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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1989-11-09 MinutesMINUTES OF SPECIAL WORKSHOP OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA REGARDING METROMOVER On the 9th day of November, 1989, the City Commission of Miami, Florida, met at its regular meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami, Florida in Special Workshop Session in connection with the proposed extension of the Metromover. The meeting was called to order at 2:00 p.m. by Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr., with the following members of the Commission found to be present: ABSENT: ALSO PRESENT: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner M. Athalie Range Vice Mayor Victor De Yurre Commissioner Miller Dawkins Mayor Xavier Suarez Cesar Odio, City Manager Jorge L. Fernandez, City Attorney Matty Hirai, City Clerk 1. DISCUSSION: PROPOSED EXTENSION OF THE METROMOVER SYSTEM Mr. Plummer: He will not be attending. Don't say that. I've seen the Mayor jump in and jump out. OK. So, the purpose of this meeting - I'm going to chair this because I'm the only one here. The purpose of this meeting, for the record today, of course, is the 9th day of November, the time is 2:00 o'clock and the workshop is for purpose of the extension of the Metro Peoplemover and there are areas of discussion that came up at the last Commission meeting. There was a number of areas, but basically resolved down to two and those two were the one station that is proposed to exist in the Bayfront Park - excuse me - Bicentennial Park, I still think it's all one and the other about the N.E. 2nd Avenue potential reducing of three lanes to two. Now, that was the real crux of today's meeting. To the Planning Department, do you wish to make a presentation first or they'll make a presentation first? Mr. Manager. Mr. Odio: You know the issues. Do you want to take one by one and instead of making a formal presentation. Mr. Plummer: Well, I had the opportunity prior this morning to have a memo from Mr. bad Sergio. Can I get another ash tray, please? Mr. Odio: Here, take mine. Don't smoke... 1 November 9, 1989 Mr. Plummer: You're telling me don't smoke and you got a cigar in your hand. I'm a funeral director, I get a freebie, you, I charge. Let's ask the guest from Metro. How would you like to proceed? Do you all want to make your presentation - here, we now have an agenda. INAUDIBLE COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Carlos Bonzon: What we had intended was to give you... Mr. Plummer: For the record, your name... Dr. Bonzon: My name is Carlos Bonzon, I represent the Metro Dade County. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Bonzon: Like I was saying, Commissioner, it's really up to you. What we had in mind was to give you a quick overview of the entire project. Take you through the proposed alignment for the south leg, then the north leg and in going through the north leg alignment, address the specific issues that before you today. Mr. Plummer: Look, I have no agenda hidden or on top of the board. That's fine with me, proceed. As long as everybody has the opportunity to have their say and their thing and Mr. Salomon, are you here for a reason? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, sir. Mr. Plummer: No, sir. INAUDIBLE COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD. Mr. Plummer: Good, sir, nice to see you. For the record, Mr. Russ Marchner, the CEO and the humble servant of the Dade League of Cities is here, whether he speaks or he doesn't. We hope he doesn't. Do you want to turn the hand mike on? She'll turn it on for you. Dr. Bonzon: Ready. Very quickly, budget: $240,000,000. Seventy-five percent funded by the federal government. That's $186,000,000. Mr. Plummer: Seventy-five percent? Dr. Bonzon: That is correct, amounts to $186,000,000. Florida DOT, $31,000,000, thirty-one. Mr. Plummer: Thirty-one million. What percent, do you know it off the bat? Oh, here, I've got it here. OK. Dr. Bonzon: Twelve and a half percent of the local share. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Bonzon: City of Miami, slightly over $7,000,000 and the special assessment district, $24,000,000. Mr. Plummer: OK. Excuse me, does everybody have the opportunity and members of the press? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We're passing it out now. Mr. Plummer: You're passing out this document? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, we are. Mr. Plummer: OK, and what about the documents, Sergio, that you have? Have you passed those out to the press and anybody that copies available? 2 November 9, 1989 Mr. Sergio Rodriguez: No, but we have them available. This is a memo from Mr. Waters to Mr. Rodriguez, dated November 8th of 1989. Mr. Plummer: OK, go ahead and proceed, sir. Dr. Bonzon: Schedule we have 57 month to implement the entire project. Mr. Plummer: From what date? When did the clock start running? Dr. Bonzon: May 11th. Mr. Plummer: Of this year. Dr. Bonzon: This past May llth. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Bonzon: Which means project completion March 25th, 1994. Mr. Plummer: March... Dr. Bonzon: Twenty-fifth, 1994. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Bonzon: We are presently into final design. We plan to complete final design in August of next year which means we could be under construction in January 1991. Mr. Plummer: OK, now when you're speaking to that, you're to both legs. Dr. Bonzon: Both legs. Mr. Plummer: North and south. Dr. Bonzon: That is correct, sir. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Bonzon: The alignment that we presented to our transportation subcommittee of the County Commission was essentially a refinement of the alignment shown in EIS, the environmental impact statement. The refinement that we perform was done in accordance with three basic objectives. Number one, maximize operational efficiency. We try to avoid curves as much as possible. We try to avoid a roller coaster effect because you pay an operational penalty. Number two, to minimize project cost we want to be in a position that we can complete this project within budget. One way to minimize project cost is to minimize right-of-way acquisition. So what we have proposed to our Commission is that we place as much of the alignment as possible on public right-of-way. That way, not only we minimize cost, but time wise it's very important because relocation is a very time consuming effort. The third objective was whatever possible to maximize joint development potential. Especially where we have to go through private properties. We have no choice. In the south leg, it's one point one miles long. It will have six stations. Mr. Plummer: That's the south leg or the north? Dr. Bonzon: That's the south leg. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Bonzon: From north of the river to S.W. 8th Street, what we have done different from the EIS is that we shifted the alignment east as much as we could. That was done strictly to minimize 3 November 9, 1989 property acquisition and it was made possible because a house that before was eligible for historical significance no longer is. Therefore, we can either demolish the house or relocate it. That made it possible for us to shift the alignment east and save substantially right-of-way acquisition. Mr. Plummer: This is a house that had a historic designation? Dr. Bonzon: That is correct, sir. Mr. Plummer: Well, under our - Jack is saying no. Mr. Jack Luft: It was considered eligible for the... Mr. Plummer: For the record, Mr. Jack Luft of the Planning Department. Go ahead. Mr. Luft: The house was considered eligible for the national register which means that they had to ask the state historic preservation officer for a deter... Mr. Plummer: But they did not. Mr. Luft: ...for a determination. They did. The officer looked at the house, they assessed it and said, in their opinion, it was not a historic house. