HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1984-01-05 MinutesCITY OF MIAMI
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C0M11RlSS10N
MINUTES
OF MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 5, 1984
(SPECIAL)
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
CITY HALL
RALPH G.. ONGIE
CITY CLERK
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TEM NO.
(SPECIAL) �+&M JANUARY 5, 1984
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PAGE NO#
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DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED RFP`S FOR WATSON ISLAND
M-84-1
1-21
2
ESTABLISH SPECIAL MEETING FOR JANUARY
M-84-2
21
3
DISCUSSION: SCHOOL CROSSING GUARDS.
AUTHORIZE ALLOCATION OF $60,000 F.R.S.F.
M-84-3
22-26
4
POLICE AND CLEANUP ARRANGEMENTS FOR A PARADE TO BE HELD
OF THE MIAMI HURRICANES
M-84-4
27-28
5
6
7
JANUARY 12TH IN HONOR
DECLARE WEEK OF JANUARY 9 - 15 MIAMI HURRICANES NUMBER ONE
WEEK. M-84-5
DIRECT CITY MANAGER TO RESEARCH A STREET, PLAZA OR PARK
TO BE NAMED IN HONOR OF COACH HOWARD SCHELLENBERGER. M-84-6
INSTRUCT CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE RESOLUTION OF CONDOLENCES
IN CONNECTION WITH DEATH OF POLICE OFFICER ROBERT ZORE. M-84-7
DISCUSSION F.R.S.F. - FY 1983-1984 PUBLIC HEARING:
REPRESENTATION FROM SOCIAL SERVICES AGENCIES. INTENT
OF PRIORITIES OF AVAILABLE FUNDS. M-84-8
M-84-9
M-84-10
9 DISCUSSION OF MARCH 13TH BOND ISSUE i M-84-11
28-29
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30-91
91-95
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
* * * * * * * * * *
On the 5th day of January, 1984, the City Commissin of Miami,
Florida met at its regular meeting place in said City in Special
Session to consider business of public impert, namely, Federal
Revenue Sharing and Watson Island.
The meeting was called to order at 10:10 A.M. by Mayor Ferre with
the following members of the Commission found to be present:
Commissioner Miller J.-Dawkins
Commissioner Joe Carollo *
Commissioner J. L. Plummer Jr.
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
*entered at 10:48 A.M.
ALSO PRESENT:
Howard V. Gary, City Manager
Jose R. Garcia -Pedrosa, City Attorney
Ralph G. Ongie, City Clerk
Matty Hirai, Assistant City Clerk
An invocation was delivered by Mayor Ferre, who then led those
present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag.
1. DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED RFP'S FOR WATSON ISLAND.
Mayor Ferre: Good morning, Ladies and Gentlemen. This is a Special City
of Miami Commission Meeting. The main purpose of the meeting is to com-
ply with the law and this is a Public Hearing on the proposed development
plan of Watson Island. Secondly, once we have concluded the Watson Island
portion, we will be discussing the allocation of Federal Revenue Sharing
Funds for social services for the program and what is remaining of the
fiscal year 1983-184. At this time I will recognize the City Manager to
begin the proceedings by making a presentation of what he is recommending.
I think procedurally, unless the rest of you wish to do it differently, I
think we ought to let the Manager make a full presentation without inter-
ruptions and we will write down whatever questions we have, and then after
he finishes, the City Commission will get into a question and answer period
with the Manager, regarding the specifics. Subsequent to that, I will
recognize speakers from the public to express their position on Watson Is-
land, or what is being proposed, or recommendations for improvements or
whatever, and then lastly, we will get then into City Commission expressed
opinions and hopefully either a vote to proceed, or a vote not to proceed
or an extension. I think that covers the full gamut.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I have no problem with your outline. I do have
a problem, and I want to put it on the record, that this draft, which was
presented to us just this morning, about five minutes ago, is a major
difference between that which was a draft presented to me in accordance
with law a week ago and I have to say to you, that there are major differ-
ences in the two drafts. I don't know whether it would be proper procedure
to proceed with the presentation, or give the Commission the opportunity
Id 01 JAN 51984
to study the new draft, or cover it at the presentation, because there
are some major, major changes in the two drafts.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Manager, do you want to say something?
Mr. Gary: Mr. Mayor, I would like to cover those changes in my presen-
tation and for the record, I would like to explain that some of them
were scrivener's errors and changes. The others were basically clarify-
ing points to make sure that not only the City Commission, but the
developers who will be bidding on the process clearly understand what
the intent of the City Commission would be.
Mr. Plummer: Well, I take exception with that.
Mr. Dawkins: Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Ferre: All right, go ahead.
Mr. Plummer: The reason I take exception - I don't think it is a
scrivener's error when you go from a proposed development of 40 acres
to 68 acres. That is not a scrivener's error. Now, I am not saying,
Mr. Gary, that I disagree with the new proposal, but I am saying that
there are major changes.
Mayor Ferre: I think that is valid. I agree with that.
Mr. Dawkins: I also have to say that I am not prepared, and don't intend
to discuss this, because you can see, I have gone through here, and areas
of concern, I have marked them. I just got this. I have not had a chance
to compare this with this. I have not had time to compare this with this,
and I am not prepared - as you said, I am very disturbed that you would go
from 35 to 68 acres! I told you from the beginning I am against develop-
ing Watson Island, and now you go from 35 to 68, which means you have
taken up the whole island!
Mayor Ferre: Okay, Commissioner Perez, and then I want to say something.
Mr. Perez: Also, Mayor, about the five member committee that the Mayor
was supposed to recommend five days in advance - the Manager didn't send
any information. I think that we are not prepared...
Mayor Ferre: I think you are all correct, and Mr. Manager, I would
recommend, if my colleagues would accept this, to afford you the oppor-
tunity to turn this into a work session and continue the public hearing,
because I don't think that we are at a point, where we are ready to
come to a conclusion on this, and I would recommend, however, since we
do have people that are interested, that we allow the Manager to make
his presentation as a work committee and make it a workshop and then
we will decide when to continue this public hearing, which I think under
the law, we are allowed to do. But, let's hear what the Manager has to
say and why he is recommending these things, and let the public reflect
its opinion, and then we will get into the public hearing section of it
at some other time and we will conclude it at some other time.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, I will accept that.
Mr. Plummer: I have no problem with that.
Mr. Dawkins: I accept that - the only problem I have with that is, just
like with the Bayside Project, I will say it now - I said it then, and
I will say it again. We rushed into our RFP's. We had to accept what
the evaluation committee recommended, which I had no problems with, but
I did not have any input as I wanted to have, and now I plan to have
input here.
Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, let me give, if I can, a little bit of
relief to my colleague. Mr. Dawkins, I agree with you, we did rush into
the matter. I think it was the best interest of this City to get the
time frame running, but I want you to know that I share your concerns
and get even day, if that's what it may be, will be when Mr. Gary brings
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6
back the proposal to this Commission for final approval.
Mayor Ferre: That's right.
Mr. Plummer: And if your problems are not resolved, and my problems
are not resolved, and one other member of this Commission's problems
are not resolved, Mr. Gary, I think, knows the consequence that he
has got to deal with that accordingly. Likewise, with Watson Island.
I don't think we can sit here if we sit here for six months and put
out what would be considered a perfect proposal, okay? But, the get
even day is the day that you make or don't make the final decision
on any proposal?
Mayor Ferre: All right, sir, based on that, now, we will now proceed.
Mr. Manager?
Mr Gary: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would like to first say - I'd like
to give a half apology in terms of getting this back to you late, but
secondly, I'd like to say that when we decided in Decemmber to do
this, we decided to have a Special Meeting and get the process going
so we would have enough time to get the proposals in, and therefore,
our time was a little short. Let me just first of all say that the
philosophy that I and the Administration have is that we have a
valuable piece of land located in a very strategic location, which could
assist in furthering the progressive development in downtown Miami. That
land now is barren and it is under utilized. I would like to also say
that the opportunity for developing that land is enhanced in my estima-
tion, in terms of not only what we have done in Bayside, but also in
Brickell in downtown, but also in terms of the plans that we have for
the Park West Overtown, and I think this will begin to bridge the gap
between the Omni North area, all the way down to the Brickell area.
The proposal that you have before you, the reason that you have an
additional one now is because we learned quite a bit in the last process
that we went through and we are trying to refine this so that we can have
almost a perfect system in terms of developing the proposal for this site.
I'd also like to say that I am asking this City Commission in view of
what I said just earlier in terms of the opportunities we have to utilize
under - utilized land for the betterment of the City of Miami; that under
no circumstances am I asking you or am I asking myself to accept the
proposal that is less than of a quality nature, or less than what we
think is needed in the City of Miami, therefore, if a proposal is re-
ceived, we are not saying that if that proposal is not in the character
of the City of Miami, that this City Commission or the City Manager has
to accept it. What we are asking is to allow us to go through the
process to see what innovative developer can lend to the City of Miami,
or propose to the City of Miami for development of that land, and if it
is acceptable to the Commission, then we accept it. If it is not, then
we do not accept it. After saying all of that, I would like to identify
the changes that we have in the RFP. The first, which was mentioned
earlier by Commissioner Plummer, addresses the acreage. That is a minor
scrivener's error, Commissioner, for the mere fact that the original
RFP that you have entailed the development of the whole land, however;
for the development side, which includes the amusement, the entertain-
ment, and the restaurant was on the south section. The north section
was to be done, was to be utilized for a public infrastructure. An
original proposal envisioned at the City of Miami will pay for that. I
have changed that to say that the developer will pay for the total cost
of development without the City having any liability or any financial
responsibility in terms of coming up with tax dollars or other tax and
revenue dollars to finance that, and therefore, the north side, which
was not included in the original acreage is now included because we want
the developer to do it as opposed to what the original plan was that the
City would do that, so that is not a major, major, change. It is just
a change in terms of who is going to pay for the project, and therefore
it increases the acreage that has to be developed by the developer. Yes,
Commissioner Dawkins?
Mr. Dawkins: The Mayor asks that I wait until you finish - go ahead.
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03 JAN, 51984
Mr. Gary: Okay, the second change that I just alluded to is that there
is not an option for the City to pay for public improvement, which may
total for $35,000,000 to $55,000,000. in the original proposal they
said that the City may, but we were taking into conideration and select
a developer, those that agree to pay a portion or all of that cost. We
are now saying that the developer will pay all of the costs. The second
change was that instead of making an option for the developer to do the
marinas and the parking facilities, we saying that that is mandatory.
We know we are going to need parking, so he is got to pay for it. It
is not optional. It is a mandatory requirement. We know we want
marinas out there. It is not optional. We want them to do that. We
also clarified the language in terms of the gross vs. net issue which
came up through Rouse and J & B process and we now have standardized
that to say gross.. But it is always understood that the greatest return,
however, is the criteria for which we will evaluate financial returns.
Another change is, and that came up from the last proposal, and it is
again to refine the process and make it clear to the developer is that
we will not permit UDAG to be a method of financing any project.
Developers have got to come in with their own dollars and only after
we select the developer, the City, at its option may entertain an UDAG
from a developer. The reason we are taking that out is because UDAG
is uncertain - we don't know what the Federal Government is going to
do by the time we get ready to go through the process of developing
this land. The next change is that we now have taken out equity parti-
cipation as a requirement, and this is to preclude us from getting into
the problems of rent a citizen; however, we are encouraging ownership
by minorities on basis that they have got to take full risks and they
have got to have hands on responsibility with regards to the develop-
ment. We have also added, and it is not a change, but we have also
added the fact that the...
Mr. Dawkins: Give me these pages as you go through where you made
these changes, Mr. Gary, please.
Mr. Gary: Okay, all of this can be found on the summary side on Page
2. And if you look at the large type, which is the third paragraph,
this is the first change. We added here on the third sentence "It is
desirable that the development include provisions for outdoor and in-
door performing arts facilities, audio-visual theatres, stages, amphi-
theatres, arenas, galleries and T.V. and theatre production studios."
Additionally, the development may include rides and attractions, and
why Bayside is planning for some 220,000 square feet of specialty
center, and food service, the City proposed that the Watson Island
retail proposals may include up to 90,000 square feet of dining and re-
tail facilities as a compliment to the Bayside Project. The next
change is on Page 3, where it says the sites (first paragraph) the
City is providing a 60 acre land parcel, which includes all of Watson
Island except for the U. S. A.I.A. right of way, amphibious aircraft
and helicopter terminal, and the City's Japanese Garden. These facili-
ties comprise approximately 18.7 acres of land. At this point, I would
like to let you know that we have excluded the Yacht Club as being an
on -going facility, if those developers so decide. What we have provided
for is the retention of the Japanese Gardens, the amphbious aircraft,
and the helicopter terminal, which includes Chalk Airways. It also
provides too, that it gives the developer flexibility in terms of or-
ganizing his proposal that these facilities can be relocated within the
island, to assure that they work, though. It also provides for the
Historic Coral Rock House to remain on the Island, and that also can be
relocated and hoping that that can be turned into a restaurant. The
next change, Mr. Mayor, and Commissioners, is in the funding and it
deals with - the first significant one is the second sentence, that
says the City expects proposer to provide equity and debt capital ade-
quate for the proposal development, and that is to insure that they
have adequate funding to insure the financial success of the project.
The second sentence, while the City expects the developer to provide
all the funding, all the funding to the development, the City, at its
option, may exercise its authority to use -issue tax-exempt revenue bonds
as a financing tool for an amount not to exceed $35,000,000 for prepara-
tion of Watson Island site, including all aspects of the infrastructure
and public and facilities included, but not limited to vehicles and
04 :JAN 51984
Id
pedestrian bridges, access and service roads, parking facilities sani-
tary sewer connections to the main land and site utilities. Basically,
what this says it says they are responsible for financing everything.
We may allow them to use our tax advantages and our financing capabili-
ties through the bond market - the issue of tax revenue bonds, provided
they pay for that through a guaranteed backup pledge and covered debt
service as the year goes along through the amortization process.. The
last change was the UDAG which I talked about, and that is then it be-
comes optional. Mr. Mayor, and members of the Commission, I also...
Mr. Dawkins: May I say you also ... I am sorry for cutting you off, Mr.
Gary ... you also made a changed in equity participation. What page is
that on?
Mr. Gary: That is on page 20. You will notice that we don't have a
requirement for equity participation. It basically says that minorities
expect to be an integral park of the developmert team, participating
substantially in construction contracts and jobs and comprises and a
significant part of the permanent management team as well as all business
and work force created by the development. We also made some changes
in terms of the numbers for evaluating each proposal, Page 13.
Mayor Ferre: The process of evaluation, is that what you said?
Mr. Gary: Yes, sir. This is to do the scoring, based qn the criteria.
The change, Mr. Mayor, and members of the Commission, first one I would
like to mention is that under the original RFP, and the one we utilized
under Rouse and the J.M.B. Bayside Project, we had Item Number.,2,
financial capability to the level of financial commitment, combined with
financial return which is Number 3, now. We are separating those out.
The finacial capability is separate and financial return is separate.
We have also, Mr. Mayor, eliminated one other criteria, and that was
the project management team, because we thought that was somewhat of
duplication of Number 1, experience with development team, including
specific experiences with similar projects, so therefore, we have
now a change in the scoring. Experience of the development team is 20%.
Financial capability is 20%. 30% for financial return, that is very
significant, over and above the top two. Number 4, overall project
design, that should be 20%, not 25%. An extent of minority participation
is 10%, Page 13. Another change is on the same page and it is the first
paragraph that says the proposers are expected to make all disclosures
and declarations as requested and to deliver along with the proposal a
Cashier's check for $15,000,
Mr. Dawkins: You had $50,000 on the other one.
Mr. Gary: I am changing that, because I think that is prohibitive in
terms of allowing people to bid.
Mayor Ferre: now much does it cost?
Mr. Gary: Hear me out first.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, all right.
Mr. Gary: Which shall be non-refundable. We are keeping the $15,000.
Mr. Dawkins: We would want to keep the $50,000.
Mr. Gary: Well, wait a minute, let me explain it to you though. These
funds are intended to cover expenses incurred by the City in preparing
and issuing an evaluating a request for proposal. If, such expenses ex-
ceed these funds; for example, we get two proposals and $30,000, and we
spend $100,000, the successful proposer will be expected to provide
funding for the remaining expenses. They will be
required... shall. Is that okay, Mr. Attorney? Shall... provide funding
for the remaining expenses. And the reason we thought $50,000, at least
I personally thought $50,000 was excessive, and may preclude or maybe
a disincentive to get people to bid. It could raise the issue for minor-
ities that we are indirectly excluding them from participating, because
ld 05 JAN 51984
of excessive fees. So, we are covered by the $15,000, and we are guaran-
teed that the total expense will be covered because the successful bidder
will have to pay the difference - the same thing we did we Cable T.V.
Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Gary, I will wait, but I disagree with that.
I don't think that....
Mr. Dawkins: In total.
Mayor Ferre: We will get into that after Mr. Manager.
Mr. Plummer: $50,000 on a $50,000,000 project I don't think is out of
line.
Mayor Ferre: After the Manager concludes, we will get into many, many
subjects of discussion.
Mr. Gary: Let me just explain one thing, that the last RFP, the $50,000
is going to be a refundable amount, so, that is what I propose.
Mayor Ferre: We will get into discussion after you conclude your state-
ment.
Mr. Gary: Mr. Mayor, I have concluded my statement.
Mayor Ferre: All right, let me then begin. I have made my little notes
here, and the Chair will take the prerogative of beginning the discus-
sion. I have made my notes here. In the first place, Mr. Manager, I
would recommend that in that pprtion of the definition of infrastructure,
where you say parking, access, roads, sewerage connectors, there is a
place here where there is a definition.
Mr. Gary: Top of Page 4, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you. There is a place here where there is a defini-
tion of what the $35,000,000 can be expended for, and I understand it on
the top of Page 4, and I will read what it says now, and I will tell you
what I would like to add. It says public facilities including, but not
limited to, and I understand that broadens the whole thing, okay, to the
vehicular and pedestrian bridges, access and service roads, parking fa-
cilities, sanitary sewer connections to the mainland and site utilities.
I would like to put up for discussion the addition of improvements in
the beauty, landscaping, and artistic qualitities of the area, in other
words, and if you want to put major, that would be okay - in other
words, and I am not talking about putting flower beds, but I am talking
about perhaps bringing in major trees or major pieces of art or something
like that. I have no objections that in the infrastructure, we would in-
clude the amenities that would, I guess, be broadly classified as beauti-
fying the project. That is Number one. Number two, Mr. Manager, you were
not here in the beginning of this process, but Mr. Gilchrist and others
that were will remember that there was a provision somewhere in the
original contract, first with Pritzker, and secondly when we ended up
with Diplomat World, that there was at the end of the rainbow, once
the debt was paid, and once the City got paid its taxes and all that,
that there was a 5% provision out of the gross that would be accumulated
for the process, that instead of going to the General Fund in this par-
ticular case, we would go to funds specifically earmarked for cultural
and community type events, and the definition of culture is not a symphony,
but it could be a Kawanza Festival, it could be Calle Ocho, it could be the
Orange Blossom Classic Parade - that is culture. So, somewhere in there,
I think there needs, and I am not saying that it ought to be high in the
priority item, but if we proceed, a think this is going to be a highly
successful financial project and all that I am saying here is that we
should not forget where we started, which was the earmarking of certain
percentage of the money for the purposes of family oriented cultural type
of events, and it was, as•I recall, 5% of the gross off of the top, but...
Mr. Gilchrist: 5% of the gross off the top.
Mayor Ferre: ....by off the top,
you mean after debt service.
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JAN
5
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Mr. Gilchrist: It was part of operatine expenses.
Mayor Ferre: And after operating expenses and all that. - oh I see,
part of it - that is even better. In other words, it would go straight
to a special fund that the City would be dealing with for these events.
The ideal would be that we would be funding some of these cultural
things that now exceed $1,000,000 in our budget, out of the profits
that would be made, therefore, the ad valorem taxpaper would not be
paying for these things. That was the theory behind it. That was
second addendum that I had. The third, I think you covered it, but I
want to make sure that it is clearly understood on the record, that
the developers, when they bid for this, will have the flexibility of
moving both the Heliport; the Japanese Gardens, which is nothing but an
open green space now, anyway, and the Chalk around the island. In other
words, they many want the Japanese Gardens on the southern part of the
island and Chalk move from the key point, where they are at, which in
my opinion, is the 100% location on that island, maybe off to the side
a little bit, where they are a little bit out of the way. So, I think
that there has to be a clear indication of flexibility of moving these
elements around, provided they be kept, now are there are some which
obviously you cannot do that with, for example, you cannot do that with
that Coral House that we are moving. You can't. Okay, and it hasn't
been placed yet. I stand corrected. But, for example the Yacht Club.
What we are saying is, we are keeping the Yacht Clubs, but we are not.....
I think we ought to keep the Yacht Clubs and the marine facility, but
they could be shifted around. In other words, the Outboard Place could
be moved to another site and the Sailing place can be to another site,
so I think we ought to let the marketplace determine proposals as to
who goes where, rather than us predetermining any of this.
Mr. Gary: You are right, Mr. Mayor, however, this RFP does not make
provisions for necessarily retaining the Yacht Club as we have done for
Chalk and the Heliport and the Japanese Garden.
Mayor Ferre: That is something that we will have to discuss, I am sure
in the future. The next thing that I had is taxes.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENT)
Mayor Ferre: Is it, are you sure?
Mr. Plummer: Yes, it is all in there.
Mr. Gary: Okay.
Mayor Ferre: Now, there is no question that, like Bayside, these people
will be paying taxes on the improvements. They won't be paying taxes
on the land, because that is ours.
Mr. Plummer: No, no. Excuse me - ad valorem taxes are in this proposal,
Page 19.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENT)
Mr. Plummer: Yes, sir. They will be paying ad valorem.
Mayor Ferre: They will be paying taxes as if they owned the land on the
value of the property in the project, is that it?
Mr. Gary: Mr. Mayor, when I wrote in there they wouldn't, the State Law
says that if you are utiliziang public land for private purposes, you
have to pay ad valorem taxes, for that portion that is used for private
purposes.
Mr. Plummer: Page 19, Mr. Mayor, one, two, three, the fourth paragraph
down...
Mayor Ferre: Well, as long as it is in there, that is fine.
Mr. Plummer: Well, I think Mr. Mayor what you have to keep in the back
of your mind, the State of Florida has been thinking about taxing, such as
ld 07 JAN 51984
football stadiums and baseball stadiums around the State of Florida that
is still in the hopper, and here we, a number of cities in the State of
Florida have contracts that do not call for ad valorem taxes, and we
could be in a big serious problem.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, my point is that I think it has to be very clearly
spelled out that they are expected to pay taxes. The next point that I
have here is, Mr. Manager, I agree with Alvah Chapman and others in the
Chamber that have for a long time maintained that we ought to divide
the RFP's in such a way that if we are not satisfied with the amusement
theme park provisions of it, but are satisfied with the marina aspects
of it, that we will be able to separate it and you have to have a mechan-
ism which is legal, fair and properly defined, so that if at the will of
this Commission, we decide not to go ahead with the theme park, but there
is a proposal for a marina development and marina improvements, that we
will be free to choose out of the proposals that portion that we are
satisfied with and proceed with it rather than to throw the whole thing
out at the same time. Now, with regards to the design criteria, I think
somehow we need to put in there a statement that it is our expectations
for this to be water oriented. Let me explain why I think this is
important, and I don't want to be critical of J. B. Federated. J. B.
Federated came to us with a glass house - Victorian Glass House, moderni-
zed for the climate, so they said, but in effect, what it really was,
was a shopping center. It could have just as easily been in Springfield,
Massachusetts, Maryland, or Tucson, Arizona - that was all in one con-
tained unit, and in effect, they really did not take into account the
advantage of the location being on the waterfront. I think somehow, we
need to be very clear to those potential developers that if they come up
with a glass house on Watson Island, that that simply does not meet that
criterion provision. Now, Mr. Manager, one of the ways we had originally
conceived of doing that from the outside point of view, was from the
Interstate Highway down to the water edge, gradually slopping that land
and putting that as a requirement so that - we may not be talking about
more than five or six or seven feet elevation of the Interstate level,
but so that when people are walking around the property, as they look
towards the water, they will also have a view of the water, and somehow
we need to make that a little bit clearer that this must be a water
oriented, rather than an inwardly oriented or otherwise type of
project, and I don't think that is clear enough in this statement.
Mr. Plummer: Aren't you under the South Florida Flood Criteria?
Mr. Gary: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Which is 12 feet.
Mayor Ferre: I think, John, what I am trying to say is, that it ought
to be abundantly clear that we cannot end up another Victorian Glass
House proposal, that it must be water oriented, and that anything and
everything they do should be oriented towards the water. I have got
three more things. As I understand it, Mr. Manager, these specs that
you have submitted to us are in compliance with the D.R.I., as it has
been tentatively approved by the Cabinet, with the exception of the
economic feasibility portion. So, that is clear here, isn't it?
Now, as you know, we have to go before the Cabinet in April and as I
looked at your schedule here, we don't finish with this until May, and
we really don't conclude it until June or July. I think should this
Commission approve - should three members or more of this Commission
agree to proceed, we really need, I think...I don't think it is fair to
the proposers that we wait until April to get that clarified. I think
then, so that they feel a little more comfort, go to the Cabinet and
explain to them what we are doing, where we are at, and I think we
ought to ask them to extend the dates that they have to comply with the
dates that we have, so that they coincide. I frankly do not perceive any
major problem in that, provided that we are in earnest and do this serious-
ly, but I think we have got to state that somewhere in here, because other-
wise, the question will come up, "Well, if I am going to be bidding on this
and I am going to spend $300,000 putting up a proposal, and you tellinq me
you want me to do this, and then come April 2nd, the Cabinet says no more
time and we have spent $250,000 at that point, and we won't see the end of
it". That needs to be clarified. Then, I've got three more things.
ld 08 JA N 5 1984
Mayor Ferre: (con't) Future growth - As you know, this community is
struggling with the idea as to where to put up its future cultural
facilities. As you know, the Committee voted again, in the last couple
of weeks and the vote was within one vote - in other words, it was 6
to 5, as I recall reading it in the paper, where they voted the Number
one site to be in the Government Center. The Number two site to be at
Bayside, next to Bayside, in the FEC property, and Number three was
Watson Island. Now, as I recall the grading of those numbers, Watson
Island and Bayside was very, very close. This was two years ago, when
John McMullen first came up with the idea. It is my personal opinion,
that the government location - government site is much too small for
what they want to do, and they just do not have the land, so I think
they are going to be forced to either go to Bayside, or to Watson Is-
land. Now, this Commission has gone on record against having anything
built on the Bayfront Park other than what we are doing at Bayside. A
future Commission may change that position, but as of now, that is where
we are at, but there are many who think that Watson Island is the best,
because eventually there will be a people mover going to South Beach
and up to the beach convention center to tie it into Miami, and therefore
if and when that occurs and Watson Island becomes very, very important
as a location, I personally think that this community that has no major
football stadium, that has no baseball stadium, major baseball stadium,
that has no coliseum, is going to put its money in those types of pro-
fitable, or potentially profitable facilities before we build a major
opera house, other than what T.O.P.A. is going to do, which is itself is
a $50,000,000 project, as I recall. But, I think that if T.O.P.A.
goes, and from the looks of it, with voter approval it is going to yu,
I just think we are not going to see a $50,000,000 or $100,000,000
expenditure for theatres and opera houses and what have you in the next
five years. Therefore, I would hope that we would leave sufficient
room on Watson Island so that if indeed we end up with a first class
park there with ten or fifteen restaurants and a place where people are
anxious to go, where we have the parking and the commuication structure
built into it, and should there be a desire by this community five or
ten years from now to build theatres and cultural centers there, that
we somehow left enough room for that, and I think that needs to be more
clearly specified in there. Two more things - minorities - I am concerned
that...I understand the reluctance on the community's part and the disgust
on all of us as part of this rent a citizen stuff. On the hand, as Father
Gibson used to say, "Tokenism isn't very good" and I don't like it any
more than anybody else does, but I would rather have one than none, and if
we get one, than maybe we can get two and maybe we can get three. Now,
that doesn't always work. It hasn't work in the Orange Bowl Committee,
where we have had one Black now for seven or eight years and we are still
waiting for the second, but we now have three Cubans, which before there
was only Leslie Pantin. Now, we have two more, so hopefully, we can
build on that. So therefore, what I am saying is that I am not too sure
that I am in agreement with the total elimination of having minority
requirement. I know that the evils of rent a citizens are severe, but on
the other hand, in Bayside, it was criticized, but as it ended up, I
think it ended up hurting J. B. Federated, and the way they approached
it, rather than helping them, so I don't think we should necessarily fear
that, and I just think that somehow we need to reconsider that portion,
and lastly, the question of the $15,000 vs. the $50,000, as the down
payment to get into the game. How did we do it in Bayside?
Mr. Gilchrist: $30,000, and refundable to everyone except the success-
ful bidder.
Mayor Ferre: What in effect you are saying is, $15,000, non-refundable.
Wouldn't we be better off going to the same as Bayside, and not making
this an issue - do it the same way we did it before? That didn't work
badly, did it? From a practical point of view, Howard, I doubt very much
if you are going to have more than three or four bidders, if that.
Mr. Gary: I can live with Bayside. I guess I am always concerned that
we may be accused of -excluding people to economic means.
Mayor Ferre: Howard, anybody who bids this is going to have to spend
a couple hundred thousand dollars. There is no way you are going to
bid this with a $10,000. In other words, I don't frankly...
