
that you were dealing with or was it just a loose knit organization or how did
that function?
Mr. Kane! We had a union. A.F.S.C.M.E. that represented the employees in the
Maintenance Department,
Mayor Ferre: Was that the only one?
Mr. Kane: That's the only one.
Mayor Ferre: How about for example the Police Department?
Mr. Kane: We had no organized in the Police Department.
Mayor Ferre: Was there a F.O.P. or a P.B.A. or Fraternal Order?
Mr. Kane: There was not.
Mayor Ferre: So how did you determine, for example, the working conditions and
what the rates to be paid? How did you get a policeman? Was there an academy or
was there a state academy?
Mr. Kane: Well, we had our own training academy for Police officers, the city
did. Now initially you must understand that when you start from scratch you have
no police officers and you can't start a police academy and have all rookies. We
had to bring in lateral entry police officers from all over the country, experienced
police officers that really made up the cadre of the department and established
its operation.
Mayor Ferre: When did you do that, what years?
Mr. Kane: In 1970 is, of course, when we became operational with our departments
so 70 and 71 we were heavily recruiting from police officers all over the country.
In 72, 73 we started our own recruit class which was a 6 month intensive training
program conducted for our own police officers in Lakewood.
Mayor Ferre: What kind of a racial balance do you have in Lakewood of 130,000
people. Is it all white or is there a mix?
Mr. Kane: It is relatively all white, a very small percentage of minorities,
blacks or Spanish surnamed individuals but it is essentially an all white commun-
ity.
Mayor Ferre: How about children, are there a lot of children in the community?
Do you have your own school system?
Mr. Kane: It is a county -wide school system and there are about 90,000 students
in the school system.
Mayor Ferre: 90,000 out of 130,000?
Mr. Kane: Well, it's county -wide.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, I see...
Mr. Kane: And we had, the school office was there and we had a very close relat-
ionship with the school superintendent. I. met regularly with the district super-
intendents on the superintendents staff. He met regularly with our department
heads. We discussed mutual problems relating to traffic, safety, police, Parks
and Recreation Programs, various types of things where we felt there was some com-
mon alleys.
Mayor Ferre; As I remember Denver has a pretty high crime rate in the city itself,
the City of Denver as such. That doesn't go into Lakewood?
Mr, Kane: Well, sir, in a metropolitan area 1 don't think you could say that that
doesnit go into it. It certainly spills over into Lakewood and we had all the
problems there especially with an intensified nutnther of conmietcial areas that we
had throughout the city.
Mayor Vette:
house?
Mr. Kane:
I don't think
but certainly
Mayor Ferre:
there a good
Denver has a
What type of problems? Purse snatching, breaking and entry in the
I'm talking about robberies, burglaries, crimes against persons,
that we would have thetn in the same proportions as the core city
the problem of crime was there,
How did you relate to the core city and to the county? I mean was
rapport between you as Manager of Lakewood and ... As I remember
strong Mayor form of government.
Mr, Kane: Yes, sir, they do. I related very well. I know several of the depart-
ment heads in Denver. Whenever we had mutual problems whether it was police or
in the Public Works area or out of the Mayor's Office itself we sat down and talked
them through and I've had very close relationships with...
Mayor Ferre: Well, for example the Crime Lab, do you have a crime lab, Lakewood
have a crime lab?
Mr. Kane: No, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation provides a Crime Lab as such
for all Police Departments in the State of Colorado and anything of that nature
we called them.
Mayor Ferre: How about drugs?
Mr. Kane: We would use them.
Mayor Ferre: Did you have a drug department, a drug section?
Mr. Kane: We had a narcotics section in our department, yes.
Mayor Ferre: And they would deal with the county or the state or what or were
they self contained?
Mr. Kane: Well, they were in our own Department of Public Safety.
Mayor Ferre: How about the Fire Department for example what type of a rating did
you have from the insurance rating?
Mr. Kane: The Fire Departments in Lakewood are very fractured. You must under-
stand that before the city was incorporated these services were provided by spec-
ial districts. There would be a special district for fire protection and there
were in the city and there still is four separate fire districts ranging from...
Mayor Ferre: They're four departments or do you have one department? Are they
all independent?
Mr. Kane: They're all independent - four districts - one that's very large and
very sophisticated with equipment and personnel, one not quite so large, one that
covers a small corner of the city that's all volunteer...
Mayor Ferre: Did you try to unite them into one department?
Mr. Kane: We have been trying, the initial attempts were made to unite them into
one department..
Mayor Ferre: Well who decided that?
Mr. Kane: We discussed it with the Mayor and the City Council, we sat down and
began meeting with them and one of the difficulties we ran into is that they have
elected boards of directors and the resistance came not from the men who wanted
to combine the operations of their department because they saw the efficiencies
that could be gained by utilization of equipment, personnel and greater support
and so on. It came from the elected boards of directors who simply did not want
to give up their prerogatives of being the director of that particular fire dist-
rict and that problem
Mayor Ferre; Well, did you overcome that? Could you take it to a referendum or
couldn't the City Council pass a resolution on that?
Mr, Kane: No, not in the State of Colorado. The laws pertaining to special dist-
ricts ate such that they would have to instigate dissolution procedings theiselves,
And where the situation cotes down to now the fitemen themselves ate organizing a
petition drive in their own particular districts now to talk about dissolving their
districts and incorporating,.,,
Mayor Ferre: Well how would you handle something like inspection for example, In
Colorado a lot of the construction is trade out of wood so I would imagine there is
propensity to fires, flow do you handle inspection and safety? Do you have inspect=
ors and what happens when there is a violation?
Mr, Kane: We had, of course, out own Building Inspection Department.
Mayor Terre: That was building inspection not fire inspection,
Mr, Kane: Not fire inspection, The fire inspection, the departments had their
own fire inspection operations.
Mayor• Ferre: Each one of the four?
Mr. Kane: Well, only two of them had full time departments. The others were ess-
entially volunteers. And our Public Safety Department worked very closely with
them on a number of different things.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Kane, did you ever work in private business?
Mr. Kane: No, I have not.
Mr. Plummer: Only in municipal?
Mr. Kane: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: You never owned a business of your own?
Mr. Kane: I have not. Since I left the Marine Corps back in 1959 I have been a
public manager.
Mrs. Gordon: Would you explain to me how you were able to budget for these four
separate entities through the city budget apparently covered all of it.
Mr. Kane: No. They had taxing powers. They could tax up to 8 mills and they
prepared their own budget and submitted their own budget and this was one of the
very real problems.
Mrs. Gordon: You mean just the Fire Department?
Mr. Kane: Just the Fire Department. It is a special purpose district.
Mr. Plummer: We've got the county, Rose. Just like light districts in the county.
Mrs. Gordon: That's amazing. They handle their own budget.
Mr. Kane: They have their own budgets, they have their own taxing powers and this
is one of the things that the citizens came to the city and said, "Do something
about it".
Mrs. Gordon: How big was the budget of Lakewood?
Mr. Kane: Approximately $22,000,000.
Mrs. Gordon: That excluded, of course, the Fire Departments budgets.
Mr. Kane: Yes.
Mrs. Gordon: Do you have any idea how much their budgets were, the four collect-
ively?
Mr. Kane: I don't know about the volunteers but I understand just a little part,
when I say four, part of two other districts were volunteers covered the city;
the other two departments that had full time personnel I am guessing had a budget
in excess of two and a half million dollars,
Mrs, Gordon: Were the fire districts all within the perimeters of the city?
Mt. Kane: No.
Mts. Gordon: Or they expanded into county and city?
Mr. Kane: They covered part of the area outside the city and this is part of the
problem that if you dissolve just the part in the city the district had to go on
providing fire protection to the area outside the city and that was part of the
difficulty.
Mrs. Gordon: That is a problem. That was really the key problem in trying to
consolidate.
Mr. Kane: It was and I think this is what the directors were thinking of that
this is what they saw as some of the very real difficulties that they faced. •
Mrs. Gordon: It's interesting also that when Lakewood was incorporated that the
boundaries were not included to the outer boundaries of the fire districts.
Mr. Kane: Well, some of the boundaries of the fire districts went a goodly ways
out into areas where there were no people. In other words scattered houses that
had extended out quite a ways and I suppose that they just didn't see any sense
taking in that much vacant land at that time.
Mrs. Gordon: Yes, and not getting revenue producing properties, not much anyway.
Mr. Kane: Yes, and it is a far reach to provide police protection when you have
to make long extended runs through very sparsely populated areas.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Kane, are you familiar with Miami's Charter as it pertains to
the relationship between the Manager and the Commission?
Mr. Kane: Yes, I am.
Mr. Plummer: What are your feelings about that set up and how you feel that the
commission is setting policy as opposed to the Manager setting policy, things of
that nature. Do you have any comments in that line?
Mr. Kane: Yes, I do. I think the provisions of your Charter are typical of many
Charters that I've looked at throughout the county. I perceive that the council
obviously is a policy making body. My role has been to make recommendations, to
present you with alternatives, to present you with the best course of action that
I think would be in the interest of pursuing whatever the subject is, whatever
the subject is at hand. And I defend it, the council decides. If the council
feels that it has to reach down into administrative matters I would resist it. I
believe that if you appoint someone to uphold the Charter he has a duty and a re-
sponsibility to do that. I have never had to make an issue of that but I do believe
that that is a good provision in your Charter.
Mr. Plummer: Just so Mr. Kane and probably Mr. Spence would know, and I don't
know, are you expecting him to stay around until Thursday? You've indicated, and
I agree that you'd like to make a decision if possible on Thursday and I'm sure he
would like to know what the answer is.
Mayor Ferre: Well, what is the will of the commission?
Mr. Plummer: I'm not trying to set what we're going to do I'm just asking.
Mrs. Gordon: Let's ask Mr. Kane if he wants to stay around.
Mr. Kane: Yes, I do. I would like to stay. I tell you in all candor I'm inter-
ested in this position. I wouldn't be here as I told you in the first place if I
wasn't and I thought I couldn't do your job. But I think if you consider me a
serious contender for this position and if you want to talk to me further I'm avail-
able and I'd be here. I think it would be much easier to talk personally than over
the telephone.
