HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1992-01-23 MinutesCITY OF MIAMI
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OF FETING HELD ON JANUARY 23, 1992
PLANNING & ZONING
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
CITY HALL
MATTY HIRAI
City Clerk
ITEM SUBJECT
NO.
INDEX
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 23, 1992
LEGISLATION PAGE
NO.
1. DISCUSSION AND TEMPORARY DEFERRAL OF A DISCUSSION 2-9
PROPOSED EMERGENCY ORDINANCE TO AMEND 1/23/92
ORDINANCE 10914 BY INCREASING REVENUES
AND APPROPRIATIONS IN THE AMOUNT OF
$250,000 ($100,000 FROM THE DOWNTOWN
DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY [DDA] AND
$150,000 FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF OFF-
STREET PARKING [DOSP]) TO COVER COSTS
ASSOCIATED WITH ASSISTANCE TO THE
HOMELESS. (See label 4)
2. COMMISSIONER DAWKINS REPORTS ON HIS DISCUSSION 9-13
RECENT TRIP TO TALLAHASSEE CONCERNING: 1/23/92
(a) THE FOOD AND BEVERAGE TAX ISSUE;
(b) PROPOSED LEGISLATION CONCERNING
SECURITY AT CONVENIENCE STORES; AND (c)
REDISTRICTING.
3. PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND DISCUSSION
SPECIAL ITEMS. 1/23/92
4. (Continued Discussion) EMERGENCY ORDINANCE
ORDINANCE: AMEND ORDINANCE 10914 10944
(WHICH ESTABLISHED SPECIAL REVENUE 1/23/92
FUND: HOMELESS PROJECT) BY INCREASING
REVENUES AND APPROPRIATIONS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $250,000 ($100,000 FROM THE
DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY [DDA]
AND $150,000 FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF
OFF-STREET PARKING [DOSP]) TO COVER THE
COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH ASSISTANCE TO THE
HOMELESS, WITH PROVISO. (See label 1)
13-14
15-25
5. DISCUSSION WITH REPRESENTATIVES OF R 92-44
HURRICANE MOORING SYSTEMS CONCERNING 1/23192
PROPOSED PLAN TO SERVE AS A SAFE HAVEN
FOR BOATS DURING A HURRICANE
SITUATION -- DIRECT ADMINISTRATION TO
DRAFT A REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL (RFP)
BASED ON OUTLINED GUIDELINES AND TO
EXPLORE POSSIBILITY OF MAKING THE
MARINE STADIUM AVAILABLE.
6. CONFIRM TWO ELECTED EMPLOYEE MEMBERS TO R 92-45
SERVE ON THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD. 1/23/92
(Elected were: Steve Smigelski and
Orlando Llamas).
7. AMEND RESOLUTION 92-18 CONCERNING THE R 92-46
UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI CHAMPIONSHIP PARADE 1/23/92
TO CELEBRATE MIAMI HURRICANES VICTORY
AT THE ORANGE BOWL -- INCREASE IN -KIND
SERVICES.
8. (A) EMERGENCY ORDINANCE: AMEND
ORDINANCE
ORDINANCE 10938 -- INCREASE TOTAL
10945
APPROPRIATION TO CAPITAL PROJECT:
DISCUSSION
ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION - PHASE II
1/23/92
(Project 404238) BY $7,000,000, FROM
PROFESSIONAL SPORTS FRANCHISE FACILITY
TAX BONDS PROCEEDS ALLOCATED TO THE
ORANGE BOWL BY METROPOLITAN DADE COUNTY
RESOLUTION OF INTENT R-1414-91.
(B) BRIEF COMMENTS BY VICE MAYOR
ALONSO INDICATING THAT THE PREVIOUSLY
INSTITUTED COMMISSION AWARENESS PROGRAM
WAS NOT BEING FOLLOWED BY
ADMINISTRATION.
25-27
27-28
29-31
31-33
11
11
9. (A) DISCUSS AND TEMPORARILY TABLE
CONSIDERATION OF PROPOSED RESOLUTION TO
ACCEPT BID AND TO EXECUTE CONTRACT FOR
ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION PROJECT -
PHASE II (1992) - JOIST REPLACEMENT AND
RESTROOM FACILITIES IMPROVEMENT (B-
2321-E)
(B) BRIEF DISCUSSION CONCERNING CITY
COMMISSION AWARENESS PROGRAM.
(C) CITY COMMISSION CRITICIZES
ADMINISTRATION FOR ERROR IN AGENDA
PACKET AS WELL AS WORDING USED IN
DRAFTING CITY BIDS.
(D) CITY COMMISSION QUESTIONS
ADMINISTRATION CONCERNING
MALFUNCTIONING OF BATHROOMS AT THE
ORANGE BOWL.
(E) CITY COMMISSION DIRECTS MANAGER TO
DRAFT NEW PURCHASING AND BIDDING
GUIDELINES FOR THE CITY. [Note:
Discussion of Orange Bowl Modernization
Program continues on label 18.]
10. (A) COMMISSION INQUIRES ABOUT STATUS
REPORT ON COMPLETE REVIEW OF BURGLAR
ALARM ORDINANCE.
(B) DISCUSSION CONCERNING PROTEST FROM
DESIGN DISTRICT CONCERNING HIGH
INCIDENCE OF CRIME IN THE AREA --
REQUEST FOR TAX ABATEMENT DUE TO LACK
OF POLICE PRESENCE AND SUPPORT.
(C) DIRECT CITY ATTORNEY TO INCLUDE IN
THE BURGLAR ALARM ORDINANCE A SPECIFIC
CLAUSE THAT WOULD IMPOSE A FINE FOR ALL
POLICE RESPONSES TO BUSINESSES OR
INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE EXPIRED PERMITS --
DIRECT ADMINISTRATION TO REVIEW
PERFORMANCE OF ALARM COMPANIES.
11. EXECUTE AGREEMENT WITH JOSE FABREGAS,
FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES CONCERNING
DEVELOPMENT AND CONSTRUCTION
SUPERVISION OF CITY -SPONSORED SCATTERED
SITE AFFORDABLE HOMEOWNERSHIP PROGRAM,
THE ST. HUGH OAKS VILLAGE PROJECT, AND
TO CONDUCT INSPECTIONS OF RENOVATION
ACTIVITIES AT COUNTY -OWNED PUBLIC
HOUSING PROJECTS.
DISCUSSION
1/23/92
DISCUSSION
1/23/92
R 92-47
1/23/92
33-83
83-99
99-100
12. BRIEF COMMENTS BY VICE MAYOR ALONSO DISCUSSION
AND COMMISSIONER PLUMMER ADDRESSING 1/23/92
PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WHERE THEY
HAVE ENCOUNTERED DIFFICULTIES WHILE
PARKING AT CITY HALL.
13. COMMISSIONER PLUMMER CRITICIZES WORDING DISCUSSION
CONTAINED IN BID SPECIFICATIONS. 1/23/92
14. ADMINISTRATION ANNOUNCES WITHDRAWAL OF DISCUSSION
AN OFFICIAL PROTEST BY JUDSON AND 1/23/92
PARTNERS CONCERNING AWARD OF REQUEST
FOR PROPOSALS (RFP) FOR PROFESSIONAL
ARCHITECTURAL .AND ENGINEERING SERVICES
FOR THE DESIGN, PREPARATION OF
CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS AND CONSTRUCTION
ADMINISTRATION OF THE OLYMPIC POOL
COMPLEX AT CHARLES HADLEY PARK.
15. APPROVE FINDINGS OF COMPETITIVE R 92-48
SELECTION COMMITTEE AS TO MOST 1/23/92
QUALIFIED TEAMS TO PROVIDE PROFESSIONAL
SERVICES FOR THE DESIGN / PREPARATION
OF CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS /
CONSTRUCTION ADMINISTRATION OF AN
OLYMPIC POOL COMPLEX AT CHARLES HADLEY
PARK -- AUTHORIZE NEGOTIATIONS WITH
MOST QUALIFIED TEAMS IN RANK ORDER AND
PRESENT NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT FOR
APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION.
16. INSTRUCT MANAGER TO RESEARCH LEGAL DISCUSSION
RIGHTS THE CITY MAY HAVE TO GRANT 1/23/92
AMERICAN-MADE PRODUCTS A 10% EDGE OVER
NON-AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS.
17. AMEND RESOLUTION 91-886, WHICH PROVIDED R 92-49
FOR REFUNDING OF OUTSTANDING PORTION OF 1/23/92
CITY'S CERTIFICATES OF PARTICIPATION
(SERIES 1986), AND AUTHORIZED ISSUANCE
OF $5,000,000 OF REFUNDING REVENUE
BONDS (SERIES 1991) -- FOR THE PURPOSE
OF EFFECTING CERTAIN AMENDMENTS TO
IMPROVE THE MARKETABILITY AND RATING OF
THE BONDS.
101-102
102-103
103
104-131
132-133
133-146
0
18. CONTINUED DISCUSSION CONCERNING R 92-50
RESOLUTION TO ACCEPT BID ON THE ORANGE 1/23/92
BOWL MODIFICATION PROJECT, PHASE II
(1992) -- JOIST REPLACEMENT AND
RESTROOM FACILITIES IMPROVEMENT -- CITY
COMMISSION REJECTS ALL BIDS RECEIVED --
INSTRUCT ADMINISTRATION TO REBID
PROJECT, SEGREGATING THE PAINT PORTION
OF CONTRACT (See label 9).
19. RENEW EXISTING CONTRACT WITH AUTOMATED R 92-51
MEDICAL SERVICES, INC., FOR COLLECTION 1/23/92
OF EMERGENCY MEDICAL TRANSPORTATION
FEES.
20. ACCEPT BIDS: (a) BARNETT OFFICE R 92-52
SUPPLIES, (b) RICHARD YOUNG, (c) DECORA 1/23/92
OFFICE FURNITURE, (d) OCEAN OFFICE
PRODUCTS, (e) AFP INDUSTRIES, INC., (f)
CLASSIC STATIONERS, INC., (g) N & K
ENTERPRISES, INC., (h) MARTIN
ASSOCIATES, (i) APRICOT, AND (j) 9 TO
5 -- FOR OFFICE SUPPLIES.
21. APPROVE CHIEF PROCUREMENT OFFICER'S R 92-53
DECISION TO REJECT THE PROTEST RECEIVED 1/23/92
FROM SAC CONSTRUCTION COMPANY INC.,
CONCERNING BID NO. 91-92-026 FOR ORANGE
BOWL STADIUM MODERNIZATION PHASE II,
ASBESTOS CONTAINING MATERIALS REMOVAL.
22. REQUEST BY APPELLANT FOR CONTINUANCE OF DISCUSSION
PROPOSED RESOLUTION APPEALING A 1/23/92
HISTORIC DESIGNATION FOR AREA BOUNDED
BY REAR LOT LINES BETWEEN N.E. 72
STREET AND N.E. 72 TERRACE ON THE
NORTH, BISCAYNE BAY AND N.E. 7 COURT ON
THE EAST, N.E. 69 STREET EAST OF N.E. 7
COURT (EXTENDED), AND REAR LOT LINES
BETWEEN N.E. 67 AND 68 STREETS WEST OF
N.E. 7 COURT ON THE SOUTH, AND REAR LOT
LINES OF PROPERTIES FRONTING ON
BISCAYNE BOULEVARD ON THE WEST.
(Appellant: Estate of Mary Elizabeth
Whitney Tippet and Cloyce Tippet) (See
label 32)
23. PERSONAL APPEARANCE: MANUEL GONZALEZ- DISCUSSION
GOENAGA (CITIZENS UNITED FOR A DECENT 1/23/92
GOVERNMENT ELECTORAL ALLIANCE) TO
DISCUSS ELECTORAL REFORM FOR MUNICIPAL
/ COUNTY CAMPAIGN FINANCING.
146-185
186-187
187-188
189-234
234-236
237-241
24. PERSONAL APPEARANCE: BOB FITZSIMMONS DISCUSSION
REGARDING INTENDED USE FOR U.S. NAVAL 1/23/92
RESEARCH CENTER PROPERTY IN COCONUT
GROVE AS A SHELTER FOR THE HOMELESS --
REQUEST GROUP TO COME BACK AT A
SUBSEQUENT MEETING WITH AN ESTIMATED
COST FIGURE TO THE CITY, IF IT WERE TO
DECIDE TO JOIN THE CLASS ACTION SUIT.
25. EXECUTE AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA R 92-54
INTERAMERICAN FILM, VIDEO, TV AND 1/23/92
RECORDING ASSOCIATION, INC., IN SUPPORT
OF THE 1991 INTERNATIONAL CO -PRODUCTION
MARKET AND CONFERENCE OF FLORIDA.
26.
RATIFY MANAGER'S EMERGENCY FINDING --
R 92-55
WAIVE FORMAL COMPETITIVE SEALED BID
1/23/92
PROCEDURES -- APPROVE THE OBTAINING OF
INFORMAL QUOTES FOR REBUILDING ORANGE
BOWL STADIUM FIELD.
27.
AUTHORIZE SUBMITTAL OF AMENDMENT TO
R 92-56
APPROVED 17TH YEAR COMMUNITY
1/23/92
DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) PROGRAM
FINAL STATEMENT TO U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT (HUD), TO
REFLECT PROPOSED ALLOCATION OF
$8,000,000 FOR A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
FLOAT LOAN -- DIRECT MANAGER TO BRING
BEFORE COMMISSION ALL NECESSARY
AGREEMENTS FOR A PROPOSED LOAN TO THE
DUPONT BUILDING GENERAL PARTNERSHIP.
28.
INSTRUCT MANAGER TO MEET WITH
M 92-57
REPRESENTATIVES OF BETTER WAY MIAMI
1/23/92
CONCERNING THE SHELTER PLUS CARE
PROGRAM IN ORDER TO DRAFT PROPOSED
LEASE FOR USE OF BECKHAM HALL IN
CONNECTION WITH A SUBSTANCE ABUSE
PROGRAM FOR THE HOMELESS, AND BRING
BEFORE THE COMMISSION A RECOMMENDATION
AT THE FIRST MEETING IN FEBRUARY.
29.
INSTRUCT ADMINISTRATION TO EXPEDITE
M 92-58
PROCESS OF APPLICATION BY CAROLINE
1/23/92
WEISS FOR PLAT AT N.W. 7 STREET EAST OF
N.W. 51 AVENUE (TOWERS OF BLUE LAGOON
PLAT NO. 1349-D), AND TO BRING IT
BEFORE THE COMMISSION AT SECOND MEETING
IN MARCH.
242-265
265-266
266-267
268-275
0kiwIt-h
287-298
30. (A) APPEAL CONCERNING ZONING BOARD'S
DISCUSSION 298-303
DECISION TO ALLOW MODIFICATION TO
1/23/92
SPECIAL EXCEPTION PREVIOUSLY APPROVED
AT 2852 SNIPPING AVENUE AND 3121-3125
MARY STREET WITHDRAWN BY BENJAMIN
GREER, PRESIDENT, APOGEE CONDOMINIUM
ASSOCIATION (Owner / applicant: Rafael
A. Sanchez, President, Sabal
Properties).
(B) DISCUSSION CONCERNING POTENTIAL
IMPACT TO THE CITY OF THE RECENT
DECISION OF THE MILTON S. JENNINGS VS.
DADE COUNTY AND LARRY SCHATZMAN (THE
JENNINGS DECISION) CONCERNING EX PARTE
COMMUNICATIONS ON ZONING MATTERS.
31. FIRST READING ORDINANCE: AMEND 11000
ORDINANCE 303-306
ATLAS -- CHANGE DESIGNATION AT 2727-
FIRST READING
2729 S.W. 27 TERRACE FROM R-2 TWO
1/23192
FAMILY RESIDENTIAL TO C-1 RESTRICTED
COMMERCIAL (Owner / Applicant: Daniel
A. Kavanaugh and Elliott Y. Denner).
32. BRIEFLY DISCUSS REQUEST BY APPELLANT
DISCUSSION 307-309
FOR CONTINUANCE OF PROPOSED RESOLUTION
1/23/92
APPEALING A HISTORIC DESIGNATION FOR
AREA BOUNDED BY REAR LOT LINES BETWEEN
N.E. 72 STREET AND N.E. 72 TERRACE ON
THE NORTH, BISCAYNE BAY AND N.E. 7
COURT ON THE EAST, N.E. 69 STREET EAST
OF N.E. 7 COURT (EXTENDED), AND REAR
LOT LINES BETWEEN N.E. 67 AND 68
STREETS WEST OF N.E. 7 COURT ON THE
SOUTH, AND REAR LOT LINES OF PROPERTIES
FRONTING ON BISCAYNE BOULEVARD ON THE
WEST. (Appellant: Estate of Mary
Elizabeth Whitney Tippett and Cloyce
Tippett) (Continued to second meeting
in February --See label 22)
33. DISCUSS AND CONTINUE PROPOSED DISCUSSION
RESOLUTION OFFICIALLY VACATING AND 1123/92
CLOSING PORTION OF N.E. 51 STREET LYING
EAST OF EAST RIGHT-OF-WAY (ROW) LINE OF
N.E. MIAMI PLACE AND WEST OF WEST ROW
LINE OF N.E. 2 AVENUE, AS WELL AS THAT
PORTION OF N.E. 1 COURT LYING NORTH OF
NORTH ROW LINE OF N.E. 50 TERRACE AND
SOUTH OF SOUTH ROW LINE OF N.E. 51
STREET, AS CONDITION OF APPROVAL OF
TENTATIVE PLAT #1402 DOUGLAS GARDENS
SOUTH. (Owner / Applicant: Miami
Jewish Home & Hospital for the Aged,
Inc.)
34. GRANT APPEAL -- REVERSE ZONING BOARD'S R 92-59
DENIAL OF A VARIANCE TO ALLOW A SHORTER 1/23/92
REAR SETBACK AND BATHROOM ADDITION TO
EXISTING STORAGE ROOM OF A SINGLE
FAMILY RESIDENCE AT 330 N.W. 63 COURT,
WITH PROVISO (Appellant: Dionisio &
Caridad Acosta).
35. COMMISSIONER PLUMMER QUALIFIES THE CODE DISCUSSION
ENFORCEMENT BOARD AS INEFFECTIVE, AND 1/23/92
MENTIONS VIOLATIONS AT 3241 FLORIDA
AVENUE -- DIRECTS ADMINISTRATION TO
ENFORCE THE LAW.
36. (A) DENY APPEAL BY COCONUT GROVE CIVIC R 92-60
CLUB -- AFFIRM ZONING BOARD'S GRANTING DISCUSSION
OF SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO ALLOW 1/23/92
CONSTRUCTION OF 8 RESIDENTIAL UNITS AT
2921 DAY AVENUE AND 3180-3186 MARY
STREET.
(B) DISCUSSION BY CITY ATTORNEY'S
OFFICE CONCERNING EX PARTE
COMMUNICATIONS AND THE RECENT JENNINGS
DECISION.
37. APPROVE, IN PRINCIPLE, THE MIAMI RIVER R 92-61
MASTER PLAN, FINAL REPORT, DATED 1/23/92
JANUARY, 1992.
38. GRANT MAJOR USE SPECIAL PERMIT AT 3015 R 92-62
GRAND AVENUE FOR THE COMPLETED COCOWALK 1/23/92
PROJECT, AND SPECIFICALLY APPROVE 535
PARKING SPACES ON TWO BELOW -GRADE AND
TWO ABOVE -GRADE LEVELS (Owner /
Appellant: Grand Oak Limited
Partnership).
309-314
315-318
318-320
321-333
333-334
334-336
39. APPROVE CODESIGNATION OF A DOWNTOWN R 92-63 337-339
STREET IN HONOR OF ROBERT F. CLARK 1/23/92
(FORMER CHIEF DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY AND
SPECIAL COUNSEL) -- WAIVE ALL FEES.
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING OF THE
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
On the 23rd day of January, 1992, the City Commission of Miami, Florida,
met at its regular meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive,
Miami, Florida in regular session.
The meeting was called to order at 9:03 a.m. by Mayor Xavier Suarez with
the following members of the Commission found to be present:
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
ABSENT: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
ALSO PRESENT:
Cesar Odio, City Manager
A. Quinn Jones, III, City Attorney
Matty Hirai, City Clerk
Walter J. Foeman, Assistant City Clerk
An invocation was delivered by Mayor Suarez. Vice Mayor Alonso then led
those present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag.
Mayor Suarez: I think we're anticipating the arrival of the Mayor and Police
Chief of the City of North Miami. The new Mayor and Police Chief - When they
arrive here, I wish they would advise us. And they want to I believe, thank
this Commission for the initiative of yours I think, Commissioner Plummer, in
setting up the reward fund for the apprehension of the killers of Detective
Steven Bauer.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't know.
Commissioner Dawkins: The money will come from J. L.'s funeral home.
Commissioner Plummer: My fellow Commissioner, with pleasure if I had the
money, but I want to say to the people of this community, when you stop and
think that it cost each citizen of this City eleven cents, is the way that it
worked itself out, I don't know of anybody that wouldn't have given a dollar
to bring about those kinds of results.
}
1 January 23, 1992
1. DISCUSSION AND TEMPORARY DEFERRAL OF A PROPOSED EMERGENCY ORDINANCE TO
AMEND ORDINANCE 10914 BY INCREASING REVENUES AND APPROPRIATIONS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $250,000 ($100,000 FROM THE DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
[DDA] AND COVER 1ASSOCIIATED WITH ASSIS50,000 FROM THE TANCE TANCE ORTMENT F HEOFF-STREET R
HOMELESS PARKING
label 4TO
)
COSTS
Mayor Suarez: Item 1 is an Emergency Ordinance regarding the homeless project
which increases revenues and appropriations in the amount of $250,000,
including $100,000 from the Downtown Development Authority and $150,000 from
the Off -Street Parking Authority.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, my question is who is receiving the money
and what's it going to be used for?
Mayor Suarez: Sergio, you want to outline what we hope to accomplish jointly
with the County?
Mr. Sergio Rodriguez: Basically the monies being put together with the money
from the County, and we're using it to place people in shelters and also to
service them with follow-up case work.
Commissioner Plummer: Who is in charge and who can be held accountable?
Mr. Rodriguez: The City and the County together.
Commissioner Plummer: Who in the City?
Mr. Rodriguez: In the City it is myself.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm sorry?
Mr. Rodriguez: I am the one that attends the meetings, and the one that gets
involved in the decision making.
Commissioner Plummer: And what you're telling me is - or telling this
Commission is that $250,000 of our money is going -providing, basically,
housing. Is that correct?
Mr. Rodriguez: Basically housing, but also we follow up each case with a case
worker to make sure that the people are ready to go at the right time into a
life of their own.
Commissioner Plummer: Now...
Mr. Rodriguez: Excuse me. We also provide them with referrals to different
programs like food stamps, SSI(Supplemental Security Income) different
programs which are available.
Commissioner Plummer: Any individual would be the recipient for how long?
2 January 23, 1992
Mr. Rodriguez: The program that we have is basically for three months for the
people that have no substance abuse problems and six months for substance
abuse problems.
Commissioner Plummer: And of that...
Mr. Rodriguez: And one more thing I should clarify. We have given priority
to the people under the expressway where we put the fence, area which is under
the City of Miami responsibility, because that is under DOSP (Department of
Off Street Parking), and also to the people who are sharing Lummus Park. We
gave them a number, like a turn, so they can - an appointment - so that they
will be taken in that order and they will be placed in that order. After that
period of time in which we go from the I-395 Expressway and Lummus Park, then
we will continue, if there is any funding available, with the other people
which are under the other parts of the expressway.
Commissioner Plummer: Approximately how many people do you feel that you will
be able to accommodate?
Mr. Rodriguez: I would say probably around 150, depending on what we find.
Because if it is... if we have to place them in substance abuse programs, they
are fairly expensive. But the idea is, you know, we had a program in the
meantime between the termination of the first phase of the program that we
started in July and that ended in September 15th until now in which we have
been basically getting information from them and referring them to different
programs. This is to place them.
Commissioner Plummer: My final question. What has been the results of the
program of $50,000 from the DDA (Downtown Development Authority)?
Mr. Rodriguez: The $30,000?
Commissioner Plummer: Fifty.
Mr. Rodriguez: There was a program from DDA in which they paid $50,000 for
the outreach and in that program Livia Garcia is working with DDA on that and
they have been going with a group of four ex -homeless and picking up different
people in different areas and offering them help. That program is very
limited in its scope because they are dealing with a particular area of
downtown in which they have a major impact on the businesses, and they're
going very specifically and very slowly, but I think they're doing a good job
with that. I couldn't give you a figure, I don't have it.
Commissioner Plummer: So this, at best, is three months?
Mr. Rodriguez: Three to six months. The idea first, remember, is we're
trying to clear up the area under the expressway and also Lummus Park, and
then continue providing case workers for them.
Commissioner Plummer: Fine.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You're excited.
Commissioner Plummer: Huh?
3 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: You're very excited.
Commissioner Plummer: No.
Mayor Suarez: What is the status on the $100,000 from DDA? Can we, Mr. City
Attorney, can we approve the ordinance even though we don't yet have the
$100,000 from the Downtown Development Authority?
A. Quinn Jones, Esq.: No, the way this ordinance is presently prepared
appropriating the $100,000 from DDA would be improper since the DDA board has
not approved that amount.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Was it not inserted as a line item in their
budget?
Mr. Jones: Mr. Plummer, I don't know whether it was inserted as a line item.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, who does know?
Mr. Jones: I've only been informed that it has not been approved by the
board.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I think it was supposed to be a line item on the budget.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, wait a minute. Who's running the show here? Is
the "tail wagging the dog?"
Mayor Suarez: We have... No, wait, wait, wait, J. L. We have sufficient
funds in the miscellaneous account, or whatever we call it, to cover this, but
the DDA board hasn't acted on it because the DDA...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, Mr. Mayor. That's not my point. My point
is we, this City Commission, directed a line item budget of ten percent or
$150,000. Now, what has the DDA got to do with it when we put it in there, we
demanded it and we got it. I don't understand.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Is Matthew Schwartz here?
Mayor Suarez: Well, the board understood, and maybe we ought to wait until
Matthew is here, the board understood that we could begin applying the
$150,000 that this Commission has required from the DDA budget with the pilot
project and the monies for Livia Garcia's salary, which I think are $25,000
from DDA, so that would be a total of $55,000, and then contribute the other
$95,000 at a later time during the fiscal year that we're in.
Commissioner Plummer: Didn't they come here for...
Mayor Suarez: The money is set aside, the money is not going anywhere. And,
uh...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Maybe we should table this item until Matthew is here and
can explain. I'm certain that the money should be in their budget. It was
approved on the basis of this item being a line item, so I'm sure it's
included. Why don't we wait, table the item until he arrives.
4 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: How much, just if you know, how much do we have in the reserve
account, or in the...
Mr. Clyde Judson: We have in the reserve, if I remember correctly, in the
neighborhood of about $150,000.
Mayor Suarez: Well, this Commission is saying rather emphatically, and I
think its a consensus of all of us - and let me add my own feelings on it to
make them clear - that money ought to be made available, like pronto. Now,
Commissioners I do want you to know that we have to act on this appropriations
ordinance as soon as possible, and that, if need be, I guess I can convene the
DDA board before our next regularly scheduled meeting and not delay this
further. If you want to, you can condition the appropriations ordinance
approval on that.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: But I would ask you to move on this at some point in time.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let me tell you. I have no problem moving
on this, all right? What I'm saying is, we're the policy makers and our
policy obviously is not being carried out, and that bothers me. The "tail is
wagging the dog." This is ridiculous. We insisted, I'm the guilty party, I
insisted that, that money come from DDA and Off -Street Parking Authority, and
I don't see where the DDA has any control over that which we set forth.
That's what bothers me.
Mr. Judson: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Yeah.
Mr. Judson: I've been asked to come and ask that you all consider deferring
this until the DDA board can have an opportunity to meet.
Mr. Odio: I have a problem with that, Mr. Mayor.
Commissioner Plummer: Let's get rid of the board. Enough of this.
Mr. Odio: No, wait. We are already moving people out. We have a check from
the Off -Street Parking...
Vice Mayor Alonso: In other words, you are using the money already?
Mr. Odio: We are using the money, not that one precisely...
Vice Mayor Alonso: This is always after the fact.
Mr. Odio: No, no, no, no.
Mayor Suarez: Well, folks, what we have to do is resolve this...
5 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well?
Mr. Odio: We are not using...
Mayor Suarez: ... We know, Mr. Manager, the problems. We've stated them on
the record. We know the DDA issue, we've stated that on the record. Now
let's see if somebody comes up with some solutions. The only one I can think
of is the City Attorney can draft this in a way that we can pass it, subject
to the appropriation of the monies from DDA. I will convene the DDA as
quickly as I can feasibly do. Perhaps as early as tomorrow.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't want that. I don't want that.
Mayor Suarez: In the meantime, dig up Mr. Matthew Schwartz,..,
Commissioner Plummer: That means that they've got control.
Mayor Suarez: ... let's get this clarified that he understands what this
Commission wants to do, and let's see if somebody can come up with some
wording that makes sense so that we can act today, because this Commission is
not meeting otherwise until February 13th and that's a long time to wait for
something that you just told us is already going on. So, we're going to put
everybody on the same chronology. DDA thought, J. L., and all of the
Commissioners, Commissioner Alonso and - Vice Mayor Alonso and Commissioner
Dawkins, that they had... - that we had approved a sequence by which the pilot
program would be implemented first, because that's the presentation they made
at the last Commission meeting and we approved it. I don't think that was
ever clearly put on the record, and in fairness to this Commission and to
them, I think we ought to make our intentions very clear. You've done that
this morning. DDA has to put the money up, cash, pronto. And I suggest it
can be done as early as tomorrow so that the ordinance can be drafted,
conditioned on that Joel, can do that, or Quinn or somebody?
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me tell you where I'm at, Mr. Mayor. Very
simple. Either that money is forthcoming tomorrow, and I assure you on
February the 13th, if its not received tomorrow, I'm going to make a motion to
eliminate the DDA Board.
Mayor Suarez: Well, but please don't say tomorrow. I'm going to try to do it
tomorrow. But give me till the 13th. I mean, give me...
Commissioner Plummer: But you're missing...
Mayor Suarez: ... three, four, five working days, you know.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, you're missing my point. I have no problem
with this resolution, I want you to understand that. The problem that I have
is, is DDA is telling this Commission that they're going to do things the way
they want to do them, in spite of the instructions of this Commission. That's
what bothers me.
Mayor Suarez: It's just that DDA is a little different from what you're
conceiving. It isn't really something that can just sort of abolish. It's ..
6 January 23, 1992
i
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, I can...
Mayor Suarez: ... it's a creature of State law...
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, I have the right to change all the members.
Mayor Suarez: ... it's a creature of State law. I don't know for sure that
you have a right to do that.
Commissioner Plummer: I have a right to change the budget.
Mayor Suarez: Well, you've changed quite a few in the last six and a half
years.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, Mr. Mayor, but...
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor, may I...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... what Commissioner Plummer is saying is very important.
Lately, we have seen, not only this case, but in some other instances, that we
are making motions and approving by this entire Commission, and then we find
out later on that it's not carried on, the wishes of this Commission. And
it's something to be very concerned with ODA as well as some other measures
that we will be seeing, some of them today, that in fact no one is paying
attention to us and it's kind of an exercise in futility if we come here and
we say this is the way we want things done, and then no one pays attention to
us. What are we going to do next?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, they don't.
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, and it's an uncomfortable position for me to be in,
because I understand what this Commission wants to do and...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, let's do this.
Mayor Suarez: ... it's been about as clear as it can be, but, uh... - Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: I'll move this item right now and God help them. I'll
move item 1.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, I have to say I'm going to vote no for the simple
reason that if...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, then it's dead.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... we had made such a point, I think this should be
tabled, Matthew should be in front of us to give us some sort of
explanation...
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, and...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... because I don't see making a point and...
7 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: ... at least so we know the signal has gotten there. Is that
fair, J. L.? That we'll table it...
Commissioner Plummer: Fine.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... yeah, I don't...
Mayor Suarez: ... but please be ready to make the motion and let's pass this.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, 4/5ths vote and she's going to vote against
It, yes, it's fair.
Commissioner Dawkins: Well, so what. It's two -two, let's go through the
exercise.
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor.
Commissioner Dawkins: I second it. I'll see if you back down. I second it.
Commissioner Plummer: Motion is to pass it.
Mayor Suarez: It's moved and seconded.
Commissioner Plummer: What was the motion?
Commissioner Dawkins: I don't know, you made it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, you made it.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, yes.
Mayor Suarez: To approve the ordinance.
Commissioner Plummer: But you can't. She's going to vote against it. It's a
4/5ths. It's an emergency. Forget it. We're going to ask...
Vice Mayor Alonso: And I'm going to do it on the basis...
Commissioner Dawkins: Ok, no problem. All right. All right.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... what's the point, if J. L. has been trying to make a
point in such a strong way, and then we just move on and vote, I just don't
think that's right.
Mayor Suarez: And we had a suggestion to table the item and dig up Matthew
Schwartz, and I think that's fair.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor, a point of special privilege.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor and fellow Commissioners...
Commissioner Plummer: When Matthew gets here...
8 January 23, 1992
Mr. Odio: He's out of town.
Commissioner Plummer: ... you're going to have well I don't know, maybe this,
maybe that.
Commissioner Dawkins: J. L., it's my time now.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well at least we have some sort of explanation.
Mayor Suarez: All right, wait, wait folks.
Commissioner Dawkins: J. L., it's Miller's time.
Commissioner Plummer: What happened to Budweiser?
Mayor Suarez: If Mr. Schwartz is not here, the item is still tabled and
report back to me in a few minutes. Commissioner Dawkins has the floor. Go
ahead, Commissioner.
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Commissioner De Yurre entered
the commission meeting at 9:18 a.m.
2. COMMISSIONER DAWKINS REPORTS ON HIS RECENT TRIP TO TALLAHASSEE
CONCERNING: (a) THE FOOD AND BEVERAGE TAX ISSUE; (b) PROPOSED
LEGISLATION CONCERNING SECURITY AT CONVENIENCE STORES; AND (c)
REDISTRICTING.
Mayor Suarez: If Mr. Schwartz is not here, the item is still tabled and
report back to me in a few minutes. Commissioner Dawkins has the floor. Go
ahead, Commissioner.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right. As you know, as the representative of the
City of Miami, I went to Tallahassee at the opening of the legislative
session, if that's what we can call it, and the two items I think that I need
directions from you on this morning, and one of them is the proposed food and
beverage tax. Now, we must take... I think you need to give me some
directions because I've had some questions prepared which I submitted to you,
and one of them that I'm concerned about says that 30 percent of the tax will
go for economic improvements, then it says fifty-one percent of the thirty
percent will go to the hou... dedicated to programs to alleviate homelessness.
Well if you take fifty-one percent of thirty percent, you're talking about
fifteen percent. So I don't know what they're talking about.
Commissioner Plummer: They don't either.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Exactly what it is. Thirty million.
E
January 23, 1992
Commissioner Dawkins: So, then if you... and what are they talking about to
alleviate homelessness, you know, you have to explain that. The second thing
that you need to help me with is it says an existing two-year growth cap,
which says proceeds above the average of the first two years' collections are
allocated, now here's where we get shafted, all the time, this money will be
allocated at the discretion of the County Commission. So here again, here we
go again. County Commission in charge. But I also have some questions that
you need me to look at and either tell me, this afternoon or sometime, and
these are what I need your input on. Number one, has the County met with
anyone in the City of Miami, including the Manager, to discuss the homeless
situation? All along everybody in Dade County has said the homeless problem
is the City's problem. Now that there's money available, the County wants to
take charge. That's number one. Number two, what provisions are made to
distribute the money to the City of Miami? How do we know how much we're
going to get since the bulk of the problem lies in the City? What does the
word discretion mean when the County said they're going to distribute the
money? How would this impact the restaurant owners, these little small coffee
shops where you go and pay twenty-five cents and get a cup of coffee and we...
Commissioner Plummer: Thirty.
Commissioner Dawkins: Three. Whatever. How will that impact on them? And,
you know, why doesn't the County tell us that this money will come to the
City? I don't care what happen. Now these are some things that I need some
directions from this Commission on because, as a citizen...
Commissioner Plummer: Easy for me.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... I'm prepared to vote against it.
Commissioner Plummer: No new tax.
Commissioner Dawkins: But I do not want to say up there as I'm representing
the City of Miami that this Commission is against this if we are not. So I
need for you to tell me something on that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Miller, actually I think the answer has to come from them
to us. Because it's not clear enough what good it's going to do for Miami.
And that's the point that you have made so clear. Rather than us to you, it
has to be from them to us telling us, specifically, how is it going to help
the situation in Miami. It seems that in Dade County everyone has said, up to
this point, that it's Miami's problem and, in fact, Miami has come forward and
done more than we were supposed to be doing. So now we need the specifics.
There's going to be money available, we want to use the money ourselves.
Commissioner Dawkins: Yeah, well... I agree with you, Commissioner Alonso.
The Mayor...
Commissioner Plummer: I'm going to take the same stance, Mr. Dawkins, no new
taxes.
Commissioner Dawkins: You didn't come here to stay, huh?
10 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Hey, I didn't come here to put little companies out of
business. Did you hear the fight, the main fight, yesterday? They are going
to impose which are safety, and understand, regulations on convenience stores
that are going to put them out of business. They say it's... to build a 7-
Eleven, according to the legislature, it costs a million dollars. I don't
know where their 7-Eleven's are, but mine are not a million dollars. And
they're talking about anywhere from ten to fifteen thousand dollars that these
people are going to be required to put in for security. OK? They're going to
put them out of business.
Commissioner Dawkins: Well, you know, as both of you says...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Just wait until item 17 gets here and you'll see how they
are going to get out of business.
Commissioner Dawkins: The Mayor has been... the Herald, everybody else has
jumped on the Mayor,...
Commissioner Plummer:
telling
They're going to make me talk right? - instead of
Vice Mayor Alonso: I told Cesar to withdraw.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... but no one has been to the Mayor to tell the Mayor
this is what the City is going to get out of this. And here, right here, it
says in this paper this morning, they're going to take up twenty million
dollars. They forget that we, you know, went to high school. Twenty million
dollars and they're going to donate three million dollars from the twenty
million dollars for the homeless. Come on. And you know who's going to get
it? The same people who have no minorities in their hierarchy. ..tourism Mr.
Stierhiem and his people. You don't find no blacks, and no Latins, and no
women in the top echelon of the Miami Tourism. Tell them Miller Dawkins said
that, if I'm lying bring me your organizational chart and prove I'm a liar.
So I need the directions on that for this afternoon. And Mr. Mayor one more
and I'll be finished. The other item is...
Mayor Suarez: Yes, and we have the Chief and the Mayor here from North Miami.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK. Good. The other one is we need to take a stand, I
think, on, and maybe pass a resolution about redistricting. My problem is the
Voting Right Act said that minorities were to be represented more from Key
West to Jacksonville, from Jacksonville to Tallahassee, from Tampa on the west
coast to Tallahassee, and from Tallahassee to Pensacola. There were to be
more minority involvement. It did not say that we had to have more minority
involvement in Dade County. It said statewide. And I have a problem with the
districts that they are drawing up in that...
Commissioner Plummer: Which plan?
Commissioner Dawkins: ... they are not drawing up...
Commissioner Plummer: All thirty of them.
Commissioner Dawkins:
... districts, Mr. Mayor.
11 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: They don't look very pretty for one thing.
Commissioner Dawkins: That's right But they're not drawing up districts...
Mayor Suarez:
They're
not compact.
Commissioner
Dawkins:
... that have a Latin or black...
Commissioner
Plummer:
This morning's paper said that one of
them looked like
the "U" in the
University
of Miami.
Commissioner
Dawkins:
... equalizer. If you have -
I'll just take
Pensacola...
Mayor Suarez:
That's
a good analogy. One of them looks like
a "U". It's not
a salamander,
but it's
awfully close.
Commissioner
Dawkins:
Another one looks like a barbell.
But if you drew
up...
Mayor Suarez:
That's
the same one.
Commissioner
Dawkins:
... if you drew up a district...
Commissioner
Plummer:
A barbell or a dumbbell?
Commissioner Dawkins: ... in Pensacola that had forty-five percent voting
Latins, or forty-five percent voting blacks, in Pensacola, then there would
have to be some coalitions formed up there where that individual would know
that its reelection depended on coalitions. And that's my problem. We are
not building coalitions statewide while we got the opportunity to do that. So
if you guys give me something on that, I'll be happy.
Commissioner Plummer: I would tell you, from my standpoint, at this
particular time, it's premature.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK.
Commissioner Plumper: To send anything up there today is to say, hey, here's
what you're supposed to do, do it.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: But with thirty different plans circulating up there,
each one of them radically different, I don't think we can speak to the issue.
That's my opinion.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK. If that's the consensus, I agree with it, its
early, but, therefore... but somewhere along the lines, something has to be
said. I agree. I don't agree with the Senate plan, I do not agree with the
House plan, but I may agree with whatever the Justice Department comes up
with. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
12 January 23, 1992
F
Mayor Suarez: OK, thank you,
in Tallahassee, and I think I
the legislators seemed busy
elections for - or reelections
which, interestingly, the State
ultimately is, as implied by
court's going to do the whole
Very, very troubling.
Commissioner. The troubling thing about being
coincided with you, is that, in fact, most of
with the issue of redistricting and future
- for the legislature and for the U.S. Congress
is the one that does the districting, although
Commissioner Dawkins, I have a feeling the
scheme and not worry about substantive issues.
Commissioner Plummer: The only way to save the State of Florida is don't the
legislature meet for ten years.
3. PROCLAMATIONS, PRESENTATIONS AND SPECIAL ITEMS.
Mayor Suarez: And, in the meantime, if... I would ask you to let us, at this
point, recognize Mayor Colodny from North Miami and Chief... Chief, I know the
name is spelled just like the word "each" and I hope it's pronounced that way,
Chief. We've seen you on television a lot, certainly, and we have shared the
grief with you, and you have done so, both of you, have done so in a way that
I think reflects how we feel about that tragedy. We've been the victims of it
in our City probably more than any other city in recent years. In this
particular case, we were with you and would like to give you an opportunity to
address this Commission.
Chief Each: Mayor, Commissioners, citizens of the City of Miami, and my
fellow colleagues in the Miami Police Department. First of all, on behalf of
the Bauer family, let me express their sincere gratitude and thanks for your
wonderful contribution to the reward. On behalf of the members of the North
Miami Police Department, let me express my personal thanks to you, the fine
City of Miami, for that reward. Undoubtedly, that reward, coupled with the
other monies, helped us make the case. Hopefully, we won't have another
tragedy like this. But during these times of tragedy, when our sister city,
the City of Miami, came forward and helped us in so many ways. Not only with
the reward, but with manpower and moral support. You know, we're one
community even though we're different cities, we're one people, one community.
And I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you again.
Mayor Colodny: Just echoing what the Chief has indicated, the actions of the
City of Miami which were brought to us, and I think it's significant, without
our request and without our solicitation, but based on the understanding and
the appreciation of the situation by this City and its leadership, created a
situation, and I think the Chief adequately said it, that was as significant
as any other act in allowing us to apprehend the individuals involved in the
murder of Detective Sergeant Steve Bauer. Last week on the 14th, which was
before the Saturday when the arrests were made, the City of North Miami issued
the following proclamation: Whereas the heart of the entire North Miami
community has been saddened by the untimely, tragic death of Detective
Sergeant Steven Bauer; and whereas in this time of community mourning the City
of Miami and its leadership have magnanimously and unselfi3hly given their
support in our efforts to apprehend the perpetrators of this dastardly act;
13
January 23, 1992
and whereas by the furnishing of $50,000 in reward money, the City of Miami
has shown itself to be a thoughtful and compassionate neighbor, and whereas
the City of Miami; the Police Department... excuse me, whereas the City of
North Miami, the Police Department of the City of North Miami and the Bauer
family sincerely appreciate the noble and sensitive gesture of the City of
Miami. Now, therefore in consideration of the foregoing I, Mike Colodny, as
Mayor of the City of North Miami, on behalf of the entire council and
citizens, do publicly recognize, with appreciation and community gratitude, J.
L. Plummer, Jr., Victor De Yurre, Miller Dawkins, Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso and
Mayor Xavier Suarez for their compassionate, generous community interest and
for being a good neighbor and friend during this time of our stress. It's
hard for a city to say thank you, and I think all I can really impart to our
friends and neighbors is that when these individuals leave public life,
whatever other recognitions they may have accomplished and achieved, they will
know in their hearts that through their actions they contributed to helping us
solve and put an end to this terrible, tragic act. As the Chief said,
hopefully we can get together, and work together, in better times. But the
City of Miami, through its actions, has enabled our community to remove that
black stripe which existed on the heart of our community. We sincerely and
humbly thank the City of Miami and its leadership. You've gone way above what
a neighbor is sometimes requested or might otherwise do. We sincerely thank
you.
Mayor Suarez: As one might assume, the Chief informed me that the individuals
who were apprehended and who are accused of this tragic and horrendous crime,
have also been preying on City of Miami residents, and of course, that means
that we ourselves, share in the benefit of that effort, that law enforcement
effort. All right. Thank you once again Chief and Mayor. We do want to be
certainly good neighbors, and we'll be probably turning to you at some point
for reciprocal assistance...
Mayor Colodny: Hopefully in better circumstances.
Mayor Suarez: Absolutely. Hopefully in better circumstances.
14 January 23, 1992
----------------------------------------------------------------------------,--
4. (Continued Discussion) EMERGENCY ORDINANCE: AMEND ORDINANCE 10914
RESTABLISHED
LREVENUE
EVENUESANDAPPROPRIATIONSINTHE AMOUNT HOFE$250,000J($100S000INCREASING FROM THE
DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY [DDA] AND $150,000 FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF
OFF-STREET PARKING EDOSP]) TO COVER COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH ASSISTANCE TO
THE HOMELESS, WITH PROVISO. (See label 1)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayor Suarez: I have been informed that Matthew Schwartz is in fact in
Tallahassee. I'm not sure what he's doing in Tallahassee.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, that's a double whammy. God forbid. Is he up
there representing us? I hope not.
Mayor Suarez: Maybe he's doing the Lord's work on redistricting. I'm the
chairman of the board, in any event, I really should bear the...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, why don't we move then and accept the motion that
Commissioner Plummer made...
Mayor Suarez: Right, with the proviso...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... on the basis, with the understanding that...
Mayor Suarez: Just give me more than one day, please.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... with the understanding that the DDA has certainly
taken into account the recommendations that this Commission made at the time
of the budget.
Mayor Suarez: All right. So moved. The motion is to accept the ordinance,
but with the proviso that DDA must act to provide the $100,000 that are
missing in the formula within the time of the implementation of the ordinance.
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Mr. Jones: I still, from a legal perspective, have a problem with that
because...
Vice Mayor Alonso: I was afraid of that.
Mr. Jones: ... what you're passing or attempting to pass is a conditional
ordinance which may be viewed as an improper delegation.
Mayor Suarez: We've passed a lot of conditional ordinances.
Mr. Jones: I understand that.
15 January 23, 1992
Y
Mayor Suarez: Is there no wording that you can come up with so that we don't
have to...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Be creative.
Mayor Suarez: ... later again vote on this matter, and we can - on the
assumption that the DDA will act properly, as this Commission has required?
Commissioner Dawkins: Let the records reflect that the lawyer advised us that
we were doing wrong and we went ahead and did wrong.
Mr. Jones: The problem...
Commissioner Dawkins: Call the roll.
Mayor Suarez: Anything further that might ease the pain of acting in a way
that...
Vice Mayor Alonso: We follow the rules.
Mayor Suarez: ... Joel, help the spanking new City Attorney to come up with
some wording. Do you want a little time to work on it?
Mr. Jones: We could do that. The only other suggestion I had...
Vice Mayor Alonso: You see.
Mr. Jones: ... which would take it out of the emergency nature would be to
make it a regular ordinance and come back on second reading.
Mayor Suarez: But the Manager needs the action appropriation.
Commissioner Plummer: That's sixty days.
Mr. Jones: Well, that's my whole problem with improper delegation.
Mayor Suarez: The issue is that the DDA has not actually yet tendered the
money. It wanted additional time. This Commission does not want to wait for
that and...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Actually this is a contradiction because...
Commissioner De Yurre: Well, can't we put a...
Mr. Jones: Why don't we do this, Mr. Mayor, if I might suggest...
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait.
Commissioner De Yurre: Why don't we just add a proviso, or whatever, to this
motion that if it's deemed improper, we'll return it.
Mayor Suarez: A rescind.
Commissioner De Yurre: A rescind, you know, whatever.
16 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, but all.
Commissioner De Yurre: Something along those lines.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Exactly, but...
Commissioner De Yurre: And I'm sure by the time, you know, something needs to
be straightened out, it'll be straightened out.
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, my intention is to try get the DDA board to meet as early
as tomorrow, so there would be no implementation of the ordinance.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Exactly, Mr. Mayor, but it's almost a contradiction. At
the time that the budget was approved, this was part of that budget. If it's
not accepted, then what it means is they don't have a budget.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. City Attorney.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Do they?
Commissioner Plummer: Do we have the right...
Mayor Suarez: That's a good point. I don't know how that resolution was
phrased. Go ahead, Commissioner.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then that is a legal...
Commissioner Plummer: Do we have the right to change the budget in midyear of
DDA?
Mr. Jones: No, because...
Commissioner Plummer: Why?
Mr. Jones: ..* there's already been an appropriation that you've... the
budget is already approved.
Commissioner Plummer: You're telling me a budget cannot be reallocated? Is
that what you're telling me?
Mr. Jones: It's already been approved.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Conditioned...
Commissioner Plummer: We approve a budget here everyday.
Mr. Jones: You can reallocate funds within it, but that's... you've already
appropriated the money for it and you've approved their budget.
Commissioner Plummer: You're not listening to me. Do we, the City Commission
who approve their budget each and every year, have the right to reallocate
during the year?
17 January 23, 1992
lb 4
Mr. Jones: Yes, during the.. reallocation, yes.
Commissioner Plummer: That's fine. I make a motion at this time, or instruct
the Manager to place on the next City Commission agenda, the DDA budget for
reconsideration.
Mayor Suarez: So moved.
Commissioner Plummer: And I'll guarantee you the first move I'm going to make
is to reduce Matthew Schwartz by fifty percent of his salary.
Mayor Suarez: So moved as to the reconsideration.
Commissioner Plummer: Let's see if we can't get their attention.
Mayor Suarez: Any discussion? If not, please call the roll. This motion is
a collateral motion. It takes precedence over the first motion. It does not
cancel it. But we'll go back to the first motion that the DDA budget be
reconsidered at the next Commission meeting.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. Sir, I'm just asking that as a request.
I'm sorry.
Mayor Suarez: Ok. I'm sorry. I thought you were making it into a motion.
All right, on the item in chief, do we have a motion and a second, I believe?
Ok.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: With the proviso, of course, that the DDA monies be made
available before the implementation of the ordinance and that, hopefully, can
be done as early as tomorrow.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah.
Mayor Suarez: So moved.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Moved and seconded.
Mayor Suarez: And seconded. Any further discussion? If not, please read the
ordinance with that modification.
i
18 January 23, 1992
AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED -
AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 109149
ADOPTED SEPTEMBER 11, 1991, WHICH ESTABLISHED A
SPECIAL REVENUE FUND ENTITLED "HOMELESS PROJECT",
THEREBY INCREASING REVENUES AND APPROPRIATIONS IN THE
AMOUNT OF $250,000, CONSISTING OF ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND
DOLLARS ($100,000) FROM THE DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT
AUTHORITY, SUBJECT TO DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
BOARD APPROVAL, AND ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND
($150,000) FROM THE OFF-STREET PARKING AUTHORITY TO
COVER DIRECT COSTS RELATED TO ASSISTING HOMELESS
PERSONS IN THE CITY OF MIAMI; CONTAINING A REPEALER
PROVISION AND A SEVERABILITY CLAUSE.
Was introduced by Commissioner Alonso and seconded by Commissioner De
Yurre, for adoption as an emergency measure and dispensing with the
requirement of reading same on two separate days, which was agreed to by the
following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
Whereupon the Commission on motion of Commissioner Alonso and seconded
by Commissioner De Yurre, adopted said ordinance by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
SAID ORDINANCE WAS DESIGNATED ORDINANCE NO. 10944.
The City Attorney read the ordinance into the public record and
announced that copies were available to the members of the City Commission and
to the public.
COMMENTS MADE AFTER ROLL CALL:
Mayor Suarez: I do want the board to know - this Commission to know that I
have just given instructions to convene the DDA Board on an emergency session
tomorrow by fax or letter or the other appropriate means, phone calls, and I
19 January 23, 1992
intend to convey your consensus of this Commission and your instructions
rather emphatically. It has been a painful effort, and I think precedent
setting to have the City, DDA, Off -Street Parking Authority and all these
agencies that have, for many years, claimed that they're totally autonomous
all of a sudden sort of reined in and required to contribute to an effort that
they themselves have been urging upon us to take. And so now I think it's a
very fair approach that we have taken and, hopefully, you will contact your
appointees to the DDA board and make sure that this is understood clearly by
them, but to the extent that I can convey it to them, I certainly will. Vice
Mayor...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: ... you had an item.
Commissioner Plummer: Just a short statement.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: I guess what bothers me more than anything is the fact
that I don't know of a single issue in downtown Miami that is more important
than addressing the issue of the problem of the homeless. And they want to
sit here and play games. I don't understand. As you will recall, we had to
beat them in the head to get the hundred and fifty thousand out of their - a
million and a half dollars. And I have to question, Mr. Mayor, when it's more
important to the DDA that worries about sidewalks and trees than they do about
what I consider, and I think most people consider, the most important issue.
Mayor Suarez: That's fair enough, but I do ask that you... you've been here a
long time and you're familiar with all of these agencies. This particular one
has a very special status. They have an additional half a mil, that they
impose on themselves and they have... they're a creature of State law, it was
built in that the Mayor of the City of Miami be the chairman of that board. I
have offered a few times to see if some of you would like to be in that
capacity ex-officio and you have suggested...
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, I'd like to do it to abolish it.
Mayor Suarez: ... that, that not be the case. So, I'm not saying you're
talking out of both sides of your mouth, but I am saying that please
understand the taxing powers and the way that that entity is set up. It's not
all that different in the sense what happened with the Off -Street Parking
Authority. We wanted to contain and control them. We have to go to a charter
amendment in that case. We won part of it, we lost the other part. At least
we got to have our City Attorney be their attorney instead of them paying
$300,000 a year or more to outside counsel. Now, we're recovering substantial
amounts of money. This year when we gave them the instruction that you
suggested, Vice Mayor and the rest of this Commission, the Off -Street Parking
Authority could not argue against it. It had been a battle that I know
Commissioner Dawkins had been fighting for many years, too, to get some of
their excess revenues, and they came in with $150,000. DDA had wanted to do
it by first doing the pilot program and do it in a special sequence.
20 January 23, 1992
4*, W
Obviously, this Commission did not see that as complying with our resolution,
and that's going to be conveyed to them. But it's not as easy as it sounds to
just tell an agency of this sort what we want them to do. And if someone
would take the time, or if you would take the time Commissioner, I really
would appreciate it because it's... when you go back to them, when you te11
them what we've done, they say well - and you know, by the way, our City
Attorney does sit with DDA as counselor to the DDA, and being Joel Maxwell,
the way he is, eighty percent of what we want to do is found to be not quite
legal. So, we have to adjust, and we have the same kinds of impediments from
the technical aspect of life as we do with this Commission. That can be a
little frustrating, too. I know he acts in good faith, and I know he gives us
all the good legal advice, but, then he tells the DDA, well technically, you
know, the Commission can't do this or technically this is the way it's got to
be done. All these technicalities sometimes really, really impede the clear
intent... - Mr. Cook, it's good to have you here, sir. We've been saying
actually, comparatively good things about the Off -Street Parking Authority as
we...
Commissioner Plummer: Just wait.
Mayor Suarez: ... have been bashing the DDA so it's a good day for your
authority, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Just wait.
Mr. Clark Cook: Thank you very much.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Vice Mayor Alonso had an item.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, but before I do, I have just a question, and I want
some sort of clarification from Mr. Jones, I'm a little bit disturbed in this
question of the budget and DDA. When we approved the budget, it was part of
the agreement that this money was going to come, and it was allocated, and
there was no conflict whatsoever. It was accepted and the budget was approved
as such. So we don't really have any point of conflict right now. If the
budget was approved as such at that particular time, it should not be any
conflict whatsoever. It has been assigned. The money is available in that
direction, or the DDA do not have a legal, an approved budget.
Commissioner Plummer: That's why I asked for it to be at the next Commission
meeting.
Vice Mayor Alonso: What is the legal answer. Because I don't see any point
of conflict here. I think it's something that was done, legally and properly
done by this Commission and something that doesn't have any space or room for
any sort of discussion. Is it?
Mr. Jones: Dr. Alonso, going back to Commissioner Plummer's question earlier
as to whether, in fact, this was a line item. Again, I'm not sure in that
regard. But I think there seems to be a source of controversy because this
Commission directed DDA to spend ten percent of their budget on the homeless.
In talking with Mr. Schwartz, I think there seems to be some confusion as
to... - I understand that there was a previous loan of $75,000...
21 January 23, 1992
U
D
11
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Jones: ... and there seems to be some source of confusion now that
they're being instructed, or have been instructed, to come up with an
additional $1500000 in cash, which they've taken the position it's not part of
their budget that was passed by this Commission. So, that seems to be the
source of confusion.
Mayor Suarez: Well, the Commission did say that ten percent of the entire
budget had to be, quote, unquote, I think, reserved or earmarked, or left
available for homelessness.
Mr. Jones: That's correct.
Mayor Suarez: I think J. L. that,...
Vice Mayor Alonso: He made it very clear.
Mayor Suarez: ... and Vice Mayor, that it was not stated to have any effect
j beyond that. In other words, as long as ten percent was in fact kept
available, they were within our resolution's purposes and import. We, I
think, meant to say like the Off -Street Parking Authority, you all come back
and give us $150,000 from this particular fiscal year...
i
Vice Mayor Alonso: And they indeed came back.
Mayor Suarez: ... and I don't think the resolution was worded that way.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, that...
r
Mayor Suarez: Although in the case of the tiff -Street Parking, they certainly
understood it that way.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then, Mr. Mayor, then there is a problem. Every time we
make a final decision and we understand it to be one way, then it ends up that
it's written a different way. We have many cases in court because the wording
is not what we meant then you have to back and review everything. Why is it
happening so often? Something has to be done to stop this system.
Mayor Suarez: And in some cases, what you point out is particularly true
because sometimes the resolution doesn't get signed until, although we are
catching up, it doesn't get signed until, what, two, three, four weeks after
the actual decision and...
Comrnissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: ... motion of this Commission and in that period of time we all
go through certain arguments between the City Attorney, City Manager and my
office to figure out exactly what this Commission did. Now the Commission
also is at fault sometimes because sometimes when you read the transcript,
it's not all that clear what we did. So, folks, in our urge to get these
items done, it is true as the Vice Mayor is pointing out, that we have to be
very clear and possibly, on items of this kind of importance, get that
resolution drafted, get it in front of us and get it signed right on the day
22 January 23, 1992
of the Commission. Is there any legal impediment that keeps us from doing
that, other than the practicalities of it?
Mr. Jones: No other than the pract... I think we'll be able to do it now
since I have additional help, sir.
Mayor Suarez: OK, and really that would make this Commission that much more
effective and expedient...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
'i Mayor Suarez: Yeah. And I think my...
Commissioner Plummer: Is it within our purview, since that there is...
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner Dawkins yields to you, once again.
Commissioner Plummer: ..e within our purview that there is a
misunderstanding, are we within our legal right to freeze their budget until
such time as they do have an understanding? Is that legal?
Mr. Jones: Commissioner, that's something I won't "shoot from the hip" and
give you an answer. I'd have to research it.
Mayor Suarez: He's learning.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, aren't you their legal counsel?
Mr. Jones: Yes, we are.
Commissioner Plummer: And you're not versed on what they can do and what they
can't?
Mr. Jones: I'm not versed in that respect as to whether it would be proper
for you to freeze their budget. Certainly, I will look at it and get back
with you.
Commissioner Plummer: Well obviously there's a misunderstanding between them
and us and, if that's the case, I think we should freeze their budget until
such time as there is a clear understanding.
Mayor Suarez: The import... I understand the import of the motion that was
previously passed to be that, as quickly as one can feasibly get the board
together, that they be told that for their continued operation and health,
they have to appropriate these monies. If that isn't done, we can always take
up your suggestion of freezing the budget. If that can legally be done, it
gives the City Attorney a little bit of time to explore that, and that can be
done on the 13th of February.
Vice Mayor Alonso: One...
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor.
23 January 23, 1992
F
Vice Mayor Alonso: I wasn't finished when he interrupted me. Well, let him
go.
Commissioner Dawkins: Sorry.
Mayor Suarez: Vice Mayor yields to Commissioner Dawkins then.
Commissioner Dawkins: Point of information for my four fellow Commissioners.
I am leaving here at nine o'clock p.m. tonight. If we have not covered
nothing but the item that we're on now,...
Commissioner Plummer: If we finish it...
Commissioner Dawkins: I will be leaving at nine o'clock.
Mayor Suarez: All right. 1 do want to point out Commissioner Dawkins that we
have taken a couple of items out of order at his request related to
districting, and Tallahassee lobbying, and the food and beverage tax.
Mayor Suarez: So, you know, we really should go through the agenda.
Commissioner Plummer: The only question I have is, if we finish at six, is he
going to stay here until nine?
Commissioner Dawkins: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: Actually, I have to leave earlier than that, and I may just to
i
have to leave before we've finished our business today for personal reasons.
Vice Mayor Alonso: One last comment for the record.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: One last comment for the records. It's very disturbing to
me that at the time that I gave my vote, and everything seems to be crystal
clear, then when it comes back to us, then it's not what we meant, meaning
whatever vote I gave, didn't mean anything. Because it was changed. Maybe I
would have said no. So I want to be certain that when I vote, what seems to
me clear at the time, is exactly what happened. Nothing else. Because maybe
the result of my vote will be completely different. So I want to be sure that
once I vote, that item remains exactly the way it was presented to us.
Nothing else. I don't think that's much to ask. That's what it should be.
And that's something that is very disturbing to me, that is being changed... I
recall specific instances in the last year where I recall cases that maybe I
would have said something else. So, it's very important that the legal
department be certain that whatever is said in this Commission, that stays
exactly with the intent of our motion and our vote. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Commissioner Plummer: This is Matthew Schwartz's way of telling us he's going
to do what the hell he wants.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well.
24 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Well, we're really beating this one up.
5. DISCUSSION WITH REPRESENTATIVES OF HURRICANE MOORING SYSTEMS CONCERNING
PROPOSED PLAN TO SERVE AS A SAFE HAVEN FOR BOATS DURING A HURRICANE
SITUATION -- DIRECT ADMINISTRATION TO DRAFT A REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL (RFP)
BASED ON OUTLINED GUIDELINES AND TO EXPLORE POSSIBILITY OF MAKING THE
MARINE STADIUM AVAILABLE.
Commissioner De Yurre: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, Commissioner.
Commissioner De Yurre: My turn now.
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner De Yurre.
Commissioner De Yurre: I just have one emergency item which I think is
important to all of us. We have here representatives of the Hurricane Mooring
Systems and, as you know, we're trying to find some safe haven for boats
during hurricane situations. They needed to come before us. They're
somewhere around here, if they could just step up a minute and make a quick
presentation.
Mr. Roger Snider: Good. Out of respect for your time, thank you very much
for asking me, Commissioners, Mr. Mayor. My name is Roger Snider. You know
me in other capacities, I'm sure. Certainly one of those is a active
participant in the marine community's efforts at enhancing its value to the
community. What we have here is a question of protecting that asset. I was
here one day when Mr. Plummer remarked to a renter out here in the marina that
indeed the City of Miami values that new marina, and as you well know the
existing contract forces these boats out into a never, never land where they
cannot legally do anything to protect themselves, and all the other things
that they do, wouldn't work anyway. We have, after three years of working at
workshops including the City of Miami Waterfront Advisory Board, the Dade
County Biscayne Bay Management Committee, Marine Council, the Audubon Society,
etcetera, we have worked with concerned environmental groups to try to come up
with a composite idea that represents the distillation of everything we know
about hurricanes and what we ought to do about it to protect these boats. I
was fortunate enough to have visited down in Tortola, the British Virgin
Islands, shortly after the Hugo massacre there of St. Croix, and the
destruction of the boats and the homes, it was massive, with the exception of
one place. In Paraquita Lagoon, where one hundred sailboats rafted up in a
system much more primitive than the one that we have devised, literally
enabled all one hundred of those boats to survive without a scratch. They are
so happy with that, they're expanding the system. We have been working back
and forth, my company, with the Virgin Islands to refine this. I have given
you a brochure. To anybody that's interested, we have more of these. What we
would like to ask the City to do in response to our self -education is to
further raise our hopes that we can put this in a place. We last tried it,
and had to defer on the zoning hearing because of unfulfilled State
25 January 23, 1992
requirements up in Maul Lake. One of the problems we're going to have with
Maul Lake is that the neighborhood thinks that somehow that's an imposition on
its back yard. Rather than argue the merits of that, what they said to us
was, why don't you guys put it in the Marine Stadium? And I said, well those
are my very original thoughts. I think that if we go back to that, what I
would like to ask you to do is to have the City Attorney or whoever
contemplate this as a business proposition, see what parameters we would have
to operate under, see whether a request for proposal or anything would even be
necessary, whatever requirements you have. What I would like to suggest that
you do is that you encourage staff to work along with us on the prospects. In
terms of revenues, there would probably be one hundred to maybe as much as a
hundred and thirty thousand dollars every year once this thing is in place and
built into the bottom of the Marine Stadium. It would in no way impede the
progress that we make there with all of our boat races, and the other uses of
the stadium, and it's a found bit of money. I guess that's it. I know I
haven't covered everything. I wish there were more people who more eloquently
could say all this than I, but...
Commissioner De Yurre: Let me interject here. Mr. Mayor, I think what we're
looking for is to instruct the Administration to analyze whether we have to go
through an RFP (request for proposals) process, or whatever the legal
ramifications are, but to see if we can make available the Marine Stadium. It
doesn't impact at all on the use of the Stadium once... if you know what the
system is all about...
Mr. Odio: I looked at the system and the system is very good. I was told
that we have to go out on an RFP...
Commissioner De Yurre: OK. Well,...
Mr. Odio: ... and that people will have to bid on it and whoever, you
know,...
Commissioner De Yurre: OK. Then, you know, I would instruct and make a
motion at this time directing the Administration to prepare an RFP based on
the guidelines that we have here...
Mr. Odio: OK.
Commissioner De Yurre: ... so we can proceed with this. It's something
that's necessary for the boating community, and I think that it's something
that is very worthwhile.
Mr. Odio: Yes, sir.
Mr. Snider: Is that it?
Commissioner De Yurre: Yes, all I said was... hold, hold.
Mr. Snider: Thank you very much for your kindness.
Commissioner De Yurre: Hold on a second. Are you going to second, Miller?
Commissioner Dawkins: Yeah. Second.
26 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Moved and seconded. Any discussion? If not, please call the
roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner De Yurre, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-44
A RESOLUTION DIRECTING THE CITY ADMINISTRATION TO
PREPARE A REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS ("RFP") SOLICITING
PROPOSALS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT AND IMPLEMENTATION OF A
SYSTEM TO SAFEGUARD BOATS MOORED AT THE MARINE STADIUM
DURING HURRICANES; FURTHER DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER
TO BRING SAID RFP BACK TO THE CITY COMMISSION FOR
APPROVAL PRIOR TO ITS ISSUANCE.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Dawkins, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL:
Commissioner Plummer: That RFP will come back to us for approval, won't it?
Mr. Odio: Yes. Yes.
6. CONFIRM TWO ELECTED EMPLOYEE MEMBERS TO SERVE ON THE CIVIL SERVICE
BOARD. (Elected were: Steve Smigelski and Orlando Llamas).
Commissioner Plummer: You want another pocket item?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. I have one.
Commissioner Plummer: Go ahead. Go ahead.
Mayor Suarez: Vice Mayor.
27 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Mayor Suarez: Emergency.
Vice Mayor Alonso: And this is an item that has to do with accepting the
results of the election of Civil Service Board employee elections and it was
supposed to be part of our regular agenda today, but it was not included. So
I'd like to move that we accept the names of the winners of that election. In
seat number one, Steve Smigelski - eighty-one percent; seat two, Orlando
Llamas got fifty-eight points - sixty-two percent. And I move that we confirm
these two names at this time.
Commissioner Dawkins: Second.
Mayor Suarez: So moved and seconded. Any discussion? If not, please call
the roll accepting the results of the election.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Alonso, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-45
A RESOLUTION CONFIRMING TWO ELECTED EMPLOYEE MEMBERS
TO SERVE ON THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD OF THE CITY OF
MIAMI, FLORIDA.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Dawkins, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
28 January 23, 1992
------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------
7. AMEND RESOLUTION 92-18 CONCERNING THE UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI CHAMPIONSHIP
PARADE TO CELEBRATE MIAMI HURRICANES VICTORY AT THE ORANGE BOWL --
INCREASE IN -KIND SERVICES.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayor Suarez: Item 2.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: I'm sorry. Commissioner Plummer.
Commissioner Plummer: And this is tomorrow. That's the only reason I'm
bringing it up. The University of Miami parade downtown. They're having
anticipation larger than expected, and I'd like to increase the amount of City
participation from sixty-five hundred to ten thousand dollars, which is
recommended by the Manager. I so move.
Mayor Suarez: So moved.
Commissioner Dawkins: Run that by me again.
Commissioner Plummer: The parade tomorrow downtown.
Commissioner Dawkins: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: The national champions, University of Miami...
Commissioner Dawkins: Fifty-five thousand dollars.
Commissioner Plummer: ... we... Sixty-five hundred.
Commissioner Dawkins: Oh, OK.
Commissioner Plummer: And to ten thousand.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Second.
Mayor Suarez: Moved and seconded. Any discussion? If not, please call the
roll.
29 January 23, 1992
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-46
A RESOLUTION AMENDING SECTION 4 OF RESOLUTION NO., 92-
18, ADOPTED JANUARY 9, 1992, RELATED TO THE
"UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI CHAMPIONSHIP PARADE" TO BE
CONDUCTED BY THE CITY OF MIAMI AND METROPOLITAN DADE
COUNTY ON FRIDAY, JANUARY 24, 1992, TO CELEBRATE THE
MIAMI HURRICANES VICTORY AT THE ORANGE BOWL, THEREBY
INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF IN -KIND SERVICES TO BE
PROVIDED BY THE CITY FOR SAID PARADE FROM $6,500 TO
$10,000 AND INCLUDING THE PROVISION OF SERVICES FROM
THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS AND CONFERENCES,
CONVENTIONS AND PUBLIC FACILITIES.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Alonso, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL:
Commissioner Plummer: I can't hear you. Are you calling collect? Hello.
Mayor Suarez: Now we're going to get a new sound system.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, now she has problems, too.
Mayor Suarez: Now we're going to get a new sound system here. The City
Clerk's mike doesn't work.
Commissioner Plummer: Hello. Hello. Hello.
Ms. Hirai: Mr. Ron Williams. We would love to hear. Why is it taking that
long? The Plummer... Commissioner Plummer's mike is not working.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, the mike is trying to tell him something.
Ms. Hirai: I know. Do you vote yes, sir?
Commissioner Plummer: What am I voting on? Hello.
30 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Your motion. Your motion on the Hurricanes parade.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. (A) EMERGENCY ORDINANCE: AMEND ORDINANCE 10938 -- INCREASE TOTAL
APPROPRIATION TO CAPITAL PROJECT: ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION -
PHASE II (Project 404238) BY $7,000,000, FROM PROFESSIONAL SPORTS
FRANCHISE FACILITY TAX BONDS PROCEEDS ALLOCATED TO THE ORANGE BOWL
BY METROPOLITAN DADE COUNTY RESOLUTION OF INTENT R-1414-91.
(B) BRIEF COMMENTS BY VICE MAYOR ALONSO INDICATING THAT THE PREVIOUSLY
INSTITUTED COMMISSION AWARENESS PROGRAM WAS NOT BEING FOLLOWED BY
ADMINISTRATION.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayor Suarez: Item 2, emergency ordinance.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Yes. Orange Bowl Modernization Phase II.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. First of all, in item 2 and 3, I'd like to make
clear that through the "Awareness Program," somehow this is not working that
well in the City of Miami. As you know, I am the Commissioner in charge of
public facilities, and I find disturbing that quite often, all of these items
get into the agenda before coming to me, first of all. Second, then often
enough, like five o'clock or four thirty, the day before, everyone wants to
rush into my office to discuss everything with me. I find this is unfair, and
in matters of... as important as this of the Orange Bowl, I find and demand, I
have done this before, and I am doing it again, that it has to be discussed
with whoever is in charge, it happened to be that I am the person in charge of
this, and I insist one more time that we should follow the rules of this
Commission, or avoid them altogether. Because I feel that this is an exercise
in futility, and I say it over and over again that the rules are not followed.
I have a question in reference to number 2. We are increasing the amount to
seven million, meaning this is giving us the impression that we are going to
accept a bid higher than the stipulated amount of six million as the bid was
presented before.
Mayor Suarez: Excuse me, Commissioner, because we are getting some
interruptions here on the sound system. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga, sir, until you
are recognized, have a seat. Have a seat. You don't have the use of the
podium, the mike, and every thing else, and moving them around, and testing
them, et cetera. Thank you. I'm sorry.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, I need an answer in reference. We are saying here
that we are increasing the amount to seven million, and I am disturbed to see
the implication of the increase to seven million, it has to do with item
number 3, in which the bid as presented was for 6 million, meaning that we are
going to go higher than 6 million?
Mr. Cesar Odio: No. What it means...
31 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Why are we going to seven?
Mr. Odio: What it means on item 2, is that we are accepting seven million
dollars from the professional sports tax.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then we are delighted, and then I speak to item 3. Thank
you.
Mr. Odio: We accept... we have seven free million...
Mayor Suarez: OK. Well, we will have the confrontation on item 3, because
apparently there is quite a few...
Mr. Odio: No, I need to clarify something, if I may, and I...
Mayor Suarez: Well, maybe, you ought to leave it for item 3.
Commissioner Alonso: Yes, Item 3. I so move that we accept number 2.
Mr. Odio: OK.
Mayor Suarez: So moved on item 2.
Commissioner Plummer: Second, of course.
Mayor Suarez: Second. Any discussion on item 2? If not, please read the
ordinance. Call the roll, please.
AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED -
AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 1 OF ORDINANCE
NO. 10938, AS ADOPTED DECEMBER 5, 1991, THE CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT APPROPRIATIONS ORDINANCE, BY INCREASING
THE TOTAL APPROPRIATION TO THE CAPITAL PROJECT
ENTITLED "ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION - PHASE II",
PROJECT NO. 404238, BY $7,000,000; SAID AMOUNT TO BE
MADE AVAILABLE FROM THE PROFESSIONAL SPORTS FRANCHISE
FACILITY TAX BONDS PROCEEDS ALLOCATED TO THE ORANGE
BOWL BY METROPOLITAN DADE COUNTY RESOLUTION OF INTENT
NO. R-1515-91, ADOPTED DECEMBER 19, 1991, WITH CASH
FLOW TO BE PROVIDED THROUGH A TEMPORARY LOAN FROM
SPECIAL ASSESSMENT LIENS FUND; CONTAINING A REPEALER
PROVISION AND SEVERABILITY CLAUSE.
Was introduced by Vice Mayor Alonso and seconded by Commissioner
Plummer, for adoption as an emergency measure and dispensing with the
requirement of reading same on two separate days, which was agreed to by the
following vote:
32 January 23, 1992
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
Whereupon the Commission on motion of Vice Mayor Alonso and seconded by
Commissioner Plummer, adopted said ordinance by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J.L. Plummer
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
SAID ORDINANCE WAS DESIGNATED ORDINANCE N0. 10945.
The City Attorney read the ordinance into the public record and
announced that copies were available to the members of the City Commission and
to the public.
------- ----------------------------------------------- - - - -
E, 9. (A) DISCUSS AND TEMPORARILY TABLE CONSIDERATION OF PROPOSED RESOLUTION
TO ACCEPT BID AND TO EXECUTE CONTRACT FOR ORANGE BOWL
MODERNIZATION PROJECT - PHASE II (1992) - JOIST REPLACEMENT AND
RESTROOM FACILITIES IMPROVEMENT (B-2321-E)
(B) BRIEF DISCUSSION CONCERNING CITY COMMISSION AWARENESS PROGRAM.