09 JAN 51984
Mr. Gary: You know, that is a kind of a contradiction in which you
just said about equity too. You know, there are minorities out there
that cannot afford probably what a Marriott, or J.M.B., or Rouse can,
and even though they may not market and conclude that they would not be
selected because they aren't of that caliber, it is the same as our
Civil Sdrvice rules and regulations - you have got to give them that
opportunith, whether they are selected or not. I would have no problems,
Mr. Mayor, agreeing to the $30,000 the same as Bayside, but with one
modification - that is that the successful proposer would have to pay
any additional expenses as occur. I have no problem with that.
Mayor Ferre: Okay, fine. I am flexible on that - whatever the rest of
the Commission wnats to do. Major landscaping, funds for culture, air
terminals, taxes, separate marina, okey, that completes my list.
We will do this be seniority. J. L.? As the oldest member of this Com-
mission, we will take you up next.
Mr. Plummer: I am going to make it easy for you. Mr. Gary, here are
my areas of concern. Are you ready? Number one, this draft does not
contain a development site map. I want to know what areas are being
proposed? Where are the 68 acres located, that are the basis for
development?
Mayor Ferre: Everything but the roads.
Mr. Plummer: No, I don't understand that. I am concerned about transfer
rights. I find nothing in the proposal that addresses transfer rights,
or subleasing. I find nothing in the proposal, if this God forbid, should
go broke. What are the City's buyouts, how do we work with that situation?
I find nothing in the proposal to prohibit, which I would require, and
make mandatory, that nothing of this project could be used for pledging
for other projects that the developer might be involved in. I find nothing
in this draft about minimum annual payments. The one area that I also have
a problem with, there is nothing mandatory, for example, as is set forth
now - the Committee which is chosen, recommending to you to recommend to
us, is to recommend the best proposal. I feel that it is mandatory that
if none of the proposals are good, that should be also a recommendation
of that committee. There is nothing here now. The way '.:hat it is set
up, says that you take all the proposals and recommend cl:e best ones.
It doesn't say that if all ... if they don't feel that if any of them,
I think that should be a responsiblity of the committee. I understand
fully where it says that the City reserves the right to reject all bids,
but I think the committee has an obligation, if none of the proposals are
good, to make that recommndation. Just remember that the press played
up greatly the recommendation of the committee as it related to Bayside.
I have problem, Mr. Gary, with the terminology on Page 1, where the City
has the right to waive any irregularities. I think that this is some-
what I am open for discussion. but I think this somewhat eliminates the
competitiveness of a proposal. What it basically says, we can waive
those irregularities after the Commission has made a choice. I think
that is something that needs to be addressed. On Page...
Mayor Ferre: Could you clarify that a bit more?
Mr. Plummer: Yes, well, okay, in other words, when you make a bid,
if you make an irregularity in the bid, as we...
Mayor Ferre: For example, it says 50 feet and you go to 100. That's
one, okay? I think a proposal should be put forth, if it is a definite
proposal. What I am saying is, I don't think that there should be in
a proposal the availability of negotiating a bid. A proposal is a bid.
Now, I have no problem with the City negotiating in the final analysis.
But, I think the bids, if we,are going to have - let's go back to Bay -
side one second. In Bayside, we have the contention of one of the
proposers, that the other side did not comply with the bids. As I
recall, the terminology - one was gross, and one was net. That is an
irregularity.
Mayor Ferre: Okay, I got you.
10
ld JAN 51984
6 6.
Mr. Plummer: Okay? No, either you comply with the proposal as put
forth, or you don't bid. The City doesn't accept your bid. You either
comply with the proposal, or your bid will not be accepted. Now, I don't
want that in there that says from Day One that the City has the right to
negotiate. I don't think that is right. I want further clarification,
because as I read the terminology, I think I have a problem on Page 2,
about half way down, in which it states "The City proposes that the
Watson Island proposals may include up to 90,000 square feet of dining
and retail f3rilities as a complement to Bayside." Now, to me at best,
"as a complement to" is misleading.
Mayor Ferre: I think you ought to strike that one. Bayside has nothing
to do with this...
Mr. Plummer: Well, I have nothing to say "similar to", but not as a
complement to. In other words, it is giving the impression in my
understanding of the English, that this will be an accessory to Bay -
side. It is not. This is an independent project on its own.
Mayor Ferre: I think you are totally correct. I don't think there
should be any reference to Bayside, any more than there should be any
reference to Coconut Grove or any other place.
Mr. Gary: We put some mention of Bayside for the mere fact that we
have 200,000 square feet. We want developers to know that there will
be similar types of activity over at Bayside, and you need to take
that into consideration when you do your development. That is the only
reason that we put it in there. It is all like a disclosure, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Dawkins: Since we are not going to let J. L. finish, let me come
in, then.
Mr. Plummer: Go ahead.
Mr. Dawkins: I have a problem with the whole thing. You say here in
one proposal, 90,000 square feet of retail and restaurant services. Then,
in the next proposal, you come up with 220,000 square feet of specialty
center and food service. We already have Bayside on the other side of
the park with specialty food services, so what are we doing, duplicating
everything on the other side of the park? If you are going to put fast
food services and speciality shops in the Watson Island, then you are
going to be competition with Bayside.
Mr. Gary: If you will recall, if I may, Commissioner Dawkins, since
you were fortunate enough to go with us to Baltimore, and...
Mr. Dawkins: We didn't have no Watson Island in Baltimore!
Mr. Gary: And, if I may, in Boston. One of the things that they told
us in Boston, the people at Rouse as well as the government people,
was that as a result of the competition of Faneuil Hall, which was pro-
viding some of the same eating kinds of establishments that existed in
close proximity within the City, that that was healthy competition and
it generated more activity than reduced that activity, and I don't see
two projects that happen to be on public land, being any different than
that kind of concept or theory.
Mr. Dawkins: Well, I am glad you don't; I do. I've a great amount of
competition and I see you having empty shops on one or both sides of
your project. I mean, that is what I envision, okay?
Mr. Gary: Well, let me tell you how...
Mr. Dawkins: Secondly, I am not sure you explained it - explain to me
why you went from 90,000 square feet to 200,000 square feet and of the
total acreage, 68 acres, how much of it is going to be left as open
land on Watson Island, and how, or are you going to develop the whole
68 acres? See, when we started out, we weren't going to develop the
whole island.
Mr. Gary: Okay.
Mr. Dawkins: When you stood up here and got me to okay it and go along
with this, you were going to come back and bring me something that said
you were going to develop 35 acres of Watson Island, Now, today you come
5 1984
Id 1� JAN
a
back and give me something that says you have doubled your demand for
land, which is wrong.
Mr. Gary: Okay, if I may. First of all, you are looking on Page 2 and
I want to respond to your first question between the 90,000 and the
200,000. That sentence says "additionally, the development may include
rides and attractions" and while Bayside, if planned for some 220,000
square feet - that is Bayside, of specialty centers and food centers.
The City proposes that Watson Island be 90,000, so we are not changing
Watson Island to 220,000. That 220,000 relates strictly to Bayside.
Mr. Dawkins: All right, then I will go the other way then. When you
first started out, you started out with 35 acres. Now, you are going
to develop 67 acres. Now, explain the difference - what is the
difference in that.
Mr. Gary: Okay, the difference in that is that the development portion,
excluding public infrastructure, was to be the 35 acres.
Mr. Dawkins: Was to be - but now we are going say you can develop it
all if you desire!
Mr. Gary: Let me finish. The other 30 some acres, Commissioner, was
to be developed by the City, utilizing its money to put up garages,
Number one, and marinas, and marina associated facilities, utilizing
our money. And what I am saying now, is that...no, we would not spend
our money to do that - the developers will, so it was always the
intent of us using the whole island. The difference is that one side
we were going to develop and the other side we were going to allow
the developers to develop. Now, in terms of open space...
Mr. Dawkins: Go ahead, Mr. Gary.
Mr. Gary: No developer, who is concerned about having a viable project,
is going to jam up that land, and even if somebody proposed that, Com-
missioner Dawkins, I don't think the committee, myself, or the City
Commission is going to accept it. We have got to let the marketplace
determine, first of all, what should be done, and that market is going
to tell you that you have got to have a facility that is going to be
able to allow open space, people to move back and forth - easy ingress
and egress, and with regard to what the committee is going to do, and
what the accounting firm is going to do, this proposal also requires
a market analysis to insure that the figures and the projections of
sales take into consideration Bayside and everything else that is hap-
pening downtown that is going to be a viable project.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, two things, Mr. Gary.
Mr. Plummer: Let me just say to my colleague once again, Mr. Dawkins -
this is the ideas of the Manager. That isn't where the buck stops.
If three votes on this Commission mandate that it shall not exceed 40
acres, I think Mr. Gary is smart and enjoyed his Christmas bonus, that
he would like to continue.
Mr. Gary: If it is bigger!
Mr. Plummer: Or smaller! Or, none at all!
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Manager, I think we are just talking semantics here.
I don't seel any problem at all.
Mr. Dawkins: No, I am not talking semantics, Mr. Mayor! I am not. Now,
you may. I am not talking...
Mayor Ferre: I am not talking for you.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, but you said "we" though. You said "we". You said
"we" now, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: I stand corrected, Commissioner Dawkins.
ld 12 S84
.JAN 5
rL a
Mr. Dawkins: Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: I stand corrected. I think we are talking semantics
here because I think that we "we", all believe that it should be 35
acres, except for Commissioner Dawkins, it doesn't believe that there
should be any acres. Now, the rest of this, who may believe that this
project should proceed, assuming that that is the case, I think we
all recognize it, that "we" assuming that we vote in a majority for
this project do not want for it to exceed 35 acres in the park develop-
ment aspects as it was designed in the beginning, even though, by the
way, in the beginning, John, wasn't it 40 acres? So, we in effect,
have cut down - we the City, you the Manager have cut down 5 acres
from that 40 to 35, but I think the reason why I think it is a seman-
tical game, is what we are talking about here, is where the 35 acres
fits within the 86, is what you are opening for flexibility. Is that
correct? What you are saying is, we are letting you look at the whole
island, and come back with a proposal as to how to develop it, but we
are not going to have 60 acres of amusement park.
Mr. Gary: No, we are not saying that.
Mayor Ferre: Okay, that is my point.
Mr. Gary: We are saying there are 68 acres for which you have a right
to plan to put these facilities. You don't have to use it all. You
can use a portion of it. That is basically what he is saying.
Mayor Ferre: But, Commissioner Plummer is saying, as I,understand
it, that the developed portion of the private sector would be limited
to 35 acres, and where that 35 acres goes, excluding the public por-
tion, which means...
Mr. Gary: Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Ferre: Now, I am I mistaken, because I need to understand this.
Mr. Gary: John is telling me that the 40 acres was limited mainly for
the attraction.
Mayor Ferre: That is what I am saying.
Mr. Gary: You know, we have been talking about cultural center as a...
Mayor Ferre: We are not talking about this.
Mr. Gary: Yes, we are. We have on Page 2...
Mayor Ferre: Okay, now I understand.
Mr. Gary: "It is desirable that development include provisions for
outdoor -indoor performing arts facilities, audio visual theatres,
stages, amplitheatres, arenas, galleries, etc." If you limit yourself
to 40, Mr. Mayor, and you tell them that this is desirable, you have
one or two things - you are going to have somebody that has given you
only (about only), if you assume you need 20 or 25 acres for a cultural
center, you are leaving them only 15 acres, if you go 40, for everything
else, and we all know cultural centers don't make money, and you are not
going to have 15 acres that is not only going to support paying
$35,000,000 worth of infrastructure, and paying off their debts to build
both of those things. Nobody is going to bid.
Mr. Plummer: May I continue?
Mayor Ferre: Please.
Mr. Plummer: I'd like to get finished. On Page Number 4, services
such as police and fire protection shall be provided equal to those
as provided in the other private development. I think that you need
to say municipal services. One of the big problems there, in my esti-
mation would be that of sanitation, and I think that we have to address
all municipal services, not just police and fire. I think it is manda-
tory, since we are asking for companies who have been in this business,.
ld 13 JAN 51984
6
Hopefully, that is what we will get. I want incorporated in the RFP,
that they submit to us a history of their last two or three projects,
so that we can use that as analysis of how they have done, and also we
can have a save the nation clause in that particular RFP. If they are
operating in Timbuktu, we want to make sure that the City gets as good
a deal as Timbuktu is getting, so I want to save the nation clause in
that RFP. Mr. Gary, basically, that is most of - I think that you
might be smart, on Page 19, as it relates to advertising and promotion,
I very vividly recall, at the Mayor's insistence, and I backed him,
there was a definite number put into that proposal as to the amount
of money which would be used for initial promotion as it related to
the Convention Center. I think that this should be clearly delineated
as to how much money will be spent by the developer for advertising,
and promotion.
Mr. Gary: If I may on that subject, I would prefer to leave it broad
like this, because you don't want to say at least 100,000. That oc-
curs, Commissioner, during the negotiation of the contract. -
Mr. Plummer: I would feel comfortable with a minimum, of - okay?
And the last and only change that I have is that which I proposed,
that the renaming of the island be renamed Atlantis. By the way, Mr.
Gary, I wish...
Mayor Ferre: Only problem with that, J. L., is that Atlantis sunk.
Mr. Plummer: Exactly! You catch on quick! (LAUGHTER)
Mayor Ferre: I think if you are going to name it Atlantis, I would
make that motion right now and kill the project right now. There is
no use making the Manager go through all this work if your intention is
this.
Mr. Plummer: I think I am only joking.
Mayor Ferre: Now the other...
Mr. Carollo: They still haven't found it, either.
Mayor Ferre: They still haven't found it. The other...that is not a
bad idea about changing the name, you know, and I ... since we are coming
up to the 500th anniversary of the discovery of America by Columbus,
maybe that might be something that we might want to consider - is a re-
naming. Bayside is a renaming of a portion of Bayfront Park, and I
don't think that we necessarily...
Mr. Plummer: That is the Park of the Americas.
Mayor Ferre: Bayfront Park of the Americas. Bayside is a new name, so
that is not a bad idea. Watson, I think it is time for us to move along
and get another name.
Mr. Plummer:- The only thing I wanted to call to your attention, Mr.
Gary, is I wish that you would have the appropriate party go to the
Convention Center and take special note of the two signs which are
existing there in relation to the Knight Center World Trade Building -
nothing about the City of Miami. There are two signs that have been
recently erected there, and the City's name really is not there.
Mayor Ferre: Finished?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, at this particular time, that is all that I
have.
Mayor Ferre: Okay, Commissioner Carollo.
Mr. Carollo: Mr. Mayor, I have quite a few questions, some that were
asked by Commissioner•Plummer', and•some which, when I came in, were
being asked by you. I don't know what the schedule is for the rest of
my colleagues here, but I, unfortunately, have to be out of here by
noon. What I would like to do for the sake of time today, is to have
the opportunity and again, I am asking for it, as I did at the previous
Id 14 JAN 51984
4 4
time that we met on this - to meet with the Manager and Staff, and to
go over my concerns with them personally. Then, when we come back to
discuss this again, hopefully we can come to some firm conclusion. I
think if I start going through all the questions that I have, we are
not going to leave here until 3:00 o'clock this afternoon, at least.
So, I would rather pass the time to some of my other colleagues, that
might have some lesser questions and more to the point than what I
have right now.
Mr. Dawkins: Frankly, Mr. Mayor, I agree with what Commissioner Car-
rollo said. We will be here, so I will just make three statements
which the Manager can look for me to take up with him later. Number
one is, I agree with you that we should not be renting citizens be-
cause all you do is rent them and they come up with no equity, and
I agree in total with you on that price. That is part of it. The
second thing is, I would hope that as you talk of developing the
parking and etcetera, that, if you are not talking in terms of provid-
ing a plum for the developer, I also would hope that you take into
considerations when we provide, as J. L. said, the garbage pickup,
that if it is contracted out to a private concern, that they also
pick up the trash, because we are losing money now when the private
concerns go out and collect the garbage and the City of Miami has to
go out and pick up the trash. My third thing is to the City Attorney.
The Mayor said that when the Selection Committee bring$ back its recom-
mendation, that we should not throw out the entire (I think now, I do
not want to lie, I am trying to paraphrase what he said) that we
should not throw out the entire proposal, but we should take the part
that we like in order to save it. Now, according to the...
Mayor Ferre: No, no, that is not what I said and that is not
what I meant if that is what I said.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, I want to know from the City Attorney, didn't
the referendum that passed said that we had one, we could do one of
two things - the recommendation from the Committee must be accepted
or must be returned to them. If that is correct, then we can't do -
what was the other thing that was proposed? Is that right or wrong?
Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Commissioner Dawkins, the Charter Amendment does
spell out what you can do. I made note of the Mayor's comments and
chatted briefly with Mr. Gary. and I need
to come back to you to tell you if that is feasible. It certainly
is not what I thought would be discussed here, and I want to have
the opportunity to explore that a little bit.
Mr. Plummer: Well, wait a minute, excuse me - it was my understanding,
and please, the Mayor has got to speak for himself, but my understand-
ing, which I agreed with him on, is that this could go out in two
parts. It could go out one part as a proposed park - "B" portion could
be that of a marina - "C" portion that of a cultural center, and it
would be where we could choose.
Mr. Dawkins: Then there is no argument, because then all that is going
to come back is a recommendation for a cultural art center, a recommen-
dation for a "C". So there is really no discussion.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I don't know whether there is discussion, or not,
but Commissioner Plummer has interpreted what I said, exactly as I
said it.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, well, all I am saying is true, there is no need
for us to talk in terms of break up of proposals, because you know,
you sent it out as "We want the development of this, we want the
development of that". We are,not sending it out as Watson Island
Development, you come in and say you are going to do "A", "B", "C",
and "D".
Mayor Ferre: Commissioner Dawkins, and Mr. Manager, sometimes we will
put out a bid for a street repavement, and the bid goes like this -
ld 1 JAN 51984
� 6
the bid will be broken up into three portions. Portion "A" is the street.
Portion "B" is the sidewalk, along with amenities and Portion "C", is
the landscaping, okay? You can bid on either one or all of "A", "B",
and "C", and all I am saying here is that when the document goes out,
that it say something like this: Watson Island is a proposed develop-
ment and it is broken down, basically into two portions. One is the
amusement park portion as approved by the Cabinet, the D.R.I., approval,
and the other is the marine oriented marina portion of it, as also
approved in that same proposal, so that there be an "A" and a "B"
section. The bidders can bid either "A" and or "B".
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, Mr. City Attorney, bring me a ruling back when
you come back. If the Watson Island Project, as a unified development,
whatever we voted on, is the same as putting out bids for roads, and
all, and do the road and those come under unified development, whatever
it is that we are working under? Will you bring that back when you
come back?
Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Yes, sir.
Mr. Dawkins: Thank you.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Gary, I would hope, I don't know why - maybe I am
just being picky, but I hope we would drop the word amusement park
and strictly stick with a theme park. An amusement park to me is a
carnival. A theme park does not have to be a carnival. It can be
something that could be very, very, nice. I would hope we would drop
the word amusement and go to theme.
Mr. Gary: We did - it is not anywhere in the document - anything that
says amusement.
Mayor Ferre: I would rather that we call it a recreation cultural
center, but what we call it is again a semantical thing. Okay, Com-
missioner Dawkins is finished. Commissioner Perez?
Commissioner Perez: First thing, Mr. Mayor, I want to point out that
there is no mention about the Bayside Project's economic aspects. I
think that if we can find some kind of competition between the Watson
Island and Bayside, and I would like to have complete information about
all the details on the economic aspects between Watson and Bayside. I
think that it can affect the revenues of the City, and I would like to
have all the figures in that direction. Do you have anything?
Mr. Gary: That is going to be difficult for me to do for the mere
fact that I don't have anything to compare anything with.
Mr. Plummer: No, I don't agree with that, Mr. Gary. I think one of
the proposals before the Cabinet and one of their criteria is an
economic and financial study.
Mr. Gary: But, how can I do that with...
Mayor Ferre: It is a chicken - egg situation, that is the only thing
left to be determined. The Cabinet is saying City of Miami show us the
the economic feasibility of that. Now, we (I), representing you, when
I have gone up there with Gilchrist and our attorney, have said to the
Cabinet, how can we show you an economic feasibility when we don't have
a bid yet? So, in effect, what they said is - All right, take another
year, go out and get your bids and then come back,- so in effect, Com-
missioner Perez, you cannot compare apples for oranges until you have
the oranges. We don't know who is going to bid what - how can there
be a comparison when we don't know... suppose, for example, Disney
decides to come into this, or that a big developer would come in and
try to —we just don't know! So, I think what you are asking the
Manager to do, is something that he probably could do in very general
terms, but I don't know how he could comply...
Mr. Perez: Yes, but the first thing that I want to ask on this direc-
tion is to try to avoid any kind of competition. I think that if we
try to duplicate some service of some islands that we have in Bayside,
both projects are very close, and I would like...I think that competition
16
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6
tk
of both projects would be very bad
would like to know how the Manager
projects can be alive in the City.
for the revenue of the City and I
perceives the waiver that both
Mr. Plummer: Let me add to that. I think what Commissioner Perez is
saying, Mr. Manager, is that should be fully understood by the proposers
of Watson Island, that Bayside is a reality, and that Bayside is going
to be built, and you proceed on your proposal with Watson Island, know-
ing with full knowledge that that has already been put into the works,
so the proposer on Watson Island doesn't come back and say later - "Well,
if you didn't have Bayside, I could have made it".
Mr. Gary: It is in the proposal.
Mr. Perez: Second, about the five members, I think that the five mem-
bers of the review committee is supposed to have clear minority repre-
sentation. I received the Miami News yesterday your information about
rent a citizen. That is important. I think that we have to choose
a real person who are identified with the community, not only to have
a Hispanic name, or to have Black name. I think that we need to have
those people very identifiable, and very qualified, for them to under-
stand the needs of the whole community. Also, now this change of 68
acres. In the first proposal you didn't specify anything about the
the parking facilities, and that is part of the first purchase, but I
think it more clear now, this time. I think that is part of the
difference between Trade Fair and the old 33 acres. Okay, about the
Japanese Gardens, I feel that it is important that we place some kind
of condition, and I would like to know what would be the future of
the Japanese Gardens, if this project is approved.
Mr. Gary: We are saying that the Japanese Gardens will remain - that
it will be the responsibility of the successful developer where it
should be located in the park, and they also have the responsibility
for maintaining it and upgrading it.
Mr. Perez: Okay, about the time table - I think that the time table
is too tight. We are going to have the three proposal conference
the 23rd of this month, how will it be possible to have the deadline
for April 2nd?
Mr. Gary: Well, if you recall, our discussion at the last City Commis-
sion meeting, we recognized that it was going to be a tight schedule,
but we also recognized that it was important for us to get this process
going so that we could demonstrate to the State that we are moving for-
ward in this process. It is going to be tight and we think we can
make it. And the bottom line is, that whether we can still meet this
deadline is depending upon us rewriting the proposals, sitting down with
Commissioner Carollo, making the changes, coming back to you and you
identifying a date very soon for us to meet to discuss this again..
Mr. Perez: Do you think that will be enough time to prepare a proposal
of this magnitude in just 60 days?
Mr. Gary: Oh, sure.
Mr. Perez: Okay, I think that it is important also, to promote some
kind of national and international advertising campaign in order to
try to attract ... I know a lot of European developers that would be
interested in this project, if they have better information and a bet-
ter approach. I think that it would be important in order to attract
more participants. Also, I would like to ask of the City Attorney if
it is possible to have any kind of clause in order to protect the
local contracters in the bidding process. Is there something we can
do in this direction?
Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Well, there is a proposal already, Commissioner
Perez, as part of the criteria for minority participation, a provision
at Page 20 that requires contracters to comply with the applicable
minority ordinances in the City of Miami, and further expects them as
part of the criteria for selection to have minorities be an integral
part of the development team, participate substantially in construction
contracts and jobs and comprise a significant part of the permanent
Id 17 AN 51984
4 4
management team, as well as all businesses and work force created by
the development, so I would think that if those provisions and particular-
ly the requirements of the Code be observed, which is of course a require-
ment of law, are observed, that that would effectively satisfy your con-
cerns.
Mr. Perez; Yes, but I am not just talking about minorities in this
case. I am talking about a local contracter. You think that is possible
to establish any kind of priority for the contracter from the City of
Miami to have the competition on an equal basis with contractors south
of town and people out of the state that can...
Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Yes, sir, that could be added to the criteria.
Mr. Plummer: I think... let me tell you something. The problem that I
have had on the minority is - I think we are lacking in one area, and
that is on minority participation, there is not spelled out clearly
local minorities. We had firms who have come in here, who say "Yes,
we've got Blacks". They are all from Atlanta! They are all from
New York! They are all from Detroit! "Yes, we've got Latins." None
of them local! I think when you talk about ... I don't agree, as Mr.
Gary, you have said from the onset, with the so called rent a citizen,
and that is interpreted by me to mean that you get local rent a citizens
to get the bid, and then when the bid is over, the rent is over, and you
are evicted. I think we need the local involvement, local minorities,
as well, and I think that is something we need to consider, that the
local aspect is as important as local minorities. I think that is very
important. I don't want minorities that come from California because
they are Hispanic...or Texas, or Blacks that are from Canada, or any-
thing, because they can say "Okay, we've got 40% Blacks", but not a one
of them are local Blacks. The charity starts at home.
Mr. Gary: Well, just for clarification purposes, my rent a citizen
concern is, people who cannot bring anything to the project, other
than political influence, and no risks. In fact, if I may, if I
can, Commissioner... is that I have no problem with a local Black or
Latin attorney, or female attorney, who will be the legal arm for that
agency, who will actually have on hand experience and contribute risk
for equity to be a part. A person who does not bring any of those
things, but is just there, because they have some influence peddling
expertise, that is my concern about rent a citizen. In terms of
local residents, our experience, particularly with regard to the
Cable T.V., and importantly to the Rouse Company, they have been
local people. They are local minorities.
Mr. Dawkins: But, Mr. Gary, what we are saying to you is, that if he
is not a local minority, when the project is over, he takes his pro-
fits out of the Miami area. If we get some local minorities, then
that individual takes his profit and recycles it into this neighbor-
hood and this community, and we help this community. Now, as you
know, on the affordable housing, the biggest Black contracter was Mr.
Thacker, who is not local, and I don't know how many local subcon-
tracters he will have. On the other one, it was Serka or whatever
it was, and it is not local, so all I am saying to you, I don't know
what Mr. Plummer is saying here, that I would like to see written in
there, that your proposals will be evaluated on the strength of your
local minority participants.
Mr. Gary: I think that is good. I don't understand what Commissioner
Plummer is talking about either, but I understand what you are telling
me. I would say though,. I think we also need to be careful when we
do that also. As an example, you may find yourself excluding Blacks
in general, because they aren't local, even though you don't have a
local expertise. As an example, there may not be in Miami, a local
Black steel erector. •If he doesn't exist, then we are saying we
shouldn't use anybody from outside,
Mr. Dawkins: I disagree! Let me tell the rest of it. What we are
saying to you and that steel erector is, if he is totally himself,
then he has got nothing. But, if he comes in joint venture, with a
local firm, then the local firm has the expertise...
ld is AAN 51984
6 6
Mayor Ferre: I think you understand, and there is a middle ground in
all of this, Mr. Manager, and obviously, this cannot be chiseled in
stone, but it can be pretty firmly stated out as a policy, you know,
that obviously, if someone comes in and joint ventures with the local
steel erecting company, and has local minority participation, that that
is, in your point system, something to strengthens it.
Mr. Dawkins: And when the other people sue you and what have you,
that is what we are paying you $100,000 for, to go out there and fight.
Mr. Plummer: $107,000.
Mr. Dawkins: $107,000? Okay.
Mr. Plummer: He took the bonus.
Mayor Ferre: I would also recommend - Attorney Smith is calling my
attention that he has some comments to make on the minority aspects. I
told him that the way I perceived this, I think that we are not anywhere
near concluding anything today, and so we are going to have a continuance
of this public hearing, and in the interest of the people that are here
on revenue sharing that have been put off now for four months straight,
that I think that we owe it to these people in revenue sharing that we
get into that fairly soon.
Mr. Gary: And I will be happy to talk to Mr. Smith in my office about
his concerns.
Mayor Ferre: And so, I would say - there are four speakers who are
lined up besides Mr. Smith - Mr. Eric Messersmith, Mrs. Shubin, Sandra
Monteiro, and Mr. Yamato, who wish to speak on Watson Island, since I
think we are going to continue this public hearing, and Mr. Fannatto,
and Rosario Kennedy - oh, I am sorry! That is for revenue sharing.
Mr. Carollo: Mr. Mayor, if I may suggest, I, as I stated previously,
had to leave here at noon and my understanding is, and I agree what you
are doing there, but my understanding is that the Manager would like to
bring up the issue that I had suggested some time ago, the School Cross-
ing guards, and we could do that now, I think that is of vital importance.
Mayor Ferre: I will accept that, but I want to finish up with the
Watson Island portion of it for now. Mr. Manager, I think you have
the input from the Commission at this point. All right now, let's get
all the ideas from the Commission. Is everybody in this Commission now,
with the exception of Commissioner Carollo, who will be doing it in
person with Mr. Gary, had sufficient time to put their ideas into the
record.
Mr. Plummer: Well, the only thing that I think that we need to re-
iterate on Demetrio's idea, Mr. Gary, I want to tell you, sir, that I
fully concur with my colleague, Demetrio, and I fully expect that you
will make and comply, five days prior to the next meeting on this mat-
ter, who the members of that committee are, because I think that is
going to be very important as to whether this Commission approves or
disapproves the.entire project.
Mr. Gary: There should be a condition.
