HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1976-03-17 Minutes•
CITY OF MiAMi
COMMISSION
MINUTES
OF MEETING HELD ON
March 27, 1976
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
CITY HALL
WilM
MINUTES OF WORKSHOP SESSION OF 'TIHE
CITY CO ISSION-CIVIL SERVICE BOARD
Jn'elc******* ******
On the 17th day of March, 1976, the City Commission of Miami, Florida
met at its regular meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive,
Miami, Florida iu workshop session with Civil Service Board concerning
police testing.
The meeting meeting was called to order at 9:35 o'clock A.M. by Mayor
Ferre with following members of the City Commission present:
1
Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Vice -Mayor Rose Gordon 1
Mayor Maurice Ferre. I
Absent: Mr. Plummer and Rev. Gibson.
The following members of the Civil Service Board were present:
Mr. Huttoe
Ms. Skubish
Mr. Argues,
Mr. Printz.
An invocation was delivered by Mr. Robert Paulk, Executive Secretary of the
Civil Service Board.
Mayor Ferre led in the pledge of allegiance to the flag.
Mayor. Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen this is a joint meeting of the City
of Miami Commission and the Civil Service Board. It is a work session, it
is not an official commission meeting, even though there is a majority and
under our charter and rules and regulations, whenever the majority of us meet,
we must have our City Attorney, and the Clerk's office represented. Therefore
even though it does not have official status, it is a semi-official meeting.
So at this time I'll recognize Mr. Bob Peulk, and after him Mr. Andrews
can make whatever comments he wants to make then we will get going.
Mr. Beb Paulk: Thank you Mr. Mayor. As a result of the most recent
examination for police officer, the results having been submitted to the
Civil Service Board, on last Tuesday, a week ago, some serious questions
occured. As a result of some apprehension on the part of members of the
community and members of the Commission, members of the administration of
the City of. Miami, members of the Civil Service Board, we felt it most desirable
to prevail upon the University of Chicago to come in for a workshop to have
an exchange of. information. No. 1 they can present to us, or the Commission
and the Civil Service Board a little more in detail as to the rationale behind
the preparation of the examination, the rationale or criterion used within which
the various people who participated in the examination were determined either
to be on that register or not on that register. It is important that we have
this exchange of information, so that we can understand the work that the
University of Chicago has undertaken, at the request of the City of Miami to
help bring into the employment of the city of Miami v. ry capable :end qualified
individuals to become police officers within this community, And 1)r. David Saunders
is here today representing t_1i University of Chicago and was heavily :involved in
the crinter.ion used in which the examiniation was scored and he is going to give
all of us some information as to the bassi:; of the decisions that this criterion
on
was established and although It isn't anticipated that any formal action occur
here today, It is designed to exchange information and pose questions where
questions have evolved as result of this recent examination,
Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre; r have received a ser.i.es of letter and telegrams and telephone
calls in my office. It is 'eery important that the administration and Mr, Paulk
get copies of a1.1 these correspondence, ---have you done that? and all members of
the commission
(Unidentified person) :----it was only compiled yesterday,
Mayor Ferret As soon as it is compiled, i want you to photostat it: all
and send it on, so everybody,--1 imagine a lot of people here in the audience
ate individuals who took the test and probably didn't pass it. Would you raise
your hand, that wern't successful on this test? All right, thank you very much.
How many of you arc public service aides? Would you raise you hands? Vou are
P,A.S.'s that did not pass. How many of you were in the Tricultural Program?
How many were not in the Tricultural Program and took the exam, and did not
make it? One, just one? The rest of you were involved in the Tricultural Program?
Okay. The Tricultural program was not limited to just Spanish speaking and
Blacks. It was open really to everybody who wanted to take advantage of it.
Mr. Andrews would you,
Mr. Andrews: Without diverting the City Commission and the Civil Service
Board from the specific area that you are going to discuss, there is another
area that concerns me, and that is the impression that the public is receiving
through the news media as to the expenditure of funds to carry out the entire
program. There was an article that appeared in the paper yesterday which indicates
that $500,000. was spent and only 17 people would be affected and that article
was based on the fact that there are currently 17 vacancies, 9 in the police
department and 8 in the fire department. What I at least would like the record
to reflect, and those who are here in the audience, to understand, is that this
process the City of Miami is going through represents a first—time process of
any city in the United States. No other city in the country is doing that which
we are accomplishing here in the City of Miami. The University of Chicago is
involved in a process of designing examinations as one matter, and secondly
and perhaps more important than the first, is going through a process of validating
that examination process. I want to reemphasize that there is not other city in the
United States that is going through this exact process. The best way I can explain
this expenditure of funds, is that as many automobiles as this country produces
in the United States, General Motors undoubtedly will spend 15 to 18 million
dollars developing proto types of the automobiles they hope to produce for
1977. After they developed that proto type, then the automobiles, at least
the cost to them is somewhere in the vicinity of $3000.00. There process is
going on in the City of Miami. Expense is heavy to begin with, to establish
the kind of examination process that we need in the City to make sure that our
police examinations are job related. Once that process has been established,
then the cost as it relates to the individual applicants will begin to drop
dramatically because we will be using that process over and over again with
some refinements from year to year. The bulk of the work will all have been
completed through this initial three—year process that the University of
Chicago is carrying us through. I want to emphasize that at least in my judgement
it is unfair the way the press has treated the City of Miami in singling out
certain dramatic aspects of this in presenting it in the press.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Chairman of the Civil Service, do you want to say
anything?
Mr. Huttoe: No, sir I think we ought to get on with the meat of it.
Mayor Ferre: All right, will t:he representatives of the University of
Chicago please come forward?
Mr. Andrews: I.)r.. Saunders,---- I)r. Saunders asks if you all have a copy
of the m.rmorr dnm that transmitted yesterday to the Commission. 1f you do not,
we have extra conies.
Mayor Terre: Members of the press might want that. 1f you vant a copy
of the memorandum, they are over hare::.
I)r. David. Saunders: Mr. Mayor, members of the City Commission, and
Civ:il. Service Comrtission,tlt:is microphone says it is on, 1 hope :it is, because
the natural tendency :is to speak quietly. What I would 1 ike to do is .introduce
myself, I am David Saunders, T work for the industrial Relations Center of the
University of Chicago and we are the people who have taken the responsibility
of trying to construct for the City of Miami, both selection procedure's at the
entrance levelfor police officers and we are also involved with you in develop—
ing promotion features within the police department, These are two sets of
activities and certainly an important part- of the funds we have received have
actually gone into the promotional area,So there is another source of anibignity
2
in the stories,
Mayor Ferret Excuse the interruption, Doctor. Peal, do you have a copy
---it is hard to follow this memo unless you have a copy of my memorandum
with questions, 1)o you have a copy of that?
Mr. Andrews: We will have it in a couple of minutes.
Mayor Terre: A lot of these things refer to my memo.
I)r. Saunders: I will he primarily interested in referring, I think it is
to the last page of Mr. Andrews: memo where there is a table, because I have
prepared my own table which is comparable to that but there hasn't been the
possibility to reproduce my version of it. The numbers are substantially the
same.
What I would like to do , is to begin by reviewing with you the process
whereby we tried to arrive at a validated selection procedure for police
officers, just as it might be for any other kind of position. We are operating
fundamentally under a set of guidelines that are formulated by the Equal Employ-
ment Opportunity Commission and which guidelines have been in force in varying
versions for several years now. These guidelines inform us as to the procedures
we should follow and the standards we should meet in order to achieve a properly
validated testing procedure. The guidelines do not assert that a particular
outcome should be achieved but they do tell us how to go about the process and
what kinds of evidence is appropriate for us to consider. In order to pursue
these guidelines, the first step we entered into with the City and with the
police department was what is called the job analysis, and people from our
operation down here in the summer of 1974, spring and summer, looking at the
job of police officer as it exists here in the city of Miami, reviewing with
people doing that job, what it entails, --riding around with them, talking with
them, asking searching questions to find out what this job is about. This is
the step that we had gone through before in other similar studies in other
places and we were not surprised when the result of this overalljob analysis
step was an indication that the job, at least of the police officer in the
city of Miami is very similar to that job as it might be found in other com-
munities in this country.
The second major step that is required in a validation study is the try -out
of testing procedures. The tryout is designed to establish empirically that
when certain scores are achieved on testing instruments they can be interpreted
as indicating a high probability or if the scores are low, a low probability
of success on the job. Basically the way this is carried out is by going to
individuals who are incumbents in the job, and asking them to complete the
testing instruments and then analyzing those data to determine what kinds of
patterns of response on the test are characteristic of those individuals who
are doing the job and doing the job most effectively. We have been through
that step also with the City of Miami on the basis of data collected within
the police department this past December. We collected data at that time from
383 incumbents in the police department. Those data have been analyzed and form
an important part of the basis for the test battery which has just been applied.
AIso related to this validation is the collection of what we call criterion
data. 1•;e have been through this with the police department here. We have gone
through the entire department by what we call a comparison rating procedure
in which every :indi.vidual. :in the department in every rank up to the levelof
captain, was potentially rated by as many other persons in the department of
the same or higher rank, who felt capable of making appropriate judgements about
each individual. These data have been analyzed, and those give us one of the bases
we have for knowing which individtt.i1.:; in the departmentit is most appropriate to
consider as successful members of the department. You are not :saying that everyone
in the department is exactly equal, although obviously :incumbents who are doing
a job are probably doing; it better than others who are not doing it, but we have
a basis derived from within t:he department for recognizing those individuals who
are considered more outstanding nud for whom it would preferable to achieve sour
kind of a match in the Hiring process.
We have also gone into departmentalrecords to establish other areas of
criterion performance, other aspects that can he documented with respect to
individuals as to flow well they are doing the job that they are supposed to be
doing. These data have allcontributed to the analysis on which we are not relying
to c.;tablieh the validity of the test battery which was just: administered,
Now, back in 1975, before this entire process was complete, we were called
upon to administer a recruit battery in order that recr.uitr^ent could take place
a5
within the City of Miami for positions that existed in the department. And
as a result of the announcement of an examination that was scheduled for
April of 1975, according to figures 1 have, there were 413 valid applications.
When the date for testing rolled around, 278 actually appeared and took a
battery of tests which we determined as our best approximation of an appro-
priate test battery. We scored those tests by a process which I will come back
to and reported a register containing 110 names. That register was duly certified
by the Civil Service Commission and became the basis, the primary source for
selecting recruits into the department for the period of time from last April
up to the present. Following the reporting of this register, we had screened
out a number of individuals as a result of the testing. Some had screened them-
selves out by not even appearing, but following this declaration shall we say
of the register, further steps in screening took place and as of today there
are actually by my count 51 survivors who are in the job of police officer or
are still under consideration for that job. I am counting as survivors 5
individuals who are still being screened. Along the way then, some 60 or so
individuals from that register have fallen by the wayside. Some of these because
of medical exams, some because of background check, some because it took so long
to get around to them they found some other employment, a couple on account of
physical agility, and a few who actually became employed but who have fallen out
of the department since their actual employment. So even though, we produced a
register with 110 names on it, out of 278 tested, and out of 413 applications
we are down to 51 who are still in the system. This was on the basis of test
battery which was not at that time a validated test battery but which did
represent our best judgement as to what a validated battery might include.
From an ethnic point of view, the results of that can be broken down. It
is, I think most important here to look at the bottom line. Of those 51 individuals
who are still within the system I count 9 white males, 9 black males, 23 Latin
males, and 10 females. 1 am using those categories since those are the categories
of the most recent consent decree. Those numbers are not very far out of proportion
with the proportions you would find in the community of Miami as a whole. To that
extent, I think that even our approximate selection procedure of last year, was
in keeping with the consent decree which at that time was yet to be even proposed.
However, comes 1976. The register from from last year is approaching ex-
haustion, it is necessary to mount another recruit examination, this is announced
and scheduled for January of 1976. By January of 1976 we can see that we will
be able to complete our preliminary validation process based on the current
testing of incumbents, we can see what tests we would recommend. 0f the 8 tests
that are involved, actually 2 substitutions were made between 1975.and 1976.
based on the results that we could see emerging. For 1976 the figures that I have
indicate there were something like 806 valid applications filed with Civil Service.
That is not quite twice the number of a year before. When it came time for the
testing, 233 of these did not show, 573 were tested. And that 573 is the number
we have been hearing lately . As a result of the test process, which was elaborated
from last year, and I'Ll come back to this, 306 names appear on a register, and
that register was the one presented to the Civil Service Board in this room a
week ago. That register has I believe, been officially certified but at this
point we have no further experience with Lt. Presumably these are individuals
who will go into a further screening process.
Now, there is some concern and understandably so, about the fact that
the ratio of 106 out of 573 is obviously smaller than the ratio of 110 out
of 278. This is the ratio of the people on the register to people taking the
test in each of these two successive administrations. There is one primary
reason for this difference. There ii;iy be a lot of ether comments that may
be i;ide but there is essentially one primary reason for this difference. As
a resultof out experience with the register a year nee, if wa made no change
in the pr'rfce:;::,, we would be able to anticipate something more than a ',AZ dropout
rate n:; a result of the various additional screening steps. lio..iever as n result
of our experience from last year, and as a result of being able to relate that
experience with a series of individuals who dropped out with their performance
on various testy; that we had for t1u it. We feel we are now in a position to
predict through the tests who is more likely to drop out for the screening
process and who is not so likely to drop out, Consequently, although the percent-
age that 106 reepresents of 573, is only half the percentage that 110 is out of
278. I.t is our expectation that when the further screening process is carried
forward that the attrition in the new register will be much less. When we get
down to t:lre bottom line, the number who survive when this new register is
exhausted, will be much more in proportion to thee original size of the group,
As a byproduct perhaps or maybe an important product of the testing process,
we will have succeeded in recognizing at: the outset those individuals who
represented the greatest risk if they were to be placed on the register at
this time, and at the same time, made mote efficient, the further screening
process and allowed the individuals who were involved the advantage of being
told at an earlier point where they stood in relation to this process.
Now, in order to implement this change and describe this change to you,
I am going to have to go insole the testing process for a few minutes. The
test as it appeared to each applicant is a battery consisting of eight different
tests. Each of these eight tests has a different name on the cover, a different
set of instructions, a different time limit,if there is a time limit, a different
kind of item or question inside of it, a different method of scoring, a different
key, and etc. From the point of view of the applicant, there are eight different
tests. For purposes of scoring and for purposes of discussion, I am going to
talk about them as if there were three kinds of tests in the battery. One kind
of test would be a test designed to assess an applicants academic qualifications.
Mayor Ferret Doctor, let me interrupt you. AS you go through this procedure,
would you tell us if you could, what the percentage of failure was in each one
of these categories, For example, you have told us in the academic, 75% of those
who took the test passed. WE know we have a total passing of 19%, of failure, 81%.
But of those who took the academic test, we know that 25% passed the rest of
battery of test, so -------
Dr. Saunders: I intend to bring these numbers in. The battery consists of
eight tests from the point of view of the applicant. Of these I would characterize
two as being primarily oriented toward the academic area. Certainly so far as
our scoring process is concerned, these two are separated from the other six and
we generate a score from these two which I will refer to as an academic screen.
There is a magic number which represents a passing score, and I can say that if
we were to apply that academic screen as a sole criterion for passing and failing
or if we were to apply it first in a series of screens then the figure that you
have heard, 25% not passing, 75Z passing would apply. 0r putting it in numbers
in relation to the current register, out of 573 taking the test, 137 would not
pass the academic screen.
