HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1979-02-26 MinutesCITY
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SPECIAL
COMMISSION
MINUTES
OF MEETING HELD ON FEBRUARY 26, 1979
'PREPARED BY TNT OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
CITY HALL
RALPH G. ONGIE
CITY CLERK
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
4
On the 26th day of February, 1979 , the City Commission of Miami,
Florida met at its regular meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan
American Drive, Miami, Florida in Special session.
The meeting was called to order at 1:05 O'Clock P.M. by Mayor
Maurice A. Ferre with the following members of the commission found to
be present;
ALSO PRESENT:
Commissioner Rose Gordon
Commissioner Armando Lacasa
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
Vice -Mayor J.L. Plummer
Joseph R. Grassie, City Manager
R. L. Fosmoen, Assistant City Manager
George F. Knox, City Attorney
Ralph G. Ongie, City Clerk
Matty Hirai, Assistant City Clerk
An invocation was delivered by Reverend Gibson who then led those
present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag.
A motion to waive the reading of the minutes was introduced and
seconded and was passed unanimously.
SPECIAL MEETING TO DISCUSS SIGNING OF CONTRACT WITH LARRY PERL FOR
BOAT SHOWS IN THE CITY & QUESTIONING OF CITY OFFICIALS UNDER OATH
Mayor Ferre: All right ladies and gentlemen, we are at a special
City of Miami Commission meeting, called upon in December for the
purposes of reviewing the discrepancies that may have arisen out of
the December 14 discussion of the so- called Logan /Perl disagreement
with regards to the summber boat show. The chair is open for questions,or
recommendations. If not, I will start by putting the questions to the
Manager and we'll get into the discussion from that point.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor before we begin I'd like to, since I was the
person that called for the meeting I'd like to make sure and set the
parameters and make sure everybody understands where I am going, and
what I'm all about. I want to say right off that I have no intention
nor did I call for this meeting in the hopes that I could fire the
Manager or anybody else. The reason for calling for this meeting is
in the hopes that we will begin, if no other time, now to get people
to begin to tell us the truth and to understand that the Commission
sets the policy and not the Manager nor the staff. I am fully aware
that the Manager works for us, and not his staff. I want the truth and
nothing but the truth, so help me God. With that in mind Mr. Mayor and
members of the Commission, I ask Y . Grassie to ask to be present, Mr.
Jennings, Mrs. Bush, Mr Crumpton and Mr. Stewart and I want to put all
of them under oath - -I want to put all of them under oath. I want to begin
at that point, and then after I put them under oath, I want to deal wit..
the Perl /Logan contract. I will at th.t point be willing to accept what
they tell me, whether its the truth or a lie. I want it under oath. And
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FEB 2 6 1979
I want it in the record. Now you tell me how I get that and whether or not
I have the right, since I'm the Commissioner, and my integrity is on the
line, I want them to tell me.
Mayor Ferre: Father in the past we have requested people who are testifying
on matters that are controversial to do it under oath. Its not the first
time that its happened in the City of Miami Commission. Its the first time
since back in 1969 was the last time I remember, but I've been at Commission
Meetings when a Commissioner has made that request in the past and its been
honored. I have no problem with that at all and I am sure nobody else does.
Anybody have any problem with that? So as you are requested to answer the
questions on this matter, the Clerk can put everybody under oath.
Rev. Gibson: I want to do it differently Mr. Mayor. I want to put the
four people under oath now so that they know from the word go they are
under oath. Let me proceed - -let me name them, - -Mr. Manager I want a sworn
testimony under oath from you sir. I want you to be testifying under oath.
Mr. Grassie: I'll be happy to Commissioner.
Rev. Gibson: All right. Then the 5 of you, the Manager, Mr. Grassie, Mr.
Jennings, Mrs. Bush, Mr. Crumpton Mr. Stewart, if you'll go that mike
and raise your right hand solemn swear the truth, and nothing but the
truth so help you God, at that point I'll be willing to deal.A11 right,
Mr. Clerk you usually administer the oath.
Mr. Ongie, City Clerk: Do you solemnly swean that the evidence you are
about to give in matters pending before the City Commission will be the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God.
All answered "I do ".
Rev. Gibson: All right. Beautiful. If anybody has anything he wants to
say before I proceed I an willing to start with that point. Mr. Mayor
and members of the Commission I find it increditable in a day like this
to be making policy, issuing a contract on the 14th day of December, 1978
to a man putting us, the Commission on the spot and also putting our integrity
on the line, to find out after the 14th that a contract was issued two days
prior to that. Either there was a contract or there wasn't a contract. Either
the administration didn't give a damn about us, or they suffer from
lapsus lingui. You know what that lapsus lingui is? Lapse of memory.
And if we have people working for us who suffer from lapsus lingui in
such responsible and capable positions, I hope that the Commission will
take the necessary steps to overcome that forth with. Immediately. Pronto.
Let me ask this, - -now I understand fully, Mr. Manager you work for us, okay?
Mr. Jennings, you, Mrs. Bush, Mr. Stewart and Mr. Crumpton don't work for
us. Don't work for me,- -you work for Mr. Grassie. I hope my implication and
inference is clear, understanding. Mrs. Bush, let me ask you first, - -you
take the mike. Did you know that a contract was signed with Mr. Perl for
a summer boat show prior to the 14th of December, 1978?
Ms. Bush: Sir, do you mean the long -term agreement?
Rev. Gibson: Whether it's long or short, Perl had no contract with us. We
were negotiating for a period of time. Did you know that there was a
contract signed on the 14'h on the 12th of December, 1978 with Perl
for a summer boat show. Did you?
Ms. Bush: Commissioner I don't think that I knew that it had been
definitively signed.
Rev. Gibson: Did you know it was signed? It isn't either definitively
or not. The point you sign a contract. Just sign it or you don't sign it.
Did yLu know it was signed?
