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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1977-11-10 Minutes1TY OF 1VIIAMI • TES OF MEETING HELD ON November 10, 1977 PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK CITY HALL RALPH G. ONGIE CITY CLERK INCEX CI1YtCOhMiSSiq'J OF h�1-iMF FLDRIDA ITII'l NO SUBJECT 1. PROPOSED CHANGE OF ZONING-BRICKEI..L AVE. AT SE 25TH ROAD FROM -5A to R-5-WITHDRAWN: 2. CHANGE IN ZONING 25 N.W. 34TH STREET FROM R-2 to C-5: gOLUTION I OR 1PAGE NO. 3. CHANGE IN ZONING-4101 N.W. 7Th STREET FROM C-4 TO GU: 4. APPEAL DENIAL OF VARIANCE -THINK REALTY -REMODELING 2911 LUCAYA STREET -DEFER: 5. PROPOSED CHANGE OF ZONING -REQUEST BY DR. JACK SEITLIN 6. PROPOSED CHANGE IN ZONING- R-1 TO R-CA 2100 S.DINIE HIGHWAY: 7. CONDITIONAL USE -PLANNED UNIT NATURE -AT 3.51 SW 29TH AVENUE-ANTONIO FERNANDEZ: 8. PROPOSED CHANGE OF ZONING-2100 S. DIXIE HIGHWAY: DEFERRED TO DECEMBER 15: 8726 8727 M-77-894 R-77-895 16 17 - 24 L MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA * * * On the loth day of November, 1977 , the City Commission of Miami, Florida met at its regular meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami, Florida in regular session. The meeting was called to order at 7:15 o'clock P.M. by Mayor Maurice A. Ferre with the following members of the commission found to be present; Commissioner Manolo Reboso Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr. Mayor Maurice A. Ferre Absent: Vice -Mayor Gibson. Mrs. Gordon ALSO PRESENT: Joseph R. Grassie, City Manager R. L. Fosmoen, Assistant City Manager George F. Knox, City Attorney Ralph G. Ongie, City Clerk Matty Hirai, Assistant City Clerk A motion to waive the reading of the minutes was introduced and seconded and was passed unanimously. 1. PROPOSED CHANGE OF ZONIVG--BRICKELL AVENUE AT SE 25TH ROAD -FROM R-SA to R-5 -G,ITHDRAbN: Mayor Ferre: The applicant is withdrawing his application. Does anybody have any objections, or want to say anything about that? That is done, and those of you here on item 5A & 5B can go home, and have a nice evening. Is Rose Gordon comingtcnight? Does anybody know? Mrs. Gordon is not in the building? It's 7:15.- Is there anybody who wants to be heard by a three -person commission? Mr. Plummer: I'll volunteer to go home and call the meeting off. Mayor Ferre: You'd better not. how about item 2. Is that a hot issue? Mr. Fosmoen: There is some controversy. There was a split vote on the Zoning Board. NOTE: Commissioner Gordon entered the meeting. Mayor Ferre: Rose here's where we stand. Father Gibson has to be at Plymouth Coneregationa] CDurA for a service for Dr. Seeman. I understand he is cording back when he finishes the service. I'imagine that most of these hot items that people a full commission before they make the pre- sentation. That is true I would assume without even asking about 1. Mr. Plummer: Three and four are second reading. 2. CHANGE IN ZONING-25 N.W. 34T"ri SnLET FROM h-2 TO C-5: Mayor Ferre: Let's hear No. 3. Mr. Plummer: It was a second reading Mr. Mayor. As far as I am concerned, 1 Father Gibson is absent. I voted for it before. I'll move it this time, Mayor Ferre: For the record, who are you? Mr. David Cernes: M; name is David Cernes. I am attorney for the applicant, George W Peace and Company. AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED - AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 6871, THE COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE FOR THE CITY OF MIAMI, BY CHANGING THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION OF LOTS 27 AND 28, BLOCK 7, WYNWOOD PARK (5-23) BEING APPROXIMATELY 25 N.W. 34TH STREET, FROM R-2 (TWO FAMILY) TO C-5 (LIBERAL COM- MERCIAL); AND BY MAKING THE NECESSARY CHANGES IN THE ZONING DISTRICT MAP MADE A PART OF THE SAID ORDINANCE NO. 6871 BY REFERENCE AND DESCRRIPTION IN ARTICLE III, SECTION 2 THEREOF; BY REPEALING ALL ORDINANCES, CODE SECTIONS, OR PARTS THEREOF IN CONFLICT; AND CONTAINING A SEVERABILITY PROVISION Passed on its first reading by title at the meeting of November 10, 1977 was taken up for its second and final reading by title and adoption. On motion of Commissioner Plummer, seconded by Commissioner Reboso , the Ordinance was thereupon given its second and final reading by title and passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Mr. Plummer, Mr. REboso, Mrs. Gordon and Mayor Ferre. NOES: None. ABSENT: Vice -Manor Gibson. The City Attorney read the ordinance into the public record and announced that copies were available to the members of the City Commission and to the public. Said ordinance was designated Ordinance NO. 8726. 3. CHANGE ZONING APPROXLMATELY 4101 N.W. 7TH STREET FROM C-4 TO GU: Mayor Ferre: Is anybody here objection to item #4? AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED - AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 6871, THE COMPRE- HENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE FOR THE CITY OF MIAMI, BY CHANGING THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION OF LOTS 9 AND 10 BLOCK 3, WHITEHEAD AND BLAIR SUB (44-78), LOCATED AT 4101 N.W. 7TH STREET, FROM C-4 (GENERAL COMMERCIAL) TO GU (GOVERNMENTAL USE); AND BY MAKING THE NECESSARY CHANGES IN THE ZONING DISTRICT MAP, MADE A PART OF THE SAID ORDINANCE NO. 6871, BY REFERENCE AND DESCRIPTION IN ARTICLE III, SECTION 2, THEREOF; BY REPEALING ALL ORDINANCES, CODE SECTIONS OR PARTS THEREOF IN CONFLICT; AND CONTAINING A SEVERABIIITY PROVISION Passed on its first reading by title at the meeting of October 20, 1977 taken up for its second and final reading by title and adoption. On motion of Commissioner- Plummer, seconded by Commissioner Gordon , the Ordinance was thereupon given its second and final reading by title and passed and .tdoptt d b! the following vote: AYES: Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso, Mrs. Gordon and Mayor Ferre. NOES: None. ABSENT: Vice -Mayor Gibson. The City Attorney ;^cad the ordinance into the public record and announced that copies were available to the members of the City Commission Said ordinance was designated ord. 8727. and to the public. 9 APPEAL DENIAL OF VARIANCE -THINK REALTY -REMODELING 2911 LUCAYA STREET: Mayor Ferre: The Department recommended denial, The Zoning Board denied 6 to 1. Is the applicant here? Do you mind this matter being heard by a Commission of four? Unidentified person: Mr. Taylor do you have any objections? Unidentied person: No. Mayor Ferre: you have that right under the regulations. You do not have a full commission. Mr. Fosmoen: Would you like this item described by the Staff? Mayor Ferre; Yes. Mrs. Gordon: I would. Because we don't have any back up other than a resolution. Mr. Bob Davis: There is back-up, Mr. Gordon/ I think it is in the wrong place in the package. Would you check under item 3. It got misplaced under item 3. It should be there. This item was brought before the Zoning Board, as described, as a variance to permit a legally non -conforming structure, to have a remodeling of more than 20% of its value. 1 will explain it a little further, the Planning Department recommended denial on this matter and the Zoning Road denied it by a vote of 6 to 1. What basically has occured here, and I am sure the applicant will want to go into it in more detail, is that a structure at this location, which is an auxiliary structure on a .ingle family lot, its an auxiliary residential non --conforming structure on this lot, legally non --conforming, according to the building department, and they are here to substantiate this, was rebuilt in almost entirety from the inside out, being an old frame structure, and all the old framework was removed from inside the stucco work, and was re- placed and was left as it is today, which is still a residential structure, a second residential structure on a single family lot. So the petition therefore was to legalize this work by a variance. The Zoning Board after hearing evidence on this, from the applicant and from the building department, determined it was not proper and was denied. The applicant has the right for appeal and is here before you tonight on the appeal. Mr. Plummer: Was this done with or without permit itr. Davis: This is a confused situation. I would rather have the Planning Department state this. Mr. Williams? The question was just asked whether this work on Lucaya Street was done with or without a permit. Mr. Williams: It was done without a permit. After the building inspector found it he got a minor repair permit, after the fact. Mr. Plummer: The answer is, he did not have a permit. Mr. Williams: Correct. Mr. Bill Gautier: My name is Bill Gautier, I am an attorney, I represent Bob Taylor, president of Think Realty, who is in the audience. I would like to proffer basically what has occured and would like to indicate without trying to get into that particular matter, that there has been a tremendous amount of harassment in, between the City Building Department and the applicant Mr. Taylor. If I can refresh your recollection with just a few words, with regards to grounds for variance. Whether a variance should be granted to municipal zoning ordinance, depends on facts of each case. The applicant must show that a strict application of the zoning ordinance, will produce a unique or unneceas ary hardship with reference to the parcel of land and structure. We will be able to snow that. Usually a non -conforming use is allowed to continue. If I may, with regards to this particular piece: of property, we have structures that were built back in the early parr: of out county, 1920's. I have an affidavit from the former owner, before Mr. Taylor bought the property, who owned the property for approximately 47 years, without going into the preface of the Affidavit. She says she presently resides at 2780 Tigertail, Apt. 210. And she is a widow. She and her late husband, R. William Fagan, were the purchasers of the following described real property in 1930, 2911 Lucaya Street, Miami, Dade County, Florida, described as the property before you. She became the sole owner of this property upon the death of said R. William Fagan, and owned it continuously until November 4, 1976, when it was sold to the present owner. When the client and her husband purchased this property, it was improved with two separate dwellings, a large house toward the front of the property, and a small cottage towards the rear. During World War "II, affiant's husband was in the armed service. She lived with him when he was stationed away from the south Florida area, at which time both the main house and the cottage were rented to separate families who occupied each and separate dwelling units. At that time both the main house and the cottage on this property contained kitched facilities, bathrooms, -living quarters, which remained intact until the sale of the property in 1976. This is by way of refuting by what has already been indicated to you, that this is in the gentlemen's word, an auxiliary structure. This was a living unit in the Grove. This is her affidavit, Mrs. Fagan signed the 8th day of July, 1977. Somewhere during the course of this presentation, you will hear that this building was condemned and set before the unsafe structures board. I have a certification from Hershel Hill, consulting structure engineers, dated March 15, 1977: To whom it may concern, On 15 February, 1977 I inspected the cottage at 2911 Lucuya. During the inspection I saw nothing to indicate that the cottage should be condemned for structural reasons. The unsafe structural board, was unanimous in their decision regarding the structural soundness of this building, regarding whether or not it sould be torn down. That particular decision, of the Unsafe Structures Board, I secured today, and i understand, it has been represented to me that it was mis- represented, as to decision of this board, as the most recent hearing where this particular zoning or variance was turned down. But I will quote, not the printed material, but that which is typed in, and again, it was a unanimous vote, the un- safe board ruled that the city of Miami building official tell the owner what needs to be done. Owner secure property permits and ben repairs to South Fla Building Code, or