Mr. Plummer: It is not a condition., but it is, and I want to tell you,
you better understand fully that if Committee is not pleasing to this
Commission, three votes will kill the entire project. I strongly suggest
sir, that you get those names to us in advance, discuss it with us, be-
cause I am expressing Demetrio's concern of who those people are, are
very important. The Charter says sir, that you shall supply them to
us five days in advance.
Mr. Dawkins: And let the record reflect, Mr. Gary, that we are not
dictating to you who you can put on the committee, because that is your
right.
Mr. Plummer: Not at all!!!
Id 19
JAN 51984
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Mayor Ferre: All right, are there any other statements now from the
Commission? Mr. Manager, now that you have heard all of this, what is
your recommendation? That we continue this for another hearing, and
what day?
Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: I don't know what day.
Mayor Ferre: You won't be ready by Tuesday, will you? I mean, by
Thursday, the 12th? Or will you?
Mr. Plummer: I would suggest, Mr. Mayor, we go to the 19th.
Mr. Carollo: That would probably be the best date to take it then.
Mayor Ferre: That's fine with me.
Mr. Plummer: It gives him two weeks.
Mayor Ferre: Anybody have any problems with the 19th?
Mr. Carollo: Is there any way that we could change the meeting of the
12th to the week of the 16th, sometime?
Mr. Plummer: I would appreciate it. I tried to move it before. I
have got to be in Tallahassee on 12th & 13th.
Mayor Ferre: That is why we changed it in the first place.
Mr. Plummer: No, no. I tried to change it, but nobody could budge.
While we have this lull, I think we all ought to stand in one minute
of silent meditation and congratulate Demetrio on his getting married.
I am the only eligible bachelor now on this Commission!
Mayor Ferre: Well, I agree with the second portion of that statement.
There is a lot of question about the first portion. (LAUGHTER) Okay,
the 19th is fine with me.
Mr. Plummer: Can we address the problem of Commissioner Carollo about
the 12th?
Mr. Carollo: And Commissioner Plummer is well.
Mayor Ferre: I am willing to address that in a moment, but we are now
settled on the 19th?
Mr. Carollo: The 19th is fine.
Mayor Ferre: The continuance - all right, for those of you that are
here as speakers on Watson Island proposal, I think it is premature
for anybody to get in the public portion of it until we have clearer
definition of what is coming out, because at this point, I think
the matter is still rather up in the air, so I would like to ask your
indulgence, Mr. Rosichan, Mr. Ninykin, Kreitman, and the other people
from Belle Isle and Hibiscus Island and so on, if you would indulge us
and we will continue this heating on the 19th at 10:00 A.M. At that
portion we will hear again from the Manager the new criteria as he has
elaborated, and then I think it will be easier for you to comment as to
where we stand. Plummer moves that the hearing on Watson Island be now
rescheduled to 2:00 P.M. on the 18th of January in these chambers.
Mr. Plummer: That's fine.
Mayor Ferre: Carollo seconds that - is that correct? Is there further
discussion? Now, this supersedes the previous motion then. All right,
call the roll on this motion.
ANN 51984
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The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption.
MOTION NO. 84-1
A MOTION STIPULATING THAT THE PUBLIC HEARING ON
THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT OF WATSON ISLAND IS
CONTINUED TO JANUARY 18, 1984, AT 2:00 P.M.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Carollo, the motion was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
2. ESTABLISH SPECIAL MEETING FOR JANUARY.
Mayor Ferre: Now, with the authority that I have under the Charter, I
am now calling a Special Meeting on this occasion for the purposes of
discussing the January agenda of the Regular City of Miami Commission.
Now, based on that, I now recognize Commissioner Plummer to make a
motion on the meeting days for January.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I propose that the meeting date of January
12th be changed to Janaury 19th.
Mayor Ferre: An that it be properly advertised.
Mr. Plummer: Of course. All right, it has been moved and seconded.
Is there further discussion on the changes? All right, if not, call
the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption.
MOTION NO. 84-2
A MOTION RESCHEDULING THE REGULAR CITY COMMISSION
MEETING OF JANUARY 12, 1984, TO TAKE PLACE ON JAN-
UARY 19, 1984, AT 9:00 A.M.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Carollo, the motion was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
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-21 .JAN 51984
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3. DISCUSSION:
SCHOOL CROSSING GUARDS. AUTHORIZE ALLOCATION OF $60,000 F.R.S.F.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayor Ferre: Now there is a question on the guards, Commissioner Carollo
asked that we take up before we get into Revenue Sharing.
Mr. Gary: Mr. Carollo, if you recall, this City Commission voted at the
request of Ms. McAliley, a member of the School Board and a top assistant
to Mr. Britton, that the City of Miami appropriate $60,000 for them to
run a school crossing guard program. We went into negotiations in terms
of the sites as well as the cost and also a budget so that we could turn
the money over to them. At the last minute they decided to talk to the
Herald instead of talking to us and they decided that they were not going
to run the program and that the City should run the program.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, Mr. Gary, didn't that $60,000 carry with it
a proviso that it was only to be for a one year funding?
Mr. Gary: Exactly, sir.
Mr. Carollo: It did. It did carry that.
Mr. Gary: As a result of the School Board's refusal, contrary to
their promise to the City Commission that they would run the program,
we were concerned and I got the concern from the City Commission at
the time that you voted for that particular appropriation, that you
were concerned about the children crossings. So, as a stop -gap measure,
Commissioner Carollo, I authorized the P.S.A.s of the Police Department
to cover the ten additional sites over and above the four that we already
are covering to insure that there are proper coverage of school crossings.
I also instructed staff to begin the process anticipating that the City
Commission would support my recommendation that we do run the program.
I asked them to move ahead to develop a job spec for school crossing
guards and to seek applicants with the understanding that nobody would
be hired or placed on the street under a new program within the City
until this City Commission decided what it wanted to do in view of
what has happened up to now.
Mr. Carollo: Howard, let me make sure I understood what you are saying.
In the meantime what you have done is to have P.S.A.s cover those posts.
Mr. Gary: Yes, sir.
Mr. Carollo: They have been covering those posts on a daily basis
during school hours?
Mr. Gary: Yes, sir.
Mr. Carollo: That's beautiful. What I would gather that you need now
is an additional motion by this Commission to give you the leeway to
go ahead along with the program that you have formulated briefly to
us now, which is different to what the School Board had agreed to
go along with when we appropriated the money based on my motion....
Mr. Gary: That is correct.
Mr. Carollo: ....in the discussion that we had.
Mr. Gary: Yes, sir.
Mr. Carollo: Why don't you spell out the wording that you would like
on a motion and I will be more than happy to make it and Commissioner
Plummer, I am sure, will second it.
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JAN 5 1984
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Mr. Gary: I think it would be appropriate, Commissioner Carollo, that
the motion read that the City Manager is hereby authorized to utilize
this previous appropriation of $60,000 for school crossing guards to
be administered by the School Board, and now utilize those funds to
implement the program in the City of Miami.
Mr. Carollo: We have a motion.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute, Joe, I've got a slight problem with that.
As I recall, it was my understanding, Mr. Gary, that the majority thinking
of this Commission was that the School Board had an obligation for the
safety of those children. In the same way that the School Board put together
their own security force of some 40 men, I think is what it was, at a
cost of $1,000,000, that they have the same obligation of providing
traffic... whatever you want to call these new category ... and that this
$60,000 was to be an immediate emergency stop -gap measure, because they
had a budget problem. It was my understanding that this money would be
used for the purposes of immediately implementing the safety of the
children to give them the time to put the funding in their next budget.
I have a problem with the fact that there are three taxing agencies in
this community: the City, the County, and the School Board. We all have
a 10 mill cap. I have no problem with picking up their derelict neglect
-is what I must call it- of not providing. The safety of the children
should be more of a concern than air-conditioning a school. My other
concern I have expressed to you, and I will continue, that once you set
the precedent of the public schools, I don't think you can deny the
private schools, the safety of the children as it relates to traffic
is just as important to the kids attending a private school as they
are to a public. Thus, where do you end? I think this Commission has
to be fully aware of what is the total impact of this particular program
and where the funding is going to come from. For example, I can name of
the 13 schools that you have delineated, that one P.S.A. or one traffic
controller, or whatever school patrolman is not adequate, because the
school is faced on two sides with two main arterials and children come
from both sides. I think all of this has to be put into the hopper,
but bottom line to me, I am more than happy to vote for a motion to
immediately implement a program for the safety of the kids with the
full understanding that it is the responsibility of the School Board
under their taxation availability, as ours, that they must implement
their own program. Mr. Gary, we went through this on what exactly we
are discussing today, Federal Revenue Sharing Program, and that we were
spending almost $200,000 of this money to put in school resource officers.
I think you need to discuss today, and I am going to under Federal Revenue
Sharing, if that in fact is a priority. The safety of children no one
will argue with. Then $60,000 has to come out of Federal Revenue Sharing.
I don't know where else it can come from. If you presented to me, as
you said you did, a bare bones budget, you don't have $60,000 to play
with. It has to come out of Federal Revenue Sharing. I am concerned
about the long run. The long run means that the School Board is not
going to pick up that which is rightfully their responsibility under
their taxing ability, and they are going to expect us to do it. We
can't afford it.
Mr. Gary: If I may....
Mr. Carollo: Howard, excuse me for a second. I think what we need to
do is go ahead with what you stated. What J.L is saying is true, but
in the meantime we are playing with our children's lives out there.
Mr. Plummer: Have no problem.
Mr. Carollo: So what I would like to do is go ahead and allocate those
funds so you can go ahead and implement this program and get the P.S.A.s
out to do what they were hired to really do.
JA
N 51984
sl
Mayor Ferre: The funds, as I recall, are $60,000?
Mr. Plummer: Right.
Mr. Gary: Yes, sir.
Mr. Carollo: And if we have to take the School Board to court, do so.
But in the meantime, we have to protect those children out there. Let
me emphasize this again, those ten schools and ten sites that were picked
were only the bare bottoms, the most dangerous. You know, it's no where
near enough, J.L.
Mayor Ferre: I completely subscribe to the idea that we have to do
something. We can't just....
Mr. Dawkins: Mr. Mayor, I agree.
Mayor Ferre: Who's right and who's wrong is secondary.
Mr. Dawkins: I have been looking for my minutes and I'll find them
and give each one of you a copy. We told Mrs. McAliley that we would
provide the money if she were to come back to the Manager and tell the
Manager how they were going to train the people to put out there. Now
no where in the newspaper does it say Mrs. McAliley said she was going
to train these guards.
Mr. Plummer: If you want to go to that, let me tell you how it was
played on one local T.V. station last night. Mr. Gary put the P.S.A.s
at schools yesterday. One of them, because of a violent situation, was
called away, a higher priority. The local station made fun of the fact
that the P.S.A. was not on the job when there was a higher priority.
I think that was wrong. Mr. Gary did the right thing by putting them
there. I don't think that anyone would have expected not to utilize
your manpower in the best way. I think it was unfair to this City.
Mayor Ferre: What is the will of this Commission at this point?
Mr. Carollo: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we allocate the $60,000
based upon the plan that Mr. Gary has presented to us briefly now;
that we instruct the Manager to meet with the School Board personnel
and if we cannot come to an agreement, as to where the School Board
takes up the responsibility, that we instruct the Manager to take
whatever legal steps we have to to force the School Board to pick
up the responsibilities.
Mr. Plummer: I second that motion with the proviso, Joe, that $60,000
has to come from the Federal Revenue Sharing money. I don't know where
else it can come from. Is that acceptable to you?
Mr. Carollo: It is acceptable to come as long as we get it from somewhere
in our budget. The bottom line is we get it. I think you are right.
Mr. Plummer: Agreed.
Mr. Carollo: We don't have too many areas.
Mayor Ferre: Under the powers provided to me under the Charter, I am
calling a Special Commission Meeting for the purposes of discussing
the subject of school crossing guards. I accept the motion as has been
made by Commissioner Carollo and seconded by Commissioner Plummer. Is
there further discussion on this motion? Are we in legal compliance
now, Mr. City Attorney?
Mr. Garcia-Pedorsa: Yes,,sir.
Mr. Plummer: We've been in legal compliance. This was not a Special
Commission Meeting.
Mayor Ferre: It is a Special Commission Meeting.
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sl JAN 51984
Mr. Plummer: Today's meeting was not a Special Meeting, Mr. Mayor; it
was voted upon by this Commission of five members who agreed to it. It
then takes it out of the aspect of a Special Call, which then the call
has to be for a specified....
Mayor Ferre: J.L., I don't want to get into the legal argument with
you, but the Charter says that the Commission has regular meetings and
that if that it is not a regular meeting, then it is a Special Meeting,
and the way Special Meetings are called, is either I call it, or three
members of the Commission call it. Now, I'm just trying to comply with
the law so that nobody challenges this in the future. If you are telling
me that I don't have to say that into the record, then that is O.K. with
me.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I'm not going to challenge. Basically, the
Charter says that we shall have no less than two meetings. It doesn't
say we can't have five.
Mayor Ferre: J.L., this is not a regularly scheduled Commission Meeting
when this is an agenda item. Show me where the agenda says that....
Mr. Plummer: No, sir, I agree with you.
Mayor Ferre: It is not in the agenda.
Mr. Plummer: Please, we'll hassle that later.
Mayor Ferre: This is a Special Commission Meeting. It has two subjects
on it.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, according to the Charter, a Special Meeting
called by the Mayor, you are correct, this was not a Special Meeting today
called by the Mayor. It was a meeting called by the Commission. That
is the difference.
Mayor Ferre: I stand corrected. I have no problems with that. Then
this is not a special item. This is on the agenda on a normal basis
and it is legally here, so, strike my previous statement. I accept
the motion and the second. Further discussion? I think you are totally
wrong, but I could care less. I don't think it means a bit of difference,
as far as nobody challenges us legally.
Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Mr. Mayor, could I suggest that you not strike out
your comments? They are on the record. Commissioner Plummer's comments
are on the record, and either way, we are safe.
Mr. Gary: We're covered.
Mr. Plummer: We'll ask the City Attorney to give us a legal opinion.
Mayor Ferre: I could care less.
Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: You have it both ways. That's all right.
Mr. Gary: Mr. Mayor, under discussion of the motion, may I ask Commissioner
Carollo that he add to his motion, if he sees fit, that during the negotiations
with the School Board, we talked about them running them program, that
we also add a caveat that I can also negotiate that we can run the
program and they pay for it.
Mr. Carollo: I have no problem with that, Mr. Manager.
Mr. Plummer: I have no problem with that, none whatsoever. As a matter
of fact, with Joe's very forceful way of placing it, I would hope he be
a member of the committee doing the negotiation.
Mayor Ferre: Further discussion? Call the roll.
ANA-
sl JA
N 51984
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Carollo, who moved
its adoption.
MOTION 84-3
A MOTION AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER
TO ALLOCATE $60,000 FROM FEDERAL REVENUE SHARING
FUNDS (FY-'83-'84) IN CONNECTION WITH THE "SCHOOL
CROSSING GUARDS PROGRAM", WHICH PROGRAM WILL BE
ADMINISTERED BY THE CITY OF MIAMI BASED UPON PLAN
OUTLINED BY THE CITY MANAGER BEFORE THE CITY COM-
MISSION ON THIS DATE; FURTHER INSTRUCTING THE CITY
MANAGER TO ARRANGE A MEETING WITH THE DADE COUNTY
SCHOOL BOARD IN AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THEM ASSUME FULL
RESPONSIBILITY FOR FUTURE FUNDING AND OPERATION OF
THIS PROGRAM; AND FURTHER DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER
THAT IN THE EVENT NO AGREEMENT IS FORTHCOMING BETWEEN
TOO CTTY AND THE DADE COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD, TO TAKE
WHATEVER LEGAL ACTION MAY BE REQUIRED IN THE EVENT
AN AGREEMENT CANNOT BE REACHED; AND FURTHER PROVIDING
THAT IF DURING NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE DADE COUNTY
SCHOOL BOARD THEY WOULD AGREE TO FUND THE PROGRAM,
THE CITY OF MIAMI WOULD AGREE TO RUN SAME.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the motion was passed and
adopted by the following vote;
AYES: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner Demetrio Perez, Jr.
51984
4. POLICE & CLEANUP ARRANGEMENTS FOR A PARADE TO BE HELD JANUARY
12TH IN HONOR OF THE MIAMI HURRICANES.
Mr. Gary: Mr. Mayor, one little side item. For your information, there
will be a University of Miami Parade to celebrate the victory on January
12th between 11:30 and 12:00 o'clock and the County will be contribut-
ing to this and we have been asked to contribute police and sanitation
services.
Mr. Carollo: This is the date that they are going to have it?
Mr. Gary: Yes, sir.
Mr. Carollo: Besides making a motion that we would contribute the
police and sanitary service, I think it would be appropriate that I
should make the motion to declare that that day and that week - Univer-
sity of Miami Hurricane Football Team Day in the City of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: Okay, I will take them one at a time, and I think there
should be a third motion asking the Manager to look for an appropriate
street or monument, or something that would be named after Howard
Schnellenberger.
Mr. Gary: Watson Island.
Mr. Plummer: Schnellenberger Island (LAUGHTER)
Mayor Ferre: That's not a bad idea! Well, I think there ought to be
an appropriate ... I really think it has been one of the highlights of
this community and certainly in the 86 years we have existed in the
City has been that magnificent day a few days ago, so I think we need
to commemorate it and I think Schnellenberger is just as worthy of
recognition as was Don Shula and we have named them expressly after
Don Shula, so...
Mr. Carollo: Well, I think that really the most direct street to name,
even though it is not completely in the City of Miami, is to name the
highway that goes directly from the City of Miami to the University of
Miami, and has the same number that they have - Number One - U. S. 1,
Dixie Highway, that portion of the City of Miami can...
Mr. Plummer: I've got a better idea. Name it on Grand Avenue, that
runs from Miami -Coral Gables and then maybe Coral Gables will fix up
their end of Grand Avenue.
Mr. Carollo: Is there any way that portion of U. S. 1 that we could
talk to the Federal people to name it?
Mayor Ferre: I think that is something that you will have to come back
and recommend to us in an appropriate thing, so the....
Mr. Carollo: Can you check into that, Howard?
Mr. Gary: I can talk to them, yes.
Mayor Ferre:.... first motion therefore is made by Commissioner Plummer
on the expenditure of funds for the parade on the 12th. Is there a
second?
Mr. Carollo: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Second by Carollo.
Mr. Dawkins: Under discussion. Only that it be matched by the County.
Mayor Ferre: All right.
ld 27 JAN 51984
Mr. Plummer: They will move than match it.
Mayor Ferre: Is that a condition to the motion? Does the maker and
the seconder...?
Mr. Carollo: That's fine.
Mayor Ferre: Further discussion? Call the roll.
Mr. Dawkins: To match or exceed, that is what I meant to say.
Mayor Ferre: Call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption.
MOTION NO. 84-4
A MOTION AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER
TO ALLOCATE SUFFICIENT FUNDS TO COVER THE COST OF
IN -KIND SERVICES FOR POLICE AND SANITATION IN CON-
NECTION WITH A PARADE TO BE HELD ON JANUARY 12, 1984
IN CELEBRATION OF THE MIAMI HURRICANES' VICTORY AT
THE ORANGE BOWL.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Carollo, the motion was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
5. DECLARE WEEK OF JANUARY 9 - 15 MIAMI HURRICANES NUMBER ONE WEEK.
Mayor Ferre: The second motion is Commissioner Carollo's, which is
declaring the week of January 9 through the 15th as Miami Hurricanes
week. Is there a second?
Mr. Dawkins: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Second by Dawkins. Further discussion? Call the roll?
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Carollo, who
moved its adoption.
MOTION NO. 84-5
A MOTION OFFICIALLY DECLARING THE WEEK OF JANUARY 9TH
THROUGH 15TH AS: "MIAMI HURRICANES NO. 1 WEEK" IN
THE CITY OF MIAMI.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Dawkins, the motion was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None AN 51984
ld
ABSENT: None 2
v
LD
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute, on that one, Mr. Mayor, I hope on that
proclamation it will be fully understood and spelled out that it is not
the University of Coral Gables and it is not the University of Dade
County. It is in fact, the University of Miami.
6. DIRECT CITY MANAGER TO RESEARCH A STREET, PLAZA OR PACK TO BE
NAMED IN HONOR OF COACH HOWARD SCHNELLENBERGER.
Mayor Ferre: The third motion is made by Commissioner Plummer, seconded
by Commissioner Perez that the Manager research and come back with a
proper street, or plaza, park, or other memorial to be named after
Howard Schnellenberger for his magnificant achievement after five years
as coach of the University of Miami.
Mr. Carollo: If I could include in that motion that the Manager give
priority to the portion of U. S. 1 that falls within the City of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: With a priority, that portion of U. S. 1, starting at
the end of I-95 Expressway to the City limits, which is to LeJeune Road.
All right, further discussion? Call the roll on that one.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption.
MOTION NO. 84-6
A MOTION INSTRUCTING THE CITY MANAGER TO RESEARCH A
SUITABLE STREET, PLAZA OR PARK TO BE NAMED AFTER THE
"MIAMI HURRICANES" COACH SCHNLLENBERGER, AND FURTHER
DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO INQUIRE OF U. S. AND
STATE OFFICIALS IF THE SECTION OF U. S. 1, ALSO KNOWN
AS "DIXIE HIGHWAY", BEGINNING AT THE DOWN RAMP OF I-95
WESTWARD TO THE CITY LIMITS (LeJeune Road) COULD BE
RENAMED IN HONOR OF COACH SCHNELLENBERGER.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Perez, the motion was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
.230
AN 51981
Id
7. INSTRUCT CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE RESOLUTION OF CONDOLENCES IN
CONNECTION WITH DEATH OF POLICE OFFICER ROBERT ZORE.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, if I may, and I hate to start off the first
meeting of the year this way, but I think it has to be done, that this
Commission instruct the City Attorney to prepare the appropriate reso-
lution expressing the sorrow of this Commission at the passing of a
police officer who was killed in the line of duty - Robert Zore, and
that he come back in the next Commission meeting with the appropriate
resolution to be passed and forwarded on to the family, expressing our
sorrow at the loss of an officer.
Mayor Ferre: There is a motion and a second - further discussion?
Call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption.
MOTION NO. 84-7
A MOTION INSTRUCTING THE APPROPRIATE CITY DEPARTMENT TO
PREPARE AN OFFICIAL EXPRESSION OF CONDOLENCES TO THE
FAMILY OF POLICE OFFICER ROBERT ZORE, WHO WAS -KILLED IN
THE LINE OF DUTY.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Carollo, the motion was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
THEREUPON, THE CITY COMMISSION WENT INTO A BRIEF
RECESS AT 12:07 P.M., RECONVENING AT 12:14 P.M.,
with all members of the Commission found to be
present except for: Commissioner Dawkins and
Commissioner Carollo.
8. DISCUSSION F.R.S.F. - FY 1983-84; PUBLIC HEARING - REPRESENTATION
FROM SOCIAL SERVICE AGENCIES - INTENT OF PRIORITIES OF AVAILABLE
FUNDS.
Mayor Ferre: The Chair will recognize you at this point to make what-
ever comments or presentations you may have and then we will then ask
the Commission to make statements and we will open it up for the
public hearing.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I would hope...I don't know...Dena, you were
present that you must take from this allocation now $60,000 for the
School Crossing guards.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Mr. Manager? Dena Spillman.
Ms. Dena Spillman: I want to just give you a brief summary of your
actions to date, Commissioners. As of now, we have funded our on-
going social service agencies through January 31st, with the exception
ld 30 AN 51984
0 0
of Centro Caribeno and with the addition of Martin Technical School,
Centro Mater, United Family and Children's Services and we have in-
creased the allocation for the Industrial Home for the Blind. Based on
that, we have committed over $544,000 of our total of $1,120,000 in
Federal Revenue Sharing. Now, if you add the $60,000 that we just dis-
cussed, Commissioner Plummer, we have committed over $600,000 in funds.
This leaves and uncommitted balance of approximately $515,000, and that
brings us to a deficit of $261,000. If we take out Aspira, as was recom-
mended by Staff, our deficit is about $230,000. Commissioner Carollo is
not here, so I will not respond to the State Attorney's report. Com-
missioners, at the last meeting...
Mr. Plummer: The monitor...
Ms. Spillman: We can discuss it, it is in your memo, if you want me
to talk about it, I will.
Mr. Plummer: In other words, about the monitoring of the programs..
Ms. Spillman: The issue has been taken care of.
Mr. Plummer: Well, that is what we were told before.
Ms. Spillman: You asked that we analyze each project according to the
following priorities - food, medical and children in need. The chart
on Page 8 categorizes each proposal according to the priorities that
you suggested. Clearly, the first priority has been to fund food re-
lated projects, as was your first priority and you have acted in that
manner.
Mayor Ferre: And food related and associated, for example, transporta-
tion and getting the old people to...
Ms. Spillman: Well, we didn't include transportation. If you add that
in, it is even a higher percentage of...
Mayor Ferre: Well, if you remember, I very specifically went on record,
or Plummer did, I forget who, saying that it isn't just the putting of
the food in somebody's mouth, but it is getting them there to be
able to be fed.
Ms. Spillman: Okay, i won't go through pages 3 and 4 outlined for you,
of the food providing agencies, what percentage of F.R.S. money is used
for food. It goes from anywhere from "0"% to 90% of City money.
Mayor Ferre: Of F.R.S. what?
Ms. Spillman: Funds which go to food, and food providing agencies.
In other words, some agencies may receive F.R.S., but they use it for
support services and other funds are used for the food.
Mr. Plummer: Well, we can decipher that.
Ms. -Spillman: A1,1 right, the Mayor requested that we make sure that
all agencies serve City of Miami residents. That will be a strong
contractual requirement as it has been and we will monitor that. We
have budget information on each agency and Commissioner Perez, you
specifically requested information on the youth coop project. In
that regard, we find the program to be a viable program if funds can
be made available, which as you know, is a problem. You also asked
about Southwest Social Services and it appears to be viable. The
agency states that it has negotiated a lease to locate within the
City of Miami. They are currently not in the City of Miami. We also
would like to say that Little Havana Activities and Nutrition Center
has requested to provide the same service, if you decide to add addi-
tional funds for that service. This is another additonal program.
On Page 6 you will find the summaries of everything. If you look in
Column 2, you will find the agencies which have requested additional
funds and we did discuss this a bit at the last meeting. Action
Community Center, Allapattah Community Action, Coconut Grove Family
Clinic, J.E.S.C.A., Little Havana Activity Center, and those are the
existing agencies, those who have requested additonal funding. That
ld 31 ,JA% 51984
11
is where we stand as of this moment.
tions which you have at this time.
I would be happy to answer any ques-
Mr. Plummer: Let me ask you a question.
Mayor Ferre: I will start with our senior member.
Mr. Plummer: Let me ask me what you are doing, Dena, if anything. As
you know, this Commission went and broke ground for a new community
center for Allapattah. I went to visit the program of Orlando Urra just
before Christmas and I forget - how many are you feeding there now -
about 300? Now, when this new center is built, that program will be
transferred over to the new center, in which they can accomodate twice
that number. Now, the question that I have - are we looking to the
future of knowing that we are going to be fully utilizing that program
and making the funds, which as you know, my priority Number 1 is for
food. When will that center be finished?..In this budget year or the
next budget year?
Ms. Spillman: It will be the next budget year?
Mr. Plummer: Okay, are we addressing the anticipation of that opening
for the next year? In other words, I would hate to think that this
Commission has gone to a ground breaking dedication. We are building
a structure, and what I consider to be the main purpose is feeding
people and here we build a beautiful structure, but we don't have money
for the food. I am just raising that as a question.
(INAUDIBLE COMMENT)
Mr. Plummer: Yes, I want the answer.
Mr. Gary: I think the intent of building the building itself took into
consideration that as funds became available, and opportunities became
available in the future, that we could expand that program, so the bot-
tom line becomes that this City Commission has to decide, first of all,
if they have available funds, to expand that program in the future,
either through Federal resources that may be available, or through
Federal Revenue Sharing. I can say right now that the City Commission
is going to have some tough decisions to make.
Mr. Plummer: Tougher!
Mr. Gary: Tougher! I think in terms of what you have contributed to
Mr. Urra's program, I think has gone beyond most programs, in terms
of contributions. We have given additional money every year - he had
a new car and everything...
Mr. Plummer: Well...
Mr. Gary: Let me just finish, if I may. I think you have got to look
at...
Mr. Plummer: You are finished, you just don't know it, but go ahead!
Mr. Gary: I'm finished!
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Gary, let me tell you something, one thing that this
man in the center chair, and the two end chairs became very obvious dur-
ing our campaign, and I think that we made commitments during that cam-
paign. Mr. Gary, we have got to address the different neighborhoods.
As you know, probably one df the main priorities this year, of an over-
looked area is Flagami, west end. We will be entertaining proposals
very shortly about a community center in the Flagami west end area, okay?
Now, I think that we have got to be fair. I think we do programs in
Little Havana. We are doing programs in Edison Park, Edison Center.
We are doing programs in Allapattah. I really don't know of programs
that exist in Flagami or west of Leieune, okay? Now, I think what I am
really saying is, that we have got to look at this with an equal distri-
bution, considering the neighborhood. I would hate to think that you
misunderstood this Commission when we allocated the money for the Allah-
pattah Community Center, that we were not making any other decision than
to expand the program.
ld .JA N 51964
i
Mr. Gary: Let me just correct myself. The building that would be built
will be built to accomodate the program as it exists now. That is all
the money we have. It won't be able to accomodate twice the size of the
program.
Mr. Plummer: No, you are wrong, because where he is presently, and I
asked the question when I saw the size of the dining room. How do you
feed 300, and the way is very simple. They have two feedings, okay?