Ms. Bush: We were working on a long -term contract at that time.I think
it was signed but I didn't sign it.
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FEB 2 6 1979
Rev. Gibson: Did you know it was signed?
Ms. Bush: I am not sure that I knew it definitively signed. Sir, I didn't
sign the contract.
Rev. Gibson;Did you know it was signed?
Ms. Bush: I am under oath to tell the truth and I'm trying to recall,- -
Rev. Gibson:, so help me God, you are.
Ms. Bush: I am not sure that it was signed at that time, but I think
it was.
Rev. Gibson: Did you know it was signed?
Mrs. Gordon: Ms. Bush I would just say yes or no. Yes, I knew, - -no, I
didn't know.
Ms. Bush: I think I knew it was signed. It was signed at that time.
Re Gibson: All right, Ms. Bush. Somebody take that record? You are
taking the records. Its recorded? Okay. Mr. Jennings you come forward.
Mr. Jennings you were present and you, Ms. Bush and Mr. Stewart and Mr.
Crompton were all in this meeting on December 14, 1978 at which time
we went through all this legislative process to secure that man's contract
60 days before, and 60 days after, with the definite understanding there
will not be any semblance of another boat show in any of the City facilities
w1.11, this man was doing business with us.Did you know a contract was signed?
Mr. Jtnnungs: Yes, sir, I did.
Rev. Gibson: You did?
Mr. Jennings: Yes, sir.
Rev. Gibson: I'll take care of you. You knew it was signed? Who signed
it?
Mr. Jennings:I did, sir.
Rev. Gibson: All right. Beautiful. Were you are the meeting on the 14th?
Mr. Jennings: Yes, sir, I was.
Rev. Gibson:I see. And you didn't elect to tell us that you knew it
was signed?
Mr. Jennings: No, sir I did not.
Rev. Gibson: Why didn't you? Listen to this Rose.
Mr. Jennings: It did occur to me,....as I was standing up here talking,
to say something about it. However I felt very sur. that Mr. Grassie was
also aware of it, and I felt that in most cases when Mr. Grassie and I
were in the same room discussing the same subject, Mr. Grassie is the
spokesman for the City. I felt that if he'd attached any significance
to that contract that he would have mentioned it, and therefore I did not.
Rev. Gibson: All right, sir.
Mrs. Gor.lon: May I ask him a question for clarification since someone
has take:: my attention from your testimony? Did you say that you knew
it was s:c'ned but you did not tell us because you expected Mr. Grassie
to tell us?
Mr. Jennings: Yes, ma'am, that's what I said.
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Mr. Jennings: I felt certain that he did.
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Mrs. Gordon: You told to mean, just now, that Mr. Grassie knew that it
was signed prior to the 14th?
Mayor Ferre: Did you know that for a fact?
Mr. Jennings: Let me put it this way. Naturally I've read the material .
I was not present at the meeting on 1 January. I have however read the
transcript of that.
Rev. Gibson: But you were on the 14th?
Mr. Jennings: Yes, sir, I was. Mr. Grassie said that he in his testimony,- -
not testimony but statements he made on the first, that he was aware of
the agreement but that he felt it was some kind of permit that the City
could revoke. Now, as I say, I am sure, - -well, I see you frowning,- -but
that is what I read, - -I'm just telling you what I read in the January 1st.
transcript. Now I don't know what Mr. Grassie thought that document was.
I can't answer that question. Only he can. However I felt sure at the
time I was standing up on December 14 that Mr. Grassie knew that a document
had been signed. What he thought that document was I don't know. I clearly
knew that it was a contract. I signed it. And I do sign these documents.
Mayor Ferre: During the proceedings on the 14th when this was being discussed,
did you come up and remind Mr. Grassie at any time that there was a contract
or an agreement or whatever its called,..a permit,..that he had signed?
Mr. Jennings:Not to my recollection Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: So you didn't discuss it on that occasion with him? You assumed
that this was a responsibility of his as the Manager and if anybody was to
apprise the City Commission of the fact that it was Mr. Grassie and not
yourself.
Mr. Jennings: That's the way I felt. As I say it didn't occur to me.
Mayor Ferre:But didn't take it upon yourself to remind Mr. Grassie or
discuss it with him?
Mr. Jennings: No, sir I didn't.
Rev. Gibson; Mr. Mayor let's make sure we understand now. You are dealing
with a contract, not a permit.You signed a contract. All right. Good enough.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Jennings, prior to your executing the contract, did you
discuss with Mr. Grassie the possibility of signing that contract?
Mr. Jennings: Yes, ma'am I did.
Mrs. Gordon: And there was no misunderstanding in your mind of what document
was going to be signed by you:
Mr. Jennings: No, there was never any doubt in my mind.
Mrs. Gordon: Do you think there was a doubt in Mr. Grassie's mind of what
he was committing you to sign?
Mr. Jennings: You are asking me for an opinion. I really don't know. You'll
have to ask Mr. Grassie that question really. I wouldn't want to speculate.
It could be harmful.
Mayor Ferre: Was that contract that was signed on the December 12 by you
prepared by our legal staff?
Mr. Jennings: Was it pr. by them? No, sir, they are not customarily
prepared by the legal staff. They are prepared by the manager of the
particular facility and the legal staff does review it after it is prepared.
These are standr-d contracts. YLu just fill in the blanks.
DEB 2 6 1579
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Mayor Ferre: Who were you dealing with? Were you dealing with Mr. Perl
himself?
Mr. Jennings: I wasn't dealing with him at all.
Mayor Ferre: You signed the contract?
Mr. Jennings: Mr. Perl approached the Marine Stadium Mananger. She prepared
the contract.
Mayor Ferre: I see.
Mr. Jennings: And at the time that I found out that these proceedings
were taking place, I went to Mr. Grassie and called it to his attention.