(C) CITY COMMISSION CRITICIZES ADMINISTRATION FOR ERROR IN AGENDA
PACKET AS WELL AS WORDING USED IN DRAFTING CITY BIDS.
a (D) CITY COMMISSION QUESTIONS ADMINISTRATION CONCERNING MALFUNCTIONING
OF BATHROOMS AT THE ORANGE BOWL.
(E) CITY COMMISSION DIRECTS MANAGER TO DRAFT NEW PURCHASING AND
BIDDING GUIDELINES FOR THE CITY. [Note: Discussion of Orange
IA Bowl Modernization Program continues on label 18.]
W,
Vice Mayor Alonso: Now, item 3, Mr. Mayor. I have several problems. First
of all, the...
Commissioner Plummer: Madam Vice Mayor, if I may, please.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
33 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Just to set the record straight. Prior to this City
Commission establishing a "Commission Awareness Program," I was designated by
this Commission to do all of the aspects of the Orange Bowl of... even going
back to the negotiations with the University of Miami, and the Orange Bowl
Committee, and at such time it was made... during those negotiations, this
Commission, at the recommendation of the administration, made certain
commitments as to what would be done, and more importantly, the timeliness of
those appropriations. So I want you to know that long before we had a
"Commission Awareness Program" that I was deeply involved. Now, I am not in
any way trying to deny you or any other Commissioner here the right of
Information.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I want you to know Commissioner Plummer, that it's crystal
clear to me and to every member of this Commission what you are saying, and it
has nothing to do with the "Awareness Program," and the content, and where
should an item appear or not within the agenda. And if something was approved
by this Commission, it should be followed or, as I say, I have no problem,
change the regulations and then we will abide with whatever new regulations
exist; but it's very disturbing to see the things that are happening, and how
we ignore the "Awareness Program." And, by the way, I believe very strongly
that it has been working fine before, and it's an efficient, and I had doubts
at the time that it was requested, but I think it does help because it gives
us an opportunity to be familiar with an item, and to defend it in whatever
position, and give the confidence to the rest of the members of this
Commission that it's something that is worthwhile. I have a lot of problems
with item number 3. The first problem that I have is very basic. I got a
package on my backup, all of you got, and if you examine what you were given
in item number 3, it has nothing to do with what we have to vote. It has to
do with Claughton Island, not with Orange Bowl; and it's disturbing to me to
see the content. I got a package that says that a certain contractor by the
name of 'D' that... it's listed as a Hispanic minority contractor, then it
explains that he is going to be doing a job, repair work to Claughton Island
Bridge, which connects SE 8th Street over Biscayne Bay to Claughton Island.
The amount of that...
Mayor Suarez: That's pretty far away from the Orange Bowl, I'll tell you
that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Exactly. The amount listed in this package, which seems
to me, and I need really explanations why, in something that I have to vote,
I'm given information that it's a minority contractor when in fact, it is not,
I am given one name when in fact, there are six. I am given an amount of a
hundred and thirty-nine thousand three hundred and forty-two, when in fact, we
are talking about seven million. I am very disturbed to see that I am given a
package to study that has nothing to do with the real package that I was given
this morning after I made it very clear yesterday in the afternoon that I was,
to say the least, disturbed.
Mr. Odio: Well, I think you are absolutely right, Commissioner, and I am
asking Aurelio, who puts the agenda together, why. Maybe when they were
putting the... that they made a mistake. The fact is we do have the bids in
for the Orange Bowl Modernization Project that... there were six of them, that
we are projecting that we will only spend the... at this time, we are going to
remove the paint contract from it because...
34 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, I was going to request that and I told Wally Lee, but
let me ask another question. How in the world Claughton Island get involved
with the Orange Bowl?
Mr. Odio: This is a mistake that was made at the time the agenda was put
together, that's all I can say. And I am going to find out...
Vice Mayor Alonso: But the typing was also wrong.
Mr. Odio: You are absolutely right. Somebody made a mistake...
Vice Mayor Alonso: The label is completely wrong!
Mr. Odio: ... in the computer, and I am...
Vice Mayor Alonso: How in the world?
Mr. Odio: ... I'm surprised to see that... it's the first time I have seen an
agenda mistake like this, after so many agendas were put together, so it's a
human error. So, I apologize for it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You see, the human error, is extensive, because the label
is Orange Bowl, the content has nothing with the Orange Bowl...
Mr. Odio: It is a bad mistake.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... then you continue it in the package, and indeed, this
is right, it's Orange Bowl.
Mr. Odio: They made a mistake. They made a mistake in printing. I'm sorry,
I apologize to you, it's a human error, in the era of computers.
Vice Mayor Alonso: When did they find out that this was done? Why the
package this morning?
Mr. Odio: When did you find out you had a mistake?
Mr. Wally Lee: A couple of days ago, I found out.
Vice Mayor Alonso: But you did. How in the world you didn't come to us and
say, members of the Commission, Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, this is wrong, the
package in which you believe the contract is for a hundred and thirty-nine
thousand, is indeed a seven million contract. I mean, it's a great difference
approving a contract of a hundred and thirty-nine thousand and a contract
worth seven million. And a contract...
Mr. Odio: Again I'll repeat, Commissioner, you are absolutely right.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... a contract in which half that contract goes to
painting. Three million to paint the Orange Bowl.
Mr. Odio: Wait, let's not take out of context what painting means, and
because the Orange Bowl was not painted thirty years ago, we are spending
35 January 23, 1992
seventy (sic) million dollars today. Painting is not this paint. Painting is
to make sure that that Orange Bowl will never rust again. It is not painting
as you know painting of. It has to be... it has to be done, it is demanded by
the engineers that we protect that structure from corrosion in years to come.
If not, all the money we are spending there today will be blown away. We
feel, however, and we did it two days ago, that the painting contract came in
too high and we want to go out on bids on that part of it, because we feel
it's too high. And we're going to see if we can get the bid lower because...
on a separate award. But it is important that the Orange Bowl is protected
from corrosion which is what painting means.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I couldn't agree more that it has to be protected. We
also inquired how much it will cost, the materials? We found out that the
cost of the materials is two hundred thousand dollars. The rest is labor?
Mr. Lee: Yes, I gave here that figure.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well let me make a suggestion to this administration. We
have homeless people looking for jobs. We have unemployed people in the City
of Miami, I am sure we can find a lot of people who will be willing to paint
the Orange Bowl; and it seems to me that if we spend two hundred thousand in
materials, then we could be using two million to hire people to do the job.
And I assure you that we will find minorities, by the way, none of these
companies are minorities. We will also find local vendors, - these people are
not local vendors - and the money will remain in Miami, and these people will
have an opportunity to have jobs. This is atrocious that half the money of
this bid goes to paint the Orange Bowl, three million from six, to paint the
Orange Bowl. And the material is two hundred thousand, and the rest is labor?
Something is wrong. Something is very wrong!
Mr. Odio: Commissioner, I told you that two days ago, we pulled...
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, you did not, because I haven't talked to you about
this, Mr. City Manager, so you told someone else who was wearing a skirt.
Mr. Odio: And I did not talk you either but... excuse me, Commissioner.
Wally Lee and I met when the bids came in, half an hour after they came in,
and the decision was made then that we will separate the paint contractor out
of the bid.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You know what you should have done? Send to us a memo
telling us that you were going to take this... pull this item from the agenda,
because this isn't right.
Mr. Odio: No, I cannot pull the item off the agenda, because we need to...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, you can... let me put it this way, I am going to
make a motion that we pull item 5 so, you'll see how easy we are going to do
it. Painting of the structure, we are going to pull it, very easily. I am
going to move right now that we pull it. You will see how easily it is done.
Mr. Odio: No, but I don't know why we are arguing, Commissioner. I am
telling you that we agree with you that two days ago when the bids came in, we
decided that the paint contractors' numbers in there were too high and that we
wanted a separate bid. However...
36
January 23, 1992
MEL
Mayor Suarez: How did you decide that they were too high? Did you have an
estimate already in mind for each of the items? Because, and if you did,
maybe, you know, you should have been worried a little bit about it before
this last part of the process, not at the end of it.
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor, we have no way of knowing how the bids are going to come
in.
Mayor Suarez: No, but at some point, you decided this is too much money.
Mr. Odio: After they came in...
Mayor Suarez: It seems, intuitively, to be an incredible amount of money...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Indeed, it is.
Mayor Suarez: ... I gather that it's more than just painting. It's
rustproofing and corrosion resistance materials and all that...
Mr. Odio: We feel that way. We might go...
Vice Mayor Alonso: These are included, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: ... although that breakdown that she gives for materials and
labor sounds quite interesting.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Sealants, waterproofing, they are included in some of the
other line items.
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor, when we made a decision to separate the bid, I asked
Wally Lee to go over to the Law Department to find out if we could legally
separate this.
Mayor Suarez: No, no, I'm sorry, Mr. Manager, but you made a decision to
separate the bids because you had an idea that this was an excessive amount of
money.
Mr. Odio: We feel that it's too high. We do feel that it's too high.
Mayor Suarez: Did you have an estimate prior to going through the process at
all?
Mr. Wally Lee: Yes, we did, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Odio: Yes, we did.
Mayor Suarez: What was that estimate?
Mr. Lee: Between nine hundred thousand and a million two.
Mr. Odio: Yes.
37 January 23, 1992
I
Mayor Suarez: And you had no idea that the only bidder was going to come in,
at how much?
Mr. Odio: No, no, all six bids that came in, came in high.
Mayor Suarez: OK, at how much?
Vice Mayor Alonso: I will tell you on the record why this amount comes so
excessive. It's well known practice that when you put a bid in general basis,
people will put some of the money that they are going to be using to other
things... It's done for the banks, it's done for institutions... If it is not
clearly stated how you want the work done, the contractor is going to put
extra money that he might be needing later on in an item. And what most
appropriate amount, painting! They say, everything goes there, and they use
it and move it according to their needs. Everyone who has been in
construction know this. I know it myself. It's done every day. And what is
the mistake? The mistake is why didn't we make it crystal clear what we
wanted when it comes to the painting? - so that we can save money for the
' taxpayers. It seems to me that... we are trying to repair this serious
project of the Orange Bowl, how come we are going to spend from six million
three in painting the facility.
Mr. Odio: We agree with you, Commissioner.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Something is very funny.
Mr. Odio: We agree with you. That's why we are asking that we will not award
this part of the bid. That we are going out on bids again on the paint job.
i.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then it is very disturbing to me to see it in front of me
for my approval at the time of the Commission. When something like this, you
find out, as you stated, two days ago, then, Mr. City Manager, you should have
said, let's pull this item and notify the members of the Commission of what
was going on, because it's not a very good feeling.
Mr. Odio: I believe that... unless he tells me different, I instructed...
Mr. Lee: Commissioner...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, remember also, and I am going to finish with this,
remember that in this same package, we were given a hundred and thirty-nine
thousand dollars. Also, we were given Claughton Island instead of Orange
Bowl. Everything is funny looking, and this is a serious process. Do you
have explanations?
Mr. Lee: Yes, Commissioner.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Mr. Lee: We were in negotiations until quarter past four yesterday evening
trying to wrap this up. At that time, we determined who the low bidder was.
Law Department and Public Works started preparation of the documents. I
personally informed you of what we were going to do yesterday evening. Where
we were going to eliminate...
=� 38 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: As you recall, you were leaving City Halt and I asked
someone to get you, and for you to come back to my office because I was very
disturbed with what I had seen. First, because I found out that, in fact,
what I thought was the content of a contract, was not, because everything that
I was given before was not. Then you gave me this. Then we went on and I
said, - three million, are you kidding me? Then we went into the total
scenario. It doesn't change anything. According to Mr. Odio, you knew two
days ago. I am disturbed.
Mr. Lee: No, Commissioner...
Vice Mayor Alonso: But in fact, what Mr. Odio is saying, couldn't be true,
and I hate to say this, because, actually, two days before is when you
received the total information. Did you not?
Mr. Odio: The basic decision, Commissioner, I never lie, I never will lie...
Vice Mayor Alonso: I am not saying that you are lying. I am saying the
information is misleading.
Mr. Odio: ... and I resent that. OK? Now, you need to 1 i sten to me now.
I... two days...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Hold it a minute, Mr. Manager!
Mr. Odio: Commissioner, you...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Just a minute, Mr. Manager.
Mr. Odio: ... you have stated that I lied.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor, may I ask that you ask the Manager to...
Mayor Suarez: Please, yes, please, please. Madam Vice...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... control himself.
Mr. Odio: I will control my temper, Commissioner...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, I think it's very important.
Mr. Odlo: ... if you control yourself of calling me a liar.
Mayor Suarez: Folks, we are not in such great disagreement here, and if the
Commissioner, Vice Mayor, can complete her inquiry and of course... let's
all...
Mr. Odio: I'm calm. Now, let me explain one more time, Mr. Mayor,
Commissioners.
Mayor Suarez: Well, the Vice Mayor wanted to make a statement. Mr. Manager,
please, let's follow our procedure.
39 January 23, 1992
Mr. Odio: Yes. May I finish my statement.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: She wants to make a statement.
Mr. Odio: OK.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor, I think it's of utmost importance that the City
Manager keep in control, in order to convey the best information to all of us.
Starting from the tone of voice to the reaction. This is not a personal
aggression, this has nothing to do with the professionalism of you or your
staff. It's a point of clarification that is important to this Commission as
well as the citizens of Miami.
Mr. Odio: I'll be glad to...
Vice Mayor Alonso: To say the least - let me finish please. To say the
least, we have all kinds of misleading information. And as you see, Mr.
Mayor, starting from the package, information amounts... everything is
strange. So, I have every reason to question this item. And I am also very
disturbed to see that he did not pull this item two days ago, when, in fact,
he said he knew all that I am saying today.
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor, let me recap a little what I said.
Mayor Suarez: Mr. Manager.
Mr. Odio: When the bids came in, Mr. Lee came in to see me - said, "Mr.
Manager, I feel that based on the estimates that we had before by the
architect..."
Mayor Suarez: Those estimates were not made public...
Mr. Odio: They were not made public, of course.
Mayor Suarez: ... on the subcategories?
Mr. Odio: No, they were not.
Mr. Lee: Mr. Mayor, may I... let me...
Mr. Odio: Wait, I need to finish, please. Wally said that he felt that the
paint contractor should be excluded from this total package. I said, can we
do this? When we went out on bids, we informed the contractors that they had
this whole thing to bid on, can we legally pull out this line item from this
bid, without having a delay on issuing the joist part of the contract which
has to be done now? I told him to go to the Law Department, he has been
working with the Law Department in how to handle this bid process without
having to go again into a protest and delaying this whole job at the Orange
Bowl. He finally came back to me yesterday, late in the afternoon, to tell me
that after working with the Law Department, that yes, we could pull out the
paint part of the contract without having a conflict and again delaying the
joist part of the Orange Bowl. So, based on that, I said OK, Wally, please,
40 January 23, 1992
go right now to each of the Commissioners and the Mayor and inform them that
when we come up with this item tomorrow, we will be pulling out the three
point seven million dollars for the paint and just going with the joist part
of the contract, which we have to start work tomorrow, if we can.
Mayor Suarez: And it's a total, chronological coincidence that all of this
happened the very day before we had to act on 1t?
Mr. Odio: Yes. Because what happened, Mr. Mayor, the bids only came in...
Mayor Suarez: We couldn't have had forty-eight hours?... I mean, I had one
group this morning...
Mr. Odio: Yes, I know.
Mayor Suarez: ... at twenty minutes to nine that wanted to meet me on... in
effect, a protest because, I guess the implication of what you are asking us
to do may be that what was otherwise the number one bidder would now be the
number two bidder.
Mr. Odio: That's correct.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's another story.
Mayor Suarez: And so we've got now the legal conflict here, and all of this
just by incredible coincidence was worked out three o'clock yesterday. It
could not have been worked out before with a memoranda to the Commissioners?
Mr. Odio: We couldn't.
Mayor Suarez: And by the way, when you say about Commission awareness, let me
add another thing. At the request and suggestion of Commissioner Dawkins,
this Commission asked me to take a particular interest in making sure that the
modernization of the Orange Bowl took place in time to fulfill commitments
otherwise made. So now there is at least three of us in the pot here. You
historically, the Commissioner under the systematic Commission awareness, the
Vice Mayor, and myself, at the request and suggestion of Commissioner Dawkins.
I have not been keeping up with this as much as I should have, but I wonder
that I was not advised of these problems at all actually - maybe you tried to
reach me yesterday and I wasn't available, but, frankly, in the afternoons the
day before a Commission meeting, is a bit late. It's just a coincidence? I
mean, all of this came to a head the day before a Commissioner meeting?...
Mr. Odio: It is...
Mr. Lee: Commissioner...
Mayor Suarez: ... and it will affect the number one versus the number two
bidder and we are supposed to...
Mr. Lee: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: ... not think that something is strange? And then I am looking
at this contractor's fax sheet, are we supposed to believe that whatever this
41 January 23, 1992
is for, and apparently it has nothing to do with the Orange Bowl, that there
is a contractor named 'D'? Or is that just a category 'D' or what?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, I've been wondering.
Mayor Suarez: Is there somebody named 'D' out there or is that just category
'D' of some sort?
Vice Mayor Alonso: And why did he end up in this...
Mayor Suarez: In this package.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... package?
Mayor Suarez: Anyhow...
Vice Mayor Alonso: With this title.
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: This is pretty embarrassing, folks...
Vice Mayor Alonso: To say the least, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: ... to have Orange Bowl Modernization Project Phase II, 1992...
Mr. Odio: I think you need to listen to the whole story of this. We could
not move faster on this because legally, I was bound to wait for the County to
act on the seven million dollars. We cannot legally go out on bids unless I
had a commitment on monies.
Mayor Suarez: Does the paint, if I may interrupt you, does the painting, de-
oxidizing, rustproofing and all of that have to be done simultaneous with the
joists?
Mr. Odio: No.
Mr. Lee: No, Commissioner. He has flexibility here.
Mr. Odio: That's why... we have the flexibility.
Mr. Lee: The painting will be as the job is ending.
Mayor Suarez: But we knew that we had to do the joist and we knew that that
money had to be made available because that commitment had been made....
Mr. Lee: Absolutely. Yes, sir.
Mayor Suarez: ... Couldn't we have proceeded on that on a nice even way?
Mr. Odio: No, we could not, Mr. Mayor, because I did not have a commitment on
monies. We did not have the money until the County acted on. That's why, as
you know, we worked so diligently, all of you, with the County to try to get
that money passed in December because of the time frame that we have to get
42 January 23, 1992
the Orange Bowl done. If we don't start on the joist part of it tomorrow, we
are not going to be ready for the season.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Suarez: Vice Mayor Alonso.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. I have more questions.
Mr. Lee: Sure.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I am very disturbed to see that we put a construction
estimate of six million when, in fact, you told me a few minutes ago that you
thought that the painting of the structure was going to cost a maximum of one
million.
Mr. Lee: Approx...
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's what you said. Let's say, when you say an
approximate amount, I understand you go a few thousands here and there. The
amount, when I deduct the painting as all the estimates have been presented to
us, I get the... an approximate amount that the job will cost about three
million two hundred, three million six hundred, something to that effect. Why
did we put up a bid of six million when, in fact, we felt that it was going to
cost less? Are we in the exercise of throwing away taxpayers' money, or what?
Mr. Lee: Commissioner.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Why did we go higher than what we thought it was going to
cost?
Mr. Lee: OK. If we analyze all the eleven items.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Indeed, I certainly have looked carefully.
Mr. Lee: OK. Generally, all the other items came in lower than our estimate.
What really threw this out was the painting estimate.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You mean, we continue to live in an unreal world? I've
been saying for two years, let's have prices that correspond to the real
world. It seems that then the contractors live in the real world, we don't,
and we come out with estimates higher? Well, then this way, they are fools
not to come with prices that are incredible. They should say, hey, the City
of Miami, is paying... to pay... whatever. That's not right. Are you telling
me that we came higher than that? Why don't we make the proposal and say,
maybe, these people are willing to accept the proposals, and I see amounts
here of six million seven hundred, maybe, some of them would be willing to go
to six million, and we will be saving the taxpayers seven hundred thousand
dollars.
Mr. Lee: If you even analyze the six bidders...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, I did.
43 January 23, 1992
Mr. Lee: ... by the items, you will see the tremendous variation amongst
them. Except...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then, do you want my impression? Something is wrong with
our bid.
Mayor Suarez: Yes. Except that apparently, I am told by Commissioner
Plummer, that all six of the bids included a painting subcontractor which was
identically the same.
Vice Mayor Alonso: The same one...
Mayor Suarez: ... and not always with the same subcontracting amounts? In
fact, with great variations?
Mr. Lee: It's the same painting contractor. That is correct, Mr. Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Because you add your expenses, a ten percent here and
there.
Commissioner Plummer: Can I ask a question? Who is the painting contractor?
Mayor Suarez: Who is the... yes, that was going to be my question.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Same one.
Mayor Suarez: Who is the person who manages to work his or her way into six
different bids?
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, oh, be quiet, "Shame on You" is here.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, boy. It's the same one. But then the prices varies a
little bit, because each company will add, you know, their touch.
Mayor Suarez: But apparently, Commissioner Plummer was saying that they vary
a lot more than a little bit.
Mr. Lee: It's Midway Painting.
Commissioner Plummer: Midway Paint.
Mr. Lee: Painting.
Commissioner Plummer: And are they a local company?
Mr. Lee: No, sir.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, why should they be?
Commissioner Plummer: No, no. The question I am trying to get to, am I
correct that all six bidders used Midway as their subcontractor to do the
painting?
Mr. Lee: Yes, sir.
44 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Am I correct Mr. Manager, I want you to listen to
e this - that in the bidding procedure, there was as much as a million dollars
_f difference by the same contractor to do the same job?
4
Mr. Lee: Yes, sir.
I' Commissioner Plummer: My friend...
i Vice Mayor Alonso: So if we want to write a book...
i�
Commissioner Plummer: ... something is radically wrong.
Vice Mayor Alonso: This is it. Thank you.
Mr. Odio: I'll tell you what it is.
Commissioner Plummer: I'll tell you, wait a minute, I'll tell you what you I
think need to do, Mr. Manager. I think that that's damn near fringing on
► criminal activity. When you have somewhere, somebody is playing games.
3 Mr. Odio: Clarify what you mean by that because...
- Commissioner Plummer: What I mean is, somebody is manipulating...
Mr. Odio: Outside.
Commissioner Plummer: Of course, I am saying outside.
Mr. Odio: OK. We don't see the bids until they get here.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm not saying inside. We don't make the bids.
Commissioner Dawkins: Where ever it's found, outside, inside or on the top
side.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no, please. Let's make it fully understood
that this is not pointing a finger at the administration. But when you have
the same contractor doing the same job, and I assume the specs call for the
same kind of paint, the same identical everything, and that contractor is the
same contractor for all six of the bidders, and there is a million dollars
difference, somebody needs to investigate that matter. I've got to tell you
something. Somebody is playing games.
Mayor Suarez: I think this Commissioner ought to specifically ask for a full
report on that from you.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: Whether that, somehow, exceeds the bounds of reasonable
flexibility in subcontracting, or whether there is some effort to defraud...
Mr. Odio: Well, Mr. Mayor.
45
January 23, 1992
- f'
Mayor Suarez: ... the City of Miami and its citizens. And let me ask one
other question about that. Is this work so specialized, from your
understanding of it, that there would be basically only one company that all
the contractors would turn to? Or what happened here that only one company
bid?
Mr. Lee: Mayor, we don't know. That's what we're trying to find out. These
are...
Mayor Suarez: You don't know if this work is so specialized... You were able
to tell us today that, Mr. Lee, that they are three times higher than what you
think the work should cost, which means that you must have looked at that kind
of work and at that aspect of the industry....
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: ... and yet, you are not able to tell me if this is so
specialized?
Mr. Odio: No, my understanding...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let me... stop, for one minute, OK?
Commissioner Alonso has hit,... and I hate to say this in front of Al
Sunshine, but let me tell you something. This is exactly... you remember I
'?
pulled a bid, last Commission meeting, for uniforms and such for the Police
Department, when I saw that they were paying four hundred and fifty dollars
for a pair of riding boots. I am told by the man who was to be awarded the
contract that he argued with the Police Department saying, this is a sole
source. He tells me that he spent three hundred dollars in phone calls to
find out that the distributor was in Hialeah, that he could provide - and he
told this to the Police Department - American made, same quality, for a
hundred to a hundred and fifty dollars. OK? Let me go one step further,
motorcycle jackets, three hundred and fifty dollars. If you saw the specs,
`
the specs tell you, it had to be Harley Davidson, number so and so, with a
`
Harley Davidson label, and when he went to the local distributor who would not
even talk to him, he had to go to Daytona Beach and pay retail to comply with
the bids. Now, something is wrong, radically wrong, with our procedure.
Thirty-five hundred pairs of pants with a "Talon Niko zipper with a memory."
Mr. Odio: Commissioner...
Commissioner Plummer: Something is radically wrong. I mean, I don't know why
our policemen have to have a...
Mr. Odio: I need to...
Mayor Suarez: You know, I have no idea what the heck that means,...
Commissioner Plummer: ... why they have to have a zipper with a memory!
Mayor Suarez: ... but I am sure I don't want to get into it today.
Commissioner Plummer: Now, do they forget to zip up their pants, or what the
hell is the story?
46 January 23, 1992
PI
Vice Mayor Alonso: I'm afraid, don't go into that.
Mayor Suarez: In your bizarre mind, all of this has some significance, I
know,...
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: ... and some implications for us as policy makers for the City,
but I am not going to delve into that because it can really, really get
strange.
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor, let me show you this for a minute.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Mr. Odio: This is the bid book for this job. The paint part alone has twelve
different coating systems that have to be applied according to the engineers,
to the Orange Bowl. (unintelligible and incomplete quote)... it's got twelve
different kinds of paint jobs that have to be done to the surface.
Mayor Suarez: Right. Now...
Mr. Odio: There were three or four companies that could have done this job.
Mayor Suarez: There were three or four companies?
Mr. Odio: Yes, sir.
Mayor Suarez: Maybe, some of them locally?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Local companies?
Mr. Odio: Were they local, Juan?
Unidentified Speaker: No.
Mr. Odio: No, no, local companies could do it.
Commissioner Plummer: You know, I've got to say this on the record.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's the story of our life. No one has a business in
Miami. The minute we say they have to be local companies, and somehow, we are
going to work out a system that we will help local companies. Somehow, the
money should stay here, in Miami. And somehow, we should look into that.
Commissioner Plummer: I'll tell you it borders on collusion.
Mr. Odio: Did you read this?
Vice Mayor Alonso: For some reason, every time it's a company somewhere. I
am disturbed, I've been saying that for seven months, every Commission
meeting. And somehow, the economical situation in Miami demands that we
really look into this. Mr. Mayor, as you see, this item has everything in the
47 January 23, 1992
A
book that we should not be doing. From the content of the package, to the
mistake of Claughton Island when, in fact, it's Orange Bowl from the mistakes
of a price that is very confusing, from one company who has given six
different prices, from the description of the items, from the price of the
materials, the City Manager insists in so many coats of paint. Fine, that's
fine, but how come two hundred thousand dollars in materials, and then the job
costs three million? Let's give jobs to the homeless and to people who are
unemployed in Miami, and you will see how we are going to save money.
Mayor Suarez: Well this particular job may not lend itself to that, but
certainly...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, who knows?
Mayor Suarez: Who knows. It is troubling to see something that, you know,
with this kind of discrepancy and the fact that that is only one company
bidding all across the board, of course, maybe, if it's so specialized...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, can I try to bring this up?
Mayor Suarez: ... but Commissioner Dawkins has been waiting, Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm sorry, go ahead Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: Commissioner Alonso, you are correct. I've been
sitting here eleven years, and eleven years I have been saying that local
people should get local dollars. This Commission has failed to hear that, on
the recommendation of the administration. In fact, I am the one who has sat
here constantly and complained because the out-of-town contractors rented
local black people, paid them a fee for them to assume that they were a part
of it, and gave them a rental fee and they take the money and leave. So, you
are correct. The money needs to stay here, and anytime a firm comes in here
with a rented minority, they should go back home. Because even though they
come here and take the rented minority here, if he is from Texas, he never
takes the rented minority back to Texas and give him a job. So, I resent the
rented minority more than I resent the company, because he is being used in
letting them use him. So, you are correct, and until some of the people I see
sitting out there now, stand up on their own and stop letting people rent
them, you aren't going to have the work in the City of Miami.
Mayor Suarez: All right. What is the suggested action?
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Suarez: Yes, Commissioner, let's go ahead and...
Commissioner Plummer: ... we have got... let me ask this question, in
deference to my colleague. We've got to move forward. If we don't, we are, I
want to tell this Commission, in serious jeopardy of losing the Orange Bowl
Committee. We made promises. We, the Commission, not me. Now, Mr. Manager,
you are pulling the paint portion.
Mr. Odio: Yes, we are.
48 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Is there any question by any Commissioner about the
joist work that has to be done? I mean... I know that there is some
discrepancy among the bidders, but in your mind, sir, is there any discrepancy
about that which has to get started immediately? We just can't wait any
longer.
Commissioner Be Yurre: Let me ask this.
Mayor Suarez: And then Commissioner Dawkins. Commissioner Be Yurre.
Commissioner Be Yurre: If we're going to go back into this painting process
and going out to bids again, where is that going to put us? Because this is
like deja vu. It could happen like last year...
Commissioner Plummer: Victor, let me answer you. I don't think that the
Orange Bowl Committee or the University of Miami is concerned whether or not
the thing is orange or pink or what color. They're worried...
Commissioner Be Yurre: I'm talking about the special work that needs to be
done!
Commissioner Plummer: Okay, that is not a pressing matter. The pressing
matter is the safety aspect and the bar joists speak to the safety aspect. A
new coat of paint does not make the stadium safe or unsafe. But I'm saying to
my colleagues that, in fact, to meet the commitments that we made, we have to
move forward on the bar joists, that's the important facet.
Commissioner Be Yurre: Well, I've got no problem moving forward on the
recommendation of the Administration right now so we can get this job done and
we're going back out again for the...
Mr. Odio: We recommend that you accept the joist part of it, we need to get
the work done on that. Then we will go out again on bids on the paint part of
it.
Commissioner Be Yurre: Which will not have come into place until after the
joist work would be done anyway.
Mr. Odio: Which will not come into place until the joist work is finished
anyway.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, Commissioner.
Commissioner Dawkins: Through you to the City Attorney.
Mayor Suarez: Mr. City Attorney... Madam City Attorney.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. City Attorney, Madam City Attorney, tell the five
of us how to legally do this, because hearing somebody say throw out the
paint, in my opinion, leaves us open to suit by the other four people or four
firms, or five firms; and to hear them say that you're going to just throw out
the paint and use the second bidder, it's a violation of the bidding process.
49 January 23, 1992
*1
fl
But if there is a way to legally do this, would you suggest it to us so that
we can take it into consideration, please, ma'am?
Commissioner De Yurre: Before she answers, Miller, let me get some
clarification on this. Isn't it just one bidder as far as the paint is
concerned, or is there more than one?
Mr. Odio: Well, all the contractors that bid it used the same sub in their
bid.
Mayor Suarez: Subcontractor.
Commissioner De Yurre: Everybody used the same sub.
Mr. Odio: The same sub.
Commissioner De Yurre: So that could not change the order if it's the same
price.
Mr. Odio: That's correct.
Commissioner De Yurre: So that doesn't change the order.
Mayor Suarez: But they weren't the same... the subcontractor had different
prices.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no it did. It changed radically.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, different prices.
Mayor Suarez: Probably because the scope of the work was a little different.
Commissioner De Yurre: You're telling me that the same subcontractor for the
same job gave different prices with different companies?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Six different prices.
Mr. Odio: What could have happened is this. And in order to... I think this
needs to be said.
Commissioner De Yurre: No, I need to have that clarified.
Mayor Suarez: We will get it all in the record. As of now, it's a fairly
simple question the Commissioner is asking. For a further clarification, they
were different prices?
Mr. Odio: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: For roughly the same description of subcontracting work?
Commissioner De Yurre: It's got to be the same work.
Mr. Odio: I mean, for the joist part, there were different prices. For the
Joist part of the contract, there were different prices.
50 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: You are talking about painting.
Commissioner De Yurre: No, but isn't it the same work that's going out for
bids? It's one job?
Mr. Odio: The same work, yes.
Commissioner De Yurre: And the same bidder bid with different companies, the
same subcontractor bid it with different companies for the same job.
Mr. Odio: In the paint part, yes.
Commissioner De Yurre: And, you're telling me that he bid with different
amounts, for the same job...?
Mr. Odio: For the same amount of paint... They charged the same amount of
paint,... no,..* wait, wait...
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, different. Six different amounts.
Mayor Suarez: The amounts of the subcontractor's bid for essentially the same
description of the item were all different. Yes or no?
Mr. Odio: Okay, they were different.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: Thank you. All right, Commissioner, you may inquire.
Mr. Odio: Sorry.
Commissioner De Yurre: Okay, obviously...
Mayor Suarez: That's not the first time in the world that happens, but it
bears investigation and we're going to investigate it. Yes, Commissioner.
Commissioner De Yurre: Are you telling me then... you know, I'm trying to
understand this and rationalize it. Why would the same subcontractor offer
for the same job different prices?
Commissioner Dawkins: We don't know that.
(INAUDIBLE COMMENT NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD).
Mayor Suarez: Well, wait. Yeah, but we're going to get to that point after
the Commission tries to grapple with what it might do in all of this and then
we're going to hear from the affected parties.
Mr. Odio: Let me say this to clarify.
contractor and the sub.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Of course.
We don't know the dealings between the
51
January 23, 1992
0
Mr. Odio: The contractor might have gotten the same price for the paint job
and then added overhead cost to it, as they choose.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you, that's what I said at the beginning.
Mr. Odio: It depends on their... it depends on what they want on the table or
not when they come in with a bid.
Mayor Suarez: All right, but we've... at least as it reaches us, the
subcontractors on the paint or the paint subcontracting part of the bid does
have different figures, and apparently, fairly different, fairly substantial
differences.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, excuse me. I'm not a contractor, but let me
tell you, when I'm looking over these bids, the gist on item 1, Wally,
replacement of concrete joists, that there between the bids, is a difference
of a million three.
Mr. Odio: That's correct. But that depends on...
Commissioner Plummer: Now, why? How much difference can there be?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Something is wrong with the system.
Mr. Odio: I'll tell you why. The contractor knows what kind of... what
amount of work they have at the time, what amount of work they need now, they
know their cost better than we do, they want to do it for cost, that's their
problem. I think it's to our advantage that they do it lower.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, you're talking about, in the difference of
contractors, between a million three and two six.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's right.
Commissioner Plummer: For the same line item.
Mr. Odio: Somebody decided that they wanted the job bad enough to bid low. I
tell you that's the way it's done in the real world. You determine if you...
you go after a job and you go in and drop the price.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then you go higher in the painting.
Mr. Odio: No.
Mayor Suarez: All right, Commissioners, we have to grapple with this and get
some input from the affected parties who are bidders, etcetera.
Commissioner Dawkins: Can I...
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: Can I get an answer from the City Attorney as to what's
the legal way to do this, please? if there is a legal way.
52 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, we should put that on the table and then try to proceed
with the legal advice given and dispose of the item.
Ms. Carmen Leon: I'm sorry. Yes, the painting portion of the contract could
be taken out. The City has the option of reducing the bid, reducing and
separating a piece of work out of it as it has chosen to do this time. So, it
is perfectly legal to reduce the work...
Mayor Suarez: It has not chosen yet to do anything....
Ms. Leon: No, or as it wants to.
Mayor Suarez: ... as the Manager has recommended that this Commission do.
Ms. Leon: Yes. Yes, I stand corrected. Yes.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Thank you.
Ms. Leon: So...
Mayor Suarez: All right. I...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Commissioner Dawkins: You haven't said nothing... Maybe you explained
something to them. You haven't said nothing to me.
Mayor Suarez: I thought she had completed. What else do you need,
Commissioner? I thought she had completed her opinion. What else... go
ahead.
Mr. Jones: Commissioner, I think what she's trying to tell you, that it's
perfectly legal given the aspect that's been described in terms of separating
the painting for the City to go forth if that is the City's, the Commission's
desire.
Commissioner Dawkins: Okay, that's what I needed. Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: You know, just for the record. If you look at item
number 2, there is a million dollars difference between the high bidder and
the low bidder on item 2.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's right.
Commissioner Plummer: There is a million six difference between the high
bidder and the low bidder on item 1. There is a two million dollar difference
on the painting. Something here doesn't smell good.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you. I'm so glad you are saying it, too. Because
that's what I've been trying to explain. An answer to your question, you say
do we have problems with the rest of the bid. My answer, just one person, is
yes, I have all kinds of problems, because the same way of what I have
presented in reference to the painting, I see it in all other items. I'm not
an expert. I don't know what kind of steel they use. But, I can see the
53 January 23, 1992
differences in numbers. The system is wrong. The bid, somehow, has been
presented in a way that we get all kinds of things. And we have one larger
responsibility that we know that we have a commitment to the Orange Bowl and
I'm the first one... I work diligently with the Manager to get the money from
the County. I was working late that night with him in order to be certain
that we got the seven million and so on. But, also, we have a larger
obligation to the taxpayers of Miami. How are we going to explain to them
this? With all the confusing information that we have been given, with all of
the difference in numbers, I don't know. For one vote, I could not, in all
honesty, even though I realize we have an obligation to the Orange Bowl, say
yes to something that I don't know exactly if we are doing the right thing.
Maybe the Manager and the City Attorney can take away the responsibility from
this Commission and come on the record crystal clear that they put their job
on the line guaranteeing that these prices are the best that we can get.
Mayor Suarez: All right, Commissioner De Yurre.
Commissioner De Yurre: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the bid throwing out
the paint aspect of it and award it to the best bidder under that
circumstance.
Mayor Suarez: The best bidder would be lowest cost bidder in this case. So
moved.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I've only got to ask one other question. I'll
second it for discussion.
Mayor Suarez: Second for discussion. Thank you because otherwise we're
not...
jj Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, in looking over these and the discrepancy,
which is not the proper word, the difference between the bids, is it possible
that we could legally choose more than one contractor to do different aspects
of the work? And what I'm getting to, if you look, and what I'm... Danville-
Findorff is the one you're going to recommend, is that correct?
' Vice Mayor Alonso: How come we can do it in reference to the painting and not
the rest?
Commissioner Plummer: Okay, the point I'm trying to make is...
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, as we break it down, you have to explain when you answer
a question like that, how come we can take out...
Commissioner Plummer: Can we break it down into more than just one contract?
Mayor Suarez: J. L., let me just... Yeah, how can we just take out the paint
but we can't otherwise break down other items? You have to explain that us,
folks, because otherwise.
Ms. Leon: Technically... legally you could, but I don't know whether
technically you can do it.
Mayor Suarez: Okay, because the...
54 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: What the hell does that... what the hell does that
mean?
Vice Mayor Alonso: What about this?
Ms. Leon: I'm not an engineer...
Mayor Suarez: Because the Vice Mayor is reading the wording, wait a minute,
!�
please, that says clearly that legally we can reject all or any part,
!
etcetera. Now you're saying technically we cannot.
!!'
Mr. Odio: You cannot, J. L. You cannot technically do it.
-'
Vice Mayor Alonso: The City Commission reserves the right to reject any or
�i
all proposals or any part of any proposal.
Mayor Suarez: We legally, apparently, can do it. Now, the Manager is saying,
technically, we may not.
;f4
Mr. Odio: Technically, you cannot do it.
-�lMayor
Suarez: We go now to the Manager, we don't need...
Vice Mayor Alonso: So what it says is not what they meant.
Mayor Suarez: ... all kinds of assurances from the City Attorney on the
technical aspect, thank you. Now we go to the Manager, who is caucusing on
all of this and trying to...
Vice Mayor Alonso: See, it's very clear. You're an attorney.
Mayor Suarez: No, no, I... no doubt it is. Yes. In the meantime, I gather
that if we were inclined to follow this motion, which it now has been made,
this would affect the order of the bids. Your company apparently would
otherwise have been number one. Now, you're number two and we'll hear from
you, but there may be other companies. Who else is here on this item? Okay,
what company is... yours is Danville. And theirs is... State Paving Corp.
They are now the one that would... okay, why don't you go ahead and make your
presentation and we'll hear from them.
Commissioner Plummer: Can I make a motion to sell the Orange Bowl? It would
simplify it.
Mayor Suarez: Name and address and the whole bit, please.
Mr. Dana C. Sheldon: Honorable Mayor and Commissioners, my name's Dana
Sheldon. I'm President of Danville-Findorff. We were the lowest bidder on
the base bid, including all the paint items.
Commissioner Dawkins: Who are you, sir? I was busy talking.
Mr. Sheldon: I'm Dana Sheldon. I'm President of Danville-Findorff.
55 January 23, 1992
40111`
Commissioner Dawkins: Oh, okay, thank you.
Mr. Sheldon: We were the low bidder on the base bid. I'm not going to argue
any legal stuff because I'm not a lawyer. I just wanted to say that... I want
to clear up the question, at least from our point of view, on the paint.
Commissioner Plummer: Wait a minute, sir. You say on the base bid. What are
you referring to?
Mr. Sheldon: A base bid is the total bid for the paint and all the
renovations.
Vice Mayor Alonso: The total bid.
Mr. Sheldon: We were low on that bid. On the paint portion, so we don't get
a bad public view that anybody's giving different numbers, the paint
specifications was very extensive. The paint specifications listed one
supplier that any paint... whoever could paint it, could go to. That was
Sherwin Williams. One, okay.
t
Vice Mayor Alonso: Why?
Mr. Sheldon: They also wrote... I have no idea why...
Mayor Suarez: If you know, the Commission...
Mr. Sheldon: ... we couldn't go to any alternate so we had no other place to
go.
Mr. Odio: I'll say this on the... the company that was hired Heery and Heery
! out of Atlanta, the experts on stadiums, recommended that that's the only
paint that they have tested that will control rust.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but Mr. Manager that doesn't...
Mr. Sheldon: So we didn't know why but we knew there was only one we could go
?'• to.
Commissioner Plummer: ... it doesn't make it right. I mean, you know...
Mr. Sheldon: Right off the bat, that restricts the competition.
Commissioner Plummer: You see, when you build in...
Mr. Odio: I am not an expert.
Mayor Suarez: This doesn't affect you. We want to know why we put that in
the specs. This doesn't affect you, so we're going to take a little aside
here because they obviously are concerned.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, yes.
Commissioner De Yurre: I'd like to bring Heery and Heery here to explain wry.
'_ 56 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. I got to believe there's more than one good
paint on the market. Now, when we build ourselves into, basically a sole
source, it's got to cost more money or they know they're locked in. It
doesn't make sense.
Mr. Odio: The paint is two hundred thousand dollars.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Two hundred thousand dollars.
Mr. Sheldon: We weren't able to get that information from anybody. We don't
know how you guys got it. We couldn't get that information. How much the
material was worth from anybody and we're bidding the job.
Vice Mayor Alonso: May I ask you a question? Were you surprised to see that
we were demanding only one source of buying the materials?
Mr. Sheldon: For the materials? Yes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Is that un... something that is a common practice?
Mr. Sheldon: I'm not a paint expert, but I'm an Indust... I've done a lot of
industrial work, I've done coatings and paintings on structural steel around
highly corrosive and caustic materials and that wasn't one of the companies
that we used.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You have always used that company for that?
Mr. Sheldon: No, no, no. I'm saying there's other companies that make
coatings. I don't know what was the criteria on this particular thing, but
I've done work in chemical plants where there's highly caustic materials that
you can't touch with your skin, metal or anything, that protect metal for
other circumstances.
Commissioner Plummer: But you see it's the same company that have to play by
the same rules with the same specs. That's where it doesn't make sense. Even
if it says Sherwin Williams, paint number X number, color X number. For all
six of you bidders, it was the same rules of the game.
Mr. Sheldon: Right and what I wanted to explain, someone brought up the point
that they gave different prices. We're not aware of that. What I want to
explain further, the specifications also restricted who could apply the paint,
what companies. Not what companies, but what type of company. And it had to
do with how much you did a year, your billings, which I have no idea why.
Your expertise...
Vice Mayor Alonso: So, that's unusual? Is that an unusual request?
Mr. Sheldon: We felt it was a restrictive because no one in Miami, Dade
County, or South Florida... we got three bids and I'm going to tell you what
they were and I'm sure the other bidders will back me up because we got them
over the faxes. We don't know these people. We got two bids out of Chicago;
one was for 4.6 million, one was for 4.1 million. I'm sorry. The one in the
State of Florida, which is out of the Tampa area was 4.6 million. There was
another one out of the Chicago or Illinois area for 4.1 million and one for
57 January 23, 1992
3.5 million in those neighborhoods.
painting the structural steel.
Now that included other work besides
Mayor Suarez: Now we know why everything costs so much to do in Chicago.
Imagine how much they would pay for this projects
Mr. Sheldon: We felt there was other alternatives and painters that are
qualified in this area to do this work. We're not talking about brain
surgery, we're talking about putting on paint. Although this is special
trade. It takes a certain amount of expertise. We know there's people that
do this type of work. We work with them everyday on every job. We're not
allowed to offer any alternatives or any value engineering ideas from the
contractor's point of view, which, this is our job. This is our work.
Mayor Suarez: Okay, don't get carried away with this issue which is part of
another investigation that we're going to do. You want to tell us that we
should somehow not go to what was otherwise a second bidder and would now
become the first bidder with this item taken out.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah, but I find that it's very relevant to what he has
said. He has mentioned unusual circumstances...
Mr. Sheldon: I just wanted to...
Mayor Suarez: Yes, absolutely.
Mr. Sheldon: ... I wanted to clear up that we weren't doing anything hanky
panky on paint.
Mayor Suarez: I just feel bad that he may think that we're all agreeing with
him and at the end, end up doing what he doesn't want us to do and he doesn't
have his argument on the table as to why we shouldn't do that.
Mr. Sheldon: Our other point is that we're a local firm, we have local black,
Hispanic and women companies working on this project. All our subcontractors
are in Miami or Dade County.
Mayor Suarez: Let me clarify. All your subcontractors are Miami or Dade
County?
Mr. Sheldon: With the exception of the paint. We had not control over.
Mayor Suarez: That's interesting. Wally, Mr. Lee. Does that... Mr. Manager,
too. Does the fact that these folks would now... see this is interesting.
Let's say we were to vote favorably on this motion. We eliminate now the
paint portion of the bid. Now do they not get some kind of a local preference
by having all their contractors and subcontractors and everything be local as
opposed to some other company?
Vice Mayor Alonso: They are not local.
Mr. Lee: They're from Dade County. Not the City of Miami.
Mayor Suarez: I see. Our local preference ordinance is City of Miami?
58 January 23, 1992
Mr. Lee: Yes, sir.
Mayor Suarez: And Danville is not quite established as a City of Miami
company.
Mr. Lee: That's correct.
Commissioner Plummer: They should be, they sued us.
(INAUDIBLE COMMENT NOT ENTERED INTO PUBLIC RECORD)
Mayor Suarez: Okay, please, please, please.
Unidentified Speaker: You won.
i Commissioner Plummer: We won, but you still sued us. Even though we won, we
proved you wrong.
j Mayor Suarez: Like to win one every once in a while. Okay, why don't you
;1 complete your presentation why we should not now go to the second, what would
otherwise, have been the second highest bidder.
Mr. Sheldon: Okay, on the variations of the prices, we can only explain our
version. There are other costs involved with item 5 that everybody looks at
differently. It has to do with general conditions, other shared expenses. We
happen to put the actual net cost of painting the structural steel in that
j' item. We shared our general conditions on other items that we were performing
1 concurrent throughout the project. There's nothing in the specifications, I
j don't know the legal aspects, that these are alternates. These are bid item
breakdowns, we felt for accounting purposes, not that you were going to pick
and choose and we don't where in there it says that it's allowable to pick and
choose to do something or not do something as far as that...
Mayor Suarez: Well, the Vice Mayor read from word...
► Mr. Sheldon:... but I'm not going to argue that point. That's our opinion.
Mayor Suarez: ... Wait, wait, wait. You wanted to that the Vice Mayor read
�j from wording in the RFP (request for proposal), it may have been obscure
wording, but apparently it's in there that we can select some portion and
fl accept it and reject all other portions.
Mr. Sheldon: Had this been clear, that these would have been picked and
chosen from, we would have, the numbers would have been changed to reflect
exact costs. Because we have shared general conditions, superintendents
cranes, scaffolding which run concurrent...
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, the overhead gets shifted around...
Vice Mayor Alonso: The overhead is easier to be placed in the painting job
' than in other instances. And it's done...
i
Mr. Sheldon: Well, ours isn't...
s
59 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: They know it as well as I do.
Mr. Sheldon: In contrary, our overhead is not in the paint, it's everywhere
else. Ours is the cost of the paint. Now, just one other point I want to
bring up...
Mayor Suarez: In retrospect, we probably should have bid it as separate items
and disaggregate the whole.
Mr. Sheldon:... an alternate bid. Now, I wanted to clear up one thing that
hasn't been brought up here that was said differently. You can't do the rest
of the work without doing some of that item 5. And there's going to have to
be a change order written, or it may not be a change order, it may be taken
out of the $300,000 allowance which doesn't have to come up in front of the
Commission. It's going to have to be done, in order to put those seats on,
change the steel and cover it up, you've got to paint the top of the existing
steel with items, work in item 5. Someone's going to have to pay for that.
If 1t doesn't come up today, it's going to have to be a change order...
Mayor Suarez: I was thinking that that was probably the case, so...
Mr. Sheldon:... or an allowance account. An allowance account doesn't come up
here. It just gets spent. We do that all the... it happens all the time. So
we want to make that clear.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, what's the provisions for special items of
$300,000?
Mayor Suarez: That's the one part.
Mr. Sheldon: That's everything that wasn't covered in the specifications that
were visually looked at that they said they want done.
Commissioner Plummer: A slush fund?
Mr. Sheldon: Not a slush fund. It says whatever we didn't tell you you're
going to do, we still want it 100%. That's basically what that is. And
it's
i;
things like maybe ceilings or work that's concealed, that's not...
Mayor Suarez: Its' not detail, but you do have a mind...
Mr. Sheldon: But we're responsible to do it and you want it done.
Mayor Suarez: Right. All right. Anything from the counselor...
Vice Mayor Alonso: One question. One other question.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, Vice Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Madam Attorney, can we say legally to these people
who
have responded to this bid, we want to save the taxpayers of Miami
over
$700,000. Can we say we are going to throw the bid out unless we come
out
with a bid of six million top price? Can we do that legally? And if
they
accept it?
60 January 23, 1992
Ms. Leon: Not on a bid.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Voluntary basis.
Ms. Leon: Not on a bid, on a sealed bid like this. We would have to put them
out for re -bid again.
Commissioner Plummer: You're saying to us that if a company volunteers to do
At for less than what they bid, we can't accept it?
Ms. Leon: If they are the lowest bidders, yes. If not, we have to throw them
out. You have the option of throwing them out and...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Let's save the taxpayers of Miami $700,000 right now. Can
we do that? And they say, yes, we will do the job. Is it legal?
Ms. Leon: Not on a sealed bid like this situation, unless the person or the
company...
Mayor Suarez: No, no, no, she's not understanding.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, no, no. I don't agree with that.
Mayor Suarez: I think the situation depositing is a little different from
what you're understanding. Commissioner, do you want to try it?
Commissioner De Yurre: Yes, my... I think what we're talking about here is
this group is the lowest bidder and we award them the bid and they're going to
say, we're going to lower our bid even further. That does not enter at all
into the factor of the bidding process because they were the lowest bidder to
begin with. Now, they can proffer that on top of that, they're going to knock
off another $700,000 or whatever to bring it to the six million dollar limit
that we have set, then there's no legal ramification that would impact on this
situation.
Mayor Suarez: In other words, we can negotiate with the lowest bidder an even
lower figure at our discretion?
Ms. Leon: With the lowest bidder, yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: May I ask a question, Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Suarez: Yes, Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: Will you explain to me why you rejected the bid for
Hadley Park and sent it back?
Commissioner Plummer: The problem is that on the total bid, they were not the
lowest bidder.
Commissioner Dawkins: Because that was a park over there with me, but you
can't reject this and send it back? Explain to me why.
61 January 23, 1992
U
LA
III
Mr. Odio: Well, I didn't reject a bid on Hadley Park.
Commissioner Dawkins: Sir, sir. No, we did.
Mr. Odio: Oh, oh.
Commissioner Dawkins: Yeah, we did. This Commission did. It was all right
to reject that and send it back. But now, on the Orange Bowl, we're going to
lose the Orange Game, we're going to lose the Orange Bowl parade, we're going
to lose everything, so now, we can't send this back. But the pool was just as
important to me 1n that neighborhood as the Orange Bowl game is to us, but you
don't want to send this back.
Commissioner De Yurre: Can I get an answer to my question?
Commissioner Dawkins: No, not till I get one to mine.
Commissioner De Yurre: Well, I made mine first.
Mayor Suarez: His question was posed first.
Mr. Odio: I can say this. That we made a commitment, that is you and I, to
the Orange Bowl Committee, that's the City, that we will do this. If we don't
do it, if we don't start work there very, very soon...
Vice Mayor Alonso: What about the commitment to the taxpayers?
Commissioner Dawkins: I agree with that 100%.
Mr. Odio: ... we will not be able to be ready.
Commissioner Dawkins: I agree with that 100%. All I'm saying is...
Mr. Odio: I know what you're trying to do.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... do it legally, I got no problem with it. But you
need to be consistent. Okay? If you're going to send mine back, then send
this one back. If you're not going to send all of them back, you should say
to yourselves up here, hey, you know, we've got to let this go through with
Miller Dawkins because one's going to come up here that we've got to let go
through for us.
Mr. Odio: Well, Miller, I'm being very consistent.
Commissioner Dawkins: No, no, no. I mean my fellow Commissioners.
Mr. Odio: Oh, okay.
Commissioner Dawkins: No, I'm not talking to you.
Mr. Odio: Because I didn't send the pool back.
Commissioner Dawkins: I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to my fellow
Commissioners up here.
62 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner De Yurre.
Commissioner Be Yurre: Mr. Mayor.
to my question? Can we do that?
N-A
Can I get Mr. Jones, can I get an answer
Mr. Jones: In answer to your question, you have the right to reject all the
bids or any parts...
Commissioner Be Yurre: The question is, in case you forgot it, if we award
the bid to the lowest bidder and they proffer, they volunteer to knock off an
additional X hundreds of thousands of dollars to come within our budget to
bring it down to the six million dollar amount, is there any legal problem
with that?
Mr. Jones: That's solely the prerogative of that particular company.
Commissioner Be Yurre: So then, the next step is if, legally that can be
done, the next question is, the handwriting's on the wall, guys...
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, we table the item, withdraw your motion and why don't you
think it over...
Commissioner Plummer: Wait, you got one more problem. Under their original
total bid, the low bidder is not the low bidder at this time with one portion
removed out of it.
Mayor Suarez: I think he's talking about a...
Commissioner De Yurre: Well, go ahead, do the whole thing.
Mayor Suarez: You're awarding the whole thing?
Commissioner De Yurre: We're awarding the whole package...
Commissioner Plummer: With the painting?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, and...
Commissioner Plummer: There is no way in hell I will vote for this Midway
Painting Company to be involved.
Mayor Suarez: Well, before you say that, before you say that, wait till you
hear what the amount may be for the whole thing.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: No, sir. I will not sit here and vote for Midway
i Painting.
i
Mayor Suarez: All right, well that's your prerogative.
a
3 Vice Mayor Alonso: And also...
63 January 23, 1992
Mr. Neil Flaxman: Can I make...
Commissioner Dawkins: And I vote with J. L., so that's two. Can we get a
third vote?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Yes, I...
Commissioner Dawkins: That's a third vote?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right, let's go.
Mayor Suarez: We don't have anything on the...
Mr. Flaxman: May I make a suggestion?
Commissioner Plummer: There's still a million dollar discrepancy.
Mayor Suarez: We don't have a motion pending.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Please. Everyone, we have a motion and a second for
discussion.
Commissioner Plummer: I withdraw the second.
Mayor Suarez: All right, so we have no motion. So don't everybody get
excited. We're not about to do anything.
Commissioner Plummer: There is no way I will vote for Midway Painting.
Mr. Flaxman: I'll make a suggestion.
Mayor Suarez: I was going to...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: No, sir, we don't want your suggestions.
a Commissioner Dawkins: I agree with you.
Mayor Suarez: Thank you.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor. I need clarification. I asked exactly the
same question that Commissioner De Yurre asked. And I was given a different
answer from the Legal Department. I was told it was illegal.
Commissioner De Yurre: In legal terms. You have to ask in legal terms.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then, again, ... Well, then you're telling me in order to
be a Commissioner, you have to be an attorney?
64 January 23, 1992
f,
Commissioner De Yurre: No, in order to get the answer you want, you have to
do it a certain way.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then things get more complicated. Now, my question is,
how come we got two answers?
Mayor Suarez: They misunderstood you.
Mr. Jones: Commissioner, the question that was posed is whether in awarding
it to the lowest responsible bidder could, in fact, that particular successful
bidder decide or, take upon its own volition, to lower its cost. Certainly if
they wanted to make that decision, it could unilaterally do that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then, the answer to my question was, yes. Even though I
got a no.
Mr. Jones: I don't think that was your question, Commissioner.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, it was definitely my question. Could they possibly
reduce their price and give back to the taxpayers of Miami $700,000. I was
told no. Now I know that the answer was yes.
Mr. Jones: No, not unless...
Vice Mayor Alonso: I got the message.
Mr. Jones: No, not unless they're the successful low responsible bidder.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's what we're discussing.
Mr. Jones: Okay, but the way that you postured your question was not in
fact... was whether they had been awarded the bid.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I was talking about company one and two.
Mayor Suarez: I think you understood the first question differently, but we
should have clarified that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: It was exactly the same question and the answer was yes.
Thank you.
Mayor Suarez: Counselor, it sounded to me like it was. That's why I wanted a
clarification.
Mr. Neil Flaxman: Can I... I have a suggestion.
Mayor Suarez: Counselor, give us a name and then what you want to say,
please.
Mr. Flaxman: Yes, I have just a suggestion. Neil Flaxman, Attorney for
Danville-Findorff, Corporate Lawyer. I have a suggestion. Since you want to
investigate the painting, we have no problem with that. We are willing to
keep our low bid price open, giving you the right to remove the painting or
holding us to the painting, either way you can't lose. If your investigation
65 January 23, 1992
reveals, as your City Manager has told you and as I think other people have
told you, that the painting is a very, very complicated matter and your bids
may come back at four million, we will give you that option. If you wish to
delete the painting after you've investigated, fine. If you wish to hold us
to the painting, fine. You have that option. We'd just as soon you go to
another type of painting and, of course, the price will go down.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, that's not your...
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, that's nice of you to give us an option that we think we
already have.
Commissioner Plummer: ... I appreciate you coming here bearing gifts, but
that's not your option. That's ours.
Mr. Flaxman: I understand.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: All right, now. Commissioner Dawkins, please.
Commissioner Dawkins: Let me ask the attorney...
Mayor Suarez: Everyone, just please.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... one question. I think I heard the gentlemen before
you say that the painting group - painting group now - possessed certain
qua',ifications or expertise that nobody else had to bring to this job. Was
that a correct, did I hear that correctly?
Mr. Flaxman: I guess, based upon the way specs are written.
Commissioner Dawkins: Okay, so there, now, if we bring you in, I'm sorry,
sir. If we bring the low bid in, without the paint, we bring the low bid in
without the expertise that's needed with the paint, how can you explain to me
that your firm is qualified to do the job?
Mr. Flaxman: Well, because I'll let Mr. Sheldon testify. He has done
complicated work of this nature. He will hire as a consultant whoever is
necessary to go ahead and to make sure, because there is a painting, there is
some painting needed. You cannot do all the structural work without doing
some painting because you would have to, you would lose the ability to spray,
you would have to paint by brush, you couldn't get behind... In other words,
it's and add -on job.
Commissioner Dawkins: That was not... But his statement was not only the
paint. He said that the painting process, the people that were coming in to
do the paint job were selected because they possessed certain expertise that
he did not have. So, therefore, he was bringing the out-of-town firm in. If
you delete the painting, you delete the firm; therefore, your firm, in my
opinion, according to you, is without a certain needed requirement.
Mr. Sheldon: We felt the restrictions put on by the specifications were
overkill. You put financial restrictions which only allowed large painters to
}
:� 66 January 23, 1992
do this work, that do huge volumes of work and where the industrial work is
done is mainly in the Midwest, Chicago area.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right, let's you and I get on the same page. What
other expertise and what other jobs is included in that package that includes
the paint? What other... name them for us.
Commissioner Plummer: Cesar you want this back?
Mr. Sheldon: We're still doing the same painting you're doing on the rest of
the building because we're putting the structural steel in. We're not saying
you're getting rid of it all.
Commissioner Dawkins: Structural paint, structural steel?
Mr. Sheldon: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: Structural steel.
Mr. Sheldon: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: What else?
Mr. Sheldon: Yes, sir. You know the benches are being replaced at the Orange
Bowl from concrete with steel. That steel we're putting in is being painted
with the same stuff you're painting the rest of the Orange Bowl. We're still
doing a portion of it with probably the same painter. Whether you delete
section 5 or not, that same painter is still going to be painting all the
structural steel that you want in for the seats.
Commissioner Dawkins: Okay, I tell you what. Let me do... I'm not going to
prolong this. Madam City Clerk, provide me with a copy of what was said here
by this gentlemen and I will get back in touch with you, and you and I... see
if I can understand it. Thank you.
Mr. Sheldon: We reduced... yeah, okay.
Mayor Suarez: Before you proceed, I want to try to follow some sort of
reasonable procedure. Madam Vice Mayor. I do want to at least give an
opportunity to the company that would otherwise be the first bidder if were
inclined to exclude the paint portion of the contract. First the Vice Mayor,
please.
Mr. Jones: If they take out the paint, Danville, I mean, State Paving would
be the lowest, right?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. I need some clarifications. Item 8 and 10, Wally
Lee perhaps or the City Manager or the company, whoever wants to respond, 8
and 10, could you explain to me what it will do...
j Mr. Sheldon: Where's the bid at?
i Mr. Odio: That's the penetration application of penetrating sealant and
application of all other sealants.
67 January 23, 1992
�_I aF
A
Vice Mayor Alonso: Sealant on top of the joints?
Commissioner Plummer: Yes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Where? Isn't that the kind of paint that you're
talking...
Mr. Odio: This is to seal the concrete, if I remember right.
Vice Mayor Alonso: The concrete. Only concrete?
Mr. Lee: Yes, ma'am.
Mr. Sheldon: It's a special coating to keep the water and the rain from going
down into the, I believe, the press box and press booth where there's
occupancy underneath the seats and concrete above. I believe it seals all the
elements out from entering into the occupied areas below, which I believe is
press booth and other items. Bathrooms.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Both refer to concrete?
Mr. Sheldon: Yes, ma'am. It's a coating that goes on top of the concrete
after it's poured.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Why are they separated in two items?
Mr. Sheldon: Well, the whole description is not on this thing here. I need
to look at our bid form to remember exactly. But there was two...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Maybe, Wally can...
Mr. Sheldon: Commissioner, it was two different areas, I believe. One...
(INAUDIBLE COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD.)
Mayor Suarez: Okay, we can't have testimony. If you want to approach the
mike and try to answer the Commissioner's question, give us your name and...
this is not really an ideal way. Could you leave a little room there for the
gentlemen behind you to get through to the mike and give us his name?
Commissioner Plummer: This procedure...
Mayor Suarez: Behind you, sir, behind you. There we go. Go ahead.
Commissioner Plummer: This procedure reminds me of Eastern Airlines.
Mayor Suarez: Really. Bring up the mike and give us your name, sir.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You mean we are going down the drain?
:? Mr. Walt Wadsworth: My name is Walt Wadsworth, Vice President of State Paving
Corp., Building Division. We don't have a committee here or attorneys. We
came to work with the Commission. I want to...
68 January 23, 1992
1
4
73
Mayor Suarez: On the question posed by the Commissioner. Later you can make
your whole presentation. Vice Mayor.
Mr. Wadsworth: The Commissioner asked about why the waterproofing was
separate. It's performed by a different set of subcontractors and workmen
than the painting. The painting is a specialized thing and the waterproofing
is a specialized thing.
Vice Mayor Alonso: This waterproofing is done by a different company. It's
not... you don't consider that a painting job?
Mr. Wadsworth: No. It's not a painting job.
Vice Mayor Alonso: It's a specific...
Mr. Wadsworth: It's similar in some aspects but it is a different job.
Commissioner Plummer: It's not done by Midway?
Mr. Wadsworth: Not done by Midway, no. There are local companies that...
Vice Mayor Alonso: It's done by your company or it's a company that you
contract?
Mr. Wadsworth: No, we contract with companies that perform that work who are
specialists in the work. There are local companies that bid on that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: And you're telling me that 8 and 10 are two different
jobs. No relation between the two?
Mr. Wadsworth: No, actually the same companies bid on those two aspects of
the work. They combine those.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Mr. Flaxman: Mayor, may I finish and then I'll sit down?
Mayor Suarez: No; we have nothing pending for you. We have nothing pending
for anybody right now. The Commission is trying to figure out what it's going
to do on this, if anything. The one motion that was filed was rescinded and
the second was rescinded, I believe. At least the second was rescinded, so
there's nothing before us.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me ask this question.
Mr. Flaxman: May I just...
Mayor Suarez: No, no, no. Wait, wait.
j Commissioner Plummer: Commissioner De Yurre asked a statement. The low
bidder, as I understand it right now, is State Paving. Is that correct? Are
they volunteering on the record to reduce their cost? Yes or no? And if yes,
how much?
„'
69 January 23, 1992
5
Mr. Odio: Okay, let... just a minute...
Mayor Suarez: No, no. That's not a correct statement, I don't think. I
think the low bidder as of now in the posture that we're in is actually
Danville. If we were to eliminate the painting portion, the low bidder would
be State Paving.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, let there be no question about the
painting is eliminated.
Mayor Suarez: That is not what we have before us.
Commissioner Plummer: All right, whoa, whoa. I make a motion at this time
that this item before us, that the painting aspect be eliminated. I make that
In the form of a motion.
Mayor Suarez: So moved.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, second. I have been trying to do that since...
Mayor Suarez: Seconded. Now...
Commissioner Plummer: All right, we'll go through the scenario if that's the
way you want to do it. It's fine with me.
Mayor Suarez: What had been proposed before, and apparently you didn't want
to see what the outcome of it was, is that we suggest to the low bidder with
the whole package that if they came in voluntarily at a figure that would
otherwise resolve the issue of the paint and the whole bit by having it come
in at an acceptable figure, that we might be able to legally accept it, move
on, get the job done and get the savings of this other motion that you're
making now. That's the only thing that was being suggested.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: That's an alternative route. If you pass this now, then we
have the legal issue of going ahead or rejecting the whole package and what
the protest may be from the low bidder. I think that we're on good legal
grounds...
Mr. Wadsworth: All right. Well, we...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I don't want the...
Mayor Suarez: ... with this motion to accept the rest of the package, but let
me tell you, for myself, I might just be inclined to say let's... if you're
going to reject part of it, let's start over again and get the benefit of all
of this discussion because I have a feeling the next set of bids are going to
come in very low, sealed and we'll be able to take the low bidder. And we can
legally do that, too. So, I'm just kind of giving you my impressions of what
might happen if this motion passes.
70 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Without being repetitive, unless, which I think is
impossible, Midway Paint can come in and justify a million three difference on
all of the same specs, Mr. Mayor, Midway Paint, in my estimation, isn't going
to get near the Orange Bowl, much less with a paint brush.
Mayor Suarez: That's an interesting argument. Maybe going even farther back
there's the issue of why a particular kind of paint was specified when we've
had some expert testimony...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, that's not in the question. They all bid
the same.
Mayor Suarez: No, no, no. I am adding, I am adding to your concern that
something is unusual and maybe we just didn't do it right in the first place
by specifying one kind of paint. Maybe if we had been a little more generic,
maybe if we had broken it down more, we would have a lot different result.
Mr. Flaxman: Mayor...
Mayor Suarez: In any event, we have a motion before us that would separate
and reject all of the bids as to the paint portion of the subcontract. I
think we have clarified, due to Commissioner Dawkins's inquiry and the rest of
us, that some work would have to be done on the joists by way of preparing
them for the ultimate paint job, etcetera, even with the rest of the package,
but I think the rest of the package includes that. We may want to clarify
that as to the low bidder then, etcetera, and see what this Commiss"lon wants
to do. I will, once again, say that I would be inclined at that point to
simply throw the whole package out if this motion passes. Yes, Commissioner
Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: Under discussion, I'll be voting against the motion. I
don't think that we should take it upon ourselves to dilly dally with the bid.
The bid came in. According to our personal feeling, the bid was jockeyed,
something was wrong with it. I feel that it should be, as much as I hate to
delay it, but it should be sent back out even if we have to give the Manager
the discretion to go with the lowest bid in order to get it done. But, I
cannot vote to pull a bid apart after it has been submitted and think that
other people's not going to sue us.
Mr. Flaxman: Mayor Suarez, we can...
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait. He's such an aggressive man. Commissioners,
anything further?
Commissioner De Yurre: Discussion. Discussion.
A�
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, I believe that Commissioner Dawkins has a good point
on that, and...
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner De Yurre yields to the Vice Mayor?
' Commissioner De Yurre: Yes, go ahead.
Mayor Suarez: Go ahead.
71 January 23, 1992
y
--i
t
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you. I agree what he has said. He has a good point
there and why can't we perhaps throw out the entire bid. Why can't we have a
special session, even next week? Just to look at this item and resolve it
once and for all. I think this is full of irregularities, it's going to haunt
us whatever we do in reference to this bid. So, I would suggest perhaps it
will be the best direction to start with a new bid and call a special session
next week...
Mr. Odio: Madam Vice Mayor...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... to make a final decision. Sometimes it has to be
done. Remember that the package is full of irregularities, from the package
that we were handed to the entire process. Yes, I think it's...
Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask any one of the contractors...
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait because we yielded to the Vice Mayor.
Commissioner De Yurre.
Commissioner De Yurre: We have to understand one thing. First of all, what
was our estimated cost for this thing? The six million dollar figure? Okay,
did you leave any leeway... was that a top figure or was that more or less, it
could come up...
Mr. Odio: That's a top figure. Top figure.
Commissioner De Yurre: So we never expected it to be more than six million
dollars?
Mr. Odio: No.
Mr. Flaxman: I will answer Mayor Suarez's question.
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait. You've not been recognized.
Commissioner Plummer: Can I have a second please?
Commissioner De Yurre: Have you been elected? When did you get elected?
I
Mr. Flaxman: I'm sorry.
�?
Mr. Odio: You want the
whole thing?
Commissioner Plummer:
No, only the old one.
Mr. Odio: Wally.
!'!zj
Commissioner Plummer:
Okay, you can have that back.
Commissioner De Yurre:
Now, we got to understand one
thing. If
only one
company bid it for the
painting aspect of this job, it
may very well
be that
j'
only one company bids
again when it goes out again,
and we're
not being
assured at any point in time that they're going to come
in with
a 2.9 low
F
72
January
23, 1992
_'i
0� fill')
figure or the 3.9 high figure, so we need to keep that in mind. So we're not
'I assuring, by throwing out the paint, that we're going to be saving all the
— t money that we're looking at at this point in time.
—s�Commissioner Plummer: Victor, let me tell you one of my other problems. And
_ I'm not saying that our people are, you know, the best projectors in the
world. One of the main problems I have, our people projected the paint, I
think, at a million dollars for round numbers.
Mr. Odio: A million two. Something like that.
Commissioner Plummer: And the difference between what we projected and the
high bid for the painting alone is 2.9 million dollars.
Commissioner De Yurre: J. L., if I may finish my thought here a little bit.
Legally, Mr. Jones, legally, could we accept this painting company's bid,
taking their lowest bid?
Mayor Suarez: The subcontractor's bid?
Commissioner De Yurre: The subcontractor's bid.
Mr. Jones: The painting company was not a responsible bidder. They didn't
submit a bid. Who submitted a bid were the companies that you have before you
which included in their package this subcontractor who happens to be the one
that's doing the bidding. So you just can't accept what's included within
their bid package and ignore everything else.
Commissioner De Yurre: Are you telling me that we can't go to this paint
company and say will you do it for the 2.9, which they bid...
Mr. Jones: No, because what you're dealing with, and I don't know exactly
what the specifications were that were written for the type of paint or
whatever, but from the input that I've heard from the companies here this
morning, it seems as though all indication is that this particular company is
not the only company that can provide the type of paint that's needed or
whatever it is. I would only say to you that I think that the safest course
of action, if you are going to award this bid minus the painting portion, is
that the painting portion be bid separately.
Commissioner Plummer: May I ask a...
Mayor Suarez: Okay, but we're not at that point. Counselor, I want to say
that what we have before us is a motion to simply segregate and, in effect,
reject the paint portion but we have yet to decide what we're going to do
after that point. Assuming that motion even passes.
Mr. Kay: You asked a...
Commissioner Plummer: May I ask of the Administration...
,.' Mayor Suarez: I know that you're considering the consequences of that
passing... Yes, Commissioner Plummer.
i
73 January 23, 1992
rA
Mr. Odio: Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: May I ask of the Administration, what is the three
hundred dollar contingency fund for?
Mayor Suarez: Three hundred thousand dollars.
Commissioner Plummer: I mean, I don't know why you have to build in a three
hundred thousand dollar contingency.
Mayor Suarez: I think it's not really contingent. I think it's a variety of
items that are too small to list individually but, do you know, Wally?
Mr. Odio: I know one thing. When we went into...
Mr. Kay: Mr. Mayor, Manager, it's for unforeseen items. For example, the
press box, when we start working in the press box, there's a lot of things
that are covered. Paneling or drywall. Once we start tearing that out, we
think we're going to be looking at a lot of surprises.
Mayor Suarez: And three hundred thousand dollars being five percent of the
total is within the bounds of what we usually leave as a flexible figure? Is
that what you're...
Mr. Kay: That's reasonable.
Mayor Suarez: That's what I thought.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, would you explain to me then why, last Saturday,
the bathrooms in the press box were not working?
Mr. Odio: Which level?
Commissioner Plummer: Five.
Mr. Kay:
answer...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I mean, we were being told that the problem had
been eliminated. Hold on. Why was the fifth floor bathrooms, ladies
li bathroom, the man was standing in the door with a plumber's friend saying to
my girlfriend you can't go in. She says but I'm a Plumber's friend also.
Mr. Odio: Let me tell you what happened, Commissioner.
'i Commissioner Plummer: The point I'm trying to make is we just spent a
tremendous amount of money in Phase I...
f
Mr. Odio: Right and what happened...
Commissioner Plummer: ... to correct the problems of backup in the Orange
' Bowl. Now we're talking about going into Phase II of building more bathrooms
and Phase I aren't even working.
I'd have to ask someone else on.. research. I'd give you an
74
January 23, 1992
Mr. Odio: Yeah, but what happened is we added so many new bathrooms that the
pumping system we had for the old ones doesn't work. So part of this is we're
going to have a new pumping system in place when the... What happens with the
Orange...
Commissioner Plummer: I've already told Max the main problem. I'm not going
to put it on the record.
Mr. Odio: What happens with the Orange Bowl is we had to do it in so many
pieces that, because of the season and the game and so forth, that...
Commissioner Plummer: All right, Mr. Manager, let me ask one other question
because this whole thing is crazy. We're beginning to look like Metro. I
only say that because they got that on me before. Mr. Manager, you have
estimated with penalty 180 days. Okay, assuming that we go back out and can
come back with bids within 30 days, and that's possible, that is March, April,
May, June, July, August. Will we still be... When is the first game scheduled
in the Orange Bowl?
Mr. Lee: I believe, Commissioner, September the 14th.
Commissioner Plummer: All right, now I'll ask another question. Is it
humanly possible to cut down on the 180 days? Is that possible? What I'm
trying to say is, if we go back out to re -bidding, okay because I'm going to
tell you something. I don't think anybody sitting up here wants to vote on
what we have before us.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Of course not.