Mayor Ferre: I really think that since we've gone to all the trouble and expense
of time and since we have not made a decision and this is an open thing that it
certainly would be in his best interest, and this is my personal observation, to
stay because (1) I think it is important for you to have communications with the
various commissioners. The press may want to talk to you and there might be some
employee groups that I'm sure want to talk to you and even within, that, of course,
would be Mr. Andrews' decision as to how far he would want to let the department
heads talk to Mr. Kane and any of these other candidates, But I would recommend
that it be as open and that he be aS available as possible fat that purpose,
Mr, Kane: And I certainly concur with you, I yield to Paul's judgetnent on itivolve�
went. I don't Want to be an imposition on anyone it the city government but I atn
here and 1 expect to be able to respond. I've met with some of you personally and
1 expect to be able to elaborate and take myself available. I took a week's vacat-
ion to come down here to explore this city, to talk to you and for you to talk to
me and know something about me,
Mayor Ferret Well, let's see if we can keep on going with some of these other.
questions, One of them going down the line here is: Shat kind of career object-
ives do you have? If you get this job where are you going? Are you going to stick
with us a While or is this on your way onto something else or what?
Mr► Kane: Frankly, Mayor, I don't know where it would be from here, If 1 have a
career objective it is to be City Manager of a community like Miami and I've been
preparing myself in a variety of different management positions in public life.
For the past two years I've taken somewhat of a respite from City Managers business.
I deal in a number- of complex financing arrangements now, I've been regearing my
own personal abilities in a business training program and I want to be a City
Manager. I need to come back and emerse myself into an area that has the kind of
opportunity here. My career objectives then are to be a City Manager in a metro-
politan community such as yours.
Mayor Ferre: Well, now let me ask you in that relationship then, then why did you
leave Lakewood or why would you accept a job in a Housing Authority, a State Author-
ity for a two year period. Your objectives are towards city government, wouldn't
it be better to stay at Lakewood until another city opening came along? What
dimensions did you gather by getting into the State Housing Authority?
Mr. Kane: Well, I felt that after four and a half years one needed a different
perspective. I needed the opportunity to get throughout the state and talk to
people in a variety of different capacities. The organization that I'm in now has
to pay for its own existence. We have to make enough money to support our operat-
ions and I think you asked, Mr. Plummer, if I'd ever owned a business and I wouldn't
say that this was my business but in the occupation that I'm in now if I don't
make enough money to pay for operations I don't get paid and that is a very moti-
vating force.
Mr. Plummer: You'd better believe it. I like that kind of motivation.
Mr. Kane: And I thought that that, Mayor, was the kind of a challenge that you
know you could still be a Manager in the private sector, still p:-ovide a kind of
a social service that I view myself as a manager in doing this in this business
that I've chosen to make a career and haze all the challenge that it offers. So
that's really why I accepted it. I think that sometimes if you take a pauses in
your career, no matter what it is but as long as you're stiE. in that career, it
isn't that I changed completely my occupation. I still view myself as a public
manager. I think it has broadened my horizons and helped me as a person and as
a manager.
Mr. Plunmer: Mr. Kane, what the Mayor is saying is do you realize if you cone
with the city that you cannot retire until you reach age 55. Do ycu understand
that?
Mr. Kane: I'm not sure that I even thought a:,out retiring but that is the furthest
thing from my mind right at this point in my life.
Mr. Plummer: What we're trying to say is you can't retire then without penalty.
Mr. Kane; I take that for whatever it's worth.
Mayor Ferre: What was your salary at Lakewood?
Mr. Kane; When I left Lakewood it was around 31.5 as I recall.
Mayor Ferre: And in the state, what is your salary now? .
Mr. Kane: $38,500 approximately. It is a little bit less, it's like 38,473.
Mayor Ferre; Well, what he is asking is do you get an automobile?
Mr. Kane; Yes, I have a car furnished and the agencies pays half of my health
insurance program, They have a disability life insurance policy, I mean other
fringe benefits,..
Mayor Ferret You don't belong to the state pension system of any kind?
Mt, Kane: I am under what is called The public Ft ployees Retirement Act which t
was also in in the City of Lakewood.
Mayor Ferret I see and you build up on that.
Mr. Katie: I build up equity in that and if I leave I'm able to take out what I
put in...interest.
Mayor Ferret Well what is the equity? Is it 1% per year or 2% per year?
Mr. Kane: My own contribution which is right now up at 8%.
Mayor Ferre It's up to 8% but how much was it on a yearly basis, salary?
Mr. Kane: Well, when I say up to it was previously lower. It was 7 and it's gone
to 7 1/2 and it's now at a level of 8% of gross salary. We do not have social
security, we have strictly that pension system.
Mayor Ferre: What kind of people do you like working with? Don't get upset at
me, these are these geniuses at Arthur D. Little that think up these questions.
Mr. Kane: How can you answer that? Mayor, I like working with all kinds of peo-
ple. People are people to me. How do you answer a question like that?
Mayor Ferre: I don't know. It says, "What kind of people do you like working
with".
Rev. Gibson: You certainly want the people who are going to do the work. Anything
short of that you don't need them. I could answer that as a clergyman. Anytime
you take a church and guy doesn't produce you don't need him because he gets to
be a liability to the church and the church isn't any different than government,
we just don't have anything to give them other than the grace of God. Ok?
Mr. Plummer: What kind of people do you enjoy working with? The answer should be
native Miamians.
Mayor Ferre: No.
Mr. Kane: How could I top that?
Mayor Ferre: At Lakewood you were what, 3 years?
Mr. Kane: Four and a half years.
Mayor Ferre: You must have had an argument with the Mayor somewhere along the
line.
Mr. Kane: Yes, I did.
Mayor Ferre: What was your biggest argument with the Mayor?
Mr. Kane: Do I have to say that publically, your honor?
Rev. Gibson: Just remember you'll have one with the Mayor here.
Mayor Ferre: There was a question about that. What are some of the things that
you and your employer have disagreed on? I want to know, what did you have a
hassle over?
Mr. Kane: Well, I'm trying to search back. I had a good relationship with my
Mayor but he was a very demanding, very exacting individual...
Mayor Ferrer What's his name?
Mr. Kane: Jim Richie.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, that's the guy I talked to yesterday.
Mr. Kane; He's a regional sales manager for Proctor and Gamble and he expected
efficiency, punctuality and I suppose that the biggest disagreements we had were
when something didn't go exactly right and he felt a propensity to take large
hunks out of my hide and I simply felt that in some cases that was not appropriate
and told hit ao, But don't think t could point td,.,
Mt, Flutter: Was it because of this taking og huge chunks that you left the City
of Lakewood?
Mr► Kane: No, air► I feel that I had no job difficulties whatsoever► The Mayor
and the Council and 1 had a very harmonious relationship and I had absolutely no
difficulty at all,
Mr► Flutter! Would you say that the Mayor would have written a good recommendat-
ion to your new employer?
Mr► Kane: I would think he would.
Mayor Ferret Well, I actually took the liberty of calling the than personally and
I want to report to the commission that 1 yesterday had a conversation of about
5 or 10 minutes with Mayor Jim Richie of Lakewood and he has an extremely high
regard for Mr. Kane. He thought very hignly of him. He thought he was a capable
ambitious effective administrator, that he was very professional, hones. He had
a high regard. I also talked to Mr. Robert Turner who is as you may know one of
the top Vice Presidents of Federated Stores which is the company over Burdines
and he is one of the top professional managers in the country.
Mr. Kane: Former President of I.C.M.A.
Mayor Ferre: Former President of the I.C.M.A. and former City Manager of Cincinn-
atti and a real heavy -weight guy and he had a very high regard for Mr. Kane, for
Mr. Grassie and for Mr. Merritt Steirheim which are the people that he knew. It
was nothing against either Frank Spence or against Miller, it is justthat he didn't
know them. These three he knew. He said he had preferences which I'm not going
to relay here but he unequivocally said that any one of these three in his opin-
ion would make exceptional City Managers for the City of Miami.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, if we're going to have time constraints I think we'd
better bring this to a close.
Mayor Ferre: All right. Any further questions at this time? If not, Mr. Kane,
we'll see you....
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Kane, if you had to go back to any one of the jobs you've left
do you think the people would welcome you?
Mr. Kane: Yes, sir.
Rev. Gibson: Ok.
Mr. Kane: May I just make one final statement, your honor? I would like to ex-
tend my appreciation to you and the members of the commission for the courtesy
that you've shown to me. It has really been a pleasure to come down here and it
has been an honor for me. Let me tell you that if you get to the point to where
you select me for this position it is the kind of thing that I would welcome. I
believe that a manager has to be futuristically oriented, he has to think about
the future not only for himself but for his community and I sense that you're on
the threshold here of embarking on some new adventures and I'd like to be part of
them. Thank you very much.
Thereupon the City Commission recessed from 3:45 P.M. until 3:57 P.M.
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, Mr. Spence I apologize for that. We took a five minute
break and our five minute breaks always last 15 minutes. You're on. Here's the
way we're going to play it. Here's the way we play this game. You've got one
hour and five minutes(Rose, did you say?) Now we'd like for you to tell us about
yourself up to 15 minutes, less if you wish. And then we will get into a series
of questions and it will develop from there. You can say anything you want in
your 15 minutes - your background, why you want the job or anything else you want
to say,
Mr. Frank.Spence: Thank you, Mr. Mayor and members of the commission, Vice -Mayor.
First I want to introduce my lovely wife Margie. Secondly I want to thank you for
all the time and expense of bringing me to your fair city for this interview.
Mayor Ferre; Sometimes you lose out on some of these things.
Mt. Spence: I know you have been inundated with printed material ftom your cons'
sultants so let fie briefly review my credentials, toy background. I'm 40 years
old, 1 was born in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, I'm a Pennsylvania Dutchman.
1 was raised in the public school system of Michigan, received all my education
there and didn't work one day there so the state didn't get much return from the.
