HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1997-07-03 Minutesr
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OF KETING HELD ON DULY 3, 1997
PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
CITY HALL
WALTER FOEKAN
CITY CLERK
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INDEX
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING
July 3, 1997
ITEM
SUBJECT
LEGISLATION
PAGE
NO.
NO.
1.
REVIEW DISTRICT MAPS -- DISCUSSION
DISCUSSION
1-37
REGARDING FEASIBILITY OF FIVE MEMBER
7/3/97
OR SEVEN MEMBER DISTRICT MAPS --
DISCUSSION REGARDING AT -LARGE
MAYOR -- DISCUSSION REGARDING
TIMELINESS OF DRAWING DISTRICTS'
BOUNDARIES --DISCUSSION REGARDING
FORMAT AND PLACEMENT OF BALLOT
QUESTIONS -- DISCUSSION REGARDING
POWERS OF EXECUTIVE MAYOR -- PUBLIC
HEARING.
2.
APPROVE FIVE MEMBER DISTRICT WITH
M 97-445
37-44
EXECUTIVE MAYOR -- DISCUSS DISTRICT
7/3/97
BOUNDARIES AT LATER TIME.
3.
INSTRUCT CITY MANAGER TO REVIEW AND
DISCUSSION
44
PREPARE REPORT TO CITY COMMISSION
7/3/97
ON CITY'S POSITION REGARDING MARTIN
LUTHER KING's PROJECT LOAN.
4.
BRIEF DISCUSSION REGARDING PAYMENT
DISCUSSION
44-45
FOR CONFISCATED SHIPS DOCKED AT
7/3/97
MARITIME PARK PROPERTY.
5.
DIRECTION TO ADMINISTRATION FOR
DISCUSSION
45-47
j
SOLID WASTE TO SELL ABANDONED
7/3/97
I
SHOPPING CARTS.
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6.
A APPROVE WITH MODIFICATIONS
M 97-446
47-86
PROPOSED BALLOT LANGUAGE AND TEXT
7/3/97
REGARDING FIVE MEMBER DISTRICTS AND
EXECUTIVE MAYOR.
(B) INSTRUCT CITY MANAGER TO HIRE
PROFESSIONAL TRANSLATOR TO INFORM
PUBLIC ABOUT PRESERVING THE CITY AND
DISTRICTS ISSUES.
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7. 6Ad DISCUSSION REGARDING DEFINITION R 97-447 86-95
DISTRICT BOUNDARIES -- SCHEDULE M 97-448
FURTHER DISCUSSION FOR CITY 7/3/97
COMMISSION MEETING OF JULY 10, 1997.
CB) APPROVE LANGUAGE FOR PROPOSED
HARTER AMENDMENT PROVIDING FOR
EXECUTIVE MAYOR AND A FIVE MEMBER
DISTRICT COMMISSION.
(C) DESIGNATE COASTAL DISTRICT AS
DISTRICT 2 -- DESIGNATE FLAGAMI
DISTRICT AS DISTRICT 4.
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
On the July day of 3, 1996, the City Commission of Miami, Florida, met at its special
meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami, Florida in regular session.
The meeting was called to order at 7:25 a.m. by Mayor Joe Carollo with the following
members of the Commission found to be present:
ALSO PRESENT:
ABSENT:
Mayor Joe Carollo
Vice Mayor Wifredo Gort
Commissioner Tomas Regalado
Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Humberto Hernandez
A. Quinn Jones, III, City Attorney
Walter J. Foeman, City Clerk
Maria J. Argudin, Assistant City Clerk
Edward Marquez, City Manager
An invocation was delivered by Reverend James Phillips, after which Mayor Carollo,
then led those present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag.
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. REVIEW DISTRICT MAPS -- DISCUSSION REGARDING FEASIBILITY OF
FIVE MEMBER OR SEVEN MEMBER DISTRICT MAPS -- DISCUSSION
REGARDING AT -LARGE MAYOR -- DISCUSSION REGARDING
TIMELINESS OF DRAWING DISTRICTS' BOUNDARIES --DISCUSSION
REGARDING FORMAT AND PLACEMENT OF BALLOT QUESTIONS --
DISCUSSION REGARDING POWERS OF EXECUTIVE MAYOR -- PUBLIC
HEARING.
Mayor Carollo: We left it at the last district meeting that we were going to look over some
additional new districting plans. If you could begin anytime you would like to present it to the
Commission.
