HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1976-03-25 MinutesOM ISSION
MINUTES
8:30 AIM. THURSDAY, MARCH 25,1976- DOUBLE TAXATION
OF MEETING HELD ON 1000 A.M. REGULAR SESSION BEGINS
7:35 P.M. BAY HEIGHTS TRAFFIC FLOW STUDY
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
CITY HALL
H. D. SOUTHERN
CITY CLERK
RALPH G... ONOLE
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
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MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
AMMO
SPECIAL MEETING - DOUBLE TAXATION
REGULAR MEETING
ZONED STREET WIDTH - AMD. ORD. 6871 ART. XXV, SEC. 1
PARA 121-A
STREET CLOSING-N.W. l-LTH STREET ROAD AND HIGHLAND ROAD
N.W. OF 14TH STREET.
PROPOSED CHANGE OF ZONING - LOT 11 BLK 1 GROSSE POINTE
HIGHLANDS ADDITION.
REQUEST FOR CHANGE OF ZONING CLASSIFICATION, NELSON
VILLAS & GARDEN OF EDEN LOTS 12-16.
PUBLIC HEARING -EXTENT) HOURS OF SALE OF ALCOHOLIC
BEVERAGES 4 COP.
PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF SENATOR HARRY CAIN, PRESENTAT-
ION FROM GOODWILL INDUSTRIES FOR ORANGE BOWL POLYTURF
DISPOSAL.
PUBLIC HEARING - PROPOSED EXTENSION OF HOURS OF SALE
OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES 4 COP; APPOINT STUDY COMMITTEE.
PRESENTATIONS, PLAQUES, CERTIFICATES OF APPRECIATION.
WAIVE RENTAL FEES - WATSON ISLAND & SHOWMOBILE FOR
PONCE De LEON CELEBRATION APRIL 4, 1976.
ORDINANCE OR
RESOLUTION NO,
M 76=291
FIRST READING
R 76-292
M 76-293
M 76-294
DEFERRED
DEFERRAL
M 76-295
DEFERRED
M 76-296
MOTION WISHING SPEEDY RECOVERY TO SENATOR CLAUDE PEPPE .M 76-297
PERSONAL APPEARANCE - DR. RUIZ TO REQUEST FREE OFFICE
SPACE IN OLD RIVERSIDE BAPTIST CHURCH PROPERTY TO
FACILITATE HANDLING OF PROGRAM TO AID LOBSTER FISHER-
MEN.
PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF MONTY TRAINOR REGARDING FOUNT-
AIN AND LANDSCAPING AT FOOT OF AVIATION AVENUE AND
SOUTH BAYSHORE DRIVE.
DEFERRED
M 76-298
REQUEST CITY MANAGER TO DETERMINE FROM DEPARTMENT OF
NAVY THE AVAILABILITY AND POSSIBLE RELOCATION TO MIA/
AS A MUSEUM THE U.S.S. MISSOURI. M 76-299
PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF MR. LLOYD HOWARD -COMPREHENSIVE TEMP. DEFERRAL
ALCOHOLIC PROGRAM
PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF MR. JACK WEISS - CITY OWNED
STREET LIGHTING
PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF MR. LLOYD HOWARD -COMPREHENSIVE
ALCOHOLIC PROGRAM, FUND FOR PERIOD OF 1 MONTH NOT TO
EXCEED $4,000.
PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF MR. ROBERTO TABOAS TO REQUEST
ZONING RELIEF FOR PROPOSED APARTMENT BUILDING TO BE
BUILT AT 735 S.W. 5TH STREET.
PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF MRS. CHARLES STARKEY - TRAIL
MINI -PARK
REFERRED TO
MANAGER
M 76-300
DENIED
DISCUSSION
PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF ATTORNEY JESSIE MC CREARY,
REQUESTING PROMOTION OF PERSONS TO CONFORM WITH INTEN1
AND PROVISIONS OF CONSENT DECREE(OFFICER WHITE)., 0 M 76-302
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18
19
19-23
24-28
29-34
34-35
35-36
47
47
48
48-50
50-52
52-53
54-55
55-59
59
60-63
63-69
69'80
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING
CITY Cr)MM? S`' i C)N OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
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On the 25th clay of March, 1976, the City Commission of Miami, Florida
met at its regular meeting place at City Hall in said City in SPECIAL SESSION
to consider the matter of double taxation.
The meeting was called to order at 8:30 A.M. with the following
members of the Commission present:
Vice-A,ayc,r Rose Cordon
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson
Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Cotrni.ssioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A Ferre
Also present: P.W. Andrews, City Manager
A.P. Crouch, Assistant City Manager
John S. Lloyd, City Attorney
H.D. Southern City Clerk
Ralph G. Ongie, Assistant City Clerk
An invocation was delivered by Rev. Gibson, who then led in the pledge of
allegiance to the flag.
Mayor FErre: This is a special meeting, called at 8 o'clock for the
purpose of reviewing the matter of double taxation, so I will turn over the
Mr. Andrews and the City Attorney, Mr. Lloyd for discussion on this item.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor and members cf the Commission , would like Mr.
Lloyd to begin this process of explanation as to where we are in the matter
of double taxation and I will assist :rim in responding to areas involving any
given subject that he so choses, but because we are in the process of potentially
litigating this matter, I think it more appropriate that the City Attorney take
the leadership in explaining to the Commission, and I would appreciate very
much there will be areas that Mr. Lloyd will not wish to get into at this time
because of the pending case, but we want to fully answer your questions and give
any explanation the commission wishes in reference to this matter.
Mr. Lloyd: What I will do briefly this morning is to explain the legal
aspects, the rights of the City, under the state constitution. Let me explain
what we have done so far, so the commission can make up its mind first, to give
the final order to proceed if you desire with the lawsuit and second what areas
you wish us to cover in the law suit.
We are ready to proceed if the commission directs it, with a petition
for declaratory judgement what is the legal instrument which is filed in court
which is appropriate to file in court under these circumstances.
Under your resolution of May 8, 1975, you identified five services
rendered by the county, especially for the benefit of the unincorporated areas
which were the fire department, the south Dade government center, the south
Dade community health center, the department of public safety, the department
of parks and recreation. First, briefly, I'll make this as undetailed and as
simple as I can, but you must remember that myself, Mr. Andrews and his budget
staff and others have spent months on this, and I am going to try to explain
it to you in 5 minutes, but I will do it as best as I can.
In the 1968 revision to the state constitution, it provided that property
situate within a municipalities, should not be subject to taxation for services
rendered by the county exclusively for zhe benefit of property or residents in
unincorporated areas. On 1 January, 1975, a florida statute became effective
which provided a method of implementation of this constitutional provision. Pursuant
to this statute, a.; I told you, you passed your resolution of May 8, identifying
the 5 areas which yru thought were rendered especially for the benefit of the
residents of the unincorporated areas and submitted that to the county commission.
Also pursuant to the stature, we have prepared the law department after extensive
study both factually and legally, an instrument to be filed in court if you wish.
And you have of course rendered another resolution authorizing and directing one
to file such ar. instrument. So today you will determine whether you want me to
file it, and what areas we will. ._over of these five.
Mayor Ferre: Today we would lez ert ie whether we would atop you from filing,
MAR 2 5 1976
Mr. Lloyd: Yes, that Is cc,rYect If you tell me not to file. Unless You
tell me not to, i will do It.
First, I will tell you quire. samply, that after our study, we have determined
and i will tali the commie -non that we would not: be prepsred to file unless
we had determined this, that we feel the the City of Miami has such rights
so that from a stand point of a declare t:1.:.)n of the rights by the court, which
is the first thing the court does in cases °iu h as this, is that, we can state
ghat is known as a cause of action. :: ct ;c :_hat. .,e have a right which can
be determined by the court, that the ieeai' princ.ip3 es are we have a right to
have determined by the court t:h: t eropeetv which r ecei\'es benefits in the un-
incorporated area which the city doee ,,,t we have a right to relief
from taxation.
