HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1977-10-20 Minutes•
TY OF MIAMI
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COMMISSION
TES
OF MEETING HELD ON
October 20, 1977
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OFTY THE
HCITY CLERK
RALPH G. ONGIE
CITY CLERK
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SUBJECT
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INANCE OffON NO.
PACE NO,
1.
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4.
5.
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SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS AND MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS.
DISCUSSION AND DEFERRAL OF AGENDA ITEMS 4, 5
AND 7:
A. ITEM 4 DEFERRED TO NOVEMBER 10.
B. REFER 'DEFERMENTS' TO PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
C. RE -SCHEDULE NOVEMBER 17 MEETING.
DEFERRAL OF APPLICATION BY BRICKELL BAY CLUB
TO DECEMBER 22, FOR REVISION OF P.A.D. AT 2333
BRICKELL AVENUE.
DEFERRAL OF APPLICATION BY ANTONIO FERNANDEZ
CONCERNING ZONING BOARD'S DENIAL OF CONDITIONAL
USE TO PERMIT A P.U.N. AT 351 SW 29 AVE., TO
NOV. 10.
FIRST READING ORDINANCE: CHANGE ZONING
CLASSIFICATION AT 25 NW 34 ST. FROM R-2 TO C-5.
DENIAL OF APPLICATION BY NATIONAL CAR RENTAL
TO CHANGE ZONING AT APPROXIMATELY 560 NE 2ND
AVENUE.
APPROVE APPLICATION BY METRO TO PERMIT DREDGING
AND BULKHEADING OF DODGE ISLAND PORT.
FIRST READING ORDINANCE: CHANGE ZONING
CLASSIFICATION AT APPROXIMATELY 4101 NW 7TH
STREET FROM CA TO GU.
APPROVE APPLICATION BY FIRE DEPARTMENT -
ADDITION TO FIRE STATION #10 - 4101 NW 7TH
STREET.
GRANT 1-YEAR EXTENSION OF CONDITIONAL USE TO
PERMIT PAINT AND BODY SHOP LOCATED AT 441 NW
36TH STREET.
GRANT 1-YEAR EXTENSION OF CONDITIONAL USE TO
PERMIT EXPANSION OF EXISTING DRIVE-IN TELLER
FACILITY LOCATED AT 1699 SW 22 ST.
APPOINT PATRICIA KOLSKI AS A REGULAR MEMBER OF
THE ZONING BOARD.
DISCUSSION ITEM: MATTER OF 'OLD BUILDINGS
PREVIOUSLY OCCUPIED BY ONE TENANT WITH NO
PARKING FACILITIES' AND THEIR CONVERSION TO
MULTIPLE -USES.
STATUS REPORT ON MIAMI RIVERFRONT DEVELOPMENT
STUDY.
PRESENTATIONS
M- 77-822
Deferral
Deferral
First
Reading
M- 77-823
- 77-824
First
Reading
R- 77-825
R- 77-826
R- 77-827
M- 77-828
DISCUSSION
DISCUSSION
n i "O1977
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1 - 11
13 - 14
14 - 16
17 - 23
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24
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25
25 - 28
29 - 31
31 - 33
33 - 41
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF THE
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
* * * * * * * *
On the 20th day of October, 1977, the City Commission of Miami,
Florida, met at its regular meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan
American Drive, Miami, Florida in regular session.
The meeting was called to order at 2:15 A.M., by Mayor Ferre with
the following members of the Commission found to be present:
Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Rose Gordon
ViceMayor (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
ALSO PRESENT WERE:
Joseph R. Grassie, City Manager
R. L. Fosmoen, Assistant City Manager
George F. Knox, City Attorney
Ralph G. Ongie, City Clerk
Matty Hirai, Assistant City Clerk
1, SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS AND MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS.
1. Presentation of a Key to the City of Miami to
Linda J. Jernigan, denoted Queen of the Road by
Open Road Magazine. Ms. Jernigan is a lady
trucker who hauls rockets, airplane parts
and explosives across country. She is on a
public education tour stressing car care
maintenance, safety and self-sufficiency on the
road.
2. The "Partido Cubano-Americano" will present you with
a Diploma of Honor. Mr. Alberto Gandero, President;
Eladio Armesto, Vice -President; and Gregorio Silva,
Secretary; are here to make the presentation.
2. DISCUSSION AND DEFERRAL OF AGENDA ITEMS 4, 5 AND 7:
Al ITEM 4 DEFERRED TO NOVEMBER 10.
B. REFER 'DEFERMENTS' TO PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
C . RE -SCHEDULE NOVET'BER 17 MEETING.
Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, this is a Regular City of Miami,
Commission Meeting, dedicated to Planning and Zoning matters. We
apologize for being late, but we were dealing with City business and
therefore, we were detained, so I apologize for all of us for starting
late and making you wait. The first item before us number 1, is First
Reading Ordinance and the application by George...
Mr. Davis: Mr. Mayor, if I may --- there are three applications who
have requested a deferral on this agenda, they have requested the
deferral after the items were published and after the neighbors were
1
OCT 2 01971
r
notified and so I ask them to be present at the meeting here today
to ask for deferral, if you wish you could take care of those first.
Mayor Ferre: Well, tell me what the items are and what the...
Mr. Davis: Items number 4, number 5 and number 7.
Mayor Ferre: 4, 5, and 7 have ask for deferral.
Mr. Davis: Yes sir.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, is there anybody here on item number 4? Raise
your hands, alright, who is the applicant on that? Southeast Properties.
Alright, where...
Rev. Gibson: What is this 4, 5, and what?
Mayor Ferre: Is the 4, 5, and 7.
Mr. Davis: The attorney on item number 4, had to be out of town today
and called me and asked for deferral, I asked for the owner or a
representative of the owner to be here to ask for the deferral, I
hope someone is here.
Mayor Ferre: Is there anybody here representing Southeast Properties?
Rev. Gibson: They sent us a letter.
Mayor Ferre: Let me read this letter into the records, Hactner, Felts,
and Matters, is that it?
Mr. Davis: I'm talking about number 4, first. This is the item at
the corner of Dixie Highway and 22nd Avenue.
Mayor Ferre: Here it is, law office of Ross, Williams and Frances
S. Williams; Honorable Mayor and City Commission, and so on; Dear
Mayor Ferre, as attorney of record of the case of reference, I respectfully
request that the hearing scheduled October 20, 1977, on a petition
for a rezoning concerning the subject property be postponed, the
reason for this request is that the developer and the architect of the
project in question, are both out of the country and will not be back
in time for the hearing, furthermore, I will also be leaving town in
an urgent matter tomorrow October 20th, and consequently there will
not be anyone available to plead the case before you on behalf the
petitioners. Yours very truly, Armando De La Casa.
Mr. Hunter: Gentlemen, I'm here for representing Southeast Properties
for Item number 9, item number 4, is being handled as you stated by
the architect, developer and attorney. I am an officer of the
Corporation which owns the property. I'm unfamiliar with the situation
and in view of that and in view of the request for deferral which you
read, I am simply here to state that it is an actual request and we
do request that it be deferred.
Mr. Davis: It would be the Commission's wish whether or not you
wish to carry on or whether you wish to defer it, I think it would
have to be a deferral sir.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I'll tell you the... well, lets hear from the people
who are here on this matter, anybody want to speak on it? No, not on
the matter itself, on the question of deferral. Now, as you know
we in this Commission,... I can't think of a single case in the eight
years that I've served here where we've ever taken up a matter when
there has been a deferral question.
Mr. Reboso: Mr. Mayor, I think in the hand we should have a policy
in which the people if they want to withdraw an item, should be a
certain time before the meeting. I think we have to pass a resolution
or something, because it is unfair, at a Zoning meeting, yes I can
see it but at this time of the day when the people are missing work
I think we should have a resolution or something where the people should
file at least a week in advance if they are going to do that.
OCT 2 01977
1
Mr. King: My name: is Dennis King, 2915 Emathla Street and I'm
Vice -President of Tigertail'Association, we have taken great pains
to have representatives here and we have published and circulated notices
to our members and we have taken off from work and I think this is
a great inconvience to have to undergo this at the very last minute,
I would hope at least if this matter is deferred, that it would be
deferred to an evening meeting when we will not have to be inconvenienced
taken away from work and would be able to come back again.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, I think thats reasonable, whats the will of this
Commission?
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I...
Mayor Ferre: He said that we ought to have an evening meeting, I think
that definitely...
Rev. Gibson: Yea, I agree with that gentleman, because people had to
get off from work and to want to do this thing...
Mr. Davis: To clarify the situation, I was requested on all three of
these items during this passed week for deferral after all of the notices
had gone out and too late to...
Mayor Ferre: When do the notices go out?
Mr. Davis: Notices go out by law ten days ahead of time.
Mr. Reboso: Ten days ahead of time, well Mr. Mayor, if it is in order
I would like to offer a motion, that people that wants to withdraw
from now on, have to withdraw ten days prior.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute, its defer.
Mr. Reboso: Defer.
Mr. Plummer: There is a difference between withdraw and defer.
Mr. Reboso: Thats right.
Mayor Ferre: No, you don't mean withdraw, you mean defer.
Mr. Reboso: Defer.
Mayor Ferre: Alright.
Mr. Reboso: Ten days.
Mr. Davis: This is exactly what we have had as a standard in our
office, that we will not accept any deferrals after an item has been
pubished, but to this point we have not been able to prevent anybody
from coming up and asking for a deferral.
Mayor Ferre: Yea, thats what I want to talk from a practical point
of view, you've been around all these years, do you ever recall of a
case when the attorney or the client or the architect or who ever it
is decides to defer, that we haven't deferred?
Mr. Davis: I don't know of any Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Plummer: Before you vote on that motion, you know I've learned
after eight years of being a Commissioner, if you talk to people they
really won't listen to you, but if you talk to their wallet by god
they'll listen. Now, if they want to reschedule which cost these
people, which we can't compensate them but at least all of these
people from City that they pay a 50% penalty or a 50% fee for a
rehearing.
Mayor Ferre: Well, why 50% let them forfeit the 100% and pay the
man all over again.
Mr. Plummer: Well, you know I don't have any...
OCT 201977
APPLAUSE:
Mr. Plummer: Boy, you are a tiger today.
Mayor Ferre: The point I'm trying to make is that I... look from a
practical point of view, there is nothing you can do when somebody
decides just not to show up and have their attorneys and everbody else,
you got to put teeth into it, otherwise its meaningless, its the same
thing over and over and over.
Mrs. Gordon: May I get a clarification Mr. Mayor? What is the reason
for the desire to defer, please sir.
Mr. King: Madam, I know of no more than Mr. Davis, has
I am here on another matter.
Mr. Davis: The Southeast Bank, Mrs. Gordon has nothing
application, he happens to be here on item number 9 and
matter of courtesy, because these two own the property.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, where is the applicants on number 4?
Mr. Davis: The applicants is according to the letter which Mr. Ferre
got is...
Mayor Ferre: Which I got this morning.
Mr. Davis: That you got this morning.
Mayor Ferre: I got that letter this morning.
Mr. Davis: And I had a phone call the being of the week on this, the
attorney is out of time and the applicants are both out of the country.
Mr. Plummer: Well, let me ask you this Bob, we use to have a system
when I first went on the zoning board 14 years ago, that there was a
denial with prejudice and without prejudice, now if we deny this lets
just use this since we're talking about item 4, without prejudice giving
them the right to pay another fee, full 100% I'll go with the Mayor,
to come back and have this heard at a second time not keeping the
six month ruling of course, can we do that Mr. Knox?
Mr. Davis: I think that I can state this too, that our Ordinance
precludes, it doesn't include anything about prejudice and not prejudice
it merely states that if the change of zoning is denied, no other can't
come back for another application for a year, without prejudice or with it.
presented,
to do with the
step up as a
Mrs. Gordon: Who is the applicant on number four, specifically?
Mr. Davis: Who is the applicant?
Mayor Ferre: Armando De La Casa is the attorney, I don't know who is
the owner of the property.
SPEAKER UNKNOWN: Southeast properties is the owner of the property
Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Davis: Southeast, its on the contract of the property.
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, may I in, to Plummer's question ---Mr. Davis?
Mr. Davis: Yes sir.
Mayor Ferre: Now, Mr. Plummer's question, you're talking about a fee...
Mr. Davis: Yes sir.
Mayor Ferre: The Charter doesn't speak to any of that.
Mr. Davis: Oh, no not...
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, what I'm saying is that this question of your
OCT .?OL977
fee structure, I agree with Reboso, but I think you got to put ---
and I agree with Plummer, which is you got to put teeth on it. 50%
isn't enough, I think if anybody walks away and we defer which is what
we always end up doing on these cases, you got to forfeit the full amount
and have to put up this fee again, you know.
Mr. Davis: We will present a law on this if you wish, the Code would
have to be change on it.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, change the Code.
Mr. Davis: Well, we'll present it to you then sir.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, there is a motion then, is that the sense of
motion?
Mrs. Gordon: Repeat your motion please.
Mr. Reboso: The motion is that from now on everybody that want to
defer an item has to pay a 100% of the fee again.
Mr. Davis: A 100% sir?
Mr. Plummer: A 100%.