So, yes, it will. It can go from a 300 presently to a 400, okay?
Mr. Gary: That is not the building we are building.
Mr. Plummer: Then you are not utilizing your structure.
Mr. Dawkins: I have one question.
Mr. Gary: I thought you were going to assume it did.
Mr. Dawkins: I have one question. You sat here and heard us say to
find $60,000 for the School Crossing. Will that $60,000 be added to
$231,205 deficit to give us $291,205 deficit?
Ms. Spillman: Yes, sir, if you...
Mr. Plummer: No, no, no! Go ahead. That was not my understanding.
You know, let's understand. This thing is no deficit. This thing is
deficit! Now, Dena you did this (excuse me, don't take.this personally,
okay?) Commission a disservice when you start talking about deficits.
This Commission set its priorities. This Commission told you how much
you had to work with. This Commissioner never_ spoke to going beyond
that amount of money. When you start talking deficit, you are talking
the Federal government and they are the only ones that I know that can
talk and end in a deficit.. We cannot.
Mr. Gary: In all due deference to Dena, I think what she has done is
appropriate in that you asked for information. You gave very little
guidance and what this is attempting to do is to give you a "what if"
analysis. If you continue with your policies, then this is what is
going to happen.
Mr. Dawkins: If we take the $60,000 from the $1,120,000, we will have...
Mayor Ferre: There is not that much left.
Mr. Gary: What you ought to do is take it out of the $575,000.
Mr. Plummer: $575,000, because that is all the monies that is left.
- Ms. Spillman: Commissioner Dawkins.
Mr. Dawkins: So, you take $60,000 from that.
Mr. Gary: Leave it alone.
Mr. Plummer: Applied evenly across the board. It has got to be!
Mr. Gary: Do you understand? You are taking it away from the available
cash of $575,000, therefore whatever is left has got to be allocated to
everybody else.
Mayor Ferre: Let me go over where we are, okay? It is really very,
very simple to all of you here in the audience. We had $1,200,000 in
Federal Revenue Sharing. Over the years, we said no new projects, so
that we don't get into this what we are into now. What happened was
that we said "okay", we are going to reopen it for new projects, and
for the $1,120,000, because F.R.S. has gone down, but we have $3,000,000
worth of requests, and because most of the requests, if not all of them
are worthy requests, and because the feeding is worthy, and legal ser-
vices is worthy, and H.A.C.A:D. is worthy, and Reverend, your project
is worthy and everybody's projects are worthy, we can't bite the bullet,
so we keep putting it off, every month. We will say "All right, we
don't have time and I've got to go catch a plane" - Carollo has got an
ld
33
JAN 51984
.0
appointment, the other guys going to do this, and so we keep - we put
it off in October because there is an election coming up. We put it
off in November because we didn't have time. We put it off in December
because I had to go catch a plane at 7:00 o'clock that evening. Now
we are in January. In the meantime, four months have gone by and that
$1,120,000 is now down to $570,000, okay? And now, this morning be-
cause of the School Crossing crisis, we chipped $60,000 off of that,
so you are down to just over $500,000, and for that $500,000, there is
well over $2,000,000 worth of requests. There is no way we can do it!
I mean, that is like fitting the camel into the needle's eye. There is
no way in God's world that we can satisfy a request of Little Havana,
Allapattah, Overtown, the new project out there in west of the City,
Legal Services, on and on - all of them worthy projects with $500,000.
You know, we are back to where we were 3 or 4 years ago when we got into
this mess and finally after going through 2 or 3 of these meetings,
Plummer, or somebody on this Commission then said, "No more! We stay
with what we have, no new projects, we fund what we have and we are
not going to take any new projects. Now...
Mr. Plummer: Would you expand about that camel and the needle? I
lost something!
Mayor Ferre: It has something to do with Atlantis Island! (LAUGHTER)
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, in accordance with what you are saying, Mr.
Manager, I have talked with the people of the South Florida Theatre
Company and explained to them that I felt that they would be more
appropriately out of revenue sharing and into festivals, which is what
they have. They have agreed, and they are withdrawing their request
here this morning and I would ask that that matter be referred over to
the Festival Committee for consideration. On the record, I made no
promises to them, that they would get any funding over there. I more
or less told them that they definitely are not going to get it here,
but at least they could be in the fight to fight for the dollar, so
they are requesting, and I hope that will be granted to transfer over.
Ms. Spillman: Can I give you about two clarifications that will assist
you a little bit. The School Crossing Guard program would only require
$40,000 in this budget year, because it is so late in the year already.
Mr. Plummer: So that there is no misunderstanding, that money has
nothing to do with the year. It is a one lump sum grant to get the
emergency problem addressed and as Commissioner Carollo very well put
it, that if the School Board doesn't pick up their responsibility, that
we take them to court and force them to do it.
Ms. Spillman: Okay, I stand corrected on that. Also, there was some
discussion at the, last meeting on your part of discontinuing ASPIRA.
If that occurs, you will save $50,000. Again, a discussion did take
place. I wanted you to be aware of that. We have not had a final
decision on that.
Mayor Ferre: Well, let me say something with regards to ASPIRA. I
didn't do this at the last Commission meeting, because on that same
day, Mendez had died, you know, and I thought it was just going to be
a little bit too over dramatic for me to say "On behalf of our friend
(I think he was' a friend to all of us) Jose Mendez, I think we ought to
do ASPIRA now and let it go at that". I thought that would have just
been too over dramatic, so I didn't do it, but now I am going to do it,
and I think that ASPIRA is a project that I do think is really deserv-
ing of serious consideration. It is a project that we funded for many
years. It has problems. We ought to help them work out of their
problems and put the conditions, but I think it would be tragic for us
to lose this at this time. That is just one man's opinion.
Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, let me tell you where this one Commis-
sioner is. I would like to set a predicate, and you know I will abide
by the decision of this Commission, that we are going to stick to the
total of $515,000 and we will not exceed that. Now, I think that is
Number one. I just don't think that this Commission - somewhere we
have got to take a stand, and somewhere we have got to say "no". Now,
it is just that simple, and I would hope that this Commission would
take a stand and say that the dollars we have are the dollars we are
ld 34 AN 5 t984
P
11
going to work with. Now, this is really no different than what we said to
the Staff six months ago, no new projects, but we deviated, and that is
why we are in trouble. If we had stuck to that - no new projects - every-
one taking a very slight reduction, there would have been no problem. We
would have not been in the stew that we are in, but we did. I would hope...
Mr. Mayor, I would make a motion, whether or not it passes, that this
Commission will not allocate more than the funds that are available, as
indicated by Staff at $515,000 for the remaining portion of the budget,
and I so move that.
Mr. Dawkins: I second.
Mr. Perez: Before I second anything...
Mayor Ferre: There is a motion and a second - under discussion, Commis-
sioner Perez.
Mr. Perez: Okay, for discussion, I would like to clarify how do we have
left over $231,000?
Mr. Plummer: That is a deficit.
Mr. Perez: How do you think that we can cover those funds.
Mr. Plummer: Each one will have to take a cut, or what you are going
to have to do is to go to some kind of a priority and...
Mr. Dawkins: Well, lottery is illegal, J. L.
Mr. Plummer: Well, robbing banks is illegal! Look, all I am saying to
you is that we have "V number of dollars to work with. That's it!
Whether you want to say it is politically, administratively, intelligent-
ly, whatever priority you set, you have got to set a bottom line, and
you have got to work within it! How do you say "no" to these other
programs? You have got programs here that as far as I am concerned are
super programs. Let me bring to your attention one thing. I won't
name, but his initials are Raul Martinez, who brought to my attention
that the City of Hialeah (What is it, the third largest City in Metro -
Dade County?).....
Mayor Ferre: Second.
Mr. Plummer....second, do not spend ten cents on social programs. Well,
I don't agree with that!
Mayor Ferre: That is the way we used to be.
Mr. Plummer: Okay, they do not spend ten cents of their F.R.S. Now,
you know, what I am saying to you, I want to help! And I want to help
first and foremost the needy. Now, you know, the City of Orlando - let
me give you an example there. In their F.R.S. money, they fund you for
one year only. They give you the money to start up your program. They
give you the time, and the effort to prove yourself, and then you have
got to provide your own funding.
Mayor Ferre: How do you feed somebody for one year only?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, they have to go out and get other funds.
Mayor Ferre: From whom?
Mr. Plummer: How do we stop all of these new programs from coming in,
all great programs - all of them are great programs!
Mayor Ferre: How do you tell Tacolcy, J. L., or how do you tell Little
Havana, or so and so, we are going to give you moeny now, for hot meals,
or for whatever programs and next year, you have got to go out and get
your own money. You understand?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor...
Id 35 AN 51984
Mayor Ferre: .... No, I'm sorry - you have got to get Eastern Airlines
to give you the...
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me - Mr. Mayor, I did not say I was advocating
that. Don't misunderstand me. I am saying that is what the City of
Orlando does. That is what the City of Hialeah does, and you know, I
am saying that they are on the other extreme of the spectrum.
Mayor Ferre: Let me tell you what I think.
Mr. Plummer: We are on the far other idea of the spectrum. There has
got to be a middle ground!
Mayor Ferre: Let me tell you what I am in favor of doing, okay? Let
me tell you what the problem is, and this is probably the first time I
have really said this, but we have got to be brutally honest about this.
What happens, and I was not on the Commission, so I will tell you the
story of the time when I was not either or a Commissioner or Mayor. You
were on the Commission by this time. Dave Kennedy was the Mayor, and I
remember the time, when we went through this process and at the end of
the session, somebody said "Well, there is $73,000 left unallocated,"
and somebody got up and said "I've got a program that can use that
$73,000". Dave recognized him, and that was the allocation. The next
day there was a blistering, terrible editorial in the Miami Herald
written by Don Shoemaker. I remember it vividly because he called me
to ask my opinion. I was then not a member of the Commission, nor
Mayor - this was before '73.
Mr. Plummer: That is called the good old days.
Mayor Ferre: I have been now Mayor for over 10 years and every single
year, let me tell you what happens. At one time, Plummer said "Don't
get into social services. It is Metro's responsibility, we shouldn't
get into it". The reason we got into it is because we got Federal Revenue
Sharing, okay? And somebody came here and got to that microphone and
they said, "How can you spend money in improving streets in Coconut
Grove and not take care of the social problems", and so on and so forth.
Gibson was sitting right here and said "Absolutely, that is correct,
and we have to have a conscience, and Mendez got up and he said "Well,
if you are going to do it for the Blacks in Coconut Grove, what are you
going to do for the Puerto Ricans in Wynwood?", and we got into it. And
we have been into it ever since. Well, let me tell you what happens.
We asked Staff. Staff gets 7% or 8% of all these monies to analyze -
10%. They spend $100,000 going through these programs. Invariably, we
pay attention to about 60% or 70% of what Staff recommends, and then we
start, not in recent years, because we froze it, but three or four years
ago, when we were still involved in finagling this thing around, Gibson
had his thing that he wanted - Plummer always wants to protect Centro
Mater and the Catholic Services and downtown - Lacasa always had his
preferences as to who his friends were - and the other guy had his
preferences, but that is where we are at! So, what happens is this,
that we end up getting to the political process, you see, because there
are people here who were very good to some of us during the campaign
process, and feel that perhaps we ought to look seriously at their
applications, or it gets involved in the politics. And I think maybe
it is really time, J. L., for me to revive something that I had made
a statement about 10 years ago, and that is, we cannot get out of the
social service business, but I think that perhaps we ought to get away
from the political process in all of this, and the only way we can do
that is to turn over the decision making to someone who is qualified
and does that as a regular basis, and I am talking about the United
Way. That is just my personal opinion, and perhaps maybe what we ought
to do, we can't do it this year, because I think it is too late this
year, but in my opinion, I do not like to be involved in the poverty.
Unfortunately, in New York, they used to call it something else. They
used to call it poverty pimps and I don't want to get in the poverty
pimping business. I think it is terrible thing, and I think all we
end up doing is antagonizing people, and creating divisions and problems
and nobody is ever happy. I have never seen a process that is painful,
that takes as long, and I don't think there is a member of this Commis-
sion that can deny that at one point or another, he or she, including
ld o6 .JAN 51984
0
6
going back to Mrs. Range, and I don't see her around any more, but when
Mrs. Range was on the Commission, don't come telling me that we don't
get pressures from our different peer constituency. I am not saying for
this year, but I am saying for the future, perhaps we ought to get it
completely away from the realms of the electoral process.
Mr. Dawkins: Mr. Mayor, along the lines of what J. L. said, I am going
to read the reason why we are where we are. Allapattah Community Agency
requested $27,825. 12% or 30% will be spent on food. $24,482 - 62% on
personnel. First United Methodist Church, their total budget is $94,893.
40% of the total budget is for food, and they only ask us for $10,000.
Haitian -American Community Association, $141,810, of which 39% is for
emergency food program. 38% is for lawyers, and 14% in etcetera.
J. M. B. Scott Community asked for $35,591 - 90% is for food. Little
Havana Activity and Nutrition Center, their budget, they requested
$109,974 - $20,276 for food, which represents 18% of the total funds
requested - 39% for food, 50% for personnel costs. St. Dominic - $114,614
requested - $36,691 for food, 32% of the budget, and it goes on. Miami
Jewish for the hospital, $108,465, of which 15% would be for line items,
and 70% would be requested to go to other areas. Southwest Social Ser-
vices, they asked for $64,000 - $17,120 for food, 27%. And we can go
on and the reason why we don't get more mileage out of it, that the
majority of the money that we are giving is not being used for food - it
is being used for personnel.
Mr. Plummer: Well, let me go back and address one thing that the Mayor
said, and I want to take very much the opposite view. I -would be totally
opposed to turning this over to United Way. Those people are here asking
us for money! They can't even administer what they have got. They are
coming asking a City who is running into a deficit problem, to give them
$50,000 to help run their program. How in the hell are they going to
run our program if they can't run their own? I would be totally opposed
to that. Now, if you want to try and remove and keep in house the politics
of the event, that is a different ball game. Mr. Mayor, there is no way
that I know of - don't sit here and make me believe that there is no
politics in United Way. Those are appointed people of the community. I
don't know of any agency in this City - this county, that doesn't have
politics involved. It is the way of life. Whether it is the Off-street
Parking Authority, or the Downtown Development Authority, they are
political appointees. United Way - these are all people. Human beings
are subject to pressure. Now, what I think we have got to do, we have
got to take a stand. There is only "X" number of dollars, and this
Commission has got to set its priorities and let the chips fall where
they may, and fully understand that there are going to be people who are
going to be told "no". I made a statement the other day which, if we are
not there this year, we definitely are next. We have now reached the
point - which hungry people are we going to tell "no". That is a sad
day! Now, I agree, as the Mayor speaks about, problems that we are
creating. We thought it was a landfall when this F.R.S. came down, and
we thought it was a great thing when they put a provision that 10% of
your money could be used for social programs, but little did we realize
that after establishing these great programs, that they would pull the
funding rug from underneath of us and throw us into absolute disaster,
and that is where we are, because people have become accustomed to re-
ceiving, and now, when you are going to have to take it away, we can't
feed everybody! We can't house everybody. We can't give everybody a
job. It is just not within the purview or the funding ability of this
City, this County, or this State. I think we have got to take that
stand. I hope the motion, you know, that I made today - I realize that
it is not going to be a popular motion, but we have only got so much.
Mr. Mayor, I say to you conversely, that if we double that amount today,
that we have got that I have made into a motion, there are still going
to have to be some people that are going to be told "no", that we can't
do it. Dena, if I am not mistaken, the provision is still within the
Federal guidelines that you cannot exceed 10% for social programs.
Ms. Spillman: That is C. D., not r.R.S.
Mr. Plummer: I am mistaken - all right then I am sorry. I stand
corrected. All I am saying is, there has got to be a bottom line.
ld 37 1984
AN 5
0
Where is it? I am trying to establish it. The rest of the Commission
doesn't agree?
Mayor Ferre: Let's get to it.
Mr. Perez: Mr. Mayor, I think that this Commission has to keep the
control of the F.R.S. project. I think that we can't transfer to
United Way, nor any other individual, but anyhow, I think that for
next year I would like to do a study on to propose the possibility of
appointing a committee of five members - something on the kind of
procedures that we have with the bidding of the City in order that
they receive all the recommendation from*the -Staff, and after
they make proper recommendations to the City Commission, but they have
the opportunity to discuss all the projects with the community groups
and to make this other proposition available to the Commission, but I
would like to second this motion.
Mayor Ferre: What motion?
Mr. Perez: The motion of Commissioner Plummer.
Mayor Ferre: Repeat your motion so I can...
Mr. Plummer: My motion was, Mr. Mayor, that this Commission establish
the remaining portion for the fiscal year, at the $515,000, and we will
not exceed that allocation.
Mayor Ferre: And there is a second to that motion. Further discussion?
Mr. Dawkins: Under discussion, all we have been saying up here all day
is semantics and I think it is semantics when the Mayor said that give
it to the United Way. I think what he is saying is the same thing that
I have been voicing ever since I have been up here, and he is saying
simply that we have got to find an agency, or we have got to let Staff
be the agency that recommends to us what to do. So now, whether that
is United Way, whether that is Staff, but we have got to stop letting
Staff sit down and come up with these recommendations and we sit up
here and as the Mayor says, play politics!
Mr. Plummer: My good friend, Commissioner Dawkins.
Mr. Dawkins: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Sometimes it is bad being here too long. For 14 years,
my good friend, I have heard that same statement made. Maurice and I
remember the year we took a blood oath, that whatever Staff came out
with, we would approve! We were going to get out of this chaos! We
were going to eliminate these problems! There were the professionals!
Do what we are paying them to do. How many years did I hear that?
Now, unless you go and get five priests and cloister who will give them
the money so that they can allocate it before it comes back here, you
are kidding yourself!
Mr. Dawkins: Why do they have to be priests? I want a Baptist minister!
Mr. Plummer: Fine, get five clergymen and cloister - give them the
money and let them allocate it and come back and report to us what
they did - yes you might do it that way, okay?
Mayor Ferre: Okay, let's get on with it.
Mr. Dawkins: All right, call the roll!
Mayor Ferre: There is a motion on the floor. Call the roll.
Mr. Plummer: That we will not exceed the $515,000.
ld JAN 51984
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption.
MOTION NO. 84-8
A MOTION DECLARING THE INTENT OF THE CITY COMMISSION
TO SPEND NO MORE THAN THE REMAINING ALLOCATION OF
FEDERAL REVENUE SHARING FUNDS FOR FY - 183-184, SAID
ALLOCATION BEING $515,000, AS INDICATED BY STAFF.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Dawkins, the motion was
passed and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
ON ROLL CALL:
Mr. Dawkins: Mr. Plummer, that $515,000 is to reduced by the $60,000?
Mr. Plummer: No, sir. That is reduced by the $60,000. We have already..
that's...
Mr. Dawkins: Okay - "yes".
Mayor Ferre: Before I vote, Mr. Manager, there is no other identifiable
money at this point that you have identified.
Mr. Gary: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: I have no choice but to vote "yes".
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me. Now, I want to make sure we understand. When
the Mayor asks you, Mr. Manager, that there are no other identifiable
sources...
Mayor Ferre: We've have cut down departments.
Mr. Plummer: Well, okay, but there are other amounts of F.R.S. that
could have been reallocated, but they have already been allocated.
Mr. Gary: So you can't reallocate them.
Mr. Plummer: Well, don't bet you on that one now.
Mayor Ferre: Now, look...
Mr. Plummer: Don't ever put a scalpel in my hand.
Mayor Ferre: Now, the point is, that once you make a legal commitment,
there is no way you can start reversing that.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, we have not made any legal commitments except
in two areas.
Mayor Ferre: There is also a legal limitation, isn't there, about the
10%?
Mr. Plummer: No budget is written in stone, Mr. Gary. There is nothing
this afternoon that says we can't reduce your salary by $7,000, even
though it is in the budget.
Mr. Gary: Court may have a problem with that.
Mayor Ferre: I think you know...
39
JAN 5198
ld
or
Mr. Plummer: That's all right, you will be on the outside looking in.
Mayor Ferre: The point of the matter is, what percentage of F.R.S.
Dena, are we spending on social programs?
Ms. Spillman: The Manager would have to...
Mr. Plummer: Well, what is our F.R.S.? Around $11,000,000?
Ms. Spillman: I don't know what it is.
Mr. Gary: What was the question?
Mayor Ferre: Question is, what percentage of our total budget are we
spending on F.R.S.?
Mr. Gary: About 10%.
Mayor Ferre: Isn't that the legal limit?
Mr. Plummer: No, that is in C. D. That was the guideline, though, that
we used in applied towards the F.R.S.
Mayor Ferre: In other words, there is no legal limitation as to what
percentage of F.R.S. we used in social programs. Is that correct?
Ms. Spillman: That is correct.
Mr. Gary: That is correct.
Mr. Plummer: Well, there is no limit, except, as I recall very well
from being told - that the people up in Atlanta, when it comes to next
year's allocation, will look at how you spend your money.
Mayor Ferre: Well, there is a formula, and they can't depart from the
formula.
Mr. Gary: Well, no, that is not the case. What is happened, I would
say the last six or seven years - I will even go back ten years, there
have been court suits in various cities that said that a lot of cities
were utilizing monies that were not benefiting the total community, and
as a result, cities get around that by putting it in their general fund,
and allocating the money for police, fire, because everybody receives
those services.
Mr. Dawkins: That is my question to you, Mr. Gary. What do we use
revenue sharing funds for?
Mr. Gary: We use 90% of it for police, fire and sanitation, and the
other 10% for social service programs.
Mr. Dawkins: So if we were to allocate more money to social services,
then fire, police and etcetera, would have to come from where? The
General Fund?
Mr. Gary: Well, it is not as simple as that. It would have to come
from the General Fund, which requires that you either cut other ser-
vices, such as parks, recreation, or you can cut police, fire and
sanitation.
Mr. Plummer: Or you can eliminate people!
Mr. Dawkins: Or raise taxes!
Mr. Plummer: Can't raise taxes - we are at the maximum.. You know, I
hope that everyone sitting in this audience, because the basic under-
lying thought in my mind, I.hope each and every one of you remembers
this when we start talking about Proposition One. I hope each and every
one of you - I am going Saturday for the first task force meeting on
Proposition One, and if you think times are tight right now, if Propo-
sition One passes, it will almost completely eliminate social programs,
ld 40 AN 51984
0 0
but it will address things as reducing our police and fire by 20%, our
sanitation by 20% of what we have existing today. I just hope that
people of this community, if that is what they vote for (I can learn to
live with it - my salary has been the same since 1949, and doesn't af-
fect my pocketbook). What I am saying is, I just hope that this message
is getting across to the community, that this is what you want, this is
what you are going to get, and this is what you are going to have, be-
cause I think Proposition One will seriously, seriously, damage every
city in the State of Florida. Mr. Mayor, I think we were in the middle
of a roll call - did you vote?
Mayor Ferre: Yes. Roll call is over.
Mr. Plummer: Okay.
Mayor Ferre: Where we are now therefore, that we are now limited to
$515,000 and now comes the difficult decision of allocation of those
monies, so before we get into any public segment, the Chair will open
up for any statements that any member of the Commission wishes to make.
I have already made one basic statement with regards to ASPIRA and you
can make your statements. Tell me what you want to do.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let me just express my opinion for what it is
worth. It is the same opinion I have expressed for 14 years. I will
tell you exactly where I am. I would like to send it to Staff. I
think that this Commission should set the priorities instructing Staff
that we are going to go, for example, food as a number one priority;
medical as a second priority...
Mayor Ferre: Wait a minute, please. Let me understand - when you say
food, do you include food and the other things that go with food?
Mr. Plummer: Yes, sir, to provide a meal without the people being able
to get it is not providing a meal.
Mayor Ferre: I need to clarify for the record, J. L.
Mr. Plummer: Certainly. Yes, sir - meals and accessory items, such as
transportation. Medical, and then give Staff a free hand to whatever
is left over to be allocated to the other programs.
Mr. Gary: That is on Page 8.
Mr. Plummer: No, it is not on Page 8, because we are now reduced by
another $60,000.
Mr. Gary: Well, I think...
Mr. Plummer: And the Staff did not put Page 8 together with those
priorities.
Mayor Ferre: I just don't think that we can continue to put this
decision off month after month, because you know, pretty soon what we
are down to is $100,000.
Mr. Dawkins: I agree! I agree with the Mayor, we have got to bite the
bullet and do it now, because we have had these people come down here
six or seven times, and I just don't...I am not coming back again! I
will not be here at the next meeting, and I am going to tell everybody
out there now, the next time we have F.R.S. discussions, I will not be
here. So, if we don't vote on it today, I am sorry, it is not that I
am not with you, it is just that I am not going to have you continue
to come down here and I continue to come down here for a farce.
Mr. Plummer: Well, I see the only alternative... and I don't disagree
with you! I am as tired as these people are of coming down here and
listening to it, okay? ,I don't disagree with that. The only other
way I know that you can evolve with that situation is take the remaining
monies, see how much a reduction in percentage that is, and apply it
across the board. I don't know how else you can do it.
Id 41 JAN 51984
or
Mayor Ferre: All right, out of courtesy to all these people that are
here and a lot of them that want to speak, I've got to give them - this
is a public hearing, and they have an opportunity to speak. I can't
deny them that right.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I don't know how these people can speak to an
issue that has not been first developed by this Commission.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I am willing...
Mr. Plummer: Now, how can a man speak to "X" number of dollars when he
might be getting "X" less, or even possibly, "X" more.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, I will recogize you for the purposes of mak-
ing a motion. If you get a second we will put it to a vote and then
we will proceed from there. Now, having done that, then we can proceed
with hearing these people speak, or we can hear them speak, but what I
am telling you as the Chairperson of this Board, this a public hearing.
Mr. Plummer: All right, sir. Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Ferre: And I cannot let - you know, there are people who want
to speak, and I can't deny them that right!
Mr. Plummer: I would never do such, but I think for them to speak
intelligently, they have got to know what they are speaking to!
Mayor Ferre: I think they have been listening very carefully to what
you and others...
Mr. Plummer: Well, let me try a motion on it for size.
Mayor Ferre: All right!
Mr. Plummer Mr. Mayor, I would make a motion that Staff be instructed
to immediately develop the monies that we have, reduction percentage
wise and apply that reduction to across the board on each and every
program.
Mr. Gary: Each and every program based on what?
Mr. Plummer: Based on the reduction as today. You mean, on last year's
programs?
Mr. Plummer: Well, on the allocation, Mr. Mayor, that they themselves
put forth without a deficit. They know we have now, by Commission
action, $515,000 less. Predicate on that amount of money, each program
that would amount to a percentage less than what has been proposed. That
percentage would be applied to every program in the same proportion. I
don't know how else to do it.
Mayor Ferre: Plummer, let me tell you what I think that means. That
is as if you had 15 hungry children, okay? ... of which four or five of
them are on the verge of dying from starvation. Now, what you are
saying is "All right now, this is the food we have to feed fifteen, but
since we have taken away $60,000 of it, now we are going to cut all of
you proportionately less, and obviously five of you are going to die."
Now, it seems to me that if that is the case, there are programs here
where a five or ten percent reduction absolutely means they are out!
Mr. Plummer: Then do you want to do it on an individual program basis?
Mr. Dawkins: I second the motion!
Mayor Ferre: You second which motion?
Mr. Dawkins: The motion that Plummer made to make this cut - figure
out what the shortage is, divide that by the total number of projects,
and apply the cut across the board.
ld 42 JAN 51984
0.
0.
Mayor Ferre: There is a motion and a second. Is there further discussion
on the Commission? Are we clear as to what the motion is?
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, please. I don't know whether I want to vote
for my own motion? Does somebody got a better idea - I am willing to
listen.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, I don't know whether this is a better idea, but I
think we need to bite the bullet individually and decide, you know,
because some of these programs simply are not going to be able to sur-
vive with five or ten% less, and we have got programs...
Mr. Plummer: That means that what you are going to have to do is
eradicate some programs entirely.
Mayor Ferre: Okay, I think so, and then you get to the question of
what do you do about legal services.
Mr. Plummer: Well, are we going to take...
Mayor Ferre: What do you do about this Southwest project that wants
to feed people? What do you do... these are all new programs!
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let me tell you where the problem with that is
going to come, okay? I could accept that, if in fact, I had the guar-
antee that we were going to take the total program into view. I noted
for example that there is one program before us for about $100,000, and
if we cut that, they could maybe allocate and say, "Well, you are going
to kill my program", but not if you take into consideration their total
funding from all sources is over $1,000,000!
Mayor Ferre: What are you talking about, the Jewish Home for the Aged?
Mr. Plummer: I am not speaking to any. I am just saying that we must
understand that there is a total...you see, the one thing that this
Commission has never gone into, is what is the total budgets of these
programs? Let me tell you, if I were a program right now sitting be-
fore this Commission, I could rewrite that program where J. L. Plummer
could not say "no", because I take the entire City money and devote it
99% to food, and the other portions of my money I devote to personnel,
to whatever else, and to whatever else. You understand what I am
saying? But, I think when you look at programs... Dena, what page is
that on, where it shows their total allocation? There was one page
dedicated to that in here.
Mr. Gary: It is on each program individually.
Mr. Plummer: No, it wasn't. There was a page devoted just to...
Ms. Spillman: 127.
Mr. Plummer: 127. Okay, you go down these programs. Let me just
start at the top - Allapattah Elderly Project. The program is $27,000.
That is what they are asking us for, okay? But, I think we have to
look at the total agency budget, and that is $292,000. Is that total
agency part of ours as part of their total?
