HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1979-05-24 MinutesCOMMISSION
MINUT.ES
(REGULAR)
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK';
CITY HALL
RALPH G. ONGIE `
CITY CLERK
Iwa
MAY 24 , 1979 (REGULAR)
SUBJECT
tN INACE OR
OLUTION O.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
CONFIRM ACTION'OF CITY. MANAGER••::.IN.:,,.,HIRING..::FIRM OF
HERITAGE MANAGEMENT SERVICES, ,, .INC.a; FOR REVIEW OF
EA
- - • ' SF BETWEEN CITY AND.. DEVELOPER,: FOR OPERATION
o
,-"HLOTEL - & PORTIONS OF. CONFERENCE -REPRT- ON
•:•.--.1MIAMI CONFERENCE . CENTER PROJECT
,: ..,-•,..,..., .,..:,,.., ,
--::::••--_--• _. AUTHORIZE AGREEMENT WITH MIAM.,.....I3 SUMMER, BOAT .•i- 14SHNi0W-.,•Fic011 yi:i.i.',..
USE', OF COCONUT. -.'. GROVE , EXHIAIT I PN-,..CENTER.•;..&:, - DR ,„..
• . --:, MARINA (TEMP. DEFERRAL, SEE...:-•- LATER,:.RES077:IOM:„-,
"7"(,.
PRESENTATION .:,' OF.'-,--:R4zqmBNTPLAQUE
..1 .,.
' '-'' •"BOB" . '',' NORRIS:, •:•• ..--. ,.,.,. ,... .. ,., ,, , OF ..I.1 R .- -,i,ROB E RT
"
PERSONAL; APPEARANCE
TO HEALTH OF MR.
--.
....,..,. SYSTEMS
AGENCY
GE09!ziC.:.•-.R..,‘Ecp .,.,AR i N c,
C
APPOINTMENTSCO,HP ir•••:•:,1E
T
"ECONOMIC ALTERNATIVES 1..,:' IN . -,T8E:::CAR, TBBAN,
- - ' ONFERENCE*T1,1•;THE :'.,,•.TA.4;1-.. OF.,... 19.1979'•,: (TEMP. • DEFERRAL).:
• CONTINUATION:'•::,.....HERITAPE.:. MANAGEMENT-i;- SERVICES,•.!-•-'INc .-.•1-!'77, ::,.,,.:-,.•..-t
' • • ',•: '''''-' MIAMI. coil T.Ep,I. e4-;,:c!7Ek i.pa..T.,.,EcT ..i,,H.,..,..i..•:.•„:•, ..,...•• ... , ,, , ., , , :
--..REPEAL ,:',-- ORDINANCE .- 694.5. •, .7. -: CIVIL SERVICE..:RULEs, st
.,,
REGULATIONB--.. AND SUBSTITUTE-''. THEREFOR A , . NEW CODE 0i,',',,,,,:.:
•'''. ': ', CIVIL SERVICE ,::- RULES & REGULATIONS.
•-''','..l-ALLOCATE j--•.-1.5PZTO,..•: $ 15 , 000. O0 ,•:,T(/::',COHOST...1.!..!..ECONOMIC.J.,:-:;:::•..*,,',.';'::;:•,--•,,,:-•:.,
' - •' -.•--ALTERNATIVES •-•::IN.. THE --'.- CARIB. B B AN "!..:.. -, CONFERENCE E IN THE
Ftill4'.':oT:.:•'•1S79-,....'•,•:':,•••--:,..:•.„
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R-79-381
DISCUSSION
PRESENTATION
DISCUSSION
. .
• - ,
DISCUSSION
FIRST READINC
R-79-399
AY 2 4 1979
1-2
2-4
4-5
5-6
6-12
12-24
24-67
67-68
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF THE
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
* ** *
* * * *
ON THE 24TH DAY OF MAY, 1979, THE CITY, COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
MET AT ITS REGULAR MEETING PLACE IN THE CITY SALL, 3500 PAN AMERICAN
DRIVE, MIAMI, FLORIDA IN REGULAR SESSION.
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT.1:20::O'CLOCK P. M. BY VICE -MAYOR
J. L. PLUMMER, JR. WITH THE FOLLOWING MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION FOUND
TO BE PRESENT:
ALSO PRESENT:
Commissioner Rose Gordon
Commissioner Armando Lacasa
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson
Vice -Mayor J. L. Plummer, Jr
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre*
Joseph R. Grassie, City Manager
R. L. Fosmoen, Assistant City Manager.
George F. Knox, City Attorney.
(Absent) Ralph G. Ongie, City Clerk
Matty Hirai, Assistant City Clerk
An invocation was delivered by Reverend Gibson who
present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag.
Mr.Plummer:` Mr. Manager,
Mr. Grassie: Sir?
Mr. Grassie: The first item on the agenda Mr. Vice -Mayor is Presentations and
then led those
Proclamations.
what can we do?
Mr. Plummer: We don't have them ready. The next item?
Mr.'Grassie: Well, I think Item 111 is one that you would not want to consider
yet. I believe that you could take Item #2 if you wish.
1. CONFIRM ACTION OF CITY MANAGER IN HIRING FIRM OF HERITAGE
MANAGEMENT SERVICES, INC. FOR REVIEW OF LEASE BETWEEN CITY
AND DEVELOPER FOP. OPERATION OF HOTEL & PORTIONS OF CONFERENCE
CENTER - REPORT Or M'_IAMI CONFERENCE CENTER PROJECT.
Mr. Plummer: Anyone wishing to discuss Item #2? Moved by Father Gibson,
seconded by Lacasa, any further discussion, call the roll on Item #2.
ON ROLL CALL:
Mr. Plummer: Give Mrs. Gordon the opportunity to vote.
Ms. Hirai: Mrs. Gordon, they are voting on Item 2.
mr..Plummer: With the full understanding that any items since it is scheduled
for 2 o'clock, if anyone wishes to bring it back up they may after 2 o'clock
Rose, this is in reference to the study of question that was raised by Dan
Paul about the. Miami Convention Center.
Mrs. Gordon: J. L., I just'got to sit down and take my stuff out.
I will vote on it as soon as... finish your vote.
IAAY 2 4 1si•
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Gibson
its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 79-381
A RESOLUTION APPROVING, CONFIRMING AND
RATIFYING THE CITY MANAGER'S ACTION IN
HIRING THE FIRM OF HERMITAGE MANAGEMENT
SERVICES, INC. TO REVIEW THE PROPOSED
LEASE BETWEEN THE CITY OF MIAMI AND THE
DEVELOPER FOR THE OPERATION OF THE HOTEL
AND PORTIONS OF THE CITY OF MIAMI/UNIVERSITY
OF MIAMI JAMES L. KNIGHT INTERNATIONAL CENTER
TO SEE THAT THE CITY'S INTERESTS ARE PROTEC-
TED DURING THE LENGTH OF THE LEASE; FURTHER
DESIGNATING SAID CENTER FUNDS AS THE SOURCE
OF PAYMENT FOR SAID REVIEW.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here
in the Office of the City Clerk).
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Lacasa, the resolution
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Rose Gordon
Commissioner Armando Lacasa
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor J. L. Plummer, Jr.'
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
who moved
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Mayor Ferre.
on file
2. AUTHORIZE AGREEMENT WITH MIAMI SUMMER BOAT SHOW FOR USE OF
COCONUT GROVE EXHIBITION CENTER & DINNER KEY MARINA - (TEMP.
DEFERRAL, SEE LATER RESO. 79-394).
Mr. Plummer:
Item 3? Is Mr. Logan present? Is Mr. Logan present?
Rev. Gibson: J. L., I see where he... from the memorandum anyway he indicated
that he was going to use another place other than Pier 5 I think. Evidently,
that satisfys him...
Mr. Plummer:
Mr. Grassie:
at 5 o'clock
Rev .Gibson:
Mr. Manager?
I understand that Mr. Logan did sign the" :agreement' last night`
and myimpression is that "yes" he is satisfied
go ahead and; if he...
Mr. Plummer: Well,what are a you asking us to do today? Are you asking
ratify the agreement or is it just on for informational •
purposes?
Well, let's.. whydon't we
Mr. Grassie: No, this agreement
to sign the agreement.
would have to be...
would have to
us to
be authorized
Mr. Plummer: And you are indicating for the record that he has in fact shown
approval of this by his initialing every page, isthat correct?
Rev. Gibson: Well, why don't we wait.
Mr. Plummer: Is` that correct?
Mr. Grassie:. That he has initialed all,of the changes, "yes" and he is in
agreementwith them. Now,'I-should alsoindicate to you that he may want to
MAY 2 4 fg?g
gi
111
come up on a personal appearance and ask for something else, but I believe
that everything that is in the, agreement he has agreed to.
Mr. Plummer: Ok. Father?
Rev. Gibson: I` suggest that we wait.
Mrs.`Gordon: Ism going to read this carefully. I've just been
I hadn't seen until this minute.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Jaffer do you wish to speak, sir?
Yes, 1 just want to put on the record I have talked to a lot o
Mr. Jaffer:
people...
Mr. Plummer: For the record your name and mailing address.
handed something
Mr. Jaffer: Joel Jaffer, 3268 Mary Street. L have talked to a lot of people
who live in Dinner Key and in boats in the area and this past week they have
been harassed by members of the Miami Police Department, taken down to the
Metro Justice Building and then have their case dismissed. But thay have been
harassed and they aren't pleased with this agreement as it stands now and,I
just one to place this on the record.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Jaffer, do you have
Mr. Jaffer: Well, I could...
Mr. Plummer:
...you going on hear sa
Mr. Jaffer:. I'm going on hear say.
drop them by your office.`
proof of<this harassment, sir? Are.
can get the docket numbers for you. and
Mr. Plummer: Well, I assume by the people themselves not being here, that
you are not representing ,thein.? Is that correct? Strictly on hear say that
Mr. Jaffer: I preface my' remarks by saying that I have talked to thesepeople
and that 1 think it should be brought to your attention if there is some amount
of truth in it, diet this has been going on out there.
Mr. Plummer: Alright, thank you, sir. Mt. Manager, you will take
comments. Anyone else wishing`; to discussion Item #3?
Mrs. Gordon:
Mr. Plummer: Rose?
Mrs. Gordon: Since it includes a portion which relates to the wet slips and
since I have nothing before me that indicates to me that the people affected
have agreed to move voluntarily, I cannot cast an affirmative vote for an
entire contract encompassing that clause. I don't want to vote negatively
on the entire contract either, so if I could be provided with that written
information I would then be able to vote affirmatively.
note :of .the
J. L.?
Mr. Plummer: I will not speak for the Administration, but it is my understanding
Rose that they have negotiated a deal for slips only against the bulkhead. No...
Mrs. Gordon: I need to know that the people involved are not...
Mr. Plummer: Well, Rose what I was going to say is noone lives at the bulkhea
just boats.
Mrs. Gordon: All I can say is I want something in writing.,
Mr. Grassie: We are still following Commissioner Plummer the basic direction
of the City Commission which is that we will try to accomplish the reinoval of
boats, but we will not fors - anybody -- move unless there
for them to move into.
MAY 2 4 19/9
•
Mr. Plummer Like space.
Mr. Grassie:
Mr. Plummer:
Should we hold this Mr. Manager until 2 O'clock?
Mr. Grassie: I think whether you' Vote on it ornot is entirelyuP:to.You
but I do think that Mr. Logan will want to be ,heard at 2 O'clock.
Mr. Plummer: So, why vote on it until he is heard? Alright, now Mrs..Gordon
has asked for something in writing which will give you thirty-five minutes
may be to produce something in writing. Mrs. Gordon, would you please explain
to the Administration what you want in writing so hopefully by the .time Mr.
Logan appears, they can furnish you with such?
Mrs. Gordon: Yes, I want t
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Jennings.
you what she wants.
Mrs. Gordon: I- want to be assured that those persons affected by the occupancy
of the wetslips, the ones that are going to be utilized, by the show, that the
people in each of those areas have agreed that they haven't been forced to.
move.
Mr. Grassie: That =: our understanding of your intent
that we are taking to our tenants.
Mrs. Gordon:
(THE
Yes, well, all I want is something
Mayor Ferre: Well, where are we now?,
and that's the ,approach
o confirm that in writing..
Mr. Plummer: Well, they are trying to find out what Rose wants and they will
have thirty-five minutes to put it together. And really we are... we have done
#2, 1 think your office has indicated they want to go back to the presentations
right`. now. They have one to Bob Norris.
Mayor Ferre: How many? Huh?
Mr. Plummer: Bob Norris.
3. PRESENTATION OF RETIREMENT PLAQUE OF ?R. ROBERT "DOB" :;ORRIS.
Mayor Ferre: Bob Norris, will you step forward please. Is Bob Norris here?
Mr. Plummer: He is on his way.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, he is coming on.
PRESENTATIONS
Presentation of a Retirement Plaque to. Mr. Robert "Bob" Norris, City
Clerk's Office in recognition of 17years of loyal, dedicated and
outstanding service as a City of Miami employee.
MAY 2 4 19I9
t
Hayor Ferre: Is there anything else that we want to do at this point?
Mr. Plummer: I don't, just go into Item 1.
(BACKGROUND COMMENTS OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
4. PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF MR. GEORGE RICE REGARDING APPOINTMENTS
TO HEALTH SYSTEMS AGENCY.
Mrs. Gordon: Oh, oh, Maurice, you have another item. Maurice, the appointments
to the Board of the Medical Facilities that was created.
Mayor Ferre:
Alright. Oh, yes. I would have to look at that list again.
Mrs. Gordon: I would have to look at it
to us. Mr. George Rice is here from the
per the request for a person of color.
Mayor Ferre: And Mr. Rice, we also besides getting additional Blacks
need to get names of more women.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, there are only...
•
Mayor Ferre: There are plenty of Latins in the list,
fifteen. Latins.
too, may be our offices can bring it
HSA with an additional nominee as
we also
there is about ten or
Mrs. Gordon: Yes. They are furnishing just what they feel is a good solid
list and you don't need to use them or you can use them, but atleast it
furnishes you with a choice.
Mr. Rice: The Health Systems Agency went through a process on these and we
made a group prccess with a nominating Committee and we have made the five
recommendations to you, not expecting that you would take them all, but that
there would be other people who would submit some. These names are Mr. James
L. Davis, Dr. Maria Hernandez, Juan Tarajano, Mr. Goldrich and Mr. T. Willard
Fair. Those are the five names that we have suggested and I will be glad to
talk a little bit about them if you would like. And why we feel they are
important.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, I think that would be very worthwhile as long as we kept
it fairly short.
Mr.
Mayor Ferre: I mean, you know, five or ten minutes and not a half an hour
Mr. Rice: Sure, right. Mr. Davis as you know is the owner of several dairies
as a businessman and was originally a part owner of the Miami Dolpins. He is
active in the Florida Chamber of Commerce and is well aware of financial
concerns. He has agreed to serve. Marie Hernandez is a Doctor of Pharmacy
and she is currently the Public Relations Director of the Chase Federal Savings
and Loan Association and did practice in Cuba and knows the health area very
well and she has agreed to serve. She has worked on several Health Systems
Agency Committees. Juan Tarajano has his Doctorate of Law from Havana University
and his Master of Social Work from Barry College. He is employed with District
11, Department of Health and Rehabilitative Services, he advises the Administrator
there Max Rothman on health matters. During his graduate work he did serve with
the Health Systems Agency and it's predecessor, the Health Planning Council
of South Florida as an intern for about a year and he has agreed. Mr. William
Goldrich is a partner in charge of Touche Ross and Company, he is a CPA of
over twenty-five years activity. He was a former member of the Health Systems
Agency in Bergen County in New Jersey before he came here and is
very knowledgeable about this kind of thing, in terms of the health field. We
do think too, that T. Willard Fair who has been the Executive Director ofthe
gl
05
MAY 2 4 19/9
Urban League in Miami since 1963 who has a Master Degree from Atlanta
University, is a Vice -President of the.Chamher of Commerce... Greater Miami
Chamber of Commerce and has been very active in civic. and professional affairs
here in the community for a very long time and we submit these' for your..
consideration along with others.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, Mr. Rice, thank you, very much for your presence here
and your recommendations and I'm sure that all of us will take your recommendations
very seriously. Now, out of courtesy for Mr. Rosenburg who is not.here He.
ask that we not vote on this until he had the opportunity Rose,... Rose,,,
Mrs. Gordon: I'm listening.
Mayor Ferre: Yes. Don Rosenburg asked that he wanted to
briefly on it, so we wait until...
Mrs. Gordon:
Mayor Ferre: Yes, he is on his way. He didn't know whether it was 1 or 2
and I guess my office told him at 2. So we will take it up as soon as Rosenburg
gets here.
Mr.
Rice: We wish you well and thank you, for your consideration.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you, for you presence and your recommendations..
Mrs. Gordon:
Mayor Ferre: We are getting it Rose, I asked them to get us copies`of all the
names and as soon as we have that and Rosenburg is here we will take it up.
Mrs. Gordon: Ok.
5. CO -HOST "ECONOMIC ALTERNATIVES IN THE CARIBBEAN" CONFERENCE IN
THE FALL OF 1979 (TEMP. DEFERRAL).
Mayor Ferre: Now, you have before you a memorandum which was sent to you
previously which deals with the Council of the Americas and if I could just
have your attention for a moment Armando, I want to explain this to you.
The State of Florida has put two Caribbean Conferences on, one was in Tampa
and the other one was in Miami. Now, the last one we had in Miami the President
of the Dominican Republic and the President of Costa Rica were the guest speakers
and it of course, got tremendous publicity all over the United States and Latin
America. A year and a half has gone by and the State wanted to put on another
such event. What happened unfortunately was that the State Department were not
overly impressed with what the State was talking about and so on one of my
visits to Washington and the State Department I talked to Assistant Secretary.
Vakey and to Phillis Oakley and they said what you ought to do is you
ought to go to the people that are the most knowledgeable on Caribbean and
Latin American affairs which is the Council of the Americas and see what they
are doing. And so Father I; went up and I met with those fellows and the guy
who is in Washington for the Council of the Americas is Otto Wright.. Do.:you
remember him? He use to work in the City of Miami. I forget where he had worked,
do you remember? Who did Otto Wright work for when he was here? '.
Mr. Plummer: He worked under Mel
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. s Plummer:
Reese
according
Mayor Ferre: No, Otto Wright. Didhe, work when You were. here. He had left
nk el
e
him in
then he
e
by then..AnywaylheMis thesguyrthattruns was,theiraoperationin niwith
Paul. ' Washington, it's;.a
• w
81
06
MAY 2 4 1979
very large organization and you can see from their letter that what they have
said is if you help us financially in Florida, we will move the Council of the
Americas meeting for the Caribbean from Washington which is where everybody
wanted to have it to Miami. Now, in addition to the Council of the Americas,
this thing is being sponsored by an organization called the American Enterprise
Institute. And for those of you that are knowledgeable in Washington things
there are two big institutes in this Country that deal with "think tank
problems". One of them is called the Brookings Institute and the other one
is called the American Enterprise Institute. Now, the American Enterprise
Institute is a very prestigious outfit, so when you get AEI and the Council of
the Americas together what that means is that we end up with a very high level
conference. In addition, there is a possibility that one of the Presidents of
one of the very large Latin Countries might come up as the main speaker and
from the English speaking Caribbean, so that we would have both Spanish and
English speaking, two Presidents at that conference. Now, the question
of course, is how do we approach it? They want the City of Miami to be a
host City and Mr. Grassie, I don't think there is any problem with that.
Mr. Grassie: No, on the contrary we already have staff working Mr. Mayor -to
try and accomplish a source for the funding and so on.
Mayor Ferre: The second thing is that since the conference would help Miami'
enhance it's growing reputation as an Interamerican Center for commerce,
economic and cultural activities the City will allocate a minimum of twenty-five
thousand to the event which is obviously where the problem is going to be. And
three, that additional Administrative support be provided as co-sponsors are...
as needed for purposes of this conference. Now, what I would like to
recommend Rose and Father, is that I don't think that we can under the
constraints of our budget assume a responsibility... I don't think we can
assume a responsibility of twenty-five thousand dollars. I would like to
recommend that we approach it this way, that we do assume the responsibility
of ten thousand, that we get ten thousand from the State and five thousand
from Metro and that we all be co-sponsors because I don't think we can do it
any other way. I don't see that the... the City is going to benefit by it,
but I don't think that we should assume the full burden on. Now, that's what
I would like to recommend to the...
Mrs. Gordon: What about a recommendation from the management relating to that
subject?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, Mr. Grassie? Fosmoen is the man who has been working on
this, so I don't know.
Mrs. Gordon: Yes, but Grassie is the one...
Mr. Grassie: In terms of the value of the event I think it is very much in
keeping with the City Commission's Policy in terms of promoting trade with
Latin America and promoting Miami as a Center of Commerce. The possibility
of finding the source of funds is always the difficulty, but it's something
that I think that is very much worth working for in terms of the basic economy
of this City.
Mrs. Gordon: Noting your comments of Monday when you stated on the Goombay
Festival issue that the Fire Department was being told not to purchase certain
equipment, in light of your own comments are you recommending that we approve
this expenditure?
Mr. Grassie: You haven't as yet Commissioner taken a position with regard to
sponsorship of the event. It is the kind of event which falls into the
policy and the practice of this City in trying to sponsor an expanded trade
position for Miami.
Mrs. Gordon: That's not my question.
Mr. Grassie: Now, whether or not 1„t is a good investment is the judgement
that has to be made. Every expenditure that we make has to be judged in
terms of what it pays to the City.
Mrs. Gordon: Are you recommending it, yes or no?
• ,
Mayor Ferre: You see, her question is if the City of Miami Commission takes
policy in favor of this, are you recommending it? Now, that's a valid question.
07
MAY 2 4 1979
Mrs.., Gordon:
Mr. Grassie:.
it would be a
Mrs. Gordon:
re you telling us "yes, do it"?
T think that: in compari•son"to other investments that we can
good one.•
ou double talker.
Mr. Grassie; Well,.
Mrs. Gordon:
Mayor? Ferre;
Mrs. Gordon:
t s" ; or is i
have; already told. .you Commissioner.;"
o, it 'isn't, it's; double talk.
o,no, he...:'that's not double talk Rose,.he said,
make
our recommendation?
Yes it is, hecan say "yes"
it's a simple
word;
Mayor Ferro: He said in view of the benefits that we gatherfrom it,.
like a worthwhile expenditure. Isn't that what you said?,'
Mr. Grassie:
Exactly.
Mrs. Gordon; Well, why can't M
like "yes" or "no".
Mr.
Grassie:
t seems
. Grassie resort to two orthree letter words
guess.I don't thinkin two or three letter words Commissioner`
Mrs. Gordton: Welli; t would.he1p a lot if•....,of.people uw"o 'read the minut,es, h
of this meeting trying to ,determinewhat side you ae on'because you knowyou ."
ay two hings on one-hand..andonthe other:I. wantyo'.tosay "yes" or '"no". -
: Yes, we should. spendthismoney, for this:expenditure or no" we shouldnot. Mr. Grassie: •I, have the impression that most'.of.the things that"you have
brought up -you had.no doubt as; to where I.stand on.
Mrs.
Gordon: Oh, boy!
Mayor Ferre:
Mrs. Gordon: No, you don't have to answer for the Manager and
Manager to answer me in a "yes" or a "no".
Well,, the answer i
s" let's! not get an
Mayor Ferre
. Manager, you have a request, from
I require the
a member of the Commission.
Mr. Grassie: .I'take it Commissioner that, that is a request?
Mrs. Gordon: That is a, request.
Mr. Grassie:. Thank you. As I said trying to explain before my meaning so
that you would understand that nothing is absolute there are conditions to it,.
but the basic answer is "yes". Now,you have to understand
Mayor Ferre: Alright,
Mrs. Gordon: The answer is
Mr: Grassie: Now, you have to understand that -'within the'context of b
"our udget...
Mrs. Gordon: The answer is "yes", that's all.' We don't need any further
explanation because Mr. Grassie we take the heat, not you whenever the public
comes after us for spending money, ok. The other day.you.made a very specific
point about the Goombay Festival which we, you know, were very much concerned
about providing this kind of a festival for a particular... the benefits that
would accrue to this community from having that festival and you have made
a very specific point of telling us that the Fire Department would not be
able to purchase certain kinds of equipment and lead us and the people who
read the minutes of this meeting to believe that we consider festivals more
important than fire equipment. Now, if you know, that's you attitude then you have
to reiterate your attitude and if it isn't then don't make it your attitude just
on specific promotional items.
Mayor Ferre: I thought all you wanted was a "yes" or a
answer.'
gl
MAY 2 it 'yiy
Mrs. Gordon: Well, now the records clearly state that the answer to the
question is, the Manager recommends this promotion being more important than
the fire equipment, ok.
Mayor Ferre: No, I think what the Manager... the way I understood it is that
he said if you take it in contextof what we-...
Mrs. Gordon: I agree with him.
Mayor Ferre:..let me finish- of what we get for Calle Ocho, for the Film Festival,
for the Goombay, for the fair that we just had. What the name of it? The
Folk Festival, that the mileage that you get by sponsoring an AEI and a
Council of the Americas function is front page stuff in the New York Times and the
Washington Post. If you want to play major leagues in this thing these are
the type of things we've got to do. Now, my personal opinion is that in the
context of that and of the Trade Fair of the Americas, that this type of a
thing puts us in a major league base. Now, if we want to play major league
this is how we play it. If we don't want to play major league, then we go back
to the bush leagues and we can be bush leaguers.
Mrs. Gordon: Maurice, I am not arguing against the item. I am simply trying""
to make the records reflect that this Commission is concerned with the economic
benefits that accrue from different kinds of investments that we make and thats
simply all I'm trying to make the records reflect. And that the Manager do not`'
you know, place us in the position of being, let's say careless in our decision
making process.
Mayor Ferre: Rose, I understand. I understand and I think you are right and
I'm sorry members of the Commission that this comes out at this particularly
unfortunate time, it's not the best timing in the world to bring this subject
up, but on the other hand I think we owe the people in Washington, including
the State Department the courtesy of an answer.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I want to make this comment. When the Goombay Festival
was held I want.you.to know that I didn't argue about the money. I heard what
Mr. Grassie said and I let that slide. That was kind of rough my:brother, you
got a page and a`half in the New York Times.;
Mayor Ferre: That' right.
Rev. Gibson: ... on the Goombay Festival.
Mrs. Gordon: Right.
Rev. Gibson: You have no assurance you are going. to even make front page
this.
Mayor Ferre:
That's true.
Rev. Gibson: And you know, you can only argue about... you can't contradict
that page and a half in the New York Times on the Goombay Festival because you
already got it, you got it for free. And yet and yet... and not only that,
we had budgeted fifteen thousand dollars. I had to eat crow, I had to eat
crow Mr. Grassie. We had budgeted fifteen thousand dollars, I told the people,
I lead them to believe and I want you to know that I never said a word. I
just want you next time, sir not to let your memory get as short as my hair.
You know what I mean?
Mr. Grassie: I will certainly try to keep my memory longer than your hair;.
Commissioner.
Rev. Gibson: Please, because man they ate me up after I' left here, they ate
me up:
Mayor Ferre: Alright, what's the will...
Mr. Grassie: Well, you know, I think
towards trying to make the right kind
do think also that the representation
extremely inaccurate. And think it's
difference if we evaluate the benefit
gl
that all of this discussion is aimed
of decisions for the community. But I
Commissioner Gordon of my feelings is
only fair to say that it does make a
that the City gets out of something like
Ay 2 4 197
Atilt log 61A"'
the Trade Fair of the Americas where you may spend two hundred thousand dollars
as against the benefits that you get out of the International Folk Festival
for example, where we may spend thirty thousand dollars, although we spend a
lot less money it does make a difference in terms of the basic economy of this
community where we are going and how much benefit you get out of it, Now,
that's a judgement that we have to make and you have to make it a policy level.
Mayor Ferro: Alright, thank you, very much Mr. Grassie. What's the will of this
Commission?
Mr. Grassie: Yes, you know, that's fine Mayor,
cutting me off,...
Mrs.Gordon: Yes
Mr. Grassie: but the point is that Commissioner Gordon is making the point
that I'm inconsistent in making recommendations to you. And. what I'm trying to
say is that... and :that '-s.why :I used more than two words to give you an answer
is thatyou do have toput these things. in context.
Mrs. Gordon:: Yes, I'm not complaining about your using more than two words,
but when I ask for a final, determination between "yes" and "no"'I'don'e;want
sixty-eight words to tell me what "yes" or ,"no" is,'I just need the one or the
other. And that's all I'm asking you for, I'm not trying to embarrass:you
or in anyway cause you any concerns, butin the future if I ask you.`for;"yes" or.