demolish within 90 days. They were to tell the applicant what he should do. Now, the chronological history of this case starts back in November of 1976 when the first permits were pulled to repair this building. I might say that when you begin to repair a building you do not necessarily know to what extent you'are going to repair it. The applicant is also a very talented builder and has built extensively in south Florida. He no longer builds like he used to from the stand point of large developments but does kind of his own work. He is somewhat retired. Anyway he pulled his first permit on November 16th. He pulled a second permit for additional work on November 29. On December 7 of 1976 he went in for plumbing and electrical permits. He was refused by Mr. Bittner with no explanation. On the 6th of December, the propert was condemned. At the hearing on March 1977, I have just given you the results of the unsafe structural hearing and it was a unanimous vote to allow the builder to build according tc the code. I real that report and I won't read it again. Again, they was a court reporter there so this can be verified, Plus, I have the copy of the decision from that board. The next thing, right after the hearing he went back to the building department and they refused to give him permits. They said we need working drawings, so my client submitted them. The permits were denied again. I have here the permits and it say no kitchen allowed, written across it. This is dated April 20, 1977. We moved the kitchen. Of course there had been a kitchen there since 1930, and now they ask to remove the kitchen. And you heard comments from the gentleman who spoke first saying this was an auxiliary building. Mrs. Gordon: Did he remove the kitchen? Mr. Gautier: No, ma'am, he did not remove the kitchen. He did not intend to remove it. He was repairing and rebuilding that which was there. The next matter that occured what that they said no kitchen was allowed. That's when he secure the affidavit from Mrs;. Fagan, who bought that property back in 1930 which I have .just read to the commission, saying, it was complete, residential units. For toe next two weeks he atteeoted to get permits. Now we are talking about July and August, and he is instructed he haE. to get a variance. In other words every rinse this man moves tc try to do th. _ o', ra_ wants to do, he is hampered by another ruling for a denial of permits. Oct oer 3 he goes before the committee to seek a variance, at rhat time he was net told there ;were any objectors, and he was a denied a variance. At that time it was represented to the board he was 4 appealing to, that he had been told to tear down the structure that he was there to repair. Which again is contra to their actual opinion which I have here. Mayor Ferro: Cnnunaelor, I don't mean to cut you off, but you have been going for 12 or 13 minutes now. How much longer, ---- Mr. Gautier: T au almosa rini_,hej, but i did want to atve you the chronology here. During the cour ,e I might say of this loisr; series of seeking permits and going forward, there was a suit f iiec against hire by Cetatein which has been wiped out. He had that kind f difficulty. I don't want to bring all Lhese matters before the Commission, but you cad appreciate :i. am trying to give you the story that there was a great deal of conflict iiet'+:c.'a"+ parties. Nevertheless, what this c;ent1e an is seeking, is a variance, and I nave a petition here from 22 people living the area, within 350 ft. of this locarion where he is seeking the variance, which would like to see him get his variance. I will read that to you. It says 'We the undersigned hereby endorse the grantin,- of a variance to allow repairs of more than 20% of the assessed value on the cottage at 2911 Lucaya." I have a letter from the City dated July 19, 1977. This was the first time he was told that hc' was going to have to seek a variance. Again this man has been I believe conti uousiy harassed. He is trying to redo parts of some of the beautiful growth we have here, and merely reconstruct things that he has the right to reconstruct. You have before you the applicant, if you have any questions. You can ask me or the applicant. Mrs. Gordon: Where is the applicant? Mr. Gautier: Mr. Taylor? Mrs. Gordon: 1 don't recall if you told us how long he has owned the property. Mr. Gautier: 1976, I believe. Mr. Taylor: I bought the property in 1976 from Mrs. Fagan. The City stated I did not have permits, that I got permits after the fact. I don't like to use the worn lie, but I got the permits first, and I had two permits, and they stopped me, and condemned the building after I had two permits, and I just did the work that my permits called for. Mrs. Gordon: Did you say July of 1976. Mr. Taylor:I got the first permit in November of 1976, shortly after I settled on the property. I got the second one November 29. The first one was November 16. Mrs. Gordon: What was the date of the first service for unsafe structures? Mr. Taylor: What happened is on December 2 I went down to pull a plumbing and electrical permit which was made out by the department which I have here. As I was going to the cashier to get them done, Mr. Bittner, who I have had personal difficulty with, who was the chief building inspector, told them not to issue me the permits. I proceeded to let them know what I thought about it, and left. The next thing I went to see Mr. Grassie, because 1 had been harassed by the man and my building was condemned. That is where this all really started. Mrs. Gordon: That is not the date I am looking for. The very first notice that the building needed extensive repairs, ---- Mr. Taylors: DecemLcr5, . There was never a notice that the building needed repairs. When 1 bought the property, --- Mrs. Gordon: The lady that had it before you had never been served a notice. W. Taylor: No, ma'am, What I die, whet; I c.;ot. i:: the property it had plaster walls. It was an old building. What I tore out I replaced with new. I continued along the line. It is true, I replaced most of the studding. Mrs. Gordon: When you purcb&sed, you were not nociced in any way? Mrc Taylor: There was never any notice with any office. Mr. Gautier: The notice didn't even come until after the second permit had pulled and granted. A request for a variance did not come for another 9 months. Mr. Taylor: The City stated I pulled the permits after the fact. That is a lie. I want to make that real clear. Mr. Gautier: That is a matter of record. Mrs. Gordon; Okay. Mr. Plummer: I want to clarify the record. Mr. Taylor your hearing before the Zoning Board was on the 3 of October 1977, which is approximately 5 weeks ago. Is that correct? Mr. Taylor:That is correct. Mr. Plummer: Since that time sir, have you been to the State's Attorney's office? Mr. Taylor: Not since that time. Mr.Plummer: You were there prior? Mr. Taylor: No, I wasn't there, at the State Attorney's office about this matter. Mr. Plummer: The reason for my asking Mr. Taylor you made some damn serious allegation on October 3 which was five weeks ago, about bribes and corruption. You have had 5 weeks and I ask have you gone to the State Attorney's office with proof to bring this forward? Mr. Taylor: I am in a unique position here for one particular reason. Mr. Plummer: I would like to hear it. Mr. Taylor: You brought the matter up and all I can do is explain exactly how, -- Mr. Plummer: Sir, this is a public record. Mr. Taylor: Fine. I will explain again as I have seen Mr. Grassie's office and then got my property condemned after I saw Mr. Grassie. How much more harassment do I have to take because, Mr. Plummer, I want to state what happens. No building inspectors specifically ever asks for a bribe, but any builder will tell you exactly the way they have worked. There have been 18 building inspectors fired, so that is pretty clear what has happened. A lot of the people that did me, and came around and harassed me have been fired for taking bribes. This thing is not brand new. They look around your building and they go,'well I don't know if you can do that' and say I don't know about this. I think you are going to have to stop this job. They don't ask you for anything, but if you are a contractor, and you don't have a building inspector willing to give you a go ahead, you are stopped. If you have men working on your payroll, they are not going to say I am sorry, because the building inspector won't let you go on, you don't have to pay me. So it becomes less expensive. I can't prove anything. I am not going around being wired. I called the State Attorney's office. I didn't go down. I would have go around being wired. They will not take what was stated to me in the past. They need absolute proof. I am not going to put myself in a position, nor at the time I made all the comments, is any building inspector going to ask me for a bribe. I am so known to that building department when they hear my name, they shudder. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Taylor, may I quote you sir, verbatim minutes. Mr. Taylor: Certainly. Mr. Plummer: Then 1 will ask you to comment that either the minutes are a lie, or somethin, is wrong. Thu comment here quoting from ?age 11,-- Mr. Gautier: Mr. Plummer I am wondering if this is relative to the matter before you. Mr. Plummer: Sir, as far as I am concerned, it is very relevant. Mt. Gautier: I am not aware of what was said. I don't know that the rest of the commission or the audience is. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Gautier, you have the same avalabiltz of these minutes of as everybody, ---- Mrs. Gordon: What: minutes are you referri.ne to J.L.? Mr. Plummer: Minetes of the Zoning Beard hearings. I would like to quote to you sir, you were asked the question, what do you mean. by playing ball, and your response, Mr. Taylor. I will tell you right flat out that I have been approached for briber. Mr. Taylor: Just as T. stated Mr. P1unier, that is the way you are approached. Exactly. Exactly, the way it is now. If you want to get other builders around here to as,. how they are approached, and if you air to rc, to the records in the State Attorney's office, where othc_r. ?"•.ilid r, Lave come in, and see what actually happens, that is the exact procedhire tb&t is used. How come 1S building inspectorf, in the last two years have been tired for bribe taking. I am only specifically stating that that department has been convicted of doing it. Mr. Plumme:: Mr. Taylor if people like yourself who supposedly, or are flat out asked for bribes don't go to the proper authorities, and bring this to their attention, it will never stop. Mr. Taylor: 1 have gone to the proper author tez and my building is condemned because of it. That is just what happened. Just after I went to see Mr. Grassie, you are seeing me here for one solid year going through one sit of harassment after another. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Williams, I. assume you are representing the building department. Mr. Williams: I and two other inspectors. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Williams, the supposed violations that occured was that he built more than 20% which allowable under 'e;le code. Now, for my edification because the only thing I have here, is just two photographs of the original structure. How much beyond 20% did he do sir? Did he do 22%, 25%, 50%? Mr. Williams: Figure -wise i can't give you because I am not a building inspector. I am a zoning inspector. Mr. Plummer: 1.s there a building inspector here? Mr. Williams: I will tell you this sir, he rebuilt it inside the old stucco, completely rebuilt it. Mr. Plummer; i as not a building inspector either. Are you the building inspector sir? Would you come up and enlighten me? Mr. Ongie, City Clerk: Your name for the record please? Mr. Ralph m.,ou: My name is Ralph Johnson, city of Miami Building Department. I would like. to pass these pictures around for you gentlemen to see, and the type of structure it started. Here is a copy of the first permit he pulled for $600. valuation. Mr. Pi rune:: My question was very simple.My question was, that he has been denied because he supposedly exceeded the 20 . Mr. Johnson: Yes. Mr. Plumr. : the eeeetion is, what percent w:.ul:l you say he has gone to? Mr. Johnson: 1 woue say the beiidiae a i ave to be repaired to bring it to the Cone of apprc.iaate 65% of the „ui.ding. W. Plummer: lou are saying that he at this time, --the time he was caught that or the time he was fe:uud out, he had done 65%. Is that what you are saying sir? 7 Mr. Johnson: I say if the building repaired, to South Florida Building Code, to be useable, would take 65% of the valuation of the structure, to bring it to the Code. When it exceed 50% then it is for demolition purposes. Mr. Plummer: I'll ask my question again. At the time of the problem occuring, what percent had he done? Mr. Johnson: Mr. Plummer I wasn't there at that p.:rticular time. That was in November of 1976,Mr. Bittntr was chief building inspector at that time. The inspector for that territory is Mr. Vidal. Mr. Vidal made the inspection after the permit and stopped the job because of a structural nature, plumbing, electrical etc. that was to be installed in this building, preparation being made to install it. He stopped the job for a permit to qualify this type of work. Mr. Plummer: If what I understand you to say is correct, that to bring this building up to code, would take 65% of redoing. Why did you issue him a building permit in the first place? Unidentified: Read the bottom corner. The bottom corner. 'No structural change.' Mr. Johnson: You have a contract up there, ----would like to take a look at those trusses.I mean the joists, the ceiling joists. No saddles, no supports for them except 1 inch. You replace the roof structure completely. Mr. Plummer: How old is the structure? Mr. Johnson: I have a zerox copy of the old tax program here. It shows that this, -- I don't have the age of that at that spot. Mrs. Gordon: Who is Mr. Robert ? Is he the owner or you the owner? Unidentified: We are both owners. He is my partner. Mr. PLummer:Is it 40 years old? 50 years old? Mr. Johnson: The building is approximately 50 years old. Mr. Plummer: Is the other building being used as a residence? Mr. Johnson: I presume so. You are talking about the main house? Mr. Plummer: Was this one prior, being used as a single family residence? Unidentified: Yes, sir. Mr.Plummer: But it was grandfathered in. Mr. Johnson: Mr. Plummer, if you will look at the picture I gave you, you will see that that originally, front door and etc. and everything was designed as a garage. It had living quarters upstairs for maids. She apparently used the kitchen from the main house. Mr. Plummer: Let me ask. I am at a loss to understand how this man could be issued a permit, then to be stopped and receive a letter from Frank Solomon, from the department, telling him that the only way that he could get this taken care of was with a variance, when you are stating it needed 65% redoing to make it comply with the code. Mr. Frank Williams: May I answer that question? Mr. Plummer: I wish somebody would. Mr. Frank Williams: When I told Mr. Taylor that I and in the interiu: 1 had out there was no kitchen one of two things. If he showed, we would let him code. He insisted he was I arrived there and saw how extensive this work was, would get in touch with him and he came down to the office checked the plumbing record and the tax record, and I found in that building. I told him at that point in time he could took the kitchen out and allowed it to be like our records repair it right then. I would. I don't know about the building going to have this second unit. And it wasn't until he sub- 8 1 bitted the affidavit, that we made the decision chat this was a legal non -conforming buildiri . 1'p ti.o that point I l-:.Id no ecoad sin on the property and I had a tax record that It wa ; a raragc!, anti a stora.' :lz >>:a. Now, At that point, he could have gotten a itceelL :if '..l:r: wort because y _ legal non -conforming. There's where 4.Te 2 i' ii1 l\' p»t: .some creZ Inn e action from Mt Taylor. Ha brought an affidry i•• to,;e it vas i.ut •:hen we are running in to Lho pI ob 3;;'m he (,( ceded to :.0 4ii ?,lid ivy -where we are today. Mr. Gautier: That's wlwr€ the variance cnmc.: in if 1 :iir: not mistaken that you all wrote to him on July 19, 1977, approximately 8 or 9 months after he, ------ Mr. Wi.iliaes: 1 4;as aclnc;w7.:4ini: r'eceip. of that of fid,,Nit which changed the situation. is m.adr: it legal noncorformi_1; . 3ut than he was presented with the problem in ihi1;s inst:ance, vce cee't r•ep r tt twr units in, one -unit. Zone, over 20%. That !I, whiTr.,2 +q, -Jr.! tC:i'. Mr. Gautier:: Mr Ta7.1c 118.5 ar. t.ualry don+. everyti:l.n!; that you requested him to do but it has tan a1i: st ,r _ :'ar to get tr-., till.; point after his initial building permit. A_' a mat -tor of fact, --gist: t;Iat point. November 6 was just a few days ago. You Wert :king ab01: :1 bui l i.i"tof les., than 500 sq. ft. Mr. Tav1c bu ild i n; like. An t 1 ici enc.y or bedroom apartment. r:.a' a;.i_ it. is _t '•:' d rcom 1,.,:: , t .. nt:. I have a picture of the ex:steel when tho v rkf i .;.1;; :,;topper . Manor F= 1a:::ior 4 _ hav been on this for 35 minutes eld we haven't heard the ob.7or:_, . 1 thin i is . _::.v to t i':e the objectors the opportunity to CA!. e,e t r . ''3 1 7 i- ' h:: "i L•Ct : s h.?h.?r n.;v. flow many wish to speak? Come i.. thc ri,_ t;i yci;I" riai!i: anu address. Mr. Cs,or ;,tniti';; A` name is Oscar :,niith and 1 live 2496 Abaco Avenue, Coconut Grove. Mayor . ;.ric: hoar far ;,ay i.s, this t::oui the i?r,perty'i Mr. rhr:t is on r.1t'. far corner, and I am on the other corner. Just or.i i`t k aw;iy. Mayor Ferro: State your i:`; ;,e t t6n: 4ir. ::.iL I,ie.=.ndiui, is, iof course I don't know the legal technicalities) but Ile t.n..erat.andire! i, that till., is t:-1. An it-i neighborhood. And I believe, in effect '.._ . ;lr. Ta! ier is doing, is char; irig it from R-1 to R-2. He is building tiia:. efi cir'i1Cy and, while the big house I believe is rented now, is nothinv, r',r'v, i:. ?1D'.:i in the fliL.:r•' from ren-Lin4 that second one. And I believe, that it (eee centcrn completely e. c- the. building codes. That is, distance fiat:, pr.:;arty int earl Etc. We have lived there for over 25 years. 1 think it wcs .i: 1953 thr.tL L.,e• mceved in there. And all that time, that structure has been a dilapid; .c,i, to:.ldledown e :reg . Noe, `ie is t:l•y:nt; to bake it into a building unit. 1 bob eve Gil.' ot tit''' i2ent i emer! brought :zit. rho : iict it WiiS a garage, and I think your pher. ;',r 7.hs will probably show it, with the gar:.ge doors in front. All right? Gorden; :'il. i'ormoen, Mr. .,hippie e: scnr;eonc•,----1 am locking at plot plan Cris:11.utec to '.i -. Luca1'a Streer o oris to have to properties which lace It ".. or tl,r,e seoi to tia\e• c::onit s .;ill rructure. aid . larger stucture. Are you f air to ::ar wi tr it enough *cc tel :'ti' unetiter or not those are units or not. :ir. i,'h.t• i._: 'lht r.et:.it;i(>ne as we eeve :he^.:, would indicate that they are accessory stru t i : s ...:hel f,arsi!,e or storage arias. They are not indicated with No. 1 on them which would .1adic :._ r.;t�1 were :. unit. Mrs. L.,...-e, re Has i i1l•:n node un 1.i spei:t :Cu To see M1. i,'hipp!._. 1 t-es le the areahut 1 dide't p:ay particular attention to those. This i:liormareL.e will he eY our eppes.ls survey approximately a year, or year and a half t? :•, e,C ::..'`L: t :`.:' ,erect if s'ou or soi; i:an else from your department, ---or tier ti4,:s i :,i;' ele r.: seweer.._ . ,-ot i the dci:aL tr:ent that did the inspection, whether 'ye of not they could answer that question. Mr. Whipple:I inspected the subject property, or I looked at the subject property. but I did not look at the others on the street in that light. Mrs. Gordon: Are there other people here in objection to this item? Mayor Ferre: Does anybody else want to speak as an objector. Any questions of Mr. Smith? Mr. Johnson: Mrs. Gordon, I might add the way its laid out there is not the way it is physically on the property. Mrs. Gordon: I am curious about these properties across the street that appear to have small structures around them and I wanted to know what they were. Are you familiar with them? Mr. Taylor: Yes ma'am. All in that entire neighborhood there are series of cottages and auxiliary buildings which has been the nature, -----as a matter of fact there's an apartment building with about 30 units one block away, right across the street. Catty -corner, across the street. It is all one zoning, but they have been, just like my building, there are a lot of little cottage units on these properties, on these older houses. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor I think it would be important for us to inspect this property, or the neighborhood.Any objection to letting this go till the next zoning hearing. Mayor Ferre: As you know Mrs. Gordon, we have a policy in this commission, when a member of this commission wants to personally inspect the project, Mrs. Gordon: I am more particularly interested in the neighborhood than I am inspecting this particular structure itself. I want to see the neighborhood, what's around it, what's across the street, --- The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Gordon, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 77-894 A MOTION TO DEFER CONSIDERATION OF AN APPEAL BY THE APPLICANT ON THE ZONING BOARD'S DENIAL OF A VARIANCE TO PERMIT REMODELING OF A NON -CONFORMING STRUCTURE AT 2911 LYCAYA STREET PENDING INSPECTION OF THE PROPERTY AND THE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORHOOD BY MEMBERS OF THE CITY COMMISSION Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES:Mrs. Gordon, Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso and Mayor Ferre. NOES: None. ABSENT: Rev. Gibson. Mayor Ferre: See you next month. This Utter has been deferred for one month until the Commission has the opportunity to inspect the neighborhood and the property. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Ongie, would you take a copy of these minutes and forward them to the State Attorney's office for possible investigation? Mr. Ongie, City Clerk: Yes, I will. Mrs. Gordon: 1 wou:in like to be furnished a copy of the minutes. I would certainly like to have them. Mr. Robert Davis: I apologize Mrs. Gordon you didn't get them. We will get them to you in the----- 10 r Mrs. Gordon: I have all the agenda but no bnekups,--no minutes ot back it up. Mr. Div: We did senc them cut in L.ir or:ki,ge,---wc thought. I understand Cutd-1. 5. PROr2T11 CHA'NIGF 01 /0N-N° - IrTV'T BY oP JACK Mteyor Ferri- We are ncv goile t: ilea up it,m N. •7. Arc there any objectors to item 7. Mr.'Davis: Mr. Mavr this was 1 requesn writiin; by letter, to the Commissioners, :o nfficc for inc.i.uslc this agenda. A personal request by Dr. SeiLlie Ji:ale Lis equs for a tange of zoning. Mayor Ferre: is this something that he been through the Zoning Board? Mr. Fn: D7. Suitlin 7iS r,',"11.1,11:,‘_10,; that. Cie Commission direct the staff to initiate this reecning. Mayor. Ferre: Oh, I sec. ThE Doctor is requesting that the Commission initiate the precedeI,, Arc there any ohlectors to this item? Mr. Fosmoce: 1 don' t:olicve thero are any objectors. Mr. Davis There was no one notified on this Mayor. Mr. Fosmeee: It is not public hearing. Mr. W. CUAiles: I Clarles, my :iddress is .2.1.3 SW 28th Road. Mayor FOrit: Are ,,i0u attorney c.lecorC, Mr. Charles. Mr. C'edrlete tio. I af7: here ,7is a zoning consultant on behalf of Dr. Seitlin. I have pa Eael out literature here. Dr. Seitlin has three owners that will be up here tu-, enaik hireself, and Yee ether:, On this little map you will see the red cut part, and ehat we h,nie is diffuculty getting the consent forms becausc w ve Yi raiiroa, we have tne county, we rave the state and the federal government. S;, it is limes; an impossibility for us to start our hearing under the code. if .yee look nc Lhee man you will ete. that your city hall is going in in 1978. The library anC, museum is going ie in lc.:78, your city police station and the Florida resamrces and the C.S. A. services are already there. Whz1.. ';aprcned in in thc das, eerything east of the railroad was cons dteed Dovnewn Miami. Now every:Ling east cf 1-95 is Downtown Miami. This area is C.