Ms. Spillman: Community Development.
Mr. Plummer: Okay, but what I am trying to say to you is. Useful
Aged - they are only asking for $4,000. $4,000, but their total budget
is $99,000. Coconut Grove Family Clincs - something very dear to my
heart for Father Gibson. They are only asking us for $34,000, but
their total allocation is over $500,000. The Douglas Gardens Center -
that is a wrong figure, that figure has been corrected. That is not
a correct figure - that is their total budget...
Mr. Gary: $14,000,000.
Mr. Plummer: Well, but it is not from governmental funding. It is a
much less figure. You cannot charge against Douglas, because I went up
there and I went through their budget. What they derived from the
Id 43 AN 51984
4 -
private sector is not a fair criteria. Most of these agencies that are
here don't get anything from private sector.
Ms. Spillman: Commissioner, everybody who gets private money, it is
reflected in these figures.
Mr. Plummer: They don't get it, that is the problem!
Ms. Spillman: Well, some of them do.
Mr. Plummer: But, look, what I am saying is - HACAD, they do great
work. They are asking us for $141,000, but they are getting over
$1,000,000 in total budget. I am not saying they are not entitled to
it. I am not saying that the money isn't well spent, but I am saying
from this Commission they are asking for that amount of money. JESCA,
they are only asking us for - what figure are they asking?
Ms. Spillman: $39,000.
Mr. Plummer: $39,000, yet their total budget is over $5,000,000. Now,
I think to be fair, you have got to equate how this City allocation and
the City request relates to their total budget, and you can go right on
down the line - I don't have a magic wand. I can't rob a bank.
Mayor Ferre: And there is something else that you have not done, and
you need to address here - if you want to play the role of Solomon...
Mr. Plummer: I am not sir. I am asking. No one else has made a
motion.
Mayor Ferre: Okay, if you are playing the role of Solomon, then I need
to ask you what are you doing about the petition of these new programs,
such as Legal Services, which Mr. Smith is here on, such as that South-
west Food Program, such as Reverend... yes, okay...
Mr. Plummer: Oh, well, Mr. Mayor, that is easy for me to answer, sir.
All you have to do, sir, is apply my criteria. My criteria is feed the
hungry, first. You take care of the sick second, and then any monies
left over, which I don't think there will be, but if there are, then we
will address legal problems, and then we will address other problems.
That is easy to answer, sir.
Mr. Perez: I think that the third priority was the young, not legal.
Mayor Ferre: All right, now, as I understand...
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I withdraw my motion, sir.
Mayor Ferre: Now, wait, wait.
Mr. Plummer: No, withdraw it. I only made a motion because we were
deadlocked.
Mayor Ferre: Now, are there any other motions that anybody wants to
make before we get on to the public hearing portion? Are we ready to
go?
Mr. Plummer: What is your motion?
Mayor Ferre: Well, I am ready to listen.
Mr. Plummer: I will listen. I don't know what we are listening to, but
I will listen.
Mayor Ferre: I think this is a big running around in a circle. All right,
we are going to take a 10 minute break and see if we can figure out what
the hell we are doing.
THEREUPON, THE CITY COMMISSION WENT INTO A BRIEF
RECESS AT 1:15 P.M., reconvening at 2:00 P.M. with
all members of the Commission found to be present
except for: Commissioner Carollo.
Id 44 JAN 519E
Mayor Ferre: The Commission is back in session. Reverend, I understand
you want to make a statement which I will recognize you for that purpose
right now. Go right ahead. All right, let's give the Reverend our at-
tention. Your name and address.
Rev. Stan Matthews: Mr. Mayor, I am the Reverend Stan Matthews with
Casa Integra, the Biscayne-Wynwood area, and we have a proposal before
the Commission labeled the Claude Pepper Shelter. It is my understanding
that there are other funds coming under HUD specifically designated for
new shelters and we would like to come back to you with a new applica-
tion at time and withdraw our application at the present time for F.R.S.
and thank you very much.
Mayor Ferre: I want to thank you very much, Reverend, for helping
making...
Rev. Matthews: And we wish you well, you have a tough decision here
today.
Mayor Ferre: I know that. Is there anybody else who wants...
Mr. Plummer: Reverend, may I just - a short note. I want to tell you
that when you come back, I will remember very well what you did today,
because I said to you in the beginning - what you are proposing and
what you gave to me is a proposal in the beginning that we put up the
seed money to help you get Federal money is what I think we should be
all about, and I would hope there would be more programs such as that.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you, Reverend, is there anybody else that wishes to
follow that example and at least play it smart.
Ms. Alicia Baro: Yes, I do. My name is Alicia Baro, and I live at
271 N. W. 64th Avenue. I have a program for food. It is a food and
shelter program and all of you have copies of it right there, because
we want to provide emergency food and shelter and crisis intervention
counseling for the homeless and the hungry, etc. Now, I think that
there will be - perhaps we Can present this to you at another meeting
with perhaps additional funds will be available- but I would like you
please to read this carefully. It is very much needed and it is not
that much money that we are requesting. Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you very much. Is there anybody else who wishes
to at this time voluntarily withdraw.
Mr. Luis Diaz: My name is Luis Diaz, 1850 S. W. Sth Street, Suite 402.
I am here to discuss the program that we presented. It was a good
program that was not recommended because of lack of funds. I understand...
Mayor Ferre: Which program is that, Luis?
Mr. Diaz: The Youth Council - Youth Coop. I understand that you
have so many problems with the funds, and I would like to withdraw with
only one concern in my mind. You state there that you don't want any
more new programs. I don't withdraw if you don't allow new programs in
the future, so if you will clarify that for me, I would like to withdraw
now. If not, I would like to discuss the matter more deeply.
Mr. Plummer: In all fairness, you have got to stay. We have already
allowed new programs.
Mayor Ferre: See, what has happened, Luis, is this. Plummer, I think
it was Plummer, in one of his rare moments of wisdom, about three or
four years ago, made a motion, when we were in one of these very same
sessions that we were just going to re -fund what we had previously
funded and no new programs would be accepted, and the Commission, after
having gone through one of these blood -lettings just like this, decided
that Plummer perhaps wasn't as crazy,as he seems and we all went along
and voted with him happily. okay? And that happy situation has lasted
for about three years. How long has it lasted, Dena? No new programs,
three - four years?
- 45 JAN 51984
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Ms. Spillman: (INAUDIBLE) ...... lasted six months.
Mr. Plummer: Yes, you are right.
Mayor Ferre: No, it lasted a couple of years at least.
Mr. Gary: (Inaudible)
Mayor Ferre: Oh, don't tell me. I know for a fact that for three years
we had absolutely no ... we would tell everybody, no new programs.
Ms. Spillman: We had Centro Caribeno last year - ASPIRA.
Mr. Diaz: Yes, three, four key agencies received funds. This is a new
program this year. My concern is, that if that is going to happen in
the future, I will Start fighting for my program, because I think this is
needed in the Little Havana area and they don't have that type of services,
and also that we are spending money increasing the Police Department to
avoid crime in the Little Havana area - all areas, and we are talking
about 14 or 21 youths that you care first - those particular individuals
so that you can avoid later dealing with crimes on - the rating of drug
powers as you will know, are increasing tremendously.
Mayor Ferre: Commissioner Plummer has made a statement to you and I
think he is giving you some proper advice and that is we have already
adopted three new programs, so there is no guarantee that there won't
be new programs, so you had better stick around, then. Anybody else
who wants to withdraw? All right now, let's sum this up. The last time
out, Plummer made a motion, Dawkins seconded it, that we go to a process
of funding based on a percentage basis and let the Administration dis-
tribute that based on a formula which I don't think was quite defined,
wasn't it?
Mr. Plummer: That motion was withdrawn, so...
Mayor Ferre: Then subsequent to that, after a lot of discussion, that
was withdrawn and we broke up and now we are back. Now, unless somebody
has a specific motion, either in general terms on a formula, or to start
going through this process one by one, then I am going to permit those
that are here that wish to speak to speak. Now, please stop me. Any-
body want to play Solomon around here?
Mr. Plummer: Let's admit something we don't want to - whatever we do
is wrong. Now, let's accept that as a premise, okay? Somebody has got
to be told "no". Now, Mr. Mayor, I will work with you on a percentage
basis. I will work with you on an individual basis. I will work with
you any way you want. The bottom line is still $515,000. Now, let me
tell you the thing, when you talk about across the Board, as you said
before, I think the pitfall there could reduce some programs like 10%,
and a program can't exist. I think that has got to be understood. I
think the other aspect of that is that you have got to look at a total
budget program. Is in fact the City a supplemental to their total
funding? Predicated on what I see here in some cases, the City's
allocation, if they got everything that they asked for, the City is
only like 10% of their total budget, so I don't think it would hurt
their program. Now, you know, I am not trying to set the policy. I
will work with whatever policy this Commission wants.
Mayor Ferre: We do have to set the policy - that is exactly what
this Commission is charged with and I think we have got to do that. Now,
I am willing, at this point, to recognize any of you to make any kind
of motions you want to, either in principle, or specifically. Absent
that, then I am going to let everybody have a crack at having their three
minutes. Ready? All right, Mr. Smith, you are first.
Mr. H. T. Smith: H. T. Smith, 1-017 N. W. 9th Court. First of all, let
me make the necessary disclaimers. I have no affiliation with any of
the programs here, but I am here today speaking on behalf of Legal
Services Corporation, because I think it is important, with the limited
resources that you have, realizing that you have to tell some people
"no", and realizing that the ones that you tell "yes", you are not going
Id 10 JAN 51984
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to be able to give them the money that they really need, that the money
goes as far as the money can go. Now, two things that have been said
by the Mayor I think they are important for me to make the point as to
why you should fund Legal Services. There are three things that are
priorities, and nobody that is a reasonable person can argue with those
priorities - food, medical attention, or housing, or whatever that was,
and children in need, but there are certain things that are concurrent
with those services being rendered. You can't give elderly people
food, if you can't transport them to where the food is being provided,
agreed. Necessarily, you can't provide for food and those other items
unless people have the legal support and assistance they need to pursue
the rights that they have. For instance, next year, you might not have
any revenue sharing money, but if you provide for Legal Services Corpor-
ation, people who qualify for food stamps, because from assistance from
Legal Services, may have those for the duration of the periods they need
it in excess of a year. If you provide the money for Legal Services,
individuals who have been denied the right to the Social Security bene-
fits and need those benefits in their elderly age and have earned them
may have those for the next 10 or 15 years, and all of the other con-
current items that you have given - you can't function without lawyers.
Nobody that comes before this Commission with anything of substance can
function without a lawyer, and poor people sure can't. If anybody needs
a lawyer, it is the poor. They can't afford my services - I am expensive.
But, the least I can do in terms of doing the other pro bono activities
that I do is to come to you on behalf of good programs like Legal Ser-
vices in the Wynwood area, where there is no office - those people are
locked in, they can't get out, and in Overtown, they are locked in. They
are not going up on 79th Street, so if you can provide any money for
Legal Services Program, you know that you have done two things. One,
you have give to a program that you don't have to worry about any problems
about any problems in the State Attorney's office, because it is going to
be monitored properly, and two, you have done more in terms of a long
range of things. Feed a person today, and he you teach a person how to
feed himself, and he can feed himself for his life. If you had a fish,
some fish, or a fishing pole, I would tell you to give the people the
fishing pole, because once they eat the fish, what are you going to do
tomorrow? So, you give the people the fishing pole or legal support
that they need, and then you will have done more than you could ever
do, if you gave all of them the $1,000,000. Please consider Legal Ser-
vices for that reason.
Mayor Ferre: Thank you very much. Reverend Stan Matthews has withdrawn,
PAGE - Mr. Will Baskins.
Mr. Will Baskins: Will Baskins, with PAGE, 1421 N. W. 50th Street.
Mr. Plummer: Which organization?
Mr. Baskins: PAGE.
Mayor Ferre: Performing Arts Guild Ensemble, asking for $15,000 to
serve 600 kids. Here five times, turned down every time - please help.
Go ahead.
Mr. Baskins: Yes, I realize the situation that everybody is in here
today, and we of all people, we don't want to take anything away from
anybody else. I have given you, the Honorable Mayor, all of the other
Commissioners copy of our proposal and other information. I hope you
have read it so you know more about what is our program is about. We
are here just to stay alive. We aren't asking for money for every year
to support our program, but basically seed money so that we can stay
alive. We have been around since 1979, teaching kids art, music, dance,
drama. I know we are not a social service program. I had a few other
people here - Mr. Otts Pitts, Ms. Range and a gentlemen from the Legal
Service Department that wanted to tell you what was happening with the
young kids and the Juvenile Justice System. We take these kids out of
the street and we try to give them a place in the community by teaching
them different programs, and art and music and dance and drama and
whatever. We found that the State paid $100,000 a year for five kids
that have to go through the Juvenile Justice System, and if we could
take these kids and teach them something other than staying on the streets,
1d 91 JAN. 51984
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I think that we have accomplished something here. I guess you all
noticed I am a little nervous. I am not used to speaking in front
of people like this, but my whole thing here today is just to ask you
to try to support these kids. There is nobody else but the kids. We
aren't asking for continual support, or anything but just to stay
alive. We are only asking for $15,000 as seed money. We won't be
back to anything else. If we aren't funded here today, we will have
to close our doors. We have got 150 kids that have called in in the
last two months that want to come into this program, and the reason we
get so many kids is because we don't charge a fee. Everything is free
to the community and we open our doors to anybody, Black, White, Latin,
Jewish. We even have some little German kids in the program. We have
had kids that have come through this program that are working now at
professional jobs, and the only thing I can say is that it is a very
good program, if you read the proposal that I is before you, I am sure
you will understand. You can see what it is all about. Well, like I
said, we have done a lot of things. I have a certificate that you,
yourself, Mayor Ferre has given us - a certificate of appreciation
for performing for the City.
Mayor Ferre: I want to just tell you that your three minutes are up,
but I have gotten all kinds of phone calls about you, and I want you
to know that you have a strong advocate in my office - I don't know
what Carol Ann Taylor is, but she has been pestering me on this since
the moment I hit Miami and got off the plane - I think one of the first
things she told me is that I have to help you. Oh, here she is right
back there, so you have strong friends and advocates and I know Mrs.
Range and Otis Pitts and there are many people in the community, and
I want to tell you that I have read both the Herald and the News
story as to what you do and what you do with so little is unbelievable,
so I wish to God we could help you but I have got to in all honesty
tell you that the needs around here are so vast, that I frankly do not
perceive that any new programs are going to be funded, other than those
that are involved with food. That is just one man's opinion.
Mr. Dawkins: Mr. Baksius, I am taware of what you are doing, because
you live the next block from me. I see you daily attempting to meet
the needs of the individuals, but I have constantly told you that I
couldn't help you, for we didn't have the money, but you are one of
the few kinds of programs that I tell the Miami Citizens Against Crime
and all of the other people who come down here yelling and screaming
for more policemen, that this is the kind of thing that we should be
into. Now, the State of Florida said, when they allocated the one
cent sales tax that a part of that money should have been spent in
preventive, and not police work. So, I will take it upon myself, I
am not going to ask you to go begging, and you know, lose your manhood
no more. I will get with Mike Friedman in the State, and somewhere see
if we can't in some kind of a way, milk $15,000 out of that money that
is supposed to be coming in to here for prevention of crime, and give
it to a program that is preventive and not wait until people get in
the damn jail, and talking about helping them! I will see what I can
do.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Manager, I want to not only echo my colleague's state-
ment, but if there is any - along the road, in the next 10 months left
of this fiscal year, if there is $15,000 extra that becomes available,
I want to say that I for one am for giving these people a priority in
the future. That is one man's opinion on the record.
Mr. Baskins: Thank you very much.
Mayor Ferre: Youth Coop - Genaro Perez.
Mr. Genaro Perez: My name is Genaro Perez, 120 S. W. 17th Court. I
work for the Youth Coop.' I do agree 100% with Commissioner Dawkins what
he has said.- "I wish we would prevent crime". Always! It is what we
are doing in my agency. Now, let me ask a question of Dena Spillman.
Dena -
Mayor Ferre: Dena Spillman.
Id 4$ AN
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Mr. Genaro Perez: I do believe I found some additional money here.
Ms. Spillman: Good!
Mr. Genaro Perez: Okay, the Commission that you should use one -twelfth
of the- fufidg-for each agency, ,right? Every month?
Ms. Spillman: Yes, sir.
Mr. Genaro Perez: Now, I found out that free meal programs, or projects
were approved by the Commission. One is Centro Mater, that has received
$3,334 for from $20,000, right?
Ms. Spillman: Sir, could you make your point and I will tell you if we
agree on the bottom line?
Mr. Genaro Perez: Okay, I found out that Martin Technical College has
received the full amount, $175,000. Then I found additional money.
Ms. Spillman: No, sir it has been allocated to Martin Technical College.
Mr. Genaro Perez: Well, the same way was allocated to Centro Mater,
right?
Ms. Spillman: No, that is not correct. There is no additonal money.
I mean I understand what you are saying, but there is no additional
money. Martin Technical College, the money has been reserved for them.
Mr. Perez: You mean the full amount, $175,000?
Ms. Spillman: The full amount. Centro Mater, the money has been re-
served for them, the full amount, just the amount we have advanced
them already.
Mr. Perez: I don't understand.
Mayor Ferre: The difference is that the....
Ms. Spillman: Because that is what the City Commission did.
Mayor Ferre: .... Commission voted that way. You may have been here when
it occured, as you remember, Commissioner Barbara Carey got up and made
a statement into the record that there is no way that she could fund her
program on a promise and either she was funded or wasn't funded, and this
Commission then took a position and voted unanimously to fund the program.
Mr. Perez: 'tnat is an exception, then.
Mayor Ferre: That is gone. That money is gone, that is spent.
Mr. Perez: Well, another thing, Mayor. I found out the other day in
the newspaper that the City is going to spend over $3,000,000 to satisfy
1,100 policemen in salary increases. There are volunteers like Mr.
Blanco, who is serving about 5,000 people. He is requesting an addi-
tional $30,000, and he has problems. We are serving a lot of young
people to prevent the police from taking them to jail. We are asking
$20,000, and we have problems. Now, I don't understand this lady. We
have a responsibility with the social program. It is our responsibility,
because they are citizens of the City of Miami. I know that the Federal
government is turning their backs to our problems, but we should keep
fighting and try to help those people to prevent them from going to
jail, or prevent them from dying hungry. It is a shame for the United
States of America that this happens, especially my city, Miami I guess
when you took the oath, you took authority to take control of this City.dy the
same token, you have responsibility to the citizens of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: My answer to you is, that I am totally opposed to the
President of the United States, and the Congress funding the B-1 bomber
and the M-X missle, and if they hadn't done that, we would have twenty-
four billion dollars which would be more than sufficient to take care
of all these programs that are now not being funded nationally, okay?
But right now, our problem is that those social programs have been cut,
Id 49 JAN 51984
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and this City of Miami is not going to be able - we have a commitment
with the Police Department, and there is nothing we can do about that!
Mr. Genaro Perez: I respect the Police Department, I sure believe they
should get a decent salary.
Mayor Ferre: And we are not going to cut down the Police Department to
satisfy programs. The Police Department is a responsibility of the City
of Miami. He is elected, and I am elected and he is elected and sworn
to office and the Police Department is part of what we swear to uphold.
I did not swear, and nobody on this Commission swore to uphold any
social programs, because that is not part of our Charter. That is not
part of our responsibility. Now, if we can, we will. Right now, you
know, what can I tell you? We have got $500,000 left, and there is
$2,000,000 worth of requests on the table.
Mr. Genaro Perez: Yes, but my point is this, Mayor, I am sorry.
Mayor Ferre: You have a good point. I agree with you, I wish I could
give you the money.
Mr. Genaro Perez: I mean, if we reduce the problem, you know, with
social prcgcams,-then we don't need too many policemen.
Mayor Ferre: I agree, I agree.
Mr. Perez: We are spending millions and millions of dollars fighting
crime, when we can, with less money, prevent the crime, is what I am
trying to point out.
Mayor Ferre: I agree with that philosophy completely. I wish we could
implement it.
Mr. Perez: Thank you very much.
Mayor Ferre: All right, the next speaker is Rosario Kennedy - Switch-
board.. The next speaker - you don't look like Rosario Kennedy to me,
and I don't think Dave would be very...
Mr. George McKinney: I am not Rosario Kennedy - my name is George Mc-
Kinney. I live at 3183 Matilda Street. Rosario had to leave, and
therefore we will not be making a presentation at this time. Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: The next one is Marisela Latimer, Executive Director of
ASPIRA of Florida, and I would like to ask Ms. Latimer, if she would
also ... because there are a lot of other people here, and out of fair-
ness to other groups here, you know - I notice that ASPIRA has four
speakers and I think we need to kind of decide - I don't mind, let's
say, giving you two minutes and somebody else two minutes and maybe
giving you more than three, but we can't give everybody three minutes.
Ms. Marisela Latimer: We are going to have only two persons. The
first one is Maria Santiago Merado. She is the National Chairperson
of ASPIRA of America and the second one is Arturo Luis Martinez, he
is the Chairperson of ASPIRA Florida.
Ms. Santiago-Merado: I am sure that you will be pleased to hear that
it will even be shorter than that, given Dr. Martinez, due to a bad cold,
has a terrible case of laryngitis, so I will be the only one addressing
you. First, I wish to thank you and the Commission for the possibility
of addressing you today regarding ASPIRA of Florida. I don't know how
many persons here are present realize that ASPIRA of Florida is a member
of an association of ASPIRA agencies that are national, and to that note
is that I have come from New Jersey as the Chair of that national board
to address you in this urgent situation - the survival of ASPIRA of
Florida. As a member of the Association, I want you to realize one
thing, that ASPIRA of Florida has been able to have quite an impact
here in Florida and in Miami specifically, but also nationally, as a
member of that coalition. As a member of a staff and a body of policy
makers that have worked nationally on many levels, including the areas
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JAN 51984
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that you so fully define as your priorities in Washington and at many
State legislative levels. I want to ask one thing of you which is one
to equip me to help ASPIRA of Florida, Number one, survive and grow. I
commit myself, and I do so after a resolution of the Board of Directors
of ASPIRA of America, to assist Florida at three levels. Number one was
money. I commit myself this year to focus on a development plan that
will take supplement whatever investment you make, okay to the maximum
of our potential of develment, and we have some well prepared people to
do that, and some good networks to do that. Number two, I commit myself
to technical development and assistance in the development of the Staff
here in Florida. We will provide your Staff with maximum staff training
delivered directly by our staff and whatever other resources we can
muster and outside of the other states where we have associations. The
third thing I commit myself to, okay, is to assist specifically here in
the area of Miami - in the area of program development. One of the
problems that you have witnessed here is that when you have an organiza-
tion that is as young as ASPIRA of Florida is, that has tried a number
of things, and not everything has worked - we have learned a lot from
that two year experience. Those of us from outside of Florida could
not come in with a package program and impose it upon you. We now have
insight as to what your needs are. We have insight as to what your
population truly wants and needs. We are now able to match whatever
resources we have or to muster to address them. We implore you to
recognize the existing capability and the potential of your involvement
in making this a very successful operation. Thank you, very much.
Mayor Ferre: Ms. Merado, let me ask you just for the record so I under-
stand. Your petition is for how much money?
Ms. Santiago-Merado: Our petition, as it stands right now...
Mayor Ferre: What is left of the year yet.
Ms. Santiago-Merado: What left of the year is $50,198 as per the
information I received.
Mayor Ferre: Are you telling me that your national board is going to
match that?
Ms. Santiago-Merado: I did not say dollar for dollar. I can tell you
right now that I already have activites in place and on February 1,
we will have a check in the hands of ASPIRA of Florida of at least
$6,000, and that is just beginning the fiscal year. I commit my office
in New York to working in a development plan in this City and also in
national fund raising activities where ASPIRA of Florida being an equal
member of that group will receive its equal share of whatever we make
nationally. That is all I can do.
Mayor Ferre: Okay, just for the record, so that we understand...
Ms. Santiago-Merado: Yes, I appreciate the clarification.
Mayor Ferre: Please, just for the record, so I want to put this into the
record, the Coca Cola Corporation...
Ms. Santiago-Merado: I have their report here.
Mayor Ferre: Will you let me finish, please? The Coca Cola Corpora-
tion has chosen ASPIRA as -the Number one Hispanic National Program. I
just want to put this into the record that these are people that are
recognized by their peers as being the outstanding Hispanic program in
the United States.
Ms. Santiago-Merado: I thank you. I didn't want to toot our own horn,
but thank you very much.
Mr. Plummer: Hell, they even chose Luis Sabines!
Mayor Ferre: Over me, at that! (LAUGHTER)
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51 JAN 51984
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Mayor Ferre: The next speaker is Octavio Blanco. ACTION. Mr. Blanco?
Mr. Octavio Blanco: Octavio Blanco. ACTION Community Center, 8115
s. W. 16th Street. Mayor and Commissioners - like every year, I have
to come down here to try and ask you people for more money. You see
our total budget, what it is today. What we are asking down here is
less than 4%, an increase.
Mayor Ferre: Less than 4%? How can $30,000 out of $90,000 be 4%?
Mr. Blanco: Total budget, I said, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, total budget.
Mr. Blanco: Remember that this budget is Federal revenues only to
help part of the program.
Mr. Plummer: How much percent did you say?
Mr. Blanco: Close to 4k%.
Mr. Plummer: Now, your request from the City, based on your total
budget is exactly 15.2%.
Mr. Blanco: 15.2%.
Mr. Plummer: According to our figures, your City allocation is $65,970.
Mr. Blanco: From the Federal Revenue. I said from the total budget.
Mr. Plummer: Oh, I am sorry. You know, the total budget that you
have, according to our figures, is $417,453 - $65,000 of that would be
15.2%.
Mr. Blanco: I said the amount - the $30,000 that I actually requested.
Mr. Plummer: You mean up and above.
Mr. Blanco: Up and above.
Mr. Plummer: Okay.
Ms. Spillman: It is on Page 69, the total budget.
Mayor Ferre: All right, are we ready to continue?
Mr. Blanco: As you are aware, you were awake the other day like I said
before at 11:00 o'clock for a lady that she needs transportation and I
bring you the proof, that is just the month before - that lady received
44 services from our agency. People are calling us and they want ser-
vices. When Allapattah needs more money for food, and you allocate that
money to Allapattah, people have to go there and then Urra is calling
me, so I need more transportation. The same thing happened with the
Southwest Services that you are not having any money for yet, but it
is ACTION Community Center that is giving service to those people who
live in the City of Miami limits. Everybody - because we are the only
transportation services within the City of Miami limits and we have
to serve everybody on the first come, first serve, to get service. So,
when I come down here, believe me, I get red in my face, because it
looks like sometimes we are asking this money for us. Really, when I
see like Mr. Dawkins was saying, that 40% was for food and 60% was for
salary, you people have to realize that some of this program, like you
personally, will say later that anybody can change the budget and make
a 99% or 100% of this money in food service. This money that we get
from Federal Revenue, we are using just to supplement this program.
Most of the program is that we are here. I don't want it to happen
like it happened before on June. This Commission allocated to ACTION
Community Center $10,000. Then we find out, believe me, that we don't
get the money from Community Development money. It was allocated by
Federal Revenue Sharing. Now, when we asked the Staff members for more
money, they say "You have your money already". Believe, I don't care,
I believe the Mayor was wrong when he said that we better give this
program to United Way. I think it is better to give it to anybody else.
52 JAN 51984
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People are coming down here so many times and asking like we are trying,
to you people to substantiate our salary. Let me tell you, most of the
people who are working on the agency can go to any other place and work
and make a better living. because right now at this moment, I don't
even know what is the budget of Action Community Center. Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: Nancy Ungaro, United Family - Children's Services. You
waive your rights? Elaine Silvan...
Mr. Plummer: The lady that waived your rights, is that a new program?
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Plummer: What is your program, excuse me?
Mayor Ferre: United Family - Children's Services.
Mr. Plummer: That is not presently being funded?
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me? By the City? Well, now, I have it listed
here as...it is a new project, right?
Mayor Ferre: Is it being funded or is it a new project?
Mr. Plummer: Or is it both? Is it a new project?
Ms. Spillman: It is currently funded by Community Devleopment, not
FRS.
Mayor Ferre: C.D.? It is presently being...
Ms. Spillman: Funded by Community Development. You had tentatively
approved that under FRS and they got an advance.
Mayor Ferre: Was that the $20,000?
Mr. Plummer: $22,820. Well, let me make a suggestion to you so that
you can't scream foul later.
Ms. Spillman: You have already given this your stamp of approval.
Mr. Plummer: Well, you know, those stamps can be eradicated. Might
I suggest to you that what you are looking at as well as all programs,
is a 26% cut. I think you had better speak. Cut across the board, Mr.
Mayor, evenly and proportionately to every program represents at 26%
cut.
Ms. Nancy Ungaro: My name is Nancy Ungaro from United Family and Child-
ren's Services located at 2190 N. W. 7th Street. I am Project Director
of Operation Mainstream, which is a counseling program for the elderly
in the core of downtown Miami. I work out of Gesu Center, Methodist
Center, the downtown hotels and on the street when it is necessary.
At the present time, I am the only one working in the program. We
had CETA funds prior to this, which, over the years, was list when
CETA went out of business. Last year we served 212 individuals,
mental health counseling and a lot of monitoring of the medical coun-
seling. 50% of my clients are between the ages of 80 and 96... Most of
them last in the family line and have no support system other than at
this moment, myself and the Center. I would very much appreciate get-
ting enough bo that we can hire another worker and begin to come up
to covering the people that are available.