Commissioner Plummer: If we go back out to re -bidding, can we still meet our
deadlines? That's the question that I have.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Do we need thirty days?
Commissioner Plummer: I'm sure that you would.
Vice Mayor Alonso: How long it took us before this time?
Mr. Lee: Another month.
1;
Vice Mayor Alonso: It did? No, no, my question is, on this one it took
,. thirty days?
Mr. Lee: Yeah.
Vice Mayor Alonso: It did? Okay, bring me the old information so that I can
check that it in fact took thirty days.
Commissioner Plummer: My question still...
Mr. Odio: It went out December 20th, as a matter of fact.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Twenty days?
75 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: All right, we're going...
Mr. Odio: It went out December 20th.
Vice Mayor Alonso: December 20th.
Mr. Odio: And this is December, January...
Commissioner Plummer: But we also have to remember now that all six firms
that are bidders are very familiar with what is now contained and they don't
have to do research, that's been done.
Mayor Suarez: We can expedite the whole process. That's for sure.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Expedite the whole process. Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: I believe without question that if Mr. Wally Lee's job
is on the line he can have back before us on the 18th of February new compiled
bids. The only question I'm asking, is it humanly possible to cut down the
hundred and eighty days? You might ask one of the contractors.
(INAUDIBLE COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE RECORD.)
Mr. Jones: Wait, say that on the record.
Mayor Suarez: Give a name and say it on the record.
Mr. Sheldon: Dana Sheldon, President Danville-Findorff. The time right now
is very tough. We're working two and three shifts to get it done this time
here. I don't know how you're going to do it in less time. It's definitely
going to cost you more money if we can figure out a way to do it in less time.
Mayor Suarez: I suspect that it probably won't cost us as much money, but I
hear you saying the opposite.
Mr. Sheldon: We may save it when we change some paint specs. You'll end up
with probably a lower overall price.
Mayor Suarez: I will bet everything in my wallet and then some, whatever my
credit cards will absorb.
Mr. Sheldon: We want to bring up one more item. We were bad-mouthing one of
these out-of-town painters. We don't know them.
Mayor Suarez: Don't give us an editorial, we just wanted your simple opinion.
This Commission has to act on this, please.
Mr. Sheldon: Sir.
Commissioner Plummer: What do you mean one of the out-of-town painters? I
thought we were only talking one.
Mr. Sheldon: Well, I just want to say one thing that wasn't brought up, that
I forgot, which was lead abatement which is worth several hundred thousand
76 January 23, 1992
lt� .14�t
dollars on the west end of the Stadium which does not affect the structural
integrity of the building or the structure which can be left out also which is
going to probably get you below the budget and we're willing, if we're
offered, if you want to accept us as the low bidder, to use whatever painter,
let us offer local and I'm sure we can bring this thing down well below the
budget. And I forgot to bring up the lead abatement and nobody mentioned it.
I just remembered. It's worth several hundred thousand dollars. It's in that
three million dollar plus bid that we offered and I'm sure everybody else
offered also. It is a specialized item. There's only a handful of people in
the country that can do that.
Mayor Suarez: All right, sir, you're arguing an alternative that I happen to
like but that is not before us, yet. Maybe it will be before us, maybe it
won't. We have a motion right now to segregate and, in effect, reject the
paint portion of the subcontract and then we would have all kinds of decisions
to make from that point forward. Now, I want to hear from the Commission...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah, I withdraw my second.
Mayor Suarez: All right, withdraw the second. Now, there was an item... Yes,
I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. I like what I heard. If we can save money, I'm
always willing to listen. If we are going to be talking below the budget of
six million and we start getting closer to five and a half...
Mayor Suarez: Sounds more like music to our ears.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... it's always music to me. Then I will think that it
was worthwhile to go through this dramatic experience that we have done this
morning.
Mayor Suarez: And traumatic, too.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Yes. Indeed.
Mayor Suarez: Thank you.
Commissioner De Yurre: Mr. Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso. Uh, that is a possibility and maybe we should even table
,E this item and come back in the afternoon.
Mayor Suarez: All right, Commissioner...
"i- Mr. Sheldon: Well, may I...
Mayor Suarez: Oh no, please. We're trying to figure out what the
I ! Commissioner wants to do and...
Commissioner De Yurre: Mr. Mayor in analyzing what is being suggested here,
for example, to throw out the painting section and bid that separately, you
know, we've only focused on the painting. But I'm looking at some other
figures and there is a low of 1.3 million to a high of 2 million on the item
number 1. There's a seven hundred thousand dollar difference right there.
j
77 January 23, 1992
4 Irl
Mayor Suarez: On another sub -component. And that's actually as a percentage
may be a bigger... yeah...
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's what he said. That is what Commissioner Plummer
said.
Mayor Suarez: ... a bigger variation as a percentage of the total.
Commissioner De Yurre: Okay, now if we're talking about doing it for the
painting can't we just go ahead and do it for a number of items and bid them
out separately? And then possibly, I don't know if this done or not, I'm just
throwing this out for thought, can't we get a contractor to come in on a
percentage basis and do the job of supervising the work?
Mayor Suarez: That's a sort of cost plus arrangement. Folks, all the
alternatives are on the table. This Commission has to act. One possibility,
if this Commission thought that, if we thought there might be a consensus, is
to table the item for a period of time and see, if by any chance, the first,
the lowest bidder wants to come in with an offer to do this below our estimate
now that they know what it is, presuming that before they didn't. If we are
inclined to table the item, I'm inclined procedurally to go ahead and do it in
any event to give us time to think, including the lunch time. And in the
meantime, I do want to hear procedurally from you as to if we do that, why
that would not be fair to you, if at all. If you want to say something on
that, at your own risk. Keeping in mind that we may not reach an agreement
with them and we may re -bid the whole thing and what you say here could put us
in a...
Mr. Wadsworth: I've had difficulty, as you know, getting anywhere near the
mike. There's been a... they look like they're...
Mayor Suarez: Yes, I've noticed that one group has managed to block you
physically very effectively. Maybe the Hurricanes could use a little bit of
their help.
Mr. Wadsworth: Yeah, right. I'd like to...
Mayor Suarez: Or the Dolphins, rather, you know. Except they're not playing
in our facility, they're playing up there.
Mr. Wadsworth: I'd like to make one major point...
Mayor Suarez: And the name once again for the record, please.
Mr. Wadsworth: Walt Wadsworth, State Paving. I'd like to make a major point,
that when you begin negotiating, if you eliminate the paint, the obvious
person to negotiate with is the one with the lowest price. The one with the
lowest price is State Paving Corp. and I know they offered to negotiate, it's
very magnanimous of them, but we are the low bidder if you eliminate the...
Mayor Suarez: Their level of magnanimity is increasing as they think they
might lose this entire bid, yes.
78 January 23, 1992
AML
Mr. Wadsworth: The other thing is if you look at the bid, the way the
painting figures run, if you look at the way the painting prices run, it would
appear that perhaps the one with the lowest price was the one that was
manipulating the painting numbers. So...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, for the record. No one yet has said there
was manipulation.
Mr. Wadsworth: Well, there was an inference that that could be. Why would
six bidders...
Commissioner Plummer: No, there was an inquiry as to why there was such a
diversity in the procedure. Nobody has made any accusations...
Mr. Wadsworth: Okay.
Commissioner Plummer: ... yet.
Mr. Wadsworth: The other point I'd like to make about the variance in prices
in regard to the installation, the joist and the concrete decks and things
like this. This is not a plain vanilla project. It's a very, very
complicated project, very difficult general conditions. We can't go into the
Orange Bowl with a crane and work from the inside where we can even see the
joists. We have to pick them up from the outside, come across, signal the
crane and pick it up. These things... And to take the existing joists out
which weigh several thousand pounds in some instances they are at points where
you can't reach them with a crane. So, we may figure it one way and they
figure it another and that explains the difference. It's not like we're all
bidding painting that wall over there and it's very simple.
Mayor Suarez: It's not a fungible good, something very easy to lay a price on
it. It's...
Mr. Wadsworth: Right, and it's obvious that that firm and ours were basically
on the same page and everyone else was on some other project. So, that's all
I'd like to say on that point.
Mayor Suarez: Commissioners, I'm inclined to table the item, with or without
a motion to that effect.
Commissioner Plummer: May I inquire of you tabling the motion is to get this
bid down below the six million dollars? Is that the intent?
i
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
J? Mayor Suarez: Yeah, that's one expectation, it may not happen and we may just
simply go back to... well, we don't have a motion right now with a second, but
j we may go back to that motion or we may try to reject the whole thing and
start over again, we may try to reject it and indicate to the Manager that
each item should be bid individually. That was one of the latest suggestions
that we had. But in the meantime, maybe we ought to know if, in fact, these
folks will come in who were the lowest bidder with a bid so low that it would
ease our concerns about the painting portion and, of course, we may still want
j to tell the Manager that he's got to investigate a little more to make sure
3
79 January 23, 1992
I
that there was no fraudulent intent or some other... I mean, for example, it's
happened in the past in the City. I'm not saying it happened here. Please
don't anybody jump at me, I just want to tell a scenario. If, by defining the
specific paint to be used, there was, in effect, any kind of concerted action
$' between someone in our Administration and the various possible bidders, that
j could lead to a situation where only one subcontractor could bid for that
portion. That happened many, many years ago. You might all remember with a
contract for a provision of these chairs, I think actually, where all of a
sudden the specifications were written such that only one company in the
entire United States could dn these and it was a company that happened to be
i from the same hometown as the City Manager.
Vice Mayor Alonso: And another irregularity was the materials.
Mayor Suarez: Now, in this particular case, we don't have that concern
because the City Manager is from some little hick town in Cuba, so there's no
way that they're going to be bidding on anything here because that would also
contradict... I'm just kidding about the hick town... that would also
contradict the...
Mr. Odio: All the Santiago de Cuba people will be calling you.
Commissioner Plummer: You know, that was brought up by Joe Carollo and you
made the same presentation he made.
Mayor Suarez: Exactly.
Commissioner Plummer: You're sounding more like him everyday.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You mean to tell us they are looking like...
Mayor Suarez: All right, exactly and it would violate the neutrality acts or
the trading with the enemy act, rather. All right, Commissioner Dawkins and
we're going to go on to the next item. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: What happens if the second group decides it's lower
than the first group? Now, we're saying come back after lunch and we're going
to take the lowest bid, okay. Now, everybody out here knows what's out there,
so the present low group comes in at 2X and the guy who is now number two,
says, hey I want this job. He comes in at X and a half. Now what happens?
Mayor Suarez: The only entity that we would expect to have a new offer is the
one that is, in fact, the low bidder and they would come now, not only as the
low bidder...
Commissioner Plummer: Predicated on what?
Mayor Suarez: ... but as below our estimate.
Commissioner Dawkins: That's the ground rules.
Commissioner Plummer: But predicated on what? With or without the paint?
Because the low bidder is two different items. One if you include the paint,
one if you do not.
:C
January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Absolutely. If we were to exclude the paint, that changes the
whole formula. This does not envision that. This envisions the whole thing.
Commissioner Plummer: Who is the low bidder then?
Mayor Suarez: The low bidder.
Commissioner Plummer: Which company is he going to negotiate with?
Mayor Suarez: The low bidder on the whole item is the one that we're hoping
to hear from after lunch. Maybe we won't hear from anybody.
Commissioner Plummer: Now, let me just for the record...
Mayor Suarez: Maybe we'll reject the whole thing.
Commissioner Plummer: For the record, it is your intent...
Mayor Suarez: And cancel the Commission meeting for another five weeks. Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: ... that unless somebody volunteers to come in at less
than six... six million or less, that we're going back out to bid?
Mayor Suarez: I would think so.
Commissioner Plummer: So what you're saying is Danville has got to admit that
they had $749,000 of buffer in their contract?
Mayor Suarez: That's implicit in the possible proced...
Commissioner Plummer: I want to hear them admit that.
Mayor Suarez: Yes. All right...
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: In the meantime...
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Mr. City Attorney, yes.
Mr. Jones: Just once again to caution you as I indicated before, I think
you're really bastardizing the process...
Commissioner Plummer: We're doing what?
Mr. Jones: You're bastardizing the process because you're...
Commissioner Plummer: You pronounce that pretty good.
Mr. Jones: ... because what you're asking for is negotiations without a bid
having even been awarded, which is totally, which is totally against the grain
of the whole process.
81 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: No, procedurally, I'm just tabling the item and waiting until
after lunch to hear what the Administration proposes and that is it, folks, we
don't know where we are...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: We might be inclined to reject the whole thing.
Commissioner Plummer: May I...
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: May I at this time. Mr. Mayor, I think we have just
gone through a two hour scenario of a classic demand, that this Commission
demand a new purchasing and bidding procedure. We have got to overhaul, we
cannot survive with the procedures we're using. Now I'm not saying anybody
intentionally is doing something wrong. But, Mr. Mayor, when you send a
Kawasaki motorcycle dealer a bid out of the back of the Harley book and ask
him to bid on it, there's something wrong. I think that this Commission has
got to receive from the Administration an entirely new procedure. What we're
doing is wrong.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, yes.
Commissioner Plummer: It's not proving to be right. And as far as I'm
concerned, I would expect the Administration to come back within the next
sixty days to this Commission and say we want to overhaul our procedures. It
has got to be. There's no way that we can spend, every time we turn around,
two hours and not still have answers. Something is wrong with our procedures.
Mayor Suarez: And it is the first time in my memory that I see in the package
a totally wrong item. I mean, that is disturbing right there.
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, sir.
Mr. Odio: May I, as a personal privilege. I'd like to apologize to the
Commission, to the Mayor, to the Vice Mayor for having lost my temper. This
is not a place for it, I apologize for it. And to the public at large.
Mayor Suarez: Thank you.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Commissioner Dawkins: We will not accept it. Go ahead.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Mr. Manuel Gonzalez-Goenaga: Commissioners. Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That was nice of him.
January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Sir, we apologize to the public for your, once again, being out
of order. Please have a seat. You're not recognized and you're not in a
position to disrupt our proceedings. Have a seat. All right, Commissioners,
we should try to get through a few other items.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I'm not sure we want to tackle number 4 now.
Mayor Suarez: Please, counselor, if I were you, I would not ask too many
questions because if you noticed what the City Attorney said... He said
already this procedure is not...
Commissioner Dawkins: Bastardizing.
Mayor Suarez: ... he even used a word that I'm not going to repeat. If I
were you, I would just very sub silentio, as we say, try to see if you can get
your client in a position to give us such an overwhelmingly good bid that we
might take the legal risk involved in that and would not ask too much about
timing or anything else, except to the Administration. Please, Mr. Manager,
why don't we have them go with the project manager, talking about which, I
have to look at your memo telling me who the project managers are on all these
big projects because I think that has a lot to do with the process, too, as
suggested by my colleagues. Who exactly is in charge is important, too.
10. (A) COMMISSION INQUIRES ABOUT STATUS REPORT ON COMPLETE REVIEW OF
BURGLAR ALARM ORDINANCE.
(B) DISCUSSION CONCERNING PROTEST FROM DESIGN DISTRICT CONCERNING
HIGH INCIDENCE OF CRIME IN THE AREA -- REQUEST FOR TAX ABATEMENT
DUE TO LACK OF POLICE PRESENCE AND SUPPORT.
(C) DIRECT CITY ATTORNEY TO INCLUDE IN THE BURGLAR ALARM ORDINANCE A
SPECIFIC CLAUSE THAT WOULD IMPOSE A FINE FOR ALL POLICE
RESPONSES TO BUSINESSES OR INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE EXPIRED
PERMITS -- DIRECT ADMINISTRATION TO REVIEW PERFORMANCE OF ALARM
COMPANIES.
Mayor Suarez: Item 4. Alarm ordinance. Update.
Commissioner Plummer: I asked at the last Commission meeting that a new
ordinance be drawn and I don't have anything in my...
Mr. Odio: Let me tell you what we're doing. We have received, and I have
personally met with the Police Department on this. First of all, we'd like to
announce that, I think the Chief did last week, that we will respond to all
alarms. That there is no reason why we should not respond to all alarms.
While...
Commissioner Plummer: You know, Mr. Manager.
Mr. Odio: Wait. May I finish?
Commissioner Plummer: No, let me just stop right there.
83
January 23, 1992
Mr. Odio: But let me finish, please.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me stop right there. OK? Mr. Manager, you know,
this Commission had the Chief here...
Commissioner Dawkins: What item are we on?
Commissioner Plummer: The Burglar Alarm.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Four.
Commissioner Plummer: Number four.
Commissioner Dawkins: You sure? It's not a pocket...
Commissioner Plummer: We asked him at the meeting here to do that and all we
got is an argument why it could not be done.
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor.
Commissioner Plummer: Then, three or four days later, what we asked suddenly
appeared in the newspaper that it was going to be done.
Mr. Odio: Well, I don't know how... why that happened.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's right. That's right.
Mr. Odio: I do know, I think I informed you that I had a two-day meeting with
the Police Department. As part of that meeting, we discussed this alarm
thing. And, you know what?
Commissioner Plummer: It was published in the paper prior to the meeting.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, it was.
Mr. Odio: It makes sense to change if the public is right. We cannot take
any chances of somebody not... we're not responding to an alarm until... we do
have, I think, a very... I went to the County and got a copy of the County
Alarm. We went to the Coral Gables Police Department and got a copy of that.
I think we're going to come back the next meeting with very comprehensive
changes that we're going to offer to change the alarm system. But in the
meantime, we have to respond.
Commissioner Plummer: I asked that the City Attorney come back at this
meeting with a new ordinance. I'm asking where is it?
Mr. Jones: Commissioner Plummer. We met with, or should I say attempted to
meet, with the Department, Police Department. We're waiting on some further
input and I understand what you are concerned...
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, you did not have that purview. You were told to
come back at this meeting. I don't give a damn what the Police Department
told you or you attempted to do with the Police Department. You were under
instructions to come back.
84 January 23, 1992
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Mr. Jones: Mr. Plummer, I really beg to differ with you. I understand what
the instruction was, but 1f I don't have the necessary information to put in
the form of an ordinance, I cannot unilaterally do it.
Commissioner Plummer: Did you explain that to the Police Department.
Mr. Jones: Absolutely. It was done by memo that we would work on it when we
got the information that we requested.
Commissioner Plummer: And so they're just going to put off what this
Commission's instruction was. The tail is wagging the dog. This Commission
asked and requested, and I don't understand what is the purview of the
departments to put this Commission's policy off.
Mr. Odio: Well, Commissioner Plummer, I don't think you want us to bring back
something in a rush and then we have problems all over again. I personally
went to the County and said I want to see what you people are doing with your
alarm, burglar alarm ordinance.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, that's not what bothers me. What bothers
me is when the City Attorney tells me that he attempted...
Mr. Odio: They have met.
Commissioner Plummer: ... to meet with the Police Department and was unable
to.
Mr. Odio: They have met.
Lt. Longueira: We have met. We met.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Mr. City Attorney, did you not make that
statement on the record?
Mr. Jones: I made that statement and...
Commissioner Plummer: That's what bothers me.
Mr. Jones: OK. Let me...
Commissioner Plummer: What in the... who in the hell is running the ship
around here?
Commissioner Dawkins: You're not.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's a good question.
Commissioner Plummer: I want to tell you, it's becoming more and more evident
every day. Now, when we tell the City Attorney, we tell the Administration,
to do something, I expect it to be done! If not, I want to tell you, we can
find somebody who will. Now, I'm just tired of this.
Commissioner Dawkins: Promises. Promises. Promises. Promises.
85 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Well, hey, let me tell you...
Mr. Jones: Commissioner Plummer.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me tell this Commission, OK? We met, unfortunately
you all could not make it, we met yesterday with the Northeast design
district. And you know what they're telling this Commission? I'm forwarding
a copy to each one of you. Their crime is so bad, they are demanding a ten
percent reduction in their taxes. OK? Now, let me tell you something.
That's going to catch on. Somebody better understand around here. If we are
the elected officials, and we are to set policy, that policy better damn well
be followed. Because if not, we're the ones who are not living up to the
trust of the public. When I set a policy - I, this Commission - set a policy,
I expect it to be adhered to. The least common courtesy would say, hey, Mr.
Plummer, I'm trying to reach the Police Department and I can't get them to
meet with me. I didn't hear that. OK? All I'm saying to you is, buddies, my
friends, I am going to call people on the carpet.
Mayor Suarez: And if not, you know what the City Attorney really should do is
prepare an ordinance that reflects this Commission's desires and policy
initiative and let the Administration try to fill in the bones with a little
substance and let them get the embarrassment of it at the Commission meeting.
It's not the first time that we put together...
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I'm glad we're all on the same level today.
Mayor Suarez: ... an ordinance without having all the items...
Vice Mayor Alonso: We are exactly the same thing.
Mayor Suarez: ... yeah, all the analytical support. That's my suggestion,
Mr. City Attorney, when you don't get...
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor, if I may...
Mayor Suarez: ... what you believe to be the proper cooperation from the
Administration. Because we have this thing going back and forth, it's like a
ping pong.
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait, please. Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: I'd like to ask the Administration, what's the
difference between burglary and robbery?
Lt. Longueira: Commissioner, normally robbery involves some type of weapon
and it's to the person. Burglary is when they break into an unoccupied house
or a building or something like that.
Commissioner Dawkins: Is there, and I don't know how to say this, certain
classes or certain degree of burglary? Like burglary one, two and three. Is
there such a thing?
Commissioner Plummer: There's larceny which is... it depends on whether it's
a felony or a misdemeanor.
Mayor Suarez: It depends on the amount.
Commissioner Plummer: Above three hundred dollars is a felony; under three
hundred is a petty misdemeanor.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right. If it's above, if it's a felony, what's the
procedure?
Lt. Longueira: Sir, what we do is we write a police report.
Commissioner Dawkins: Who will?
Lt. Longueira: The Police Department writes the offense report on the
incident being reported.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK. On the burglary at her place of business, what was
the amount of money?
Lt. Longueira: As I understand...
Commissioner Dawkins: I mean alleged. Alleged.
Lt. Longueira: As I understand it when she said two weeks ago, fifty thousand
dollars.
Commissioner Dawkins: So, that's...
Vice Mayor Alonso: The first time.
Commissioner Dawkins: So, that's a big...
Lt. Longueira: That's a major burglary.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's the first time.
Commissioner Dawkins: That's a major burglary. Now in a major... in
f burglary, aren't we supposed to attempt to solve it?
Lt. Longueira: Yes, sir and we have a procedure to do that.
3 Commissioner Dawkins: All right. Now, how can you solve it with an officer
;.� writing a report? For fifty thousand dollars, we should have, in my opinion,
went to six houses in the back of that place, six houses in the front and six
houses on either side of 1t asking people if they saw anything. Did we do
that?
Lt. Longueira: I'm not aware.
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Commissioner Dawkins: OK. All right, that's okay.
Lt. Longueira: Hold on one second, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right, I'll send a memo... No, no, no. I'm not...
no, I'm not going through this. I will send you a memo with a carbon copy to
her of the questions that I have at the procedure, because I've yet to hear
anybody say that we went sixty feet east, sixty feet west, south and north of
this facility to ask anybody if they saw anything. OK? So, I'll send you...
I'll send a memo to the Manager and the Manager can get me a response. Thank
you, Mr. Mayor. I will not hold up your meeting. Thank you.
Mayor Suarez: Thank you, Commissioner. All right. Do you need anything else
on the burglar alarm ordinance, Commissioner?
Commissioner Plummer: Sir,...
Vice Mayor Alonso: To see it.
Commissioner Plummer: ... I think what we need is something...
Mayor Suarez: To see it.
Commissioner Plummer: ... that we are going...
Vice Mayor Alonso: That helps.
Commissioner Plummer: ... to respond to all alarms and we have to apply a
penalty. Now,...
Mayor Suarez: For those that are obviously without permit, or...
Commissioner Plummer: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: ... beyond their limit or whatever.
Commissioner Plummer: For whatever reason they are not on our active list, I
think that we have to... we're penalizing people who do apply by the rules.
We are now letting the people who don't apply by the rules off of the hook and
that is absolutely wrong.
Lt. Longueira: Sir, can I give you an up...
Commissioner Plummer: Now, what I would like this afternoon, Mr. City
Attorney, so that you can get an appointment whenever you can get an
appointment with the Department, that you come back with no less than an
ordinance reading that those people who do not have an active permit be fined
whatever this Commission, and I recommend a hundred and fifty dollars per
response since it's a hundred dollars for those who do play by the rules, so
that we at least have something in effect. Keeping in mind, Lieutenant
Longueira told me that last year we had over ten thousand no response calls.
Am I correct?
88 January 23, 1992
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Lt. Longueira: No, there weren't. Right, ten thousand.
Commissioner Plummer: Many thousand, OK?
Lt. Longueira: Ten thousand that we did not respond to.
Commissioner Plummer: Now, why should those many thousand get off scot free
now and us who play by the rules, are penalized? There's something absolutely
wrong. Now, I'm saying as a stop -gap measure, this afternoon, that the City
Attorney come back with an ordinance, including, or an amendment to the
ordinance, that those who do not have an active permit, per response is a
hundred and fifty dollars. If my colleagues feel that that's fair.
Lt. Longueira: Sir,...
Commissioner Plummer: I think it's fair based on the fact that playing by the
rules is a hundred dollars, those who don't play by the rules should have an
even steeper penalty.
Lt. Longueira: Sir,...
Commissioner Plummer: Now, if that's with an accordance of my colleagues.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, sir. Lieutenant, any problems with that?
Lt. Longueira: Let me update you on what we did. We changed an internal
policy that said we were now going to respond to, until we got the ordinance
changed, to places that have a new alarm, never had a permit or they had a
permit that expired and they hadn't renewed it. OK? We were going to respond
to those until we got the new ordinance. OK? But we were not going to
respond to people whose permits were revoked after going through the
procedures over and over and over again and we can't get an alarm fixed.
Commissioner Plummer: I disagree with you, sir. I think you have a
liability.
Vice Mayor Alonso: They are not going to pay taxes any more?
Commissioner Plummer: I think you have a liability...
Vice Mayor Alonso: They are taxpayers.
Commissioner Plummer: You know, let...
Vice Mayor Alonso: They are taxpayers of Miami.
Commissioner Plummer: ... so you understand. Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Let me give you one. What he is saying for those who have not, after the
twelve that are on a no response, if a monitoring company calls, they will not
respond.
Lt. Longueira: Right.
89 January 23, 1992
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Commissioner Plummer: Yet, if a neighbor calls, they go. See that's the
difference. They're not telling you that. All right? I'm saying you go.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Of course.
Commissioner Plummer: OK? And by that you charge them proportionately.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Exactly.
Commissioner Plummer: I guarantee you when those bills build up, they'll take
out their permit and they'll get that alarm fixed.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Exactly.
Lt. Longueira: Commissioner, if you do that, even the revoked, you're totally
going... you might as well not have an ordinance. I'll tell you that.
Because people don't pay their bills. You can put a lien on...
Commissioner Plummer: Why don't they pay their bills?
Lt. Longueira: Don't ask me. They don't pay the bills.
Commissioner Plummer: Then the Administration is not doing what they should
be doing.
Lt. Longueira: The County's got over three million dollars in unpaid fines
from alarms from their ordinance.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir.
Lt. Longueira: OK. Over three million dollars.
Mr. Odio: But, Commissioner, let me say this, please. I even went as far
as... I think we need to look at a possibility of licensing the alarm
companies and asking for a performance bond.
Lt. Longueira: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: That's not your purview, sir. It's Dade County's under
minimum home rule.
Mr. Odio: Well, but I think we...
Commissioner Plummer: I agree with you that the County should do it.
Mr. Odio: We cannot afford not to respond to the homeowner or some
businessman. But we need to look at the alarm companies and if they need to
be licensed or performing bond, put up front so that we know we're going to
get...
Commissioner Plummer: That's good for overall.
Mr. Odio: But that's why we have to take our time to...
90 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, the discrepancy comes in the fact that you
won't respond to a monitoring company, but you will respond to the next door
neighbor. That's a discrepancy.
Vice Mayor Alonso: It is.
Commissioner Plummer: It is not consistent. It is not consistent.
Mr. Odio: 1 do know this, that... as I got into last week, it's more complex
and dangerous than I figured it would be because you're playing with peoples'
lives if you don't respond.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Of course, that's exactly the point.
Mr. Odio: And so if we rush another ordinance in here to satisfy the need to
have it here today, I think we are making a mistake.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm saying, Mr. Mayor - Mr. Manager, put in a temporary
ordinance to address what we're doing.
Mr. Odio: That's different.
Commissioner Plummer: If in fact you change it at a later time, then change
it. But right now, to cover us, to make the people who are playing by the
rules say, hey, you're treating us fair, then put to the detriment those who
are not.
Mr. Odio: Well, then make it simple. We respond to all calls and if it's a
false alarm, we charge them right there, we give them...
Commissioner Plummer: If they're not permitted.
Mr. Odio: If they are not permitted. Right.
Commissioner Plummer: Exactly.
Mr. Odio: But, we respond to all calls. If the... Fine, Commissioner, I
agree, but I didn't want to bring back to you...
Commissioner Plummer: Does my colleagues feel that a hundred and fifty is
1 fair? I'll offer that or whatever fair number my colleagues think is fair.
1 As a temporary matter.
Mayor Suarez: Well, we're going to build it into the motion, but possibly
} that may be the right amount. When people start getting a hundred fifty, if
s you post it right on their door as a kind of quote, unquote, a "ticket" the
moment that you get there and find out that they don't have a valid permit, I
i think you are going to get a quick, quick...
{
Lt. Longueira: We follow up... when we get a respon...
Commissioner Plummer: I'll offer, Mr. Mayor...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well.
91 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: ... at this time a motion that says that we ask for an
amendment to the burglar alarm ordinance for those people who have not taken
out a permit or do not have a valid permit that each and every response is a
hundred and fifty dollar fine. I so move.
Mayor Suarez: So moved. Why don't you just make that as a suggestion since
you're not going to have an ordinance today in any event.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, we can get an ordinance this afternoon. An
emergency ordinance.
Mr. Odio: Temporary ordinance so that we can bring back...
Commissioner Plummer: Until you come back and give us a full ordinance.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I just want to remind this Commission that the reason why
people are installing alarms that are very costly is because they fear for
their lives and property. And through their taxes, we are supposed to provide
police protection and guarantee that they live in a city in which their
property and lives are protected. I just want you to remember that that's the
case. Alarms are expensive and they do it because they fear, as this lady,
after all of her property was taken, fifty thousand dollars' worth, then she
had to install an alarm at the suggestion of the Police Department. It seems
to me that taxpayers deserve better.
Ms. Elba Morales: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait. Are we going to get into a public hearing aspect?
Would you like to hear...
Mr. Odio: So, what is...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, I think that since she's here, for convenience, but
I think we should have a public hearing for this.
Mayor Suarez: OK, why don't you make a quick statement, Elba, please,. but...
Ms. Morales: For the record, Elba Morales, 701 N.W. 36th Avenue. The reason
I'm here and that's why I would like to express this to you as a taxpayer and
somebody who was hit hard with this particular problem, I think that the first
problem that we would have to address would be that of the companies. The day
that they burglarized my office the second time, that was the day that the
alarm was installed. That same day. OK? Now, I think that if that happened
to me as it did, I did not know, I was unaware and I cannot remember that the
company told me that I had to take a permit. When I paid for the fee, I
understood that I didn't have to do anything but that everything was provided
to me.
Commissioner Plummer: Did you go back and sue them?
Ms. Morales: No, I did not because...
92 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Well, but... excuse me. If you assumed that and you
understood that and they didn't do it, then they're liable for not doing it.
Ms. Morales: I cannot, Mr. Plummer, in good faith tell you that they didn't
tell me. OK?
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, OK.
Ms. Morales: I do not remember them telling me. They did tell me that they
had told me. I do not remember that happening. But what I'm saying is that I
think that we have to look to the companies first rather than looking at the
citizen. I think that there should be some proviso, something should be done
that these companies that are allowed here to have the alarms that they have
to go through a process, a bond or something. It is not fair. I am not
saying now that the people pay, some people may not want to pay. I was not
one of them and I got hit. But what I'm saying is that I think that first we
have to look at the companies. There should be something in that ordinance to
make the company either responsible for taking out the permit. Even if they
charge it to the client, I am not opposed to paying the money. I would not be
opposed to paying anything.
Mayor Suarez: I think a permit... to cut you short, to cut you short. I
think a permit of that sort, we have the ability by ordinance to specify who
has to take it out.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: I think we... that is within our faculties.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor. You're kidding yourself.
Vice Mayor Alonso: It should be the companies.
Commissioner Plummer: You are kidding yourself.
Mayor Suarez: And I think that it's a very simple...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me.
Mayor Suarez: ... proposal that you made and very logical, that the company
should take it. I don't think we should have to take... the individual.
Ms. Morales: Absolutely.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Mr. Mayor, when I recently put in a new
burglar alarm, OK, I put in a state-of-the-art burglar alarm, they came back
with a bill after the agreed upon price for forty-five dollars. I called the
company and I said what is this extra forty-five dollars. That's the City of
Miami permit fee. I said, what permit fee? Mechanical. I said, mechanical,
what do you mean? Well we have to mechanically have an inspection. I said
excuse me. There has never been an inspector here to my house from the City
of Miami to inspect the alarm. I am not going to pay that fee. They were
charging us forty-five dollars, City of Miami, mechanical inspection fee. And
nobody ever inspected it from the City of Miami. Nobody. And I refuse to pay
it.
93 January 23, 1992
Mr. Odio: I think we need to do something with the alarm companies like we're
doing with the towing companies and everybody else. They have to get a
permit, a license, whatever you call it, and then put up a performance bond so
that if something happens, we can collect.
Mayor Suarez: Well, in this particular case... before you get carried away
with permit fees and such, all she's saying is that the person on whom the
existing permit fee falls, be the alarm company and not the individual.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I think it's fair.
Commissioner Plummer: That they not be able to hook it up.
Mayor Suarez: Exactly.
j Commissioner Plummer: ... they not be able to hook it up until they have got
their permit.
_ Mayor Suarez: So, we're not talking about creation of a whole new set of fees
3 and permits here. One other thing that should be looked at... I wish you
would look at it and give us back, Chief or Lieutenant or Major or is it
i Chief, also, Assistant Chief.
Commissioner Plummer: Chief. The only Chief that gets out and rides the
streets. He's the only Chief that rides the streets of this City.
Commissioner Dawkins: I beg to differ.
Commissioner Plummer: Who's the other one?
Commissioner Dawkins: Arnold Gibbs.
Commissioner Plummer: I ain't seen him.
Mayor Suarez: All right.
Commissioner Dawkins: Well he was in my neighborhood (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
Mayor Suarez: Let all the Assistant Chiefs be aware of the fact that this
Commission would like to see them out there in the streets a little bit more.
Commissioner Dawkins: I've seen himin my neighborhood.
Mayor Suarez: Right. We have to look at the fact that...
Commissioner Dawkins: And I haven't seen him in my neighborhood either.
Commissioner Plummer: You don't.
Commissioner Dawkins: No, I don't blame you. I don't blame you. I don't
want to be out there either.
94 January 23, 1992
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Mayor Suarez: These alarm companies... Most people feel when they install an
alarm that, unless they get it clarified, that the alarm company when there's
an alarm, goes out there. If they knew that all that happens is that company
just sits there and calls the police, you know, 1 mean big deal. And maybe we
ought to look at exactly what the implications are of the service that they
actually render. Because if they don't even come and look at your place, they
just call the police, the police happens for its own procedures or its own...
Commissioner Plummer: That's all they do.
Vice Mayor Alonso: But Mr. Mayor, it doesn't make much sense that the alarm
company come and check the alarm at that time. By the time they arrive, check
the alarm...
Mayor Suarez: Oh, no I assume that they...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... and go through the process...
Mayor Suarez: ... that they come and they actually actively pursue what it is
that's taking place at your home or place of business. That they go out there
and help you to stop the perpetrator of the crime. They don't do any such
thing. They just sit there and they call by some kind of an automated system
the police department. Some kind of a sleepy phone operator...
Vice Mayor Alonso: They call the right people. The police department.
Mayor Suarez: ... and that's not much of a service. We could probably do
that directly. We could probably do that directly by technology.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. God forbid.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, it would be tremendous responsibility.
Mr. Raul Martinez: And let me add, if I may. If I may. We also tell them...
Mayor Suarez: We could probably do that directly, the technology is there.
And then we would need no alarm companies if that's all they do, folks, think
about that. Now, anyhow...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Mr. Mayor, just so you know, please don't
recommend that. We...
Mayor Suarez: I am not recommending anything. I'm just saying that...
Commissioner Plummer: We changed it.
Mayor Suarez: ... if that's all they do they get the electronic...
Commissioner Plummer: All you need is a...
Mayor Suarez: ... message that your alarm is off and they send an electronic
message through. A human being that's sleepy and doesn't know the area,
doesn't know anything other than an alarm is going off there. That could be
done by simple electronic signal. It doesn't tell the police much and I'm
95 January 23, 1992
i
sure we could require a variety of things in relation to what an alarm company
does, folks, if we're inclined to regulate in this area. I'm not sure that we
want to go to that kind of regulation, but we may. Yes. c
Vice Mayor Alonso: One quick question before we adjourn. What is the average _
time, response time, for an alarm?
Mr. Martinez: It requires two officers for an alarm call.
Commissioner Plummer: That's not the question.
Vice Mayor Alonso: The time.
Mr. Martinez: And the time is around thirty-five to forty minutes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thirty-five to forty minutes. Terrific. People, don't
install alarms.
Mr. Martinez: No, no. I'm, sorry, I'm sorry. It's not the response time.
It's the time it takes to service the whole call. It's a priority five
dispatch, so it's about a five minute dispatch.
Commissioner Plummer: No way.
j Mr. Martinez: Priority four dispatch. It must be dispatched within five
i` minutes.
Commissioner Plummer: You run a time and you will find that your average five
minute dispatch is no way.
Mayor Suarez: We know that five minutes is not realistic. We don't need
learned counsel to tell us that. You know why we know that? Because our
emergency rescue doesn't do five minutes most of the time. So, we know they
don't do five minutes, folks. Thank you for all the help we're getting from
the audience today. Now you can send us a bill, too. Why is this?
Commissioner Plummer: I would like a time study done on the average response
time. OK? Because you know and I know, Raul, that if they can't get a backup
and they're out playing this little game called "roadblocks," they cancel the
call until they can get a backup. And that's understood.
Mr. Martinez: They don't... They hold the call until they get a backup.
Commissioner Plummer: They cancel the call. They 07 the first unit until
they can get a second.
Mayor Suarez: Well I'm not sure it's all that different, cancelling and
holding.
Commissioner Dawkins: You can't argue with J.L., J.L. has a radio in his car.
Mayor Suarez: He times them. He times them. He has his own little computer
there. Folks, we are at item 5 and we are also at lunch time.
96 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: What time are we coming back?
Mayor Suarez: If anyone wants to...
Commissioner Plummer: What time are we coming back?
Mayor Suarez: Did we lose Commissioner De Yurre?
Commissioner Plummer: Wait a minute. I had a motion on the floor. Did you
withdraw your second?
Mayor Suarez: If anyone wanted to move item 5 because I know he's been
waiting all morning and we did defer his item before. Mr. FabregasIs
contract. Commissioner De Yurre I know...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Which one? I forgot.
Commissioner Plummer: I had a motion on the floor about an amendment to the
ordinance, the burglar alarm.
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Vice Mayor Alonso: What it was? State it again for the record.
Commissioner Dawkins: Fiberglass?
Mayor Suarez: Fabregas. Mr. Fiberglass. We're going to call you Fiberglass,
you know that. He has a kind of a teflon coating. Yes, Commissioner Plummer,
you had a motion.
Commissioner Plummer: I thought I had a motion on the floor, maybe I didn't
get a second...
Mayor Suarez: Which was?
Commissioner Plummer: ... about the ordinance, amending the ordinance to
apply a penalty for those who don't play by the games of the burglar alarm.
Is this Commission not concerned about it?
Mayor Suarez: What is the present penalty in a circumstance as...
Commissioner Plummer: The present penalty runs from twenty-five dollars to a
hundred dollars. I'm suggesting that until they come back with a unified
plan, that we charge those who don't play by the game a hundred and fifty
dollars.
Mayor Suarez: No, but you meant to those that don't have a permit at all.
Commissioner Plummer: Don't play by the game.
Mayor Suarez: No, because the sliding scale you gave has to do with a certain
number of alarms...
Commissioner Plummer: Those who...
97 January 23, 1992
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Mayor Suarez: ... beyond the limit.
Commissioner Plummer: ... that applies...
Mayor Suarez: But you're talking about the one that has no permit at all.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm talking about...
Mayor Suarez: All right. So moved. I have no problem with a hundred and
fifty for that. What do you think? Do you want to...
Vice Mayor Alonso: I'm not ready to vote on something like this.
Mayor Suarez: ... take it under advisement?
( Vice Mayor Alonso: No.
I
Mayor Suarez: Would you withdraw the motion until we have the ordinance, ...
Commissioner Plummer: Sure.
Mayor Suarez: ... please, and we'll fill in the blanks. Thank you. Item 5.
If anyone wants to handle it.
Commissioner Plummer: Just keeping in the back of your mind...
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Just keeping in the back of your mind, those who don't
play by the rules, by inaction of this Commission, are not paying a dime.
Vice Mayor Alonso: They are paying taxes.
Mayor Suarez: Well...
Commissioner Plummer: OK, well then take it off who play by
the rules.
Mayor Suarez: We may have an ordinance in the next few hours. I thought you
wanted the ordinance back by this afternoon, didn't you?
Commissioner Plummer: That's what I've asked... Well, I asked her two weeks
ago to be back today. So I doubt seriously...
Mayor Suarez: Well after this discussion...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then we take it from their salary.
Mayor Suarez: After the expert testimony that we've heard, I think the City
Attorney is in a very good position to prepare an ordinance for this
afternoon.
Commissioner De Yurre: Mr. Mayor.
98 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner De Yurre: I think that we need to understand one thing. Yes,
they're paying taxes, but I'm paying taxes...
Commissioner Plummer: And I play by the rules and I'm paying taxes.
Commissioner De Yurre: ... and I won't pay my permit and then nobody's going
to pay the permit. That's what we have to avoid.
Mayor Suarez: Sure. I mean, there are some other aspects to it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then you second the motion.
Commissioner Plummer: Is it within my purview to ask that an ordinance come
back with the number blank?
11. EXECUTE AGREEMENT WITH JOSE FABREGAS, FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES
CONCERNING DEVELOPMENT AND CONSTRUCTION SUPERVISION OF CITY -SPONSORED
SCATTERED SITE AFFORDABLE HOMEOWNERSHIP PROGRAM, THE ST. HUGH OAKS
VILLAGE PROJECT, AND TO CONDUCT INSPECTIONS OF RENOVATION ACTIVITIES AT
COUNTY -OWNED PUBLIC HOUSING PROJECTS.
Mayor Suarez: Do you want to move item 5? This is the one you had wanted...
or do you want to make him come back after lunch?
Commissioner De Yurre: He can go have lunch. I'll move it.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Moved. Seconded. Any discussion? If not, please
call the roll on item 5.
Commissioner Plummer: What...
Commissioner Dawkins: Item 5, J. L.
Commissioner Plummer: The City Manager recommends item 5?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: The last time.
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, he's been recommending it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, several times.
` 99 January 23, 1992
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner De Yurre, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-47
A RESOLUTION, WITH ATTACHMENTS, AUTHORIZING THE CITY
MANAGER TO EXECUTE AN AGREEMENT, IN SUBSTANTIALLY THE
ATTACHED FORM, BETWEEN THE CITY OF MIAMI AND JOSE
FABREGAS, AN INDIVIDUAL, FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, IN
CONNECTION WITH THE DEVELOPMENT AND CONSTRUCTION
SUPERVISION OF THE CITY SPONSORED SCATTERED SITE
AFFORDABLE HOMEOWNERSHIP PROGRAM, THE ST. HUGH OAKS
VILLAGE PROJECT, AND TO CONDUCT INSPECTIONS OF
RENOVATION ACTIVITIES AT COUNTY OWNED PUBLIC HOUSING
PROJECTS FOR A PERIOD OF ONE (1) YEAR FOR A TOTAL FEE
IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $20,000, WITH FUNDS
THEREFOR ALLOCATED FROM CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT
NO. 321034, "SCATTERED SITE AFFORDABLE HOUSING
DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM."
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Alonso, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor. I'd like a...
Mayor Suarez: Yes, on the item. We're adjourned until 2:00 PM.
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor. I'd like to...
Mayor Suarez: We'll try to take it up at 2:00. I know some Commissioners
have to leave early and I'm one of them.
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: At this point, item 17 was
withdrawn by the Administration.
THEREUPON THE CITY COMMISSION WENT INTO A LUNCHEON
RECESS AT 12:05 AND RECONVENED AT 2:10, WITH ALL
MEMBERS OF THE CITY COMMISSION FOUND TO BE PRESENT,
WITH THE EXCEPTION OF COMMISSIONER VICTOR DE YURRE.
100 January 23, 1992
12• BRIEF COMMENTS BY VICE MAYOR ALONSO AND COMMISSIONER PLUMMER
ADDRESSING PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WHERE THEY HAVE ENCOUNTERED
DIFFICULTIES WHILE PARKING AT CITY HALL.
Mayor Suarez: Will this Commission please come to order. It's been brought
to our attention, without belaboring the point, because I've got to...
Commissioner Plummer: Where's Victor?
Mayor Suarez: ... leave at 7:15 PM tonight. Very good. But it's been
brought to our attention...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Where are you guys going?
Mayor Suarez: ... just so you take it under advisement and kind of look it
over.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor. May I just... I'm assuming we're going to
wait a minute or two for De Yurre.
Mayor Suarez: J. L., let me just... Since...
Commissioner Plummer: May I put something on the record?
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, except you just interrupted what I was saying.
Commissioner Plummer: Go ahead.
Mayor Suarez: Just about the issue of parking outside and we watch a little
bit when it's rainy, like today, that apparently some of the parking spots are
either taken or double parked or just inaccessible for people who want to get
dropped off. The situation on Saturdays, I don't even have to tell you about.
I've already given you some memos on that. But a couple of Saturdays ago,
this whole rotunda area was taken up. Our particular spaces were used and
there were some folks that I don't think were City employees organizing the
whole thing again. So I think we probably could make money off of the parking
if we control it for events. This was for the gun show, by the way. But
today we've had some complaints about the parking out there. Maybe you ought
to...
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: At this point, Commissioner De
Yurre entered the meeting at 2:12 PM.
Comnissioner Plummer: You do. You get three dollars a car.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah.
101 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: They get three dollars a car.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Even that day that you're talking about, Commissioner De
Yurre and myself we had difficulties finding a parking spot. We were told by
the person who was handling the parking, that we were not allowed to park on a
City facility. Then Commissioner De Yurre tried to explain to the gentleman
that he did not understand the system. He got very upset with both of us.
Commissioner De Yurre decided to leave and I left my car under the advisement
that my car was going to be towed away. He didn't.
Commissioner Plummer: Has his replacement been chosen?
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's a very smart thought.
Commissioner Plummer: Hey, don't feel bad. I went to the Orange Bowl the
other day and they threw me out of the press box telling me that I had no
right to be there and then followed me out to make sure I wasn't there. I -
said I had more than a pass, I had the deed.
Mayor Suarez: Did you tell him that you're checking on some joists that
seemed to be not in good shape and the whole press box is about to fall?
Commissioner Plummer: Incredible!
13. COMMISSIONER PLUMMER CRITICIZES WORDING CONTAINED IN BID SPECIFICATIONS.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let me put something on the record because
some people think that I was lying or crazy or both. I made a comment before
about the police uniforms. May I read into the record from the RFP (request
for proposal)? OK? The zippers. The trousers shall be closed with a talon
42 memory locked zipper. The zipper tape must have been treated for press to
last finishing. There shall be a brass button stop at the base of the zipper
chain. A straight bar tack shall be sewn through the outside of the garment
to the inside at the bottom of the fly. It shall be sewn through the zipper
tape. The right and left fly and the right fly lining. The right and left
fly shall be joined by an additional bar tack located below the bottom zipper
stopped on the inside of the trousers. This bar tack will reduce stress on
the left fly and zipper. And it goes on and on. And we sit here and wonder
why thousands and thousands of dollars are going out the window. Now that's
just one out of thirteen items relating to a pair of pants.
Commissioner De Yurre: The great fly caper.
Commissioner Plummer: The fly caper. You know, you can laugh about it. You
can laugh about it. But let me tell you something. Something is radically
wrong.
Vice Mayor Alonso: We have to laugh or cry. Believe me. I took this item
laughing and if we need memory for that, then we are in horrible shape.
102 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: And you know, if you really want to go to extremes, I
want somebody to explain to me why we're buying underpants for a bowling team.
Commissioner Dawkins: For six years, J. L. has been making that same speech.
Over and over...
Commissioner Plummer: Nobody does anything about it.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... and nothing's been done about it. So maybe, maybe
we won't listen to it next year. Maybe he'll move so I can help him do
something about it.
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Thank you.
Commissioner Dawkins: Now come back here thirty days from today, ninety days
from today and you'll hear the same speech. Because it will happen again and
J. L. will point it out to us again.
14. ADMINISTRATION ANNOUNCES WITHDRAWAL OF AN OFFICIAL PROTEST BY JUDSON AND
PARTNERS CONCERNING AWARD OF REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS (RFP) FOR
PROFESSIONAL ARCHITECTURAL AND ENGINEERING SERVICES FOR THE DESIGN,
PREPARATION OF CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS AND CONSTRUCTION ADMINISTRATION OF
THE OLYMPIC POOL COMPLEX AT CHARLES HADLEY PARK.
Mayor Suarez: Item 6. Approve Chief Procurement Officer's decision.
Ms. Judy Carter: Commissioners, that protest has been withdrawn...
Mayor Suarez: OK.
Ms. Carter: ... by Judson and Partners...
Mayor Suarez: Need we Jo anything...
Ms. Carter: ... and I have in my possession...
Mayor Suarez: ... on the item before you go too much into it? Do we need any
action from the Commission? We don't...
Ms. Carter: Now that it's been withdrawn, City Attorney.
Mayor Suarez: Thank you.
A. Quinn Jones, Esq.: No, no further...
103 January 23, 1992
15. APPROVE FINDINGS OF COMPETITIVE SELECTION COMMITTEE AS TO MOST QUALIFIED
TEAMS TO PROVIDE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES FOR THE DESIGN / PREPARATION OF
CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS / CONSTRUCTION ADMINISTRATION OF AN OLYMPIC POOL
COMPLEX AT CHARLES HADLEY PARK -- AUTHORIZE NEGOTIATIONS WITH MOST
QUALIFIED TEAMS IN RANK ORDER AND PRESENT NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT FOR
APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayor Suarez: Item 7. Findings of the consultants, selection committees to
the most qualified teams, professional services, design preparation,
construction documents, construction administration of the Charles Hadley
Park. I believe we... This is the item that we previously deferred.
Mr. Herb Bailey: It was deferred. In fact, it wasn't deferred. It was sent
back by the Commission and we were directed to convene a new committee with
members on it selected by the Administration and the members of the
Commission. We have done so. We met on the 23rd and the committee has heard
presentations and reviewed material submitted by the proposers and we have
submitted to the Manager, for your consideration, the result of that
committee's evaluation.
Mayor Suarez: Are we in a position to act on it today, Herb, or are...
Mr. Bailey: Yes, we are.
Mayor Suarez: What is the recommendation?
Mr. Bailey: We recommend as is indicated in your packet, and I'm trying to
find mine, that the findings of the new competitive selection committee as is
recommended to the City Manager consider the following teams. Ranked number
one, Thaddeus Cohen Architects. Ranked number two, Bellon & Taylor
Architects. Ranked number three, Politech, Inc. and four, Raleigh Frazier and
Associates. That is the committee recommendation after one day of
presentations and reviews and scoring those presentations and reviewing the
material in accordance with the request for proposal. We had on the committee
ten people and we do have the scoring from each one of them. Out of that ten
committee people, there were five new people who voted for this recommendation
along with the other five old ones.
Mayor Suarez: Herb, I remember the issue of the local presence of Thaddeus
Cohen and Associates being brought to our attention with a variety of
allegations and/or statements or clarifications as to the insufficiency of
their residence. Has that all been considered...
Mr. Bailey: All of that was taken...
Mayor Suarez: ... and do you have any findings on any of that?
Mr. Bailey: All of that was taken into consideration for those that are
local. I would like to say that neither one of them are from Miami, neither
one of them is, rather, from Miami; however, they all have Miami participants.
104 January 23, 1992
s
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Mayor Suarez: I never thought I'd hear anyone here correct themselves on that
fine and grammatical point.
Mr. Bailey: I do occasionally.
Mayor Suarez: That's going to do something for our record.
Mr. Bailey: However, the scoring went as follows: There's fifty points for
previous professional experience, thirty points for capability and size of —
team. In terms of location of office, there's only ten points allowed for
that and minority...
Mayor Suarez: So it was concluded that neither of the two principal or
closest to number one ranking or competitors, however you characterize that,
was in fact a local, under our ordinance contractor. Right? Both were Dade
County, but not Miami. Is that it? -
Mr. Bailey: One is in Dade County and one is outside of Dade County...
Mayor Suarez: And the other one is outside of Dade. -
Mr. Bailey: ... and we took all of that into consideration. Each member of
the committee scored it in accordance with that characteristic and even taking
that into consideration, the ranking came out as it is today. Which is
exactly, as I understand it, as it was the first time.
' Mr. Virgilio Perez: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: From the... well, go ahead and state who you represent,
Virgilio.
Mr. Perez: Yes, my naii:a is Virgilio Perez, office is at 1401 West Flagler. I
represent Bellon & Taylor who was ranked number two in this second round. We
are here...
Mayor Suarez: Is that the same ranking you had the first time around?
Mr. Perez: Yes, Mr. Mayor. It was the same ranking we had the first time on
the selection committee. The problem is that we really feel and we were very
happy when we heard Commissioner Miller mention people that come from Texas
-'' and take the people here as a token black or a token Latin and then they go
back to Texas but they don't invite them there. Our firm, Taylor & Bellon, is
black and Cuban. Black and Latin. Which fifty-one percent ownership is black
and the rest, forty-nine percent architectural, Latin.
i
Commissioner De Yurre: Excuse me. Let me ask a question, here.
j Mr. Perez: Yes, sir.
Commissioner De Yurre: Because I need to get a clarification or at least
a understanding of what we're trying to do here in the City of Miami. At the
! last meeting, if I recall, we had a report brought before us of the findings
to support our set -aside program for minorities, black, Hispanics, and if I
recall that test was a Countywide test,...
105 January 23, 1992
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Commissioner Plummer: I don't think that report did that.
Commissioner De Yurre: ... the sampling was County wide and the basis of
support for our position of set -aside, was that because we have had this set -
aside, minorities are in a lot better position than they were before we had
this set -aside process. If set -asides are meant to give an advantage or to -
give an opportunity to those that haven't had it before, in our community, _
within our sample, within Dade County, Greater Miami, then how can we have, in
this case a black set -aside and defeat that whole purpose of the set -aside
process by giving it, even though it's a black, but a black firm that is not
from our community. It becomes a black set -aside that doesn't benefit those
that it has been designed to help out. And 1 have a severe problem, just
because an individual...
Commissioner Plummer: Don't you have to bid it as a set -aside to be a set -
aside?
Commissioner De Yurre: ... is of a particular minority, that they can come
from outside our area and take a job that is meant for those that are of the
same origin, same background, but that live within our area. This could stand
for areas wherein there are not set -asides in communities where these people -
come from because they are not discriminated and haven't been discriminated in the past. And yet they come take advantage of an area where there has been
that problem and we try to remedy it and they're trying to get into that
situation and it defeats the whole purpose of aiding those that we're trying
to help within our own community. And I have a problem with that.
Mr. Perez: Mr. Mayor. If I... _�
Mayor Suarez: Let me just restate for the record. I think I finally -
clarified in my mind what actually took place here vis-a-vis the issue of
local presence. What I think happened is that, first of all, that ordinance
only applies to sealed bid quantitative type competition. So that's the first
thing that happened on that. Secondly, it only applies to City of Miami
versus non -City of Miami and neither one of these is City of Miami. The issue
kind of becomes then did the fact that any sort of misstatement by the
competing group disqualify them or make them non -responsive or otherwise non -
responsible, I guess is the better term, bidders in any way and I guess you've
- j said that it did not. I mean, that they didn't misstate anything or didn't
i lack any licenses, permits, etcetera that they needed, qualifications. And so
;i the arguments that Commissioner De Yurre is making, which I think are
compelling but to me, at least, Commissioner, they more argue for prospective
changes than anything that we could do about this particular matter. As much
i as we would love to give a very special support to a clearly local firm and
i yours is clearly local in the broader sense of the word. We just don't have
anything our ordinance that gives a strong mathematical quantitative
{4 preference as we do for the City of Miami ones in regular public sealed bid
awards, which I think is five or ten percent, I always forget.
Commissioner Plummer: Ten.
Unidentified Speaker: Ten.
106 January 23, 1992
C
Mayor Suarez: Ten.
Commissioner De Yurre:
minorities?
Can we specify in the bid process it has to be local
Mr. Bailey: If you'd like to have future legislation directing us to do that,
Commissioner, we'd be happy to do that.
Commissioner De Yurre: But doesn't that make sense? What's the whole purpose
of having a set -aside...
Mayor Suarez: And as we do that, as you design that, you've got to keep in
mind the other statements made by Commissioner Dawkins that are of concern to
all us which is that we define once again, tackle the tough issue of what
becomes a "rent -a -citizen," what is in fact a valid joint venture that has,
you know, a real stake in the outcome of a particular contract, etcetera, and
none of that is easy to define. I know we've struggled with it and we have
some norms for it in our various ordinances.
Mr. Perez: Mr. Mayor, if I may present when...
Mayor Suarez: Yes, go ahead and complete your presentation.
Mr. Perez: ... we were here last time on January 9th, the City Commission
said that this item will be taken after lunch because we questioned, we raised
the issue that there was no occupational license or certificate of use
whatsoever. What happened is, I have a memorandum here of Mr. Ventura which
is Deputy Director and Chief Building official to Mr. Sergio Rodriguez,
Director, which states that the certificate of use for both Mr. Suarez and
Thaddeus Cohen was taken out January 9th.
Mayor Suarez: When was the last session of the Commission?
Unidentified Speaker: January 9th.
Mayor Suarez: The very day of our...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: ... Commission meeting. Well,...
Mr. Thaddeus Cohen: I would just like to say for the record...
Mayor Suarez: yes, sir.
Mr. Bailey: ... that we're talking about only ten of the one hundred points
in regards to what you're looking at and even in the number one team, the one
that was selected by the committee, they only got the ten points and less than
ten points for not... they were penalized for not being from Miami.
4
Mayor Suarez: What is that ten...
Mr. Bailey: That has already been accounted for.
107 January 23, 1992
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Mayor Suarez: ... what is that ten points norm called? What is it? A local
presence.
Mr. Bailey: It's location of office. It says location of offices. And if
you have an office...
Mayor Suarez: Is it that vague? I mean, we...
Mr. Bailey: It just says location of office.
Mayor Suarez: Location of office.
Mr. Bailey: That's what the RFP calls for in that particular category
which...
Mayor Suarez: But we infer from that, that we mean...
Commissioner Plummer: With memory zippers.
Mr. Perez: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: There he goes with the zippers again.
Mr. Perez: Mr. Mayor, we're not discussing that. We believe that we are here
under rules and orders and the City of Miami, as you well know as Mayor of the
City. We believe that your Chapter 31 represents a code of the City Miami,
requests of people to have a certificate of use and here we specifically said
that they didn't have a certificate of use. At lunch time, they went... and
the Administration said that they did have a certificate of use. They didn't
say that they picked it up that day. Now there's another issue. They don't
have right now an occupational license. I met this morning with Mr. Gary
Houck, which is your Assistant Director, at 9:00 and the day, on the 17th, he
received a call to send somebody, an inspector, to that address to get an
occupational license. He can't remember who did, but the occupational license
is not paid, sir. Now, I'm wondering...
Mayor Suarez: OK. Why is it...
Mr. Odio: Well, I need to clarify something because I...
Mayor Suarez: I heard...
Mr. Odio: Herb was telling me that they took all the points off for not being
a local company. They did not consider them a local company.
Mayor Suarez: The fact that they don't have an occupational license at that
particular address is not a disqualifying factor. Is that what you're saying?
Mr. Odio: No, because we're treated as an outside company.
Mr. Bailey: No, we already said they were not in the City of Miami, so they
wouldn't have an occupational license. We've already accounted for all of
that.
108 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: So, it's good enough that they may have an occupational license
at another address. Which other address are they going to have the
occupational license here then?
Mr. Bailey: The principal offices.
Mayor Suarez: Which is?
Commissioner Plummer: Fort Liquordale.
Mr. Bailey: Delray Beach.
Mayor Suarez: That's the one that's not even in Dade County?
Mr. Bailey: Right.
Mayor Suarez: As opposed to your team which is clearly Dade County in almost
all respects.
Mr. Bailey: We are bound by what we advertised and we've taken all that into
consideration. In the RFP,....
Mayor Suarez: How many points did the two, just out of curiosity, the two of
these companies get for the location item that you said, which has a certain
amount of subjectivity, but I realize that there's ten points, potential...
Mr. Bailey: They both lost points. They get ten points...
Mayor Suarez: You can only lose from ten down.
Mr. Bailey: From ten down. So, if it got...
Mayor Suarez: But how many did they get?
Mr. Bailey: They got five points for offices located in Dade County, three
points for offices located outside of Dade County.
Mayor Suarez: So one got give and the other one got three.
Mr. Bailey: The other one got three.
Mayor Suarez: So it was a net difference of two points out of a hundred.
Mr. Bailey: Two points, yes. So,...
Mayor Suarez: See that ends up being two percent as opposed to our local
preference ordinance. I mean if this was totally quantitative which is a more
rigid ten percent of the bid price. That may be part of the problem here.
Maybe they didn't get penalized enough or...
Mr. Perez: Mr. Mayor. We don't have a problem with the selection committee.
We want you to know that we have a problem with the inequity of the
Administration...
109 January 23, 1992
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Mayor Suarez: You want to be treated well in the future by a similarly
composed selection committee, right?
Mr. Perez: ... that they came out here and they said they had an occupational
1 license, which it was not not. They right now said that they had... in their
application they put twenty two, I believe, twenty two ninety...
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor. The fact is...
Mr. Perez: ... Southwest...
Mr. Odio: ... it might be an inequity, but we have gone through this process
twice, with two different selection committees. And I...
Mayor Suarez: OK. None of the things that he's alleging to us are
misstatements or such that would make us wonder about the good faith,
reliability, veracity, etcetera of this company.
Mr. Bailey: There is a certificate of use at the address that he's talking
about, not an occupational license. He could not legally have one anyway and
he also has a building certificate of occupancy for the building but not an
occupational license. He's in Delray Beach. He would not be required to have
one here.
Mr. Perez: No, I'm talking...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! I don't think
that's a correct statement. If they are doing business in the City of Miami,
to the best of my knowledge, they have got to have an occupational license.
Mr. Bailey: He is bidding on a project. His office is stated in Delray
Beach. He has associates who are doing business in the City of Miami, who are
a part of his team like everyone else. They have members of part of their
team that are in Miami also.
Commissioner Plummer: You're telling me that if in fact they're doing
business in the City of Miami, they don't have to have an occupational
license.
Mr. Bailey: Not yet. They haven't won the bid.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, then I want you to tell me how we're collecting
three hundred and seventy-six thousand dollars through the Florida League of
Cities for insurance companies who are doing business in the City of Miami
that don't even have an office here. There's something wrong with that
statement.
Mr. Bailey: That's something I'm not involved with at this time.
Commissioner Plummer: It's my understanding, anybody doing business in the
City of Miami has to have an occupational license.
Mr. Bailey: They're not...
110 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: I have to have five.
_ Mr. Bailey: They're not doing business in the City of Miami. They haven't
i won the bid.
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, they would probably argue that a lot of the design, —
etcetera is in fact not being done in the City of Miami. It's in fact being
done in Delray.
Mr. Bailey: And the consultants are in the City of Miami. They have been
here. Each one of these teams has with them a composition of people who will
provide different professional services and they both have representatives that are in the City of Miami even though the prime contractor would be out.
Mr. Perez: But if I may interject. The consultant doesn't have an
occupational license in the City of Miami. He applied on the 17th which was
the same date that the second selection committee met and he has not paid that
license yet. -
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Is the consultant full time in the City of
Miami?
Mr. Perez: That's what he says. That's what Mr. Thaddeus Cohen said.
Commissioner Plummer: And he doesn't have an occupational license?
Mr. Perez: No, sir. Not according to Mr. Gary Houck, Assistant Director of
Finance, this morning at 9:15.
Mr. Bailey: I will state our position again and the committee. In terms of
location...
Commissioner Plummer: I'm not arguing that point.
Mr. Bailey: ... the number of points were given and consideration was taken.
There are ninety other points and even if with subtracting and only giving
them three for location, nine out of the ten people voted the team that you
have as number one.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's right, Herb, but the problem is in the first
package, the first time that this was addressed at this last Commission
meeting, this company was presented to us as a local company...
Mr. Bailey: No, ma'am.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, yes!
Mr. Bailey: We did not do that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Get me copies of the package.
Mr. Bailey: We did not do that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: May I see the package of the first...
111 January 23, 1992
Mr. Bailey: Yes. We will show it to you. And we showed you the address from _
Delray Beach and everything.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, may I see it? Because I have recollection that it
was presented to us, I do recall that I asked on the record the address of the
company, because I had called the company and then instead of getting a local
number, I got a number outside Dade County.
Mr. Bailey: It was a transferred number...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then I was very disturbed. And I said do they exist or —
don't they? Then we sent someone over to the building and in fact they were
not there. It was just an address.
Mr. Bailey: Commissioner.
Vice Mayor Alonso: What about this address? 2990 Southwest 35 Avenue. _
Mr. Bailey: That is the address of the structural engineer which was said on the record at the time that he is permitted to use space there from time to
time because he uses that structural engineer for all of his work.
Vice Mayor Alonso: It's very deceiving to me...
Mr. Bailey: Well, now he never...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... that when a package was presented to me with a local
address...
Mr. Bailey: Commissioner, I don't want to argue...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... I got the impression and, as a matter of fact, when I
asked I was told it was... May I see copies of the package that I received in
the last Commission meeting, please?
Mr. Bailey: It's the same as you have now, Commissioner.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No. No way. It's not. I want to see the package that I
received... Will my staff get that for me, please? I'd like to see that.
Mr. Bailey: It was never presented as a local company. The testimony...
Vice Mayor Alonso: I don't like to be told one thing and then change it. If
they are not local vendors, fine, say so. If they reside in Miami, fine. For
my vote, they have to be here. If not,...
Mr. Bailey: Commissioner, we never did present this as a local company. The
record will speak for itself. We can pull the tapes, the transcript and
whatever else. It was pointed out very clearly by the consultant who stood
here and testified...
Vice Mayor Alonso: You don't have any recollection of what I'm talking about?
4
112 January 23, 1992
Mr. Bailey: I have a very good recollection of what you're talking about. I
think the discussion was between the second place bidder and the first place
bidder with accusations going back and forth. My staff has never indicated to
_ this Commission that they were local companies. In fact we said neither one
is a local company.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, when you see an address that is located at 29th
Street, 35 Avenue...
Mr. Ba11ey: We11, they all gave us a...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... it comes to mind that it's a local company.
Mr. Bailey: ... well, the composition of the team...
Mayor Suarez: What did they... Let's dwell on that for a second, Herb. What
did they expect to accomplish by that address? We don't understand. If none
of that has any validity...
Vice Mayor Alonso: To make us believe that they are local.
Mr. Bailey: It does have...
Mayor Suarez: ... with our local office criterion, what did they expect to
accomplish by giving that address?
Mr. Bailey: As a composition of the team. Each one of these proposers have a
number of people on their team that do various parts of this project. The
structural engineer of which Mr. Cohen is an associate with, in Miami, this is
the address of the structural engineer. We have given you the address of all
of the components of the team.
Mr. Perez: Why did he get a certificate of occupancy? Why did he go and get
it?
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait.
Mr. Bailey: that is not a consideration, sir. You may bring that up as many
times as you like, but that is not a consideration for what we advertised and
for what we are doing here.
Mr. Perez: Oh, he said it right here in front of you. Right there.
Mayor Suarez: Who was it that was missing the certificate of occupancy, or
use, rather?
Mr. Bailey: I understand what he said. That's not a consideration.
Mr. Perez: Excuse me. Thaddeus Cohen... Certificate of use. He went to get
a certificate of use on January 9th.
Mayor Suarez: But who was it that you were... Not the entity that was
actually located at that address which now I am told was actually an engineer,
right?
113 January 23, 1992
i
-r`MAIL
Mr. Perez: Yes, he...
Mayor Suarez: With the glorious name of Suarez.
Mr. Bailey: Structural engineer, Mario A. Suarez.
Mr. Perez: Mario Suarez. He went to get a...
Mayor Suarez: But you're now saying that that individual did not have a
certificate... I'm sorry that Thaddeus Cohen as a what? He's a contractor or
an architect?
Mr. Perez: He's an engineer, I believe.
Mr. Bailey: He's a structural engineer. They all have structural engineers
as part of the package.
Mayor Suarez: No, Thaddeus Cohen.
Mr. Bailey: Thaddeus Cohen is an architect. He's...
Mayor Suarez: As an architect, did not have a certificate of use at that
address. Now the only question then, apparently in this sort of Byzantine
process is...
�! Mr. Bailey: He does have a certificate of use at that address. I think
the...
Mayor Suarez: Does that in any way disqualify Thaddeus Cohen from using that
address? Does that mean that we were in any way misled by the use of that
address? Because you're saying, Herb, that the fact that he has an engineer,
consultant, co -venture, whatever we call them, there is sufficient, although
they later went out apparently and did get a...
Mr. Bailey: Certificate...
I Mayor Suarez: Actually, I guess Mario Suarez himself did not have a
certificate of use on... up until January 9th according to this and then
i` Thaddeus Cohen also got himself a certificate of use on January 9, our last
Commission meeting while he was at it, so everybody's got a certificate of use
there. So our certificate of use department is certainly deriving some fees
anyhow out of all of this.
Mr. Bailey: That usually happens, Mr. Mayor, when we have out...
Mayor Suarez: Although you're saying none of that is particularly relevant.
Mr. Bailey: ... when we have out-of-town bidders and we have had many out-of-
town bidders that this Commission has selected who complied once they have
become active in doing business in the City of Miami and for the City of
Miami ...
}
`f 114 January 23, 1992
M t
Mayor Suarez: But that's what we've done in other cases where apparently you
have to comply with something, but that's not what you're telling us here.
You're telling us here that there's nothing for them to comply and that they
were simply treated as a Delray Beach applicant.
Mr. Bailey: As a...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Were they?
Mayor Suarez: Which happens to a co -venturer architect, I'm sorry
engineer,...
Mr. Bailey: That's right.
Mayor Suarez: ... clearly 1n the City of Miami.
Mr. Bailey: That was not one of the requirements of the proposal. The
requirements for the black set -aside as we have...
Mayor Suarez: So why did they then give this address in the City of Miami as
if it was somehow a place that they were doing business in when it really
wasn't?
' Mr. Bailey: They do business with this gentleman all the time.
j.
Mayor Suarez: Well, hell, if I could list everybody I do business with as if
I did business there, then, you know, I'd do business with all kinds of law
firms throughout the nation and all the mayors of all the cities, you know.
Mr. Bailey: He's a subcontractor. He's a subcontractor. That's not unusual.
Mayor Suarez: And I y guess they wouldn't consider themselves subcontractors of
:F Miami if I was doing business with other mayors, I guess.
Mr. Bailey: This happens almost in every bid that we put together, we have
these composites of experiences that come together to bid on the type of the
activity that we want. Not one of the firms had the capability within
themselves.
`-�
Mayor Suarez: We've argued this one, I think. Unless any Commissioners have
any other questions. It's a tough policy decision, I suppose. There's not
much discretion is what you're telling us. Commissioners.
Commissioner Plummer: May I inquire?
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner Plummer.
Commissioner Plummer: Is it not a fact what we're actually doing is
establishing which firms shall be A, B and C to deal with the Manager?
Mr. Bailey: We have given you the choices. We have ranked them as number
one, two, three and four. You have to make a decision based on...
115 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: But all we're doing is ranking them so that the
Manager...
Mr. Bailey: No, you're making the selection.
Commissioner Plummer: ... will know who to deal with. A who to deal with, B
who to deal with and who to deal with C. Is that correct?
Mr. Bailey: That is correct and we come back to you.
Commissioner Plummer: Is it your statement on the record that, in your
opinion, all firms are qualified?
Mr. Bailey: Are qualified... We qualified all four firms and we ranked them
on the basis of best qualified, next best qualified, qualified, and not so
qualified. If you want to put it in simple language.
Commissioner Plummer: But all firms, in your opinion, are qualified?
Mr. Bailey: Are qualified.
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you.
Mr. Bailey: They were all passed... certification.
-'�
Vice Mayor Alonso: Herb, one final question. If in fact we give ten percent
if they are a local company...
Mr. Bailey: Ten points.
P
Vice Mayor Alonso: Ten points.
Mr. Bailey: Yes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: And this company was presented to us with a local address.
Why didn't you give them ten points?
_
Mr. Bailey: They are not a local company. We knew that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: How did you know this?
Mr. Bailey: Because this proposal has the address on it. And he said that on
the record last time. He never made any points about him being a City of
Miami company. He is in Delray Beach. His address, his letterhead and
everything about the company says Delray Beach. They only ever mentioned the
fact that he does have an affiliate in Miami that he uses as a structural
engineer which is a composite of his team and he gave that address of that
engineer because from time to time he is here.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Maybe I'm wrong, but my recollection of the last
- i
Commission meeting when I asked if they were a local company, his answer to me
4
was yes.
j
116 January 23, 1992
w s�
Mr. Bailey: No, he didn't say... he said we have a local affiliate. I
remember that very clearly.
Vice Mayor Alonso: If he didn't, why in the world would I request my staff to
make phone calls and everything?
Mr. Bailey: I'm sorry, Commissioner.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I did ask my staff at that time to call the company and
then we were able to identify that they were not a local company, but why
should I do that when in fact he had told me that he was not a local company?
Mr. Bailey: I think that happened...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Somehow my recollection is not that.
Mr. Bailey: I think that conversation, Commissioner, as I recall it, and your
making a phone call took place before this presentation was made before the
Commission. I don't know how you did that. Only you may know that, but it
was made very clear on the record, by the architect himself, by our staff. It
was never presented to us or anyone else that these firms, neither one, is a
local company.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You knew. You knew it was not.
Mr. Bailey: Of course we know. That's why we took the points off.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK.
Mayor Suarez: One observation, Mr. Manager. And please, I am not seeking a
reply on this one. I just want to give you an observation and a critique. Of
course the whole process, as Commissioner Plummer was just saying, really begs
for reform. I, for some reason, get the feeling that the Administration has a
particular stake in its presentation with one of the two sides or the other.
I don't see them... I see them jumping to the mike and the noes and the yeses
as if they have a particular stake with one or the other. I know that doesn't
mean that they have stake in any kind of the fairer sense, but I get the
feeling that they were not as troubled as we are by the placement of this
address and all of these later obtaining of certificates of occupancy,
occupational licenses, etcetera, what appears to be not entirely the correct
depiction of where they're located. I suggest to you that as we reform the
system, we make that a much more absolute and much more objective criterion so
that we don't have this thing where, you know, we're pitting our staff against
the group that was selected. Second, we have Commissioners having to check
occupational license, certificate of uses. To me, on its face, it looks like
the group that is rated number one, twice rated number one, was trying to say
that they are in a particular location where they are in fact not. And where
they're missing a variety of regulatory requirements that maybe they should
have. That troubles me. But I, personally, don't see any way around the
recommendation. Anyone else? And we can move on to the next item.
Commissioner De Yurre: Yes, sir.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
117
January 23, 1992
Commissioner De Yurre: Again, going back to this set -aside process. How many
points were awarded to each of these companies for being local or not local?
Mr. Bailey: For being what, Commissioner?
Commissioner De Yurre: Local or not local.
Mr. Bailey: There is a ten point system for being... location of the office,
period. If they are local, it is ten. If you're in Dade County, you get
five. If you're outside of Dade County, you get three.