I attended public schools in Ease Detroit, Michigan. I attended the University
of Michigan where I earned a Bachelors of Arts Degree in Political Science and
my Masters Degree in public administration finishing up in 1960. I am currently
working ott my doctorate of Public Administration Degree from Nova University. I
have completed all of my class work which is two years long and as I look back
now I don't know how I did it but like anything else you do what you have to do
When you have to do it. A few more papers conceivably I could finish this year.
I did it to make me read, make me keep up to date in my own profession. I too
am inundated with reading material and find it difficult to keep up with what is
happening in my profession because Urban administration, public administration is
such a vast growing field and from the time that one out of every eight employees
in the United States work for some form of government that is now up to one out
of every six. So your largest employer that is continuing to grow rightly or
wrongly, good or bad is government from federal government on down. So I feel
this is my field, I have been a public servant all my life from the time I delivered
Detroit Free Press in the early mornings for five years to all of my work activit-
ies. I've always dealt with the public. I am people oriented and have always
enjoyed my dealings with the public. My professional activities after I graduated
from the Unitersity of Michigan in 1960 I went to Park Forest, Illinois where I
was assistant to the City Manager. Park Forest is a suburb of Chicago. Then in
1961 I came to Pensacola as Assistant CitY Manager in Pensacola where I had the
honor of meeting one Rubin O.D. Askew who was just entering the legislature at
that time. I was theere for 2 1/2 years until appointed City Manager of North
Palm Beach, Florida where I remained for 2 1/2 years. In North Palm Beach when I
took the reins of government there they were $150,000 in debt and had not yet been
recognized by I.C.M.A. as an officially properly organized city. So I proceeded
to literally establish the financial system, personnel system, purchasing system
and pulled the government out of a deficit before I left they had cash in their
treasury and I left it in good shape. After that I went to Liberia, West Africa
where I was a consultant to the government of Liberia. I was hired by Public
Administration Service out of Chicago on a two year contract which was funded by
United States Agency for International Degelopment. The purpose and concept was
that we were opex people. There is the U.N. concept operation executives, we
work inside the government and we can to be closely identified to the government
because we started defending the government of Liberia against Uncle Sam. We felt
that the people sitting in the Ivory towers in the American embassies and the A.I.D.
agencies didn't really know what was going on out in the fields. At our offices,
we were on a team. We're actually inside of governments of Liberia's offices,
their buildings. Actually we were paid through them and our mission was to train
our counterparts to take our jobs after we left. I carried the title of Chief
Administrative Officer for the Department of Agriculture and even though I didn't
know anything about agriculture we were there really to set up internal adminis-
tration procedures for the government in the way of personnel assistance, purchas-
ing, organization charts, finance systems, budgeting, the whole works necessary
for a government to operate. From there I returned in February of 1968 at which
time I was interviewed and hired as Assistant City Manager of the City of Miami
Beach. I was Assistant under Jack Duffield and Clifford O'Kee until Mr. O'Kee
left on November 1, 1972 at which time I was appointed City Manager, acting City
Manager actually until February of 73.
Mayor Ferre: (INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Spence: No, that was before I went to Liberia, North Palm Beach. Right,
that was before I went overseas. My activities in this area has been one of act-
ive involvement. I don't believe in staying in my office and hiding behind my
desk. I have been extremely active in the local community and a whole chart of
activities including President of Miami Beach Kiwanis Club, Corporate Member of
the United Way. I am Chairman of the Chief Executive and Elected Official Sub-
committee of the Manpower Planning Council as well as sitting on the Executive
Committee of that commission and I sit on the Dade County Mass Transit Technical
Advisory Commission and I've held positions statewide. I'm director of the Florida
City and County Manager's Association, this is my second term elected by my peers.
I was elected nationally to a national council seat of the American Society for
Public Administration as well as having formerly been presideht of a local chapter,
So my involvement professionally and socially has always been in the public admin-
istration field and I've been an activist involved in community affairs, commun-
ity problems, Now I feel that my strengths being local are that 1 have been in-
volved in area wide problems. We as sister cities are affected by many things
that happen in one agency or another or by Dade County which is the umbrella over
+O
all of us be it Mass Ttansit, Manpowet Planning, these ate the areas that I've
become very familiar with that your city and Miami Beach both have to jive With
and we ttied to put as Much constructive input as possible ftotn out Own various
positions and through distillation and compromise we come out with something that
is hopefully acceptable to each of our governmental entities. Projects that I've
been working on itt Miami Beach over the years ate very sitnilar to what you have
operationally. We have mote projects undet construction right now it Miami Beach
than I think the past put together, We have a model park similar to your BiCenten=
vial Patk. Out park is very innovative, it is an open space project of 20 acres
or so and was so impressive in design that the Bureau of Outdoor Recreation gave
us a grant of $750,000 towards the development of that park which will be fittished
next month, this coming summer. We have also developed a new youth center. We
are involved in convention halls that we've just completed which you're getting
into. We ate in a redevelopment situation in our South Beach area which you have
a downtown redevelopment agency. We have, we're trying to get a new marina which
will be the largest in the south when constructed. You have marinas here so I'm
familiar with that. I'm in a process of trying to attract to this area new hotels
that are essential for this whole area to continue to move forward. I am also in
a process of attempting to get a merchandise mart constructed on Miami Beach. All
of these things are similar to what you have operating here. Some of them are a
greater scale some of them are a lesser scale depending on the ptoject. I think
what one city does affects the other city as when I went to appear before you ask-
ing for participation for the political conventions which we successfully handled
the last three times in 68 and 1972. When we have new hotels or activities on
Miami Beach the people of Dade County and Miami benefit by that. They will work
there. It's essential to the construction industry. When I'm trying to attract
at least $150,000,000 new development in hotels and merchandise marts. I've been
dealing with theme park operators that I'd rather not name at this time trying to
lure them to this area because this is so essential to the greater Miami area.
All of these things benefit all of the people in this area. We have a common Man-
power area to draw from. Our suppliers, just about all of them are over here on
the mainland(as I say since we're from the island). The various suppliers and
food purveyors, etc. are all, will all be benefited by whatever we do on Miami Beach
or whatever is done here. It is is mutual, of mutual benefit to each of us. I
feel that we have not evert begun to tap the South American market. Those of
you who went on the South American trip with three of my councilmen and the governor
came back extremely enthused about the potential for the South American market
because that means South American tourists. That means South American businessmen
coming here and buyers. And again we all benefit. This activity is extremely im-
portant to us to strengthen our economy. We are a growth area, we're in a growth
situation and I feel we have tremendous potentia]. here. My standing before you
really is one of interest in feeling that the potential lies also here with the
City of Miami and the potential for me professionally lies here. I have no desire
to leave this area whatsoever. I think this is the finest area in the United States
and I believe in it and would continue to work in this area. So I think this if
I get the job is a great step professionally upward for me. The City of Miami is
one of the top ten cities in the United States with such a large population under
a council-manager form of government. So I feel I have much to offer, I have much
to contribute to this city, this whole area, this commission and feel that I could
ably represent your desires as the policy making body.
Mayor Ferre: Frank, just... What is the largest governmental entity that has the
manager -commission form of government?
Mr. Spence: Dallas, Texas, 820,000.
Mayor Ferre: Well then Metro is larger.
Mr. Spence: Yes, as a county.
Mayor Ferre: Are there any other counties in the United States that hae a manager
form of government that's larger than Dade County?
Mr. Andrews: Than Dade County, I don't think so.
Mr. Spence; They have chief administrative officers in Los Angeles and San Diego
County, it's a little bit different,
Mr, Andrews: I would say California, you'd probably have to look to California
and you'd find many there, I have not looked it up recently but I would suspect
that California,.,,
Mayor Ferrel Dallas has the City Manager form of government and yet the Mayor of
Dallas as I recall, both Fred .,, Oh Houston is Hoffheintz. OH, Dallas is Jess
Weiss, bits stand corrected, Look, we have a series of questions that the ct,nputet
ran out of the Arthur D. Little backlog and I'm just going to rattle down some of
these questions and what we're doing infottnally is I'll ask the question, you cart
answer it and then from there we expand according to what the commission waists to
do and we might ramble a little bit but I'll try to stick to this fortiian and
they're the same questions that will be asked of all the candidates. The first
one is: In your last job or your present job, what were some of the things that
you spend the most titre on? What do you emphasize? What's really the important,
out of the 40 or 50 hours that you work in a week what do you dedicate the major-
ity of your time to?
Mr, Spence: Meetings. I'd say, and I don't say it facetiously, I'm involved in
an awful lot of council appointed boards and committees as well as citizen groups,
I'm out an awful lot.
Mayor Ferre: How can you function that way? I mean it seems to me, I'm always
reluctant, very concerned about getting the Manager here into too many meetings
because as it is he's got to put up with us twice a month and waste a whole day,
sometimes 12 hours. How can you be spending most of your time in meetings?
Mr. Spence: It isn't most, I attend many meetings of a constructive nature. The
others are really as an expediter for our capital projects to move them forward.
In the past due to various delays and procrastination many of our projects have
not gotten underway. Our citizens approved bond issues back in 1968 to 1970 that
when I took office in 73 I think there was about $40,000,000 in the bank in bond
money and so my priorities set by council was get those projects going, get the
architects hired, get the contracts awarded, let's get these things built as soon
as possible or you're going to run out of money and that's exactly what happened
in a couple of our projects.
Mayor Ferre: Did you concur with that priority personally?
Mr. Spence: To move forward, yes. I thought at the time also we were able to
help the local economy and construction industry in getting these projects under
way and this in turn saved our citizens money because there wasn't.a better time
to make awards than during the time fortunately that we were able to make these
awards of contracts. This had a very top priority. 0ur marina, moving that for-
ward it took three years to just get a permit from the state.
Mayor Ferre: Is that under way now?
Mr. Spence: We're asking for proposals, we're advertising nationally on the marina.
But it took us three years to get a permit through the I.I. Board, this type of
thing.
