HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1917-02-19 Minutes1E2 ADJOURNHD MEETING OF CITY
CABPHR HEFTY ? 30 P.M.
Members present: E. G. Erfert, F.
L. T. Highleyman, C. Hefty.
DOCK AND HARBOR IMPROVEMENTS
COUNCIL FEHRUA'Ett
H. Wharton, E. L.
Brady, 0. F. riler4 L Q. 1 QnI
E
Engineer S. W. Randolph reporteed that he had tabulated the bid received on the construction
of the warehouse and that it figured a little more than 443,000. Mr. Parker, of Tampa, being
the sole bidder. That J. R. Little was the only bidder on the oonetruotion of the
warehouse floor and the only bid received on the traveling orane was from the Northern
Engineering Works. He recommended that the bids of Little for floor construction and
the Engineering Co. for furnishing the traveling crane, be rejected and the work readvertiaed;
but that the bid of E. W. Parker for warehouse oonetruotion be accepted.
Mr. Erfert: It bhae always been customary to see some plans before a contract is let, Is
there any plan oounoil oan see? I have never seen it.
Mr. Radnolph: The plan was approved over two years ago and has been on file in our office
ever since.
Mr. Erfert: I have never seen it. We want a run for our money. Two years ago we didn't know
what we would get and now we are ooming to actual figures and before we vote on anything I'
want to see that plan. The way I understand it, the way it was brought out the other night,
every truck and vehicle must drive into the warehouse to get freight. Suppose ten or twelve
come in at onoe, where is your apace for freight? It will take fifty feet for a trunk to turn.
Can they drive right through?
Mr. Randolph: Yes, sir.
Mr. Erfert: All right, suppose the first to come finds his stuff
ie also no provision for loading over a platform. You are prepar
steamer and run it through the warehouse right into oars and we
local deliveries. We should look after the home people first.
sugar or molasses it will take three or four men to load it, whi
rolled right onto a wagon. I never saw such a warehouse,- load
there are no conveniences.
right at the entrance. There
ing to take freight out of a
should prepare for
If you want a barrel of
le with a platform it oan be
freight from the gournd,
Mr. Randolph: That was brouht up when council w s on the dock site and it was decided if
there was no through traffio there would be no oars on the track mend load direct to vehicles.
Mr. Erfert: I also understand there is 410,000. for doors. How many will there be.
Mr. Randolph: Thirty two doors.
Mr. Erfert: How far apart?
Mr. R: Side by a de. •
Mr. Erfert: A oar is about 40 feet long; there is no use for more than one door to a oar.
Mr. Hefty:?I know nothing of this kind of work, but the open sides appeal to me.
Mr. Erfert: If we are going to load direct from ship to oars we don't need a warehouse.
Mr. Hefty: I agree with you about thelooal deliveries but think the doors just what we
should have.
Mr. Erfert: I can't see where a house should be all doors.
Mr. Highleyman: I was not hear last meeting but have read the papers and have always felt
somewhat along the lines of Mr. Brady,- that oonorete oonetruotion would answer our
purposes and probably be much cheaper. I also think it is not good policy for this oity tc let
a contract on one bid. It seems that is not using proper preoaution, and it seems it would
not be inadvisable to go farther and see what concrete would oost. There is no question ir my
mind but that concrete will last longer than ateel. I was on Cook's dock over here for abc.it
a year and we had constant work to keep steel from rusting and to -day it has deteriorated
very much. Concrete is substantial and I believe would be much cheaper. The action on
steel on our saltwater front is very destructive and apparent to those who have:had experienoe,-
for instance, our bridges and they are not right on saltwater. Another feature, we will get
a concrete warehouse much quicker account of the delay getting steel. I don't think one bid
should be considered at all.
Mr. Hefty: Have you ever stopped to think how small an amount of oonorete would be used?
