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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMorningside Development, LLC TranscriptFile ID 05-00014 Transcript Submitted By: Appellant: Morningside Development, LLC 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING BEFORE The City of Miami Zoning Board HELD ON 12/13/04 REGARDING APPEAL BY MORNINGSIDE CIVIC ASSOCIATION ROD ALONSO, RON STEBBINS, SCOTT CRAWFORD AND ELVIS CRUZ ORIGINAL Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. LAVERNIA: Okay. Appeal by Andrew Dickman (phonetic) on behalf of the Morningside Civic Association on Rod Alonzo, Ron Steppins, Scott Crawford, and Elvis Cruz, of the Class II special permit number, 04-0191. Approval conditions by the planning director on October 27th for new construction. CHAIRWOMAN: Thank you, Mr. Lavernia. MR. LAVERNIA: In reality, just (inaudible) this is an appeal of the Class II and the director already signed her opinion, that's why Mr. Dickman is appealing. So CHAIRWOMAN: Okay. This was approved by the department, correct? MR. LAVERNIA: Yes. Class II, No. 040198. CHAIRWOMAN: Okay. Yes, sir. MR. DICKMAN: Good evening, Madam Chair, board members. My name is Andrew Dickman. My law office is located at 9111 Park Drive, in Miami Shores, Florida. I represent the Morningside Civic Association, including four individual residents in Morningside, Rod Alonzo, Ron Stebbins, Scott Crawford, and Elvis Cruz, who are the appellants. All of whom own homes and reside near the above referenced project. VeritextFlorida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We feel this building is out -of -scale and in violation of Section 1305 of the City Zoning Code. The proper scale for this location next to the single-family homes, and the Morningside Historic District should be no higher than 35 feet. On November 18th, we appealed the permit for a very -- for a very similar project, also up against the single-family homes located at Boulevard. 5lst Street and 52nd Commissioner Winton 3 of Morningside Street on Biscayne at that hearing declared, and I quote, I think and feel strongly that any development on Biscayne Boulevard, any development, from yesterday, and day before yesterday, and today, and tomorrow on any of it, has to meet our new SD-9 code, period, any of it. And so my motion is going to be to uphold the appeal and send back this -- send this back where ever it needs to go, and these projects need to be redesigned so that the project steps 25, 40--degree angle, whatever the rules are, applies to these projects. That's my motion. We need to apply the strictest standards. Unquote. The project -- the current project that we're appealing does not comply with the new SD-9 VeritextlFlorida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 zoning overlay district. The case law is clear on the applicability of the zoning in progress, and it does not indeed apply here. Please, approve our appeal. Thank you. I would like to reserve a few minutes for rebuttal, if I may. MR. LAVERNIA: Thank you. Ms. Dougherty. (Phonetic). MS. DOUGHERTY: Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of the board. Lucia Dougherty here with offices at 1221 Brickell Avenue. I am here today on behalf of the owners and the applicant. The owner of this property, Mrs. Chacone, has owned this property for over four years. She initially bought this piece of property and went to develop it, and she had a joint venture partnership with Coscan. Coscan came to the site and they proposed a 240 foot building, 24 stories, in this district, in this neighborhood. At that point, the -- Coscan said, we just want to show it to the neighbors and see what they think about it. At that point, the neighbors unanimously said, we don't want that kind of building, we don't want that tall building. In fact, that's probably what started this whole Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 impetus for the Charettes and the downsizing of buildings on Biscayne Boulevard. After that, Mrs. Chacone two years ago entered into a joint venture with my client, who is here, Ruben Matz, as well as Solomon Yuken. Those folks came immediately in with a new set of plans, hired Bernard Zyscovich and his colleague, Seria, who is here this evening. And they came in and immediately submitted a set of plans. And those set of plans for a Class II permit were submitted May 3rd, 2004, for a Class II permit. On May 10th, 2004, there was a moratorium in the SD-9 district and Biscayne Boulevard. At that point the -- the Planning Department said that our application was -- our application was incomplete. And the reason the application was supposedly incomplete is because we