Mayor Ferre: Let's see what's involved.
sion. Did that come under you?
Mr. Spence:
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Spence:
Mayor Ferre:
hotel complex
started where
Now you have the Convention Center Expan-
The final stages did and it was opened just a year ago while ...
You have the performing theatre. Is it yours?
Yes, sir. It started and ended under my administration.
You have a marina, that hasn't started yet. You also have the
near the Convention Center, that hasn't started yet. The park has
you got the $700,000 grant.
Mr. Spence: Right. We have a new City Hall that's completed, that started...
Mayor Ferre: That started under you.
Mr. Spence: Right. That ought to be finished the end of this summer. A 1500
car parking garage behind Burdines for the Convention Hall also.
Mayor Ferre: How did you do that? Tell us how you did that parking garage.
Mr. Spence: The parking garage, we have a metered parking system that is an
independently funded but is not autonomous like you have here. I as the City
Manager fully control the employees of the metered parking system but all the
employees and all their expenses are paid for solely out of the revenues of our
parking meters, Also all land acquisitions and construction of parking facilities
are paid for solely out of these bonds. So they are in affect revenue bonds and
do not encumber your operating budget or any bonded endebtedness other than the
revenue from meters whatsoever,
Mayor. Fetret How much did your parking garage end up costing pet stale Ot total?
Mt. Spence: About $2,000,000 per year. We have 10,000 Meters throughout the city
It is a great revenue generator.
Mayor Ferre: The garage cost you $2,000,000?
Mr. Spence: No, 4.5 million dollars.
Mayor Ferre: That's about $3,000, that's very inexpensive. That's less than what
we do.
Mr, Spence: Yes, and I know at the time we made our award Coral Gables made award
for $4,400 per parking space.
Mayor Ferre: How did you do that? How did you get it down to #3,500?
Mr. Spence: Well, one was a good designer, Bliss Nitray.
Mayor Ferre: Who did you use on that?
Mr. Spence: Bill Nitray has a national engineering who is local, Norman Gillen,
a local architect. And by the proper design although it was very sophisticated
with glass elevators installed for safety as well as aesthetic purposes, and hitt-
ing the market at the right time again we saved at least a million, million and
a half dollars.
Mayor Ferre: What kind of a bond rating do you have now?
Mr. Spence: We have an A-1 bond rating and to my knowledge no other city in the
State of Florida has a higher or better bond rating.
Mayor Ferre: We have the same, we have A-1.
Mr. Spence: Right. While some people are concerned about our financial stabil-
ity believe me we are very stable and through tight financial budgetary controls
that I've exercised as well as the discretion used by the City Council in appropriat-
ing the budget and even cutting back my budget we are able to maintain actually a
reservoir of additional funds that could be available should the council ever de-
sire to tap those. Like we're the only major city around here that still levies
only a 7% utility tax. Everybody else has a 10% utility tax. We don't levy the
first nickel in a sewer user fee although we're going to have to. I think your's
is up to about 120% of your water bill. Water we make money off of. Franchise
is a revenue but we still have some leeway in generating revenue within our city
but through like I say tight budgetary controls even to the extent that I've been
forced to lay off employees to stay within our budget, I've had to do that and
take a hard fiscal line in living within my budget.
Mayor Ferre: What's your bonded indebtedness at this time?
Mr. Spence: Oh, I don't know the exact figure I think it might be 60, 70 million
with maybe an additional 15 that's been authorized.
Mayor Ferre: What's that as a percentage of your total?
Mr. Spence: As percentage it's only 4% of the assessed evaluation. Assessed eval-
uation of property in Miami Beach is a little under 1.5 billion dollars.
Mayor Ferre: That's a litle bit higher than what we are. Right? Not much.
Mr. Andrews: We have a bonded indebtedness of about $98,000,000 and we're about
2 1/2 %.
Mr, Spence: As you know you're permitted to go 15%.
Mayor Ferre; What's the millage on that?
Mr. Spence: The millage operational is about 9125 mills and bonded indebtedness
3.35 I believe, bonded indebtedness.
Mrs. Gordon; Do you charge your citizens for garbage pick up?
Mr, Spence; Yes, we do, $66 per year back door pick up twice a week and it is
subsidized out of the general operating revenues of other sources.
Mayot Ferre: You meal that is not enough to covet to you have to subsidite it.
Mt, Spence: We esti:tate it costs $129 a year, double what we're charging, —
Mayor Fette: So that comes out of general teienue funds.
Mt, Spence: Yes, sit,
Mayor Fette: What percentage of your total budget that you spend other than
capital expenditures comes out of the millage, the assessed, in other words the
local Ad Valorem Taxpayers as a percentage of 100%?
Mr. Spence: About 18 to 20%,
Mayor Ferre: Wow! That's less, what are we, about 30%? You're that low? You
mean to tell me that over 80% of your money comes from other than Ad Valorem Taxes?
Wow! How come you don't get editorials?
Mr. Spence:. We have a $41,000,000 budget and we generate 11 or 12 million off of
Ad Valorem property.
Mayor Ferre: Does that $11,000,000 include debt repayment or is that just general
working?
Mr. Spence: ..include debt repayment.
Mayor Ferre: It does not?
Mr. Spence: Yes, it does. ...have to qualify that under percentage on the operat-
ional at 11 million we generate another 3 million for bonded indebtedness, a little
bit higher between 20 and 25%.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, ok. That's sounds more like it. How many employees do you
have?
Mr. Spence: 1700. _
Mayor Ferre:
about half. How many members in the Police Department?
So your budget is about half of ours and your
employees are just
Mr. Spence: 250 uniformed, 350 total which includes civilian personnel and dis-
patchers.
Mayor Ferre: How many departments do you have?
Mr. Spence 14, 15 departments. Fire, Police, Public Works, Planning & Zoning,
City Clerk, City Finance, in Public Works the whole realm of services from Water
and Sewer which we do still maintain, Streets, street lighting, building mainten-
ance, Parks & Recreation, extensive community programs aimed mainly at the elderly.
As you realize we are one of the oldest cities mean -age -wise in the United States
and our main problem area is the indigent elderly and we have been forerunners in
I think developing outstanding recreational programs as well as contributing to
the hot meals program which was one of the first in the country.
Mayor Ferre: In that area, how much do you get from Revenue Sharing and how do
you use that money?
Mr. Spence: 1.3 million dollars. It becomes an integral part of the budget but
I've maintained the philosophy that it should go towards major non-reoccuring
expenses and capital projects. I do support some limited activities like build-
ing inspection, Bass Museum operation of which I am also chairman of the Board of
Trustees of the Bass Museum since we're into the cultural thing too in this county.
But most of it has been parks, paying payments towards park acquisition that were
not paid for out of bond funds. I stay away from salaries.
Mayor Ferre: Let me get right to it and ask you. The social programs, you were
talking about indigent and the elderly and what have you, what percentage of your
total budget goes for that? Where does the money come from? What kind of prog-
rams do you have? Do you have day care centers for the elderly or what are you
doing?
Mr. Spence; Actually very limited because (1) we do not want to duplicate services
provided by Dade County. Secondly, the Jewish Federation does an outstanding job
on Miami Beach and puts in a lot of people, a lot of expense into out South Beach
area, So they operate vocational training program down therey sheltet aorkahops...
Mayor Ferre: We11 answer my question.
Mr. Spence: Percentage.=wise very little.
Mayor Fette: A million dollats, half a million dollars? Do you have a department?
Mr. Spence: We11i we have a Social Service Director who people go to if they need
a little extra money for food or to help them but it is very small,
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Spence, I'm confused now because you told me you've got a budget
of 40 some odd million dollars and 11 million comes from Ad Valorem. That teahs
50 some odd million comes from somewhere else. If only a million and a half comes
out of Revenue Sharing then where does the rest of it come from?
Mr. Spence: Well, there is a multitude of various areas from occupational licensing,
Mayor Ferre: The big ones.
Mr. Spence: Water, we sell our own water, We resell water. I think we made 3 and
a half million dollars off of that.
Mayor Ferre: Well, we weren't as smart as you were, we gave ours away. We don't
even get a penny out of that, Metro gets that.
Mr. Spence: Franchise, utility tax, resort tax, all of this as a gross budget....
Mayor Ferre: How much does the Resort Tax amount to?
Mr. Spence: Over $3,000,000.
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Spence:
take off the
Mayor Ferre:
Does that
We are the
collection
50%.
come in your general budget or does that go directly to...
responsible agency in collection and distribution. We
charges and then give approximately to the T.D.A.
Mr. Spence: Yes, sir. So we utilize our 50% to pay off the bonds that we sold,
the Revenue Bonds that we sold to pay for the $12,000,000 expansion of our Con-
vention Hall. I believe it is a very good source of revenue ...
Mayor Ferre: I was responsible in part for passing it with Lou Wolfson and some
of the others in 67 so I know. I wish we could have gotten it for the City of
Miami.
Mr. Spence: Right. I can't agree with people that someone wouldn't come here
because they had to pay 2% on their bill because as a tourist or a businessman it
goes right on, it's just on top of the 4% sales tax and becomes a good generator
for a number of tourist related activities not just plain promotion for your pro-
motion department but any facility that might be tourist related like our Convent-
ion Hall is paid for completely by Resort Tax money.
Mayor Ferre: Do you make any money with your Convention Center or is that subsi-
dized out of general?
Mr. Spence: It is subsidized a little bit. We fall a little bit short in breaking
even.
Mayor Ferre: That's pretty good.
Mr. Spence: Right. I think we bring in about a million dollars in rentals and
revenues and our operating costs are 1.1, 1,2 million dollars.
Mayor Ferre; That's pretty good, that's terrific, I'm surprised at that.
Mr. Spence; It is a very good operation. This year will be the best in history
and the bookings at our new Theatre of the Performing Arts are the best ever.
Mayor Ferre; Who does Hal Cohen work for?
Mr, Spence; Hal Cohen works for the Church Development Authority. He's the Exec-
utive Director.