Mrs. Gordon: That doesn't apply to this though.
Mayor Ferre: No you can't do a retroactive...
Mrs. Gordon: Well, I think perhaps if thats the intent, that that
intent ought to be conveyed to the Planning Department and have them
come back to us with a recommendation.
Mr. Plummer: I don't, I think lets do it.
Mrs. Gordon: I mean there are other ways and there maybe better ways
of handling it, but I'd like to know how many people came down here
this afternoon on item number 4, how many are here? Would you let me
see? Well, you know I think we can here this case, I mean its a case
that has been through the Planning Board and we have recommendations
here from the Planning Department and a lot of people are here today
and I don't really think its fair, honestly to defer it.
Mr. Plummer: Well, Rose, thats not the question, the motion on the
floor doesn't speak to this particular item--- oh, I second the motion,
I'm sorry.
Mayor Ferre: We do have a motion on the floor with a second.
Mr. Reboso: The reason I make the motion is because we have three
items today that people all want to defer.
Mrs. Gordon: I realize that, but its not going to affect any of those
three, your motion is a motion of intent and it has a specific penalty
which may or may not be the proper procedure. In my opinion, your
idea that there is something wrong in the system that would permit
a deferment is correct, but I don't think that you or I ought to set
the penalty at this time, I think we should allow the Planning Department
make a recommendation as like to amend your motion or add a substitute
motion if you would permit or if you would take an amendment.
Mayor Ferre: He doesn't have to permit it, I'll accept it as the
chairman here, I will accept a substitute motion, go ahead.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok, I would therefore, by way of a substitution and
with the intent that Mr. Reboso has in mind, refer this matter to the
Planning Department for a recommendation as to the best procedure, the
best method of handling and avoiding deferment taking place at the
time of the hearing as have been done today.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, is there a second to the substitute motion?
Rev. Gibson: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Now, is there further discussion.
Mr. Plummer: In other words let me just interject something here,
had this rule been in effect today they would have had their choice
of asking for a deferral fully realizing it would cost them another
$32,00 or be here and let me tell you something there ain't no question
we would have been hearing it today.
Mayor Ferre: Well, in other words look, we have to live with the
practical aspects of what happens in this Commission and I don't care
you know, the fact is that I've been serving is this City since 1967
and I don't remember ---and I was absent for three years ---I don't
remember one single time, not one, when somebody asked for a deferral
that it wasn't granted, not one. Now, you know, and the point is...
Mr. Plummer: That will just about pay your salary for a day.
Mayor Ferre: Yes man, of course. To the motion.
Ms. Rose: I have been here before, before this Commission and I have
been, you know, organizing neighborhoods and coming here and I...
Mr. Ongie: Your name for the record please.
Ms. Rose: Briget Rose, 201 Secoffee Street, Coconut Grove. I remember
we came here and we had a whole room of people and the applicant was
deferred and in my honest opinion this is just one of their ways to
discourage people from coming, because they know after meeting and
meeting people will not turn up again.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, but the point is, my statement to you was, that
I don't recall in ten years one case when somebody has asked for a
deferral, that it has not been granted, I asked Mr. Davis, if he remembers
and he doesn't...
Ms. Rose: Oh, that it has not been granted, right, it hasn't been.
Mayor Ferre: Miss, I don't ever remember when somebody said look
I can't make it because I'm going to be out of town or I'm sick or
somebody is doing it and we haven't given that person the opportunity.
Ms. Rose: I have a feeling that if it pass and if today I feel this
is sort of a harassment though.
INAUDIBLE:
Ms. Rose: The people, because they are always going to lose out.
Mayor Ferre: If I know the people of Secoffee Street and the Tigertail
Association, this is not going to deter you and your association from
being present.
Ms. Rose: It not going to deter us, but we're really getting sick
and tied of these meetings, having to organize people coming and
the Planning Board had a meeting which was detained for a week.
Mayor Ferre: We'll have the next one in the evening, where you're
have plenty of people. Alright, now we have a motion, a substitute
motion which is presented to the Planning Department and a second
and have them recommend to us which way... now, any discussion on the
motion?
Mr. Plummer: Yea, I think it should be sent with the Commission's
expressed intent that a 100% fee be considered.
Mayor Ferre: Could you accept that as part of the motion?
Mr. Plummer: Thats notpart of the motion.
Mrs. Gordon: Perhaps the orginal motion, but I think that we could
leave them the leeway of coming up with recommendations, I think
they are professionals and since they are professionals they ought to
come up with a professional approach to it.
OCT 201977
Mayor Ferre: Alright, in discussion let me say that I'm going to
vote with the motion, but I want it to state into the record, that
I think that what ever you come back with... you're professional
and you have professional prerogatives, but I want to say that I'm
not going to be satisfied with anything less, anything less than
a real strong bit and by that I mean a forfeiture of the fee or more
and if you want to come up with more, I'm perfectly willing to go along
with that too, because I think if somebody defers they ought to have
to pay for it.
Mrs. Gordon: Let me tell you why I made this substitution Mr. Mayor,
acts of god you know, and other circumstances could be a good and
valid reason and I don't think that we can devise a proper ordinance
or proper procedure, you know, haphazardly as one moment in time and
I think that carefully thought out we can have a good way to handle
the situation.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, there is a substitute motion, further discussion?
Call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Gordon, who
moved its adoption.
MOTION NO. 77-821
A MOTION DIRECTING THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT TO
INVESTIGATE AND DETERMINE THE BEST METHOD FOR
HANDLING DEFERMENT OF PLANNING & ZONING ITEMS
PRESENTED TO THE CITY COMMISSION.
Upon being seconded by Vice -Mayor Gibson, the motion was passed
and adopted by the following vote -
AYES: Commissioner Rose Gordon
Commissioner J. L. Plummer
Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Vice -Mayor Theodore Gibson
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
Mr. Plummer: Tell them professionals we want an answer back in
thirty days.
Mr. Davis: Try Mr. Mayor, to set a date for this, normally this
would have been back on November 17th. Perhaps, you want an evening
meeting on November 17th.
Mr. Plummer: We've not voted on Item 4 yet.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, let me ask you... when I see all these people
out in the audience I just question, I know we've done it before,
it may not be a good thing, I don't know, but can we hear them, so
that... I was just thinking that that would put their position on
the record.
Mayor Ferre: Fine, if you want to do that, I'm perfectly willing
to do i t .
Rev. Gibson: I wouldn't want... please, I have no desire to vote,
but I was just thinking about the people who may not want to come
back, but thats alright with me.
Mrs. Gordon: They may not be able to come back.
Mayor Ferre: They may not be able to come back, I have no... Father
Gibson, if thats what you want to do, I'm perfectly willing to
proceed with what ever the majority of this Commission wants to do,
I'm--- you know, ---so you tell me what you want.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, why don't we leave it to those people who
are being inconvenienced, by asking this question, ---any of those
that are here on item 4, who do not feel that you can return when
this would be heard at our regular meeting in November, state your
objections on the record now so that you won't be back and your
objections will be in record, but as long as you fully understand
that this decision is not going to be made today, so if there is
any of you that come under that category that can't be here in
November, then come on up and lets take your testimony and your
objections and possibly handle it that way. I think thats a fair
way to do it.
Mrs. Gordon: Its fair.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, on the record here we have a letter from
Mr. and Mrs. Leon Sugarman, and Doug and Ruth Sugarman, and
Wildon, who have signed the letter and I'm submitting it to the
record,--- evidently they couldn't be here today, so I'll submit it
to the record. Is there anybody else who would like to speak at
this time on item 4?
Ms. Alexanders: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, I'm Selma
Alexanders, 2323 South Miami Ave. I'd like to speak to the question
of the deferrals generally, 4,5, and what ever. I happen to be here
on number 5, but I'm a member of Tigertail Association as well and
so I'm concerned with 4. Just because this Commission has always
granted deferrals in the past, doesn't make it an ordinance or rule
of procedure, its a sort of practice and a courtesy, but in two of
these cases I know that there were many objections by mail, many
objections by personal appearance and there are plenty of people
down here for personal appearance at this time and its my opinion
---for what its worth--- that you should hear these, if you choose
to defer it in your decision thats your business, but I feel that
you should decide, because in both case that I'm speaking of, both
the Zoning Board and the Department were definitely opposed to
granting what ever variances were asked for and I do think that its
unfair and somewhere, sometime you have to take a stand on these
things, just because in 14 years or 8 years, deferrals were always
granted doesn't mean that they should be granted at this point.
Mayor Ferre: What would you recommend Selma Alexanders?
Ms. Alexanders: I would recommend that you hear these things right
now, if you can't come to a decision thats your problem, but I think
probably on the bases of what the Planning Department has to recommend
and what the objectors have to say, that you can make a valid decision.
Mayor Ferre: Selma, you know, even in the Federal Courts and even
in the Circuit Courts of this State, when ever you have adversary
positions, usually when people ask for deferrals, if they are within
reason they are granted, you know. Now, what you're asking us to
do is to hear one side and not the other and then decide, is that it?
Ms. Alexanders: Well, I think this thing possibly should go to the
court anyway,...
Mayor Ferre: In other words they forfeited their rights.
Ms. Alexanders: I mean I'm thinking in terms of Zoning Boards of
Adjustments, that when they deny, they don't have this kind of
appeal, they have an ultimate place to go, they can go to the court.
Mr. Plummer: But, you're taking an natural assumption Selma, that
they're going to do that.
Ms. Alexanders: Of course, I'm also assuming that you're going to
follow the recommendations of your board and department, but which
you sometimes don't always do, but thats your promise.
Mr. Plummer: Just like lower Boards.
Mayor Ferre: In other words, you feel that it ought to go from the
Zoning Board to the courts.
Ms. Alexanders: Yes, isn't that the way it goes?
OCT 201977
Mt, Plummer: No, thats without the hearing.
Mayor Ferre: Without the elected officials.
Ms. Alexanders: Well, that was initially one of the recommendations
of the task force, initially.
Mayor Ferre: Well, one of the recommendations of the task force and
one of the fecommendations of the Miami Herald and many others, is
that we eliminate all elected officials and have a pointed professional
board and from there go to courts, you know, that would be great,
but we don't go through the elected process.
Ms. Alexanders: But, I do think in all fairness, these people are
here and I think they should be heard and I think you should consider
it on that basis anyway, I think everyone should be heard. Then if
you decide to defer that, thats something else.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, again if anybody wish to be heard at this time
you feel that they are not going to be able to attend the next meeting
on November 17th, I will recognize you and you'll give us your name
and then of course, if you speak now, I assume you will not speak on
November 17th.
Mr. Ealey: My name is M. T., I just wish to understand something
I'm one of those in opposition to the appeal of the applicant,
Antonio...
INAUDIBLE:
Mr. Ealey: Well, I thought he--- I'm sorry I thought the Mayor
was talking about all of these that asked for a deferment. Excuse
me sir, I'm sorry.
Mayor Ferre: I'll recognize you for item 5 or item 7, after--- on
item 4, only. Is there anybody wishes to address the Commission?
Mr. Darmer: My name is Edward Darmer, I live at 2835 Crystal Ct.,
I agree with the previous speaker, I think that this Board Commission,
should hear and make their decision on item 4. We have a number of
people here who at inconvenience to them, have shown up to present
our side of the case, then I think we have a right to be heard and
a decision to be rendered.
Mayor Ferre: Anybody else?
Mr. King: Yes sir, ---Dennis King, I came up before--- I'd tried to
take a poll here and November 17th, is a very difficult day, we feel
that we would like to make a presentation, but it should be made
with both our sides present,--- however, November 17th, is very
difficult.
Mayor Ferre: Well, what day would you prefer?
Mr. King: The next meeting after that.
Mayor Ferre: That puts it off till December.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor?
Mr. Plummer: What about the evening of November 17th?
Mayor Ferre: How about November loth?
Mr. King: November loth, would be better--- November loth, in
the evening would be better.
Mayor Ferre: I'll tell you I'm not going to be here November 17th,
anyway a:, I have already told you, because I'm going to be in
Isarel, so for me it would be much better if it were on November
10th.
8
41.116
OCT 201977
Mr. Reboso: In the evening, so everybody can come.
Mayor Ferre: Well, then November the 20...
Mr. Plummer: Well, unless what you're planning on doing is eliminating
the meeting of the 17th and having an evening meeting after the
regular Commission Meeting, I'm agreeable to that.
Mrs. Cordon: On which day J.L.?
Mayor Ferre: I don't think...
Mrs. Gordon: On what day?
Mr. Plummer: On the loth.
Mayor Ferre: Thats agreeable.
Mr. Reboso: I think the Zoning meeting Rose, should he in the evening,
Because its more easy for the people to be here.
Mayor Ferre: Certainly, in neighborhood matters anyway.
Mr. Reboso: This is neighborhood matters.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I have no objections to the loth.
Mr. Plummer: I make a motion that the zoning meeting of November
17th, be canceled and to be rescheduled for the entire agenda on
November 10th, starting a 7 O'clock.
Mayor Ferre: No, I think you ought to start it earlier than that.
Mr. Plummer: 6 O'clock.
Mr. Reboso: I second the motion.