Now, you will note, and I must cal'. tt•i;: to your aetertion, the term
exclusively in the constitutional -cevis..tr. Tor supreme court of Florida in
the case of St. Petersburg ve. Rile-J., hr.c:, , i :-1:ea that term to meat substantial
benefit. What they mean is this, that i - r c.: t:y receives directly or indirectly
a substantial benefit from a service rocderee specially to people in the un-
incorporated areas, it is not entielcd to tax relief bet the benefit that the
city has to receive from this must 7e seestentia3., otherwise they are entitled
to relief. Some benefit can he received by the City and they can still get tax
relief. In that case however, and :. cell t';::r to yoer attention, there was a
sewer line which was only 1r the un?.r..,oe oreted areas anc St. Petersburg claimed
that was of no benefit to the eesidcetl c'_= t. pe.'_ersburg and the court first
enunciated the substantial benefit er'.etie ,e het then held that disease knew
no boundaries and because of ::he healt; irctor for the unincorporated areas
of eliminating disease all over ;:he couetee St. Peteesburg did receive a
substantial benefit from the sewer i'ne in thy- unincorporated areas.
So I nay to you that we 'o have a leeal eight which Is a principle which
can be litigated in court. The proof is rne, :ee :tatter, so therefore what we have
done is, after extensive study. if yea:. '.,en. .<> wish to hear from the police
chief, the fire chief and we h;:.ve c< 1iyu tewe ed of the department of parks
and recreation as to what services, T. este3. them a series of questions which
they are prepared to answer gener4 :y. Then yot can decide if you want to go into
all five areas. I will make this su g s`cu. that if we file, we do not limit in
any one area because the law is against: eh,t they term splitting causes of action.
In other words if you have damages, you bring them all forward in one case, all
that you have arising out of the s ma situ^t'_on or you are precluded from later
bringing them in, so you don't keep going 'e court.
Mayor Ferre: So you had better open i ; a'.i up.
Mr. Lloyd: I am prepared to do that., and your resolution generally
provides for that, and then what we prove, ee prove, what we don't prove we
don't prove. If you wish to hear from Nr. endrews, and if Mr. Andrews wishes
the fire chief and the police chief and Mr. ;award to explain any factual matters
which they have covered and pursuant to ,h.2 constitutional provision and the
substantial benefit provision in Riley, I have discussed this the fire chief,
police chief and Mr. Howard and so as tc provide me with any information to
determine what proof we will offer.
Mayor Ferret Okay, will you proceed ;ben?
Mr. Andrews: T will be glad to respond to any questions the commission
has . The specific areas that we are talkie; about, for purposes of explanation
are the public safety department, fire, public works and parks and recreation.
I might use an an example to assist the commission in this area, the public
safety department of Metropolitan Dade County as example of where, everything
that we can find documented in.'.icaticr_ he: there is a definite area of double
taxation. The Metropolitan. Dade County ':;z4 ;_ is divided into to two parts. That
budget which serves the ertirc coimunicy, aed an additional budget document that
provides those services in the unincor poraccd Wiree as to their method of funding.
When you examine these two documents, you eistover that there is a proportionment
of funds which is attributable to the i.ninenreorated area. When you begin to
analyze the services rendered to theCity cf '.i.ani because the City does receive
some services directly from the public sef.ty department, an example of the listing
of those services is, crime ?aboratnry, bonb disposal, marine patrol, a helicopter
service, and a few other minor services. I'ee bulk of the services rendered
to the unincorporated area iheeleed beelee:i1y communications, communications
MAR 2 5 1976
maintenance and repairs, uniform patrol, or the uniform bureau which really
accounts for the greatest proportion or portion of the total Metropolitan
Dade County budget for policing services in the unincorporated area attd
it is $18,640,180. in the currect budget. The detective bureau, the police
division and then a pro -rating of administrative costs to both the area
wide services and the unincorporated municipal services area, then is
documented a disparity of some 8 million dollars, that is carred in such
a way that that become a burden upon the taxpayers of the City of Miami
for services provided in the unincorporated area, when the City of Miami
through the letter the City Manager sent to Mr. Goode on August 1,1975 we
documented this in areas of responsibility, in the specific dollars so there
will be no question ay to the c_ity`s statements, so these numbers could
be challenged.We wrote the letter in such a way, that we were being extremely
conservative in our approach, we stated in the letter that we were making every
effort to give the benefit of doubt to Metropolitan Dade County, we were not
in argument with regional facilities, not matter where they were located in Dade
County. An example of that, we were not challenging the fact that they may program
more money at Greynolds Park than they do at Key Biscayne for the major regional
park there, Crandon Park or. IiOmestead Park. We were not challenging that. What we
were challenging was the neighborhood type of service that is rendered to the
unincorporated to the unincorporated area and wherein the City of Miami taxpayer
was carrying the burden of those services while we were preparing or providing
our own services. So the public safety department serves as a good example in
this area and I could go on to the fire department which is another similar
area, examining the two budget documents submitted by Metropolitan Dade County.
We.discovered once again that there was a formula devised by Metropolitan Dade
County based on a population figure which then prorated the costs of those
services on a population basis, which has really no meaning as far as the City
of Miami is concerned, and in reference to mutual aid as far as the fire services
are concerned, in my judgement. ar.d the chief can address himself for the record
once again, if you wish,although he has already stated this for the record, that
the mutual aid is about 99% tc the county, and I may be generous when I say 1%
to the City of Miami. I am not being derogatory in that area, that is just the
facts of life. We have a superior fire department with 15 stations in the City
of Miami, well equipped and the service is rendered as it is. Mr. Mayor I could
go on with these examples. I am convinced of this disparity and I had hoped as
a result of the lengthy letter we sent to the County, that they would, tracking
the law, respond to us, in a detailed manner, describe precisely where we were
wrong, if in fact we were wrong. What we received as a result of that response
and Mr. Lloyd, assist me in this area, what we received in response was a letter
steeped 90% in the legal technicalities in this matter.
Mayor Ferre: Let me interrupt at this point for this purpose and addressing
myself to the members of the Commission, what we are about to do today is
really a major step in the life of this city and I think it is a major step
not only in the life of the City but in the life of Metropolitan Dade County.
There may not be any turning back after today. This was going to be brought up
before the court and Mr. Lloyd and I talked and it is such an important step,
I really wanted for all of us here in the commission to know full well what we
were about to do and to understand and be fully conscious of the consequences
of what we are about to do, and even though the commission has already passed
authorization to proceed in this law suit I personally, the more I think of it,
the more I have studied It, and talked to people about it, recognize that this
may be the most important vote all us may cast in our tenure of our respective
office, and I want to make sure of two things, one, that we are fully aware of
what we are doing, and secondly, I want to make sure that we get as much information
from the administration at this public hearing, so that when we are challenged
we will be challenged every day to defend our actions, that we will be as conversant
on it as we possibly can because believe me, after today it is not only going to be
the press, and radio and television stations, but at every civic club you go to,
or every Rotary meeting or cnurch group or what have you, you are going to be
asked why is the city suing, Metropolitan Dade County and I think it is important
that we take the time to be as conversant as we possibly can, and therefore
Mr, Andrews I think it is important to hear from the top adminstration of the
city and get their opinions.
Chief Hickman: I would like to compare some of the services that we
receive from the county and what the county receives from the city of Miami,
Basically there is a Mutual aid pact throughout the county and we are part of i
The only other benefit we receive from the county is their fire ordinance
requires their fire chief to have a central reporting system. They furnish
us the forms, a monthly print-out for this service. What we basically, in
nutshell give to the county, belonging to the mutual aid, we coordinate
and dispatch and control mutual aid for all cities and counties, out of our
communication department. From 1970, until 1975 Dade county sent us one
piece of apparatus on a mutual aid pact, we dispatch 14 times multiple
dispatches, and briefly 7 would like to run through some buildings that
do belong to the county that we get'numerous runs, Metro Justice building,
49 runs, this is for this year, Jackson Memorial Hospital, 101 runs, Dodge
Island seaport 47 runs, Claude Pepper Tower 26 runs, and many more.