The doors must be steel. I agree with Mr. Brady that everything possible should be made o$
concrete. I don't think much of an iron roof -
Yr. Highleyman: Galvanized iron will resist the elements for a number of years while
ordinary steel and iron beigns to rust immediately
Mr. Romfh: What roofing do you recommend Mr. Randolph?
Mr. Randolph: Barrett epeeifieation, which is built up felt, tar and gravel. I would lik3 to
ggo over this matter with Mr. H.ghleyman. I don't want anyone to think we have any axe to
rind.- we don't care what sort of a warehouse you build. We have a 58 ft span and a concrete
truss that distance is hardly practicable as it is difficult to provide for contraction
and expansion. Wooden truss is not fire proof and that brings you back to the steel truss
as the only thing possible for your roof. We also agree that practically both sides should
be all doors, rolling doors, whioh leave the only use of concrete fox,h, columns which
support the roof trusses and there will be no economy from that.40.4-414111,1411.eve you
will be any better off with oonorete columns than steel. You will find all of the beet arehouses
on saltwater fronts are of steel because the reasons I have stated govern construction. if
you follow up the general plan whioh we believe is the proper one there ie no ohanoe to use
concrete except the pillars.
Mr. Brady: I think there ie no question, if we are going to build a steel warehouse, but what
the plans before us are the beet we oan get. I have never questioned the ability or the good
intentions of the Randolph people to figure out the best thing for ua. I know I am oharg
with wanting to break away from the Randolph plan. I don't oars for 'that at all,- that orge
has no effect on me at all.
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If`you are oing to build a steel warehouse x'don t'"be3„ovoC%uf e:ati't%
that it would pay you to deviate from the Randblpb:p_1alB; we hash no be e`t. i tn.
at all but have been oontending the a oonorete building would.00et much 1eee moneir and`,;:� make ue a more durable warehouse, one that will stand the saltwatea atmoepherel. It v4e.n0vP
my intention to have these rolling doors at all. I thought we wee ' to have a 12 ..indh` 00iio:eb
wall with doors about every twenty five feet. I don't set up my judgment against the
Randolph people, but that was myld.ea of a oonorete building of he same dimeneione but,
instead of 24 feet high about 15 feet high, beoause the additional height oan not.be used
for stacking freight. Do away with the orane and have a solid doer as M. Wharton euggeatcd
the other night, about every twenty five feet. It is on that ground I contended for oonorete,
knowing that the same kind of a roof it would cost about half of a steel building. There
has never been any question in. my mind about brecd.ng away from the Randolph plan if we are
going to build a steel building. The question brought up by Mr. Erfert does not touch on
the building itself, but the necessary requirements for local business whioh have been
left out entirely by the Randolph people. They have planned and figured for through
freight whioh is a different proposition from a warehouse building entirely. If we are
not going to figure on conditions for the publio we will just talk about the bdiiding,.
and it is a matter for council to deoide whioh is the best thing to do. I don't want to
fight a proposition beeauee you think one way and I another. I am ooneeientious about a.
oonorete building and wish that plans had been gotten up and bids asked on suoh a building,
but I am only one of seven and if the majority think best to go ahead with a steel building,
all right.
Mr. Romfh: Don't jobu think it would be well to take up and investigate what they are
doing at Jaokeonville, Charleston, Savannah and other places?
Mr. Brady: Yes, sir, I think we should have an experienced riverman or boatman, a man who
has had something to do with freights and docks, to arrange for faoilities for our local
busies.
Mr. Romfh: I don't exe;otly agree that this local business is going to stay there. It
might start off that way but we are going to get away from it beoause we are not going to
have the spade. We want to operate very olosely along the lines of Jacksonville,
Savannah, Norfolk
Mx. Brady: I would like to ask Mr. Randolph if anything is provided for ships to oome up
against,- dolphine.
Mr Randolph: We have decided to put in one at the end and if necessary to put in others.
Mr. Brady: You have had authority to put in concrete; you can't build a timber dolphin
that would stand. It was tried out at Key West and there was as many as 25 and steamers
tore them all to pieces and if there is not one there the first time a steamer hits it
the Book will be torn all to pieces.