Mayor Fette: Ite doesn't work for you,
Mr. Spence: No, sit. They're completely autonomous and t have
over the operation of the T.D.A.
Mayor Ferre: Does the T.D.A, operate the Convention Centet?
Mr. Spence: No, sir, we do. The Convention Hall operation at the Convention Ra1M.
Complex is a department under the City Manager.
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Spence:
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Spence:
which is the
Mayor Ferre:
.Mr. Spence:
requests for
no say whatsoever
So the Manager reports to you directly.
Yes, sir.
Is there an advisory Board or an authority of any kind?
Yes, we have 50 advisory boards the City Council appoints, one of
Convention Center Advisory Board.
Does it function or it just a...?
It is very functional, it serves a very good purpose in screening out
various variations to our rental rate or deposits of changes in con-
tract conditions of the contract, whowever is renting that hall.
Mayor Ferre: Well how do you handle that because I'm sure you've got the same
problem that we do, a lot of people coming in all the time wanting the hall for
free, the Boy Scouts and the Catholic Youth and such and such?
Mr. Spence: We run that facility, you own and run it as a city in a proprietary
interest. You must operate in the best interest of the city. Our policy has
always been that you do not give that hall away.
Mayor Ferre: To anybody?
Mr. Spence: Nobody!
Mayor Ferre: Hadasa doesn't get it? The St. Patrick's group doesn't?
Mr. Spence: If you do it you can book it one whole year and not get the first
penny out of rental. If you have a uniform policy you don't give it free to any-
body period then they'll come up with the money. They'll come up with a donation.
Mayor Ferre: That's hard to believe.
Mr. Spence: 0r they'll go the the T.D.A. and ask them to underwrite it.
Mayor Ferre: Does the T.D.A. underwrite?
Mr. Spence: Sometimes if they're big conventions or if we're trying to lure a
convention of say 20,000 Kiwanians or Lions down here as part of the consideration
of use of that hall and to get conventions down here which will bring millions of
dollars to this economy then the T.D.A. might pick up the rental which might run
4 or $5,000 but it's worth the investment. But you've got to have a uniform con-
sistent policy and then stick with it with no deviation whatsoever no matter how
worthy the cause.
Mayor Ferre: Let's go a little bit into the Police Department and see how you
operate that. Does Rocky Pommerantz run that department pretty much or do you get
involved with him?
Mr. Spence: No, I am blessed with some very outstanding department heads that
their reputation is national in stature and Rocky as you know was President of the
International Association of Chiefs of Police last year and my Parks and Recreation
Director this year is the equivalent, President of the National Parks and Recreat-
ion Association, And I have others, my Personnel Director is on the National Coun-
cil of Public Personnel Association...
Mayor Ferre: Were these people that you brought into the system or did you inherit
them?
Mr. Spence; Some I inherited, Rocky was there when I came there but I appointed
Roger Brown our Parks and Recreation Director when I came there. So Rocky was there,
Rocky is an outstanding and noted police administrator and I rely upon his professional ---
expertise in the running of that department,
NIP
Mayor Vette: How tatty, you have a population as t tecall of 90,000...
Mr, Spence: 90,000, Yes, sit: Howevet, we do swell to over 200,000 in the
season.
Mayor Ferret Of the 100,000 people that you have in your city what percentage of
then ate Spanish Surnamed? Because I know there is a big Cuban population build-
- ing up.
Mr. Spence: Right. 1 would say 10,000.
Mayor Ferret So it is 10 to 12%.
Mr, Spence: Yes, and growing.
Mayor Ferret You don't have too much of a black population, do you?
Mr. Spence: I would guess the number to be 200 at best.
Mayor Ferret Alright. So let's concentrate on the minority that's identifiable
which is the Spanish surname minority. Now what affirmative actions have you had
there or with women? For example, let's take your Police Department. What per-
centage of your Police Department is Cuban -American?
Mr. Spence: I'm afraid I don't have any figures on specifics. I think just one
or two blacks. We had up to S.
Mayor Ferre: Well have you been involved at all? And Frank, I want you to under-
stand and don't misunderstand my style. I happen to be kind of an outspoken per-
son and sometimes I come across as antagonistic. I'm not in any way being antagon-
istic to you. I think poor Mr. Kane must have gone away thinking that I was try-
ing to chop him up. I wasn't, I was just trying to get information and sometimes
you know you have to get into these harder areas and I hope you forgive me for
that. And anybody who wants to interrupt me interrupt me now if you get any quest-
ions to go along with this. But let me start out with your statement here at the
implementation of an Affirmative Action Program. Since it is the law of the land
and we like all other cities must comply with the E.E.O.C. guidelines I am direct-
ing the preparation of our own Affirmative Action to the City of Miami Beach. Now
_ that sounds like an apologetic statement, it strikes one as an apologetic state-
ment to say it is the law of the land so we've got to do it. And now I ask you
what percentage of your Police Department is since 10-12% of your population is
Spanish surname and I asked you what percentage of your Police Department, you
don't have the figures. So my next question is coupling this statement with the
previous statement about percentage in the Police Department, what have you done
for Affirmative Action?
Mr. Spence: Well, the City of Miami Beach has always been an Equal Opportunity
Employer and after E.E.O.C. guidelines came out and a few court cases which threw
out recruiting tests we began reviewing and scruitinizing our own tests too because
we realized that they were certainly let's say W.A.S.P. oriented all the way down
the line and that's no longer acceptable. The testing procedure has to be job
related and in certain jobs we've even eliminated the written tests like heavy
equipment operator, you let the man operate the piece of equipment. You don't
have to worry about, as long as he has that drivers' license you don't have to
worry about him sitting down and making a written test. We have advertised exten-
sively in the Miami area and in the minority newspapers and on minority radio stat-
ions soliciting as broadly as possible the jobs that we had available. Now within
the past year or two we've had a complete freeze on employment so that has posed
a problem. Relating to that has been, I won't call it a problem, but we are an
ethnic group ourselves on the island and the vast majority of the population is
Jewish and as an ethnic group there are certain citizens who did appear before our
Personnel Board and had them change the hiring requirements so that our citizens
who lived on Miami Beach were given the first crack at the job. They were going
to restrict literally some jobs, most of the jobs unless they broad in scope to
permit me and my Personnel Director to go outside off of Miami Beach to hire those
individuals.
Mayor Ferre; Is that Civil Service or is that a Personnel Department?
Mr. Spence; We have a Personnel Department under the City Manager, However, we
have a Civil Service law and a Civil Service Board that is autonomous and they
handle, they set and they approve the criteria of all the jobs, all the classified
service jobs that we advertise and they have the absolute right and power to put
in any criteria including residency of which they have,
Mayor Fette: Residency is a legal requitement but as I understand the law a
religion, I mean if you'te Jewish that means that you belong to the Jewish faith,
That's not an ethnic and it is not classified as a minority in the same sense of
black of Spanish surnames, Is that correct?
Mr, Spence:
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Spence:
Mrs, Gordon:
Mr, Spence:
No, That does pose a problem except on Miami Beach:,,,
I'tn not talking about my opinion, I'm talking about the law,
Hight, I'm sure that's...
He's saying Miami Beach has its own law,
That's true except when you restrict it you have that effect,
Mayor Ferret Well but see, that's legal. You can say we're going to hire locally.
That's legal. But you cannot say we're going to hire Catholics or we're going to
hire people of Jewish faith because as I understand under the law that is not an
ethnic minority classification but rather a religious classification.
Mr. Spence: Right. I had one councilman....
Mayyor Ferre: Now you can say, women for example, are now classified as you know
as part of the minority qualification.
Mr. Spence: Right. When I hired my first black department head, Jim Riley, he
was not present at the meeting and one of my councilmen was very upset that I wasn't
proposing more department heads of his ethnic following and he must have thought
Riley was Catholic which he wasn't. And I told him I did not accept his approach.
I told him what he was asking for was against the law. I said I cannot make any
differentiation between race, religion, national origin or sex and that didn't
satisfy him and he still voted against my recommendation because council has the
right of confirming my appointments. But I personally, and I want to assure each
and every member of this commission I am personally committed to the implementat-
ion of an Affirmative Action Program and I believe it and I believe the essentials
of it for harmonious community relations. And I do not like anything that smacks
of bigotry or racism or anything else. This has been my personal life style.
Mayor Ferre: Well Frank, what are your strengths as a Manager that we could see
as you stand before us? What are your strengths?
Mr. Spence: Well, people oriented. I'd say a mover of projects, getting things
going. I have many problems that might be similar here but attacking problems,
coming up with solutions and making recommendations to the commission. But I'm
people oriented, I believe in dealing with all the people. I try to get out as
much as possible and it's difficult sometimes so many times I feel like I'm stand-
ing in a vat of molasses with golashes on and I can't get out. But I do where
possible make myself available to the various representative groups and I do have
good relations with my various unions. We have 5 unions on Miami Beach, A.F.S.C.M.E.
which we've had a contract with since 1968. We were I think the second city in the
State of Florida to recognize A.F.S.C.M.E. after Tampa in 1968 after they struck
us. We recognized them and entered into a collective bargaining agreement with
them, a contractural arrangement and have had good relations down through the years
through their President John Gibson and now through Alden Hanna, their current
President. We have the Benevolent Employees Association which is the geheral employees.
We have the Fraternal Order of Police. We have the I.I.A.F., the International
Association of Fire Fighters which is A.F.L.-C.I.O. and we have a Professsional
Life Guard's Association.
Mayor Ferre: How do you get along with these various unions?
Mr. Spence: I get along with them very well.
Mayor Ferre: Do you negotiate directly or do you have a professional negotiator?
Mr. Spence: No, I don't. When I was the Assistant City Manager I used to handle
all the grievances. In the contracts a complete grievance procedure is spelled out
starting with the first level up to division head, department head then into the
City Manager's Office, And I as Assistant City Manager usually handled those and
my Assistant City Manager now handles those. Under the contract if they're not
satisfied with our results at the fourth level, the City Manager's level they have
a right to go to arbitration utilizing an arbitrator for the American AAA, the
American Arbitration Association, But in any case I do not negotiate directly and
think that from my experience and from those I have talked with the Manager should
not be the direct negotiator, You have ptofesSi.onal§ to do that, you should rely
Oh your professional negotiatots. It is a long, involved, intensive, extensive
series of discussions and takes much, much time, We hited at outstanding legal
firm out in Chicago to advise us,
Mayor Verret Who is that?