Mr. Plummer: People got to eat dinner Maurice.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, but I tell you, people having dinner, but I'm
sick and tired of going 12 and 14 hours and skipping lunch and
skipping dinner and skipping everything else and you know, I want
to get home before midnight.
Mr. King: We'll schedule this at 6 O'clock for the first item,
is that alright, on November loth?
Mrs. Gordon: You're taking people away from their dinner.
Mayor Ferre: Well, then make it at 7 O'clock.
Mr. Plummer: Thats what I said earlier.
Mayor Ferre: We'll start the meeting at 6, with other items and
then have this item schedule at 7, ok.
Mr. King: You're going to start this one at 7.
Mayor Ferre: 7, thats right, we'll schedule all of these at 6.
Mrs. Gordon: I want to say something now Mr. Mayor, we generally
get in here at 9 O'clock in the mornings ok, and many times we stay
here till 10 O'clock at night on regular agenda items, sometimes
we've been lucky lately and we've broken up early, but I beleive
truly that if you're going to schedule zoning as a separate issue
for that day, that you've schudule as starting at 7 and allow us
at least the freedom of going to rest for an hour or what ever
prior to that zoning hearing, so we can do justice at least to what
we're listening to.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, I accept.
OCT 201977
Mr. Reboso: I agree with that, 7 O'clock.
Mayor Ferre: Ok, make it at 7 O'clock.
Mr. Plummer: I heard that somewhere before.
Mayor Ferre: Well, we're be here until 1 O'clock,
but thats alright, schedule it at 7.
Mr. King: You want the meeting to start at 7?
Mayor Ferre: 7 O'clock, with this item. Alright, we have a motion
and a second, further discussion, call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer,
who moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 77-822
is What it means,
A MOTION DECLARING THE INTENT OF THE CITY
COMMISSION TO CHANGE THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED
PLANNING & ZONING MEETING OF NOVEMBER 17, 1977
AT 2:00 P.M. to NOVEMBER 10, 1977, AT 7:00 P.M.
upon being seconded by Commissioner Reboso, the motion was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Vice -Mayor Theodore Gibson
Commissioner Rose Gordon
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
3, DEFERRAL OF APPLICATION BY BRICKELL BAY CLUB TO DECEMBER 220 FOR REVISION
OF P.M. AT 2333 BRICKELL AVENUE,
Mayor Ferre: Now, tell us about item number 5.
Mr. Davis: Item number 5, the people are here and will do their
own explanation.
Mr. Feldman: Mr. Mayor, My name is Bennett Feldman, I live at
2333 Brickell Avenue, I am president of Brickell Bay Club Condominium
Association. We requested a deferral of item 5, Mr. Hacker, who is
organizing this and have been coordinating the work was taken to the
hospital Tuesday for a case of hepatitis, Mrs. Hacker is here and
is unable to present the case on behalf of the Condominium Association
and respectfully request a deferral on this item for that reason
sir.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, is there a motion?
Mr. Plummer: Well, wait a minute are there objectors?
Mayor Ferre: I'm going to listen to the objectors J. L., this the
same thing that we did for the last one. Is there anybody here as
an objector ?
Mr. Plummer: Sir were you here for 5?
Mayor Ferre: Alright, are there anyother objectors? If not, moved
by Plummer, second by Reboso, that this matter be taken up at the
next meeting which will be November 10th. Is that enough time for
you now?
Mr. Plummer: To get over the hepatitis.
11
OCT 201977
Mr. Feldman: The next meeting after, we're afraid he may not
be out of the hospital.
Mayor Ferre: The next meeting is in December, you want to do it
in December?
Mr. Feldman: May we have until December sir?
Mayor Ferre: Alright, reschedule this one, is that alright with you?
Mr. Davis: Any time you wish it. This has been being deferred
now since last spring.
Mr. Plummer: Now, wait a minute, fairness as I recall this situation
this is a situation where they've done what they want and they are
now trying to get it made legal, correct?
Mr. Feldman: Thats Correct.
Mr. Plummer: I think November is a better day.
Mr. Davis: This has been deferred many times.
Mr. Plummer: I think November is a better day.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, just a minute, the motion is that this be
deferred to November loth, as a motion and a second, further discussion?
Yes mam?
Mrs. Hacker: I just want to make one point in the request for
further deferral, that is two meetings two meetings from now, it does
not have anything to do with the fact that the actions are even taken
but rather that this is a type of illness ---November loth can only
be three weeks away as I see it.
Mayor Ferre: You're talking about the applicant has hepatitis?
Mrs. Hacker: Yes and he's in the hospital currently.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, Mr. Mayor, when talked before about acts of god,
I think this is an example, I think ---you know, one of those things.
Mrs. Hacker: I would like to expedite it as much as you would
but I wonder if it would be possible to somehow determine if November
10th is possible,--- I thats fine...
Mrs. Gordon: What is your position?
Mayor Ferre: Excuse, how are you related?
Mrs. Hacker: I am his wife, Mrs. Hacker.
Mayor Ferre: Your husband is in the hospital?
Mrs. Hacker: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: At the present time with hepatitis.
Mrs. Hacker: They anticipate his getting out, probably in about a
week, so thats my only concern.
Mrs. Gordon: And the gentleman that spoke, ---you are the attorney?
Mr. Feldman: No, I'm the president of the Condominium Association.
Mrs. Gordon: And your name.
Mr. Feldman: Dennis Feldman.
Mr. Plummer: There is no one else there that can handle the presentation'
12
OCT 201977
INAUDIBLE:
Mayor Ferre: Bennett, how long has this been dragging on?
Mr. Feldman: Since about April or May.
Mayor Ferre: Look, I personally have no objections--- I mean, its
not the mans fault that he has hepatitis, so I think, you know...
Mr. Plummer: Move it to December.
Mrs. Gordon: If he had his , he'd rather be out.
Mayor Ferre: Alright.
Mrs. Hacker: Would it be possible, if there would be any change,
for me to contact you and have it moved up, because...
Mayor Ferre: No, look...
Mrs. Gordon: We have to do it in December, Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: No, make it for December, alright.
Mrs. Hacker: Do you know the date of that meeting yet?
Mr. Davis: Off hand I don't, it will be the third Thursday in December,
unless the Commission wishes to set a date.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, there is a motion and a second to defer item
5, to the zoning meeting in December, further discussion, call the
roll
A .MOTION TO DEFER THIS MATTER TO DECEMBER 15th WAS.PASSED AND ADOPTED
BY A UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THE COMDMISSION.
4. DEFERRAL OF APPLICATION BY ANTONIO FERNANDEZ CONCERNING ZONING BOARD S
DENIAL OF CONDITIONAL USE TO PERMIT A P.U.N. AT 351 SW 29 AVE.' TO Nov. 10.
Mr. Plummer: What about item 7?
Mr. Davis: Is the applicant here on item 7, please?
Mr. Plummer: The applicant.
Mr. Davis: The applicant doesn't speak English, Mr. Perez, of my
office will interpret it for him, his attorney is the one who is out
of town.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, we have item number 7, which wants a deferral.
Go ahead sir.
Mr. Plummer: Well, its very simple, why go through all of this, the
man says is attorney's not here and thats why he wants the deferral.
Now, lets heard from the objectors, ---why put him through it--- he made
it--- I don't speak spanish, but thats it, right? ---right. See how
good of an interpretor I am, I don't even have to listen to him
speak to interpret. Who is the objectors, do you have any objections
sir of November loth, in the evening, coming back?
Mr. Ealey: May I ask this Commission, please. What is the reason
for the deferment?
Mr. Plummer: He just said sir, his attorney is not in town.
Mr. Ealey: Well, have no attorneys as objectors, I just wondered
what difference that made, since all through these past proceedings
there has been no attorney for either side present.
12
OCT 201977
Mr, Plummer: Well, sir...
Mr. Ealey: I just wondered why.
Mr. Plummer: I will say to you that 80% to 90% of the presentations
that come before this Commission, are represented by counsels.
Mr. Ealey: I see.
Mr. Plummer: Call the attorneys Hartfield.
Mr. Ealey: Let me pull all our records.
Mr. Plummer: We'd love to have you back for Thanksgiving.
Mr. Ealey: November 17th--- November loth.
Mr. Plummer: In the evening.
Mr. Ealey: Thats about three weeks in the evening.
Mr. Plummer: Right.
Mr. Ealey: Very good,...
Mr. Plummer: You agree?
Mr. Ealey: Because, we went through great lenght today to come here.
Mr. Plummer: I move that we defer item 7, to November loth.
Mr. Ealey: I just wanted to state, Mr. Perez tells me that it was
not an attorney, it was his nephew, who was his original translator
who's not here and he's the one who is really the applicant.
Mr. Plummer: Fine.
Mrs. Gordon: J. L., you didn't read his mind properly
Mayor Ferre: Alright, we have a motion and a second, further discussion
on the deferral of item 7? Call the roll
A MOTION TO DEFER THIS MATTER TO NEXT MEETING WAS PASSED AND ADOPTED
BU A UNANIMOUS VOTE OF THE COMMISSION.
5. FIRST READING ORDINANCE: CHANGE ZONING CLASSIFICATION AT 25 NW 34 ST,
FROM R-2 TO C-5.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, we are now on item 1, first reading ordinance,
application by George Peace, to change the zoning of 25 N.W. 34, from
R2-05, the Planning Department recommended a denial, the Zoning Board
recommended 7 to 0, one objection by mail. Is there an objector here,
are any objectors present on item number one? Now, Mr. Fosmoen, as
I recalled and memory serves me right, several months ago, this matter
came before the Commission, we couldn't come to a conclusion on it
because there was justice to a certain degree and what Mr. Peace is
asking for, on the other hand we didn't--- we want to if possible,
avoid spot zoning,so we've turned it back to you with the premise
that we were hoping that you would be able to work some kind of a
variance out or it was a discussion that the whole area should be
rezoned from R-2 to C-5 and you were going to come back with some
kind of a solution, so tell us what the solution is.
Mr. Fosmoen: We spend some time looking at this item and presented
it to you in your packet, as a rather lengthy report on the condition
of the neighborhood Mr. Mayor. I think this is one of those instances
14
OCT 2 01977
where the hard line of zoning probably creates every difficult
situation for Mr. Pea4ce and that ke has an existing operation.
Mrs. Gordon: If you speak louder we can bear you better.
Mr. Fosmoen: 1 think that this is one of those instances when the
hard line of zoning presents a very difficult situation to an individual
and to a neighborhood. Mr. Peace has a working operation across the
street from the property and in question he employs a number of people
in the neighborhood, we have net on a number of occasion with Mr.
Peace, he has presented us and indicates that he is going to present
to this Commission a covenant on the property, that would limit the
use of the property to his wood working operation.
Mayor Ferre: Did you do that voluntarily?
Mr. Peace: Yes.
Mr. Fosmoen: Be did that voluntarily. We are recommending to the
Commission, that if you wish you pass this item on the first reading
today, that we, our attorney staff and Mr. Peace's attorney get
together and work out the formal language of that covenant before
the second reading and I think that we can work out the problem
thats been present.
Mayor Ferre: Is that your recommendation?
Mr. Fosmoen: Yes, with the covenant, otherwise, the department would
have the same position.
Mayor Ferre: I understand, with the covenant, moved by Gibson, is
there a second?
Mr. Plummer: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Seconded by plunmier, further discussion? Mr. Knox, you
want to say something?
Mr. Knox: No, I was just going to read the ordinance.
Mayor Ferre: Alright. anvbodv else want to discuss this? Read the
ordinance. Alright, let the record reflect and Mr. Peace, 2 think
you better say this in your own voice ---that the covenants -that we are
discussing are voluntary on your part, you're voluntaring these covenant:
Mr. Peace: Yes sir,'I'm voluntaring, I have a copy of it for -each
one of the Commissioners.
Mayor Ferre: You're not being in any way forced to-do this--- no
body ---this is your voluntary action and you're willing to do this
because you feel this is the best way to solve the problem, is that
correct?
Mr. Peace: Yes sir, I'm very much interested in getting the property
rezoned, so that we can use it.
Mayor Ferre: Thats not the question to you Mr. Peace, the question
is, is it voluntary on your part--- the covenants that are going to
be part of the:procedures?
Mr. Peace: Yes sir.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, thank you.
'Mrs. Gordon: I have a question, do you own the lot to the west,
number 26?
+lir. 'Peace: 'Yes mam.
Mrs. Gordon: You .do.
Y.
15
OCT 201977
Mr. Peace: Yes mam.
Mrs. Gordon: If this passes and evgn with the covenant, lot number
26 would be subject to a higher usage than it presently have,would
you include in that covenant, that you would construct nothing on
there higher, of greater intensity than its present construction,
permissible construction, which is R2.
Mr. Fosmoen: Commissioner Gordon, the proposal includes that lot
for parking as a conditional use.
Mrs. Gordon: Yea, the transitional use, however, permits a budding
side line, ---you know, you know what I'm talking about and so in
that covenant, Mr. Fosmoen, that you are going to get together with or
who ever is going to get together with somebody else and prepare,
prepare that that also be included, ok.
Mr. Fosmoen: Ok.
Rev. Gibson: Ok, the roll.