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me for interrupting, they are very interesting
facts, but it really doesn't speak to the heart of the issue. The heart of
the issue as I understand it, is not how we cooperate and help Metro, which
is wonderful and very commendable,but the fact that the taxpayers of the city
of Mlami are paying taxes for a service which they do not receive. That is
really the crux of the matter, we have our own top fire department that gives
that service to the people, and the people are paying for, they are paying taxes
to the City of Miami, then they pay taxes to Metro for fire services which are
not received, and the question therefore to you, really, I think you must address
yourself to before this commission is, for the taxes, whatever they may be, that
the citizens of Miami pay to Metro for the receipt of fire services, do we receive
any service and if so, what is that service snd how much does it amount to?
Chief Hickman: Well, Mr. Mayor, that was in the early statement, we do
receive forms for our county -wide reporting from the county and we do receive
as I said before, one mutual aid. But when we switch to the other side here, ----
Mayor Ferre:
we give more than we receive, ----
Chief Hickman: --we give many more times than we receive, plus this is
not mutual aid runs when I am talking about the Metro Justice Building,
Jackson Memorial Hospital, etc. We put many hours on fire and rescue runs
in the county buildings. I can't put a figure on how much money we receive
in aid from the county. I would say it would be minor.
Mayor Ferre: It isn't aid, it is service.
Mr. Andrews: Chief if we eliminated the fire department of Metropolitan
Dade County, and had our own fire department, only to be dependent upon,
would we be completely solvent as far as fire services are concerned in the
City of Miami. Do we depend at any time on Metropolitan Dade County to assist
us in controling fires in the City of Miami?
Chief Hickman: No, the
be if a 747 dropped inside
Mr. Andrews: There has
Am I correct in that?
Chief Hickman:Correct.
only time that I could believe
the City of Miami. It would.be
only been one such incident in
Mr. Andrews would
then a major disaster.
40 years or so.
Mr. Andrews: What you are telling the commission then is that we do not
rely on any services whatsoever from Metropolitan Dade County and if facts
can be brought out to substantiate that the people of the City of Miami are
paying a portion of their county taxes to support a fire system in the un-.
incorporated area, that that is an unnecessary expense in your opinion as
the Chief of Fire as far as the operation of fire facilities in the City
of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: Is that a correct statement?
Chief Hickman: That is a correct statement, we receive no service from them.
Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen we are honored to have a former mayor
of the City of Miami, Chelsie Senerchia,----we are happy to have you here and
I apologize for the delay on whatever item you are here on. We had this 8 o'clock
meeting to talk about double taxation. I would like to take the opportunity for
the members of the public that are here, including former Mayor Sener'chia, to try
4
MAR 2 51976
to focus, and I. think this is the most dramatic way of doing it with the
fire department, the exact problem that we are faced with and t want you
Chief to stop me whenever I say something that is not accurate or not quite
right. Eighteen years ago, there was the establishment of a system which tae
now call Metropolitan Dade county. That system was really the result, it
was a compromise, it was the result of a group of people meeting, trying to
figure out how to solve the problems of growth in the community, that then
had 150,000 people, and the duplication of services. The initial reaction
as you well remember was, to work around the City of Miami, but they trade
a basic mistake, those gentlemen who made that basic decision then. The
mistake was, that they didn't want to work through the City of Miami, what
they should have done, is they should come and work something through the
City of Miami and eventually end up with a consolidated form of government.
In a way it is lucky that they didn't have enough strength to do that, because
subsequently, I think those who are students of Metropolitan government have
come to the conclusion that the best service rendered to people in large
Metropolitan areas, and we are now a million and a half people, and you must
really count Broward county, because a lot of people work here and live there,
so we are really a community in excess of 2 million people, a metropolitan
community, that the best way to give service to local communities, is by having
a two-tier form of government and letting the people at local smaller level
make decisions as to what kind of services they want. Now, this city has had the
opportunity on several occasions, the last one was several weeks ago, to decide
whether it wanted to continue as a community, as a city, and it has amazingly
really, voted in favor of such things as housing bond issues, and other things
to tax itself, which normally communities don't like to do, especially in these
dfficult time. There was a specific case back in 1967 I think it was, where the
people of Miami had to decide whether or not to consolidate their fire and police
departments into Metro, and they turned it down two to one. I think the will of the
people of this city is even stronger today than it was then, in favor of keeping
our police department and fire department.
Here is the point I wanted to bring up, what would actually happen if the
City of Miami consolidated its fire department with Metropolitan Dade County?
The City of Miami has 354,000 people, approximately, Metropolitan Dade County
1 million -five, of which 700,000 live outside the municipalities. We have a
fire department that has 700 officers,
Chief Hickman:---1.23 firemen for every thousand people,
Mayor Ferre:---if you look at what Metropolitan Dade County has, as I
recall looking, it is 4 or 5 times that, the number of people served. If you
will look at the number of square miles that are served by the fire department
in Metro vs. what is served by the city of Miami, what I am trying to say is
there is no question that the conclusion of it is, that we are getting a heck of
a fine service. How much is our budget this year, Chief? 13 million?
Chief Hickman:---13 million, sir, ----
Mayor Ferre: How much is the Metro budget, ----
Chief Hickman:--9 million sir,
Mayor Ferre: How many people do they have in their department?
Chief Hickman: Approximately 400.
Mayor Ferre: We have 700, they have 400, they serve 700,000 people, and
they have taken over some of the smaller cities, --
Mr. Andrews: 17 of them, ---
Mayor Ferre: So they may serve over 800,000, we are serving less than
half and have almost twice as many men, a budget of 13 million vs. their 9 million,
a lot less area to cover and a lot more men. I would like to put it another way.
Fifty -cents, out of every dollar, the people of Miami spend for their fire department,
goes for prevention. We sometimes unfairly get on the police department because the
police department is the most visable, the first contact between the City and
the citizens. But you know if we were to give the police department, if we were
to budget for them; out of every dollar they spend, 50 cents on prevention of crime,
we have a very different situation in this community. right now. So i.s isn't always
5
MAR 2.5 1976
fair to jump on the police dere- e:ee
what have you. in the first
and the second place they eon' eeve
does have where they spend 50c tl vver,
the result of alt of that in, if you
record the City of Mimi has, it FI
is no other city can claim te have.
as a result of that we are CDC 171f
classified as a c1as 1 city ee teeeei
Chief Hickman: Class T fi.
as you can get.
Mayor Ferre: There is no
highest classified city, we:h aec eaj,
reason is because of our recoee, Lt,
bility of the chief and all c-5
support and is due to the commiesaee
out of every dollar gees to eatteeeeee,
Now, the question in all ea tee:
is presently paylag for a first eeee
which is not that long ago,
years somethIng bLs happened
original inaeet, mei that
23 percent of tha totality of
fire department, which somebody aeee a
rate department. I didn't meae t
rate, there is no question
and capable and herd-workine,
budget constraints they have,
they do not haw,t s.s.me gw71::y
of Miami ate payillg •ic:,r the sc-.7-it.c •
the citizens of Miami do eot eeeea
without representation_ ft g:
----you the citizen of Mimi, e'rc. eaea
fire service which costs yee e
get service from the Metrope[e
service and the insurance ;atee eea
receive any services for thet. Noe
we have heard about the dupii te
community ever talk about duty
been a concerted effort, whiee 7Ia ea
of this community, or those wee vent
because there is a difference, te tee
use, the smoke they use to try aa
is a duplication of service.
we have always had a better ri
Standard and Poor, than
they were finally rated A
But if you will loot at the inteaaea
Dade county has paid and the 'Llc
will gurantee you that thee eie
Miami, so what I am trying te eaa
case and the people have reere teee
retain the quality servirea
different really from Coral eeelea,
thing. We want to maintain our
it. Now, if tnat is the ,
they be imposed upon ea he
that they receelee ne heee. ee
Metropolitan form of govk,:::,,•
the State and says we ore
that Metro want to aboliht
has a useful service and
are different 13, Metro
fair share of let le say roae eeeear
year after year. We arc not earee.
and does exactly the eamatry
so, to Tallahassee elle ompleae 17,-c
fair share of money fro:-4,
can see in. the progress of eeee
19 crime gone up 3% or
7:otaily responsible for that
ef budget the fire department
ie peeveation of a fite. Now
ete service, and look at the
eaee in ne United States. There
ehae this city has, and
":-:ted States that is
pa
;It
eety which is as high
SLaes, so we are the
;:eC department and the
e41C to the ability and cape -
duo to the administration
we l'und a budget where 50Q
yit: the City of Miami
the. people in 1967,
Nov, in the last 18
eeepetration of the
whIch comprise 22 to
for a Metropolitan
1.7'al I said it was a second
ae 7‘CE, eepertment were second
1-1:LS .,o.o7le are qualified
•ef• : T=veeese "nee 'necause of the
c',Iffarent problems,
Nov, yet the people
e' ';1_-oliten Dade county, that
eeae: aeo old story of taxation
:ea ze:ery cel= euelication of taxes
a first class
ancl Lre also paying to
.eaie: which is not a first class
• a vu yet you do not
ttr, a.T.ses, since for 18 years
v:17 <:4,oells't anybody in this
is, that there has
so-called power structure
eeeze structure of this community,
ae,ee e'r.e eieies and the argument they
the observers, is there
o feet for example, that
t.-nc; from efoody's and from
v. up eatil this year. I see
Eteeeard and Poor and Moody.
