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Home My WebLink AboutCC 1977-09-15 MinutesICITY OF MIA 07", •• • ...I. SPECIAL Co t'IS S I 0 VIES OF MEETING HELD ON SEPTEMBER 15. 1977 PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK CITY HALL RALPH G, ONGIE CITY CLERK ITB1 NO, 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. SPECIAL CITY COMMISSION MEETING SEPTEMBER 15, 1977 III( CITYI5E4SSIQJ OF MIAMI, FLORID4 SUBJECT GENERAL DISCUSSION ON FEDERAL REVENUE SHARING, PRESENTATION BY POLICE DEPARTMENT. PRESENTATION BY FIRE DEPARTMENT. PRESENTATION BY SOLID WASTE DEPARTMENT. PRESENTATION BY LEISURE SERVICES DEPARTMENT. PRESENTATION BY THE PARKS DEPARTMENT. PRESENTATION BY PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT. PRESENTATION BY BUILDING AND ZONING DEPARTMENTS. PRESENTATION BY TOURISM - PROMOTION DEPARTMENT. PRESENTATION BY PLANNING DEPARTMENT. PRESENTATION BY CITIZENS SERVICE DEPARTMENT. gOLUTION INANCE OR NO. PAGE NO , 3-5 5-17 17-20 21-28 28-31 31-35 35-39 40-41 42-45 45 46-51 'SEp 1519'1 4 MENUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA On the 15th day of September, 1977, the City Commission of Miami, Florida, t4et at its regular meeting place in said City in Special Session to consider busitess of public import. The meeting was called to order at 8:50 A.M. by Mayor Maurice A. Parse with the following members of the Commission present: Commissioner Manolo Reboso Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Rose Gordon Vice Mayor (Rev.) Thedore R. Gibson Mayor Maurice A. Ferre ALSO PRESENT WERE: Joseph R. Grassie, City Manager R. L. Fosmoen, Assistant City Manager George F. Knox, City Attorney Ralph G. Ongie, City Clerk Matty Hirai, Assistant City Clerk An invocation was delivered by Reverend Theodore R. Gibson, led those present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag. who then Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, this is a special work -session meeting. As you can tell, this is a small room and the reverberations are a little bit more than we would have in a larger room so I would be most grateful if any discussions are to be had that they take place outside, unless you are specif- cally addressing the Commission. Mr. Naples?.. Mr. Naples: Mr. Mayor, is there any particular reason why we couldn't meet out there in Chambers? The public was invited to this but I don't see how they can fit in here. Mayor Ferre: Is there anybody in the public who is not here who wishes to be here? Mr. Naples: I'm sure there are but they are probably out there. Mayor Ferre: I would say Mr. Naples, that the purpose of this room and this is, as you see, a work table and this is a workroom where the Commission gathers to do specific work amongst itself and staff and, of course, it is open to the public, to the press and..there is space available. I think it is a little bit too small but you know, we have to live with it, I'm sorry. If it gets out of hand and if we get people who are outside that can't find space we'll move out to the other room even though right now I don't see that that's necessary. Mr. Naples: There is one other thing Mr. Mayor, this schedule on the work- shops and the public hearings, it seems to me if you try to adhere to this schedule it's probably going to be hard to fit in an hour, for instance, at Bayfront Park on the 24th. Mayor Ferre: Mr. Grassie, what were your specific instructions as you re- call them? Mr. Grassie: That we provide all of the afternoon for public hearings, Mr. Mayor, which is what we have done. Mayor Ferre: Well, I think the way to do that is that 12 o'clock sharp we cut off whatever discussions...and from 12 o'clock on it will be public hearing session. Mr. Grassie: Except for a small period of time when you would have lunch. Mayor Ferre: Well, of course. SEP 151977 1 pyMMW Miaasaw .'Oraasie: We have advertised the public hearings starting at 1:00 o'clock and from then on through the rest of the. afternoon is public hearings. Mt. Naples: Mr. Mayor, it is my understanding that when Mr. Plummer made the point of having enough time for the public to be heard on the 24th you are saying that, you know, you are going to have to get of there -as I under- stand it- before 5:00 o'clock, and I'm not sure that's going to be adequate time. I think there are going to be a number of people there in the morning, as a matter of fact I can guarantee it. I think these people will be hard - put to spend three or four hours waiting for the afternoon workshop. Mr. Plummer: Well, I think Mr. Mayor, that if you'll look at this schedule what he is saying is that except for lunch, which is until 1:00 o'clock, then you go from 1 to 3:300 P.M. -t w o and a half hours- for Federal Revenue Sharing, and as we all know it is no secret that they are not to talk about Federal Re- venue and if you wanted to limit those two and a half hours you then, by virtue of this schedule, will limit it to one hour to the budget. Mr. Grassie: It's not the intent, Commissioner. The one hour simply indicates a time that you have to publish so that the people will have some idea but all the afternoon is available for public hearings. Mayor Ferre: Yes, but I think the point that Naples is making and I have to concur with him is that you are putting from 1:00 to 3:30 P.M., second, which really we are not going to be discussing, okay? Because we are doing it because we have to comply, as I understand it, that we are not going to be taking this up seriously at that time, is that correct? Mr. Grassie: Would you like us to advertise differently, should we advertise say at 1:30 P.M., 1:00 to 1:30 P.M. for Federal Revenue Sharing and... Mayor Ferre: Yes. I think the public hearing begins at 1:00 o'clock, and we'll have to put it all together Mr. Grassie: Legally, you have to have a specific public hearing for Federal Revenue Sharing, that's simply a requirement on us, we didn't make that happen a half an hour earlier instead of longer. Mayor Ferre: Gene, let me put it to you and if we have to go to other days --you until what?..2:00 o'clock in the morning that.this City Commission is going to do you might as well get ready. this way, I made a commitment to you saw that the county Commission was up last night?..- I have no illusions any better than that, so you know, Mr. Naples: Well, if we can have some flexibility, Mr. Mayor, I think that an awful lot of people are going to want to be heard in the morning and.... Mayor Ferre: Well, ask the Manager about that and why don't you explain our position on it, I asked him this morning and he... Mr. GRassie: Well, very simply the Budget Workshop process, Mr. Mayor, is an opportunity for the City Commission to ask questions of the department heads so that you can be specifically informed about consequences of the budget and what the departmental programs are. Mayor Ferre: Mr. Grassie: Mayor Ferre: Mr. Grassie: is --I think bring people At what time do we start on Saturday? We scheduled that for 9:00 o'clock. I don't mind starting at 8:30 A.M. The only thing that we can do to provide a little more flexibility that what Mr. Naples has in mind is that they are intending to in by the bus load and he would like to have them speak ..,. Mayor Ferre: Well, why don't you bus them in at 12:00 instead of at 1:00 P.M. Mr. Naples: Because we've already, naturally, made those arrangements...As Mr. Grassie's has suggested, it may turn out to be that way because the response that we are getting.... 2 SEP 151RZl yot metre: YOU nean, you# a already hired the buses and all that stuff. Mt. Naples: Yes, they are oft a stand by„ -for the day, not for at a time. Mayor Ferre: Well, instead of 9:00 A.M., can't you do it at noon? Mr. Naples: Well, we can't inform the people; the people have already been told that at 9:00 o'clock the public hearings would be held and it was my understanding,..and Mr. Plummer's.... Mayor Ferre: Well, Joe, let me ask you this, suppose we shift --just trying to be accommodating-- suppose we started at 8:30 A.M. instead of 9:00 A.M. and we got one hour in and then, let's say, at 9:30 A.M. sharp we would start with the public hearing for a two-hour period, and then suppose we start again at 11:30 A.M. and have lunch and then just do it that way,..in that way we give a two-hour opportunity in the morning for those people who are going to be bused in to express themselves, you know, or to get up and do whatever they wish to do. Mr. Grassie: Well, we'll certainly accomodate our schedule in whichever way you'd like, Mr. Mayor. If you want, we can have all of the department heads who would normally make their presentation in the morning available either at 8:30 A.M. or 9:00 A.M., whenever you think you'd start and to the extent that you don't have too many questions of them we can get finished with them probably in 11-2 hours. Mayor Ferre: What's the other alternative. If we can get going with this morning session now and depending on how many questions Mr. Plummer asks we might be able to. Mr. Naples: All we are trying to do Mr. Mayor is avoid a bad situation down there and... Mayor Ferre: I do too, we all want to avoid it and we'll try to be on time and we'll try to be as flexible as possible and we'll try to accommodate you as best we can. Mr. Naples: Thank you. Mayor Ferre: All right, can we get started now, Mr. Manager? Mr. Grassie: Certainly. Mayor Ferre: Listen, I see people beginning to gather outside, I think we are going to have to go outside. You know, this is okay for Committee meetings but for budget, for the budget process, Joe, I don't think it will do. (COMMISSION MEMBERS MOVE TO COMMISSION CHAMBERS) Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, before we start, I'd like to ask of the Administra- tion..Federal Revenue Sharing, Mr. Grassie, I don't find it in my budget. Mr. Grassie: In what sense, it is in your budget in terms of... Mr. Grassie: Total dollars, period, and one breakdown is to Social Services, leaves a balance of about $9 million that I can't identify. Mr. Grassie: Well, the rest of the money, Commissioner, is used as you know is the pattern of Federal Revenue Sharing... Mr. Plummer: Is the what, Sir? Mr. Grassie: Is the pattern of Federal Revenue Sharing to support the budget, generally. Now, if you look at the revenue summary for the budget you will find that there is a specific dollar amount shown for Federal Revenue Sharing. Mr, Plummer: Yes, I find that. Mr. Grassie: The allocation of that money to specific items is important only for reporting to the Federal Government really, that money -for all intents and purposes- is similar to tax money in the sense that it supports all City acti-- vibes. SEP 151977 Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Grassie, speaking.for a Commissioner, one, I want to see where the rest of that money is going, and I ask a further question- based upon what I remember of last year's budget hearings, I tried unsuccess- fully to pass a motion which said that the administrative staff would be the administrative body of the dollars for social programs. That motion, un- fortunately failed, as I recall. At this time I see no provisions for this Commission to hear from those social agencies who have a diverse opinion from the staff. Mr. Grassie: That's correct; it's because that is three months away, Com- missioner. Those hearings coincide with their contract cycles. The dates on which their contracts terminate and their hearings would take place in December of this year, just before we are in the process of renewing those agreements so that what you will be talking about in the next two weeks is the allocation of money in block for the purpose of supporting social ser- vice programs and in December of this year you will be talking about the allocation of money to individual agencies, Mr. Plummer: So what you are basically saying is that you are going to lock it in. Mr. Grassie: In terms of amount , but not in terms of program or in terms of agencies, that is correct, in terms of amount we would. Mrs. Gordon: As long as you are talking about amounts, from my examination it appears that it is a reduced sum. Mr. Grassie: That is correct. Mrs. Gordon: And therefore there will be reduced allocations or there will be some agencies that won't be funded. Mr. Grassie: Just as is the case with City departments, that is correct. Mrs. Gordon: I understand your point, I am not questioning your point, just the point is whether or not those agencies that are contemplated to be dropped or reduced have been so notified. Mr. Grassie: We are in that process right now Commissioner. A number of the agencies, more than we would like actually, have been slow in preparing their applications and getting any kind of response to us, but in the next 45 days we are going to have to finish that process of reviewing all of those applica- tions, more than half of that work has already been done, and yes, they will all know exactly where they stand at the time that we have the hearirg with the City Commission. Mrs. Gordon: Okay, and my point is that if in fact it is a necessity to drop.. then are we going to have any determination of which ones would be or would not be and will they have sufficient time to phase -out their operation?..or to apply for funding from some other source. Mr. Grassie: Yes, Ma'am. Well, the last part of your question is a little open- ended and I• don't know quite how to respond on the phase -out. They will know in the process of applying and receiving..if an agency receives a negative kind of a reaction from the staff, they will have that kind of forewarning several months ahead of time. Now, after the final City Commission action, there will still be a period during which they are funded and we may very well be able to have as much as two months of phase -out but I don't know that it will be a year or any thing of that type, of course. Is that what you are asking? Mrs. Gordon: Yes, except that you said in December we would have those kinds of hearings and that it coincides with their contract year, and consequently they would not have a couple of months of preparation for a possible phasing down or out. Mr. Grassie: Of course, a great majority of the organization would not be phased out, so, for those few that might be, you would have --assuming that we have our hearing possibly the last of November- you would have the whole of December and we very well could extend that for an additional month. Mrs. Gordon: Okay, I won't belabor the point now because we are running late. Mr. Grassie: Mr. Mayor, what would be the preference of the City Commission, would you like to start right into the departmental reviews? SEp 151977 Mayor tette: t would. Mt. Grassie: This room is very awkward for doing this but I guess what I Will then ask is that we start with the Police Department which is the first one in your schedule and ask the Police Chief to give you briefly a run-down on the consequences and the amounts of his budget and then answer your questions particularly with regard to the effect on services. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Grassie and Mr. Mayor, in the interest of trying to keep matters down it is my intent to ask three questions of all department heads if they are applicable, and I will read this now and if the department heads want to make a note of it you can either incorporate it in your presentation or you can answer individually. Question number one, your department is proposed to cut people or money, I want your opinion as to what effect that Will have on the service of your department to the public. Question two, did you in your preparation of the budget request any items that you feel are essential to the operation of your department that were denied. Number three, did you in the preparation of your budget propose alternates other than laying -off people and, if so, what were they. I hope that will save some time by doing it that way. Where are you?...What page are you on? Mr. Grassie: We'll start on page 73 with the Organization Chart for the Police Department budget and the Chief, Mr. Mayor, will begin by talking about some of the reorganization, some of the effect on specific depart- ments in the Police Department. PRESENTATION BY POLICE DEPARtE T, Chief Watkins: Not knowing what the Agenda was, I didn't come prepared with any thing other than to respond but being the first one up here maybe a couple of comments might be in order, perhaps collecting -at least mine- maybe other department heads points. One, I went through this..I was trying each section, you know, and had a vested disagreement on what should be included and what shouldn't be so I have some empathy with the City Manager when he tried to deal with the department heads. Al the same time, I believe that it would be less than fair to him and to the department if I didn't fully try to explain what I think the impact of the cuts and everything else will be too. This is not supporting his program but I think it will show what the impacts are and then certain of the priorities will have to be set with someone else. If I could project what's happened in, the last ten years and maybe set a frame of reference to start with. In 1967 we had actually 27,044 part 1 crimes; in 1976 we had 36,336 part 1 crimes -which is an increase of over 34% in crime. During that time we had a part 1 arrest of 3,830 and then in 1976 we had 5,745. During this time period, we had 664 sworn officers in 67-68 budget. At the start of this budget we'll have 725 and by the time the salary surpluses are met at the end of the year, we'll have 689 sworn officers. Non -sworn we have 249 in 67-68. At the start of the budget year we'll have 214 non -sworn, plus 22 part-time senior citizens, at the end of the year it's projected to meet the salary surplus and we'll have 190 non -sworn plus whatever remains of the senior citizens' attrition,..as they leave we would reduce that number. We also did not have any support in the form of C.E.T.A. employees or grants in 1967-68 which we will have this year, so there is some support. As to how to try to respond to the three questions is haw we arrived at the budget, which I believe was explained before...was taking last year's budget, increasing it by the 6% plus adding some other costs that were in other budgets then reducing that amount by 7.65%..I believe. The arrival at the final budget was talking to all the section Commanders and trying to cut all non -essential things in the form of dollars, then at the end of that dollar cuts there simply was nothing left but personnel. To cut all expense accounts, to cut investiga- tion expenses, to cut all dollars, I think would be foolish because then you'd have people working but wouldn't have any money to support their services. So, this is how we arrived at the budget. The impact..some of the more noticeable ones will be at the School Resource Officer Program..it'll be cut back instead of having them in all highschools the senior high schools will not have any,.. the projection is not to have an officer in the school. We did do a survey trying to determine where the officers were the most effective and it is believed that in the junior high schools..that is where the most impact is made by the officers, in the junior high school. They seem to be most impressionable at that age, and not only our officers but the school officials seem to think that more response would be gained at that level. M. Plummer: And isn't it predicated on no -cost to the City? SEP 151971- chief t4atkins: 'Yes, it is. Efforts have been made to atfive at a, at least, pattial funding and the meeting never materialized and l don't kildW if fit. Gtassie has met any one or not. I had a'meeting arranged and...or a date to set a meeting and it never materialized. Mr. Plummer: But what I'm saying is, so that there is no misunderstanding,• that as proposed in your balanced budget, that of Police, it no funding or SRO. Chief Watkins: Not other than the department's funding. There is no outside funding and all of it would be absorbed in the department's budget. Mr. Plummer: The Department of Police or the School Board? Chief Watkins: No, the Department of Police; it would be totally.funded, it does not reflect any additional funding from any other source. Mayor Ferre: How much is that, Chief? Chief Watkins: I don't have the exact dollars, it's nine police officers and a supervisor. Mayor Ferre: That sounds close to $200,000. Mr. Grassie: Yes, $220,000, just over that. Mr. Plummer: It was my understanding that that was to come from... Mr. Grassie: No, Sir. Mr. Plummer. Mr. Grassie, let me admit from the beginning, after seven years of reading budgets in one format I had extreme difficulty. On page 91, Sir, it shows 1977-78 request and I see a whole lot of goose eggs. Mr. Grassie: You also see, Commissioner, in the proposed changes explanation that has been moved to Community Relations Division. Mrs. Gordon: While everybody is looking for different figures, may I ask you a question, Chief? In the new Police Building, are you utilizing all the space that's in there? Chief Watkins: The space that's not being utilized on a continuing basis is primarily the..what would be called the conference rooms. Those were deliberately yi built in for expansion for office space later on. There isn't, I think most of the space that the people perceived in the building was the architects built the wings to be expanded in the future and if someone..this keeps cropping up that there is a lot of space.... Mrs. Gordon: Yes, I've heard that, that's why I ask the question. Chief Watkins: If someone were to come over and look at the building I think they could get a much better... Mrs. Gordon: I've been over, remember? Chief Watkins: What's happening, if I could respond again, we are reducing -- going back into the impact-- we will be reducing some of the support people who many of them are working in the offices and there will be more space next year because we are simply moving their bodies into field positions so there will be the more at the end of next year than there is today. Mrs. Gordon: The question was asked for a specific reason, obviously, that it can't be done but the reason was to see if any of that space could become revenue producing space. Mr. Grassie: You mean, Commissioner, to rent part of the Police Department Headquarters? Mrs. Gordon: Whether it is to rent to other agencies or whether it is utilized by agencies within this agency that are paying for space now, which would be of course a savings factor. 