included a single-family lot, which even in the zoning map couldn't tell whether it was commercial or single-family. Typically, we would be able to allow be allowed to amend our application. But in this case they said you have to submit a brand new application. We appealed that decision to your board. That decision is still pending here. And Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 6 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we've continued that case -- or that decision for a very long period of time. What we -- what the client said is, don't bother with that appeal. Come back in and comply complete with the -- completely with the SD-9 ordinance. That's what this does. So we came in, we reapplied in May of 2004, with a project that completely complies with the SD--9 in terms of height, density, white plains at that particular time, FAR, etcetera. In fact, this project has 700 -- 148 thousand square feet, whereas 175 would be allowed under the ordinance. So there's 30 thousand square feet, basically, that we're not using, and approximately 30 units. So we have 165 units would be permitted. We have a 100 -- no, excuse me. 100 -- 165 are permitted; we are actually proposing 105. Parking requirements, we had excess of what is required. We have 236 parking spaces, where 222 are required. So this is a brand new application that was submitted completely compliant with the SD-9 ordinance. And it was approved on October the 27th of this year. On October the 24th the City passed a new Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ordinance that reduced the angle of sight in the rear, but it was after this Class II permit was granted. This site meets all zoning requirements at the time that it was applicable. We meet all the criteria of SD -- of the 1305.1. We even meet the 907 site plan that came into effect afterward. The client has -- has authorized Bernard to do an -- an outstanding job in terms of architecture for this site. So I would like Bernard now to come forward and -- and describe the project for you, and its context on Biscayne Boulevard. MR. ZYSCOVICH: Thank you. There's two blocks -- Bernard Zyscovich, offices 100 North Biscayne Boulevard, 27th floor. This building -- this site is really composed of two different blocks. We have two different buildings. As Lucia said, they all comply with the existing requirements at the time for SD-9. One of those aspects of the project that I would like to point out, even before we begin, is that, in this particular case, we're going to one -level underground parking. The -- the clients, one of whom is in the room have, as Lucia said, asked us to create a Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 8 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 beautiful building, create a building that really works with the street that considers architectural issues in a very positive way, and has gone the extra mile of allowing the parking to go underground; which we think is going to be terrific. That -- there -- therefore, we have been able to reduce podium heights. We have been able to get a really good looking building in terms of the way that it meets the street. The materials themselves will be combinations of glass, perforated metal railings, different types of finishes, in terms of white glass, clear glass. We have a secondary grid that will be -- CHAIRWOMAN: I think --- I think it's falling. MR. ZYSCOVICH: It's falling, yes. That - that will -- as you can see in the rendering, is a secondary element on top of the facade of the. building itself. So we'rewe're really dealing with a series of layers of architecture that go on top of the base building. I know that we're not really here to show you the architecture, we've already been approved by the Urban Development and Review Board, but I Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 9 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do want to emphasize that sometimes there are projects that are -- are really based upOn the most expedient way to get the building in. In this case, we have been encouraged to be inventive in our material selection. And T think from that perspective, our client deserves very good kudos. We wish we had more clients that cared about that. From the perspective of the landscape, and our landscape architect is here, we're -- we're dealing with the street in between the two buildings. We have all pedestrian oriented activities along the face. We're bringing people in through this closed street. The street is already closed; down or up depending which direction the ramp goes, so that we get the parking out of the way immediately. We've left the single-family