Mr. Randolph: I guarantee it wont.
Mr. Brady: Unless dolphins are put in every fifty feet the first steamer will knook it
crazy; if there is not something that will give, it will be knocked out. Possibly you
have the- experience and brains, but if you put a oonorete dolphin in at the end d the
dock to extend five feet from the corner and four feet out - beoausx every steamer that
comes in the whole power of the vessel must oome around the corner and they must back out
by hitching a stern line and pull out and you must take that up and go over it carefully.
You will find I am right if you talk to anyone who knows anything about water.
Mr. Randolph: We were going to put dolphins in there to protect the ships not the dock.
:dr. Brady: The ship will be there and your dock knocked out if one of the big steamers
come against it. I merely mention this as a fact that don't want to be overlooked. You
might build a dock 10,000 times as strong and let a steamer strike it and your dock is
bound to go somewhere, while I know dolphins will protect it. There was never a better do
built.
Mr. Randolph: You don't want to pay us 5% on dolphins. We will let you put them in.
Mr. Brady: I am telling you what is necessary to finish the Book. You will never land a
steamer there until they are put in. The only thing I suggest is that we have someone who
[is really a dockmaater to arrange these things. I know somethings but not everything by a
great deal and there are agreat many conveniences that don't oome under the Randolph plans
he was not expected to figure them out. I am not blaming you at all, you are an engineer
supposed to see that things are done right. As you said about the municipal railway, it
lwae the city's place to have it done according to your directions and it is the same with
'these things.
gr. Romfh: I think you could investigate what these other ports are doing. They must have
good reasons for doing these things. You spoke of a warehouse 12 or 14 ft. high without a
'crane. Jaoksonville, Savannah and others are building this type and I think we oan
'safely follow them, Randolph to the oontrary; but if:nthey are using the best type and •
providing these things, I think we would be foolish to disregard what other cities are
doinc. as I believe we will have nearly as much traffio as Jaoksonville.
Mr. Brady: The material does not make any difference as to the business done.
Mr. Romfh: What I had reference to was the height and doors.
,Mr. Brady: If you are not going to have platforms that you will have to let it go in with
doors.
'fir. Romfh: I don't feel like letting a contract for around $45,000. on one bid. I think we
should at least make another effort and reject this bid and readvertise to come in within
month and it should not take over a week or ten days to send up and ask for photographs.
Mr. Hefty: I think it would be well for Mr. Brady to make a.trip.up there.
1Mr. Erfert: My idea is not to change from Mr. Randolph but if we build of concrete let him
make the plans. No one is fighting the Randolph plan. The papers never do get anything rig'
Romfh: I think the engineer has made thorough investigation, We have but one bid here
and it will be about another month before we have the money in eight to go ahead and I
think we should rejeot this and ask for new bids to o•pme. ;in. after March 20 and .in the
j meantime ask Jacksonville pr investigate as to wfiat t sy arro doing On the new mun9.oiga,l
dock, also Savannah and otnera.
u n:0. it`0
Mr. Hefty: I think the dock commissioner should visit some of thes0 ports,'-:
Mr. Highleyman: I think well of that and think it would be worth the expense if Mr. Brady
can devote that much time.
Mr. Romfh: New Orleans has about the best type I believe. Jacksonville is so much mixed up in
politics it is hard to tell
Mr. Brady:rI may be wrong butit is my personal opinion. I oontend that steel will rust out and
concrete will not and will oost about one half ae much as steel. However, if Jacksonville,
Savannah, Charleston, Mobile and New Orleans are putting up steel buildings, I don'tbrant to
put my inexperienoe way down here against those people. It is not a question of oritioisir.g
the Randolph plans at all, but I am under the impreesion that concrete is the thing for us but I
may be mistaken ae well as anyone else.
Mr. Wharton: What I am interested in more than anything else is oonvenienoee for local freight.