The primary justification for the academic screen, lies in the fact that
the procedure for becoming a police officer, not only here in Miami but across
the country, involves a period of initial training. This training is provided
in an academic setting and if an individual is unable to proceed through this
phase, there is no way they can become a member of the department, or remain
a member of the department if you insist they have already been hired. So it
becomes essential to insure that an individual who is placed on the register
has a high probability of succeeding in this phase of their subsequent exper—
ience as part of the job.
From the point of view of validity, prediction of academic potential
is so;ething that psychologists have know how to do for 70 years. They do
a pretty good job of it. Consequently I have no concerns in this area concerning
the actual validity of the instruments and the tests that are being applied. I
do feel that in setting n passing score that passes 75Z and fails only 25%
that the passing score that this lends Ln, is a fairly low requirement. It is
not a high hurdle from the point of view of an academic screen.
The remaining six tests that exists in the battery from the point of view
of the appli.caut are allin the area of personality, te:npern!en1, 1)nchground and
etc. and they can each be scored in two different ways. l:aoh of them can he
scored from the point of view of ::orle areas and facets of content that they
represent. There may be questions that have to do with say, gonera1 health.
0r there may be questions that have to do with qu.eility of sociability. Or there
may be questions that have to do with .r particular response style that nay be
characteristic of someone. Each of these tests has one or more, and typically
more, scores that can be extracted from it. These so ores, 1 would refer to as
content scores, and they contribute with certain w-riting to what I will refer
to as a t'ernperine.nt screen, ]: bring this one up next because it is comparable
to the process that was used a year ago. In 1975 the scoring process consisted
of the successive application of an academic screen and then a temper:^ent screen.
As a result as of the academic screen, a year ago, 257. were screened and then
as a resultof the temperrnent screen, 50% remaining were screened, leading to
the final result of 3 out of 8 being on the register, So tit` basic process in
0.)
1976 also contained an academic screen and a tempermene screen.
However what is new in 1976.is what 1 will refer to as a validity
screen. This is also derived from the saline iestru::1E u1.i as provide the
ingredients for the tetnperineut screen. But. it is derived in quite a different
way and has quite a different meaning. Prom the point of view of the temperment
screen and the content scores, is the case that there are such things as right
and wrong answers from the point of view of scoring well on the battery. That is
to say from the point of view of the content scores, it is the case that certain
answers will match more closely the ideal we have in the back of our head as to
what comprises a successful police officer.
From the point of view of the validity screen, there is no such thing as
a right or wrong answer. The validity screen is looking at patterns of response
and it is looking for indications that the individual taking the tests is respond-
ing to them according to the directions and in the spirit in which they are intended
to be taken. In other words to caricature the other extreme, we can imagine an
individual who really doesn't want to take the test. One way not to take the test
is not to appear. Bet obviously if one fails to appear and even goes so far as
to make marks on an answer sheet, they are not going to appear on a register.
But there are other ways in which an individual who doesn't want to take a test
can appear, go through the motions, make marks on an answer sheet, and not really
take the test, yet not really reveal anything about themselves. And what we are
looking at in this validity screen is measures that we can derive from the answer
sheets that indicate whether or not an individual is using this kind of a test
taking strategy or not. There are no such things as right or wrong answers when
this kind of thing is being evaluated . So we are looking at a totally different
facte of information concerning each individual's performance on the tests. And
what was rather striking to us when we first encountered it in our data, was the
fact that individuals who fail to survive from last year's register, tend to be
the same individuals as individuals whose test -taking strategy is a strategy
of don't really do the job of taking the test.
Now, you want some numbers to go with this. And what I have to report
to you, is going to sound somewhat shocking. But maybe I should preface the
numbers with a remark that indicates that there is an ambiguity here in any set
of numbers that I might report. WE are talking now about a process for 1976 that
involves three different screens, an academic screen, a validity screen, and
a temperrent screen, and 'e are going as the model for the total scoring process,
is going to be to require an individual to pass all three. If we are requiring
him to pass all three, it really doesn't matter in what order we require him to
do that, and we could say that they are going to be applied in the order I just
indicated or we could say they are going to be applied in a reverse order, or in
some other order. There are 6 different orders we could specify here, and the
numbers that will be attributed to failure on these different screens will depend
very sharply on which one we put first and which one we put last. The numbers
that we attribute to failing or not passing on a particular screen will depend
rather sharply on the sequence in which we imagine that these screens are being
considered, the numbers will. Now if we look at percentages they won't vary that
wildly. But if fur instance, we have already indicated that 137 out of 573 did
not pass the academic screen, and I was careful to state when I gave that figure
that that is, if we consider that that is the first screen, that we applied, ---if
we snake that the second screen, then some of the 137 who failed the academic
screen, will already have failed whatever other screen we put ahead of. it. And
depending on the sequence in which we consider these things, 1 don't want to
open this up to too much game playing, but we can make the numbers look quite
different depending on the sequence in which we present thcm. And consequently,
1 want to caution us against being too shoe eel, by the numbers :In the sequence
in which 1: am going to present them.
1 nin going to present them on the basis that ouL of 573 teeted in 1976
group, 'tf we set tite academic screen a:; the first hurdle, which is comparable
to the way we did it last year, then 137 did not pass and the balance, whatever
that is, would ease that hurdle. 1 ant going to save the temperament screen for third,
in order to keep that most comparable with last year and place the validity screen
in second. P.laciue the validity ecr.ein second, we have 264 who did not pass it,
and that represents not quite half of the originalgroup and it represents over
half of the group that remained after the first screen.
Mayor Ferro; Repeat that last sentence again.
Dr. Saunders; That represents in ,absolute numbers, that is not quite half '
of the original group, and that is over half: of the group that passed the academic
of l'oi!-ilti. rf 0_ II„: 0.1:"" 7 if j t
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Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Dr. Saunders: Now having placed t:he validity screen in No. 2, then
the temperment screen would become No. 3, and we have only 66 ,ndd:itional
iron -passes that would have to be attributed to the temperment screen if
we put it in third place.
Mayor Ferre: Tell me again.
Dr. Saunders: 66,-
Mayor Ferre: --66 non -passing. Is that after a process of elimination
or is that of the total 572?
•
Dr. Saunders: This is out of the total 573. The arithmetic I have
here starts with 573, it eliminates 137 with the academic screen, it eliminates
264 more on the validity screen, then eliminates 66 more on the temperment screen
and if you subtract those numbers from 573, you should come out, I hope with 106.
Mayor Ferre: Then what you are saying, is you are not giving us exact figures
you are eliminating one after the other. If I were to ask you for example how many
people failed the temperment screen out of the 573, it is not 66, it is a lot more
than that.
Dr. Saunders: If that were put in first place it would be a lot more than that.
Mayor Ferre: Do you have those figures?
Dr. Saunders: I have those figures over here in the corner, yes.
Mayor Ferre: I have a simple question, out of 573 tested how many failed
temperment screen.
Dr. Saunders: I could estimate without looking that it would be about
one-third of the original group.
Mayor Ferre: How about the validity?
Dr. Saunders: And on the validity one, if that were placed first, I think
it would fail about 60% of the original group.
Mayor Ferre; So the big failure was not the tempermental testing but
rather the validity failure.
Dr. Saunders: That would be a fair conclusion.
Mayor Ferro: What exactly is a validity screen? And what are the determining
factors on validity?
Dr. Saunders: I am going to have t-o tread a very thin line here, I am
afraid between answering that question responsibly and giving away so ranch
that I can't use the screen again.
Mayor Ferre: In generalities. This is not temperment, so I assume it
is not psychological in nature. These are actual ,-----
Dr, Saunders;: 1t can arise from a number of f.a:t:ors;, and if we look
across the way this; iuipactu an'differen1 groups within a testing situation,
we liillsee that :it has impacted differentially on diCfercrit groups, 1: and sure
these are• numbers th:it: we will have an interest in examining in a minute. But
let MO review the way in which 1. described 1t a moment ago. At the extreme, an
indivi.dualcan respond to a test: in such n way as to tell. a Lester nothing, One
very simple way to do that is to respond without readin the questions. Or to
respond without trying to understand the questions, or to respond with some
intent to put a mosaic of responses on art answer sheet that would bear no relationship
to the questions. And if one felt the overall examination process had no intrinsic
validity .in the first place, one could easily feel that this kind of strategy
had just as good chance of success for an individual as doing anything else,
at the seine time sharing much less risk of revealing anything about oneself
`�l
in the event that these answer sheets h =.came improperly d taplayed.
Mayor Ferre: Doctor where I. thinkmy questions are heading :in this
particular area, is this FI subjective decision making process by those
of you correcting the test or is there is a scientific basis, is there an
actual basis that a computer can run out or do on passing and failing or
is there a human element in the testing process.
Dr. Saunders: There is absolutely no human element in it. It is computable
it is clone by computer, it is the only feasible way to do it, because it
depends upon an examination of very complex patterns.
Mayor Ferret So this is not a question of a tester sitting down and
subjectively saying well, --this person says he would rather be an airline
pilot rather than a stewardess, that means that he obviously doesn't have
the validity to be a policeman or something like that.
Dr. Saunders: I can say that the characteristic of the formula, which
is used to score this, is such that any answer could be a right answer, or
it could be a wrong answer depending on the context of, and pattern of other
answers that it comes with.
Mayor Ferre: In other words, it isn't an answer of and by itself. It
is taken in relationship to a series, a battery of answers and they are all
weighed in a computerized form as to what the implications are of all those
questions.
Dr. Saunders: That is correct. Perhaps it would he of interest to look
across the different groups that we can recognize and see how these different
screens have reacted, or how the different groups have reacted, if you want to
put :it that way, to the different parts of the battery that we have just
recognized. At this point I am going to produce some numbers which are very
similar to the numbers on the last page of Mr. Andrews' memorandum. They
differ by one or two, sometimes because the information that different
people have had regarding ethinc group assignment has not always been 100%
in agreement in every individual case. This doesn't bother me particularly
because I think we are looking for the big picture and the numbers are really
quite close together. And I think also it reinforces the fact that as we have
gone about what we have been doing, we have not felt that we really had to have
this information in such an accurate form that we were going to use it as any
part of our scoring process, and our scoring process is absolutely the same
regardless of the ethnic identity of any individual.----573 breaks down as
77 white males, 125 black males, 207 Lat:in males, 356 females. Again I am using
those categories because those are the ones in the new consent decree. If we
follow down what happened to these groups in turn, we will find that out of
77 white males, 6 fail on the academic screen, 46 fail on the validity screen,
10 fail on the temperrlent screen, and 15 remain. This is taking the screens
in the order in which I was using them a minute ago. By comparison with other
groups, we will see that they are roughly typical in the way the different
screens 1mve impacted on the white male group. If we follow down the black group,
and this is black males, the 1.25, we find that 57 were failed on the academic
screen, 51 on the validity screen, 8 on the tetnperment screen leaving 9. Overall
that represents a higher failure rate than for the group we just considered. the
white:;. The major differenve has to do with the academic screen, and th:is of course
is the, experience that one commonly has in applying academic tests to the black
group.
]f we trove to tite Latin group, starting with 207, 40 fail on the academic
screen, Ston the: validity screen, 39 on the te;rperrient screen, leaving 47.
liy co:npa ri son vi th the other groups the failure rate, I hate to call i.t a failure
rate, on the validity screen, i:; lower for the Latin group than it is for eithier
the white or the black group. On the other hand, tht failure rate on the tctnperment
scree:t is somewhat higher, This relates to a comment I made to the Civil Service
Commission a week ago when 1 was asked about what we learned about the Latin
group .as a result: of our experience bore, this documents the notion that the Latin
as ri whole responded more openly to these: tests and as a result fc+eler of them
area being disqualified from the validity screen but relative more of them are
them are at risk then, when it comes to the teinperment screen.
Looking at the female group bare, 156 tested, 34 failed the academic
eereen, 79 failed the validity screen, only 9 failed the tempertnent screen
V
leaving 34,
Mayor ferret Would you repeat the black tialc figures,
Dr. Saunders: Black male figures, --starting with 125, 57 failed the
academic screen, 51 failed the validity screen, S failed the temperment
screen, 9 remain.
)'Mayor Ferre: Let me repeat these figures to make sure we got them
all right: 77 white males, of which failure academic 6, validity 46,
temperment 10, passed, 15; black males, 125, 57 academic, 51 validity,
8 temperment, 9 passed; Latin males, 207, 40 academic, 81 validity, 39
temperment, 47 passed; female, 156, 34 academic, 79 validity, 9 temperment,
34 passed.
Dr. Saunders: Check, ---with respect to the female group what we see
is a relatively high rate for them of failure on the validity screen and
a relative low rate of failure on the temperment screen. This makes sense
to me from a psychological point of view because we did include in the battery
two tests that were labeled as male tests, and I could readily imagine that
those females who were taking these tests could be a little up tight over the
fact that that they were being asked to respond to instruments that had originally
been developed for males, and this could contribute to thier standing on the
validity screen. On the other hand those females who are applying for such a
position as police officer, I suspect, know they want to do this, have some
idea of what is involved and it doesn't surprise me again to see them failing
at a relative lower rate on the temperment screen where we are looking for a
match between individual qualifications and job requirements.
So that is how the different screens interact with the different ethinc
groups with which the consent decree is concerned.
Fir.. I'rintz: Mayor if I may, the figures you just gave Dr. Saunders
comes to a total of 1.05 people, there is one missing somewhere.
Dr. Saunders: There is a reason for that, the missing individual
is male but our information doesn't indicate which of the three races or
ethinc groups he should be assigned to. I suspect that the missing one
belongs in the white male column. The other version of these figures that
I have been shown actually increases the number of passes for the white
males from 15 up to 18, leaves the blacks unchanged and reduces the Latin
from 47 to 45.
There is another group that questions have been raised with respect
to how did they fare in this situation. Are we ready at this point to examine
the way in which the service aides have gone through this process?
Mayor Ferre: Okay.
1)r. Saunders: It is my understanding that there are in fact two sorts
of individuals whom we night label as public service aides. There are those
who are shall we say incumbents in the job of public service aides and those
inay be simply be applying for thatjob through the medium of taking this recruit
battery. Let me address myself first to the 50 incumbents in the public service
aid position. It was only last night that 7 had for the first time a list of
those individuals by name. 'i'his is one of the reasons why this inateria]is
being presented to you orally at this time. Out of the 50 incumbent, public
service aides, on the academic screen we have 0 failures, I am sure this comes
as no si.irpr.i ,e to the public service aides. They have already beer, screened by
n process which is essentially compsr.tble to our academic screen, and Choy liave
probably passed it as a higher 1ev.s1 of efficiency t1:an the one we are requiring
here. So we have 0 failures :in that group on this account. We h:iv°c 31screened
outon the basis of validity screen, and 4 on the basis of the temperment screen,
Mayor Ferro; }low many total were there.?
Dr.. Saunders: 50,--- •
Mayor Ferre: Oh I see, so then the balance passed,
Pr. Saunders; There are 15 appearing on the register. Those are public
service aides Incumbents, that we are referring to hero, There are also 35
retie ".eserves- a' apetieanta ain't ehat llap,,aaaa tee:R i.. a se,':hr.tt_ ee.ory,
Mayor Ferret There were 35?