Last 5 years, that Metropolitan
Cy of Miami has paid, I
.e. a dtofnt Lower in the City of
•eety has a very strong
Crese:ves that they want to
:ezalt,ving. In a way we are no
Cal7)1es have said the same
,aeeae we get special services out
eate DE Miami, then why should
aerry the burden of something
h-it we are against
that when Metro goes up to
hr. that means in any way,
The fact: is, the State of Florida
• M...i.-LI:opolitan Dade County, but where
says we are not getting our
e. habitual beef of this communal
Lno t'hn Metropolitan turns around
nat. they go up,- and rightfully
e.,n Dade county does not get its
ee elaey cTh the same thing to us, and you
T,7re out of the 600 million dollars
MAR 2 5 1976
we are ;betting very little of that money. And yet we ate expected to pay the
taxes. We are expected to pay the burden. You know we turned over the Miami.
Library, we have turned over the seaport, airport, Jackson Memorial Hospital,
rightfully so. We have turned over the water and sewer department, and yet
we get chastised all the time for existing. it just happens to be the will
of the people of this community want the City of Miami to exist. They want
a two-tier form of government.
I want to publicly say one thing about that housing bond issue, you
know as important as it was to have 4 to 5 thousand living units built in the
next 5 years here, and theat was the primary thing the people voted on. That
was not the major victory of that election. You know what the major victory was?
The major victory was the proof once again, that the City of Miami can do certain
things that Metropolitan Dade County cannot do. And the fact is, that just two
and half years ago, the people of Metropolitan Dade County voted down a 10 million
dollar housing issue because they conclude in their wisdom that it was more
important to house monkeys and giraffes, and they voted for 10 million dollars
for a zoo and turned down people who needed housing, in the lower and middle
income brackets in this community. And an important victory in that housing
bond issue was not just 5 thousand families will get better housing, it was
once more the proof that there is a valid a good, sound economic and social
reasons for the City of Miami to continue to exist and prosper.
l CONTINUED NEXT PAGE
MAR 2 51976
And if that be the case end wn
the Spanish Armada; that we nay :le Yleet against
:17c th c.;-1ntity and the size
that the Spaniards had in that battle of the flexibility and the nim-
bleness and the quality of the city th&t we're able to accomplish things
that they're not able to do. 71/1 tliet we3 ehe real leFson of that Bond Issue
Election the other day. Now what we cio this s4tuetion and how do We
get this point acroSe? Is it uefel.r? ew? Well, in the first place let
Me point out to his eVer-lasting credit, ;::ink this is something that must
be said publicly and I have to say it, .eieee :Taee. Orr and Ray Goode recognizes
because it was indeed Jack Orr who was. :ee cne in Metropolitan Dade County
history to publicly say the cities :eave eeet eel jut. 7.)eef - they're right.
And Ray Goode came back and three yeeee e:‘, very first time after fourteen
years of existence, Metropolitan De& eeee-ee eee the ve':-y first time in that long
history openly publicly and in t'eeir eene izodthat they did indeed have
an obligation to the people, the tilat live in the cities of this
district, the first time it
the firefighters of Metropol-
eeen to the commission and bitterly
e :aok of salary increases
T-ee was a special series of
eee-lasting credit, and Ray Goode
that commission, "If you
Iiviu give these moneys to the
Fola,26.:: so that those that are
a..;ld that Wa.3 turned down by this
7e.e.3 hy Beverly Phillips and commis -
::,A; :L,ave not subscribed to
ee :7•ecold eontinue to exist because
cieies should be abolished and there
etropolitan Dade County. Now
• -niee an0 eentlemen, was the culmin-
-sced because at that point
7.,at this commission in
peopla who elected them
..eligently quietly and
Law. We have gone with our
le hr�31eaded, we have held
hr7 cone before the commission.
the very simple reason that
eeeece: eerseactives. I did not
iesee and we have done this
. haa cone on record - we
eeeteeeee a lawsuit. When this news
was known before the public T gee e ell. of yoe received a copy of it
from Commissioner Beverly Phillis sically she said. She said, shame
on you for causing the taxpayers the city and Metro a lot of ex-
penses in going out and doing batle What eon really ought to do
is follow the example of other cites ws:. your 'ire Department to Metro-
politan Dade County. Now eisete ee.A people of Miami have already
voted against that. So I think the fee ane. the issues were met and we
county. And they set up what bel!a!T;e
ever happened. When the isoue t:'-co ee.
itarl Dade County after a very seeicies
complained about not sufficient equeee.
and that became front page nowo
hearings and at those hearings )ay
is an honest straight forward caeae:c ,ee
increase(and I think it was $3,ro
Fire Department it should be L!:
the recipients of that service will pee •
Metropoiitar Dade County Comeieein eee
sioner Redford and the other whe
the theory that the City of :A.ie7.71
they are a part of the eeeep who
should be one mammoth bureaeezitie e -
they went against Rey Goode'e eevice.
ating point. That wes the dee .ee,H-
it was an added insult ec ieeee eee
my opinion woule have been eirer.ere_
if we did not seanel up and proeee,
without fanfare the procedere eeeseinnn
hats in our hands to the reae ee6eee- cee
joint work fiessios. Our Nanaeer, eee
have gone onoe, I have avidee ee]ee
I did not want to fan the erots
want this t'e;ore a polit-nal
as quietly as p)ssible. We eeve
have been turned down. Now ee .eeee
stand before the public toeay ie
that hopefully the end result cf Lilt
Housing Bond issue wasn't just te
The end result of this besides eeetjee jLe
result in my opinion is going tc •
go back 18 years and see really wkeJe eLee
what the relationehip. I hope that eee
this process and that we end up with
government in the very same waye
government. It is thn orfly juFt :'eecee
ment that I know of in the Western eeee.
has gotten off the track. T wool2 he7e.
as we proceed in this lawoui a!±:
right is on our side and we neve e
to one of us or twe or th,../
mendations as to really how eeee
be able to (30 to TorohLo anJ eeeee
works and perhaps come back ee:-
very deeply believes that oeo eee:ee
If one does not have e posi
that this is jest the firee seee
to correct the wroee that'e
this idea has co7ee, Lee eLeo eee
action. We've done it very
•
:H-i-.on of where we're at and I think
'4nat it seams just like that
eeee L!.eing units in this community.
feT the people cf Miami, the end
c.one to 'eve to re-examine and
eeeernmeet thie community wants and
of this will come a re -thinking of
eeeese to gocdness two tier form of
enee meeonec has a two tier form of
..fe'.oce4ve .tAo tiered form of govern-
.
C'urs was E. good oegining but it
:es .of the commission, that
.ec'ee going to win it because
we ta:;:e the opportunity perhaps
eeck with some specific recom-
eels injesuice. Perhaps we might
at ncw that government system
receumendations. I am one who
he:.x,self to be a critic,
e.eeejvc ee reeommend. I think
eeee we'ee ejeing to be taking to try
e I ehiek the time for
think it is a deliberate
eeefe:le eeeeeght it o'..:1t and 1 certainly
1
MAR 2 5 1976
4Ir
hope that as we proceed rom here that we're doing it with our eyes wide open and
fully cognizant not only of the implications directly to the city and to the citi-
zeha of Miami but cognizant of the implications that this has to the total commun-
ity of Dade County and I think that's what we have in our hands right now.
