HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1980-04-24 MinutesCITY OF MIAMI
MINUTES
April 24, 1980
OF MEETING HELD ON
(REGULAR) (PLANNING & ZONING)
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
CITY HALL
RALPH G.. ONGIE
CITY CLERK
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--: _ CIiYI�TiISSIaq OFAMIRA"iI, FIARID4
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(REGULAR)
(PLANNING & ZONING) SMCT APRIL 24, 1980
PERSON:', APPEARANCE -ATTORNEY RICHARD GERSTEIN
REPRESENTING CITY ATTORNEY GEORGE KNOX
DISCUSSION ITEM: HARRY M. STEVENS, INC., IN REGARD
TO BEER DISPENSING EQUIPMENT AT THE ORANGE BOWL
PLAQUES, PRESENTATIONS, CERTIFICATES OF
APPRECIATION AND MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS
ALTERNATIVE SITES FOR MARITIME MUSEUM
DEFERRAL OF CONSTT.IL ATION: CITIZEN PARTICIPATION
GUIDELINES
BEER DISPENSING EQUIPMENT AND INSTALLATION AT THE
ORANGE BOWL STADIUM -CONTINUED FROM ITEM 2 - 5-DAY
RULE INVOKED
MAYOR CALLS SPECIAL MEETING: BEER DISPENSING EQUIPMENT
IN THE ORANGE BOWL STADIUM
BISCAYNE BAY MANAGEMENT GUIDELINES AND COUNTY COASTAL
PERMITTING - DISCUSSION AND RESCHEDULE FOR MAY 28, 19E
DISCUSSION ITEM: BOXING AND WRESTLING BOARD
PERSONAL APPEARANCE: JOSEPH E. WOODNICK, CHAIRMAN,
NORTHEAST AREA SUB -COUNCIL FOR COMPREHENSIVE CRIME
PREVENTION PROGRAM
REQUEST FOR MORATORIUM ON RECREATIONAL PROJECTS ON THE
RICKENBACKER CAUSEWAY
DEFERRAL OF: ONE APPOINTMENT TO THE ZONING BOARD
(ALTERNATE) AND APPOINTMENT OF 4 MEMBERS TO THE
WATERFRONT BOARD
DEFERRAL OF CONSIDERATION: AGREEMENTS FOR PROFESSIONAL
TRAINING ;:OR "ETA TITLE II-D AND VI PARTICIPANTS
(A) RE I:MBiUj?Si EXPENSES TO "JUNTA PATRIOTICA CUBANA"
FOR US-7 Ur' THL MIAMI STADIUM;
(B) DECLARE M_-=Y 20TH AS "JUNTA PATRIOTICA CUBANA DAY"
IN MIAi 11 ;
(C) DECIARATION OF WELCOME TO NEWLY ARRIVING CUBAN
REFUGEES
FIRST AND SECO';L; ]tELT)TNG ORDINANCE: FUNDING OF
FEASIBILITY AND DESIGN STUDIES FOR PARKING
STRUCTURES
APiROVY' Qti"d.TFIES CONSULTING FIRMS: PROFESSIONAL,
i-11H7'1'EC'1'[iR:1i, ENGINEERING SERVICES 7OR TRAFFIC STUDIES,
PROPOSED PARKING PROJECTS, ETC.
QRn i wCE
RCsowmNlf o, I PAGE NO.
DISCUSSION 1 - 2
DISCUSSION 3-11
PRESENTATIONS 12
M-80-295
DEFERRAL
DISCUSSION
M-BO-296
DISCUSSION
DISCUSSION
M-80-297
M-80-298
DEFERRAL
DEFERRAL
R-80-299
M-80-300
r�_un_?nl
M-80-302
ORD.9093
R-80-303
12-15
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16-23
23-25
25-29
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33-38
38-42
42-43
43-53
54-56
57-61
61-62
w
ISO(
CIIYi�i7 SSIQ'J OF MIA"�I, 6RIDA
To NO, (REGULAR) APRIL 24, 1980
(PLANNING AND ZONING) 5&�
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DISCUSSION ITEM: ACTUAL STUDY OF .5% INCREASE FOR
RETIRED EMPLOYEES (SEE MOTION 80-306)
AUTHORIZE CITY MANAGER TO EXECUTE ADDENDUM TO CONTRACT
WITH MARINE STADIUMS ENTERPRISES, INC.
AWARD CONTRACTS PROFESSIONAL SERVICE APPRAISALS OF
MIAMI MARINE STADIUM CO;TLEX
DIRECT ADMINISTRATION TO REPORT BY MAY 8, 1980 ON
SOURCE OF FUNDING FOR .5% INCREASE FOR RETIRED
EMPLOYEES
PUBLIC HEARING: OBJECTIONS TO ACCEPTANCE OF COMPLETED
CONSTRUCTION CITY WIDE S.S. EXTENSIONS-FLAGLER STREET
CENTERLINE SR-5458-C
FIRST AND SECOND READING ORDINANCE: AMD. SEC.
1:MISCELLANEOUS PROJECTS
FIRST AND SECOND READING ORDINANCE: INCREASE
APPROPRIATION TO PLANNING AND ZONING BOARDS
ADMINISTRATION -PRINTING AND MAILING OF ZONING HEARING
NOTICES
ACCEPT GRANT: U.S. DEPT. OF HEALTH, EDUCATION AND
WELFARE STAFF TRAINING FOR ADAPTED RECREATION ORD
YEAR)
FIRST AND SECOND READING ORDINANCE: ESTABLISH NEW TRUST
AND AGENCY FUND: STAFF TRAINING FOR ADAPTED RECREATION
ORD YEAR)
AUTHORIZE AGREEMENT: STATE OF FLORIDA DEPT. OF
TRANSPORTATION CONFERENCE/CONVENTION CENTER
ACCEPT COIF LETED WORK: ORANGE BOWL -PAINTING AND
MAINTENANCE
EXPRESS CITY'S ENDORSEMENT FOR CREATION FOR FLORIDA
INSURANCE EXCHANGE AND RECOMMENDING GREATER MIAMI
ACCEPT BID: HEAVY EQUIPMENT
ACCEPT BID: OFFICE SUPPLIES, PURCHASING DIVISION,
CENTRAL STORES
AUTHORIZE CITY'S PARTICIPATION: AMERICAN CANCER
SOCIETY GOLF CARD PROGRAM.
WAIVE SINGLE GREEN FEE MELREESE GOLFCOURSE
ACCEPT BID: SWIMMING POOL CHEMICALS
DEFERRAL OF AGENDA ITEM "F" ITEM 34
PUBLIC HEARING: RELOCA:'ION OF BUTLER BUILDING TO
FT. DALLAS PARK
PRESENTATION BY COCONUT GROVE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE
PROTESTING PLAN TO LOCATE FIRE COLLEGE IN COCONUT
GROVE AREA
PAGE #2
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pRDI MNCE
RESOWTiati No
DISCUSSION
62-63
R-80-304
65-66
R-8G-305
M - 80-306
I R - 80-307
ORD. 9094
M - 80-308
ORD. 9095
R - 80-309
ORD. 9096
R - 80-310
R - 80-311
R - 80-312
R.- 80-313
R - 80-314
R - 80-315
R - 80-316
DEFERRAL
R - 80-317
I PRESENTATION
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If�UEX
CI I Is'sj Mi'Atu'p',FrDRIDA
(REGULAR) APRIL 24, 1980
(PLANNING AND ZONING) SULECT
APPROVE QUALIFIED CONSULTING FIRMS: ARCHITECTURAL/
tNGINEER.I1, SERVICES FOR DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION
OF MIAMI ''IRE RESCUE TRAINING FACILITY AND CLOSED
CIRCUIT TELEVISION SYSTEMS
MOTION OF INTENT: MAY 1980 MEETINGS TO BEGIN AT
1:00 P.M.
ESTABLISH TASK FORCE TO ASSIST IN ARRIVALS OF REFUGEES
FROM CUBAN AND APPOINTING MEMBERS THERETO
APPEAL BY MARIO S.
TABRAUE OVERULE DECISION OF ZONING BOARD AND GRANT
VARIANCE
REQUEST FOR CHANGE OF ZONING FROM R-3 TO R-5 CLOSE
ALLEYS, AREA BOUNDED BY N.W. 17 STREET, N.W. 19
STREET, N.W. 14 STREET, WAGNER CREEK, N.W. 15 AVENUE
DISCUSSION AND DEFERRAL:
REQUEST FOR PERMISSION FOR PLANNED AREA DEVELOPMENT-
1643 BRICKELL AVENUE — RESCHEDULE THIS ITEM TO BE
HEARD MAY 7, 1980
DISCUSSION ON APPOINTMENT OF ZONING BOARD ALTERNATE
FORMALIZING RESOLUTION:
CONDITIONAL USE FOR 90 SLIP MARINA GROVE —ISLE
PAGE # 3
QR.D I NMCE Of�
K�sourriay too, PAGE NO,
R — 80-318 104
M — 80-319
M — 80-320
6 R — 80-321
FIRST READING
R — 80-322
M — 80-323
M — 80-324
DISCUSSION
R — 80-325
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135-148
148-149
I 149-150
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF THE
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
On the 24th day of April, 1980, the City Commission
of Miami, Florida met at its regular meeting place in the
City Hall., 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami, Florida in regu-
lar session.
The meeting was called to order at 1:25 O'clock P.M. by
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre with the following members of the
Commission found to be present:
Commi6zionek Joe CanoUo
Comm.iz4.i.onek J. L. PZummet, Jk..
Commibd.ionek (Rev.) TheodoAe G.i.bzon
Vice -Mayon AAmando Laca.sa
Mayon MauA.ice A. Fe.v_c.
ALSO PRESENT:
Joseph R. GAa,5b.i,e, City Manage-4.
Geon.ge E. Knox, City At-toAney
Ra.Cph G. Ongie, City Ctenk
Matt y H.ita.i, Azzi4tant C.%.ty C.2ekk
An invocation ways deZivened by ReveA.end G.ib.son who then
Zed tho.3 e pAes enti .in -a pledg e o � aZZeg.iance to the 6tag .
A motion to approve .the minutee o6 Januany 24, 1980,
wa.s .intAoduced by Commi..sz.i.oneA Laca-sa, seconded by Commis-
6ionetL G.ib�on aFid pazzed and adep-teal u),animou:sty.----��_
1. PERSONAL APPEARANCE - ATTORNEY RICHARD GERSTEIN
REPRESENTING CITY ATTORNEY GEORGE KNOX.
Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, before we get into the Committee of the
whole Meeting; which is Item A, Mr. Gerstein who represents George Knox has
asked to make a statement into the record. I do not perceive that we will
have any discussio:, beyond that. I have distributed to all of you a memoran-
dum which is my per.son.l position, I do not contend to speak for the rest of
you but I will tell you what the ground rules will be. if somebody wishes to
make a motion, unless there are three votes that is willing to hear that, and
I -will just ask for a hand expression to see if there are sufficient people
on the Commission, I will not recognize any motions at this time. In doing
so I will do so under the Charter provisions which give me, give us that
aathority under the 5-clay rule. I will waive the 5-day rule if there are
three people who wish to be heard on this matter. So at this time, Mr. Ger-
stein, I will recognize you, sir.
Mr. Richard Gersteint Mayor Ferre and members of the Commission, my -partner
Murray Sams and I represent Mr. George Knox, the City Attorney. I am here
at the request and invitation of Mayor Ferre and I would like to bring you
gentlemen up to date or, what we know about this and urge, respectfully sug-
gest to you a course of acr_ion. As you know, Mr. Knox has.on one occasion
already voluntarily apf:_)ared before the State Attorney and given a statement
under oath after waiving .;.ir,.unity. In addition to that he has directed a
letter dated April 23rd, 1960 r,�, assistant State Attorney William Ritchie
Who i r: ` ` this inves'�ir-' ;. which reads as follows: You will
please be advised that I am prepared to give the State Attorney's Office a
statement regarding any knowledgz that I may have regarding my contacts or
conversations with Dr. Johnny Jones. I voluntaFily undertake this act out
of my sense of duty as a private citizen, I seek no immunity from prosecu-
tion hased upon my statements, I.am prepared to answer under oath any ques-
tions that you have fully and accurately consistent -.with my belief in truth
p R 2 ^ 19$n
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and my status and reputation as a responsible public official. Sincerely,
George F. Knox, Jr.
I would urge you not. to, as the Mayor lnas suciciested, rush to judgcment in a
situation which is currently under act ivc: b,r t:.e st,.tc Attor-
ney. There, of course, exists in this county a ::undar,_ntal conce2t of Amer-
ican Justice and that is a Of 1:1;.Ui:e:.Sl wh7-c:. m'at be afforded
to Pdr. Knox as it ice; to any person whom accusation has been made. I
would like Mr. Sams, if you will permit him just a mir.'-te, to make a sugges-
tion to yo',i concern).ng Vndt you might do if you nt_t:c an opinion concerni:
whether oT iUt clr. Knox's actions CCin titlitiOli the privatu prdctice of law
which we are confident they do not const.tute.
Mr. Murray lily i``r. I:,iyc)r and iy,emhers cd the Con-iission, it i5 my unr:er-
`itd:,dlrii� thin t-ne're has been a S'.Igges'Lion that. this Cit ;LlOn hu reft'rre.: to
some lnt:t2l>Cr.:un:. body for an opt nion "s to k',ethetr or no— the aC S of
Knox CUriStltlaeC. i prCt1�EOf 1dW. has Cur?' sUt,c'c:Stion th,a.. be
rt!ferrud to v,:ri ',Js o:rjan za,.ion5 wit r, in ?:.:,c tar and namcly the D,i :, . 00,inty
Bar and my cn::L';cntS are only directed to the, fact that the Lade CGL".'_ �.ar
which is a organization has really no setup for r r:de inc Ln
opinion, it would _",Jiy be that of an lndt;!non:e:lt iuwVer, but i dG fcc.-
that if the o Ini._. l n, ant I undi ,rs,-- inid t,::at yc,u Qo w=5G LU have t . ; --c-
tided, .:, Gol:;,: tt: s-.:bm-lt thib question to a to,-f1 :iG .1t1. l::a.__ It
the propel" pl.cQ to Ttlt it wc�u':u bL.' to the F.t Or ", ,h::,:."al'S viilht Wi1Ch
will accent that and will render an, opini r, _:";3e :t of a:,ybody concerned
as to this question. That's all i h.-1,'e tc say.
Mayor Fei'ie: Thank _ of 'Jt' ,7 i. ,,, dr. a:'", , d:: the C: =`2' Jf Miami
I think I have 57_`' i _ ..._ dutllorlty to a,;n t:,dt question. And the
which was di st."ihat,_..' today which o'.:tlined my position on :-his Will bt, c};anged,
I wlil 'i'at.`cr t'hun a nk the Florida Bar, 1 thii,x y-ulre eminu-ntly correctly
and that the Attorne',7 General of the State of Florida is the appropriate place
for us to get that ruling and I will so change that position.
DIr. Sams: Thank you, sir.
Mayor Ferre: All right, unless there is anything else at this time on this
issue....
Mr. Carollo: I'd like to make a statement, if I may.
Mayor Ferre: Ail right, now as I said the guidelines, the rules would be as
follows: That only if there are three, votes at this time, that is the major-
ity of this Commission, as to statements be ore this public body will I ac-
cept any st:yti:ipt:i,ts. You, of Cour::e'., urE tc, Teak,-' any statl-:menzts in
private t.:at you wish or outsid,: o2 -:iis C.oP:`dssiGr,. I will now ask, and
you can do it by a show of 'hands, if them art; ono -ugh of you hi re who wish
to hear this matter at this time for any staten',ent,: ':o be made, is there any-
body here tU w:.shes to hear this ;r;.;tter at t s tine? Ail right, seeing
that there is only o:ie then this matter is not to '.Le brought befoze this Com-
mission at this tia,e.. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
fin
0
? . D I SC'JS5I0;N 1 TLM: HARRY M,
TO _iEER DISPENSING EQUiPMEENT AT THE
ti STADIUM.
)RANG
,.,,,�.., .. -...a,. a.,, ..,,.. .,,.,..., ,.a�.:..e� •sn,..•-.ntr - . �r-.::.►�.�'��.'4F7!+„'. �"�-.a .• �.:.-an:w�w...... .,�, . �.
=.y'��� ► "� _ y� r°r'lid6�iw+�urril�l.+.i - '`-'uYiA'r:u... �•a 'er�i—�-4aoLtd%. �,�.. "e�.;rr
Mayor Fc'rrc • Al', r ii ht-., we're ):Ow oI. if C'm, A wh:._.'1 is of the
beer agret'^-ont witn tr:t: �.iarli Dollr.:ir,s as 11y }:art',' M;. tevc:J,. idr.
Stever:s or thr' representative of the Stevens Co:,pany.
Mr. w1.iila:T. l'OLt..._ Mr. M--i':'01' cnd er:_, ,?.V name is William Potter
Etna I LLT, a r epr., tentative of Hurry M. :.;':vc;r.s, Inc. and I have prepared a
slat+ ment whi..'. _ would like to read at tl is time.
;:: PIU.T ^er: t.X _ . so I.'�. , L�'f'1'.'E y7i1 St ,rt, E xCliS n8, sir. I have nothing On
tt1is matter i:xi:ept Wf t was presented to Ifte tocia1�.
Mayor Ferre: That's right.
Nr. Flum-mer: I understand Mr. Jennings was In posessio,. -.f other
materiai" a.na I'Tr, wanting to know why we are not in i+c:.._ssion. Excuse me?
Well, this genticman said that he delivered to Mr. ennings material.
M1r. Potter: No, may I clarify' ;, ase?
MIr. Plummer: Oh, .;lease do.
Mr. Potter, The information that you have in fror.'. of you now is copies of
the information that was delivered to Mr. Jennings early this morning and
that I asked you if you had received copies, you said no, I prod,..ced copies
for you.
Mr.. Plus.er: So in other words Mr. Jennings did not receive them until this
morn inc;?
Mr. Potter: That is true.
tel:. Jennings: About 11 O'Clock.
Mr. Plummer: Fine.
fX. Potter.: Again, try name is William Potter, I reside at 1008 N.E. 94th
Street, Miami Snores. I am a representative of harry M. Stevens, Inc. and
I have a statement that I would like to read to you before we get into our
forlr l pre�-:ent.at or:. A formal presentatiGrl ',,ill be presanted by our Director
of 1`:arketlna, ;: B.-)bent Smith anC l-)repare,� bc)— , :•1r. Robert Smith and Mr.
Phil 1ti111er5, o:r _(nrn Service and Desic . Consultant. I woul.,i li.{(: tii tell
V.7t: whc we are, wn w.- do anLl what we envi slot; the orca:: jt {O'Ni to bt2 in
;i ho - tcrm, by n. "::c, _:s". . -h and long tf i-m as tuna may g.` by. We ui C. a COnC(.'$-
394, hr,;dcuart�rea Jr, New _: rk Cit- . nl. _1ir _S
an, a direct,-)r u: One G: t."1O. e YEt.:lO:;S. Our
tco ndn.erou' -, to mentio nC re, nu,_ ::c'` 1 .C'.`,C:e
13:i3on tir.i, C:i. �C..I1S._u.`, �t7id S r1u1 .lint a-"GILM 1 a.+ c the
new M;Lw ,7er ,� ;w i d: C,.xr,l ex, iu :'way F.-.rk __. t,
•, - ✓llr•j�ilt in
:. usto:,. Tt>.a - _ .;ti..k :''ark in, San. Frar..:isco. _,-Ica
i . r✓e are rovid-
i.na %.oc,,l c,r, : :%C lr,r.. _ _ .'1!'�' aLr'k ails: the
I1Jb.' VC, dri3 _.. the fina.. 3: Wor4l: c OliL a:-,
wl.~_h L_n! :rvicF ,he Ora:,g_' Bowl. t,e nave: 6Lucied the
vi'_:, l 1_:yG• 1, of 1:. 'Ll COME! ,vi:.h a SC:1lit1Gn trlat will
Ci:7Lly F_I:ari..:� _ t• E :Gi ter... u::u .Ac Vc _ ,,_ G:,.'tS a5 wCll as
rcraSln' +.h )C':- C . CI:Gi: C.O .' :C t: " . 'c,i. .�L�e �l' Jj'i'.. :,y Ut.,ti_r :.tacl3
h'i1E3!'•: T-: "'ti!;Slri;la`: S}�u' ., .:ri: 1d;,CJ;.. �:1�� :�:'.::�i" T_cc_'r' G:;_t'G`.iVct is to, spend
lr: oxccss of n397,OO;, 1(J� G : Le,. ills_;Ci1t i'.)c and 15LYi. u lUr: System; that will
meet tn,.: di minds of the' �:..5. i':115 '_;y ,tf:m Will be Capita:l:,uLl, 1-,ermlynerltly
ii,stalled .,nc: will hu,. ;tic of th _' Crdr.c j- e Po
w!. in 3G61CliJn to t:tdL,
tilt- rawly C+i:.r t' CU e.. r. r'C 3:. ,r', i :id CILi? Ut: , k'ltr: O.:1C'r fOoc and bLverage
a, :n'.:.t Gf ot.`:�r fC'Gi: and •', }
The s} Lom teat ,_, goin t, l:)< ex, _led to `,nu is the only way the ;,Gil can
be du:,e tG 2tt•1::1 talc. .;atiiTLr:, i?1^U3. of :c,:.-:GSS.u: r h
evr::utJ to the City and
t0 (JIVt. '.n'.' Ic.?: SC:rvice is i.onc; ovcr,li:v. hc,ve Ilan n-,imi?roux a1 scusslons
W. :1 S_:.. i';r_`� :✓n..dQC:? 'g �'frl L ]F t0 tt:_ �uil :adi:- p. �.a1E iiUyi rliri 5C1rlf P :,t
an(] Wu :.yV; 1UliL 1 CiUI'Si lVE i In d S1 t 1JL1J' whi;ru we
` ^ 4 198G
10`
this to you. Thank you for listening, I want to introduce Mr. Robert
Smith.
Mr. Robert Smith: Thank you. What we have befc.re you is a drawing of the
stadium of it exist!, today, a drawing as to how it could exist in Che future
and then separate individual drawings whi,-,h explain nc,w each concession area
will operate. prey •:,tly on the 9 foot Gth love-, we 1--ve four concession
stands and tGE]r venJinc, areas. Primarily that consists of the total conces-
sion plan. A C'i.::CC _ 1.On area is where SO:ne0:1e 'xrl•.;_
counter t0 :i ....., C+I c`. , a vt_:1.7in(c, are,] W'J'i1C be l:':t lL _o: _: w - ..0 ^bled
given to a venJor w'.i:, would go into, a st:idiu., <Er. _a :: rli a pr,,.i'.ct to a
customer diroc-tly. 1'1e are proposing consif_erzble change here. 'l ie i.lrst
on the dro-_;id 'vel 1S the a66itlon Gf an ice plant. l-,,i-re W111 be two
ice_' mdrilif.iCi_':I" -.. y ants which w_11 sup. -ply ice t_o the entire S`.a 11] G. The
second and fol loc--it.lons will be four perranent. beer pl:li.l::'S Sf.utlo.,5.
These static):.-, .11 consist of large w�.lk-in coolers where keg nt,cr will be
stored. The,, :,: . 10' ;,ted hr re, here and nc-rt. and hQrc.. G:i the qr,iu:,o 1!_ve!
of the: stad;u;- .ay the l'-.ib.lic eye. in xec Zee" .:ottica
beer will be stc,reci. Kug „c ur will be .',: ;ed tG fc,_r �t
_ and
the bottled beer .1 J i,Yo' i' .t by :,uJr6 l: t-� �:`:e ,�Yr i.:stand fc,c. s_,' e.
On this first level 'wc' have .acvo`C': 13,X.,-_ bce.rt, tG c-o:1Ces'6i(-.n .dale's
or to be so_^'.d ov,�r the _-o-,ir.ter to the _, .:o-'>r. Pie have a'_.:,-) ( f
stordCf' of il, � i7GL des of r:eE_'r =o be ,i:sl G a5 c'. V(2, :ul._ ! o be
vendeC ouft ln'.:o the ofandst3n.. itself. IVY+' ",OW .,. _.. aLSC fO lr 17Uryle
sections 1_ho fcn r _ .'o osed fast foot: c, .,_cr;;. :C` 1 ac t JG C?iitF again
will he s ui-pl ie'd r,y !leer from the :i . :_)inq _,t.itlons 'w:iich :1:_t: l0-cateii 1%e'"hind
them on tiiL- Cirol;nc. level. T^ -, 'n_11 have a sales ar Ci'.'i of 20,030 }�nnrs,
Yayor Ferro. , I'm ::Gi::g to have - with all '.]rC rc!z iects - in;Cr2Ut>t
becdu'se Gb'•!J-O'JE i'J the case of Mr. Lioe Carollo whc. •,s ouiT r—t'.1na 5'aLQ'ments
to the cress at r_h s time, I think it is i,:.vorta :: that both he and _ are
able to sc�e the discussion here and, therefore, we're going to take a five
minute break so that everybody can get all this out of their sL,L,:m :and then
we'll come back and do it appropriately. All right? And I a'..,;lo,?ize for
taking up your time_.
'dr. Smith. Thank you.
NiayG_ FE:rre: Ptrha1:s we can get a quorum back on the Commission, now that
we've ma•':_ all the nubllc statements to all the television cameras and radios.
All right, if we can get Commissioners Lacasa, Gibson and Carollo back here,
would you tell the-.7,, that we are 45 minutes behind? All right, could we get
Commissioner Carollo back here? And 'Commissioner Lacasa? Come on, fellows.
You can get TV coverage 'later on in the day. Let's go, go to work. We're
waiting for Commissioner Lacasa an:; ComdrdSsioner Carollo.
Mr. Plurranir: Mr. Mayor, while we're waiting for that, I had asked at the
last Conu-dS::ion Mef-ting that we be pr"i:s,,nte(l today Wit..^. a g3sltion paper, I
hau hoped we 'v':)ti. l c-et it before today &nd i just assume now that you're io-
ing to givtc• it tc: :iomotim,? during the uay, asking for t.ne posture o" the
we addled to the Police budget last year for additional
policemen, w',d, th - .ire on that was _:rid where: we can qo from there. I
have not receive-, l ,: as of vet. We'll be receiving it toddy?
Mr. Grimm: C mr.in ;ior.e:_ , y;_ur office received it I think a couple days ago.
Kc,yor Fc-rrt: All _+.;. w•- i-e wai.tir-g for Commissioner Lacasa, will Commis-
sioner Lacasa uz., i e's holding up the proceedings. Ali right,
we're now ready to
Mr. Smith: Thane: yc :. �.: what you have before_ you is a drawing that
indicates th" pre_CI'l: C" :;1;� 1 _`aC;-1it1e5 Ji_ t.h_, stadium as they oxiSt
toda y or �.s^:. os'_ c. l,�at Si.dSOn. .ue next drawing indi-
c,i,I is the futurC uI.: c r.;- 1:),,3t .ons pis we perceive' 4.1,.: 1:1(in should be
W.-:en it would be 1n 1i.', : 7 lT_1on:;. And w::at we're gui: t0 d0 1:3 rLVleW
thuse li:E'ai Condit -ion::. .';,.: >t. thing t.nat we m+ ^,t1Gne:d was t ,•
_tion of an fah tort', �.r. I ..
t.'• o. ' heir to ; „ E:; cc _ cwn . C'.. lint,
10e Y,ly'']i:'('Ccf..._.,. .__:e Z �c+'.to W.11 be located On the jro' na
it_ -:'el. _.._ See i:OLd .:!"i cf gnu .. W.- like: to talk ahout", thC' :e are foLr and
t.:it_ f cSrt' f: = ii.Y.._ J!•C2' .. ;�T)C: � . _.:t �7G., '.v:i: :-.. y - _
bo.cer })Umi)anC systti:• LG _t1_rt`1, `bi : -hc f f- last foJ:.
C .,cam ` ;.ohs on the
90 foot level. in addition to doing tlt if.'�l ZOur s',dt10 :S wl ii also store
case beer which will be used for vending in the stands. These four facilit-
ies will supply us with 23,000 draft Leers whic'r: wi::.i. Lc) l:u^r;E ; ut, to the
.our fast food sections and 41,000 bDttles beer whi : w__l lie out for
vending in the bieach,:r urea. We have presentee a ir,,;:h allows us
to drastically....
Mayor Ferre: We have a question here from Fat";er ,ib_,on.
Mr. Smitn: Yes, I'm sorry.
Rev. Gibson: When you say pump, what do you mean?
Mr. Smith: Okay, the word is a-tually not pump:'. The systein involves takin
i:: a large container and, f OrG1:1c: it with pres-sure through a l inE,
or a hose to a locatior. say 50 feet awdy w-here the bees- is then d:spf:nse.d
from. a valy' . •. its line Of hose is ln6'tlli:(= on,l 'nis d YCiritjerc::',t f1CW1:"::j
through is sr) t`,at_ it kaeps the be(,r at a It r' ,,ns tna`_
beer Can be 3t.'-'l(.'d .in ii diStan' loCiit'_On V%t ;t-cved Wh( r(:: I'ill stan('ino. So
t.Ile pGlnt. 1 _t �,ailly isn't 17,11mped, it+5 i)C a(G with 1)i.(.St: i'l 1'iE' ;ia'✓(r isjSG
IirLS('ntCd a ,'OnC. 7t w:-;c.^. ia11ow:i U C:ia IQi. A li.' four ldC9t2 : 1: ;'. fOOv
Gn t}it: 9 foc- F) ,.-vuI, TnPse cOncoss.cn be cc,,2,,ic
and a fas,. `lo:. sy:;tE:- W1hii:I1 61 1.)WS the ^U •' :: _'r Co t.,Y: 'i(ji:, i }: :11 ?rc,
uct up, turn, an(3 pad' Y rom a ca!mier. Ou_- t- i ..:Crier,.--e ., i t'.', his tv/ .L o:
cu,s- -On Shows that we jreatl'f Li,Ct:dSCr i:':C revo,_.o :n _:1CSC fo-; - arras.
1`7uXt, we WCYu.,: :GY,)_,Q ..,'1C, ,"C''t'- `t'. -:, i=
1evol. iet .'.( Suy (1( :.: L: ti. t a Vc'n,1 I:,C7 S cd�l:... 1:• i
ace:, ..,::d ricks L2",) a .he t icac:....., and
.Sells it t'Ct::E "iahlic. -e_6;e fo"'I Vi1i' 9i.1 W:ilii(d 1)0 rC- _ ii C;i 'hatiI
_.3 t Ili L t; 'li :nt :C•C 50:.a an(. Y,3 .i"tt:1: T:.i'• ,_ n1 111"C L4,-_1V.r :dil
stands not been U£=ii rOmotime son( ti::.a it.-errcu ;:('. the
Seatback ,GCat1w:S. fC •'::... i l;i tr,eSC WE:_!E; lt_,C1t1-): .. _.;1:. 1JE3ni.r
6L 9nds and six ic`_ cl :', Eas 4t .. _>4'(: ,; w' rIC•.. t-10 '1
YoGt 6 itvc.L _ ;.o t'he 3t foot IEVC'1 ail,:: TUYCSently n , i:it 36 foot 1Yvul there
are four co:iceSSlofi stands; tWG V;...11' ..foal 1C',..:cl 171—C. Y@'i to
a.' the _'A ft.ot level on the :::d zone slaci tl;' below it a cor,.bination :,tand
that venas an] se.is to t;;e public. Unc.er con�,tru,.t�.on now are -.-,ur large
rooms in t.ht c. {tr(::'(` Correr5 of L. e Staczlurl. 'Ii these foLir rCJ..ns We
will instal. Yf-'.IY:LC Lat1Gn w't.i,-'n +:1, "old Uas,. I`eer which 4.._, ..i• car-ieCl
JLIt Or 'J•cnriu,u tU z7'ib11C. v' W1II ,,<3VL a ca77a.-i; Gf `;' 000 bot_.cs Of
bec?r IZGT fc,:i v e n lnr, ` atic,ns Gn, this -evel. .i.ese _,Dur VC;,_ii_n` stations
W111 a1so n.C,:aoC.- : I: nkllirter ¢t;,: SO a for vel-, llI .u. lr;e (X15t1:1Cj t=WG `Jd:iQ-
_ng Stdtlof,:i W-;'G.iCI :.(:, /,6 'JU:'\'CZ C7 1ntU IGrCc_''510:: Stflnds for sellih�; to
the p:il 11= Ci1rcctly, Aoaln, We Would use the wc: if; ipee6 i;yste-
ailOWinC t`,_ c,.i,*.Om(r t.G pick hl product d? n'f-SE C'iCB 3G b::'iriC' ..—,e
prJdL:ct 21O''. .: a:: i 'r. �ifiEi;'E c.r(J tWU re.m. ,ini: Sru11i COnCL55iGn5 3^,C two
7Lnut we wrul•: Ye-( gLip 'All': f.' l'11:': ?.^,t t11dt WOulC. o low
i:s to SerV:ce the nubli. In a muC_h i&Stcr method thr(DUCTh the usQ of sa:ia
Iast-fill:, ,_-,d .. Sn- ea frank u)a 1I)c two smaller
because of :h(. 'YE I;t first aic StatlGnS and are i0:=at_ea here and :,erg
ant' t:hc' •Otnei_. are he-e and here. s'inaliy, on tii(_ _y : UO': level End ::cne
section we \0':.11': rework t:lis 5'.dr.0 tG allow fc,r a Sher 1 Wdik through Stand,
uri !1iS i._OU1Ict, tur:-incj r�ni.l w'(�l,tiincj t::rvLGn a CdShl(Y
section, and WGL_ .. T,_ 'ork the ba::k room, if.iitail new . 7Ast-, _, l i C ]lU'uIl zcr
v c n :11:g oI sod_n . :ranks. That comr)l,=tu:S Our rc:vi,:w of t :- 36 :.00t level
c.n:.. W(: 'IiCiV(_ .., _ .' -'> tale Ub i.VOt Levu; .'r,ci: S'.:a::i'.iw„ :•;,S'_�....._;j has t:'lree
lev('is, C.-IS lc tllt_ '.G'• '�.eve.l. At the close of last _Lwascn ':.acre we:E two
CG:::r . _nciinq arc -as an:: then on th._=Xrrere r e Id :,one
there was :1 C iii_,;nu'.lU': V( __i,n( and ir('_a. -J n:>ir c,, :IOW
uncl(:rway f o- .;,o ,1:.. YC)O_ i:' iuilt cC nCC_s,Sion stands. We, will USF these
e".L ht sta::']::, .:1r ].: DJ :, ;1C(rSi t: r:.. to t.^.f: UD11C Si`i.1r,, franks and soda
aI:d two w-i l us;,-: Eitat1UL,S where we Wil.. 1:ackaC(: s rLinkfurterS
and suciu an;: ve::ded into th,. grarlcS'_i nd. also have
bpot�.,_•.3 ('ic.:i _lent,_., .E' :('.. .: (tf(:.. WL...:i 1--ir wl. Gc' IJt.'Qu In
On d ilI(1L_.,_ y ..) i:t.1, tIU:. .;i:UrCctlI' ,:U th.- Cn r_ � _ C
e,Id:i we a iki.:-, : (:workinc zre- to
ue
beer co;ir:es, .Of. G 1 _.-'L 1 Li'C: :1_ tQ iLu. L'abll. hE. _.. rn,:!s C,
two far Coif,.. ., WC: .4.11 .p _tW: iUY:c_.),C Z_C:r J(c:.C_. w'::(:rC• d Ciudnt-
l.tv of bacr wii.1 })C- brC in p laCr - r1GY T.Q the cjcimL. f:iS Wi11 ..;IVE us
a beer selllny capac. u„ t'nl. icvc_ of cii!:,ut 6,000. That
'raslca'L1\' com-
Pletus the plan if mon(-: <?.�': t:,(,•_: w-'rE' r:0 apt on. What WC Would l l.ke t0 d0
aUW 15 CY.1)1,.... t:Ci +'?V' w'ni:t W c na te1•; fael w111
be :ion^ b,, aJ;j at. 1V'.-.. _ _ t•. . ',n f)aCk .?''O me 9 6 craciE level.
On the 9 four ii ^rade level. -,,:e W:..: lr.:,r.:...1 , cf ni t.e v nc;:`,.- {cc plants
and ; have given you a sne(_t th_: r-.� ks i':JW:: t.Iu S U `.fr_- equipment
to G ur ,:e11 iL and NE rt ._I:'! ti.. w _ ..uVE 5 : Yti :',
- �' r 3 t::1YC; of the CU_it
Of this ice plan,. which is dFProxlmateiy a � :, 0Jv "10cated for the selling
of l::�er. :i( rc 'Are `ou,- beer pumping and :.tC r_lr, ' st: ticr.s on the grade
level that Will :;tore keC; End case bU(7I for VC--inc. `I fuse four arec.5 have
Yt
r. e;.
a cost of 92,000, it is shown on ,your sr,ec:t as 6�_D,00," or c:.e :•our
and 12,000 for the installation of the cement par:. In adr4i=iori t,>
another expenditure of $"_il, 00 is re?uirt:. to bring th,- beer frc-n t'ne :,tcr-
age area up to the fast food areas. That ir:ciLdes the fast -fill di.s:,ensing
devices and the valves and the lines and the insulation mQterial. :hat
basically completes our plan for the 9 fo,,t 6 level for this season. On
the 36 fort lev,'. , at:,.:n let me rer::ind fo•_ir rvor.S that
have 3ust b(_.,n recen*.:y constructed aria in those `c'.:c rooms we :,ave installed
or will instill rc'f r :cer.ztf'.i bcxus wr ic`. will hole` •1 7 , I C'G bottles of beer
for vendin(, :nd they ;,,ive ci 'total Cost Jf 45, 0J jO. They are item
22 and 26 on your 5I:CC' 'A1S;o locati_a in tneSe vC3nainq statl-_'ns will t fast -
fill equl ,)Tent for sofa and packaging and heating equij-.:�ient for rhL! Vt_nCiing
of frankfurtU::s. 11vvinq now up tJ tiie 68 fuot level, 6 cc;,Cc_-,Slor, Stands
will be inst, lle_' and are Dart of tnis pace:age to include r:i anti an,-1 soda equip-
ment. Two Ltari:':- will be devoted for vendj,.�j with fast- i;. ejuipment. The
two stands on '..ht -n6 will be converted t_o seii beer over t:.a counter. They
have a price c: �7,430. The reimaininq :ieCr selling in thi:; urua ii _n-ex-
pense, it's exist-ng portable equiJm_-nt •. ,c: also Ll ar,:a- i:-, the
end will G) :Ur a vi:l• ilie3 tatlJi: where will :;e :.'rGuc71': up in ::,s�LIadled
containers prior to the Came and then soli to the customers. The total pack-
age is y3'.J7,000 for the installation of "she beer system that we feel will ser-
vice tiia stadium.
i;,-iyor Ferre: Would you repeat that again?
Mr. Smitn: Okay, the total cost c`' '_ne. beEr dispensing system related to sell-
ing beer in this stadium is- ,3d'9. This will allow us to have on band in
storage 120,000 i)ee: _:. i ,u:: very sim?ly C11,111-:US Ol:t to 'J Leer i:. vending
and 30,000 :.n Gi::. >: lOn Sales CiVE'r the counter. i:iut L:ideally co:~,pie".es our
plan and what we feel can be installed for August ]-�t;i this year.
Mayor Ferret .,ll ri'_:nt, we'll open this up for questions at this time but let
me understand this right. What you're saying is that i::stuad of the 5330,000
we were talking about, or whatever it was before, the Dolphins are r.c".v going to
spend $397,000 under our acr.:anent for this beer dishensir_; ec_:ipr.u:;'. and in
effect we have now abandoned the old pu:r._iny system all over the stn"lum, we've
also abandoned the elevator idea and this is a substitution thereof.
Mr. Smith: That's correct.
Mavor Ferre: And you think, and the Stevens Company which has now been retain-
ed, how long have you beer, retained by the Dolphins to do this?
Mr. Smith: WE are in the process of negotiating a contract with them right
now.
Mayor Ferre: I see. So now the Dolphins through marry M. Stevens will install
this system Ti-,at will cost close to $400,000 and you feel this is the quickest
most practical way of getting beer into the Orange bowl.
Mr. Smith: Absolutely, there is no doubt about it.
Mayor Ferre: Gk. 15c•r what is the maximuur, that we thought we could serve in
beer at one time? Didn't we talk about 150,000 beers?
Mr. Smith: I'm ::mot privv to that information.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Jeri:._:iqs? When we ffirst started talking about pumping and
all of that you made s,.r,e '-stimateE. as to what the income was to the City.
Didn't we have in t,:etC_ i53,000?
Mr. Jennings: Per game, sir?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, sir.
Mr. Jennings: No, half a million.
Mayor Ferre: 500,000 beers in a game? No.
Mr. Jennings: No, in the course of a year for Dolphin games only we estimated ,
we could sell in the area of 5 to 800,000 beers, about 50,000 per game.
�..
Mayor Ferre: Since there are 11 games'or 10 games is it?
Mr. Jennings: 10 games.
^ 1 "--j 11 1980
Mayor Ferre:
So we're talking now of tie capacity u_ .:,. ling 1,250,OOC if
every beer were sold.
Mr. Jennings:
Yes, sir, that's the capacity.
Mayor Ferre:
So in other words this comes within what we said could be done.
Mr. Jennin(js:
:Jore thar, what we said, yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre-:
Okay. And you think this will be done by mid August?
Mr. Smith: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre:
01-,y , any questions from members of the Curhrr:ission? Mr. Plummer.
Mr. Plummer:
_ first of all, Mr. Mayor, I'm really at a loss and since
th,.se. ;ccple
ll,v r't even been engaged, you said you're still negotiating, is
t:-,at correct?
Mr. Potter.
We are in the final stages of coming to a firm agreement, yes,
,L. Plumber:
But nothing is finalized and signed?
Mr. Potter:
we don't have anything in -:citing, no. sir.
Mr. P1tLmier.:
Mr. City Attor-•c•,•, our contract, as I recall, is with the Dol-
phins, Ltd.,
is that
?ir. Alvarez:
if I recall yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer:
All right. And is there a provision in that contract for sub-
leasing?
btr. Alvarez:
I'm afraid I couldn't answer you, sir, from memory.
Pluiner: Mr. Zennin(%i, is -here to ✓our recollection? I don't recall in
t u-!. contra -t the'r,. was L be an',' SUb-IE`tting to another company, do you recall
w,,t,ther at appears ii. the contract? tRESPC':SE) That's just great.
.r,oes SOr^c .,E' from Stevens know that that orovision is in the contract?
1!r. litter: The a.r ran-,ement that ic go_nc to be made between Stevens and the
Dolphins is not going to be conaidercd a sublet.
mr.. Plummer: well, in other wor,is what l'rr, yetti ng to, the point that I'm
getting to, when obviously this system, fails hecause we've been told this
system, by M`7. Robbie, cannot work when it wa7 a di.sa-_�vantage financiall to
hire and we •N•_re told the syste.r., co._.. no` 1 want to know that we're
go. -rig to h,_ve pint. .),_,_-son we're tc, 1:,E! ate_` L t-C- finger at and
say you mad,._ a m! S' ., ;c: because I Jon't want T_o be out on a
lil W. This is now 41th system tht nds Jac'! L,YGy,_.B C !De o_`.'_ this Cornis-
:lon anC. eaLh la:.d ..y" 1' ^r_ has hoer: S(ild Co this L0:1T:.SS1G::, "It is the only
way, no ether way '.ti.:._ vr�_'; " anc. we have r,Ow seen 4 systc.;,s.
Mr. Pc,tter: WPli, L 1',i<,. _ be able tc respond to that.
,.,r.. Plurner: well, .. nt ter. answer as to whether or not the contract provides
for passing} t�:t o.ick. : don't recall that being in the contract and that's
ul:uviously what this is. Mr. Crimm:-
N:_ . Grim n: Mr. Mayor ..n.-i rs. _rs of the Commission, the City's contract is
witl'. the Loll hin,. .',,-C in the City enters into contracts
w.th contracture or pr:i. t RBlOr.::l5 ar,3 t.'ios- professionals or contracts hire
is Erl:_ t_aE t..ch:')nSlbl__t'✓, 1 gliESi i'.it playing lawyer
r.aw, of the: Drjlphi:.5�, '_hi .-stem tuY t'he City and for the orange Bowl.
Now I think In de.allni; wit.`1 this 'probleir. you have to keep in mind what your
ob Ective is and your obi tivf_ is have beer and the concession in the
Oralhge bowl.
Mr. ?1x7r..c' . N3, . i', you're key ir.grtdie::t whicY. _`, t:n t the
leer and concessions he aelivere(d to cli_r;ts in a proper manner. That
was the concern of this Co^v;ission when we wort, told by t,.e experts who said
the other experts were wrong.when they said the beer would he served cold
and this is %he only way that it can he done, ncc)w wc'r•-� J _ tcnin to u third
a
set of C•:•:n ey*-s whu s,,iid no, It can't wor:,C. This nor ^.1�SiC�n, if }'OL ".': i l
110, Pam.
recall, at the last meeting was concerned that the beer was going to be served
warm. This is also a very key ingredient.
Mr. Grimm: Let me see if I can put in context what I understand the gentleman
to say. Remember now the original agreement, the one that is signed now says
a permanent pumping system.
Mr. Plummer: right.
Mr. Grimm: t(-: came hack to the City Commission and suggested that that system
be considered a modified Dumping system where it incorporated some pumping and
some delivery directly into the stands out of bottles or cans in soft contain-
ers.
Mr. Plummer.: With elevators.
Mr. Grimm: Now, elevator, sir, is just a manner of getting the beer from
the ground to some storage facility. So if you're primarily concerned about
how the beer is transported in the middle of the Week is oppose- to i:ow it is
served to the customers that's a different problem. So if we have to run i.t
up ramps to get it into these coolers or if we have to bring it in by elevators
I don't know that that's germain to the problem. So I think yc,,, has::_
corn now if I un::ecrstand you is whether or not h)eer will Win_ s --vt— `,o the cus-
tomeis in an acceptable form.
Mr. Plummer: That i6 o.ne concern. T,cf me, under:tand.. Mr. Grirr=, .I am told
by the Clerk, and my memory is r ;. -..',at it used to be; ar.d that mod...f.e:, ver-
sion was not, in fact., -A,,. _ : od 1)y the Co7r:nlssio n, it was i.; a SSE d a:;d every-
thinci. So t har 1_a'• _. :;ie that at this point the original contract of the super
pu:.ping syst�:n still what is under mandate by contract unless modified by
this Cor..mission and to my knowledge we have not.
Mayor Ferre: dell, that's very simple, we can make a motion to accept the
proposed system at this time.
Mr. Plummer: only w;th the experts, of course, the same experts coming back
and saying once again that this system will work.
Mayor Fcrre: : think that's a matter that this Commission in its majority can
either accept. or reject.
Mi. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, we've not had the material until today, I surely can't
make a judgement factor.
Mayor Ferre: J. L., look, I understand your feelings and I understand where
you're coming from. I have a difference of opinion and if the majority of the
Com;:iission wishes to agree with trying to stop this frorr: proceeding then that's
Okay, that's will o' the majority. I have no problems, with that but I
think there i:., , I mean we all know where we're at ina _ think it is a
matter of either on wits, this o: ;: you wan*-- to Stoic it,
find, mare your move :..i let's see. See, look, I 'na pen to think, �j. L., frank-
i'J when you cam,,' 1') 'w'i ._ 'his idea ofL:ecY U4 tU - r.Jt you, but the
^ol �nli:S JO :tC _ e C m
Z rC'd' CliS Sr an E .1cfVC a lOt G= prO )I -. 5 Wit),
that because t.:,:i`'s -e:;uire a tremcndous cooling; system and there's
nU way you can u,:i L'.`;at fc _ an.,; ;, 's50, 000. In pi.t Ci W:.e:; y01 c tuTt
talking about t?i�'.'t'._O,':, j%OW .lUVutCrS art a great idea but you're riot going
to put in an tnan ; ..OG,000,by the time yo•.i put twc of them
and you start fu..),_::c, UI'i wit':; that it's a great idea but I don't think
that really s_eaks to the ,�;tem ita�Af, that's just a transportation method.
Mr. Plummer: isut ti:at was :;o*._ our it:ea, Maurice.
Mayor Ferre: 7 un::r.r<;tan ` e.nci I don't ,are whose idea it was, the question
is - m.iy I fini:,h? I'.'s a question of the Practicality of it. Now I want
to tell you that I c aide'': be happier, co see that finally that Mr. Robbie
and the Dolnhins have gu ten a pr-)fessional outfit in here by the name of
Harry M. Stevens that I've ncvu-� neard of before. I've never heard of them
before, I'm sorry.
Mr. Plummer: One of the finest in the world.
Mayor Ferre: I don't go to horse tracks Lut I see that you do Candlestick
Park and Fenway Park and the Giant Stadium and Shea Stadium and all the tracks
around the country and obvious these are people who are pros in this business
and it isn't that they're coming in her(.: finding out how to do it, they do
rt
this, this is their business. And when vo%. cor:,e L % L_=cm;rc-nd a system
which is obviously not fabulous in its conception _ and practical
I feel a lot better about thl:> frankly ia`,:1 _ fuL:. that f(,;u're
going to soir•et,:ing which I thin:: is t(- -L drex:y as c)iping
beer all J\'c that 5t3 ::fill:', but that ;list i";:l';. J a lot `+OrG CO:MJn
sense. AiU,� ,_ ie fact trint you're w11i::.C; t0 another JG or $60,000 to
3o it i. :_o m� .:I] i.r.::icatio:+ taut ob•:io1sly you must agree and believe with
the pr�Acticall,: L)t it. I'.. reacy tJ (1o.
Mr. Carollo v-. Grir , since I was nut i] murd) if Lr..... G"^'G1S510', W.nC,7,
this :iscGssior first cai',c bUrore this Co.-.nissiUn I wouid iitit yJu to Correct
for me any wrong illiL Sions that I m1C.^,t nave. it is my und,:rstandl ,cj ,L-.at a],
this tiro til.:'. • h,_'n :iii was given to 1.1r. !•'.obbie, this COI -.`Tact with the p,,=p-
ing system, tr._t ' h.:rl were, several Ut h(_r _;Cili)crations that .titre wl'illn(- to
give the City rc.-ro :^Uney their Mr. Robbie had sucicestcd and this system that's
being present, W. Ari I correct or not, Mr. G.:i=,,,?
Mr. Griixn: i -on t; K;,ow n3w 'O ,',n s:c_ t.,a j._�t10" , Ccrn•i_; .on_ ,
you must :gee. i:, mi.r.G au.:hcri.zld Fir, exten •fan G` *^._ . riobbie's
cont!act bas.:d on curtal.n provisions being Il",et. And what your conflict right
now is 1s to wi;ethc:r or not those iirovlsicris are, In fact, ueing met.
Mr. Car"'•110: '': Cl +:' C10 iS this. .'.I-, --he fi= _ . - r.U•7u lei
tht' Comnission on to 7o witn a _+':^'�� my S.'.:::'_ . i7�,, _,nt0 sCrving beer
cu` o: cans ,r boutl,.s were there not GL',t.L" Cu p:>Ic....Gr;S t[,n'_ were willing to
give the Clt:' irD; e money tnan Mr. RUti".I»E was in tf,i5 S} SI:F.Ii tr.at' S being prccs-
ented now:
Mr. Grime•,: Tc. my the City never receive_ ::ormal D13 for ._sptnsing
beer In the B--wl wh].c.:-i would inaicatF_ a gredtcr coat. Remu.-d)er t (: Com-
Irassior. a� t:c:int c a bluu ribbon committee to t:Ir_ percentage that
the City was goir., to get as a result of the concessions for beer in the Orange
Bowl.
Mr.. Carollo: J. L., I sec: you shaking your head and since ws c'on't ha^e our
first frier,, here today....
Mr. Plummier: when ne's finished I'll be glad to help you.
Mr. Grimm: And as a result of that Committee's recommendations the City Com-
mission ac:'cepted.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Carollo, let me straighten it out for you, and I won't give
you a lot of go'abley-gook, I'll give you the straignt answer. The answer is
yes and no. The yes answer is there were companies who offered more percent-
age, namely 452 instead of 32 at not cost to the City at all back when Mr.
Robbie wa: a'e.,%anding t:iat we pay the $330,,D)G. The no answer portion , that,
J n fact, Mr. Robbie went t0 co,,irt and he .had tn-exclusive rig,-1t fGr one more
year until. hi c..:;tr.act terminate"' this year we coui<: not co business with
anyone else, we hE-,d to accept that.
:4r. Carollo: '-La_'.s r.ct the case now, correct?
Mr. Piurrr:e: No. N(_w, th.n when that came up before this Commission on a
3-2 vote, sG:ueliow cT a::.'' +er mr. Robbie got an additional ter, years? To 1986
concurrent ,.':ti: hi:; .._-ntr"ct in the Orange- Bowl for rental for the football.
Okay? He ka_: only _."os�c to get tie beer exclusive until his contract ran
our- but by a vcn..� t:!IS commission - I was, of course, opposed - it
was continued untii 86.
Mr. Carollo: Tn,,nk you :t.'.i:y :ruch, Mr. Plummer. Cn more question, Mr. Mayor.
I realize ,:ncc_ U•.I y !9I:3 E:Y h;l:> ':--en a%?:ay f."O::-. the City For aires- two
.vu ks and we -ion", ,:3'Ju nu'r City At'._•:.r%l:y-nresent today but 1 Would hOL+ that
fS" ,m now on k;:C'r: W�.: ',.:VC SOMCtning as i;'111Jrtanr as this coming; i>efore the Com-
,-1ssion why '_hc:r l%e ..,,':e 'ri:r first st.:ing, c COn:, string or third string here
to advise as Li.,:t we .:c':., ' :w:: all _:.� r•..: is straic;ht. P^or instance, as
whother tti& Dolphins ca:. �;i.bltt tC ..*her ;-<Gt:lc: or not be ]u i I think this
is vvry very important f r "c kr.ow ce:ore we proceed any further.
:-Ir. Grimm- We1� i Lri;:ik !"r. 1 ,6i`., ie'::, :hat YOU COuiC Cet a.: answer to
that question ri(-ht_ now from the pit,• Attorney, that's a legal question.
Mr. Alvarez; ;,nd as; 1 said before, not having the contract before me I
couldn't answer from memory. However, the answer shall be simple enough once
we yet a copy of the a�;reeme%L.
rt
r
Mayor Ferre: Well, let me understand this properly. `hat Mr. Stevens is
going to be a manager, to manage this operation, is that correct?
Mr. Potter: It is going to be a management fee situation, yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Hasn't the Dolphins utilized others to manage the operation
before?
Mr. Potter: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: For example, and I want Mr. Carollo to hear this.
Mr. Plummer: No, that's not true.
Mayor Ferre: Ltt's wait because I want Carollo to hear this.
Mr. Plummer: Th,,t's not true.
Mayor Ferre: And you can challenge it after I make the statement. Mr. Carollo,
in the past the Dolphins purchased this contract from Restaurant Associates,
Zum-Zum and subsequently contracte,l with Restaurant Associates for a while
In the b,ainninc, tht.!m Lo r-,ta nage the system at t. orFiC.c
i don't sce that t.hi:: is any r_i-,"n th 101. _ s hai_ i':-Gvlously
done. And as you s,.Ld, of course, you weere not ..C?:,.'.iS'SlOn b,:iory and
y:Du were nut aware thaL that was the Sy:,LC-,;, t: a- wa:1 used before. 'i don't know
wnet:ler this can be construed as ? . ,z-contract or rcitt,.er as a manaa,.ment con-
tract to Yu:i `.hi cuncesslc)l:' wculd as -Me. t:.&-_ :. hF'
enouc,h iak,,'crs and l C':' icy«_ ice to be able to live withi:-. _i:e contra::-L. Assum-
:nu that, t.:-ier_ _ , T_ don't see that this is a mayor Y lE ^. for at this
t:me. But n1--tirally before we finalize we would req.:i_e a lec:al opinion ircm
the City Attorney's Office.
Mr. Carollo: Maarice, let me tell you the bottom line or what i. not,iering
Mil. What concerns me is that 1 want to :Fake sure that the ci` .zons o: .'•aaml
which are really over taxed as it is now get the maximum a.:�un� t:o_y ..:n out
of the City facilities for the City so we don't have to throw more and more
and inor.� burden upon, the taxpayers of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. C.�:rnissioner, you're completely right and, of course, you
were not :sere again to know that the Orange Bowl has never taken one cent
from the cax rolls of the City of Miami.
Mr. Carollo: I realize that, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: And has not oniv been self-sufficient and self -supportive but
has at times contributed to the General Fund.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, where is Mr. Jennings?
Mayor Ferre: He wf,nt to get a copy of the contract.
Rev. Gibson: well, the question I want to ask, and I want a yes - no.
Mr. Plummer: ?here :.e i�, Father.
Rev. Gibson: Bcauti;.ul, let him get to the mike. Mr. Jennings, last time we
met and dis,r.�ssed ii:is matter the system presented to us we were told at that
time beyond a question, w"s tha most practical reasonable economical and sensi-
ble. I thought whc.n I :o.ed that. Lime or when it was presented to me at that
time that we :.ad _. tti,., '.hcs matter. I don't want no if and maybe, perhaps.
Wasn't that the under: tar.;::nc.?
11r. Jennings: Yes, that w.,s the elevator system that the City administra-
tlon was r.ecor,:narid ia,; at tt,at ti:r.e.
Rev. Gibson: Right, N';_ r. happencd?
Mr. Plummer: Also the Doi_-r.ins recommended it and agreed to.
Rev. Yes, since, and w: th.-aght we 'gad that thing put in a package and
we had gone home and gone to sheep -'nothing to worry about. What happened?
Mr. Jennings: 71Wo things happened, sir. (1) On further investigation of the
cost of elevators, the cost of installing the elevator system, it was found
that that system would have been much more expensive than the $330,00D.
11110 �ya
r t
Mayor Ferre: How much more?
Mr. Jennings: It was approximately $410,000.
Mayor Ferre: Just fcr the elevators, not to include the re`rlgerdt.,o:, dnd by
the time you fini.shen with the refrigeration you wvrc up to a million dollars,
is that correct?
iti41. Jennings. Yi:i•, tlI", an, t.lat did not l..Cll:::f _:;J:'.._' 1C f_:i.n' docks C}iiit were
conslG.:red i C iI ,-,r Lant cy CL _u'vi.ns } ,>O. le. .gill � --,3,ya iuCle.: tno
E? ievators, 'ill Shd1 ;,, ir. G'•:liux words tc� <'�t the � 0 ,L �F't i_ s. y;;tcmn th. t tN,-, ln-
V1Sl.OnCd t_'J:".leC u'_ t0 ';:C moltj eXC)`Cnlv(- t.11 a,l wC i. tG thol1Gi.1 It was going
to be. I siii: L:.;'1 4:i.rE two ruaSOns,the second reason wd5
imately that t.i,7, E,,rry even:, L.C.)rp. rriv( on tllf' SCc?nC Sri: indi :dt-e(:
Lhat iii their l:i_. _G; cis the pc s nective c.Jn::e6Fa—cnc ire at thu st,iGl;i:;: that
tnis new syst... w' u,:--u,:iiy VTe des, 1rable. They felt very stroncly ahcut
what t}.ey LTCt 0 SL.., t.G yvt toddy .
Rev. Gibson: what I don':, unc-.erstand is how is it t}.at we have been at this
t}.ing all this time and all of a sudden Lhe Stevens outfit Comes up? Why, Mr.
5te.ver.s - Sir, since you rey)resenr_, didn't you know about this? Did I hear
say you lived?
..r. Potter: minmi S;lores.
mayor Ferre: Don't you represent t':le Dolphins? who co you represent here?
Mr. Potter: I re;r,i:tee:nt h rry M. Stevens, Inc. as the foe;: concessionaire
for the Dolphins. All right?
Rev. Gibson: knit a minute, sir. Oh, they swear that of all the guys up
here this guy hGs the greatest capacity to bring it out clear and ;wain.
Listen to this. Fo',j '.ive in ::iami Si-iores. we've been fi,;'r.:.ir.r, anc, working
over t},is thing for years. Okay? Ne have gor.c all the rc'.itcs ,I- o= the
rVliteS cir,C: al'.. of a a-c;u an wt3're di-,G..- t0 t '4 :ic cap
"Ou C="-t: Cn t}i2 LiC .:i h,:,w, _:.c noint r iLi.ii: l:i C...t.:L.Y w_ ':!'-=c h-a or wt:
•r,arn iiot ,.i3. :.:.w : vOLed last time with the under-:ian3ir.,j t :at what was
rG6CT,t not yG':, p1i isC J::'t to};E i OCnsE t0 iatJ C•1 C3' C' }'Ou wire:i t
here - what we to was ti:i. is r--c.:'s answer to the + 1C.. And &11 of
d sliUCen GOG Cidn _ ar—wer us. Ycu suc _'".. sneaz'` _.'.cj clergy-
m,i%, I know tha- 1ci nc:ti•gkj betty r than any Ot:iC i i.dnc;:ac,C. Okay. 1 don't
..._efstar,3. Mr. 1 wi h Mr. 'sra ;siu was :,trc. _ 3on
}iJW YOU 31.1 fai uc: to get ail of tnc info r iatir,-, to Us �1.: cn YOU :oMc '_J
Ir,=, I want yc,- to I:c:te how '.1 n lke all Ut:icz" 3 -- t''1.... 1'.0 staff I Sag! to
the staff civc, m t::c? infor-mation. .Oc: .:aVe :.:,u taC11 t.y to y'Ct L':iG a iOr'.d-
ti0:1, it. :JOw if yo'.: come Z'.`r a serf-,;.. . knc-w whurc to 'i0, ^.an.
''+Ow, Mr. Mafior, 1 don't undersvanul what you all are GJi nc to us - riot you all,
`Jot. Know. 1 C^'t understand what's ha-pe nln", that's all I'm saying. And
I wart a Fi%rt:.ram'_ '.t c XJJ anatlon W ly this system now, and you cave :nc another
one at the last mec, ing. Okay? fiat's all I'm asking.
Mayor Ferre: A-1 ric-;h_, 1-111 tell you, have we got a copy of the contract
now?
Mr. Alvarez: It's cn its %,ay, sir.
Mayor Ferre: P;L, ha';.: & ':-hole bunch of children here, and I've already been
told three t..mes got to get back to the school so we'll wait
until you look at the contract and y�'.i meet with the Stevens people to talk
about it an"' then we will take this up after we get through with these pres-
entations.
/"
3. PLAQUES,-)R-SP,�TATICNS, CERTIrICATES OF ADPRECIATION
�= AND MI SCELLANE.OUS I T EMS.
�',•:*!n�p,,�rrnw�a•W�'*�'�^cr+�Q.� .�4°!�''�"'"':��s. r!1.�'•+t,�Sw.••'.r.:,
1. Presentz,t.i4n of City of Miami Corununity Dwelci)c:_:lt Certificates of
Al: arc c1�:tion to the Principals and Art Teachers of schools that ),irti-
C 1patit'd ]:1 the "11 I Co111C1 Char, je ::1' Neig-,I)orhood It lti0' lU LGJK ..ir:e
This Project".
2. Presentation of a Proclamation to Mr. Euripcdes Riera, Executive
Director. 1,,.-i American Chamber of Commerce designating the week of
April 13 to .:e 19 as Pan American Woek.
3. Presentation of a Proclamation to Mr. C:i i-,aylord Rolle, Founder of the
Dr. Martin Luther Kind, Jr. Mem0flal Brotlle.rhood, Inc., designating the
month of April as Afro-i'urerican Press D:onth.
4. Presentation of Kcys to the City to the Bank of Bilboa, S.ain U1,Ln their
grand opening in this City.
5. Presentation o 11�.irtnday cake to iatner Theo6ore R. Gibson on the
occasion of his 65th Birt(3a•,.
6. Presentation (:• i-ro ' amation to Ms. Laura May Rc)_t , i�:.csident and Mr.
Joel Fir.,---xecutive Vicc-Presi.de:a, Cultural. Arms Society designating
Thursday, April loth as Cultural Arts _:ociet'.,
7. Presentation of a Proclana :ion to Mir. i\;:lph t'ValteY ALC:atrOL ', Mr. James
A. Progis, and Ms. Cami.la R. Taylor, Directors, Latin M.utii; ,_)nference;
designating the days of June 6 thru 8 as Latin 'dusic Conf,_rNnce DWIS.
B. Presentation c a proolu:::ation to .... Alicin iiarr_Lr, :residun't _ the
American Realty Group, ci:signatinj April 24, 1933 as World Service Day.
9. Pr�senta:.ic cf a nt-�tlfcinent Pla,7ue to riaroid r._r in appre_iation of
rllE, r.:,rC ..har. 2` year_, cf Service to tn�: C:1*; . ..i
4. ALTERNATIVE SITES FOR MARITIME MUSEUM.
:l3iOr CiI I f - Ver; baa aJJut
t:)r two ;;ours 30 'Atfjoing to ta'r:(_ you a little t . o: :)YIcr anc.- ism going
to reCOLI"il: CyU'_ :'t time. We li CUmO bdCf. to tf1C: DO1?)n1.nS iar:E.Y On.
Mr. W. Tren' German. -'C t:i1 :}S you, Moir. Mayor. Mr. .'`,'_'C I. .nd .,OIL,.ission:.. S,
I'm W. Trent C,err,: Ch,i _ rcoar. ci the Florida Maritir..e Museum Coirmittee. My
�,_� y`.. d i
address is _ ^,r:ri.. e= lar..., ,_rive. Today � :r,],^l.)er of i.ls on our com-
- mittee are here in to your motion of support passed at January 24th
Commissioc: ''eetin,; ar.- %,-,.:r requL. ,,t that we ar-pear again. in the January
meetinij Com::",1Ss1G:,er _'l,:Ir eL was liaison a: 1 ASsifit:ant City Man-
ager Cesar Cij].o Ja'l t'1r::.'- !,1: E9.:t;)r Karl Kern were directed to WOI'}: With us.
Their he:li> L,,.9 c�.)r._ .� t t<. ! aVC br.c. _au'ric. This prose .L�tloa today
„< rt rt �'.. .'�'.:�E St
is a combir„it:o,, 1.:_ for .t._-�actlor.�, u iasis for
d C Jmprl_nC liSl': t T': i.,... .. to '.he Class
cultural, e UCc,t_:Cri1i C::`_ertali:.:.eilt CLl.-'te" OIi the warerfru:-'L O: the City
of M1:>::I1 1.ve will ...:-C'. .., r_iu c-,U,)p01Zt L:at tiles rUS(_Ut, 15 YCC LV1nC:', Site
c0nSlderatians, now t�i, o.cct _._a 1ic ph,aL;f:d, the 02'j.i:,1L�.10.. its iesCrlp-
tio n, it's cultural. edu_ _-n,._ ill L 2concna,_ impact, rundln. � Y iLiCi:S all
,
UC.'tallea :u. the: rtcport gl\'_.. you c._ri1e1 anal llrle1 li-i the S"mx-ary Slue that
1 , :� reCe ntl;' . ... .. Gr`. Lo build, Over .', j pBriOriS are
active and many other voluntcering. Our i'.v::`..111y bro-ikl" st mtcta.ngs are
attended by 40 to SO persons. •Senator C'hile's staff is su_portirig ana work-
ing with us. Congressman Pepper is workinc. with us and giving usais enthus-
iastic support. Following a trip to Tallahassee, Secretary of State George
rt
t 10
Firestone, Secretary of COMMercet Sidney Levin 1_1.11 F;pport
as did . the staff of the Florida static Ylu-;�_la-,,- Mar:LtI.Me
Hcritaqe Conferenc-_! last
(--.f 't erzi C)f td
One at barry Colle'!(. one at :1'.j'VC?:S1ty Cf ".'_1!7.]L :_,_"",P Uptc'ci thu
-V A
museur. as a c- i: a A j�, t io n of ou -h zi
jl,e a s 1. t e ving
and tne Da,",�;
ThCse Fire'
store and Secre-_c,r"- !,E:v-Ln. We :;')ntinue to work with un-lvt,rsities cul-
lc aes a is ,.he kr' f..CtOr to C)U--' ;-.2%?t: anal-
yzed an rci',c:c- (in accC*s, avd'.-
rk
t c r. r. s c,
v.is.l.tcr a
1. e _s I c,,,: e r vc:ause cic
v,_,;l,,_�nr v e s una oTnk,r
of all words, irate site, ds a horsei"noe con i-cur-it 031 w,) c' I T-_ IuL7fes
Watern frot a
Wd'i31 L;IIT i,ncl zropurt*facin,-
a -,urninq ba::in- PrOirty S)LIp with r-
miLni ',,i:'boi north at-,e. GOUt'll OrX = r-'.-,L I71OSt.
ancl cre
Ti'.,:_-L arc.
t3 W1-.ejrP_ WC '�k.:C tne ofL I S I` v,- - `1&
zhu contcr �-)(2yo:.d.
r c. a LL: -Y t C) t L
oracre per:' ,:,ent
(n Cf E x-tc FEC WAt(Lr7rO:t Ind it cc; 1 1s
a tough con�in-uou., -.,roGram of up,,;rci_-. ci:_' ir- e r
pcsit-.ons
of -"R3 ty-laws cal i.G'r 4c J
nd( ---oniz; i jry. -
the reiaticn`;hi',) of Officer,_:; t- tnu Boar- c '2 u
I
a T- '"- ee icr-; ch_art
the A iFIT;c' t Oiillco rr' , ' -t"
j_!r(.;pC'_"6 method r,:- orcianizinc, r -� C)
o r t�� cay bu:�:LnL's
-�ez�ing
appi-o-riate in 't is 3oun(�
anLi the is lean anc-, t:flic-ien', 1".a Con-
ductive t,) the invDIvement of community lea`;urs and citizt.!ris at lar.-le
-ive assumntiors bc!ar c)n t(jt? lo-)k of the- m�lseur,', In
nr
be co;1t:i.nL1D_L;_%1' -or IS Ai. _S
-,nc Pust ICI, yerfs. Val-.:c_ js visi-:ors inust
(�! Evtzry-
e r' n in, nd c,tht.-rwJsL� rewa?.ciin' Ex, -,nc
;,ave an en*- �i u c E; t io r; a a,
pas,:, and .`.:r-.;re,
s ��-TUrtz, the ul .
in 'ar'JI dc. vlt";. pro-ect snall reflec.t- the
-is pro-tect as a �,.arit:.mc center
we of 1-h
hi qt.i a I ab C- -
r r 'D - x th-mes hLvt:: he,-.n i---;enti-
a.-X. wi�:h th--, tiu centrLil at acti — Si
-,s of the New ',"Orl 4 4 'd inclinn �g pr—
Sash :;din Hisotry
ojL-,,,:y and treaz,.:re, Cac_:bh,L--an ar,U h_,story
-cut! -,a c 1 --nd th(, zta-_t:;
1:ontumporary c_hn.�, multi -time activities ar��
marine. c-.).-:-,erc e cr,%,ers a wide range of auh3ects from lnc3i-in fis-inc-T. III i IrLa _- I r (-� cr(_ -
story to mc-e-1:11 Cruisc.S- 'F, activity; will in
Liuce (.,j(,rv._h:L-i,j fi-om the earl%! of be -'till; --n Fior-.C.a to
ng; (,�" ,iences, c�cearocjraphic a-*'.'zy inc r.'da, edu�'i'_n dn,� _Jtutic�ns, sectionoL c-cology, 'r....rr.canc-_-s, Ch-,
arC' ot'ic- marine in-
activit-.-ivv, Coast light ho_.__ scrvi Power _SquaCrc),:,
C. I C. d r sd t -
!.,and, Vew i.n �- a n r: , t he influx
tr The of i�� 3-- __-�)n-
f refugec� z ew'
Y . Guide:ines for t_hc i_i,.sign
c: ru_c E�iceT.zennii,al V a
Ln w c acros properiv J: c, 71m.
r),n v o t n
3 r sL -Ocrs'
3 c-xhibit, 7 �t e ci u c- a t a. c, n ai.
s U!" 1 (-)'r 3, public SL'j-ViCC fuc-litie!� an2t
i .,,ructur,:!, buldings we!-', baCK f.,.-om tht-
adtCa' ia"'):e to "'It, r'a*"-1
r , a I I : ( (- L- C! C)
without cC4,- :L_� for anc
n c. v s I t.,:,., ,..ther 1..-,:.S a li,,--ng
in -.Li ].time c UntF_r a% Q-: A.L, 6!'.,! 'alD am C2 - W_'Il re-
.
.suit in at luest four v-.-iting pcz year i ike C*.-.ris�_- -an
two aqc., tha j.,,-:-. _(,r.)astian
al- I' in Auc:�']Ft.
`-nu V Yc...%c Cal%,-)5o
'Arid Uf o7h'�_r.:z; Military vos_-�uis ana 6omcstic, h-,stor.1-c
Old yLi-_:htsc, luxuriolis yac"'its, sGi1E. built here; RenlicaL like
the Pri3t, of Baltimore, the Unicorn from Tampa anc many others will accept
!jai
our invitdti n. Accusb to T ;',u f X V-L L, L .7, __'lax.',,
buses, taxis, private vehicles and 11--T.
encourage large parking garages west of Siscay..t. v
and such may bring �.ju�t;ts other at'.ractioTo;, anc; busin,!zs 1-cen-
ters _1
ters in the area. x*.,-,ibits are the k:1r,W 0-17 U
s ', - Tile exhibits
must PaL's these tests: T:iey must he relev,nt, invo"ve thu viewer and
particip�int, bu marine oriented, be -oi all .iyes, c,,AtL;res and edLcational
levels az-,d be i-7,ulti-linciiial. An cx;iihjit will set the
stage for all others. lvisitarS woulu h-: w.Lt:;-a vl-ival )r;age5 irom
Columbus to the s.s. Norway while a liclhte6 mtp 4-xnlurer's routes,
treasure a I . i c r i s , I -, I s t o r 1. r- I. , r -i t i. m , Lvt-,ntL,, Aiic] ou gin. Cc:ntempai-ary exhibits
Will 1111IUCC a 1-110.,:1-1-1i13 Of a crulse ship or J--apvr iraJ, - i c� c �' i V e TV
or video tip�-- of Ships entering cur PC)-.-t.
L -
t e c 1 in, i qu e s s C r a t v t h *- s t o r i c a -1 ex s i
wooden boat .onstruction, a vi-sual lnisl--ory (:f our
St. Aulju.stan(_, 0.i.d Iliami to t,,,e- nn.orc midt--rn Florida A v,-suai 1,aStory
Of our mark-, `orts, recover,--d treas�.irc-s;, c,,.Dld ar,,,, b u 111 �o;,, a: , d
artifacts CIV.'I.L , by t'.-ie State of Florida Iriave L)(cn c-,-f .,-,d sho,-il-' uttrict
massive A vast Of e-x�i-,blt'- avC.'- mt ins oniy -i- bust
will be selecto". The auLlitoriu;-., V I] bu Lit.111--C.Ci for filmb,
ferenc(.s, School pros rams and c,-iltural
for ooatin�-T, senior citizens, a,-.ult education, unlvcrsit.y ar,r-I sc.',00- . L
Classes and (-Ivic jxcu_; will make -..-ood lise of t"iL i,,,
The linrar-,, ii,-' '- -C' lta-
f")r and
flags for Stage of Florida d..d -h,--
1',,U:-;UUI: will
reach far ii1 0 oat: (--umounity With v- z:,cor,(-ciry SC"'1001 t,)Lrs and
proqra;^.s, ltiAi.3ojis w-.thCO. r.,;:L t i C-'- anc, fac,-llty,
researc;,-, semir.ars 0- 0'1:'�SL'_.i71i1-j-lrl OCCO1a7-.G' ILi
Boy Scoutb, --�ea
ITIst.i.tute an , Tl-,u m-.sL,um will rLcciv,,-- newsl-t-tters Win: por-
io,-'IiTals, carnivals, Carinbean lsla;id cr 1,:3tional Heritacje Weeks
car. be perform,?d ycar round, 1:11 t-mphci,izing oaL interest.
the primary econo-nic: ampact resul---incj from vi.,--,itors staying uays to
visit the museum center, if 1. in 20 stayed one more d,-
:y and sp,$35 our
economy would gain $22,750,GCj annuaaly, add all oz',ier c---ono:-.Ic s--m-,;lants,
new visitorz., rruS�2uf.. in,:i missions, concession
businessu�, an: C: C.Y. V I nt- reaches
in e X C. (-. s s C, f Y' 5 C) , a r, -,.-! a I if w,- as-Su-mc! c. '0*,�'L C."-- ex-,DLrnditurc- and
We ,si-,umc I in 1,-I- vas.I.tors tags an a�dltiona-1 a,-.;, wou'a be added
to our eLoncmj? aT--ILia - iV. :y oily the cco,iorilc is profound.
We haVL nurerous fundraising sources and t:-..-. iZ growinc. We
haves raid:,(_: f c- engaraid:,(_:; p---rsonnel on c,:�-Ll�i.tt-�t- and
counst-lor.3 a.-.,J speclalist:3 11" t"-& field. and uses
are show,-, Corporate inci -priva*-e i,-rods for start-up f',nd':L:.'-, cnd on-
Tlie City of 14 i ami for land infta-stru-=ure and
personnel; DadQ County for on-c.,oinc, s,;ppc,:r-; the State of Florida fcr exhibits;
the Federal Gov--rnm,-,nt for structures anc -,:rocra,,s conl-tionei on outright
commitmen'-- of `.rd ',-.y ti-,C- Cjtv of :Jiaj-, i ni
wall be our lever to gceraue start-
up funciiin*7 aiz . ; ---,aerai fund Grants for tii,:' structu,-,-
100 -,f,cic:&Led wht..n the pro ject is in fu.11 VciuntsErs
anc avai.ibl(- in governe-titn training programs will be aided to this
n u.-, b e r . W: -ver 1,000,000 m,iseum vis:tors ajjn11d-'1-,7 Vilthin the first
three y(:,rs. Som-,.i -'-C annualy vessel visitations is feasihle. Nearly 2,500
hours of annually is expe--t,.'d. ific'.1-1 1r-ve's of aujitorium
usti are tc;.)ulatiDn results In 195 nights of use. A main
restaurant popular. Co.,-I'cesElons
traffic -'-y 1), assumptions t - nat wu are t-alking
about a 5 zf- . 11, )"
in sLL-Lnary, we ,..ivu djscu;3sud the sup-
port fcr a writ rirz)ri, "ssett fo: tne City of M.iami .,'c:- which prel,-min-
ary indicd-ciDns -Cass. We acknowlcago* t-ra- r-,--j-iect of this mn.gni-
Lude .,,ncay but alsV X;-,Cw a strGnc com-
munity it a -iji-ime Site lixe hic,°ntennldl ParK is
eum center the or.j,
is tie k,;-,,. Over
$50,000,00J W —!! A tL,
sources aru ,vj,. L, at-ilCaLIC)n 01- by the. C-Lty of -,.I-a--i is the
firs" funu.nq 7', a-, I-,-
ah I e . W-I-! h.Ave seen- proqre,-�s and h.iv,
to �orir your c.w:,, vi,:ws c.,-. of this rc ect. wc' ask you now
to consid(-r these iiext st,-,.�. resolution bupportirlg the
ai,proaci, wL2
1, (IL.- al)", a Judicates 10
acres of Ficentennial I'a-zk- foi; this purj--,ose. Su,:-h to be the. mus-
eum's t001 'or fund solicitation; (3) cstaLlish d�tc.b by wnich the above
steps may be Completud including a date in which dnV offer by the City to
dedicate land will bu wit.- draw,-, if conditions are not mtt. On hel,alf of
all of us who have been workinc, toward r-hu realiz--..ion, of the
14
t 0
''aritime Museum on Miami's waterfront we thank yea .,6'_.r attention and
previous resolutions. Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: well now Mr. Treat, first of all 1(rt m� c::.nuratulate you for
a frankly, an incrediuly well-done ar„ly:;ls. And I 1;_-ob,-,hly s'hc",Id..''_
shouldn't say tois, you're going to get upset, ; dLdn't think you ware
going to c.o s.ich a ,,. ou job b..t you d_d. You ii,i better ;:h_rn I tiro: .a
you would do and I really think this is a very well and very well
ti:ouC,.:t o:it . I lhal" . y: �u Lo ;;now z but i navC_ r' iQ i � .UGC. cover to covey
and I hove lr.yrke-1 out, what I thou;" -it were _ D,.11-ts. Now,
wnat yo l ,. i,,t froc, _.5 now is "she next d'_v'.). _ t, __ ', � 1O1 '�S O muY
,
if the LciiillliSlGf, u,rles, d motion refu ri.^.,j t,,15 Ili.__ .- _'i'-y Manac.-L-r'b
Office with a oSltiv(rr'CU1'u'1t.nQaLl0n f.:r his CUf,;1'.c r.Lii::i ci:iQ LhG t:le
alter wlii Lr'_,. ,.t back the CUIr� si,.lur. the:,: for :Urt`liD= deliaeration z)nc(
it has met Yilt.', his analy5lu. YOU rt ai_. is ', o:
recor .ten;.. . t - _ t.nE' CJ!".•lsslon lio, i7i .:,r: �: ' > _. 11 " 5 SS G _ c(:c (j t: 6 We wl..l
hve to na':tc Dlic nearing. it will havC:
wi will ;iav(_• 4... have 5OMC fiaanclal inforinati-on and all the other
things. Ok,,y, :N":T.F.S.lOriEr h11;", ur a .: i7Q..:',1S:-Qner :,acasa, there ara three
of us here so what is the will of this Cc,.;L..lssion?