Dr, Saunders: There were 35 public service aid applicants of who 7 did
not appear, 28 were tested, and 8 appear on the register and I do not have
a list by name of those individuals, so I am unable to break down how they
fated on the separate screens. But the results with respect to the public
service aid are very much as Ithought they were, when I was called up
last week to try to understand what was happening. I knew from our experience
in 1975 that public service aides were certainly going to pass the academic
screen, and we have 0 who did not pass. I rather suspected from the circumstances
surrounding the incumbent public service aid group that they might be in a parti-
ularly vulnerable position with respect to the validity screen because these
are individuals who are working within the department and who by and large in
the department at the time we conducted our validity study in December and
surrounding that excercise there was, I have to say, a great deal of misinfor-
mation, misunderstanding, perhaps even miscommunication surrounding the whole
exercise and as a result , attitudes unfavorable to passing the validity
screen could very well be engendered. Actually I am a little bit surprised
that, I think it is a favorable outcome, we have only 4 here in this group
who failed the temperment screen alone. I think this indicates that the
individuals in this group by and large, do match the expectations that we
have for the temperment of a successful police officer. I would have to say
that the group, as a group looks as much like incumbent police officers as
the incumbents look like themselves. So the performance for the group as a
group is certainly a creditable one, overall we can observe that the pass
rate for this group is higher than for any other group that we have under
consideration. Even though it is only 30%, that is substantially higher
than we have for any other group. So I see these results as indicating the
trend of validity within the data which I had reason to expect before we
entered into the process.
0f course the 50 individuals that I have tallied for you under the
heading of incumbent public service aides are included elsewhere in the
other groups we considered. They are not a new group, as part of the 573.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor I would like the Doctor to make one observation.
If you were to separate the 573 into two groups, 50 public service aides
and 523 others, then the pass ratio for the public service aides would
be approximately twice that of the larger group.
Dr. Saunders: Very nearly twice. For the public service aides it
would be exactly 30% and for the remaining group it would about 16, yes.
These are a lot of numbers to assimilate all at one time. I do have some
other kinds of numbers on my page here, having to do primarily with experience
on last year's register. I have pretty much covered the picture as it can be
covered at this point in time for the 1976 register.
This would be a good point to get into questions and answers or whatever.
Mayor. Ferro: Let me tell you what my concern is. Unfortunately sometimes
we divide things in areas of responsibility and sometimes that is good and some-
times it is bad. henry Ford said that no problem is insurmountable if you divide
it small components and attack it. The: trouble with dividing the problems
in small areas of responsibility is precisely that, that you don't know who
is accountable. Now, you are here, Doctor, and your associates, because of n
court process the city of Miami became involved in, thar refer to as the
Cohen case. The Cohen case which was a consent decrier signed by the City of
three yc.irs ago. At that time 1 was not on this coikinission, but it
wee signed by Melvin Reese, then with the approval ofthi:; commission, agreed
to do certain things amongst which wee the type of reJesi„n of tents. Now, in
Lira seaut ime, you have token upon yearned f with our apprav:il and under our acceptance
in a rout rect, the design not only of this test but of a s:holy, eeries of other
tests as we agreed to in the Cohen case. This has costs the citizens of this
community up to now $275,000. By the way, Paul, you didn't .answer %Ahara we gut
these monies from, because 1 think :it is important.
Mr, Andrews: from the federal_ revenue sharing funds, -----
Mayor. Furre: So these arc federal revenue sharing funds which even though
they cone, from the federal government, we can say really belong to the peepic!
of Miami and could he used for day care center, or other activities the city is
!rt . In in,!L, ''tl t1liitt'',n th. ' ':11 r+ 1:?. , t ''
A ti
Li
of the City, I have no complaints about that. We bad to go through thin process
that is a lot of money for a small city like Miami, but we had to go through
process, I am concerned about several things, First of all I am concerned about
the fact that in a way, in giving you the responsibility and the current authority
we have not only passed on this responsibility, we may have abdicated somewhat,
in this sense, because, Paul, and I say abdicate in this sense, ---I don't want
a copy of the test, I don't think I as Mayor should have a copy of the test, but
I think that you or somebody in the administration ought to have, ought to know
exactly what is going on in the testing procedure, or somebody in the police
department, As I understand from your memo, we do not have a copy of the test,
and we don't know what the contents of the test was, so there is no way of
questioning.
Mr. Andrews; Mr. Mayor may Iinterrupt you only from the standpoint to ----
Mayor Ferre: I have five points I want to make, go ahead, ----
Mr. Andrews: --if you do, I think it is important to come to understanding
about two areas you have just covered, one, the commission actually did not
pass on a responsibility to the consultant. That responsibility was inherent
in the Cohen case, all the commission did in conjunction with the plaintiffs
was, went through a process of selection.
Mayor Ferre: Paul, you and I have been in the same dilemma before and
I would remind you of one case when we discussed the Cohen case, when you
said, here is the Cohen case, it specifically mandates the Manager to get
this problem solved. John Lloyd said, and he was embarrassed about it, he
said Paul I hate to tell you this, but that is contrary to the charter of
the City of Miami, and the court cannot force upon the City of Miami something
that is contrary to our constitution, which is our charter. Am I correct in
paraphrasing your words?
Mr. Lloyd: Yes, and we further explained that.
Mayor Ferre: Then we got into the whole thing of, where does the
Civil Service procedure fit into all of this, then we got into this whole
division, of who really is responsible. Because who is responsible also
comes up not only who is to blame, but who gets the credit, and what happened
we ended up in one of these things where it was 'don't blame nte, it is not
my responsibility', and the next guy said don't blame me, the Manager is
suppose to take care of it, but don't blame me because the Manager can't
because the charter precludes it, and we went into this whole thing. And this
is where Charlie got a little bit upset at me, and he said, we were talking
about at that time, --we got into the whole process of the Booz Allen and
I saw Stuart Matlin walk by, the implementation of that as you recall, and
where Charlie said look, give us a year and we are going to see a lot of these
things implemented and that is why we got into the rigamarole.
Now, getting back to the thrust of where I am going, my first concern
is that here we are again with the division of responsibilities and therefore
the division of authority which lends itself to either an abdication or the
respons:lbilty per se, okay, because it is because of the Cohen consent decree
or it leads into confustion because the question is, here is a battery of
tests that determine the future of the police department, yet the police
chief doesn't know what the testhas, the Manager doesn't kuow what the test
has, aiul Bob Paulk doesn't know what the test has. And the Chief Examiner
doesn't know, because The didn't give) the exam.
Nr. i•1r. Mayor may I :interrupt?
Mr. /tndrews : Mr. Mayor before Mr. Paulk F;pea s between Air.. Pattlk and
myself, and the Chief, there :i.5 DO confusion as to where areas of responsibility
lie.
Mayor Ferre: Have you seen the test?
Mr. Andrews: I have not.
Mayor- V errce; Tins the Chief seen the test?
Mr, Andrews; No, and he should not.
Mayor Fer.re:Has Bob Paulk seen the: test?
Mr. Paulk: Yes. With some clarification, and that i. ; why 1_ wish to
interrupt you at this point to discuss, because representatives from the
Industrial Relations Center of the University of Chicago invited myself
and Capt. Reese from the Police Department in 1975 prior to the first ad-
ministration of the battery that was administered to have that test explained
to us, in full detail so we could see what their work product was and the
rationale behind it. It was explained to us, we saw specifically, When we
returned we asked,
Mayor Ferre: When did you and Captain Reese see this?
Mr. Paulk: Approximately March of 1975.
Mayor Ferre:That is a year ago. You can't tell me you have seen the
test. You saw what was going to be put into the test.
Mr. Paulk: Correct. Since that time the representatives from the
University of Chicago came into Miami and we had a workshop upstairs with
the City Manager and I don't recall who all was present at that time, outlining
the examination, the methodology to be used and the criterion, etc. Then the
examination was administered. The test that was recently administered, there
were some changes, not extensively, but one portion was substituted for another.
Mayor Ferre: If there wern't any changes why did it take a year to get
the test done?
Mr. Paulk: There were some changes that they felt necessary as a result
of the first administration. I think he can clarity that for. you. But at any
rate I have not seen those changes. I don't believe anyone in the city has.
And we seriously resisted any efforts to try and retain any copies of that
because, I ant not trying to say that is not my job, but trying to indicate
that by way of the consent decree, it extracted that from the city's adminis-
tration and we should not have had any input in the design of the examination
by the very fact that the degree existed.
Mayor FLrrc: Let me make my other four points. My first point is, I
question the whcle area of the responsibility vis a vis what's happened of
the city administration, which means the police department and civil service,
and the examiner. The fact that you were told in March of last year what was
going to be in the exam is a partial answer but I think that needs to be dis-
cussed a little bit further.
My second question is this. The city of Miami gor a grant from the federal
government, Mr. Andrews, and we have spent close to $350,000. in what we now
call the tricultural grant. I was responsible for that along with Commissioner
Reboso and I repeat for the record one more time how that came about. The
President of the United States had committee called the Cabinet Committee
for the Spanish Speaking, and the chairman of that was a fellow by the name
of henry I;amedis who begin pursued vigorously by one Lawton Chiles and henry
ILtmeclis was about to get canned, to put it in the vernacular, and be called
up through his associate, a Puerto Rican by the name of l::unon Meduro, who
was a friend of Reboso's and I subsequently met him, he by the way is doing
we] l in the federal procedure in Wish in ;ton, and roving up the ranks. He called
up anti said, he wants your support with Law.aton Chile::, to get Lawton Chiles
off his back, because- the funding; was being stopped and Peboso and I very
simply a:;ked the question, what has the hispanic Cu,:imittee done for the Spanish
spcakin; people of Florida, nothing;. 'They have done a lot: for the !lexicons
in California and Texas but 1 don't seta tlhe., have don. anything for this
community. Subsequently they cntne down and after a series of mooting;:;, n
fellow by t:he 'nemp of lk.'rb Itice who was with 1.EAA, came down hare, we started
to talk about making a grant. At that point, ] saw Lt. Harrison around here a
little while ago, the process started where letter started going back and forth
about how this was fair and how this was discriminatory against other groups
and an and on and on, and t:he whole thing was amended to include fist blacks,
then everybody so that it became a Trictiltural proe ram. 1 want: to repeat on the
record that MR. Barb TUce told me, Mr, Mayor I cannot tell you en the record, but
I will tell you in conversation that you are headed for failure with the Tricul.t:ural
program because what you are attempting to do, is to put the fox in t:he chicken coop,
Those ware his words, and the said what is going to happen is that the whole program
is eo i ng to bP w:ttere d and at the erd of the pro:T:tm von will not pet th.. results
1.4
that you think you will get. My rt'ccnnm'nd:ition to you, :in to do th:is outside
of the city of Miami, and I. told you this Paul, You nay recall our conversation,
and the way to do that :i:, you get Hispanic pniicenen to form nn association, or
they already have an associations let: them Hoke the appeal for the grant, and
we wilt fund them and keep it out of the system of the PRA and 1'OP, police
department administration. I answered Mr. Herb Rice, even a lot of people think
that I always have something against the police department. T do not. And I told
him to do that, would be a lack of confidence in the people that are involved
in administration and the police department and T. will not accept your recommend-
ation, And this one time around, we are going to do it within the system, we
are going to do it within the police department, within the administration
and within the system.
The question I have based on that preamble, is this. What has been a
success of the Tricultural program? Have we accomplished the original idea
of helping minority groups, specifically as it was originated by Henry Remeris,
the Latin minority which now constitutes 54% of this community, and subsequently
the black minorities and women, to enter into police service. What, honest to
goodness are the results. 1-lave we succeeded? Or has this been watered down?
How many people, after we spent $350,000, have we actually gotten into the
system? Twenty, ---a hundred? How much does it cost per person? And then comes
a series of questions regarding that, if we have the failure rate we had, in
the Tricultural program, then what was the purpose of the Tricultural program?
Why were we training people in areas that didn't really have an eventual impact?
Are we training people in manuals and things that don't mean anything? That are
not important for the test? Or put it another way. Should we have tested these
people for attitudes and psychological problems before we get involved in spending
any money? No use taking a person out of a minority program and encouraging them
and saying there is a great opportunity for you as a policeman or policewoman,
and give them all this hope and train them, and go through this program and spend
all these hours of going to clases and studying and then fail them on an attitude
because they had rather be a pilot, ---in a whole series of psychological things
that put through n computer, why didn't you do that in the beginning, why don't
you test and find out if these people are aspiring to these posts, just they
are not psychologically able, --why wait, and training ali. these people, giving
them hope and failing them after they have gone through the whole process.
Wouldn't we be better off eliminating them in the beginning and those that are
psychological fit, and attitude wise fit, then we give them some help academically
because there is no way you can train somebody to pass the test psychologically
and there is no way you can train them for attitudes. We may as well do it in
the beginning, rather than the end, because, and this is my third point, what
you end up doing is, you end up discouraging a lot of people because unfort-
unately these people that didn't pass, friends, families and believe me, in
both the black and Latin communities, there is an awful lot of communication
that goes by word of mouth. The Black community functions that way. It doesn't
function with newspapers. The Latin community functions that way. Something
happens to a family and the whole neighborhood knows about it in two days.
lliey talk about it at the beauty shop, the work bench, at church gatherings,
and social gatherings and this does irreparable harry in our future attempts
to try to get minorities. This is my third question, in relationship to that,
if we only have 17 openings or 20 openings, or. 50 openings a year, despite the
fact that a lot of people are cornpl.ainin; about the city of Miami and notice
that year after year there arc less people that are quitting, which in my opinion
great. I think it is .important that people who work for the city are motivated
so my questton is this, shouldn't: we in this whole process, really try, at the
outset sp ci fy what is available, because ;e :i f there are only 20 positions open,
1 don't think we should go out a;id encourage a thousand, or five hundred or
two hundred, and we :should at the very outset, shouldn't we say, we don't
know how i..any vacancies there will he in the police department., but we want
you to know what vacancies there were last year, and the year before. 'I'ha' year
before thorn t•a•re a hundred vaeancie:;, and 'last yt.ar there fi 5, and we think there
won't he more than 30 this year. As I recollect those are the fig urea: we are
talking about. It used to be over 100 and went down to about 50. Now, I. under-
stand at the rate we are going it is less than that. T tlitnk out of pure, —
we are talking about this new age after Watergate of full disclosure, and
sunshine In government, and telling everybody whit is going on. Shouldn't we
tell the co:tnunit:y so that Kline of tale Miami News won't have to
write a story in great: surprise that we spent a half millioIt dollars to
fill 17,----she didn't write that, she doesn't write titles, the headlines,
and it was an unfortunate headline, The story was accurate, but the headline,
was vary misleading, because in fact that isn't quite the w:iy :it is. WE haven't
spent a half million dollars to fill 17 vacancies. We have been filling
vacancies; all along and you have to take :it from the inception of the
Cohen cases and the Tricultural program which .is now two years old. Also
yott have to take into account the on -going process of how many people we
ate going to get :in the years to cone due to our efforts of the last
two years. But the basic question that I have, is in relationship to
the vacancies available. Shouldn't we tell people, so that there isn't
an illusion of something that isn't, or doesn't exist. Tirat, is my third
question.
