HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1986-09-05 Minutes10 s
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MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
On the 5th day of September, 1986, the City Commission of Miami,
Florida, met at the Miami Convention Center, Orange Blossom Rooms B & C for
the purposes of the continuation of a Departmental Budget Workshop F/Y '86-
'87.
The meeting was called to order at 2:00 P.M. by Commissioner Plummer
s' with the following members of the Commission found to be present:
Vice Mayor Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
` Commissioner Rosario Kennedy
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
ALSO PRESENT:
Cesar Odio, City Manager
Lucia Allen Dougherty, City Attorney
Matty Hirai, City Clerk
8. PRESENTATION BY PARKS, RECREATION & PUBLIC FACILITIES DEPARTMENT.
r=.
Mr. Plummer: The schedule says 2:00 p.m., Parks, Recreation and Public
Facilities. Is that three or - ?
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) That's two.
Mr. Plummer: I think it's three.
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) Who's Parks and Recreation?
Mr. Plummer: Oh, you got all three now. We can hit you three times as hard.
Mr. Walter Golby: (OFF MIKE) Yes.
Mr, Plummer: That's all right. I asked yesterday for a list of all of the
capital improvements that are scheduled for the parks this year with the
delineation of the dollars so that we, the Commission, could set the
priorities. Do we have such? Is it available?
Mr. Golby: It's available to be passed out, yes.
Mr. Plummer: All right. I am not going to sit here today and try to make
that delineation and I doubt - it would be unfair to ask my colleagues - but I
think that if we have it today that we can be prepared in the first public
hearing that each one of us can give our own individual input as to how those
dollars should be spent. Mr. Surana ...
Mr. Manohar Surana: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Otherwise known as Mono. Before Mr. Golby starts, sir, I would
ask, on behalf of myself and my colleagues, I would like a complete breakdown
in the Police Department of the dollars going to each individual Division and
Unit.
Mr. Surana: OK.
vg 1 September 5, 1986
Mr. Plummer: In other words, I want to know - just to give you an idea of
where I'm coming from - I want to know how much money is being dedicated to
homicide. I want to know how much money is being dedicated to auto theft. I
want to know how much money is being dedicated to each Unit. As I stated
yesterday for the record, and I'll continue to state, I respect the right for
the Chief to sit down and to put forth what he feels is the best budget and
the Manager to make any corrections, but the final vote is with this
Commission, and I feel that the only way that this Commission can make
intelligent statements and not be in the area of being rubber stamps is to
have those numbers so that we can set the priority. Just to give you one real
fast example. It is my understanding there is and has been a shortage of
personnel in Homicide and our homicides are up in the last two months
considerably. I, for one, want to make my own determination as to make sure
that there is adequate dollars being addressed to that problem. It's also the
same problem in auto theft. The only way I can do that, is what I'm saying,
is to have that complete breakdown. Without it, I cannot make reasonable
decisions.
Mr. Surana: OK.
Mr. Plummer: So I would ask you to get that as quickly as possible before the
public hearing next Thursday.
Mr. Surana: OK.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) What's the question now?
Mr. Plummer: Do we have that list of the breakdown of capital improvements to
the parks?
Mr. Golby: It was passed.
Mr. Plummer: All right, thank you. I'm not going to address that today. I'm
sure that, more so than anyone on this Commission, my colleague is going to be
going through this extensively and I will look to him for leadership in that
particular area and I would hope that he might even write a position paper as
to what you feel is the real need.
(INAUDIBLE COMMENTS)
Mr. Golby: My name is Walter Golby.
live at 701 N.E. 23rd Street ...
Mr. Plummer: That's a commercial!
Mr. Golby: That's a commercial?
I'm Director of Parks and Recreation. I
Mr. Plummer: Yes, because you're trying to prove to this Commission you live
in the City and we already know that.
Mr. Golby: My department is made up of a multitude of divisions, such as Park
Operations, Recreation, Handicap Program, Day Care, Summer Food Programs. The
balance of the department is made up of enterprise operations such as the
marinas, the Orange Bowl stadium, Miami baseball stadium, Marine Stadium,
Coconut Grove Exhibition Center and the two golf courses: Melreese and Miami
Springs. The department has 272 employees, of which 164 are in the Parks and
Recreation Department.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, how many?
Mr. Golby: 164.
Mr. Plummer: Why does the book say 237 plus 35 part-time?
Mr. Golby: That is for the entire department. That includes, now, beyond
Parka and Recreation. It also includes all of the Enterprise Funds.
Mr. Plummer: But, wait a minute ...
Mr. Golby: All the employees ... in other words, we've combined the
department. It was 164 in Parks and Recreation. It was 73 in the Enterprise
Fund and there's 35 on part-time basis, which gives you 272 employees total.
vs 2 September 5, 1966
I
Mr. Plummer: But you're speaking for all three.
Mr. Golby: Yes, air.
Mr. Plummer: Or a total.
Mr. Golby: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: And that cost factor is $6,858,746.
Mr. Golby: For the 164.
Mr. Surana: Commissioner ...
Mr. Plummer: I can't live with 164 because my book is telling me different.
Mr. Surana: Commissioner Plummer, there is only Parks Department. What he is
talking about - Orange Bowl, Miami Stadium, Marina Stadium ...
Mr. Plummer: Sir, excuse me. On page 161 of the comic book that you provided
me, it is titled: "Parks, Recreation and Public Facilities - all (A-L-L)
divisions."
Mr. Surana: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: In that book it says to me that you are 237 employees, plus 35
part-time.
Mr. Surana: Yes, sir. That's 272.
Mr. Plummer: Where do you get 272? Oh, you mean with the part-time.
Mr. Surana: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: All right, OK.
Mr. Golby: And we have 73 employees in the Enterprise Fund. Our total
budget, as a total department, is in excess of $22 million, of which
$9,700,000 is for Parks and Recreation and their related services. The
Enterprise Fund represents $7,500 of that budget. Capital improvement is over
$4 million and we have grants exceeding $1 million. Do you have any questions
at that point?
Mr. Dawkins: I got some but I'll wait till you get finished, Mr. Golby. Go
right ahead, sir.
Mr. Golby: It is hoped that some of the following internal changes within the
department can be made. Number one is to save funds, provide more manpower in
the Parks Department itself. One of our proposals concerns the City nursery
operation. We would like to privatize the current building plant program.
Mr. Plummer: Building plant? Are you talking about shrubbery?
Mr. Golby: Shrubbery. Currently, we have approximately 140 plants that we
rotate from place to place, mostly in City Hall, and this requires two
employees on a year-round basis. What we'd like to do is turn that over to
private enterprise and put those two people back in the workstream as far as
the Parks Department itself is concerned.
Mr. Dawkins: What do you expect to save in dollars by doing this?
Mr. Golby: Right now we feel that we can save close to $150,000 a year.
Mr. Plummer; Are you then indicating to me that the greatest percentage of
that is going towards plants for City Hall?
Mr. Golby: What I'm saying is that not just the plants for City Hall but all
City facilities. I mentioned 140 at City Hall as one example, but all the
plants that we maintain, the two people it takes to maintain them, put
fertilizer, the upkeep, the maintenance of those plants, we would be better
off putting those two people back in the field to work and go ahead and order
our plants from nurseries on an as -needed basis.
v6 3 September 5, 1986
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Vice -Mayor, as soon as we have a third party here I will
make a motion, air, that effectively says that we eliminate the program
entirely and dedicate that $150,000 to social programs for food. I'll make
such a motion at the time we get a third vote here. Continue.
Mr. Golby: Our second ...
Mr. Dawkins: Why don't you just ... it's quite possible that we'll not have a
third vote, so why don't you just indicate that at the next meeting.
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Commissioner Kennedy entered the meeting at 2:10 p.m.
Mr. Plummer: Well, OK, at the next meeting that ... Mano ... Rosario, if you
come I want to make a motion.
Mrs. Kennedy: I'm here.
Mr. Plummer: We've just been informed by Mr. Golby that roughly $150,000 a
year is spent for providing plants at City Hall. That's plants, as in
shrubbery.
Mrs. Kennedy: As in the entrance where there's none?
Mr. Plummer: As in the entrance where there's none! I am going to make a
motion, if you wish to second it at this time that that program be eliminated
and that money be turned over to social programs for food. I'll so move that
motion.
Mrs. Kennedy: I, with pleasure, second it.
Mr. Dawkins: Under discussion. Go right ahead, sir.
Mr. Golby: Mr. Plummer, the only thing I would request is that the salaries
of those two individuals that we're putting back into the workforce.
Mr. Plummer: We didn't say anything about that, Mr. Golby.
Mr. Golby: You want the entire ...
Mr. Plummer: We want the program eliminated.
Mr. Golby: But I can't put those two employees back in the workforce.
Mr. Plummer: That's up to the Manager. The Manager can maybe place them
somewhere else.
Mrs. Kennedy: Where is the Manager?
Mr. Plummer: Who is the Manager?
Mrs. Kennedy: Where is the Manager?
Mr. Plummer: You mean this morning or this afternoon?
Mrs. Kennedy: Where is the Manager? I'm getting used to him now.
Mr. Odio: There is a Manager from South Miami looking for a job.
Mr. Plummer: Yes. How do you like Opa Locke?
Mr. Odio: I'm running for Mayor in Opa Locka.
Mrs. Kennedy: He wouldn't fit there. No, no, he wouldn't fit there.
Mr. Plummer: Whether or not the Manager takes and transfers those employes to
some other ...
Mr. Odio: I'll join Miller and go to Opa Locka.
Mr. Dawkins: No, I'm not going to Opa Locka. John Riley told me to stay out
of Opa Locka.
vB 4 September 5, 1986
Mr. Plummer: I want to see you take that honky up there! That's up to the
Manager, what he does with those two employees. What we're saying is to
eliminate the program and the $150,000.
Mr. Odio: What program is this?
Mrs. Kennedy: Mr. Manager, could we see what to do with these two.
Mr. Dawkins: Plants.
Mr. Plummer: Plants. In City Hall.
Mr. Dawkins: Like that over there that we just bought here.
Mr. Odio: I agree with you that we should eliminate that.
Mr. Plummer: That's my motion, sir, and that the money be dedicated to a food
program.
Mr. Odio: Oh, no, how about the recreation program?
Mr. Plummer: No, sir. Food program.
Mr. Odio: We don't have any food programs.
Mr. Plummer: Sir, you heard me the first time. I said food program. Thank
you.
Mrs. Kennedy: Can we do anything with the two employees?
Mr. Golby: Cesar, it's still within our department.
Mr. Odio: Oh, the kitchen.
Mr. Dawkins: Now, we are specifying food. So I don't care who comes before
the Commission ...
Mr. Plummer: Well, I think the present policy of the Commission is that any
monies we have will first go to food, then to medicine. Anything else we have
we'll argue about. I would like to make it for food.
Mr. Dawkins: I don't want a hassle in City Hall, J.L. If we earmark it for
food now, that's it.
Mr. Plummer: It must be for a food program. I'll definitely make that the
motion.
Mrs. Kennedy: And I seconded it already.
Mr. Dawkins: Any further discussion? Hearing none, Madam Clerk, call the
roll, please.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved
its adoption:
MOTION NO. 86-659
A MOTION AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO
CLOSE DOWN THE PLANTS PROGRAM (IN THE PARKS DEPARTMENT)
AND TO IMMEDIATELY PROCEED TO EARMARK THE $150,000
PREVIOUSLY ALLOCATED TO THE PLANTS PROGRAM TO NOW BE
ALLOCATED TO SOCIAL PROGRAMS, SPECIFICALLY FOOD PROGRAMS.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Kennedy, the motion was passed and
adopted by the following vote-
vg 5 September 5, 1986
0
174
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Rosario Kennedy
Vice -Mayor Miller J. Dawkins
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
Mr. Plummer: I want to tell you I am surprised that that kind of money is
being spent for plants, really.
Mrs. Kennedy: Mr. Manager, can we do something with the two employees that
Mr. Golby's referring to?
Mr, Odio: We can lay them off.
Mrs. Kennedy: No, other than that.
Mr. Golby: Mr. Manager, I'd like to put them back in the workforce. That was
the whole ...
Mr. Odio: That's not what I'm hearing here.
Mr. Plummer: Obviously, you don't need them if all they've been doing is
taking care of plants. You don't need them in the workforce.
Mr. Odio: We don't we get ahead of them for a minute and say that we also
have a nursery - what do you call that thing?
Mr. Surana: That's what he's talking about.
Mr. Odio: Is that what you're talking about? Oh, the nursery.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Dawkins: The nursery what now?
Mr. Odio: We were.going to disappear the nursery.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Dawkins: Well, the plants is the nursery, isn't it?
Mr. Plummer: No, that's just one segment.
Mr. Odio: That's one segment of ... We've talked about eliminating the whole
thing. Is that ...?
Mr. Dawkins: OK, go ahead, Mr. Golby.
Mr. Odio: Now, what we can do is if we have any openings, just roll the
employees back.
Mr. Dawkins: We'll have some openings when I get through with this. Go
ahead. Your two employees are safe. Go ahead.
Mr. Plummer: They won't stay with the City, but they're safet
Mr. Golby: Our next proposal would be to do away with the current nursery
operations. At present we are maintaining approximately $300,000 of plant
material at the City nursery. The cost to maintain this inventory with
fungicides and insecticides and personnel is well in excess of $150,000, also.
We recommend the City Commission allow such a thing as an "Arbor Day" or a
"Plant Day", or something equivalent to allow the public to come in and, with
our direction, make these plants available in rights of way, in parks, and
that type of thing, so that the plant nursery itself has been used to its best
advantage.
Mr. Plummer: I make a motion at this time that this problem be turned over to
Mr. Al Pallot, the head of the Beautification Committee to make a
recommendation very quickly back to this Commission in the near future. I so
move.
vg 6 September 5, 1986
Mrs. Kennedy: I second.
Mr. Dawkins: Any further discussion? Hearing none, call the roll, please.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved
its adoption:
MOTION NO. 86-660
A MOTION DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO REFER TO MR. ALBERT
PALLOT, HEAD OF THE COMMITTEE ON ECOLOGY AND
BEAUTIFICATION, FOR HIS REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION, A
PROPOSED PLAN TO TERMINATE AND CLOSE DOWN THE CITY
NURSERY; FURTHER REQUESTING THE CITY MANAGER TO BRING THIS
ISSUE BACK FOR FINAL CONSIDERATION BY THE COMMISSION.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Kennedy, the motion was passed and
adopted by the following vote -
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Rosario Kennedy
Vice -Mayor Miller J. Dawkins
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
Mr. Dawkins: Is that unit the one that fertilizes the - wait a minute, I'll
rephrase that. Is that group the one supposed to fertilize the grass in the
parks, because I heard you say fertilizers, insecticides and what -have -you?
Now is the fertilizers and insecticides that we're supposed to be using in the
parks? OK, go right ahead, sir.
Mr. Golby: No, sir, these were used directly for this particular nursery.
Mr. Dawkins: So we've got another $150,000 to play with, J.L.
Mr. Plummer: Well, I haven't even got, yet, to the golf course. That's for
the biggie.
Mr. Dawkins: What was your recommendation on the $150,000, Mr. Golby?
Mr. Golby: Mainly, to take those individuals again and put them in the Parks
Department where we get more work done on a time schedule as far as the
maintenance of these parks.
Mr. Plummer: But my understanding ...
Mr. Dawkins: Why don't you finish ... The salaries must be "X" part of the
total "X". What are you going to do with the balance of the "X", after you've
backed out the salaries?
Mr. Golby: The balance of the "X" saving the employees is the $150,000. In
other words, if I keep the employees, the $150,000 savings is over and above
me keeping those employees and putting them to work in the parks system where
they'll do some good.
Mr. Dawkins: OK, sir. That's 150,000 that's free, J.L. Go ahead, sir.
Mr. Golby: Mr. Plummer mentioned the golf courses. One of the things we're
recommending there is to reduce the number of full-time grounds keepers from
12 to 4, allowing two for each course.
Mr. Plummer: How much money did they make last year?
Mr. Golby: On the average between twelve and $14 an hour,
Mr. Plummer: No, no, excuse me. How much did the golf course net revenue to
the City General Fund?
vg 7 September 5, 1986
Mr. Golby: They lost money in the last two years but as of January to July of
this year they made a profit of $18,000.
Mr. Plummer: I've tried this every year and I'm going to try it again. I'm
going to make a motion... Where's Rosario? I'm going to make a motion at
this time that once again we investigate the possibility of going out with an
R.F.P. on both golf courses and to see if someone will come in and privately
bid to operate the golf courses and give us a guaranteed annual minimum return
to the City. There is no question in anybody's mind that the private sector
can operate more efficiently and have a better situation than in the
municipality. No question about that. We're built in with all of the
problems with civil service, and all of the bidding procedures, where the
private sector doesn't have to put up with that. I'm not saying that we will
do it. What I'm saying is that if the administration goes out with R.F.P.s on
the golf course for a private concession, I think there is the potential that
the City can come back with a bid, with an annual minimum guarantee to the
City to where we don't have to subsidize, to where we will get a plus and not
be in the negative. If we don't go out with an R.F.P. we will never know. So
I would like to make a motion at this time that the administration be
instructed to develop an R.F.P.
Mrs. Kennedy: I second.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) We are already doing that, Commissioner. September 19
we have a meeting with companies that are interested in this and if we see
that there is a possibility that they could run at a good profit for us, we
will come back to you and look for the R.F.P.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me. I'm telling you to do it now. To develop the R.F.P.
and go forward with it immediately. OK?
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) What we're trying to do is find out how much profit we
can make before we ...
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager, if you make a dollar prior to January of this year
you're ahead of the game. I'm saying to you that we can get a private company
who can guarantee a minimum and then go percentage above that. I'm saying to
develop the R.F.P. now and let's go forward with it and possibly we will
eliminate having to subsidize the golf courses, and I so move.
Mr. Golby: There is one extra advantage to that, too ...
Mr. Plummer: I think - did Rosario second?
Mrs. Kennedy: Yes.
Mr. Dawkins: Rosario seconds.
Mr. Plummer: Discussion.
Mr. Golby: I think there's one advantage to that, too, based on some of the
changes that we've already made in the golf courses that the golf courses will
show a profit and therefore any R.F.P. that goes out will be of greater value
as it's returned to the City.
Mr. Plummer: Let me make the record very clear. I'm not saying that I or any
of the colleagues will find acceptable any proposal that comes back, but we'll
never know unless we go forth with a proposal, and that's why I want to do it
and try it.