6 SEP 151977 Chief Watkins: Part of that is the new D, partment of Communications. The new department is renting space in effect bepause they are paying 'x' amount of dollars for the floor space in there. They will have several people that will be in the building. So this is happening in the System Development group. Mrs. Gordon: After they are in place or are they in place now? Chief Watkins: They are in place now. Mrs. Gordon: Is there still additional space that could be utilized by other agencies? Chief Watkins: It is possible that some of the other conference rooms could. I would be reluctant to say how many at this point without going in and taking a good hard look at it but I'd say not over 1 or 2 that would be available. Mrs. Gordon: Okay, thank you. Chief Watkins: If I could carry on just a few more things that I think would have an impact that perhaps you won't see in your budget is that the expecta- tion of services that's been provided in the past, simply is not going to be able to be maintained. What happens when we start cutting personnel back to where you get the minimum to answer services is that you have to reduce your training, you have to reduce the reserve that you have and the flexibility to meet problems.; And I'm voicing this as a concern, by the end of the next budget year, with the projected budget as it is now, if you have a series of bombings, political assassinations, you've just about lost all of the flexibi- lity to maintain the...I won't even say the routine service, I'll say the es- sential services and still provide the training that goes into S.W.A.T. and the ability to deal with the specialized crimes..that are happening here in Dade County. At the end of that budget year, provided that you are at a cri- tical point, it would take a year to 18 months to start recruit classes and start to get back to the point that you have qualified people to go back to the streets. I realize that the City is in a crunch on money but I think it would be less than fair to fail to point these things out. The ...many cases will not be investigated because we'll have to reduce investigators; many of the crimes that are being reported in person now will simply have to be taken over the telephone. We've already started that and we expect to expand it. That, I.don't see —if the public is educated to this-- I don't see as being critical. I think it will need some correction, I think it will lead to some people who don't understand perhaps complaining if they don't get an officer. And that, I think, all of the City Administration has to under- stand and to say these are the things that will require adjustment. If it had not been for the support of our Public Service Aid Program, I think that you would have an enormous amount of complaints that would be coming in. They have picked up many of the routine fast that's been provided by the officers and the training and the salary of the officers any more I don't think allows us to provide the services, you know, by this officer..by the salary that they are getting, and the Public Service Aid Program has filled that gap. I believe it has been the most excellent program outside of the School Officer Program I think that we have implemented. So this is just a broad general view of what I think the impact...there are many more parts of it that will perhaps be brought out and questioned but I think this is pretty much a summary of the impact by the end of the next fiscal year. Rev. Gibson: Chief, I want to ask a question, just like Plummer. Are you telling me, or did I hear you say, or am I reading into what you said, that the efficiency of this City, police -wise, is now, according to this budget will be reduced. Chief Watkins: Yes, it has to be, and it will be on a scale because the figures at the start of the budget but by the attrition of the officers to make up the salary surpluses in the non -sworn, there will be 36 additional officers and 24 non -sworn positions at the end of the budget year. So, I think this has to be understood, it's not just what we are going into the budget year with, it's what we are going to end up with at the end of the budget year. Mr. Plummer: Is that beyond what is the proposed lay-offs now, the 19? Chief Watkins: Well, that would include those in the figure, but those SEP 151977 bWeft udget, but would get down to the fixed number that would be presented in the but that fixed number will be reduced by 36 in a sliding scale at the end of the year. Mayor Ferre: Does that take into account, Chief, the proposal by Mr. Grassie that after a one month lay-off, according to law, we'll rehire these people under C.E.T.A. Chief Watkins: That would bring 19 positions back. Mayor Ferre: And the, if those 19 were brought back, then what would be the quality of service. Chief Watkins: It'd still be reduced but I think 19, 25, 30...is that flexibi- lity to deal with the emergencies, and I can't say that one less report will be taken, but there comes a point that it becomes critical because you no longer have the flexibility and I hate to put it in this 5, 10 or 15... Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you this, I have two questions. What is the percentage of civilians with the Department, the whole Department? Chief Watkins: We have 214 to seven hundred and.... Mayor Ferre: You know, I get all these pamphlets and things from Washington and once in a while I read these things, believe it or not, I'm stupid enough to waste my time reading all these silly things that Washington sends me, and I remember in one of them reading that it was the opinion...that one third of your Department should be civilian. And then I recalled there was an article in the Wall Street Journal which I don't know if I cut out to send to all of you, about a Department in Scottsdale, Arizona, and, evidently, the Police Chief there has gone into a lot of innovations and one of the things that he did was he really cut down on the paperwork, I don't know how he accomplished that, there was a big writeup in the Wall Street Journal, and as I recall, he had something like 40% of his Department were civilians. The quotation said - well, the reason I did it is very simple, I'd rather get somebody that makes $12,000 a year to do something that can be done just as well rather than to pay $20,000 a year. You know, that was Scottsdale, Arizona,..Miami, Florida may be completely different and I'm not saying that any of that can be done but my question is, one- what is the civilian percentage? Chief Watkins: We have --without someone with a calculator to figure these percentages up-- at the projected budget that we are going into, 1977-78, we would have 939 plus 22 part -times; we'd also have the grants which the Public Service Aid, as part of the C.E.T.A. program..as well as being part of the regular budget...to where we are running over 30% of non -sworn positions. And many of the things... Mayor Ferre: How many did you say? Chief Watkins: We are running over 30%, we are running 214 plus 22 part-time, and I'd rather not include those because... Mayor Ferre: 214 out of a total of nine.. Chief Watkins: And we've got 73, included in the grants, we have 18... Mr. Grassie: Let me try it another way which might help you, Mr. Mayor, on page 73, at the top of the Organizational Chart, you have a summary for FY 78 which shows that of a total of departmental 1,108 positions --and that includes all the grants, and the C.E.T.A. and so on— that you have 725 sworn, so, just doing some quick calculation we are between 30 and 35% civilian person- nel in the Department. Mayor Ferre: I guess you must have learned math with a new math because I don't see 30%, it's 22%...that's all right, you've got a calculator there and it's very simple, subtract 725 from 1108... Mr. Grassie: Someone who has done it with a calculator tells me that it is 26%. Mayor Ferre: All right. So then my question, is there any way, Oita, that SEP 151977 68fe of the functions presently petfot ed by sworn personnel caft be performed by civiiian? Chief Watkins: You haven't many of the previous functions that are being sworn today and that's why we can't maintain the Public Service Aid Program, and that's why it was a difficult decision, that's why we did not lay-off the public service aids, for two reasons, one is because of the cost efficiency in the budget process, the possibility of the officers being laid off, but one is the cost efficiency and the nature of the work that is being done and two, we have a program to where it's the possibility of up to 50 Public Services Aids through the C.E.T.A., which if we laid -off on the one hand we could reduce the possibi- lity of maintaining those 50 on the other. So we are picking up this lack of non -sworn but there comes a certain point though where you can't use non -sworn, you can't have them go out here in the street in what we call combat conditions to make the arrest, they don't have the authority, the investigations they don't have the authority, so it comes to a point where you can only use -sworn. I would like to caution every one to assume that bringing in C.E.T.A employees is not the same person per person as if you have a career employee, because you have someone perhaps who requires much more training than it would be if it was processed through a personnel action to enter it. Mayor Ferre: But as far as I understand it you'd be bringing back the very same people, which are career people. Chief Watkins: Well, but during that time, a year or two, they've had this year or two on-the-job training too. Mayor Ferre: Yes, but what I'm saying is, Mr. Manager, you are going to have to, since this is your plan, I think what the Chief is saying is not quite the way I understood it and I think we need to clarify that, he says it is not the same to bring back these 19 people in the C.E.T.A. positions as career employees. But as I understood it, which you are recommending, is that career employees be brought back in C.E.T.A. positions. Mr. Grassie: I believe you are talking about two different things, Mr. Mayor. I think what the Chief is saying is that bringing back C.E.T.A. employees which are traditionally considered to be civilians, is not a replacement for uniform officer, with which I agree and I think you would. The other coin, a completely different kind of proposition and one that the City has not been into before is the business of returning formerly sworn officers, experienced police officers, returning them to the Force, except paying them with C.E.T.A. monies. Now, obviously, they would have the same training they had before and that would be a direct replacement - police officer for police officer, same people, so we are fairly clear on that, I think. Chief Watkins: The other positions are considered more of a training position to where adult --I believe this is correct, not necessarily the same qualifica- tions, because they do consider a training program; so you would have a time lapse while that person is being trained which you normally would not have had it been processed through the record. Mr. Grassie: Just as a little aside, Mr. Mayor, I asked the staff to check and the percentage is 34.6% civilians in the force when you consider all the civi- lians that are grant -supported and C.E.T.A-supported the total is 34.6%. Mr. Plummer: Chief let me ask you a question, or Mr. Grassie, really, I guess I've got to ask it of you. The figure of 19 is really deceiving because in fact you take the 31 that have already been laid -off during this year and you add to it 19 that are presently there, you come to a total of 50. Now, Mr. Grassie, is it your intent --or the both of you-- to hire back those 19 people under the C.E.T.A. and hopefully they will be transferred back over to General Fund, is the way I understand it, as the positions become available. Mr. Grassie: That would be correct, yes. Keep in mind the traditional pro- blem this City has had where it has to make savings every year to make its budget. And that's what the Chief was expressing a minute ago, but if we under- stand that, yes, then the intent is to bring these people off C.E.T.A. and back into the General Fund budget. Mr. Plummer: In other words, Chief, let me ask this question, the loss of 50 sworn personnel, is it your intent that it is that is reducing the services?.. realize, you know, that it is simple to deduce that the more people you lay- off the harder it is to do the job but, were you speaking of the 19 when you 9 �grp 151977 spoke of the reduced level of services or -where you speaking to the 56? Chief Watkins: I was speaking to the total budget. I did not include the 19 that would be returned. I was speaking to the total number that would be projected if the lay-offs did occur. Mr. Plummer: Now, are you finished, basically? Chief Watkins: Yes, and I'll respond to your questions. Mayor Ferre: I have one...I've got a question, Chief, about..okay I asked you about the civilians...the other question I have is regarding Metropolitan Dade County. You know, I'm certainly not a consolidation man, I am not for the conso- lidation of the Police Department with Metro. I think it is veryimportant that the City of Miami have police service for a department that is responsible to the citizens of Miami directly, so that we don't get diluted and all that kind of stuff. Now my question is this, I also recognize the need in the Department to keep certain Departments and certain things because that gives the viability and credibility and operating strength to the department. My question is in such things as are supposedly non-recurring...riots, political bombing, assas- sinations, and such things, is there any way that in those areas that we pool, share, not only with Metro but with say, Coral Gables, Miami Beach, and so forth, so that we have an inter -City or, if you will, we could rely on Metro on Metro for such things as bombings, perhaps some laboratory work, so that there might be some savings in there, without destroying the credibility of the Department. Chief Watkins: The function that is assumed on a county -wide basis today is all the lab and it is done by the county. Mayor Ferre: All the lab work, plus you have a dark room, you have 3 dark room technicians. Chief Watkins: But that is for the processing of photographs and identifica- tion work and the analysis of balistics, the analysis of blood stains, alcohol, narcotics, etc. They do not have the capability today to do the ID work and I doubt seriously they would assume that without assuming the total investiga- tion purposes. I would not recommend that. The disposal of bombs is handled by Dade County but at the time that we had a series of bombings here they didn't have the capability or the trained personnel to respond, so when we had several bombs to go off within a short period of time we were left to face this bomb scene with inexperienced people so we had to train some of our people to pick up some of the slack, but they do handle the trucks and once it is identified they do handle the disposal of any bombs. They handle the harbor patrol, all of the boats, water -ways. We do and have been working on the basis of a task force, if you would, between Federal officers, county officers, and in fact officers from other counties on the overall terrorism. Mayor Ferre: I guess what I'm trying to do is find out if there is any way that we can ship over to Metro some things that we could ship over without hurting the City of Miami Police Department and that's something that only you can judge as a professional. I'm just asking the question. Let me give you some specifics, a small little case. This last weekend I went down to Virginia Key because I wanted to see the condition of that beach, so I got into my little Boston whaler with my kinds and I went right down. Well, while I was there were two City of Miami patrol cars that came through. Now, I understand why, the place was full of kids riding in motorcycles and going up and down, there were a lot of young people there and it is a City of Miami boundary and it is our responsibility, but on the other hand, right there at Virginia Key I also saw a Metro patrol car. Now, my question is this and maybe it is one out of pure ignorance but can we get that Metro patrol car to patrol an extra mile and go down on that beach rather than have our people go down? Chief Watkins: We could, I'm not sure it's quite that simple to agree to cover one mile and not to cover 34. That's a political decision more than one at the Police Agency. Mayor Ferre: Well, it's a budgetary decision too, you see, because if we are out there patrolling Virginia Beach when..see, let's look at it in another way, we don't.... 10 SEP 151971 Mt. Plummer: Wait a minute, get back to your point. The point t think you ate failing at telling is that Metro ca],ls on us about 4 to 5 times a week to assist them on Key Biscayne because they've only got one car for the entire Key and they call on us all of the time. Mayor Ferre: Well, if I were Metro I'd do that too and put the burden on you but the point is, is there any way that we could shift it around and put a little of the burden on them. Can we play that? Chief Watkins: They do have the responsibility of Dodge Island, the port that is their responsibility. And I think this is right because they do request at times, they may have an emergency and not have a car there and we handle it, but at the same time if we had an officer in trouble anywhere in the City and re- quested of Dade County to respond, they would respond also, so would the Gables, so would Miami Beach. I think you have to have some of this. I don't think it is so simple, Mr. Mayor, the point I am trying to make is just to say that one isolated area that you know is within the confines, now if it is a county func- tion I think that's pretty clearly identified, you know, to where they would assume it but I am not so sure it would be so easily to come to an under- standing to assume just part of what would be considered the responsibility without being made to assume all of it. Mr. Plummer: Plus Jackson Hospital. Chief Watkins: Yes, Jackson Hospital is another. Mayor Ferre: Do we do that? Chief Watkins: No, they do that. Mayor Ferre: Well, I think the point I'm trying to make is that we can shift over any of these burdens on them and that we ought to try to but I see your point and I think there is a 'political', in the best sense of the word, concern here and that is that's exactly why the people of Miami voted against consolida- tion, because they want to have the kind of service that they have and not have the spread that would occur if we had a consolidated Police and Fire Department, so I understand your point. Chief Watkins: In all honesty, Mayor, I don't know of any functions that could easily be assumed by the county without taking the major functions that I think they would need in order to make the decision if you want go completely. Mayor Ferre: And I guess the bottom line is 'there are no free lunches.' You want to call these services, you've got to pay for them. Mr. Plummer: Chief, let me ask you two questions. One of them, let me iden- tify for the record, is selfish. It is my understanding that you are proposing changes in the motorcycle division, which affects the funeral directors for th*s town. Funeral Directors are calling me in great numbers with great con- cern. Number one, would you tell me what you are proposing to change, and number two, when they should be prepared to come down and scream at me. Chief Watkih: Well, it won't be the first time that they scream. The proposal is and what our intents are unless it's diverted is to...where previously we had to allow the officers to take the motors home and use them on a 24 hour assignments and to use the motors to run the details, in other words, furnish the equipment, not only the equipment for running the details but also trans- portation back and forth home. When we figured how many miles were on duty as opposed to those which were off duty, there was a considerable amount of savings. So the decision was not to eliminate the motor squad or not neces- sarily to eliminate the details for the funeral homes.... Mr. Plummer: As well as others. Chief Watkins: Yes, it covers much more than just funeral homes but the of- ficers would be required to pay either the mileage for the use of the equip- ment or a flat fee, and we haven't really worked that out but it will be one or the other and this way I think, in all honestly, either the officer has been getting that as an extra or the people that are getting specialized service have not paid for it, So one or the other and that's something that perhaps we'd have to work out. Is it equitable that the officers for their part should absorb this or does it mean that there should be a rate increase? And I think that's what SE 11977 A meeting should be about, Mt. Plummer: Well, Chief, let me just say this because you know, the futteial homes have seen a pattern over the years and drawing a conclusion from Metro.