Mr. David Whittington (Chief of GIS/General Information Services): Since the last meeting, the
consultants have prepared three plans, essentially two plans. The two plans that they are putting
July 3, 1997
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forward today are plans five -three, which is the latest of a five district plan that the consultants
feel is legally acceptable and defensible. They are also putting forward a seven district plan as
they were directed. There were two versions of this. The one they feel is the best of the two, is
the seven -one (b), that is the one that's showing. I have the seven -one plan, it's simply on the
flip side of the seven -one (b), if people care to look at that.
Commissioner Plummer: Copies of that, all I have is seven -one (b).
Mr. Whittington: The seven...
Commissioner Plummer: I don't have it. I guess it's seven -one (a).
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Mr. Whittington: Seven -one (a), is in this packet. Aaron, if you would start it this way? Esther,
could you get the packet that's says July 3rd on it and distribute that to the Commissioners, on
that side?
Commissioner Plummer: Is this packet you have just given me a total packet with everything?
Mr. Whittington: No, sir. No, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: No, OK. I have got seven...
Mr. Whittington: The plans came in throughout the day, so we weren't able to assemble an
entire packet at one time. The seven -one (b) was delivered to you...
Commissioner Plummer: I have that.
Mr. Whittington: ... at the end of the day.
Commissioner Plummer: I have that.
Mr. Whittington: So, as I said, the critical new plans that we will look at today are five -three,
seven -one (b), seven -one, if you please? Although, the consultants feel...
Commissioner Plummer: I have got it. Thank you.
Mr. Whittington: ... that seven -one (b) is the better seven district plan.
Commissioner Hernandez: David, you are saying there is a seven one and seven -one (b)?
Mr. Whittington: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Commissioner Hernandez: Where is the seven -one, because I don't have that.
Commissioner Plummer: That's in that packet, that new packet they just handed out.
Mr. Whittington: Seven -one is in the big packet that says seven... July 3rd on it.
Commissioner Hernandez: OK, can I get one of those because I don't have one?
Mr. Whittington: Esther was distributing that.
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Commissioner Hernandez; No, I only have seven -one (b) in my packet.
Mr. Whittington: Esther, for Commissioner Hernandez, the July 3rd.
Mr. Walter J. Foeman (City Clerk): David.
Mr. Whittington: The July 3rd.
Mr. Foeman: Excuse me. David...
Mr. Whittington: Yes.
Mr. Foeman: ... the only packet we have is earmarked, it's dated July 2nd, not July 3rd.
Mr. Whittington: There is a July 3rd packet over there, is there not, Esther? If there is not, come
over here, I can show you where there is some more.
Commissioner Plummer: Just for the record, July 3rd packet was never distributed to the
Commission.
Mr. Aaron Weeks (Chief of Staff): Commissioners, let's make sure everyone has the correct
packages and then Commissioner Gort, if we could get...?
Commissioner Gort: ... Can't hear you.
Commissioner Plummer: Your microphone is off, Willy. Professor, can you hear now. Hello?
Dr. Allan Lichtman (spakerphone): Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Yes. We are not calling collect.
Dr. Lichtman: I appreciate that.
Commissioner Plummer: Humberto, the reason July the 3rd was not distributed to us, until this
morning, just now.
Mr. Whittington: The reason is, that you were given the two proposed plans by the consultants.
Two special deliveries. In the morning, you were provided with the five district plan, in the
afternoon you were provided with the seven district plan that they preferred. The full package
merely had all the old plans that you already had received. And, that's for somebody who was
coming in brand new today.
Commissioner Plummer: Who made the decision that seven one was not a good plan?
Mr. Whittington: The consultants after they drew it indicated to me that they wanted to revise
that and send me a copy later in the afternoon.
Mr. Weeks: Commissioners, I think now will be the appropriate time for Dr. Lichtman to
explain the maps that were drawn.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Commissioner Gort: Go ahead, sir.
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Dr. Lichtman: Which map is that, the five district plan?
Commissioner Plummer: Five -three.
Dr. Lichtman: Yes, let me explain the five -three. Our efforts here was to try to combine the
original five district plan drew by the consultants, Dr. Rudy Wilson and myself with the plan
drawn by Commissioner Hernandez, to try to preserve, what I'll go over it in a minute, I believe,
are some essential features of the plan drawn by the consultants with some of the excellent work
done by Commissioner Hernandez. It was also our belief throughout this, and remains so, that
with respect to a plan drawn by the consultants, there is a certain advantage in that we do come
from outside and we try to incorporate all of the input from the community and we can in court
or before the Commission testify, very solidly, about the process we followed, which was not a
plan ever drawn on the basis of race. But always a plan drawn on the basis of neighborhoods and
socioeconomic commonalities and on the basis of the input that we received from the public,
from the Blue Ribbon Committee and from the Commission. You asked me about the
defensibility of clients with respect to the Voting Rights Act, and we discussed that last time.