He said to me, well, I can't quote, I understand that. In general we
talked about, - -he said what are the rules and regulations and ordinances
and resolutions governing this sort of situation? I said the ordinances
and rules and regulations governing provide that a 60 day protect period
is given at the Dinner Key Auditorium only. He asked about precedents
I believe, if I'm not mistaken, and we discussed that. I called his attention
to the effect that in 1973 and '74 I think it was, there had been boat shows
at the Marine Stadium abour 40 days after Mr. Perl show, -- October show that
is, so he considered these two pieces of information and said in that event
go ahead and proceed with the contract.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Jennings what date did you sign that contract?
Mr.Jennings: What date did I sign it?
Mayor Ferre: Do you have a copy?
Mr. Jennings: Yes,I do. It's dated the 12th.
Mrs. Gordon: I didn't ask you that. I said what date did you sign that
contract?
Mr. Jennings: I signed it I believe the 13th, or perhaps the morning of
the 14th. I am not sure.
Mrs. Gordon: Thank you. Then you did not sign it the date that's on the
contract?
Mr.Jennings: No,ma'am.
Mayor Ferre: Any other questions of Mr. Jennings?
Rev. Gibson: No.
Mr. Plummer: Mr.Jennings when you say a contract was signed.Was a deposit
given?
Mr. Jennings: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: In what amount?
Mr. Jennings: Four hundred and fifty dollars.
Mr. Plummer: Thank you.
Mr. Jennings: That I'm sure is true. I can look it up.
Mrs. Gordon: Was it in a check?
Mr. Jennings: Yes.
Mrs. Gordon: What was the date on the check?
Mr. Jennings: Date of the check was the 12th.
Mrs. Gordon: It was predated to the date of the signing. When did you
er�� arm_
receive that check?
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Mr. Jennings: When did I receive it? I believe I received it on the
12th which is the day that Mr. Perl signed the contract. Mr. Perl signed
the contract on the 12th and gave us the contract and the check on the
12th. You are asking me to recall something that happened two and a half
months ago, but I believe I signed it on the 13th or the morning of the
14th. I am really not sure.
Mrs. Gordon: Was there any witnesses present?
Mr. Jennings: I am sure I didn't sign it on the 12th because on the
contract it indicates that the City insurance manager review the
insurance provisions of the contract on the 13th, and normally I am
saying under normal circumstances I would not sign it until after
he had reviewed it.
Mrs. Gordon: Were there any witnesses to your signature?
Mr. Jennings: I don't know of any. Oh, yes, there is a witness on the
contract, Betty Palms.
Mrs. Gordon: Who was present when you signed it? Was anyone present when
you signed it?
Mr. Jennings: Perhaps Betty was. She witnessed my signature.
Nrs.Gordon: But she wasn't present when she witnessed it? You don't
remember?
Mr. Jennings: I really don't. Honestly I don't. I sign so many things.
Rev. Gibson: I can understand that. That's a simple thing. That's not
important.
Mayor Ferre: Are there further questions of Mr. Jennings?
Rev. Gibson: I'd like Mr. Stewart, -- Mr.Stewart, did you know about this
contract being signed on the 12th?
Mr. Stewart: I had not knowledge whether a contract was signed prior to
the meeting of December 14th.
Rev. Gibson: You had no knowledge? You weren't aware that there was being
negotiated a contract?
Mr. Stewart: I was aware that there was a contract out, but I would have
no knowledge whether it is signed, because once if we approve it, and I
never saw this contract, it goes to the Law Department for their review.
Rev. Gibson: I see.
Mr. Stewart: So I have not way of knowing'whether they are approved or
not approved.
Rev. Gibson: All right. Mr. Crumpton?
Mrs. Gordon: At what point in time did it go to the Law Department
Mr. Stewart?
Mr. Stewart: I think it was the morning of the 13th.
Mrs. Gordon: After the applicant signed it, it went to the Law Department?
Mr. Stewart: It goes to Risk Management for review of the insurance require-
ments. From our office then it goes to the Law Department for their review
that all things are correct within that contract.
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Mrs. Gordon: Prior to Mr. Jennings signing it?
Mr. Stewart: Prior to their approval. I never saw the contract, because
I was at lunch and they called my superior Mr. Litvak, and discussed the
matter with him. So I hadn't seen this contract at all.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Knox do you recall receiving that contract?
Mr. Knox; No, ma'am, not specifically. My signature appears on it as
approving it as to form and correctness and as Mr. Stewart said I would
not have approved a contract unless Risk Management had approved it at a
prior time.
Mrs. Gordon: Somebody in your office received it and approved it after
the applicant signed it?
Mr. Knox: Yes, ma'am. The general procedure is that the applicant signs
the contract. It is then transmitted to Risk Management, and then trans-
mitted to the City Attorney's office, and then it is transmitted back to
requesting department within the City.
Mrs. Gordon: Would that document say which of your employees would have
reviewed it?
Mr. Knox: Yes it does. It bears an initial of an assistant and I myself
sign the agreement.
Mrs. Gordon: I realize that you sign a lot of things as to form and
correctness, but someone has reviewed it. And I wonder who reviewed it
and had they discussed it with you any way and when they received it was
in important factor.
Mr. Knox: It is likely based solely at this point on the fact that Mr.
Stewart executed it on the 13th. It is likely that it appeared in the City
Attorney's office on the 13th.
Mayor Ferre:You said Stewart. Jennings is the one who signed it.
Mr. Knox: Stewart signed it to insure the insurance requirements had
been met.
Mr. Stewart: I didn't because it went to your department without signature
and they clarified on the phone with Mr.Litvak.
Mayor Ferre: Let me understand this, - -just a second J.L. I want to make
sure I understand this because I am getting a little confused. These are
standard contracts that are printed up. Is that correct?
Mr. Stewart: That's correct, called 'Use of municipal facilities.'