lot, that was inadvertently left out of -- or not even really known, because the plat map was very unclear that this was in our one lot. void of building. And in comply with the setbacks, requesting any variances. So this is completely every other way, we the heights. We're not From the standpoint of the building's architecture, the podium will have VeritextlFlorida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 10 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a totally green -- what's that stuff called? Green? Greenwall. It's a product that is intended to grow vines on it. Do we have the rear elevation? The material board shows it, it's kind of hard to see. Basically, a wall with vines on it. It's pretty -- I'm sure you've seen them all. Thank you. And then from the aspect of what people behind would see, you can see the height of the podium is within the 40 foot that was allowed at the time. It's completely covered with vines. And we have a very dense tree planting in front of it. And then we've also gone to the effort of creating the same rhythms, syncopation, and layering on the facade of the buildings that step back from the podium So basically, everyone who has seen it has thought this -- this project was very meritovisin that it met all the requirements and more, where we intentionally tried to stay away from variances. And we have the Class II. And furthermore, in order to keep the scale down, there have been no additional requests, in fact, as Lucia said, square footage, and units VeritextlFlorida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 have not been utilized that could have been crammed onto the site. And we're going underground parking. So we're doing, basically, everything that's in our _- you know, our bag of tricks to do_ And we're very proud of the building. And what we would like for you to do is to deny the appeal, so we have a chance to make our case before the commission. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN: Thank you. MR. LAVERNIA: Madam Chair. CHAIRWOMAN: Okay. Is there anybody else who would like to speak on this item? MS. DOUGHERTY: I would just like to point out one thing, is that at the last City Commission Meeting, the chairman -- or the City Commission voted to reconsider the one that they denied before on Biscayne Boulevard. So that's the jury is out on that particular case. CHAIRWOMAN: Thank you. MR. LAVERNIA: Madam Chair? CHAIRWOMAN: Let's allow him time for rebuttal, and then we'll close it to the public, and open it up to the board members. SPEAKER: Yes, sir. Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 12 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. DICKMAN: Okay. I just want to add in reverse. First of all, the reconsideration was approved specifically in order for -- actually, as a courtesy in order for the applicant to come back with plans that fully comply with the new SD-9. And the new SD-9 includes the amendments that require 25-foot maximum height at the rear setback with a 45-degree angle. It was clear by the commission vote, and by Commissioner Winton's reconsideration that he -- he asked that this -- the other project, similar to this, not go back to them until April so that it can go completely through the entire process, back to staff, back to the -- the design review boards, everything and that it comply with the new SD-9. That's what we're asking for. Nice building. My compliments. Wrong location. This is next d.or'to a historic single-family neighborhood. If you look at the walls of this building, you're looking at, approximately, what you would be looking at if you lived next to this building. 40 feet height at the rear. It's pretty high, especially if you're -- you're right there behind it, regardless of how much landscaping you put in. VeritextlFiorida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 13 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I will just close with just simply asking that you follow what the Commission is instructing now, that all projects -- especially this one, on a very thin lot, directly next to a single --family home, be sent back until it complies with the SD-9. The new SD-9 that's adopted now. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN: Thank you. We'll now closing the meeting to the public and open it up to the board. Mr. Ganguzza. MR. GANGUZZA: Well, you know, I think that the appellant's counsel answered part of my question, but I -- you know, we see some of the projects that come in here and some of the things that people ask for, you know, you can sometimes see this board shaking their head. But here in this case, we have something that's relatively constrained, responsible, pleasing to the eye. What -- what would the appellant think would be an appropriate development for a property like this? I'm trying to really find out what -- what the real problem is. MR. DICKMAN: The answer to that question was in my opening remarks. My -- my clients are strongly in favor of something that would be in VeritextlFlorida Reporting C©.