But one must also bear in mind that all clients must likewise be defensible on this new doctrine
that they not be drawn predominantly on the basis of race and that you can explain the basis that
is nonracial whereby the plans were drawn. It is always possible that in addition to the Voting
Rights matter now before the courts, that an additional issue quite separate could arise under the
new doctrine about the basis to which the plan was drawn. So, we attempted to draw a plan that
incorporated elements of the Hernandez plan with elements of the consultants plan and one again
about which the consultant for this Commission or before any legal body can testify with respect
to it development. The new five -three plan preserves what we believe to be a very important
feature of the original consultant's plan, and that is the retention of the Overtown neighborhood
within the district where we got a tremendous amount of, you know, public input about
Overtown. And, to make sure that Overtown is within a district with respect to community
people testifying that this was the district with which they had the most in common with respect
to respect to neighborhood and community. And I think that was very important, we heard that
at the public hearing and before the Commission, that that was very important for the community
residents of Overtown. So, we changed Overtown within District 1. It also creates a District II in
addition... With District I, of course, is a substantial African -American majority district with
Overtown in it. It also creates a District II, which has a substantial Black influence. District II is
36 percent Anglo in voting age population, 28 percent Black, and 35 percent Hispanic. It will be
predominantly White, even adjusting for the fact that some Whites may actually be identified as
Hispanics. It will still be predominantly White in registered voters and would provide an
excellent opportunity for Anglos to elect candidates of their choice. But, it will have a
substantial Black component in registered voters of about one-third and a much smaller Hispanic
component because of a very big drop-off between Hispanic voting age population and Hispanic
registered voters. That's it as a district which provides an excellent opportunity for Anglos, the
other group within the City to elect candidates of their choice, but provide substantial Black
influence. We believe that it is important, obviously that a plan not only withstand all legal
challenges but to whatever extent possible, and it's not always possible. And, you are not going
to please everybody in any plan that unites the community. And, we heard quite a bit of
concerns from the African -American community. And, we believe if a five member plan is
adopted, that one that has Overtown within the configuration where you have it here and in
addition, that one substantial African -American majority district also provides substantial
African -American influence in a second district, would be the one most likely to unite this, and
provide opportunities to Anglos to elect to unite this community and not divide it and would be
the one, I believe is the best sensible within the lawsuit that is now pending and any future
lawsuits. With respect to the Hispanic areas, the plan as does the Hernandez plan, creates three
very solid, majority, Hispanic districts. They are all over 80 percent. They all will be substantial
Black registered voter majority districts. And, thus, Hispanics, the majority within the City will
have an opportunity to elect candidates of their choice in 60 percent of the districts. And,
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obviously, if you have a five district plan, you also, as I pointed out last time, virtually by
necessity going to have an executive Mayor and Hispanics of course, as the majority group,
within the City would have an excellent opportunity to elect the At Large Mayor. So, it does
provide very substantial representation for the majority group within the City while at the same
time, I believe providing maximum, comfortable representation for Anglos and maximum
possible representation and influence for African -Americans. With respect to the configuration
of the three Hispanic districts, that's where the most changes were made between our original
plan, and we made those changes to conform with what we believe to be the very good
configurations in those areas.
Commissioner Plummer: He is systematically wrong.
Dr. Lichtman: In the Hernandez plan and as I told the Herald as well, that there was no desire on
our part, and we made the necessary adjustments to create a plan that would place incumbent
members of the Commission in the same district.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, I see, it's up here.
Dr. Lichtman: That's a (inaudible). It is certainly not a paramount redistricting criteria. And,
like the other criteria we used, it is nonracial. So, we believe, we have come with a plan that
would satisfy every legal requirement of voting rights and the new Shaw v Reno doctrine, "one
person, one vote." And, that it is a compromise in its configuration between the Hernandez plan
and our original plan and one that if you are to choose a five district plan, would have the
greatest potential not simply to protect the City legally but to unite as much as one possible can
the various groups and neighborhoods within the City.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me ask you, because I see a major flaw here? Is this five -
three that's on the map, the same five -three that I am looking at here?
Unidentified Speaker: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: They are not the same.
Mayor Carollo: No.
Commissioner Plummer: They are not the same at all. In District II, you dip in, according to
this map, into Little Haiti, That map does not draw into Little Haiti at all.
Unidentified Speaker: Right here.
Commissioner Plummer: What?
Mayor Carollo: They gave you a different map here, by mistake, I believe.
Commissioner Gort: You got two different files...
Commissioner Plummer: You got... What? Where is...? This is the five -three I was sent.
Commissioner Gort: Look at the total package.