Mayor Ferre: So in other words its a standard contract that is approved
by a legal form because its drafted by the Legal Department. So all that
you do is fill in the blanks, --
Mr. Stewart: Fill in how much money, - -the dates, etc. etc.
Mayor Ferre: How much,..the location,..the dates, what - have -you. So I would
imagine its a fairly routine type of thing as far as the legal aspects of
it are concerned.
Mr. Stewart: Yes. We get quite a few,..for every facility,..not just this one.
Mr. Plummer: Father may I stop right here? You know all of this centering
aro= a contract. Is it possible Mr. Grassie that we could have copies
of this contract. I don't think anybody has them. At least I don't. I don't
know if somebody else has them.
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FF£ 2 6 1970
Mr. Grassie: We can have some made for you Commissioner.
Mr. Plummer: If you would. Wait a minute Father, if you would. Mr.
Stewart let me just now understand once again. Normal procedure is
that a contract is signed. Then it is forwarded to your office for
a review, and if no objections or no problems are found it is then
under normal procedures forwarded to the Law Department.
Mr. Stewart: That's correct.
Mr. Plummer: All right. I'm waiting for the contract. Mr. Knox has
indicated you signed on the 13th. You are indicating you did not. Is
there a signature on the contract?
Mr. Knox: There is a notation on the contract indicating approved as to
insurance requirements and it bears a date 12/13/78.
Mr. Plummer: Is there a signature?
Mr. Stewart: No signatures on it.
Mr. Stewart: It indicates there was a phone call, because the contract got
to the Law Department prior to, for some reason going to Risk
Management.
Mr. Plummer: Is that a normal procedure?
Mr. Stewart: No it is not.
Mr. Plummer: Is this an unusual procedure?
Mr. Stewart: Every contract is sent to me first, and we review,- -
every user must indemnify the City by giving us insurance or buying what
we call special event insurance.
Mr. Plummer; I understand Mr. Stewart but the problem I am having is, is
this an unusual procedure. It's never happened in the past, - -it has happened
in the past.
Mr. Stewart: It has happened on occasion. It is not a rarity. It is beyond
the norm however.
Mr. Plummer: So in other words there is no signature. It is inc;ic ?ted,
typed in that what transpired over a telephone conversation.
Mr. Stewart: Evidently. I haven't seen the contract itself.
Mr. Plummer: Okay. Now, Mr. Knox you are stating alas€ this same line when
it hits your office it was reviewed by an associate but you actually
applied your signature. It was not don( by a facsimile stamp so you
had to sign the piece of paper.
Hr. Knox: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Let me ask one other question. When it leaves your office
normally where does it go?
Mr.Kno- In this case it would go back to Mr. Jennings' office.
Mr. Plummer; All right, thank you.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Grassie, tell me who is Betty Palm?
Mr. Grassi ^: B tty Palm is a secretary in the office.
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Mr.Grassie:
Rev. Gibson:
may not read
didn't you?
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Rev. Gibson: I'll wait for Betty Palm then.
Rev. Gibson: Sick? That's strange.
Mr. Grassie: Two and a half years.
Mr. Grassie: No.
Rev. Gibson: But you know about it?
Mr. Grassie: Yes. You told me about it.
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Rev. Gibson: Okay. Call her. Tell her to come here right now. Mr. Crumpton?
Mr. Crumpton, do you know anything about this contract?
Mr. Crumpton: Not a thing.
Rev. Gibson: You didn't know they were negotiating a contract?
Mr. Crumpton: Not a thing. No, sir I didn't there was a contract being
negotiated.
Mr. Grassie: Mr. Grimm tells me she is sick today, she is not in the
office.
Mayor Ferre: We can call her tomorrow or the day after.
Rev. Gibson; All right. I'll put her under oath tomorrow. Okay Mr. Grassie.
Yorr time. Mr. Grassie, how long have you been working for us?
Rev. Gibson: Two and half years. I would assume that you understand that
I got up out of my sickbed and pursuaded the Commission that you were the
mr^ for this job. I have reason for saying all of this. Go ahead. You
heard that I'm sure. If you didn't hear it you read it like you do every -
thin else, you rea' it in the Minutes. Isn't that right?
I don't read all the Minutes but yes,....
Yes, but you read that one. Man, you read that one. You
them all,... but that was hot and heavy. You read that
Rev. Gibson: No, no,the others told you too. You are under oath now.
You aren't just shooting off at me now. You are under oath. So you've
been with us two years, - -two and a half years. Did you know this
contract was signed Mr. Grassie?
Mr. Grassie:I had reason to believe that it was signed. By that I mean
that the contract had been in process that I was aware of for at least
a week and there was no reason why it should take that long. So I assumed
that it had been signed.
Rev. Gibson: You knew,..listen to this members of the Commission,..listen
to this public, you knew on the 14th that a contract was signed on the 12th.
Mr. Grassie: No, Commissioner, I'll repeat it again. What I said was that
I had no reason to believe that it was not signed. I had not seen the
agreement. Further than that, I had before December 14th, never even seen
a copy of the form of the agreement. I would like to repeat that again
because I think it is important. One of the things I tried to point out
when we c'iscussed this the first time, Commissioner, was that I had until
our disc,.,sion on the 14th assumes' chat the City was operating with what
I would call a use permit for fac._ities. We are now talking about a contract
and the two points I we to make for you are, 1. that I had never seen a
copy of the form used b. the City until after December 14 and really there
is no reason why I would. But further, if you read the Charter there is
reaso: to believe that nc contrac•.; can be entered into by the City unless
I sign they*. and I've nc : signed one of these things. And that's why 1
tell you that I have bee until then, until the question came up on the
FEB 2 6 1979
14th, I have been of the impression that what the City was using was
permits because the Charter specifies that we can't contract until I
sign it. And in fact I never have signed one of these things.
Rev. Gibson You signed it?
Mr. Grassie: No.