"no" just be kind enough to tell me "yes" or "no".
Mr. Grassie:
Mrs.
must` have misunderstood your intentions Commissioner.
Gordon: Ok..
Mayor Ferre:. Alright, let's not get into intentions and all that because we
wilt be here all day. And I think it's a very simple question, do we, want,. to
sponsor a Caribbean Conference in Miami under the auspices of the State.Depart-
went,.the Council for the Ainericas, the Committee for the Caribbean and the,
AEI along with the State and the County and it's just that simple?
Mr. Plummer: At a cost
not to exceed ten thousand dollars.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, let... I tell you what, I think may be we ought to make that
fifteen J. L. just in case... I don't want anybody you know, killing this thing
on... and if we are going to be the main.' sponsors, I think we are going to
have to take the main burden. So let's try to get ten thousand... here is
what I would like to do, I would like to ask the County and the State to share
equally on the twenty-five thousand, but in case they don't I would rather,
and we don't have time to fall back positions because they have got to have a
"yes" or "no" answer. And so -what I would like to do is say that we would come.
up with fifteen thousand dollars andhopefully the County and the State will
come up with the balance. I'm going to approach it that we each share it
equally, one third, one third, one third.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, :I just want to make sure I understand.
County says to you what the County said, to the Goombay Festival?
Then we have a dead deal.
Mayor Ferre:
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Grassie, did you hear what the Mayor said.
Mr.
Grassier I heard it.
Suppose
the
Rev. Gibson: You heard him? Letme make sure for the, `record' that : if the County
says to us what it said to the Goombay Festival, we have a d-e-a-d "dead deal".
(BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Rev. Gibson: No, no, no, no, you see, Mr. Mayor I want to make sure Mr. Grassie
•
understands because what Mrs. Gordon is saying is what_I -think Mr. Grassie
needs .to understand, that you know, we won't: just go ahead. You understand?
Mayor Ferre:
Rev. Gibson: Alright, ok, I'm ready to vote.
We all 'understand that.
gl
10
MAY 2 4 197a
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Grassie:
Mayor Ferre:
Rev. Gibson:
man you know
that's where
Mr. Plummer: Simply Mr. Grassie, what he is saying is that you understanding...
if you don't understand the deal is dead, you are. I can't be any simpler than
that. ;;..
Mr. Grassie, that's very clear isn't it?
It was clear the first.time Mr. Mayor.
Alright, sir
No, I'm not so sure. I don't want to be badgering you today. but
what, you're no dummy. You know, you gotthe greatest capacity,
you and:I differ, you got the greatest capacity of...
Mayor Ferre
Mr.
Mayor Ferre:
Alright;...
That's yourbusiness Commissioner, you should know about that.
Conflict, I can't vote.
Mr. Lacasa:' I'm going to move, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, is there a second..
Mr. Plummer: Read the motion.
Mayor Ferre: The motion is that the City of Miami Commission go on record in
answer to the Council of the Americas letter of April 25th before you, that
we will be the Host City and the sponsor for the Conference of the Caribbean
and that we request that the County and the State be co -participants on an
equal share basis with us. And that we will allocated up to fifteen thousand
dollars provided however, that the County and the State also participate financially
in the project. Ok? Is there a second?
Mr. Plummer: I will second it.
Mayor Ferre: Further
discussion,
call -the roll.
THEREUPON THE FOREGOING MOTION (later formalized into
Resolution No. 79-399) was introduced by Commissioner
Lacasa and seconded by Commissioner Plummer, and adopted
by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Rose Gordon
Commissioner Armando Lacasa
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
MAY 2 4 1979
FURTHER DISCUSSION:
Mayor Ferre: Now, Mr. Grassie, would you then call or Mr, Fosmoenor. whoever:
is going to do it, call both the County:Manager and Pete-- what's his name?--
r.``Fosmoen Genaro.
Mayor Ferre: ..,.Genaro. And I actually think we should call up to Tallahassee
and get" the.Secretary of Commerce Sid Lavin and inform him of what the posture
of th`e City is and that we want them to be co and equal participants in this,
but"if they don't want to be then, that this thing is dead. They have to come
up"with some money and support. We expect for them to come up with equal support.
Alright? It's almost 2 O':clock, is it alright if we begin a little bit ahead
of time?
Mrs. Gordon: Sure, why not.
Mayor Ferre:
Anybody have any of objections to that? Alright, Mr. Krause?
6. CONTINUATION - HERITAGE MANAGEMENT SERVICES, INC. - MIAMSI CONFERENCE
CENTER PROJECT.
Mr. Plummer: Well, wait a minute. Mr. Mayor, the #2 Item, the man is sitting
here, it's already been passed and I think he ought to be told so that Mr. Connolly
can go back and go to work.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, I beg your pardon,
have the report? Alright, would you
report?
would you step forward Mr. Connolly? Do you
introducethe matter and give us a quick
Mr. Plummer: You mean the finalized report?
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Mr. Connolly: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, at the
meeting..
P,ayor Ferre: " Excuse `me, 'Jim."., J.L., because I" seethe look on your face.
'.an Paul came down with this gentleman from Cleveland...
Mr. Plummer: Fine.
last
Mayor Ferre: . and we had a`meeting " and,at:. that.meeting.because.of
nthe :time:
costraints"upon"us I...:they wrote a memorandum and .I said "takeiit to,;each
member of the. Commission, inform them of 'it and get • their"signatures on it".
Now, they came tome', I read it arid:- I signed it and as I"understand it, -they
went to,speak-`to every member:of the Commission." Is that. correct?
To hire.
Mr. Plummer: To hiring, ';that's all. Now, you..•my problem is Mr.
man is'now coming back... may I see a copy of ,that _ _ - Connolly?
Mayor", Ferre: Because of the time constraints that's why;I wanted.`to make sure
that the majority of the Commission agreed to this so that it could be done.
didn't a member of the Administration visit each one you?
Mrs. Gordon:'
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Plummer:
No, me.
Rose, you weren't contacted?
He told me about hiring the man.
Mayor Ferre: Were you contacted Father Gibson?
Rev.
Gibson:
this
MAY 2 4 1979
gl'
•
Mr. Plummer: The only contact that I had was from Mr. Grimm. Mr. Grimm asked
me did I...
Mr. Plummer: ...have any problem, that this man was chosen, he said he felt
comfortable with his background and did I have any objection to man being hired
and I' said -"no".But you know, I wanted some input into thing as to what this
man is going to study and now I'm being handed a final report.
Mayor Ferre: Here is the way the memorandum read "During the Commission Meeting
of April 30th Mr. Dan Paul appeared raising several questions regarding the
legal provisions as well as the business provisions of the lease between the
City of Miami and the Developer of the Conference Center. Since the meeting
members of the City's staff have met with Mr. Paul, the developer's Attorney and
your Bond Counsel we are convinced at this time that we will be able to resolve
the legal questions raised- in other words, raised by Mr. Paul. During the
discussion Mr. Paul suggested that the City hire an expert in hotel and conference
center operations to review the provisions of the lease. As a result of Mr.
Paul's suggestion a meeting was held in the Mayor's Office and Mr, Paul introduced
Mr. William J. Burns as an expert in hotel and conference center. The purpose
of this memorandum is to proceed now- this is dated May 14th- to hire the firm
of Heritage Management Services, Inc., William J. Burns as President of Cleveland
for an amount not to exceed ten thousand plus expense. A written report will
be presented for your review on the May 24th meeting, a resolution ratifyingthis
action will also be on the May 24th meeting." Now, the resolution specifically
outlines what he is to do and as I recall it is contained in a letter by Mr.
Burns of May 15th and it says as follows "We are working with the City on a
... hold on. Where is the outline of what the questions were Mr.
Grimm?
Mr. Grimm: Mr. Burns wrote back and said that;; he. would be available to present
to the Commission the report at this meeting".and that was his response to my
telephone conversation. Now, it I did not portray that to the Commission I'm
sorry, it was in the letter. There was no choice.but, Commissioner' Plummer, I.
haven't seen the report either.
Mr. Plummer: Vince, the point I'm.making is :when you called me and asked me
did I have any objections to the hiring of this individual and you told-me,his
background and I said "no" I had,no._.objections,'go aheadand proceed. But it
was not my understanding that this Commission would not have the right of'input
of what we wanted this man to`cover
Mr. Grimm: Well, you
denied...
Mr.
still have that right Commissioner, you are not being
Mr. Grimm: But that'shis. report. I` mean,if you don't like what he says, that's
your prerogative. I` mean, but...
Mayor Ferre: Well, J. L. we are going to. you know... look, the point simply
is this, this was at the initiation of Dan Paul. Now, some people have asked
me who the heck is Dan Paul to set these kind of questions before the Commission.
Well, Dan Paul, I think is a citizen of this community who has a great deal of
credibility and who does work pro-bono on issues that affect this co*'r.'unity.
I want to remind you that this is the single most important project the City
has ever undertaken present or past. And I think that if somebody with the
credentials of Dan Paul when he brings out the kind of questions that he did
is entitled on behalf of his constituency which in my opinion are a lot of people
in this town to have an answer. And since we couldn't provide answers on a
thirdyimpartiallobjective viewpoint basis, we then retain Mr. Burns to come up
with a report. Now, I don't know what... I have never seen the report, I havent
even talked to Mr. Burns. I haven't got the foggiest idea of what he is going to
say, but I think it's well worth the time, effort and money to get to the bottom
of and satisfy all important and potential critics of to project. Now, I only
have one last question Vince, did you call and talk to every member of, this
Commission on this?
Mr. Grimm: I talked to every member on the Commission except Mrs. Gordon,
tried...
13
WAY 2 4 1979
Mayor Ferre: Well; why didn't you talk to Mrs. Gordon?
Grimm: Mrs'. Gordon
MayorlPerre: Did you send, her a copy of the memorandum?.
Mr. Grimm I handdelivered it to.her,secretary personally.`;
was not available for me to talk to.
Mayor Ferre; Alright. Rose, did you hear that?
Mrs. Gordon: No,. wasn't listening.
Mayor Ferre: He said that he called everybody, You :were ,out of town so he
hand delivered "a copy ofthis memorandum at... who did you give it.Ito? ;
Mr. ,Grimm: I gave it to Elaine..
Mayor Ferre: To Elaine,>ok.
Mrs. Gordon: I' was out of town Monday and Tuesday the 14th...
Mr. Grimm: You were out Monday Tuesday and Wednesday.
Mrs. Cordon: The 14th and 15th.
Mr. Grimm:
Pardon, Elaine?
(BACKGROUND CO!NENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Mrs. Gordon: Not, this week, you mean last week.
Mr. Grimm: Well, "I gave you a copy of that letter and you
told me she was out of town.
Mrs. Gordon: `. The week before?
Mr. Grimm: Yes,Ma'am. Whenever....
Mrs. Gordon: Monday and Tuesday a week ago.
Mr. Grimm: Yes, Ma'am, I thinkit was on...
Mrs. Gordon:
k,. I'm not arguing with you...
Mr. Grimm: I, know, I know that.
were the one
The Mayor asked the question..
that
Mrs. Gordon: I have noarguementon this particular item whatsoever. I am
not getting my ;memorandums on other things as long as the discussion is up
about me receiving what I ought to receive inequality, that'I received memorandums
in reply to my memorandums to the Manager today by getting them from another
Commissioner's office and they were responses to my.memorandums, we"never.;got
a copy." So you know, it's a lot of things that are strange around here and
that's just one of them. We are not getting our equal attentionthat we are
suppose to receive.
Mr. Grimm: I cannot speak for' other memorandums Mrs. Gordon, but in this
particular case, I p ersonall y delivered this memorandum to each of your
representatives.
Mrs. Gordon:
item.
I'm not arguing on that because I have no problems with.. this
Mayor Ferre: Rose,I will recognize you for that purpose in a moment if you
want, but in the meantimecan we get your report and would you ask Mr. Burns
to step forward and introduce him so we can ask him questions. Obviously Mr.
Burns there is rio way we can digest this in a few minutes, but why don't you
give usan overview of what the contract reads like and what your opinion
of it is and if it needs improvements.
.. ,
Mr. Burns:. Mr. Mayor and• members of the'Commission, we were asked on May
the llth to review all of the documents to date regarding this project
which we did. And we were also asked at that time to be prepared ;to;"come
down -„here .toMiami and present to you a.report with our <findings, .that ".it
was not to include any legalities because we assumed that you used proper
MAY 2 4 1979
lawyers and are following the etiquette required by the City, rather we were
asked to give our professional business opinion as to how the City of Miami
stands primarily in this whole project. And if you would permit Your Honor
I would like to introduce my Executive Vice -President who is younger than I
and who's eyes are a hell of a lot better than mine to read a few pages of this
report based on our findings and conclusions and we will be very happy to
answer questions after that. So if you would indulge us, I would appreciate it.
Mayor Ferre: Go ahead, Mr. Burns.
Mr. Burns: Thank you, sir. Mr. Bud DeSantis, my Executive Vice -President.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. DeSantis we'do have some other important business that
scheduled at 2 O'c.ock, so rather than reading all of the report perhaps you'
could just paraphrase and give us'the basic conclusions.
Mr. DeSantis: Well, basically the conclusions you will find in the, report
are from page eleven thru fifteen and what we are saying is that we have
looked at it from the standpoint of will the City (1) be able to have
sufficient revenues and funds to cover the debt service on the project which
we feel is the most. important thing. The second thing was whether or not the
Convention Center itself could self-sustaining or whether it would require
subsides from the and then, of course, the third thing was what the impact; of
the entire project would have on the overall economy of the City of Miami.
Therefore, we took...
Mayor Ferre; Now, wait a minute, excuse me, but those weren't the, only questions
you were going to involve yourself with. How about the hotel contract which is
what Dan Paul mostly wanted you to look at?
Mr. DeSantis: Well, we were
not given a copy of the management contract.
Mayor Ferre: Why not?, you have... Mr..Connolly? .The n DaPaul's main interest:
in this:matter`was.to.have"Mr.�Burns and'his associates::; input_ into,the hotel -
• - contract with Hyatt ,_Corporation.
Mr. Connolly: It was into theelease agreement with; the developer
business aspects were concerned.
Mayor Ferre: No, sir, I was at that meeting and it was very clearly...:this
..
man's main background is in the hotel business, Mx. Burns and heis a businessman.
too. I know that. But the main question asked of him was is the contract with
the Hyatt Corporation a good con
tract?
Mr. Connolly: Mayor, we don't have a contract with the. Hyatt Management
Corporation, we...
Mayor Ferre: You told me you had a copy of
that contract.
Mr. Connolly: We don't have a contractwith them ourcontract iswith the
developer.
Mayor Ferre: I realize that.
Mr. Connolly: The question was is the revenue in stream from the developer's
hotel to the City a good and fair deal in terms of the business aspects? And
that is what they have reviewed.
Mayor Ferre: No, sir, that's not what was agreed in the Conference Room where
I sat in on the meeting. They were requested... and we went through this
whole thing there and you saiethe contract for the Hyatt Corporation is not
with the City of Miami,it is with Worsham''and I said "that's fine, but we are
affected by it" and you said "but we have a copy of it" and I said "fine,
then you give Mr. Burns a copy of it". The other thing that Mr. Burns wanted.
to have was a copy of the Horwath and Horwath Report, I think it was the
Feasibility Report which you said.would not be ready until Wednesday following
which put it sometime, I guess, this week.
Mr. Connolly: It's this week, yes.
Mayor Ferree We don't have that in hand yet?
gl
15
NAY 2 4 1970
Mr. Connolly: No, we do not. But we have a preliminary assessment and
the assessment is that the figures that we had projected are within just
minor differences of what they would project that we would have, so it was
verifying basically what we had in our financial forecast.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I m going to tell you that I have not talked to Dan Paul
since that meeting, but I guarantee you that he and others are going to be
here and that this is not the request that was made of you. And the Manager was
present along with Dan Paul. So, this is fine.
Mr. Plummer: That's why I think this Commission should have the right of
input into what areas of questioning we wanted to do.
Mayor Ferv.: I'm beginning to wonder whether some members of this Commission
may not be right about the hearing or understanding... I really cannot believe
that we've gotten to this point where there is a report in our hand and the
main thrust of what was discussed there is completely ignored. I just can't
believe it. Co ahead.
Mr. DeSantis: Anyway we did rely heavily on the projections that were given
to us by Mr. Connoll.y with the understanding that... we •of course, would like
to have seen the Laventhol and Horwath figures also. Mr. Connolly did indicate
to us that they would not be materially different. Therefore, we took a look
at them as an independent outsider and came to our OU711 conclusions about revenues
and projected revenues. One of the things that we did was we discounted completely
the financial impact of the University of Miami's Conference Center aspect to the
overall project. Since the University had already funded three million two
hundred fifty thousand for it's portion of the project with two and a half million
for construction and seven hundred fifty thousand remaining for furniture, fixtures
and equipment and since the construction estimates basically agreed, the plus
to the City was the interest earned on the two and a half million dollars
during the entire project construction period for upon occupancy the University
will be responsible for it's own utilities, custodial service and staffing.
Thus, there is no cost to the City for the Conference Center. We feel that the
University's presence can do nothing but compliment the entire project by
creating a demand for both hotel rooms and convention space rental while adding
prestige to the complex. The retnainder of the City's portion of the project,
that is the Convention Center and the parking garage will demand level debt
service payments of two million seven hundred fifty-four thousand commencing
in 1983, this is the third year of operation. Debt service payments for the
construction period and the first two years of operation will total sixteen
million seven hundred fifty-six thousand with three million thirty-eight thousand
projected as net revenue from the Convention Center parking garage operations
and the remainder of thirteen million seven eighteen coming from the funded
reserve account. Actually, of the thirteen million seven hundred eighteen
thousand dollar deficitieight million dollars will be funded as follows: five
million from the developer, two and a half million prepaid rental payment
from the University of Miami and five hundred thousand in interest earned
on the invested funds. The remaining debt service deficit of five million
seven eighteen will come out of funds remaining in the capital improvement
fund and part of, the proceeds of the lease revenue bond issue. Operating
years 1983, 1983, 1985 are also projected as deficit years in the amount of
six hundred fifty-seven thousand, three hundred sixty-six thousand and a hundred
three thousand respectively. Again, these deficits are covered by the funded
reserve account. In years six through ten of operation substantial positive
cash flows are projected from a hundred sixty-two thousand in year six to 'a
million two hundred seventy-seven thousand in year ten. The projections also
indicate that adequate reserve funds will remain even after the deficit payments
are made for the first six years, one year construction and five years operations.
The funded reserve account will total three million two hundred fifty-four
thousand and the bond reserve or capital improvement fund will total two million
eight hundred sixty-six thousand. Thus, if the projections would hold true
the project would be viable and profitable to the City. At this point we would
like to comment. on Mr. Connolly's projections for the hotel project which of
course, will generate substantial rental income for the City. We are commenting
based on our experience in hotel management, marketing and finance. In hotel
operations profits come mainly from the sale of guest rooms. A good, lean rooms
operation at a respectable occupancy level, say 70% will return an 80% departmental
profit,whereas a successful food operation will return 10 to 15% departmental
profit and a successful beverage operation will return 40% to 50% departmental
16
WAY 2 4 1979
profit. Thus, the most vulnerable area of a hotel's revenue projections
would have to be the rooms. Taking into consideration the Market Feasibility
Study,prepared Junet1977 by Gladstone Associates,which states "Miami's average
occupied room rates are typically lower than either Miami Beach or the remainder
of Dade County by 20 to 25%. Additionally, Miami has been able to enjoy a steady,
year round occupancy of approximately 76%", our concern turned to the projections
of average room rate and percentage of occupancy. The Connolly projections...
Mayor Ferre: Excuse me, you know, you are reading the report and unfortunately
what's going to happen is you are now on page two and it's taken ten minutes
to get two pages, we've got four more pages to go and we've got a scheduled
2 O'clock meeting here on something that's very important to this community
and I'm afraid we are going to spend another half an hour on this. Could you...
I apologize for doing this to you, but this is not a scheduled item today on
this agenda. Would you summarize in ten minutes and at the end of ten minutes
I'm afraid we will have to move to the next subject.
Mr. DeSantis: Well, the only thing that I can say is that our conclusion is
that the project is very viable and we concur wholeheartedly with the City's
position. We think that the City has been protected, we think that the
developer has to be given some kind of an inducement in order to have him
build, we think that one of the things that was negotiated with the developer
recently was the elimination of the base rental, which we think is insignificant
as far as the City is concerned. The difference in the base rental, through
the projected real estate taxes, means an additional over... well, approximately
a .pillion dollars extra to the City without rent. Therefore, at this point
we feel that if the project or if the hotel did not generate sufficient net
operating profits so as to pay the City's rent, the City is already well protected
because they get their's off the top.
Mayor Ferre: Good.
that was our conclusion that...
Mayor Ferre: I want to read this as I'm sure the other members of the Commission,'
carefully and we would like to have the opportunity in the future to discuss
this with you. In addition, Mr. Connolly... did Mr. Connolly leave? Mr.
Connolly, in addition, I think the moment that the Laventhol/Horwath Report
is finished., I would like for these gentlemen to be furnished with that and
furthermore, I would like for them to look at the contract with the hotel
*tanagement people and I think we are entitled to that because we are affected
�•� that contract. And I would like for Mr. Burns and his associate to have
`he opportunity to look at that contract in particular and now, I think included
the scope of the work that was requefted. Now, I will open up this thing for
questions or anybody else who wants to add anything to the scope of the work.
Mr. Plummer.: Mr. Mayor, my main concern at all times has been the problems
that I feel are going to be generated and possibly magnified because what I
read in the paper, the World Trade Center, irrespective of what this Commission
might want, is built. Now, I am very concerned in a parking structure which is,
crucial to the operation and success of not only the hotel, the Convention Center,
the Conference Center and may be possibly a World Trade Center, parking for nine
hundred ninety-nine vehicles, five hundred of which are prioritized to the hotel,
three hundred which are prioritized to the Conference Center and a ridiculous
figure as proposed for the World Trade Center of two hundred fifty for a fifty
story building, that, that has got to have a tremendous impact and bearing on
the project, that a single nine hundred ninety-nine car garage is going to
fill anywhere near adequately those requirements for that heavy of a load.
If you can't provide parking to the hotel it's going to fall on it's face, like-
wise, each and every individual project. I think it is very crucial to the
success of the total project and that's one of the things. Not only do I think
It is inadequate, but I think that, that which is being proposed as a rate for
the structure, will not even begin to compensate to break even for the City
which it has been proposed to do. I am co:.cerned about the retail area, the
amount of money that is being spent to build the retail area as to it's
reasonable return to the City. 'I don't know whether you were asked to given
even an opinion on the feasibility of the additional funds spent for the garage
to may be facilitate this World Trade Center, I'm concerned about that.
(BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
gl
17
Mr. Plummer: Well, you know, you are talking about an additional five million
which possibly might come from the federal government.
Mayor';Ferre': J. L., excuse' me
Center at a11."
l�tr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I agree, but
conveniently has 'been left out.
Mayor Ferre: By whom?
Mr. Plumtner: I "don't know.
they were not asked to lookat. the World Trade
also agree thatit possibly inadvertently
Mayor :Ferret.. Well, see, let's go over -this-. Mr.Burns"is';a.hotel,',"hotel."
• expert. Now,. he has a', consultant company after.working thirty years.=in the
hoteh`industry. Mr. ;Dan Paul came here"and"said this -:is a -;bad deal and it's
full of legal problems and it's a bad.: deal' and'.it's a bad "deal".. - So,I said"
after that "Mr. Paul, .if it's a bad deal then would you tell us. specifically
how it's a bad deal?" "0h, I"don't know anything about the hotel business,
why•don't-you get a hotel expert" I. said "fine,you m coe up"with a hotel
expert and we will ask ":him to"look at -it". Mr.;,Paul called me ,up :few days
later and hey -says -"I have :hotel expert that will look at..the business. end
of this °project".-, Mr. Burns then flew down here from: Cleveland Dan, Paul:.
and Burns and Grassie and I':forget• who 'else ,..we`met and.we came o,this agreement
at Mr..Paul's insistence"that he come down" here. Now, I. had. nothing;to"do ,;
with the,World Trade.and,-. there was no subterfuge on -,anybody's part-
m to
hide anything." I -'"surprised that they have gotten as,deep as they -have, into '-
this thing I. thought all they were really going to,. is to look at, the ;hotel
portion of i;t which is what Dan Paul said he questioned. `,Now, I h"ave-been,...
corrected Dan Paul said he questioned the whole deal, ok.,So.they"addressed
themselves'to the whole deal and I am grateful. Thank'you Now, there."are
• some questions""in my mind about the hotel that` haven't been even addressed
muchless answered. And you have some other questions..
Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, if I can continue. I disagree with what you 'say,
i agree.that'Mr. Paul- brought up questions pertaining to: the •entire complex,
even -including the"`World'Trade.Center and :it was'the recommendation of the.
Administration that'this firm be'chosen:.becauSeir they had .done work for Hyatt in
the past.
Moyor:;Ferre:
r
Mr.
..Plummer:
Burns:
Mayor
No?
Yes. Is that correct?
o, we have never been employed by Hyatt.
Ferre: No,;you =are confusing them with Laventhol/Horwath.?
UNIDENTIFIED. SPEAKER:
a feasibility study...
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Plummer:
retained.
Laventhol and Horwath was almost completing
That's not the same study.
Alright, then. I stand. you are correct, .I
Mayor Ferrel Now, Laventhol/Horwath is going to .look at everything, including
the"parking„and the World Trade and what. have you, but that's not these people..
Then I stand corrected. -
Mr . Plummer•
Roy. Gibson: Well, Mr. Mayor, I wou
ft.; small compared with possibility.
.tout that Ball Point Property, was
want to gamble. I know what the bes
gamble with some degree of assurance
said and are saying that this is not
we ought to go ahead and...
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Plummer:
gl
I think...
Well, we
stand corrected.
ld think that the priceor thesum of money :.
I feel the same way about this as I did
that it? We; wanted to make sure, we didn't
t we are gambling, but at least we can
that people who are knowledgeablehave,
a bad deal to take on. I: wouid think that
voted to accept this firm to do the work.
18
'MAY 2 4 197a'
11111111111111111111111111111111111!!UIIIIII �� in ���■�� �"^
Mayor Ferre: Yes. I think that it's necessary now really for you to address
the remaining questions and I have posed one and I don't know whether... Plummer
you want to reiterate your question again?
Mr. Plummer: Go ahead.
Mayor Ferre: No, go ahead.
Mr. Plummer: No, I... basically, sir, my problem is greatly in the area of
parking. I think your figures don't hold water unless you address the parking
problem, because for your figures to hold water you must have successful the
parking, not only in rates, but in adequate size. And you know, it's fineto
assume that the parking is going to be there and I'm sure that's what you assumed
or had to assume. Now, I want you to go back and hook up the horse first,..
instead of the cart and let's find out that what we have or what is proposed
is adequate. That's the question in the area that I have and also aboutthe
retail space, but now I'm told that you are not...
Mr. Burns: Well, see, we simply looked at this only so that the garage would
just simply be an ancilary facility of the hotel and convention hall. So we .:.
looked at it from the standpoint that probably a thousand spaces would be
adequate.
Mr. Plummer: No, sir, you don't have that for the hotel. You have five hundred
prioritized for the hotel, youjhave.three hundred for the Conference Center
and I assumed in the benefit of everybody's heart whatever is left over might
go to the Convention Center that we are going to operate, everybody else is
guaranteed but us, ok.
Mr. Burns: Well, see, one of the things too, that we were also told was that
if five hundred spaces were on a priority basis for the hotel, that approximately
only ten percent of guests coming into the Miami area come by automobile.
Mr. Plummer:
Mr. Burns: It's a lower
is probably closer to 35 or 40%.
Mr. Plummer: Say, then you blow their proposal, right out>'the door,: you blow
their proposal right out the door. Now, if you took the time and I heard' -you:
:in your presentation allude to.some-obvious research that -:you did,=thatsaid"the
occupancy rate of hotels in Miami is'usually-considerably lowerthan that`on '
Miami Beach. Obviously, you didn't...
figure, mean, our experience is that, that figure
Mr. Burns: No, I said the other thing.
Mr. Plummer: Room, room?
Mr. Burns: I said the room rate... I'm simply quoting from the study that the
City had with Gladstone Associates, it was prepared for the City in June of
1977. I quoted from their study. Their study indicated that the room rate
average in Miami is 20 to 25% lower than the Beach, but they run consistently
higher occupancies in experiencing 76% annual occupancy rates. So with that
in mind, I said "'well, really the rate can be developed if occupancy is there".
