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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1992-05-07 Minutesi MIAMI- OF MEETING HELD ON MAY 7, 1992 SPECIAL PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK CITY MALL MATTY HIRAI City Clerk M INDEX MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING MAY 7, 1992 ITEM SUBJECT NO. 1. PRESENTATIONS, PROCLAMATIONS $ SPECIAL ITEMS. LEGISLATION PAGE NO. DISCUSSION 1 5/7/92 2. COMMENTS BY COMMISSIONER PLUMMER TO M 92-270 CLARIFY, ON THE RECORD, THE INTENT OF 5/7/92 PRIOR MOTION 92-188, WHICH HAD APPROVED AN ALLOCATION OF $49,800 FROM TAX ANTICIPATION NOTES INTEREST TO THE LITTLE HAVANA ACTIVITIES AND NUTRITION CENTER, AS MATCHING FUNDS, TO OBTAIN STATE OF FLORIDA MONIES FOR MEDICAL SERVICES -- STIPULATE THAT SAID FUNDS WERE GIVEN NOT AS A LOAN BUT AS A CITY GRANT. 3. DISCUSSION CONCERNING AUDIT OF KEEP DISCUSSION DADE BEAUTIFUL. 5/7/92 4. (A) GENERAL DISCUSSION CONCERNING DISCUSSION PROTEST BY G-T SPORTS ENTERPRISES, INC. R 92-271 CONCERNING ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION 5/7/92 PROJECT PHASE II - SEAT REPLACEMENT 8- 6202 (BID NO. 90-91-069). (B) REVERSE CHIEF PROCUREMENT OFFICER'S DECISION TO REJECT PROTEST FROM G-T SPORTS ENTERPRISES, INC. 5. (A) SELECT CATEGORY "A" AS MOST R 92-272 DESIRABLE SEATING TO BE INSTALLED AT R 92-273 THE ORANGE BOWL. 5/7/92 (8) SELECT LOWEST BIDDER UNDER SEATING CATEGORY "A" IN CONNECTION WITH ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION PROJECT PHASE II - SEAT REPLACEMENT B-6202 (BID NO. 90-91- 069). 2-3 3-4 4-57 57-69 6. PERSONAL APPEARANCE: REPRESENTATIVES DISCUSSION OF MOSCOW BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT 5/7/92 FOUNDATION. 7. (A) DISCUSSION CONCERNING POLICE M 92-274 DEPLOYMENT. (Note: Deferred to first DISCUSSION - meeting in June). 5/7/92 _# (B) BRIEF DISCUSSION CONCERNING CAMILLUS HOUSE MOVE -- MAYOR SUAREZ - REQUESTS ADMINISTRATION TO PROVIDE HIM 4 WITH ALL PERTINENT INFORMATION. (C) VICE MAYOR ALONSO DEMANDS THE CITY MANAGER TO KEEP EVERY COMMISSIONER INFORMED ON ALL CITY -RELATED PROJECTS - AND PLANS (See label 8). (D) MAYOR SUAREZ PROTESTS THE FACT THAT SOME OF THE MEDIA GAIN ACCESS TO INFORMATION SOONER THAN MEMBERS OF THE CITY COMMISSION. 8. (A) GENERAL DISCUSSION CONCERNING SIX- DISCUSSION - MONTH REVIEW OF THE CITY'S FY 192 R 92-275 BUDGET. R 92-276 — ' (B) DIRECT MANAGER TO PROVIDE DETAILS 5/7/92 OF ALL EXPENDITURES CONCERNING NET y (NEIGHBORHOOD ENHANCEMENT TEAM). (C) MAYOR SUAREZ QUESTIONS CITY CLERK'S BUDGET LEVELS. (D) (Continued Discussion) DIRECT MANAGER TO INFORM EACH MEMBER OF CITY _ COMMISSION, IMMEDIATELY, OF ALL ISSUES, PROPOSALS AND/OR PLANS RELATING TO — AND/OR AFFECTING DISPOSITION, DEVELOPMENT AND/OR USE OF CITY -OWNED PROPERTY AND ANY CITY -RELATED PROJECT, AS SOON AS HE IS INFORMED OF SUCH = ISSUES -- REQUIRE MANAGER TO OBTAIN - COMMISSION APPROVAL PRIOR TO ANY ACTION —_ BEING TAKEN WITH RESPECT TO SAID 'ISSUES (See label 7). (E) AUTHORIZE COMMISSIONER DAWKINS TO HIRE AN INDIVIDUAL TO DEVELOP A CITY BUDGET NARRATIVE AND A LIST OF ALL CITY -� EMPLOYEES' SALARIES. (F) DIRECT ADMINISTRATION TO PREPARE BREAKDOWN OF EMPLOYEES EARNING OVER: ja) $50,000, (b) $75,000, AND (c) 100,000, ANNUALLY. (G) COMMISSION DISCUSSES ITS INTENT TO SET A CAP ON DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES. 69-71 72-82 82-140 CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA On the May 7th day of May, 1992, the City Commission of Miami, Florida, met at its regular meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami, Florida 1n special session. The meeting was called to order at 1:38 p.m. by Mayor Xavier Suarez with the following members of the Commission found to be present: Commissioner Victor De Yurre Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso Mayor Xavier L. Suarez ALSO PRESENT: Cesar Odio, City Manager A. Quinn Jones, III, City Attorney Matty Hirai, City Clerk Walter J. Foeman, Assistant City Clerk An invocation was delivered by Mayor Suarez. The Vice Mayor Alonso then - led those present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. PRESENTATIONS, PROCLAMATIONS & SPECIAL ITEMS. A. Proclamation to Very Special Arts Month, to salute the efforts of the Dade County Public Schools System to bring the arts into the lives of children and adults with physical and mental disabilities. B. Commendation to Officer Richard Gentry for having been selected Most Outstanding Officer for the Month of March 1992. (Officer Gentry was not present, but was forwarded the commendation.) C. Distinguished Visitors, Tatsuaki Miyauchi and Chikara Nakamura, intrepid sailors who in their around -the -world trip, stopped in our City to present the Mayor with the flag of Kagoshima, Miami's Sister City. 1 May 7, 1992 2. COMMENTS BY COMMISSIONER PLUMMER TO CLARIFY, ON THE RECORD, THE INTENT OF PRIOR MOTION 92-188, WHICH HAD APPROVED AN ALLOCATION OF $49,800 FROM TAX ANTICIPATION NOTES INTEREST TO THE LITTLE HAVANA ACTIVITIES AND NUTRITION CENTER, AS MATCHING FUNDS, TO OBTAIN STATE OF FLORIDA MONIES FOR MEDICAL SERVICES -- STIPULATE THAT SAID FUNDS WERE GIVEN NOT AS A LOAN BUT AS A CITY GRANT. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, prior to your going in to a special session I have a... it's really not a pocket item it's a clarification of an item from a previous meeting that needs clarification. If I can take care of that at this time with your permission? Mayor Suarez: Surely. I just wanted to, once again, recognize Mitch and Jeff Kominski and say that I am glad that I remembered to have the prayer and pledge of allegiance. It would have been really, really quite gauche if you had left, today, and we hadn't even done the formalities as is befitting of this Commission in all of our normal and standard ceremonies. Yes, Commissioner Plummer. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, you will recall back at federal revenue sharing, when we became aware that the State of Florida was making monies available to the little nutrition center of Little Havana, that if we made the amount of forty-nine thousand eight hundred ($49,800.00) available to them, the State would match it with 3 to 1 money. At no time was it ever the intent of mine, or I feel of this Commission, that in fact it was to be a loan. It was to be grant, and that money was to be used to match against the State of Florida because, otherwise, the money could not be forthcoming. It is merely _ a matter of clearing up, as I am told, the language and I would more at this time, Mr. Mayor, that it is the understanding of this Commission that that forty-nine thousand eight hundred ($49,800.00) that was approved by this Commission, at the time, was in fact a grant to be only used for the purposes of matching against 3 to 1 money from the State of Florida, to address the medical needs of the elderly in those centers, and I so move, sir. Vice Mayor Alonso: Second. Mayor Suarez: So moved and seconded. Any discussion? If not please call the roll. The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 92-270 —i A MOTION OF THE CITY COMMISSION CLARIFYING ITS INTENT (AS PREVIOUSLY EXPRESSED IN MOTION 92-188 OF MARCH 12, 1992) AND RESTATING THAT THE $49,800 PREVIOUSLY =? ALLOCATED TO THE LITTLE HAVANA ACTIVITIES CENTER WAS =j MEANT TO BE A CITY GRANT IN SUPPORT OF THE CENTER'S MEDICAL SERVICES PROGRAM FOR THE ELDERLY. _i t 2 May 7, 1992 AYES: Commissioner Victor Be Yurre Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr. Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso Mayor Xavier L. Suarez NOES: None. ABSENT: None. 3. DISCUSSION CONCERNING AUDIT OF KEEP DADE BEAUTIFUL. -------------------------------------------------------------•----------------- _I Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: Yes. Madam Vice Mayor. Vice Mayor Alonso: If I may, I would like to inquire about the audit of Keep Dade Beautiful that I requested, I believe, three Commissions ago. It is my understanding that the County has completed, or is in the process of completing, an audit, if so, maybe we should get a copy of the audit that Dade County did and I would like to hear from the Administration the result of the audit that we instructed them to do. Ms. Hattie Daniels: Yes, Commissioner Alonso, Hattie Daniels, Director, Department of Internal Audit and Reviews. That audit is in progress. I talked with Dade County this week. Theirs is not complete because some of the records are not available, but we anticipate having our portion within the next two weeks. Vice Mayor Alonso: OK And the last question I would like to inquire is I do believe there was fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000.00) spending to be given to the organization. Is that so? Ms. Daniels: My last talk with the auditors I believe that was correct. Yes. Vice Mayor Alonso: We gave them fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000.00) recently, did we not? Ms. Daniels: Yes. Vice -Mayor Alonso: OK Maybe it would be a good idea to hold the disbursement of these funds.until this audit is completed so we... that we have the entire Information of what's going on with that organization. Ms. Daniels: All right. I'll make sure that that's conveyed. 3 May 7, 1992 r;. Commissioner Plumper: When do their books close, Hattie? Ms. Daniels: Books are closing, I believe, in April. Commissioner Plummer: Of this year? Ms. Daniels: Of this year, yes. Commissioner Plummer: Oh, OK Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you. 4. (A) GENERAL DISCUSSION CONCERNING PROTEST BY G-T SPORTS ENTERPRISES, INC. CONCERNING ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION PROJECT PHASE 11 - SEAT REPLACEMENT B-6202 (BID NO. 90-91-069). (B) REVERSE CHIEF PROCUREMENT OFFICER'S DECISION TO REJECT PROTEST FROM G-T SPORTS ENTERPRISES, INC. Mayor Suarez: The first item of business today, I believe, is the determination on a protest and an award of a bid related to the seats at the Orange Bowl facility. Mr. Manager, I went there yesterday myself, and I presume the other Commissioners have been able to visit the site. To my surprise and misfortune, I coincided with my colleague all the way to the left. Commissioner Plummer: Misfortune? Mayor Suarez: To my surprise and fortune is what I meant to say. Commissioner Plummer: Oh, sorry I misunderstood you. Mayor Suarez: And the two of us were there only to find out that, I think only the one company had been able to install the seats to be tested. Do you have any idea what happened to the other company or companies. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Mr. Mayor, if I may, I would like say that 1 also went to the Orange Bowl this morning, and for my surprise I found that the two companies had installed, but one of the companies, the installation they did, was with our own seats. The seats that have been there for 7 or 8 years were removed and they used those seats to show us the quality of the seats. I am puzzled. In order for us, in the Commission, to be to able to use some of the discarded seats from the Orange Bowl we have to come here and get a resolution passed. These people were able to take the seats, remove them, and proceed to install the same seats, seats that they did not install before. They had nothing to do with that, and I have several questions. One, how in the world a company that is participating in a bid has the authority to remove property of the City of Miami and proceed to install the same seats to show us quality? It puzzles me because they can not show me quality if they don't present to me 4 May 7, 1992 their own product. Not the product in existence that was purchased 7 or 8 years ago. How could I possibly compare something that has been there for years. I don't know whose idea it was, I would like to know from the Administration, who gave the authorization to this company to remove property of the City of Miami and to proceed to install the seats. So actually this morning I saw the two companies, one without their product, just the ones we had before, and that they proceed to remove and install in a different location. Mayor Suarez: What sense would that make in any event? I mean if they... I wasn't aware of that but now thinking about it and being made aware of it, what sense would it make for them to remove them from one place and put them in another. Unless, I don't understand :.hat. Vice Mayor Alonso: Neither do I. Mr. Wally Lee: Mayor, Commissioners, the seats that are there are the exact same seats that are specified on this contract. Exactly the same. Vice Mayor Alonso: How do you know that, Mr. Lee, if you have not seen the product? Mr. Lee: Because the specs are identical specs. Vice Mayor Alonso: Why couldn't that company, if they are going to meet our deadline, they could not produce the product that they are supposed to install in the next few days? Why do we have to go out of our way to accept, as a sample, the same seats that have been there for 7 or 8 years. Could anyone explain to me, with some logic? Mr. Lee: Well, it seem to me that that's the proof of the pudding. They've lasted 7 or 8 years and they're in pretty good shape. We haven't had any... Vice Mayor Alonso: How do we know it's the same... what we are going to receive is exactly the same, Mr. Lee? Mr. Lee: Commissioner, because it's specified, specifically, in the City specifications. I handed you your brochure. It tells you what it 1s comprised of, what the product is, et cetera. Gives you specifications. Vice Mayor Alonso: Could you explain to me why we went into a exercise of telling this Commission we were going to go to the Orange Bowl, which I am sure none of us wanted to go there, to compare two products? We went through the exercise of going to the Orange Bowl to compare two products when, in fact, one is the one that has been there for years. I thought that the least that this company could do is to present to us the real product and to show... the two seats. One next to the other. Could anyone give me a good answer, why not? Why couldn't they produce 5, 10 seats? Why couldn't they? Mr. Lee: Commissioner, what can I tell you it's exactly... Mayor Suarez: Did they say anything to you about why they were not able to... Mr. Lee: Yes. 5 May 7, 1992 Mayor Suarez: ...what was clearly the mandate of this Commission? In a since, it's not a mandate, it's like a procedure that we established, and we .said if you want to win the bid, go over there and install some new seats so we can test. For example, Wally, I could not, in all fairness to the company that we're talking about now, I could not test the ones that were there, because I was afraid of doing what we call destructive testing. I mean we could have ruined one of the seats that was already installed, since they're the old ones, if I had known that they meant to make those very same seats available for any kind of testing we want, maybe I would have done it on the existing ones. I wanted new seats. I wanted them to... just like... plus there's a doubt raised in our minds as to whether they can deliver the new ones in time. If these 5 or 6 days that we gave them to install just a handful of them, actually, I would have been satisfied with one. All I meant was really one. You guys kind of outdid yourselves by doing a whole row of them, but I just wanted to see one. If they can't do one in 5, actually, 6 days altogether. We would have opened during a weekend. Wouldn't you have opened during the weekend if they needed to use the facility to install it? I think we would have made the Orange Bowl available on Saturday or Sunday. Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: Yes, Commissioner. Commissioner Dawkins: What was the directions from this Commission to the bidders? Mayor Suarez: I believe we have stated them... Mr. Lee: I listened to the tape 10 minutes ago before the meeting started. Commissioner Dawkins: Beg your pardon. Sir. Mr. Lee: The Mayor wanted... Commissioner Dawkins: Sir? No, no, no, I asked the Mayor. I want the Mayor because the Mayor has already said it was mandated. Mayor Suarez: Yeah, and I think we made it into a motion that was approved which would delay the determination until today pending the installation by each of the companies, still in the bidding of seats. I don't know if we specified new but we certainly meant to. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Mayor Suarez: You know, I mean, the whole idea is a new bid. Vice Mayor Alonso: I mean you cannot use the product of a different company. That was their possession that was not the product they were trying to sell to us. Mayor Suarez: They sure as heck wouldn't be able to sell me the product of what is there already because those seats are faded, the ones that are there. They have all kinds of different colors. Let me tell you we have a lot of 6 May 7, 1992 F problems on this issue and we're not getting any answers. What, if any, is the answer on why this particular company, maybe we ought to ask the company. Sir, your name and the name of your company and address, and tell us if you were confused about our instructions, or what happened here. Mr. Major Threlkeld: Yes, my name is Major Threlkeld, I live at 498 N.E. 50th Terrace. Mayor Suarez: What is the... Mr. Threlkeld: I am with Met Construction. Mayor Suarez: I sorry can you just give the name once again because I am... Mr. Threlkeld: My name is Major Threlkeld. Mayor Suarez: What's the last name? Mr. Threlkeld: Threlkeld. Mayor Suarez: OK We can call you Major then. Mr. Threlkeld: Yes, that's fine, sir. Mayor Suarez: All right, sir. Mr. Threlkeld: I was under the presumption that it was to question our ability to install the seats. It's installation. Ms. Alonso, she doesn't... it's like Mr. Lee was saying. It's the same exact seat. If you order a model number it's the same exact seat and if we don't provide you with the same exact seat, obviously, you are not going to pay us. That's the first point. Mayor Suarez: No we have another problem. If you don't provide us with the same exact seat, in a period of time which is what is prescribed to have this completed, we maybe wouldn't pay you, but that wouldn't solve our problem with the Orange Bowl Committee, and with the University of Miami. Mr. Threlkeld: You are absolutely right, Mr. Mayor, but... Mayor Suarez: So there is a timing problem here. Mr. Threlkeld: ...you enter that problem with every bidding process that's going on at the Orange Bowl right now. They... when you bid this job you realized that. That's something we know we wouldn't bid 1t if we know we couldn't finish it or get the product in time. What would be the point in bidding it, sir? Mayor Suarez: Did you have any other logistical or timing problem, or anything, in installing some new seats for us to check out? Do you, in fact, have them available here in Dade County handy? Mr. Threlkeld: We spoke to the actual manufacturer in Pennsylvania and he said he could get them down in three days. Three days. So, if you want to see... 7 May 7, 1992 Mr. Threlkeld: We could fly them in. Mayor Suarez: But I mean typically they would come by truck. Mr. Threlkeld: Oh, they would come by, yeah, semi -tractor trailer. Mayor Suarez: How many does the manufacturer have available, do you know? At this particular moment? Mr. Threlkeld: At this particular time I don't know. Enough to set up one row that you would want to see. But all I am saying... Mayor Suarez: Well see that's the thing. The one row what it has proven is that you don't have them close to here, which is a bit of a concern... Mr. Threlkeld: Both manufacturers are in Pennsylvania. Mayor Suarez: The bigger concern would be if the manufacturer somehow couldn't get them all manufactured within the time necessary to bring them down here and then install them, all thirty thousand of them. Mr. Threlkeld: Right. Mayor Suarez: But I presume that what your saying is the manufacturers are able to do that. Mr. Threlkeld: Both manufacturers are in Pennsylvania. It's been stated that... the other seat... they say they can get the seats here in time but that's not the point. Our manufacturer says that it's going to take approximately 40 days to get all materials to the site. From that point on — until the first game or until our contract is up, we can put 200 people — working there in order to get the job done. If we... we have to set up a schedule and show this to the City saying, yes, we can do it... Mayor Suarez: Well. Mr. Threlkeld: ...submit it to them to say yes we approve, you can do it in this fashion, or no, you better double your manpower. ` Mayor Suarez: But you see. You see the one of the two bidders, knowing our concern about timing, knowing our concern about testing, knowing our concern about quality, knowing that we're a little bit befuddled by the fact that theirs 1s the lowest bid of one kind of product, and yours is the lowest bid of the other, and yours is lower overall in money. But we asked them to — install at least one seat, I think I said. They did a whole row of them. They'did 1t very quickly, very efficiently, and in your case, you didn't do : that. Mr. Threlkeld: I understand what your saying. There, obviously, was a... Mayor Suarez: That puts us at a disadvantage here. 8 May 7, 1992 Mr, Threlkeld: ... misunderstanding. The City Manager, as well as I, stated that there were already fifty thousand of those same exact seats there. Now there's a difference in the specifications. Those seats are at twenty inches. They specify them at eighteen inches which is where we did install them. Mayor Suarez: OK Before we confuse everything here. If we're talking about twenty or eighteen inches and your pointing to the height from the floor, let's be careful. That's what we're talking about because there's also an issue of the length of the seats... Mr. Threlkeld: Yes, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: ...the width. Mr. Threlkeld: Width. Your talking about width. We just proved that today... Mayor Suarez: No. Mr. Threlkeld: We fit... Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait. Major, you were just talking about the height of eighteen inches, right? Mr. Threlkeld: OK Right. We conformed to that today. Mayor Suarez: OK Vice Mayor Alonso: How? How? Mr. Threlkeld: We did it. You can go out there and measure them, Ms. Alonso, they're eighteen inches. Vice Mayor Alonso: I am sorry to say you used the City of Miami property... Mr. Threlkeld: OK Vice Mayor Alonso: ...that I still have a lot of questions. Mr. Threlkeld: I am not denying that. Vice Mayor Alonso: Who gave authority to remove property of the... Mr. Lee: I did. Vice Mayor Alonso: ...City of Miami? So if anyone walks into the Orange Bowl and decides to test something, they will remove property and no one will question that, ` Mr. Lee: I authorized them to use whatever seats. Vice Mayor Alonso: You did? -=f 9 May 7, 1992 Vice Mayor Alonso: Sir, and do .you have that authority? Mr. Lee: We got a thousand seats all over the stadium and lots of... Vice Mayor Alonso: Sir, they removed... one... that's how I noticed. Mr. Lee: Yeah. Vice Mayor Alonso: I say to Max Cruz. And what happened? Why are we missing all of these seats? He said, "I don't know." Then we walk to that area and he said ... he said, "I remove them." And I say, what! Who gave you permission? Max Cruz didn't know who gave the permission. You did. Mr. Lee: I authorized them to set a line of seat right next to the other manufacturer. Vice Mayor Alonso: So that he can present to us a test with our own seats. Amazing! Mr. Lee: They are the same. Mayor Suarez: Wally, you misinterpreted our instructions. In fact, I told the gentleman from the Herald, yesterday, not knowing that this was going to happen today, you know, one of the disadvantages that Major's company has is for myself, I could not test their seats. Because I am not going to take existing seats that are there, that we need to use presumably in the future, to do any kind of damage to them. And so... Vice Mayor Alonso: Not only that. They used the ones that were already installed and removed them. Mr. Threlkeld: That could also show you that... Mayor Suarez: I don't even know what implications there are of that process, because if you take ones that are already there and you install them, you still haven't proven to us how you install new ones. I can't imagine it would be much different, but who knows. We want a... Mr. Lee: Mayor, it's exactly the same seat. Exactly the same hardware. Nothing varies. Mayor Suarez: All right, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask this question. Mayor Suarez: I sorry, Commissioner Plummer. == Commissioner Plummer: Wally, in your specs did you require that a sample be submitted? Mr. Lee: No, we did not. - s 10 May 7, 1992 Mr. Threlkeld: None of what has happened since last meeting was stated in any kind of a way in the bid documents. We were doing this to try to accommodate you all, but like I said there was a misunderstanding. We thought it was a misunderstanding of our ability to install them, not the quality of the seat because it... Like I say, again, it is the same exact setup that is out there. It is the same exact... Mayor Suarez: OK So you can tell us, and our staff supports that, that the... what is there now, which unfortunately is a day late for me, is precisely the same setup, the same installation system, and the basic same seat that you would... Commissioner Plummer: I am sorry. Go ahead and finish, I am sorry. That's not true of statement, OK You were... Wally wasn't there, Max way and the Mayor was there. I noticed of the seats that had been put in previously, and I asked what was the difference where one was orange in color and the other was a reddish, whatever you want to call it. It was a very definite different color, and your telling me that these are the same seats that were being proffered. I said well why... Max you were there. Why was there a difference? And so there is a difference and I am told by Max that it was a batch. Is that what you said? Mr. Max Cruz: Yes, sir. Max Cruz from the Orange Bowl. Commissioner Plummer: So there is... excuse me Max just let me finish then I would ask you to address the subject. There was definitely a difference in just those that were there. Now, if in fact, batch means just a change in color, I don't know. But I had to take it because we did not have a dissected seat as we had from the other company, but there was a definite difference between the two seats that were there presently, so Max you can maybe address that issue. Mr. Cruz: Yes, sir. The seats that are presently at the Orange Bowl were not bought all at once. We had as we were getting TDC (Tourism Development Council) money we got the first year a lot of seats. The next year when we went on we got another ones. So every time that a batch was made there could have been a little bit of slight color that deteriorated, I guess, with the sun or soon after they were installed the color changed. That's why the latest one which 1s the more... the orange was the one we specified has to be orange and that's why the color is still holding, but because of the different batch, a different time that they were made, that's why the color changed a little bit. -�' Commissioner Plummer: Max have your personally... have you personally dissected any of the old seats? In other words, we know what you tell us that some of them have been there for 7 and 8 years, and we know from what Wally j sent to me, that the warranty on both are three years, OK What has been your experience as to the seats that are there? Have you had a problem with them? Have you had any of them breaking or any of that kind of a problem? And my final question would be, have you ever dissected one of them? Cut it in half a to see what it's made of and is there a consistency there or not? Mr. Cruz: Yes, Commissioner. The first question. We have had no problem, whatsoever, with the seats that are at the Orange Bowl. As a matter of fact, ` 11 May 7, 1992 iF i' they are so strong that they... the only way you can break it is getting a -_ saw and saw them in half. You can not break 1t with a hammer. You can not cut it with a machete or knife, and they are very strong. We have never had to replace one except when we were doing welding upstairs, that, you know, welding get in and we get the black spots on the seat then we would have to replace it. Construction has been having replace them in the past. One, two or three whenever they get damaged. Now the other, yes we have cut them. And E it's made of a very strong type of plastic. You can not even set them on fire. I have no idea what kind of material they are, but they are a very strong type of material. = Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: Yes, Commissioner Dawkins. Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Manager, through you to Mr. Lee. There was a difference in the bid, considerably. Is that correct sir? Mr. Lee: Ninety-six thousand dollars ($96,000.00), Commissioner. Commissioner Dawkins: OK Now, what part of the Orange Bowl's structure, for the lack of a better word, was used when these, when this other company installed its sample? Because I think I heard it said, up here, that part of the City of Miami's equipment or structure was used. Mr. Lee: The sampled seats that were installed this week, Commissioner? Is that what your referring to? Mayor Suarez: Where were they taken from? Commissioner Dawkins: And what was taken with it? Mr. Lee: They were installed in Section B. Commissioner Dawkins: No where were they taken, OK, what I am trying to say is... Vice Mayor Alonso: From another section. Commissioner Dawkins: ...if did... are they using... how can I know that they are using all new materials, such as, and I am just guessing because I don't - know what I am talking about, OK That's number one, OK But the seat has to sit on something, OK Mr. Lee: Yes, sir. Commissioner Dawkins: And once it sits on something, it has to be secured with something. Mayor Suarez: Oh, yeah. That structure underneath the seat. That's interesting. That's an interesting question. Commissioner Dawkins: Where did that... 12 May 1, 1992 3 r AN Mr. Lee: It the bracket. Connissioner Dawkins: come from? Mr. Lee: From... it's with the seat where it was. Mayor Suarez: So that wasn't new either? = Mr. Lee: No. No it was not. In fact the bracket we are going to use for all thirty thousand seats, which ever we pick, it's going to be the same one that's attached there at the Orange Bowl which we are removing and so... Commissioner Dawkins: OK Hold it there now. Now, the bracket that the new company, I am sorry, that the ninety-six thousand dollar ($96,000.00) bid was, is that for a new frame? Mr. Lee: Yes. Commissioner Dawkins: All right. So therefore you didn't... we're not comparing apples with oranges? Mayor Suarez: You didn't see this... you didn't see this on tape but when you were saying yes, they were saying no. Commissioner Dawkins: OK Mayor Suarez: So, obviously,... Commissioner Dawkins: That ain't nothing unusual. That's not unusual. Mr. Lee: No. The specifi... Commissioner Dawkins: That's not unusual. Mayor Suarez: Make sure you understand the question before you answer it one way, and your support staff there answers it a totally different way, back there. I think he means the brackets that was used by G-T, or whatever it is. Were they brand new brackets or were they also taken from another part of the stadium? Mr. Lee: No they brought their own. Mayor Suarez: Brand new brackets? Mr. Leer Yes. Mr. Juan Ordonez: No. Excuse me... Mayor Suarez: They looked brand new to me. They certainly looked like... Mr. Ordonez: The two of them used the same bracket that we have existing at the stadium. And the two of them are going to use to install the new seats the existing brackets at the stadium. - 13 May 7, 1992 r )7r1 1 Mayor Suarez: But they're new brackets that we have there? Mr. Ordonez: No, no, no. The existing bracket. Mayor Suarez: They looked brand new to me. Mr. Ordonez: The very same one that holds the flat benches. Mayor Suarez: All right. Do you have anything to contradict that, Mr. ` Garcia -Toledo? I Mr. Rafael Garcia -Toledo: Rafael Garcia -Toledo, G-T Sports. I think what = Commissioner Dawkins is asking... �j Mayor Suarez: No, answer that question, Ralph. n� Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Over there, OK Mayor Suarez: Are those brackets that you used to install you seats... where did those brackets come from? Mr. Garcia -Toledo: The existing new rail system that we put in. The rail - system that... _ Mr. Ordonez: No, it's brackets. Mayor Suarez: Now we're calling it a rail system. We went from structure to... - Mr. Garcia -Toledo: ...and the attachment brackets, all that, is brand new. # Attachment bracket, the rail system... -� Mayor Suarez: They sure look brand new to me. Vice Mayor Alonso: They look new to me too. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Of course it's new. I brought it down. I had it shipped American Airlines, I should know. - Mayor Suarez: Either that or you cleaned the hell out of them and made them... Mr. Ga"rcia-Toledo: OK Mayor Suarez: ...look shiny and painted them with you know, aluminum... Vice Mayor Alonso: They look new. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Brand spanking new. Now, MET Construction what they've gotten is they've gone the old rail system. The old mounting bracket from the ©range Bowl. They actually ripped it off and put it on right next to ours. Mayor Suarez: Yeah, we have problems with that as we have stated. OK — 14 May 7, 1992 Mr. Garcia -Toledo: OK Mr. Max Cruz: Mayor, let me get the record straight. Both companies which ever will use existing old bracket. Now, both companies... Mayor Suarez: But for the test... for the test for what we saw there those brackets looked brand new. Ms. Luisa Garcia -Toledo: I don't think that was the question. Mr. Cruz: Right. No they are brackets and there attachments to bracket. The attachment who hold the railing and the seats to the brackets. They use brand new. MET Construction use the old exiting one from the other seats. Mayor Suarez: OK Fine, fine. We got our answer. Mr. Cruz: But both companies... Mayor Suarez: We got a lot of other questions. So don't get carried away with that answer, we got a lot of other questions. Mr. Cruz: But I need to straighten out. Both companies will have to use the new attachment because it's no more. They will have to use new attachment... Mayor Suarez: I presume that that means that neither company is providing that. That that's being provided by others. Or is being provided by them? Mr. Cruz: Each company will have to provide their own. Mayor Suarez: But both have to be brand new. For the entire thirty thousand seat mounting operation. Mr. Cruz: That's correct, sir. Vice Mayor Alonso: They will be using new brackets? Mr. Cruz: Attachment. No. The bracket will be the same, old ones. Vice Mayor Alonso: And the brackets will fit either company. Mr. Cruz: Either company. Mayor Suarez: All right. Vice.Mayor Alonso: And the attachment will have to be new so they are... the bid is on equal terms. No one is receiving a benefit. Mr. Cruz: That's correct. Commissioner Dawkins: Where's the difference... Max, where does the difference in the height come in now? If your going to use the same bracket, and I. hear you say one is sixteen inches high, one 1s eighteen inches high, one is twenty inches high. 15 May 7, 1992 i Mayor Suarez: That's a fair question. Why if you using the same mounting _ ! system, rails, brackets, attachments, all that stuff that you use different terminology for, to us is one thing, the seats go on top of it. Why... how will it change the height from the old system to the new one? _ Mr. Cruz: OK The old system that we had there had a twenty inch high seat because the bracket, the attachment are bigger. What MET did they cut the attachment down to adjust to the eighteen inch, which can be done. It has been done in some the latest seats that we, ourselves, installed there. They both have to come to the standard which is eighteen inch, regardless who... Mayor Suarez: Eighteen inch height? Mr. Cruz: Nigh. Mayor Suarez: OK Keep repeating that please. All right. Now, what about their installation? Does their installation have to do any of that cutting? Mr. Threlkeld: No, we don't. Mayor Suarez: To meet the eighteen inch height requirement. Mr. Cruz: They have provided their's... theirs comes the same height. Prepare for the eighteen inch. Vice Mayor Alonso: Will it affect the strength of the seat in any way? - because once we have tested for 7 and 8 years it was twenty. Now when they cut to put it at the height that is more appropriate for the people using the stadium, will it mean that it will affect the quality in any way? Mr. Cruz: No, ma'am. Vice Mayor Alonso: It will not. Mr. Cruz: They will not affect. The bracket they have to be custom made. Each one will have to custom make their brackets. Vice Mayor Alonso: So there is no cutting. It's something that it will have to be... meaning it will take them longer? Will affect the time of delivery because they didn't know this before. Mr. Cruz: No. They can be... Vice Mayor Alonso: Are you sure? Can they answer that question on the record? Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Well, for example, on G-T Sports, this is Rafael Garcia - Toledo again. We don't have any cutting to do. Our existing rail and attachments like Mr. Cruz is saying, fits directly over the existing Miami Orange Bowl bracket that they will be providing. The existing bracket that's out there now does not fit MET Constructions system. They will have to cut it, torch it off, OK Needless to say, these are galvanized hot tipped brackets. Once you torch them off you can't galvanize them again. You have to cold galvanize them. You can not hot dip them galvanize and that's the problem they are going to be facing also. 16 May 7, 1992 a Commissioner Dawkins: OK Mr. Mayor, may I take a break here for a second? Mayor Suarez: Yes, sir. Commissioner Dawkins: To the two young gentlemen who are here, Let me try to see if I can cut through this for you, OK Commissioner Plummer: Not for them, for us. Commissioner Dawkins: OK We have a situation where the City of Miami asked -1 that some seats be installed in the Orange Bowl, OK So we put out a bid. The f� job is worth eight hundred thousand dollars ($800,000.00), close to a million dollars. So, therefore, you see these two companies, who want the eight _i hundred thousand dollars ($800,000.00), trying to show us where their product -� is better than the other. Now, and there is a ninety-six thousand dollar ($96,000.00) difference between the two companies. So when you... now... you all going to understand what we did no more than I am doing, OK But I just thought I would try to help ;you. -' Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah. Two things, one, for the record, when I had the —� = i opportunity to check the two companies, G-T and MET. I noticed that it was the company MET the existing, our seats, it's not in a straight line. That I was able to see. It's not. It's definitely... it's not in a straight line. The reason, I don't know. I am not an expert. I have no idea, but to the — eye, was definitely, it was not straight line so I was able to see that it, -� for whatever reason, it's not a straight line. Whether it will be uncomfortable for the people who sit in the middle I don't know exactly. I tried the seats that we have in the Orange Bowl today are not very comfortable. You have to be built in a certain way, and if your not, then tough luck. It's not comfortable. And also I want to say that the other = problem that I see 1s the difference in price and maybe I would like to see if we could, perhaps, address the question of price with the company and maybe if we hear something better I will be ready to make a motion. Mr. Cruz: Commissioner... Commissioner Plummer: Can I inquire, Mr. Mayor? Mayor Suarez: Yes, and I have some... Commissioner -Plummer: And let me... Mayor Suarez: Max, don't be so eager to answer questions that have not been asked. Limit yourselves, please, to answering questions that are asked. That's what we need. We don't need philosophizing. We got enough philosophers up here. Yes, Commissioner Plummer. _ Commissioner Plummer: You can go back to the Orange Bowl and beat your head against the wall, it feels good. Let me use bid A, because he's here. J� - Commissioner Dawkins: Is there a motion behind that? Ma 7 1992 17 y r Commissioner Plummer: such? Mayor Suarez: Yes, sir. Nape. I am asking a question. Am I entitled to do Commissioner Plummer: Bid A is all the same chair. Is that correct? Mr. Lee: That is correct. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: OK Wally, you know, I had a big problem before about painting of the Orange Bowl. Remember that? Mr. Lee: Yes, sir, very clearly. Commissioner Plummer: All the same paint. All the same company doing the painting. Remember? Mr. Lee: Yes, sir. Very clearly. Commissioner Plummer: Would you try to explain to me why the same company in six, in six different bids, same seat, same company, same specs, that there's two hundred and ninety-five thousand dollars ($295,000.00) difference between the bidders. Now I can understand on installation, yes. Understand that. How can the same company, who is the sole Source of A, if I am not mistaken, is providing the same chair for the same specs, the difference between the high bid and the low bid, unless my mathematics is wrong, is two hundred and ninety-five thousand dollars ($295,000.00) for the seat alone. Has nothing to do with installation or anything else. I am smelling something I don't like. You know this is not the first time, Wally, it's happened. OK And I am going to ask you to look into and get back to this Commission, not just to me, how In the hell this happens. Mr. Lee: Commissioner. Commissioner Plummer: Obviously all of these bidders know that this chair is the chair called for in the specs, and they are all bidding on the same chair, and. knowing that these numbers are going to be public of two hundred and ninety-five thousand dollars ($295,000.00) difference in just the cost of merchandise. I'll tell you something, something is radically wrong. I can't understand that. Now I am going... while your talking I am going to do chair 8, because that was all by the same manufacturer, is that correct? Mr. Leer That is correct. Commissioner Plummer: OK So I just... that was the first one I did but I want to:do 8-to see... so you go ahead, you talk, and I am going... Mr. Lee: Well, I can't answer for the contractors. I think... there's no way I,,could.address that question. Commissioner Plummer: Well does it make any sense to you? 18 May 7, 1992 F Mr. Lee: It depends on what mark ups they put in. Maybe they included the storage costs. It depends on what the contractor puts in there. Commissioner Plummer: Wally. Mr. Lee: We have no control over that. Commissioner Plummer: Wally. I understand you have no control. Mr. Lee: Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: Was there any other company who could provide seat A? Mr. Lee: No, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Is there any other company that could h.-vt; ;rnvided seat B? Mr. Lee: No, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Then without question it was sole source. Mr. Lee: That's the reason we got two. Commissioner Plummer: Based on the specs it's sole source. OK Now if that's the case from cae company, and one company alone, I am assuming that that company is selling to everybody at the same price. I am assuming that, assuming that. Yet there's two hundred and ninety-five thousand dollars ($295,000.00) difference. It makes ninety-six thousand dollars ($96,000.00) difference look insignificant. And there's got to be an answer, Wally. There's go to be an answer. Mr. Lee: Well, you know I'll bring this out now. At the prebid conference where all these questions about elevation, connection and so on, if any of the bidders wants to clarify something, that's where it is all brought out. We have our engineers and architects there to answer any question anywhere, where the contractor is confused, that is the point and time to bring up your objections. During the prebid conference, for example, the company that manufactures the seats in alternate A said he was not going to quote any other contractor except G-T Sports. Commissioner Plummer: But that's his right to do such. Mr. Lee: No, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Oh it is not? Vice Mayor Alonso: Why not? = Mr.:Lee It's against the law. And I called that supplier of seats after the meeting, I said, you better check with your Law Department because you are going to get ,into trouble. And apparently he talked to his Law Department, saw"the logic of this, and then quoted the contract. 19 May 79 1992 Commissioner Plummer: OK Commissioner Dawkins: Madam Vice Mayor. Commissioner Plummer: Just let me just add this to the record so I am fair with everybody, Miller. What I show the difference in the same company, the same specs, the same everything in bid B, is nine to one thousand dollars ($91,000.00) difference 1n the five bids because there was not six. Just for the record. Commissioner Dawkins: Madam Vice Mayor. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Commissioner Dawkins. Commissioner Dawkins: You know I could... I could understand this 1f we didn't do this constantly. Now, at the next Commission Meeting, we're going to be asked to approve the bid of, the award of money for summer feeding. OK Commissioner Plummer: For what? ""omnissioner Dawkins: Summer feeding. The summer feeding program. OK Commissioner Plummer: Oh, oh the program. The food program. Vice Mayor Alonso: Food. Commissioner Dawkins: Now, we know that it's "X" dollars for the food. Every bidder understands that it's "X" dollars for the food, and the bids that come in come in as J.L. said, lower, and lower, and lower. They don't come in saying I am going to spend a hundred dollars ($100.00) for bread and five dollars ($5.00) for meat, and the other one saying I am going to spend a hundred dollars ($100.00) for the meat and five dollars ($5.00) for the bread. They all are consistent. Now all J. L. is asking is, if you are bidding on a loaf of bread and you specify that you want french bread, how can it be a hundred thousand dollars ($100,000.00) difference in the amount of bread? Commissioner Plummer: Two ninety-five. Commissioner Dawkins: Ah, ha. For the same loaf of bread. For the same number of loaves of bread. Mr. Odio: They want to make a higher profit is one explanation. Commissioner Dawkins: Well then. Mr. Odio: I am not talking about that. Commissioner Dawkins: But you see, Mr. Manager,... Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but you know... Commissioner Dawkins: ...what we're saying to you is your staff should have picked that up. 20 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: See what doesn't make sense to me... Commissioner Dawkins: That's all he's saying, Mr. Manager. Mr. Odio: Well. Commissioner Dawkins: Your staff should have picked up that they wanted a bigger profit and turned it down. Commissioner Plummer: What doesn't make sense, Cesar, to me is the fact that all of these bidders, obviously, had to be aware that if they're all bidding on the same chair for the same company that this 1s going to be public record. The difference has got to be in the installation cost is what I would have thought, that the real bidding procedure would be over. Mr. Odio: Mr. Plummer. Commissioner Plummer: Yes, sir. Mr. Odio: I told you for years I sold concrete pipes and we went for bids in Tallahassee. You had 10 contractors to lay 1,000 foot of 18" pipe. The normal procedure is the contractors that you feel are going to get the job, you can give them a discount on the pipe. The other ones you give them list price. That's traditional. Am I wrong Wally? Mr. Lee: That is correct. Mr. Odio: That is traditional in the industry. You go in with the company at a lower price that you think is going to get the job for you. Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Lee you said that during the pre -bid conference, how • • • a• _ _._-i_ _ A - - L- L- Ti. Lw••1.1 L.— &L•w A -1 e/•••e e4#%m 4lmnv%n 4-h A% companies. You made reference to that, did ,you not? Mr. Lee: No, what I was trying to point out, Commissioner, during the pre -bid conference, if there's any doubt as to what was on the drawings, the specifications and so on, that's where the opportunity is given to all the - prospective bidders. =i Vice Mayor Alonso: You had specifications of how you want these seats - installed. Mr. Lee: Yes, Commissioner. Vice Mayor Alonso: How high do we want it? Twenty, eighteen, seventeen, how do we want it? Mr. Lee: 'We want them eighteen inches, Commissioner. Vice Mayor Alonso: Eighteen? Mr. Lee: Yes, ma'am. Vice Mayor Alonso: That's how we want them. Different from what we have now. 21 May 7, 1992 Mr. Lee: That's correct. Vice Mayor Alonso: Now it's at twenty. Mr. Lee: Twenty some, in some areas, max nineteen, yes. Vice Mayor Alonso: OK And some people have complained that it's not the best. — Mr. Lee: That's correct. Some claim they were high. That twenty was to high. Vice Mayor Alonso: Knowing that isn't... do we have --ome sort of a conflict with one of the products that will have to be cut 1n order to fit? I see a no _ here. Would you tell me what... Mr. Cruz: To clarify the statement that was made earlier. They do not have to cut the bracket. They have to make their attachment custom made to fit to the eighteen. It has to be different than the bracket they are using now for the one that has twenty and nineteen. It's the only thing they have to do is a different attachment. The brackets remain the same. We will not allow the bracket to be cut. Vice Mayor Alonso: All right. Mr. Cruz: Period. Vice Mayor Alonso: So what you are telling me they will have to build specific bracket to fit the chairs. Mr. Cruz: Correct. Vice Mayor Alonso: I would like to hear the Company MET, on the record, to tell me that they will be able to build this bracket on time, because this is different from what you usually do. Is that correct? Mr. Threlkeld: Ms. Alonso, the bracket we don't custom make it. The manufacturer custom makes it. They make it. Ship to us and we put it on. Vice Mayor Alonso: That's right. Do they have on stock, it is your knowledge, that they have the eighteen... Mr. Threlkeld: Yes, ma'am. Vice Mayor Alonso: ...rather than the twenty that has been used before. Mr. Threlkeld: Yes, ma'am. Vice Mayor Alonso: You have checked this and it is available. Mr. Threkeld: Yes. Vice Mayor Alonso: OK Thank you. Any other questions? 22 May 7, 1992 Mrs. Luisa Garcia -Toledo: Vice Mayor Alonso I would like to say that G-T -_ Sports Enterprises was asked to perform a test. - Vice Mayor Alonso: Would you state your name. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Luisa Garcia -Toledo, Owner of G-T Sports Enterprises, and we were asked to perform a test on our chairs. That we have gone to considerable expense and trouble to do this, but that we have actually done it to a "T." We have performed what you asked us to do, and it seem to me that there should be a clear perception that, as we have said before, that the other company can not deliver the chairs on time. And I think that should be clear here because they could not get the chairs to perform this test. Vice Mayor Alonso: OK Thank you. I have one question for the City Manager. Mr. City Manager, the bid was for A and B. I understand that you are saying that the quality of these two products are, in your opinion, of the kind of standard that we would like to see at the Orange Bowl. Either A or B, in your opinion, is an excellent quality. Do you believe that A or B is a better quality? Mr. Odio: No. Vice Mayor Alonso: You think that they are equal. Mr. Odio: I believe that they... I am not an expert on that, but I think either one would do the same perform, yeah. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, but in your opinion, A or B, either one is better than the other? Mr. Odio: No. Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. ... Thank you. Mr. Lee do you... could you respond the same question. Mr. Lee: I would answer the same way, Commissioner. Vice Mayor Alonso: You believe there is no difference in the product? Mr. Lee: That's correct. Vice Mayor Alonso: And Max Cruz would you answer also that question for me. Mr. Cruz: I believe, in quality, they both the same. Although we have not tested their product, we had a seat there for about two years, and it's been holding pretty good so I can assume that both product are outstanding. Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. So we actually have two products and we have a difference in price. To the eye, to the people who have no experience, counting myself, I see two products, one looks to me a little bit better. I am going to refer to the green that we have the first time. It was a little bit better. I believe it's the product of G-T. That's the name of the company, right? 23 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: That was seat A. Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. That's seat A. I believe that the quality is better than the other seat, but I am not an expert so to the eye I am saying. We see a difference in price. Ninety... Commissioner Plummer: Six. Vice Mayor Alonso: ...six thousand. Can we perhaps, and if this is legal, Mr. City Attorney, could we ask the company to perhaps make a reduction in price. Is this legal that we take this into account, and perhaps if we see a cut in price, getting a product that looks better there. Is this legal? Can we do this? A. Quinn Jones, Esq.: Well, the way you propose it is... Vice Mayor Alonso: I mean voluntarily of course. Mr. Jones: The way you propose it, it is. Because it is counter to the whole bidding procedure that's outlined in the Florida Statutes and also in our Code. Certainly if this company is selected as the successful bidder, and if that company wants to proffer, voluntarily, a reduction in the contract price, that's a different story. But in terms of negotiating anything other than what they've bid in their bid documents would be improper at this point and time. Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Thank you. Commissioner De Yurre: Let me ask a question on that point. I would agree with you were both parties bidding on the same item, but aren't we talking about two separate bids that went out on two separate products, and the two individuals are the lowest bidder in each category, therefore, if you are dealing with the lowest bidder in one category you can deal with him on the record to lower his price further because it has no impact on the other bidders, within that same category. Mr. Jones: No, but what you are doing still... what you still doing is negotiating which is counter to what the whole purpose of competitive bidding Is about. Commissioner De Yurre: Well, it's competitive but if you can get the lower one lower there's no competition anyway with the other people that bid on the same category. Mr. Jones: Yeah. I mean... Commissioner De Yurre: Treat it look at it... Mr. Jones: I think I've stated to you the proper way to do it without any repercussions coming back to haunt us, but I think in the context of what you are talking about it would be totally improper. Vice Mayor Alonso: Even though they are two different bids. 24 May 79 1992 i Mr. Jones: I am sorry Commissioner? Vice Mayor Alonso: Even though they are two different bids. Mr. Jones: Even though they are two different bids. Commissioner Plummer: Well, I think what the City Attorney is stating 1s tha t Mr. Kay: Based on price, quality of material and seat comfort. Commissioner Plummer: Seat comfort is a broad term. And I mean, you know, that's... you are using adjectives there that could be interpreted by all individuals differently. Mr. Kay: But I think what maybe the City Attorney is saying is that I think you have to award a bid first and then negotiate. Commissioner Plummer: I think what we're saying, just for the record, 1s if we don't hear something volunteered we know which one is going to get more comfortable. Mayor Suarez: That's a fair statement. - Mr. Garcia -Toledo: It I may state. I am Rafael Garcia -Toledo again with G-T Sports. Mayor Suarez: And Major you wanted to clarify on a point that perhaps I missed but your certainly entitled to... 25 May 7, 1992 Mr. Garcia -Toledo: On this point about price and everything. We knew our price was going to be affected when our small business, G-T Sports, had to double bond this job. We asked the City if we could possibly put our manufacturer's bond, which would more than protect the City in this case, and they did not allow us to do this. And we brought it before the... Mr. Odio: I am sorry. I am sorry. I have to stop you at that point. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: I beg your pardon? Mr. Odio: I have to stop you from saying that because you met with... Mayor Suarez: Mr. Manager, why don't you let him complete the sentence and then... Mr. Odio: OK. Mayor Suarez: ... go ahead... Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Yes. If I may continue. At the pre -bid meeting, we were requested to ask this so it could be on the public record. This pre -bid meeting took place in the Orange Bowl, and Mr. Wally Lee was present. We asked him if our manufacturer's bond, if we could put our manufacturer's bond on it. He brought a prepared statement, and stated that no, we could not. As G-T Sports, we would have to put our own bond. OK. Fine. We then had an - which I'm sure which is the Manager's going to point to - we then had a meeting with the Manager on... Mayor Suarez: Well, more worrisome to you than the Manager will be the fact that what is being discussed here is the possibility that we could end up with a ?owe; bid price, and we're... 4r. Garcia -Toledo: Yes. Mayor Suarez: ... looking at the legalities of that, and for you to tell us the whole ztory, unless... Mr. Garcia -Toledo: OK. All right. I... Understood. We double bonded our job. Vice Mayor Alonso: Maybe what he's trying to get to is that double bonding costs money. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Absolutely. Vice Mayor Alonso: Is that it? Mr. Garcia -Toledo: We doubled bonded our job because we could never get from the City a written clarification stating that, yes, we could put our manufacturer's bond. This cost us dearly, and needless to say, raised our contract price. Mayor Suarez: OK. What... 26 May 7, 1992 Vice Mayor Alonso: So you have double bond? Mr. Garcia -Toledo: If we could... Yes. If we could put our manufacture... Vice Mayor Alonso: You are the only company? Mr. Garcia -Toledo: I beg your pardon? Vice Mayor Alonso: They were not asked to have double bond? Mr. Garcia -Toledo: MET Construction seems to be large enough so they can put their own bond. We, unfortunately, are not. If we are able to put our manufacturer's bond, our price will drop. Mayor Suarez: Mr. Manager, you wanted to answer that particular point. Mr. Odio: Yes. We had a meeting in my office. I called the Law Department, and I told them that the manufacturer's bond would be perfectly all right. Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: Luisa Garcia -Toledo. Mr. Odio: That they could... Mayor Suarez: Well, that may be a subject of further negotiations, then. Commissioner Plummer: Wait, wait, wait. Whoa, whoa. Because I was directly involved in this. Mr. Odio: I talked to the City Attorney from my office with them sitting in my office... Commissioner Plummer: And you told them it would be all right? Mr. Odio: Yes, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Who... You say Mr. Lee came with a prepared statement, which I assume was a prepared statement to the contrary. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Exactly. Commissioner Plummer: Now, wait a minute. Where is the discrepancy? And let me, for the record,... Mr. Odio: Let me tell you what happened. Commissioner Plummer: The reason Mr. Lee came with a prepared statement was the request of Mr. Toledo to me asking was there a possibility... Mr. Odio: May I... Commissioner Plummer: ... that the Manager... Let me finish,... Mr. Odio: OK. 27 May 7, 1992 u Commissioner Plummer: ... Mr. Manager. ... that there was a possibility that the manufacturer's bond could be used, and that they would not give an answer until the pre -bid conference. So I went to Mr. Lee at Grapeland Heights, and I said, "Mr. Lee, here is a question that has been asked. I can't answer that. Would you please be prepared to answer that," and as such, without my knowledge, he must have prepared the answer to be prepared to answer the question raised by you. Mr. Odio: OK. That happened during the pre -bid conference weeks before. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: No, sir. The same day as your... Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: No. The same day. In the morning. Mr. Odio: Or the... Whatever. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: April 21st. My birthday. I remember i- very well. Mr. Odio: And they met with me. At that moment I said, "I don't understand why the City, who is trying to do more contracts with minorities, we would do this thing." Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Neither do we. Mr. Odio: I called the Law Department there and then, and Quinn says, "go ahead and tell them they can use the manufacturer's bond." I told you go away and bid like that, and don't worry about it. I'll be responsible if something happens. And that should have been sufficient. Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: May I? Luisa Garcia -Toledo, owner G-T Sports Enterprises. Of course I was at that conference and we were very grateful for you to obtain, on the speaker we were listening, the opinion from the Legal Department that we could do it if we bring it up front. It was great with us. We asked for to have it in writing. We never got it. We even brought a letter here saying that we were... Excuse me. I would like to finish. A letter saying that we were at that meeting and everything that was said, and it was delivered to Mr. Lee, I believe, and he refused to sign that he had received that notification. We went to the bid... Mayor Suarez: Well, we don't typically sign that we have received things. Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: OK. Mayor Suarez: Our legal life is complicated enough without signing that we have received things. Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: I understand. Fair. Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor. Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: But we never received in writing what we asked, to be = sure, because we had just two days to go the bid. We went through blood, sweat and tears, as a small company, minority owned, to get a bond. We did, and we went to the final bidding process. When we got there, we also found 28 May 7, 1992 out that some other companies that were bidding were aware that we were going to use our manufacturer's bond, which I find it highly unethical. But, we got the bond finally, otherwise we would have stopped from bidding at all on this project. Mayor Suarez: OK. Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: So that added a great deal of expenses to our price. Mayor Suarez: Well, when you get to the issue of ethics on this, be ver careful because when you are as pro -active as you and your team have been, yo have to assume that a lot of information is going to be running around. S don't, you know, don't take advantage of the system of having access to thi Commission and to our staff and everybody, and at the same time, imply tha there is some lack of ethics here. That information gets around. Thank Go In the case of my office... Vice Mayor Alonso: confused... Mayor Suarez: Yes. Mr. Mayor, I'd like to be clear, because I'm a little bi Vice Mayor Alonso: ... at the explanation given. the City Manager said yes. Mayor Suarez: Verbally... 3 F Y - =- u o s t d t My understanding is that Vice Mayor Alonso: He checked with the City Attorney, and the answer was also yes, it's appropriate they can go ahead. But the information they received from Mr. Lee was contrary? Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Could not. Vice Mayor Alonso: He said he told them, "No, you cannot." Mr. Odio: That was... Vice Mayor Alonso: Therefore, they were forced to get the bond. Mr. Odio: No. Mayor Suarez: That was a written document that came... Mr. Odio: That is not the... Vice Mayor Alonso: No? Mr. Odio: That's not the case. Vice Mayor Alonso: What was your original statement? Mr. Lee: That was at the pre -bid conference. Vice Mayor Alonso: That's right. 29 May 7, 1992 1 izmmr Mr. Lee: I read the ordinance. Vice Mayor Alonso: What did you read in that statement? Mr. Lee: I read the ordinance. Vice Mayor Alonso: You told them yes, you can, or you can't? - Mr. Lee: I said the successful bidder has to provide a performance bond. My interpretation of a successful bidder is whoever is the contractor with the lowest price. They disagreed with that. At that point in time, they went to Mr. Odio, and that's when they got a different interpretation. Mr. Odio: And I told them that they could use the manufacturer's performance bond. You called me the next day, after you heard what the City Attorney said. I talked to you twice, I think, and my secretary three times, and we told you every time go ahead and use your manufacturer's performance bond. Mayor Suarez: Were you aware that Mr. Lee had said something... Mr. Odio: Before? Yeah. Yes. I overruled. Mayor Suarez: Did you not think that at that point, you ought to get the City Attorney's advice and put in writing... Vice Mayor Alonso: That's right. Mr. Odio: Well, tell him why... Mayor Suarez: ... or otherwise be absolutely sure that what you were doing was a hundred percent... Vice Mayor Alonso: To guarantee them the... Mr. Odio: Well, let the City Attorney explain why it was not placed in writing. Mr. Jones: Yeah, let me explain. Mayor Suarez: Well, the City Attorney might feel that you should have never contradicted what was previously said, and that certainly shouldn't be put in writing, but I can't imagine that if you're going to be... Take... The City's position is going to be one way, and that contradicts the prior, the Assistant City Manager says the other, I can't imagine the City Attorney would say that somehow all of that shouldn't have been clarified before the bidding process. But try it if you want, Mr. City Attorney. Mr. Jones: I don't want to touch that,... Mayor Suarez: It sounds like a mine field to me. Folks, we've got... I'm sorry. We've got other questions. 30 May 7, 1992 =y 0 Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah, well they were going to address... I guess they went through the bond to let us know that they had a lot of expense, but it'll be nice if we can hear something else. Mayor Suarez: Just out of curiosity, how much are we talking about for that expenditure? Mr. Garcia -Toledo: We're talking over twenty thousand dollars. Mayor Suarez: OK. Mr. Threlkeld: Just one more point I'd like to bring up. They stated in their bid, they listed no subcontractors. They stated in their letter that — they were going to use the installer out of Texas, who I do not believe has a Dade County certificate of competency license. Mayor Suarez: OK. As long as you're on the mike, why don't you stay there. I've got some questions. Sir, I sat on the existing seats that are there. What's a good way to refer to those. Commissioner Plummer: "A" and "B." Mr. Lee: "B." Mayor Suarez: That's "B." I sat on those. I presume yours are going to very similar to those. In fact, identical. Mr. Threlkeld: Exactly. Mayor Suarez: All right. I didn't feel very comfortable. The two... I'm not... I don't have the world's largest gluteus maximus. I probably don't have the world's smallest, either. I felt constrained by the two edges. Commissioner Plummer: I knew some day it was going to come to this. Mayor Suarez: Who has the biggest derriere? I felt constrained by... Commissioner Plummer: You're right. Mayor Suarez: ... the two corrugations, the two... Mr. Threlkeld: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: I mean, 1t feels narrow. Mr. Threlkeld: OK. We didn't design the seat. We are just the ones who are using this manufacturer. We were low bid... Mayor Suarez: Do you have it? Mr. Threlkeld: ... on that item. I have no... Mayor Suarez: OK. Do you have idea, from the top of the ridges on both sides, how many inches that is? No? On your seat. OK. 31 May 7, 1992 Mr. Threlkeld: I probably would... You could look in the brochure Mr. Lee has and be able to tell. Mayor Suarez: OK. Maybe it's in the design. Maybe you can see from the markings. Mr. Threlkeld: It's just designed... They designed it that way. It was chosen four years ago, four years prior to that. I can't tell you why they designed it that way. Mayor Suarez: OK. Next question. We have... Mr. Threlkeld: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: Yes. Mr. Threlkeld: One thing thing that... I hate playing this... Personally, I don't like knocking them, they knock me. I don't like to do it, but since it's being done. This seat, I hear if it cracks, the top layer - and the bottom layer does not crack - the entire seat gets filled with water. Mayor Suarez: That was going to be... Mr. Threlkeld: Then... Mayor Suarez: that was going to be my last line of questioning. Mr. Threlkeld: OK. I'm... Mayor Suarez: Why don't we get to that. Because that's my one concern about that seat, is the whole issue of... Mr. Threlkeld: OK. Mayor Suarez: ... how sturdy it is compared to yours. Mr. Threlkeld: Do you want... Mayor Suarez: But now let me ask you about yours for a second. Vice Mayor Alonso: One suggestion... Mayor Suarez: Yes. Vice Mayor Alonso: ... for the City. If they break, replace either one of them, do it. Because it's dangerous. People can get cut. Mr. Threlkeld: That's the warranty, two-year warranty. Mayor Suarez: Yes. Mr. Threlkeld: Three. Two, three. 32 May 7, 1992 i-- Mayor Suarez: Fading. Now there's a total incomprehensible answer, Mr. Lee, and, Major, you might be able to clarify this for me. I see two distinct tones of the existing seats that are there. You said those were what, "B," J.L.? Commissioner Plummer: "B" is the one that's there. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Mayor Suarez: That is not consistent with the theory that, that is simply from the action of the sun. It just is not. Because then there would be all -_- kinds of different shadings, depending on the day that it was installed. There's no way that one group was installed all one day, and the other group all another day, and there's no way that the sun would have an affect where the two tones would be so clearly distinguishable. There are two tones there. Are there not? Mr. Threlkeld: Yes, there are. You're saying the existing ones, ones that are red and ones that are orange? Mayor Suarez: Right. Mr. Threlkeld: OK. Like Mr. Cruz said, those were two different shipments. OK? I don't know. They should have been checked. They come from the same material. Mayor Suarez: Let the record reflect,... Commissioner Plummer: That was the first question I asked. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah. Mayor Suarez: ... for whatever it's worth, and it's not worth a hell of a lot in this case, for me, that your company, the gentleman here is saying no. That's exactly what they said to me. I don't know why, because it's totally illogical for me to assume that, that was the effects of the sun. Mr. Threlkeld: Mr.,,, Now, let's... Mayor Suarez: I mean,... Mr. Threlkeld: Can I... Mayor Suarez: ... if this whole issue hinged on my believing that, I would have to go against your recommendation. There is no possible way that those two tones resulted from the action of the sun. I am sorry. There is no way. Looking... Right. Now, you're saying no. At the time, I was told yes by, I believe, the same eyeglassed individual that is right there, my friend, Max Cruz. I don't want your opinions anymore on that issue, Max,... Mr. Threlkeld: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: ... because you gave me opinions that didn't make any sense to me yesterday. I'd rather hear some opinions that make some sense, particularly if you're now going to change it to be what they are saying. 