Commissioner De Yurre: Why get three...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Why do you get three?
Commissioner De Yurre: as opposed to zero?
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's a good point.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't ever recall that being in an ordinance.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's a good point. Zero.
Mr. Bailey: It's in the RFP.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. No, no. Who gave you... Excuse me, Herb,
don't take this personally. Who gave you the right to establish something
_ that this Commission did not establish? To my knowledge, we have only ever
established by ordinance, ten percent for local companies. Where does it come
about... whose idea was five percent in the County and three percent out of
the County? I never heard that before.
Mr. Bailey: And I forgot one other location... received one...
Commissioner...
Commissioner Plummer: No, no. I'm asking...
Mr. Bailey: I'm going to answer you.
Commissioner Plummer: Who came up with this idea of five in the... Because I
want to tell you something. I wouldn't give them ten percent of a point, if
they're not City. What we tried to accomplish was City, City, City.
Mayor Suarez: That was in the other ordinance.
Mr. Bailey: If you would like to...
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but where did this five percent if you're in the
County and three percent if you're not in the County. Where did that come
from?
Mr. Bailey: If you would let me answer, I will...
118
January
23,
1992
Mayor Suarez: They had to come up with a rating system and they came up this
one. It's... there's a certain amount of discretion in it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: It should be zero.
Mr. Bailey: If you would let me answer, I will tell you.
Commissioner De Yurre: And to follow up...
Mr. Bailey: When we come... May I answer his question or should I just ignore
it?
Commissioner De Yurre: Go ahead and answer it.
Commissioner Plummer: Thanks.
Commissioner De Yurre: Answer it.
Mr. Bailey: OK. When we go out for requests for proposal, we come before
this Commission with the resolution and we also come back with the request for
proposal. All of the details as to how we're going to rank and evaluate the
respondents are in the request for proposal. It's here. It was approved by
this Commission as presented by the Administration. Now we know that you
don't read all of the stuff in the proposal. However, we assume that when
you... we through the public hearing and the public is invited to respond to
proposals that we submit, and those points at the time that seems to be
unacceptable to the Commission or to the public are then discussed and we make
the change. In the absence of any directions to make a change, we assume that
what we have presented, the Administration has presented, is acceptable and
that's what we advertise. Once we advertise it, that's what we're bound by.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Bailey.
Mr. Bailey: That we may change anything in the future you like.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Bailey. This Commission set a policy. If you
think for one minute, this is the Orange Bowl, that I am going to sit down
with this document when you present it as an RFP, (request for proposals) I'm
assuming, sir, that you are presenting this document predicated on policies
set by this Commission.
Mr. Bailey: Well, we have. There is nothing in here that's against the
Commission policy.
Commissioner Plummer: And if you deviate from that policy, that you would
make it so known to us.
Mr. Bailey: We would.
Commissioner Plummer: Now, I'm not going to sit there... I'll be honest with
you and I'm not going to lie to anybody and I don't think any Commissioner in
this particular RFP sat and read every page of an RFP.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's why we have professionals.
ij
3
119 January 23, 1992
}
Commissioner Plummer: I'm saying to you, Mr. Bailey, that I will expect from
you, sir - the Administration in total - that any time an RFP contains
something different than the policy set by this Commission, that we be so
informed.
Mr. Bailey: This does not...
Commissioner Plummer: The only policy that I know that exists is a ten
percent leverage for City -owned and operated businesses. Excuse me?
Mr. Odio: I think we need to...
Commissioner Plummer: I don't know anything.
Mr. Odio: You know what we need to do?
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, I don't know a thing about this five
percent and three percent.
Mr. Odio: I think you're right. I think that we need to clarify what the
policies are because on the ten percent you're talking about, as I understand
it, is in dollars. If one bid is five dollars and the other one is, even if
it's ten percent higher, you give it to the local...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, even if it's points, OK. I'm saying they
gave points rather than dollars and I don't disagree with that.
Mr. Bailey: Well, Commissioner...
Commissioner Plummer: What I'm saying to you, sir, is that you can't expect
me, this is one of maybe twenty items before this Commission, to sit down and
digest each and every point.
Mr. Bailey: Commissioner, I think that's what I said in my deliberation. We
don't expect you to sit and read thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred page RFP.
Commissioner Plummer: Over two hundred.
Mr. Bailey: Well, that's Orange Bowl and ours is probably not that much
smaller, but what I'm saying is that we have not put anything in an RFP, to my
knowledge as the Administration, anything that is not in accordance with
Commission policy. We do from time to time, as Administrators, make
recommendations and this is why we come back to have public hearings. And we
go over every one of these items from time to time. This is not the first
time this has happened. In fact, if you look at the Orange Bowl evaluation,
you'll see the same points. So, it's not something that's new and we just
created for this particular proposal. If you would like to have some changes
In the future, then we would be glad to do that. And we do not have any
proprietary interest in either one of the proposal. We're just defending the
integrity of the committee and the process which you have given us to go by.
That's the only reason we have...
120 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: And I find no fault with that, sir. I don't
necessarily agree with it, but I don't find fault.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, and we really can't find fault with that. It's the
criteria by which you set this whole thing up and the guidelines we have given
you which allowed it to happen that troubles us and we...
Vice Mayor Alonso: What we will need is an auditor to report directly to us
rather than to the Administration and inform us on items like this before the
Commission meeting, meaning...
Mayor Suarez: That's like the Federal system in the General Accounting
Office.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, reporting to us, not to the Administration. That
way, we will be saved the embarrassment of what we have gone through today.
And that person will report to this Commission rather than to the
Administration.
Mayor Suarez: That's very similar to the General Accounting Office in the
Congress.
Vice Mayor Alonso: This is the only way that we will have check and balance.
A true form. We will have our own way of checking and then the Administration
will have what they present to us. I think this will be the answer.
Mayor Suarez: I will say this. At five thousand dollars a year, the amount
of technical proficiency that we're expected to have to be able to come up
with our independent judgment in some of these cases, there's no way we can do
it. There's no way we can do it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: It's ridiculous. So if this person reports to us
directly...
Mayor Suarez: Unless we're independently wealthy, like J. L.
Mr. Bailey: The system that we are using, Commissioner, is one that's been in
place for quite some time.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, but they don't report to us. Auditors report to the
Manager. Not to us.
Mr. Bailey: Oh, that's a form of government. I won't get into that
discussion.
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, don't touch that one.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm sure that we can look into
this legally and that person...
Mayor Suarez: I think we can. I think we can.
121 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... will be able to report to us. And I think it's going
to be very healthy and I think something that we are lacking...
Mayor Suarez: I think we definitely can look into it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... and that will be the answer to the problem.
Commissioner Plummer: You know what the answer is? The answer is on two
items today we have spent three and a half hours. We can't continue to do
business this way.
Mayor Suarez: And part of it, in fairness, is that we're attempting to delve
into things, as you have requested us to as a protest group. We're attempting
to undo a process that came up with a lot more money in one item or sub -item
in a bid. I mean, it all has sort of moral weight, but it's just not the way
we can continue to proceed. We've got too many items and we don't have the
technical proficiency.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor, well, but that's the problem. It is our
i
responsibility. And regardless of the amount of time...
Mayor Suarez: I think ultimately it is. I think ultimately it is.
Vice i Mayor Alonso: ... y we are the ones responsible and then the
Administration is supposed to provide to us with this. We have seen today
that we are put in a very embarrassing situation. It is our responsibility to
the taxpayers. We have to address the issue. We did. It took hours.
Regardless of the amount of time, it is our responsibility. I think the
answer is the auditors will respond to us directly.
Mayor Suarez: You want to get a legal opinion on that?
Vice Mayor Alonso:
And that person will
come to us.
Mayor Suarez: How
to implement that?
And then, of course, we're going to
need an estimate of
what the cost might
be, but I think...
Vice Mayor Alonso:
I think we should
instruct the Legal Department to look
into this.
Mayor Suarez: I think
we ought to get
a report on that. I'd like to see it
and I'm sure you would since you're proposing
it.
i
Vice Mayor Alonso:
Yes.
Mayor Suarez: And
I agree with that.
I would like to see that, Counselor.
If we can get that.
'
t;
Mr. Perez: Mr. Mayor. Just to close up
whatever we were saying.
t
Mayor Suarez: Yeah,
this is definitely
the close.
Mr. Perez: Right.
To close up is that we don't have any problem with the
—'
selection committee
or whatever itself,
the findings...
122 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: You have no problem with this selection committee, or any
future selection committees?
Mr. Perez: The only problems that we have a problem is that the City of Miami
is permitting somebody to do business in the City of Miami when the Charter of
the City of Miami specifically prohibits itself to do that. Because...
Mayor Suarez: Where is that? Where is that? You made a reference to that
before and I...
Commissioner Plummer: Occupational license.
Mr. Perez: The occupational license that Commissioner Plummer just made. If
we're going to go against the Charter, let us know.
Mayor Suarez: Well, wait. Wait, wait. There's a problem there because, for
example, we do buy things and we do procurements sometimes with the companies
that are outside the City.
Mr. Perez: I'm not talking about somebody that's outside the City who has a
certificate of use and occupational license. We have here a specific engineer
saying that he has a certificate of use in the City of Miami. He's been
through the process of a selection committee and he does not comply with the
Charter of the City of Miami of having an occupational license. He goes and
he pull this on the 7th...
Mayor Suarez: We're not talking about Mr. Suarez.
Mr. Perez: No. Yes, we're talking about Mr. Suarez specifically.
Mayor Suarez: He doesn't have any occupational license?
Mr. Perez: No, he does not have. That's...
Mayor Suarez: He still doesn't have it?
Mr. Perez: He doesn't have...
Mayor Suarez: He's the engineer on this bidding group?
Mr. Perez: That is correct. That is the famous man who Mr. Cohen says he is
associated with. He doesn't have an occupational license.
Mayor Suarez: I didn't understand all of that. I thought he had all his
legal requisites to at least function as a consultant or a co -venturer or
whatever he is. Are we satisfied that this individual has an occupational
license? That he can function out of 2290 whatever the address is? Or
somewhere else?
Mr. Bailey: We're satisfied. We have two selection processes. Certification
and selection.
— ' 123 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: No, no, Herb. I'm not even asking about any of that. If I
can't get an answer from you, a straight answer from you, I'll ask the
Manager. In fact, let me ask the Manager right now. Mr. Manager, are you
satisfied that Mario Suarez, first of all is a part of this bidding group?
Mr. Odio: He is.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Secondly, are you satisfied that Mario Suarez is an
engineer duly licensed to practice in the address that he represents here as
being his office of practice which is 2990 Southwest 35th Avenue, as an
engineer?
Mr. Odio: That is an engineer, yes.
Mayor Suarez: OK. You're satisfied that he has an occupation license...
I
Mr. Odio: No.
Mayor Suarez: ... which would bring him under...
Mr. Odio: I don't know. I don't know if he... I haven't...
Mayor Suarez: All right. Can we get an answer on that?
Mr. Perez: Mr. Mayor, I...
Mayor Suarez: No, no, no. Not from you, please. We've heard enough now from
the protesting group or the second selection, Virgilio. We need to know from
the City.
Mr. Odio: I'll have to check with Gary Houck.
Mayor Suarez: Well, I will propose that we table this item until we get an
- answer on that question. I'm not ready to vote until I know that.
Mr. Odio: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: Do it in reverse.
Commissioner De Yurre: Well, Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Suarez: Yeah.
Unidentified Speaker: Cesar, he doesn't have a license.
Mr. Odio: He does not.
Mr. Bailey: It's not a part of...
Commissioner De Yurre: ... I think it be irrelevant whether they have an
occupational license or not...
Mr. Odio: He does not have a license.
124
January 23, 1992
Commissioner De Yurre: if we deem them not be local.
-i Mr. Odio: He does not have an occupational license. _
Mr. Bailey: It doesn't matter.
i
-' Mr. Odio: He does not have an occupational license.
Commissioner De Yurre: You know what I mean? I mean, if we deem them...
Mayor Suarez: All right. Now let's hear that argument. Are you saying that
even though he lists this address and he doesn't have an occupational license
there, as long as has an occupational license somewhere else where presumably
he's going to do his design, that's OK? Is that what you're saying?
Commissioner De Yurre: Well, what I'm saying is my, and I want to get Mr.
City Attorney. This is only a recommendation that has been brought before us.
Legally, we can pick any one we want that has been presented as qualified as
the number one group for the Administration to negotiate with. Is that
correct?
Mr. Jones: No, that's incorrect.
Commissioner De Yurre: What is the procedure?
Mr. Jones: You have to accept the rank order that's been recommended to you
by the selection committee. And your alternative if you decide not to, then
you have to go through one of the three alternatives that were mentioned to
you when you went through this process again.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask this question. Mr. City Attorney, does not
a company doing business in the City of Miami have to have an occupational
license?
Mr. Jones: Yeah, I would assume so, Mr. Plummer.
Commissioner Plummer: If, in fact, that company as so stated on the record by
the Finance Department and the Manager, does not have an occupational license,
is he a qualified bidder to do business in the City of Miami?
Mr. Jones: I think that what you have to look at and what is controlling is
what the RFP required. The requirements of the RFP.
Commissioner Plummer: No, sir. Forget about the RFP. If in fact the Charter
says that everybody doing business in the City of Miami shall have
occupational license, and he does not have one, is he a qualified bidder?
That's the question. Forget about the RFP.
Mr. Jones: I understand your question, but I'm also telling you in terms of
what's before you, what's controlling is what the RFP required. If the RFP
required...
Commissioner Plummer: In other words, what you're saying is the RFP
supersedes the Charter by virtue of...
125 January 23, 1992
Mr. Jones: No, I'm not saying that the RFP supersedes the Charter. Any
responsive bidder would only be governed by what you advertise in your RFP.
That's the controlling factors that you'd have to be concerned with.
Commissioner Plummer: Even though the Charter says if you do business in the
City of Miami you shall have an occupational license.
Mr. Jones: Notwithstanding. If the RFP says that the bidder must comply with
all applicable state, county laws, whatever, that's one thing. But you cannot
expect the...
Commissioner Plummer: That's the point I'm trying to make. If he doesn't
comply, he's not a qualified bidder.
Mr. Jones: Well, I don't know whether that's what the RFP requested.
Commissioner Plummer: I pay you to find that out, sir.
Mr. Bailey: We don't... I don't think we put that in any RFP for bids. We
got all our professional licenses and that has been certified by the
certifying committee. To do business in the City of Miami for... as an
occupational license. You've got me confused now. Occupational license is
just a matter of going down to apply for one.
Mayor Suarez: Where does this gentleman have an occupational license, if we
= know?
Commissioner Plummer: You know, Herb, that's not what bothers me. That's
catching the devil and making him cover up for what he hasn't been doing in
the past.
Mr. Bailey: Most of the people who bid on our projects do the same thing,
Commissioner. The majority of the people who bid...
Commissioner Plummer: In other words, don't take out a license until you get
caught.
Mr. Bailey: Well, no. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the prime contractor has
a license to do business where he indicated he was from.
Mayor Suarez: Do we know if he has an occupational license anywhere in South
Florida, or close to here?
is
Mr. Bailey: He has passed all of the certifications.
Mayor Suarez: No, no. Occupational license, which is totally different from
certifications.
-4 Mr. Bailey: In Delray Beach. We were not required to check that out.
Mayor Suarez: No, no. I'm just wondering if we happen to know. All right,
Commissioners, what's your...
126 January 23, 1992
.0-
Mr. Bailey: He has been in business since 1986. And that's another point
I'd...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor. From what we're being told by the City
Attorney, we have two choices. We either accept the recommendations or throw
them out.
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Mr. Jones: Let me just say...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. City Attorney, is that a correct statement? Is
there a third alternative?
Mr. Jones: You have three alternatives.
Mayor Suarez: Well the third alternative... one of them is what we did last
time.
Mr. Jones: Which is what you've just gone through. But let me just clarify
something for you, because the RFP... I'm looking at page 6...
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, I asked a question. May I get an answer to my
question? Is there another alternative?
Mr. Jones: Mr. Plummer, I mentioned to you before. You have three
alternatives. I'll repeat them as I repeated them before.
Commissioner Plummer: Please.
Mr. Jones: Form a new... If you don't select them in the rank order that's
been recommended by the selection committee, you do one of three things. One,
you form a new competitive selection committee from amongst yourselves or you
appoint a new competitive selection committee or you authorize the City
Manager to appoint a new competitive selection committee.
Mayor Suarez: That's what we did last Commission here.
Mr. Jones: And that is what you did the last...
Commissioner Plummer: Or is not there a fourth alternative to throw them
out...
Mayor Suarez: No, those are all one. Those are all one.
`$ Commissioner Plummer: ... to throw them all out and start from scratch. Is
that not also an alternative?
3
Mayor Suarez: OK. What are the other alternatives, Mr. City Attorney?
i�
Commissioner Plummer: Is that...
Mr. Jones: Bear with me one second.
127 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: You know that lawyers are dangerous when they say that.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, that's one of the alternatives. The fourth alternative in a
catch all. If you want to throw them all out and start all over again, you
know, that's within your prerogative.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, OK. You told me there was on three and there is
a fourth.
Mr. Jones: Well, there's three under... listed here in the code, but
ultimately, included in the language with an RFP there is language that's
included in every RFP that it's the Commission's prerogative to reject all or
any part of any RFP.
Mayor Suarez: All right, Commissioners. Somebody lost an earring. That's
very important. That's another option.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's another good one.
Mayor Suarez: To return to the earring to the losing bidder.
Commissioner Plummer: All right. It's Ann Sterling's.
Mayor Suarez: Your assistant, Herb.
Mr. Bailey: I'm sorry. Oh, it's yours.
Mayor Suarez: You all get your qualifications straight, now, as far as
earrings and everything else.
Commissioner Plummer: No, Ann lost one also.
Mayor Suarez: Occupational licenses, dress codes. All right, Commissioners,
do you want to bite into this one?
Commissioner Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, you know, from what I'm being told by
the City Attorney, really and truthfully, is that we either do what was
recommended or we throw out. The others, to me, are hogwash.
Commissioner De Yurre: What do you want to do?
Commissioner Plummer: And, you know, I've got to say this for the record.
All of this really is somewhat for naught, because the Manager is charged with
the responsibility of negotiating to get the best firm qualified at the best
price. And I feel comfortable that he is going to do that regardless of who
is A, B or C.
Mayor Suarez: But he goes to the first firm and must negotiate with that one
in good faith before he can go to another one.
Commissioner Plummer: But we're being told, Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Suarez: So, don't let's complicate...
128 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. We're being told that he cannot... we do
not have the latitude to do other than what has been the recommendation of the
selection committee.
Mayor Suarez: Right. To accept the recommendation or to reject them all.
Commissioner Plummer: Or throw them out.
Mayor Suarez: Or do what we did before, which, you know...
Vice Mayor Alonso: One concern is more...
Commissioner Plummer: If it wasn't...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... delays for the swimming pool.
Mayor Suarez: I'm sorry.
Vice Mayor Alonso: More delays for the swimming pool.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: That's my problem.
Mayor Suarez: That's why we would like to hear...
Vice Mayor Alonso: I have problems with that and I know that Commissioner
Dawkins is very upset with that.
Mayor Suarez: ... from our brethren... Right. To my right and to your left.
Because he...
Vice Mayor Alonso: He left.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, let's go ahead...
Mayor Suarez: He used to be to my right.
Commissioner Plummer: ... OK. I want to tell you I've got serious problems
with the motion that I've got to make. OK? But I'm going to make a... the
alternative A is to send, as required by Charter, to the Manager the selection
committee. Remembering that that's got to come back to us for final approval.
Mayor Suarez: That's what we did before then.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's what we did before.
Commissioner Plummer: And I want to tell you...
Mayor Suarez: You want to do it again? What we just did at the last
Commission...
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no, no. I'm sending to the Manager the
recommendation of the selection committee.
129 January 23, 1992
4)
Mayor Suarez: Oh.
Commissioner Plummer: My only other alternative is to throw them all out and
have Miller rightfully scream into my ear that you're delaying my project
again.
Mayor Suarez: All right. So moved.
Commissioner Plummer: But, I'm only doing that... Fully understand what I'm
saying... That I have the last bite at the apple. And that is whatever is
negotiated has to come back to this Commission for final approval.
Commissioner De Yurre: Well, isn't that the case always? We have to give
final approval.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Huh?
Commissioner De Yurre: Isn't that the case?
Mayor Suarez: That is the case, always.
Commissioner Plummer: That's not what?
Commissioner Be Yurre: Isn't that the case always? We have to give final
approval.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. But what I'm saying is, is the fact... my only
other alternative of a motion is to throw them all out and start over again.
Commissioner Be Yurre: OK, well...
Commissioner Plummer: I don't have anything in between.
Commissioner Be Yurre: Well, then you make the motion?
Commissioner Plummer: I made a motion.
Commissioner Be Yurre: OK. I'll second.
Mayor Suarez: To accept Manager's recommendation. So moved and seconded.
Any further discussion? If not, please call the roll. Accept the Manager's
recommendation and instruct him to negotiate as per the...
Commissioner Plummer: A, B and C.
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Mr. Bailey: Yes. That's what we recommended in the package.
130 January 23, 1992
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-48
A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE FINDINGS OF THE COMPETITIVE
SELECTION COMMITTEE AS TO THE MOST QUALIFIED TEAMS, IN
RANK ORDER, TO PROVIDE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES FOR THE
DESIGN, PREPARATION OF CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS AND
CONSTRUCTION ADMINISTRATION OF AN OLYMPIC POOL COMPLEX
AT CHARLES HADLEY PARK; AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER
OR HIS DESIGNEE TO UNDERTAKE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE
MOST QUALIFIED TEAMS, IN RANK ORDER, UNTIL HE ARRIVES
AT AN AGREEMENT WHICH IS FAIR, COMPETITIVE AND
REASONABLE, AND FURTHER DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO
PRESENT THE NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT, IN A FORM ACCEPTABLE
TO THE CITY ATTORNEY, TO THE CITY COMMISSION FOR ITS
RATIFICATION AND APPROVAL.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner De Yurre, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL:
Vice Mayor Alonso: I'm not satisfied with the process. I will go along
because I don't think that we should continue to delay the process. Yes.
Mayor Suarez: Yes. Same reservations we've all expressed. Virgilio, we're
going to try to do better in the future.
Mr. Perez: Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
131 January 23, 1992
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. INSTRUCT MANAGER TO RESEARCH LEGAL RIGHTS THE CITY MAY HAVE TO GRANT —
AMERICAN-MADE PRODUCTS A 10% EDGE OVER NON-AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commissioner De Yurre: Mr. Mayor, can we get...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. May I ask of the City Attorney. Mr. City
Attorney?
Mr. Jones: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: In the same way that we have a provision in an
ordinance that gives a ten percent edge to a company city -owned and operated,
are we within our rights to, and I'll ask you to investigate this and come
back to us...
Mr. Jones: Sure.
Commissioner Plummer: ... to give a ten percent edge to American -made
products over imported products? I would ask you to please research that. I
think that it's something that should be the fact and I would ask you if it
is, to come back in the form of whatever is necessary to give that edge to
American -made products.
Mayor Suarez: Well, as you do that, too, please bring back to us an ordinance
in a situation like this that would allow us to give a clear ten percent...
Commissioner Plummer: Set aside.
Mayor Suarez: Right or ten percent preference to someone that is doing
business in the City of Miami.
Vice Mayor Alonso: But zero to the ones who are located outside.
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, as opposed to zero to the ones outside, not three and
five or something.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Of course.
Mayor Suarez: Ten percent clear preference under the subjective evaluation
and if we have to do it objectively, we can also say we simply do set asides
for local. Set asides for local like we've done for minority groups which, I
think at this particular point, have a little bit more constitutional validity
anyhow.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor. I hate to...
132 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Yes, Commissioner.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... belittle or belabor the point, but I'd like to
piggyback on what J. L. said. And I'd like for this Commission to go on
record informing the County that we think that the County should buy locally
because those of us who watch the news, we saw where they're going to buy
rapid transit trains made in Japan and when they complete this Metromover,
they're going to need some trains and we should demand that they be purchased
in the United States.
Commissioner Plummer: Strangely, did you see this morning's paper where LA
has cancelled their contract with the Japanese firm? Interesting.
Mayor Suarez: All right. We have... did you make that in the form of a
motion or you just want an ordinance back?
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, I'll make it in the form of a motion or I just
asked him to look into the legality and report back to this Commission.
Mayor Suarez: All right. That's fair enough.
17. AMEND RESOLUTION 91-886, WHICH PROVIDED FOR REFUNDING OF OUTSTANDING
PORTION OF CITY'S CERTIFICATES OF PARTICIPATION (SERIES 1986), AND
AUTHORIZED ISSUANCE OF $5,000,000 OF REFUNDING REVENUE BONDS (SERIES
1991) -- FOR THE PURPOSE OF EFFECTING CERTAIN AMENDMENTS TO IMPROVE THE
MARKETABILITY AND RATING OF THE BONDS.
Mayor Suarez: Item...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Eight.
Mayor Suarez: Eight. Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, do you recommend 8?
Mr. Odio: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: I move it.
Mayor Suarez: If at any time... I'm sorry, Mr. Manager, the Vice Mayor was
Just asking on the item that we tabled from the morning which has to do with
all these folks that have been here...
Mr. Odio: They are ready to go.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Are we ready?
Mr. Odio: If you want to hear it, they are ready to go.
Mayor Suarez: OK. Why don't we hold off on 8 for a second then, Carlos.
133 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Surely. I'll withdraw my motion.
Mayor Suarez: Oh, you had moved it already?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Mr. Odio: Yeah. Why don't...
Mayor Suarez: Does anybody have any problem with item 8,
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: ... as long as it's been moved? All right. All right, we're
going to hear you in a second, Manolo. I think this is... I guess it's public
hearing. If not, we're going to let you speak anyhow since it's after three
o'clock at least. No, we did say that we were going to try to reserve the
items for public input for the afternoon so we could move through the morning
quickly and expeditiously, which today hasn't been the case.
Commissioner Plummer: You want my motion or do you want it withdrawn?
Mayor Suarez: Motion made on 8. Do we have a second? Calling twice. Can we
get a second on item 8? I don't believe that it's particularly controversial,
is it?
Commissioner Plummer: Well, then I make the motion to deny 8.
Mr. Odio: To deny it?
Commissioner Plummer: Well, nobody wants to second it to approve. The
opposite motion is to deny.
Mr. Odio: This is just changing the...
Commissioner Dawkins: Second.
Mayor Suarez: Seconded.
Commissioner Plummer: For approval or denial?
Commissioner Dawkins: Denial.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mayor Suarez: This is a refinancing, Carlos?
Mr. Carlos Garcia: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Hey, I tried to get somebody...
134 January 23, 1992
Mr. Garcia: This resolution was approved by the City Commission on the —
December 5th meeting. We need to get this passed. We have some minor changes
requested by the rating agencies and that's the resolution that is in front of
you today. But it's been already approved by the City Commission.
Mayor Suarez: OK.
Mr. Garcia: Twice.
Mayor Suarez: You've seen, and I hate to make reference to his newspaper, but
you've seen...
- Mr. Garcia: Certainly.
Mayor Suarez: ... a series in the Herald...
Mr. Garcia: Yes, sir.
Mayor Suarez: ... about our sister jurisdiction. This is clearly a
refinancing that will result in less payments on a yearly basis and a lower
present discounted value of the entire indebtedness. Is that a fair...
Mr. Garcia: No, sir. Neither of those two. We're spreading this...
Mayor Suarez: Neither of those two?
Mr. Garcia: No, sir.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Why are we doing it?
Mayor Suarez: Oh, this is one of those...
Commissioner Plummer: You struck out on both of them.
Mayor Suarez: ... leave it to your errors type of refinancings, no?
Mr. Garcia: We are extending this debt for three years to reduce our annual
payments for this year from five million dollars to one and a half million
dollars.
Vice Mayor Alonso: And then?
Mr. Garcia: It's to help the cash flow for this particular year.
Commissioner Dawkins: You'll save nothing overall.
Mayor Suarez: And at what interest rate will the indebtedness be as...
Mr. Garcia: We don't have the final rate yet, but it should be very low. It
should be close to six percent...
Mayor Suarez: What is it now at?
Mr. Garcia: I think it's about six and a half percent at this point.
135 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: But we... So the answer is that it may be less interest then.
Mr. Garcia: The interest will be less as far as the percentage, but it will a
larger number of years in which the interest will be paid.
Mayor Suarez: So that monthly payments will be a lot less. Are they...
Mr. Garcia: Right. Certainly. —
Commissioner Plummer: But the additional extension of three years, is that
going to increase the cost, the overall cost of the bond issue?
Mr. Garcia: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: By how much?
Mr. Garcia: I would say about two hundred thousand dollars.
Commissioner Plummer: Hundred?
Mr. Garcia: Two hundred.
Mayor Suarez: Discounted to the present?
Mr. Garcia: That's in total dollars.
Vice Mayor Alonso: But the intent is to reduce the payments this year?
Mr. Garcia: This year. This particular fiscal year. Yes, ma'am.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's the idea?
Mr. Garcia: Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am.
Commissioner Plummer: All right. Instead... So we increase the amount of the
pain.
Commissioner Dawkins: Who's going to pay?
Mayor Suarez: It gives me...
Vice Mayor Alonso: They don't even have the money, so we better do it.
Mr. Garcia: That's basically... Yes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Bottom line.
Mayor Suarez: All right. I don't know that all the math of this is clarified
totally, but Mr....
Commissioner Dawkins: Let me ask one...
Mayor Suarez: Wait. Commissioner Dawkins.
136 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Dawkins: On page 5, under section 2(c), "it is no longer
necessary,to fund the reserve fund bonds given the letter of credit." What
letter of credit is going to be...
Vice Mayor Alonso: What page did he say?
Commissioner Dawkins: Page 5 (c).
Mr. Garcia: There is going to be a letter of credit behind this transaction
that it will be provided by Sun Bank.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right.
Mr. Garcia: So there will be no need for a reserve.
Commissioner Dawkins: Some bank. What bank?
Mr. Garcia: Sun...
Commissioner Dawkins: Not one of those that just went out of business.
Mr. Garcia: No, sir. Sun Bank.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right, some... Oh, Sun Bank.
Mr. Garcia: Sun Bank. Right. S-U-N.
Commissioner Dawkins: Sun Bank of Miami.
Commissioner Plummer: How much for the letter of credit?
Commissioner Dawkins: How much will the letter of credit be for?
Commissioner Plummer: Now, how much will it cost us in a premium?
Commissioner Dawkins: No, wait, how much would it be for, first, J. L. Then
how much will it cost me.
Mr. Garcia: Five million dollars.
Commissioner Dawkins: Beg your pardon?
Mr. Garcia: Five million dollars.
Commissioner Plummer: Covers the issue.
Commissioner Dawkins: Five million dollars.
Mr. Garcia: The amount of the bonds, yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: For how long?
Mr. Garcia: For three years. Four years, total.
137 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Four?
Commissioner Dawkins: This bond issue will end in four years?
Mr. Garcia: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: How much is the...
Commissioner Dawkins: I'll bet you my life, you'll be back here refinancing
it.
Mr. Garcia: No, sir. It should be repaid by then.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right. How much, as J. L. asked, what will be the
total cost for the letter of credit for the five years.
Mr. Garcia: It will be fifty basis points and I don't have the total number
on that. It's fifty basis points.
Commissioner Dawkins: Fifty.
Mr. Garcia: You know, one half of one percent. Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right. Fifty basic points.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, but is that outside of the two hundred thousand
of additional interest?
Commissioner Dawkins: Yes.
Mr. Garcia: I believe so. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, then, when I asked the...
Commissioner Dawkins: And you're not saving nothing. I keep telling you all
that, but nobody listens to me.
Mr. Garcia: The net result is that it will reduce the cash flow requirements
this year from five million dollars to one and a half million dollars,
Commissioner.
Commissioner Dawkins: All you're doing is postponing the payment...
Vice Mayor Alonso: What will happen if we deny this?
Commissioner Dawkins: I'm sorry, Madam.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, no, no. Go ahead.
Commissioner Dawkins: All you're doing is postponing the payment, hoping that
when it falls due again, that you're in better shape than you are now.
Mr. Garcia: No, because we'll be paying...
138 January 23, 1992
0
i 4
Commissioner Dawkins: And there's a possibility you're going to be in worse
shape than you are now.
Commissioner Plummer: That ain't no lie.
Commissioner Dawkins: Ard, therefore, it's a... OK, it's a washout. I'm
sorry, Commissioner Alonso.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I just want to ask, what will happen if we just deny this
item?
Mr. Garcia: We'll have a three and half million dollar problem this year.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Problem.
Mr. Garcia: Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: Wait, wait. Say what? I'm sorry. Say that to her
again.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I asked... Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: Say that to her again.
Mr. Garcia: If we don't do this transaction, we'll have to pay five million
dollars this year versus one and a half million dollars for these bonds. So,
therefore, I will have a three and a half million dollar problem this year.
Vice Mayor Alonso: We are short...
Commissioner Dawkins: May I ask one question...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... three million, right?
Commissioner Dawkins: OK. May I ask one question, Commissioner?
Mr. Garcia: That's right.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's bottom line.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK. When you brought me the budget, you told me the
budget was balanced.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's why we didn't vote for it.
Commissioner Dawkins: I voted for a balanced budget.
Vice Mayor Alonso: But you didn't.
Commissioner Dawkins: Now you tell me the budget was five million dollars
short. Is that what you're telling me?
139 January 23, 1992
Mr. Garcia: I didn't bring you the budget, Commissioner. The Manager will
have to...
Commissioner Dawkins: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: Boy, run Venezuela!
Mr. Garcia: We'll have to answer that.
Mr. Odio: That's a fair answer. But the fact is that this resolution...
Commissioner Dawkins: No further questions. I rest my case.
Mr. Odio: When we brought the budget...
Commissioner De Yurre: I no speak English.
Mr. Odio: When we brought the budget, this resolution had been passed.
Commissioner De Yurre: I don't understand nothing.
Mr. Odio: Right? This resolution was passed.
Mr. Garcia: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: OK. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga. I know you speak good English...
Mr. Odio: We based our budget on resolutions that was passed...
Vice Mayor Alonso: So...
Mr. Odio: ... now it's Standard & Poors and Moodys says change the wording
here and there to meet our marketability on the bonds and that's what we're
doing today. If you... said a budget is a projection.
Commissioner Dawkins: Yeah, but when it's a budget projection, you tell me...
Vice Mayor Alonso: So what they are trying to tell us that we need three
million. We don't have it.
Mr. Odio: If this transaction is not done...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Even if we say yes, or we're in trouble.
Commissioner Dawkins: I'm sorry.
Mr. Odio: If this transaction is not done, we would have to pay five million
instead of one million and a half this year.
Commissioner Dawkins: But if you tell me to budget projection and say me at
that it's projected to be balanced, I understand. It's a budget projected
balance.
140 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: We are certainly learning that the budget is a more loosely
defined term than we all thought.
Commissioner Dawkins: I have made budgets. I know.
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Commissioner Dawkins: Budgets are projections. You take money and you put it
in the line items and you're hoping and you switch it around.
Commissioner De Yurre: It's just like...
Commissioner Dawkins: But you know what your revenue stream should be.
Therefore, you have your accounts receivables, your accounts payables and your
liabilities.
Mayor Suarez: Slush funds.
Commissioner Dawkins: That's right. That's your liabilities.
Commissioner De Yurre: Miller, it's like nine o'clock tonight. That's a
projection.
Commissioner Dawkins: I'm sorry.
Mayor Suarez: Sir. Gonzalez-Goenaga.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Two minutes?
Mayor Suarez: Please.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Or one minute? Two minutes?
Mayor Suarez: If you can keep it to one minute, so much the better, but two
minutes is...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: OK. Well, I'm going to be extremely short. The bottom
line, as far as the citizens is concerned, is that I have filed requests. I
understand that we have a financial advisor for the City of Miami, Mr. Howard
Gary, and I was given incomplete information of my requests. And from the
incomplete information, he earned more than half a million dollars just being
_ financial advisor for the City of Miami. I am not talking about Metro who is
a bigger "cifarra" than... because it has ten times more of the budget. We
have read, and I am sure it was on a front line in the Miami Herald, the
_ problem with the bonds. I am not only including the financial advisor who
should be here answering questions to the very knowledgeable Commissioners
about investment banking, but also bond counsel who are also paid and I don't
see their presence here. I would love to question the financial advisor for
the City of Miami after earning such huge amounts of money where he has an
interest on this refinancing. That's number one. Number two...
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. You asked a good question. Is there any
possibility that a conflict of interest of the financial advisor to this City
has an interest in the resale of these bonds.
141 January 23, 1992
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Mr. Garcia: I don't believe so. Commissioner,...
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. Don't tell me you don't...
Mr. Garcia: No. I don't...
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. I'm not going...
Mr. Garcia: I'm saying no. Let me say why.
Commissioner Plummer: No. I want an unqualified no.
Mr. Garcia: Let me say this transaction is being done through the Florida
League of Cities. Mr. Howard Gary, neither Raymond James & Company have
nothing to do with this transaction. Precisely, we're using the Florida
League of Cities because their issued cost is very low compared to what it
costs the City to sell bonds.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mr. Garcia: So neither one of those two firms, nor bond counsel of the City,
are involved with this transaction.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. Well, let me...
Mr. Garcia: As a matter of fact...
Commissioner Plummer: Let me go on the record so that this can be understood.
I sit on that committee...
Mr. Garcia: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: ... of the Florida League of Cities and I will assure
you that that will not happen.
Mr. Garcia: Right.
Mayor Suarez: By the way, just out of curiosity, because the figures given by
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga, which I presume were given to you by the City, Mr.
Gonzalez-Goenaga pursuant to one of your requests, are rather high amounts of
money. Is some of that financial advisor's compensation paid from the bond
issues themselves?
Mr. Garcia: Normally, they are. The million dollars that Mr. Gonzalez-
Goenaga is mentioning...
Mayor Suarez: Half a million he said. Half a million.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's high.
Mr. Garcia: ... I have never seen that kind of number. Half a million, yes,
that's possible.
142 January 23, 1992
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Well, that I know.
Mr. Garcia: OK.
Mayor Suarez: Well, you know the whole issue and the whole philosophy, if
this makes you feel any better,...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: No.
Mayor Suarez: ... of...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Worse.
Mayor Suarez: Well, I haven't said it yet. Of a financial advisor who
derives some compensation from the City or even from the bond issues
themselves or a cost associated with the bond emission, I'm not comfortable
with those kinds of monies. I'm not comfortable with what it is that we get
for that financial advice and I have a feeling that we're going to be
reviewing that as soon as his contract comes up for rebid or renegotiations.
So, maybe you will have had at least one salutary, helpful intervention here
in a year and a half of otherwise pestering this Commission. Go ahead.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Would it be too late in the year to have one? Why he
is not here to answer the questions from the Commission?
Mayor Suarez: All right, sir. But you asked that already and we don't have
an obligation to find...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: And it's impossible. He's too busy with the Metro.
OK, the second part is...
Mayor Suarez: We don't have an obligation to find whoever it is you want to
be here to answer your particular questions.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Well, I am not knowledgeable, but I can assure you that
I know a little bit than most of... some of this Commission about investment
banking. Number two. It looks like...
Commissioner Plummer: I was always taught that a little bit of knowledge is
dangerous.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... and again I repeat, but Commissioners have very
short memories. The essence, the crux of the matter is full and fair
disclosure and I urge the Mayor that when I file a letter... be answered
accurately as if he would have been in a courtroom, not with half truths.
Because as far as I am concerned, a half truth is worse than a lie. Thank you
very much.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Thank you. I think there was a reference to me
there.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Now. It seems...
143 January 23, 1992
A 1*
Mayor Suarez: I do want to say for the record, if I may, that I do get a lot
of your requests. Some of them are routed through to me, some to the City
Clerk, some to the City Manager, and we're doing the best we can but there's
many, many requests that you've made. They're handwritten and your
handwriting is not that bad, but some of the stuff that you request would
require the City to spend an inordinate amount of time and would ultimately
cost the taxpayers a lot of money. So, at some point it may be that we will
have to have recourse to some judicial proceeding where we show the court that
you are costing us money with all the requests and that we... There are
certain limitations to the public records law in the State of Florida. But I
think in substance we're trying to answer all your concerns and in this
particular case, you raised a very interesting one, by the way. All right.
Commissioners. Vice Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Then if we go in the direction that it seems we are
going to go, by the end of this vote, we are short three million?
Mr. Garcia: Yes, ma'am.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Terrific.
Mayor Suarez: OK. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?
If not, please call the roll.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you... The motion is... the last motion was to
deny.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Deny.
Mayor Suarez: I thought it wasn't. I thought you...
Commissioner Plummer: No, I asked for... couldn't get a second on approval,
so the only...
Mayor Suarez: ... were being facetious on that.
Commissioner Plummer:
Commissioner De Yurre:
... second...
I'll move to approve it. I move to approve it.
Commissioner Plummer: I'll withdraw because... the only reason I made a
motion to deny was I could not get in a motion for a...
Commissioner Dawkins: Just withdraw. Just withdraw your motion.
Commissioner Plummer: I withdraw my motion.
Commissioner Dawkins: Thank you, that's all.
Mayor Suarez: Thank you. Moved...
Commissioner De Yurre: Move to approve.
Mayor Suarez: ... by Commissioner De Yurre.
144 January 23, 1992
'01
Commissioner Dawkins: Now you second.
Commissioner De Yurre: Now you second. Second
Mayor Suarez: That's a second in my book. Any further discussion? If not,
please call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner De Yurre, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-49
A RESOLUTION AMENDING AND SUPPLEMENTING RESOLUTION NO.
91-886 OF THE CITY OF MIAMI, FLORIDA ADOPTED ON
DECEMBER 5, 1991, ENTITLED: "A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY
OF MIAMI, FLORIDA, PROVIDING FOR THE REFUNDING OF THE
OUTSTANDING PORTION OF THE CITY'S CERTIFICATES OF
PARTICIPATION, SERIES 1986; AUTHORIZING THE ISSUANCE
BY THE CITY OF MIAMI, FLORIDA OF NOT TO EXCEED
$5,000,000 IN AGGREGATE PRINCIPAL AMOUNT OF REFUNDING
REVENUE BONDS, SERIES 1991 TO FINANCE THE COST OF SUCH
REFUNDING, FUND A DEBT SERVICE RESERVE FUND, AND PAY
THE COSTS OF ISSUANCE OF SUCH BONDS; COVENANTING TO
BUDGET AND APPROPRIATE PAYMENT OF THE PRINCIPAL AND
INTEREST ON THE BONDS FROM THE CITY'S NON -AD VALOREM
REVENUES; COVENANTING TO MAINTAIN AND COLLECT SPECIFIC
AMOUNTS OF NON -AD VALOREM REVENUES; AUTHORIZING A
NEGOTIATED SALE OF THE BONDS AND THE EXECUTION OF A
PLACEMENT AGENT AGREEMENT WITH RESPECT TO THE BONDS;
APPROVING A PRELIMINARY PLACEMENT MEMORANDUM WITH
RESPECT THERETO; AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION AND
DELIVERY OF AN ESCROW HOLDER; APPOINTING A REGISTRAR
AND PAYING AGENT FOR THE BONDS; MAKING CERTAIN
COVENANTS AND AGREEMENTS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE
HOLDERS OF SUCH BONDS; AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE
DATE;" FOR THE PURPOSE OF EFFECTING CERTAIN AMENDMENTS
THEREOF TO IMPROVE THE MARKETABILITY AND THE RATING OF
THE BONDS; AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
ABSENT: None.
145 January 23, 1992
COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL:
Vice Mayor Alonso: I think we have very little choice but to say yes. So...
Commissioner Dawkins: I have a good choice. No.
18. CONTINUED DISCUSSION CONCERNING RESOLUTION TO ACCEPT BID ON THE ORANGE
BOWL MODIFICATION PROJECT, PHASE II (1992) -- JOIST REPLACEMENT AND
RESTROOM FACILITIES IMPROVEMENT -- CITY COMMISSION REJECTS ALL BIDS
RECEIVED -- INSTRUCT ADMINISTRATION TO REBID PROJECT, SEGREGATING THE
PAINT PORTION OF CONTRACT (See label 9).
Mayor Suarez: All right, we're back on the item that was tabled from the
morning, what is the recommendation, Mano? - since you were...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Back to three, right?
Mayor Suarez: Can we try to handle this at some point, I don't know if it's
going to be favorable to your position, if it is, we may not need to hear from
you, we may need to hear from someone who is less favorably affected by your
recommendation. Is there now a status report on what the lowest bid is and
what amount it entails, etcetera?
Mr. Odio: We followed his instructions. We have not met with them or talked
to them at all.
Mayor Suarez: Oh, that's lovely. So we tabled...
Mr. Odio: That's what I was told.
Mayor Suarez: ... with the expectation of furious...
Mr. Odio: ... that they were to come back and...
Mayor Suarez: ... discussions and all we have is absolutely no input from the
City Manager's Office...
Mr. Odio: I can give you...
Mayor Suarez: ... pursuant to the City Attorney who gave you bad advice.
Mr. Odio: I can give you some solution, maybe, partial solution, so that we
can come out of this whole...
Mayor Suarez: I thought that we were going to hear then a voluntary proposal
from the lowest bidder...
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor, may I offer you...
146 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: ... that might make us inclined to do something and, if so, you
better do it real quick then because I thought we were going to hear from the
Administration.
Mr. Odio: In order to comply with the law, may I suggest that you award this
bid, subject for me bringing it back after final negotiations.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I don't like this.
Commissioner Plummer: Which one are we talking about?
Mayor Suarez: OK, can we put in the record, are you inclined to put in the
record... do we have a problem, Mr. City Attorney if he puts in the record
some figure that he's lately been contemplating as the total?
Mr. Sheldon: No, I'm not going to say anything.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. I was out of the room, Mr. Mayor. What is
before us?
Mayor Suarez: Well, now the City Attorney has apparently instructed the
Manager, much to my chagrin, that he should not have entertained discussions
over lunch and all this time on the issue of what actually will their bid be.
The bid meaning the bid of the lowest successful bidder for the entire
package. So now we get a report saying that they have not talked, but that
the Manager is inclined, perhaps because he has some intuition of what they
might go down to...
Mr. Odio: I didn't say that.
Mayor Suarez: ... that he is inclined... I said it. I said it and I put it
on the record.
Mr. Odio: OK. OK. I'm sorry.
Mayor Suarez: Thank you - That he inclined to have us give him, accept the
recommendation, rather accept them as the lowest bidder and leave him the
ability to negotiate, keeping in mind that we always have final approval, I
think at some point when the matter comes back to us ready for actual
signature on the contract.
A. Quinn Jones, Esq.: That's correct.
Commissioner Plummer: Not if you select them.
Mr. Odio: I could bring it back next Thursday, next Commission meeting, with
a recommendation that go ahead or not, based on what we negotiate here.
Mayor Suarez: City Attorney, is that procedure acceptable to you, legally?
You don't see any problems other than my own quotes?
Mr. Jones: Yeah, that's OK.
147
January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: You're saying select the recommendation of the low
bidder...
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: ... and send it to the Manager for negotiation?
Mr. Jones: Of a contract.
Commissioner Plummer: Does that include the painting contract?
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, as of now it's the whole package.
Mr. Jones: It would have to be with the whole package.
Commissioner Plummer: No way.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Commissioners.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't have... Mr. Mayor, excuse me. I don't
understand how anybody could sit here and vote for a company who has, outside
of their projected cost of nine hundred to a million dollars, have a
discrepancy disparagingly in their bids of a million three. I don't
understand - I... somebody might come here and prove that there was a reason
for it, but I don't think they can.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Manager. I mean, this Commission, are you also
giving the Manager the right that, in the event, that the Manager does not
reach an agreement with the number one low bidder that it goes to the number
two low bidder since everybody is crying that this is an emergency and this
has to be done? Why are you going to not find a solution with this individual
and then decide that you're going to go out and rebid it? I mean, you know,
"you are throwing the baby out with the bath water." I don't know, I was just
asking.
Vice Mayor Alonso: We need an answer.
Commissioner De Yurre: Mr. Mayor, I was talking to these gentlemen...
Mayor Suarez: Do you want to try to - Did you understand the answer posed?
Mr. Jones: Yes, I did. In that event, Commissioner Dawkins, what you'd be
required to do is go back out to bid.
Commissioner Dawkins: That's where I'm headed.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask a question of both firms...
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait. Commissioner De Yurre has the floor, I just
wanted to get that answer.
Commissioner De Yurre: First, during lunch time, I had a chance to talk with
these gentlemen a little bit, and they were trying to give me an explanation
as to why there was such a difference by the same company as far as the
3
148 January 23, 1992
pricing is concerned and, without me having to go into it, maybe they can
address it quickly so maybe we can get a little bit better grasp of what we're
dealing with here.
Mr. Dana Sheldon: Dana Sheldon, President Danville-Findorff. We were able to
contact all the painters that gave us prices over the break this morning, and
I wanted to try and clear up some misconception of this incredibly high paint
price because we keep thinking paint. To my surprise... I did bring up
earlier that I felt the lead abatement portion was worth several hundred
thousand dollars. To my surprise, over lunch, it's worth $1.5 million to do
the lead abatement portion of it. Not the painting portion. It's going to be
abated to get rid of this lead contaminated material that's on the west
portion, and the east portion of the catacombs, and a small portion of the
press booth.
Commissioner Plummer: But wasn't that the same criteria set forth to all?
Mr. Sheldon: Yes, sir and their prices... yes, sir, their prices were even
higher, Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: My point is...
Commissioner De Yurre: Let him get to it, J. L., because he explained it to
me.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mr. Sheldon: There was prices thrown out from the City's estimate of
somewhere.like between nine and $1.2 million, I think, of the paint, and I was
curious if that included the lead abatement or not because we were very
surprised how high the lead abatement is. And one of our offers were that if
we are awarded the thing to negotiate to go back and re -look at the lead
abatement because it is a very specialized thing, it's going to be done during
the rainy season, and in a short period of time which you're paying a premium
for, and I think that needs to be looked at. We can go ahead and do this
whole stadium, a complete job of everything you ask, leave the lead abatement
out so we can re -look at it, it's not going to affect the structural
integrity, you're going to get everything you want, and we'll be able to
investigate that further along with the City on trying to put the burden of
the lead abatement on the painting contractor, which we think ought to go to a
different type of contractor.
Commissioner De Yurre: But get to the point where you told me wherein you get
a fixed price from a sub and then you play around with those numbers.
Mr. Sheldon: I'm sorry?
Commissioner De Yurre: What you guys were telling me.
Mr. Sheldon: OK. On the paint, we got four prices, I believe on the... we
got three that I know of. I think we got a fourth one which was not an
approved painter, and this painter we used was the lowest out of all of them.
It was a qualified painter. That paint portion, item 5, only includes part of
this... it includes painting the stadium. There's another portion which
149 January 23, 1992
painting the structural steel beams or joists, which we're replacing. That's
in another number altogether. He was the lowest price on that and he was also
the lowest on the stadium. We went back... and let's say that's our... I
think our price is three million and change for item 5. We didn't elect to
put any supervision and general conditions, scaffolding and cranes. We have
that in our other items which are throughout the project. Then again, we
didn't realize that these items are going to be used as a price selection of
picking and choosing. We thought it was for accounting purposes. So I think
the other contractor, the other bidder said... everybody looks at this thing
differently. We elected not to put any extra money on the paint. We gave you
the net price that the painter gave us and I think maybe we have some bond on
it, and that's about it, for painting of the steel. That's it, we didn't put
no supervision, no general conditions, no cranes, no insurance, no builder's
risk, no nothing. That's the paint. Some people may have put other portions
of their project in there, so it's not the painter gave everybody a different
price. That's not the case.
Mayor Suarez: Some of that is what was being referred to before by the Vice
Mayor as overhead, which is part of the reason that some of these prices might
differ from the same subcontractor for the same component of the bid.
Mr. Sheldon: Yeah, they might be different. Exactly. The painter didn't
give everybody...
Commissioner De Yurre: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: All right what is the bottom line?
Commissioner De Yurre: Let me say something...
Mayor Suarez: Yes, Commissioner.
Commissioner De Yurre: ... so we can maybe understand this a little bit
better. If we add up items number 1, 2 and 5, which are the three major
items, for Danville and for States, the difference is for... Danville has five
million seven hundred thirty-five thousand, State has five million seven
hundred one thousand. It's a $34,000 difference between the two groups. It
seems like they've played around and added part of the cost maybe to item
number 1 as opposed to 2 or 5, and that's just something that they did on
their own.
Mr. Sheldon: And there you're comparing exact scope of work for scope of
work. And the prices are pretty much the same.
Commissioner De Yurre: So it seems like, basically, between those three items
which are the major ticket items, there's hardly any discrepancy, $34,000
difference between those three major items which are the bulk of the work. So
maybe you know, once we get this explanation, we can understand this a little
bit better. And it's not that this was the actual bid given for that
particular item, but they took whatever bid they got, they may have added to
it, or taken a component of it and added it to another number and played
around with it in that fashion, but the bottom line is they're basically the
same numbers when you add them up.
I
� 150 January 23, 1992
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Commissioner Plummer: May I inquire?
Mayor Suarez: Wait, Commissioner Dawkins has been...
Commissioner Plummer: I'm sorry. I'll wait.
Mayor Suarez: Thanks.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. City Attorney.
Mr. Jones: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: In the event, which I feel will happen, either of the
bids that lost this job, because of what we're doing now, decides to sue, do
you feel that you can, not successfully defend us because nobody knows how the
judge or the jury will rule, but would you be comfortable, even though you
have to go because you represent us, going to court to defend the actions of
having changed this bid, in my opinion, from the original bid?
Mr. Jones: Commissioner Dawkins, it depends on what action you take and if,
in fact, you do make an award. I'd only issue the following caveat which is
the same caveat I issued to you prior to breaking for lunch. The most
protective position you'd find yourselves in, if you were to go ahead and make
an award, and it depends on you whether you're going to separate, sever out
the painting portion. In any event, the preferred way of doing it would be to
go ahead and make an award to the lowest bidder. If there are any
negotiations that are going to be taking place, certainly those negotiations
should take place at that particular point in time. But prior to your making
an actual award, I think it's wholly improper and you really place yourselves
at a severe disadvantage to conduct any negotiations in that regard.
Mayor Suarez: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: My question is you represent Danville?
Mr. Sheldon: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Are you indicating, for the record, that the price
given to you by the painting contractor is a net figure that was given to you
by him?
Mr. Sheldon: Approximately. I think we have the bond on there.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir. Yes or no. I mean...
Mr. Sheldon: Within $30,000. We put our bond on that and that was it.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, now to the State Paving, are they still here?
Mr. Walt Wadsworth: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, are you stating, for the record, that the prices
which you quoted in your bid from the painting contractor are net compared to
your total overbid?
151 January 23, 1992
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Mr. Wadsworth: They're net, minus certain minor costs which we would add.
Commissioner Plummer: Would you outline them for me, sir?
Mr. Wadsworth: There is some supervision of the painting...
Commissioner Plummer: How much over what he gave you as his price is included
in your bid?
Mr. Wadsworth: There was a hundred and twenty day period beyond which the
other portion of the contract was to be completed. We would remain on site
with trailers and so on and so forth.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, it's an easy question.
Mr. Wadsworth: It's a hundred and twenty days more so we had about $38,000.
Commissioner Plummer: So what you're saying is it was thirty-eight thousand
you added to his bid to you?
Mr. Wadsworth: That's correct.
Commissioner Plummer: Is that correct?
Mr. Wadsworth: That's correct.
Commissioner Plummer: And you're saying it's thirty-four thousand over what
his cost to you? Is that correct?
Mr. Sheldon: Yes, sir, that's about what our bond is.
Vice Mayor Alonso: So he has given different prices to everyone.
Commissioner Plummer: So where is the game playing? I don't understand.
Excuse me, just for the record, what was the difference between their bid on
the painting and their bid on the painting?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Six hundred thousand.
Mr. Odio: Five hundred and twenty thousand dollars.
Commissioner Plummer: Five hundred and twenty thousand dollars between your
bid and his bid.
Mr. Odio: Five twenty, yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. Now you're saying it's thirty-eight thousand over
what he gave to you as his cost, and he's saying thirty-four thousand and it's
five hundred and twenty thousand? That's got to scratch somebody's head.
Something is wrong. I will not, under any circumstances, vote for this
company until somebody comes here and justifies these tremendous amount of
discrepancies.
152 January 23, 1992
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Mr. Sheldon: Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: Now...
Mr. Sheldon: I'm sorry.
Commissioner Plummer: Go ahead, sir.
Mr. Sheldon: Commissioner Plummer, we're not sure how they looked at the job.
He mentioned that we all look at it different.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, my question couldn't have been simpler. Over the
bill that he gave him he says thirty-eight thousand dollars is what he added
to the painting bill. You stated for the record, based on the bill he gave
you, you added thirty four thousand.
Mr. Odio: May I ask something?
Commissioner Plummer: What was...
Mr. Odio: Did the painting contractor give you the same price as they did
you?
Commissioner Plummer: Obviously not. How can it be, if they only added
thirty-four and they added thirty-eight and there's...
Mr. Sheldon: We don't know Commissioner, but we asked our painter...
Mr. Odio: The sub...
Mr. Sheldon: ... to take out certain things on his bid that we...
Mr. Odio: Excuse me one second. Let me point this out. A sub might give
different prices to different people.
Commissioner Plummer: I understand that. OK. But what I'm saying to you is
here is the fact that we're half, at best, we're a half a million dollars
apart. At best.
Mr. Sheldon: But the bottom line is we worked almost two hundred thousand
dollars cheaper. And our painting price, we asked our painter, we don't know
what scope, we told our painter we'll furnish the crane, we'll furnish the
scaffold, we'll furnish the hoist, we'll furnish the trucks, we'll furnish the
men. We've got almost three hundred thousand dollars of cranes in this job.
He was going to put in, I think, over a hundred fifty thousand for his crane
work. We said don't do any of that, we're going to cover all that. So maybe
he bid him a different scope. We don't know. We tell people the way we want
them to work for us.
Commissioner Plummer: It still, sir, can't be denied that from the bottom
figure to the top figure on all six bidders, same specs, the same painting
company, is what's the difference between the high and the low? A million
three? A million six?
153 January 23, 1992
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Mayor Suarez: No a million I think was the...
Commissioner Plummer: No, it's over a million. From the high to the low.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Over a million.
Mayor Suarez: As you get...
Mr. Odio: A million two.
Commissioner Plummer: A million two.
Mr. Odio: Something like that.
Mayor Suarez: Well, and a more relevant figure perhaps because you never
know...
Commissioner Plummer: I want to tell you, that's a hell of a lot of cranes.
Mayor Suarez: ... J. L., because you never know what each one is including in
their bid, is how different is your item for paint amount with the lowest one
that is given in all the other ones, just out of curiosity?
Commissioner Plummer: The Administration...
Mr. Sheldon: I don't understand the question, I'm sorry.
Mayor Suarez: The item that you've got included for your subcontracting for
paint is how much different, how much higher than the lowest one of all the
six?
Mr. Sheldon: I believe four hundred thousand, I think it's, but...
Mayor Suarez: OK, now.
Mr. Sheldon: ... "we are comparing apples to apples." I think...
Mayor Suarez: I know. I know, but now when I ask...
Mr. Sheldon: ... Commissioner De Yurre added up the whole scope and those
numbers compare. Now how is...
Mayor Suarez: Right. Yeah, that's interesting because that shows that there
is some...
Mr. Sheldon: ... we came up with probably a cheaper way to do the work.
Mayor Suarez: Let me say something, please.
Mr. Sheldon: I'm sorry.
Mayor Suarez: That shows that there is probably some good faith reallocation
of some overhead items and items that are otherwise absorbed by the contractor
versus the sub, etcetera, as you have indicated and, as Vice Mayor Alonso
alluded to at the beginning of all this discussion.
154 January 23, 1992
11
Commissioner Plummer: That's not what they put on the record.
Mayor Suarez: Now, I want to ask the Manager. Having heard all this, do you
stick to your sort of intuitive estimate that the, for example, their
particular component just for paint, OK, which is, what amount do you have for
the paint portion of this? What we've been calling the paint portion of this,
item a I think it is?
Mr. Sheldon: I'm sorry?
Mayor Suarez: What is your subcontractor's amount for paint in...
Mr. Sheldon: For item 5?
Mayor Suarez: Right. Item 5.
Mr. Sheldon: Around three, a little over three million dollars.
Mr. Odio: Three million eighty-seven thousand.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Three million.
Mayor Suarez: OK, do you now, having heard all this, Mr. Manager, and our
incisive questioning, etcetera, and their explanations of what they included
and what it entails, etcetera, are you now more ready to say that you can be
comfortable with whatever you negotiate with them as the lowest overall bidder
if you take over the whole negotiation from this point forward with a positive
recommendation? And that you're not going to come back and say, you know I'm
still really uncomfortable with that paint item as being too high.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Is it worth it to even go through that exercise?
Commissioner De Yurre: Is it legal?
Mayor Suarez: And then we got to make sure it's legal, too. I think we've
heard that it's legal, but I just want to...
Commissioner De Yurre: But can it be thrown out... If we award this today...
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, then the secondary question is...
Commissioner De Yurre: ... with the idea that the Administration is going to
try to knock it down further...
Mr. Odio: I have an idea... yes.
Commissioner De Yurre: ... and if we're not satisfied with that, can it be
thrown out and be rebid?
Mr. Jones: What are you... Can you throw out the bid at that point?
155 January 23, 1992
Commissioner De Yurre: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Mr. Jones: No.
Commissioner De Yurre: So once its awarded, we're stuck with that company?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but Mr. Mayor, let me tell you again where I'm
troubled. From the Administration, and I'm accepting the Administration's
word, that the cost of materials is...
Mr. Odio: Is two hundred thousand.
Commissioner Plummer: ... two hundred thousand dollars.
Mr. Sheldon: That's not true, Commissioner. We found out also...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, sir. You want to argue with my
Administration, you argue. I'm telling you what they're telling me. All
- right?
Mr. Sheldon: OK. I wasn't questioning you. I'm sorry. I wasn't questioning
you, we found out from the painting manufacturer at lunch time that the paint
is over five hundred thousand dollars. We don't know where the two came from.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir. I'm going to use that number provided by my
Administration...
Mr. Sheldon: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: ... who, if they goof, I got to deal with them. All
right?
Mr. Sheldon: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Now, let me tell you what bothers me. What bothers me
is two hundred thousand dollars worth of materials, that means in your bid,
three million dollars for labor?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah, that's the point.
Commissioner Plummer: Three million for labor? Ridiculous!
Vice Mayor Alonso: Of course.
Mr. Sheldon: Commissioner, you're paying a premium for the lead abatement
which is a speciality item. Which nobody has any control over and can put a
number on.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, everyone of you had the same set of circumstances.
Mr. Sheldon: Yes, sir.
156 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: OK. So, you know, don't tell me that yours is
different than his or any of the others.
Mr. Sheldon: We're saying it's exactly the same as his.
Commissioner Plummer: They're all... we're playing by the same rules. The
"memory zipper," it's there. OK.
Mr. Odio: Let me...
Commissioner Plummer: Now how do you justify, sir, well I heard your
justification. Mr. Manager, he is questioning your number of two hundred
thousand dollars. Do you wish to correct that?
Mr. Odio: We have an outside architect and we have outside engineers that
prepared this bid for us. They are telling me now that the estimate is two
hundred thousand dollars.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, then get them on the record. Go ahead, Jorge.
Mr. Wadsworth: You mean you're going to let them sit down, now? I mean...
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. Not necessarily.
Mr. Wadsworth: ... I haven't had equal time yet. I'm surprised they're going
away from the microphone, that's all.
Commissioner Plummer: For the record, state your name and who you represent.
Mr. Jorge Estevanez: Jorge Estevanez...
Mayor Suarez: The voice that we just heard on the record is of, please state
your name again, sir, so we can...
Mr. Wadsworth: My name is Walt Wadsworth with State Paving, and I'd...
Mayor Suarez: Very good, thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: We'll get to you in a minute.
Mr. Wadsworth: ... I'd like the opportunity to speak at some point.
Commissioner De Yurre: Yes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, yes.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, yes, it's just that the Commissioners are eliciting
information, both from the Administration and from one of the bidders at the
same time. It does seem...
Commissioner Plummer: I assure you, sir, you'll have your day in the barrel.
Mr. Wadsworth: Thank you.
157 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: Go ahead.
Mr. Jorge Estevanez: Jorge Estevanez with Urban Architects. I'm the
architect on the project. We were told that the, our estimate for the
material was in the range of two to three hundred thousand dollars.
Commissioner Plummer: You were told or you found out?
Mr. Estevanez: Well, that's what we were told.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you recommended "X" paint...
Mr. Estevanez: Yeah.
Cormissioner Plummer: ... by even trade name, OK. I'm assuming you
established, not what you were told, you established that the materials were
"X" number of dollars.
Mr. Estevanez: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: And you're saying, for the record, you're now
correcting it two to three hundred thousand?
Mr. Estevanez: Two to three hundred thousand dollars is the information we
had.
Commissioner Plummer: Then I still go back... does it make any sense to you,
sir, as my so-called legal advisor...
Mr. Estevanez: Legal?
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, my architectural advisor.
Mr. Estevanez: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: Can you give me any explanation why materials are three
hundred thousand and three million for labor?
Mr. Estevanez: Yeah. The problem with the painting of the stadium is, the
lead abatement, or the presence of lead in the old paint of the stadium has
been highlighted by the Federal Government, by DERM (Department of
Environmental Resources Management, by EPA (Environmental Protection Agency),
and it's a developing problem. The steel console...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Now, you are aware, when you're speaking,
that the same painting contractor bid with all six as a sub under the same
rules and conditions and that there was a million two difference in his...
Mr. Estevanez: There were differences in the painting bid. The low painting
bid, and this is, a lot of, we're not privy to all this information that the
contractors have. We were not part of the bidding process.
158 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I asked him on the record, sir.
Mr. Estevanez: But on the record, the lowest paint price was two million nine
hundred thousand and the highest was close to four million dollars.
Commissioner Plummer: There's a million two discrepancy.
Mr. Estevanez: There's large discrepancy in that number. They're all...
Commissioner Plummer: OK, but the same contractor bid as a sub with all six
of the bidders. Now, he had this lead problem whether it was company A, B, C
or D.
Mr. Estevanez: Yeah, but we don't...
Commissioner Plummer: Can you tell you me...
Mr. Estevanez: No, I can't. I can't tell you, Mr. Plummer, how a contractor
structures their prices, and in what section of the bid do they put certain
prices.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask you one other question, sir.
Mr. Estevanez: They all had access to not one painter, but to several
painters. And they obviously, I would assume they all used the lowest price.
Now why, if they all used the same painter, are there different prices, it's
because other factors are included in that price.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't agree with that statement because they all
played by the same rules. My question to you, sir, were you the one who
established the cost factor projection of nine hundred to a million two?
Mr. Estevanez: We had looked at the price about a year ago, and were working
with those prices since then. Unfortunately, the steel painting console
promulgated new guidelines in December for lead abatement. The Federal
Government has become much more aggressive, and the problems that we've had in
trying to pin that price, this is like one of the first contracts that's out
after those regulations have been promulgated, is something that was almost
not considered before now suddenly becomes something similar to asbestos.
It's a number which we're, it's a wild number in effect. We don't know...
Commissioner Plummer: Are you still of the opinion that the cost factor
should be nine hundred to a million two?
Mr. Estevanez: Well, obviously not. The estimate was wrong. I mean, I'd be
mistaken to tell you...
Commissioner Plummer: Obviously, why?
Mr. Estevanez: Well, obviously because the impact of the lead abatement
wasn't appreciated to the extent that the people doing the work...
Commissioner Plummer: Did the subcontractor have to take that consideration
on all six of the people he offered to be a sub for?
159 January 23, 1992
Mr. Estevanez: Yeah.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Why did you select even the paint by name?
Mr. Estevanez: Well, it's like painting your house. Normally, we paint... in
a normal building, we paint it all at once. That is, if you contract to paint
a building, you usually use one manufacturer to paint the whole building. We
don't specify different manufacturers for, let's say, different elevations or
different portions of the building.
Mayor Suarez: No, but you can specify a manufacturer for the whole thing
leaving that for the selection by specifying quality. I mean we don't
anticipate the person can use all kinds of different manufacturers' paint.
But, we understand that it would be one, but not necessarily this particular
one.
Mr. Estevanez: Yeah, but the end product, Mr. Mayor, is that the entire
building would be painted with one paint...
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Mr. Estevanez: ... and one paint manufacturer.
Mayor Suarez: Yes. All of this bid, I think, had to do with the entire
building....
Mr. Estevanez: Yeah, I understand.
Mayor Suarez: ... so it would be one paint manufacturer as long as that was
specified.
Mr. Estevanez: We've been painting...
Mayor Suarez: But, why this one?
Mr. Estevanez: ... we've been painting now for three years, and when you do a
phased project, there comes a point where...
Mayor Suarez: All the painting up to now has been with this manufacturer?
Mr. Estevanez: Yeah. The first and the second year were with Sherwin
Williams. It comes...
Mayor Suarez: It's the old... We weren't really responsible. But the course
was chosen before us by prior decisions. Yeah.
Mr. Estevanez: Well, no. I have no interest in the paint manufacturer at
all. And, I really don't care...
Vice Mayor Alonso: It just seems very unusual.
Mr. Estevanez: ... which you do, but if you do the Orange Bowl, and we go out
to five bids for paint...
160 January 23, 1992
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Mayor Suarez: I got you.
Mr. Estevanez: ... say phases, we conceivably could end up with five paint
manufacturers.
Mayor Suarez: I didn't realize that already a lot of painting had been done,
all of which, supposedly as you're stating now in this new phase of
renovations, etcetera, had been with this particular kind of paint. That is
some explanation.
Mr. Estevanez: There's interest in terms of guarantee, in terms of
maintenance, in terms of being able to stock material, in order to identify
which paint is applied where. It's a lot easier, in long run, if it's all in
one.
Mayor Suarez: Do you happen to know why that one was initially chosen? Is
there any particular reason that...
Mr. Estevanez: Originally, it was an open specification, and it just happens
that it was a preferred specification, undoubtedly. It was one of the three
normally that are used. But the first two years, it was an open
specification.
Mayor Suarez: What are the other two? Just out of curiosity.
Mr. Estevanez: I couldn't tell you now, but we talked to Rustoleum, we talked
to all the major paint manufacturers and we have... any one of them could have
been used. Now, if this building would have been painted all at once, you'd
end up with one paint manufacturer. So, just because it was done in phases...
Mayor Suarez: No, we understand that. We're slow, but we...
Vice Mayor Alonso: One more question. Do you have any answer for us as to
why six companies ended up with the same contractor and the difference in
prices? Do you have any answer?
Mr. Estevanez: Well, this is my opinion and although some of the gentlemen
here have said different things... If they all used the same paint
manufacturer, they were all using him because he gave them... I'm sorry, the
same painting subcontractor, it's because, I would assume, that he gave them
the lowest price. Now what one of the gentlemen said is perfectly correct.
He can decide, a single bidder, a bidder or contractor, can decide to provide
the support to the painter that another one will require the painter to
provide for himself. So, conceivably, it could be the same painter, but
there'd be different scopes.
Mayor Suarez: But that's not really what she asked. She asked why would it
work out that all of them...
Vice Mayor Alonso: All of them.
Mayor Suarez: ... included the same subcontractor? You were getting ready to
say the reason, and I suspect that, between what we were told before and what
161 January 23, 1992
L
i
you're telling us now, it becomes a little clearer that there's only thrPa or
four in the entire country, in the entire industry that do this, and of t,.ose,
maybe there's one that's concentrating in South Florida that picked up the
initial RFP, went and negotiated a low price with all of the...
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, way, I don't buy that.
Commissioner Plummer: The whole thing's out.
Mayor Suarez: ... principal bidders. That's the only thing that I can see in
this.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No way.
Mr. Estevanez: In the specifications...
Commissioner Plummer: Let me tell you what I just found out. Mr. Mayor, are
you ready for this?
Vice Mayor Alonso: As soon as we finish with this. Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, I'm sorry. I interrupted you, Vice Mayor.
Mr. Estevanez: I lost my...
Vice Mayor Alonso: I don't blame you. Now maybe we'll go to him.
Mr. Estevanez: The interest... The way that a bid is structured in a
subcontract bid, normally a contractor would choose the lowest bidder if, in
his opinion, he's a qualified bidder.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Estevanez: Apparently, whoever, and I don't even know who the lowest
paint subcontractor was, or the one that they all decided to use... The price
is different depending on the kind of support that the GC (general contractor)
gives him. For instance, if the GC says I don't want to have anything to do
with the paint, you provide everything, you know, and I want minimal contact,
the price will be higher than a GC that says I'm going to give you the crane,
I'm going to... you know, help you clean up, I'm going to take care of the
disposal, I'm going, you know, help you build the... you can use my
scaffolding that I'm using for something else, so it could be a very
reasonable explanation of why there's a variance. The reason there's a
variance in the price, is not the material. It's basically this lead
abatement problem which is an evolving national problem. The Federal
Government allows the...
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no.
Mr. Estevanez: ... manufacture of lead paint, it allows you to use lead
paint, but the problem comes when you try to take lead paint out, when you try
to remove the lead paint, and logic would tell you that the course would be to
162 January 23, 1992
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i46
eliminate lead paint largely and the problem would solve itself over a period
of time. But right now, the guidelines are in flux and the regulations are in
flux. For instance, last year...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah, but it does not change the fact that all six of them
will have to be addressing the same problem.
Mr. Estevanez: Oh, yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: I hate to do...
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner Plummer, and then we're going to have to take
action on this and move on, folks.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me bring out...
Vice Mayor Alonso: He has the answer.
Mayor Suarez: I said afterwards.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mayor Suarez: Go ahead, please.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, can I put the two under oath?
Mayor Suarez: I think we have a...
Commissioner Plummer: Can I put both of the companies under oath?
Mayor Suarez: I don't know that we can require them, but I don't think any of
them would have a problem being put under oath, possibly.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, may I...
Mayor Suarez: We have the power...
Commissioner Plummer: May I have both of the companies' presidents, or
whatever they're representing, put under oath, please. And I want to re -ask
my questions.
Mayor Suarez: Let me tell them, because I remember the history of a similar
situation that, if you are under oath in an official proceeding, there's a
special State Statute that applies and makes any statements that you say
perjury, I forget of what degree, just so you know that, and if you want to
consult your counsel, that's fine. If you're going to tell the truth, I
suppose you should have no concern.
163 January 23, 1992
Neil Flaxman, Esq.: In all fairness, Commissioner Plummer, I don't think this
is... I appreciate your wanting an investigation. We understand that.
Commissioner Plummer! I didn't say that, sir. I'm trying to get to the basis
of maybe there's a need for an investigation.
Mr. Flaxman: We are willing to do that. And I even told the City Attorney, I
said - Mr. City Attorney, if after you accept this thing, you want to throw us
out because we can't prove to you...
Commissioner Plummer: It's not my point, sir.
Mr. Flaxman:... what you want to know. Excuse me.
Commissioner Plummer: My point is based on statements that your company made,
and the other company made, that I want to get a determination because we have
now made contact with the painting contractor, and it's totally, totally
nowhere near the statements that both companies just made.
Mr. Flaxman: Well, could you tell us what that was and then perhaps we can...
Commissioner Plummer: Then you'll decide whether you want to go under oath,
huh?
Mr. Sheldon: Sure, because I don't know where we're going.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. Let me tell you. I'll do that for you, sir.
Mr. Sheldon: All right, thank you.
Mayor Suarez: At least what the gist is of what you were told so they have an
idea if they're...
Commissioner Plummer: The painting contractor was contacted. His statement
was that in all six bids, there was not one to two percent difference in his
bid to all six, not to exceed a hundred thousand dollars. Your company
stated, sir, that the only thing they added to his bid was thirty-eight...
thirty-four thousand dollars. Your company stated thirty-eight thousand
dollars, yet there is a five hundred thousand dollar discrepancy between your
bid on painting and theirs. Now, somebody is not telling this Commission the
truth. And I want it on the record, and I would appreciate it under sworn
testimony.
Commissioner De Yurre: Did he give you the figure or...?
Commissioner Plummer: They told, and I don't mind putting it on the record,
Mr. Goldfarb called the company...
Commissioner De Yurre: Who's that? The Herald?
Mayor Suarez: Put them under oath.