(INAUDIBLE COMMENTS - OFF MICROPHONE)
Ms. Ungaro: Okay, I am confused right now.
Mr. Dawkins: Don't feel bad.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me. You are from United Family and Children's
Service?
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Ms. Ungaro: Operation Mainstream, out of Gesu , The Methodist Center, Gesu
Center in the downtown hotels.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, the project that I spoke to is now still
covered by the First United Methodist Church. Did you speak to me?
Ms. Ungaro: No, sir.
Mayor Ferre: How does this program get funded?
Ms. Spillman: It was recommended by the Commission.
Mayor Ferre: Who on the Commission?
Ms. Spillman: Commissioner Plummer.
Mr. Plummer: I recommended it?
Ms. Spillman: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: And they didn't even speak to me?
Ms. Ungaro: I believe that Sister Moura and Mr. Sellar and...
Mr. Plummer: No. The only one that spoke to me, that Sister Moura
spoke me about is funded, and that is the First United Methodist
Church.
Ms. Ungaro: No, sir. It is two separate things. I served the
social services to First United Methodist Church. I do all the coun-
seling to Gesu Church.
Mayor Ferre: The first rule of thumb is you have got to keep counting
your own turkeys.
Mr. Plummer: It is not a turkey for me, Mr. Mayor.
Ms. Ungaro: Our agency project supplies the counseling for Gesu Senior
Center and First Methodist Senior Center.
Mr. Plummer: All right, whether it is as the Mayor says, my fowl -
turkey, I don't like, fowl or not. You have got to stand on your
program. Your program either is going to provide a service which
comes under whatever guidelines are furnished by this Commission, or
it doesn't. I would hope that all the turkeys of this Commission flew
out on Thanksgiving.
Ms. Ungaro: But we had been one of the few programs that were recom-
mended for funding in the proposal.
Mayor Ferre: By who?
Ms. Ungaro: By the...
Mayor Ferre: Staff?
Ms. Ungaro: Staff.
Mayor Ferre: Dena, Staff recommended this be funded?
Ms. Spillman: Not the additional funds.
Mr. Plummer: What is the additional funds?
Ms. Ungaro: What additional funds?
Ms. Spillman: I'm sorry. I am wrong, we did. Yes, we did, I take it
back. We recommended it. Commissioner Plummer voted to fund it.
Mayor Ferre: All right, in other words, you did recommend it for
funding. All right, is there anything else you want to add?
JA N 5 1984
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Ms. Ungaro: No, I just want the confusion cleared up that we were one
that was recommended.
Mayor Ferre: There is no way to clear up confusion in this Commission,
Ma'am. Not that I know of! All right, thank you, Ma'am. The next
speaker is Elaine Silvan.
Ms. Elaine Silvan: My name is Elaine Silvan, 130 N. E. 54 Place,
Haitian Refugee Center Day Care. I am here one more time, maybe the
last time, to ask you to consider the proposal for the Daycare Center.
The community really needs that Daycare Center. Parents need to go
to work. Parents need to go to school. Children need to be somewhere
where they can have proper supervision, proper nutrition. I am sure
each one of you...I have a sent a packet - a support letter to show
you how all the people feel that the community needs that type of ser-
vice. People who asked who have been working in the community, insti-
tution was already established in the community. They know the problems
of the community, therefore I am asking you one more time to consider
this proposal for the daycare. Let's not wait for seven, ten years in
order to solve serious problems. Let's see if we can solve them now,
and maybe in seven, ten years, we will have less problems in our hands.
Mayor Ferre: All right, thank you. The next speaker is Luis Diaz.
You have already been covered.
Mr. Luis Diaz: I am going to take 30 seconds.
Mayor Ferre: Okay.
Mr. Diaz: My name is Luis Diaz. What I would like to see
is the same power that was invested and approved for Martin Technical
College, the full amount, to consider our project. There is a great
need for it in Little Havana, and consider that for funding. Thank you
Mayor Ferre: All right, the next speaker is Christina Penedo, South-
west Social Services.
Ms. Christina Penedo: My name is Christina Penedo, I represent South-
west Social Services program, 7367 S. W. 8th Street. I have come to
request the Commission's consideration of our request for F.R.S. funds.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank Commissioner Plummer for
having mentioned the area of Flagami as one of the forgotten neighbor-
hoods in the City of Miami. Our particular area is in desperate need
of more facilities that provide additional services to the elderly.
Flagami, as stated in a recent needs assessment by the area Agency
on Aging has a population of 30,567 persons age 60 and over. 75% of
them are minorities and 18% of them are below poverty level. This
leaves 5,500 persons living below poverty level. The only other
program providing similar services in the area is St. Dominic's Gar-
den, as compared to the rest of the City of Miami, two programs to
cover the whole area of Flagami, I feel is very little. On December
8th meeting, the Mayor and the City Commissioners expressed that fund-
ing priorities should be given to programs that feed the hungry. In
a recent statement I read this morning on the neighbors, Ms. Spillman
reported as follows: "Clearly, the first priority has been to fund
food related projects." The main purpose of our program is to provide
nutritionally balanced meals to elderly persons who do not have the
benefit of living in housing facilities and by living on a fixed income
hardly have any money left after paying for their living expenses. After
serving this area for the past four years, we have found an alarming num-
ber of elderly in poor health and with serious emotional problems, which
we feel are caused and compounded due to malnutrition and lack of ade-
quate income. By optaining funds from the City of Miami, we will be
able to match this money with Title III money for congregate meals and
instead of providing the amount of meals we are providing right now, we
will be able to double pr triple the amount of food. Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: All right, this concludes all of the speakers that I ... oh,
I am sorry, Sister. Beg your pardon, I stand corrected. Sister Katherine
Lauler.
Sister Katherine Lauler: Sister Katherine Lauler from the
Haitian Catholic Center. As you were talking about the Watson Island,
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I was reminded that if the people in the northern part of the State, or
the northern counties are going to get to Watson Island, they will have
to pass through the area that we presently call Little Haiti. Now, we
have been operating there for four years. We have not asked the City
for money for food and clothing because we provided that. We have
also made arrangements to provide medical service. We have not asked
the City of Miami to help us with that, but we are asking you to help
us with making the residents of that community self-sufficient. We
are not able to do that on our own. What we are able to do is offer
to the City of Miami a facility located in the heart of Little Haiti.
We can offer you administration. We can offer you a staff for our
good, excellent program for the residents there, but you must help us
to find employment for the citizens of that area. You must help us to
prepare them for employment. You must help us to follow through on
their employment. For that, we need the cooperation of the City. If
you do this, the citizens who come to Watson Island will want to pass
through Little Haiti as a productive and attractive neighborhood.
Otherwise, ten years from now the City Commissioners will be planning
how to build an expressway from the northern counties to Watson Island,
bypassing Little Haiti.
Mayor Ferre: All right, thank you. Are there any other public speakers
at this time at this public hearing, getting revenue sharing? All
rignt, is there a motion therefore that the public portion of this
hearing be closed. It has been moved and seconded. Further discussion?
THEREUPON, on motion duly made by Commissioner Plummer and
seconded by Commissioner Dawkins that Public Hearing portion
of meeting be closed - said motion was adopted by the fol-
lowing vote:
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Ferre: All right now, Members of the Commission, we have now
heard once again, with very little new information, from a lot of the
different groups that are, in my opinion, tragically requesting for
monies when we are not going to be able satisfy basic needs of people
here. Now, we can do this one of several ways. We can one, pass a
resolution backing the Management's - Administration's position; two,
we can a resolution outlining the policy of the City of Miami in
general terms and not getting into specifics, or three, we can get
into the specifics one by one. Tell me which one you want to do.
Mr. Plummer: We will listen to the wisdom of Solomon.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I will tell you, as far as I am concerned, I don't
see how we can possibly at this stage of the game avoid going and doing
this on an individual basis. We have done that already.
Mr. Plummer: Let's go.
Mayor Ferre: We have done this right now! We have done this in the
past, and...
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mayor Ferre: That is exactly what we did with Martin Technical Col-
lege. That what we did with Centro Hater. That is what we did with
this other group here. I don't see how we can avoid it, I mean...
Mr. Dawkins: Mr. Manager, get you a calculator. Get a calculator
and when we get to $517,000, tell them that is it!
Mr. Plummer: Well, let me tell you. What we've got to do is cut out
a little over 26%.
Id 56 JAN 51984
Ms. Spillman: Commissioner, can I correct you on that? There are
some technicalities in here that perhaps aren't clear. The figure is
actually about 22%.
Mr. Plummer: 26%.
Ms. Spillman: Based on last year's...
Mayor Ferre: Okay, that is where we are.
Mr. Plummer: I might lie - my calculator doesn't.
Mr. Dawkins: When we get to $515,000, that is it.
Mayor Ferre: We will start off at the top.
Mr. Plummer: Well, the bottom line is we have got eliminate what...?
$231,000, right?
Mr. Gary: No, more than that. You have got to add $60,000 to that,
J. L.
Mr. Plummer: Oh, I am sorry, you are right.
Mayor Ferre: I think what we do► is we start at the top and go right
down the line.
Mr. Dawkins: (INAUDIBLE)... when we get to $517,000, that is it.
Mr. Plummer: No, no.
Mr. Dawkins: (INAUDIBLE, OFF MICROPHONE)
Mr. Plummer: No, we are not.
Mr. Plummer: Then it is just as fair to start at the bottom and work
up.
Mr. Dawkins: Well, you can start in the middle and take one up and one
down, I don't care how you do it. When we get to $517,000, that is it.
Mr. Plummer: That is not a good priority.
Mr. Dawkins: All I am saying to you is, like you say, we are damned if
we do and we are damned if we don't.
Mayor Ferre: Well, we are anyway.
Mr. Dawkins: Now, somebody out here is going to say, biller, you went
against mel And I can't help it!
Mayor Ferre: Well, it is going to happen, and they are going to say
that to me!
Mr. Dawkins: All right, I will tell you what. I am going to $515,000,
okay? When we get to $515,000, I am leaving. Now, you guys can sit
here and juggle or do anything you want.
Mayor Ferre: All right. I will tell you, you want to start the ball
rolling?
Mr. Plummer: Go ahead.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Action Community Center - they are asking for
an additional $21,000, is that right?
57
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Ms. Spillman: What page are you on?
Mr. Gary: What page are you on?
Mayor Ferre: On the first page - Page 6.
Ms. Spillman: Well, they are asking for $30,000.
Mayor Ferre: I see actual allocation as per Commission - additional
allocation to fund $44,B12.
Mr. Gary: No, they are asking for $95,970.
Mr. Plummer: Go to the column marked...
Ms. Spillman: The far left.
Mr. Dawkins: Well, we are talking about working from the middle.
Mayor Ferre: Wait a minute.
Mr. Dawkins: (INAUDIBLE COMMENT)
Mayor Ferre: Will you listen to me. Four months have gone by, is that
correct?
Ms. Spillman: Correct.
Mayor Ferre: So, if you are going to give them their request,(please
follow me), it has to be eight- twelfths which is two-thirds of $30,000,
since four months have already gone by. You can't give them $30,000.
Mr. Plummer: Maurice, go to the last column.
Mr. Dawkins: We have given them $24,000.
Mayor Ferre: No, no, we have given them $21,168.
Mr. Plummer: That is correct.
Ms. Spillman: He is talking about it.
Mayor Ferre: They are asking now for $44,812.
Ms. Spillman: No, no.
Mr. Gary: No, no.
Ms. Spillman: To fund them up into a level where they were funded
previously...
Mr. Gary: Last year.
Ms. Spillman .... we need $44,812. That is just to carry them. It has
nothing to do with the increase.
Mayor Ferre: Look, will you listen to me again? They have asked...
Dena, when you are ready to listen, you let me know. Go ahead and
finish, and listen to her, and let me know when you are ready.
Ms. Spillman: Can I explain something?
Mayor Ferre: No, I want to explain something to you!
Ms. Spillman: Okay.
Mayor Ferre: Okay? And I want you to listen to me. Now, in their
original request, which you recommended, was $65,970.
Ms. Spillman: Correct.
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Mayor Ferre: Now, we have already expended $21,156.
Ms. Spillman: Correct.
Mayor Ferre: If we are going to expend what is remaining in their
request, they would therefore gather $44,812. All right, now, in ad-
dition to that, they have asked for an additional $30,000, but four
months have gone by. So, if you apply the same formula of eight -
twelfth of the remaining $30,000, you are down to $20,000.
Ms. Spillman: That is correct, two thirds of...
Mayor Ferre: Now, let me finish. Now, if you add $20,000 to $44,812,
their new position is $64,000, however, Plummer's formula, if we are
to follow it, requires a reduction of 26%. Plummer, is that right?
Mr. Plummer: Yes. That would bring them to $33,609.
Mayor Ferre: so, it would be $64.812, minus...
Ms. Spillman: No, no. You would apply it to the...
Mayor Ferre: You have not followed what I am doing. I have added to
their basic request the $30,000, which is not $30,000, but $20,000,
because four months have gone by. So, if we are to do what Blanco
and Action are asking for, what they are requesting for to be fair,
is $64,812, based on their request. Okay? Now, Plummer is saying
we must, to be fair, cut that 26% across the board.
Ms. Spillman: Correct.
Mr. Gary: But he is saying more than that. He started out - he didn't
add the new request. He took the $44,000, so you have it different in
terms of what is the bas upon which you cut.
Mayor Ferre: I know thatl
Mr. Plummer: Yes, because then if you use that formula - the Mayor,
then the 705 at the bottom doesn't hold up. That is increased.
Mr. Gary: Exactly.
Mr. Plummer: And it is more than the 26% per program.
Mayor Ferre: That is right. That is right.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, it was my understanding that no new additional
requests would be honored. That was my understanding, in F.R.S.
Mr. Dawkins: Mr. Gary, does the $517,000 balance, does that include
the additional requests, or is that minus the additional requests?
Mr. Gary: Minus.
Mr. Dawkins: So how in the hell are we going to sit up here and discuss
something that does not exist?
Mr. Plummer: Well, you could do it on an individual basis.
Mr. Dawkins: How can you do it?
Mr. Plummer: You are going to eliminate some programs completely.
Mayor Ferre: Now you have got it. That is one way of doing it.
Mr. Gary: I would like to have the opportunity, Mr. Mayor, as you
make decisions that Staff be allowed to give you its professional
recommendation also on each project.
Mr. Plummer: We have done that in your initial recommendation.
59
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JAN 51984
01
Mayor Ferre: No, but I think he is right. In other words, he is say-
ing we are not getting to the real nitty-gritty, and he may have some
further cuts that he may want to recommend. I've got you.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, go ahead.
Mayor Ferre: Go ahead, Mr. Manager. Please help us out of this
dilemma. Let me tell you where I am at, okay? I am willing *.o go
one by one and allocate, arbitrarily, because that's the way it is,
taking these recommendations and just arbitrarily coming up with a
figure. Now, we are going to come to a point where somebody is going
to get cut, and it is just a question as to what we have as priorities,
that is all. And I am just telling you right now that I am going to
be voting - just put it right on the record - that I am going to be
voting for ASPIRA, and that I am going to be voting for Action, and
we are going to do it on an individual basis. Now, if we are going to
be doing it on a non -individual basis, then I think we need to do it
as a policy matter, and I am willing to entertain that as a motion,
and then we do not get into...
Mr. Dawkins: I have no problem with that and I will be voting for...
Mayor Ferre: You pick the ones...
Mr. Dawkins: ... HACAD and Tacolcy...
Mayor Ferre: That is right, that is fine. That is exactly the way..
Mr. Dawkins: So that is four programs that we have got that will not
be cut. Now, let's get some more.
Mayor Ferre: HACAD and Tacolcy.
Mr. Dawkins: Right.
Mayor Ferre: Now, there is Tacolcy I and Tacolcy II. Are you talking
about both? One is Sports, II, and the Other one is Youth Vocation.
Are you talking about both of those, Miller?
Mr. Dawkins: I will leave it up to the Manager, which one I should go
with.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Manager?
Mr. Dawkins: That is all right. I will take both of them.
Mayor Ferre: Both of them, all right. Mr. Plummer, anything you want
to tell us to? All right, Mr. Perez, is there any program here you
want funded?
Mr. Perez: I think when I was out you approved a motion about the new
project, Lhat you are not goir)g.to affect anything?
Mayor Ferre: No, we haven't done that, not that I remember.
Mr. Perez: You still didn't do anything?
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Plummer, did we move - you are the guy with the memory
around here. Did we move that we were not going to fund any new programs?
Did we make a motion to that effect?
Mr. Plummer: No, the motion which we made was that the maximum amount
that we would spend would be $515,000, that is the only motion that I
know of that passed.
Mr. Perez: I would like to include the Youth Co-op on S. W. 7th St.
Mayor Ferre: Where is Youth Co-op?
Mr. Plummer: That is a new project.
60 'JAN 51984
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Mayor Ferre: Youth Co-op? Southwest Services.
Mr. Plummer: That now makes our deficit $94,000 more.
Mayor Ferre: For the full amount? $64,000?
Mr. Dawkins: Mr. Mayor, I've got to reconsider. If everybody else
here is not taking two projects, I am not taking any, because I am
not going out on a limb like this. So, if everybody does not take
two projects, or one project not to be cut, then I make a motion that
we start at the top and we come down and when we get to $517,000, then
we start saying "Well, I want this one", and then if you get three votes
you get three votes to cut out what you want.
Mayor Ferre: Do it any way you want it. I repeat to you. We can do
it one of three ways. We can throw the ball to the Manager and let
the Administration make the decisions. Number two, we can set a policy
and not get into specifics, or Number three, we can go individually down,
one by one.
Mr. Dawkins: All right, I am in favor of going individually down.
Mayor Ferre: All right.
Mr. Plummer: Is that all the way to the bottom?
Mr. Dawkins: Yes, without the new additional requests.
Mayor Ferre: All right, we've got to make that into a motion, one
way or the other.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, I move that we go down the list individually, with
the last column, where it says additional allocations to fund the pro-
ject through 9-30-84.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Plummer, and Perez, Mr. Manager, you had bet-
ter watch now, because there is something happening now which moves us
off of dead center. There is a motion by a member of this Commission
that says that we only take into consideration the last column of Page
6, which is additional allocations to fund projects through 9-30-84.
Mr. Perez: In that way we would have only the opportunity to cover
two of the new projects?
Mr. Plummer: None of them!
Mayor Ferre: None of the new projects. They get eliminated.
Mr. Plummer: No, that would free up $31,000.
Mayor Ferre: No, more than that - $94,000.
Mr. Plummer: No, because you can't touch Martin Technical. That
money is gone, and you can't touch Centro Mater, that money is gone,
so the two projects that I see that you would be loosening up ... oh,
I am sorry, Centro Mater is in the category, and the other one is
United Family and Children Services.
Mr. Gary: Right.
Mr. Plummer: You eliminate those two, that is $31,000.
Mr. Gary: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Or rough 10% of what you need.
Mayor Ferre: The motion, as I understood it, and please correct me if
it is wrong, that this Commission will only consider the last column
on Page 6, existing projects entitled "Additional Allocations to Fund
Projects through 9-30-84."
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Mr. Plummer: That is not what he said.
Mayor Ferre: That is what I heard the man say.
Mr. Plummer: No, you said no new projects.
Mr. Dawkins: No projects either, when you get that in, that is it.
Mr. Perez: Okay, personally I prefer to have the opportunity to
assess one by one. Personally, I am very interested in two of the new
projects that I think pay a service to this community and it is better
to assess one by one and to try to discuss and negotiate with all of
the people that are here. That is my personal position.
Mr. Dawkins: Well, I agree with you, but you didn't come back on time
when everybody was discussing this.
Mr. Perez: But, I was discussing by the figures.
Mr. Dawkins: Wait, now wait!
Mayor Ferre: Now, the Chair ... no, no!
Mr. Dawkins: Now, wait, I have the right...
Mayor Ferre: No, no.
Mr. Dawkins: The Chair has already been...
Mayor Ferre: No, Miller, Miller...come on Miller, I am chairing this
meeting and there is a motion on the floor. Your motion is on the
floor, and I don't want you to interrupt yourself! Okay, now, if you
will just keep quiet for a moment, we will see where we are going.
Now, you have made a motion, until I ask for a second. If you don't
get a second, then there is nothing to talk about.
Mr. Plummer: To give my friend Miller the chance to speak, I will
second the motion, but probably vote against it.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, all I am saying, Demetrio, is that what you want
to hear, the people already spoke and made their plea as to what they
need, so I mean - you have a right now, to hear them over, but what I
am saying is, you are taking us all through this again that we have
already heard. That is all.
Mr. Perez: I respect all your time and your dedication. I was in my
office on a long distance call, but I had the speaker there, and I
heard the statements that they made. I am familiar...
Mr. Dawkins: You don't need to hear it over, then!
Mr. Perez: No, for example about these two programs - okay, I notice
Youth Co-op. I think that they are requesting $30,000. I note that
they would be able to affect, for example, a proportion of that money;
that they didn't make any statement about direction about the other
one, the Southwest Service, they are requesting $64,000. I don't know
if we furnish $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, if this would be enough for
the service that they want to provide. And something else that I want
to clarify with this Southwest Service, I don't want to create any kind
of conflict with the Little Havana Food Service, and something that I
would like to have very clear in the record.
Mr. Dawkins: All you are saying is you want clarification on two pro-
grams, not all of them.
Mr. Perez: That is all. No, that is all.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Commissioner Perez is entitled, as is anybody
on this Commission to ask a question'of a specific program. Now, you
mentioned Southwest. Would Mrs. Penedo please come to the microphone
ld 62
JAN 51984
0 f
and would Ms. Carbonnel also come down here, since you are part of the
question. Now, the question to you, as I heard Commissioner Perez here,
that if you cannot get $64,378, what is the minimum amount of money that
you can live with and still have a viable program.
Ms. Penedo: We have been living with so little before that anything
would help.
Mayor Ferre: No, that is not an answer, Ma'am. Give us an answer!
Ms. Penedo: Right now, four months has elapsed since the F.R.S. funds
were applied for, and we figured we were asking for approximately
$5,000 per month, more or less. This was the $64,000. We would be
able to live with about $40►000.
Mayor Ferre: $40,000? $30,000?
Ms. Penedo: $40,000.
Mayor Ferre: Now, Ms. Penedo, you told me recently that if we gave you
$30,000, you were going to get $75,000 from the United Way.
Ms. Penedo: We are negotiating with the United Way.
Mayor Ferre: Well, but you told me $30,000. You said if you gave us
$30,000, we would get $75,000 from United Way.
Ms. Penedo: Well, $30,000 would give us money to be able to continue
the negotiations with United Way.
Mayor Ferre: Now, let me ask you this. If this Commission were to
accept your proposal, and it would be conditioned on your getting
$75,000. In other word, if we were to approve $30,000 on the condition
that you got United Way funds up to $75,000. Is that acceptable to
you?
Ms. Penedo: That would be fair enough, because if we don't have the
United Way...
Mayor Ferre: If you can't get the United Way, the $30,000 is of little
value to you.
Ms. Penedo: The $30,000 wouldn't do anything, but if we get the $30,000,
we would be able to get the United Way.
Mayor Ferre: All right, now, the second question that Commissioner
Perez asked was - Will this in any way affect the existing program of
the Little Havana Center? We need an answer from you on that.
Little Havana Activity Center. No, no - Mrs. Penedo.
Ms. Penedo: Well, in my opinion, I don't think that...
Mayor Ferre: Why?
Ms. Penedo:....it would affect Little Havana Activity Center. Little
Havana Activity Center has been active for many years. We came to that
area about four years ago. They still didn't have the St. Dominic
Garden...
Mayor Ferre: But they have St. Dominic's now, and you are going to be
about five blocks away, or ten blocks - how many blocks?
Ms. Penedo: They are on 57th & 7th, and we are on 8th and 73rd.
Mayor Ferre: You at this time do not have a food program.
Ms. Penedo: Yes, we do.We have a food program with non -recurring
funds from the area Agency on Aging, and right now...
Mayor Ferre: You are providing food for people?
ld 6U3 JAN 51984
0
Mr. Perez: Who provides the food? you, or Little Havana?
Ms. Penedo: We are providing food with non -recurring funds.
On a meeting held on December 21st at the area agency on
aging, Little Havana, until the negotiations for the $75,000 are
settled, is going to provide food for our participants.
Mayor Ferre: Are those State funds?
Ms. Penedo: No, Federal funds.
Mayor Ferre: Federal funds, through the State, all right.
Me. Perez: I think that Mrs. Carbonell told me that you are providing
the food for the......
64 JAN 51984
..
or
e
Ms. Penedo: As of tomorrow they will start providing.
Mayor Ferre: In other words Little Havana provides you the
food.
Ms. Penedo: As of tomorrow because our fundine stowed......
Mayor Ferre: Now, let me ask you, Ms. Penedo so we
understand. If this Commission votes for $30,6009 provided
it is matched by $75,000 from Metro, is it your intention to
continue using Little Havana to provide those meals?
Ms. Penedo: Well, on the December 21st Meeting
we decided to get together with Ms. Carbonell in Little
Havana and Mr. Fox, the director....
Mayor Ferre: Was the answer yes or no?
Ms. Penedo: Suggested that we go into a joint
venture.
Mayor Ferre: I asked you the question, and I can't get into
the•if's and maybes, is the answer yes or no, or you don't
know?
Ms. Penedo: I don't know, I haven't talked to
Josephina about it.
Mr. Perez: Okay, but personally, Mr. Mayor, in order to
avoid any duplication of services, I would like - personal-
ly, that is my own personal opinion - I would like to pro-
pose or to move to accept the proposal of the Southwest
Services conditioned that they contract the service of the
other agency, Little Havana because in other ways we would
have a duplication of services in the area.
Mayor Ferre: I understand. I will recognize you in a
little while for that motion. Let me repeat it to make sure
I understand what you're saying. Your motion is that this
Commission move to grant Southwest Services up to $30,000,
provided, however, two conditions are met (1) that they get
$75,000 from the United Way and (2) that they come to a
satisfactory contractual arrangement with Little Havana
Activity Center, is that correct?
Mr. Perez: That's right.
Mayor Ferre: Now, Ms. Carbonell, do you want to get in-
volved in this or not?
Mr. Dawkins: You don't have any choice, do you?
Ms. Carbonell: We have been trying to work out with the
AAA, the Area Agency on Aging for the $75,000. We both
applied for the area of Westchester which has nothing to do
with the City of Miami and that is the $75,000 that is up
for grabs between the two agencies. In the meantime, the
non -recurring funds which they had were eliminated December
30th. So to make sure that those people did not stay with-
out eating after the 30th of December, we made an agreement
that Little Havana would feed the people from Southwest
Social Services until some moneys would be resolved.
JAN 51984
RT
P
tt
Mr. Dawkins: If the money comes in, let's say the $30,000
and the $75,000, will this, and I'm just assuming that the
two agencies continue to work together, will this give you
the ability to feed more persons?
Ms. Carbonell: Well, I requested an extra amount of moneys
for the waiting list clients that are in the Little Havana,
the St. Dominics area and I think the original request was
in the 60's but since the months have passed there is only
$34,000 needed for the rest of the year, additional request
and that is for meals. I don't know how you're going to
take that, if you're going to go down the line or whatever.
I don't want to confuse you, but at the same time we have
requested at the previous Commission Meeting an extra...
Mr. Dawkins: Approximately how many persons out there
between the two agencies, off the top of your head, are not
being served?
Ms. Carbonell: Well, there is approximately 5,000 elderly
clients, I think Mrs. Penedo had the list, 5,000 elderly
clients that are living in the....
Mr. Dawkins: In the target area.
Ms. Carbonell: It is West Miami, Flagami and the
Westchester area, it is mixed so there is not a specific
breakdown of the areas. But there is a waiting list in our
area of St. Dominics that is not being served.
Mr. Dawkins: And that is in with the $5,000 or that is an
extra?
Ms. Carbonell: Well, this is Flagami only which is what we
deal with in St. Dominics.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, thank you.
Ms. Penedo: I would like to make something
clear. i don't have anything against Little Havana provid-
ing meals to our elderly. The only thing is that Little
Havana is not a catering service, they provide the meal
service. We provide meal service. So for us to contract
Little havana to provide meal services would be ...
Mr. Dawkins: Counter productive?
Ms. Penedo Right, not counter productive, but
it just would be excess work, excess paper work because they
do not cook their own meals. They contract a catering
service that provides their meals. We contract a catering
service that provides our meals. Right now we're negotiat-
ing lower prices with several catering services.
Mr. Dawkins: What I think what the Commissioner, and I'm
not trying to put words in his mouth, but I think what he is
saying is the same thing you are saying, that in the event
that the Little Havana area could go into a caterer with x-
number of meals then this person is able to demand a lower
price because of the volume. I think this is what he was
getting at.
Mr. Perez: I think Little Havana has had long experience in
serving the residents of the City of Miami and your experi-
ence for a long time were out of the limits of the City of
Miami and I think that we have to avoid any kind of duplica-
tion of service.
Ms. Penedo: But we don't have duulication of services.
Orb
00
JAN 51984
RT
f r:
Mr. Perez: It depends on your perception, but anyhow, I
think that Little Havana is a priority, the City has some
investment in Little Havana for a long time and Little
Havana.has made a strong investment in this community.
Ms. Penedo:
Oh, I agree with you 100$•
Mr. Perez: And I think that Little Havana has to be a
priority in order to save the money that we are spending
now.
Ms.Penedo: I understand what you're saying but
we can go and deal directly with the same catering service
that provides the meals for Little Havana, I don't see any
benefit for them or for us for them just to give us the
food.
Mr. Perez: Okay, if we present a motion that your assign-
ment would be subject to a contract with the Little Havana,
you don't accept that one?