33 May 7, 1992 J Mr. Threlkeld: OK. Once someone is awarded the bid, there are what they call submittals. You must submit the seat, the actual seat you are using - OK? Which is what we had the misunderstanding on... Mayor Suarez: There are two distinct shades. Is that what you're telling me? - as far as you know up there. Mr. Threlkeld: You could have a million... Oh, at the Orange Bowl there are = two shades. Yes. Mayor Suarez: There happen to be two basic colors up there. Mr. Threlkeld: Right. We would submit to the City of Public Works a sample. Mayor Suarez: Right. Mr. Threlkeld: If it was not the color to their approval, they would change it. Mayor Suarez: Does anybody... Mi. Threlkeld: Now, let's just say we shipped thirty thousand of the red - seats... Mayor Suarez: That's not my question. Mr. Threlkeld: OK. OK. Mayor Suarez: My question is... Now, Max, maybe you can answer this. Maybe I didn't ask it clearly yesterday. I'm not calling you a liar, and I'm not saying you're unintelligent or anything. I'm just saying that you didn't give me the answer that made sense to me yesterday, maybe today you would. Vice Mayor Alonso: He's not listening, so it doesn't make any difference. Mayor Suarez: Max, buddy, now I've got a question for you. Commissioner Plummer: Be careful, Max. Mayor Suarez: Why... You're saying... Today you're saying - and I'm not saying it contradicts anything you said yesterday, maybe I misunderstood you. I was kind of in a hurry yesterday. All right. Now, there are two different colors, or tones of colors of seats in the existing seats that are there. Right? Mr. Cruz: Yes, sir. Mayor Suarez: All right. Why? Mr. Cruz: When the... The seats were put in, in a period of four years,... Mayor Suarez: Yes. sl 34 May 7, 1992 Mr. Cruz: ... they all came what it seems is the same color. After a time of three or four years, some remain... Mayor Suarez: There we go again. Mr. Cruz: ... the same orange... I'm going to get to that, to the answer that I gave you yesterday. Mayor Suarez: Were they initially the same color? Mr. Cruz: They were initially the same color. Vice Mayor Alonso: Didn't they say a minute ago, no? Mayor Suarez: There ain't no wayt Mr. Cruz: Mr. Mayor, they were initially... Mayor Suarez: So you believe the same thing you told me yesterday, which I think contradicts what they said, if I understood them right. There were two different tones from the beginning there. Mr. Cruz: To the... Mayor Suarez: There have to be, Max. You're a great guy, but you can't possibly be right about this. Mr. Cruz: To any individual looking at that, they look exactly the same. What we inquired from the manufacturer... Mayor Suarez: They looked the same when? Not yesterday, not today. Mr. Cruz: When we inquired from the manufacturer said they were done in different batches,... Commissioner Dawkins: You're talking about different colors then. Mr. Cruz: ... and when they came out in different, that's why the color changes. If we get twenty thousand seats or thirty thousand seats all at once, they all will come the same color. They would only... If they change, they will change together. Mayor Suarez: All right. I see what you're saying now. What you're saying -- now is just like buying tiles. If they're not from the same batch, they're going to have a slightly different tone to then,... Mr. Cruz: They might be. Vice Mayor Alonso: And like carpets. And carpets, and all other products. Mayor Suarez: ... and that's why it's very important to order tiles and carpets in the same batch. Max, you're still off. Those are totally different colors, and the explanation that the sun wore out one color versus the other, does not wash. There is no way. Those are different colors. All right. And you accept that, Major, right? 35 May 7, 1992 i --- ---- - - -- i Commissioner Plummer: Can I ask a question? Mayor Suarez: Those were pretty different colors from day one? - as far as you know, right? Mr. Threlkeld: As far as I know, yes. Mayor Suarez: OK. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, may I inquire? Mayor Suarez: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: Administration, you tell me that both chairs are equal. Is that a true statement, basically? Mr. Lee: I say they're acceptable. Commissioner Plummer: Are they... Vice Mayor Alonso: Acceptable? Commissioner Plummer: Whoa, whoa. No, now. Don't... Mr. Lee: The quality is acceptable. Commissioner Plummer: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Now, don't place the . Are both chairs equal? Mr. Odio: I said yes. Yes. Yes. Mr. Lee: Yes. Mr. Odio: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: Then tell me why - and I'll use MET, OK? - why there's two hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollars difference between his two bids, if they're equal? Mr. Odio: I have no idea. You have to ask them that. Vice Mayor Alonso: That's what he's doing. Commissioner Plummer: I'm asking. Mr. Threlkeld: Mr. Plummer. Commissioner Plummer: Yes, sir. Mr. Threlkeld: The reason is because the company, Contour Seating, submitted a price to us, which was two hundred thousand and some odd dollars in excess. I couldn't... 36 May 7, 1992 • Commissioner Plummer: Well, but then... Mr. Threlkeld: I wouldn't speculate beyond that. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Then... OK. I accept that answer, I don't necessarily agree with it. All right? Yet, I find... Mr. Threlkeld: My... Excuse me, Mr. Plummer. Commissioner Plummer: I find the same problem here in chair "B" as I found in "A," the same company, the same seat, there's ninety-six thousand dollars in the difference in the bid. Mr. Threlkeld: The only answer I could think of is that they gave different prices to different contractors. Commissioner Plummer: Well, the only thing I can think of is the Orange Bowl's getting screwed. That's the only thing I can think of. Mayor Suarez: That's going to be the headline in the paper. Commissioner Plummer: Hey, that... Can you think of anything else? Mayor Suarez: Yeah, I think a lot of other headlines. That's not reflective of the thorough process in which we're analyzing this that's going to lead to a magnificent result somehow. Commissioner Plummer: I'm sorry. We should have protected - what is - gladeus mossosis? Mayor Suarez: OK. Wally, and I think this time G-T must be, should be... Commissioner Plummer: It's time to bring it to a head. Mayor Suarez: Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: OK? Mayor Suarez: I dust have one more concern. Let's assume that any one of us here is willing to accept some cost differential and go with the G-T seats, the "A" seats. Isn't that what you call them? Commissioner Plummer: GTE. Vice Mayor Alonso: G-T. Mayor Suarez: But they're "A" seats, right? You called the other ones "B" seats. Commissioner Plummer: G-T. Yeah. Mayor Suarez: All right. Commissioner Plummer: These are the "A." 1 37 May 7, 1992 Mayor Suarez: All right. Let's assume we're inclined to go with those, among other things because they are the ones that we were able to pest, brand new, they're much larger in surface of contact with the body - for lack of a better term. They're comfortable, much more comfortable than the others, and those kinds of things, considerations. Can you tell me, professionally, in your judgment, whether - and if not, can you guarantee me that they will last as long as theirs because - although there's wear and tear on the ones that are there, and there's some fading and there's some - but they seem to be pretty intact as to their configuration. In fact, they're incredibly hard material. Commissioner Plummer: He said that. Mayor Suarez: These, the G-T ones, give a certain amount, but on the other hand, they have two layers as opposed to one. I don't know if that's an asset or liability. In the case of the chair backs that are there, they're two - layered construction I was told,... Commissioner Plummer: You know, if I had to go through this with selling caskets, I'd never get anybody buried. Mayor Suarez: ... and they seem to have lasted extremely well. What guarantee do I have that the G-T ones will last at least as long as the ones that are there? If any. In your professional opinion, are you able to give me an opinion on that? Mr. Lee: No, I couldn't, Mayor. Mayor Suarez: OK. What guarantees do come with the contract? Mr. Lee: Well, the Sports seating offers a five-year warranty for repla... Vice Mayor Alonso: Five? Five? Mayor Suarez: Does it say limited or full warranty under federal law? Mr. Lee: I'll read it to you, if you'll permit me. Mayor Suarez: No, there's only two categories in federal law. It says either limited or full. They've got to say one of the two. Mr. Lee: Full. Mayor Suarez: All right. Commissioner Plummer: Full of what? Mr. Lee: And the framework is warrantied for seven years. seating. Mayor Suarez: The framing is seven years. Mr. Lee: Yes. That's Sports 38 May 7, 1992 ip Mayor Suarez: What percentage of the overall cost would you say is the actual seat? Any guesses? Twenty, thirty, forty percent? More? No way to tell? Mr. Lee: I don't know, sir. Mayor Suarez: No way to tell. Gentleman,... Mr. Steve Treon: If I may, please. Mayor Suarez: ... ma'am. What guarantee that,... Mr. Treon: All right. Mayor Suarez: ... in the case of those they've been there, some of them at least eight years, you were telling us, right? Some batch was there eight years. Vice Mayor Alonso: But... Eight years? Yes? Most of them? Mr. Cruz: The first ones are about eight years, then we have some six years, some five years. Mayor Suarez: OK. Mr. Treon: OK. If I may, please. I'm Steve Treon, I'm with the Contour Seats out of Allentown, Pennsylvania. Mayor Suarez: Your first name is Steve? Mr. Treon: Steve Treon, yes. Mayor Suarez: I'm having a hard time with last names here. Mr. Treon: Regarding the warranty, very clearly, even in that brochure, Sports Seating offers the one-year. So, there's obviously some game being played after the fact as to what they're going to offer. I've never heard of an eight -year warranty from even American Seating, which is the elite in the industry. Mayor Suarez: That's a very interesting answer to a question I didn't ask. Mr. Treon: No, I had to address that situation. Mayor Suarez: What about your product? Mr. Treon: Pardon? Mayor Suarez: What guarantee can you give us? Mr. Treon: We have three year. Three-year warranty. Mayor Suarez: Three-year full warranty? 39 May 7, 1992 Mr. Treon: It's limited against vandaiists. We wouldn't, obviously, wouldn't protect against vandalism, but if it's our... Mayor Suarez: OK. What would you say, Steve, if I told you that one of my assistants who weighs over two hundred pounds, stood - I don't think he jumped - on top of your seat and around where the plate is, it indicates the label of the seat,... Mr. Treon: Um-hmm. Mayor Suarez: ... it bent very quickly and left the plate kind of like pffft at an angle. Mr. Treon: OK. Well, to address that situation,... Commissioner Plummer: You shouldn't talk about Odalys like that. Mr. Treon: ... obviously the plate would be replaced, but, you know, our standard unit, which is the one right in front there has the plate on the front of the seat. We developed that seat that you saw yesterday at a request a year and a half ago when we bid saying they wouldn't accept our product unless the number plate was on top. That's the only reason we made the mold, which obviously added a lot of cost to... I mean, making a new mold is a tremendous cost. And we made that mold in order to bid the project. Mayor Suarez: Is it a fair statement to say that, that plate is not as resilient as the plastic of the seat? I think it's a pretty thin plate. Mr. Treon: It's a thin plate. Vice Mayor Alonso: Sure. Mr. Treon: That's correct. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Mayor Suarez: Are you... Can you tell us if that has been tested, your seats have been tested, as to the plastic part against... Would you stand up for a second, ma'am? Mrs. Kaminski. Let me see your heels, ma'am. A heel similar to that, or even thinner, by a person, by presumably a woman, wearing... Commissioner Plummer: I don't know why they gave it to me. Mr. Treon: Be careful. It'll give a little. Vice Mayor Alonso: We usually don't do things like that. You people do, we don't. So... Commissioner Plummer: Now, you want to talk about the new headline in the Herald? Vice Mayor Alonso: You guys do things like that. We just don't. 40 May 7, 1992 Mayor Suarez: Let me see it now after the fact. Let me see it. Yes, please. See if there was any... Commissioner Plummer: No, let's let Ralph do it. Mayor Suarez: Ralph, can you wear her heels and do it? Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: He's not wearing high heels. Mayor Suarez: Thank you, sir. Mr. Treon: I think it needs to be noted that, again, Contour Seats was developed after Sports Seating by the same person that developed... The same person developed both seats. He developed Sports Seating first, OK, and then he realized the problems based on its history, complaints of the comfort because of the molded shape and what not. I was with both companies. I left So,arts Seating and came with him when he developed Contour Seats. Mayor Suarez: You're a defector. Mr. Treon: Al right? Obviously, they're going to make a better product. And one of the first things you want to do is go to blow -molded plastic. Mayor Suarez: He's on both sides. Mr. Treon: No, I'm not on both sides, I assure you. Mayor Suarez: OK. Mr. Treon: Blow -molded plastic is superior. Mayor Suarez: You are answering a lot more than what I asked. Question. Supposing we were to go with these seats, is there any possibility that the name plate can be placed differently from the place that it is now on in the seats that are up there? = so that if someone happens to stand on the seats, in the typical area that you stand, which 1s right around, you know, the biggest part of the surface. Or does that create a problem for you? Mr. Cruz: We do not care where the numbers are as long as the numbers are there. Mayor Suarez: All right. In the future, - you ought to care. There's a big difference 1n the damage done. I presume probably for these seats, and any of the other ones, whether that - if people stand on the chairs, which they're not supposed to do, I guess. Right? But they do from time to time. Commissioner Plummer: Once every fifty years, whether you like it or not. Mayor Suarez: In rock concerts... No, no. No, J. L. In rock concerts, they do. Vice Mayor Alonso: They do? 41 May 7, 1992 4� Mayor Suarez: And they jump, and they do other things they're not supposed to do. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, in a rock concert they never even see the chair. Mayor Suarez: But they stand on top of them. Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: They jump up and down, and they scream. When we put twelve thousand (12,000) seats out on the field for Michael Jackson, not one chair was used. Mr. Treon: That's exactly why when we developed this seat, the number plate was put on the front. Again, the only reason we changed our mold is because a year and a half ago when we bid, the City told us they wouldn't accept it because the number plate aasn't on top, and we couldn't allow ourselves to be, you know, rejected through the bid process so we went ahead and made the mold. Mayor Suarez: You know, by the way, from the standpoint of physics, the force that she put on that seat is roughly ten times what yours is when you stand on it with your full... Mr. Treon: Because of the heel. Mayor Suarez: Heel. Mr. Treon: Because of the heel. Mayor Suarez: Because of the size of the heel. OK. Anything further, Commissioners? Vice Mayor Alonso: This has been quite an experience for all of us. Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: Yes. Mayor Suarez, I would like to direct my explanation now exactly to the pricing of our bid, if we are allowed, legally and officially, to talk about it. I would like to have an opinion. Mr. Jones: Opinion from me? I'll advise if the Commission wants an opinion, I'll give them an opinion. I, Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: Because I think I heard that, if voluntarily, we decide r to talk about it, but I would like to have... Mr. Jones: Yeah. t Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: ... an opinion... Mr. Jones: Yeah. i! Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: ... because about the double bonding process that cost us an additional expense, but as my experience recently tells me, I would like to f have an opinion to proceed with this explanation. f Mr. Jones: What explanation do you want? Does the Commission... - 42 May 7, 1992 z; Vice Mayor Alonso: She wants to know if she can state the price for the record. I guess that's what she's heading to. Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: Yes. Vice Mayor Alonso: Is she? Mr. Jones: Well, I'll reiterate what I advised you before. In terms of lowering or whatever else, I think you need to award a contract first, because otherwise if you attempt to negotiate what seems to be the attempt here, you're going to have... Remember there were four or five other companies that bid on this project. You're going to have a problem from them. Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: I could have sworn that I said if we voluntarily talked about it, there will be no problems, so that's what I'm trying to do now. Mr. Jones: Well, that's presuming, ma'am, that you're awarded the bid, and all I'm telling this Commission is, that until such time as they make an award, that it's going to be improper to negotiate anything. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: OK. Thank you, City Attorney. We... Commissioner Plummer: Well, to award, but we can listen. Right? Mayor Suarez: We certainly can. Mr. Jones: You can listen. Commissioner Plummer: I'm listening. Vice Mayor Alonso: Listen. Commissioner Plummer: God gave me two ears and one mouth. Mr. Jones: But just keep in mind that the perception will be that that may enter into your deliberations when you make the award. So, again, I just caution you in that regard. Vice Mayor Alonso: Don't we have enough in the record about quality and discrepancies and... Commissioner Plummer: The Mayor's rear end. Vice Mayor Alonso: Exactly. Mayor Suarez: Very discreet rear end. Commissioner Plummer: Who's lobbying who? Vice Mayor Alonso: He came to tell the Mayor he's glad he's not up here. Commissioner Plummer: He's lobbying the Mayor. 43 May 7, 1992 it Mayor Suarez: I was checking to make sure, since I know young people tell the truth, that he's not in any way related to that company. No, actually, I was trying to get Mrs. Kaminski's first name. It's Eileen. Right? Very good. You've been very helpful to us. Vice Mayor Alonso: He's into first names today. Mayor Suarez: the seats. Don't send us any invoices for participating in the testing of Commissioner Plummer: worried about. Mayor Suarez: Yes, sir. That's not my problem. It's the medical that I'm (INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD) Mayor Suarez: Oh, n*v God! What an embarrassing set of questions to ask. Thank you. Did they do any research? Did they go to any stadiums? And he was getting ready to ask a follow-up question. How do they know which one to recommend? No, no. I don't want to ask any of those. Those are so smart that it's not a real good idea. Vice Mayor Alonso: Very smart questions, logic questions that should be asked — prior to the vote. — Commissioner Plummer: Would you like to be City Manager? Vice Mayor Alonso: I couldn't agree more with you. Thank you. Mayor Suarez: There you go. You've got some testing results there. Vice Mayor Alonso: Whenever we ask, we are handed another brochure so that we use our time. They think we have ample opportunity to go through all of these brochures. Every time I ask another question, I'm given another one. I've been given several today and yesterday and the day before yesterday. Mr. Mayor, I think we should be moving. If we don't hear music in our ears, I think it's about time... Mayor Suarez: I'll entertain a motion... Vice Mayor Alonso: ... that we do something here. Mayor Suarez: ... on the matter. Yes. Vice Mayor Alonso: Are we going to hear music or what? Mayor Suarez: Oh, music. Mozart is about to play. Commissioner Plummer: You might want to hear music, but I want to hear something else. Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, I call it music. I don't know how you call it. 44 May 7, 1992 �f� w Mayor Suarez: Beethoven is about to play the ninth symphony. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: As G-T Sports - and I missed a little bit at the end here because my... Called off on the side. I guess the Commission wants us to address this situation again. Commissioner Plumper: No, no. Excuse me. No. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: No? Vice Mayor Alonso: No, we do not. Commissioner Plummer: The Commission doesn't want you to do a damn thing. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Oh, OK. Commissioner Plummer: Now, if you'd like to do something we are willing to listen to you. Vice Mayor Alonso: That's all. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: OK. Well, I... Commissioner Plummer: Make it very clear. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: I just want to be sure that I am not entering into a legal situation where I'm not allowed to say what I'm going to say, and if I might direct to the City Attorney, if I may state anything, again, on this double bond issue, if the City was able to give us a manufacturer's bond and so on and so on and so on. Mr. Jones: Sir, I can't advise you in that regaed. You know, I represent this Commission and the City, and I've stated on the record the parameters tha, I would like to see this Commission act within. What you say on the record is solely... Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me ask one other thing of the City Attorney. Maybe, maybe, just maybe it might get us off the hook. Is it possible, Mr. City Attorney, that we can send it back to all bidders for reconsideration of price? Is that possible for the next meeting? Mr. Jones: Certainly, Commissioner,... Commissioner Plummer: That's in seven days. Mr. Jones: ... if you allow this particular company to... Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. I said all. Mr. Jones: All? Yeah, well... Commissioner Plummer: OK? Now, but what I'm saying is, is it legal... Vice Mayor Alonso: No, not rebid. 45 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: You have to rebid? Mr. Jones: Yeah, you're talking about rebidding, really the whole process. Commissioner Plummer: Oh. I'm sorry. OK. No, I just... Vice Mayor Alonso: Is that the only way it could be done? _ i— Mr. Jones: That's the only way. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: Again, the Commission asked us to perform a certain task, and we at G-T Sports, we feel we were the only company that performed such a task. OK? We installed the... Mayor Suarez: We're waiting for a symphony. We're not going to hear an old record, are we? - Mr. Garcia -Toledo: OK. I'm a little lost as exactly how to proceed on this particular matter, I don't know how to proceed on this particular matter. I know that... Well, Steve, if you've got some comments, please. Mr. Treon: OK. Steve Treon again from Contour Seats in Allentown. Going with what the City Attorney says, if G-T through Contour is awarded the bid, = - if it is found out that we do not need to provide a double bond, if the number plate needs to be in the front instead of on top and the cost of that new mold is irrelevant to this job, those items will certainly be deducted only because we have found that they are not required. Before we bid the job, we _ understood they were required and, of course, had to put the money in to cover - ourself. Mayor Suarez: All right. Vice Mayor Alonso: Now much is that? Mr. Treon: It's between thirty-five and forty thousand. I wasn't prepared to sit down and figure it out, but the two cost items come between thirty-five and forty thousand. Vice Mayor Alonso: So fifty-six. Mr. Garcia -Toledo: OK. There's our song. Commissioner Plummer: Look. You know, it's very simple. Either we're going to hear something or we're ninety-six thousand dollars apart. OK? It's just that simple. Vice Mayor Alonso: Well,... Commissioner Plummer: Now, either we're going to hear something according to the City Attorney, or we're not. - Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: Luisa Garcia -Toledo. What we would not like to do here is to incur in anything that is illegal. As my son said, I'm a little bit 46 May 7, 1992 �r s lost here. Actually, that's why I was asking an opinion from the City Attorney. If we are not going to get into any lawsuits by saying this low price, and I'm sorry but I would like to get some advice. And the figure that was just explained by Steve is the actual one. So, we are... Mayor Suarez: Well, let me put can the record something to try to give a little bit of formality to this process. I believe what the City Attorney is saying 1s that once the bid is awarded, by negotiations a lower price can be obtained and that's always the case. I believe you have stated that there are certain things you have heard today that may not in fact be requirements, and they would allow you, without otherwise changing your bid whatsoever, to reduce the price somewhere between thirty-five and forty thousand, if in fact those are the things that you're allowed to have waived or changed from what you understood to be requirements, and if in fact your figures are correct, and Commissioners I think the matter has been debated, frankly, enough. I... Vice Mayor Alonso: If that is the case the difference will be fifty-six thousand. Right? Mayor Suarez: Right. Mr. Treon: Precisely. Mayor, Suarez: And I'll tell you for one,... Mrs. Garcia -Toledo: May I... Mayor Suarez: ... fifty-six thousand... Vice Mayor Alonso: The difference will be then fifty-six thousand. Commissioner Plummer: Now we've got to worry about the other company filing a lawsuit. Mayor Suarez: ... is plenty, is for me, I am in a position to conclude that your seats are much more comfortable than the other company's and the fifty- six thousand dollars is well worth the price, if in fact they last as long as the others. The information I have today, and that Eileen Kaminski has helped me to complete, indicates to me, as a layperson who has not been able to do destructive testing, and not much testing at all, and certainly none on the M- ET or N-E-T seats, but certainly was able to walk on the ones that are there and kind of just feet them and touch them and sit on them. I conclude, for Myself, that these are clearly superior seats and a lot more comfortable, a lot wider. I'm concerned about the other company not having followed the procedure that we indicated, but that is not a decisive thing for me. That maybe was a matter of confusion. I am convinced, however, that you are not only eager, but ready and able to perform very quickly, and really the crucial factor for me is how comfortable those seats are compared to... I find the other ones to be extremely uncomfortable... Commissioner Plummer: Well, let's put another factor on the record, Mr. Mayor. You know, this is bothering me, and I haven't said anything to this point, but I've got to put it on the record because, you know, I'm the one with the proverbial on the line. I did the negotiations with the University 47 May 7, 1992 of Miami. OK.? Mr. Mayor, at all cost, and I'm not talking necessarily jus dollars, we've got a contract to meet with the University of Miami. OK? I'v got to raise the question on the record that if we do not award this to th low bidder, and the other one takes us to court, where are we? I think we'r in breach of contract, and that scares me to no... (INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD) Commissioner Plummer: Huh? (INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD) Commissioner Plummer: they... t e e e t _= In other words, if the other one took us to court, Vice Mayor Alonso: We have two companies, low bidder. Mr. Odio: If we don't have the seats replaced - I wanted this for the record so that the Orange Bowl Committee is listening and I know... Commissioner Plummer: Oh. OK. Mr. Odio: UM (University of Miami) is here. Commissioner Plummer: No, I was thinking University of Miami. Mr. Odio: We did not commit to replacing all the seats at the Orange Bowl with any contract... Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Mr. Manager, for your information, I asked Max Cruz yesterday... Mr. Odio: He's wrong, if he told you different. Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. He's not wrong because he showed me that all of the seating has been ripped out... Mr. Odio: Oh, yeah. Commissioner Plummer: ... up to the top decks... Mr. Odio: Correct. Commissioner Plummer: ... and that in fact you can't wait... Mr. Odio: I'm sorry. Commissioner Plummer: ... because there is no seats when they put the decks back. Mr. Odio: That's true. We assumed that we would have the new seats in place. Commissioner Plummer: OK? So excuse me, there's no... 48 May 7, 1992' Mr. Odio: But as far as the contract with the University, we never committed to replacing all the seats at the Orange Bowl, except that since we had a bid and we have the money, we expected that this... We didn't expect this controversy. Commissioner Plummer: I'd hate to go back with my hat in my hand to the University saying, "I'm sorry, you're thirty thousand seats less." — Commissioner De Yurre: You did commit to have the seats, though? (INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD) Commissioner De Yurre: OK. Mr. Odio: Contract or not, yeah we have to have the seats. These seats, or whatever. Commissioner De Yurre: You can't put back... Commissioner Plummer: By the first game. Mr. Odio: Yes. Commissioner De Yurre: ... the ones you had. Commissioner Plummer: That's the area that I'm addressing and putting on the record that is a concern. Vice Mayor Alonso: Now, one concern that I have is that the company, MET, are they going to be able to provide the seats? My concern comes from the fact they could not possibly obtain one, nine, eight, five or ten seats to show us, so I'm concerned., Are they going to be able to have all thirty thousand here? I couldn't help it. I have doubts. Mr. Threlkeld: Mrs. Alonso. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Mr. Threlkeld: Like I said before, it was a misunderstanding of supplying the seats, the product. We thought it was an installation process you wanted to see, and once again I state for the record, no, we will not have a problem installing the seats, and no, we will not have problem getting the seats here on time to do it. Commissioner Plummer: How much is their performance bond? Mr. Lee: The amount of... Commissioner Plummer: Of the bid? Mr. Lee: ... the bid. Yes, sir. Seven hundred and... Commissioner Plummer: And they're aware that noncompliance is thirty-five hundred dollars ($3,500.00) a day? 49 May 7, 1992 Mr. Threlkeld: Yes. We are aware of liquidated damages, and nonperformance is forfeiture of the performance bond. Commissioner Plummer: And any lawsuits thrown against us by the University of Miami for noncompliance? They're aware of that? Mr. Threlkeld: We're aware of everything in the bidding document, sir. Mayor Suarez: OK. Let's go for it. One way or the other. Someone, please. Mr. Odio: The first thing you need to do is item 1, Mr. Mayor. You see... Mayor Suarez: I don't even have to repeat that the idea of making two alternative bids of this sort is not the way we want to function in the future. Mr. Odio: OK. Well... Mayor Suarez: The staff should have... Commissioner Plummer: So be it. Mayor Suarez: ... convinced us and should have convinced itself that one of the two is better for whatever reason, and then let the world bid and whoever comes in with the lowest price gets it. We are convinced that having not done that the way we would like, we still have a quandary between the two because we can go with the low bidder for either of the two, and legally do so, and withstand any challenge in court. Is that correct, Mr. City Attorney? Mr. Jones: That's correct. Mayor Suarez: And so we appreciate, in the future, not being put into this quandary by the Administration. I don't know what else to say about it? Commissioners. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah, I'd like to put in the record that, as the Mayor stated before, I agree this seat, the "A," I find that they are better quality, they are much more comfortable than the seat "B." I regret that we have been put in a position of making distinctions about quality, Installation, and the like, and it has kind of confused the process and has presented.to us a case that is difficult to make a final decision. On the one hand, we know for a fact, because it's obvious to the eye that we have a much better product and we are thinking about extended period of time. This is in a -stadium. This is not something for one day, we are talking at least ten years ahead of us, a long period of time, much longer than that probably, and we see a difference in price that is not that high. I think these are issues that the Administration should come to us prepared to address from day one, to make the job of making the decision a little bit easier for us. We find ourselves in the struggle of saying, "yes, I find this product is better. The difference in price is a little bit higher, not that much. Where do we go?" And it's a serious struggle. In my heart, I also have doubts whether this company is going to deliver or not on time because of the problem not having been able to meet the proof of giving us a sample of the product, which I 50 May 7, 1992 think is a basic issue in any kind of presentation. So it makes it very, very difficult to make a final decision. I hope that in the wisdom of this Commission, someone will come with a very smart decision and we will be able to follow. But it's very difficult... Commissioner De Yurre: Mr. Mayor. Vice Mayor Alonso: ... to vote one way or the other. Mayor Suarez: OK. Commissioner De Yurre. Commissioner De Yurre: There may not be a lot of wisdom in this, but it's been an hour and forty-eight minutes that we've been at this. I have a question, and I think this will simplify things to a great degree and I' i 1 make a motion right afterwards. What is the life expectancy of the seats that G-T is providing? Mr. Treon: OK. If I may answer that. Steve Treon with Contour Seats out of Allentown, Pennsylvania. It's the blow -molded, it's plastic that has all the guarantees. It's not a company, it's the plastic. The life expectancy based on weathesomoter testing, which in the specifications calls for minimum life expectancy of ten thousand (10,000) hours or a minimum of ten years. Our product meets and exceeds that. The Sports Seating product fails at seven thousand (7,000) hours. OK? They have been in the Orange Bowl to show that they have been there seven years and already meet that, but the bottom line is that they don't meet the ten thousand (10,000) hours. The minimum life expectancy is ten years, that's minimum, and as far as how far beyond that will they go, like I say, blow -molded plastic 1s in most major stadiums. I can say that stadium in Philadelphia because I go there a lot. The blow - molded... Mayor Suarez: You've answered a little bit more than what he asked,... Commissioner De Yurre: OK. Mayor Suarez: ... and I think I require, Mr. Commissioner, if there is any clarification on the comparison. You asked only about your seats... Mr. Treon: Um-hmm. Mayor Suarez: The Commissioner asked only about your seats, but you answered a comparison. Is it in any incorrect from our standpoint, the testing that he just gave which gives the sort of relative life expectancies of the two? Commissioner De Yurre: Well, to tell you the truth, Mr. Mayor, I stopped listening after he gave me the answer that I wanted. Mayor Suarez: If you need to... Commissioner De Yurre: Let me say.,,. Mayor Suarez: ... correct in the record any of that, or if the other company needs to correct in the record any of that, you may do so as to the comparison. He asked about your seats, and you should have just answered as to those. 51 May 7, 1992 Mr. Treon: Yes, sir. Commissioner De Yurre: OK. I also believe that these seats are more comfortable than the ones that are at the Orange Bowl right now. And the bottom line is, if you're talking about a minimum life expectancy of ten years, and you take the ninety-six thousand which may be a lot less, and you divide it over the ten-year period, we're talking about nine thousand plus dollars a year. Now is the fan that goes to the Orange Bowl going on a regular basis deserving of a little bit better comfort? - for nine thousand dollars a year. And I can think of twenty different ways that we spend and blow nine thousand dollars annually on a whole bunch of things that really have no impact in our community. So I think that, considering everything and really breaking it down in this component, that nine thousand dollars is worth the comfort of our citizens, the hundreds and thousands, that go to the Orange Bowl. So I'm going to make a motion that we accept the bid of G-T and place in the seats that they're providing us with in this bid. Mayor Suarez: So moved. Commissioner De Yurre: That is my motion. Mayor Suarez: And in effect that accepts the protest of G-T Sports, or I don't even know if we act on that, if that takes care of items 1 and 2. Vice Mayor Alonso: I so move. I second. Mayor Suarez: On the assumption that this passes, will this dispose of both items? Mr. Jones: No. You need to vote on them separately. Procedurally, you should either reject or accept the protest first. Mayor Suarez: Well, that's what we're asking. If we... Commissioner Plummer: May I... Mayor Suarez: ... in fact give it to the protesting entity, do we need to first do anything about the protest? - or do we just give it to the protesting entity by which... Mr. Jones: And that's what I'm... Vice Mayor Alonso: So item 1... Mr. Jones: That's what I'm answering you. You need to take action on the protest first. Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Item 1 first. Mayor Suarez: So that then seems to me to resolve 2, but anyhow... Commissioner Plummer: Question. What was I told that they had came down to? =; Fifty-six thousand difference. -s 52 May 7, 1992 1; l Mayor Suarez: Difference. Roughly. Vice Mayor Alonso: Fifty-six thousand. Commissioner Plummer: He's saying ninety-six thousand. Commissioner De Yurre: No, I'm saying... Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, well he said... Commissioner De Yurre: ... just looking at it as it stands right now,... Mayor Suarez: On the face. Commissioner De Yurre: ... understanding that there may be, like, another savings of about forty thousand dollars, which would make my argument... Vice Mayor Alonso: So the difference will be fifty-six... Commissioner De Yurre: ... that much more stronger. Vice Mayor Alonso: Fifty-six hundred a year,... Commissioner De Yurre: Yeah. Vice Mayor Alonso: ... rather than the ninety-six thousand. Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me tell you. Let me tell you where I'm at. OK? I think we've got to compare "apples to apples." If this company is willing to come down to the equal price with the exclusion of the bid bond, which they were required to do and double their expense, if they come down to the same level, I think they're in the ball park. But fifty-six thousand is where I've got a problem, and I've got to admit right up on top of the deck. Mayor Suarez: You can't do 1t that way because then the otter company can say, well, hell... - Commissioner Plummer: No, I... Hey, Mr. Mayor, I understand. OK? And I was hopeful that they were going to come down to that number. But let's take it from there and see what happens. - Mayor Suarez: Al right. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? If not, please call the roll on accepting the protest of G-T Sports Enterprises, and then we'll have to decide 1f we need to have a vote on 2. I don't know exactly why. Commissioner Plummer: I think you've got to do it either way. Vice Mayor Alonso: So we are going to vote first on item 1? Commissioner Plummer: Of course. i i 53 May 7, 1992 Commissioner De Yurre: Hold it a second. Hold it a second. I've just been told by the City Manager that we're breaking the law by doing this, and I want it stated on the record. - Mr. Odic: You are breaking the bidding process. You are breaking the bidding process. - Commissioner De Yurre: Are we breaking the law or not? Mayor Suarez: By doing what? Mr. Odic: If you change... Mayor Suarez: By accepting the protest and choosing G-T? He just told me five minutes before that we're not. Mr. Odic: If you... Well,... Mr. Jones: Well, you have to.... Mr. Odic: Look, I'm not worried about... let me... Commissioner De Yurre: I've got seven Assistant City Attorneys here saying, yes, that it's breaking the law and I want to know what the heck's going on. Mayor Suarez: What are you talking about? What's breaking the law? He just said a few minutes ago, we have... Vice Mayor Alonso: If we are breaking the law, why is it part of our agenda to accept or reject? Mr. Odic: My main concern... No, you can accept or reject the bid, but then you have to throw them all out, or you have to do something different. You cannot award it to them. Vice Mayor Alonso: Listen, Mr. City Manager. You have given us two bids, "A" and "B." You have given to us too the lowest bids in each one of them.. I think it's the privilege of this Commission to accept "A" or "B." Isn't it? Mr. Jones: That's correct. Mr. Odio: My concern is to protect the Orange Bowl... Vice Mayor Alonso: Let me hear from the City Attorney. You have given us a bid that reads "A" and "B." It is the privilege of this Commission to accept "A" or "B." Is that right? Mr. Jones: You can accept either alternative. Vice Mayor Alonso: Then are we in violation of any taw? Mr. Jones: I'm sorry, Commissioner. Vice Mayor Alonso: Are we violating the law as he has stated? 54 May 7, 1992 Mr. Jones: No. You have... The way the bid document was responses and the bid was worded, you have the, at your discretion, that you can choose either alternative. Mayor Suarez: That's what I thought you said before. Vice Mayor Alonso: Then... Mayor Suarez: I mean, I always understood that from the beginning. Vice Mayor Alonso: Then what seems to be the problem? Commissioner Dawkins: Call the... I call the question. Mayor Suarez: OK. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? If not, please call the roll. Commissioner Plummer: Just for the record. Just very, very... Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait. Commissioner Plummer. I'm sorry. Commissioner Plummer: Very simply. Even though I will be voting negatively, for the record, Mr. City Attorney, clearly you are not indicating that this is an illegal vote? Mr. Jones: The vote that you're about to take certainly is not illegal. Commissioner Plummer: Thank you, sir. Mr. Jones: It may have some legal ramifications, but the vote in and of Itself 1s no. Vice Mayor Alonso: What is that supposed to mean? Now to me, give it in black and white. If you are going to put the City of Miami in a position that we are going to end in court, and the Orange Bowl is going to be damaged, or the City of Miami and the taxpayers will have additional cost, I will vote with whatever recommendation you give to me, because I am not about to put the City of Miami in a situation that will be costly to the citizens. But I need a concrete answer. A yes or a no. Mr. Jones: Commissioner, if you want me to expound further, I will. OK? Vice Mayor Alonso: Please do. Mr. Jones: All I'm telling you, the vote that you're about to take, simply voting, is not illegal. what I'm telling you, that I cannot guarantee you that the unsuccessful bidder or bidders will not come forth and file a lawsuit against the City saying that the award was done improperly. That's all I'm telling you. _ Mayor Suarez: All right. let's... Vice Mayor Alonso: It is in your opinion... Do they have grounds or not? -' 55 May ?, 1992 _a Commissioner Dawkins: Can you successfully... Mr. Jones: I can tell you... I can't sit here and tell you that I can successfully defend, I will do everything that's possible, as I do in every lawsuit to successfully defend. Mayor Suarez: All right. Mr. Jones: I cannot tell you what a court is going to do. Mayor Suarez: Procedurally, counsel. If a lawsuit is filed by any of the entities not chosen and a challenge based on whatever grounds, valid or invalid, is there any assurance, procedurally, that we can go ahead and do the work without any restraining order? Is there any bond that we can post at the appropriate time? Those of us up here, as Commissioner Plummer said before, would like your assurances that even if a lawsuit is filed, and even if it doesn't have merit, from our perspective, that we can bond out any restraining order or otherwise satisfy the conditions of the court so that we can complete the improvements in an expedited fashion. Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor and Commissioners, the City would not be the moving party. Normally the moving party who seeks the restraining order is required to post the bond. I can tell you that, that's a distinct possibility, that an injunction would be sought. The way I view it, I think there would he an adequate remedy at law... Mayor Suarez: There we go. There should be a way for us to satisfy the court that if we did not act meritoriously, the plaintiff company will not be harmed by allowing us to complete the work. At worst, we would have to pay them their profits or whatever damages they incurred. Is that correct? Mr. Jones: That's correct. Mayor Suarez: Very good. Thank you. Anything further, Commissioners? If not, please call the roll. The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Be Yurre, who moved its adoption: RESOLUTION NO. 92-271 A RESOLUTION, OVERRULING THE CHIEF PROCUREMENT OFFICER'S DECISION TO REJECT THE PROTEST OF G-T SPORTS ENTERPRISES, INC., IN CONNECTION WITH BID NO. 9C•91- 069, ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION PROJECT, PHASE II S'-fAT REPLACEMENT, AS IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED TO HAVE Mx:�ff. (Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on file in the Office of the City Clerk.) Upon being seconded by Vice Mayor Alonso, the resolution was passed and adopted by the following vote: 56 May 7, 1992 AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso Mayor Xavier L. Suarez NOES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. ABSENT: None. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5. (A) SELECT CATEGORY "A" AS MOST DESIRABLE SEATING TO BE INSTALLED AT THE ORANGE BOWL. (B) SELECT LOWEST BIDDER UNDER SEATING CATEGORY "A" IN CONNECTION WITH ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION PROJECT PHASE II - SEAT REPLACEMENT B- 6202 (BID NO. 90-91-069). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Comm ssi oner Plummer: Now go to 2. Mayor Suarez: Do we need to do anything on 2 at this point, Mr. Jones? _ A. Quinn Jones III, Esq.: Yes, as a separate item you need to make the award. Mayor Suarez: OK. Awarding the bid then for the seats to G-T - is that the correct name? Commissioner Plummer: G-T Sports. Mayor Suarez: I'll entertain a motion on that. So moved, somebody? Ms. Hirai: Mr. Mayor, did you vote yes on the motion? - Mayor Suarez: Yes. Yes. Yes. Ms. Hirai: Yes. Vice Mayor Alonso: Now, again... Did the City Manager resign? - when he doesn't want to answer questions. Commissioner Plummer: No, he's not answering legal questions. Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh. Oh. Mr. Cesar Odio: No, Madam, I will not give you that pleasure. I'm telling you that I have to be concerned about the Orange Bowl and the Orange Bowl alone. Vice Mayor Alonso: No. I misunderstood. I thought you said I will not answer questions about Orange Bowl, and I was thoroughly confused. Mr. Odio: And I want to make sure that we are doing the right thing so that we are not talking about seats here for the next 60 days. In the meantime, we have a game coming up September 18th. 57 May 79 1992 L —1 Commissioner Plummer: Well, wait a minute. Can I speak legally to the City Attorney? Mr. Jones: Yes, sir. Commissioner Dawkins: I make a motion you throw them all out and start over. Mayor Suarez: So moved. Do we have a second? _ Vice Mayor Alonso: What? What? Commissioner Dawkins: I mean, everybody seems to be, everybody wants it done, nobody warts it done. We've got somebody saying they're going to have it ready on time, and nobody... So, I make a motion, throw it out and start all over. Mayor Suarez: So moved. Do we have a second? Do we have a second? Third time, do we have a second? Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, how long will it take? Commissioner Be Yurre: There is no second. For the... Mayor Suarez: Thank God and the angels. Yes. Commissioner Plummer: I'm sorry. I tried. Commissioner Be Yurre: The bottom line is that we have to finish the Orange Bowl, and I cannot jeopardize it in any way, fashion or form,... Commissioner Plummer: That's the name of the game. Commissioner Be Yurre: ... and to tell you the truth, I can't let comfort get in the way of jeopardizing this situation. OK? That is my position, and unless I get an assurance from the Legal Department that it can be done, I really can't in good conscience go along with it. Mayor Suarez: OK. Vice Mayor Alonso: So I think what is in order is that the Legal Department states on the record what should be the best avenue, and then we should hear from the City Manager his recommendation. Mayor Suarez: OK. Why don't we get one last restatement from the City Attorney, and then one from the City Manager... Vice Mayor Alonso: Because it's going to be very difficult for us to vote when we are told we are going to end in court. I mean, and I hope that this is the last time and this is the second time that it happened in relation to the Orange Bowl, that we are put in a position that, because of our vote, we can end in court, and I just hope that this practice ends, and that we don't see it again.in some other process in the future. So, let's hear... 58 May 7, 1992 r 41 q, Mr. Jones: Well, Madam Vice Mayor, let me ,just state for the record what you should be aware of. The fact of the matter is that your City Manager has made a recommendation. I think the record is replete with findings, or at least verbal findings, that both of these products are comparable. The bidding process calls for your selecting, and given that they are comparable, it also requires you to accept the low bidder. Notwithstanding, you still had the alternative to select, in my opinion, "A" or "B." I cannot tell you, and I... Mayor Suarez: Otherwise it would have been simply done in terms of you must bid on either of these two kinds of products,... Mr. Jones: Absolutely. Mayor Suarez: ... but one bid. This way, alternative bids, to me, clarifies to the world that we have the option. Mr. Jones: Yeah. And... Mayor Suarez: If not, why... Mr. Jones: That's correct, Mr. Mayor, and let me go one step further. I can't be unequivocal on this point. You seem to want some assurances from me that 1f you award this contract to G-T-S, that there won't be any litigation or that the construction on the Orange Bowl won't be held up. I can't give you that assurance. Mrs. Luisa Garcia -Toledo: Mayor Suarez, may I... Mayor Suarez: Wait. Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask one question. Mr. Manager, your recommendation, was it not predicated basically on the low bid? Mr. Odio: That's all. I don't care which seat it is. Low bidder. Commissioner Plummer: All right. Low bid. If, in fact, this City Commission made a determination based on the latitude of the adjectives that you used, and they were broad in nature, everyone having their own opinion, if this Commission made a determination that they selected seat "A," then we send it back to you for are alternative. Wouldn't you primarily go with the low bidder? Mr. Odio: Please rephrase that. I want to be careful with it. Commissioner Plummer: All right, sir. If the City Commission made a determination, which I think we have the latitude to do,... Mr. Odio: Correct. Commissioner Plummer: Based on the criteria... Mayor Suarez: Of the two kinds of seats, we go with one and then you choose the low bidder. 59 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: OK? That we made a criteria that we felt for - what is it? - comfort of seating, that "A" was superior to "B." We make that determination, I think was within our purview to do. OK? Then, would you, in fact, sent back to you, make a recommendation predicated on the low bidder? 0o you understand what I'm saying? Mr. Odio: Yes. Yes. I understand what you're saying now. Let me see something. You want an honest answer, Commissioner? = - Commissioner Plummer: Sir, I never, ever have asked you, in 21 years, for a dishonest answer. Mr. Odio: I will stick with my lower bid. It's too much of a difference, and _ we... Commissioner Plummer: Sir, that's not your determination. Vice Mayor Alonso: That's not the question. Commissioner Plummer: Let me phrase it to you again, sir. Mr. Odio: Yeah, I know... Commissioner Plummer: determination... This Commission has, in my opinion, the right to make a Mr. Odio: Yes. Yes, you do. Commissioner Plummer: ... as to whether they want chair "A" or chair "B" predicated on what this gentleman read to me, if nothing more, that one chair is more comfortable than the other. Mayor Suarez: Yeah, here's the problem... Commissioner Plummer: Now, my... Mayor Suarez: ... that I think... Commissioner Plummer: ... behind has the right... Mayor Suarez: J. L., let me just put... Commissioner Plummer: ... to make that determination. Mayor Suarez: Let me clarify something on the record. Mr. Manager, you're getting information from your staff. Let's clarify... Everything has to be done on the record here, folks. Mr. Odio: Let me say... Mayor Suarez: If you choose one of the two alternatives, the lowest bidder, who is under "A" and who 1s it under "B"? Mr. Odio: Under "A," it's MET. Under "B," would be G-T.Sports. 60 May 7, 1992 Vice Mayor Alonso: No, no, no. Mr. Odic: I'm sorry. What is it? Mr. Lee: It's the opposite. =- Mr. Odic: It's the opposite. I'm sorry. Mayor Suarez: Under "A," it is MET. _ Vice Mayor Alonso: No. Commissioner Plummer: No, no. Mr. Odic: No, The opposite. Vice Mayor Alonso: No, the other way around. — Mayor Suarez: OK. Under "B," it is MET. Under "A," it is what? =- Mr. Odic: G-T Sports. Vice Mayor Alonso: G-T Sports. Mayor Suarez: So how can we contemplate... Oh, G-T. That's there. So what's the problem? — Vice Mayor Alonso: That's the company. Mayor Suarez: What were you guys hovering over there about? What's the big deal?. Vice Mayor Alonso: They are the lowest bidder. Mayor Suarez: You have two kinds of seats. The Commissioner is asking you, since you bid them in the alternative, can we decide first that, in fact, we prefer one kind of seats for all the factors in question,... Mr. Odic: OK. Mayor Suarez: ... and then within that category, select the lowest bidder? That's the question. Mr. Odic: Now, the answer to Plummer's question in looking at this now, is - that if you choose comfort, and that's your right to do. In other words,... Mayor Suarez: It's not just comfort, it's a lot of other things. But go -- ahead. - Mr. Odic: OK. Or other chairs, that still would be the lowest bidder because G-T°would be lowest bidder on that type of seating. Commissioner Plummer: But what I'm asking is,... 61 May 7, 1992 j Mayor Suarez: G-T being this company here? Commissioner Plummer: ... Mr. City Attorney, legally does this Commission have the right, first and foremost, to choose seat "A" or "B"? Mr. Odio: See, that's why I'm... Mr. Jones: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Mr. Odio: They have... Mr. Jones: They have... You can choose either alternative. Commissioner Plummer: Then once we make that determination, then we say to the City Manager, "Sir, we choose "A" over "B," and we ask you now to come back and make a recommendation to us on "A." Mr. Odio: That is a different approach. Commissioner Plummer: I'm asking if that's legal. Mayor Suarez: Of all the things that have transpired here in an hour and 36 minutes, or whatever amount of time it is, almost two hours, the one really intelligent thing from the legal standpoint that we have done, folks, is that suggestion. Almost everything we've done hurts our case in court, except that. Let us first go - I think I'm correct on that, Mr. City Attorney - Let us first select the kind of seat that we prefer for all the reasons stated, and then within that, we tell the Manager, what is the lowest bid and then go with that. Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor, I think that was the intent a long time ago. Mayor Suarez: That kind of lays a pretty good... Yeah. Mr. Jones: That's good. Mayor Suarez: I mean, we meant to do that. It's just that we haven't clarified it up until now. Vice Mayor Alonso: We meant to do that. I have asked that a hundred times. Mayor Suarez: Right. Mr. Odio: Well, if you tell me to go with comfort and... Vice Mayor Alonso: Trying to get a reasonable answer. "A" and "B"... Mayor Suarez: Let us then build into the motion... I'll entertain a motion as to the alternative of the two that we prefer, and then immediately after that instruct the Manager to negotiate with the lowest bidder in that category. —' How's that? 62 May 7, 1992 Vice Mayor Alonso: We had a motion on that. Mayor Suarez: I thought we did, but... Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. So... Mayor Suarez: ... it may have been withdrawn because Commissioner De Yurr was... (INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD) Mayor Suarez: Yeah, yours was to throw out all the bids and... Vice Mayor Alonso: We already took a vote on that. Mayor Suarez: ... that died. Commissioner De Yurre: What's the motion? Vice Mayor Alonso: Now, we will make the selection... Commissioner Plummer: I haven't heard a motion. 4 e Vice Mayor Alonso: ... of what is... Commissioner Plummer: I think they're looking for you to make one. Vice. Mayor Alonso: OK. Now, the selection... To select what is the... Mayor Suarez: Category. Vice Mayor Alonso: ... category that we feel is the best one, and I move that category "A" is the best according to my impression. I so move. Mayor Suarez: So moved, and we select category "A" seating. Do we have a second on that? Do we have a second on that? Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, you know, I keep hearing... I want to second it for discussion and maybe vote against it. Mayor Suarez: How could you possibly discuss this any more than we have discussed it already? Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me tell you something, sir. OK? Mayor Suarez: All right. Commissioner Plummer: I still would want some determination - and I'm going to be ask and be repetitious again. Somewhere, somebody has got to explain to me where there is two hundred and ninety-six thousand dollars ($296,000.00) difference. When you tell me... I said I was being repetitious. I didn't accept the first answer. OK? 63 May 7, 1992 r Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor. Commissioner Plummer: That there is a big difference between the two chairs. At best, it's ninety-one thousand. Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor, I have a question. Do I have the heart attack now, or I wait until the end of the process? Commissioner Plummer: If you have it now, I'm in a conflict of interest, because I might have to bury you. Mayor Suarez: In which case, why don't you two get together on the timing of all of this and let's just get it done. Commissioner Plummer: Which comes first? Mayor Suarez: Get together on the sequence of the whole situation. All right, folks. We've got to vote on this. We have a motion. We don't have a second, I don't think because it was interrupted by a clarification. Ah, no, you seconded it for discussion. Ms. Hirai: Yes, it's been seconded. Mayor Suarez: The motion is to accept the category "A" seat and then within that, presumably, we'll go with the lowest bidder. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Mayor Suarez: So moved and seconded. Commissioner Plummer: But the second motion I'm voting against. Mayor Suarez: Any discussion? If not, please call the roll. The following resolution was introduced by Vice Mayor Alonso, who moved its adoption: RESOLUTION NO. 92-272 A RESOLUTION APPROVING SELECTION OF ALTERNATE BID "A" SEATS AS THE TYPE OF SEAT TO BE SELECTED FOR ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION PROJECT PHASE II (1992) - SEAT REPLACEMENT. (Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on file in the Office of the City Clerk.) Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the resolution was passed and adopted by the following vote: 64 May 7, 1992 AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr. Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso Mayor Xavier L. Suarez NOES: None. ABSENT: None. COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL: Commissioner De Yurre: My vote is predicated on this response. Do we have any legal problem that may hold up finishing the Orange Bowl as scheduled? Mr. Odio: Let me ask, since I started this whole... If you do it this way,... Commissioner De Yurre: No, legal opinion. Legal. Mr. Odio: ... this 1s correct. Commissioner De Yurre: Legal. You didn't go to law school, Cesar. Mr. Jones: Commissioner, as the Mayor stated, if it's done this way, you're bifurcating it and deciding on the seat first, and then taking the low bidder within the group. I think that lessens the impact of... Commissioner De Yurre: OK. You know your job is on the line? Vice Mayor Alonso: Lessens the... Mr. Jones: Yes, sir. Commissioner De Yurre: OK. I vote yes. Commissioner Plummer: Your seat is on the line. I stated... Commissioner Dawkins: He's going to philosophize. Watch him. You guys watch. He's just going to philosophize and vote yes. Watch him. Mayor Suarez: We have a philosopher king up here. Commissioner Plummer: Did somebody hear a noise? Mayor Suarez: We have a philosopher king and a blues brother and the two of them kind of... Commissioner Plummer: As I stated to the media yesterday, that I felt that there was a difference, even slight as it may be, I will vote yes because I felt there was a difference. COMMENTS MADE AFTER ROLL CALL: 65 May 7, 1992 r s Mayor Suarez: And on selection of the particular bid, I guess we really have no choice but to select the lowest bidder. There would be no reason not to, _ so I'll entertain a motion on that. To select the lowest bidder in category "A,n Vice Mayor Alonso: So moved. Commissioner De Yurre: 1 hate to move to vote for somebody that's going to cost us more. I have to second that. Mayor Suarez: OK. So moved and seconded and within that category, anyone else would cost more. Commissioner Plummer: Wait a minute. Mayor Suarez: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: Wait, wait, wait. Mayor Suarez: Within that category, there's no alternative. Commissioner Plummer: Who seconded the motion? Mayor Suarez: Commissioner De Yurre. Commissioner Plummer: All right. And you seconded predicated on what number? Vice Mayor Alonso: The lowest bidder. Commissioner Dawkins: The lowest thing they can come up with. Mayor Suarez: The lowest bid. We'll negotiate with the lowest bid. As it is now stated, what is the amount? Commissioner Plummer: Oh, negotiate... Mayor Suarez: As it is now stated, to make this a hundred percent legal and kosher, what... Mr. Jones: No negotiations. Commissioner Plummer: I can't vote for it if it's what is on the paper. Mayor Suarez: ... is the lowest bid? Mr. Odio: The lowest bid on the category... Put it on the record. It's eight hundred and sixty-eight thousand five hundred. Vice Mayor Alonso: I hope we never go through anything like this again. Mayor Suarez: OK. And that does not preempt the negotiations with the lowest bidder, a lower price as previously stated, but it certainly does not require that, and we really should not get into that today. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? If not, please call the roll. 66 May 7, 1992 a� r The following resolution was introduced by Vice Mayor Alonso, who moved its adoption: RESOLUTION NO. 92-273 A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE BID OF G-T SPORTS ENTERPRISES, INC., IN THE PROPOSED AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $868,500.00, TOTAL BID OF THAT PROPOSAL, FOR ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION PROJECT PHASE II (1992) - SEAT REPLACEMENT B-6202, ALTERNATE BID "A," WITH MONIES THEREFOR ALLOCATED FROM THIS FISCAL YEAR 1991- 92 CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT ORDINANCE NO. 10938, PROJECT NO. 404238; AND AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO EXECUTE A CONTRACT WITH SAID FIRM. (Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on file in the Office of the City Clerk.) Upon being seconded by Commissioner De Yurre, the resolution was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso Mayor Xavier L. Suarez NOES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. ABSENT: None. COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL: Mr. Jones: They can negotiate a contract. Commissioner Plummer: They can negotiate... Mr. Jones: A contract... You know, once the contract... Commissioner Plummer: But it's got to come back here? Mr. Jones: No. Commissioner Plummer: I'm sorry then. Under those... If it was negotiated and it came back to us for final approval, and I had another bite at the apple, I would vote yes. OK? But I can't because it's not coming back here. Mayor Suarez: OK. Commissioner Plummer: OK? Ms. Hirai: So you vote yes? Commissioner Plummer: I have to vote negative. 67 May 7, 1992 Vice Mayor Alonso: It's not coming back here, but it's going back there. Commissioner Plummer: It's going back there, but we don't know what the final negotiated number is going to be. Mayor Suarez: We don't know that. Commissioner Plummer: OK? We don't know that,. All right? Ms. Hirai: So you vote yes, Commissioner? You vote yes? Mayor Suarez: I think he votes no. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Commissioner Dawkins: Commissioner Plummer voted what? Ms. Hirai: He voted yes. Commissioner Plummer: I voted no. Ms. Hirai: Oh, you vote no? Vice Mayor Alonso: He voted no. I voted yes. Ms. Hirai: I am sorry. COMMENTS MADE AFTER ROLL CALL: 'F Commissioner Plummer: Congratulations. Mayor Suarez: Now, even though we have a record replete with the possibility of litigation, let me convey to both the City Manager and the City Attorney =- the following admonition. Please, folks, if procedurally there is anything that this Commission can do to withstand a legal challenge, and to get the 6 Orange Bowl completed in time to meet our other contractual obligations, not to mention to show our good faith 1n all of this process, I want you to inform us of that. Neither one is listening. Commissioner Plummer: Cesar, he's talking to you. i� Mayor Suarez: I'm sure that they're taking it to heart, but I really would appreciate... To work, almost on a daily basis, between your two offices to make sure that this happens and if, by any chance, any resources are needed or any Commission action whatsoever, to notify us for the institution of a special session, if need be. For example, if any kind of a bond needs to be posted, or 1f any kind of procedure to approve anything further, any - modification, anything whatsoever to expedite and complete this job on time. _ Having said all of that, too, let me say, for the purposes of the media, despite all of the consideration of all kinds of legal action, I'm not impressed with any of those possibilities. We had before a matter having to do with the removal of the... 68 May 7, 1992 11 Commissioner Plummer: Asbestos. 11 Mayor Suarez: It wasn't really the asbestos, but the asbestos removal was a concomitant, or something that happened together with it and we had learned counsel, Richard Weiss here, four presentations, all kinds of threats. Never went to court on it. We did what we thought was right. We did what we were told was legal, and the work proceeds. I wouldn't even give it a second thought. Now, hopefully that doesn't induce anybody to file a suit, but to the extent that anybody does and tries to get any injunctive relief against the City, stop the work in any way, any time of day or night, let us know, Mr. Manager, please, Mr. City Attorney, 1f this Commission needs to do anything, including meeting at one o'clock in the morning, two o'clock in the morning. We want to comply with our obligations. Mr. Odio: Hopefully, Mr. Mayor, this is... Mayor Suarez: Plummer is in the middle of doing what he does for his clients, he can have the Senator handle that, that particular day. Yes. Mr. Odio: This should be the last big contract for the Orange Bowl. We're planning on opening September 15th. Commissioner Plummer: Thank Godi Mayor Suarez: September 15th. It'll all be open for the media to highlight, and Mrs. Kaminski will be there to test the seats once again, and see if they in fact installed the one that they brought. See maybe this one was hardened maybe by - and tempered. I guess that's the word. All right. Thank you and the two youngsters. Don't thank us. Just do it right. 6. PERSONAL APPEARANCE: REPRESENTATIVES OF MOSCOW BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT FOUNDATION. Mayor Suarez: On the item that is... We have a sort of double item here which has to do with midyear... Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: Do you remember the Russian people that are here? Mayor Suarez: No. Am I missing something? Commissioner Plummer: Yes. Mayor Suarez: Oh, this is Eladio Armesto's item? Commissioner Plummer: He gave you their card. 69 May 7, 1992 Mayor Suarez: Did you want to say something very quickly while the interested parties on the prior item leave, Mr. Armesto? Commissioner Plummer: He said he gave you his card. Mr. Eladio Armesto: Yes, I am here with two... Commissioner Plummer: Pull the mike up. Mayor Suarez: Did you give me the cards of the individuals? Of the visitors, the dignitaries. L Mr. Armesto: Two gentleman who came from Moscow, from Russia with love to Miami. They have been my guests for the last years, two days and they brought a letter from the mayor of Moscow to the Mayor of Miami. — Mayor Suarez: Very good. Thank you. Mr. Armesto: Mr. Alexander Ioffe and Mr. Vladislav Chr. Ksionzhek. Mr. Alexander Ioffe: (COMMENTS IN RUSSIAN). Mr. Vladislav Ksionghek: Mayor of Miami, excuse me to speak in Russian. We are going to give you congratulations from Prime Minister of Moscow government, Mr. Youriy Louzhkov. Mayor Suarez: That's a great title for the head of the local government. Prime Minister. I like that. Mr. Ksionzhek: That's Russian tradition. Mr. Ioffe: (COMMENTS IN RUSSIAN). Mr. Ksionzhek: We had a lot of interesting projects for Miami and we are going to... We have a lot of plans in Miami and we hope that our business will be helpful both for our and your countries. Let me give you a letter of Mr. Louzhkov. Mayor Suarez: Very good. Thank you. The letter reads in part: "It is my great pleasure to rise to the occasion and sincerely greet you and the townspeople of Miami. The City Hall of Moscow, along several unions and associations of businessmen has set up the Moscow Foundation for Small Business Support. Its board is chaired my Mr. Alexander Ioffe, who at the same time is my advisor on small and medium business affairs, and heads the corresponding Moscow city government council" etcetera. "The office of the Mayor of Moscow supports the project and I hope that you, Honorable Mr. Mayor, will render possible assistance and patronage. With best regards, Mr. Louzhkov, Vice Mayor of Moscow, Honorary Citizen of the City of Miami." Commissioner Plummer: Very nice. 70 May 7, 1992 Mayor Suarez: Thank you very much. This will be in the official records of our City, and Mr. Armesto will give you the official tour of City Hall. He will also explain what took place for the last two and a half hours so that you can see our particular version of "in your face democracy" as we call it here at City Hall. But he will never be able to explain everything that took place. Mr. Ksionzhek: Thank you. We like Miami. Thank you very much. Commissioner Plummer: How can he? We can't. Mayor Suarez: Thank you. Mr. Armesto: Mr. Mayor, what they don't understand, and it's something... Why Dade County is not Miami? They feel why we need Dade County. I have... Commissioner Plummer: We agree. Mr. Armesto: ... a hard time explaining what Dade County was for P!nd they said... Vice Mayor Alonso: We agree with that. Mr. Armesto: ... nobody knows Dade County. Everybody knows Miami. Mayor Suarez: Are you sure this is not your own editorial comment? Mr. Armesto: No, no, no. They asked me why, really, why everything is not Miami. And I had a hard time explaining them yesterday at Hamilton Bank. Why we have Miami Beach, South Miami and the 29 municipalities. They said that's crazy. Only one government. Miami. That's all. Vice Mayor Alonso: We agree with them. Mr. Armesto: I agree with that, too. Mayor Suarez: Very good. All right. Make sure you tell them the origin of the name, Miami, and the origin of the name, Dade, and he'll get another. Commissioner Plumrier: It's Miama. Mayor Suarez: And Miama. That's a strange animal there. Not the person who uses that. Just the name. 71 May 7, 1992 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7. (A) DISCUSSION CONCERNING POLICE DEPLOYMENT. (Note: Deferred to F - first meeting in June). (B) BRIEF DISCUSSION CONCERNING CAMILLUS HOUSE MOVE -- MAYOR SUAREZ REQUESTS ADMINISTRATION TO PROVIDE HIM WITH ALL PERTINENT INFORMATION. (C) VICE MAYOR ALONSO DEMANDS THE CITY MANAGER TO KEEP EVERY COMMISSIONER INFORMED ON ALL CITY -RELATED PROJECTS AND PLANS (See label 8). (D) MAYOR SUAREZ PROTESTS THE FACT THAT SOME OF THE MEDIA GAIN ACCESS TO INFORMATION SOONER THAN MEMBERS OF THE CITY COMMISSION. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mayor Suarez: Police deployment and the midyear review. Commissioners, I think one item may spill over on to the other at times, and I am not going to hold anyone to that sequence unless you, any one of you, in your line of inquiry believes that one is beginning to confuse the other, in which case you can hold the Administration to one or the other, as you might deem proper. Commissioner Plummer: For the record, Mr. Mayor, this meeting was well known at least what, six months in advance? Mayor Suarez: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: And that this meeting was scheduled thirty days in advance. Mayor Suarez: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: Am 1 correct, Mr. Manager? I don't know when the rest of you received this book, but it was received in my office on Tuesday, and I saw it yesterday for the first time because like most of us here, I have to work for a living, and if what we're doing about here today is going to be referring to this book, Mr. Mayor, I'm going to ask that this matter of deployment be deferred until all of us have had the time - and I don't know if you all have had the time - to digest what's in this book. I haven't, and because if we're going to be talking "apples to apples," I think we ought to know what's in this book, and further complicated by an officer who came into nay office today to change some numbers. Commissioner Dawkins: He changed the sheet, he didn't change numbers. Commissioner Plummer: He told me he was changing numbers. I'll accept he changed a sheet. Whatever it is. OK? But it was altered. Now, I'm just saying, on the record, if my colleagues have had the time to read this book, and digest it to be able to understand it, I am amazed that six months ago this meeting was known about and thirty days ago this date was set and we got this book on Tuesday and I saw it for the first time on Wednesday. I personally think this matter should be deferred until such time as we've had the opportunity to read and go over this book. 72 May 7, 1992 Oda AM Mayor Suarez: That happens to fit in with something that I wanted to do, not in derogation of the rest of the issue of deployment, which I think that we can go over and there's all kinds of questions, whether today or at another time. I have no problem waiting a little longer, but Chief at the meeting - and this is totally unexpected to you, although the matter has been mentioned a couple of times... Commissioner Dawkins: Second. I second J. L.'s motion for the point of discussion. _ Mayor Suarez: So moved. So seconded. Thank you. Commissioner Dawkins: Go ahead now, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: At a meeting yesterday with Mr. Chaplin from HUD (U.S. Department of Housing and Development), the issue of a safe zone in or about the Overtown/Park West protect once again came into discussion and I would ask you, depending on what we set the deployment discussion for - session for - to try to ascertain from Mr. Chaplin exactly what he means by that. Yesterday he never pinned 1t down, and what it would cost to try to implement it. At risk 1s over a hundred million dollars ($100,000,000.00) worth of federal, and state, and local monies, and it's been a little bit unfortunate. I have, in the past, sent memos and otherwise discussed here in Commission meetings the possibility that it would be funded from the tax increment district and we've had a lot of arguments about that, and discussions, got nowhere. At this point, I'm not worried so much about the funding because I would like to know more from the deployment side. What does it take, how would it be done, and what exactly is HUD asking for? And then the funding we'll worry about because I noted - and we'll get into that in a second - on the budget that you have roughly used, according to the Manager, fifty percent of the overtime and that is at the point that we got through fifty percent of the fiscal year, in which case that means you have two point three five million left, and who knows. I mean, there's other funding sources that we can maybe look to, including possibly tax increment district monies, which I'm also going to inquire about in a second, but I see Herb is ready with the answers on that. So could you kind of look at that and cut through the red tape of my trying to get Mr. Chaplin again, and see if he is not impressed with the fact that the Chief's office is looking at those parameters to Jefine for us what he means by a safe zone. I mean, we think that it's safe, you know. Obviously, he wants a very, very active surveillance to take place in or around that project, and he thinks that the developers are going to need that to complete their occupancy there. One of them is slightly over fifty percent, Herb, I think fifty-two, fifty-three percent and that's Mr. Cruz, and to the extent that those people have a disincentive from what they perceive to be crime in the area. Homelessness we know about. Homelessness we know. I think we know what we have to do, and that's another issue. But... Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, may I? Mayor Suarez: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: I'm a little concerned. I did not attend this meeting that you attended yesterday, but without divulging the name of the party who came to talk to me, 1t was their impression that you gave the impression that the Camillus House move was a matter of a week or two. 73 May 7, 1992 Mayor Suarez: In my innocence,.... Commissioner Plummer: The reason I'm asking is, there's something... Mayor Suarez: ... and optimistic view of the world, I have always felt that the Camillus House issue is around the corner. I don't think I said a week or so, but... Commissioner Plummer: But I guess my question is, how big is the corner? OK? Because if we're talking about, as this person interpreted, a week or two or a month, then obviously somebody around here knows something that I don't know. Mayor Suarez: No. As a matter of fact, I didn't and... Vice Mayor Alonso: I don't know that it... Mayor Suarez: ... today I got the latest report from the Manager and it coincided with what Mr. Bailey said to me yesterday, not in public, but it's exactly the same information, which is that we're still waiting for an appraisal on the property that they would be, in fact, leasing or leasing with option to purchase from us,... Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, I'm not going... Mayor Suarez: ... and there was no timetable... Commissioner Plummer: ... to divulge any of your secrets,... Mr. Cesar Odio: No. I can say this on the record. Commissioner Plummer: ... but let me say to, sir,... Mayor Suarez: I did say yesterday, by the way, if I may interrupt you, Commissioner to answer your... Commissioner Plummer: Sure. Mayor Suarez: ... question. That at other times, I have been totally pessimistic about this, but I think, partly because of statements you have made here, that we have to get this resolved, etcetera, etcetera, and for other things that have happened along the way, I have gotten the impression that we may be close to a deal. At least, I'm optimistic about it,... Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: ... but obviously until we have a vote up here, I'll not know. Commissioner Plummer: I hope we are, sir. I hope we're close to a deal because I would love to see it happen, but the point that I'm... Mayor Suarez: But the corner may be a big corner is what you're saying. 74 May 7, 1992 G Commissioner Plummer: ... trying to make, I guess more to the Administration than anything, is that you're doing all of this in a void. Without this Commission being aware, you could conceivably be wasting a lot of time, money and effort... _ Mr. Odio: Commissioner, let me refresh your memory, please. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Please do. — Mr. Odio: I explained to all of you that with discussions that came out of here to go back and negotiate with them, that we had made - and we sent you copies of the letters that have been sent to the brothers. Commissioner Plummer: Yes, sir. Mr. Odio: That letter was just replied yesterday. The Mayor asked me this morning that he had met... He told me he had met with Mr. Chaplin and he wanted to know about Camillus House. He said the only... Commissioner Plummer: Who is Mr. Chaplin? Mr. Odio: The HUD person. Commissioner Plummer: Oh, from Jacksonville. OK. Mayor Suarez: He's the regional director from the Jacksonville office of the Federal Department of Housing and Urban Development. Mr. Odio: And I told the Mayor, the only thing I can tell you at this point is that they, the board of directors of Camillus House, have not made a decision. They want to see the appraisals of the property we are offering and the value of it before they say yes or no to the proposal I told you we made and the letters we sent. Commissioner Plummer: All right. Well, what I'm saying is that... Mr. Odio: You want me to put on the record the proposal? Commissioner Plummer: No, no. You can come to me privately,... Mr. Odio: OK. Commissioner Plummer: ... Mr. Manager, because all I'm saying to you is the last time I heard from you in this matter was roughly a month ago, and I'm not even going to put on the record your comments, which I liked, by the way, but they were not incorporated in the letter which you sent to the brothers. Mr. Odio: Right, they were not. Commissioner Plummer: OK? So, I'm saying if that's the case, and the Mayor is giving some indications we're a month apart with me being... Mr. Odio: No. 75 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: in the center and I'm just asking, I'd like to be brought up to date. Mr. Odio: I understand, Commissioner. Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, I'd like to say, for the record, why the selective treatment that we have seen lately with this Commission? Certain members of this Commission are receiving information that some of us are not given. I resent that and this policy has to stopi It has to be given equally to every member of this Commission, and this is another of clear situations where we have seen... Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Sorry. Vice Mayor Alonso: ... over and over. This is a repetition of what we saw and what I referred last week, and I think, Mr. Manager, you have to understand that this Commission is formed by five members, and each of us has one vote equal to the next. And I think it's about time that we tell the Manager that he has to inform each and every one of us and not the Mayor and then Commissioner Plummer and not the rest of us, or then sometimes some of us, and not the rest. This is not a system that can continue in the City of Miami, and I think it has to stop todayl Commissioner Dawkins: How do... Vice Mayor Alonso: And I'd like to hear from the Manager what he has to say. Commissioner Dawkins: How do you stop it? That's what I'd like to know. Vice Mayor Alonso: By firing the Manager, if it takes so. Commissioner Dawkins: Ma'am, you can't fire the Manager with two votes. Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, then they'll have to explain to the public that they have elected five members of this Commission. Commissioner Plummer: Jesusl What did I start? Vice Mayor Alonso: Five members. But some of us has less power than the rest. Commissioner Dawkins: It's not a matter of... Vice Mayor Alonso: Because we are not given information that has to come... I think this is even illegal. Commissioner Dawkins: I don't think it's power, Madam Commissioner. It's a matter of having three votes. When he's got three votes, he don't need my vote and your vote, so we aren't told anything. It's just that simple, Madam Commissioner. And until the public understands that the Manager counts to three, one, two, three, and he forgets the other two Commissioners,... Commissioner Plummer: Uno, dos, tres. 76 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Dawkins: ... it's going to continue to go on. Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, maybe we have to pass - and I will ask my office to bring me copies of a resolution that I requested last week to be prepared by the Legal Department in which it states clearly that the City Manager has to notify each and every one of us of projects, plans and information, and it has to be brought to each and every one of us equally. Regardless of whether he thinks he has three votes or not. He is not supposed to be counting votes. He is supposed to be serving the public by providing information to all of us so that we can give an intelligent vote and make a final decision in representation of the citizens of Miami. And that's what has to be addressed. Commissioner Plummer: For the record, Mr. Mayor, my area of inquiry was that the last time I heard anything was approximately a month ago from the Manager, and your statements yesterday in which there was a thirty -day lapse in between, and I was merely inquiring as to had there been any change that I was unaware of. Now, if the answer would have been very simply from the Manager, very quickly, that hey, I've sent them a letter and I haven't heard from them, then that would... Mr. Odio: I need a clarification, Commissioner Plummer. I'm hearing from Commissioner Alonso that Mayor Suarez has no rights to ask me a question and that I will not answer that question to him, as you ask many times, and so Plummer and Dawkins... Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Manager, don't try to twist what I said. Mr. Odio: I'm not twisting anything, Madam. I'm just asking you a question. Do I have the right to answer any questions the Mayor or you or anybody else, the Commission would choose to ask me? Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor, were you the one doing the dealings with the Camillus House, and that's how it came and the misinterpretation that we have seen from Commissioner Plummer that actually he had serious concern when he brought the topic to the Commission. He had serious concern. It was, in fact, that you were the one doing the negotiations with the Camillus House, and it was just a simple question? - or I have missed the entire - and maybe we should play back the tape of what Commissioner Plummer had said and what you responded, because it was very clear to me that it was not on the basis of a question from the Mayor, that he has the right, as any one of us, to ask you one and a million questions. The point that is here in question is very simple. You have to inform all of us, and Mr. City Manager, this is not happening. Mr. Odio: I think I'm going to read the Charter so that when we are talking on grounds that... Commissioner Dawkins: Somebody bring the Charter out of my office. Mr. Odio: No, we've got it right here, Commissioner. Commissioner Dawkins: No, no, no. Bring mine. Because you may have reprinted yours. I'm going to read from mine. 77 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: I was not aware, and maybe I'm mistaken, that the Mayor in fact was negotiating for the Camillus House. My understanding, the meeting that took place yesterday was between a HUD official and City officials at which time the matter of Camillus House was brought up, and in fact the statement was made by the Mayor that it was around the corner, and that was the reason for my inquiry because the last I heard from the Manager was, like, thirty days ago. And around the corner, to me, don't mean too long from now. So I'm just putting it on the record. Mr. Dd1o: And the same thing you heard thirty days ago, they all did, they all have the same correspondence that we sent out, all five of you. Vice Mayor Alonso: The correspondence that was sent did not include, as Commissioner Plummer stated on the record, did not include this additional information that you are referring, and I did not meet with you about this subject or you came to provide information to me. I don't know if you did to the rest of the members of the Commission. Maybe because I'm a woman I'm supposed to understand the things less than the male members of this Commission, and if that is the case, I resent that very deeply, and I demand from you, Mr. City Manager, to provide to me equal information to the rest of my fellow Commissioners because I happen to be a woman, but one that can handle the information equally to the rest of the members of this Commission and I'm getting a little bit sick and tired to receive less than the treatment, and Mr. Mayor, in your capacity as Mayor of the City of Miami, I'm asking now your support and help to get the same kind of information that is given to you. Because I'm equal to you as a member of this Commission, and I don't think because I'm a woman, I should receive less information and this is becoming a system, and I deeply resent, and I would like to ask for your support in this issue. Mayor Suarez: You know, I voted for the prior motion that you had made on this issue because I felt that on projects, I think the way it was defined, that there could be a policy statement that required the Manager to inform the Commission as soon as practical of any new projects, etcetera. I do want to, and, of course, to the general proposition that you're stating that the Manager should keep all the Commission equally informed, I'm a hundred percent behind that proposition and it will do whatever you suggest that is in my power to assure of that. A couple of interesting things. One, that I think is appros, the last item that we were all upset about here, which is the one having to do with the Port of Hiami, I find - and Mr. City Attorney, this also could be a helpful insight for you - I find that, that gentleman up there and his partner in crime back there, Mr. Tanfani and Mr. Goldfarb, seem to be able to use the tools of State law and public records requests more effectively than we to find out what other jurisdictions are doing, whether it's the Port of Miami, Dade County, the State of Florida, the U.S. Attorney's Office, the State Attorney's Office, and that I don't think that there's ever been a single public records request of a sister jurisdiction or another jurisdiction by our City Attorney and our City Manager when our Commission 1s clearly... Let me take the Port of Miami proposal for the parks. A lot of us had heard about that being in the works. You know, little snippets of information had been getting to us. It seemed like no one was in a position, and I don't have the staff to be filing all kinds of public records requests. The City Attorney and City Manager should want to keep us apprised at least as early as they had the information, which was the Friday before the hearing, and which _. we were going to be 78 May 7, 1992 officially informed. Commissioner Plummer: Well, you see, let me you where that happens, OK. Mayor Suarez: Well it happens because they make the request. In fact I got a copy from... Commissioner Plummer: No. no. Mayor Suarez: ...the County Manager. The County Manager had the courtesy to send me a copy of their request, and of his answer the Friday before the hearing, which was set for a Thursday at the County Commission hearings. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: And for the rest of this Commission who had not had that presentation made, perhaps they had a lag time of 3 or 4 days in which this Commission did not have those renderings, and they did, and, by the way, the one that the Herald published was the worst of all the renderings. The one I had told those folks was the one that I think least illustrated what... Commissioner Plummer: What did you expect? Mayor Suarez: ...we wanted to do with the parks, but anyhow other than my own preference, that the incredible thing is that those renderings were in the Herald 3 or 4 working days before most of this Commission got to see them. I don't think that's right. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I think and I, as you know, do not speak Spanish, but it is my understanding that one of our colleagues, on this Commission, was on a radio program in which the following was stated. That he was aware of this project and had been working on it for three months, and that he was bringing this to this Commission and that, in fact, there was three votes. That is what was related to me. Mayor Suarez: I think that was in an article in the Herald... Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Excuse me. Mayor Suarez:... that reflected three Commissioners being favorable, generally favorable. Commissioner Plummer: Let me put the disclaimer. Let me put a disclaimer, Mr. Mayor. That is what I was told. Now that may or may not be true, OK. Mayor Suarez: Why do you want to rehash something that you didn't even hear yourself... Commissioner Plummer: Well, no, sir. You asked me about... Mayor Suarez: ...in a language that you don't understand. Commissioner Plummer: You asked me about the fact... as to we didn't know about it until the Friday before the meeting. When you have somebody on a 79 May 7, 1992 b •Y radio stating that he had known about it for three months... that's why when the Herald came and ask me how cane I... in so many words they asked me how I was so dumb that I didn't know about it, because I was the 1lason to the Grand Prix, and I didn't know about it until Ralph Sanchez asked me had I seen this project? And my answer was no. So I am just saying I think that's how these things happen. Mayor Suarez: And by the way, Commissioner, or Vice Mayor Alonso, it's interesting with the Downtown Development Authority... I hate to drag this into the discussion, but I think maybe it ought to be stated on the record. In the case of Mr. Luneta, we had invited him to the DDA (Downtown Development Authority) for a variety of presentations, I would guess no less than 10 times prior to the one that was made on this issue of the improvements to FEC (Florida East Coast) Bicentennial and he had never once attended. So we were having a bit of an access problem with Mr. Luneta. I am sure he could be here to explain it. I don't know that it's continuing now that he has a particular interest in land that belongs to the City. Maybe we have more access to him. Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, I am sure we will. Mayor Suarez: The last time that we had to deal with him I found him very accessible and that was when he was selling us, I am sorry, buying from us sufficient land to allow the bridge to come in to, again, City property. Maybe he has an enterprise that is so difficult to manage that he's not as accessible and available as we would like him to be. But I think that's partly the function, and I accept my responsibility in that regard, and also I need the help of City Manager and City Attorney to the extent, that by law, we can force him to give us information sooner to do that because it really was distressing to see it in the pages of the Herald before almost anyone in the community got to see it. We've heard from the Waterfront Board that they never got the chance to see it. I've heard from people in the Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce, particularly, a favorite organization of my colleague, J. L. Plummer, et cetera that they also didn't get a chance to see it until... but then on the other hand they shouldn't have a chance to see it until it was made available to the County and City Commissioners in a sort of joint presentation, so in that sense, that aspect of it, I think, was a good outcome. Commissioner Plummer: All right. Mr. Mayor, can we proceed? I think... Mayor Suarez: Yes, we have a motion and a second, I believe. Commissioner Plummer: ...a motion on the floor 1s to defer, at least, the police portion of 1t to a date...Do you want to make the date certain. Mayor Suarez: Yes, I would suggest possibly the second meeting in June unless you want to try to make it the last meeting in May, either one. So we can do it in the morning and not... Commissioner Plummer: That will be fine... Mayor Suarez: ...take up to much... Commissioner Plummer: ...with me. The last meeting 1n May would be fine. 80 May 7, 1992 El Mr. Odio: Yes, I beg you not to have... Commissioner Plummer: No. Ok, then first meeting in June. Mr. Odio: Because I have a... Mayor Suarez: Well the reason I was saying the second, and that's the one we have planning and zoning. All right, to the first meeting in June and the first item, please, the first so... Vice Mayor Alonso: So it will be June... Congnissioner Plummer: That would be June the 11th. Mayor Suarez: Do not schedule, Mr. Manager... Commissioner Plummer: Anything else for the morning. Mayor Suarez: Yeah, I mean, give us at least... Commissioner Plummer: That will give us June, July, August, September. Mayor Suarez: You want the entire morning or you want nine untill eleven... Commissioner Plummer: ...That gives us 4 months prior to budget. Mayor Suarez: Mr. Plummer, do you want the entire morning or you want nine to eleven, just in case? Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I would strongly suggest the entire morning. Mayor Suarez: OK. Your going to need that much time, then the entire morning of the first meeting in June, which is June the 11th. Commissioner Plummer: Like that the Manager can have the flexibility of putting items that are not necessarily timeframed... Mayor Suarez: OK. Commissioner Plummer: ...that anytime they can be heard. Mayor Suarez: But please don't schedule any of those before eleven. Make sure the people understand that for two hours, at least, we're going to be going into this issue. Is that fair? Commissioner Plummer: That's fine sir. Mayor Suarez: All right. So moved and seconded. Call the roll. 81 May 7, 1992 0 The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 92-274 A MOTION DEFERRING AGENDA ITEM 3 (PUBLIC HEARING CONCERNING POLICE DEPLOYMENT) 1.0 THE COMMISSION MEETING SCHEDULED FOR JUNE 11, 1992 AS THE FIRST ITEM OF SAID AGENDA; FURTHER REQUESTING THE CITY MANAGER TO SCHEDULE AT LEAST TWO (2) HOURS FOR DISCUSSION OF SAID ISSUE. Upon being seconded by Commissioner Dawkins, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr. Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso Mayor Xavier L. Suarez NOES: None. ABSENT: Commissioner Victor De Yurre 8. (A) GENERAL DISCUSSION CONCERNING SIX-MONTH REVIEW OF THE CITY'S FY '92 BUDGET. (B) DIRECT MANAGER TO PROVIDE DETAILS OF ALL EXPENDITURES CONCERNING. NET (NEIGHBORHOOD ENHANCEMENT TEAM). (C) MAYOR SUAREZ QUESTIONS CITY CLERK'S BUDGET LEVELS. (D) (Continued Discussion) DIRECT MANAGER TO INFORM EACH MEMBER OF CITY COMMISSION, IMMEDIATELY, OF ALL ISSUES, PROPOSALS AND/OR PLANS RELATING TO AND/OR AFFECTING DISPOSITION, DEVELOPMENT AND/OR USE OF CITY -OWNED PROPERTY AND ANY CITY -RELATED PROJECT, AS SOON AS HE IS INFORMED OF SUCH ISSUES -- REQUIRE MANAGER TO OBTAIN COMMISSION APPROVAL PRIOR TO ANY ACTION BEING TAKEN WITH RESPECT TO SAID ISSUES (See label 7). (E) AUTHORIZE COMMISSIONER DAWKINS TO HIRE AN INDIVIDUAL TO DEVELOP A CITY BUDGET NARRATIVE AND A LIST OF ALL CITY EMPLOYEES' SALARIES. (F) DIRECT ADMINISTRATION TO PREPARE BREAKDOWN OF EMPLOYEES EARNING OVER: (a) $50,000, (b) $75,000, AND (c) $100,000, ANNUALLY. (G) COMMISSION DISCUSSES ITS INTENT TO SET A CAP ON DEPARTMENT HEAD SALARIES. Mayor Suarez: Chief. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor... Mayor Suarez: Yes. May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: ... are we now going to speak to the budget? Mayor Suarez: Yeah. Can I? Commissioner Plummer: Sure. Mayor Suarez: Since I kind of left the que,�tion pending I want to have the Commissioners ask questions first, typically, but I left a question pending on the police overtime, which is one of the questions that prompted my memo of March 23. Is it a fair statement... by the way, you're the only department that is exactly, as of the middle of the fiscal year has exactly spent 50 percent of its budget. So either you fudge better, or you have a better accounting system, or more predictability in our allocation of resources, or one of them. In any event, I suppose, that congratulations are in order. Co7rmissloner Plummer: We'll deal with fudge on July the 11th. Mayor Suarez: Longueira, back there, is going no to all of those options. Which is 1t Lieutenant then that caused ... ah, he doesn't want to... He just wants to say what is not the explanation. He doesn't want to say what is the explanation. Chief, what about the overtime portion? I gather it is one of the few in which you have any discretion whatsoever. Chief Calvin Ross: What we have seen so far is very positive, in my opinion. As of May 2nd of this year, as compared to the same time frame last year, we've seen overtime down in the Investigations Division by five thousand plus. Mayor Suarez: Can you give me the total first? I understood that for the whole year it was four point seven million ($4,700,000.00). How much is the total? Chief Ross: The overtime expenditure as of 5/2/92, I show a figure of four million thirteen thousand six hundred and four ($4,013,604.00). Mayor Suarez: Spent or left? Chief Ross: That includes, that includes the overtime that was expended for NET (Neighborhood Enhancement Team). Mayor Suarez: So that's spent. How much is left of your budgeted amount? Chief Ross: Based on the amount of money that was set aside initially for overtime... Mayor Suarez: Right. Chief Ross: ...using that bottom line figure, we would be over. However, considering... Commissioner Plummer: They're already over. Mayor Suarez: Over the full year? Chief Ross: Yeah. 83 May 7, 1992 U Commissioner Plummer: Oh, yeah. Chief Ross: However there are some other considerations. The amount of money expended for NET, which is at this point $968,647.00. Mayor Suarez: Roughly a million dollars ($1,000,000.00). Chief Ross: That monies, that money did not come out of, or was not directed to the overtime budget, but to salary savings. Although we are attributing that to overtime. The salary savings, those dollars, would have been added into the overtime to increase the overtime. Mayor Suarez: Oh, you mean from salary savings from retirement et cetera. Chief Ross: Yes, sir. Mayor Suarez: That were not anticipated as part of the budget. Commissioner Plummer: That's been two weeks ago. Chief Ross: Salary savings not from retirements, but salary savings from those positions that were approved for hiring back in October 1 in the Police Department... Mayor Suarez: Oh. Chief Ross: ...that didn't occur for some time. Mayor Suarez: We have budgeted more positions than we ended up having, at that particular time, so we have a net savings of how much in the first six months of the year? Chief Ross: That was a net savings of one... Mayor Suarez: What you call salary savings. Chief Ross: ...absolutely, a net savings, in that category, of one point three million ($1,300,000.00). Mayor Suarez: One point three million ($1,300,000.00). Commissioner Plummer: Wait a minute. May I inquire, Chief, you telling me how much for the NET Program of the police phase of it. Chief Ross: Not as of to date or as of 5/2... Commissioner Plummer: Right. Chief Ross: ...first of May. Commissioner Plummer: Right. Chief Ross: Nine hundred and sixty-eight thousand... 84 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: Right. Chief Ross: ..* six hundred forty-seven dollars and sixty cent Mayor Suarez: No. s Commissioner Plummer: Because I have a bad habit, Commissioner, of talking about things I know for certain. Commissioner Dawkins: Well I know damn well they broke the glass in my car, son's car, in front of my house. Commissioner Plummer: And you should talk to those, sir. You should talk to those. 1 talk to what I know for certain. I'll give you a better one. My next door neighbor came screaming that a vacuum cleaner in her pool was stolen. I said, "What do you want me to do about it?" Commissioner Dawkins: A pool. A pool. Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. She called me back two hours... Commissioner Dawkins: How they going to steal a whole pool? Commissioner Plummer: ...and says, "I am not worried about it now." I said, "Why?" She said, "My neighbor, they stole the Mercedes." 85 May 7, 1992 EI Mayor Suarez: But not the whole pool? Commissioner Plummer: No. They had... I told her well they had to transport the vacuum, the pool vacuum in something, so they took the Mercedes. A man was killed yesterday. Mayor Suarez: Chief, back to the issue of how much of the overtime has been expended. By memo dated March 23, 1992, I suggested to the Manager, and I don't think I was wrong at the time, that the 1991-1992 proposed budget, and approved budget contained four point seven million dollars ($4,700,000.00) in estimated police overtime, or budgeted police overtime. Was that not a correct figure, Mr. Manager, when you got my memo dated March 23, 1992? I am glad that it was because the figure was obtained from your office, so presumably, it was correct. Was that the figure you understood you had budgeted, Chief, for the entire year? Chief Ross: Inclusive of salary savings, five point two. Mayor Suarez: Inclusive of... Chief Ross: Salary savings. Five point two. Mayor Suarez: But salary savings resulted from... Chief Ross: As a result of those positions that were approved for hiring as of October 1... Mayor Suarez: And that were budgeted as of October 1 of last year. Chief Ross: That's correct. Mayor Suarez: So you wouldn't know about those salary savings at the time. The amount that was budgeted for overtime was four point seven million ($4,700,000.00). Chief Ross: That's correct. Commissioner Plummer: Wasn't the salary set... I am sorry I didn't mean to get into that today. Wasn't salary savings also anticipated to be used for the hiring of PSAs (Public Service Aides)? - and at this particular point, as I have been informed, there's none yet gone on board. Mayor Suarez: Yeah, well we did go through that before. Chief Ross: That's not the case. Commissioner Plummer: There have been PSAs put on since October 1? Chief Ross: Yes, sir. There are PSAs who are currently employed, in place, and will be starting the academy May the 11th. They are already in place now. Commissioner Plummer: But they're not on the street working. 86 May 7, 1992 - i a Chief Ross: They're not dispatched on the street because they must formalized training. Mayor Suarez: How much training, Chief? How many days or weeks? Chief Ross: There's twelve weeks of training for PSAs. have — Commissioner Plummer: So that's... October, November, December, January, February, March, April and we're now in May, another twelve weeks, which would put 1t to May, June, July. How many in that academy? Chief Ross: The current academy is thirty. Commissioner Plummer: Thirty. And, Mr. Manager, you promised this Commission - how many PSAs before the end of this fiscal year? Commissioner Dawkins: That was deferred for the next meeting. Mr. Odio: We would have a hundred. Commissioner Plummer: No, one hundred and fifty. Mr. Odio: We have a hundred and twenty or so. Commissioner Dawkins: That's deferred to the next meeting. Mr. Odio: Well, the problem is we took some PSAs and hired them as police officers, and that's going to happen again come August, when we hire the new police class we will be hiring PSAs and making them into police officers. So then you have to replace the PSAs. Vice Mayor Alonso: Chief, you told us, in the last Commission meeting, and I think that Commissioner Dawkins 1s right, it should be part of June 11th rather than today. But you said that you used some of this money, some of the PSA and policemen, to provide for overtime for NET. Is that so? Chief Ross: That's correct. Vice Mayor Alonso: So you used that money for that purpose. Then it means that we will not have enough money to use for what it was budgeted for. Chief Ross: That's not correct. The... Vice Mayor Alonso: How do you divide the money and how do you make it double? Chief Ross: The approval for the positions... Commissioner Plummer: Fold it. Chief Ross: ...the approval for the positions, the Public Service Aide — positions, at the time that the budget was approved gave us, I think it was fifty-five Public Service Aide positions, but positions that would have brought us up to a number of ninety Public Service Aide positions. We were also approved, at that time, to hire thirty-five police officers. We were 87 May 7, 1992 also approved to hire twenty security guards. Those monies were in the budget as of October 1 to fill those positions. Even if we had put those positions in place October 2nd, the monies would have been there to fill or to pay for those positions. Those positions we immediately geared up to do background investigations. Commissioner Plummer has made the statement in the past, time and time again, as it refers to the inordinate amount of time it takes to do background investigations, and he's accurate, because it does take a lot of work and a lot of background investigations. So with the time frame that it took to bring these people onboard, not anticipating that we would even implement a NET concept, or NET Program, or need overtime dollars. Not anticipating this, and knowing that the budget is only a projection, we sought to bring aboard those personnel as quickly as possible. By the time we were able to get them aboard we had, at least, four to five months of time that we could account for salary savings. In other words, that money was there and was still in our budget to be used. Now,... Vice Mayor Alonso: But what you're saying is that when the budget was prepared you knew, quite well, that for at least half a year, you could not fill these positions and you were going to have that savings. Is that correct? Commissioner Plummer: It's ten months. It's not a half a year. Vice Mayor Alonso: It's almost a year. You knew that we were not going to use the money because, if you saying that we know quite well that the background investigations take this length of time, we were not going to use the money for one year. So we could have said let's not budget this money for this purpose because, in fact, we are not going to be able to use the money. Commissioner Plummer: Exactly. Chief Ross: That's not... Vice Mayor Alonso: So it was the wrong projection. Was it not? Chief Ross: That's not all together accurate too. Let me just say this. What we sought to do, initially, what the thirty-five police officer positions, and it's the same thing I stated in the last meeting, but the thirty-five positions, police officer positions, allocated in the new budget, we sought to bring aboard lateral transfers from other departments to our departments, which we would have been able to do almost immediately. In doing the background investigations, as we completed those investigations, we could bring those people aboard because they only required just a minimal amount of training, two weeks at best. We found out, out of the forty to fifty applications that we received, that only two were actually qualified to be hired. Had we found thirty-five police officers available, within that number, we would have hired them immediately, and you would have eliminated a great deal of that, so called, salary savings. It would not have been there. So had we thought, at the beginning of the budget year, let's project, because it's going to take us five months to hire, let's project and not have that money in the budget, then we could not have pursued going after laterals because there would have been no monies there to hire them whatsoever. It just so happened. 