Commissioner Plummer: He called the company and they said that all six of the
bids they submitted, there was not one or two percent difference, on all six
164 January 23, 1992
Ok
about a hundred thousand dollars. This company said that the net bid from the
' painting company, they added only thirty. -four thousand dollars.
fCommissioner De Yurre: But did he get the amount?
Commissioner Plummer: They said the net figure given by the company, they
only added thirty-eight thousand dollars.
Commissioner De Yurre: Did you get the amount?... Hello...
i
Commissioner Plummer: To be exact, one... - put my damn glasses on...
Commissioner De Yurre: Let's get Goldfarb under oath here, for once.
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, I think we need to hear him.
Commissioner Plummer: ... one is, it's roughly five hundred and, five hundred
and eighty thousand dollars difference. Now... something is absolutely wrong!
Mr. Flaxman: Well, it can't be us then, can it?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Common practice in the field is that you put in certain
items the additional amount of money that you want available for the job to be
able to move it, you will complete the job, but you move it around.
Mayor Suarez: From item to item.
Vice Mayor Alonso: It's a very common practice. It's given to the banks,
it's given to the industry, it's given to the cities, to government, to
everyone concerned. So that's what's happened here.
Commissioner Plummer: Miriam,...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Paint, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) line is the easiest.
Mayor Suarez: OK, the Manager...
Commissioner Plummer: ... when I asked for a net figure, "net" is pretty
easy. I asked, what did you add on top of the net figure?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, they felt embarrassed to say the truth.
Mr. Sheldon: What bid item? All of them, or just bid item 5?
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait. You're not conducting this here, counselor,
as much you've been pretty successful up to now.
Mr. Sheldon: He wasn't directing me, Your Honor.
Mayor Suarez: And you certainly aren't. So wait.
Mr. Odio: Mr. Mayor, you asked me a question.
Mr. Sheldon: He asked me a question.
I
165
January 23, 1992
Mr. Odio: The Mayor asked me a question a while back.
Mayor Suarez: Mr. Manager.
Mr. Odio: He asked me what would my recommendation be. We came in this
morning prepared to tell you that we did not want to award the paint part of
this bid because we felt it was too high. My mind hasn't changed at all after
I heard all of this. I still think we should award, we have to award, the
joist and the other work part because we will not have time to have it ready.
Mayor Suarez: All right, I thought you were going to address...
Mr. Odio: And then come back... come back out with a...
Mayor Suarez: ... the item...
Mayor Suarez: ... at hand that was pointed out by Commissioner Plummer...
Mr. Odio: ... if we...
Mayor Suarez: ... and you are going back to a prior question. The
Commissioner would like to carry on this inquiry to get all this resolved
under oath.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Having heard what his proposed line of questioning is, I would
think that, that would not be a problem, but...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, look. Something's radically wrong. There's
a skunk. It smells. Now somebody, based on these two companies' statements
into the record, is wrong, unless the painting contractor is wrong. Excuse
me, and I'm not taking his word as gospel. OK? I'm telling you what was told
to the Miami Herald. I'm assuming he had no reason to lie. What I'm saying
is the integrity here is at stake.
Mayor Suarez: Well, other people that are in the audience might think that
what smells and what stinks is our inability to get through this one item and
get through some other items as much as it does have some great financial
consequences. I'm not sure that it does because...
Commissioner Plummer: It's more than financial consequences.
Mayor Suarez: Right. I think we're heading in the direction that it might
not ultimately have too much financial consequence. But I think that the
question as posed by the Commissioner bears answering and with information
provided by the Miami Herald. So there you have your foundation for the
question. You can question the foundation if you want to. Now, and the
question mathematically, could somebody help me if I don't have this right.
What you're saying is that at one point you asked the lowest bidder, Danville
how much they added...
Commissioner Plummer: I asked both, sir.
166 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Right. I'm going to do both. How much they added to the basic
bid that they got from the paint subcontractor and they said, how much more?
Commissioner Plummer: Thirty-four thousand.
Mayor Suarez: Thirty-four thousand. And you asked at some point State Paving
how much they added and they said...
Commissioner Plummer: Thirty-eight thousand.
Mayor Suarez: Thirty-eight. In fact, according to...
Commissioner Plummer: The bids which we have.
Mayor Suarez: ... the subcontractor, the most variation that they claim that
they put in any of these six, and there's a good question to ask them why they
had any variation on their basic bid, but anyhow, sub -bid, is like two percent
of an item that we may assume, we don't really have the total absolute figure,
but somewhere in the vicinity of three million dollars so it would never
vary...
(INAUDIBLE COMMENT NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD).
Mayor Suarez: No? The basic bid would be around where?
(INAUDIBLE COMMENT NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD).
Mayor Suarez: We don't know.
Commissioner Plummer: There's a discrepancy, just for the record, there's a
discrepancy between these two firms...
Mayor Suarez: Right and that's what we're going...
Commissioner Plummer: ... in the painting contract of $564, 577.
Mayor Suarez: Maybe, OK, so the logical question is how do you explain, both
of you explain, the discrepancy of five hundred some thousand when a two
percent variation certainly wouldn't come anywhere close to that by any
stretch of the imagination because if it was about three million on the base
1 bid for the subcontractor, you're talking, I think, about sixty thousand
dollars on two percent, and even if it was higher, which it wouldn't be, we
-i don't...
Commissioner Plummer: I think the statement for the record was, by the
painting contractor, it did not exceed a hundred thousand dollars.
Mayor Suarez: Did not exceed a hundred. So, we've got a five to one
discrepancy there. I think what you're about tell us is their bid on that
item is the higher one of the two, so maybe they ought to be answering us. Is
that what you're about to tell us?
Mr. Sheldon: No, I'd like to...
167 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: You tried to before.
Mr. Sheldon: I'd like to get the question clear so we know what we added
thirty-eight thousand dollars to.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, I couldn't have been any clearer. I asked you
what was the net figure he gave you for his cost of being your subcontractor?
And how much did you add to that bill?
Mr. Sheldon: OK, and Commissioner...
Commissioner Plummer: Your answer on the record was thirty-four thousand.
Mr. Sheldon: On bid item 5...
Commissioner Plummer: On item 5.
Mr. Sheldon: Item 5, yes. I don't know if their price...
Mayor Suarez: No, no. Yours, yours.
Commissioner Plummer: Don't you speak for them.
Mr. Sheldon: OK. I think what we need to do, because the painting
contractor's not here, is ask, and I'm willing to divulge this, what the bid
on the painting contractor was to us for the entire project? Forget bid item
5 because these, everybody puts that money somewhere else and we've got a
right to do that, OK? We've got a right to also discount their price and
anticipate a buyout and give that benefit to the City to make our price low.
OK, I'm...
Mayor Suarez: Oh, absolutely. We don't mind those buyouts at all.
Mr. Sheldon: ... I'm willing to divulge and the question you're asking on bid
item 5, I'm giving you the honest truth,...
Mayor Suarez: We like those. We like those discounts.
Mr. Sheldon: ... we put our bond on there. If you ask the question what was
the subcontractor's price to you for the entire project, including bid items 1
through 11,...
Mayor Suarez: Sir, are you saying...
Mr. Sheldon: I'm willing to do it.
Mayor Suarez: ... that there's a possibility that the discrepancy is created
because you took the subcontractor's price and you reduced it and absorbed
some of that?
Mr. Sheldon: Yes, sir.
Mr. Wadsworth: Exactly.
168 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Well, Commissioner Plummer, that certainly takes a little bit
of the sting out of this under oath investigation. Maybe. I don't know.
Now, do you want to try your answer to that?
Mr. Sheldon: That's a gamble on our part.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, after all the discrepancy, what we should do is to
throw out all the bids and start over.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, that was not my, that was not my question. My
question, with or without the sting as you refer to, is how much was the
painting subcontractor's cost to you, net and how much did you add?
Mayor Suarez: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: Nothing about the total items...
Mayor Suarez: I understand.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. It was very clear, my question. It wasn't
semantics that I was playing.
Mayor Suarez: Now we're, however, going into an area that I want to make sure
that we're on solid legal grounds here. Counselor, are we OK if we start
asking them to answer to us on how much the sub -bid to them and so on, or can
they just simply claim privilege on that?
Mr. Jones: Well, they could claim privilege, and I think it's well beyond the
scope of what's before you.
Mayor Suarez: Although if we felt, of course, that we had been defrauded by
somebody, we would...
Mr. Jones: It's up to these individuals. If they want to answer your
questions...
Mayor Suarez: ... and they didn't want to tell us all of that, we could at
some point determine that they're simply not going to be responsible bidders
in the future if they don't give us all that information. But I'm not sure
that we're at that point.
Mr. Sheldon: We're willing to give you all the information you want, your
Honor.
Mayor Suarez: I'm sorry?
Mr. Sheldon: I'm willing to give you every bit of information you ask me.
Commissioner Plummer: You will forward to me, and I'll ask of both companies,
the exact bid you received from the subcontractor, the painter?
Mr. Sheldon: What I have is a phone bid. Yes, sir.
169 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: A phone bid?
Mr. Sheldon: A phone bid. They call it over the phone and they give you a
price over the phone and we write it on our bid form.
Commissioner Plummer: You know what you can do with a phone bid?
Mr. Sheldon: That's how we put all our bids together for the last twenty
years I've been in the business.
Mayor Suarez: I am sure in your business, Commissioner, you have given some
phone quotes every once in a while.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but don't try to hold me to them.
Mr. Sheldon: And we've been stuck before, too.
Mayor Suarez: But not directly to the client.
Commissioner Plummer: Nobody comes back in my business and asks for a
clarification.
Mayor Suarez: To the client's relatives, not directly to the client.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor, if we move that we throw out all the bids, can
we come back within fifteen days and then we don't have to go through the
experience of what has happened today. This is very irregular. We have seen
all kinds of problems, mistakes, irregularities. Maybe the best way is to
start a new process, and I think this is a very dangerous procedure if we
accept after all that we have seen here today.
Mayor Suarez: All right, let's do this. We certainly have spent a lot of
time on this. We're going to hear your statement, a complete statement on
your preference and anything else you want to comment on, but keep it to no
more than five minutes.
Commissioner Plummer: Wait, but I have another question.
Mayor Suarez: I was afraid of that.
Commissioner Plummer: Of both companies. Sir, do you do the replacement of
the concrete decks or do you sub it?
Mr. Sheldon: We do, we do it most of the time ourselves.
Commissioner Plummer: In this bid, are you doing it or are you subbing it?
Mr. Sheldon: We were subbing this to Urban Construction.
Commissioner Plummer: All right, sir. In this bid, are you doing it or are
you subbing it?
Mr. Wadsworth: We are performing the work ourselves.
170
January 23, 1992
■
Commissioner Plummer: And there is a discrepancy here of four hundred
thousand dollars, with a low bid in this particular item of five hundred and
forty-nine thousand. Now, if they're all bidding on the same thing, the
difference between State Paving and the other one is two hundred thousand,
between Danville-Findorff and the low bid is six hundred thousand. Mr.
Manager, in your estimation, can there be that much difference in the item 2,
replacement of concrete decks?
Mr. Odio: Yes, Commissioner. You know, these are sealed bids. It depends on
the particular situation a company might have. In this particular case, the
contractor. I was telling Commissioner... I worked eighteen years of my life
preparing bids. Each bid is different. It depends on what profit I want to
have at the time, or I need to cut so I can have the job to keep my people
employed. A lot of things go into consideration. What you should be
considering is how much are we going to pay out?
Commissioner Plummer: My other question...
Mr. Odio: And that's why I said I think we were paying out too much money on
the paint, and I think the joist prices...
Commissioner Dawkins: That's the third time I heard the final question.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, how much was the projected cost of that particular
item?
Mr. Odio: Let me tell you something. From exp... and I can tell you this
because I discuss this a lot...
Commissioner Plummer: How much was the projected cost on that item?
Mr. Odio: Wait, let me answer your question. It costs us two thousand
dollars a joist on the prior work at the Orange Bowl. This one is estimated
to be about seven hundred dollar. So, we are coming ahead.
Commissioner Plummer: How much was the projected cost of this item?
Mr. Odio: I don't know. Of the total item? How much was it, anybody? Is
anybody home?
Commissioner Plummer: Of this item. Item 2.
Vice Mayor Alonso: How much?
Commissioner Plummer: A million four.
Mr. Odio: A million four. What I'm saying, this has come in lower than what
we paid before in the prior experiences we had with the joist replacement.
Commissioner Plummer: On item 2?
Mr. Estevanez: On the joist replacement?
Commissioner Plummer: No.
171
January 23, 1992
11
Mr. Estevanez: On the deck replacement.
Commissioner Plummer: Item 2. What was the projected cost?
iMr. Estevanez: Item 2 is a replacement of the concrete joist.
Commissioner Plummer: No, the concrete decks.
-I Mr. Estevanez: Decks. I'm sorry, the concrete..
i
Commissioner Plummer: And what was the...
Mr. Estevanez: One million four.
Ms. Hirai: Excuse me, we need this statement on the record.
Mayor Suarez: Mr. Estevanez, we need your statements on the record.
Ms. Hirai: Yes, thank you.
Mr. Estevanez: Yes, my name is Jorge Estevanez, Urban Architects. Item 2,
replacement of concrete decks. The bids range from...
I
Commissioner Plummer: I didn't ask you what the bids were. What was the
projected cost?
Mr. Estevanez: We had estimated a million four.
Commissioner Plummer: Then, I must ask you what was your projected cost on
item 1?
Mr. Estevanez: Two eight. Two million eight.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Two?
_ Commissioner Plummer: How did you... Excuse me. What was your projected cost
on the total project?
Vice Mayor Alonso: How?
Commissioner Plummer: There is no way he is going to tell me six million
dollars on these projected costs. No, no, no.
Mr. Estevanez: We had estimated a total of six million three hundred and
sixty-three thousand dollars. Six million three hundred and sixty-three
thousand dollars.
Mr. Wadsworth: No, well sort of, yeah.
j3
Commissioner Plummer: Knowing we only had six hundred million? Uh, six
million.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Six million.
172 January 23, 1992
11
Commissioner De Yurre: I though we have seven.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Now, but before we had six.
Mr. Estevanez: Well, we were working on the seven million number. Those
prices on the joists were documented prices based on years of doing this
process. How these numbers... Again, it's the same thing as the paint. How
can you get a variance by different contractors?
Commissioner Plummer: No, it's the same contractor. The same contractor bid
on all six. I mean, how many times have I got to say that?
Mr. Estevanez: No, no. We're talking about the decks and the joists.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, the joists. Well, one does it in-house and one
subs it.
Mr. Estevanez: You know, it depends on how they restructure their bid. Yeah,
but one doesn't mean that one's going... For instance, the one that subs it
might do it cheaper than the one that does it in-house. It just, the
variances on the numbers are...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, no the only thing I got a question, sir, is you
estimated a million four?
Mr. Estevanez: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: And one company came in at five hundred thousand. You
were way off.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Estevanez: Yeah, but he wasn't the low bidder.
Commissioner Plummer: No he was on that particular item,.
Mr. Estevanez: Yeah, but you can't do that. Because he might have all his
overhead and all the other stuff in some other item.
Commissioner Plummer: I understand.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, he certainly did it, the painting. Three million nine
hundred and thirteen. Didn't I tell you the painting is just the right place
to put everything?
Mr. Estevanez: Uh, Commissioner...
Commissioner Plummer: Madam Commissioner, we're going to rename the Orange
Bowl the Rembrandt Stadium.
Mr. Estevanez: Commissioner. On, on excluding the painting, the prices are
phenomenal. Cheap. That is...
173 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Are you serious?
Mr. Estevanez: Excluding the painting, well excluding the painting, I mean,
you know, the estimates were in the range of five million dollars. And
they're coming in the range of three. The only thing that is higher is the
painting portion of the work. Everything else, all the other prices of the
two or three lowest bidders are very, very low prices.
Mayor Suarez: Sir.
Mr. Wadsworth: It would seem then that the logical thing to do... My name is
Walt Wadsworth, State Paving Corporation. Since we're so tow on all the other
portions of the work, in fact we're over ten percent low on the other portions
of the work, and the painting work is so screwed up, I think that's pretty
obvious from two or three hours worth of discussion, how screwed up it is, the
logical thing is to rebid the painting and award the joists. I think it's a
fairly logical sequence of events.
Mayor Suarez: In addition to the fact that it happens to favor your
particular company.
Commissioner Plummer: Take out the paint and...
Mr. Wadsworth: Absolutely.
Mayor Suarez: There we go.
Mr. Flaxman: We bid this as a base contract.
Mayor Suarez: All right. OK, I just want to see where this Commission wants
to head before we take too much more testimony because we certainly have heard
enough from your side and from yours...
Commissioner Plummer: You're asking where the Commission wants to go?
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner De Yurre indicated that he would be back in a
couple of minutes.
Mr. Flaxman: We have...
Commissioner Plummer: I'll indicate on the record where I'm at.
Mr. Flaxman: We have told the County Attorney and we make...
Vice Mayor Alonso: City.
Mr. Flaxman: ... the City Attorney, I'm sorry...
Mayor Suarez: The last statement and Commissioners we have to grapple with
this and decide one way or the other.
Mr. Flaxman: Neil Flaxman representing Danville. We've told the City
Attorney, to show our good faith, that we are willing, correct me if I'm
wrong, give me a hit, we are willing... We want to get the negotiating process
174 January 23, 1992
U
in place. We want Commissioner Plummer's questions answered. We want to do
all that. The only way to do that is not before you, is before the Manager,
we will...
f
E Mayor Suarez: Well, it certainly started before us, so don't discount all of
this.
Mr. Flaxman: All right. Well, what I am saying is the only way legally we
can do this, is we've agreed that if you give us the award, if the Manager is
unhappy, if we do not negotiate in good faith, if in fact, you're not happy
with the - If he reports back I'm not happy with the painting, there's
something wrong there, we will walk away, we're waiving our rights to be the
lowest bidder which we are now. We'll walk away.
Mayor Suarez: Mr. City Attorney, does that offer on the record help us in any
way to alleviate concerns if we were inclined at a later point to then...
Mr. Jones: I still don't think it addresses the total concerns that you have.
Certainly, I mean, it's...
Mayor Suarez: Well, nothing addresses the total concerns that we have, but I
mean...
Mr. Jones: Or the immediate concerns.
Mayor Suarez: ... put us in a, OK, legal posture of being able to defend our
actions if...
Mr. Jones: I don't think...
Mayor Suarez: Let's assume the Manager is himself dissatisfied with the
negotiations and recommends back that we reject all the bids...
Mr. Jones: Well, let me...
Mayor Suarez: ... is that an easier process?
Mr. Jones: No, let me just say this, Mr. Mayor, because we seem to be
confusing the process of competitive sealed bids with competitive
negotiations.
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, and we don't want to do that.
Mr. Jones: We've been going back and forth on that. I still maintain that
either you make an award based on the fact that it's the lowest responsible
and responsive bid or, in the alternative, you sever the painting portion as
the City Manager has recommended or, the other alternative is to reject all
bids, or there's even a fourth alternative where you can reject all bids, the
Manager can declare an emergency. He can go out and get, negotiate with
several firms and come back at the next meeting. Those are your alternatives.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I offer a motion...
i
Mayor Suarez: All right.
175 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: ... at this time that the award go to the lowest bidder
excluding the painting contract.
Mayor Suarez: That's the one thing you cannot do.
Commissioner Plummer: Why? No, he said I could.
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: Oh, the lowest. First you have to segregate that...
Commissioner Plummer: The lowest bidder excluding the painting contract.
Mayor Suarez: All right. So moved. I see what you're saying. That implies
a rejection of, or disapproval, I guess, of that painting subcontract and
approval of the rest of the bid.
Mr. Flaxman: We'll take that.
Mr. Odio: I think I need to say something. I'm getting...
Mr. Flaxman: We have proposed...
Mr. Odio: Wait just a minute.
Mayor Suarez: But wait, we don't have a second on the motion. Please, now
the Manager is running this Commission meeting.
Commissioner De Yurre: We got your position. Is there a second?
Mayor Suarez: We have a motion. Do we have a second on that motion? Do we
have a second on that motion? All right.
Commissioner De Yurre: Motion, Mr. Mayor.
Commissioner Plummer: I'll sleep well tonight.
Commissioner De Yurre: I move that we approve the bid process and that the
lowest bidder be awarded the contract with the understanding, legally that we
are giving this award based on the facts presented to us by the recommending
body. And I am not going to take... because I don't want this to come back to
haunt us legally, I am not taking what they have said on the record here as
part of my determining factors in awarding this bid. All this promise of
negotiating further, all this promise of the administration being able to
throw it out if it deemed appropriate, I am not considering that in my
determination.
Mayor Suarez: In your motion?
Commissioner De Yurre: In my motion.
Mayor Suarez: But you're not precluding any such negotiations or any
reduction?
176 January 23, 1992
Commissioner De Yurre: If that happens, but that is not part of my... that's
not the reason why I am doing it. I am awarding it based on the
recommendation of the administration being brought to us as the lowest bidder,
that they get the contract.
Mayor Suarez: So moved. Do we have a second on that motion? Do we have a
second on that motion?' OK, I'll second it. Madam Vice Mayor.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask a question. If that negotiation fails, then
we are put off at best until the 13th of February, is that correct? I'm
sorry, if in fact the Manager is not satisfied with the total package, then
we're put off and delayed again?
Mr. Jones: Commissioner, keep in mind...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, I...
Mr. Jones: I'm sorry.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, is that correct?
Mr. Odio: Well, if I cannot negotiate a deal with them in a contract
acceptable to you, we would have to start all over again, if that's what I
understand, and you're talking thirty...
Commissioner De Yurre: No, once it is awarded, it's awarded.
Mr. Jones: No. May I correct you? That's incorrect.
Commissioner De Yurre: Why?
Mr. Jones: You would be stuck with the bid, because you awarded it.
Commissioner De Yurre: Once you award it, it's awarded.
Commissioner Plummer: You've already awarded the bid.
Mr. Odio: Well that's my question.
Commissioner Dawkins: Now...
Mr. Odio: But they are saying... they have said that if they cannot... I
heard the attorney say that if...
Commissioner De Yurre: OK, but that is not my consideration for the votes. I
don't want it to come back to haunt us legally, what has been said here. I do
not take that.
Mr. Odio: OK.
Mayor Suarez: OK, but I also don't want to give up on that possibility,
Commissioner, so.
177 January 23, 1992
1,
Commissioner De Yurre: If that happens...
Mayor Suarez: It's on the record, they have stated it...
Commissioner De Yurre: That's fine.
Mayor Suarez: ... and I would love to be able to have that to hang on to
later if in fact the Manager is not able to negotiate a contract.
Vice Mayor Alonso: So then the motion will have to be ciarirlea.
Commissioner Plummer: Is this not giving them a vested interest? Is this not
giving them, Mr. City Attorney, a vested interest if in fact it fails?
Commissioner Dawkins: Hey, hey, wait a minute. Isn't the public hearing
closed? I mean, if we're just going to go here.
Mayor Suarez: We are discussing.
Commissioner Dawkins: But the public hearing is closed. Have him sit down so
we can get the hell out of here.
Mayor Suarez: So that it's understood.
Commissioner Plummer: Can I get an answer?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. City Attorney.
Mr. Jones: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: When you do as the motion implies, are you not giving
them a vested interest?
Mr. Jones: In terms of awarding the bid?
Commissioner Plummer: As the motion implies, are you not giving them a...
Mr. Jones: I am asking, in terms of awarding the bid?
Commissioner Plummer: Would you read for the City Attorney, the motion
please.
Mr. Jones: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: Read the motion for the City Attorney.
Ms. Matty Hirai: Awarding it to the lowest bidder with the understanding that
the recommendation is made on the basis of the administration's
recommendation.
Mr. Jones: Absolutely. I've gone on record, it's already stated.
178
January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: And if in fact that is then turned down by the Manager,
they had a vested interest which they lost? Is that correct?
Commissioner Dawkins: No.
Mr. Jones: The Manager could not turn them down, he'd be obligated because
you've already making an award.
Commissioner Plummer: That's exactly the point I am making.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, Commissioner.
Commissioner Dawkins: I mean, I'm sorry, Madam Vice Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, no, Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Manager, correct me if I am in error. When you
came in this morning, your recommendation was to remove the painting, and by
removing the painting, the number two firm becomes the number one firm, and
therefore, your recommendation was to drop the paint and go with the number
two firm. Was that what you recommended this morning, sir?
Mr. Odio: It was this morning, and it is now.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right, sir. I just... no, no, I just want the
records to reflect.
Mr. Odio: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... that what you said this morning and what
Commissioner De Yurre is saying your recommendation is now, is different.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: And for the record, that was the motion that I made
that failed to get a second.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Exactly. Now, it is understood - Mayor, did you second
the motion of Commissioner De Yurre...
Mayor Suarez: Yes, I did.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... with the understanding that this contract is awarded
as such?
Mayor Suarez: Yes, I didn't like his particular clarification, but I
understand what he means to do because he thinks that solidifies the chance of
being able to withstand legal challenge, for example, by them. Personally, I
am more concerned that they negotiate in good faith with the Manager as per
some of the statements that we have heard, and this proposed waiver, that they
would even understand and not sue if the Manager, at the end of process, says
that...
179 January 23, 1992
Mr. Sheldon: Yes, sir. If we don't come to an agreement, we will walk away.
Mayor Suarez: Well, it will really help if you just sort of let me complete
my statement...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Sheldon: OK. I'm sorry.
Mayor Suarez: ... because I think that, although the City Attorney hasn't
said it, if he felt, the Manager felt that in negotiating the fine points of
the agreement they were not acting in good faith, that he could just simply
refuse to sign an agreement and I think that we can withstand a challenge in
court by them. And that's the one that I am concerned about, because as the
lowest bidder, if we accept him, it's their challenge I am concerned about,
not so much as theirs. That's why, I understand his motion, I understand his
clarification, I don't necessarily...
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. It's clearly understood. Let's call the roll.
ON MOTION DULY MADE BY COMMISSIONER DE YURRE AND SECONDED BY MAYOR
SUAREZ, THE ABOVE MOTION FAILED BY THE FOLLOWING VOTE:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
ABSENT: None.
COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL:
Commissioner Plummer: Emphatically no!
COMMENTS MADE AFTER ROLL CALL:
Commissioner Plummer: I will offer, I'll try again.
Vice Mayor Alonso: The motion fails.
Mayor Suarez: OK, that motion fails.
Commissioner Plummer: I'll try again. I'll make my motion that it be awarded
to the lowest bidder, excluding the painting contract.
Mayor Suarez: OK, so moved. And once again, for clarification in effect that
segregates out the painting subcontract portion...
Commissioner Plummer: Correct.
180 January 23, 1992
IF
Mayor Suarez: ... rejects - that sends that back for redefinition, and
accepts the rest of the package as presented.
Commissioner Plummer: That is correct, sir.
Mayor Suarez: I can't vote for that. All right, so moved. Going once, do we
have a second?
Commissioner Dawkins: What is the motion, Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Suarez: The motion is that we reject the portion of the bids that deals
with the painting subcontract, and accept the rest of the package which would
mean, the lowest bidder, which is then State Paving, for the rest of the
package.
Commissioner Dawkins: Motion understood.
Mayor Suarez: OK. Do we have a second on it though? Because this is my
third time of asking for a second, but to clarify, we will ask a fourth time,
do we have a second on that motion? Don't have a second on that motion.
Folks, I think we are just about to the end of our options, and I think a
motion that would be in order would be...
Vice Mayor Alonso: To throw out the bids.
Mayor Suarez: ...to reject all bids.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Reject the bids, and I so move.
Mayor Suarez: So moved. Mr. Manager, if this motion passes, I wouldn't even
have to tell you how quickly we all want the process to take place. I do
propose... thank you.
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor, you've...
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Mr. Jones: I'm sorry to intervene.
Mayor Suarez: A voice from the Legal Department, otherwise known as the
"technical impediment department." Go ahead.
Mr. Jones: I've been called better things.
Mayor Suarez: Yes. - And worse.
Mr. Jones: And worse. In response, because Vice Mayor Alonso raised this
question earlier about the urgency of coming back quickly, or whatever else,
but keep in mind that there is a code requirement...
Mayor Suarez: Yes, we follow all the code requirements...
Mr. Jones: ... of fifteen days for advertisement.
181 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: so we know you and the Manager are going to be working
carefully to...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Fifteen days. Well, how about fifteen days?
Mayor Suarez: ... make sure that our special session, if need be...
Mr. Jones: So you're talking about a whole process of about thirty days.
Mayor Suarez: ... as suggested by the Vice Mayor...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: ... is called outside or within...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Fifteen days and a special session. Why not?
Mayor Suarez: ... those norms, and with all of that...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, we meet again in 18.
Mayor Suarez: ... we have a motion then to reject all bids for the reasons
stated amply in the record. And we are not going to hear anymore testimony on
that, counselor, we really have heard enough.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me.
Mayor Suarez: This position is one that I feel very secure on, voting on, if
it passes, that we can withstand any legal challenge.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: In instructions to the administration, are we going to
instruct them if they go out to rebidding, to exclude and make a separate
contract of the painting contract?
Vice Mayor Alonso: That might be very wise.
Commissioner Plummer: I mean, are you giving any kinds of instructions, other
than just to go out total in..., the total as it is now?
Mayor Suarez: Well, in view of every thing he has heard, I think, maybe, we
ought to do the two things separately.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: Are you amending the motion?
Commissioner Plummer: No, sir, I am not. I am asking the question of the
maker of the motion.
Mayor Suarez: Who was the maker of the motion?
182 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: I was the maker of the motion.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Do you accept that, Madam Commissioner, so we have
to have two separate motions?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: OK.
Vice Mayor Alonso: If the administration feels confident...
Mayor Suarez: How about even saying further...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... that it will not affect the contract or the effect of
the kind of job that has to be done.
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Because I was told this morning that it has some effect in
the kind of work that has to be performed. And I don't have the experience to
make that judgement, so I referred it to the experts in the City of Miami to
give me some sort of advice.
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I have no problem in including that in my motion, of
course.
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Manager.
Mayor Suarez: With that proviso that it's...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes?
Mr. Odio: Definitely.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. So, it's included.
Mayor Suarez: And assuming that you are doing... well, wait, wait... I won't
get any further into this, but I suppose he could desegregate the thing even
further and have other items also specially bid, but maybe, we don't go that
far. Let's at least do it as to the paint which apparently is a very big
component here, and a troublesome one where everybody came in at a totally
different figure. Those figures are now all public, are they not? For
everybody? So presumably...
Commissioner Dawkins: I would get a better deal.
Mayor Suarez: ... they will see that it's a good idea to come up with better
bids. So moved. Do we have a second on that?
183 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, Commissioner Dawkins did.
Commissioner Dawkins: Amend the motion, I'll second.
amendment, the Plummer's amendment.
Second, accepts the
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner Dawkins. Any further discussion?
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Yes, one second.
Mayor Suarez: No, no, Manolo. I think that you couldn't possibly be
dissatisfied with this. The Commission is basically starting the process
again, and you are going to have another bite of the apple at that point.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Finally, we will get a vote.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: One input.
Mayor Suarez: Maybe, you will decide to do other things, but... Call the
roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Alonso, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-50
A RESOLUTION REJECTING ALL BIDS RECEIVED BY THE CITY
IN CONNECTION WITH THE ORANGE BOWL MODERNIZATION
PROJECT PHASE II (1992) - JOIST REPLACEMENT AND
RESTROOM FACILITIES IMPROVEMENT BID NO. 3231-E;
FURTHER DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO SEEK NEW BIDS
BASED ON SUCH SPECIFICATIONS AS HE DEEMS APPROPRIATE
FOR THE PROCUREMENT OF SAID SERVICES, AND TO BRING
BACK SAID SOURCES AND SPECIFICATIONS TO THE CITY
COMMISSION FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Dawkins, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
ABSENT: None.
COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL:
184 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: I feel that it will be breaking faith because I don't
think we will be able to get finished with the Orange Bowl Committee and the
Hurricanes, so I have to vote no.
Mayor Suarez: This would be really fun, wouldn't it?
Commissioner Plummer: I'm sticking your butt out on that fifty yard line if
it's not finished.
Mayor Suarez: Oh yes, that's lovely. And I if I vote no, the same way you
just voted, then we have nothing done here today after all these hours of
discussion. You're a great friend here. No, I vote with the motion. Folks,
we will be back to hear this hopefully, a lot simpler the next time around,
and we are on to item nine or...
COMMENTS MADE AFTER ROLL CALL:
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor, let me put this on the record.
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: I mean, I heard what J.L. said,...
Vice Mayor Alonso: I want to respond to it.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... but I would hope that everybody in the audience,
including the media, would have people understand that this Commission is
committed to its promise on the Orange Bowl.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: But we are committed to doing it in a safe, and sane,
and at the least amount of money possible. So those who are coming back will
have to understand that when the Manager negotiates, he is going to be looking
at the completion date as much as he is looking at the price. Thank you, Mr.
Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: And also for the record, the time of the contract was a
hundred -and -eighty days?
Commissioner Plummer: Yes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I don't see why it cannot be completed.
Mayor Suarez: I sure hope it can be.
185 January 23, 1992
E
rJ
19. RENEW EXISTING CONTRACT WITH AUTOMATED MEDICAL SERVICES, INC., FOR
COLLECTION OF EMERGENCY MEDICAL TRANSPORTATION FEES.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Item 9.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, this is the item that I asked to be pulled
before. I have gone in-depth on this item...
Mayor Suarez: Do we need to take a motion on it or is it just withdrawn by
the Administration?
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, no, no.
Mayor Suarez: It is pulled. Tabled?
Commissioner Plummer: I'm going to make a motion for approval based on the
fact that number one, it is only for a one-year additional time, which was
provided for in the initial contract and number two, that this company has
demonstrated their ability to increase the amount of total revenue. I still
feel that we possibly could get it at a reduced rate if we went out and
negotiated but this is the way that it is going. I will ask the
Administration to look about it in house in the future, but at this time I
would move item 9.
Mayor Suarez: So moved.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Second.
Mayor Suarez: Second. Any discussion? If not, please call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-51
A RESOLUTION, WITH ATTACHMENTS, AUTHORIZING THE CITY
MANAGER TO RENEW THE EXISTING CONTRACT, IN
SUBSTANTIALLY THE ATTACHED FORM, BETWEEN THE CITY OF
MIAMI AND AUTOMATED MEDICAL SERVICES, INC. FOR THE
COLLECTION OF EMERGENCY MEDICAL TRANSPORTATION FEES,
THEREBY EXTENDING THE PERIOD OF SAID CONTRACT FROM
JANUARY 1, 1992 THROUGH DECEMBER 319 1992, AND TO
INCREASE THE TOTAL COLLECTION COST OF THE TRANSPORT
USER FEES TO AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $180,000 TO BE
PAID FROM REVENUES COLLECTED FROM SAID FEES.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
186 January 23, 1992
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Alonso, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
ABSENT: None.
COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL:
Commissioner Dawkins: I voted no the first time because I think this can be
done in-house and, therefore, for that reason, I vote no.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20. ACCEPT BIDS: (a) BARNETT OFFICE SUPPLIES, (b) RICHARD YOUNG, (c) DECORA
OFFICE FURNITURE, (d) OCEAN OFFICE PRODUCTS, (e) AFP INDUSTRIES, INC.,
(f) CLASSIC STATIONERS, INC., (g) N & K ENTERPRISES, INC., (h) MARTIN
ASSOCIATES, (i) APRICOT, AND (j) 9 TO 5 -- FOR OFFICE SUPPLIES.
Mayor Suarez: Item 10. Accepting the bid of Barnett Office Supplies.
Female, etcetera and others.
Commissioner Plummer: Move it.
Mayor Suarez: Moved.
Commissioner Dawkins: Dissatisfied with it, but I'll second it.
Mayor Suarez: Seconded. Any discussion? Thank you, Commissioner. Call the
roll.
187 January 23, 1992
A
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-52
A RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE BIDS OF BARNETT OFFICE
SUPPLIES, RICHARD YOUNG, DECORA OFFICE FURNITURE,
OCEAN OFFICE PRODUCTS, AFP INDUSTRIES, INC., CLASSIC
STATIONERS, INC., N & K ENTERPRISES, INC., MARTIN
ASSOCIATES, APRICOT, AND 9 TO 5, FOR FURNISHING
SPECIFIED STOCK AND NONSTOCK OFFICE SUPPLIES ITEMS, AS
NEEDED, ON A CONTRACT BASIS FOR ONE (1) YEAR TO THE
GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION AND SOLID WASTE
DEPARTMENT, PROCUREMENT MANAGEMENT DIVISION/CENTRAL
STORES, AT A TOTAL PROPOSED COST OF $194,292.00;
ALLOCATING FUNDS THEREFOR FROM THE 1991-92 INTERNAL
SERVICE FUND - CENTRAL STORES ACCOUNT NO. 420801-700-
511000; AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO INSTRUCT THE
CHIEF PROCUREMENT OFFICER TO ISSUE PURCHASE ORDERS FOR
THESE MATERIALS, SUBJECT TO THE AVAILABILITY OF FUNDS.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Dawkins, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
188 January 23, 1992
r.•
:
21. APPROVE CHIEF PROCUREMENT OFFICER'S DECISION TO REJECT THE PROTEST
RECEIVED FROM SAC CONSTRUCTION COMPANY INC., CONCERNING BID NO. 91-92-
026 FOR ORANGE BOWL STADIUM MODERNIZATION PHASE II, ASBESTOS CONTAINING
MATERIALS REMOVAL.
Mayor Suarez: item 11.
Commissioner Plummer: We are back to the Orange Bowl.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Isn't that great? We should have taken it together,
really.
Commissioner Plummer: Everything with the Orange Bowl is a problem.
Mayor Suarez: This one is the one that I received, I thought, correspondence
this morning. Maybe, not. They told me it was item 11, and yet they told me
it was from Danville.
Commissioner Plummer: Richard, you lied to me. You said that that weighed a
ton, and the three of you did not pick up a ton.
Mayor Suarez: What, Mr. Manager, before we get into this great...
Vice Mayor Alonso: This is very creative.
Mayor Suarez: ... prop and exhibits and all that. Madam City Clerk, you're
going to have to accept this exhibit into the record, you know, and keep it
and lug it arpund with you in your car for the rest of your life.
Commissioner Plummer: This is the slab, item 11.
Mayor Suarez: What is this about?
Mr. Odio: This is the...
Commissioner De Yurre: The Johnny Carson special.
Commissioner Plummer: Tiny Tim.
Mr. Odio: This is a reject... we are asking you to approve the Chief
Procurement Officer's decision to reject the protest received.
Mayor Suarez: No, I know all of that. What is this bid about? Is it not at
all related to what we've been doing for about four hours today?
Mr. Odio: This was the asbestos removal of the Orange Bowl material.
Mayor Suarez: The asbestos removal part.
Mr. Odio: Asbestos.
189 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: All right. So I was told wrong information this morning when I
was given a letter on the item we just voted on, that it had to do with item
11.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I don't want to talk about Orange Bowl anymore in my life.
Mr. Richard Weiss: Anybody know any good jokes?
Mr. Odio: I think, Mr. Mayor, I need to put on the record that this award...
the contract was already awarded in the last Commission meeting.
Mayor Suarez: OK. This is a late protest. I am not sure what the legal
implications are, but I am sure counselor is going to enlighten us beyond our
interest and...
Commissioner Dawkins: Here we go again, Mr. Mayor?
Commissioner Plummer: Maybe, we've got one more item on the Orange Bowl.
Commissioner De Yurre: Here we come again.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, fifteen.
Mayor Suarez: There he goes back to the sixties, again.
Commissioner Dawkins: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: Had a great phase of his career in the sixties, Commissioner De
Yurre. Yes, counselor. Your phase of enjoyment was in the fifties, but...
Mr. Richard Weiss: I was born in fifty-two. So, I remember those...
Mayor Suarez: You were born in fifty-two?
Mr. Weiss: Yes, sir. I had more hair then.
Mayor Suarez: Three years away from a very good year. Go ahead.
(LAUGHTER)
Mr. Weiss: Members of the Commission, I know that you are tired of hearing
about the Orange Bowl. We've been sitting here since nine o'clock this
morning.
Commissioner Dawkins: We have, too.
Mr. Weiss: I know that. And I just ask that... I wanted to tell you that the
matter that I am going present to you is very important to our clients, and I
would ask that even though you are tired that you try to pay attention to
this. It's a little bit complicated and I'd like to just ask your attention
on it. For the record, my name is Richard Weiss, I am a lawyer with my
offices across the street. I am with the firm of Weiss Serota & Helfman.
190 January 23, 1992
INAUDIBLE COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD.
Mr. Weiss: Two six six five South Bayshore Drive, Commissioner. We are here
today representing...
Mayor Suarez: You have occupational licenses there?
Mr. Weiss: Occupational license is on the wall. We bought a bulletin board
and they are up.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Wonderful.
INAUDIBLE COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD.
Commissioner Plummer: Is it current?
Mr. Weiss: Last time I checked. We are here today representing SAC
Construction Company, which is a locally owned general contracting company,
and their asbestos subcontractor owned by Mrs. Otazo and her husband. It is
not often that I am here taking a position that is contrary to your staff.
They are very professional and I don't like to be in this position. Before we
took this project, we did a significant investigation to determine whether, in
fact, our potential clients had a case because I didn't want to be here just
yelling and screaming at you. After speaking with people from the County,
from the State, and locally, I became convinced that there was no way that you
could have awarded this contract to the company that you did, if you had all
the facts and all the information before you. I have listened to the tape of
the City Commission meeting where this matter was discussed, and it is clear
from listening to that tape that you did not have information about this
contract. I want to tell you that you made a mistake at the last meeting, but
you have an opportunity today to correct the mistake...
Mayor Suarez: Procedurally, the fact that we did it at the last meeting...
Mr. Weiss: Yes, let me deal with that for you.
Mayor Suarez: ... does that preempt us from acting now?
Mr. Weiss: Your City Attorney will advise you, sir, that at the last meeting,
we filed our bid protest timely. Our bid protest hearing was schedule today.
Mayor Suarez: Any particular reason why it wasn't scheduled on the day that
we awarded it, the protest, Mr. Manager?
Ms. Judy Carter: It was received one day before the award.
Mayor Suarez: You don't sound like the Manager.
Ms. Carter: This office did not have sufficient time to prepare an adequate
response to this Commission.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, it was filed timely. My preference...
191 January 23, 1992
"k .4k
Ms. Carter: A notice was given to the Commission at that time that a bid
protest had been filed.
Mayor Suarez: My preference, Mr. Manager, my preference and let me, I
hopefully reflect the consensus of this Commission, is that if we get a bid
protest before the hearing of which we award a contract, we want to be advised
of it, and to the extent possible, deal with it then.
Ms. Carter: Yes, sir. You were advised at the last meeting that the bid
protest had been filed.
Mayor Suarez: I could have sworn I heard a voice go by real quick, and say,
well, you did.
Mr. Weiss: Mr. Mayor, I listened to the tape.
Mayor Suarez: Is that Ron Williams? We did? You mean, we were told of that?
At the hearing or by some...
Mr. Ron Williams: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: ... surreptitious document you stuck in our desk and hoped that
we wouldn't read?
Mr. Williams: We even went a step further, Mr. Mayor, and I am peeping around
the display here. You will recall that we also asked the awarding vendor to
state on the record that they would purchase an indemnity bond so that we
would be protected.
Mayor Suarez: Oh, that's the one?
Mr. Williams: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: Maybe, I didn't realize that we were doing that but the
purchase of the indemnity bond, I do remember that. All right. I think
though it's more advisable to try to resolve it right then and there, all
right? I don't know why we didn't just wait until today to hear the protest
and act on it.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, do I recall somewhere in the minutes that I made
the statement that they were not here, and if they weren't here, showed they
weren't interested? I think I made that suggestion.
Mr. Weiss: Yes. I listened to the tape this morning, Commissioner Plummer,
and it was actually...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, yes, you did.
Commissioner Plummer: Why weren't you here?
Ms. Weiss: Because we were... first of all, our bid protest was scheduled for
today. We were told by three members of your staff - this is before I was
retained - by three members of the Public... on three different occasions, by
members of the Public Works' staff, that this would not be considered at the
192 January 23, 1992
m
last meeting. And my clients, based upon the advice from your staff, did not
come here. And as a matter of fact, when my clients came to retain me, they
said, this bid hasn't been awarded, we were advised by the City staff that it
wouldn't be awarded. I did some inquiries and found out that you had awarded
it, and...
Commissioner Plummer: May I inquire? I assume you have the names of staff
members?
Mr. Weiss: It was three individual occasions, but I believe the staff person,
Mr...
Unidentified Speaker: Juan Ordonez, he told me and he told this gentleman
that...
Mayor Suarez: We need you on the mike.
Mr. Weiss: Juan Ordonez.
Commissioner Plummer: Is Ordonez here? That's you, sir? On the record, sir,
did you make that statement to them?
Mr. Juan Ordonez: No, sir. I didn't make that statement.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mr. Weiss: For your information, this is a major bid for my clients. If they
had not been told that statement, you could be darn sure... they are here...
they didn't go through this trouble and all of a sudden decide it was an
important bid. At least, their...
Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask another question. Mr. Ordonez, do you work
for us?
Mr. Ordonez: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: He works for you and Ron? Did you inform them, sir,
that that matter was going to be considered at the last meeting?
Mr. Ordonez: No, I didn't give him any information related to that, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: You didn't tell them that they in fact... that this
item would be considered at the Commission meeting?
Mr. Ordonez: No, no.
Commissioner Plummer: Even though you knew that they had filed a protest.
Mr. Ordonez: Well, the protest, it was not under my jurisdiction, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, then, let me ask this. Did you, Mr. Williams,
inform them that this matter would be discussed at the City Commission meeting
the following day? - after you received their protest.
193 January 23, 1992
4'
Aw"
Mr. Williams: I did not. Directly, I can question my staff, Commissioner
Plummer, to find out if someone...
Commissioner Plummer: So we have this...
Mr. Williams: I have not talked directly, myself, at all.
Commissioner Plummer: We have this telephone bidding procedure that one says
they did, and one says they did not. That's where I guess we are at.
A. Quinn Jones, Esq.: Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir.
Mr. Jones: May I?
Commissioner Plummer: Yes, surely.
Mr. Jones: At the time...
Commissioner Plummer: Were you on the extension?
Mr. Jones: Yes. (laughter) At the time this matter came up, presumably
before Mr. Weiss got involved, they were being represented by a lawyer by the
name of David L. Swimmer. Ms. Carmen Leon, in my office, who was the
assistant working with the Administration on this matter, informed Mr. Swimmer
that this matter would be coming up, this was on January 8, and I can't tell
you what happened, whether he conveyed that to his clients, whatever else, but
he was informed and he had different representation at that particular time.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. City Attorney, I appreciate what you say. The
problem that I have is that these gentlemen are on the record stating that
they were told on three different occasions by an employee of the City of
Miami that this matter was not going to come up, and the City employee is
saying that he never told them that. I've got a problem with that. I've got
a problem with that.
Mr. Weiss: For the record, Mayor Suarez, and Commission, pursuant to your
procedures, these things are supposed to be resolved at the same time. We
were given notice that our bid protest was going to be dealt with today. We
were formally given notice in writing by the City. And although I understand
the confusion, and I think it's very unfortunate, because certainly, we would
have liked to make this presentation. I think the City Attorney will tell you
that we are clearly within our rights. This is timely, and we have not waived
any rights, - and if you want to confirm that with the City Attorney, but I am
sure it's correct. As I indicated to you, you made a mistake last time, you
didn't have the proper information, and I'd like to take some time to give you
the proper information today. I want to stress the fact that in the event
that you award this bid to our clients, this job will be done on time, with no
delay. You awarded this contract two weeks ago to the other bidder. There
has been no work done. And I want to tell you that if it's awarded to my
client, people from SAC Construction will be there tomorrow morning from 7:00
a.m. working on this project. On January... last comment is, we don't need
any more mistakes in the Orange Bowl. Let's clear this up today and do it the
194 January 23, 1992
right way. On January 3rd, bids were received. Our protest was timely filed,
and we were notified of today's hearing. We've gone over what happened on
January 9th. It was contrary to your normal procedure. At the time you
awarded the contract, you asked the other contractor to post a bond. To our
knowledge, work has not stopped, I don't know whether that bond has been
posted. We understand that you are under time constraints and that you might
be legally protected from damage, but that's not the way the City of Miami
does business. You should do what is right, what is legal, and most of all,
Commissioner Dawkins, as you have brought up in the prior bid, you should do
what's safe. The basis of our protest is simple. That PDG, (Project
Development Group) which 1s the company that you awarded this to, does not
have the licenses that are required to do the work. They are not responsive,
and as a matter of law, their bid is null and void. PDG has an asbestos
removal license. I will show you on - does this pick up if I walk? On the
board in front of you, this one, shows what an asbestos contractor can do.
They can do removal encapsulation, or enclosure of asbestos. What do you have
to do to get an asbestos contractor's license? The bottom line of these
regulations is, you have to take about two weeks of courses and that's it.
There is no general contracting experience, no demolition experience, and no
heavy building experience required.
Mayor Suarez: No what experience? Building?
Mr. Weiss: No building experience required at all. Your staff has taken...
Mayor Suarez: So you could be an asbestos contractor in Florida, and not be a
GC (general contractor)?
Mr. Weiss: Yes, sir, absolutely. Your staff has taken the position that an
asbestos license is sufficient, because the demolition work also being done on
this contract is incidental to the asbestos work. Even if this was so, it is
not a correct conclusion. By analogy, their conclusion says that if I hire a
drywall contractor to come into my house to move a wall, and they have an
electrical outlet that they come in to, that since the moving of that
electrical outlet is incidental to the major work, that they don't need an
electrical permit. That's not the case. If I did that work in my house and a
drywall contractor moved that electrical outlet, I would be cited by the City
of Miami. Their argument is, that if you have an asbestos contracting
license, the moving of the slabs, and other things, which I will explain to
you, is incidental, and you don't need a license for that. That's just not
the case. Mr. Mayor, you asked a very perceptive question at the last
hearing. You said, "How can it be that asbestos removal costs seven hundred
and fifty-four thousand dollars ($754,000)?" and there was a lot of joking
about this and so forth. Mr. Mayor, it doesn't. This is a demolition
contract which costs about a half -a -million dollars, and an asbestos removal
contract which costs about two hundred -and -fifty thousand. And that's why the
price of this is so high. This is not just an asbestos removal contract.
Mayor Suarez: In fact, the asbestos removal is only made necessary by the
demolition.
Mr. Weiss: That's correct.
Mayor Suarez: It would otherwise, not be necessary at all.
195 January 23, 1992
4W
Mr. Weiss: That is exactly correct. The reason I went through the trouble of
making this, and if Jack, you would show them. If you've been to the Orange
Bowl, this plywood slab represents a slab of concrete. And you see them
there... and mounted on top of the concrete are these orange seats that we've
all enjoyed sitting on. Each one of these concrete slabs needs to be taken,
Jack -hammered away from the stadium, lifted in the air a hundred feet by a
crane, swung over the Orange Bowl, and dropped outside. Each one of these
slabs, members of the Commission, weighs one ton.
Mayor Suarez: That's more than a combined weight of this Commission.
Mr. Weiss: That's only when Commissioner De Yurre is on a diet.
Mayor Suarez: Well I really set you up for that one.
Mr. Weiss: I know that.
Mayor Suarez: You just lost yourself one vote, but go ahead.
Mr. Weiss: Our position is that a general contractor or demolition license
must be in place to do this work. For safety purposes, for City exposure, in
terms of one of these beams falling on someone or falling on the stadium and
doing destruction, and because it is, legally. I want to take a second and
explain...
Mayor Suarez: You're getting pretty wound up in this. Are you going to tell
us pretty soon why all these things that have to be done by an asbestos
contractor in this particular job, somehow cannot be done by the person that
we previously voted to award the contract to?
Mr. Weiss: They don't have a general contractor's license, sir.
Mayor Suarez: Well, I presume that's one argument, because you sort of hinted
at that, but I am going to hear from our administration on that issue. But
are you going to kind of like summarize pretty soon, or you're just getting
wound up now?
Commissioner Plummer: Well, can I ask a question please?
Mr. Weiss; Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, is the company who was the awardee present?
They are not, for the record.
Mayor Suarez: Remember that...
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mayor Suarez: ... at some point, counselor, we do defer to the judgement of
our staff, but we need to know somehow, what is in their recommendation
seriously wrong...
Mr. Weiss: Mr. Mayor.
196 January 23, 1992
46 4
Mayor Suarez: ... and you have given us some hint to what you are going to
argue on that, but please, don't make your entire case here, because...
Mr. Weiss: Mr. Mayor, I understand, but I am going to take some time with
your permission, I think it's the right thing to do. I need to go through
with you what's required in this contract. Number one, the seats, these
orange seats have to be unbolted from the concrete. Number two, jack -
hammered... and on here, sections need to be jack -hammered from this concrete
separating it from the Orange Bowl. Number three...
Mayor Suarez: I thought you told us all of that before. No? Go ahead.
Mr. Weiss: A steel hoop, which 1s being illustrated there by Julio, needs to
be with a blow torch taken out. A cable... holes need to be drilled, where we
have the number five, cable, steel cable needs to be brought up through those
hoops, lifted by a crane, put outside of the Orange Bowl. And all this needs
to be done in a way so it's not to damage what's left. This operation needs
to be done two thousand times under severe time pressure, under... pursuant to
your contract documents. This is an asbestos removal contract, yes, but it's
much more, it's major structural work. Our position is supported by several
people. First of all though, the time was short, we couldn't get written
opinions. The State of Florida agrees with our position, that the work that's
being performed here is outside the scope of what an asbestos licensed
contractor can do. Number two, the Dade... the chair of the Dade County
Construction Trades Qualifying Board, Mr. Bob Perry, has authorized us to tell
you the fact that it's his opinion that this work is beyond the scope of an
asbestos contractor. Three, and I'd like to introduce it into the record,
received a letter from the General Contractors' Association, which also
specifies that in this case, rigging of the loads is critical and should only
be done by trained, experienced people, under the supervision of a general
contractor. I'd like to... the City hired an engineering firm to give them
advice on this, Law Engineering. Law Engineering on January 8, 1992 wrote to
the City of Miami, Design Division, about this contract. And what they said
was, it is primarily an asbestos abatement contract, but they say, "other
trades will be necessary to properly execute the project." The contractor
that you've awarded has listed on his bid sheet, no other contractors, and he
possesses no other licenses. I attempted to call Law Engineering to discuss
with them what they meant by this, and to make sure my interpretation was
correct, but they were instructed by City staff, not to talk with me.
Mayor Suarez: That's the company that is...
Mr. Weiss: Hired by the City to be your...
Mayor Suarez: ... owned, or I mean, of which Andy Young is a principal?
Mr. Weiss: I don't know, sir.
Mayor Suarez: It's interesting a name to have for a company, Law Engineering.
Commissioner Plummer: How about Laws Engraving?
Mr. Weiss: Yes. Finally...
197 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Is it some guy's last name, Law? Mr. Law?
Mr. Weiss: LA Law. Finally, when you did the first phase of this...
Commissioner Plummer: Outlaw.
Mr. Weiss: ... you had a general contractor do it. What happened was, as
part of doing that work, he found some asbestos. So what this is, is a
demolition contract which you had originally done in Phase I, with a
complication of asbestos. And this project needs to be done by a general
contractor, and a demolition contractor, along with a certified asbestos
contractor. I'd like to call, just for a second, Larry Brill, who is a
structural engineer, practicing here in Miami. And I'd like to introduce into
the record, to the Clerk, his resume. Would you just state your name,
briefly.
Mr. Larry Brill: I am Larry Brill. I have the...
Mayor Suarez: We have the other one connected now, unless you want to step
away from it. We use the... OK.
Mr. Brill: Larry Brill, I have a consulting engineering firm in Coral Gables.
We've been in Coral Gables for twenty-seven years. I have thirty-five years
experience. I've worked on stadiums similar, not quite of the scope of the
Orange Bowl, but I've done work at Lockhard, I was called in by St. Lucie
County to oversee the Met Stadium when they built it two years ago. On this
particular contract, I was asked my opinion on it, and I told them that it is
a contract that at the very least, should have a demolition contractor and an
asbestos abatement contract. As you can see from the photograph there on the
right, that once you start to remove these panels, you leave a very, very
dangerous safety problem. Because you have no... you have to have people that
are experienced, because you have no protection. You have to know what you're
doing. And this takes skilled help. They would be working with a crane,
welding, they have to cut loose the welding of the panels to the steel. So,
in my opinion, that this is primarily a demolition project with asbestos
abatement. We have done similar work at the airport where we were working
with wood. As you can see in that particular picture, you're going to be
lifting these concrete pieces, a hundred feet over the stadium to bring them
down. And when they are brought down to the ground, they are broken up and
put into dumpsters. And that's the primary part of the asbestos abatement
contract. He does two primary things. He drills the holes, because of the
asbestos below, to protect from that, and then number two, he takes care of
the panels when they reach the ground. But all the other work before that is
done by the demolition contractor, or the general contractor, who can do both.
Mr. Weiss: The bottom line here, and I'll finish up here, Mr. Mayor, is that
this project originally involved removing those structural elements from the
Orange Bowl. And it still does. Your own engineering company, hired by the
City, has told you of the fact that other trades are required to do this work.
The bid submitted by PDG that you awarded this contract to, they have an
asbestos license, and have listed no other subcontractors to do this other
work. Had they said, PDG, and listed a demolition contractor, no problem,
you're covered. But they didn't do it, and legally, they are precluded from
198 January 23, 1992
using other bidders. Please correct this error. We will do this job on time,
we will do it safely, and we will do it legally. PDG does not have the
licenses required for the work. You should declare them nonresponsive, making
the contract you signed with them null and void, and award SAC this work.
We'll be glad to answer any questions. The other board that's before you is a
copy of your bid specifications where it specifies that we have to cut the
bleachers, crane -lift from the structure, so there would be no question about
the fact that the work I am describing is what's required under this
contract. Jack, is there anything you would like to add?
Mr. Jack Janine: I think that I'd just like to address...
Mr. Weiss: Here, Jack.
Mr. Jack Jamme: My name is Jack Jamme, I am vice president,
secretary/treasurer of SAC Construction. I've been a general contractor for
fifteen years, I've been involved in several high rise projects, including
tearing down the Lindsay Hopkins building. It is a dangerous thing to have a
man get hurt on a building of this nature. The Florida Licensing Board, which
I went four years to college, and took a very difficult test to become a
general contractor, was for a good reason. It's for the safety of the public.
And for the safety of public, rules are made. This project, if it is done by
PDG, will be stopped, because we are prepared to go in front of the Licensing
Board, which Bob Perry is the head of, and get a decision on the 20th. You
need to use licensed contractors, it's critical of licensed contractors' work
on all projects in the City of Miami, private and public. We feel that we are
the lowest responsive bidder to do this job properly, on time, and safely.
Thank you.
Mayor Suarez: What board is he telling us that he is going to challenge the
credentials of the company that we've previously awarded this contract to?
Mr. Weiss: The issue of contractors' licenses is dealt with by the Dade
Country Construction Trades Qualifying Board, Division 'A.' And that would be
the one...
Mayor Suarez: Is that under State DPR?
Mr. Weiss: That's under County regulations, and they are...
Mayor Suarez: Or, on the County's regulatory scheme. And there is a
complaint filed by him that is going to be decided in the forum on the 20th of
this month?
Mr. Weiss: Well, we have not filed a formal complaint. We contacted the
chairman of that board, and said, you know, basically asked him, you know,
what his opinion was. I've told you what his opinion was. We've spoken
actually to several other members of the board, unofficially, who have exactly
the same opinion...
Mayor Suarez: All right.
Mr. Weiss: ... and that would be one of our remedies, although I don't want
to get into that.
199 January 23, 1992
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Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Williams.
Mr. Williams: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Is there any truth to the fact that PDG has a GC
license in-house?
Mr. Williams: That is true, Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: Then what are we arguing about?
Mr. Williams: I am not certain. Not only do they have a qualified GC on
staff, but I would further refer to the letter from Law Engineering, which is
a company hired as a consultant on this and other projects.
Commissioner Plummer: I didn't ask you to editorialize. I asked you a
question.
Mr. Williams: The answer is yes, sir.
Mr. Weiss: May I respond?
Commissioner Plummer: Sure.
Mr. Weiss: Commissioner Plummer, the contractor... the only license the
contractor put on his bid, which he is required to follow, is the specialty
contractor's license. He may have a general contractor in-house, but that
license does not belong to the company. And he is not legally allowed to do
this work under your bid. You're not hiring that person, you can't have that
person responsible. And I believe that your attorneys will tell you -
although I don't know, if I was your attorney, I would tell you - that they
have to bid and show all the requisite licenses, and they have shown no
subcontractors, and that general contractor's license is not... he is not
qualified for this company. Now, if you want to hire that guy to do the work,
well, that's fine, he has a license. But PDG does not register as a general
contractor in the State of Florida, and the fact that they have a doctor, or a
lawyer, or a general contractor, does not make them legally qualified to do
this job.
Mr. Williams: I don't think on this job we need doctors, lawyers, or
carpenters either.
Mayor Suarez: We particularly don't need too many lawyers.
Mr. Williams: Exactly. And the point is...
Mayor Suarez: A few doctors, who knows?
Mr. Williams: ... our bid document asked for a licensed asbestos abatement
contractor.
Mr. Weiss: That is not true, sir. That is not correct.
200 January 23, 1992
Mr. Williams: It did not ask for doctors, lawyers, and carpenters either.
And that's what the gentleman provided us with.
Mayor Suarez: Although, this person...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I think he makes a good point. Is in fact the
general contractor on their staff liable if something goes wrong?
Mr. Odio: May I put in this record this, Commissioner?
Commissioner Plummer: Can I get an answer to my question?
Mr. Odio: I'm sorry. Yes, go ahead, Ron.
Mayor Suarez: If something goes wrong with...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I'll ask the City Attorney. Is, under the
understanding of this bidding procedure, they are indicating they have a
general contractor. Under this bid, is he liable for any problems that occur
on this job?
Mr. Jones: The firm would be liable. As a general contractor in the way as I
understand it, he is not an independent contractor. He is part of the staff.
Then obviously, the corporation, the corporate entity would be responsible.
Commissioner Plummer: If in fact something goes wrong, would his general
contracting license be in jeopardy?
Mr. Jones: I couldn't answer that. I can only make an assumption. It
probably would be. I don't know.
Commissioner Plummer: So you are saying the general contractor they have on
staff, is full, faith, and credit of the total company?
Mr. Jones: I would assume so, if that's the arrangement.
Commissioner Plummer: I can't go on assumptions.
Mr. Jones: Mr. Plummer, I can only answer you based on what you're posing
your questions. I don't know what relationship, other than the fact, that I
have been informed that he is part of the staff, and I would assume, taking
that in consideration, that the corporation would bear full responsibility for
any liabilities, for negligence on his part, or any other of the employees.
Mr. Weiss: Mr. Mayor, he is not the qualifier on behalf of that corporation.
That corporation has no legal authority to do business under that general
contractor's license. That is the law. You will ask any engineer here, ask
Mr. Brill, they will tell you that the only way that general contractor's
license can be used by that corporation, and hold that corporation legally
responsible, is if he is the qualifying agent for that corporation, and he is
not. We have checked the public records, we have checked the State records,
and he is not the legal qualifying agent.
201 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Yes, my guess is that the liability for the asbestos removal
portion would fall on, at least directly and primarily, on the asbestos
contractor under State law, and the liability for anything having to do with
what the law requires to have a general contractor for, would in fact, fall
under that general contractor to the extent that his license was used to pull
any permits, or otherwise involved in that work. I don't know, although you
have a brilliant presentation here, that this Commission is able to divide all
of it that way, and to be assured... and from the City Attorney's answer, to
be assured as to who would be, at least, secondarily, liable, or liable as
part of the joint venture that they apparently have, or the partnership, or
the involvement of the general contractor, but we do have at least one letter
from our own advisor, consultant, that says that other contractors will be
required, and it is anticipated that they may have some involvement here. So,
it's not an easy question that you pose, and I guess, what we have to be
satisfied of, is that we have the right professionals to carry out the work
that we have put out for bids, and for that, I think, at least, for myself, I
may have to defer it to our own staff, but maybe, the other Commissioners.
Mr. Weiss: Mr. Mayor, if I could just add. If you look at the sheet in the
top corner, I'm sorry it's not blown up larger, there is no general contractor
listed as a subcontractor. There is no other license, and to correct Mr.
Williams, the bid specifically says, they have got to hold a valid certificate
of competency in whatever trades are required. It does not specify a
certificate of competency just in asbestos removal. And I beg you to look
again at the letter from your own engineering firm, that tells you that other
trades are required. You are on notice.
Mayor Suarez: OK, Vice Mayor Alonso.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, I have a question to ask from the staff. In any
other type of construction, private building, would we allow that an asbestos
company handle a type of job as this?
Mr. Williams: Let me defer, Vice Mayor, to the City's building official who
obviously, we consulted in making these determinations.
Mr. Santiago Jorge -Ventura: My name is Santiago Jorge -Ventura. My position,
deputy director of the Planning Building & Zoning and Chief Building Official.
Yes, in another kind of building like this one, they use asbestos and they
apply asbestos by spraying the material. In this case, and we separate the
contractor. The contractor that comes to remove the asbestos is a different
contractor. He removes the asbestos, and later, the demolition contractor
comes to demolish the building. It is a situation that we are dealing with
every day. In this specific project, you have the decking where the bleachers
are over there, and they pour the concrete slab that is the seating on the top
of the form board made by the asbestos, the asbestos panel. And they put
everything together. What happens, that the contractor when they come over
here, they have to remove everything. I will agree with them if they come
over here and they remove the asbestos first, and later, they go and they
remove the slab. But in this case, they remove everything together. And it
is only necessary, asbestos contractor to remove the material. It's my
opinion.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK.
202 January 23, 1992
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11
Commissioner Plummer: So do I understand you to say what, sir?
Vice Mayor Alonso: That the asbestos company is allowed to do this.
Mr. Jorge -Ventura: What I said... the question was, if this...
Commissioner Plummer: That they've got to have a GC to or they don't have to
have a GC?
Mr. Jorge -Ventura: No, I'm not answering the question if he is a general
contractor or if he is not a general contractor. If you are going...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, sir...
Mr. Jorge -Ventura: Commissioner, if you are going to remove the asbestos,
only the asbestos, you need that kind of licensing. If you are going to do a
demolition, separate, you need a GC. But in this case, the asbestos and the
concrete are together, and they have to remove everything at the same time.
And we request only the first license, to be an asbestos contractor remover.
Commissioner Plummer: So, then your answer is, you don't feel that a GC is
necessary?
Mr. Jorge -Ventura: No. In this type of construction...
Mr. Weiss: May I ask him...
Mr. Jorge -Ventura: ... in this type of construction, or kind of construction.
Mayor Suarez: What happens... let me just... one follow up and he's... you've
explained brilliantly everything up to the point, I think, at which the slabs
are removed, what happens after that with the slabs?
Mr. Jorge -Ventura: What happens if... only the slab, they need a general
contractor.
Mayor Suarez: No, after that what happens to the slabs at the end of this
whole process? Maybe...
Mr. Ordonez: It has to be encapsulated.
Mr. Williams: Right.
Mayor Suarez: They are somehow, disposed of, right?
Mr. Jorge -Ventura: Disposed of, yes.
Mr. Weiss: Then the asbestos contractor takes over. Once they are outside
the Orange Bowl, they have to be encapsulated in plastic, and there is no
problem.
Mr. Weiss: Could I ask Mr. Ventura some questions?
203 January 23, 1992
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Commissioner Dawkins: And new slabs are poured, or these slabs are put back?
I don't know what we're talking...
Ms. Carter: And the only one that can remove that and handle that are
asbestos contractors.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, then as long as I got that far, the logical next question
is Commissioner Dawkins, are they then put back?
Mr. Odio: Let me...
Mr. Weiss: These slabs are going to be destroyed, sir.
Mr. Odio: No, no, sir. Commissioner...
Mayor Suarez: All right.
Commissioner Dawkins: Beg your pardon?
Commissioner Plummer: No, we are taking them JRS.
Mr. Weiss: Taking them out and put them in the land fill.
Mr. Odio: Commissioner...
Mayor Suarez: Right. So, they are...
Commissioner Dawkins: And all of these slabs are taken out and destroyed.
Mr. Weiss: Put in the land fill.
Commissioner Dawkins: And new slabs are put in.
Mr. Weiss: New ones put in, yes, sir.
Mayor Suarez: You could argue that this is not really...
Mr. Odio: Commissioner...
Mayor Suarez: ... what people commonly think of as demolition at all, it's
sort of removal of slabs, and then, you need the expert to know how to handle
them and how to remove them so that there would be no asbestos contamination
for the workers, because we found out before, in addition to finding out that
the main asbestos problem comes from the work that is being done, which causes
the contamination to reach individuals, that the only individuals that it
typically... we are worried about are the workers in this process, so that's
where the experts come in, to make sure that they are...
Mr. Weiss: And that's why, Mr. Mayor, our asbestos contractor who is the one
that is currently doing the work in the Orange... our subcontractor, is
involved in all of the phases of this, making sure that the material is
prepared. Could I ask...?
204 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: I, frankly think that, you know, as a lay person that there is
not really much demolition here, I mean, it's sort of lifting... setting up
and lifting some concrete slabs that weigh a ton,...
Mr. Weiss: Mr. Mayor, the issue...
Mayor Suarez: ... that's not... by building materials, that's not a huge
amount of weight.
Mr. Weiss: The issue, Mr. Mayor, 1s not only the lifting, the issue is
rigging these things properly so that the crane can pick them up, jack -
hammering them out of the Orange Bowl, using a welding torch, and Mr. Mayor,
that's not work that the asbestos contractor is qualified to do. The issue
here, I mean, anybody can hire a crane. The issue on these slabs, which are a
ton a piece, is how you rig them up properly, and that work as the expert has
testified...
Mayor Suarez: Well, you've given us such a great course here, all they have
to do is follow the proceedings here and they will do it exactly correctly.
Mr. Weiss: Pardon?
Mayor Suarez: You've done such a great job of explaining how to do it, all
they have to do is follow your instructions here today, and they will do it
exactly right.
Mr. Weiss: And I'm going to do it, get an asbestos...
Mayor Suarez: The only other thing you have to worry about is make sure there
is nobody underneath there when they unload them.
Mr. Weiss: Yes, it is best if you have it done by an asbestos contractor.
Mayor Suarez: All right, Commissioners, anything further from the staff? Any
questions of the staff?
Mr. Weiss: I'd just like to stress again that you're authorizing someone...
you've authorized somebody with two weeks training to lift up these slabs one
hundred feet over the Orange Bowl. If one of them drops, you can ask your own
City Attorney, one of these drops, if someone gets hurt... you're leaving big,
gaping open holes in the Orange Bowl, these are structural elements of the
Orange Bowl that you're lifting out and you're creating an unsafe situation
that is not legally proper. I really would ask you to reconsider your
decision last week in awarding.
Mayor Suarez: Well, the Orange Bowl is not in use, but I, for whatever it's
worth, sure hope that there is nobody anywhere under those...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Of course.
Mayor Suarez: ... as they are being lifted and put over the side, just in
case.
Mr. Weiss: You know, it depends...
205 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Anyhow...
Commissioner Plummer: Can we put the painting contractor there? (LAUGHTER)
Mr. Weiss: Put the... I also want to tell you one other thing which is...
Commissioner Plummer: We'll get the truth.
Mr. Weiss: ... the reason that the general contractor needs to do this work
is that, if this work is done wrong by the asbestos contractor, the steel
elements that are going to be left, if those are hit by a jackhammer, if those
are torched improperly... he has no experience and no expertise in doing that
work. And you knock out one of those, you know, you certainly not going to be
on your schedule.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Suarez: Yes, Madam Vice Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... for myself, at this point, where we are today, I am
not certain...
Commissioner Plummer: A hell of a day.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... how it will change anything, and I will have to
practically go along with the recommendation of staff. But had I been given
this information at the last Commission meeting, I would have gone with this
company rather than with the other company.
Mr. Weiss: Commissioner Alonso, no work has been done. If they don't, if
this Commission determines that they don't have the valid licenses, then the
award is null and void, and you can make that decision today. Do the right
thing. There is no liability to the City for doing this. You make a decision
that they did not comply, they were not responsive, as a matter of law, they
are not responsive. You have the opportunity to do the right thing today
rather than two weeks from now, having some embarrassing incident where Dade
County, or somebody else rules that the City is lifting one ton pieces by...
with an unlicensed contractor. We don't need that here. Make the right
decision today.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, what is the difference in the two bids,
dollar -wise?
Mr. Williams: Approximately ninety thousand dollars ($90,000) Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: And the total bid, what was the projected cost?
INAUDIBLE COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD.
Commissioner Plummer: So the question is, is it worth ninety thousand dollars
to get a GC on the job? That's really the question.
206 January 23, 1992
;
Mr. Weiss: Commissioner Plummer, with all due respect, I will honestly tell
you, and, you know, I don't... I really don't think that this job will be
allowed to proceed with the contractor, and speaking of time frames, I have
-f been told by the chairman of the Construction Trade Qualifying Board that -
=; you know, you know those people well - that this job will not be allowed to
proceed.
Commissioner Dawkins: You know, so that's why I am ready...
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner Dawkins, yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... I am ready to move this. OK? You said the job
will be stopped because the people can't do it. Let's award it, let them stop
it, and let's go on and let these other people do it, you know. You've
already told me that you've been informed that if the other company starts to
work, they are going to be denied the right to continue the job. Is that a
correct statement?
Mr. Weiss: We've been told that by the chairman of the Dade County Board.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right. So now, let's go... I mean...
Mr. Weiss: Commissioner, that's not a way for this City to do business. It's
the wrong decision you made last time, and to put it off to Dade County, I
can't believe you guys are deferring to Dade County on anything.
Commissioner Dawkins: Well you shouldn't have brought it here and tell me
what Dade County would do. You should have just come here and appeal to me,
and tell me, this is what the City of Miami should do.
Mr. Weiss: I'm trying to tell you that.
Commissioner Dawkins: You shouldn't come to me and tell me and tell me that
the County could do this, but naturally, I'm going to put it on the County so
that if the guy sue, he will sue the County.
Mr. Weiss: He won't sue the County, sir.
Mr. Williams: In all due respect, the City of Miami's building official that
takes care of these matters every day on your behalf, has advised you of
that... the recommended company and the type of company is the company should
be licensed to do this, all right? I don't know what Dade County thinks
differently about that?
Mr. Weiss: Could I ask Mr. Ventura some questions, Mr. Mayor?
Commissioner Plummer: It's been a hell of a day.
Mr. Weiss: Mr. Ventura.
Mayor Suarez: All right, for a last line of questioning, please counselor.
Mr. Weiss: If an asbestos contractor came in to do jack -hammering of slabs,
to hook them up with cranes, and to 1 i ft them out of the Orange Bowl , would
you issue him a permit to do that work? - With no asbestos?
207 January 23, 1992
Mr. Ventura: With no asbestos?
Mr. Weiss: Yes, sir.
Mr. Ventura: I would give it to the GC.
Mr. Weiss: You would give it to a GC?
Mr. Ventura: Yes. But in this case, like I talked to you from the beginning,
I will agree with you, but in this case, I know, because I was here. Public
Works inspects over there. And I did the inspection over there, and I know
the seating that they did over there, and they have a panel of asbestos that
it was poured together with the decking...
Mr. Weiss: Right.
Mr. Ventura: ... and you separate the two materials.
Mr. Weiss: I understand that, but how is a... why would you give it to a GC
if there was no asbestos involved? - Because he is not qualified to do the
work.
Mr. Ventura: But this isn't qualified for asbestos, and the principal thing
that you have over there, is asbestos.
Mr. Weiss: What about the Jack -hammering, what about the crane, what about
the lifting?
Mr. Ventura: Well, it's the same tool that another contractor, they use. I
think that you cannot take the definition about one contractor to another one,
about, to use their tools.
Mr. Weiss: You're saying that an asbestos contractor is qualified to lift
these beams? Then an asbestos contractor could come in and lift the beams
without asbestos.
Mr. Ventura: I think... my opinion, and I gave it you, my opinion. We are
involved in the removal of asbestos and the principal material over there is
asbestos. And that person is licensed, and I don't see any problem.
Mr. Weiss: With all due respect, Commissioners, the State disagrees with Mr.
Ventura, the County disagrees with Mr. Ventura, an expert witness that you
have heard today, and your own engineering company, has put you on notice that
other trades are required. How can you overlook?