Mr. Lacasa: I'd like to make that motion, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Plummer: I want to make the motion.
Mayor Ferre: Plummer makes the motion.
Mr. Lacasa: I'll defer to C,:,.Lnissioner Plummer and I' 1_'. second the motion.
NOTE: Corlmissioner Gibson enters the meeting at 3:10 P.M.
Mayor Ferre: Lacasa seconds the motion. Is there further discussion? Do
you understand the impact of the motion The motion is that this matter be
referred with positive recommendation to t'.:c Manager for furt:.cr study and
have the manager come back to us with his recommendations. Ckav? Further
discussion?
Mr. Lacasa: I'd ll.�C to add to t.:l; that this is the type of project that
could yivc a houst tC. Bicc::,ter.:,lc+l Park, specifically to that particu: ar
area. An,d o::e of the thins that I like L,-,:.t about t .e project is precisely
the lo::ation that has been decided by you =eoale because obviously it is
right in the heart of Miami And it _s in the right place. So I very
enthusiastically second Mr. Plummer's motion.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer who moved
its adoption:
MOTION NO. 80-295
A MOTION REFERRING THE NT,.TTER OF ALTE?NATIVE SITES FOR
LOCATION OF A 1L�RITIKZ MUSZUM TO THE CITY MANAGER WITH
THE POST_"IVE RLCG?tiiF".:JAT:ON OF TiiE C,7'Y CG`.'r,ISSICN' AND
DIRcyCTIN- :.T' CI ' MANAGER TC K-UDY AND RETURN TO THE
CITY CC? ,I.;Si: ti WITH I IS i'INDING�'.
Upon being secondd by Commissioner Lacasa, the motion was passed and
adopted by the followin:; vote -
AYES: Comnissi.^;,er J. L. Pl,imm�.:r, Jr.
Coranissi.oner (Rev.) Theodore Gibson
Vice-'!ayor Armando LEcaSa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe. Carollo.
Mr. German: Mr. Mayor, ue thank you. And I might say that after our
second attempt and the ad;nonition of you and the Commissioners at the
last meeting we knew we h,.d to really do a good job for you this time.
Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: Well, you sure did it. Thank ynu, congrat,>>;,' s.
4 1980
rt
i
r--
5. DEFERRAL OF CONSIDERATION: CITIZEN RARi
GUIDELI-NES.
.,.+••.s•+r+.,,!7e*i1T0.•-!�,.•,K.,,�,,.�o.�_•...�...�'-.. rrrTa�;,:....�;+-•+„�, .^es�';:nr--7n.r-� . -
Mayor Fer ±: For ti;ose or you that are here rn I _u::L whim th:: C" t::,enF;
Participation Gi:1,]E:lines 1 think there 1s going to : a mI-AlOn thu` thist i_em
be deferred and we may as well do that so that those of you that ;are mere_
waiting ca.. r-:, ,o along.
Mr. Lacasa: move that the item "E" Citizen Participation Discussion be
deferred.
Rev. Gibson: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Further discussion?
,Lr. Plummer: I'd like to know why, when we defer we defer for a 1`.,son...
Mr. Lacasa: The rear>on for a deferral is that we is c. =:.c LaKe a decision
as to what hind of citizen participat:,, : in thl '_oi-,.m.lnity Development prob-
lem we want and there has been a continuous nur^,ber of people involved in
these community -f airs ':ha*- --, giving opinicns tG "' j Gffice arc _a the
way that they wou1114 1i::_ to see it fit. So what I w3.:i- ixE: to c.-, is to
get the concen,YI.- of opinion and incorporate that to the discussion that we
are going_ nave.
Mr. Plur4mer: So In other words there are no instructions to staff to get
additional information, it is for your office to gather more i-i:ormation?
Mr. Lacasa: Right.
Mr. Piurnmer: Fine.
The preceding motion to defer introduced by Ce.,,missioner Lacasa and
secondec by Commissioner Gibson was passed and adopted by the following
vote- PA,ES: Mr. Lacasa, Rev. Gibson, Mr. Plummer and Mayor Ferre.
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Carollo.
Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, the discussion on Citizens Participation
Guidelines will now come up at the next scheduled meeting which is May 6th.
Okay? Sc, those of you that are waiting on Item "E", Citizens Participation
,,c I d ra 1 .h ., 11 w:� S" .
:, ,•. a�y •ijy � ^ a+.r r'�' ""�7.w"-/�7'a7 �T ," ...,wi S r .y,� q y ..r: z. .^y. a"r�;l.e, .�i -- -�' �-� - -- � _a��a�..-_ ..,:.':. _ '� . • 3C?!!`�7uk't i�'1Y'�:�" . ! � 7� ., .6.� rJ,'i�E
b. EEf:� EQUIPMENT
AND :NSTALI ti�,' iUty AT
THE 02ANGE
-_,',T'NJED FROM
ITEM 2 - 5-DAY RULE
INVOKED.
a.(ly'y�'P{t.' "d: 'R' ,.'4; '•...- ; •• ,J* ..s,ri d� dt>.?"'. +.F�••"e•�; -per.
•T:jY it* .,.. pp
.:"�.t►..cr'`atlklt.r......_. - - . •i LTIM. 1.��.....rY�^�wf.•aiL_y_:1-�_Y.�.,..t �cst_...:i5,tr.t,...r. _._ rv3a,... .._. ... 1
Mayor FE..'r(:: F .tn�.l "?.b::071, you wants to asK a C,;estic.^..
Rev. GiY,:,c>n: `.'c6. i w,jn to make �,_zu ever,,body un_:-:•rs,..nds. I'm co::Cer:"ed
about whether or -got we ` _ r ;g to huvt�! this facility ready for the sea:;c n.
Now I halpen to havo o. t .c (Jill - t t
_ y� .at ;�: �_� or. he to vote
for this thln:7, . . i_!, t:11L WL2 Ow'(: somet
hing tJ the
pu:)llc and 1 t`,l..:k _ -L: .::,meth._ nq to ht., r)ubi_c_ . KNiai Sal' :: T tJ th(_.
public we're aiJ1L, Lli ,: �; w :' re QO1G j tO QL , w'C ' rf: tic)] I]y to do anc: we end up -
maybe you aren't the -ell'
r,le I ought to be talking to. fir. Jennings, you and
Mr. Gririm - now again 1 iin(: of .... . guys that (jot i:11L on the sl:lit and more
especially because I WL,S r:''man, I was votlLg :-ur the sale of bc,er and
I took the position ind I _,,li tnc-ommission. I sa;ci, You know : went to
the orange Bowl we:._vcr that W:._ wit.. t_-at11_~' ;..» say here,
that grandson of mine. I said and y:) I know they :.ad more whiskey in the
Orange Bowl than you could hope to sell. You know? Legit. Ana now we, and
I came back and voted for that tiling because, I felt that peoj-lc: were going
to do it anyway. Now look, I hope we could settle ,and :hake sure ;':,Ut the
people get the ,;�-:rvice that we pron-sc;j thorn, t}:at 1 ?romi e tnem and I
T 0
gc't very C i ., :f. T_r•: ,._.lt -1 Flat we Comu lit a .7 ig
anc,`'ill.ing 3 fuS;ing dn�] Cll551.ng about sUmE _.._.:', ' nt;. ,5. Can't we
settle so that, you know it is embarrassir.g.
Mayor F rre. 4i thi ;k t.}ie question 1-- _f we appzovu th.s now is this it?
Are we i.nr4 to move ahead now or are we (;,)ing to have another system here
next tire?
Mr. 'Wig,. Potter: Let me respoI1d to that, N,ayor. We are masters at rush
and I can a:_,,sure you today....
Mayor Ferre: Masters at what?
Mr. Potter: At rush, netting things done very quickly. And I can assure
you that the s.•tem that we propose today will be ready August loth if you
give us the gt_ ,head today.
Mayor Ferre: G�:ay.
Mr. Lacasa: Now...
Mayor Ferre: Further questions?
Mr. :.,acasa: Yes, I do have....
Mr. Plummer: Yes, sure, there's a lot of discussion, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Lacasa.
Mr. Lacasa: Is there anyone representing the Miami Dolphins here?
Mr. Dan Paul: Yes, sir.
Mr. Lacasa: Mr. Paul, aE you are familiar with this situation o the beer,
we have been prese:.ted so far three different systems, the first One was a
pumpinc, syster tier, we went to the elevators and now we are coming to a sort
of hal; wav elevator/pumping system king of a situation. These all are
technic:a;. .,roC,1E-1r;S any I ar, L�;tailV unqualified, of course, to pass `udae-
ment on tn'.s. My concern, however, is _:: Ilow we art'. realiv Cettinq tnt_'
right thing or in olincr words if tWC Wet:};S .17:om ;:ow, `=gym,=::ody else whether
the or z :e City staff or some other 0 'iitd' w--_1 -,me cut with
a different: t-,,pe of id( -,a. howc:.ver, ,e do have to sc.'.tic this t`::nr onc^
for �111 if we wrint },ec r in t.:._ rrangt: Yowi lr. rl-:e ..t X'. 7', an --
would say that I understand tha':. ti.mc: . �:-re is now bt-_,c )minU :,f t::c
Still, tilt. cuest:icn of the il,vestFle".'_ is _. major factor the way I';. go-
ing to vote and tnis is the questi.ur. 1 ..._.a. Jo ::der tang :or ectly
that the ; 39'/ , 003 that is the cost . uc_ restL .i oy the .:,t ovens Co:._.any, or
whatever it is, is going to be the responsibility of the Xi-Lni Dolphins?
Mr. Paul. 7ej :.,, n't. .rl gGi:i'j tC ICdV`_ th1._ Bowl and
we hive exactly t nE -ame concern that yc u do i:nd C:'hat a S we. want the best
sys :am that we cat. 3t. will do livF•r cold veer to the- fans so that we don't
hdVc Gu'. lly 1T:pOrta:,t, W111 troV.ICL ~ :f_' .:,aX4 .,,=1 revenue to
the City. And `-C .. t'nore have been these dUvt ral ._::aI 7('S in the
system is tC find Cnc_ would accom iisn those zwo oD�.ctives and the
Stevens in �eliverinc beer it f..)'.ball ;•.::r.iur,s and
this systtla nu t'[: _. F_Ull: ,,t11C'_I rd In fact, c:,t or. c'._ ai:-,_llty to
belia,Ve tha". ..'is .,'JS_ 'm r,in delivN' '..'C. have aircady even tent3t vely
placed the OruLT and ..f 1 :.:.tCeG :le a;tl0'1 ,: Oi ..^.IO::E y for t}":15 C'.iu:Pr., nt.
Mr. Lacasa: S we u i,:,-r:.t._.,:.V that t:.c :Iiami Dolphins are going to pay
for the amount of 7.,')-.CV L.-It as required to implement this system in the
Grange Bowl Zt,idium. is that correct?
Mr. Paul: Ti,it's cc,. rect.
Mr. LaL;asa: okay. Dluw, in the event that the system fails or needs to be
cil inc3ed in tre f pure, v.,u' d the M.,rii Dolphins be responsible for,at their
own expe.n! ie ,makinci whatev r.,. cessary chd,iges or improvements need to be
done in order to have an a :_:q *.e sy:;*_em in the Orange Howl?
Mr. Paul: It is the respo::sibili---y of the Dolphins and the Stevens Company
whc. are our caterer to see that this system works and if it requires improve-
ments to make the improvements at their expense. Mr. Potter assures me that
the Stevens Company guarantees this system will work.
, ? 2 1980
rt
r-, r
Mayor Ferre: All right, further questions?
Mr. Lacasa: Let me ask a question here to t:,e City Attorney because I don't
remember well this particular situation in the contract. Mr. Alvarez, the
amount of money that is going to be invested by the Dolphins, is that in any
way refundable to the Dolphins by the City? No? It's not? Okay, thank you.
Mr. Alvart'z: No, ] don't think so.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Je:inings?
Mr. Jenniny�.. Tne answer is no.
Mr. Lacasa: Oka.,, so it is well understood that this systum is ;oink to be
paid in full by -ne Miami Dolphins and that in the event that this system
requires iml'rovu.-.,,nt or even a total change this will also be the responsi-
bility of the M ,.-ri Dolphins from the economic standpoint of view.
Mr. Paul: That _. correct. The Dolphins have the reEpcnsibility for deliver-
ing beer and being sure the system works.
Mayor Ferre: All right, further questions, Mr. Plummer?
Mr. Plummur: ALr. P,:Aul, representing the Dolphins, because at _ T).,r�-i.::ular
point it is my understanding ti,at a final negotiatt.'d tc"rm ,;ith thlL. company
has not yet been signed and the contract is w:Lrh t:,e —L aml Dolphins, my ques-
tion is how is it proposed or looked "•. Dy the i;i.;; Dolphins, in what posi-
tion is Harry M. Stevens going co :-e i, volvet ?
Mr. Paul: Well, M. :i�:CVe.nS has been involved from he beginnli�t:; I: -,the devuioprr.enr ;)_ t 1is system }�.t obviously we can't finalize our agrecrient
with Stevens until we have the approval o- the C:y .:cr t',,is system because
this is the only system that Stevens tells us will work and celiver the cold
Leer and sell the maximum umo'..nt of beer in the stadium. I don't know if
Stevens would be interested ii we had to go with a different kind of system.
Mr. Plummer: Is r ,rry M. Stevuns, you r ee:p referring to th.: word "As your
caterers", the other terminology has been management.
Mr. Paul: I think management is a more correct term. They are going
to be responsible to us who are, of course, directly responsible to you for
seeing that this system works and that the quality of the food in the Orange
Bowl is good.
!1r. Plu.'rlimer: All right. So in other words,what this flies in the face of
�s at the 23tn meeting I think it was,there was a gen"-leman here from Ann-
hauser Busch and this gentleman concurred with Mr. Mike :'.obbie in their
letter th at, in fact, this system that thy were , rc..�osinc at ti":e time with
the elevatc,rs was far superior to the oi:h: is pumping system ;1n i the%, went
with the (:'lL: at; S'•'SLf:rl because c'. stT ._.._ill irq} it: i w n'c:' l:t' h'lt::-
out the !ienefit of Ci:1S expert who tEstlf7eCj � t'✓ v;;3 t"at __VL"Ler.. is once
again :?elrij Chair :::. :his expt rt ]lia(.i. `.c: t1T7ur_' :�(--c)r(.: this C,)=1,slon that,
in fact, that svr:tem. at was this C - was, in fact, the best
s'✓Stan. Ann I'a .it , :,o_,s to u:;ersc.and how this Corr.i.isslon could act with-
out that gc.:ntieaian _._l;.; b<:ck here mar._1n(; this Co:rumission
that this system is as ^o:,d .as the system that he said was the best.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. PILLumer, may I answer that?
Mt. Pliunmer: I would r.-ufer ;r. Paul, that's who I asked the question of.
Mayor Ferre: Fine, but T 'gill pre-emp that by just, and Mr. Paul can answer it,
you can ask him but iu.�,. for the record I want to insert a very simple
practical answer. 1 a:.T _oo:,ny to the Dolphins for thie system to work. I
don't care wn,_, ,nei_ li,' GO or 50 cxrerts. 1 cion't c.iro 1: I�C.:'l'w:15er
comes "ere anC j _"e 1.-1, all rf thc-,,;tt norscs; thus. .,i:`J ,_t1V,":rtlsc
with, the Perchero— ,,c they'r!_, called, and tiE*J' all. st 3na Un their
head. That means absoi,_' e_y nothing to me. I don't care w::t-ther it is the
harry Stevens or the Bail :V .:;5 or e XYu Corp., my : r.t _ t"GS t iS th'-A tilt Miami
Dolj>hins have a contrac;tu; . 0j0. iijdtlon and i thln!•.,in my ij ifilv:., my only
question -which I'll ask l Ater on Is t: this is a pc ,ent ,._m ;ing system
or a pt::rmanent- system that will rur..,tion t Distribute Baer nnu that you're
,oing to spend tht, amount that you sai._ you were going to :pond ana that
you're going to have it ready by the football season. And if those three
conditions dre met, man, I've got no problems.
e1
Mr. Plummer: I appreciate one vote on this =Ci; 4:,iS:, i.:. _ _ I.K �n'i ar.-3 answer-
ing the question, now once again I'll ask Mr. Paul if wo.:lci answer the
question representing the Dolphins, of course.
Mr. Paul: Mr. Sti`Vc:1 I think can expl:yin the .3irferer._e between the two
systems :)at ie!_ c,e jt, ;t say in shoi t wn:..wer with all. due rt-spects to Ann-
hauser Bus,:!,, tney're rarvelous beer mak,-rs but twe;,s are r ally experts
in beer delivery.
Mr. PluTlli',(-r: T'Lat's find, Mr. Paul, excel!t it we, t::C-. i Tamil' Dolpnins who
called in Ara,:,ausc:r I- ;sch to dusign the °irst one for thcr, and that's the
reason they were brought here to give expert testimony.
Mr. Paul. WE _c.und a better expert.
Mr. Plummer. Y, 11, we've found so far too many Experts and I think that's
why we're b,1[:r: ;.(-re a (.-,iiin with the problen.
Mr. Potter: May I Take one reference to the elevator system that I think
you're referring to?
Mr. Plummer: Sure.
Mr. Potter: The elevator system as was proposed b.,, last meeting, again
1 wasn't a part ei that meeting, could i.t co:aic rt d a luxury item. Sure,
it's gc,ing to ,axe transporting r.:,,- only hear b,at other food and beverages
around the Orange Bowl, it _._,, make it a lot easier but we can do w;thout
it.
Mr. Plummer: Sir, it was not our proposal.
Mr. Potter: I understand that.
Mr. Plummer: Okay, is was the Dolphins who made the proposal, rot us, and
asked befor(. this C,)7:-iission on the 26th of February that the! be allowed to
switc n to t,:iS new system and they were iIi full concurrence. You See, the
problem is you're r;:.r,=r aealn and Father's concert, as will as mine - who is
going to be here ti:e next ""ime? Now, to the administration: Are you recom-
mending thi:: nuw proposal?
1'I`: tj is ;..;:C to su't' to that yes bUwith 1 want to qualify it ith this
and, tr ;t is :bait the _-mour.t cf money that the Dolphins �3penc.
for the Dran,je "wi iiihrovem,_Nits with respect to the $330, Q00 is role Zi =ed
to hecr a,i_ r.::e ray:ilities .iecessary for beer and not to cold drinks and
nor the hot dogs ar;J not the pc, -;,corn.
Mx. Plummer: I aL;sum.e you're speaking for Mr. Jennings and Mr. Odio, or do
they spear; i.--r thamsclves?
Mr. Grimm: 'icu ask them questions if you choose.
M1-. Plum,: Ear: Well 1,:-i::arily are you recommending this system?
Mr. Jenr.inc;:: ,;ri.:, I would have to defer to Mr. Grimm who is the City
Manager
Mx. Pl,;rr„.e ,i,<, s .That `he Charter says and I didn't have that opportun-
ity unti- Mr. '_ri;r;, ;.ave it to me.
Mr. Jennings: hu- yes, 1 would agref_, with what Mr. Grimm said.
Mr. Carollu: Mr. .,rimy:, ' ki.nc of r:ense a hesitancy in your yes answer and
the Admini traLicn s r, .;d of nesitant in the way they say "yes". flow
can you log1,�411y us to be prepared to make uy our :Hinds on this:
Mr. Gr-mm: CG:'Ti° sic ,er, 1 ha:_ the sat:, prestantation of information that
you did cinU fur th._. as I Sali; In mV E'.:rli u r re-
marks aS ua_li_r: tvOd t' rt caLir_n the' [.1frErtt::CC in what we are talk-
ing a ,ont in tine system li.: at:,,n.: to 6o with r(`ly 5,.::ing beer to the
fjartic' jn.:,t l.i tl4k, 01,411g a,.'.J:. .,:i _ _ to , C. isL1Yw' O'.. yet :.he
beer from the groun,i up to where yc� _iis:r.:;=,e it f::o (. ti,.: k v hawkers
or by pur;l)ing. Now what they're sayir,u t:• you as 'understa:id it is that
it would be very nice to have elevators sc --'-at we could transport food,
beverage ar,: ever'! other concessio:: item to the v.riou:> levels more con-
veniently. Wt,_t :.hey also said was tl;eY nay been gettirici beer and food
and beverages and other commodities up to those levels by driving trar.,:s or
carts or something up the ramp and they intend to do that now. Now between
one game and the other a week lapses, they have ample tine to supply those
storerooms that the City is now building and will have ready by July !St.
so it becomes a logistics problem.
Mr. Carollo: One more question for you, Mr. Grimy;. As the Mayor previous-
ly stated, I WaE;11L t)I; _:115 C.ommissicn when t.;:S fir:'_ -:a^.e before the Com-
mission, th-�nk God i r� here now. riowt_•ver, m;• is a very simple
question. Frolr, the time that this first a;ppcared >eco: the ro7unlssicn
and the Ok was giver., how long has it ta:cen the Loolp::ins to realize that
no, that was not the best way of go-.ny about it, that this -now is the best
way?
Mr. Grimm. I •:�n't think I can give a good answer to that.
Mr. Carollo: M:. Paul, can you?
Mr. Paul: It has taken some time, Com,n•:issioner, because the Orange Bowl
by virtue of the particular problems that exist there and as Mr. Grimm
mentioned by virtu: of the fact that at the time we started planning this
system we didn't -,ave these storerooms rlanned. Now we're In .y mint.
better position to come up w'th the best system we have f.; itLt._ of the
new constriction that the City is doing in the 3awl so it has taken
about a year.
Mr. Carollo: Well, let me tr.'_: sou what the bottom line is, what is bother-
ing me. I can't realiz_ t.iat it has taker. the Do'_phir: a ,•t.ar to realize
they made a mistt_:.a with all the top experts you have. i::at': all, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Grimlrl, does t:1, City ;:ave a:1ytr.in.� i. w iting fror; the
Dolphins that `:,i concur with this? Do we have ar.y nucotlatecl items as
were with the elevators? 7� realize that this is only hc.Y:- tod:r, ior- dis-
cussion, it is not here for action in any way shape or fora.. I'm assum-
ing that you're presenting this to us and then there is c:oing cc-) be back-
up material sent to us so it can be scheduled as a regular agenda item.
Mr. Jennings: Well, what we're doing here is we're discussing one of the
terms of the eor'ce_s= 'ion contract, Amendment #3 which says that the Dolphins
will spend an estimated cost of 5330,000 on beer distribution, the follow-
ing plans to be approved by the City. ....
Mr. Plummer: And that approval shall not be unreasonably withheld, that's
correct.
Mr. Jennings: what we're doing is the Dolphins are presenting to you today
their plans for the beer distribution system.
Mayor Ferre: ;nd we either approve it or we don't approve it.
Mr. Plummer; Not t�_:aay, of course.
Mr. Lacasa: Would: tr,st imply a change in the contract as to the amount of
moneys to be invested': in other words we'll be talking then about $397,000
versus $330, 10,0?
Mr. Jennings: No, th-, says estimated, Commissioner.
Mr. Paul: Without .Any change in t`le contract we are willing to spend the
extra money co put w;:,.': we t::ink is she best system in that will produce
the maximum revenue.
Mayor Ferro: I t',c_n't 'h.Ink we neeu any change in the contract, let's leave
the contract the wat.. it. is anti all we're doing here is approving what they
have prc•sentad, or so tnat they can proceed with the install-
ation.
Mr. rlummer: May I ask un,. rival duc•stion? Mr. Grimm, you know wc- .mposed
such stringent regulations the;:,. two poor boys down in Bicentennial Park
putting out a concessic �r. sta;:d r.ay2'nt taut th,_y had to have certain amount
of fat content in their hot dogs, t':, hail to have s:,`.,p 6orvt:d at a certain
temperature, their cigarettes had to ix. wru:ped in certain cellophane, what
standards? You know that's just a little hot dog stan3. «at standards such
as this imposed on-Ahot doq stand are we imposing to g.:arantee the delivery
of the product in the proper manner to the c•.-istomcr?
A`20
ri
W
Mr. Jennings: It's lr. :ham ii la.l djYc eIlL lt.
Mr. Plummer: For e>:ample, does it state in that contract how cold the beer
shall be when scrvr.] to a customeY? foes it state i.n t:,e_-e the fat content
of the hot cloys:' 1'o.a kncw this is riliculous.
r,ir. Jenr,ilic;s: T.) riv recollection it dou:, not. 1-c dnt'S require theT to haVe their
�r7i:lS 3�^rOi'eC; ti t:io cit_,, and tnurl' :hTC Si t)t:1eT TfSITtICt1011S, but 1 ain't
i)el iev,' the to111j1e1 ure 1S one Of the. . .
Mr. Plui;r.er: well, .I th..,nk that's D:r. Lacasa's creatt_st conceil,ti was that the
bets w0u1: 1'0- sefV-1 Aril if tliure Is no 2.'l'` t2"].C't1C:. in tht.;re now
W111 it ever be C1F' i "T,"let d as to w;,el-ra'r Ur not this syStCP.1 is SUCCt 5SIll1?
�1n0 1:] ijoi l3 to ! that deterin:i-ation?
A+.r Ua•.' _ 11C� _ate ,7 i1rC\'m.E ll t_ \�. OI'T11 �5 >:1Gnur 1'.u,,.'i E: ?", the City 11a:> the
right at any ..ic:. with, ,:ham .,I_andards of VUr food
,:Jr our Lervico t_:i:r_nc L:_:
don'tthink 1)1"3b2er.but
i i:ni['.n
the Ao ld as Iar the oc-er .Laing solo 'Ijcca.:Se tale :ans Ere tnu ones that
to -0 sat.Lsfie, l c.nd if you want to serve warm beer in the Orange Bowl
I don't want to rc anywhere in Dadt Ccuuray when it happen-, .
t1. P1u,=_er: sut Dan, yot]'vi: got tnerri as a captive that's the
problem.
f•:r. iIotter: In a `'.:rther response t,> the hotcog anU mua—, products, there
are federal standards that _ .:.4 e fat content in hot We, `_guy from
U.S.D.A. inspected
N.r. Plummer: Tire they Kosher? Do you go to the higher aut'c:ority?
Mavot Ferre: I'll tell you what_ I think you haven't mentioned wh_ch I'm
_ rrrised, Plu:ur:er, 1ecause you're the one who likes to t�ik about th•-
frea enttrr)i:dse system. I think the best standard of all is the �u gcrment
of t;_e 1.: c.,1F: .,nth u:laer the free ;market system if the beer sells then I
wo.11d a:, s'.]rr.e tlrlat t.e people �.re Satisfiedi. And if they're not satisfied
t :c1I won't buy_ the beer and the Dolphins won't make as much money as they
want tc maxe.
N,r. _luY,. 3r; Mr. mayor, that's well and fine except you're giving out an
exclusive franchise and the fans in the Orange Bowl don't have an alterna-
tive place to go.
Mayor Ferre: well., I am satisfied. Further questions?
Mr. l:rn:.e i,c>>r.r..-_to: I'd like to say a little something on this Mayor.
nrnia F..:nratto is my name and I'm. President of the Tax Payers Leagut of
Miami and jade County. I'd like to say that the Stevens organization needs
n0 E"=:OI,Smt aation. ':,'.f.y've operate.'. here in made County at the race tracks,
E alcah, t^`_'J ' 2 _ 'j: ': ] n,': he best tooc: In the ::ountry In tllalecih. They oper-
ate at b)_a i(:aCj1:C ..a2l arr:5 rind they're not going to invest $397, 3 ),o if
they haven't r3 _ L:i'}''rC doing as 91Vinq them the maximum income.
1l0 if they _lk t`.'• me:i:1 .'iml the City Of Miam, make.; 'uric maxlmu,:. and let Ime
tCll you poi;.t lr ^.!; 4!c ✓e c,r-iggecd our feet for two years, we lost several
`.iv7ng tnt 'beer, let's go and let's IGoye: and
vote or. this today.
M,iyor Ferri:': nil ciscU`;Sion on this? All right, what is
the will of this C,�rrmissio::'
mr. PluTmner: 'n'cll, t.:: •:; ilr, will, :fir. Mayor, this is a discussion item
and it's not ! heduled .r action. I would assume that normally it would
hc_ scheduled for the rlc::^:i.
Mayor Ferre.: No, sir, 1 k .,,lcl hope t*r.at we could, like we did on :item B,
wit took a vote on that, I \,j r:opi2 that there would be a consensus one
way or the other so that the Jc?ahins would know whether or not they can
i,toceed Uosth-istc 1)ucau3;e OtheY'n'_.e we're losing valuable time and there
is no way that you're going to have a beer system by August loth, if we
keep putting this thing off.
Mr. Plummer: That's not our fault, Mr. Mayor.
r t A 1- R. u 4 19UV
Mayor Ferre: Well, yes it is, it's my proaien
Mr. Plummer: I can understand that but it's not mine, we were not furnished
with the material prior to this meeting, I invoke the rule.
Mayor Ferre: That's a judgmental factor.
Mr. Plummer: I invoke the rule, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: The Charter: of ti,e City of Miami gives the Mayor of the City
the right to call a Special Commission Meeting for any purposes within the
purview of the City and i will do so if not at this moment certainly in a
very few moments so you play it any way you want.
Mr. Plummer: M.. City Attorney, I think ti-.at the invoking of the rule also
applies to sl?e....ai calls of comMittee n.f!etings doesn't it?
Mr. Alvarez: N :sir, the �:ayor muy invoke....
Mr. Plur.snLr: ne can call a special session but I can still invoke the rule
at a special session.
Mayor Ferre: No, sir.
Mr. Plu,;lmer: Are you the City Attorney too?
Mayor Ferre: The only exception to the 5-day rule is in the hands of the
Mayor and fortunately, or unfurtunLtely
Mr. Plummer: I wouiw still like to ask the City Attorney that, I'm waiting
for an answer.
Mr. Alvarez: The answer is, Mr. Plummer, that....
Mr. Plummer: I thought I was a Commissioner.
Mr. Alvarez: Commissioner Plummer, I'm sorry.
Mr. Plummer: Thank you.
Mr. Alvarez: The Mayor may call a Special Commission Meeting.
Mr. Plummer: And the 5-day rule cannot be invoked at that, is that cor-
rect?
Mr. Alvare_-: The Charter provision dealing with the 5-day rule pertains to
Regular Commission Meetings.
Mr. Plummer: You're saying it does not come into play on a special call of
the Commision?
Mayor Ferre; That's right, because the Charter provides for emergency meet-
ings....
Mr. Plummer: Emercjenc,; meetings pertaining to life and hazard of this com-
munity I agree.
Mayor Ferre: No, the Charter doesn't say life and hazard. The Charter gives
the Mayor tt:e righL to call a Special Meeting.
Mr. Plummer: I have no problem wick that.
Mayor Ferre: And that ri,jht ;according to what George Knox and John Lloyd
before him tc:i:? me jives t'-.c Mayor of the City of Miami the right to call a
Special Meeting ,end '_Loi e is nG 5-day rule invocation on it. Now that's the
way it is, if you w,�r,t to challenge the legal opinion that's something else.
Mr. Plummer: I shall.
Whereupon the Regular C`.ty Commission Meeting was recessed at 3:39 O'Clock
P.11. -for the purpose of calling a Special Commission Meeting.
K
� .`ai�",�►m "` °'6�''�:�� ,>.;.�' `",i,ss`cl "...•w...:....�:.i..a...11r.. -Ew��•-'��.,
then zluthority grantca to tr.��i;-, the. Charter,
c
Mayor .'f:.I' F' C::il tr_,s c: Spec.ia'l Cord.sLit1TLsion �ctinci t 3:40 O'Ciock
P.1M. f .r t=1e i)ur:os;.s of t.akinc�- a(-_ticl; on ltcrl "A".
:>'. it_i'_la; thi_ )n ti ng for
tF1'_ l)liri�0=ie'c. Oi.
i:ve,ia:i:.j M'ltr, tnC
l:rv5ir,...�lOn (:'.
...ii, 14a imii Dolphins tnat
they lust ma— d"d
Lai, rl:a'<,On
1'tIl '01,19 6() . C}'iat
w'- dealy another
we-'k of t,.•., CCdys
it i5 ,. i:t.ij
ii -robah%It: t.:iL Wt,
lti" it :,ave beer by the
time t,.e iiri. qe
Yt,w.' D,_gihS for)tI)all.
1 }'inn: i`. is e:isent'ial
t:lat tht UeC'",l.r
Of Ml.dml IlaVe
beer for least CS
which is i
'r...:,=trea th,,`.i:
a ,d do l tars _ :::c; ,
; c, t'".c " i-.:y Of Yi,S li.
therefore, •:
1 Sf, ciai Ci,-,:,i :.ic:: :d'uti:ng,
ttit_'.e cJ:,sti.tuted as such
an3 I w3.11 c r .
•.ho flDor for
ar,y ot'r,er fu1:t.::er
discussion, statements or
the expre 's . t> :
t:'le wli l of
this C0m!-51ss10n.
Mr. Plummier: F'.,r the rt�cord, I invoke the rule.
Mr. Lac:asa. •vac have witnesses tnrou-"lout the: years 17 times at the very
least that I cai, Call, or lr., wI]( re: t11--LS YA;`t1551'vii ..is heen involved in
VGtlny 0-.1 th15 1. 3 it;. Y'1n3 L1 �', tJ\i.l: tint_ end of la --it yE :. l •�...
the M:an. JO._i :1; ill::] we Otlte'Y_ �.. ,�cc`ment..
rl'h1S igrt2." t?at C.d1 ] fO: tre Jol ,:'1 S t0 I
JF lnSta_ (t11C., Ion of
t1iE' be:r CdP'.t_ .iCG ]L' becauset.7e1c of t a C'.it; o ?:ai 11: a rk2:.ure niium
1nUiCatt'Q t11C W111 tci :I"VC, colt: u '_he Cr_,itclt, Trit ru: urt- the
position of this &: v.l .::m my-tcinQpcint of Vlew be o:'.: of
azct:ptln th(: `n .. . _ -- t:n,' peopl0 of '..ht. t:ity of ':: aTi CX_;rt :;St`u in d ` f fer-
en,A lxr ana :\'i Dt=eiin the Orange yowl On r;h�r.uVir',' Jt..im:, :.tl JvnultlGnS
might be most beneficial for the City of Miami. t'-.'..:7; Ili)' the only -,)roC)lem before
Us according to tL(. '_O:itraCt that wF_ 1ll'di' (:xec,1te:1, _tic 'JUest_lo:', Of What
system, a:;d , ~Rnc l t that we have been rresentea wit% tree difi, : er,t �lterna-
t1V;?S C1U."_iaCj thl:i y i�iL CW :.0 .2.} Li, c C _ W<ii,= `_O t'Iat not
eve', at '.., _, par:l: .:'t :.r poai .t _' it e SUrIJr15EcG if we are
W1tl, a I_J7Lh al-erndtive bulcirC �: i' C,,. ..y i:.._tc' iC:.. bUt
St1Ii JI1CI l:, i.. nt; d:t' tO :'.iV if :er so c.t the orange Y3;:w1 by
the noxt suoson -4L, -o havtt to d_t ncw. a:`n:1t, iSC .d:' l : O into another
ary year at the ;i_,]a:7 bowl wit" i.r:e tAi l )f ;lt having been
implemer::ed ana .he revenue- t hat could come to the City of Miami lest.
rr•.,dyer :ll:, '.J1t:. + _-...t,.:r � _:.,.:li ..;�t ':i,� Ni.=..1 1J:i: , ns art_' to }i,3:✓ ttie
a:treed .:')on In -r*-r. GGn':ract treat the Miaua Doip:;ir's Will be - eSTOnsib1L at
their own c:cl.,ensc• to - make ary chanh;es n�-cessary to imarove or completely
SUk,Stl". itt th S :i'_i.l SrivlliC. t:,f' ::y,%.-or. n:Dt wort: to the Satlslactlon o1
(1) the Cam:.. '_lmC':'S, t• j tl'10 C.lty o, „ldml. Lit Ca iSt \E11 Lhoug.i in ca free
market system th.=re is no c]Ut'st ion that thu Ulti:^ate udge 1s the con-
sumer a:,c : :1G pe r is sol,1- Z,i C:a,l:>(: t.'l SySLi: I _ s,4o ii0o 1 enc)uLjh then.
the City .i is th'3 r e 6 >:,5ibl;.ity
P_ffectiv-�, nstal!L,l becduse oT_'ne-wise Vit_' it De 111Q C:1L (_ ,I '..neSe
CwG tning5_ City fJ :7i,)m.i will be los3i li, CGu revcnI:i-, "nd (L) at the
same tin(_ tl-.e _G:,: I,, will be negatively affect:d bee :_sc' they won't
have wha-_ to ey 1:,',:�• .. at Lhat refcre,::.3um. So v_, ew :if that a,,d
with the the financial Yi:SponslDility is entirely, no4:
and in the future ,.,`.a: _, the 'fii:lIlll Dolphins i move we approve tnis
system this= I be to us by the Stevenii Company.
Msyor Ferrc: Is t.;.;.: -) a sUcirri_"?
••.:,h those men were here. I want to know will
the: systc m work, 11 me . You know I voted on it the last time
and fr r sa:ti(`s t_hi�; _hilt;. palm me every time we have to fight over
this rhing.
Mr. Potter: wcu:1: yo,i '.i'.e me to respond to that, Father?
Rev. Gibson: Yes, sir. 1?ck, wit: the system work?
Mr. Putter: Thu s}•,tcm t'l—i to yi)U today is going to
..•r,r}• (]j ?.t !: _t-.r-L(--. .. ..ti tost._ St-aci1'r.1throughout
the Col nzry iancl 1 will tell you Onc. cjli-, now that'6 in oporatlon today
and works very sue ces ,ruby is at C tr:':.l s"c"I: Park in San Francisco. The
stadium. is owned by the City, wL: op, roll unicr CDntract With the City and
the :)t'cr syStcn tl.,. we havf' Lhe2.e i.J-:ay is d _)ur.Ping system,
S'U by Vt'Jalr, j An. it i tr.t: oniy ',,':iy in intcrmisslDI. t;'pe
r\
of sporting event that the maximum amount of revenue an,i t.h -,,:�xi ,t�;. 4nount
of beer can be served. That's fact, there's no other way to get around it
and this system that we have proposed to you today will work, no doubt in
my mind.
Rev. Gibson: Let me ask Plummer. This is a reputable company?
Mr. Plummer: Father, the Harry Wilson Company in my estimation is rrobably
one of the finest caterers for large organization , they did Hialeah Race
Track, I only wish they were pumping their clam ct:owae,r which they're well
known for and then I would consider thF:m an exnorr.. Father, '_here is no
question that this company is of the highest caliber that could be chosen.
Rev. Gibson: All right, look, I want to get rid of this business ",^.d I hope
you won't comf back here no more if we could settle today. It just strains
me to know c we premised the people this thing and we continue to r,:-jst-
pone and pu'_ _ _f and put off. I don't wont peol:dt_ to qet drunk but let me
tell you man, hey're going to do what they're goinc to do anyway and if
they're going to be happy and go to the game and have a goon time as long
as they don't hurl: anybody, you know, okay. I'm going to second your motion,
man.
Mayor Ferre: All right, is there further discussion? ,c_ th<. roll please.
Mr. Pliu%ner: Excuse me, under discu.,sion, M_,-. �.ayor, I rr,erely want to state
this matter was brought before to::ay without ar.: hackup material, there
Was nothi:ly that this Cc'"".:.-,S..Gil could sit back
tion admits thet , ",i `� ,lad nothing prior to t: . s meeti.: _ wnicr. t t:c:y could
analyze nor being put into, I for cor:. _u__.- b�jZcre and
will ayain that I'm very happy to see that t:. s co: -__.an is involved but I
think this Comjr:ission cannot make knee-jerk c:e:::isio n and I Just feel that
this Corms ssior. mould be afforded the opportunity to look into this matter
in full detail and that's why I will vote in the negative.
Mayor Ferre: Any further statements? Call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Lacasa who moved
its adoption:
MOTION NO. 80-296
A MOTION AUTHORI'Z.ING THE CITY MANAGER TO EXECUTE Ail AMEND-
MENT TO THE AGREFM NT WITH THE MIAMI DOLPHINS, LTD., PUR-
SUANT TO A PRESENTATION FOR THE DISPENSING OF BEER IN THE
ORANGE BOWL STADIUM YADE By HARRY M. STf'VENS, INC., CONDI-
TIONEL UPON THE MTAMI DOLPIiIivS PliYING $397,00�_' OR WHATEVER
AMOUNT IS REQUIRED (EVEN IF IN EXCESS OF "IiL i< 70LNT PREVIUS-
:,Y AG'�IFD TO IN T iFC,i, 'iIHE 17IP>":.i
F0 N UC.. DISPEI�S:G 0_ 13r:Ea; .�Jr.7::c;i?- :_._:'J TNS .i-iAT T:.
=-
i�,_
ATIvJN fhv' SATISZACTO".Y Uri:FFi: N G: Aiu _
ice, _. IIvG
SYSTEM = - ..-'.^ SATISFAC:iCi,' GF. E THE
ORANv7. ... CADJL?.,
INCLr_jLJ1ti , 1:7 Slli3STITUTING OrTHE _,�:YSTEY, SHALL
BE .C'7t: 20 .SF,_.L' .S .t.:. DISPFNSING SYSTE% AT THE EXPENSE OF
THE
Upon being _ - co:;.iE i by corr4i,: ssioner Gibson, the motion was passed and
adopted by t'ne fo1lo.Jir:c, e-
AYES: (Rev.) Theodore Gibson
Vic:--1%1,�yor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre ***
NOES: Commissioner Joc Carollo*
Commissioner J. L. Plummer.**
*ON ROLL CA--L
Mr. Carollo: I feel that this C,Om"ri-5-iion _,h inform. na-
tion tion before it to make a logicaznaz tn:L6 tiittur
has been brought here' in an way, r_nvrcic,rL-, 1 ',,ote no.
** Mr. Plunr)er: i'or reasons alreacy stated 1 %,(,.:e in t"ie negative.
- ,or F(-_'l re : a vo-L-(! yes, and I wo,.;1..a thoL wu con, -', h,jve
any pro1jiLmS Of le'lailty Or if YOU 11JCrl P'L;t this in the
form of a ',..,rmal to -Ls mut'G;l, tr,A bYlrs It bac': for the final
vote to this a the not;.an
on May 7th. !!,.it technically tilu will cf t-.rIis Commission is that you pro-
ceed with
T. -I t�
time that the ii.rry z ZI
Company if !re the ones- who art? propo�'L.Ilrj 4.t' h_It I M.Ist speak to
Dolphins the-.., cirr- w"'.-.: we arc, zontr"c-', Lncj with. that all infor"'-'d-
tion pertain.-,nli 'L,,) tinis sy.;t,.',n !-,c '01-waril,?cl :�h_uch
unfort'_,nL�teiy it i.} after z_n- _-act, .3o ':hat
C:an. at least
ir, tic- futljr,,_, star_ Lhlt Lhr.,j '.'I'ew t"116 s-lstcm 0., . ne-:- than
the v6ry i Woull re:-Iate
any hopt., will b(I
that I ft'L"L chat be
would it. on to eac"i-I -in,! evo-y
Rev. And please, for Go,�'.s sake rnnaKe sure: i.t works.
Mayor Ferre: We`1.1 s!!L you at the orange bowl on Augus- viie 10th with a
beer in our hanu.
Rev. Gibson: I want to be there to toast with you.
Mr. Aivarez: Mr. Mayor, you need to close the Special Meeting.
Mayor Ferre: All right, the Special Meeting is nuw closed ana we revert
back to the Committee of the Whole Meeting.
P.M.
I n'
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71V:Tr��Ijf.'•S
.-•ert back to the Ccim7itte-2 o-' he .4,�c_incj 1. � .1) Is
--iscayne 1,,:ty Manaq(mei-it and Co',_Inty--Wide
.cess by th n -e County. Al:.richt, mr. GrinuT,, the Chair
;n-)z(_, you, the Biscayne Manaqemt:nt 6uidejine:j and the people
from tht:! C-'),I'-Ity.
Mr. Grimm: M-,-. arl,.Z r.-?mb(.-s of the Commission, Mr. Reid is here to
j:reF;ent 3("r-,1TY,_.- ticn's viewpoint on the Proposed yuidelines for the
Mr. J_r R,!i.j-. Mr a;,d member.s of the COMInIssion, several weeks ago
req-.eS-.1"j a ,-Cm you t1nar the
nua which wa_3 on thoar
L so
recll'stl.:j that
C"UlItY the
w: i :7:_'
ma na tj c:: t ri 4 Wi'i-h e';-,a'b1i.he_` a r, F,w
of per-,n-"Lt.:r1(,- ',r: The C,-)�inty 0 rnm i r, -
u:',ari.inously anoz,,j
..
)F'hoLr (!usirc to ass,,lxe I
hay (11 end (2)
'_!icy passe.! on First RvArij;.*, -a. M,,Ly 2`,,:-
S Lcond hea,link; wlliich I lor
witli the County
.ties.
It was the citv's sta.*f ru,.omnencintion r y sIa,f sho -61 d be re—
quested tc (;(')IT,c-- befor(. this Cc)rLm.-,ssicjn ar.,i cxj�da.n I'D two things: (1) the
Biscayne Bay Xana(7,urent Guide, particular: Y Offect munic.palit-
10S and (2) the Proposed cjrclrar,,-_c end- wf- had really
t') COMC .1.1C. f0r YC,,jj:
tw" Of
4'_ 424
r le,
Mr. Plummer: Jim, let me ask this q,;asti.:,n t wi l be
incorporated in the presentation. There is a ,resat cea, of iegislation
before Tallahassee which is, as you know, in session. :;c%s t;.e depart-
ment been followin, that legislation? Do ycu know wh_re it stands?
Because you know we can sit here and ;:. wit,-. *-he County ar,d if the
State channes all tho rules in favor or the Count; we've wasted our time.
And I'm �Ctireci, thf: _1��'.�t"i�s',ion that 7 .-.�:t"E` �.S i.h• Count � 1-s letting llS
fight witn tl,,n ft:__y well that as ' o-cl .Is •w•t.'re ci.verted here
locally we can't ad::ress the State issue anal if it passes up there the
fight is ..11 over. Are you aware of the legislation in Yall.ahassee?
Mr. Reid: No, Commissioner Plummer, I am not.
Mr. Plummer.: That bothers me tremfindously.
Mr. Reid: b;t• r. have representatives in Tallahassee monitoring legisla-
tion but I am personally aware of it.
Mr. Plummer: That's fine, but it is very difficult to fight your enemy
when you don't really know who he is, if, in fact, that's the case.
Mayor Ferre: Well, let me ask you if you don't know, who doc.� know'.
Mr. Reid: Well, in terms of the permitting legi.--`.. :on it may be that
the Public Works Department is aware :,i it, I':I. not sure. And it may be
that our legislative representat.-.v•-, Mr. Sisser who monitors the affairs...
Mayor Ferre: This 1`_- something that goes to your juglar vein.
Mr. Reid: Well, my coirment to Coiiurdssioner Plulr:,er was that we have been
really addressinq our attention to the County's ordinance which does, in
effect, take over an area that had been the provice of municipalities.
Mr. Plummer: That's called winning the battle and losing the war.
Mayor Ferre; Let's move on to, I don't know, Mr. Grimm, if either you or
Mr. Fosmoen want to address yourselves, who does Mr. Sisser report to?
Mr. Grimm: Mr. Mayor, we'll find out the questions raised by Commissioner
Plummer so we have a better answer for you.
Mayor Ferre: WQ11, : understand that there is some very major legislation
already in the hopper.
Mr. Grimm: None of us are aware of it.
Mayor Ferre: And I think that's something that you ought to give us a full
report, i` w'',,ve to call a Special Commission Meeting for it you ought to
let us know. We _-ay have to go up to Tallahassee to deal with these things.
All right, than, y:u. We have people from the County here, perhaps they
would like to adcr(_,s the Commission. You're recognized.
Mr. Reid: Jean fn_)m the County Planning staff.
Ms. Jeal_ Evcy: Vy nat,c' is Jean Evoy, I'm project Director for the Biscayne
Bay Planning F:r-.; _t.. 11 nave 'Al.*_'_ me Tony Clem,�!nte, Assistant Director of
DERM. I wi' : the I' _nission's ..p. roval will di-scuss very briefly the back-
ground on the bay !•lar.agement Planning Process and the guidelines
not in specific L. t tl.e A-:-oCess L-31: is beirnj '•.I;U1 to formulate the guide-
lines anc: the prc•ce�;:, tn._ will he I.s,3 in ti:o ;'mature. Mr. Clemente will
discuss L11C p2o?'C:;`;':1 Cna..'lE In Chapter 24 of t.;i' Dale County Lode with
you if '}..:t i:, aC :C':. ` ..i1i_. 0',jy .7ho U1 ._:aync Bay Pici.`::.lii Process has
been goin j on 20�_ V a Yl' ,a1. i 35t rll t;:_ l,iI:I,L\' Mldnca eY ap-
pointed d moll".y o ' 61Ld1'v1C:�,_:15; t?,c•re was . )rn,crly a 7th indi-
vi'lual, t0 .wCrF _ tt. E and Qiri_-::t1o:1 of the L1y I;,,:"i:a'jc :t planning
process. The peoi)le _ wt :e SL1eCted t0 L�2 O: t}idt C>I": C't 'vJC- c Alice
''iainwright, former Vic(.- .,'. ,r of t.I.: city o Miami, Pay._; An,i:e Iiom the
Marine Council, Mr. TdiC` 1Ci. lt�a rvW d 1.7 i.1�3i1t, D'_..:-, [illy of. Lhe Rosen-
..
stiel School, Lf,stur Free::, I * tr;c. Greater Miami Chari:,�_r and Parker Thompson. '
They have '.furl;". j :i'_lL1L_ J1S ti.Tr__ ill 1,2Z aS i 1'_ �i:,"� �C SLa: T and re-
viewed staff products solely from tnr standpoint Ol policy and general di-
rection, we have two additional committees which arc a scientific technical
advisory committee made up of approximately 30 members of the local scienti-
fic community with marine expertise and we have a local government committee.
rt
Tt/at cia,=,ittee i.-:, nod of .,'.al I 1T.,
palities that border 'Day. iC ial ror re-
sentatives on that _:cwIm,.ittee 1.-0 c! F hil c, V; rk s
Durartrnuiit Mr. Re -id
add that. Xx. Carl 'Kc-rn of the Pzlrks haE7 ht�tn very kjen,,ro-us with
his tir-,C j:-," wl'-h ,_-,-imments 'rom time tc, tii-L-ic, c_ a.,, 1niGYrf2i1 b8C1S. T he
vel-, ,, proce.,.s, we '.IavC
starter :iut 4-t.- he ;cv1opnCrit. of Qoal_,. 1'.t1
is W'nt r,.:!
almost all pi A, i(l I Q E, c _iv.�s were
revitw 1-DY 1-he Sc acnt-fic, --he
Local ancl the Policy COr:1r-,ittL_; as WC1-1 wcr'.
a s t Or", .-3 r L 'I i t. w C 1- c :A t t en ] e,3 by , ie r. o f i;.f i.iC JiInter-
est commun.L',y. m.-,rine usi.,.rs, C. nf t . "at nat-
ure a-, well. a.-, ,,,..0r,.eowi,,c9i7 '-.!rDUE.'Sj UCVE.'acPF:rs d-,6 environme,_ in-,ure:its.
from al., of yrc),.;ps I:,F • well a�� 7;1,1,t fJ 0.t e
workshops i i.ng an: prcuit,ms
felt wi_-rt.� W�Ci the -)iarviow and sco-ne of ti-'C' b-ly FA_.11r,47-,C pl:?Cess, St.ff
prc 1.,,7-r:nc, -el�s t. ne W( r c I i :i n a
ry, and -7 SI) ice -
lines . Now 1 s,v.1 sta_�f i. f,.ec4n i w(Jr'?,.jnQ
tho st,f C.-F -
A. Dept
and in w,C, ICVlk"V' by oL:,_, P c, 11 4.
the to th,... D3(4,t_. C-1,unt%r r I I:- r V
goal 'An._�
L
:-.4 xi. ck_m-
!:)(:r 18,.ni that gGai w 11 C r, It to Cv C- 10 C II Olan for tis-
cayne Bay �ncl 11 1%roorur objt:'�'._.V(�S 'A-�rL' PY "Je D,I�e
J Com-
rissicn. T.ie 111-.10ed c-(..,Jerai arc -a.,:.,
one re(33rdin(j s s C a c c S t .'v, a .,..pond
major area reand ana 1--' -.atLral
resources a J., rd &re,, that the b_,, an,
f,.ria.11y a :,f -,-h,:_ rc,:c,!i_:-.i..-)n of
some c! the anc� th�,t 'l-lave -,z!de !)ay -.-...Anage-
Merit IMP-DSSirility in th�_!_ Eised cn, that goal
and tjhr�i-e and the wide ap,,,ount of I �,ave r-2-
ct:,!iv(.c4 frim tnk.i in e:�rly January and i.. .'ehruary w(-
again w. -n cy Cori--,., cur !,,ccal Gov,,rnment Cc,r,,;-,'trC,6 an:' our
SC:it!r1'.1.:.LC .' Corinittet- on ti-,e qui!,:lines that wt., !-,ad
And i woi-:.'Ld to say as a VEry
P:, s i t e ^lrt t c s repre.�tt_,,,L _,v,'s the Local Govern-
ment 1 i_i i :-,or, -t(!e pro,.71aQ -as w.,_ t , c.'. u L z, i 1.1 -1 1,-1C 17 i t C i
and of zhe preli-n.inary yuidelAnes an' i co�,-,men-s were
util`-.,:6 in revislnq the M, have .:.,t t:.is p,^,t what we con-
S__Uel. to GU Ll c.,raft cAL: bay They have no
legal stLtus, ',:-,iey are s,.m 11, a '_'raft -,-,Dr 'purposes of public (,_-6CUssion.
Ha,vi,,y gotLer, tc Cnis point we on :,taff r-,uve s,,-;c-.rit t'l-1c, iaa approxa.-mately
Month a half the oa--k9round sections relative to these
areas of iriu.lat anc�
i wit',-,:.n the next mcn---l- we wi-I hold yet another series
Of pub:, 'Lc wcrksho-,-�2, this time on the whole scczc of t'.%e qui"-elines plus
their :.a!:a. we Chat sto..)
Which will -,.'nu ear:v s,--mmer tni_n we A:,,j --.a tc - :E1COn-
At that wc will have wniat we- will
con3idcr :i -)re-I Ili:mana,4emer.t -plan and oca-n will :o before
both t:-,e 'iDci1i,.y 'ee, thy- Scient"fic and the
LAD cal Guvt % Comnittee. So I o,c that poant prior
t,:) il_S E,.L,1.4: _ - : o k; r ci 17 -c ` I repre-
1 0 lf._cial boarc�.� the C.1--v .D1
sentatic'n w-l i_,xtensive chance t.,, h6v(-_ :.pj, int.c the proc-
to thcE-i�
we submit it
t o our P n r,., ,_-_;ard tnl-i ever.,cua.I.., tc, 0%11. Cin-:nss'. 1)r:. Now, as
you arc! Au%,isory by _'_Aw will hr.__C, addi-
t47n,Al 't-,a:r, huve •to holir�: az
will.:
m,,, KI ,I i � r.q I., t.'- is an ex-remely
a., inc'r(di_b-le of chances for you to
have w,• h,6 r,,7:-_y with ycj,,;r staff
an th,,.. st_;,. f + Now
7crionally very much.
A,ic, I t a L W- A tla'.(U hC C n erc. are two
oLner Areas tn,r ;i, Vt?ry int,,_-,7ra' part: of
W1101(? •a.i that we are
pllacir,q on the 'ur-ki6n wui. u;,(r :',0llev6 t:-,&t Wer(--
c,4:-.ed at -;'_n-
t 'n C. c h 4 0 f
L
t e L! ti,dt wil. t'-I,s will
be our io,!, yoveznrlenL co,,1c_ -t_e upo.--, w'nich are We
ll r _,pre-
s (,, n t. L.,y . 7-.;,other .,cry aspect L)i -.::-,is whz)-Le marac"ement planning
P"Ocess is tne restc�rati.on enhancement act_vi,_*1es that are' being oversee::
by ',�,C D.-,.artment Resourcei incl as .11M sure you arc aware
wt' havt_:"t.-'G1VCC1 :or the bienr, -a 1 cYLie nc-arly a P.11Ilion dollars
r
to put rito improvement of Biscayne F_-y. "h,, , . , , ( _: ^_ _ .,_..,t,what
separate is seen as a very important hart of `r,.s W}.oitr pianr,-
ing thrust for the bay. Now 1 woul,,' b'c h;:r y to 0:-,5wt_r any .,pecific ques-
tions you ll i')1it have on the bay plane iiih wi t;roc ss or any (.ucstlons you
might h.:,ve on the auidelines that 1 believe yc),:'ve be(-!r. supplied. Mr.
CltC:E'n`.. W} k'lt:li nic will, if y,",u d:)l,'t il:1Vt any �,L;ostions of me specl-
fical iy ,;' ti,.s :n,.);,'_r:t, wi11 hroce(_i w.1t;1 ':hl2 t>.";entAticr. on the Chapter
24 chanc,:ej in Lne, Da,-..0 ,_oux,ty Code. "::ant: yo,.;.
Mayor rc::. _. n, rl .i,t, now b(:`orc., you leave, r�oing to make a
present.aticn? Yes, because I've got a question after your presentation..
Mr. :'vr:y Cie me ,te: Tony Clemente 909 S.E. ist Avenue, Me•�ropolizan Dade
Co:h:i y De;•,:..,,c'r1t of Environmental Rt'sources This ordinance
whicr; wu..., f,'rL tilt:: CoLinty Cumu-as,,i3r, for d 74'i Orii :.tt ::G a nu Uub-
ll_ t'lea;".l nit .C_- Th(_ inteli ion: CE tth=5 (i_.._ :_ :(2 1- ::J: tG re-
empt ti;c a'.: _ r.U.L . _y of u: r,:unicipaiit , to (.x+..leis �:i•, 1 ...... _ ty of ls-
suan e c,
tO eiit,l)), -�ac . rl:c'.� r�n c` r`c a coal:
al.i of Dade County. TnI2; all coastal
CciC,stru(:ti,n t:iat 1S ;}eawana of the r1e:3Ti hic]h wat'ur and In art -as w*': : it
is C i1' '_CU._ t to --1 terinl ne, the mean hi.(-- wc:Ler whic,a are 2(_ _ _ _:i :i
CCU3` tdi 4C i:,r1G'c ,� )_,st.s vE_cictdtlo n.In UtTier w. i-.:s 1''11^.: areas that
Ur are is C'-cat have ,-,_....., f l iled are not
aife..i es.t ':_ tT;i_ -J.. ]nanCf No Zon..1i' ..5 d`.ft.�t_t_�.., b;/ ..^ice ordinance, only
:.igh '%ut:r or in CO:iC t:al wets and
limas wR::rc' ei,E:Ya'1r,lr:: .^•lean; ;llc:i: W3•_Cr IL aiffl ._11. ._, d veyei:ation
anialysl ; 1S se,- _ cT:lirtf the extent Of tildi CJa `.c ,DdCt. Agdin,
a::, fay- a:: r.i:• i a or the ordinance ._,, cities;, no 1.�' rmit fce is required
of any _ .. �e:> ,-,r any worn :lone treat -eq.;lrt type o= permit, no
is required of any citi,_:; for wtJzk that they perform
for tne-Lr fi UJCC t;. ThLf O:her cOmmittee t'1-.,t wu'v Leon workir, y With and
we will Ill%, with r,n . x!, ^tn, that we had ;in 1;i1t7ui mt t.:tlnf l,.th, is a
j0 n t :iiS'.i;"t Ce, d COu"ay ri,'.,nacjr-al div:sJon O: t I iV1G.
�C Vt :.rb: .tn tn:_. Cit:i LC :1,1,._:Ss me c:,.,1t5 L.oncurns; rJt- only the fact that
th_s o=:;:.:.a':Cc c; _., n1- t pr,--empt the ci _:es from iss,_ing coastal construc-
. cIr, _:e:.r:.._ :_-,:i also that the Coun`_.y will rc:;uire approval from the City
before: any Co'„nty ;-jenpdt will be issued.
Mayor << All right, are there any questions? Mr. Reid, the key
sent:_....0 _11 yi:ur Ir:e:norcncum are 'The ?la:nr,_Jn, Department views the
County's orier:tatlon of the hiscayne bay %lanagement Plan as a :Hove to
S1}]'lens C; m:�Il1C1=3' prerogatives In regulating control Over Zoiil;l; and
sits ::i:.n:iin rc\l,-w. In sur,:narv, the '_annina and Public Works Depart -
that the objectives for Biscavne Bay Management can best be
served b•, e;.c:h ;Ju;,icipality exercising its development regulations and
coast,-` -:-':sting within its own jurisdiction." Now do you still main-
tain -:ar p i, . then?
Mr. :.rid, 'ccy, :I ,i.,, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor r�azrt_: 'fhat's ail I wanted, just a yes or no. You still maintain
that os:..ir✓n.
Mr. R,:id. .. -,'L,. a ':ofxt;c .
Mayor F•errt_: tier, do You want to expand on that for any reason?
*ir. P.-id: wool(, li.Kc! to expand on it by saying that (1) we agree with
Tn Coo~1;.; t:ic:l: the Da.y :,.s a tremendous resource, we want to protect' it
and we .'art it i:•', -,roved. A—,-ld 1zhe question :s how do you do that, how do
yell ...::;t G', Lt. A—i . , wuCid linu to work with tree County in terms of a
}.Jant ni,ill or-,,1_,tUVer wo, c hoos,;t tO call it. But
i - that. in '._nls process we Tt�el that pr, licy quld-
c.1ric:0 F, 110111C C,_:mt' _..,:"i Lea_ �i::,.'l1SS:.OP. su::h a._+ rhis, manlclr•31 co-zrt:sslons
in r ., cf .:C' `_ nr the Ie':_:ldtlons (1) dnC 2l 1) that we
1:C'_. the, Cart ),t..:.., _ the ii ,rse. We shouldn't talk about enacting
biro~e we tsar cl,!: r sEr,se of direction, a plan in terms of
::.ir k'C w"'.I,I: '� ) aCTiic`✓e. A.:C. _.`,F- i"tci '�d+'IUI:S ihems(:1vc5 -,Osc, r, )blem5,
t!.t1re 1S 1":;, Licit, i!. t:;en, _ori
t.+j;. l.•:� P,Tliir611r:e In terms of the permitt:nc: [_, 1";�i: C:ss. We uur.'t know what
c:.xs ml-'ans, we doll` - know how fa: upland t:,at would be c =fined. We think
t}::-it a:, terms of "simplifying" the permit process that really the only
. i i;. ;,ta on tat occurs is for smaller pro- ( c,.s, tho:SL wao .,;oul be
import,.,nt, 11 you will, to t,t. overa'.1 Peter(: of the bay and to the
21,
people who live
in
the City of D iar,i is rea:ly e., .:
--'c°'iurai go:•srn-
ment and the State
doesn't de e(ji'tc ...•t _ . r' r l t .. -
•: '.:.er tea', er
l� �i"I .V t'a�..t.'lY l;U�i,t to
"
of per^-'ittia
So
l;U+ �� t •�
we think that ti t' ` :'
L. ..
be a man,: ,t-m,_,.,t
:'1
thc, 'goy (2 wc? rus`.1 Lo
ray .ati�r., t",ere ouy'tlt
to be a loc of
tnought given to it.
Mayor Ferro: ?br. :.eid, I }lave a quastion, t':t_ ;ast q',v_,s_: on of you and
that is as I understand this this has been passed on first and second read-
ing.
Mr. Reid: it :Ids bee'i Pd3zicd on First Reeding on April lsL, the second
reading is May 2)th and there is a meeting sciredulea_ ::or Mlay 7th with the
County staff dn�, a aozen municipalities who have problems with this legis-
lation.
Mayor Ferro:: t,:_ y;:4 s,:he,3ule this then to -.cme up before this Commission
on May 8th s� t wr.; can then take proper legal action to enjoin the
County? I woui" _SlrQ, it would be my intention to hire a trial lawyer
on this ar.r I would hop you would reco,%-,end by May nth, Mr. Alvarez, 1
wz)uld }:C ie that you would cjxie back with a reCorixnai diatiun fc,r a good trial
lawyer t:.a` would b(- familiar with the area that would supplerr,::nt our own
forces in trio Attorr,ey's office so that we wo'ald have st.I :� 2t'.•i _Jc'lta-
tion in the c,aits. ;)o you want to add anything''
Mr. Clemente: just two points. The fir... point is the term contiguous to
that Mr. Reid rt_ c- rred to is being r,%.noved 'from tic piece, we suggested to
the County Cununission....
Mayor Ferrc: _.id, are you hearing this? He said the contiguous to
is being removLcu.
Mr. Cler.,ence: TI-le staff as d result of the various meetings is having
with the municipalities, the environmental groups, the Florida Marine
C011nCll 8Yi lOGiil lCj at Sli j,,�estions and proble;',s that they have ceacer r.ing
this Ural::a'';C E one o: t.7e q'.:cstiOns t:,at' 3 comizt up is the war.: ".^_or:! i'_;uous"
to, as -ar :S wIt<a c:0e3 Lititz. r,iean. .o dc`ine t.'iat V:C %ound is v( ry ♦.ifficult
and wha,: we die 1:0 L1U9'7(:�4.: to the County L.t)nunis!! ion when it comes up
for secc.r.0 tl.eao: ng iS to remc)vc tl.n3e two worts '^_ur.z.igUO'u to" bt"ca'USe the
intent 13 Ivr coastai pernizl,.inq In the sub-
merged sic i' s�awaro or r.-.eLI:, hi,,n watt:r. T-ne iri'cunt of ' :le Co'::;ty is
similar to ,file followed ly State r-.r,.a :'o.lerai .�;c,vernment which
.,ays that 'lne- sLat, ai-,d Fe.:erAl Government. !-,as tll,.: r-Lghn or a cuunty or city
has the riyh—• to impose more stringent standards but must adopt at least
these minimum 3'_andards.
Mayor Fer.re: Okay, I'll tell you what, you convince Mr. Reid of that and
the City stuff and I'm sure that will make it much easier here.
Mr. Clemente: ._4lt•reciate that opportunity. Thank you.
Mayor Ferrel All riq'-t, we'll see you again on May 8th. Thank you. Is
there anything vise or. item C?
9 c 7��
• � tx^. � 9i..ti!l.. :"J►::a..�Y'.,r'..�.�,r .. .,,..:� _ .iti ws... � �; �.::....
It
ITEM: BOXING A"JJ H'RE'_7TLING 60Hf;D
'r�+.r - n.a:.r-; ......jv .). 11.. "7.";,T!r!.. ..�.r;'"t°"tlYo'�S !rr'r".�,3'M:•-n�,.«.� �, ......,
,,.�� ; -. :"J_..• .f-,. � "-' wr' :" � r .' 9+ "R'-rtYtjn . � c •F 1*.}r41�n
Ma'•'or .'..I . i'C :1:.;t ;ill;,b+`t:h at':11C.., poor
thr(_-ri .::iu a }tc'_.f �1',tl' arc. I anolC7gi e for gnat, iiLa..._ P., b'... '011 "I -,Ow
how t;tt: C :'''.: F'.inct].or:s. We've gc•t. the Tr;attur Of the bcxinc ar:c
wCGstl':.:ICt . .'a . .. i j iza; eth, wE,.re golr.g to l isten to you in a n,-,,r.cnt f)llt
lC3t'E lE' %'r�i"rj make::ls sL?t( ',"rit f1iSt.
"1 ii i:. •�:,:7 :car., ".)cc) Vi dir, 11 d have prc `c_- ' ona1 board LOY
au,_ wrest.l....:r, Tl-io fight crime. kin.. of tied out for a while,
fi'rlL a:"'C and hF' -,idT%'t nced t_%at board, It defunct. NcV:, rL-Cently
the'-e, 6 y: 'at interest In r rofession-il Doxing co:TJ.n j beck
=' has b'.:"Gli^ht it over to tn,: fror,_=UIi, he WOl-:1.C1 1.:'tC�' '_.O bring It t0
., \'C aaot:iar prGT(,o',_er who w:-ulda like to CSC rrlck
can. rt. lt�t Cnc-•:;1 C;G'."t: 1'. ...�_._ WC.iftVC d
board .) c,,t:._e th[: '.,oxe s anu t.id, promoter must b(and fees must
:)C =„, Ic"Er' So c tt: Cnly rua5on that 4_ •J ^.i L .. . Dard is be taut these
rilCnr,JLE'rL C;_n TJ'uC_ irsL ratf: 17L `C':: 1C?nal TiQ_hts i.-,to the City of :fi uni
and we co'.:ic ma'- to money in
:a;"vr !'c . .� urt a::, ),,e i.._'.I",1 i•Z of thJ - bo r C.I1 Voll hGW I feel
about, t.:, . _r: t'r,- f irst ;;lace let -TE. start off that ;:a'✓e no problems
V."�.'", 1: ".. •. .Z_s. .,-. t . ]ghtl"^.C' I Fiersor,i.'Ll.`, h:.'✓:. I._ mcra.. tnE,oret-
1C2•_C.,:73id,ra_ions or :cncernz; abc)ut protesslonai boxing.
In Lhv '.et Irx- tell you 'chat I -4o not thir:k that v _ . can have
b(-,x:r'. j In Verrick ;.gym because of the Cr,l-;_it..onS imnosed by
t.h"] _ :' c'.n l >>V•.=.r"1.T• nt, the U.._. Coast Cuazd wller, tha Ca': _ `dj:dt f.rop-
�,
ertl Yl: _ ab].Il _- that, rind f,Crn i� :TIGat .:ota;,`_ Ot all. ter'; "lI .r_fie box -
inn pro ;r,.r; '+/:i1C,. '1,1 :7abetlT hLis been the ancel of for .-'nu last, I
mc,-.1 years, 3^.0 Coc:J!1'.it Grove Care: has ,i)eErl a part of is
iL Somuthinc- ti.aL T_ am fr:i'.,;iy aF'.-.1Mf_ O' . I am,, ashamed
ui,lr.k 1': is a bla k 'a•'e 'in t:.::c. hiszcry :of the City
],• OGI ly .., n3'.;'C, It ..� 1"' : •r' , c11P1r.1SLE7rC9o, 1'_ 15 �ncffect-
ith-.k att:_.. e-1-lere is lax. i don't think
h=_ = is till'; EI " S'_ of Tl1d�:l.r _ It better. I think th,':t tail is a natter
t •t'Z iOi"ti i .=a : ncern. N-ow I nave ecru after thi:, administratlon for
three ic':. y__i.!= 1:'7 ether get ricl _,_` L-It-_ c:, fined operation or clu.:.r. it up.
:;` ,abut:'. . uy:, :�:r. :;ttE>ntion to P1;:.~.ner aac, c•,_dently nc):.!ody pa,'s attention
t0 _ i-r AI1,1 _ want to tell you thct I vU'u hLr'_, ind I'm cjoing to
arm of a motion. . dnn.'t. wan =G }ic-a?• anvthi.nC; else about
in, "... ..^c !.,ere' on `_.he bntn dal �,y a:':'7 lG u tell
me W.^.t t! eY
Voll' i.e _.:)l;tr SE that g.'.. C C W:i t:,G. E'� and 7(: _ rlv Or. L'riat tt'rrih,_
„?_a tii;. ,_a_. ,. '.ti .. .c'e or whG yr)-u're <;6—Lnc to :Il r-C anv .:c::t rid Oi t..o5e
p r,l e ;a- : r•_. ; 01, , - I v inept cows ther,,�f ,_r:d _ want tc, know wlnn tau : ro-
_' oncy we, 'e Giil': G ,'1:t _..t0 :_L , _ W '.: t0 So,
_ want to Se: rids from L:.0 !-,7"Ove an: from all
o"er thizi 't., 'ur.l't! _ til.::Cj -,ere. necau.:;u whit i� _Raul .:,i.:y, and ::, go-
inr, to u alE', ..._ seat by a boxta_ irom U:;iverslty of
VO,..:. .,'_Omdd... i lir n, an z :. WOu.. .. l lkc, F:llzj.�eta, for
you to -: VE n .. _ i.hz• t kid's lc `L,_Y as to why L to-._'pt ', going to
'anl i :•,ss. tl-!,_ res, h... of course. you
C-Oun° .:1.e _.: in tis r" rjnt mind tnac h,..- uny self rBSL'BG
that. we tail a boxing gym and a boxing
r,`^;_,graIT. wa ;,00- }•' U._-.raz. l? E:9Y5 a:j;: , :t w,ts; a meriiocre %rocram
f "'C ,.L .j"?Oii.i _ at this p'Dlnt A:i: r i dan't want
cil.har, oian a�)r)C:li�3:.1.011. %n2 I'iL not
joing L:i cj d!_ j C`.'': :T`.lClit.lt j:tGl;':Cr:. Ly going t0 ' YGfCSS.iOn31
t•!�xir: :lz,_}: _s r, of ,gin
-I r:14S ypl:n�; K1dS
lCl 4t'., _ L I ':(', ] !.':c rE.S'Lc _ r.•"G ':1: ':1 �L= an(i r.Ot tfie pYC' e _C Jl it boxers.
bc)xets, ✓O11 ':.eli me that
'�:)u' Vt. Cj„, :✓t.•� ;A"Jxi.n- i_ :' C)c: is i.n 1"ior3'jla is i71 nC7 aOlJn there at Verrl Ck
m s;sdl ii ��1Jpnrt } 10:. :t.r yo _c','£.,1o::ai buxi t•it
i until you
ao that vnu cio:,' t have my vote.
Mr. hGWarU: Well, I have to disagree with you, I think we have a very
good boAir,c program, you've got one side of the picture and I think some
Of thGsc :rt i lr,ut'nCCJS. We havt- l::ld })Clvs fror.- all i)`.'t': the' Citv in that boy-
3 r l,. ,, • . :i:T�,e:s. kt- ,.,:vc _o- organization....
00 1-+Vv
Mayor Ferro: At the last boxiLng. . a. Shores
up at the losta time when
we used to have 30 ird 40 k-Lds mere.
Mr. Howard: one of the problems we riiv(: w.. tht., b.:;xur,_ is that SOML of the
organ i are new (jivi1-,(,,' U:,Jlfca-mb tc, t*-.(_.i.`.., o_`Irler !:,oxcrs. We have
not been gi.vinq then uniforms LoccAuse it iL ;i,)t a City proyrar_ There
are a I Of
nt?)or on, - -ties involved here. However, i w,tuld likt.-
4 o Say
that we h,j,ye _Ai.6 we. i:r ;-Aink-, arraiojt_,rrcnt5 now `tD staf-f cut of
1 1.11 1 ---- in a of c�:ocper-
that cq�,m ot`
_1,-,; ,rr �;4.&ff 1n. A"_' 6 2
ation tG in -.-hc,rc to :ir:_,%q -,.*r,---, pro(.fcc. nick. `,, i e : e have
been prob" cir,:�, but T _
.T.'cn' L think the)" 're as inenci tntioal i, yo1,'re
It is still `od buxing well Participated.
Mayor Ferrc., don't buliev-_-. it is a qooi boxing procra,-_ Elizabeth?
m-rs. VC-1-rick: 3;_-, Ma-,2-rice, 1 havc Lold yoi:, scre 'i:,-,in,:-s abo,,.It the
pro,31:1rri, riot a!- of the V.-,at you s.Ay _4L� !,,, Ir t
-.a s bc.en a tc-,-r,_b1'r., uphil'_ ficnt the, l,st two -yc..,zs rr so and `m afraid
this is not the or for ine. to say wnN, 7 It happened.
camo to you asilin- it the Cit-y (;_,ve me cr c;ive Coconut Grove Cares
'Jr :4c2m-_'njtratur J:n4n thf:,-L- to '-)uild t`i-
vou hc4',U jn,_
i:e that
Ion Lo q(,' -, thi_,�; r,,--..n that you have in or o4 ecua' tature s
,;o --hat w(- can it up. Now I wi-' co iia'.' i Cl,,in(�s for the
herle-fit G7. th'-, .1'slollers to wl-1 nitve not to I c-nd that is thLit
(7,ur amateu-z- buxin,-. - e� .,:,
o ra � r, L)C)Xlnc;. is lo tu,n around
�.he yours,_� men in who are hc-a6Ec in wro-�,7 way,
it is a with seve-ral tyz_,es of f-r hbcxt:rs
,and t h- i r f il, i t_ s e 1ca L -1 ona I ly 1- "LC`- -wise .. r_1 ir _ r,-,l s o t1% e r *1'- 1 n(7 s
tlie prc,,ran not o7. Now vou S , 7��
wnich are conn,,�L:ti.� wl I J
you have nut'Li:-,g 1oxincl, wo d10 Can to
Jam( Gal: -Doi -nto profes.3ion.l b,-.:xing that
is not t. roii_on wc�7re havc ver-,
in
It sh��Ild he as,-Dc:iatec: in th(-- Or
boxq bey :_-Ise n-3,,, L=,z-- viorl3s apart. 14ow i want
the or,portlir. Lty 1 tOiC ,:u to Lll1I.J. thlat 'Zla,_K uT-, I Z!, I i n'f
we ojn dc, ir- i: the Ca,ty I help us witl-. &n aom-_-Astj a,,nr an, --A if can
tha'- on down tntzre an(,i if we -_-,--in di: a of
_�s nw ru*,tij-,g a r.(2,,s ro(,f 3,-, 'A(- 'Luildiro7 Which
I -,,'Lsh they ha' 1-cwcrc-d the c.:_-ilizngs sc we could have air con-
d 4J_ t i on i n (-v,_-:,.*uaj-- -,. I b,,;t it was too much to ask and we're 7real:fUl for
the r,)of It actually rained n. Now 1 am here zc ask you, and I
don't )%-.-)w !)w ary of the Com_-n1,3sioers except Mayor, to rc-_fus,: to
have pr��fessional - boxing in that gym, which by --he way bears my rai.ie and
z
I would not want it to bear my n.-.me if it had professional boxing in
therc. a_'k = because I have , ren what is e t,) do, we <lld
lip well -."he first 5:evGral `'Ears i know what. it L:an
ao. 1 'hc: to sct... i, turn the ycung mon lrounci 19Cj decrees and i kri.-_)w that
we L-art contin,:,a u.-I 'o thincs that 1-icIr the cora,unitv VnEreas professional
boxing L0eS h.-'-, .hi- coirinunity in my opinion.
mayor Ferre. l-,i and : have just a 61ffere,-ice of opinion. I
have ev,�,r, that we gut
no boxing providing, how
LSE? to i,'ar. As soon ds we qet that where
i think wc. _--i: -,,d c,what w•� h,:,\,e then :'v% golL no proLletis. But
I think `J wc., .'Lalin,-7 wi". prc f s lona I boxing what is going to hap-
pen I--,- thc kids aL Dint tit jit _`hcv(_-d aside an.: we':.-, qoinq to end -up
with J%L -hat and the f7act is that i don't trunk
wu can hd,,,e pr(.,.,- under the reUUldtiOnS of what the federal
90Vt,rj,4M07,t! gd'j(� U1 Chat
Mrs. VerricK: I rri2nk so.