Mrs. Kennedy: And also along those lines, not only the private enterprise,
but have we ever explored the possibility of having companies like Coors, or
any other big companies to come and put some money in the parks?
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) As part of the adopted parks program we have been
constantly trying to find sponsors to bring them in and spend monies in the
parks.
Mrs. Kennedy: And what is the status of that? What has been accomplished?
Mr. Odio: We have not been successful. We have only had, to my knowledge, a
$10,000 donation that was on Shenandoah Park from General Foods. There's also
vg 8 September 5, 1986
W
the problem when you get Coors, or cigarettes or what... and kids don't mix.
So ...
Mr. Plummer: May I make you a suggestion, sir.
Mr. Odio: There were some objections of bringing beer companies.
Mr. Plummer: If, in fact, the administration is doing it -
Mr. Odio: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: - I don't think you have the expertise in house.
Mr. Odio: You know I agree with you because ...
Mr. Plummer: What I'm saying to you is go out and get a company. I'm
convinced that if you were to get six companies to start that a P.R. firm
could get you - and only pay them on a percentage - that if you get six of
them in there that you will develop enough interest between McDonald's house
and Burger King - and I have no problem with the beer if that's only in name.
Mr. Odio: See, we have to find out what ...
Mr, Plummer: Only in name, all right? Not that they would have a right to
serve beer in that park. But if Budweiser wanted to enter in the program, and
Coors, and Millers, and all of them - what you find is that it becomes a
competitive thing. I don't want theirs to be better than mine so I'm going to
put more money into it.
Mr. Odio: You're right, Commissioner.
Mr. Plummer: And the people that benefit are the citizens.
Mr. Odio: If you go inside this building, the scoreboard, for instance, we
got from Coors. We can do a lot, but 1 think you're right that we need the
expertise and to spend full-time just looking for companies like that.
Mr. Plummer: Now that you mention it, was that put out on bid down below?
Mr. Odio: I don't remember.
Mr. Plummer: Someone has called me and said that that was not put out on bid,
that Coors got the scoreboard with their name on it ...
Mr. Odio: I don't know. I can find out for you.
Mr. Plummer: Would you find out for me for sure?
Mr. Odio: Certainly, I will do that.
Mrs. Kennedy: And this could very well be the solution to a lot of the ...
instead of getting twenty to $30 million, as you stated yesterday that you
needed.
Mr. Odio: It would be great if ... we would have to change names of places.
Mr. Plummer: No problem.
Mrs. Kennedy: Fine.
! Mr. Plummer: What happened to the Jaycees and them doing Peacock Park?
Mr. Odio: They're working on that.
Mr. Plummer: I think that's great.
Mr. Odio: And they're out there raising funds and that's what we need.
Mr. Plummer: You could hit not only corporative, but you could also hit
i
Kiwanis and Rotary ...
Mrs. Kennedy: Right.
�j. vg 9 September 5, 1986
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Mr.
Odio: In fact, there's another group that adopted Moore Park, I believe,
xr
and
they're working on that, so ...
Mr.
Jack Eads: We've also had some inquiry from other businesses on Peacock
Park.
Mr.
Plummer: That's great.
i
Mrs.
Kennedy: So you will continue this ..
- !
Mr.
Odio: I think I will find a company that will work on a percentage basis
'
on
how much money they bring to the City, to the Parks system, and in return
for
that they get a commission. If you allow me to do that I will go ahead
and
do it.
Mrs.
Kennedy: Do you think you have time by September llth to come back to
us?
Mr.
Odio: No, ma'am, that's impossible. We need to really find out what is
i
the
best brokers.
Mr.
Plummer: I think he would have time to select a firm or recommend two or
three
firms that the Commission could decide.
Mr.
Odio: By next Thursday? I would prefer not to do it like that. We need
to
go out and find what companies do that.
4
Mrs.
Kennedy: It's all right, you don't have to.
e
Mr.
Odio: We have been dealing with a young girl named Blaja that has the
Nabisco, General Foods accounts - and Coors, too. And she has been successful
in
small amounts for events for us, but I don't think she has a way to bring
in
heavy monies like we need. And we need to maybe find out who.
Mr.
Plummer: OK, we got rid of the nursery and the golf courses! What's
next?
4
y
Mr.
Dawkins: How many persons were in the nursery?
h
Mr.
Golby: There were eighteen.
>"t ;
Mr.
Dawkins: Eighteen?
Mr. Golby: (OFF MIKE) In the nursery there were two full-time people and one
part-time person.
Mr. Dawkins: In the nursery?
Mr. Golby: (OFF MIKE) Yes, sir.
Mr. Dawkins: So that's two. And, at the golf course, four?
Mr. Golby: (OFF MIKE) For the golf course, what we were proposing is the
fact that, as an example, we have twelve grounds attendants and what we would
like to do is to reduce that to four, replace those people ...
Mr. Dawkins: So that's eight freed up - eight and two, that's ten people
we're freeing up, so far, right?
Mr. Plummer: No, twelve. We had two on the plants.
Mr. Golby: (OFF MIKE) We would like to replace those with part-time people
and, again, put those full-time people back in the parks system.
Mr. Dawkins: I hear you ... go ahead, I'll wait until you've finished, sir,
go ahead.
Mr. Golby: Right now I have twelve people in the parks.
Mr. Dawkins: I have no problem - I follow you.
---�i vg 10 September 5, 1986
�f
1,
Mr. Golby: Another area that, as an internal situation, we're trying to save
money within the parks program is that we're doing a ten-year study; we're
going back over the past ten years to determine the water consumption at all
of our pools. Now this will give us two things. Number one, it'll give us a
clear indication as to what pools need major works on and there's a good
chance that the water loss that we are facing in each one of those facilities
could very well have gone into major repairs in a short period of time. We're
working on that right now. That report should be coming out very shortly and
should be an indication to the Commission just exactly what kind of shape
we've got where these pools are in and where the loss of all the water which
is pure money going down the drain.
Mr. Dawkins: I can tell you right now - you don't even have to do a study -
send you some estimators out there to come bring you a price back because
every one of ... Those parks were built when, who knows - I mean, those
pools? Every one of them is over 25 years old.
Mr. Golby: One of the problems is the fact that we've had Property
Maintenance go out and take a look at a pool and in some cases it has not been
evident that that particular pool is losing water because the water sometimes
is directly out of the pool, goes down directly ... you see no water on the
surface but, in fact, that particular pool is losing water and we have some
horrendous water bills coming out of some of these pools. Not even enough to
support the pool itself.
Mr. Dawkins: Well, all those pools were built - are 25 years old and they
have plumbing and, for some reason, when you attempt to repair plumbing - if
you bother one joint, the other one pulls loose, so that's a problem I'm glad
to see you address, but you just need to go ahead and start to do whatever we
have to do.
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Mayor Suarez entered the meeting at 2:25 p.m.
Mr. Golby: If I may jump around just a little bit, I'd like to go into some
of the enterpribe fund operations.
Mr. Dawkins: OK, before you go there ...
Mr. Golby: Because I know we're coming back.
Mr. Dawkins: I'm with you for retaining the ten people but I'm going to be
saying, at the public hearing, the parks are understaffed and I am hoping that
you and the Manager don't tell me that we're going to take a grounds tender
and make him a recreation specialist. I want you to keep these men and women.
Mr. Golby: We'll take a grounds tender and make him a park tender, which is
the closest classification to his job.
Mr. Dawkins: Park tender, OK.
Mr. Odio: I asked Angela to develop ... I like for the people that are in
charge of the park to have the proper title and I see if we could research to
call them Park Managers ...
Mr. Golby: Park and Recreation Manager.
Mr. Odio: So that when I go to a park that man is totally identified with
that park and we can put all the responsibility on that person and, along with
that, we give him the title and whatever it takes to have him there.
Mr. Dawkins: Some of those people may even be young enough to go to school
and get certified as recreational leaders, I don't know. Go right ahead, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Are we in ... 1 Have you addressed recreation, at all?
Mr. Golby: No, I have not.
Mr. Plummer: The average employee in all of these divisions, across the
board, from the top to the bottom, averages $44,177, average cost. Now you
want to know why the private sector can do it cheaper and do it better. The
Office of the Director, for example, they show 12 employees. The average
salary from the top to the bottom in the office of Director is $52,900, almost
vg 11 September 5, 1986
;+�4Y
i
$53,000, average. The one I really want to get to is the 51 employees in
Y P employee guess I am
<;._. . recreation. Overall the are $51,149 per em to ee and what I
asking is, why are employees in the recreational division making approximately
$8,000 more than the employees in the Parks?
Mr. Surana: I think I can explain that. In Parks department, we budget for
part-timers and temporary help which is part of personnel services. That's
why you get a higher number. But I can get number without that.
Mr. Plummer: Are you telling me, then, that the salaries for part-time are
too high or too low? And that the full-time are too high or too low?
Mr. Sur � ana: Full-time is too high.
i�
Mr. Eads: He's saying, Commissioner, that the number of part-time employees
that you hire are in that number that you see.
Mr.
Plummer:
Sure they are.
i
Mr.
Eads: But the dollars that we pay for them are in
there; therefore, the
per
unit basis is askew.
Mr.
Plummer:
OK, I understand.
Mr.
Golby:
In the Recreation section alone we hired
about 250 people
'
annually.
s.
Mr.
Plummer:
In Recreation, Mr. Golby, they don't show
any
part-time at all.
Mr.
Odio: But we do have them.
Mr.
Plummer:
Well, then I suggest that you take page
171
back and redo it,
sir.
:y
Mr.
Surana:
Commissioner, we don't know how many temporary
people they hired.
That's why we
don't put down those numbers in there.
Mr.
Plummer:
Well, if you don't put them down, how can
you
know the dollars?
Mr.
Surana:
We just put the dollar amount.
Mr.
can't
Plummer:
be.
Then it's misleading, at best. It is not
a factual number. It
Mr. Odio: They have an amount that they can spend on part-time help and
that's the amount allocated. They might not have to use it all.
Mr. Plummer: But does the two million six represent actual cost for 51
employees, or does that represent 51 plus whatever part-time they use?
Mr. Surana: 51 plus part-time.
Mr. Plummer: Then this number is very misleading.
Mr. Surana: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Very misleading.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) This are permanent persons.
Mrs. Kennedy: No doubt.
Mr. Odio: You have seasonal employment in the Parks department because of the
summer park ......
Mr. Plummer: Yes, but Mr. Odio, the easy way to handle that, sir, is that you
put the number in the column that addresses the full-time and then you show
another figure for all the part-time combined.
Mr. Odio: We'll change it.
s
Mr. Surana: Yes, air, we'll change it.
v6 12 September 5, 1986
—i
i
.-i
Mr. Plummer: I'm
not asking you
to change it. I'm just asking you to give me
i
factual numbers,
that's all.
Let me get to the cemetery. One of the
things...
Mr. Dawkins: You
can't.
Mr. Plummer: Why?
Mr. Dawkins: It's conflict of interestl
lA .
Mr.
Plummer:
No, I don't own that cemetery.
Mrs.
Kennedy:
I just saw the cemetery. I was going to bring it up.
Mr.
Plummer:
I didn't know that that cemetery did cremations. Are you doing
cremations at
that cemetery?
K '
Mr.
Golby: Not that I know of.
Mr.
Plummer:
Well, you've got it in your book.
Mr.
Odio: Are
we cremating people?
Mr.
Dawkins:
Start with J.L. 1
a;
4.
Mrs.
Kennedy:
To each his ownl
Mr. Plummer: Now I know what you do with all those records the Herald wants.
Is it a mistake in the book? It states here on page
158: "Prepare for six
burials and cremations conducted at the cemetery."
Mr. Golby: I think the cremation was already done,
same as the body was
prepared for burial.
Flv
Mr. Plummer: Oh, you're putting the cremains in the
grave - is that what
you're saying. OK. And they're only doing six burials
a year there?
Mr. Odio: We got bad business, don't we?
t, x
�ef
y
K
Mr. Golby: I would like to put out an R.F.D. on this
and see if we get any
do :..'
takers.
Mr. Plummer: I don't think anybody'd be interested. I really don't. Is that
an honest number? You're only doing six burials a year down there?
Mr. Golby: That's what the records are indicating, yes.
Mr. Surana: Mr. Plummer ...
Mr. Plummer: Well, I guess, really ... wait a minute, excuse me. Is there
the need, then ... we're paying damned near $80,000 a year to maintain that
facility and there's two full-time employees. Do we really have to have, or
could that not be just part of a regular maintenance program - to have two
full-time employees?
Mr. Golby: The way I look at it - that that particular - as small as the area
is that it could be put out on a contract, much as what we put out on a lot of
the smaller parks on this type of thing and get better results based on the
standpoint of cost as well as ...
Mr. Plummer: Walter, may I offer you a suggestion - and I mean, this is, you
know - may I suggest that you contact one, two or three of the cemeteries
around and ask them if they would be interested in selling you a service
policy where when you had these six occasions a year they could come in and do
the work for you and then as far as the maintenance is concerned, you would do
that as you've done with other contracts. But $80,000 ...
Mr. Dawkins: Plummer in there... (INAUDIBLE)
�t
_? Mr. Plummer: Hey, Dawkins, you'd better be careful you might be seven! It's
-= an awful lot of money.
v6 13 September 5, 1986
s
�j
Mr. Golby: It is and we will look into it.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute, excuse me. On this page it says you're handling
25 burials a year. On page 165 you say you have 25 burials a year and on page
158 you say 6 burials a year. Did you lose a few? What is it?
Mr. Surana: That's basically for six months.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me?
Mr. Surana: That's for six months.
Mr. Plummer: What is for six months? Do you only bury people six months out
of the year, is that what it is?
Mr. Surana: Those accomplishments are through March. They are not for a
whole year.
Mr. Eads: One is actual and one is estimated.
Mr. Surana: Right.
Mr. Plummer: OK, then double six is 12, for a full year. But over on this
page it says 25.
Mr. Eads: (OFF MIKE) (INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: OK. One of your highlights of your program for the year is
installing a solid core door at the cemetery - so they can't get out, right!
Got to be hard pressed for highlights. Tell me about the negotiations and
design contract for General Antonio Maseo Blue Lagoon. I went by there the
other day and I want to tell you it's nothing that I'm proud of. Where is it
as far as something being done?
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) Yes, sir, but is a foundation that was formed by
Commissioner Dawkins and are in the process of raising
some funds for it. We have an employee in the Parks and Recreation department
with them and they are making progress
Mr. Plummer: Well, according to this, the negotiations for the design
contract are completed.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) Now they are in the process of raising funds to make
the park and that's the condition we put to them.
Mr. Plummer: OK.
Mrs. Kennedy: How about day care centers? Are we addressing that now?
Mr. Odio: What's that, ma'am?
Mrs. Kennedy: Day care centers. Could you give us a report on that?
Mr. Odio: I did make a visit to the day care centers the other day. I saw
the one in Shenandoah and I saw the one in Ipan and Lemon City. I saw the
three of them and we need to spend monies in them as far as improving the
children's facility outside where they play - the playground equipment - and
we're doing that on an emergency basis. It disturbed me that they had to play
in the dirt and in fact the one in Moore Park there is a tree there that we
cannot cut, but it produces fruit and you walk over them and you get all
stained, so those kids are going home stained every day. I told them to
immediately sweep the area and keep it swept every day, but we have to remedy
that on a permanent situation. I also discovered a building in Edison Park
that is a brand new building...
Mrs. Kennedy: Yes, we talked about it. I'm looking into that, yes.
-- Mr. Odio: And we are also in the process of the R.F.P. for the government
center garage so that it will be ready in October. We'll have the final on
the day care centers on October 14 and the government center garage. We are
- — running a deficit in this division and Walter can tell you that but we don't
want to raise the fees.
vs 14 September 5, 1906
i
i
S
Mayor Suarez: What fees are you talking about?
Mrs. Kennedy: The fees that we charge the day care centers.
Mr. Odio: They pay according to the salaries they make.
Mayor Suarez: Talking about day care centers.
Mr, Odio: I have always felt that the day care centers are one of the most
} important social services that we can deliver because it allows poor mothers
'SS of low income to work and we want them to work and therefore by being able to
f' afford a day care center where they can leave their kids, you know, it makes
them affordable to go to work. In fact the one in African Square Park has
been very successful because of that because the mothers can - we pick up the
kids at home and bring them to the day care centers, so it even provides that
service. We need to do more...
Mayor Suarez: Talking about African Square Park, is there anything in the
budget for the improvements that are needed out there to complete the ... ?
Mr. Odio: I tell you what I would do, Mr. Mayor. I've been saying this for
years that we should get a bulldozer and bulldoze the whole park and make that
an attractive park for recreation and not a walled -in, kiosk -filled area that
we have there, that has never been used except for selling drugs, or hiding
from muggings, or whatever.
Mayor Suarez: Well, you know, there's a lot of chess players, and a lot of
basketball players out there and some of the other parks are not used for
either chess of basketball.
Mr. Odio: I've never seen a chess player over there. I've seen a mugging.
Mayor Suarez: You don't?
Mr. Odio: In African Square?
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Mr. Odio: I've never seen them.
Mayor Suarez: There are a lot of chess players. They have the little chess
tables.
Mr. Odio: All I've seen is mugging and they had a serious problem at one
time - I don't know if you remember it, Commissioner Dawkins, on that park
because ...
Mayor Suarez: I know you don't like the design of the park. I don't
understand that.
Mr. Odio: The design is awful. It was designed to have in there - what do
you call them? - flea markets every week, but it's never been used for that.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Golby, I'm questioning now on page 235.
Mrs. Kennedy: We haven't finished with day care centers.
Mr. Plummer: Oh, I'm sorry.
Mrs. Kennedy: We're waiting for the report.
Mayor Suarez: I interrupted you on day care.
Mr. Golby: This year, we hope to provide health and educational testing for
200 children, schedule two dental screening sessions per year for 3 and 5 year
old groups through Miami -Dade Community College dental technical training
program; to schedule one health screening per year for all age groups through
the University of Miami through the RN and VS program; to provide a
nutritionally sound lunch under contract with a vendor which meets the
requirement for reimbursement of the USDA and also to maintain records of
family income for each child to participate receiving a hot lunch. The net
vg 15 September 5, 1986
2:_ _
*f
result was this past year the day care program served over 180 children for
the 45-day period at an average cost of $1,680.