My fourth question is in relationship to the test itself, and I think
for us to really consider what validity failure really means, I think I under-
stand but I am not too sure that I do. What concerns me are cases like,
Annamaria Morales, who is reported by the Miami News. Here is a person who, —
is she here, by the way, ---here is a person who is a public service aid, she
get a 3.7 at the public service aid, enthused about being a policewoman, works
with us for a year and a half, really gung-ho, goes to FIU to improve herself,
--you have to give this kid credit, --three and half years her average is 3.7,
takes the Metro exam, gets a 93, we fail her, and she is over at Metro becoming
a policewoman in Metro and here is a person who really had her heart into this
----worked diligently, did well academically, and we don't have her now. Maybe
there is a good reason for it. I don't know.
liere is another fellow, Jose R. , he has a IBS in biology from
a New York college, he was in the Ph D. program of Leaman College, he speaks
Spanish, English, Italian, Portuguese and Russian, also took the New York
policeman's exam and passed in New York City with a 93, he picked a Metro
test 93.8,----is he here ---Mr. are you here? yes, ----passes the
New York police exam with 93,----gets a 93.8 in Metro, and we don't have
a place for him in the City of Miami Police Department. It obviously brings up
some very basic questions as to whether or not, ---I don't know, maybe psycho-
logically he is not fitted to be a policeman, but it seems to me, that that.has
to be defended by the University of Chicago, or by the Civil Service, or by
the administration. Somebody has to defend why a man like this,--l. recognize I
am talking about academic background, and I recognize that the city of New York
does not have psychological batteries of tests, and I recognize that Metro
does not have validity tests. But I have to ask the question, how valid is the
validity test? So I am not misunderstood, since the press is here, and I don't
want to be misinterpreted . We complain an awful lot in this community about
things. We want to have our cake and eat it too. We want everything, and we
always look at the negatives of everything and kick it around. Now we had a
case here , which was very much in the news. Some of you were very upset about
that, and I am talking about the fellow whose eye was kicked out, was his name
Wright? oh, Mr. Dixon. For those of you who don't remember, Mr. Dixon was
black, evidently a habitual drunk, and he was apprehended in front of WTVJ, and
this thing was witnessed by Bob Mayer of the editorial staff of WTVJ, and a
utility man who was up on a pole working for Florida Power & Light, and as I
remember the case, the man was apprehended, he was wrestled with, he resisted
arrest, he was handcuffed, and then according to eye witnesses, was severely
beaten, after hc.Was handcuffed, and in one of the cases, he was kicked, and they
kicked his eye out. He lost the vision of one eye because the eye was kicked out.
As you may recall., there was no disciplinary action taken because it was never
proven which one of the fora- policemen were involved in the arrest, was the
one who actually kicked his eye cut. Three of them have since been promoted
as I understand. As you may recall, there was a .lot of furor in the newspapers.
There was; au editorial comment in one paper complaining about the fact that
how could we promote one of the four- :if we never clarified, --he ray the one
who kicked the mman's eye out. The answer of course was, In tliis country, a
alibi 1s innocent untilproven guilty. We couldn't prove anyone was guilty,
;o the case va:, forgotten about. it: other wordy, i.t was concluded. To avoid
that type of problem 1 think .is one of the reasons why in the Cohen case.,
we agreed to go to they redesign of the tests, so that not only would it
eliminate cultural bias, but it would :zl;:o take into account psychological
impairment so that we would not get into the police department people who
would be prone to kick a man when he had his hands cuffed, and behind hied
and was down on the floor and kick his eye c,ut, For the record and for the
press, lany not in any way implying or think the majority of policemen in the
City of Miami go around kicking people who are handcuffed, and kicking their
eyes out, 1 thank that is a small percentage of the total of our police department
and we have a good police department, and the majority of our police personnel
are honest to goodness public servants that arc dedicated to the well--he.ing
Or tlrl'r , w:mun t`, . But, even if ther is on, or t':o, of thr•.sse 1, id e;, Ys, we
'4
we have a problem: That is the problem that the Chief and administration
if trying to address itself to, and why the Commission when :in this direction.
I want to say, that it is not quite that simple :,hire we say we are not going
to have psychological. tests. The reason these attitude tests are in there is
precisely to eliminate or hopefully eliminate, from future policemen and women
the type of attitude that would be propensive. I want to make that statement
on the record.
Dr. Saunders: Mr. Mayor I think you have answered your own question,
in large measure I would like to reinforce the relationship to this discussion
you have just given us, of this so-called validity screen.
Mayor FErre: Let me ask my last question and then I promise to keep quiet,
(for a while anyway).
Mr. Reboso: May I make a short question? Dr. Saunders, did the University
of Chicago give similar test to 400 policemen at the station a few months ago?
Dr. Saunders: Yes, we gave the same battery of tests to 383 members of
the police department, this was done in December.
Mr. Reboso: In December? What was the results of that?
Dr. Saunders: The detailed results of that are comprised, ---a validation
study on which we are relying for purposes of justifying the battery as it
currently is being applied. The results of that in due course, and this is
perhaps a month or two down the road, the results of that will comprise the
substance of a fairly thick detailed report, a document that should reside
and I presume will reside in the files somewhere in this city to undergird
to support the fact that the test battery has been developed and is being
applied in accordance with the EEOC guidelines.
Mr. Reboso: It was the same test?
Dr. Saunders: Exactly the same materials.
Mayor Ferre: In other words, you are asking as to the results so that
we can compare.
MR. REboso: That is right.
Mayor Ferre: As to what the difference is between our existing police
force, in other words, we may he setting standards that are not in keeping
with what we presently have.
Mr. Reboso: That is the purpose of the question. Do you have the results
of that test.
Dr. Saunders: We have the results of that in the form that we needed
t-lwrn, in order to apply them to the recruit group. T don't not have the results
of that in a form that would be closely comparable with the numbers we have
just been examining.
Mr. IReboso : You say the test was given in I)ecemb_-r?
Dr. Saunders: The :second week in December.,--- the tests h:eve been
;;cored and they have been, from an analysis point: of view, they have been
subjected to a good deal. more :scrutiny than the recruit tryst that we have
just been loolcing at. But the form of analysis they have been subjected to
.is quite different from the analysis that we }rave just been looking at:, We
have the tests in a group sense. Wu know what part of each test correlates
with effectiveness on the job.From those correlations we know thaw to assign
weights to the different parts of the test, Wu know what the .average perfarmauce
of the incumbent group is on each part of the battery, but we have specifically
warned on those data as a single group because we have to be able to apply a
uniform procedure across the board regardless; of the ethnic background of an
inaidivual, So the results we have on that: group are not broken down by ethane.
background,
Yr, 1'.AJo:io: Aro you going to grade thn.5 tests?
1)r, Saunders: Grade them?
Mr, Reboso: On the same basis and same three types of screens we have
here? The validation, the academic, -----
Dr, Saunders: They can be graded, they have been graded with respect to
the validity screen, because this was the new thing we found we had to develop
and I can say from what I know of those results,that if we Were to apply the
validity screen to the incumbent group, there would be a fairly high level
of rejection. I. am not saying these people fail, the issue I am raising is
centrally related to the meaning of this validity screen, and what the validity
screen is telling us, is whether or not, or to what extent we should place
reliance on the meaning of the rest of the battery. A high score on the validity
screen says in effect, that we can trust what we see on the rest of it. A low
score says, we don't have any evidence.
Mayor Ferre: I. question whether or not we are creating a straw man
in the process here, that what we are trying to do, ----I am not saying that
I am against it, I really haven't concluded yet, how I feel about all these
things, because it is really complicated, but I am questioning if for example
it turns out that all or a great majority of our police personnel fail the
validity test, whether or not we are trying to createomething impossible
to create, number one, or the conclusion is then we have a serious problem,
in our police department at the present time, which I don't happen to believe.
But if you come up with those results, and de facto out of 380, you have a
high failure test in validity, then you have to come to a conclusion, one,
are you creating straw man which is impossible, really in relation to reality,
or, two, do we have a serious internal problem in our police department.
Dr. Saunders: I think perhaps there is a third alternative here, related
to the circumstances that surrounded our collection of the concurrent validity
data in the department in December. I think I did indicate earlier that we did
have some commun:l.cation problems at that time and we did have the circumstance
that a number of individuals felt that they had thei.r arms being twisted to
cooperate with this validity study in any way.
Mayor Ferre: Then you would conclude that falls in the first category,
that is, that you are creating a straw man, in other words, youa re creating
something that really doesn't exist.
Dr. Saunders: It is my belief and expectation if the same test were
given to that same group, under somewhat different circumstances, that the
pass rate on the validity screen would he much higher.
Mayor Ferre: Which same group? You mean the group that took this?
Dr. Saunders: Either group for that matter.
Mayor Ferro: You are talking about the 573,---
Dr. Saunders: I was talking about the incumbent policemen of last
December, but 1. would apply this same remark to the current group.
Mayor. Ferro: 'Palen cones the key question, that is, :1 E that is so,
your statement is just_ so, then are ode', in effect, ect, talc Ln„ nay from the
process people who really perhaps could be darn good cops and just because
of the ;sequence of the test, ue in effect, are el.:i;lintLing them unfairly,
Dr. Saunders: P,oL on the basis of t:he :sequence of the tests.
Mayor. Ferre: Lei me re —phrase the quosttun. If you made the statc:wnt:,
that if, the failure on the validity test wli.icli was, you said 60%,----
Dr. Satnuters :---roughly,----i f you put that first, —
Mayor Ferre:---if you taut that first, would be 60X, --I don't care if
you put it first- or last, 60% of the people failed it, therefore are eliminated,
from the passing grade. If you tell r:.e that out of the 607 of 5.73, which would
close t:o 350 people that failed, on this, validity test, many of them would pass
it if they were to take it over agai.n, then I ask you the question, if those
t..eel r;::i'_dtl :11"?.1r.^ric'.11lV ..:1Ct L. Tp-'r e,t-11' a t1 • i i ?'t >... :a ):2
10
the statement that you made, getting into a little.
Dr. Saunders: Let me try to clarify it sot“ewhat. I was thinking;
particularly of the incumbent public service aid group within the 573,
where I have reasons to believe that they have been subjected to somewhat
different surrounding circumstances regarding their attitudes towards the
test, and it that group particularly,--
t'tayor Ferre: What does that mean?
Dr. Saunders: Well they are in the department, they work within the
department. They are subjected from day to day to all of the discussion
and scuttlebutt concerning this testing procedure that has been within the
department since we announced last November that a validation study was
going to take place.
Mayor Ferre: Are you implying that the procedure within the department
would tend to make the individual apprehensive and therefore their attitude
would be wrong?
Dr. Saunders: I am implying that, yes,
Mayor Ferre: Then what you are further saying is, that we have to review
then our own internal procedures as to what we do with these P S A's. Is that
correct?
Dr. Saunders:That may be an implication.
Mayor Ferre: Is it or isn't it?
Dr. Saunders: For me it would be, but I don't have all the factors
involved in that in my head.
Mayor Ferre: My fifth question is specifically for the P.S.A's. IIere is
what it is, and It is not to you really, it is to us, the City, administration,
and the Chief of Police, and to the Manager, the P,S.A. program was an experiment
in trying to up —grade and improve our police department by getting sort of a
high school so to speak of people who we would then take into the police department,
who we would have an opportunity to work with and test, and see their attitudes
and build up confidence and rapport and relationship and then eventually move
them into the police department. If what the Doctor is saying is so, we may be
actually be doing more harm than good. I am asking the question and because it
seems to me almost foolish, frankly, to have 50 P.S.A.'s of which 31 failed
their validity battery of tests, because doggone it, if that is the case, and
that is 62%, we either ought to know that before they are. P.S.A's or ought to
know it two weeks later, but I think it is absurd to have someone like this
young lady, Morales, have her get 3.78 in her academic scoring and
93 at Metro, and if she doesn't have the proper validity attitude, we should
have let her go a year ago.11e should have told her, look, you are not going
to make it for a policeman.
Mr. Andrews: Mr. Mayor we have to put so^e things in perspective.
Mayor Ferre: t;e didn't have this test a year ago.
Mr. Rehoso: Doctor, do you have a Latin on your. staff?
Dr. Saunders,: We have access to Latins throe„ h the rust of the Uaivera.i.ty,
not directly on our staff.
Mr. Relnmo: Did you have any Latins really involved?
Dr. Saunders; WE clici not particular take advantage of this :in relation
to this exam,
Nr, Reboso: Then how do you propose to establish a profile in• a city which
is 567 Latin, If a Latin is not involved in this e:-au?
Dr. Saunders; WE have a validation study in which a number of individuals
?.nuns ;t!;(. ‘, (`':'.lial.nthose data to see ¶.hat i` teat, of whether the!
1.f
Latin group behaves differently from the other. groups tri.t.h respect to the
way we have chosen to score it.. There are a lot of ways in which Latins
might potentially behave differently on a tests but if we :ignore the difference
and pay attention to things which they do in a sicAl;tr way, we can be using
the test in a way that is perfectly fair and proper, and 1 think this is what
we are doing.
Mrs. Skubish: Dr.. Saunders, in what area has the University of
Chicago been involved in exams for police departments?
Dr.. Saunders:You mean geographic area?
Mrs. Skubish: Yes.
Dr. Saunders: WE began this in the 1960's. Our first study in this
was with the Chicago police department and subsequently we did a follow-up
study with the Chicago police department. We have been involved with the
City of Detroit in a series of two or three studies. WE have been in the
city of Louisville, we have been working with a consortium of small communities
in the state of Illinois. We are currently working with the INdiana state police,
and we are currently involved in what we call a national police project involving
5 state police agencies and 5 large metropolitan agencies.
Mrs. Skubish: plow do the minority groups fare in the exams?
Dr. Saunders: I think probably the situation varies from each place
to the next. Certainly the results at the general level are pretty comparable
to what we are seeing here. I could also comment that in many respects the
battery of tests we are using is quite comparable to what we are using here.
Mr. Printz: Doctor, with regards to these other enforcement agencies
that you have mentioned, did they have a similar type programs such as the
P.S.A.'s that we have here in the city of Miami?
Dr. Saunders: I do not recall such but that is not very good evidence
because I was not personally involved in any of those states, except the
last one, which is on -going.
Mr. Printz: Let me ask you a direct question with regard to the P.S.A's
is it your opinion that the PSA's should have been re -tested in this process,
or that they could have been grandfathered in?
Dr. Saunders: Well I don't know whether they could have been grandfathered
in. It is my opinion that they should not have been subjected to an identical
testing process from the rest of this group.
Mayor Ferre:Then why did you?
I)r. Saunders: They were supplied to us as part of the same applicant
group.
Mayor. I erre: Who made that decision?
Dr. Saunders: I assume this is done in civil. service.
Mr, Print.x: Mr. Mayor. if 1 may, just as answer to another. question
1 have, fol lowing that same 1 ine of logic,
Mayor PJ'rro : The que.it ion hasn't been ;tnnwered.
!,11:..1'riut.:: Actually, the exposure and the job experience of t.heue
PSA's from 1 to 2 years, in actuality was a detr:i.i:'i'nt in taking this process
and particularly the validity portion of the testing process. If 'i can recall
that 7 have heard here this morning ,
Dr. Saunders; l think that: is going to far in the other direction,
1 t,uuld agree that the notion of boing or. the job for a year or two would
be von, valuable experience and would tend to help the individualin respect
to what we arc cal. :ling a temperment Screen, 1 think we see that in the data.