I know personally the warehouse is not figured out for the convenience of local freight. The
warehouse is 58 feet wide with rolling doors all around and driveway trough the center,- row I
would like to know where you are going to store the freight. The entire building would not
bold one steamer load.
Mr. Romfh: What do you think of Mr. Brady making euoh a trip?
Mr. Wharton: I like that very much. He has handled as much freight as anyone in Miami and I
am willing to risk his judgment as to what we need. We must provide for handling both
through and local freight. If the fill was high enough so we could have an offeet on the
north and another on the west all around the dook, we might have room enough for the local
people but I doubt it then, with the probabilities of two or three oars along the warehouse
there would be no facilities for the local perople, and that would be the case about half
the time. You must aleo.have walls to stack freight against unfbes the warehouse is very+
wide so that freight for different people can be stacked separately. I think all these things
should be looked into and we satisfy ourselves.
Yr. Highleyman: We the `round we have down there, if we build on both sides, there will be
about 36 feet between the two warehouses and part of that taken up with railroad tracks. It
will be impossible, if two warehouses are eventually built, for two truoka to go in there
and turn arot.nd and I was thinking of making this one warehouse of euffioient width to take
care of a great deal more freight, as I can not see how it will be possible to build the
second warehouse and have a string of oars and two tracks between the two warehouses in
the 36 foot space. Some of these trucks around here are over 20 feet long and they can't get
in and out of such a apace if there is none than one. The thing to do, is to develope on
one side and build a larger warehouse or buy another piece of ground on the north for
warehouse purposes.
Mr. Randokph: I would heartily endorse the idea of Mr. Brady going north to eee the
facilities for handling freight because we beat him to it and it is on that we designed our
present plans. We believe the steel warehouse is the best and would be willing to go on
record to that effect but if you want ooncrete we will be glad tocesign it and give you
the best we have. We have been hampered right along because we have not enough room to get
in the facilities necessary.
i4r. Romfh: I think the beat thing is for Mr. Brady to make personal investigation. Norfolk
has good facilities. He ought to go
Mr. Brady: How soon will it be necessary to go?
!ter. Highleyman: I would say within the next two weeks.
Mr. Romfh: T_re is no great hurry,- the bonds will be voted on March 20 and it will
take 30 days or so for validation. You should also look into the width of these structures
I am not thinking whether it is to cost $20,000. or $40,000. but do what is right. Wo shou7,d
feel satiefied we are doing what is right and for the best.
Moved by E. C. Romfh, seconded by C. F. Filer that the bid received on warehouse construction
be rejected. Moticn oarried.
Moved by E. C. Romfh, seconded ey L. T. Highleyman, that Mr. Brady, at the oity'a expense, make
a trip to several cities and investigate their warehouses, methods of handling f.reight, the
matter of design, space required, get up all data on warehousea.to see just what we need.
The matter of ports visited to be left to the disoretion of Mr. Brady. Motion parried.
SALARY OF PLUMBING INSPECTOR
Councilman Highleyman introduced
ORDINANCE NO. 234
AN ORDINANCE FIXING THE SALARY OF THE PLUMBING
INSPECTOR
Moved by E. C. Romfh, seconded by L. T. Highleyman that ordinance No. 254 be given first
reading and read in full. Motion carried The ordinance was read in full
Moved by E. '. Romfh, seconded by C. F. Filer that ordinance No. 234 be giveneeooud reading
by title only. Motion carried. The ordinance was read by title only.,
r
BILL OF ATKINSON AND. BURDINE LEGAL SERVICES IN SUIT OF SCALES VS SCHOFIELD
The auditor reported that council had agreed to pay the legal fees of ?`r Schofield,
city dairy inspector, in case he was successful in defending the suit, and read the
motion made and carried at council meeting when the matter was first brought up.
Moved by E. C. Romfh, seconded by L. T. Highleyman, that the,bill of Atkinson arid Hurdina
for 4350. for reprsenting Br Schofield, city C.s.ary :xereete.,,be paid. Motion oarried.
Attest: City Clerk