-4 and we would like for the hoard to tell the planning staff withnue yourself, to hold a hearing on it and we will. pay whatever expenses neeessary z hav,: it. Bot wc c;Illac comply with tlw code with the necessary consent fro: people :In a]Joinine area. ',7k, that's our problem. About 60% of the owners in area hr...e Leen contacto: and are all for it. Three of than are here tonight. We knov tlat eou trying t icvise C-3. It has been on the table for about 3 years. i! ent as in like everything else in Downtown Miami,then if changE tc C-3, wo wtll he in it and be bound by it. If you have any questions, I will b. to answer them. Mrs. Go. -don: Why do you want C-1;? Mr. Charlea: er. Seitlin will tell you. Mrs. Geron; Why? Mr. Chari: agencies desire under C-4,you have a two -to -one ratio. Mr. .)avis car xpan Lixt. It limits us, E0 we cannot build adequate buildings to ren e rho it:N:',CYcli overnment, woo want ua to start building right now. Mr. Davie, weeld MT. 1 and t1.1 prohlen Mr. Gordon, the applicant wishes C-3 zonin, :n erder to Luile skruture whiel. would cover more of the lot and give him a r,,q.io than the curer iz: uould permit, together with the rest1::iction on pnrkine which C-4 has, would limit his proposal for the government. il Mr. Plummer: What's proposed in the vaster study? Mr. Davis: One of the C-3's, and I think that Mr. Whipple can answer that. Mrs. Gordon: Where are we specifically? This property is on Flagler Street. Mr. Whipple: This is on the south side of Flagler, west of the railroad, next to the expressway. The Commission is aware of this property along with other properties in the downtown zoning study, was included. Mrs. Gordon: I remember. Mr. Whipple: As the commission is also aware, I believe the department is actively working on bringing back before the proper board in this commission, the update of the downtown zoning study. Mrs. Gordon: It has been 5 years? Mr. Whipple: It hasn't been 5 years that we have bringing it back up. We are actively working on it, and we will have it before the Planning Advisory Board in January. What we are suggesting in our comments, is that, yes, that this be included in the part of the consideration of the revised and updated study for downtown zoning. This is proposed to be part of the overall Downtown zoning concept. If we were to defer or break it down further,this was proposed for a C-3B classification I believe, originally. This is the area that is adjacent to the immediate core area of Flagler Street and also immediately adjacent to the Downtown Government Center. As the C-3B zoning as originally proposed, not- withstanding its content, was designed by which to take into account, the pro- posals for the Downtown Government center be compatible with it, and provide for the amenities we envision for downtown. Mr. Fosmoen: We expect to have the report before the Planning Advisory Board in January. We are currently meeting with the various committees that this Commission appointed to review the Downtown Zoning Plan. Mrs. Gordon: What about the ordinances themselves? The various kinds of C-3? That will also be heard at the same time by the Board? Mr. Fosmoen: We are talking about 3 subdistricts within C-3 at that time, Commissioner. Mrs. Gordon: At the same time? Mr. rosmoen: I think that to initiate on the part of the Commission, a rezoning of this property, would be taking things out of sequence. It is our recommendation that we consider this property. It is part of the overall downtown zoning plan. Mrs. Gordon: I agree. But I do have to state even before I was on the Commission, and the probably recall) when Revits wanted to build far back as that, it was noted that this was wasn't the proper zoning for this location. that I recall, and I think it is Planning Board level,(J.L. you his building. At that time, as an improper zoning. At least it Mr. Plummer: The record will also reveal, wait just a few more months, it will all be taken care of. Mrs. Gordon: Instead he got all kinds of zoning variances, and constructed the building, which is a very poor application. Mr. Whipple: If I t:ay, , due to the time re::traints,and restrictions that the Department, --the Commission was working ilnder at that time, they asked for a consiceration by the cot u1 t:r,tc:. at thy:_ time, as they were in their report. And there wa_; variances granted pursuant to the consultants recommendation. But let me hasten to add the grant of variances, that they received, is considerably less let's say than the C-3 zoning which the petitions are suggesting be done tonight. Mrs. Gordon: I know and I recognize that and I understand what you want to accomplish. Believe me, I am the most impatient one up here because of the long 12 delays that we have had. Everytime somebody wants to do something, they are just a little bit ahead of what the zoning is giii:F; to permit them to do. That's the way it has been. It is a standard story here. Dr. Jack Sc:i.tlin: . •: naiad is Jaek Se.:i`.lin. I am a dent. I live at 1666 Tigertail Avenua. This prctr?r t,• we have ow-a.�d cur 3} ;:xu:.i!„at c)_• i0 years. This area is in the tk-. + n t''J t. ?:1 ''.l' t u tl. basi d on a need at this time. r_ ; -13 an uiictrt need. i have he•':, nt:(.i.yr1ufl, w th GAS in Atlanta for the last three irouths. This is an area c,here ':hev c.:ant to be located and need to he located an 11 har; reached a stage where what they a `e baying is it it can be done, this: lc Lo wl exo wc won16 to i7•; 1 i.avo boon t _ iponsive to their solicitations. I will matt chm again ;1+_xt ei'. fillF- 1J.ij' .i tuatiun where the property is,•-----ti:e re::oning of th,.s property .•;hou'_c r ve been do::o a number of years ago. What we art- askiai-. is no more tht: to be irclude:i in what we really are, which is dowi'trwt-u, aat we would 1ik tc hn' e thit erne as stet as pos.`iible. I know there are delay`!. T knot.' ih're incst be t;l':•'.r, - t't:c . Hlt :t: 1' ..ti;kir:. And my colleagues will ask also, is That this be done expeditiously, --as qu ckiy as possible. I was born and raised tecrc : n M ire }i, father was one of tioE; pioneer :. I vas born not more than 7 block<:• r,c,1 i - om ho c, 01i N.W. 5th Street.. i. know this area like the back of my hand, at?.. I can ;ec what has been dc.ne in the past, has been a pushing of growth in areas i t.. .- aaI1y Jon't nand We are bu ildin all of Mari, all of the new structure. in that area that's close to Brickell Avenue, that's close to Biscayne Boulevard , 'when in reality what we need is growth and investment by let's .say, local investor. We are not try in}; to -_._,-- Mrs. Gordon: I don't want to in..errupt your trend of thouy.,bt and I appreciate your he ck„i o'no . 'Ou are a well known person and well r _-'spo 'd . 'Yea don't have to tell no t:;iat part of yCJL or3eSal. Eut 1 want to ask -.:he department whether it i5 (c'e:t Ll'.1Slt%1G, ,.mkAiir:nt, 1 :Y: tis 1` a:v -r co::iC up to my knowledge since 1'-.+e '-te:, :iro..in.i }: _.. f e .,i..j s , rtat 1+' 7.': : t: . Initiate it, that we initiate: it ar , m:-'u: a ;c i i,c: cla ,...:-ter. that is being considered foI' ti'i.b o.k, .=hi.cb c r?;1L yet on tot. '`uaok`-, but: it c.ouic at least save hin time g hoarings are being held, bbecause-. C.Jiii:.+ 1:.:. =+YGC:Ls:i�'.(1 :'1+1I'l1?' the time. i-tlat Ili:. I am c.t-.;,ting classiiicarion. Can it he done? }'p�..-„,•.t.: It c.euid the do.:c. it the Commission initiates the rezoning, there is nG lee i.;l'rJived to Cue property. Mrs. (jJr(_: 1 Clon't t'ifi1•'. the Aro(:C rt' owni•r would object to paying the proper fee, or any fee that would he required of him. Mr. ic;smt>en: Lora::i.ssioner if that is the case, all he has to do is file for a rezanin�, to C-3. Mt. . iodon: No, you didn't follow me. Mayor Pea,: : ii:''.: ca:' he file far r a rezoning that doesn't exist? Mr. Foam en: ;awe a C-3 district now. n'e have an existing C-3 district. Mayor ieare: Will that do harm to the C-3B that is proposed in that particular aria? hrs. Cnac : It wouldn't be a good thing for us to do in try opinion, for us to go to C- :finless we cent to the C-3B which is the proposed category of use for th �s arE .. Mayor 1;r.1ess we did it is wt:: did Plaza Venetia, which is that he go to C-3 and vl,uc.ari1y put all blest.- condition on that would be like a C-3B. It is a hycria until we !lave the real this;;. :.it:; your thought,--.-- if you do remember we did t: (.'.try,, . .com :ai.. downtown ..onin, study a district to apply to the paaperty that t;.. :oand is very difficult because of all tbi: int:'rt.:1ata pit:.. . of !i (,i. t' ri .' ..t-i.orib. It isn'L a ,irnple clatter to just poll tit: diatriat ao If ? ..:ly _.;!:(Jr:: _, is a little more cifticult than just sayintt :a.l't w: :xt:.ict :h1=t be ails. we d:;::t !:now rn� ,:::fie regulations that have ill: ]I'.:i).+, an fill . . r.:ce:r t is eau a.iir that .e Lfch _5;. "lii)+ doing the whole study so that ai. :aat= da regu1atocn : frola the dish ict regaiations are appropriate and in berm arty . It is a diftict.._ t job is what 1 an. suggesting. 13 Mrs. Gordon: Is that a yes or a no. Can we do what I said or no? Mr. Whipple: It could be done. I am suggesting that we try to do it for this commission as a C-3D and it was not acceptable to this commission at that time. Mrs. Gordon: You mean after it came back. Mr. Whipple: That: is correct. Mrs. Gordon: That was another case. Mr. F.hipple: We presented this commission with a C-3D that could be incorporated into the ordinance and applied to the property. But because of the problems involved it was not acceptable and we agree it was very difficult and did not mix. Mrs. Gordon: Are you talking about Plaza Venetia? Mr. Whipple: 'Yes, ma'am. Mrs. Gordon: This is a different thing. We are not talking about Plaza Venetia. We are in a different area. We are talking about a procedure and I don't think we should take a negative attitude. If we can approach it that way, ---- Mr. Whipple: What Mr. Fosmoen has suggested with the petition for C-3 and restrictions of which this commission would want to impose, is how ultimately the proposed extraction that we had with Plaza Venetia enued up. So what we are saying the extraction was not suitable in that instance and I would find it difficult let's say to do it in this instance, and perhaps the suggestion of Mr. Fosmoen is most appropriate . Dr. Seitlin: May 1 just say this, we would be willing to live with any restriction that you put on whether it is C-3A or B or whatever it might be. What we would like to do is to be able to proceed with our planning for this location. We have at least 60% of all the property owners on these two blocks who know that this ------ Mrs. Gordon: You know that we are not going to give you C-3. At least I sure that this commission is not going to extend a bad classification of zoning a little further over. What we intend to do, we hope, is to produce a suitable classification of zoning, applicable to this area which would still not hamper you, would enable you to construct a very fine building. My questions to him was, the baby hasn't been born yet. How can we feed it? This is essentially what I am saying. How do we do it? If we started this with a C-3, halfway through the mill, as it is going through, and you developed this new classification, the zoning board can grant anything less than our request. It is not tied hand and fist to that. Am I right? We have to get this straightened out. Mr. Fosmoen: The developer could come in with a set of plans and request a set of plans Chat match C-3B and request a C-3 zoning. He may wish to lay on some restrictions. Mayor Ferre: That is what Mrs. Gordon has been talking about for 5 minutes. Mr. Fosmoen: That is one approach. Mrs. Gordon: He is asking us to initiate it. Mr. Davis: Which is actually the way Mr. Rollo achieved Plaza Venetia. Mayor Ferre: That's correct. Mrs.'Gordon; I asked him a different thing Maurice than what he just explained. He is saying I c..u't do what I want to do. Right? Mayor Ferre: How much is the fee for him to initiate? Mr. Davis: Seven cents a square foot, with a minimum of 40 thousand sq. feet, 14 Mayor Ferre: Why don't you make a donation to the City of that amount? Do you