- politan Dade County. You no longer can get motorcycle escorts in Dade County for funeral purposes, and they had no objection to the price going up but what we found was that the man got less money, which meant he didn't want to do it on his time off --which they do, on their time off-- and subsequently the eli- mination of motors. It is being viewed by most funeral homes as just another way of trying to accomplish the same end. I'd suggest...I'd assume Mr. Grassie you would want them to come down on Saturday for the public hearing. Mr. Grassie: Yes, that would be the appropriate time, Saturday at 1:00 o'clock. Mr. Plummer: All right. I would suggest, if that is possible, that before that time that a definite plan be developed as far as,...in other words, to answer their question. Mr. Grassie: With regard to the rate, Commissioner? Mr. Plummer: As far as the rate is concerned, you know, I think they are going to want to know the total picture, which they are entitled to, and I think that it should be prepared prior to that meeting, so that you can give them the answers. And I can tell if it is of any benefit to you that the general con- sensus is that they would be in the position of paying more than what they are presently paying because I think you'll find that the average across the country pays more. Okay? Chief Watkins: Maybe I can even respond to part of your concern. There is no intention to eliminate the motors squad because if it had been it would have been the recommendation..or part of the recommendations to the Manager to start with. 0n the other side, the savings, had they not been accomplished that way, it would have been approximately five more officers that would have been laid -off. Mr. Plummer: Well, you know, I'm not trying to set your fees or that. The second point, Chief, is I have a letter from Dr. Noel to the K - 9. . It is my understanding from his letter that proposing,that the K-9 be denied the•use of 24-hour cars, or, in the use of taking their dogs home in the cars. Would you please detail for me on that. anything like in reference you are particular, go into more Chief Watkins: Again, the high mileage cars were the motors and the K-9 cars. We, in the case of the motorcycle officers, we didn't feel that it was neces- sary to compensate the officer because he could have said like the other of- ficer —it's transportation back and forth to work, and furnish the motorcycle for details but it would be parked at the station. In the case of K-9, we thought that it would be more appropriate and I honestly believe that they are due compensation, not necessarily a 24-hour assigned vehicle but there would be compensation for maintaining the dogs in their home and there would be compen- sation for bringing the dog back and forth to work in their automobile. If I remember correctly, it was $3.00 of tour of duty for the transportation for the dog back and forth as well as a flat monthly fee for maintaining the dog at home. Mr. Plummer: In other words, you are proposing in your budget to eliminate the cars and give them...what are they working, five days? Chief Watkins: Yes, a four day work week. Mr. Plummer: So, in income plus you will Chief Watkins: Yes, the dog... other words, you are going to pay them $12.00 additional be paying them for maintenance of the dogs? the maintain him at home, they feed the dog, they groom Mr. Plummer: And what do you pay them today? Chief Watkins: I believe it was $30.00 a month, which, in the budget, was $16,000..in comparison to what it would have cost to maintain this 24-hour vehicle there was considerable savings there. 12 SEP 15197 Mfi Plummer But it other Maeda, you doui t pay theta that $10 today, Chief Watkins: No, that would be the start at the title that the fats Would be :.. . Mr. Plummer: So, let tie understand, what you are saying is l four ties 48 plus 30. In other words, you are proposing to pay theta $78 a month more than what they are receiving today but take the car away. Chief Watkins: Exactly. Mr. Plummer: And you feel that is...all right. Chief Watkins: If it had been close to the dollar savings I wouldn't have recommended that we do that, and I don't have the exact figures but there was considerable savings..the difference between mileage..The savings would have been approximately $40,000 by takings the cars. Mr. Plummer: How many K-9 do we have now? Chief Watkins: It varies, it runs 20 to 22, I don't know the exact number.. There is a figure on motors and this was actually computed by the mileage but it is a matter of record. Mr. Plummer: But the mileage for the motors was computed on the same mileage as the garbage trucks. Chief Watkins: The mileage of the garbage truck... Mr. Plummer: $0.22 a mile. Chief Watkins: Oh, yes, $0.21 I believe. r Mr. Plummer: In other words, it is pretty well known that the motor gets a hell of a lot more efficiency from gas and oil and everything else than a garbage truck does and it is across the board. Chief Watkins: That's why I hate to pay Mr. Cos... Mr. Plummer: Well, I understand, Mr. Cox does pretty well in some areas. Mr. Grassie: But, in fairness Commissioner, the rates are not set across the board. The cost of maintaining a class of vehicle is calculated and the rate is set on that basis. Now, it may be, and that would be an interesting statistic for you, that a motorcycle is as expensive to replace and maintain..particularly because of maintenance, and that rate would seem to indicate it but certainly hte utilization of gas is nothing comparable. Mr. Plummer: Well, I'll have more to say on that later, and by the way, Dr. Knowles wants to appear at the Public Hearing also. Mr. Grassie: I think possibly the third sensitive reduction —you've mentioned two, Commissioner, the third sensitive reduction that we need to make a special point of is the horse patrol. Mr. Plummer: Well, how sensitive can it be when you are down to what?..two or three?..We've got four horses but three areas that they patrol. Let me tell you, Mr. Grassie, I think you will see, especially in the people of Coconut Grove that they are going to start sending you apples before...and cubes of sugar...before the public hearing on that comes up, because Joan Hall is there shaking her head and she is going to go out and take a picture of a horse and... (BACKGROUND COMMENT DID NOT GET ON THE RECORD) Mr. Plummer: Well, I know the horses are going but they are not going to go without a fight from Coconut Grove. Chief Watkins: I think it is important that each persons is approached with a concern on this and we found out in a couple of areas where they wanted the horse patrol..that when we talked to the people they were really concerned either maintaining a beat in that area or maintaining the officer who was already assigned there. In order to maintain the beats —you know, it's a kind MC- MEM- 13 SEP 151977 f a..this is the cycle we are in but in order to maintain the officers in first place to be there we have to reduce''the cost. There is absolutely no intention of taking away any of the beats, it's just simply blending the beats that are there into what I think is an excellent three -wheel program that is getting all kinds of raves in areas where they've never had the horses, so they don't have you know the image of the horse and the three wheel motorcycle is not one that people have to try to decide between. What will cause concern is the tradition where we have had horses and especially I believe, the fear that we are going to take the beat away and I can assure you and any Coconut Grove or anywhere else..there is no intention of reducing the beats, either the horse beat or the three -wheel beats. Mr. Plummer: Chief, let me ask you a question, there is always a concern.. and I think it should be addressed now and answered now,..is that during the Christmas Season, the downtown merchants always become very concerned. In the past you've been able to beef -up the patrol, or double the patrol, or put adequate people down there. Is that going to be the case this year?, in other words, I don't want to come up December 10 or December 1 and be told by the Manager that we can't do what we have done in past years, if nothing more visibility. We know that you are losing 50 people. You had difficulty doing what you had to do last year. Would you speak to that particular facet. Chief Watkins: Assuming that things are normal, in other words, where you don't have a series of things where you had to divert a lot manpower into it, but assuming that it is just the normal operation by the time of December and during the month of December, what we will have to do if each year you are down 50 to 100 people, obviously it makes it a little bit more difficult to come up with enough to create an impact, but what we plan on doing is a combination of the public service aids, a combination of investigators and a mixture of plain clothe people as well as uniformed people downtown. We intend to try to provide basically the same things as we did last year. Mr. Plummer: It may be possible. Chief Watkins: Yes, provided we don't have a drain in manpower that would divert something off, like a series of vicious killings or something in any one area but provided none of this happens, then I think we can provide the service. Mr. Plummer: Chief, an area that I have a great deal of concern in and I continuously raise it every year and that is custodial service of that building alone. If nothing more just for the record, I want to say that I think that it is completely out of character, you are talking about just the clean up of that building and simple maintenance which I assume is, in a new service, a simple maintenance, I should hope. $252,000. Now, I know that in years past I've tried to get it switched over to C.E.T.A. positions, I think there is 26 jani- tors for that building, and I still for the life of me can't understand why those positions can't be placed in the C.E.T.A. pool which will save this City a great deal of dollars. The only valid --if valid-- thing that I've ever heard was that it was for security. Well, you know, the way that that building was constructed and the way the egress and ingress to that building is, I somewhat question it. Is there any way in your opinion that those --I think there are 26 positions, I'd have to go to the other part of the budget now, could be transferred over to C.E.T.A. rather than regular General Budget posi- tions. Chief Watkins: I think that most of that question could be answered by Eddy Cox because it is in his Department that the people.... Mr. Plummer: Well, you have to speak to the security aspect or other than what you are presently using, now, these are not sworn people, of course, but do you...the question to you is -would you find any objection or any problem if those people who did the custodial work of the Police Department were C.E.T.A. people? Chief Watkins: Provided there was a background check, I would have no objec.. tions. Mr. Plummer: Sure, ' ief Watkins: My opinion of that Mt. Coif and 1 spoke about is a possibility Of it going out on bid, in fact, it is being...the specs have been drafted and it is a question of the bids coming ln, I don't know the process but... Mr. Plummer: We talked about that at one time, but here again, Chief, we ate talking about...Well, I've got to go to the front of that now to find my answer --Mr. Gary, in the future Sir, you would put if you want this front cover page, but put the breakdown on the page itself, it would make it a lot easier. Mr. Grassie: Page 190, Commissioner. Mr. Plummer: Okay, Police Custodial Services, you are talking about proposed for this year 20 people, correct? Mr. Grassie: That's correct. Mr. Plummer: And 20...C.E.T.A. people?,..no a total of 20, no C.E.T.A. people. My question is why can't the greatest portion of those be C.E.T.A. people which is Federal money and would losen up a great deal of dollars back to the General Fund?..that's what my question is. Mr. Grassie: I am going to give you a full answer but could I suggest that we want until Mr. Cox is in front of you and then we could bring that up... Mr. Plummer: But, the answer from you Chief is that as long as these people were to be cleared through a background check you would have no objections or see no problems with using C.E.T.A. people in that capacity, is that your answer. Chief Watkins: From the Department's point of view, yes. Mr. Plummer: Okay, Chief, you answered the first question of three that I had. Number two, did you request any items for your budget that you feel were essential but were not granted or were denied? Chief Watkins: The budget, as it was presented, was accepted. Mr. Plummer: Well, but under constraints. Chief, let me make a point so that you'll understand where I am coming from. About five years ago, we, the Com- mission, were unaware that the Fire Department was having a big problem in certain troubled areas, they were being called in in those areas for the purposes of just gettting rocks and bottles thrown at them. The Chief, and I don't even know if Hickman was the Chief then, I don't think so, the Chief requested in his budget $1,100 for a plastic bubble which would greatly reduce that problem. Then, Manager Reese -I believe-, denied it and I went through the roof because for roughly $5,000 we put those bubbles in there and eliminated that problem and that fear. Now, that's where I'm coming from. Was there anything in your budget that you feel was essential in the opera- tion of your Department and requested that was not approved...Let me ask it another way since you've answered it. Is there anything that you know of that you need for your Department very, very much that because of the constraints you didn't put in? Chief Watkins: Well, I think it is a difficult way to answer this but I've tried to voice a concern of what I think will happen at the end of the budget year and I think that has more to do than just one item that has to do with someone..with a person. So my concern would be the amount of people a t the end of the budget year..rather than if we didn't get the bubble, you know, or a monetary item of some kind. Mr. Grassie: The reality of it, Commissioner, is that both the Chief and I would like to have another 200 uniformed officers... Mr. Plummer: You may get that opportunity, Mr. Grassie. Mr. Grassie: I appreciate even the prospect of it. Mr. Plummer: The third question, did you propose any alternates either within the Department or as proposed to the Manager other than laying -off people? Chief Watkins: We went through all kinds of suggestions and thinking of ways 15 SEP 151977 ih trying to reduce dollars. We juggled t,e .budget; we kept the second dollar funding which was for training. We were able to absorb a lot of the items which were in the budget. We were able to use such things as the elimination of horses by which you have a got a laborer which is a vacant position, you have rental of a van, you have a lot of expenses...So they were all of these things that were looked at in trying to come up within a dollar figure but the bottom line is, in my opinion, I don't believe that at the end of it there was that much disagreement within the Department, ... is that you can only cut so much and your personnel has to be in ratio to that, so that was the final decision. And that was the one that was presented to the Manager, and that was the one accepted with no revision of that dollar figure by the Manager. Mayor Ferre: I've got one quick question, Mr. Grassie, just for the record, I want to make sure everybody understands...on page 74, in the budget summary, fixed and sundry charges have gone up from $133,000 to $1,774,000, that for the moat part is reallocation and is a budgetary process where you kept it there... is that correct? Mr. Grassie: That is correct, Mayor. To give you some background on why we have done this. In this last budget we found that the lump sum budgeting in one place some of these expenses that the Department has to incur led to their being tremendously underbudgeted and in fact our budget last year ran over more than $1 million dollars. We were actually out of balance. What we are doing now is we are putting it in the Departmental budget so that the Department has control of these charges. Mayor Ferre: All right, ad this is why for instance things such as administrative services went up from $138,000 to $946,000 and why criminal investigation went up from $2.34 million to $3.167 million and so on, is that right? Mr. Grassie: Exactly, we try and capture each of those in the budget statement. Mayor Ferre: I understand it I just want to make it clear that we are....are there any other questions? Mr. Plummer: Let me just ask a final question, Chief, you are proposed to lose a total of 50. You made mention of "down the year", are you indicating that you feel your losses are going to be greater than 50? Chief Watkins: Well, there would be an additional 36 persons on a scale that would not be there at the end of the budget year,..that would be the salaries from those from those attritions that would make up the $600,000 for salary surplus and there would be 24 non -sworn. Mr. Plummer: Okay,I can ask Mr. Grassie and Mr. Gary later how that comes about. 0n the proposal of 50 with a good efficiency, how many men would you have to restore to maintain the level of service as of today, would 25 reinstated maintain the level of services of today? Would 30?...Would 20?...What is your honest opinion? Chief Watkins: Well, if we have "x" number of people today in theory, it would take that same number of people to maintain that level of service. We might be able to be more efficient and be able to lose 5 or 10 bodies without seriously affecting the service...and it is difficult for me to explain, but if you start losing a large number of bodies there is no way that I can see how we can maintain these same levels...Something has to give. Mr. Plummer: Okay. Mayor Ferre: Any other questions of the Chief? If not, thank you very much, Sir. Mr. Plummer: I assume Mr. Grassie, you don't want any motions now? Mr. Grassie: No, Sir, this is a workshop. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Grassie, on those 50 bodies that we were just discus tug, what does it amount to in dollars? Mr. Plummer: About $1 million. . 16 SEP 15197? • • ■ Mf. Grassiet The last time I gave you an off -they -top, the Mayor cotplained about my arithmetic...4832,000; now that is, strictly salary, there is no fringe benefits, to coat to maintain the,oficer, no cat, it is just base salary, okay? Mrs. Gordon: Well, it would take more than just a salary, what would it take? Mr. Grassie: Well, if you consider all of the costs, including the depart mental costs to support the position and pension and so on, you are at a $25,000 figure per position, so it is simply a question of, you know, how many positions you want. Mrs. Gordon: Iz that the saving factor that you have worked into this budget, $25,000 per man? Mr. Grassie: If all other costs are considered, yes. Mr. Plummer: Rose, last year, in Police and Fire, every 50 men represented $1 million. In General Employees, I think it was 70 that represented $1 million, that included fringe. Now, of course, your fringe is up tremendously this year. Mr. Gary, I would like that figure as proposed in your budget, Sir, what fringe represents on both sides. While you are waiting, Mr. Grassie, I asked at the last meeting for a four point item, if no reductions were made in Police and Fire what would have to give?...the facilities...do you recall? I don't have an answer. Mr. Grassie: No, that's correct, Commissioner, I have that as a separate item of discussion which we can take up whenever it seems appropriate, I thought that you may want to go through this discussion of...at least the three depart- ments concerned before we get into that. Mr. Plummer: Okay, if that is the way you want to handle it, all right. PRESENTATION BY FIRE DEPARTMENT, Mr. Grassie: The next presentation, Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, would be the Fire Department, starting on page 59, and Chief Hickman will introduce the question of the very serious reductions that we are into in this Department. I think this Department is the one most affected as you know from my budget letter and the one that is going to require most serious consideration. Mr. Plummer: Before the Chief starts, set my head straight. As proposed in the budget, you are proposing lay-offs of 380. Mr. Grassie: That is correct, Sir. Mr. Plummer: All right, now, do I understand correctly that that figure is only correct if, number one, you go to 10 mils, if, number two, one of your four alternates are accepted... Mr. Grassie: No, Sir, no... Mayor Ferre: Well, I don't mean to do this arbitrarily but we do have.., this in reference to the Fire Department? Mr. Plummer: Well, I think this is overalll. Mayor Ferre: Well, fine, let these people and we can have our overall discussion or we follow the established schedule which is before you and on which we are an hour late on right now, and my preference is that we follow the schedule, now.... Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, you know, I don't mind you calling me out of order and I will respect that, but now, if we are going to come down to that way of doing business then I am going to remind you Sir, that this meeting..one of the reasons we are an hour behind is because this meeting started one half hour late, all right, Sir?...so let's put things in perspective. Mayor Ferre; I agree with that and I accept your criticism, now, would you --1"7 -so 15197 pfddeed Chief. Chief Hickman: Mr. Mayor, members of the,Commission, I would like to first thank Management Services and the City Manager's office, Mr. Grassie, for working with us so diligently in the last 9 months that we have been working on this budget because I think that we do have serious impact in reaching this second level limit on the budget. I would like to give you a broad overview of the first and second budget, the reduction service through the community and my personal view and Director of the Fire Department as to the maximum reduction we can absorb. The first budget submitted should have provided a continuation of basic service with no reduction. However, it became necessary to reduce our budget 1.67% because of special programs, holiday pay, overtime, was placed in our budget which is a new item. We were apportioned $366,225 for this, the true figure should be $619,890. Mr. Grassie: Excuse me, Don, just so that that point does not pass by without being noticed, what the Chief is telling you is what I told you in a different way just a few minutes ago, and that is that for example, his overtime and his holiday pay has been underbudgeted in the past and consequently, if we take that amount of money and we put it back in his Department, he in fact has been penalized because of the budget practice in the past and he simply did not have enough money to cover those, so that was an additional burden that had to be absorbed. Chief Hickman: The second budget submitted required a 7.65% reduction or $1,162,493. The previous mentioned was $253,665 plus the other figure, breaks out to a total of $9.3...total reduction from our first and second budget... To accomplish the original reduction, of $9.3, we abolished the 35 vacant Fire Fighters positions representing $671,135. We recommended to lay-off 35 occupied Fire Fighter positions, 2 occupied non -uniform positions, a garage supervisor's position to be abolished and one custodian to be transferred. One vacant non -uniform custodian to be abolished, 2 captains, 7 lieutenants to be reduced in grade, 18 driver -engineer positions to be abolished, hose 2 with 15 men to be abolished and the Chief aides, 12 men, to be abolished. 