Mayor Ferro: You c,-!-eked it out?
Mr. Hc,ward: Yes we did, can bring them in because you're leasing the
gym, money going i;ao the ----
Mayor Ferro: Well Okay, I think -the point is, well obviously, I don't
think we're going to settle it nere tot.,zty but I would like to recommend,
Mr. Acting City Manager, is that you schedule this back on the next Com-
nission Meeting or whenever you're ready.
'31 r
z 4 1980
r
10
Mr. Howard: I think that is too early because i:: :.0 i)oxiny pi,)gram
out for another month because of the hus beer suspended
by Coconut Grove Cares 'uecause of that prci drution.
Mayor Forr.e: Al, luok, when: t•r,at program, when we started with this whole
Dick Lee situation and this thing sta�7toL to go gown the rjrain Plunner came
here all how bi,rl it. wa . anc 11ow _ . s iould be changed and
what have you. I must say we didn't pay attention to Plummer.
Mr. Plu,1.: ur: W},., do you tr.ink I resigned?
Mayor Ferre. Yes. And Plummer was right, yuu know, any: it is another one
of thl'_�e -'.-1i, that Plur:anel can Say, "Hey, you didn't listen to me, I
was rig:lt." ljr.Lnc'r, i apolJgiZe tG you, y.:)u were 100i, right and here we
are pa•: i::: tI. I rice on it now. And 1 want to tell yoi. this, that it is
never too t anc as far---- Now I went to the :•ianayi:r two year, aco and
I said, Lir. i. ...,tq0 , the. 3-yr,-.,p:c co;7(.:1-. that Knappy is lire a: J!racu:,e Unl-
versit..:y, :,c : -_tired from the Urilted states Navy a5 the Navy or l.lr
Force cr whatuv(r it was boxing coach and : e is tine of the fc.ur Olympic
COu.:11E.':, with (,Ur oiV,T,p1C -cam 1.1 11376 anG he was :,arReu t.:ll:; year a5 the
r..aln coach fo.. _G, C.l}'::1_:1C Boxing Team, i Said thL. 11--ir. 1S avallabi •, he
will wcri: for , Ic,000 bC'C:ausc ne has a pension, I think tt'..1 i.S a
of a 5t cis, U:t tht: ally Gov-n here. TiI e mcin wc.:s h,rq' cwrl ... r ., he was
interviewed, I've never met the. man in my Lift _sr 1'vc only talked to
him once a:;a tnclt WELL-' :]1-ter. Filla y:Du know w:.,_t 1P_ told me? He said,
"Mr. Ferrer the first thrct �,,uestiuns I knew that
t hosf- f.7E:OClli:' d4d1.1' _ '.,•ar.+.. iari-d. They were ju: t Cut ways
to sto> me from :i1. A:n"- that's all right, 1 care., i C.on't
need t:,F -.. i:::CrL'a :lo FroLlem." 1. don't want Mr. nt_re but I
don't wi.c- t`,_ k,:id of ju:.k that we havl. down t!:Crc; an,, I'm going to put
that tc you i:, th:;sc, words - junk that's junk t:,achinf; that we have down there
and Z don" f:1: K, rind the reason, the proof of the pie is in the eating.
We had one bc:.er there last Wednesday or one month ago - ont .,fixer. And
if we ha`n' t gottt-,n r;.lds from Ora Locka and other Cry.^,1S t
have hc,=", .i 1';Cc:t L=.CYC Ar'.i the reascil why we have one. TSther
th„n t.^e -,u or 4,` we used to ~hive is _ -7aus'a of the q ial , ty of 1--hat program.
You get t_r,a. pr,:,•:ram up to quality and tnen we'll. talk about professional
Loxing.
,'y'ir:;. v'E:'rLCi:: .t:: L'rle. Meantime, may I submit: to the Cc,,rmissiun the condl-
tlr,, o u:.i=-r whl, h we would 11ke to OUdrate? I t,J:l'l_ snow whether you rem-
emt,er or not but whe:. Mr. Me! Reese was City Manager he maade a very strong
line of CIC'TC.a; "= tiOri C,etwecT the tralnlaC. curing the day -1.1me and the Wednes-
day %1CJ-.t ma`ches. Thlrouc-h the years the lines i-,sve 1',ecomo blurred because
Mr. HJ+] l'd h,_.s us some in -kind services beh1 nd the 5. enc on the
Wedr.e —,ay r iq .'ts so that it wa;i sort of d 1 think we would
do bettez if It were not that wa'; , but I would '. eke to ._ ,.:,lt to the Com-
,nis;.-eon t:.. w':" I would like: to see it done. And I t-lir:n the reason we
are the do it....
Mayor Terre: 1: . ,eth, could we do it this w;.y, because we have to get on
with some otr:c:r :r.:. _ . n is? I think the way to do it, if the members of the
CoramissJ-... wi '.., �' have you ireet with the administration ana Mr. Howard
and Mr. ,:,.'re ready you come back here with a:, evali',ation
of the p�,_ , ar,, ; _ wi.a; the problems are, how you ..Ian to
and t!.en az: me cx, e we -,.. that then we'll talk ::bout tatting a box-
ing L:)aY';; .,. 7 ('Cr.• letF_1 azcept the TECUi*,:r1ei.::a�l��:i Of
y the names,
i
I. vE wit,"i -.:he- dames r,:com;menued or the ho,,rd, 1 :,.1ve aLSOl-
uteiy t.r.at Does anybody feel differently?
J'(;e? Fnthcr : d_,n't thinK we need to make a motion then do we?
DO yuu r,er_:7 a t. 1 u,: U1.
Mr. Grim;-- Nc,, .11 .
Mr. Plummer: It'-, - , ;t_ dis-ussion.
Mrs. Verr;ck: Now , wix did you tell me to get together u.'ith?
Mayor Ferro: Mr'. Grimm u., :• _ . 4rassie. Okay? And you give them your recom-
mendations ant. you come back, het her !snow when it is that we're going to
discuss this again. Okay? -All right, thank you, Elizabeth. Thank you,
Mr. Howard.
32 ,
'11 j` U It Idli�/
`t
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LYtP,T I t:Ii2CRA`1.
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•. ='lt.ar aww.r LtYIt0�A1►r.r1+c19'rllYit�lit/1�
M: iyor 1C'rrC : I Tti'l l l r,cw 7"CCGC'.i1Zn D1r . t GSC�iI LtiC)G::f,l 'K, C.`l is IT :n _he
tort ncast Area S'.lb-CE unc il. yr. WoounicK, yo- spent t}'ree c'r fu'ur '.-:curs
waiti.nq for us ]east time, you s-nent an hour and a h I I f -,q in% 'ur uS tn1S
time dn,i T a:,.:l -ize to you, sir.
TLr, Jost -_ph E. it.. ,:.nick: nant you, Mavor, 1 , tlt'ss 1 f;,lCJ+i, C.:.11 It .'atls-
factUry. I r. - �"ited anthi:7; is the tir>t_ rlrr. I've i',ad _hc 1Jrivilr_due
of sitting a COir.nis1 ;] un Mcetlnrg G;: + :,t' Cray �(. $ 14,'_ . If I m:' i ;.aKE:
bus; n(a,s but I Wr)ndercd if to _ e
ce ;:-" issicn 'Jnd t_h1 ! exr'e its -ivi' i:`.. :T.UC:n at C';;l ien -:C the bCEr q011:(j
:lOwfl 65 'I;C'y Cil.;.t lj:',ii1G up:' It t',a� �v _ iC��d in bOCtl ti.rE:� ..lO;i5. B:.t ..:)d^,}:
you• 7 h,tvt_' not!-` tIT;:L. on sC_v,',r7.'. other ll-e_r 1 ','OU' t' ^''".(_ Gl'! ' - :r you vE' race
30ir!e: CC', '.+tnt Lr.EI: i!a;T:r rhu _:riCc'. `.'i;s: .Jr.'• i6 wlli C7c..i..fi!
u:,d ricti cad V(_t: r„ 1G a I
_D St?u _ `u t ci{e. a :r ink Gf water. '✓.t, ,ra-.?r- 61�)71 i . nG?"`_I:l.a t
a. -ea of Minri and CnE dr)w;:t.owf. :irC'a iS. rea. , )n th ,.,:` I 4:.inLe:. t0
t,..1k. ;.o tnlr. Ccrr,-,l3sic.n. I d,-) N)' `re,. cnt , as t% a' ..", fn _ lrr:7lcate
r
the Ctnt-_2'F. area , It 15 O:._'J 1: eas' . . f I fi , ' C'G _L ,
letter tilat i l,`1t t.. 'C i 1t_ the_ lash Cumr,i. 3L_Cf +�i=r1:...' J:r ye"1 h_-.V
th,,Se letters 2+'. r yvU. ._)U CO. I'1_' try t.o C'r'r;Cc, fi e .t is as u` UC � p� S-
Slk:lC-. TO rr'i re_' h everyone's mtmr`ry, on the ,-f 1:. .s ::rograr. It was
a 5270, (JC0 L.:.i-:A _:2 cint w.1th Y3r), Ql'l7 mutchirl(j `unds %!';,,.. "_ha_ City Of
'fkles'_ 1ariCI_. wo_'rC c-tante! by T.,IEAA with a wr1*tt.;-, (.'.lv:..-1t: for the gr,nnt
signecl by VGu. _::c: M•: iyor. T1,e C1r'ant is Clei;i iC_d SC targE:
FIVE'? t7rea,
C:ocJn ut G`cvc' is :i4' "+1, lL1mC._ , iaCiwnTtDwr. alnr. "Inge_ .1
in t'ne r E _ ... .".u�'.1 :7 Or, ,..:k to
problt f'..: r,C. 11t111i:E I7,CrC. Li'5,..•irCCF: .'V.dk>,i: t. �v_' .;c•-,. ,C.CK Cr, OY
n0 ^GOTG1.^.0 1.SC ef:ortZ, Gi C:7'•,1rSC:, t}li" C'G lri:?551::^. 15 a rC'LO_:rc._, that's
why I'r,'• -,erE .. ,.Yiat (lied ;;c,-c al:r,uar, _'r.. .-or. r `hl.; ;.:" -Gme ever can
eve::y(>`il, i.L<ir me rope-rly? Tnt a: en1c, didn't e aI 'J ci 3 irC'.f_:S the twG topics
tha w7,ntod to apnt:ar be: fore yo'' aLbou - . i 7r c bC T l.r at 1C i,: r One nor-
r,CJ_1,1Pny ainc], ()ur:,c, the cihE_ lc. I ad ESS por-
;iOGrapily filSt 1'il. Uo SO. There wCre _' t t^.: :ri_.`l r t.litll .. n` :•OO}
;tnz,,S _ erat.in.c i. Miami w`li -h Y: ,s :;e :; d',.:-e tc 9 cuE tc) eircr`.c of
M13m: : -.)-ice Department': fin: ' SrE�:liil 1'-N 'i ic:ativQ SC?,:tion who i,avt• done
the«r �ct we11. The re,; %inin j C'UF _ntN,-sse?s app- ar t-1 have i iI'.i ~E C func:s
with which t' 'On tent tine char,,cs in court. u. GL em
dose:. - nn af-
-
for,. this, .0 .'alI ..n m1:i6 the r70_ J]i>ii i' G1 :'(1.,._Cti._.".S wizh organized
crima ror tr,u., rE_'r. A.ning. I've :L15'_ed
I1 Sk:Lp. COnvl�tlof,S O: `...nc-SE CG _':iOr3 i ....7 e_m) 1'i?ye]E'_
LL 1.;i•...__V ,:p',:il v,.`.h a low O: _ one-. Cor-, _ tl:.l',, a ]: J1 37 for
u 1G =ht'r. Ti-,( .'.•: 9 r" n',lry Cif US, LI11 rl.'✓@ 8 tOta 1 1 1. Tax
�C'i lad : _:�':+ t .. '. rc inCc ! t1'_ lilt- 4'1 T..
_O cm, Ir t,
Of rid.3_n,� ;i(• ..:.,:, li;i:'.: t :'-,bsce.%Ity undQr _.c:w5 4: ;t'tF•ii tU .let. E'u :!i com-
r:_nity declic1S G1,. 'C.ii' iiY:" .. it ^bt.CaininC
and (::'.':haii::c t'.• l c,° ;u L �-ivl1 Cctirt. Yntl eti.n c.!7i7njnAj Court
Of 1%- rec:_nt
G:CinVlt:t_,i'.:, _ pC_ •,J:'r�__ _ i':e.i:, d :ti'1S O.i COY:�O:a`'.C.n ..�_: ,T'iiDLal
With ..1 'hJ.'?C' ti:)L:> v ,.j0 ea- the u
t1'l.J by the
SA1O �ud,fr. w} :U Tti• l._.:.'G t. �i - 1lf :G:I _t_. C s
-e ,,�1. way
m9Ue by theC' .-:'CE'n5N dTtCil"r'.E3'✓ O'_fer?G 6 '17,000 Settle-
ment for tht,so_.ne j ldr.'. a,.i. .- `, t, f
r% _ dine.. _ offer
Pit- FiC: .l'_ Uns e
_ricj ent. , .. .� ,t', .r`..-�• "S d..-:G Wc': _ Shor-
ed 1.1 Jv•.. at d Llitle
weer, F)I:.1je te'? "Ief i,--it '',f ii'Jdi ' a: tax dol:._r.;>. F_m7ploy"•_' v.fendd ants of
th<' i,arr: cc,ri . i at ion w,,rf.• e r: i, oco G"1, „C 1 3 Con iir _ JS that t_-4ey
1'(';'. i.1n ! r,mr, working at t , . f')Y u <;'-'C`• _.'.ttC `..i?',C. r.- `:he tlla@ Gf
a; -rest C-Iii tn: ' Ci7^yilCt:... tt',t ti. e 1. frame
L' StY1CL10!t-�; i7T I rul; it:L C1i,1rGl 'J.. tC. h'i•Yl: ..., _ _:1Ci" C.:. roLation
1.1dgQ Octal ai',nlhllated tills p:":'V10'151_' v2 pr"OtJltlOri.
Another i 11UStr.ttlon is e.vit:e'nced by a 'll _. 1'C. _« c. ii '' drtmt 7it'a study
appeariiig in the Miami Herald on Novcr.� (=r w:'iic'r. 'nr let er to you
15 backet! U:i by lOC rlr'nt atltrn. j'ri:Jr, tt' ' `t`i - i '.U;':St . �-'`_d G\'C'r
-2-3, ()l7C man hol:r S a..C: C`17�, V '"� ld;iF• E nt L.,J .`a :t: 1 .: tmC'nt in
A r.
t c. tl .:A R 4 1980
r � �
making 1,03',
karrests to curb pros`litc.tio n. `:.c' .__ _ s, five -,u:a3es
at that +.ime, namely Deeh1, mein, td,-. ir. .. .•l:.:iE. a who
handle t.nes prOStlt:'.itlOn ca,—,ess dl(9 not t ..nd (D:,iz c f 140 Case:
ranilOmi}' 5L`:'VC)'E Cl. A sil;ail percEntagco w,:rt +y.ve:: tali L.lire. T:E:,irly one
half mi 1. l i.on c of la: s in tax money was on lrre_ ` s and another
approxir-ltc on(' ;..: f million donor:% in f; nes t 1)'+:16 have. gone to tax
OF erS. %U!;i,, I !:r• i'+011: et, :tell i t_;iB )'].; ;u� JS _,: rlc t '.ing iilf3( Cllrig
necirt llber'dlS is oping to QCt. t,,u .;;lit :,E=ntF_"':Can, iudc:(-: Dechl
says "i'C'.: I ec i z: rC'-.)ot and not it ]u',lc�o, ]list l,li';.. `ill: 1_) ., ton". in effect
he i5 no fines and legalli\'. a5` .'1CJ tie laws &vall-
db]e for niS ..SE:. Any (trade school St:1,.(-nt could +`i:f t ';t well. The
t.nat thew - iv(ll1c.,e 63ay th':_ I t_ .',' be swayed by
pub i or _ n :: (.,sure. I rr: nt. io re wJ',:i d cA t.ht_-r of you gentle-
man iI KE .,, 1 1Lt LtE nt'? Y011 ire _1 C'Ctej o1 ', _C - al S, ";) .,re those `u(1'jes.
of judges, Cori.-upt attv_u(e if !!Ou will, is con-
temi I_UOUS O.. 1. IW dbiC'liT;7 fi1h11C c,IIQ t,`,e VJtt rS who put these judges
in off :.Ce. � c—,,t.( mr't is tiara.> ri:tt(_[d t+J i r) Jtl ]tes Who laugh In the
face (,f tour p,- e<. •:,i i is Hers City anc? Cou;:ty-wi6e, r ver;' Serlo']s n_ oblem
at t hip ti mc. iV.1 may ,-s well off- fall ji: visc: t(_-. Xiami Police Depart-
me-n_ :;:_ tc IT,dK_ ar:; .:urther c, rt:,t3t_s. ThIs CCOrrussicn may not be able to
,11drCfi tii+= L:ru: ,,Atutln ;%LCt' DII'm athis t1.:ilE , tnC V tiYS :l,y haVe t0 o
handle tr.. 1:u.Lls L you Can
d::ti:,C _C::-. t: :.C<.i,W; strong
vi.�i: _� 1�..:.•r�hil o. wh "i ycu :ire c: :t'r.iC L iS Saying? we nave
hao. envu :1, list's nit ,:oi:tinue this ;rt `r,ir_'. _ ... rani:,:.:n°r. reputation in
Dade ..J'..atj , sc, c.. .✓.:1oW11 11.. L .'„l.2ial la. L....SC n ::i criminal intent
from The Vian,i i)olicv De =.,. -cf.' .I. L' Y Orm-
inQ t:-.eir ; _)i) Wt'. i i E' Of the court' s lc:. icncy I)a-L :_ ,,L US &I Odr job
in i: f_, ;is support of t}ei.r effort.,. The fvi.,owing rei`o1,Trcndations
ara ;.roi^ cuSli;l'.LCL"c(J ii: this NorT.heast pub-Cour.c'.l: ;1, ':'hut you pursue
these corvj_c-�_iun , ,. re:ijy i?,;L.aC7llS:lac: In oui court syStC:m witnin the per-
amiaturs (il the =?l r l nul.` ,,nce Statutes Ana any other ut. t(5Cail:'u`_' Ol:
County or Clty orclin:incc ai,pllcahle. We request that yc,',. nirc attorney
C ..iZ 3C. LI:i_ a ;., 1,1W to cuVC'lt+� a'.:1nsL 1),S1rieSses.
,.he_ `uli i attornE do so with Consu3 L:', iG:i Fi: :loj)er-
atiO:i Of r:":C'i ;i .a..e ULIiCer_S' I hE: Y,i,im:. rollCa. DEY3r+mcalt'S e Cidl
Inv _ `.. L,,' i'. ic,n, S _ . Lust: t:o i-We saiG cttorncy rL:-wrlte and improve exist-
ing l :`i; 'ir:. I:."s P'lth ConsultFition and (_cc,,+t_'ration E`T these yame officers; the
attorre'.• Write a law witti s,lbstantial tine applicable to
owners Jt.::: ...,.:'.. 1:.: 1 }' rent 'houses, apart.ments and r, cte 1 •%^LtE:i rooms for
tn2s to act on these recom-
i's:1Qa'.i lrl mdnd that LrUYi:o<rap:1!.' iS rl:aCiSinG child-
rt?n o:. the )':IT,....:cL}', many fd, e2, c';nu rupC'-Llllrdurs may .li9ve ". cen Ca'.ised by
t} 13 SLl.m•.U: c1a. .:);. :C mind 4;fii.Gfi 1S carri.t3d beyond of these
.1
]llS12:E SSE.:. rn,( cj,aphi.c Iir,-ratur-_; and ol,5_en.e movies may not be the
CrimE as some mic.:it perCE:;ve it, 1ie1Lher is prostIz,,,tion. My
endOT'S" ;+ f: t.ni.S, I'm Sorry i did not gE_t It from. '.he G-teater Ytlami
Chal l>--r C.. . ...;:'1"t::mot, I dial not haVE time, U'o 1,vu It fro:-,i the Arl:]diocese
of Miar:,., L':.' 1C'aSt Baptist Church, the iLLlt :over Com:,er_t_ Associa-
tion, t!i.: Dowi. ' Development Authority, the Defile Meade PYuperty Owners'
Asst7Ci.cti.10n, ti, -. r_ngside Property Cwner's Associaticn ar,-, this repres-
ents pee;;l.e. �.... hive had them here in this room.but I chose net to
do so.
Mayer Fore: iJooc;n+'.c::, Would you believe me that those: organizations
that you lit , r . _,)nt�d :.ay have a little more clout on this Commission
than th._ C': I1_c: i .'.her of Commerce? The Arch_:ocese and the North-
east Imp)-c,vlc::c:':t t}ln iselle Meade Island and what have you. 1 see
Grace Rc,cr,ifeilar nc•::t. _n,: 1 don' L know whether Grace wants to add any
sui'port 1_c, tiii :?
Mz- . Woocan .cr : 1 c'o::' t knc;o: the l.aas , if she wishes to, I'll defer to her.
Mayor Ferret t.� i ; . 'ht , Crace.
Mr. Woodnick: One L,,:^.C' I do want to ask before she comes up is that we
d,t get !:i_,Ine action un ., 1, .r^,o<.;rapilic situation. It can be done in Civil
Court, it 1S riot iidvir!Q .•.'t ciffEJct In Criminal Court. It's been checked,
it can be ,lone, we reed yuui 1:'elp.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Woodnick, let me ask you a question, sir, because I
read your letter with interest. Very obviously you are not aware, sir,
of past action of this Commission. This Commission, as I recall your
Olk
letter, (1) engaged Mr. id Cir;iart, ci_ c:-._-11u (-.I;t
for whatever reason but we dicl, wc: r-,*,ji. i-,. ion ui_2 meat
through its nm.in tzd: ion with the 'ir-41 e I. ssion. This
commission: Wei,'. On oi. 15 (4.7,y an,l a
ccrtain fine, secori,i conviction 30 6ays ani the thin' anl ever after that
45 days. Now, L114t!'t, tilt: point I t6 t 1,,ick tc w-.ch tl-,c Cit.}, Attar-
w,.rL yu-i to kiiow, sir, L�,at r
Com-
M1 5!i i 0 vis n,.)L 1.r-1, i_!,e T.,
in fact , I th:_:ik bt.,eri ri y I, , out in the fJft_'._'17C ;-it Li: that, wu
c a n b,,; t w c. in,. v cJ 6 s Ly r. i Q Q- in t"f -. e s o,., i t 1: -m Li j :) r
cities acl)SE- the Ii1Led aCEb, L:-..:At- no su�)nl.lr tic) yo-Ll c(.nvirtion
onc� ut tneSe piDrno shop,_ than th(.�y Lrdisfer rt2w corpc�ration
in the -.1L411f- Aril. you've r,-,ally Lxce-pz
the of a lot of funds. The un-,y thiing I wanted to say to /,.)U,
sir, was, t!"iS *.uff that .,,ou incurporate in y,)-,ir lut._,•r i6 not new. T I 115
is st;iff cha-_ C(D,=,iss,,.un has tried. 'fl,:Ls is th_ithe )r: ,i - - U Cc s S
sion 1.a:7 -_-_)ne i:_o ai:tion wi_h. You orC' a',:are or)vicubI'v from , your letter,
of the :Stuay wi'ls (:Crl(2 011 s_`t.uation and 1.
think, t-at within itscli �-hould thi-, is a situation whic"r,
,A,,s originally _n` tic�z)tcc by this NOW, 1 W_-�nte,4 to
(Jet to, X":. q(_1L7n0
-'hI,-,(- Chet t'nis
Marl(. L, tL�ry
c,,,. as
a.-. e z: �_ is f U L..1 . it Y . A.t I nY 1,; r "'."L k, Law
_'nt -nLlt wC' tbaL :,an IaLGry nt-ntecic- e:urlviction that that
Was whctz_ -,he i.ulc -x�As a,-,J that rtally ::i ju,ge Girl not ho.ve trc, latitude
ILO 60 ILe do more but less. Now dia wu spin our wheels
on that leg--slation?
Mr. Woodnick: 'Ai. PiLu=er, you spinned your wheels.
Mr. 1-,Iunner: Sir, y,-)Li arc.- nat the City Attorney, I would appreciate an
answer from City Attorney.
Mr. Alvarez, C s s -, r-.-, e r , I met. two month:; ago with the Ch,4f,f
c,-itor for of the S-atc At--orney's Officl: and we cme
to some -s tri t,-ieir misgivin(;_-, recarl`.incj some arguziunts made
.tQains, t1he or.n,*unc:,2 as its coziE-itution.lity. Tht:n we further agreed
.o -Are f_;ursu,:,7,t tv ---,Late Statute a4thority and also the State Constitution
a Municipal tnat will devote all of his time to enforce vio-
latior-, o:: tn, City Code. We are right now in that pzocesn, we are a
litt',(: "t!u 1)1 red6c.l5 )-- func_., ctherH.;_.-t_ -we are proceeding and no,
you not, Liir, Waste Your
Mr. Plummer: tr4e qczestdon 11 really want an answer to, what happened
to the minimum St:!.-iL,.!;jce the t thiz, Commission impose-,3, upon the first, sec-
ond, third co:-,viction? Why is that not being put into play?
Mr. Alvare_: 1%t•!]L, Coriunissioner it is within the. discretion of the judge to
depart from th-, tn. ordinance called for a schedule.....
Mr. Plxxner: C3rrz-cz.
Mr. Aivare: Anu i� a matter that is a deal between the prosecuting
attorney an,l d.-d defense attorney.
Mr. P1,_;-_,rer: -r the:, o;at we passed here is of no value be-
cause they - ac) hey %i,-int, is that correct?
Mr. Alvarez: 140, that they can do what they want but
th,--re 33 .--i of V-JAe and it just needs some more time
I believe and it K line.
' Ust 11
Mr. Woodnic_k; Mr. fir,.;s!,, sir?
Mr. I-lummer: sir. I didn't like the answer but ---
Mr. Woudnic-,: WCII., I u,.ci: c-'.Lh-_i _nc, it is not work,;-1CJ that way
regardless of what t:"L :,11L. rF_z_:, wr1r.-ther it is a 15 day manda-
tory j&i", or n,)�� --he Ina.. 34.s,-;retiori and that's why
they're w i - .lJ.T,_j t :,e "We W:_,_- 11,t, �4CQ.Pt essure fiom the
public or the 1-ollice Dupartment." T!-.-ey are i;,-..,rune, they have complete
discretion tL,- are dnytning th-.,y w,*.ir-.-_ to do, -, co-, t care what t I nis Commis-
sion does. You're s-,:,oakinq cf s go tack to porncqz-aphy.
I'm asking .Oi a attcrne- to lo L i-ah
w1r*r; an iniunctlo:, to c: lc_�c b L's Sc_,
0 -, 4
OU
the pros. i : _ Ion;, tr.c.t. wi: .
fit to
� VCi:.,_ t..�_Sc' 3uO'?t'_S Uut v° v: ,:' �_ _ Ii
back on the street. Let's yu haUk to sp(,cI_:c _ '!;:..t:'•'..,:,�,:�OnS, that's
all I have in my letter is pornoc7raphy, t_ha;'s your lrc:-:spores and your
theaters and it can be done. This recommendation has been made....
Mayor Ferre: I would like to propose that somebody here make a motion
that Mr. Woodnick's rec:ormendation be turned over to the City Manager and
the City Attorney -o by scheduled at the iast meeting in May for further
discussion and after we qet a report as to the practicality of it. What
you're about is that we proceed on Civil Action rather than Crim-
inal Actiun.
Mr. Wocdnick: ^_'hl_ Criminal is not working, if you make more convictions
it's just mort. money down the drain.
Mayor Ferre. i +: me tell you, Mr. Woodnick, I was the author, I not being
a 1_awyei wr.otf-, t.ae law back in the late 60's about this stepped up -fines
and stel:.pe: up zi3. sentences for the first offender, second offender,
third of -'enter ai;o what have you on prostitution. 1 don't think those
laws }_Iv, eve`been enforced. See? So I think there is -o C3uEStion that
those juj: 3r�s ar(:, for the mn,t 1*, art they let thOSL prOST itllte5 in and Out
and they cG'.ild cE,r c less. T'.ni.tt avenue has not wC%rke,4. Now '.'tl (,:' ,. and
her aT Q up we _ 1 E:U t.c, hire this fellow Carnart t0 � C � S',r,e ..c:w ''.pings
that are i)einy done .in Vir; inin and otherwise to if ,.t2 can institute
some new is 'd3 ;irt,cr-(i'.irP_s but we have.-, t mar3c- .,/ neaaway on that. And
Carn.irt, ycu know we Gave him a :f)_-,ce and we wrote 'him, Ale couldn't do It
and this It was lar:i , have time?, we gave .:ll o%e :rr-,re _hcin-e
and we wastt:c S.}'. .. _ that. Now i thin}. it iL, ,._m.c for the Manager
and that .-_.,..- ,-.. _ i J11Ce De,7,,.rtment, for the C_, tv Attor;ley's Gfficu and
the Law to 3ointly come back with a sr.::ci is and more dynamic
and effective approach to this very complicated problem.
Mr. Woodnick: May 1 speak on your statements when you're through, please?
Mayor FE!rre: Yes, sure, but we have tc move along, there are a lot of
peopl(_ waiting like you've been waitin .
Mr. Wuod::ick: Yes, but I've been waiting over two weeks. I've talked to
Ed Carha-t last November. I asked him for a copy of the new porno ordin-
ance ::ar- he w;7s writing for this Commission. He told me it was completed
but he (.r)uld not give me a copy until he presented it to you people. Since
then he has....
Mayor Ferre: I thought he was not hired anymore.
Mr. Woodnick: I'm speaking of November of last year. This ordinance was
never wrl'_tt-11, I've checked with the Assistant City Attorney, he knows
nothing c)-- It, nothing has been done ._,a.nce th.-it time. I'm offering this
Commission a ._ : means under Civil Law to pursue this matter that really
is import.un-� icr t:.- people of this City.
Mayor Ferre: 1 (..ith you, I subscribe' to it and I think if we have a motion to that
effect ar.d let u: _ stration coma: back along with the Law Department
with spec .fie rec.c,';e::caticns and invite you back and we'll see if take
another step.
Mr. Woorinicl.- I' , ' In N-,rth Carolina the last two weeks of May.
Mayor F erg e : I d :: rt' r: think we'll be ready....
Mr. Woodnick: I (ion't tAnk you reed me, I think you have enough informa-
tion now, if .you waft to proceed you certainly don't need me, it's up to
this Commis:ioc.
Mr. Carol.lo: Mr. M4y,:., :('c be will,ng to make that motion. I'd just like
to add that I hxV6 ridden in the northeast area and the downtown
area at. the r.a.;ueI�t of _ <)f r_he :!itizens that live there and what I have
found just completely si:,7c-..d me. The prostitution, the drug pushing on
the streets, it's just as ba3 it no:- worse as has ever happened there. We
seriuus:y have to do scmethg -•. i;.:,_.kly or, t:iat.
Mr. Wo;,dnick: I'm offering this Commission a goal that you can attain,
overall drug problems, you can attain, this you can act on now. Thank you
very much.
rt
lJ
Mayor Ferro: hr a ( r uc. wci.-.t ,.o .s
Mrs. Grace' Rockure".Iar: icS, l l+'ll,.,.i1 i ._ ,' ,aCC _RL_^.kafe1lar.
I live at 814 N.E. 71 Street. i'.'e.,ic_. ,_ ,r.l� `�:.d:'.l I:lj;rove-
ment Association. 've nuvrr met :t,ti r. ' _.,.1L'.ti, ii_:�, n w�r'tie wit., .ls
I
group, 1. nevtjr reccivv any of their .gut i would like to say this
on the beh&'l . G: tn%s :oml!1ission. T(11L, C..,;r 1.....;10 Il_ S ne: ,er tlll:lC C'il' ,jrCLlp
d;_'wn ar,;i we' ... r L 1 1ow:. here often. e'✓�lythl: :; W12
passed Ina yo,: auvu 'Ao koi wltn us. We h,�V(3 aIi uutSt_-ini::ng Poii,::e :epact-
meat, the (in l}' Chi^. j is It 1sn' L lurge en:;'l:C.'... r wG' .n. c.: L'iil_ pO.]. i,-o o flCers
and we nE.d 7,crc ,)ic:K up. But Ch1t, Hj,_r,n:. an,i I ha'✓f lLE.:. Ol'r:l::cj (gin this
for some time. I ,]cn' t know w;.• t:,er. any of you kno':; Ju,' fit.
or not, h(: wo fGrmur M,iy(-.,r 'Jf :,1iQ7n1 5:1:):Is3. 1 upo)Ct, I Way invltca to :il:,eak
up there ti.re 31' f,-rent tlr.&s bi3:ore `.ilt. Kiwanis, the kO:.ury Club and the
Elks Club on I?''nJLltutlOi. an, -I porncgr,ii)hy an:: he was in t%e al.]lc::;i=. tie
was ] :j)G1!.', _., j'.IC:i L I think in Nover-lur. Ee C'u:itiactea me, he had mt:t up
to his offi_ . ;m: with :;e 'Jicd-:lavci _ hvr t (
North Mli,.:in. I•C )'. t^ ,/1S '10:110 07,.. I,:(, C.1b_. t:_1 S vll Orly r
he is a no -nor, :;si ju-'ge. N,)w his -,ul is i _ _..on rims f •Gr;; ;:ors`, Bteach,
North :,,lurGl ,in._i C :'...:, to 1`.f. L. C C _ u:.iG thL ..ui� Up 3U
knows cur Or l`13:1= 5, he '':no'ws what `..:hc! dr:, .:e j U ., L4.c gn
that they ca:^'t iji:t U'.It ana when tnE:y vack ne `, us t '. :,,a? _-_::`1
is 160 Qay 5nd, $7:;;1 fine. Unizel- the C:rG nc. .. e tldt a
71�.. j.sew a:: .
! Ca I _ t'd .illi' e C�:Ir::crt anC nL3i ecd him 1: 7 :,avc: juriscltion
Over thv: 8 tl a ...L:1CVar," and I tali:ei t0 _.1 no and Jui1Qe Nesbitt.
Tiley tsic me tnc•, would ciS,aiS:, It ,,nG Ci, 1':_ rii:-k. T"icy , a_:i chi' mtback
and they tolc rle that they wou ... .-.; : k w.L t.7i l-
i f i right with '_i:.m It Wit, them. NC.11, 1 1.rT,._ :': i .�0t ,;:old
of Chief Harr-.s bi ...'.c I wanted him to know what til'_ (:G:1V�.rSdt.iU;1 4?dS , C)1r,Q
to LU aacl `.. !:..el halms th-Dacj: '.. It was wonderfu- untl i ::C tarteU 10::)K 1nQ
at his iiabialtV i.,:,,Urance L:i Ln(-- Curs tt,cat ta,' (>liC,� „=:ictr irivc. ;•lost
of the L.)" ic'e E)i:: L.:ers wc,,c -ny th , n.-rhCaSt d r e a I OIDu it 1'u Zuut-ir: h :lal and V
h:, also t.ol"' 1;u thuy have to F;ay 27 cents a m:le out :if fidll" Ch: exocnsL' account,
when they drive tnuir own cars, this is not reimbursed to them by the Depart-
ment and a che(-K in the iiabiiity on their insurance, c.o`r
llahillt' n';1SI t u:;j '300C.. SC,-y"ha.' 'wE'_-C t1;y1nq -,.G ,L,, Chief
Harms tllal: fnI1 ' P.1')JE' T::a` court trGm N.L. 172n•1 SL_ t uL OF:ri to 7_'L11 Street
an_-�1.'.•.i7'3 where they have- thii; GA�' b', ding, ti. :oLr.t}'
alrecl,dy 11 .-3 9 ,ji"C�' v- l.ii c'.+ in t:-,at ail li :riw Jud, Itl.;is
is all ri(,ht, It _,an let L-__ Ili.c.,,:lr,y Lt,rouC-h. 'pow if he :uil cet tne
flnancl:tc t;:rough on that, and I was sujiposed to talk t0 him this afternoon
bLt WC!TiLel' t.0 ('Glne COW,", here b?C3USe. G` ":Y. H�1Gdn1Cri'S t3tk hur, Loday,
:r.d if he Ccirl qf�L ' n;,`_ Lhi cues. tat.:: we nave a court 1.g:it thori- iil t'.;E area
where they ca:, toiC! ttlE?fi 11;. iitL t!'(--M Out, JUr 0_iC0 Officers GO:,'t nave.
t0 dT' '✓E L.., tr, rllt yUU': _ aLSOlUrt:ly COr. 1;, Suj'lac3 t_; ut yC:U passed
a goon Strom, Ord' trance but while We have a ::urrber Of 9OG3
bench we al.-o have ::i nui-lber that we reel should no= be si`tin, on the tench.
Tnut rie,:omes, a revciving door. The pollee '::as t.- (J:.-) '. tit, e'✓c:rybody that
works, yuu lC here, when you (jG h,):'.e cit I:i(;:1t `f'.."_ '_.,>ke to ffa i-1Kt:
yOL'Ve. oon� dav'S wol-!:, you've dC_ �.^,.'.:115R' Or1E't n'y. :.hk. police
01riCE:r.S :iiYlthat feeling. They have: t0 (:C hCk t::f? .7eX' ::ay and go
right !Da,:K ;.n(: •.ir._.. _ the aa111e girls over and over ."ir,� OVC?1. SO whnt we're-'
trying tC, i(., w.'-.h - 1c Carhart is to get hlrr. to ak 'L:1( gc, �U y�5 ::dt are
letting t It?tee (elf jl`at }her;, In iamlll' services Gr traffic or--omcthing
to cooperate �,i.th us, y(?t .hem off the bench, get jucaes in there that will
irrnose the :,'.I. %!.-: I ust wart to say I do appreciate everything that the
Commiss'ir..,n has ;rk .
Mayor Fern(_,: A:i:', L^._t::k you, Glace.
Mrs. kock.ifel l`L : Anci one r,or e thing, you instructed the Legal Department
to yet t:ic (1:J l']iL1T') iaw r V.:r,-.4nia that's been upheld by the Supreme
Crt, we h,iv,: ;lot_ . :•cc-ivr:: i;a: ,yet.
K.lv�. Ft.?pre: AR: been ovL: a year. Yr. Alvarez, I want you to make
a spC'cial note a-,,? t w"..7..:1 like for you, sir, on Monday to call me and tell
me what y:,u've done t,. ,-•o: row or, this matter.
Mrs. Rockafe l lar: And o. ,• o; -r • slitter, the 90-day non -conforming use that
the State of California has i.;asse'd a13 a0rrcved, we'd like to have that too.
Mayor Ferre: All right, tharik you very much, Mrs. Rockafellar.
'3
AFIR G `t 19080
rt
Mayor Ferre: Call the roll.
The following motion was intro by Commissioner Carollo, who
moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 80-297
A MOTION ACCEPTING IN IPF.IN:C IIILY, TRF BASIC RECOMNIFNDATIONS
WADE BY JOSEPH E. WDODI-TcK. , Cfi� I F..'•'Ai'; OF THE Nv . 'E .
AF.EA FUB-COUNCIL I'Ok PR ,VENTION
PP.OGkAM AND SAID _L-D 'S TO THE CITY
ATTORNEY AN-, TIIF: CI^",' AtiA";i•: SPI C=PICA',LY .%D!:' FSSING
=UTI'RE PROSF.CUTION< OF AND 11-?'O,TITL'TION
PF.OI;L--MS l':'I)FF. CI'•III. S'iAi',,.:, .E AS
A1j1 A:4CE" , A -D - .`i ^1--ER DI EC `: I:;., CITE' MA'•:AGER
At;D THE C'�':Y AT':rCR,'i.Y TO !--EPCF, iY-) 'i".iF.. CITY Coy"iISSION
AT THE %1LF-ING SChLD'jLlrD FOR YAY 22, 1980
Upor. bein0 sCcondeC. by Cc,* mi11 sic nt_-r Plummer, the _ :t4ior, ..as
passed and adopted by the `ol:owir:g vote:
AYES: Commissione:- roe Carol
Conumissicr,c_ .' . FiunriF:r,
yor. F,rmando Lecasa
-'�::•.r;is_.-over (Rev.) Theodore R. Cibso:':
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None
ir
Mayor 17,_rrc. Yes, sir, Erdt*').
Mr. Edl,.ar a . ':,it... th'Ank you for allowing, me to
come here and answer=r.c my letters. 1'n Fdward Smith, 700 wean Lane
Dr :ve, Key biscaynr - . *,',y purpose for being here is to talk to you
COT:: i, :leis about. a mnratG2'lum C'n an`,' new C)r aC7ltlo: al facilities
served ,:)v is F?ckenbu.;;',er CauseWdy,-1intil :'tl time Fi:: t-nc' ,raf`iC
problems, c been alleviated. Tra iic on t',,e causeway is in the
re(Tular i)a:�iS, and I'm surf: you Folks ar: lust. as Well
aware ill L.' ,-�bl(_ms as we who live on tnC' Causeway, and also, and
morn 1.1'!Z`_rt: _ or.c5 ,.:,C Sl'LfCr t-e m,)st: 4:: :, the tr, fic from
the tr_.f is on Ric?:en'backer --'auE,ew::y arc z,rimarily your
cor.sc.- rt Iw,_..• .._c: t? _ facil.i:=ies on Yr. T_iscay::e and `.'ir,;.na Key.
The' t-tr,.,: no_".'._ , IrE•'' , t' t"1v, gcttinq ilomu. Two weeks a40, one
Of ,.i.c i.::', ^.:" ., (ill tG island WaS 115Ci= to (`et. o''f the:
is -,and with m, .).ice. The cars were -!ust too Fru.trated to try to
get into e, -.:.di. , line off,, and they just took over one of
the, lands c,'.)mi. -, .into ube and used it getting off. They also
used...
Mayor I err,.: Yv, 'r- tc.Ikin-r ai)out the weekends.
Mr. Smith. Can .'. h( w.tt-kends , yes. They also used the grass in the
center of the ;c.as trey used the dirt on the side. A week ago,
on a Sazurday, ; r :dc►,t.. iwing on the Fast si :e of Crandon
Boulevar in t_t"•' .'aF •...':1E, nad to park cars on tht2 West side and walk
home. You couldn't ---s C—,don Boulevard by car. These are old,
old prol it-:i— I'vc_iviry in FiDrida " _.:t. a. s, anal living
on Key Biscayne for fourteen. And the problem, when I came to Key
Biscayne was severe. However, it is deteriorating, and this year, deteriorating
j^ , r r) i
t V _ "/
Mr. Smith (continued): more rz:pidly than. before, for some good
reasons, we think, One, is the cost of gasoline. Due to the price
of gasoline, those going to recreational area:. are travelling shorter
distance ic' !Coy Biscayne area is in dose, less �i-ioolln ' to qct
there. Another reason, is the fact that: we now have boats berthed
North of the bridge. And those boats at the marina that was recently
starL,.a, near the us-, PEi.ic,;.n .;C•Staurant"., wl-icr, trey go oft, they
go through trlE bridgr_ and the br.idcye opens.
Mayor Ferro: mr. Smith, how much longer do you think your presentation
will take?
Mr. Smith: Well I can do it in five .minutes.
Mayor Ferro: Five more minutes, you mean.
Mr. Smith: I'll take three more minutes. I was...
Mayor Ferre : Okay, that's fine. Go ahead. Go right a;,e"L-.1 , please.
Mr. Smith: Waiting, and I'm sure no one wantz to wait.
Mayor Ferre: I understanc'.
Mr. Smit'i: !,u6t Say, that waiting reminded me of being in the
car in thweekend trying to get off the island. Now, to solve the
problem of the causeway, though it ... Rickc:r.'. -:::per Causeway is not
your responsibility, it is a Dade Ccunty maintLnance responsibility,
however, the gate ^,ovorr.rlent has a facility in the ,area, ;c'., have
marry faciliti-:.s i:-, the area, and the Count; aoe_ . For anv aod-:ti,-)nal
facilities to be put or. tire islanc:, an I :iiOld you io:.r. ,avi- -nnea
somE:. i r-d,: In thu. ni_w._;Tia--,e ::. - fans •oi, -.rg-Ln.iLi .__ , a "ti:.:,.;r•�' ild
and other thlll'TS. I've read t.^,l'= t.'I, :1ar-na �.; tU ,e Qoub: , ct- ma -be
doubled'. in size. This will cze-at':'. -yore , ro= _ l' on a r^3^. tha' c :.'.!lot
tak, anymore tr•_lf:.Lz. So Wiidt .:u ..a`Je a .Kt , ..a i t7,t P.li:Kr:71;,ac'ker
Cdusl'w'.' ' TCd`.f1.c CU7iT.l--tee 15 --:n orcanlLat-U.'] .;,t7: on-y one
and whr•r. :ha'_ pur;�os e is Sowed, t :c Or_ a711 atiUil w: 11 a-, appear, is to
solve thest, pr;)L%lems. Now .:ou as C1'::y Co:S^l.s::ion°ors, your con,tirucits,
who arc the prime users ;-f these facilitle: , and th } rl ,: suffErerS
spending their (:asoline money, their cars 3ettin; overheated, can declare
a moratorium, or at !cast consi_:E:r a m:-ratorii:n on any r.-_w or additional
facilities that will bring cars out.
Mr. L:acasa: :;r. Smith.
Mr. Smith: Y,2 s, sir.
Mr. Laca a: Y,— .pre suggesting, actually, as a possible solution of the
traffic prohlEs. at the Rickenbacker Causeway that we limit the use
of potential -tea:, f.;r the creation of recreational facilitic-S for
people that 1:ve '_n the City o` Yiami, and that do not have: any other
place to ,O (`CE3::SE 7;:✓1Cri.?,ly, Rickonb:icker C:i. saway is so much
used 1),:ca--Za lt' natur.il B1r;cavno area, Cape
Floritc,, -. nu ort.l7, Cat _'e 1'":Oi !e that i_vu in me ..it)'
Four years . _ _', m�i,er u:::�t the Dade County Comoni s ion allocates,
in prin-'iPle, r.ia".;•_Z'il ,i.:'.1i0,^, ill,! 1 rS for t}lc _ urpo-E_ t widening
the first br,-:iqu down to the tall gate.
Which U.^.0 C:':b' C: y, wou._. Cl_'✓E a.! LCviEitu_. `.flit of t.,c trafTlc
on the_ ;C,tt'en.-ck rreclsely !.hare. And
actually, t:, ;i:.,: l ! hav(• z1s0 So1JE: ; the L r_.:) em for tht: City of
Miami .M.tCdu:ri. the: .'ocilitieS OI ,he C,Ly of lM: aml go more or less,
ger)grapi,ically ;:enf,i:i ;, up to that particular I:,oint.
trs. Smith: On to a ! .. _' 1.: bit ot. t!-:e Causeway.
Mr.. Lacasa: A little bi.; terw,:.rdls. ?'ow, today we are entertaining
d moratoritm. At th:zit time, i a,as, hLZ:aUz;e '. was them, 1 was rresent
at that particular day, at the relucc;L cr the Dade County Manager,
Ray Goode. Today, while we are entertaining the moratorium, the
people of Key Biscayne, led by the Key Liscayne Chamber of Commerce, opposed
i
Mr. Lacasa (continued): opposed....
Mr. Smith: Sir, ma^r I say something, The Chamber of Commerce was for
that bridge, it was the Tax Payers Association who was against it.
Mr. Lacasa; Okay,
Mr. Smith The Charrl)er of Commerce support.,.
Mr. Laca_, The Tax Payers Assrciat.ion opposed; in mass, the use of
those: r ,I that, nad bt:en a3loc,atr3(1 for that purpose, and therefore,
the Count,, decided not to ao allicad with a project: tFat. by now,
would have biCn a 1ealit•;', sin(3 that: y now, we wouldn't have had the
problem. _ art a m- mher v-f on- of the club,: in iCev Biscayne, a::d I Ro
there :.girlofr.c.n a ,d I suffer Lne same kin-7 of tr,�trflc Prcbloms that
you do. I !,ave s;Dery over an hour, som(_t,ineS , on `Ile Ft1C.;eI t,'u=?:EY
Causeway. k,-id L wish we '_ould GCS 3_I.'.,•�hlny a}�Ol it. ti1.S.. �'.
could do SF GI: `i^? about i.t. M 14( ior. wc,_} 't, S, We do
have a prob't.(?e, fut I would rather see it soly ter. u positive manner,
i:l positive wat , i.Lke widening C,',I<,ewav, rather than
limi tinq the C:l' ./ of t0 provi�c :,tr�rc- r�_,Creational
facilities and a„er.i _. its citizens.
h1r. Sirdth: there are several taings you said which I
did I:ot say, u,nd cio not- piropoZ.t_'. One, we d0 no-, piopose that a
moratoriu-, a s ol'_It'.i in. it•i_> c:i)l ' tG he ;-'.. things O'Latus q,uo until
a solution can be reaC:huci. We i(?i_ i a sOiutior. can !)o reac'ned with a
high brldc,c, it can b,, reachr!, but very aif- icult do, _,y not
allowing t-,c brici(Je to h.- on a S.3turday and Sund. y, '1.1linq the
high pew,}: houro. But no, th(_! -rinratoriam is cniy a holai.i.Q
To acid new fuCl.li l.eS, to ai�G mrr, vehiclen Uver that causeway, which
is difficult now to Corr.;: hack, w,i<•ru are those cars going to go?
Xr, PI,,A .mcr: ;•'.r. Smith, ,2yc-,Ise me. ,"y probler. i.; _,ilnnle. You know,
the !:!'._y th'.nq that 1 :• now .f tilat the City of Miar::i 1--ar, even
sorties ems, which was the County w<.s G velodrom, Okay? The
County ingi-har,r.l✓ defeate:i thc.t. Yes, we're talking about a
camt)grrnarld bL t_ we're talking that's all, that's the only place
we're at. wait a minute, lister. to me. You know, you're at the
wrong Commission, sir.
Mr. Smith: I am also at Dade County. We have been working with
Dade ::.:ntv.
Mr. Plur.mur: .gee, the problem is this Commission did nct pass the
trerer,d,)uF7 <:I : . rit of highrisc!s that you have experienec.,i ever there-
in t':e l-,;t fourtren years, since you've been there. This Commission
did not 011:c:l .; r.Iicr golf course, this Commission did not open the
State P,�r�,, t:h_ C,xm,;ission didn't do any of that, sir. Now, to come
here, ?', r to ask this Cor;u-,fission to -nut a moratorium
on thc. or.., c'.(an ircnt pzc::,..rty that we own. I think it's --ally
unfair. i ,:I i. %:o.
Mr. smith: [JE•i7 we are: alto asking Jade: County, we, are also
asking -ho 'if vOu :_,:Cl a roadbed that c-nnot handle mote
traffic, nov1 car' CiL: add mo.':, fc, i} itles tG ?ut more- cars on it, unless
YOU (ire ..;,;ii Lt I:? -i:, Il,.) a:,`.' :•Jay bi.aminc` t,i.s Commission for
anythir.a , c .::u. I'm trying to 113ame. an;•body for anything.
I'm t"ryi51^ t.C, C.,.: "•I'1'i.l.i.nC th`.t I ti",:r.. can lead to a program that
will solvo ti•.• r'- z r1F the ?l::'.t'!W iV. To d0 thi.t, we must have
your Cunmii scion' : , i :'i, wi. m,- :-t have ot,,Ie County Commission's aid, and
we must have the verr:•.,_n'.'s ai.d.
Ms. La(,asa: wi:l , r- y(, that agreeing, as I do agree with
you, that `o:C u0 r_ ve a t= ,.., On _.'i c,L 6cwAV, that t1 .L8
Commission wi3l ask the County 1-e.7-oor.:;ider the widening of the
PickeiibackQr Causeway, and any other viable ali.er;tative that could
alleviate the traffic. But in c_ posit.ve manner. In a way that we
could... in away that instead of curtailing the possibilities )` the City
40 QDQ441980
1 ,
S
Mr. Lacasa (continued): to provide recreational facilities in, like
Commissioner Plummer said, the very few areas that we still have
available on the waterfront, that we can 'rive_ cur citizens the
amenities they nt::ed, and at the same time that we could alleviate. So
that will be a po"itive solution to what is a crisis, and there is
no question chat there is a crisis.
Mr. Smith: I Nave...
Mr. Carollo: May if we...
Mr. Lacasa. It's worsening by the day.
Mr. Carollo: If we could get a legal opinion...
,vx. Smith: If you're going to add more berths for boats there, we're
going to have another bir' problem because It isn't just- that �_ cge,
Commissioner, that was being ae:velopea four .,e::rs ag,: -n"t ;o:?ii have
solved the prci. iem because that was not the i,_ ,r. is:ge. It's the
bridge op)! n'nys that is tale ma`oZ' _'roble:nonIt cau.Se'way. The bridge
opens, and the cars backup, ont Jver-eater, one runs into anothrr,
and we have a problem. Sc, -.-lat I came ,ere for, that I thine it's
a problem for t,,c 1= • '..:.ri' community. It's not Strict. 1 a Da,,,c Coufity
problem folks have the right to do what you want to on
your property. Okay?
Mayor Ferrc: All right, we have a question from Mr. Carollo.
Air. Carollc. N_r. City Attorney.... thank you, Mr. Mayor, I would like
to maybe bring this matt-ar to a close by getting a legal opinion
from you b( cauU e Z think mere some grave questions asked, whet�.er
what this gentle -tan is presenrina is legal. and constitutional. i
doubt it very much. Can we get a legal opinion from you on that?
Mayor Ferre: Wait a minute, Joe. I'll tell you, I don't know how
everybody else feels, bur. I don't t:Iink _:ou �1tec to _-),lt the City
Attorney to that much expense. Are you for going this?
Mr. Carollo: Heck, no. I agree with what Plummer said completely.
Mayor Ferre: I'm not for doing it, and Plummer is not for doing it,
that's three. Are you for doing this? That's four. Are you for
doing this?
Mr. Lacasa: rx)ing what?
Mayor Ferre: For placing a moratorium ...
tor. Lacasa: of cc•urs-- not. What I am suggesting...
Mayor Ferri: That's ':ive of us. So you don't reed any legal
opinions. L--. me just put it co you in simple terms. As far as I'm
concerned, Virginia Key is a valuable assest of this community. I
think "hat this Corum-ssion and this City have been totally negligent
in not developing that in a much more energetic and e-zective way.
And that's our po ;i Lic.n.
Plr. ;'mit�h: : woad ac;ree. But we have to take carp of the traffic
going tnr? coming to use it properly. It's your constitutents who
are spending two ho:ir,, on tliat highway trying to get home. And if you
are going to adu another third causeway, how are they going to
get home?
Mayor Ferre: I undersLind your problem.
Mr. Smith: And look how much gas they are burning.
i::r
u A p R 2'41930
i
Mayor Ferre: But the soyutio:: 'chat p`:c:)'.em is in the hands of the
County and in the hands of the State —of t ,e Dep,'_rtment of
Transportatinn.
Mr. Lacasa: But what. I don't want.. -Mr. Mr. Smith...
Mr. Smith: * 1.' 3:. ur.Na prcr,1E2IT. .
t ,ta
Mr. L T' ce
aca�:: �:r tr. c the 1:;,_> �1 �.. :.t r-rc? t we :: not
understa::Jl;lt r:); 1—%a: pr,.Dblem
needs tC a .T.C',7 .. '.:at. this
City c..ask the Gaunt; !Y'�t-ie widening
of the -,:hat t: re,,c Ur 71.':y ✓",. J ago
�_
they were 1 24d`•! _. lt±'i:'.':L'...d::e� 8.rrI t::it: TE'ii ilOWfl 3'1.a'-_ D:'_''2,USe sU1T'i%: Of
the nei (:h_bcr; Y.E y Bis :a,ne did not want. it at that pa - �_icular time.
I so move.
Mayor Ferre: Fine.
Mr. Carollo: 1 second that motion.
Mayor Ferre: .here's a moti:)�7 i=n(? a second. Further discussion.
Call the rol:..
The motion was introduced by Cortlmis:,ioner. Lacasa, who
move:: its a]op"_io!n :
MOTION Ty;)v ac`-y,qt,
A MOTI .) . REn.'i: I T.IN-S '! ri B 0AFID J^ C011,111-Y Co•,1A1
OF :.ir:vPOL F.r: DA;_r RP.CONS7J:R F.
TI,`'iW
'A'': _i:IY�ACKLi, iAJi
'I`C ALL `dIATi TY,A1 `FI_C: CDiv ,'`'..')b:
Upon, rein; ;I:dt.a 11 J COI.i^I.,iii. <2 Caiolio, the motion was passed
and adopted by -che following vor.e:
AYES: J�.c� • a. : �:..�. _c., laarasa
Trooc.c e R. Gibson
Com:.i:,si.nncr ,:,- C arc,l:to
mayor r:ao ice F:. Terre
NOES: NonE:
.
nFi:�'.N:. _,➢iUSC:On'..r J. ... PI :171'1.'.•-,. , J r.
Vv.
T3•• _. .�. , .
.� .. 1�' `!1 ._. R�. ).. . t..t.. ). ...\i)
Tl 1
2Y'. QF.1%',:CM✓3.. .�i, .�'Y tt%' Wit: 3�..4i Y��i7i+:.� 'f .:{ _ �!i1"�..•
ut�. 1 u si ^e.� s � � k�,• ��.y •,•; ihticf�lits ----�)-0Y�6�`r3ti►�� Y-���a""'>.'.iR,...�0t1tMo�Y�.�wii.sMY ...E_4"'.'scr"° -
j.]y0Y F ! E.. :... ' G tl '.0 j L1Oc_ r c. n _ , ,,Lich
`F; :r., an and
I'rr, gol'y t , can. ", �rii$sloner$
z s and c' a_ . av_ t'. -. holds
true for t_r!c,
MY'. Cdre-. . . . ' � .1::-.: _ L:. `.'.. .:...•... �1 . �.3i E"".lE'Lt. ':1'•_.''. . i` 't:.:_ iCierring
)n or. hf L Poard for five months
now. The t.Lrm is supposed to :,E,ccr.Lber ;,f th]s veear. When are
we finally going to appoint? In. December when the term e.vpires?
' 42o
:;;t
Mayor Ferre: Fine, thank you...
Mr. Carollo: I disagree with you, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Fine, okay. Is there a motion to defer? Here's Plummer.
Plummer. , we're tiilkinc; about r he Heferral of items seventeen and
eighteen, whici: is the Zor.i.nq Board alternate member and the four
members of the Waterfront. All right, is there a second?
Mr. Plummer: I move the motion.
Mayor ^er::. Is there a second?
Father Gii,son: All right.
Mayor Ferre: Father Gibson seconds. Further discussion:
All right, call the roll on the deferral of iter.s seventeen and
eighteen.
THEREUP;;N THE F0REG0ID:1'3' X3TION TO DE --ER ITEMS
NO. 17 & 16 Was introdu..ea 1. Comrissi�ner
Plummer. , and seconded by Cor-nnissiorca- ']ibson,
and was passed and ad(-)p,.ud b,- file following
vote:
AYES: Corraaissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Vice -?Savor Armando Lacasa
ABSENT: None
FOLLOWING ROLL CALL;
Mr.Gri.r: Excuse me, Yr. Mayor, do you wish to pick a meeting for when you're
deferrine that to, so we can put it properly on teh agenda?
Mayor F�.rre: 1.:e11 I would imagine the next zoning, meeting which is the
secon:? s c et i n ; in 'lay.
Mayor i'frre: well I would imagine the next zoning meeting which is the
second meeting ir. 'fay.
Mayor r::rre: C)-, t..,r. twenty, you were going to say very briefly.
Mr. Rc_ur'= } :~-, ,sc: Mr. N<, ter, members of the. Commission, there is a
current :.t,gccia. .or. ;n procc.e.,. I think it: ml�-4ht be helpf�il if I
could ta:._ twctc. give the Commission a brief overview of
wnat the prob1tr:,, i_ if t,.at's okay.
Mayor Ferre: w;•11 --hcn, I think we'd better wait on that. I don't
think it's de`,.rred yet. 7 have a feeling that it will be but I hate
to make you wait.
Mr. Carollc: I'd like to move for a deferment. Ys. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: There's a motion on item twenty for deferral. Is there
a second?
Mr. Lacasa- Second.
Mayor Ferre: Second. Further discussion?
' 43
in
Mr. Grimm: Under discussion, Mr. Mayor. what I would like to point
out to the Commission is that the City is faced with the loss of
one point four million dollars in fund: toward training of CFTA employees.
If we do not spend this money...
Mayor Ferre: Let those who want to defer that assume that responsibility.
If they want to be that reckless, let them do it.
Mr. L�-asa: I didn't know that that was the s.it;:.zticn. Nobody told us
here, before this particular time, that if we were to defer at this point,
we wo..'.d lose one point four million dollars. If I know that I'm not
going defer anything.
Mr. Plummer: ^Ir. Lacasa, what you don't understand is, that's the way
the admi:-.istration operates. Government by crisis, come to the last
minute, and if you don't do it, it's your fault.
Mr. Grimm: No, sir....
Mr. Carollo: I'd just like to point sort,_T,ang out, Mr. Grimm, if I may.
Mr. Christie was here at the last Commission meeting representing a client.
Mr. Grimm: Yes, ,ter.
Mr. Carollo: He was told that this would be brou;ht up again on May
the 7th, as I remember. Now, we're are told something different today.
Now I don't think it's fair and just that this administration stated
something to Mr. Christie., and he happened to be out of town on this
day bclieving that this would not come up until iu•, 7th, and now,
the administration cor,�,s with a new story.
Mr. Grimm: Commissioner, is yc,a'll remember the circumstances, why
items were deferred fron, the ;ast Comm.issio:: mectinq, you'll know
they weie deferred to this meeting. Commissioner, I don't know that
Mr. Christie was tole: on May 7th. He certainly wasn't told that in
my presence.
Mr. Carollo: well this is what I recollect.
Mr. Grimm: All of the items that were deferred last metting were
automatically deferred tc this meeting in deference to Father Gibson,
if you'll remember correctly. Now, I would lif::. to reiter.iate
a little bit what Commissioner Plummer said about a crisis.
Mayor Pure: wait a minute. I want ,ibson and L�:casa to hear this
becaus - 1 want them to real iZC' t; at w!:3t t:l^v'ri' pi iying around with
is throws::' away one million four huncdre'Cl tho'"sand dollars.
Mr. Grirup.. :71' 1OI7 to the ::OSsl 'lE lor:s .: the. one point four million
dollars, t.i:,_:e is _iso at this time, an undetermined penalty that the
City cou.d ;_ur_eer in its, CrTA funding ;-rc,?rams for next year. So, I
don't }::,ow , nat tsie con�.,_7.u:?nces are of that.
Mr. Carollo: ell Grimm, I would iika then, for Mrs. Christie
to be gi.vc., tl,,-• : , portunit1 tc, represent her ca--e before this Commission,
and if now going tc it; forced to act upon this under the
shotgun, I '_:.iri it':; only fair and just that we would include
whoma✓er their c;i,.nt is in this resolution also.
Mr. Grimm: Mrs. Christie was phoned by a member of my staff, Commissioner.
Mayor Ferre: Wait a minute, just for the record, on what basis?
Mr. Carollo: Fo: the record, mr. Mayor, what we're presenting is that
these are going tc ::e the different colleges or tichool:s t;-iat will
be studied. 1 don't 1`.inx* bhat we are forced, in ot:,ar words, what
I'm stating is the following; if we has:- a resolution t;.at these would
be the ones that we will be picking, but not Zorced to pick any one of
ist 44 1 7.
N,
41�60
9 f
Mr. Carollo (continued): them, then we will be giving the opportunity
to Mr. Christie to present his case. I think that the way this was
done was don_.. in a very unjust way. In other words, what I'm trying
to do is what is fair and right. If someone was tole that this was
not going to he coming on this meeting, a^.ci they are not
present because of that, and now we're told something di:feren;:, I
don't think it's right that they are going to be excluded because of
that.
Mayor Ferrc- I think that what Mir. Carollo is saying is reasonable.
ifir. Grimr..
Mr. Grimm: ' es, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Are you representing to this Commission that if we don't
deal with this today that we are in jeopardy of the million four, or
can we deal with it on May 7th and still come within the
Mr. Grimm: The Three prociram,, that you you to -day are
twenty week i=,-,rams. The apsolur_, latest aa.e that twenty weeks
would expire e;•�forc Septe-..1',ber 3. Ln is May 1Lth. Now, you would
automatically presurr.e ' h='_ « you waii:ed until May and took action
on this, that v.'': accomplish that aea,iline. .bu what you're.
then Sayinq la t'nat the psople that have to ccnduc:t these classes
have nc t pport'inity to start up for cla: ses to qet organized and
everything. So you do have that logistics problem. You would place
everyone of these contracts in the position of having to act in four
days.
Mayor Ferre: All right, then let me put it to you...
Mr. Plummer.: but you see, that's wrong.
Mayor Ferre: J. L....
Mr. Plummer: I can't let that go by, I'm sorry.
Mayor Ferre: Go ahead.
Nx. Plummer: You know, Mr. Krause, a simple question. How long have
you known this?
Mr. Krause: Several months.
Mr. Plummer: Several months you've known this. You see. They've
known it for tw,, months. I assume several is two or more.
Mr. Krause: A.",out ;three months.
Mr. Plummer: About +hr..:e months, they've had the opportunity to take
action. T':C';' ,iih' n,ih' coani ng .:ore lls and saying, Commission, you
haven't c,ct any ;cc, t-ecausu t'i.at's w'r,cat they are saying. Because
they are 9ci1--.-, tc, zav that. '_f we don't accc!pt what's here and tii,
have to go na: k <iu'. ct re6o :.L that we're go--ng to lose the money,
and it's t:;^ �o,:sc_...ior:'., 57iu't. That'_, h:-T«as . :'m tired ci
this hc,c-wash. ' ..-S CO:-,71issio7; is c.oing to YL:7 the Ci-, v or
the ac?r.rir,_.�r:.,,.o:.. a ,,c�rl,.i;c„, better _-i,.., out which one it's going
to be. Bocau;e wnon i'li :sitting her( pis d COfi1 15S1Gil� r, Vrk not going
to be forced l n `c !'T"l.^.� 5 . And that's where we are, not once, riot twice
but all day lonca.
Mr. Krause: I would ''ke the ol�pertunity just to speak for about
two minutes because I...
Mayor Ferre: Go ,ahead, fr. Kraucp. I tiaink you'd better speak a little
louder because we can't hear you. Go ahead.
Mr. Krause: I think it's important for the Commission to understand as
' 45
i1rr I
Mr.. Krause (continued): much of this as possible. The contracts that
are now before you result from some r.ew requirements that are in the
CETA Program this year, for the first time. We are required by
regulations of the Department of Labor...
Mayor Ferre: Wait a minute because I want... Plummer, you know, you're
making some strong accusations. I want you to listen to them, give them
the courtesy of listening for five minutes to his answer,
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I apologize, and I'll give them the courtesy
they don't give me.
Mayor ro rre: Okay.
Mr. Plummer: I'll listen. I happen to be a good listener.
Mr. Krause: We are required by the regulations by the Department of
Labor to spend a specified amount of money on trail:.., for CEETA
particip nt.s. We aro able to count Loth co. ; *:,*I :t costs, plus wages
and fringe benefits of t.'ie ;%aL't i 1pa:.tS 4:. ce in the training, plus
other incl-'6entul ostF:. Now I inGiccatt--' to Co:imissioner Pl,-i-mner that
we had been aw.%re of tl) . vT the Last several months. We have, in fact,
been solic-'tinc- We published a request for proposals in the...
in all of t.:. :a.ily media, the ethnic media. We yot proposals back,
we dia evaluate them.
Mayor Ferre: How many proposals did you get?
Mr. Krause: lie got, I think, about eight or nine proposals.
Mayor Ferre: of which you're recommending three, and Mrs. Christie's
client is the fourth. How about the other four?
Mr. Krause- Let me continue on, please. Since this is the first
year that we've been able to enter into training programs and
training contracts, we've been proceeding fairly carefully in order to
develop a rprngram that would be good for t'",e particip.ints and that would
not causes- us later to have audit exceptions from the Depr%rrx.lent of
Labor. ::ow for the current years, our CETA allocations ...nclud(-
approximately one point tour million dollars, for tcaininc in both
Title's IID and Title VI combine:.. The three contracts that. are on
the agenda today would involve approximately twa ..^u.: rep: `ho::Sand
dollars for professional services. That i-�, ti,e co:.t acts with the
SCi,OilS ;nlus an estimated '`_wo hundred and fifty �!:CL'Sand G liars
for par. - wage's and fringes. i say estimate--, 1)u cau iT
studerp arc- out of the training program, L e•,7 arc: no lonnt2r eligible
to hive _ wages and fringes courted ac,air,st t:7c cost, and that
means t 7t \v,e .,c)ul.i have di--ficulty Slidi%g new SCut entS into a course
that was in progress. What wE;'re talkinc-, about today amounts
to approx4`.--;az:,1y cn,_ third of the total that is available for training.
Mayor Ferre: In r-,tner words, what you're saying is that this is not
the end of it. We have to get going with the program.
Air. Krause: We have to get Going, but it's. certainly not the end,
Now Vince Grimm his indicated to you that the requ' ations from the
Federal gov,:rnment indicate that if w� don't :Lpend the full amount,
the amount ur.s,)fnt t:-:ald L,: r_onsiJered what Dc.'. culls a disallowed
cost. And that's S t1fC E'X::Ct Ulra�i', a il5d11CW( i; :'he regulations
don't specify `v 3t this ter . means, and we've L_EI: trying to find out.
And there arc-- i..,iications from DoL '...hat it Ira: thaat anv amount
that is not slit .-: `o�- i.l.alning, would be recuircc: to be reimbursed by
the City, from Cit.;- ordc-r t0 r,�in'."uin th, -,;amc program, at
the same level nextyear; but with the funding Ueing reduced from
CETA, , ,.1 maintained g;J, City a_>propriated
Mayor Ferre: Oh my God.
ist
Mr. Krause: What this obviouslh rnean_-., is that bt�c-use of the ;a era
that's involved, we need to create more• traininy t•i, ,jrams during
the current fiscal year that ends Sep -,umber 30th. So we are thc-refore,
working on a number of approaches. One of the approaches that we're
working on is than. we are negotiating curl%ntly w.Lth Garces Commercial
College for a:lditional programs because, amor.(- rn_r.er things, they have
the lcv:est unit cos;.. That is, the lowest ccst per E-udent. Wo have
been discussing, with them a project for clerical on a fall
time basis, for candidates who are not fluent in n:;iis�;. V.e have
also Lt,:n ,is�-u3sing pos-zible programs usinc English as a second
language for laborers, in order to improve the empliva-uility
opportuni. t;s for laborers. And our staff members
"i
ApR 241980
Mr Krause: ... means is that because of the hazard that is involved we ncud to
create more training programs during the current fiscal year that ends September
30th, so we are therefore working on a number of approaches. One of the approaches
that we are working on is that we are negotiating currently with Garces
Commercial College for additional programs because amoar other thir.ss they have
the lowest unit cost. That is the lower cost per student. We have bc-L,n
discussing; with them a project for clerical tr«ininp, on fuli-ti:r.e ; <.;,is. for
candidates who are not fluent in En"l.ish. We have also b,'Ln .iiscuss�ng possible
programs using English as a second language for laborors in order to improve
the employability opportunities for laborer: and our StI f i:'.07"�cr:: 'lave ret
several times with the school President we w(:re told cariivr today flat we would
receive a I'' -0 from them yet today. It may have come in, "r,ut I have been
here all aftern:).n and haven't seen it.
Mr. Lacasa: Mr. Krause, T understand. I underst,.nd tht.• ,problem and 1 understand
the question of the federal funding pretty well. I myself, you know, ran a prograr.
of this nature for quite a few years. How much money do we have under this
particular item? here we have that what you are proposing to approve.... to
allocate today is two hundred fifty thousand dollars more c :.:ss.
Mr. Plummer: No.
Mr. Lacasa: How much...
Mr. Plummer: Two hundred thousand.
Mr. Krause: Plus two hundred fifty thousand.
Mr. Lacasa: No, no, you have two hundred fifty thousand.
Mr. Plummer: No, that's separate.
Mr. Krause: That item is the wages and...
Mr. Plummer: A total of four hundred fifty thousand if you want...
Mr. Lacasa: A total of four hundred fifty thousand. Ok, how much more do we have
besides this on this particular program?
Mr. Krause: About nine hundred fifty thousand.
Mr. Lacasa: In other words, if we appropriate today this four hundred fifty thousand
dollars there is still enough money to consider their application?
Mr. Krause: That is correct. Among other things we have found out very recently
that the CETA consortium is negotiating with that school M.T.I. for some additional
programs. And if they developed more central facilities that would be an incentive
for us to negotiate a contract with them.
Mr. Lacasa: With this particular outfit?
Mr. Krause: Yes, sir.
Mr. Lacasa: How mulch 'longer will the negotiation take with these people?
Mr. Krause: The nezotiat:ons really don't take this very long, maybe a couple
of weeks, but th<_•re are some problems of timing that for example, involve
clearing contracts wit;-: the LaW D,-_ artment and then the acvance notice time to
get something on the Coiur,ission ut,:,nda. It might only tape us a couple of weeks.
It might take anotl..!r four weeks to get somethinc on the agenda. But we... you
know, it's not oor i;; cc�ion to delay because the longer we take, the harder it
is to use the funds and th.-, funds are intended for the benefit of the participants
of the program.
Mr. Carollo: Mr. Krause, i;: 1 may just ask you one simple question. Who determines...
who makes the final decision as to whom these contracts will go to? The Administration
or tile Commission?
Mr. Krause: The City Commission.
Mr. Carollo: Thank you, sir.
'X7
A PR r 4 198U
s 0
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Krause, let me ask a question of you sir. Was there any
approach to the Dade County School Board to perform this service?
Mr. Krause: No, sir.
Mr. Plummer: kfi y not? They are in the buslnuss of teaching and have the
programs that you are speaking about and that's two hundred thousand dollars
that could go to the School Board to help them. Why, weren't they approach?
Mr. Krause: Specifically we have been attempting to worn with lliaau L+adc
Community College on additional training, ?roF;rams rat!-,e-- than the. School Board
because we... he impression... the assessment of most people who have been
involved in V,-._,power Development Training, llrcgralas over t-e- 'last fifteen years
since they be, 11 in 1964, is that it is not wise to use:,• Cne public school
system beca.,:-- nat`s the systum that has tailed the young people in the first
place. That',, �.hy there is school dropouts and that's why there are narcicorc
unemployed. Teat t!;ere out:.ht to be al tcrnative farms of ir.sCructior,s that maybe
more effective than what the put-,7ic schools were to begin with.
Mr. Plumr.ar: Well, of course, 1: don't necessarily agree with that. Mr. Krause,
I want to get back to one sir.ple question. When did this pro. -rani tot this fiscal
year start'! Did it start October 1st?
Mr. Krause: To tell you the truth, I am not positive because I was out ill at
the time.
Mr. Plummer: Your assistant is here?
(BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Mr. Plummer: When did this program as such start? Was it on the fiscal year?
Mr. Krause: It's my recollection from having checked this, that the first instructions
we got on this came in mid November.
Mr. Plummer: `lid November'.
Mr. Krause: 1;:t,id November our department had assigned to it two people from a
different department who were suppose to be training experts. They prepared a
traiuinF propo al that would not have used hardly any of the money and it would
nc.t have been very effective, so we had to start over and that's one of the things
that tock it's time.
Mr. Plumrcer: But in other words, you knew since mid November as I understand,
that this program was a must?
Mr. Krause: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plum,:er: And hure we are November, December, January, February, March, April.
We are five months '_ater and you are sitting here telling this Commission in
effect that if you can't accept those recoiimendation by the Administration, then
the Commission is _ to be at fault for losing the xoney.
Mr. Krause: I':., sayinb ;.hat the City will be, because...
Mr. P1ururer- I'm n_; th..s very simply. Had you been efficient to the point
of this comin` before :'..:Ls Comrission two months aS;o, which I feel you could have
done within ninety da Lren this Commission could have had the latitude to
agree or to disagree.
Mayor Ferri,: i.on:c, let *a(: simpl: `- .hi whole thing for you. I will trove you
sir, that Chie MJtt�_:t ,:.,: lea 4,"" ii we 10S5 [Ilk.. rnilliOn 011r hundred Lhousanc Mr. Krause,
dollars, that's your fault. Now, you conv back here with a sensible and reasonable
approach to it on May .'r.d or you sir, begin to surrender that money to the
federal government.
Mr. I.acasa: Well, first :•; a.'% we don't lose 1.4 million dollars and the reason
why is because if we start IaL t the Daly thing that we might lose will be one or
two weeks allocation. The nur^:,cr of weeks that we might lose will be about a
couple of them. And still I don't believe that the City of Miami should be in
a position of losing one single penny.
9 , �9�o
A r' i r.,
f
Mr. Plummer: I'm not going to vote for it.
Mr. Carollo: Well, Armando, this is what I want to find out and this is the
point that I wanted to make and I'm glad you brought it out. Mr. Grimm, if
I may have your attention for a minute, please. Now, you stated to me... to this
Commission that we will lose 1.4 million dollars. The truth of the matter is
sir, that we would not lost that whole amount. We would lose the weeks that
we would take before we take action upon this. Is that correct on that, sir?
Mr. Grimm: Yes. What I'm saying Commissioner...
Mr. Carollo: Well, what I'm saying sir, is that I would hope that in the future
you tell us the truth and don't over dramatize the situation. Because it's
not 1.4 milli.,n dollars we will be losing.
Mr. Grimm: Lc me phrase it a different way then, if I might.
Mr. Carollo: I certainly hope you would sir.
Mr. Grimm: What I'm trying to say is that you would lose that which you did not
spend. Is that understood? If you didn't spend... if you sr.end a :.zillion dollars...
Mr. Carollo,: But sir, this is not what you said 'v,iore. So I am glad... I'm very
glad you clarified it.
Mr. Gtimir.: Wr,r.t I am d,� -i::.:issioner is correcting what I said -.efore, but
I w:nt. it correct,:: ii-, such away so we. don't have a further misunderstand.no.
What I'm tr.- n, co say is that we would lose what we didn't spend, plus have
the possible penalty that at this time I can't tell you what that ^-,i.k,ht be, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, look, I think we ha-.7� talked about t`-iis 10, rnolrh. I
think yeu feet thy: mess ,Ze. Yo., come hack h re and you ;:ropose tc us the full
expenditure of that money by May 7th or as much of it as you can on a reasonable
basi:< and I h_gpe you take everyt:nin _:-ito consi:eration. With regards to Mrs.