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Bonzon: An item that is very important is that south of 5th Street, we are making provisions so that the City can extend 1st Avenue all the way from 5th to 8th Street. Mr. Plummer: Now, 5th Street for the map purposes is the same as the equivalent of the river where the customs agency is now? Dr. Bonzon: The river is north of 5th... Mr. Plummer: Right. Dr. Bonzon: ...so it's the first street right after the river, after you cross the Miami River. Mr. Plummer: South of the river. Dr. Bonzon: That is correct, sir. Mr. Plummer: OK. And 1st Avenue does go from... Dr. Bonzon: 5th to 6th at the present time. Mr. Plummer: It does not go from 7 to 8. Dr. Bonzon: That is correct, so the plan... Mr. Plummer: That's a parking garage. Dr. Bonzon: That is right. The City's desire is to extend 1st Avenue from 6th all the way to 8th Street. Mr. Plummer: Correct. Dr. Bonzon: And that will be made possible by the County granting the City an easement after we acquire all this property between 6th and 7th and by the City getting a dedication from Doran Jason who owns the property east of the proposed alignment. Mr. Plummer: OK, who would acquire that property? Who would pay the owner of that property? Dr. Bonzon: We, the County, would acquire the property necessary for the alignment for the guideway and the station. Insofar as 4 November 9, 1989 1 the street portion, the County could, subject a County Commission approval, grant the City the easement required to continue the street from 6th to 7th. Now, from 7th to 8th, the City would have to acquire from the adjacent property owner, the easement necessary for that portion of the road. But the alignment, the way we're doing it, would not preclude the continuation of the street. Mr. Odio: We have been in conversations quite a few times, I believe, with the owner of that property and it's to their best interest that the street is extended so I believe that we will get that. Mr. Plummer: In your conversations, has there been an indication that he will do this gratis? Mr. Odio: It's to his interest that we extend the street and they will give us the land. Mr. Plummer: Free. Mr. Odio: The easement - yes. Mr. Plummer: OK, just for the record. Mr. Odio: If they don't, we don't extend it. But I feel that they will. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Bonzon: Something that is very important that we have done at the 8th Street station is, in the EIS, the station was shown straddling the street. We have shifted the station back to provide for a future connection and a proposed loop that I will describe when we get to the end of the line. This will be something that is, you know, take place in the future. Mr. Plummer: But this is the south leg. Dr. Bonzon: This is the south leg, yes, sir. Mr. Plummer: Where, in God's name, would the loop go? Dr. Bonzon: This would go beyond the last station at Coral Way and 14th, will go east to Bayshore Drive and then north to 8th and then come back west and tie back to the 8th Street station. Mr. Plummer: At a 16 foot level. Dr. Bonzon: Yes, sir. ------------------------------------------------------- NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Commissioner Range entered the workshop at 2:13 p.m. Mr. Plummer: Absolutely, I would be opposed to that. I'm speaking for one. You see, I have a problem. As we look at the expressway... let the record reflect that Mrs. Range is present. I have a problem looking at expressways today and, unfortunately, F you know, we know we have to have expressways. There's no other way of doing it. But if you look at the present expressways as I see them, in effect, they become a wall. And, I mean, when you go to a 16 foot level, even though they're open underneath, to me, it's a divider of your community. And I just really... I think it would be horrendous, in my personal opinion, if you were to take and put a 16 foot wall on South Bayshore Drive. I just... that's a potential in the future of a loop that may or may not exist. Mrs. Range, just to bring you up to speed, these gentlemen are from the County. They are taking us through the whole scenario of the proposed extension... 5 November 9, 1989 i i 11 Ms. Range: Yes. Mr. Plummer: ...that which they're present... no, no, go back to the other one, please. Let's stay on the 8th Street. And if I may quickly just - if I know Mrs. Range, I think I can bring her up to speed a little quicker. Ms. Range: Surely. Mr. Plummer: Mrs. Range, it starts on the right at the river... Ms. Range: Right. Mr. Plummer: ...it goes across the river, 1st Avenue is now open from 5th Street to 6th Street. It is not open from 6th Street to 8th Street. The blue is the station that you see there, and let me show you on this map here, that's this one. That there, they have talked with the owner of the property and have convinced him and he understands that it would be his best benefit to grant the easement over his property and have the station there and that, in effect, he would be giving that easement free of charge and would not be charging anything for that. OK, and now we're still traveling south, so, conductor, if you will take us on down. Dr. Bonzon: Yes, we are, sir. The next station will be at loth Street station which will be a key station, not only to serve the Brickell area, but also in connection with the proposed mall planned on loth Street that the City has. The escalators would land right at the main entrance to that proposed mall. Next station will be a connection to Metrorail at the Brickell station. The alignment turns on llth. It will connect to the existing Metrorail station on Brickell. We will add an elevator to the existing Metrorail Brickell station to make it more convenient and accessible, especially for the elderly and the handicapped. Then, the last station is the Coral Way, the alignment continues on 1st Avenue, turns east on 14th and terminates at 14th and Brickell. What we have done at the Coral Way station is, again to save land acquisition cost, we have gone to a single guideway at the end and we have shifted the alignment on to public right-of-way. You'll still have the two existing traffic lanes. What you will lose will be the two parking lanes and, in the future... Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, are we... I'm looking at this map and this map might not be the best in the world, but what I'm looking at is that this station is on Brickell Avenue or on 14th Street? Dr. Bonzon: Is on 14th and Brickell. Mr. Plummer: But is it on the street or on Brickell? Dr. Bonzon: Is on the street. Mr. Plummer: On the street. Dr. Bonzon: It terminates right before you get to Brickell Avenue. Mr. Plummer: OK. OK. Go ahead, sir. Dr. Bonzon: The sing... Mr. Plummer: Boy, these are old maps, Claughton Island. That's what I knew it as a kid. Go ahead. Dr. Bonzon: That's all I have to say briefly about the south leg unless you have any specific questions that you want me to address. Mr. Plummer: So, Mrs. Range, this leg, the south leg he has indicated, is one point one mile long and it has six stations. I 6 November 9, 1989 s ar think the only thing in question at this particular point is that at 8th Street between 7 and 8th Street which, in effect, by the way, would not only be for the Peoplemover, but it would also be a street opened up which it does not do today. Ms. Range: I see, it would be opened up. I heard you make mention of a wall... Mr. Plummer: No. Ms. Range: Where is that? Mr. Plummer: Excuse me, there is a proposed loop that he talked about, as I think, that he showed on the map that would come down this way here and back in at 8th Street. - Ms. Range: That's S.W. 8th Street. Mr. Plummer: And, to me, the Peoplemover, at a 16 foot elevation _ is technically, in my mind, a wall as we look at I-95 and we look at the others. Ms. Range: Oh, I see what you mean, yes. Mr. Plummer: And, to me, it's devastating and that close to the water. It's bad enough up here as if you were to tell me it was on Biscayne Boulevard. But that's my mind, OK? Dr. Bonzon: Well, I will be the first one to tell you that we would like to see all this underground. Mr. Plummer: Yes. Dr. Bonzon: However, the cost will be three to four times. Ms. Range: Yes, prohibitive, surely. Dr. Bonzon: Yes. North leg is one point four miles long. Mr. Plummer: One point four? Dr. Bonzon: That is correct. Mr. Plummer: So the whole thing, then, the extension... Dr. Bonzon: Two point five. Mr. Plummer: ...is two point... two and a half. Dr. Bonzon: Right. Ms. Range: And the south of that is what? Mr. Plummer: One point one. Dr. Bonzon: One point one. Ms. Range: Oh. Mr. Plummer: And you have how many stations in proposed? Dr. Bonzon: Six. Mr. Plummer: Six, so there's twelve stations. Dr. Bonzon: That is correct. The first three stations are on 2nd Avenue, N.E. 2nd Avenue. Mr. Plummer: That's the one you call Freedom Tower. Dr. Bonzon; Freedom Tower, Park/West and llth Street. 7 November 9, 1989 Mr. Plummer: That's the three. Dr. Bonzon: Right. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Bonzon: Again, one of the objectives in refining the alignment was to save land acquisition cost by placing the alignment on public right-of-way as much as possible. To that effect, we perform also, we had a consultant perform a traffic study which concluded •that, on 2nd Avenue south of 9th Street, we could go down to two traffic lanes. Ms. Range: It's N.E..... Dr. Bonzon: Northeast 2nd Avenue Mr. Plummer: Northeast two. Ms. Range: Second Avenue. Dr. Bonzon: South of 9th Street. Ms. Range: South of 9th Street. Dr. Bonzon: From 9th to 5th. We could go down to two traffic lanes provided we make some signal timing modifications. On that... Ms. Range: What side of the street do you hope to take that one lane from, the east or the west side? Dr. Bonzon: It will really... Mr. Odio: That's the one we don't want you to take, right? Dr. Bonzon: Right, I will address that issue right now. I'm just giving the Commissioners the background. On that basis, Commissioners, we, the County, have proposed to shift Park/West station such that we wouldn't have to acquire any private properties and go through the expense of relocation and time consuming. That would necessitate that we only have two traffic lanes through Park/West station. In a meeting with your administration, they proposed to us and they made it very clear it was subject to your approval, that if, in the event that we don't get the dedications. We're still working with the property owners to see if they will be interested in dedicating any land in exchange for connection rights and things like that. They proposed to us that, in the event we fail to get the dedication, if the County will be willing to share 50/50 in the acquisition cost of the parcels between 9th and 8th. And we said... Mr. Plummer: Why is it only in that one block? You've got a dedicated street width of 85 feet. OK, why... well, of course, dedicated, zoned, is basically the way, is almost the same. Mr. Odio: We'd have to realign the whole street. Mr. Plummer: Well, but what I'm saying is, why is it only that one particular block that has to - in question in reference to the two versus three lanes? Dr. Bonzon: When we first started, we were of the impression that we will be able to have all three stations within public right-of-way, llth, Park/West, Freedom Tower, without acquiring additional right-of-way. Eleventh Street went out the window because the traffic study said that south of I-395 to 9th, we had to maintain the three traffic lanes. So we knew, that as far as filth Street, we had to acquire private property. We had no choice. And one of the issues there is the municipal railroad which is one of the items that is before you. Now, as far as Freedom... 8 November 9, 1989 Mr. Plummer: Municipal railroad at 11th Street, not at 6th. Dr. Bonzon: Eleventh. As far as Freedom Tower, Commissioner, we also found out that no matter what we did, even if we narrowed down to two traffic lanes through here, we had to acquire private property. There is no other way of doing it. So it all boiled down to Park/West, that's the only station of the three where we can shift it on public right-of-way and avoid acquiring the property. Ms. Range: Let me ask you a question. How wide are each of the traffic lanes? Dr. Bonzon: Twelve feet, that's typical. Ms. Range: They are twelve feet. Dr. Bonzon: That's what we like to have, 12 feet. Ms. Range: And that is what they are between 8th and 9th that you hope to bring it down to two? Dr. Bonzon: At the present time, I'm not sure that we have 11 feet wide lanes or 12 feet. You now have three traffic lanes. Mr. Plummer: But you also have two lanes of parking. Dr. Bonzon: Most of the length of 2nd Avenue do, yes. Mr. Plummer: Yes, so it's actually five lanes wide. In a reality, it's five lanes. Ms. Range: And what's going to happen when you all of a sudden drop off to two lanes? And you're going to have some - unless something has already been suggested or worked out, for bringing, melding all of this traffic. You know, you're running three lanes at whatever the speed rate is there and immediately you've got to go into two lanes. Mr. Plummer: Isn't it more than that, Mrs. Range? If you have presently, today, three lanes with two lanes for traffic, they're going to two lanes with no traffic, they have gained an additional 30 - huh? INAUDIBLE COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD. Ms. Range: No parking. Mr. Plummer: No parking, I'm sorry. Ms. Range: No parking. Mr. Plummer: You've gained an additional 36 feet plus that from 85. Why do you have to acquire more property? Dr. Bonzon: You should be aware that not all property owners along 2nd Avenue have dedicated the, you know, what you _______ wide... Mr. Plummer: Oh, but they will learn to love it. Dr. Bonzon: That wide sidewalk. Mr. Plummer: If they want to get a building permit. Mr. Odio: I believe - I'll let him answer that - that you have to realign the whole Avenue. If you went into the 85 zone feed, you would have to realign the whole avenue. Am I correct? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's correct. 9 November 9, 1989 Mr. Odio: And that would cost more than if we just, you know, share on the cost of 50/50 on the acquisition. Mr. Plummer: Well, hold on a minute. Let me further, if I may, of you... Ms. Range: Go right ahead. Mr. Plummer: We're talking about a zoned width of 85 feet. Mr. Jim Kay: That's correct. Mr. Plummer: Correct, OK. Three lanes in his 12 feet instead of our eleven is thirty-six. Mr. Kay: Right. Mr. Plummer: Whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no let's don't talk about parking because they're not talking about parking. Let's talk apples to apples. Now, what happens with the other 49 feet? How many feet do you need to make this a reality? Dr. Bonzon: At station sites we need 40 feet. Mr. Plummer: You got forty-nine, with three lanes. Excuse me, unless my math is wrong, you have a zoned width of 85 feet, OK. Three lanes is 36... Mr. Kay: That's correct. Mr. Plummer: And then 49... that leaves forty-nine feet and he needs forty. What's the problem? Why are they even thinking about closing the lane? They don't even need it. They got - my mathematics say they got nine feet more than they need. Mr. Kay: OK, they're talking about building within the existing dedicated right-of-way. Mr. Plummer: Correct. Mr. Kay: Right. So, we have dedication on both sides of the street required. What we're saying that if we get dedication on both sides of the street, then obviously we can shift the roadway into three lanes. Mr. Plummer: Well, why wouldn't we get dedication? Don't we have eminent domain to go in an enforce it? Mr. Kay: We would, one, either have to go in and purchase the land or we would have to wait until those people came in with building permits which would trigger the dedication. Mr. Plummer: No, excuse me, are you saying to me that the City does not, under it's police powers, have the right to go in and to take property in a dedicated - what's the dedication mean if it's not dedicated? Hello? Mr. Jorge Fernandez: The City has the power of condemnation, but the question is whether that is the most expeditious way of going about it and the least expensive. The City's experience is that you may condemn, but you still have to pay fair market value and then the process of valuation when there is eminent domain, our experience has been that we end up paying more than... Mr. Plummer: Mr. City Attorney. Mr. Fernandez: Yes, sir. Mr. Plummer: Is it not a fact that in a dedicated right-of-way, that they have to set back from that dedication in compliance with their setbacks and all other requirements? 10 November 9, 1989 V is Mr. Fernandez: That's correct. Mr. Plummer: OK, so they can't use it. Is it not in an understanding, if nothing more, that it would be to their benefit to have this thing and to have the three lanes. Why would anybody refuse to give up that dedication? Mr. Sergio Rodriguez: The only thing that I would like to add and I will get Mr. Prieto to respond to the rest of the question, is... for the record, Sergio Rodriguez, that we only get that dedication at a time an applicant come for a building permit. Before that, the only way to acquire the dedication is by buying it. Mr. Plummer: How about asking? Mr. Rodriguez: Oh, that's what they're saying though. In the presentation, when Mr. Bonzon was speaking to you at the beginning, he said, they will try to negotiate with the property owners in the area to try to acquire from them the amount of land necessary. If not, then we'll go into an agreement and try to buy from them. Mr. Plummer: Let me tell you where you're wrong, Sergio. He, fine gentleman, has no clout. You, the City, have clout because you're going to hold control over them in the future in their development. I'm not saying that that's a gun with anything like that, but if I'm sitting back as a property owner and I'm dealing with him with a one shot and he's got nothing to benefit me except putting a line through there and I'm dealing with somebody who's in the City of Miami in which my property is, hopefully, going to be eventually developed, and I can't get a building permit without dedicating it, wouldn't it be better if the City dealt with these people? Don't we know these people? Can't we talk to these people with a little bit of clout that says, hey, guys, you're going to be a hell of a lot better off. Mr. Luis Prieto: Unfortunately, Mr. Commissioner, it's not that clear. We