Mrs. Kennedy: And what kind of incentive are we giving the mothers of these
children, the parents? What kind of incentives are we providing?
Mr. Golby: We have a promotional type program to encourage the use of
facilities for that purpose, all trying to fit within the framework of the
budgetary guidelines. In other words, if we set up a budget - like we have
i
this year - to take care of 200, that's our goal. We go after that on that
1
basis to fill those 200 spots. If there's more money, then we would try to
fill 250.
Mr. Eads: (OFF MIKE) Do_ we have a graduated scale at the lower income?
Mrs. Kennedy: Right, because that was ... OK, you do have that.
Mr. Plummer: Oh, yes.
-
i
Mr. Eads: (OFF MIKE) I believe we also have
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) In Shenandoah Park, to my surprise, there is a wait
list of three years before a kid can get into the thing.
Mrs. Kennedy: But, here, we're not making any money ...
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) No, because we don't charge to make money.
Mr. Plummer: Where have you been all my Commission life? I've been trying to
say that this should break even.
Mrs. Kennedy: At least it should break even, sure.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) We could increase the size ...
Y
Mrs. Kennedy:But ' don't you do market studies to see what ...?
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) But I wish we had a way we could increase the fees -
Mrs. Kennedy: Sure.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE)- and if you want us to do that we can make it break
even, but I don't advise to.
Mrs. Kennedy: No, I know.
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) The only way you can do it is stop giving money when
they come round and tell you "I'm from So -and -So Day Care Center" - you all
give them no money and let them go out of business.
Mrs. Kennedy: I need some more information.
Mr. Plummer: You need to know the woman with a feather in her hat who comes
down there and screams!
Mrs. Kennedy: Obviously I haven't met her. How much are we charging?
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mrs. Kennedy: The graduating scale.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mrs. Kennedy: Oh, OK.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) If you make seven thousand a year you pay very little.
If you make 12,000 you pay a little more The instruction was never
to snake a profit. It was always knowing that we would have ...
Mrs. Kennedy: To break even at least.
Mr. Odio: They would have to raise fees.
vs 16 September 5, 1986
b Fi
y4
M----------------
v
Mr. Eads: the scale has been to be able to serve the families...
(INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Dawkins: And there was no problem, Commissioner, because we had revenue -
sharing funds and other federal dollars.
Mr. Plummer: Exactly.
Mr. Dawkins: They're no longer here. Therefore, it's beginning to be a
i
crunch.
'
Mr. Eads: What we can do is... (INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: Let me make certain of something. Is the policy set by this
Commission still in effect?
Mrs. Kennedy: What was that?
Mr. Plummer: Priority is given to City residents first.
Mrs. Kennedy: I think it should be.
Mr. Odio: I don't want to say yes until I check.
Mr. Plummer: I want to tell you ...
Mr. Eads: (OFF MIKE) I believe the answer to the question is "yes"
Mr. Plummer: Would you supply me, then ... We only have 200, right, in all
of them?
Mr. Odio: Yes, you only have 50 kids 200.
A'
Mr. Plummer: May I have a list with the home addresses of each one of those
kids.
Mr. Odio: Yes sir.
Mr. Plummer: I want to make sure that City residents who are footing the
Y g
ti
v
Y;
bill, are first provided for and then if we have a space open after that we
can talk about others.
Mr. Odio: Yes, that's fine.
Mr. Plummer: Instead of sending me the list, you do the analysis. Then I
don't have to do it.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) I believe that also the kids in the day care centers
are from the immediate neighborhood.
Mr. Plummer: You'll find that when we looked into it, it was about fifty-
fifty, Mr. Manager.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) Well, then, let's find out.
Mrs. Kennedy: Could we also have a rough estimate of what it would take to
keep them upgraded because of the issue you just brought up about playing in
the dirt, and all that? OK, thanks.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager, I've found the new bingo.
Mrs. Kennedy: Do you mean money tree?
Mr. Plummer: I've found a new bingo.
Mrs. Kennedy: What is a bingo?
Mr. Plummer: I thought we had some high paid employees before ... Mr. Golby,
would you turn to page 247. Would you please explain to me why the average
employee in the Orange Bowl Stadium is making $62,000 a year.
— Mr. Eada: Same reason as before.
vB 17 September 5, 1986 '
Mr. Plummer: What?
Mr. Eads: You're getting an unrealistic figure because ...
Mr. Plummer: I'm telling you what I'm reading here does not speak to any
part-time employees. This speaks to 19 permanent employees.
Mr. Eads: Commissioner, there are event personnel that we hire.
l
Mr. Plummer: I'm not buying that. That might be the case. I'm buying
what
you provided me in front of me with.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) And you're right and we should change it.
Mr. Eads: We'll clarify what we're providing.
"`.
Mr. Plummer: I want to know why the average employee - 19 of them - in
the
Orange Bowl is making $62,000 a year. (INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS) I
also
want to know, on that same page, of the operating expense taken from
the
`
budget of a million five. What happened to the money that I fought so damned
hard to keep from the T.D.C.? Where's that? What happened to that money?
_
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) You mean the twenty percent ... ?
Mr. Plummer: The bed tax money.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) The ordinance was passed on the second reading by
the
County ...
ar<'
w
Mr. Plummer: No, no, no, where is it - the money that we got...?
'
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) It went into the convention sales office.
Mr. Plummer: If it's coming from the County, why have you got it as a
line
item budget for a million and a half dollars here? That's not coming
from
general fund, that's coming from the T.D.C.
Mr Odio: That's right. That's not the money,
t;
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, what is this million and a half going for and
you
r F>~ s
tell me we've spent ...
Mr. Surana: That's the price of utilities for Orange Bowl and insurance and
those sort of things.
Mr. Plummer: Are you telling me we're spending $3 million a year on the
Orange Bowl?
Mr. Surana: Yes, sir.
Mr. Odio: Walter, do you want to explain that ? You want me to talk
into that?
Mr. Plummer: Where does the $3 million go?
Mr. Surana: In a minute, sir.
Mr. Dawkins: He just got the job. Don't put that monkey on his back. He
= just got there.
Mr. Plummer: No, no. He's had the Orange Bowl.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) J.L., let me explain. A million two estimated,
projected income from T.D.C. has been put into the convention sales office
until you determine, as the Commission, what to do with the money.
Mr. Plummer: You might recall that that money is now going to U.P. The only
earmark or restriction on that money is for promotion.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) But I don't determine, and I will never intend to
determine, where that money is going.
vg 18 September 5, 1986
-4
s
e
Mr. Plummer: God help you, because it'll be yours and my hide on the line.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) You decide what you ... the money is there in a lump
sum ...
Mr. Plummer: All right, look, let me tell you where I'm getting to. I am
very, very concerned that this - call it $5 million a year, total for Orange
Bowl -
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) (INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: OK, now, what are we going to do? I was appointed to a
committee, a year ago, by the former Mayor, who asked me to head up a
committee that each member of this Commission would appoint a member to and an
equal amount, as I recall from the private sector to address what is the
future of the Orange Bowl. At the same time I was made this committee
chairman, I was told, "Don't do anything at this point so that it could be
said that you were in competition or trying to hurt the Dolphins." Now, I
think that, from what I see on TV, it's reality, it's a fact and they're going
to be there. They might not make the dates that they're talking about and we
might be able to retire the Orange Bowl on one date, but I'm saying, to the
administration and to my colleagues, what are we going to do with a facility
that, according to this book, realistic or not, is $5 million a year? Because
at this particular point I have heard no proposals from the administration. I
have heard none from the department. I have heard none from my colleagues and
every time I raise the question there are no answers. I keep proffering one
answer which I feel is worth considering and can't get to second base on, and
that is to possibly put a permanent stage in the east end zone so that we can
utilize and capitalize upon the 75,000 seating. But if somebody doesn't start
moving on this thing, next year we're looking at possibly five million
dollars' worth of money to the Orange Bowl - or in 187 - and no events. Mr.
Mayor, I'll throw it into your lap. But I think that we can no longer
continue to procrastinate and not do anything. Something has got to be done.
Mayor Suarez: The points you are raising are very important. Let me ask you
a question on the $5 million, though. That's $5 million operating, assuming
the events that we have, including the football games, right?
Mr. Plummer: Including maintenance.
Mr. Golby: Mr. Mayor ...
Mayor Suarez: Supposing we were to have absolutely nothing in the Orange
Bowl - just suppose that - for an entire year. What would it cost to have it
there? Keeping in mind that we don't pay any debt service on it.
Mr. Plummer: Well, you do pay debt service, but the debt service is on Marine
Stadium back to there.
Mr. Golby: It would be the basic cost of day-to-day operations just to keep
it alive...
Mayor Suarez: It would just be a minimal amount. I don't want to make it
sound ...
Mr. Golby: ...mowing the grass, and that type of thing. But your basic
budget for operating is $2,782,815. This is also predicated on revenues that
we anticipate to support those expenditures. The other monies that we are
talking about are the T.D.C. monies which end up being our capital improvement
fund and equal somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,200,000 to 1,500,000.
Mayor Suarez: But those are nonrecurring. Those are not ...
Mr. Plummer: No, no, no, sure - it's basically maintenance.
Mayor Suarez: Are those recurring expenses?
Mr. Golby: Those are re... What it is, it's a tax, an annual tax and,
depending on the amount of hotel business that's done...
-- vg 19 September 5, 1986
,t
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me. The key point there, Xavier, is the fact that that
P' money will not be dedicated solely for the Orange Bowl, starting October 1.
That money is going to be given to us by the County from the bed tax with only
x' a restriction that it must be used for promotion. Now the Manager is saying
and recommending - or will be recommending - to the Commission that that money
be used to promote for the Knight Center and for things of that nature which,
at best, if they take 50%, will be gone. And I'm saying that we've got to do
something now to start addressing the problem. We might not have the solution
but we're going to be standing.
i Mayor Suarez: I'd like to explore, too.
i
i Mr. Plummer: We're going to be standing there with a big $5 million drop in
the bucket.
Mayor Suarez: I don't think it's $5 million, but ...
Mr. Plummer: OK. $4 million.
Mayor Suarez: Whatever amount it may be.
' Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) I think we can explain the figures on the total amount.
Commissioner...
Mayor Suarez: Supposing we were not to have the Dolphins there, what
would...?
Mr. Odio: We have projections already prepared. Walter can explain it, but
let me add something to this. We are in this moment, they have moved into the
second floor of the Orange Bowl a new soccer league, or whatever you want to
call it, that will be playing ... How many games?
Mr. Golby: They'll be playing approximately 30 games a year of three
different types. One of the professional type which should provide a good
stream of income to the Orange Bowl.
-; Mayor Suarez: How many total days a year?
}
Mr. Odio: It
is a personal pleasure
to
tell
Mr. Robbie
we don't
need
him.
Mayor Suarez:
How many total days
a
year
would the
Orange
Bowl
be used,
assuming that 30 days a year for the soccer games? Are we still anywhere near
;yc what a stadium of this size needs to have in terms of total usage in one year,
total events?
Mr. Golby: If we get those 30 event days ...
Mayor Suarez: We'll be in the sixty or seventy ... ?
Mr. Golby: ... and we continue to bring in the outside and the extra events,
such as a mud run or concerts and maintain ...
Mayor Suarez: The University of Miami.
Mr. Golby: The University of Miami ...
Mayor Suarez: And some high school games and some college games - junior
college.
Mr. Golby: And also one major change that will take place in the Orange Bowl
Classic. Part of our big source of revenue for the Orange Bowl is
concessions. The more events that you have in there, the greater your
concession revenue. One thing that is taking place, too, is the Orange Bowl
Classic who has been paying $45,000 minimum rent and having us provide
expenses out of that, leaving us with a net of probably $17,000 in net rent.
Their rents will go from $45,000 to 10% of their total gross ticket sales
which means that we will have an automatic increase in rent from the Orange
Bowl committee of over $145,000.
Mr. Plummer: That's one game.
Mayor Suarez: For one event.
__ v8 20 September 5, 1986
S
'Av
Mr. Golby: That's for one game.
Mr. Odio: The reason for this is that because of the Orange Bowl Classic had
the right to get the lowest terms that were available to others and the
Dolphins had those terms so, since the Dolphins are leaving, that makes us
free to charge whatever we want - what we are entitled to get.
Mr. Plummer: (OFF MIKE) But you've got to give the go-ahead and each member
has to appoint somebody and then we have to pull some...
Mayor Suarez: Let's do that. It makes sense really for us to go ahead and
incorporate an advisory committee to recommend back to the Commission. A lot
of people have been talking about the possibility of a baseball stadium and
the City Manager always jumps up when I mention that, but I really would like
to see that as one of the alternatives being explored and I think the rest of
the Commission feels the same way,
Mr. Plummer: No, I don't.
Mayor Suarez: Maybe not the entire Commission.
Mr. Golby: I think one of the things that's happening, too, is the fact that
the Miami Dolphins have controlled the concession operations in the Orange
Bowl for a number of years. Our average rate of return on concessions has
been about 33%. The average return across the country with a major facility,
including one with a proper college and having the outside events and this
type of thing, is very close to 40% and what we are proposing is the fact that
we have a ..
Mayor Suarez: That's a rate of return based on what?
Mr. Plummer: Concessions.
Mrs. Kennedy: The concessions.
Mr. Golby: This is the rate of return based on the gross concession sales and
what we're recommending at the same time, in order to give a concessionaire a
greater potential users is to go out with an R.F.P. to include both the Orange
Bowl Stadium and the Miami Baseball Stadium as one concession operation.
Mr. Dawkins: What about the Marine Stadium?
Mr. Plummer: That's already out.
Mr. Golby: The Marine Stadium is already locked up until the year 2,000, but
the contract is up at the baseball stadium. It will be up this year at the
Orange Bowl. We should go out for bids, let a new concessionaire come in.
The new concessionaire then will have more business by looking at two
facilities than he will with one.
Mayor Suarez: OK, that may all be true, but are you implying by all that that
we can make the Orange Bowl be ...?
Mr. Golby: Self-sustaining? Yes.
Mayor Suarez: Do you agree with that?
Mr. Plummer: Oh, yes. Let me give you one example - and people find this
hard to believe - the Bruce Springsteen concert last year - two nights, one
concert - gave more net revenue to the City of Miami than the entire year of
the Miami Dolphins.
Mayor Suarez: We've gone through those figures and it isn't exactly that
much, but ...
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Golby: As far as rent is concerned, that's true.
Mr. Plummer: Rent is concerned, yes.
v8
21
September 5, 1986
f e
�'N' .r:
7
fi:�
Mr. Golby: Just rent, pure rent.
Mr. Dawkins: And we didn't even have the concessions. Joe Robbie had the
concession.
Mr. Plummer: But we got a piece of it.
Mr. Dawkins: Yes, but he had the concession.
Mr. Plummer: We had to negotiate that out with him.
Mayor Suarez: We did make a lot of money on Bruce Springsteen but it wasn't
quite as much as from the Dolphins.
Mr. Golby: There's two basic ...
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) If we'd had the concessions like we have now ...
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor, let ...
Mr. Golby: There's two basic areas which we will increase income when the
Dolphins leave. Number one: a new concession rate. Number two: you've got
the possibility of bringing in this soccer franchise which will offset that.
Mayor Suarez: What kind of guarantee do we have from them that they will ...?
Mr. Golby: The number three thing is an automatic increase in the rent to the
Orange Bowl commitment.
Mayor Suarez: For the Classic. What kind of a guarantee do we have from the
soccer league that they'll have any attendance at all?
Mr. Golby: I think it goes back to the early days of the Miami Dolphins. We
didn't have much of a guarantee there.
Mayor Suarez: I got your answer. It's no guarantee.
Mr. Eads: Mr. Mayor, along the same lines of the increase in the utilization
of the Orange Bowl, we would like you to consider giving us the opportunity,
similar to what you said, Commissioner Plummer, in the parks, of paying
someone on a percentage, having a promoter who works on a percentage and their
job is to bring successful revenue -producing events to the Orange Bowl ...
Mr. Plummer: (OFF MIKE) It would have to be part of it.
Mr. Eads: Pardon me?
Mr. Plummer: (OFF MIKE) It would have to be part of it.
Mr. Bads: And it would it would be - and we think we could do that within the
limits of the budgetary constraints you have before you.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) Start doing that right now.
Mr. Eads: We'd like to begin on that right away.
Mayor Suarez: I like the idea of doing that in the form of an R.F.P. Is that
your concept?
Mr. Golby: As far as the concessions are concerned, yes.
Mayor Suarez: And the promoter.
Mr. Plummer: Well, the concessions you've got to do on an R.F.P.
Mr. Golby: Well, there's several different options that you can use as far as
a promoter. You can go in and let the promoter run the whole show. You can
come in and work a percentage agreement with a promoter. The third option is
the City could be a co -promoter with a promoter and that seems to be the most
successful operation across the country.
vg
22
September 5, 1906
=( 1
Mr. Eads: Yes, sir, that's what we're looking at. We don't necessarily get
tied down to one co -promoter which, I think, gives us flexibility.
Mayor Suarez: OK, Commissioner Plummer, are you willing to continue heading
-`\
up a study committee as well as ... ?
Mr. Plummer: I'll be glad to do it if my colleagues will each appoint a
- '•
member to serve with me and then we'll appoint a like number from the public
j
sector. Be happy to. The only thing I'm going to ask, though, is that none
of this be done until this committee has a look-see at the total picture, that
we don't go out with R.F.P.s to tie the hands of the committee as far as
concessions, or anything, until such time as the overall picture is looked at.
Mr. Odio: Would you include the Orange Bowl committee as part of this?
Mr. Plummer: As one of the members? No question. They should be.
Mr. Odio: At one point they were interested, as you know, in including..._ to
run the whole thing.
{
Mr. Plummer: And we might pursue that still.
Mr. Odio: Clarifying on the Dolphins' rent,
they pay us $45,000 per game.
_
They have played, what, 12 games?
'
Mr. Plummer: Nine.
s
Mr. Odio: Well, if they have played .
Mr. Golby: By contract, they are locked into
ten and we have been fortunate
'
enough to pick off the two playoffs.
Mr. Odio: Based on the ten games they are
contracted to, we would make
=''•
$80,000 profit for the season if we don't have
any incidentals. So we make
:;.
$80,000 profit for the season.
Mr. Golby: That's strictly the rent.
Mr. Odio: Rent only.
Mayor Suarez: But it's good to hear that you
think it can be made profitable
.�
without having to change substantially the
present configuration of the
=
present use of the Orange Bowl.