Mayor Ferre: Call the roll please.
AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED -
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 6871, IN THE
COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE FOR THE CITY OF
MIAMI, BY CHANGING THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION OF
LOTS 27 AND 28, BLOCK 7, WYNWOOD PARK (523),BEING
APPROXIMATELY 25 N.W. 34th STREET, FROM R-2 TO C-5
AND BY MAKING THE NECESSARY CHANGES IN THE ZONING
DISTRICT MAP MADE A PART OF THE SAID ORDINANCE NO.
6871 BY REFERENCE AND DESCRIPTION IN ARTICLE III,
SECTION 2 THEREOF, BY REPEALING ALL ORDINANCES,
CODE SECTIONS, OR PARTS THEREOF IN CONFLICT; AND
CONTAINING A SEVERABILITY PROVISION.
Was introduced by Vice -Mayor Gibson and seconded by Commissioner
Plummer and passed on its first reading by title by the following vote -
AYES: Rev. Gibson, Mrs. Gordon, Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso and Mayor Ferre.
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
The City Attorney read the ordinance into the record and stated
that copies had been furnished to the commissioners and that copies
were available to the public.
16
OCT 201977
6. DENIAL OF APPLICATION BY NATIONAL CAR RENTAL TO CHANGE ZONING AT APPROXIMATELY
560 « 2ND AVENUE.
Mayor Ferre: Take up item number 2.
Mr. Davis: Item number 2, is an application by the National Car
Rental to change the zoning as shown on the map on the wall from
C-3 to C-4. The Applicant can make his presentation.
Rev. Gibson:
Mr. Plummer:
Mr. Fosmoen:
Mr. Plummer:
Number 3.
Number 2.
This is item 2.
Whats presently on the property?
Mr. Davis: There is presently an abandoned fill in station on the
cite at this time.
Mr. Vigaren: Its not abondoned, I beleive.
Mr. Davis: Stand corrected, there is a station on it.
Mr. Plummer: Thats on the west side of 2nd avenue?
Rev. Gibson: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Thats right next to the laundry?
SPEAKER UNKNOWN: Yes.
Rev. Gibson: Yes.
Mr. Vigaren: My name is Jack Vigaren, and I am representing
Car Rental of Minneapolis.
Rev. Gibson: In the mike please.
Mr. Plummer: Talk a little louder.
Mr. Vigaren: My name is Jack Vigaren, representing
we are headquartered in Minneapolis. This property
zoned C-3, which allows for parking of 20 vehicles
repair or maintenance other than gasing, we want it
for the purpose of parking more than 20 vehicles as
the drawing there and for the purpose of our being able to install
a car wash next to the facility or in conjunction with the building.
Its contiguous to see forward this point. Presently contiguous to
see forward ---and I think Morton--- you have any question specific?
National
Mr. Plummer: C-4 to the north of that?
Mr. Vigaren: Yes.
National Rental,
is presently being
and no other
change to C-4,
indicated on
Mr. Plummer: Do I understand him to say to put in a car wash he's
got to go to a C-4?
Mr. Davis: Yes sir, thats correct.
Mr. Plummer: Thats ridiculous.
Mr. Davis: Thats what the law is.
Mr. Plummer: Well thats a ridiculous law.
Mrs. Gordon: I want to say what is even more ridiculous than anything
''I"R!" IT7Ir11 !PIA!!
17
OCT 201977
else thats being heard here today. I don't whether its two years
or three years ago, we spent $90,000 for a comprehensive study of
the downtown area and I would like to know where it is at this
point and time Mr. Fosmoen, please.
Mr. Fosmoen: We presented to the planning advisory board last night
and I intend to give to the Commission further information, the staff
responses to all of the committees and our recommendations on C-3
zoning within the downtown area and our next step is to go back to
all the committee chair persons and meet with them and if we can
come to some understand with them, prepare an ordinance for this
Commission's consideration.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, I don't know, I have never in my entire experience
zoning, ever found so many obstacles being put in the way of comprehensive
planning and zoning and had this not being the case, I don't think
that this application would be before us today because these people
and everybody else would be on notice of what is expected to be
constructed in the downtown area and I personally don't think that this
should even attempt and this is directed at the applicant ---should
even attempt to make any kind of zoning changes now, we are too close
to hopefully getting to a conclusion on a zoning plan, am I wrong
Mr. Fosmoen, are we years away from a conclusion still?
Mr. Fosmoen: No mam, not in my opinion.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok, what is your opinion on time?
Mr. Fosmoen: Well, first of all this use wouldn't be permitted within
the constraints of the WMRT plan or within some reasonable zoning
ordinance,
Mrs. Gordon: It would be permitted.
Mr. Fosmoen: It would not be permitted.
Mrs. Gordon: It would not be permitted, then therefore, there...
Mr. Fosmoen: It is our opinion that this doesn't support the planning
principals that were laid out for downtown and we have told that to
the others.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok, that takes care of it.
Mr. Vigaren: I have prepared copies for all you if you wish.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Fosmoen, while he is passing these things out and
we are talking, please tell me why you and your department and the
planning board and your zoning board ---have to--- and the public
hearings which are a necessity before anything can be concluded, why
must you continuously hatch and rehatch and chew this thing up again
in committees here and committees there, why don't you proceed and
do it, you've already had this through committees.
Mr. Fosmoen: Commissioner, Commission left the intent of the four
downtown zoning Committees and we feel bound to continue to deal
with those Committees. The Committees are still in existence, they
all put in a great deal of time, I grant this Commission that its
taking in opinion an inordinate amount of time to respond, but we
are prepared to respond to those Committees, I have had a report
back from one of them that they find the recommendation acceptable,
we're ready to move on it.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I want to tell you and I'll say it on the record
that if you ---as far as I am concerned--- if the Wallace-McHarg.
report comes up as is, I will vote against it and I want to say it
on the record.
Mr. Fosmoen: You mean the zoning study Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Ferre: Yes sir, if the zoning recommendation comes up from
OCT 201977.
Wallace-McHarg as it did, this is one vote that is against it.
Mr. Fosmoen: It is not the same as it was a 12 ago.
Mayor Ferre: And I'm specifically told ---I for example think its
absolutely absurb to require of the properties on Flagler Street
to have build the property line,---thats just, you know...
Mrs. Gordon: To do what?
Mayor Ferre: To build up to the property line, thats one of the
requirements of that zoning study.
Mr. Fosmoen: We have four year information today, our response to
those Committees and our direction for that zoning ordinance.
Mr. Plummer: Lets get back to item 2.
Mrs. Gordon: Would you also in your summary please Mr. Fosmoen,
delineate the areas of similarity and change so that the Mayor
and all of us may be aware of what changes are being recommended,
ok.
Mr. Fosmoen: We hope that it will be clear to you, we spent fifty
pages worth of material.
Mayor Ferre: Your recommendation is that we deny this?
Mr. Fosmoen: Yes sir, there sufficient general commercial zoning
immediately north of this area.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, whats the will of this Commission?
Mr. Vigaren: I have presented to you Commissioner, all you copies of
a covenant which we would execute in the City's favor, comitting
ourselves to use this property as we are representing to you that
we will use it or as C-3, any use comitted in C-3, which is the
zoned right now, so our intent is to use this as we are telling
you we're going to use it and if we ever decide to sell it or change
its use, we're commiting ourselves to not put it to any other use
that isn't already allowed. There is as Mr. Fosmoen, indicated
commercial property available in Downtown Miami, further north and
west, however, in our particular business this facility's main function
is to service Dogde Island, well over 50% of our business done from
the present location, which is right next to this is mainly to serve
the Port of Miami and Dogde Island and anything further west or north
it gets economically unfeasible for us to do it.
Mayor Ferre: Is this ---did you take the covenant in to consideration
in your recommendation?
Mr. Fosmoen: I just got the covenant, I just received it.
Mayor Ferre: I don't see how you can expect to come to a meeting
like this when you have a recommendation against you from the department.
Mr. Fosmoen: I'm sorry, Mr. Whipple did receive it.
Mayor Ferre: When did you receive it Whipple?
Mr. Whipple: I would say about three, four or five days after the
zoning board hearing.
Mayor Ferre: Well, then you've had it in your possession, so its
fair to ask your recommendation.
Mr. Whipple: Mr. Mayor, the department has not as a matter of policy
consistently recommended covenants, we indicate if the question is
asked of us, that the Commission has looked at these and it is a
question as of if we cannot attach conditions directly our recommendation
does not reflect.
19
OCT 201977
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Whipple, nobody is asking you to repeat what the
department does or doesn't do on a regular basis, I think the important
thing is that you have to read this and react to it in a logical way ---
does this cover your problem, yes or no--- I, you know,--- if it
doesn't then say so.
Mr. Whipple: Well, it does not cover the problem that it disturb
an existing zoning boundary which is logical and it is a framwork
under which we are commited to work with. The covenant offers the
most protection I think that could be offered, that this use would
not be as objectionable as perhaps other C-4 or C-5 uses.
Mayor Ferre: Captain Waldrin, you want to show me the light on this?
Are you interested in this item? Well, this affects your port.
Capt. Waldrin: Now, Mr. Mayor, My item is number 6, but I'm aware
of their plans, because I was at the zoning board hearing about
a month ago, when these same gentlemen were here and we're interested
in them because they do serve ourcruise industry on dodge Island
and they really do need a car wash and so do we.
Mayor Ferre: Ok, whats...
Mrs. Gordon: I'm going to uphold the recommendation of the Planning
Board and the Planning Department.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, there is a motion that this item be denied,
is there a second?
SPEAKER UNKNOWN: What item?
Mayor Ferre: Item number 2, is there a second that the department
be upheld?
Mrs. Gordon: Oh, just a moment, the Planning Board I see they
recommended.
Mayor Ferre: For it.
Mrs. Gordon: And the department recommended the denial to uphold
the department.
Mayor Ferre: Thats what I said, there is a motion by Mrs. Gordon,
to uphold the department and it would be a denial, in other words
its a reversal of the Zoning Board's decision, is there a second?
Mrs. Gordon: I'm going to speak to it if I might, so that the
seconder, if there is one, will understand why I feel the way I do.
Mayor Ferre: Rose, I'll save you the time, I'll seconded it because
I happen to think that...
Mrs. Gordon: The reason I feel the way I do is because we are
engaging in the downtown area in a total comprehensive rezoning plan,
which in my opinion is the proper way to develop cities, not as the
City of Miami, has previously been handled on the piece meal spot
zoning approach. With or without the covenant,the type of use you're
anticipating does not fit into the plan for the downtown area and
for this reason I would not want to take and throw away an entire
concept at this time because it is more convenient to the port and
Captain, that has no reflection on your hopes to still find a place
to get the cars washed, but thats my reason for the motion.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, further discussion?
SPEAKER UNKNOWN: If I could address myself to that, I don't think
you're ever ---any city--- is going to come up with a plan that covers
all situations, same as earlier when you are thinking of an ordinance
forfeiting a fee, there are certain situations that you just cannot
anticipate, I think you have to take a close look at the particular
circumstances in this case, in as Dogde Island is right there and
you can't move Dogde Island, you can't increaee the land area in
20
O C r 2 01977
Dogde Island, its impossible for them to help us there, we have
to be in Downtown Miami, with this facility and I think you'll
note that Hertz is there and all the rest of them.
Mrs. Gordon: There is just a very short distance where you could
and less than block where there is a zoning presently zoned that
you could utilize, however, I do believe that in the comprehensive
study that is recommended for change too, so if you're going to
get in there you'd have to move in there in a hurry I almost think.
SPEAKER UNKNOWN: But I think this is your function to listen to
our particular problems.
Mrs. Gordon: I have listened.
SPEAKER UNKNOWN: And our particular problems in any downtown area
area are red lights, oneways, its a complex business but if you can
have one man only move four cars a day because he's waiting at red
lights and have to go around oneways, you can't operate, you have
to have a man be able to move eight cars a day, ten cars a day and
if we are forced to go further west. Mr. Tom Hindman, our operation
manager ---I'm an attorney, I don't understand all ramifications
of operating, I think it would be wise for you to listen to Mr.
Hindman.
Rev. Gibson: Alright sir.
Mr. Hindman: The downtown area of any large Metropolitan City will
always have rental car, it most to serve the needs of the hotels
and business in the downtown area. From looking up at what is
proposed between the arcr.itectual and the landscaping, that would
probably be the most beautiful rental car location in the United
States. The downtown area of any city in the country will have
several rental car location out of necessity to serve the City,
I don't know what could be finer than this to serve the City of
Miami.
Mr. Plummer: Well, sir I think what their are saying to you in all
honesty and lets lay the cards up on top of the table, if you had
gone a half a block or block more, there is area in the downtown.
Mr. Hindman: No, its a traffic situation coming west out of the
port and come 6th street, its oneway right directly to our location.
Now, the renters and most of them in Miami, are not Miamians, they
are tourist, they don't know where they are going and they don't
know where they are coming from. We chose that site to make it the
easiest possible way, half our business comes from the port, its
simple to get there.
Mrs. Gordon: Do they walk from the boats to your place?