On the other eland if it has been a detriment, it has been in the area of the
development of some test -taking attitudes which are showing themselves here
t ..1 i3ity r ern.
1 8
Mr. Printz: That is exactly what I et::t speaking about. The fact that
you have mentioned it here in your conversation with retards of the attitudes
that some have been exposed to, toit:h regards to the attitudes of even the
incumbent police officers that participated in the validation process, lf
the attitudes Vere not good of the participants established the validity
of the process that these people just went through, then you can't really
expect those 1'SA's being within the department, and the exposure of the
department of having any different attitude.
Mayor Ferre:Amen. That is the whole point, and basically, what it
amounts to is this, and I really don't address it to you Doctor, but
all of us, because we can't pick on the University of Chicago and say
we are going to whip you because it is all your fault. But here is the
point, Paul, and to the Police Chief and Bob Paulk, who decides what the
attitudes are and what validity is all about? See? Does the University of
Chicago decide, and if so, are they creating an impossible dream, or does
the Police Chief do it? Do we do it? 0r are we saying that they ought to
be in a certain way but in reality they are not, because these PSA's can
get into the department and they get taught to look at situations and cir-
cumstances in a certain way, and yet the test may be precisely invalidating
the attitudes that these PSA's are told are , so my question is,
and its a chicken -and -egg question --who decides what? And because you got
the University of Chicago out here and the City of Miami police department
out here, what is the relationship between all these things that are happening.
Mr. Andrews: May I start by responding to at least a portion of the
area you are attempting to address. I think this whole process is going to
become infinitely more complex as we continue to discuss this. If we dwell
on the area of those who have not measure up to the criteria that has been
established, let's start from a different point of view and see if we can't
answer some of the questions that we have, by approaching this from the register
that has been established with the 106 on it, and their relationship to the
rest of the candidates and their relationship to the rest of the department.
From what I have learned the questions that T have raised, I am satisfied
that the 106 candidates that we have are really superior candidates and that
group of candidates exceeds the norm that may exist very well in the existing
police department and that same police department is also in the process of
training the PAS,so he is influenced by that. The question you want to raise,
and the maybe the question you should pose to Dr. Saunders, is, if we intergrate
successfully 75% of the 106 of this register, we do that the following year, and
candidates are available to us in a reasonable way through this process, and
they are as a proper ethinc balance, reasonable ethinc balance among those 106
candidates and those in the future, what is likely to occur to the total police
department after that process is in effect? At the present time we have not
problem with, as I see it, of integrating the 106 over a period of one year.
Really, there may be a problem in that we may find that we cannot exhaust this
particular register because economic conditions have changed and where the
average vacancy rate in a department was 7 to 8 per month a year ago, that is
now changed to where we have a vacancy rate of about 5 or 6 per month. That is
subject to change also as we move through changing conditions. So with a rate
of people Leaving that register that will not come into tite department repre-
senting some 25 to 30, that would :indicate that there about 75 to 80 individuals
and at the useagc rate of about 6 per month thztt accounts for. 60 so we presumably
we have 20 J eft al the end of the year, so our problem j:; that we have a reasonably
balanced register in relation to our nue'c' that that register represents the
ethnic hal.:uice reasonably, that we had all, hoped to ncconplish, that it. :is a
register from my judgement of people that are exir.c:mely qualified, and I am
going t0 tiny i.t again unless Dr. Saunders corrects nit, that the temperment
and qualities other than academic that we round through establishing this
register rtay be is above the norm of the department.
Mayor Ferri!: That 1s the point.What Charlie iluttoo is aski.n', is if we
created an artificial barrier?
Mr, Andrews: I don't think so at: this st:t,ye.
Mayor 1'lrro; Paul, if what the Doctor had said was, that: he went to
the police department and tested 380 people., the took the median averages,
ttaybt he took the extremes out, he said we don't want this, we don't that,
:!'..i 't' d: 'Jn to t ho .aii'it ; t ' ra, �.'h t f ttt • sa
., i ri d� t:� .t�La t t.tt 1!:ar
toe said a median isn't quite what we want, but the PC)li.ce Chief and Paul
Andrews and Paulk sal down with the University of Chicago nud said, gentlemen
here is what we have in the police department, We think that is not what we
want, or we agree this is what we want, or the .average policeman is what we
want to duplicate and perpetuate, or we think the average policeman is off
by so much, then sit down and say, here is the exam we are gong to design,
try to get the kind of person into the department, if that was not done, then
what you are telling me, and this is why I talk of abdication of responsibility,
is that you left it all to the University of Chicago to make subjective decisions
based on academic criteria, you can call it anything you want, as to what a police-
man or woman ought to be, then they design a test around that. Then they gave it
to test on the police department, that is a different ball game, see? That is
what I am concerned about. It bothers me to see this fellow here, Pinnon?, and
I want to repeat again, 93 in New York City, 93.8 at Metro and I see he took
the Miami Beach exam and scored 98.89, so here is a person that in 3 police
departments, I am not saying they are perfect, but they are good police depart-
ments, he is a high scorer and will be accepted in one of those police departments.
WE have eliminated him, for other than academic reasons. One of the things ----
all these letters I keep getting, and telephone calls, a lot of people seem
to be concerned about the lowering of standards, and I keep reassuring them
that it is not our intention to lower standards and I hope we are not lowering
standards. I don't think we are, are we? We are not lowering standards are we?
You are defining what the standards are, is what you are doing. That doesn't
mean you are lowering them. The question really is, what is it that we are
putting up as standards, and who are we really eliminating out of this whole
process, and is it fair to judge to PSA's the way we did and has the Tricultural
program meant anything, and we really accomplished a thing by that, and these
are the five questions. How many jobs do we have available anyway, and there
is a question of responsibility, importance of the validity tests, the Tri-
cultural program and the PSA, those are the five questions I have Mr. Andrews.
You and Mr. Paulk and the whole system.
Are there any other question before we get on to these areas? Rose?
Mr. lluttoe: I have a question Mr. Mayor. Ur.. Saunders, you related to
the Board the other day when we approved this register, that you could not
give this same battery of tests say in St. Louis, or Kansas City but rather
it was designed for. the City of Miami because of the high make-up percentage
wise of Latins in our community. Is that correct?
Dr. Saunders:I don't think I would have said it quite that way. I would
give the same test, what would appear to be the same test from the point of
view of the person taking the test. I would not score them in the same way.
Mr. lluttoe: And why wouldn't you score them in the same way?
Dr. Saunders: BEcause it has become perfectly apparent that there are
groups, and I am thinking particularly of the Latin group in the Miami community
who respond to tests in a somewhat more open way, than seems to be typical of
other groups. Maybe I should clarify what Itrean by tha same way. I would continue
to use the same type of a model involving these three screens. If we are discussing
it at the levelof a an academic screen and validity screen and a temp e.rment
screen, at that level yes, 1 would score it: the same way. That 1 am saying
is that the components, that would go into to those, and particularly the
component:; that would go into the tempernent screen, might be different. But
at the level of saying an :individual :;hnuld qualify on each of three kinds
of ground, T would stick with that.
Pat , luttoo: tut t:hoy would be absolutely the same re;;ardles s of the
et.it iuc background.
l)r. Saunders: Within any one locale, yeti.
Mr.. itutt e: when you are screening ;tnd evaluating those battery of tests
which consist of 8 of them, and validity .and Lc•laperment, aro you aware in each
.applicant: as they are bandling his test, of this ethnic background?
Dr, Saunders: The prece.ssing is not aware, The people who handle the
aaawer sheets ;and programs which evaluate and score the sheets aro not aware.
We have the information in our files of. course, ,and that is the only way 1 am
able t:o generate frequency tables such as we have been examining, The grading
erc,e-a; doaa no!lt`lve that information.
1
2
Mr, ihattoe: This is what is confusing r::e all the way through, that you say
that the Latin has a tendency to he -more+ open, is that correct?
Dr. Saunders: We see this in the validity screen.
Mr. 11uttoe: Would this be considered the same as a Cuban who was raised
and educated in Cuba but came to the United States and more or less molded
prior to his coming here, as to a person of Cuban descent who was educated
and raised in our school system. Would it be the same?
Dr. Saunders: I cannot tell from what I have here whether there is any
difference of that kind or not. The only data that has been given to me, is
that a certain individual is Anglo or Black or Latin, either male or female.
Sometimes those data are missing.
Mr. lluttoe: Frankly I am at a loss, maybe it is because I am kind of
stupid, but I am at a loss of how we can consider and you say there would
be a difference in Kansas City as against the City of Miami, and you will grade
everybody exactly the same, regardless of ethnic background and how if one group
would be more open, to answer those questions then how are we going to come
out with a screening which will give us what we are looking for in validity
and I am looking at a list here of 29 people who were recruited by the Tricultural
group which passed this test, and the ethnic background is 23 Latin males, 1
Latin female, 3 black females, 1 black male, and 1 Anglo female. From looking
at it, here is 24 Latins, 4 blacks, and 1 Anglo, and I am then wondering off
what you have told me, about the open reponse that a Latin would have as to
other ethnic groups, or where they would be black or Anglo, in the battery
of, test and how you can grade that and come out with a result. I don't know,
I am just looking at figures here, figures don't really mean that much, and
I am asking you.
Dr. Saunders: Let me try. The grading procedure does not know and would
not know and should not know, and certainly should not take any acount of
on an individual basis, the ethnic background of an individual. However from
experience we can learn that certain patterns are characteristic of certain
groups and if we are look at an individual record and as part of that record,
we discern a high—level shall we say of openers in responding to the test on
the part of this individual, then we begin to make inferences, perhaps only
implicit inferences about that individual, even though we have not asked directly
who are you. The scoring process can quite legimately take account of that kind
of an inference. Now as comparing a city like Miami with a city like Kansas City,
what we again learn from experience, is that the mix in Miami is different from that
in Kansas City, and so before we even look at a particular set of answer sheets,
the relative probablity that we will be dealing with this kind of a case or that
kind of a case, is different, as between Kansas City and Miami, and this would
lead us in order to optimize our rate, this would lead us to set
somewhat different cutting scores, passing scores, in these two different places,
even though we would be doing essentially the same kind of thing.
Unidentified person: May I ask you a question please?
Mayor l'crre: I;::cuse me, here i:. the way we are going to do this; Dr. Morale,
I want to exhaust all the questions from the members of the commission and the
board and than after than if the administration has any members such as yourself,
who want to get: involved in questions, that will be fine, Then if we have time,
I will permit ra'ribt•r:; of the press who I:ave questions to as,k them, if not I am
sure you will be happy to answer questions to the. press, or perhaps the Manager
might, at the appropriate time if we la:avc time available. :C doubt very notch If
we are going to have any time for a public hcaarin;;. This is not a public hearing,
it is a workshop, therefore :1 don't ratio': we can really go beyond that at this
Lime,
Further questions from members of they cor,:nissina or of take Civil Service.
Dr. Morale; Doctor, may I ask you za question please? T want to compare
than figures you gave for the black male, that 57 passed the academic end 51
felled the psyrl_oiogieal test, Now, I think the Latins, that 40 passed the
academic. and 81 failed the psychological test, What is the reason, if you can
tell one, more than 50Z of the Latins didn't pass this? is it because they are
more open like. you say, or does it depend on the background, I. don't know. I an
very r;ariou:a about it,
very curious about it.
Dr, Saunders: Well in making that kind of interpretation, I am looking
at the percentages rather than at the actual numbers. We would have to look
at the fact that at that stage of the screening process, in the black column,
we ate looking 74 :individuals,
Dr. Morale: No, I am talking about 57 that passed the academic.
Dr. Saunders: We are looking at 57 failed out of 125, vs. 40 out of 207,
There really quite a difference there.
Dr, Morale: It is quite a difference. That is why, if you can explain
to me why there is such a difference.
Dr. Saunders: Why is there a difference? It seems to be the case that
when you present a black individual with a timed ability test, he has trouble
with it. This is something that has happened not just here, but quite con-
sistently in many places. We are unfortunately I think in the position of
relying in part on such an ability test as a part of this total process. But
it is the best kind of predictor we know of to predict success and ability
to pass through the police academy. Since we cannot bring a person into the
force, in the police force, without getting them through acadeny, it is a
necessity here to establish some kind of a screen. I think of this screen as
being set at a low lever compared to what it might be, or would, if we relied
completely on it, is set at a low level so that all we are trying to do is
to eliminate thos few individuals, who just don't have a ghost of a chance
getting through the academy.
:Dr. Saunders, can you tell me if the sequence
of the screen determined before the test is given?
Dr. Saunders: The sequence of the screens is purely is purely a convenience
for our discussion, because the same bottom lines results would be reached
regardless of the sequence of the screens. The numbers we would attribute
to failing on the different screens will depend on the sequence that we
examine them.
: Approximately 2 months ago the University of
Chicago administered a phychological test to our police officers and our
sergeants, and I would like to know personally, if: you will use the test
measurements when they administer the sergeant and lieutenant exams, scheduled
for March 30 to 31st.
Dr. Saunder?: We are under the risk here of confusing activities
related to the recruit selection process, with activities related to
the promotion process. The exams which are about to he given have to do
with promotions, The exams which were given to incumtents in December had
to do with validating the recruitment process. There is no reltat:ionship
between the two.
1)r. Saunders when the police officers took the
exam in December, bow were they graded?
Dr. Saunders: They were used purely and sul ely for
in conducting a validating; study for recruit selection.
in a conventional sense, the scores on :individuals will
in any way shape or form.
Mayor Ferro: That: brings up this questicii, we have now a federal freedoms
of inforrati.oa act, and 1 ask the question, 1 dont' know if anybody can giva
ma an :answer today, but perhaps the Legal department may have to get into :it,
i f an individual requests that his test score be given to him and it by analyzed,
it: would seem to the that individual is entitled to an answer, and 1 certainly
think :it should be the policy of this city or anybody who wants to get their
.;core, that: we give them their score and they are entitled to receive th:Lt and
furthermore lthi.nk they are entitled, if they want to discuss it with somebody
who cart give them answers as to what it allmoans, to have that information,
i'rt't r, 1, :1 :1 l,eell hroc. rl,;ir,,, air_ Il :?,or t':.. fr.eeden of
pur.poaes of. ottr information
They are not: to be graded
never be returned to Miami.
0
information act, but '[. think it :is a metter of city policy that we would want to
do that anyway. is that the course we are ta':cin ?
Dr. Saunders: I can understand that, T. would syinpathiee with that and I
would also have to say, that in the process of working with the individuals
who participated in the validation study, we made it perforctly clear right
at the outset that this would be the policy, and that the information would
not be available to individuals, and that it would be our expectation that it
would take something like a supreme court decision to bring those individual
results to light.
Mayor Ferre: Are you in agreement with that Mr. Andrews?
Mr.Andrewst No, I don't, yes, I do, --and I don't. I think there is some
confusion here, and we are talking about two different things. Dr. Saunders
is asking questions on a particular area that you ask, initially, then Mr.
Mayor you went to another area talking about indiviauls and their exams,
Dr. Saunders has expressed to me and to Mr. Faulk and others a precise pro-
cedure in which any individual and the circumstances under which any individual
may receive his scores, and I wish you would elaborate on that because you are
of two different things.
Mayor Ferre: That is what I am talking about.
Dr. Saunders: I understood you were talking about the concurrent
validation results of last December.