Mr. Golby: Yes, I do.
Mayor Suarez: Without counting debt service. We must keep that in mind.
That land, I think, has been evaluated at $35 million, or something, which, if
we had to pay ...
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mayor Suarez: Well, that's what I mean. But if we had to pay for the use of
that $35 million ...
Mr. Golby: If we had to pay, it definitely would be a loser. But I think Mr.
Robbie is being faced with the same problem with only ten games up there -
with a $90 million debt.
Mayor Suarez: Do you want to take that in the form of a motion and create
this committee to report back to us within two days?
Mr. Plummer: Yes, that's fine. Get a new chairman.
Mrs. Kennedy: Two days.
Mayor Suarez: Do you want to make that in the form of a motion?
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I'll offer in the form of a motion, understanding the
motion that I will be happy to serve as chairman, that each Commissioner will
appoint one member and those members will select five members from the public
vg 23 September 5, 1986
imn�srmmu7mm�rr�rnr
6 dr
sector for a committee total of 11. I'll be happy to head up that committee
_ g
and try to come back with a report within, say, 60 to 90 days.
x
Mayor Suarez: On the understanding that there has to be representation from
irr x v; .'';
the Orange Bowl committee.
5.: i
Mr. Plummer: Oh, no question.
Mrs. Kennedy: I second your motion and I'll give you my appointee's name this
afternoon before we adjourn.
Mr. Plummer: And I'll tell you who my appointment will be, who has called me
every week, I guess. Mr. Ernie Seiler has asked to serve on that committee
and know of a better man who could serve than Ernie Seiler That would be my
`.
appointment for that committee.
Mayor Suarez: We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Call
the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved
='= t
its adoption:
MOTION NO. 86-661
A MOTION APPOINTING COMMISSIONER J.L. PLUMMER TO CHAIR AN
ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON ALL CITY STADIUM FACILITIES AND
CHARGING SAID COMMITTEE WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY TO LOOK AT
THE WHOLE PICTURE AND BRING BACK A COMPREHENSIVE
RECOMMENDATION WITHIN THE NEXT 60 TO 90 DAYS; FURTHER
STATING SAID COMMITTEE SHALL BE COMPOSED OF 11 MEMBERS:
4,
(a) COMMISSIONER J.L. PLUMMER, AS CHAIRPERSON; (b) EACH
ry
COMMISSIONER WOULD NAME ONE MEMBER, FOR A TOTAL OF 5
5 MEMBERS
MEMBERS; AND (c) THOSE 5 MEMBERS WOULD SELECT
*--
FROM THE PUBLIC SECTOR; AND LASTLY, REQUESTING THAT
iY4
x'
MEMBERS OF SAID COMMITTEE INCLUDE IN THEIR SELECTING AT
LEAST ONE INDIVIDUAL WHO SHALL BE A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF
"4
DIRECTORS OF THE ORANGE BOWL COMMITTEE.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Kennedy, the motion was passed and
g
`
adopted by the following vote-
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Rosario Kennedy
Vice -Mayor Miller J. Dawkins
_
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Mayor Suarez: When are you going to tell us about the marinas? Dinner Key
Marina, specifically. I've got a memo out on that.
Mr. Plummer: Turning to page 235, I would like to question the reason for the
operating expense of Dinner Key being so high. You're showing the operating
expense at $592,000 and it just seems completely out of line to me, yet I have
no breakdown as to what that near $600,000 - I do know 177 of that was the
seating, but that was last year's budget. Painting the place obviously cost
something but I don't know that it's, you know ... I want to know where did
that money go? Or what is it proposed for? Especially in light of the fact
that we're possibly, on next Thursday, going to be spending $7 million to
upgrade the facility, why is there $600,000 in here and what is that money
dedicated for? Am I correct, Mano, that the 600,000 is projected to be spent
for this coming year?
Mr. Surana: Yes, sir.
_ Mr. Plummer: So what is that money to go for if we're spending - it looks
like that we're going to be spending seven million to upgrading the facility?
And it would be my understanding that for some period of time during that year
the facility is going to be completely down.
vg 24 September 5, 1986
F
f,
Mr. Surana: 160,000 going for electricity.
Mr. Plummer: How much?
Mr. Surana: 160,000.
Mr. Plummer: And how many event days?
Mr. Golby: You're talking about the marinas?
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me. Where's my calculator? That's 500 a day, roughly.
Mr. Surana: 200.
Mr. Plummer: No, 500 a day. Am I way off? 160,000.
(INAUDIBLE COMMENTS OFF MIKE)
Mr. Surana: No, no, Coconut Grove.
(INAUDIBLE COMMENTS OFF MIKE)
Mr. Plummer: I'm speaking to the Exhibition Center. OK? $160,000 divided by
365, that's $438 a day for electricity?
Mrs. Kennedy: That can't be.
Mr. Plummer: That can't be. I'm sorry.
Mr. Odio: Where's this?
Mr. Surana: Exhibition Center.
Mr. Eads: I can tell you one of the major problems we have in the Dinner Key
Exhibition Center is the air conditioning system.
Mr. Plummer: Yes, but, Jack, you've only got... at this point you're hoping
to increase it from 73 to 81 days of play. What in the hell can you be
spending $438 a day for air conditioning - or electricity?
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) We keep the place cool
Mr. Plummer: What are you doing - hanging meat in there? I'm sorry, that is
just totally unrealistic.
Mrs. Kennedy: That is totally Devastating.
Mr. Plummer: If that's the case, let's don't spend the 7 million to upgrade
it. We can't afford it.
Mr. Eads: (OFF MIKE) Yes you can (INAUDIBLE) air
conditioning significantly reduced with the improved You've
got to run that air conditioning, regardless and if you quit it right now the
way it's set up, if you put an event in there that just uses one little small
portion of it we have to air condition the entire part of it and you've got to
run it two or three days ahead of time to get it cool enough, particularly if
you're running one in the summer. It's a rotten system and it's expensive and
we'd like you to spend about $7 million to renovate the facility.
Mr. Plummer: Jack, what you are telling me is - you're telling me, per event
day, that you're only averaging six events a month. That's all you're
averaging.
Mr. Eads: Walter, how many events a month do we get?
Mr. Plummer: 73, and you hope to go to 81.
Mr, Eads: And does that include the flea market on Sundays?
Mr, Golby: We tried to increase the events from 73 to 81 but to increase the
number of event days from 130 to 160.
vs 25 September 5, 1986
V! a
Mr. Plummer: I'm telling you that something is radically wrong if you are
spending roughly $450 a day for electric.
A`
Mr. Eads: Walter, how far off am I on the air conditioning?
"Y
Mr. Golby: I don't have a calculator. Our total utilities are 163,850 and
bra.,
that includes
Mr. Plummer: Something's wrong, now, either you're leaving that air
conditioner on when you don't have event days .
Y Y
Mr. Eads: That's true, Commissioner. We have to run that air conditioner in
advance of (INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS) ...
'.,
Mrs. Kennedy: Why?
Mr. Plummer: Why?
Mr. Eads: Because if you have an event and you turn it on the day before or
the day of the event it will not air condition.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) What we're saying is that with the $7 million
(INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: Hey, let me tell you something, you guys. If you were in the
Y Y g� Y g Y
private sector you'd starve to death.
.;
Mr. Odio: Yes, sir.
,a
Mr. Eads: Yes, sir.
<•",
Mr. Plummer: Then, let's close it. With that kind of an electrical bill
nx
there is no way that anybody can go in there and pay us a rental to where we
can break even.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) We're going to close it as soon as we start the new
"A
construction there and hopefully it will be a convention center that will
bring room nights to the hotels in the area.
M�
Mr. Plummer. OK, I'll accept ... as bad as your explanation is, I'll accept
it. That's 160 out of 600,000. Where is the other $440,000 going?
Mr. Surana: Property maintenance 110,000.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me?
Mr. Surana: Property maintenance 110,000.
Mr. Plummer: OK. Where's the other 300,000?
Mr. Surana: 115,000 contractual services.
Mr. Plummer: For what?
Mr. Surana: Cleaning services.
Mr. Plummer: No, no, no. We have 4 employees there.
Mr. Surana: Those are full ...
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) Sometimes we bring in people to clean.
Mr. Surana: Instead of having full-time employees, they are using part-
timers, outside.
Mr. Plummer: Why have we got four ...?
Mrs. Kennedy: Why have the two?
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) We have 4 permanent employees, plus they bring contract
services to provide event personnel, cleaning crews - the same thing as you
have here. Any time you have an event you provide ...
vg 26 September 5, 1986
W�bt
b
ti 3
j
Mr. Golby: And when that happens, J.L. ...
,k
Mrs. Kennedy: That's fine, I can understand that, but then why have the four
permanent ones?
-.
Mr. Golby: No, you have the four permanent ones on the basis of maintaining
it on a day-to-day basis. We have the extra people come in when we have the
I
events and those charges are charged back to the user in addition to rents.
So, therefore, we show that income on the revenue side as well as on the
expense side in order to balance the budget. The final effect, as far as
Coconut Grove is concerned, and the way we're operating it this year we've
projected somewhere in the neighborhood, I think, of a $60,000 loss which is
as close as we've come in a multitude of years of breaking that thing even.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) Let me point out.....
Mr. Plummer: Yes, but you see what you're telling me in so many words is that
i
that thing could and should make a profit but yet we're losing money.
Mr. Golby: Because of an antiquated air conditioning system, yes, sir.
Mr. Odio: Commissioner, let me point out to you that this is a turnaround of
$300,000 a year. We were losing last year 360,000.
Mr. Plummer: This city cries out for an analysis by an independent company.
There is no way that we, the five of us sitting up here, have the time nor the
expertise to go in and find areas like this. And, let me tell you something,
if you were in the private sector, Cesar Odio ...
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) I was.
Mr. Plummer: You would have addressed this problem.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) I did.
Mr. Plummer: And you would have done something about it long before now.
Mr. Odio: But we did, Commissioner, and let me tell you something. If you
need an independent contract then you don't need us.
Mr. Plummer: No, sir, that's not true.
Mr. Odio: Yes it is, sir.
Mr. Plummer: No, sir.
Mr. Odio: I'm telling you that we have reduced this deficit by $300,000 this
year because we took management initiatives in that place. Now, we're still
restricted by the old systems we got there and by the fee structures that we
had to charge and because the place, when they built it - whoever built it,
never thought of bringing telescopic seating, which we are now getting, so we
could bring in tennis matches, wrestling matches, boxing matches, there, on a
weekly basis. Whoever put up that facility and did the feasibility in the
first place didn't know what he was doing. They never thought of revenue.
Now, I am saying that we have reduced $300,000 of this deficit and if we can
improve the facility even more and you have so said that you want to spend $7
million there, that that facility should make money.
Mr. Plummer: OK, you bet your bippie I'm going to be watching it with a hawk
eye.
Mr. Odios I know you will. And we're watching, too.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Golby, what is the electric bill in the Orange Bowl?
Mr. Golby: Between 1200 and 1400 a month.
Mr. Plummer: A month. That includes events?
Mr. Colby: It would raise about $800 on top of that during the peak event
months.
vg
27
September 5, 1986
Mr. Plummer: For a football game, what is the electrical bill?
it
Mr. Golby: If it's in season, $2200 a month.
"=
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) We don't have any air conditioning there.
Mr. Plummer: I understand that. And what's the minimum rent in the Orange
Bowl?
Mr. Golby: The minimum rent in the Orange Bowl is $10,000 for a typical
+`
sporting event. If it's a concert it starts at 15 000 plus a percentage of
P g � P P g
�
the gross receipts.
Mr. Plummer: OK.
Mr. Odio: And three years ago we brought in Florida Power and Light and they
made a study in the building and we saved, what, 20% of the light bill because
Mr. Golby:Our electric bills several years ago were some 25 and 30 percent
higher with the old light system, when we had the incandescent lights in
there. And with the new metal hay lights that bill has been reduced.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Plummer: So, in other words, the Orange Bowl in all of its splendor,
spends $1200 a month for electric.
Mr. Golby: On the average, yes.
Mr. Plummer:
And the Dinner Key Auditorium with all of its splendor spends
$13,500 a month.
Mr. Odio: Yes,
yes. Commissioner, let me tell you something. Commissioner
X:
Plummer, you
are
100% right. I came in four years ago. I asked for a brand
=
new system of
air conditioning over there and I was flat turned down.
'
C
Mr. Plummer:
By
who?
.'
Mr. Odio: By
my
boss.
Mr. Plummer: Who was your boss?
Mr. Odio: My manager.
Mr. Plummer: Who was your manager?
Mr. Odio: Who was the guy? I've forgotten. It was one of them.
Mr. Plummer: Was he a karate expert?
Mr. Odio: But the fact that we didn't have the money at the time to spend on
it, whoever put that air conditioner over there ... You have to run that
building all day long, all week long.
Mr. Dawkins; Ever thought the building might have been poorly constructed?
Mr. Golby: That air conditioner there is one of the original air conditioners
for that particular building and we've had an awful lot of repairs on it and
there's been a recommendation ...
Mr. Plummer: That's not only half the story. They took the old one out and
put it in City Hall.
Mr. Odio: City Hall spends an awful lot of money. How much are we spending
in City Hall? We have the same problem there with the old 1929 air
conditioner.
Mr. Golby: I believe Ron Williams gave us an estimate of $400-600,000 to
replace that air conditioner.
vs 28 September 5, 1986
,y.
Mr. Plummer: Go ahead.
Mr. Odio: Commissioner, we're saying you're right, but give us a chance.
This year, I think that by reducing $300,000 ... and if we keep having the
k g'
wrestling matches there... the telescopic seating will change the revenue
1
ti=
there.
Mr. Plummer: OK, I'll tell you what I want. I want a quarterly updating on
the budget of these three departments. Let's see, you want the chance to say
J
"give you the chance". We're going to give you the chance, but we want a
'
quarterly report at a Commission meeting, an updating, in writing, and then
we'll have the opportunity if we want to ask questions.
Mr. Odio: Of these ... ?
Mr. Plummer: Of these three departments.
Mr. Odio: I have no problem doing that.
Y
Mr. Golby: You want a profit and loss statement on each one of three
`
facilities.
Mr. Plummer: I want a breakdown just like I got in front of me now.
Mr. Odio: Sure, no problem.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Plummer: I'm not saying I'm going to ask any questions, but we'll have it
in writing, it'll be on the agenda, and if we want to ask questions about it
we can.
tY>
Mr. Odio: You're entitled to receive any information you so wish,
Commissioner.
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE - INAUDIBLE)
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mrs. Kennedy: You'll notice it's the two of them talking. I'm not saying
anything. I'm not saying nothing.
Mr. Plummer: I understand Sergio's not ...
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) I'm going to start charging overtime.
Mr. Plummer: I hear that Sergio's unhappy again.
Mrs. Kennedy: (OFF MIKE INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: Sergio says he'll work for the City for less money if he can
take the rapid transit. What else you got, Mr. Golby? Oh, we can find some
more questions, what the hell!
Mrs. Kennedy: As long as you keep standing there.
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute, I've only got through the first two. Let's go to
page 237 - I've talked to that.
Mr. Odio: Want to talk about the profits we're going to make in the Marine
Stadium? Would you like me to tell you that?
Mr. Plummer: No, they've done a helluva good job at the Marine Stadium. Of
course, if it wasn't for my boat race, they'd lose money!
Mr. Odio: What are the results of ...? Wait, I have a question,
Commissioner.
Mr. Plummer: You're going to get into a damn sore subject - you're going to
open up an hour of discussion.
Mr. Odio: No, no. I just want to know ...
vg
29
September 5, 1986
�y.N HF
Mr.
Golby: I just saw Randy Richardson run out the back door.
>,
Mr.
Odio: And he should keep on running.
F
'
Mr.
Golby: What was the page?
Mr.
Plummer: Excuse me - the dates?
Mr.
Golby: The page.
Mrs.
Kennedy: Page 231.
4i
•�
Mr.
Plummer: No, I was going to go to the last page of 241 is what you show
but
obviously we've already talked about that.
Mr.
Golby: This past year we were within 65,000 of breaking the Miami
baseball stadium even.
Mr.
Plummer: Yes, but we've also allocated $800,000 worth of improvements.
Mr.
Odio: (OFF MIKE) Capital improvements.
•,
i
=`
Mr.
Golby: That's to try to keep a team in there for the next ten years.
~
`ts '✓
Mr.
Odio: Can I ask the Commission something, please? If you would add to
the
committee that you created for the Orange Bowl the possibility of studying
the
Miami Stadium as the Major League Stadium.
Mr.
Plummer: If the Mayor will give me the latitude and my colleagues will,
what
I would like to do is to do a study of all three facilities, if you have
no
problem with that.
A
Mrs.
Kennedy: Yes.
Mr.
Odio: But, you see, Commissioner...
Mr.
Plummer: The Marine Stadium, the baseball... because I have an idea of
maybe
renaming all three facilities, if we can get somebody to donate five or
ten
million dollars.
Mr. Odio: I think I mentioned it to all of you - I met with the owner of the
Baltimore Orioles and he told me very candidly, he said: "You people keep
looking always for new facilities out here. What about the old one you have
there, that is the best field in the league. All you need to do is build it
up to 45,000 seats, bring a ramp out of I95 and clean up that area between I95
and the stadium and that's a perfectly good major league facility."
Mr. Golby: He also told me he doesn't want to get 22 miles away from the New
York Yankees.
Mr. Odio: That's right. So, he's telling us that as an owner of a major
league team that that could be the major league facility that we need here and
all you have to do is increase the stands to 45,000, which we have the land to
do, and it would help clean up that area which needs cleaning up, anyway.
Mr. Golby: And we own all the land north of the stadium as it is right now.
Mr. Odio: That's right. Maybe you can incorporate that to your committee.
Mr. Plummer: (OFF MIKE) I have no further questions right now. I'll reserve
the bigger amount of it for the public hearing.
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) Did you have a slide for minorities employment?
Mr. Golby: Yes, we do, sir.
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) Could you make it available to my office, please,
sir?
Mr. Golby: Yes, sir, right.
= vg 30 September 5, 1986
9. PRESENTATION BY THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT.
Mr. Plummer: We asked yesterday for ... Mano, we asked yesterday for a
separate budget for the Housing Department, separated from the Community
Development. May I have that?
Mr. Surana: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Where is it?
Mr. Surana: It's in your book, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Is it in these numbers here?