Mr. Hindman: We bring them right over from the port directly to
our building.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, if you're bringing your vehicles there, your
vehicles are driven by someone that knows they way around Miami.
Mr. Hindman: Yes, but they have to get there and then the people
have to return the car to this facility.
Mr. Plummer: Well, let me tell you a statement that bothers me,
you wanted the availability of storing more than twenty cars on the
lot, as I understand one of the reasons you need to change.
Mr. Hindman: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Now, if I use your schematic here as the criteria
you show 28 parking spaces.
Mr. Hindman: I believe there is 30 or 32 and then...
Mr. Plummer: Alright, lets use your figure of 30 and we'll cut it
21
OCT 201977
Mr. Hindman: And a few under the
Mr. Plummer: Now, if you're going to store more than twenty, what
are you going to leave for the public to park in that have to come
there?
Mr. Hindman: Well, Commissioner when we say store, we while the
cars ---there are certain periods of the week where the cars are not
on rent, they come back, we certainly don't want them to sit, we don't
want them to sit idle any place, they are pulled directly out to the
airport to take care of the cruise business on friday and saturday
especially, we have to bring cars down there on a friday evening
or all day friday to be prepared to take care of the business. When
they check in on monday and tuesday, that place is empty and they
are out at Miami Airport, being rented out there--- we don't, when
we say store we just mean temporarily sit until the renter gets there.
We have no intention of storing vehicles, at all, ever.
Mr. Fosmoen: Maybe I should clarify a point for the Commission,
its not that car rental agencies are not premitted within the C-3
district, they are premitted as a conditional use, but the proponents
are talking about storage of more than twenty cars, they're talking
about washing facilities on the site and fueling on the site, we
don't view those operations as being compatible within the C-3 district
Immediately north of this, a half of block, or a block away is
sufficiently zoned general commercial propertyfor those kinds of
operations, we're not prohibiting rental agencies within the downtown
area, we're concerned about the kind of operation thats going on
at this rental agency.
Mr. Plummer: Yea, but you know, sometimes you've got to look at two
sides of the picture and they're operating out of there right now,
the same kind of business--- and I want anybody to go down there and
come back here and tell me that what exist there presently is a
pretty site because it isn't. You know, and their going to, I
assume, continue to operate Dick. That rental business in which
they're pumping gas--- ok, they've got to go a block away to wash
a car which I think is very foolish--- but they're going to continue
to operate there.
Mr. Fosmoen: Yea, thats correct, my only...
Mr. Plummer: Now, to me, then we come down ---do we want wineo alley
which is there now and there is about 50 wineos that sleep behind
this place every night, or do we want to give the wineo a resort
area with a few trees and the other amenities--- I mean...
Mrs. Gordon: After the presentation we had yesterday on that
magnificent hotel shopping area and you, you've described it to us,
you two--- I think maybe we should close shop and go home, because
its incredible that we would, you know, even consider a change of
zoning because some wineos are sleeping there now. This is something
we're thinking about for the future and the future of Miami, hope
is bright and lets try to keep it that way by sticking with the
plan, I suggest you call the roll...
Mayor Ferre: Call the roll please.
22
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Gordon,
who moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 77-823
A MOTION TO UPHOLD THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE
PLANNING DEPARTMENT TO DENY AN APPLICATION
BY NATIONAL CAR RENTAL TO CHANGE ZONING AT
APPROXIMATELY 560 N.E. 2ND AVENUE FROM C-3
TO C-4.
Upon being seconded by Mayor Ferre, the motion was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Mrs. Gordon, Mr. Plummer, Mr. Reboso, Mayor Ferre and Rev. Gibson.
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
7, APPROVE APPLICATION BY METRO TO PERMIT DREDGING AND BULKHEADING OF DODGE
ISLAND PORT,
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer,
who moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 77-824
A RESOLUTION GRANTING PERMISSION TO DREDGE AND
BULKHEAD PROPERTY OWNED B THE APPLICANT,
METRO DADE COUNTY, SHEETS 1 TO 3, DATED
DECEMBER 20, 1976, COPIES OF WHICH ARE ATTACHED
HERETO, ON THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS DODGE ISLAND
PORT, BISCAYNE BAY AT NEW PORT OF MIAMI, AS PER
PLANS ON FILE, SUBJECT TO APPROVAL FROM THE
STATE OF FLORIDA AND THE U.S. ARMY CORPS OF
ENGINEERS; ZONED W-I (WATERFRONT INDUSTRIAL).
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Gordon, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
Commissioner Rose Gordon
Vice -Mayor Theodore Gibson
23 t,.
ncT 201977
FIRST READING ORDINANCE: CHANGE ZONING CLASSIFICATION AT APPROXIMATELY
4101 NW /TH STREET FROM CA TO GU,
AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED -
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 6871, THE
COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE FOR THE CITY OF
MIAMI, BY CHANGING THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION
OF LOTS 9 and 10, Block 3, WHITEHEAD AND BLAIR SUB.
LOCATED 4101 N. W. 7th STREET, FROM C-4 TO GU
AND BY MAKING THE NECESSARY CHANGES IN THE
ZONING DISTRICT MAP MADE A PART OF THE SAID
ORDINANCE NO. 6871 BY REFERENCE AND DESCRIPTION
IN ARTICLE III, SECTION 2 THEREOF; BY REPEALING
ALL ORDINANCES, CODE SECTIONS, OR PARTS THEREOF
IN CONFLICT; AND CONTAINING A SEVERABILITY PROVISION.
Was introduced by Commissioner Plummer and seconded by Commissioner
Gordon and passed on its first reading by title by the the following vote -
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Vice -Mayor Theodore Gibson
Commissioner Rose Gordon
Mayor Maurice Ferre
NOES: None.
The City Attorney read the ordinance into the public record
and announced that copies were available to the members of the
City Commission and to the public.
9, APPROVE.APPLICATION BY FIRE DEPARTMENT - ADDITION TO FIRE STATION #1O -
41U1 NW 7TH STREET,
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer,
who moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 77-725
A RESOLUTION GRANTING PERMISSION TO CONSTRUCT
AND OPERATE AN ADDITION TO THE PRESENT FIRE
STATION #10 AT APPROXIMATELY 4101 N.W. 7TH
STREET, LOTS 9 AND 10, BLOCK 3, WHITEHEAD AND
BLAIR SUB (44-78), PER ORrINANCE NO. 6871
ARTICLE XXI-2, SECTION 3(1); ZONED C-4
(GENERAL COMMERCIAL), PROPOSED TO BE REZONED
GU (GOVERNMENTAL USE); FINDING THAT THIS USE
IS (a) COMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUNDING AREA;
(b) IN CONFORMITY WITH THE MIAMI FIRE PRO-
TECTION RESCUE AND EMERGENCY SERVICES MASTER
PLAN 1977-1978 AND THE MIAMI COMPREHENSIVE
NEIGHBORHOOD PLAN; (c) WELL -SERVED BY AN
ARTERIAL STREET; (d) EXPECTED TO HAVE NO
ADVERSE IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING AREA; (e) IN
SCALE WITH ADJACENT DEVELOPMENT; (f) PROVIDES
GOOD CIVIC DESIGN AND; (g) IS ESSENTIAL TO
THIS PORTION OF MIAMI.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Gordon, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Vice -Mayor Theodore Gibson
Commissioner Rose Gordon
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES; None
24
OCT 201977
/10i GRANT 1-YEAR EXTENSION OF CONDITIONAL USE TO PERMIT PAINT AND BODY SHOP
LOCATED AT 441 NW 36TH STREET.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer,
who moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 77-826
A RESOLUTION GRANTING A ONE-YEAR EXTENSION OF THE
CONDITIONAL USE AS LISTED IN ORDINANCE NO. 6871
ARTICLE XVI, SECTION L (37)(a) TO PERMIT OPERATION
OF A PAINT & BODY SHOP ON LOTS 13 THROUGH 18
BLOCK 47, BAY VISTA PARK (5-47), BEING 441 N.W.
36TH STREET, AS PER PLANS ON FILE, SUBJECT TO
LANDSCAPING APPROVAL BY THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT;
ZONED C-4 (GENERAL COMMERCIAL).
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Gordon, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Vice -Mayor Theodore Gibson
Commissioner Rose Gordon
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
11. GRANT 1-YEAR EXTENSION OF CONDITIONAL USE TO PERMIT EXPANSION OF EXISTING
DRIVE-IN TELLER FACILITY LOCATED AT 1699 SW 22 FT.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, take up item number 9.
Mrs. Gordon: Any problems with that Mr. Fosmoen.
Mr. Davis: Let me explain this, they are held up waiting for their
plat to be recorded before they get a building permit, is the reason...
Mrs. Gordon: No problems, I'll move it.
Mr. Plummer: You can go ahead and move it, but I want to go a little
more into discussion.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok.
Mr. Plummer: I want to know--- lets go on that again.
Mr. Davis: In other to get a building permit, the final plat has to
be recorded.
Mr. Plummer: yea.
Mr. Davis: Do to one thing or another and you know this is one of
the new laws that we have, is that they can't get a permit now until
it is recorded and then some technical problems that are prohibited
from recording the plat, they hope to get the plat recorded within
the next couple of weeks or so, but in the meantime, they still can't
get their permit, but they will get there permit as far as I know
very shortly.
Mr. Plummer: The permit is going to allow them to do what?
Mr. Davis: Build a new drive-in facility.
Mr. Plummer: Where?
25
OCT 2 01977
Mr. Davis: On the corner of Coral Way and 17th Avenue,
Mr. Plummer: Where, ---not on the corner.
Mr. Davis: Its an extension of that.
Mrs. Gordon: It is a map up there J. L.
Mr. Plummer: Ain't no way they're going to build on the corner
of that.
Mr. Davis: To the north.
Mr. Plummer: Let me tell you why,--- are you representing the bank?
Mr. Hunter: Yes I am.
Mr. Plummer: Ok, does this big conspiracy existing in the sky, that
says there is a master plan between this and item 4,---ok, let me
tell you what that master plan says, strictly rumor, but it could
have some credence. It says that the bank wanted to move and expand
and they brought this property at 22 and Dixie, because they couldn't
move the post office, ok, now they have moved the nursery, I assume
they purchase the property of the nursery, is that correct?
Mr. Hunter: That is not correct its under a long term lease.
Mr. Plummer: Ok, same thing. Now, what they were planning on doing
was to move the post office over to 22 and Dixie, and assimilating
that profit. Now, I want to know where those tellers going, because
---is the post office included in this?
Mr. Davis: Mr. Whipple, has the plan on this item, this was approved
by the Zoning Board hearing.
Mrs. Gordon: Is anybody telling me that this has a direct connection xr
with the other application, then I withdraw my motion.
Mr. Davis: No, it has no connection.
Mr. Plummer: I'm saying to you that that is the conspiracy that I
heard in the sky.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, if thats a conspiracy I want to know about it.
Mr. Plummer: Well, thats why I'm bringing it out and I'm putting
it on the record and lets put some people on the record ---yes and no,
--- now, Mr. Whipple, this doesn't tell me what I need sir, from
what I read on the map, this includes all but the technical stages,
is that correct, yes or no?
Mr. Hunter: No, this is on the north side sir, you have an existing
bank on the corner, you have existing drive-in tellers and this is...
Mr. Plummer: But, what I'm saying is--- excuse me ---I don't need
anybody to talk for me now, lot number 10 in the blue, is that over
the post office, isn't that the post office?
Mr. Davis: Thats part of the post office, that little property.
Mr. Plummer: Is that coming out?
Mr. Davis: No, there is not ---the blue indicates other property
which they control.
Mr. Hunter: Mr. Commissioner?
Mr. Davis: Thats all the blue indicates.
Mr. Plummer: Alright, go ahead.
Mr, Hunter: May I speak to this please?
26
OCT 201977
The lot number 10, that you are referring to has be developed as a
parking area only, there is parking on the side of the bank building
to the east, there is a post office in the middle and then there is
parking to the east of the post office.
Mr. Plummer: Well, which one is the post office on?
Mr. Hunter: The post office is on lot 13, yes sir, 13 and part of
12.
Mr. Plummer: Alright, now where is the new proposed drive-in teller
to go at?
Mr. Davis: Well, I'm extending it in the yellow section, there is
no other section to be expanding in.
Mr. Hunter: In the yellow section to the north.
Mr. Plummer: Well, then its not on Coral Way.
Mr. Hunter: No, it is not.
Mr. Davis: Its on the corner.
Mr. Plummer: No its not, it can't, the building is...
Mr. Davis: The bank is on the corner, is the one that I'm referring
to, the drive-in villa facing 17th avenue.
Mr. Plummer: I for a detach teller, I remember that.
Mr. Hunter: Yes, drive-in teller, yes sir.
Mr. Plummer: Ok, now it was tuesday--- Because I got to get this
thing straight--- are they completely abondoning 8th street and 17th
avenue concept?
Mr. Davis: No, they are doing--- 8th and 17th, that has nothing to
do with this, I haven't heard about that one.
Mr. Reboso: The lot is for sale.
Mr. Davis: Oh yes.
Mrs. Gordon: You know, I'm ---unless...