Mr. Plufl er. Mr. Mayor, may I make a few comments? Let me say because one thing
I think you didn't bring out nerds to be brought out; that this is only possible
t believe John, in the last two years. Am I correct?
Mr. Lloyd: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: In which not this City Commission or any other City Commission but
the State Legislature realizing that there was a problem cast ordinances and proper
procedures in which this method that we are now pursuing could be a reality. So
the legislature in their wisdom saw the need to eliminate the double taxation,
passed the appropriate legislation to give the cities a vehicle for relief. One
of the things, Mr. Mayor, that was of upper most concern in the meeting which you
just sent me to in Tampa of the Florida League of Cities that this vehicle which'
today is permissive if the cities wish to apply for this relief they can, that in
this upcoming legislature it be mandatory, not permissive but mandatory. One of
the things I think that we can hang our hat on, if you can use the terminology, is
in this morning's paper and I think it is brought home very clearly of just what
you were stating that sometimes an organization can become too large and we look
at this morning the fact that the auto inspection stations, Metropolitan Dade County
can't handle the entire gammut of auto inspection and they have now through this
morning's article gone and working with the cities to provide a needed service to
the public. Mr. Manager, what I have a question for you because we know that Mr.
Goode when he recommended this additional moneys for the fire was overridden by
his commission to tax the municipalities, in your letters of transmittal and re-
quest of him, was this answer solely from him or from his commission? Did he
bring all this to their attention? Did they act on it or is this a unilateral
action on his part?
Mr. Lloyd: Perhaps I might better answer that question than Mr. Andrews with your
permission, Mr. Mayor and Mr. Plummer, if you accept that, sir. I would say that
the letter is from the County Manager to the City Manager; he has signed it. Now
what prompted the action by him, I do not know but as Mr. Andrews has suggested,
it is 90% filled with legal opinions in there as to the situation. I don't think
we can answer whether it's a unilateral action on the part of the County Manager,
it seems to be because it's from him to the City Manager.
Mayor Ferre: Let me ;shed some light on that. I took it upon myself to call Ray
Goode and he told me what his postiion was which I have expressed here and he urged
me and the City to do as much as possible on the record to convince the Metropolitan
Board of the wisdom of doing this. Now whether that discussion was a private dis-
cussion between he and each one of. the 8 commissioners and the Mayor or whether it
was on the public record, I don't know but my understanding of it from Ray Goode
himself that he was turned down by all 9 of them, some with misgivings and concerns
but nevertheless, it was there and therefore, I can only conclude from that that
that was the will of the commission, not the will of the Manager.
Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, the point that I'm trying to bring out, even though
sometimes we wonder, the County Commission is still the boss of Mr. Ray Goode and
it is they that I feel that we should have the answer from on the record in public
meeting that they are in opposition or not in opposition. What I'm saying is that
I want to give them every opportunity to respond whether it be negatively or'posi-
tively and I want to establish that they have gone on record; that it is not the
action of the Manager but the action of his bosses, the commission.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, I'd like to respond in this sense that it is my opinion
that this City should proceed with this legal action, at any time that Mrs. Beverly
Phillips or any other of the Commissioners want to stop the action, it can be done
very simply by them calling a meeting or either reversing their position or calling
for a joint meeting which I, as Mayor, will tell you right now that I will call a
special meeting anytime that any member of the Metropolitan Dade County Commission
or the Mayor asks me to for the purpose of further discussion but in my opinion,
we cannot put this matter off any longer; it's time now to stand up.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, it was not my intent. My intent was that I didn't want
anyone to be able to turn around and say, well, we've never officially discussed
this at a meeting and for that reason, then the lawsuit is withdraw, it is deferred,
it is delayed. *I'm just asking to establish for the record, has this platter been
publicly, openly and or. the record presented to the County Coppnission whose author-
ity it is to crake such a decision.
MAR 251976
If 111
Mr. Lloyd: I can answer that bot`i' ioaaI I Y and factually. First, the Florida
Statutes, Mr. Commissioner, to which you referred which became effective January
1. 1975, specifically states that when a municipality creates a resolution identie
fying areas and presents that resolution to a Board of County Commissioners, the
County Commission shall within 90 days respond to that. Now some time after this
revolution was transmitted to the County Commission by our Clerk, there was a
^,pef.:1 �i meeting between this Commi.aaion and e members of the County COMMission
In that especial little chamber adjacent to the regular Commission Chamber fot Spec-
lal Meetiijs of this sort; the press was there. I believe, Father Gibson, I rem-
ember you being there, I think Commissioner....
Rev. Gibson: You were there and you cur;nt t.; tell them the other thing. I have
consistently complained that the Metro Cc 'ni ,:,.ion treats us as if we were step-
children. They were not there themselves. Tell t;,e whole thing and J. L., I want
to help answer you. I'm angry this moenire_ because we tried to avoid what Beverly
said. I got a copy of that letter and 3e-.e i.NJ are those are not playing fair With
us and what angers me every tine is when _roach them about these matters they
act as if they don't have to deal. Now L eveybody to know this morning I am
prepared to vote to go to court. It wee ee ..i-ieat that I asked you all to send
me to the Florida League. I left P1umeer ree, I heard all the discussion and
all these cities are saying the same darn .',i::: and there is a case from a man not
too far from where the former Senator i.ve ; deceased Senator(what's his name?).
You know the lacyer .who seemed to be the alai rii y in the League of Municipal Law
in this kind of matter.
Mr. Plummer: Burt Michaels?
Rev. Gibson: Whatever his name is. 7:;vE=rybody is saying the same thing and I don't
think we have to go around here and about this thing. Now either those
fellas on the county want to pay their far sbare or they don't want to pay it.
Mr. Plummer: I want an answer. I'm not 11,-,s•, ; cc':ing around and I'm not trying to
this officially been action
defer this item. I still am askino for answer. Has
taken by the County Commission? Yes or no.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor and members of i.%,:'. ...:ir.`r ssicr , to further assist Commis-
sioner Plummer, if the County Commission •coo no action, by taking no action they
have already expressed themselves. You .r e.ce;nber that you delegated me and the
City Attorney to appear at the Cour:ty Comm .ssior, on the eve of the 90 day period.
Mr. Lloyd: That was at the Budget Hearin .
Mr. Andrews: It was at the Budget Hearing.
Mr. Plummer: Are you telling me that they have officially taken action by no act-
ion?
Mr. Lloyd: Yes, sir...
Mr. Plummer: That's all I need. I'm trying to determine that answer.
Rev. Gibson: I just want to make sure. Let me :rake sure to substantiate it because
I think we got to either do it in the bucket today or get off it, one or the other.
Let me make sure. Mr. Andrews cannot commit this city without our agreement and
nor can Ray Goode commit the County and I don't plan to go the route of indirectly.
Ray Goode is no fool and you don't pay big salaries to foolish men; you and I know
that. I hope Mr. Andrews will never play me cheap because if I have to sign the
document and I'm going into court I'm goin^ to make dog -gone sure that I know what
I'm going into court for and that's where Ray Goode is; that's where everyone of
those commissioners is up there and what: irritates me is everytime we have a meet-
ing two or three of them will come. They l,eveer think our business is sufficiently
important that they all show up and brother, this is D-day for me. I am prepared
to offer the motion.
E. Fannato: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Ferre: In a moment, Ernie, 1 wi i t c,yr.ize you now but I think it's time
for the other members of the rcutmissior: ;:. y have questions or have any com-
ments...,
Mrs. Gordon; I don't have any at this ,;..>re:.r. I'd like to hear Mr. Fannoto,
Maurice, and then I'll make a comment.
Mayor Ferre: Well, do you have ally co.Tsn•.ec;:-:., or ouestiOnS?
6
MAR 2 51976
•
Mr. Reboso: Didn't you say any department heads were going to talk this horning?
Mayor Ferre: We have the police Chief here and Mr. Howard so would you like to
do that? Mr. Andrews?