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 scale to what is there next to this property. And they're recommending nothing more than 35 feet in height. And this is 40. MR. GANGUZZA: Is that right? MR. DICKMAN: No, the entire project is ranch higher. MS. DOUGHERTY: He's asking that the entire project not be more than 35 feet. MR. GANGUZZA: 35 feet. MS. DOUGHERTY: Our podium deck is -- I mean, the pedestal still is 40 feet. MR. GANGUZZA: Right. CHAIRWOMAN: Thank you, Mr. Pina. MR. PINA: Madam Chair. Okay. And I'm seeing -- I'm seeing a height of -- at the roof level, of about 92 feet, Lucia; is that correct? MS. DOUGHERTY: Yes, sir. MR. PINA: Okay. I think the intent of the Commission and this important Biscayne Boulevard artery, is to maintain a certain character for that particular important historic artery in our city. In addition to that, we have a historic neighborhood, which is Morningside. Nor, when you say when you comply with the new SD-9, how can that be at 92 feet? Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 15 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. DOUGHERTY: SD-9 is at 95 feet. MR. PINA: It's at 95 feet. MR. DICKMAN: If I may, I think (inaudible) -- CHAIRWOMAN: No. No. No, you may not. I'm sorry. I've closed it -- unless you're asked a direct question by one of the board members, we closed the meeting only to the board. MR. DICKMAN: Only them (inaudible) -- CHAIRWOMAN: No. Excuse me. MR. PINA: My next question is, what's the total square footage of both buildings combined? MS. DOUGHERTY: Total square footage is 175,633 square feet, whereas permitted -- I'm sorry -- 148,4.48, where 175 is permitted. MR. PINA: 175 thousand square feet -- MS. DOUGHERTY: Is permitted, and we're.. providing 148 thousand. Approximately, 30 units or 30 thousand square feet less. MR. PINA: And you're telling me you comply with all the SD MS. DOUGHERTY: I comply with all of the SD-9, as -- as it was amended when we applied. R. PINA: No. No. MS. DOUGHERTY: They subsequently, after Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 16 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we got the Class II permit, changed the SD-9 again, lowering the pedestal in the rear to 25 feet. And I have to point out that none of the people who have appealed live next door to this property. MR. PINA: No, that's okay. But I mean, we're all concerned citizens. MS. DOUGHERTY: Sure. MR. PINA: And we don't have to live right next to the property. I think the intent of the City Commission is to comply, maintain the character of this -- Biscayne Boulevard artery. Why have you not complied with the new requirement? MS. DOUGHERTY: Mr. Pina -- MR. PINA: I mean -- MS. DOUGHERTY: We applied -- we applied last -- last May. MR. PINA: Right. MS. DOUGHERTY: And then we and when we complied completely when it (inaudible) took place when -- last May. We we changed the whole plan. So this is now the second time we`ve actually revised this plan. Go ahead. I'm sorry. MR. ZYSCOVICH: No. I mean, I think you Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 answered it. I mean, when you say why don't you comply, the point is we've already complied. (Talking simultaneously.) MR. ZYSCOVICH: Now they changed the law after someone's already received their approval, in the compliance of the new SD-9, this is now the new improved SD-9. SPEAKER: Right. MS. DOUGHERTY: That we already have the Class II for -- (phonetic). SPEAKER: Right. MR. ZYSCOVICH: Here's the basic difference. Let me explain to you what's -- what we're talking about; if I may -- may be so bold. What Mr. Dickman is saying is, his clients want a building that's no bigger than 35 feet high. The SD-9 that he says we should comply with that, the commissioner says we should comply with, allows a 90 foot -- 95-foot high building. Commissioner Winton is not saying that we have to be 35 feet. He's saying to the other project, not to this project, and there are some very significant differences between these two projects, that if you comply with the new SD-9, he's telling the other project, he'll approve VeritextlFlorida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 18 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them, That will still be 95 feet. The difference is on the back, instead of the garage podium being 40 feet, which used to be what was allowed, which is this project, the new SD-9 says that the garage podium can be no more than 25 feet. That is the net difference of the project, including the angle. Now, let's pretend that every project were to comply with the new SD--9, according to what Mr. Dickman just said, his clients would still appeal because the building is over 35 feet high. What they want is for everything on Biscayne Boulevard to be no more than 35-feet high. That's why we would like -- (Talking simultaneously.) CHAIRWOMAN: No. No. No. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You -- I already explained. Let me explain it to you one more time. The meeting is closed to the public. MR. DICKMAN: I'm just going to put on the record that I -- CHAIRWOMAN: If one of the board members -- I give -- you have -- you made' your presentation -- MR. DICKMAN: And -- but -- Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIRWOMAN: ---- and you did your rebuttal, if one of the board members ask you a question, then you may address the board. Otherwise, no. You're answering questions that the board has made. MR. DICKMAN: For the record ---- CHAIRWOMAN: Okay. Continue, please. MR. DICKMAN: - I'm just going to object to that mischaracterization of my (inaudible) -- (Talking simultaneously.) CHAIRWOMAN: Continue, please. MR. DICKMAN: -- of my client. MR. ZYSCOVICH: What we're saying is, in this case, that we've already gone to extreme lengths. We have a floor of underground parking, which I think we all would acknowledge is costing our developers significantly more money. We are spending money on beautiful materials. And we comply with all the rules, regulations, requirements,..a-fter redoing this project, at the time that we were getting our approval. So what we're saying is, according to the way that the law normally works, when you do your project according to the rules, and you get a Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 20 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 sign -off from the City, you should be allowed to move through your course of actions in the process, and that's all we're asking for, is for you to deny the appeal, and for us to move forward to the Commission, and then the commissioners will decide what they want to do. CHAIRWOMAN: Thank you. Does that answer your question? MR. DICKMAN: No. No. Madam Chair, I still -- (Talking simultaneously.) MR. PINA: Let me -- let me finish my train -of -thought here. I do happen to agree with you, you make an application, and you go through the -- the whole due process. You should always be entitled to what you are supposed to receive at the current time. But this particular situation, we know it's a very sensitive issue, for this particular area. And he can -- Mr. Dickman can appeal all he wants, but at a point right now where there's a certain area in the code which you're not complying with, okay, that's my concern. If you comply -- if you came here and you were compliant with the whole code, and Mr. Veritext!Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 14 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Dickman would be appealing, I would say it would be a different situation. But the fact of 'the matter is, that there was a moratorium placed on this area, that -- it's a great concern to the City, and one minor detail, which is the 25 and 45 foot, the MS. DOUGHERTY: But after the moratorium, we came in and complied completely with everything (inaudible) -- (Talking simultaneously.) MS. DOUGHERTY: -- what are we supposed to do, anticipate what they may change the code to the next day? MR. PINA: They made the change in order to address the issue of the concern. MS. DOUGHERTY: But they made the change after we got our approval. (Talking simultaneously.) MR. PINA: We're not -- we understand. But it's not a small project, Lucia, it's a big project. And therefore, the concern is magnified, because it's not a small project. You might you might be able to build 175 thousand square feet there, but it's a big project in a -- in a major corridor, in a historic area, and you're almost at VeritextlFlorida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 22 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the end of the road, you just need a small compliance, and that's the issue here at hand, in my opinion. MS. DOUGHERTY: Okay. SPEAKER: (inaudible.) CHAIRWOMAN: Yes, Mr. Williams. MR. WILLIAMS: I've got a couple of questions Okay. Maybe I could let my colleagues know some specifics. This area of Biscayne they're talking about is not historic. Biscayne SPEAKER: (Inaudible) -- MR. PINA: Excuse me. Biscayne Boulevard is not historic? MR. WILLIAMS: Not this area he's talking about. (Talking simultaneously.) CHAIRWOMAN: Well, there are -- there are some areas, and some are not. MR. PINA: No. No. I think the whole corridor is a very historic area (Talking simultaneously.) MR. PINA: It was main -- ingress/egress to the City. MR. WILLIAMS: No, sir. Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 23 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. PINA: Yes, sir. MR. WILLIAMS: No, sir. MR. PINA: Yes, sir. (Talking simultaneously.) MR. WILLIAMS: Is the whole corridor of Biscayne Boulevard historic? MR. PINA: I'm not -- I'm not saying it designated historic, but those of us who have been here for many years know that many years ago. MR. WILLIAMS: I don't know how many years it is, because I lived here 29 years now MR. PINA: (Inaudible) 50, 60 years ago. MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. But not (inaudible) -- (Talking simultaneously.) MR. PINA: (Inaudible) 50 years ago. MR. WILLIAMS: I've got a couple questions. MR. PINA: What I'm trying to say is that Biscayne Boulevard has always been part of our history. SPEAKER: Well -- MR. WILLIAMS: (Inaudible) can I make a motion? (Talking simultaneously.) SPEAKER: No. Hold on. Hold on. I got a (inaudible) - - Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 24 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIRWOMAN: Go ahead, Mr. Williams, please, finish your what you're (inaudible) -- MR. WILLIAMS: This -- let me ask you a question. Why is this place between the two buildings? MS. DOUGHERTY: Oh, it's (inaudible) -- it's a street that's closed off. MR. WILLIAMS: Excuse e? MS. DOUGHERTY: It's a -- 55th Street that is actually closed to vehicular traffic -- MR. WILLIAMS: So this building is between two streets? MS. DOUGHERTY: There's a street dividing the two buildings, yes. MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. MS. DOUGHERTY: But -- but 55th is closed to vehicular traffic, you can't drive on it. So -- MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. SPEAKER: Madam, chair. MS. DOUGHERTY: This is 55th Street here. (Talking simultaneously.) MR. WILLIAMS: Robert, is that -- does this project come in front of us before? Can you remind me, because my memory is bad. Did we see Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 25 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that project before once? MR. LAVERNIA: Not this project. Another SPEAKER: (Inaudible) remember. MR. LAVERNIA: Lucia, correct me another project in this location. (Inaudible) as far as I remember. Lucia, correct me if I am wrong. MS. DOUGHERTY: He's correct. You're correct. There was a different project. MR. WILLIAMS: Oh, that's a new one. MS. DOUGHERTY: This is a different concept (inaudible). SPEAKER: Yeah. Yeah. SPEAKER: But he designed the same property. SPEAKER: Okay. What MS. DOUGHERTY: No; it's a different property. SPEAKER: Oh, different property. MS. DOUGHERTY: A different design. Same architect. Different owner. (Talking simultaneously.) CHAIRWOMAN: We saw something similar to this. There's something similar about it, except the architect is you. Okay. Veritext/Florida Reporting Co_,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 26 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. WILLIAMS: (Inaudible) different. So you mentioned this already been approved by the City -- MS. DOUGHERTY: By the planning -- the Planning Director, as well as the Urban Development Review Board, both approved it. So this is -- his appeal of the Class II permit that the City granted us. MR. WILLIAMS: Yes; I remember Commissioner Winton like mentioned one of the meetings was mentioned about mass production, concerning about what was mentioned. Does this have anything to do with this project? MS. DOUGHERTY: No. MR. WILLIAMS: Is this -- Commissioner Winton was talking about this project specifically? MS. DOUGHERTY: No; he's never seen this project. MR. WILLIAMS: This project. But this is not in contrast what Commissioner Winton was mentioning in his meeting one -- (inaudible) like four or five months ago when he was not too happy about too much -- not to get (inaudible) -- MS. DOUGHERTY: (Inaudible) he said, don't want you to aggregate parcels together. Veritext!Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 27 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 That is not the case here. This has always been one property. MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. MS. DOUGHERTY: In other words, each side of the street has always been owned by one person. SPEAKER: That happened to be two -- MS. DOUGHERTY: So they haven't aggregated properties to make them bigger. MR. WILLIAMS: All right. Thank you. SPEAKER: Madam Chair. CHAIRWOMAN: I would like to make a real important -- just a minute -- just a real important comment. I was not at that so-called meeting, Commissioner Winton has never called me, and I don't think he's called any of the board members, or sent this -- this board a letter stating, this is what Commissioner Winton wants.. So I feel very uncomfortable having anybody quote Commissioner Winton, because he's not here. And I wasn't present at the meeting. So I -- I don't know exactly what Commissioner Winton wants. And I find it very difficult to sit up here and try to make a decision based on what Commissioner Winton wants, if he has not expressed to this board what he wants. Veritext7Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. WILLIAMS: No, Madam Chair. I happened to one night was looking at the (inaudible) and I listened, there was -- CHAIRWOMAN: But that was a coincidence -- it was not MR. WILLIAMS: Coincidence, so -- but that -- CHAIRWOMAN: So do you remember (inaudible) (Talking simultaneously.) MR. WILLIAMS: (Inaudible) Commissioner Winton had happen to the -- (inaudible) that I have. CI-IAIROWMAN: But do you remember, specifically, what project it was, and specifically what he wasteferring to -- MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. That's the previous project that -- (Talking simultaneously.) MS. DOUGHERTY: It was a Kubic project. (Phonetic). SPEAKER: Kubic project. MS. DOUGHERTY: It was the Kubic project, but he said (inaudible) I don't want anymore aggregation of parcels in order to make a more massive building. Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 29 1 2 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIRWOMAN: Robert, how many projects were approved between the first change and the second change on October 27th? MR. LAVERNIA: I cannot tell you from the top of my head how many projects. CHAIRWOMAN: And what happened with (inaudible) -- MS. DOUGHERTY: There's only been one --- (Talking simultaneously.) CHAIRWOMAN: Did Commissioner Winton have those changed or -- MR. LAVERNIA: As far as I remember, this situation, this is the only project that I remember that was approved specifically that day, and then the law was changed days after that. SPEAKER: Madam Chair. SPEAKER: Yes, sir. MR. LAVERNIA: We have other cases not on Biscayne Boulevard. We have on 37th Avenue the same situation and -- SPEAKER: You know -- MR. LAVERNIA: -- the projects that were approved prior to the law were approved. SPEAKER: Yes. ALAN SHULMAN: The rules on Biscayne Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 30 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Boulevard are -- have been a moving target. And I -- you know, I think for the -- for good reason, I think that, you know, there was a time when nobody cared about what got built around here. And now people care and people care more and more and more people are invested, and more people are coming to meetings, and all that.'s great. And 1 think that has created a situation where the rules have tightened. And then they tightened again, and they tightened more. And I think this project has caught in that sort of -- in that zone. And I think -- I mean, I personally agree with what Mr. Ganguzza said just a moment ago. I -- I -- I know what the new rules are. I think the new rules are good rules. However, I also feel that this is a very appropriate project, appropriately scaled project. And it looks like a project that has gone to great length to -- to ease its impact on its neighbors to the back by stepping away from the --- from the residential area, whichis a technique that we don't see often enough here at the Zoning Board, where buildings step away from residential. I think that -- it's great. It's -- nine stories is higher than 35, and Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 31 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -- but, you know, it's -- I --- I really feel we see projects that are much larger here and I -- I do believe that Biscayne Boulevard is a boulevard that is wide enough and trafficked enough to be able to absorb a taller height on, you know, on the boulevard. I -- I agree that it needs to step down towards the neighborhood. This project does seem -- it really seems to be a diagram of trying to really minimize its impact on the neighborhood. So -- I -- you know, I really feel that it has gone -- it's gone to great lengths to minimize its impact. I think you have a Class II Special Permit. I believe this is really an appeal. And I believe my neighbor here had a motion --- (Talking simultaneously.) MR. GANGUZZA: Well, I just have _-.I just have another comment that I wanted to make. But I'm ready to vote as well. I just -- and again, Mr. Pina, I respect your concerns about projects like this, and the sensitivity of what's doing on Biscayne Boulevard, but I don't think we can chart applicants to catch up with the law after approvals are granted. I think that that would really impose a burden on -- on anyone who wants to do any development work to come running -- Veritext/Florida Reporting CO.