88 May 7, 1992 r -4 Commissioner Dawkins: Chief, you're losing me. We, and when I say we, that's all of us, budgeted for "X" number of police officers at the beginning of the year. Is that a correct statement, sir? Chief Ross: Yes, sir. Commissioner Dawkins: Now, at that time nobody told me that they were budgeting for lateral movements, new hirees, PSA transferees or what. They just told me that we are budgeting "X" dollars to bring the police force up to IV number of people. So, therefore, there had to be, and you weren't there, cause you didn't do this. OK. You were not the Chief. Al right. So, therefore, I can't hold you on... Commissioner Plummer: Yes he was. Commissioner Dawkins: What, for the new budget? This budget? When he got there this budget was prepared and given to him. Mr. Odio: He just made a year. He's been Chief since April of last year. Commissioner Dawkins: OK. Then you mean to tell me the budget was not prepared until he walked aboard in April, and you all handed it to him and said, here do it? Did you all hand him the budget in April, with nothing on it, and say, here is a zero based budget and you go from here, Chief, and figure out your budget. You all did that? No, no, no, no you answer that. Did you do that? Mr. Odio: This is his budget. Commissioner Dawkins: Damn. OK. No problem. Mr. Odio: You don't like the answer. That's his budget. It's his budget, Commissioner. Commissioner Dawkins: It is not his budget. It's the City of Miami budget. OK. Commissioner Plummer: And it means nothing. Commissioner Dawkins: It's not his budget. It's the City of Miami's budget of which you are in charge of. Mayor Suarez: And let me add to that. The whole point of this exercise, Mr. Manager, is that, let's say he took office in April, by April enough of the budgetary process for the next year should be happening that there would be quite a bit that, in fact, would have been given to him. He didn't just sort of all of a sudden start from scratch. If not, yeah, if not then the message is not filtering that we want to have a much earlier review of what is happening this year, and what might happen next year with the budget process. Chief, on the overtime, then if we have four point seven million ($4,700,000.00) budgeted... Commissioner Plummer: We're out. It's gone. 89 May 7, 1992 6 OIL - _ Mayor Suarez: How much have we used of that, and how much do we have left? - Chief Ross: In answer to that, but let me just say this in all due respect to Commissioner Dawkins and his question, and the Manager's attempt to answer that. I did have input into the ninety-one, ninety-two budget process. Commissioner Dawkins: That's not my answer. That was not my question. My =_ question was not, did you have input. My question to you was, was this your total budget done by you? That's what I asked you. Have you developed this total budget by yourself? Chief Ross: No it wasn't... Commissioner Dawkins: All right. That's all I asked you. That's all I asked you, Chief. Thank you. Mayor Suarez: How much was budgeted for overtime? How much have we spent? How much do we have left? - Police overtime. Chief Ross: There is a total of four point seven allocated for police overtime and we have spent, as of this point, four million thirteen thousand. Mayor Suarez: I understand that there may be other police overtime that has _= been paid by other sources. But I mean of this particular budgetary item, then you have roughly six hundred thousand dollars ($600,000.00) left. Commissioner Plummer: In a ninety million dollar ($90,000,000.00) budget they can hide it all. - Mayor Suarez: What happens if we need to spend more than six hundred thousand dollars ($600,000.00) in an emergency for police overtime? Where would you draw from for the last six months of the year? Actually, it's five months we have left, but the Manager tells me there is no way to get the April figures yet, so we're dealing with end of March figures. Chief Ross: Well, as of this date,... Mayor Suarez: All right. Now you can give me as of today. That's even better on this particular question. Commissioner Plummer: Maybe as of 5/2. How close do you want him to come? Mayor Suarez: Right. That's pretty... Chief Ross: Well, 5/2 my reference is... Mayor Suarez: ...close. Chief Ross: ...to 5/2, I am sorry. My reference is to 5/2. Mayor Suarez: So we got five months left. Chief Ross: Right. As of 5/2, the roughly one million dollars ($1,000,000.00) for NET overtime has not impacted on the original amount that was allocated for... 90 May 7, 1992 IWZX NP, 0 Mayor Suarez: I got you. Chief Ross: ...overtime. Mayor Suarez: You figured out some other source for that but... Chief Ross: In addition to that... Mayor Suarez: ...how much... Commissioner Plummer: Where you going to get it from? Mayor Suarez: ...of the overtime, line item budget is left? You said six hundred thousand, roughly. Where do we find monies if we, in fact, have to pay police overtime for an emergency? Chief Ross: In addition to that, there's six hundred thousand that is included in this figure that is also reimbursable from other agencies or other sources, that's other than the... Mayor Suarez: Such as? Chief Ross: ...police. Such as our HITDA (High Intensity Drug Trafficking) a grant money. Our officers are working in our street narcotics unit, in overtime capacity. Mayor Suarez: From what jurisdiction can we get ah... Chief Ross: That's part of a grant. And also... Mayor Suarez: And when does that grant money come in, for example, on that one? What do you tali it? - by the way. What was that program called? What was that program called? Chief Ross: "HITDA", that's a high intensity drug trafficking. Mayor Suarez: Does it have an acronym by any chance, like all of these? Chief Ross: That is it. Mayor Suarez: That's it? Chief Ross: Yes. Mayor Suarez: And what's the acronym? What are the letters? Chief Ross: HITDA. Mayor Suarez: Can you promise us, for the next fiscal year or so, not to have anymore acronyms? Chief Ross: Well, I didn't create that one. I am sorry. 91 May 7, 1992 I Mayor Suarez: We thought you were the kind of guy that would be very straight, you know, and give us these things with actually the complete names, and not create too many acronyms. Chief Ross: I thought you liked the impact. Vice Mayor Alonso: He has to work with his system. Mayor Suarez: You know. POPS (Push Out the Drug Pushers) and NEON (Neighborhood Enhancement Operation Network) and IMPACT (Intensified Mobilization of Police Against Criminal Tactics) and NET (Neighborhood Enhancement Team), and all that stuff. You know, it's getting to be worse than the army. Al right. Chief Ross: The a... Mayor Suarez: So you get another six hundred thousand dollars ($600,000.00) from a variety of law enforcement type grants. Any other sources that you have there? Any kitties that you might be able to draw from? Chief Ross: No. That's it. However, we must consider in that four million dollars ($4,000,000.00) that's been expended so far, that also includes roughly two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000.00) that we had to expend for the demonstration. The Haitian demonstrations that the Police Department deployed on. Mayor Suarez: OK. Chief Ross: That's included in this. Vice Mayor Alonso: How much was it? Mayor Suarez: Two hundred thousand, I think he said. I have no further questions of that department. Commissioner Plummer: What other departments, that you have, that figures overtime? Mayor Suarez: Well he's only budgeted just police and fire... I don't think we have budgeted overtime for anybody else. = Mr. Odio: Let me say something that I... Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor,... — Mr. Odio: ...on the record, Mr. Plummer please. The most, and we've been working with the courts... Will you tell him how much money we have to spend to go to court. And the more tickets and the more cases we bring in, the more overtime we create by having to go to court and follow up. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, you are fooling yourself. OK. Tell this Commission what you get back out of those tickets that are written? - if you want to use that as a cash register justice. 92 May 7, 1992 Chief Ross: Well I don't have... I don't have that figure. Commissioner Plummer: Well use the round numbers. Chief Ross: I don't have that figure. Commissioner Plummer: They keep, they keep the percentage... Chief Ross: It goes... well that's the general fund dollars, I don't have that figure. Commissioner Plummer: ...and we get a bone. OK. We don't get... When he tells you we get two million dollars ($2,000,000.00) in fines. That's not what we get. It's two million dollars ($2,000,000.00) total in fines. Mayor Suarez: That's like the gross, right? Commissioner Plummer: That's correct. Vice Mayor Alonso: So how much... Commissioner Plummer: See, you know, the point I am trying to make. It depends on the amount of tickets that are written. The point I am trying to make. No good business... Mr. Odio: We get two million dollars ($2,000,000.00) in fines a year. Commissioner Plummer: That's the total. Mr. Odio: Total. Commissioner Plummer: There's three million dollars ($3,000,000.00) worth of fines. Mr. Odio: Yeah. And then... Commissioner Plummer: They get a million dollars ($1,000,000.00) we get two,... Mr. Odio: That's right. Commissioner Plummer: ...and they do nothing but hold a court for it. OK. Mr. Odio: Right. Commissioner Plummer: But we have to pay our policemen time and a half... Mr. Odio: Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: ...minimum of three hours, if they're there for ten minutes. That's what we're paying. And that comes out of that two million that we supposedly get back. Right? Mr. Odio: And this is part of the overtime we show. 93 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, ,you've been 1n the private sector. Mr. Odio: Yes, sir. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Let me tell you, in the private sector, you damn well wouldn't do this. Budgeting overtime is an absolute budgeting disgrace. It means you have unknown factors that, Mr. Manager, you know the day this — budget is adopted that you have these problems. For example,... Mr. Odio: That's why we budgeted more than ever before. Commissioner Plummer: ...two hundred... What, it shouldn't be overtime. Two hundred and sixty-three thousand dollars ($263,000.00) 1s what the Police Department costs you for the so called, Coconut Grove detail. That's not unforeseen. You know that. But you are doing it on overtime. Why? ' Mr. Odio: Because they get paid time and a half. So you have to show it in overtime. Commissioner Plummer: It's not overtime. It is a legitimate, if you want, cost factor. Mayor Suarez: If it 1s anticipated... Commissioner Plummer: It is a known factor. Mayor Suarez: ...and budgeted for, why do we have to pay overtime rates? Commissioner Plummer: Exactly. Mr. Odio: Because in court the contract... - Commissioner Plummer: Because we're an idiot. That's why. Mr. Odio: ...the labor... Wait a minute. Mayor Suarez: Speak for yourself. Mr. Odio: The labor contract calls for time and a half in the courts. And you pay time and a half. Commissioner Plummer: But why do you have to use... Mayor Suarez: No, no, no. I understand as to the court system. As to the court system it is the times at which they are required to be in court. We're working with the administrative chief. It's not easy. Mr. Odio: The Grove detail... Mayor Suarez: As to the Coconut Grove, which is a night duty. On Friday, Saturday and Sunday night, and it is anticipated to be a night duty, 1t is planned to be a night duty, why are we paying overtime? 94 May ?, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: That's exactly what I've been asking. Mayor Suarez: Right. Chief Ross: Allow me to say this. I think that when we take a look at the numbers and utilizing the most recent IMPACT team as an example, nine hundred and sixty-eight thousand... Mayor Suarez: Let me just observe for the record, Chief, without necessarily interrupting you too much, that the head of the union is over here smiling. Of course he has no problem with the payment of overtime. He's happy with that. All right. Chief Ross: The impact of being able to put police officers on the street, in numbers, is far greater in the overtime capacity, than it would be if you were to take those same dollars, and hire officers to make the same difference. Mayor Suarez: OK. You've concluded, as the Manager suggested here at the last Commission meeting - nobody bought the argument, to tell you the truth, but I can see where you are coming from - that rather than hiring additional police officers to do that, it's easier to pay overtime to existing police officers, in the force, even though the rate is higher. It does not require a whole bunch of new recruits, et cetera, et cetera. And they are tested people and, of course, all those kinds of things. The problem with that is that it reaches, it leads you to reach the conclusion that police officers are kind of like you would say for pilots, but in the opposite direction, that police officers really can work a heck of a lot more than the normal shift, and by having them being paid overtime they get compensated when, maybe, they should be paid in the first instance, if they work more hours or something. And it just isn't a convincing argument to us. There's got to be a better way to do it, that it doesn't cost us time and a half. Chief Ross: I think... Mayor Suarez: I don't know that I can convince you and the Manager because you are both convinced otherwise, but... Chief Ross: Well, personally, as an administrator in the Police Department I certainly would like to see IV amount of police officers, over and above what we have now, in order to compensate for that. But I know that, that is not feasible. I know that the monies are not there to do that. I know that we need to make a very strong impact, in certain areas, on crime, and we can do that utilizing officers, for a given period of time, in an overtime capacity, to make that impact versus spending even additional monies to hire officers that would take at least... Commissioner Plummer: So far off. Chief Ross: ... 18 months of time to get them in place. Mayor Suarez: Yeah. There is a time lag issue. There's also an individual budgeting issue. Most of the police officers have an expectation of making "X" amount of money on a yearly basis from overtime, and they budgeted that for themselves. To change that system would require a variety of 95 May 7, 1992 L] modifications of those individual budgets but, at some point, you are not going to be able to convince this Commission, I don't think, that, that is the correct and wise way of proceeding. It really can not be. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I am going to tell you again, and the Chief and I have a disagreement, and I guess we'll have that disagreement all the way along as long as we can stay friendly. But I am going to tell you once again. forty percent of a policeman's time, or more, is done taking up writing reports. A fifty-five thousand dollar ($55,000.00) individual to the taxpayers, average cost. When it is fully legal and certified by the State of Florida to send out a seventeen thousand dollar ($17,000.00) person to do the very same thing. If we get a cadre, which I've been striving to do, of PSAs or by a different name, I think they should be CIS, Community Involvement Specialist, who are fully qualified to write reports, and we can free up a policeman's time, by 35, 40 percent and let them go out and address the crime issue, I think this City is going to be long ahead of the game. 1 am going to conclude simply by saying it was my understanding, from the Manager, that at the conclusion of this fiscal year we were going to have a hundred and fifty report writers, call them what you may. And Mr. Manager, I am telling you five months in advance of budget, don't come looking for this vote unless you comply with what nay agreement with you was last year of a hundred and fifty PSAs, it is a negative vote. OK? So I am telling you that right up front now. OK. Now when you're ready let's go to the budget. I am ready to go to the budget. Mayor Suarez: Yeah. I am ready for another department. Thank you, Chief. I've got a quick question before the situation changes on me, and it's directed at the City Clerk. Commissioner Plummer: Clerk. Mayor Suarez: Madame City Clerk, I noted, and I've not seized on this for awhile, but I am going to do it today. Commissioner Plummer: Oh, Oh. Mayor Suarez: I notice your budget is somewhere in the vicinity of the budget of the entire staff of the Mayor and Commissioners. A little bit over a million dollars. Why? Why do you need a budget of over a million dollars? I've also noted that today, as we speak, and I would like you to give the names and salaries of all the employees of your staff who are presently in this Commission Chambers, because I notice you have five of you. The City Attorney has himself and one other, and I would think that the City Attorney's role, and his functions, are a lot more important to the City, with all due respect, than the City Clerk's. So I need you to explain why you need to have five people here right now. I love them all, they are fine people, but I want to know who they are, what they do, and why they need to be here during Commission meetings. Ms. Hirai: Three of us, Mr. Mayor, traditionally, have covered the meetings. The other two... Mayor Suarez: Two,... 96 May 7, 1992 Ms. Hirai: ...individuals. Mayor Suarez: ...that includes you and one other. Ms. Hirai: Sylvia Lowman has always been... Mayor Suarez: You need three people to cover the meetings? What do they do? I know what you do. Ms. Hirai: Yes. Mr. Mayor, since our work is informational and we keep track of everything that happens in Commission meetings, when you have the wealth of information that we gather here, it is very important because we all do... Mayor Suarez: But you have a machine that tracks down everything that is said. No one is taking verbatim notes, that I am aware of. So what do the other ones do? Ms. Hirai: The other ones do the transcription. But the information... for informational purposes on tracking anything from the files, special requests, special projects. We do not go back to the tapes. The tapes are used only for transcription purposes. Mayor Suarez: Do you need to have five people during a Commission session? Ms. Hirai: The two individuals that you see here, other and apart from us three, are new in our staff. And we always during in a few months, we believe they should be trained by assimilating as much as they can from the proceedings and the individuals... Mayor Suarez: Who actually transcribes? Are any of the people here actually the ones that transcribes, listens to the tapes and actually types? Ms. Hirai: Yes, sir. One of them is Joanne. Mayor Suarez: That you introduced to me recently. Ms. Hirai: Yes. Barbara is going to be taking over for Mrs. Mendoza, who retired early. Mayor Suarez: And what duties will she have that require her to be here during a Commission meeting? Ms. Hirai: She's going to be in charge of the... retrieving of information from our files. She also expressed a desire, and I agree, that she would like to become familiar with civic activists and everybody who comes to our meetings, so that they associate the voices and the people. Mayor Suarez: Well, there's another way of solving that Madam City Clerk, and _ that is that you remind me, as 1 try to do to every single person that speaks, who is not on the City staff or the Commission, identify themselves when they speak from the public. We should not have to go hunting after people, finding out who they are, and otherwise have someone who is an official guesser of names of persons based on their voice. We should do that the simple way, which is, remind me to ask them to put their name in the record every time 97 May 7, 1992 a; s n,, s that they grab the microphone, and they change the presentation, so that we can get that in a very easy fashion. Ms. Hirai: Even when they do that, Mr. Mayor, we're interested in the correct spelling. Commissioner Plummer: Why aren't you. I don't understand Matty. Why don't you start at the top, I think, one of the things you should have said to the Mayor very quick. Of the million dollars 35 percent of that, Mr. Mayor, goes for elections. Ms. Hirai: Yes, I was going to just say that also. Commissioner Plummer: That's so indicated in the budget book. Ms. Hirai: One year it will be that amount... Mayor Suarez: How much is your total... Commissioner Plummer: And Victor and I are not concerned about that 35 percent this year. Mayor Suarez: ...personnel cost? How much is your total salary plus fringe benefits? How many staff do you have, including yourself in your office? Ms. Hirai: Twelve individuals, sir. Mayor Suarez: Twenty. Ms. Hirai: At this time eleven individuals. Mayor Suarez: Eleven. Ms. Hirai: But I would have twelve budgeted positions. Mayor Suarez: I would respectfully suggest to you, Madam City Clerk, that having five at a time at this Commission is not... is excessive. I would suggest to you that no City of similar size and similar budget spends that kind of money on the City Clerk's Office. I am pleased, by the way, with the effort of your assistant and yourself to try to get some of that money back by the new legislation that you've been pushing for where we would get some credit for the recording of a variety of documents, but I, let me just be clear on the record, do not now, 1n mid -year, see, a little bit past mid -year, see the need for that much staff and I think today is a particular manifestation of it. When you have five people here in the Commission Chambers. I don't think that is necessary for the kinds of functions that the City Clerk has to do under the Charter that I have read, and under the Laws of the City of Miami, and I am not going to approve a budget with over a million dollars ($1,000,000.00) for that particular function. I said that when I first got started for computers, and I think at least in the case of the Department of Computers, they have been reducing their overall expenditure, and I think they're under five million now. So at least they're headed in the right direction. Maybe some of my colleagues still feel they are a little bit over budgeted, I don't know. So let me just give you that warning. The end 98 May 7, 1992 is 140 U of the fiscal year I am going to look for zero based budgeting from you. The Charter, I think, calls for a City Clerk, and, obviously, you have to have equipment, and you have to be able to pay for elections, so there are some outside costs, but start... Ms. Hirai: Mr. Mayor, for the last fifteen years, if I may interrupt you, we have kept the same level. We have not increased even though we have had increase in responsibilities, and amounts of research and public projects. We have managed to keep exactly the same number of employees for all of those years. Mayor Suarez: Maybe it was over budgeted fifteen years ago and it's still over budgeted. I don't see the rationale for it. Maybe we'll have more time to explore it, and I will be checking to see what the people are doing in your office, and it concerns me to have five at the Commission meeting when the City Attorney is able to function with himself and one other. Ms. Hirai: On election year, Mr. Mayor, we have 35 percent more because of the cost of elections. When we have special elections that adds up... Mayor Suarez: There's no elections taking place right now and we have five staff members here, from your office, and I think... Ms. Hirai: Yes, two of them were in training, but they can go back if you so... i ZZZ Mayor Suarez: Well, I don't know, that's up to you. I... One transcribes, right. One of the two people who's here. Ms. Hirai: We have two transcribers, sir. We have two. One of them is a temporary, and Joanne is permanent, but relatively new with our office, and so is Barbara Brodbar. So we feel that for a few months, they... =a Mayor Suarez: How many people do you have that transcribe? I don't want -1 to... Ms. Hirai: Two transcribers, sir. Mayor Suarez: You need two transcribers? Ms. Hirai: Yes, sir. Mayor Suarez: And what is the typical salary of a transcriber? Ms. Hirai: She's making now twenty-two, twenty-one thousand, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Hat She ought to be a janitor at the Artime Center, she makes forty-three thousand. Mayor Suarez: What does the other transcriber make? Ms. Hirai: The other one is on a temporary basis. Around the same amount, sir. 99 May 7, 1992 Mayor Suarez: Those are essential functions of the City Clerk's Office. You got to have somebody to put in writing what comes out of the tape. So those are essential functions. The question is, why do you need a total of eleven people and a budget of over a million. I don't understand it. I will take more time at the appropriate moment. But between now and the end of the =_ fiscal year, so we don't surprise you, I'll tell you for my vote, no way I am approving that budget unless I see a justification for each and every single �- one of them. About the only one I network with a lot is Mr. Foeman on the issue of that legislation that you're pushing for, and, frankly, we have other people that can do that too in the City. We have paid a lobbyist, et cetera. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: You know I really want to make, and I am sorry the Manager is not here. Mayor Suarez: Where is the Manager? Commissioner Plummer: His right arm is here who does all of the numbers, and that's who I want really to hear. Mayor Suarez: Could you, ah, somebody track down for me please where the Manager is and why we can't have his presence here. Yes, go ahead I didn't mean to... Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I am basically going to make a short statement, and the Manager's heard this statement from me earlier today. I guess it basically comes down to the fact that after twenty-one years of serving on this City Commission, I finally this year reached a point in life in which the taxes on my house are more than you pay me to be a City Commissioner, It's a sad commentary. All we see around City Hall, and I know this is going to be stepping on some toes, is salaries are going up, benefits are going up, cost of goods are going up, and yet revenues are going down. Now anybody in business knows what that absolutely is spelling, and without going in to, at this particular point, but I am going to do it later, how do we sit here and justify, Mr. Mayor, and I am not demeaning, and I am not calling names, that we're paying a janitor a cost factor in excess of forty thousand dollars ($40,000.00) a year. Mayor Suarez: But what's the actual salary? - so we don't get too confiAsed on this,... Commissioner Plummer: No, no,no. Mayor Suarez: ...because I can see, you know,... Commissioner Plummer: OK. Mayor Suarez: ...in the Federal Government they talk about the twelve thousand dollar ($12,000.00) bolt or screw or whatever... 100 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: No, no. So you not misunderstand me and then I'll give you a copy of this, sir. The salary for round numbers is thirty. Mayor Suarez: OK. Commissioner Plummer: The other numbers... Mayor Suarez: So you don't believe we should ever pay a maintenance employee thirty thousand dollars ($30,000.00)? I... Commissioner Plummer: No, a custodian, sir. Mayor Suarez: Custodian. Commissioner Plummer: A custodian is primarily is a man who pushes a broom. OK. Now, so you know what the other additional monies are... Mayor Suarez: Thirty thousand. How many years in the job? Because there's got to be some... Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I have no idea. OK. But the other monies. Mayor Suarez: Thirty thousand for a custodian that's been on the job for twenty-five years... Commissioner Plummer: Can't be that long at the Artime... Mayor Suarez: ...might not be you know... Commissioner Plummer: Hey, well that... look... Mayor Suarez: I mean you got to give people some ability within a particular range of skills to improve their economic situation over time, you know, some seniority. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor... Mayor Suarez: I understand your point. Commissioner Plummer: I understand yours. All right. But here we have an Artime Center that is six hundred and what, Mr. Manager... six hundred thousand plus of subsidy. Subsidy. Mayor Suarez: I saw a smaller figure this time for a change I don't... Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, I am using the budget number, Mr. Mano, is it... It's six hundred plus. I am I correct? Mr. Manohar Surana: Four hundred seventy thousand. Commissioner Plummer: Sir, you.gave me... I am going to pull that piece of paper on you for the Artime Center of all costs of six -oh -six as I remember. Mr. Surana: Yes, sir. But there's a revenue against that expense. 101 May 7, 1992 4r _ Commissioner Plummer: But the total cost... Oh, OK. You are saying the subsidy is. All right. Mr. Surana: Subsidy is four hundred and seventy. Right. Commissioner Plummer: Subsidy is four hundred and seventy five thousand - dollars $475,000.00) and we are spending three hundred and ten thousand dollars (($310,000.00) in salaries. OK. Vice Mayor Alonso: When we are talking about the Artime, are we talking also - about the building and the offices adjacent to the Artime? Commissioner Plummer: No. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes we are. Commissioner Plummer: Not the numbers I have here. Mr. Odio: The subsidy is for the whole complex. Vice Mayor Alonso: So we are talking about the entire building. We are not talking only about the Manuel Artime. Mr. Odio: Yes. Vice Mayor Alonso: We are talking also adjacent property. Mr. Odio: Yes. -' Commissioner Plummer: Do you differentiate between the Manuel Artime Community Center, and the building? Do you differentiate between the two? Mr. Castaneda: It's the same property. Mr. Odio: It's the same property. Mr. Castaneda: The theater and the office building is under the same administration. Commissioner Plummer: Does the administrative aide have anything to do with the building? Does the grounds tender have anything to do... the cultural affairs coordinator with the building? The personnel services with the building? Mr. Castaneda: It's all under the same budget. Commissioner Plummer: Look, hey, we have salaries running with cost because, you know, Mr. Mayor, I want to tell you something, and I am going to continue tosay it, I don't care if people like it or not. You want to refer to salaries, but you've got to refer to the total cost to the taxpayers. Mayor Suarez: No, no. I just want you... 102 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: OK. Mayor Suarez: ...when you say it, say salary and perks or salary and associated costs whatever. Commissioner Plummer: It took me four times at Mr. Mano to get that scenario. You have an individual, in that particular thing, that's making a total cost to the taxpayers of seventy-three thousand dollars ($73,000.00) where someone is needing near half a million of subsidies. Mr. Odio: Commissioner, as I told you, he has been... Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, something... look, my bottom line, something has got to give. Mr. Odio: Yeah, but that... Commissioner Plummer: We are not going to continue to do this business without some damn serious consequences. Mr. Odio: The particular individual has, I told you, has seniority. He has been here for many, many years. In fact, at one point I think he was underpaid for what he was doing. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager,... Mr. Odio: I don't think... Commissioner Plummer: ...are you aware we cannot... Mr. Odio: I told you... Commissioner Plummer: ... wind up in a deficit? Mr. Odio: I told you what we could do with Artime. We tried to do it once and we cannot do it because I feel... Commissioner Plummer: Artime is subsidy... Mr. Odio: But let me explain why we haven't... Commissioner Plummer: Dinner Key is subsidy. Mr. Odio: Can I explain why we have a subsidy... Commissioner Plummer: Ousman is subsidy. Mr. Odio: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: Bayfront Park is subsidy. Mr. Odio: Knight Center. _ Vice Mayor Alonso: Knight Center. May 7, 1992 103 Commissioner Plummer: Knight Center is subsidy. Mr. Odio: Right. Marine Stadium is subsidy... Commissioner Plummer: The parking garage is almost a million dollars in subsidy. Mr. Manager, we can't stand it. That's why my taxes on my house surpassed... Commissioner De Yurre: I want you to know, for the record, that the Arena, as I leave it, makes money. Commissioner Plummer: Yes, sir, and I have proudly said that. And I'll proudly say it when Miller leaves. OK. Mr. Odin: There are certain buildings, Commissioner.,. Please J. L. let me explain this. There are certain buildings, that were funded by the Federal Government,... Commissioner Dawkins: That is my brother! Commissioner Plummer: You bet your gluteus maximus. Mr. Odio: There were certain buildings that were funded by the Federal Government to provide a service to the community. Artime is one of them. Artime... you have organizations that are leasing from us there that cannot pay rent. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager.,.. Mr. Odio: So you are providing a service. If you charge them higher rent... I have to give up my grant to pay for the rent. Commissioner Plummer: We can't. Mayor Suarez: Why do you argue that philosophy with us? Why don't you let us decide that. He's making a point... Commissioner Plummer: He can't continue... Mayor Suarez: ...that he thinks that, that is an excessive subsidy for a City that may be headed, at some point, for a shortage, which then, the only alternative, of which, is increasing the millage rate which we only have about half a mill to do, half a mill against a ten billion dollar dollars0,0($5 000 000.00) tax base, it's...Half produces, at att nos most, million dollar ($10,000,000,000.00) tax base, is five million dollars ($5,000,000.00), in my boo. You can multiply it any way you want, come up with whatever figure you want. And it's a very tight situation and the Commissioner's saying that he thinks that that's an excessive amount of money to spend on that. The philosophy of how much we charge in rent, if that's the only way in which we can reduce the deficit of the Artime Center, then your argument stands. You have to decide philosophically whether you want to charge rent. If there are other ways, Mr. Manager, to explore, or if your staff can come up with other =` 104 May 7, 1992 1 ways to reduce that deficit by maintenance, by attracting other events that pay, whatever, please don't hesitate to answer those questions. When he's finished that inquiry, though, I want to ask about my favorite huge item in the budget. Mano is just excited about answering about it. Mr. Odio: See I have a memo here from Dr. Lizaso and in order to alleviate the deficit and completely obliterate it, you would have to increase the office space in both buildings to eight dollars a square foot, rescind as of October 1st of 192 all present rental fees waivers on both buildings. This increase alone will yield a total amount of a hundred and sixty thousand seven hundred and sixty-eight... I have to recommend, against it, because we are... you are helping organizations that are helping the community to stay in business. Now if you take... if you raise their rent, which they can not afford... and I am for rents, raising anything, but T know the reality, they are going to come back around and try to get a grant... Mayor Suarez: That's one way to reduce the deficit. To increase revenues from the rent of the place... Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager... Mayor Suarez: ...for the people who are renting offices. Another one is to have more events that pay. Another one is to reduce costs. Another one is to see if we can use some employees that may be, as Commissioner Plummer is suggesting, maybe you have a custodian that has been there for many years. Maybe that's a candidate for early retirement. If that individual has, in fact, rights to a pension, hopefully, he or she does, et cetera, there's other ways. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, something has got to change. OK. And I am going to tell you right now, I told you before, and I am going to tell you for the second time, taxes are going to come down this year, and I am going to have a tax on my house, less than what you pay me to be a Commissioner. Put that in your hat. Now what does that mean? That means there's going to be some belt tightening around here. There's going to be some people that are not going to be replaced. There's going to be some items that we're not going to buy. But let me tell you, Mr. Manager, aside from taxes the most important factor on the people that I talk to is crime and drugs. OK. The other factor is taxes, and they're fed up. Mayor Suarez: Crime and taxes. Can I ask about special programs and accounts? Once again... first globally, Mr. Manager... Vice Mayor Alonso: Excuse me, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: Yes, I am sorry, Commissioner. Vice Mayor Alonso: I think that... Mayor Suarez: Vice Mayor. Vice Mayor Alonso: ...it's only fair that some of these plans for reduction in the operating expenses of the Artime be put on the record. Including the _t salary of some employees that are paid from this budget and assigned to other - locations. E= - 105 May 7, 1992 Mr. Odio: Yeah, we have... the brigade has a... there's an employee that is actually eleven thousand eight hundred and thirty dollars ($11,830.00), and then you have... Vice Mayor Alonso: One employee is assigned to the Brigade 2506 museum. Eleven thousand eight hundred and thirty, and another employee... Mr. Odio: No. Vice Mayor Alonso: ...is assigned to... Mr. Odio: No. c Vice Mayor Alonso: ...2257 Mr. Odio: No. Vice Mayor Alonso: ...N. W. North River Drive. Makes fourteen thousand four hundred and ninety-two. Mr. Odio: No, no. These are utilities* bo i oon,Z Know wny... Commissioner Plumper: Wait, wait, wait... Mr. Odio: Why are the utilities... Vice Mayor Alonso: The utilities are paid from the Manuel Artlme are paid... Mr. Odio: See at fourteen thousand... Vice Mayor Alonso: ...from this budget and goes to the other building. Mr. Odio: I don't understand why. Why is that? Vice Mayor Alonso: So the... Commissioner Plummer: What building? Vice Mayor Alonso: Twenty second... 2257 N. W. North River Drive. Mr. Odio: Those are... I have to check into that one. I've never seen that one. Vice Mayor Alonso: For what reason they take the money from the Manuel Artime to pay for the utilities in some other location? It amazes me. Also I don't think it's very realistic to say we can increase the price to eight dollars a square foot in that neighborhood. Do you think we can possibly do that? Mr. Odio; No. And if you look at the organizations that are paying rent there, Cuban Journalists in Exile, SALAD (Spanish American League Against Discrimination). 106 May 7, 1992 Vice Mayor Alonso: And every time that, that organization comes and is standing in front of us and tell us of the need and the services that they provide to the community, we take it into account. We waive the fees and what we do then in turn goes to the budget of the Manuel Artime. So we have to take all those things into consideration when we make the final decision. I think it's important to take this into account. Mayor Suarez: That a very... Commissioner Plummer: I'd like... Mayor Suarez: ...important facility to... Commissioner Plummer: ...an answer on that 2257 River Drive. Mayor Suarez: ...in an area of Miami that needs all of the activity. Commissioner Plummer: I'd like an answer on that. Mayor Suarez: Yes. Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor, if I may, before you move on, I'd like to introduce this resolution for what I had raised before. Mr. Odio: By the way, on the Artime Center two years ago, we had a deficit subsidized of nine hundred thousand so they've done a good job in reducing half... Commissioner Plummer: With the exception of the arena, everything else is subsidized as a requirement for public facility is concerned. Everything else. OK. I am telling you it's got to stop. It can't continue, Mr. Manager. It can't continue. Mayor Suarez: Madam Vice Mayor. Commissioner Plummer: The people are fed up. Mayor Suarez: You had an item. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes I would like to introduce the resolution that I refer before and it reads... and I... Commissioner Plummer: Ohl God, that's awful! Vice Mayor Alonso: ...move. It says, "A resolution directing the City Manager to immediately inform each member of the City Commission of any and all issues, proposals and/or plans relating to and/or affecting the disposition, development and/or use of City owned property, and any City related project as soon as he 1s informed of such issues, proposals and/or plans; further requiring the City Manager to obtain Commission approval prior to any action being taken with respect to said issues, proposals and/or plans." And I so move. Mayor Suarez: So moved. Do we have a second on the motion? 107 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Dawkins: Second. Mayor Suarez: Second. Any discussion? Commissioner Plummer: I would make a motion that we send this to the City Attorney and make sure we are not in violation of any of the Code, and schedule 1t for a public hearing on the meeting of June the lath. Vice Mayor Alonso: I think the City Attorney should know that this is not in violation of any Code... Commissioner Plummer: Have you seen it? Vice Mayor Alonso: ...because I checked with him and he has... Commissioner Plummer: Let me read it. Vice Mayor Alonso: ...given this to me and his approval, and I don't think it's... Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor, Commissioners all it simply does is really amplify the responsibilities of the Manager that's specified in the Charter. It just makes it a little more specific. A little clearer, but I don't think in any way it can be interpreted to say that it would be tantamount to any interference with the Manager's administration of the affairs of the City. Mayor Suarez: Thank you. Do you see it, Commissioner Plummer, as anything other than a formalization of the motion that was previously passed? Pretty much to the same effect. Commissioner Plummer: Mr., Mr... Mayor Suarez: Would you like because as a Commissioner... Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, as I see it... Mayor Suarez: ...not having had this in front of you you're entitled to more time on it. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I don't see anything here... Mayor Suarez: All right. - Commissioner Plummer: ...that he doesn't do now, as far as I know. Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, definitely some of us... Mayor Suarez: All right. Vice Mayor Alonso: If that is stated in the Code and is part of the City of Miami, some of us, have been given the kind of treatment that is unfair, and my only way to demand that this is done in fair basis and equally to every member of this Commission, is to pass a resolution and to ask for the support 108 May 7, 1992 0 of my fellow Commissioners and the Mayor. If I don't get three votes I will note that they are not in agreement and they feel that treatment should not be equal in this Commission, and then the general public also will have an opportunity to understand that we are not given the same treatment. So, that's all I am asking. Mayor Suarez: Very good. Commissioner Dawkins. Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. City Attorney, turn to page 12 Section 4 of the Charter, and let me know when you have it. You have it, sir? Page 12... Mr. Jones: Yes. Commissioner Dawkins: ...Section 4. Mr. Jones: I am under Section 4. Commissioner Dawkins: All right, D. Mr. Jones: D? Commissioner Dawkins: 4D. Mr. Jones: 4D. Commissioner Dawkins: Read that in its entirety for me, please. Mr. Jones: "Commission to be judge of its own election. Not to dictate appointments by, or interfere with City Manager. The Commission shall be the judge of the election and qualification of its own members, subject to review by the courts. Neither the Commission nor any of its committees or members shall dictate the appointment of any person to office or employment by the City Manager or, in any manner, interfere with the City Manager or prevent him from exercising his own judgement in the appointment of officers and employees In administrative service. Except for the purpose of inquiry, the Commission and its members shall deal with administrative service solely through the City Manager, and neither the Commission nor any member thereof shall give orders to any of the subordinates of the City Manager either publicly or privately. Any such dictation, prevention, orders or other interference on the part of a member of the Commission with the administration of the City shall be deemed to be a violation of the Charter and upon conviction before the City Court any member so convicted shall be subject to a fine not exceeding $500.00 or imprisonment for a term of not exceeding 60 days or both, and in discretion of the court shall forfeit his office." Commissioner Dawkins: In your legal, I mean, in your... Commissioner Plummer: Wait, wait, wait, excuse me... Commissioner -Dawkins: In your opinion, sir,... Commissioner Plummer: Where's City court? 109 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Dawkins: ...does that which you have... which Commissioner Alonso read, is that in any way in conflict with what you just read? Mr. Jones: The resolution that Madam Vice Mayor read comports with Section 16 which deals with the powers and duties and, as I indicated earlier, all this resolution does is really amplify, in terms of the broad based powers and duties, that are... It doesn't create any greater right or any part of this Commission. Commissioner Plummer: I don't agree with you, sir. Let me tell you. What you just read. I see a big difference because it carries criminal penalties, jail time. Hard time where this what she has proffered doesn't say what happens if he violates it. Commissioner Dawkins: Nothing happens. Mr. Jones: I think you're missing my point. My point is, is that... Commissioner Plummer: When you talk jail time, I don't give a damn about your point, I am worried about mine. Mr. Jones: Yeah. I think your talking about two separate sections. The section that I just read, of course... Commissioner Plummer: No, this carries no penalties. Mr. Jones: The section I just read, of course, deals with interference... Commissioner Plummer: Violation of that carries penalties. Mr. Jones: ...by the Commission in the affairs of the City Manager in terms of administering the City. What I am referring to under Section 16, it L'alks about powers and duties... Commissioner Dawkins: Section 16, what page is that? Mr. Jones: That's on page 18. Commissioner Plummer: Before you leave there tell me where is the City Court. They were abolished many, many years ago. Mr. Jones: There is no such thing. Commissioner Plummer: So then what does the Charter mean when it says City Court? Mr. Jones: Well, of course, that was years ago. Certainly I wasn't here... Commissioner Plummer: But where are we today? When Victor violates this Code who do we take him before? Judge Dawkins or Judge Suarez? You know, what good is our Code if it's not up to date? Mr. Jones: I don't think you would take him anywhere. I think what... The only time that, that would come about is if a citizen challenged it and, of 110 May 7, 1992 C C course, as I understand the court system now, the form of administration, undoubtedly, would probably go before the Circuit Court. Commissioner Plumper: OK. Commissioner Dawkins: Call the question. Mayor Suarez: Call the question, I mean, call the roll on the item. The following resolution was introduced by Vice Mayor Alonso, who moved its adoption: RESOLUTION NO. 92-275 A RESOLUTION DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO IMMEDIATELY INFORM EACH MEMBER OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF ANY AND ALL ISSUES, PROPOSALS AND/OR PLANS RELATING TO AND/OR AFFECTING THE DISPOSITION, DEVELOPMENT AND/OR USE OF CITY -OWNED PROPERTY, AND ANY CITY -RELATED PROJECT. AS SOON AS HE IS INFORMED OF SUCH ISSUES, PROPOSALS AND/OR PLANS; FURTHER REQUIRING THE CITY MANAGER TO OBTAIN COMMISSION APPROVAL PRIOR TO ANY ACTION BEING TAKEN WITH RESPECT TO SAID ISSUES, PROPOSALS, AND/OR PLANS. (Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on file in the Office of the City Clerk.) Upon being seconded by Commissioner Dawkins, the resolution was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr. Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso Mayor Xavier L. Suarez NOES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre ABSENT: None. COMMENTS DURING ROLL CALL. Commissioner Plummer: I really don't see what it accomplishes. it's in violation. I vote yes. I don't see 111 May 7, 1992 COMMENTS MADE AFTER ROLL CALL: Mayor Suarez: Mangy, back to the hot chair, Mr. Manager, as a global observation, twenty-three million dollars for a miscellaneous item, which is what I understand Special Programs and Accounts to be, sounds excessive. I have said that. I think you've agreed to it. Let me quickly just go through a few items by way of illustration. Mr. Odio: Just so you know, Mr. Mayor, we went from forty-four million before my time... Mayor Suarez: We're heading in the right direction. Maybe even have halved it from the time that you've been handling it, which is useful. But for an example, my eyes are beginning to fail me, but I can still see some of the fine print that you conveniently have... Mr. Surana: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: Yeah, I'm getting to that point. Yes. Mr. Surana: About nineteen million dollars is bookkeeping transfers. For example, we've got to make a subsidy for Solid Waste Department. I've got to budget... Mayor Suarez: With what? Solid Waste? Mr. Surana: Yes. Mayor Suarez: So why doesn't that come under the Solid Waste budget? Mr. Surana: No, that's the money coming... OK. Solid Waste Enterprise Fund... Mayor Suarez: Right. Mr. Surana: And they have a deficit... Mayor Suarez: Oh, you've got an enterprise fund for Solid Waste,... Mr. Surana: Right. Mayor Suarez: ... you've got the regular Solid Waste budget and you've got some item on Special Programs and Accounts... Mr. Surana: No. Mayor Suarez: ... that has to do with all of that. Mr. Surana: We don't have regular Solid Waste Department general fund. Mayor Suarez: Oh, you've got that as an enterprise fund. Mr. Surana: Right. 112 May 7, 1992 17 C Mayor Suarez: I disagreed with that, but I lost that battle. Mr. Surana: So we had to make a subsidy and that money has to... Mayor Suarez: It should be a regular departmental budget like any other. Mr. Surana: OK. We had to make a subsidy from general funds. I've got to budget somewhere. Commissioner Dawkins: You don't make a subsidy. You pay for services. Mayor Suarez: Right. That's a... Commissioner Dawkins: That's a garbage. That's a service. Mayor Suarez: ... very important service. In fact,... Commissioner Dawkins: You're not subsidizing that. Mayor Suarez: ... some people think it's the beginning of civilization when municipal government can at least pick up your garbage. Then Police, then etcetera, etcetera. Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but you know I get sick and tired of Jack Eads in Coral Gables telling me his millage is lower than mine. Commissioner Dawkins: Move to Coral Gables. Commissioner Plummer: No. When I find out that he gets three hundred and -- twenty dollars in a garbage fee that's not part of his millage, and that's one of the reasons his millage is lower than mine. Commissioner Dawkins: Oh. OK. I'll buy it. Mayor Suarez: All right. Vice Mayor Alonso: And also the house, it's the value of the houses in Coral Gables is higher. Mr. Surana: Mayor, I heard your concern. I'm going to work with the outside auditors and Accounting Department and we'll try to reduce it... Mayor Suarez: I wasn't even directing any questions at you yet. Mr. Surana: Oh. I'm sorry. Mayor Suarez: I just said get ready because I was just working on the Manager just now. I'm going to give him the general ones and you the specific ones. The general one is that, that fund be reduced and the items be allocated to the appropriate departments. I read that to be our obligation in the Charter of the City. Now,... And I think it's good accounting. Individual items. Just a few as way of illustration. Employee award. I see under Special - Programs and Accounts that's account number 920101. Modified budget twenty- three thousand. Expended as of March 31, 192, five thousand. Left to spend, - 113 May 7, 1992 f eighteen thousand. I'm not sure that it's the time to go into why these awards are given. You've got to have some flexibility if you're the City Manager to give some employee awards, I guess, for performance, but question whether that should be in Special Programs and Accounts, or that should be attributed to a particular department. If you don't know in advance which department is going to get an award, you would have to rationalize for me at the end of the budget year - I'm sorry, at the beginning of the budget year - why you need to have a floating discretionary employee award fund to use for any department that you want, Mr. Manager. Because I see it as one of my duties to require you to at least have a rationale for awarding these, and I don't think that twenty-three thousand floating around is the correct way. I think maybe each department should have a particular account, or you should give me the reasons why you give these, to what department, why, etcetera. Reserve for Severance Pay. Very little has been spent this year, presumably very few people have... Why is that? Why is it so little so far, and so much expected in the rest of the year? _ Mr. Surana: OK. This year we had a lot of retirees retire and for Fccounting =ti reasons, it was charged to each department needs this Special Programs and Accounts. Usually we don't know what departments anybody is goi:Ig to retire or leave... Mayor Suarez: I can't even hear what he's saying, Mr. Deman. You're supposed to be quiet if you're going to be in the Chambers, sir. If not, you can go outside and watch it on the monitor. Or, don't even watch it. You can go home. That's another alternative you've got. But you can do it any way you want. Yes. Mr. Surana: When I prepared the budget, we thought we were going to charge all the severance pay to Special Programs and Accounts. But when we finally did the accounting, it was charged to each accounting department. Mayor Suarez: OK. So ultimately, are you saying, by any chance, that you're going to move this and attribute it to the departments in question? Mr. Surana: Yes. Mayor Suarez: All right. We'll leave that for the moment. Unemployment compensation, you would think that would go, again, to the department in question. Latin Quarter, I have no idea what that figure means there in Special Programs and Accounts. Why... Vice Mayor Alonso: Say it again. Mayor Suarez: Latin Quarter, at the beginning of the year thirty-one thousand two hundred and thirty-four. Thirteen thousand three hundred and five expended. Seventeen thousand eight hundred and twenty-nine remaining. Why do you have a fund to the amount of thirty-one thousand two hundred and thirty- four at the beginning of the year for Latin Quarter? Consultation time, here. No idea. Commissioner Plummer: Are you... Where are you? Mayor Suarez: I'm reading from a... 114 May 7, 1992 Vice Mayor Alonso: He's reading from... Mayor Suarez: ... itemized list of Special Programs... Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah. Mayor Suarez: ... and Accounts that presumably at some point will end up totalling roughly twenty-three million dollars at the beginning of the year of which "X" amount has been spent already. Dade League of Cities, I can see where that has... You've got to put that somewhere, I suppose, but that's only ten thousand dollars. Vice Mayor Alonso: No, it's much more. Mayor Suarez: I see ten thousand. External audits to... Vice Mayor Alonso: I see here forty-two thousand. Commissioner Plummer: For what? Vice Mayor Alonso: Let me see. Florida League Travel, Florida League... I see... Mayor Suarez: Dade League I was saying. I was saying Dade League. Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, Dade. Ten thousand two hundred. OK. Fine. Mayor Suarez: Question for myself and I'll be interested in what the other Commissioners feel around budget time, whether we should be spending all of that for Florida or Dade League, and I'm sure we're going to hear from my colleague on nay left. But I'd rather not get into that now. I just want to tell you I've got a lot of questions about that, J. L. Commissioner Plummer: Well, would you give them to me in advance so I can get answers for you, please? Mayor Suarez: Yes. It's a very simple question. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Mayor Suarez: Why? Commissioner Plummer: OK. Mayor Suarez: Now is it worth it? And I'm sure you can make a good argument that it is. National League of Cities. I was actually suggesting the elimination of that item from the budget. I love than, they're helpful, but ' i h S C ' we re very act ve wit the U. . onference of Mayors and sanetimes you ve got to choose which one. The National League of Cities basically deals with - smaller cities, the U.S. Conference of Mayors with bigger cities. And we've been very effective with the U.S. Conference so that would be my suggestion, but you might feel otherwise, so I'll take your advice on that, too, and there's the... 115 May 7, 1992 Vice Mayor Alonso: Altogether we are talking about forty-two thousand. Right? Mayor Suarez: Forty-two for all the leagues? Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah. Dade, Florida,... Mayor Suarez: That may be correct. Vice Mayor Alonso: ... and National. Mayor Suarez: Yes. And Sister City, seventy-five thousand. I think that maybe we'll be seeing some of the consolidation of that with some of the other departments and programs. Commissioner Plummer: Yes. Mayor Suarez: Very good. Legislative Liaison, I think we all do that here at the dais, and you know how I feel about it, but I've got to convince at least two Commissioners. Nuisance Abatement Board. One hundred thousand dollars. Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Who has City car 4243? Would you move it, please? My secretary has to go pick up her son. Thank you. Vice Mayor Alonso: That amount was not in the budget before. The one the Mayor just mentioned. Right? Mayor Suarez: The Nuisance Abatement Board. I think that one must have been by special ordinance. Vice Mayor Alonso: It was. Commissioner Plummer: It was. Vice Mayor Alonso: We approved... The Commission... Commissioner Plummer: That's right. Two hundred thousand. Vice Mayor Alonso: No, no. But the hundred thousand... Commissioner Plummer: Two. Vice Mayor Alonso: I beg your pardon? = Commissioner Plummer: Two hundred thousand. - Vice Mayor Alonso: Two hundred thousand? _ J= Commissioner Plummer: Yes. Mayor Suarez: No, a hundred is what I see. A hundred. Vice Mayor Alonso: That's what I thought, too. 116 May 7, 1992 Mayor Suarez: It's a hundred here. Commissioner Plummer: The other hundred was setting up as far as offices and -a matters of concern. Yes, sir. Vice Mayor Alonso: Wait. Wait a minute. It was not part of the budget. Did = we approve the two hundred thousand? I have recollection of hundred thousand. (INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD) Commissioner Plummer: Two hundred. Vice Mayor Alonso: We did that? Mr. Odio: A hundred from Police and a hundred from Special Programs and Accounts. _ Commissioner Plummer: Remember the argument, Commissioner, about whether or not it should be under the Police Department, or under Building and Zoning or -_ where it should be? What I took before this Commission was the hundred —_ thousand originally established so that they could come out from under the —_ Police Department, the second hundred thousand. Yes, ma'am. That was approved and budgeted. - Vice Mayor Alonso: Could you get me copies of that? - so I will have it clear in my mind exactly how 1t went. Thank you. Mayor Suarez: What is the Fire Rescue item towards the bottom of the page? Towards the bottom of the second page. Fire Rescue six hundred and fifty-two thousand. Mr. Surana: That's the subsidy for Fire Rescue. We have a special fund set aside, a special Rescue fund. Commissioner Plummer: How much do we get from the Southern Bell franchise? Mr. Surana: Roughly, let's see... Commissioner Plummer: From the franchise for just Rescue. Mr. Surana: Right. One second. Mayor Suarez: And then go back to my question, please, when you finish that and answer why you have an item of six hundred fifty-two thousand dollars that cannot be put into the Fire Department budget. Mr. Surana: I guess we get roughly about one point five million dollars. Commissioner Plummer: That, Mr. Mayor, just for your edification is when we renegotiated the franchise, we got one percent, or a half a percent, strictly for rescue services which amounts to almost two million dollars a year. Mr. Surana: We get two percent. It goes to that... 117 May 7, 1992 0 Commissioner Plummer: Two percent. Mr. Surana: Two percent goes to the special revenue fund. Mayor Suarez: I realty suggest that you figure out a way to include both that and the Solid Waste in those departments' budgets, enterprise funds, whatever it is you call it. If I can't win the battle on changing the Solid Waste to a regular department, then at least put it in the enterprise fund as an entry in and an entry out, rather than in Special Programs and Accounts, and that would already bring you to a figure more in the vicinity of a little bit less than ten million dollars, which is still high for a operating budget of two hundred million, but it's a little bit more like a miscellaneous... Some of these are, in fact, miscellaneous. You wouldn't know where to put them all, but they're high. Let me say, since I mentioned the Fire Department. Chief, and without getting into the budget per se as far as the services, the last couple of weeks I've run into situations including the one with the highway patrol officer that was hit and run where our rescue unit, again was praised, complemented and the response time seems to be about as good as always, if not better, and I just wanted to extend that to you. It is not a budgetary item, so it's not all that relevant, I just wanted to bring that out. Chief Carlos Gimenez: Thank you. Mayor Suarez: Mr. Manager. Thank you, Mano, and hopefully you'll keep working on that and trying to put as many of those into regular budgeted items that are easy for us to explain to our constituents. You know, to have somebody say "What is that twenty-three million dollars that you all have in some kind of special programs and accounts?" and not be able to give them a simple answer is very embarrassing. Vice Mayor Alonso: That's the idea. Mayor Suarez: Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: Can I ask, Mr. Manager, give me an idea of what the City's contribution to the pension fund is going to be this year? - the total pension fund, including the Gates. Mr. Odio: Eighteen and nineteen million. Commissioner Plummer: Eighteen and nineteen million? Mr. Odio: Yes, sir. Commissioner Plummer: And the health and life insurance, what is that going to be for the year? Mr. Odio: Zero. Because... (INAUDIBLE BACKGROUND COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD) Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. What is the total? Because as I saw it... - 118 May 7, 1992 Mr. Odio: Oh, the total. Commissioner Plummer: .. in one of these budgets here,... Mr. Surana: What, the budget for health insurance? Commissioner Plummer: ... it comes to almost a total of about twenty-three million. Mr. Surana: Yeah, right. Commissioner Plummer: Has that changed? Has it gone up? Has it gone down in the negotiations? Mr. Surana: It's about... It's gone up about a million dollars compared to '91. Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: Yes, Commissioner. Commissioner Dawkins: I ask that we have a review of the budget. I was given some numbers to figure out for myself what you're supposed to do with them. Now, you and Commissioner Plummer have something that's more in line with a summary of a budget. I don't have this, but yet they give me this which tells me nothing but some numbers. I have sat here for five times and asked the Manager to provide me with a summary of his budget and how it operates. Each time, I get something like this, and I'm laughed at, I assume, because I'm supposed to be dumb enough not to know that this is not a budget summary. OK? Now, I would like permission from this Commission to hire somebody for five thousand dollars who can sit down with me and develop a budget summary with a narrative that tells me the same things that the Mayor just asked, and I can see it on paper. Because I'm tired of asking for it and can't get it. So I request that I be allowed to get somebody and the Manager pay five thousand dollars to develop me a budget with a narrative that says under disability salaries, what it is, who gets it, what they got each year. That's the only way I can be able to tell that what was budgeted was needed, what's left over and what have you. I can't do that. I cannot do that with this, and I'm tired of asking the Manager to give me a budget narrative that explains what you're doing in the budget. So I request and I'm... I request permission to hire somebody to develop a budget narrative for me and that the Manager, once it's developed, arrange a half a day meeting with each department head for me to go through the budget so that when the budget hearing comes, I know what I'm talking about. Mayor Suarez: I'll entertain... Commissioner Dawkins: That's what I would like. Mayor'Suarez: In the form of a motion, if you'd like. The Manager's... Commissioner Dawkins: All right. I would move that I be allowed to hire somebody for up to five thousand dollars to work with me and develop a budget narrative to break down the budget in narrative form with each object code, 119 May 7, 1992 0 how it was spent, where it went, how much is left, what percentage is used and let me know what is what. Mayor Suarez: So moved. In view of the fact of your long-standing relationship with Commissioner Plumper, your "blues brother," I suggest that, that come from his budget. Commissioner Dawkins: And what's developed will be presented to each Commissioner to use as he sees fit. I do not want it for my personal use. Vice Mayor Alonso: Exactly. I was going to say that. Commissioner Dawkins: But I am tired of asking for a... And this, Mr. Mayor, and all of you Commissioners; this is a mini -summary. This summarizes the budget, but it doesn't give you a narrative explaining what it is. The Mayor had to ask questions that a budget narrative would have explained and he wouldn't have had to ask. Mr. Odio: Well, in all deference, Commissioner, Mano Surana... The direct... Commissioner Dawkins: Wait a minute. I've got a motion. I have a motion... Vice Mayor Alonso: I second. Mr. Odio: OK. Commissioner Dawkins: ... of what I need, Mr. Manager. Mayor Suarez: Second. Commissioner Dawkins: That's what I need. That's what I need. Mr. Odio: We11, but I wanted to put on the record that the director of the budget went around each office and requested what information you wanted. He would provide in detail and it's up to him to... Commissioner Dawkins: OK. No problem. Mr. Surana: Commissioner. Commissioner Dawkins: I have a motion on the floor. Mayor Suarez: In my particular case, as long as you put that on the record, let me say that the call got to my other place of employment, where I make real money, not here, at five p.m. yesterday. And my answer was, you know, one of those things you can put one of those laughter boxes, you know. I mean, at five p.m., the last working day before the Commission session... I mean, I appreciate the offer, Mano. Maybe if I had invited you to dinner last night, we could have spent all night on this thing. But I had other things to do. Yes. Mr. Surana: Commissioner, I'll be glad to provide any detail the Commissioner requests. We have for each department justification for each line which was by each department. We have the finance report which shows 120 May 7, 1992 how much money is budgeted, how much is spent by any given time, and I can put together all the package if you want to see all the paper work. We have it. Vice Mayor Alonso: Sometimes the amount of responsibility that is placed on this Commission is, each and every one of us, to inquire, research, analyze, investigate, I think it's well beyond the line of duty. I think that it's only fair what Commissioner Dawkins is asking because at the end, it's our responsibility for the times that we asked things that we will have to put, not only a full time day of work, but twenty-four hours a day work in order to be able to obtain all of these things that at times are needed to make final decisions in this Commission. Mayor Suarez: OK. Moved and seconded. Any discussion? If not,... Yes. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga. I don't know if this is appropriate, but go ahead and try it, sir. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Is this a public hearing? Commissioner Dawkins: I don't want that. I want five thousand dollars to hire me somebody. OK? That's all I want. Mayor Suarez: Don't argue with the procedural aspect. I've let you speak. Go ahead. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Is this a public hearing? Mayor Suarez: It sure looks public to me. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: OK. I'm going to cite from a French philosopher, Thoreau, that it will tie in, because you people know the experience I went last Tuesday... And Thoreau did say "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it's because he hears a different drummer. Let him stick to the drummer, to the music he hears no matter how measured or far away." And now I am not in a position to discuss any details because that huge booklet if you people, Commissioners, who are supposed to represent the citizens of Miami, did not have time to digest it. I cannot digest something from the air where I only have three pages. Yet I read in the paper last...two weeks ago, that the Mayor of the City of Miami gave a speech, and unfortunately I was not present, at the Omni Hotel. Thank God I didn't have to pay the... Mayor Suarez: I've got extra copies of the speech. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Well, thank God I didn't have to pay the thirty-five dollars to hear you, Mr. Suarez,... Mayor Suarez: We had a... Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... where you did say... Mayor Suarez: We had a reduced rate. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... that we have... 121 May 7, 1992 { tM 7N 1 Commissioner Plummer: And the food wasn't that good. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: OK. You gave a public speaking about the situation of the City of Miami and you gave a clean bill of health. And yet I know that you are an engineer, that you are an attorney... Mayor Suarez: That was the headline 1n the newspaper. I didn't say that. But go ahead. ;' ni Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: But I did not know... _i ' Mayor Suarez: I generally feel that way, though. -� Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: I did not know that you were also a medical doctor. i Mayor Suarez: As my colleague, Dawkins, just said, I mean, what else is the Mayor supposed to do? I'm not going to say we have a sick city, you know. _ But go ahead. - Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Well, furthermore, and I have said it here many times and I, again, love to cite Shakespeare. And I know that Mr. Odio doesn't like that I mentioned Cesar here, but I think that this Administration... Commissioner Plummer: There's some around here that want to bury Cesar. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... 1s the merchants of deception. From what I have heard here and the questioning that these honorable Commissioners have given the City Manager and the few comments that I have heard outside, this Administration basically is a lack of full disclosure, not to the citizens, to the Commissioners. So I have to conclude that if the Administration is silent to the Commissioners, this is worse than a lie, and I have said here over and over and over again, let's have full, fair and equitable disclosure. It's about... And I hope that I will not have to repeat it again... Commissioner Dawkins: I hope not. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... because you Commissioners are trying to do the best job you can. But don't come to the citizens and say that we are in top shape, a clean bill of health when that is not the truth, the truth and nothing but the truth. We here start these meetings with the pledge of alliance... Mayor Suarez: Allegiance. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Allegiance. Well, I don't even know the wording because I don't like to say words that sometimes I don't really... You... I go... Mayor Suarez Sir, it's called the Pledge of Allegiance. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: OK. Mayor Suarez: It's called the Pledge of Allegiance. Finish... Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: After I have read this... 122 May 7, 1992 Mayor Suarez: Finish your remarks. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: My remarks... Mr. Ruben Avila, Jr.: Mr. Mayor, his time expired. I'd like to speak, too. Mayor Suarez: I think... Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: You may answer. Mayor Suarez: I think that your time has in fact expired under the City Code. All right. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: We11, we have here... I have seen here with all too little specifics, the budget people get in there a million three. The Mayor and the Commissioners get a million dollars and I have found out that there is an individual who earns out of the City, the Mayor's office, sixty thousand dollars a year, and I don't see him coming every day to work at the Mayor's office. And his name is Juan Garcia. Could you explain me how can you justify this situation of the citizens of Miami? - we... Even our shoes are broken, our "bolsillo" is broken, pockets are broken... Commissioner Plummer: Our what? Vice Mayor Alonso: Pockets. Commissioner Plummer: Pockets. Oh. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: .. and then you keep people paying sixty thousand dollars a year, and I don't see him coming here every day. Where, why and give a full disclosure about the... Where is Mr. Juan Garcia? Did he pass away and is receiving his pension now? Mayor Suarez: Sir, you made a request, public records request, on that and it was answered to you, I think, in the last day. You have all the documents. You can look at. Commissioner Plummer: He's in the "montana" of Colombia. He's with the little burro picking the coffee beans. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: But where is he physically? Mayor Suarez: That's in the documents that you requested. Go ahead. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: No. No. Mayor Suarez: Complete your remarks, sir. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Well, with this type of information, I don't think I can add or subtract anything. - Mayor Suarez: All right. f, - '' 123 May 7, 1992 .1i 3 Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Except that you people, not you people, because there are some very questionable and inquisitive Commissioners, and I think that the more time we go deep, deeper, the deeper we will go, you people go, the more "cifarra" you will find. Commissioner Plummer: "Cifarra." Mayor Suarez: All right. Thank you for your comments, sir. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Thank you very much. Commissioner Plummer: "Cifarra." That I know. Mayor Suarez: Have a seat. Have a seat, Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: No, no, no. Yes, but let me... Commissioner Dawkins: Yeah, that's your business. Commissioner Plummer: "Cifarra." See... Mr. Avila: Mr. Mayor, my name is Ruben Avila. Commissioner Plummer: If nothing more, I have learned more what "cifarra" means. - Mr. Avila: My name is Ruben... Commissioner Plummer: About everybody else. Mayor Suarez: J. L., please. Mr. Avila: My name is Ruben Avila, my address 3603 1st Street. Mayor Suarez: Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga. Commissioner Plummer: "Patate," be quiet. Mr. Avila: I'd like to ask this Commission in reference to this gentleman over here. This is My third time I come over here. He was kicked out of the Commission in Dade County. He insulted the Mayor of Dade County. He insulted -_ your Commissioners, and this is a joke. This is a circus. This is a... Every time he comes.over here, there's a lot of problems in the City of Miami, you - people got a lot of problems, and you're still giving this guy time. I'd like to ask this Commission, or any of the Commissioners and the Mayor to ban this man from here. Because according to... Commissioner Plummer: Can't do it. Mr. Avila: ... City Charter, he's disrupting every time this Commission. I'd like... Mayor Suarez: He gets very close to disrupting our proceedings almost every time. 124 May 7, 1992 Mr. Avila: Well, I want to ask... Mayor Suarez: I don't know that we can bar him... Mr. Avila: I want to ask any of the Commissioners... Mayor Suarez: ..o forever and ever. Mr. Avila: ... if the Mayor doesn't want to do it, I want to ask any of the Commissioners to come and vote to ban this man out of here. Mayor Suarez: OK. Thank you, Ruben. Mr. Avila: And I'd like to see that today, if it's possible. Mayor Suarez: Thank you, Ruben. I think the City Attorney would say that to ban him forever and ever is probably something we cannot do under the Charter or the Code. But... Commissioner Plummer: look at this way. We got rid of Fanatto. Mayor Suarez: He comes very close each time to being disruptive and to... Mr. Avila: Mr. Mayor, he does that in every bank meeting. He does that 1n every Commission... Mayor Suarez: I know he buys... He has a few shares of stock... Mr. Avila: ... and he's using the law and he's using you people, and he knows the law. He knows he cannot be banned, but every time he comes over here, the way he starts talking, you, as the Mayor of the City, you can tell him to get out of here. And once he gets arrested three times, he can be banned. Commissioner Plummer: Career criminal. Mayor Suarez: I'm going to take up your suggestion in a meeting that I'm going to have privately with the Manager and the Chief to see what the most effective way is of making sure he does not disrupt the proceedings. You're entirely right on that. If anybody has any other suggestions by ordinance, but I don't think that we can do that. Mr. Avila: Under City Charter... Mayor Suarez: Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga, have a seat, sir. You're about to test our system of stopping your disruptions of our meetings if you get up to the mike one more time, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Mr.... Mayor Suarez: And make sure that, Mr. Manager, there's an officer to escort him out. He's not... Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: No, I'm leaving. Don't worry. 125 May 7, 1992 low. r, g - — Mayor Suarez: All right. He's not being recognized. So have a seat, sir. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: I was not going to talk. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, through you... Mayor Suarez: Sir. -- Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: I was not going to talk. Mayor Suarez: You're not even being addressed. So just grab your papers -� and... _q Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, through you, I am... Mayor Suarez: ... do whatever you want to do. Yes. 71 Commissioner Plummer: Hello, Dolly. jji Mayor Suarez: Yes. - Commissioner Plummer: I am requesting of the Administration on the budget... Commissioner Dawkins: Hey, I have a motion on the floor. Commissioner Plummer: Hello, Doily. — Commissioner Dawkins: I have a motion on the floor, Mr... _4 Commissioner Plummer: What is your... Mayor Suarez: Yes, let's vote on that. Commissioner Plummer: What is your motion? y Vice Mayor Alonso: Call the question. _ Commissioner Dawkins: That I be allowed to hire somebody... — j; Mayor Suarez: He had the motion on that issue. -� Commissioner Plummer: As long as I'm the consultant and get the five thousand — dollars, I'll vote for that. - Mayor Suarez: '.So moved and seconded. Since you just made that statement and ! we interrupted the motion that wasonthe floor, I do want to say one thing. — Today, for a change, Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga, in my estimation, had one pearl of — _j; wisdom, which was the quote, which I believe he said was from Thoreau. If it _ +; is, I'm very interested in that quote. It's a very good quote. is Vice Mayor Alonso: Very good one. 126 May 7, 1092 a Mayor Suarez: I don't think Thoreau was a Frenchman, but other than that, we can vote. Yes. Call the roll. Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, and all joking aside, I am... Mayor Suarez: Sir, you're not recognized. Yes. Commissioner Plummer: I am voting for the motion. I would ask my colleague, as a matter of courtesy, that any and all papers which are developed that he share with the rest of this Commission. Mayor Suarez: I think it has to be. Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, he stated that in his... Commissioner Dawkins: That was in the motion. Commissioner Plummer: I am sorry. I didn't hear him. Mayor Suarez: I think it would have to be done that way. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Dawkins, who moved its adoption: RESOLUTION NO. 92-276 A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO ENGAGE THE SERVICES OF A CONSULTANT TO PREPARE A NARRATIVE DESCRIPTION AND ANALYSIS REPORT OF THE CITY BUDGET FOR = THE CITY COMMISSION IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED - $5,000.00; ALLOCATING FUNDS THEREFOR FROM _ ACCOUNT NO. - - 92010-270; FURTHER AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO ENTER INTO THE NECESSARY AGREEMENT(S), _- IN A FORM - ACCEPTABLE TO THE CITY ATTORNEY, TO IMPLEMENT SAID -; SERVICES. - (Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on - file in the Office of the City Clerk.) -E Upon being seconded by Vice Mayor Alonso, the resolution was passed and adopted by the following vote: _= AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins ={ Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr. Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso =- Mayor Xavier L. Suarez NOES: None. ABSENT: None. _ 127 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I, through you, am asking of the Administration for two separate items. Number one, so that there is no misunderstanding, I am asking this that I want a list of all employees who are a cost to the taxpayers of, number one, a hundred thousand dollars, number two,... Mayor Suarez: That's salary plus... Commissioner Plummer: Total cost to the taxpayers. Mayor Suarez: ... associated benefits and expenses. Commissioner Plummer: OK? I'm asking it in three categories. A hundred thousand, seventy-five and fifty. That's just in case you need clarification, that is salary, the car allowance, the twenty-four hour cars, pension, group insurance, Workmen's Comp, FICA (Federal Insurance Contribution Act), all costs to the taxpayers. I would like a copy. Commissioner Dawkins: Did my motion carry? Mayor Suarez: All right. Commissioner Plummer: And let me tell you, Mr. Mayor, the reason I'm doing this. It was extremely revealing when that was asked to be done by the Dade County School Board and they found out suddenly that they had a hundred and twenty-eight administrators making more than a hundred and seven thousand dollars cost to the taxpayers a year. Amazing. Commissioner Dawkins: And they had twenty something making ninety some... Vice Mayor Alonso: It's not really that amazing when you see the salaries, you know that they have about forty, fifty percent benefits you have to add to the salary. So, it's... Commissioner Plummer: Cost to the taxpayers is what I'm saying. OK? Mayor Suarez: All right. Commissioner Plummer: And I... Vice Mayor Alonso: All of it is cost to the taxpayers because they provide the money. Mayor Suarez: Mr. Manager, the famous, infamous account called "Contingent Fund Official Function Accounts." May I assume that all of the money in there has been spent for the current fiscal year? Mr. Surana: On contingent account, almost everything is gone. Yes, sir. That's monies... Mayor Suarez: What is your title? What is your title, Mr. Surana? Mr. Surana: Assistant City Manager and Director of Department of Budget. 128 May 7, 1992 r Mayor Suarez: OK. Now I'm going to ask the question - keep in mind that your title, among other things, is Director of the Office of the Budget - and give me a specific answer to a question. Has that fund been expended? And if not, how much is left? Don't tell me almost all. I mean that doesn't make any sense for a budget person to say that. Give me the doggone figures. That's like saying we've got a little money here, we've got a little money there. The famous quote about a billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you're talking about some real money. While you look for that, Mr. Manager, may I assume that this will not be budgeted for next year? This "Contingent Fund Official Function Accounts." Mr. Odio: Well you know what that is? That's the tables we have ordered to purchase, functions... Mayor Suarez: May I assume that this is not going to be in the budget for next year? Mr. Odio: I'm going to have to ask the majority of the Commission to... Mayor Suarez: All right. As of now, you are going to consult the Commissioners to see if they'd like to have this kind of a fund for next year. Mr. Odio: Let me repeat what it is. You have official functions that you need to buy tables for and other functions that the City has to be represented. That's where we buy it from. Mayor Suarez: Mr. Manager. I'm not going to question the past use of this fund... Mr. Odio: If the majority of the... Mayor Suarez: ... but let me say most the time when we are invited to attend official functions, we're not charged for that attendance, and to the extent that we are, maybe from time to time, the Manager's office needs to allocate a small amount of money. But I hope that's not what this... What was it initially? What was the budget of this item initially at the beginning of the year? Mr. Surana: Four hundred sixty-five thousand. Mayor Suarez: Now much? Mr. Surana: Four hundred... Contingent account? Mayor Suarez: Yes. Mr. Surana: Four hundred sixty-five thousand. Mayor Suarez: Contingent Fund, slash, Official Function Account. Mr. Surana: Oh, it's... Mayor Suarez: No, that was right. It was four hundred some thousand dollars. 129 May 7, 1992 Vice Mayor Alonso: Really? Mr. Surana: Special functions, seventy-five thousand. Mayor Suarez: Contingent Fund, slash, Official Function Account... Mr. Odio: Seventy-five thousand. Mayor Suarez: ... was the name of a line item on the budget. Was it not? Mr. Odio: That's seventy-five thousand dollars. Mayor Suarez: I didn't come up with that name. Because I was going to ask. The next question was going to be who the hell came up with that name? I know I didn't. One of you guys came up with that name. I don't think it's good accounting practice, to tell you the truth, so I'm not going to blame it on the accountants. We've got a CPA (Certified Public Accountant) back there, Mr. Garcia. So I've got to blame somebody else. Now many CPAs do we have in the room, Mr. Manager? Other than Mr. Garcia? Anybody else? We still basically have Mr. Garcia, a police officer. You've got one of your members who's a CPA, right, Al? You don't know the fellow's name? Two? We've got a few lawyers, a few CPAs in the Police Department. We don't have too many in the rest of the City. All right, sir. Mr. Surana: Those two accounts is five hundred thirty thousand dollars. Mayor Suarez: I hope it is etched In your memory forever, because from my perspective I will not ever vote for a budget that has five hundred and thirty thousand dollars allocated to Contingent Fund Official Function Accounts. OK? From one vote. So at least remember the figures so you know how much I objected to it because of the amount, and, again, let me restate most functions that we're invited to, we're not expected to pay and I don't see that as a justification for the portion of it that reads "Official Function Accounts." Contingent Fund, it is not Contingent Fund if it's something that is... I think that categorization is awful, and I had thought, Mr. Manager, that you had indicated to me that you were looking to save this money and eliminate this account. Mr. Odio: Again, you know the problem was... That account three years ago was three million dollars. And we have been reducing and reducing and reducing. You have to look at the whole account. What else is incorporated there. Mayor Suarez: This is the old straw... Mr. Odio: The Official Functions is only seventy-five thousand dollars. Mayor Suarez: The old straw mdn. Set it up so you can knock it down... Mr. Odio: No. No. It's... Mayor Suarez: trick. Mr. Odio: No, Mr. Mayor. 130 May 7, 1992 x� Mayor Suarez: It was worse three years ago. Now it's down to half a million bucks of money that sort of pffftl All right. Mr. Odio: Let me tell you what is included here. These are prior... If you want to list them and not in the Contingent account, I'll be glad... Mayor Suarez: I am ready to vote for that to be zero. I just want to warn you. Mr. Odio: What we have taken out of the Contingency Account is to... Mayor Suarez: It is important that it be done in a way that all of us have an opportunity, Mr. Manager, to review with you what that account is all about, and I'm warning you, in midyear most of the funds have been used... Mr. Odio: May I... Mayor Suarez: It was worse three years ago. Now it's down to half a million bucks of money that sort of pffftl All right. Mr. Odio: Let me tell you what is included here. These are prior... If you want to list them and not in the Contingent account, I'll be glad... Mayor Suarez: I am ready to vote for that to be zero. I just want to warn you. Mr. Odio: What we have taken out of the Contingency Account is to... Mayor Suarez: It is important that it be done in a way that all of us have an opportunity, Mr. Manager, to review with you what that account is all about, and I'm warning you, in midyear most of the funds have been used... Mr. Odio: May I... Mayor Suarez: ... I think, and it is... Mr. Odio: May I explain, Mr. Mayor? Mayor Suarez: ... not fair to have that when the citizens of Miami need a variety of other services. Mr. Odio: When the... Mayor Suarez: If you go to the specifics of it, you get into the issue of who requested what. I don't want to get into that. Mr. Odio: No, I don't want to. Mayor Suarez: Frankly, I understand if you have an account of that sort, and you're a member of this Commission and somebody makes a request of you, you're going to make sure you get your fair share of it. Mr. Odio: What... I mean, what are you... Mayor Suarez: And I know that, that's what is going to happen. I don't want to go into that. I didn't ask... Mr. Odio: I was going to ask you something, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Suarez: I asked prospectively, but I wanted to know if there was anything left in it in case we could use it for... Mr. Odio: There's a thousand eight... Mayor Suarez: ,.. other purposes. Mr. Odio: There's one thousand eighty-three dollars left. Mayor Suarez: One thousand eighty-three dollars. Mr. Odio: That's right. 131 May 7, 1992 Mayor Suarez: Do you have any idea how much... Vice Mayor Alonso: One thousand... Mayor Suarez: And eighty-three dollars. Mr. Odio: Right. Mayor Suarez: Do you have any idea how much... - Vice Mayor Alonso: From the four hundred? Mayor Suarez: .* was left... Out of five hundred and thirty thousand. Do you have any idea how much was left on March 23, 1992, when I wrote my memo? You wouldn't have that handy, would you? Mr. Odio: I need to explain this to you. If you see the lists of... When you vote... Let me just pick on one. On the Haitian -American Foundation, that was something that we did not have budgeted before. He comes here, he requests fifty thousand dollars. It comes out of here. Or anybody else for that matter that were not budgeted prior to the budget being approved, so you had a contingency account for... Mayor Suarez: I propose for next year that we have no... Mr. Odio: What do you want to call it? Mayor Suarez: ... such contingency fund. Nothing. Zero. Special Program and Accounts. If you want to have a Reserve Fund, I think pursuant to a motion previously made here, that should never be less than six million dollars, if I remember correctly. Presumably that means we have six million dollars in the bank for an emergency, in our operating accounts not otherwise - God, I'm about to say the word, I couldn't believe it - not otherwise encumbered. You have won an argument over me, Mr. City Attorney and company who use that, and the financial people. I have seen that there is a definition that says you can use it that way. He's happy now. He beat me on this one. Encumbered. Not otherwise allocated or committed. Encumbered. All right. Please, for one vote. Zero. I don't think it's justified. I particularly don't think the Official Function Accounts is justified. I know what that is. We're buying tables to functions. We're subsidizing all kinds of organizations, some of which are religious. Be very, very careful with that. I respectfully submit to my colleagues that, that should be eliminated. That seventy-five thousand on that and the rest of it should be placed either in'a reserve account, and if you think you need to have a contingent fund, a classic contingent fund, which is what I think the reserve account 1s, or Special Programs and Accounts. You can have a half a million dollars in there, if we happen to have a half a million dollars. If not, I suggest you just don't budget for it. OK? It's not an emergency account, which is what a reserve account is supposed to be. Members of the Commission. I have one last question. In my memo of March 23, 1992, which was directed to you and the Manager, I pointed out a provision in the City Charter which says that we, the Commission, decide the salaries of our department heads. Does anyone have any particular feeling about trying to implement that provision a little bit 132 May 7, 1992 better than we have in the past? We're basically - I think the Manager as part of the budget gives us the salaries of department heads, and just sort of we approve it, the entire thing or not at all. Would any of you want to include that in the Commission Awareness... Commissioner De Yurre: That includes what? - all department directors... Mayor Suarez: All department directors. - Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, excuse me. I think if you research, you r will find that, that category is all unclassified personnel. Mayor Suarez: Oh, yeah. They're definitely unclassified. There would be all kinds of discretion as to... Commissioner Plummer: We will adjust the budget, excuse me, salaries of _— unclassified. Mayor Suarez: Yes, but we do it globally as to all department heads, and I read the Charter as saying that we should specify the salaries of each department head, and I think that means we can do it individually. And... _ Commissioner Plummer: All we do is, if we don't approve the budget that the Manager presents, then he has to go back and redo it. Mayor Suarez: No, but I've got another suggestion on a system to use. I would suggest that we apportion the departments in accordance with the Commission Awareness classifications and have each of you who head each one of — those categories make a recommendation no less than thirty days before the end of the fiscal year as to what the department head in that department should be making to the Commission as whole. Commissioner Plummer: You're talking about unclassified? Mayor Suarez: They're all unclassified. Commissioner Plummer: No, no. No, no. Mayor Suarez: Department heads is what the Charter... Commissioner Plummer: Oh. Mayor Suarez: ... gives as the power to... Commissioner Plummer: Are you speaking to all unclassified positions? Mayor Suarez: No, department heads. Commissioner Plummer: ... or just the department heads? Mayor Suarez: Where are you getting this unclassified thing in your head? Department heads, directors of departments, in accordance with the City Charter. 133 May 7, 1992 t Commissioner Plummer: That's fine. I see nothing wrong with that. The problem I'm saying to you is, we control it anyhow. If we don't approve the budget... your recommendation. Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, we were not exercising... Mayor Suarez: We have been doing it in a list that the Manager prepares, you approve it or you don't approve it. We don't go to each one, and I'm suggesting a procedure by which we can carry out this function that's in the Charter a little bit better by having each of you make the suggestion as to the particular departments you're overseeing. I'm not overseeing any specifically under Commission Awareness. So I would get your recommendations, along with the rest of the Commission, and vote on it. Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, what we can say is we agree with the salary. If we feel there should be any changes, then perhaps make the suggestion. If we make none, it's understood that we agree with it. Mayor Suarez: And you are empowered, I believe, Mr. City Attorney, are they not, to meet with the specific person who happens to head that department in proposing that the salary for next year be "X" amount and getting that person's input? Right? Why are you laughing? I thought it was pretty... Mr. Jones: You want to meet now? No. Mayor Suarez: We do it with you, because under the Charter we also said... Mr. Jones: Yeah, well it was a public meeting. Certainly I mean, you had... It's clear in the Charter... Mayor Suarez: That doesn't run afoul of any powers of the Manager for a Commissioner to ask the department head to report to him or her and then in the process of that conversation, among other things, discuss what the correct salary should be for their recommendation. Vice Mayor Alonso: I mean that's the only way that we can really make a judgment to arrive to a conclusion of what the salary should be. Mayor Suarez: I don't know any other way of doing it. Mr. Jones: You have the power to do it. Mayor Suarez: There we go. Thank you. Does any Commissioner want to make that in a formal motion or... Vice Mayor Alonso: Do we need to... Mayor Suarez: If not, I'll move... Vice Mayor Alonso: ... when it's clearly understood that it's within our powers? Mr. Jones: It's clearly within your power under the Charter. 134 May 7, 1992 OMA" Mayor Suarez: Can I suggest that those recommendations be made at least thirty days before we vote on the budget? Vice Mayor Alonso: Sure. Mayor Suarez: OK? All right, Thank you, folks. Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. City Attorney, that does not in any way... Mayor Suarez: Conflict. Commissioner Dawkins: ... infringe on the Manager's duties and responsibilities. Mr. Jones: No, Commissioner Dawkins, the Charter is very specific in saying that the Commission shall set the salaries of department directors. That's clear. Commissioner Dawkins: I read it, too, but I just needed a legal opinion. Mayor Suarez: Very good. I have nothing further. Commissioner Plummer: What happens if a recommendation comes in less than what they're presently making? Commissioner Dawkins: Then they either take that or leave. Commissioner Plummer: Huh? Commissioner Dawkins: They either take the reduction or quit. Isn't that what you said? Commissioner Plummer: Are you willing to put a cap on that of a hundred thousand dollars, maximum? Commissioner Dawkins: No. Commissioner Plummer: Oh. OK. I'm asking. Commissioner Dawkins: No. Commissioner Plummer: I'm asking. Mayor Suarez: Well, if you could separate the benefits - because the package for benefits is a bit complicated - and give me... Commissioner Plummer: I separated it by a hundred thousand dollars. Are you willing to separate it? Mayor. Suarez: Well, I'm willing to vote right around there, because I think that if you take the usual percentage of benefits and add it to salary, you're talking about no salaries higher than about seventy thousand, and... Commissioner Plummer: You want to set a limit on that. I'll go with that. 135 May ?, 1992 Mayor Suarez: And I'm inclined to... Commissioner Plummer: You want to set a limit of seventy thousand dollars? - salaries. Mayor Suarez: Absolutely. Absolutely. Commissioner De Yurre: For what? Vice Mayor Alonso: What? Mayor Suarez: Department heads. Department directors. Commissioner Plummer: For department heads. Vice Mayor Alonso: What are you saying? Commissioner Plummer: Let's give some guidelines. Mayor Suarez: Absolutely. Commissioner Plummer: No, seventy. Mayor Suarez: Absolutely. Commissioner Plummer: That and as my colleague says over there, if they don't want to... Mayor Suarez: Absolutely. Yes. Commissioner Plummer: ... accept a reduction, they can leave. Mayor Suarez: Absolutely, yes. Commissioner Dawkins: And get somebody who lives in the City of Miami. Commissioner Plummer: Hey, lets go with it now. Let's don't "pussyfoot" around. "Piccolo Pete," make your motion. No, he's "Piccolo Pete." He knows who I'm talking about. Mayor Suarez: I know you guys have a lot of nicknames up here. I never know who's who. Commissioner Plummer: You want to set a maximum salary of department heads? Let me hear it. Vice Mayor Alonso: Seventy-five thousand. Commissioner Plummer: How much? Vice Mayor Alonso Seventy-five. 136 May 7, 1992 } Commissioner Plummer: I don't know. I'm just asking. You know, and if they... Vice Mayor Alonso: I think in all fairness, I think we should take a little bit of time and come back and in the next Commission... Commissioner Plummer: That's fine. - Vice Mayor Alonso: ..0 meeting come out with a proposal and tackle the K- situation and address this issue and make a formal decision that we are coming — back with a suggestion. Commissioner Plummer: OK. That's fine with me. Let's just don't "pussyfoot" around. Let's do it. Mayor Suarez: By the way, that could be... Commissioner De Yurre: A department head is a director. Commissioner Dawkins: Yes. Vice Mayor Alonso: As a matter of fact, I was in favor of this long ago and I couldn't get anyone to go with me. So I'm pleased that this is happening. Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but my taxes didn't' exceed my salary. Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, we are not worried about you. You're... I don't cry for you. Commissioner• Plummer: I am. Mayor Suarez: I know may left side here is excited about this prospect. May I hear from the Commissioner... Commissioner Plummer: As my former colleague Mayor says, it depends on whose ox is getting gored. - Mayor Suarez: Commissioner De Yurre wanted to say something. Commissioner De Yurre: I would imagine this doesn't include perks and benefits. -f Commissioner Plummer: No, no. Salary. - Mayor Suarez No. That's why I separated it. -- F -'' Vice Mayor Alonso: Salary. Salary. Commissioner De Yurre: However, we're talking basically heads of department or directors of departments. Is that... Commissioner Plummer: Oh, no. That's where we're going to start. Mr. Odio: No, the Charter says clearly, department directors. - 137 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: I understand. That's where we're starting. Then we are going to go from there. Mr. Odio: OK. Now... — Commissioner De Yurre: But we're talking about this. We're talking about it = deals with department directors. Mayor Suarez: Right. .� Commissioner Be Yurre: Is there any department director that makes more than seventy-five thousand? Mr. Odio: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: Oh, good Godl. Yes. Commissioner Be Yurre: Director. Director. Commissioner Plummer: Yes. Mr. Odio: Directors, ,des. Commissioner Plummer: Start with Police and Fire. Commissioner Be Yurre: OK. Mr. Odio: Yes. Commissioner Be Yurre: Well, are you talking about the Chief? Both Chiefs. Mr. Odio-, Yes. Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. Mr. Odio: Yeah, they are department directors. Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. They're making... The Chief is probably up... Commissioner Be Yurre: Yea. Ninety something. Commissioner Plummer: ... in the what? - ninety-six, ninety-eight thousand. Mr. Odio: No. He's not making that much really. Commissioner Plummer: How much is he making? MrV Odio: I have to look, but it's less than that. Commissioner Plummer: Well, how much does the Fire Chief make?- And he's right here,'he can tell us. Mr. Odio: Eighty-seven. Ninety-three. Ninety-three. 138 May 7, 1992 Commissioner Plummer: Ninety-three. Hey. Let's go. I'm ready. Commissioner Dawkins: Fish or cut bait, huh, J. L.? Commissioner Plummer: I'm ready. Mr. Mayor, can I have a personal privilege? Mayor Suarez: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: Before Carl Goldfarb leaves. Mayor Suarez: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: Before the world comes down on me, I want to show you why nobody believes The Miami Herald. OK? And I said that long before Jorge Mas ever got here. They're talking about - and they speak with split tongue. They have nothing in the American version, but in E1 Nuevo Herald, "Protesta Contra J. L. Plummer." OK? Now what they're protesting is my brother. But they said the City Commissioner, J. L. Plummer, is what those people were protesting. I mean, like I'm not a known factor around this town. OK? Now the second point I've got to get off my chest, Mr. Manger, I want Code Enforcement, I have a picture here of Carl Goldfarb living in a tree on Coral Way. I insist that Code Enforcement, who really never do anything, investigate this scenario of Carl Goldfarb living in a tree on Coral Way, and report back to this Commission of what his fine will be. Channel 4 comes on in four minutes and I ain't missing that tonight for the world. Mayor Suarez: No, I think that alternatively to this, I think we ought to grant him a variance to reside there permanently. Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. =- Commissioner Dawkins: No. No. Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. Vice Mayor Aionso: No way. _ Commissioner Plummer: No variances. Vice Mayor Alonso: No. _ Mayor Suarez: All right. Commissioner Plummer: Give me back my picture. - Mayor Suarez: I think we're about to have a de facto adjournment here. Mr. Manager, while you discuss matters with Mr. Deman, which I'm sure you can do later, one other item that has to do a lot with the salaries and benefits of office, - I think we had lost, you had kind of forgotten about this Commission's directive, which I think was by unanimous determination, that no one, other than maybe detectives or people who have a particular reason, drive - home a City car who does not live in the City of Miami. Sir, I will not vote for any budget that includes any allocation of money for a City car for anyone - 139 May 1, 1992 who does not live in the City of Miami. Now, car allowance, automobile payment, whatever the hell you call it, no one should be able to take a car home outside the City of Miami, and I have been made aware of a need to have an exception, which is for detectives. They have unmarked cars. They need to use them. I think that's a very good exception other than that, no one, not department heads, not Assistant City Managers, not whoever the heck are the other people who are driving cars home who don't live in the City of Miami, should be able to do that. All right? Commissioner Dawkins: That's two votes for that. We just need one more. Mayor Suarez: I thought we made that into a resolution. Commissioner Dawkins: You just need one more. Mayor Suarez: Right. And please build that into the budget, and you can do it by all kinds of incentives, I'm sure, in connection with this other possibility of restricting salaries to less than seventy-five thousand dollars for department heads. Vice Mayor Alonso: Just telling them that this is an exciting City. To move back. Mayor Suarez: That's right. And I am mindful of the fact that the Fire Chief, at least is looking to move into the City of Miami. I hope that, that will be accomplished soon, because that also was a policy determination that any new promotions to the level of discretionary levels, assistant director, director, etcetera, would be accompanied by the requirement that the person live in the City of Miami before that appointment was made. I know he is in good faith trying that. That's good enough for me. I hope other people keep that in mind, and I hope he ultimately is able to resolve that. I mean, the market is not real good for selling houses, but we all have to do it, folks. THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION, THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 5:59 P.M. ATTEST: —. Natty Hirai CITY CLERK Walter J. Foemn ASSISTANT CITY CLERK Xavier L. Suarez N A Y 0 R 140 May 7, 1992