Mr. Surana: No.
Mr. Plummer: Have I got it in my book?
Mr. Surana: No, it's in your black book.
Mr. Plummer: It's in my black book?
Mr. Surana: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: OK, thank you.
Mr. Frank Castaneda: Mayor, Commissioners, Manager, my name is Frank
Castaneda. I am Director of Community Development. Basically, the fiscal
year 186, we had a budget for the administration of the department for $4.9
million that included 90 positions plus partial covering of Metro -Miami Action
Plan. We are proposing for fiscal year 187 $3.4 million - a reduction of one
and a half million dollars. Part of this reduction is due to the separation
of the Housing Division from the Department of Community Development. The
Housing Division cost, last year, the Department of Community Development $1.2
million, so basically we are still looking at a budget which is $300,000 lower
than last year. How was that reduction accomplished? That reduction was
accomplished by the reduction of Metro -Miami Action Plan and three high level
positions have been cut from the Department of Community Development. Those
are the positions of Assistant to the Director, a UDAG coordinator and a
citizens program supervisor. Comparing apples to apples, in fiscal year 186
we had 63 positions in the Department of Community Development and we now have
62 positions in the Department of Community Development. Basically, what we
are proposing for next year is a very strong outreach effort to gain
additional funding from other sources for the Department of Community
Development. In the C.D. division we are looking at the restructuring of
Miami Capital. We are also looking at increasing the amount of UDAGs the City
could possibly receive. The Department of Community Development has been
responsible for UDAGs for the last three years. In the first year we were
able to obtain $1.4 million for the City. Last year we were able to obtain
6.6 and now we have obtained the $10 million for Overtown/Park West. We would
hope to increase that amount next year. In the area of economic development
we would like to increase funding from other sources that this department has
not historically looked at. Historically, our department has been really
directed toward HUD programs. What we are looking at will be foundation
money, EBA money, which we haven't looked at all, and we are fairly optimistic
in being able to increase those funding sources. In the social programs
division, we are basically looking at a restructure of the division from that
of County and monitoring the activities of the social service agencies to one
in which the social service becomes experts in their particular
industry. We want our employees to be experts in the area of day care,
transportation, and other related fields so they can provide expert advice to
our social service agencies on how to become more efficient and increase their
productivity. Also, by becoming experts in that particular field they will be
able to show agencies how they could obtain monies from other funding sources
and decrease the reliance of the social service agencies on the City of Miami.
In the jobs program which is also part of the Social Programs Division, we are
drastically looking at a complete change in the program, We are looking at
creating a network in the different target areas using community -based
vs 31 September 5, 1986
ir 0
organizations and social service agencies to feed unemployed City of Miami
residents to the program and we are looking at the economic development
projects occurring throughout the City as well as the first source which was
approved last July by the City Commission as the employment source to create
employment for those City of Miami residents. In the community programs area
what we are basically looking at is to increase utilization of the Little
Havana Artime church building ...
Mayor Suarez: How much are we going to spend on that?
Mr. Castaneda: We are going to be spending $60,000 on it. We believe that by
improving the stage we can get ...
Mayor Suarez: What about the big request from the State Legislature for major
funding to really fix that up into a modern theater?
Mr. Castaneda: To really fix that up we were talking in excess of a million
dollars.
Mayor Suarez: We have a pending study on that that has more like $2 million,
I think, for the figure. Right?
Mr. Castaneda: Well, it can be divided into phases. What we are saying right
now is with $60,000 we can improve the stage. I think that it can be properly
marketed and increase the utilization of the center. What I think is ...
Mayor Suarez: For what kinds of things - not community -type things?
Mr. Castaneda: Community -type things...
Mayor Suarez: Artistic?
Mr. Castaneda: ...as well as the Dance Umbrella and other entities could
utilize that center for their cultural activities. I think what is important
is to increase the utilization of the center. Those people will go there at
night and ...
Mayor Suarez: How many days a year is it utilized, do you know, the stage and
the auditorium?
Mr. Castaneda: It is used right now mainly for church type of activities and
we are having about 60.
Mayor Suarez: And City activities, too.
Mr. Castaneda: Right, and City activities, but not really cultural events.
What we're really trying to use it as an economic development tool to have
people go there to ...
Mayor Suarez: Do you think you can do that with $60,000?
Mr. Castaneda: Well, we're really going to try. I think that the people are
looking for an inexpensive place to have their theater. I think that we are
going to be able to have very decent stage. I think that if you go there you
see that the seating is not that bad and you have the upstairs balcony which
is fairly nice and I think that we can attract groups to go there and increase
the number of people going to the Little Havana area and eating in restaurants
and things like that. We're going to try to get the Kiwanis ...
Mr. Dawkins: I agree with you, there. I'd like for you to provide in writing
to me how ... I mean, I don't think $50,000 can do anything in there and I
would rather do whatever has to be done, or don't put a Bandaid on an open
wound.
Mr. Castaneda: We're not putting a Bandaid. What we're doing is we're fixing
up the stage and we're putting ...
Mr. Dawkins: But your fixing the stage, Frank, but that doesn't guarantee
anything will happen after you've fixed the stage.
Mr. Castaneda: That's true, but remember, we were able to convince already
the Dance Umbrella to participate there so, you know, we're guaranteed that
there will be something there as a result of that improvement.
vg 32 September 5, 1986
Mr. Plummer: Well, let me ask you a quick question. You know, I have
contended before this Commission for quite some time that we are over-
facilitized and we're actually competing with ourselves. Mr. Manager, not
this particular facility, but I'm going to bring this up later on during the
year. I think we're over -parked. I think we have - what is it? - over 109
different parcels. I wonder if we're not better off, maybe - and the same
philosophy holds true here - would be we better off to take, for example, and
close a facility and just close it down and take the money and put it into
another facility, upgrade it, make it better. I think one of our problems is
we're trying to do too much for too many with too little, and I think that if
we took - for example, with the parks, we have 109 parcels. Is that what it
is?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (OFF MIKE) 106.
Mr. Plummer: 106 - whatever it is - and I drive by one that I didn't
recognize as a park and you drive by it every day. Do you know where Steel
Park is?
Mayor Suarez: That's one that we could very well sell. I would agree with
you.
Mr. Plummer: It's just an open piece of land but yet we have to maintain it,
we have to do improvements to it, and I'm just wondering wouldn't the City be
better off to sell that parcel, take the money, put it into the parks system
to upgrade - and I think there's probably maybe 30 parks that are that way
that are not used, people don't even know about ...
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) There are barely 46 that are active and the rest are...
Mr. Plummer: Please, I'm not trying say the number.
Mayor Suarez: There are some nice mini -parks. Some areas where you really
need them, but there are some areas where they are not an improvement on the
neighborhood.
Mr. Plummer: They're a total drain and people don't even use them. Now, I'm
wondering how many times a year is that facility - just using that one, since
that's the current topic - how many times a year is that thing really used?
Mr. Castaneda: 66, but they are mainly used for church type of events, and
things like that.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Plummer: The old Riverside Baptist. Would we be better off to consider
closing that facility and taking the money and putting it into one of the
other facilities?
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE INAUDIBLE)
Mayor Suarez: What about transferring it to one of these dance groups, or
somebody that would use it like we're doing - well, the State is doing with
the Coconut Grove Playhouse, or whatever?
Mr. Castaneda: Well, you know, as part of this ...
Mayor Suarez: Is there anyone strong enough to run that center so that we
don't have to pay for the operating costs of it, which is what Commissioner
Plummer is saying, here?
Mr. Castaneda: As part of this, what we're suggesting is really the first -
you know, we have the Dance Umbrella which will be utilizing the space. We're
trying to get the Kiwanis and other groups to be interested in holding events
there and ...
Mayor Suarez: I guess what you're saying is that it's the wrong time now that
we're all of a sudden beginning to find more uses for it.
vg 33 September 5, 1986
Mr. Castaneda: Sure.
Mayor Suarez: But maybe Dance Umbrella or some other more organized or more
economically stable group, or powerful group might be interested in taking it
over themselves and footing the operational cost from that point on - for the
auditorium part at least.
Mr. Castaneda: That could be a possibility or we could obtain a board to
serve as an advisory to the City of Miami and the operation of that facility.
Mayor Suarez: Of course, they'd want to spend the $2 million that it takes to
really make it into a top-flight theater.
Mr. Castaneda: I would assume.
Mr. Dawkins: Mr. Manager, how many parcels like the Steel Park that we could
take out of the parks system?
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) I'm going to guess 20.
Mr. Dawkins: 20? And, somebody, what's the dimensions on Steel Park - 1
acre, 2 acres, 3 acres?
Mr. Plummer: Half a city block.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) Half an acre.
Mr. Plummer: Miller, it's right in front of A. J. Beranco's house.
Mr. Dawkins: I know where it is. Mr. Manager, would you have Mr. Bailey get
with people in Parks and Recreation and identify those parcels and, since the
City owns them, I would like to have the City build some affordable housing on
them, since we're going to take them out, instead of selling, and we could
come up with some affordable housing. Since we own the land we should be able
to make the homes affordable and the City would get the profit off selling the
homes.
Mrs. Kennedy: How about putting the money into the park system?
Mr. Dawkins: Go back to the general fund, that's what I'm saying. It doesn't
matter to me where it goes.
Mr. Plummer: What he's saying is that the money derived from could in fact be
used in general fund either for parks or for housing.
Mr. Odio: Can we get the money to buy the land and build affordable housing
that he wants ... ?
Mr. Dawkins: We own the land - we own the park.
Mr. Odio: No, but I mean ...
Mr. Plummer: We're talking about parkland.
Mr. Odio: I know, but whoever is going to build there could buy the land,
make them build affordable housing and you get two purposes.
Mr. Dawkins: I don't want it done that way because then we get the middle man
in there who bought the land got to make a profit and then the houses are
priced out of range. See, then Herb Bailey going to come back and tell me I
can't build nothing for under $80,000. Who in the hell can afford it? We got
the land, we could build something these people can afford, OK? (INAUDIBLE
BACKGROUND COMMENT) Do it both ways, Mr. Bailey. So that the Commissioners
will have a choice.
Mayor Suarez: You know the most important thing we need to know is which one
of those are really not needed for the City to...
Mr. Odio: We'll identify ...
Mr. Dawkins: We still have to make that decision.
vg
34
September 5, 1986
Mr. Odio: We'll bring them to you ...
Mr. Plummer: Plus the fact that we get this stuff back on the tax rolls.
Mayor Suarez: I mean, you know, the recommendation on which ones...
Mr. Odio: I will bring it back to you. J.L., if I may, there is also
properties, now that you mention it, like the Watson building, that we should
be looking at disposing of and putting that money back into the ...
Mr. Plummer: Fine.
Mr. Odio: You know which I am - the Treasury is ...
Mr. Plummer: 65 Southwest 1st Street.
Mr. Odio: That's an isolated little building we have there that...
Mr. Plummer: And parking costs us a fortune there.
Mr. Odio: Right. So that properties that could be identified...
Mr. Dawkins: Oh, I like that! We're going to send that to minorities.
Blacks could put a hell of a hotel there. We don't own no hotel.
Mr. Plummer: The Watson building? For all three rooms?
Mr. Dawkins: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: Remind the Dance Umbrella group, when their legislative session
comes up - great possibility of doing something with that building. If they
want to fund it, it would create a fantastic attraction for that area which is
in dire need of it in Little Havana.
Mr. Plummer: I'll tell you - let me tell you one that you might want. Mr.
Odio ...
Mr. Odio: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Let me tell you some carrots you might want to dangle is to take
and consider to the Federal Government, since they are right next door, that
building for the Naval Reserve Center down at Dinner Key. We exchange even.
Because they need room and they need a building and we need that piece of
property that's a Naval Reserve Center.
Mr. Odio: OK.
Mr. Dawkins: Joanne Holshouser will be glad when you get that piece of
property!
Mr. Plummer: Joanne who?
Mr. Odio: That's a good idea.
Mr. Plummer: You're badt Hey, they need that building - it's contiguous to
them.
Mr. Dawkins: And we need that
Mr. Plummer: And we need that property. Let's talk about swapping.
Mr. Dawkins: Straight up.
Mrs. Kennedy: That's the nicest piece of property.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) And they need a space downtown for office space.
Mr. Dawkins: Well, Monty Trainer, we're getting some more land for you.
Mrs. Kennedy: Poor Monty can't be here to defend himself.
vg
35
September 5, 1986
N
Ak
r
a
Mr. Castaneda: The ethnic breakdown of the department is 33% Black, 11% Anglo
and 55.6% Latin.
Mr. Dawkins: What department is this?
Mr. Castaneda: Department of Community Development.
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) When did you hire all these Black people?
Mr. Castaneda: When did we hire them?
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) Yes, where did they come from? Where is something
that I can see this showing on the chart? Provide my office with where they
are, what the position is, so that I can see it, would you please, Frank?
Mr. Castaneda: Sure, no problem.
Mr. Dawkins: Thank you.
Mr. Castaneda: Any other questions, Commissioner?
Mr. Dawkins: No.
10. PRESENTATION BY HOUSING, CONSERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT AGENCY.
Mr. Jerry Gereaux: Commissioners, my name is Jerry Gereaux and I am the
Director of the new City Housing, Conservation and Development Agency.
Mr. Plummer: What page are you on?
Mr. Dawkins: That's in the black book.
Mr. Gereaux: The black book, right behind "Community Development".
Mr. Dawkins: Housing, it says "Housing" in the black book here.
Mr. Plummer: OK, I accept that, but how do we integrate that into the budget?
Mr. Surana: It will be done, sir, when we get the final budget.
Mr. Plummer: Are you saying to me that what's in my green book or my white
book is the total numbers but in the black book it is separated?
Mr. Surana: Yes, sir, and when we print the final book it will be included.
Mrs. Kennedy: It's oversimplified.
Mr. Plummer: It's always oversimplified.
Mrs. Kennedy: It's my first budget, but I'm catching on real fast.
Mr. Gereaux: You have in your book a list of what we consider to be the
significant accomplishments for the last year while we ware part of the
Housing Division of the Community Development Department. Rather than go
through all of them, in the interests of brevity, I'd like to tell you what I
think some of the most significant accomplishments were last year. We were
able to provide financing last year through the CDBG-funded single family
rehabilitation program for 137 single family homes located in the Community
Development target areas. In addition to that, we provided financing for the
rehab of 337 dwellings located principally in east Little Havana, the Model
City area and in Overtown. Now that's financing. Altogether, through these
programs, 547 dwellings were rehabilitated during this last fiscal year. In
the area of new housing initiatives, most of our work has involved the
provision of technical assistance in funding direction for profit and
nonprofit developers - I'm talking about CBOs - setting up programs for them,
working with them on their budgets, showing them how to go through the Federal
process to get discreet federal dollars, and so on and so forth. In addition
to that we were able to put together an application through a special federal
vs
36 September 5, 1986
t �
-
program that had a very short window of opportunity worth $2.3 million. We
haven't received word on it yet but we expect word by September 30th and we're
$
pretty sure it will be approved. It was one of only three submitted in
Florida and I can say the best one that was submitted from Florida. In the
area of administration last year we took advantage of the City's...
..
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me Jerry. Mano, what I have here that '
, y. you've Mano.
='
Hello. Did I dial the wrong number? I don't have any breakdown here in the
f`
black book under Housing for a budget. Now, did somebody get something I
didn't get?
Mr. Gereaux: No, Commissioner, we came in ... we were notified that we were
coming into the budget process very late in this process...
Mr. Plummer: Sir, I cannot... I'm sorry...
Mr. Gereaux: ...and put together what we could.
Mr. Plummer: ...then I want you to take a seat and until the idea. We
can't... This is a budget workshop and I can't speak to budget without
numbers.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENT)
Mr. Gereaux: Do you have the... ?
a`
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, I don't have a thing in my book. (INAUDIBLE
`
BACKGROUND COMMENT) I don't have a thing in my book telling me numbers,
employees or anything. I'm looking for a page similar to this.
Mr. Surana: (OFF MIKE INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: Come look through my book. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't see
it. Closest I've got is a big pizza pie. I asked for it yesterday and you
said you could provide it.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) We're
going
to another department.
Mr. Plummer:
Sure, sure, that's what I'm saying. We're going to talk numbers
and dollars
and employees -
let's
talk them. I'm trying to find out whether
or not the
statement that
this
housing authority isn't going to cost us
anything is
a true statement
that
was made at the time it was established. I
want to see
that in...
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) Let's go to the G.S.A.
Mr. Plummer: Go to anything you want but let's talk apples to apples.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS) They said it's in the black book.
Mrs. Kennedy: Yes, it's in the black book.
Mr. Plummer: But there's nothing there. As far as I'm concerned, nothing at
all.
11. PRESENTATION BY GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION.
Mr. Ron Williams: Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, my name is Ron Williams, Director
of General Services Administration. I just want to briefly show you the
newly -developed department of General Services Administration and its
components. I will address any specific questions you might have regarding
the functions and duties in any of those divisions, later in the presentation.
What you have before you - basically, the positions by division. You will
notice that our largest division is the Property Maintenance Division -
employees of all trades that basically maintain all City facilities and
buildings. Positions - total at this point are projected to be 233 for the
fiscal year 186-187. The funding for each of these divisions is shown to
you - a total departmental budget of $25 million. We are particularly proud
of the fact that a budget of this size is administered through the Director's
vg 37 September 5, 1986
office at approximately 3% of the total cost, something less than $800,000.
One particular note regarding custodial maintenance division, that is, all
external contracted. There are no City employees that are funded from that
particular budget. This pie shows you the essential objects of this budget.
As you will see the personnel and operating expenses are essentially the major
components, making up slightly more than 70% of the total cost. We are also
particularly proud of the fact that we are able to contribute something
slightly in excess of $6 million back to the general fund, or 25% of the total
budget. The funding for this budget is principally from support to general
fund departments. Again, we show the total contribution from retained
earnings. A minor portion of our revenue is derived from the enterprise funds
and other particular revenues. This is our affirmative action data. We think
that we are very representative of community. You will find that when it gets
to our total categories you're going to find approximately 25% Anglo
employees, approximately 25% Black employees and approximately 50% Latin and
Hispanic employees. I quickly provided you with an overview of the financial
data of the General Services Administration Department for fiscal year 186-187
and am available to respond to any questions on whatever detail you so desire.