Ms. Penedo! It isn't that I wouldn't accept it,
it is just that I ...
Mr. Perez: For example, if we have that motion, you are not
able to accept that motion?
Ms. Penedo: If you mean with the money that we
get to pay Little Havana to provide the food and for them to
provide....
Mr. Perez: That you contract the foods with Little Havana
and you have your own program but the part of the food that
you contract with Little Havana Services, that's what we
would like to propose. You don't accept that motion?
Ms. Penedo: Oh, I accept the motion, I just
don't see the....
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, let me ask not you a question. Mr.
Gary, if a motion is made, let me understand, that proposals
for $64,000. Right? So in other words, still coming under
the cap of 5.15 then we've got to reduce every program by
more than 26%.
Mr. Gary: Exactly.
Mr. Plummer: Okay, as long as we understand somewhere else
it's got to go. Now excuse me. Commissioner, I would assume
that in fairness, that since it is 4 months by the board,
this $64,000 would be reduced by at least 4 months of allo-
cation, $40,000. Now, excuse me, you might be doing your-
self a disservice. What is 8/12th of $64,000? No, if we're
going to apply the formula uniformly, tell me what is 8/12th
of $64,000.
Mr. Gary: Yes, but what she is saying to you is...
Mr. Plummer: I understand what she is saying. ....
$42,088? Okay, now what is 26% less than that? Wait a
minute, 26% doesn't apply anymore. So she has agreed to
accept $30,000?
Mr. Gary: That is what she asked for.
Ms. Spillman: Yes, she agreed that $30,000 would be ade-
quate.
JAN 51984
RT
f
A
Mr. Plummer: That's even better. Okay.
now is for $30,000.
Mr. Gary: Nov 8/12th of 30.
Ms. Spillman: No, $30,000.
Mr. Plummer: 8/12th of $30,000 or $30,000?
Ms. Spillman: $30,000.
Mr. Plummer: $30,000. Okay,
reduction. That's the point
think that is what she meant.
Ms. Spillman: It isn't.
So that request
but then subject to any other
I'm trying to make. I don't
Mr. Plummer: Okay, just leave it at that right now, we'll
argue about it later I'm sure.
Mr. Dawkins: That's $30,000 from the 515, right?
Mr. Plummer: Yes, it is going to come under that, sure, it
has to.
Mr. Gary: Since you're making a discussion, I think it
would be appropriate to ask the lady that the condition of
the United Way money of $75,000 has to come along with that,
is that $75,000 for Westchester or Little Havana.
Mr. Plummer: Okay, fair question. The other funding that
you're getting, from United Fund, is that for Flagami or
from Westchester? On the record, please. That is a fair
question.
The funding we requested is desig-
natedVa*gami-Westchester area.
Ms. Spillman: But it would be without the City of Miami,
not necessarily within the City of Miami.
Ms. Penedo: Well, the point is that the clients
we serve and we're serving right now are City of Miami
clients. The area that we have targeted is City of Miami
area.
Ms. Spillman: But the United Way funding is for non -City of
Miami residents.
Ms. Penedo- No, the United Way funding is for
clients that we're providing services to now and clients on
our waiting list now which includes clients in the Flagami
area, City of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: But I think the point is that no City of Miami
funds could go in any way towards the feeding of anybody but
people who are residents of the City of Miami.
Ms. Penedo The funds from the City of Miami
would be utilized to provide services to the residents of
the City of Miami.
Mayor Ferre: Would the maker of the motion include...
Mr. Plummer: There's no motion.
0
Mayor Ferre: Yes, he made a motion. He hasn't gotten a
second yet, but he made a motion. Now, would you put as a
third condition, that the moneys only be used for people who
are clearly and proveably residents of the City of Miami?
68 JAN 5 t984
RT
e
Mr. Plummer: Okay, question. Where is the other $95,504 of
your money coming from?
us. Penedo: - We have right now a CETA program
that is where part of uur money is coming from now.
Mr. Plummer: Your total budget, according to these figures
which I have, is $159,882. You are requesting, or did
request $64,378 which means, if you eliminate the City
money, your budget is $95,504. I'm asking where that money
is coming from.
Ms. Venedo: Part of that money is coming from
CETA, part of the money was the one that was used from the
non -recurring funds from the Area Agency on Aging and part
of the money was provided by HRS until June of 83.
Mr. Plummer: Well, then how can that be.... All right, I'm
not going to argue, I don't know you can include funds that
were of the last fiscal year in this year's total budget, I
don't know how you can do that.
Ms. Penedo: Our funding has different cycles,
that's why.
Mr. Perez: What do you have approved for your budget? You
have here from CETA $60,000, you have a request for
$115,000; the United Way $16,000 but that is approved or
only requested?
Ms. Penedo! The $16, 000 from the United Way
were approved and were used and the $60,000 from CETA were
approved and we are working with them now.
Mayor Ferre: All right, have we clarified the motion now
the way it is?
Mr. Plummer: Can I ask a question, please of Dena? Dena, of
the programs that you have listed here as new projects,
other than the one we have just discussed called Southwest
Services, how many of them address food or medical or relat-
ed?
Ms. Spillman: If you look on page 8, Commissioner, under
new projects, Southwest Services is the only food project in
priority III Youth in Need, we have several and then most of
them fall in the other category which are not your priori-
ties.
Mr. Plummer: Under new projects, the only one I see under
that category is Southwest Services, is that correct?
Ms. Spillman: Correct.
Mr. Plummer: Okay, medical related projects, there are
none.
Ms. Spillman: Correct.
Mr. Plummer: Youth in Need related projects there are a
number, six to be exact. Yes. Thank you.
Mayor Ferre: All right, we now have a motion on the floor.
Mr. Plummer: What was the motion?
Mayor Ferre: I will repeat the motion, and stop me if I
repeat it wrong. The motion is that Southwest Services be
funded up to $30,000 for the remainder of the Fiscal Year,
S9 JAN 51984
_ R T - - - --- -- - ----
r r
provided, however, that (1) they come to a contractual
relationship for those for the food services with the Little
Havana Activity Center and (2) That they be matched by
$75,000 of United Fund money and (3) that only residents of
the City of Miami will be fed with those funds.
Mr. Plummer: Second the motion in consistency with my
philosophy of feeding the hungry and taking care of the
sick, this qualifies.
Mayor Ferre: Further discussion? Call the roll on that
motion.
The preceding motion introduced by Commissioner Perez and
seconded by Commissioner Plummer was passed and adopted by
the following vote -
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mayor Ferre: The next one is Youth Coop. Go ahead.
Mr. Perez: What would be the minimum that you would be able
to accept?
UNIDENTIFIED/ SPEAKER -2: We can accept $22,000, we can do it
with no problem, $20,000 to $22,000.
Mr. Perez: When you mention $22,000, that's $22,000 for the
year.
UNIDENTIFIED/SPEAKER-2: The $22,000 for a year.
Mr. Perez: Now what we have is eight months.
UNIDENTIFIED/SPEAKER-2: Well, we're asking for the $30,000
for a year. If we use the same formula you used for the
rest I think you should use it.
Mayor Ferre: That takes it down to $20,000.
UNIDENTIFIED/SPEAKER-2: That's what I said, $20,000, I'm not
good in mathematics.
Mr. Perez: I propose that we assign the $20,000 to the
Youth Coop.
Mayor Ferre: Is there a second? Is there a second? Is
there a second to the motion? Obviously, for lack of a
second the motion dies. In a four member Commission, obvi-
ously there is no way that....
Mr. Plummer: Let me bring up a subject. Dena, it is rather
obvious to me this funding of the 8/12th takes us to the
first of February?
Ms. Spillman: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Okay. Dena, we've got to cut roughly
$300,000. That is roughly what we've got to cut. Now, it
is rather obvious to me that we have overlooked a very
important thing and that is that there are going to be
programs here that are going to be cut out completely. It
is rather obvious. Now, I don't think, Mr. Mayor, in my
70
JAN 51984
_ RT_ _ __
estimation, there is any program here that you cannot give a
wind down to. You know, if you're talking about a day care
center they've got to have time to make allocation to get
those kids somewhere else or do something with. Today is
the 5th of the month. I don't truthfully feel that 25 days
is adequate time. Now, all I'm saying is I don't want
somebody to come back later and then we've got to go through
all this formula again. I'm putting on the record right now
that you're probably going to have to carry these programs
through another month, especially the ones you're cutting
out completely and I'm just putting that on the records that
somebody had better start thinking about it.
Mayor Ferre: I want to tell you, so that nobody will have
any misunderstandings - I'm not saying that I'm going to get
three votes here, but I want to tell you what I'm going to
do. Accion is asking for - it is being recommended for
$44,812, they're asking for an additional $30,000 which in
effect really is $20,000, I'm going to move that in addition
to say the $45,000 that we grant them $109000 more and that
gives them $55,000. ASPIRA is asking for $50,000 and I'm
going to recommend that they get $30,000 and those are the
only two things that I'm going to move, just so that we
know.
Mr. Plummer: Well, that is fine, Mr. Mayor, 'but there are
about 15 other projects.
Mayor Ferre: I realize that. I mean hey, we started out, I
started out, Demetrio wanted....
Mr. Plummer: You've just about evened it out.
Mayor Ferre: Demetrio wanted to come in with his, that's
fine. If you want to come in, I'll recognize you or Miller.
Mr. Plummer: You've increased Accion by $11,000 and you've
decreased ASPIRA by $7,000, by $19,000.
Mayor Ferre: I'll do it formally. I move..... I move that
ACCION Community Center be funded up to $55,000 in what is
remaining of the fiscal year.
Mr. Plummer: Second the motion under the predicate that
this is related to food and medical, it meets my criteria.
Mr. Perez: Is the motion understood? Call the roll.
The preceding motion introduced by Mayor Ferre and
seconded by Commissioner Plummer was passed and adopted by
the following vote -
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Vice -Mayor Demetrio J. Perez
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mayor Ferre: Now I move you that ASPIRA of Florida be
funded for remains of this year $30,000.
Mr. Dawkins: I'll second.
Mr. Perez: Okay, motion understood? Call the roll.
71
RT JAN 51984
Thereupon, the preceding motion introduced by Mayor
Ferre and seconded by Commissioner Dawkins was passed and
adopted by the following vote -
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Vice -Mayor Demetrio J. Perez
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, let me ask a question. How much
did ASPIRA get last year?
Ms. Spillman: They got approximately $74,000, a bit less,
maybe.
Mr. Plummer: Okay, so it is not a new project?
Ms. Spillman: No, sir.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, I move that Coconut Grove Family Clinic
get $23,975 and the additional $19,939 that they requested.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute, where are you?
Mr. Dawkins: I'm down at Coconut Grove Family Clinic.
Mayor Ferre: They got $23,975.
Mr. Dawkins: And they asked for an additional $19,939, I
move that they get both of these.
Mr. Plummer: The additional amount, Miller, would be
$13,359 for 8/12th on the additional grant.
Mr. Dawkins: All right, so I'll give them 13 and 23, I move
that they get $46,000.
Mayor Ferre: All right, there is a motion on Coconut Grove
that they get - that's moving them up. The request is
$239975....
Mr. Plummer: It is $37,334.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, that's what we move.
Mayor Ferre: Is there a second?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, that does come under my priorities,
I second the motion.
Mayor Ferre: All right, call the roll.
The preceding motion introduced by Commissioner Dawkins
and seconded by Commissioner Plummer was passed and adopted
by the following vote- .
AYES: Commissioner.J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner Demetrio J. Perez
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
72
JAN 51984
_, •. - _
RT
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, I move JESCA, JESCA is supposed to get
$27,027, they requested an additional $60,000, if we apply
the same rule to $60,000, what do we come up with, J. L.?
Mr. Plummer: $40,000 was the 8!12th so it would be $67,000.
Mr. Dawkins: I move that JESCA get $67,000.
Ms. Spillman: Excuse me, Commissioners, I have to tell you
this is not for food.
Mr. Dawkins: What is it for then?
Ms. Spillman: It is for a computer program.
Mr. Dawkins: No way. Okay, I withdraw that.
Mayor Ferre: All right, Commissioner Perez has asked me if
I would not second the Youth Coop, so Miller, since he is
going to make the motion and I'm going to second...
Mr. Dawkins: Thank you, Dena.
Mr. Perez: Okay, I move the motion again for the Youth Coop
for $20,000.
Mr. Dawkins: I second it on the strength that if we have
any money left over I'd like to give it to ....
Mr. Plummer: Any money left over from where? From what?
Well now wait a minute, are you talking about Youth Coop at
the $30,000 or $20,000?
Mr. Dawkins: $20,000.
Mayor Ferre: It has been moved by Perez, seconded by
Dawkins. Further discussion? Call the roll.
The preceding motion introduced by Commissioner Perez,
seconded by Commissioner Dawkins was passed and adopted by
the following vote.
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Vice -Mayor Demetrio J. Perez
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe C-arollo
Mr. Plummer: It does not meet my criteria, I vote no.
Mayor Ferre: All right, anybody else? Plummer? Well, then
let's start going down the line: Allapattah Community
Action.
Mr. Plummer: Can we take a minute, Mr. Mayor, and hold
tight?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, sir. Mr. Hardwig.
Mr. Hardwig: The program that you disallowed, that is our
JESCA food program,, it has nothing to do with the computer
program whatsoever.
Mayor Ferre: No, you're going to get funded $39,541, it was
the additional $60,000 that we're talking about.
73
Mr. Hardwig: Okay, thank you.
Mr. Plummer: Can we hold tight for a minute?
Mayor Ferre: Well, I'm going to tell you my next motion is
Little Havana Activity Center.
Mr. Plummer: Hold on just a minute, please.
Mayor Ferre: I'm going to make a motion that they receive
$25,000 additional funds. Commissioner Perez, I think the
motion was made that Little Havana Community Center be
granted an additional $25,000. And who seconded the motion?
Plummer, are you ready to vote?
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute, excuse me, what was that on?
Mayor Ferre: Little Havana Community Center.
Mr. Plummer: They have asked for an additional $76,0009 is
that correct?
Mayor Ferre: And I'm just saying that they get an addition-
al $25,000. You've got an additional $10,000, is what we
did.
Mr. Plummer: Well, let me stop and figure here.
Mr. Octavio Blanco: Mayor, the only thing is that I don't
know my figures, my mathematics were wrong, I was asking for
$30,000, I got $10,000.
Mr. Plummer: No, that's not true. No. You got $20,000.
Mayor Ferre: Blanco, instead of the $44,812, you were going
to receive $55,000.
Mr. Blanco: It is $11,000.
Mr. Plummer: Correct.
Ms. Spillman: For 8 months.
Mr. Blanco: Yes, Dena, can I explain?
Ms. Spillman: Pardon me.
Mr. Blanco: Coconut Grove Clinic asking for $19,939 and
they got $13,000. I don't know how they asked for less
money than I do but they get more money than I got.
Mr. Gary: So what?
Mr. Plummer: Because Ferre made one motion and Dawkins made
another.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I have no problems of making it an equal
amount of money, is that what the thing is? I've got no
problems with making what was it, $13,000? How much was it?
Mr. Plummer: $13,000 additional on ...
Mayor Ferre: I've got no problems in making it $13,000
additional instead oif $11,000.
Mr. Plummer: No, that's not what he is saying. He is
saying apply the same percentage which would make him
$64,000 rather than the $55,000.
74
RT I Ara 51984
Mayor Ferre: No, we're going to get ourselves into what
we're already into which is a totally arbitrary allocation
of funds.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I think we had better keep two
things in mind - We're running pretty wild. First of all,
the wind down money for those agencies that are going to be
eliminated and by the action already taken, instead of being
200 ---
Mayor Ferre: Wait a minute, Plummer, we've got a motion and
we're waiting for Miller. I made a motion that Little
Havana be granted an additional $25,000 and Perez seconds so
we've got a motion on the floor right now.
Mr. Plummer: So in other words instead of the 183, you're
saying to make that 108?
Mayor Ferre: My motion is that Little Havana Activity
Center has requested an addition of $76,000.
Mr. Plummer: right.
Mayor Ferre: I'm saying besides the 183,530, 73,195 for
Peters Plaza, 47,429 for Safe House and 62,906 for St.
Dominics, that they get an additional $25,000.
Mr. Plummer: So you're talking about giving them
$208,000...
Mayor Ferre: It is $183,530, plus $73,195 plus $47,429...
Ms. Spillman: No, Mayor, the 183 is the total.
Mr. Plummer: No, that is the total of the three bottom
ones.
Mayor Ferre: I stand corrected. In addition to the
$183,530, $25,000.
Mr. Dawkins: Going along the lines of what Plummer said,
all four of these activities deal with feeding people?
Mr. Plummer: Is there a second to the motion?
Mr. Dawkins: Yes, the motion has been seconded but we're
still under discussion.
Mr. Plummer: Okay, under discussion, it meets my criteria.
Mr. Dawkins: Any further discussion?
Thereupon the preceding motion introduced by Mayor
Ferre and seconded by Commissioner Perez was passed and
adopted by the following vote -
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Vice -Mayor Demetrio J. Perez
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mayor Ferre: Now I move you that $103,993 be allocated to
HACAD.
Mr. Dawkins: Second.
15
RT JAN 51984
Mr. Plummer: All right, under discussion, first of all, not
relating to HACAD, I've been trying to say this now. Where
we were in the beginning, we were $2319000 shy. We are now
$360,000 shy and we have not considered any wind down
money.
INAUDIBLE COMMENTS
Mr. Plummer: Dena, what percentage of HACAD is food or
medical? I know that two of HACAD's is legal. What per-
centage of their's is food?
Ms. Spillman: Their food is 39%.
Mr. Plummer: And what per cent is medical?
Ms. Spillman: None.
Mr. Plummer: Okay. You're not, Mr. Mayor, cutting it down
to just the food or medical?
Mayor Ferre: I'm making motion that HACAD be funded for
$103,993.
Mr. Plummer: And that includes the two lawyers.
Mr. Dawkins: Yes, 4 lawyers if possible.
Mayor Ferre: The Haitian community has very very little to
go on.
Mr. Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, I'm not going to argue, but
here again I want to tell you that under HACAD they are
receiving, if they get their full grant from the City, and
that is $141,000 is only 13% of their total money. They are
receiving $1,031,183• So you know, here again, we do not
have the breakdown as to how the rest of that money is
spent.
Mr. Dawkins: Hold it. We don't have a break down on how
none of it is spent.
Mr. Plummer: I understand that. I'm saying because I've
asked every time is it for food or for medical.
Mr. Dawkins: And they say no.
Mr. Plummer: Well, excuse me, Mr. Dawkins, it is pretty
obvious with the little nutrition center where that money is
going - that is food. Okay? I asked of the Southwest, that
was food. Coconut Grove Family, that is self-explanatory,
that is medical. The ACCION Committee was for delivering
for food and delivering for medical, that is obvious. So
yes, this is the first time I have questioned. Okay? So I
want that on the record. I'm not picking on HACAD, so don't
get me wrong. I would fund immediately 40% of their request
because it addresses food. My priorities remain the same.
INAUDIBLE COMMENT FROM AUDIENCE
Mr. Plummer: Ma'am, the public hearing is closed. If
somebody wishes to call on you you're welcome but the public
hearing is closed.
The preceding motion 'introduced by Mayor and seconded
by Commissioner Dawkins was passed and adopted by the fol-
lowing vote -
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
r&
RT
J A N 51984
Vice -Mayor Demetrio J. Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mr. Plummer: I want on the record I would have liked to
have voted for that portion relating to the food but the
motion was not presented that way.
Mr. Gary: Mr. Mayor, I think it may be appropriate at this
time for us to give you a total.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, sir, go ahead.
Mr. Plummer: I just gave you a total. $360,000.
Mr. Gary: No, we've got to give you another total.
Mr. Plummer: $359,087.
Mr. Gary: $511,..... Why don't you call off what you have.
Mayor Ferre: The items approved that I understand so far
are Accion Community Center $55,000. Belafonte Tacolcy, did
we approve that?
Mr. Plummer: No.
Mayor Ferre: ASPIRA $30,000.
Mr. Plummer: Correct. That is the only one in the minus
column, by the way, they were asking for 37.....
Mayor Ferre: HACAD $103,993, Coconut Grove Family Services
$37,334, Little Havana Activity Center $183,530 plus
$25,000.
Mr. Plummer: $208,000 is Little Havana.
Mayor Ferre: Okay, what is the total? Southwest Services
$30,000, Youth Co-op $20,000. How much does that total?
Unidentified speaker: We also have JESCA, $27,027.
Mayor Ferre: Yes, you're right.
Mr. Plummer: No, that was not voted on.
Mayor Ferre: Oh, yes, it was.
Mr. Gary: You didn't vote any additional.
Mr. Plummer: You never voted on it. That's correct.
Mayor Ferre: I move that JESCA be granted $27,027.
Mr. Dawkins: I second.
The preceding motion introduced by Mayor Ferre and
seconded by Commissioner Dawkins was passed and adopted by
the following vote -
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Demetrio J. Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
77
RT J.AN 51984
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mr. Plummer: Dena, is that for food?
Ms. Spillman: JESCA, yesr sir.
Mr. Plummer: I vote yes.
Mayor Ferre: Okay, what is the total so far?
Mr. Gary: Mr. Mayor, can we go down the list with the names
and the amounts and give you a total?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, go ahead.
Ms. Spillman: Accion $55,000.
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Ms. Spillman: ASPIRA $30,000.
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Ms. Spillman: Coconut Grove Family Clinic $37,334.
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Ms. Spillman: Youth Co-op $20,000
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Ms. Spillman: Little Havana Activity and Nutrition Center
$208,530•
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Ms. Spillman: HACAD $iO3,993•
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Ms. Spillman: JESCA $27,027.
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Ms. Spillman: Southwest Social Services $30,000.
Mayor Ferre: Yes.
Ms. Spillman: And that totals $511,884.
Mr. Plummer: So.we have $4,000 left to spend.
Mayor Ferre: That's it.
Mr. Plummer: Which you really don't have because it will
take more than that to wind down the remaining programs.
Mayor Ferre: What you, in effect, have done is you have
killed St. Alban's Day Care Center, the Miami Jewish
Home/Douglas Gardens, Los Viejos Utiles. We've already
voted for the Industrial Home for the Blind, haven't we?
Ms. Spillman: No, you have to add it in. We also have to
add in administration.
Mr. Plummer: Oh, no', you get cut too.
Mayor Ferre: First United Methodist Church is out, Centro
Caribeno, CCS Overtown... I'm going to get to you in a
78 1A AI
4 C
moment. Miami Bridge, Allapattah Community Action is out.
You see? Do you see what we have done? Now, that's right,
that's exactly what has happened. Now, I now want to make a
motion that all of what we've been doing in the past half
hour and all of these foolish motions going one by one all
be rescinded and we start all over again. I so move. Do
you get the point of how we can't do this?
Mr. Plummer: No, you haven't got a second.
Mayor Ferre: And I'll tell you what my second motion is
going to be.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, you haven't passed your first.
Mayor Ferre: Well, I want to explain what the second is so
maybe I can get a second.
Mr. Plummer: It is out of order until you get a second. We
don't allow lobbying.
Mr. Gary: Executive privilege.
Mr. Plummer: No executive privilege, when he made the
motion he stepped out of the executive chair.
Mayor Ferre: All right, before I make the motion, will the
chair recognize me for making a statement?
Mr. Perez: Sure.
Mr. Plummer: I challenge the chair. I bring it to a vote,
I challenge the chair.
Mayor Ferre: I've not a motion yet, for the purposes of
making a statement.
Mr. Plummer: No, I'm talking about even to let you speak.
Mayor Ferre: Ladies and gentlemen, I did not stop the
proceedings before because I knew that after about 10 min-
utes of our taking care of each of our own turkeys' we would
immediately run out of money and we would leave important
programs such as the St. Alban's Day Care, the Miami Jewish
Home/Douglas Gardens, Los Viejos Utiles, Industrial Home for
the Blind, the First United Methodist church, CCS Overtown
Day Care and others like Allapattah Community Action without
funding. Now, do you understand that it is impossible for
us to get blood out of a turnip? We cannot do the impossi-
ble. We only have $515,000 and if we each take care of our
own little turkeys what is going to happen is that there are
going to be some very important programs that are going to
be left out and I submit to you that that is irresponsible
and, therefore, I plead with you that we go back to where we
are and we do it on a formula basis and not do it on an
individual basis and, therefore, I move that all of the
previous motions that have been made on an individual basis
be rescinded.
Mr. Perez: Is there a second?
Mayor Ferre: Okay, here we are. For lack of a second,
obviously it dies. Now, what is the next thing?
Mr. Gary: Mr. Mayor, as an aside subject, we need to ad-
dress the issue of administration.
Mr. Plummer: No, you address that, we've addressed our
problem, you address yours.
79 J A N 5 1984
RT
Mr. Gary: No, the administration is a part of this alloca-
tion process.
Mr. Plummer: No, we say no.
Mr. Gary: Well, all I can say to you is that the require-
ments of monitoring these programs is becoming more strin-
gent as dictated by not only ourselves but the State Attor-
ney's Office and I think you need to reconsider that.
Mr. Plummer: Agreed, you've got to streamline your adminis-
trative office by 26%.
Mr. Gary: You didn't cut everybody else by 26%.
Mr. Plummer: Well, it has to be cut by 26%.
Mr. Gary: Nobody else got by 26%, you've got the same level
of funding, the same responsibilities.
Mr. Plummer: No, you've got less responsibility now, you
have cut out about 10 programs.
Mr. Gary: No, they could have been funded anyway.
Mayor Ferre: Let me give this another try. I would like to
make a motion that we go back to the existing projects as
they have been funded and follow the administration's recom-
mendations as they have been made.
Mr. Plummer: We can't do that, Maurice, you can't do it
because then you're at a level of $705,000 plus $31,000.
Mayor Ferre: No, less 26%. In other words, the administra-
tion's recommendations be adhered to exactly as they have
been recommended less 26% and that all previous motions be
rescinded simultaneously.
Mr. Perez: I will second the motion, if we can act the.....
Mr. Plummer: I'll go along with the motion but, he can
reconsider the two but I'm not going to vote for them, I've
already said that.
Mayor Ferre: I'm saying that you can't have your turkey and
eat it too. Now, if you want to have a turkey, fine, but
realize that you're going to be hurting a lot of very impor-
tant programs. Now, if you want to do it the only fair way
to do this is to not put ourselves in being the ultimate
judges based on other considerations, follow the administra-
tion's recommendations and just stick with it and bite the
bullet and the recommendation is that we spend $515,000, and
since we've taken 4 months to come to this decision that
everybody be reduced accordingly. Now, I so move.
Mr. Plummer: I like the other motion better.
Mayor Ferre: Do you want me to go back to that one? I've
forgotten what the other motion was. I move that all previ-
ous motions on specific allocations be rescinded.
Mr. Plummer: So move.
Mayor Ferre: You mean so second.
Mr. Plummer: Mas o menos.
The preceding motion. introduced by Mayor Ferre and
seconded by Commissioner Plummer failed to pass by the
following vote-
RT
f?19 JAB, 51984
9
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mayor Ferre: All right, we got a 2 - 2 vote on that which
means it fails. right?
Mr. Ongie: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: I'll move it again. I move that this Commis-
sion follow the administration's recommendation down to the
"T". So move.
Mr. Perez: Do we have a second?
Mr. Plummer: All joking aside, I can't, I cannot, that does
not meet the criteria previously made of this Commission
because then you're talking to $736,000 and we only have
$515,000 to spend.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Chairman, I've made a motion, Mr. Plummer
is out of order, you have to ask for a second three times
and if there is no second then the motion dies.
Mr. Dawkins: The Mayor is correct.
Mr. Plummer: I'll give him one.
Mayor Ferre; Second?
Mr. Plummer: No, but you're right, that I was out of order.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Chairman, ask for a second.
Mr. Perez: Do we have any second? Do we have any second to
this motion? For the last time, do we have any second?
Mayor Ferre: And then you've got to get up and say, "You
are out!"
Mr. Plummer: No, Demetrio doesn't say that, Suarez does.
Mayor Ferre: Who? Now, you know what you've done, you've
out out Allapattah from any money. Do you think that is
right?
Mr. Plummer: No.
Mayor Ferre: You've cut the Miami Home for the Aged out of
money, do you think that is right?
Mr. Plummer: No.
Mayor Ferre: Well, let's get off of this dead center then.
Plummer, then make your motion, if you would, and I'll
second it on a formula.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I go back to 14 years, that we take
$515,000 and we address feeding the hungry and taking care
of the sick and all related to those two activities and the
rest we'll talk about if there is anything left over.
Mayor Ferre: I will second that motion.
Mr. Plummer: Let them apply it.
R T 8+�
1 JAN *51984
r
r
Mayor Ferre: I second that motion. In other words you take
care of the hungry and the sick and all those that are
related and those that are not dealing with the hungry or
the sick are out.
Mr. Plummer: No, Mr. Mayor, please, listen to my motion
again: That we first prioritized to feed the hungry, second
prioritized is to take care of the sick; the third priori-
tized is to related services to support those first two and
any other moneys that might be left over we'll talk about.
Now, for example HACAD, I'll immediately vote right now for
40% because it relates to food and if any of it relates to
medical....
Mayor Ferre: No, Plummer, because I'll tell you what is
going to happen, because if HACAD has any common sense
they'll turn the whole program over to a food program and
ask you for $106,000 for food.
Mr. Plummer: And I'll vote for it. I've got no problem
with that. All my motion did was address priorities.
That's what my motion did.
Mr. Dawkins: Under discussion, I need clarification, a
point of information. Once we give this back to staff to do
what your motion requires and staff brings it back to us,
will we Okay it or are we going to sit up here and go
through this same process of what program was dropped and
what wasn't?