Chr-istie's client, NOW, 1 have bQen T-I nior;red and I don't like that. They
do not "ciave their operation on 79t;, Street, they have an operation down on
Bricked Avenuu and evic.�ntially somebody is not aware of that. They 'haven't
been... They have not even been afforded the courtesy of a visit. You say on
the record, just say there what you just told me.
!fr. Marshall Berkson: M.T.I. School, sir. I'm the President Marshall Berkson.
We did have a visit, but we... it was a visit at our main office. They did not
take into account our other facilities which we were willing to provide in the
Downtown location. One as a matter of fact, right across the street from their
office.
Mayor Fr:rc. From who's office?
Mr. Berkson: I•rom Mr. Krause's office on llth Street. But I go along with what
you said and I think maybe in the interim we can work this thing out. It's
unfortunate Nr. Christie wasn't here, but I think in the intervening time we
can work this out.
Mayor Ferre: ',':. Krause, would you personally look after this? I know you are
very busy, but r.hi; is very important. Would you personally attend to this and
would you personally talk to these different people?
Mr. Krause: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, sir., thank you, very much. Is there any further discussion
on this item?
Mr. Plummer: Well, what was the action taken?
Mayor Ferre: There as a motion to defer until the May 7th and we will wait for
Christie to come back an,.; by that time hopefully we will have this whole thing
worked out. Is that acL�:ptable?
Mr. Plummer: It's not acceptable to me.
Mayor Ferre: It's not acceptable. Well, what do you want to do?
Mr. Plummer: It's not acceptable to me.
Mayor Ferre: Well, what is it you want to do Plummer?
Mr. Plummer: I want more information.
Rev. Gibson: You what?
Mr. Plummer: I want more information. I am not going to sit here and let these
people make foils out of me and lose two hundred thousand dollars... four hundred
fifty thousanc dollars. You ain't going to hang that one on me. Put the monkey
on the back where it belongs.
Mayor Ferre: Aoll, I'm not worried about the monkey. What I'm worried about
is the money.
Mr. Plummer: That's the monkey.
Mayor Ferre: That's not the monkey.
Mr. Plummer: He is holding the green backs.
Mayor Ferre: I'm worried about losing the money...
Mr. Plummer: Well, -ie,,, I'm not going to walk out that door and let Human
Resource off she L100o , c.nd that's what we are doing. We are letting them off the
hook for losing this City four hundred fifty thousand dollars.
Mayor Ferre: Plummer, what are you recommending?
Mr. Plummer: I am listening to the wisdom. The wisdom. Now, I want them to
squirm. Tell me Mr. Krause, how you are going to save that money. I want to
hear.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, you know, what he is going tell you. Approve what I have
recommended.
Mr. Pluntner: Sure he can and I'm going to tell him that, that's not acceptable.
Mayor Ferre: Well, he... that's... he already knows that. But I don't think
you expect for him to give you an answer to that today.
Mr. Grimm: Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, we have a special workshop
meeting of the Commission tomorrow.
Mr. Plummer: Great.
Mr. Grimr.: I think that we can contact each of these proposed contractors that
we have on th, aj,enda .oday, discuss with them the idea that we will not be able
to formally reccgnize their...
Mayor Ferre:: 'icu are a wonderful substitute Assistant City *tanager. 1 want to
tell you sumet'„irg. I wen'. to Mr. Grassie's office, now granted Mr. Grassie
was on his wa•✓ to r .:il wherever he went and he called Mr. Krause and that was
more, than a week age.. Ani 1 talked to... I tried to call Mr. Krau.e yesLerday.
I just tal:.ed to i,1 Y. is t tle wh : ; ,: ago and the f.:_ct is that : don't see that you
done what I thought :._ . Cr sr..e had said was ro be done. So what 1'tr. telling
you ,rJr is if you want th- s :.:.lv�; then you so1•:c it the wav that they Con.-,iission
wants it solved :,i.r. AIT. I �i:iab we are going to have to accept it that way.
Mr. Grimm: i.ct me a:.k a few Lc_stion, ti.en if I r.:ight, scn that I undE•rstand
what direction to take. We r.ould Lor:I l-'ack with... to you tomorrow and inform
you that the three pL.nuic, contractors c,n still .ffectivc•ly start a class by
May 12th ii the Commiss,cr coes not formally authorize them to proceed until May
7th or Sth. That would b- nu7�11er one. .and in the interim period of time we
would negotiate further co:,,--, t5 6o that w, would have a more complete package
to present to you at that sam, tire.
Mayor Ferre: I will tell you what I think is the most equitable gay of doing this.
If you have chosen three or four or whatever it is that you choose and we are not
telling you who to choose. The best way to do this in my opinion is to divide
those contracts equitably amongst those four contractors and let them each have
��. 1980
le
a crack at it. If you set the specifications as to the class size and balance
it out and I think you have to negotiate whatever it is you have to and let
these four contractor do the same thing.
Mr. Carollo: Mr. Mayor, if I may make one last closing statement, if I may.
I think the problem lies that we are paying Mr. Grassie sixty-one thousand
four hundred fourteen dollars in expenses to be the City Manager in Miami and
run the City of Miami from Miami, not in the vacation lands of Brazil.
Mayor Ferre: Well, let me tell you that I think Mr. Grassic has t`.,.• derfect
right to take a vacation like any other human being. he is enti.rI(?d to take
a week or tvo o- three weeks off according to the law. And I think Mr. Grassie,
if he is doing ,_),mething in con, unction with his vacation that is helpful to
the City of Mi.:~i is totally appropriate. I don't think that we should
castigate Mr. G, ssie because he takes a vacation. I don't think that, that's
a sin that I knew of, nor is it against the law.
Mr. Carollo: well,, Mr. Mayor, I would just like to point out that before Mr.
Grassie left the City of Miami was faced with quite a serious situation that
deserved the City *tanager to be present here.
Mayor Ferre: with regards to what?
Mr. Carollo: It's in ret;:rds of the pr-llt-m that t,,u had in the Cuban... Peruvian
Embassy in Cuba and the excitt•ment: that we had justified in the community. And
Mr. Grassie, was aware of tlri<< ' . ire ht. left and he didn't see fit that him
as the top administr:i.t --_ Liiat we have in the ii'_v of Mian;i would have .tayed
a little lonc,e: `. �! tie would see tii.it the prUh1cm wJL1t: be res olvt:' in the most
calm way. l.. I ,.hould t ar,k thosc finc Pol comreii that we iiad here t'.iz.:t were in
the front lines for keeping the calm that was ;cept in the City of M:Lami during
that time, no thanks to our City Manager.
Mayor Ferre: Is there anything else that we have to talk about.
Mr. Pluriuner: Mr. N,ayor, is 1 would dus.- make a comment to Mr. Carollo's statement.
I think there is a reason whti :.he Comamission does not meet in the month of
August and it's cal.ud v;,c,stion and I was always under the impression that
everybody around ht-re was to `ake their vacations during the month of August
because ;:here were no meetings and...
Mayor Ferre: Are you saying tliat the Manager can only take vacations in August?
Mr. Plummer: %o, sir, but I will tell you what. I work mine around the Commission
meetings and I takemy major vacation during the month of August when we don't
have meetings and I guess I really don't expect any less of anyone else around
here and I don't make sixty-onee thousand a year.
Mayor Ferre: Ict. Well, how come that wasn't... yes, well, how come that
wasn't applicable to Paul Andrews and to Mel Reese before him?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I can't speak for Paul Andrews or Mel Reese, I speak
for J. L....
Mayor Ferre: But you c:ar for Joe Grassie.
Mr. Plummer. And ' si�ak for the administration whoever they might be today or
tomorrow.
Mayor Ferre: But not yesterday?
Mr. Plummer: I prefer not to discuss that subject.
Mayor Ferre: And it was ok for another City Manager to take vacations whenever he
wanted, but it's not ok for Joe Grassie to take vacations.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, ycu stayed on a plane from about fourteen hours from
Costa Rica as I remember, just so you would not be absent at a meeting, because
you feel a responsibility tc ne here to these meetings as I do. And I thi:ik that
anyone who does less in my estimation doe:,n't have obviously the same concern as
you and I do, because I have only missed as I recall three meetings in ten years
and those three times I was in Mercy Hospital.
' 52
-; 41980
Mayor Ferre: Alright, I don't think we are getting, any where with this. Is
there anything else on Item 20? Alright, this item will be taken up tomorrow
then. So there is a motion by Plummer, seconded by Gibson to defer this item
until tomorrow, call the roll.
Mr. Plummer: That is Mr. Mayor, of course, with the administration's consensus
that in fact waiting twenty-four hours will not lose any money.
Mayor Ferre: Further discussion,...
Mr. Plummer: Did I hear the administration's answer?
Mr. Grimm: We will do our best to assure the City that there will. be no loss of
money to the C.'ty.
Mayor Ferre: Low about this time tomorrow? Toward the end of the day tomorrow.
Right around 6 o'clock. Alright, further discussion, cull the roll.
THEREUPON THE FOREGOING MOTION TO DEFhR ITEM NO. 20
to the next Cca-m;ission meeting, was introauced by
Commissioner Plummer, and seconded by
Gibson, and was passed and adopted b, t unainimous vote.
14. (A) REIMBURSE J-.XPENSES TO "Jti�TA PATR:OTICA I.UBkNA" for use of the
MIAMI STt%DiU::;
(B) Declare 1,11,AY 20 as "JUn'TA I'Al"R.I011CA CUIiANA DAY" in Miami; r
(C) DECLAn11; D):� Or W!:LCO*:i TO ;�i.'ri.'_' A} -;RIVING CUBAN RLFUGEES. tr
Mayor Ferre: All right, the next item we have is a of diLtingui.hed
Cubans that are here on iten NO. 23. (*L,i10R FERRE :ci READ A PNh)ARED
RESOLUTION 1` TITLE INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD). Is there a motion?
Mr. Carollo: Mr. Mayor, if I may ma ice a correction ti;r way the Ke.olution
was print,_u'. There was a typographical terror in the game of the Junta Pa-
triotica Cub.ina, so if that could be corrected I would appreciate it. I
have handed some supplementary material. on this I'm sure every Commission
member has received, so I move this motion at this time...
Mr. Lacasa: Let's give a little bit of a background first.
Mayor Ferre: Wait a minute, is there a second?
Mr. Lacasa: I second the moti„n. Okay, the c,uestion here
is this: This Commission went record at the begirining of the Peruvian
Embassy in ciab,,na affair supporting the efforts of the Cuban community
in helping th�ise rsj'u5ees to leave the Islar.6, to rccei L food, medicines
and supplies .J for co:iiection purposes. it that p,;rL;cu:ar point, the Com-
missic . Law fit t0 offer tiit' Cra.-i,,c Bowl for '.,iE'. �)l:r�i'Si. i ;iCi;.':;1)'. any meet—
ings and any colections that mi);ht be needed. ine Bowl wa:, in repairs
and, consequ( ,*_ly, what. was offered to a ;roue -the one tnat is before us
today- the Junta Patrietica Cubana, was the facility at the Miami Stadium
which they used last Saturday for the purpose of holding a meeting for the
Cuban c•onn-.unity in support of the refugees in Habana. So, therefore, at this
point, I would "Like to call the question if there is no further discussion
on the waiving of the fees which is in conjunction with the previous action
taken by the City Commission.
Mayor Ferre: Further discussion, call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Carollo, who moved
its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-299
A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE REIMBURS13'IENT OF EXPENSES
INCURRRED BY JUNTA PATRIOTICA CLE.�LNA IN CONNECTION WITH
Tlir T;SE OF THE MikN:I STADIA' ON SATI"RDAY, APRIL 19, 1980,
RELA: i.:;G TO THE RECENT PERUVIAN LNIBASSY C;RiSIS IN HABA.NA,
CL'BA, P.Nij THE CO:..LECTION OF FOOD AID MEDICINE FOR THE
REF"JOEW. SI T 1 i THL• RE1MB.RSEMEN, T 1.0 TAKE PLACE UPON FUN, S
BEING Nail=: A ':,,ILABL:.: FROM THE SPECIAL PROGRAMS A.N'D ACCOUNTS -
SPF.CIAL _,.1"xfUNITY PROGRAMS, QUALITY OF LIFE Pi:OGRAM, FEE
WAIVER ACC.^i NT.
(Here : '.'.caws oody of resolution, omitted here and on file
in the C:fi.:e of the City Clerk).
Upon being secor,r.::;; by Commissioner Lacasa, the resolution was passed and
adopted by the fe-iow;ng vote:
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Comr.,issioa-,r (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Commissioner .,oe Carollo
Vice Mayo. Amaadc Lac.r.sa
Mayor Mauricc. A. Ferre
—NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
'
54
t r) 7 r?e. loon
11
Mr. Vince Grimm: Mr. Mayor, members of the Cot.unissi.on, just so we don't
have a technicality, I see in the Agenda that that's wrongly listed as
the Marine Stadium we really mean the Miami Stadium.
Mr. Lacasa: It's the Miami Stadium, oi:a. another mistake in the agenda.
NOW, thy. Tunra P triotica Cubana, CQ0'A,ratcd with the effort
not only of helping the Cuban refugees in the 1h,i')ana 1s.), ssy uT Peru, but
also in bringing about something very rare so fa. in our cor'anunity, which
has bce•n unity among the Cuban exiles. In cooper, r.i-�g in this effort I
think that t[li3 rgani7.dtion hus dcnu a great st rv. , 6 t.- the cause of
democracy, to the cause of freedom ,,nd for the l:ibc_rat lon of + uba. I
feel that i . moving now that this Co.,..:i!4sion a,2IKnw,•ledie the l£forts of the
Junta Patriotica, comm,,nd i.1. and supporc it ana ofit: tile:a our s�;.port. and
whatever :a' -A We can give ::inc:m, we arm j 1,-,ing the ..t,ciiite> of tnt grt-at
majority ,i zc Cuban txiled on"` also of the rest of this com-
munity thr: i:: frk_cdozi ar.,: il; tleint,c;-acy. So I move that the City
Commission c.'iicially e::�r-ss cu tte dur.tu Patricticu here: rein:�st:nted by
its President, jr. �;anuel Antonio GL VaroI2a, another distinguished member
of the Cuban community in exile, is this sense.
Mr. Caroiio: I second the motion.
Mayor Ferre: There is a motion and a second, f•--ther discussion, call the
roll.
The following moti was introduced by Commissioner Lacasa, who moved its
adoption.
MOTION NO. 80-300
A MOTION OF COMMENDATION TO DR. MA-NVEL ANTONIO DE VARONA
FOR HELPING HL CZ;BA;; C0.`ONUNIT'Y IN LNILE ACHIEVE THE HIGH
DEGREE OF UNITY 'WHICH rjiS BEEN ACNILVLL AXO.NG THE CUBAN
REFUGi:L•S IN 1:i1S CO.'"DICN Ti DURING THE PRESL•'NT CRISIS.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Carollo, the motion was passed and
adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commiesicnur .'. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Vice Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT. None.
Mr. Carollo: Mr. Mayor, at this time, if I may, I would like to take a couple
of minutes of the C,,jmmission's time to present ar,ot}.er couple of motions. The
next motion I is not the norm that we have foilow&d in the City to bring
before tne...for voct: of the Commission on this motion. I would li"Ne for
this Comniission to v upon declaring Mav 2Cth, a aa: that is very close to
the heart of ev_ry Gub:n, the Day of the Junta Patriotica Cubana, here in Miami.
Mr. Lacasa: Secor.,i.
Mayor Ferre: Tht:re is a motion and a second, further discussion, call the
roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Carollo, who moved its
adoption.
MOTION NO. 80-301
A MOTION DECLARING MAY 20TH AS THE "DAY OF THE JUNTA PATRIO-
TICA CUBANA.It
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Lacasa, the motion was passed and
adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Vice Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None. I
1
ABSENT: None.
Mr. Carollo: My other motion, rir. Mayor, is that I would like for this Com-
mission to �vte today. before I present the motion, I'd just like to remind this.
Commissior:ii,, America was built. It opened its doors to t:ie oppressed and to
people who wc.e looking for freedom and this is what inade America t;reat.And
we have a sit,:.;,tic,n in Cuba presently that the government of Cu),-,, same' type
of government that is '-iin the Soviet Union, ULL.1l:niSm, tfle worst i)e o: govern-
ment that has buen known to man in all s its history. The. situation we
have In Cuba s L:13t we have t�-:ou-.anGs of Cull,in, re.fti;�ee s that want to come to
our Shurt'S. arC lll'nic,1 uvcn 1035t biL o_ i1I -i!"1 They
are truly in fCrir of thc,ir lives. 1';,.:y arc coming za -es oy the boat-
loads. I want to make a inction that tais Cir_,�, of the City of
Miami go on -record on welcor;ing theme Cuban refugees that are coming to our
shores now and in the future.
Mr. Lacasa: Seco•,d.
Mayor Ferre: Call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Carollo, who moved its
adoption.
MOTION NO. 80-302
A MOTION THAT THE CITY OF MIAMI COKMISSION GO ON RECORD IN
OFFICIALLY WELCOMING THE CUBAN REFUGEES THAT ARE ARRIVING
TO MIAMI AS WELL AS TO THOSE REFUGEES THAT SHALL ARRIVE IN
THE FUTURE.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Lacasa, the motion was passed and
adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Vice Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
.x
15, fli(Sr AN-) 'NC,
U}' .'t;AS]:uli.iTS' A'b :)i: iG",v STL iiL};J _'CiR 'I A ,KING STRUCiL'RE
Major f'err, : Alrlknt, take u}) item ii ,nec:aus'e that needs Lo')L by ocu
we vut� cn It.t:; Is there any objections to Item 11? J. L. you got
problems with .hat?
Mr. Plummer: �..t me find out what it is. Mr. Mayor, yes, I have some ?roblems
with one portic.,-i of it. I don't have problems with the entire. My problems are
with the hun6r.:,d seventy-five thousand dollars.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, well, let's... I will tell you can you move it deleting
that?
Mr, Plummer: Sure.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, deleting the laat portion...
Mr. Fosmoen: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: We have a substitute motion that we would like to or resolution
we would like to bring to the Commission.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, fine, can we see it?
Mr. Fosmoen: G,ell, we think that the concept of doing development studies for
parking purposes in the City will ultimately cost that much. We would like to
recommend that we allocate at this point thirty thousand dollars for the
Government C-_;:ter Study and wu will come back to you with subsequent studies for
your approval.
Mr. Plummer: �iy substitute motion still remains Mr. Mayor, whether or not I get
a second for it or not.
Mayor Ferre: Well, now J. L., I think it's very important that we begin the
process of stuc:.ng the parking and I have talked to Mitchell Wolfson and Labaw
on both of that and they are all in favor of our going ahead and studying. Now,
where 1 ai f r nrA where I agree with you. Wncre I diffcr wit'1 them is that I
don't thin}: a.. c.�ri go out and give them a blank hundred seventy-five thousand
dollars ...
Mr. Plummer: Ag,reec
Mayor Ferre: Huh?
Mr. Plummer: Agreed.
Mayor Ferre: oe., now with regards to the specific case of... I think they have
got to come back gara},e L.v garage and ask us for permission and that's what... I
think that's wh%t I heard Iosmoen say.
Mr. Fosmoen: That's what we are })roposing.
Mayor Ferre: Ana thi-t's acceptable isn't it?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor., let me tell you what my problem is, you know, and I guess
I go back to Father's ol.' ay'_np. I am concerned more so after the last Commission
meeting about Off -Street P,r:_ing _'luthor`_t_, that I, you know, it really pained me
to vote <_AiaSt L}13L issue, (nCk', rF•;ard.ess of wh::L anybody wants to believe
beCnU e the:- � i Ultl, ut questicin �: nerd fo: but I am very much
concerned Mr. Mayor, abour the ('rff-Str -,-t Parr:ing Authori,y being in that business
on belieHt of this Commission. An(i now t};c 11",=,fission is going to Gave another
agency be involved. I would feel ;,.ore comfortable ivirq that n;oney to the
Off -Street Parkin, whc is the coordinator... they are the coorc:na,.;_ for all of
Downtown. Let then,; do the study under their auspices and take oar ieople into
wing. I just have a real problem with the fact that here we are proposing, to
do a hundred seventy-five thousand dollars worth of a study. I can tell you the
study for twenty-five cents. Yes, we need more parking, but are we going to
come back and be faced with the same issue that we were faced with, with this
recent issue and that was interest that I. felt we couldn't afford to pay. I
just feel that it would be better candor umd)re.11ca, tl.ac th,, Oif-Street Parking
Authority. If this Com ission feels that they .ire ri,lt ('oing an ad quate iob
let's get rid of them and we will take it all in house. I just feel a divided
house has got to fill, that's my feeling.
Mr. Fosmoen: C-�n;missioner in response to at least a couple of the issues that
you raised. Fi-),n the time... I agree with you for twenty-five cunt we c,.n ail
decide if we nt :-d parking Downtown. Unfortunatoiy people won't buy boa( —, based
on a twenty-:i-:- cent study. They need the assurance of a nationally recognized
firm and with a„ of the : taListic., anci the nurilhers behind it. So vc:. know,
that's a fact of !ife Con,--,ssioner.. Secondly', it takes at li'ast t11,_'it,:e11 months
to two years to gc.,t the proc.�,,ss up and running. To act a Project to the point
where wr can issue construction contracts. No of us expected six months ago
that interest rates would be at eleven percent and no of us can predict what
interest rates arl going to be at in two yl mars or ciOnt month` W,' <._� .l )'Je they
wil.2 come clown, ,,ut if we don't start n:,)w... _✓ou r<.now, .v r.aa; wu ueiay we. are
puttin;; off the problem.
Mr. Pla!,.er: 'fr. Fosmoen, I have nr� problem with what you say. It's what you
don't say that `,.otlitr5 me. i :1 vote right now to spend a hundred seventy-five
or thi.rt", triou�c;:ind ;as r•.':.uested to give it to the Oft-,tre.et earkin;, Nutficrlt�' to
do it. T:lev a,•_ coordinators. They are the ones who ar,.e charged with the
responsibi i 1': y bx' Lhis Cool?fission to prOV idc flit' ad( qu ite needs of Downtown. Now,
You are adding one more layer into the situation. You are dividing the house in
my estimation. I'm all in favor of expenditure of the money.
Mr. Fosmoen: Co=A—,sioner, it's not our intention to exclude the C£f-Street
Parkin4,, Aut'lorit`, from this 7rocess, but you will notice that Borne of the
areas t'lat we were talking, about wereo,:�side of the Downtown area. You know,
Little. Havana, Coconut Grove, they all have some parking needs and we want to
come back. to you with subsequent request to study those. In addition, the area
that we want to concentrate on is the Government Center.
Mr. Plum, -..or: Fine, that is in the Downtown.
Mr. Fosmoen: Uell, it's on the edge of Downtown. It's our position Commissioner
that because of rill of the other develnpments that are going on in that area which
we are a major part to... now, the State Building, the Federal Building, the County
Building, The Transit System that crosses in the area we are in a better position
to work with the consultants in putting the package together that will go out for
bond issue.
Mr. P1urrl•,er: Mr. Fosmoen, you make a nice presentation, but you haven't convinced
me. You are hold:nE, a check book over their head and they can't afford it at this
time. And as :-.r rlS "'-'i concerned,•the only way I would vote for it is to take
th,it check -and ':,sae it tr the Off -Street Parking Authority, let Mr. Kauffman
work with thcr. and ,,et ob done by one coordinating... not one more layer of
bure.,ucracy arul I'm .cal d that's what's going; to happen. Evuiytcing you say
is right. :t's t✓i•At you don't s: y which is missing tiie key. I'm only one vote
sir.
Mr Fosmoen: And there art only three. there Commissioner.
Rev. Gibson: Huh?
Mr. Fosmoen: And there are only three of you there.
Mr. Plummer: Well, I L)(:ter lobby Father, because I can't lobby the middle chair.
Mayor Ferre: Well, look, -. think the point of it all is this J. L. The Off -Street
Parking Authority says that they 'lave the-ir limitations and they say it. They say
all we can say grace over Is t", t g,-Irage we are building;. If you want to build
g(ara6es, fine". 1.:�.� is wL�:t. Mitcht':11 1N"1l:Son tolu me. H� saiu "I don't
care. Now, I want to run them when you finish builcint, then. wit': your money,
we run them. That's what the Charter says". I said "fine, 'Sitche'11 if we can
figure out ways to build garages and we can build them that are self paying and
you agree with the design and you agree with all this stuff and we build them,
i 0
we will turn them over to you. Do you c:i.sagree w:th "Absolutely, not".
I said "now let's get.., let's be specific. We have a project, the project is
we got the Administration Building. The Adr,ini:.tration Building, is going to have
five hundred people in it. In addition to whic''+ t?ierE is parking requirements
in that f;eneral area. We want to build a ;:,ara,,,e there. will you build a Varage"?
"No, we don't want to build a garage". "Why not" "c.. ause our bonding capacity
is to tht maximum". "Well, will let us built; a Sara ;c;?" "Absolutely. You go
build a gcrage, you ;,,u out and justify i t, you go out anti ;'inance : -. , ou build
it to our specifications, you let us run it and we t,ot r,c -,rob1vms". 'No,., that
where we are at. Now, I commend to you as a practical... you are a very practical
common sense t,+iy, but the common sense way to approach tlnis thine IS cut this
thing from a hundred seventy-five, get down to thirty, get on with this project
and let's i,.et •n with the study because the study is the basis of the
financing.
Mr. Plummer: Maurice, I couldn't agree more.
Mayor Ferre: And if after that you want to deal with Mitchell Wolfson on the
financing of this thing, fine, 1 don't...
Mr. Plummer: But why not take the thirty thousand a.+d put it under the expertise
that's been in there for years of the i)ff-Street larking Authority?
Mayor Ferre: You, yourself s!: '. ::hat you were beginning to have some doubts about
that.
Air. Plur i(:.:r: :line, fine, I have �;ot some doubts, yes, but, until we change the
rules and until we eliminate the Comm.ittee... do you realize Maurice and I don't
know Mr. Kauffman's backgrou.+d, I enjoye4 talking with the man the other day,
but let me tell you somothing... how long has Mitchell Wolfson been down there?
Fifteen? TwL'nty years?
Mayor Fer-.e: .lummtl r, hey, listen 00 Ll.t througn all this why don't you just
change the ordinc;nce to read "design studies of park::_;;,, structures through the
Off -Street Parking, Authority for thirty thousand dollars".
Mr. Plummer: So move.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, then move it that way and you will have to deal with the
O£f-Street Parking Authority.
Mr. Plummer: %;at's exactly what I'm saying.
Mayor Ferre: 'iney will have to... well, we will have to do it that way. I'm sorry.
You are not coir,g to get the votes otherwise, Fosmoen and that's just the reality
of life and J,j:t deal with it.
Mr. Plummer: Yci want thirty thousand?
Mayor Ferre: 1S ih:3t .:hat it's going to be?
Mr. Fosmoen: That's fine. Yes, that's fine. Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Ferre:: Anu t',-'.n we are going to award this in Item 12 hopefully.
"Mr. Plununer: I have no problem.
Mayor Ferre: Ok.
Mr. Fosmoen: Mr. XaN,r, I have to ?Hake... if I may make a couple of other comments.
I don't know if I'm goin,,; to change J. L.'s... Commissioner Plummer's position or
not, but the Off-Strc,-t ?arking Au�'Iority has built parking garages. There are
many other opportut+:c:.Les t.o :a:te those garages pay for themselves by joint
development. T",ie Parking Authority's Chairman is on record as being
unalterably opposed to _,n; participation in any hind of joint development effort.
Mr. Plummer: We can change that Mr. Fosmoen.
Mr. Fosmoen: Now,... Commissioner,...
Mr. Plummer: We can change that.
59 APR 2 41980
Mr. Fosmoen: ... it hasn't been changed and I can tell you what the Chairperson
has said.
Mayor Ferre: As long Mitchell Wolfson is alive it will never change.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let me tell you something. I have never had a
problem of talking, with Mitchell Wolfson and I have alw<ys found him to be fair
and reasonable. And if you can convince that man that something is reasonable
I have al::iys found him willing to go along.
Mayor Ferre: J. L., I have already tried for the past five years. Mitchk�ll
Wolfson told mL. "as long as I am alive and as long as 1 am Chc:irman thert,• will
be no joint. development in the ground floor of or I don't lik, air right:. We
build garas,s. I don't want garages to be arr; t hind; but -;.-raF;es. 711er,, was
those who ac:cu< ? me of 'being a scciali.st and 1 made ecrrn-,itment buck twenty
years ago that o would only build garages tnut would not have conur,ercial space
in the l,raund floor to compete with the, �•ou .:17,01,,' witi1 the private sector and
we would never have buildings on top and that's the way I'm going to do it.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let me ask a question of the... if you can answer
quickly. Vho built the garage at Jackson Memorial Hospital".
Mr. Fosmoen: The County. Jackson Memorial liospit_L�.
Mr. Plummer: The Off -Street Authority?
Mayor Ferre: Not, th.: Off -Street Parking.
Mr. Fosmoen: Not the Off -Street Parking Authority, sir.
Mayor Ferre: That's right and there was big fight over that.
Mr. Plummer: Because they do have commercial use on the bottom floor.
Mr. Fosmoen: I know they do. I know they do and that's one of the ways of paying
for the parking garage.
Mayor Ferre: Precisely and Mitchell...
Mr. Flumr.er: Mr. Mayor, let me tell you something. I would agree with you in
what you say that prior to the twelve percent Mitchell Wolfson felt that way. It
just might be that after the twelve percent that they are paying...
Mavor F.-rrr: J. L., I asked him that since and he said "there is no way that I
will ever approve any usage of a parking gara,-e of tar than for parking". And that's...
I luvcr Mitchell Wolfson, but that's the past. I'm sorry. And as long as you
have that i,i_ne a brick wall in front of you, you are not going to mane any
head way. So I co::.:nend to you, I don't mind changing this to say that have
you know, cinder t,L? .-upervision of the Off• -Street Parking if you will, but... and
hopefully yuu can a :•, through Wolfson on this and then come back. And if you have
a problem coma beck., oK. And we may have to change it then.
Mr. Fosmoen: We will certainly give it a try.
Mayor Fr.rre: Airig",,-_ read the or,'.inance as amended then. It's move by Plummer,
is there second? Se;0:c3ed, ,:urther discussion? Ok, further discussion?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, 1 .could like arguing my point, but I think I like your
wording better "under the supervision of".
Mayor Ferre: Is that acceptable? "tinder supervision...
Mr. Plummer: I think that would be much better.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, :or the record reflect that the ordinance was corrected to
read "under the supervisi.o:: of".
Mr. Fosmoen: With the understnnc?ir_ -gat if a? run into a brick wall in terms of
trying to look at joint development projects to make the parking garages pay for
themselves.
Mayor Ferre: Sir, you will come back to this Commission and we will argue that
GO ,
and discuss it with Colonel Wolfson and the Board at that time. Further
discussion, call the roll.
AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED -
AN ORDTNANCF, kMENMEING SECTION 1 OF ORDINANCE NO.
9019, AI)OPI-F.D NOVEMBER 8, 1979, THE CAPITAL
IMPROVFMENT APPROPRIATIONS ORDINANCE FOR THF.
FISCAL YEAR ENDING SF.PTF� BFR 30, ' 978, BY XXEND-
DING PARAGRAPH V. (1970 AND 1978 S:OR?: SLr,ER
GENFRAL OBLIGA'i10:� BOND r`U?;D) C. (INEW ?R OJF.CTS)
TO i `;CREASE FUNDIN FOR NOvT}i 597H S'i i 7.tT 'PQROVE-
MY,NTS (8017) BY $41,300; ESTA7,I.I'�H:NG PARAGRAPH XI.
:`TAI., SPRINGS GOLF CO'CRSI: E'`TEr',PR SE t;_Z;D) TO FLT'D
MIAr.'.. SPRINGS GOLF COURSE Rl +'VA:'IGT OF GI:EENS IN
THE 4MO17NT OF $50,000; AND FsY FSTIABL1:"ri1NG PAi:A-
GRAPH Y.II CA'TTAI PR0,1KCTS TO YvND
FEASIBILITY AN, STt'DI .S i0R PARK:/NG STREC-
TURFS IN 71:'E GOV C1:NTLh t NI)r r !IiE SUPER-
VISION ER -
VISION OF TIIE OFT -S"C ;1EET PARKINC AUTH0RI":Y IN
THE AN,017\T OF $3G,000: CONTf:I\I`:G A RFPFALER
PROVTSIO; AtiJ A Si`;ERABTIi' Cl.AL'SE; A: D :. PENS-
ING WITI: 1'k} : OF ON TWO
SEPA-47'E" DAYS by A VOT : f: r :;OT '; S ': HA: FOtiR-
FIFTHS Or 'THE i`t'',R'. _i THE COMMISSION.
Was intr:r',:, d ;y Commissioner ?lum,ler and seconded by Commissioner Gibson
for adoption pursuant to S,?ction 4, Para,,raph (f) of the City Charter, dis-
pensing with t:je requirement of reading same. on two separate days by a vote
of not less than four -fifths of the members of the Commission -
AYES: Con-s-.issioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Vice -Mayor Lacasa.
k'hereupon the Commission on motior. of Commissioner Plummer and seconded by
Commissioner Gibson, adopted said ordinance by the following vote -
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Com^�issioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Vice -Maya: Lacasa.
SAID ORDINANCE WAS U::SIGNATED ORDINANCE NO. 9093
The City Atcornrsy rc,ad the ordinance into th public record and announced
.that copies were ava iabie to the members of the City Commission and copies were
available to t'a. ..u`; IL ir.
16. AF?P,;%'. 1 'NSI.' ,:
'. :: STI':)IHS, PROPUSI.D PARKING ,
PIi i.JEC FS TC.
Mayor Ferre: Now, on ift'm 12, would you move that one Plummer?
Mr. Plummer: Move it.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, Item.12 is moved, is there a second?
'i
Rev. Gibson: Second.
61 APR 2 41980
Mayor Ferre: Seconded by Father Gibson. Now, the resolution let the record
reflect is for thirty thousand dollars. Is that correct?
Mr. Plummer: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: Now, is there further discussion, call the roll.
Mr. Plummer: And it must be added for the Government Center.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, for the Government Center.
Mr. Plummer: ]ot in here.
Mayor Ferre: ."es, in the corrected memorandum...
Mr. Plummer: Ch, you mean the substitute? Yes, ok.
Mayor Ferre: Ok. Further discussion, call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer , who moved
its adoption:
RESOLU'TiON NO. �0-303
A RESOLUTION APDT'.','L,\U Tlli: MOST QUALIFIED CONSULTING
FIRM TO 11n0'� i.)L PROFESSIONAL. ARCS: 11�'iTURAl /1:',G:NE.EFING
SERVi;LS FOR TRAFFIC STUDIES, FEASIRIL.ITY STL'DIE'S AND
DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION PHASES CF PROPOSED PA'A'4,ING
PROJECTS; Al'."HORIZING THE CITY AV,."'AGLR Tu UNDE::TAKE
CONTRACT NEGOTIA'i'10'NS WITH Tllt: �'.:)S7' QI;ALII IFD FIRMS
ON A ROTATING INGEINT BASIS FOR PROPOSED
PROJECTS, i'F;OJ?:c u' -:' PRO?ECT, TO ARRI`.i: AT CONTILACTS
WHICH AIi, F:+IR, CC'`r'i7'ITI�'1: t,N` REA.S'��N.1i,;.1:; ALLOCATING
$30,000 FROM 'itli PAIRING CAP:'fAL h;;1.iL'c:;;'E. 1.'NiJ TO
COVER i'o?, COST OF SAID CONTRACTS AND A..;Y Nf-C1:SSARY
ANCILLARY S1:RVT'_:E CONTRACTS FOR IHE C(_)CER1�M1 F.NT CENTER;
AND DIR.CTING THE C17Y rL-tiAGER 10 PRESI]Nl TnE PROPOSED
CONTRACTS TO ThE CITY COMMISSION AT ThE. LARI.l't:ST
SCHEDULED NMEf-TING OF THE C0'-2%1IGSI0\ AFTEFl NEGOTIATION
OF SAID CONTRACTS, FOR APPROVAL OF 111E CO:CIIISSION PRIOR
TO EXECUTION THERE OF; FURTHER PROVIDING THAT THE STUDIES
FOR THH GOVERNMENT CENTER BE CONDUCTED UNDER THE SUPER-
VISION OF THE OFF-STREET PARKING AUTHORITY.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on file
in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being :,•conded by Coinnissioner Gibson, the resolution was passed and
adopted by the f.ol_,)wing vote:
AYES: Mr. Carollo, Mr. Plummer, Rev. Gibson and Mayor Ferre.
NOES: None.
-ABSENT: Vic..-`•1,!yCr 1.aca."".
17. DISCLSSIO;� ..IEM.: ACTUAL STUDY OF .5" INCREASE FOR
RETIRED F.MPLOYi ES - See Motion 80-306
Mayor Ferre: Alright, Father Gibson is so let's take up Item #G.
Mr. Grimm: Mr. Mayor ana merlbers of the Commission, Mr. Gunderson is here to
explain his report.
Mr. Gunderson: Members of the Commission, the report before you relates the
impact of cost of living adjustments to retirees as a problem and recites what
most of us already are familiar with and what you individually have already
agreed to and that is that there is a definite need to address the cost of living
62
+�Q
I
problem for retirees. In setting up a background for it, I won't recite the
fact that the need is well known. '!pie proble;,:-Ls, s whether or not we want to
address the need as one as a gun shot approach, by giving everyone a hall' a percent
increase for the first three hundred dollars cr whether want to index it or
not index or if we waat to address it ';,v at7ounts to those who are
in need of ac,;ition funds as a result of thecost of iivins; e=caiatiGn. V-,at I
have suggested in the memo is that we LddrvsL, the F rohi: x: by t,"-„ tins ti)c: amounts
necessary for those people who are in the most desperate needs for an increase.
Mr. Plummer: Fantastic Mr. Gunderson, except we were told that was ille,7.11,
that we could not...
Rev. Gibson: I didn't hear that J. L.
Mr. Plummer: T,.•t's i great approach which this Commission tried two years ago
as I recall and we were- told by the Law Department that you couldn't do that,
that it had to be uniformally applied. Excuse me, if I'm wrong.
(BACKGROUND COM?IENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Mr. Plummer: And we were: told that you cannot, you know, h.u.t so7,e and not others
and you had to uniformally apply it. Now, Mr. Alva f.;, are you familiar with
that?
Mr. Alvarez: 1 seem to recall sir. Yes, you are correct sir. It was three
years ago, but there was r.v payment to that respect.
Mr. Plummer: I'm Sorry Mr. Gunderson, but I just didn't want you to proceed.
Mr. Gunderson: Well, I'm not so certain that, that's correct.
Mr. Plummer: Oh.
Mr. Gunderson: No, no, everybody is tr.:i:.g to do it front recollection and that's
the problem associated with it. The definitive aspects of it you are correct
in that was a subject two years ago and about the uniform application of benefits
for retirees and t`lat was absol,iteiy Correct, but W:;.':RE'T or not and I :an't tell
you. Whether or not that way, specifically addressed to whether wc' coul_u use a
criteria cn ile;1 who was the ,cost needed, I don't think ihat was ever discussed.
The need is wei.l known, the problem is, that we do not have encu;,:l inforration
to address o x el ,C5 to that aj..)roal-.h. iti`;: t we Tuti to do is a--c-are :urthvr
informatloc. from the retirees by some means of a Sllrycy CO €;3in the necessary
information so t::at we can target the additional assistance. We are all for the
targeting approa,..n, but the probiem is how do you...
Yayor F,-!rr- : G'-., but now the problem is tix,u because wc- have been playing around
with t�,is nor., t-wo years and we really need Co give these people satisfaction
and ar. answ,2r -n on't mind... you know,... I get your point and you are
right, you have- tc ^W what you are dealing with, but i don't want to put these
people off :-o,. :<-r another study... we need to get on with Jim. So what
do you recc-T=i-nd :pow?
Mr. Gundersoni; kell, :'n, recommending the survey from :1 3i `'ferent ,q,—roach but
the time .. i.:L� ,: to o"t of necessity that we must delay. That time is
baste we ha,,-(, 3 4.2 mi Ll ior, dol 1 ar o: � iJlu , Il.. iP
oi,r head that ."'.S e:0i e , rat r" 1ved. Triat to t:m1hark u,)on r-,--s we {. 1 " &;:d u
hundred 101lars additional more each year which incrF:3ses our
unfunded lial,-'lity a .'_.c":, -x hunu~c-d thousand dol!L-,' . So we cannot resolve...
if 4L have not re.sclvcu t,:c : nitial question as to how ir-J :i do we actually have
to pay in the retirei.ieift system, how can we exacerbate the problem by adding to
it?
Mayor Ferre: And what... and how 'Long would it take for us to find that answer?
Mr. Gunderson: I think .,e can find it in six weeks.
Mayor Ferre: I don't think there is anything we can do until then. Father
Gibson?
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, I know we have to get facts, but gentlemen, you know,
everyday I live I get disturbed. You see tr,ose men, tomorrow isn't promised them.
You think you have tomorrow, ok. What disturbs me is some of them have a bleak
out look for tomorrow while you and I have it bright. I... it pains me, it pains
4 190 8
oe
me. Plummer, I just think we need to get a th,]L in six weeks time
either we are going to do it in the pot or bet off it. Now, you know, I don't
want to be foolish and do what I want to do without facts, but man, two years?
Some of those people will... some of them may never see that six wcelr:s, you know.
And it's so easy, so easy as long as Theodore has his to not be worried about
anybody else. And Mr. Gunderson, I hear what you say, but it doesn't stop my
heart from bleeding.
Mr. Gunderson: Father, let me assist you anti I fool as deeply about it as you
do, becav-;e there are people who genuinely need that. There is soma assistance
for all ;.hose: who are on social security that are going to get a 4.4 increase
effective June 1st. Now, to the extent to which those people are in
this group or -xcluded will definitely determine where the impact rest and to
that extent tl;,,t those are not... of course, movement in this area im.•nediately
would be a iu , <:ssity.
Mr. Plummer: other?
Rev. Gibson: Well, I just feel that...
Mr. Plummer: Father, let me tell you something. The greatest issue has not been
adciresseci. Now, you know, the greatest issue still remains regardiy of what you give
the retirees. VIiere is the money coming from? Now, we czn do -.tudies that say
anything we want to say, but somebody has , of tc answer the biggy.
The bi;,,gy i,- where is the r;ortey cvnu.:«. .ro• :' You know, uvcry time wr go to the
Adminlstrat.;oii, we hear poor moot!,, '.ham l'cn.>lCII Bwirds 4'le!i, r .t'3 e;.f1Sl'l
or not selfish Ilt:':e voted , ., yin', Lhat the coney not come from -,-1 ee ^.en(,10i1, the
portfolio and ,.sand the reasoning, but I (.an und,21-star,d that it's
somewhat se'lft. .. lut Father let me to 11 :ou ncrt> inth,_ bottoii: line is still
if we pas:- ,i r,..ncred thousand, a hundred f: ty thousand or two hun. rcd thousand,
where is the ❑.(-)nev coming from? I would rather today... let ,;,e tell you what I
wo+ild ratter do. would rather charge the administration today to come back with
an answer :in ;ix weeks telling me...
(BACKGRoi'\D Ci,,'MI-'N'_' OFF Tt:i: PL'LLIC RECORD)
M:. PIurunur: Well, Tony you shake your head, ok. I'm trying to help Tony, I'm
not trying to hurt you. I would rather the administration come back in six weeks
and say to me "C:orm:^issioner... or the Commission for us to generate two hundred
thousanci•lollar6 i7ur the retirees here is where it can come from and what must
give". Then 1 can deal. When I know where the money is coming from with the
problem. Today the problem... if I got the answer today I still don't have the
full answer.
Mr. I.acasa: I would like to say this that we are really in bad trouble. When
we have to be discussing a question of that fraction that the retirees are
requiring when this Country is acknowledging the fact that people just cannot
make it. low income people with fixed incomes just cannot make it and the social
security chec':s <_re going up fourteen percent. Fourteen percent-sterdciy on the
paper ant' tt,'..- i. .n acknowledgement of a reality and that is that people, low
income people with fix income just cannot make it. And here w,? have that the
retirees of L,tr Cit: :if Miami are asking for affc_ctio of a point and we cannot
give it to them. ',. •. ;r3 rstand J. L. that to five it w- 1,avv to ltcive it and that
I undersLai.c. Wt:at 1 7oul.d ask the administration that yc„ ;;ec,, 1.c go out o2 your
way so We can :inc; :n;:.se monies among the many thousand: of doll&rs that from
time to time appear here and there when the administration see fit that they
do appear.
Mayor. Ferre: I'm going t,) have tc leave now, so I will leave the meeting in your
hands. I don't think tr+ere is anything we can do today,
Mr. Plummc,r: Well, Mr. �t;.ycr, 1 want to put one thing or, the record before the
you know, thing starts hittin,,- Y u know, it w-iz, funny that yesterday the State
Legislature passed L bill giving a minimum of three 1,undred dollars a month raise
to any retired State with fifteen years of service making under a
thousand a month. -5, thousand a month.
Mayor Ferre: Listen J. I'm going to have to leave can I kind of bring this
to either a conclusion because I would like to see on Item 21 and I want to vote
on it before I leave.
l�`t lyCKJ
-----------
18. AUTHORIZE CITY MANAGER TO EXECUTE ADDENDUM TO COIJTRACT WITH
MARII.E STADIUMS ENTERPRISES, INC.
Mayor Ferre: Is there any controversy on item twenty-one? Does
anybody have any problems with it?
Mr. Grimm: No, sir.
Mr. Lacasa: I move.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Lacasa moves.
Father Gibson: I want to second but I have a concern in that agreement,
Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Tell me what that is.
Father Gibson: Gentlemen, please pardon me for one minute. Number
twenty-nine in that agreement disturbs me. Sir, come up here. Take
the mike. Twenty-nine disturbs me and I just don't think we can
afford to...
Mayor Ferre: Do you mean twenty-one?
Father Gibson: No, in his contractual agreement there is number twenty-nine.
Mr. Eugene Hancock: Number twenty-nine states my lease can be
cancelled with six months notice. I'm getting ready to spend over
one "- 6 dollars...
Father Gibson: You just can't do that to a man, have a man spend that
kind of money and say, give him a six months cancellation. Either
strike the cancellation, or, that's what you've done in other contracts.
Why don't you do the same thing with him? I want to move it with
the striking of number twenty-nine.
Mr. Lacasa: I withdraw my motion and second Father Gibson's motion.
Father Gibson: All right. Look, no,no, no. Go ahead and make the
motion...
Mr. Lacasa: And you amend it.
Father Gibson: Yes.
~ Mr. Lacasa: I'll accept the amendment.
Father Gibson: Yes, that you strike the cancellation clause?
Mayor Ferre: Is that a problem?
Father Gibson: No, he's agreed to that.
Mayor Ferre: Further discussion? All right, call the roll.
(BACKGROUND COMMENTS OFF,THE.PUBLIC RECORD)
IST
APR Z4ft
r
51
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Lacasa,
who moved its adoptions
RESOLUTION NO. 80-304
A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY ?W AGER TO EXECUTE
Ah AllENDUM TO A CONCESSION AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
CITY AND MARINE STADIUM ENTERPRISES, INC., DATED
MAY 19, 1978, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS AND
CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE ATTACHED AGREEMENT
(:Ier,, follows body of resolution, omitted here and on file
in the Office of the City Clerk).
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Gibson, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Vice -Mayor Arm?nlo Lacasa
Mayor Mauri=e A. Ferre
NOES: None
FOLLOWING ROLL CALL:
Mr. Grimm: Mr. Mayor, I'm sure that the provision that he's talking
about is a provision that exists in the existing lease because it's not
part of the amendment. We are extending the original agreement until
1993, ten years. Father, before we did that, may ve have an opportunity
to see what the provisions of that cancellation are? I'm sure, for
All I for some reason that Mr. Hancock did something
that was against City policy.
Mr. Hancock: No, that's still in there.
'•- -- - - •,lease?
Father Gilson: Please. I just can't see a man being wiped out.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Jennings, this is your baileywick?
Mr. Jennings: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plumme;: it this same clause in the marina? What is that marina
next door?
Mr. Jennings: (INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: The marina next door, what's the name of the operator?
Mr. Jennings: Ravb_n.
Mr. Plummer: Raybun. Is it in his contract?
Mr. Grimm: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, I would have no problem
with that because, you must keep in mind, that when this agreement
was it Mus for the purpose of selling hotdogs, not
for the purpose of parking boats, so I have no problem with that.
Mayor Ferre: Further discussion?
Father Gibson: All right. So we want to strike it.
�0s
ist , �9� LI 'Z QU
19. AU.RD CONTNACLS PI:CFESSiOSAL SERVIC:i APFRA1tini.1 Uh M:i.A.111
1AARI.NE Tr1DIL'`1 CO?,iPLEX.
Mavor Ferre: Alr;bht, now 22, riK.ht^. Alright, Plurr.,er are you mcvin€ 22?
Lacasa nov,.-s ZZ ancl Gic,son seconds, further discussion? It's related to 21.
Further discu�islon, call the roll.
ON ROLL CALL:
Mr. Ongie: itiz. Plummer, Item 22.
Mr. Plummer: That's on the appraisals?
Mr. Ongie: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Are does same rules applying to Dinner Key Marina and to Miamarina?
Mr. Grimm: I don't know who to answer that Commissioner because you only...
Mr. Plummer: It's either "yes" or "no".
Mr. Grimm: Well, I do:,'t know because you are only voting; on this one and I don't
know what the o~I,;: one says. So I can't give you an intelligent answer.
Mr. Plummer: tr'ell, the answer is... I would like an answer simple. Who does know?
Mr. Grimm: I don't.
Mr. Plummer: Let's see we have got about three hundred thirty thousand dollars
worth of expert help over here.
Mr. Carollo: A little more than that I think, but...
Mr. Plu.xrer: Gh, I'm not counting Mr. Gary and Mr. Jennings...
Mr. Grimm: Do you have a specific provision that you are talking about?
Mr. Plummf.r: Well, all I'm asking is, is this contract which you are proposing in
Item 22 the same type of professior_al service to conduct appraisals as applied to the
Dinner Key Marina and Miamarina?
Mayor Ferrc.: I would imagine the answer has to be...
Mr. Fosmoen: The answer is no.
Mr. Plummer: Tho ensver is no. Ahh, we are playing by different ballgame, then
I have to vote "no". You are not playing fair.
-Mr. Fosmoen: No, we are playing fair.
Mr. Gunderson: ::at's a management contract that you are...
Mayor Ferre: Talking about apples and oranges Plummer.
Mr. Plummer: No, no, uo, you are trying to make fruit salad.
Mayor Ferre: One is a lease. One is a lease and the other is a management contract.
Mr. Plummer: No.
Mayor Ferre: That's 1,ku a n airplane and a motorcycle.
Mr. Grimm: Mr. M.,,yor, ? caa answer the Commissioner's question this way.
The type of appraisal that ve 1r geLtin;; here. is to confer:~, with the waterfront
ordinances and with the direction ti;at this Commission place's on us. Rc::nember we
had already gone out for proposals. The Co:mission directed us to increase the
scope of that proposal to include that additional area in the marine stadium. We
have done that. I suggest to you sir that
that if you have- a problem with the appraisals
v I
1e., r
for Dinner Key that you bring it up at the time of Dinner Key.
Mr. Plununer: Well, Mr. Grimm, you are, absolutely right alright and I'm all in favor
of what you are loin; here in Item 22 <,ne, I'm going to vote favorably, but I just
wanted to male notation for the record that we are playing by different rules
for different
Mr.
RESOLUTION NO. 80-305
A rd SOLUTION A ,VC)IAG CONTRACTS FOR
PROFESSI(:)���i. SERVICES TO CONDUCT
APP'.ViISALS Or 711E iilAMI MAIiIN-L
STADIUA'i CO?:YLFX Tu S!,A(-,-: :i.ACr, , A".-'
MA1 APPRAISAi. '
�uliuws body of resolution, omitted here and on
;:ile in the Office of the City Clerk).
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Gibson, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
CO,X,iss inner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: Nonc.
I'''I'AF l.rf .' T11}: AT 6:25)
�5. Di?'?ACT 'DYi"�ISTI:' ON Tip REPORT BY MAY 8, 1980 ON SOURCE OF
F " ;` :°Y; r.):? .5i. IIN, CKEASI, FOR RETIRED EMPLOYEES.
Mr. Ylum;;..:: Xc you are recognized sir.
Mr. Teems:
^,: - -!,.:. ..an,
reason I'm standing up here I guess is because
some of ties:
z:. c. n...
well, they have gotten to me. They have been
mere for ci
<<t
lei., Let me read you a motion made by this
Commission
in
Ju,ie cf
1.9 o, June 22nd. (MR. TFEMS READS MOTION PASSED
IN MIF 22,
19?'';.
.L \,'as it,.hine
of 1978. Today is 1980. This administration
has screwed
ai-ot!ni
arcu,) I and screwed around with this thing for a
year and a
hal. 'o
twtI 11LIA7.
Anu I fully agree with you Mr. Plummer, you know,
they have -It to 1 a %.n,•re b-:,, money iE and they havEn't done it yet and I
don't believe think it's time to either say yes or no,
that's all. 1;ot to ti.-IA these ;People yes or no. It's not human to have
them con: back n-re ar and half. And it's time somebody did something
to get these people .. o: cn: mark.
Mr. Plimoi:r: You make a -„,-ici, and A. will second it. Don, I couldn't agree with
you more.
91
Rev. Gibson: I think everybody knows how I feel man.
Mr. Tony Wilcox: Commission, if you give us this raise... If a man has been on
five years he gets $7.50 a month. If a man has been on for ten years he gets
$15.00 a months. If the man has been on for fifteen years he gets $22.50 month
1�ou
A
and for twenty years $30.00 a monti,. Mat is pec,nuts. i�o use in coming and telling
you what the cost of living is gone up, You know w1hat. it's €,oae up. And this
thing has been on tiie agenda a half a dozen times and ;he administration has
taken it off. They are going to tell you every tine we come ;-,,.,re there is no
money. They have never said there is any honey. The first raise we got they
said they didn't have any money and ti.ey .:o have tt:e money. They can find the
money. Let's don't kid ourselves. These people need ic. ney.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Fosmoen, what is the ar,:uu;,t (): r.:oney... or Mr. Gunderson, whichever.
The proposal made: by them would cost how nany dollars?
Mr. Gunderson: The proposal, would cost a hundret-2 ninety thousand dollars each and
every year. It would increase your unfunded liability by one million six hundred
thousand.
Mr. Plummer. No, sir. Now, that's... let's play fair. That's if the money were
to be paid from the pension fund.
Mr. Gunderson: No, there is no relevance at all..
Mr. Plummer: Well, how do you come with an unfunded liability?
Mr. Gunderson: Because you are not paying for th, entire benefit at one time, you
are spreading it over the remaining thirty-two years. That's how come.
Mr. Plumr;er: But no, sir tip ... you are wrong. This money is...
Mr. Gunder ,on: tip, I'm not wrong.
Mr. Teens: Mr. Plummer, he is right if you want to get technical about it. What
he is saying is that you are going to have to pay the hundred ninety thousand dollars
for so many years. Well, that's natural. That's normal, but that's not really
creating an unfunded liability, you are right.
Mr. Plu-uner.: Ti:at's riot the point Don. That's not right. We are passing it by
a one year basi-,. 71iis is not an ongoing basis.
Mr. Gunderson.: But that the ongoing amount remains the increase in their salary
for perpetuity.
Mr. Plummer: Well, I...
Mr. Cox: Mr. Plummer, it's always going to cost money, Commissioners, and we need
the money. These people need the money.
Mr. Plunaner: The unfunded liability would be towards the general fund.
Mr. Cox: These people that are opposing us are going to get large pensions.
Mr. Plummer: n}r , no. Oh, no.
Mr. Cox: These people that are opposing us are going to get large pension.
Mr. Gary: Well, y(li are going to separate it out from the pension?
Mr. Plummer: Su*,- I'm going to separate it out from the pension fund. We will
pay it out of rLO �,eneral. fund.
Mr. Gunderson: You na>• everytnin out of the general fund because there is only
one source. When y.:u lock at the taxes where do they come from? Alright, so
that's a truism no matter what .,ou say.
Mr. Plummer: brtLl, : don't think you can touch the pension fund.
Mr. Gunderson: Woll, che;, are not. We are not proposing to touch... to draw down
on the trust. You, .,c �',ic actuaries wouldn't let you draw down on the trust.
Rev. Gibson: Well, whit ha,,pans if you have fifty people this year and you have
twenty-five ne— yc-ar? . ,
Mr. Gunderson: That's an actuarial pro-e ction, yes, sir and that's the very thing
that the actuary has come up with in his projection. In other words, he determines
the turnover ratios related to those who are certain ages ana their mortality and
as a result he comes up with the computation that I have just given you.
89 A r R G It 190001
Mr. Tuews: acv. Gibson, can 1 anc;wc_.' ..:.it CIuur tioL a little: bit for your? He is
right, but your pay back of a hunclr.crd a,lc, whatc%,ur he "id a year is nainf; to
pay that off. So there is really y;oi.lp, to be creatin,; no unfunded liability.
When that man dies he is going; to be 1,aia in full. T}lc :Infunded li,ibilitv he
is spea'.<inc` of is a hrojecte unfunded liability over the years that the man
might lve, but you are going to be paying that back year after year after year
at a hundred nir,ty some thousand a year.
Mr. Carollo: '.r l:,lncicrson?
Mr. Gun,!orsc,o: "oc t'lirty—two years and that's not accurate.
Mr. Tee,li: ;e , there is nobody here going to live thirty—two years.
Mr. Lacas:;: me a moment. What I don't see is that we are getting any place
in this dit- +n on this particular time. I would suggest and I will entertain
a motion on ;1. ` ., that rathc r because- yc)u Tony, you have a very g ooC. point. This
is about tho :-d or fourtl: t >T,c L.T',at this. itc:ri has bean deferred and we... we
don't set' ti. f ;nd of lt. 'kl& :1k.'St i..iL" Cor.mi.;;si01, irweN ing is within ten days from
today. I wain l �u1,;,1 �t that tier a(:LlLiliStration come with a plan, a positive plan
of how art? iou ,;c,1n„ to try tc finr.. the Trolley or rather than to tn;, to find the
clone; fc t'. i ,... c;r chc funding of ti,�s .5%. If �ny then we
;:
satisf._..tc: ttlull .-1- W. i J, tlil.t• ii7r t' _ t.,, to take a
cecis_.,n I ba:;i:r,i1y might r-e Jn ri z:in t'r:c n,:,tration to find the money
and ge: iL .._...... aric in, ,ise and that is as far as I see
that We can :or 1 dc.c.' lv;_ -,irij else Tiiny, that will ht wined by
cont,'M._'n'_'_ L.ht is cussi.on particular point, because o.)viouSly they are
not ready. They ar ::.L ,--cepared and we can do nothing. We cannot take any
action taci.l'; .
Rev. Gib:,oa: T. wol;ld like to make a motion directing the administration to come
back ;riving us po, i.tive solution to the problem.
Mr. Gars•: :.ay Corrrtlissione.r Plummer, made an appropriate comment, you
know, if ,.!e dc,c de --o do snm:-thing here we are going to have to forego something
Else. Ar.c: I '1._s,S we '+:oul,d he purtinj: ?urselves in t:it' position; of, you know, What's
pJSlt'_:?e, `nit. t',1.:K yULI know, the UJ,_`Lit thin- to do is we the City Administration
Or you shLou'_ct ;, V� iIs an C' portunity to look at this problem in view Oi the current
budget and tl:c n+_ r:t lr; t)ud�;et, because I think to do... not to do that you are
tall' C.,"`)ortunity of seeir..E what our "i)r )biE are nob' Fin:'. what our proolezis
look ..Kc l ,.ell'.. dill.! t'.l `R we i'�'i rdPlyl' lI t::�' u^ zt well wh1'... if I
�." 'r-nowi? W}l..i. ..:iS 1 t"U f. p t ;. (iOWIl L;IQ. line 1 kYh.11ii :i,-L tilave '.ranter: this.
ri ;'-,t now. As know, the. int lat.ion rate is eighte.cn percent. You know, we are
lirlited ut,.- taxes. You know, ttiin ;s aren't going tc look goo' in the future.
So I uoulc: Fula, LT -'Ur we look at this in terms of thce overall buc'_get for this
year and next _:car. Now, I think we will bu ready_ to do that. I would say within
about t1hr.. e we
Mr. Pl.um,:,cr: .`ot ten days.
Nor. T..,acusa. Try .. ake it in ten days Howard. I think that we can make it in
ten days.
Mr. Gary: .'(. wil.1 try.
Mr. Lacas., . get L 1erle.r..
Mr. Teerr:s: ?:'. Lac:".: , appreciate that and I just hope... this is about the
second ei P"`iiru IJministc:1tion has been directed to do something like this
and they 1ixJL..-i't. done J; y��L. I hope you are right this time.
Mr. Carolln: T'ioti t`.,".y w: tl <,o it this time.
Mr. Ongie: 1•;r i.ac...;a':
Mr. Lacasa: Yes,
Mr. O 1;iL: The last moti.-)r. I believe was made by Father and we need a second and
we should call the roll on that motion.
Mr. Lacasa: Please call the roll.
%Q
Wi
l
Mr. Ongie: Who seconded?
Mr. Carollo: Second.
Mr. Ongie: Roll call...
The following motion was introduced by Cormissioner Gibson, who moved its
adoption:
MOTION NO. 80-306
k MOTION DIRECTING THE CITY ADMINISTRATION TO STUDY
THE PROBLEM OF FUN DINC A .5% INCREASE FOR CITY OF
MTMII RETIREES, AN-D TO COME BACK TO T] E CITY COMMIS -
`..,ON WITH A PODiTIVE SOL;TION' TO THE PROBLEM NO LATER
dAN MAY 8, 19,40.
Upon being seconded by Con-rAssioner Carollo, the motion was passed and
by the following, vote:
AYES: Mr. Carollo, Mr. Plummer, Rev. Gibson and Vice -Mayor Lacasa.
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Mayor Ferre.
21. PUBLIC HEARING: Oi),TECTIONS TO ACl'i.PT1�CE tc`r CO`� i_EiL'D CCi`;Sf'.:LC"I'IG\
CITY WI T, S. S. ..X' i.'TiC"NS-
"<''� FLAChL r SIR"Li- : �]Nl.-RUNE
Mayor F,.rre: Lett tF:2': 4:it.[ it..::n '' 1.S t'll''i there Oli : tt9.' ; 8, this is
the 2:20 puhlic fiCarin- ai«i are tncre any objectors, to the City Wide S. S. Extension
improvements, Flagler Street Sr-5458-C, if not is therc a motion?
Rev. C:.bson: Move.
Mayor Ferre: Father Gibson moves, Mr. Carollo seconds accepting the completed work
performed by P. N. M. Corporation at a total cost of three hundred sixteen thousand
eleven dollars three cents, further discussion, call the roll on Item 8.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Gibson, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-307
A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE COMPLETED WORK
PEfi1-70iP•*.D BY P.N.M. CORPORATION' AT A TOTAL
COST OF $31�,011.03 FOR niF CITY WIDE
SANI T ARt S i:trr R F.',:TENS IONS INTROVED`TNT-
FLAvi.I:R S7i'.EF.T I", i-HE CITY WIDE SANITARY
SEW_'' L�:T}.:,.S IONS IMPi, OVEMEN T - FL.AGLF R
STREET iISTRiCT SR-5458_C (centerline
sewer).
(Here follows hody of resolution, omitted here and on
file in ti; Otficu of thr! City Clerk).
Upon being seconded by ConLmiscioner Carollo, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Comr.-issic;ner Joe Carollo
C�rtrassioner J. I.. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Re.,.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice-:L. Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
''71
APR 2 41980
_' 1.Y'KYi�'SP'�,:.S�.y�•{IYit.4�C.�LYiIUY�..�:.NiA�. i�ii�r..iL }�'r'\1.... - "�iL+r.
•r• ..'s -
ya Ali). S1:C. ?,jscFjj.,%'�EOI;S PP,ii ii 7TS
Mayor Ferre:
Cn Ti,,r,:
9 and it is an ordinance
on first and second reading.
Are there ...1.;
prco lcros
with this? Plu=-,er do
you have any probier,;s with 9?
Mr. Carollo:
`cove it.
Mayor Ferre:
i"ixight,
it's moved by Carollo,
seconded by Gibson, further
discussion.. .
Mr. Plumner:
i:.,, no,
no, wait a minute, wait
a minute. This is Item 9?
Mayor Ferre: Ives, sir.
Mr. Plummer. Oii, no. Oh, no. Mr. Carollo, read it again.
Mr. Cai:allo: hold cn Mr. Mayor, I withdraw that i.,.ion.
Mayor ferre. Gk.
Mr. Carollo: TI)e F• ::'. ,part of this where they hit, this time around. We have
been niIly ter .,c.6i, Co: mission Mieeti.ng after Commission Meeting and ever time we
have a new morn,-,ssiuner Meeting this is presented in a different form. I would
hope t'Eat r".lc onc.o and for all decides in which form he wants to
present this t.-) ch` administration.
MLayur Ferre: 1 thought you have this worked out.
Mr. Pi:.:;Tmvr. ;.r. :a.. :r, I...
Mayor Ferre; Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, J. L. Alright, J. L., as I
assume what yo+I are concerned with is the new administration buildings...
Mr. T1iU1PL,;Lr: 'iliat's what I was going to do is move it excluding "C".
Mayor Ferre: Ok, now do you have any problems with anything but "C" Joe?
Mr. Carollo: No, that's fine. "C" is the one I have the problem with.
Mayor Ferri: Ok. Alright, and do you have any problems with anything but "C"
P',.ummer?
Mr. Plummer: ,,o, sir, I moved it excluding "C".
Ndyor Fe-::u:
Now, wait a minute,
yesterday I asked you. I said Mr.
C;rimnl for t'.ir,.e
me( , _ ,,
in a row we have not:
been able to pass the furniture in
the new admi.n�.-.tratlo•...
.` mean and I'In. sorry, in the Accounting Offic(- here and
o•:.,-1
cUI your problems
with Mr. Carol to and with Mr. Plummer
1r,d you :,..i j
'',:i,, • V- Yt_c;,::cerneu
:' .nit the r)ension
Plan and tint. punsi.ori system
;Ind irc ^..; ,..,
:,., ..':
a.: `+een w� n,d out"
and I said "then there is no problems
with P0.:r.—,r
.: :,-,rc: "'
a:. you said "I don't
think so".
Yr. Criamt. 11:._, y . i t, I o:dr.'t... I thought whin I ulawered the question
as to whetiu r the r:: ;c)n . ce u.-.s going to be that, that put this to bed, but
obviously 1 w.I-� 1)0t...
'.river F rr-: r'... -•ier w:�.Il�i you just state for the record and so that I caa
understand becatise *h_., is r'.It fourth time you have turned this down or the third time.
w",,jat is it yk)u objEct Y011 jest don't want any furniture at all?
Mr. Pl,",n6ocr: Mr. Mayor, I ..;n in abjection to the spending of sore two hundred forty
tiuous,,nd dollars. Ok, so in ether wards it hay :,;,thing to do with anything but
that?
Mr. Plummer: No, sir.
"2
C
Mayor Ferre: Ok. And what's your objection?
Mr. Carollo: I think he has expressed it clear enough.
Mayor Ferre: Is that it? Ok.
Mr. Carollo: I want t.o see them trim that to a realistical figure.
Mayor Ferre: Ok. Howard do you want to say anything about it?
Mr. Gary: The only thing I would like to say is that the people in the Finance
Department and I gua_ss most of you have been back there are working in deplorable
conditions ;ind 1 think it has a lot to do with the output and I would hope that
the City Commi::ion would feel honored to pass this appropriation.
Mr. Carollo: u know, Mr. Gary I have been here for six months anc finally I have
been getting so._furniture t!iat was badly neeued in by office:. 1 2ic.n't even
have chairs or enough desks foe my staff to work f rc,s.. Now, L,11 of tl-,e :sudden just
becausr- their are people that are with grace with Goc, the City Manager :,-gat we
are to pas: whatever amount cf moncy the,, like without quest oning it. Well, you
are wrong, and the City Manager is wror.,, and if he Lh.'nks rh,o .L� _,ing to just
say "des" to whatever God wants, he h�, got bomethin�'. elEL. ..'.i)i.. .;" to hint.
Mr. Gary: I won', arkuc- that point, ,•,y on".-,, ; j.at....
Mr. Carollo; But we are ��' ..: ,t, %ere with liioney taut the taxpayers worked very
hard to get to thi_ Cit;. Now, I know Mr. Grassie probably does not really
understand the ..niug of hard work, but there is a heck of a lot of people in
this City that pay all the salaries here that do realize that sir.
Mayor Ferre: Alrig'it, Plummer moves Item 9 with the exception of "C", is there
a second to that?
Mr. Carollo: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Second, is there further discussion?
Mr. Alvarez: Which portion on the title?
Mayor Ferre: "C", new City Administration Building furnishings.
Mr. Alvarez: That is not shown on the ordinance sir.
Mr. Grimm: Mr. Mayor, it's a mistake on your agenda, but what both Commissioners
are talking about are the renovations to this building and that's what they are
objecting to and that's what the ordinance really says.
Mayor Ferre: Wcl;, where is it? Show trim in the ordinance so he can cut it out.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Grimm, you are half right sir. What I'm opposed to is the...
Well, now the figur has gone up again in this item.
_Mr. Grimm: No, sir.
Mr. Plummet: A hundred eighty-one thousand dollars.
Mr. Grimm: Yes, Sir.
Mr. Plummer: That's : uew figure. The old one was one seventy-four. You are half
right Mr. Grimn;. I'm op--osed to this which is portioned on the agenda which is the
renovations and another eighty thousand dollars which is furniture and : think
it should be interestinG to mote for the record that the reason the administration
is pushing so hard to get this passed is the tact that they ordered it before
getting City Cummision, approval.
Mayor Ferre: Is that correct?
Mr. Grimm: That's not correct.
Mr. Plummer: The furniture is not ordered?
Mr. Grimm: Not for this building, no sir.
'� , r, R e, 4 1980
Ar or
Mr. Plummer: I always stand corrected.
Mayor Ferre: You do again.
Mr. Plummer: But I will go back and check it.
Mayor Ferre: Alrisit, read the ordinance as corrected then, please. Alright,
further dl.;cussiun on first reading as amended, call the roll.
AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED -
A" OF:iINPLNCE XkSENDING SECTION 1 OF ORDINANCE
NO. . _.9, ADOPTFD NOVEMBER 8. 1.979, THE
CAPI', `L I2TROVEMFNTS APPROPRIATIONS ORDINANCE
FOR THE FISCAL, YEAR F NDING Si PTF* iF'? 30, 1980,
AS A,a,1;0ED, BY INCREASING till: APt'RGP ..IATIONS
FOR II.b.9. WEST TRAIL 1`PROVI'.-
MENTS : Y $ 321 , 500; VI . C. 3. '11OAT DOCKS-MdRNING-
SIDE/LEGLO\ PARKS BY $20,000; VL,ii.5. 'ACOLCY-
12TH AVE'"CK PARK; B'i $300,400;
VI. B.21. ";i\(, PARKS FOR 'i.'i'.. i):... i.T
ING X.B.I. (d) V11IilCLF 'MAINTENANCE
DEPARTMI'INT, H'. _`.'.� Lid IPNiF:N; '."i�IN1'I:NA\CE DIVi-
SION 1\ 1tii. A.` C."N7 OF
$4c?; ,600 AN,) REPLACi\G SAID A'.0VN I
FLOKIDn PL)h .R A;•;D LIGHT FRA`:CHISE
(X.B.1. (c) ; CONTAINING 1. RF'."EAi.EF.. PFOVI-
SION AND A SEVr:c; 1.i'ILII CL:,liSF:; AN::., DISPENS-
ING WI'iH TliE RLQUIFU:MENT OI ?Z_ AiiI\G S ON
TWO SFPAP- TI: DAYS BY A VOTE OF NOT THAN
FOUR-FIFIIIS OF TtiE ,ii:,'. Lr.S "i iilt C IISSION.
Was introduced by Cor..^.isr:.icn r 11:urLmer any seconded by Commissioner Carollofor
adoption pur-,u+int to Section 4, Para,rr�ph (f o: the City Charter dispensing
with the recuirement of reading sar..c or: twc� s,.,parate days by a vote of
not less than four -fifths of the mcr)>)ors of the Ccw,mission-
AYES: Commi S51 Jnk r Joc• Carol to
Commissioner J. L. Plu-..imer, .ir.
Commissioner (Rev.) ineocore R. Gibson
Vice -`:aver Armando L.acasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
Whereupon the Commission on motion of Commissioner Plummer and
seconded by Concili�,sioner Carollo, adopted said ordinance by the following
vote -
AYES: Comrissione•r Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plui-uner, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vicc,-Mavor Armando Lacasa
Mav:,T. `:aurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
SAID ORDINANCE WAS DESIG",A':F:D ORDINANCE NO. 9094
The City d'ittor.r,c.y re.u6 the oeciinance into the public record and
announctrd tt:at. cop' 1,!ere available to the members of the City Commission
and copies were avail,`)le to the public.
0 a
Mayor Ferre: Now, I move you sir, that the portion that was deleted Prow this
be put on the agenda for discussion tomorrow.
Rev. Gibson: I second.
Mr. Lacasa: We have a motion and we have a second, further discussion, call the
roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Ferre, who
moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 80-308
% MOTION DIRECTING THE CITY ',-LANAGLR TO PLACE ON THE
AGENDA OF APRIL 25, 1980 -TIE MATTER OF AMENDING SECTION
1 OF ORDINANCE 9019 TO [ESTABLISH t, PROJECT ENTITLED
"RENOVATION OF GENERAL ACCOUNTING."
Upon being seconder by CoiTnissioner Gibson, the motion was passed and
adopted by the following vote -
AYES: Rev. Gibson, Vicc-Mayor Lacasa and Mayor Ferre.
NOES: Mr. Carollo and Mr. Plummer.
ABSENT: Prone.
21. FIRST & SLCOND READING ORDINA�,CL: 1NCREASL APPROPRIATION TO
PLANNING & ZO-ING BOARDS A7-`IINISY'OO .TION
Printing & Ma-lin of 7,onlnh llcarin; notices
Mayor Ferre: h;rig; :t, we ore now on Item i,`10 which is an ordlnanc., first
and st_conci-F_a3:.;g amending Sectioi-is 1 and 5 of ordinance 9000 the annual
appropriation ordinance. Anybody have any problems with that one': Plummer
yoi: got any problems with that?
Mr. PIimaior: The...
Mayor Ferre: Ten.
Mr. Plummer: No, sir I have no problem.
Mayor Ferre: Plummer moves, is there a second?
Mr. Lacasa: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Lacasa seconds, further discussion? Anybody have any problems
with this? Read t,ie ordinance. Call the roll.
AN ORDINANCE F�7111TI.Li.-
AN ORDIN/LNC�. A,"T:NDING SECTIONS 1 AND 5 OF
ORDINANCE: :1). 9,,00, ADOPTED OCTOBER 17, 1979, THE
ANNL'Al. APP ()Pnl ATIONS ORDINANCE FOR THE FISCAL
YEAR END;.. (� Sr.P T i 3(i, ': �,30, AS AMENDFD; BY
INCREASI,,C, . F A1'r..:1)RIAi ')N -'OR T;-'.r G'r..;ERAL FUND
DE:'ARTMr::., Oi� P1- 4 NINi' AND ,:�1`.1 tiC "OARDS �
ADMINIS KA'::. '�, tj 5:30,95 I'',(:kFritiTNO GFNFRAL
FUND REVEN; .. ! T.i: rral'r S, hY i SA?:i: AMOUNT
FROM THE ,,,Ni BAi.A.. 'T' - FOR 7 i? P1'RPOSE OF
PAYING ACE-PAF,':':,, FOR ','HI PRINTING A1'D
MAILING CT' ZONTN(v ..,'. is rC :� ; CO3',:TATNING A
REPEALER PROVISION ::Z1 A c'�::R� ,T?..:y C-.r. Sf:; AND
DISPENSING WITH THE RFQU1f:1.`^_.NT l-*- E ADI;�G SAME
ON TWO SEPARATE DAYS BY A VOTE : ';OT LESS THAN
FOUR -FIFTHS OF THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.
4 yyW
75 ti h 1
le
Was introduced by Commissioner Plummer anti seconded by Commissioner Lacasa for
adoption pursuant to Section 4, Paragraph (f) of the City Charter dispensing
with the requirement of reading same on two separate days by a vote of
not less than four -fifths of the members of the Com-,ission-
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. P:Ili 'mc1', Jr.
Commissioner (hev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
Whereupon i.a Commission on motion of Commissioner Plummer and
seconded by CouLnissioner Lacasa, adopted said ordinance by the following
vote -
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr. 16
Commissioner (Rev.) 17heodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
SAID ORDINANCE WAS DESTC'\A":_v C,hDINA_NCE :+0. 9095
The City A, .orney read the ordinance into the public record and
announced tliat copies were available to the members of the City Commission
and copies were available to the yublic.
24.
k�
S. DIH'T. OF 13,=A1 1i, EDUC.A' EON 5 WELFARE
�:.1'F ": KAi I''G FOR ,iDAPTE'D RL'CREATION (3rd year)
Mayor Ferre: We are now on 13 authorizing the Manager to accept a grant. Now,
Plummer is for that so... Is that right?
Mr. Plummer: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, Gibson moves and Lacasa seconds, further discussion, call
the roll on 13.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Gibson, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-309
A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY YANAGF.R TO ACCEPT A
GRANT A'�,.ARD f FKOM, THE 'U . C . DEPA1tT*:ENT OF HEALTH, EDUCA-
TION A:,0 ','ELFLU , FOR STAFF TRAINING FOR ADAPTED RECRE-
ATION (3RD YEAR) AND 7URTHER AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER
TO EXE.CU TF_ THE NECESSARY CONTRACT(S) AND/OR AGREEMENT(S)
TO TMPL '1.Et:4 THiS Pc.1)GRAT4.
(Hei-e tcllews body of resolution, omitted here and on
file i.1. t:.e Office of the City Clerk) .
Upon being secondc•' 1'j'7 Cosunit,sioner Lacasa, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the f^,Mowing vote:
AYES: Co:r'ission;r .Joe Carollo
Commitsidntir J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) T:zeodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES:
None, � Fj
f
15. FIRST & S!:COND BEAhING;F.l � S Al..'; ,Y
FUND: S'ii,,FF TRAINING FOR l.DAI''.CI:i) RI:C:"'.rALTO:; (3rd year)
Mayor : Gib on move-s l Lacasa seconds, furtr,er discussion? Alright,
read the ordinance. Call the roll.
AN ORJ LNA 4CE ENTITLED -
AN' 01,'INANCE LKENDING SECTION 1 OF ORDINANCE NO.
8711j , ADOPTED OCTOBER 26, 1977, TIf_ SL;' '',iARY GRANT
APPROPRIATIONS ORDINANCE, BY ESTABLISHINIG A NEW
TRUST A\'D AGENCY F:'`D EN 7i'i,i:L1: "STAFF TRAINING
FOR ADAP 1I•:D Rr ;,REA'f L'0'N (3R:) YLAR)" IN 7-HY,. AXIOUNT
OF $66,735; AND kPPi'0PRIATlNG THLR:TO A G1\ANT
AWARD Of `40,500 WITH A CITY C,Acl, ;`LAIC!: (-)t' $2t,-'.�`
FOR TtiL OPERATION OF S.1_Ii.'-, CU\iAiNi:vG h� 'f._I:?