18 driver -engineer pays to be reduced. I would to just give you a little brief history. In 1974 we analyzed our Fire Department as it was then and projected the future. We realized that we had coming in 1975 so we set about setting goals and guidelines. We scheduled a Master Plan to be built in 1976-1977, we set up 8 new inspection programs and other programs throughout the Fire service and we started ordering equipment that would allow us to reduce if we had to. We ordered 4 main line -adaptors to be placed on all -ranges which would give them phone capabilities to give us the flexibility of picking up a service from phone . We ordered equipment to be placed on each ladder that duplicated their salvage truck so that we may take out the salvage truck. This we have done in 1976 and placed the night personnel in those two into vacancy positions to maintain as near adequate manpower as possible. In 1975, we abolished three positions to meet our budget. In 1976, we abolished 8 positions to meet our budget. In that same year, we reduced from 52 our work- week to 49.6 work -week. This requires 23 added personnel to maintain our strength. During the year 1977, we have maintained a vacant position of 35 people, and in the year 1977-78 if it is required we will have to maintain $221,000 surplus vacancy which is 22 more Fire Department men. In our meeting with Mr. Grassie, our staff and I recommended that we take what we had done over the last three years in reducing personnel and at the same time realizing that alarms are in- creasing at about 3% per year, fire and rescue, and that we could live with reducing Hose 2, the Chief's aides and placing those men back out in combat and this is where we drew the line in our professional opinion before service begins to deteriorate until the lives and property of the citizens would be jeopardized. (INAUDIBLE COMMENT MADE AWAY FROM THE MICROPHONE) Mr. Grassie: No, Sir, this goes beyond that, Mr. Mayor. Chief Hickman. This goes beyond that, Sir, I had to meet a figure for the second budget. Mayor Ferre: That is where you are drawing the line....Now, beyond this there is a decrease in service. Chief Hickman: Yes, Sir. Mayor Fevre: Okay, now,,, . 18 SEP 151971 EV Mt. Pittner: Mt. Mayor, i've got to get back to the 4ueatioh that live tfied to a8k before, Chief, are you ptedicating ,that a s at of the fait of these theft being tecalled,or are you not? Chief Hickman: The 35 men? Mr. Plummer: The 36. Chief Hickman: It's 35. Mr. Plummer: It's more than that. 'the positions to be dropped are 2 Chief Hickman: Before that, that that's what we've had to submit. positions that are recommended to As t have it here in this captains, 36 fire fighters was when we were working on We have had retirements now be laid -off, Sir. book it says, and 5 lieutenants, the budget and and it's only 35 Mr. Plummer: Okay, that's 35 plus you've lost during the year vacancies not refilled you've lost an additional 34. All right. My question to you is, are you predicating your answer, as I understand it, this is the level that below you are in trouble. Are you predicating that on bringing back these 35 people in 30 days? or are you not? Chief Hickman: Yes. Mr. Grassie: Wait, Chief, let's make sure that we understand because I don't think that's your answer. The budget that you have prepared and the level of service to which we can go without really hurting does not contemplate bringing people back because we did not know of that alternative, in other words, to get down...if we look at page 60, to get down to point 2, which is the dividing line the Chief is talking about, if you see in his budget impact statement, page 60, if you draw a line between point 2 and point 3, that is the level that the Chief is talking about as being the point where it starts to really hurt. Okay? But now, we can get there and we can maintain points 1 and 2 without calling back 35 people, is that right? Chief Hickman: You mean, without filling the 35 vacancies. Mr. Grassie: No, without calling back the 35 people... Chief Hickman: No, Sir, I would have to have the 35 people coming back. Mr. Grassie: Well, I don't think that's true Chief. Chief Hickman: Maybe we are not communicating well. Mr. Grassie: We are talking about the 35 people who would be laid -off. Now, you can maintain service up to point 2 on your chart...on your list of reductions without recalling the 35 people who would be laid -off, obviously, is that right? Chief Hickman: Yes. Mr. Plummer: Let me just make sure that we all understand. It is my under- standing, Mr. Grassie, that for every of the people laid -off to be called back in 30 days one of your 4 alternates has to be accepted. Mr. Grassie: That's correct. Mr. Plummer: And without one of those four being accepted, there will be no call back. Mr. Grassie: Based on the budget that is presented to you, that is correct. Mr. Plummer: That's the point I'm trying to make. Mr. Grassie: But if you have no call-backs Commissioner, just so that you are clear, if you have no call-backs then the impact will be the dive points that you see on page 60. Mr. Plummer: Yes. SEP 151977 Mt: Gtassie: Now, to the extent that you call back 9 people you eliminate point 5, if you call back another 16 people, you eliminate point 4, and you will recall that that was part of my recommendation that we do that. Mr. Plummer: I'm just asking for clarification. There again, I understand you to say that you can maintain a fair balance without the call-backs? Chief Hickman: Evidently, I am not communicating myself to you, Commissioner, I am not saying that. I'm saying, that the removal of Hose 2 and the abolish- ment of the 12 district aides putting them back into combat with the people from Hose 2 going back into combat I can maintain a good service, or quality service. Mr. Plummer: But that involves the call-backs. Chief Hickman: No, that does not involve the call-backs. Mr. Plummer: All right, that's what I'm trying to say. Chief Hickman: That's just abolished positions. moms Mr. Plummer: Okay, abolished people, not positions. ■ Chief Hickman: No, unfilled positions, which are people yes, if you tight tb look at it that way, but abolished 35 unfilled positions. Mr. Plummer: All right, go ahead. Chief Hickman: That's it, I'm open for questions. Mr. Plummer: Chief, I've tried from the beginning, I've asked three questions, one you've answered, I'm now asking that you answer the other two. Questions number two, did you ask for anything that you felt was essential in the opera- tion of your Department that was denied? Chief Hickman: Me. Plummer, in our overall evaluation in 1974 we recommended a bond program to the then City Manager, Paul Andrews, it was passed in 1976 and for the next 10 years our budget will not be requesting any capital improve- ments, so we have the proper equipment. Mr. Plummer: Did you propose in your budget or within your Department anything in the way of cut -backs as opposed to cutting off people? Chief Hickman: Yes, I proposed to the City Manager in our meeting that if things got down to the point of laying -off 35 Firemen that I felt the Fire Department of Personnel would give }gyp their holiday time for one year to maintain those people and he promised to give me $120,000 in my budget, which he did. Mayor Ferre: Any questions of the Chief? All right, thank you very much. 2©- sEp 1.51977 4 4 PfleSENTATION BY SOLID WASTE DEPART ENL, Mr. Grassie: I'll ask the Department Director, Mr. Medera to describe the effects, the consequences of the budget for the City Commission Mr. Mayor. Mr. Medera: Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, first I'll like to apologize to you for my raspy voice, hoarseness. Mr. Grassie was kind enough to allow me to attend II convention in Chicago and apparently I've come down with some kind of a bug. I spent several hours in a Chicago Hospital getting a diagnosis and several hours in a Miami Hospital. Mr. Plummer: You're not a legionaire are you? Mr. Medera: It's not catching. No, but they were concerned with that Commissioner Plummer. They really were, and it's not contagious, so even if I breatheon you don't worry about it. I hope my voice doesn't disappear, if it does, Mr. Moss will take over. Personally, our approach to making our budget reduction in the Sanitation Department was based on an analysis of our existing residential refuse collection routes. From an analysis of those routes it appeared that an indept routing system have not been devised or looked into over a number of years. This caused the situation to occur which in solid waste is known as an unbalancing or an unequalization of routes caused by some obvious things such as route 95 coming through the city, demolition of buildings, as an example, moving of people from one area to another. Again, creating a situation where some routes are considerable heavier than other routes. In looking at that situation and with the aid of two interims employed from the University of Miami we were able to design a routing system which in essence says this, that the City of Miami is divided in half essentially along Flagler Street for the sake of the name of a street at this point and time, into a north district and into a south district. In the north district we have divided that into five separate refuse collection areas, and in the south district five separate refuse collection areas. By deploying our equipment and our personnel on a task basis, meaning by deploying all refuse collection equipment into the north district on a Monday and a Thursday and then deploying that same equipment into the the south district on a Tuesday and a Friday we're able to reduce the residential refuse collection routes from 51 residential collection routes to 46 residential collection routes. Mayor Ferre: Reduced from 51 to 46? Mr. Medera: That's correct Mayor. Rather than bore you with statistics I would prefer to show you what that looks like on a map so that you can get a real good graphic picture of it. Essentially what you're looking at is a line across Flagler Street which divides the city into a north district and a south district. You'll see as the overlay shows that there are five refuse collection areas. Mr. Moss is pointing to refuse collection area one and which stands for a refuse collection area one north. And, show them where two is Don so they get a feel... ok. The same cooresponding area is applying to the southern districts, or the southern sections of the City of Miami One south, two south, three south, four south, five south. And, by deploying the equipment Monday and Thursday into the north section and the same equipment Tuesday and Friday into the south section.Again, at the point of being redundant we were able to reduce our refuse collection route from 51 residential routes to 46 residential routes. Each individual block that you see numbered starting in the-- (Point to number 11 Don), ok, represents approximately 10 tons worth of refuse which is a fair days work for a fair days pay as my professional opinion inter- prets that to be. However, based upon not only national statistics but statistics of other municipalities in southern communities which are producing on a part-time collection route basis, significantly more pounds per hour than we would be asking our personnel to produce. In sum this is how we were able to meet our budgetary commitment, our budgetary reduction. Are there any questions? Mr. Plummer: Well, I understand one thing. What you're saying is you can maintain the level of service by efficiency in routes. Maintain the same level of services. Mr. Medera: That is 100% correct Commissioner Plummer. Mr. Plummer: Is that both for garbage and trash? Mr, Medera: That is both for garbage and trash/ rubbish. Mr. Plummer: I guess the obvious question is why is it taking you sQ long to do that? INAUDIBLE REPLY: -- 21 SEP 151517 Maybe Pate: Well, let me put it another way. tet the ask a question another way, Ate We going to be close to national standards with your proposed budget or are we going to be above national standards? •. Mr. Medera: We will be below national standards Mr. Mayor at this point and time. Mayor Ferre: You mean in efficiency. Mr. Medera: In efficiency. In pro activity, tons per true hour. Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you ask you this. Mrs. Gordon: Are those packets you have there meant for Us? May l have one please? Mr. Medera: Sure. Mayor Ferre: While you're passing those out may I continue... Mr. Medera: Yes please. Mayor Ferre: In the northern parts of the country, doesn't the weather have something to do with the efficiency factor and number two in the south, and by that I mean Georgia, and Florida because when you get up to North Carolina or South Carolina it gets to get a little cooler, but perhaps South Carolina or Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama , or Florida, are we within the range or we under that range of efficiency? Mr. Medera: Mr. Mayor, in a effort to answer your question which seems to be multi- faceted yes, the weather does have a bearing. Northern communities are one ball - game . Southern communities are another. Ok, however, they're both essentially relative. Where you have the extremely hot summers in the south detrimental to a work force the opposite hand shows that you have extremely severe winters in the north which are troublesome to a work force in a solid waste system where men go out in a southern community such as Miami in the terrible heat of the summer and sweat and suffer from heat frustration, sun stroke, whatever you want to call it. In a northern community in the winter time those same men would go out and suffer from frostbite on their fingertips, on their earlobes and there have been numerous occasions when those same men might have to be called in off the refuse collection in northern communities. I don't know that that totally answers your question,but... Mayor Ferre: How about the efficiency factor? Are we below or over the efficient... I'm sure you have all the figures and standards and what -have -you for Jacksonville, Tampa, Atlanta, Savannah,Georgia, so on. Mr. Medera: We're below those averages Mr. Mayor at this point and time. Mayor Ferre: Both in Florida and in the South? Mr. Medera: Both in Florida and in the south and we are not only below those averages now but we will even be below those averages with this new improved refuse collection system. Mayor Ferre: Alright,thank you. Rev. Gibson: You know that, how you explain it? I'm a little dense.... Mayor Ferre: The efficiency average is picking up garbage, tons per day or tons per hour..or what? Mr. Medera: Yes those are pounds per man hour based on the number of hours that a man and or a crew work in a day in cent system Commissioner Gibson. Could I clear it up for you by giving you an example? Rev. Gibson: No, no, two things. I heard you refer to the norm for the south. An awful lot of you all like to talk about that and you know Miami is really known for the south. You have to keep in mind you can't rate us with those cities that you're talking about. Mr. Medera: I'm talking about the weather .... Rev. Gibson: No, no, but I understand that weather better than most. He just got here. I know about the weather, you know. Yes, I understand that, but I'm talking about the normal production. You know, I don't want that jogging up here to the point, you know, we pass, and then we get it. Now I also know that usually, I heard the Police budget. This isn't true of Fire. I heard that Police budget and I'm thinking about the Sanitation budget and I'm looking you dead in the eye. Usually, it has been and it ain't - 22 SEP 1519V 4 going to change. If anything it's going to be worst. We ain't going to get no Pickup. We going to be the guys who suffer. Always this happen and 2 have no light to guide my future but the light of the past. See, they ain't about to go to Bay Heights and not you know... You.,understand what I'm talking about. Mr. Plummer: Go ahead Father, I don't live in Bay Heights. Rev. Gibson: You know where Noc-a-tee is, ok. Well, wherever, you know they're going to pick that garbage up around there, you're going to see to that. Mr. Medera: Are you saying Commissioner that certain refuse collection service, rubbish collection would suffer in areas that might not be as affluent as Bay Heights as an example? Rev. Gibson: Well, if you want me to call it that. You see when you cut the budget, you know I happen to know to the victor goes the spoil and the crime baby gets the attention. You know because you believe if they raise enough hell sbmething is going to happen where you're concerned. Mr. Medera: That the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Rev. Gibson: Right. You think you're doing this city, well not you, everybody who's making this budget up, you all think this is .... ? Mr. Medera: Commissioner in some it's my professional opinion that the services rubbish wise and garbage wise throughout the City of Miami will not be affected whatsoever by the budgetary reductions that we have submitted. The contrary is my professional opinion that those services will in fact be improved sir. Rev. Gibson: I hope, I hope my God doesn't let me be here when I hear the squeaking of the wheel. I hope my God doesn't let me be here. Ok, that's all. Mr. Plummer: Let me ask about the downtown area. We're still picking up garbage in the downtown area? Mr. Medera: Yes sir two days a week. Mr. Plummer: Alright. Now, wasn't there a provision of what time these people or the merchants would put their garbage out? Mr. Medera: Yes sir there was. Mr. Plummer: Not prior to what time? Mr. Medera: 6 A.M. Commissioner. Mr. Plummer: I'm talking about at night. Mr. Medera: They were to have the refuse out sometime prior to 6 A.M. In other words, we have tried to prevent the merchants from putting out rubbish at 5:30 P.M. or 6 P.M. when he closes his store. We would prefer to have the garbage out at 6 A.M. in the morning. Mr. Plummer: Well, I remember very well bringing up when we went to this new system of the downtown the problemsof having garbage all over the streets when stores wanted to stay open and people were having to do tippy toes through the garbage. And as I recall there was some provision. It seems like to me that the garbage would not be put out until after 9:00. Well, let me tell you what you're finding if you are not aware,ok. You're finding right now and I'm not going to pin point the spots because I don't want to pick on anybody. But there's one spot in the downtown area that a restaurant closes at 5:30 and they put out consistently every evening 20 to 25 of these bags of garbage on the sidewalk and people have to do a hodge-podge skip rope to get over it. Now, I'm going to say this and then I'm going to leave it to you and your professional opinion. If that's good service in a pigs eye. Mr. Medera: Commissioner Plummer I couldn't agree with you more wholeheartedly that there is significant room for improvement in garbage collection, rubbish collection in the CBD (Central Business District). We as a municipality pick up two days a week throughout the CBD and that is no where as near all of the services that are necessary to be made in CBD meaning in essence that there a good number of the majority as a matter of fact of services that are made in the central business district are made by a private sector. It is within the ability of the Mayor and the City Commission to adopt certain legislation to protect the residents from walking through gummy gooky-goo as well as a time element as to when that merchant may or may not put out a refuse for collection. Mt. Plummer: Well, I appreciate you throwing the hot potato. but you're the prof' essional and that's what I'm paying you for sir. Mr. Medera: What is your specific question•.Commissioner Plummer? ;se Mr. Plummer: My specific question is how can the problem be addressed of sidewalks full of garbage when merchants are still open. Now, I'm not saying that we've got to set a legislative policy. You in your professional opinon,should we have a collection pick-up at 6:00 or 5:30? I don't know the answers sir. Mr. Medera: It is my opinion that we should have a refuse collection service in the CBD for those commercial accounts and/or services which we're obligated by code to perform. Sometime between-- commencing sometime around 4 to 5 a.m. in the morning which means that the refuse would have to be put out by the merchants sometime after he closes shop the night before. Mr. Plummer: That doesn't answer the problem sir. Mr. Medera: The answer is in conjunction with that, that the material that that merchant puts out must be containerized in one form or another, either plastic bag or plastic container, galvanized container or roll -out container. Just as a point of information Commissioner Plummer we are presently or the Sanitation Department is presently working with the Downtown Development Authority on the feasibility of a roll -out container system for merchants throughout the CBD beyond the talking stages it has not gotten at this point, but we are in that situation of discussing it. Mr. Plummer: Sir, that doesn't mean it's a problem. The problem is other night, let me give you an example Joe,.. Mr. Grassie: I've been down there in the last two days and I agree with you that there is a serious problem. I've been waiting for Frank to get back from the hospital to talk with him about this. Could I suggest Commissioner that we will bring to you both a program and legislation within the next month on this? Mr. Plummer: Alright, you know I agree, but the problem that I have Mr. Grassie is that if you bring this program which I can foresee is meeting additional personnel to correct the problem. Mr. Grassie: No sir. With the budget that we have the department will have personnel to conduct this program. Mr. Plummer: Alright, I just think the other night it was in the one specific instance sir, people were going to a concert at Gusman Hall and they had to go through a wall of garbage that had already been placed on the street to get to Gusman Hall. Now, sir that to be is wrong. It's wrong and I'm going to go back and I'm going to check the minutes because it's my recollection that they were not to put that stuff out before a certain time and that if they did they would keep it off of the sidewalk area where people would have free access of pedestrian walkway. And, I think it's in the minutes Mr. Clerk, if you'll send me a copy when we switched over to that? Mr. Grassie: Let us get you within the next month or so Commissioner, let us get you a specific, program for improvements. Mr. Medera: Are there any other questions Mr. Mayor? Mr. Plummer: The only other question I have Mr. Grassie, explain to me so I fully understand and maybe to the rest of the Commission , in the way of call backs they are positioned to lose what 22 general fund employees. Mr. Medera: 21,22,23,24,25. Mr. Plummer: Now, are these part of the call backs? Mr. Grassie: Yes sir. Mr. Plummer: And, you are basing your comment on these Peo$e , these 25 being called back when you say that you can maintain the level of service? Mr. Grassie: No sir. Mr. Medera: No sir. Mr. Plummer: Ok. Let's get to the thin line. You're saying without these 25 being called back you cannot maintain the level of service. 