have been questioned on the legality of section 5448 in the past. Mr. Plummer: What the hell is that? Mr. Prieto: That's the section that we implement precisely to take these lands. Constitutionally, it has been questioned in the past throughout the states of the legality of the City being able to take property without compensation. Mr. Plummer: How many property owners are involved in just this segment? Mr. Prieto: I believe about five or six on this segment. Mr. Plummer: Four property owners. And Tom Post is one of them. Mr. Prieto: Um hum. Mr. Plummer: Who is the other? Did you sit down and talk with Tom Post? Who sat down and talked? -a name. Ms. Diana Gonzalez: My name's Diana Gonzalez, our Department of Development and Facilities Management. We have met with Mr. Post's representative and... Mr. Plummer: Did you talk with Mr. Post? Ms. Gonzalez: Mr. Post was also at one of our meetings. There's been a team approach in negotiating this. It's been the County, DDA, and City of Miami staff. And, yes, we have spoken with Mr. Post, we have sent them - we have made requests for easements. They have indicated that they would be interested in giving us those easements in exchange for certain development rights. We 11 November 9, 1989 have sent them a proposed easement agreement and we're waiting to hear back from them. That's the status of that. Now, in terms of the... Mr. Plummer: And Mr. Post owns a lot of other property in that area for future development. Ms. Gonzalez: That is correct. Mr. Plummer: Tom Post is no fool. A lot of people would like to believe he is, OK? I'm telling you that Tom Post would sit down and quickly realize that it's to his benefit if he were to develop his property on a two lane basis or a three lane basis, and have a rapid - or Peoplemover, it's got to be a plus item for the development of his property. And I tell you, in my estimation, Mr. Post would recognize that. OK. So, I guess you want to talk, if that doesn't occur. Mr. Manager, my question has to be to you, sir. Since you all so freely and greatly gave up the money of the City of Miami on a 50/50 cost basis if acquisition was necessary, where are you going to get the money? Mr. Odio: Well, first, for the record, I didn't give anything. Mr. Plummer: You offered. Mr. Odio: We said that we would recommend it to you and I am recommending to you now that we go ahead and go 50/50 with that so that we keep the three lanes open and the money will come from the... Mr. Plummer: What about if it's not necessary? Mr. Odio: If it's not necessary, we will not do it. Mr. Plummer: What is the cost to your projected... Mr. Odio: But the costs of realigning the whole avenue, I am told, is more costly than the acquisition of that property. Mr. Plummer: You guys give away your playing cards. Mr. Odio: Let me explain it one more time. Mr. Plummer: They don't keep their trump ready. Mr. Odio: Dr. Prieto, you're back. If you don't buy the property and move the station over and you want to keep the three lanes and we go on eminent domain and realign 2nd Avenue, it would cost more money than to buy the property in question. Am I right? Mr. Plummer: Doctor, to you and to Sergio jointly. Have you discussed, because here, I think you got a little far reaching... you know, not just here, I hope you're not talking just about here. If you reduce this down to two lanes, I, for one, will have to say to you that you've got to rezone that area because you cannot put the density in there that you had proposed at the present time. Mr. Prieto: True, true. Mr. Odio: That's why we're recommending... Mr. Plummer: So, you know, I'm telling you, that if we're forced to go to two lanes by virtue of the fact that the owners will not give up that dedication, then they have signed their own little pact that says, we're sorry, you guys wouldn't give up what is rightfully - you've got to do in the future anyhow - and we're going to have to rezone it to the effect of what density can hold for two lanes rather than three. Cesar, please, don't even talk about giving money away. 12 November 9, 1989 Mr. Odio: We're not. Mr. Plummer: But, you're already offering a million and a half dollars. Mr. Odio: Because, Commissioner, to the best interests of the downtown area, to the Port of Miami, to the Grand Prix event, and the park and other big events that we have in Bayside and other areas of downtown... Mr. Plummer: Cesar, Metropolitan Dade County... Mr. Odio: If you don't have three lanes in that avenue, which is one of your main entrances to the City... Mr. Plummer: OK, that's not going to happen. OK? I'm telling you right now, that's not going to happen. It's going to be three lanes and it's going to be in that dedicated right-of-way. I'm telling you that right now. The Port of Miami, hey, if they go down to two lanes, that means we got less trucks traveling downtown. Mr. Odio: But if we go down the dedicated right of way, the cost is higher than if we buy the property. Mrs. Range: But what I want to know is where does the two lanes flow back into three lanes? Dr. Bonzon: Once you get to fifth street. Mrs. Range: Once you get to third street? Dr. Bonzon: To fifth. Mrs. Range: Fifth, then it fans out again. Mr. Plummer: Am I to understand that this doesn't exist, that the Freedom Tower and llth Street, because you already have the dedication? Dr. Bonzon: No, there we have to acquire property. We don't have the dedication. Mr. Plummer: You have acquired property. Dr. Bonzon: We will have to condemn property there. Mr. Plummer: And how are you acquiring that property? Dr. Bonzon: Through condemnation. We'll go through the process. We'll make them an offer, and if they refuse, we'll go through the full process. Mr. Plummer: And where is that money coming from to acquire? Dr. Bonzon: From the budgeted funds. Mr. Plummer: Then why are you asking the City to pick up the other one? Why wouldn't you acquire it the same way? Dr. Bonzon: Because like I said at the beginning, Commissioner, we proposed to our Commission to refine the alignment based on three primary objectives. One of which was to save project cost by minimizing land acquisition. One way to do that is to place the alignment on public right-of-way as much as possible and we retain a consultant to address the traffic issues. That consultant concluded that south of 9th we could be down to two traffic lanes. That study is consistent with the DRI for the year 2000. And your administration came to us and proposed, subject to your approval, and they made that very clear to us, if we fail to get the dedications from the four property owners- and 13 November 9, 1989 ti a you're talking about one parking lot and three buildings. So the buildings would have to either be cut and refaced or demolished. They said in the event that you failed to get the dedications, would you consider sharing with the City 50/50 in the acquisition. Mr. Plummer: Let me tell you where I'm lost. The County out of this fund is acquiring private property at the Freedom Tower and 11th Street. Why is the City being asked to do it at Park West Station. Why wouldn't it come from the same fund? Dr. Bonzon: Commissioner, we're not asking the City. We're telling the City that we simply would shift the alignment and be down to two traffic lanes. Mr. Plummer: Why shift the alignment is what I'm getting at? Why would you not do the same thing at that station- I think you call it the 9th Street Station. Dr. Bonzon: Eleventh. Mr. Plummer: No, 9th, the Park West. Dr. Bonzon: Oh, Park West, yes. Mr. Plummer: Why would you not treat that as you do the one to the north and the one south of that? Dr. Bonzon: It would result in additional project cost. Mr. Plummer: That's your problem. That's not a City's problem. Dr. Bonzon: But it's something that we don't have to do. Mr. Plummer: OK, and if you don't, you're saying the only alternative is two lanes. Dr. Bonzon: That is correct. And in the future, the property owners across the street, they can dedicate whatever you need to add a third lane whenever they come to you for a building permit. Mr. Plummer: You mean at a later time, that we could get the third lane back, or rezone down to what the equivalent density would hold to two lanes. See, I just don't know why the City is asked to do this when we didn't create the problem. If they're doing it for the other stations, why the total project cost should not come from the total project fund? I don't understand that. OK, I think we understand the problem. So go ahead, let's go to the real big one that is a bugaboo and that's once you turn the corner up here. Dr. Bonzon: Let me clarify something, Commissioner. It may be that if this Commission were to take the position that they will not participate 50/50, as suggested by the administration, that our own County Commission may direct us to go ahead and acquire the property anyway. I don't know. It's up to our County Commission. We certainly would go back to them with a recommendation that we go back to two traffic lanes. They may not accept our recommendation. I just wanted the record to reflect that. And also... Mr. Plummer: I think it's got to be drawn out to them a clear picture that they're going to be hurting their port. Dr. Bonzon: I also want the record to reflect that if you were to share 50/50, that you would retain title to whatever property we don't need for the station and the guideway and you would be able to develop that yourself. Mr. Plummer: For what advantage? Sidewalk? Dr. Bonzon: I don't know. It's up to your administration. 