Mr. Connolly: Commissioner Plummer, I would like to point out in 1977
the Omni was not opened. The economic model for the room rates that was used:
in Gladstone's Report was five hotels in town. It was the Dupont Plaza,
Sheraton Four Ambassadors, the Everglades and Columbus and The Mc Allister.
Mr. Plummer: What were the rates at the Columbus? What was that rate quoted?
Mr. Connolly: Well, I don't... not off the top of my head,
it, butit was in the thirties.''
(BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD
gl.
19
don't have:
WAY 2 4 left
Mr. Plummer: Well, the reason I'm asking that, have you seen the recen
rate that they are charging at the Columbus?
Mayor Ferre: It's about time.
Mr. Connolly: No, I haven't.
Mr. Plummer: You ought to look at it,
Mr. Connolly:
it's amazing.
Well, after Omni was...
Mr. Plummer: Fifty-one dollars a day.
Mayor Ferre: How'much?
Mr. Plummer: Fifty-one minimum.
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Plummer
Mr. Connolly:
Mr.
If'I had, had any sense; that's what I would have done.
comment
After Omni.
Plummer:' Rose? Rose, I didn't want you to miss that one.
Mr. Connolly: After Omni was opened, we used Omni as an economic
model because it is a first-class hotel and their established averagedaily
rate for 1978 was fifty-two dollars one cent and that reflected up at 7% to
1981 is the figure that they used here.
Mr. Plummer: Yes, but Mr. Connolly, you cannot compare Omni with even what
is being proposed in the Hyatt House. Omni has the backup parking of some
thirty-three hundred automobiles, you know. And if they are not =being "used
_
fine, then they are used for the Omni complex, ok.
Mr. Connolly: We talked to the Omni about the occupancy of their garage space.
They have over two hundred fifty spaces. They rarely rent out more than one
hundred spaces for valet parking for the hotel.
Mr. Plummer: Well,, fine, you know, it's not what you say that I disagree with,
it's what you don't say that I find a great dealof problem with. Now, we were=
all down there the other day for;, the International Folk Festival in which we
had a thousand people in that very successful affair upstairs. And I want to
tell you something, their parking was inadequate, it wasn't sufficient. Nov,
you know, Hyatt is going to run a big Convention/Banquet facility. The City
of Miami is proposedtomake a lot of money; off that, but guess what? We
ain't going to make it if people can't go there and find parking. Now, that'
fine to talk about the hotel and drop it and don't say no more, that's
convenient. Now, all I'm saying to you is I want the so-called experts who
I hired for ten thousand dollars, to stand up here and not quote from somebody
else's report. Iwant their report, they are the experts. You know,it's
nice to stand up here and say "CYA, I refer to the Gladstone Report". Well,
you know, if I was satisfied with the Gladstone Report, I wouldn't have brought
these gentlemen in.
Mayor,Ferre: Well, you are not the`one who -brought them in, it was Dan Paul
who...>and::you have to keep ;in perspective what.'•these people were hired to do
and why they;were•hired. These people are'not here in the :`place•'of Horwath
what's the<name of •that firm?
Mr. Grassie: Laventhol and Horwath.,
Mayor Ferre: Laventhol and:Horwath who by
thousand, but how much?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER; 42...
Mayor Ferre: 42 and that, that is the report that you can, in my opinion,
pick all the bones with. All this gdntleman was asked to-do is to look at
the contract to satisfy a certain segment of this community, that I guess you
can say, is led' by Dan Paul, ok.
Mr. Plummer:,; Mr. Mayor, it is my understanding at the least, that their charge
was in relation to the successful hotel operation. Is that correct?
the wayis charging us, not ten
Mayor Ferre: That's right.
gl
20
NAY 2 4 1971
eri
Mr. Burns: Well, let me say this Mr. Vice -Mayor. First of all, we were not
brought down to Miami to be a farmer and hitch a wagon and a horse. If we had
been in the first place, your horse and wagon would be in place today. We
were asked to come down here and review eleven documents that have already gone
a head of as over the, past four years and assemble them and put between one
little book so you can review it, where the hell you stand today and it is
viable? Ok? We were not asked to be legal experts. We were not asked to
reinvent the wheel, we were just asked to review those things that were available
to us which we did in a period of time that was almost impossible for us. We
did this believe me, in deference to the 1ayor as a favor fo this City. Now,...
Mr. Plummer: Sir, let me say to you. I apologize...
Mr. Burns:..we were charged to do exactly what we did. Now, we can't startit.
over.
Mr. Plummer: Sir, I apologize to you for takingup s
for the wasting of our money. Now, not to you, yantditIttlield nio don't
tt c!713:01-logize
you, You have done exactly what You were instructed. I am finding fault in
who instructed you. Alright, sir?
Mr. Burns: I can only be the student. I listen to my teachers.
Mr. Plummer: I understand, sir and I'm not finding... Please don't take
anything I have said Personal with you or your company, sir.
Mr. Burns: I have been around the track for sixty-four years, nothing is
personal anymore with me.
Mr. Plummer: That's twenty-four years longer than I have been alive, sir.
Mr. Burns: And I hope you accept that the way I say it too.
Mr. Plummer: Alright, sir. Ok.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I don't... are there any other questions of Mr. Burns or
any other recommendations as to the questions that are to be asked?
Mr. Burns: We can be back here at any time Your Honor.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Burns, I am very grateful, I hope you understand that we have
very active Commission and that we really were not fully informed. Since nobody
other than myself had the opportunity to visit with you when you were down
with Mr. Dan Paul. And I know you had to get... as a matter of fact, you had
to catch that plane... did you catch that plane?
Mr. Burns: Yes and I met Mr. Dan Paul and you within the same hour, so in
case anybody thinks I know Mr. Dan Paul, I don't. So let's set that straight.
Mr. Plummer: We won't hold that against you, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, and I understand. And you were referred to him and you
were carefully checked out. And I understand all of that... and by the way
I want to tell you that we further checked you out and you have a very fine
reputation every where you have dealt. So I want to tell you that we are
happy that you came down here and took a look at all these docuinents. We are
happy with your report. I don't think it's finished. I.hope that you would
give us the benefit of your thinking on the missing documents that hopefully
you will get soon.
Mr. Burns: Be delighted. And also, I would like to just close by saying,
this, coming over here from the Beach the Cab Driver said "Miami is the City
on the go today, people are staying there now, not on the Beach". So my
compliments to the people who are running the City.
,
Mayor Ferre: Thank you, Mr. Burns, have a nice trip back. Alright, is there"' .
anything else?
Rev. Gibson: What do we do?
Mr. Plummer: Mr.Mayor,I would like the Manager... - %./ould likemake to amotion
gl f
:..,
21 NAY 2 4 OM t
. .
at this time that the Manager be instructed to solicit proposals for a so-
called expert in operation and development of parking garages, who can come
before this City and give an answer as to the adequacy or inadequacy of the
proposed parking structure that is now on the drawing boards for the complex.
of hotel, Conference Center, Convention Center and possibly a World Trade Center.
As you know, it has been my contention that it is totally inadequate without a
World Trade Center and that addition would just make it impossible. So,...
Mayor Ferre: Alright, Mr. Plummer, before I ask for a second perhaps if you
just listen for a second,.I think may be you might be satisfied. The Off -Street.
Parking Authority has such an expert, the expert is called Conrad Associates.,
Conrad Associates were retained they are:, about the best in the Country in that
kind of work. They do all the work for Colonel Wolfson.
Mr. Plummer Not according to staff.
Mayor Ferre: Now, the Laventhol/Horwath people besides doing accounting work,
also do that type of economic survey. Now, we are paying them forty-five
thousand dollars to come back with Conrad and review the parking structure'as
a part, of the report that we will be getting back from Laventhol/Horwath. It
includes thefeasibility of parking. Now, I just want to make sure you are.
aware of that because if you want a further report other than the one coming
back from Conrad Associates and Laventhol/Horwath...
Mr..Connolly:" Conrad Associates was not retained by or through the City or
Laventhol and Horwath. The data that was projected by Conrad and corrected
by the City to street rates was verified withConrad and said to be acceptable
and then it was given as...
Mr. Connolly: After we had changed from Off -Street Parking Authority rates
to the street rates in the immediate area of the Convention Center and based
upon that the garage would come into the black at the end of the second year.
Now, we verified` those figures with Conrad Associates and then gave that
document to Laventhol and Horwath.
Mayor Ferre: I have one question for you. Is Laventhol/Horwath coming back.
in their -report addressing itself to the question that Mr. Plummer has been
raising hers, not as to whether it is economically feasible or whether or not
it will pay off the bonds or what have you, but whether or not there is
sufficient parking for the total project as defined.
Mr. Connolly:
Mayor Ferre Alright, so his recommendation thenhink, is"in order. And`
I certainly' would subscribe to it. What he is saying is that we have to 'assure
that we are not going.to build a hotelor`Conventi n::Center orWorld'Trade
Center and find ,:that we don't have enough"parking. Now, I think that's a: valid.
point. There is a motion "on the floor, is`athere second?
Mr. Lacasa:
second it.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, now, under discussion. Is that going to hold back the
financing? Is this going to create problems with Mass Mutual and First of
Chicago or whatever the name of that bank is that's...
Mr. Connolly: I. don't believe it will hold back the financing plan, no.
Mayor Ferre: Will it hurt the UDAG application?
Mr. Connolly: No, I don't;belicve so:.
Mayor Ferrer So is there any reason why we shouldn't do this?
Mr. Grassier I don.'t know of any reason to not do it, Mr.`Mayor. I assume
that we would have a little time; to do it and that we would not, hold up other
things, butI think that it is one more verification that the City Commission
should have.
Mayor Ferrer Ok. Now, who would you; get as a parking... Now, the one thing
I don't want to do is to get the Parking Authority and Mitchell Wolfson all
upset that we are now interfering in their end of things. So I would hope
that J. L., that in your motion you would include that it would be in cooperation
61
I A1' 2 4 1!7!
with the Off -Street Parking Authority and that kind of
Mr. Plummer: Absolutely not.
Mayor Ferre: You want
participate at all?
Mr. Plummer: No, sir.
to
doit outside o
the...
stuff, you know.
iou don'
wantthem to
Not -after what I have been told by staff.
Mayor Ferre: Alright. You want the City staff to just go ahead and get a
consultant to study the parking requirements of those projects?
Mr. Plummer: I want them to come back to this Commission with the names of
two or three people who do this professionally and independently and a cost
factor and this Commission will make the decision as to which one they want.
Mayor Ferre: Ok, I get the thrust of it.
BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Mr. Plummer: That's right,_ you, don't.
Mr. Connolly: Just let me point out in the Conrad Report there were..,.
(BACKGROUND. COMMENT OFF
THE PUBLIC. RECORD
Mayor Ferre: Go ahead.
Mr. Connolly: Commissioner Plummer?
Mr. Plummer: Yes, sir?
Mr. Connolly: The Conrad Report was extensively done and... it was actually
done twice. It was done under the original direction of Mitch Wolfson in
which he said "create a parking garage for the needs of the Convention Center
and hotel". And they came back with a study for seven hundred fifty cars. We
disagreed with two things primarily in that report. One was financing by the
City to undarpin all of the bond portfolio of the authority for like twenty-
five years to the tune of four hundred thirty-six thousand dollars a year.
Mr. Plummer: Remember that well.
Mr. Connolly: Secondly, they were adding two million dollars that they had
borrowed on short-term high interest and throwing that into the bond issue.
So it made a major burden to the City. We then went back and said there is
going to be an air rights building of approximately three hundred thousand
square feet, whether it's a World Trade Center or another hotel or whatever,
but based upon...
Mr. Plummer: You see,... Mr. Connolly, where in the devil did you get this?
information from?
Mr. Connolly: The original request for proposal for developers had two hotels.
Mr. Plummer: No, no, where did you, get an idea that there was going to be an
air rights structure? I don't recall at any time this Commission yet passing
such a thing.
Mr. Connolly: They did not
the garage, but the request
developers and the proposal
to phase "B" having an air
Mayor Ferre:
discussed.
pass a specific air rights structure developed on
for proposals that went out originally to all the
that came back from all the developers responded
rights hotel to start with on that side.
That's right and the document veryclearly says it and it :was
Mr. Plummer: Oh, the hotel?
Mr. Connolly:
(BACKGROUND COMMENT INAUDIBLE)
gl
MAY 2 4 1$?t
Mr. Connolly: Alright, so I... In our discussions with the Off -Street Parking
Authority's consultant, we said "if you consider an additional building -and it
so happens we had already been talking to the World Trade Center people and
they were talking about a three hundred thousand square foot building. An a
additional hotel was also approxiniately three hundred thousand square feet and
we said "if you had either one of these on there, what would you be required
to do?" and they said "a thousand cars"
Mayor Ferre: Alright, Mr. Connolly, we have a motion and I. think it's.2:35
and there are people here on other matters and we really have to get on with
it. So unless there is any further dismission 'I will Call' the roll...
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
MOTION.-NO. 79-383
A MOTION' INSTRUCTING THE CITY MANAGER TOrSOLICIT PROPOSALS FROM
INDIVIDUALS WITH AN EXPERTISE IN THE ;FIELD OFOPERATION.AND
DEVELOPMENT OF PARKING GARAGE STRUCTURESAND. TO BRING BACK TO.
THE COMMISSION THE NAMES OF TWO.OR THREE OF.SUCH INDIVIDUALS FOR
THE COMMISSION'S CONSIDERATION FOR THE PURPOSE OF REQUESTING
THEIR PROFESSIONAL EVALUATION. AS TO THE ADEQUACY OR INADEQUACY.
OF THE PRESENTLY PROPOSED PARKING GARAGE FOR THE CITY OF MIAMI/'
'UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI - DAMES L. KNIGHT, INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE
AND CONVENTION CENTER AND POSSIBLY IN CONNECTION WITH THE WORLD
TRADE CENTER.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner,,Lacasa, the motion was passed
and adopted by the following vote- I
AYES:
Commissioner Rose Gordon
Commissioner'Armando Lacasa
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson
Vice -Mayor J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
7. REPEAL ORDINANCE 6945 - CIVIL SERVICE RULES & REGULATIONS AND
SUBSTITUTE THEREFOR A NEW CODE OF CIVIL SERVICE RULES & REGULATIONS.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, now we are back to Item #1 and Mr. Krause, the Chair
recognizes you. I don't see Mr. Rosenburg...
Mrs. Gordon: Wait a minute, I think it would be unfair to keep Mr. Rice here
from the HSA for about what would be a three or four hour hearing.
Mayor Ferre:
Is Mr. Rosenburg
(BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Mayor Well, but that's unfair to Mr. Rice.
(BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Ma Ferre:
That's true.
a Ivor' Ferre: Yes,
Mrs. Gordon: What is so urgent
they are here before us?
Mavor Ferree
to•
be here -
Mrs. Gordon:
but it's not Mr....
here yet?';
n his presence
when he has made his recommendations,
There is no urgency, he just requested as a courtesy that he wanted
And he didn't know because it's not a' scheduled item.
Well,
we have no objection.
gl
24
MAY 2 4 1979
Mayor Ferre: That all depends on whether you want to extend to him that courtesy
Or not.
Mrs. Gordon:Well we don't have any discourteous feelings toward, but he did
make his recommendations, he made some good ones and I don't know that we need...
I don't even think that Mr. Rice really has to wait, you know, just specifically
for it..
Mayor Ferre: I don't' think that Mr. Rice has to wait for it
Mrs. Gordon: Unless he wants to, then we welcome his presence, but from the
standpoint of need of witnesses to our selection process, I don't think anybody,
is absolutely necessary.
Mayor Ferre.: I agree with that, Rose. I` also feel that people who want to
be heard should be given the courtesy and since this whole thing really started
at the request of Rosenburg, that we should give him the courtesy of saying whatever
it is he has to say, which I...
Mrs. Gordon:
Ok, Mr. Rice,, if you wish to stay, we welcome your presence.
(BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)'
Mayor Ferre: Alright, thank you, Mr. Rice.
Mrs. Gordon: Thank you.
is a'Commission Meeting on
Mayor Ferre:, We are now on Item` #1
Amendments. Mr. Krause?
Mr. Krause: Mr. Mayor and members of the City Commission, this item is an
ordinance amending the present Civil Service Rules and Regulations of the City
of Miami. The ordinance has been under study for something over a year and
has been pending before the City Commission since July of last year. The
ordinance was originally initiated because the United States Justice Department
wrote a letter to the Mayor and the City Manager, indicating that the City
would not be able to comply with the consent decree unless we made some
institutional changes in our employment practices, especially chances in the
Civil Service Rules. The proposed amendments were drafted and submitted to the
Civil Service Board and were approved by the Board last year with all of the
public members voting in favor of the proposals. The City's Affirmative Action
Advisory Board has also endorsed the proposals on two separate votes, most
recently being Wednesday of last week. At that time all of the public members
of the Affirmative Action Advisory Board and one of the Union members of the
Board voted to endorse and support the proposals.
which
the
Civil
Mayor Ferre: Well, wait a minute, I didn't hear that. I thought that the`.
proposal had been voted on when Argues was on the Board.
Mr. Krause: I'm sorry if I'm confusing you, sir. The Civil Service Board has
voted once on these rules, they did so last year when Mr. Argues was a member
of the Board and all of the public members of the Civil Service Board voted to
to support the changes. The City's Affirmative Action Advisory Board has voted
on these proposals on two separate occasions. Once was last... some time last
Summer, the other was last week on Wednesday. Last week on Wednesday all public
Affirmative Action Advisory Board and one of the union members of the Board
voted in favor of the proposals. Despite the support from official bodies of
the City of Miami, these proposals have provoked a good deal of controversy.
So of the City's unions contend that the rules go too far, on the other hand
at least one of the community groups that I have talked too, contend that the
rules do not go far enough and that what is really needed in the City of Miami
is a change in the Charter Provisions. And other people have suggested that
some form of compromise should be arranged. The proposals that are now pending,
in fact, already represent a compromise, they do not for example, go nearly as
far as the recommendations made in 1970 by the National Civil Service League
which is the biggest group in the Country that advocates Civil Service. They
are the group that founded or conceived the Civil Service idea practically a
hundred years ago,
Mr. Krause: (Continued) ... that led to the creation of the United States
Civil Service Commission and that league in the past century has changed a
good deal of its thinking about how Civil Service should operate. The changes
that are before you don't go as far as the changes adopted by the United States
Government last year which abolished the United States CiviLService;Commission
which was the first Commission in the ,country created in 1883. The changes do
not go as far as many other changesthat have been made by state.and-local
governments during the Civil Service Reform Movement of the last 15 years or
so but they do, however, go at least as far as what the Justice Department sug-
gested to the City last year. Any proposal to change something; of course,
always provokes a reaction. The proposals that are pending have been criti-
cized I think for two basic reasons. One of them is reflected -in a document
that I saw during the last two days', an analysis prepared by the Police Union
that uses the phrase "unbridled discretion of the Director of Human Resources
in the employment process" that would result supposedly from these rule changes.
That document overlooks thefact that during the last 15 Years there have been
changes at the federal level that limit discretion by, employers in a great nuM-
ber of areas. Title Vil of the Civil Rights Act is the basic document• govern-
ing employement practices in state and local government. Under Title VII the
federal government has issued some very detailed -uniform guidelines on employee
selection which govern all employers in their hiring and promotion practices.
The federal guidelines also incorporate the professional standards of the Amer-
ican Psychological Association and the Consent Decree that the City has requires
the City to use valid selection procedures. ,These are more than ample rules
for the City to follow, they are, in fact, very difficult rules for the City
to follow and present very specific and detail guidance that any City official
must follow in.theemployment process. The second.argumeht that I have heard
is one that says' these changes would lead to political patronage in the City
of Miamis' employment system. I don't think that that comment or criticism
is justified.' Procedures very similar to what are pending before you are Used
now by many other strong merit systems in state and local governments across
the country,. More liberal procedures, in fact, are used in some cases by the
United States government and even by Dade County which is the sister,agency
here in the area as the City of Miami. I think perhaps the Criticisms -come
from people who are not familiar with the Civil Service Reform Movement that
has developed during the last decade primarily but,even going back 20 years.
The Reform Movement actually started with a report of the Municipal Manpower
Commission in 1960. It gained strengthwith a new model law that was proposed
by the National Civil Service League ten years later in 1970 and it gained.,
further impetus from the Civil Rights Amendments of 1972 which for the first
time brought state and local governments under the provisions of title VII. ,
In my judgement these are fairly conservative proposals, they do'not go nearly
as far as some of the other public agencies have gone yet they do represent at
leastminimal steps to comply with what the Justice Department has;suggeSted'
to the City in fairly specific terms. I think that's probably enough- hy:',,.my
of introduction, I'd be glad to answer questions.
Mayor Ferre: All right, T think the way we're going to do this, I know Mr.
Squire Padgett is.here, I saw him a little while ago, from the Justice Depart-
ment. I would ask him first, if I may ----
Mr. Joe Kaplan: Mr. Mayor, excuse me, sir, I have a motion to continue which
might if it is, granted;save everybody the time of making a presentation now
when perhaps they might want to make it in a week or -two. ;
Mayor Ferre: ;Well,. I'll leave that up to Mr. Padgett, he's come hre from Wash-
ington and I'm certainly not going to put him on the, you know, not tell him
;.
that he doesn't have the opportunity to 'say whatever he wants to say here.
Mr. Kaplan: Well, I've already discussed this with Mr. Padgett, he knows that
I'm going to make my motion to continue, it's an appropriate one at this time,
Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Fine, but I want to hear from Mr. Padgett then I'll recognize
you you and you can tell us anything you want. Mr. Padgett? Reverend Conrad
is here from the CRB, and thank you very much, Reverend, for being here. We'll
recognize you in a little while, I think what I'd like to do is first hear
,
from the Justice Department then hear from the attorney for the unions and then
I'm going to ask the Chairman of the Civil Service Board and the Chairman of r
the Affirmative Action Board and then .I'm going to ask the representative of '5
the CRB to make his statement.
rt
26
$4 i‘f 2 4 1970
lir
Rev. Conrad: You're saving me for last because I'm best or weakest?
Mayor Ferre: Well, if you have a problem with time, as soon as..
Rev. Conrad: 1 really have a problem with time, your honor, but I'll be glad
todefer to whatever you wish:
Mayor Ferre: Ifyou wouldn't mind then here's what we'11'do. We'll' hear from
the Justice Department and then from the attorney from the unions and then
we'll hear you. Okay?
Rev. Conrad: Thank you.
Mr. Squire Padgett: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and I wish to thank you and the
other members of the Commission for this opportunity to speak. Mine is going
to be very very short. What I would like to do more than anything is be able
to respond to questions that any of you might have since I have, almost all
of my contact with the City is with the representatives that you have indicated
we should be in contact with - Mr. Knox and Mr. Krause by name mostly. But I
think it is very very obvious that the Justice Department is very much in sup-
port of the proposed changes. As Mr. Krause said I think some of the impetus
for them came from our letter to you and I believe that was last April. We
sent the letter to you, the Mayor, as well as Mr. Knox and the Director of
Human Resources. We think this is a strong step in the right direction and it
will institutionalize many of the concepts that were agreed to in the Consent
Decree and it is our belief that after many of these things are instituted
that it will be for the benefit of all - that's the way we see it, for the
minorities but the majority as well. Okay? Now, I wish other than that :I
think I would like to respond to your questions. I think it would be inappro-
priate for me to respond to the substance of the document. There is one other
thing I would like to point out, in that letter one of the other things that
we said, we were somewhat disappointed with the fact the City had not appointed
any females to the higher level or management level jobs. Okay? We had got-
ten some responses on that, shall I say we're still not totally happy about
that and I'd like to bring that to the Commission's attention at this time
also but let me respond to the questions, it may help.
Mrs. Gordon: I have a very important question which is right on target because
what we're here today is to discuss rule changes to Civil Service when the real
abuses in discrimination have not been in that level but in the Management
level. Now, the reason that we don't have women in important positions is be-
cause the Manager has not chosen to appoint any women in any important posi-
tions, until within the past 30 days or so there was not a single woman di-
rector and that woman is a very well qualified person who is handling, was
handling an important role in our government but was not a director, she was
in charge of Community Development. But what I'm trying to say is that we're
here, we're talking to an issue which is not the issue. The issue is over
there and I firmly believe that because in the letter that you received out-
lining the fact that a woman had been appointed to the Civil Service Board as
Executive Director, I would like to correct that. That's an elected position
by the members of the Civil Service Board itself. It has nothing whatsoever
to do with the control,- supposedly - of management. So I point this out to
you because really there is a need for reform in this community, in this City
in hiring practices but the rule changes are not going to do anything more in
my opinion than permit an excessive amount of discrimination to take place
based upon the whims of a single individual.
Mr. Padgett: Are you asking me for a response?
Mrs. Gordon: No, I'm making a statement in combination with....
Mr. Padgett: I didn't think you were.
Mrs. Gordon: ... in combination with an observation which I feel you have not
been given fairly. I feel you have been given a distorted point of view and
it has come from our Manager, I point to the Manager because his department
heads and anyone working under him are responsible to him.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Padgett, I didn't think you were the kind of a man that some-
body could distort and thwart and change and just configure things and that .;
you just would follow and believe everything. I didn't know that you had that,
kind of a relationship with the Manager, I thought you worked for the Justice
Department, that your opinions were of your own and that of the Justice Depart-
ment.
1
rt
27
1&AY 2 4 1979
Mr. Padgett: Well, so that I don't get embroilled in this, and I indicated
I would not respond, I do represent the Justice Department and I do think
that by and large we have operated at arms' length. There are many, and I
would like to at least say this to Mrs. Gordon, there are many things that
go on in the City that I am aware of but it is not appropriate for us to take
a part in and I think in all the times I've been before Judge Eaton he has
kind of said the same thing that the running of the City is not necessarily
his responsibility and the Justice Department feels the same way. We do when
we think there is something wrong do attempt to point it out but there are.
very few times when we have actually ever specifically demanded a specific.
course of action, I think there are if any that I can recall, I may stand
corrected. Okay?
Mayor Ferre: From the Justice Department's point ofview once more, it is
your opinion that the only way - as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong,
that we're going to have Affirmative Action in this City is when we change the
rules in Civil Service so that there will be upward mobility arid accessibility
to jobs by minorities and women. Is that correct?
Mr. Padgett: I don't think I<quite said it that way but I understand what
you're saying. What I do say, what I'm saying is that I'' think there are a
number of steps the City of Miami needs to take to enhance the opportunities
of minorities and women and ,,"I think that the Civil Service Board, these pro-
posed Civil Service Board rule changes is clearly one of the big steps in the
right direction. I think we're saying the same thing.
Mayor Ferre:
You are recommending that we adapt these rules?
Mr. Padgett: ;I`don't know if I; can recommend for the""City to adopt but ""I will
say this, I think it is a big step in the right direction. Okay? I"don't
think it would be appropriate for the Justice Department to recommend.
Mayor Ferre: Would you say that this is a conservative move on our part? It's
certainly not, there are other cities and other communities that have done
much more than this.
Mr. Padgett: Since I'm "a-political'I don't know what would be conservative
or liberal but :I do say, Mr. Mayor, it clearly is a step right direction and
it's a very positive step,,I mean there is no question in my,"mind --however you
characterizeit. Let me_just ask ifthere areany other questions. Anybody_:.
else have ' any�'
questions for me.
Mr. Plummer:
Mr. Padgett: I` am
Mr. Plummer: Because I've got
appropriate time.