Mr. Plummer: This thing is a little deeper than surfaced.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, I can only go on what is before me and what is
before me is an extension of the conditional use and I can't find
that objectionable unless the department tells me that its objectionable.
Mr. Plummer: Rose, except for the fact, the premise was we granted
that based upon their detached facility, you see its not just a
little simple thing, there were other strings attached. Now, I
have no objections to this don't get me wrong, but if that drive-in
teller was coming over to this Coral Way side rather than the 17th
avenue side I would say its chaos.
Mr. Davis: No, this was carefully considered by everbody a year
ago in Zoning Board and the traffic patterns were approved by DOTT
with problems, but its also...
Mr. Plummer: Ok, so, for the record Mr. Councilor, your name please.
Mr. Hunter: My name is Robert Hunter, I'm an officer of the Southeast
Property.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Hunter, then you are stating for the record there
is no conspiracy in the sky in any relation to item 4, as it appears
on today's agenda and item 8.
27
OCT 201977
Mr.Hunter: To the best of my knowledge that is correct..
Mr. Plummer: Ok, and you're saying that to your knowledge sire
there is no projection to move the post office?
Mr. Hunter: I was not even aware that item 4, was going to be on
today's agenda, I was here for item 9.
Mr. Plummer: My question is you have no knowledge that the post
office is being moved?
Mr. Fosmoen: Excuse me, the post office is to be moved, our department
is aware of that and they have selected some other sites, but its
not to our knowledge connnected with 22nd Avenue and Dixie Highway..
Mr. Hunter: And as a matter of record, they have delineated the
study area or the area in which they would like to locate, which
just extends maybe a block or two south of Coral Way--- you know,
just in a study area.
Mr. Plummer: Ok.
Mr. Hunter: Not down to South Dixie Highway.
Mr. Plummer: You know, I live in this thing around Secoffee and
the neighborhood is buzzing with all kinds of rumors and the only
place I can dispel these rumors is here and on the record and thats
what I'm trying to do.
Mrs. Gordon: Alright, I move you 1 year extension of the conditional
use, granted by resolution 60-77.
Mr. Plummer: And I'll be glad to second it.
Mayor Ferre: Further discussion? Call the roll please.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Gordon,
who moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 77-827
A RESOLUTION GRANTING A ONE-YEAR EXTENSION OF
THE CONDITIONAL USE AS LISTED IN ORDINANCE
NO. 6871, ARTICLE XI, SECTION 1(5)(b), TO
PERMIT EXPANSION OF EXISTING DRIVE-IN TELLER
FACILITIES ON TENTATIVE PLAT #829-B "SOUTHEAST
NATIONAL BANK OF CORAL WAY, " BEING 1699 S.W.
22ND STREET, AS PER PLANS ON FILE, SUBJECT TO
LANDSCAPING APPROVAL BY THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT
AND CHANGING OF THE EXISTING EXIT LANES TO
PERMIT RIGHT HAND TURNS ONLY; ZONED R-C
(RESIDENTIAL OFFICE).
Upon being seconded by Commission Plummer, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Rose Gordon
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Vice -Mayor Theodore Gibson
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NONS : None.
u'!!1 ■IIPII#1!I!!11!1
28
OCT 201977
1.2, APPOINT PATRICIA KOLSKI AS A REGULAR MEMBER OF THE ZONING BOARbi
Mayor Ferre: Thank you, take up item number 10.
Mr. Fosmoen: Mr. Mayor, may we request a five minute adjurnment
while , sets up his materials?
Mayor Ferre: A what?
Mr. Davis: He asked for a quiet adjurnment, but I have an item that
we can...
Mayor Ferre: Are you talking about item 10, now?
Mr. Davis: Yes sir, being set up, but in the meantime, Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Ferre: Well, why don't you go ahead and set up and we'll go
ahead with your meantime.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Davis, has something else he wants to tell us
about.
Mr. Davis: That is right, as you know, because I think you got a
copy of the letter, a member of our Zoning Board have resigned as
of Monday of this week--- Mr. Walker--- now, the code states that
there are two ways in which his unexpired term can be filled, his
unexpired term by the way, runs until the end of December of 1979.
It can either be filled by appointing the existing alternate, who
is Mrs. Kolski, without advertising or it would be advertised in the
same way as filling the term which have expired.
Mrs. Gordon: You would still have to have another person, so why
don't you proceed and prepare yourself to receive another perscr..
Mr. Davis: Well, this is a little bit peculiar.
Mrs. Gordon: Not necessarily.
Mr. Davis: Mrs. Kolski's tem ends this year too, so we're advertising
that anyway.
Mr. Plummer: What you're saying is that it doesn't preclude.
Mr. Davis: Thats correct.
Mrs. Gordon: It doesn't preclude it.
Mr. Davis: I just have to know whether or not we want to advertise
to fill Mr. Walker's term or not.
Mr. Plummer: We've got to do it anyhow.
Mr. Davis: No we don't, not if you appoint Mrs. Kolski...
Mrs. Gordon: Ok, I nominate Mrs. Kolski, to take the permanent
position and you advertise for an alternate.
Mr. Davis; Now's where I have to know which way to go on it.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok, alright now you got it.
Mr. Davis: So if you wish to decide it...
Mrs. Gordon: Thats it, ok. She moves up from Walker and its a
regular position and stays in there until next year, at which time
her term expires.
Mr. Plummer: Rose, you've got a problem, alright I have no objections
29
OCT 201977
I'll second the motion, but I think ---Mr. Davis, you correct me if
I'm not right ---for one, that thing has got to be scheduled on a
zoning agenda, not a zoning agenda, but a Commission agenda, is the
proper procedure, am I correct?
Mr. Davis: It doesn't state in the code how it shall be done, it
just says the Commission shall appoint, you doesn't even need to
advertise it, if its to be done...
Mr. Plummer: We should do it next Wednesday on the regular Commission
agenda.
Mrs. Gordon: You could or you couldn't J.L., I just want to say
something, if you don't do anything she'll still be sitting in the
spot and working at it, so why not just go ahead and do it and then
he can advertise for another vacant person, another position thats
going to be vacant.
Mr. Plummer: Well, thats what I'm trying to say, to put it on the
agenda for November 10 and she'll, hey ---if not you're going to have
somebody down here saying we pulled a sneaky pete, ok.
Mr. Davis: So this is why I brought it up today, so that we can
handle it.
Mr. Plummer: Rose, you'll make the motion November loth?--- she's
going to sit there anyhow, until then.
Mr. Davis: Thats right.
Mr. Plummer: And I'll second the motion, there is not problem, but
lets do it the proper way.
Mr. Davis: The only problem that we have is in the advertising for
the December appointments, thats why I wanted to get it out of the
way as soon as possible ---I forget our schedule, but Ralph--- Ralph?
You remember our advertising schedule?
Mrs. Gordon: Look J.L., we do it as a motion of intent, he has to
come back with a resolution anyhow, so lets do it, I move it, you
seconded it and call the roll...
Mr. Plummer: Motion of intent.
Mrs. Gordon: Motion of intent.
Mr. Plummer: Fine.
Mayor Ferre: Wait a moment.
Mr. Plummer: What do you want to do, you want to defer it? Rose,
lets just put it on November loth. Thats what I've been trying to
say thats proper procedure. I withdraw the second, I make a motion
that it be scheduled for the November loth agenda as we normally have
handled items, ---she's going to be sitting anyhow, she's going to
be sitting as the alternate anyhow as a regular board member.
Mayor Ferre: Whats the will?
Rev. Gibson: Go ahead, lets try it with the motion of intent.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, then we're back to the motion of intent that
Rose Gordon moved, Plummer seconded the motion of intent, further
discussion? Call the roll.
30
OCT 201977
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Oordoh>
Who moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 77-828
A MOTION APPOINTING PATRICIA KOLSKI AS A REGULAR
MEMBER OF THE ZONING BOARD TO FILL THE UNEXPIRED
TERM OF GROVER P. WALKER, AND DIRECTING THE CITY
CLERK TO CARRY OUT NECESSARY ADVERTISING FOR AN
ALTERNATE MEMBER TO THE ZONING BOARD,
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the motion was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Rose Gordon
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Manolo Reboso
Vice -Mayor Theodore Gibson
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
B. DISCUSSION ITEM: MATTER OF 'OLD BUILDINGS PREVIOUSLY OCCUPIED BY ONE
TENANT WITH NO PARKING FACILITIES' AND THEIR CONVERSION TO MULTIPLE -USES,
Mr. Plummer: Can I bring up something? Mr. Fosmoen, this is either
for this Commission to instruct you to look into or something. I am
very bothered by an existing rule in the zoning, I will not name
or locate a particular building but I will use it for reference and
Mr. Davis and I spoke about it. This is a very old building and
I'm sure there is many, so this doesn't address a single building.
In this community that is built lot line to lot line to lot line to
lot line, has no parking spaces what so ever, for years there was a
single tenant in this building, in the last couple of years they
chopped off a small portion of it and made a second tenant and created
no problems. Now the building was recently sold and they now I think
are putting eight or nine different businesses under this same roof,
Mr. Davis, tells me that this is permissible under our code of today,
now, I'm saying to you, if that is our code, I believe our code needs
changing.
Mrs. Gordon: what zone is it in J. L?
Mr. Fosmoen: Where is the property?
Mr. Davis: Doesn't make any difference.
Mr. Plummer: The location and the name is immaterial Rose.
Mrs. Gordon: No, no, the zone thats all I want to know.
Mr. Plummer: C-4, I'm almost certain.
Mr. Davis: C-2 or C-4, I can't remember which.
Mr. Plummer: No, I think its C-4. Well, Rose here was a building
and its a rather large building that for years had a single tenant
and has no parking spaces,--- I guess its grandfathered-- alright,
now they put a second tenant in, it was a walk-in type of business
and it created no problem, but here recently the building was sold
and I think there is at least eight individual stores going into this
building and not a single parking space.
Mrs. Gordon: You know why I asked you the zone, Downtown Miami in
the C-3 area has several buildings that have been subdivided into
small shops, within one large, had been one large store, remember
Grable's Bakery J.L.?
Mr. Plummer: Rose, I remember Greyhound's Bus Station which now has
31
ncr 201977
18, instead of one, but what I'm saying is...
Mrs. Gordon: But thats not the location you're talking about.
Mr. Plummer: No, C-3 is different because you've got off-street
parking, you've got regular parking, but adjacent to this particular
location I'm speaking of, there's not even a parking lot near by.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, I agree with J.L.
Mr. Plummer: Now, I think that the department should address
problem, you know, not that I'm picking on someone, because I
even really want to tell you the name or the location, but in
as an accepted practice I think its bad.
Mrs. Gordon: I don't know hcw you could even grant them occupational
licenses, through our occupational license department, unless they
provide off-street parking for each of their individual businesses.
Mr. Davis: Mrs. Gordon, if the store has been grandfathered in and
a new license is taken out for that same location within six months,
which is of a similar use, the same grandfathering privileges are
continued, which in this case meant no parking.
this
don't
general
Mrs. Gordon: Sir, did you hear what you said and what I said? You
said a license.
Mr. Davis: No, I said for similar uses, I should say.
Mrs. Gordon: Use how many, the point is the plurality of licensee.
Mr. Davis: If the building is reused ---I'll put it that way--- with
similar uses, the same grandfathering privileges continues, if those
new uses are licensed within 6 months of the expiration of the old
use.
Mr. Plummer:
Mrs. Gordon:
Mr. Plummer:
Mrs. Gordon:
Well, let me say this...
I think there is something wrong there.
There is, thats why I'm bringing it up.
I know you are, and you've got a point.
Mr. Plummer: Alright, let me make one other point and then I'm going
to quit, because I make this anually, I don't think I've had the
chance to do it to you. I have asked and asked and asked, ---Whipple
knows what I'm ready to say--- I find that it is now more critical
than when I brought it up past years, this City requires that when
multiple used structures are built, that X number of parking spaces
are manditory--- don't you start laughing again Whipple, I'll punch
you right in the nose--- now, let me tell you whats happening, whats
happening is we make an apartment put in 50 spaces for forty units
and a space is not assign to a unit, they are selling the parking
spaces separately and conceivably and it is happening more and more
as I see it, where people are not renting the parking spaces, but
parking on the street. Many apartment houses are having spaces which
we made them put in, sit vacant because they can't rent them and
people are parking on the street and if you dispute my word, go on
25th Road from the Bay to Brickell Avenue, where they are sometime
renting the second parking space for a boat and forcing cars out on
the street, now, Mr. Whipple, I'm telling you, I've told you every
year for eight years, that ordinance needs to be changed, so that
when you require them to put in the parking, you require them to
provide the parking for the unit, not a separate charge and I'm just
going to leave it in and hope that the ninth year I'm here, if god
wills--- I'm not up for election, so its other reasons...
Mr. Fosmoen: Let me respond one way if I may, we as you know have
Bartley, under contract to rewrite the entire zoning
ordinance for the City, just last week you extended that contract.
32
OCT 2 0 MAP?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Fosmoen, thats the same story I've heard for eight
years, now that troubles me.