24 SEP 151977 III 1111111111M Fifa Gtas§ie No, we're not saying that. You've asked the same question, you know... 4 Medeta In a different way. Mr. Grassie: In a different way. But we are saying Commissioner what we've said ih this entire budget is that the level of service that that is being described by the department whenever they come up here to describe it to you that level of service is predicated on the budget which is here which does not. I repeat, does not include the return of employees through the C.E.T.A. alternative. Now, you remember that in the letter of explanation there is a specific exception with regard to the Fire Department. Mayor Ferre: Alright are there any other questions of Solid Waste, if not, then we'll proceed with the at this time of the Department next item? Thank you very much. Mrs. Gordon: One question in the statement you made would part of that loss of efficiency be a result of opposed to other areas that have front yard pick-up? on that? about the efficiency Mr. Medera, the back yard pick-up as Would you put your finger Mr. Medera: Yes ma'am. Well, I'm not quite certain that I understand your question. Mrs. Gordon: Well► you made a statement before. Mr. Medera: A curbside service. Curbside garbage service is far more efficient than a rear yard refuse collection service such as we are presently performing. Does that answer your question? Mrs. Gordon: It does because of the fact that you stated that we are below the national average in efficiency. And, if in fact,the national average is based upon front yard, curbside, you know, are they all, are the standards for the comparisons the same? Mr. Medera: Yes they are. It's back yard to back yard and those are the statistics that have been presented to you. Mrs. Gordon: Thank you. Rev. Gibson: What about the Commission? You have trees plenty of them around here, you know what I man, because I don't see the same amount of footage in some of those cities you're talking about that we have around here you know. Mr. Medera: Commissioner Gibson the statistics averages productivity numbers that have been presented to you pertain to garbage, tote, barrow system, carrier from the back door do not contain any reflection on rubbish picked up from the curb line in any form, horticulture waste, white goods, bulk materials, etc. Mayor Ferre: Let me ask you this? As you know the City of Coral Gables, Metropolitan Dade County and everybody else charges directly for their garbage pick-up on a separate ... How many households do we serve and what would be the charge on per household basis if you were to divide this up? Mr. Medera: We service Mr. Mayor approximately 107,000 services throughout the city. However that number can be misleading because that includes commercial structures such as multi -family units, etc. I would have to work up a user charge number for you broken down by single family residences, multi -family reisdences and other commercial structures. Mayor Ferre: Metropolitan Dade County charges what? What is it $75.00 a year? Mr. Medera: Yes. Mayor Ferre: And, Coral Gables is in that range right? Mr. Plummer: Yes they're $96.00. Mayor Ferre: They're close to $100.00. So if you divide $100.00 into $11,789,000 you come up with about $100.00 a unit and since they're multi units it'll probably be less. Let me ask you this, what's the difference between picking up as we do now and the back of the yard and picking up at the front like Metro does in containerized units? Mr. Medera: What is the difference? Mayor Ferre: Yes, in dollars, 25 Mr. Medera: Mr. Mayor, if the City Commission were to say that it was their policy pick up curbside as opposed to rear yard service we could save approxiiately 13 1/3% of the $11,000,000 that we are presently spending... Mayor Ferre: That high? Mr. Medera: Yes sir. Mayor Ferre: That high? Mr. Medera: Yes sir. Mayor Ferre: Alright,now let me ask you this. Mrs. Gordon: I wonder whether the people would accept that as off°'set otit tedaction in Police and Fire services which are lifesaver services. Mayor Ferre: Let me go to the next step on this. Let re follow the trend of this. Now suppose,you see, what I like about Bill Gunther insurance deal is that it's going to reduce premiums 40%, but if you want to pay for the extra you'll allowed to pay for it. You want extra protection, you want extra coverage, you want it for the lawyer's fees and all this you can do it. See that constitutional amendment would not deprive you of paying extra if you want that extra protection, but it won't force you to. Now let me ask you this. Suppose we were to have green and red signs or blue and yellow or something that would be next to the garbage container, those people that want their garbage picked up in the front there's no increase, I mean they don't have to pay anything, those that want it picked up on the back they got to pay. I may want mine to be picked up in the back so I'll save the extra. It might be 20 or 30 dollars. Now let me ask you this, you say that the difference between picking up in the front and picking up in the back is as high as a third of. this cost? Mr. Medera: Yes. Mayor Ferre: Now if I multiply right a third of $12,000,000 is $4,000,000, Mr. Medera: That's correct. Mayor Ferre: That's a lot of money. Mr. Medera: Yes it is. Mayor Ferre: Alright now let me ask you this, suppose we went to a system where you want your garbage picked up in the back you gotta pay for the extra service. Now you said $107,000 units which is about $100.00 per unit. I'm just averaging and I'm sure it will work out different. So let's say just for argument sake that we're going to come up with a system where garbage is going to be containerized and picked up at the front curb unless somebody wants it picked up in the back and if they do they've got to pay the extra $35.00 a year. Mr. Medera: Very feasible system to design Mr. Mayor. Mayor Ferre: Would you feel that that has merit? Mr. Medera: Absolutely. Unquestionable. Mayor Ferre: Is that a way Mr. Manager that you can pick up 3 to 4 million dollars? Mr. Grassie: I think that we can pick up significant money that way Mr. Mayor, yes . Don't pin me down to the three or four million, but we can get real money. Mayor Ferre: Well, I think the thing that I'm heading for is that when we get to the public section portion I intend to ask all the people that ---(where is Gene, did Gene leave?) Well, Gene and Don, I don't'know I'm sure you're involved in it and all of you guys are involved in bussing all those people down there to ask us questions, Perhaps there may be a way that you might ask them. Would you mind having to tote your garbage out to the front and putting it into a container at your own expense? Mr. Plummer: You just put out another thousand people. Mrs. Gordon: Well, what did you say J.L.? Mayor Ferre: And, brought out another thousand people. But in light of reduction of Fire and Police services there might be a way out. You follow me Pon? I'm not sure that that's something we want to do. I'm just saying that's something we ought to 26 S EP 1513a consider. That may be an alternative. Alright,that's all I have. We better start l inking into that. Mrs. Gordon; Also if we could , Mr. Grassie.,you could provide us at some point and time with the statistical information as gertains to all the other governmental bodies in this jurisdictional area and telling us Dade County as to the fees charged and service provided? Mr. Grassie: We have that Commissioner. We'll be happy to do it for you. Mrs. Gordon: Thank you. Mayor Ferre: And, in addition to that I'd like to know who picks up in the back yard? As I understand we're the only ones that do that anymore. Mr. Grassie: We have that information we're not the only ones who do it and we will provide that for you. Mayor Ferre: Ok. Metro does not do it. Mr. Grassie: That is correct they do not. Mayor Ferre: And, they have the largest system in the community I would imagine, and they also charge. Mr. Medera: There is a large section of the County of Dade which provides a roll- out container which they furnish to the householder. The householder puts his garbage into the container ... Mayor Ferre: Who pays for that, the County? Mr. Medera: The County originally paid for it and charged it back against the householder who had the opportunity to pay it back over a period of 3 or 4 years. Mr. Plummer: The consumer always pays. Mr. Medera: That's true. The container has the ability to hold four regular garbage cans full of garbage materials the equivalent of 80 gallons. Mrs. Gordon: Isn't it true that the vehicle that picks it up attaches to it a more efficient faster operation? Mr. Medera: That's correct. It's a standard refuse collection vehicle with a special design lift device at the rear end of it which picks up the container, dumps it, puts it back on the ground, the laborer rolls it back to the curbside, the householder rolls it back behind the house. Mrs. Gordon: Isn't it also a fact that there are several cities in Florida that are utilizing that service now? Mr. Medera: Yes that's correct. Mrs. Gordon: Is Ft. Lauderdale one? Mr. Medera: Yes that's correct. And, Atlanta,Georgia just bought 100,000 units as well. Mr. Plummer: I'll tell you I was amazed last Friday I went up to Bahia Mar and I drove through an area that must have been $150, $200,000 homes, and here as I drove down the street are all these green containers out there on the curb. I was amazed. Mayor Ferre: Green containers or you mean where five houses get together and have... ? Mr. Plummer: No1 Mr. Medera: No Mr. Mayor, one container per household. Mrs. Gordon: They're one and they're supposed to be not too difficult for people to move to the front. However, elderly people have some problem with them. Mr. Plummer: Rose, they're on wheels. Mrs. Gordon: I know but there are some elderly people might have a problem, but those cases you could accept those from the curbside pick-up. Mr, Medera: There are many methods to address a situtation where you have an elderly 27 SEP 151971 IIMM01NNEHIE11111111111111111110111111111111111 ihdividual that cannot handle the container himself, a decal on the window or the curb gets painted a red color.... there are many ways. Mayor Ferret Is this one of these things that pulls up? In other words the truck grabs the container and throws it in itself:•.. Mr. Medera: It dumps it over,right. Mr. Mayor for your information we were very premature in looking into this system, premature as far as Mr. Grassie was concerned, but we looked into it anyway and we presented a film to Mr. Grassie on the system and if you're interested in it, if you ask him about it we'll be very happy to show it to you. Mrs. Gordon: We're asking you. Mayor Ferre: Ok. Any other questions? Mr. Medera: Thank you. Mayor Ferre: Thank you sir. 4. PRESENTATION BY LEISURE SERVICES DEPARUENT. Mr. Al Howard: Good morning Mayor, Commission. Our process of budget was a little unique in that we started with one department and came out with two. Now known as Parks and Leisure Services, and I think by doing this and... Mrs. Gordon: Which one are you, Parks or are you Leisure? Mr. Howard: I'm Leisure. Mr. Plummer: Well, who is the Director of Parks? Mr. Howard: At the present time there is none. I'm wearing two hats until that position would be filled. Mrs. Gordon: Is there any reason why you can't be wearing the two hats continuously? Mr. Howard: Well, I feel that this, no reason but I think the streamlining of the departments really would give the Director an opportunity to concentrate on one particular field of endeavor and do a job twice as well. I think in this particular way you can divide your responsibilities and concentrate on ... In other words, you recommend this, correct? Well, this I had discussed with Mr. Grassie sometime ago and he asked me a lot of thought and look at the advantages and disadvantages of having Mayor Ferre: Mr. Howard: to give this two separate Mayor Ferre: You disagree with it? Mr. Howard: No I agreed with it and I think it's going to... you'll do twice as much this way and I think really we've eliminated a lot of duplication. I don't think it's going to place any impact on the budget because what we've done as an example, where we've had recreation people in one particular park and had a ball game and needed the field line we called in a park personnel to do it and we used two people where we have used one. Now we've assigned different responsibilities and really using almost the same personnel. Mrs. Gordon: Well, why couldn't you just do that under one department? I don't understand that analysis whatsoever. Mr. Howard: Well, that's an example of saving services. I think really with an individual working for, when you have so many entities involved here... Mrs. Gordon: How could it be saving Manpower lives when you're going to two of you instead of one? Mr. Howard: Well, I think the personnel below in the long run would be a cost Savings because I think we'll stop duplicating services between the parks and recreation personnel. 28 SEp 151971 Mis. Gordon: What was your total budget for last year, was about 41,4,000,001...7 Mr. Howard: 4,600,000 with everything combined. Mrs'. Gordon: Well, according to what I found in here it was 4,127,000. It could be wrong. Mr. Howard: Yes, but there was inter -departmental services charges of about $483,000.00. Mrs. Gordon: And, your budget for this year for the two parks and leisure amounts to almost to almost five million. Mr. Howard: That includes the golf courses and that also includes the charges for social services which we didn't have on their report, I mean the fringe benefits, social security and the rest of... Mrs. Gordon: You've got to be a CPA with two more degrees to cipher this budget and put all the little pieces together and come up with an accurate figure and use it for comparison to what was before. Mr. Grassie: Commissioner let me help you be a CPA, if you'll turn to page 126. Mrs. Gordon: I saw all the pages. I spent countless midnight hours to ciphering this. I deciphered it. Mr. Grassie: Then you do know the answer. It's relatively simple. Mrs. Gordon: I do know the answer. I'm just saying it's isn't relatively simple at all. It appears to me that what we've done in proliferiating departments is not in my opinion the modern trend that really and you might think opposite but I think otherwise. I think the modern trend is to consolidate departments and personnel rather than proliferiating as we seem to have done in this budget. Ok. Mr. Grassie: Modern trend Commissioner is to not be arbitrary about those things. You don't need to consolidate or proliferiate as you call it arbitrarily. What you do is try to analyze the kind of service that you're providing. Look at the people that you have and decide how best you provide the service. Now that's the approach that we've taken. Mayor Ferre: Are you adding Mr. Grassie up at the top personnel... Mr. Grassie:• No sir. Mayor Ferre: Are you just deploying them differently? Mr. Grassie: That is correct. Mayor Ferre: Ok. Mr. Grassie: The combined budgets include no more to the City now has for this same purpose. positions than Mayor Ferre: It's as if you had a police and fire department and then decided to have a separate police and fire department. Mr. Grassie: You still have to have the same Administration,yes. Mrs. Gordon: That doesn't make sense to have a Parks Director and you have a Leisure Services Director, that's two directors that you only have one director for now. Where are you getting the other director from, some other place? Mayor Ferre: Probably an Assistant. Mr. Howard: ... we had two managers at the golf courses which we've eliminated those positions because it's not necessary and taken the Assistant Director for parks and put him as Golf Course superintendent which is the position he held before which leaves an opening for a Director for the Parks Department so we have not added any personnel at all to that department. As a matter of fact we reduced ... Mrs. Gordon: In other words directors don't make any more than those other personnel that are being placed in the minor positions. It pays the same thing. Mr. Howard: It would as a matter of fact be less than those two people, the salary would be less than the two that were there before. 29 SEP 151977 Mayor Ferrel In other words one would make less than two. That's correct..., t guess it's the old Henry Ford principle that if you have a problem or cote' thing you can always solve it by breaking into components parts which is what made Henry Ford a very successful man. - Mr. Howard: Well, we feel that the reductions was for very minimum in our department because most of the positions were open will not have an impact because of streamlining the Recreational Department, of changing hours to meet the necessary needs when the time is greatest by going to a almost comprehensive mobile parks maintenance program that we will be able to render the same services that we have there. And,to answer Commissioner Plummer's question we did not have any request that was used in the budget on presentation. Mr. Plummer: ments from a correct that Mr. Howard: that were in Your proposed total and I've got to go to a total of the two depart - single department to two departments. It is my understanding if I'm you're showing a layoff of 19. Twelve of those positions were vacant and we're laying off seven(7) the Parks Department. Mr. Plummer: How many total people do you have? Mr. Howard: In the parks we have 154 and in the recreation we have approximately 110 I believe. Mr. Plummer: Those are general funds. Mr. Grassie: No. Mr. Plummer: Does that include C.E.T.A.? Mr. Grassie: Speaking of general fund only Commissioner. If you look at page 126, page 126.. Mr. Grassie: You will find that from a beginning figure of 463 positions which is at the top of the corner of the page. Just keep that in mind as the beginning point on page 161 you will 113 positions. I'm talking about general fund only not C.E.T.A., and on page 129... Mayor Ferre: You're not comparing apples to apples because in 463 includes 171 C. E.T.A.? Mr. Grassie: Yes that's why I'm making that point. Mr. Plummer: If you go to the page 126 at the top FY-77 for the two departments was 463, plus 61 C.E.T.A., no, no, it's a total of 463, and you come up with the two departments of 463 in the 78. So in other words then that figure indicates to me no layoffs at all. Mr. Grassie: Well, no this is the change. What this indicates up here is that you go from the positions that are authorized in the current budget to zero so the change is for 463. It's a negative 463. Mr. Plummer: How many people are you laying off Mr. ... ? Mr. Howard: Seven. There were twelve positions vacated in parks, a total of 19, seven that were in positions and in recreation there was four part-timers and four positions that are all vacated that we abolished. So between the two departments leisure services and parks we only eliminated seven positions. Mayor Ferre: From the way I count I see 34 eliminated, because there were 463 last year and this year there are 429. Mr. Howard: Yes, but as I say there were 19 in parks only seven of those positions were filled. There was eight in recreation none of which was filled, and plus the four part-timers . Mr. Plummer: If you put the golf courses on concession, how many people would be involved? Mr. Howard: About 20 full-time personnel, 22 and 10 part-time, Mr. Plummer: If you put the Marinas on concession how many people would be.,, Mr. Howard: I don't know Conuaissioner. 30 Ep 15197/ Mk, G±assie: That's a different department Commissioner, Mr, Plummer: Ok. Mts. Gordon: Mr. Howard in the Parks Divibion do you now or did hired an architect draftmen or any of those kinds of persons? Mr. Howard: We have one landscape architect that's under funds from Community Development and he's assigned to our department. years ... Mrs. Gordon: Is that listed on here on the number of personnel? Mr. Howard: No that would be listed under C.D. you before and that we received In the oncoming Mrs. Gordon: Oh, well how many others under C.D. are listed that are part of your department? Mr. Howard: In the Parks Department in the Planning Section that is the only one there that we have from C.D. Funds, the landscape architect. Mrs. Gordon: You don't have any draftmen? Do you have any other personnel of that sort other than ... Mr. Howard: Yes we do but not under C.D.. Mrs. Gordon: Is it here on the page referred to as 161, is it here? Mr. Howard: That's leisure services. 