Mrs. Gordon: I just want one brief statement again, it's not a question but
a statement because of what was said before that in a strong Mayor forni of
government there is that ability to hirepeople by the Chief Executive Officer
who in that case is the Mayor. In our City we don't have a strong Mayor form
of goverrsnent, that's why we must rely on a fairand equitable, we're not "sup-
posed ' to have a spoil system, that only goes with a strong Mayor. We're not
supposed to do it back the door, as I've heard some people say before, what
we can't do by the front door and that is really what it is al]. about in these
rule changes. ;It gives total discretion to the Human Resource Director and
that is - and believe me we're going out of the business of CETA but we're
coming in with a replacement tool which is going to;really be the thing that's
being counted on to put those people into jobs who are going to be working in,
campaigns
some other questions but they'll be"`at a more
Mr. Kaplan: Mr. Mayor, I. appreciate the effort to, the time you've given me,
may I respectfully move that the matter be continued for a short period of
time? Because of some recent developments that perhaps you'reaware of prior
to today, and if not I've given you a copy, of a notice filed in Case 75-3096,
the United States District Court, Southern District of Florida, it is a notice:"
of hearing in the case of the United States of America versus the City of Miami,
Florida, in the very case from which the Consent Decree arose which Pir. Padgett parti-
cipated so thoroughly:` in and which is in my judgement the key for his contin-
ued participation in the City'sactivities." In' this case our office with we
28
rt
ifAy 2 4 1979
hope the knowledge of your City Attorney filed last year motion to intervene
plus a request for certain remedial action be taken by Judge Joe Eaton. In
our papers which were filed in your federal court case we made reference to
an earlier agreement that had been worked out between myself as attorney for
the International Association of Fire Fighters, Local Union 0587, Mr. Robert
Krause, Director of the Human Resources Dept., Dean R. Mielke, Labor Relations
Officer, the union and George F. Knox, Jr. who is the City Attorney, a copy
of this agreement has also been supplied to you folks. This agreement which
was worked out last year anticipated because at that time there was something
very pressing occuring, anticipated that something would develop which would
cause the City to try to change the working conditions of the people we repre-
sent. Someway something would happen and that at some point somebody in the
City Government would say, "These changes are needed because the Consent De-
cree dictates that they be made." This agreement, therefore, that we worked
out with all of the officials of the City and the union and myself that I men-
tioned earlier says this on page 1, "Where a dispute arises between the City,
and the union and the City contends that a proposed practice, policy or pro-
cedure to be adopted by the City is one which will implement the Consent
Decree upon notice to the City the parties will meet, discuss and attemptto
agree to a resolution of that dispute." "Where the parties have met, discus-
sed and agreed to the resolution of that dispute that agreement will be reduced
to an exchange of letters which will contain the following language,"then we
talk about how we can resolve these matters informally and then formally.'; And
then it goes on in paragraph 4 on the first page, "Any dispute involving the
implementation of the Consent Decree that cannot be through the above proced-
ure shall be submitted to the United States District Court for the Southern
District of Florida which has jurisdiction in the above described lawsuit.
The precise question to be proffered to the court shall be whether the pro-
posed practice, policy or procedure to be adopted by the City of Miami is,
indeed one which will implement the Consent Decree described above. At the
time or following the adoption of your proposed amendment to the Civil Service
Rules and Regulations we met with Mr. Knox, we were in communication with Mr.
Padgett, we did our best to resolve our position that those changes which have
been proposed are not required by the Consent Decree, in fact, in our judge-
ment in some instances it violates the Consent Decree. It was our opinion
that the proposed changes violate your Charter and state law and cannot be
dealt into the City's rules and procedures by the (inaudible) of the
Consent Decree that's existing in the United States District Court. So, we
attempted to resolve that problem. As a matter of fact, some time ago you
had this same matter on your agenda to discuss and I came before you after the
Community Relations Board suggested that they were in favor of some changes
in the rules and procedures of the Civil Service Board and I suggested that
the union that I represented and other employee groups would be delighted to
sit down with anybody to try to make whatever changes may be needed except
the changes that have been proposed because we're opposed to those changes
not on the grounds that they don't accomplish implementation of the Consent
Decree, although we contended that in Federal Court, but on the grounds that
they violate your Charter and they are not justified by the Consent Decree.
Well, we were unable to reach an agreement so we filed our papers in the fed-
eral court seeking to have the federal judge do what this agreement that we''en-
tered into in good faith with your City officials said that the judge would
do, that they judge should do. We don't know if the judge is going to do it,
he may not but at any rate we filed our motion. Now unfortunately because
of the press of other affairs of court we believe that motion was not set down
for hearing. As a matter of fact, on February 7th, 1979 Mr. Knox wrote a let-
ter to all the people who were involved in that agreement. It reads as fol-
lows: "I have attached a copy of a letter from the United States Department
of -Justice wherein they have expressed their continuing concern that there
have been no activities regarding the adoption of Civil Service Rules and
Regulations which are designed to implement the Consent Decree. I note that
the question of the propriety of the proposed amendments to the Rules and Regu-
lations has been before the federal court for a substantial period of time
but the court has not to this date scheduled a hearing nor issued a ruling."
And Mr. Knox goes on to say that because of the failure of the court to set
it down for hearing and because of Mr. Padgett's concern that nothing is be-
ing done that you folks set it down for a hearing. I suggest to you that per-
haps because of an article in the paper perhaps because of the lessening of
the court's calendar burden just last week and not based upon anything I did
I assure you the judge set this down for hearing on June 1, 1979. We would
appreciate and formally move at this time that you hold off on your consider-
ation of the amendments and give creedence to the agreement that we worked
out with your people because we believe that regardless of what the judge
does we could gain some valuable 'insight into the court's opinion about the
rt
29
MAY 2 4 1971
implementation of the Consent Decree vis-a-vis the rules and regulations that
are before you for a vote. We are not addressing ourselves at this time to
the pros and cons of that. I will if you deny my motion to wait until after
June 1 when the court rules I will if you deny my motion be prepared to dis-
cuss the views of the Fire Fighters of the City of Miami, there are two other
employee attorneys including one Mr. Don Slesnick who represents a substantial
number number of minority employees of the City who is prepared to give their
opinions with respect to these proposed amendments. At any rate I think that
it is proper before you to consider my motion to continue and it's not such a
long period of time in the future that I'm seeking.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you, Mr. Kaplan, let me ask you a question. Mr. Padgett,
when did you first come down to Miami, the first trip you came down here?
When was the visit that Paul Andrews, John Lloyd and I had up in Washington?
Mr. Padgett:
Mayor Ferre: Yes, the first trip that I went up there with. the City Attorney
and what have you. (INAUDIBLE" RESPONSE) That was five years now or four years?
It's going on five years. Now when you came down here we went through this
process and when was the Consent Decree arrived at?
Mr. Padgett: (SPEAKING FROM AUDIENCE, INAUDIBLE)
Mayor Ferre: December of 1975. Now we are in the middle of 79 so that's 3�
years that we've. been at this since we've had the Consent Decree. Now when
was it that we asked the judge to rule on' these proposed or let me ask Mr.
Krause. What was the date when. the Civil Service Board accepted or first
passed the Civil Service Rule changes?
•
Mr. Krause: That action was taken' in June of last year and 1 believe.the date was June 27, 1978.
Mayor "Ferree: Okay, so we're now eleven months into that process.. Now, as.I
recall Mr. Knox, wethen asked the judge to rule on that, we agreed that we
were going to letthe judge give us his opinion.
Mr. Knox: In September a motion was filed on behalf of the Fire Fighters'
Union seeking to intervene in the litigation and attached to that motion was
the proposed complaint which made reference to the proposed Civil Service
Rule' changes.
Mr. Kaplan: The motion to `intervene covered it, too..
Mayor Ferre: Well, I guess one way to look at this is that it took a hundred'
years toovercome the Dred Scott Case andperhaps we shouldn't be discouraged
because it's only taken us five year to get this far. I would certainly ., .
think that there are some very important' issues at stake here and I understand
what you're .saying. ..;My`personal opinion is that`. the time has arrived for this
City Commission to take a position 'onthis matter and if the judge wants to
take one sideor thejudge wants to take another side he's perfectly, entitled
to do that andif the unions want to pursue this to the Supreme Court of the .'.
United States they're entitled to do that too, but I think it is time for us
to fish or cut bait and Ifor one arn willing to take my position today.
Mr. Kaplan: Mr. Mayor, may I make the observation that I first learned of
the judge's setting this down for hearing a day before yesterday and yester-
day I was on the telephone to Washington and to every member of "the'.City's
staffinvolved in this to try to postpone this hearing for one, darned week
and I was turned down. Now I think I acted with expedition, we're only talk-
ing about a week. I'm not interested in delaying, I'm the one that suggested
that we go to court in September. I, went to court, it wasn't my fault that
the judge just set it down for June 1 and I'm suggesting we're so close to
the date on which the court will decide the issue, what is the rush'. after so
many years? One week?
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Kaplan, you know I'll tell you, you, know we've been waiting
since September, eight months. I'm not in any way, 1 know how busy Judge
Eaton is and I know how busy the federal courts are but I' think it's a matter
of philosophy. I think it is important for this Commission like the Civil
Servic
e Board to stand up and take 'a philosophical posture.
Mrs.
Gordon:", Mr. Mayor, may I:ask the Manager a question?
Mayor Ferre: Go ahead'.
MAY 2 4 1979
rt
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Grassie, when did you first become employed here as the Man-
ager of the City, what date?
Commissioner.
Mr. Grassie: In August three years ago,
Mrs. Gordon: August of 1976, is that when you became employed here?
Mr. Grassie: That's correct.
Mrs. Gordon: It took you from August, 1976 until April of 1979 to hire the
first woman director. How many directors did you hire during that period of
time, Mr. Grassie, and assistant directors and assistant Managers?
Mr. Grassie: Commissioner, to give you an accurate answer I would have to
give you an update of the report that I prepared for you approximately a year
ago, and if you remember that report it covered all of the unclassified posi-
tions in the City and the percentage of minority hiring for all unclassified
positions, that is the ones that I appoint, was 60%. It is well above the
percentage that applies to any other category of City employment.
Mrs. Gordon: You hadn't hired any women, Mr. Grassie, that's the point I'm
bringing out, that the rush to hear this and to rule this day when one week
from today the judge will have a ruling because of whatever reason - the
Mayor's argument doesn't add up to why the Mayor hasn't been pushing you for
almost three years to hire some women in important positions.
Mayor Ferre: Well I have just like you have, Mrs. Gordon and just like every
member of this Commission. And, of course, what we're trying to do now is
to shift the burden of the focus of the spotlight on the Civil. Service Reform
to put everything to blame on the Manager. And we're going to take the Man-
ager as a whipping boy and whip him here. But you see....
Mrs. Gordon: Well the Manager deserves to be whipped in that regard because
the Manager erred in a very important roll that he was given to play and
that was to implement Affirmative Action and that includes women, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: After we finish the changes on the rules of the Civil Service
Board one way or the other I will recognize you to publicly whip the Manager.
In the meantime, we're not going to take any diversionary tactics to shift the
focus from one position to the other. Now one may be right and I will not
deny you the right to castigate and publicly whip the Manager but I'm certain-
ly not going to do it at a time when we are confronting a serious issue and
:we're not going to get away from focusing on that issue - that is the Civil
Service Rules.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Manager, have we increased the percentage of minorities in
employement with the City of Miami in the last two and a half, three years?
Mr. Grassie: Yes, sir, we certainly have.
Rev. Gibson: All right,
workers?
are they the permanent employees or are they CETA
Mr. Grassie: Both. Of course, we have much more flexibility in the CETA
Program and in that case virtually all of the new employees have been minori-
ties. In the case of Civil Service covered positions and which we have many
more restrictions on us the percentage increase has been much more modest but
we have had some increase.
Rev. Gibson: You're telling me that the percentage of increase in minority
hirings is by and large CETA employees, is that what you're telling me?
Mr. Grassie: What I'm telling you, Commissioner, is that we have.had`an in-
crease in both categories but since we are circumscribed, we're really re-
stricted in the Civil Service hiring our improvement there has been much less
than is the case in CETA but we count those two things differently and separ-
ately.
Rev. Gibson: Okay, let me ask it the other way. You know, I believe that
any time you want to purauade people to moderation,one of the things you do
is you act, you perform. Again let me ask this, and I'm sure of all the Com-
missioners up here I speak pretty good English - or maybe I need to word it
differently. You have said to us that the percentage of increase in employ-
ment among minorities has increased, you're saying yes to that.
rt
MAY 2 4 1979
Mr. Grassie: Yes.
Rev. Gibson: All right, tell me this: Has the percentage in minority empl.oy-
ment other than CETA increased appreciably meaning 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%?
Mr. Grassie: Well, I'd have to refer back to the reports that we produce regu-
larly for you, Cortunissioner, to give you the specific answer but certainly the
increase has not been of the nature of 20% since we have not had the kind of
turn over that would make that possible but it has been I think appreciable
within the context of the number of opportunities to hire that the City has
had. It has been a significant increase when you consider how many opportuni-
ties we've had.
Rev. Gibson: Okay, do it the other way. Mr. Krause, you've got that report?
Do you have the written report? I don't want no word of mouth because 1 could
contradict you, you could contradict me. What I'm trying to say is upon that
will depend, that will show me act of good faith, you know, that you really
meant business, that you pushed on, pushed forward. Note what is being said.
You know I took the same kind of position, do you remember when we were try-
ing to find that money, do you remember that? I said, well man, let's cut
the rubber cord or the nave]. cord or whatever that is and get an impartial
somebody. What I'd like to see, I asked this question earlier. I said, you
see I'm not going to deal with minority you know, I'm going to deal with
blacks. How many black people have you hired and what capacity? I raised
that question. I raised it before, you called Yourself giving me a report
and now, you know. I want to be specific, that will tell me whether or not
time is on my side or time is not on our side, whether we ought to vote or
not vote. You see, what I'm trying to say, Mr. Krause, so when you answer,
.
if all the percentage increase is CETA workers note that within a few days
they're going to be gone and I just want to make sure that nobody thinks any-
body is being fooled up here nor the wool is being pulled over anybody's eyes,
I say to my fellow friends, and the unions are my friends, my brother and and
sister, you've got to change your way of performance man, you know - one way or
the other. You've got to change it• Now I raised this question before, I
asked Mr. Padgett, I said you know $10,000,000. Do you want the City to lose
the $10,000,000 or you want to keep it? Do you remember that? Let me get the
report so what is that expression, black and white don't lie. Okay? Let
rri
Mr. Krause:Mr. Mayor, e/thers of the Comm"s sion, the figures that I have
here from the last Affirmative Ac-tion Progress Report indicates that black
employment in the City increased from 28% to 31% from 1977 to 1978.
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Krause:
Mayor Ferre:
What percentage increase is that, is that about 10%?
It's 3 percentage points, it's about 10% of....
Oh no, from 28 to 31 the way I couni t t is a 10% increase
Rev. Gibson: What was that?
Mr. Krause: It's three percentage points, it is about 10% of the total black
employrnent.. Most of that was in CETA employment
Mayor Ferre: No, no, that's not his question, why don't you answer the ques-
tion. Forget CETA employment, what the man is trying to find out is how many
minorities, how many blacks, how many women have been hired by the City of
Miami. Obviously he's not asking you as to whether or not we forced people
out to replace them with minorities, we can't do that. Of the opportunities
available you have had 112 vacancies and he wants to know and I want to know
of 112 or 34 or whatever number of vacancies how many people of the people
that have been hired have been black, how many have been women and how many
have been Latins. Did I understand right?
Rev. Gibson: That's where you cut the mustard! That's right.
Mayor Ferre: We're talking about not CETA employees, we're talking about
regular employees.
Mr. Kaplan: Mr. Mayor, while Mr. Krause is looking that up may I call Mr.
Krause's attention to a letter he wrote on May 9, 1979 respecting the people
that I represent, the firefighters of this City. "This is to confirm the in-
formation - this is addressed to Mr. Padgett - this is to confirm the informa-
tion that I provided to you by telephone concerning the composition of the
02
rt
MAY 2 4 1979
Fire Department's latest recruit class. The class began employment with
the City on May 7, 1979. There were 31 new fire fighters in the class, of
this total 8 were black males, 10 were Latin Males and 13 were Anglo males.
The Fire Department has thus achieved an appointment ratio of 58% for minor-
ities compared to a goal of 56 established under the Consent Decree. The
distribution between blacks and Latins in this class represents a better re-
flection of the City's labor market than.has been achieved previously.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Kaplan, when I first came on this Commission - Charlie, you
were involved in that, you guys brought some people down from the national
union, do you remember that? And you guys put on probably one of the best
programs in Minority recruitment that this City has ever done and I brag about
it all the time, every election and otherwise. I was bragging about the won-
derful recruiting job that we have done. The figures in those days were that
there were, as I recall, eight black fire fighters, we had increased to eight,
we had three, it went up to eight. How many do we have now?
Mr. Kaplan: Sir, this is in one class. This is the class that entered the
Fire Academy.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, right, and I'm telling you that I've been hearing that
story for five years and I just wantto know how many blacks.....,
Mr. Kaplan: What story, that the Fire Fighter's Union and the Fire Departnent
have met the. Consent Decree?
Mayor Ferre: No.
Mr. Kaplan: What story have you heard, Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Ferre: If you'll let me answer I'll tell you.
Mr. Kaplan: There's terrible sarcasm in your voice, Mr. Mayor. All I've done
is make a motion on behalf of the Fire Fighter's Union to have the City live
up to its agreement that it will let;. the court decide whether what Mr. Krause
has proposed is necessitated by the Consent Decree. That's all, that's all
I've asked.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Kaplan, I promise not to interrupt you if you don't inter-
rupt me. All I was trying to say was that every year I hear about the tremend-
ous number of black and Latin Fire Fighters that are going to be incorporated
into the system, that the class has one third black, one third Latin and one
third this and women'and all but the facts are that I would like to know how
many - just to take one category - black fire fighters there are today in the
end of May of the year 1979. Do you have those figures?
Mr. Krause: I don't have those figures current, Mr. Mayor.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, that's just the point. When I asked several months`.
ago •,
Mr. Plummer: The verysimple question that is being asked for, we are pumped
with tons and tons of paper yet:. the simple question which is to the point, the
most important key that is being asked - we ain't got that one.
Rev. Gibson: J. L.,;,for the benefit of the public I asked that question
months ago and you know, 1 got the same report that you all are tugging with
and it just didn't jive out for me and I thought maybe my English was bad.
Okay?
Mr. Krause: This report which is dated. February 28, 1979, there were 16 black
fire fighters and 50 Latin fire fighters.
Mayor Ferre: Tell me again.
Mr. Krause: Sixteen black and fifty Latin fire fighters or superior officers:
There are a few people who have been promoted to Fire Lieutenant and I believe
one to Fire Captain.
Mayor Ferre: In other words, let me understand this, as of
18 black fire fighters - 16, I'm sorry.
Mr. Krause: That was as of February, that number has to be increased by the
eight who were hired two weeks ago.
rt
MAY 2 4 lag
Mayor Ferre: Do you have a figure of how many we had four or five years ago?
Mr. Krause: Not with me, no.
Mayor. Ferre: As I4recall it was eight. Let me ask you about the Police ;De
partment. How many black policemen `do"we have today?
Mr. Krause: I'm sorry, I do have the figure. ;'In 1975 there were 10 black
fighters so it;. increased from 10 to 16 in a period of four years.
fire
Mayor Ferre: So with all of our Affirmative Action and all of our positive
recruits and all of our campaigns and; all of our tri-ethnic efforts and $300,000
expended and all ofthe things that we've, done we have increased six.
Mr. Kraty.se: Yes, sir.
Mrs. Gordon: We've: decreased our total force too, Mr. .Mayor, we don't have
as many employees in either orie of those two departments as we had at that
point.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Krause, we have increased in five years
it - six black officers, is that correct?
Mayor Ferre: Police Officers?
as I understand
Mr. Krause:". No, fire fighters, sir.
Mr. Plummer: I thought it was the Police Department. All right, in the Pc -
lice Departxnerit five years ago how many black police officers did we have?
Mr. Krause: I.have 'a figure from four years ago that therewere
the uniform service of the Police Department.
Mr. Plummer:
Mr. 'Krause:
And what is it now?
77.
92 black .in.
Mr. Plummer: 77? So we've gone down 15, is that correct? And all of the
efforts that have been done, all the moneys that have been spent, all of the
departments that have been created we're now showing a minus fiure.." gPersu-
ing that policy,the more we spend the morewe do,the "less we'll have. Now,
the question I have to ask of you, Mr. Krause,' at any time have you developed
a figure of how many black officers have retired as normal retirement, how
many black officers have graduated from the Academy, how many black officers
were put into the Academy but for some reason did not pass? Is there a dif-
ferent set ofcircumstances that is not being said? Would you give methose
figures?
Mr. Krause: I don't have those figures currently.,'
Mr. Plummer: Would you give me' the figures in the last four years
black officers have been hired or put on the job?,
how many<
Mr. Krause: We have those figures in the the files,°:I just simply brought as
much as Icould carry with me today, .sir, ';I don't have everything
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, if .I may, I`"would like to get back to what I think,
is the sense of any rnotion that must be dealt with first and that of Mr. Kap-
lan, and I;' think all of these facts andfigures arewelland good and we can
all. put forth our philosophy and what we think and why we don't think. Mr.
Knox, the question really resolves to you, sir, that is did you in behalf of
this City enter into an agreement as perported by Mr. Kaplan giving the right
to the grieved parties to mediate this in the court? Inotherwords, is. what
Mr. Kaplan, is saying correct that anagreement that you entered into in be
half of the City gives them this right to, have this hearing on June 1? And
I think really that's the motion thatmust be dealt with first.
Mr. Knox: The question essentially is yes, there was an agreement in July.
The essential question as far as we're concerned is whether or not that agree
ment was open ended and I' think that.a recapitulation of the significant dates
might be appropriate. The agreement was entered into between the City Attor-
ney's Office and the representative of the Fire Fighters' Collective Bargain-
ing Unit in July. It was September when a motion to intervene was filed on
behalf of the Fire Fighter's Union in the federal court. I might explain
rt
34
lAY 2 4 197
also that a motion to intervene is nothing more than seeking permission of
the court to become a party to a lawsuit. A full six months after the City's
agreement with the Fire Fighters, Mr. Kaplan read from a letter that I wrote
addressed to Mr. Krause, Mr. Mielke, Mr. Kaplan and Mr. Don Teems of the Fire
Department indicating that by virtue of the concern which was expressed by
the Justice Department and by virtue of the fact that the court really didn't
have anything before it upon which to rule and by virtue of the fact that the
court obviously was not disposed to attach a sense of urgency in terms of the
litigation to the claims that were made by the Fire Fighters in their papers
and by virtue of the fact that a full six months had elapsed since the agree-
ment with the Fire Fighters our determination was inasmuch as it was affected
there was no court order nor any legal precedent which would preclude the City
Commission from adopting the rules, that it was about time the City Commis-
sion do so. One sentence in this letter that I wrote to the agrieved parties
was omitted by Mr. Kaplan and I'd like to read that into the record: "I fur-
ther note that the court did indicate upon its records that it would not en-
gage itself in the business of running the City. There is no court order nor
is there any proceding nor is there any legal precedent in the City Attorney's
Office that would preclude the City Commission from adopting the rules at this
time."
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Knox, I have a further question on that line. That is on
the record now I'm asking for a legal opiriion. Is there anything that would
legally preclude from this. City Commission doing it's job in taking up the
recommendation of the Civil Service to adopt new rules and regulations for
the Civil Service?
Mr. Knox: No, sir, the procedure for amending the Civil Service Rules and
Regulations provide that a recommendation shall be made by the Civil Service
Board and the City Commission shall consider an adoption, the adoption of an
ordinance which would implement those recommendations.
Mayor Ferre: And furthermore, Mr. Knox, if the City of Miami Commission does
vote in favor of the adoption of these new Civil Service Rules would you as
the City Attorney feel as our lawyer that you can sustain the legality of
these new rules before the challengethat will come in court by the unions
and other parties that might be affected?
Mr. Knox: In the first place, the City Attorney's Office has approved these ..
rules as to form and correctness and because of the extraordinary nature of
the controversy we are exceedingly comfortable that if the City Commission
adopts these rules that they will withstand any challenge.
Mayor Ferre: In your opinion then they are legal.
Mr. Knox: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferrer And in your opinion they do not, that this is within the purview
of the City Commission's function?
Mr. Knox: Yes, sir, and that they are specifically designed to implement the
Consent Decree and the Court Order which followed the Consent Decree by a
federal judge.
Mayor Ferrer And as the legal officer of this City, you feel that this also,
is in accordance with the request of the Justice Department and the voluminous
correspondence and records that have been going on between us for years.
Mr. Knox: Yes, sir.
Rev. Gibson: May I ask a question of counsel? Both of you. What will, if
somebody could straighten me on this I will be in a position to take sides,
as if I want to take sides, I will if you don't straighten me. What is the
court going to do on the first of June that would prohibit us Commissioners
who are the legally constituted body from doing that we cannot do now.
Mr. Kaplan: May I answer that, Mr. Commissioner?
Mr. Knox: Excuse me, Mr. Kaplan.
Rev. Gibson: No, you know what they taught me up here? You know what they
taught me up here? Said don'•t:care what nobody out there tell me I've got to
listen to what the guy overthere tells me who I pay. Now you tell me.
111111111111111111111111
'35
MAY 2 4 1979
Mr. Knox: Yes, sir, the answer to your question in my opinion is that there
is nothing that the court would do at it's hearing on June 1st that would
preclude this City Commission from taking any action today and further I am
assured or at least the record reflects that the only thing that the court
will be considering is the motion to intervene on behalf of the Fire Fighters
and I might indicate to you further that if the court grants that motion, and
it is not likely to or at least we would make arguments against its granting
that motion, if the court grants that motion and accepts the complaint that
is attached to that motion then we're talking about another time situation in
that the City would have to respond to the complaint by filing an answer or a
motion to dismiss, there would have to be a hearing on that. If the motion to
dismiss is denied the City would have an opportunity to file an answer, fol-
lowing the answer there will be another hearing and following that hearing
the court could determine whether or not it is necessary to have a trial and
take evidence. Following that the Court would issue an order, following that
there will be an appeal from that order and we're talking about the same five
year period of time that has elapsed thus far.
Mr. Kaplan: I respectfully disagree with Mr. Knox, I call Mr. Knox's atten-
tion to the fact that the motion for intervention carries with it a complaint
in intervention and a prayer for relief which reads as follows on page 6:
"Wherefore, Local 587 prays that this court provide the following relief: (1)
Issue a declaration of the rights of the parties, (2) Issue a temporary and
permanent restraining order restraining the City of Miami from voting or ap-
proving any ordinance or amendments to the Rules and Regulations of the City
of Miami Civil Service Board without prior hearing and order of this court"
and additional remedies we've sought. Now I suggest to you only one thing,
what we did when we sat down with Mr. Knox and other officials including Mr,
Krause and representatives of the Manager's Office last July was before there
had been any thought that there was going to be an approval of Civil Service
Board Rules and Regulations we said, "Well, how are we going to resolve •these
things in the future?" and this is the procedure that we agreed to and we are
seeking from the court an injunction to prevent the passage of it. That's
the answer to your question, Commissioner, what will occur on June lst. /
would assume the court would rule upon this or give us some indication of
when he could rule on it. I have no idea, there is no way to control what
the judge is going to do.
Mayor Ferre: I would answer that with Governor Graham's statement yesterday,
"You'd better do some more praying".
Rev. Gibson: Let me ask this, let me ask more praying. If I heard what I
heard from the letter - counsel, because you all are not sayingthe same thing -
listen to this: The City Attorney read a letter which said in substance from
the judge, "I do not wish to run the City for you". Isn't that what it -
. No, he was his
ttet1 own
letter.... - letter,
Mr. Kaplan:the letter!
Mr. contained
Rev. Gibson: Counsel,
m his not the judge'sinMr.
Kaplan:that's
He wasreading froietter. stthat was issue
mr. Knox's that, the language1 .udgemen
Mr. that
Knox: Knox's ].etter was taken
from the face of the d
in this. case. 1 suggest
Mr. Kaplan: . I want this answered'
. Wait a minute,
Yes, may: to Yo • it true us?
Isn't0... ,,,i for
Rev. Gibson' that the judge doNeoewn,oltewtimseh atoskruthnisth'e**C.ity 1 1.12.7 that that
is
letter. says d to say.lette all 1 wanted letter? Let me read You one sentence'. of hls
That's you the attorney
Mr. Kaplan:
evGiCan
yoil omittedman , that's what happened t the lasttlin letter.
the
sRaid. triba...tson:No'lookone of the
most
significant
sentences
Read the"' together.
Mr.. _Okay, I'll
paragraph one.
amendMents to the Rules
a substantial PeriOd. of
read them together. I'm reading from the middle of
that the question of the propriety of the proposed
and Regulations has been before the federalcourt for
time but the court has not to this date scheduled a
rt
36
MAY 2 4 1970
hearing nor issue d ruling concerning the various motions that have been filed
by the Fire Fighters. I further note that the court did indicate upon its rec-
ord that it would not engage itself in the business of running the City. In
light of the urgency that is attached to the expression of concern by the Jus-
tice Department and of the fact that the court has not made a ruling to this
date I am constrained to suggest that the City Commission consider the adop-
tion of the proposed Civil Service Rules and Regulations in carrying out its
obligations under the Consent Decree unless you jointly and severally suggest
an alternative course of action. At the time this letter was written we didn't
have a June 1st date but Mr. Knox clearly said as one of the reasons for his
suggestion that action be taken and I might suggest I would agree with Mr.