Mr, Andrews: It's up to the commission. I can almost indicate to you what they
will tell you and it substantiates basically the letter that Was sent to Metropol'
itan Dade County which was very generous in its approach in snaking sure that We
didn't go too far in our accusations which have never been responded to. if you
wish to have them come up and verify for the record their eXpression in "relation
to that it's up to the commission if they wish to do so.
Mr: Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, let me say this; that I have had quite a few Conver-
sations with the attorney because it was my hope from the beginning that we would
go and establish the precedent on fire alone because in my estimation, the fire
situation is so clear cut that there is no question in my mind but Mr. Mayor,
there is no question in my mind but Mr. Mayor, there is question when it relates
to the Police Department and other departments because, in fact, it is not that
clear cut so I would like to hear from the Chief and Mr. Howard since the Attorney
tells me that we have to include these other areas in this lawsuit that we cannot
go on just the fire issue alone.
Mayor Ferre: Let's do that but let's make sure that we understand all of us why
this is so. The law evidently is very strict and very straight in the explanation
that if you put in a lawsuit and you only claim part of it, you do not have the
right subsequently to come in with another lawsuit to get the rest of it. In other
words, you've got to put it all together and therefore, unless we do it at this
time we will not have that opportunity in the future because the law seems to be
very straight on that. So that's why, and I completely agree that the strategy
of this was that we would take one simple case, which is the Fire Department and
try to win the day with that one and then make our point but evidently that is not
permissible.
Rev. Gibson: Let me ask this: You mean to tell me, are you telling me that if I'm
wrong in one instance and I find out later on I'm wrong that I don't have the right
to right that wrong?
Mr. Lloyd: No, that isn't what I said, Father Gibson.
Rev. Gibson: Okay, let me understand then.
Mr. Lloyd: You see, what we have done is, by your resolution of May 8, you identi-
fied 5 services. Now what I'm saying is that inasmuch as you have identified 5
services in which you believe a wrong has been done you must include those 5 ser-
vices in this particular lawsuit or in the future because you knew the wrong was,
you are precluded from bringing them up later. Now, if there are additional areas,
I have provided in or will provide in
as supplemental relief. We are going
if we find there are additional areas
we were just simply to go on the Fire
come back next year and say, well now
the other 4 areas we now want to file
areas...
our complaint. We'll ask for what is known
to ask for an accounting and then, of course,
why then we will add those. But you see, if
Department and then establish that and then
having before the first lawsuit identified
another lawsuit establish these additional
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Lloyd, what I think, I don't know about anybody else but Theodore
and the unfortunate thing is I've been to law school for one day. I thought we
were establishing a policy, a philosophy, a right. I learned in law school that
once that right was established if I had a right I could move from this step to
that step to the other step if the right is mine.
Mr. Lloyd: Exactly.
Rev. Gibson: Well, what's wrong them?
Mr. Lloyd: Well, that's what we are doing.
Rev. Gibson: Evidently that's not what I'm hearing you say.
Mr. Lloyd: No, you're not. You're hearing exactly the opposite,
Rev, Gibson: All right, let me hear. you.
1 � MAR 2 51976
41
Mt. Lloyd: I explained in
cetm. First you establish
of those rights by factual
one lawsuit to establish a
drove something.
4/1
the bt:gliinil j 1::. f_ni_s that this lawsuit was in two fas-
the right and r.i7n in the lawsuit you prove the extent
proof but you do it in this lawsuit. You don't file
right an -i then stop there and file another lawsuit to •
Rev. Gibson: So I could really >nderstand it, we want to establish the right that
the county is practicing double taxation.
Mr. Lloyd: That's right.
Rev. Gibson: Whether we do it on police, w:;::th'r we do it on Fire, whether we do
it on recreation as a layman...
Mr. Lloyd: No. May I interrupt you, F,Ithec You establish the right generally.
Rev. Gibson: Generally would be that ,' Q;1.:,Ish the right.
Mr. Lloyd: Right.
Rev. Gibson: And any time subsequently t could cote back and say that...
Mr. Lloyd: Father, just a minute. Tha is John Lloyd telling you this is what the
law is. I didn't make it this is wheat it:. You can't come back in subsequent
lawsuits where you have identified t,e,:;C!
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Lloyd. I thin it would .assist:: Father Gibson to clarify the point
that he is trying to make and possi:- y t iu r>_!st of us with regards to the five points.
If in fact, you win on one of those points :na not on the other three or if you win
on two and not on five, that is not gor;::; ;_o ardize our case?
Mr. Lloyd: No.
Mrs. Gordon: And that is a point_ flea:_ ...;t . concern is.
Rev. Gibson: Exactly.
Mr. Lloyd: Oh no, not at all.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok, fine, then we have n:o q,.Jar.rel with you on what the procedures are.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, but I think something very important has come out of all of this
and I want to express it now. You sec, it is one thing when you are dealing in the
private practice and there's damages and you have five things that you're going to
sue on for certain damages. But the purposes that you're suing to get double or
triple damages or whatever it is to get relief from court, we're not out to get any
money from Metro, we're out to prove a point. We're out to prove that the theory,
the practice that they have done for 15 years and modified three years ago but not
100% is wrong. If we prove it with one ergs, it's valid in the others. Why compli-
cate our life? Why complicate the procedings of the lawsuit of bringing in areas
that are difficult, complicated perhaps even where there might be counter arguments
of some validity? We have a very simple clear cut open -shut case with the Fire
Department. It is the clearest simplest case. It establishes the principle. You
know I'm not a lawyer, John, but I've seen so many times in lawsuits and between
lawyers and courts that you've got 10 azgulnents and you're right on seven of them
and you're wrong on three that your opposition is going to take the three that you
might be wrong on and try to prove that you're wrong and then say, you see everything
else that you're saying is just a lot of hooey and a for of malarkey and then it gets
all clouded and it becomes very legally technically complicated, with all due respects
to our friends in the press they don't always understand it right or maybe they under-
stand it right and write it right b.ut the guy who writes the headlines which is another
individual doesn't understand and he puts a headline that completely misleads what the
real - you know these people have to si pl fy things. Your arguments of three weeks
have to be condensed in 5 words on :�oadin:. Let me put it to you this way and I
just want to remind you, in on.- of oc.:r local newspaners when we won the Housing Bond
Issue, on the very same page or. the ic' t_ -,ar;.' corner the headline says, "Ford Blitzes
into Victory." and he won as you know i:; F1ct.i a by 53€. And down in the other story
there was a story that said, ;_y of Mia:ni..;,using Bond Issue Squeaks By" and we won
with 53%. Now i ask you what ti.o ..:i.1 foro ice between "Blitzing to Victory" at 53%
and "Squeaking In" by 53*. You sec, a :;utter of interpretation. Obviously the
press is supposed to be objective sr.. c_nbi.xsed and they are for the most part but
there is no such thing as atr 11:: t t-i nt3. and obviously it all depends on
where you are standing as to low you; ! ook something. Now, my point back to you
MAR 2 5 1976
s
is if we've got the opportunity to simplify, you see I always remember the story
(what's that story about Simple Simon? That you've got to keep your eye on the
doughnut and not on the hole. ...). Now the paint is this; that the doughnut is
the point that there is double taxation. If we can prove it why don't we take
the clearest easiest most definable case and just limit it to that? We're not
out for any money, we're not going to sue the county for tnohey or damages or any, -
thing like that. Let's go and prove our point and then after we've proven oir
point I think we can go back to the Metro Corrnission and say, "Now look, you
didn't want to give us relief - give us relief."
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor and members of the commission, I understand what you're
saying, Mr. Mayor, Prom my layman's point of view involving the law I would say
that we should not do that for this reason; that one of the areas that we will
be getting into as a result of this court case is the uncovery of additional in-
formation and I'm concerned in another area which I would even give you an example
that maybe has greater weight than the Fire and that is that the county has already
taken action to provide for 197 policemen to be added to the budget and set up the
first taxing district for services by levying a .4 mill to provide for those 197
officers in the unincorporated area and only the unincorporated area receives that
tax. Now I ask you then, what about the other 800 or so officers who are serving
in the unincorporated area which are charged against the general budget? Who de-
signed the formula or who decided that only .4 of a mill should take care of 197?