12. PRESENTATION BY PERSONNEL DEPARTMENT.
Mrs. Angela Bellamy: I will briefly summarize the functions of the Department
of Personnel Management. They include applicant processing in the City's
employment office through classification and pay, workforce planning, salary
administration and position classification. We also provide medical services
to City employees, records maintenance through our records section, safety and
test validation, the development of tests and training. Some selected
significant accomplishments for FY '86 include the development of supervisory
training and implementation of a paper for performance system. In accordance
with the City Manager's reorganization study we conducted and provided
workforce planning, sick studies. We also placed through our employment and
training division, which is 100% federally funded, 264 people through the
Miami job development program and, through the entrant assistance program, 191
Cuban and Haitian entrants and 26 refugees.
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) What is the difference between a Cuban, Haitian
entry and a refugee?
Mrs. Bellamy: Entrants are people who came during a certain period - I think
it was a two-year period from 179-180, so they have a specific category.
Medical services: we performed 1,112 pre -employment physicals. We also
counseled 1,800 employees on health -related matters. In records maintenance,
we processed 7500 personnel actions and we also responded to approximately
6,000 employment verifications. Some of the special projects that we worked
on included the development of a citywide internship program and this will cut
down on the cost of personnel services for City departments. We also have
developed a training proposal for Sanitation Inspector I's in the Solid Waste
Department. In test validation, we conducted a revalidation study of the Fire
Department's physical ability test. We administered approximately 11,000
examinations, including 726 to P.S.A. applicants and 933 to firefighter
applicants and we developed a handbook for testing of handicapped applicants.
Mr. Dawkins; (OFF MIKE) What is your budget, Ma'am?
Mrs. Bellamy: Our budget this year is approximately $2.1 million. The number
of positions would remain the same - 36 positions and 2 part-time City
physicians. Affirmative action status for the department, as of June 30th,
includes 49% Hispanic, 43% Black, 5% other and 3% Anglo. Are there any
questions?
Mr. Plummer: No, excuse me, go back. You just started. I gave you the
courtesy of letting you do what you wanted to do and now we're going to go
into it! Ms. Bellamy.
Mrs. Bellamy: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: I continuously hear from the Police Chief of this community that
he can't get help because of H.R.S. There's not enough people to do
vg
38
September 5, 1986
C P
I
backgrounds. There's not enough people to do recruiting. There's not enough
people to do anything and because of that he can't get any help.
Mr. Odio: Who said that?
Mr. Plummer: The Police Chief. You heard him. He said it in front of both
of us.
Mrs. Bellamy: Commissioner, we do not provide background investigations.
That's provided by the Police Department.
Mr. Plummer: That's why we're into budget. Now, the reason we're into budget
is: should you be doing them? Is that the problem, is that the excuse that
everybody is having when we ask, a Commissioner asks why something isn't done
and we hear every excuse in the book and the thing we fail to see is results.
Now, Mr. Manager, is that a realistic and a true statement and is there the
need for this Commission to dwell further? Is it maybe necessary that the
background checks need to be done by this office? Because all we are getting
now - if the public gets shuffled from department to department - I don't know
about the rest of my colleagues, but when I ask a question, everybody's got an
excuse and says: "it's his fault" or "it's their fault". I get everything but
results.
Mr. Odio: It's true, they like to point fingers around here.
Mr. Plummer: OK, now, while we're in budget and this is the only time this
Commission holds any direct control...
Mr. Odio: No, sir, you always have, you know...
Mr. Plummer: Direct.
Mr. Odio: Well...
Mr. Plummer: The rest of the time it's sneaky Pete!
Mr. Odio: That's right.
Mr. Plummer: Should we, the Commission, address this problem? How realistic
is it? Do we need to make some changes? Look, it doesn't benefit me. It
benefits the departments and the service of the people who we're delivering it
to.
Mr. Odio: The background investigations, as I understand it, has to be done
by police officers.
Mr. Plummer: You're sure of that?
Mr. Odio: No. I...
Mr. Plummer: I asked you, for example, the other day - and I'll put it on the
record - we put out a prospective to hire an employee and the minute we do
that we know exactly what the bottom lines are - what is definitely not
acceptable.
Mr. Odio: And we're putting that...
Mr. Plummer: And no time has there been a prospective put out for a policeman
that says on there: "If you have been arrested for cocaine, don't apply." But
I don't even want you to tell me how many have gone through the process to get
to that point to be asked: "Did you use cocaine?" The answer was "yes" and
they were bailed out.
Mr. Odio: When you pointed that out to us, that will be put on the new
prospectus that "don't bother coming if you have a drug problem because it
will come out on the polygraph test."
Mr. Plummer: OK. The question is, Mr. Manager...
Mr. Odio: Now, whether the background investigation should be done,
Commissioner, by then, by civilians, I don't know if they can do that.
Angels, maybe...
39
September 5, 1986
vg
{7.7 7
..9
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager, that is not my basic concern - who does it. I am
tired of hearing that it is not being done and everyone you try to pinpoint to
saying: "where is the problem?" - you are pushed. And they're pushing you.
=' From one to another to another.
Mr. Odio: You're right.
Mr. Plummer: Now the question is, as a Commission, should we address that
now? Do we need to put more money in her budget and take it out of the Police
Department? Maybe that's not legal - I don't know, but I say to you that we
need to address the situation to come about with a bottom line that we're
getting results which we're not getting now.
t
r
Mr. Odio: Let Angela address that. I want to hear what...
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me. I'm not picking on just the Police Department. OK?
I hear from other departments.
Mr. Odio: It takes long to put somebody on that.
Mr. Plummer: But why?
Mr. Dawkins: Because, J.L., the other departments are passing the buck.
Mr. Plummer: But where does it stop?
Mr. Dawkins: Right here. We're going to stop it today.
Mr. Plummer: Thank you for agreeing.
Mr. Dawkins: We're going to stop it today. Now, Mr. Ingraham got up there
yesterday and told us that this department was holding up promotions. Now,
here's where I
just got a memo. They have processed the 922s. Everything
that they said
wasn't was done. So, Solid Waste is the one was at fault but
they done threw
the monkey on her back.
Mr. Plummer: I
don't want to make her or allow her to be made a scapegoat, or
her department.
Mr. Dawkins: That s right, so what I want to know, J.L. , what s required in
the background
for the Police Department? What's required? Now if it's a
required thing
that the police must do we have to leave it there. If it's not
then take the money
out and put it over here and then you got some place.
Mr. Plummer: My area of concern is not just the Police Department - citywide,
citywide. I think the glowing example is in the Police Department.
Mr. Dawkins: And Solid Waste.
Mr. Plummer: And in Solid Waste. But is our process wrong? For some
reason... I bet you that I have had - let me give you an example - I'll bet
you I have had, as each one of these Commissioners have had, and more so the
Latin Commissioners, 60 or 70 phone calls from people who took the fireman's
test. Six weeks after the test they still haven't published any results and
these people - let me tell you what's happening - these people have taken an
examination, will not get another job because they've got to be truthful with
their employer who might accept them to say: "Hey, now I want you to hire me
but I've made a test with the Fire Department and if I get chosen I'm going to
go." You know how many times they've got a chance of getting a job? They
don't. They don't. Now, I think that you've got to be realistic. How many
people took the last fireman's exam?
Mrs. Bellamy: I guess about a thousand.
Mr. Plummer: About a thousand?
Mrs. Bellamy: One thousand, yes.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) Over 900.
Mr. Plummer: OK, and you got, at the maximum, how many positions?
vg 40 September 5, 1986
r
r
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE - INAUDIBLE)
Mrs. Bellamy: About 4 classes, about 60 positions.
Mr. Plummer: 60 positions. So you had, then...
Mr. Dawkins: 940...
Mr. Plummer: But, you see, wait a minute, how many of them did more than take
a test?
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE - INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: She said there were 900 applicants. I'm trying to come about
what this City is paying to do a process. OK? You go through the process of,
first, an application - what that costs. Then you go through the application
of testing. Then you go through medical checkups. Then you go through
background investigations and this is before the final decision is ever made.
You go through all of this situation. Let me give you an example in the
Police Department.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) You mean the 900 took all the tests?
Mr. Plummer: I don't know. I'm asking.
Mrs. Bellamy: OK. What happens is they take the examination and then they go
through the physical examination, you're right.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) Why? Why would they take the test?
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me. Wait a minute, let's get the startling numbers.
What does a physical cost? What is the City paying now for a physical?
Mrs. Bellamy: The City is paying about - let's see...
Mr. Plummer: You're paying $170 just for a urine test for cocaine, so what
are you paying for a physical?
Mrs. Bellamy: No, we're paying $12 for that.
Mr. Plummer: The last time we took the urine test it was $170 per person.
Mr. Dawkins: That's why yours didn't come out positivet
Mr. Plummer: I didn't take one. I went in the group policy!
Mr. Odio: No, the toxicology thing is very expensive.
Mrs. Bellamy: Commissioner, it depends on what kind of test you...
Mr. Plummer: How much does a medical examination that this City gives to
prospective applicants cost the City.
Mrs. Bellamy: I would say approximately, I would say, $100.
Mr. Plummer: So, before you get the results of that test you're giving them
the medical.
Mr. Odio: But why?
Mrs. Bellamy: No, we're not.
Mr. Plummer: Before the results of the test?
Mrs. Bellamy: No, no, we get the results of the test first before we do
anything.
Mr. Plummer: Is there any of those people that are cut off the list because
of a result of the grade?
Mrs. Bellamy: Yes.
vs 41 September 5, 1906
Mr. Plummer:
OK, below what score?
i'
Mrs. Bellamy:
About 78%.
Mr. Plummer:
In other words, a score below 78...
Mrs. Bellamy:
Percent.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (OFF MIKE) firefighters. Every exam has a
different cutoff, depending on
Mr. Plummer:
Look, tell me what you consider to be the average time right now
from a person
who walks in your door and says: "I want to be a firefighter"
till the time
he gets to the class.
Mr. Dawkins:
No, wait, now.
Mrs. Bellamy:
But the hard thing about that is, number one, we have the civil
service...
i
Mr. Plummer:
Excuse me. Is it six months, three months, a year and a half?
Mrs. Bellamy:
I would say about six months.
Mr. Plummer:
Six months!
s
Mrs. Bellamy:
But you have to understand that it depends on when...
Mr. Plummer:
No. You have to understand. That's the problem. You have to
understand that
that process is bad.
Mrs. Bellamy:
Commissioner...
Mr. Odio: Please,
Commissioner, let her explain because it is not her fault.
Mrs.
Bellamy:
The department may not have a position open at
the time.
y
Mr.
Odio: That's right.
Mrs.
Bellamy:
We establish a register before the department
has the
positions
...
open.
Mrs.
Kennedy:
Assuming you have positions open, what is the
length
of time?
0
Mrs.
Bellamy:
From the time that they take the examination?
Mrs.
Kennedy:
From the time that they take the first...
-
Mrs.
Bellamy:
I would say about three or four months.
But
the Fire
Department has
to go through about 12 people for every one
person
that they
_
end
up hiring.
Mr. Dawkins: Why?
Mr. Plummer: And they have to go through 17 in the Police Department.
Mr. Dawkins: Why?
Mrs. Bellamy: Well, you have people who fall out from background
investigation, who fail the examination, who fail the medical examination.
They fail each phase of the process.
Mr. Plummer: For example, in the Police Department, after they go through all
the other tests, do you know where most of them bail out? On the stress test.
That's where they mostly... And that is the last test they do before they go
to the academy.
Mrs. Kennedy: After six months of scores!
�_
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE INAUDIBLE)
vg 42 September 5, 1986
9
P
LIM
Mr. Plummer: No, the stress. Physical and mental stress.
Mrs. Bellamy: It's the physical ability test.
Mr. Plummer: But they also - the mental stress test is the last test they do.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: Oh, yes, they have a psychological testing.
Mr. Dawkins: All we got to do is get that one first from now on.
Mrs. Bellamy: That's for police.
Mr. Plummer: For police. I said for police and that's where most of them are
bailing out now.
Mr. Dawkins: What do you want to say, Dean?
Mr. Dean Mielke: I wanted to try to answer the question that came up earlier
and the Manager asked me to come up. In background investigations for police,
in my experience in 20, 25 years, is that it is traditionally done by the
Police Department. One of the reasons, I believe, it is traditionally done is
that you're dealing with a trained investigator who's going out there and
asking a lot of questions of people on the street about this individual - not
necessarily on the street, but neighbors and whatnot, former employers, people
who listed as references, etc. Whether or not that could be shifted into
H.I.D. is questionable, but I think you have to have people who have
investigative skills to make those kind of judgments if, in fact, you're going
to do any kind of background at all.
Mr. Odio: Can we hire private, outside companies to do that for us, to
release police officers that don't have...?
Mr. Plummer: You know what I'm laughing about? I sit here and I listen to
this and I accept what Dean says as being an expert but do you know how many
of our investigators in the Police Department have under two years in service?
Investigators.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's true.
Mr. Plummer: Investigators. Less than two years on the department.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Dawkins: The reason for that, J.L., is that those with more than two
years service got some plum job that they're not going to give up to be no
damn investigator.
Mr. Mielke: But, J.L., I think it's important to note that your officers that
come on also have six months training that no one else in the City gets that
in-depth training.
Mr. Plummer: Dean, please, I'm not speaking. I don't want in any way to be
reflected that I'm picking on the Police Department.
Mr. Mielke: I understand that. I'm just trying to answer your question about
who should do backgrounds.
Mr. Plummer: I'm saying that from everything that I, as a Commissioner, and
I'm sure my colleagues have the same, our system - there's something radically
wrong with our system. It needs changing. To take and tie a man's life up to
try to go to work for the City, to tie his life up for six months is wrong.
It's wrong. The B portion of that: what is it costing the City to gothrough
this process of 13 people to get one for the Fire Department? Maybe our
criteria in our flyers are wrong. Maybe that can be refined to the point that
minimum criteria that if you don't meet it, don't even apply. But somewhere
along the line, in my estimation, when you stand there and readily admit that
our process takes 3 to 4 months...
Mr. Dawkins: J.L., I'll give you one better than that.
vs
43
September 5, 1986
:A Otkl
Mr. Plummer: I don't want to hear one better.
`
Mr. Dawkins: I'm going to give it to you.
Mr. Plummer: I don't want to hear it.
=;.
Mr. Dawkins: A gentleman came in, when they started talking about -
civilianization in the Police Department, they put out a notice for an alarm
specialist. The individual took the test in January. He got a piece of paper
back saying he qualified. Only individual certified, qualified for the
position in January. The guy comes into my office and I ask the man "where do
you work? He says I don't work. He said, What? The haven't even
Y e Y n �� "What?" Y '
{
called him in. They haven't told him he's not going to go to work. Then when
I start enquiring, know what they said? "Oh, we chose somebody else." Now
F_
why in the hell they couldn't find that individual who they found qualified
without having this individual wait from January until now until they locate
somebody else that was qualified just like him. And that's not her fault,
now.
='T
Mr. Plummer: Hey, I am not I am not ...
Mr. Dawkins: It's the system.
�f
Mr. Plummer: Exactly what I'm saying, and
yet I don't find anything in this
or an anything coming forth
budget from the
administration saying that we're
going to change and upgrade the system and
I think this is the time we've got
' to do it. This is budget. This is when we
control the dollars.
r<--':-
Mayor Suarez: And simplify the system, too.
Mr. Plummer: That's the main thing. Streamline and simplify. Mr. Manager.
Mr. Odio: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Before I make a motion to
put this budget on an incentive
program...
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE INAUDIBLE)
�'.c..
Mr. Plummer: We approve it every month.
What words of wisdom can you give
this Commission that there is going to
be an extensive streamlining and
upgrading of this process that we are no longer wanting to put up with?
Mr. Dawkins: Incentive personnel? I don't follow, J.L., what we're saying
here. I mean, how are we going to evaluate...? I mean, what's going to be
the motivation for them to improve? Tell me what we're doing.
Mr. Plummer: The incentive - when I said incentive budget, I'm saying to the
department, not to the personnel. Incentive means that if in the first three
months they don't do anything to change the system, we cut their budget.
Their budget would come up at the first day of every meeting we have to be
approved for another thirty days.
Mayor Suarez: But you're not proposing that at this point.
Mr. Plummer: I don't want to.
Mayor Suarez: OK, please.
Mr. Dawkins: All of us here are going in the same direction. How the hell to
get what we're paying for, that's all J.L. is saying. That's all.
Mr. Plummer: We give them a thirty -day reprieve every thirty days if they've
earned it.
Mr. Dawkins: See, that's what's going to cause them not to function because
they don't know whether they're going to be there the next day in 30 days or
not, so they going to be out looking for a damn job.
Mr. Plummer: Or, they might even be motivated to do a good job and get it
finished to get out from under that 30-day reprieve.
vg 44 September 5, 1986
K
3x_
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) Or else they may go find them something else and
you're going to get some inexperienced people and I don't know how damn long
it'll take you to get back up to where the inefficiency what we're blaming
them with.
Mayor Suarez: The problem, I think the general problem is that they're
justifying the budget of this department and I have a memo to you that has the
same kind of concerns that have been expressed here, by the number of people
they process. But if we're not hiring people, particularly - and, in fact,
we're not, generally, very few new hires - why do we keep interviewing so many
people? Is there any way to have a quick screen, what we need to fill certain
positions? That's all that we're asking. And if you don't see any
improvement from any department in the areas of streamlining that this
Commission wants to try to carry out, then people are not listening to the
message, and there is a message here, which is: as your work volume goes
down - at least, theoretically - in practice it should also go down and your
budget should be able to be reduced somewhat. And not just tell us that we
have 1200 applications. That's not good enough.
Mr. Dawkins: Let me ask a question, here. How is this department functioning
any different now than it did when Robert Kraus was there? None. But now all
of a sudden we decide we're going to change it.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) No, I think it's a better department now.
Mr. Dawkins: No, I don't think so. It's the same bullshit.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me. Mr. Dawkins, I have never said, and I will not say,
that the department is bad. I am speaking to the process. The process is not
a good process.
Mr. Dawkins: Yes, but the process... OK, then let's talk in terms of
evaluating the dollars...
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, you would like to know how the difference is between
when Krause was there and how it is now? Let me - if you were not there - let
me remind you that during the Krause administration, our selection was done
from a coffee can. Laugh, if you will, but that was the truth. You remember
well it came from a Maxwell House coffee can.
Mayor Suarez: Not counting political pressure, are we?
Mr. Plummer: No, that was judicial department pressure of the U.S. Department
of Justice, so there's a big difference between how it was done then and now.