Knox if we weren't facing a June 1 date. If I get a ruling from the court
that the court will deny my motion to intervene because to the grounds we
raised we raised I'll be back with you discussing the merits of the amendments.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Kaplan, we've had Reverend Conrad Willard who, has been here
patiently, I think we're about to lose •im in a moment, and -I: would like to
recognize people that have been sitting here waiting to make a statement.
Mrs. Gordon: I have a motion,: Mr. Mayor, would you recognize me for
a motion?
Mayor Ferre: I don't think we're at a point. of making motions' and; the chair
does not recognize anybody for the purposes of a motion. Now, if you want to
you can make a statement if you wish but I'm not going to recognize your mo-
tion <at this point because we're not through.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, I"don't believe that it's within your prerogative to
prevent me: from offering a motion. I move that this matter be deferred until
June 1st at 1:00 O'Clock in the afternoon.
Mayor,Ferre: Mr. Knox, I;' think under the rules of order that we operate under
the Chair is entitled to not recognize a member of this body for this purposes
of a motion until the Chair determines that everybody has had their full say.
Mr. Knox: It is the prerogative of the Chair to recognize individuals for
any purpose, Mr Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Well, :I do not recognize Mrs. Gordon for the purposes of making.;
a motion. Now if you want to question that you could ask the City Attorney
if you have the right to make that motion over my lack of recognition of you
for that purpose. Now, you can make a statement. Commissioner Lacasa?
Mr. Lacasa: Mr. Mayor,'members of the Commission, what we are facing here is
a question that has been before this Community not only before this Commission
but before this community for several years. We have been a tri-ethnic com=
munity and the only way that this City government can function is by having,'
the credibility and the respect of this community. This is achieved only "by:
facing our responsibilities. The question before us now, I am going to ad-
dress a procedural question before we discuss the substance of this matter.
The City Attorney has stated very clearly that there is absolutely nothing
that precludes this Commission today to hear and to make a decision on this
question not item one of the agreement with the Fire Fighters and not even
the scheduled hearing by the federal court. Furthermore, I want to submit
to you the fact that what we are discussing here today is the First Reading
of an ordinance. Even if the hearing is scheduled for June 1st were to have
any bearing whatsoever on this discussion that we are going to have here to-
day we still have a Second Reading to go so the question is totally and com-
pletely academic. I would say that this Commission faces this responsibility
today. We have no legal deterent to take on the issue and we owe this to
this community and' by that I mean the tri-ethnic community, not only the blacks,.
not only the Latins, not only the minorities being male, female or whatever,
the whole community. So I suggest that we proceed with the substance of this
question.
Mayor Ferre: All right, I'm going to recognize Dr. Conrad Willard unless.
You raise for what purpose?
Mr. Don Slesnick: Mr. Mayor, I would like to just take one to two
I. must leave and.I do represent a'large 'number ofyour employees.";
Mayor Ferre: Dr. Willard, would you mind if we -"this is the only one
tion and then I'll take you after that. Go ahead.
ko
excep-;
VIAY 2 4 197i
rt
Mr. Don Slesnick: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, I'm Don Slesnick, 2285 S.W. 17th
Avenue, the attorney for the Sanitation Employees Association. I think the
problem here today is that we are getting far in left field. We are not. here
to discuss Affirmative Action or EEO, what we are here to discuss are changes
to the Civil Service System of this City. That's the problem. I represent
the largest number of minority employees the City of Miami has, specifically
black employees and those who are not black are mainly Latin and I can tell
you that I come here to say to you today that the Sanitation Employees Assoc-
iation absolutely and without hesitation opposes the passage of these changes
to the Civil Service Ordinance and to the Civil Service Rules and Regulations.
The fact is if Mr. Knox and others who would do what they're are about to do
to help minorities would stop and take a look at what they're about to do
they're helping I guess one set of minorities to the exclusion of others, i.e.
your employees who are already here who have worked for you a good many years
and long hours and have given of their own lives and sweat to work for the
City of Miami, they come: before you: to tell you today that they dori't care
about what might happen in federal court next week or the week after that,
you have a contract with them, a contract that is signed by this City with
that association saying that thou shalt not change these without negotiations
and Mr. Knox sits over there and says he sees no reason why you shouldn't ap-
prove these changes. He sees no legal compunction why Le should suggest to
you that you should hesitate from approving these changes and I'm telling you
Mr. Knox had better' read the City's contracts because that contract is speci-
fic and clear that it adopts as part, and parcelthe Rules and °Regulations of
the Civil Service Board as they stand today. Now, I'll say this and then I'll
leave as I promised,;I was only here for a short moment, but when it comes
time for the Second Reading if you should make the mistake of passing it the
First'. Reading we will take on Mr. Squire Padgett in all due respect to his
ability as an attorney, there are many mis-statements of fact in his letter
and interpretation of the ].aw whether he's from the Justice Department' or
whether he's from the. City "of Miami Legal Department people, sometimes inter-
pret the law as they see it and that's what Mr. Squire Padgett has done in
his letter which was the basis for these changes.
Mayor1erre: That will all be determined I'm sure in court and the only com-
ment that 1 have to that is simply to quote Father Gibson when Knox got on
this in this City's payroll as City Attorney he said, "MY Brother, don't you
pull the ladder; up behind `>you".`
Mr. Slesnick:
just that.
Well, I'in afraid about 500 Sanitation workers think he'
Mayor Ferre: Well, . you
for Father Gibson. but I.
ladder up because there
There, are ::a lot more to
that....
go tell the Sanitation, Workers that - I'm not speaking`
'm speaking for myself - that I'm not about to pull the
happen` to be 500 workers in the Sanitation Department.
the' future of Affirmative Action in the Caty of Miami`
Mr. Slesnick: Mr.'Ma or, there is no y group that has supported
Action -Program more aggressivelY than the SEA.
Mayor Ferre:
any Affirmative
Mr. Slesnick: And as you know, this is the only union that went tocourt to
support the Consent Decree and fought the FOP and`foughtother unions that
were opposed to the essentials -of. the Consent'Decree. The SEA went there to
support everything that the City wanted to do.`
Mayor Ferre: After you I'm going to recognize Dr Conrad Willard,:I
want to hold him up any longer:
Mr. Lacasa: I'd like to ask a question. I'ao respect, recognize and acknow-
ledge the right of the community because they do have a vested interest" ,
but I wou]d like to remind you all that this is not a question that pertains
unly to unions and to those who have the good fortune of being. now employees
of the City of Miami. This also was of interest to those who are on the out-
side andwho want to become employees of the City of Miami and have been de-
prived of tnat opportunity because of the existing regulations. So when we.
discuss this matter we want to hear the unions but we also should hear from
those who want to be a part of the City of Miami and have those opportunities.
Mayor Ferre: Reverend Conrad Willard is recognized from the Central Baptist
Church, he is here representing the Community "Relations Board. Dr. Willard,
with my apologies.
rt
MAY 2 4 197a
41/
Dr. Conrad Willaxdrd' Your honor, Mr. Mayor, and honorable Commissioners, my
name is Conrad Willard and I am Vice -Chairman of the Community Relations
Board. I was requested by the Executive Committee of the Community Relations
Board to represent the Community Relations Board before you this afternoon.
I am here to speak on the issue of equal opportunities for minorities and
wcnnen in the City of Miami and most specifically your tabled proposed Civil
Service Rule changes. I appreciate the concern the City Commission has as to
whether or not these proposed revisions to your. Civil Service Rules would
negate the purpose of why you have a Civil Service System. I appreciate the
interest you have to pursue the objectives of the federa] Civil Right:, Laws
and the City of Miami Consent Decree upon which these proposed revisions are
based. Since the Community Relations Board was formed in 1963 it has been
active in cooperating with the City of Miami and it's officials to further
community relations, one issue that we believe has great impact on community
relations in your City, our City, is the issue of equal opportunity and Affirm-
ative Action. This issue impacts upon the City of Miami as we know because
of its present tri-ethnic make-up and because of its history. We all know
that the City of Miami was birthed as a southern town with traditions, norms
and laws of the Old South. We all know that this past history was one of. rac-
,
ial segregation and discrimination', 'we do not need now to relate this past,
affected blacks in relation to representation and participation in politics
to their residential areas in our City and their employment. We also know
that in the past Miami as all other cities and institutions in the United
States practice discrimination against women including discrimination in em-
ployment because this was a part of our culture. The City of Miami was and
is the primary City in this nation to receive the influx of Cuban refugees
from the 60's until the present. But Miami has always had large populations
of other hispanic groups such as Puerto Ricans, Columbians and others. His-
panics we know as well as blacks and women are part of the affected classes
under the Civil rights Act who are to be protected under the equal opportun-
ity laws. Even before the Federal Civil Rights Act was passed the City of
Miami with cooperation of Dade County Community Relations Board began to seek
ways to foster mutual understanding among all groups and begin to tear down
segregation laws and practices. It ended the all black police district and
began integrating black police officers as equals. You were the first South-
ern City to elect a black to the City Commission and you have since elected
women to the City Commission. The tri-ethnic composition of your City Commis-
sion is fairly representative of the community. We now share the concern that
although racial attitudes, prejudices and any other direct discriminatory in-
tent are on their way of ending forever the systems of government that we have
instituted to carry out our functions still appear to maintain the results of
past discrimination. If one looks at the employment of the City of Miami and
all of it's departments at all levels and positions that tri-ethnic representa-
tion that we observe and praise in your Commission is not always present. The
Community Relations Board believes that the Civil Service System maintains
today the disadvantages to minorities'and women previously noted. The. Commun-
ity Relations Board, however, as you do supports the purpose of the Civil Ser-
vice System, we believe that the purpose of the Civil Service System is to
provide the best qualified work force for the City of Miami based upon merit
and without nepotism. We understand the history of the State of Florida and
of Greater Miami and it's rapid growth. The Civil Service System should be
changed and its rules and regulations remedied to reflect that growth and to-
day's realities rather than yesterday's traditions. The Community Relations
Board was first involved in the circumstances that came out of the Cohen Con-
sent Decree and played a roll in forestalling a countersuit by some Hispanic
police officers who did not know that the Cohen Consent Decree was to benefit
other minorities in addition to black police officers. Since 1973 we have
advised you that we are continuing to monitor your development of Affirmative
Action to assure equal opportunity for all minorities and women and the Com-
munity Relations Board Affirmative Action Committee in January of 1978 sent
a letter to Mr. Grassie, City Manager supporting his efforts. This past Oct-
ober the Dade County Community Relations Board had a forum on the question
of the employment of minorities and women in the City of Miami. The speakers
included Mr. Robert Krause, Director of Human Resources, Attorney Squire Pad-
gett Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division and Mr. Ted Nichols, Chair-
person, Florida Advisory Committee of the Civil Rights Commission. Among the
many auditors we invited included Mr. Donald March, President of your local
Fraternal Order of Police and Mr. Bakowsky of the Equal Employment Opportun-
ity Commission. After due discussion at. the forum the Executive Committee of
the Community Relations Board now recommends that the City of Miami Commission
brings from the table for the First Reading and approval the proposed ordinance
amending the Civil Service Rules,'tiiat you allow input and recommendations to
this proposed ordinance from the Community Relations Board and other inter-
ested agencies. The significance of some of the proposed rules such as number
rt
39
'MAY 2 4 1979
/-4
r
eight which replaces the principle of the rule of one in hiring and promoting
practices. The Rule of One in general determines that the Civil Service Board
will only certify from eligibility registers for each vacancy for hiring and
for promotion the name and examination grade of the person who scores the high-
est. It is our understanding that under the proposed new rule there will be
a procedure whereby the top five highest ranking candidates scoring on an exam-
ination would be certified, but if minorities and women are insufficient in num-
ber in these first five candidates the three highest scoring minority persons
and women_ from the eligibility register would also be certified to meet your
Affirmative Action goals. The Community Relations Board believes that change
will not negate quality as the persons need to successfully pass the exam and
at the same time address the needs of minorities and the goals of Affirmative
Action. Failure to`approve this revised Rule Eight would mean continued dissi-
pation of City of Miami funds in defending actions with the United States Jus-
tice Department in relation to the City of Miam's Consent Decree as well as
threaten all other federal grants-in-aid Programs. The Community Relations.
Board believes that in spite of opposition by employee organizations the City,
of Miami must approve these rules in their First Reading so that the legal
process may begin to educate all groups as to their responsibilities under the
federal laws and further promotion of Civil Rights as a tool for improving
community relations. Mr. Mayor, I; appreciate you giving me this time because
I do have another very important engagement to help Israel celebrate its 30th
Anniversary and I am deeply grateful for your letting me come on early to.
bring this report.
Mayor Ferre: Dr.. WillardI want to thank you for your presence here today
and I apologize again for having delayed you for several hours and 1 think it
is a very significant thing that today, Thursday the 24th day of May is the
celebration of the Anniversary of the Foundingof Israeland; it also happens
to be Ascension Day for those of us who are Christians. And 1 think they both
have, if you want to be philosophical, I; think there is significance in the
deliberations today because both as Jews and as Christians the aspirations of
people for Salvation:, or for upward mobility on this earth is something that
we're addressing at this time.
Dr. Willard: Thank youvery much, Mr. Mayor, I've been reminded that the
group in Miami not represented on your Commission" is aWASP.
only
Mr. Plummer:
Dr. Willard: But J. L. Plummer says he is, he's a White, Anglo-Saxon Politi-
cian so I'll accept him in that roll. Thank you again.
Mrs, Gordon: May I. ask you a question, Doctor, if you don't mind? I"know
you're acquainted with the rules because youquoted'" from:` one of them. Are you,
thoroughly acquainted with the, amount of power,. that; would be turned over to
one particular individual in our department head o
p f.Human Resources?
Dr. Willard: Commissioner Gordon, I'm not as well acquainted with all those
rules as you are, I'mI think. probably" asking for the First Reading, I imagine`
there would be some amendmentsor-some suggestions or changesbefore the final
approval of it by: this 'commission.
Mrs. Gordon: Doctor, I would like; you to know before you leave that I am no
opposed and certainly could notbe being a person of several minorities - I'm
Jewish and I'm a woman, at one time Jews were considered minorities. What,I'm
trying to say is that I am not opposed ;to -the minorities' being given equal op-
portunity, I'm always,fighting=;for: minorities and women to have equal.opportun-
ity. What I'm fighting is a politicalpower grab_which these sets ofrules
represent and I'm terribly opposed and terribly worried about the affect upon
this community when these rules are implemented and I would respectfully urge
that you read this so thoroughly that you can converse on each and every line
of it and come back to us and tell us then that you feel they are appropriate.
Dr. Willard: Yes, I will do that. The lawyer who, one of the lawyers who
serves on our CommunityRelationsBoard is concerned about this and as Chair-
man of the forum of the Community Relations Board I would'be; pleased to have
you come and explain some of these rules to our' forum, to our Community Rela-
tions Board and to the public.°
Mrs. Gordon: I would hate to have . todo
would be like you know, too late.
after the fact because then it
MAY 2' 4 NMI'
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Mayor Ferre: Doctor Willard, when that opportunity arises I would like to be
present end I think other members of this Commission and of this administration
might want to be present to counteract because the vision of this is that the
politics is really on the other side. This is one more stall that is guised
as something else for political purposes when, in effect, it is a blatant move
to disregard the true aspirations of women and minorities to upward mobility
within the City of Miami. I want to ask you before you leave, are you here
representing yourself-orare you here representing the Community Relations
Board?
Dr. Willard: No, I am here as Vice -Chairman of the Community Relations Board.
You had submitted to you the names of three other people I believe, the Chair-
man of the Board, Mr.;Ellegan and Mr. Murphy who is Chairman of. our Criminal
Justice Committee and Francine Thomas. You know on"a baseball °team when you
put in a substitute You're Putting in somebody that's not asgood as the or-
iginal hitter. When you put ina pinch hitter you're putting in somebody
that's better than the, guy that's supposed to be there, well I'm a substitute
todayI'm sorry to ,say for these three other people.
Mayor Ferre: Well
ter.
I think there's some question, I think you're -a pinch hit -
Dr. Willard: But I do represent the Community Relations Board, this, is an
official document of theirs.
Mr. Kaplan: Mr. Mayor, may I ask Dr. Willard a question? Dr. Willard, you
do know, don't you sir, my name is Joseph Kaplan and I represent the Fire
Fighters, you do know: do you not from the material that you have in your pos-
session that I met with Mr. Murphy and Mr. Simms and other representatives
of your organization' following the last time we were here on this same issue
and which I invited anybody who was interested in this matter to let us sit.
down to try to listen to our complaints with the proposed rules and regula-
tions and try and reach a compromise. You are familiar with the fact that I
did meet, express my' view, and that you folks were going to meet and call me
back to arrange a meeting between the Fire Fighters, other interested employee
groups and the City but that I'never was called back, isn't that a fact, sir?
Dr. Willard: Well, 'as Chairman of the forum,`if I"have any -clout at all'; with
that; Community' Relations Board,I sense the Mayor and some of the Commissioners
and you yourself wish. to, express yourself:"on this before the, public,, in:an
other' forum.. other, than the legalforum..that is here, I certainly will do all
I can to see that -that is arranged:
Mr. Kaplan: Were you here when the'Mayor invited,us to
solve our differences at, the last meeting?
meet and try to re -
sorry. Thank you again,
Mayor for this
Dr. Willard: I was not here, I'm Mr'
early appearance.
Mrs. Gordon:` Thank you for your. invitation, Doctor.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Reverend Kirtley, would you... Reverend Kirtley is
the Chairperson for the City's Affirmative Action Advisory Board and I -know.
you've got to go too.
•
Rev. Kirtley: No, we're not all in hurry, I appreciate it. I saw Affirma-
tive Action in practice a moment ago when you gave the minority group - the
Baptists - the opportunity to speak first and I'm grateful for that.
Mayor Ferre: I assume you're not Baptist by that statement.
Rev. Kirtley: Certainly I'm not. But I am interested in Affirmative Action.
I have served on the City Commission's Affirmative Action Advisory Board now
for approximately 4 years. We have felt somewhat like stepchildren. Mr.
Plummer called me one night and he asked me if I would accept his appointment
on this Board and in a weaker moment I said that I would and the moments got
weaker as time went by and somehow I ended up as President of this particular
Board and I'm not sure that I'm altogether prepared to serve in that capacity.
But, I want to say a number of things without a prepared statement with re-
gards to what I have heard here today. First let me say that I'm grateful
that I'm working with the board at my church rather than with you guys. They
don't always get along and agree either but I'll go back and be even more
thankful when I get there. I have
41
2 4 Iwo
rt
Mayor Ferre: I was astang Mr. Grassie whether he egret—.
Rev. Kirtley: Well, I have a certain identity with Mr. Grassie, also the
person that gets shot at when anything goes wrong.
W. Plummer: Yes, but Reverend the people in your church you can cast into
hell, here we just get re-elected.
Rev Kirtley: I have wanted to tall some of them to go to hell but I haven't
dared do so. This is being,recorded and I hope it is not shared with my Board.
We'veheard on numerous occasions from the lawyer for the Fire Fighters and I
don't know whether he disappeared when I stood up? Oh, there you are. Okay.
I appreciate your, I have to say tactics. You're interested in the Fire
Fighters and for that I'm grateful. But I really feel, and I say this also
to you, Mrs. Gordon, that this is a tactic to put this thing back in limbo
again. The judge that has just recently said that now he will hear this case
and he will make a decision was, and Mr. Knox has already indicated to you
and was indicated to us Months and months ago, he did not at that time want
to involve himself in making decisions for the City Commission or in running
the City of Miami. I don't see what has changed his feelings and why now he
is suddenly going to be able to make some judgement with regard to this case.
What can happen is that he waits for a while and we hang in limbo and nothing
is done. Now it's been since October of 1978 when we ofthe Affirmative Ac-
tion Advisory Board began reading minutely the proposed revisions to the,
Civil Service Rules. We had the old rules before us, we had the new proposals
before us, we went through them line byline and word by word. We did not,
all agree on what was said and we also expressed concern as Mrs. Gordon has
also expressed over the fact that there would be invested a greatdeal of
power in one person. ' However, as we became aware in continuing to study this
thing, Title VII protects the employee and places rather Stringent restric-
tions upon the behavior of the employer and it was our...opinion after weworked
through this with the help of Mr. Krause that this was not a hinderance to
the proposed revisions. ,Now, as I say, we have looked at this very minutely
and not a meeting has gone by Since October that we.have not again had this
before us in one manner or another. Now these •are,professional people that
are sitting on this board, we give our time and a lot of energy in attempting
to reaffirm Affirmative Action in the City of Miami. We are concerned at this
point that we're not moving ahead after this thing being before you, ladies,
and gentlemen, for a Year. You have received. some correspondence from me,.
-
each of you it was hand delivered to your office, asking for you to give con-
sideration on a.number of items that we felt were tremendously important., ,I'm
not sure that We've not heard directly from any of you, T wish that we had;
Mr. Grassiehas responded back tome with regard to Proper staffing, for the
Affirmative Action Office and we are tremendously concerned about that but'
don't think that 'matter is a thing that 'I can share with you at thiS,moment
but I do ask:fOr the priviledge to come back and shire that with you as soon
as possible., Now, we voted twice on the Civil Service Revisions and twice we
have affirmed by a majority that we support the revisions thinking that this
is the best instrument that we can come up with. Now if there is anybody in
this room that can come up with anything where everybody is going to agree
then he ought not to be here, he ought to be somewhere else because he's ac-
complished a miracle that's never been accomplished before. He would have
celebrated the Ascension today too. Now here we are again with this proposal
before us, Mr. Padgett has come to support the passage of this though in his
position he cannot say, "I recommend to you ladies and gentlemen, that you
pass this" but he did say that he thought this was a good proposal and,that
the Justice Department would accept it. The Justice Department has not brought
undue pressure against your board, I'M rather sorry that they haven't. 1
wish that they had been more definitive in saying you've got to do something
in order to put into practice your Affirmative Action Program. Now, there
are, as we understood it, two major difficulties among the unions with regard
to the adoption of these proposals: One was that they felt they were not in-
volved in consultations. I personally know that Mr. Krause did meet. Am I .
correct, Mr. Krause, you met with most all if not all of the employee unions
and went through these .proposals with them, explained them to them in as much
detail as time would allow? Again there were'some that did not feel that they
were adequately communicated with: You'll never communicate with everybody
who thinks they ought to be communicated. The second concern, Mrs. Gordon,
was the fact that it was vesting' a great deal of power but there is no way
that you can avoid giving someone. power. Someone has to be in ultimate author-
ity somewhere. Now this ,happens to fall'under the City Manager's jurisdiction
in a way but the ultimate respor;si)pility for the implementation of these changes
fall upon the Department ot Human Resources: I beg your pardon?
Mrs. Gordon: I said that's terrible.
MAY 2 4 WM
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42
Rev. Kirtley: Weir, we can't find any other way to solve that and someone
has to be responsible. Now you are feeling with some justification that
there may be some power grab. We have not found any indication and that
question also has been constantly before us. We have found no indication that
there is any movement for a power grab. At the same time we do express our
concern that power has in the past stood in the way of additional employment
and escalation upward for women, now we're tremendously concerned about that
and we do feel that there is a power jam up or log jam somewhere in that re-
spect but with the implementation of these proposed revisions we don't see IP
that that can happen, it will be monitored and it is supposed to be monitored
by the mandate that you gave us in ordinance 8725, that the Affirmative Action 11
Advisory Board will be monitoring these things - and we will be. Now if you
all don't ignore us, if you allow us some status and give us the priviledge •
and the responsibility and even allay the challenge or the mandate to come
back and report periodically to you the Affirmative Action Advisory Board will
accept that and be grateful for the responsibility. We move, if it is proper
to move, as a committee that these revisions be accepted. A. lot ofwork has
gone into them, -"I don't think anyone can come up with a perfect instrument and
we ask you ladies and gentlemen to move on this with your First. Reading today.
Mrs. Gordon: Excuse me Reverend Kirtley, may,I ask you a couple of questions?
Mayor Ferre: Thank you very much, Reverend Kirtley, I thank you for your being
here and sharing your thoughts with us, I'm tremendously impressed with your
knowledge and you have my; commitment and, in fact, you have my apology really
and then my commitment and "I would like to ask the Manager to schedule this
at the next meeting or the July Meeting at the latest for a full one hour dis-
cussion on the next agenda or the one after that and I'd like to ask any mem-
bers of your Affirmative Action Board if possible to be present for a real
open discussion of all the items that you would like to discuss.
Rev.-Kirtley: Mr...Mayor,;I can' assure you that they will be tremendously happy
to be here. We have felt neglected and as:a matter;: of fact several members
of our board are very close to resigning because, they don't feel that we're,
accomplishing what we're. supposed to do.
Mayor Ferre: You tell them
this isn't your opinion?
Rev. Kirtley:
:Iayor Ferre:
it?
to hold on: Reverend Kirtley, this was voted upon,.
This is not my opinion, this was
Did anymember of the Committee o
Rev.Kirtley:_: None of the public
union voted for it....
sector voted
Mayor Ferre: I'm talking about the public
the public sector.
Rev. 'Kirtley:'
Unanimous
voted upon by the Committee.
the public sector vote against
against it, one member of the
sector.
So it was unanimous from
Mayor Ferre: ..by all the people that were appointed by all the members of
this Commission that serve on that board. All right, thank you, sir.
Mrs. Gordon:. Reverend Kirtley; nowmay I ask you a question? _I; really.apprec-
iate your sincerity, your dedication, and;I want to thank you personally -for
the work you're doing and`L want to apologize for the fact that the board has
been mistreated and shunted aside and has not been actively involved in any-
thing with regard to Affirmative Action within the City. And again, I point
to the culprit, he's sitting at the end of the table, and nobody can tell me,
z can't believe that. it is possible that these rule changes will change the-".
personalities of the people who have' had: control and could have made these
changes in personnel come about over,the past three years and chose not to.
I would like you to be aware of the fact that from my observation within the``
employment of persons from the CETA ranks through the Human Resources Depart
ment there have been tremendous amounts of political intervention that has
taken place and when these rules are ;enacted there is no stopping what is going
to happen, believe me, as'far as patronage goes. There is just no way that
any rules that come out of Washington or anywhere else are going to have enough
clout or enough teeth to prevent what•is going to happen to this City of Miami.
Rev. Kirtley: Well, Mrs: Gordon, we certainly don't want to throw the baby out
with the bath water and this is the best instrument that we have and it's time,
we feel, that we move on it. Now you asked questions about employment, let me
it
.43
MAY 2 4 19»
mention one thing. _.„u wanted to know how many black- you presently have
employed, Brother Gibson, and you wanted to know how many women and all of
this, let me just mention to you that we do not have our Affirmative Action
Progress Report before us yet, it was supposed to have been before our Board
in January. 'You have a computer problem and the computer is either ill or
right at the point of death somewhere and I'm going to go over and lay my
hands on it as soon as I get a chance and cure it but we really need that
report and we could give you those figures with no hesitation had we received
that report but the computer has not given them to us..
Rev. Gibson: Before you leave, I hope the members of the Commission, Mr.
Lacasa was not here when we established the Affirmative Action Board, I beg-
ged the Commission to establish the Board and make the Board respond to the
Commission. Do you remember that? Everybody here was against it but Gibson.
Note what this gentleman is saying,this Reverend Clergyman is saying - you
shunt them aside, they feel that they have no sense of importance. I remember
the vigorous fight here to send it through the Manager. I have learned that
if you tell the truth you livelong enough to be a prophet. I still say that
that Affirmative Action ought to be an arm of. this Commission where it comes
in here directly and tell us what is and not let the management--- You know,.
if you did that you might have been much further on the way.
Rev. Kirtley: I would agree with you.
Rev. Gibson:
Right! No one wanted to listen to me.
Mayor Ferre: Well we're going to inaybe talk about that when you comeback
again with your board. Now at`this ':time, ' Jerry, as the Chairman of the Civil
Service Board.
Mayor, may I address a question`
Mayor Ferre: . No,please, Joe, look let's everybody have their chance and then
I'll recognize you for all you want. We've got Neil. Adams here who is going
to speak for the NAACP, we have the gentleman that represents SALAD and Jerry
and maybe Mr. Argues and tat's it. Okay?
Mr. Jerry Silverman: Mr. Mayor and members of the::Comniission, I'll take just.
one minute, I'm Jerry Silverman, I'm the Chairman of the Civil Service Board.
The Civil Service Board by a vote of 3 to 2 approved these after quite a bit
of study. We approved these about a year ago, we think it is time for you to
move on, that at least is my opinion. I"don't speak for the entire Civil Ser-
vice Board, as you can tell, the vote was three to two. The City has in the
past had discriminatory practices, I, don't think there is any question about
it. You must reform the Civil Service Rules if you want to make any progress.