Mt, Spence: Shaw, long name, Ted Clatk is their main representative
who has becotne an outstanding specialist.
Mayor Ferre: You've told us about your strengths, now tell us about your weaknesses.
What, in your opinion, honestly, we all have weaknesses, what are yours?
Mr, Spence: It's awful, I always concentrate on my strengths and fight, fight,
fight all the time and I never... I don't know, I must have some. Some of my
friends say perhaps I might be too nice a guy that if I was a woman, I'd be pregnant.
Mr. Plummer: I could see the headlines tomorrow, 'Pregnant Manager proposed for
Miami'.
Mayor Ferre: You better be careful because Rose will jump you with a statement
like that one.
Mr. Plummer: Let me get out of that. Can I ask a few questions?
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Frank, some of these I know but I asked of the others and I want to
be fair and establish a record. What kind of computer experience have you had,
if any?
Mr. Spence: I helped initiate the study that led to the acquisition of the first
computer in City Government on Miami Beach. The first one was a small IBM, we
leased that for two or three years. After that, we had a Bond Issue passed whereby
we were able to afford to acquire outright a computer. We hired the firm of
Pete Marwick Mitchell and they assisted us in developing specifications in adver-
tising. We had 4 proposals that came in from 4 different firms and we eventually
selected so just within the past year, we just had a B-2700
installed. We're computerizing all of our accounting records, budgetary accounting,
all of our personnel leave records, personal history forms. We've just sent a
letter this week to Mr. Blake, we want all of the tracks and census information
on our computer so we know exactly between all the vital data of all properties
within the City from assessed value to size, utilization and zoning. We expect
to get into Fire and Police information and to have an 8-year program maped out
as to what we're going to install on it. It is on line now, we even rented out
time to our Credit Union and making some money that way and it will be moved into
our new City Hall this summer.
Mr. Plummer: What experience have you had in Pensions?
Mr. Spence: Pensions? I, because of my position, sit on the City's Pension Board.
It's comprised of 7 members, the City Manager, 2 Councilmen, the Finance Director
and 2 employee representatives for a total of 7 members. This is for the General
Employees only. The Fire and Police have their own Pension System. We meet monthly,
we have a consultant, actually we have 2 Consultants, when 3 years ago we decided
it was best interest of the City Pension System to split it in half and give it
to 2 different Consultants to see who could have the best performance in handling
our investments to the benefit of the System. Our Pension System now, for the
General Employees, is about $26,000,000.00. That 3 years is coming to an end, I
think they both have acted very good, their performance has been very good and it
will be up to the Board to decide if we go out to bids again. The Pension System
for Fire and Police is 3% is their factor, times year of service, times two years
highest average salary, For the General Employees, it's 2.75%. There's talk now
and there is a .proposal on the desk of the Commission to consider reducing the
benefits of future employees. Grandfathering the current employees in now but
because of the great expense, the multi -million dollar expense against the System,
we're thinking about reducing benefits to everyone for all new hires in the future
by a factor of .5 so Police and Fire were reduced to 2.5 and the General Employees
to 25, The General Employees contribute 6% of their salary into the Pension System.
The City matches the difference which right now is running approximately 30 to 33%
of an employees salary. It is a very expensive proposition because of the benefits
and this is one of the ways we hope to reduce that cost to the City. We have to
make up the difference out of our General Operating Fund.
Mrs, Gordon: Frank, can I ask you a question about that? Does the City have an
Unfunded Accrued Liability?
Mr, Spence: No, we ate fully funded. We are in a Very good situation but out
Actuary said next yeat we're going to be hit with a great inctease because osier
the past 2 years, our incteases have been so great. We pay aftet the fact what
we have to contribute in October of this year as based upon the whole payroll as
ended December 31, 1975, Over the last 2 years pay increases ranging from 7 and
a half to 10% of our salary so since $22,000,000.00 goes towards payroll, people's
salaries alone, this is greatly reflected in the cost of what we have to pay to
snatch so there's going to be a big jump come this...
Mrs. Gordon: Probably have an Unfunded Liability then.
Mr. Spence: Yes but we're okay now.
Mrs. Gordon: Yes but it'll catch up with you.
Mr. Spence: Well we have to keep paying or we will be in a bad situation but the
way we maintain a completely fully funded System is make sure we contribute every-
thing that the Actuary tells us we have to to maintain a sound, fully funded System.
Mr. Plummer: Have you ever been in private business or business for yourself?
Mr. Spence: No, I have not.
Mr. Plummer: You've always worked in municipal operation.
Mr. Spence: Always in the public sector, yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Are you familiar with the Charter of the City of Miami as the relation-
ship between the Manager and the Commission?
Mr. Spence: Generally, yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: What do you think of it?
Mr. Spence: I think it's proper.
Mr. Plummer: I'm relating as to the Commission setting policy and the Administration,
their role as opposed to the Commission's role.
Mr. Spence: My working relationship is almost identical in that nature. This is
the policy -making body, the Legislative -making body and the City Manager is your
Chief Executive operating the City on a day-to-day basis and executing, in his
best judgement, how to carry out the gold policies and priorities established by
the Commission.
Mr. Plummer: What has been your personal relationship with the Civil Service Board?
Mr. Spence: Personally, I've only appeared before them once, I haven't had to. My
Department Heads are very unhappy with the personnel Board. All disciplinary actions
are appealable to the personnel Board. A Department Head who might give as little
as 3 days suspension without pay is appealable and can be reversed and that employee
receives money for not really working. My Department Heads feel that they do not
get the support in disciplining their employees in order to get the job done. It
becomes a morale factor and they feel that the personnel Board is leaning more
towards the employee than to Management so this goes, this affects my Fire Depart-
ment, my Police Department and every single one of my other departments. I feel
that they, as Department Heads on a recommendation of the Field Supervisor Division
Head, are in the best position to know that employee, his actions on a day-to-day
basis and whether he truly did what he was accused of and then you come before a
Board cold and say well, he's a good employee and he's been here 15 years and he's
a good guy, without looking into the merits, we find ourselves reversed 80% of the
time so it becomes a problem.
Mrs. Gordon: A question back on the Pension Fund again. What was your City's
contribution to the General Employees Pension Fund last year?
Mr. Spence; 33%.
Mrs, Gordon; I wanted you to tell me how much it was in dollars,
Mr. Spence: I don't have my budget here. I'd say maybe 3 and a half, 4 million,
Mrs, Gordon: It was that including Police and fire?
Mr. Spence: I think both Pensions combined came to almost $6,000,000.00.
Mrs. Gordon: About $6,0000000.00 and that's for 1700 employees?
Mr. Spence: Yes.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Andrews, what was our contribution?
Mr. Andrews: (INAUDIBLE)
Mrs. Gordon: $9,000,000.00 for 3600 employees.
Mr. Spence:
employees.
1700 active plus we have 300 on retirement now so that would be 2000
Mrs. Gordon: Two what?
Mr. Spence: I said 2000 employees...
Mrs. Gordon: Including the retirees.
Mr. Spence: Right.
Mrs. Gordon: Well ours did not include the retirees. 3400 employees including
800 retirees?
Unidentified Speaker: That couldn't possibly be.
Mr. Plummer: Sure it is.
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: No, we've got 3400 in Pension...
Mrs. Gordon: Employed.
Mr. Plummer: ...We do not have any Manpower on Pension.
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE).
Mrs. Gordon: Right, it's twice as much but only 1/3 as much as a contribution.
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: That's right but they pay 3% a year when we pay 2 and a half. Don't
you pay 3%?
Mr. Spence: Fire and Police receive 3% and General Employees, 2.5%; that just went
up in the past two years.
Mr. Plummer: That's a big difference. is that they have no unfunded
liability which means they are on a situation. Now they're going to
get caught up with some next year but what happens is what they do, they are also
on a 40-year Funding as opposed to our 20.
Mr, Spence: That's right. WE're on a 40 year funding, amateurization.
Mrs. Gordon: 40 year and 6,000,000.00?
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Spence: It was our way out, We were facing that too.
Mr. Plummer: Now wait a minute!!! I want you to repeat that; it was YOUR WAY OUT!
Mr. Spence; It was our way out ...
Mr, Plummer: You're damn right!
Mr. Spence; ..,because otherwise it would cost us a few million dollars more and
we were at 30 years before and out Actuary out in New York said that'§ fine and
acceptable.
Unidentified Speaker: (INAUDIBLE)
Mayor Perre: Frank, let me ask you this question. Getting back to you sounded
and I've heard you sound like Paul Andrews has you don't like, as I read it, too
much influence in disciplinary decisions by the part of the Board where anything
over a 3 day layoff they can get involved in and reverse your decision, that
creates morale problems, did I read that right?
Mr. Spence: Yes,
Mayor Ferre: What have you done to correct that? You've been Manager for 3 and
a half years, that's a recognized problem, what did you do about it?
Mr. Spence: Well before, my Department Heads didn't even show up and we find the
rate increasing if our Department Heads When Pocky comes up
personally, as the Chief of Police, and says that patrolman did thus and so and
I recommend it and you don't know what he did and I'm strongly for it or you're
going to blow the whole morale, they seem to be influenced by his presence.
Mayor Ferre: Yes but I don't even want to use Rocky as an example because he's a
very special guy. You can't use Rocky as an example...
Mr. Spence: Okay, even putting Rocky aside, my Department Heads who come up and
take a personal interest in the cases have a higher success rate when they're
present than when they're not present. Now the only way we can change a Civil
Service Law is by putting an item on the ballot...
Mayor Ferre: You mean a Charger change?
Mr. Spence: Charter change; it's the only way.
Mayor Ferre: You can go for structural changes that don't violate the Charter
like the Manager has done here but don't violate the Charter.