Mr. Andrews: That is entirely different Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: You have a lot of these people that have taken the exam,
are they entitled to call you, or write you a letter and say I would like
to know what the test results were.
Dr. Saunders: Let's separate two groups of people. One group of people
consisting of 333 incumbent members of the police department who participated
in the validation study. The individual data for those exams are not available.
That :is what we said about those data before we got them.
Mayor Ferre: If you make that available and that becomes available
and that become available in the police department, people are going to
be earmarked, and that would he terrible. I think that would be a very
negative thing. You are not going to eliminate those policemen anyway based
on those tests, and therefore you shouldn't have names on them. I hope you
put numbers and tear up the master list.
Dr. Saunders: We arranged it so we could remove the names very quickly.
Mr. Andrews: Mat was the reason Mr. Mayor 1 answered yes and no. The part
to that is yes, those should not be returned, but the other part Dr. Saunders
will explain what information can be made available to the individual applicants.
Mayor. Ferre: Furthermore Mr. Andrews I think it is very important, this
is my personalopinion, that nobody including the police chief himself have
an available list where his can look clown and see what each individual policeman
who took that test, h cause ---tile: re is no question in my is ind that that could
prejudge nu awful lut of things and the police chief himself cannot fire somebody
because he happens to be a bnl typical policeman, i.n the department in accordance
with that Lest. 1 hope that: list i:; not available.
Mr. Andrews: That is the part Dr, Saunders was referring to when he
said :i t wasn't available.
Mayor Ferro: We arc not talking about that, `Milt wasn't the question.
The question i-:;, the people who took the test-,
1)r. Saunders: With respectto the 573 individuals who took the recruit
test on Jeneary 13, 14, and 15, it would be our recommendation and we would
certainly :support the logistics of this to mike available to each individual
the profile of results from one of the ei`;ht tests which actually produces
r t:r rn r: s ' t lv , t-..r�. a .ei Trr.
. ,�,' . , f; �,, � fi � ._-----------. ... � LY ;.) t:l. i) l:i_ -r i :; '3` 1 r1.1�_d.tt
thi e is a standard test which is wide ty lt::; Ci c _1d well known; has
high v;alidi cy in its own i ictht for e variety of purposes other
than the purposes for which we were using it. We could rake the
profiled on this test availebie to each individual, and I would
think it should be under_ in arrangement where that individual
could then take that profile to nny person or psychologist of
their choice for any further assistance they might desire in in-
terpreting. I think you do need to separate the matter of in-
terpreting such material from the matter of Making the kinds of
selection decisions that we have been into here.
Mrs. Gordon: Just some clarification of your format with
regard to the three separate aspects, the academic, validity and
temperament. Since you don't juet take them in that sequence;
you said you could take them in any sequence --do you give any
weighted scoring to any of the three factors.
Dr. Saunders: In effect they have equal weight because
you must pass each one. There is a different numerical passing
score for each one, which is related to the way in which that one
happens to be scored. So it happens on the academic scores that
a passing score is forty-six. It happens on the validity scale
that a passing score is a hundred forty-two, and it happens on
the temperament that a passing score is seventy, but those numbers
really don't mean anything except in relation to the way the num-
bers happen to fall from the scoring process.
Mrs. Gordon: And you give no credit to anyone who would
receive an exceptionally high score in any of the other two?
Dr. Saunders: 'There are two models that can be thought of
here. One is the successive hurdle model. which we have been ap-
plying. The alternative model is one in which we could allow
exceptional performance in one area to off -set performance in
another area; and we did not do that. It is our belief that this
could frustrate the intent of setting the academic screen at a low
level. It would also frustrate the intent of the validity screen,
because the scores that fail on that screen go all the way down
to zero; whereas the scores that pass on it don't get very much
higher than a hundred forty-two.
Hrs. Gordon: The reason for the cruestion is directed with
regard to tee experience of the public service aides, and the
coeePnt I heerd which regarded the incur beelt police officers;
the incidence of failure on the validity and on both of those
t-.c.o groans, and I wonder if there shouldn't be eorle reconsidera-
tion t:1.Cin itr1C� re -testing, 1:1_ Il_'C`t'n;ir"y, for t:hti13e whohi3V+? Ileac{ that
know.t_Itcj now. and i.Iforr` you di,J not 1-now np1:1:1rent Ly,
they t•;e.?"e ernreeed in with ii totel number of: itj.>',:)l icant'.;. Would
you consider der Chet n vel i_cl request?
?
Dr. Sat2rtder. 1 would crt einly coeeidar :it a request to
be investigated. 1•;y off the top gttes:i at its would be thet if
we .i.C)UTied et various models we could firid several alternatives
which would have roughly the some over-all impact, but would
have i.mpnct with regard to individuals. But 1 could ::suspect that•
we would not find tint the alternative ' ro ach would create a
a e i_tudtion in which the total picture would loo very much differ-
ent.
r
Mrs. Gordon: W-11 it !till both-both-ee rice a great deal to
think that on the academic score one could rate :;tiler:io.r and
then be knocked out on the validity or temperament, or merely
the validity, and that no credits are given for the superior
score. It just doesn't seem to me at all an understandable
situation.
Dr. Saunders: It is the case.
Mrs. Gordon: Especially with your own comment; your own
studies of the incumbent officers hearing out the same kind of
background.
Dr. Saunders: Well my comment on the incumbent officers
Would relate primarily to the validity scale. Iuould not gener-
alize that to the academic scale.
Mrs. Gordon: I recognize that, but I am speaking about the
failure of the validity on both and off -setting it with the ex-
tremely high academic on the PSA's. It just doesn't add up right.
Dr. Saunders; Well, if we were to do this the general
effect would be that over-all we would have a greater degree of
adverse impact against minorities, because we would be effectively
giving greater weight to the low scorers on the academic screen;
the ones that are just above the passing score of forty-six, and
we would fired ourselves, if we produced any kind of a rank order-
ing in which we allowed the academic to contribute to the weight
for the ranking, we would find that we would produce a register
that had almost no minorities on it, and this would frustrate some
values that we are supposed to be pursuing.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, I don't quite agree with you on that, but --
Dr. Saunders: Well, I am answering you from a technical
point of view, and I am sorry, but I don't know how I can put it
in other terms. It's a matter of how the numbers would fall, be-
cause of the way the numbers exist.
I•1rs. Pat Skubish: If I were to take a test, and I came out
so high academically --and of course I received the card that I
failed --how and where would I go, to 'Tri-Cultural: to find out
about my validity; to help them counsel tie? T'tho do I go to and
what area do they know? Does Tri-Cultural know where to counsel
me? In other words, I don't want to keep brushing alp ncademically
when :r failed the validity, or background or ternper:n!nent.
Dr. Sounders: I thin% know fro:n th .i.roup statistics
that none C)S. 'thr public C;orvic'e ii'L' s Ills .mild �1:20(tr�inic.;11:Ly, ,o
there is no need to qo ,171y'•.•/:1i?.rt) to learn t1t; t. Now, the Latter
of tht"-' validity scale is one that no7teone c;1:snot really brush up
for o'i hr?r than in terms of test taking attitudes, ;1s for r s 1
know. 1 would certainly suggest that it would be a reasonable
risk For. Troy of these individuals :;:!..iit,ly to re -take the teat.; that
from 1:iy c?:f,.ir:iin ation of the data there ere a. number of what I ' oul.d
c,")1.]. near 11:isses, where individuals .rls :rave '-;coed I1') very much be-
low t.1hl let*^l.`i that we had to sot as passing sco:: !?_s for the group
as a %'%1) o l e.
r7;. bi..n117 c1^iriE7 0:1 the ve idi!:y did
validity?
►
Dr, Saunders: Tsio hundred and sixty-four over all ► if we
apply the validity as the second r creen.
Ms. Skubish And the temperament was silty --six.
Dr. Saunders: The temperament was sixty-six. Within the
P.S.A. group those numbers are thirty-one and four. So again
within the P.S.A. group it is almost a sure bet that if someone
has failed it was on the validity. The odds are seven or eight
to one.
Sergeant Donald Printz: Dr. Saunders, do you think possibly
with regard to the P.S.A.'s that an individual who has been super-
vised for a period of one to two years that to corelate job ex-
perience with the validity study, that job experience is, as I
have always heard, is the best teacher? I think there has been a
statement alluded to you to the effect that after you met with the
civil service board you mentioned the fact that one or two years'
job experience could very easily and overwhelmingly be put in
place of a validity study.
Dr. Saunders: All right; I have to separate, at this point,
my personal views on this matter and the constraints that exist,
in this total situation, as I understand the situation. I do be-
lieve personally that the opportunity to observe an individual
for a period of a year or so is more productive of validity in-
formation and useful information than any five -hour test. This
is a correct attribution. However, operating within the constraints
of this situation, the commi•ttment that we have is to dial with
every individual of these five hundred and seventy-three in a con-
sistent way; and if I give weight to what I have just expressed
about my feelings with respect to this group of fifty, I am doing
something to the way I score the other five hundred and twenty-
three, which I find even more unacceptable.
Mr. Andrews: And I'd like to add to that an observation that
I have made for fear that ---- another whole series of problems
that we would just not be able to cope with. There are people in
an age group from twenty and a half to twenty-four years tat have
taken the examination that have not passed successfully that I
believe wouicl have measured up to the academic .requirements if
the age limit had been extended to twenty-four and they permitted
to become r.nbli.c service aides and participate in the same program;
so t•hile you are doing service Lo one group you are doing dis-
service to another, and I think Mr. Paulk agrees with me, and Dr.
:.a:lnd!?.r3 as Yell, th,it as it result of trying to solve one problem
�: C? e r n q') .r q to create another whole .`_ er i,?s of ")robicm3 that we
r:uiy not be F:,1 Lc to .i.i..'e with.
Sgt. 1.':;: nt ; - I'dul, that mi.cjltt 1,( tr. bat yet. I can only
7� i- �; t• ,.•;� 7 r...3" . hl 'a bow. a-'1�-an these
.�.Q(Z;. :i.,. 'j:3"1'? "fiiC:t tt".:] t. .. llial%� ci ..� i.r:l 'Gl �. �'t- ai1i,� i.c.-1 r i Il
%'ringg p op1o, and 1''v:it :( was a Itl^:r1'oer of tht:. board l•7h..'t1 this Pro-
gram wan iila,Igurclte ;i;2d Lt. Pa.Loi j�.^ at l rit 't. i.r:'s appeared bsfore
th — civil , 1"vice i3ior ra and 1.naica t'ed to me an'i the i n' erence
that I got at that time was that these p -opl = , the only thing that
they would 1,:c% would be age, .and that they would be screened in
the process that any other applicant for the police service would
have :1(':'n. T haves .iearned Since then that this is not true In all.
cases; that some were given a different screening process, but on
the oth'.�r band there were some who were ; ctua1l';' given a police
in -hiring examination; they went Ehrouggh .`.he various processes of
the rystein, such as background investigation, the medical and the
polygraph and that they have successfully passed all areas. It
was my understanding at that time that there Would be no need, as
I understood the cadet program that we had within the City that
these individuals also were attuned to the fact that they were dis-
crepant in some area, and I think it was the age in that particular
program, that they were put right into the process once they became
of age. This was the inference that I got. And personally, when
I sat there at the board, and I voted in the affirmative to be part
of this program, that I listened to Lt. Palomer present the program
to the hoard and I voted affirmatively, that this was my idea of
the program, or there really had been no need for it. We had a
Tri-cultural program that I think was subsequent to the P.S.A.
program, and between the two we were going to get the best quali-
fied people within the community based upon minority percentages,
or whatever they were going to do, but ultimately I think, of
those who successfully passed the examination process would be
the ones that we would take in to be the police officers, whether
it would be female, male, black, yellow or any other color, and
it just seems to me that we have wasted a lot of time and money,
and it seems to me that we have given a lot of hope to a lot of
people. When I listened about three years ago it was different to-
day than ghat I heard then. And I think very honestly, as far as
I am concerned, that these P.S.A.'s should not ever have had to
be re -tested; that they should have been taken right into the
system when they became of age; that the one or two years' exper-
ience that they had under close supervision of the Miami Police
Department, of which we have the same supervisors, in essence as
any other individual would have if they were not termed P.S.2 .;
that they come under constant scrutiny of the public; they come
under constant scrutiny of every supervisor within the depart-
ment that comes in contact with these people, and they should
not have had to take the re-examination process. This was my
intent when I voted yes for the inauguration of the program --and
I was only one of five --and I think this was the intent that others
on the Civil Service Board had at the time; and I'll tell you, it's
a lot different today than what I heard about three years ago, and
I am very sorry to see the predicament that these people are in,
and I think that the department itself could have weeded out the
ones that are undesirable; and I, Dr. Saunders. say that what you
have said personally, and that you cannot project officially, is
that experience of one or two years on the job under constant
police supe.rvi.c on is a hell of a damn site better thiin a validity
study Which flunked seventy-five per cent. o.;: the people.
.?:. S':uh.i sh. I')?: Saund(?r s, I don't ':now if 1: have the
.right. f.:i.gu'res 0Y not; but I i.•'ant to know ,c'ho dot-errn .ned, and fo:c
�ihat reason, t.hr pil3.;1rtj grade for the c :.:;,demle portion of the
Q::c)iTl. Was :i:orty-s.:.:� out. o E :) hundred land twenty questions passi. q
.� �•
s•
Dr. .`.ictLt?1aor.". That is passing; tieet ie correct.
me. S :i bish: Isn't that ebr,ut 'th .rty-2iyht prn: cent?
Dr, faunde.rs: Well, if you look at it in terms o E percentage
of num')er of queetioas that is taking no a:Iscount of: the difficulty
of the questions.
tI3. Skubish: But that's thirtLL'-•i.ght j.ea: cent. academically,
of the questions; right?
Dr. Saunders: Yes.
Ms. Skubish:- All right; high school and college requires
sixty to sixty-five per cent.
Dr. Saunders: Well, we again must look at the level of dif-
ficulty of the questions. I could set an examination with a
hundred and twenty questions that nobody got more than ten right
if I made it sufficiently difficult, and a passing score of nine
would be pretty good.
Ms. Skubish: Many of the police departments require a two-
year college degree and academic improvement. The university
exam was very low in academics, as far as this right here is con-
cerned --forty-six questions out of a hundred and twenty.
Dr. Saunders: Actually, in order to construct an efficient
test it is desirable to set the level of difficulty such that the
average question is gotten right by half of the group. In that
Fay each question yields the maximum a: -punt of information about
who can do well and who doesn't do as well. So sixty would be an
ideal number to have for the midpoint of our distribution; and
that's just about where it is.
Ms. Skubish: 1 was just wondering about the P.S.A.'s who do
cork about 'thirty-five hours a week and are considered temporary
employees. I don't know if 1 am in order because I am a novice
at this, but could a resolution, or something, be pissed in order
to give the P . S . J . ' s bonus points, like that given to full-time
:.city employees who are veterans.
Dr. Saunders: Let me respond to that in this way. Only in
the occasion where one is entitled to veteran's preference, or to
departmental preference under the Civil Service Rules is that ap-
plied at the time that one passes an examination, and it is never
applied to make one pass. The five points, or ten points, prefer-
ence that a veteran is entitled to never ever makes one pass.
1 know they never have, but 1 was just wondering whether
they Could consider something alone these lines in working with
the department.