5k PRESENTATION BY THE PAWLS DEPARTNEN , Mrs. Gordon: I'm sorry. What page is the Parks? Mr. Howard: 129. Mrs. Gordon: Ok. Fine. Mr. Howard: The Parks Planning Coordinator was a C.E.T.A. position and that was just filled. That position was vacated about three months ago and that's now been filled. The landscape architect is a C.E.T.A. position. The planning technician has since been put into... Mrs. Gordon: I don't see it here on this list. Will you point it out to me where it is, the landscape architect on the C.E.T.A. position you said? Mr. Howard: I think it's listed as the Planning Technician because we have received the funds for a landscape architect. Mrs. Gordon: I don't see it under Planning Technician either. Mr. Howard: I think it's listed here as Planning Technician. Mrs. Gordon: No it's not. Mr. Howard: In the C.E.T.A. below on page 129. Down at the bottom with C.E.T.A. That is the landscape architect. Mrs. Gordon: Oh I see, that's your landscape architect? What does the engineering technician do specifically for you? Mr. Howard: He does our drafting. He works in hand with the landscape architect, does the general plans for the park development under a bond program. Mrs. Gordon: I just wonder why we have these kinds of personnel in your department when we have them all in Public Works? Why do we have them in both places? Why can't your work be done in Public Works? Mr. Howard: There is a lot of design work on the parks before they're submitted to Public Works, so a lot of these plans are done in our departments and then submitted to them for final drafting. SEP 151971 Mrs. Gordon: For information, Mr. Howard: 1 beg your pardon. R Mrs. Gordon: I'm asking for information. be, Mr. Howard: I don't believe it could be done over there because I don't think there would be a contiguity. Most of the work is done by that department on the engineering end, but we must have a draftsman to work on the plans, particularly when we're going through about 20 or 30 different parks now under the bond program and then that is submitted to Public Works but it would be very difficult for the landscape architects architect to work in Public Works because he's very closely lined to the parks work that's going on now. Mrs. Gordon: Ok, then we determine there was only one position that you do have funded through C.D. that is not listed on the list of positions you have, correct? Mr. Howard: That's correct. Mayor Ferre: In other words the way I allocated positions including C.E.T.A. which is a decrease of 34 slots. Your which will be comparable to that which an increase of $380,000 which is about see this is that you previously have 463 You now have 429 for the proposed budget previous budget was $4,611,000. The budget is leisure and parks is $4,991,000 which is 8.3%. Mr. Howard: Well, the fringe benefits make them $334,000 that wasn't included in last year's 4.6 plus we had about a $30,000 charge now for garbage disposals which we did not have before by bringing it to land fill. Mayor Ferre: How much did that cost us? Mr. Howard: I think we're paying our department alone $27,000. Mayor Ferre: Alright further questions? Mr. Plummer: Is there anything you requested for your department that you thought was essential that was denied? Mr. Howard: No, because we are working under the bond program and again I don't think we'll have any capital improvement request for the next 3 or 4 years. So we did not request anything in improvements. Mayor Ferre: Further questions? Mrs. Gordon: Yes, I'll like to just bring up a subject related to parks and since it's your ball game until you get another person to throw it to. Mr. Howard: I don't think I'll do that. Mr. Grassie: That's the next budget coming up immediately. Mrs. Gordon: I want to ask you about the New World Center Park- the Bicentennial Park. I had the unfortunate experience of visiting that over the weekend. Mayor Ferre: '0h really! Mrs. Gordon: Yes, I just went to show my family what a wonderful 5 million dollars park we had and wanted to get out of there as fast as we could. There's nothing to do there. No, it isn't. There's absolutely nothing to do there. Mayor Ferre: The reason I laughed Rose because whole process that---- This is exactly what and then Gloria Calhoun and Dan Paul and George if you put anything on there you put one brick_ nothing for grass there and I said look... that was my -- when we started this I kept screaming about -- everybody Reed and everybody came and they said , one yard of concrete , you got Mrs. Gordon: I'm not saying you have to put concrete Maurice. I'm just saying you should have activities there. There is nothing to interest people there. Well, let me tell you that, you know, you've got to look at things with a current view and if you want people to use the park you've got to give them something to use. Mayor Ferre: I wanted to put a baseball field there. Mrs. Gordon: Well, I'm going to tell you you have to put something there and I sincerely mean this and it's appropriate to bring it up now because you're in the 32 SEP 15191n budget process, ok. Alright, another thing and I'm going to complain about this because it's a hazard. The children's playground is a dangerous situation for a young child. There is no safety built into those wooden structures without anyway for a little boy or girl from falling off -a six foot high platform, the little slide. It's unprotected . It's very fortunate a little child did not fall off because her mother grabbed her by the arm. But I think you better look at this because if one little child falls down falls down and breaks its neck let me tell you there won't be enough money to pay that parent for that child's life. So I bring it to you because I went there as a citizen not as a Commissioner. I didn't go there to bring you complaints. I went there to enjoy the park. We stayed as little as we possibly could. We were there on that unfortunate morning also that something took place as you all well know. Mayor Ferre: Oh my God, well no wonder you didn't have a nice time. Mrs. Gordon: Well, even if that-- didn't have that unfortunate experience it wasn't a nice time anyway. There was nothing to have a nice time with. We then went over to Omni to inspect and to have you know a day at Omni and I will tell you that my family enjoyed Omni. They really did. The little ones enjoyed the carrousel. My daughter enjoyed the shop and we enjoyed having lunch there. So I just want to say that people want something to do and Bicentennial has nothing to do. Mayor Ferre: I agree. I'll tell you if Rose Gordon doesn't do it on the record. Let me tell you that if another week we have a session which will be this after- noon I'm going to propose or you propose and I'll second your motion that we immediately proceed to put a baseball field and a football field and a soccer field and tennis courts and all types of things... Mrs. Gordon: I suggest we put something that has a convertible use that you do not have to take and make a tennis court because that prohibits a lot of other people from a large area. However, a soft ball field does not prevent its use for something else, picnic or whatever and another thing trees. There is not enough shade. It's very hot. The walk is very long. You've got to put in a lot more trees than you have now for shade. Mr. Howard: A lot of those trees have not grown. Mr. Plummer: Rose, right under the sculptor that's what it was put there for. Mr. Howard: I think you'll find in a few years the number of trees that there will be a lot of shade there. I mean, the park it's just been opened... we have about 5,000 different... Mrs. Gordon: I promised myself I was going to get it off my chest and thank you for giving me the opportunity. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Howard this Commission took an awful lot of heat about putting parking spaces and we approved it,what's the problem? Mr. Howard: Well, we have a total now about 115 spaces. The black topping is completed but we're waiting for the railing to go in along the bulkhead now., other than that it's ready to go. Mr. Plummer: Not been opened? Mr. Howard: No it hasn't. As soon as the railing goes in the parking will be opened. Mrs. Gordon: J. L. it's graded, but there is not protection there by the water so you wouldn't want to go anywhere near it right now. But there wasn't any need for parking space there was nobody there that needed parking spaces. A few spaces that were around the building there were more than enough. There was plenty of spaces that'd gotten in another hundred people without any problem. Ok. Mr. Grassie: If there are no further questions then Mr. Mayor then the next present- ation which w©uld be handled by Mr. Al Howard is the Parks Department and Golf Courses. Mr. Howard: Well, likewise when we streamlined departments to meet our budget demands we placed individuals that were utilized to some degree in recreation services back into positions of parks in their titles. We moved some people from the cemetery where we were over by two individuals to supplement the parks staff. We had again as I said before seven positions that were filled abolished to meet our budget request, twelve positions that were vacated were also illuminated but we are now in the process of streamlining the operation by going to comprehensive mobile Maintenance. This is where we'll be utilizing in the parks and a rather than doing one or two parks we'll now be visiting maybe five to six different parks in a day and therefore achieving the same ends that we've had before. So I don't see any real severe problems in offering the same services that we have been. 3� SFP 1,51.77 I think that we will be hard pressed in some cases but I think with innovations ih maintenance that we will be able to obtain our goals in keeping Miami's parks beautiful. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Howard will it take extra money in your budget to bring about the necessary activities in the New World Park? Mr. Howard: You mean for development of physical facilities? Mrs. Gordon: To make it useable. To make it worthwhile. Mr. Howard: Yes. Yes. Mrs. Gordon: Will it take extra money? Mr. Howard: If we were to put in some tennis courts and ... Mrs. Gordon: I don't want that personally. You put tennis courts in there you're taking a lot of space away from the park but you can put in the... Mr. Howard: Well, tennis courts could be made into a multi use area. They could be used for basketball, tennis, they could be used for volleyball, a lot of things could be done on a multi use area. Mrs. Gordon: Depending on how many you're talking about. Mr. Howard: Right. Well I think in a place like that eight courts would.be.uery well used. It's a big park we have 33 acres and we have ... Mrs. Gordon: You take a tennis court Mr. Howard and you put in two or four people in a large space that's all you can put in to play at one time. That to me is a waste of a lot of space. That is not what I'm talking about and I don't want to give you the impression I'm for tennis courts, I'm not. I love tennis courts in appropriate places, but not in that particular park. I think you need to think along the lines of a multi used space that'll bring in a lot of people, not just a little handful, two or four players in a large court. Mr. Howard: Even if we're going to put a ball field in there we'll still need additional funds to renovate that field for a ball field, putting in backstops and bases, etc., but I think it could be done. We do have the space. We had requests from the Downtown College even for this. Mayor Ferre: I've always been for it, baseball, ok, forget tennis, but baseball, softball, all that type .... football, soccer.... Mr. Grassie: Mr. Mayor, should we interpret this discussion to be a request on your part that we develop some kind... Mrs. Gordon: Yes. Mayor Ferre: I'm going to make it formal in a little while if Rose doesn't... Mrs. Gordon: I'll make it formal because I want ... not now, but later. I want you to do things to make it active. Make it an active park. Mayor Ferre: Amen. See, the trick around here is to be patient. You sit around and wait long enough, if you happen to be right about things eventually these things falls in place. Mrs. Gordon: You sound like J. L. Mayor Ferre: Thank you very much Al. Mr. Howard: Thank you. Mayor Ferre: Mr. Grassie? Mr. Grassie: Unless you have further questions about the Parks Department, We have treated both of them together with Leisure Services, are you done on that one? If so, we're getting back on schedule. 34 SEP 15197/ ftIts INW PRESENTATION BY PUBLIC WAGS tEPARPENTi Y Mr. Grassie: The next presentation Mr. Mayor would be the Public Works Department. Mr. Bill Parkes, the Director of the Department will handle the discussion Mr. Mayor. Mayor Ferre: I'd like to make this request that - since we have Public Works and then we're supposed to break up for lunch. Are we going to have lunch here by noon? Mr. Grassie: We have lunch here already , it's planned already. I presume that it's going to be here on time. Mayor Ferre: The reason I'm asking is this because otherwise I want you to - who- ever is in charge of Planning now should be ready to... because you might be able to do that before lunch. Mr. Grassie: We can do that. Mr. Plummer: That's going to take a long time. You better believe it is. Mrs. Gordon: Why? Mr. Plummer: There ain't no decreases there baby.... Mayor Ferre: Alright, go ahead. Mr. Parkes: To meet the budget demands and reduction of the Department of Public Works was asked to do. We took it into three categories. First of all, personnel, services, and a commodity which we thought we could decrease the service in. The three categories are first of all, street lights which was now put into our budget as a general operating budget. We will reduce the street lighting program by $150,000. This will mean that we will not do all of the districts that we had planned to do during a given year. This will have a long range effect and the fact that next year your light bill or your power bill will be decreased or by the $150,000 area that you've intended to put in. So it has a long range effect. The second one would be the elimination of a sidewalk replacement program. This is our Operation's Division going out and replacing the broken sidewalk by uprooted trees or whatever. They tear out the sidewalk --- replace it with new at no cost to the property owner. As you eliminate this service we had to switch it over into a contractual basis because we cannot do without that service alternately. So to elmmiiate out of the general budget we put it over into the contractual services whereby we can take care of bond monies without a contract for the replacement of sidewalk and do it in a different funding. This would elmiiiate approximately 21 people within our department. Sixteen of these are vacant positions which we held. We were not anxious to fill these vacancies as they occurred knowing that this was coming up at the end of the year so we had sixteen vacancies on hand which we could eliminate. No personnel to be dropped. One person would be transferred to another department where it's more effective and more efficient and that would mean a total layoff of four individuals. Now, I have before the Manager a proposal that I might be able to put back into service, the sidewalk replacement program utilizing three of those persons who had been laid off, three of the masons. If he gives me a go on that that report went in yesterday so he hasn't had time to see it. So it's not his fault there. But if he gives me a go ahead there I have sufficient funds from other sources that came back to reinstate these three masons, put them back into payroll and continue our program as we have it as of this year. Now, this sidewalk program is something that we started years ago and is similar to what we did in Coconut Grove Area and if we can put it back into the general fund we can do seven miles of sidewalk with the same amount of money if we do by contract three and a half miles. When we have 1,100 miles of sidewalks in this City of Miami which about over 25% are in need of repair.This is quite a savings to the city and if you see the Law Department and if you see the agenda every Commission meeting the trip and fall cases that you get we have many more that don't get to you that we must investigate. There seems to be the for trip and fall cases. So if we could keep our sidewalks up we feel that that's a very, very important thing for us. So if I can get the concurrence from the Manager on that one issue I will reinstate those three masons. That will be one total loss of personnel with sixteen vacant positions being abolished. Now to answer your questions I'll try to answer them in the order you ask them. We are both cutting people and money.. Mrs, Gordon: What did you say just now? Mr, Parkes; We are cutting both people and money from our budget so we're doing 35 SEP 151977 IOW both it that case. There was nothing really essential in our budget that was denied. We got everything that we asked for other than these personnel and t think we can walk around that very easy by -shifting our responsibilities and working a little harder I think we can make it. Then, your third question, the alternate to laying off personnel -Obviously, we considered that by decreasing some of our programs such as the street lighting. Rev. Gibson: I didn't that last... Mr. Parkes: Alright. The alternates as to laying off people. Instead of laying off people we will just think of alternates. The alternate was that we would decrease our street lighting program by $150,000. Mr. Plummer: Is that the new or present? Mr. Parkes: That is a new district we will re -do. We are cutting our program just about in half of what we would have ordered this coming. year we're just cutting that in half. Mr. Plummer: What is the percentage of this city that's now done? Mr. Parkes: About 56% of the city has the or the paper. Mr. Plummer: How much will that do this year? What will be the percentage after you have spent the allocation for additional? Mr. Parkes: The 120 some thousand dollars will to put out --- would do about 31/2 spread lots and I don't have the percentage of what that is in the area. Mr. Plummer: Are you proposed to cut 150,000? Mr. Parkes: We would normally do about seven square miles this year. We're going to do 31/ ---- budget adopted. Mr. Plummer: But to go back to the regular scheduling it would take an additional 150,000 for that? Mr. Parkes: Yes. Mr. Plummer: I would like later on that you give me a figure if we go and reinstate the 150,000 what the percentage would be at the completion of this year? Mr. Parkes: Alright. Mrs. Gordon: Which areas are scheduled to receive lights in this budget year? Mr. Parkes: The next one would be the West Grapeland Area which is from N.W. 7th Street to 20th Street, from 27th Avenue to 37th, that's the one that's pretty Mrs. Gordon: That's the entire sum total that we're going to be able to do this year. That area. Mr. Parkes: -Yes in that area. Mr. Plummer: And, if you reinstate the 150,000 what else would be done? Mr. Parkes: Well, we would continue that program through another 312 square miles. Mr. Plummer: But I mean where? Mr. Parkes: Well, I don't have that right here in front of me. Mrs. Gordon: What is the normal spacing of poles? Mr. Parkes: 150 feet on a staggered basis. That is one pole on one side of the street 150 feet north or west on the other side of the street, 150 staggered. Mrs. Gordon: It should be that way. as frequent as that. Mr. Parkes: recommended, we have 150 changing our There are some areas that were... they're not We are evaluating that. That is the normal and that is what is yet we have a test section that I went and looked at Monday night where foot spacing on one side and I believe it's better. So we may be criteria. Well, take a look if you will , ride down Bayshore Drive 36 SEP 151977 r at flight and didn't measure it off but I would imagine there are spaces that Ate spaces that are twice that much between lights. Mr. Parkes: Foliage makes a lot of that., Mrs. Gordon: A lot of foliage that breaks the quality of the light, number ohe and the spacing seems to be at least 300 and some spaces, more than one space, Mr. Parkes: We'll check that. Mrs. Gordon: Please check that. Rev. Gibson: May I ask this, I was at a dedication the cther day where apparently a light pole was in the way of what I think the city agreed would be a driveway and they had to give up that driveway in order to comform. I wonder since you are ... I wonder isn't it possible for them to kind of move that light pole and not give up that driveway. The man has a medical outfit, and I'm just wondering about the ambulance service, you know, I don't want the impossible but it would appear to me, this is on 27th Avenue and it would appear to me that maybe , you know, if we could bend a little, move that light pole, either this way or that way or back this way to help that man. As not so much help him because we may save a life and I hope that.... it's on 27th Avenue and about 13th, it's a new doctor's office on the westside of the street. Mr. Parkes: West side of 27th Avenue? Rev. Gibson: On the westside of 27th Avenue. He just moved in there about two weeks ago and there might be an extinguishing circumstances. The pole might have a underground nearby or something where we can sure look into it and get back... Rev. Gibson: Please, please, you know, and I want to thank you all about what is it S.W. 8th Street and about 36th Avenue. I don't know what all has happened but there is some improvement there and certainly I don't see that river of water that used to be there but evidently they're permitting them to pump or something else now which is a relief to the city and at least makes the citizens think that somebody cares. Mr. Parkes: That's part of our project that we're working on. Mrs. Gordon: I want to ask you a question it's one of philosophy approaching the cost factors of design. Wouldn't it be more practicable and cheaper for us to do more in-house design work even if it meant increasing staff by one person or even two design people rather than all the enormous amount of dollars we expend in hiring architects and consulating engineers to do our new project, I mean, I just wonder about that. I've oftened wondered about it every time we give out a contract I wonder about it. Mr. Grassie: Commissioner. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Grassie: the past and and in-house We have a balance that we're trying to maintain in that regard Maybe I'll ask Vince Grimm to speak to this. I'd like to know. He's got a good historic prospective of what the city has done in I think that we're trying to achieve a good balance between outside professional service. Mr. Grimm: To simplify it if you took percentages of cost as what it takes you to do engineering or architecture there is so much work that the people on our staff can do and that's set at about $20,000,000 worth of work a year. Our greatest proficiencies in the Public Works Department lie in the engineering lines. We don't feel that anybody, anybody I don't care who they are can compete with us when it comes to sanitary designs, design or highways. They can't do this cheap and they can't do it as well. Where a difference of opinion comes in is in architectural and here you get into not only the economics of the project but the style. If you'll remember not so long ago we brought before you five little parks project, each of which you all rejected. You had thought we done a lousy job on what we'd designed. Now that's one of the reasons why we go to outside consultants we get a variety of styles and we get something that is more acceptable to the community. Mrs. Gordon: Well, I don't buy that Vince in your analysis of what you just said. First of all when you're dealing with tedovation in those parks for basically that. Mr. Grimm: Yes ma'am. -- 37 SEP 151977 s Gordon: Additions in renovation. You're not dealing with ah oppottuhity to create a new design from Stretch. Mt. Grimm: We didn't feel so either. Mrs. Gordon: Ok. So you can't ballyhoo something that was developed with that kind of beginning as an example of whatever it is you're trying to convey to the right now that is you don't feel that we have the capabilities in-house apparently that's what you're saying. Mr. Grimm: I didn't say that. Mrs. Gordon: I think... my point was if you don't have enough you get some more and the cost benefit analysis which is the end result what are you paying dollar wise for outside work being done or what you could save by doing it in-house, you know I think you could save quite a bit. And, I noticed another thing that really you go to outside consultants when you're doing a renovation of an existing structure. I wonder why you think that our in-house staff is capable enough who- ever they might be for that and not capable enough to create a new model. I don't understand that. Mr. Grimm: Well, I thought I had answered that and you've got to keep in mind to that the bulk of the renovation jobs that are done in-house so to speak are small. In other words $100,000 or less. Mrs. Gordon: When we were doing the C- building over there on Little Havana in-house weren't we or did we have outside consultants? Mr. Grimm: We did it in-house and if you'll remember correctly the Commission decided to tear the building down and build a new one. Mrs. Gordon: Because it wasn't worth saving in the first place and we should have saved a lot of manpower dollars if we had done that to begin with in the very beginning when I told you should (I'm going to try it J.L. Plummer I told you so). I told you the building was no good. Mr. Grimm: That's part of what we're talking about when we say it gets into a matter of opinion. Let's take the Legion Building as an example. In my opinion the city could have never afforded to tear down the Legion Building and build a new one for what we did with the renovations. We renovated that building for $20.00 a square foot. It's not going to win any architectural prizes but it is going to provide a good service to the community, but that's part of where this comes along. Mayor Ferre: And the same thing is true that Sanctuary and Little Havana, the church. There's no way you can replace that for the amount of money.... Mrs. Gordon: Well, that's the subject for another day, but.... Mr. Grassie: If I could summarize Commissioner the basic approach that we take is that we try and do in-house all of the work that we have staff for keeping in mind what constitutes a level quantity of work and we try and give the peaks the big jobs, the occasional jobs off to the consultants and we maintain a stable workforce and do as much job as we can and take off the peaks with consultants. Mrs. Gordon: I can understand the $3,000,000,000 and up jobs that we are giving out like that. Mayor Ferre: No it's not. That's not $3,000,000,000 is it? Mr. Grimm: Well, I think Dinner Key Auditorium if that's... Mayor Ferre: Oh no, no, is that what you're talking about Dinner Key? Mrs. Gordon: Yes, that's one, an example the Administration Building is another recent example ... Mayor Ferre: Let me ask the Manager if I may, isn't that similar to the same reason that we go out and hire Bill Frates to do special work rather than do it in-house? We could do it in-house right? Mr. Grassie: Yes. Mayor Ferre: We could get lawyers a lot cheaper than $300,000 I'm sure. 38 SEP 15197/ ■ • Mri Grassie: You know exactly when you have one big job that has to take a lot of people for of tine. Mrs. Gordon: Well, that's comparable to the big job the $3,000,000 jobs that I'm talking about which I can see. Mayor Ferre: Well, for example we spent $75,000 to search for a title in Dupont Plaza, 50 or whatever it was, I forget how much it was that we wasted on that one. Mrs. Gordon: What are you talking about? Mayor Ferre: The Dupont Plaza title search. Mr. Plummer: 25. Mayor Ferre: See that, wee that was a small job for $25,000 and you know we went outside to do that so you know we do small jobs outside too. Mrs. Gordon: No sir that was a none ---- Mr. Grimm: Let me add one more thing I think that might be important for you. Mrs. Gordon: I don't want to debate this with the Mayor because that's a subject again for another day. Mr. Grimm: I said earlier that I don't think anybody can do engineering projects cheaper or better than we can and I stand by that. Our architectual projects, I think that the outside people can compete with us. In other words, the cost to city now to do let's say a quarter of a million dollars building is just about as expensive to do it outside and it would be to do it in-house . Mrs. Gordon: I'm going to give you a compliment. I think you've got a good step. I think you're doing a good job and I would bring this out for that reason ok. Mr. Plummer: Vince is there any truth to the fact that in reference to street lighting you're duplicating engineering? I've been told that we do all of the engineering in-house for the street lighting. Mr. Grimm: We do none of the engineering in-house for street lighting. What we do is decide where the lights are going to go. Now that's different than engineering. Once we say put the pole here, put the pole here then Florida Power & Light figures out how to get the wires to it, what to wire, that's the technical aspect of it. But we reserve to ourselves the decision as to how the spacing should be, how it should accommodate the neighborhood and things like that. Mayor Ferre: Are there any other questions for this department at this time? If not, we have now finished with Public Works. Would you like to take up Building & Zoning, get that over with? Mr. Grassie: Would you prefer that rather than Planning? Mayor Ferre: Yes I think so because Planning might take a little longer. Or 7i PRESENTATIoN $Y BUILDING AND ZONING t€PART'ENTS, Mayor Ferre: Mr. Salamon I want to tell'.you how happy we all are to see you back oh your feet and you're looking healthy and you lost a little weight I think and you got to lose a little more weight. Best wishes. M. Salamon: Yes, yes. I'm feeling better than ever. Mrs. Gordon: You look good too. Mr. Salamon: This is a pleasant task that I have today. First, to answer the three questions I think is very important. Yes we are losing people but not physical people. We are losing people that we never had. Remember that we were working only with 65% of our personnel when we took over and we arranged the zoning of the City of Miami and giving a little more load to inspectors which they. are quite loaded but I tell you the truth I have a department that cooperates 100% they are fantastic. Second, essential items that we are doing are not denied. We can still do our job very qualified and we have a lot of technical personnel with much more qualification than we had before and we are choosing people that are for instance, our plumbing inspectors they are old masters and we got an engineer as a chief of the department, and so things like that we are improving quite a bit even with our very stream budget and alternates,we didn't offer any alternates because we thought that with the amount of money that we had to work with we can produce a good job. Let me tell you some samples. We can give you a building permit in about twenty minutes if you don't have plumbing and electric. We can give you a building permit in two weeks if it's uncomplicated. We process - we have now the of calling architects and processing big projects in preliminary stages so we don't go through a smooth scale development plan and then find out that they cannot do the building. So we are giving that service. We are charging for this. We have a charge for $1.00 per sq. ft. which is what we had before but we are now trying to do it and we are doing a very exhausted job, but I think it's worthlor us as a city and for the architects also that have to work out as an engineer. We are trying to implement a tree planting throughout all the city in the private property , public domain correspond to public works. and we are more or less success, but we have a lot of headaches I tell you the truth but more or less we are successful and we got a lot of planting of trees in private property. Mrs. Gordon: What do you mean, explain that? Mr. Salamon: For instance, old parking lots that are supposed to have trees and trees dead and bushes are torn down and so forth. So we are trying to renovate them. Mrs. Gordon: In private property. Mr. Salamon: Yes, you can do it. There is an annual inspection we do to keep up the city from being a slump. Mr. Grassie: You understand Commissioner it is not that the city is paying for the trees. We are trying to enforce the ordinance to get people who have parking lots to in fact live up to the ordinance which has hardly ever been done before. So there is a question of not simply taking people into court but working with them, encouraging them, sometimes fairly forceful, but you know encouraging them to live with the ordinance and to improve their property and make it look good. Mrs. Gordon: Are we supplying them with the trees? Mr. Salamon: No we are not. Mrs. Gordon: Are we supplying them with the labor to put in trees? Mr. Salamon: No because it's private property. We cannot... Mrs. Gordon: Then what are we doing for them or to them? Mr. Salamon: No, we are trying... Mr. Grassie: We'll keep on talking with them and encouraging them really. That's a question of talking them into it and... Mr. Salamon: We got 89 people in the last budget and now we have 84 so we have a reduction of five people in the entire budget. That means that we have one C.E.T.A. SEP 151971 ihiee§ but that is because we will putting it into the permit. We have promoted tiiie C.E.T.A. people from C.E.T.A. positions to inspectors through training through the department. So in the future we are trying to --all the C.E.T.A, people that we can put them into a permanent position if we•get a budget of course. Well, any questions please? Mr. Plummer: Salamon, you're awful quiet sir about a certain factor. I think you better put it out into the record. Back into the first part of the budget it speaks about a whole lot of increases in fees. Mr. Salamon: Right. Mr. Plummer: You better speak to that. Mr. Salamon: Yes. In some instances we have like a little house that this in addition for instance it cost to the public about $20.00 just to figure something and it cost us inspection and paper work about $100.00. Mr. Plummer: But what you're saying those scheduled anticipation of increasing in fees is the only way that your budget can be balanced. Mr. Salamon: It won't be completely balanced. We hope that we will get it to whatever is shown here. Mr. Plummer: Is it correct to state that if this Commission doesn't approve those fees it will throw your budget out of balance? Mr. Grassie: No sir it is not correct say that. One thing fees charged from this department do not maintain the department but rather go into the general fund. The second item is that the City Commission has already acted on all of these fee increases and you've already done it within the last two months. Mr. Salamon: And let me answer also. Half of our work is not charged for. For instance we have $1,200 poles a month which we have to go and investigate and there is no fee for that. Mr. Plummer: Why isn't it? Mr. Salamon: Because we don't have it provided in our budget. Mr. Plummer: Well, but I'm saying if that's an additonal souce of income and you give relief to the homeowner why haven't we done it? Mr. Salamon: Let me answer why. Now you call me and you say that the neighbor is with his planting on your property to whom I charge if it's not true, if the plants is in the proper position? Mr. Grassie: In other words just like police and fire services there are many city services that simply cannot be compensated strictly on a fee bassis. Mr. Salamon: And that cost us $20.00 an hour to go there. Mr. Plummer: Is the tree removal permit issued in your department? Mr. Salamon: Yes sir. Mr. Plummer: Ok. I have a woman who's house is being uprooted. Is there a woman in charge of those permits? Mr. Salamon: Yes. Mr. Plummer: And, it has been recommended by Parks and Recreation that they be issued a permit and this lady keeps saying that she's not going to give a permit. It's a beautiful tree and the house is being uprooted. I get more information ... Mr. Salamon: Ok. I'll take a look at that. Mayor Ferre: Alright, are there any other questions at this time from Mr, Salamon? If not, thank you very much. PRESENTATION BY TOURISM - PROIJIION eafttmt, Mt. Price: Page 134 and 135 ladies and gentlemen. With the shifting around for the Tourism budget, our budget dollars are relatively unchanged for the job but we want to accomplish for the community next year. While we're talking on Tourism if I could just say something to the Commission you've been reading a lot in the paper about all the problems the Tourism Industry is having and everything is in a very sad condition here in Miami. I'd like to repute that to this extent. They're talking about the City of Miami Beach and no new hotels had been built. But on the main- land ladies and gentlemen there have been twenty new motels and hotels built on this mainland in the last five years. So that to me indicates the faith confidents that these investors, these hotel chains have in Miami. You've got Howard Johnson Downtown, the Omni, the Sheraton International. Merriott just added 75 more rooms. So I feel the industry which does need help but it's not being buried like people would like to have you believe and it's good that you have all these things about trading commerce and banking industry here these are fine but you must remember these are spinoffs from the tourist industry. So again the job that we're commissioned to do is to attract tourist, convention delegates, and more specifically our job is to communicate with the United States and foreign nations for the purpose bringing dollars into this area and the budget I said is relatively unchanged from the previous year. We have a few positions we're not losing them, we're shifting them. We losing them on the city side. But we've been able to not release those people entirely out of work. We are being picked up on the Metro side of the We're able to do this because of the cooperation of Metro and the name of the game today is cooperation. We can't exist here unless we have the cooperation from Metro, Miami, the State of Florida and the United States Travel Service . By working with all these other agencies we think we can continue to do a very effective job for Miami. Mr. Plummer: Lew, I noticed that last year Metro paid us $500,000. What are they paying us this year? Mr. Price: I'm told that it would be $500,000 again. Mr. Plummer: In other words, the cost of operation from Metro hasn't gone up in proportion to the cost of the city. Why? Mr. Price: No. The cost has gone up considerably. The cost of our entire printing, advertising, so forth has gone up a total of 12%. I asked Metro for an additional quarter of a million dollars this year and I was turned down. Mr. Plummer: Well, then doesn't it seem like to me where all of the departments are having to cut back 10% that we should cut back 10% on Metro's services that they receive. I mean, it's just that simple. We're doing it within ourselves. Mr. Price: Well, we're doing Commissioner in effect by shifting these positions with- out losing city personnel. In effect they're picking up that. I'm hoping, I looked at Metro's total budget and know it was increased by a total of 8%. I've also made an appeal to them stating if your budget is increased 10% please increase Publicity & Tourism for 10%. They haven't given me an answer but they did take it under consideration. Now I haven't gotten a final figure from them but ... Mr. Plummer: I hope Mr. Grassie that you will get to Metropolitan Dade County official word that their contractual agreement with us if they do not increase as needed the 10% on their contractual fee that in fact 10% of their services must be reduced. I think it's only fair. Mr. Price: We are reducing services at the airport. Mr. Plummer: Well, but what I'm saying is Mr. Grassie their hearing are over as of early this morning and they're going to meet again I don't know when to adopt their budget and I think something has got to be done by this city to put it on the record that yes, you have an alternate before they adopt their budget. Mr. Price: Well Commissioner I've taken the precaution of starting to reduce some of the services we've rendered for instance at the International Airport. We have gotten permission to do that. Mr. Plummer: I understand that. Mr. Price: So, the shifting around of the personnel in the budget will just about do 42 SEP 15197? What you suggested. Mr. Plummer: Well, 1 think they should givelthe alternative, either to increase their budget with us what they have of the;r'own or be willing to take 10% less service. I think that's fair. We're forcing our own. We're forcing you to cut back 10% and try to hold to the line. Mr. Price: That's correct. Mr. Plummer: And, I just think that we should have it documented that we offer them the alternative. Mr. Grassie: Good point Commissioner. Mrs. Gordon: Lew, you're not going to have the conferences and conventions under your department beginning in this next fiscal year, correct? Mr. Price: That will be a new department. Mrs. Gordon: Removing it from your responsibilities. Also trade and commerce promotions is another area which you had the responsibility for. Mr. Price: No, that's entirely new. Mrs. Gordon: No you did not. That's a new department. Mr. Price: That's right. Mrs. Gordon: The budget for the conferences and conventions is as outlined in our books $679,532.00 is that the same amount that it would have been if it was still in your budget? Mr. Price: No because you see this also takes into convention conference center the amount of money transferring from Publicity to this new department is relatively the same, yes, but under your contract I believe with the University of Miami you've got to do more than what we have been doing. Mr. Grassie: A simple way of answering your question Commissioner is that the Convention Bureau moves into the new department pretty much in tact the way it now is and in addition to that any other monies come out of the conference center bond monies. Mrs. Gordon: Is this a more expensive way to handle the program or less? Mr. Grassie: It should because it will allow us to combine our monies in the Convent. ion Bureau, I'm sorry, with the monies that are available to us through the Conferenc Center. It should, if not reduce our cost give us a lot more resources to work with. In other words we'll be able to work with all the people supported by the Conference Center to help that Convention Bureau. Mrs. Gordon: The point then is had it stayed in the department with you Lew could you have handled the additional responsibilities of the Conference Center what it entailed? Mr. Price: Well, that's a difficult question. Mrs. Gordon: The question is asked specifically because of the additional personnel that is going to be put on board of necessity to operate another department. Mr. Price: I believe those personnel are on board already if I'm not mistaken. Mr. Grassie: Well, not all of them because of course the Conference Center isn't built yet but I'm sure that none of us are so naive that we think that we can put.up that $15,000,000 development and not have any staff, of course, there will be staff associated with the conference center. Mrs. Gordon: You're not talking about the maintenance staff and that sort of thing? Mr, Grassie: No I'm talking about managing staff for that facility and that basically along with the Convention Bureau is what we will be talking about when we get to that budget which of course is a separate budget from what we have now. Mr, Plummer: Yes, because I'll sure like to know how much that directors make. Mr, Grassie: Well, he's not on board, unless you're talking about Jim Connolly who is the Project Director. 43 • Mr. Plummer: I don't know from this page 149 who I'm talking about. But it's proposed that there will be director and a secretary and combined total is $57,000. I want to know what he's proposed to be paid. Because either he's being over paid or the secretary is being over paid or possibly both. Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, go ahead. Mr. Grassie: No, I just was asking for more questions on tourist promotion Mr, Mayor. Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Grassie could you furnish me with a figure at some point in time, how many directors do you have under your control now and how many directors there will be next year? Mr. Grassie: Gladly. Mrs. Gordon: Ok. How many Administrative Assistants do you have now, ok , and how many you anticipate to have next year if any change and how many were on board when you came to work for the city last year, ok? Mr. Grassie: Now that is a simple question which is relatively misleading if you give a simple answer. Mrs. Gordon: Well, you don't have to give it me now because it's not relative to MIMI this conversation. Mr. Grassie: Let me give you an example. Are you aware that Rob Parkins has been with the city for years. He didn't have the title of a director in the new budget rather than have that as an office it is proposed that it be a department. Now, if you understand the position is the same. The pay is the same which changes the title then you know you can work your way through... Mrs. Gordon: Maybe you could just say those that are not part of our personnel now We certainly wouldn't consider Mr. Parkins a new employee., We're not talking ab wt him. But we are talking about... and what I'm talking about is comprehensive understanding of new top level personnel. Ok. Mr. Grassie: Fine. I'll try and give you that not only at the department head level but also at the division head level I think that might help. Mr. Price: In this current budget Commissioners we're not losing any programs or other activities that you've expressed in the past they're all still in the program. 9 'reSentation by Planning Department (The first portion of this item is a summary provided planning Director.) The Planning Department budget was presented by Mr. Planning Director. Also assisting was Mr. Joseph W. Director. by Mr. Rst. posnoeh> Richard L. Fosmoen, McManus, Assistant Mr. Posmoen explained that the FY 77-78 Budget Request was substantially over the Department's FY 76-77 Budget because the request represented consolidation of the Office of Community Development and the intergovernmental coordination function. Further, the request was also based on a proposed contract with Metro Dade County for rapid transit station area design and development. In response to a question by Commissioner Plummer, Mr. Fosmoen explained that the Planning Department budget did not include the Planning Advisory Board, Zoning Board or the Department of Administration for Planning and Zoning Boards all of which have been combined into a new Department - Department of Planning and Zoning Administration Boards. The Planning Department provides service to these Boards. (FROM TAPE) Mr. Grassie: ... City that are either administrative assistant types, division head types, department head types, Assistant City Managers, all of those posit- ions both historically, now and a year from now assuming the present budget and I'll show you that. Now one of the things that will do, for example, is it will point up that traditionally I have had about 175 people presumably attached to my department, to the City Manager's Office called Community Affairs. Mr. Plummer: Which you never saw. Mr. Grassie: Now you know that's simply a fiction and the fiction has to do with Civil Service and a lot of things that you ought to understand. You know Community Development staff was theoretically in my office. Well, it doesn't mean anything. But what I will do for you and I hope that this will answer your question is that I will try and show all of these positions that have any kind of a supervisory responsibility and maybe that will clarify the question. If there are no further questions, Mr. Mayor, ... Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Fosmoen, who is your assistant director, who si your assistant? Mr. Fosmoen: There are two people. One is Dena Spillman who manages the Com- munity Development Program and the other is Joe McManus. Mrs. Gordon: You have two? Mr. Fosmoen: Yes. Mrs. Gordon: On division and the other, regular planning? Mr. Fosmoen: One is Community Development and one is regular planning. Mrs. Gordon: Do you also have any personnel on your team that would be class- ified, architects or engineers of any sort? Mr. Fosmoen: Professional practicing architects? I have a number of people on my staff who were trained as undergraduate ... Mrs. Gordon: ... In architecture by doing planning, that's not what I mean. I mean doing actual architectural work. Mr. Fosmoen: No. Mrs. Gordon: They just happen to have degrees. Mr. Fosmoen: Their undergraduate or graduate training may have been in architect- ure, landscape architecture, I don't think I have any engineers on the staff. Mrs. Gordon: But they're practicing strictly planning? Mr. Fosmoen: That is correct. Mrs. Gordon: All right, I have no further questions, • 4 i PRESENTATION BY CITIZENS sERvICE DEPA iVE4'. Mr. Grassie: The next department, Mr. Mayer, would be ditilMit S+ef ice§i m. AO Parkins. Mr. Plummer: What page are you on, Rob? Mr. Parkins 152. Mayor Ferre: All right, go ahead, Rob. Mr. Parkins: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Commissioners. As the Manager has indicated a couple of times this was essentially the formalization of what had been the unit in the City Manager's Office. In responding to Commissioner Plummer's three quest- ions: If cutting people or dollars what will be the effect on services, we are not cutting either people or dollars; requesting any essential items that were denied, no; and did we propose alternatives to laying off people and what are they, the emphasis for funding in Citizens Services is in the area of federal funds with the amount that we have from the General Fund remaining fairly constant with what we had the year before. So there has not been the need to develop those kinds of alternatives. In carrying you quickly through the Department of Citizens Services if you would like we're proposing five divisions within the department, the first being the Federal Employment Programs Division which will be primarily responsible for overall program planning for the use of CETA Funds, the use of direction and development of Title VI projects and projects that are external to the city employ- ment itself, review the progress of projects, development, corrections, altern- atives and evaluate effectiveness and the development of some jobs if possible in the private sector and on the City of Miami area for participants in the CETA Program. The Citizen Participation Coordination Division will link together a Citizen Response Center, a research and information group, the public opinion cen- ter and a citizen liaison group that will develop, direct forms of communication and information flow to and from civic groups, neighborhood associations, C.D. Task Forces and the City. Social Services Delivery is essentially the combining of those programs that we have traditionally provided directly as City services - a Day Care Program, a community center and our Youth Programs which would include Youth for Youth, Summer Teen Employment, In School Youth Program and the new Title III funded groups. Social Service Agency Coordination is that which we have trad- itionally looked at as the Program Analysis Group for reviewing and recommending Federal Revenue Sharing Programs. It includes not only contract control compon- ents to monitor reimbursements, monitor fiscal activities and provide technical support. Lst the Cultural Experience Coordination Group, that's in concert with the University of Miami Lowe Art Museum andprovides for coordination of community cultural experiences. Mayor Ferre: Which by the way don't forget that we innaugurate that program Sun- day at noon, I hope you can all be there. And it goes from 12 to 5 I think and at 2:00 O'Clock it's open to the public and I understand they've sent out 5,000 invitations. Mr. Parkins: That's right, it should be an exciting experience. I would again emphasize that the funding from the General Fund standpoint is not remarkably dif- ferent than it was the year prior. I believe there is a 17% difference that ac- counts for building in fringe benefits and some additional charges that had not been applied to this budget before. Mr. Plummer: Page 155 under Director's Office, I assume that's yours. . Mr. Parkins: Yes, sir. Mr. Plummer: What is the $80,436, is through CETA funds? Mr. Parkins: That is correct. We have throughout the proposed department a com- bination of funding that we're using - CETA, Federal Revenue Sharing, CD and the General Fund - and we tried to build components that reflect that particular fund- ing source. Now in the Director's Office we have some support provided by CETA for an administrative aide, an account clerk and two clerical personnel I believe. Mr. Plummer: What is your salary? Mr, Parkins: My salary is about 425,000 now. M. Plummer; And your assistant? 46 EP 151977 Mt. Parkins: He makes in the neighborhood of $26,000 persently, the acting assist - Mr. Plummer: Your assistant makes more than you do? Mr. Parkins: Yes, the person who is filling, who is acting as the assistant dir- ector there is a long term employee with Public Works who had transferred into the Manager's Office and now is in this program. Mr. Grassie: You would ask about that. Mr. Plummer: You know I didn't and no one gave me any inside information or any- thing. What drew my attention to the fact was 52,000 roughly for the Director's personnel cost and I'm trying as I did -on the other one that I asked about, you know Mr. Grassie, something's wrong. Mr. Grassie: That's right. Mr. Plummer: You acknowledge the fact that something is wrong, that means you're going to write it, I'll shut up. Mr. Grassie: Well, to give you a little more background than that, Commissioner, although you know I don't think that this may be the proper form to talk about individuals, yes, historically the pay relationships have been even more out of whack than that. We did something about that within the last two months to correct most of the inequity but still some remain. I'm aware of it. You know within what is possible, you know with personnel practices and so on we're going to take care of it. Mr. Plummer: Ok, I'll take your word for it and shut up. Ok? I just want to know when you do it and what you do, I'd like to know. God, if.isn't an inequity. And I'm not saying increase his, maybe decrease the other one and I don't know who that individual is and I don't want to know. Mrs. Gordon: Question. The Child Day Care Program as I understand it is going to be enlarged, not diminished, is that correct? Mr. Parkins: That's correct. We have saved $112,000 from the funds that we had available this past fiscal year and we're currently having architects drawings prepared for the expansion of the three centers to increase the census which en- titles us to Title XX supplements. Mrs. Gordon: That's very good, but the physical plant, the enlargement of it the money. for that is coming from where? Mr. Parkins: From the Day Care Program. It's moneys that we were able to save during this past year primarily because of vacant positions that we were unable to fill. Mrs. Gordon: Are we still going to be able to give the children the kind of qual- ity care ratio that we have in the past? Mr. Parkins: •Yes, I have Miss Chandler's assurance of it. Mr. Plummer: It won't be for the lack of funding. Mr. Parkins: We're getting better, Mr. Plummer. Mrs. Gordon: In other words we're receiving a higher percentage of funds from the other sources than ever before. Mr. Parkins: That's correct. Miss Chandler has attracted an Art Therapy Grant and a number of other grants that have replaced what normally came from the Federal Revenue Sharing. Mrs. Gordon: Also you've raised the fees and that is bringing in more money. Mr, Parkins: That's correct. Mrs. Gordon: Ok, thank you. Mr. Plummer: How much are we spending this year for Child Pay Care Centers, the total figure? 47 SEP 151977 Mr* PafkihS: As I often have to do, CoMtissiofier PldMmer, when t tty to a lawaf that question With you is I have to break it down into categories. Mt. Plummer: I want the bottom line. Mr. Parkins: Including Revenue Sharing at 213,000, the fees that we anticipate collecting and the grants it would be 588,000. Mr. Plummer: $588,000? How many children? Mrs. Gordon: I don't understand your figure, Rob, does that include the money the parents are paying? Mr. Parkins: That's correct, and .... Mrs. Gordon: I don't think J. L. is asking that question, he wants the net figure. Mr. Plummer: No, I want to know the bottom line. Mrs. Gordon: You want to know the gross figure? Mr. Plummer: That's it. How much is the gross figure? Mrs. Gordon: Oh, that's unrealistic. Mr. Parkins: That's why I have a problem dealing with that. If I tell you 588,000 I am including things like a $299,000 grant that is... Excuse me, a $289,000 in other grants that are related to specific programs like an Art Therapy for pre- school children that's brand new. Mr. Plummer: Very simply, if you didn't have the day care that wouldn't be a grant would it? Mr. Parkins: That's correct. Mrs. Gordon: But we wouldn't be able to spend it, J. L., for police, fire or any- thing else because we wouldn't have it. Mr. Plummer: Rose, I'm not arguing... Mrs. Gordon: No► I know but I don't want anybody to think you don't like children because I know you do. Mr. Plummer: I'm merely trying to establish one thing - how much does Day Care cost totally, not what it costs the city or the parents or what. What is the total cost? Mr. Parkins: With your permission I'd like to provide him with a copy of a re- sponse that we made on an ATS report before that gives you item by item a break- out. I think it is important that you look at things like the Art Therapy Prog- ram. Mr. Plummer: I'd love to but right now I would like the total bottom line as to how much Day Care costs. Mr. Brassie: Rob, try and give the total program cost and the number of children in the program. Mr. Plummer: That's what I'm trying to get to. Mr. Parkins: The total program will be 588,000. Mr. Plummer: How many kids are in the program? Mr. Parkins: One hundred and fifty young people directly involved in the preschool or in the childcare program. There will be an additional fifteen in the Art Ther- apy Program. Mrs. Gordon: I need another figure from you, Rob. I want you to give me the figure excluding specifically grants specifically granted to the program for this kind of service and also excluding the fees paid by parents which, as you know, if you're going to charge them more your program'is going to cost more. Really, what the bottom line is is the net figure not the gross figure - the bottom line - net. 48 SEP 151977 . Parkins: tf t could give it to you in categories; Federal ke'V'ehue Sharihil which is our general operating expenditure-,$213,000. Participants fees 86,Oo0 and total grants 289,000. Mrs. Gordon: Those are specifically earmarked for these purposes. Mr. Parkins: That's correct, and... Mrs. Gordon: Ok. The revenue sharing portion them is the only portion theft we should be dealing with because the fees paid by parents is not a cost factor ins volved in it all nor the special grants which provide additional services. But you are talking about the 213 factor. Mr. Parkins: That's correct. Mrs. Gordon: And how many children did you say? Mr. Parkins: 150 on an average census. Mr. Plummer: So in other words, let me understand correctly. I'm not harping on the point, I'm not going to go into any long tirade I promise you. I should. The bottom line is 588,000, is the total gross cost of Day Care. Is that correct? Wait a minute, please. Mr. Parkins: As we have proposed it with the grants and the participant fees it would be 588,000. Mr. Plummer: And now would you tell me on that little magic box that you have how much it costs per child? $3,920 per - gone up! Friend, I ain't saying no more. Mayor Ferre: Well, I thought, Mr. Grassie, when we had that hearing at the audit- orium down there last year that we were going to spendthis year, going over that: and figure out ways in which we could get more kids in programs. We're not try- ing to cut down on the program we're trying to add people so that we wouldn't spend, last year it was $3,000 per child. Mr. Plummer: $2,880. Mayor Ferre: And as I recall you went into at that time a tirade Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, the cost per child is $1,420 per child. That is your cost factor. The rest of it is an income and an out -go specifically earmarked by the federal government and/or the parents of the children. Now if the parents want to pay an additional thousand dollars per child you can't count that as a cost factor. That's ridiculous. Mr. Plummer: Rose, we agree. ... The taxpayers are paying $1,400 per child but the cost to keep that child in day care programs is $3,920. That's the point I'm trying to make. Mr. Parkins: I'm going to hae to differ with you, Commissioner, because that's not correct. The Art Therapy for pre-school is $150,000 grant that I'm including in that $289,000 I'm telling you about. It is a specific grant to accomplish specific objectives with a specific group of young people. Mr. Plummer: I have no objection, but if we didn't have that program we wouldn't have that grant. Mr. Parkins: That's correct. Mr. Plummer: How about that. All I'm saying to you I'm going to say again - when Rose says, and what prompted me I wasn't even going into this today, I'm glad that I did. Ok, and I appreciate Rose bringing it up. When Rose says and makes the comment, are we going to maintain the same level of services, "Yes, but an additional cost per child of $1,100 additional costs. I have no truck with it as costing'the taxpayers. I know where the money is coming from, I know the federal grants, I know there is a state grant, I know the local grants but the bottom line says for 150 children it's costing $3,920 per child. And friend, that is totally totally out of reality. Mr. Parkins: If we followed that reasoning further then, Commissioner, you would be implying that it would reward the program or make it appear better to you if we did not go after grants and I don't think that's what you intend, sir. 49 SEP 151977 .10 M, PIUMMer: Not at all. I am saying to you, sir that when you take those moneys and the taxpayers are paying $1,400 for a per child basis I think somewhere along the line when the private schools can get equal education in pre -care for about $1,500 and we're talking about better than'double, Mr. Parkins, something is wrong, very wrong. Mr. Parkins: I have to take exception to your postion on that in that we're add= ing grants to it. Mayor Ferre: Well, my position remains the same as it always has been. I think it is a great program, I'm all for it. Mr. Plummer: Agreed. Mayor Ferre: My only concern is again the amount of money that we spend in pro- portion to the people we serve. I would have no objection if you had 500 kids. Mr. Parkins: Well, Miss Chandler just reminded me that with the expansion and the addition of this grant we'll increase to 225 which would make it $2,150. Mayor Ferre: That's my point, Rob. Mrs. Gordon: Are you dividing the 225 then into the, instead of 150? Mayor Ferre: Sure. .. Mr. Plummer: And it brings down the entire ratio. Mrs. Gordon: Well, it changes the picture quite a bit. Mr. Plummer: It definitely will. Mayor Ferre: I think it is an important service. Mr. Plummer: Let me tell you what else it's going to,do. It's -"going to offset in the fees that are paid. Mrs. Gordon: That brings it down to 946. Mr. Plummer: Great. Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, there is one other aspect in this and that is that the state sets certain standards that we have to live by and it isn't just that the City of Miami just has a Day Care Center, the Day Care Center has to have minimum requirements of pupils, student ratios and certain things and that's what forces the cost of this up so high. My concern again, Rob, is that you know the City of Miami is basically a poor city. There are a lot of poor people here and we really should be serving a great cross section of children and it just seems unfortunate to me that we can only serve 150. You know we really should be serving 2,000 kids but we can't do it. Mrs. Gordon Two hundred and twenty-five now. Mayor Ferre: And the answer to that.... Yes, but look, let me answer it this way. Let me give you an analogy. You know one of the reasons why housing is in such a mess here? Because if you saw the newspaper last week the average house that's been sold so far this year in Miami is right under $50,000 a house. Now you know how many people in this community can afford a $50,000 house? Ten per cent. That means 90% of the people of Miami cannot afford to buy a house for the going price of a house. Now, you say well what can we do about it. Well, the trouble is that we have something called building codes. Now I went with a group of businessmen from the Soviet Union in 1970 and in the year 1970, and you've heard me say this before, they built 2,200,000 living units when this country only built 1,500,000 living units. They Soviets were building two million and two. But,,in the Soviet Union lighting is a light bulb hanging from the middle of a room, you go into a bedroom and you touch both sides of the walls in a bedroom, and I literally did by maybe six inches more or less. The plumbing is all exposed. Sure, they can build 2,200,000'.living units but that's how they do it. Now if we were able to not have to live to these high standards we could serve 2,000 people with a half a million dollars. The fact is that we can't. W. Parkins: We are, in response again to last years directive in our effort to try to reduce the overall costs, the next phase for us which we think is going to be the most meaningful from the standpoint of reducing cost is an audit of each 50 S E P 1 51977 { Of the positions internally. We're trying to restructure the oi'ganiiatio± so that We have more of the less expensive people.:.' Mayor Ferre: I'd like to know someday what the medium income is of the parents of the people that we're serving. I'm sure you have that. Mr. Parkins: All right, we did... We'll be happy to ... Mrs. Gordon: I wish we could come up with a way of cutting housing ple could afford to buy a house. Mayor Ferre: Well, I wish we could do this but we can't. have regulations that force us to have minimum standards what it costs. Mrs. Gordon: That $50,000 house you just mentioned with out taxes and without insurance is almost $400 a month. Mayor Ferre: That's why only 10% of our population can afford houses. Mrs. Gordon: You can't pay, I couldn't pay $400 a month. Mr. Plummer: Well, how do you equate that, Mr. Mayor, with Charlie Crumpton's proposal of highrise low income at 59,000 per unit? Mrs. Gordon: That's subsidized, he's not talking about... Mr. Plummer: Yes, that great uncle in the sky. He's come down with his hand and wand of salvation, like federal dollars are different. costs so peo- The problem is that we and that's why it costs a $45,000 mortgate with - Mayor Ferre: Are there any other questions at this time? If not, thank you very much. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, that concludes those that you have scheduled for today. Mr. Mayor, I would like if it is in any way possible, I would like to make a mot: - ion and I realize that it is a Committee of the Whole as proposed, but the intent of my motion, Mr. Mayor, that would be that to try and alleviate a problem at our next budget hearings. I will then make my motion for you if you wish to call the commission in session in some way so that it would be appropriate, my motion is going to be very simple, sir, that there be no cuts in personnel in both police and fire, ehmen. Now, I think if this motion is the consensus of the opinion of this commission I think that we're going to completely knock down the problems that might be incurred at the Saturday hearing the 24th at the auditorium. Now I'm going to offer that motion eventually, whenever it's appropriate. Rev. Gibson: I want to tell you now I'm going for all or none. I'm going to take my gamble all or none... because I think the services of this city get to be emin- ent and if we could find money for the others we•could find money for the others. I'm willing to second the motion if you make the motion that we do not reduce the services of this city. You have my support. I want to make sure and cover all of the employees. Mr. Plummer: So there will be no misunderstanding especially between two good friends, my motion today is that there be no lay-offs in police and fire period. I am going to make that motion today with the intent, if possible, of eliminating a problem in the future. Mayor Ferre: I would rule as the chairman here that since it is an appropriate subject that I'll recognize you for the purpose of making a motion.... So that we do this.... So that we do this on a legal basis. The Committee of the Whole Hearings are now over and I will now call a Special Commission Meeting for the purposes of a motion to be made by members of the'Commission, Father, so that can open it up for you also on anything relating to the budget. NOTE: The meeting was adjourned at 2:09 o'clock P.M. ATTEST; RALPH G. ONGIE CITY CLERK MATTY HIRAI ASSISTANT CITY =AK MAURICE A FERR MAYOR 51 • SEP 151977