Mrs.Gordon: Mr. Grassie have you signed every single, what you call
use permit for every facility?
Mr. Grassie: That is exactly the point that I an making. I have not
signed any of them and I have never signed one of these so- called
contracts. I had never seen one until after December 14.
Rev. Gibson: I know what you are doing to me. That's one of the
advantages of going to law school, Mr. Mayor, one day. Listen to this
Mr. Grassie, you heard us raising hell up here on the 14th. I want the
Commission to listen to this. I am going to buy all Mr. Grassie said
about all the other use permits. You heard us fighting, fuming,fussine.
cussing up here on the 14th. You didn't have the decency to tell us
that the contract was already signed. Just say yes or no. Di' you tell
us that a contract was signed?
Mr. Grassie: No, I did not.
Rev. Gibson: Why?
Mr. Grassie: The reason I did not tell you that was because I have
always assumed that if you changed the rules at any one point, that we
could revoke, what I was thinking of as a permit. Now it is very important
to keep in mind that the City had, a City Commission policy, through
resolution and ordinance governing this question, and that that policy
was established. That is exactly the policy that the administration
followed in the case of this agreement with Mr. Perl. We followed the
established policy. We were in the discussion, I assumed on the 14th
that you were in fact changing the policy, at least with regard with
to this one show. And as soon as you established that new policy,my
next act was to notify Mr. Perl in writing of your new policy, and
the fact that his use of the Marine Stadium was not going to be allowed,
because you in fact had changed the policy.
Rev. Gibson: Rose do you want to ask him a question? I want to do
something that they don't expect me to do.
Mrs. Gordon: Is Mr. Jennings here? Mr. Jennings, a question only to you.
You proceeded with what you felt you needed to do. Were you instructed
to sign that agreement?
Mr. Jennings: Yes, ma'am. As I related when I was up here before, Mr.
Grassie and I discussed the fact that Mr. Perl had made this application
and the rules and regulations governing the matter, and I was told to
proceed with the contract which to me meant prepare it and execute it.
Mrs. Gordon: When were you told to do that? What was the last time that
you recall speaking to Mr. Grassie when he told you to proceed? Did you
speak to him after Mr. Perl signed his end of the agreement?
Mr. Jennings: After Mr. Perl signed it? You mean, was when this
conversation took place?
Mrs. Gordon: I don't care which conversation.Well, you had any instructions
to sign the agreement after Mr. Perl signed his end of it?
Mr. Jennings: Possibly.
Mrs. Gordon: Yes or o.
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Mr. Jennings: Well, again, you are asking me to make a recollection
of something two and half months ago that could injure Mr. Grassie
or myself.
Mrs. Gordon: Are you here to tell us the truth or to protect yourself
or Mr. Grassie?
Mr. Jennings: I am here to try to tell you the truth, and I'm trying to
tell it, but I don't want to guess at things either.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, I'd like you to sit down and think a little while
and then come back and answer my questions.
Mayor Ferre: All right. Is there anything else?
Rev. Gibson: No, no, I want to wait for that answer. How much time do
you need Mr. Jennings?
Mr.Jennings: Just a couple of things.
Rev. Gibson: All right, we'll give you 10 minutes. All right, I want to
make sure the Commission hears this. I promised myself and God that I
will not lie and I will not steal. All of my dealings have been on
I- trust - you,you- trust -me. I find it hard to deal with people if I ever
lose trust and confidence in them. Maybe people didn't know that about
me before now. I think I'd better put it on the record once and for all.
I want to call to the Commission's attention 3 incidents that even if I
were blind, even if I were deaf, or even if I were a damn fool I couldn't
let escape me, - -May 17, 1977, S.E.A. had a hearing before the State of
Florida Commission. How many of you remember that? I did not show up that
morning. I didn't even tell my assistant. I went over to the State Building
and when I got there everybody came near having a hemorrhage. The Commission
wrote a letter by the Mayor of the City, Maurice Ferre and it was dated
the 17th day of May, 1977 written to William E. Powers Jr. General Counsel
and Gene L. Johnson, Hearing Officer, Florida Public Employee Relations
Commission. This document said to the State people at that time, that
we would recognize the S.E.A. people as bargaining unit. Do you remember
that? I couldn't find, counsel maybe you could find that for me, I couldn't
find Mr. Grassie's letter which was contrary to the one we sent. Thank God
I was there. I got copies of Mr. Grassie's letter and a copy of ours, and
what was very significant, - -very, very, significant, - -I want to deal with
S.E.A. as I started. The Mayor wrote a letter in this regard telling what
our position was. Mr. Grassie had a different position. Mr. Grassie submitted
his position in the record, he and the rest of the members of the staff.
Fortunately I was there. I heard, - -I came back and reported to this Com-
mission that what we said,or what we say, evidently didn't make any dif-
ference. Mr. Grassie felt his position or his situation was more important
than ours. I warned the Commission then, and I am warning the Commission
now, October 7, 1977, Minutes would reveal that the team from F.I.U.
reported back to us that what we were told by the staff was not all
truth. How many of you remember that? Plummer you ought to remember because
you were on that Committee. You were chairman, and very significantly,
while the debate went on for weeks, it was I who asked if there was any
objection that we would get a neutral team, and then we then employed
F.I.U. which team went,investigated and the Minutes of the October 7, 1977
will show to you, that that team came back, reported that the money was
there. That's whc we were fighting Witt the police and fire group, and
said that the money was there, and then if you read the Minutes closely
we got some of the same jockeying then as we are getting now on this
contract. Its all I want to point out now. The third thing is this
contract we have here. You know there's an awful difference between
a contract and a permit. Lot of difference. If we were dealing for a five
year period, or a three year period with certain rights delineated,- -
what I want to point out to this Commission is either we are go, L; to
be in the position of the elected officials to set the policy, or we
are not going to be in that position. Ignorance to the law is no excuse.