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 32 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 running back in here after the fact when a change occurs, and changes occur all the time. Here, I think, we're even pretty close to the -- the ordinance after the change. So if you're ready to make a motion, I'm -- (Talking simultaneously.) SPEAKER: Okay. (Inaudible) go ahead. SPEAKER: Go for it. MR. GABELA: I'm ready to make a motion of the denial. And I'll tell you why, in all fairness to you guys. SPEAKER: Fine. Thank you. MR. GABELA: You know, you can't change the rules in the middle of a game. The's number one. And then number two, even if you could change the rules, they -- they're compliant. And I think really, nothing that they would do would make you guys happy. Because what you guys are talking about is no -- no 35 feet, no development. So my motion is to deny. CHAIRWOMAN: There's a motion. Is there a second? MR. SHULMAN: I'll second it. CHAIRWOMAN: Motion is seconded. Call the roll, please. By Mr. Shulman. Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 33 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SPEAKER: (Inaudible). SPEAKER: Mr. Garbela. MR. GARBELA: Yes. SPEAKER: Mr. Shulman. MR. SHULMAN: Yeah. SPEAKER: Mr. Ganguzza. MR. GANGUZZA: Yes. SPEAKER: Mr. Garavaglia. MR. GARAVAGLIA: Yes. SPEAKER: Mr. Pina. MR. PINA: Let me just give you my -- my final thought, and what I reiterated. I'm the first one that doesn't like the rules to change -- to be changed. Okay. But in this particular case there was a moratorium for a specific purpose because there were problems. And obviously, there were going to be some applications that were going to be caught in the middle. And unfortunately, that's -- we're saying, well, the application was there, the moratorium, let's forget about this whole thing, and let's just continue based on the original application, then we're defeating the whole purpose. And that was my point. No. SPEAKER: Mr. Urquiola. VeritextlFlorida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. URQUIOLA: Yes. SPEAKER: Mr. Williams. MR. WILLIAMS: I want to tell my colleagues, there is a lot of special interest people in our community who don't want stuff to happen because of they live in the east side --- the people are going to look at their view, so you have to understand to differentiate those kind of issues to the real issue. That -- I have a business down there, and I drive everyday four or five times a day, back and forth to my office. I know the area extremely well. And I know the area, there are projects like this. This is that -- I am voting, yes. SPEAKER: Ms. Chair. CHAIRWOMAN: I'm going to vote yes as well. And -- and there is -- along the lines of what you were saying, I think if the intent of the ordinance would have been to stop a project that had already had been approved, they would have made it retroactive, and they didn't. It -- it just seems totally ridiculous that applicants come to the City, pay their fee, do everything right, and then the law changes, because what's going to happen is, we're going to Veritext!Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 35 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 get a bad name, and nobody is going to want to build in the City, because you don't knout when they're going to change the law. It ---- it just makes no sense at all. Besides, I think it's a pretty project. And it's not huge. Okay. SPEAKER: Motion passes to deny appeal, seven to one. CHAIRWOMAN: Thank you, very much. MR. SHULMAN: Two things I wanted to say. I totally agree with Mr. Pina that Biscayne Boulevard is historic. Veritext/Florida Reporting Co.,LLC Serving the State of Florida (305) 376-8800 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 36 CERTIFICATE I, JACKIE MENTECKY, do hereby certify that I was authorized to transcribe the foregoing tape recorded proceeding, and that the transcript is a true and accurate transcription of my shorthand notes taken while listening to the provided tape. Dated this 15th day of April, 2005. ACKIE MENTECKY Veritext(plorida Reporting Co.,LLC - 19 West Flagler St. - Miami, FL - (305) 376-8800 Benowitz - Berman - Cook - Florida Keys - Matz Traktman - Ivy