Mr. Andres: May I assist there? We have examined so many
alternative; and have tal'..ed about just that; giving preference to
the public service rides to see if there is some way of deviating
from what w•a had been doing in the past to assist then, and WO
find this jlrob.L(. i1: Let's assu:ge we ciid that and we integrated
fifteen additional p.1J.i.ic service iii:?'ems, and let's !.ay they were
integrated so that, there are n 1111n0.17ed and :I:i :: now and th ?v were
integrated in :;uch a way that the .)';:to::I five people on th:r existing
register reii?_?1.n.1 c S the bottom five u . ople, :-Gla now a person who is
number one hundred anrt one now ends up around :1 li;111c1rt-d and twenty.
If we find at tho end of they yirar. if we find that: this register is
terminated and Y E:a.11 b as candidates ther. e , tlicaii c•; t create a problem --
and help tie on this, Mr, P aulk--we create a problem in that those
people that were certified as a hundred and six at t:CAs point now
have been relocated, and they stand less ch:uice of filling a vacant
position then someone that: cce 11:IVe 1 ntorjra ted in a formula that we
have devised tr) assist them,
Ms. S7lub'Lsh: It's 'Just: that: whet the Mayor has indicated,
with all the letters I am Cure 't:het. h Ma!or has received; I have
received numerous letters, memos and 'telephone calls, and 1L just
is very disheartening to us where seventy-five per cent, have
filed; because we have the Tri-Cultural Program, and it just doesn't
seers to be working. Maybe that's my --well, I know that is not just
my own point of view, but it just seems like it doesn't seem to be
working, because where do they go from here? And from the memos
that I have received some of these candidates were really astronom-
ical. Mr, Mark S. Perre; is he here? Ferra?. And two years of
college and several languages; maintaining a three, point, five
average, and demonstrating ability under strrkt supervision, I just
cant see --I could see if we got one memo, two memos, a couple of
`phone calls, but from the`majority of the P.S.A.`s--and I was not
that involved with the P.S.A.'s program we are really concerned
about that..
Dr. Saunders: May 1 offer a way to look at this that might
not seem so difficult to live with as saying seventy-five per cent.
failed. That is an appalling way to look at it. It would seem to
me that I would look at this andsay about twenty per cent. have
passed; about twenty per cent. have failed, and the other sixty
per cent. have not provided us with sufficient information to al-
low us to evaluate their credentials through the test. And that
is the meaning of the validity screen.
Ms. S'•cubish: If I took a test, as I stated before, and I
failed academically I would go out end brush up academically. I
would study like cry and go hack there and take that e:cam all
over again. But how do they know where to pass the validity?
How do they know what to study? How do they know how to get
better temperament? I don't understand. I, myself, just do not
understand how people out there, iJ. S . A. ' :s , or whatever --and I am
really not just putting my focus and attention toward the P.S.A..
I am putting myself in the place as taking an exam, and I know
1 am pretty smart; I am going to pass that academically, but how
in the world am 1 going to take an exam and pass the validity. I
want to know where to brush up. Where do I go? To Tri-Cultural?
Where do I go? What do you tell these people out here; you are
great academically, but your validity, your temperament ---
Dr.. Seuaders : Well, there are two pa.i is to this. If we are
talking about the temperament screen, then what we are saying is
th;lt there is not mi.ich you can do, an:1 i:hat the prol,,er approach
to 'tihi.:. is to look and find whet it is that you con Co. I:t_ we are
iooki.iicj at the validl.tt' ;screen then what vesaying i.s, try
, nre �7y.1i1
atlt?:I. rl, ;Ind ili'!.iiroach t:h.:'. ic.st. wl.t:!t D Sc ' i ,'It. di f!:e.reniz :f.r ara? of
1itin,-1 Do Lo what tenting is it1:out: i•i-ybe it is aJ i?la'tC.e 'r of luck and
m ayl)a it 1 .: not a Liatii-er of 11'iCri', ;)2.t ir'ji?l f eee Ln in a t•1oj•r:tlwh.( to
r t:rc la. .[. r` tJ,l you !t ii(.t t t..�.t�• ( n .� .•1 a
'•�i} 4(.i. .y � it•.":� a � . -;��r7 2:, 't• 1
`.k, t s �. . ? r ' n Sz -�r.. 1 L I cnn st... t.
J;:tl.).L:��'J: .(./( Ut.li.. [.).'l''1.�, i) ��rf1.i:"ttlt.t_.,, �'+�lrlt. �-+
is that f''ity:.:r? ;;eme of these rl••l )licriilts, lt.S.A.'s,)1,`ive 'tri.ed to
think about the itt1:3(Jr.':i s that: care toster wanted, and therofore, did
not answer the way they I'lo"Cmally '..(.)i11d ha'•.-.
j)r, Sa.und )r: ; I think this is a fall.- statement.
Mayor Ferro: rc: 111.1 rieht, we are a.11i1eiel oct c)-_ t:1.ree here. It
is almost Lwe ve thirty and elon/ oF es 11:_!'1,:' e 11!C3:111'Gii ent.S that; muse
1)e kept, :;O let's see if we caa w.ind. uj' Lh:is work :session, and we
may need iaru)ther one in the future,
Are there any other questions on the part of tiie Commission
or members of the Civil Service Board?
No response.
Mayor i'erre: A111 right; net is Dr. Moral, if you want to
ask some questions or make a statement.
Dr. Moral: I wanted to make a couple of comments, and will
try to make it as fast as I can. I, first of all, wanted to state
that the Tri-Cultural Program is a program designed to help any
and all candidates in preparation for the entrance exam through
the police academy. I specifically wanted to go back to the
number 29 that was mentioned; that we had assisted for the last
examination; and this figure happens to be sixty-two. The figure
could be derived based upon the applications that we have sent
to the Civil Service Board, but many of the persons that we as-
sisted not only signed up at Tri-Cultural, but some signed up at
Civil Service and after that participated in the instructional
classes, and therefore, the number sixty-two. I want to also state
that the Tri-Cultural Program is as dedicated to helping the Miami
Police Department find qualified candidates. That's what we are
all about. We Cio not support the notion that any candidate, simply
because he ilppl:i.es, should become a Miami Police Officer. I wanted
to :,et that kind of straight. I a lr,o wanted to have Mrs. Levitan
make a brief presentation based upon some of the candidates that
appear on the register of a hundred and six. We have had an
opportunity to, over a period of months, to watch these candidates.
We have come up with some conclusions of our own about the compe-
tence of these particular individuals. We would like to share that
with you. Obviously because we have worked with the candidates
very closely we have developed some feelings regarding these can-
didates. We feel that these observations ought to be shared with
you. I'd like :Lrs. Levitan to do that rather quickly, after which
I'd like to make a brief comment about the success of the Tri-
Cultural Program.
Mrs. Levitan: First I' d like to point something out that
came up before in the meeting, and it is the fact that we did our
r:?ain training :i.r aci demics. The reason for this is that first of
all we caxlnot train people in the psychological area. We can elao
waste our time by pro -toting people in the psychological area,
ae:1 :c' i.1 tell you lea, Let's y t1et we y i. ve them 1 peych
ological
perfect tc`;�t i,,:1:w they comeC)il't wonderfully il:lj.l:it.r?(1, a I:i.?' t;,o17C11Ctc1i;C'.,
in cur op:i.nio:'l, but Ui. t doesn't heppeIl to it;iltch he pr"o%i1C?
Irta ,( ' �. ri 1 , t 1
C:111::�7,..J0 ?� Init 1JC)1.1.�':e t::7t1C1.l.C.l:at:i.=. �'�: 1;�L'C+ C) � l 'pia l'/ilil�. �: lilt
l. ycli )J.o:f.1.Cn 1 1:,,:of.ila ie. So we cannot te1.lti oae Ci?11c1id ates. you
do 7' i:. hop en to be 't11e pnycholoe1.t,i11 j?T oepec:t t.!'L _1't we went. In
other S• erCI.i, it could 1:.e r;o.naleec1y who weees C_j.Coon SOC1i3 and hue
ten children l•:ho I ii!%es the best police o ': Leer; I con't knO;T. So
I ae not going to do ghat kind of ju:1g r nt. First of all, I eon't
think it is 1c:u,al, If I" am correct, :[ think We have Lo use the
C . vi.1. Service Rules to pro -screen ri3'::3ici 1''<ls, `t"1 t11rit is it. Isn' t
that correct, 1'r.. Panik
Mr. Pa ulk: Thts is C•i:l tL .1 hav3 aclvt oect Dr. Moral nnl
his staff, as well as the advisory committee, of which the Commis-
sion each has a delegate serving on that council; That We cannot
preclude from consideration one who meets the requirements o1
Civil Service or of state statute wherein they are a citizen of
this country to be on applicant to be considered for police officer
and they are a high school graduate, and that's just about the
criteria, and we cannot by design exclude those from taking the
examination for police officer of the City of Miami so long as
they live within the City of Miami as a resident. So those are
the three criteria that are required, and we cannot deny anyone
from taking the examination who meets that.
Mayor Ferre: We are missing the practical point. I think
what she is saying and what is being discussed here is simply
this; that if the University of Chicago is going to use the
criteria which is going to eliminate a person other than in the
actual testing, academic testing, there is no way in the world
in which the Tri•-Cultural Committee, or any other committee, or
group, can prepare people to pass an attitude or psychological
test.
Dr. Saunders: That's correct, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: We may as well get that over with quickly
somewhere along the line, so you won't be wasting people's time
spending months and months and going at night and on week -ends
boning up on work einen there is just no way they are going to
pass anyway.
Mr. Pauik: Air. Mayor, it is a very valid assessment that
Mrs. Levitan has made with regard to the question that you posed.
Testing of someone psychologically and making some determination
as to whether they are well suited for certain things is one
thing, but in so far as the profile that is generated by the pro-
duct of the University of Chicago that one to be considered should
possess a certain temperament, and to give the City of Miami,
either the City Manager, the Civil Service Bolyd, the City Commis-
sion, the Police Chief, or provide that sort of information to the
'r'ri-Cultural through any of those agencies would be to give the
key away to the examination, and to give the key away would be
giving some preference in which one would be able to define par-
ticular answers w.i.th r•egarcl to a particular battery of tests
that a.ro i.r' Ong. ndiinisterecl.
!layer Fc'r..rc : Doi)by, I am not talking a':)out g1.ving the i`:ey
away. 11.1..E i NM ayin'J is i if you aro goin'. to test them why don't
you go a'1..a,d and give them at the inceptioA the psychological test.
You are Joi.;I(j it_o) test them a:i21_? :y'd,a', aren't you': You r:1ii_jiiL as t•::1i
do) itin tili' 1J_:'ij_ln:1'is1Cj 'ntlier th::):1 at 1:.h3 c,Y1:1 is all :L pm r iyinq.
:l.'t, is al si malt.'. i.p,:oceiktr i).L Ii:;lttc`r. 3f you a1 going Co (j .?? ►)(Op1
tests, y:,u ought to put them 111t:gn4t4r' give it to the:l .i.
aP.d th . rt say, look., follow or lardy, you clr just: 113t going to make
i L :ICI thi're is no use you rpending :he next four months booting
your 3)ra1:i.ns out trying to bone up on something that you are not
go-ing to t11::e anyway.
Dr. Saunders: U , I can appreciate t i. iL. and perhaps t_iiat
approach could be consummated in that p' ole who are Wanting to
apply be given "the psychological portion to be submitted to the
University o E Chicago, so that the key is not: released
and they drake a determination as to whether one should be,
should be encouraged to continue participation in this proce-
dure.
Mrs. Levitnn: But then we would be wasting the time of
let's say two hundred and sixty-four candidates who are also
going to be screened on the basis of the validity of their
exams, so it is not only the temperament that counts, the
validity also So you are saying also just do the validity
screening at the beginning.
Mayor Ferre: That's correct; because if we are going to
keep the validity test and things like that I think it is only
fair that we tell the potential candidates, 3ook, you are just
not suited, in our opinion, to be a policeman or a policewoman;
and they say, well 1 have got a ninety-seven test with I•1etro.
Well, fine, then go down and become a policeman with Metro.
But I think it is only fair that we approach it that way and
give these people the break in the beginning rather than put-
ting them through the misery of studying and having their
hopes up and then there is nothing there at the end of the
rainbow. If you are going to say that there is a pot of gold
you had b,?tter )t least leave a couple of coins there.
Mr:;. LoviLan: OK, let me as;: what I was going t.o really
talk about in the beginning. the academic aspect of this test.
I have to question a little bit the validity of the academic
screening that has been crone, and legit me tell you why I am
questioning this. I tend to disagree, from the kind of figures
that I have here on candidates that I have pre -tested who
passed the exam and who also :Failed the exam, and I art compar-
ing these figures. It seems to me that the standards for
academic achievement have been lowered somewhat, and let me
tell you why. I gave candidates a Stanford test of academic
skills in reading and in English, and this tells me what kind
of reading level they have, at what grade level, and what kind
of Engli:lh level they have. There are twenty-six people on
that register who "took this test, and these are the results of
tiJat test. Out of those twenty-six only nine are reading at
thu twelfth clrade level. The Uf1C= ;`, l..�.nttr1 are readinu
nelo,,, i3 't::.t r::i1 cjCi1de level. Thin co.1:i area to the applicants
t-
who "Fai.leci the e.taminz tion. i'irst, 1, t•. me tell you that can.^.
U) L]) )t: r.egis el: scored at._ r' ----- Ui Wit_'\r1a12, %::hie17
:Ln v_.`rN., r;t}(,.].. .Li, is abov? nil.° 't:'.Y:Lf'til :L(_'v:?:L, but. L'J?: t
ati =i th: hiiih.st score. . aYC'.F1:i I il''v;: a:!.., ;:a.,'11C0'1t3 4i'10
Lh a t
fait .c'•' 1 ( i t• civil '.:CVT�'? l'.�!:ctl1 iC_laJ .,-1() .:it.L.tC't.t at Lit:a alcli.h!)'
talto or 't:h::.l :�;cocin t a t Y t:•}' very ' •iT t.
� to:),
.a .. C.;.:n. . .',lc tt.;
ULi _. f):i ' ", v
i a i..i.r.:,i \;i.) "Lno'.i '1h1L i:a: l` :Lc 1Lra tt:!:ii: Uri!: ;!1i1 La :Lai:Ll? J ,.,)out.
thirty-four had is tt•; Lft it (Jail:1 re,':t:1:2^ .�
�: .ta: �L'1 U�: tI'Lcj;le'C. :•!_)riy
of t h.: i. in,)'C.Lti es in my Ci.Z1 is have is 2l:i' 1)r. r t !1 tw.,:.1rthi,
rC_'iail !.n.I .t °'•1 c' i, and they couicl ii.'ivt-? Coal it and I hate to dis--
rjr,.. ' with Lids idea "Lhti: if we raised t!e aacad,-.mtc sta:ldards
1:e v':)}il_tl;l t .t ('1ouu!lt ttl111O:"ir. o:; ',? 1O t:.ou1d i' a e it. :f. don't
think so. From what .[ have seen in itty cl_eeeeS we have plenty
o f minorities who have E) ty'..i. FLh gcnle rC!adi lg level eor .r
better,
tc � ,
and have vet good educational 1)ac'rcgro ,nc1s. Th;� other Foil,{
that I wanted to make is regarding the validity screening. It
seems to me that what Chicago is saying, in terms of the purpose
of their exam, is they wan"; to predict a high or low probability
of SUCCeS5 on the job.' what this third step is doing is sup-
posedly predicting the wash -out rate on the rest of the selection
process. That is why they sty that maybe this time only twenty-
five per cent. will he washed out as opposed to fiffy per cent.
on the last register. My question is how is it possible that
thirty-one of the P.S.A.'s who have already been through that
selection process failed in this validity screening process
which is supposed to predict their ability to pass the rest of
the selection process?