want to make a donation of that amount? That is a voluntary thing on your part. You stop me if it is illegal. What you do is, you come hack with something that fit; the procsed,---- 3•C, is that right? Mrs. Gordon: ? or D? T hic;t is it. Mr. Fo:=mc•,:n . We haven't seen a. Alan from this developer yet, Mr. Mayor. My impressioi is that. there are not plans prepared, they would be seeking a rezoning through this commission. ?'Ir.Charle,,: May i have the floor Mr. MayoY, a minute? Mayor Ferre: You have it. Mr. Char ies: 1 haven't been a t.' ty commission for four years, in charge of zoning down _heze :in the law uepartment for 12,--•----------if you will just waive the necca:sit:• of us getting the consents, we will file the application, we will give you ttte conditions we ecluest an you can bouce it hack and give us more and we w'l pay the filing fee. We are just trying to get a tribunal where we can oet '::c:<.rd. u:o. can't get .. .. nsent o _t of I-95 and we can't get a consent out of Dade Co':nty, an:1 we can't get a consent out of FEC. Mayor Ferro: If we are in <;;rart:cnt,--- ---:nd this man wants to build something and he as willing to confora to what we eee doing tc propose, and he is willing conform to it, let's find a way to o this now. Mrs. Gard ,c: 1 move you we initiate this hearing. Okay. Mr. Yosm _Mav 1 rend that the developer come in with a set of plans and we si . down - nd talk et:cut triw Plans fit into a zoning district. Mrs. Gor:cm: he wants to speed thing up. Mr. )avi:•; It could be handled Commissioner Gordon by the applicant as he offered to, to initiate h:_s own hearing and initiate the variances that he would require in order to cenpiete this structure. Mr. oeLoen: I'll he happy to work with hint. Mrs. Gordon: i heard the first thi g he said was he was surrounded by expressways and has diif icuity getting property owners tc the amount he needs. Is that correct? Mr. 11.:'.is: ae does need either 200 ft. of frontage, or 40 thousand sq. ft. of . 1a a' area in order rc petition for the change in zoning, under our law. Mrs. Gor.:r: Jo doesn't need a iacent property owners. Mr. Davis: I am not sure he can attain that minimum. Can you? Mr. Charles: Yes, we have that. Mr. Davis: Can you get that minimum? You can file for you change of zoning. Mr. (harie;.:Y::;, the consent of the surrounding owners. Mayor Ferre: Sc: what's the problem? Mrs. Gorton; if you can do you don't have a problem. Mr. Fosmee All he hi;; tc do is file. Mr. DavI:.: We 4. e read; . w.. will. a;cept -.r tomorrow morning. Mr. Churle : Wi.tht::Ut d waiver, — Hi. Day a: Without: w.:iver of what sir? Mr. Caortes:•without adjacent property owners' consent. 15 t,t. Davis: We don't require that at this point. He haven't required it since January 1974. Mayor Ferre: 1 hate to tell you this, but you have taken up a half an hour of the commission's valuable time on something you should have done administratively by going in to the department and talking to them. And with all due respects to sir, that is abuse of this commission's time, Mr. Charles: We have been down there sir. Mayor Ferre: And you haven't been able to gat a straight answer? Mr. Charles: How many times have 1 talked to you Mr. Davis? W. Davis: Well, you have received the same answer that I am giving the Commission right now Mr. Charles. Mr. Charles: It never was brought up. Mr. Davis: Yes, sir. Mr. Charles:Wait just a minute. I told you about the consents, and you told me about the railroad and who to see to get them. Remember that conversation? Mayor Ferre: We are not going to invent the airplane again. The point is this. Are you satisfied now that you can proceed the way that has been outlined? You just heard him. Is that correct Mr. Davis. Mr. Davis: If he has the ;minimum of 250 ft. of frontage, or 40 thousand sq. feet of lot area, he can petition for a change of zoning, Mayor Ferri: Is there anything else to comp ed before this commission on this item. I hope you move on it quickly. Good luck to you and God bless you. Mrs. Gordon: No motion was necessary. 6. PROPOSED CHANGE IN ZONING R-1 to R-CA-2100 S. DIXIE HIGHWAY: Mayor Ferre: Where is the petitioner on Item 1? Do you wish to be heard by this commission of four? Dr. Armando La Casa: Mr. Mayor in view of the nature of the issue, I would like to have a full commission to hear this case. So in view of the fact we don't have it tonight, I ask the Commission to defer the item so we can have a full cc,.�mission. Mrs. Gordon: How many people are here on this case? Is the second time these people have been out? It is going to take a long time to hear all these people. Dr. La Casa: I must call to your attention that according to regulations, if there is a tight vote, if the petition is defeated,---- so, -- Mayor Ferre: The only thing I can tell you is this, there are a lot of people that have come here ,---if Father Gibson comes back, then we will hear the case. If Father Gibson doesn't come back, you have that right.I don't question that. But I don't think you are going to get a vote here to defer this case at this time. Mr. Plummer: Why don't you go to 2 and give more time to Father Gibson. Mayor Ferre: We have the same problem with 1i2. Unident «i_.d pe sou:We no longer have: the problem with #2. I have spoken to the applicant and w:: are willing to go with a four -member commission. Mayor Ferre: Okay, let's go to #2. 16 1 76 CONDITIONAL USE- PLANNED UNIT NATURE AT 3;1 SW 29TE AVENUE-ANTONIO FERNANDEZ: Mr. DaviF. Itee, No. 2 Mt, Mayor is the petitio. which w,a deferred from your meeting el October 20, via a petition for e PUN at nppreeimately .351 SW 29th Street, conaiscing of a onits in The Planning Department recommended approval. The Zoning Bar c recomneeed deniel hy a tie vote. The consensus of the Board wee that they ahould reduce th( number c nica le, they wished to carry the PUN through. Mr, Carlos .1), 'eayas: Gcod evening Mr. Mayo/ and tr.€mibers of the Commission, my name is Carlos De Zayay. I am an attorney at law from the law firm of Loper and Saldise. Ve have offices at 815 SW 13th Court and 1 reereuent the applicane, Antonio Fernandez. We are here tonight on an appeal of a tie vote which was 3/3 at. the M1aiii Zoning Beard from the applicant'a petielon fur residential development oi a Plaoned Unit Nature, hi this speeffle lot, which is on SW 29th Aveneu betoeen 3TH ahl nth areets. We wish to hriee Lo the attention of the Commission aeverai thioha and the firathehe, really, is we ask you to note where the lot is. I --n going to pass a:ohne the nketch which has the subject property hircled in hlue. It i3 a narrow lot and it only has street frontage on one sereet. That makes it difficult to develop really for anything except this sort uf cxecpt for a siagle family use, which the Commissien would note that there a:e ;the: house e there which ere developed as single family use and the logs are Leech smaller, Thin contains taaically a 12,000 sq. ft. area which be two it eeeept ;:hat only one of them u i have atreet feontage, so we have a situatiJr1 12,0u) sch ft. with Y',0 8CCUSS tc the sereet. We would like to reeoent the (2e:hernoes of Mr. Ferneneee who is not a eveloper by trade. He is iJ private ihdividual whe happeoed to Ley this lot as ,:"1 investment and now wishire,:; to develep ee. First of all he went tc Public Weche, and in order to get the peemit there he .greed to donate 3,250 ft. of lar, eo the chity of Eiami to get the permit ireett the Puhlie Works department, which ie it he received. He had to also prmide cif eta:. echseruction eeeta ef etreeta aed peovide the water facility, which haa. e haa -,ee eone meltiLorieee heeeiees which regain we would like to recount. The rirst hearing he had to go through was rot otioa control, for approval of a building with the existing sewer and water feeilities. Thia was done. The next thing he U3. t. de, and 1 nlertand acme :1 the objections do have to do with envirenmentalist reaeons. ic '.ent to the preeereetion central hoard of the Planning Depareeeoe, wh. re he was asked, and in tact ;:id, preeeTve 31 trees which are on the eite. And one can imagine the amount of aeconodation that had to he done to accomodate 51 trees but not a single one was destroyed and he complied with that. Next he came to the Zoning board, where he had to suaply a list of proprietors in the area, he supplied a list of 85 owner e and e arc happy to say that 45 of these .rnera die eien .tter of eeprovel. Toere were 9 objectors at hearings, so he die eomply with the requirement that, a th.heeity sigu letters of approval. He has coeo:e. with these rehuiremente and we as you to take a look ar the site plan of ehe soeeety. This is not unsightly by any means. We believe it to be not only intel- Teaent heee use, Lut a beautification et the neigborhood. We have here 8 units in 4 boildinge wieo aaehle parkinh, plenty ce trees and plenty of grass area. We would ask the Commission very briefly to think of the denial of the Zoning Board as a dead- lock and we would ask them tc break the deadloek and to go with the Planning Department which nas appeeved and recommended approeal. We are ready for questions. Mr. Foseeee. eienning Department recommends the project Mr. Mayor. We have iedcated if. the report tc you that thc shape of the property permits consideration of e Plaeeel Unit Development and the developweht that has been presented meets the regulations and requiremenes. We have no problems with the development that has been preeentee. Mayor Ferre: How many of you would like to be speakers? 1 see six hands. I think that is periectly all right. How much time to you feel woulo be appropriate for each speaker? Three minutes All right. Mrs. Gora,i: voLs aey,.oe have a pat plzni we could have up here? Mr. Fosmoen? Moyer Fo-re: oletceora true over re this aide, the 6 speakers and use thie mite ,ahone. Pleeet atate you aam, rid address. You will be clocked. The green light Vill on .her yoe stait. etert Flashing it at -le minutes and that means you have 36 a ,oeds to say goodlhe. if -,ua neee more time, we will give it later on. Tht-re is correction It will sturc flashing at 2 and you will have another minute. 1" 1r.H.A. Porter: I am H.A. Porter, my address is 330 SW 27th Avenue, which, from the Plat Plan flashed on the wall would be the area adjacent immediately east, fronting on 27th Avenue. I don't know if the Commission is aware of this or not, but this is an area that is an area that 63.5 ft. wide and, looking at their plot plan sitting down here in front, we have approximately 450 ft. of depth. We are talking in approximate terms of 6,000 sq. ft. for a lot, or less, that we are going to put duplex units on, --two duplex units on, as it were. Four units I believe, of two units to each building. There has to be road access to this. There is environmentalist impact on it, by the very nature of the area. From my back window, of my building, there is nothing but trees back there. I can't understand this gentleman's statement that he can go in there and put up four buildings without taking out trees. I believe it is a physical possibility. I know the area. I have owned that property since 1967 and I believe it is physically impossible to put a road in, buildings in, septic tanks in, drain -fields and meet all the requirements he is saying, and leave the amount of trees and open area he is talking about. The area is not that big. It can't be done, gentlemen. Mayor Ferre: Thank you sir. All right. Next speaker. May I remind you, just out of courtesy to everybody, please try not to repeak what somebody else has said before, if it has been said. Mr. M.T. Eady: Thank you Mr. Mayor. My name is M.T. Eady, I live at 2753 SW 4th Street. I can't tell exactly where that is on the map. It looks like the red plat. I have a duplex there. My objections to this is pretty much the same, as the gentlemai prior to me. However I want to add this. This is again a 63.5 ft. width, with 8 units that will contain driveways and parking spaces for approximately anywhere from 16 to 24 cars. Again the trees will be in the way. I must remove them. I want to draw an analogy between this place and a purl That 1 believe Mr. Fernandez built on 31st Avenue. The address I believe is 400 to 420. There are 9 units there. That particular PUN is approximately 600 fu. long and about 110 ft. width. And it is nothing; but a driveway and a parking lot.. There are lot of children living there. There is one house vacant. Already one family wants to sell their home. There is no place for the children to play. Not a place for them to play. Its all driveway. The buildings are built as they should be, 7 ft. from the property line. This is exactly what this would amount to. It will be a fire trap, it will be a pollution hazard, it will be a noise polluter, it will be a slum inside of two years, I guarantee it. I object most strenuously. I would be willing to compromise to not more than four units and that's all that should be back there with than amount of space. It's not the square footage, it is the arrangement of it. It's a monstrosity, Thank you very much. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Whipple what is the depth of that lot? Mr. Whipple: Approximately the longest point is 272 ft. long. Probably it averages 263 to 265 ft. long. There excess of 27,000 sq. ft. The minimum requirements for the PUN are 3,000 sq. ft. per unit which would be 24,000, as a minimum. As I mentioned they have 27,000,----excess of 27,000. Mr. Plummer: Let me ask a quick question. Within your..estimation, that he can do it without removing the trees? Mr. Whipple: Yes, sir. As a matter of fact, I had to coax some with respect to the trees. The original plan did not give too much concern to the trees. They provided the survey. They adjusted their units. They moved the parking and as the plans Mrs. Gordon has indicates almost all the trees are being saved. There may have to be relocation of a few. Mrs. Rosalie Hoffman: My name is Rosalie Hoffman, I live with my mother Mrs. May at 2741 SW 4th Street, right next door to Mr. Eady. I wish to say my mother and I concur entirely with what Mr. Eady has stated and what the gentleman before him stated. The only thing I with to bring to the attention and em?ha;.ize is the air pollution. My mother unfortunately suffers from emphysema and with the removal of the trees, and there will be removal of the trees, and possible damage to the root structure of trees which have not been authorized for removal, that will further contaminate the air because as we all know, the trees provide oxygen. It will be the closeness of the buildings and the automobiles will change the atmosphere and the pollution will be terrible. I really have nothing further to say except I hope you ladies and gentlemen love this city as much as I do and as interested in maintaining its beauty and its fresh air as I am. I thank you very much. 1 Carmen Carrero: My name is Carmen Carrero, I live at 351 SW 29th Avenue. That is approximately across the street from the property. Our front is just about .bigger then theirs. A lot of children play there. That'e one street where a lot of cars go through to cut through to avoid 27th Avenue during the rush. A lot of cars cut through to get from Flagier to 8th Street. A lot of children play there. I think it would be a hazard. There would be `j units. That would be a lot of cars there. I. dvi 't. uarler :tartd how they can get those cars to go in and out of there. We live in two-family units. WE have 3 cars. Most of the property is dedicated to parking for ourselves. I don't how they could fit in 16 cars across the street. Mrs. Brooke: My name is Brooks and I lt':e at the catnar of 29th Aver..ue and 4th Street. I have a small lot or a duplex, but with this vacancy, it was desirable I though ., the lot being vacant, but if they put in 4 dip]...{es, it will change the atmosphere of the whole nei ahboriiood. It is ::ccar'.y all Ceban refugees, who have bought CAI renting that property. They }Have children ::laid bets, and this girl who just spoke, they paid 32 thousand for the duplex they nave. 1 think it was built by this man who ,awns the lots we are referring to, and the: certainly would lose the valuation of that property by having 4 duplexes un th t small lot. 1 may be selfish. I.3 fact I offered to buy part o tie property and to enlarge my lot rather than. have 4 families come in the nee,hborhood. It is zoning and if he puts in 4 duplexes it will change the atmosphere of the whole community. Mrs. Porter: My name is Mrs. Porter, 330 SW 27th Avenue. All I have to say is, that I believe that if this gentleman t irst epproaeh d the people whose homes face on SW 3rd Street and SW 4th Street, about purchasing their property at a reasonable vrice,----I am sure he bought it just to do thi., very thing. That property has hoes: vacant ever since I have been in Miami, .,;P i..h is a long, long time. If et was put. sod f L'Ld de_eel artri'_nt 1i1 .'. l.r:; Lo :=ut those people off, they will have no b-acl. yards. They will have pe-_:nlo st.rndinf> on the second floor looking right down int.c; their hors:.s. 1 am sure you visited that area. If you walk back through there you will see exactly what em speaking of, that nc one on two blacks have any privacy anymore. I am sure that some of those old trees will have to go. And up and do'..m 27th Avenue alone, there are hardly any trees left anymore. I pereeaai:y have pleated and plante..i. I lost 4 beautiful palm trees there :rom the blight. But I have replaced with other things. I think it is a shame this is being done to *.he beautiful city of Miami. Mr. Porter: : r'lease, I didn't use all my time. I would like to make a rebuttal for this gentleman over here when he says they don't ha.'e to remove any trees. Hai, any of the ...tmmmission seen the area? Mayor i care. I ..:ive seen the area. Mr. arter: Have you been over the grounds. Mayor Ferro: I have net been on the property itself. Mr. Porter: ! again .efer to the area in question and with the planting, the tree nature,--t:he way it: is laid out, the nature of the building according to this aeetleman's pict plan o.-er here, there is absolutely no way, and I reiterate, there ie eaeolctely no way this gentleman can build ou this lot, the width that it is, without tree removal. If he says he can, there is no way. There's too many trees there, there is.too much foliage. There is not enough open space. It is just impossible to do. If you check the area, 7 think you will find I am correct in this. Mir. De Za:'as: Just .cry briefly .ir. May r and Inerbere of the Commission, first to the lady wha spoke next to last and the gentleman who epoke last. My client did not buy thie property specifically with this kin'of development in mind, -- a little while ag o. He nought it 3 year.. ago, and chr t property has been standing vacant for 3 veal:. ie fact and public eecorri. Second thing, and not only directee to the 4-eetlemou Who to lee last, but. most. Ui the objections, I hear and it gladden: my :.tart t_o hear, colleen' about trees, concern about the atmosphere, concern about tee eeiahborhood, tee. c'te. etc. fl: moos has this in mind more than we do. The „ere 2 ;:..,n :u. ; it is a physical imposcihilety to leave the trees there, but we re lad the cenetesiol that we are tiee up I:o env]' comentiT planning. WE have to leave J1 creep Li:t Yi'. No Way avound it. Fitt;" -one tat -cos ere there now, and 51 trees will b. ,here. l ei....ev • tee a..nt e.maa,-._r..:e .eve the city's department ----the choice. I have heard it ia a iiretrap. It is a pollution hazard. Well it se.rns like all of the departments of the City of Miami have been through this proposed plan and 19 have studied it. Nobody in the city has come up with a conclusion that it is a firetrap or pollution hazard, or anything like that. In closing I would like to say, that. this is an empty lot with lots of trees, and it must be beautiful. And everybody wants an empty lot for a neighbor, because it is the best neighbor there is, --no neighbor at all. Unfortunately the gentleman is also entitled to make use of the land he has. In doing this the only thing the city can do is to place reasonable restraints on land use, and can ask that the land use, -- intelligent land use, and be beautiful land use, --we believe this is both intelligent and beautiful land use and it will beautify this multifarious neighborhood, and not harm it. We would stand on what the city's departments have recommended and ask the commission to please break the deadlock. Mr.Porter:In reply to this gentleman, I would again reiterate that on the basis of the size of the lots, and again, I own frontage in the same area. It is 631 feet wide. By the time you get a street out of it, get septic tanks out of it, get drain fields out of it, there is no sewage available, water have to be put in which he said he will do, but what happens to trees along the lot line for roads. He has to have access. He has to have sewers of some kind, and there has to be a waste disposal systems. How do you get a drain field under a pine tree? It can't be done gentlemen. I reiterate, it is going to absolutely ruin it. The gentleman bought it. He didn't have zoning to do this when he bought it. This is the gamble he took. That's his problem. Our problem is to see that it is not overused. We are going to put 8 units in. Gentlemen, if you lived in my neighborhood, it will be 16 before its through. Mr. Eady: Mr. Mayor I don't believe I used my time either. I am M.T. Eady again. I want to reiterate that between SW 3rd Street and SW 4th Street, it is about 325 ft. I believe,--63 ft. In other words you have solid walls of dwellings around that cul-de-sac where Mr. Fernandez wants to build 8 units. Sixty-three feet ----- I just want to remind everybody about that. If you go out there and look at it, you'd see exactly what I mean. I also recall at that zoning hearing, that pollution control, or whatever the board is, that recommends that approval,denied that. As a matter of fact I believe the date for sewage to be fully installed could be something like 1980. How can he possibly build these units? Mr. Fernandez, applicant: Mr. Mayor we have 14 people here in favor who have not spoken. They are most likely not going to speak but I would like them to show their hands. Mayor Ferre: Do you live in the neighborhood? Who does not live in the neighborhood? Who has his hands up? Those opposed, raise your hands. You are property owners? All right. The supreme court ruled on that a long time ago about property owners, and non -property owners, and taxpayers, and non-taxpayers,etc. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor there is something in the minutes that needs to be spoken to. What about this pollution control conversation that is in the minutes. Mr. Whipple: Commissioner Gordon, as was reflected by the applicant, there are no sewers in this area, and none are proposed until 1980, or 1981. Therefore to provide any development on this property, they would have to abide by the Dade County pollution control regulations. They Dade Couty Pollution control regulations would automatically allow 2 units on this site. They went to the environmental polluti control board, petitioning for 8 units. They pollution control board granted them 4 units. The department is cognizant of this and the option is one of two things. Either 4 units will be built in accord with Dade County regulations and the other 4 units would wait, or they would appear before the Dade County pollution control and again ask for 8. This is a jurisdiction of which their regulations, --we are if you, responding to their wishes and their controls. We have no problem with the 8 units and yeild to their expertise in the field. Mrs. Gordon; I find that interesting because the conversation that is presented in these minutes, (I didn't hear anything about it from you all) and I find it an interesting conclusion that they can't ----the objectors, ---even build the 8 units, even if this commission gives them the approval, because of the pollution control. What do you have to say about that? Mr. De Zayas: The applicant would like to reply if he may. Mrs. Gordon: I would like to hear from him on that. 20 Mr, Antonio Fernandez: My name is Antonio Fernandez, - resident of s661 SW 9 Terrace in Miami. In order to reply to that I can tell you that we went to the pollution control department we got approval of two build:;-1gs now and we can go for four in the future whenever we decide to present it agalu ;:t the pollution control, or wait until 1980 or 1981 when the sewer denartmc,.: .1-1.c. be able to give us sewer service in that area. But we are talking no o a;i:i _ ,:: t department. We are referring here to the code of the City of Miami which <rilows to build 4 duplex in this particular lot, with no regards of whatever .Dilution control opinions are, in this respect. Mrs. Gorden: We understand that, but when we look for information, we look for all the information that could '02 available, and the deciai.on-making process that we have to make. Mr. Fernandez: That is why I don't see this « jection r-Joint of this gentlemen over here, because everythin is on record. 