Mr. Fosmoen: Well, I can guarantee you this year Commissioner, that
you will have a new ordinance before you and we'll deal with those
issues and I'm sure that there is going to be hundreds of others
like those and I guess my point is that you probably know the ordinance
or know the problems of the ordinance as well as anybody else and
when we start through that review session its going to be very important
that we get the input from this Commission.
Mr. Plummer: Ok.
Mr. Davis: Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Fosmoen: Shall we go to item 10.
14, STATUS REPORT ON MIAMI RIVERFROPTf DEVELOPMENT STUDY.
Mayor Ferre: You've got the full attention of the Commission, ---
at least 21 of it.
Mr. Fosmoen: Mr. Mayor, some months ago...
Mayor Ferre: Hey, Ernie we're in the middle of a... Alright, now
get going.
Mr. Fosmoen: Several months ago the City Commission, approved a
contract with WMRT and Economic Research Associates, it was a follow-
up to the completion of the Miami Comprehensive Neighborhood Plan,
one of the things that that plan identified is a major opportuni.ty
area in the City, is the Riverfront, its an area thats totally under
utilized, continues to be under utilized and we have for the last
three months been working with WMRT and identifying a series of
opportunity areas on the River for development. The reason that
we have Economic Research Associates as part of this team, is for
them to put together development packages rather than simply preparing
another study and another set of recommendations, we are going several
steps beyond that, we will be contacting ---specifically contacting
developers with development packages to try and generate some interest
in redevelopment on the River and we'd like to take about 15 minutes
of your time, our staff, Donna , on my staff has been working
very closely with Wallace McHart, I'd like to take 15 minutes of your
time to bring you up to date on where we're at. We expect completion
and recommendations to this Commission, some time in the later part
of December or early January, I think its important that we keep you
abreast of what we're doing with the Riverfront. Boris? I think you
all know Boris Dramov.
Mr. Dramov: Thank you. Can we get some of the lights dimmed a little
bit here? Can you see, can all of you see now? Great, thank you.
I'd like to begin first of all with a little bit of background and
then go through the slide show and I hope it will be both entertaining
and informative. As Dick Fosmoen said, the Miami River is one of the
Citysmost under utilized resources. Its location near Downtown, the
Medical Center, Brickell Office, and Little Havana, its proximity
to regional employment centers, its amenity value and its present
condition make it ideally suited for redevelopment. The Riverfront
presently is comprised of a variety of uses, boat repair and ship
building is one these, presently the ship building and repairing
business, however, is declining in Dade County. However, boat sales
and the repair of smaller boats is increasing. Many of these businesses
on the other hand are locating in the County, near expressways and
where land is less expensive, rather than the river--- freight handling ---
to a great extent freight handling is being consolidated at the
Port of Miami and on the County portion of the River. Although,
OCT 201977
freight handling on the Riverfront is generally declining, some
facilities remain due to problems related to strikes and thefts
at the Port of Miami. Recreational boat storage, the river continues
to be a place for the storage of recreational boats, however, the
greatest concentration of existing boat storage and repair facilities
is above the fifth street bridge, the area that we're studying is
from the fifth street bridge to the mouth of the river, most of these
major boat storage facilities on the river were built years ago when
land was much less expensive and dredging more permissive. The demand
for additional wet boat storage along the river continues. However,
the cost of land, problem associated with dredging and the location
of major sanitary sewer interceptor on both North and South River
Drive, limit marina development to the following; number one, the
area between the channel line and the shore line where sufficient
depth exists to accommodate boats, two, marina development in conjunction
with residential or other uses which can carry the land costs and
additional consideration however, to the location of new marina
facilities is the proximity to the mouth of the river to reduce
travel time. The third is dry dock storage which allows a more
intensive use of riverfront land, even with dry dock storage however,
land costs must be kept to less than $4.00 a square foot in order
to allow a reasonable return on investments and in many cases land
assembly is difficult. Fishing, the fishing industry is the most
prevalent marine retail related uses in our study area below the
Fifth Street Bridge, the whole sale fish and seafood business
experienced a substantial increase in establishment in the 1970's
and many independent cuban fisherman relocated in the Miami area with
the recent immigration of cuban exiles. Recently however, numerous
problems with fishing rights in Bahamian waters have drastically
affected the fishing industry in Dade County. Although, there are
still some cold storage and food processing plans on the Miami River,
some of the major fish houses have relocated these facilities and
industrial areas away from the river and presently only maintain
loading and unloading facilities on the river. Some of the other
uses of the river are housing, recreational and entertainment. The
demands for Riverfront locations for these use will continue as
Bayfront properties are increasingly limited and for the few remaining
Bayfront parcels, land cost limit development to luxury housing and
high income commercial uses. However, we feel all the existing
uses and many more can easily be accommodated on the riverfront and
the river should become a major activity center linking the the
surrounding employment and residential centers. Numerous public
and projects have already been built or are planned near the riverfront.
The Miami River Walk and for Dallas Park, the convention center,
parking under the expressways, the Government Center, Lumis Park,
Latin Riverfront Park, Street Improvement, replacement of existing
bridges, the Downtown People Mover and Mass Rapid Transit System
and Marine Transit. One of the objectives of this study is to
prepare a overall land use plan for guiding future development
consistent with the frame work of public investment. However, the
primary focus of our study, is to evaluate the feasibility of a
proposed speciality commercial and entertainment complex, including
a fish and farmer's market on the Miami River, the objectives for
the development of this complex are to create catalyst for
redevelopment and to bring active public uses to the riverfront.
Now, I'm going to go through some examples from other cities to
show you exactly what we're talking about when we say a speciality,
commercial and entertainment complex, the first component of this
and to your right is Chiardelli Square in San Fransico, this is
the first example of this kind of development, a speciality center
differs from a typical commercial center in that it is recreation
and entertainment oriented as well as a shopping attraction. It
is a colorful place with a mood or atmosphere that attracts residents
of all age groups and what we have in mind is a center that will
take advantage the unique amenity of the Miami River, as well as
Dade County's special climate and culture. Speciality center tenants
typically include individualistic restuarants, speciality shops and
craftman. This is now Ports of Callin Los Angeles, which is another
one of these kinds of centers, thats an interior view of Ports of Call
pedestrian walkways and a whole ---this is a brand new development.
Mayor Ferre: Is Ports of Call, in Los Angeles?
34
OCT 20i977
Mr. Dramov: Yes it is. Its a brand new development, but it looks
like a fishing village and the whole character and the promenades
and the atmosphere, are really a very important part of making it
work.
Mayor Ferre: Is that the one you saw this summer?
Mr. Dramov: This another one and probably one of the most successful
speciality centers, its Village and Marina Delray, in Los
Angeles, which was a recreation of a New England Fishing Village
and slightly smaller scale than it actually was, of course the San
Antonio Riverfront has been discussed many times. Another aspect
of this whole complex that we're looking at is a fisherman's wharf
this is fisherman's wharf in San Fransico, that we're showing
here and we think there is a potential of developing a fisherman's
•wharfhere and particularly with the major concentration of
fisherman being on this part of the river that we're looking at.
A fisherman's wharf could provide dockage facilities for fisherman
and could be developed in association with either the local fisherman
or one or more of the fish houses along the river. Harbor facilities
for recreational boaters coming to the center and some limited
recreational boating storage areas, while there is some dockage space
for sport fisherman could be provided. Fresh fish and seafood could
be sold on a daily basis to the public as picnic lunches or for take
home , on special occasions during particular fishing seasons, larger
market areas could be established in a colorful atmosphere. The
fisherman's wharf could strengthen the fishing industry's position
on the river Would provide an additional outlet for the sale of fresh
fish and related produces and would create a colorful setting for the
speciality shops and restaurants. You know, those of you that have
been to fisherman's wharf you know that just around the other side
crab is sold with french breads and so on. The most famous , I guess,
of these kinds of developments, ---probably because its the most recent
and by far the most successful--- understand now that this development
is making $300 to $350 a square foot, this Nathaniel Hall Quincy
Market Development that was built in a public private cooperative
action with the City of Boston, ---the Boston Redevelopment Authority
and Jim Ralis Development Company. One of the aspects of Nathaniel
Hall Market Place, is that it has a farmers market or a mercado that
goes with it, which is another aspect of the whole speciality center
development. Mercado or a farmers market will be included in conjunction
with the restaurants and shops, the mercado would be comprised of
farmer products, fruits, flowers and other speciality commodities
such as plants or birds. It would not function as a food distribution
center such as already exist in Miami and HanestP3d , but rather would
provide an opportunity for exchange of fresh produces and goods between
the farmer and our produce merchant and the city dweller The mercado
would be an attractive place with a mood or a atmosphere so that
residence and tourist alike would come to it. A special emphasis
would be placed on commodities unique to Miami and not commonly found
in super markets, such as rare and tropical fruits and the market could
function on both a daily or a seasonal basis.
Mrs. Gordon: On the river? Are you talking about the river?
Mr. Dramov: Yes.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, wait I'm not discouraging it, I'm just thinking
about the farmers market that we already have there you know...
Mr. Dramov: Well, this is a much smaller scale, that really functions
more like distribution center, this is a much smaller scale kind of
development and ---but I really would like to hear your comments. Let
me show you a couple more slide of Nathaniel Hall and maybe you'll
get the idea of how this piece of the farmer's market fit into the
whole thing. They have major pedestrian walking areas and places to
sit and just enjoy the atmosphere, as well as a whole range of
restaurants and food related shops and you can both sit at a restaurant
and buy a full meal or you can go to the speciality shops such as
a cheese shop, a bread shop, a pastry shop and get what you want and
then sit at the common tables. Ok, one of the aspects of our study
35 OCT 201977
that was completed by Economic Research Associates, was the market
potential for this kind of a development and this is the result of
our first phase of our study that I'm presenting now. There were
three sources of market support that we considered for this development,
one is lunch time patrons from surrounding employment and shopping
centers, residence and tourist. Based on confrontable developments
we have estimated that the primary resident market support for a
speciality center will come from a 20 mile radius, which you can
barely see on that map of South Florida. The secondary resident
market will come from a 20 to 35 mile radius and the tourist area
resident market support will come from a 35 to 50 mile radius from
its location on the Miami River.
Mayor Ferre: How about 12,000,000 tourist.
Mr. Dramov: Pardon me.
Mayor Ferre: How about 12,000,000 tourist.
Mr. Dramov: I'm just talking about the resident piece of it, but
most speciality centers work both as a resident attraction,--- you
know, Ghiardelli Square, is just as attractive for a local resident to go
to and to go to on a repeat visitation, which is the--- you know, we have
to rely on repeat visitations in order to make anything like this
successful, but it also is a place for the tourist to come and in fact
it the kind of development that make tourist stay longer, which is
an important aspect of improving the economy in this area. We feel
that the speciality center should build on the existing attributes
of the Miami River, its views, the character or the fishing activities,
the recreational boating and freight handling, in addition the center
should capitialize on Miami unique social and physical qualities,
its vegetation and sub -tropical setting and the pedestrian ambience
and out -door orientation of its community. In addition--- excuse me
I skip one small part here, but a very important one--- the conclusion
of the market analysis for the first phase of our study was that
we can easily support a 67,000 square foot development of the type
that we've been talking about to 1980 and an 85,000 square foot
development to 1985.
Mr. Plummer: Where?
Mr. Dramov: Thats the next question, the next part of our study that
we undertook in the first phase, was to look at six development
opportunity sites, we identified those in the first work shop with
City staff, other interested citizens and parties along the river
and we analyzed these potential sites which are, the first one was
located adjacent to the Bauder Fashion College, the existing freight
house which is owned by Florida East Coast Railways, the presently
vacant Ryan Building, owned by Florida Power and Light, in that area.
The properties which are in part presently owned by the City of Miami,
and in part are quite under utilized on the west side of I-95, an
area just below the 5th street bridge near the public housing project
and an area on the south side of the river in Little Havana. We looked
at a number of factors and if you'll bear with me, I'll just read you
this list, we looked at things like the size of the parcel, the time
availability of it, in other words was there something holding it back
now from being available and could it be development, could it be
developed, the parking potential, the acquisition costs, the marina
potential in front of the site, the potential for multiple use development,
the present ownership patterns, the demolition and clearance costs that
would be involved, the relocation costs, the potential for recycling
of existing buildings, the existing utility system, access to the
site, activity linkages to major activity centers in the Downtown or
in the area surrounding the riverfront,--- Downtown Brickell, Little
Havana, etc.--- the multiplier effects, now multiplier effects is a
particularly important factor because after all we're trying to
see what affect this project can have on revitalizing the entire
river, the investor interest, either of the property owners or of
other groups, the water edge condition, its present visability in
views, the neighborhood condition and its Urban renewal eligibility.
Out of the six sites that we looked at we had to eliminate four right
3E;
OCT 201977
away because on or more of the critical factors involved would
ptohibit the undertaking of this project, the two remaining sites...
Mrs. Gordon: Excuse me Boris , what projects specifically are you
addressing yourself to?
Mr. Dramov: The speciality complex, including a fisherman's wharf
farmers market, the hotel, the shops, the restaurants, the kind of
thing like Gerald Deli Square or like--- you know, like those examples.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok.