So we will get this kind of information through the total court process.
Mayor Fer:-e: You see, the type of arguments that they're going to give you, Paul,
is this: "Alright, ladies and gentlemen, here is the deficit(Ernie, I will not
recognize you at this time until the commission is finished with their discussion
and then at that point I will recognize you.) now Metropolitan Dade County is going
to say here is now much the welfare recipients of the community and 70% of the wel-
fare recipients live in the City of Miami. Now you take Jackson Memorial Hospital.
They're going to say if that's the case we're going to have to set a special taxing
district and we're going to charge the people of Miami to support Jackson Memorial
Hospital."
Mr. Andrews: Unfortunately though that does not track the constitutional provision
and the laws that have been adopted.
Mayor Ferre: I wanted you to say that.
Mr. Andrews: Adopted, because we recognize that there are regional services pro-
vided in which someone could complain that there's disparity in those services.
We've made no claim, we recognize this and we recognize the problem of writing reg-
ional services. We're not talking about regional services - we'r
municipal neighborhood services.
4 Mayor Ferre: And that's why under the same constitutional tracki
government for example has to spend a lot more money, for example,
than it does in Tallahassee. And by the same token it just happe
poor of Dade County live in the City of Miami and therefore, Metr
is obligated to spend more sums in Miami than they are in other a
want to make sure that we understand what the arguments that are
against us are and why they are invalid at this point.
Mr. Plummer: I think it should be said who gave the hospital to
gave the port to the county, who gave the airport to the county,
Department to the county, who gave the hydrant service to the co
Library System to the county... Let's just go right on down the
Mayor Ferre: Well I will then give you my opinion at this point.
'ought to proceed with the lawsuit. (2) I think we ought to be guided by the con-
clusions and the advice of both Mr. Lloyd and Mr. Andrews even th
reservations about it but if you feel strongly about it then I wo
your opinion on it. That's just my personal opinion.
Mr. Reboso: Mr. Mayor, why don't we go ahead and listen to the Chief
Mr. Howard for a few minutes?
Chief of Police, Garland Watkins: The observation made that you
police services as fine as you can fire service I think is a vali
feel that I can define the services or the functions that the county
the Police Department and perhaps explain to some degree the overl
apping
Mayor Ferre: Al]. right, Chief
?
e talking about
ng that the federal
in New York City
ns to be that the
opolitan Dade County
reas but 1 just
already being used
the county, who
who gave the Water
unty, who gave the
line.
(1) T think we
ough I have certain
uld go along with
of Police and
can't separate
d observation. 1
provides for
functions
MAR 2 5 1976
other Municipalities that the crime woe'.
:: i r '; in Dade County, the first one that comes
They provide all the services With the ex-
r; our own (identification technicians do that.
idenae the:-; is turned into the laboratory for
that we work in coordination with a-_,!_. L. „, ._: countyfr
but Coral Gabt.e;, or any
z,r ad across borders. The main funct-
ion that the county provides to all ci
to mind would be the crime laboratory.
cer)tit;5n of the crime scene search whi.c.
They ptocess the scene and then the es
analysis, Hate keeping, etc.
Mr. Plummer: Chief, right there I think that yea need to make a point that I'm aware
of that maybe the rest of the commission n' . The reason that that is done, and
as I know it the reason that we still retc`i,.i: C;'. ) ;: crime search at the scene is
that the City of Miami when we request .;n J. r: Ls usually within a matter of an
hour or two when our I.D. processes a sce;-rC, ;-,po:ea in c:'.^ county to 8 and 24
hour delay between the time that a county aait called for a scene search as
opposed to the city. Do you understand what :'- saying? In other words our I.D.
bureau comes within a matter of an hour cr t-;:a :a'r:.r'cc many days in the county request-
ing the same service it's the following day c::,r_rect, Chief?
Chief Watkins: Yes, I don't believe they aav:> `.'; capability even if...
Mr. Plummer: That's the point I'm trying
Chief Watkins: ...to process the scenes ..hEac we have.
Mr. plummer: Right, I'm trying to make :'.cc point .7e have a reason for retaining
our own I.D. bureau.
Chief Watkins: Exactly. The other arca 5ecause the expertise that the county has
in the area of bomb disposal, they do help trL: people and they do respond when
we have need to either identify or to eslec:ia_ly to dispose of a suspected package
or in some cases actual bombs themselves. Wa have our own investigators who do the
investigation but the actual disposal is pr-ov d e. by the county - the equipment and
the technicians do that. The other area. that's aacvided exclusive is the Harbor
Patrol or Marine Patrol. The county does , ~ 1ti.' :'.s. -that service not only to the City
of Miami but to some of the other cities Lhdt haae waterfronts. Another area that
is sometimes utilized is the choppers hut this, I think, would fall more in line
of a service that would be provided to a ci_t., ?T_ic7 the cities in turn provide an-
other service to the county. Our Canine Cffivers, for exersple, would respond to
the county for a need of canine or you had an emergency that our people would respond
to the county. So I don't think that one would be a major function that would be
provided by the county. There is some retention of records that perhaps could be
classified as a service to the city but I thtn'a basically this is the major funct-
ions. The rest of it if we have an inve.,zi<;.aiaa flat starts in the city that goes
into the county usually it is working in conjunction with the county. The county
has the authority, the legal right to investigate and to take action in the city
without the cooperation of the city but normally the county appraises us of what the
investigation is and we cooperate with it. This also is done is done with any other
cities that we work with - Coral Gables, any other municipality. So this is basic-
ally I think a description. Patrol, services ara not provided by the county. Invest-
igative service is not provided by the county to the city. Communications is not
provided by the county to the City of Miami.
Mr. Plummer: Chief, you heard Chief Hi:_krn;i, wet would be your appraisal of requests
for assistance, the county asking you, the Police Department to assist them as opposed
to them asking us to assist them and conversely? .Mould you say it is an even ratio
in the Police Department? Is it 3 to 1? Is it 4 to 1? For example, I know person-
ally that many many times where the county has for Key Biscayne the entire community
of Key Biscayne two cars at best, We arc- Constantly asked for assisting the county
on Key Biscayne. What would you say would be a fair ratio of the county asking us
for assistance as opposed to us asking them?
Chief Watkins: I don't have the exact breakdown as to the service but to be fair I
will would put it in this way - 1 feel tnat :•.a project at least as much if not more
assistance to the county than they ea) 7.a aa
have an emergency that needs to be .,andl
they would have to send one from •;re of
ahead and respond if ernerget;cie_, :::re :aor.:+_:z.:.
say that at least if not mere. t.r.y othe:-
Mrs. Gordon: Is there any further cu:.:`.:;l.inr:
- example on Dodge Island when we
c; provide a response because often
_lots to Dodge Island but we'll go
.•;:' e critical. So to be fair I'd
i,,.-::; that 1 might respond to?
the Chief?
Mr. Plummer: Let me ask •a point blank c ?:a_ t rj:. :=_nr_'. ? want to. So back and ask the
same of the Fire Chief, In your esti. atio ., knowing both budgets, both departments,
is there in inequity in your opinion at .h:La tfc,e to the taxpayers of the City of
Miami?
Irk
MAR 2 51976
1
Chief Watkins: Yes, living ih the city and paying taxes yea, Z think there is:
Mr, Plummer: Ok, thank you. Now I'd like to go back, Madame Vice -Mayor, and
get the same question of Chief Hickman. Chief, in your estihation„ , bid you
hear the question?
Chief b. A. Hickman: Yes, Commissioner, as a taxpayer in the City of Miami too
I agree with Chief Watkins. There is a large inequity. It's a minor but highly
significant point I want to point out to you that for 23 years we boti\rated,
trained and molded the Fire Chief of Metropolitan Dade County,
Mr. Plummer: You keep reminding him of that.
Rev, Gibson: Madame Vice -Mayor, it would appear to me that if we can agree to the
principle that we are being double taxed that the specifics, the specific cases
if the Manager and Mr. Lloyd come up with cases that are more dramatic or equally
as dramatic it seems to me as you go to court you put that as a part of it, But
why can't we adopt, establish, vote this morning that we're going to court? And
then the Mayor and maybe one or two of the commissioners to deal specifically with
the sphere that we're going to attack.