Commissioner Plummer: But Richard, it doesn't when it says, others trades, it
doesn't say other trades have to be a GC.
Mr. Weiss: It does... it says any other... Commissioner, you're right, you
could have been a demolition contractor, I agree. If they had listed on that
sheet, demolition contractor number XYZ442, I would not be here today. But
other trades means other trades, and they didn't list any other trades, and
that was their problem. If they had subcontracted, no problem. But they
208 January 23, 1992
didn't, and they can't do it now because it's different than the bid that they
submitted. They can't change the bid after it's been submitted. They could
have done it, fine, but they didn't. And that's not the way this game is
played. You submit your bid, you put down your subcontractors, and that's it.
Commissioner Plummer: Who did you use as a sub for the asbestos removal?
Mr. Weiss: The same one, the minority owned firm, owned by local people who
are doing work in the Orange Bowl now, an asbestos subcontractor.
Commissioner Plummer: They are the general contractor, as well as...?
Mr. Weiss: No, I have... the general contractor is SAC..
Commissioner Plummer: Who is the general contractor?
Mr. Weiss: The general 1s SAC Construction, and they have listed on their
bid, subcontractor, a locally owned minority asbestos subcontracting firm.
And they were the one who did phase 1 at the Orange Bowl. Commissioner
Alonso, I really think that you have the opportunity today to do what's right.
There is nothing changed from last week...
Mayor Suarez: All right.
Mr. Weiss: ... you can do what's right.
Mayor Suarez: You have made a brilliant exposition.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, he did.
' Mayor Suarez: You have made the best illustrated technical exposition by a
lawyer...
Commissioner Plummer: Let me...
Mayor Suarez: ... in my tenure here, and I hope you get paid well.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, is it a true...
Mayor Suarez: ... but I have to defer them on my staff myself.
Commissioner Plummer: ... is it a true statement that in prior work that was
being done you required a general contractor?
Mr. Odio: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: In this same kind of work?
Mr. Odio: In the slab removal? Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Okay. That was the previous, that was Phase I,
correct?
209 January 23, 1992
Mr. Odio: On the... When we removed the joists and the slabs, did we use a
GC?
Commissioner Plummer: Was is required, is what I'm asking.
Mr. Juan Ordonez: No, it was them, the ones who required the presence of
asbestos abatement contractor.
Commissioner Plummer: That's not my question, sir. When you did the work
before, I understand part of this was done in Phase I, did you require a
general contractor at that time?
Mr. Odio: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Then my question has to be, if you required it at that
time, why aren't you requiring it now? I assume that you felt that when you
did it before, you were justified in the need.
Mr. Odio: No. What happened is when... we had to stop the GC work because we
discovered asbestos and we were informed immediately that you have asbestos
here, you must use a licensed asbestos abatement removal whatever they call
it.
Mr. Lee: And we hired Mr. Otazo.
Commissioner Plummer: All right. Excuse me. If, in fact, you did not find
the asbestos, you did require a GC for the removal.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Odio: We would have...
Commissioner Plummer: You're still, excuse me, sir.
Mr. Odio: Yeah. Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: You're still doing the removal but now it has asbestos.
Mr. Odio: No, see, see...
Commissioner Plummer: The primary purpose of my inquiry is the safety of the
removal of a one ton slab.
Mr. Odio: Yeah, but that's not what we're dealing here with. We're dealing
with a one ton slab full of asbestos which is more asbestos than... and that's
what we have been told, that's what the building official has looked at, that
you're...
Commissioner Plummer: You're missing my point.
Mr. Odio: Okay, maybe I am.
Commissioner Plummer: My point is simply that when you required the work
without asbestos, forget the asbestos, that you required a general contractor
to do that work.
210 January 23, 1992
Mr. Odio: Yeah, you go to a normal contractor.
Commissioner Plummer: Now, you're not... because you found a deterioration of
asbestos...
Mr. Odio: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: ... you don't feel that it's necessary to use a general
contractor...
Mr. Odio: We feel that it's...
Commissioner Plummer: ... and that's where I'm lost, sir.
Mr. Odio: Yeah, we're...
Mr. Lee: You can't. You can't, Commissioner. Let me explain. When we
started with a GC, once we discovered asbestos, that we had the asbestos
problem, DERM (Department of Environmental Resources Management) said you have
to use an asbestos...
Commissioner Plummer: I understand that, Wally.
Mr. Lee: ... and we hired, in fact we hired their sub to finish that part of
the demolition.
Commissioner Plummer: You know, maybe I'm not expressing myself.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You're making yourself clear.
Commissioner Plummer: What I'm trying to say to you, sir, is that when you
did the initial work, not knowing about the asbestos, you felt it necessary to
use a general contractor to remove the slabs.
Mr. Odio: Right.
Mr. Lee: In addition...
Commissioner Plummer: Now you're still removing the slabs with asbestos. Why
wouldn't you require a general contractor, as well as a company for asbestos?
I don't understand. If it was necessary in the inception to use a GC, okay,
now just because you've got an element in there that you're also going to
address, why wouldn't you require a GC to still remove the slabs?
Mr. Odio; Okay, if we hire a GC, he in turn would have to turn around and
hire them to do their work.
Mr. Weiss: We have a GC...
Mr. Odio: And then we're paying the GC to do nothing while the sub is doing
the removal of the asbestos, which is all the slabs. That's why. And you
were complaining about paying seven hundred and fifty thousand, we're paying
another hundred thousand to pay the GC just to be there, because the work will
have to be done by the asbestos removal company.
211 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: In the company that you have awarded the contract to,
is the GC on staff, licensed on the job?
Mr. Weiss: No, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Just because he's in-house doesn't mean he's going to
be working on this project.
Mr. Williams: Well, the bid specs...
Vice Mayor Alonso: They have not listed any GC.
Commissioner Plummer: They claim they have one in staff, in-house. I
understand that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: It's not listed.
Mr. Odio: You want me to read to the record what we're requiring them to have
there in place? They have to maintain a site superintendent, one head foreman
meeting training requirements of Florida Statute 455... you can read these...
whole pages of requirements of people they must have on staff.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm trying to avoid them stopping the project.
Mr. Odio: I don't believe they can.
Commissioner Plummer: Is the GC, which they're saying they're going to go
before this Board to stop this project predicating it on not having a GC. I'm
asking you, sir, if the company you selected has a GC with his license
attached...
Mr. Odio: Yes, they do have a GC.
Commissioner Plummer: ... to this job which would preclude them going before
a board and stopping this project?
Mr. Weiss: No, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: That's what I'm asking you, sir.
Mr. Weiss: It's not included in the bid, Commissioner Plummer, not included
in the bid.
Commissioner Plummer: Please, Richard...
Mr. Weiss: Okay.
Commissioner Plummer: I love you dearly, but I don't pay you.
Mr. Weiss: All right.
Mayor Suarez: All right.
212 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Now, can I get an answer?
Mr. Williams: The specification requires that there be on -site supervision,
Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: On site by who?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Not the answer.
Mr. Williams: On site by the required, qualified persons. One...
Commissioner Plummer: Ron, look, you're not... somebody's not listening to
me.
Mr. Williams: One, Commissioner,...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Let me rephrase it. They're saying that
they're going to go before the Board solely on the idea that there is not a
general contractor and that this job, according to that Board, requires a
general contractor. You're saying there's a general contractor that this
company has in house. Is his license attached to this job so that their
argument is null and void? That's what I'm asking.
Mr. Williams: Our building official is telling us that their argument is null
and void without the GC, ConTnissioner.
Mr. Odio: Let me reply to your question, Commissioner Plummer.
Mr. Williams: The answer to your question is no.
Mr. Odio: We did not require them to have a GC on location. We did not.
Commissioner Plummer: So then if they are right...
Mr. Odio: They're not.
Commissioner Plummer: ... excuse me, if they are right, this project is going
to be held up until hell freezes over.
Mr. Odio: I don't believe so. I have the...
Mr. Weiss: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Can you get the original company to get their GC in-
house, not as a subcontractor, to tie his license to this job?
Mr. Weiss: Can't do it, sir. Legally.
Mr. Ordonez: Let me give you an explanation, sir.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You can't?
Mr. Weiss: You can't do it under the bid. You got to bid it.
213 January 23, 1992
6
Commissioner Plummer: You understand what I'm trying to...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, I do., of course.
Mr. Ordonez: ... When we found the asbestos in the prior phase and we bring
on board the asbestos abatement contractor, what we did is that the general
contractor has to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) because once he found the asbestos, it
falls under the asbestos abatement contractor, the whole responsibility.
Nobody else can get to the area because the area is closed off for the
asbestos abatement contractor.
Mr. Williams: It's closed off to dentists, doctors, and carpenters...
Mr. Weiss: We have your...
Mr. Ordonez: Everybody. Everybody.
Mr. Weiss: This is the gentlemen who is your asbestos abatement subcontractor
on Phase I. Let him explain to you what he is doing.
Mr. Julio Otazo: For the record, my name is Julio Otazo. I'm the Vice
President of MCO Environmental. We were called at...
Mayor Suarez: Wait a minute. Do you want to hear this?
Commissioner Plummer: I'm trying to read what he's giving me and listen
and...
Mr. Otazo: I'm trying to clarify, sir...
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait. And I'm...
Commissioner Plummer: All right, I'll stop reading.
Mayor Suarez: ... chairing this Commission, so far.
Commissioner Plummer: Who is he and what's he going to tell me?
Mayor Suarez: He, I guess, is going to be the person actually doing most of
this, if they were awarded the contract.
Commissioner Plummer: Well...
Mr. Weiss: He's also the one doing the work now in the Orange Bowl as a
subcontractor to your general contractor, right now, in the Orange Bowl.
Mayor Suarez: That's a nice editorial. I don't know what...
Mr. Ordonez: No, that statement is not right.
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I don't know what further need
we have of going more into detail on this. It's not going to make me an
expert at the end of the whole process.
214 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: I got to tell you, Mr. Mayor, this has been one hell of
a day.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I know.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: I can't ever remember in twenty-two years where we had
I said this, no he didn't, yes he did.
Mayor Suarez: How much farther do you want to go into this...
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, 1 don't to go any further than necessary.
Mayor Suarez: ... before you decide whether you've heard enough to decide?
Commissioner Plummer: I didn't ask for this gentleman to speak.
Mayor Suarez: All right, fine.
Commissioner Plummer: I didn't ask for him.
Mayor Suarez: That's why I was asking because if he's not... I'm inclined to
close this hearing and just decide. I've stated that I'm going to have to
defer to the judgment of the staff. I mean, if there were something here that
was a smoking gun or something, I could see being concerned about it. I
don't... It's not really much of a demolition. It's more like a removal of
one ton planks of concrete and then the process of encapsulating and
protecting in the final disposition the general public and everybody else from
the asbestos and, in the process, protecting the workers. That seems to be
the gist of the contract that is awarded. And yes, of course, the people have
to worry about all the... doing correctly all of the things that you said that
might damage the remaining structure, but I, you know, I just don't see...
Mr. Weiss: Mr. Mayor, what more of a smoking gun could you want than a letter
from your own engineering company saying that other trades are required and
what more...
Mayor Suarez: And I'm convinced that they will use other trades as required.
Mr. Weiss: They can't, under the bid, legally. Your attorney will tell you.
Mayor Suarez: All right. I think they can and will. They have a general
contractor, apparently, on staff. And I think they've even... Our staff has
even said that. Commissioners.
Commissioner De Yurre: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner De Yurre: Just to analyze this. Let's say that they are right.
Are we protected, Mr. City Attorney, with the indemnity bond that the group
that was awarded...
215
January 23, 1992
Mr. Jones: Yeah, that was...
Commissioner De Yurre: ... the job...
Commissioner Plummer: That will be absolutely no problem.
Mr. Jones: Commissioner. Yeah, that was the whole purpose of requiring the
awardee to post that bond in the event that the unsuccessful bidder decided
a' that they wanted to forward and file whatever legal... address whatever legal
-�' recourse they might be entitled to, that we would be indemnified.
�} Commissioner De Yurre: Is that in place?
Mr. Lee: We have not signed the contract yet, Commissioner, so it will be in
place when the...
Mr. Jones: No, no, no, no, no. He's asking whether the indemnity bond is in
place.
Mr. Lee: Oh. No, sir, not until the contract is signed.
Mr. Weiss: And the indemnity bond would not indemnify you...
Commissioner De Yurre: Excuse me.
Mr. Weiss: Sorry.
Commissioner De Yurre: Now, where are we legally, Mr. City Attorney, if this
contract has not been signed at this point in time? The indemnity bond has
not been placed. Where do we stand legally as far as rescinding our action of
the last Commission meeting?
Mr. Jones: Legally, your action should, would stay as is. I'd like to also
point out if this particular group feels that it's aggrieved, you've heard the
City's building official's determination that, in his opinion, what was
required by the RFP to do this particular work was an asbestos contractor.
The recourse that this company must take if it feels that it's aggrieved would
be to file an appeal before the Dade County Board of Rules and Appeals and let
the chips fly where they may. But I think that the action you've taken,
especially the last meeting, was based on staff's recommendation and it should
stand.
Commissioner De Yurre: Okay, now, if we reject the bid... I don't think
you've answered my question. If we reject, or if we reverse our action of two
weeks ago, nothing has been signed, the indemnity bond is not in place, where
would that put us legally?
i
Commissioner Plummer: Ninety -thousand dollars higher.
{ Commissioner De Yurre: Aside from that. I'm talking about legally.
{ Mr. Jones: Well, aside from... At this point, I don't think that you can
rescind the award that you've made at this point. And, of course, if you
should decide to do that, and of course you risk the potential of legal action
being taken from the other side.
216 January 23, 1992
Commissioner De Yurre: So then if we were to rescind our action and award it
to this group right here, the protection of the indemnity bond that we would
have had if they would have sued...
Mr. Jones: Would be removed.
Commissioner De Yurre: ... they would have been made whole, then we have that
exposure.
Mr. Jones: Would be removed.
Commissioner De Yurre: So, theoretically speaking, if we maintain our action,
sustain it, and they sue and they win, we're still protected.
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner De Yurre: Okay. Now...
Mr. Jones: I might add, too, that because, in fact, they were and your
decision was based on the fact that not only were they the lowest bid, they
were the most, they were the most responsible and responsive bidder. So, I
don't think, and I know that you can't at this point, go back and rescind that
award without suffering the consequences as the result of doing that action.
Commissioner De Yurre: Okay, that clears that end. Now, the only other
question that I have, I think, is the one that J. L. had a few moments ago.
And I have to pose it in this fashion. Project Development Group, Inc., which
is the asbestos removing company that got the award at the last meeting, had
there been no asbestos, could they have bid it and have been awarded the
removal in this job that we have right here?
Mr. Ordonez: Repeat your question, please.
Commissioner De Yurre: If there was no asbestos, could Project Development
Group, Inc. have bid on this work and have been awarded the viork, being the
lowest bidder?
Mr. Ordonez: No. No.
Commissioner De Yurre: Why not?
Mr. Ordonez: Well, it is a different matter...
Commissioner Plummer: They were already awarded.
Mr. Odio: Let me tell you why not. Excuse me.
Commissioner De Yurre: No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying if there was no
asbestos.
Mr. Odio: The building official told us that if there is no asbestos, you
have to go with a GC.
217 January 23, 1992
Mr. Ordonez: Yes.
Mr. Odio: If there is asbestos, you have to go with an asbestos removal firm.
That's the building official ruling. That's why.
Mr. Ordonez: Now let me make a clarification for the records.
Commissioner Dawkins: What building department?
Mr. Odio: City of Miami.
Commissioner Dawkins: City of Miami.
Mr. Odio: Building officials.
Commissioner De Yurre: Based on what code section? Did they cite the code
section?
Mr. Jones: Under the South Florida Building Code.
Mr. Ordonez: Let me make a clarification for the record. MCO Environmental
was a contractor to the City of Miami, was not a subcontractor of the general
contractor in the previous phase.
Commissioner Plummer: Is not a general contractor a higher degree of license
than an abatement contractor?
Mr. Weiss: Yes, sir. Absolutely.
Mayor Suarez: Well that's the irony of it. You've just hit it. It is
apparently, from what I see here, a more specialized kind of contractor, but
it does not encompass all of the other qualifications of a contractor, so in
another sense it is not nearly as much expertise as a general contractor
brings to the job.
Commissioner Plummer: You know, let me give it you, if I may, in simple
English, and this is what it seems like to me.
Mayor Suarez: You would think that...
Commissioner Plummer: If we required a GC in the inception to do the work,
and we found asbestos, it would seem like to me we would include a general
contractor to do that portion of the work and also an asbestos remover.
Mr. Weiss: Of course.
Mayor Suarez: Right. Yeah, you would think that this would be like a doctor
who first has to be a doctor and then a specialist and that's not apparently
the way it works.
Mr. Weiss: It is exactly. It's the way we bid this contract.
Mayor Suarez: That's not what I'm reading right there.
218 January 23, 1992
r
.p
Mr. Weiss: He can't...
Mayor Suarez: It says asbestos contractor. All right.
Mr. Weiss: Mr. Mayor, I just want to...
Mayor Suarez: I mean, it might follow from logic or other things, but it
doesn't follow from reading that ordinance.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor, I have one...
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... question from the administration. You were or are
removing asbestos in Phase I. Is that correct?
Mr. Odio: Yes, we hired...
Commissioner
Dawkins: How did you go about that? You subcontracted, you put
out a bid or
what did you do.
Mr. Ordonez:
No, it was done on an emergency basis. It was done for an
abatement contractor that is MCO...
Commissioner
Dawkins: How did you obtain the services of whomever you used?
Mr. Ordonez:
Well, we have used MCO Environmental before.
Commissioner
Dawkins: How... Okay, so you used them. Okay. How did you get
}
to use them?
Did you rent them, did you buy them, did you put out a bid for
them? How did you obtain their services?
Mr. Ordonez:
Well, no, it was an emergency basis.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I hope through com... bids.
Mr. Odio: Competitive bids.
Commissioner
Dawkins: Beg your pardon?
_
Mr. Odio: Competitive bids through negotiations on an emergency basis.
Commissioner
Dawkins: Wait a minute. Competitive bids through negotiations.
A11 right.
Now you've got a company that's removed asbestos, has a track
f
record, did you not negotiate with this company again?
-
Mr. Ordonez:
Sealed bids.
j Commissioner
Dawkins: Beg your pardon?
Mr. Ordonez:
We have a competitive sealed bids.
'i
is
Commissioner
Dawkins: Got a what?
219 January 23, 1992
s
�.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Sealed bids.
Mr. Odio: Let me explain, Commissioner. The first part of it, we had to
finish the Orange Bowl. We had to go on an emergency procedure basis, which
you don't go into the sealed bid process. This was done on a sealed bid. MCO
didn't even bid on it.
Mr. Weiss: Of course they did, as a subcontractor to SAC.
Commissioner Dawkins: You know what...
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait.
Mr. Odio: They did not bid on it, Richard.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... I'm through.
Mayor Suarez: All right, let's go Commissioners. Unless anybody has any
questions. Come on. We have to decide, one way or the other.
Mr. Weiss: Mr. Mayor, may I sum up?
Mayor Suarez: No, absolutely not.
Mr. Weiss: Okay.
Mayor Suarez: Does anybody have any motion to make?
Vice Mayor Alonso: This has been tough.
Commissioner Plummer: Regardless of what motion you make, you're damned it
you do, and you're damned if you don't.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's right.
Mayor Suarez: A lot of what this job entails, apparently.
Commissioner De Yurre: But one way we're protected, and the other we are not.
Commissioner Plummer: We're not...
Mr. Weiss: You're not protected from a delay.
Mayor Suarez: He means protected in the sense of hold harmless.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Liability.
Mayor Suarez: Right. Of that kind of liability...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: ... for the awarding of the contract...
Vice Mayor Alonso: And then, on the other hand...
220
January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: ... not necessarily protected in the sense that if, in fact...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... something is wrong.
Mayor Suarez: ... these allegations were correct, that this could be done
entirely wrong. It can harm somebody. We don't... yeah, we are only
protected by their...
Vice Mayor Alonso: I'm inclined to believe that he's right.
Mayor Suarez: ... performance bond, to the extent that it covers and not
necessarily by a...
Commissioner Plummer: Looking at the pictures, Mr. City Attorney.
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Am I to assume that they are going to have to sub out
the crane work or does this PDQ...
Mr. Jones: You mean the successful group that's been awarded?
Commissioner Plummer: Well, this one here. What is it?
Mr. Jones: The group that's before us.
Commissioner Plummer: No.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, no, the...
Mr. Jones: The group that you awarded to.
Commissioner Plummer: The other group. Are they not going to have to sub out
the crane work?
Mr. Jones: Apparently the presentation that...
Commissioner Plummer: They don't have the ability in house. Is that correct?
Mr. Lee: Normally, no contract of this type has that ability. They rent the
cranes.
Commissioner Plummer: Okay. Now, they did not list the subcontractor as to
the crane work. Do we know who they're going to use as the crane work?
Mr. Lee: Not at this time.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, because they didn't list anything.
Commissioner Plummer: In other words, they can go out here and find any yo-yo
with a crane and we have no way of saying you can use that company or you
can't?
221 January 23, 1992
11
Unidentified Speaker: That's right.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No.
Mr. Williams: But so can any other contractor if it's not specified in the
documents, Commissioner.
Mr. Janine: Let me say that, to hire a crane in the Orange Bowl, the general
can...
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, the public hearing is closed.
Mayor Suarez: All right, let's decide Commissioners. Does anybody have any
motion to make?
Commissioner De Yurre: Let me ask this, because Richard just brought up a
point. The indemnity bond protects against liability, but there's a threat of
stopping the work. Is that legally possible or are we protected from the work
being stopped?
Mr. Jones: Well, I can't... My understanding is that the indemnity bond, as
it was represented here, wouldn't be executed until a contract has been
entered into. And so far as this particular group deciding that it does not
agree with the determination of the building official, as you heard here,
certainly it would be within their rights to appeal to the Dade County Board
of Rules and Appeals. There's no guarantee, Mr. Weiss has represented to you
here today, a third -party conversation he had with the chairperson, I think
would be very fortuitous on our part to sit here and speculate as to what the
full board, and that has to be a decision of the full board, may do. I can't
sit here and tell you that if the full board, in effect, does not agree with
the building official, that that's going to, in fact, shut down the work.
Whether they'd issue a stop work order, I don't know. I would assume that
once the contract is executed, an indemnity bond is in place, it would cover
these instances as well. But until a contract is executed, we don't have any
protection of any sorts.
Commissioner De Yurre: Let me ask you this. If we award, like this
situation, and like we have this contract, and then afterwards we realize that
it was incorrectly awarded, that they do not meet the specifications or the
qualifications, where are we at? Are we committed to allow them to go ahead
and do the job, even though we have found afterwards that they are not
qualified to do it? What relief is there?
Mr. Jones: Well, I would think, Commissioner, that it would depend on the
contract and, of course, those are protections that you try to build in from
the outset, that you do have a contracting party, or a responsive party, that
does have the necessary qualifications to perform the work. So, to the extent
' that during the process of the work being performed, it's discovered that this
particular party is not performing up to par or whatever else, then rightfully
so the City has at it's beck and call the right to sue them for breach or
whatever... misrepresentation, or whatever the case may be. So we're not
:f wholly without any recourse ourselves if, in fact, that may be the case. We
can take whatever action we deem necessary.
222 January 23, 1992
0 0
Commissioner Plummer: My question, in reverse. If, for whatever reasons,
this Commission awards this contract to this protestor, does the other one
have any kind of a vested right?
Mr. Jones: First of all, Commissioner, as I stated earlier, the Commission,
and this is my legal opinion to you, you cannot make another award, you cannot
award it to this particular group. You've already made an award that was
based on the fact that it was a competitive sealed bid, the lowest bid,
responsive bid. You cannot turn around now, rescind that award. And if you
do, I think, you and I both know and this Commission knows, what the
consequences will be.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Jones. But then it was really the mistake of the
administration not to allow this group to appear to us at the same time that
we awarded the other contract. And they had presented their papers one day
before. So we should have given the opportunity to hear their presentation.
I, for one, would have gone with them, because I do believe that the
contractor is needed in this job. It seems to me the logical explanation
after listening to all of this, now I am in a position that I might have to
say, well leave it as is because it's going to cost us more money because we
are going to end up in a legal battle, but it's not something that satisfies
me. I will have to accept the after the fact reality. Why are we put
constantly in this position?
Commissioner De Yurre: I think that we need to state one thing. At the last
meeting, it was mentioned, in fact by Mr. Jones, that a bid protest was
received.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner De Yurre: But then the items that were referred to as the
protest was that they had not signed an Oath of Allegiance.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, I remember that. That's right. That's right. We
laughed. I remember. Yes.
Mr. Weiss: And there was a big joke about it.
Commissioner Plummer: Who did not an Oath of Allegiance?
Mr. Jones: The group just before you now.
Commissioner Plummer: What?
Mr. Jones: The group that was awarded.
Commissioner De Yurre: Here we go. "Commissioner Plummer, Wait a minute.
What is the basis of their protest? Dr. Prieto, Their protest, sir, is that
they did not fill certain requirements. Like they did not sign the Pledge of
Allegiance."
Commissioner Plummer: Why didn't they?
Commissioner De Yurre: Because they're not American. But, anyway...
223 January 23, 1992
{
Mr. Weiss: I don't know why they didn't.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me ask them. Are they here?
Mr. Weiss: No, they're not here.
Commissioner De Yurre: No, no. Yes, they are.
Mr. Weiss: Who? The other company was the one that... We filed the protest.
They are the ones that didn't file the Oath of Allegiance.
Commissioner De Yurre: Okay, but the way it looked... the way it was shown
was that it was Mickey Mouse stuff that were being suggested as being in
violation of the process.
Mayor Suarez: You filed a protest on the grounds that they didn't sign the
Oath of Allegiance?
Mr. Weiss: We filed a protest on about five or six grounds.
Mayor Suarez: You were trying to stop them, is what...
Mr. Weiss: Sir, I didn't...
Mayor Suarez: As a good attorney, you found whatever they didn't do right.
Mr. Weiss: Sir, I didn't file the protest. Mr. Mayor, I just want to tell
you that if Mr. Quinn's opinion is correct...
Mr. Jones: Mr. Jones.
Mr. Weiss: Mr. Jones' opinion is correct, and I'll tell you that I disagree
with it because the Dade County Code says that if someone submits a bid and
doesn't have, and it's before you on the bottom line, and doesn't have the
valid licensing requirements, their bid is null and void. And if Mr. Jones'
opinion is correct, then this is a joke.
Mayor Suarez: Well, the other thing that...
Mr. Weiss: This is a disgraceful joke.
Mayor Suarez: Since the Commissioner brought it up, we should have been
informed that the challenge was on something a little bit more substantive
than the failure to sign the Oath of Allegiance. And I don't believe that we
were. So, that's not your problem. That's our staff's problem.
Mr. Weiss: I mean, if that's Mr. Jones' opinion, I don't understand how,
under your own bid procedures in your own code, this bid is to be resolved
prior to the bid.
Mayor Suarez: Why are you arguing all of this now? We've heard all of this.
I was just pointing out something...
224 January 23, 1992
n
C
Mr. Weiss: Because I disagree with...
Mayor Suarez: ... new that came up with the Commissioner.
Mr. Weiss: Well, the Dade County Code says...
Commissioner De Yurre: Additionally, Mr. Mayor, it says also, Dr. Prieto,
that they claim that they were not, that these folks are not properly
registered as a Dade County contractor and he says...
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Commissioner De Yurre: ... which we have found is not correct. So he's
saying that they have been found to be duly registered as a Dade County
contractor.
Mr. Weiss: This is a joke.
Mayor Suarez: Well, that's what the gist of their allegation is now, of
course, as we've heard now.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, just for the record. In a letter from Judy
Carter informing these people, it's very, very clear, "your protest is
scheduled to be heard by the City Commission in its January 23, 1992." They
were informed.
Mr. Weiss: Yes, sir. Yes, sir, and that's why we're here.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yesterday.
Commissioner Plummer: ... that it was today.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: I mean, this is a letter in my document here.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: They were not informed that it was going to be...
(INAUDIBLE COMMENTS NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD.)
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. I'm sorry. Here it is right here, Mr.
Manager. "The protest is scheduled to be heard by the City Commission at its
January 23rd, 1992 meeting beginning at 9:00 a.m." And that is a letter from
Judy Carter, Chief Procurement Officer.
Mr. Weiss: And the City Attorney has advised you that you don't have any
power to do anything. So what is the... what kind of process is this?
Mr. Jones: No, please, sir. Mr. Weiss, please don't mis-characterize what
I've represented to this Commission.
Mr. Weiss: What do they have the power to do?
225
January
23,
1992
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait. Counselor, please. Does anybody have any more
questions on this, on this Commission? Does anybody from staff want to add
anything, God help you...
Commissioner Plummer: Does anybody have answers?
Mayor Suarez: ... to the record?
Mayor Suarez: If not...
Mr. Weiss: I have answers.
Mayor Suarez: If not, I am inclined to entertain a motion. And if not to
entertain a motion, then to...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, do you want me to tell you how I feel?
Commissioner Dawkins: No.
Commissioner Plummer: Would that help you a little bit?
Commissioner Dawkins: No.
Mayor Suarez: Well, if it's incorporated into a motion, yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, it's really a non -motion. All right?
Mayor Suarez: That's what I was afraid of. You can put that in writing and
send it to us.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I have been informed by the City Attorney,
that the original company has a vested interest. And if we now change horses
in the middle of the stream, they have every right to go to court with their
vested interest. It's just that simple. I've got to be honest with you. I
would have preferred, had I known what I know today, I would have demanded
that a general contractor be involved.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Same here.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. But, I'm saying to you, he says they have a vested
interest. If I vote to the contrary of that, I lay this City wide open for a
lawsuit. And based on his words in the minutes, they're going to win. So I
don't see that we have any opportunity to back track. It's...
Mayor Suarez: That's a little bit unfair to their position because...
Commissioner Plummer: I agree.
Mayor Suarez: ... what they did is very...
r Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, the real problem here is that the
Administration, and I've got to find fault with the Administration, should not
have allowed us to have a hearing on this item, fully knowing there was an
226 January 23, 1992
outstanding protest and telling that protestor you will not be heard until the
23rd...
Mayor Suarez: Yes. Absolutely.
Commissioner Plummer: ... and allowed us to make a decision on the previous
meeting.
Mayor Suarez: And you know that...
Commissioner Plummer: You will not be heard until the 23rd, and allowed us to
make a decision on the previous meeting.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, absolutely.
Commissioner Plummer: That's wrong.
Mayor Suarez: And you know that the indemnity, just to clarify, the
indemnity, folks, does not help us, because for them, it is easy to give an
indemnity of that sort. All that says is that they will defend the City in
any claims by them if in fact, we award them the contract. We11, he11, if we
award them the... heck, excuse me Father, if we award them the contract, they
will, in any event, have it in their interest to defend us and themselves so
that they can go ahead and carry out the contract and make the profit on it,
so it doesn't mean anything. It does not in any way indemnify us if we were
inclined to go in the other direction that you are suggesting now, from their
own lawsuit, because as you're saying, and I am not sure if it's exactly
correct, but there is some argument of a vested right here by our prior award,
and so they could possibly claim that they were harmed by our action. So I
frankly, would have liked to have done it at the time. I would have liked to
have had all of this in front of us. We didn't, we now have it, I think,
frankly, we can go either way. I don't want to put them in a position of
weakness, procedurally, by the fact that we did it today. I think we can
defend our actions either way, but in one case, we have an indemnity, maybe,
we could ask them if they would indemnity us if it went the other way, which I
don't think they would. Commissioners, the...
Mr. Weiss: If we can get...
Commissioner Plummer: Wait a minute, why don't you ask them?
Mr. Weiss: ... If we can get an indemnity... first of all, we don't think
that that contractor can get an indemnity agreement, but if we can get one, we
will get one for you.
Commissioner Plummer: You can do it with a cash bond.
Mr. Weiss: We will get one for you.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, they won't indemnify us... well...
Mr. Weiss: Let me just say one...
227
January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: ... you can't indemnify us because you don't have the contract,
so you're spending money and not knowing if you're ever going to get anything.
Mr. Weiss: No, what I am saying is, if you award the contract to us, if we
can get one, we'll get you an indemnity agreement, and you'll have done the
right thing. Because I'll tell you this, you know, I respect Mr. Jones very
much, but I'd much rather be in a position of defending the contractor that's
responsive against a null and void bid pursuant to the Dade County code than
to defending a contractor that was not responsive, that was not qualified, but
you didn't have all the facts, and now, you're trying to defend him later.
I'd much rather be on the side of being right.
Commissioner Plummer: Let's get to the nitty-gritty, because there is only
one way you could change my mind.
Mr. Weiss: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Are you willing to put up a cash bond of seven hundred
and fifty thousand dollars ($750,000) if they sue and pursue, and prevail in
the lawsuit?
Mr. Weiss: I think the amount of the bond... wait a minute. The amount of
the bond would be the amount of the loss profit, is what would be lost here.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, this particular case, their potential was seven
hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Are you willing, and you feel so certain
that you will put up a cash bond in that amount if they sue and prevail, that
this City will not be held liable?
Mayor Suarez: Table the item, or do you...?
Mr. Weiss: J.L., we can... the entire amount of the contract is seven fifty.
The amount of their profit...
Commissioner Plummer: I've got to get for this City, what is the...
Mr. Weiss: Is there... are you requiring the same bond of the other people?
Commissioner Plummer: No...
Mr. Weiss: So why should you ask him...
Commissioner Plummer: ... no, no, no, because they now, what he is telling
me, have a vested interest. You don't have that, not yet. Now, you tell
me...
Mr. Weiss: Well, there is no way that... all they can be...
Commissioner Plummer: ... that you are willing to put up a cash bond...
Mr. Weiss: For their profit.
Commissioner Plummer: ... of seven hundred and fifty... no, sir, the
potential liability to this City is seven hundred and fifty thousand.
228 January 23, 1992
Mr. Weiss: It is not, sir. Your attorney will tell you that...
Commissioner Plummer: Then you don't have to worry about it.
Mr. Weiss: No... there are...
Commissioner Plummer: You put it up then you're not going to lose it.
Mr. Weiss: But the problem 1s, we can't afford the seven hundred and fifty
thousand dollar bond.
Commissioner Plummer: And I can't afford to jeopardize seven hundred and
fifty thousand of taxpayers' money.
Mr. Weiss: I believe that the law is... and Mayor Suarez, you are an
attorney, the only damages that they can recover are their lost profits, they
can't recover the entire cost of the job. I will tell you publicly, and our
profit here is around a hundred thousand dollars, maybe, a little bit more,
that's it. You know, if theirs is a hundred and fifty thousand dollars or
something like that, I don't know what their profit is, but I will tell you
that we will put up a bond for the amount of their profit, and the City will
be home free.
Mayor Suarez: Al right. Let me make a ruling of the chair. We cannot
administer the City by indemnity bonds on the possibility that we have acted
improperly. It's an interesting theory, we did it in the other case thinking
that we were getting something for nothing, I'm not sure that we were...
Mr. Weiss: And it hasn't been posted.
Mayor Suarez: ... Commissioners, I think we have to decide on the merits, and
of the challenge, and that they've been explained to us, I believe we can
probably support either decision. In one case, having some sort of indemnity
which probably hasn't even been written yet, and we probably haven't even
received it as to the successful bidder...
Mr. Weiss: They've not.
Mayor Suarez: ... and in the other case...
Mr. Weiss: You've not received it.
Mayor Suarez: ... maybe, we could...
Commissioner Plummer: May I inquire of the administration? Mr. Manager, in
reading this document which you gave to me, why would you have a company only
put up two hundred thousand dollar performance bond if the contract is seven
hundred and fifty? Why would the bond not be in the amount of the contract?
I don't understand that.
Mr. Odio: I don't know the answer to that, Commissioner.
229 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Well, it's very clear here. It says, "Bidders are
alerted to the provisions of Resolution Number 86-983 whereby performance
bonds are not required for projects costing less than two hundred thousand."
Mayor Suarez: Commissioner Plummer, you have been working too hard today. We
have a threshold requirement that begins to take effect over two hundred
thousand dollars.
Commissioner Plummer: Is their bond seven hundred and fifty thousand?
Mr. Odio: Yes, but we don't have anything yet.
Commissioner Plummer: But I mean, that's what you're going to require of
them?
Mr. Odio: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you.
Mr. Weiss: That's a bond for the job, which of course, we put up for the
total amount of the job too.
Mayor Suarez: Right.
Mr. Weiss: We're talking about an additional bond...
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait, please. Commissioner, I will move the item,
Madam Vice Mayor, to reject the protest, although once again, I mean, I think,
you've done a magnificent job and I sure will know from here on exactly what
is entailed with removing asbestos from these benches, and perhaps, we'll be
more careful in the future to look for an administration that is itself more
careful in awarding these contracts. So, I will move to reject the protest.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Do we have a second?
Commissioner Plummer: I hate to do this, but I don't see where we've got a
choice. Isn't that what you're telling me?
Mr. Jones: Yes, sir.
Mr. Weiss: Could I hear that for the... the City Attorney is telling you, you
do not have a choice in this matter?
Commissioner Plummer: I'm being told by my City Attorney, I don't have a
choice.
Mr. Weiss: Well.
Commissioner Plummer: Say it again.
Mr. Jones: Mayor, and members of the Commission, I make myself emphatically
clear once again, that you've already made an award based on the fact that it
was the lowest responsive bidder. There has been no indication to you
otherwise, even with this presentation today. So I can't see... you would be
230 January 23, 1992
wrong to take action in rescinding the award that you've made, as Commissioner
Plummer has indicated, which I indicated, it's arguable that there is a vested
right, but I feel strongly that the... based on what the administration has
represented to you, there was no such requirement for a general contractor,
and as such, you heard the determination of the building official, and that's
what the award was based on.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK.
Mr. Jones: The recommendation to you, rather.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Moved.
Commissioner Plummer: I sure hope that this Commission passes a motion today,
Mr. Mayor, that in the future, no awards can be made by this Commission when
there is an outstanding protest known to the administration.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Definitely.
Mr. Weiss: It's in your code of ordinance, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me?
Unidentified Speaker: It's already there.
Mr. Weiss: It's in your code of ordinances.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Move...
Unidentified Speaker: That's what it says.
Mr. Weiss: It says, the bid protest should be... it is in your code of
ordinances. Read it.
Commissioner Plummer: Is that a true statement?
Mr. Jones: I'm sorry?
Mr. Weiss: Read the section that deals with bid protest - I have it.
Commissioner Plummer: My question was, that in the future that the
administration not bring before this Commission for action, when knowingly
there is an outstanding protest...
Mr. Jones: Well, the code is silent and to bring to Mr. Weiss' attention,
they could have filed a protest much earlier in the game, but they chose not
to.
Commissioner Plummer: That's not the point.
Vice Mayor Alonso: The point, they did.
Commissioner Plummer: The protest was in...
231 January 23, 1992
+� r
Mr. Weiss: No, no, no, may I read for you out of your...
Commissioner Plummer: No, wait a minute. I am told by the administration,
the protest was timely, correct? I am told by Judy Carter's letter that this
matter will be heard to the protester, will be heard on the 23rd. It is
totally unfair to us to allow us to go ahead and proceed, when there is a
protest outstanding that we don't know what it is.
Mr. Jones: Well, there is nothing within the Code under section... under
procurement section which would prohibit you from granting an award without
having concluded the protest. There is nothing at all.
Mr. Odio: You know, that's a good point that Judy just made. You can protest
an award. You can award this and they could be here today doing the same
thing.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, Mr. Manager, in this particular case, I want to
tell you...
Mr. Odio: Just so you know.
Commissioner Plummer: ... had this information been made available to me at
the last Commission meeting, I would have demanded, sir, and I have that
right, that the general contractor be involved.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Of course.
Commissioner Plummer: OK?
Commissioner Dawkins: Well, I have to go one further. Had this information
been presented to me, I would have voted for this group rather than the other
group.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I didn't want to specify this group...
Commissioner Dawkins: Well, I will.
Commissioner Plummer: ... to give them any kind of vested interest.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Me, too.
Mr. Weiss: Do it today, Commissioners, and litigate this issue, not on based
upon some mistake that the administration made, but what's right. Do the
right thing.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, I guess, we have to put an end. Any other comments
from the Commissioners?
Commissioner Dawkins: No, Madam.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK, we have a motion and a second. Call the roll, please.
232 January 23, 1992
11
The following resolution was introduced by Mayor Suarez, who moved its
adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-53
A RESOLUTION, APPROVING THE CHIEF PROCUREMENT
�! OFFICER'S DECISION TO REJECT THE PROTEST RECEIVED FROM
' SAC CONSTRUCTION COMPANY, INC., IN CONNECTING WITH BID
s' NO. 91-92-026, ORANGE BOWL STADIUM MODERNIZATION,
PHASE II, ASBESTOS CONTAINING MATERIALS REMOVAL, AS IT
'i HAS BEEN DETERMINED TO BE WITHOUT MERIT.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
ABSENT: None.
COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL:
Commissioner Dawkins: I have... on the advice of my City Attorney, I have no
other choice, yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Likewise, I vote no... excuse me, I vote yes.
Mr. Weiss: Oh, I like the other one better.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I have no choice, yes.
COMMENTS MADE AFTER ROLL CALL:
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor, may I make a statement?
Mayor Suarez: Yes, Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: You know, I've been here and I get tired of being
embarrassed the way I've been embarrassed today.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Several times.
Commissioner Dawkins: But this is nothing unusual, this happens damn near
every meeting, OK? And what's really embarrassing to the five of us up here
is, we have promised the Orange Bowl Committee, the University of Miami, and
the public, that we would do everything within our power to make the Orange
Bowl something that's safe, and we are proud of. And every time for the last
233 January 23, 1992
F
three months, something comes up dealing with the Orange Bowl, this Commission
is embarrassed...
Commissioner Plummer: You get...
Commissioner Dawkins: ... Now, I... J.L. Plummer, has been saying it all
along. Mr. Manager, I do not intend to be embarrassed here again dealing with
the Orange Bowl.
Commissioner Plummer: You've got one more this afternoon.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's right.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... In the event... I'm going to say it, in the event
that I am embarrassed, I'm going to make a recommendation that somebody lose
their job, I don't care who it is. But whoever is responsible for
embarrassing us, you need to get rid of them, because everybody on your staff
make ninety thousand dollars ($90,000) and above, OK? Thank you.
Mr. Weiss: This job is going to be stopped. We are going to stop it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK, Mr. Mayor, if I may, I would like to mention again
that we need an auditor to report directly to us, not to anyone else, to this
Commission so we are protected.
Mayor Suarez: It's like the general accounting office type set up?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
22. REQUEST BY APPELLANT FOR CONTINUANCE OF PROPOSED RESOLUTION APPEALING A
HISTORIC DESIGNATION FOR AREA BOUNDED BY REAR LOT LINES BETWEEN N.E. 72
STREET AND N.E. 72 TERRACE ON THE NORTH, BISCAYNE BAY AND N.E. 7 COURT
ON THE EAST, N.E. 69 STREET EAST OF N.E. 7 COURT (EXTENDED), AND REAR
LOT LINES BETWEEN N.E. 67 AND 68 STREETS WEST OF N.E. 7 COURT ON THE
SOUTH, AND REAR LOT LINES OF PROPERTIES FRONTING ON BISCAYNE BOULEVARD
ON THE WEST. (Appellant: Estate of Mary Elizabeth Whitney Tippet and
Cloyce Tippet) (See label 32)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayor Suarez: Let me make an announcement. I've got a note from folks
interested in item PZ-6, the Bayside residents about having a full Commission
for their item, and specifically knowing that I have announced I have to leave
at 7:15 all I can say is...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Let's take it now.
Mayor Suarez: You want to?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Sure.
234 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: OK. We can try... we will try to take it then before 7:15.
Let me just see what else we've got. I do want to say in my own defense that
I think... never done that before... left early... I just really, really have
something that was totally unexpected that came up, and...
Lucia Dougherty, Esq.: Mr. Mayor. In connection with that, if I could
just...
Mayor Suarez: In connection with that. Listen to her. The City Attorney
wanting to get an extra... the former City Attorney.
Ms. Dougherty: Lucia Dougherty. 1221 Brickell Avenue. Representing the
appellant in that Bayside Owners' Association.
Mayor Suarez: Is this related in any way to the Walmart...
Ms. Dougherty: No. Not at all.
Mayor Suarez: What is PZ-6?
Vice Mayor Alonso: PZ-6 is historic district.
Ms. Dougherty: PZ-6 is the... The City has designated a district
historically... has implied post...
Mayor Suarez: Is that controversial in any way?
Ms. Dougherty: Yes, sir.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: It is controversial in any way.
Ms. Dougherty: And I am saying to you...
Mayor Suarez: Why is it controversial?
Ms. Dougherty: ... that I would not mind having a continuance in this matter.
If they want a continuance...
Mayor Suarez: Why is it controversial?
Ms. Dougherty: Because we don't...
Mayor Suarez: You oppose it?
Ms. Dougherty: ... want our property designated. We do not want it... Some
of the neighbors feel that our property...
Mayor Suarez: Which property is that?
Ms. Dougherty: We're on the Bay on 72nd Street all the way at the end of the
Bay.
235 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Adjacent to the park that we own.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Well, they're telling me...
Ms. Dougherty: So, what I'm saying to you is I don't mind a continuance.
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait. The Vice Mayor is suggesting that we
probably get to it in short order. So why you're taking up our time when that
might be the case is beyond me.
Ms. Dougherty: I have a Jennings request. That is, as...
Mayor Suarez: A Jennings request.
Ms. Dougherty: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: What, in Heaven's name, is a Jennings request? Is that a point
of order?
Ms. Dougherty: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: Is that something that would otherwise interrupt our
proceedings?
Ms. Dougherty: Yes, sir. This is the new case law dealing with lobbying and
if there have been any ex parte communications with any of the Commissioners
on this item, I would like the same opportunity to have those kinds of
communications to you, with you as the other folks did, so...
Mayor Suarez: Oh. Oh. Well, we'll be hearing more about Jennings...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. We are going to hear a lot.
Mayor Suarez: ... if that's what you're talking about...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mayor Suarez: ... and how much credence we give to all of that nonsense that
we can't talk to citizens and anyone else we want to talk to about a matter
that's coming before us and how we're willing to take that all the way to the
Supreme Court, possibly even after the final court rules, disobey that on the
basis that it's a higher law or a constitutional amendment or something that
protects us. So...
Ms. Dougherty: I'm not saying that they can't do it, I'm just saying I want
the same...
Mayor Suarez: I am not even arguing with you. I'm just making a statement...
- Ms. Dougherty: OK.
Mayor Suarez: ... that something occurred to me today as I was told that this
might come up. But we'll take that up at the appropriate time.
236 January 23, 1992
23. PERSONAL APPEARANCE: MANUEL GONZALEZ-GOENAGA (CITIZENS UNITED FOR A
DECENT GOVERNMENT ELECTORAL ALLIANCE) TO DISCUSS ELECTORAL REFORM FOR
MUNICIPAL / COUNTY CAMPAIGN FINANCING.
Mayor Suarez: I've got Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga who has already been heard many
times today. Sir, would you mind terribly if we took this item at the first
meeting in February as a courtesy to these folks that have been waiting?
Because we've heard you a few times today and my situation today is a strictly
personal, unanticipated personal problem and I'd like to get to their items or
would you like to tell us the gist of your proposal and then maybe later on we
can discuss it more at length at another Commission meeting?
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Well, I want to tell the citizens that I have been here
before anyone and I have...
Mayor Suarez: That's certainly true.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... had enough patience...
Mayor Suarez: You were here at the beginning of the day.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... and I think that my requests have been right after
the last election and I think that if we hear what I am proposing...
Mayor Suarez: But remember, Manolo, that whatever you propose probably has to
be voted on by the people of Miami.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: In the future at a public hearing I want the input of
many of the citizens and there are plenty of them here.
Mayor Suarez: Right. No, no and I mean if it becomes a referendum question
to change the City Charter, they're going to have to vote on it and they may
take into account...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Yeah, but you see...
Mayor Suarez: All right. No, no, I mean, I'm just giving you political
advice.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... I'm going to be short. Ten minutes. Ten minutes.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Ten minutes? No, no, you're not going to have
ten...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: What we have been more than a football game here
talking about the...
Mayor Suarez: Yes, sir. We have been... Wait, wait. We have been here on
very important items affecting the public interest, including the expenditure
of many dollars and the possible liability, if we don't choose the right
237 January 23, 1992
contract. So you have, under the Code, I believe, two minutes. And you will
be kept at two minutes, sir, since you obviously don't want to yield to...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Four. Two as an individual...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Give him four, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... two as Citizens United Against Police Brutality...
Mayor Suarez: Don't argue anymore because yn-.;'re going to use up the...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... and two...
Mayor Suarez: I give in, I give in. I'll give you four minutes...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... Electoral Alliance and Decent Government.
Mayor Suarez: All right. You've got exactly four minutes beginning now.
Madam City Clerk, it's 6:05, he ends and Lieutenant make sure that we have the
appropriate...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Officers.
Mayor Suarez: ... police. Yes, sir. We were going to have that ready at
6:05. Go ahead.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: OK.
Mr. Ruben Avila: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Suarez: Please don't anybody interrupt him.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Well, don't interrupt me, please. This is the most
important issue and the bottom line of all the "cifarra" that I have been
discussing here. The essence is dear Commissioners...
Commissioner Plummer: Wait, wait a minute. I don't waive consecutive
translation. What is "cifarra"?
Mr. Avila: Bunch of bologna, Mr....
Mayor Suarez: Shenanigans, please, just that's close enough.
Commissioner Plummer: I want to know what the... what is the man talking
about?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Not today.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Shenanigans.
Commissioner Plummer: What is "cifarra"?
Mayor Suarez: Shenanigans is close enough. Implication of public corruption,
etcetera. All right. Go ahead.
238 January 23, 1992
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: My dear friends...
Commissioner Plummer: Oh. OK.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: ... Commissioners. The Citizens United for Decent
Government starts from the top down. In other words, we must start with the
essence of why these five Commissioners are here. They become Commissioners
because there is no control on campaign financing. For example, the State of
Florida, who has a thirty billion dollar budget in comparison with the City of
Miami who has a two hundred million budget, the State of Florida amended the
law, the maximum of five hundred dollars per individual and corporation. Yet,
in this little, nonsense, stupid City, with a budget of two hundred million
dollars and we have heard all day long all these hanky panky monkey business
spread here, we have a limit of a thousand dollars. It should go down to
twenty five dollars per person, a maximum of fifty and fifty is more than
enough, for the particular reason that if we make the comparison and we... and
the State of Florida has a thirty billion dollar budget and the City of Miami
has two hundred million, ten times that is two billion or twenty billion.
Fifty dollars is more than enough to get elected to these positions where most
of the time they don't even know what's going on. At least some of the
Commissioners. Secondly, we have had the experience and I was in the field in
the last election working for three candidates and they have accused me of
treason, some of them. Mistakes started with Mr. Correa, then I went with
Tulela, then I finished with Mr. Bared. So I know a little bit and I think I
work very hard for the Commissioner... for the Mayor a long time ago. And who
can honestly tell me that the amount over the table, because there is another
issue, the race funds under the table and we can see, when I get the final
report on Mr. De Yurre's campaign, that the Cuban American National Foundation
and its members who have just established an anti -defamation and the Mayor
backs them a hundred percent, you see the defamation is against the citizens
of Miami when you have to raise half a million dollars to get elected to an
office of five thousand dollars. That's the problem here, my dear friends.
And I am only allowed four minutes for the most important issue. If this
issue is solved, then we would not have so many influenced peddlers here where
you will see the show will go on after when these PZs, you will see many
attorneys, probably, I think in one case Greenberg, Traurig is shown. Every
time they lose an appeal, Greenberg Traurig comes in. Why? You check the
contributions of the law firm of Greenberg Traurig with a hundred and sixty-
three or sixty-four attorneys and now they merged with a bigger firm, and then
you realize why they need Greenberg Traurig for an appeal before these
honorable, virtuous Commissioners. So, my dear friends, we have to amend the
campaign financing laws to start with. We also have to control Mr. Jose
Cancela at Channel 23 and also the Latin builders, CAMACOL, Cuban American...
especially the Cuban American foundations, the anti -defamation league, the new
organization. And I need a public hearing. I want to hear the input of other
citizens because this is the essence of everything that's going on here.
Thank you very much. And this needs much more time. A little less than the
football game we just had here.
Mayor Suarez: Thank you for your statements.
Mr. Avila: Mr. Mayor. My name is Ruben Avila with the National Association
for Crime Prevention and when you went on your first campaign...
239 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Wait, wait, wait, wait. What does that have to do with his
request for a public appearance here?
Mr. Avila: Well, Mr. Mayor, I'm going by what you said in your first
campaign...
Mayor Suarez: No, no, no. You're going by the established procedure in this
Commission. You can have a seat, sir. If you request to be heard by this
Commission, you can do so in writing like he did and I put him on the agenda
and you will get four minutes or maybe more, depending on what...
Mr. Avila: Mr. Mayor, I want to rebut on what he just said.
Mayor Suarez: I'm sorry?
Mr. Avila: I want to rebut on what he just said.
Mayor Suarez: But we can't get into that, sir, we've got other...
Mr. Avila: Fifteen seconds.
Mayor Suarez: Fifteen seconds?
Mr. Avila: Yes, sir.
Mayor Suarez: I really would prefer... what he says here, if everything that
he says here is rebutted, we spend...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: What?
Mayor Suarez: ... all our time on him. I mean, I appreciate it...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Is it the true facts?
Mayor Suarez: ... if you're going to rebut it, but it really is out of order
today. I mean...
Mr. Avila: OK. Thank you, sir.
Mayor Suarez: ... if he'd alleged something against you, sir, I would...
Mr. Avila: I don't have anything against him.
Mayor Suarez: I know. I would give you an opportunity, in fairness to you,
but he is just sort of making general proposals and otherwise impugning us and
we're really...
Mr. Avila: Can you give me five seconds to make a statement to you, sir?
Commissioner De Yurre: He would have been finished already, Mr. Mayor. Let
him speak.
240 January 23, 1992
Mr. Avila: You made a promise in your campaign that at City Hall, you're
going to close the circus.
Mayor Suarez: Yes, sir.
Mr. Avila: Sir, you closed the circus, but you left the clown in here.
That's all. Thank you.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Thank you.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: I really appreciate your perception of myself.
Mayor Suarez: That was within fifteen seconds. I have to admit that you
stuck to your pledge, too, sir, because you said fifteen seconds and you did
it a lot quicker. If I had believed you, I wouldn't have even stopped you
from saying what you were going to say.
ri Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Could you comment on what I just said?
Mayor Suarez: Not to mention that I like what you said. Please have a seat,
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga and if you have any quarrel with his characterization,
you can take it up with him. I have not characterized anything you have
done...
( Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Well, I joined the circus as an elephant.
Mayor Suarez: ... although I certainly have some ideas, sir...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: When will I bring the ideas?
Mayor Suarez: Sir.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: When could I bring them further ideas?
I Mayor Suarez: Sir. You are out of order. Officer, if he tries to speak up
this time, remove him...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Item 13.
Mayor Suarez: ... nice and gently. But, but...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Like on October 6, 1990.
Mayor Suarez: ... but forcefully.
Commissioner Dawkins: Thank you.
Mayor Suarez: Thank you. Thank you. Now we have...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: I'll be back. I'll be back.
241 January 23, 1992
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24. PERSONAL APPEARANCE: BOB FITZSIMMONS REGARDING INTENDED USE FOR U.S.
NAVAL RESEARCH CENTER PROPERTY IN COCONUT GROVE AS A SHELTER FOR THE
HOMELESS -- REQUEST GROUP TO COME BACK AT A SUBSEQUENT MEETING WITH AN
ESTIMATED COST FIGURE TO THE CITY, IF IT WERE TO DECIDE TO JOIN THE
CLASS ACTION SUIT.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayor Suarez: Duke McBride, I am sure you would not have any problem
deferring or delaying your comments until we have some of these planning and
zoning items that the public is...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thirteen. You're not going to take thirteen?
Commissioner Plummer: Wait.
Mayor Suarez: Thirteen is what?
Commissioner Plummer: We got Fitzsimmons here.
Mayor Suarez: And Mr. Fitzsimmons, yes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: He's here. Yeah.
Mayor Suarez: Counselor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Robert Fitzsimmons: My name is Bob Fitzsimmons. I live at 2512 Abaco
Avenue and I have an office at 2666 Tigertail Avenue. I'm here to address you
today regarding the proposed use of the Naval Reserve Center on Tigertail
Avenue. Let me start by saying before I came and considered making the
statement that I'm going to make to you today, I did a lot of soul searching.
I don't want to be seen standing here opposing a social program, but I do
believe after thinking about it for a very long time, that my position in this
is right and I don't think the use of that property as proposed is
appropriate. I want to say I support the program that the Coalition has
drafted and provided to HHS (Department of Health & Human Services) for the
use of the facility. I'm going to ask you two things. One, did you pass a
resolution supporting that program and perhaps funding it? But the second
part of it is, if they want to do it or continue to do it on that property, I
want to ask you to commence litigation to challenge the Federal Government's
using that property for that purpose and usurping your ability to impose
zoning controls over that property, in short, putting a homeless facility on
that property without your input. Now, a lot of people are going to get up
and say this is a "not in my backyard syndrome" and I've said it before and
I'll say it again. Anyone who says they want a homeless facility in their
neighborhood, is lying. to you, so I can't say anything other than that. But
on the other side of this, the proposed facility is located in the tourist
area of Coconut Grove, adjacent to all the hotels. It is also probably in one
of the highest real estate taxed residential neighborhoods in our County, if
not in our State. And those facts cannot simply be ignored. Now the property
242 January 23, 1992
0
itself is over three acres, a very pretty property and it's what I would call
waterfront property. The Coalition, and I am one, I do a lot of civic
service, I understand all the work they do and I respect it and I think they
deserve your support. The program they have designed as outlined in their
application calls for housing for forty-four men and women and I believe five
families. So they want to use, as proposed, that property to house that many
people on a three -acre site of waterfront property. They require that they be
enrolled in academic and vocational programs and they want to provide some
support services to them. The program itself, I will admit, having forty-four
people is designed to be sensitive to the impact on the neighborhood. I
recognize that. I went down with one of the board members and met with some
of the people, seven of the people that they would propose to house there.
And these are not "street people" as you would call them. They are nice
people. They're trying to get their way back. And they would not be
offensive. I think the program should be supported, but I want to make it
perfectly clear, I don't think this is a program that has to be operated on
waterfront property. My argument is this. I think to house, whether it's
forty-four people or fifty people, on that property is a misuse of the
property. One of the problems is, one of the things they have come forward
and said well we will agree voluntarily to restrict the use. We spent five
hours and sat down with the City Manager and representatives of the Coalition
trying to work out restrictions. Well, they didn't really want to call them
restrictions, they were guidelines. And it went from the original proposal of
forty-four and we finally got up to a hundred and twenty-five people, a
hundred people living there. So we have twenty-five people coming from
. And what that does is demonstrate to me the problem. It's an under -
utilization of that property and over time, even if they start with fifty or
they start with a hundred, as they accede to the demands of serving the
homeless population, they're going to want to put more and more services on
there. And that's what we, as the residents, fear that will happen there. So
I'd like to ask you for two things. I would like to ask you to pass a
resolution. I've had discussions with the City Manager. There is monies or
can be monies available, both out of Federal funds, perhaps out of community
development funds, to help them run the program at a facility, maybe provide a
facility to them, either out of your inventory or, in this market you probably
could acquire a property that would meet the requirements that they are
outlining in this program and provide the money to operate it. I think that's
a reasonable thing. I think this is an opportunity for the City to take a
lead in this. It's not a terribly expensive program to run and it would be a
first step in the right direction for this City to take some action. I don't
think it needs to be run on this facility. I think if they don't accept... if
the City were to do that and they were not to accept it, it kind of displays
that there may be a hidden agenda for what this property is going to be used
for. And if they don't want to accept that, I have to ask you, as a City, to
instruct the City Manager or the City Attorney to challenge the Federal
government's implementation of this program. They have basically said we do
not need any comment from the City. If the City opposes it, we're still going
to do it anyway. And I, as an attorney, we've done some investigation,
believe that the regulations can be challenged successfully. They were
very...
Mayor Suarez: The basic grounds is that, quote unquote, as you stated,
Federal government would be usurping zoning functions of the City?
243 January 23, 1992
dP
Mr. Fitzsimmons: That would be... there are a lot of different grounds. One,
the regulations...
Mayor Suarez: I mean as to us, that there may be other grounds, that you
don't think the statute is being applied correctly, etcetera, etcetera, but as
to us, is that it?
Mr. Fitzsimmons: I believe so. I believe...
Mayor Suarez: And isn't that something that we can contemplate at anytime?
Why must it be now? I mean, you perhaps should try to convince us that it
should be sort of preemptive strike and not something that we could consider,
if indeed at a later time, something was done there that we felt ran afoul of
our zoning laws.
Commissioner Plummer: Could try to stop us from getting in trouble later.
Mr. Fitzsimmons: I think once you start... If you wait, you will not be able
to stop it. I think it's something that should be determined now. These are
fairly new regulations. They were done very hastily. Congress mandated that
the GSA (General Services Administration) and HUD (Housing and Urban
Development) and HHS implement these regulations in ninety days. So there's
not a lot of forethought. They don't ask for impact studies. They don't ask
for different effects. It may, if they went through the process, find that
this may be appropriate, and it may not. But I don't they're appropriate.
Even taking the given regulations, I don't believe that the government has
followed them. There are certain environmental concern policies that have not
been followed. This will have a negative impact on the neighborhood
surrounding it. It will reduce your tax revenues. It will reduce our
property values. And I have to reiterate. I suggest that you agree to help
them run this program at an appropriate site. And I'm not telling you it
doesn't have to be in Coconut Grove. I'm not telling you that it couldn't be
across the street. My problem is they try to house fifty people on three
acres, that's not going to last very long. All of a sudden, either that
number is going to go up or the services are going to change. The property
demands that it be utilized for more and I think there's a more appropriate
use of that property. That doesn't mean that you couldn't go to a building
across the street, run that program. They want to be in a nice neighborhood,
I think that's important. They want to be near transportation. You can
provide all the elements they need. It does not have to be on a three -acre
waterfront property.
Mayor Suarez: All right. Thank you.
Ms. Claudia Kitchens: Good evening, I'm Claudia Kitchens. I live at 2828
Coacoochee Street. I'm a Coconut Grove resident and I am also the Executive
Director of the Miami Coalition for the Homeless and I'm here to...
Mayor Suarez: How coincidental.
Ms. Kitchens: Isn't that amazing? I'm here this evening because I wanted to
speak to a couple of issues. First is the highest and the best use of the
land. Mr. Fitzsimmons, Mr. Odio, myself and several other representatives
from the Coalition met in Mr. Odio's office in the middle of December, along
244 January 23, 1992
with a representative of the Naval Reserve Station. At that time, we all
agreed to a cap of one hundred student residents living on the facility with
the ability of twenty-five other people who would be qualified to be in the
program which will have very strict guidelines for intake and would be able to
access the property. We tried to walk a line between using the property to
its highest and best use and also being sensitive to the lovely residential
neighborhood that it is situated in. We also spent a very long time
discussing the possibility, if and when, the Coalition decided to use this
piece of property, how would we go about changing the use of the property.
The Naval Reserve was very interested in this component and they have taken a
leadership role that within the lease that is going to be developed, the
Secretary of the Navy will play an instrumental role in evaluating whether a
proposed new use would be appropriate and he will seek the guidance and wisdom
of local people to make that decision. We have outlined a program which you
all have gotten copies of which we feel really speaks to the issues of the
community. It will be a very select group of people which will be given a
long-term opportunity, up to twenty-four months, to live in this facility
while they take advantage of a State law which allows homeless people to
attend post -secondary schooling in the State of Florida for free. It is a
program that is needed in this community. We feel it's an opportunity that we
can take those homeless people and give them a chance to turn their life
around. We are willing to work with the community. We do not want this to be
a problem. We have self-imposed guidelines on the use because we want the
community to know that we have no intention whatsoever of ever turning this
into a soup kitchen or an overnight shelter or any kind of facility which
would cause lines of people to form around a building. The only way people
will be invited into residence in this will be as a referral from another
shelter or agency. They will have to be enrolled in school at the time that
they are allowed to be in the program and they will have to have been
certified to be drug free.
Mr. Odio: I don't know if it's appropriate. I want to say this. I want to
thank the Homeless Coalition for having met with us for many, many hours and I
want to make clear that at that time we represented to her that my role there
was simply as a mediator, if you could call it that, and we brought this...
the so-called agreement, or we didn't know what to call it really, to all the
neighborhood groups and the business groups about two weeks ago and it was not
accepted. So... But I wanted to thank them and I so told Mr. Bookbinder also
because they didn't have to come in and sit down and negotiate anything. But
the fact is that this is not an agreement that was accepted by anyone.
Commissioner Plummer: You know the one thing I haven't heard. Compatibility.
How can you, or the Federal government, say in any way, stretch or form, that
is a compatible use for that area?
Mr. Odio: You are asking me?
Commissioner Plummer: No, I'm asking... Well, anybody wants to answer,...
Ms. Kitchens: Because it's going...
Commissioner Plummer: ... I'm sure we have a diversity of opinions. But what
I'm saying is... In my opinion, to me, it is not compatible to the area and,
as such, I'm asking someone to possibly give me an answer that they feel that
it is compatible.
245 January 23, 1992
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Ms. Kitchens: The program that we have designed is a residential small
apartment -type living, which is very similar to the type of living that would
go on in the properties up and down the street, apartment residential -type
living.
Commissioner Plummer: I understand your answer. I really don't have to agree
with it.
Ms. Dagmar Pelzer: I'm Dagmar Pelzer. I am a Coconut Grove resident. I'm
also a Dade County public school employee. We have served homeless adults
since 1987 when I started a program. We have been very successful. We have
right now over a hundred people who might qualify for entry into this facility
because they are all full-time students. Mr. Fitzsimmons had the opportunity
to meet a group of them and I think he was quite impressed with the caliber of
people who are struggling to go to school full time. Yes, the compatibility.
There are schools along Coconut Grove. Basically, you can look at it as a
dormitory for students. It is a school. So I don't see why it would not be
compatible. I would like... Really, I'm kind of disappointed that the Coconut
Grove community is not more involved because the population needs the support.
Whenever we establish programs, we invite the community to participate. We
want business and industry to be involved. Be this program here or anywhere
else, it is still always a call on the community to participate, and I think
this can be in this case as well.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. City Attorney, your recommendations in reference to
part two, the downside, any reservations you have if this Commission were to
vote to join the lawsuit?
Mr. Maxwell: Our review of the facts in this particular case would lead us to
recommend to the Commission that you should not join this lawsuit at this
time.
Commissioner Plummer: Based on what?
Mr. Maxwell: One, we question whether or not the City would have standing,
for one. And we are also of the opinion that the chances of the City
prevailing on the other challenge are very slim.
Commissioner Plummer: What has the City got to lose if we do join the
lawsuit?
Mr. Maxwell: Money and time.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't think they've been asking us for money.
Mr. Maxwell: No, the cost of the litigation, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, OK. We have in-house attorneys. I'm just asking
the question. Bob, are you asking the City to participate financially?
You're not Bob.
Mr. Fitzsimmons: We would like the City to participate partially financially,
yes.
246 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Fitzsimmons: If not, at a minimum, with the name of the City. The
strength of the lawsuit would be greatly enhanced by the City's. I disagree
with the standing. We have researched the issue of standing for the City and
the City has standing.
Commissioner Plummer: Well I'm sure that would be the basis of the suit.
But, basically, you know, if you're asking us for money, that puts up another
thing. But what I'm saying is, is if the City joins without - I'm assuming
this would be a class action -...
Mr. Maxwell: Not necessarily, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, if the City were to join in with our support and
we don't put up any money, what does the City lose?
Mr. Maxwell: There's the cost of the litigation itself. Filing documents,...
Commissioner Plummer: You mean, if the City...
Mr. Maxwell: ... pleadings, time involved...
Commissioner Plummer: If their suit does not prevail, the other side has the
right to come back and ask for cost?
Mr. Maxwell: That's one side of it, but the other side is the actual cost of
conducting the litigation.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm saying if they don't ask us for money.
Commissioner Dawkins: They who?
Mr. Maxwell: It's quite possible that could happen.
Commissioner Plummer: They... the people that...
Mr. Fitzsimmons: We would certainly want that at a minimum.
Commissioner Plummer: ... Bob represents. If they're not asking us for
dollars, what have we got to lose?
Mr. Maxwell: Generally speaking, the prevailing side can go for cost and
expenses against the side that they prevail against, and we would be... if we
lost the case, it could cost us money, the cost of their attorneys' fees and
the cost of litigation. That's possible.
Commissioner Plummer: And what would you estimate that to be?
Mr. Maxwell: I have no recommendation on that, sir. I don't know.
Commissioner Plummer: Bob, what is your estimate...
247 January 23, 1992
L]
a
Commissioner Dawkins: Quite a bit of money.
Court. Quite a bit of money.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's right.
Mr. Fitzsimmons: The attorneys'...
All the way to the Supreme
Ms. Kitchens: I think the other thing that you have to lose is the
opportunity you have as leaders in this community to support a solution to
probably one of the largest problems that we have which affects all aspects of
our business and economic and tourism and even the quality of life within our
City. I think that's what you also have to lose.
Mr. Fitzsimmons: Let me... I just... I am not here to disparage their
program, I think the program is needed...
Commissioner Plummer: I don't think that's... that's never been said.
Mr. Fitzsimmons: ... I just think it shouldn't belong there. I want to make
it clear. They're making... It is a necessary program. But it isn't
necessary on three acres.
Commissioner Dawkins: You know, you can't have your cake and it, Bob, too.
Now, you either got to be on one side of the fence or the other side.
Mr. Fitzsimmons: OK.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right. Either you want them - and you think
they're doing a damn good job - or you don't want them.
Mr. Fitzsimmons: No.
Commissioner Dawkins: You know, don't stand up here and pretend...
Mr. Fitzsimmons: No.
Commissioner Plummer: No, then we come back to compatibility.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... that you're on their side, and I'm for you a
hundred percent, but... Eith-ir you're with them or you're against them.
Mr. Fitzsimmons: I am with them in the sense that...
Commissioner Dawkins: All right, so you're with them, so...
Mr. Fitzsimmons: ... I believe the City should assist them in doing this
program. I am opposed to the program on that property because I feel it is a
misuse of that property. They're talking about housing in their application
approximately fifty people. The City has offered them in a letter to go up to
Beckham Hall, which could house a hell of a lot more than that and they don't
refuse it. My...
Commissioner Dawkins: Well, it was just my personal opinion. I think you're
being hypocritical. Either you're for it, or you're against it. And you are
against it. So say it.
248 January 23, 1992
Mr. Fitzsimmons: I'm against it on that property.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK. Then that's...
Mr. Fitzsimmons: Yes, I am. But I am suggesting to you... I am asking you
for two things.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right. All right. Let me ask you a question.
You're against it for that property. OK?
Mr. Fitzsimmons: No, I'm asking you for two things. May I explain?
Commissioner Dawkins: No, wait a minute. Wait, now. No, let me ask you a
question. You're against it on that property, right?
Mr. Fitzsimmons: That's correct.
Commissioner Dawkins: Can we put them in the GDC (General Development
Corporation) building? Are you against that?
Mr. Fitzsimmons: No, I wouldn't be as opposed to that... No.
Commissioner Dawkins: Going to be out of place there, right?
Mr. Fitzsimmons: No, I didn't say it would be out of place there.
Commissioner Dawkins: I said if... OK.
Mr. Fitzsimmons: I said to you in my presentation that...
Commissioner Dawkins: But if I vote, if I vote, not to put them on the Navy
property, but to put them in the GDC building, which is the Manny Medina
building, would you be against that?
Mr. Fitzsimmons: No, I would not. If you took up enough square footage to
house the fifty people they described in the General Development building, no
I would not be opposed to that. Because you would limit, on its own terms,
the program that they would operate there. My concern is not the original
program, but is what it will develop to be. Once they own that property, it
will develop and... The homeless problem is not going to go away. The demands
are going to increase and they will have to serve the community...
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, the more you provide them, the more you're going
to have.
Mr. Fitzsimmons: ... the demands will be upon them to use that property, the
maximum benefit for the homeless people. That means expanding it as much as
they can and I have to respect their ability to do that. But that's what I
don't want to see. If they want to house people that are going to school, let
the City take the obligation to find an appropriate place to house them and a
system in doing so.
249 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. City Attorney. One other question I have. If they
are granted this piece of property, does it supersede our zoning laws?
Mr. Maxwell: The answer is yes under these particular circumstances because
the property will be leased out and the McKinney Act specifically provides
that property that is leased remains in the hands of the Government and is not
subject to our zoning regulations.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Carter McDowell, Esq.: If I may. For the record, my name is Carter McDowell,
the law firm of Fine Jacobson. I've been here a few other times with Grove
House on this issue. We believe that that is the crux of the issue that this
City needs to face. Are you willing to accept a rule adopted in haste by the
Federal government that states, unequivocally, that if they lease property to
a private enterprise, that they still have the right to preempt all local
zoning control over a piece of property in the City of Miami? Aren't you...
Isn't it your duty to protect and to regulate the land use within your
boundaries? To protect the neighborhoods that exist in this City? Of course
you have duties to protect all of the citizens of the City of Miami, including
the homeless. But, the bottom line is, this rule and this process is
attempting to put a use in the middle of Coconut Grove that you will lose
control over completely and you will have no say in it. Are you willing to
capitulate and accept that? We believe that there is a substantial grounds to
challenge that. We think it's wrong. We think the case law would support an
argument that it is improper, because it is not the Federal government that
will be using this property. It will be a private user under a lease from the
Federal government.
Mayor Suarez: Carter, let me ask a question. Have we established what the
existing zoning is and how this would in any way be contradictory to it if, in
fact, I mean... I know Commissioner Plummer was asking about compatibility,
but I think he meant in a more generic sense.
Mr. Maxwell: That question probably should be directed to staff, probably the
Planning and Zoning Department. However, I believe that it is zoned
government institutional right now and that particular use would allow for
what's requested.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Of course.
Mr. McDowell: Respectfully, that is a community based residential facility
under your zoning code. It would absolutely be required to go through a
public hearing and permitting procedures if it were a private entity being
established anywhere else in this community. And the reason...
Mayor Suarez: Have we established that that would not be the procedure that
would be in fact followed by the entity in question?
Mr. McDowell: The Federal rule that has been adopted says in black and white
that they are not subject to local zoning. They... I suggest you ask the
Coalition, but I would dare say that they are in fact...
Mayor Suarez: And that's when the Supremacy clause takes over.
250 January 23, 1992
Mr. McDowell: They are in fact relying on that fact that they will not have
to go through any sort of public hearing or come back to you for anything
other than maybe building permits from your building department. That is what
they are relying on. That's why they've applied for a lease and not asked for
a deed for the property. Because if they take it by deed, it becomes subject
to your zoning requirements.
Mayor Suarez: Of course, if you are in the process of trying to establish, by
litigation, that such a determination by the Federal government is in fact a
violation of some basic law or an incorrect, unconstitutional usurpation of
our zoning powers, etcetera, you certainly can do that by a private action.
Mr. McDowell: We understand...
Mayor Suarez: Privately filed action.
Mr. McDowell: We understand that and I would suggest that that is only the
beginning. There are several other things and if you want to, we can talk
about them in Wore detail.
Mayor Suarez: No, no, no.
Mr. McDowell: But we won't.
Mayor Suarez: That's plenty enough. But...
Mr. McDowell: There were many...
Mayor Suarez: I'm just thinking that...
Mr. McDowell: Can...