1,1,atever decision was taken by the environmental control about the trees is on the records, and they were there that night and they know exactly that we have to keep the trees there. There is no use of them truing to hide that fact away. It is on the records. And you have it there with you. Mr. Davis: Mr. Mayor if I may, on the problem of the pollution control approval, and the permit, this conditional use, if the commission decides to overrule the zoning board and grant the conditional use, has a normal life of 6 months, until the applicant can get permits for all 8 units, with En extention of a year beyond that, which makes a maximum of a year and a half for the applicant to get permits for all 6 units. However if Pollution Control does not appfove of more than 4 units, he could not get permits for more than 4 units, and if he doesn't get his problem solved within a year and a half, he would have to Lome back to the Zoning Board again after that has elapsed in order for him to get more than four units. Mrs. Gorden: I want to say what i have to say, --what i am thinking anyway. There is merit on both sides. The man owns the property. He pays taxes I assume, and something is going to be built. Whether he builds two,four or six, or eight, is really the question. But something is goinv; to be built. So those in objection recognize that. 1 am assuming he has the right to build something. I don't think he is going to build more than four, because he is not going to get pollution control to grant him the others, anyway. So you are all in good shape. To the department, if this body grants four, is there anything to preclude some future point in time, for him coming back and amending his application? Can a PUN revised? Mr. Davis: A PUN can be revised. Any conditional use can reapplied for after one year, if it is on the same property. Mrs. Gordon: With amendments and additions, or whatever? MR. Davis: Yes, Ma'am. Mrs. Gordon: You can only build four, or you can build now. Mr. Fernandez: Yes, we are planning and taking it back to the pollution control Board to give it a try again. Mrs. Gordon: When were you there last? How long ago? Mr. Fernandez: They granted it before in some other locations. Even two blocks away they have granted it for 9 houses, so we don't see any reason why we couldn't get equal approval of the pollution control board. Mr. De Zayas: Just one point too, if I may, direct it to the character of the neighborhood. All along 27th Avenue we have multi -unit rentals, and across the street there are duplexes. There are duplexes all over the neighborhood, and this is zoned R-2. Mr. Porter: Excuse me please. This gentleman doesn't know what he is talking about. I own property on 27th Avenue and it isn't multi -family. So find out your facts before you start making statements, friend. I own fronting 27th Avenue, ---I own 65 x 175 immediately behind this property, so you don't know what you are talking about. 21 Mt. Porter: It is not all multi -family, or single family. In actual fact there is a vacant corner directly across from the Kubek Center which nothing is on. There is a single family house immediately behind that. That is lot 3. Unidentified person: Sir, what is the Kubek Center? Mr. Porter: Kubek Center is University of Miami Extension School. This is not multi -family. It is a school. It le a two-story building. It is not multi -family, it is not a business, it is a school. I happen to own the unplatted portion of the lot immediately behind this, which I believe this continues through to 29th Avenue as an unplatted section. Now, again, you don't know what you are talking about, because not everything on 27th Avenue is multi -family, nor is it all commercial. I happen to run an office out of my building, but it is not multi -family. Mr. De Zayas: Sir, I didn't say everything was multi -family. I stand corrected. Mr. Fernandez: I would like to point out, on 4th Street and 27th Avenue is a four-story building. It's a multi -family. As a matter of fact is a condominium. And I sure know what I am talking about. I have been fighting this for 3 years. Mrs. Gordon: If this application were not approved, Mr. Whipple or Mr. Fosmoen or whoever wishes to answer this question, what is the applicant's alternative. Can he come back with a different plan of lesser units. Mr. Davis: After a waiting period of one year. Mrs. Gordon: Can he revise it now and not have to file it all over again? Mr. Whipple: Commissioner Gordon, in my opinion, I believe if were to decrease the project, I may stand corrected by the Law Department, but I believe he could refile. I think the condition of one year is based upon submitting the same appli- cation, to answer the question directly. So if the applicant were denied tonight, he has options. One, to use the property as a duplex which the zoning allows, No.2 submit an application less than what he is submitting tonight. Mrs. Gordon: These old plats are very unique. Really the present a hardship. There is no question about it. Because they are platted in a peculiar way. Originally they should have just made the abutting lots larger and forgotten about the middle piece. But they didn't do that. The platters in those days didn't do it. Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you,Whipple, how strongly do you feel about this? You obvioulsy have gone into this in great detail. Mr. Whipple: We find no problem with the development as proposed. The pollution control is a question which is beyond our jurisdiction. I might say the questions of the trees, there will be 21 trees removed, eleven of them are pine trees, 4 avocado and three are palmetto, and they have to be replaced with trees per the City ordinances. Mayor Ferre: Mr. Fosmoen what is your recommendation? Mrs. Gordon: Are these two-story buildings? Mr. Fosmoen: Two-story. We recommend the granting of the conditional use. Mrs. Gordon: It presents a real problem because of the proximity of the higher building:: to the lowers buildings, pardon me, ----but they wouldn't be located directly between two other units. Mr. Fernandez: You find at least 3 or 4 in that block are two-story. Unidentifie.,: ;4ay 1 say one thing. What you mentioned, two-story buildings, one would be directly behind my property. 1 wouldn't mind a one-story building but two -storms, what this other ;cntic:::nn brought out, ---we would have absolutely no privacy at all. one at all. Not 4 units there. Mrs. Gordon: 1 have to agree if yo,i put l.i, a one-story unit there wouldn't be the kind of feelings that's generated in this room. Our position is to try to give you utility for your land, but et r.h same time not to hurt those who are living around it. I believe if you would put one-story unit, you would find 22 very little objection here. Am I right? Mr. Fernandez: We are talking about some objectors, we are not counting at all, with the people,that are in favor of this. Everything you see green there, ---- Mrs. Gordon: But they don't live next door to your property. A big difference. Mayor Ferro: Excuse me,, Mr. Fernandez, that h-is nothing to do with this. There are some people for it, some people opposed. 1 don't blame the people that are opposed. They are the ones that live right next to it. Mrs. Gordon: I am going to ask that this item he aent back to the Planning Department and a proposal come back to us for one --story units. If we deny it you are going to have to start .i whole new application. That will cost you additional money as well as a lot more time. But I really find it a real hardship to the neighborhood for you to be up there and them down here. Mr. Reboso: Rose let me tell you what the problem is here. In one story we are going to have less green areas. Mrs. Gordon: We may have less units, yes. Mr. Reboso: Less green areas. Mr. Fosmoen: Are you suggesting that the number of units be reduced Commissioner? Mrs. Gordon: It would of necessity have to be reduced, I am sure. But pollution control is also limiting the amount of units that they can have. Mr. Fosmot:n: At this time. Mrs. Gordon: That is right. Absolutely. So if they are going to build two units or four units of two-story construction, it would be a heck of a lot better for them to put that on the one level, four units. Mayor Ferre; I would like to remind the commission it is 9 o'clock and we still have item 1 to hear and that is not going to be a short itn. Mrs. Gordon: We are still waiting for Father Gibson a:wway. Mayor Ferre; That's true. Mr. Reboso: I don't agree with what Rose said. Mr. Mayor, like Rose said at the beginning, both sides nave merit. At this time I am going to follow the recoratendation of the Planning Department and move it for approval. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor 1 second the motion. In my estimation this is going to be governed by pollution control. The trees as far as I am concerned will be there. I know they have exceeded the parking regulation:;. They will have two spaces for each unit. There are a total of 16 spaces. As far as I am concerned I think it is within reality, and I second the motion. Mrs. Gordon: Aichought 1 have stated my position quite fully up to now, that the two-story structures, the number of them, the proximity to the adjacent properties would make this application unacceptable to me. Mayor Ferre: I think that in these zoning matters that we continually decide here, there's always argument between what the neighborhood wants, in this case not what the neighborhood but what the bock itself. ,--people who live in the immediate, adjacent vicinity, want. And what they are entitled to as property owners, and citizens and taxpayers, and under law,(I. am not a lawyer), but as I understand it, the right inherent in the iree enterprise system, of the ownership of property. The person who own:, that lot hae certain inh: resit r;,'hts. Now, the question is, what are those rights .dna wiser. 6o t},use becom aaht,ve. That becomes in. this question, tech- nical. There it:, the question of the wi tL. is only 62 ft. wide.. It is a narrow lot. That was the mi:; t. ke of wl oeve : sc,DdlvidrU c;, .:; rro;;c rty. They should have never done it. But is exist::a here: is the question of l.:<<: trees. There will be 51 trees kept. There will he 20 some odd frees removed. Well, but, --they will be replaced. Then canes the questior, of the density. How deep is the lot? Unidentified: 425 ft. Mr. Mayor. Mayor Ferre: 425 feet. And you are going to put 8 units on it? Which in and of, and by itself, doesn't bother me as much as the question of the two story nature of it. On the other hand if it doesn't go two story, and if you go one-story, obviously you are going to have less green area. Then there comes the question of the pollution board which obviously has to be decided in the future and is beyond our jurisdiction. So the real question comes down as to whether these people have a right as a property owner to do this. And 1 have tc,in this case be guided by the people that are the professionals in this who, both of thorn, when I asked them recommended that this is within the purview of reality and therefore I vote with the majority. To you on the other side I apologize and I am sorry you did not get your way. The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Reboso, who moved its adoption: RESOLUTION NO. 77-895 A RESOLUTION GRANTING THE CONDITIONAL USE AS LISTED IN ORDINANCE NO. 6871 ARTICLE VI, SECTION 1 (4-A)(a), TO PERMIT CONSTRUCTION OF A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT OF A PLANNED UNIT NATURE (PUN) ON LOT 2, UANIRA SUB (103-76) BEING APPROXIMATELY 351 S.W. 29TH AVENUE, AS PER PLANS ON FILE, CONSISTING OF 8 DWELLING UNITS IN FOUR STRUCTURES , ZONED R-2 (TWO FAMILY) (Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on file in the Office of the City Clerk.) Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the resolution was passed and adopted by the following vote - AYES: Commissioner Manolo Reboso Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Rose Gordon Mayor Maurice A. Ferre NOES: None. ABSENT: Vice -Mayor Gibson 8. PROPOSED CHANGE OF ZONING-2100 SOUTH DIXIE HIGHWAY: Dr. Armando La Casa: What I am saying, there are people here waiting since 7 o'clock, who have not had their meals,and they should be given the courtesy of either solving this situation, if we have a full commission, or deferring the item. Mayor Ferre: What is the will of the commission? Mrs. Gordon: Have you any word from Father Gibson? What does the neighborhood feel? What do the people feel who are here to speak to it. Do they want to speak?. Mayor it is up to you. You are the conductor of this meeting. What do you want to do? Dr. La Casa:Why don't you take a poll? Mayor Ferre: Let's have a little order. These things are not decided by counting how many people stand up. The point is you have certain rights under the regulations of this commission, and I am not going to deny you those rights. 0n the other hand these people in the neighborhood have been put through an awful lot of trouble. This is the second time they have been put off. It is now 10 after 9. I am willing to stay here as long as you want, to wait for Father Gibson. But if Father Gibson does not come there is nothing I can do about that. Dr. La Casa: I suggest you poll this audience here. Mayor Ferre: We can't do it that way. There is no way we .are going to make decisions here by the number of people who raise their hands. Mrs. Gordon: Are you suggesting we count heads? bt. La Casa: I am suggesting you count heads, if you want to know what the feeling of the citizens that are here, so at .Least their presence here is not worthless. If we have to cance11,----- Mrs. Gordon: you want to know my feelings? Suppose next month somebody else is not here. You mifht be delayed indefinitely. 0n the other hand it is not my fault or their fault either. Not a matter of fault. ?)o you expect you will have an unfair decision i.f you have cne member not here. Dr. La Casa: It is not a matter of. an unfair decision, Mrs. Gordon. The question is this, 1 need three votes. Mrs. Gordon: And you have four people. Mayor Ferre: But I think what he is saying, and you have to grant him that much, is that obviously his chance of getting 3 out of 4 are less than getting 3 out of 5. You can't blame him for that. If you were in his shoes you would be doing the same thing. The question is, is that right and should we do this. Mrs. McAliley I will recognize you first. Mrs. McAliley: I would like to remind the commissioners that we have the same chances. We need the 3 votes too. Mayor Ferre: But you are not applying to change anything. He is the applicant, so you don't need three votes. All you need is two votes. Mrs. McAliley: Well anyway we are still counting noses up 11:2re. As far as cur fellow citizens here with us, those who favor the petitL-n, I only recognize two or my nei;_hbors from the Secorfee Street, 22nd Avenue are. These other citizens are here GI. of friendship ,ip or some other reason for the developer. It is not because they live in the neighborhood. Dr. La Casa: I have a list here with names and addresses of no more than two blocks of the property of people supporting the petition. Actually, we feel that we have no less than 25 residunts of that particular area in a radius that does not exceed 200 ft. from the property in question, that are here supporting the petition. At least. 25. Mayor Ferre: These are property owners within 200 ft. Ali right sir. Mr. Le.? Sugarman: My name is Lee Sugarman, I live ._t 2212 SW 27th Terrace. Before I say anything I would like to congratulate the members of the commission that were in the election. I am glad I picked winners. Anyway, I live within 100 ft. of the , i uperty. Second house on 22nd Terrace from 22nd Ave. Mayor Ferre:Mr. Knox just mentioned something to me I was not aware of under the law, as City Attorney. So you say it into the record. Mr. Knox: The matter before the commission in the nature of an ordinance. The charter and law requires in order for the commission to take official action it must do so by a minirun of a majority vote. That is three votes. In the event there is a determination or deliberation based upon an ordinance, which results because of an incomplete commission in a 2/2 vote, the matter is maintained in a status quo s.itauaticn. That is, it does not represent any official action and therefore, as a practical matter, would operate as a deferral of the matter rather than a defeat of the matter. Mrs. Gordon: That mean we can hear it. Mayor rc•rre: We can't hear it. That is exactly what she has been saying. Mr. Plummer: That means if we coke to a 2/2 tie, the matter is not heard. Mrs. Gcrdcn: Thee we would have to hear it &i sin. liow do you know you will come to a 2/2 tic.. You ::13y rive 4 LC) ri, or 3 Lo __ I d:n't understand your reasoning. If you don't want Co hear ti4iu case tonir;hr, then simply say, I don't want to hear this case tonight. Bu:. I am ready to hear this case tonight. If you are not, just say SO, Mayor Ferre: I do think if the man demands a request that we have a full commission, acid if I were him, I understand his logic. Obviously to get three votes out of five, his odds have to he better than to get three votes out of four. So you can't blame him for that. Who owns the property? Dr. La Casa: Southeast Properties. Mayor Ferre: Is the cwner here? Dr. La Casa: I am representing the owners. Mr. Plummer: May I ask this question? How many people are in objection? Just about half and half. . Mrs. Gordon: I thought we set this meeting up at night for one specific reason, and that was to give the people a chance to get her in the evening. I tell you, Dr. La Casa, all due respects to you, you are really being unfair to an awful lot of people by demanding what you are demanding that this commission not hear this case. I am going to say it whether you like it or not. Mr. Plummer: Let me tell you Rose. I find fault with that, but one thing that I have always complained about here, is spinning my wheels. I don't want to spin my wheels. I was under the assumption that a 2/2 vote was a defeat. I have always traveled that road. Now I am being told that road has now been changed. My ignorance. Mayor Ferre: You have been ignorant of the law all your life, like me. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Plummer what it means is that this case would come up again and --- Mr. Plummer: --and have to hear it all over again. Mrs. Gordon: If it is a 2/2. Your chances of it being a 2/2,---just throw some dice and you will find out. Mayor Ferre: What's the will of this commission? Mrs. Gordon: I move we hear this case. Mayor Ferre: There is a motion that this matter be heard tonight. If you get a second, to that. Mrs. Gordon: I don't think we need a second. It is a scheduled item. If you don't want to hear it, somebody else can move the opposite. Mayor Ferre: Mr.City Attorney, give us a ruling. Mr. Knox: Any motion has to have a second. Mrs. Cordon: It would have to be a motion not to hear the case, because it is scheduled. Mayor Ferre: She is right. The only way you could not hear this case, is if there is a motion to defer. Is that correct? Otherwise this is before us at this time. Here is where we are legally. He has requested we defer until we have a full commission. He has requested that we proceed and hear this case. Rose makes a motion, but she withdraws because there is not second, but she doesn't have to make it. Technically she is right, that the matter is before us anyway. She doesn't have to make a motion to put it before us. So the only thing you can do now, if you don't want to hear this case, is somebody has to make a motion to defer. Otherwise the motion is before us. All right. That means this item will be deferred. When is the next hearing. Mr. Davis: December 15, Mr. Mayor. Unidentified: May I ask a question. I thought if you move, you have to have a second. I didn't hear it. Mayor Ferre: No, he can't move it. Only members of the Commission can move it. 26 AMR Unidentified: I would just remind you that we are here because it was deferred. The petitioner was not here when it was on the agenda, I would like to say I that I here about 180 petitions from the neighbors obje ting to it. Mayor Ferre: I can't blame you for your position. Anybody else want to make a statement? Janet. McAliley: i am Janet McAliley, 2025 c',ecoffee> Street. We have been to the Zoning Beard meeting, gotten everybody out. that night. We were here about 3 weeks ago and because the petitioier had other plans at the 1._sc minute after we had petitioned. called all the neighbors tc notify them of thts, we all got down here and are told after we arrived that it was going to be deferred as a courtesy to the petitioner. Now, we are due to be down here next week on another zoning item in our nei0t'+.2rht od on the 16th. There is another zoning it€ r, for December 8 that we are interested in, and now you are e,aying voei are het another meet::.e.g for us. Mr. Plumber: Iou are going to be here, you and your neighbe s, --are going to be here on the 8th. Janet McAliley:Why can't we do this next week on the 16th. Mr. Plummer; We don't meet next week. We do meet, we are going to be here on the 8th, so put it off until the 8th. Janet McAliley: There is an item coming up, acceptance of a Flat of the property across the street from it., on 22nd Avenue and Secoffee St.rett that a number of us are interested in. Unidentiied: ;tiirat is the present status of the: deferral rule, that wo have 4 commissioners the next time. Is there a 3-str:iKe:-,._.nd-you-are--out rule, or haven't we come along that route yet? We are getting deferred to death here, and I am pretty tired of it. Mayor Ferre: Of course while these things arc deferred nochi.ng is That is a heck of a way from stopping something from being built. to you, and if somebody has objection, override me. There will be of this item. One way or the other, if there is a quorun here, it at the next commission meeting. Is that understood? No matter who here, this item will be voted upon. being built on it. Let me in courtesy no further deferral will be voted upon is here, or not Janet McA1iley: Mayor Ferre, when we were here 3 or 4 weeks ago, and it was deferred to tonight, I thought there was to be no further deferrals, and there was going to he a penalty for petitioners who, ----- Mayor Fer-e: Janet, what we did was, it came up for discussion, Rose made a point and I agreed with her, then there was some question about the legality of it. She was concerned. Rightfully so, about people that cay be sick, or in the hospital, and why should we penalize their. She made a motion that it be sent to the department for recomrnendetion, then we would have a hearing and bring, it up. When that happens we will let you know, and I happen to agree with premise, This item NO. 1. It and voted has now been deferred for the last time, until December 15. You will be will come up at 7 o'clock. As long as there is a quorun it will be heard upon at that time. ADJOURNMENT: There being no further business to come before the Commission on motion duly made and seconded, the meeting was adjourned at 9:30 o'clock P.M. ATTEST: :Jil..i'H G. ONGIE,CITY CLERK MAURICE FERRE MAYOR MATTY 1IIP.Ai, ASSISTANT CITY CLERK 2 CITY OF IVFAMI tEM NO DOCUMEtIT IDENTIFICATION GRANTING THE CONDTIoNAL USE AS LISTED IN ORDINANCE NO. 6871, ARTICLE CT, SECTION 1, (4-A) (a) TO PERMIT CONSTRUCTION OF A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT OF A PLANNED UNIT. NT MEETING DATE: November 10, 1977 COMMISSION ACTION RETRIEVAL CODE NO, R-77-895 77-895