Mr. Dramov: Four of those sites were eliminated for one critical
factor or another, not permitting development in them. There were
two sites, the one nearest to the Downtown and the Little Havana
site which still remain and are the subject of closer scrutiny in the
next phase of our work. However, the Little Havana site already seems
to offer the greater opportunity for the successful development of
this project and the revitalization of the riverfront. Next phase
of our work will result in the preparation of a financial performer
which will clearly describe the public commitments required and the
potential returns of private investment in this proposed project
as well as the preparation of a site plan for the project and a
general land use plan for the riverfront, all of this will be suitable
packaged in a development prospectus which the City can use in attractinc
private developers for this project and we're very ---we really try to
do as much premarketing as we possibly can and we feel very optimistic
about the project, there has been a great deal of interest in already
and we think that it will he a very successful one. Thank you very
much.
Mrs. Gordon: I have to ask you a question because you are almost
pin pointing a particular site and that is the Little Havana site,
and is that the same site that is still in court on a portion of it.
Mr. Fosmoen: Not it is not the Latin Riverfront Park, its north of
that, just north of Flagler Street is the site that Boris is talking
about.
Mrs. Gordon: Is that where there's that large and enormous old hotel?
Mr. Dramov: No.
Mrs. Gordon: North of that?
Mr. Dramov: North of that. When we recommend the site we'll give
you the specific--- you know, boundary lines and delineation... but
isn't as though the secondary line doesn't include those.
Mrs. Gordon: You know, the only reason I'm asking the question, is
because if you're planning something of this nature and it is in
Little Havana, I would assume that you would have already have been
in in consultation with that neighborhood.
Mr. Dramov: Yes, we have. we have quite an extensive task force,
on our task force to answer your questions specifically is the Little
Havana Development Authorities, the Latin Chamber of Commerce and
a whole number of other groups representing any...
Mrs. Gordon: Ok, one more question, as to a development of that
type, what is your conception of the size of a track that would
be needed, what do you talk about in acreage?
Mr. Dramov: About 7 acres.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok, now you're still taking about this being a public
or a private development.
Mr. Dramov: Yes.
Mrs. Gordon: Public?
OFT 91110747
Mr, Dramov: Oh, both, ---public, private--- it would take, see it would
be impossible for a private developer to assemble the land and initiate
the project, so its public private cooperation, it would be a private
development with public cooperation.
Mayor Ferre: Alright.
Mr. Dramov: The exact location... go ahead I'm sorry.
Mrs. Gordon: Its ok, I like everything that will develop Miami, only
that I'm a very practical individual too and I'm thinking about where
are the dollars going to come to buy all that enormously expensive
land and you know,...
Mayor Ferre: Plummer, you want to say something?
Mr. Plummer: No, I didn't, my only contention is that if you're
going to put this thing on the West side of the river, north of the
present Latin Bayfront Park, I think that you're whistling dixie.
Mrs. Gordon: Thats what I think.
Mr. Plummer: Number one, its just impossible to get to that location
from downtown. Now, I think a location and the ones that you named,
I can't see how any of the other areas that you compared with that
between the Miami Avenue bridge and the Second Avenue bridge--- my
god its nothing but one gigantic parking and if you got to buy property
its sure a lot easier to buy a parking lot than it is buildings.
Mayor Ferre: Except there is a difference in price.
Mr. Dramov: Exactly, a large difference in price.
Mr. Plummer: Well, I understand but we also talk about people around
this Commission and thats displacing people and to me right now, you're
only displacing a parking lot, you're not displacing businesses, you're
not displacing people in homes and more importantly its on the east
side or the downtown side of the river.
Mr. Dramov: Well one of the--- may I respond to that?--- one of the,
well there is several aspects involved, the sites that we're looking
at first of all are, no of the sites have the type of housing with ---
well, the sites do have some, the Little Havana site does have some
housing in it, but most of it is old, in poor condition and wood framed,
its the kind of housing that would need to be redeveloped anyway. The
second factor is that if we feel that there is an important linkage
to be made between the two sides of the river and then in fact if you
site or that general area that we're talking about, this is the site
that will be the closest to the government center and to the future
city hall, you can in fact walk through Lummus Park and go across the
river on a small little barge for example, which could be operated
very easily, and would in fact be an attractive way to approach it
and go to the other side of the river, its within a five minute
walking distance of the government center. Also, a similar kind of
situation could be developed between Flagler Street and the shopping
area there and the other side of the river.
Mr. Fosmoen: One additional comment, there has been a substantial
amount of interest from the Little Havana Community in developing
a speciality center, a Latin quarter, in fact I had distributed to
a notice of a meeting this saturday to discuss that subject and that
site on the west side of the river appears to be very attractive and
linking those two objectives of a latin quarter with a speciality
center, there certainly is the market for a speciality center, the
area, the site six that we're beginning to focus in on is one that in
fact does need redevelopment, there is no question about that. Someone
asked about financing,--- you know, the state just approved the tax
increment financing, but you have to start out with reasonably priced
land in order for that to work, there is of course a new piece of
Federal Legislation Urban Development Action Grants, which we think
may present an opportunity also for financing. We don't have all the
answers yet, we simply wanted to bring you up to date on where we're
OCT 2 01971
at. Well, we take a little time to get the answers.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, are you ready for my little lecture, I've
been keeping quiet now, I let everybody else talk and now its my...
INAUDIBLE:
Mayor Ferre: I'm sure , I kept quiet up until now, thats kind of
rare for me isn't it? Alright, you'd mention Ghiardelli Square, Ports
that are called Marina Delray, Fisherman's wharf and the Boston
and the Nathaniel Hall. I've seen three of these and Ghiardelli Square
as I recall that was an abandoned mess of a cannery--- it used to
be an old cannery, a brick building and some smart guy had the vision
and the guts and the ability to buy it dirt cheap and because of the
wall they had walls knock out--- holes, plants growing through it,
it was an abondoned mess--- but the structure was there and the bricks
were there and the location was there and it all kind of fit--- it
was a natural type of thing. Number two, Fisherman's wharf Rose
you know, in fisherman's wharf - if you've ever been to San Fransico,
the fishing boats are there and the beauty of it is that its natural
you go there because the fishing boats are all there and the restaurants
are almost incidental to it, but thats what adds to the atmosphere
Now, I'll tell you I have a particular strong feeling against places
Vale, now my family and I go skiing and when we go •to Colorado, there
is two places Vale and Aspen. Aspen is an old Colorado mining town
which is natural, there isn't any other place like Aspen, Aspen is
Aspen. Vale is a cheap copy of a Swiss village in my opinion, I don't
like Vale, because I don't like to have all these fake walls and all
these fake church bells going up and all the Swiss designs just don't
even fit in the rocky mountains you know, I don't see that it has any
connection. Aspen is Aspen, its Colorado, its natural. Now, I happen
to feel that what ever we do here we've got to follow the pattern of
Ghiardelli Square, of Fisherman's wharf this idea of building a
New England Village in the West Coast of California is absurd, you
know and we're not going to build any New England Villages here, whats
natural of Miami to Florida is, whats is natural here, what we have in
Key West, what have along the Miami River with all those dilapidated
boats and fishing nets hanging down and the guy with the cigar hanging ---
have you noticed all those pictures that you put up there to show
character--- the guy with the...
Mr. Plummer: I want you to be a little bit more careful with all
my ancestors.
Mayor Ferre: Spanish hat, what do you call those?
Mr. Fosmoen: I think its a beret.
Mayor Ferre: Beret, with the beret and the guy with the cigar hanging
from his mouth. You using that as an example of personality and
character and you're right, Miami is taking that on, so what I'm saying
is this, for god sake what ever you get into make it natural, make
it follow the patterns of Miami, I happen to agree ---why did I say
something wrong Plummer? I happen to agree with the comment that
I think you're going too far up river, but I also happen to agree
that its got to be done economically. Now, I want to tell you that
the pattern of what we're doing in Miami, in Watson Island, in---
whats the name of this place here? Knight Foundation Conference
Center--- all these place for the most part are all private, public
combinations, now, thats exactly what the--- that is the winner in
the United States, where ever you have that whether its Oakland,
California or otherwise, it works, it works well and thats the pattern
of tomorrow and thats what we got to go on, so you got to go on these
private, public deals where--- now, where are we going to get the
money to buy the land, well maybe we might get it from increment
financing, tax increment financing. That might be one of the projects
that we put together and then go out and sell to the public. There
might be different ways of doing it, but when you started out, I
said to Rose, you know, here we go in another dream world again,
we go from Doxiadis Plan to Doxiadis Plan, but I think--- I apologize
for that statement before listening to you because I think what
you've come up with is practical, you're talking about a 65,000
39
OCT 201977
square foot project, thats practical, thats realistic, thats not
pie in the sky, that not Interama, so lets--- congratulations to
you and let go.
Mr. Dramov: Thank you.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let me bring to your attention, Ports of
Call, which by the way is operated by the same people that operate
Rusty Pelican speciality restaurants of Long Beach, have a daily
attendance at that place of 12,000 people a day and when the man
says to me, I said how about the stores? we have a 101 stores, I
said what is your occupancy rate? 118%, I said how do you do that?
and they have many of the things that the Mayor has talked about,
carts that go through the area, they have a helicopter that operates
off of a barge and they have never dropped below 100% occupancy, they
have I think either four or five fabulous restaurants in there of the
80 some stores and the people are just in and out of that place by
droves all day long. Now, it is not true in another place that you
showed and thats Marina Delray, Marina Delray unfortunately, right
now is experiencing some very very hard times, they have--- if you
know Marina Delray, its like a horse shoe, ok and around that horse
shoe is 33 restaurants and I got to tell you that I was told that
out of 33 restaurants only four of them were making money and the
rest of them are hardly breaking even. Now, you know, its--- I think
here again it comes back to what the Mayor said, whats good for a
given location in California is not necessarily what is here, I
will tell Mr. Grassie that I had Mr. , come to Miami with the
purpose of looking into Virginia key for a Ports of Call, he was
very excited about it, but its just that saturday and sunday traffic
just turned him off completely, new whether or not he would be interest
in developing something like that downtown or whether that concept
would go, is you know, just another story, but I think its got to be
tied in my comments before to the downtown area because the area
you're speaking of is your prime location now I assume is between
or South of the river of the bridge.
Mr. Fosmoen: Immediately north of Flagler.
Mr. Plummer: Immediately north of Flagler which the something exist
its almost impossible to get to.
Mr. Fosmoen: But Commissioner I, you know, if you had visited Ports
of Call its almost impossible to find.
Mr. Plummer: Ports of Call would be in Miami over on Lurnmus Island,
thats where it is in Los Angeles. Let me give you one other example,
when they put in the Queen Mary, which speciality restaurants also
operate, they put in a very simular Ports of Call in Long Beach along
side of the Queen Mary, you know what happen? they went broke in that
area.
Mr. Dramov: Well, could I--- the economic consultants that we're
working with did the economics for Ports of Call and many of the other
successful centers and we're certainly listening to a lot of their
comments about this.
Mr. Plummer: You better.
Mr. Dramov: But, we, I really agree with all of you that it said
that this should be something which reflects Miami not somewhere else.
Mrs. Gordon: Congratulations on your report and I hope you catch
that plane you were going to get.
Mr. Dramov: Thank you.
Mr. Plummer: Are we adjourned?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, unless anybody else have anything else.
Mr. Plummer: So be it.
4n OCT 2 019??
THERE BEING NO FURTHER $U NESS TO COMK BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION
THE MEE
TING WAS ADJOURNED AT 4:L3 O'CLocK P.M1
ATTEST:
RALPH G. ONGIE
CITY CLERK
MATTY HIRAI
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
MAURICE A, FERRE
MAYOR
E
41
OCT 9 n 1977
CITY OF JAW
DOCUMENT
MEETING DATE:
October 20, 1977
ITEM NO.
DOCUMENT IDENTIFICATION
COMMISSION
ACTION
RETRIEVAL
CODE NO.
1
2
3
4
5
6
COMMISSION AGIINDA 7\ND CITY CLERK REPORT'
t'1MENDING ORDINANCE NO. 6871, THE COMPREHENSIVE ZONING
ORDINANCE FOR THE CITY OF MIAMI .
GRANTING PERMISSION TO DREDGE AND BULKHEAD PROPERTY
OWNED BY THE APPLICANT, METRO DADE COUNTY, SHEETS 1
'1Y) 3, DATED DECK 3ER 20, 1976
GRANTING PERMISSION TO CONSTRUCT AND OPERATE AN ADDI-
TION TO THE PRES= FIRE STATION # 10 AT APP ROX I.MATELY
4101 N.W. 7T11 STREET, LOTS 9 AND 10, BUJCK 3, WHITE -
HEAD AND II SIR SUB.
GRIMING A ONE -YEAR EXTENSION OF THE CONDITIONAL
USE AS LISTED IN ORDINANCE NO. 6871, ARTICLE XVI,
SECTION 1 (37) (a)
GRANTING A ONE-YEAR EXTENSION OF THE CONDITIONAL USE
AS LISTED IN ORDINANCE NO. 6871, ARTICLE XI, SECTION
L95) 9B0
R-77-824
R-77-825
R-77-826
R-77-827
0015
0016
77-824
77-825
77-826
77-827