Mr. Plummer: To answer your question, Commissioner Dawkins,
as bad as I would like to have your vote, I have to tell you
quite candidly, sir, I will never relinquish my right to
speak out on any subject if I don't think it is proper.
I've never relinquished that.
Mr. Dawkins: Well, then what are we standing staff back
for, Commissioner?
Mr. Plummer: We're sending staff back to come back to us
with a recommendation relating to those priorities.
Mayor Ferre: M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E.
Mr. Perez: All right, do we have any other discussion of
this motion? Call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner
Plummer, who moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 84-9
A MOTION OF THE CITY COMMISSION RESCIND-
ING ALL PREVIOUSLY PASSED MOTIONS OF
THIS DATE IN CONNECTION WITH THE ALLOCA-
TION OF FEDERAL REVENUE SHARING FUNDS;
FURTHER DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO
DEVISE A FORMULA FOR THE UTILIZATION OF
THE REMAINING FEDERAL REVENUE SHARING
FUNDS FOR FY-183-184 IN THE AMOUNT OF
$515,000; AND FURTHER STIPULATING THAT
IN DEVISING SAID FORMULA, THE CITY
MANAGER SHALL FOLLOW THE HEREINBELOW
LISTED PRIORITIES ESTABLISHED BY THE
COMMISSION:.
a) FIRST PRIORITY WOULD BE ADDRESSING
THE NEEDS OF THE HUNGRY;
b) SECOND PRIORITY WOULD BE TAKING CARE
OF THE SICK;
RT
J A N 5 1984
c) THIRD PRIORITY WOULD BE ANY RELATED
SUPPORT -SERVICES PROGRAMS RELATED TO
a) AND b), ABOVE;
FURTHER STIPULATING THAT IF AFTER
ADDRESSING THE ABOVE -CITED PRIORITIES THERE
WERE ANY FUNDS LEFT, THAT SAID FUNDS WOULD BE
FURTHER DISCUSSED BY THE CITY COMMISSION FOR
FINAL ALLOCATION TO OTHER PROGRAMS.
Upon being seconded by Mayor Ferre, the motion was
passed and adopted by the following vote -
AYES:
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mr. Dawkins: I make a motion we adjourn.
Mr. Plummer: No, we've got to have a motion now as to when
it comes back.
Mr. Gary: You've got to fund them ....
Mr. Plummer: No, we've got funding until the first of
February.
Mayor Ferre: Can you come back at the next meeting which is
now the 19th?
Mr. Gary: No, we can't come back that early.
Mr. Plummer: No, they can come back before the 19th.
Mr. Gary: We can come back in February or March.
Mr. Plummer: No, sir, you cannot. No, he doesn't tell us,
we tell him.
Mayor Ferre: Plummer moves that this matter be brought up
on January 26th.
Mr. Plummer: No, sir, I move that this matter be brought
back to us on January 18th which at that time we are also
discussing Watson Island.
Mayor Ferre: Is there a second?
Mr. Dawkins: Second.
Mayor Ferre: Further discussion? Call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner
Plummer, who moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 84-10
A MOTION DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO
BRING BACK HIS RECOMMENDATIONS PURSUANT
TO DIRECTIONS CONTAINED IN M-84-9 FOR
DISCUSSION AT THE CITY COMMISSION MEET-
ING NOW SCHEDULED FOR JANUARY 18, 1984.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner X, the motion
was passed and adopted by the following vote-
RT on JAN 51984
f
AYES:
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mayor Ferre: All right, now, Mr. Perez, I give you the
Chair and I make the following motion: That for the next
year the City of Miami Commission turn over the evaluation
process to a committee, that the committee be the United Way
of Dade County, that the Committee recommend directly to the
Manager and that the Manager, after taking into account the
United Way's recommendations and with staff's supervision,
recommend to the Commission the allocation of these funds.
And lastly, that this Commission can only overturn the
Manager's recommendations down by a four -fifths vote.
Mr. Dawkins: I make a substitute motion, please, Mr. Vice -
Mayor.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute, how can you make a substitute,
that one hasn't even got a second yet? It might die and you
don't need a substitute.
Mr. Perez: Do I have any second?
Mr. Plummer: No.
Mr. Dawkins: Okay, I'm going to make one just like the
Mayor. I'd like to see that we turn this over to Urban
League and let the Urban League come back to us. It dies
for the lack of a second? Okay, no problem.
Mr. Plummer: Well wait a minute, everybody is making brown-
ie points, I move that we give it to Little Havana, let the
gringo recommend.
Mayor Ferre: Little Havana what?
Mr. Plummer: Little Havana Activity Center.
Mayor Ferre: They're not a bona fide agency.
Mr. Plummer: Neither is the United Fund when they come here
asking for money to try to administer their own.
Mayor Ferre: Oh yes they are, J. L.
Mr. Perez: I would like to present a motion that we appoint
for the next year a committee appointed by five members,
designated one by each member of this Commission to make the
and the recommendation for the next Commission Meet-
ing.
Mayor Ferre: Mr. Manager, would you concur with that?
Mr. Plummer: Well, that is a way to reduce the administra-
tive costs.
Mayor Ferre: Howard, what*we have does not work.
Mr. Dawkins:
staff.
It doesn't .work because we don't listen to
RT RA
C7'3 M4 51984
Mr. Gary: If you just put another body there, I mean if you
guys decide you're not going to ...
Mr. Plummer: No, what that motion is basically doing is
taking it out of the hands of Community Development.
Mr. Gary: But still, the problem isn't Community Develop-
ment, the problem is up here in terms of making a decision.
Mr. Dawkins: Well, say it on the mike, don't say it under
your breath.
Mr. Gary: I wasn't saying it under my breath, the mike just
wasn't on. The issue is, the problem is not Community
Development and my staff, the problem is we can't make a
decision here. So to add another layer, and you still can't
make a decision or you don't accept our recommendation or
anybody's recommendation, you've still got a problem, you're
Just adding another layer.
UNINTELLIGIBLE CONVERSATION
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, let's talk some turkey now. Okay?
Let me tell you where the real problem is. This Commission
is derelict in not telling staff what our policy is.
Mayor Ferre: That's not so.
Mr. Plummer: Oh yes it is. Excuse me, Mr. Mayor, staff
comes up here without any direction from this Commission and
makes its recommendations.
Mayor Ferre: That's not so, that just simply is not so.
This Commission has gone on record specifically and if
You'll look at the record it is a very complicated very
specific recommendation as to how these moneys will be
allocated. And I want you to know, Mr. Plummer, that this
goes back 4 years and you voted on the motion. And the
motion is a very complicated very extensive very detailed
instructions as to how to go about doing this.
Mr. Plummer: No, the only thing you said was no new pro-
grams.
Mayor Ferre: No, we went through a public hearing, we
discussed it, staff came back with recommendations and we
adopted it as a formal policy of this City as to how to go
about allocating these funds. Am I right or am I wrong, Mr.
Manager?
Mr. Gary: That's correct, and Mr. Mayor, if you read, I
took exactly almost what Commissioner Plummer says. In my
first report to you it says, The City Commission established
the following projects we followed on the types of social
services that would be funded with FRS Funds and Community
Development Funds - feed the hungry, house the poor, exact
words, heal the sick and create jobs.
Mayor Ferre: Now, Mr. Manager, I beg your pardon. Prior to
that motion and those words, this Commission three to four
years ago, a previous Commission, went on record after a
long series of hearings and adopted a precise formula based
on ethnic basis, neighborhood basis, and we went through the
whole ball of wax including what types of....
Mr. Plummer: It was not Federal Revenue Sharing, Maurice,
it was Community Development on making target areas.
Mayor Ferre: Was it Community Development?
RT JAN 51X4
Mr. Plummer: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: We've never done it for Federal Revenue Shar-
ing?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, today is more a joke than it has
been a joke every year. After going through this comical -
you know, that's what it is - this comical procedure, every-
body wants to make a motion that next year we're going to do
better. I've heard that motion for 14 years. Now, the
problem is that every year there is less money, less money
and more asking for more. Now, there is no magical formula.
I say to you you you must set guidelines and priorities,
which we've done. Now staff goes back, they take and dedi-
cate the moneys to the food and medical and accessory and if
there is any left over they will come back and say, we have
X-number of dollars left over and these are the things, if
you wish to call them turkeys we can hand out our turkeys
after the main priorities are met.
Mayor Ferre: Well, that will never happen. All right, Dena
Spillman, I'll tell you what, I'll make one last motion
here. I move that this City Commission adopt a set of
policies for Federal Revenue Sharing for next year similar
to the policy that we have previously adopted for Community
Development and that Dena Spillman take the C. D. Policy,
adapt it to Federal Revenue Sharing, taking into account the
motion of Commissioner Plummer accepted by this Commission
of feeding the hungry, those that are medically in need and
the youth and the indigent - in that order, as I recall -
and incorporating that but coming back with a formula that
no one group gets more than a certain percentage, that no
geographical area gets so much than a certain percentage and
that the allocation be based on some kind of a formula.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, there is nothing I would rather
vote for because I think it is fair but it is not practical.
You are taking the eight target areas that exist in Communi-
ty Development. That means that at the present time over
$150,000 of that money, under that formula, would go to the
downtown CBO. Okay? Or to the downtown area.
Mayor Ferre: No.
Mr. Plummer: It is one of the eight target areas.
Mayor Ferre: No, that's not what I said. That's not what I
mean. What I'm saying is that we take that formulae, forget
the target areas, and have staff come back with specific
general guidelines in general terms. That doesn't mean that
downtown is getting anything, it means that we take a formu-
lae and that we adapt a formula basis for how we're going to
allocate these funds next year so that we don't get into
this quagmire.
Mr. Plummer: Can we take care of this year first?
Mayor Ferre: We've already done that, that motion has
already been made and passed.
Mr. Plummer: But we haven't allocated it.
Mayor Ferre: You" left that up to the Manager, sir, the way
I understood the motion, and we all voted for it.
Ms. Spillman: Could I add, in order that we don't have to
spend as much time next time, can I get some clarification
from you? If I could get some clarification so that we
could make this process neater on the 18th, I believe it is,
are we to consider new projects under your criteria or only
old projects?
RT
$6 JA N 5 1984
Mr. Plummer: You're asking the maker of the motion the
answer, and addressing exactly what I have in front of me,
the only one you can address is Southwest. It addresses a
food program and I have no problems with the stipulations
put on there.
Ms. Spillman: So we're to address all the applications.
Mr. Plummer: Dena, in some cases....
Ms. Spillman: Then you wonder why I can't give you recom-
mendations.
Mr. Plummer: Well, I don't understand why you don't under-
stand.
Mayor Ferre: I think what the man is saying to you is the
only one that fits food is Southwest.
Ms. Spillman: That's fine, then the answer is yes, we
consider new projects. Fine.
Mayor Ferre: And, therefore, the answer is yes.
Mr. Plummer: Okay.
Ms. Spillman: Okay, second question. If it is only food
related for the top priority, as you just mentioned, does
HACAD tomorrow have the opportunity to run into my office
and change their proposal?
Mr. Plummer: No, no, as presented.
Mayor Ferre: That's not fair.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, whatever is left over we will talk
about. Okay? Now, do you have a better formulae?
Ms. Spillman: Well, let me ask you this. If I say to you
that hypothetically 39% of HACAD is food related...
Mr. Plummer: I'll vote for that immediately.
Ms. Spillman: What does related mean?
Mr. Plummer: Food related, it is food, you're serving
hungry people.
Ms. Spillman: It means food?
Mayor Ferre: It also means transporting the old people...
Mr. Plummer: Right, that's what you've got to figure out, I
can't. I don't know.
Mayor Ferre: Well, on the one hand you say you want to set
the policy and on the other hand you tell her to figure it
out. Now which is it?
Mr. Plummer: No, excuse me, Mr. Mayor, I don't know when it
says 39% for food, I'm assuming that is food. Okay? Now,
if they have transportation as an accessory...
Ms. Spillman: Well, someone has to hand it out.
Mayor Ferre: They've to clean the dishes, somebody has got
to cook it, somebody has to....
RT 97
JA N 5 1984
Mr. Plummer: I understand all of that, so then it is 44% or
45%. Look, I'll tell you what I am willing to vote on right
now. Okay? You take every one of these programs and take
the percentage of that program that is food, medical or
accessory and I'll vote on it right now. I'll vote on it
right now. That's where I am. Then the rest of it we can
talk about but by God, I want to feed the people and I want
to take care of the sick first. You want to put me down for
that so be it.
Ms. Spillman: All right, I need to ask you this question
again. Please, are people allowed to re -do their proposals
or aren't they?
Mr. Plummer: Absolutely not. How can you do that? Every
one of them are going to come back 100% food.
Ms. Spillman: That's fine, I just want to know, I just am
asking the question. And one further question. Are agen-
cies allowed to ask for additional funding?
Mr. Plummer: No.
Ms. Spillman: No additional, the book is closed. Okay.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me. Miami Jewish Home for the Aged had
put in a different proposal prior to today. Excuse me,
prior to today. I would accept that proposal as it stood
before us today.
Mayor Ferre: Oiy vay.
Mr. Plummer: No, fair is fair. As it stood, as any appli-
cation stood before us today.
Mayor Ferre: Ringo, tell us how fair that is.
Mr. Cayard: If it is possible for a few moments.
Mayor Ferre: Sure.
Mr. Cayard: The thing is that everybody has been talking
about HACAD. My name is Ringo Cayard , 5700 N.W. 7th Ave-
nue. Everybody has been talking about HACAD this, HACAD
that, you know, which is fine. In that community we have
enough problems already. We have been affected by the AIDS
problem, we have been affected that Pink Eye a few years
ago, we've been affected by people kicking the Haitians out
on the streets just because they are Haitians. When you have
an organization like HACAD which is the only one coming in
front of the City and asking for some money, of course, a
little bit of it has to go to the lawyers. Otherwise, if
there is no lawyers they're going to keep on kicking us out
of those apartments just because we are Haitian or somebody
suspects that we have AIDS. So by being here and
argumenting and all that, we understand that. You have a
very hard task, you know, to perform, but, we also have some
problems in the community. We are a new community and we
have been trying for a long time to have and to be self-
sufficient. We don't come in and beg for everything in the
city all the time, this is a different community. There are
rules and each rule has exceptions. We are not like the
other communities and I want everybody to understand that.
We are Haitians and we have a lot of problems to face.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me. Sir, I cannot let you make such a
statement without putting on the record that your community
is receiving the largest grant of money of all of this City.
Mr. Cayard : Which is how much?
1010
RT 00 JA N 51984
6 6
Mr. Plummer: Immaterial. You and your community, the
Haitian community are receiving $141,810 is what you've
requested, that was granted and you are receiving more than
Liberty City, you are receiving more than Overtown, you are
receiving more than Coconut Grove, you are receiving more
than Little Havana. Sir, I don't know how you can stand
there and say that this Commission has not been fair with
you.
Mr. Cayard : I'm not saying you aren't fair, what I'm
saying is that Martin Technical are receiving $175,000 which
is more than the Haitian community and this is an institu-
tion.
Mr. Plummer: Sir, what I'm saying to you is you are in this
funding the largest single recipient of all of the moneys.
Mr. Cayard: The second largest, yes.
Mr. Plummer: Who is the first?
Mr. Cayard: Martin Technical College $175,000.
Mr. Plummer: Oh, I stand corrected, you are correct, sir.
I absolutely stand corrected.
Mr. Cayard: But we have to understand this is a different
community. We have been there for only 5 or 6 years trying
to break out back to make a living out of it and the other
communities don't have those problems such as AIDS, such as
Pink Eyes, such as poor people or whatever you can call it.
We have a lot of things to face, a lot of problems. So next
year, if you want, that's fine, move on to some different
subject to be taken care of for next year but at least you
know for this year let's try to do something together. These
people have been coming here since October back and forth
and it is very impossible for them to work due to the fact
that the lawyers are shaking, the people, the accountants
are shaking, everybody is shaking in that office because
they don't know what is going to happen to them and we just
can't operate like that. We are dealing with 40 or 50,000
people who just arrived here trying to make something out of
it. If nobody gives them a hand, how do you expect them to
be self-sufficient?
Mr. Plummer: Sir, this City Commission and administration
have been shaking for a year because we knew this day was
coming. We knew we did not have ample funds to meet the
demand, the legitimate demand. Okay? So all I'm saying to
you, sir, nobody is getting everything that they want.
Mr. Cayard: We're not asking for everything, this was
recommended for $153,000 not by us, that was recommended by
the City Manager and by the organization.
Mayor Ferre: Ringo, the Manager recommended something, he
recommended funding for your program and you've got my vote.
Okay? I think you've got Dawkins' vote. You need a third
vote. And you have a third vote and I'm just telling you
right off the bat that you have three votes for the full
funding.
Mr. Cayard:
Mr. Plummer:
ahead.
Thank you.
You're An great shape, stop while you're
Mayor Ferre: So, you know,'now that obviously screws up all
of the stuff that we've told Dena and this is why I keep
JAN 51984
RT
i 6
telling you that we are going around in a circle like we
always do on these issues because they are so difficult and
I think the only thing really to do is to go back to the
Manager's recommendation and follow it or if we're not going
to do that then go by professional staff's recommendation
and then we ought to get another professional staff and that
is why I recommend the United Way. And if that's not ac-
ceptable, fine, then we go through this every year. Don't
complain.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I've got to put o the record, if we
were to go with the Manager's recommendation cutting every
program 26%. Okay? That's one thing, but I want to tell
you we have gone through five different processes today. I
must say to you that I am embarrassed. I am embarrassed
that this Commission cannot have the wisdom, whether you
agree with me or disagree with me, there seems to be, as you
say, going around in circles and that's all we're continuing
to do. I say to you that something more - you're telling me
that which you voted for and asked staff to bring back on
the 18th is not going to work. Then I say to you everything
that we have done today us for naught. So let's do some-
thing. Dawkins says he isn't coming back to another one of
these Federal Revenue Sharing Meetings, Carollo was maybe
smarter than all of us, and I don't mean that derogatorily,
he wasn't here. Okay? Now, let's just...
Mayor Ferre: J. L., there's only way to do this, you've got
to bite the bullet. We've got to follow professional
staff's recommendation and if you don't like professional
staff fire them and get another new professional staff.
Mr. Plummer: Maybe then that's the answer.
Mayor Ferre: I've made both of those motions, I've made the
motion one to follow the Manager's recommendation right down
to the end or for next year to turn it over to the United
Way and have them recommend to the Manager and then let the
Manager evaluate their recommendation. Now, either one is
acceptable to me but....
Mr. Plummer: Neither one are acceptable.
Mayor Ferre: Unless we do something like that then we get
into the realms of pressure politics. Nobody wants to
offend their friends. I don't want to offend HACAD, I don't
want to offend Allapattah, I don't want to offend the dif-
ferent groups. The Puerto Rican community is going to
furious if they don't get funding for ASPIRA. The guys are
angry because the black community doesn't get funding for
something else. We're always in the same circle.
Mr. Plummer: Okay, let me come at it backwards.
Mayor Ferre: The only way to do this is to get out of the
realm of politics and get into the realms of staff recommen-
dations and follow it.
Mr. Plummer: Let me come at it backwards. Let me try this
one on for size. I am willing right now to vote for the
staff recommendation less the 26% which would bring it to
the $515,000, if all moneys that went to these programs
could only be used for food or medical or accessory. That
I'll vote for.
Mayor ferre: I'll accept that as a motion, if you get a
second I'll go along with it.
Mr. Plummer: I'll move it. In other words HACAD gets
$108,000 less 26% which everybody is going to take a 26%
RT JAN 51984
0 6
cut, and that all of those dollars must be allocated for
food, medical or accessory which is transportation. You get
your full funding. I've got no problem with that.
Mayor Ferre: Is there a second to that motion? There's
three of us left on this Commission now so it requires,
you've got to have three votes. If you don't get a second
then you don't have it. Is there a second to that motion?
Mr. Plummer: I tried.
Mayor Ferre: Is there a second for that motion?
Mr. Plummer: I'll just withdraw the motion, I'll make it
easier.
9. DISCUSSION OF MARCH 13th BOND ISSUE
Mayor Ferre: Wait, we have another thing. Plummer,
Plummer, a motion of intent of the City Commission to place
the following general obligation bond issue on the March 13,
1984 Presidential Preference Primary Ballot, $30,000,000
Parks and Recreation Facility Bonds, .... Now, I am calling
a Special Commission Meeting for the purposes of on a pre-
liminary basis, a motion of intent of putting these matters
on the March 13th ballot. Now how much are yoU recommending
for Police Bonds, Mr. Manager?
Mr. Gary: $20,000,000
Mayor Ferre: All right, $30,000,000 for Parks and Recrea-
tion, $20,000,000 for Police and $10,000,000 for Park West
Redevelopment Bonds.
Mr. Gary: Yes, sir.
Mayor Ferre: I thought you said it was $5,000,000 for Park
West, do you want to go up to $10,000,000?
Mr. Gary: No, it is $10,000,000 because that's the motion
that Commissioner Plummer made.
Mayor Ferre: All right, is there a second?
Mr. Dawkins: For what?
Mayor Ferre: That we place on the March 13th ballot....
Mr. Dawkins: No way, no, I don't second that and I'll vote
against it.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let me tell you what I will vote
for. Mr. Mayor, I will vote a motion of intent to reserve
the space on the March Presidential Primary Ballot with the
figures to be implemented at a later time.
Mr. Gary: It could be changed, this is just for advertis-
ing.
Mr. Plummer: Yes, to start the wheels which we can cancel
at any time, but to start the wheels in motion I'll vote for
it.
Mayor Ferre: All right, $30,000,000 for Parks, how much do
you want to put for Police? You have to have a figure, you
could change it, but by law you have to have a figure.
UNINTELLIGIBLE CONVERSATION.
Mr. Gary: Mr. Mayor, all I'm asking you today to do is to
do something legally that will allow me to put an ad in the
paper because I cannot do it in time because you changed the
W JAN 51984
• 41
meeting dates. This just allows me to put the ad in the
paper.
Mayor Ferre: Give me the figures. You want to put
$30,000,000 for Parks.
Mr. Gary: $30,000,000 for Parks, $20,000,000 for Police,
$10,000,000, you can change it later, it is just the adver-
tising process.
Mr. Plummer: Question, can we up it later?
Mayor Ferre: No, I don't think so.
Mr. Gary: Yes.
Mayor Ferre: You can go down, you can't go up.
Mr. Clark: The problem, Mayor, is that the 26th Meeting
will be the last date upon which the ordinance can be read
on second reading and 10 days before the 26th there must be
published the title of the ordinance that will be passed on
the 26th and that should have figures in it. We need to
have that before the Meeting of the 19th in order to comply
with the 10-day rule, the City Clerk wants to have an ex-
pression from the City Commission and we need it for our
legal purposes in order to pass an ordinance prior to the
26th of January.
Mr. Gary: For the public hearing.
Mr. Dawkins: If we do not build a substation which the
Manager is against in Liberty City I'm not voting for no
bonds. That's why I'm saying up here now we've got to know
where we're coming from.
Mayor Ferre: Miller, I'll vote with you on that right now
and then the Manager is going to do it. Make a motion....
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, under discussion, let me express to
you something that I would have preferred not to but I guess
I have to. I am concerned, very concerned with Proposition
1. Do I have to say anymore?
Mayor Ferre: Yes, you have to say more because Proposition
1 is not on March 13th.
Mr. Plummer:- But I do feel, you remember that Proposition 1
speaks to ad valorem taxes. Are we going to be misunder-
stood that the City is going to circumvent Proposition 1, if
passed, by passing bond issues?
Mayor Ferre: No, because they can only go to capital expen-
ditures, as you know.
Mr. Plummer: Okay, you know, the saving factor, if it is
made known, is that doing through a bond issue the public
has the right to speak.
Mayor Ferre: Of course. Therefore, I move you, sir, that
the City of Miami place the following General Obligation
Bond Issue on the March 13, 1984 Presidential Preference
Primary Ballot: (1) $30,000,000 for Parks and Recreation
Facilities Bonds, (2) $20,000,000 for Police Headquarters
and Crime Prevention Bonds and (3) $10,000,000 for Park West
Redevelopment Bonds, and I so move.
RT JAN 51984
Mr. Gary: Mr. Mayor, as I said before, this only permits me
to advertise for a public hearing for the next meeting where
we would be considering these bonds. You can change them,
this is just to permit advertising for a public hearing.
Mayor Ferre: And I.recommend that you allow the Manager to
advertise, to have a public hearing and at the end you can
decide what you want.
Mr. Plummer: But what you're indicating, Mr. Mayor, is that
you can go down but you can't go up.
Mayor Ferre: I'm not sure of that legally, J. L., but I do
think that it might be subject to some kind of a legal....
Mr. Gary: They can change it, nothing can bind the Commis-
sion.
Mayor Ferre: Nothing is binding, but I think it would be
foolish for us to put a low figure and then go up, I would
rather put $20,000,000, you can go down to $8,000,000 if you
want, I don't care and I'm telling Commissioner Dawkins that
I'm voting not only in Liberty City but in Little Havana for
a sub -station. Now, I so move so we can get this for a
public hearing.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I'll tell you what I'll vote on.
I'll vote on 25, 15 and 10.
Mayor Ferre: I accept that. $25,000,000 for Parks,
$15,000,000 for Police and $10,000,000 for Park West.
Plummer moves, is there a second?
Mr. Plummer: With the full understanding that these can go
up or down at a later date.
Mr. Perez: (Inaudible) ... how they are going to spend that
money and about the sub -station...
Mr. Plummer: Oh, we're going to go all through that.
Mayor Ferre: Oh yes, and we're going to have a public
hearing and the whole thing.
Mr. Perez: Okay.
Mayor Ferre: Seconded by Commissioner Perez. Further
discussion? Call the roll.
Mr. Plummer: And before you call the roll, I want to go on
the record that I am also in favor of the sub -station.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner
Plummer, who moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 84-11
A MOTION OF INTENT OF THE CITY COMMIS-
SION TO PLACE THE FOLLOWING GENERAL
OBLIGATION BONDS ISSUE ON THE MARCH 13,
1984 "PRESIDENTIAL PREFERENCE PRIMARY"
BALLOT:
1. $25,000,000 PARKS AND RECREATION
FACILITIES BONDS;
2. $15,0001000 POLICE HEADQUARTERS &
CRIME PREVENTION BONDS; AND
3. $101000,000 PARK WEST REDEVELOPMENT
BONDS
RT'^JAN 51984
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Perez, the
motion was passed and adopted by the following vote -
AYES:
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice -Mayor Demetrio Perez, Jr.
Mayor Maurice A. Ferre
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mayor Ferre: Now, Mr. Manager, just for the record
because I have a question here from..... Mr. Manager,
the First Methodist Church Food Program in downtown
Miami, it says it is not recommended for funding.
Dena? It is recommended, so why are you saying....
No, but it is recommended. No, you're not out, ma'am,
you're getting the funding. Yes, Luis
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I have a question, I would like
to know what you mean by medical. What you include in
medical because that is very important because you will
have also clinics that work as counseling sessions and
also medical. I would like to know what medical means.
Mr. Plummer: What medical means at my interpretation
is that something, for example, that would qualify for
hospitalization.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That means that also includes
counseling that can be in the hospitalization, counsel-
ing for people that have crises...
Mr. Plummer: No, counseling is not permitted, it is
not a permitted use under hospitalization insurance.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: In other words those funds
should be used only with medical, in other words with
doctors, that kind of personnel.
Mr. Plummer: A person that is sick, I'm not saying
mentally.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Not mentally, Okay. But that is
the impression that the staff has, that is very impor-
tant and when they made that recommendation I would
like to know if that is their....
Mr. Plummer: And I thank you for bringing that up.
Excuse me, here again, I want you to fully understand
that from what I see not all of the money is going to
be allocated under that formula. There is going to be
moneys left over and then you can qualify or vie for
it.
INAUDIBLE CONVERSATION.
Mr. Plummer: No, you don't need that motion of 26%
reduction because the motion of the Commission of
$515,000 is still a standing motion, that is the 26%.
The first motion before this Commission was that we
cannot spend more than a total of $515,000.
UNINTELLIGIBLE CONVERSATION
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, they want me to make a motion
again which I say is superfluous but I'll do it, that
the Manager's recommendation less the 26% which brings
RT 94 JAN 51984
us to the $515,000 again - that's all the money we've
got, Howard, how the hell can you spend more?
Mr. Gary: No, you need to have that clear.
Mr. Plummer: Well, we ain't got anybody here. It was
clear to me. Mr. Clerk, was not the first motion
before this Commission passed unanimously that the
Manager could not spend more than $515,000?
Mr. Gary: That's understood, but the process, J. L.
Mr. Plummer: Has that been rescinded?
Mr. Ongie: No.
Mr. Plummer: Has that in any way been altered?
Mr. Ongie: No.
Mr. Plummer: Thank you.
Mr. Gary: But there was a difference. The difference
in what you just asked him and what you just said to me
was that you're going to take the Manager's recommenda-
tion less 26% which would bring us to $515,000 as long
as everybody uses food.
Mr. Plummer: It's the same.
Mr. Gary: No, there is a difference though.
Mr. Plummer: I said the Manager's recommendation less
the 26%.... Look, let me give you an example. Okay?
I've got the exact figures.... I don't have them.
THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE
CITY COMMISSION, THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 4:40
O'CLOCK P.M.
ATTEST:
Ralph G. Ongie
CITY CLERK
Natty Hirai
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
RT
Maurice A. Ferre
N A Y O R
9
JAN 51984