Mayor Suarez: ... I don't see where the City should be getting involved in
this process at this point. We've done our best for the citizens of Miami by
trying to impose and by sort of a negotiated effort trying to impose
restrictions that would lead to the use of the facility most compatible with
that community as we see it. Apparently those restrictions were not
acceptable to many of the people that, for whom you speak and I can understand
that, too. I think we all can understand that. But I think the City getting
involved beyond that, beyond all of the efforts that we have made to delay
this pending those kinds of negotiations, pending... One other interesting
idea that came out I think of a conversation with the Manager which is why not
a special act that would allow that property to simply be sold, put on the tax
roils, used in accordance with our zoning ordinances and the money then, which
would be substantial, go to the homeless to be used in a most appropriate
setting as determined by other laws, regulations, analyses. That apparently
has not moved forward. Although we have alerted, you know, the Congressional
delegation I think all the way up to the Secretary of the Navy, probably the
President himself is aware of this case given the number of people involved in
it and we still are back where we started from. I, you know, more City
involvement in something that has, in a special unique way, been kind of taken
out of our domain by the Federal government and where you have a redress and
apparently are inclined to pursue it by going to court and seem to have nice
251 January 23, 1992
6-1
wealthy people to fund it. Well dressed, well heeled contractors and
attorneys who are, in fact, appointed by myself to different boards in the
City and powerful private sector attorneys, etcetera, etcetera.
Mr. McDowell: Mr. Mayor, two things I would point out on this. First, I
think we've done a lot of soul searching on this process. The City has made
an offer to the Homeless Coalition that would, in fact, better serve their
needs than this piece of property. There's no question about it. They've
offered... they've tried to work out land swaps, they've talked about Beckham
Hall, they've talked about funding over a long period of time. I dare say, if
you ask the Coalition, you'd find that they don't have funds in hand to do
what they need to do to renovate this property. They don't have funds in hand
to operate it the way they say they're going to operate it. And yet, they've
refused every entree that the City has made to them for a reasonable
alternative site. It is astounding to us. I would also like to reiterate a
conversation and a statement made by Judy Brightman who is with HHS who is in
charge of disposition of properties under this process, sitting here in this
room. I asked Mrs. Brightman... Assume for a moment that the Coalition gets
this property under a lease based on the restrictions in their application and
assume for a moment that they either can't fund it or they find that they need
a larger program in order to fund and support that property or they come back
the following winter and say it's a very bad winter, we have nine hundred
people who are on the streets who need shelter. And they came to you, Mrs.
Brightman, and asked you to change the conditions of their lease. Would you
approve that? Her response to me was absolutely, I see no likelihood that the
Federal government would deny a change in the conditions of use of the
property when it is still serving the needs of the homeless.
Ms. Kitchens: May I speak to that for a moment?
Mr. McDowell: Once again, the preemption is a very serious issue here.
Mayor Suarez: Well, let me suggest some ground rules, yes. But, I mean,
we're not going to argue forever about this, folks. The number of contacts
that each of these Commissioners have had with your groups, with the
Congressman, with the U.S. Navy, with the Homeless Coalition, the community at
large Yaromir Steiner, Woody Weiser, etcetera, etcetera, I am sure, you know,
it would take hours just to describe and to list and, you know,...
Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask...
Mayor Suarez: ... do you speak for a group? I see Father McCloskey out there
and other folks that are interested on this issue. Is there people that you
want to tell us that are here without them necessarily addressing us that you
are, in fact, representing? That... OK. All the folks that are here to hear
and to support their side of this argument, would you please raise your hand?
OK. Folks that are here to support their side of the argument, would you
please raise your hand? You're not alone Father, but not by much.
Commissioner Plummer: Can I ask a question?
Ms. Kitchens: I have a list of names. I didn't know it was going to be a
popularity contest.
252 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Ah, the old bring the list of names trick.
Ms. Kitchens: I have them.
Mayor Suarez: Well,...
Commissioner Plummer: Can I ask a question?
Mayor Suarez: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: To the City Attorney or to Mr. McDowell. To your
knowledge, has this law ever been tested in court?
Mayor Suarez: That's a good question.
Mr. McDowell: The...
Ms. Kitchens: There has just recently been a...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. I'll give you the opportunity to address
it, but I asked of the two.
Mr. Maxwell: The McKinney Act has been the subject of litigation sparsely. I
don't think the question is that the... Mr. McDowell knows...
Commissioner Plummer: The question. Let me simplify it for you. The Federal
government giving first priority to a homeless group, has that ever been
tested in court, to your knowledge?
Mr. McDowell: I believe the answer is no.
Mr. Maxwell: It has not reached appellate court level, so I'd have to say no.
Mr. Odio: I know...
Mr. Maxwell: However, it has happened at a lower level.
Mr. Odio: I know of at least one in New Jersey...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, the point I'm getting to, for a non -lawyer, I've
always been told that a law is not worth a damn until it's tested in court.
Now, that's why I'm asking, has this law been tested in court?
Mr. McDowell: If I may, I think there...
Commissioner Plummer: I'm getting a yes and no answer.
Mr. McDowell: There are two issues here. One is the basic legislation, the
McKinney Act. Yes, there has been some litigation surrounding the McKinney
Act. It may have been upheld in terms of giving priority. I am not
absolutely certain of that. I do know that the National Coalition for the
Homeless clearly brought litigation against the Federal government, under the
McKinney Act, to force them to, in fact, adopt procedures for the disposition
of property. No question that lawsuit has gone forward and indeed the rule
253 January 23, 1992
that was adopted was partially adopted in response to that litigation. The
rule that was adopted, which was adopted in July of this year, has never..*
has not only not been tested, it's never been used. This is the first
property that has been attempted to be disposed of under the rule that was
adopted. It didn't become effective until July of this year. So, actually...
I apologize, it may have been May. But it's recently adopted. There has been
no litigation on the rule. Our challenge is in the way they have set forth
the rule. The act that Congress passed does not say that it preempts local
zoning. It's the rule that's adopted by the agencies that says it preempts
local zoning. It's the rule adopted by the agencies that say the only
environmental review that's going to be done is going to be based on
information submitted by the applicant. The Federal government's going to go
do no independent investigation. We're going to trust the applicants to tell
us about compatibility issues and about environmental issues. I think that
rule clearly has not been challenged and that's where we believe there is a
very serious challenge to be brought against the rule and the award of any
property under that rule. We think it's clearly flawed.
Commissioner Plummer: Your ballpark estimation of what it would cost if the
City were to participate, a high and a low. Let me ask it another way. What
is your estimate on the total cost of litigation and what do you expect from
the City, even in percentages to that?
Mr. McDowell: Well, I mean, let's start at the far extreme. Of course, the
community would love for the City to take the first position on this, litigate
the question and actually run the litigation and/or fund the litigation
completely. Obviously that would be the first desire because we believe it
presents the strongest position. We believe that the City takes the... is in
the strongest position to protect its right to regulate land use. Coming in
as an outside party saying, gee, the City should have the right to do this as
opposed to the City demanding that it has the right, we think is a much weaker
position.
Commissioner Plummer: Reduce it down to my question.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Price.
Mr. McDowell: I apologize.
Commissioner Plummer: What would be the cost, in your estimation, of the
total litigation, and then, what would you be expecting the City... you've
already said a hundred percent of whatever the cost is. Now, I'm...
Mr. McDowell: I have to ask.
Commissioner Plummer: ... asking you what are your estimates as to the total
cost of litigation?
Mr. McDowell: Commissioner, I don't mean to duck it...
Commissioner Plummer: Then you cannot...
Mr. McDowell: There's no question it's going to be expensive. I think
that...
254 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. McDowell,...
Mr. McDowell: ... getting up through the...
Commissioner Plummer: ... you or no one else can stand up here and ask me to
vote favorably on something that you can't tell me the cost. No way you can
ask that of me, sir.
Mr. McDowell: We're asking... there's a two step request. One is that you
join and become plaintiff.
Mr. McDowell: There is a secondary request regarding funding. I will tell
you that we feel that to go through a preliminary hearing on an emergency
injunction to block the actual transfer of this piece of property...
Commissioner Plummer: Join as plaintiffs. Does that put us in a liability?
Mr. McDowell: ... is clearly going to run up toward between twenty-five and
fifty thousand dollars. There's no question about it. It's expensive
litigation. It's Federal court. It's not something that can be undertaken
lightly.
Commissioner Plummer: Do you disagree with my City Attorney who tells me that
we cannot be a plaintiff to it because we don't have standing?
Mr. McDowell: I absolutely and unequivocally disagree.
Mayor Suarez: I do that all the time with him, too, actually.
Mr. McDowell: I will show you, show him the legal research. We haven't had
the chance to do that.
Mayor Suarez: In fact, recently in a...
Commissioner Plummer: If we were to join...
Mayor Suarez: ... matter related to Camillus House.
Commissioner Plummer: If we were to join as plaintiffs, we then have no
financial obligation?
Mr. McDowell: Your City Attorney has correctly stated that there is a
possibility that a court could award costs if you were, if the plaintiffs were
to lose. There is a possibility that that could happen. It does not happen
regularly. I don't think there would ever be an award of attorneys' fees and
this guy is...
Commissioner Plummer: Then what is my outside potential financial obligation
there?
Mr. McDowell: Commissioner, there's no way to give you an answer on that. I
apologize. And we can work between now and another meeting to try to quantify
that better for you.
255 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you can't ask me to sit up here and write you a
blank check. OK?
Mr. McDowell: We're not asking you to.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, in effect, you're asking me to join. But you're
telling me there is an obligation, but you don't know how much. I mean, as
Miller said, you know...
Mr. McDowell: That...
Commissioner De Yurre: J. L., it has to be at least...
Commissioner Plummer: ... when you go to the Supreme Court, you guys don't
come cheap.
Commissioner De Yurre: J. L., it's got to be about six figures. Easy.
Commissioner Plummer: Six figures?
Mr. McDowell: Again, I don't think there's...
Commissioner De Yurre: Oh yeah. To go through the whole gamut of this thing?
Mr. Maxwell: Depending on how far it goes.
Commissioner Plummer: Well... Victor, let's balance that on the other side.
The deterioration of property values around that...
Mr. McDowell: Exactly.
Commissioner Plummer: ... is going to be a hell of a lot more.
Mr. McDowell: If you lose five percent of the property values within a
quarter of a mile or a half a mile of this piece of property, just five
percent, you will lose more tax revenue than that.
Mayor Suarez: Folks.
Mr. McDowell: Think about what the value of that piece of property is.
Mayor Suarez: This is getting a little speculative. We have come up with the
definition of lawyers. They're people who disagree. They very seldom agree.
Now, as to the case at hand,...
Commissioner Plummer: If we all agreed, you guys would be broke.
Mayor Suarez: ... we're not even sure if we have standing. But, we may
choose to... may be inclined to contemplate that, or even give instructions
that the City Attorney figure out a way to obtain standing.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, Mr. Mayor.
256 January 23, 1992
U.-
Mayor Suarez: I'm not inclined to do that.
Commissioner Plummer: Aren't we already on record, the City Commission is on
record that we ask and plead and whatever else to the Federal government to
try... I mean how much further...
Mayor Suarez: I can't imagine doing anything more than what I know has been
done by the Administration and many of the Commissioners up here, including my
own office, but if anybody can think of anything else. I'm not inclined to
vote favorably to joining. I think that they're well able to do their own
blank work.
Mr. Duke McBride: Mr. Mayor. Duke McBride, 200 S.W. 25th Road. My only... I
really take exception to their position that this entire City is desirous of
entering into this litigation. We are not. And I am a resident of this City,
number one.
Mayor Suarez: Oh, I can't imagine that they would really mean...
Commissioner Dawkins: We know better than that.
Mayor Suarez: Yeah, we...
Mr. McBride: Number two. Given the possible financial burden upon this City,
should you enter into this litigation, because not only will you have your own
cost,...
Mayor Suarez: That's an interesting point...
Mr. McBride: ... but if you lose, they're compounded.
Mayor Suarez: ... and that's been argued, Duke.
-i Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah.
Mr. McBride. My only issue is is that if this was in Miller's neighborhood,
that request wouldn't be being made. And if this particular neighborhood
wants to make that request, allow themselves to become a special taxing
-� district, to cover all the costs themselves.
Mayor Suarez: All right. We've got all kinds...
1
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Mr. McBride,...
f
Mayor Suarez: ... of interesting proposals here today.
Commissioner Plummer: ... you and I are good friends, sir. I have to take
exception with your statement. And I have to tell you, sir, that I don't know
of any neighborhood in which this has been proposed who did not come up in
arms. And that's all neighborhoods. I don't think it's been proposed in
Miller's neighborhood, but as you know and you've been here, every place that
has ever been suggested, the people come here in droves to protest.
Mayor Suarez: Yep. That's for sure.
257 January 23, 1992
0
Commissioner Plummer: My statement before is still a statement. There is no
right place.
Mrs. Pelzer: I would like to...
Mayor Suarez: No, no. Wait, wait. No, no, ma'am. We're going to hear from
folks that we haven't heard from very quickly and then close the debate and
determine something here. We're not even sure if we're going to take any
action whatsoever. Bill.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I don't think we can take an action when we don't
know even the answers.
Mayor Suarez: Possibly, in which case I can say that everybody is out of
order from here forward and we can just go on with our next item. I am almost
inclined to do that. But quickly...
Mr. James Johnson: My name is James Johnson. I live at 3025 Blaine Street
which is one block from the Navy Reserve. To answer some of Mr. Plummer's, I
have retained Fine Jacobson. They have given me a figure of $20,000 to put
this in a court. They want so much up as a retainer. They are talking
$10,000 up front which I'm trying to talk to them about. And if you realize
where I live and what is going here, its not been that anyone of us have been
fully against this. There's something that has to be done. But what is
happening with me and that area I live in the middle of it for the last
fifteen years I've been there. I own several pieces of property there. The
taxes, what's going to wind up happening, you are going to wind up lowering
your tax base. You are going to wind up causing me a lot of problems because
I have several mortgages. I'm not going to be able to rent the properties
that I have. Also, I have zoning rules that I have to go buy to build on the
30,000 square foot of vacant land I have there whereas these people don't
have. I have retained these people because I've talked it over with several
different individuals and there is... now we are talking to all the homeowners
associations which are going to contribute into it. For me it's like, and I
don't know much about the law in this respect because I am a contractor, but
I'm doing the Guideway System Downtown for the Omni section and I'm a partner,
a 39% or a 49% partner in a black minority firm. We're doing part of the work
and there we're dealing with the homeless every night and we're dealing with
them every day when we are doing work. I am quite familiar with what's going
to happen in Coconut Grove just by being there at night and day and watching
what's going on. To me, Jack Watson, who is an attorney that represents me
and is my friend has given me something to really say to you people about what
is going to happen to my property value. But I don't know if it's the right
thing to do at this point. The only thing is, is like I wanted to ask and
come here to ask if the City would enter in with me to help fund this because
I can't fund the whole operation. From some of the homeowners groups, now we
have a certain amount. My thing is if we can stop this at this point until
they... I think the Navy has said from some letters I've read and people I've
talked to, that they were supposed to come here and have a meeting with all of
the homeowners, the people around the area. They really need to talk to them
because its what they are going to do with my situation. I own fifteen houses
there and I live in the middle of them. I have been doing this for fifteen
258 January 23, 1992
Al s
years, as you very well know, because I've been here before. I've not built
on any of the vacant land because I'm subject to zoning and there it's all
duplex lots. It's what you are going to wind up doing with me is when you
lower the property value and you cause problems. I'm not going to be able to
rent all of the units I have there, which means I'm not going to be able to
make the mortgage payments and the tax payments on them. So in essence you
are actually condemning and taking my property without offering me anything or
giving me any reason. And I think that the City is letting the Federal
Government...
Mayor Suarez: That's the argument that Watson came up with?
Mr. Johnson: Excuse me.
Mayor Suarez: That's the argument that Watson came up with?
Mr. Johnson: Jack says that you are, as the City, letting the Federal
Government take my land without doing anything about it.
Mayor Suarez: Inverse condemnation from...
Mr. Johnson: That's what he says.
Mayor Suarez: We've heard that before.
Mr. Johnson: O.K. and I don't know exactly how all that works. It's just
that, ah...
Mayor Suarez: You are not paying him for that since he wasn't here.
Mr. Johnson: Well, I don't pay him anyway, he's my friend. He's just sort of
giving me some guidance because I'm dealing with Fine Jacobson which I'm not
familiar with attorneys. But I know that they are very expensive and I really
don't know whether they are charging the right fee or not. But I'm dependent
on someone that I have a lot of faith in to direct me. I really don't see
where I have an alternative. When we get the street closed, I'm forty-eight
years old, I have a daughter, now, that's two years old. When we get the
street closed, our whole neighborhoods changed. I have a partner of mine on
one piece of property, Arnie Gilman, is the same age I am. He has a baby that
is under 2 years old. The whole area in there has now changed since the
street closure. It use to be a single community. It was a much different
place to live. Now that's all changed. And all of us are there and we are
trying to make something out of it. I bought the properties there,
originally, to keep people from developing around me because I wanted to keep
it in the Coconut Grove Way. That's why I've never built on the 30,000 square
feet that I have vacant.
Mayor Suarez: I thought you argued in favor of the street closures and
barricades?
Mr. Johnson: I did. In fact, I paid for mine. I paid for the ones that are
on 27th Avenue.
Mayor Suarez: Ali.
259 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Dawkins: He paid for them all. He paid for all of them.
Mayor Suarez: Oh. But you don't want...
Mr. Johnson: It's right. (LAUGHTER). Miller knows what happened at that
point. My licenses, we did everything and know it's like...
Mayor Suarez: So it hasn't been a... it hasn't created a deleterious effect
on the neighborhood, as you sort of just stated. No? That somehow...
Mr. Johnson: The street closures, no that's been the best thing that ever
happened to our neighborhood.
Mayor Suarez: Oh. Okay because otherwise...
Mr. Johnson: It caused the neighborhood... it caused people to have
children...
Mayor Suarez: Maybe I misheard you.
Mr. Johnson: No. The neighborhood has completely changed since we got the
street closure because now everyone is...
Mayor Suarez: But, we're really not on that. It's just that you mentioned
that, and I...
Mr. Johnson: No. We're on the fact, now is that we've done one thing good
and now we are looking into doing something which, which I know is going to
create a serious problem because I'm saying I deal with it all the time. And
when you are talking about educated homeless you are talking about more con
people than you are talking... you are talking about an educated person that's
not willing to work. And if look Downtown...
Mayor Suarez: We know all that. We just, really, just...
Mr. Johnson: So...
Mayor Suarez: ... wrap up.
Mr. Johnson: ... I don't need to reiterate on that. I'm just asked to see
inner end this with me and help fund it. That's...
Mayor Suarez: Right. Thanks. All right, James. Father, and then quickly,
ma'am and we quit.
Rev. Robert J. McCloskey: Robert J. McCloskey. I live at 2750 McFarland Road
in reference to a correction the Mayor made on his language, about an hour or
two ago. I'm in the health fire insurance business, called the Saint Stevens
Church. I want to encourage...
Mayor Suarez: Health fire insurance business.
Rev. McCloskey: That's right.
260 January 23, 1992
Mayor Suarez: Very akin to Plummer's...
Commissioner Plummer: If he didn't it, he'd be broke.
Rev. McCloskey: I want to encourage the Commission not to take an action on
this request. And I say that not because I'm opposed to what I've heard on
the other side of the room, tonight. I have many friends, community leaders
in Coconut Grove who I sympathize with. My frustration, and I like all of you
have been here since 9:00 o'clock this morning, is that, from the comments
that have been made this evening the characterizations I read on telephone
polls there is an awful lot of misinformation and ignorance about the
situation and the proposals. I think we just heard a short bit of that, there
are homeless people who are attorneys who have lost their jobs. We have
homeless in this City. Every morning I walk behind this building and pray for
you all and have a chance to talk with the homeless. It's not as if somehow
or other it's restricted to any kind of person. My concern is that there has
not been enough dialogue, there has not been enough discussion, there has not
been enough airing of proposals and I think, an action of this sort may in the
final analysis, be warranted. I don't know. I have a different view of the
McKinney Act but I'm not a lawyer. I also know, as I understand it, there is
a hierarchy of uses after you deal with the homeless. It goes down the list
and the next one is drug addiction centers, I believe. There's an awful lot
that's got to be explored and I don't think this community, for whatever
reasons, has done its homework yet.
Mayor Suarez: I am inclined to cut off debate at this point. I've had input
from you, Mr. Steiner, I think the other Commissioners have, and ma'am we've
had input from you and Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga we've had a lot of input from you,
not necessarily on this topic but it was really Bob's request and we've
handled enough on that. I presume that you would like us to intervene in
lawsuits, the same as you ma'am?
Mr. Yaromir Steiner: We would like you to intervene in lawsuit but, if you
pay all the costs of the lawsuit, will you still intervene so that the
decision about this of these properties made in this room, rather than by the
Federal Government?
Mayor Suarez: Okay. You want to state your name on the record. State
your...
Ms. Cynthia Shelley: My name is Cynthia Shelley. I am representing a large
body of homeowners who passed a motion last Friday night to request the City
to join us in a lawsuit.
Mayor Suarez: Very good. What section are you from?
Ms. Shelley: Coconut Grove Park Homeowners Association.
Mayor Suarez: Ma'am, you want to... well you have already given us some
input.
Ms. Pelzer: I only, basically, answered a question. May I please speak? I
would like to talk about and dispel some of the myths about the homeless. I'm
talking about the homeless...
261 January 23, 1992
11
Mayor Suarez: Do you think we do not know enough about the homeless in this
City by now?
Ms. Pelzer: No, I don't think so. I'm talking about the homeless...
Mayor Suarez: I mean we're the ones deciding. You can convince them anytime
you want anywhere you want.
Ms. Pelzer: Okay. I would like the opportunity...
Mayor Suarez: They're not deciding.
Ms. Pelzer: ... to get together with them.
Mayor Suarez: Okay. It's kind of up to them to meet with you or not but I
suggest they do because...
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Three of the Commissioners...
Mayor Suarez: Wait, sir. They ought to spell notions that they have on the
homeless. Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga who do you represent and all I'm asking you to
say is put on the record which side are you on and behalf on whom?
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: I am siding with the Federal Government and the
homeless. And I am going to explain very short.
Mayor Suarez: No, no that's all we need, sir. We got your name and, ah, you
can have a seat we are going to take other actions on other matters.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Well, everybody is allowed to say something.
Mayor Suarez: No, sir. We're just taking, at this point, their statements
because we heard from him who requested a personal appearance. You know how
to do that. You do it at every Commissioner's meeting.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: But they were give more than four minutes.
Mayor Suarez: No, sir.
Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga: Oh, I don't think it is fair.
Mayor Suarez: Have a seat please, Mr. Gonzalez-Goenaga. A lot of people
think that some of the things you've done today are not fair to them and to
their right to be heard. Commissioners, what's your pleasure?
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let me tell you what my problem is. I would
venture to say each and every one of us of the responses that we have had that
run 100 to 1. I don't think that's... maybe even conservative. How do we sit
here saying that we are the elected representatives of the people when we
don't represent them? And in effect when they make a request of this
Commission, which I personally feel is not a compatible use, to tell them no.
Now, I can justify it on the other hand by saying that I think that the
Administration of this City and the City Commission did everything within its
262 January 23, 1992
power to the point of a lawsuit. How do I tell the people that I represent,
who 100 to 1 in correspondence have said to me, we want you, the City, to get
involved? How do I say to them people, no I am not going to do it. Am 1 not
saying to those people I don't represent you? I think I do. That's my
problem.
Mayor Suarez: Ready? Does that lead you to any motion or does it lead
anyone?
Commissioner Plummer: What I would ask...
Mayor Suarez: Motivate anyone to move anything.
Commissioner Dawkins: I got something to say before...
Commissioner Plummer: What I would ask... because I said previously, I can't
write anyone a blank check. I would ask that this group come back at a
subsequent meeting with an idea, in writing, as to what is the cost factors.
Now, that's, that's what I think is fair. I will not write a blank check for
anybody.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Suarez: Yes, Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: As you said, this Commission has been involved in this
from the beginning and the Federal Government, in its infant wisdom has said
that the McKinney Law is the law and if the, and this is coming along the
lines. If the Miami Coalition does not get the property, there is a group in
Louisiana that will get the property. So therefore, where do we go from
there? And it's amazing when we, this City Commission, was attempting to swap
the Watson Building for the land known as the "Naval Station" nobody in the
community came down and said let us join hands with the City Commission and
convince the Federal Government to swap that piece of valuable property for
the Watson Building. So, we lost out. Had we had the support, behind us,
that we've got fighting this, no doubt the Federal Government would have
swapped the land and we would of had the land to do what we want. I agree
with everybody, the projected use of the land is not in the best interest of
everybody. Because I for one have watched where the homeless is allowed to
be. Nobody thinks about the rights of anybody else, in fact, every time I
hear about the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) speak they say I don't
have the rights. That the homeless people got all the rights. I don't have
any. But, by the same token, again I said, I'm going to say it again, and
I'll be raked over the coals, I couldn't care less. The place for the
homeless is Homestead Airforce Base. That is government property. The
government is phasing out the airforce. Therefore, there is an abundance of
land but you know what they tell me when I say that? Oh, no you can't take
the homeless there. You have to take the service to the homeless. That's,
that's a joke. You put the services where you want them and those that need
the services have to go to the services. So, I would suggest to those who are
looking for something to fight this with that you suggest to the Navy and to
the Federal Government that they give 10 or 12 barracks at Homestead Airforce
Base where there is already a hospital for, to provide healthcare services.
Where there already is barracks to provide housing. Where there already is a
263 January 23, 1992
mess hall to provide food. So, you are talking in terms of making an
exchange. Because we've got all of the ACLUs or ACLs (Adult Congregate
Living) in the City of Miami that we need. Why is it every time something has
to be placed someplace, it must be in the City of Miami? I mean, this same
facility could be swapped for some land in Coral Gables. But nobody wants to
put the homeless in Coral Gables. This same piece of land could be swapped
for a piece of land on Key Biscayne... but you are not going to put the
homeless on Key Biscayne. This same piece of land could be swapped for a
piece of land in Bal Harbor. But you aren't going to put them in Bat Harbor.
Mayor Suarez: Have you said Biltmore, yet?
Commissioner Dawkins: No, no and Biltmore you aren't going to put them there.
But everytime they want to put something someplace its in the City of Miami.
And when I complain, because I've got enough non-taxable paying entities in
the City of Miami reducing my tax base, I'm a bad fellow. I don't need
nothing else in the City of Miami that does not pay taxes. Nothing. But by
the same token, I do not need to be a party to losing that property to
somebody who doesn't live in the City. Now, I'd like to say to all of us, it
is all our responsibility, because I'm only one paycheck away from the
homeless, myself. And I may be out there and looking for a homeless. But for
God's sake don't expect me to vote to take the City's money to fight an issue
that the total City may not be in tune with. We represent all of the citizens
of the City of Miami. So, when you ask me to take the tax dollars and join in
a suit with you, where all of the citizens, or maybe not even the majority of
the citizens agree, that's unfair. Just like when we talked, and I've told
everybody, the first mistake I made with the barricades was voting for the
first one. But I try to redeem myself by saying anybody who want them pay for
them. He said I, I got no problem. He paid for them. So if you want to
challenge this in court, I am with you 100% because I think that the
arbitrator in the United States of America is the courts. And when something
you disagree with something you go to court. And then you have to take your
chances in court. So, Mr. Mayor I could not, I mean, I will not vote to
become a party to the suit, but I respect the rights of the citizens to file a
suit.
Mayor Suarez: Alright. This Commissioner, anyone else, anyone want to reduce
their thoughts to motion. In my particular case, it wouldn't make any sense
to make motion because my motion would be that we do nothing at this point
other than what we're doing already which is to try to work with people who
view life your way and people who view life their way. So, if I don't hear a
motion I am inclined to try to get through some of the public... planning and
zoning agenda. This is Commission action by default.
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: At this point, agenda items PZ-1
and PZ-2 were continued to meeting scheduled for
February 18, 1992.
264
January 23, 1992
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: At this point, Mayor Suarez
announces that he will not be present for the
discussion on agenda item PZ-6. Commissioner Plummer
states that because his proposed ordinance on burglar
alarms requires a 4/5ths vote, he will defer the
issue.
25. EXECUTE AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA INTERAMERICAN FILM, VIDEO, TV AND
RECORDING ASSOCIATION, INC., IN SUPPORT OF THE 1991 INTERNATIONAL CO-
PRODUCTION MARKET AND CONFERENCE OF FLORIDA.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me take up this other item, if I may. A resolution
authorizing the City Manager to execute an agreement between the City of Miami
and the Florida International Film Video TV and Recording Association, Inc. in
the amount of $30,000 and support of the 1991 International Co -Production
Market and Conference of Florida to be held April 8th through the 12th, 1992
in the City of Miami. Said funds, therefor, to be allocated from the
Department of Development Professional Services, Account # 590101-113010-280.
I've been asked by this City Administration to present this resolution I so
move.
Mayor Suarez: So moved.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Second...
Mayor Suarez: Second, any discussion, if not please call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced, by Commissioner Plummer who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-54
A RESOLUTION A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY
MANAGER TO EXECUTE AN AGREEMENT, IN A FORM ACCEPTABLE
TO THE CITY ATTORNEY, BETWEEN THE CITY OF MIAMI AND
THE FLORIDA INTERAMERICAN FILM, VIDEO, T.V. AND
RECORDING ASSOCIATION, INC., IN SUPPORT OF THE 1992
INTERNATIONAL CO -PRODUCTION MARKET AND CONFERENCE OF
FLORIDA, TO BE HELD APRIL 8-12, 1992, WITH SAID FUND
THEREFOR, IN THE AMOUNT OF $30,000, BEING ALLOCATED
FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF DEVELOPMENT PROFESSIONAL
SERVICES ACCOUNT, NO. 590101-113010-280.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
265 January 23, 1992
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Alonso , the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
ABSENT: None.
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Mayor Suarez commends City
Attorney on recent successful outcome of an important
pension court case.
i
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Though deferred at this time,
j agenda item 14 was taken up later (see label 28).
26. RATIFY MANAGER'S EMERGENCY FINDING -- WAIVE FORMAL COMPETITIVE SEALED
BID PROCEDURES -- APPROVE THE OBTAINING OF INFORMAL QUOTES FOR
REBUILDING ORANGE BOWL STADIUM FIELD.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayor Suarez: Fifteen is the Orange Bowl. What do we need to approve on the
Orange Bowl? What have we possibly here about the Orange Bowl that we haven't
already heard?
Vice Mayor Alonso: A piece of advice.
Commissioner Plummer: Another protest.
Mr. Max Cruz: Mr. Mayor on commission. Max Cruz from the Orange Bowl.
Number 15 is the replacement of the turf of the Orange Bowl.
Mayor Suarez: And its a protest that we have before us, today.
Mr. Cruz: We do not have a protest, I hope. We went out as...
Mayor Suarez: What do we have? Don't go into what we don't have, if we don't
have it.
266 January 23, 1992
C
Commissioner De Yurre: We have a motion. Move it. Let's get out of here.
Mr. Cruz: It is the approval of the lowest bidder, Recio & Associates.
Mayor Suarez: Is there anyone here to be heard against number 15? Let the
record reflect no one stepped forward.
Commissioner De Yurre: Move.
Mayor Suarez: Moved.
Commissioner Plummer: Second.
Mayor Suarez: Seconded. Any discussion? If not, please call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner De Yurre, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-55
A RESOLUTION A RESOLUTION BY A 415THS AFFIRMATIVE VOTE
OF THE MEMBERS OF THE CITY COMMISSION AFTER A DULY
ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARING, RATIFYING, CONFIRMING AND
APPROVING THE CITY MANAGER'S EMERGENCY FINDING;
WAIVING FORMAL COMPETITIVE SEALED BID PROCEDURES AND
APPROVING THE OBTAINING OF INFORMAL QUOTES FOR THE
REBUILDING OF THE ORANGE BOWL STADIUM FIELD AND THE
ISSUANCE OF A PURCHASE ORDER FOR THIS CONTRACTUAL
SERVICES TO RECIO & ASSOCIATES INC., AT A PROPOSED
COST NOT TO EXCEED $80,380.00; ALLOCATING FUNDS
THEREFORE FROM THE ENTERPRISE FUND ACCOUNT CODE NO.
350503-340, PROJECT NO. 415000.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
NOES: None.
ABSENT: None.
267 January 23, 1992
[1
�11
27. AUTHORIZE SUBMITTAL OF AMENDMENT TO APPROVED 17TH YEAR COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) PROGRAM FINAL STATEMENT TO U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT (HUD), TO REFLECT PROPOSED
ALLOCATION OF $8,000,000 FOR A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FLOAT LOAN --
DIRECT MANAGER TO BRING BEFORE COMMISSION ALL NECESSARY AGREEMENTS FOR A
PROPOSED LOAN TO THE DUPONT BUILDING GENERAL PARTNERSHIP.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayor Suarez: It would have been really helpful if you had told me all of
what was going to happen on 15 and 14 so I could get to 16 instead of all the
other nonsense that I just heard. Alright on item 16. And that is not your
fault, Sergio, but whoever is sitting on that chair has to help a little bit
{ more to move the agenda, here. Sixteen.
Mr. Frank Castaneda: Mayor, Commissioner basically this item is requesting
authorization to do an $8,000,000 CD (Community Development) Float for the
Alfred I. Dupont Building to convert this into residential building.
Mayor Suarez: Herb, this is the one you were saying needed four -fifth's vote.
Mr. Castaneda: No.
Commissioner Plummer: No. The other one.
Mayor Suarez: Its not sixteen, alright?
Vice Mayor Alonso: How much money is available?
Mr. Castaneda: In CD funds, right now, we have about... in carrying capacity
in our letter of credit we can probably can make up to $14,000,000 worth of
loans. The only commitment that we have outstanding, right now, is with Mr.
Braman for $5,000,000. He appears to be indicating that he does not want to
follow up with the float.
Vice Mayor Alonso: But we have a commitment. So 8 and 5 and 13. So the
money is gone.
Mr. Castaneda: We can probably make one or two million dollars on top of
{' that.
Commissioner Plummer: To the principal of the recipient. Where are they?
No, the principal. On the record, sir. Your name and mailing address.
Mr. Ronald Mustars: My name is Ronald Mustars. I live at... My office is at
j; 290 Coconut, Sarasota, Florida.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, are you fully aware and you fully understand that
if granted this loan the City for no reason, whatsoever, has the right to call
this loan in forty-eight hours and you will not fight it?
Mr. Mustars: Yes, sir.
268 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Castaneda: Commissioners, again this is a preliminary to approval, for
the Commission to approve it, in concept. In will be bringing it back with
the contract, with the letter of credit and so forth to another Commission
meeting.
Commissioner Plummer: That's only if Dade HUD (Housing and Urban Development)
approves it.
Mr. Castaneda: That is correct.
Commissioner De Yurre: Question, and I posed it to them when I met the group
a couple of days ago. What has the Administration done to do a background
check on these individuals?
Mr. Castaneda: At this time, I have not done that. I, basically, am
interested in the Commission approving the concept of the idea. Once I come
here with the contract I will have credit information and everything for your
review, Commissioners.
Commissioner De Yurre: So anybody can walk in and say I want one of these
loans and you just bring it before the Commission without checking these
individuals out. Is that the way it works? Yes or no.
Mr. Castaneda: Commissioner.
Commissioner De Yurre: Yes or no.
Mr. Castaneda: No, I have not checked them. That's correct.
Commissioner De Yurre: Okay. Don't you think that we should have enough
wherewithal to say let's find out about these individuals before they are
brought to a public hearing before the City Commission. You know, we learned
one thing with the Boatyard.
Mr. Castaneda: Yes. You are right.
j Commissioner De Yurre: No. Some of did. Some of us didn't, obviously and I
feel that it is irresponsible to bring people up here. They maybe the best
people in the world, but I don't know that. They're from Sarasota, Chicago.
ii I don't know them from Adam. I think its incumbent upon this Administration
to do background checks as extensive as possible, financially and otherwise,
on anybody that wants to come before us and do business in this City with our
money where we may look like fools because we did not cover ourselves and do
j the background check that needs to be done. That's just my opinion. I may
is get voted down 4 to 1 but I just have that concern.
Mr. Herb Bailey: Commissioner, and you are correct. What has happened in
this case is that we have been for the past two or three months in discussion
with this group of people who want to do the Alfred I. Dupont Building. It
was first introduced to us from that involvement with the DDA (Downtown
Development Authority) because it is a downtown project. It also has the
269 January 23, 1992
}
support of the Downtown Businessmen Association. We haven't had some
discussion with them. We have not verified what they have told us but what
they have told us seems to make a lot of sense in terms of the creditability.
Commissioner De Yurre: Has the DDA checked them out?
Mr. Bailey: That has not been any verification in terms of actual written
reports from some investigation.
Commissioner De Yurre: Because what good is it for the DDA to recommend them
if they haven't checked them out themselves?
Mr. Bailey: Well they appeared to me to very satisfied with their
creditability especially when I had the DDA and the Downtown Businessmen
Association supporting it. We have not gotten a written verification.
Commissioner De Yurre: I understand that Herb, but my point is what have they
done to have that comfort feeling.
Mr. Bailey: Just to review the information that has been presented to them
which we have looked bad in terms of the firm and the ownership of the
property. And we've discussed a variety of methods on how to finance it.
What we're doing today does not obligate the City, in anyway, other than just
giving us permission to do some of the things you want us to do. We have sort
of a catch 22. We don't know whether or not we have authority.
Commissioner De Yurre: Let me ask you this. Is there any time frame as far
as this situation is concerned?
Mr. Bailey: Well, I think in terms of them applying for the tax credit, which
has to be February 3rd they need some indication of support. I doesn't
necessarily mean there is a commitment. And we do those types of letters, you
know, a lot of times when someone wants to know whether or not the City does
have an interest in supporting depending upon the decision of the City
Commission, the commitment of the administration and the approval of HUD.
Commissioner De Yurre: I think they can always find this Commission to have
an interest in helping those worthwhile projects, if that's the kind of
support you are looking for. But other than that, how can I give any kind of
inkling otherwise if I don't know these folks? I think that our position has
to be basically that we're always in favor of this type of program of this
type project.
Mr. Bailey: But, we can't proceed unless we go through this process. This is
a process that is required by us to come before you with some sort of
resolution giving us some approval and principal to do this.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Bailey, you made a nasty obscene remark.
Mr. Bailey: I did?
Commissioner Plummer: Would you clarify what you mean by tax credit?
270 January 23, 1992
Mr. Bailey: Tax credit is a method of financing that's provided through the
State of Florida for those projects that are affordable housing projects for
which they get permission to use those tax credits to generate equity for the
investment and they sell them to...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse my ignorance. Does that relate to ad valorem?
Mr. Bailey: No. No it does not.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No.
Mr. Bailey: Not at all. That's a Federal Government.
Mr. Mustars: It is a State program.
Commissioner Plummer: They're still going to pay ad valorem taxes.
Mr. Bailey: Absolutely. It has nothing to do with the City of Miami, the ad
valorem tax base. As a Federal regulation that gives them the ability to
syndicate financing. And we do a lot in affordable housing.
Commissioner Plummer: I would assume, even before the remarks today of this
Commission that in fact the Administration before they sit down to negotiate,
is in fact going to go into depth as to who these people are and what they
represent. I did not see this man driving a leased Rolls Royce as we had
before and you know I think they will definitely look into the matter.
Mr. Bailey: We have a lot of checks and balances.
Mr. McDowell: We have submitted personal financials on the principals to the
City and to the DDA (Downtown Development Authority). They're of record. We
will...
Commissioner Plummer: DDA. Who are they?
Mr. Bailey: We have not validated it. No.
Mr. McDowell: It's an agency you discussed at some length this morning.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, but actually has been stated by Mr. Castaneda that
the City has not investigated so we have no proof.
Mr. McDowell: They have not verified that information...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. McDowell: ... I think that is an accurate statement. However, we
decided...
Commissioner De Yurre: Here's item 16. Here's a background check, here's all
the information that we have.
Mr. McDowell: Commissioner, I don't disagree with you at all.
271 January 23, 1992
Commissioner De Yurre: Good.
Mr. McDowell: We have some very real urgency in this.
Commissioner De Yurre: I know, but, you know, don't expect us to do something
that is not within the norm to deal with your urgency.
Mr. McDowell: We understand that, but we are not...
Commissioner De Yurre: Let's deal with reality. Now, let me tell you one
thing. I'm going to go along with this with the understanding that we have no
commitment at all.
Mr. McDowell: We understand that.
Commissioner De Yurre: I want a full, not only a financial credit check,
police check, all kinds of checks that you can get and that be made available
before we ever consider this again. Timely, not the morning of the hearing.
I don't want to be... this on the agenda until we are satisfied of the people
that we're dealing with. And I expect that the report will be fine and these
are going to be fine people that we're dealing with, but I think we need that
comfort level.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. So that's in the form of a motion?
Commissioner De Yurre: So be it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Do we have a second?
Commissioner Plummer: Sure.
Commissioner De Yurre: That's right.
Commissioner Dawkins: Under discussion, Madam.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: What is the total cost, sir, of the project?
Mr. Mustars: The total dollars involved is between thirty-six and thirty-
eight million dollars.
Commissioner Dawkins: Thirty-eight million.
Mr. Mustars: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: And you are just... you're seeking an eight million
dollar float loan, right, sir?
Mr. Mustars: Which is covered by an irrevocable...
Commissioner Dawkins: No, no. I don't care what it's covered by.
Mr. Mustars: Yes, sir.
272 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Dawkins: So, you are going to do what we want to do, uplift the
area and you're going to put thirty million dollars of your own... thirty-
eight million, because you've got to secure the loan...
Mr. Mustars: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: ... and you're going to put thirty-eight million
dollars of your own money into this project?
Mr. Mustars: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK. All right. All I'm... the only thing I'm
interested in when you come back is that he has the money. OK. Thank you.
Mr. Bailey: We will have a full report.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask a question. Especially about that
particular building which I still think should be City Hall. Frank or Herb,
you know, I always have a way of looking at the dark side. If for whatever
reason, they went into default, we call, of course, the letter of credit.
Mr. Bailey: Correct.
Commissioner Plummer: But what happens to the project? And what happens to
downtown?
Mr. Bailey: Well the building would still be on the tax rolls. It's one of
those pledgible things, regardless of what happens to the property, we'll
always get our tax money from somebody, either the...
Commissioner Plummer: Unless they go into bankruptcy.
Mr. Bailey: Well, even the bank, whoever takes the property over, we will get
our taxes regardless. And if they increase value, so we'll get more taxes.
It will be their financial problem.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Anything else? Call the roll.
Ms. Hirai: Vice Mayor, we need a second on the motion.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Commissioner Plummer did.
Ms. Hirai: Moved by Commissioner De Yurre and who seconds?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Moved by Commissioner De Yurre and seconded by
Commissioner Plummer.
Ms. Hirai: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: Frank.
Mr. Castaneda: Before you vote on the item, I understand from the developers
that they have changed the name of the corporation to Alfred I. Dupont
273 January 23, 1992
71
Building Associates, a Florida limited partnership instead of a general
partnership. Is that correct?
Mr. Mustars: Correct.
Mr. Castaneda: And I just want to put that on the record.
Commissioner De Yurre: Then it's not a corporation?
Mr. Castaneda: I'm sorry, Commissioner.
Mr. McDowell: It's not a corporation, no. It's a limited partnership.
Mr. Castaneda: It's a limited partnership.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Call the roll.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner De Yurre, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-56
A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO SUBMIT AN
AMENDMENT TO THE APPROVED SEVENTEENTH (17TH) YEAR
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) PROGRAM FINAL
STATEMENT TO THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN
DEVELOPMENT (HUD) TO REFLECT A PROPOSED ALLOCATION OF
FUNDS IN THE AMOUNT OF $8,000,000 FOR A COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT "FLOAT LOAN" FOR LOW AND MODERATE INCOME
HOUSING, SUBJECT TO THE AVAILABILITY OF FUNDS, AND TO
REFLECT A TECHNICAL INCREASE IN REVENUES BY SAID
AMOUNT PLUS INTEREST AMOUNT TO BE DETERMINED AT A
LATER DATE; FURTHER DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER, UPON
APPROVAL OF SAID AMENDMENT BY HUD, TO BRING BEFORE THE
COMMISSION FOR ITS REVIEW AND APPROVAL ALL NECESSARY
AGREEMENTS FOR A PROPOSED LOAN TO THE DUPONT BUILDING
GENERAL ASSOCIATES, A FLORIDA LIMITED PARTNERSHIP.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
NOES: Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
ABSENT: Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
274
January 23, 1992
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: At this point, Agenda item 17
was withdrawn.
28. INSTRUCT MANAGER TO MEET WITH REPRESENTATIVES OF BETTER WAY MIAMI
CONCERNING THE SHELTER PLUS CARE PROGRAM IN ORDER TO DRAFT PROPOSED
LEASE FOR USE OF BECKHAM HALL IN CONNECTION WITH A SUBSTANCE ABUSE
PROGRAM FOR THE HOMELESS, AND BRING BEFORE THE COMMISSION A
RECOMMENDATION AT THE FIRST MEETING IN FEBRUARY.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Item 14.
Commissioner Plummer: Did I understand previously that 17 has been withdrawn?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, it has. And that will complete the morning agenda.
Mr. Duke McBride: Madam Vice Mayor. More tough policy making. My name is
Duke McBride. Again, I'm residing at 200 S.W. 25th Road, Miami, Florida. I'm
accompanied here tonight by Beth Lang, the Executive Director of Better Way of
Miami and as you all know, I'll just cut to the chase. We have received from
you, and through your very gratuitous offer to give us housing at the location
of Beckham Hall. We have since then made extensive renovations to the site
and we are glad to do so to a building that is owned by the City of Miami.
However, we have before us an opportunity for application to a federal program
called Shelter Plus Care. As you know, our application for standard mod -rehab
under the SRO (Single Room Occupancy) program was not honored by the Federal
government last year and this year the only funded program is Shelter Plus
Care and it works in the same fashion. It provides rent subsidies,
rehabilitation funds; however, the hitch is that under Shelter Plus Care the
agencies must provide other services in one of three areas. Either substance
abuse, HIV positive or persons with AIDS or mentally ill persons. We have
joined hands, Better Way with the Coalition of the Homeless, Metropolitan Dade
County and the City of Miami, to apply jointly with Better Way supplying
substance abuse services, Genesis supplying services to those persons homeless
with AIDS, and Miami Mental Health providing the mental health services to
these homeless. This is a multi -million... - I'm sorry - New Horizons
providing the mental health services. This is a multi -million dollar
contract. Just the Better Way portion of this contract will result, should we
be the successful applicant, in 1.4 million federal dollars coming here for
services to that population with no cost to the City of Miami. However, the
only obstacle we need overcome right now is that we need to display to the
Federal government that we have what they deem as site control. And site
control, in their eyes, is either deed or a minimum ten-year lease on the
property. The only opposition to this from an administrative level, I'm sure
would be certain articles, like 29 (B) of the City Municipal Charter regarding
the lease of public lands and I would submit to you that there is an exception
to 29 (B) that deals specifically with Local 501 (C)'s that are providing
either shelter or low-income housing, both of which could be facilitated at
275 January 23, 1992
this site with the federal dollars that we're trying to attract here. Again,
at no cost to the City. When we originally endeavored last Spring to acquire
this property, there was a letter that went from the Administration to the
State of Florida to Governor Chiles and Secretary Sadowski that stated that
the State of Florida would give up their lease rights and vacate that property
if the City of Miami indeed did have the intentions and the policy to utilize
that property in a homeless capacity, which you have done. I'm just asking
that perhaps this Commission can, because we're under time constraints here
with the application, the deadline, and because we're doing this at no cost to
the City, I would urge this Commission to uphold and reaffirm your policy that
that is what you would like to have done with that site and perhaps have us
begin agreements with the City Administration to be brought back to you to
facilitate that site control lease.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Will it mean that the City of Miami will have to go in a
long-term lease with you? Because you mentioned ten years at one point.
Mr. McBride: Yes, ma'am. That's what it would mean. It would mean the City
of Miami would have to provide us with a minimum ten-year lease and we could
also build in that that would be contingent on the award of this contract.
Should we not be awarded the contract for some reason, we would then waive the
ten-year lease back to its existing revocable permit.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I'd like to hear from the Administration, how do you feel
about this?
Mr. Sergio Rodriguez: I'm not ready to address this issue because I wasn't
expecting to address it myself. I'm trying to get the Manager to come over.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Do you need an answer from us tonight?
Mr. McBride: Well, unfortunately, we have a deadline in approximately three
weeks for this application and we have already passed the deadline for the
preliminary application period. The City and the County's deadline is in mid -
February.
Commissioner Plummer: What is the County offering?
Mr. McBride: Well, Dade... Metropolitan Dade County has substantially
supported the part of that application that New Horizons... they own that
building and have given them the appropriate site control as well as fund that
program because program services are not funded under Shelter Plus Care, just
the rehab and the rent subsidy. We, as Better Way, are providing the program
services already and, therefore, the City of Miami isn't responsible. Keep in
mind that all three of these programs are already in the City of Miami
servicing residents of the City.
Commissioner Plummer: Would all three programs be under that roof?
Mr. McBride: Oh, no, no, no. In their already existing locations. Genesis
is existing already here off of Bayshore and New Horizons is located in
several locations, both in unincorporated Dade and the City of Miami.
276 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: So, basically will it be the same type of program that
you've been carrying on in that facility?
Mr. McBride: Identical program. All we would be able to do now is acquire
large amounts of federal dollars to maintain it and rehabilitate a building
that you own.
Joel Maxwell, Esq.: Madam Vice Mayor. I believe there was a legal question
on the floor, too, as to whether or not the City had the authority to lease
the property instead of to grant a revocable permit.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Maxwell: Now we have, in the City Attorney's office, have looked very
carefully that, not particularly, not just because of Better Way, but along
with Better Way and other institutions that may be in that situation, and we
are now of the opinion that the provision or the leasing of City -owned
property to institutions or indiv:.ivals for purposes of providing homeless
services falls within the 29 (B) Affordable Housing Exemption. Therefore, the
City could lease that property, or dispose of that property, without going to
competitive bidding. I did have a question that I believe,... Is it Mr.
McBride?
Mr. McBride: Yes, sir.
Mr. Maxwell: That Mr. McBride answered and that would deal with the ratio of
use on the property. The amount of use that would be devoted to homeless as
opposed to the use that would be for the other uses, for the drug rehab and
for AIDS and stuff like that. He indicated, correct me if I'm wrong, you
indicated that on that site, it would be purely for homeless and the other
sites would be used for the other purposes. Is that correct?
Mr. McBride: Oh, yes. Absolutely. Correct.
Mr. Maxwell: If that's the case, we believe that you don't have a legal
obstacle to leasing the property, to them or any other institution for
purposes of providing homeless assistance.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. What's the pleasure of the Commission? Do we have a
motion on this?
Commissioner Plummer: I, uh...
Mr. Odio: I think the fair thing to do really, in the long term, and I've
been thinking a lot about those buildings because of the proposed swap at one
time, is to at some point have a public hearing to determine what should go or
not go in those buildings before we go out on an RFP (request for proposal) or
competitive bidding, whatever we need to do legally to award a lease of any
type.
Commissioner Dawkins: What is he talking about leasing?
Mr. Odio: They're talking about Beckham Hall.
277 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Beckham Hall.
Commissioner Plummer: Beckham Hall.
Mr. McBride: It was a prison up until two months ago, Mr. - Commissioner.
Mr. Odio: But my saying is, you know, in fairness to the committee that since
I remember clearly when we talked about a swap for the homeless, we had people
here saying no way there either. So, the fair thing to do, I think, before we
make a final decision on what that property should ever be, long term, is to
have a public hearing.
Commissioner Dawkins: You know, I have to say...
Mr. McBride: There are two public hearings...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Excuse me, excuse me. Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: Let me say to Mr. McBride. Mr. McBride, when you came
down here with, the first time to get the use of Beckham Hall, I was with you.
Now you want to expand the use. When I come back, you're going to expand the
use. No. No. OK? Now, when you came down here, you had a specific goal in
mind. You have met that goal. Now you want to expand on that goal.
Mr. McBride: Well, we haven't exactly met that goal yet. We have still to
overcome two scheduled public hearings coming up in the next three weeks.
Commissioner Dawkins: But have you... are you housing or servicing the
clientele that you told me you wanted to serve?
Mr. McBride: Not at Beckham Hall. We aren't permitted to do that until after
the public hearings, sir. We have made renovations, extensive renovations to
the site, but we have not yet occupied the site because we have to wait for
first the zoning and then Commission review.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right. All right. When you get whatever you are
fighting for, what's the maximum amount of bodies you're going to put at
Beckham Hall?
Ms. Beth Lang: Hi, Mr. Dawkins. My name's Beth Lang. I'm Director of the
program. The anticipated amount of folks we would be housing in the one wing,
which is all that we had started out to do, would be approximately sixty.
There is another...
Commissioner Dawkins: Sixty? Sixty?
Ms. Lang: Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK, go ahead.
Ms. Lang: There is another wing to that property which would give us another
perhaps forty to forty-five units. To expand the program and to renovate that
whole wing and that whole end of that building, which is something that, from
the standpoint of the neighborhood and security of the property, would be
extremely beneficial.
278 January 23, 1992
�
Vice Mayor Alonso: Is... Excuse me.
Ms. Lang: The problem that we have right now 1s that this particular program,
the Shelter Plus Care program, the HUD ten-year arrangement, would give us
that ability to do that and to also fund the program that we're running now.
Mr. McBride: Incidentally, Commissioner Dawkins, we would be reducing...
Commissioner Dawkins: What is the total number of bodies that you intend to
service at the facility?
Mr. McBride: At the whole complex, if we received this award from the Federal
government, one hundred and five, which is approximately half of its previous
occupancy as used when it was a prison.
Commissioner Dawkins: So you intend to service one hundred and five people?
Mr. McBride: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: No more than a hundred and five people?
Mr. McBride: No, sir. And also we are subject to the municipal zoning laws
of the City of Miami and we would have to abide by your already existing
ordinances requiring a limit to the number of persons served at that site.
Commissioner Dawkins: I'll ask my question again. Maybe I can get a yes or
no answer. You intend to serve only one hundred and five people at the
facility? Now, henceforth and forever more.
Mr. McBride: Period. Unequivocally.
Commissioner Plummer: How long is the grant for?
Mr. McBride: Ten years.
Commissioner Plummer: The grant is for ten years?
Mr. McBride: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Is that a million dollars over ten years or...
Mr. McBride: A million four over ten years, including the rent subsidy with
the renovation funds forthcoming at...
Commissioner Plummer: So, it's a hundred and forty thousand a year.
Mr. McBride: Well, not exactly, sir. There's a renovation portion of that
where we would be receiving block funds to do the renovation and then the
balance of it would be spread out over the ten years.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Maxwell.
Mr. Maxwell: Yes, sir.
279 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Dawkins: How do I structure into the lease that if at any time
the population at that facility exceeds a hundred and five people, that I - I
probably won't be here as a City Commissioner - but the City Commission can
evict them?
Mr. Maxwell: You just make that a term of the agreement, sir. That they
cannot exceed that cap. If they exceed that cap, they're in breach of the
contract.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK, I'll tell you what. Mr. Manager, when you draw up
the agreement, you put it at a hundred and three, so if I find a hundred and
five, we'll be in good shape.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, may I inquire, the public hearings are when?
Mr. McBride: The first set of public hearings is before the zoning board of
the City of Miami on the loth of February, 1992. The Commission review of
that will be scheduled for the next following Commission meeting, which I
believe is the 13th or the 18th of February. And we were... Both of those
public hearings, we are not asking for variances or any variance to the
municipal ordinance. This is...
Commissioner Plummer: What is the purpose of...
Mr. McBride: ... to abide by the ordinance as it's currently written.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Special permit?
Mr. McBride: It's a change of use on the special exception because we're not
going to be housing prisoners anymore there.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: I, you know, I realize the time frame but I sure would
feel a lot more comfortable after the public hearings. I mean, if we're going
to go ahead and go with them on this contract, the public hearings are almost
a waste of time.
Commissioner Dawkins: And Mariano Cruz will be here.
Mr. McBride: Not if we can't take occupancy.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. Cruz will be here.
Commissioner Plummer: What?
Mr. McBride: Whether or not we have the lease, if we can't take occupancy,
then it's voided anyway.
Mr. Maxwell: You make the lease subject to them obtaining all necessary
zoning permits and satisfying all other regulations that might apply to that
property. If they don't meet that, then null and void.
280 January 23, 1992
11
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, are you ready to make a motion?
Commissioner Dawkins: I don't know. Ask her.
Commissioner De Yurre: What is the urgency for having that lease at this
point in time?
Mr. McBride: Because the application deadline that the City of Miami and
Metro Dade have to meet to apply for this funding is in three weeks. And we
just have to be able to display site control to complete that application.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me tell you where I'm at. Three weeks puts
you about the 15th of February?
Mr. McBride: I believe it's the third week,of February.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. At the best, the 17th. I would feel more
comfortable gauging the reactions of the public hearing on the loth and we
could then act on the issue on the 13th.
Commissioner De Yurre: The public hearing's on the loth?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Do you understand what he...
Mr. McBride: I understand. My only problem is I was just informed that while
the final application to Washington is at the end, next week is the final
application to the local district head office for our inspection and the
City's inspection. For next week.
Vice Mayor Alonso: So you have to have an answer from us prior to that date?
Mr. McBride: And I think we could accomplish what you wanted, Commissioner,
by building into it that it is strictly subject to all of the zoning hearings
and approvals.
Mr. Maxwell: One other question we would have, though. I haven't heard
anything about terms. We don't know what the Commission's desire might be
regarding the terms of this lease. You may authorize the City Manager to
execute the lease, but you haven't told us what terms you want in that lease.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, one of the provisions I heard sounded very good
to me and that is we can charge them rent.
Mr. Maxwell: Yeah, but how much rent?
Mr. McBride: Well, I would...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, that's yet to be...
Mr. McBride: My most favorite recommendation would be that the terms would
mirror our revocable permit.
Commissioner Plummer: And how much rent are you going to pay us?
281 January 23, 1992
Mr. McBride: A dollar a year.
Commissioner Plummer: A dollar a year.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's very exciting.
Mr. McBride: And that, Commissioner, the reason why the City of Miami is
getting away... or being participating in this without any kind of costs to
you is because we are including what the value...
Commissioner Plummer: To what extent...
Mr. McBride: ... of that property would be if we leased it from you.
Commissioner Plummer: To what...
Mr. McBride: That is the City's contribution to this program.
Commissioner Plummer: To what extent of the percentage does the Federal
government in their grant allow you to pay rent?
Mr. McBride: Pardon me, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Usually Federal grants stipulate that only a certain
percentage can be used to pay rent. How much is...
Mr. McBride: Oh. That is only for the client. The client can only utilize
thirty percent of his own personal income and that's where the rent subsidy
comes in.
Commissioner Plummer: How much can you pay the City?
Mr. McBride: How much do we, will we pay the City?
Commissioner Plummer: No, I said how much can you pay the City from the
grant?
Mr. McBride: Oh. No, we can't pay the City anything from the grant. In
fact, it's just the opposite. The City, instead of having to have a cash
involvement has an in -kind involvement with the value, market value, of the
property which we have assessed at close to $75,000 a year. And you're
getting a renovation of your property at no cost to you.
Commissioner Dawkins: Let me ask a silly question. Mr. City Attorney.
Mr. Maxwell: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: Commissioner De Yurre and I are desirous of attempting
to do something with Bobby Maduro Stadium. We don't care what it is. If, in
the event that we are able...
Commissioner Plummer: What's this conspiracy?
282 January 23, 1992
dQ*\1 Oki
Commissioner Dawkins: ... to convince some sports entity to get involved and
we can develop the Bobby Maduro Stadium, and we can make the State of Florida
be as generous to us as it was to Joe Robbie by having them open an entrance
on 95 on 20th Street, and we decide that because we have the interest on 20th
Street to 95, we have a viable area and we are desirous of developing it.
What happens if we decide to go from the stadium all the way to 28th Street
and all the way over to the Omni? What happens to this lease?
Mr. Maxwell: Well, I'll assume what you're saying is that that would include
the property that you are now leasing to these people.
Commissioner Dawkins: Just as sure as I'm sitting here.
Mr. Maxwell: Well, they have a lease, sir, and they have vested rights there
and it will probably cost us money to get them out of there. It could become
very expensive.
Commissioner De Yurre: A lease or a revocable permit?
Mr. Maxwell: No, they have asked for a lease.
Commissioner Dawkins: All right.
that I do not be boxed in?
Commissioner Plummer: You can't.
Mr. Maxwell: Well, they can agree.
Then how can you structure the lease so
Commissioner Dawkins: Beg your pardon?
Mr. Maxwell: They can... If they would agree to the terms...
Commissioner Dawkins: No, they don't have any choice. That's my land.
Mr. Maxwell: No, no, I'm saying that...
Commissioner Dawkins: No, they don't have a... Don't tell me if they agree,
tell me when they agree. See, because I want you to have them understand. If
they don't agree, I don't agree.
Mr. Maxwell: What I'm saying is that if that is one of your requirements,
then they would have to agree to that in order to get the lease. That would
be one of the terms of the lease. That it would provide that under certain
circumstances the City could come back. If they agree to the terms of that,
then the City can do it. However, there's one other point I want to make
sure...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Could they qualify for the funding if that is the case?
Mr. Maxwell: I don't know. They would have to answer that and I doubt it
very seriously. But I want to make sure that what they are providing on those
premises is shelter. What they're talking about at the Beckham Hall facility
is shelter.
283 January 23, 1992
Mr. McBride: Correct.
Mr. Maxwell: That's what we're talking about, you know, actually housing
people.
Mr. McBride: Yes, sir.
Mr. Maxwell: And that's the predominant service being provided.
Mr. McBride: Correct.
Mr. Maxwell: That is a major requirement, in our opinion, for satisfying the
29 (B) exception. It can't be for just services. It has to be for providing
shelter there.
Mr. McBride: Of course.
Mr. Maxwell: Now, in other words, we're talking about a form of housing.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's exactly what they do.
Mr. McBride: And we do it with, at our current location, with the
extraordinary support of the Edgewater neighborhood.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Mr. Manager, were you going to say something?
Mr. Odio: No, I was just asking a question to the Attorney. They are getting
a grant from the Federal government based on that property they are going to
own?
Mr. McBride: No. No. No.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Long-term lease. Ten years.
Mr. McBride: Just site control.
Mr. Odio: Well you're going to own the property for ten years. You're going
to have the right to that property for ten years. If and when you remove
them, let's say two years from now you need the property to do something with
the stadium, what happens to the federal grant at that point and the
improvements to the property? So those are questions we need to...
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's why I say probably you will not qualify for this
grant if this is the case.
Mr. Maxwell: People can agree to almost anything. And if they have a grant
from the Federal government, they have... it is their responsibility to make
sure that they satisfy the terms of that agreement. If they have agreed with
the City, agreed to the City's terms for the lease, and it's clear in the
lease agreement and all other necessary agreements, any ancillary agreements
that we feel necessary to execute as a result of your decision, if it's clear
in that and the parties have agreed that they will assume the risk, that they
will vacate the property, well then 1 don't think that we need... - They of
course could go to court, but I think we would be in a strong position to
284 January 23, 1992
prevail if that occurred. But the agreements would have to be very clear on
. that and if the government still decides to give them the money, I think a=
that's their problem.
Commissioner Plummer: How could you do that if the Federal government says
they've got to have total site control for ten years? You're taking that
provision away from them. And I understand and agree with what you're saying
but my understanding is site control means they will control the site for ten
years.
Commissioner Dawkins: Is that a part of the grant? Is that a requirement?
Mr. McBride: We have to have a lease,...
Commissioner Dawkins: Oh, wait now.
Mr. McBride: ... either deed or a lease for ten years.
Commissioner Dawkins: Beg your pardon? That is a part of the...
Commissioner Plummer: Federal grant.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Federal grant.
Commissioner Dawkins: You have to have control for ten years.
Mr. McBride: We have to have a lease for ten years is the way it specifically
is written out in the guidelines. A minimum of ten years. And if there are
provisions to that lease that could protect the City, barring any unforeseen
future development prospects in the area, then that may or may not, and I can
get a determination from a Federal HUD (Housing and Urban Development) on
that. But at least it's a step in the right direction. We're trying to
attract some very, very large money here.
Commissioner Plummer: Why in the City of Miami?
Commissioner Dawkins: Why would it be a large investment of money if you're
going to get the money annually and if you are not there, you will not receive
the money?
Mr. McBride: Precisely.
Commissioner Dawkins: So...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well. Do we have a position? Do we want to go into some
sort of agreement?
Commissioner Dawkins: We defer to the senior citizen, J. L. Plummer.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Senior citizen. I guess that's you, Commissioner Plummer.
Commissioner Plummer: Huh? Well, I don't see anything wrong with waiting
until the 13th.
285 January 23, 1992
r.71
Mr. McBride: Perhaps if I could offer one suggestion.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Please do. Please do.
Mr. McBride: Perhaps the Administration and Better Way could actually develop
the lease for presentation at the February 13th Commission meeting. That will
have accomplished both of our public hearings. The zoning hearing on the loth
and then the Commission hearing which is...
Commissioner Plummer: I have no problem with them negotiating a lease with
you for presentation at the 13th...
Mr. McBride: Which is also the second public hearing.
Commissioner Plummer: ... as long as they inform us as to what took place on
the loth.
Mr. McBride: Very good.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Do we need to take any action on that?
Mr. McBride: That's the best we can do right now.
Mr. Maxwell: I think what they have asked for is that you can accomplish in a
motion just directing the, or authorizing the City Manager to begin
negotiations.
Mr. Odio: But you do want a quick release. In other words, that on thirty
day notice they are to vacate the property...
Vice Mayor Alonso: A revocable permit?
Mr. Odio: ... as the City requires. That will be included in the...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Then it will defeat the purpose of the lease.
Mr. McBride: That's... Again goes back to the revocable permit. What I was
hoping for...
Mr. Odio: No, I'm talking about this lease as I heard the Commissioners say
that we have to have an "out" to the lease at any cost.
Mr. McBride: Should you have a substantial development project in the area.
Mr. Odio: Should the City require at any time. It doesn't have to spell
out... Is that what I'm... I need some instruction in that area.
Commissioner Plummer: That's...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Subject...
Mr. Odio: That what you want? OK.
286 January 23, 1992
Mr. Maxwell: This will be a lease that will come back to you. You just, at
this time just understand, that you will be authorizing the City Manager to
initiate negotiations in drafting the lease, but the lease would have to come
back to you at the next meeting.
Mr. Odio: No, no, no, at the meeting of February 13th.
Mr. Maxwell: February 13th. All right. It would come back to you at that
time. Nothing would be executed until such time as you approve the lease.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, it's not coming back because the lease isn't in
front of us now.
Mr. McBride: Right.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Exactly. So, it's coming for the first time.
Commissioner Plummer, do you put that in the form of a motion?
Commissioner Plummer: I have, you know, the Manager doesn't have much to do
and he sits up there and spins his wheels, so I will make a motion to direct
the Manager to sit down and discuss a potential lease with these people to
possibly be brought back on the 13th of February.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK, do we have a second? Madam Clerk, would you call the
roll?
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved
its adoption:
MOTION NO. 92-57
A MOTION INSTRUCTING THE CITY MANAGER TO MEET WITH
REPRESENTATIVES OF BETTER WAY CONCERNING THE SHELTER
PLUS CARE PROGRAM IN ORDER TO DRAFT A PROPOSED LEASE
FOR USE OF BECKHAM HALL AS A SHELTER FOR THE HOMELESS;
FURTHER DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO DISCUSS AND
PREPARE SAID POTENTIAL LEASE AND TO COME BACK WITH A
RECOMMENDATION AT THE MEETING PRESENTLY SCHEDULED FOR
FEBRUARY 13TH.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner De Yurre, the motion was passed and
adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
Mr. McBride: If I could, I'd like to pass this out.
287 January 23, 1992
t
y{
ii-------------_.-_.-------------------------------------------------------_--_---
29. INSTRUCT ADMINISTRATION TO EXPEDITE PROCESS OF APPLICATION BY CAROLINE
WEISS FOR PLAT AT N.W. 7 STREET EAST OF N.W. 51 AVENUE (TOWERS OF BLUE
LAGOON PLAT NO. 1349-D), AND TO BRING IT BEFORE THE COMMISSION AT SECOND
MEETING IN MARCH.
Commissioner De Yurre: Madam Vice Mayor, before we get into the PZ area, I
have a...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Just one minute, Commissioner.
Commissioner De Yurre: Caroline Weiss that wanted to address the Commission
for a moment.
Mrs. Caroline Weiss: Hello. My name is Caroline Weiss, 701 S.W. 27th Avenue
and I'm here as President of Intercontinental Properties. I would like to
request an appeal to the City that my plat be extended to be approved by the
City Commission for re -submission at the next hearing, which is in February.
My plat expires on January the 11th and this is the first hearing in January.
My plans have been submitted for the past four years to the City of Miami and
one of the reasons why the plat could not be completed by itself, because I'm
doing construction at the same time. So when the plans by the City is
approved something comes up with the plat and vice versa and I've been going
with this . now for the past four years. I have here four sets of building
applications which have been signed and the last one had been submitted on
October the 22nd, 1991. So, due to hardship and the amount of time that I
have spent on this, I would like this to be re -submitted for the plat approval
at the next hearing. And at the same time, that the plans fall under the 9500
code which expires in December.
Commissioner De Yurre: Let me ask the Administration. You've been dealing
with this issue.
Mr. Jim Kay: Yes, sir. I have. Her problem is this and the City code is
quite clear. The applicant of a plat has one year between the time that the
approval is given for the tentative plat by the Plat and Street Committee
until the time the City Commission approves the final plat. Her time limit
was up January lath of this year, her one-year time limit. So she has to
start over again.
Commissioner De Yurre: Now, have there been any circumstances which, I'm sure
she's alluding to, that have created a delay in the process on the
Administration's side or, you know, why has it been this delay?
Mr. Kay: She needed to get approval, I believe, and the Zoning Administrator
can confirm this, December 31st and by the approval of a permit by the
Building and Zoning Department and she did not obtain that approval.
Commissioner De Yurre: Why?
Mr. Kay: Because she did not have a recorded plat.
288 January 23, 1992
Ll
Commissioner De Yurre: Why didn't she have a recorded plat?
Mr. Kay: Because she hasn't come in with all of the documents.
Mrs. Weiss: I'd like to respond, if I may. The master plan for the City of
Miami, which was approved in September of 1989 by the State of Florida, has
created a lot of changes and the zoning calculation has delayed quite a bit.
When they request that it has to go under the 9500, by the time the plans are
submitted and ready to be pulled, then they say, oh, the 9500 is no longer
existing, you have to go by the 1100. So I take the plans, I recalculate, I
do the drawings all over under the 1100. By the time I submit to the 1100,
they say, well you know they have extended the 9500. So now I go back to the
9500. I have four sets of building applications here and, as a result of
hardship, I'm requesting and appealing to the City of Miami that I re -submit
my plat on the next hearing even though it expired now. And under the
regulation of the City of Miami, 2105, if I had my plat back then, the City of
Miami can approve a building permit within a hundred and eighty days. So,
technically I'm not asking anything that would not have been given to anyone
else as a courtesy. We are talking here about fifteen million dollars in
construction. I think the City of Miami economy can use these dollars for the
construction on N.W. 7th Street and I don't understand where it is a hardship
for me to disregard all these plans. I have people here from the CRSS which
has been hired as general contractors for this project at the cost of twenty-
five thousand dollars, just to process and follow the building permit.
Mr. Kay: Commissioner, she does not have a recorded plat on her property...
Commissioner De Yurre: I've heard that before.
Mr. Kay: ... and that is the reason why the permit could not be issued by the
Building and Zoning Department.
Commissioner De Yurre: But what about all this situation about flip-flopping
9500, 1100, 9500 again and she's having to submit, re -submit and re -submit
again.
Mr. Kay: I'm going to let the Zoning Administrator answer that question.
Mr. Joseph Genuardi: Well, originally she submitted her plans prior to the
effective date of Ordinance eleven thousand and she had a deadline in which
the permit had to be pulled by March, I forget the exact date. She couldn't
get the permit at that time, so she lost her rights to get a permit under
9500. However, we amended the ordinance subsequent to that extending the time
limit to December 31st. So she re -submitted then the plans under 9500.
However, the plat hasn't been recorded yet and the City code says that we
cannot issue a permit on an un-platted property. So that's the problem there.
Mrs. Weiss: And if I may address. I could not record the plat because when
we have meetings on the... If I was platting just a plain property with no
construction on it, it would take no time. But because we are reflecting that
there will be two towers on it, the Plat Division and the Fire Department is
constantly asking for changes. I was with the Fire Department for
approximately one year. Something that is allowed for Brickell Avenue to have
289 January 23, 1992
town house apartments on the last two floors is not allowed on this project
and I keep going back and forth with changes that are required by the
different agencies, even if it is not part of the ordinance. But because I
have to kiss ass to get this project done, I do it and I go back and forward,
back and forward changing these plans to meet the needs of the officers of the
City of Miami Building Department.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: You know, it's amazing. I've been here eleven years
and Caroline Weiss has been before this Commission ever since I have been here
= and every time she gets a project to try to get it going, it looks like the
City of Miami is determined that she will not build in the City of Miami.
Now, and I don't mean the Administration, I mean just the City of Miami. And
every time she gets to a point and because of regulations or because of
something, she loses her financial backing or she... or something happens.
Now here she is here again today with another project and for some reason, I
don't know why, she can't build. As bad as we need construction jobs in the
City of Miami... I mean, some kind of a way I would... I mean, I could accept
it more if you told me we worked with her and she didn't meet the requirements
or we bent over backwards and spoon fed her and led her down the path and she
turned around, I could understand it. But to tell me that she didn't get the
land platted and drop it there, you know, after knowing how many times and how
many disappointments she's had, I mean, I have a problem with that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Let's see if we can find a solution. In order to cut
some of these because we have some other items that we have to complete
tonight. Give us the answer, how we can help her and resolve the problem.
Mr. Kay: I have told her that she should submit her tentative plat approval
again... submit her... start at the beginning, submit her tentative plat
before the plat and street committee...
Vice Mayor Alonso: You mean start all over again?
Mrs. Weiss: I think it's unfair. There is no hardship and there is no damage
to the City of Miami for me to come back next month and get the City of Miami
as an automatic blanket situation to approve my plat when everything is on it.
And the City... and the legal department requires the time to check the
documents.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Let's hear from Commissioner Dawkins.
Commissioner Dawkins: When I asked the Administration what will it cost for
Mrs. Weiss to go back through this process?
Mr. Kay: She would pay a fee, I think it's a $350 fee to the department, she
would...
Commissioner Dawkins: A what?
Vice Mayor Alonso: A hundred and fifty?
Mr. Kay: Three hundred fifty.
290 January 23, 1992
loom
Vice Mayor Alonso: Three hundred and fifty.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK. Whatever.
Mr. Kay: Start over again with the platting process.
Mrs. Weiss: Which has...
Commissioner Dawkins: And you're talking about how long?
Mr. Kay: Well, she...
Mrs. Weiss: Six months.
Mr. Kay: ... gets approval by...
Mrs. Weiss: Six to eight months.
Mr. Kay: ... approval by the Plat...
Mrs. Weiss: Six months.
Mr. Kay: ... and Street Committee... approval by the Plat and Street
Committee. After she gets approval by the Plat and Street Committee, then she
submits for the final plat, which goes before this Commission. And it depends
on how quickly she wants to submit any required... things that are required...
Commissioner Dawkins: What is required?
Mr. Kay: Opinions of title, agreements...
Commissioner Dawkins: What?
Mrs. Weiss: I have all this here with me right now to leave with the City
Commission. I have everything here with me right now to leave it. And have
it signed off next month. I think it's unfair.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Excuse me. Excuse me one minute. Can she bring all of
these papers to you and come in front of us for approval in the next
Commission meeting?
Mr. Kay: No, she can't, because...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Why not?
Mrs. Weiss: Why not?
Mr. Kay: Because the year has expired.
Commissioner Dawkins: The what has expired?
Vice Mayor Alonso: We know that. We are trying to...
291 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no, I think the question being asked, can she
start all over by giving you the...
Mr. Kay: If she starts all over again, it's a three-month process.
Mrs. Weiss: Minimum.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Let's put it this way. How can we cut the three months
and make it less time? And if we want, we can do it. How do we do it? Tell
me how, because we want to get this issue resolved now. How do we do i t?
Tell us how to cut all of this time because I have seen, through the history
of the City of Miami, when we want to cut time with a plat, we have done that
before. I know.
Mr. Kay: The Plat and Street Committee will meet the first Friday of February
to consider all the items for the... that are on the agenda. If she gets on
that agenda, we can consider it for the Plat and Street Committee...
Commissioner Dawkins: Mrs. ... Madam...