Mr. Odio: I'll let Angela explain what she's doing, but I want you do
understand, Mr. Mayor, that even though we are not hiring, we have civil
service rules that mandate that we open registers...
Mayor Suarez: I know...
Mr. Odio: ... and if we didn't do...
Mayor Suarez: but the civil service rules don't go as far as specifying the
procedures that we've been talking about. They're somewhat unwieldy, that's
all.
Mr. Odio: Let me tell you what I did. I asked...
Mayor Suarez: To take three or four months for someone to be told they're not
going to be hired. That's just too long.
Mr. Odio: Because you open the register and when they apply they are told
that even though you are qualified that doesn't mean you are going to be
called to the job.
Mr. Dawkins: No, go ahead.
Mayor Suarez: Are you talking about registers for new hires or for
promotions?
Mr. Plummer: Mano, give me back my calculator!
vg
45
September 5, 1986
K
!11.4. ,. i
M
a
Mr. Odio: If we don't open the registers, it would take even longer to hire a
person because, by law, you have to open the register, let everybody apply...
Mayor Suarez: But the creation of the register can be a lot simpler and maybe
there's a shorter timespan and... How would you propose that, Bob? You're
sitting over there just giving us your...
Mr. Bob Clark: I'd have to ask Angela. What's the length of time that a
register remains open, the period during...?
Mrs. Bellamy: From one year to two years.
Mr. Clark: No, I don't mean that. When they send out the applications
announcing the job opening - for them to come in.
Mrs. Bellamy: It depends. We have some positions that we know if it's open
for one week we get 800 people. There are others that take more time. If
they require more skills, they generally require us to advertise it longer.
It depends on the position. What I would suggest is that we look at our
procedures, that it may involve the changing of civil service rules because we
are constrained by the rules in terms of the time of the register that we
cannot have two or more registers at one time. So I would recommend that you
allow us to go back and see what we might be able to do in terms of changing
the procedures.
Mayor Suarez: Simplifying, simplifying.
Mr. Dawkins: You have ... but the civil service department has to initiate
the changes. You can't do it.
Mrs. Bellamy: Well, I could make suggestions but it would have to be approved
by the Civil Service Board and then approved by the City Commission. I'd like
to...
Mayor Suarez: Include in that the possibility of eliminating the Civil
Service Board.
Mrs. Bellamy: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to respond to a comment that you just made
because you were concerned with the workload of our department with the hiring
freeze.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Mrs. Bellamy: I have just completed a very comprehensive study of the
department, looking at the workload and, in fact, in the areas that we've seen
decreases, the number of positions that we've advertised are invalidation, for
example, because we are not having promotional examinations because of the
freeze, we have had a decrease and we have not filled two positions and it has
saved approximately 50,000 Test Validation Division.
Mayor Suarez: What do you call validation? You scare me when you talk about
validation.
Mrs. Bellamy: Test Validation Division. Testing.
Mayor Suarez: That's marking the tests - grading the tests?
Mrs. Bellamy: It's developing and marking and research.
Mayor Suarez: Not validation in a legal sense. OK.
Mrs. Bellamy: No. Additionally, in areas such as classification and pay, we
have had a tremendous increase in the workload due to the reorganization
studies, due to research and alternate ways of bringing aboard temporary
employees, part-time employees, and we've done a lot more research in that
area. Also we have had counseling. We've had a tremendous number of people
coming in just for counseling and that spends a lot of time. We have the
research and I'm preparing that for the City Manager.
Mr. Dawkins: What would we have to do to get - since I'm a layman, like the
rest of them up here - I guess we would call it an audit to chart the
vg 46 September 5, 1906
functions done by your department, like how many memos you write, how many
answers you...
-;
Mrs. Bellamy: I've done that. I have that here.
Mr. Odio: Independently, we, Commissioner, I have asked the productivity on
4:.,.• .
Alice's unit.
Mr. Dawkins: Who's doing the productivity?
Mr. Odio: Frank May.
Mr. Dawkins: What's his expertise in that area? I mean, how did he get the
job?
Mr. Odio: Well, you have to ask Mano that, but the results...
Mr. Dawkins: Mano, how did he rate to be the one who do the time audit - desk
audit's what we used to call it - a desk audit.
'' '
y q-.'.
Mr. Surana: We were trained by B and Hamilton about five years ago
and we have been doing various studies throughout the City since that time.
Mr. Dawkins: OK, and he has completed... because what we're saying here is
that if we find out at the end of the 30 days that too many memos were
generated then we need to cut out whoever generated the memos, but don't cut
out the person who had to type the memos because it's not their responsibility
t
f
because they typed them. They typed what they were told to type.
Mr. Surana: OK.
Mr. Dawkins: Now, since everybody was concerned about this department, have
you done a desk audit on each position in there to find out exactly what the
l
workload is and how much busy work they do and how much...
t.
Mr. Surana: We haven't done anything. We just started the project. It's
going to take us more than one month to do everything, sir.
r}
Mr. Plummer: Well, I still haven't heard what's going to happen. Should we
address this budget or should we schedule this for an October meeting for a
}trzyi:
review and then you come back and tell us what you're going to do to upline
and streamline?
Mr. Odio: I would ask you to address the budget and that we would come back
after the Productivity Analysis Unit concludes their study with
recommendations on how we can streamline this department - not the department,
the process.
Mayor Suarez: A suggestion, a very specific suggestion made by Commissioner
Plummer - or maybe it was Commissioner Dawkins - had to do with the
advertising - the way we advertise for a job. If we're a little bit more
specific, we may be limiting, to some extent, the number of applicants so that
they don't have to go through this process. Have you looked at that
possibility, or will you look at that possibility?
Mrs. Bellamy: I will.
Mr. Plummer: They did last week after I brought it up.
Mr. Odio: Yes, we have.
Mr. Dawkins: Another thing is to look at - the job market is slow - not too
-- - many people turning over - so why, if we only got 60 positions, somewhere
-= along the line, cut it off at 200, or something. Don't take no thousand
applications and we no damn well we don't have but 60 jobs. Because, coming
back to what J.L. says, we even save money if we don't save nothing but
-® postage, because we don't send out the notices and go through the process.
- — Now, if the health and welfare of the citizens of Miami is not such that we
can find 60 good people in 200 then we're in bad shape.
Mayor Suarez: What's a typical grade that you need to get in the
firefighters' exam to even be one of the ones to have a chance of getting in?
vg 47 September 5, 1906
Ok.
ts�
s°
Mrs. Bellamy: High 90s because we so many tie scores. We may have 40 people
with the same score.
Mayor Suarez: High 909, like 98?
Mrs. Bellamy: I would say 92 or 90.
Mayor Suarez: Low 90s, then.
Mrs. Kennedy: (OFF MIKE) Low 90s then.
Mrs. Bellamy: Yes, low 90s.
Mr. Plummer: If 92 is in the high 90s, what is low?
Mrs. Bellamy: My mistake.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager, I'd like to announce to you - I have no further
questions here as long as I have your assurances that you will be coming back
to us.
Mr. Odio: I guarantee that as soon as we finish the other place and we have
and Frank is going to work with Angela in streamlining the process...
Mr.
Plummer: I'd like to tell you, Mr. Manager that - I can't speak for my
colleagues - but in less than 30 minutes I have to go to work. So
if my other
colleagues have to leave at five also...
Mayor Suarez: I have to leave in about 15 minutes.
Mr.
Plummer: I would suggest that you pick out those departments
- or one or
two
- that you feel are very important...
Mr.
Odio: Well, why don't you pick. You know, you might have...
I'd rather
you
decide which one you want.
Mr.
Plummer: I don't care.
Mr.
Odio: Do you have a preference, Commissioners?
Mr.
Plummer: I saw some people here from the Sports Authority.
Mr.
Odio: Do you want to call them in?
Mr.
Plummer: Well, I don't know. I see an N.A. here on the Sports Authority.
Mr.
Odio: That's a separate entity, sir. They have to...
Mr.
Plummer: Should we attack that now?
Mr.
Odio: Yes, if they're here.
Mr.
Plummer: Do we have their budget?
Mr.
Dawkins: Which one, J.L.?
Mr.
Plummer: Sports Authority and D.D.A. We might not need a
budget from
D.D.A.
if...
Mr.
Odio: Roy Kenzie's here.
Mr.
Plummer: Well, but he might not be tomorrow, so we don't need
a budget if
he's...
Mr. Dawkins: There you are, air.
Mr. Surana: (OFF MIKE) Yes, we do have Sports Authority budget.
Mr. Plummer: Did I receive a copy of this in advance?
Mr. Odio: No, I am told Larry Turner is not here yet.
vg 48 September 5, 1956
Mr. Plummer: When did I get a copy of this?
Mr. Dawkins: I don't know. I found it in my mail this morning.
Mr. Plummer: When did I get a copy, when was a copy of the D.D.A. budget
delivered to the Commission?
Mr. Odio: I saw it...
Mayor Suarez: What date is it there?
Mr. Odio: Long time ago.
Mayor Suarez: August 1st.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, when was the D.D.A. budget delivered to the
Commission?
Mr. Dawkins: (OFF MIKE) Roy Kenzie, where's Roy Kenzie? Have you got all
these white folks passing these books out? (INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Dawkins, you only think they're white.
Mr. Dawkins: I'm not going to even listen to this budget. I'll be
downstairs. When you've finished, call me.
Mr. Plummer: May I ask a question, for the third time? When was their budget
delivered to the Commission.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The third week in July, it was hand -carried to each
Commissioner.
Mr. Plummer: Third week in July. This document?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (OFF MIKE) This is the document that was delivered.
Mr. Plummer: OK, then I stand corrected. I had asked for one before and I
didn't think I had it.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Odio: While we wait, can we take Conferences and Conventions? Tony...
We'll bring Conferences and Conventions. We can take them while we're waiting
for Larry.
13. PRESENTATION BY DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager, I only have - I've stated on the record before and
the Mayor is telling me that the D.D.A. has agreed - well, I have to add the
provision in there - we can hold it, but I want to make this provision in the
D.D.A. budget. As we know, the funding, through the efforts of the Mayor and
others who went to Tallahassee and got the provision for one more year, I
applaud them for that. My concern is after that year that they might not be
able, for whatever reason, to do it again. As we know, the D.D.A. would have
been dead in the water without the 300,000 from the Off -Street Parking
Authority.
Mayor Suarez: Or that we won't get enough money and we'd have to supplement
it some other way.
Mr. Plummer: Exactly. Well, hey, the year before we did from general fund
for $670,000. So, what I would want to pass at this level is that which they
show in a contingency fund of two hundred and ninety what?
Mayor Suarez: Just 290. We tried to make it to 300 and we couldn't come up
with the extra 10 and we had to use it for something else.
vg 49 September 5, 1986
0
Mr. Plummer: Fine. I'll even concur with that. I want to pass a resolution
here at the table that that contingency fund cannot be touched or expended
without City Commission approval.
Mr. Dawkins: Second.
Mayor Suarez: Any further discussion? I believe the figure is $291,593 and
it's described as a reserve for capital improvements.
Mr. Plummer: No. Just a reserve.
Mayor Suarez: Reserve. Oh, I told them that, by the way. I told them to
take out any description and just call it reserve.
Mr, Plummer: It's a reserve and that money cannot be touched or spent without
City Commission approval.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (OFF MIKE) Yes, that was the intent
Mr. Plummer: OK, but I understand that the Mayor said that the fund was
established, but that in fact there was no provision that it could only be
spent with Commission approval, and that's what I'm doing.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, that's a proviso on our approval of the budget, I guess.
Mr. Plummer: Call the roll.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved
its adoption:
MOTION NO. 86-661.1
A MOTION OF THE CITY COMMISSION NOTIFYING THE DOWNTOWN
DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY THAT ANY MONIES PRESENTLY
EXISTING IN THEIR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT CONTINGENCY FUND
IN THE AMOUNT OF $291,593 ARE NOT TO BE TOUCHED OR
EXPENDED WITHOUT PRIOR APPROVAL BY THE CITY
COMMISSION.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Dawkins, the motion was passed and
adopted by the following vote -
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Vice -Mayor J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Joe Carollo
Commissioner Rosario Kennedy
14. PRESENTATION BY CONFERENCES AND CONVENTIONS.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Odio: C.aferences and Conventions.
Mr. Dawkins: Is the Sports Authority here?
Mr. Odio: No, Larry Turner has not arrived yet.
Mr. Dawkins: What you all did? Approve the D.D.A. budget? You all approved
the D.D.A. budget?
Mr. Plummer; Subject to a public hearing, less that $291,000. Mr. Manager, I
would ask before the public hearing that you supply to me as well as to every
other Commissioner a complete breakdown of the total loss of the Knight Center
and its operation. I want to go through that. I'm not speaking... Excuse
me, so that I don't mislead you and don't want 43 dump trucks to back up to my
house with paper. I am looking not into the Convention Bureau.
Vg
50
September 5, 1986
Mr. Odio: No, no.
Mr. Plummer: I'm not looking into the University of Miami.
Mr.
Odio: The Conference Center.
Mr.
Plummer: I'm not looking into the hotel at this point.
„_-
Mr.
Odio: Conference Center.
Mr.
Plummer: No. Not the Conference Center. I'm talking about... The
Conference
Center I know is the University of Miami.
Mr.
Odio:
Mr.
Plummer: I'm talking about this operation here. First, I want the
subsidy
that is going into that as a separate item. Then I want a complete
profit
and loss statement on that item.
Mr.
Odio: Right.
Mr.
Plummer: OK? It's going to prove interesting. And I'd like to have it
before next Thursday. I'm assuming that they had to supply a budget to you.
Mr.
Odio: It's in the budget.
i
Mr.
Tony Pajares: Yes, sir, it is.
1
. a
Mr.
Odio: We identified that in the budget.
Mr.
Plummer: Tony, what page are you on?
Mr.
Pajares: 265, sir. My name is Tony Pajares...
aA_,l: , A
i
Mr.
Plummer: Hold on, hold on!
Mr. Pajares: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Mayor and Commissioner, I received a call this morning, as
you are probably aware, that Mr. Odio and I agreed, and brought back to this
Commission for approval, that as the formation of the new T.I.C., of which you
are on the board, and I think I am on the board - they never notify me of
meetings, for some reason. The agreement that we signed and agreed to,
subject to the second reading at County Commission, there is a clause in that
that says that the City will get, at no cost to the City, all of the 20%
money, which is about a million and a half dollars a year, and the only
proviso on that money is promotion. Now, we made it that broad so that we
could pretty well have flexibility as to what is promotion. Mr. Manager, it
has come about now, and I have a memo on my desk which I received today and
I'm going to send all of you a copy. The question has been raised of two
things, that is, a one year contract that at the end of that one year the City
reserves the right, if they wish, for budgetary reasons, to drop out of the
T.I.C., there is no addressing in that document what happens to that million
and a half dollars if the City drops out of the consortium.
Mr. Odio: It's a separate issue. We get the money now for ever.
Mr. Plummer: No, sir, you don't.
Mr. Odios The ordinance that was passed sets that.
Mr. Plummer: The City Attorney's office has advised me it is a problem, Mr.
. .
Mr. Odio: Where is Lucia?
- Mr. Plummers No, not Lucia. I don't know if she's aware. OK? I am bringing
this to your attention and I am bringing it to the table...
Mr. Odio: You got a copy of the ordinance?
vs 51 September 5, 1986
2"
1�1i-.-� I
eSp..rS"'
Mr. Pajares: I have a copy of the ordinance if you'd like...
Mr. Plummer: ... that there is a gray area that must be covered. I received
a call this morning from Kenny Myers who is concerned.
Mr. Odio: As I understood it...
Mr. Plummer: OK?
Mr. Odio: As I understood it, the agreement was that we get the 20% from now
on, period.
Mr. Plummer: My friend, as I was informed today, that by a vote of the County
Commission, if we do not join for a second year, 5 votes can say "you don't
get a dime."
Mr. Odio: OK.
Mr. Plummer: That's what I think is the gray area that probably needs
addressing. I am bringing it to the table because it was brought to my
attention.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) But wait, Commissioner, you have not approved yet the
agreement with the coalition.
Mr. Plummer: Mr. Odio...
Mr. Odio: It's on the agenda for the next meeting.
Mayor Suarez: We approved the interlocal agreement.
Mr. Odio: No, sir.
Mr. Plummer: We have approved it, subject to the second reading of the County
Commission, sir.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) The local agreement has not been ratified by you and
it's on the agenda of September 11.
Mayor Suarez: Well, it may be on the agenda for something else, but we
approved it.
Mr. Odio: No. You approved the concept to join.
Mr. Plummer: OK, Mr. Odio, excuse me.
Mayor Suarez: We approved that we have the form, you know. We raised
objections, remember? We said that it was only for an extra year.
Mr. Odio: No, we waited until we had that ordinance passed in the County and
now it is before you.
Mr. Plummer: I am putting on the table that I was so notified.
Mr. Odio: Commissioner...
Mr. Plummer: I don't want you to come back in three months and say: "Hey,
Plummer, why didn't you tell me?"
Mr. Odio: Let me explain to you why we held the agreement back. We held the
agreement for your approval until we got the other part. Now that we have the
other part, we have put it into the agenda, but, as I understood it, we had
the 20%...
Mr. Plummer: I'm putting it on the table, Mr. Odio.
Mr. Odio: That's a good point.
Mr. Pajares: It may have been withdrawn because the Law Department did not
agree with part of the document that was drawn by Kenny Myers.
vg 52 September 5, 1946
Mr. Plummer:
And exactly why Kenny Myers called me and I am merely laying it
on the table.
There is a gray area that needs to be resolved. I am sorry
. _._
that I put something
on the table but I think it's more important to lay a
-• j
million and a
half dollar problem on the table than to have someone come back
at a later date
and say "Why didn't you tell me?"
n_
Mr. Odio: I think that's great.
Mr. Pajares:
Commissioner, may I tell you what I think the gray area is?
Mr. Plummer:
I know what it is, OK? I think it needs to be resolved. That's
what I think.
Mr. Pajares:
The agreement that Kenny Myers had had a renovation clause
automatically
by the County doing it. In the transcript of the tape, you,
when you were
explaining to the Commission you said that we had to pay $100 a
year.
4
Mr. Plummer:
That was the first proposal.
R-°
Mr. Pajares:
Correct. The second proposal that they sent did not include
that we had to pay...
lz
Mr. Plummer:
They withdrew that.