PROVISIGN AND A5 1F.RAiiILI7n; ', ,,;E; :;•�. .. iSP::.NSING
WITH Tlir k}:CLi?.:?iLNT nF k:.,,'1..G ';'HI'. --: 1'. O\ TWO
SEPARATE DAYS BY NOT LESS ",-K N FOUR -
FIFTHS OF —iHE ''t-:i:,LIIJ yr 'iHi: C011,2-1,i5SION.
Was ir-trod,r,,:ed by Coreriise.ioner Gipson and seconded by Commissioner Lacasa
for adoption i.ursuant to Section 4, Paragraph (f) of the City Charter
dispensini; with the requirement of reading, s-,mcc or two separate days by
a vote of not less than four -fifths of the, of the CoiT nission-
AYES: ConLmissioner Joe Carollo
Corir,ission,2r J. L. i'lurc:er, Jr.
Commissioner !', Th--onore c. Gibson
Vice -Mayor r;rr,ando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
Wnereupon the Commission on motion of Commissioner Gibson and
seconded by Commissioner Lacasa, adopted said ordinance by the following
vote -
AYES: Commissionei Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. ?'Lu;.imer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) T,-iec,;'ore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
SAID ORDTNANCE WAS DESIGNATED ORDINANCE NO. 9096
The City Attorney read the ordinance into the public record and
announced that conies ware available to the members of the City Commission
and copies were dvai.lable to the public.
APR � 4 1980
f
26. ALTEORIZE AGREEMENT: S'i �; (',.' I i o-l"1 i',A I11.PT. OF TRANSPORTATION
CON'ri I:E�C;I:/CO\�'ENTION CENTER.
Mayor Ferre: The next Itell is 19. Doc anybody have any >>ro'-1em. with
You have it i,, your package and you have read it. It's a trade hctwcc:; :"'it:
State Rnad i-e1 rtment. I mean, it's called what? What's it called nnw D.O.T.?
And the City on land and what have you. This is for the bifurcation and what...
Mr. Plummer: 1 , Mr. Mayor, my question on 19 is how much does it cost to
redo Southeast '.th Street?
Mayor Ferre: We have to do it anyway.
Mr. Plummer: No, no, no we don't now.
Mr. Grimm: Yet we are redoing Southeast 4th Street rs part of the Convention Center.
The cost is approximately fifty-five thnusand do11A:s.
Mr. Plummer: And where is the :1 .«y coming from?
Mr. Grimm: Out of tir.e Convention Center funds.
Mr. Plummer: And the restriction is in there as to what can be placed in the air
space above?
Mayor Ferre: Right.
bfr. Grimm: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Completely.
Mayor Ferre: Right.
Mr. Plummer: Ok .
Mayor Ferre: Plummer moves 19, Lacasa seconds, further discussion? Any problems
on 19? Further discussion, call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-310
A RE__%^I.UTION REAFFIR'�?INC T:IE TERMS OF RESOLUTION' NO.
75-521, AND FURTHER AL''11JORI7.ING THE C171' a,k\AGER TO
EXECU7Z ':'IE AGREEMENT WITH Th'c STATE OF FLORIDA DEPART-
MENT C'v TitAMSPORTATION TO FORMAi.I E :,.^I FASFMFNT FOR
TE'E C'0Nb'1RuC''I0:; OF THE. CONNFCTI\G LINI] BETWEEN THE
CONY NTION C1:;;Tti: ,1''D THE COVEN I IGN (.F.',*TFR GARAGE;
_ TG 10 ?: STATZ ! iLPARi -XEN i OF TRAN'�P,,! TATION
AIR Ri;,i•TS FCR 'iHE CO';S'I'RL'CTIO\ OF A FL'' "t: i�ii'``.P TO
SERF ':Nr . -T'n;:'i ?,,_A71a. AREA, k;1ICH AIR ATGHTS MAY PASS
OVER A nF S.E. A".) OvtR Pi«OP -'KTY
IliI NI,Lp_E:, A) 'ii;f: ..:LRI�-:IA SIT.'; A-°;.-'u,RTHER
AGREEI`'G THE ;'I'i1' MOULD bid RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY
ADD1T L('%A:. Cb. i � FO;\ '7tti;. I L'Ti i%E OF THESE
RA'k'Ct'S IN ?i"DTA '11iE GR-VNTED TO iriE CITY AND THE
EASEME C'R II TED BY Tay; CITY TO THE STATE.
(Here foil:-,,:: body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in .nL' Office of the City Clerk).
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Lacasa, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
•
ol
APR 2 41980
6
6
AYES1 Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
27. WORK: ORANGE BOWL - PAINTING S
Mayor Ferre: 'T'le nc�xc Item is 24. Mr. Carollo, Yrelummer any pro ulems?
Mr. Lacasa 24:' Does anybody have any obler,s? uarollo moves, Gibson seconds,
further discussion, call the roll cr. 24.
The followin€, resolucion was introduced by Commissioner Carollo, who
moved its adopticr.:
RESOLUTION NO. 60-311
A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING 'ihF, COI-PLETED
WORK PERFORMED BY B(-.,WEN PAINTING AT A
TOTAL COST OI' S :_,100.0� FOR THE ORANGE
BOWL - PAINTING AND :�1-�I:: LNAINCL - 1979;
AND AUTHORIZING A FIN',L PAYMENT OF
$355.50.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Offi.cu of the City Clerk).
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Gibson, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote.:
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Coi,unissioner J. L. Plumimer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rtv.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
2�' . EXI':.:S`.SLNENT FOR CREATTON FOR
1 %' Il is ONCE LXC?i^ tiGE AND REC( M!:ND ING GEtI ATi R Iili*;T
.:rr'iT;;_••:-•5/9r'�v��:70.._+�:tt3C,`.rya":�.5�.�s.:;"'k':.`��'C'�i.�t�:.".wF__'�;;;.:'_!1�^.Q"iSi'F'
Mayer Ferrc: On It...,. _'5, Mr. Laccisa moves and Mr. Plu:a,c,r seconds, is there further
discussion for th-v cr,.,.ti;)n of a Florida Insurance Exchange in Miami, if not, call
the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Lacasa, who
moved its adoption:
R :JULUTION NO. 80-312
A RESOLUTION EXPRESSING THE CITY OF MIAMI's
ENDORSEMENT FOR THE CREATION OF THE FLORIDA
INSURANCE EXCHANGE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AND ,r10.
RECOMMENDING THAT SUCH AN INSVV.NCE EXCHANGE
BE LOCATED IN GREATER MIA`:I, AS ONLY THIS
AREA HAS ALL THE REQUISITIES TO MAKE SUCH AN
EXCHANGE SUCCESSFUL AND PROYTTABILE.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the. City Clt:rk).
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the resolution was
passed and adovted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plumuner, Ir.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
Mayor Ferre: I would like to ask the Clerk to send :� copy of tni.s immediately to
the Cabinet and especially to Bill Gunter who wii :-,ave the ultimate decision I
understand in JleciJinb where the insurance exchange go and .7. L., I. would be very
grateful if you would accept a Corunission to work with Leslie Pantin and
the other people in the .,kirance industry here ieprusenting the City and go visit
with Bill Gur,t,'r r -,Ien next time he is down here visit with him to impress upon
him how very important this insurance exchange is to Miami.
Mr. Pluirner: I will be happy to.
Mayor Ferre: Ok.
9. ACCEPT BID: HEAVY EQUIPMENT
,Y
Mayor Ferre: Item 26 is a Heavy Equipment Department...
Mr. Plummer: Move it.
Mr. Lacasa: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, Plummer moves 26, seconded by Lacasa, further discussion?
Mr. Plummer: And I . .uld also like to congratulate whoever did the bidding on this.
-I think we had some twenty-six bidders this go around which speaks very highly.
Mayor Ferre: Call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-313
A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING ThZ FOLLOWING BIDS FOR FURNISHING HFAVY
EQUIPMENT FOR THE DFPAR`rME_NT OF B:'ILDING A,NT VEHICLE MAINTENANCE;
BID OF TALT.Y-EMBRY FORD, INC. AT A COST OF $478,703.00; BID OF
H. F. ''ASON EQUIP2:rNT CORP. AT A COST of � 8" 402.35; BID OF
GMC TRUCK L COACH D7.'JISION AT A COST OF $28,758.00; BID OF
CALI_*LAuN :.OTOR CO. AT A COST OF $4, 250.00; bID OF I\TERNATIONAi.
HARVESTER CO. AT A is-"ST PF S214, 182.00; EID 0 A:A'ANCED FABRI-
CATORS AT A COS1 tit' $9,022.00; BID Or RGi SON, INC. AT
A COST OF $8,01G.00; $!:h OF GROWERS fo RD iRACTOit CO. AT A COST
OF $3,524.00; BID OF BLANCHARD MACHINERY, INC. AT A COST OF
' 60 A r � ;� 4 1980
C�
Ll
$2,270.00; BID OF PENCO, INC. AT A COST OF Y1,820.00 BID OF
DeBRA TURF b INDUSTRIAL EQUIPXii`NT AT A CObT OF $3,290.00; AT
A TOTAL COST OF $845,231.35; ALLOCATING M;DS AS FOLLOWS:
GARAGE REPLACEMENT RESERVE. FUN:. ;'834,'�79.35, PAFRS DEPARTMENT
CAPITAL EQUIPMENT BUDGET v9, I `_.7. G0, �'nM'iUtilii' LlE�'F:LOP"1ENT. ,
CL'LMER OVERTOWN $1,795.00; AUTHORI'I!N!' Ci'N 'TANAGER AND THE
PURCHASING AGENT 'TO ISSUE irif: PURGHASh FOR THIS EQUIPMENT.
(Here follows body of resolution, or„fitted Lore and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk).
Upon beir g seconded by Commissioner Lacasa, the resolution was
passed and adc:ted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Pl,1;mer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
30. AC'C1-:P: h1D: OFFICE. SUPPLIES, PURCHASIAG DIVISIO.�, CENTRAI.
;y STORES
Mayor Ferre: Take up Item 27, does an.!body have problems with that:'
Mr. Plummer: Move it.
Rev. Gibson: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Plummer moves, Gibson seconds, further discussion, call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-314
A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE SF.PA:^'ATE BINS RECEIVED
FROM SEVERAL SliPPLIERS OF OFFICE S?;PPI.TES FOR
THE T)EPARTMENT OF FINANCE:; PURCHASTNG DIT','1SION1,
CE\Ti;. STORES, AS IDENTLFIE.D ON TYKI A '[',,CHF.D
TAK .ATION OF BIDS, FOR FUR:NIS,"FLNG SPECTFICALLY-
DESIGNA'iF'_'! OFFICE S1 PPLIrS BY `Ar:'i 1Cl"-A_1 SUPP;.IERS
FOR I.SE ON \ AS NI:hDED DATE
H�F;T'_OF q .,AN TOTAL COST 01 110, .9 ,
Ai.! 0'... '1NC _'U'',7)S t''�'r'� 'iI1� i `.+i ��-", i.`,'i' . NAL SEIc VICE
FUND Ct:;:'trZA'.. i 0Y\E5. A17110RI?INC; ` Hi CITY Y.-NAGER
A.ND Ti', . ' R'C"!-_6: C ACHN'; TO ISSUL THE PURCHASE
ORDERS iOk
(Her:, follow!:: body c ` resolut icon, omitted here and on
file is the "!ff.i.LL of the City Clerk).
Upon being secon:. d by Commissioner Gibson, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the 'ollowing vote:
AYES: Commis5ioa er Joe Carollo
Lo;lrissic„er J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Cibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor IMaurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
31. AL''IH(il7I,E CI1T'S PAhTICiPr17IJN: Cr,NCER SOCIETY GOLF '
W,'•.IVE SINCi E ORI• LN FEE M):i.RFESE GCLFCOURSE
Mayor Ferre: Take up 2S.
Mr. Plummer: Move it.
Mr. Lacasa: Second.
Mayor Ferre. 'right, there is a motion and a second on 28, further discussion,
call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-315
A RESOLUTION APPROVING AND AUTH0RI':'?•,G THE
CITY ' S PARTICIPATION ?', i:HE CANCER
SOCIETY GOLF C'AR7 ? BY WAIVING THE
COST OF A c T::., .L GREEN FEE FOR ONE ROUND OF
GOI.r T-i EA(:: hF.AREY; OF A 198j !01Ei:TCAN CANCER
ioC_iE1Y G(�L CAI`.J iiiA"ZR, DLRING i;IE SL``-4ER
SEASON AT THE MELRELSE GJLF CCrI RSE UNDER
TERMS DESCRIBED HEREIN.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk).
Upon being seconded by Cona:issior-!r Lacasa, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Comi%is;icner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) 'rheodore R. Gibson
Vice-`Sayor ,,irmando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
`. 32. ACCZ2T BTD: SWIK4ING POOL CHEMICALS
.s
'4
Mayor Ferre: I ke up 29.
Mr. Plummer: Move Lt.
Mayor Ferre: Moves 'oy Primmer, .. .
Mr. Lacasa: Secor;d.
Mayor Ferre: ... seconded by Lacasa, further discussion, call the roll on 29.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-316
A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE BID OF ALLIED UNIVERSAL CORPORATION
FOR FURNISHING SWIMMING POOL CHEMICALS ON A CONTRACT BASIS FOR
$2 A F 2 4 198u
0
14
ONE YEAR FOR THE DEPART>£fN*T ,)F LFISLihE SERVICES; AT A TOTAL
COST OF $22,031.25; ALLOCATING 111;NDS FROM THE 1979-80 OPERATING
BUDGET OF THAT DEPAR YU.'rT: T'h : CTTV ; ANNACtR &ND THE
PURCHASING AGENT TO ;.SSICE TIU,, PURCHASING ORDER FOR THESE MATERIALS.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk).
Upon being seconded by Corrnissioner Lacasa, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. 1.. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor A mando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
33. DEFERR I, OF A,-.1 '::1'. cri,.m "; " ',:'ZD I'I'i n i
Mayor Ferre: Now, the only thing we havo pt•ndin iaci--s and gentieren, is a item
in the morning -ession. We had Item "F" wlhich ties into Item 34, so take up
Item 34. Alright, does anybody have any problems with that. '11iis is Bryant,
Miller fire: and what have you on payment.
Mr. Carollo::r. Mayor, it's still not clear to me why we are to pay the additional
money and...
Mayor Ferre: Ok.
Mr. Carollo: ... I would like to have this item deferred at this time.
Mayor Ferre: Alright,...
Mr. Plummer: Second.
Mayor Ferri: Vince, you need to have an explanation and I would like to see if we
could take ti-.at up tomorrow, because this is something that's been pending for a
long time. %,culd you please make sure that in the nornii;g you have proper
explanations for --he members of the Commission that have questions.
Mr. Grimm: This is for Item 34?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: 34 or Item "F"?
Mayor Ferre: It's the same thing. "F" and 34 is the same. Call the roll.
THEREUPON TdE FOREGOING MOTION TO DEFER AGENDA ITEM NO.
"F" and 34 was introduced by Commissioner Carollo, and
seconded by Commissioner Plummer, and was passed and
adopted by unanimous vote.
0
et
-Lig 34. PUBLIC Hi.ARI.NG: R'r:LOCATIuN Ot iiiTi.i:R BUILDING TO
FT. DALi"S PARK
Mayor Ferre: Alright, let's take up Item 63, the Butler building. Alright,
Mr. Grimm, the C}iair recognizes you sir.
Mr. Grimm: v, aavor and mer')urs of thu Commission, ..:s you 'Know the Butler.
Building exi-�. on the sit: that the City proposes to build a gara,c. It has
been propo:. ',, 'rat we... that the Butler :-funding is do:cl:lrcd a historic;:,l
monument arid il, to be moved to Dallas Park. As a _result of t'riat proposal. there
has been some. --ontrol.yorsy to that rove and that's wh;.t the 'dtirpose of this hearing
is tonight. DKr. 'earn is ill tonight, but Joyce. Dlevers is here rri)rt.,enLing the
department and she has been involved in this project since. it's inception and 1
would like her to tell you what's happening today.
Dos. Joyce Meyer-,: Members of the Cc.r::;,issron, i x:, her, , - -ntin;; r.he Planning
Department on the butler Building issue controver,; .;,at has been brought up.
There are dozens of historic preservi"oil L',% c'Yt., iicrtf t0nipht who car: amply
defend the building and spt:<r: a5o1: w'iat's Lorrect for it for r.:ost historic
preservi,Lion standpoint and 1. ..,.- ,Ay a,;rct: vitil them, l ut what you :;houlc know
from the Plannin! pr .7 ..•.-n;_ cii.d tfit• Par,,", ...'T-ar�1T:e11L 15 LL2t V,c 1.irnly believe
that Lhe Bllt-_c ,.7. i5 tilt' n0bt thillj; that CCul"' 12VL•r Cl^.pper. Lo rort Dallas
Park. We if y(a didn't ai .,rcu with Lis. Th.S has
long, recognized and supported the need to i:itroduce activity into our Downtown
Parks. `'ou kn.,» a: well as wL• do that land-,c.i)ed wall'-` and plazas fountains
are noz CO ;)rillf, poop le into t.ie parks. WC `dc' 1entV of L.xpam")ies to
show that. ni-cr!unntely, 1�icenterinial PArk, ba`:i-yo rL ;'a':lM Clncl L1.L• .Lmi River
Walk itself 71,c: offers a gC,1(_en e,) ,ortta ity to inLroduce activity
into Ford DJ11,,, arK in L ,e Ioi-m oI .. rustaurao, CZ, ,.. 1"0 you h.n:)w wazit the.
Lpost Succ(:'_"S! 11l p-ri i 'r, Jowntown ?iia,T,l rigl.t n•.;w w.Lil lour people on a
COnL1nU�.a?, gab:., ,.nd ietic, the s,-cui_-ity proDlt?,m th_,n •Lay c-t(1L_r. lt'� ?Jul Walker
Park, -i littie ,i,ii.i. )ark on F1ai,aer Street and the -lain re.ison for chat is the
cafe wh ,cn t. n,.i.ceS people to come in for a }lot C OF a c;.i of cr I f, L and enjoy
thil Ott= iJOr .. The most slicci'.",,;ful wol_ 11st"; w iLc :J c
CntlOr'i._ -*n ,.Iv.:11 tOW11
ore not the parks. Tile,; are the re5ta..r._nrs. Tli,e Dock;;iue :eriaCte at Miaz,arina,
the flaw Baz at ''.I.orso ',ari.ne and the. :F.a-st toast Fisheries. Pecrie will go out of
their way to go to these waterfront locations, 1,ut not the parks. DDA and other
Org'auizLtioIls t';-it .Ire op-,)oseLL. tt, t::e i-oitler Building in ;'ort Dali;it, Park have
no pasit'ivc' S'J [•i i titions for grin},ill;', a( Livi:.^ into, the park. T,'lt_ City has spent
four hun_-;-L!._i t.ho'isand dc.ilar_, out or ttie --arks f,.,r people bond funds
to b'u\' tl-.,.0 - .ril e f �m `' , .�vc' t} _L . and w i t ')t, l.at, t.l. ki�,r of money .:c,t hE spent
G1, a park .:,: ,.';11d be an t:i:.OL`.' lanQSC:II) ',1 Ci nt: ,'rt1Ci for the 6-icier :,,S;:ion
College .in:. O' .. ;1jacent (ieVti t)mEliiS. iSuLi;:cr .'3s:lion College 1S L:I:.:t:i3LaT'.uC31J.ly
concerned �boi_t 1irlty. Vriat the% don't t1n,:erSt.iT:l is that a 1cLlve functioning
restaurant iL11.' f (5` st-Curlty in th-t w021 w1L11 el' i).C":'eS and paLrUnS as watch
dogs. Ntith_r C or DDA is goin"..''to 1,' :i llli,-t117t� lark (.tten,::ant ]f that
i5 an eT;':i;LV p ,i%.J. v:, arc a numhur of is —)orLant :'Conomic cons iderations that
-the CO.:i^...Sit).l s::u hi. .Cc' of. "gum?>er O:.thU l:liil•:i)nl _;Con
StrUCtllrt' tl i.ear. Seco-)nd :', OrL lklliu 2, r1,_ . . or Se�onOly,
full finidirlg iH 'n 'ind Glove ti h'Ii1d1I1�; at'i:-1 rt:�EltOri' l.L il:,.di.ateiv. i'hlydly,
Fort Dalia: i _rk 1 ,-. t i ; �. _,,, undLI, Judgeted to recrt•aCL' a cor?patli le Or a
comparahlf' aCt1V':L'J •(_,, 2rat_n1' facility wo1111-; ri-cuir(L 1_,)n, La�tt WL. CICn't }lave.
to move thu build i.:% .. ,}ler Sll.: i171E' Slti' DJwntoun woLi.t. al1,o require money
that we (Ion't :lave an(i :.n ,,LtcT 7)t to dLStroy or move tilt' buzic-r huil(:in^ to an
inappropri,:te lr _,_rit_,n wo„i• er:dr(r. _ r the L ight million dol lat ; L'Jcr,11 grant_ that
we have fo1 the Cnnvt.itior, C,nter-a-rkin L:irage. Dir. `al`.'Or .-:nC: ".i'I.'i.L:r JI the
Commission, rherU is Jilt final p0illt Lhat wu W lCIL to :. ll_L , tt::it c't1( re ib a formula
a proven one that wc:,• tt ,t has L:,ree parts. W,-Atcriront, hibtoric SLrUCLures anc
activity ic's been , :. ,c(tprmul,: for parks and public spaces tnrou5hout the
world. You have• the ..:,t.:: r,,nt h"re at Fort :atlas, but that': not L:rough. The
Miami River walk has a ' i-, .,:.. ,1-,(lwn 1.:> --har. Tile '.>.�t '_'r i;,Iildi;lg Oilers the other
esl,ential parts. The acLi'.':ty, t:.e historic ,tructure. Juanita Shearer is a
professional landscape arcl'iitect fro;T. the Parks-/_•,.artn( nt will illustrate how the
formula works and how it can be used in Fort Dallas Park.
�� APR 2" 41�aQ
0 .0
r. T' 1r, a
the record m,
Ms. Juanita Shearer: I Tor !uglho
registered landscape architect in 4.1-,e T.)c-,-rtT71C"1t Of P, r' '7 r (_ ut this
Country and all over Europe there are Lc W',A)surct s.3 can be attributed
L �, �A �) 4 ')- C s� U� es
largely to use of this fonv.u,a to h1st, , � - r -tur
A f(,w of tl,esc can
with new uses in urban and City
be found and ii-iziny of us visited (Tlj,;kA t.'Wrl in Ch,irlo;ton, Say arena,
San Francisco, :w Orleans, Loston, ane, Ot r, 'You will be
seeing slides oi tilc Sin Antonio RiverwAlk. have '-,er-inc a gc�od invest-
ment and a real (ITZAW.ni, card. Peop'ie F,j_JLn'_' tlTid WO that's
important- for )�,tcntAal Dow�itc,wn development and i TI N1 a7,1 now
have a real cipportinilty. We have our own riverwall, we .,ti,rt: dci;,dg something
as excitim-, ai- the things that have ha.-)perie(i around Sar. "..-itonio and ether cities.
We have unlimi ._'d potentials o "Itong as wo furnish it, wllth placc-s to go and a reason
to be there. he Butler Building will provide just slug c,1-a1v-,*_- A M afc
along the rivc.-.7alk, a place with lov. i umbrulla,,, tables, pQl_,7 (, citing
something to d tc from the ConvenLlon C(,,.nter, a p-'a(:C tc- 1,C)ld and
things like tlj Tflc riven-ialk need: r,ary s,ich inttre ling i)odt_,z-, ,-,f potential
excitement to ,_,noratu tl-,e i.it, iEst twat 7)L-():,1C will M20d to ',0 and
, 4
feel safe and se inclined an:Jt)i16 i :1
d the Butler i just sick --i cacplyst. it's
understandable as ;-, landscapes architt--r-t and r,n urban plannt-r and fromvy t_xncrience
in private practice' well vi w(,rk11-til tj,jCity That th,a6 J;i cc, rt
. _ own
ers
have raised conct.,rn and CD,)JSiLi0,_1 tO ,lals, iflsuc. A-nd I that we have
been oblivious tEi it aL any 'poi:-.t our work w4l int- if s t orl c c o-.,Mur. 4. ty - It
maybe that som,? ;.,,)nld ratht r see that ,,-)ac(- with some nice trees,
lots of lights i.no,�hvr "piettv, park a,, a visual -,,rounc-1 s-.-,ace
.re an_-2 whicli are to cc-n,- wit'n no
for the a,1ja(.(_-n'L structilrus w"', r, t .11tCharacter
of its own, no parti:-iil;i" .1,!._ACtC-r at all ea;Ily aday,ting tile cliar.-.cter of the
adjacent struct-,,i s(-:-,,,,'wi,..1t all p W:11_� ma 11 V
_t LlIv pulo.Tlc ex-1,en6c. Tl,-,c
(17,11c.,ul but
be used I SLudel-,Ls (-�f D'al.CC-r Fa,
its in -,pact be limits,-] and its clizacter would ',)e a1,)sL!1it completely. Tile
DDA has also fon,.-,ard that 1,11c, cr this building i.,; not architectually
comliatib:u with Oi,2 adjacent: -on-�,rece, and v,lass :,tructures w*,-iiclli we see now
i - to
coming tip all cvi-i T)o-"tow,-. XJ,Iri 'ITld ',711iC,-i Wl.�_' certainl% be pE.r,_ of our City
corr&, ;D,-irt of our .,IeW ;IL)fld Cont-.-. i.is -_'Is c3 01)1�C!,i' i Cri ri'll'i I t
c)sr)luLt_. ri,)nscnbv. A,.-' of 1.-� rllln�vW citi—:-. 1_11 ,ecn fit to
retain thtir old struccurv-, and t,uiid around them, tiubi e tht217, and
up abciiT,st them. C r].., , our hi 's il c,r-y bi_lon�,- ir. c)-,Ir midst, in Lur citlic-, in the
present, ir oi_-r chic`; iP ft( Fut',170 so that v',-, call take pride in our hiszcry,
pride: in a li-ttlz t'll-t: Y`aglEr b:.lilt for his workers and pr-itle in
cone that will ko beside ?t and arouilc 1 t - In ruspon.;e T-D further
COrlte,lLion that, th,_ 1+ysical stru,:tur-_i c;innct iccommodatt-d, on t`Jsite, we ask
you tO look briefiv :it tne T1. W*-,Ilan;
"tic- 6 i is,
,rk- is il, iu�,tr-,,t:ed orreLt scale,
illustrated at t'n, co7rect a c
NorLh is t.,, t top of thc C,
e lien t'rl(' ?_Ju('e! iS LLD your right
as you w,=re look -in, at the P, I .LE. Tit--, *hiiIdii:� is tw,!nty-two '1� thirty-five
feet lGng whic',-, T,iv(, fo,t witit-t st.-I-y on the
0- -)ri . Y .;ut ir, an nil;Lt C111
plan an6 -ioL-.att,_,! in t,,e ',or . 1 11 .
ev.)cative termi'rlatc!J by an when we leave the type 0 f
pro,,ram tl:at w, -ir- talkie; abcutt will 11)e Witt: lovcly coior._u_, u..brolias,
tablc-.r; and i- peoplu sirLini:, around en41ovi7-.,,; -flit r t2 T-..,l i r, I n&
portion of the ch is a C 07,1) 1 -.-,a t i 0 rl GI i d C a S t WE Lr0L i r OT11 our c. 1 s c us s ons
'no riverwa-, an,: the opi_ilc�l piriza
I
with DDA sucl, -and comirq- �,Jffl
area iS Ll - I_UiLe flk_Xi�Iu it Shoulj ;i_, WE. O iUT tli T through
the dvsi,,,n .;Lhur Cit}, Ljcrc_ie- w,, t'i, V',.!1*V1','_--.' 7.0 De
lniac-iited iarr, to make a real nu!_e of s rile 1. r,' - y
possible with t:i_, Vhen this bii-ildlinc,, is pialt,d on tort Da'.1as
Park it will %if 1.w -le -_re as man'; people hale been Icd to ben ii Ve. --cs�oration
to it's ori:,,,ina'L it will take on charm and li:ait,, which is -)i.rt of
this rei!.ionL; If we look at these slides some of which
is from Nassau, but of wri-.Lch are ire Key ':I:•,jy are a cie".- illuicaLi011 Of
what kind c.- :v have dcr.:n l,.Cr,., ina what we t)e proua or.
The Butler ,iol bt I real a,_,LL to thisco-.=n:n4iy and i tllilj:: if WL' turn our
back on... 1i 'dt' n11: 'DaCk Jn tni.s nu,4, we rir.7- turni"ig on part of our
:dentity and 1,)in,: L,:r fu,nraty I*,- cri,,tcfil Downtown for this park,. I w,-,u1.C] now
I,ik,- to introo,icc hi=t,,riL members iTl the hist,,�ric coTT.P.unity. 1 belicve the
first to speak will be 'rya Parks, qhe is an nistoTlan. it's Liw iiiofurl�
co!n;-,,unit:y's iriLeritior, to T f(jr tile sav`n�; a - prcsf-rvaLlon
.vcilu,� _i l
of this structure and can't ke(!7, it in the place where it was originally
built its relocation as we i-ia,"L d4s,)aa-;,,d it in the Fort T nark. Ns. Parks?
Mr. Lacasa: How many people intend to speak on this issue? Could you raise your
hands? Ok, so we have two sides probably, right Roy? So how many opponents do we
have? And for the issue?
F R 241980
f r*�,
(BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC Rf:CURD)
Mr. Lacasa: But not all of them are going to speak, right?
(BACKGROUND COMMENT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Mr. Lacasa: Your name and address for the record please.
Ms. Arva ?arkrr: 1,1y name is Arva Parks, I live at 1006 youth Greenway Drive. I
am here representing what has been called the. historic coir,munity. I think that
is a very nice feeling because for the first time in the, history of Miami the
historic co,,.r.11', ity has come tooethcr with a consensus anc' has worked witn the
City of iti rr,i ;h a very Ir,eaningful way throughout thi , wht:lc discu!;sion. Through
Mr. Kern's fi , 'er with Juanita Shearcr and J;yce MeyL•r:. Ind other peo, it: on the
Parks DeparLe:e: and als,) with ?lr. C.onnol .y who is di1"cctl; involy d wit: the
L
COnVeliLlOil r• nPr0.1e':'L. 111C mulr�l:,.•r C't tl,e ti:1SLOriC CL",J;;llnit'.' 4?,2rl'. a.::KL'd In
good faith to come and to SLUC_V the "ituation. Ic was a 'cLry tre:i: pl,_aSllre for
me since I had just done the historic rest.,irch for the State of 'Florida on the
Granada site that the, City of Miami so graCiously allowed to be excavated. We
came together �-,nd after a Z;reat deal of st�idy came up with wh:.t we bi .love to be
some vt•r.y sounCl CltIlcl-asions. There have `(`un i imes in t1'•_ Wnen tne. historic
CO,rrlllnity has -Garlc a point of buin , somt.W:lat :)I a I 'wRell 1L COir,es t0 what
7S known 3s a;i E:'-ace of dE'vc'lu,)mt'nt 11"l '1CIe hi:.tOriC COTJI1ilnitV this
time coal_d have trit•d or perhaps G.:i ie suceessiltily eon cl s, oiler whC•n dealing with
this huildin' b.i'_ We } belicvec `o,-•d frtitil thr:t the- best way was to work out a
solution ara w,, feui th'it nis is what has bt•e-n done. i would like L) nt:7fion just
a coul%le O7 t!ll.' _ :t the philosopil;: of nistor'ic p-r-cs,-rvation. thit e frs
CLUestirin al'.That- there has 1)een sove uisc'_:_�sion Of Lille., way 1S this
an importaat. `,>u11'ding? This is an i;iportant. buil,':ing bC�t-ause it :s t.ile la.-.t thing
that I'._rir fiaflC'i w3ti d"irectiy as�,ociateCi Wit.1i that c-xist in Downtown Nia^i. It
is the 19st of an undali ,( rt G :ipeciL's. There is nothing c Ise liki2 it. 1�o one in the
historic CO:i:1:1L!I:iL`' Cli:S ,;a (: that— this is the Igreaiest piece of aI'(_i:itecLiire that
Was ever dOrte in 'ila':11 Or1bE_ t0 th3t aCC011ilt, It 1S thL last. 1[ii'ri_ 15
nc)thi.nt• else'. W, .. Uid ov(: to Gt [.v. _ i_Oda%, aL i ., :f i:_, ..0 savt` t�:t 3. ?a�_r"'
Hotr-1 Or aL'ou#. Ll:r 'e quarter.- o tht Other ear f`j' Glll.din ,5 in miar-,i ti,at arc lOr.
gone, hilt ycL, m,iv sa\ this is thf, .ast Lhin , that t,,ert' 1'ri. It la l7r:c th-c last
eVU]" .a;':cr• ill'_h_:r tl:aL: s'C,j-,' 1e(,4 u.ti t0 ShOOt The ne-L cl•,:C'�LlC is, if this is
a historic '>uil:lin,�, and ? want to make it vary clear that this huiidil: has
said ?Flat it l:as potentiCil for E'1i"ibilit.; to the ,)ation.-il register of Llistor2C
pla:L-s arld t\' COi:Vt'?.>[it],i:.., tL)ilaV with the slat'_ -,;reservation Of11Cc•: Ross Morell
he ass•_!red me that this was trLle. As you recall Roo; , Xorell Was here. la�.t year in
chargt.� Of the �.rcl,aeological dig. At that time Wc' ': :i'r:eC: C'v r together ilnd looked
at the Butler l"u;1din, and 11L' reaiizec: t'I:e onorct.0 l'lL of i^,i-toric. fabric that
still rtera
tainr . 1_s icadu has Lt2 ',n Cti3nl'i.'Ci <t , l 6G <id '.f tfJtl ',.a, f een T)ut on t0 the
rear., the vt r , front, i z-,I,ould, s:_iy a y:orch na:> 1 'E li i1(;cc'v. the facade is remarkably
;,Lmilar e)r coul•l bt. rcturne,C: tit it's ori�'in;Il 'C t li. ,in,,t wo have' photographs of
th:s blll1C]1 `rder t.O do tl,L:,. Airlt',nt, -.0 1' %a' arc' ..:i'..11 t:lat t:-.C' State
of Florida H,.. , t "': 1 c PresL rvaLion UI i1Ctr., Sa_JS L'i 1* .1'i1S hill ] Glilb 1.S i1 tOr1C
`>UiId1nF, ltla (_11t.Fie for C.Ot1SiUL'1':tt10`: ;.?r tilt Ill!LiUG.:l rt,;lbtEr, then it
be•comet. o0I `1: i 1•; ,t a i ed,:'ral grant I of i annct impact. So
what the itrer:t r. _;.i o:1!runity SillCe it. _'l;i !lOt . IiT1F. .,.1Sil`llc t0 Keep t'111S
building, on its _ I: :,ire which: was our :first chc,ir ant wr7ic:l is always the
first choice, on i i i hUl Idlnf� t ried tf', c: P t o _ .:r - -)Il. The next
q; . �Cion 's, t C'�t' t r.i ,. ,bui icir„ whet is order to presL�rvC the
h iote,r lC i11Lt';f _ tel `' ),111(111. 1lle iliSL0::1C irltl';.rlty Wu all t: i1 , W What integrity
iT r'.=1n9, wr' a_�. 1:op Wt.' i,;:vu itlr's a vt'rV_ ;ii)uCiAu g1,.11it'.'. The building
has that inter, . y s , it rr' )resenLt, pt''�ple. The t)c'.� ,'..C' that. cull r tdiami, built
blll.1d1I1.;, 11.vea ln..:u,_ t.,... 1)'l7.lding. ;11L' sit around tt nC^w na:i Chiia`?t dramatically.
There US@d ti, be fl W'i(,lC• 551rL'Ct Of liiL.l [1Old 6t,:i )USL liki- i11:,t 1L Chant,eCs,
but the hou!:e still l:.:s ntch,7lty on it- t•xi:;tinE; itc. Next chit':-,tion comas,
if We are mov: ., IL '..''.: Tt` C,lii We l,at il: fir, hull: c whore it will st: i l '"gave thu
historic info ,,r: r`i :h a: 'lids is a`.:, ClUtit to as Lt ha �-, in its c•\1sti^. : site.
ft!L'Lunately f.lvL' t'e. away thert, wa:, a piL'C 't I'L, l_'
e Of i 1"c�pC'1 t` t:1�� bur
the original pvr:io;. in 0i ;Lsc could view from tht it window
that was undeveloped, ;r,t �Iel�n ,t d to the City of Dliami. 1'c 1 do not take a
historic house that bt,1.),1, th tll, .,ery :)e�;inning of tht C1tV i I `;icml and
du:,ip it some where that i. a t rt -l att-d to the bt- ;inning to Ll1t. City O 'Miami. There
has been GomL discus5lon oi mcving this; to 1.trrmnis Park. ,'�11, to uy tl]is building
to I.ummus Park is like puttini, t'.lt three little piss in the E-Addl(_ of Macr,eth.
There is a very different type and part o our history. 1.urrnus Park has Fort
Dallas which belongs to a prehistoric... w..11, not prehistoric, preMiami period...
history and it also has a pioneer house. We ncc taikinh about a City house. We
are talking people who built Miami. You have to keep thy. story straight or you
6
lose the historic integrity. Part of the qur.i :f icw is n f,:r the fec;eral grant is
if a building is moved it most be on a Eiite ttlat ha:� the iiistor:c 'Lntegrity.
There is one last thing and I will close. 1 t1iink I'm the only one speaking for
this, so I would like to have just a littIL' 1-,0re time if I may.
Mayor Ferre: Arva, if you will forr:ive me ar,d by the way, 1 apclooize for not
being here when you started, but I was u,-stain_. and I was lisTenint; to the
microphone to half of what you said. How many people here would like to speak
in behalf. of? In other words, for?
Ms. Parker: I am the spokesperson for that group if you would like more we have
plenty.
Mayor Ferre: For the proposal of moving the Butler Building to the park. Rose,
you want to s- -, k?
Ms. Parker: Ma-Yor Ferre, we have all these people that would be happy to speak.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I know, I know, but I mean, it's...
Ms. Parker: I'm speaking for them right now.
Mr. Plummer. Maurice, to Lummus Park?
Mayor Ferre: No, sir we are talking about for movir.� to the park on the river of
the so callt_c.' 1.sutler Building and Arva ' :peak nj, in favor of that and Rose
Gordon wish« to spt--ak in favor of flat. Now, you have had five minutes up until
now. Rase }:�'w True. tide wou? a like to speak. Ok, now 'how about tie. opponents?
Now, I know tIrLt. is here and I saw Joy Harrison a little while ago.
Who wants to against it'. Who are the opponents' Roy Kenzie... we have two,
three, anybc else:' Do you... and how much time do you need?
(BACKGROUND Co? Mir NT OFF THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Mayor Ferre: Well, how long is that?
(BACKGROUND G0'22-',hNT OFF THE PUBLIC RECO^D)
Mayor Ferre: Alright, how much time do you need? Two minutes. Ok, that's fine,
proceed.
Ms. Parker: Alright, why move it to this Site? Why are we in favor of moving it
to this site. it is in the original proximity of the house. More than that, a lot
o: people don't realize that I',ort Dallas Park was a area in wl,ich somt_ of the earliest
home- in Miami ('xi.sted. That w'iole North hank of the River from Mia^,;i Avenue to
the bridge. wa: 7ii':'E` full Of L�;.:-ltvery much like the o called Butler
Buildir.;;. It w.-is a sin.,1C family r:('if:},bO'f, Cl 11-)T:; btu`ort' i_';tr. the 1.ran,ida A-partments
were built wrllch was Gilt_' c: the first ';,,Ailtipi.i: faT,l!l 7"IL people that lived in
Fort Da.;.a.. War}: the SUbd;'vision as `otI �i':1, art: tr,t' t lV w'1: a;:,o hLiptd buil:i
lb V.1111�1e part of „ur 'history' t;
1-.a: :,c,t,,, 1 oI �-; tE•ll. St, •.:hat we are
propo,,,ng is r,,. _ t' u:.p this in a,'feet of City wr.Lc ro; t' ty r} ,it. has no
rt3r:Orl for :•P:r.r (1;_7 d iTl. ;t has bt en a-arefu, —,v, c.xu,5%t o, t, .tole .: su,utlor,
to a,, iii,ports: !.l, ti buIloing. I 8;,; her;' to ; poL:'r. '. I.istoI-y, Uut 1 have to
sa., that evt_r\".+nc in t! historic cor:munitti' "i 'Ti 'F 3 it,1 ,i:r C j Tc'C 'i:t w'l ti. w:ra, Ms.
Mev rs anal It is an, k-xciriiig oppC:r,.i ilty to hav� an a: iviiV in
a warerfront--,a-k. "a`i:IP1 I _ T '. t 19 s•��,..et':�n� uc rlSv� b�'t:, tr�. ii.h �i' _ L . J ii;i} 'C:1
LGr years. ',:,t tee' DE',_., -,11 l: ! L,:;lt 7)'r( LGr_nr see- r1,:re.
We hc-,ve wark�_d witr. t:. Ci' . We .,7J,werIked w:Li all Lit-, 3rt_;is GI t'ir 1't:5'Ivatlon
community and 'wt_ aro ,c-y, . -•r y, sorry tl at ::h, rL' 1S anit'- V-- L1C.:'.:i 11 t:iur u0i'n not
respond -_o careful: th-, ;-:t and co. fern of sJ Tr;ailV we-1-1 ;:vsnlns peo;al—� w::L '.a.`
a'hSb1L'.tE:ly to ,'.n E'::L•:._)t i1 concern i or otlr ht r i tage.. `ale: ':aVe :i
responsibility as citizul.s ar- L ,rtainly as public offic ials tc 11'a L- sont thing for
the I"ext gi.-n atinl of Zile i'_.l.rl:".i.::l. n� t}1:s C-it'..ItC nUt t<:l.ili:z l!-,,:,Ut t.`le p1,111E•ers.
I'm not talking Sf',t't.`t v, "d.7tii.;' tt,il"t,', :i'c t':U tii:l"l:i'C'J. 7'C-,alkltlr` about thiJ
City of Mir!ml, Lilat wt Are verN proud of. Ti',F rE•i,irrh `oirq; thc'r,- today.
SCITIQhOdy told me -t M. t ",. 1" today, I wi ll� ,i ve name. It wa, somebody th::t works
:or the City and 1 tt:^l.,', t iL was beauti`uI. T} <'y said thi thirst; that is so nici
about the: Butler Builcir:, it zs t�':r• size of people. Everything that is i:oing
on in Downtown Miami that we are really in favor of is its breat devElu,hr,ent,
these c;reat tall buildings, t`:;'se VL'at exciting, prc,4-Cts. It is a very race thing
to remember that the City of M..'.'*1 'tE ' � to the pv, i t , if1aC Lr1E hisLOrV was rl:Ide
c.by the people and we think to have a sl:�.11 scale people sizes building whore people
can relate to the feelings of those who began this City is a very appropriate way
h i- 198t�
f /m`i
for a new birth of the City to go. a,r.k you•
Mayor Ferre: Alright, but before you go may 1. t,f llav, c. -•ucstion of you and 1have not made up mind how I'm going to vote on -his as o: :ipilt now. But there is
a very serious concern that I have and I wi.. tc11 .:ou :,l:i it i:,. V.ic n Ivan... I
forget his last name with the County, w1th the ilistoric:i ;oci..ty. Is he here,
Ivan Rodriguez? Yes, ok, when Tvan hoiiri g,uez w;.� bef tart ti.c DDA and 1 said "look
I'm sorry I ('.,)n'L mean to hurt anybody's stnsit!;itic . It you re!,tore, the Butler
Building to it's original fora: it is ugly as sin. Now, is thtry anyway that you
would accept... now, can we put some baham i an t c s c n it and can we put a nice
little pt iLh in front of it so that at least it would bucaust 1 wi .i tall you
if what you are talking about is pure historical pres.':v.:'__:,n of .nc,t !_,iril�iin6 and
what in effect you mean by that is to put it the wad' it w'I's i.. i." _Lrcr..,s, 7'aint
it while with you know, black shin ;le roof and yo).i ' rn't iAntc,nd to d; anything
to it but to r,,,Lore it the way it was. Thcn what n of fec+_ ..ou Litt. sa i'.i is that
you art-' j;oin,; . . tail one of the nos'_ precious p.ia:Ls wi. i c!-, will b e c• r r nnr.ciell Y v
tall bui.ldir,t, : d tht: river and put on it a rat ,cr, I ,oLrv, U ;i': ouil: ing. Now,
I have no prc:Ll—is wl-Lfi that... with putting'. Lnut We C:OUiC. foilow
what Charles Pawley is recomrending. Now, is -:,ou cc,ul., accept and Mr. Ivan
Rodriguez can reframe from being so... such a purist, ti on T hc, i� l . ,, cf a problem
in accepting th�:t building there than if we put a just stark white l)a.intcd, wonderful
Dade County pine building. You know, if it were the Barnacle I wouldn't have any
hesitation at all.
Ms. Parker: Well, there is two thoughts to this. :'first of all, beauty is often in
the eye of the betlolder.
Mayor Ferre: That's true, out I'm... one of the beholders is voting tonight.
Ms. Parker: T think the most important point is it is very di;f.icult for us standing
here right now to see what a restored Butler Building looks like. There is a lot
of very, very, eimilar buildings in Key West for e?::ir;;7it: that have an enormous amount
of charm. There is a great many buildings in the Bahamas that have an enormous amount
of charm...
Mayor Ferre: I'm all for them. Could we set one of those?
Ms. Parker: I think the building that we are speaking of with the phony colonial
front is unattractive.
Mayor Ferre: I do too.
Ms. Parker: I think a building with a very typical front porch that three quarters
of the buildings in Miami Florida had between 1900 and 1926 is something that makes
a lot of sense in our climate and is a good lesson to us perhaps.
Mayor Ferre: Could we restore it that way?
Ms. Parker: It would be restored with the front porch where you can sit on the porch
in the shade.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, w:.il, that's wonderful...
Ms. Parker: It woui, not look like it looks now, it would look like it looked...
Mayor Ferre: I think I didn't express myself right. The original building from the
photographs that I h-ive seen dlu not have a front porch.
Ms. Parker: it has :-malll one story roof to the front porch with... that I know
you have seen in your ^hi.'_Ihood wii.�re people in rockers used to sit on and enjoy
the breeze in the fLe rnoon. That is the freling of Charles Pawlev• There is a
letter from him that I twin?c perhaps would answer some of your questions. Could we
read that to you p i c ase';
Mayor Ferre: YeFi, : woulc: Like... would you reaLl that into the record? Because I
think that is goir,;,, t.,- bL th- absolute key if this thing is to pass tonight.
Ms. Parker: Honornhi, :ice Ferri.+ and City Colmmiissio:--.:rs, for several months now
I have been working witi, 01 e Villagers, Dade Hcrit;,ge Trust, South Historical
Society and other intt:rest t,:o:ips to .gave and relocate the Butler Builnir,p,. Th,_r(
have been some Who que!,tioned the buildi&,'S historical u_Lican,,c and also
insisted that the building was and a!wc_ y:, will t)e unattractive. I cannot comment
on their credentials for making such a st6teme:nt and I will not comrr,�nt on the
building's historic significance. There are others who are extruraely qualifit.d in
that area. I would like however, toccy�[orament on the building's aes:netics. Restoration
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and adapted reuse are specLi'Itics U; ,,'int -..,,,_:lsive experience.
I would like to assure the Coi,mlission t:at if the uti('r building is recycled
and adapted reused propose is an, iL is r,lactd in Fort Dallas Park
it will not only he historically lae;ncra ''t•. ', Lt will hove it's own quaint charm
equal or better than any of the other li:sti,ric sites n,)w existing in the. Greater
Miami area. Those involved includini; tale "iami Park.,-. '), p a;-trlent have done an
outstardin':, . .1,'d I hope that you tl Cc,lzi.i:.•:>ior, will rule favorably on this
proposal. Sincereiv, Charles Harrison k'awlcy.
Mayor Fer:.: AlrigInt, thank you, very much for reauling that into thu record. Ok.
Ms. Shearer: Mr. Mayor, another point to keep in mind...
Mayor Ferre: I will recognize you for rebuttal when we finish this whole thing.
At this timt, I 'phi nk we have Rose Gordon who wanted to speak on behalf of the
proponents :,r.d wi'_l let you kind of make the final. presentation, ol., so you make
notes of all ti, ie things you want to say. Mrs. t:ordon and wvIcume back to your
homer for many years.
Mrs. Gordon: Thank ',ou. It feels a little different ba'iug on this side. I'm
Rose Gordon, my address is 1Fc+0 South hayshore Drive. i want to be vcr% brief and
simply say that when this item carte be:orc us wileil I was s;' _ :'. on the other side
I rvmembC'red the presentation and it. reaiiy i.r„prE:.:sf , 1 really believe the
presentation of movin)', that struct.,re to this pu ,• ::ld h:'aKi^;; that part: all active
park, a place where we could all �,o :.nu enj;;v wild ltavu a inack and really find it
a pleasant place to he anti '_;t il" .:'_Ju iL r,7,m. -'scant of early T' l(ii%i was one of the
reasons. In fCict I know - _ wus the re'!S>n t1lat l voted pertiUnaily L::,r t:le acquisition
of the Butler pzr,i-ty. 1 certainly 'hope that, you know, we wi11 end up having that
lovely active aril: to go to. Thani; you.
Mayor Ferro: Airigiht, now we will hear from the opponents for awhile. Mr. Kenzie,
you are recognized for eight minutes. That's what you said. That's what...
Mr. Kenzic=: 1 d.i?'nt time it, but... OK, I will try to do it quickly. For the record
my (lame is Roy Kunz:.e, i'lu the Executive Director of the Downtown D,,veloprlent
Authoritv, By wa}' t'f background I also have a 's-sttes Degree in ar-hitccture b taugnt
architectural h1'6tc,:y in graduate school planning, so I'n hilt op-osed t,-) history
and architecture. 1:, fact 1 dike it Tory ml:Ct: and I'm an architect. The Downtown
Developm,l:t Authority is involved in this issue for sorx v,-,ry sir:ple reasons. Ong,,
is that we are. involved in dE'si •nin ; tit,-: riverWalk alert:F, tilt ccwe of tl:, laver and
It W3S Ll7f ev.'lt,pment Ah.thori.;:y a liiilt'. time £, O 'hat it ht',. ,L.f' inVi 1VE'a lit the
Cicv and try to d<velop ghee Diver's „dge so that would --vE' 2i CeS`.. to it.
Secondly, We are involved in the Edge of the River F,s it got:s ii, front of Fort Dallas
Park. We ar.,u involved in dt--sihr, of the purk and we have heen involved with property
owners of :.oth sides whc have expressed objection to the location (, the Butler
Building In he park. vlct have l)een `,ivc:lve'a k'iL:. tht' riverwI -tlr: Lail' over five years
and we ..'.k;l."1 a contract with the -'it'I In 2977 L,o o, ,; •'n an: l .,onst-i:ci_ p.?a e lI of
the riven.'alr. iaLlU,:i•_ t:iv Gr2=+ G ill _ro::,L t'e'rt. ').11:,.;. _ :rti. ,..1:SO in
front of the C_-,,_ .i Ton Center. liter work aih!.'l ve the tl, _ YC'Lver'•, edge
parLicU.>_arl, i,. ,. 'i. of fort D.i i las ''lzr:C Ln l is - ur CO:'•1'c'r:,.11 iGl:S wlth tilt: City
stretchivg '.wo y is period, wt SLii;i,c5 t i Cii:i; 8 w_'• ti,,sign the rive•rw;:ik that
we also &( ig;i F.. .'t ..'. _ a Park ;it t: e „1Ch(: L1,7 Ii.31 e the de'$li','. ci the twJ
compat"ib1,:. i;-: dc:'r,,_ a, we have h<_d `isr:izlsions now for a year and a halt and our
kOrK and F,`':1ii tC . cl,u_ ii', completing �111_ riV, rW ir. Li'ttll CO::. rl :.i'"in iJCUiLCntS
done drid con,Y1, t3. with our C ntr.;:tc?r5, beat'., bl'l:_ hcl< up now
for L,ne Vtilr ti' ,.il':r:i. till:1,'r :`Uildln); iS:iUC cir�! Si' ve rl':,i1y c,r.5 hind in
our work and woi.',' _.ku t,. t on wi Lh it. h.; t,cy of hae:•,;r;n:nc! trot:. iOrL Dallas
Park it shc;uld bt c`i.. r In :%i the City un_:er threat Ui col: L':.naticn
110got:iate" th,' pile ll.,: L.I !C Harvey i:]'_tle liouse and property, that house belong
t o .Jul is Tutt!L' ,,. .so:, f of a 1_ one hundr d eighty -:lint, th.)u:,anu dollars and then
clemolished that 'r:]?i'irt;, in 1'04 1 il.ding of l:isioric sijnifica:ice to r.:aktr way for
LhC' CUntitrllC'ti0,h If I':'I t7ii�i;1,'. Park. 1,"l� PUb1i 'Ir 08N ' has
r p p . s.:tteu for file purchase
..,d rcmoval of tl,,it :. >rii' L.l; c:iT12; waF that %ht` park to �zmal1 t7 have both
,fie building and the r r tl- ear •wE r 'gave been w.•rnil:•_ 1.it:1 tne City
and mt�^„b(rs of t::e tii. l _r .0 co:;,I,Un I L�, jr, .ln tit te' 1(lt LO 1Soae ;lI wherE
to relocate th( Butler Tis Parks Department in c'.,tir efforts identified
several ::itea for relO('2t'',i l:ht :�li�nF, '-)Lt after di5cubt5ioll with the
histor{anS -t w213 dE':t'rml:le'. L'.!It :(, '-)Dtion over five hlindred feet from the
existing bu:iidinf, Would he ace: lclblc and the c'I",' option th,it is five hundred
feet from the e-• ist:ng buiidi.iif; is L,'le option in Fort Dril.las Park. So all other
options were discarded and _:Ie only one seriously con,.;idered was the one in Fort
Dallas Park itself. Our research into the question of the Butler Building and
possible alternative sites. We looked for all into possible alternative sites.
On
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Ar•r;i
Secondly, at the process used to determine historic ;:+l.;.ifican..e of buildings
and third, at the activities of the local histuriiins ar.d groups in prest>rving the
buildings we have in the community. We iound, numbor one, that there are several
other alternative sites that are good for relo,:—it.ion of the buildin;`,. Secondly,
that there is a lack of preservation pi, -lining in cl:r ' ; ty Lni; no dett,i lc i criteria
exists for the evaluation beyond prelimir.iry w_,ri( tone. `)y Cc)u: ty hist': iians and
as Mayor Ferre painted out earlier, it wa-, not,•J it the- Bnz-,rd T,:t,':.in; of the
Downtown J'velOJment Authority Whim the c11reCL<,I' of till' II:. LOTl, survey presented
on the Butler BuilCiin�; he said that the Butler P,uildiTl}; i.t,vlf wa,_ not a
significant. building, but that the site was a =if',niiicant sitt anti 'Ile way -more
concerned Eil)ol.- the site than he was about the buildini;. wk., al:,o noted during
this period of Li year and a half while we have been del)' -t i alp, tint- h .t lcr
and while the ':istnrizin have be'e'n conCentrCiting tht'ir On t.G:it, we have
lost in thi, c' -unity several very significant biiiidiligs without T,nc'ti o: a debate
in front of t} Com:-•.ission unfortunatt'iv, incluciin}- Doctor W,.t:,on' , douse that.
Watson lsianci .. named L)ftc---. Tht' fCYr tr 1t i"JO:" o' tnC City on Gr c`--- i Lilat Was
toren down las'c year. Tht F1rc+l-,cr :;rirtrntnt: w,lic't, wii ti,rtn ,�)wi: t.i r..a.� a
parkin;; lot for Flri ,ti}11p hank. Tj} e :tarV hCickell }louse wa•s tore'n 01,'wr. in 1979 and
so on. A numbtcr of historic b!r:',dinc;s, not a i3eep �0--Ilt what siioul,l 1„ipp,zll to them
and certainly of �•,reatcr ;n.f,c;inre t11,.,, riui, the }:ut'1 i;,li,a_ .'.it not
too much Said Ll1Br— We t'lirtiicr lieu (',, t'--, -, ;!i C! !1' l,! .i..1L r,.. iVt'd, the
Wagner li,•meste•ad t1:it was relocated 1\ tltc C1 ,.t it rt?qut,:;t of the historians
to Lur—.lus Pari that, t11at h'IJIdillg (A-'e Vc,"! ,lit",_I: bt•in, uUved to t11at
site an eye sore in that C07aT,1:'11 ", ,nd :i5 1i G Si'T7++1:5 of Ub 1LCt .U11ti iron, me'Tibur,i of
that corL-iunity as to it::, ('01i,iition Ci:iti r11,C nG+a: it Lc; i'.ot L,oviC:u forward
and has not bee-i r' . an(l it's Suestionri'ole wnerc t.t,t mon,?v w 11 C01-ie from to
restore th.it b..: -iRh aiid many of the• property ownerr, ;ground before i.%tills:> Park are
have the s.:.le corn_.t•rns abc'uL the movint, of t111t `uildin�; tc� that site. For the above
reasons togctht•r witli birong adjar-uTlt pr0J-00rt_y' ':)kaer 01.1 L L:OnS the T)i)A and its
Board has been opjl,)be(G tC the relociitiol-I of t.}ie L'_]tlt,r wilding to t1':e "Fort Dallas
Site. The park is very sr.-.11. lt'S at a Very advalit:ii,,et,%.j, ;)UinL Oil he ltivur
where we have an ().,por'_linitV to 1)ri 11L t"le the site. l L, S0 point whore
Vogl h3Vc . . Ull Vie'.: Of Ll,e• .,i :'t2 and i L wr,: ,:,cn a si. 311 park that tlne City did
remove -a l:istioriC ''till 1i:1 ,) 1r,deLCd C".,:;truC't t7.,lt ")tart: SEcollcll`', L:i2 15l:7-1ur
building li .t 'rti 1',IACe'G VTi ttl i'_ . tt' WC)lii(1 )AL oI C:.'Ilte;:t with the bu, ,.dings
around it . WC. .,1-v 1 t.' iii) th 1, i Vt r } rnM. i t where 3 C1C'Je Gl)2r now is planning to
build a nek' 1!0: i r,d w, h.-VE LC• on the ()tl.er 51c,i which ic: the 1iaL:d,•r Fashion
CollegL: \'t'r,, , z�r,,e con, re-te StrUCtL're_' r,nd in i-i'twoc -1 w hope we WC)li:d have a
park will,_!: wvTild pro'-'ide ar, active spaC•' f,-: LC:c r, fits• Wn0 are in Bauder Fashion
C011E.gC LJ- ur.c' !i V:.-11 3s thuse• 1,coplc 11:,i:„', tht riverwalk and tl-,t ri,staurants next
to it. Tllc 1'lii ldl:i as nc-te d Would ",ist I I::) i•ll Of i : _ ilresunt G' :. i;;.i';.t:it.l0:1 or
Colc,nial pc.rch l t:1C t ront in6 the ut, itLt_r of f t11e: --rant and rt turne,t n:iCk to it's
on&inal '-onu.tlJ1: which iti !'t-SCTlClii_lV a two stcry �,Un shack. AnC: it is
yuestianrl:)le w:l,_thEr tl",,iL is arpprol)riate wi,.i+:n the ;"•::rk. iL was ncrt,; in a letter
that Bau-er Fa.,.}tic n Collt-ge- sent to t tit C: L J 1977 L:)rlt t ,: y uXprE' b d o";' k—t ior, to
the Butie', i..int �,oing into 1'orL llal la t ': 'It'd tt.e' ic:ply to t',.c CiL". .. iron the
City to thy;- : t and a half 1 .")ilea"iS a:-0 wd:- <1:: :i 'Ce'CTLt nt to `}:a`. ' Ol.Tlt .i-nd secondly,
stated and .in,_. _. + :d the City Manager to bring to the Coi..imi, sioi,. ,i7.tern.i:ive sites
for the re' watlnl: the Butler BuT ldiniL Tha*c. rat Oee-- Done. tic ,lave only
co::c_entri), :T ,:ff:'r•-s cn one' site. DLA I,,!ar after 3 lcr.',_,thy c,rnsi6Uraticon of
the Butlt�l -.,1 and aftt'r -,rese_PL•'.t. )r by tllc }".lutl::lc C ..v t:R:L\' dEt)_"rmined
that it wab in favor O: .i:iS p rk--t2rv'ition of t1:i' :)]tlt'r i7illiidin�, C,IIL ur?:C that it
1+e 10Cate'd 3^.cit;let' Site.t- the }i:St02'L3T1 . OT.Ic:: ti+an Si)rt 1)ail3s lark.
The Downtown L)"'-!2?lI: ...ltnc)r_ - iC. look.:ng :it .Ilternativt: site, ,1—k ve co.-.,_ up
With several. _ Ui.. re1V".Pb tho-,— w'ltn tnct CoC':.lssion. One that iia, a 17c:rticular
,_-iterest to u5 tn1 location c1 the tC) Doctor .}ohn5on'.: house on
Brickt•11 w,lich is -now the (lomu ui e Made lieri--Ige Trust. This is on1;- ant- site
of about fig,: that wL :.r..�I Auuked aL is detail 1L1:at s;icws the of the
building in the rear vard of Doctor Johnr,on's house. You can ee' t1:at, t- at house
is very much i'1 c}"..iracter wl,,h t1-.0 oL.ler house. They were both 1 Li st w'ithin, .,t_'ven
years of each ofhi• r. IL ',,oui� prov ie ;also additional space with exp,-icsiori of the
activities of both Tl:e 1;:,r.ita8e Trust and the Historic Survi y which are located in
those facilities ncw.
Mayor Ferre: We will siiou- it to you in a moment...
Mr. Kenzie: ok, I... in cl::sing I wciild like to say that the Downtown Developement
Authoritv is certainly not oppc;Ndtl to historic preservation. We }lave been involved
in several adopted reuse studies of building: in the Downtown core presently and have
gone through grants of the National Endowmc,":t of the Arts to move forward on several
of them. We are however, opposed as is the Board to the location of the Butler Building
in the Fort Dallas Park'site and would work with anyone in the community to assist
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in the location of that building in any other ..ite.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, Roy would you show that drawing to Ms. Parker and the other
ladies that are here.
Ms. Parker: Will we have a chance to rebut some of the things that have been
said?
Mayor Ferre: Yes. Alright, make a lot of notes, we will let you rebut.
Mr. Richard Katz: For the purposes of the record my name is Richard Katz and I am
an attotaey wit': law offices located at 1110 Brickell Avenue. My firm is Katz and
Rosen, nhy re.sidL.nce is at palm Bay Club, Miani Florida. I rE,presc-;t ha;:de.r Fashion
College. At p. -:;ent there are six hundred fortv female sti.dentS at Bau'(_r Fashion
with an aver.iv,e ige of eighteen or ninett en years old, w'hun Bauder Fashion... I
realize unforr,t' itely there e-.Xellent security there within t}le c:,n{inc:>. }When
Bauder Fashion :;rst a s c e r t a i a c d )f the proposal for the Da11os site .%,,t.:ra11•; tt:v
were ve. y much .in f ,:tvor of i t . incy worn '_ :lcon_junct ion with the Dowctc;wi. Ut v-1opment
Authority and it ioor.ed like -in advantageous spot for many of the girls in fashion
design to be as soon, as the ',c ioo1 le ,lrrked of the inte•.Iiti on of the '•",-; L., -cal
societ`! to TCCi)TT('116 the' Burin;; Bi.il(;ing i)Eing ovud Lo r11,t* ft' W(: WC're vehemently
opposed. As a matter of fact we contactc_7 the Cnn':ni- i;lr ia*nEdiately and the Mayor
and we received comr•unication the M3yor and Ll _ (,uimnission that 11tL•rnative
site's woul(. be rci'or'Ilr:c-nded, to t}ie b� t of %ly k::Jk'lt'C€,C this has not h:a,`poned as
of yet. ti:it'.:r:,lly, -my c' )neon s not :!}eat Mil('1l .Onccrn with ae.,tht'tics. I'm
not against tii;-,Lnri:al cc., -,,fir t-t1C1-:S. I thc'ufih I would hate sue 1;auder fashion
girl e.nd up a�i. :h il.' ,_,.,::(:i in Dewnt.o i-1, 'alias Parr.. Vie are very concerned Wit:
security. 3aut_.. .'c,E"hion C011ei ;'v a: LC:OU is L!,is is not the roUlte
dies spent ii. of a Iht:nc',Yt t f ; L L`• illi)USillld do, lars ,)c•r annur., t' .'l: ovin�•, of; -duty
City of ' 1.ami Poi-1comen in an Cffort to ID!iint.iir, proper :,ccurlry on L!h(' grounds. From
the schr)ol's ':)oint of view ii is vt:r`' :it}�.'al:raE;PttL'°; to prt"•(alit i!l It'o pror)- I for
lnc0'?lire}', 5tudc+nts L11at an U:-'_'tan area cc) L e,;ct n.atur<,1.1%1 ha' sutfi(.le,.nt
Our main Concern With t}-' I;i:C1Cr l3ui1<', 11 ih (JC i)avr hcen nicrUrC'S that
I have sef_rl concerns very, vcrti' strOl- all Eiu"ienL ." .. 11T.- %V. T , I'lt^.. the
report to tn,� Corxiiss,i.on from the hUA ii.._., so reflt ct ,,s well. 1 .i- r anall\
awaru of ba'.1d1P.f, chit -,,:as l:i(.Vc:: to Dim irl5 ParK h:Yi .4s :tat t.,.,on t}.ou, t: `:,1p aosedly
the funds wort= avaiiahle th .t b'.hi.ldin+; -ill t_lnwl , unalter.-c air were it not
an area whtrf: LnL•rc is no freGu�.'n, tr. l.lic at iiipit t•11. :;:: (C;l:;c a n,L(�.ntial
prohlt'm. Ut'rr;o-nally have 5' Oke•n t0 of Lh: 1 ol)1 c !ii' 1<'c Whc' We du
empioy i _hr' stUtUS 01 Our st, r. t;' of _,Cer3 whe;'i the , are e): f-d(lt' ,-Al they area
of the park which initially way tJ bt' an Ci) Il d area i)r"'JiCiirl4; ill elk,stf.C'ti View
from the water etc., would with t.'he .,7re of th.I: huil(;lni', be c,r,",nittc;y diminished,
shrubberic s t tc . , but not oni_\ that wail id provide a loe.l'_t_: fc.r problems
concerning security, concer :ini_; Sl-,tc fically my client }satuier Coile;,_ ats
six ilundr,�d e]S;}ley-ft)ur students of whi�,li 1 th-:rt percent
of which are rasiden;s and L}:f--:.r par(;its r,rc rc':;i.;cn_., t-f ,r.t, Counr_v, I" r dla. Tile
idea of the i) i''K :-nd the wc1:c-rfror,t areF. . ru,-, rE'L:]iil Ui tut s: Rcer 'i :. f71 :ronL of
me 15 Ch,3C it'.. V aft a pEGtdtr:are Or1ELLCu l`ij�r O: i",Cil1..V. iUr`.".i T' 'alt_11 till in
milid I would thi-tn: Lr;lt this Elain, were Lrlcrt.' a structure hCl't' Of'ii tF r3t illy i 0n lible
security r-ieasurus nii_' iraking it ;ifficuIr to seta in res,) dt of t};e 1ightin.; capabilities
if there way a k 70DI i;'; Lt Would )e di f t jcult f ()r or scc ur i tv guards
to get there to so"_ ,?.. -)roblom. A cuildint; alone, in the middle of a park
which occupies a v-.Lt. r _`.o it., of the park obvio•.;�ly ; osE:; .i amble::. ''t:': to us
the word, huL w, C 4 o ;;;1).•t '_oit(rinb va!:,r,irlcV undici.lci:i`i tn;tt. b,lildi:7c; ]llfiC n�'
t}lest' waiting iol xeL'S ! 1C'i: iL" it's an adval:ta tnUS sit'1;-.Cion kl;i'ri Vol] have got
six hi.ihdred i ort,- r:�rtE c F'n .; ,- old hire:: twer,ty teet and this is a know fact
and I'm nut going to J1' l or t.rlki� up thcl time. I rural i::� t:i- ate ndrt i; rather
lengthy, hu: we are '.c- much olppos,, , to this and we feel thJL w(' haVC dionc our job
conccrlhing support of L.. :kv..'i own art::... We are backinh ,',C ::c>wntc,L. :.:1t:7v'ity
I to the propose to r,,_;ec t s ire of Da! la:: }'ark ,nLi I art aware of a resolution
passed a very ft-w clays aj,o wl,2rein it was decided r,nu I believed signed by the Mayor
that this definitely sho,:lc: not ,e the sicv for the Buticr Builc:ing. And I have nothing
further. Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, w,, wave... t17e nest speaker is Walter. Walter, how many minutes
do you need. Ok, how about t-.hrc,(_0 Yo,. have got three minutes.
Mr. Walter itling: My name is h'altxr rtiinti, ray office i;; at 70G Brickell Avenue.
I'm the owner of record of approximaiel.y 7G,!;O(S s(,uarc feet on the Miami River just
East of the bridge and more or less ad,acenf to the E-itE in question. I have a
sketch here to show you of a prnnosed prelim nary drawing; of a hotel on that site
and I would like to preface my remarks 1'riefly by zavinore of my partners in this
this deal, Phil Harrison and Joe Harrison and 1 are both vt.ry interes-ed in the
community and in museums and natters of historical p rt_servaticn anc v,.. have given
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a great deal of study to the work that Roy Kenzie and the ,coup at DDA has
done and we would like to support that. position. We `.eiieve that perhaps this
building should be saved, but we really don't tl,lnk its place is in this total
area of rather major development. I believe the ont of the things that has
been talked about so much, the openness to be 'hurt b:, rutting
that there and we propose in that overall dtV( �)Tlt:,. C'i :,at prontr'.y •,11--ich is
a very significant property and we dealt again this i tvr;,00n wirh a major chain
on a Note' that would go in this site. So I would liko to urge vou on behalf of
the owners of this property to save that building if you care Lo, but put it in
a more appropriate site. Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: %,night, Joe?
Mr. Joe Bari ist : My naive is Joe Harrison, I live at 3120 Red Road Drive: and I
am one of the c,,ers of the property for which Bauder applicants trustee. I am also
I feel a member of ttie preservation co=xinity. I fee.'_ that my appearance tonight
may put me in the guise of a traitor to soi.ie of frienis over of -_re, Out I must say
that I, in view of my experience with involvea the o..d Coconut
Grove Bank Building for which I have to grit i)c.:..i i..:.i 1ro111.: this vc,y CD1., Assion.
The Biltmore... the country clul) build nc &t the w:-.-__.' �,layed a
rather vigorou., role and in the case of our owls h,-lme _1. - t . i)CL to preserve
after having :,old the nro,erty I. bar^tc, it 3oWi: ri i J a eta.' location at very
considercible cxpei.sc' ant! wu &re row r(' •.tab l -1,1 'i'.'.t, it and rt btnr]n; i.t on new
premist.s, so I know ,ore•thlin _, of t;'iat I spe,,k ar.d I do a,<;rt'(with the preservation
communitti_' here tonight t},at .. not the optilmiim built1iliv from an historic
point of view. S)tri. ily there: isn't a great deal ic•`t o thr o�il,inal building,.
It has been a.i.' ),jtc, and I as ur.•der�tand it at least Troia : information certain
thinks have: .)ec'i, clli-tr3Ct.fC from it and it SCt ;, to MC' tn-L LVali Was
right when he said that there was a good chance that it Would look as ugly a; sin.
Now, Mr. Charlts Pa.:iey -,,,,an in whom I have a i;reat i have a �',re:i: deal of
faith Brit; ] . a T.i<:Ltur Of fact 1 am using n'7, as our cor,:i lring, architect on our...
the preservation of our cwn }„-ire, .,::r I , elieve that Cin%ric's mayre optir:istic when
he sans t11i't tll'.- }.uiidinc; r in Jt' T-A'.0 cl!itili�le in appearance and aLlilclspaere and
character ror L`.7]S location. :%.; t:ir it(,n aC't]vc. park is CC1i10E'rnt'.C, i think that
there art:' GtLvr Way:; of 1',ak7S1Z; tli:intoS �t0 c: j)i'Up i(St S part: 3[i i3Ct1VEt parK and
just wor;uer if this building as distorted as it has become is a proper vehicle, a
vehicle witil enough dignity to warrant the efforts that are being made for it
tonight. Thank you.
Major Ferre. Alright, thank you, very much. Are there any other speakers for the
proponent side? Arva?
Ms. Park(-r: Thank vou, for giving me the opportunity to rebut. I'm frankly very
upset. I'm upset because there have been some thinks said here tonight that are not
true and I expected more of the people who said them. Well, there are an awful
lot of here tonight on a lot t:rings that we hzive heard from. The first thing
I would like. to t'.:ank the DDA for t}lis lovely drawing. I think from tliis vou can
see that the J.i,ui.i:E,' does have some charm I that it's not a. two stir`: shot
gun hOUSC.•ly:i,.,._ what vou see in he'y 1'1'est.TrML s rib"It snacK. 1 Lin mu:,Li'`•
upset that Joe Harri.,�;on w1all) }lay } t-E3ET1 in SLOr1C
preservation iia- b„t•r r":iSled. This is not 70e Ii1i1"r1; U:;'s :3u1L. 71; as; is because
the: DDA has ILOII gel nh a_ 'und cuot tnx I.v.i:, Rcdrigut-z out of CJ7:tt_::t and here is the
exact sta:cmtni�. of Ivan Roerly_,iez and I. would iil:e tc i:LIu it .:o y_l: :),-cscse he is
a very fin, Pi: Wc• a.r•: lucky to have him 1.ere In thi:; Community and he
has worked unsel iishl ' to :)'elp us any to work witL, us. he sa..d "the buildint is
not of major archit(•,tu«'_ or ,i'tstorical momunt in an of i.tsuif. 'it r.a or sigili.ficant
lies rather on how Lijqu'ntly it rill tells the story eigLEy-twn vear; lat?r of
the vc:ry bt--g' nnin�- of t.,e .,.1. i -7 of X i "i.':ii . Titat is exr:c Lly whlit: I ;lave h -i'n saying
it tells the story c•= tile- oteiinnzng of th,= City of Miau.i. Ivan Rt)dritcez who :L >
your D idi' of: ,.c'_�r also said "the sits• at 134 Southeast bc:,�ed on the
above c•rit !ria which �y all r)` this that the historic ct mn ,,inity moetin�>, to,rether
came up with has potcntia :or eiigibil].v for the national rU,,J,;tcr of historic
places, which i.. , 11 -,u t- nee,;; to be... have to big mitigated at,ainst :Impact
with the federal grant. 5.-. I`in very concerned that tht DDA... there was only one
prol,arty owner which w.... h� i3aude: Fashion College. thaL objected ur.tii the DDA
went around tht'ir partii.�'ar racket of in�ormation. The real expert_ on 1istoric
preservation in this room. : ,ntcr-i are_ all tht•se people, sitting right tlt,re. These
are the nnn^le that have savk_!_ evert' ::iiiti'1l taint, in this co7..,ttrity Lll;:t has been
saved for the City of Miami and I t;,`nk to Fay ti7aL they have let so: eL:iing go
down which incidentally was not Harry utLle, hi,. name was Harry, not l:arry Tuttic's
house, that was another house. You do not i',o around saving every si::;ic Ching or
trying to. This is the very point we have been trying to make. This is our
panther in the everglades. This is t};e last. that we have. I would love to be
0 0
here trying to save the Royal calm, that went down 'oefore 1 was barn. I
also from a citizen standpoint we have heard a lot .bout the Bauder Fashion College
and that's a very nice thing to have in T.ownt,�wn Miami., but there are a lot more
people in Miami who are not interestcc in i,,�viag,... building a tax•: free campus for
a private institution. The girls rh„t c': II,! 1(*er ,:,;lion Col lc ;;t cook also
enjoy tlic park anti cat in the 1,ark cu;tt ail in the p,irK .iir:t ivcY:: :'.0 else in Miami.
I am also greatly coarurnc_d about the invendc 's 1.1—It l:rive bek�,l nLuk., at)Out the
Wagner house. The very reason we are excited about this particula): )roject and
perhaps tiie most important thing at all that we can say. Thls is a pt•rftct project.
We '.lave. got a consensus in the historic community. F`e ha. _ ;;ot ab�olutt foil
support from t1ie City Parks Department. We have got a l;rtat deal of imagination
and tho.ight. t . like this plan. 1 don't know if you notice very mu`1: oit their
plan. They h,-ive recreated strectscape. In th-is streetscape we are -IoL only getting
the Butler nr. We are getting, a little ;Niece of the City of Mia:ui, right
there in tht mi . '_e where the rebirLr, i_. taking pla•_e. I ti;ink th::t shows a lot
imagination., a ,_�t of creativity and a sensitivity to what the people who care about
the heritage of Miami are comi.nt from. I wili stop, thank you.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, now I will let you wind it up. Do you want to make any further
statements at this time on behalf of the City of Miami?
Mr. Reid: I think Mr, Mayor and members of t. ie Conn-'..:,:o:i, just to Some it up.
Number one, the Butler Building needs t— F)� ,lv a. Nur,;Der t:wo, it needs to be moved
from it's nresent site. Niirber tiir: _, c_ found a suitable site and we don't have
to sear^h for ait.e'rnative cite ntumbt:r four, the acCivitic's in the park related
to the Butler built:ir_ ;.,,.ea :•,.-nse and it wi.l.l not be a tiireat to it's nt.•ighbors,
it will provid" lritk; for its neighbors, b,.cause people ar' what provides security
as what wc, '_c'.;it; .rltt. And 1 Cninl: t1 e`, wll i learn to love it and 1 tnir:k it provides
a unique opportunity for the CiLy anu t,,e !:isl.i:rlc cOii unity to taike action on this
and we have the t-tniution before you to enable thcT,. to do that.
Mavor Ferrc: Airi, ;t, .rim let me a,,K -you a c,uestion before sit down, and Roy is not
going to be very hap.,y about wnat i' ,; Rolm; t': sav, but ;_ want yol.1 to know Rov, that
I can vote ORE: way a.s Cti.iLinan of t(it• 1.iJ"1 8i1d l.not`-crl ua, ns Mia`,,or. Ai%d I think
there are re;liiV t u;;h CIrcum>tanct-s .. I r(ai.ty don't .`gel teat threaten by th
is
building in that 1, ration and I... my only con.c'2rn i:, that 1 r ,ll do.-,'[ want it
to be a monstrosiry in th• middle of a tremencous investment that w� are putting
into Dourtown. I think thf: 1:1ct thiit it's On the River and that's epe-,ed and the
fact dint the scale of it is relatively little in c•omp<,r,,son to t:ie surrounding
tnc ,.r,l ✓sy I .:,�u1u.. , i f vc,t.e rr, ,tccc pt. Li;is I want it
conditiona-, I Wa' it cc-;nc-it iGn i L . 1, k'.Snt to se-- i . I ie' fix meta i li'( rtznderings
and I'n: ta'_1•: r, .ib, ut ,,erctives of hk-, ' that �,uil:,ins i:• i-:r; t.D 1-)01, in proportion
to others an(, 1 WanL a model .node of it anG I want to n[:()w ehaL'tly how it':' golrq; to
look whoa .t' �11,31iZeC, IictC Ube 1 wallt LO now ei t its ,uc', as I'm going,
t0... a^,C1 1'Gt pr01 :t1 ng t0 el ip vctinL, for L.;1_ tr\' i, ;)ut is _:lis thing; cones
back an,. ir. my OT-. Liion, not C;,arics Fa1.,ley't :); i..., .. ,,;?-oa; eI s eves, I think
it lookF 7'i-. s,oin to vctc a iin5 t ';, � 5 ;;: t it a [ ,. �;,.e, A. that's the only
way that I'm ram. ',L to accept ... -m .lbuut conditional
on th,3t and it 7 iK that it fit :nto the sc,--ne an< c-)nt: tt13t V011 would
use Charl>-s he so anxious rO this, ther: yct' t,et Mr. Charles Pauley
to help d:,-ign t':s w`.,ole park and give us ur:e perspectives and 1 would like to
see what the final ;,r :act is going to, look like before we approve it in it's final
form.