Mr. Kay: ... and then...
Commissioner Dawkins: Madam Vice Mayor. I'd like to make a motion.
Mr. Kay: ... if she can cooperate and get all of her documents in, then we
could be ready in March.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: Madam City...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank God, we have a motion here.
Commissioner Dawkins: Madam, let me make a motion.
Commissioner Plummer: Wait, wait. If the first Friday in February is the
7th, and we don't meet until the 13th and they... assuming they approve it,
why can't it be here on the 13th?
Commissioner Dawkins: That's my motion, J. L.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I was hoping.
Commissioner Dawkins: I make a motion that the Administration be instructed
to walk through this with Mrs. Weiss, go with Mrs. Weiss to the platting,
whatever, take this Monday morning, or in the morning...
Mrs. Weiss: They have all the documents already.
Mrs. Weiss: You don't have a vote up here. Now keep quiet, Caroline. You
don't have a vote up here. I'm trying to get this motion through. OK? OK?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Just a minute. Caroline, just give us one minute to
resolve this problem. Let him finish.
292 January 23, 1992
Y
Commissioner Dawkins: And that they walk through and go to the Platting
Committee with her on the 3rd and come back here with approval of the plat
because it's going to be approved because they're going to work with her to be
sure it's approved and bring it back here for us to approve on the 13th. And
that's my motion.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I'll second the motion, but 1 have a question.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK.
Mr. Kay: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: There's another portion of this here that I don't
understand and that is the request that these approvals be subject to the code
of 9500. That can't be?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Sergio, you're saying no. No what?
Mr. Sergio Rodriguez: In order to do that, you have to amend the ordinance
and make an exception and allow this project and any other project to have
the... to be grandfathered under 9500 which already expired on December 31st.
So you will be opening up this project and any other until a time that you
decide that she will come under to meet the requirements of the Plat and
Street Committee to consider projects under 9500's.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Haven't we seen this before? Something similar to this?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, the Chi...
Mr. Rodriguez: There was Chinatown, I believe you extended from September to
December 31st...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Chinatown.
Mr. Rodriguez: ... and that's when you opened up and gave a grace period for
Chinatown and you know what happened there.
Vice Mayor Alonso: We didn't know then. How...
Commissioner Plummer: Nothing.
Mr. Rodriguez: Well what you did... you took the ordinance that we had and
you extended the grace period until December 31st and at that point...
Commissioner Plummer: But we did it prior to it expiring.
Mr. Rodriguez: ... people could apply under 9500 still. To be able to review
this under 9500, you will have to again extend the grace period, I guess
retroactive, from December 31st until the time in which this will come before
you after being approved by the Plat and Street Committee.
Commissioner Plummer: Then you got to change the ordinance.
293 January 23, 1992
Mr. Rodriguez: The Plat and Street Committee will have to have all the
information which is a series of requirement. If she can meet that, we can
schedule that right away. I mean as soon as she's ready to meet...
Commissioner Plummer: That's under the 11000.
Mr. Rodriguez: That's 11000.
Mrs. Weiss: All the documents have already been submitted including the
opinion of title. And I would like to...
—� Commissioner Plummer: No, Caroline. Caroline, what he's saying is that we
can walk you through to get the approval of the plat but it has to be under
the 11000.
Mrs. Weiss: It requires completely changing the plans.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. I'm saying is that if we don't do that, then he's
saying, the legal department is saying, we've got to change the ordinance and
there's no way we can change the ordinance by the 13th of February.
Mrs. Weiss: But you can pass an emergency ordinance...
Mr. Rodriguez: No, not in zoning.
Mrs. Weiss: ... to extend it...
Mr. Rodriguez: Not in zoning.
Mrs. Weiss: ... for ninety days for the plans to be approved. I mean, this
can be approved tomorrow...
Mr. Rodriguez: Planning and zoning, you cannot have an emergency. You cannot
pass an emergency.
Mrs. Weiss: ... if there was a hearing. They already have everything within
their hands.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Can we do that?
Mr. Rodriguez: My understanding, and let me get the Legal Department to
confirm it, is that you cannot pass an emergency ordinance in zoning matters.
Miriam Maer, Esq.: That's correct.
Vice Mayor Alonso: So do we have any other alternative?
Mr. Rodriguez: You can schedule a first reading of an ordinance to amend and
to create a grace period going back from December 31st until a time certain in
which this plat will come before you and the second reading some time again in
February which is the next meeting and if it passes in both meetings, this
project and any other project that chooses to go under 11000, we will have to
have public notices which I don't think we're going to meet.
294 January 23, 1992
r
Commissioner Plummer: Well wait a minute now. When we did it for Chinatown,
we did it with the provisos any other projects that had their application in =-
prior to the deadline, and I'm sure that's what we would want to do again here
because this obviously is the only one. -
}Vice Mayor Alonso: It certainly won't open the door to everyone. It will -
i just be the one that was in.
Ms. Maer: You can't... the ordinance would have to be amended so that anyone
71 who met the requirements would be to apply.
Commissioner Plummer: As of a certain date.
Ms. Maer: It can't be just as a particular project.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no. As to a certain date. That's how we did it
with the Chinatown thing.
Ms. Maer: But it's different in Chinatown, because in Chinatown the problem
was...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Was prior to...
Ms. Maer: ... they already had a plat approved. Here we have a City code
requirement...
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, oh. You're right.
Ms. Maer: ... which says that until the plat is recorded, the City cannot...
Mr. Rodriguez: Cannot apply.
Ms. Maer: ... accept the application. So there is no question of an
application pending. There presently is no application pending because the
plat is not recorded.
Commissioner Plummer: The only application we could accept would be under the
1100 is what you're telling us.
Ms. Maer: Right, exactly.
Mr. Rodriguez: Eleven thousand.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Are you saying that they wi11 have to change a lot from
the 9500 to the 11000?
Mr. Rodriguez: I couldn't tell you that because I haven't seen the proposal.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You have no idea.
Mrs. Weiss: Commissioners, my plans have been submitted in total and
yesterday... and they have been run by the City of Miami Building Department
and we picked up all of the comments of all of the different divisions of the
City of Miami Building Department which we have now in the hands of CRSS.
295 January 23, 1992
3 -
1
- Douglas Rogers with CRSS picked up all of the comments. So I have everything
one hundred percent complete. And I think it's a little bit unfair for me to
say, well, you know we cannot pass some emergency ordinance to extend this for
thirty days so that they can look at it and sign off on it. If the Legal
Department can look at it tomorrow, they can sign off on it because I have met all of the requirements that they need.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, we need...
Commissioner De Yurre: What's the shortest time that we're looking at if we
have to amend the ordinance?
Mr. Rodriguez: I'm sorry.
Commissioner De Yurre: The shortest time frame that we're looking at if we
have to amend the ordinance.
Mr. Rodriguez: I would say by... you will be able to finish it by, probably
by March because of the notices to PAB (Planning Advisory Board), going to the
Planning Advisory Board, you know. Then it has to come to you on a first
reading and then it has to come to you back again on the second reading. So
we're talking some time in March.
Commissioner Plummer: What... What is...
Commissioner De Yurre: And can her plans be...
Mr. Rodriguez: And then thirty days after that, it will be in effect.
Commissioner Plummer: How much more restrictive would it be on her...
Commissioner De Yurre: Miller.
Commissioner Plummer: ... to comply with the 11000 than the 9500?
Vice Mayor Alonso: It's a lot.
Mr. Rodriguez: I haven't seen the project myself so I couldn't tell you. But
for some people, it's more advantageous to go under 11000.
Commissioner Plummer: Would this require an amendment to the master plan code
in Tallahassee?
Mrs. Weiss: No.
Mr. Rodriguez: I haven't seen her plans, but I imagine no. But I haven't
seen her plans. I imagine that they are in compliance with the comprehensive
plan. It's just a matter of the particulars of the design of the building.
But again, I haven't seen the plans.
Commissioner Plummer: So what you're saying is that you feel that by the last
meeting in March, we could have all the things in place that are necessary?
296 January 23, 1992
_i.
Mr. Rodriguez: It is possible. If all the information is provided by the
applicant on time and it is correct, and the effective date will be thirty
days after that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Let's...
Mrs. Weiss: I don't know...
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... see if we can find a solution because this,
remember... I think that will be the only way to do it.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't think you have any alternative.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Are you ready to make a motion?
Commissioner De Yurre: I think so.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK.
Commissioner De Yurre: I would make that motion.
Commissioner Plummer: Seconded.
Mr. Rodriguez: What is the motion?
Commissioner Plummer: The motion is to expedite it, to have it back here and
completed by...
Mr. Rodriguez: As soon as possible.
Commissioner Plummer: ... the meeting of March 26th.
Mr. Rodriguez: Amending the ordinance?
Commissioner Plummer: Whatever is necessary, have it done and back here by
March the 26th is what you said you could do.
Mr. Rodriguez: OK. We'll try to do that. We'll put our best effort on that.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, one of the provisions is your job is on the line.
Mr. Rodriguez: Well,...
Vice Mayor Alonso: That will do it.
Mr. Rodriguez: ... sometimes you lose, sometimes you win.
Commissioner Plummer: That'll do it.
Mrs. Weiss: Thank you.
Commissioner Dawkins: Call the roll.
297 January 23, 1992
16
0
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner De Yurre, who moved
its adoption:
MOTION NO. 92-58
A MOTION INSTRUCTING THE ADMINISTRATION TO EXPEDITE
PROCESSING OF CAROLINE WEISS' APPLICATION FOR PLAT
(TOWERS OF BLUE LAGOON PLAT NO. 1349-D) AT N.W. 7
STREET EAST OF N.W. 51 AVENUE; FURTHER INSTRUCTING THE
ADMINISTRATION TO REPORT BACK ON THIS ISSUE AT THE
MEETING PRESENTLY SCHEDULE FOR MARCH 26, 1992, FOR
FINAL APPROVAL BY THE CITY COMMISSION.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the motion was passed and
adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
[NOTE: AT THIS POINT, THE CITY COMMISSION CLOSES
CONSIDERATION OF REGULAR AGENDA ITEMS TO CONSIDER
ITEMS FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING PORTION OF THE
AGENDA.]
30. (A) APPEAL CONCERNING ZONING BOARD'S DECISION TO ALLOW MODIFICATION
TO SPECIAL EXCEPTION PREVIOUSLY APPROVED AT 2852 SHIPPING AVENUE
AND 3121-3125 MARY STREET WITHDRAWN BY BENJAMIN GREER,
PRESIDENT, APOGEE CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATION (Owner / applicant:
Rafael A. Sanchez, President, Sabal Properties).
(B) DISCUSSION CONCERNING POTENTIAL IMPACT TO THE CITY OF THE RECENT
DECISION OF THE MILTON S. JENNINGS VS. DADE COUNTY AND LARRY
SCHATZMAN (THE JENNINGS DECISION) CONCERNING EX PARTE
COMMUNICATIONS ON ZONING MATTERS.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: At this point, agenda items PZ-1
and PZ-2 were continued to February 18, 1992.
298
January 23, 1992
11
Mr. Rodriguez: I would like to also put on the record that PZ-4 has been, the
appeal has been withdrawn by the appellants and I would like also that you ask
that on the record to make sure that we're covered. PZ-4 has been withdrawn,
the appeal by the appellant.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK.
Mr. Rodriguez: And I would like that on the record. We have a letter from
them, the lawyer representing the appellant but you might want to ask if there
is anybody on this issue here.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. PZ-4. Anyone on this item?
Mr. Raul Garcia -Vidal: Yes, Commissioner.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Garcia -Vidal: My name is Raul Garcia -Vidal. My office...
A. Quinn Jones, Esq.: Excuse me, Madam Vice Mayor. Just... and I realize
that you don't have time and the Mayor had planned to bring this up, in the
interest of expediting time, I will be sending to you in great detail because
I know you inquired really the impact of the Jennings decision which will, in
fact, have a great bearing on your activities as you function in a quasi-
judicial capacity, so I just want to make you aware that this issue was
considered at length by the County Commission at its meeting on Wednesday and,
of course, the County Commission did authorize the County Attorney's Office to
appeal it which would be to the Florida Supreme Court. I only want to caution
you that because of the holding in this case in terms of ex parte
communications, it has very far-reaching impact in terms of your dealings and
communications, whether it be with lobbyists, Joe B1oe citizens. It even has
the potential, as we interpret it, to of course apply to different City
boards, whatever. Again, in the interest of moving the agenda along,
whatever, I will be submitting to you in great detail and should you or any of
the Commissioners feel a need that we should sit down and discuss it, I would
be more than happy to do that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: So, let's break that down to common talk. Are you
saying that henceforth from this time forward, that I should refrain from
talking to anyone on either side in relations to a zoning matter?
Mr. Jones: Holding of this case basically says that when you're acting in
your quasi-judicial capacity, that is dealing with variances, special
exceptions, special permits, there is... zoning matters, there is, a... when
there is proof that there has been an ex parte communication, the presumption
arises that it's prejudicial.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm asking in simple language and you're complicating.
Are you saying from henceforth this day forward, that you're advising me
not...
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
299 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: to talk with either side about a present matter _
relating to zoning?
Mr. Jones: According to this case if it does not deal with the actual text of
the case which could be interpreted, or has been interpreted as legislative,
that's the holding of the case. You should avoid those contacts.
Commissioner Plummer: And how do I make that determination of whether it
applies to the text of this case?
Mr. Jones: Zoning text amendments as opposed to what I just mentioned,
variances or special exceptions or special permits, that would be the
distinguishing factor.
i
Vice Mayor Alonso: Terrific.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I can tell you that this individual, every time
someone requests to talk to me, I'm going to send them to you to get it
cleared as to whether or not I can speak with them. OK? So be prepared for
an onslaught of a hundred people per agenda. Because I'm not going to speak
to them based on your recommendation until you have cleared their discussion
with me.
Mr. Jones: Mr. Plummer, I understand and I'm not saying to you that this is
something I've come up with, I'm just advising you what the state of the taw
is. I'm not saying that it's a good decision. I'm only telling you that in
recognition of what this case stands for, that you should be apprised of it
and govern yourselves accordingly.
Commissioner Plummer: But you've put it on the record.
Mr. Jones: Yes, indeed.
Commissioner Plummer: And as such, I want to tell you that henceforth I will
send, until otherwise notified, all people requesting to speak to me on these
issues to your office and I will expect you to give them an appointment so
that it can be cleared as to whether or not I can speak with them.
Joel Maxwell, Esq.: Well, Commissioner Plummer, I have some...
Commissioner Plummer: A timely appointment.
Mr. Maxwell: What the court did was prohibited ex parte communic... quasi-
judicial communications and...
Commissioner Plummer: Almost anybody that walks in my door could be
considered ex parte.
Mr. Maxwell: Well, ex parte means only one side. So if you know it, which
would be very difficult and really doesn't help you, but if it can be
determined that in fact all the parties to a dispute or to a quasi-judicial
proceeding were in fact in your office, then you would not be violating the
Jennings decision. But that's almost impossible for you to do.
300 January 23, 1992
II •
Commissioner Plummer: Then I'm...
Mr. Maxwell: So...
Commissioner Plummer: ... then I'm bordering on a violation of Sunshine.
Mr. Maxwell: What the court has done in fact is apply Sunshine to these
proceedings. They have in fact judicially brought your quasi-judicial
proceedings into the Sunshine.
Commissioner Plummer: I would see it if in fact I denied anybody the right
from either side to come into my office. But I've never done that.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yeah, that's very difficult what we have to do.
Mr. Maxwell: What happens is that... the crux of the decision was that when a
party, one of the parties is not present, then the other party cannot rebut
what was presented to you. So, the record is not clear as to the basis for
your decision, and that's what the Jennings case is all about.
Commissioner Plummer: Boy you lawyers find every way in the world to make
money.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Due to the time, why don't we move to... Did you say
we have an agreement on this?
Mr. Benjamin Greer: Yes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: PZ-4?
Mr. Rodriguez: On item PZ-4...
Vice Mayor Alonso: So you're going to state it on the record.
Mr. Rodriguez: ... I would like the appellant to put on the record that with
his... Mr. Benjamin Greer, President of Apogee, that they have agreed to
withdraw the item.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. So.
Mr. Greer: My name is Ben Greer. I live at 3124 Center Street. I'm the
President of Apogee Homeowners Association and I have withdrawn my appeal.
Mr. Rodriguez: That's all.
Commissioner Plummer: Why couldn't he have just done that in writing?
Mr. Rodriguez: He did write, but...
Mr. Greer: I did.
Vice Mayor Alonso: He did.
301 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: But I'm saying why does it have to even come before us
if he did it in writing?
Mr. Rodriguez: Because, in the past, you have asked us when an item comes
before you, that we cannot withdraw the item without you having an opportunity
to see it.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. So, do we have to do anything else on PZ-4?
Mr. Rodriguez: The item is withdrawn. That's all.
Commissioner Plummer: Four is withdrawn.
Mr. Rodriguez: Item 4 is withdrawn.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. PZ-...
Mr. Garcia -Vidal: The item is dismissed. The appeal is dismissed then.
Thank you:
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Thank you. PZ-...
Mr. Garcia -Vidal: Wait, wait, Madam...
Commissioner Plummer: Well do you want that in a formal action of this
Commission?
Mr. Garcia -Vidal. Excuse me.
Vice Mayor Alonso: PZ-4?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. The Commission denies the appeal.
Mr. Garcia -Vidal: Yeah, I do, sir.
Mr. Maxwell: It's not necessary.
Mr. Rodriguez: It's withdrawn.
Vice Mayor Alonso: It's withdrawn. We don't have to take any action.
Commissioner Plummer: Well what's the City Attorney advise?
Mr. Maxwell: No, sir.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No.
Mr. Maxwell: They have withdrawn the appeal before it was taken up.
Commissioner Plummer: So we don't need to take a formal action of denying the
appeal?
302 January 23, 1992
Mr. Maxwell: No, sir.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, not at all.
Mr. Maxwell: No.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
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31. FIRST READING ORDINANCE: AMEND 11000 ATLAS -- CHANGE DESIGNATION AT
2727-2729 S.W. 27 TERRACE FROM R-2 TWO FAMILY RESIDENTIAL TO C-1
RESTRICTED COMMERCIAL (Owner / Applicant: Daniel A. Kavanaugh and
Elliott Y. Denner).
Vice Mayor Alonso: So PZ-3, please. Will you swear him in?
I' AT THIS POINT THE CITY CLERK ADMINISTERED REQUIRED OATH UNDER ORDINANCE NO.
10511 TO THOSE PERSONS GIVING TESTIMONY ON ZONING ISSUES.
Dan Kavanaugh, Esq.: Madam Vice Mayor, members of the Commission. My name is
Dan Kavanaugh, attorney at law. My address is 2964 Aviation Avenue, Coconut
Grove. I'm here on PZ-3. You can see the information that relates to it on
the agenda sheet and I'd simply advise that it was recommended for approval by
the Planning and Building and Zoning Departments. It passed the Zoning Board
i; unanimously and as far as I understand, there is no opposition to it this
evening. If there is, I'd be happy to address any further remarks you might
like to hear.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Anyone here in opposition to this item?
Commissioner Plummer: It was read on the board.
Vice Mayor Alonso: What is it, recommendation for approval?
Mr. Olmedillo: Yes. In fact the recommendation is for approval and, and just
to have it on the record, this is for property located at 2727 S.W. 27th
Terrace and the change requested is from R-2, family residential, to C-1,
restricted commercial. It is in conformance with the comprehensive plan.
We're recommending approval. The Zoning Board did recommend approval to you
on a nine to zero vote.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Kavanaugh.
Mr. Kavanaugh: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: You're asking the City to do something for you, to
enhance the value of your property. What do you intend in return to do for
the City?:
Mr. Kavanaugh: What do you suggest, Mr. Commissioner?
303 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, I think something for day care, or something in
that nature would surely be in line.
Mr. Kavanaugh: Well,...
Commissioner Plummer: You understand, you have to volunteer it. I'm just
asking.
Mr. Kavanaugh: Well, I understand the nature of a request to volunteer and
the answer is yes.
Commissioner Plummer: And what would you like to proffer?
Mr. Kavanaugh: I think we'd have to give that a little thought and see what
we come up with.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no. You don't get thought on second reading. You
get thought on first reading.
Mr. Kavanaugh: I don't have a specific proposal with me at this time,
Commissioner, but we'd certainly like to do anything that we reasonably could.
Commissioner Plummer: A thousand dollars? Did I hear a thousand dollars for
day care?
Vice Mayor Alonso: I believe so.
Mr. Kavanaugh: I don't believe we mentioned a specific figure, but we're
certainly interested in doing whatever we can to help.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm still listening.
Mr. Kavanaugh: Are you...
Commissioner Plummer: Give me an idea from the zoning... When you change from
R-2 to C-1, is that quadrupling the value of the property? Would that be a
fair statement?
Mr. Olmedillo: That is what the assessment typically shows, from a single-
f
family or duplex to a commercial district.
Mr. Kavanaugh: In all honesty, Commissioner, we don't really anticipate any
Immediate increase because there really isn't particular immediate demand.
There... We think there might be demand in the reasonably near future and we'd
like to be ready for it, but we really don't honestly, in this market...
_ �1
{ Commissioner Plummer: We know there's a demand for day care.
fi
Mr. Kavanaugh: Well, I know that, too. I couldn't agree with you more. We
do... We'd like to be ready for demand when it comes and that's why we've
filed the application. But we really, honestly don't anticipate any
immediate increase in value.
' Vice Mayor Alonso: Well. Are you here in opposition?
304 January 23, 1992
Mr. McVay Christy: Yes. Uh, this is for PZ-6.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, let's hear from him. State your name.
Unidentified Speaker: No, PZ-6.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, PZ-6. OK. So do we hear a motion? Are you ready to
move?
Commissioner Dawkins: J. L. did not move?
Vice Mayor Alonso: No. I think this is very quiet. Maybe he's...
Commissioner Dawkins: No action.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No action. Well. Do we have a motion?
Mr. Kavanaugh: Could I ask... Commissioner Plummer did you... Were your
thoughts directed toward the bank that's located on the corner?
Commissioner Plummer: My thoughts would be directed towards the individual
who will enhance by the change of zoning.
Mr. Kavanaugh: The owners would certainly be willing to assist in a day care
contribution. Frankly, I'd have to talk to the remaining owners to find out
what their... the level of their ability is and what their willingness is, but
I can...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Maybe you want to make a phone call and come back.
Mr. Kavanaugh: I don't know that I can reach them right at this minute.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me tell you something. We're dealing with a damn
honorable man in this community. He's going to do the best he can and I'll
move it based on that. But let me tell you, Dan...
Mr. Kavanaugh: You can be assured that we will.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Do we have a second?
Commissioner Dawkins: I second.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Call the roll.
Commissioner Plummer: I want to tell you. OK?
Commissioner Dawkins: He's from my office.
Commissioner Plummer: ...... there is a tremendous need for day care.
305 January 23, 1992
Mr. Kavanaugh: I used to be on the board for some years of St. Albans Day
Care in the Grove and I agree with you fully and we certainly would like to do
it.
Commissioner Plummer: I'll move it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you. We have a motion and a second. Please call
the roll.
Ms. Hirai: PZ-3 is a first reading?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Ms. Hirai: It is a first reading ordinance? We need to read the ordinance.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Ms. Maer: Read the ordinance?
f Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes. Call the roll.
-I AN ORDINANCE ENTITLED -
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING THE ZONING ATLAS OF ORDINANCE
NO. 11000, AS AMENDED THE ZONING ORDINANCE OF THE CITY
OF MIAMI, FLORIDA, BY CHANGING THE ZONING
CLASSIFICATION FROM 4-2 TWO FAMILY RESIDENTIAL TO C-1
RESTRICTED COMMERCIAL FOR THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT
2727-29 SOUTHWEST 27TH AVENUE, MIAMI, FLORIDA, (MORE
PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED HEREIN), AND BY MAKING ALL THE
NECESSARY CHANGES ON PAGE NO. 42 OF SAID ZONING ATLAS;
CONTAINING A REPEALER PROVISION AND A SEVERABILITY
CLAUSE.
Was introduced by Commissioner Plummer and seconded by Commissioner
Dawkins and was passed on its first reading by title by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Commissioner Alonso
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
The City Attorney read the ordinance into the public record and
announced that copies were available to the members of the City Commission and
to the public.
Mr. Kavanaugh: Thank you.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
306 January 23, 1992
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
32. BRIEFLY DISCUSS REQUEST BY APPELLANT FOR CONTINUANCE OF PROPOSED
RESOLUTION APPEALING A HISTORIC DESIGNATION FOR AREA BOUNDED BY REAR LOT
LINES BETWEEN N.E. 72 STREET AND N.E. 72 TERRACE ON THE NORTH, BISCAYNE
BAY AND N.E. 7 COURT ON THE EAST, N.E. 69 STREET EAST OF N.E. 7 COURT
(EXTENDED), AND REAR LOT LINES BETWEEN N.E. 67 AND 68 STREETS WEST OF
N.E. 7 COURT ON THE SOUTH, AND REAR LOT LINES OF PROPERTIES FRONTING ON
BISCAYNE BOULEVARD ON THE WEST. (Appellant: Estate of Mary Elizabeth
Whitney Tippett and Cloyce Tippett) (Continued to second meeting in
February -- See label 22)
Vice Mayor Alonso: PZ-5.
Mr. Miguel A. Seco: Madam Vice Mayor, the... I'm sorry.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Seco: The Bayside Residence Association would like to request a
continuance for Item PZ-6 so we may have consideration by the full Commission.
Vice Mayor Alonso:
Ms. Lucia Dougherty:
PZ-6.
There's no objection.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No objection.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, you bet.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Move it. Do we have a second? PZ-6.
Commissioner Plunmer: Second, Second.
Mr. Sergio Rodriguez: Continue to February 18, right?
February 18.
Mr. VcVay Christy: 13.
Mr. Rodriguez: 18.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: What year?
Mr. Christy: This year.
Commissioner Plummer: This year?
Mr. Christy: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh.
307
To continue to
January 23, 1992
■
Mr. Rodriguez: 18th, the Commission is...
Ms. Lucia Dougherty: Madam Vice Mayor I'd just like to make one request again
and this is the Jennings request that I would like to renew. On behalf of my
client, they have asked me to ask you in this quasi-judicial proceeding, which
1t is, if any of you have had any ex parte communications with the opposition
and if so, I'd like the opportunity to also meet with you.
Commissioner Plummer: Go get your pass from the teacher.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Call the roll.
Mr. McVay Christy: May I address the Commission?
Ms. Hirai: Excuse me...
Mr. Christy: Does not any individual have the right to request an interview
with you, just as we did? Does she not also have the right in the last two
months to say, "I would like to talk with you. Can I make an appointment?"
That's what we did with the people that we talked to. It seems to me no one
has denied her that right. She simply hasn't exercised that right.
Commissioner Plummer: That's not the basis of the law, sir.
Ms. Dougherty: I am not permitted under this law, this new case law, to
request that without the opposing side. I cannot ask for an ex parte
communication with you in connection with this.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you can't meet with me because they have not met
with me.
Ms. Dougherty: Is there anybody...
Mr. Seco: We are perfectly willing, if you'd like to take the time, we will
meet with each Commissioner with your presence according to mutual schedule.
Ms. Dougherty: I would just like to identify those Commissioners who have had
ex parte communications and I'll meet with you.
Commissioner Plummer: I will identify that I have not.
Ms. Dougherty: OK.
Commissioner Dawkins: I have not.
Ms. Dougherty: OK.
Vice Mayor Alonso: I have not.
Ms. Dougherty: Thank you.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh boy.
308 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Cali the roll.
Ms. Hirai: Need to call the roll.
Commissioner Plummer: More rules and regulations.
THEREBY A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER DAWKINS TO CONTINUE ITEM PZ -6
TO FEBRUARY 18, 1992. UPON BEING SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER PLUMMER, THE
MOTION WAS PASSED BY THE FOLLOWING VOTE:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Commissioner Alonso
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
33. DISCUSS AND CONTINUE PROPOSED RESOLUTION OFFICIALLY VACATING AND CLOSING
PORTION OF N.E. 51 STREET LYING EAST OF EAST RIGHT-OF-WAY (ROW) LINE OF
N.E. MIAMI PLACE AND WEST OF WEST ROW LINE OF N.E. 2 AVENUE, AS WELL AS
THAT PORTION OF N.E. 1 COURT LYING NORTH OF NORTH ROW LINE OF N.E. 50
TERRACE AND SOUTH OF SOUTH ROW LINE OF N.E. 51 STREET, AS CONDITION OF
APPROVAL OF TENTATIVE PLAT #1402 DOUGLAS GARDENS SOUTH. (Owner /
Applicant: Miami Jewish Home & Hospital for the Aged, Inc.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vice Mayor Alonso: PZ-5.
Mr. Jim Kay: PZ-5 is a public hearing for the vacation and closure of N.E.
51st Street between Miami Place, N.E. and N.E. 2nd Avenue and also a portion
of N.E. 1st Court between N.E. 50th Terrace and N.E. 51st Street, all in
conjunction with the plat of Douglas Gardens South. The applicant is the
Miami Jewish Home & Hospital for the Aged, Inc.
Commissioner Plummer: Approximately how many square feet would they be
acquiring?
Mr. Kay: It was approximately...
Ms. Adrienne Friesner: Thirty-nine thousand...
Mr. Kay: Thirty-nine thousand two hundred and four square feet.
Commissioner Plummer: And what is the value of a square foot up there?
Mr. Kay: It's somewhere in the neighborhood of about five dollars.
Commissioner Plummer: About five dollars.
309 January 23, 1992
Mr. Kay: I would like to remind you, Commissioner, they have already paid a
fee for the... at the hearing boards of twenty-nine thousand four hundred and
three dollars for the closure.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, that they have to do anyhow, whether they win or
lose. Is that correct?
Mr. Kay: That's correct. Seventy-five cents a square foot by the code, or
the ordinance.
Commissioner Plummer: So you're saying is that the approximate value of this
property is roughly two hundred thousand dollars.
Mr. Kay: Approximately, yes, sir.
Ms. Friesner: If I could just say... My name is Adrienne Friesner...
Commissioner Plummer: Have you been sworn in?
Ms. Friesner: No, I haven't.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No, they have not.
Commissioner Plummer: Are you a registered lobbyist?
Ms. Friesner: Yes, I am.
Commissioner Plummer: With the City of Miami?
Ms. Friesner: Pardon? Yes
Commissioner Plummer: And you have a two year waiver?
Ms. Friesner: Yes. Well no, no. I left the City over two years ago, so my
two years are up.
Commissioner Plummer: And you're ready to surrender a check for two hundred
thousand dollars?
Ms. Friesner: Well, no, not yet.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Not so easily, but...
Commissioner Plummer: I was trying to get all those yes answers and I was
going to sneak one in at the end.
Ms. Friesner: I thought so. But I'm ready to be sworn in and then give my...
yes, I will tell the truth.
Vice Mayor Alonso: That's good enough for us.
AT THIS POINT THE CITY CLERK ADMINISTERED REQUIRED OATH UNDER ORDINANCE NO.
10511 TO THOSE PERSONS GIVING TESTIMONY ON ZONING ISSUES.
310 January 23, 1992
Ms. Friesner: My name is Adrienne Friesner with law offices at 1221 Brickell
Avenue. I'm here on behalf of the Miami Jewish Home & Hospital for the Aged
which I just would like to tell you is a nonprofit organization that does a
lot for this community in caring for the elderly and that they have a large
campus right now which is located in the City of Miami and they are seeking...
they have hospitals on this campus. They also have a nursing home. They have
ACLF (Adult Congregate Living Facility) and they are seeking the street
closure in order to accommodate the campus and bring it more together and so,
therefore, we are requesting the street closure. We went before the Plat and
Street Committee because they have a tentative plat which is pending. We
received their approval, subject to certain conditions which they're complying
with. We then went before the Zoning Board and we received their approval
unanimously, nine zero vote. There was a condition placed on the owner which
we have complied with and we are here before you today requesting the street
closure...
Commissioner Plummer: Before you surrender your check, I would like to
know... the Zoning Board, it was subject, their approval was subject to
conditions. What were those conditions?
Ms. Friesner: The condition...
Mr. Kay: The conditions were that they had to provide an indemnification... a
covenant with indemnification agreement in it.
Ms. Maer: Right. It was an indemnification and hold harmless agreement.
Mr. Kay: So that there's no...
Commissioner Plummer: Have they provided such?
Ms. Maer: Yes, they have. I've reviewed it and it's acceptable.
Commissioner Plummer: At the Plat and Street Committee it was subject to
approval. What were those... I'm sorry. Subject to comments. What were
those comments?
Mr. Kay: There were a number of comments. The letters in the package... we
were mainly concerned about the provision for emergency access, easements
since this is a home for the aged. There were some other requirements that
really refer to the corrections by the surveyor, all plans should be sealed,
some structures demolished, removal of fence encroachments and bearings based
on an assumed meridian and so on. Those have all been complied with.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. Now we sit and listen.
Ms. Friesner: Well, pursuant to the City Code, chapter 54, there's certain
items that are listed in there to determine whether or not this is within the
public's interest and whether it will be to their benefit to close the street.
It's our position that it is within the City's interest and if I could just go
through those with you. The first item listed is, is it in the public
interest or would the general public benefit from the vacation of the rights -
of -way? Anyway, right now the Miami Jewish Home & Hospital for the Aged has
311 January 23, 1992
AMAL
j -
had a problem with a lot of the visitors that are going to visit them that
right now, they have some parking...
Commissioner Plummer: She's not listening.
j Ms. Friesner: OK. The issue... it's a nonprofit organization and in the =
past, money has never been asked from a nonprofit organization.
Commissioner Plummer: Ho, ho, don't bet your...
Commissioner Dawkins: Hey, you know, we only got...
Commissioner Plummer: We're not asking now. You have to volunteer.
Commissioner Dawkins: We got twenty-two minutes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Ms. Friesner: All right, well, I don't have the authority to...
Commissioner Dawkins: All right, table it and let it come back.
Ms. Friesner: ... offer any money. If I could just reiterate that the
application fee in this case was thirty thousand. I understand that
anybody...
Commissioner Plummer: And we want you to know how much we appreciate that.
Ms. Friesner: OK. And if I could just add one other item to this. One of
the conditions pursuant to the Plat and Street Committee was that the street
that is located right here...
Vice Mayor Alonso: You have to come to the mike.
Ms. Friesner: On N.E. Miami Place...
Commissioner Dawkins: Um-hmn.
Ms. Friesner: ... which is located right here" the City did request that if
they were going to close these streets, that the Miami Jewish Home dedicate
twenty-five feet running the length here.
Mr. Kay: They had to do that anyway...
Ms. Friesner: So,...
Mr. Kay: ... because they had to route traffic.
Ms. Friesner: ... they have agreed to do that and in the past...
Commissioner Plummer: They have no choice? You have no choice.
Commissioner Dawkins: That's right.
312 January 23, 1992
Ms. Friesner: Well that's pursuant to the plat. So I just wanted you to know
that they have given something back to the City.
Commissioner Dawkins: You know, I...
Commissioner Plummer: We'll give you a "handful of howdy and a mouthful of
much obliged."
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. So what's the pleasure of this Commission? Are you
ready to make a motion or we...
Commissioner Dawkins: You know, the only thing, Madam Vice Mayor, if the
Jewish Nome puts anything else on that block, it will fall through the ground.
And, you know, now they want to inconvenience the residents who may want to go
west through 51st Street, they'd have to go all the way to 54th Street and
like you said, they just want you to give it to them.
Ms. Friesner: OK. If I could...
Commissioner Plummer: Maybe we need to go up and look at it.
Commissioner Dawkins: OK. Yes. OK. Defer it till we go look at it and I'll
go in and see them, let them explain to me why it's necessary.
Commissioner Plummer: No, you have a problem. You have to clear their
security to even get in the grounds.
Commissioner Dawkins: Well, I do that. I live over there.
Ms. Friesner: This area is not... you do not have to go through the gate to
get to it.
Commissioner Dawkins: We will...
Ms. Friesner: But if you'd like to we can make arrangements...
Vice Mayor Alonso: So anyway, we are going to defer the item.
Ms. Friesner: ... that's no problem whatsoever. That's no problem
whatsoever.
Commissioner Plummer: Are you in any way during this deferment period, going
to do some landscaping up there for the neighborhood or something that would
be very... And excuse me. You know when we talk here and we listen, we don't
talk. We listen. It doesn't have to be dollars that you volunteer. It can
be amenities to a neighborhood. Let me tell you one that you can start with
is that ugly damn fence of the parking lot across the street.
Ms. Friesner: That would be the area that's included within here that they
would...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you know we would like to see something in
writing and we'll be glad to listen.
313 January 23, 1992
Ms. Friesner: OK. That would be wonderful.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. So you got the message.
Commissioner Plummer: So your first appearance... you're not losing yet.
Ms. Friesner: Thank you.
Commissioner Dawkins: And you're much too pretty not to come often.
Ms. Friesner: Thank you very much.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: We promise not to take out on you that Traurig stole
you away from the City.
Vice Mayor Alonso: PZ-7.
Mr. Rodriguez: So this is a...
Commissioner Dawkins: Motion to defer. I mean to continue.
Mr. Rodriguez: Continue to February 18.
Commissioner Plummer: For further information.
Vice Mayor Alonso: To continue to February 18th. OK. Do we have a second?
Commissioner Dawkins: Call the roll.
THEREBY A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER DAWKINS TO CONTINUE ITEM
PZ-5 TO FEBRUARY 18, 1992. UPON BEING SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
PLUMMER, THE MOTION WAS PASSED BY THE FOLLOWING VOTE:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Commissioner Alonso
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
314 January 23, 1992
34. GRANT APPEAL -- REVERSE ZONING BOARD'S DENIAL OF A VARIANCE TO ALLOW A
SHORTER REAR SETBACK AND BATHROOM ADDITION TO EXISTING STORAGE ROOM OF A
SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE AT 330 N.W. 63 COURT, WITH PROVISO (Appellant:
Dionisio & Caridad Acosta).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vice Mayor Alonso: PZ-7.
Mr. Guillermo Olmedillo: PZ-7. Madam Vice Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Olmedillo: It's an appeal by the applicant that was a Zoning Board
decision to deny a variance on a piece of property which is located at 330
N.W. 63rd Court. Typically, we hear from the appellant first and then we'll
give you the facts after the appellant has spoken.
Commissioner Plummer: While we're waiting for that, Mr. ...
Vice Mayor Alonso: He has to be sworn in, Madam Clerk.
Ms. Hirai: I am sorry, Commissioner.
Vice Mayor Alonso: He has to be sworn.
AT THIS POINT THE CITY CLERK ADMINISTERED REQUIRED OATH UNDER ORDINANCE NO.
10511 TO THOSE PERSONS GIVING TESTIMONY ON ZONING ISSUES.
Commissioner Plummer: Madam Vice Mayor, may I inquire? Mr. City Manager, of
your illustrious Code Enforcement Board, can you tell me is there any action
pending before 3241 Florida Avenue?
Mr. Rodriguez: If you give me a second, I will look for that information.
Commissioner Plummer: You look it up. Let him go ahead and continue and when
he's finished, you can tell me. Mr. Ferro, for the record, sir, have you or
any of your parties been to my office to speak to me about this issue?
Mr. Simon Ferro: No, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you. Let me do it...
Commissioner Dawkins: When you saw me in Tallahassee, did you discuss it with
me?
Mr. Ferro: No, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Let's do it for the whole... Let's do it and clear it.
Have you or any of your parties spoke to any of this Commission prior to this
hearing?
315 January 23, 1992
-f
Mr. Ferro: No, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you.
I Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. City Attorney, where the hell are you? Do you give
him a pass to proceed?
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Continue please.
Mr. Ferro: Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. For the record, my name is Simon
Ferro with offices at 6161 Blue Lagoon Drive. I represent Mr. and Mrs.
Acosta. Unfortunately, this is one of those situations where some small
amount of construction was done without following all the proper procedures
and it's unfortunate because what was done is very compatible with what is
there now and probably would have been approved before the fact. But what we
are here today before you on is a variance to permit a small room to be within
a five foot setback line where ten feet are required, the rear setback. I
passed out copies of pictures depicting the front of the house and the second
page of the picture will show a small room which is the structure that existed
when Mr. and Mrs. Acosta purchased the property in 1987. If you look at the
first page of the survey that I have given you, when Mr. and Mrs. Acosta
purchased the property in 1987, a small CBS (concrete block structure) utility
room...
Commissioner De Yurre: Excuse me a second. Is there any opposition to this?
Hello.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No.
Commissioner De Yurre: None.
Commissioner Plummer: My question is, is there any provisions... this is a
variance, right?
Mr. Olmedillo: That is correct, sir.
j Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
i
Commissioner Plummer: So we could apply any conditions we wish?
-1
Mr. Olmedillo: Any conditions that you deem necessary.
-j Commissioner Plummer: OK. The conditions that I would want to apply for
approval would be that at no time, could this second addition or the rear
structure, be used for habitation.
Mr. Olmedillo: It's part of the law right now. It's an R-1 district. It's a
single-family district. There is no legal way...
Mr. Rodriguez: They want a covenant, a condition.
316
January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: You're not listening to me. I want to make sure that
-� there's not a second electric meter that appears. That this cannot be used at
i any time for human habitation.
Vice Mayor Alonso: You have no objections?
Mr. Ferro: Commissioner, that is no problem. To lay your mind to rest, the
attached building that was added to the pre-existing building, there is no
interior connection between those two buildings. So you're not looking at
a...
Commissioner Plummer: But on weekends, they spring up.
Mr. Ferro: Well, you're right, but we... there is absolutely no problem
with...
Commissioner Dawkins: Agree to his, whatever it is, so we can get out of
here, please, sir.
Mr. Ferro: Sure, we agree to the condition without a problem.
Commissioner Dawkins: Thank you.
Commissioner De Yurre: I second. I second the motion.
Commissioner Dawkins: He seconds the motion.
Commissioner Plummer: I thought I was making an amendment.
Commissioner Dawkins: We accept your motion.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. Accepted. Second by Commissioner De Yurre. Call the
roll.
317 January 23, 1992
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-59
A RESOLUTION REVERSING THE DECISION OF THE ZONING
BOARD AND GRANTING THE VARIANCE FROM SECTION 1903.1 OF
ORDINANCE NO. 11000, AS AMENDED, THE ZONING ORDINANCE
OF THE CITY OF MIAMI, FLORIDA, TO ALLOW A 5' REAR
SETBACK (10' MINIMUM REQUIRED) AS PER PLANS ON FILE,
FOR THE EXISTING 15.7' X 11.5' LAUNDRY AND BATHROOM
ADDITION TO THE EXISTING 15.1' X 11.5' STORAGE ROOM AT
THE REAR OF THE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE FOR THE
PROPERTY LOCATED AT 330 NORTHWEST 63 COURT, MIAMI,
FLORIDA (MORE PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED HEREIN), SUBJECT
TO THE CONDITION THAT SAID ADDITION SHALL NEVER BE
USED AS A SEPARATE LIVING UNIT, ZONED R-1 SINGLE
FAMILY RESIDENTIAL.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner De Yurre, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Mayor Xavier L. Suarez
35. COMMISSIONER PLUMMER QUALIFIES THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD AS
INEFFECTIVE, AND MENTIONS VIOLATIONS AT 3241 FLORIDA AVENUE -- DIRECTS
ADMINISTRATION TO ENFORCE THE LAW.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Rodriguez: Commissioner Plummer, in relation to your question, there have
been fines running on this property that you mentioned since September 24 of
last year at a rate of one hundred and fifty per day at a total as of this
point of eighteen thousand dollars. I have been advised today by the Law
Department that we van start foreclosure on the property. There is a cost
associated with that in each case and that's what this...
Commissioner Plummer: Have you gone to court on this issue?
Mr. Rodriguez: No.
318 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Why not? I beg all of you, if you ever saw an eyesore,
go to 3241 Florida Avenue. It is absolutely a downright disgrace. Now, I
come back to the fact of code enforcement. This has been running on since
September of last year. Nothing has been done about it except imposing a fine
which obviously they could not care less. Every day more junk is added to
that piece of property and it is becoming worse and worse and worse! And we
can't do a damn thing about it. There is something wrongl Now we're spending
a million dollars a year to budget a code enforcement. And if they can't do
anything more than collect twenty-five million dollars in fines and not stop
the violations, I think we're wasting our money for code enforcement. I mean,
it is without a doubt the most glaring example of outright defiance of this
City that I have ever seen. And I want to tell you something. If you can't
do anything about it, then we need to get rid of code enforcement and get
something that can go in there and say... It's a public health problem right
now.
Mr. Rodriguez: OK. Following your inquiry on this... But first let me say
that about two thousand cases per year come into compliance. So the code
enforcement effort I believe is very valid.
Commissioner Plummer: Big dealt You got twenty-eight million dollars in
liens but no compliance.
Mr. Rodriguez: Well. The second point is in relation to this, I will check
with the Law Department to see what it will cost us to initiate court cases in
each one of them and to see whether it is worth our effort. In the majority
of the cases, I believe eighty-five percent of the cases, we get compliance
from the property owners.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir,...
Mr. Rodriguez: In this particular case, we're going...
Commissioner De Yurre: What item are we on?
Mr. Rodriguez: Beg your pardon?
Commissioner De Yurre: What item?
Commissioner Plummer: I asked this as a side item.
Mr. Rodriguez: A pocket item.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: I would ask of the Administration to have a City
photographer go over there and supply to each one of these Commissioners
photographs of what is existing there today, please.
Mr. Rodriguez: OK.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. You needed a clarification.
319 January 23, 1992
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Mr. Ferro: I have a clarification. I was not aware of the enforcement action
or of any lien that had been placed on the property. Obviously if there is
something... a lien of that amount...
Commissioner Dawkins: No, this has nothing to do with you. —
Mr. Ferro: With this property?
Commissioner De Yurre: Be gone.
Commissioner Dawkins: No, this is another property. You're gone. All right.
Mr. Ferro: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no, no.
Vice Mayor Alonso: This has nothing to do with you.
Mr. Ferro: I'm sorry.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. To your knowledge, this is not a code
enforcement.
Commissioner De Yurre: Unless you want to volunteer some money.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. PZ...
Commissioner Plummer: Wait a minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa. This was a code
enforcement and I'm assuming liens were imposed.
Mr. Rodriguez: No. What happened in this case the code enforcement heard the
case and they asked for a continuance so they can resolve the matter
administratively through a hearing. Today in agreeing to this, that you are
done, there is no case now to go before the Code Enforcement Board. The case
will be dismissed.
Vice Mayor Alonso: So, no problem.
Mr. Ferro: OK. And there is no lien against this property.
Mr. Rodriguez: No.
Vice Mayor Alonso: No.
Mr. Ferro: OK. Thank you very much.
320 January 23, 1992
---------------------------------------------------------- -------------------
36. (A) DENY APPEAL BY COCONUT GROVE CIVIC CLUB -- AFFIRM ZONING BOARD'S
GRANTING OF SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO ALLOW CONSTRUCTION OF 8
RESIDENTIAL UNITS AT 2921 DAY AVENUE AND 3180-3186 MARY STREET.
(B) DISCUSSION BY CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE CONCERNING EX PARTE
COMMUNICATIONS AND THE RECENT JENNINGS DECISION.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK. PZ-8.
Commissioner Dawkins: What's the recommendation of the administration?
Mr. Guillermo Olmedillo: PZ-8 is an approval...
Commissioner Dawkins: I move it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Do we have a second?
Commissioner De Yurre: Second.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Call the roll, please.
Miriam Maer, Esq.: Madam Vice Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh!
Ms. Maer: If I may, on PZ-8, if you would continue the procedure, I believe
you've just established, about polling the Commission and disclosing whether
there have been any ex parte communications for the record.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: Who are the applicants?
Commissioner De Yurre: We are approving this. Why would we want to do that?
Vice Mayor Alonso: In my case, this gentleman came to see me, and I called
the City Attorney and inquired about this procedure, and I was told of the
rule in effect, and I just waved the gentleman good-bye, and we did not
exchange any information about this property. What about the rest of the
Commission?
Commissioner Plummer: We're speaking of PZ-8?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Olmedillo: PZ-8. And just to clarify the record...
Commissioner Plummer: Are the applicants here? Are their representatives
here?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, they are here.
321 January 23, 1992
Mr. Olmedillo: Let me explain a little bit because this is an appeal for the
special exception which was granted. The appellant is the Coconut Grove Civic
Club. The original applicant, the owner of the property is Richard Finvarb,
or is represented by Richard Finvarb. So that the record is clear, our
recommendation is for you to approve the special exception which was issued,
that is to dismiss the appeal.
Commissioner Plummer: But the Civic Club is saying, don't grant the appeal.
Ms. Maer: That's right, they are appealing it.
Mr. Olmedillo: That is correct.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, that's why I'd like to hear both sides of the
story.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Exactly. And will you, anyone that will testify will be
sworn in, Madam Clerk...
Commissioner Dawkins: OK, this is the last item for this night.
Commissioner Plummer: Is this the property across the street from the Hare
Krishna?
Mr. James McMaster: Oh, no.
Commissioner Plummer: Which property is this?
Mr. McMaster: This is farther down. Day Avenue. It's closer to 27th Avenue.
Commissioner Plummer: Day and Mary. OK. Because they are building a great
deal right behind this, right? To the north of this?
Mr. McMaster: That's another block down on Virginia and Orange.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mr. McMaster: Jim McMaster, 2940 SW 30 Court, Coconut Grove.
Commissioner Plummer: Jim, excuse me, I'm sorry. Are the other parties
present?
Mr. McMaster: Yes, they are.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, they are.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, OK. Well, you better come and defend yourself.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Come to the other side. Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: ... and get sworn in.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
322 January 23, 1992
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Ms. Maer: Madam Vice Mayor, if I may while that's being done, perhaps I could
impose on the Commission to suggest a procedure by which we can handle this
Jennings situation for this and any other cases that may come up where there
may have been ex parte communication, because this case had just recently come
down from the appellate court. And I would suggest the following: that in
fact, you continue with the polling of each Commissioner. If in fact, there
have been any ex parte communications, at that point, that Commissioner should
place upon the record the substance of the communication together with any
documents, photographs...
Commissioner De Yurre: Whoal Whoal No. No. Time out. Time out. Listen,
I can see if somebody requests to find out, but us to have to volunteer
time... I don't remember who comes to see me. I don't remember if people came
to see me on this issue or another issue, so I don't think that, that is not
going to be that good for us to get involved in.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well, we will answer to the best of our recollection if we
met with them or not, and that's the extent... go.
Commissioner Plummer: If you know, I suggest...
Commissioner De Yurre: But do we have to, or you're suggesting this?
Ms. Maer: I am recommending this to you after reading the cases quite
thoroughly, and after also knowing what the County Attorney Office's position
has been on this. Now, I would suggest also that if you don't recall, that's
absolutely a legitimate answer.
Commissioner Plummer: But if you do recall, I see no reason why you can't put
it on the record. And for the record, neither of these parties have
approached me.
Ms. Maer: And the next step would be, after the disclosure, the next step
would be for any ex parte communications that may have occurred, the substance
of which are put on the record, the other side - because I don't know which
side may have made the communication, the other side, is given an opportunity
to cross- examine, and also are inquired of as to whether they have had
sufficient time to digest the substance of this. And if not, the item would
be continued.
Commissioner Plummer: Incredible.
Commissioner De Yurre: Eight forty-four.
Vice Mayor Alonso: OK, let's have them sworn in, please. All of the parties
that will testify.
AT THIS POINT THE CITY CLERK ADMINISTERED REQUIRED OATH UNDER ORDINANCE NO.
10511 TO THOSE PERSONS GIVING TESTIMONY ON ZONING ISSUES.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, please.
Mr. McMaster: My name is Jim McMaster, I live at 2940 SW 30th Court in
Coconut Grove, and I am here representing the board of the Coconut Grove Civic
323 January 23, 1992
Club. I'd like to set the record straight a little bit. The Civic Club is
noted for being a little strident on variances and other issues. Since the
ordinance was changed to allow clusters, by special exception in Coconut
Grove, there have been eleven of these containing approximately, seventy-five
units. The Civic Club has not opposed one of those. We have not appealed any
of those. We have actually supported some of those. And I've run into a lot
of people who complain bitterly about how the Grove is changing and how these
new units are too dense or whatever. And I have to explain to them for the
Civic Club, that we are going to get something in Coconut Grove, and if we
don't get these duplexes, we are going to get apartments or something else.
So this is the best we can do. Now, we have appealed this cluster simply
because it doesn't contain a ten foot separation between the units. The
Ordinance 9500 required a ten foot separation between units. And if the
applicant were going to build these units on platted lots, he would have to
have a five foot separation from each lot line and a total of ten foot between
units. These would be the only special exception cluster granted by the City
that did not have a minimum of ten feet between the units. I would like to
clarify and set the record straight. Tucker Gibbs and I were downtown at the
City office building on N.W. 2nd Street on October 4th, and we did run into
Mr. Blitstein, the architect, and they were signing off a minor modification
on this. At that point, we explained to them, we would not appeal this to the
Commission, simply to raise the issue of the ten foot separation, and we have
not appealed it simply on that issue. We reviewed the plans later and opposed
it at the Zoning Board, based on the fact that this development with only a
five foot, one inch separation between the buildings does not conform to the
surrounding neighborhood. I'd like to hand something out to you.
Commissioner Dawkins: I want to put in the record, these plans were in my
office and I did see them.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: Now long has the owner of this property owned this
property?
Mr. Richard Finvarb: I closed on it yesterday. My name is Richard Finvarb.
We had a contract to purchase, I was acting as the attorney... what do you
call it? I had power of attorney from the owner to proceed with this request,
and we bought the property yesterday, and I have since closed.
Commissioner Plummer: Do you intend to live there, sir?
Mr. Finvarb: No. This is a project, a condominium project. It's eight units
that are going to be developed.
324 January 23, 1992
Mr. McMasters: I'll try and make this brief. I think the top sheet here, Mr.
Sanchez either has or will be before you, and right down the street about a
block down he had a cluster and the neighbors objected to a lot of things in
the cluster. And as you can see, there are seven items, here which Mr.
Sanchez was able to modify or change in his cluster including moving units,
etc. etc. Excuse me, the next two sheets, the area in yellow is where the
unit would have to be removed to create a 10-foot separation between the
units. The area in red is where the units could be added on to to allow for
the separation. What's important to note here is that all of these units are
identical. All the Civic Club is simply asking the applicant to do, is have _
two different kinds of units: six of the units can be identical and the other
two can be slight narrower and longer. It's not impossible to do. It would
have been very easy to do. We have met with Mr. Finvarb, Mr. Bleinstein twice
since the zoning board hearing and the reason why this is taking so long and
we're appearing before you in January is that the wrong address was put down
on the Zoning Board Agenda and the notices that were sent out. And the Law —
Department had to review that which is why it's been delayed a little bit.
Another issue in the last two sheets, one sheet is the South Florida Building
Code and the last sheet shows the den area. When you don't have a minimum of
10-foot separation between structures, you then get into a fire rating of
walls and not being allowed to have windows or windows that open. One of the
problems with the Special Exception Clusters, is that the building official
doesn't review them. Now, that's understandable. You don't want someone to
come for the Special Exception Cluster to the Zoning Board and have to spend a -
great deal of money and then find out that every thing has to be changed or it
doesn't go through. But one of the problems is that the building official
does not get to review them and I don't think in this case that the corner =
unit can be allowed because the den has to have a window on it as shown on
those sheets and it can't have one according to the South Florida Building
Code. I'd like to finish up by saying that there was a cluster next door to
me and it was approved by the Zoning Board. You never saw it because the
neighbors and I agreed to it. The developer agreed to some fairly major
changes. As I pointed out, Mr. Sanchez agreed to some major changes. I
apologize to Mr. Bleinstein and Mr. Finvarb that this has gone this far but
we're simply asking, you know, give us two different kinds of units and ten
feet. Thank you.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Mr. Finvarb: Simply asking two different types of units and ten -feet is going
to set us back, maybe three, four months in time and I can't see what benefit
the project would have from this. If I may...
Commissioner Plummer: You know what the alternative is, don't you?
Mr. Finvarb: Of course. Okay.
Commissioner Plummer: To be denied.
Mr. Finvarb: Yes, I do. If this was approved seven to one by the zoning...
Commissioner Plummer: That makes no difference, sir. We have the right to
deny.
325 January 23, 1992
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171
Mr. Finvarb: I know you do. I know you have the right to deny.
Commissioner Plummer: Okay. Just as long as you know what the alternative
is, if you take an attitude that you're not going to do it.
Mr. Finvarb: Of course. I know what you're... I know you can object. I know
you can, but I want to tell you the merits of the project and why I feel that
their request is unreasonable. If I may...
Commissioner Plummer: Sure.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Please continue.
Mr. Finvarb: Thank you. Okay, when we designed this project our architect,
Mr. Peter Bleinstein who lives in Coconut Grove, and our landscape designer
met numerous times with the building officials of the City of Miami. We went
step-by-step and got their approvals in designing the project. We met with
the Planning, Zoning and the Building Departments and we conformed with all
the rules and regulations of the City of Miami Zoning and with the South
Florida Building Code. In meeting with the Planning Department, the planning
official, Maggy Cordovitz recommended that we install a block wall around the
project because the Civic Club likes the block walls. We have a hedge which
is landscaped heavily around the project but they wanted the block wall...
it's going to cost about $20,000 and we conceded it. So, this is one
concession that was made to the Civic Club. Okay. When one designs a
project, it takes countless and countless of hours to get to a solution that
works and will be marketable. We have to have a relationship between a good
floor plan, the relationship between each building and open space. We have
designed this project trying to maintain the existing landscaping. We have on
site three poincianas and about two oaks trees plus numerous palm trees and
when this project was designed we worked around the trees to save them.
Besides, not only are we saving the specimen trees, but we're going to add
heavily in landscaping to the project. We also try to have yard for each
unit, if I may show you. There's four groups of buildings - these ones that
are in brown and we're trying to create a yard for each unit. These two units
share this yard. This unit has this yard. This unit has this yard. This one
has this yard. This one has this yard and these two share this yard. We
could comply with Mr. McMaster's request by shifting these units over here,
killing these two poinciana trees and eliminating the yard fnr this unit. And
I can't see what the purpose would be in doing so. The units work well. The
layout is very functional and practical and each unit has heavy landscaping
throughout and we have conformed with all the regulations and so forth so I
cannot see what the purpose of their request is. Having ten feet when the
Zoning Department and their Building Code accepts five feet. So, just to
redesign the project with no benefit at all, I can't understand.
Commissioner De Yurre: For the record, I'd like to say that I have met this
gentleman. He came to see me, it's about a month ago or so and I really,
again you know, I don't see the reason why this project needs to be changed.
I think that a tot of care has been put into it and I think it would be an
added plus for the area. You know, 5-foot within the compound... I don't see
the real purpose of it especially at the expense of losing green areas and
some trees. So, as far as my vote is concerned, I'm in favor of approving
this as it is.
326 January 23, 1992
0 4P
Mr. McMaster: What I saw as far as the landscape plan there would no... the
red hashed area I've shown you there would be no trees removed. Maybe, Mr.
Finvarb could show us the tree survey and show what trees would be removed, if
they had to.
Mr. Finvarb: What trees will be removed?
Mr. McMaster: Well, you were just saying that you would have to remove trees
if you had two different kinds of units.
Mr. Finvarb: The specimen trees are being conserved and one tree is going to
be relocated at a cost of about $2,000.00. So we're trying to maintain the
ambiance and the atmosphere of Coconut Grove. If you want to see a tree
survey, I have one.
Commissioner De Yurre: Ready for a motion.
Mr. McMaster: I'm saying I've reviewed the plans and there wouldn't be...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Well I think we should...
Mr. McMaster: ... any trees removed.
Mr. Finvarb: Pardon?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Are you willing to... he' ready to make a motion. Any one
else would like to add anything else before we...
Mr. McMaster: Yes. Joyce Nelson would like to say something else...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. McMaster:... so in rebuttal I'd like to reemphasize that there was one
next door to me. The Civic Club has been very helpful on these clusters.
We've gotten flak from our own members about why aren't we doing something
about these clusters. There have been eleven of them come down the pike, we
haven't opposed any of them and we are simply this gentleman to make a change
in two units. It would not require any trees being cut down. He's
transplanting twelve trees, as is, and I respectfully request you to, you
know...
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Mr. McMaster: ... if planning would agree to his changes, we don't want to
hold him up. If he simply came to planning with a 10-foot separation between
units the Civic Club wouldn't have to review it as long as it was okayed by
Planning.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you very much.
Mr. McMaster: This is Joyce.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Who is next? Yes. State your name for the record.
327 January 23, 1992
er M
Ms. Joyce Nelson: My name is Joyce Nelson and I own property on the same
street as this project. I've lived there since 1974. The objection that I
have is, as a property owner there and also as a Civic Club Board member, is
that they are not complying with the zoning, which is a 10-foot separation.
There's a reason for having a 10-foot separation, that's for safety; and if
everyone else can comply with that, that's building similar units, I don't see
why they can't do it also.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: Did...
Vice Mayor Alonso: So I've met... Excuse me.
Commissioner Plummer: Go ahead.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Go ahead.
Commissioner Plummer: Have we heard yet from the Coconut New Grove Council?
Mr. McMaster: It's my understanding, well I know for a fact, this issue has
not been brought to them and it is has not been brought to the Central Grove
Neighbor Association either because they are still on the formative stage,
also.
Commissioner Plummer: Jim, my understanding, when I voted for the
establishment of Coconut Grove Council, that they were going to speak for all
the Grove.
Mr. McMaster: Well, I agree with you entirely. I have not been involved in
any meetings thus far with the Counsel, but they are getting, you know, the
mechanics straightened out first before they start dealing with issues, which
is the appropriate way to do it. They need to have everything working
properly before they deal with issues.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Okay, fine. We have a motion. Do we have a second?
Commissioner De Yurre: Move to approve.
Ms. Mary Weber: If I can answer Mr. Plummer a little bit further. The
Village Council will be set up very closely to address these situations and,
excuse me, we will be doing so probably within the next two months.
Commissioner Plummer: Good.
Ms. Weber: Let me make one comment on this situation. The Civic Club sees
this as a glitch and the Zoning Ordinance 11000. I don't think it was
anybody's fault. Unfortunately, the 10-foot separation between properties...
buildings on the same property was just left out. And we would like to see
that put back into this ordinance, as it was in 9500. So, I would like to
request that you instruct staff to look into doing just that.
328 January 23, 1992
Commissioner Plummer: Right now its 5 foot. Is that correct? It's what is
being proposed? Is that what... in other words...
Mr. Olmedillo: The distance separation was removed from 9500 when we
redrafted into 11000.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't need an editorial. In this request they are
proposing between the two buildings five feet.
Mr. Rodriguez: Five point one.
Mr. Olmedillo: From zoning low is acceptable. From the zoning is 5.1.
Mr. Rodriguez: Yes, five one.
Commissioner Plummer: Five foot one inch, right. And they're asking for a
10, you're asking or you did ask for a ten foot?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Mr. Rodriguez: They asking for a 10-foot.
Commissioner Plummer: And you're not concerned about it?
Mr. Rodriguez: No.
Commissioner Plummer: In other words, one building this far apart from the
other doesn't concern you.
Mr. Rodriguez: We would prefer to have more distance, but at the same time,
if the building were to be attached to each other like a row house, that would
be acceptable.
Commissioner Plummer: To you.
Mr. Rodriguez: Well, in our recommendation to you...
Commissioner Plummer: Not to me.
Mr. Rodriguez: ... you know, yeah you can do whatever you want, you know.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Okay. Do we have a second?
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me ask a question. Where is the entrance to
this...?
Mr. Rodriguez: At two, three.
Commissioner Plummer: ... on your map?
Mr. Finvarb: The entrance to the project is right here. It's next to two
royal poinciana trees that have a canopy of about forty feet.
Commissioner Plummer: Is there a single entrance and exit?
329 January 23, 1992
Mr. Rodriguez: No.
Mr. Finvarb: Yes, there's a single entrance and exit.
Commissioner Plummer: If I wanted to get a fire truck to the back...
Mr. Rodriguez: No, no that's not correct.
Commissioner Plummer: What?
Mr. Rodriguez: That's not correct.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. McMasters.
Mr. Rodriguez: There are three different entrances.
Commissioner Dawkins: Mr. McMasters.
Mr. Finvarb: Well, there's three entrances: there's one here, one here and
one here.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, then they could get to it.
Commissioner Dawkins: You said that eleven other clusters had been put out
there and you didn't complain... is that a fact? Is that... _
Mr. McMaster: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Dawkins: And now you got some flak because you didn't, is that a
fact?
Mr. McMaster: Yes.
Commissioner Dawkins: So now you're going to make an example out of this one
because you got flak on the other eleven.
Mr. McMasters: Oh no, sir. We are not making...
Commissioner Dawkins: I mean I'm asking.
Mr. McMasters: ... examples out of them at all.
Commissioner Dawkins: What are you doing then?
Mr. McMasters: We have met with them twice. Like I said before, the reason
why this has been held up several months is that the applicant put the wrong
- address down. We did not object to the other ones because as this project
does, it has the proper setbacks from the streets and the side yards.
Commissioner Dawkins: Well, no, no, no. She can't tell you what you just
said. I'm telling you what you said, okay. Now you said that you did not
protest against the other eleven and you had been asked by members of the
Coconut Grove Civic Club why, so now we're making an example out of this one.
330 January 23, 1992
Mr. McMaster: Oh no, sir. That has nothing to do with it. -
Commissioner Dawkins: Okay, that's all. Okay. You tell me why.
Mr. McMaster: What I'm saying is that a lot of people have complained about _
these clusters going from the Central Grove.
Commissioner Dawkins: Okay, good.
Mr. McMaster: But, I understand the fact that we are getting something in the
Central Grove and we better grab these while we can or else we're going to get
apartment houses, later. And these are certainly better than apartment
houses. What I'm saying is that all the other eleven clusters, whether they
may be too dense or too large or cut all the trees down, the Civic Club has
largely by my instigation, has not fought them and has not opposed them
because we're not very popular with this Commission many times anyway. And I
think we needed to wait to oppose something that meant... needed to be
opposed.
Commissioner Dawkins: Okay. I hear you now. I hear you now. I didn't hear
that before. Okay I hear you now.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Thank you. It's 9:02, 9:02. We have a motion. Do we
have a second? Do we have a second? Do we have a second, for the third...
Commissioner Plummer: I move that item b defer for further consideration.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Okay, so...
Mr. Rodriguez: Continue.
Commissioner Dawkins: Second, second.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... continue to February, yes?
Commissioner Dawkins: Second.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Second?
Commissioner Dawkins: Yes.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Okay. February 18th, okay?
Commissioner Dawkins: Yes, sir. Go ahead, sir.
s
Vice Mayor Alonso: It's going to be deferred, February 18.
? Mr. Finvarb: May I talk just for one minute?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes, please.
Mr. Finvarb: Because I don't know how to turn this on.
331 January 23, 1992
Commissioner De Yurre: Although, let me say something first, you know, guys,
this is a small project to make this man wait another month, interest
payments, carrying charges, a whole bunch of...
Mr. Finvarb: If I could...
Commissioner De Yurre: Hey, brother I'm talking. Okay?
Mr. Finvarb: I'm sorry. No problem.
Commissioner De Yurre: You know, I'm on your side.
i Mr. Finvarb: No, no.
Commissioner De Yurre: Okay. You know, I think that, you know, to delay this
another month... I don't see the purpose. What he's proposing is nothing
irrational...
Mr. Finvarb: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Commissioner Dawkins: Okay. You're motion will fail. Make your motion, I'll
second it.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Let him finish, otherwise you're going to lose your case.
Commissioner De Yurre: I move that we approve this as presented.
Commissioner Dawkins: I'll second it. It will die. Let's go.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Okay. Madam Clerk will you call the roll, please?
Commissioner Plummer: You realize what you are doing?
Commissioner Dawkins: Yes, I know. I know, he's finished.
Commissioner Plummer: If the motions dies then he's outlawed for at least a
year.
Commissioner Dawkins: I know, hey, alright, okay.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Go ahead.
Commissioner Plummer: Alright.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Please, please we are going...
Mr. McMaster: No, our appeal fails then.
Commissioner Plummer: ... going to come out worse off.
Mr. McMaster: Our appeal fails then.
332 January 23, 1992
�+ 'W
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner De Yurre, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-60
A RESOLUTION DENYING AN APPEAL FROM AND AFFIRMING THE
DECISION OF THE ZONING BOARD TO GRANT A SPECIAL
EXCEPTION FROM ORDINANCE NO. 11000, AS AMENDED, THE
ZONING ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF MIAMI, FLORIDA,
ARTICLE 4, ZONING DISTRICTS, SECTION 401, SCHEDULE OF
DISTRICT REGULATIONS, TO ALLOW THE CONSTRUCTION OF
EIGHT (8) RESIDENTIAL UNITS IN FOUR (4) STRUCTURES FOR
THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 2921 DAY AVENUE AND 3080-3086
MARY STREET, MIAMI, FLORIDA (MORE PARTICULARLY
DESCRIBED HEREIN); AS PER PLANS ON FILE, ZONED R-2 TWO
FAMILY RESIDENTIAL; SAID SPECIAL EXCEPTION HAVING A
TIME LIMITATION OF TWELVE MONTHS IN WHICH A BUILDING
PERMIT MUST BE OBTAINED.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Dawkins, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
NOES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
ABSENT: Mayor Xavier Suarez
Commissioner Dawkins: Oh, I thought you were going to vote against it.
37. APPROVE, IN PRINCIPLE, THE MIAMI RIVER MASTER PLAN, FINAL REPORT,
DATED JANUARY, 1992.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vice Mayor Alonso: Okay. Now, would you take PZ...
Commissioner Dawkins: Move 10, move 10. Move 10, so we can go home.
Mr. Huber Parsons: Thank you, Commissioner Dawkins. Non -controversial,
unanimously recommended.
Vice Mayor Alonso: ... yeah, PZ-9. Can we take PZ-9?
Commissioner De Yurre: But let's vote on this one.
Mr. Parsons: Vice Mayor. Can you do 10?
333 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Okay PZ-10 we have a motion and a second. Will you call
the roll on PZ-10.
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Dawkins, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-61
A RESOLUTION A RESOLUTION APPROVING, IN PRINCIPLE, THE
MIAMI RIVER MASTER PLAN DATED JANUARY, 1992' FURTHER
DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO BRING BACK ALL PROPOSED
CHANGES INCLUDED IN SAID PLAN FOR CITY COMMISSION
APPROVAL PRIOR TO IMPLEMENTATION.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner De Yurre, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Mayor Xavier Suarez
38. GRANT MAJOR USE SPECIAL PERMIT AT 3015 GRAND AVENUE FOR THE COMPLETED
COCOWALK PROJECT, AND SPECIFICALLY APPROVE 535 PARKING SPACES ON TWO
BELOW -GRADE AND TWO ABOVE -GRADE LEVELS (Owner / Appellant: Grand Oak
Limited Partnership).
Commissioner De Yurre: Move nine.
Commissioner Dawkins: Second.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Nine, second.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, I protest.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Oh, come on, yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Wait a minute. What is 9?
Mr. Rodriguez: Nine is Cocowalk.
334 January 23, 1992
Vice Mayor Alonso: Nine is Cocowalk. The Review Board no problem, no
opposition...
Mr. Rodriguez: Cocowalk is nine.
Commissioner Plummer: Nobody's in objection?
Vice Mayor Alonso: No.
Ms. Lucia Dougherty: Nobody's in objection.
Commissioner Plummer: Is there anybody in objection to nine? Than fine,
I move.
4
Vice Mayor Alonso: Okay. Call the roll. We have a motion and a second.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, yes. Dawkins wait a minute.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Wait, wait, wait.
Commissioner Plummer: This is in-house.
335 January 23, 1992
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-62
A RESOLUTION WITH ATTACHMENT(S), APPROVING A MAJOR USE
SPECIAL PERMIT WITH CONDITIONS AS REQUIRED BY ZONING
BOARD RESOLUTION ZB 11-91, ADOPTED FEBRUARY 11, 1991,
WHICH GRANTED A VARIANCE FOR 191 OFF -SITE, OFF-STREET
PARKING SPACES AND THE CONVERSION OF 33, 132 SQUARE
FEET OF RETAIL USE TO RESTAURANT USE; PURSUANT TO
ARTICLE 17, ORDINANCE NO. 11000, AS AMENDED, THE
ZONING ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF MIAMI, FLORIDA, FOR
THE COMPLETED COCOWALK PROJECT LOCATED AT 3015 GRAND
AVENUE, MIAMI, FLORIDA, (MORE PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED
HEREIN), DEVELOPED BY GRAND OAK LIMITED PARTNERSHIP,
WHICH PROJECT CONSISTS OF 61,637 SQUARE FEET (S.F.) OF
RETAIL AREA; 43,132 S.F. OF RESTAURANT AREA AND 51,
929 S.F. OF CINEMA AREA TOTALLING 156,698 S.F. OF
FLOOR AREA (NOT INCLUDING SERVICE AND LOADING AREAS)
AND SPECIFICALLY APPROVING 535 PARKING SPACES ON TWO
BELOW -GRADE AND TWO ABOVE -GRADE LEVELS COMPRISING
APPROXIMATELY 230,000 S.F. OF GARAGE AREA;
ESTABLISHING AN EXPIRATION DATE; MAKING FINDINGS;
DIRECTING THE CITY MANAGER TO INSTRUCT THE PLANNING
DIRECTOR TO TRANSMIT A COPY OF THIS RESOLUTION TO THE
DEVELOPER; PROVIDING THAT THE MAJOR USE SPECIAL PERMIT
SHALL BE BINDING ON THE APPLICANT AND SUCCESSORS IN
INTEREST; PROVIDING FOR RELIANCE ON THE APPLICATION
AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner De Yurre, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Mayor Xavier Suarez.
336 January 23, 1992
--- -- -- ------------- --- ---- -------- --------------------- ---------- - ---- --- -- --
39. APPROVE CODESIGNATION OF A DOWNTOWN STREET IN HONOR OF ROBERT F. CLARK
(FORMER CHIEF DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY AND SPECIAL COUNSEL) -- WAIVE ALL
FEES.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commissioner Plummer: Vice Mayor.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: This Commission out of its gratitude to Bob Clark,
former City Attorney, designated a monument to be placed in the downtown. I
move at this time that the fees be waived and that the City pickup the tab in
dedication to a man who gave his life to this City. I so move that the fees
be absorbed by the Administration.
Commissioner De Yurre: How much?
Vice Mayor Alonso: Okay.
Commissioner Dawkins: How much?
Mr. Jim Kay: Seven hundred dollars.
Vice Mayor Alonso: How much?
Commissioner Plummer: About $400.00.
Mr. Rodriguez: Seven hundred.
Commissioner Dawkins: Second.
Vice Mayor Alonso: Okay. Call the roll, please.
337 January 23, 1992
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who
moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 92-63
A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE DESIGNATING OF A PLAZA
AND PLACEMENT OF APPROPRIATE PLAZA DESIGNATION SIGNAGE
IN THE AREA OF NORTHWEST 1ST AVENUE AND NORTHWEST 1ST
STREET, MIAMI, FLORIDA, IN HONOR OF "ROBERT F. CLARK,
ESQUIRE"; WAIVING ALL FEES IN CONNECTION WITH SAID
PLAZA DESIGNATION AND ALLOCATING THE AMOUNT OF $800.00
FROM "SPECIAL PROGRAMS AND ACCOUNTS, CONTINGENT FUND,
FY' 1991-92" TO PAY FOR THE PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION
OF SAID PLAZA DESIGNATION SIGNAGE; FURTHER, DIRECTING
THE CITY MANAGER TO INSTRUCT THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC
WORKS TO TRANSMIT A COPY OF THIS RESOLUTION TO THE
HEREIN DESIGNATED OFFICES AND AGENCIES.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on
file in the Office of the City Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Dawkins, the resolution was passed
and adopted by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner Victor De Yurre
Commissioner Miller J. Dawkins
Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Vice Mayor Miriam Alonso
NOES: None.
ABSENT: Mayor Xavier Suarez
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Agenda items PZ-11, PZ-12, PZ-13
and PZ-14 were continued to second February. 18, 1992.
338 January 23, 1992
E
•
THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE CITY
COMMISSION, THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 9:05 P.M.
ATTEST:
Natty Hirai
CITY CLERK
Walter J. Foeman
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
Xavier L. Suarez
MAYOR
339 January 23, 1992