14 November 9, 1989 Mr. Plummer: I think we understand the problem there. Remind me when I'm negotiating with the County for fire protection over on the port that we have a negotiating tool to talk about, because it will only cost the County about two million dollars to put in their own fire station over there. But they got plenty of money. Dr. Bonzon: Bicentennial Park, back in 1981, Commissioner, you may recall, because I think you were on the policy committee. Mr. Plummer: Yes, sir. Dr. Bonzon: The alignment that was adopted by you, Bicentennial Station was within the park. Mr. Plummer: But then also it went up Biscayne Boulevard rather than second avenue. Dr. Bonzon: That was one of the alignments that was proposed by your consultant, but the committee eventually adopted the alignment that we are now describing with the exception of the refinements. When the environmental impact statement was prepared, the station was moved across the on ramp. The reason it was moved, I'm told, is because as you may be aware, there is a Federal Law that says that you cannot use park land unless you demonstrate there is no prudent and feasible alternative. To do that, you go through what is known as a four F statement, which is like a mini EIS where you demonstrate that indeed there is no prudent and feasible alternative. As part of the four F, you have to go through what is known as a transit system management study or essentially you have to look at other alternatives, like an all bus alternative. So there were some fears that if the County were to prepare the four F that was required and go through the alternative analysis, that the project would be killed by the Federal government. Therefore, they shifted the station for purposes of completing the environmental impact statement north of the on ramp and they placed the station between the existing I-395 expressway and the on ramp. Now, the Florida DOT and the Federal Highway Administration, are on record as saying that they do not consider the allocation a prudent and feasible alternative, therefore, we got basically two options, either we delete the station altogether or- I should say three options- delete the station altogether, or relocate the station somewhere else, or for us to get an easement from the City and for us to place the station where it was supposed to be to start with, because it was requested by the City, I understand, that we place the station there. So the issue before you is, are you willing to grant us an easement at no charge for us to place a station? You could still retain the use of the area under the guideway as a park. Mr. Plummer: The shortest distance between two points... Dr. Bonzon: Is a straight line. Mr. Plummer: Correct. Why are you taking this thing to the left? What was the thinking or the rationale at llth Street of taking it to the east, then to the north, and then back to the west? Why did this not go straight up Second Avenue to lkth Street and then over to OMNI and back? Dr. Bonzon: Commissioner, I was not part of that, but if in reviewing the record way back many years ago, 1971, as you recall, there were fifteen, twenty-five different alternatives that were brought before the 30 member policy committee. Mr. Plummer: Correct. Dr. Bonzon: And some of them were these things that you are now talking about. Unfortunately those were not the ones adopted by the committee. 15 November 9, 1989 Mr. Plummer: OK, but that was in 171. It's changed radically since then in many, many ways. What is the benefit to the community of going in that loop rather than going straight up to 14th Street by 2nd Avenue and over to OMNI. God knows it would save a hell of a lot of money! Dr. Bonzon: Right now, basically... Mr. Plummer: And still serve the same purpose is what I'm getting at. Dr. Bonzon: I hear you, but right now you have the following scenario. You have completed an environmental impact statement for this alignment. We, the County, have entered into a contract with UMTA where we have to build this alignment and we got 57 months to do it and $248,000,000, so to go back and make changes like that, would mean going back to square one, essentially. Mr. Plummer: Well, but my understanding is if you don't build the station in Bicentennial Park, then you're going to endeavor to build one in front of the Miami Herald. Dr. Bonzon: One of our recommendations to our Commission will be that we consider relocating the Bicentennial Station to the Miami Herald Building. The other option would be to just delete the station altogether. Mrs. Range: Have you considered the difference between building the station in Bicentennial Park and building it probably in front of the Miami Herald as to the number of persons it would serve? Have you given that any consideration? Dr. Bonzon: From a transit standpoint, the patronage would be higher if we were to place a station by the Miami Herald Building. You have an employment center of 2,300 people, whereas in the park, you have a station that will serve the City only during lunch time and at special events. Mr. Plummer: Let me ask another question. Give me your estimation on llth Street, 9th Street and Freedom Tower. What is the walking distance from there to Bicentennial Park? - the west edge of Bicentennial? Dr. Bonzon: From 2nd Avenue to Bicentennial... Mr. Plummer: About 300 feet? It's one block, isn't it? Dr. Bonzon: I would say one block, 300 feet. Mr. Plummer: About 300 feet, which would take a walking time of two minutes, one minute? Dr. Bonzon: I would say three to four minute, maximum. Mr. Plummer: OK, three to four minutes. See, I personally, and I'm just making my personal observation, I think that there is more negative to having a station in Bicentennial than there is positive. I am thinking of crowd control, I'm thinking of things where you have gated admissions and you have in my estimation, three access points within 300 feet already of the Bicentennial Park. I can tell you from experience, Mr. Manager, that during the Grand Prix that the people went to this station, which is what, the Ed Com Station? The first one on 5th Street. Mr. Odio: That's the one at Bayside. Mr. Plummer: Nope, OK. Well, Bayside, all right... whichever one. Mr. Odio: That is the one Bayside is. 16 November 9, 1989 - G � Mr. Plummer: They used that and I want to tell you what we found out also. They were also using the rapid transit station, getting off and walking from there over to the grand Prix. I just don't see... how much does a station cost? Dr. Bonzon: Bicentennial, you are talking about $2,500,000 to $3,000,000. Mr. Plummer: Is that more or less than their average? Dr. Bonzon: That's the average. You got some stations that are more expensive because they are higher... Mr. Plummer: The average is $2,500,000? Dr. Bonzon: $2,500,000 to $3,000,000 is the average. Mr. Plummer: Who fell? Are they all right? Mr. Sergio Rodriguez: OK, just a little bit goofy. Mr. Plummer: It's goofy? Dr. Bonzon: That's all inclusive, Commissioner. Mr. Plummer: The Miami Herald said this is Disney World anyhow. But, I mean if you eliminate that station, if you eliminate that station, then you have $2,500,000 more to work with, is that correct? Dr. Bonzon: Provided our County Commission relocates the station. If we delete the station, it would simply, 75 percent of it goes back to the Federal government and we save the local share, we save 25 percent.. Mr. Plummer: Well, I'm thinking you could use that $2,500,000 to acquire this property down here which is just about what the cost of it is. Dr. Bonzon: Assuming our County Commission makes that decision, yes. It will be up to our County Commission. Mr. Plummer: I can't imagine the County Commission in their infinite wisdom of sending any money back. God help them if they do. OK, I'm just making my statement. I don't think that the plus items for a Bicentennial station are that critical when you have three stations within a two minute walk that already exist due west of the park area itself. Dr. Bonzon: You should be aware Commissioner, if I may, that even if we were to delete the station and relocate it, you still have the guideway itself going through the park. It won't be on park property, but will be on Florida DOT property. Mr. Plummer: That's correct, but it is not in park property, I understand that, that's correct. Dr. Bonzon: And at the present time, we had intended to do the so-called four F statement, which will cost the County some money. Obviously, if we don't have the station, we don't have to do that either, so there will be some savings there. Mr. Plummer: I am only speaking for one sir, OK? Mrs. Range: I'd like to hear from the Manager on that. Mr. Manager, what is your thinking on the Bicentennial Park Station? Mr. Odio: My concern is that at the present time the station might seem that it is not needed, but the future development of the area, like the FEC property with attractions like the aquarium that we are planning and museums and the restaurant that we are planning on this side, in the corner of Bicentennial Park 17 November 9, 1989 i 1 1 ft Ul for the future, I think we'd make a mistake if we don't build that station now. Now, it might seem that we don't need it right now, but... Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager, let me ask you a question, or let me ask of this gentlemen, since he is more familiar with the numbers. Tell me from what you call the Bicentennial Station, the distance from there to what we know as the FEC property. I don't know, it is not on there. I'm looking at a map that tells me that the Freedom Tower Station and Park West Station are a lot closer to the FEC property than this proposed station at Bicentennial. That's at the very north end of the park. The FEC property, if that is what you are speaking of, is from the inlet south and those two stations are a hell of a lot closer than that one that is being proposed. You see what I am saying? Mr. Rodriguez: You are absolutely correct, Mr. Commissioner and if you look at the Freedom Station, Freedom Tower Station that is closer... Mr. Plummer: This is here is what is referred to as the FEC. Mrs. Range: Yes, I know Mr. Plummer: These two stations are a lot closer than that station that you are proposing at the north end. Mr. Rodriguez: As I was saying, you are absolutely correct. That station is closer, if you look at the Freedom Tower as a separate station and look at FEC as one separate individual piece. If you remember in the plan that we worked out for downtown for the waterfront that was approved by the Commission in principle, we are looking at the whole Bicentennial slip, the deep water slip and the FEC as one package or a series of amenities that will be connected one with another and the location in Bicentennial that would allow people to get off at that station and walk through the whole area and experience the different amenities that we might have there is what makes this attractive. Remember, if we... the issue at hand at this point is if we don't give them the land that they need for Bicentennial, they will move the station and the alignment will not go through the City property at all and we will not be paid anything for that land, right? Correct? INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD. Mr. Rodriguez: What I am trying to say with this is, the benefit to the City will be that it will be a location for station in that area at the expense of some land which is, in my opinion, minimal in relation to the amount of land that is at stake over here for development. In the other side, what we have is an alignment that will not go at all through the park and that will have no benefit whatsoever for the City. This is your decision. That is what the position of the City has been. Mr. Plummer: Would somebody translate that for me? Mr. Rodriguez: Let me say that in English. Mr. Plummer: Does that me an you are for or against the Bicentennial Station? Mr. Rodriguez: We are recommending for Bicentennial. You are right about your statement on the location of FEC, but if you look that as one separate little area of the park, if you look at Bicentennial and FEC together, you are looking at a whole package of possible amenities that people can go from one place to another and getting off exactly at the park and moving through the whole place and experiencing the park. Mr. Odio: Like visiting a Christmas tree, what is the proportion of that tree or, you know. 18 November 9, 1989 Mr. Plummer: You know why there are donkeys in school? Mr. Odio: I know. Mr. Plummer: There are enough smart asses there now. Mr. Odio: No, but on the serious side... Mr. Plummer: Well, wait a minute, let's get to a serious side, OK, because I want to ask some other questions that you may not be able to answer this, but I'll find out real quick like. Where is the money going to come to operate this? Now, construction is over! Dr. Bonzon: General Fund. The County Is anticipated additional subsidy for Metromover, for the extension, is $1,800,000 a year. Mr. Plummer: For just the two and one-half miles. Dr. Bonzon: That is correct. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Bonzon: Overall, $4,000,000 for the entire system. Mr. Plummer: The entire Peoplemover system. Dr. Bonzon: Peoplemover system. — Mr. Plummer: So in other words, you are in deficit now.. give me that again. How much for this, $1,800,000? Dr. Bonzon: $1,800,000. Mr. Plummer: OK, and it's overall it's four... Dr. Bonzon: $4,000,000. That's what the EIS says. Mr. Plummer: So that's three point two that you're subsidy now, over revenues, I'm assuming? Mr. Jack Luft: Two point two. Mr. Plummer: Two point two, over revenues? Dr. Bonzon: That is correct. Mr. Plummer: OK. What is the potential ridership maximum of this system? Dr. Bonzon: The EIS anticipates 43,000 people a day. Mr. Plummer: Is that maximum, or anticipated? Dr. Bonzon: Anticipated for the year 2000, 43,000 a day. Mr. Plummer: And what is the maximum it could carry? Dr. Bonzon: I couldn't give you an answer. Mr. Plummer: Is it more? Dr. Bonzon: Oh, much more, yes, sir! Mr. Luft: 14,000 people an hour. Mr. Plummer: An hour? What is the system that is in use today carry? Dr. Bonzon: I would say 13,000 to 14,000 every day. 19 November 9, 1989 Mr. Plummer: Day, not an hour. Dr. Bonzon: Every day. Mr. Plummer: Day, so you know... and you are looking at that if you put a $5,000,000 or a $3,000,000 station, what do you anticipate the ridership for that station off and on would be? Dr. Bonzon: Zero. The EIS, for the purpose of the EIS, that station shows no patronage whatsoever because the patrons will be lunch time and special events, at the present time. Mr. Plummer: As opposed to the station to the north or south, what is the ridership of that a day? Dr. Bonzon: Each one varies. I don't have those specific figures with me, Commissioner. I'll be happy to... Mr. Plummer: Roughly. Dr. Bonzon: Omni station has the largest patronage, I believe it was 9,000 a day. Mr. Plummer: It's just financially, OK, to me, financially, it makes a lot more sense and I see great benefits and also keeping in mind, we were talking about the performing arts in the northside, that your ridership and your potential reduction of subsidy would make an awful lot more sense if this thing went up next to The Herald in front of the performing arts... Mr. Odio: There is a proposed station there that would have to be worked out with Knight-Ridder if the Performing Arts Center goes there. Mr. Plummer: Where is that money coming from? Mr. Odio: Oh... Mr. Plummer: Huh? Mr. Odio: They. Mr. Plummer: You see, look... Mr. Odio: That would be part of the development of the area, they would have to come up... Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager, Metro money... Mr. Osio: I don't mean Metro money. I mean Knight-Ridder money. Mr. Plummer: Metro... Knight-Ridder is not going to give the property for 99 years and build a substation too. Mr. Odio: If they want a substation there, as I was told by Phil Blumberg, they would have to negotiate to pay for it. Mr. Plummer: Mr. Manager, you heard my story before. Twenty- seven cents of every Metropolitan Dade County dollar comes from the City of Miami. Mr. Odio: Oh, I agree. Mr. Plummer: OK? They talk with pride and I salute them for one segment. The subsidy of transportation in Metropolitan Dade County, which is I understand the buses, rapid transit ad the people mover, this year has been reduced to $94,000,000, subsidy over revenue. Now, when you come here and you tell me that ridership at this $3,000,000 station is basically zero and the alternative if not this station in front of The Miami Herald which would have a tremendous potential more. I'm a taxpayer in this town, OK? And as far as I'm concerned, I don't see the plus 20 November 9, 1989 items to have that station here to the City's benefit. I see it over here where we'll pay less subsidy. Mrs. Range: So that means you are going to go beyond, you will be going over the causeway if you go to The Miami Herald. Mr. Plummer: Well, Ms. Range, as I understand it, that station here would be eliminated and it would come somewhere in here. Mrs. Range: But Bicentennial would be eliminated? Mr. Plummer: Bicentennial would be eliminated and there would be a station right about in here, is that about...? Dr. Bonzon: I'll show you when I get to the next... Mr. Plummer: OK. Mrs. Range: And then that would mean that you would have a station at The Herald and at the Omni? Dr. Bonzon: That is correct, Commissioner. Mr. Plummer: But also, Mrs. Range, if I understand correctly... Mrs. Range: Yes. Mr. Plummer: ... your Performing Arts is coming right in here. Am I correct? Sergio, come over here. This is going to be... The Herald Station as possible, is going to be very close to where the Performing Arts is contemplated. Dr. Bonzon: The way I understand it, yes, Commissioner. Mr. Plummer: OK, and it just makes more sense to me... what I said to Mrs. Range, isn't the Performing Arts coming right in here, approximately? OK, oh my God, you are even closer! Doesn't it make more sense to take that $3,000,000 and build a station at The Herald, I hate to use that word, it is an obscene word, in front of that morning tabloid, than it would be to be over here? I mean, we're trying to eliminate the cars, the parking and all of that. It just doesn't make any sense to me in any way, shape or form. Now, I am just expressing my opinion. Dr. Bonzon: Commissioner, I want to bring something to your attention. If we were to make that decision and we would shift F the guideway, that would preclude the City from ever having a station there. The best you could have would be only one platform south of the guideway, which means that you have to get on that platform and go north before you can go back south. Mr. Plummer: OK, but here again, if I didn't have the three stations within 300 feet of access of the park, which is basically north, central and south exits to the park, I would think differently, OK? You know, I've always had a big bugaboo in my mind why they didn't take the rapid transit by the Orange Bowl. It could have been just as easy an alignment, but they chose not to do it, God bless those who chose it. Dr. Bonzon: Again, the station is located there because the City requested that we have a station there. Mr. Plummer: The City's Administration? Dr. Bonzon: City Administration. Mr. Plummer: They don't pay taxes in this town, Mrs. Range. Mrs. Range: The only thing that bothers me a bit is these three stations getting away from Bicentennial or the proposed Miami Herald. We have the llth Street Station, the Park West Station and the Freedom Tower Station. Why do we have to have these 21 November 9, 1989 l three stations? It seems to me that your elimination... do you know what the traffic will bear in these three stations on that same line? Dr. Bonzon: Like Mr. Luft said, 14,000 per hour. Mr. Plummer: You are speaking of passengers on that or the car count? Mrs. Range: No, I'm speaking on the use... Dr. Bonzon: Passengers on the Metromover. Mrs. Range: Yes, the Metromover. Dr. Bonzon: Yes, we have the capacity up to 14,000 people per hour. I want to bring to your attention again, I was no part of it, but in going through the record, originally there were only two stations proposed on the 2nd Avenue. A third one was added and adopted by the policy committee back in 1981. Mr. Plummer: How close does this proposal come to the arena? Not that it is important because the rapid transit is right on one side, but does this come...? Mr. Luft: Three blocks. Mr. Plummer: Two, isn't it? Two blocks there. Mrs. Range: Which station would.that be? Mr. Plummer: Seven. Mrs. Range: Park West? Mr. Plummer: Or Freedom Tower, either one. INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD. Mr. Plummer: Actually, the Ed-Com Station is the closest, isn't it, of the Peoplemover? Mr. Luft: State Plaza is closest. Mr. Plummer: But the real close one is the rapid transit itself. So, if you don't put that station, is my understanding, then your guideway would go over the State property of the expressway. Dr. Bonzon: We have two choices and we need to get back with Florida DOT and see which one would be the preferred one. We could run the alignment on the south portion of the ramp or the north portion of the ramp. I would assume that they would prefer for us to have it south of the ramp because that way they can expand I-395. Mr. Plummer: Yes, that makes sense. Dr. Bonzon: Carl, do you have any comments on that? We have a representative from Florida DOT here. INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD. Mr. Plummer: Would you come up to the mike, please? Mrs. Range: Gentlemen, while he is coming to the mike, I came today because of my own interest in this. I'm not going to be able to stay throughout but it won't make a whole lot of difference, I won't be here to vote on this anyway. Nevertheless, if my wishes carry through, I'd certainly like to see that station in Bicentennial Park. I think that's one of the stations that will do much as development of a total Bayfront Park goes on and so my undertaker friend doesn't like me for that! 22 November 9, 1989 Mr. Plummer: No, no, no. Reasonable people can disagree, but they don't have to be disagreeable. Mrs. Range: I must leave now, I wish I were going to be here to vote, but they're throwing me out. You know that. Mr. Plummer: Well, there is no vote today, there is no vote today. Mrs. Range: I know. Mr. Plummer: Yes. Mrs. Range: All right, thank you very much. I have to leave now. Mr. Odio: Can I ask a question? On the proposed Miami Herald site or the Knight-Ridder site, or Performing Arts site, you will have a Mr. Plummer: Sure. Mr. Odio: ... prepared to go to the library or to the beach, is that...? Dr. Bonzon: That is another issue and is to be discussed. You know, how the light -rail would tie in to the Metromover extension. As you may be aware, there were two proposals recommended by the consultant to the City, Miami Beach. One was that it would come in McArthur Causeway and go up Herald Plaza and then tie into the proposed Omni extension, all elevated. The other proposal was that it would come into Bicentennial Park and go at grade under I-395, then terminate at the Omni Station. Again, Knight-Ridder Station has to be designed to incorporate such a possibility. Mr. Plummer: Let me ask another question. As part of this $93,455,000, the wording is very, very loose and I'm assuming you kept it that way, called other construction, procurement, miscellaneous and contingency. Needless to say there is gong to be a tremendous amount of disruption for the three years of construction. Are there monies in the fund for disruption of services? Dr. Bonzon: No, sir. If you mean business damages, and we have an attorney here, we usually do not pay business damages. Mr. Plummer: Well, who compensates those people that are basically put out of business? Let's use 2nd Avenue. 2nd Avenue has a number of businesses along 2nd Avenue, that face 2nd Avenue, and if they cannot get to their office or to their business and their clients can't get there, who compensates them? I mean, they surely can't be out of business for three years and expect to exist. Dr. Bonzon: Well, during construction, obviously we never denied access to any business. We try to maintain access at all times to all business. That we have to do. Mr. Plummer: I'm sure that's on the record and I hope I don't have to come back and remind you. OK, you wanted to make your comments, sir? You don't want to get on the record? Smart attorney. Mr. Tom Olson: My name is Tom Olson, Assistant County Attorney, we would in fact, provide access at all times during construction. There may be time periods when construction will require that a particular area not have access to the safety of the individuals involved as well as construction workers and that would be very minor disruption. At all times, just like we did on Metroraii construction and the other Metromovers, we provided 23 November 9, 1989 access at all times to businesses adjacent to our construction site. Mr. Plummer: OK, on NE 2nd Avenue, what is the minimum requirement of the right-of-way? Dr. Bonzon: What do you mean? I don't follow your question. Mr. Plummer: We were talking about an 85 foot dedication or zoned right-of-way. What is the minimum that you require for your trolly? Dr. Bonzon: The station, when we come to the station, we need 40 feet. Mr. Plummer: 40 feet, that's maximum. OK. Dr. Bonzon: Obviously, we always like to keep two or three feet off what we call the drip line of the guideway for maintenance and access purposes. Mr. Plummer: But that's included in the 40. Dr. Bonzon: Right, that's why we usually only need to acquire property when we come to a station. The guideway itself, we