Mr. Carollo: Kr. Ma r, "L weuld i::ke to move at t xis time then with your recommendations
that you have includid that the Butler Building be relocated to the Fort Dallas Park
site.
Mr. Lacasa: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, is there further discussion at this time? NOV, I want to sake
sure that the maker of the motion has included in that...
Mr. Carollo: I'm in,-lucin-. the recommendation that you made.
Mayor Ferre: That we are ,t goitig tc vote finally on this until the drawings are
brought to us and we speci;icaliy approve the way the building is going to look, the
way it is going to look and I'm ;;oing to hold somebody responsible for that, including
Charles Pauley and you and the Department, ok. Further discussion? Alright, call
the roll.
,'au AFn 2419SJ
r
The following resolution was introduced by Comr;issioner Carollo, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-317
A RESOLUTION ALLOCATING THE S:_?', 0' $i 5,000
FROM THE. CITY OF MIAMI1UNIVF.RST1_1._ c MT.kkil -
JAMES L . KNIGHT INTLRNATTONAi_ 1-F %TER I ARI` ING
RAMP CAPITAL PROJECT FUN. TO CARRY :)'_'T 7,11'C
LITION AT 126 SOUTHEAST 2';,) STRL'.T;
THE 11ISTORIC BUTLER BUILDING ;C: FT.
PARK; PROVIDE L T 11,11i' CONNECTIONS, SI:CL'k 17Y
LIGHTING AND LTND17R'I'AKI:; MINOR RE'PAIT ,
.41S BUILDING; AND SL'BS1:Q1 i:NTI Y ;t`t5T ;F:E ITS
FACADE TO ITS 01kIGINAI. STATE AS CO\STRI.CIF_D
,,OR HENRY M. f i.A�;I,I?R ; AND ATE I'HOR i ZIA N6 ';':iE
CITY MANAGER TO i 1'ER 1N7'0 AYY OR
AGREEMENTS NECE :;ARY TO CARRY 0171' THESE
ACTIVITIES, SUBJECT TO C0;`LMISSION APPROVAL.
(Here follows body et resolution, ul;,i"Id here and on
file in the Office cf the City
Upon being seconded by Coln, -: _-:-.'loner Lacasa, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the °;,Bowing vote:
AYES: Commissioner Joe C;:rc:.ilo
Commissioner J. L. Plu:11;.er, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) The:)dose R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
35. PKESENTATIGN BY COCONUT GRtri,",. Cis ."i.i:i'. (r (.. r."•,'..' ;i:t: PP\0TLSTI'.:G
PLAIN TO LOCATE FIRL C01,L1=Gf_ IN OCONL I GA'.1Vi. A!"I' :
Mayor F_,rre: We are now on the 7 C'C10C1r. 6j,,tlTii_'.i c.nc'. w i I i now discuss the
Coconut Grov, of Commerce in the relocation of iAit Ir:I,c,_d rirc College and the
Chair will re-•ogni, e Mr. Stuart Sorg,, the iir. Sorg?
Mr. Stuart Sorg: *1, name is Stuart S.-)rg and I'T.; President of the Coconut Grove
Chamber of Gor,...erc ayor Ferre, Vice-Mavt r Lac,{_,a, t;vntic::,en of thtt City Commission,
Assistant City ;`1aT 1,.',c Grimm, Fire. Chief Brico, T'r. il'-re ton1,'ht in an unusual role
for the President or the C_-conut Grove Chrllnber of Co;n crc:e. I ar.. hurta can behalf
of the cor:m.unit� or Cot.::r_r Crove, its Black -.ts '�.-hite peon-1c and its
merchant and i;:1GL. '; sue i`, t1he pr:�i :;('u l Ire• ..o11b.I_ tC:a' vcu have
scheduled to be 1.. : t 1 i n the resi do nt i al coimiai;, i t y Ot Y i ac. L Coo. -,Lit Gr:)ve . The
issue filters (iO,,,n L, ii few mii�t`r point_., th:.t iorct'full`. 1%1..3t.in :'nc I-lre College
in this cormlunity )ver t_..e 1!nanfl.1t;us O'-,jL'C tion of its ;-vop1t is a fi.i;;ra:tt violation
Of human ri6rlts, that ')\' yi i,; t %,en i'v:,c,.'�E'ri l: Ll t Te .Ol li [ tC 1 , 2Ced in a
residential C01111rtalit`,' yOl. LIe' E31_t.0 Cre.tting, 7.t;I;c'Tt( tl.tre. By )ur ;:(tion _Iou are
reflectinlr, at -111 inc'r-ditl'. i.11t:c atilt iVft\' tc'I;,IICIII;.' 11',L' PlaCi',S and you arc deriving
them the quality of l;ic tilrtL 11;ey in that ar a ar!d t'I:;,t they are entitled to.
You are also tloWT1 ?;r<?.dII,�'. the pro;l,'rty v:11.:c's of 1ht. Coilt1j uotlti 'WhI.Lc anU B:a,.-k
properties in thst .Oi. .f evc:'I there waS ail i sllt t1i:,t coiliJ tt;ir the co^:.11llnity
apart this is the iss'.! ano it iias a f;cod chancy of ing the C.ty Co;:J..iibsion.
This one because it doe:; }la'.,.' CiSCI':IGinatory t:�Vrr L,''i!t•::,, \'()L] WOIliCi IIJL COnSiQE'r
locating this Fire Collet,- t,;, Bav horn Ilrive or Kt•y 1�1L,c ._,yne car C'ai 1 E• 10 dnci
it doesn't belong in Coconur ;,_ovu. TonighL let r.t_• I',t• a Taediator tc: keep out
rommunity united and to pre,�!-, a -)!an of reason anc it,,'ic that is ,:;,ove faction
politics. The City of Miami is at a critical-uncturt ,,n its history today. There
is embarrassment, there is confusion; there is misunderstanding stemming from
' it U 4 Igo
tc!
0 0
Doctor Johnny Jones, the MacDuffie last.;� and now our beloved George Knox. You calulot
at this time ignore this Black issut' anc its iiiportance in the C07-,munity. Tne
Fire College must be stopped tonight. Pr'.•er`:atiun of the Black gust
begin tonight. I would like to mime j_1:- a fQ.a of the organizations that are
diametrically (�i,pc'sed to the Fire: Cc,llt ,fit, -I, the i?lack. com..munity, !.,esldes the Bl.lck
and the White c�)^... '::11C1P.S. the black i-k-roiiant`.i .ioi.,, the Mack tilts Council
the CAACD Neighborhood Advisory Board, Olt !;i.lri _'i.; lninK Advisory i'.oard and the
Coconut "-ovt, CI,amtE'r Of Commerce, roc nnut Grove Ca t`;; b�!Puorts till.`; and we received
a call from HID toLjay ano they are 10t'hin6 the pro ccL ,.Isu I t W.ill,(1 L'( both f0(,11iS1l
and irresj)on,;ible to use Public funds for a Citv -) :`'_'a1 projt::t in .311" eo,.m-lun_(t.:
where the • oail.vnit.y are opposed unanimousl.,,: against 6-As ?roject. You .i; not have the
right to violate these rights of the people. 'Not one cf }'au wo,il(1 co home ttmighL
and tell ,your-ighbors or your wi f t, that ,oil w,:'11d l ocr, tc a Fire Col i r: ge across
the street - 'your neighborhood, not one of t'ou A'! lllrl dc, that. T C',:A--.b(•r of
Commerce corn,:: 5E_fore you with an alternate plan and pr:),lnsal. I:, cur recent
master plan whi(-.n we pre;-:ented to the City COP OSSiCl, cm t_he 2"th '•f 7LTl ruary to
a large degree Look: in the Biack Coconut Grove arLa. wt are re(:o=,icnl in,L' On the
behalf of the people the foilowinF, thi;li;t'; That the Fire College btu relocated to
a non-residential area in the City )f b;i::,r.;: w',cre tilt hci,vy sound Of tr`.:ck t1lt;ines
the envircnmrnta.l pollution and the assoc:_,ted noise %,11, - 1,e L ...ilctrn to the.
Gournunity. "Inat the location for is Fire' Cal le>'•a' l :' Gt'Tt'Cl ,n tl,c' 54th to 60th
Streit art'a wht-re there is l.aa(1 av:,1 ": a}•_ e. T1i,it an,; where a structure could
be noticable in a colanrlrilty that cc'I;d ,,uppty fire fir,!-.rt rs ii: the future. That
the incinerator tructare itse i e toin down ann that a firat Ciy :: vita course
be built with Shatt` pat':- I,,c :i multiple purpose roturit"a 1,Ul.lt in tilt-fidet
jeffersoni,lll tr+'',l :'! :'1 'oe construczed There. And 1r: this house wt would house the
Elizabeth boxing PrU',ram ?nd mak,_ it the finest n tit'
State Of t•10liaa. l.t 5 now loCateC jr, an e:tiraordinar,' t'alllaJlt plC'te of property
on the waterfront. We would bring theatrical, musical_ and performini; artists using
P.A.C.F:. a^(1 other proMotionai orf;a:,i-nations to this rotunda cunstr'uction. The
structurtwould be a proi.'_ C zentc'r for a chango for tho '_.i ty Oi Miami and the
rental funds that wC'ulo tic' irc(ivc%-: from rt'Iil:an; the hant;ct' b'Illu.Cy, out where the
boxing pro-ra7, wrtuld be MC;VOC', CoUld C' t0 ::u:,,jort the Bloc:. CUI'im:'nity. Wu Would
begin to irlllt; 1:n'i7::<' l!' op_-,'t: into the S_� ock co;:Q',u'I:ity t0 u:.c' these fu::_l.",ties and
I'm curt: Merrill. ',trvUns would be "•.,ery inteicst:ed in rontin;; that _`ac-.'.ity if it
were possib1c. i aJ also t',at we establish a multi -racial achiel-ic and cultural
comr.ission. i`. :St lE CLi 1 CCOCt:iSS10T: :Oml: tifiecl OI Mialal )OJ_'j h11i , public Officials,
business,.-,c i anc.i women, anyone deaicoted to of tt.e" 'A'hite or
Blacl.. Thi Co:m--A,sion wGuid be .;urc: tl;.it Olere would be an c'rsanizeii Tittle league
'.laseball teal?,, a fc;Oti)n1.1 team, a soccer pro)D.r: m, th<lt t1;1 C:1'.1dYc. :, learn how
to use the tennis courts. Who teaches tl'em to pla•., tennis on those courts, no one
does 1. rii;llt 110w. Whcre is t1a, Elack vita CJursc? wNheT'fi do the 1-lack ,-LCplC, the
young term-., the young and old adults excrc:iCe Ln(i work off their :aily frustrations.
Tne Wito penult' have a beaULiful vA'ta COUrst'. (^n It:Z`15htrC 1)i'Ve, I:os,illiv one of
the City s most successful projects. '1h(! B_aCi ,, havt' no n'c:t't' to s;e txci, t on the
COrri'r O_ Grin,' Avenue and Doti€'la . Cite' Cie : Only f,a', .::n tC.e Caor"'.a I of C,ran"l r Venue
and Douglas i . L.re release of their tru:,trat_ons which they arc- tntitiec to and
they fru ,trade,,-_. ',.,ad them to pockuthOA snatchin,, and otht r r",ino7 cri:-t,'s ;hot they
couunit. Tt t_z,kes ,.i,ssLve police action to cii:"v:: :-rim,_• in thc: C.rovc in ttic i�l ac.k
sector and it' t:.:, toppt:-d that type of 4rnroa,`.;. We cot;�c. h:lvc' r-i:ilt a 'undred
vita r..otlrsea wL;:.n L:' 1'..:ds wt ;: Ve Cxp,'::dE•d on the cril::e and Crli:inLi that
are burr. in ',,Ia(.•. a: 1','.ito coconut Grove. Wc' are gui I Ey of not r,: roll the time to
listen to tile .._acs oI t.. �:ac•k sec le. The Fire Coy,_,,e would c,_�,I
a_ss
this ciJ'lrlunity, i. L?C'l Ci i'usl C1 :l,t' deeper into all art'as of Coconut grove. You
vE'nLi_CC:_n ..� 'all. ' _L_, f 11It.ill;' for
the creati•)n of cr;t:.. ,ld ti:e condll-lolls in the B1acK sector. i;:e nvopie of Coconut
rove ara, :'re_: n.'� ;'i to bt<4:in tool ;i,t as aarl: of ti a :"c. ra^ to
51:175 LaIlt.i.all j (.Ur(t ... ..i: : ;i the life `,'F_ . ltiE Iit1S L E Our.; ',i C':'li', thi. r'i! L i C ln�: of
low and middle lIl .>,.. 11t'..• T i�la_'KS around the area where the 1ni:InCr,itor
structure is :oc'a-_et:. 1ii L1i3ve _,ot' , o t ncourage th? use of tilrt'(' f.t_l7C: nt N' T ho^e
dCVti1011I;1(1,L tllliaiS. 2:.:Et 'IL':p I't::itJ:e to th,:: Lack (:i; ?;a,I''1tV I7idt' }%j' WJrkinF with
the people an,: lie L al'alinL,*. the people . Coconut Crol.'l .,:'t`t 1 i COCK 3 r. 5] Table
bedroom conrnuni'..y fu-: 31_lcks boar, -,:I in Dade County. Hi• ;�tist h• 1p to organize,
neighborhood groups ', :._ai) the streets, the blocks, the vacant !.c,ts cIe,ined and
picked up.We must be[;ll. ;.:nip a �.i, cK program w tii l+liitu•� and hiar'hti partic!nating.
We must encourage the dt ':: ICi'ITi nr. Of Llle ri4t:311 Se,,'Lor. it' are s'l c,win;, drawing
of a Black who is t;c' ng to L,.'r.,five stor,?s cii Grand Av, nu.• and rt d'r�'t loa it
We must i n ,lL'rcif e this; t.yp '.-L''i;ve1O?)Tnent* to put I. l.I L .' to a ,lundr('d Bi AC1<S i%
the comr,;unity to work by their own a fo: ts. w� Must 1o_ate at the sa:I,t ti*nc
a financial institution or, the corner of Grand Avvnue all(? i)OUV �s wirh an ongoing
retail and residential program soon bonding rt: uiremc:;ts could be lifted making,
way for a holding company or a bank or a new ?ink In Coconut Grove with SiXLec�n
years in bank rl,rketiniI rucognive that a I--isi:`il1t\' titL;c w_21 _,,.h4' that -he
y� �► �R 2 4 '980
wealth of Coconut Grove lies just up the road on Douglas itself. With this
under way the crime watch program then could he made workable. And finally we
must form as we recognized and mentioned on the 28th in Coconut Grove Development
Authority to oversee the development of the Black sector as well as the White,
but principally at this time to direct tl-ie rosidr'ntial tn,d th,-, retail development
of Black Coco 7vit Grove. The Black Oreve is c tvr (-)' master plan areas
mentioned in the a(idr-,ss to the City Conu-il; si,:n , n t1j,. 2Rth, l,e n.u:,t pre!;erve
at all cost the rif;hts of the Black People. 'ii)c 1r ''c_ ;ta;t,t ank their culture
belong to vs. l'1.c'se families in the Early fouri,lins� ctn✓s (if Coconut Give provided
the muscle resc-,irce to build this concmunjty. Tht-1r r ,_,t ,-ilways 1'e a Black Grove,
a pride. Black Crove and a productive Black Grove. I have: rerson311, c:,me before
you Mayor Fcrrt to ask you to _,tans and the City Conanissioners with the cor.eunity
and let us all leave here tonight knowing that there will be a Firc College, that
it will be rely ated and that the City Commission does truly represent the people.
Thank you, ^uch.
Mayor Ferre: r -ight, Mr. SorF;, 1 did not intend to do what I'm about to do, but
I think your s, eech forges me to make, a str.tc And 1 want to apulo�;ize to you
because 1 like you as a person and I respect you as ,i leadv-r of Coconut Grove. As
you know, I voted against the placing of tliat Fire College in. Coconut Grove. However
I think this berause I. voted against it and Lhar loes:7't r,it ar that. t,c,dv else
does not have ti,l' right to spr_ak out, I`Llt fttdt. CC'rtl:i:ll" Vr,-;, , L}ler I-Jrht t0
say on behalf of the members of the Citv of 'I_.,r..l ,ion, that I think it is
totally demagogi c tc> co:,ie litre and. , . . th i sp�at•ch. It' S easy to talk in
plat i.tudes and talking about th- } :-othe-rh000 of hi;icb, and White' An•ericans and the
deprivation of Rucks thnst, _.. . , } er.:i,ti.ons to pi;_.: en and I thiak thr,t wt live
in very difficult 1 would su�',gc'st to r n, sit- t"'it those were', a11.110tIgh
soanding and it _. ,,nding andbeautiful to t.i.e e,ir C,ay pr�ductr as C::1<'}: llC?ri, as 'thev
produce gocd e'SPeL,ially when what it- do,::s tG rals expt ct<tions 1",.,ond i.11e
probability of t}Ie realization of thusE e>:pectitiuns. Aric; I tli-ink w'rk_reas I'm
Sure the intention of your speech was to rou(,,' syr.pat1y and ,.mc)tior, those
that are to vote here tonight. I would suggest to yot. that the ein,tic nS that were
aroused were really on that side of ti:e iedF,er and that if inde(d vc)ur task is to
persuade that the old saving_ which I'tr. sure •;ou arc: vL r,: fLmiliar with "that you
can Cat,:], i'iOrC flit- with }.OnC.'v thFirl -, ,'tl vine4-ar Ct rtainly S:)i:: !.i, iiiC that should
be applied. dOn't rPe:.i,i tO lt`C'.11rt )'OU, t-,1!t I do, (flat iC, the
integrity of th.' S "I to ❑Lll`6 tion Chi:- co;P'li CTic'nt of ion over
many years to i:oronut Grp:%?t anti the im;>rcw,'rienc. of C'oc•,;rait Grove and to Black Grove.
You go to Black Grove and You look at it and you Yo to vt},er ua-its of this cuttanunity
that },ave beers as blighted as Black Gro,!e was ten years ago and you tell me about
the concern that this City in that part.cular part of town.
Mr. Sorg: I have been there four six months Mr. Mayor, —
Mayor Ferre: I have been here for thirty years, sir.
Mr. Sorg: Well, I'm not questioning your inte4,ri.ty, nor the integrity of the City
Commission. I hzive gotten to know the needz; of the Blacks and I'm not ignoring
Father Gibson i;ec-use he has been their leader in the past, but I think the people
who are here tonl4r,` representing the organizations that they represent are standing
behind this i:;sue ar:u T feel it's a very prominent and a very important issue for
the Coconut Grove rc's-.dents.
Mayor Ferre: Thank y�•.l, Mr. Sorg. Father Gibson?
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Ma.1ir, are the others who are going to speak against that College?
Mayor Ferre: Are these other speakers?
Ms. Frankie Rolle: My n:.ins is F-ankie 3olle and I reside at 3430 Williams Avenue.
I have spoken before to the Coruni5sion concerning the Fire College. I am a guidance
counsel at Carver Junior Hi,,:. $C1ic'' which i<, located just arross the street from
the old inc-,nt-rater building. I bru,Ipht ttni.,,ht a picture of old si!,nkev when it was
blown up. We t:,c' l n:,t of the sn.oke for uS. I z p,)ke on behalf of the
schools in the CUI1A;u:1'Cy ,rote on behalt cf tilt ;ItU(':eni ; wi.(? attend tCHonU SCh0015. I
worked as a physical (n ,; I .-;aid bt f. rt back 1:I t94:) when old smokey
was srr('kir;g up t•"C'rythir. ' a"Id (.was ,)ol]!Itc•ti anJ I w' r-J,.'d out tho-re in the open
air and inhaled all the p,-ll ion. Now, rc-r t}1r5,' kin= t.., continue to have to
survive in this kind of situation 1 i,, ,t c cut ;:7'r t:in ': t . Plus, I sat in
on meetings some years ago in Carver Junior li'.F;i St;:ool Au?ituriun: where we made
plans to convert this situation into a crcltural and rc-creational situation and I
am a person who really believe in doing ti,izgs not _just saying things and I cannot
096 APR 2 4 1980
appreciate the time that I spent in that auditorium looking at slides... money
that the City spent for consultants saying what was going to happen and then
come back in years later and say "oh, no we are not going to do this, we are
going to recommend the Fire College".
Ar. John Glory: My name is John Glary anc I'm the Pastor of Saint laugh Parish
In Coconut Grove. Also, a mer.ber of the hoard of Directors for the Saint Alban's
Day Care Nursery, a nursery wh-ich has been here over fifty years and which services
about thr-_e huncrt.d prescho_)i chiltirt.n and the nurser.' is Ircated about a hall a
block away from where the Fire College is to be locatu.I or what N'ou call old smokey
I,,; now located and it is the unanir.,ous, I guess you would say voLc of the Board
of Directors c Saint Alban s and also, the home and school or the llome... the school...
I should say :.h, Parents Association, that this Fire C.ollegt` should not bt located
so close to a iicility providos day care for smell children. We arc: very concerned
the kind of ',ri 'is that will be in tht area, tLe kind of activity that will ?)e in
the area as we:• ; maybe_ d ,trimcntal, I think, t'.-) these smal 1 chi ldren. Se we are
very much against that typo of facility being lo(,ated there. Thank you.
Ms. Esther 'Mae Armbruster: My name is 1',sthcr Mau Arr,hruster, I live at 3350 Charles
Avenue, Coconut. Grove. We have been wnr:,inh tr, iiidrovc' Cocoilut Crcv,' tt`r a number
of years, wily b;,ck tii'gillaint, with till• 'IMCY ; LL, n L•C' ,:,'7,, w11E'r. r was �'!u only
organ izaLion t}la: wa:; allowed to Uc' anything iil l•G �Ve, i eCAI, •r you know
how thinjE wcrc :in 19'6. ;radL.ally did we coo-,z, .:i.)t we could... we have been
able to Sat.'ak out for ourselvV;:. U.- we hav,. );,1:11Lt'v all,} i,aci muetir;,, after
meetings after r uctint"i. 1 0(0 ' - ..alit to bt' '�ut thert-: has come a time
when we cannot wand ari'. ,ate, bit ry, idly by and jutit at,;:orh vvervihint, that's being
pushed down our t, .::_ Now, I wa.,; Bader t. Le li;'y'. ..- Sic ll ,inci :i11 of is }l,t':<` been
under til,' i:•" re. _: )ii th.:,t you wanto'a CICiZE';7 1:;11C1,:iP71L:C)1 Iiew, l you are
going t0 s._ -u,'.g,t: that arid tell u:, tuib is inillh to tie it hi�.:iiuse you are it,
then you don't ,,:'i'] Citizen palricipation, you pan t,,o :: <ln.: do whit. ,', U want to
do wit lout iVc'Il as7Cln8 our participatioli. You don't need it. We art- supposed to
be liv Lng i:' a tree: Cc,untry, free cxpre '-.ion ana ,Ct tirw Sort• cf C'i:e t:ii ngs that
We need as 'Jti.l a:: \ii.:] w,' `.,'a:lt. lil CcC,o:'tut Ode c, not .lav(' liny place at for
the adult �c�t`na, r_ adult r.•.�t'.,inr, T;lt' oniy thir.'w,2 is Virrick Park and half
the tim" r}.i 11'yflt, are .)1L. SL) y0u :1„l: what r!a,j,l ns wht-,in ,:',e lh�:tlt,i are out,
any thii'g can .'la;'r ": whin: i.,ic iiU;I-its a1' Ait. 'YO11 .).,Vi_ 1i01_, .',itt h:_%l' V,Ot dune anything
for us as .-sir a: rail yhuny ad.:;tb. tio.r..'t 'tenor.• yn,l expect tht_ Lo do anything
cxcep- harf, ti,'_ c ,rners. T:,:., i:. rho on ,! .`, i;a U to v 1} �'�lr,�•. „ t,0, is tI".t' COrIlers
to F,IL't:� "lt to their Icel :n8s 'Incl the Oril V Li11I:t; we a.'u 1tSY 1.1 _;'u`.i for is to
cons'_�ier whit \':))i ,-It doing. `:ol.', for Lfle L-,If*'4C ti,aL';. CC mill`; down Grand Avenue
and the -re will be a lot or trail-ic corr:int; down. i`nere will he acquisi_iou of property
on both side'; of Brooker SLr(:Ot. You art- going to r,,yu1rt_ Oic prI ,perty and ,,ou know
that. Thee i., no way in the worlt, you can turn tho::e corners with a fire truck
without the acquisition of those properLies. There are too many 1-1ople. .. right on
the corner there: is one fas:ily, Mrs. Thompson, ti:e hcqripson Family has been living
their for xi:)te, ,, years and you are: going, to have to „"cl,lre her }tr,r in order to
do what y,,,, w.�n' ro do with the trucks. It is s,ric.t'y unfair. And so why you are
making up yoti.- iai.ajs I would like for ,you Lriink, would you i.IKQ for this to be in
your corm :niLy . r Lice you have built a Fire Station down on trip., Boulevard, on the
Beacon Bolls i'J it :, l;!.; Cain t you use that statin i. V :y Can' L you t ind some oL" er
place for Lahr 'i r.2 t'c)_ leE,,e that yeu wai,L? Please do nut put it in the middle of a
residential arm-.,. ses the homy s that an uwntti b\• tt,e pec,,.t,• on the South
side on Ll to N: rtn sid,• of :iashington Avenue, they cannot afford Lc, buy hones at this
particular in t:et: i_. - '.; `.cause of their ages. ;t's i11., Oss;nlc for the City
or either tie t,i ,lnity "',i c'✓.cn tlVc tht:m enough mo:,,u ter t'O aild pd'-' cash for other
houses. Yo :<i':u al . 2,1y , ulred tthGt property, if you I:ave not this wcs In your
minutes. So r, c :se, .✓nc.n you start thinking about locating a college, a fire College
in the middle of a residcr,ial are,, think where will our young people go for activities.
Thank you.
Dr. George Sim; ,on: MN nan,a is Doctor George Sil:;pson and I'm a resident of Coconut
Grove since 19`3 ar',' much more so recently I air, ciuite aware of the difficulties,
responsibilities anc the k,rvat wuit,ht pf pilblic service which is placed upon the
shoulders of our iecr.c:; ft icials a-ni I knew that a college such as this is
necessary. The thing *Jia' L::,rr('S 5 me more than anthin,; else however and this
becomes more and more ici,.: '.,:,ed on ;1: _ as I Bet more 'Inc: m',ru into co:,,munity things,
since I'm not di>in;; asne c-}lulu C'aV. I have been an c,7scrver of
scent: and I don't ra liel't' il. :.;V tWt ,.: \'-t:trti: ti'et:r2'e liavt ever seen hardly
a sitU:itlon wlicre tho entire G:.i::li? n : i1.1;' t.I fl COr::laniL in l riciitc'r LdaS not
adhered to and 11�,Lcned tC is a sit,/a:l•:li 5 ,'; i;, raid. in the more recent
days I can say that when there is all out c:y irvlr, a car ;,unit} by demonstrations or
what not there has invariably been a reevaiuittion of a position ano ..nvariably the
unanimous feeling of concerned citizens all iih tilt_ community are lie teased to. I
M
realize that this is something which has to be done. I know that it has to be
put somewhere, but I don't recall in all of mr years here the unanimous feeling
of an entire community being completely ignored. Thank you.
Ms. Raye Jenkins: My name is Ray jenkinb, 7 ;ve at 0201 Florida Avenue. I
work at Tucker Elementary SLhOol as a second nr"de teachur about one block from
the old smokey building and my concern here t: ,ni; i:t i; for our children in
Coconut Go ve vb} ct. iaily t',nsc• c hi ldrur who f ive in this particular neighborhood
where the prUpuEed fire College is ;stliipC: nd to oc hum. Qw, We all are aware
that when our children leaves school in the afternoon Lht.v do not have any place
to go to play v ':[c re it's •,:hoic some or clean or safe. I think that as parents and
as taxpayers t:.�t it is our responsibility to prov do rccreation for our children
and it is our sponsihil.it} to prott•ct tham from all cf these Fire trULks, and
other cars tl tt re going to bw in out of that particular neighborhood. We have
afternoon schok Lrograms in our :,chools and 2e little ch ldre:n have to Have one
school an go to %ni!t}1C:r school[ld '.ttCGnlly d1nePrORB IOT il-iOse: ;'ftlid%eri to have
to be encounr`red With all of tho,p flr� truck. in Lhat community. And I have one
other concern to... we have four schools legated in front and back of this building
and I feel that it we could ier LUS ruc reationw Suildinf, we. would Kne an
opportunity for tho children to enjoy all cf tho things ch . ve bean mentioned
here tonig1 t a., the boxing arena, a lll.ace fur thcm I& 4nAt :oral get the childred
off Lhe stieut i. II we don't prtvido f o them in. a y 0na to provide for them?
And I... 1, (JOU' t_ }ir give any childrClt, 'or i am a ca;,l,nyoi iiud 1 would like to see"My
money be r pent for something to-- , n c'ti I ore" f I' M - 1 think it should be cur first
concern and then build n F1,v Oliege, but I Mink that yuu could fine; coma place
else LO put the r:[.. ' O" Yge. I know that tO F_ru College is impu:ta'nt and we
need it for Q. icy of Miami., but btill it hhoald "or hc: rhurc. We bhou4n't deprive
our children ett Lhe opportunity to Lave . place, a sate place to )lay; a ! P i' � >, play, a ueC.eiL p13Ce
and get the children off the, Street. it's Metter to provide for then; to be in a
wholesonle place and forget about gOtLing in the streeLS committing crimes. We pay
more ti'OMY Lrylny to get children out of trouh!L than on housing them In certain
places to when Key get Oto trouble than we would putting a nice recreational
facility down rht rt• for them W ruai17 Lnjuy. And 1 hope that you tonlghr will
considar this vvt n though we have al'reau) v"rr:d for this proposed site, 1 think that
we should be able to reconsider and change and put K some place else. Thank you,
very much.
Mayor Ferro: Airight, are there any further speakers
Mr. Gerald 'linker: Ycs, my name is Gerald Tinker, I live at 3601 Frow Avenue. I
thought I would at up here and hay something this afternoon. I read about this
meeting and 11 thought I would bet hero tonight. I was born and raised across the
street from the:: incinerator. 1 live:i across the street from the incinerator for
twenty-two years. I was able to in my day and time secure a s._cure job in relation
to professional football artd I wa able to pay my way out of the pr:,jtrcts across
the street 1 -, m the incinerator in which I lived twe'ncy-two years. After coming
back home and ' c ..., Acre for quite a while 1 have also learned that it's impossible
or I can't even ic-d to live in the neighborhood in which 1 grew up in, I'm very
hurt by tnaL hwLan:;, I'm nOL able to 11Vc in the co[ni "Olty ::rat I Erou up in, but
also, it even V.: m •r.. to hear that a Fire Collt g. is Loin, to 'L.e puL 117 in a con-aiunicy
here in which 1 W4 L, 1 ,. Not only that, but from an On. atoll tent 1 bought a
house for OV LMO j-d 1C cost me thirty-seven thovscnd lollars :i.::. 1 wa, twenty-one
years old at out f .'c _ t c- :?LU, S-.I Y. years ago. RIM now LtJCay the noose 18 or.1.y
w3rth thirty-s .4 _i h Awa,c dG] la.'.' and I w„rdar why the ha.iZL is wa to owy thirty-
seven the.,v n :..' doll . -s Wcjl, 1 unci rstand the nature of the crim, t .at' the
area. I vglersw i d t— nsuranro rate in the area is Very high and iL OYS it not
applicable Or big : un i i;e:,;, _ to con. in and Want to be t ere, hut 1 isa find In
educated ter a in � : w tie c 1 u u
��, �. � f feren� t.r ra in 11ari.i to cry to ge,t Z::1.1.,C1i11 :i�-.i3.L:rCa
I find that it has " vv rua l,.it.d, i can't borrow any money from anybody. I C'c: n'
think I'm too ail to... i c•.Me f1_0 a. . you can call it the, ghetto if yo, like, but
I. think we Kcuid h, ei%ar a chance, family should he ;given a C}.2 ace to possibly
be able t(' ILVL in i.tOL community VccauHe° 1 Jo plan to Stay there a"c Father Gibson
Can attest to thin, ay -Atncr trlis been ther'. sixty-two yearb, he e,nv in Lhe early
twentUs when he was ju L jruwir.g up. And I teally feel we should civE the Chamber
of Con:n,erc.e, if they Are L. t_ ,.nd SQl wre about the thoughts that LOY had here this
evening to King in financial Ksri tltions and other cultural evvnts that posgihly
can help in the economic, the. O i.tal o_ financial side of Coconut Gr ovt.:. I hope
that we will give them a chance LO p"t this on super and come forth. Thank you, very
much.
A. P R 2 4 1980
0
is
Rev. Gibson: Fir. Mayor, I trust all v1-L7 the Peop1t, wli-lo are opposed to having; the
Fire college built have spoken. have YO'A si.i spoken": ("k, I want all of you to
speak who want to speak that the Mayor 6ay6, you know... ok ...
Ms. Sarah Askew; my name is Sarah A-,'kew, I live at 3525 Flcrida Avenue. I was
born and reared at 3'043 Washington Avenue r-i!,jthe C c) -n ei t on th r -r of brooktr Street
and Washionton Avunue- The.projxi:ty owr�u xa
-h%, —
bl,- 71-omp,-c�.n. She has livei.,
there for SiXLY-:our years. She is now vUdrs aid. I feel now t' I I,, a t
you sjj,.,jjd not b ri-,g a Fire Col ic�:, a1 t"Ja t C i'�V are 110t 011, n
of the residents there, but we ore Fpeakir,t Oi
children. but we arc speaking Of all c"1*1l3ren lu-,3caue ti-,vre u,c 'navec 3,i:inish children,
I now '-- l
White Children,ijci-en, children )L all n,,tionaliLieS -1n, the arca and - stili- fe,.:
that you Jijuld not bring this into the neighborhoo,d because you are uprooting my
my mother atd many other people in that area. Thank you.
Mis. Betty Ache Parker: 'Nly name is Betty Annu Parker and I'm the President of the
Carver Junior lji;,h School 1I.T.A. lsu feel very upset about this Fire College. We
are very proud of our school and we feel that a Fire College does not belong across
the street from a school.
-
Mayor Fcrre: Are there any other speakers at this t!17.,--' will ;l.\,e you time to
rebut later on if you want to. You would like tc., :iay something? Alright?
Ms. Leona C,,oper: 'Xly narie. is Lec.ia Cooper and I 'Live at ?00 Wa4-,hing,:on Drive, the
golden gate :;,ct-,on of Cor, ' 11 - C,;,' 1-s. I -)w7, property in the City of Miami and I
urn yo-,- are fl-,imLliar wi,,!�, me
represent r.x r e,- --ill-le 1 come dow-n ;;ere.
by now. 4 s %,o--,mi,�bioa and allso ti.e" a: 11,6ard thU Fire
Colle"C -'n tilt Coccnu* Gr,.;VL urea. i. fi-el tliaz our '.Cole woric-1 is
Upon U.- n3vin, L6 Luke c4rc of the whol,2 City of t'link we did our
�
when Wt., tOZ)K C-are L,f 0-d W� LOOK 1 carC oL the smoke and our cloths has
to ay, 11 we never 'iiad tlilat L'iini; until the ne-4,'.'-ibcrhood
in tht- are; ceci"'eL: to co,-,:,)Iairi about it oecause i, was affecting thuir
-ti�Oul aw Ivs tLI,Kc the
i-a.'r 'L!7,;t we
living con"Ht-lon C.
burden. I r:,-,-,OW Zhal it
here' i)ne a t
- -L � " - , o bt:- are
but 1 doll' L U:'-I% We L]Wily-3 'r—� '1
a very protty ar,j 01 Xlj--m- �t'OSL
7 then Oi it
c a u s I-Lu
ii.-iru tnt�-;,-, , L' art Ll
as a VL'r" '0 1: , I call
where T. ji.Vt- We d.iWdVS , P-;V,2 It-L) i1 vk: 111 oi the ut -il ity
the garbage I wou; ia dl;C) like to u jv 0 n-.v chilirc'n A I L: a C y
like most ol- you on z'E.e e,ivt- for your cli.i1cl-ren. You
would likt: your proo,'rL} to be upi,rauu U` to L? to , . L� 11 o:0 - y ur
kids, you kn,w, Jr have somuthiiv, to livQ on. YOU kl-, w, lik the man scated
earlicr the -.roper.l.y value do,-,L; nz)z go u-,), if down Lj(,CaU"k! of the
crime and the re.: 1111nj; ;.o.- the insurance, e*.c.
this. I don't think it's quite fair for us to -lie City of Xiami
is a vary large area and 1 think ii:, 'or-.-.t-r d-1*bci.,-,!-;,cn-, ",),I sai-, thit ,,D,,; wt.--rcgoing
to snare' this f:.1c.,lit,7 with Lh(-- C0LnLV X1,1 Ot,",L.k CtV lilcl,, I*L1— tZir rr,iining
of Fire -men a,,-Tolicemen, so w*,-Iy cctulu-:n,t WC ;-n"4 a z-,p':A- z,.-.31Lb L,0-:"C re out of
the City or in Lhe City 6o;iie where, L'S Yi,-It :— C.l�-'- i
-r y �;,D c, d - rcibc in
area to ',It 're College. I think it uoucl '-1, a L X,
for a &--molition �f vo-u ut•c that site as a traininf� site rather than doing
what y--,t4 are to do to our community if you continue with the line of thinking
that yoj have. lhani-. yc,,: .
Mayor Fc-rrt-: is there anybody else who wibhus to speal , at this ti-me' If
Ljot the -Z.air r: i.zcts ,r. M,iyur of
I'm &,) 41,-!, to do a 600t2 po I itician wouldn' -,- do, but 1 love I live true
to what. I believ,.,. Tc,: (if -hose of you who do not know, 1 want 1.c, :rake you
know why i fecl 1 &) ar.rl I WanL to really put the: Story strai,,ht so you I - Di I Ow
me. I happen t: a 'Li ve o'- I pastorc-' In bi:-Icc tl�v first
day of 11-,i',_to',;er cat of -" t2 tee 'I" rL-' t, lacy. know of the
people... all of Crtr. 1pcop!u with t:,u Vxct pti,.,n c;- in the Grove
has every fanil) th,:-. - kvt TL: . -)o ti-L .-,L r0l,.b, five a-,-1 ti-ioSe
families have '1-+i, 1-f .. -1 tO 0-6LS'dt- T-01*1CL6. L �D i V C, i. L* 0 1-1 ' L k n OW W1 t a t Chit
is. That'. when t.-- .,an :umes wi.h th-f so well
F 11 z ab e t h Vi r r i c ianu u h t t L wk' 'CJ E �L %L.. _ L LIn . K6. Aftcr that wt
got sewers, at ter that -C jJaVL'�' and You are talking
to culprit right nt.,rL or i s 1'K 1z: L..� �Ai'�; W!,C) That, C"r-1.
A lot of the se -1-L)PIL: you hear.. sN v rig,,`;.t now wi'-c are thought 1
was a fool in those I -L liOU"h Lh,�!L t-Scy know am
Ei, 2 -`VL C 01-1 C
not a ;ool, ok. I want then, to know t'i-,-L -, i -'ut My .on the line than and I
will live that way until 1 die, especially if 1 what is seine advocated
is in the best interest of the comnunit%,. Le: ric you sonie ..cher background.
fit
r-` r-S
The land that you are talking about today I happere' to have been the Pastor of the
the church who :;old the City that land. : happen to be the Pastor of the church
who sold the land where all those duplcxcs are. I happened to be the Pastor of
the church that reserved out of the twenty-onc and a half acres of land that we
own in 1945 right around that site. I was a Pastor, we sold the land for duplexes.
We retained five acres for the future location of church. The School Board
condemned the property. u gave to the Saint A:C<'.r. School People the site that
they new nave With the followin,; sti;)ui,�cion; tiur,bl'r one, th:lr. as 1ar,�, as that
tive
property is user for a school tfit V kll ihave the Lind ,and ny L.Sit> Ch,' I Ci TlSe -IU
years it WOL11d revert. :Number two, the Director of C,.r _st. Chllrcn wit l a_ va '� be
on the Bo_irt: or his designee, ok. Ail around where you are talkin,; ah:,uL is an
educational C_)mplr_X, YOU haVL Carver l?lemeatary School in that (-Ilirection. You
have Carver 'unior :Ii�;h and... -it was Carver High School tllt'n Carve:r Junior High,
Carver Mi it Sch D,)l or whateve..r tile'y call that and then this Way is f ro-:ting on
Douglas Road Tucr:er r leme.ntary and glen Saint Alban,; and ',ou ne.,�_e; to know right
on the Corn,--- of C;ranci and Thomas wa.7 the cirt'ctcry t_;:at was bui.it for me to live
in, ok. I WiLil t:Lroul.;h a ploccss Whure tht Scllool hoard condi;llneG the property
because I filet} a suit to i;,terg,rai. ti-e school system. So you are ta',king to a
[Tan who ha.� 't litl l,.i dU(-'S Wno naS -IVi'tl a lilt' of sacrifice,, ok. Yoll eed tO know
also that 'file n i :: irSt Went t,, tit' �', rovo a01't1 V thereat Lcsa. e
people who arm' here al: Of tlle'ir voices w r.. i:, _ Ter con?,re_-ations
and 5^vi;t :O:l':,rt'F.at.i:,nS ,.. Cn C:OStt: 0 t1le lnbti...._—:. a''... & -n},, t0 TLF'i:t on tr.,
our chur, ,% hecaust' We were about f'_" yr _. '] o,__K; ;l-.;ay. l)n the corner Gf Grand
and Douglas you have Your .jar: J::c, two, three, Io'.lr. I Look t ,e D<r over here
to court, couldn't s�Op so wlicre C1Se in the City :o you have four bars on
one corner. Lister; God is .:;t cL'3_u. God i9 not sleep all. ,,ou have to do
1S t0 b1C:e yU'.,_ Clmf'. I Look- tliu 1'.icx'; t0 CCu, t .^Qu1dne Stop him, OtC. Y0[1 know, What
I have l i eu long LiiOI:E'.:e in tile: wl., iC l,O t. llil�ti :ipc,n. Hi: ti,,ab closod C.:1Wn
because come the lsL oL .runt that: ru.il ou wic'_c n. yLet rile'v eel i Yoll t`le ot•ill'_r
part of the stor%'. List:,n to Ll:is, ..air Colnty Gas alrtad`: decidt'd contrary
to What some Of thin piCL,lre yell hear lade CGunt;•' na;; a,-ru auj .]UC:•.10.d to widen Grand
Avenue, yes hranG AvenUL: . .;7n1 Dou_j,,b dow"il to t :C .; :1001. Thi.; l:_:vu airt.atly takt:n
all of the ;)roper'_, On tl-:_ left han'1. . on tl-.e- JCuL:,, iue of r .rl,i Ave. Inu , .;c the
collef,,,Q c,oing :Ile rt .... wlnat they arc t.t':1 inn; ,,oil is nl )t ,1 true' _Ci-:rt'. The street
will 1.)e Widen an.' -way Meru is no Co',,ll)t about tc,:t. Everybody•nati been given notice.
Mr. GriT:-, Will Lell you that tht,contrict w_il be lot ne::t T:',untn an . that .,:e Worr:
on LhaL widt'n.lag, will beLin in J...:C, o.<. 1.15ten to this, old b:,J a j wad ')UL there
on _. two anO a ha;f acru5 a}',alnit Lho wishe.S those sa:.,i }:eOp1u , Lit there. Some
of therm lTl t.lo;;t: da.'s didn' L have e::;e' mitigated tall. nGr nervi to Speak up or Speak
Gilt, this F,,L `> : Q, c1, . I di(ln' t wa::L it th(1n, I woulQn' C Want old Smokev no .. The
only rea,.on e,li s .Or-ty isn't Operatin', IS ills' knit(: peJpit- 1n Coral va7ll;, because
t t'"' were _'r.1id that their house:� We 1't _(i l to ( E JurllCd d0'i Wc'nL t0 court .and
h a d i C �J. Ll". Y011 have 1:1 that Jl.l l :illy; L crt.' hU11C? iS�^ Cli.lt'S WOrCei at)prG:tilAi$tely
thrttr: husi,rtti twLnLy-fivu t"1l011Sanu C1011arS Olt L0t1,-1V'5 ..i'ark't, you art' talkirc, about
high takes, tl-,rowin, away you- monoy, 'JOLI :are ta.'.kinl , abollL a Ln„ it as a r;�T,l<<dSl.lim
and a",l t, that . You gy-,i ovter :;ire. Don't lct me untie vcr what I think the
real rca., i. I .` r nloviT:,_, t-e, l;y::. rc,m ..^.i cu 'c-;-. trlerL. I'm ilor. f,t ii:: to deal With
thaL, ot_, hi_r : _: to this, I fine it ::arc, to ur:d',rstanQ1 ',,;Liy r.y Llack brothers and
coa',� 1..,1'rstand that a Fire iiC ;e aLa b:.t.'r tl.an -1 i.nclilt'r.1Lor. I
find that h._rt . _ _en to this, tell y,.� a�,i:.. 1 p;s; _._. 1`. the telly
play area i.i t.... h. :c... play art -,.as ii, t .t. :tOVe. arc T':k:..,..,. i7'1 tRt' l.lt'.' OL
Miami. lEr parK is �d,:.''cat to this 'DuiluinL',, over lit t''lrr4c'- P;.rk Cn_re :is that
park over Lhur(e. T:,i'y tul <. 11)OUt a rucreatl. ?T', ,l :11 „ j,: U ,_.. C "lave a building
over on :'irlic.0 1'::rl•: a:id ,3n::tu.:'r building and w12-1.... i e?itln't di=:turb you. I
don't want you %': ``Jrvin:; me, l want you to kllt)W OW )?t1e:IL. I W3S. T1il,lt I'm
tryini; ':o Fe.t you tJ see is their are confu>iTiv. i..C't .'.:t r.akc .incL'I_:e'r r. i erence.
You know, I have lives through to the. aced Or Lh._ e.Ca L.'acre t:h.r.' writ daV1Or,
do you and^rstan,-i .,.:dL ,.-.,-an by ;:.i'_? Gh, yu;, poll xlu,'.:iC :O 11nt:_r:>r:itld. don't
know how they just c..ol; U, all OV017 i:'_.'i1t,l jhFii_l neV.:r LOr. e'L L"hv first OntciCt
I had with the .;rate cc,.:.nu:,.ty in 1-1l - went ud
let me speak. Virrick .,aid to ,.e aft,2r i zot throuj;ll :pea::-..M,, t:.at night,
She said F::t1ier (.1F;.,C;, you Let as if ,u WerL La__1,inE,tO c. In thoSu•9' - a.aCK
folk didn't go u�) t: the• A.:,erican I.e, ,,on to sp,-ak tcl.r,itc'.,t� . iolb_, but I bra'.�t'.. this
storm and I went. :,.c LL'Xt ;horning ',s. Vi_-1-ick came tra.kin�, duh-n to my of: ice
their at the church .'. r: I :.O' c l l?" I Sail "` cs, you 7uy dear". We have bec-n
friends every si.nct_. :,n •;t haves c'.l:i:, ;,'d the GLUvc. Let me make this final
ob;iervation. YOU Sri? al. `icst_ 1`, ",',le out ncre? YOU hear all these people here
talking? All of the problc .y Lilt: that eXist;, anti !-,ive been existing,
note, I am the only guy that spoke: Out ac,ainst it, so much so some of them were
fearful of my life. I said well, you know, I lived a life all of these years in
the Grove of putting it on the line and that it's too, dcggona '_ate to bar:: '-,p now.
I had the whole Police Departr,rent out there,I had the Building Department Gnu i
100 h ;' A `-+ `= lye
r
Gon:rary to what anybody
had Zoning cut there. They know twat and
"� • k. -�. w'aat':
would have you believe, the situation �`i L.,u GrOvC rihL now is better than it has
been for the 'aSt fi�.'e yt'ara bcC,il:Sr L 1 the it' j,ut ftlt'iC SO all
so in jail for all that do;)e pcu::i i 1", all these other thi.. ,s .;trine, on around
here on the corner of Grand and Jou',,1:, and all. arounu. Ii. you put that Fire
College there let me tell you this. Number one, it will be the first time a
major institutL.1n of any kind ownt'd ano o,)er:itetl by tr.c. City would be in the Black
area. They Will .laVC to keep it up. lu" 'tilil-i,'1Ve ,.:.icCe _,art Jll , ,low, the
proper surveilance is there. Anal two, cno:,e dCKb Wno :i:L Pronucl to
stand -n those corners want be able to stand on thei:s, t•r,ey will h--vt' to ;et away
from that. i,2t r.:u speak to thL hou,ins;. You ilav,... ::0u the c:t:yen•, cf the
City UL Miami Voted a twenty—five million aoilar bond, part. vi that is
agreed t,) }_.Ip some of those peopit_ to move and he relocated. .%-h:iL ,lobotiy is
telling yo:, is most of. those houses that -people are compla,nin,; about and treasure
some much; ' f the City of :Bali had done it's job in Ywusin,; witil Llie exception
of three, a of they, would be condo:r.ned, if I'm a liar I would de-y anybody to
get up tl-:er, and call me a liar hec:i,ist, i wiii name the :reuses. 1 know wha: I'm
talking about. 11el. Adams contrary to wna` would 1 eiie'JL U'uUost
happy to help the people relocate. 01,t� final comet-,ent, Mr. :Mayor, 1 want you to
know that some of the people who are ;-sere tonight live. in Coral Gal.'Les who art.
talking about lot wai":tlnl us Lo put our r irtc Col:e:,,,� t(:QIt A: :', .tJ, .n:it, those
same pt o-:)ir', tho , a, e:); _e cc:, w int CC: al ..''i} _ L'''. L0r Over
on 1 h .;hw y. .:lE; ar�n t Le�l_'li; ,'ou thP., at. I'sayi'i. t0 tip E' ^L"bee:i
of this : c,-.-. Mission Doll C �1avtoyer'1i 'iC '_ i 1C;:. i. 1JVE . Sort;. i apprcciat c his
concerIl and int rust, but 1 Want to tell vou Xr. Sorg you live'_ with that situation
at a distances as m`' fe...l." �.._.:iS:-iOili TS. Six years .:.go 1 bou ht a buildin.; permit.
I'm living in tnC 1011 b0t to t afk "bout whit you heard. d. You need to
know that 13s u _ t r_ vvull t::GUt;}l C:'p lion died an; 1 was .n },r1P_f lit? 'k ':Olk W, re O
my door i;: Oi tne: nig,-,t aSKii.S :or l it`. w3i1L to te1i v_ all my brother
you read about it, you near about it, but I live it. i want t0 urk
�;e this COii1i5310ri
for the ✓eb. .... _:"t St (T il.t' Cit, of
_'il i,::. frill t 11ill that ]rE':'_ t0 pllr5lie
the build:_n„ of t,nis college as y n u have already done and don't turn around. I
offer a motion :•,r. President... Mr. Mayor that we. proceed.
:Mayor Ferre.: lather, I don't thini: that motion is in order because the Commission
has already voted to proceec. The only motion chat would be in order would be a
motion to rescind the previous motion.
Rev. Gibson: Ok.
Mayor Ferrel Alright, Mr. Sorg.
Mr. Carollo: Mr. Mayor, if I could have the opportunity to make a statement. Mr.
Sorg, I even though 1 think your intentions Were well intended this evening, I feel
that you made a lot of Statements that were really incorrect and improper. For
instance the... Number one, the parks that we have here in the course's I don't sec'
any sign~ there that says for Ca_holics only, for Jew's onl}, for Protestant;, for
Blacks, :.r Wni',_es, for Latins, these phr}is art- for 3': i the C; ti'e ifs of :Tiami. Our
boxing prc+;:ar:., our gym, lL 1 recall corructly Lac :::a;.)rity of the volln; -,,,en that
have gonC zhrou.,ti that program Lnt.rC }lave beun !)lacy. A. tar as Doctor
Jones ila': , :':r. .;t..uffie's, Yr. lCno}: i GOn'LtCL ii:iS t0 CO unvt}',in,, with tae
problem wG h.:vtl ht__ now. There wurc four V_..eo 1.:. .,..3 C .mil ._._4'i1 .}13t JOted for
the Fire Collet;k.:, c:. _ vote against. I was one of L:^t;:,, that voteci for the `1 ;rL
College. An—', tr.t : cisc.,: that .1 vJCGG for mat: : ire C07_1L1;t_ wCl:, t iut 1 .'a., unciEr t':e_
impression. that I was `gild _v, ry,.hinj; pertaini-,,; to m:: akin.; zt' deci.ion, everything
that I nek' dE_G `o ta'ow ,n b true ..:.,d ccrrecL WaV. 1 naVL been _,ogle information
31n0e C le'' V'. mac(:' ,-I ' t _tl. is the i of i owin)' . T:ia t:lc r,'.tS0 1 1 ' 1ro
Colie.,e Was pickL:a _ : go in to it location Was C our uity
wanteu 1L there. Znh. . .. -e were.. "uI' altern._,_1Ve5 ttl:C phi:, C—t` :G1:ld :la:'E' flicked.
Now, if that is so tf a'.. 4'J it c lrtdl.n +Houfd ha''= haG a .'neat affi-:'t ,n r.y V,,te there.
If that i5 the c.:se that .`.a<, .::er _.)C`t_U1i5 t:.mot we .'O':1,t1 have plcke(a, .or c,ry
would not hive v3teZ; in t}1•2 :71dllllcr _ .af I dial. Now, llnfortunately, Ol:r Citv ''11;na_,cr
is in Brazil ri,�nL i:.7W .,.-1(1 he is .lOL ncre to ;iiv5wt•r mt,, Ovrpl:ir: Cerf...[1}` l :t t1.t'
opportunity if our .%oy 1.:1 Brazil. _'ver cumu3 bdCK t0 C :'i' `..11:1 answer to Mc or. Li,LS.
Now, there were iour '.'JCt'.:; fcr the til'r COile€e, one a,.,a:nst. I (lon't feel LhaL
it's ri;?,nt I'cr me tt: .1S :hie to deft'r tf._3 until M:. Cr,,s�:e ^t is back
and I have the optportul-. `, Lo face 'ail., WiLL1'_ tni3 and ,.'t 3n any.wt'r fro,ii hie,':. 1
don't think it's fair t( give• you people. false hope unless one of the other three
members of this Corrliysioi. t::at vote:i for the Fire Col:ei;t, t lent, for I'm sure
their sincere and well founded reasons has a change of heart Sc ,.i that
is now the case I don't think it's fair to give the people here false hope.
e.
Mr. Sorg: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Ferre: I think... Mr. Sorg, yes and after that we really must go on. It's
almost ten, you know we will be here until one maybe 2 o'clock this morning and I
think... I'm sure you have sympathy with us xor what we are going to have to
go through now. So let's get on with it, huh.
Mr. Sorg: Yes, sir. I appreciate Commissioner Carollo's remarks. It was my
understanding that at the time of the vote there was an alternate site on 54th
Street which is still an alternate site and I...
Mayor Ferre: Chief Brice would you please come forward please.
Mr. Sorg- A-d I could only get this from the City Commission. I would like for
Mr. Grassie be here to verify that.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Grassie is not the only person in the Administration. Ma'am
could I ask you gust for a moment to let Chief Brice... Chief Brice, the question
before you sir and not before anybody else, you speak your mind and give us your
opinion now. Is there another alternate location:'
Chief Brice: Mr. '•:ayor :nc CL.:SIlb: lOi:�T:,, w: ll _ cL approximately a yi:ar and
a half to two for a slit,_ z!"at WO. could use for a rir, College.
There are six mites gnat wt'_ e xplo--ed. io_�t mite and I thin:., the one that Mr.
Sorg is referring to is t11 tc )f the old shell city area. We .,:ere not aware as
to the status of that: ..,L:li .Mr. Dewey K-ni,,ht of C-e- County wrote us and told us
that it was not available. When that fell thro-,gh there no other sites available.
Mayor Ferre: Now, is that your conclusion or is that Mr. Grassie's conclusion?
Chief Brice: That's my conclusion.
Mayor Ferre: Well, did you tell Mr. Grassie or did Mr. Grassie tell you?
Chief Brice: When we reached the point of exploring six or seven sites and were
unable to find one, I met with Mr. Grassie and was telling him of these difficulties
we were having. At that point we had other sites. This was given as an option.
They asked the Fire Department to look into as to whether or not it would be a
site we could use. Myself and Chief McCullough went out z..her, spent tine afternoon.
I sent my Fire College staff out there. :after a. -out a week off looking and evaluating
we decided yes the site offered not only a good site, but an area that we couicn't
build because of the stability of the building.
:Mayor Ferre: Alright, now in the interest ladies and he.ntleman, I really don't think
that anybody is going to change. We have had one Dossibie change. I would like to
ask if anyboc'.y else wants to make a motion tinat tn(2 previous mot yarn be rescinded,
because if you are going to make a motion then there might be... there will be
three votes ceause I will vote again, the sa-mc wt:y ane: then we c an rescind Choi
previous motion. I'm going to ask is there another :notion to ru cind? Is there a
motion to rescind:
Mr. Carollo: Well, ':r. Mayor, since Mr. Grassie is not here. to answer my question
I have compete faith in the word of the Chief up to this point. I have no reason
to doubt his woad. rc,.!L er, I do realize that .le works airectly under the City
Manager. My feellr,;s nr�� the following: That I stated c:v p;,sitic n that if this is
the case i would no, have voted that way. The City `ianag,er is net here. Therefore,
that cannot be answe. rn,d. I don't want to carry this any lonz;,.r , f there is not a
third voter and ,ive tl,,,se people: false hope. Therefore, I will present a Notion
now to return... reverse cur position. If there is not a second for the motion,
then it would d i e ile i:e .
Mayor Ferr,.+: Alri},ht, there is a motion now that the previous motion made to proceed
with making; the Fire College... not to put the Fire College in Coconut Grove. Now,
for the purposes I think so the people... so we can vote... do I have a right to
second that motion?
Mr. Sorg: Would you repeat that Mr. Mayor, please?
Mayor Ferre: The Notion is to rescind the previous motion Mr. Sorg, that's the
motion. Alright, I will second the motion so that we can get this recorded into a
vote. And I would like to call the question.
IC2
P
Oh, you wan,: to dl�cu�s .L.
P.
Mr. Plummer: I hope that I have the right, I have been very patient and listened
to everybody and... Mr. 'rice? Ci�ic:f Br,',:e, ,-ould yuli come to taU 'l__, O- cne
again? I want to ask you the same i asked ycu bclrore. The aw l Gut_a.1011
you just answered before, but more pointed. You made the statement before_ that
after every possible thing had been discounted, every site had been discounted
this was the only site left available to you. Do you still stand on that statement?
Chief Brice: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer; Thank you.
Mr. Sorgt But there is a site available Mr. Plummer.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Sorg, my good friend, my good friend you are not the Fire Chief.
I have good "lith in you, but not when it comes to fires. When it comes to scuba
gear I lovt. •.0 and you are an expert, but the Chief doesn't dwell into the scuba
business 4-d ? don't think you should dwell into the fire business.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Sorg, just for the record. What site do you say is an alternate?
Mr. Sorg: 54th and I-95 area is available.
Mayor Ferre: Well, he just explained to you that, that is not available.
Mr. Sorg: But it is available Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Why?
Mr. Sorg: I don't want to go in... I can't get at the source, but I know it can be
looked at. It's available now. They were going to build some low housing on it.
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, let me tell... let me answ(,•r this. I happen to be the Vice -
Chairman of the HUD Board. You need to know that they have already a6 e a commitment
to put a hospital there. And let me tell this pu,Iic the ki11d of games played. That
George Simpson cone in and tell the rleople you are trying to get t'r,a college.... the
hospital on that very site he is talking about nutting a Fire College.
Mr. Sorg: Father Gibson, we realize that, but there are other sites in that vicinity.
Rev. Gibson: Well, you know, I don't want these people to get their hopes up now and
you know...
Mayor Ferre: Well, wait a minute, you are not telling me now that you want to take
it from this Black residential neighborhood and put it...
Rev. Gibson: To another Black residential neighborhood.
Mr. Sorg: Taat's not a residential neighborhood, it's sitting by I-95.
Rev. Gibson; Well, come on fir. Sorb, let's put our cards on the table now. I don't
want deal with that gymnasium, ok.
Mr. Lacasa: Ok, furche- discussion, call the roll.
Mr. Carollo: Can you r`peat the motion?
Mayor Ferre: The MOL1.0111 is that the previous motion to proceed with the Fire College
be rescinded..
Mr. Plummer: Rescinded or reversed?
Mayor Ferre: Well, I think you have to rescind it first and then...
Mr. PlLILIMer: Bevu_•sv is truthful!)- what you got to do because this is not a zoning
itecu in my estimation and. I'm not the City Attorney. But you got to have a motion
to reconsider.
Mayor Ferre: Ok, 1... I think you are'right. I stand corrected. Joe you got to
make it to reconsider.
Mr. Carollo: Reconsider.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, and I will second the motion to reconsider.
f
Z980
J
r..
Mr. Lacasa: A motion and a second, please call the roll.
THEREUPON 7hE FOREGOING MOTTr\ was :nicrc.duced 'Dy Cc=,is6ioner Ca*cllo
and seconded by Mayor Ferre and defeated y the following Vote:
AYES: Mr. Carollo and Mayor Ferre.
NOES: Mr. Plummer, Rev. Gibson artd Vice -Mayor Lacatia.
ABSENT: Non,_:.
)b. .11-i':•... ll��_i:_]t'1T'.il 5ct.1i\�. .......'S. <�.,.i.l...,l.,::�.1�./i_,.. .._,._.•v
FOR D'ESI6N CO'`SiR'C:.v� �; .',: .- T r ::, S.i.;_ i��I\�.;^•
FACII-ITY AND CLOSED CIRCLI
. .. ......... �.y,.a.......seem.:w`ca�orw�.!!t:`,ue�Nei[arr:':..s��arw 1��9?i'7•S^.r."rs t .,�, `dN.l"�'�.%F :""'.t°`.,`aG' - E�'-19j' "'°'.Ra'*9Fh`.4k'." .
Mayor Ferre: We are now on Item 32 which is the last item on the City Agenda.
Mr. Plummer do you want to move that?
Mr. Plummer: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: fir. Plummer moves Item 32, Father Gibson seconds, further discussion
on Item 32, call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-318
A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE MOST QUALIFIED CONSULT-
ING FIRMS TO PROVIDE PROFESSIONAL ARCHITECTURAL/
ENGINEERING SERVTCi; S FOR ihE DESIGN ANT CONSTRUCTION
OF THE MI;V%I 1'11\E 1�S3C1 E TRAINING FACTLITY AN-D CLOSED
CIRCUIT T_'LEVISION SYSTEX; AUTHORIZING THE CITY
MANAGER TO CON T &ACT NIEGOTiATIt�NS WITti THE
MOST QUALIFIED FILIC-13 TO ARRTVE AT a WHICH
IS FAIR, CG_TPETITIVE :AND REASON,'4_BLE; AND ALi_OCAT-
ING 3155,000 FROM F-IRE FIGHTING, FIRr: PRr'.�a:NTI':N
AND RESCUE FACILI'I'Ir:S BOND FUNDS TO COVI-%R ThE COST
OF SAID CONT.-,ACT; AND DIRECTING THE CITY MAtiAGZR
TO PRESENT THE PROPOSED CONTRACT TO 'I—h CITY COM-
MISSION AFTER ITS NEGOTIATION FOR APPROVAL BY THE
COMMISSION PRIOR TO EXECUTION THEREOF.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk).
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Gibson, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commission'_>r (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor :Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
•
104 n ,
�� R �; 411 �
�9�1"9�Stit�':�T�R�IT'�'.,{��:.nt.: � :,ei ? �tC:.J,�,g` .. ° _ , . •. '��:... r"i>
37. MOT�_(i:ti Or i:.:i :,T. '.LA`i 190% i .:' . T:) KZIN AT 1:00 P.M.
r
Mr. FlUr.:mer. Mr. iLayor there is one :)ri(.f thin i would li ,:, to 'i:'iil, up. Mr.
Mayor, I C:on' L know about the rus L of the Co"`:missio"., b-,lt 1 f i r J:'.. i : 3 : i SL-11CiShly
have thanker: the Co^.missica for having i. o'�loct; ::ec.:i-,C;> Sad ..i you 'would
like to fur:.•:, I would like_-' to ask the Administration LG continuo it in the months
of May and Tuae...
Mayor Fcrrt: Let's do it one month at a time, because I'm not too sure I can live
with these.
Mr. Plummer: Alright, sir, fine. _
Mr. Grimm: Mr. Mayor, every action that the Commission has taken satisfies the
agenda.
Mr. Plummer: I would make a motion at this time M:. Mayor that the meetings for the
month of May start at 1 o'clock.
Mayor Ferre: Is there a sec<,nd?
Rev. Gibson: S: cord.
Mr. Lacas:.: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Seconded by Lacasa, further discussion, call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, "ho
moved its adoption.
MOTION NO. 80-319
A MOTION RESCHEDULI`;G THE REGLZAR MEETINGS FOR THE MONTH
OF MAY TO BEGIN AT 1:00 O'CLOCK P.M. RATHER THAN 9:00 A.M.
Upon being seconded by Co=d.ssione_r Lacasa, the motion was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
3d. i �', ALI.:SH Ti.-K FORC_: TO ASSIST IN A:;IVALS OF RE"ru E1✓S
FROG: CL.� � AND APPOIN] i';G
...l +n llirz�" .�.:.�'^s `�..,�'.e:.. yr. "�4S.�i*.P_. iilT•-?'v+
Mr. Carvilu: tii: . .. ,or, ")-fort, ,,i:i t,r.o our c,,lilar tin,
1 wa- informed a 1 ittle
While zi,o tl;at _,.i 1. iti i 0r i:r iJic' i:li::17t'. Jf JD.t_ 1'L ., xVC to Cl:t . a-.
are ex ecLcd to co;.� ba_n with c�� a:c"rah - c
P _�. nt:...,;c_ :;'.:...:: rc:u "�. _ and i� t
number i, as I ,., ve heard. I Lhink we sno;;ic :,ert _ 1JiV consider. aad I would
be willirii; to prL,e:':r _ ^.o,ion ro make z ta�,k force lointy with the County to be
pre?ared for this largt_ yrsount of people that will be coming; to our community. I
will be more than willing to make -the motion and volunteer to be a part of that
task force.
Mr. Lacasa: Second.
APR � 4 i9d0
Mayor Ferre: Alright, there is a motion and a second, is there further discussion
on the motion': Alright, then call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Carollo, who
moved its adoption.
MOTION NO. 80-320
A MOTION ESTABLISHING A TASK FORCE JOINTLY BET`, -BEN THE, CITY
OF MIAMI AND METROPOLITAN DADE COL�TY TG ASSIST IN RE 'HAN'DLING
OF NEWLY ARRIVED RLF_vEi:S PROM CUSA AND APPOIti:I:OG THE FOLLOW-
ING INDIVIDUALS AS 7CPRESENTATIVES 0'i THE CITY ADMINISTRATION
AND THE CITY OF CGH."i.:iSTON:
VICE-%AYGK ARC: V\D,)
COMl yiSSIONEk JO`_ CAi'L•�'.l
ASSISTANT CITY VINCENT CRI:VI
ASSISTANT CITY NIANAGhR Cc:SAR ODIO
DEPUTIi CITY ATTO:iNEY JOSE ALVAREZ
CHILF KENNEiH IiAR.�;S
CHIEF HER'- N BRICE
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Lacas,:, the motion was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: ::ommissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plumrier, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
vice -;Mayor Armando Lacasa
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
NOTE: END OF REGULAR MEETING.
39. APPEAT_ BY :1_kRlo S . TABiLkUE 1.;';-
OVE2:ZULE DECISION OF ZONING BOARD AND GRA.,T VARIt'LNCL.
y.
Mayor 'r•arre: Let's take up Item , � very c;uick,.v. Ladies anc'. g,er.tl,• ;`n, I will put
tif.een mil:I.i_1S, if this matter is :lot cun,:ludEc in filtet.11 t11on you Will have
to sit down an wait your turn. Alright, proceed.
Mr. A. P. tti<>ltur: Mayor and -,lumbers of the Commission, my nacre is A. P.
Walter, Jr. I'm t.;-_• attorney for Mario Tabraue who is asking this Commission to
der or t `reconscor a vari,inct_ to co"'picte a right angle
corner of a is Xiami. It's a very small matter. A matter of ten feet by
ten feet whic` the utility room. The problem is that tiie house when it
was it bt:=1L __.i:v _' !nt`;--five pills vears a'.,o is a free existing llae. It is within
five feet of the surJ.:cks. What they... tn,.,e people, the. Tabraues want to do is
to extent that ten feet to a clo..ed utility room.
Mayor Ferre: Airi,,ht, 'ct's ht_•;:r arum tile Administration. T'ne deaartment recommended
denial an,1 :he ^oning Bo ara voted ."our to two denial. he Planning Department,
Item 2.
11r. Whipple: Mr. l'`iayor; we find no tardship which would justify the permitting of the
request. The constriction started without tht_ permit. They were cited and the
Zoning Board felt that �t was nun proper and did not qualify for a hardship as
did the Department and we both recom:tv;a denial.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, are there any opponents?
if not questions from the Commission?
Are there any opponents present,
A?? ? � I380
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Mr. Lacasa: Mr. Whipple, the variance is 2.3 feet, that's all there is?
Mayor Ferre: 2.7.
Mr. Whipple: Yes, sir the side yard requirement is five feet. They are
requesting build an addition at 2.7 to conform with the existing structure.
Mr. Lacasa: So actually the difference is 2.3?
Mr. Whipple: Yes, sir.
Mr. Lacasa: two feet and three inches.
Mr. Whipple: Yes, sir. But the law requires that you do provide the setback and
we suggest t..at there is ample area to
Mr. Lacasa: I see no objection, I move that the application for a variance be
approved.
Mr. Plummer: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, there is a motion and a second, further discussion? Father
Gibson?
Rev. Gibson: Mr. Mayor, let me say to the Commission, I find myself in a quandry
If you have a fire... -,w lr,any of you have been to tha,- house and looked at it?
How many members cf the Commission who have actually seen what is being recommended
that you not do? Have you seen it Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Ferre: What's that Father'?
Rev. Gibson: Have you seen this piece of property?
Mayor Ferre: No, sir...
Rev. Gibson: Have you seen this Mr.Lacasa? Have you seen this Plummer?
Mr. Carollo: Let me state this Mr. Gibson...
Rev. Gibson: Wait a minute, man, you could do your do. Have you seen it?
Mr. Carollo: Can I make a statement if I can?
Rev. Gibson: No, no, let me finish my question.
Mr. Carollo: What I want to say to you if you will let me, just give me the
courtesy to example to you one second, if you don't mind.
Rev. Gibson: ,Aright, ok, go ahead. Go ahead, man.
Mr. Caro L'o: Is the following; That I for one do not like to make quick decisions
like we are :raking here, so I am reinforcing your position Mr. Gibson.
Rev. Gibson: Alrigr:t. You know, let me :,ay to the Col:u,:ission what bothers me
and I don't... yet: see, I don't have to go thro,./_�h all of this hassle, it bothers
me. You ..,re to have a five foot ;ethack. Ii: you have a fire... all you have
to do is hve a and watch and .,fe what will All you have to do is
let this "o on 5C:'.C•bo(y 7-c to ,L t `:ur Ncw, if we have a
five foot setback all I want you to do i;; tell ::It-- or not you are going to
continua to enforce yc;;;r law. If not, T, r,. n6t_ -int; tc ta'.{e -1_1 tir,,e to go out
here and .' boK at 1'.c P.on.ng to OIIC in her(,... ;11':;: 15L. b,_ Ca,,, ;, , you know, we
want to t.et emot oral aad all OI thiL. Wc, tE' :tii ,t rill i:. Of ell nk,S ;o on. iWC
things, eLCf.E?r yo ' ari 011:g tJ KeL:i) t},e i;i;J Or yk,,i ;ire not Ol iit�' to keei) Life 1,iw.
And what bOthers I7iE iS it -'IS "DeeLl 6,,Li I".eY,: C)C,rL., ..,::l;y i_imes that these people
do these... this cr rE:novatir;�; on L.Ze w���k«1„�. You nave heard that. NOW,
let's be honest about - and Mr. Carollo, l could appreciate if you have got to
go see it, but I want ;o ,:a;I you I built a houses, you head to know this, rive
years ago and they made :,-e s,_Lb«eK 1iv. `cet on this... on either side, twenty
feet to the front, twenty fc,_t to the rear. \ow either %,•e are going to keep these
laws or we are not going to keep ti-.c:11. NOW, if you aren't I want to know that
so when I come up here I don't have to get my pressure up and I don't have to be
in the middle on this thing.
Mr. Walter: Father Gibson, if I could help you understand. The house was built
correctly as preexisting use many years ago. It's an extension. It's an right
angle of... within that... the house is continued on a straight line for an extra
ten feet to enclose the utility room. It actually... it doesn't h,.rm the nei€.hborhood
it actually helps it. It you will find... you will look in the agenda tnore are
thirty-one favorable letters there and only seven against. It is not something
that's free standing or within the five foot area. It s... tizc 't:c,ur,? cxt��nds an
additional ten feet to enclose the utility roor;. It actually increase: the value
of the hOUS , the neighborhood. It is an asset. I understand. I'm in favor of
the law, V'r, an attorney and I r-_spuct that very, very much and respect your
feelings and in... the great majority in almost every case I would agree with you.
However, the,_ are exceptions and that's the law...
Rev. Gibson: What is the exception'.
Mr. Walter: ... such as we have here.
Rev. Gibson: What is it?
Mr. Walter: That we...
Rev. Gibson: You don't have five feet on either side.
Mr. Walter: The hous,_ was built as a correct...
Rev. Gibson: Sir, but you had to have a building permit to do what you did. Why
didn't you get the building permit?
Mr. Walter: What purnishment we could give... we want that... we the...
Rev. Gibson: Look, why didn't you get the building permit? Why didn't...
Mr. Walter: At the time I don't know. Maybe it was a small item and we didn't
think to be there. We apologize.
Rev. Cibson: Well, if we don't stop it, we will always have it.
Mr. Carollo: If I may ask the attorney for the party here a couple of questions.
Number one, the neighbors right directly next to where this utility room is being
built have they objected to it?
Mr. Walter: I don't know. It's actually an enclosure of that facility. If they...
If I were a neighbor I would feel... and I would not be objecting to it. It would
actually enclose it and make it more attractive.
Mr. Carollo: Dacs the City know if the neighbor next door has complained?
Mr. Perez: We have a return on file that the neighbors to either side have sent
a return of approval of the granting of these variances.
Mr. Carollo: In oti:er words, the neighbors most affected by it have sent their
approval of it.
Mr. Perez: That is correct.
Mr. Carollo: Ok, that's one of my main concerns because these would be the people
most directly aftect�:l by it. My next question is this. When the structure was
built what is the year of the house?
Mr. Walter: I would guess the house, the neighborhood was built over twenty-five
years ago and they „re stucco home and very attractive homes.
Mr Carollo: The side of the house...
Mr. Walter: I have a photograph would that help you? Several photographs.
Mr. Carollo: Well, I would need to see it. I have a drawing here of it that I'm
looking at. The side of the house where the utility room is being built from the
front to the very end where the utility room starts, is it all, that whole side
2.7 feet away exactly? ,
APR
Mr. Walter: Yes, it is an extension. It has a right angle. They are just
squaring off the ,iouse .
Mr. Carollo: Let me say this. I would like to have a better explanation why a
permit was not achieved and taken out. I understand hevever, that even though
there is no e%cu.t for it sometimes a lot cr our citizens that are not as aware
of what the law states that they should do. rcr what I see here ii the complete
structure of the ; Muse is 2.7 feet awry, the Fume teat r_,e Lcil;ty rocrr.
is going to be a'+:a,i if eir-her neii'hbor on ei::ner sidC' t:le people P'c::t uirectl y
affected by it have not complained.
Mr. Walter: They have written letters in favor of it.
Mr. Carollo: That's right, they feel that they are not being hindered by this.
I feel that this Comnission should move in favor of this and I present a motion
to move in favor of ic.
Mr. Walter: Thank you, Mr. Commissioner.
Mayor Ferre: Alright, we have a motion in favor of...
Mr. Carollo: Mr. Lacasa made a motion and it was seconded by Plummer.
Mr. Perez: There was a motion Lacasa and a second by Plummer.
Mayor Ferre: Is there further discussion? This is an appeal by the applicant, so
therefore we must reverse the denial of the Zoning Board. Is that technically?
Mr. Plummer: No, just a simple motion to overrule something.
Mayor Ferre: A motion to overrule the 'Zoning Board on Item 2, further discussion,
call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Lacasa, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-321
A RESOLUTION GRA?'TING A VARIANCE FROM ORDINANCE
NO. 6871, ARTICLE V, SECTION 3 (2) (a), TO PERMIT
A UTILITY ROGM ' tiDER CONSTRi;C I0N ON
LOT 10, BLI;�K 4, PAiUKDAi... (14-36), B1,ING 2971
S.W. 19'iH TERRAC :, AS PE:, OF SL:,,vc:Y ON
FILE, WITH 2,.71 W" S T SIDE YARD (5'
ZONED R-1 (ONE FAMIlLY).
04ere follows boc;y of r(3olution, ocittod here and on
films in the Office Of tt:e City Clerk).
Upon being second_:d by Cc;nmissioner Plu;nmer, the resolution was
passed and adopted by followin ; vote.
AYES: Mr. Plua,mer, Mr. Caro::o and Vice -Mayor Lacasa.
NOES: Rev. G-LJso!. and Mayor Ferre.
ABSENT: None.
If
109
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ON THE ROLL CALL:
*Father Gibson: I vote no. I think if you have these 'Zoning Boards
and these rules, and if you aren't going to adhere to them, don't have
them. Along with the fact that if people could build over the weekend
and you don't know, and then want to after the tact, get a building
permit, you're making the law a mockery.
Mr. Plumme,-: I understand I am to be corrected. There is a resolution
which is to be icad. A resolution granting a variance from L)rdinance
No. 6871, r.rticle 3, Section III, (2), (a) to permit a utility _
room adc;iti.n under construction on lot ten, block 4, Parkdale (14-36)
being 2971 -.W. i9th Terrace as per sketch of survey on file witn
two point s�.ven West side yard, five foot required, zoned R-1. _
Mr. Lacasa: I would like to stop the roll call for a moment.
Mayor Ferre: All right, go ahead.
Mr. Plummer: You can't do that.
Mayor Ferre: Yeah.
Mr. Plummer: How can you stop a roll call?
Mayor Ferro: Because the chair is going to rule that he can make a
statement before he votes.
Mr. Lacasa: J. L., this is going to clarify this question.
Mayor Ferre: The chair rules you can make a statement. Are you voting
now? Is this your turn to vote?
Mr. Lacasa: I already voted.
Mayor Ferre: Explain your vote quickly.
Mr. Lacasa: This utility room here has the same setback that the
existing construction has, right? It follows the same line. Am I
correct? What I see here, this is what you people presented.
So actually, you see here this following the same setback. There is
no change. rout four -fifths of this old :louse his a setback of
two point seven. And all they are doing because of the irregular shape
of the hcuse at the end is to follow the same line.