Under the existing rules you will not make any progress. We've had years of
this situation and the only way to change the past discriminatory practices
is by reforming the rules. The Civil Service Board itself has put its money
where it's mouth is, we have a new Executive Secretary, she's a young black
lady who is qualified, highly qualified and we think by reforming the rules
the City can do the same thing. Before we approved these rules we gave it a
great deal of study. We had a legal opinionfrom the City Attorney's Office
that said this was proper, we didn't just pass these rules. As far as "Where
is the rush?" I heard that a year ago from Mr. Kaplan. Where is the rush when
something is happening in the court house, something is happening in the fifth
circuit, something is happening somewhere? Something is always happening but
nothing is happening here, it is time to move on, that's my opinion.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you, Mr. Silverman. Do you think this is a political
power grab or do you think that these rules have been carefully thought out?
Mrs. Gordon:
Mayor Ferree
Oh come on,
Maurice, this is funny.
Well, you've been asking that question.
Mrs. Gordon:,-It-'s a
Mayor Ferrel Well, I
he agrees with you....
Mrs. Gordon:
Mr. Silverman:
in between the
scenario because you know where Jerry is coming from.
want his opinion. I
want him to sayon the record whether.
Jerry, don't embarrass yourself because, that
s:ridiculous.`.
Well_ I'm not going to embarrass myself,'I;don't want to get,
two of You, I just feel that I would not have voted <for'these
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MAY 2 4 1a,1
rules if I thought!lat Walt the situation. I am committed to moving the
City along in the Affirmative Action Program. I think that this will accom-
plish it.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you for that answer. Mrs. Jackie Spence, and my apologies,
Mrs. Spence, for making you wait, and Neal, you're next. I'm sorry for having
Ms. Jackie Spence: Thank you. Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, my
name is Jackie Spence. I reside at 1270 N.W. 95th Street. I appear before
you today as a board member of the Greater Miami Branch of the NAACP represent-
ing our President, Dr. William Perry who is unable to attend this meeting. The
Greater Miami Brach of the NAACP endorses the proposed changes in the Civil.Ser-
vice Rules. We perceive these changes as a step in the direction of correcting
many of the inequities in the hiring and promotional practices of agencies in
the City government especially the. City Police Department. The Greater Miami
Branch of the NAACP requests that our elected Commissioners join ranks with
our Mayor by demonstrating fair and just treatment to all citizens through ap-
proving the proposed changes. We also wish to commend the Honorable Mayor
Ferre for endorsing the proposed changes. The action you take today shall be
noted by our membership. I ask you to individually search your consciousness
to make a decision that our people can be proud of, a decision that will enable
the employment force of this City to become more representative of the racial
composition of the City and a decision that will enable blacks and other minor-
ities opportunities for advancement by way of promotion. In other words we
are asking that you begin the process of making;' Miami a City that all of us,
can be proud of. I -.thank you.
Mayor Ferre:
Rev. Gibson:
Mr. Grassie:
Rev. Gibson:
Service?
Thank you very much.
Can somebody tell :me, does' the County have Civil Service too?
What is the difference between their Civil Service and our cavil
Mr. Krause: There are a number of differences, Commissioner, they exempt more
jobs from Civil Service than the City of Miami' does, they exempt division. chiefs
and above, they exempt some entire departments from Civil Service and they do
not have a Rule of One for promotions` as we do in the City of Miami. They.
also do not have a Civil'Service:Board. They have a Civil Service Advisory.,
Board which does not administer any of the, day to day activities, it does not
even hear appeals. The appeal procedure at the. County is by attorneys who,.
serve as hearing officers.The day to day administration of the Civil Service
System is administered by the personnel'directorfor the County not by a board.
There are probably other differences if I could think of them.: off hand.
Rev. Gibson: All right,how are their employees protected over against what
some of the fears are here over against ours'?
Mr. Krause: Essentially by.rules which are,. very similar to those that.are be-_'
ing proposed inthis ordinance and by:the"same kinds of federal law and federal:.
guidelines, that apply to the City of Miami that apply to the County that apply
to all:'private employers.
Mayor-Ferre: That's not his question. See, I think that the thrust of what
Father GibSoni has asked, and I think what Mrs. Gordon partially, as I under,,
stand it, is against is the ability of power being concentrated in your office
and I think his question was - you're a good man, I think we all accept that
or most of us anyway, but suppose a person were in your seat that were not a.
good person, that Mr. Jack Bond, yourself and Mr. Arauz, you would all lend
yourselves to manipulating and doing things that just weren't right. Now: what
is the protection other than firing all of you is there in the system that
would prevent that type of manipulation from going on?
Mr. Krause: The protections in the ordinance that are before you are stronger
than the protections that exist in the County's Civil Service System because.:
there the County's Civil Service Board is merely an advisory board. Under the'
rules that are pending before you the Miami Civil Service Board would continue
to have the same powers that it has under Rule XX at the present time which
is to investigate any allegation of abuse of power, to summon witnesses, to
take testimony under oath and to.make recommendations to the City Manager and
the City Commission for correction. There is also a new rule which prohibits
fraud which is something that is not even prohibited in the present Civil Ser-
vice Rules of the City of Miami. There is a specific additional rule to
rt 45
�}y
prohibit fraud and to ydpve the Civil Service Board of t.:ie City the authority
to investigate allegations of fraud and to take action if it finds it.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Krause, do you think that the unions would be more upset if
we were to adapt the County rules, would that be worse for them?
Mr. Krause: it's hard to say, Mr. Mayor, my impression is that there is a
great reluctance on the part of the unions to see any change because any change
seems to be threatening.
Mayor Terre: Well perhaps maybe what we ought to do and I'll ask them, is
maybe we ought to adapt the County rules, that might be the thing for us to
do.
INAUDIBLE
RESPONSE FROM AUDIENCE
Mayor Ferre: See, there's your answer. Okay.
Mr. Lacasa: Mr. Mayor, I am ready to make a motion.
Mayor Ferre:`,
have....
I'm sorry I cannot recognize you at this time
ou've got another five hours.
because we do
Mr. Plummer: Y
Mayor Ferre: No, we have anotherspeaker. We have Neal Adams who has been
sitting patiently here. So Commissioner Adams, thank .you for your patience
and I apologize for making you wait. And then Mr. Brake. Who sent me this
message? You did.
Commissioner Neal F. Adams: Mr. Mayor and Commissioners, thank you for giving
me this opportunity. -Iwant tosay in support of your ordinance at least. on
First Reading that it is very very important to you Commissioners to have this.>
necessary vehicle where that you may have the discretion of change if you see
fit. We are having in 1980 the National Association for the Advancement of
Colored People which has never in 70 years had a convention in Florida and we
would feel justly proud that if we could look over the activitiesof our now
modern City government and say that we know that Affirmative Action is working
well. I do want to respect and work with all the unions and in between - I
don't know what you all do and I'm not going to anticipate, it's your power,
I'm not suggesting anything but should you move on First Reading today in
between I would like to sit down with the unions if they have some disagree-
ment and see if we can work it out because we respect the unions and we re-
spect the gains that they have made and I don't want to be a part of destroy-
ing them. But you need this vehicle and you need it now and I know that the
NAACP will appreciate you taking a step forward. You know that I've been here
a long time and I remember when the skeleton was in the old court house across
the street from the Dade County Court House and they said it was a black skele-
ton and things were rough then. That was rough days, and you've come a long
way. All I ask now is that we move ahead forward because I believe believe
that we're going to have if we don't already have, the most fascinating City
in the world and this is a step in the right direction.
Mayor Ferre: All right, thank you very much, Mr. Adams. The next speaker
will be Mr. Bray or Mr. Arques, either one.
Mr. Javier Bray: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, I will be.
very brief. I think that we have heard many good reasons why different groups,
agencies that have studied the problem of Affirmative Action in the City of
Miami are recommending you to move ahead and adopt the modifications to the
rules of Civil Service. The Civil Service Commission itself has voted in
favor of changing these rules, now it is up to you. You are the only body
with the vested authority to make those changes and make it enforceable in
the future. You also have the power, and this particularly, Mrs. Gordon, to
some of the questions that you have been addressing, there's a checks and bal-
ance that is built in by the existence of the Civil Service Board to monitor
the Department of Human Resources and the enforcement of the new regulations
of the ordinance that you may be able to pass now. There are two major argu-
ments, one is to protect the merit system itself, that I haven't heard from
the other side, mention of this specific subject but I dare to say that be-
cause of the delays in the hiring procedures now you are missing, you are
losing many of the better qualified candidates because if you review of many
applicants that come in to the City'of Miami that cannot wait two and three
months until the vacancy is'finally filled because of the procedures that are
MB
46
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YAY 2 4 1271
410
now implemented th.- would be very well taken care o by the professionals
in the Human Resources Department rather than having those administrative
functions in the Civil Service Board. I think that is a division of power
there that has to be made. Second of all, the kind of thing that you have
been hearing from the side of the unions, and I wish that the time will come
when the unions will also endorse Affirmative Action as strongly as they did
probably many years ago when the word didn't even exist but a time will come
and some of us will see it. But all that we have seen is delaying tactics,
delaying tactics here as well as delaying tactics and taking the City to
court many many times over since the enforcement of the Consent Decree. I
think that you need to resolve this matter by changing the rules so that this
basis of going to court with every promotion and with every appointment of
minorities or people that they just don't approve of can be resolved once and
for all. Just review the record of how many times you have been taken to
court and delayed in action to hire qualified individuals.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you, Mr. Bray. I'd like to recognize Mr. Hill and Mr.
Powell that are also here from the NAACP, gentlemen, I thank you for your
presence here and your participation. Mr. Jack Alfonso.
Mr. Jack Alfonso: My name is Jack Alfonso, my office is at 3501 S.W.8th
Street. Mr. Mayor, I'm here as part of the segment of this community, a minor-
ity group, Latins. You have the opportunity in front of all of you to make a
drastic change in the structure of hiring in this City. I beg you to imple-
ment this change and I recognize here we have to learn, the Latins have to
learn a lot from the blacks who are represented here by different groups and
we are taking for granted many conquests that they had in the past and we
take it for granted the many things we do now here, and thanks to the fact,
and I've personally recognized this many times with Father Gibson, and this
is the moment and the real issue s not if the City Manager is going to have
some power or not, this is not the issue, he is a man who can be here or can
not be here but this change is going to be here for the best of everyone. So'
I beg you to implement these changes.
Mayor Ferre: All right, thank you very much.
speakers other than the unions?: All "right.
Mr. Manuel Argues: My name is Manuel Argues, 9137 Fountainbleu Blvd. As you
all are aware I was a member of the Civil Service Board for two and a half
years and after we worked many long hours and many days to try to make this
change which I think is going to be for the benefit of everyone in the City
of Miami not only for the minorities, for everyone because since 1936 when
these rules and regulations were made on the Civil Service Board a lot of
things happened in this City and I hope that the structure that we have now
and the changes that we are going to make or I hope that the City Commission
will make will be for the benefit of the City of Miami. Let me talk about
some figures because probably that will be for the benefit of everyone here.
For example, in 1978 53-54% of the black and female Anglos were employees of
the City of Miami. Now it's 44.9, so there has been a small difference but
not enough in the minorities groups and the blacks male and females in 1977
was 29.1, now it's 31.8 so the difference is only two points. Now the Hispanic
Americans male and female in 1978 is 22.2 against 17.4 two years ago so really
there hasn't been too much change. What is amazing is that in minorities in
the classification of payrolls between 5,000 and 50,000 is where there is the
heavy percentage which speaks very clear about the participation that the
minorities have on the salary range over $15,000. For example,.in the range
from 5,000 to 15,000 there were in 1977, I don't think there have been too
many changes, 774 white male and female Anglos. That is in the range 5,000
to-15,000. On the black male and female from 5,000 to 15,000 salary range
is 1,043 and the Hispanic Americans male or female from the salary from 5,000
to 15,000 is 580, so you can see the big difference because in the salary from
20,000 up to 50,000 we the minorities have a very low participation. For ex-
ample in the salary from 20,000 to 50,000 in 1977, I don't have the figures
for 78 but I don't think there have been too many changes, were 406 white
male Anglos, 12 female Anglos. 17 black males, 0, none black females, Hispanic
Americans 19 males and only 2 Hispanic Americans. So you can see the differ-
ence between the salaries of 20,000 up to $50,000 and between 5,000 and
$15,000. That is why I request for the benefit of everyone in the City of
Miami this change to be made. In fact, I'm going to make a small statement
here I want to read if I may.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Argues; but Father Gibson has to leave in 10 or
15 minutes, I would imagine that you would like for us to vote on this so if
you want us to vote I would ask you to make, it very brief now.
47
MAY 2 4 in.
rt
Mr. Plummer: Let me dispute what the Mayor just said. Mr. Mayor, I don't
feel in any way shape or form that this is going to come to a vote prior to
5:00 O'Clock and Father's announced time of departure. It is my intention
and full intention, Mr. Mayor, that we're going to go through this thing line
by line and we're going to knock out those areas. You see, let me tell you
the one thing I haven't brought up at this point.
Mrs. Gordon: That's the only way I'il vote on it.
Mr. Plummer: Let me finish, Rose, please. This one Commissioner and this
one vote on this Commission will tell you from the word go there is no ques-
tion in my mind that this City must change the rules but`I want to tell you
also these rules which .have been proffered and drawn up without input of this
Commission is not what I'm ;going "to see fly. I am all in favor of change, it's
got to be but until we have the "opportunity, we the Commission, ain't nothing
going to fly if I've got....
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, "let ;me tell you, that we can, and I recognize and
I'm not going to accuse you of trying to stall this because I"know that's not
the case - now there are others `who .would like to stall "it"but .Idon't think
that you're one of them. Now let me' very emphatically point out two things:
One, that this is a first reading and there are many legislative bodies >in-
cluding the County that pass things which indicate the direction that the;:Com-
mission is going and then ainend these thirigs on Second Reading. Number two,
and I would think that would be an appropriate way of doing this. Numbertwo,
the important thing is that we as the City's governing body takeaPosition
on the changes ori the Civil Service Rules and 1 think the judge, I think, it
is really time for us to state our position so that when this matter is heard
on July lst, the Judge is aware ofwhat this Board believes.
Mayor Ferre: And those are just two observations that
Argues, would you finish your statement now?
Mr. Argues: Yes, it will be onlya few seconds. To Miami City Commissioners,
No significant progress has been accomplished in the past with the existing
Civil Service Ru].es toward minority representation in the classified service.
Therefore, another course of action has to betaken. I am in accord with the
intent of Rule 1.2 and"1".3 to include CETA employees in the classified service.
Rule 1.3, the Charter shall be interpreted broadly to include employees in
federal grant programs, whatever the Director of Human Resources terms what
is feasible to select such employees' in accordance with the selection require-
ments of this rule. I am also in favor of a reasonable certification proced-
ure toward expanded certification. The procedure would work as follows:
First certification of the top five candidates on each list; second certifi-
cation of three additional names of minorities or women; third, certification
of no more than three names of candidates who meet the special qualification
requirements. I believe that with the adoption of this procedure a -lot of
minority appointments would be made thus after analyzing the proposed rule ".
change I determined that that would be in the best interest of the Latin .com-
munity and minorities in general and the City of Miami to indulge the pro-
posed rule change. Thank you so much.
Mrs. Gordon: I've got a question, Mr. Argues. Some of the things you said,
and you're favoring I favor too. Okay? I stated before and I state again
I'm not opposed to Affirmative Action, I'm not opposed to increasing the '.Rule
of One to some other more reasonable number, I'm totally opposed to turning
it -over to Human Resources and I'm still wondering what the almost $2,000,000
that's been spent in Human Resources has produced for the benefit of the citi-
zens ofthis community. I can't find anything so far that warrants us even
having a Department of Human Resources. That's an absolute fact. We've worked
for many years without one and very effectively operated this City through
the Civil Service Board and through it's staff.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, a wonderful record of Affirmative Action with
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, you're such a gentlemen.I know you'll wait until I
finish. I'm trying to tell you that what'you're saying,' that there aren't,
people in upper levels of salary range, that isn't going to change with these
rule changes, those positionsmost of them are unclassified, most of those
have been decidedby the Manager and he didn't need you as Civil Service people
at all to make that decision and it's going to continue the same way„ So you
know you can't change the whole thing with a new set of papers you have to
48
rt
MAY 2 4 MTh
change the persons'who make the decisions.
Mr. Argues: Well, I'm not going to talk on behalf of the Manager but I don't
think he has all the blame, believe me. On the Civil Service where I was for
21 years I had met with him many times and we tried to do our best together
with the Management of different departments to bring minorities to different
groups and about Human Resources I want to say here publicly that I congratu-
late Mr. Krause, I think he has been doing an excellent job.
Mayor Ferre: All right, thank you very much.
last speaker.
Mr. Manuel Vazquez: My name is Manuel Vazquez, I'm`here on behalf of the Cuban
American Lawyers' Association. I just want to place in the record that our
association supports the changes to the Civil Service Rules of the City and I
probably agree with Mrs. Gordon that the Manager has not done enough to hire
enough people in the unclassified personnel in his department but I think we
should start with this change in the rules. We have been waiting for over
five years since the Consent Decree, this Commission hasn't done anything since
these rules were proposed last year and it's about time to move, after all I
think it's a matter of equity.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you very much.
Mr. Lacasa: Mr. Mayor, at this time I'd like to make a motion:
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, -I beg to differ, I offered a
Mayor called me out of order and I refuse....
Mr. Lacasa: I asked to be recognized.
Mrs.' Gordon: I asked to be
me offer a motion.
motion before and the
recognized before you and the Mayor would not let;
Mayor Ferre: That was not the appropriate time.
Mrs.;' Gordon: Well now
appropriate now.
Mr. Lacasa:
Mrs. Gordon:
Mayor
beg to differ, it wasn't appropriate; then' it'
I have asked to be recognized, Mr. Mayor.
I asked to berecognized before you.
Ferre: The Chair recognizes Mr. Lacasa.
Mrs. Gordon: All right,
Mr. Mayor.
not
Mr. Lacasa: I'd like to make a motion that this Commission repeal Ordinance.,
No. 6945 as amended and replace it in its entirety by the new ordinanceas
proposed by the Civil Service Board of the City of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: Is there a second to the motion?' Is there a second to the` mo-
tion? Tthere s Hearing _
gavel
Mrs. Gordon: I asked to go over this line by line and they haven 't'done that.
Mr. Plummer:
Father Gibson is to be recognized.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Vice -Mayor, I' have some concerns about a bunch of things.
I think I would: be more comfortable if you put that Affirmative Action body
in place first. Let me tell you, I warned you Affirmative Action has no author-
ity in this City and it isn't even heard unless somebody takes pitty and wants
to accept the report. I think what we ought to do, look, I'm seriously con-
cerned. I've said to the public I asked for a report - I never got it. Oh,
I got what you heard there. And then I'm concerned about, asked a question
about the County. I want to know if the County doesn't have the fears we
have or the County has been able to solve to avoid having the fears we have
I'm wondering why. Anybody could tell me? And see, I'm very concerned.
Mayor Ferre: Any discussion?
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49
MAY 24 1919
Mrs. Gordon: Yes, second his substitute.
Mayor Ferre: Under discussion?
Mr. Plummer: Father, are you finished?
Rev. Gibson: Yes I am, I'm telling you I'm scared, man.
Mr. Pltunmer: Mayor Ferre is recognized.
Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, we all sat here except for Mr. Lacasa and
Mr. Paul Andrews was sitting in that chair and you remember it was the Cohen
Decision, the Cohen Consent and Jessie Mc CrearY came here and we started to
go into the hassle as to what was going on and you came here, Mr. Squire Pad-
gett, we started going round, we went over this whole process as to who was
to blame. The Commission is to blame for lack of Affirmative Action - no, it
wasn't the Cornmission. Well, it was the manager that was to blame and Paul
Andrews got up and said, "Now wait a moment, you can't blame me, I don't have
the responsibility and I don't have it..." But the Cohen Decree that you have
the responsibility. And the union lawyers got up and they said, "But the
Charter says---" and we've been going around in circles on this thing for five
years. It's like the game with the pea, you know. Where's the pea? Who is
to blame? Well, nobody is to blame. Nobody is to blame because nobody is
responsible. See, the Charter says, the federal government says, the rules
say, this says. Now what we're trying to do at last after five years is try-
ing to put the responsibility somewhere where we, can blame somebody when the
rules are not observed properly. Now, I'm not speakingto the point as to
whether or not there has been Affirmative Action in the upper echelons of the
City, that rnay be a valid point but it's a separate point. The fact is that
under the Civil Service Rules of the City of Mi.ami when t.here was a Civil Ser-
vice Board controlled by the Civil Service and by the groups that controlled
Civil Service those rules were used in such a way that there was no upward
mobility of women and minorities - the facts speak for themselves, the record
is clear. There is no way that you can go to heaven without dying. Everybody
wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die and we have got to bite the bul-
let. I know that this upsets a lot of people, I don't want to have any more
of a problem with the unions and with the employees than I know I'm going to
have, I already have a bad enough problem, probably there isn't any way to
make it any worse but I've got to live with my conscience. I've got to live,
and it's very funny but I've got to live with it. One way or the other I've
got to live with my conscience and the fact is that this is nothing new, my
position hasn't been any different now than what it was with Paul Andrews, my
position isn't any different now than when Mel. Reese was sitting in that seat.
Yy position has been consistent and we've got to change the rules of the Civil
Service Board for us to have Affirmative Action in this City period, and that's
where we're at. Now I recognize that between now and the time we finish this
document it will be amended a hundred times and maybe it will and maybe it
won't, I don't know what this Commission is going to rule on it. I think it
is ti.ine for us to stand up and to tell the world, to tell this community and
to tell the court that this City of Miami Corrunission believes in these changes
because they will as has been said here not by Maurice Ferre but by the CRB,
by the NAACP, by SALAD, by our own Affirmative Action Board who unanimously
from the public sector voted for it so don't snicker at me, you snicker at
them because those are the people you're affecting arid I think that we ought
to vote upon this as a matter of principle today and that we ought to get on
with this job and if you want to amend this fine, on the Second Reading let's
go line by line and page by page, item by item and vote on each one separately.
go along with that.
Mrs. Gordon: If we're going to get ready for a Second Reading, Mr. Mayor, I
would like us to take this up line by line, item by item now and be prepared
for a Second Reading.
Mayor Ferre: I will agree with that.
Rev. Gibson: I have some concerns, I think that the unions registered sorne
concerns about those who have been here and what you're going to do with them,
I think I hear them saying that. I'm concerned about that. I'rn terribly wor-
ried about giving one man authority, I'm very concerned about that. Should
this motion pass on the First Reading I would want everybody to know that I'm
not obligated, I want to make sure everybody understands, Mr. Padgett, so don't
go away fi-orn here thinking, am not obligated to vote for it on the Second
Reading unless I get some significant changes in what I have before me. And
50
rt
MO 2 4 1971
11,
I want to make sure so that the Mayor and the rest of
the bargaining process I want that Affirmative Action
Manager, that's (1), so that you know. (2) I want to
is not the rule. I feel like there's an awful danger
like I felt that it was an awful danger of having the
report to the Manager. I want to make sure everybody
let me put this in the record - I venture to say I represent the minority that
has gotten more shafting than anybody, my Latin brothers can't say that. I
want them to go tell; that around the mountain, I've got more shafting than any-
body. I have moved up in the system, slower and fewer than anybody. If I'm
a liar anybody in this administration can stand up now, the Mayor included
the Manager included, anybody else and say Gibson, you're a liar. I'd be hap-
py. And what makes me know that I'm telling thetruth is they couldn't come
P you_:
u with that record. Note had 92 policemen, you now have 77, gone down
15. It kind ofbothers me, no wonder. So I want you to know that of all the
people in the minority you know I know what that's like, I said this in Atlanta
and I want to say it here, I'rn opposed to that minority jazz because you know
I'm the only real minority.
Mrs. Gordon: I'm one too, Father.
Rev. Gibson: No, well, you know.'
Rev. Gibson: I just want;to -make sure everybody understands where I am and I
want to make sure everybody.. understands and I'm going to have a fine toothed
comb before I cast my" vote, my brother.
them will know now in
moved from going to the
make sure that one man
in a rule of one just
Affirmative Action Board
understands that. And
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Krause, may 1 ask you a question? Mr. Krause, would you
please tell me how many people were hired;? in the Fire Department and Police
Department between 1975 and 1979 and if they reached the goals that were set?
Mr. Krause: Mr. Mayor, I thirik it would be better if I would offer to pro-
vide a written report prior to the Second Reading because there have been a
number of questions asked;, ori statistical basis .different from the way our
records are kept and in part I can answer'Commissioner Gordon's question, by
saying that the original Consent Decree, the Cohen Decree didn't establish
goals so the period between 1975 and 1977 didn't have any goals. There have
been goals established since 1977 under the new Consent Decree.
Mrs."'Gordon:
Well, in that period of time then were the
Mr. Krause: "Yes.
Mrs Gordon:
Mr. Krause:
Mrs. Gordon:
They were reached?
Yes.
And that's with the rules you
goals reached?
were operating under?.:
Mr. Krause: No, some of the goals were reached by violating the Civil Service
Rules and applying provisions of the Consent Decree which then led us into
court cases on almost everyone' of those actions.
Mrs. Gordon: Well, I wonder if anybody on this side of this inicrophone could
give me some more clarification? "I've got to cast a vote, I can't cast a
vote because somebody is pressuring me because of the time element to make a
vote, I want to get answers.
Mr. Don Teems: Mrs. Gordon, Don Teems, President of the Miami Association of
Fire Fighters. In my understanding, we have never ever not reached the goals.
The biggest problem within the Fire Departxnent is a budgetary problem," that
we've been cuttingpositions for the last three to four years and we haven't
been able to hire. Inthe times that we have hired we've reached or surpassed
the goals of the Consent Decree.
Mrs. Gordon: You reached: and surpassedis we're
the goals,"then.what it ,;that we
hearing all this garbage I'm hearing now about discriminatiori, this and that?
Mr. Kaplan: Mrs. Gordon, one more thing that I'd add to my client's remarks
and that is that the Fire Fighter's Union signed the Consent Decree voluntar
ily. We weren't even brought. into. ,the lawsuit, we entered it voluntarily and
signed the Consent Decree.
rt
51
FM 2 4 19/2
Mayor Ferre: That's a tactical stall.
Mr. Robert Klausner: Mrs. Gordon, may I be recognized?
Mr. Plummer:
of you sure,
Well, the Chairmari I think is over there
She has asked to ask questions, and
you may respond.
Mr. Klausner: Thank you, sir. Robert Klausner, 28 West Flagler Street, Miami,
for the Fraternal Order of Police. I've been provided some statistics by the
Fraternal Order of Police relative to the last; class in the Police Academy
which was in April of 1978. In that class in the Police Academy there were
19 people: There was one black female, four white females, eight Latin males,
six white males. Most recently there has been approved by the Civil Service
Board a register for the next class in the Academy.;; Of the first 81 people on
that register 36% are black males, 10% are black females, 24% are Latin, approx-
imately 91% of that register is minority.
Mrs. Gordon: What percent?
Mr. Klausner: 91%. These are the figures provided to me by the Fraternal
Order of Police, 91%.
Mrs. Gordon: That's: incredible!
Mr. Klausner: And that there was a special minority,recruitment ,particularly
for this class which will be, the first class in the academy in over., five years.
In addition, the other figures that'I have, in;`1974s`from that date until today
there are 110 less positions in the'Police Department than there were and
these are the changes in the numbers that have: have: There were 74 black males
in the department in 1974, today there are 64 black' males; there were 7 black
females in 1974, there are 11 black females today'...;.
Mr..Plummer: Mr. Klausner, the Chair under personal
Father Gibson.
Rev. Gibson: Ladies and gentlemen, ',didn't tell my fellow Commissioners the
real. reason I'm leaving. I'm°going over to our cathedral. and I will be in-
stalled as one of the official; cannons of the Episcopal`Cathedra]. at 5:30.
Mr. Plummer:
Rev. Gibson: Well, that's all right. I will be back, I will be delighted i
you will delay this matter, that is the vote if you wish, if not, whatever
yousay 'go get that d
but I have to one.
Mrs. Gordon: May I personally congratulate you and say that's an honor you
well deserve as all the other honors that you receive. Good luck.
priviledge wil1recognize.
I;' heard that it was a Saint.`
Mayor Ferre: I;. assume then we're not going
turns, is that it?
Mr. Plummer: The Chair shall rule that this matter
until the return of Father Gibson.
to be voting on this until he re -
Mrs. Gordon: J. L., let me get the rest of the information,
be repeated, otherwiseit's going to be all over again.