Mayor Ferre: Father, I think, you know and I argued the other side of it, but
I'm beginning to see something here and I just want to share this with you. Let
me be the devil's advocate because I really haven't finalized making up my mind
either on this. There are two reasons for that. First of all, if we only attack
one item which is the Fire Department that leaves us open to the criticism before
court where the opposition here would say, "Well you see here is what they're doing.
They're taking the one area where they have some semblance of being right," not
completely, we're going to argue that one and I think we can prove that they're
wrong, "but they're got a little bit of right but if you notice, Judge, what they've
done is they've completely ignored all the other areas. They're scared to get
into the general thing because they know they're going to be wrong and they're
going to be proven wrong." So that may be part of it. That's #1. Number 2 is the
legal problem. The legal problem is that if we win this one I'm not, I don't know
enough about the law what could happen here but especially if we were to lose we
would be precluded legally from ever going back to court and saying, "We want to
talk a little bit about the fact that we're not getting any service for this and
that and the other thing which are blatant abuses that are going on". And if we're
right let's have the courage of our conviction. Let's go ahead and say, "Look,
let the wisdom of the court rule on the whole thing and let's be forthright about
it and just stand up and face the whole issue from both the moral point of•view
and from a legal point of view". I don't know, have I expressed that?
Rev. Gibson: But Mr. Mayor, you and I don't differ. You and I don't differ! I
don't think I know all the areas - that's what Mr. Lloyd and Mr. Andrews are for;
that's what we pay them for and I'm not opposing to that. Let me say, I say that
if we establish the philosophy right now, the principle we're going into court we
then hold the staff responsible for bringing up the specific areas. That will be
your problem and then we move on. But if we go on trying to dig out this case and
that case then we would come in effective.
Mayor Ferre: Eyrnie Fannato.
Mr. Eyrnie Fannato: Honorable Mayor, members of the commission, Eyrnie Fannato is
my name, President of the Taxpayer's League, Miami and DAde County. I have argued
some of these questions before the City of Miami Beach Mayor and City Council. First
I want to say I want to commend you as Mayor and City Commission for taking action.
You are on firm grounds and I don't think, I'm fairly sure that any court of juris-
diction will ever uphold it. I'll start with the Fire Department. #1 How can they
tax the people in Dade County for a tax for the Fire Department when they don't
have the tools to implement the service? Let's see why. The entire Metro Fire De-
partment isn't any more than what the City of Miami
MAR Z 51976
Mayor Ferre: Ernie, don't argue our case.
Mr. Fannatto: No, no, I think the attorney should know these things
and the people should know. Let's see exactly what the effect is on the
taxpayers in the City of Miami.. If we didn't have an up-to-date fire department
here inthe City of Miami, and we zur.necl._c o..er to Metro, which they are trying to
gobble up our fire department and police, what would happen if we turned over
our fire department to Metro we wouldn't have the service and the tools to give
the homeowner in the City of Minrri fire eeetection. So you know what that means?
That means you would have more fires an.i you couldn't combat them, that is higher
insurance policies for homeowners in the City of Miami and similar you have with
traffic. So if any court of jurisdiction nears these reasonings, they are going
to say you don't have the tools, how can you do it. Let's talk about our police
department. I think when our police building is furnished I think we are going
to have a very much improved police department. Let's give them a chance. And
let's think a little bit, do you think the taxpayers in the City of Miami wanted
to spend all that money on the police department if we were going to turn it over
to Metro, and that is what is in their minds, taking over the fire and police
department, they don't have the know -haw, they don't have the tools for the fire
and in my estimation I think eventually cur police department, the new facilities
is going to be an outstanding police deparment and I look forward to that. I just
want to conclude by saying I want to repeat, you are on firm grounds to fight the
battle for the taxpayers and you are really fighting it for them because when
they have higher insurance policies in their homes, which they will have if
Metro gobbles up our, ---you have going to the Mayor and Commission,
and you are going to prevent that by fighting this case, I know you have an
able attorney,you are on firm grounds, you are doing the right thing, I commend
you for it.
Mr. Plummer: I think we should have Mr. Howard also on record. He is
the other department here. I want on the record Mr. Howard the same questions
I asked of the other heads, that you address yourself to.
Mr. Howard, Director of Parks: Under the decade of progress bond program
from the county, the city virtually receives nothing as far as parks and
recreation is concerned.
Mayor Ferre:Don't say the City, the citizens of Miami, because there
is a difference. We don't want any for the City, we want it for the people.
Mr. Howard: The only area where money is going into, is of a passive nature
is into Vizcaya in the City of Miami. We don't ask the County for any assistance
as neighborhood parks. In areas regional in concept where we could receive
assistance from the County such as the new, possible stadium at Curtis Park
Watson Island and the rest of them, where we need additional money, this is
an area where the county could help. On our fields, tracks, ball fields, foot ball
fields, we find about 40% of the people participating are from the county, it
is not only for the citizens of Miami, but there are no contributions made under
the bond program , to any regional facility in the City.
Mr. Plummer: I ask the same question of you, in your opinion, is there
any inequity to the citizens of the c:`ty of Miami as it presently exists in
taxation.
Mr. Howard: Yes, there is.
Mrs, Gordon: I would personally fee. :hat probably in the parks department
there is more inequity than in any other, for one thing the services we render
and the classes we have, and people are cor,:.ins from all over, there are such
fine programs,I have had calls fr.+osn pctopie or Miami Teach complaining because
we are starting to charge a fee to out -of -city residents. You can imagine how
much they depend upon the City of Mi.anll parks department. The county is not
furnishing the services that we are.
Mayor Ferre; I might meat -.or, ::ro 4he record, Ernie, you have mentioned
MAR 2 5 1976
this hefore, that that 600 million dollars is going to be issued in
the decade of progress, we are going to pay 202 of that, and we ought to
get 20Z of the benefits. I am talking we, the citizens, clot the City, the
citizens of Miami, also citizens of Dade County, should get our fait share
of these funds. That is all we want. All we want is justice,
Mr. Fannatto: You are 100% right on that and I am just going to make
a little statement here. I think the people are dissatisfied with the way
Metro is distributing the money, and I hate to say this at this time, and
I think there is going to be a shake-up in a lot of commissions at the next
commission meeting and bear out exactly what'you are saying.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor I move that the City Attorney be instructed to
proceed posthaste after the necessary survey, research to go into court
and argue our case.
Mr. Reboso: I second the motion.
Mr. Plummer: Father, are you indicating more than just the fire area?
Rev. Gibson: My motion carries with it the necessary areas, that is
what we pay Mr. Lloyd and Mr. Andrews for.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor there is no question that, in my estimation
that there is a tremendous inequity. It had been my hope that we could proceed
in the one area that was so clear cut, but since that is not the case and the
motion is to proceed I will vote yes.
Mrs. Gordon; Yes, with the motion, and state that the City is courageous
and is moving forward in a case that will be precedent setting.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Gibson who
moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 76-291
A MOTION RATIFYING AND CONFIRMING RESOLUTION NO. 76-126,
ADOPTED JANUARY 22, 1976, AUTHORIZING LITIGATION WITH DADE
COUNTY ON THE QUESTION OF DOUBLE TAXATION
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Reboso, the motion was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Rose Gordon
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
Mayor Ferre: I apologize for the delay, but we had a subject before us
in my 6 years of service to the City, I think it was the single most important
issue that has ever been discussed before this Commission, and I apologize
for the long delay. I hope you recognize the importance of the issue.
Mr. Lloyd: Mr. Mayor, legally what you have done here today is ratified
and confirmed, your previous motions. So I will proceed according to the dictates
of what you have done today and according to the previous motion, and
Mayor Ferre: Correct, ----
Mr. Lloyd: ---and we will file the action early next week.
ADJOURNMENT: The Special. Meeting was adjourned at 10:00 o'clock A.M.
H,D,SOUTERN,CITY CLERK
RALPH G. ONGIE, ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
MAURICE A FERRE
MA YOR
MAR 2 51976