Mr. Spence: We wanted to get into one and two day disciplinary action which I
understand either Miami or Metro has which are unappealable. I think one, two
or maybe up to three days...
Mayor Ferre: We don't have that, do we, Bobby?
Unidentified Speaker: No.
Mr. Spence: Not here, it must be Metro. But our City Attorney...
Mayor Ferre: WE don't have that kind of problem here, do we? Paul, we don't
have that kind of a problem, do we, to that extent?
mt. Andrews: Specify the problem.
Mayor Ferre: Well he said that the Board over
disciplinary action. You're on a 3 day layoff
problems because they're continually reversing
Mr. Andrews: Let me tell you, I think we are.
Mayor Ferre: You think we have that problem?
there gets involved in every
and it creates all kinds of morale
the Department Head's decision.
I think...
Mr. Andrews: Yes, I think we are and I think it's been increasing for several
reasons. One because of Civil Service and the ability to appeal and, of course,
I don't know if, over at Miami Beach, whether Mr. Spence has the authority as
City Manager to overrule the Civil Service Board if there's a cause to do so...
Mr, Spence; No, I don't.
Mr. Andrews: If he does not have that, then that increases his problem. We don't
have quite the same problem that you do,
Mr, Spence; That's right, I have no power to overrule their decisions,
Mayor Ferre; Alright, fet's see what other questions we might have,
f4
(INAUDIBtB)
Mayor Ferre: Frank, what ate your career objectives?
Mt, Spence; To be the best City Manager in the country.
Mayor Ferre; Fines but were going to expand
where are you going?
Mr. Spence: As I said, I wouldn't
Mayor Ferre: You would not.
Mr. Spence: No, I like the area, it has potential here
here, we have 3 sons and it's just a wonderful place, I
Mayor Ferre: If you got an offer to become the Manager
wouldn't consider it?
on that. You're 41 years old and
consider any other job outside this area,
and my family is very happy
think, to bring up children.
in Dallas, Texas, you
Mr. Spence: No, it wouldn't... You have the two finest jobs in the United States
right here; City of Miami and Dade Metropolitan County are the two largest
governmental entities that have a great amount of respect in the profession and
again, being a professional, I probably worry more about pier judgement than I do
local judgement but thank goodness up to now they both come up in the plus side.
The best jobs are right here, City of Miami and Dade County, and to insurge in
proving myself to contribute to growth situation which is great, I think that's
the exciting part of Miami -Dade County. This is a growth situation and you haven't
even begun to tap the potential of this area be it the South American Market or the
European Market and what you're going to do here today is going to be around a long
time and this is why planning is so important, certainly consideration of your
resources is important but I think also we - I'm an optimist, maybe an eternal opti-
mist but it's like my theater, sure there are some problems but I dwell on the 95%
good. Sure there's 5% problems so you work with that but I think it's like people
who knock the area. You should be so thankful for the 95% good that you have here
and we'll work on the 5% by making various adjustments in the carbuerator of the
car and we're going to make the thing work and we'll have a first class City here
but we've got to stop knocking ourselves in how bad things are because I'll tell
you, all you have to do is go to just about any other City in this country outside
of this area and you come back here and you're very thankful when you come in over
that airport over the beautiful City of Miami and you're so thankful to be home
because this is beautiful.
Mayor Ferre: What's, now this is a tough
the same whos paper that covers us covers
publicly here at this point, what is your
the major problem that you have?
question because you're on the job and
you but as far as you can elaborate
major frustration on the job? What's
Mr. Spence: I think the delays in getting things done. I get accused of being
part of the bureaucratic red tape machine too and I think we're both equally
responsible, both meaning the City Council and the Administration. Sometimes
things get studied to death, sometimes you have to go by gut reaction and just
plain do it and the delays - I'm in it now with my Redevelopment Agency.
Study, study, and you can study something to death and I think it's a 4 to 3 situation
right now and I could lose that and that could be killed and that's the unfortunate.
Mayor Ferre: 4 votes to 3.
Mr. Spence: Right and we just sometimes can't wait for delays, we've got to make
decisions right or wrong and move forward because indecision is wrong and delay is
wrong and no decision is a decision so to move forward, things have got to be done
faster and sometimes they aren't our fault when it takes 3 years to walk a permit
through the I. I. Board up in Tallahassee is extremely frustrating too. Our
frustrations have been time -taking to implement certain programs.
Mayor Ferre: Frank, I got one other question that I wanted to ask you and that's
in relationship to the problems that you had with Metro like all of us had and the
concern. I went up before your council one time, we talked about double taxation
and all that and how do you feel about a ' form of government and how do you
feel about the relationship of Metro, second question. Third question, what do
you think of the viability and long-time picture for the City of Miami and do you
think we have to kind of bring out these in4quities that exist with Metro at this
time,
•
Mt. Spence: Well pet your visit before my City Council, they go along with your
position and t believe have indicated, asked the Attorney to review the situation
in joining you possibly in this suit on double taxation. We'll teview it and see
if we will join you on that. 1 think Dade County exists for a purposes they have
functions to provide, thete's no doubt about that. It's on an areawide basis to
provide areawide services but certainly the inequity and even the State Law, the
legal situation whereby double taxation is prohibited. The people pay for the
services they get. If you live within a City you pay for those services and if
you're in an unappropriated, you pay for municipal pipe services that are being
delivered to you in that area but your people should not be paying for something
and people in Miami Beach feel they're grossly overcharged a great inequity there
because of our land is 1.5 billion dollars in assessed valuation in an area
only 7 square miles and what we get back is very minimal. We used to contribute
up to 35% of the County's Budget. I think right now we're at 13 or 14% of the
County's Budget in values generated. I think the system of government
is probably the best we could look forward to or hope to arrive at over the years.
I think certain services can best be delivered on the local area and it should
continue to exist, there's no doubt about that. Others really have no reason to
exist and should be part of an overall district as part of the form
government.
Mayor Ferre: That's fine, now comes the hard question which is, you've been at that
job for 3 and a half years and what have you done about clarifying that situation?
Mr. Spence: Well it's just become, I think the law was only passed in the State
Legislature...
Mayor Ferre: Three years ago.
Mr. Spence: Three and...
Mr. Lloyd: The implementation statute became effective on January 1, 1975.
Mr. Spence: The City of Miami have certainly been spearhead in that. We have
looked at our Consultant. We have a consultant that we hired to evaluate this
from the FAU/FIU Joint Governmental Center to advise us on the situation and how
much it could mean to us...
Mayor Ferre: Is that another report?
Mr. Spence: His report just came in and said it could mean $6,000,000.00 in our
so it is a very real problem and we think we can get some money out of it
and that's why I think there's a strong possiblity that we'll...
Mayor Ferre: Good for you.
Mrs. Gordon: What is your salary, Frank?
Mr. Spence: My salary is $41,000.
Mr. Plummer: 41,000 plus or 41,000 ?
Mr. Spence: You have a car, plus , plus expense account...
Mayor Ferre: Frank, let's get back to an area which of course is of major concern
to all the members of this Commission and that is the Consent Decree. Now again,
you know that we have two Consent Decrees. One of them that we're still at court
with, the other one, the Cone case, we're halfway through and I say this with all
due respects to you but in view of the fact that you don't know what the percentage
of your ladden policemen is in your Police Department when you have a 10% Spanish
surname population, how are you going to handle this Consent Decree? How are you
going to approach the problem and this is a loaded question I want to tell you
right from the beginning.
Mr. Spence: I can't believe there are too many options, I think when a Decree
comes out of the court, you do it. You carry it out...
Mayor Ferre: There are alot of options. You know there are alot of options.
Mr, Spence; You mean complying with the Law or the intent of the Law or if you're
going to look for.,.
Mayor Ferre; There's always the spirit of the law. There's always a good reason
•
and a real reason for almost everything, Not everything = sometimes the good reason
and the real reason coincide► it does not often happen but it happens, In most
things, there are alternatives, There ate alot of ways where a problem comes up
and it takes you two months to settle that one and then something else comes up,
Talking not only about the of the law but the intent.
Mr, Spence: As I said, that's a personal comnittment, I would back it in spirit
and law to see that it's implemented certainly as expeditiously as possible. I
think only then can you cut down any resistance to it, any internal impediments
you may have, If everyone knows where you stand, and I think my employees and
my Department Division Heads know where I stand the City from staff meetings and
what I say, they're going to do and I make sure they do it,
Mayor Ferre: Let me turn it around and put it another way, You don't have the .
same problem as the City of Miami does so it's very difficult to be analagous and
the so-called ethnic population, the Jewish population of Miami Beach is not
completely analogous because that isn't but now, for example, without naming the
names, we know that you had several of your Councilmen that have put alot of
pressures on, publicly, I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said publicly
where Councilman so and so says this is a Jewish City, you've got to hire more
Jewish people or why aren't you hiring more Jewish people? How do you approach
a problem like that? How do you go about it? I'rn sure you've had people...
Mr. Spence: 0h yes, said first of all what he was proposing was
unconstitutional and illegal.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, of course. I realize that but, for example, women. Let's take
the case of women. Now you do have women over on Miami Beach, don't you?
Mr. Spence: 0h yes.
Mayor Ferre: ANd they are constituted as a minority. What have you actually done
in affirmative action of implementation to see that women are brought into every
phase of the City's operation. You've got almost 2000 employees other than
Secretaries, I'm not talking about Secretaries. Do you have any Department Heads
that are women?
Mr. Spence: My City Clerk, Elaine Matthews, is a woman and she's a 30 year career
employee...
Mrs. Gordon: How long has she been there?
Mayor Ferre: 30 years. She inherited the job.