Mr. Grassie is a smart damn man. Smart, capL—e, intelligent, alert, right.
And I want to serve notice, - -I don't knov where you all are, this is my
last time tolerating that kind of dealing. That's all I wanted to do,
FEA -.
pronounce it openly and publicly. I'm going to forgive you for the three
times that it has happened. Mr. Jennings, I understand, you work for
Mr. Grassie and you'd better not say contrary to what, - -you know, I
understand. I am an Episcopalian. We organized a system. I wouldn't
dare undercut my Bishop man . I understand that. I am serving notice
right now. Three times have gone by,severe, serious, made me as
a public official look bad, and as a fool, as if I didn't know what
I was doing nor what I was saying. Staff didn't care, -- didn't tell me,
didn't call it to my attention, wasn't concerned about saving me, - -just
so they are saved. Mr. Grassie, you and I are friends. I am that black
guy who got up out of his sickbed to prevail upon this Commission to
hire you instead of the others because you knew Spanish damn well and
the others didn't. and that couldn't tell white America you didn't
understand the Latins and that you couldn't tell the Latins you didn't
understand them. I serve notice on you right now, if it ever happens
again, you know from the word go where I am.
Mrs. Gordon: I want to get some more answers, because I don't think
this was an exercise here for verbalizing on the qualifications of anyone
It was to get to the heart of whatever it is that took place in December,
and there are some unanswered questions in my mind and I cannot say
forgive and forget, perhaps that's exactly what we are going to do
eventually, but I think before we forgive and forget we've got to
find out what all the facts are and then decide. I want to know who
is Carol J. Morrell? Is she any employee of the City?
Mr. Grassie: I have no idea Commissioner. Possibly Mr. Jennings does.
Mrs. Gordon: The name is on the contract as secretary.
Mayor Ferre:I saw that name too, and as I recall and I'm opening it up.
She is a secretary attesting to the user's signature, Larry Perl, President,
Exposition Corporation of America,- -Carol J. Morell.
Mrs. Gordon: I have a copy of the contract. I want to know whether or not
she was an employee of the City and whether she coudl answer some questions.
I am not interested particularly in when Mr. Peri signed. I am much more
interested in when Mr. Jennings signed this contract or agreement whichever
way you want to call it. I note also there are no witnesses on this agreement
and I asked Mr. Knox the validity of, - -I'm not a lawyer, the contract with
no witnesses to the user as the agreement's wording reads,..
Mr. Knox: When agreements are entered into with individuals who do not
have a corporate structure, then that individuals signature has to be
witnessed by two people. When the user organization is a corporation,
the signature can be attested by the secretary of that corporation.
Mrs. Gordon: Then that's why there are no witnesses on the agreement?
Mr. Knox: Yes, ma'am.
Mrs. Gordon;I feel, - -I'll finish up in just one second Mr Mayor, that it
to me is important that two things are still not clear that need to be
cleared before I could feel comfortable with setting this issue aside.
One is, why is that the Clerk did not receive a copy of this agreement
until a long time after the December date in question? I would like to
ask the Clerk when the contract was delivered to his office.
Mr. Ongie: I am having a member of my staff check that Commissioner.
We do stamp it on the front when it is received by our for filing.
We're the last one to receive it.
Mrs. Gordon: When is an important factor. And second I would like to have
Betty Palm, - -is here name Palm?
Mr. Grassie: Betty Am.
Mrs. Gordon: I would like her testimony as to when she saw Mr. Jennings
sign thi; document. Si' e Mr. Jennings is having tro:,ble with his memor
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12
FEB 2 6 1979
I thought perhaps he might need some help in that regard. So that
the absolute fact and when this matter is put to rest, that nobody
will go away from here with any doubt as to anyone's integrity. And
that is more important to all of us, who are going to be working in
this City government because trust, confidence, -- that's the name of
the game. There is nothing else. If you can't have trust, confidence and
belief in the people you have to work with, -- Father Gibson said it before,
I'm sure he means it. He's ready to forgive and forget. Perhaps I will too.
But I want to have Ms. Palm answer that question. Now since she's ill, not
here today, I would like her to testify to a prepared set of questions
that the Clerk will ask of her after he swears her in, if that's agreeable
with the rest of this Commission.
Mr. Lacasa: I would like to say something. In relation to what Commissioner
Gibson mentioned, the fact, Commissioner, that Mr. Grassie speaks Spanish
doesn't mean that he understands the Latins. And I have only been for one
month on this Commission and I have already experienced, and I want this
for the record, the nature of the complaints that some of these Commissioners
have about Mr. Grassie's peculiar disregard for the Commission. So I want
to have very clear, that as far as I'm concerned in the one short month
that's I've been here, I already have evidence of Mr. Grassie's particular
way to deal with the members of this Commission.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Jennings does Ms. Palm work for you or some other
department of the City government?
Mr. Jennings: She works as a clerk in the City Manager's office.
Mrs. Gordon: Was she present when you signed it, now that you've had time
to think.
Mr. Jennings; I honestly don't remember.
Mrs. Gordon: Where were you when you signed it?
Mr. Jennings: I don't remember that either. I am not trying to be evasive.
I honestly don't remember. I'm sorry. I wish I could,..I wish I could
remember.
Mrs. Gordon: You do remember the date you signed it though. You remember
that it was the 14th or the 13th.
Mr. Jennings: I said it probably was the 13th or the morning of the 14th.
Yes.
Mrs. Gordon: Why are you so sure it was the morning of the 14th?
Mr.Jennings: Well I'm not. It doesn't seem reasonable I would have signed
it after the meeting however, and the meeting was on the 14th. I'm sure
that I didn't. Let's put it this way. I will say for the record and under-
standing I am under oath, I did not sign it after the meeting. And I realize
I am under oath. I know that, - -I'm sure of that.
Mrs. Gordon: Then when you want to clarify it as you are clarifying it now,
would you say that you did not sign it after this item came up on the agenda?