Mayor Ferre: I'll try to explain it to you. What we
said, and said about three or four different times and kept
coming back to it, is that it seems quite obvious that the
public service aides are psychologically geared up to condi-
tion their answers in a certain way which is prevalent in
their training in the Police Department, and obviously what
they are geared up to do is contrary to what is expected in
the psychological and in the validity testing procedure of the
University of Chicago. Therefore, in other words, if you
want to call it brain washing; if you want to call it psycho-
logical preparation or prompting, or attitude promotion;
Vhhat hnpoens is that they are geared to a certain attitude
which iscontrary to the way the Lest '.s su;,posed to come
out. So there is no question that they are predisposed to
failure; no way they could pass. If you are told every day
that when you walk into a room you click your heals, and
you clo that for five years, or two years, or two months, and
then somebody has an adverse reaction to the clicking of heals
and that fails you in a certain way, you can't blame the per-
son for failing if that's what the criteria is for the test.
Mrs. Lcvitan: Yes, fir. Mayor, you are talking about
temperament now. The validity simply deals with whether
these people have answered truthfully about themselves or
not, and I believe that these P.S.A.'s who are up for the job
would not be foolish enough to try to kicl the examiner on that
test. 1 don't believe that two hundred and sixty-four people
on that tc'f;t tried to kid the examiner, frankly.
Mayor Ferre; But the point is that you are prr.snp;Josing
Fl 3C)I' of f:il:Ll'i•_j:i that Jeu iT:2i.1 f don't ;:t?r7:J, !Jecil.ua•� for you to
rc 3 is}' t]?l:t{ r.1•Cond the whole process you would; llt.ti l-ier O?13, have
to 'C coil ? 0;:011. which .E a ssnna you :cave not ; ooa 1t??:nb r
you would, Le -;ides .. 'crir:C.j the C•':ul, ha'i to u.la, -:;t 1n(1 ‘,hat.
p;L oq r ammed into -the Ci)i i'it?� ', as a
you know, h3 oily �.'h it peee inq end .1:i1.ili it j i:, , i)11.1 t•7e Clod' L
know that. :it isn't ;juet a---:i: i'.lo'.;:.': :i.i we-; a 3.I_a'p1e th i
you se. But 1•.:iv somebody s:,ys :1:'CI rather L. au il:li."1121C' pilot
rather tho l a carpenter, or whi)tevec i.L 'is; it isn't th.et ode
ziion-"'•, it is that ono plUS a hundred and fifty other questions,
anq the pattern of tha way these thiii js are ;>t'" i ng i) 1.':wrod,
you !•:noL•;.
Mrs. Levitan: Well, anyway, y':i ,"i;y back to the academic,
it does co lcern ale that this is ha, -pacing, arrcl 1 wash that for
the next c" :am the acid mLc standards i will ha raised s0 that we
don't have any people passing that are reading at a sixth to
seventh grade level, and there are some; not many but there
are some. I would :Like everybody to be reading at least at a
tenth grade level to twelfth grade level. I don't think that's
too much to ask. There are plenty of minorities that could
have made that level. If you Want any figures on this I'll
he glad to provide you with some.
Mayor Terre: I would like very much to have copies of
that, and I am sure the rest of the Commissioners would, be-
cause it was our understanding, you know, the average --I just
got this and I read it, but it is not all inside yet--the-,--
(reading) to be a successful Miami police officer the applicant
would have to read at approximately the tenth grade level, be
slightly introverted and have been employed as a driver, mech-
anic, security guard, and some other non -skilled or semi -skilled
labor. Now my question is; you are now saying that those that
passed the test, some of them passed with a sixth grade reading
level?
Mrs. Levitan: Sixth to seventh grade. There are two or
three people in that category that I have tested. I don't
know every one of them.
Mayor Fr. re: Anal yet it candidate for a PhD ---
Mrs. Levi Mil: That's what I am Saying, Mayor. That's
a problem. You see, I don't have trouble at the academy. I
already went through this with the previous registers. Ym
trying to prevent this kind of thing from happening again. I
ant not saying that's a majority of their; I am just saying that
there are a few like that.
I'Iayor Ferre: Let me ask you this: Are we --and perhaps
I should be asking the University of Chicago --are we elimin-
ating people because they are overly qualified? We are not
doing that, are we? We are not saying that just because some-
body happens to speak five languages, or has some real excep-
tional qualifications, we are not saying, well, you might he
better off being a doctor. I mean we are not approaching that,
are t?e? If a person wants to be a policeman, ; nd he ca'a also
be an T'•LD. , but he just wants to be a polici?!;rru , we not
saying) tth:i t ---we are not eliminating him, are we?
Dr. Saunaerr.: If we can see Cro ct the temperament :icr_een
that he hos a reasonable chance of being .`..uccr";iful a::i c police -
mall, :it is not going to i`:.itter tI'."i .' C'�._.:� ..,,.:,Lii .�.i1;? to, be.
r4ayl)s:• .j' er,7ro: J uLl1: bi'(.i?:l:ia t a
ct <;t14 :i.� sa.; a_.r--r.ftr_�lii:i., cl :Ana
con get a PhD in 1i.1_o•Logy, that doesn't l'it.;r't that t' ! D170 auto-
maticalIv :;Lra.i:.i;7g I1irl1 out as a. poliC,eon.
Dr. Saunders: Not automatically, but. I would guess there
could he a negative trend thre; ,not for that reason.
Mayor i'errt. : You :lee, ..'itui, ( P.'tii . Andrews) that's where
the questions come out or all. this.
Dr. floral: I'd lake to just finalize the comments that
l started to make earlier, and I think that certainly if per-
sons were at the beginning of a program given psychological
as well as other screening, .leaving mostly the academic
screen to be dealt with, I do feel that the Pri-Cultural Pro-
gram can be a greater success in working with candidates. I
wanted to make that comment.
Mayor Ferre: Ilow many people --we spent three hundred
thousand dollars --how many people have actually been through
the program; in and out?
Dr. Moral: About a thousand people.
I•Iayor Ferry: How many of those one thousand, which
means tie t we spent three hundred dollars per individual that
came in. Now how many of those actually survived beyond just
the initial --how many went to take the test, of the thousand?
Dr. Moral: For the first one it was about two hundred.
Mayor Ferro: Well put them all together.
Dr. Moral: About seven hundred.
i•iayor rt-rre: Seventy per cent. actually lasted that
long.
Mr. Andrews: D c . Moral does not have the figures before
him. I can tell you that it is nine hundred and thirty between
the two exams.
Dr. Moral: You talk about the :people who actually par-
ticipated in exams ---
Mayor Ferre: Now, how many of those actually made it?
Dr. :oral: Well, from the start, of course, we didn't
have registers that we had helped to generate, so what we did
was to p.icl: up persons that were already on registers that had
been established, and thr_'re were sc):le si-•van ty--five people that
::e E:';:)r:eC1 wi't.'h
flavor I' c.r. re . Well, answer P.ty question Zlow. out o f thc'
t:llotr.;a cl, il':)t! i my vie ilct l'.al ly \•11.1"i1 a uni.co..rrt on
way
Dr. I o nl.: .I. lh)UI.d, :iy il:inet' -c_. j 1t.
Fi'rZ'C.' . Arid how (titrly a..inhi_ r C. C c... on t tIt:. _. Ir
Dr, Nori71..: Ten, with i nothc.r
it;)yos' Porr.e: Sn itis a h?:t'1:ired 1tii: thirteen out oi- a
t:11Cn13an!i that, at this stage of the ua::e, ore on th:.'1r. wLiy. Now
we don't kno)T.i how many will be once we i:tar't aJ'linq . How many
1
L) t)
Tri-GUltural members took the ex-ela?
Mr. Andrews: This particular yearrive hundred and
fifty-one,
Dr. Moral: Five hundred and fifty -on,- were recruited:
three hundred and fourteen out of that,
Mayor Ferre: Ilow many of them passed?
Dr. Moral: Sixty-two.
Mayor Ferre : So in addition to the hundred and thirteen
we have got sixty-two who might make it.
Dr. floral: Right.
Mayor Ferre: And there are sor,-e two hundred and fifty,
or plus, that tried and didn't pass the exam.
Dr. Moral: Right.
Mayor Ferre: How, any other questions? Commissioner
Gordon has had to leave and Commissioner Reboso has had to leave,
and I have got to leave ---
Mr. 'Paulk: fore you leave, Lft% Mayor, I do have one,
and it is•a very important owl?stion, and it deals with the subject
of gathering some data in the form that Dr. Saunders exposed to
us, to be al.7,1e to advise applicants as to the reason why they
are not on this register, and I think we need a firm answer that
data of some nature will be provided to the city so that the
people who do not appear on this register as being qualified will
have access to that material.
Mayor Ferre: I thought that was clear. I asked that
question.
Mr. Paulk: All right, it has been proposed, and I just
want to make sure that Dr. Saunders is going to. We can assume
that will occur. So that will b2 available and it will be based
on---
1,1Dy0a: VC!r..170: Tit' answer is ye:;. Isn't that riqht, Mr.
Audrow5?
+.7 S n , 1.al!. •i , LyOUL--
Z.1111:1 11: 011 Fan: )F1 1: 1:1-icTq
POt tOld y-1a17. Tft, opoi
viql1 h0 s;4f-eidnt t9
flr. mo ;Thyor.ih
will bo no cirado, no score; it will be on
Mayor Forre: 1 Uua.:'i st nd. In other words, v one -pee
analysis. or one paragraph. or Is it vorbal analysis, or what?
Mir. Paulk: There will be a vocational interest expose,
is vih a t
Dr. Saunders: I think what we were proposing was to
provide on an individual basis the results of the vocational
interest test, which was part of the battery. This Wol.tld apply
to each individual, returning to that individual important in-
formation about themselves that care from the battery, but that
would not contain in and of iteself a reason for passing or
failing. Now, in addition we could provide some group results
of the nature that we have been describing here this morning
relating to reasons, but we are not proposing to produce reasons
for individuals.
Mayor Terre: t think we have got three things here.
One: the individual rights of people to know from government
as to why decisions are made. Now how far we go along on that;
and 1 think legally, Mir. Lloyd (City attorney) has to look at
how we are affected by new Federal legislation on that right to
know act. That's the first thing. The second thing is I think
we need to know —because this is a learning process for us, too --
we need to know what we have dole wrong --and 1: ant sure there are
mistakes --so that we can avoid these mistakes in the future I
think thirdly, we also need to do what is right. If --you made a
very important statement about if these tests were given again
many of these people would probably pass --you follow me --on the
question of validity. That bothers t:Ne, because that means there
are a lot or. people who really should have passed who didn' t
pass for varying circumstances, including the P.S.A.'s and other
people in the Tri-Cultural Program, and what that implies, then,
is that we are not being just. That in effect, because of the
way we went about, it there are people who really ended up becom-
ing victims of circumstances; that if you would give them another
crack at it would probably pass it. That bothers me.
Mr. Paulk: Mr. Mayor. let me say this: We do have a
hundred and six people who are on the register for consideration
to be employed as police officers, and obviously people can take
the test again on the next occasion that it should be adminis-
tered.
Mayor 1''erre: flow afro the people going to wait? You
have already told me that it •:is Going to a ;.. yeclr hafore th:7re
is going t:r, i','artothr test.
Ilr. Panik: That prob ol)ly is eorcac.t.
.
I•�r7 rC�.: :::%-? :;.7o : You know, Ut:: S. i are all " 'I : e
tht)t arc kind of. tictariug up to
nr. 1'nul.l;• 1. u:laar stand 'th 4:, flr. I,;.,yoC - but eve,T ono,
cJ11'?thee it h;1j)pc1n3 to be a c.J:CO:tj) o _ public service ai..dos or
,
to be tha ctppl:il:)ant 1.oc)Tt] J for a job as a police officer, t00%
it u:'t'le r the S:tt;le circus tilnc•7s, ,i ]Rt? conditions, aria to rr;1L t
one of tha public,. service aides to • - -a mot., take } :r. �. cry. � �3:1c, ta.,.c: this E:oa L:
aad re-;:;;; the value of that individual with di:E f rent criteria
o. the soi e criteria, lend bec:luie now this validity question is
answered by the individual and now the?,are eppro;tching the ad-
ministration of that test, and the taking. of.it with a different
principle in their minds it a touchy situationto do it for a
group of public service aides and not do it fo.r all, and it is
riot desirable to do it for all. You have got a hundred and six.
that tze can reasonably refer.
Mayor Fer're: All right, but that still doesn't answer
these three points that I have pointed out. One, the individual
rights of people who have a right to know what they did and how
far we can go in telling them why they didn't make it; two,
learning from our mistakes., What was wrong with the series of
tests so that we can avoid those same mistakes next time around.
And are we approaching this right? Is our profile right? Is
what they are saying a policeman ought to be --do you agree, Mr.
Andrews? Does the Chief agree? Are we in agreement as to what
we define as the average policeman, the median? That's the
thrust of that one. And the third one is the rights of people
who may have passed this exam and failed because of circumstan-
tial conditions. The attitude of, well, maybe if we took it
again we would pass it. Well, by Cod, if they tttke it again
and pass it then we ought to --they have got rights, too, as a
group. I am not talking about the people who clearly are not
qualified to be policemen or women; I am talking about the group
who have been eliminated from this validity battery. Now --and
that al o hits o lot o1` 3mplications. I understand what Mr.
Peulk io saying; and (that he is really s yiag, :Ln effect is,
look, you only got so many openings. The fact is that if you
use the hundred and six you are still not going to be able to
fill the openings. And that goes back then, Mr. Andrews, to
the five questions that I have asked today. I have read over
your memorandum, which was given to me last night, dated March
the sixteenth, and your memos of February twentieth and I4arch--
I'd like to point out to you that in five paragraphs here you
say they will be answered today, and many of these things have
not been answered today. So I would like to respectfully request
that the administration again address itself to my February 20th
and March llth memorandums, and to the five additional questions
that I have asked, plus others that have been asked today, and
that we have another session whenever you thirt it is aeoropriate;
and Lit one, I hoee, wo will have a session where we would come
Co some cot1-Ausi ons. This is n workshop sc's, sion. I hopz next
t::I.1:1e we can coev up with some c•i.`L'fini tiv' answers.
�cltliC':� and gentiem, I am sorry that I won't be able to
c t-tati , becialts - 1 alr,? ely a 'Bill :lour ].;1i:t:• a)r ctno T:ht r I'1%':-Ling
odd 1. haw) Lo EJf l 11ut t is !.`(..if;I 'i "(? :L L.• welcome 'L
i!nl orik any Cii&e:iti.oi:i that you Cln..•t'tthin% vTorQ c(.)' Orr?fl; .`?c)
:1.s all your:a.
Titcollpon t hc..
),,,:nw.! Ott 1: 0 l o' c:1oc7:C
fI . D . 5 01 f`_i'; r.;