Mr. Plummer: Rose, I love you dearly but Father is not here and will not have
the benefit of hearing what you will be inquiring and the results thereof, the
Chair will rule ....
Mr. Plummer: As soon as Father returns if possible if it is not doing justice
to the scheduled 6:00 O'Clock agenda we will hearit at the conclusion of the
6:00 O'Clock agenda if necessary.
Mayor Ferre: I think that there isno reason we cannot recess but I think
this matter, there is a motion and a second for consideration and I think the
Commission under our rules has got to vote on this matter.
rt
52
lay 24SU
Mr. Plummer: There's no question it's just continued until Father's return.
The continuation"of`the Regular Agenda is included at this; point.
for continuity although it was discussed later in the evening.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, Mr. Kaplan, where are you? Joe, would you believe it,
we•are here. Alright, nov ladies and gentlemen and I know it's late at night,
but we have a very important crucial issue before this Commission. Before we
broke up at 5 o'clock, the City of Miami Commission had made a motion and I'm
going to pass the gavel over to the Vice -Mayor because I had made the motion
and Commissioner Lacasa has seconded the motion...
(BACKGROUND COMMENT INAUDIBLE)`
Mayor Ferre:. Oh, I'm sorry. Lacasa made the motion and I then seconded his
motion wherein we were going to adopt the Civil Service Rules as proposed and
adopted by the Civil Service Board. Alright, J. L., here is the gavel.
Mr. Plummer: Thank you, sir.
motion made.:Would the motion be repeated?
Mayor Ferre: The motion was as`I recall, that the Civil Service Rules-- the
amended rules-- as adopted by the Civil Service Board be adopted by the City
Commission on first reading.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor, I asked that we go over this on a line by line basis
and it was agreed that we would.
Mayor Ferre: I didn't agree that we would go
that I would go by it, at the second meeting.
Mrs. Gordon: No, no, it was discussed for this meeting and you agreed-- all of
us agreed that we would do that, even Commissioner, Plummer asked --for it. And
if we are going to make a decision asimportant as this one,we need to do that.
Some of the things in here; are acceptable, some are not, so if therefore . we want
to make changes which are preparingus for a second reading, we have to do that.
We have to go Over it.
Mayor Ferre: Well, the motion, as it was made and you were the maker of, it
Armando, was that wejust adopted afirstreading.
Mr. Lacasa: My :notion is to...
Mrs. Gordon: .I know what the motion
a line by line basis so that we...
ust asked that we go overit. on
Mr. Lacasa: I have a motion which has been seconded and what would like
have is a vote on the motion. So call the question.
Mrs.
Gordon: Yes, I'm entitled to go over this on a line by line basis.
Mr. Lacasa: I want the motion to be voted upon, Rose.';
motion seconded, so.I want a roll call on the motion.
to
t is a properly made
Mrs. Gordon: Yes, but I'm entitled to have this ordinance read in it's
entirety, that is from the beginning to the end of all the whereas's, ok?
(BACKGROUND COMMENT, INAUDIBLE)'
Mrs. Gordon: I'm entitle to it.
(BACKGROUND COMMENT INAUDIBLE) '.
Mr. Plummer: read an ordinance.
Mayor Ferre:
Mr. Plummer:
What?
You got to read an ordinance, that's the law.
Mrs. Gordon: I'm not talking only on the heading,
in the text of this to just go by a heading.
there is too much involved
Mr. Knox: The Charter provides that ordinances shall be read by a title.
gl
53
MAY 2 4 1971
Mrs. Gordon: Ordinance shall be read by a title, but ordinances also have--- of
this nature which have a tremendous amount of rules involved in it should be read,
if requested by a Commissioner, in it's entirety.
Mayor Ferre: That's your opinion, but that not what the City of Miami Ordinance
says. And a motion has been made and seconded, And'I call the question. Now,
I'm entitled to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Mayor Ferre:
Mrs. Gordon:
Mr. Plummer:
Mayor Ferre:
say.
Aren't you, going to have
•
a public hearing on it?
We have. We have had a public hearing on it.
We cut this off in the middle of. hearing, Mr. Mayor.'
Alright, alright, I'm running the meeting.:
I don't have, any objections to your saying whatever you have to
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I'm running the meeting.
Do you wish to make a comment?
You are now recognized',' sir.
Mayor Ferre: Yes. 'h;"have no=.objections,' to Joe`, and whoever •else wants= to
speak, making whatever statements and I will certainly holdback-my;call..on
the question until you have made:your stateMent.1 I -do not...:<:I will not":as
one person on this Commission accept anything but". what the Charter says and
I'm going to, after you, finish,- call the question'to vote''on it. And
going to be read by'it'stitle on first" reading., Now, if it passes,; fine;' then
on second reading, I personally; am committed, here. as the Chairman at that>time`
to have a full fledged hearing, which I want"it'to be early"in the morning at
9 o'clock and we axe goingto"leave all;"day for it becausethat'""s what it's.
going to take, .to go line,by line and page by page and vote on it section,, by,
section. And I::ontherecord hereby made." that_ commitment -:like `I did earlier`
today.
Mr. Plummer:
Mr. Kaplan:
r. Kaplan, 'do you wish to be recognized?
es, s
r, but at the outset may
Mr. :Plummer Mr. Klausner has
I have Mr. Klausner, my colleague
to ask to be recognized.
the right
Mr. Kaplan: You asked meso I'm telling you that he will be recognized.,
you would like to recognize him, he is here to :talk.� :.
Mr. Plummer:
Mr. Klausner
Mr. Plummer:
Klausner,would you like to be recognized?
es',"I would Mr. Vice -Mayor.
Proceed.
Mr. Klausner: Thank you. I'm Robert Klausner, 28 West Flagler Street,
representing the Fraternal Order of Police, Miami Lodge 20. Mr. Chairman and
members of the Commission, it is the position of the Fraternal Order of Police
Miami Lodge 20, that the Civil Service Rules as proposed before this Commission
will not serve the goals which this City has set for itself. The Fraternal
Order of. Police is committed to affirmative action. The Fraternal Order of
Police is not committed to a program that may well violate the City Charter
and that may place uncontrolled, discretion in the hands of one City official.
We said a long time ago that our society of laws and not of men and it was
because it cannot always be assumed that persons of the highest integrity
will always be occupying positions of public trust. And I think Father Gibson
revogntzed;the 'problem with these rules and Commissioner uorUou recognizaa cie
problem, when each said in turn and in their own way, that there is a great
deal of this contained in here, there is good and there is bad. And that's the
position of the Fraternal Order of Police. The issue is not whether the City
should move forward with affirmative action, the issue is whether this ordinance
which is before this Commission this evening, will effectively complete that
purpose. And it is our position that it will not. I have been instructed by
Jack Sullivan the President of Fraternal Order Police to say on the record,
that the Fraternal Order of Police is committed to consultation, to whatever
it takes to reach a strong affirmative action program. The statistics which
I began to cite before we took the evening recess, show that the latest class
f
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in II 4 UN
certified by the Civil Service Board, a power which would be taken away by
this ordinance, certified a ninety-one percent minority class for the Police
Academy. Other than a class which thirteen of nineteen were minorities, this
will be the first class in the Police Academy in nearly five years. The
number of minority Police Officers has remained static at a time when the
Police Department has lost one hundred ten positions. There are one hundred
ten less Police Officers in the City than there were five years ago. If the
number of minority officers has numerically remained the same and percentage
wise has increased greatly. The number of Black officers has risen from 10.4%
to 11.2%. The number of Latin officers has risen from 7.9% to 16%. And the
actual numbers of persons of minority officers in the Police Department has
fallen by only three, from two hundred fifty-two to two hundred forty-nine.
Yet at a time when the department lost more than 1/7th of it's strength.
At the present time, besides the one hundred fifty that are lost, the
Department is at a strength one hundred fifty short of what it should have for
a City of this size. Yet the class which was certified by the Civil Service
Board, the Board that would be discarded in large part in the selection process
of employees by this ordinance, certified a ninety-one percent minority class.
The ordinance as it's drafted would put the promotion, selection process in
the hands of one individual. The Fraternal Order of Police does not suggest
that Robert Krause is not a person of integrity and it doesn't suggest that
this City would place a person in that position who is not a person of integrity,
but that's not what the Civil Service Board was created for in the first place.
Civil Service grew from the nineteenth century when the spoil system arose out
of too few people having too much power of appointment. So it was felt that a
system of checks and balances creating a greater number of people, a presumably
neutral board mixed between management appointees, a person selected by labor,
would be more neutral. What this ordinance would do is to take that selection
process away from that group and place it in the hands of a single individual.
And what is most disturbing in placing it in the hands of a single individual,
is that the standards which guide that individual appear to be totally lacking.
To place that kind of power in the hands of an individual and not guide that
individual invites a return to the spoil system and I don't think that is what
this City seeks to have for itself. The Charter calls for a Civil Service Board,
the Charcer calls for, a merit systems. If the examinations that the City has
been using are culturally biased and have been a source of discrimination, change
the exams, but don't change the... that check and balance. You will have a
single individual, a member of the administration of the City responsible to
only one person and the Manager. Yet you have a Civil Service Board which
in part is responsible to the Commission who appoints public members and
•esponsible to the employees who elect the other members. The more people
.hat have input into a system, the greater the chances are that you will have
*n absence of abuses. I don't want to... I know the hour is late and I want
to leave time for my other colleagues to speak. So I merely summarize by
saying affirmative action is a worthy goal for this City, it's a goal that
our times demand, but the vehicle by which this City will take on affirmative
action must be in keeping with the spirit of it's Charter. If you change the
organic document upon which the power of this City is built, you take away,
the right of the people, to determine their form of government. You also
threaten the integrity of the employment and promotion system in this City.
And for those reasons on behalf of the Fraternal Order of Police, I respectfully
urge this Commission to reject the ordinance as proposed. Thank you.
Plummer: Thank you. Anyoneelse wish to be recognized?
Kaplan: I, do Mr. Vice -Mayor.
Plummer: Mr. Kaplan?
Mr. Kaplan: This Commission is being asked to approve a package which
contemplates a very dramatic change in the method by which people are tested
and receive entrance into public service or promoted in which the entire
system by which your charter has established a method of doing all of this
through the offices of the Civil Service Board will be altered. Dramatically
altered without a vote of the people to change the organic structure of the
City. You are being asked tonight to approve a Charter because it is the
belief, we submit of the maker of the motion and the Mayor, who second it,
that you must go on record as approving changes in the system by which
employees are hired and prompted in this City. Because it is suggested that
somehow there has been a failure of doing that in the past attributable to
the present system. Commissioner Gibson asked some questions this afternoon
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'SAY 2 4 1g79
1
concerning the efficacy of the present system by which the affirmative action
program is or is not implemented in the City of Miami. I call you attention
to the budgets of the Human Resources Department and the Civil Service
Department in the City of Miami for the years past. I call your attention
to the fact that the Civil Service Board with a budget in the years 1975 and
1976 of three hundred twenty-nine thousand dollars has been reduced this
year to hundred eighty-eight thousand dollars. This year their budgeted number
of employees is pix, while the Human Resources Department starting in the
fiscal year 1976-77 with five hundred ninety thousand dollars or nearly
twice the budget for Civil Service Board expanded to this year to nearly one
million dollars in their budget. Nearly one million dollars, nine hundred
twenty-four thousand five hundred thirty-four dollars as contrasted with a
hundred eighty thousand to the Civil Service Board. In contrast with six
employees and the regular employees in the Civil Service Board and one CETA
employee making seven people doing the work in the Civil Service Board, you
have twenty-four regular employees in the Human Resources Department and
thirty CETA employees making fifty-four people in the Civil Service Board if
we can rely upon the figures in your budget. Five times the money, five
times... or more of the employees and yet the Mayor and the maker of the
motion suggested this afternoon that the evils which exist in the implementation,
the consent decree is the responsibility of the Civil Service Board which they
now wish to change. And they want you to buy the package, a package which
contains not just the good things that my client and other employee groups in
this City are for, methods of improving the operation of the Civil Service
Board by changing the methods by which people are hired and promoted, which
we are for. And have urged the City and other agencies to meet with us and
develop a system of adoption, but a package which includes the most gross and
obvious transfer of power with the potential abuse of that power that I have
ever witness as an attorney appearing before a public bodies. The Director
of Human Resources by this package that you are being asked to support tonight
without debate as to the evils or value and merit of some of the provisions
of the package, the Director of Human Resources by this package will do the
following: Will assume the power of the Civil Service Board, the Executive
Secretary of the Civil Service Board or some of the employees of the Civil
Service Board to this extent. The Director, this one man, without a public
hearing I submit as the Civil Service Board that you appoint the majority to
now conducts. He will prescribe all forms. He will issue all annoucements.
He will determine when CETA employees become classified and when they become
unclassified. He will determine who shall be in the competitive class.
What is a competitive class? Who shall be in a non-competitive class. What
is a non-competitive class? He will prepare the exams. He will maintain
lists of eligibilities. He will sign all vouchers and payroll. He will
establish procedures respecting personnel records. He will determine when
residency requirements are good for promotions or entry level requirements.
He has the power to reject applications. He will establish minimum standards,
determine who takes tests. He will determine what is a passing grade. He
will judge fitness for a promotion, establish minimum testing and rating. He
will determine whether the register will be abolished or extended. He will
certified persons on lists. He will determine who goes to the non-competitive
class, who goes to the labor class and who is qualified. What does qualification
mean, he will determine. He will promote. He will approve temporary promotions
and that's all my notes direct me to right now. Those are the... that makes
reference to the grabbing of power that this document in the form of this
package that you are asked to vote upon tonight will accomplish. This is the
grab of power. This is the transfer of power from the Civil Service Board
which functions openly and democratically. This is what your... in accordance
toprovisions of the charter, this is what you are asked to do tonight. To
transfer power from the Civil Service Board to this one man. It is the position
of my client, the Fire Fighters Union, that they don't have to prove that they
are for affirmative action. While the City of Miami was the defendant in the
law, suit brought by the United States Government, it was the Fire Fighters
Union that voluntarily went forth, signed the consent decree and is seeking
in all respects through my offices and through Don Teems and other officials
of the union, to implement the consent decree. We are not trying to stop the
implementation of the consent decree. What we are saying is that the grab for
power, the blatant grab for power, the clear grab for power which this document
that you are asked to buy right now in it's entirety by expressing this so called
vote in favor of affirmative action by adopting this. You are being asked to
accept this grab for power on the pretent that if you don't do it somehow or
other the community is going to look upon you as not being in favor of affirmative
action. It is my client who believes that what is needed is a review of this
line for line, a rejection of the grab for power, an adoption of some of the
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56 iiAY 2 4 Iv?,
provisions of these proposed rules and regulations which may be used beneficially
to assist the Civil Service Board to do their job better. A criticism has
been made in the hours I have been standing there waiting for you people to
convene, that well, the age of the Civil Service Board may be past, this is thc'
age of professionals. You tell me what the Civil Service Board... how the Civil
Service Board could function if it had fifty-four employees rather than seven.
How more efficiently the Civil Service Board could function if it had a Director,
an Assistant Director, an Account ;Clerk, an Administrative Aide, an Affirmative
Action Officer, a Personnel Division Supervisor, a Personnel Officer I,
personnel Officer II, a Personnel Supervisor, a Safety Coordinator, a Typist
Clerk, an Administrator Secretary,, Senior Personnel Officer, Personnel
Administrator, a Validation Supervisor and all the other employees that work.
for this department. And if there is any truth in what the Mayor said, the
system affirmative action is failing. Not because of what the Civil Service
Board is doing, but what this agency, is not doing at the cost of a million'
dollars a year. I submit to you in conclusion, that what is happening in,
a political sense is that the members of this Commission are being asked to.
support something which is worthwhile, affirmative action. You are being asked
at the possible jeopardy of community criticism. You are being asked to vote
by us to vote down a package which contains many bad things. And you are
being asked to accept the alternative, that is that in the proper time at
proper deliberation and that could be tomorrow if you please or at sometime
in the future under proper deliberation to go over the proposed rules. and
regulations. Reject the bad, accept the good and develop an'ordinance‘that'
enhances the present Charter system,of the Civil. Service Board. 'That is our
view and you ought not to_be steam rolled into accepting this as a,package
which contains so many bad things, because then you are stamping your approval
on it. And I submit that's exactly what you are being asked to do,,so that
you, will go forth in the community of saying I'm for.thisprogram when this
program is bad.
M
. Plummer Thank you, Mr. Kaplan.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, before the... are we
(BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Mr. Plummer: Father you are recognized.
Rev. Gibson:
Vice -Mayor:'.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Adams, Commissio
You can be recognized next, sir
Rev. Gibson:" Let me
through?
. Krause, come to the
mike because`I'm
ners always take precedentover anyone else.
going to...
ask a couple of questions. How many cities have 'Changed?"
Mr. Krause: I can t tell you..precisely how many cities have changed. I:' can
tell you a couple of statistics that may helpful. It used to be customary
that what is called the rule of three,that is the three highest people on
an eligible register where the people that had to be selected. There is an
article in Prentice Hall Reporting Service for last year, indicating that of
the fifty states only twenty percent still retain the rule of three. It used
to be customary that the-- a job like the Executive Secretary of the Civil
Service Board was the chief personnel officer for a public agency. That same
Prentice Hall Report says that only twenty percent of the states still have
the chief personnel officer reporting to a Civil Service Board or a Civil
Service Agency. As I keep reading the literature, I keep finding cities.
across the Country that are either changing their entire personnel system or
changing their certification rules or combining their personnel and their
Civil Service Offices or doing a variety of things because they have found that
the existing system simply doesn't work. It does not keep them out of. Federal
Court. It does not produce affirmative action. It doesn't produce results.
There are continuing surveysdone primarily by the National Civil Service
League to try to determine how many cities have changed in a period of how
much time. That change is obviously from year to year, but it has been
substantial change over the last decade.
Rev. Gibson: Alright, let me ask a second question. Did;;I hear you say that
the percentage of Blacks in, the Police Department has increasedand yet before
I left for the recess, there were ninety-five Black Policemen and now seventy.`,
soine odd, that's an increase?
(BACKGROUND COMMENT INAUDIBLE)`
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5'7
MAY 2 4 1970
Rev. Gibson: Oh, percentage of the total. I see.
(BACKGROUND COMMENT INAUDIBLE),
Rev. Gibson: But let me tell you this, nobody is mentioning that those boys
have retired, most of them. Do you know what I mean? You know, I... Now,
I'm not familiar with statistics. I'm not statistic minded. I. could count
one- two- and three, you know what I mean. Ok. So,'I stand to be corrected
there. Hut I don't want anybody to think that we have improved-- there are
a lot of Blacks in the Police Department now, because if you had ninety -five --
how many years ago? Five years ago?-- and you got seventy-seven now, man,
ninety-five ain't nothing. You know, that's... Ok, let me ask this. The
Court will hear this case on the lst. Counsel? This is what we pay you for
man. You think the Court haven't got that letter from the Court... no, haven't
got that letter you read saying that the Court doesn't intend to run the City.
Now, Counsel over here-- remember. I'm not an attorney. My hustle is preaching,
ok. But I have been around with those Lawyers and Judges often enough to know
that they don't change too much in a hurry. Once they take a position... Oh,
by the way here is another attorney here. Look, if the Court has indicated
to you in that level that it has no desire to run the City, that you ought to
run it, you think hot as this is the Court is going to get cold and: change it's
mind Counsel?
Mr. Knox: There is really no indication that the Court would change it's mind
concerning a basic philosophy that Federal`:. Courts are'no t'`in the business of
running local government. Now, again,. the iFederal Judge made that very
clear. There has been. an opportunity for at least the Fire Fighters Collective
Bargaining Union to'prevail upon`"the Court to change it's .mind with respect to
the Civil Service Rules, to' up hold the' Civil. Service Rules and Regulations.
To this date there has been no indicationby the Court that it has changed it's
mind. We have np reason to believe.that the Court will change it's mind. The:
Court's pasition is. now,and,has"been'and_as to=:the Civil Service Rules and.
Regulations, there is.no legal controversy upon'which it will be called upon
to make a determination.. And:if:in the event,.; in our opinion,, that the:
is called upon to make a legal determination concerning a controversy, it will
not be in the nature of examining nor passing -,upon the -propriety of,various
terms and provisions that are contained in the proposed aMendments to the-~t
Civil Service Rules and -Regulations.
Rev. Gibson: You have something, contrary to that Counsel?
Mr. Kaplan: Canon Gibson, I must concur in a good portion of what Mr.
Knox said. There is no... there is nothing I can turn to, to suggest that the
Court will say that it even desires to enter into the picture. The only thing
that I can point to in candor is that we have filed good pleadings asking the
Court please, to answer the question, whether transferring the power from the
Civil Service Board to the Human Resources Department is mandated by the Consent
Decree. That's really the essential question. We have written our papers,
we have briefed it and the Judge has set it down for June 1st. I'm hopeful
I can persuade the Court to change it's mind, but I can't assure you that will
occur and I'm being candid with you. I would however, like to suggest Canon,
that my most recent remarks were not directed toward the motion that I made
eariler because I assumed that as long as we waited here until midnight that,
that motion has been denied or at least not acted upon and thus, denied through
an action. I will be there June 1st arguing the case anyway. Squire will
be there and George will be there and we will let the Judge rule. I would like
you to have saved all of this time spent today and all of the fees that were
paid and the energies expended in trying to present our case to you today.
But we weren't successful, so now I'm addressing myself as I did a few momentsr
ago, to the basic issue of the motion before you and not on my request to
postpone. The motion before you to approve the package without... you know,
good and bad without going into the defects that we think exist, is in our.
judgement wrong. So I have addressed myself to my request that you establish
a date and time for us to come back, even if it's tomorrow or at some point
in the convenient future, for use to come back and have a full hearing on the
motion before you to pass the ordinance.
Rev. Gibson: Alright, Counsel, you have j
(BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
gl
ust given me my out, o
'VAY 2 4 1919
Rev. Gibson: Wait, wait, wait, let me... I'm not going to let that get by
man, no. Look, Ipromise you right now-- I don't think the Judge is going to
change his mind. I know Joe Eaton kind of well. I have known him for about
twenty some odd years. He is a pretty, you know, rock bottom kind of a guy.
He played football, you know and doesn't mind toughing it out. I think he
is still the same kind of guy. Tell me something, if that's the case, you
know when you get to the Court on the 1st and I don't want my union brothers
to misunderstand. When you get to the Court on the 1st the Judge is going
to tell you then, what he has already told you. Ok. Now, whether you agree
with that or whether you agree with that I don't care. I'm going to have to
make my judgement. Here is what a commitment I want to make. You talk about
the corruption, the possibility and accepting the package, you know, whole-
hearted. I promise you, I promise you and I have already indicated this to
the Commission. Number one, I. want the rule of three changed to five. Now,
from all indications it won't be two this way and two that way and I am
going to be right in the middle. I'm going to be the majority, ok. That has
to happen, from three to five. Number two, I am not so anxious to put all
that power in no one man hand, so that's number two. Number three, I promise
you that I" want you and the union to participate in helping to change those
rules that you believe and perceive not to be good. Now, you know, you could
say well, I don't want totalk' with you and don't want to deal with you. You
remember what I told you about Israel in November that I saw. You will be
a fool not to be right at that table trying to give us a sense of direction
as to what kinds ofrules are good and the direction we ought to be following.
I promise you that we will not do anythingto thatpackage until all of us
are heard. I promise you that.
Mr. Kaplan: Well, that's what I suggest,
until you have had that. input.
Rev. Gibson' Well, I,don't want to defer action. Let me tell you what I
want to do, I want to move posthaste. The Judge says to me, Gibson, ;I don't
planto run your City for you, that's why they elected you. Instead of
havin?" to start the thirty days, you know, from the beginning, I" will take as much
time As needed. And'"I would, have said to the Judge, I am willing to assume"
the moral responsibility by the action I taka tonight. 1)o you, understand?`
what I mean?
Mr. Kaplan: It is our opinion that if in fact, substantial changes in that
ordinance aremade: which will change the title, you are going to have to start
all over again away.
Rev. Gibson: My brother,:I will start ten thousand times if starting ten`
thousand times will do the right thing. I have no objection to that.
that you simply defer action on it
Mr. 'Kaplan:,But tonight is... Candidate I understand that. My point is that
tonight contains... you are asked•to vote on a measure, an ordinance changing
the ,rules and regulations which ordinance contains matter that from what I
perceive you are saying, you are not even in favor of. Why should people
vote in favor of,something just to put it on the table, when by deferring it
you have got it on the table for discussion by all the people to give you
input.
Rev. Gibson: "Counsel, looks like L'm... Ok,",you know, my brother one of the`c
ways that the other guy doesn't have.to run your business is if you get about
the business, operating your business.` Do you understand what I mean by that?
Let -me explain, so the public doesn't... you see, we have all this time certain
things have taken place. Number one, you never would have had to go to Court.
When men of reason come together you don't have to go to Court, you could
perfect a gentleman's agreement and there is nothing like a gentleman's agreement..
Number two, when men of reason come together they begin to give and take, nobody
really wins. You win some, I` win some. You lose some, I lose some. I think
that's fair. I want to promise you. I want to promise you again, this a
commitment, a sacred promise at the point of death. I will not vote for
final package until all parties have been given adequate and ample time,to air
their differences ;so that;all;"of us would have equal time to air them and share.
Mr. Plummer:
Any other Commissioner wish to be recognized?
Mrs. Gordon: ' Yes.
( THERE WAS ELECTRICAL DISTORTION AT THIS POINT OF THE TAPE).
gl
59
1NAY 2 4 4
(INAUDIBLE DUE TO ELECTRICAL DISTORTION IN THE MIKE)
Mr. Kaplan: Mr. Vice -Mayor, may I respond please?
Mr. Plummer: Mrs. Gordon, you are recognized.
Mr. Kaplan: Thank you, Commissioner. Just this.. You'raised
that I think is interesting and that is that you are prepared
philosophical directionof the. City is to transfer power from
Board to one man as the Director of Human Resources. I don't
Mr. Lacasa:
Mr. Kaplan: Well
Mr. Lacasa: Then you misinterpret it.
a point Commissioner,
to state that, the
the:. Civil Service
believe...
Mr. Kaplan: Ok. I suggest however, -that -perhaps by a full hearing:we will be
able to convince you"and.other members of'this Commission that, that'sa wrong
thing to do and that you ought,not-to-..do it. But that:if it. comes to the
question of implementing. specific changes in the way people are. hired,' in' the
way, people .:are promoted; in' the. way' examinations are given, that those
are:„
the.....that.'sthe nuts and: bolts of; thewhole business of running the Civil.
Service Board. Those kind of things we think you ought to consider.' But:I
submit to you that the package that` you are asked to approve philosophically
tonight goes far beyond the nuts and bolts of specific changes in the --Civil
Service Board Rules,,and Regulations.' But rather to change the entire thrust
of the Charter mandated and present rules. and regulations mandate for handling
this thing which is the power'remains in the appointed and elected Civil~`
Service Board. That's, the; philosophical. difference we have with your motion
and that's why we say, before -you ask, people to send the message to the community
that you are in favor; of transferring the power by that vote, that you.have
a hearing, so. you can'throw,out the bad things. In conclusion let.me suggest.`
only this that you, wonder how come the Civil Service Board voted three-to,two,
the same Boardthat we are.; claiming'is going to have it's powers diluted and
transferred to another agency. You wonder how come that agency has recommended
it for you to pass. I submit that, that probably was a political decision on
the part of the Board, but interestingly that same Board that the makersof this
ordinance and these 'amended rules and regulations look with suspicion upon
have the ability to recommend to you a very change in their powers, transferring
their powers to another'agency. One questions whether if in fact the Civil;
Service Board was as bad as these amendments imply that they would do that.
And I suggest to you that this'evil Board who's powers are sought to,be transferred.
in fact is not so evil. In fact is a good agency if you only funded it and -gave
it the kind of money `you gave to the Human Resources could do the job for you.'
But that's a difference in philosophical direction, Commissioner. I suggest
however, that perhaps the majority of this Commission are not so incline tb
transfer the power from the:Board to the one man agency that spends a million,
dollars a year.
(INAUDIBLE DUE'TO
ELECTRICAL DISTORTION IN THE MIKE)
Mayor Ferre: Awe le
here. debating.
Mr.
(INA
let
not get into that. We' are going to spend two hours
Plummer: You are out of order.
UDIBLE DUE TO ELECTRICAL DISTORTION IN THE MIKE)'
Mr. Williams: My name is Jessie Williams, I represent the MCPBA 'Miami Community
Police. Benevolent Association. I would just like to, go on record in saying that
we are in favor of the package that the City Commissioners have before them now.