Mr. Spence: Well I split out one Department and appointed Jim Reiley, a black,
as my first Department Head. A couple of my Division Heads, my metered parking
system is now a woman, it used to be a man. I make those evaluations and I'm
conscious of trying to correct the situation and wherever I see qualified people,
regardless of race, religious, sex or anything, I try to get as much of a spread
as possible, a mix, knowing how it has been in the past and I'm trying to break
that; it's difficult. I had one who is Executive Assistant, David Piece, who
became City Manager of Miami Shores for awhile, he was replaced by a woman. My
new Neighbor Negotiator who replaced Saul Popper, Barbara Strum, is a woman and
she's my chief neighbor negotiator right now and she's something.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I want to make an observation that alot of you, last
Thursday, didn't really understand. A very interesting thing was, he didn't
remember... The question you raised just before you got on the phone about minority
of women and he forgot too. She whispered to him. I just want to make sure that
you all understand why I said that when you invite these men to come here and
for these jobs, make sure they bring their wives and I want to tell you that
I didn't see the wife of the other man.
(INAUDIBLE)
Rev. Gibson: All I want you to know is, we made that a part of the contractural
agreement and I saw him but I didn't see her. Look, I haven't even talked with
you, I haven't talked with you but you see what happened. I just want to make
sure. I don't have all the smarts has because he deals with their money
but I know that gut thing. I want you to note that. Go ahead and don't let me
take anymore of your time.
0
Mt, Plunn et: What he's really saying, Prank, is if you get this job, yout wife is
going to constantly rebind you that it was because of het you got it,
Mr, Spence: She keeps track of me attd I want to tell you, she's a fine another and
she's also a teacher and graduated Michigan with me,
Mayor Ferre: Well that's wonderful, Ate there any other questions of Mr. Spence
at this tithe?
Mrs, Gordon: Just a few questions about Miami Beach and I don't hold you respon-
sible for it but I think the greatest overbuilt City in the world, I wonder what
kind of zoning reforms or planning might have been taking place in Miami Beach since
you have been in charge?
Mr. Spence: Actually, it's a transitional thing. We redid our whole Zoning Ordin-
ance and all classifications within the City in 1971, October. Actually • downgrading
it, we hired an outside firm to do a density study, , and they projected
the ultimate population of Miami Beach to be 105,000 people and you do that by
deciding what your density units per acre are and where your commercials should
be as part of your master development plan. This is very important and under
state law, either you do it yourself or you're going to have the State or Dade
County come in and tell you what you're going to do.
Mrs. Gordon: You did that in 1971?
Mr. Spence: Yes. Secondly, by the vote of the people, we took rezoning, take it
back, we took variances, zoning variences away from the City Council and gave it
to a 5 member Board and they sit there and hear these appeals for
variances from our parking and zoning ordinances and they're appealable only to
the Circuit Court so in effect, we took the politics and the City Council out of
the variances and the zoning aspect because there were sOm2 troblems in the past.
Mrs. Gordon: South Beach area is an area that is in need of renewal. What plans,
during your Administration, are taking place for that area?
Mr. Spence: Since I've been in office, to my suggestion but some people don't
appreciate it, we've had a moritorium on the South Beach are for almost two years.
Now the purpose of that is if we're going to come in and redevelope it, you're going
to have to acquire the land and assemble it, it's just going to cost you that much
more money to acquire a brand new expensive buildings, it's a 200 acre track. We
advertise nationally, we had 64 firms, , respond. It was a great response
and we're down to, hopefully, about to sign a contract with a national firm out of
San Francisco - they did Square, Bunker Hill and a couple of other great
projects out there. It'll take them 6 months to do the plan, to design the plan
and then after that it'll take 8 to 10 years but your looking at the po-
tential of 1 billion dollars in brand new money from the private sector.
Mrs. Gordon: It's going to be developed by the private sector.
Mr. Spence: Yes.
Mrs. Gordon: And you have already selected a firm to do the plan.
Mr. Spence: Yes, out of San Francisco.
Mrs. Gordon: Would you repeat that slower.?
Mr. Spence: Weurster Bernardi...
Mrs. Gordon: What happens to the Senior Citizens who are the present residents of
that area? Will there be some low cost housing to provide for their needs or will
they be moved across the Bay?
Mr. Spence: Yes, absolutely. This is the perfect example of a legal and moral
commitment to relocate indigent citizens out of that area into adequate, low
cost housing for the elderly.
Mrs. Gordon: In the same location?
Mr. Spence: It will be immediately north of that. There will be some provided
but the idea is that during the planning and redevelopment areas we have sites
that they would be located to just immediately north of 6th Street, Still be in
Miami Beach, still be on South Beach but hot as fat south and it's a transitional
period I think they figure tight now thete are no mote than 44000 elderly that would
requite housing arid the teal figure tight even be closet to 2,000 and we have an
application in now to develop 201 housing over the over out parking
lots so you figure the eldetly indigent cant afford a car, cant drive physically
or mentally and have no need fot a cat, therefore we do waive the parking requite..
meats of housing for the elderly and what a better place than to put them over a
parking lot, public parking lot where the general public can continue to use the
parking lot, we get money out of the meters and if they have guests, they can still
come in there.
Mrs. Gordon: That's a good way to do it, . One thing that I have heard
in the past few days that I want to ask you your opinion about was the enormous
amount of truck traffic that is taking place on Miami Beach now as compared to
what it was prior to the enlargement of the Convention Center and what would
happen with regard•to the trade center that you were talking about. Would that
cause any additional traffic problem from the standpoint of heavy truck traffic?
Mr. Spence: We don't anticipate it to be too much greater. It definitely would
be increased by any new facility over there which is identified as a "traffic
generator". However, we did have the firm of Wilbur Smith and Associates come in
and do a complete traffic and parking survey of the whole area and they had
delineated improvements that will have to be made in order to facilitate the flow
of traffic into Miami Beach as well as out of Miami Beach after any is
over. That will come about much sooner than any mass transit terminal that would
be located at the end of the Convention Center which is what the Master Plan calls
for in mass transit but it isn't that much of a problem since we are linked to the
mainland by 4 major Causeways so it isn't that great a problem. A few one-way
streets pairs and the widening of some streets, better computerized signalization
will facilitate the flow of traffic much better but I see it not being as any great
problem.
Mrs. Gordon: Last question, maybe you answered it and maybe I wasn't listening
carefully enough. Where would the money come for the development over in the
over the parking lots.
Mr. Spence: We're looking to private developers to come in and lease it from the
City. That becomes a revenue generator for the City. We're looking at that as a
revenue generator for us.
Mrs. Gordon: Well wouldn't there need to be some subsidized payments so that
these people could continue to pay the kinds of rents they could afford? Who
would subsidize it? Are you looking to the Federal Government?
Mr. Spence: No, we're not looking to subsidize if you're talking about hotels and
merchandise . If you're looking at low rent housing, that's strictly 201,
that's purely federally funded and subsidized...
Mrs. Gordon: 0n the over the parking garage, you'd lease them...
Mr. Spence: Right, the applications are being reviewed in Washington right now.
National Council Senior Citizens and are the two main builders of
housing for the elderly.
Mrs. Gordon: Okay.
Rev. Gibson: Let me ask one question. I know where the problem is but I want to
ask it anyway. I'm a little disturbed that the only two cities in this County
that have not turned over their housing authority...
Mr. Spence: Ours is up to the new Rebecca Towers and we were so small, 50 units,
that's all they had, Now that was a policy decision and I'll tell you that housing
authority upset the City Council so much that they were ready to throw them out but
I would say there's a majority on my City Council, they don't want to give anything
to Dade County they don't have to and so they've continued to be this resistant
although there's been some talk like the Fire Department or maybe Lifeguards but
they figured that what we have to Dade County has not been run to our expectations,
Beach maintenance is a Dade County responsibility and it has deteriorated greatly
and we get the complaints for it so there's been great resistance to turn over any-
thing else to Dade County to operate, they don't want anything to do with Dade
County,
1
Rev, Gibson: Let to say; my comment I 11 make to you on housing: t happen to be
the Vice -Chairman of the Eoatd,
Mt, Spence:
Rev. Gibson:
Mr. Spence:
Rev. Gibson:
I'll make my
Mr, Spence:
neck for the
Housing authority?
Right,
Of Dade County's housing authority?
Yes. I understand how you feel and where you're corning froth so
comment to you,
That's why that's had such a turnover, It's been a real pain in the
Council, there's no doubt about it,
(INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Spence: No, I appreciate the opportunity to address this Commission, I feel
honored that firm selected me, felt that I was compident, qualified,
which I certainly do and check me out with my piers and got their acceptance prior
to ever submitting my name so I feel very proud about that and I feel that I would
be an asset to you and to the area and I think I can do the job that you need
doing.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Spence, let me just say for myself that I want to thank you and
I'm sure I speak for all the Commission for taking your time and I know that it's
really a risky thing, going out and doingwhat you've done becausethere might be
some people that might be a little upset that you're even thinking about something
like that but I wanted to tell you that, in my opinion, you're really one of the
finest Managers that I've ever run across and I certainly think that you are a
major contender for this job and I think that you've done an exceptionally fine
job in Miami Beach and as I told you this morning, my real main concern is that
I'd hate to take such a capable man out of an important job in this Community and
I'm sure that your leaving would leave a vacuum there just like Paul's leaving this
City is leaving a vacuum here and it's just going to be hard to fill both of them.
Mr. Spence: To make you feel better, my assistant is the former Assistant City
Manager of Miami also, Dod Southern, so he is very capable plus a classmate of
mine in Michigan.
Mayor Ferre: Well trained?
Mr. Spence: Well trained.
Mayor Ferre: Anybody that worked for the City of Miami has got to be okay.
Mr. Spence: Good backup.
Mayor Ferre: Well we certainly thank you for your interest and your time and our
very best wishes to you and good luck to you.
Mr. Spence: Thank you.
NOTE: Thereupon, the meeting adjourned at 5:22 PM.
MAURICE A. FERRE
Mayor
ATTEST: H. D. SOUTHERN
City Clerk
CITY OP MANI!
DOCUMENT
MEETING DATE:
April 134 1976
ITEM NO.
DOCUMENT IDENTIFICATION
COMMISSION AGENDA AND CITY CLERK REPORT
I COMMISSION
ACTION
RETRIEVAL
CODE NO.
0001