Mr. Jennings: Yes, ma'ar.;. That's right. That's what I meant. I'm sorry.
Mrs. Gordon: Well say it. Repeat it.
Mr. Jenni - I did not sign that agreement after this item came up on
the agenda.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Jennin I'm through, but I'll tell you, I hope the public
heard what you said, and I hope the public heard what Mr. Grassie said. No
way in the world could my staff see me get .. get out on a limb like you
sa'• Gra::,ie get out on a limb and not tell him, - -no way in the world if I
we.L Grassie, and you didn't tell r , I world be comfor :able tonight when
I sleep. Elizabeth Virrick t me sometning. I didn't want to preach
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13
PEB 2 6 197g
but I guess I got to get it in ever so often. Man, when you all pull up
that cover, I trust it'll be cool tonight, when you pull up that cover
over your head, and only you and God are between that mattress and that
cover,,.you're going to have some hard times.
Mrs. Gordon: There's just one item to be cleared and that's when the
Clerk got the contract.
Mayor Ferre: All right, now, Rose you are going to submit the questions
to the Clerk's office for Mrs. Betty Palm, to under oath answer in writing.
Is that correct?
Mrs. Gordon: The Clerk can take it on tape.
Mayor Ferre: You want to submit those questions into the record now?
Mrs. Gordon: Yes, as soon as the Clerk brings me the information that
he is going to bring me, I'll have the questions.
Mayor Ferre: Well, in the meantime, while that is happening Mr. Grassie,
is thew anything you want to add to any of this at this point?
Mr. Grassie: I don't believe so Mayor. I think just the two principal
points that I felt needed to be made have been made.
Maycr Ferre: We'll wait for the Clerk to return. Do you want to take
a 5 minute break in the meantime? All right, we'll take a 5 minute break.
Do want to turn those lights off?
NOIL: The Commission reconvened with all members present after
a 5- minute recess.
Mayor Ferre: All right, we are back in session now, and Mr. Clerk, Mrs.
Gordon has asked a question. You wer trying to get the information.Would
you tell the Commission now?
Mr. Ongie: Yes, sir, in response to Commissioner Gordon's question, we have
researched our file. This particular agreement that is before the City
Commission was never officially transmitted to the City Clerk's office.
We have an electric time stamp that everything that comes in, even if it
is junk mail, is time stamped on the cover. This does not show any such
time stamp.
Mayor Ferre: All right, any further questions?
Mrs. Gordon: There's two questions I have prepared for the Clerk to ask Mrs.
Palm, and he'll read them to you.
Mr. Ongie: Yes, to read Commissioner Gordon's questions into the record, is
'When did you sign the agreement, the date and the time, question X12, 'Who
asked you to witness the agreement ?'
Mayor Ferre: Okay, you'll have her sign that under oath? Anything else?
Mrs. Gordon: Just one question and its a question for you Mr. Grassie. Since
things are going the way they are, we want you to answer this question, not
in a roundat lt way but a straightforward manner please. And that is, why did
you let us e._rcise our vocal cords on the 14th, setting this policy when you
already had knowledge that you in fact had instructed Mr. Jennings to proceed
to get this contract or agreement r; fc completion.Why didn't you say to
us, Commissioners I want you to know ,..at I have instructed Mr. Jennings and
he ma :. have signed it. Mr. Jennings then could have responded yes or no, I
did or I didn't sign. it. Why didn't you open up with us?
Mr. Grassie: CommiF ner that is he point I hp a tried to cover with you
a couple of times.
Mrs. Gordon: Yes, but you never said it in a stra` ^htfc and way.
14
a •
Mr.Grassie: What you were talking about on December 14, was a new policy, and
having established that new policy, different than anything you've had before,
my action was to enforce the new policy. That's what we proceeded to do
immediately.
Mrs. Gordon: But that doesn't say what I am trying to tell you. I am trying
to ask you to be straightforward and frank with us. You know setting a new
policy which could be in conflict regardless what you call it, -- agreement
or permit - -or anything else appears to me to be trying to say okay, you are
right and we are wrong and everybody is condemning you unnecessarily. I say
that you are our manager and you are supposed to keep us informed on every
issue to the fullest and in my opinion you do not and did not, and particular-
ly in this case.
Mr. Grassie: Maybe I was being too careful to not interfere with the
process that you were engaged in. But very frankly I didn't want to give
the impression that I was telling you that you had no choice.
Mrs. Gordon: That choice was ours to make, after you revealed to us whatever
pertinent information related to the situation. Then we had a choice whether
we -r- going to make a fool of ourselves as we did, proceeding to set a policy
that was contrary to what had already been established by you apparently
in the signing or instruction to your employee to sign that agreement.
Mayo! Ferre: Mr. Grassie, there is a morning newspaper in this town who
crick_ in a while editorializes in both the front page and throughout the
newrT^per, and sometimes in the editorial pages, and makes statements
soretimes that reach out pretty far and then after a lot of discussion on
—rt of some people of this community with the editor in charge of the
paper, and when they are shown that they once in a while do make a mistake
of o;:isslon and nothing else, they have a tendency then to say - -and this is an
admission on their part, this is the most I have ever seen that newspsper
do.There is always two sides to the issue, and that is kind of like their way
of saying well, perhaps you might be right, and let's go on to something else.
Don't you think that you might be able to say that there are always two sides
to the issue, and don't you think that you can always do a little bit better?
And that very well known editor of that very well known morning newspaper in
saving that perhaps it would have been better, now that we see what happens,
that if we had been fully informed, perhaps we could have deliberated on the
discussion ?It always is nice to deliberate on issues when you have full inform-
ation.
Mr. Grassie: Mayor, in retrospect, I :pink we can all agree on that.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you sir. I have nothing else. Anything else on this matter?