Father Gibson. !.'.r. Lacasa, let me defend because I'm the only culprit.
I understand 4i:,_+. better than you because 1 '.snow a little about building.
I went o., e scene and I saw the house. I don't vote up here on
zoning un-ess I g, S'.e. let me tell you what, what you all are not
understanding :s t 'i lc come to you as}:ir.g FerT i ssiu: to do after they
have dGn . iha-'s ;:".a: -'m trying to get across. Axd if _,<-u szart
turning cow:: th ,,,e _ e.:_ le, , cu 'Know. what will happen? They'll come here
first. Now I :,ay '.:e i:: :3ympat: with the man but I'..l be dodged if I
think Aiou ou,ri_t : do it and then come to me and say, hev man, let me
do it. You've alr,�acy done it. What you are doing is you are putting
the gun to my l; au. T::at's what I'm saying.
Mayor Ferre: All right, continue the roll call.
*Mr. Carollo: Yes, I feel that this Commission is here not only to be
just but to be humane.
110 APR 2 4 980
ist
f 1kr,
15 .EVEN' " (Venego Sub) (Western Fringe of
.,ayor IeT'� All ..ignt, take, up item nuF,C,erlt� Orin, ;.
Chair r•._.•o.•.ize� the administration, it" yuu will.
sir. Perez: We will have a presentation: by the Director of the Planning
,Depar trren t .
Mayor Ferre: Mir. Reid, who besides you will talk for the administration?
Mr. Jim Reid: Dena Spillman and that's it.
Mayor Ferre: How long is your statement, 6ir?
Mr. Reid: It will take, alinutes.
Mayor Ferre: How long is Ms. Spillman's statement?
Mayor Ferre: Two minutes. Counselor, how long will you speak tonight?
Ten minutes. Ail right, are there sr:y other speakers for the
proponents aide.? Thoss3 t:~:at are for? Three proponents. How many
minutes do you need? Okay. So in o;_ner words, we nave two minutes and
two min l_,tes, u: j'.ht Mlnute_,, ':nrre, threat., thr(_e. :.0 W the cpponents.
Raise your �":an -i t:.us,3 teat want edr:? Oka,'. :low many minutes
do you neeu? ;.ii right, raise your hands so 1 gee. 114h0 is
against. Who -re the p, o ple to ine-k that .":1 t heard
tonight: Six? Ar.yboay ease? Thirteen peocie ti:.e three minutes
is thirty-six minutes. Okay, we'11 bt, un hUiir and :,rlQ halfon this
item. All rig_;t now, : e rules �)the L..e ere, you've cot two minutes,
two minutes, yG'u rlakc your r+..mar, s anc: tale proponents each have t.:ree,
the o-rno:,E.'._._ , acn. have tare,_. _.,. ma's a total of thirty -Six minutes
for thtc oppcnent.s. I'-. 47,1V,2 "OU ter. to SlUn up if You
want to, so haVi: :i tcl al of forty-six minutes. Okay? Now
that's long E:nougn. Please co:amc! :cep.
Mr. Rr ice: The >suc before: t::e Cor_;:scion cf the subject tract
from t.-.: tc-' ti- i, and %�rop o�'ed ;illy';' ana strEet closures on the tract.
It was the rcccr.mendation cf the: De-,artmen , that L:.e,:= tWO issues
be gra.,ted. I would lip to particul_irly address tc• t' e City's
Comprehen;;ive i:::st: of ;.onsistc:.cy of what's L rc-.o i d witn plans for
the area. -ter ,.. the subject i cc)risist_n`_ with tine
COmj%rt:::(!nSiV0. P1..1n, W!.Qfee we Set the erne o: jectivL that we had was
more m C r.:r iP. lC housiG, in tt:e area .i: Li. _ C:'Vic Ci_I".tbr. tt 1S
also with the L:_ :n that w, ho .e tr� 'L rinT to yo-i in June, which
we hav+_ ri.:' 1 w':,lri:Il' wi t"i the: institutions ii": z-he C:.vic tine::ter. And it
would be r.- the Comm,inity Develo_rmcnt Task ?vr_t , Wu're dealing
with LWo one, the nee.= For :tore hou.;I.-iq in the Civic Canter
area rviii.:[, is, v,,-_1 I:nVc to undc!rst.<.;iG, outside of clew;".-,cwn, the major
employment l-e;.t _'r of rh: City. Twunt'. `iVc- +.fioL:S !. neopi . now work
in the' L. "1C Cer.,..'r .:ri:a. _:? i.'1C )_an, rc:CCi'wT,t•'.QaCi.'.. that will )c?
coming ..r) you w.'.: cl_al Frith housil.; so ,..li ;�:•:,, r;,_ ;pl:. ,:To live 1n
that art2a wlll ilaV(? th,t oj.ip,Cir• -;Inity t:o, WC k lI", t.',oL ar•_:u will
have the: oF,lxort:in. ty to live there, and dea-i ing wi l :,ei(:h,)(:)nccoa
commu.rclal, and of, 1.-e ,ipace develol,meat, riq,-It now, we don't
feel as a City, w._ getting tr._ 1,,enefit from th._ tre'r.:rn.iuu" employment
force that is there. The Civic Center Stuc;y ti",at w,! are brining to
the Planning Advisory i.o .rd ana the Comm_, E,:;iOn .in ,punt,, have. been
prepared with Hagner, 5iler•s Gecr,;e, nationally consultants. And
they say, among other tAings, trat tnere is a market for tnu type of
housing being proposed here, number one:, that they notU in the
study, of the twenty-five thousand people employc:ed there, this data was
/ "o—
Nit. Reid (continued): was gathered in 1979, sixty-eight ljerc•ent. i them
O,`'alwst seven out of every ten have incomes of under fifteen thousand
dollars, so that's an important point to remember. The type of housing
that we're talking about is really aimed at the T•ijori'Ly of the people
that are working in that area. We're not simply tall<ir.,, this is not
public hou:;ing that's being proposed. It is par,licly assited ~:'.:sing
that i5 .cr workincj people, basically, and the eid,_rly. The tyl2 o:
people t,-,.it Could !1ve In thi3 hou_,,nc, lrC-, the City, clerks,
clerk typists, secretarys,, day care aide, engineer teci;inclans, ar,d t:ne
like. Thel are employees of the hospital, ,ractical nurses, lab workers,
clerical i._o lie, dietary workers, pares-nro:=es:,i(:dnals, they are _nployces of
the near-1y -ubi.ic facilities such as bars; tellers, story_ clerks, waiters,
and so fort:,: the mobile elderly s,ihL) :: d t,:e accuss t. the mud -%.Il
facilities tt the Civic Center area. �o 1 thing that's an 1[i,1X;r t3.-a
point. I t:.ink tt.iS ...3 well aware of that in thlj city there is a reat Uf L'iat is :;einq price(: out of
the housin,i mar<,' toCA y- It is 'JLry imi)orLant that we bu11C to
bring is to :C marr:Ct. :Ge sLatlon also,
remarks, is very clos_ to u i rOtiosec. t_ansit Station .;J t::e population
Of this r'ic_ is:.na will have access where the tru%Fi`.. _S built, to the use
of the stati _T, '' Ike to turn Li'✓er to Dtna Spillman, the Director
of community' J.'✓�1G1)mttht fcr her �oxzents.
:his. Dena Spillman. .:-.yor and Cc--missioners, as you ;snow, ever,, year as
part of u'Jr '•::u:. :i1L': Development application we .3uhmit a houL;l::g
assistant,__ :)13.'. ' i ic:: our .:eecds ].n t:iL L 1 = ! for hcus.Lng for low
and modtrate ir.:.Dmt: people. As you nay bu awar',, this ;,ro ect is a Section
V11I, Fou,-r311y 1s5. ti _:roDect wide.h will be av:.ilable to people in the
City. Our Housi:lg Assisr.ance Plan o•.,tlines cc,hsus tracts which we feel
are impactet. or whi_:.rt have too units in them. This
pro",ect is ncir_ '^_car—eU in on: _ of those' cent —is t2"a :'_S that :,a- bLt:Ii identified
as an im,nct,'u fa. Urt.:E'r, Llie it, C, .'il iiL I:S:L:..,ib V ...'..per
Federal iaw to i.rovic,� L, review of acts _, .nature. ^':iis den-artment
has reviewe.. rc ar.: re__ort c to of the
Departr,,r :r_ u'_ r1G'-lsi.. j ri an ✓t Vc.l;> ^,t'..0 r -ha- i.. : S C;,oil r._.. _ With
our :i.UUSJLn.9 ASsi.StiiIil:t Plan ai-,d :gat '.tie have no !m with
Of Chis i)rc. j�ct. TomoLrOw we'rE ?O:.',q to ::live a [Yi;u 1;':y itiGl'r 3:: '.ce're
going o talk aLotit the nee:is of t 1J:; com[r.unity. he'ra goinc tc• tr`11 you
tomorrow that Lhere dYC' fifty-one tliousanti ramllli_s In neeii of '-,o_Sinq
of this sort in the City of MI -Large. The pro-'ect that we're talking .about
now is for one niI:C:Yed ana niIiety-five of tt[ose 'unite. It 'h:11 'C even
m,3.:e a dent" ill t.1J -.)ro6it2m that We're facin^I. 1 Want to furth,2r rt mind
you r-at w, , t[lt_ City, .ire Obligated undE'r i't d,?r11 law CG ruVi,.: n%;ising
for low a`.d m:.idl.ratC' 1nCOI7.,_ *._, ol1e. You, the obligated
to tar:u fl-•n: to suUport-)rc,,jra i_Q of t:".is nature. Yo'i 1:.hvu donne that
many times "ril'.:i'1 `_he Housing Donal l ; ;'.1_ a.nd W1 tI oLc.or icwever,
Zoning action_,. ,...:;0 are to b' constru_c as Oui :"'OYt1Vc o2 kir•.d of
nousing. .%[hen 3 project was ap-ruved by th,-, ,;3CK ;i V"lily .__D area -
office, they aav<.r �_l ed for t':.re,e hundred and is ht a i- of ,. ,using. Out
Of that action, ta.L., -s the only I)roje(-t that the City clot. T11%at's it.
SO We ahead',, ir.st �)ne ..unfired units, if We lose t nl.; C'.. , we 1. t all
three :ar,C:r C .ln,: elgl:`_ units. T:.e City is urilt'Y rt:S.'OI:tS1b11itV also
to provide fail': iy 'Gu�1ing. As you Know, we ':i'✓r• „ V1..vG ci 10t of
elderly :1'_'J.:1RCj, '+E: are co:tt.inuing to prDvije e21Ci'riy and f-inily. This
is one hundred ana :,.-t,�ty-five unity 3f r,g . ,ch we are
in dire. need :'a. _r,er, 1 war- brincj up sort _..._.., _ .,it wt re going
to dl:icuss _omo:'r-'w i L,,: T think it's Yt�if?v n`_. ;1e trt faci.nq more and
more GC•positlon in Oi:_ nt l j:lDOL..JC,dS tCi .."1r"1C1:'e . .a _'iI. We , r e going
to be back to ya" k'iL ;)r:oject`3, ;JOu':-e going tC St,. OplE d::G co not
Want It, ,and 1 .-.. IliS tn-Ls i:a an exumi' ,i, of t:"nil: ,iI'..,1`: 1, il::i, 'eu the City,
have got t0 ',heat our i)C)_;ition is an6 what Cur stand is. Again,
I want to remind you we are obligated to t)rovi3i_ ,ions ng or this nature.
Further, we have c:lam us:, d many time—, cr. :ou; ink, ri:mot w wuat to encourage
private development of subsidized ilia ing. We'vt di.,,..0 sed that at least
five times. This is or.0 of the few txa[*.ple_s of a private developer who
wants to provide subsidized hous ing in -the City of :•iiL: i. And I think it
is encumbent upon us to encourage this kind of development. Thank you.
ist 112 A!" R 22.4 iriVUI
Mayor Ferre: Dena, I take it you're for this.
Mr. Robert H. Traurig: For the record, my name is Robert H. Trauriq.
I'm an attorney with offices at 1401 Brickell Avenue. And I might not
need my ten minutes after listening to Jim and to Dt na. But what they've
said is so relevant and so important for your con,;ider,,,tion with regard
to this particular pro- ct. But b.� W'.y Of 2ntre>uu,_tio-., i�:t i,t say t}:.it
thc,, prO Ju.-- t is t;:3'i parcel Of 1proper filar lies
Street and ' 3th Street and ;J,,�tween tiort we;t loth i ,d 13tI. Avcnu`, an:'_ as
they have :' 5Ct'iGeQ it, it's rC31.-/ or. the, western Lil..,jl c C:,,,Jic
Center 3L'C And by way Of idEi'a ifiCcit.l0 :, it 'AOu1C -ircEl
of propE _; , and you can see- that tnis largo u:;daveiopcd _ ar _i of
property li,-::; practically i:T-me(iiately to t e west of t::e CULAe1rS of Iebonon
parking co:nr ex avid the VA Hespital 3r.,1 tr. Jac.._:G ; ..,_.lGri i ii s,'ital
and all the... thls is tnt8 VA, and ill t.lG CC:., iCXE; w'.1.. :, cl:Vt :c i lbiic
in this general area, ;mown as th' C: V is Center. I think that al scat all
the remarks which are Pt.rt_n-:!r,t huvc bet:n :!laic.. gut. I would il'ke ; ) add a few
more and avoid redundancy in doinq _:.tll. LlY`t of ail, li:: llr.c_ ';'ou
to -now t,:a',-_ I S1,}'mit to ;,Oil, :hrouC.: _.'.r' C'Lt1 of
approximately One thousand Allclpatt<ih resider tt:: .;,,o urge6 that; acCion
on your :-jarL . �7,co:,d.Ly, 1 wou l c 1 :.:e ;:Oil tJ ,-7.ow that In tract, tnere is
a Very great need in t,-.ispar _ - l area for housing to serve the
hc3pltal In :,s ::c-ce:ltly as this afternoon
w1Li. ;Jir. 710 ":y -_ cVi6, at uacKS r. MtL!T.Grid1, :a' sa.'s t.I'.at Out. of approximately
five the isa,,_. ._. ,,l0yOOS, (;ver once t:.ousana of t1:em Bairn unk�er Len r',cusand
dollar.s -:l•: :J,"r. '.GW *:".E'_ qualification LO live :_n t::1S i,ar;:ic'.:lar project
ri? u-CS to 3:'.0 1s .car 1JW di.,: ,::OGt'r.9tC I..ii6liiLS. An:Q we
would ;ubm c: to . _-u thaL there is a very great neud to :rovi::e housing
in closE 1 t.V t,, _,.(_: and the hosi-11L,: iUT.i)ieXeS
are those fi')1o,'T,ent cent i'::. -.t t'r:e Loning boar,; hearing and subsequently,
we were tJ1,a t:.dt �nc:r' A,-.-aWC111:, 11}! you t0 consider
the sC twG thutt alit: prescntll avlllabi•=. At the
Ceders O: ..i:Goncn *, _t X, arc' Gr.t ilaindora c,r.d eight2-nine
units. Thc.i a_ c E flClr_::C1i S r Ono z,.droom, tw,f j : C .rOG T , and three L.c.droom,
and the.�:e are .',:;a i.av(. ;.eard u -ot of adv_rse ccrr::r,e.nt_
ah,out ;fare ::Guc,C and aDGll'_ h0:,, Ce : ire house dot 3:1' t scrvv t"e - Gpa latlon
adecua:tel.y, and ....at the.-c are Gu_
two `:undr...i and .._nety-five ll n-ts, is Of LOGay, tn'_i:o we.rc no Vacancies.
How did wi, jet i:.tc, this? :iC'w 1a ,;,_ _�li �t t::1S _.tc ! It was i0ecause
the iltl r:,C:_:lr _ it. _ 'wo,.Id li::e tc ;:k:ula to you l C-cpy of
a lettc— "'Gur C--,v 3f.1'1:=r 17 ✓✓ ._... _'> 'C•.• �vr .... �r3S51e,
in May, 1979, in Which ;:e s,:iid, lti.Gli ;r: :t: i`__ L.ri_ :l:Lly zoned
R-3, and a zoning c angr to R-_. is no __. .r'[ G u: A' ✓GLr .,YptiOSe
develicjrr(f:._, o-_:r Pianni..g rt'eLt- ot�._ x:: _.. a t:. t!'.L sl::c: and has
no ozjuc'__.,.. the R-'-' Q_ g',a= _:.. 5t ., 3 _1:..._ t.'1•3 i}rcposal in
accord nce wit:. Civic Center Flan. wi;ich (i_:vc'_onlne nt cf
1bSl.diLE d f 0u: iL ? units in Lhe •.irt tv meet Lh b',di. vi i.OW �..cOme
families oru3er.'_ lam/ c,:i-�)ioveed at t-o _Vi : Cen,:ier. . :r;. _n wc. made he
application to -)i.v�lle HUD, wci:; bt.causu we ::a3 L En encouraged by
the Cizy t0 try t0 Kind Of a facility wi-ti,ln that ij Gi'r'd1
area whic`. we iic C t ✓ -:13t d jG2 C^,_i 0', ^Gil'_ .'�ntt . f�7t LLl�`Tl ::E amity
:tanager weni,. tG Loy we art_ aware GT �P.0 clI ilcult,&is you aav,__ c n'cOuntered
lI: flndi; r? a u.,-.i le site for lGw .Itri lt.' fam i'J cuveloj:ment, ana concur that
if we are to ::rot'<<:;: ho'asing ;or our low income `drlili _:s, ,.i,ai:ar d ,nsity
developmo:,ts must i,u u::c:.orta.-<en. Now the c;1 .t?r
density deve1OPXeni. Cor,Sl tent with the r.t_a.-ihb'lir::ood pattern?
And the un3wt:r is y:: GL'caus, _: 1S 1S a si*co which we cc) rc_ onu from
R-3 to R-`, and i.: Vou will 1G._:K i t your zoni.' T1d; ti:Ure i5
immediately to the .F .sc of ,.his pro :Qrt,i on th,` other of t;._ canal .
There were other ',t from City officials L,) jacK.,.J(.Vl:.:t. l',d to
HUD In Washing*on, r.:7o:ra,xinrj thu4 r favor'db'lE COn i :i r itiiir, GI t;.13
project. And then y-,u vrCbarkc,ri upon your Civic as
Air. Reid has s,iid, th._ rG_tC t I'c:lls wiuf.ir, th <<,r .',t' :5 .,,. t::e_
recommendations of that st.ady, and we urge it fcr your ccr,SidEration. 3ecause
it's so late, and becaust: t. ,S' cpilo,:iti'Dn w.ints an aui' itt a:.ou::t o:: time
to make its pre,;entaticn to you, any we have a few rlir:a'_s to rEbutt, I'll
just finish by saying that the: most recant _study in t;,e are, was the
study done for the .lass Transit Stations. And in the grass 'transit Study,
113 APR 24
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Mr. Traurig(continued): which is Station Area Profile Twelvc, Civic
Center, they conclude by saying, among the goals and objectives, plans,
and policies, is the development of addition,il modest.. cost housing
within the Civic Center and to the impiedi. ite --.ast and west. We would
also call to your attention, that notwithstanding the fact that some
of our neighbors are going to say there is a low nro=ile development
in the area, you'll notice that those parcels ciose_;t to our prcr erty
are apartment projects. They may he two story, the bt� thr,:t-� story,
but they are basically apartment pro-,,ects. '+hat ;qe :ir- _,a_'ing 1b
we have to be enlightened, as Vx . Reid and :�Is. Spillman have indicated
to you, and we must provide housing for this kind of po.ulation. Just
to show you that generally the site plan, this is a very site
plan showin where the building structures will be, very anpie landscaping,
there is going to be a hicihrlse structure for util-Zing a very small
percentage f the lot. We urge you favorable con-�ideration. we would have
made it a much ior.3er address but we think that it's untimE>ly to do so.
Thank you very '�uci;. (APPLAUSE) I have rendering I'd like to
advise that the architects on the. ,project were Pancoast Albisa.
And I have a rendering with me in the back. Just a seconc.
Mayor Ferre: I want to hear from the proponent first.
Mr. Traurig: I'm sure there are many other people who are here to speak
on behalf of the pro jc-.:,..
Mayor Ferrc: All right, we have four proponents that want to speak for
three minutes each. Go ahead. Three minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEEAKER: I'm going to speak five minutes.
Mayor Ferre: No, sir, you're going to speak three minutes.
Mr. Armando Prieto: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Lacasa, Mr. Plummer, Mr. Gibson,
CarUllo, my name is Armando Prieto, 1851 "I.W. 22nc Place in Allapattah.
I'm a property owner and a resident of this ccl„munity. I was going to
go into deep d•2tails about this but it has been said a lot and I don't
want to repeat what others said before. But, there is one thing that
:.hey didn't do and I'm going to do that. I went house to house and I
knocked on every door around this particular site...
Mayor Ferre: You sound like a politician.
Mr. Prieto: Okay? I am in a way but I don't get paid so what good is it?
Mayor Ferre: Neither do we, don't worry.
Mr. Prieto: All right. What I'm trying to say is I know, Father Gibson,
the need for t::_s particular project in our neighborhood. Nobody said
anything about how much this building is going to cost. It is going to
cost eight mil'_lc. dollars, ,nd six of this million dollars is going to
be in our communi`y eain-•d by our workers and the L e: i;l _ who live in
the communit•✓. Ana v:t. 'Ire ::n Llesperate need t.,:=se i+i-.3a right
now we are .;oir. ? through tou• :. times, and vcu know t•r.at. Okay? Also,
I found that r--qh_ Cher next �o the site is hundi �.,is yend hundr,_;1s of
residents, .rli'_ SelilOr citizens that can I:3Y6-`: a di'�uilt meal
because the re;.t �'-:u -,avc. to _ ay is so hi,;c is n.o i.. j __.'_t for
them to put on tnE. t::bl for the an,l that 'r,_c:_r::, :':}' heart. See,
this is why we ar,: in :.ucn i ..,ca for this particular Drvj�cc. sue? I
go door ..(dcor like F.�'her ;ir). cnn doi:';;. I've _ T ,. G1... , ur . orl
and an invalid, a wL:e. -ittin(, t^. re paying t•.,�o ::.i:ic:r-cr +:::: ores one
dollars r._r,t ri�jrt t'.er. , ar.c. they c_ir't aver: 1 -c:.-,l :.i r"!.-cr:t r--eal at
night. Now, al so , k.nccw ti;at rr,:ny *-.eoplc -;ay, well � .it :.rc we �3oing to
Rio about it? Whu'- a; e w1 cgoinq to do about it? This pro�ecr, this
particular project .wy, 1 help them because if t:ley rl,,:,._ one 1-.un.ciru-d
dollars a month, tn,- ':1t;,i�i1*y. If t:.EV make t,ao hll:.::,,_•; doliars a month, •
they qualify for this particular ,,rD-Jcc... and many, 1 Say :,, ;,y, r:lany of
these residents is a given thin<1 fi:Gm ti4e Sky, frorl Goo oecause they hope
to see the sun shine again. They want to have a few bucks in their pocket
so they can feed their family. And I'm not kidding, this is not a lie.
114
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Mr. Preito (continued): See, thank cod I don't need such a...
Mayor Ferre: Okay, your five minutes are up.
Mr. Prieto: Okay. `what I'm trying to say is this, please give us a
chance and we'll show you that in t::e future, those people who are
opposed to this will come to this Commission...
Mayor Ferrc: A11 right, thank you.
Mr. Prieto: And will really say thank you, Mayor, thank you. (APPLAUSE)
Mayor Ferre. Aii rig'r.t, :dr. Urra. In the interest of ;moving this along,
it will take. thirty seconds or minute for people to move up, so as soon
as one speaker finishes, I'd like for the next one to move up quickly.
All right, Mr. L'rra, you have three minutes.
(AT THIS POINT, MR. URRA REQUESTED A TRANSLATOR)
Mayor Ferre: Who is going to translate. All ricat, sir.
Mr. Urra (THRCUGH AN INTERPRETOR;, : Mr. Mayor and Commissioners, the
community of A1'Iapattah w' (-- tay learned about the project that was
going to be construe.^.,-,1 ill the communit. , they went out to contact the
elected boa_ A- ),: zhcir community to set_ in w:-jat gay this pro.�ect would
benefit l::l community. We got in tot c'., with j1�D. with the Planner assigned
to the :,re -a from tr?,• _ ianning Dcpar't� �cnt Of t1rle City of Miami. Everything
1ndlc:-tcL�C that L n1S _ ro]t-�ct 1S Df jreat. (.:refit t0 the cOaununity.
Later, we had a cc7rxn nity Ctevt 1Vj i:t me.('tir:g •W-Lrro this project, was
apprrved unanim)u: iIy. We nany timers .`:a'vu -E:;.t vl;ry had because we have
wcrk(:d for a co:r.,,,:,nity a:,'J icily years and ...any -00%fc work 'n c,p;%osltlon
to what tho co ,rarity reed. are. As we ruco,ni-v that this is a good
protect for our community, wo r�<qutz;t `r,,ir the VLiyor And this Commission,
that the ncct,,scary zoning c-nance be granted to carry out this very
needed project for this community. Thank you very r„uch. (APPLAUSE)
Mayor Ferre: I5 there another speaker? All right.
Miss Betty Singleterry: Mayor, Commissioners, I am a resident that lives
in this vicinity and my name is Betty Singleterry and I live at 1610
N.W. ' Dth Str�-cr. Arid we reap, urea this beca,iso in this vicinity the
wages arc,, go; r: ,', I mean not the wfagc.;, t.:c' rc:n tal nousln : are getting so
high that we cannot afford to pl-ty the r,::nt _ver there. might now, we
are nd-'in'j iikcc. two twenty-five a Tb nt:1, `.Nh',ch 1 Jr:l`! make like one twenty-
five. , ccinno,- afford to ray this kind runt s:.d o;;ly make this
small moor.:2. 1 have two kids and I have no father tc help me with them.
And would ;•ou ,i,-:ase give us this; oF: x rtunity to :,wild this for us, we
need it. Thar,;; you very muc:.. (APPLAUSE) .
Mayor :'erne: All right, next speaker. Are there any other speakers?
All right.
Mrs. Lydia W'iay, You've heard a Cuban accent now comes a Puerto Rican
accent. Commi„ior.ers, neighbors and friends, my name is Lydia O'day
and I have a ,701d t, O. My name is Lydia O'day and I control the ownership
Of four duPlex. - ai % ar.cess to three struts, N.W. loth Street, 15th Street,
and 13th Court. MybwhG10 family p«y:, about six thoursand dollars a year
in taxes. I n:-,re c(:: a resin( nt and pro'!,.-t.y c:wr.er .of this City since
1945 wrlen i came from _u0rL0 nice, and I have; i0vc_c1 .',jS City evt.r since.
I wor.keu tirst .,`. a 1.:,ijC' Couf,ty ln'c_rr lei ,.'.�i ��:1,, , ,well rl was 3
yearly funded 1,r0<j: d^ .a': attc;ll;Y at LL_idr iJl' trio ;.t.L i, : nd' we
come a long wa, ,lni e ,nerj. I was d1c 1"InSt tr-u rt_Zoi a,,,g of the area
discussed, and the hi.•hri-u c-wilding ropost,d f„r it. But In attending
the last meeting, I c}.L n-;cd M1 „1.t,d and ;at.,r udvi_ that had --it,ned
on my behalf, of my Of- 'opinion and aj,pr-.,v.31 oft. : realized
that your position stems from *nt, we1J rooted id(., t'.-.at of er projects
of HUD for low or moderate income. famiilt_ -, 1zavc2 dEt,reci.ated t.ne area
because of lack of upkeep and the ulapicatc!a cars ta4t these poor tenants
115
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Mrs. O'day (continued): have to have. I have personally talked to
Mr. Jorge Perez who is in charge of this project and he has assured me
that this will not be the case with this project. I have faith in his
word and I hope that this will be true. I have visited the Civic Center
in Los Angles and Boston, and I want to comp,_,te with thos(: in looks and
activity. As a natter of fact, if there is any doubt ci how that project
will run CVc r;t 23i1y, a ccnunittee ula be to help this coal,
and I would ')e very haply to participatu in keeping in r_nu pro uct ir.
good shape. The Civic Center of our City which is the cross-rcacs of the
Americas cannot stay the way it is. Lets do well for it. Forget_ i,ersonal
reasons and w,,rk for its progress. Thank you. (APPLAUSE).
;Mayor Ferre: ,Jr. Rodriguez.
Mr. Rodriguuz (THROUGH AN INTERPRETER): ilonoiable Xayor, and Ccsmissioners,
in my position as President of the Community Action of Allapattah, I have
been present at a'_1 meetin.,-s regarding this project, which comes I,; fill
a great neud re(:ardi nq housi:. .zn tn,_- com.^nunity cf A11,:-). i'�ove all,
for those ecple of low income who are going to a ,ac,_!nt living, and
easy access to thuix work. in the v" i1:,us m2� ti'rjs we 'nave had, -go have
discussed that the cjreQn areas ar... not going to be damaged. On ti,.e contrary,
this is going to Lrovidu mor' -en arv_a�,, more comfort, than what some
of the neighbors in t::i:; co:rmunity airea.- y nave. In the several .7cars
as a leader ir. cc=unity of A11a,attah, it is our duty and obligation
to look for a better way of life :or all our neig:ibor_;, and to create the
best sL:iv.Ces within this commwiity. ;,n: l we ll ,dQrSt,3:'.d L1115 `YO'it t
comes to 6olvu one of the great. nei:G_ -,-at we :nave lr, the com.milnity of
Allapattah, which is the need for iivircj ouarturs. As we all know, this
is an area which is developing small industries and in this industries,
the workers in these industries do not have enough mobility and this is the
way to help solve that problem. (APPLAUSE)
Mayor Ferre: All right, are there any other prc)ponents at this time? If
not, we'll start with the opponents. Okay? .4e'll start on this side.
Name and address for the record. You have three minutes.
Mr. Carl Spatz: gentlemen, my name is Carl Spatz. I am a co-owner of
property in the area. My address is 1401 Brickell Avenue. we're here
to strenuously object to this change of zoning and this vacation of
alleys. There are two matters before you today. Now, neither mys,ilf
nor any of the objectors are against low cost housing. the all a_imit that
low cost housing is needed. But what we are against is this particular
abomination, this particular dinosaur from t Al Last. we will _,:;ow that
they dotn'�_ build projects like this anymore anywhere in this .-hoia country.
And that ,Mia:-i will be one of the first to aaoi�t it if •,rou adol;� th:;
tonight. I'd . to divide my remarks in two parts. Fir_:t, I'd like
to introdu:..z Pro:._.: or Ralph Warburton, who some of the p `ohi c who live
in the area, and -.-,iope.rty owners have asked to look into this project.
Profes-,Dr 'v:3rburtcr., a:�i then I'd like to come back and m.3:, a =ew
conclud:.:,y remark. Profussor Warburton is a professor : _ arcl.itecture
and pl_nnin : in Sc::Dol or. Engineering and Architect _rc: at t::e
Universlt-;: cf .. a lie's also engaged in private, pr�ftssional
Consulting in architecture, engineering, urban and regional
plan.iing. o has 3,.chelor of Architecture, and t-L Skidmore, Owens,
Merrill for European Study from %,IT. He is a
member of 3e _l Nt.i the :National Honor Society, and he
received a Ma;;,.er of Archlt,.�c;.ure, and a of City Planning De(3rees
from Yale Univer:;it, . Ir. a.cditi n to being in private practice in New
York, Chic:,ego, 4aS.t:::'.gton, 'Mr. Warburton served a_, a to the
U.S. Depar-ment. --)f and 'ii'nan Development In washinr:ton, from 1972
to 1977. And h .:,s :i spud assistant to the Secretary of Urban Design
from 1967 to 1972. i:; hoer c-i d in numerous states, Colora(lo, ;'lorida,
Illinois, Maryland, New jersey, and so on. Professor
Warburton has published over sixty professioi,al articles and he's an
advisor to Industrial Forum and Progressive Arcizitecture. Hu is an
associate author of the award'ing winning book, "'Man Made America, Chaos,
or Control", and he's editor of the :ix hunderd page volume, "Housing
Systems Proposals for Operation Breakthrough". And he received the
S.
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Mr. Spatz (continued): special award of the J.S. Department of Housing
and Urban Development of 1972. Professor Warburton`.
Mayor Ferre: All right, you have ... how long do you want to speak ■
Professor?
Profe-sor warburton: I've got about five pages here. We'll go as fast
as we can.
Mayor i'err Sir, I don't want to be here much behonc two oclock in the
morning. ,and, i would be very greatful if you could s'urmari e your
statement: _n five minutes.
Professor ,; .rb'urton: For the record, my is Rai:%:; Warburton, I have d
consulting office at 420 Eout;i Dixie Highway in C. t.ii. `.abler. Mr. .-avor, _
and Corra-ni ssioners, as Carl indicated, I represent *)rot eYty owners _„ this
area, but in a larger reuse, I'n cor.curaed about th,t t-,eople that will
be living in t ._ housi;:a, that iS built in -his area. _ do not
to subsidized housing as my years _of sLrvi,::(: in the L'_ 1 gcv._-rnment
should indicate. W"no are the central. cl_y 10W . :A):.er,ate income
families who are to be `.Loused on tti":i_� _ itt ? .':gin :a,.a from recent
studies of the Census, they are lurl-_11 ici.'.1_ll i:C d..•3 :.y wow.en. For
example, in 1,3C more than .. JT all fw'n:lie?-,, of all backgrounds,
in central cities w`.:. : 11e. :ed b,, w0`Jen. 1f_� caic:.t hGuseno ds. In
a two b-edTo.'• ..'--c , t here'foru, glib c c'.iiC: e, at511y rc.3.: _ z lr. -one adult
with tw_ G.'. t:ir e cnildren, aLnd oI".e .., a _:it 't.�:tiC . _cht re ,resented
that, I tL.ni{. %ow, cc) nsi:iE:Y the ruSEr. ..-3
zoning, over t._ _n-_lre °J11T c i,-,t- acr(z.:o, man_-n; some Of these kind
of assumptions about unit averac;e and occupancy, we have about eight
hundred and fifty to nine hundred persons that can be accomodated on
that ; roperty. A •le..isity of about t,)nc nunrrcl- and persons
per acre, or prcl ah;ly cvcr one ,.indik�d chi'ldr :i i,t r ucr,-. ::ow, consider
the pro pOse6 1;.-5 zonln4 over five :(:i;.t ::i;1C acres, :'faking
the sat:-,t ate_ ,:'* 1Gris, GVer 1 rnre(_ tt":Cli::.a;".G 7t T,;UIlS C'; ,lit: be dccomoda'ted.
A density _ C'J _1vt ..ur,.7YCd iicr:,Onti _"'er acr,. tih_eu-undred
and scvEint, fivu children: Sur acr( . iq n.,Flc£... Now this
is inttL'uSt in that 1.. c over t%r "E tl S tlic liG ll:-tativI: density
present at the 1nfanous t�'-r.11tt !go Public Hou.-in(j Project in it. Louis.
That's t:,e reject of eleven story buildings that the National Delpartnent
of Housir.g and urban CeVElOi. ,eLt br'jda de:mOiishing .'i'-j':it ye"Ir.; ago. Now
lets ret;3i: Un JCc_._.,ful Sz. ..Gill:, h,(-' o.-:1y about
one t1nir,3 t}.c d,_:, ity of zonlr4 lt,.» ':L;dr nine y urCcilt Of the
density, ar,d G:._. f about sQv ntv :iOr__ .- G- ( ..Ci )l:t O f t:.� l rG:)Oseci
project. Yct, it was unsucct-��_fui. ! _ 1 i i w.s L:urt of the
study t:.cit :✓`. :',ti.'..C; DC•c-.:nr.�.,<� lr. _�.'G�, ;-i::: l.._i_'r .._ 1'lll�tt i€',O
when 1 w,..a aS::ingtv:f, and We f':unl:_ L_a-� :,E basic prcbler, wdS
two -Told. T:: �:rO ect: it iCJ. , ...._i CIiU dcnsi-, The aYGh CeCt Of
Pruitt-I:,c .Las ai o as cxc_e1_ 3r.t as my friend Lest_.r Pa^.coast. He
went on to :i,2 New York World hide Center a decade later. Sophisticated
i):.ysi.cal rehd_)Li :-at;.cr, eTfvrts were utilizu: a. ` n;_,J were of n-. �_ffect.
The managL!fient wi'.:; jcc_', iit:rhal)S a 3 good or ': :tt Y t:tclr. is i rCOoscd here.
And it recc;.vec. lari: • .ASii= of '-,elp from .Aiusringto:, in a:, _ffort tO solve
the problerr.:a. 1-` addi-:ion, .,,.' iiiOn i of dc.11arF of 6C.�ia1 servi::e racney
from HE a:,d G sour".._'Swab lit 11Zed, al' tO r i -9'_i. r.VCry day,
even day call G_. . _` s, not r'YOviCt?Q In t:fe rGt..�Li C? `Jc 1Gj IfCnt :]�dn It
held. It has tar.".C.,1 :._ T_;,at :C• -.rG'ect wa.3 ioor-ned from the be.;i nninCj
becaL::e of it.; .?1). trial icnsity, iighr_ c Gin eyt was wrong. Thus,
it was ti way 1Ower and ie1;S dense than
the propo t_',1 .'.Qr...'�i �: - U C»�; 1;L,. (.Lt. ..o'w _,tuCi-.: :..15E:d on i range
of d,.,Ve:ol)^1V1".t Yl;.✓i _ i -,cu .,;lc,wlf t:..,_ I'll jhrl'sus ter d lll[.a wiLn children
increa:;e i:, a hot, tr.0 C,c,jr,r f. 1S1: g related lOb1CI which G::C _rri lower
income :amilic-_ :'n•_ acw incOm,_- Tc7, IiCS In St. L iilc;, rher` 5elv,._;, learned
this and refu:Ied live in that i�roject. .`:is is why Charles
Shannon, Deputy 11-"UC --:T, of D,,&_ County :1.::: `su,j,1, .;`_t.d to thL Yrojuct
developers, in the-'rection that t,-sy at least pronicit children
in the one bedroom units, and•d11o'w no more than one child in the two
bedroom units. What is the dc'--clopers ruspcnse to this very liberal, perhaps
too liberal position? Even if the developers were to agree, these
117 APR 2 41980
I_,;
te 100...
Professor Warburton (continued): present developers, there remains the
problem of management over time, and the related problems the developers
on adjacent sites, also covered by the rezoning proposal, which could
only be handled by, perhaps restricted covenants. Certainly, there should
be no minor children in highrise elevator projects, such as that proposed,
because there are practical alternatives. Now lets look at some of the
things that have to do...
:Mayor Fe::re: I'll give you one more minute.
Profe_sor 'garburton: Thank you. The proposed rezoning will over tax --
public fa�_ilities. The record shows that the trunk, sir, is already at
full desiu:i capacity and that a trash and garl,age collection problem
exists. '.dnere are the hundreds of children to play, with the possibility _
of useable site open space of only about sixty �3gL;are feet per child. The
mini -park at loth Avenue and 111th .Street, Svc rthwc/f z.. is alr: ad`! flli l'J
used. And t:,e ropos:3 street .:Iosln cer 'air, _
of Wagner Creek in-.v _ ::ccus of a ma;,r
1'
resource. Y is the 'L rr-,an 7eS :gn Stll.:y f;; . :e re: -id r._ iai �rtlOn5
of the Civic C,cnter: T::e pro_Dos-._, :aaveri:tt' artec`b llvir.3 ccc -. it10nS.
For example, the nci6c level Oa this sitc XCUeC'S the sixty-five docible
E D ali:,wabi:. C.av- . low ..:,ise seventy
decible fl xi.,. indard, glvcn ;.II 24-C _ , _'art_ _ -u3r.. B. it's
a HUD reg-u: i7-LDn. It is prepo.ittrloi..b to ln':reasi 7ii_)ii ltlGn c.nsit", on
a Site �v ? Ti: dCti_'ii Wl."( aircraft nOsl airE.dy, l artic,ilarly '.%,ilen there are
other site's Fast of the Civic Center Wni n are av,;i laoie. :IGw, •.Je hav(2n't
talked about cri`.c. Studies bl• Oscar Neuman and others have found that
highrise buildings have more crime...
.flavor Ferre: Professor Warburton, you've now taken seven minutes and I
thank you very much, sir.
Professor Warburton: Perhaps someone else would like to give me their time
so I can continue. Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: The Chair will deny that at this time. And I will permit
you to conclude your statement after...if this doesn't take more than
another Your. In another hour, I'll let you finish your statement, sir.
Mr. Spatz. Mr. :Mayor, I asked that I be able to complete my statements.
I didn't use my three minutes.
Mayor Ferre: Sir, you have taken...
Mr. Spatz: Now a total of ten minutes between the two of you and you may
sit down.
Mr. Spatz: Sir, I just have one point, your honor.
Mayor Ferre: Sir, I will recognize you on rebuttal and at that time you
can let Professor Warburton finsih his statement. That will be in another
hour. We have fourteen other speakers before you.
Mr. Spatz. Your honor, I just have one thing. I'd like to hand out a
statute. It's 42, U.S. Code, 1437F. Now this is...
Mayor Ferre: Fine, hand it out and we'll hear the next speaker now.
Mr. Spatz: Mr. Mayor, I think that you're one sided on this...
Mayor Ferre: You're out of order, sir. You're out of order.
'' Mr. Spatz: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: I will recognize you again. You will have plenty of time
to rebutt. There are fourteen other speakers. Will the next objector...
t US APR 2 er 198.,
V
C
tC
Mr. Spatz: Mr. Mayor, we're not the proponent of this...
mayor Ferre: You are the opponent, and you will have ample time to
rebutt. Now how many times do I huv,2 to tell you that? The next speaker
please. The next opponent? Are there any othe speakers in opposition?
(INAUDIBLE COAL' FNIT FROM THE A1JDIR:JCE)
Mayor Ferre: :11 right, I'll tell you what, maybe we ... you're aoing me
a great favor now. That means we :ion',_ have anymore sneakers. How -luny
oth(_'r speake_._, wish to be ht.,.rd? All right. Please line up and :uts go
through al_. the speakers and then I will recognize Professor Warburton
again. Go ahead. You've got three minutes.
Ms. 31a�orgine Wahl: My narle is -,eor jin e Wahl. I admit there is a desperate -
need for housing in this area. There is a desper::t.e :.eed for housing
In the whole City Of Mla i. You can't pin. -point jus,- this area. A!� a
tax payer, rG >t?nt t'k jiving a`J<:'} of a`Ortv-:lye th G'.:531".G, Jr 1 .t:. art d
and uevCi.ty-Cl j:':t po-, n _ twCnt','-f i V Q S,-1a2 ._ tLI''C C.f .;Ur ..._r k_'t .., ;a11,d
deGlcatt:Cl r1 jht5:-„i-wa_75. Ancl th..t's what- the <7Entlem, n,
approximat'31:: , and it'_- pretty close. _' 4::.`:'t. t C r (.3t of my time to
Professor Warburton but t::at fib.:-_, I would like vu_y muciz for the board
to give me over an acre of _ Ln this area. (APPLAUSE)
r•r. Mcnroe G-11'. mr. mayor and Mr. comn15s1Gners, my name is Monroe Gelb,
and I han cn to be a property owner night in the a:;-acent area. I'm one
of the owners of 1465 N.W. 19th Terrace. I've iivud in mdami for about
forty-seven years. I did come fr.:ri a ce ncrete ;u^,qle in 'New Yor:: and I
recall the 3rewnsvill�7! area very vividly and I believe that some of you
may have `:card as to what ha,_;pened to tl-at particular area. One of the
points that: _.: a. '•-pOrtant t L'i Y in mind, is the position as fa.' as
HUD is ccnct rncd, and the ,and havC3 c(,,)ies of these
statutes t`-.at like to hun.Ci Lo each o: yCu, If .1 ,.c,J Ana
the statute W ;tCt, 1S applicable, d: d T'M t,G1n3 _.7-solute a ;%Orticn of It
and read c:.' y the per tl::t_.n t. portion. i GthVr l t::3? inC i j a :y other provision
of ti:is. section, after Octci;'.:r 7.2th, 1977, the Su._r.t tar•; ahali prohibit
highrise elevatcr :ro;ects for Fam li _a with chlluren. anless there is
no practical al*ernative.. *;cw, I nhink we're all familiar with wi:at has
happened in ill ::rise Erea, par`_ic,..;.:ar, in thy:: j articular instance where
the representations hiave3 ht-en arc' . A-:d wu're: t J have a nineteen
story b'. ilcGl_ (c w-'th id 7_ 1•�:. k'i':.. "il_t:Y CC>i".'t object to that, we
encourage :no'aa in g . I can recal ;- way back i n the early 4C)' s . I took a _
course - rom ' hi. _niv,rslty of Flor;.da in housinc , ;any; atthat time there
was a luc}: of housing. T'.:e're's n, question a::out it, and we want it for
the nu_ •,,e don't ,;ant time '-',u-it _n Xiar.:1, ana that's What
this is going to amount to. A time borrtD. You've oot a situation for
fire arotection -r a nineteen st•:)ry 'cuildin; ? You have inact (_uate
sewerage iCllit:t:.'•; •.•ou reall•,' don't nave• the SruCi, that wele made. And
what is ver: _ rr.: t and real L crt'•.nent, is -1 have a letter frorr, the
Depart; rr.t. of ..Ju.__. _ �..� UrbaI: •.at&c A7rl:. 9th, 1980. Arid
this Patt'..cuiar and tl' is i , from
depart:"„,nt :l is :'lost is irc_u:n_` Ldr: uS ':1Scourd?es 'highrise
apartments : ;r i,w •)s:t family hou:,.ing. :pow I':. :_;oir.q to pass t::is letter
over to you : ut r_ ^it arl; uelineates what we've been trying to .:gay. That
this particular pro ec:, in its nrusent state, is not 5cinq to be an asset
to tLe coy,-minity but is going to onstr too many probicris. Bear In mind too...
:sir. Lacasa: Sir, your ..hrt::e hies c:s are up.
Mr. Gelg: Give 7,t 3 mifll'.C? . t'. r r, mind too, we had a col:.plete
hearing or: this topi : b .fort_ thy: :.oninc Board, of which I know you're
cognizant, and at :,.t ::earincj the vote was one for, and five against.
I'd like to say in co:. :.i.:i :"„ si:.--e I'm beinq shortant_i'., what's the
real basis for conversi--: from an R-3 zoning to an 1; 5. I built a
protect, I have an inter::..,_ 'n It today that'E worth maybe six hundred
thousand dcliars, and I'm not Ztandiny 'here selfiEN]ly 'r,ecau,_e when I built
my protect, it's a thing of beauty, a thine: you elite aGITJ re. It's something
that will be there for the next fifteen-iwQnty years and still be beautiful.
,
119 w�R 2 4 119 %131.3
ist
le
I -
Mr. Lacasa: Thank you ; much, siz . Your the t:t_ :.......ces are up. Next
speaker, please.
Ms. Stella Moreno: Mr. Mayor and Commissioners, my name is Stella Moreno.
The area that you see on that map, the ten lots that are not in yellow
is our property. I've been in that neighborhood for thirty-three years.
I have seen this area when it was a country club. At r_h..t time, it was
a very nice area for residential, for :,uople witi-, families ,and hc-,.es.
Today, it is no longer that. If you' 11 look to ,;our iC.,t di i'Ct' rigi�t
which is 14t'„ Avenue, you have t1--e VA Complex and _.hQ Jackson liospital
Complex. On-, block up is 20th Street. It is compIctc_:y indk.::.,-cr1a1. There
is a creek which is six foot deep with water and also, you :,avc: r,othing
but apartr,ent houses surrounding it. It is fine for cu 2. i,s, .nd
who work in `_..., hospitals and wait to walk Ome but it is very difficult
for people w� Lh hildren. There arc nto t;azk ht_rt_ _ no re.crc:•atinnal
areas in the immediate area, you've got a four lane :,:. on 14t;: Rvenue r
and a creek. Wcat kind of surrounding area is r:aat too bring
ninety-five, minimum children to this area, i.lus a 'c;ulldin;c th_tt i:,
sixteen stories, has an cl,%vator, when statist1C5 prove thet In Y.:rk
twenty children have died On _21evazo2-_, in these• t`l:c: of 1_,, _.._ 71e 1-projects.
It r:3S nothing to do with low lnccme or an, thl:l,: ..;e I-ecausQ you could
rent to p.2c;•le Of low income, it wOu !De fir(_ it It were to tine
hand icanr,ed, or if it were for tn.— F,ldcriy. But for children it is a very
bad area. T:._; ' _. what we'r. .. Oi� Dosed. We're :cot off,)oset. to the
Zoning l: ._ 2. . . we .. aiC tO 11Ve With L.:._ ZO nln, , d u.'._ it for
,he handica '_:i " for the cif i,.r'ly, not ::or fam:lles 'n'ltr; children.
Where are t1.oSc c..il aren going to _,lay? Take a look at ti: s lrrour.ding
areas of apartmtnt_�: and look at .hero those children, are. Th'<:y are out
on the strce~, mat' 17th Street. If .,ou go doe.., i- in the clay time
from the VA _Darki:.g it is cum cr to 'cum?er. Gr. t;,� City pro:. rty
they rave signs out :.er r. that...rignt across there block 5, is ow::ed
by Ceders Of Lt2bon3n hO_:Oital . Th"y havr' Sly:;S all &rour.d It crying
:10 ere; %aS [ilntj , <: 1::' t Clark , (o t.a r 3:7 f t li . _ C:ur1r..: _.7C' �;t jIiC rr, are
millions :arc-,. police are tlr,_'1 of givli:q ti k tS becaustc there is
no parking, _d ;•ou want t,) put children in an area like thdt We
oppose it for f;i ,llieS. We do not cpy.ose it for t1:c handic,,Apped or for
the elderly. And I think that those people that are in favor are basically
thinking they are in favor of it for low income famil.es but it won't
help families with children, and that's what we're talking about. (APPLAUSE)
Mr. Lacasa: Next.
Dr. Reuben Sarkin: My name is Dr, Reuben Sarkin. I'm a retired physician
who has an interest in the area as I have some investment in this
particuls~ locality. The people here who ure opposed to this re:,.)ning are
fearful of :-ii -,t, the vandalism, and t e crim,, w;:ich +.nese prv;e,_,ts will
bring to this :,rt_u . The blight and danger is not only tl-:e living area
but also the co- unity of hospitals, men -kcal :;c:wels, .:nd yovt_rnment.
buildings ..'sting hundreds of millions o dGi.lars. to I hcar.i that
this thing is `^mina before the Commission, I spent the -pare -ime of the
last month reaciir., literature in regard to this mat_•rr. :e of the
books is culled "Beh:.nd the ht" !tto Walls", bl Lee R 1:'.'r: "i r, a rGfe550r
of socicol0 :,%, '. iiarvar"�: 1L, "._ bo,_k by rofessor
Oscar Nt_umar: a c. l Led .._ ' P
:•:� tale Space a„d Cri::.t� .,ver,_:on t".rough
Urban Desi,ii. t1n:: Ilri,iliy, :'he Death and Lift-, of '.,rum. itt_"l: o:. �1.:.inSnI
by Jane Jacobs who _s associata editor of the Archituctura: FoL'uM. In
addition, I've r<<..i numercus magaL , :a :7 and new_papr'rs which _o:.cerned
tnemseivos wit, thin, r t. And what I have learned from this reading,
is that ._tl .veC ::Ili: wOr,", aii ov.' is the Unitt_d State':,, Zurcpe, and Asia,
these project. il3✓u }_,_en a `ai_uce. riuginning in the Orient, we find in the
cities of ac,tl :iui.(j Kc)-,,j, t;;ut the: 12":-:.livicudl lying :.^.ere were:
very unhappy ThaC it re,:,aiCed an oria;aatlor, Ci)ur C of
three months before the could ii'arn to 11Ve t"IV' N. :;C C1 1 .LC rcn
living In these lirGjC't., w';re h ^7nd in t'-.elz wort:, ],_:.t:12" C, WOrK
in comparison to .tOplc 1_Vin g in low density homes. Gci_cj West to Greece,
we find that a sympos.iu:;. 1':c ld if, reece by Irving Pi.an.nvr.s came out with
the statement that 1c is a cri;;c in view of the existing Y_nowlc'cge to build
highrise apartments for low cost :sousing. Skipping over to Sweden, we find
that a survey showed that eighty perc�;nt of the families living, there want to
1210
1 st
APR -1 1960
C X
Dr. Sarkin (continued): get out of their apartments. Going South to
France, we find that President ,iscard D' estaing has issued an edict
that no apartment houses can be built over six stories. This proclamation
was issued after a thorough study of the hcusing situation in France. Going
across the English channel to Great Britian, we find that these highrise
buildings for the underprivileged are very unpopular there. They are
called pigstyes, dungeons in the sky concrete fiats, cellars in the sky,
and similar terms. An architect...
Mayor Ferre: All right, sir, you'be not gone four minutes. How much
longer do you think you'll need.
Dr. Sarkin: I think about four more minutes.
Mayor Ferre: You have one more minute.
Dr. Sarkin: Well, in the one minute that I have, I want to show you some
pictures that we have, first of the existing apartments in the ar- a. This
is the kind of housing that we want in Miami. That one . "u Idi.ng there
is the Bermuda House and the other is the Trce C apartments, we're
all within a few bloc;Ks of this pro,�ct. `I,-�w i want to show you what will
happen to this nighri`le ii. iivc to tt r �'Gar`i. TI,u L:r<jo jt_ t is in
Philadelp'::ia and the lower rc ,e.:t :✓as in St. ;.c;..:.s. ,;ow Jut show another
picture. Now this _. di.ather i�ictire it wr.at in Live O tk'n years
when you brine tr.es people with c;Iildren lr. t:: :,iq:;ri
And thuSC picture's COMB cluoS31 . i>o0:.. to
Now t:^.ls is the 2:ultc—i�Q in Lt. w-.t..re !-I.Mllles
were. jput in with k�reAt t.;1s l:> what .i3���L ne-•,"1. :vow
picture :ier'a , want ycu to pa: far;. cular attention. These buildings
were "clown �i% i , ter: to gear" because they represanted hopeless
housing situation-. The :overr,,ent had no alternative but to blow the
damned buildings up. I thank you.
Mayor Ferre: Ai1 right, next s,eaker. I assume there a_e no further
speakers then? Well, then why don't you get up and move a little bit.
Lets go.
Mir. Fosmoen: xr. Mayor, may I have a point of personal privilege before
this gentleman speaks? I wonder if this gentleman would care to repeat,
on the record, the accusation that he made.
Mr. Jim Moreno: I apologized to the lady, okay?
Mayor Ferre: The accusation of what?
Mr. Fosmoen: That he made to the Community Development Director when
she finsihed her presentation.
Mr. Moreno: Ye::, I was angry, Okay. Because there was something she
said the pro3cct was endorsed. I was wrong, I got angry. You're
a brillent man. Would you allow me to talk please?
Mayor Ferre: Aft+r you apologize, I will.
Mr. Moreno: I apologized, okay, Mr. Ferre? Fine.
Mayor Ferre: Okay, go right ahead.
Mr. Moreno: Mr. Terre, I would like, and also Mr. Gibson, all of you up
there have been...
Mr. Ongie: Your name and address for the record.
Mr. Moreno: My name is Jim Moreno, 1274 N.W. 7th Street, Miami, Florida.
We are not ... we need he.•usinq. We do need higher density zoning. We need
it very badly, all right? Gur only cu soon to the: people of this board,
because we were told all week L r.a, forget about it, there's no use
talking to the Zoning Board. They have made up their minds. Don't
even come down here and talk, Well, I tAlked to a few people around the
121
A P R 2, 19106 0
Mr. Moreno (continued): Washington, D.C., St. Louis, Philadelphia,
New York, and I asked these people how not to get myself in trouble with
the Commission, how to talk directly to them and try to help this
community out. We're not against two .,toric�s, four stories. I've talked to
so many people now that I've come to the following conclusions. I started
with Larry Dale, In Washington, D.C. , and I said, Larry, pl:oasP tell- me
if I'm wrong or not buca':,5e I stand to gain at tale zoring change. i.'il
make a lot more m,_);;ey. Another quart_,r or a mill ion. Gc Lars. ci:"e, 1'11
make it and ;' it be happy making; it, bu*L is that tno r.;;i:t thin , t j do?
Okay: Let--xr lain why. :lr Fc:rre, void-C. a .L.uz:inc_SS man, Gr:av?
Your rt Jlit..`.1G: i-rcc.:Lus you. You're .. ,aiy rt 5[ie:::".rc: In t;,. u .• p1: lty.
Would yo. .; ESL your 7ciney in a17
-ro_r:ct tnaV na3 Uv,_r
ratio of La. ..re- Woul l "ou? hu an:,wCl 1:, you SOU_ .;1't. Mr. .'i.lIBmer
wouldn't. Mr. ibson, woull, you grant tc be onc. of _.:e hco _le tl_., ,ire
in this bull,iinG, ,n fivu ye-ar:; th.-t arr' in misery? We .:a =hem tJ i:e
happy. Ci0 two stories, j0 four StOrlcs. In t„CI.Onir� CO^;mlttt.r_, ti;•_-y
asked these peo i,ie to come back with a new PUD zoriiIltl Man, makc: them
garden type, mange them two stories. We don't Care if i.:' low _ t
housing. What wt_,, don't want is a gu�;rantued fiii':re. :;cod.:;' ir, this
Commission, ::r.. 1,ihson was talking before, ht'd i life on the line,
well I've slnot my mout.-n off, so . sr.L'.:1ci n't out .. feel very
strop jly about ',is. 1 want an i..lvestica":ion. 1 would like each and
everyone of you to pick u- t.. )hone and call Wa.I":inilton. Call the
cities t,,at have t :i I must have si,. nt `wo hunared dollars in.. phone
calls Lhl '1 called yesterJay, 1 called Yanhattan and I asked
the man, 1 said, :-:r. Nodel, I hC-:r that here's i; t,ne country
where these highrise projects, low cost housing have be,_�n a success.
He said, Mr. Moreno, that's probably r.igh't. he concurred wits
Larry Dale, which said that he col;.3iderec all of buildin-s
in operation right now in Various degrees of failure. Okay:'
He sal-, but Tim, I'll tuP you, lit: said, ve do not erect these
anymorc- crk_r t them _. an area w :c=e we can add schools
and where wo can aaC j'i .%cjrOUnd ii:a wrier we c•in j=1vi t,e eople enough
room and eri0ucj;;...bt CaUSC. hi' says,, C.ven in th. tl cast' ':.e 5a'. S, wi: try to
keep enough off ;,,f that floor not t.c fern --angs. :aw if vou giv people
a garden type area, a little G.t more ireC c1G ., a: ,� Like `._.' ? �u-Ler related
companies, 1 called hous_;".j elat(.d cc)m:)ar:l(L,,s t%Ci'' in '4Ew YGrk.. I asked
them, I said, do VC,ll many c. ar;_J of thoSQ units ants h Sale. no, but we have
a couple Under construction. I:r V ar managincj t'—e ninety percent success,
the elderi.', the two storie s and '�.hc `Our stories. They are not m,inaging
seventeen and icjhtL.:.n story have fallc'_d all aicund the
country. itiriy do we want to p'ut a n h.ri5' that has such a
high rate of failure in the Civic Center Complex?
Mayor Fer::e: All right, thank you. Next spea:�.cr.
'•4r, John Keller: y name is John Keller, I live at 1437 N,W. 13th Terrace.
I live a few blocks away from this project. Members of t-e Commission, I'd
"like to brin<; ap 1 plan that 'England came up with afTor Wcr.l: i4ar lI to help
relieve no,.;si ng shor`:a,;es after the bombing destroyed or:•on. Highrise
apartments, it was -uppcsed to be the cheapest, the % ay to ; ut
roofs over t,.. Xr_,,jc-:; :..:;c'. in T.:._rland. ;�<11, they ext:,r:cn'row highrise
apartments _,hG'i1c 1, rzn. cj&G. ._n .,. rig is well ex `tr.: ."E:d in h;lW ..ighrise
apartments s:•loul,. riz nac�ed. Richur,:l Sei rent , a 1 a_i..;;r arc;;it ct in
Englan , saidt;:: a ;E'. f tall a...,rtrients for, families is over, because
the public ha_ .lrn d •3y;: _n ,t them. _i e tenants L�'af`cr rrcm :;e;vous
.iychosis and that t'aG:_ Li. li.j(1 crime rate, The the :illil.'1P.g
the higher the raLO, ti,i�; ;,1anS says- Ti .,'-,K-thC'r of sni,l 1 c':.ildren feel
imp rison,�rI. ^.'f'.,_> st., ;),-n of urine im.:e trate L, the h,-a11 _;c_.-.'_;ters create
nuiscanct ;:,., ,:u ,c i3 a.; of i-,lay space.. Wt;c•r, car. they t_xL:end their
energies? Ridirlc :i.i. ;,c'es in hailw3ys? Or ricli;-., up add down in the
elevator? lriq:ria._ is a lur.'./iy way of li'✓ir,g .L:d 1. works for the rich
because tt' :-•y can a. _.u°, staf: ' .o contrr,l _
^' ' � .;,.r,.:1•__ t•levat_;;rs, entrances,
lobbies, and so forth. u:other arcni.tect, Mr. John Partridge qualified
in 1050, designed many of t,,-� ten story a atrt_mcnt -,n London,
said in the fL•ture, he would not des: r.:n ^r.ore. many ,;ccia; problems
seem to be coming down to earth. :he _pity i.z. that new ideas are based on
the experience of development that went wrong. Where did highrise go
wrong? It happened out of fear that space would run out and density
i s t 1ti2 A P R" 4 1980
C
14
fi
Mr. Keller (continued): become so great that towns would split... spill
out to the country and more like lava over to landscape. The cure is
worse than the disease. Family hiq,r.::e apartments are complete failures,
and I would not design family apa:rtm.::nts above two stories in !;eight in
the future. Family hi(-jhrise apartments did not work i, England, did not
work in the U'nited Stator, and clid not work all over the world, and it
will nog work -.. Tank you.
Mayor Ferre: ?.re there any other speakers in opposition? Yes, ma'am?
Pat, do you rant to be the last speaker or do you want to sneak now?
Mrs. Pat Kal er: Yes, you asked I be last, I'll be last. You have
another one.
,vxs. Thelma Sarkin: My name is Thelma Sarkin and. 1 am also a property
owner in the area. I would like to direct the Cor;missioners to some
sociological studies that have .cen cc.,: -.ducted in regard to t:nese highrises,
such as this one that's directly' I):l".1nd you. Professor idii,Wat'. "w.O
is a Soclolog.- cal Professor at Harvard University, na 'in k'1L'"; some
revealin facts, that it's :;L not t 1:7'3yr: t;� l;Yl �.. _'ow income 2OOle
j
with housing. They must rcceivc ; _ ��r vocaticna ...�sininrj in order
to learn `low to live in t.-.ese ho't�ses. If not., you will. placing very
many un appy : eOt,le In a 1" t,;;- �e tlnt7 that )ll;;'_ "::UI )��llr.C's thc: � roblem.
Since t:;ls ?rLl' ,. 7,:, D -ompiux thcit you see b(--ni .d ';lUll, In St. Louis,
i Was suC; .. �._. ,. ,r!J ".i.G Federal (jover rimer.,,: S:,,nt usl1`; t_: c)ert�:i and
C _,`JC.., �C:ql: Into 'iE arc_a to �tli.a`i tl-,e problem and to
Social LJo r. �, 3".d t
c?Valudti the :C35c n or t'.i �ibuS:tr. Ure yUa ::ciu ':-'lt.int!- dV rS hundred
and slxty-twO Jto;:Y, una elcven
ow G'u havc 3 tWC:i -SE„lE:n .Jt_:rc(,,n'- vacancy
11
factor despltf ,_: e :',Cll '.n 1 :.Ort.ye? -he took four years to
construct and f.i. v _ Veur- to a ,;rol-llcm. nt, ,r:.r•. _ , `_nt: cic- ators
are '1^.3aLe, t:;'_ n31 S havQ the 3C:{ual assa;:lts, the
drinkin,j, ttiL� T`,-:e a -uote of
some.�ne W:,� in ::Gus.. deJ ,c,.t. ; uot� , "`h'-'
Authority Cannot kEt J OY:c'' in this reject. _r.c! DGt1Ce _ur.1Ct KceD
order. c:otten co t:`E :lty J;�jCr' C3'...00 CVt.
come in. Trle last timt" '^t../ did, it tUr:N_'1 1ntc, a riot. The: Crooks, is
thev want tG es_upp- Lrte -%o 'Cc, ]11 t:.eV 1-.:1' _ ,., d'J I5 CJ1t: '.i:U this
place to h.aeunr_::ote . 71r, 19r 5, there ware far ili .a that reported
threatening experiences to the social wort-.ers w:o investicated this
project. To cDmLple e t:ie Sl, tint C=, of thi., .;a-,,-icular :li�JtEd area,
for`" -or _)i_rcunt O= tnt: � vOple ',,;fig have 1lv_'C. --i �:a?'_' I:aVCt bCE]P. VLCt1mS
of robberies. Thirty purc`>-it of thu eople heve bt_._.. .;it .:a.! inq
ob-;U Ct:7 +rOI "CG from win lows of r.L'.,
have lhev-il ,>.._,J _ated. .. have bet.:n
ift%-on,'_ of =oj:.t'_ avt: n3C- Sixteen ?ercent
of the '.;C lc.., either Lra_n ia_C Jr ,,.;1C;'.l:`.c ] ra:`u. TQn nt•rCC ,t have
De(n ;.<'1!: c `. l juri'S :o c:,, -ci intini-1L ' :'.er t are other
authoriti.e-, anl)a:: ntly i`ty _ s :as ^uR OUt.. ?rpf'3 ;or \eur.^.an of NYTJ,
Of the Housing tt or-1, the higher
the h,-ailc1iI q, the yreatt_'r t',e crime ratty. ....., :ia:: Jeon -ubstanti.ated.
If you Comm.ssi7)ners :,rti into:: »teci in thc: PuL-tic we -fare of the community,
you are Joinci r'^e 'vror.q r.ninq '-y ,iilcwir,g this kind of structure, that in
five years will ;-(• this Kc nd of structure.
Mayor Fcrre: All right, thank yos very much. Pat.
Mrs. Pat Keller: I'm worried wu.�ried that. lather Gibson didn't hear
Mrs. Sarkins presen•ation. Can we yet Father Gibson?
Mayor Ferre: I think Father Ginron, after being here for fourteen hours
is entitled to go to the bathroo;n. Co ahead.
Mrs. Keller: I'm afral i when our blood sweat and tears is concerned, we
expect him and all of the Cormnissioners to be here and listening.
Mayor Ferre: For all of fourteer, hours. Go ahead.
t
ist �43 APR 24 1980
1..
Mr. Albert Clydefield: My name is Albert Clydefield. I have witnessed
what they have stated about St. Louis, and I would suggest to you, Mayor,
and to the Commissioners, to contact the City of Atlanta, Georgia, and
the former Governor Maddox of Georgia. They have...
Mayor Ferre: Did you say Governor Maddox?
tor. Clydefield: The Mayor of Atlanta.
Mayor Fer::a: Oh, I remember Governor Maddox of Atlanta. N
Mr. Clydefi-ld: Okay. I'm sure brother Gibson does as well. They
primarily, in the last...
Mayor Ferre: I don't think that's the one you want to quote though.
Mr. Clydefield: No, I'm not quoting him, I'm merely stating t:.a` they
studied this program about highrise versus lowrise, an,; :� l-,ntans
had tremendous success with lowrise apartment ',likings, or apartment
housing areas. St. Louis is exac' l,` a,3 -icr.: sec: it there. I use to
drive by it every day going to work. But, I'm sure if the Commissioners
and their planners will into this program and contact these other
cities, that th,�y'1 stick with the lowrise housing and forget this
highrise Highrise, high crime.
Mrs. Pat Keller: I know the Mayor is waiting with bated breath to hear
what I've got to say and I don't care to address myself to only three
Commissioners.
Mr. Lacasa: Pat, I will appreciate it if you use your turn now because
if you don't, I'm going to call for the proponents since you are the
last speaker.
Mrs. Pat Keller: I'm Pat Keller, President of the Allapattah Community
Association. I live at 1437 N.W. 13th Terrace. I own lots fourteen and
fifteen of Blanton Park and lot thirty-four of St. Johns Park. We are
opposed. That is, the Allapattah Community Association is opposed to
the rezoning of Martin Nursery from R-3 to R-5. We are also opposed
to the closing of our streets and alleys. I will submit these petitions
to you. Being present at the 23rd Street rezoning, they made great
point of the fact that the people that were opposed to the rezoning we're
the people that lived in the immediate area. So we did not run all around
Allapattah like some of us did... like some people did. We went to the
people that are directly affected and we have one hundred and seventeen
names of the people directly affected. Quite frankly, the others are
simply telling, me what should be done in my area, and I'm not interested
in what tYey've got to say. Those who are opposed to the rezoning, who
live in the ir.me•3iate area or own property in the immediate area, would
you please stand and show that you are opposed to the closing of your alleys
and street. Let the records reflect that, please, if you would. One
hundred and seventeen peoples who live in... almost adjoining the properties.
Incidently, you :.now that we never received notices. I don't know of
anybody that received notice that the matter of this rezoning was coming
up before the Zo.,inc- :Board. Fortunately, we had a good telephone communication
and I saw to it *.hat people were informed of it. I'm still am concerned
that my Mayc r i:s not listening to this. Mr. Lira made the statement that
the people at the community development meeting unanimously voted for
this project. You'll have to forgive me but Mr. Urra does have trouble
sometimes with ;,uriim,entary procedares. And he sure had trouble this time
because I receive. word from Ca~hy Leff and she tells me that no vote was
taken on this _alticuiar project and that you people could listen to the
tape should you so lt_;ire. I also note that the people involved with
Community Development, the people on the Community Development Advisory
Board, there's not a single one of them, here are their names and
addresses, not a single one of them live in the Civic Center area. This
gentlemen here, I'm going to ask hiyi, where do you live, sir? (TRANSLATED
INTO SPANISH).
ist 124 APR 241980
(INAUDIBLE COMd:ENT FROM THE AL•DIFNC )
Mrs. Keller: N.W. 21 Terrace. Yes, he also proported to represent me
and he doesn't live in the Civic Center area. R-S zoning, as you know,
is high density, it's no secret.
Mr. Lacasa: Pat, your time is up. How much time do you need?
Mrs. Keller: Very little.
Mr. Lacasa: One more minute, Pat.
Mrs. Kcl?c It is no secret that nigh density breeds crime. The crime"
in Alla?at..h is a continuing problem. You don't need me to keep
telling you about it. our traffic problems are known to all 0-1' ,,cu.
At present, we can't park in our own drivewciys because! n`ople that are
going to the Civic Center have parked there. We now have before us,
at any rate, we're opposeu to the closing Cf our strc-c,ts. T:,ose are our
streets, 1 Tho6C i " car i J`✓s. :4't? ..'Gn't 7t our "lvt". a> We
don't want t't_ last .'t'•mairin -Dire,_ of watvrfrGr.t t mac`l c.... _T1V 'n aWaNI.
That's Ours anc; 'J re c4oir:'3 tG Wrdi-, it aroand _tr le necks and clutch
It to oir bobom :..'.0 lou pecr,iic haV' ..O 'Lim tel.i us what 51:o'.:ld he
done wltn our szruet3 aLCI aiiE'✓S. h-'s Could SLrvct I-- a wal'--wily, ye.s,
:Vlr. Ar^1a,.dr, Lacasa, t, A C C. Guns. And _ 0"; navC 3 n'izl is .:rli_ t to
represe ,t us. T!iesci ,re our Waiti-wiV: , tne3e dr. c;.:r potential h1r;F] paths,
and t:zat's o,'=.at tie're creaming about ana u:to ran :i; , we're gainq to have
it that 'r.'1V. We nave no c ,_)Lan space , we i1 i`Jt ,:o �llJ.L waterfront land
in the Civic Center, and the delightful Lossibilitie3 that open itself to
us, we're going to See that it r,_r..air. open.
Mr. Lacasa: Thank you, ?at, your time is up.
Mrs. Keller: I'm iust anout finished. If you'll let me finish the
point about Mr. Schwartz.
Mr. Lacasa: Your time is up, Pat.
Mrs. Keller: Mr. Schwartz conducted a meeting.
Mr. Lacasa: There is no reason for me, Pat, there is no reason for me
to give you any advantages over the rest. The rest have abided by the
time, so...
Mrs. Keller: I'm sure you wouldn't, Mr. Lacasa,
Mr. Lacasa: I appreciate...
Mrs. Keller: I defer to the wishes of my Vice -Mayor. Thank you.
Mr. Lacasa: I will appreciate... thank you. We have heard from the
opponents...
Mr. Carollo: Mr. Vice -Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: All right, I promised Professor Warburton...
Mr. Carollo: mr. Mayor, if I may.
Mayor Ferre: Sure.
Mr. Carollo: '!mow ghat we've heard from all these fine people both for and
against, I'd li,ct, to for the ruxt, maybe five minutes, qive an opportunity
only to any Cuba:, naters and racist that would like to speak either for
or against it. On--, that q roun of people, if I may.
Mayor Ferre: All rigr.t. Now, I Would like for you to give me a total
of all the minutes that have been used so far.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can I speak for?
APR 2 `l 198u
ist
0011.
Mayor Ferre: Are you for?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I work in the Civic Center.
Mr. Carollo: Ma'am, we stated that for the next few minutes we were only
going to let Cuban haters or racist speak. Unless you fall to either one
of those categories...
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Cuban?
Mayor Ferre: He's...listen, it's late in the day, it's been a long day.
He's entitl.::d to make his statement...
Mr. Carcl1o7 And we've given everybody the opportunity to express their
opinions her::, ! would hope that everyone gives everyone the equal courtesy
that they deserve here. _
Mayor Ferre: All right. Now how many minutes of the opponents talked?
Mr. Carol'_o: If there is no Cuban haters or racist here, L-en I would
suggest that we go on with anyone else who would 1.Lke to speak. Thank you.
Mr. Ongie: A total of forty minutes.
Mayor Ferre: Forty minutes, huh? I wasn't too far off, was I? All right,
how many more :rcinutes do you want? You have forty minutes. All right...
(INAUDIBLE CO'•t4E.ITS FROM THE AUDIENCE)
Mayor Ferre: All right, I'll tell you what. Pat, so that you won't say
that I didn't give you all the opportunity that you wanted, I'm going to
give you two more minutes, and I'm �)ing to rive Professor Warburton five
more minutes. :]ow, isn't that fair' All right? Okay. That gives you
forty -serve:, minutes. Go ai:eal. The opponents have only had twenty.
Go ahead. You have ;'iv,: minutes.
Professor :iarburton: I guess they want me to go first. Thank you very
much, Mr. ?avor. The Zoning Board correctly found that the proposal
adversely affects safety. Studies, many studies have shown that
highris:: bui`,dings for low income families have more crime than do low
rise buildin,s. This has been ncntioned be'_'ore. Then why permit the
�ilcii, r of to. family ,.ir. rises w::ic ,. will rec-uire :Iic,;:er ; ubli
budc_ts for r::;L`c servic_s 'I-:ar. _f '_o•,, rise Lcnin, i:- retained. As
far as a`e low income family housing is cor,cenr•red, lower rise is
equivalent to lower crime rates and lc:wer pol ca servi: budgets. Because
the proi,c c:: r :--oning anci :proposed-ro-ect will not maintain t;:e low rise
character if ~'..0 neighborhood, and will not successfully provide a
decent_ nome ar._i a suitable living environment for low and moderate income
famili.e:;, t'-.o .. tional legi_ lation requires, it will So deteriorate,
as in the St. example. But it will very adversely affect
surrour.cii.ncT ;;ram:}E y %,_7ios, as the Zonin,; Board found. Speaking
OT e—on'�rrtic::, it .__rta-,nly is not necessary to concen,_r&tc- 7*,7,mot or much
of the m.ui l-::.r-...y housing °Hmand for the Civic Center area on ore
three, or ti'.'c., c_ six acre si.� , w'hcn it can _a-, il`.' be accomodated at
rational de:.si`._1 on •✓acant Civic Center land under present zo%ing, on
all sides o:: _:;e ::ir:c Center. Thus, it is possible for the HT'n secretary
to lo,,icaily firs, i..zd,tr the S -a Svct.ion, that Mr. Cilbread, that there are
rractical ai_t.. r:. �tiv t-) this highrise elevator nreject, and zoning
for fza%'_it's wl,-h 1:hi.Ldrrn. :L i5 a1s0 GS_.1Ji for you, and for
the developers to _.,:d a. r::atives. I submit that a:,y, I :submit
that tl-.ere is n inn ii'll ce^n::t:r:.c,t .o assist this .:articular protect
with this c:ev 'opc ana I woulc:, if there is one, I would like to see
the piece of Which it's writ -en. I submit that any H;JD approval
is contingent o: :.u. ' tat " ve _ __ iew of the kin,is of Captors I have
entertained, and othc.~s, and will be denied on tasis of legislation. The
1971 S%-nnosium which was convened and conducted by world renouned
authorities, people like Bucky Fuller and Kenneth Clark, and Margaret Meade,
and so forth, on urban society, con--_luded that highrise housing for
families is criminal, 1971, is criminal. What is the crime? Political
' ^ APR 2 4 1980
f.
Professor Warburton (continued): or economic gain from the exploitation
of the ignornance or hardship cf others, that is the crime. Now, this
is not so new. I hesitate to mention, ComTissic.:cer „ibson knows, I say
I made this point twenty-six hundred years ago. Thus, I trust ti,at
you will vote: ac;ainst this proposed rezoning and right-of-way closings.
Thank you very much.
Mayor c'erre: Two minutes for Pat Keller to finish "ner statement, and I'll
give you two minutes too.
Mrs. Keller: Thank you, :•:r. Mayor. I wanted to m-a':'a the :cant, for the
records, t Mr. Schwartz gave us a presentation c: this new z;-ninq
at Dade Cor.,-,-.nit!. College. The ma;or pur,ose of the presentation was to
go', our input incldt?nt1V, none of us r ceivt td a notice of this. in
otrier words, here we have a sltuat;or. where oilr f".1turCS WerC• 4nV:'•17EC1 and
our imput w<,s considered a vital reason for the meeting, and I r.•ver found
anybody '.hat received a notice. Oh, I think I :.lit find one. Tr.o only
onuS that w,_re i;hcre were the Z�eor!C that ... most of t*,--- ,:F,_._,1'- '.y^:.re
there w,.�re people that I had notifl -c or i mjr:— _ _.., _ the
pacer, but nobcd!' rP_cL_Jv'_. anyi('L'_ r r_:3t]Ct �.
ninety-eight per,_e::t of those 01,_ c .e to tni_; r _�csei .:zoning,
and they also nb]ecte?d to thQ CluS1iG Gi the :t:J a.d tile dllr's and
the result':nq proposed n` ____E,'. :ztorl,' Ye-. ..ir,' !:'lannin-,j
Department is s'l. recommending these as I see it,
their reCo`.:. iatiUn s Are not V,!L jd. d: c' t i rt•i--) J: :OSE. 'r .':O r' alit t0
tell us '.-ow to function In our own aru,u when t.-C!!
area. we're, mad as hell and we're s7 mpl' not c,Qlnc; =o ,akt' It ::n)rlore.
We will _.roced t1nrough the courts or: necessary. The lessons the
23rd Strut retuning still apply to this matt•,r. Anci they sratc...and I
was amazec, to fl nc. that sortie of lou h&a not rt, id t.'._,; ad .:dic.-;.. iC'n. Did
you read the ad;udication, X.r. Ferre, of the 23rd streot rezoninq?
Mayor Ferre: No I did not.