Mr. Pajares:
That's correct. So by the County giving the money, the County's
money - which
is 60%, or something like that - we automatically renewed the
agreement. If we did that we would get that money from the County - from the
T.D.C. That's my understanding.
Mr. Plummer: All right, sir. Here again, I'm laying it on the table.
Mr. Pajares: No, it is great. The host committee's money is also...
Mr. Plummer: Tony, how about starting off with the Convention and Conference,
telling me why the average employee in your department is making $67,000 a
' year.
r< € Mayor Suarez: That's the average cost per employee?
a Mr. Plummer: Yes.
Mr. Pajares: Are you referring to the fringe benefits or the...?
Mr. Plummer: Sir, I am referring to the fact that you show, on page 269,
personnel in your department is 605,746 for nine employees.
Mr. Pajares: There is a misprint in the book. It's actually 12 employees,
Commissioner. Sorry, that's...
Mr. Plummer: Oh, boyl
Mayor Suarez: Do you have a higher overhead, do you think, than other
departments?
Mr. Plummer: Well, I want you to look, Mr. Mayor. That was my second
question. I want you to look at the operating expense of $11 million.
Mayor Suarez: Does that include promotional...?
Mr. Pajares: Commissioner, that also...
Mr. Plummer: Is that also a mistake?
Mr. Pajares: No, it's not a mistake.
Mr. Plummer: I would hope it wasl
Mr. Pajares: That includes an increase of close to a million point two, which
is the million point two that the County is giving and it is in the budget of
the Bureau, although it will not be used.
va 53 September 5, 1906
Mr. Plummer: You cannot do that, sir. Mr. Manager, Mono - the Charter says
you must give to this Commission a balanced budget. You don't have that
money. This Commission has not approved where that money is going. Now, how
in the hell can you give me what you call a balanced budget and this
Commission's not made a decision yet?
Mr. Odio: We have an ordinance giving the money to the City. Whether we
physically have the money or not, that's like any other revenue...
Mr. Plummer: I understand we're going to get the money but you've got it in
here and locking it in before the Commission has made a decision on it.
Mr. Odio: On receiving the money?
Mr. Plummer: No, sir. On where it's going.
Mr. Odio: No, we sent the money there for you to decide what to do with it.
Mr. Plummer: No, sir, you've already got it in this called "Conferences and
Conventions".
Mr. Odio: But it's not... I said it up front before this morning that the
money is there for you to decide what you want to do with it. If you want to
pull it from here and ...
Mayor Suarez: Are we arguing whether it's contingent money or are we arguing
whether we should be deciding at this point already to spend it, even though
it's not part of our...
Mr. Odio: That's what I did. I put it into that since it is earmarked for
promotions...
Mr. Plummer: That's not my area of concern, Xavier. My area of concern is
that in the past about 500-600,000 a year of that money has gone to the
maintenance of the Orange Bowl.
Mr. Odio: And it still has to do, by the way, by ordinance.
Mr. Plummer: OK. And here we're now finding it locked into Convention
Centers without the Commission approval.
Mr. Odio: No.
Mr, Surana: No...
Mr. Pajares: The actual budget of the sales department, of the conference
department is $527,000.
Mr. Surana: And the different is to be appropriated by the City Commission.
Mr. Plummer: Say it again?
Mr. Surana: Out of 1.2 million, approximately 500,000 used for...
Mr. Pajares: The sales department.
Mr. Surana: The remaining 700,000 sitting as a reserve to be appropriated by
the City Commission.
Mr. Plummer: But it's still under this budget?
Mr. Surana: Yes, sir, It's set up as a reserve.
Mr. Plummer: All right. Would you give me some idea... I mean, $11
million - that's 10% of our budget - is going into operating expense of this
Metrorail - commonly referred to, I think, as "Boondoggle".
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: No, no. Where is the money going? This is the only thing you
give MO. Excuse me. I'm a Commissioner and this is what you give me of where
$11 million of my money is going. I'm sorry, is this fair?
v8
54
September 5, 1986
Mr. Pajares: Commissioner, maybe this chart can explain to you a little bit
of where the money is going.
Mayor Suarez: What's F.M.G.? We know what administrative is. What's F.M.G.?
Mr. Plummer: They're the outfit that run the place - maybe.
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mayor Suarez: What's...
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mayor Suarez: What is F.M.G., Tony? That's the contractual...?
Mr. Pajares: That's the management company that heads the place.
Mayor Suarez: And we're stuck with that, right, because of the bonds?
Mr. Plummer: We're stuck with that because the University of Miami made it
mandatory.
Mayor Suarez: Well, it's a bond requirement, too, I think, right?
Mr. Pajares: Commissioners, the first line includes when we consolidated the
department. The savings for that department was $101,000. The second line
there, in parentheses, is the savings in the difference in the budget that
F.M.G. had requested and what we have approved this year. The parking garage
they also have requested more money and we reduced it to 843, saving 116,000.
The rest is debt service, depreciation. The total consolidation...
Mr. Plummer: Wait a minute, Tony, hold on a minute. Mr. Manager,
Mr. Odio: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: I was told by Mr. Carlton that that parking garage this year for
the first time was going to break even.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) That's what he said. The fact is that it's not
happening that way and the parking garage is not doing well. We are
addressing that problem. I have notified him that he has to address that
problem or that we might take the management away.
Mr. Plummer: Well, wait a minute now. This Commission depends on you so-
called expert high-priced help to give us the truthful answers and I want to
tell you that if Roger Carlton stands up before my Commission and tells me
that we're going to break even and yet you're telling me we're going to spend
$843,000 worth of subsidy, that ain't a little bit of difference.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) We're waiting for him to come back from vacation
because he needs to sit down with us and he has to address...
Mayor Suarez: Is that somewhat exaggerated, maybe? Could the figure turn out
to be a lot lower than that, Tony?
Mr. Pajares: It could be even more because I understand that...
Mayor Suarez: Could be more of a loss?
Mr. Pajarea: Yes. I understand that revenues are falling. We received a
letter from Roger Carlton two or three days ago saying that - and we have
somebody...
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (OFF MIKE INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Plummer: (OFF MIKE) Are you from Off -Street?
Mr. Dan Morhaim: (OFF MIKE) Yes, I am.
Mr. Plummer: (OFF MIKE) Well, now, who's telling the truth?
ve
55
September 5, 1986
ellf Jw
s
Mr. Morhaim: (OFF MIKE) The 843,000 is not a subsidy.
Mr. Plummer: What is it?
Mr. Morhaim: (OFF MIKE) It's our operating expenses...
Mayor Suarez: Does it take into account the income?
(INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS)
Mr. Robert Clark: J.L., would you get to the microphone for the Clerk.
Mr. Plummer: If I could get my back.
Mr. Clark: Dan, use one of these microphones.
Mr. Morhaim: The 843 is not a subsidy. That is the operating expenses of the
garage.
Mr. Plummer: But wait a minute. If Mr. Carlton, who stood before our
Commission and made a statement that that facility is going to this year break
even...
Mr. Morhaim: When you combine, excuse me, when you combine...
Mayor Suarez: Are you saying that doesn't show the revenues, is that what
you're saying?
Mr. Morhaim: No, that doesn't show the revenues.
Mayor Suarez: Now much is the revenues?
Mr. Pajares: Put the chart of the revenues to the garage.
Mr. Morhaim: The revenues for the garage are 1.6 million.
Mr. Pajares: Projected.
Mr. Morhaim: Projected.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me. Basic, simple English. Is Mr. Carlton making a
correct statement when he stood before my Commission and said that this
facility was going to break even? It was a simple statement.
Mr. Morhaim: Based on our projections it will break even.
Mr. Plummer: Then why are their projections showing $843,000 of subsidy?
Mr. Morhaim: That is not a subsidy, Commissioner. That is the expenses of
the garage.
Mr. Plummer: $843,000 expense to the taxpayers. Call it what you like.
Somebody's got to be wrong.
Mayor Suarez: Wait a minute. I think they're trying to say that it's offset
by $1.6 million of revenues.
Mr. Morhaim: It's offset by $1.6 million.
Mr. Plummer: But you can't put it in a budget as an expense item.
Mr. Morhaim: Well, you have to have some in expense to run the garage.
Mr. Dawkinst So we have to subsidize it because you need the expense to run
the garage.
Mr. Morhaim: No.
Mr. Dawkins: The citizens must subsidize it.
Mr. Morhaim; No. Let me clarify.
vg
56
September 5, 1986
tit04,
Mayor Suarez: Mano, can we not show the net figure in the budget instead of
the gross on both sides?
Mr. Pajares: Let me try to explain. The revenues are this. The expense is
843 but that's a debt service of 1.2 which...
. ,
Mayor Suarez:
I see, OK.
Mr. Dawkins:
But the debt service -
but we are responsible for the debt
service, Mano,
are we not?
Mr. Surana: Yes, sir.
Mr. Dawkins:
Well, that means - I don't
care what you're talking about - the
City of Miami
has to come up with $1.2
million.
Mr. Surana: The expense is $2 million,
roughly. Revenue of 1.7. We're going
to lose about
$300,000.
Mr. Plummer:
Well, then, why have you
got eight hundred and some thousand in
f?=:.
the budget?
Mayor Suarez:
That's the operating.
Mr. Surana: Operating expense
Mr. Dawkins:
Are you telling me that we...?
Mr. Odio: We
have to pay them to operate it.
Mr. Surana: We have to pay Off -Street Parking for running the facilities.
Mr. Plummer:
Well, I don't call that breaking even.
Mr. Odio: No,
it's not breaking even.
Mr. Morhaim:
No, it's not. We are losing about 300,000 next year. This year
we lost about
700,000.
K--:'
Mayor Suarez:
What he said at the hearings at the Commission was that he was
going to come
close to breaking even and it's not that close, is what it
sounds like.
Mr. Pajares: He's not taking into account the 1.2 debt service.
Mayor Suarez: No, he was, he was.
Mr. Plummer: He was?
Mayor Suarez: Yes. But if we lose $3-400,000 that's not very close to
breaking even on that kind of a budget.
Mr. Morhaim: Can I clarify one more issue? There is other revenues that are
a component of the garage, per se, such as the retail space that is within the
garage and the air rights revenue which are part of the component unit. If
you look at a garage...
Mayor Suarez: How much do we get for the air rights?
Mr. Morhaim: I believe it's $160,000.
Mayor Suarez: And from the retail?
Mr. Morhaim: The retail space, I think, we're projecting over $200,000.
Mayor Suarez: Maybe he was adding it all up together and coming up with...
Mr. Morhaim: So if you add all that together and look at the facility as a
single unit, then we're projecting that it will break even.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) You're not going to break even. We'd like to have a
meeting with you guys because we have to make some management changes there so
we can break even.
vs 57 September 5, 1986
"YF ,
Mr. Dawkins:
(OFF MIKE) We should
'-
Mr. Plummer:
Tell me again how much the revenue is
supposed to be from the
retail space.
IN;
c
Mr. Pajares:
299,000.
Mr. Plummer:
Am I correct in remembering that we were
getting $18 a
square
foot?
Mr. Pajares:
Carlos, are you, do you...?
Mr. Plummer:
Am I also correct in remembering there's approximately
30,000
square feet?
That doesn't come out to $299,000.
Anybody know?
Don't
everybody speak
at one time. We represent here about
a million dollars
worth
of salaries and nobody knows the answer.
=.;.
Mr. Pajares:
Lease Management - are they here?
Mr. Plummer:
Mr. Odio -
j Mr. Odio: Yes, sir.
Mr. Plummer: How much does Centrust pay us a square foot for that retail?
It's around $18 a square foot, as I recall. They were the high bidder. Is
there not around 30,000 square feet?
Mr. Odio: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Of retail? That comes out in my book to $540,000 and Mano's
telling me 299. Where's the problem?
;.. Mr. Odio: Where did you get the...?
n' Mr. Pajares: Alan Poms was in charge of that lease, told us it would be 299.
Unfortunately, he's not here.
Mr. Morhaim: There's a possibility it's a partial year.
s�` t Mr. Odio: Let me check into it and...
Mr. Plummer: No, this is a projected budget. This is for the full year of
next year.
Mr. Pajares: Commissioner, on the 30,000 square feet, does that include the
hallways and stuff or just...?
Mr. Odio: We're responsible for the hallways.
Mr. Plummer: I remember when they put out an R.F.P. to bid for the retail in
the parking structure, there was 30,000 square feet and the high bid came in
at $18. That's all I remember. Now, I could be wrong.
Mr. Odio: No, I think I'd better give you a complete answer on that because
there was a complicated legal settlement in that area and I'll come back to
give you an answer exactly how many square feet we're talking about.
Mr. Plummer: Would you go back to the $11 million breakdown, please. Excuse
me, Mr. Manager, may I suggest that everybody else go home, because I am in
ten minutes and we're not going to get to anybody else today.
Mr. Odio: Can I ask a question? Are we going to have any more budget
hearings?
Mr. Plummer: I'm sure we are.
— Mx. Dawkins: What happens now to the Sports Authority?
Mr. Odiot Well, they're here.
Mr. Dawkins: Where are they?
vs
58
September 5, 1980
i,
s Pyx
atiF''< i
Mr.
Odio: Larry! Is Larry Turner here?
s.'.
Mr.
Dawkins: I don't need but one thing...
wr
Mr.
Plummer: If we don't approve their budget they're out of business.
Mr.
Dawkins: I motion we adjourn.
Mr.
Odio: Do you want to reschedule the departments that are left for another
day.
Mrs.
Kennedy: I think we should.
Mr.
Plummer: We'll have to.
.'..
Mr.
Odio: When do you want to do this? Monday afternoon?
Mr.
Plummer: First day of every month.
Mr.
Odio: Fine with me.
Mr.
Plummer: Remember when Ferre did that? It lasted for one month.
Mr.
Odio: It lasted the first...
Mr.
Plummer: Let's talk about it. We'll get back in touch with you.
Mr.
Odio: Oh, OK.
Mr.
Plummer: Because the one I want to get is Finance. I'm just biting at
the
bit to grab Carlos. Let him go home and worry over the weekend!
Mr.
Dawkins: That's about the only time he's going to talk is during the
budget
hearing.
Mr.
Plummer: Carlos, I'm giving you all weekend to go home and think about
those cockamamie forms that you send us taxpayers. And I would be very
pleased on Monday if you come back with a simplified form not wanting to know
what my sex is in operating the business.
zFj
Mr.
Dawkins: Because he doesn't know himself.
Mr. Plummer: My answer on the form every time is "not very often"!
Mr. Dawkins: OK, are we going to meet Monday afternoon?
Mr. Plummer: I don't know that I can make it then.
Mr. Dawkins: Well, make it Wednesday afternoon. Are you going to notify us?
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE INAUDIBLE)
Mr. Dawkins: Have you got anything else for Tony, J.L.?
Mr. Plummer: He hadn't even started. I want to go through this $11 million.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) we just signed the AAU basketball
tournament 1988, which will bring about 3,000 people to Miami.
Mr. Plummer: Super.
Mr. Pajares: What was it you wanted to know about this sheet, Commissioner?
Mr. Plummer: Well, I want to know where this $11 million is going. What is
the administrative different than the administrative that of personnel
services? What administrative are you talking about?
_—= Mr. Paj cress (OFF MIKE) This is the budget for the administration of the
center. That's the office that's there now.
Mr. Plummer: Is that your office?
vg 59 September 5, 1906
W
Mr. Pajares: (OFF MIKE)
charged to the Bureau
Let me show you a chart. Yes, sir. My salary is
Mr. Plummer: Hey, look, instead of taking any more of your time, I want a
breakdown of where that $399,000 is going.
Mr. Pajares: OK, we have it.
Mr. Plummer: Well, you can give it to me over the weekend, OK? I want to
know... I've asked for a profit and loss, basically, as you refer to it here,
for F.M.&G. I've asked for a complete breakdown on that one. Debt service I
don't need anything on. Depreciation I don't need anything on. Marketing and
special events I want a breakdown on, and that's it. Now, the other question,
Tony, that I'm going to have for you - and I think it's a very good question
that needs to be addressed during budget, Mr. Manager - we know that a
million -two is coming from T.D.C. and I need to know if we don't add X dollars
and we only leave a reserve, how are they going to operate? That's what I
need to know.
Mr. Odio: Let me tell you something. It could this year be as high as a
million -six. We are underestimating.
Mr. Plummer: I'm well aware of that and we're also aware that without us
knowing it we're sponsoring the Lipton tennis tournament because of that.
Mr. Odio: Well, ..., yes.
Mr. Plummer: I'm saying is that if we get a million -six and we dedicate so
much to this Bureau and we dedicate so much to the Orange Bowl, I think we
need...
Mr. Odio: How much is you got left.
Mr. Plummer: Exactly.
Mr. Odio: I'll let you know.
Mr. Plummer: So you can give me that information over...
Mr. Odio: Over the weekend.
Mr. Plummer: Yes. (INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS) I thought it was more
than 18,000 square feet.
Mr. Pajares: (OFF MIKE) I think maybe retail space here. They
count the whole but the rental space is not there.
Mr. Plummer: Yes, that's a lot different than that and that I thought of
30,000.
Mr. Pajares: (OFF MIKE) Maybe the total area is 30,000 and when you break it
down
Mr. Plummer: Mano, am I to assume that we're not going to be here? Should be
take this stuff back to the office?
Mr. Surana: We'll have someone deliver it to your office.
Mr. Plummer: OK fine, thank you.
Mr. Odio: (OFF MIKE) Mr. Turner is here.
Mr. Plummer: Excuse me? I'm sorry. I'm the only one left here. (INAUDIBLE
BACKGROUND COMMENTS) You want to go with it?
Mr. Odio: Yes.
Mr. Plummer: Go with it. I haven't seen his budget. Boy, are you lucky.
There were three here waiting, biting at the bit to get you.
vg 60 September 5, 1986
15. PRESENTATION BY SPORTS AND EXHIBITION AUTHORITY.
Mr. Larry Turner: Mr. Commissioner, I'd be happy to walk you through it if
that would help any.
Mr. Plummer: Try to do it quicker another way.
Mr. Turner: OK.
Mr. Plummer: I have no further questions.
Mr. Turner: Thank you very much.
THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE CITY
COMMISSION, THE METING YAS ADJOURNED AT 4:50 P.M.
ATTEST:
!Natty Hirai
CITY CLERK
Palter J. Foeman
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
Xavier L. Suarez
!MAYOR
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61
September 5, 1906