If not,...I'll tell you, there is one other thing. Dan Paul came up to me
a second ago and said: "You know what: You better ask your City Attorney
to clarify the legal aspects of this because there is some question." Mr.
Knox, let me turn to you,perhaps Mr. Paul might want to comment later on.
There is some question as to the legalities of our making restrictive cov-
enants at any of the City facilities. Now, what is all that about?
Mr. Knox: Mr. Mayor, this question has recently arisen by virtue of a very
recent Supreme Court opinion regarding liability.
Mayor Ferre: Supreme Court of Florida or Supreme Court of the United States?
Mr. Knox: Supreme Court of the United States,..regarding the liability of
municipalities for anti -trust violations that came up in the context of
whether or not municipalities who own utilities could prevent private
companies from operating utilities within the municipality, so that there
is perhaps scree parallel consideration. We have not studied that case from
that point of view at this point, nd of course we will review it in terms
of whe.ner we can have a city -wide policy with regard to protect period.
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15
FEB 2 6 1979
Mayor Ferre: Well this is in reference to, and I don't mean to personalize
this deferral to Logan or anybody else, but let's say somebody who had
an exclusive to play a baseball game or something like that, if somebody
else wants to come along and wants to play a baseball game and the dates
are available at the stadium they have the right to hire the stadium and
play the baseball game.
Mr. Knox: That's the question, and it could have at this point far - reaching
ramifications, as for example whether not another professional football
team could play a game while the Dolphins are out -of -town, and if the
contract with the Dolphins is so exclusive that they have that kind of
protection, or whether we would be guilty of some antitrust violation if
we allowed them that protection.
Mayor Ferre: So in other words if another football team wanted to play a
game in the Orange Bowl when the Orange Bowl was available, we could in
fact contract with that other professional football team no matter what
the agreement with the Dolphins says.
Mr. Knox: We would have to examine the Supreme Court opinion and see if
it reaches that far. At this point it only dealt with municipally owned
utilities.
Mayor Ferre: I think then Mr. Knox we need to get an opinion from you
as to vis -a -vis the Supreme Court ruling that you just mentioned. What
is the City's posture in all these things in the future, - -or present?
Mr. Logan you want to add something to it?
Mr. Victor Logan: I wanted ask one question since you brought up the
legality of the contract which has me very perplexed. It was a question
brought to mind by Mr. Grassie a few moments ago, and I have just spoken
to Mr. Knox about it, and I think the Commission would be very interested
in hearing his answer to the question. Mr. Grassie pointed out that he
was under the impression that a permit was being enter into. He further
said that the Charter said the City Manager must sign all contracts.
He had never signed this. I asked Mr. Knox about it. Mr. Knox said
that the Charter said something to the effect that the City Manager
must sign al_ contracts unless he delegates the responsibility to someone
else. Mr. Grassie has stipulated that the delegated what he thought was
a permission to sign a permit, not a contract, at in effect did not give
permission to Mr. Jennings or anyone else to or for a contract
to be entered into. Also it says that it must be ratified by the City
Manager and it has not been ratified by the City Manager up until now.
Mr. Knox is prepared I understand to answer the question, and my question
is in fact either a permit or contract that Mr. Perl was given is causing
me quite a lot of problem right now, -- legal.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Knox?
Mr. Knox: The City Manager is the only person in the City who is authorized
to enter into contracts on behalf of the City. The C.ty Manager may delegate
the duty of executing contracts and there is an underlying presumption that
if a contract is executed by someone other than the City Manager that the
City Manager ratifies those actions. Now as to this particular situation,
historically to the best of my knowledge since being involved with the
City since 1973, these kinds of contracts, - -that is, agreements for thcuse of
municipal facilities, to include the Bayfront Park Auditorium, the Marine
Stadium, Baseball Stadiur ^nd the Orange Bowl Stadium,- -have been executed
by the Directors of those appro; .te facilities, simply perhaps be use of
the volurP of p••'er work associate with having the Manager persona.._y execute
all of ti.use agreements. And again, there is a legal presumption that if someone
is delegated a duty and they carry out that duty it is with the concurrence
and ratification of the pc' n ultimately responsibly_.
16
FEs 2 8 1979
Mr. Logan: Am I mistaken, Mr. Ferre and Mr. Commissioners,
that of the testimony here today Mr. Grassie has continued to say that
he delegated the responsibility of what he thought was to sign a permit,
hasn't that been his point all day,and haven't you people all day said
it doesn't make a difference but I contend to you sir, and ma'am, that
it does make a difference, and except that he gave no permission to Mr
Jennings to enter into a contract, and sir I am suffering great fi'.ancial
losses right now because of the so- called legality of this question, and
1 challenge it. Respectfully.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Logan are you going to proceed with your boat show as
I understand it?
Mr. Logan: Mr. Ferre, I am attempting to but due to the conflict and
due to the allowing of Mr. Perl, to have a permit or contract,
I have had four calls in the last 10 days from people who took space
from me,asking to cancel because Mr. Perl is doing a situation in the
Marine Stadium that is definitely competing with mine.
Mayor Ferre: I sympathize with your problem. I am in a quandry as to what
we can do at this point legally. I have not choice, - -I can't ask your
attorney or Dan Paul,- -I've got to rely on Knox's opinion on this. Where
are we Mr. Knox?
Mr. Knox: As I indicated before Mayor Ferre, and members of the Commission,
and at this point, it appears that there is a binding agreement which has
been entered into with Mr. Larry Perl for the use of the Marine Stadium
on those days that he requested. This contract was executed by the City
of Miami, and there are not impediments as to its form.
Mayor Ferre: All right, anything else on this matter?
NOTE: The Special Meeting concluded at 2:25 o'clock P.M.
ATTEST: RALPH G. ONGIE,City Clerk
MATTY HIRAI, Assistant City Clerk
17
MAURICE A FERRE
MAYOR
(ttti rat
FEB 2 6 1979