Mrs. Keller: Very briefly, they mud: the statement, and I think it would
behoove each of us to pay close attention. A power :o amend or rezone
is not arbitrary. It cannot be exercised because certain individuals
want it dc•ne or they think it ought, to be done. It must be necessary
for the public (good. It is obvious that this rezoning and this closing
attempt of our alleys and cur streets is not for the public good, and thus,
we are opposed to it. Thank !you. (APFLA:JSF!)
Mayor Ferre: All right, ,ou have your two minutes like you wanted and then
you let the attorney close it. Okay?
Mr. Prieto: Y, know, you cut me short before and I see that you are
giving these peconle twice as much time.
Mayor Ferre: How much time do you want, sir?
Mr. Prieto: -ust a li.tt e bit. You know the reason wily all these big
lawyers anc' <t1l these big puc;ple are telling the blacks and the low income
people that the•J _:on't know how to live in a nice building? What kind of
people arr.: these to lead the other peoples liFe? They have no right to
do anyt'-;nq like' tha`. They dnn't. W`P:..AUSE). YO'u know wi.at t.":i'%
want? :. want ?_o kce the poor -:co_nle fool" ;-,) th(_y '37` Scarf: ra 1 wh,-..n
they send a note '.o .`EZ1 saylnq, hey, you have to pay fifty dO11ars more
d month, hit crw:::e], c,ei: T!:e heal oUt of her,-, (A-'.PLAuSi St.,--? And they
have no place to on. This is why these t. oeie, to ML', are life vampires
sucking the bloo of t.hP Victims, ric;lit there. (A1 : T AU1,1E) Si:e. T` Gref4Ze,
that's why they spy_ -:,,,-:!reds end hundreds of thou 3,-,nds of dol :ars to
fight something like this.
Mayor Ferre: Lower c..,.tr. Calm down.
:,Ir. Prieto:: That's all I have to say. Thank you very ranch. That's it,
lady. I think everbody has spoken now. I think we've heard from both sides.
I would imagine that there was one argument, in particular that I counted,
that was repeated sixteen times. So we've heard all the sides now.
Counsellor.
a27 APR 24 1930
Mr. Perez: Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Mr. Perez: Could I have a word, for the record. All property owners
within three hundred and seventy-five feet radius of the outside
boundaries were notified.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's not true. I object. I was not notified.
UNIDENTIFIED -PEAKER: Not true.
UNIDENTIFIED PEAKER: I was never notified.
Mayor Ferre: You have three people who have stated that they ... would
you please give your name to the Clerk and I'd like a verification
whether or not they were notified. And let them know too.
Mr. Perez: Very well.
Mayor Ferre: Well they say they weren't so they are entitled to that.
Those of you that said that were not notified give your name to the Clerk.
Mr. Perez: Only those who are within three hundred and seventy-five feet.
Mayor Ferre: You have to live within three hundred and seventy-five feet.
Mr. Perez: It is actually that red circle around the area of the
rezoning.
Mayor Ferre: You see that red circle? Okay. Now, counsellor, how much
time do you need to make your closing argument?
Mr. Traurig: (INAUDIBLE, COMMENT)
Mayor Ferre: You can have more than that. Those people have taken almost
an hour, your opponents. So take your time.
Mr. Traurig: Mr. Mayor and gentlemen, I don't want more than three
minutes....
(INAUDIBLE COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE)
Mayor Ferre: Yes. All right, wait, wait. Ladies and gentlemen, sit down.
All right, now. The lady warts, and I think it's an appropriate request,
okay? F o wo ao':'t have a riot here. Lets see if we keep ev .�rybodv happy.
Now, those of you, ghat live within that red lire, who are here as opponents,
only those who live ::ithin that red line, stand un, would you please? Those
who live within the affected area that are against. That are opposed to,
against. Okay. N3w down. Now, those of you, those are on your side,
Pat. They are or.ror.=_-e:ts. `low, those that are for who live within the red
marker, stand un_ (TRANSLATE•_D INTO SPANISH.
Mrs. Keller: I know where tney live, they do not live in the Civic Center
area.
Mayor Ferre: (SPOKFN IN SPANISH AND NOT TRANSLATED. Those of you who live.
Mrs. Keller- Thc•y do not live in the Civic Center area. I know these
people. You may rave few.
Mayor Ferre: Pat, T don't think you want to call them liars. No. Okay.
Do you wart to know I'm not impressed with either one of
those numbers. 5o don't worry about it, and I don't think anybody else
is so lets r7o on with th=: siow now. Okay? Now counsellor, make your
closing argument, lets go home.
Mr. Traurig: I think there are two or three things, maybe half a dozen
that have to be restressed. First of all, there is a subject that I didn't
even mention, and that is we have sought a road closure. It's been
J4$ APR 2 q- Q80
C �1_
Mr. Traurig (continued): to you by our Street Plannir:g and P,.at comr.:ittee,
and by the Zoning Board. And the purpose of that is so t:,at we can
consolidate the two sites. If you will notice that the street dead -ends
at the canal, it doesn't impact anybody uise's neighbor.,00d. ;7e don't
close off the ingress or egress of anybody else from public streets, and
we don't affect their access ways. I think it's important to talk about
what they talked al)out. They talked about projects, and
I want to distinguish them. And they talked
and I want `o distinguish them, when they talk abc.ut a pro-ect in
St. Louis ' ii:it failed, what the•v really sh?ll1u tc'i ; you i wa:, a
project foz large famili,_s in the kind of ^,..r,oto:.r not one h ::rise
building, ti. highrise community that had bad mana•= t nt. It hac all -
three of thc:._ negatives, had lar e _.:nilies, it h-d vt.r; sd
enviornmen:,: ,end it had terrible manage: -lent. As di ;t..ny iisr.ed frcm
what we propose, one huilaing, with a company that has exceilunt m,ana,.;ement;
that's involved i:i the cr,ation of four thousana units right now, has
never had a d'. f ault or ):':C1GS'.lr , uS a record o
and is prescntly in the process of b�lildinq similar f a,-il i `_es
Detrc,it, New Y;rk City, and in Yor. er6, and in _:' ir. :,ayone
New v'�rsE _' .: : 'Af f_". _' Say that Tfai _. ar,: nf. `S of slmllar
type bc.in,7 ;,wilt, I would call to vc'ir attentic,., in Newark, anc4 in far
Rockrwa.l, a::d In East Ora nqe, and In Chicago, and In Park Forrest, and
in Detrc�`, and in many .- corgi unities, similar kinds of projects.
Mr. Perez call: L: a—t,_nti.on that `.le failures ware public ':.ousinq
riv ate housing pro-ect witn tt:E 0,.. .^an,'cPmerit that's
being O Y .._r<. BLit_ th,'se are the ;?rC?E3�`_ i3t _ 1 _'n lOn xi, in
places like iiew %iorb., and Chicac;o, arGcl E.'trOit, ,.,ld >C-S 01:, ^.:i :'a11.SC:C'li..ti la,
etc., are rtLnq d��_iCOL'+33, are xideQ any .3I_ �tri. - .3C.:_ 0;<'d. What
we're jtiiltc- '_C n:AP_2 1 ' Iho_ ur.... %,;ith m,iny, ,..tiny, ...d-n<✓ � r_., to
j
create tnE, k:nrl of that zecau_-e 7a,:e along
with a,l of ;.i' t_ilE ii'_:? is or` C;,�i :ld_. :135 a V1.:, =u '15 :;at we have
to ha` (: ;,'.; 1 __ _3m111 ., 1:, t:...SE yU:1:..:$. And z'1Iar is Jr.._ t with our
objective czf cr.'uti. _ ;.Ol dl- t:..it Wi_i S r'✓-. t.'a ..ryC r,7�C T,_ui. centers
(.on't ..a`I .:.:<,L i:,ili bul. tney're
people 'n'::O arU .,inQlC L:e .)lu or pea',i,,� who .,av, small i.,,lit_:;, ^n talc
abou= the Aa.la_iatta1l decision, which we call tl-e GC).,ing Case, which is
famili-ar to ail of you, an com.)are ;t to this is L t an imnr.,,,er analogy.
This is R-3 to R-3 in an area wht2re a studv refl'-,cts .: to be proper
to have R-5, w; 1ch encoura es, which is Cons:istt nt ,�,ith Citv': oblective.
i:V last statTm,?:,t. Befort' _ s^oi; ', Lc"?:i/C�i, and S.it3 LOlQ
the (Jho-e .. _r' She no-_ nl" tole ',4':';', }lilt 5 ,. rici:`_Ctt'G 'n:",. JJ' hear
toni(:ht. .pit? - rGdlctL�a wh,:t: you'd heal' -from us an,-,S^E' i>rCC.1Ctt?d what
you'd hc;ar fror. our o1_positic:,. Our o-pposition has attac'`tod this project
for all the wrong reasons. We urge you to approve it for the right reason.
Thank you. (APPLAUSE)
Mayor Ferre: All right, questions from the Commission. If not, Mr. Reid...
are there any questions from the Commission?
Father Gibson: Yes, 1 want to.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Father Gibson.
Father Gibson: mid I hear you say, sir, and all of you that HUD has
approved this project?
!Rr. Traurig: Yes, HUD has approved this project at every level, sir.
Father Gibson: Well let me say, I am at a loss that if the project, sir,
you refcer rf!d tom, anc t:it: projects these two man referred to, were HUD
projects, and now you're coming up with this project and HUD is approving
it, I don't underst�And. And let me say this. You're talking to the
Vice -Chairman of th,-. ':'.:LU board.
Mrs. Keller: This dia not cottie before Miami -Dade County HUD Housing.
Father Gibson: NO, no. That's just the point I want to make. Because
if it went that way, I would say well, maybe they didn't know. But what
I'm trying to imply and infer, that HUD, when you dealt with the district
office in Jacksonville, which is where you hurl to really get yo�_r beginning,
f, /"%%
Father Gibson (continued): they have a network and they exchange
information. That's why I asked if HUD approved it. Now the second
thing is, I want you to turn the map around because I had a peculiar
reason for having that map put up. For my fellow Commissioners who have
not seen, and I presume J. L. Plummer ought to know every inch of that
ground because he's a native Miamian. 1 might excuse the Mayor,
partially, and Lacasa even more and Carolio even more than Lacasa.
Mr. Carollc,: I don't, rather. I sent my wife, she is a native Miamian.
She looker_' at it for me.
Father Fine, all right, beautiful. Then I'm on good ground.
What really ticks for me, and I want you all to explain to me, okay? That
land it literally contained in one piece. *leaning, that that water, -
what is that a canal, isn't that right?
Mrs. Keller: Wagner Creek. That's the beginning of t_,e `diami
River.
Father Gibson: All right, okay. It's the water. So it's like this. They
are building over here and thera's the creek over ... I just want to ask,
you know, I want to make s:.ra I understand right. The land is like in a
triangular shape, kind of shape. Isn't that right? It goes this way
like that. ?11 right. So thatthen on this side you have the thoroughfare.
(INAUDIBLE COI-LIIENT FROM THE AUDIENCE.)
Father Gibson: All right, please do. Because if I look at that map and that
greenry is there, I just saw it as late as today.
Mrs. Gec-,rcgine .4ahl: 'tr. I.Iel Adams :,as no such housing projects of this
nature herein Miami. It's an important point.
Father Gibson: My darling, I'm not worried about Mel Adams. If you had
told me ':el Adams, I would say ma- ,,be there is some validity. But I'm
saying to you knowing how HUD operates, the district office has all that
reference that they referred to, at it's disposal. And my brother, that
chain doesn't ever lose anyone of those links. I happen to know that, so
I just want to make sure everybody understands it. Now, I understand
that black...
(INAUDIBLE COI -VENT FROM THE AUDIENCE)
Father Gibson: Yes, that's the creek.
(INAUDIBLE CC'%..'.ENT FROM THE AUDIENCE)
Father Gibson.: ,11 right, so that seperates the land itself. That's what
I'm trying to say.
(INAUDIBLE COMMENT FROM THE AUDIENCE)
Father Gibson: The creek?
(INAUDIBLE. COMMEI,'iT FROM THE AUDIENCE)
Father Gibson: All right, now tell me about those...
Mrs. Keller: Tliev are amassing this land for the purposes of putting more
square footage in ..hz apartments, of course.
Father Gibson: What.izanpens; inn't the street the border overall?
(INAUDIBLE CO"MEN'T FRO." THE AUDIENCE PICKED UP IN MIDDLE OF STATEMENT)
....entire area. Someone living over in the Northwest corner has to walk
five acres around to get to work. •
1 J0
ist
APR 2 410480
C
Father Gibson: Well let me ask you this. I'm not arguing for them because
they have big time, well paid lawyers but it I'm going; to :Hake a
decision, I want to be intelligent. I don't want you to try to convey
to us that people are walking through there now because I was there today.
And I happen to know that it 's private property, you know, you just
don't go through there. Isn't that right?
Mrs. Wahl: Well, did you see the traffic jam on N.W. 17th Street? It's
unreal.
Father G-,bsc 1: I understand.
Mrs. Wahl: o desperately need the street opened. If I may just refre...
this same Commission ten years ago, closed off N.W. 15th Street to N.W. _
12th Avenue, when Bronstein built his :forth Cedars Building. Now the...
Mayor Ferre: It wasn't the same Commission. 1 wasn't on that 7rrini6sion
that did that.
Mrs. Wahl: Well I didn't sav the -ame the same Commission.
Now, the North Cedars Buildinq is going to house the, Metro Staticn. We
are in a complete bot_lt_ne * ihere .tias public bric?ge :;alit over N.W. 15th
Street that goes no w.are, and you're proposing three -fold, to commit
the same crin-( Ln this area. We r.eea streets cpe:i. we nct:.d mori streets,
we need _;al)l:c rights
-of The VA i; just Oenin, a new one hundred
and twent.-tL,r,.:e Jed hospital. :':here are -Lhe;e people going to go?
They have no place to qo, we have no place to park.
Mayor Ferre: All right, ladies and gentlemen, we've been on this now
for two and one half hours. I think we've exhausted the subject.
Mrs. Wahl: Does that answer all your questions?
Father Gibson: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: I would like to ask Mr. Reid, if he would please, to either
he or Dena Spillman, to summarize the administrations position and then
I would hope that this Commission will be ready to voice its opinion and
cast a vote.
X,r. Reid: Two comments in a 7uick summary. The key to a good project like
this is management and tenant selecticn so there is automatic success. But
this is nc,t Pruicc-igo , r_hir; is not ublic :sousing. It's a different
kind of :o-cc_. it's mainly one bedroom and two bedreor, and the
elderly ccu:;.. be accomodated in the pro sect. And of , ou: se, we don't
acree, w._:h _r, ornection that is mui_ r,etwccen i:icga .._r.sitl and crime.
Therc ::an be v:>r.! ..00d high CZC:i::itV projects 7.lat •!r' ^.Ot crim,, ridden.
The C!:?artmcn-: _`aVOrS this; project, We favor -.he aval'a'iliLv in the
City for a-::: e.: .:r._'-ndividuals in this income r.ar.;e, ar,d we feel that
the prcvi::i:-n cf .. >i lg it the Civic Center area, cic.-I-0 to work,
close to ntw transit station makes sense.
Mayor Ferre- All right, I would like to see what the will of this
Commission i:; at ti1i--, time.
Mr. Lacasa: Mr. Mayor,
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Mr. Lacasa: After having heard all of the statements, and I can see the
base for tha con--c-r:n in sorie of the neighbors, but we are touching on a
very critical �ubje:..t !;ere. .r_:r.ing the last two or three month-, this
City Commission has c; .._.l engaged in trying to solve a problem .,bleb has
a lot of bearing on wh,�.t we arc discussing tonig;it. And that is the
question c.;f the lack of re-,tal for low lncom-,. pconle in tho, City of
Miami. This lack of r;:nt:il u..it_ is the result or one, the conv,.rsion
of the existing rental units to condaniniams. rat a given time, we even
considered a moratorium on those conversions in order to save some of
i::t I01 Qf R 2 4 ,.7w
Mr. Lacasa (continued): the already existing units for low income people.
We were not successful in doing so because, unfortunately, it is
unconstitutional. The high rate of interest plus inflation has taken a
tremendous toll in the construction business in this City of _.iami, and
we are facing a critical situation as far as hou-sing is concerned. :specially,
for those who cannot afford to come out with a :o,T: pa,r,:.ent and face
afterwards a mortgage at sixteen or se:v(--,ntoen percf_ .t i nteresr_ rates, which
has taken literally, out of the condor•,;. ni_um and sir,c_ilcr 1,c, se Market, a.rost
all famine:= with twenty thousand dollars of income, i.er year or less.
In view o:: t-is , I feel that the l:it`/ olf v:iarii neea_ tlis ty,-)e (;i ��rojccts.
Granted, that it takes a toil in certain; neighhorhaods. iiut unfortunately,
the need fo_ shelter, which is a ;primary need of any human being, of any
families, in view, supercedeti the .;acrifico5 that „Gm, -:times wt2 Have to
make. So wn view of that, I move that tr:e City-or-,mis3ion rever_.-2 the
Zoning Board and approve this application as or�jinally presented. _
:layor Ferre: Is there a second?
Mr. Carollo: Second, Mr. Mayor. I don't feel that...
Mayor Ferre: Carollo seconded, go ahead Comriissioner Carollo.
Mr. Carollo: I don't feel '•..rt you can compare the housing failures or
success of France, ;rant Britian, Singapore or any other part of the
United State; Miami. I was brought up in the greater Chicago area,
and I wel-_ ri:iow it chat you can't compare the success or failure of
an apartment housing cornr.lex in Chicago to Miami. There's :no way. You
have a different situation here. t4c ;lave , trum^-r.:i,.ss, tremendous
sh:rtagea of low income housini, :csractaN,e inco.m :ocuain, in this
City, in this count.'. I know. just go cu-r a:::! tr • to rent an al)artment
or townhou:;e in Miami. It's almost impossi: le. If you have children,
forget it. It'z next to i.mpczo 3iblc— we iJ c aS man'% [%r'-)]ecti _6 we
can, right now. Not tomorrow. It's nice to limit apar•-parrco;nulexes
to two levels, three levels, or four levels, but I think we have t0 be
realistic and humane. Therfore, I second this motion and my vote will be
yes.
Mayor Ferre: All right, further discussion?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I'll give my discussion very briefly. As I sat
here this evening, I think most people on both sides, really missed the
point as it exists before this Commission this evening. This Commission
has no control over HUD and what they will do, and what they won't do,
and what they recommend, and what they don't. This Commission does not have
the concr_%1 over traffic. This Commission only has control, and this application
here before us this evening is a matter of zoning. And a c;>sir;g of the
streets. T',:at' the second item. This zoning is not .,;h,�tll.er it will be
children, ,ideri.•, handicapped, or what. I don't think that ti:ere is anyway
that this thing is --coked in to any one given segment of the community.
The nE:ed, which has been expressed, really doesn't have to be expressed.
All you r:av-.: tc is just look at the line cf some �i:cte,_ n thousand people
who are to recelvt:: low income housing. But I sr_.eak to the
zoning, whic:; : s ,-•;e only thing that is before us this evenir.g. The
zoni-ng to R.-5. And speaking for one, I see nothing wrong
with the change or zoning fri-�:- R-3 to R-5. The other,.itters that I feel
were brought ,ere t; S , evening, _'m sure will be brollO;r:t to other people's
attention, or I hope that 1:hLy will be, on those areas in which the delegation
of authority is not here, but with HUD and others. We are speaking to
zoning.
Mayor Ferre: All r'_ght, further discussion? If not, call the roll, please.
132 APR 2 1980
c
AN ORDINANC:•, i'::TITLED-
AN ORDINAlNCE ENTITLED A'IEUDING ORDINANCE. NO. 6871,
THE, COMPREHENSIVE: ZONING O:+DI*IP.:I: is OF THF. CITY OF
MIk,A! , BY CHANGING THE ZOf TNP ; C .15 `1'1'ICATION OF
LOTS 1, 2, 4, 47, 49 AND 49; 4 ; 13L.,.DDOCK
SUB NO. 4 (3-61) AND TLNTATIV_r, PLAT `iv. 1075 -
"VENAGO S U3" , BEING THE AREA :?0t 9': .:C`...7,d '3 T
17Ti? STREET, i9T:i 14Pi
AVL'NUL, WA'7;_ER C1�1:K -,';D NORTFW-EST 15TH I!F:N,:E, FROM
-3 iLOW DEA_ II'Y �:u:�.I:: si TG R-� (I: , I3 DESI iy
'4ULTIPLE) , AND 3x .-:AIK.ING TI-i:. N-1:CLSS ^.'=Y C' 1::' 1 S 1N THE
KING DIS:4IC'. : PP AJL P. RART OFSAID J?'.��.1 -CE
6a71 BY R'_ 'i . ":ICE A`. ..-S .:,IPTIG:. IN A- TICLE III,
_ CTIGN6 2 , TH-, IF-EOF; b' ._ ; ALItiG i ORDL.-,_NCF , CODE
SECTI(�!,S , OR PAi , S TEERE,3e 1N CONFLICT; AND CONTAINING -
A SEV1,RA3ILI,` CLAUSE
Was introduced by Comrissioner Armando Lacasa and sec•_+ndc:: -y
Commissioner Joo Carollo and passed on its first reading title by
the following vote:
AYES: Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Commission._ !:tev.) Theodore R. Gibson
;;ommissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
*Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None
The City Attorney read the ordinance into the public record and
announced that copies were available to the members of the City Commission
and to the public.
ON THE ROLL:
*Mavcr FEcrre: Before 1 vote, I would like to sav that I could, like
Pat Keller and my other political op .cnents say and have said, very
easily vote no at this time and not :Hake an issue out of it. It's already
passed. I could duck easi-ly. I'n not going to do that. I'ln goinq to
vote for this ar.a I'm .-o:ng to do it bk_,cause I belit've that this
Section `.TI=T., i:ollsinc. Pro c:;'t :.i ,iLr'oiut-e E'_s,,ntiai to tl"is G^:;Llunity.
For the _ ast tr.rtE' yc ars, h.i\;._ ma_,3 _ a30z.tL7. tL _-i, ;.G ti3_;Iii:,< , n
litersl' 1 be: gi:.g for Sectic;n V=I-. an.. h . rou .ir.un_ts `or this
comr,'cr. I'h h �u�_ng marks. thr r. ,.,..,1: _,�1 *a-�r.. _L _n this town is
in deea 11 : _ trd14'.^.tS. _ ; 3r;' = t.... ..{ Oi C: L: r 10C: t i'Dri `Or a
Section VI i 1' _ ,. , this nar•_icular of pro_�f_rry. I think T_.^.i,, particular
piece Of i.r',_ 15, .x'C,iU;;E ^: 1�' L".t', CC:.�1 ;''.:23t10;., i.-;Cdt1.Gn, and
many of attributes, is .-i . _. feet type of a rod e_-. r; ~Gi- this type
of a j�rU�^CL, r �:a to re.IIlln_. t::�' i�GOr1E.i:t t;,:iL _ _, tio., ',': iG very,
very, dit' _ ,._t :oi,c ; ubi _ hoa:,.i::g. SUC_N ., ..,I __ cw*r,e,, by a
Frivd`=e t L . ] !�_ „_. _ I'. govCrn;'icnt ;,ubsirly
differe.i': n LN?'iY.. _ a:.,-, co:iol .te'_y <<,'.i ".'.t ap fir' , -h to 'n1C w t(':at
housi:_;, you .'P'.'i the? privaLc _;to i.r-,v!l ,,ed. I':rt positive
that when _t's ..'ai. ^.d f2nished, that it will be well ai:,tai:,e'i and well
run. Ana I':.i su:-,_, will have very ditforent thoughts
about it. and t;. -.:arc, at this time, I vote in favor and along with, the
motion mad,.. (AP PLA'_- .',)
AT THIS PtROCUEDFD TO TAKE UP SECTION 5 OF THE ABOVE
Mayor Ferre: All right, we now have 1 (b) . Is there a motion on I (b) ?
Mr. Lacasa: I move: it.
Mayor Ferre: All right...
Mr. Carollo: Seconded.
Mayor Ferre: It's been moved and seconded, 1 1b). Call the roll on item
aP�
103 ;
f
Mayor Ferret 1 (b).
E`
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Lacasa, who
�moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-322
A RESOLUTION CLOSONG, VACATING, ABANDONING AND
0I3CONTINUING THE. PUBLIC USE OF THE ALLEYS BOL"ND BY
NORTHWEST 17TH STREET A:,J NORTHWEST 19TH STRFFT AND
NC ?THWEST 15TH AVENUF AND WA ;NE'.R CkFFK; "TCRTHW'EST
18' ' ROAD BETWL• EN 7HE.' SOUTE=<-C-41 LI%T OF NCRTHWEST
19TH STREET AND THE NCRTH LINE OF ;NORTHWEST
17T'l STREET; AS A PART Cc' THh CONDITICNS RCR
APPROVAL CF TLaTATI ,,E : LAT "i0. 1374 - '"IFNAGO SUB"
(Here followE Lr)dy cf resolution, omitted 'here and on file
in the Office of the City Clem).
Upon being seconded by Conni. sionQr Carol!-, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the followin;•vote:
AYES: rc'.-t.iss.oner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOESt None
134 APR 241IV80
41. DiSCL.:Sl0N AND Di:FiRRA.L:
rc`,. i'ERK4TSS13\ FOR .' ANN D Ai :A D:VP.L) XL1,T-1 43
AVLNUE-RESCREDULE THIS ITLY, TO BE i:i:�VU XAY 7, 19Q"G.
:!aycr r' _r :. :4e'ra now or, itern ._rce.ilE
record re'.ect on iterr. three, that ..Ince .r., wife
the sub-:ec,. property, i will rc:-use mVE;P1L
the VUtt', and I will sign the proper 3I:d ;Stir`/-
necessa-'y t recuse myself. And at time:, I will turf, over zhe gavel
and the cna:_inanship of the r-,ueting tc the vice-:•:ayor, Armando Lacasa.
All right. So, the meeting is in your na; ds.
Mr. Lacasa: Okay. Wu are now on item number three. An application
by Southeast Bank Trust Coiporation for a moiification of the requirements
in Section (4) (:i) of the City of Viami Charter, Chapr_e.7 10'E,7, ti
permit con, ,truction of a planned area development at 1v43 irickell Avenue;
with a proposed seven pc:rcar.c average side yard_. mr. Traurig.
Mr. Traurig: Yes, sir.
Mr. Lacasa: You are ;.o represent the opponents, right? Okay.
Mr. Auerlik2 erez: Mr. 'Dice -mayor, we will hear from the representative
from the Planning Department on this issue.
Mr. Ric'.iard W:lipplc: 1,1r. vic_- Iayor, members of the commissio.i, the
Planning Department recommt_rhea approval o both of the items that are
before you t_,ni,;h1L. One bc:_ng the s(�ttii-,g aside c�f t t.> building
requirement with res;:,ect to the rec,:,.t char -ter ,mendmm,nt having to do
with water:.ront proFertics, and we oaor1 _S oar tlCular approval on the
tact that -cuirrment wouw, ordinarily be MCL ExCu t for t.ic: plan
as s1LTii::teG W _ :l res.,,ccts anti preserves t.(i,-: axis ing Ill—'=Gr'_caily
significant mansion t,-.at exists on the property. ':he v_,w corridor,
if yru will-, Jn thy SluoS of the are s"ill with
�csoect to 'cite new structure I-,,Ang placed on th GrGj art'✓. however,
because of the maintaininq of tale mansion, a devlati:�r. is necessary
as set forth in Vour a;er.da. The si?,:GT:u for approval
has to do wltn t'ne planr.ed arLa G.. ,:G:'ie..')::':E.i.r ,-r '.WC ha.;dre: and
tairteen r1:53id,-:%tiai units, and :i llk'_'',vi r , f."_E.1 a5 i1id the review
on the majority of Che a, i�'Lic::tlon, ;:ecv, :x:menG approval o= the reylest
and thu deviations as submitted.
Mr. i•cirunerWnippie, ccaie back to the microphone. As I understand,
maybe we car. c tnrough some Gf _,li it' e. .,,y understanding that the
objection of re.''c.:c are ob-iectlons, in Wh,.t I ::av'? ai5:r read in the paper,
pertai;:'_nU _'1_' bottom i in.iE 1 think. i :"lave not seen tiny
other tv any other ;:latter reia`inc tG -.his. Therc: was
some ru;lrl�7 r'.;i:le Uf p-anner ':. t Ut:.,• s��i.:.'! .allowt:.1 t::C bay bottom
lands to bc: Ca:.':ulutcin _`1G'vr area ratio i.. Cltli: 1t`i. Would you
['Tease exoana i. L' �jVsltlOn In this mat.ter.
Mr. Wh.j,ple: 4ull rr,e exi�_Ai.n it in part, if i may Commissioner. The
question of the ;-)ay Lottor,, lend is a re5u1L of ;nqulr`! �!:,d review and
decisiori by taw t;.ar_ t.^. wc',rdinc., in thu zoning
ordinance as It oxlsts c-ol`ay do, permit of Lay bottom
land into t:1C C ii i ri" lOn ..t tci,, ". ln'_ arec'. 1,v wi.i;:h w determine floor
area ratio ? >t ,:(:verage, and t hinds ,)• tt,at ^.at ... -_ . T:,, rt� . ; a
reprusent.ativ.- ul, t.,,.: .wilding if you wart: to discuss that
point further. the Departr„�;nz- cic;Ers :'.ot have a position as
such. We recognize -_I;u decisio;: of the Buildincg Depar,,nent, the interpretation,
as such, and that's wi:�re we're at. we do not have a position to the pro
and cons.
Mr. Plummer: I understand. You're begging off on that. So then I'll ask
135
APR 2 4 2-J
_st
Mr. Plummer (continued): who is the representative of the Building
Department? If that representative, and I also wart the City Attorney's
Office to speak to it.
(INAUDIBLE: COMMENT FROM THE AUDIENCE)
Mr. Lacasa: I would like to finish with the staff presentation first, to
see exactly what it is we're racing now, and then I'll recognize...
Mr. Plummer: You're asking for a deferral?
Mr. Lacasa: She is asking for a deferral. But I would like to hear first
what we arc_ being faced with now. Commissioner Plummer has requested
somebody fr r, the Building Department. Please state your name for the
record.
Ms. Laura Butler: My name is Laura Butler, and I'm the Chief Zoning
Inspector in the Building Department. What exactly do you want me to
tell you?
Mr. Plummer: I guess really, Laura, to be truthful with you, all this
I've been reading in the paper that supposedly t^ls was a precedent
setting decision., if you can say `.hat. Tha-- it has never been a
decision that has been used h,7�.fr_-e and there seems some controversy
around it and I'm just a '.:any the Department's position.
Ms. Butler.. 'L11 first of all, the papers view of the case was
definitely one sided and inaccurate. Okay?
Mr. Plummer: It always is. That's why I'm asking your side.
Ms. Butler: All right. The ordinance was written in 1961. Since that
time, until_ 1976, the interpretation was that submerged land was included
in calculations of l.ot. area. I discusses this with previous Chief
Zoning Inspectors, '.',JU of them, ;Ji10 val.i(:ated thl" infc1 .:Stlon. In
1976, a new :'hi of oni,l.i. iins;=ector, i 11nder stand at t:.".c_ rc'(uf_ `3t of the
Strcet anCi Plat U:RIri'. ttct wllo was .naving proUlems tr.'inq Zo figure out
how tc. -)lat submi_r=,t_u land, said '.fall, I'll solvi: than. )roblem, we'...1
Just say We, C in use it. So hc: did. And during...I might add, during
the time that he as Chief Zoning Inspector, and his name is Frank
Williams, there were two cases in which he allowed or told people that
they could use submerged land.
Mr. Plummer: They could.
Ms. �ut:E_-': Could. I have letters. Okay? When he retired and I became
Chief Zon_.? ::.,;sector, I together with the Building Director reinstated
the interpretation which had always been in effect prior to 1976. So
you can see that the stories in the paper were not accurate.
Mr. Plummer: Okay Is this precedent setting?
Ms. Butler: I dcn't beiieve so. I have spoken with previous Chief
Zoning Inspectoc I talked with Robert i(orner, who was the Chief Zoning
Inspector he f,jrc- I -ame with the Building nepartnent. He gave me names
of other projects .-hlcr. :had oven per;1.A tted to use subn.err,Led land. I
haven't verifi;�d this. I haven't cone through records and researched
this to find out if wiiat. he says is true. I acct3pted what he told me.
Mr. Plummer: Bast.d on yol.r interpretation, how much of the submerged
land is allowed to be uses:
Ms. Butler: The crc'.i ; nt e does not address itself to t:-a-, amount of
sulunerged land. :t:e .lei inition is that the word land shall include
water surface and lane: u..dur water. We have restricted that to ownership
of submerged land. To 1an.d..land to submerged land within the bulkhead.
Mr. Plummer: Within the bulkhead.
,
136 APR 2411330
ist
me. Butler: Right.
Mr. Plummer: Then that's not submerged.
Ms. Butler: Sure it is.
Mr. Plummer: Within the bulkhead is submerged?
Ms. Butler: The bulkhead line established by Dade County...
Mr. Plummer: Oh, the bulkhead line.
Ms. Butler: :.ight, I'm sorry. The bulkhead line established by
Dade County, Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Oh, okay. So in other words, what you used in your
criteria is out to the bulkhead line.
Ms. Butler: Right.
Mr. Plummer: Okay.
Ms. Butler: That is a policy. That was just to try and place some
limitations.
Mr. P1u.TMmn;:r: All right, now. Clarify something for me. Under the
present State Statutes, does the upland owner, in fact, own the
property to the bulkhead line?
Ms. Butler: In some cases.
Mr. Plummer: Oh, in some...
Ms. Butler: I believe so.
Mr. Plummer: it was my understanding and I'm not trying to be argumentative...
Ais. Butler: I think you had better direct these questions to the Law
Department, when you're talking about what the State recognizes. I can
direct myself to the zoning ordinance and the interpretation of the zoning
ordinance.
Mr. Lacasa: Commissioner Plu.^imer, it is my understanding that it depends
on the pro erty. There are some property owners that own the uplands
and also t:-� submerged. There are others that do not.
,mr. plunmex: C�:•.ay. I'm assuming that this was sent to the Law Department
for a legal. interpretation.
Ms. Butler: have you seen copies oftine memos that are in the file?
Mr. Plummer: Truthfully, no.
Ms. Butler: No?
Mr. Plummer: But thz.t's why I'm going to ask the question of them.
Ms. Butler: Fino. Yes, it has.
Mr. Percy: Coar,issioner, the determination made by the Building Department
was submitted to t,. Law Departn%cnt for review and request for an
opinion as to the legality of that dctarmination. There calculations
and determinations wt-rc reviewe_i by our department we concluded
that based on the def .r,it ''c_ns in one Zoning CoC c there was a sound
legal basis to uphold a,:� supixort that conclusion. And we issued an
opinion the early part of this month to tie Building Dt;partr,ent to that
effect, a copy of which I have here.
I�$^
ist
037 �J
r
Mr. Plummer: I'm assuming that we ... could we ha,;-; an additional... thank you.
Mr. Lacasa: For the purpose of clarification in this particular case, the
applicants in this situation own the submerged land, according to the
deed. Am I correct, Mr. Trauric?
Mr.. Traurig: Yes, Mr. Lacasa. For the record, my name is Rohert H.
Traurig, 1-ICI Brickell Avenue. ,,That I have given to you for 'o fur end
d
of the table, and to Mr. Carclio who ha i now passeIt to r'azn, r Gibson,
are copies of two deeds fromthe trustee's of the Intern4i Improvement
Fund to prior ,)wners, who have subsequently :onveyca, . ,-;d ru-,w the
submerged la„ is also owned b;: the upland owner at t'r:E pre:scr.t ti:%.
So that in a:.: r to the question originally asked by fir. 1'l r, ,er, your
answer was cc.�r_ct, and that is ometim,�s you do and sometimes you don't
But in this the u-land owner purchased the subm,_-rged, the bay
bottom up to :he buiknead line•, and tnosa :heeds reflect the conveyances
from the State, of those sumbergec lands.
,Mir. Lacasa: ^'hank you very much. At this point, I am going to recognize
Janet Waldman:, for the purpose of explaining why she is rk. ,_, sting
from this Commission that this ite,-n be deferred.
Ms. Janet Waldman: Thank you, vx. rice -:+favor. For the record, my name
is Janet Waldman. :dy add. e 9C.1 Brick:! 11 Avenue. I have three
general grounds cr. ;} I am requesting deferral. The first ground
is that I teat t:,ere re new : i<zur+ s for 'the site area, and
thus al_. Cne Ca!7,i i tions that tnc r'iy., i l: d:lt .as not i.Y'LUe;,tc?d to any
official firm, the City, yet I rc-ce_ved a copy Ci thcr, by marki-,
phone r.,ills, i:c,niri_s a;:r' it;c ct,-r to .•:r. Trai.:rig's Office at
a quartex Lo f1'. ,. and `lc,r:i.`",g 'i tilt ac .. hires. So cjrcu.,1 on(E. ',,;culd say
that it':, a iitti 2 late to h,� new fig .Tres to the :,oarcl
lnspi.tE', of the tac. tat_ t .)st =i.g ;.. 71(_,y no,_ .r,ako thE2 application
any more the opponents and other
7eopie who ,ace .r,tcrc:.,tC_-, 1rc_} may G::i;J i:,:CtS or may not b: Opponents,
have thy: olpT:crz'.:,ity to view the accurate `igures With More time than
just iaty t.%,< aftcrncor, of t Q same ray. And I'll remind you, it's
not on the record. The second ground...
',r. Plum^ier: :dell wait a minute. Can we try to get this at the same
time by asking the proposer, are there going to be this evening
injected new figures?
Mr. Traurig: Let me reply this way. We discovered, just yesterday,
at least I was advised just yesterday that we have nine thousand square
feet more an..:i than we thought we had. The result is that all of our
figures at, c:rtc:r, in cur :savor, than we !,ad oreviousiy advised anybody.
Soy nr , and the
itiUtwli:i::etc:l':�:�..:' :.;:it the i;rb3Ti t7t.P_.1GDi,,eI'it RE:Vlc:'n'
Planning the Zoning hoard have recom=e r_`Oi to you _hat you
approve tr.e .i:gip:. Tc; , ion as initially Now t:ie way the notice
has been se:.t un.:, i, : the way the notice '.,as rec,n advertised is that
there is a PLD in aC:-,Ji';:.3RCe with certain plans. Ccnsei_uec.tly, t:.e specific
figures ..o << _leis .._.. a1 :n mak(.,s refcrence are rc a'. rot .i. ... in
tliesE C:t,ii};•_: i1_1')ns :,-s '=acv wc,ld be It you *nad at.verti:�C•1 artl�llldr
figures ','filch d'.^ ,w 1)l.rlj ch,,nij,ej. And Ci'rt:.;(.'iy, tnt.:,I-.C`Cr the figures
are Changed t:0 ta,i'- t:1'_'j air more, pc),;itiyt_ ." t.:.CY ;,_'.0 i,JrC ,ecQative, I
don't think an:: i'.:. sure you have to Consult wits Ci Attcrncy about this,
but I don't thi.:k ::,.at ,:a,;. d be an impediment to .four nearing and making
decision on this matte:-.
Mr. Plum. er: I taxe `.:hat .'.r. Traurig, as a thr_e minute yes.
Ms. Waldman: Witho-, responding to that tirst point, I'll go on to the
second point, but I can't conce'de to Mr. Traurig's opinion. Second
point is that the re_ ;- i b,--•roro you tonin?)t is incomplete. It's with
unprecedented speo'd i.;i 'C,r tX.,crier,::e that this has bee:: Drought from the
Zoning Etcard to the City, 'c.;:"mis :a on. TI-is matter was heard seventeen
days ago at the Zoning boar:. The transcript of the lengthy hearing
has not appeared in the record, - d as such, you do not have all. the
information available to you. Furtaer, there are other items that are
118
i pit
A''�pf� 2 4 1080
t
Ms. Waldman (continued): missing from the record, such as
the Department of Transportation report. The third item...
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute. The Deparment...
Mr. Fosmoen: We're getting Mr. Perez to respond.
Mr. Plummer: :sir. Perez would you respond , is that a correct
statement or an incorrect statement?
Mr. Fosmoen: Mr. Perez, the statement was that the records of the
Zoning ht;'ri: f have not been produced yet anc there is missing information
in your reco::;.; from the Department of Transi)ortation?
Ms. Waldman: That's correct.
,Mr. PErL:z: "•:ne minutes of that ... the hearing of that evening, April 7th,
have been produced. They have not bec., proof read at this .-oint. _
have col)ies of those minutes hare, which are preliminary ct.._ : not
being proof-read. Now, insofar as thc: Gepartrc _Lar,sportation's
letter, we not ai`.Vays get a rfis jonsE- : CGM L:1.' AI -.a 1 am,
reviewing th'' flies LO St?_' i. WQ �'.ave one. The :.Or::.ui rc,:t�:dure from
Metro DGTT is thz:t if thev .:avt• anyti.lnq tJ guy rcgardlr.g ::�
issue, they c:c n't .. .. � u:i anything. IL' S cnly when _nuy .avc ar `hing
to say t:,at t.i.., sE.ni a memo with :.he item wn::rever
;point c V nav,. Also, tnere has Avc.,, slime _,Grt U:: a }JI' '. i. ui 1... witnin
their systex.. They haci a ner�on, Carl Stov,r, r i:o r tired, coml:.i over
to tine depart,,ient and revi wing ana
the. f'-,It. .._ . Str ver ret iYod and nobociv :ias Ci:2n i; Fi_ :.n LC : _11 his
positi.Qn- Tley have given %Ir. StovvS's ]Vn to _:;mF n1Y::ad't
had 5olne otric,r--uties thero, and t.ne'✓ arm .navi;iq a narcl tir: kuc.;"ln j up
with our hearir.;s.
Mr. Plummer: I '.ake that as a three minute yes.
Mr. Perez: It is the way it is happening, Commissioner, it is not a guess.
Yx. Plummer: We'll get a simple yes or no maybe on the third try.
Mr. Traurig: May I supplement that and merely say to you that tl.is, in
my onir.icn, .is a legal hearin'. th.,t is not... the results of
which are not predicated on the r,_:�iults of tnu Zo=g uoard hearing, and
whet'-.,--- or .got the zoninc....the `._anstript o` tr.a 'Lo:; ni Hoard hearing
is in fr.:nt Ot ycu and r,-ari by you, WU i:: not !Jdr dccitii)n because
it's-jOil;.j basad on what's _Dr,.-,v::tt d ere today.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Traurig, that GIB an ui�i`���, basically a:, appeal
is only; to r:q :. At anything that was n_ :t brou?ht o,at at the lower level.
And there 1L ri.3 wda ti,at I think any Commi�,sio:,2r CAa compare as to what
in fact was brouc our... I'm not using that for arg;:mentive saki.
ir. Trauri,;: May ; ,ul._ to Commission's attention that this is
technically not an `KgUea3 , A car_- .i�1tomatic;ally cGCles to the Commission
under the teL_s of -.re o:di:;ance.
Mr. Perez: Let me _:-iat. this is not an appeal as "fir. Traurig said.
A PAD, a planned area rwe'. _,:..:,Zc:nt, is a conditional use which is heard
by the Zoninq Board as a recommending board to the City Commission.
Mr. Plummer: I stand corrected.
Ar. Lacasa: It is twenty, and we haven't finished yet. So please
make your third point A;,:a lcts gc on.
.'pis. Waldman: Ok : y . !'!I r,-sicnc' vary briefly to point two, and that is,
although it is not an appeal :jnd I a,::knowledge that, I think that a lot
of information was brought out at r:-.A. previous hearing, and that this
Commission is entitled to hay.� access to it and it has not had access.
Xy third point is that the notice itself is &.ficient anti there art.: two
reasons why it is deficient. the f:.rst oast, is one tl.at I raised at the
lower level, at the Zoning hoard itvcl, ana Lnat is that it fails to
H
i IP1,.
Ms. Waldman (continued): state the. �i�_viations from tin: R-5A z�:ning.
I have spent a number of hour s reviewing ti:•_, acjcn6a ' -_ st frcm : 0' ; ,
and I can state to you categorically, that in the R-5A zoning since
be beginning of 1976, never nas a notice for a PAD gore out without
stating each and every deviation from the -�-5A zor.;ng. ?'..d in the
one case that it was incorrect, it was sent back for renotice :,efore it
was heard. I would _suggest that there is som' ,u��st.:on as to whether
the cod- absolutely requires it. I believe t'nat a.t .does in w::ert>
it says, a ._hart statement of the nat,,:re Of variance ,.uesta.'., and short
statement of the nature of request for t`u condi t ior: l i_:, I ',JO:i' C
burden yt.�s, :t I will refer you to the, definition of variar:ct whichrefers not c:.iy to a strict varian,,e Dut al_,o devianc,s, or . um.;,atio ns.
I will also Late that it is my opinion that by virtue of t.e f,:ct for
the last .-)al •ears the board has taken upon itself tne ,iuty of
informing the 1 eopie wren it has notice, and maiied notice
of each and L yc;Y ;/ deviation, that it hci i C' rr6 ad,:ltlon to th_'
legal duty at has, an icldittOnal !,g3i -.uty Ulf natlilcatlon. I
will tell you that I have met peo,,=,.e w',,o have maid t.o me, I gut that
notice but it doesn't say that it's deviatioq and so there can't be
any way that it's deviating aria we're not worried abo'.Tt it. It'.-,
1nsuff`iciE.nt actual not1C0. t::t' s._.cG J point r6Qd: L:'.tj _"'.(' :10t1Ce
refers to a Inattur that 1J iS res )onci(:, to by ",r, c'_'_. _ -,he Zoning
Board hearir.y when I rai,:,_'d that: _.,.. and ', hu wa:: --hat the telephone
number is on the notice and t:'''"' -Ore, people w::c1 hi..uvu any -uestions
about It can call. Aral -':: _._r;t out to you from Se tion -25 of the
City Code, it r?'_ _ „ vi?r_✓ defl.,Ately, that the :':GtiCE: ` a,',-, "Call
and gives a _1 _,,,K 'or a ,,:1(-ne nu,-,Iber for i.nfcrmatior.. And 1 will point
O'1t to yoLi that )n n t?ith" r t'ne nctice `or the t'_c: ,t :Er' -it the
C1.tV COmT,153'.Gr: nor the not_ 7 t.h•_. Zon, ng `;Gur : '.J1:_. :'rr a phone
number L�lact`G an.^.J: er:-_ or . Gr'^ument. An'] with
the face that tli�,re w,_;:3 :,o notic•_ of the .::.3t th : people
don't re. ll}' 't:nL•dJ ::r'.v �.:�5 _S cjGiC'j ._J .fie the strict
zoning. CGa'i'ic3d '.Jit.l to Ct t'_'.it. !_.': rC 1tr_ Ceirt none nuP,Lc=r is
not llstoc" s.) _...ii'i _ -i�'. .. rlOn' _ ...:C�. '.J.';i'. ., to cv_ _ .if,d find Qi1C i.:i or:"iatlon.
This is a1 solu'tt _!_'! C.'Gftc--ive i.v; 1Cc_, that t::' ';U 11C :-.as 1J n not
informed of the _�f th c pr.�7�ct that's r.t re before ycu tonight.
I request res ectful.�v that you this hck for renotificatlon, and
deferral at this time, and I'll especially not the very '_ate hour, it
being after twelevu uefort_ it,�m was hc:ana or a long, long day.
Mr. Carollo: Armando, I icno4: that th'_.� is tt:e last item on thy' acrenda
but since there are some people: that dust like to hang around City Hall,
I'd li.<e to ilave a :how of rands to see how many people are left here
precisely for this item. How many are for? Okay, and against it?
Thank you.
Mr. Lacasa: 0,ay.
Mr. Plumrer: Mlav I ask the City Attorney's Office to respond to point
three?
Mr. Percy: Yes Comm.ssioner. The notice question was raised at the
Zoning Board iev�-1, and Ms. Waldman's contention is basically, the City's
Planning and Zoning F.dministration has met the legal notice as per our
code in t'� zoning -)rdirance.
Ms. Waldman: may i i:.tt2rrupt you for a moment?
Mr. Percy: Pleas,..
14s. Walr'.:,.an: I cid say t:iat at the last hearing but I reserved my
obj(-_,ction on tha'.. and I state today, categorically, that I do not
beleive that it moet: the legal requirements.
Mr. Plummer: You're ,-ititled' to that and you've already said it. Now
I'm asking the man th,.t I lay to advise me to advise me.
mr. Percy: And at :hat hearing, ir. "erez advised me and the Zoning Board
that the 'legal notice had been met. Fier contention was that the City
has customarily in the past, qone beyond what is legally required. And
she argued that the public had relied on the :.pecifics contained on this
type of application. And I c,uens we have to determine factually whether
or not that has been the practice qc beyond and above what I've
r
i
v
mr. Percy (conti,:ued) : called requix�d. And to t'r,: t • , znt of how they
would be harmed as a result of that.
Mr. Plummer: I realize that it's twelve twenty-four.
Mr. Lacasa: The problem is this, I don't have any dates. We have...
Mr. Plw:uner: She brought and quoted the code in reference to a phone.
Now that shouldn't...
Mr. Perez: May I address that point, Commissioner?
Mr. P1uir-.er: Please do, after he replies.
Mr. Percy: The legal requirement of the code has been met, Mr. Commissioner.
Mr. Lacasa: Okay, now. We have heard Ms. Waldman's request for a deferral,
three points that have been answered by different people in different
departments. Do I hear from this Commission any ;notion ir. retatioi, to
this deferral?
Mr. Carollo: Armando, I aculd !Aike. i Ieferrsi .:,y,,elf. . '.ased on the
information that I have here before -,re, and what I have heard so far,
I really cannot vote on thi _.eili<~er,tly. 1 would like to meet with
Ms. Butler when s''.e vrs-_..d have some spare time and be able to be given
some information. U, that 1 could have enough time to condense it before
I vote. So i would like to have the c3urtesy of deferral.
Mrs. Rose Gordon: Mr. Vine-::ayor, Rose ^,orlon formc;r Commissioner.
Mr. Lacasa: Rose, he has made a... just a minute. Are you making this in
a form of a motion?
Mr. Carollo: I'm making that in the form of a motion, that's correct.
Mr. Lacasa: Okay. Do you mind if I check if there is any second before
I hear you? We have a motion, is there a second? Do I hear a second
to this :'lotion?
Mr. Carollo: Let me say this, Armando. I think that every member of
this Commission, has in the past, been given the courtesy of being given
a deferral wh-n they've asked for it u::less it is an item of extreme
emergency. I don't see any extreme emergency here before me.
Mr. Lacasa: Commissioner, let me tell you this. '.iy postion here chairing
this meeting, is one of asking if t;-,er --Ls a„y zecond to your :notion. If
there is a seccncl. to your motion, we will call the roll. If there is
no second to yc.ir. motion, I cannot call the roll.
Mr. Carollo: j. are you listening to the motion that is going
on? Father
Mr. Plummer: There is no speaker in the men's room. I'm sorry. Is there
a motion on the floor?
Mr. Lacasa: There has been a motion made by Commissioner Carollo to defer
the item.
Mr. Plummer: Was there a reason given?
Mr. Carollo: Ycs, there was. Again I state, that with the information
that I have been gl•ien in this pocket item ... not a pocket item, the
paper work that I have been given by our staff, admir.�stration, and the
pro and con that t.as huen given before me, I honastly cannot make an
intelligent decision at t:is time. I would like to meet ^1s. Butler and
be given some answers ar,(i c:ao;.:,�: time to condense it so that I could
make an intelligent decision !;efcL,c: I vote on this matter.
Father Gibson: Let me ask. (INAUDIBLF)
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000'•..
Mr. Traurig: I heard you, rather, but 4 .,, riot really sure what t:;e
questions means when you say how far are we in the project. The...
Mr. Plummer: How much would a delay hurt you, is what he's asking.
Mr. Traurig: The purchasojr's of the property rave a contract which require
that ti'.cy close the transaction in approxi.:at,.ly t%%,o ;•__ris. If there
1S uefe ral frc,-1 this mectin(; a,1 them is Ci ic;7 mad,:,, v this'.
City C.Jmm_s..10:1, ::annot Gredict What. the OLt C; .':r i11at 'latter would
be. Uli . . . i.: dt is ,-[ie, lit mc; call on Mr. .S-.1ie?ldon Ros_. , o'.e of the
repre.sent.i:-ve.s, one of t.-c group that i:i purchasing t::e pro erty and
will b'.'11:. -'ni.s condom'1niuIIn. I'll aak i1in1
Mr. Sheluo;. 1':o (_n: For zhe recur- my name is Sheldon !�oz;cn. ' y
address i5 : :'azelton Av-enue, Toronto, Canada. I hoed that we '-.ave
not inadvertently created E. false impression. The contrac-,� w?iic;i we have
with the vendor:; is not a conditional contract. There is no aspect
to that contract which makes the rezoning of the property a condition
precedent on tr.t. c1csing of tiic: transaction.. And I wan+- '') maxe thaz
absolutely clear.
Mr. Pium'ner: Would you repeat t:'.at statement?
Mr. Rosen: Is I can _,.,e; ar it. There may have been the impression
that the closi-- date of the contract is in some way impinged by
whether ooard, Commission has in fact, ruled finally on it or not.
Our contract with the v._ndors for t.ha of the property is in no
way conditional upon zoning of the !and. The land was bought as was,
where was, at the time that it was 'coughs. So that our decision as to
whether to close the trsnsactio:i or not would be not in any way, shape
or form a part, i„fluenced by what happens here this evening.
Mr. Carollo: Sir, I r-r.ank you for you honesty.
Mr. Rosen: But I wouls )..ike :-._ry much to state the hardship that in fact
will be created, ,and tha- is that we have expended a tremendous time,
effort, and dollars In brin,7inU thl ; alo7':g c-xpuilitiously. And have
received at tvt_r level wit:,-,:: the. .nuni(--1_)u-ity what w(; consider to be
a courteous and efficient 1':ar.cl in<, of this ro�act to this level. The
sums or money involved, as you n-a =,lit ' m.3y 1' e , art vast and the interest
Clock tnat runs on this .rc)_ er`_v a;)Solutel' stayge--i-n- in teri':s
of normal level- Of fll di.'. -. oL ac i da% that ci icks ty, t.iis property
will become more, anc: ',:iru ult! 1C11-.t for ti-o to carry, and
we quite frankly z:iat th,+ -nfonnation...
Mr. Lacas-: _.%cuse me a moment, sir. I think :hat C,�r-:niasioner Carollo,
who i<; the :.......r of the motion to defer should !,car what you are saying
because act.al_ this pertains to t:"ie destiDn.
Mr. Rosen: i_. .. ... :ones 'muck I'll continue. I am not a lawyer by
train.11ii„ nut I k:'U d -'1st lime to point out that with the experience
that we've ':di".Gc P_C,, r^. <Ct to aLpearin�4 Ji:f^,r_ this Coman`c;sion and
others 1;..{l _t h'. d ��U : ...:t if wt: .:37c fair opportunity to
present i._ .-11 c- the r.ctn which Fe?"i.st,;, have been :e`urred to
as not Le; aoC a71u t". have. been absorbed in the tinie frame, will in -fact,
be presented a fai,. at :his pc-Lnt .:n time so that a clear vision of the
pro,),-!r' y wl. l c)u ';' Vo?-1 ; o v:)u ali dn'd I tlOUld sugc3eSt, t1:at Sliould
after t ;a,• fact_. ki:c,A:,,: ,7cl4 :;till feel the sam.c way, ~hat wry would
not ft--01 as b) iclly abou'.. the i;,Dtion being made becaust� we do have evidence
to give.
Mr. Carollo: ..,•. t :r.c: say this, sir. I've just been given a package here,
:lpproxirnately twee. y p,:ges. The subject is inclusion of subcrced in lot
area. There's no k%ar-o.ssihle t1:at I could read all this and condc::se
it intelligently at L.'.e sue time tonight. I don't think that you or
anybody else would want m,- tCA VOL,.-, without really being sure of what
I'm voting upon.
Mr. Rosen: That is absolutely correct.
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Mr. Carollo: I don't think it :.c. 11.3 be fair to ,-*u, to me, or ar,yone
else in the City. Am I correct, sir?
Mr. Rosen: I'm afraid that in the cont•-.xt thLt you're offering it, I'd
have to side with you, yes in the terms of . c phrase. But
I think that the in-:ormation that we !sv._ trn ii-- . t to you this eve , q,
will in fact, be sufficient for you to arrive at that conclusion, si-Iould
you believe the veracity of our statements.
Mr. Carollo: If you like, you can ;proceed giving an_, a,?r?, ti,:),,aI
information 'iut from the Point where I am standing ro:v, what 1 have seen,
what my que:;tions are, I don't. think they will be answerer: by you. I
feel that I'm going to need time to condense it ol,ce I read this, and
meet with _.s Butler.
Mr. Lacasa: :"Ir. Carollo, may I suggest this. We have here representatives..
Mr. Caroller Armando, what I can't understand is, I'm Just asking for
a simple deferral. This is not going to knock the project out, whatsoever.
What is ::he ;:,i, problem?
Mr. Lacasa: I dcn't have any prohler:;-r. Carob an3 I an, not arguing
with you, about an,7 prc::,lem, I am 7ur;L the Inee?til'.q, entertaining
your motion, and r,3-!uestl:<<� to procedure, a second to your
motion. I am not takin^ o ition one way .-jr th.2 other. I'm pimply
runnin7 the So 'you have ma,''Ie the mctlon, have st:ited
your rea_;r ns; aFK if t'ier� i_; a sec+.:?(--. t,) the Ncr the second
tLme, i ask if there is a second to the, motion?
b'.r. Plummer: Mr. `.'ice -:Savor, I don't ;:aow whethcer I'm doing it, yes,
I second the motion. I :Gr't know w1iethi'.r I'm dcinq 1t oat of the
fact that it's tweiv.-thir-y ;,n t`-,e :-:orr�n+r, or lon,, standing policy
of this Con',mi:; ion, 9: ;en c,,,e 1S*,.t'.j :Jr ad!Ilti":I731
1nformai :Ci;1, tI1C, i:ci=. A"^ '/ to me, and I Teel
obligated tt:at _:: *_ tame co'.irtc: y L5hou',l !Jt'_ GXtcn,-, d '--u Mr. Carollo. If
you were to ask .or J d_ r:'. tIa JL v`.i'.i3r 1L�SUfi, i !lc `.' ' aiwriys y_one along
with such. rir.C. .-.:an L:oe--n' `_ tee-,l tl%,ni I;e :-i ;ire,pareC, nor does he
feel ne will be -,rc'_pa.,:c'_d to vV,-e, 1 tf,irk ev,.ry Cc; io ;ter shcuid have
t::at oil ortuni.ty t:o in Tad;:, 2C:t wn.iL vi,r l;if:'rllat:.Ur he wants. So
I do second thy_ itl T ion. Now, in the motion, under
discussion, i:l ia:rr.(-'S:i to t1ie applicants, T feel tliat this rat~Cr.. .
what do we -avu ::r. Grimm —what do wt.� have sc'icdulec, for >'.ay the 7th?
Mr. Grimm: That's a Planning and Zoning.
Mr. Plum-r:;r: ?.11. right. So in other words, this matter can be heard
in ten days? i`wo weeks? Is that two weeks?
Mr. Grimm: Two w-oks from tonight.
Mr. Plummer: 1,0, It's an afternoon, hopefully. Three o'clock in the
afternoon, And -_had, I think, you know, it's not a month delay or
anything or t:.at nat.:ce.
Mr. Lacasa: .-ut ,7. L. Lets do thinrys in the Proper way. Lets
conduct Lhis in an adequate way with the righ� procedure.
Now we have a mo-.inn an" now we. '.-lave a second. Lets first decide on
the motion, and t.,e we'll entertain the reschedUl;ng of the hearing.
Mrs. Gordon: Mr, vice:-;,ayor, pr:.•cr to your vote ,ray I _.lease give you
sumo infor i.t.on .....:+: :.ay bu, _ierti!: .. tJ the' vot@ y u wc,uld cast or
Father GibSG:: wouir" ?S ? T: - infoT ia-,ion rl '
th.:t :•;s. bu _ e.r furnished
you which, was h-i ted :.carsay, was not veri_f ied by her. That is
a precedent sett.in• -.,r;r.ion. And that kind of an opilu.or. sho"•ald not be
done without t1ou:i.v ge,ro- . hfacts, and backedup and
given to you with date.:;, and times, and places and actions that
have been based upon...
Mr. Lacasa: Thank you very much. You must understand, that before
entering in the substance, if we have to of the tase, 1 would rather have
a question of precedence, which is the nat;.�r of t.r,e deferral. We have
AP3
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Mr. Lacasa (continued): a motion, we have a second. Yes, Mr. Traurig,
if it is on this issue.
Mr. Traurig: In order to assist you on this issue, I would like to make
a statement. Because., of the respect that we nave for each member of the
Commission, because we recognize that each per on wants to be as well
informed about every issue as possible hefr)re vo::ing, we ourselves,
would you to ,ieft-r this mai_ter pro�,idecG that itccmes back lip on
the a:ter:.00n of t:.c: 6th, and FL'Gvid,.�r] of cc,j .c. .. z.r:6 ?':.h, any:
provided of courses, that, well this isn't a condition ':.ut we would also
urge that y,-. a inquire from Ms. as to whether or not s:le then
waives any of these technical _:ef iciE ncie`; that She it'ner'41su claims
so that wc. c n get on with this and have a hearing before you on the
merits. h f r hearing w::t re each party pan be heard r.n the
merits. <. n't t: ink, it's nroner for. ':per not to waive any other
technical imps dimer.ts that she T^,a_' ::laim. Becau s<: 1i she .:oes claim
if she warts another notice DhTrasE : i:. f ferently, i tinink that_- hat
ought to be decided because I don't think when we cone back before you
in two wooks, tl"'::at that should again become an issue. So we would urge
you to make a decision as to whctner you neec ancifner n r' ana we
would ask her to agree t!iat th-i - Iii✓ticE is su.Lfii c'' an view of the
fact that as the...one of the leaders in Brick• avenue, Inc. she has
already communicated to all of the membersh.LD there the impact of this
meeting.
Mr. Carollo: I '_hink that's very fair, Mr. Traurig.
Mr. Lacasa: Thank you very much Mr. Traurig. Before we finish this,
Auerlio, I would like to have a decision as to the deferral, and then
will enter into the considerations of what will happen from here on.
There is a motion and there is a second. Please call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Carollo, who
moved its adoption:
:MOTION NO. 80-323
A MOTION DEFERRING CONSIDERATION OF A PERMIT FOR
CONSTRUCTION OF A P.A.D. AT 164" BRICKELL AVENUE WITH
A PROPOSED 7% AVERAGE SIDE YARD
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the motion was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
NOES: None
ABSTAINING: Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
Mr. Lacasa: This :.tem has been deferred. Now, for the question of when
do we hear this item next. Do I hear a motion?
Mr. Plummer: I move that this item be heard on May the 7th.
Mr. Carollo: Second.
Mr. Lacasa: Motion and a second, please call the roll,
ist
1,44
APR 4- wog
y
The following motion wu,, int4:jduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved
its adoption:
MOTION NO. 80-324
A MOTION DIRECTING THE CITY ADMTNISTRATION TO PLACE THE
MATTER OF THE CONSIDERATION OF A PERMIT FOR CONSTRUCTION
OF A P.A.D. AT 1643 BRICK!'.LL AVENUE WTTH A PROPOSED 7%
AVERAGE SIDE YARD, Oti THE AGENDA FOR MAY 7, 1980
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Carollo, the motion was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
NOES: None
ABSTAINING:
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
Mr. Lacasa: Now, this item has been deferred basically, because the
Commission, at least one of :a Commissioners felt that he need more
information. Questions have been raised as to technicalities, and I
don't want to Discuss the.T now, because actually, you have been made aware
of what t::c. questions that Mis. Waldman has raised are. Besides that,
Joe, I want to address the question of the legal opinion in relation to
the submerged land. From here to the 7th, but not on the 7th. I would
rather have it before the weekend of May 3rd and 4th, so the Commission
has time. We would like to have an opinion from the Legal Department
in writing...
Mr. Percy: Commissioner, there is an opinion in writing, right now.
Mr. Lacasa: If there is such, why hasn't it been submitted to this
Commission?
Mr. Percy: It's in your packet, Commissioner. Yes, I'm told it's in
the Fackage.
Mr. Gordon: Mr. Vice -Mayor, may I ask you a favor?
Mr. Lacasa: Yes, Rose. Always willing to give a favor.
Mrs. Gordon: Thank you. Would you ask the Building Department to furnish
you with writ -ten information as to prior applications that had been
approved countir:. submerged land into the floor area ratio, or lot coverage,
or whatever? Tha- •oui�l tnen remove the cloud of doubt that lies in the
mind of a great r:umber of people. I'm not here to say that this project
shouldn't be cu: "n simply saying that this project should not
set a precedent. that may destroy all of our waterfront areas.
Mr. Lacar.a: Ine .,_yes uon, Rose, here is an opinion from the Legal Department
is actually in w:-.tt I am interested in, as to whether or not it's legal
for the Commission to consider the submerged land in order to make this
computation. Whet.;;er or not...
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, we have that legal opinion.
Mr. Lacasa: We have that legal opinion?
Mr. Plummer: Yes. Does anybody want a copy of it?
Mrs. Gordon: The legal opinion is based upon the interpretation that's
in the general wordage of the ordinances which say that submerged land
shall be counted...submergcd...water shall be counted as land or something.
But that isn't the point I'm trying to make. I'm trying to make a
different point.
145
ist APR 24 1980
Mr. Lacasa: The point you're trying to make is the precedent.
Mrs. Gordon: I'm trying to make a different point. Please get the
background information that led the ijuilding D•cpartment to change their
opinion because you control that computation anyway, regardless of
what it says in the ordinance when you grant any 'Kinds of variances
or device_icns from the norms. You can control anything you want regardless
of anything else.
Mr. Lacasa: Let me tell you, nose, and For the record, and I make no
bones about it. That about the precedent concerns, I am not concerned,
because t:-) r_.e a precedent, there has tc be a first. case. So whether
or not, wc'il •:ake that decision on this particuaar, it's not an issue
at this part,ciiar point. What I am interested in is in the question
of the Legal ::u,jartment opinion. Having that as part of the package,
it will be a :natter of consideration for the Commission whether or not
it will be in the i.Dest interest of the City of .,iami to even create
a precedent, if such were the situation.
mrs. Gordon: Of course that will .7ome up at the hc.arinq.
Ms. Waldman: . First of all, I would ii.ke to request that this
Commission take, I don't know, c.t 1, rhaps an unprecedented step and
schedule two items for a(jenda so that they can be heard separately.
One would he ':h_ _ -,,i;e of the submerged lard, and then a s�L ar to
issue of t'_,_ 1,ro;•osed prmect. I think t'r.ev azu...a t'incugh the submerged
land affects :11 protect, it i iaad_-'ti01":.1l:y .i 3CC a2"ate: l ;sue tnat
would affect cvcr,- o':.her applicant that is api l,yi ng for waterfront
property, and 1 think it needs to Le discussed without -:he emcticnalism
of a particular >rop,)sai that may or may not be valua lr_ ,n:l rood
in certain resr_cts. And I thiix we should have a hearing on the
issue of the l,yr.d separa:c'_y, and prior to any application that
wou' d deal with -hat.
Mr. Lacasa: :hank you very much, Ims. Waldman. This suggestion obviously
might create a precedent also in the City. At this particular time,
I don't f_,e1 ti-.at. there is a need for that, howc-ver, if you care to
submit a rem,,_Iest in writing to the Commission, I will gladly send it to
the Zoning Deportment and to the Legal Department for their opinion on this.
Ms. Waldman: -�xay. And may I also, for the recora, respond to 2dr. Traurig
in stating thy:,_ _ do not w . any 3bjection:s to the notice, to the
imprcp,.>r nctice or anything elsu-. Ee has st �teu t::at i.e f : e i 5'.ire
that I nave nad vmple opportunity to contact all of the members of
Save Bri,k.cll ;.venue. It is not t:.e o0 of any citiz:_n, or any citizens
group to tlU C. notification that is require•! lby ti,e City, and c�_.rtainly
there are a of people i:n the area that are affected gnat are not
members of Save ',.-1cke1i Avenue. We ne:er ,,rtendcd to lje an exclusive
and all inclu=:ive .oicanizaticn. And I t::ink notice does need to
be sent. I tn�L.:, to two weeks tiiere is 3ufticient time...
Mr. Lacasa. I' -n? yc : .,.ry nuch. I Nave asked tho Depart neat to take
care of al ti,e n:;icalatiec:...,Io you want to sa_, cm thing, Father?
Father Gibson: I b:-knt to ask a question. Are many of the F.eople
affected here n_--w? Roi.,e your ::and? Lets see. One, two,three.....
thirteen. Wait, wait. YDu're going to make me out a prophet.
Mr. Plummer: Affect(d 1-.cw?
Father Gibson: I --'an't care how they are affected. The fact remains
that this is the nu.,-xc,r that you now have. I just want to pick upon
your objection to v..3_ Mr. Tr�nirig said. Now, if thirteen people are
here tonight with al notic(, '._hat you've sc:,t out. I want
you to know how I'm re-,sonir.g, I'm no:: a lawyer. If thirteen people
are nere tonight ,; i th all not . ,os that you sent o, t , if you had
the hearing, the thirteen l:cop7 wcul�l �,3xc, got the massage. Isn't
that true? Oh, y,as. No doubt ?bo._f that. All ri,ht. So it stands to
reason, if we want to be cooperative, and I'm ::ot for him, nor for you,
I just want to get on with the business of thy: City. The same. thirteen
6 1
Father Gibson (continued): people know n:;w that we're going to hear
it on the 7th. Okay? And if thirteen people are back here, we're in
the same ball game, and there may be more than thirteen. Do you follow?
All I'm trying to say is, I like to see citizens bu reasonable. And
knowing the people in this area as I do, man, all of them will know
tonight, this morning even though it's ten minutes to one, that we're going
to have that meeting on the 7th. Do you know what I mean?
Ms. Waldman: I wish I had an access to that communication.
Father Gibson: I know. It's easy for you to tell....iook, when. I don't
want to tango it's easy for me not to ask. But wi:cn 1 want to ango,
I ask like :ell. You get the message? I think that if you want to be
cooperati:le you know, just l4ke 1 wash you '-,An--;,_c a w.zsh orb `-.and. tiOw
I would t-^ink that /(:,u ought to Say to th,' people, we're rJ )ln cj to ;;a'✓e
the meeting on tnc 7tn . :pow yr,,i hav�_ tc,,_i ly and
I run a church, don't foi-Set that. And 1t i want that nessa3e dot out,
I tell certdir, me:rnurs of tnat cor,3raga ia: ar. wa}c., ..nd see t ; t
crowd there fc.r that f.in"ral or for that service. ..c ,.ou know what I
mean? You kncw I under.sand the rule cf the game nvw. T i'J'11d UCH
you, lets cooperate. And let me make the final..
Mr. Plummer: That doens't apply to me. My people don't hear. (LAUGHTER)
Father Gibson: But t} c wl,o hear bring them to you, my brother. Listen
to this, you k:Ic,w...
Mr. Plummer: You're right.
Father Gibson: i am very disturbed about time on today's market. Thirty
days in the market today can be a catastrophy to a man or to a woman.
Don't let us forget it. We didn'c creat the possible catastrophy. So
lets cooperate. Can you promisc me that:?
Ms. S9aldmgn: I'm trying to cooperate. I'm just also trying to see that
all the citiz,_s for whom this City publishes notice, and mails notice
have the benefit of an adequate notice, that's all I'm saying.
Father Gibson: My darling, knowing you as I do, every dog gone one
of them will 'know tomorrow.
Mr. Lacasa: Mr. Perez, could you elaborate on this question of the notice?
Mr. Perez: Yes, Commissioner, Vice -Mayor, the City Code has specific
wordin�3 for the required notice to be...the City Code has specific
wordin<,' fc:r the notice to be posted on the property, and the advertisement
in the p3i;C'.T'. 'nd those two have the phone number. :-ow, the Coco
addresses a:._>c to a courtesy notice, not requirea by law, which the
departs slig:-.^. , from the other two, the sign and the notice in the paper.
That one :oesn't .nave the phone number and it is not rep:uired by law.
There i5 no of any noticing requirements and as we have
been doing 1:: ti:t: past years, we are going to continue publiFhing the
same notice.
Mr. Plummer: I wc:nt you to know I'm going to sleep a hell of a lot
better tonight because you told me that. (I.NUGHTER)
Mr. Lacasa: Mr. Perez, is there anything else?
Father Gibson: Lets make sur triAt both parties understand now. We're
leaving you wic:1 t'..: rr.df rsr-:,i,d'..,3 that on the 7th this matter is
going to be hea_,i _,nd you ex:;a::t a decisio;:. U-.d I hope you would not
compound the by s legal-t.chnicality in court, you know. So
well you know, yo•. '?i..r;'r. fnll.nw do you know what I mean?
Because I would be vu_: u ; spi,o_ r.r-: d. And I hol;c that if h_e _gut that
notice out there with tc lc-fj r,::e number:, saying it's going to be heard
here on t,e 7ta, that everyiody wouldn't come in and say, well I didn't
receive my notice in the maii. Do you understand what I mean?
Ms. Waldman: (INAUDIBLE. COMIMENT.)
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147
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Father Gibson: Okay my dear, I'm going to depend on you.
Father Gibs(..n: Let me bring up a matter, Mr. Vice -Mayor.
Mr. Lacasa: Yes, Father Gibson.
Father Gibson: Earlier we talked ... can we go back to this thing. Earlier
we were talking about an appointment to the Zoning Boar(?. `he alternate.
I thought ....I did not know the Mayor was not 71cit,r) to be here. Is it
within, is it reasonable to assume we could this up tomorrow? So
that, is that, can we, Mr. City Atcorney, cur, we take up that matter
tomorrow since the savor is r:,_,t nere?
Mr. Alvarez: ',ayor will need i.o call some kind of a meeting to address
that issue.. _t is not on the regular agenda but... is tomorrow a regularly
scheduled mcet.ing, Vince?
Mr. Grimm: No, sir. It's a worshop, but of course, the Mayor could
call a special meeting while you are in session, but I do want to remind
you that the Commissions formal action was to defer that until the second
meeting in may.
Father Gibson: I happen to be one of the guys who voted for it. Since
we are pre entry in a meeting, I could call the question, and I could do it
even thoujh the Mayor isn't here. Now, I want to be polite. You tell
me how I may be polite.
Mr. Alvarez: Well sir, tomorrow, unless the Mayor brings the issue up
tomorrow, I guess we'll have to wait until the other meeting unless the
dice-Ma,.,nr wants to entertain it now subject to a motion for reconsideration,
of course.
Mr. Grimm: There will be items on your agenda tomorrow that the Commission
directed us to bring back, which will require you to go into formal session.
So I nresume, Father...
Mr. Carollo: Btr,: the five day rule could be invoked, correct?
Mr. Grimm: You could invoke any rule you chose.
Mr. Plummer: No, the five day rule would not be invoked here. The material...
Mr. Carollo: Not i:ere, but tomorrow but the next meeting it was brought up.
Mr. Plummer: Txcusr-.,hc. The J- ve day rule, really Mr. Carollo, addresses
itself to material tiat was not in our hands five days prior to the meeting.
The material has, in :act, been, in our hands five days prior to the
meeting. So I don't sec: where the invoking of the rule would apply here because
we have had the mat_rial.
Mr. Carollo: Well, do::sn' the five day rule specify not necessarily in
the hand, but that it has to be on the agenda. Isn't that correct?
Mr. Plummer: Well, I thought...I was an expert on the invoking of the rule.
Father Gibson: I just want to serve notice, Mr. City Attorney, I want to
serve notice, if you aren't going to let mu bring it up tomorrow, if it isn't
legal to bring it up tomorrow, I'll bring it up right now, and I don't want to
148
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Father Gibson (continued): do that to my man. Because he isn't here.
Mr. Plummer: There's an easier way, Father.
Father Gibson: Okay.
yr. P1uminer: You just don't adjourn this meeting tonight, tomorrow's
meeting becomes a continuation of this meeting.
Father Gibsc.i: I'll do that. I'll go for that.
yr. Alvarez: Then you need to conclude the zoning part of the meeting, - _.
reopen the r..;iiar Commission meeting and continue it until tomorrow. That
will take a motion.
;'.r. Lacasa: Okay, we'll do it that way. yr. Perez, lets see if we have
anything left on the zoning agenda.
_ 1
:00 SLIP
0
GRGVT7 T_SL
Yr. Perez: At the Cor,-.mission meeting of March loth, you ,asSE.0 :3 :no'-Ior.
approving the marina at Fair Islc. We need a resolu`_ior, number for that.
,%:r. Lacasa: 'o"ho will give us the number. Do you give us the number?
Mr. Perez: It'- fomalizilng the motion. iio, no. just go ahead and formalize
this by resolution and then the City Clerk will...
Yr. Lacasa: will give you the number. Okay. Do I hear a motion to
formalize this?
Mr. Plummer: I'm sorry, but I would like to know, what item was this?
Mr. Perez: It was the item of the ninety slip marina in Grove Isle.
Mr. Plummer: Of what?
Mr. Perez: Ninety slip marina at Grove Isle.
Mr. Plummer: Oh. It was not given a resolution number. Well that's the
failure of the Clark. Is that correct?
Mr. Percy: (INALDIBLF CO.NiMEVT)
Mr. Plummer: So what do we do to correct it?
Mr. Lacasa: We pass a notion. Anyone move it? Do I hear a motion?
Father Gibson: I move it since it is a matter of technicality.
C'mon I move it man.
Mr. Lacasa: There is a motion ::y Father Gibson. Do I hear a second?
For the second time, do I hear a second?
Father Gibson: Well hew do they ,et a number?
Mr. Lacasa: We have to pass a resolution. You made a motion, there is
no second. For the third time, is there a second. Hearing no second,
it dies for lack of a second.
Ist
AP
R 1980
��9
Mr. Perez: You cannot do that. Wait a minute. Let the City Clerk
clarify that for you.
Mr. Plummer: I second the motion.
Mr. Lacasa: There is a motion and a second. Please call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Gibson, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 80-325
A RESOLUTION GRANTING A CONDITIONAL USE AS LISTED
i:+ ORDINANCE NO. 6871, ARTICLF: IV, SECTION 23 (2)
(b), PERMOT A 90-SLIP MARINA (GROVE ISLE MARINA)
ON TRACT ".A" FAIR ISLE REV. (34-70) BEING GROVE
ISLE, AS PER PLAN ON FILE, WI.'H DOCYS F,XTF.NDING 165'
INTO BISCAYN-E BAY; ZONED R-5 (HIGH ^DENSITY MULTIPLE)
SUBJECT TO "-0LLOWING =-,DITIONS: 1. THE ECT'Kn OF
OPERATION OF MOTOR BOATS SHALL BE: Ri S^= iG,.": ; ',`0
7:00 A.M. TO 12 :00 MIDNIGHT AND IN :..'" :;FD WITH THE
CITY'S NOISE ORDINANCE; 2. ALL L:":::iIN(-, FIXTURES ON THE
MARINA SHALL BE PC I'; :''.:D AWAY F ROh' TH?' 3.
COMPLIANCE ivT^.; Ai•.'LICABLF FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY,
AND CTiY rtEQUIREMENTS
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk).
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the resolution was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner (Rev.) Theodore R. Gibson
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Vice -Mayor Armando Lacasa
NOES: None
ABSENT: Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
WHEREUPON the City Commission recessed at
1 A.M. and reconvened the following day
at 1:00 P.M.
ATTEST: RALPH G. ONGIE
City Clerk
MATTY HIRAI
Assistant City Clerk
MAURICE A. FERRE
Mayor
ist
150
APR 2 41980