(INAUDIBLE DUE TO ELECTRICAL DISTORTION IN THE MIKE)`'
Mr. Plummer:
Anyone else wisb to be recognized?
recognized.
Mr. Sherman: Mrs. Gordon and members of. the Commission,my name is A G. Sherman
and I'm President of the Miami General Employees Association AFSCME Local 1907.
We readily accept Mr. 'Gibson 's propose and that we have input. To sit down and
negotiate and have an input by our membership.'Our organization has twenty-two
gl
60
MAV' 2 4 19n
hundred members which we represent, in which seventeen hundred of them are
minorities. And if it is in fact, true what Mr. Gibson is saying we will
readily and gratefully accept that opportunity to sit down. We do not feel
that there are a lot of changes which have been proposed to this Commission
that really need be implemented to necessitate a change that would help
implement the Consent Decree. And if we could sit down we would well welcome
the opportunity. Thank you.
Rev. Gibson:
recognize
Rev. Gibson: Let me make one last comment. Ladies and gentlemen, I don
want you to take me likely. I want you to`take:'me seriously. In 1954
some things started happening around here which nobody wanted to happen,nobody
was willing to try. For the information of the public and those of you in the
public who did not know this, I` want to tell you this now, so you could_. know
Gibson's general temperament. Mine is one that has grown right along.
I'was
the President of the NAACP. We tried to effectuate some changes here and`
there were people in this community who were unequivocally opposed. Also, there
were a lot of people in this community who were afraid of things that they need
not be afraid of. I'm happy to say that after all of these years I have live
to see, an awful lot of people who were afraid, who are yet living, who have
started living and are living, aren't afraid. Change is never gladly welcome.'`
For you who just came to this community, this used to be one of the most.
segregated communities in the world. I know, I lived through it, I cried
through it, I fought through it, but this was home and I led the move to
change this community. And I took the attitude that if anybody would bear the
brunt of this thing Theodore Gibson as a son of this community ought to bear it,
I did. There are people who live here today, who say to me-- and I'm saying this
to the union, you may well come to this. Some people have said to me and they',
were not Blacks, Gibson you have been loyal to this community, there can't be
any question about your wanting what is good and fair and just for this community.
I thought for me, that was the greatest compliment I could get. I shall never
forget. I will make this last reference. We had to have-- in order to
intergrade this community-- Burdines Department Store. I just said to the
new Executive of Burdines about ten days ago-- I said you ought to go to
Dallas, Texas and bring back to this community a man by the name of Sam Bloom.
Sam Bloom and I locked arms together and we helped to change this community.
We helped to change this community. We literally took this community by the
hand and walked them through the major portion of the changes that took place.
And I want to say to you gentlemen, you are talking to a man who is committed,
who is committed not to let people take advantage of you. You are talking to
a man who is committed to have you sit down to the table and help to make this
package palatable for us. Now, I will just say again and close, we are
afraid of the things that we have not really tried. I urge you, I urge
to try them. If they don't work, we will change those.
Mayor Ferre: - Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Plummer:
Mayor Ferre: I. know the hour is late and the subject is an emotional one.
just want to address myself, we have now passed the Herald deadline, so you
can relax. We haven't? Well, then you can't relax. Bob Harden is here and
we were talking a little bit a little while ago about the subject of Review
Boards and I was telling Bob that I don't believe in any professional group
or any self serving group of peers being the judge of their own activities.
Now, that goes for lawyers and I apologize to you lawyers for that. I don't
think that works too good when lawyers judge lawyers. I don't like it for
doctors. I especially don't like it for doctors and the Herald has had a,
I think a rather good run on stories about that type of thing. And I don't
like it in employee groups. Now, the Florida Public Service Commission
which when I served on the legislature, I was against the way it worked. Had
the peculiarity and still does today, that the Florida Public Service Commission
acts as judge, jury, prosecutor and advocate. And in 1979 I think that, that
is impossible. Now, we want to talk about a grab for power. Well, about
fifteen years ago or nineteen now, there was in this Country a reform movement
started. The reform movement was started by none other than the people who
were the originators of the Civil Service movement. And the Civil Service
reform is nothing new to these United States. It's old and the Civil Service
reform basically said that the original founding idea, which is what's being
gl
61
NAY 2 4 1971
repeated by some people here over and over and over again, that this power
grab, that this nepotism, that this was going to be utilized for politicians
using it as an instrument to put in their political cronies, which was the
beginning of Civil Service is no longer, true:, and that's why in City after.
City in the United States Civil Service has been changed. Including in.the
Federal Government where last.year President Carter and the Congress.and
everybody else finally passed the Civil Service Reform Bill. And what we ,-
are proposing to do here, doesn't do half of what the Federal Government did
in the Civil Service Reform Bill And what we are proposing to do here doesn't
come any where near as far as what Metropolitan Dade County today has in
effect. And here we are pussy footing and worrying about what we are about to
do, which if you will look at it in the national context and in the -context of
this community, is certainly not a bold step forward. It is a long over due
step forward. Now, with regards to power, why has there been a change in
Civil Service? What's the basis of this change? Why 'in town and city and in
state after state has there been reforin? Because what happened was that 'the
same thing that ended up being the protecting element, it's the same question
`Bob, that you were going to write your. article -about. Who protects the`
protectors from the protectors? Yousee, what happened was that the -Civil
Service Rule became not only the, protectors from political'patronage,:it also
became the protectors for management action. And what happened was that.in.
city after city employees,were'using the Civil Service System as a., tool for
status quo, as a tool to prevent change. Now, there_was justification for
that for a while, as long as there wasn't a representation, but since the
City of Miami, as many' other"cities in the, United States began, to have
employee unions,,the.employee unions filled a vacancy which existed and
which needed to be .filled. And"that was the proper representation of employees.
And what' Mr. Kaplan and. what the, members and the .leadership of the unions
that are here today are,doing and doing very effectively,. is representing. their
clients and°their constituency. `That's what unions do.,Butdon' you see that
these people here, including myself were elected bythe people of Miami: .And.
our responsibility is not to the employees,_ even- though we are responsible. to
them. Our primary,responsibility is"first of ill to our conscience and all
mighty 'God.And secondly to the people who,elected,us. Now, Periclesa.-long
time ago said " a.just society is one in which those that are unaffected are,
as concerned as`those~that are, affected", and that's what thisis',all';about
and that's what. this%is all, about.:' What we have in Miami and what we- have_ had
in America'is.what the scientist have called institutionalized discrimination.
That doesn't mean'that there isn't blatant. racism, that perhaps it still burns
in the hearts ofsome people, but I. don't think that's the case reallyin
America of 1979.; What we have are systems and ;structures that are vestiges
of another time that still 'remain -as fossils,. but somehow alive and these
vestiges are sometimes the hardest thing. in the: world to change. You know,
Abraham Lincoln" said , that the difference between peace and order is .that
sometime order has to be imposed by force and that peace requires harmony".
And what I think we desperately need around here is an understanding that what
we really are striving for is peace amongst each other and I think we can:only
have that if we strive for, if'we can arrive" at a harmonious relationship. Now,
we have before ussomething which,.speaks to the problem that we know has
existed and Rose'Gordon can fiddle all she wants in trying to say that such a
thing does;not exist.;`„But,you and I know that there has been institutionalized'
discriminationin this community. I' don't know who is going to deny it. I
don't think that anybody is brave enough' tosay that we can fiddle away at
that one. The facts,speak.for themselves and the only way that we can change
something like this is by addressing it head on with a, little bit -of courage',
and not that much because what we are doing is not that radical and not that
new and certainly not that path breaking. Lastly there is a question of
responsibility. Now, we are not,addressing that tonight and I'm not going
to talk too much about it, but.I will when we go on this thing page by page.
You cannot hold somebody accountable unless you`give him the responsibility.
What we are talking about is accountability. If we. do, not make people
responsible, then,we will have,Squire,Paggetts of the future come before
here as he did when:Paul Andrews was sitting in that seat and say "who is
responsible?"- and we area"going°to get the samekind of an answer. Well, the
Charter says... Well, no,;the Civil, Rights` Act says... and the Commission°is
responsible... no, that's .a Civil Service... somebody has to be responsible.
And I submit to you that you cannot put the fox to take care of a chicken
coop. Now, the question is, who is.thefox? And the question is, whoare
the chickens? And I' tell;you,that you cannot have an employee controlled
group which hasbeen the traditional posture of, the,Civil.Service Board,Aip
until very recentlycontrolled:the destinies of"the employment procedures
in this community, in this. City. No, asit doesn't happen in the Federal
Government, nor can it happen in the County and it doesn't, and it shouldn't`'
gl
62
km 2 4 197$
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i
happen in the City and that's something that we will address, I would hope,
next month sometime and I'm sure we will take several days in doing that.
Purge you to approve this`on first reading.
Thank you.
Kr. Plummer, may I respond very quickly please, sir?
You are recognized.
Mr. Kaplan: In brief response to what Mr. Ferre said let me remind the Board
that you are not being asked to do avay with the Civil. Service System." Because
the Civil Service System is carved out in the Charter. And if you want to
change the Charter you don't do it by ordinance, but you do it by a vote of
the people of this community. The Mayor recognizes that I'm sure, of all
people the Mayor realizes that if you are going to change the Charter, you need
a vote by the people. And the Charter is the instrument that contains the
direction that this City should take until the Charter is changed, which is the
continuation of the Civil Service System. Now, I'm not withstanding the Mayor's
reflection on the history of the Civil Service. Systems and Civil Service Systems
that are bad and not responsive to the people. You are not being asked by this
ordinance to change the Civil Service System. You are being asked solely to
take away the functions of. a Civil Service System from a Board composed of
five people, three of whom are elected by or selected by you people and two of
whom the minority of the Board are selected by the employees at large. A
majority of the Board is selected by the Commission. It transferred the power
Mr. Mayor, from the Commission with it's ability to select the majority of the
members of the Civil Service Board to one man. One man appointed by your,
City Manager. You are not doing away with the Civil Service System Mr. Mayor...
Mr. Mayor, you... if I'm interrupting your conversation I will be happy to be
quiet. But if you give me the courtesy of listening to me, I will listen to
you as I always have. May Isuggest to you only in conclusion, that the Mayor'
rhetoric against the Civil Service System stands true for Civil Service:`
Systems that don't work. Your Civil Service System can work. The only thing
that you are being asked to do now is improve it. We are in favor of improving
it. But you are being asked to buy a package which not only improves it, but.
takes the implementation of it, the direction of it, the administration of it
out of the hands of one Board of five people to one man. And that Civil Service
System we cannot countenance, you should not countenance and we submit that
if you pass it the people of this community won't countenance it, because it's
wrong. If you want to do away with the Civil Service System Mr. Mayor, we are
in accord with that. If you want to do away with the Civil Service System
put a vote up to the people to do away with the Civil Service Board completely
and negotiate the terms and conditions of every single employee's promotional
opportunities, hiring opportunities, disciplinary opportunities with the union
involved and we will accept it Mr. Commissioner. But that's not the issue that
you are being asked to vote upon. Not whether the union has the power to
negotiate, that's guaranteed by'the Constitution. Not whether there should be
a Civil Service System, that's guaranteed by your Charter, but rather should.
you take the power away from five people and give it to one man. That's the
issue,let's not forget it.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Mayor?
Mr. Plummer: Mrs. Gordon?
Mrs. Gordon: Mr. Vice -Mayor, I waited patiently while we listened to the
history of the beginning of time. I want to tell you that you are all misguided.
And I'm not kidding you either, because two years ago we stood here and these
employee union people said if you fire those Policemen and Firemen as was being
recommended by the Manager and Mr. Krause and whoever else was involved in that
shenanigan, then you can fire them for thirty days and rehire them and pay them
with CETA dollars. And that's perfectly legal we were told and you can do that.
That's the kind of advice you receive and that's the kind of advice you are
getting now. And I'm telling you that just as wrong as it was then to do what
you advised us to do then, is just as wrong right now for us to accept the
advice we are being given tonight to transfer the power, to transfer all the
decision making whatsoever there is to do with regard to the employees to one
single individual. The same individual who recommended us to circumvent the
law in 1977.
Mr. Klausner: Mr. Vice -Mayor?
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1110 2 4 1S7`=
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Klausner is recognized.
Mr. Klausner: If we read the mood of the Commission tonight, it's to send a
message to the community that 'this Commission is concerned with affirmative
action. If that's your"concern,,then let this Commission through it's power
of resolution resolve to be committed to=affirmative action. But don't send
a message on a faulty vehichle. Don't,pass an 'ordinance or give approval to
an ordinance, which it appearsthemajority of this Commission have expressed
to the public, they have serious doubts about it. Resolve that you are
committed and we join with you in that resolution. But before you commit
yourself by your votes, to even the first passage of a vehicle which appears
to be full of faults, let's have thepublic discussion, let's have the
in-depth research, let's have the community talk. Thank you.
Mr. Lacasa: If I might say so in response to your statement, let me tell you
that this community is waiting for much more at this point, than a simple
resolution of intention from this Commission. This is passed too. What this
community wants is action. And what. this Commission has to provide isn't just
that. We have to live up to our connnitment, we have to live up to our
responsibilities. The credibility of the government of this City isat
stake right now and we cannot delay this any longer.
Mayor Ferre: I call the question.
Mr. Plummer:
Mayor Ferre:.
wait a minute. Are you still calling i
Mr. Plummer: Calling thequestion_preempts any further discussion,`but.since
you have withdrawn it the Chair recognizes Don Teems.
Mr. Teems: Don Teems, President of the. Miami Association of Fire Fighters.
I don't think anybody on this Commission and I; think I have said it over and
over again, feel that the fire fighters have not been for affirmative action,
have not agreed with the Consent Decree, have not tried to do everything they
could to affect it. At least that's the way I read all of the Commissioners.
And to prove a point and I didn't have the, statistics earlier when you asked
me how many numbers. I. knew because the union would check every time that
we had a class in the last five years, that there were the goals met. That.I
knew, I didn't know what the numbers were. Since 1975 we have lost eighty-
six White Anglos, we have gained sixteen Blacks, we have gained thirty-eight
Latins. The problem is not the fact that we are not affecting afirmative
action. The problem is that we are not hiring employees. You can't... the
only answer to that is to fire the White that's got the job now. That's the.
only answer I have got and if somebody here can give me an answer of how you
can reduce employment andaffect affirmative action, I would like to hear it.
Now, I have also been told that-- one time tonight by a guy I consider
pretty standout--- that well, sometimes the baby has to be thrown out with
the bath water and may be you are the baby. May be the fire fighter is the
baby. Well, I'm going to tell you right now, we are not going to get thrown
out without a fight and that's the way it's going to be. You are pushing me
to the other side of the fence and I don't want to go there, but you are
doing it.
Mr. Plummer: Anyone else wishes to discuss this matter? The Chairman then
will ask a few questions that he would like answered. Mr. Krause,
is there existing or Mr. Manager, either one, a set of rules and regulations
and guidelines for the Department of Human Resources or it's Director?
Mr. Krause: There is an ordinance creating the Department...
Mr. Plummer: 4No, sir, I'm not saying an ordinance. There is an ordinance
creating the Civil Service Board. Is there any where existing presently
a set ofrules and regulations and guidelines for the Director of the Department
of Human Resources and or the Department?
Mr. Krause: There are a variety of guidelines not covering all subjects, but
coveringa number of subjects. The ,City Manager has issued administrative
directives on a variety of topics that cover functions of the Human Resources
Department.
in another perspective. Has this Commission
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- WM!4197
4�5tiFi •.�yeu•
4
•
the official body of this City, passed any resolutions, passed any policy
statements in effect, saying what your duties, what your latitude and what you
can do and what you can't do?
Mr. Krause: A basic policystatement adopted in resolution form is the
affirmative action plan adopted by the City Commission in January. of 1978,`,I
believe. Other than that the Commission has; not adopted resolutions or other
ordinances except the original ordinance.
Mr
. Plummer:`" Mr. Mayor, I
Mr. Krause: Mr. Vice -Mayor, the City Manager has reminded me that the Civil
Service Rules themselves provide a great deal of guidance and control over
the actions of the Department of Human Resources.
Mr. Plummer:
that power,
Mr. Krause:
s that correct?
Which in the forty-seven instances in this document transfers
don't know whether it forty-seven, it may very well b
Mr. Plummer: Or more..
Mr. Krause ::.. Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I.:think what this community really wants tohear is
exactly what Lacasa says -and.I agree. The time for change is long over due
and I agree with that, butMr. Mayor,I cannot agree that in forty-seven
instances asoutlined in this package, we are turning over to a_single
individual the power and authority vested in these changes. I sat through a
Civil Service Board hearing the other day and 'in that hearing the very, very
question that I,. brought up 'many years ago when the Consent Decree gave the
power for a individual to play God, in my estimation, of saying a person is
more demonstratively superior than another. I don't agree with that. I don't.
agree with that at all. I' don't think Mr. Krause is capable of, I don't think
anyone else who subsequently could sit in that seat is capable of saying that
one person without testing is more demonstratively superior than another. I
think it is wrong to take and try and, to place all of this power with a single
individual. Mr. Mayor, I could :vote; for this motion ;this '-evening, if iahat
I have heard here this evening is really true. Do you want to get me to vote'
for this and show you where I: stand? In every instance where it says transferred
to the; Director of the Department of Human Resources remove it and I will vote
Mrs.
will second that if you will make it'in the form of.'a motion.`"
Mr. Plummer: Rose, may I finish please? Tam saying to you, that I am committed
to change. I think these changes are good, but I am not in favor of transferring
over to one individual these powers. Let me tell you, a lot of speakers have
spoke today and 1 have not corrected them.'" A little bit of power and a little
bit of, knowledge is dangerous. And let me tell you why, they have said where
the power rest, where the vested rests,but let me tell you something, when it
all comes down to the bottom line it rest right here. Right here in this
City Commission. Mr. Krause can make; his; rulings, he can make his things, but
you know what, it's right here. Mr. Krause doesn't answer directly to this
Commission where the final vote rests. Mr. Krause,-- and excuse me, I... The
Director of that Department, I want to remove it as a personality item, doesn't
directly report to this Commission, he reports to the Manager through channels
who eventually reports to this Commission. I don't want that, I don't want
that. I want somebody who is going; to be answerable to me and I will sit through
what I want to hear and what I don't. I want that option. And all I'm saying is
if Mr. Krause as the Civi1 Service Board is answerable directly to this
Commission, they have theopportunity to come here before this Commission at
any time and be heard without sending information through channels. Mr. Krause
does not have that by the Charter as it exists today,he must go through channels.
And we have heard and seen where certain things have been forwarded that this
Commission did not see and I'm not saying that, that was deliberate. I'm
saying if I'm going to make the final decision and that's what that Consent
Decree says, I'm going to make it. Whoever that person or Board which I
prefer, the Civil Service Board doesn't want to do it, fine, God bless them
and we can appoint an Affirmative Action Board. Like Father said "answerable
directly to this Commission",'no bypassing, right here. I'm all for it. If
you want my vote, I will tell you transfer every where in this document directly
to an Affirmative Action Board that's answerable to this Commission, then I
will vote for it. But I cannot vote for that which is proposed giving that
gl
65
• MAY 2 4 1919
much authority to a single individual who doesn't answer to me when I've`
got to make the final decision.
Mrs. Gordon: J. L., do you want to move it? If you do I will second it and
then we will get the... the sense of the Commisson is that everybody is
favor of affirmative action, nobody is opposed to affirmative action. Not:
one single person.' Not even opposed to the regulations as set up, opposed
only to the transferring of the power the Human Resources Director. That's
all.
Mr. Plummer: Well, let me`say 'one other thing.
Mrs. Gordon: I will second that.
•
Mr. Plummer: Let me say one other thing. I personally don't feel that the
court action on Friday -is going to be''that on pointto•what this Commission
is going to decide. I. just don't believe that, regardless if what the court
rules.
(BACKGROUND COMMENT
OFF=THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Mr. Plummer: What I am saying Mr. Mayor, I would feel more comfortable in
deferring this item or continuing this item until such time that. all; matters.`
have been aired. And if in fact, .I lose and the Department Directo'ris in,fac
the man who is going to head it up, that we have the.rightto set the rules
and regulations. You know, that's all I'm saying., Now, you all do what you
want, I'm telling you how I feel.
Mayor Ferre: J.
Rev. Gibson: Let me ask you this J.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor had the floor first.
Mayor Ferre: Well, Father, I don't want to cut you off, but 1 think
one and I just want to call the question and let's vote.and go home.
going to have two days... I guarantee you that this is going to, take
of arguing and discussion and going line by line on this item and if
time Plummer or somebody wants to make a motion to transfer this, to'
that, those are the things that we will have to take one at a time.
L , I will tell you at this stage, at this stage of the game...
Rev. Gibson:
Mr. Plummer:
Rev. Gibson:.
May I ask this for enlightment?
Father, you are recognized.
Mr. Plummer: Yes, sir.
it's almost
And., we are
two. ;days
at that
transfer
Rev. Gibson: If we pass this on first reading... I thought,.I may be wrong,,
but I'thought that anything that's in that package that we did not want --
this is the way we do on other things-- when we come up for the second reading,
we could change it. And what I was indicating... my position is, I am not
about, I am not about to let one man, because even though I work for the Lord
there are times I don't hearwhat the Lord says purposely.
(BACKGROUND COMMENTS OFF,THE'PUBLIC'RECORD)
Rev. Gibson: But what I'm saying is... what I'm hoping is that.. I think
we all are agreeing... I think there are three of us or four of us agreeing
that we do not want one man to-}:ave life and death. And that Plummer has
joined me in saying that the Affirmative Action Board or whatever Committee
ought to be answerable to us. I cannot see why we can't change that between
now and whenever. And I would not want to... , I would not want to take
no final action until you have had an opportunity to hear what the Judge
going to say. You know, I think that's common sense. Look, we got to
operate in good faith.
Mayor Ferre:
Mrs. Gordon:
Mr. Plummer:
I call the question.
It doesn't make sense.
Father, to answer your question which I'think was directed
gl M aY 2 4.e ,_
�1 R
towards me.
(BACKGROUND COMMENTS INAUDIBLE DUE TO ELECTRICAL DISTORTION
AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED:
AN ORDINANCE REPEALING ORDINANCE NO. 6945,
AS AMENDED, IN ITS ENTIRETY, AND SUBSTI-
TUTING THEREFOR, A NEW ORDINANCE APPROVING
A NEW CODE OF CIVIL SERVICE RULES AND
REGULATIONS AS HEREINAFTER SET FORTH;
CONTAINING A REPEALER PROVISION AND A
SEVERABILITY CLAUSE.
Was introduced by Commissioner Lacasa and seconded by Commissioner
and passed on its first reading by title by the following 'vote -
AYES: Mr. Lacasa, Rev. Gibson and Mayor Ferre.
NOES: Mrs. Gordon and Vice -Mayor Plummer.
ABSENT: None.
The City Attorney read the ordinance into the public record and
announced that copies were available to the members of the City Coin -
mission and to the public.
Ferre
S. ALLOCATE UP TO $15,000 TO CO -HOST "ECONOMIC ALTERNATIVES IN
THE CARIBBEAN" CONFERENCE IN THE FALL OF 1979.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, ladies and gentlemen, we only have one other item and
that's, that "Economic Alternatives in the Caribbean" conference and that
resolution is right before you. Is there a motion?
Rev. Gibson: Move.
M:s. Gordon: :Where i
r:r. Lacasa: Second.
Mayor Ferre It was, passed around.
Rev. Gibson: This is aresolution, Rose.•
Mayor'Ferre:
roll.
s that?
Alright,` moved and seconded, further discussion on it, call the
Thefollowing „resolution was introduced by Commissioner Gibson, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 79-399
A RESOLUTION EXPRESSING THE INTENT OF THE CITY
COMMISSION TO ACCEPT THE HONOR OF BEING THE HOST
CITY FOR A TWO-DAY CONFERENCE IN THE FALL OF 1979,
TO BE CONDUCTED JOINTLY BY THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE
INSTITUTE AND THE COUNCIL OF THE AMERICAS UPON
THE THEME: "ECONOMIC ALTERNATIVES IN THE CARIBBEAN",
FURTHER INDICATING THE WILLINGNESS OF THE CITY
COMMISSION TO SHARE ITS HOST STATUS WITH DADE
COUNTY AND WITH THE STATE OF FLORIDA BY ALLOCATING
UP TO $15,000, PROVIDED THAT THE COUNTY AND STATE
PARTICIPATE IN SUCH UNDERTAKING BY EACH ALLOCATING
UP TO $5,000; FURTHER INDICATING A WILLINGNESS ON
THE PART OF THE CITY TO PROVIDE NECESSARY ADMINISTRA-
TIVE SUPPORT FOR THE CONFERENCE.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and onfile`
in the Office of the City Clerk.)
6/
2 4 1%7
er
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Lacasa, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote -
AYES: Commissioner Rose Gordon
Commissioner Armando Lacasa
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson
Vice -Mayor J. L. Plumper, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
Plummer: There's no question: it's justcontinued until` Father
Thereupon, the Commission recessed the Meeting before
reconvening to consider the 6:00 O'clock Agenda of Planning and
Zoning Matters. The Discussion of the proposed Civil Service
Rules and Regulations changes was continued at the conclusion
of the 6:00 O'clock Agenda.
ATTEST:
Ralph G. Ongie
RALPH G. ONGIE
CITYCLERK
Matty. Hirai"
MATTY HIRAI
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
CITY SEAL
Maurice A. Ferre
MAYOR
Y
s return.
YAy 2 4 1!T! .
CITV of MFAMI
DOCUMENT
MEETING DATE:
INDEX May 24, 1979
ITEM NO
1
2
DOCUMENT IDENTIFICATION
COMMISSION
ACTION
RETRIEVAL
CODE NO.
3
6
1
1
0
1
2
COMMISSION AGENDA AND CITY CLERK REPORT
APPROVING, CONFIRMING AND RATIFYING THE CITY
MANAGER'S ACTION IN HIRING THE FIRM OF HERMI-
TAGE MANAGEMENT SERVICES INC:
ACCEPTING. THE PLAT ENTITLED HEARN'HEIGHTS, A
SUBDIVISION IN`THE CITY OF MIAMI.
GRANTING APPROVAL OF GOVERNMENTAL, USE TO CON-
STRUCT AND, OPERATE FIRE STATION #4, ON ,LOTS
8, LOTS 9 THRU 12 LESS WEST 10 FEET THEREOF,
MIAMI HEIGHTS.
GRANTING APPROVAL OF GOVERNMENTALUSE TO CON-
STRUCT AND OPERATE FIRE. STATION .#14,'ON LOTS
181 THRU 183 AND B, BEACOM MANOR
ACCEPTING THE PLAT ENTITLED JAMESTOWN:
A SUBDIVISION IN THE CITY OF MIAMI'
AUTHORIZING THE' PROPER OFFICIALS OF THE CITY
OF MIAMI TO ACCEPT AND 'RECORDA GRANT OF
PERPETUAL EASEMENT FOR PEDESTRIAN PURPOSES
ACCEPTING THE PLAT ENTITLED INTERCAP SUBDI-
VISION, A SUBDIVISION IN THE CITY OF MIAMI
AUTHORIZING THE PROPER OFFICIALS OF THE CITY
OF MIAMI TO ACCEPT AND RECORD A GRANT OF PER-
PETUAL EASEMENT FOR PUBLIC STREET PURPOSES.
CENTER,
ACCEPTING THE PLAT ENTITLED FORTE PROPERTIES
SUBDIVISION, A SUBDIVISION IN THE CITY OF
MIAMI
AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO EXECUTE, ON
BEHALF OF THE CITY, AN AGREEMENT WITH MIAMI' S
SUMMER BOAT SHOW, A DIVISION OF POSITIVE RE-
SULTS, INC., FOR THE USE OF COCONUT GROVE
EXHIBITION CENTER.
AUTHORIZING ISSUANCE OF A DEVELOPMENT ORDER,
APPROVING WITH MODIFICATIONS, THE BALL POINT
PROJECT, A DEVELOPMENT OF REGIONAL IMPACT,
PROPOSED BY HOLYWELL CORPORATION, FOR TRACT
D, DUPONT PLAZA
EXPRESSING THE INTENT OF THE CITY COMMISSION
TO ACCEPT THE HONOR OF BEING THE HOST CITY
FOR A TWO-DAY CONFERENCE IN THE FALL OF 1979
R-79-381
R-79-384
R-79 - 385
R-79-386
R-79-387
-79-388
R-7.9=389
R-79-390
R-79-391
R-79-394`
R-79-39.6
R-79-399
0009.
79-381
79-384
79-385
79-386
79-387
79-388
79.389
79-390
79-391
79-394
79-396
9-399
I11111IIIIIIIIII11111111111.1100U