only need 20 feet. Mr. Plummer: So you are providing ten on each side. Dr. Bonzon: For instance, right along here we would only need ten, I mean, twenty feet. When we come to the station because - the guideways have to separate, provide for the platform, that's what creates a problem. Mr. Plummer: OK, in other words, what you are saying, is that at the station you are still providing ten feet on each side of the necessity of the basic construction. Dr. Bonzon: At Park West? Mr. Plummer: At any station. Dr. Bonzon: No. We only need 40 and we usually... Mr. Plummer: If you are telling me that the guideway is 20 feet? Dr. Bonzon: Right. Mr. Plummer: That's without a station? Dr. Bonzon: In areas where there is only guideways like here, for instance, we would only need 20 feet. That's the distance from outside of one gutter, or beam, to the other. We usually try to keep the guideway away from existing buildings if we can, four and one-half to five feet for safety reasons and for access reasons in case of an emergency. Now, if the guideway faces public right-of-way, then we don't have that problem. Mr. Plummer: OK. Dr. Bonzon: Moving right along, after we leave Bicentennial, we go over I-395 and again we have to design it in such a way that we accommodate the future bridge. We come to the Knight-Ridder, and if you are familiar with the building, with the canopy, were they have that canopy immediately north of the expressway, that will be the location of the station, the proposed station and assuming that Bicentennial were to remain in place, that this Commission would approve the Bicentennial station within the park, assuming that for a moment, we need an easement from Knight-Ridder to place the guideway and we need a corner, the corner here where we turn. 24 November 9, 1989 t i Mr. Plummer: Well, you'd need that anyhow, regardless. Dr. Bonzon: We need that from them and it has a value and we are now doing an appraisal. What they have proposed to us was that they will give us that easement that has a value and in return we would make provisions for a station. We have already got that in proposal from Westinghouse as to how much the provisions will cost. As to the future construction of the station and who will pay for it, that remains to be seen. Now, if this Commission were to say no to Bicentennial station then we will go back to our Commission with a recommendation, they may decide to delete the station, put it at Bicentennial, put it somewhere else, I don't know. Then we go up to the... to get to the Omni station, which is the one before last and this is supposed to be where all the bus transfers will take place, all routes coming from North Miami Beach and Miami Beach will terminate here at the Omni station and people will transfer. We are now working with the Equitable properties to have a pedestrian overpass connecting the Omni complex directly into the station. Mr. Plummer: You say that people would be coming from the north on a bus. Is it that reason they would transfer here to the Peoplemover to try to keep buses out of the downtown? Dr. Bonzon: That is correct, sir. EIS clearly contemplated that all bus routes will be terminated at the Omni station. Mr. Odio: OK, but you are not including any additional parking in the area? Dr. Bonzon: No parking in the area, no. Then proceeding west on 15th, the last station is the so-called Miramar station, which is next to School Board complex. This station has been placed as close as possible to the existing School Board building as you are aware. Mr. Plummer: That would be on the north side. Dr. Bonzon,. The alignment will be on the south, south side of 15th Street. Mr. Plummer: But it will be on the north side of the Administration Building presently. Dr. Bonzon: Oh yes, sir, yes. And what we have done in the EIS at the Omni site that I just showed you, it was contemplated that there will be additional storage for vehicles, for Metromover cars and a carwash. We are relocating that portion to the end of the line, because we feel that is where it belongs from an operational standpoint. In the future if we ever extend Metrorail to the northeast, then we will continue this line and there will be another tie-in to Metrorail. That's basically what I have, Commissioner, unless you have any other questions. Mr. Plummer: No, I am just, my main concern more so than anything is the concern is the expense of operation. What is the anticipated life of those cars? Dr. Bonzon: Twenty-five years, minimum, sometimes more. Mr. Plummer: Minimum? Dr. Bonzon: Yes, and sometimes more. Metrorail cars is 50 years. Mr. Plummer: Does the staff have any questions? Mr. Manager? OK, do you want to speak, or do you want Mr. Luft to speak? Mr. Luft has nothing to say. All right, who else wants to speak? Mr. Rodriguez: The only thing that I want to remind you is that there were five considerations in that we discussed with you and you discussed already Bicentennial and the SE Overtown Park West station. The were three other considerations. 25 November 9, 1989 Mr. Plummer: I don't... would you give me that, please? I don't have it. I saw it, but I don't have it. Well, number three, we don't even need to speak to at this time, correct? Mr. Rodriguez: No, number three deals with the zoning consideration which we are trying to get an answer, and the County was trying to get an answer and basically the response at this time from the City is that at the time that we deal with the zoning of that area, we will look at the idea of providing a bonus system for participation, cooperation and coordination with Metromover by the different property owners. If they cooperate and they participate in the way of donation of land or whatever, we will take that into consideration in establishing a bonus system for the zoning of that area. Mr. Plummer: But absolutely no contract zoning. Mr. Rodriguez: No, of course, that is illegal. And in relation to number four, municipal railroad... Mr. Plummer: Well, I think he spoke to the municipal railroad, that's on llth Street. Mr. Rodriguez: Right. Mr. Plummer: And the concern there is that it might be at one time, in a future date... Mr. Rodriguez: Uh huh. Mr. Plummer: ... that's the target for the high speed railroad. Mr. Rodriguez: Our terminals, yes, but we would like to keep that option open for ourselves. Mr. Plummer: OK. Number five we've spoken to. Mr. Rodriguez: I think you spoke to that one already. Mr. Plummer: We've already spoken to that, number one was... Dr. Bonzon: I think to spoke to that one too. Mr. Plummer: ... trying to hold up the City for money. What? Mr. Rodriguez: Bicentennial. Mr. Plummer: No, no, no. You don't understand. When the County comes to the City, they want something for nothing. When the City goes to the County, it works another way. That's not your problem. OK, is there anybody else, Mr. Marchner, Russ, do you want to add any comments? Mr. Marchner: Yes, sir. I appear before you, I'm Russ Marchner, as the South Florida representative of the International Long Shoremen's Association, Locals 1922 and 1416. We just wanted to urge anybody who might be listening it's essential that the three lanes on NE 2nd Avenue leading to the Port be provided in the future, because right now, as you alluded to earlier, that's a County problem we know, but right now, it is absolutely clogged, and the Port of Miami is suffering in comparison to other ports a little bit north of us. Mr. Plummer: That's why I say Russ, I think the County is got realize that if they cut it down to two lanes, they are cutting their own throat. Mr. Marchner: Right, and it is something that we are really worried about and that's why appeared before the County Commission and why I am here today. Thank you. 26 November 9, 1989 Mr. Plummer: Thank you, sir. Anybody else? Anybody else? Now, Mr. Manager, for edification this will come back before the Commission on November 16th? Mr. Odio: Yea, sir. Mr. Plummer: OK, and at such time there will be a vote. Madam City Clerk, I would like for you, if it's possible, to get this transcribed of what took place here today and make it available in a packet five days before the City Commission agenda goes out, or five days before the meeting, at the same time that the agenda goes out is what I meant. Mr. Fernandez: It can't be done, it is already gone. Mr. Plummer: It can be done. Mr. Fernandez: Tomorrow will be the fifth day and tomorrow is a holiday. Mr. Plummer: You don't know how fast she works. Do the best you can. Dr. Bonzon: One final note, Commissioner. In the next five years, I just wanted you to know that we will be more than happy to appear before this Commission at any time and give you a briefing on the status of the entire project. Mr. Plummer: I thank you sir very much for being here today. THEREUPON, THE WORKSHOP WAS ADJOURNED AT 3:14 P.M. DISCUSSION