Commissioner Plummer: There is another five -three? How many five -three's...
Dr. Lichtman: There is one five -three.
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Commissioner Plummer: Well, I am showing on my map...
Dr. Lichtman: ... and unfortunately, I cannot see what you are...
Commissioner Plummer: No, but that's not the map up there.
Dr. Lichtman: Fax me what you are looking at, and I can make sure that it's the same plan that I
am looking at.
Mr. Weeks: It's the July 3rd package, there is a five -three map for which we are looking...
Commissioner Plummer: That comes over into...
Mr. Whittington: There is Little Haiti and this is that area you are looking at.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, well it's not delineated up there then.
Commissioner Gort: No, they got it.
Dr. Lichtman: They got it? OK.
Commissioner Plummer: All right. All right, the red line.. Yeah, the red line is not there. So,
that's...
Dr. Lichtman: We are looking at the same maps, the same demographics to answer any
questions from the Commission about the new consultant five -three.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me go back to your pronouncement of numbers. You are
saying that in Zone II, give me what you consider that to be an Anglo district?
Dr. Lichtman: Absolutely.
Commissioner Plummer: Predicated on what? Because, the numbers that I have in front of me,
shows in percentage just about an even 31 Anglo, 33 Black, 33 Hispanic.
Dr. Lichtman: Yeah, I prefer if you went down a bar and looked at the voting age populations,
because that's what we obviously used to make voting analyses. And, you can see in voting age
population, Whites are a small totality at 35.68. Hispanics are next 34.9 and Blacks at third at
27.9. So, in terms of voting age population Whites or Anglos are the polarity group within that
district about eight percentage points higher than Blacks and slightly higher than Hispanics.
However, as we well know, because of citizenship matters in terms of the citizen population and
in terms of registered voters, those who will actually be casting ballots in this district, that the
Hispanic population is going to be much lower than that. Somewhere in the mid 20s and the
Anglo registered voters is going to be much higher than that somewhere in the low 40 percent
rate and then the Blacks will be at about one third. So, 75 percent, approximately, of this district
will be Whites and African -Americans with the Whites as the predominant group. So that while
the Anglos could not by themselves, on their votes alone elect a candidate of their choice with a
relatively modest support from African -Americans, more Hispanics and Anglos would elect a
candidate of their choice. The only way that could not happen, would be if both Blacks and
Hispanic registered voters in that district at virtually 100 percent level would unite behind the
candidate of their choice. And, when I was consultant for Dade County and studied all the
election history in Dade County and Miami, that's something I never saw. So, when you get to
the electoral dynamics of the district it is quite different from the overall population and even
different from the voting age population. There is no doubt in my mind that the powerability of
Anglos being able to elect a candidate of their choice in that district is 90 percent or greater.
6 July 3, 1997
Commissioner Hernandez: Ninety percent greater than what?
Dr. Lichtman: Than the probability of Anglos being able to elect a candidate of their choice out
of a total probability of 100 percent of perfect guarantee, zero percent the perfect guarantee they
won't, is very close to 100 percentage. Ninety percent or greater than a district configured this
way will enable the Anglo voters of that district to elect their candidate of choice.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Let me... Let me, ask...?
Dr. Lichtman: Voter turnout, you have greater socioeconomic, etcetera, which would also figure
into in electoral calculation.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Let me ask you? If we were to approve one number, do we need to
approve a specific plan or just a number will do, and then decide on the boundaries later?
Dr. Lichtman: You do not today, or even Saturday need to approve a specific plan. You have
several options. One, is just to approve a number and you know, develop in a timely fashion, of
course, because the voters will want to know. But, not necessarily during the July 4th weekend,
because voters won't be paying it attention, anyway. But, in a timely fashion and develop a
specific plan. So, all you need to do, and that's one option, is to get your language and all you
need for your language is the specific number of districts and presumably what you are going to
do with the Mayor, which would logically follow. Another option, that's one option. No map at
all, just a number. Another option would be to say we are adopting five districts again, do your
language and say we are working with this map but the lines are not final. And, of course a third
option would be to adopt both the number of districts and the map. So, you can range from
number of districts to no map at all to number of districts, a working map to numbers of districts
and a specific map. But you are not compelled as yet, to draw specific lines, although certainly
you would want to do that, you know, within a timely fashion.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I don't think you could put the lines on a ballot anyhow.
Commissioner Hernandez: I... Commissioner Plummer, in discussing these two, five three and
my plan. I have to disagree with what doctor... and I spoke to Dr. Lichtman about this. There is
no question in my mind that it is a friendlier district for an Anglo to survive in my plan versus
five -three. Dr. Lichtman continues to speak of voting age population which to me is completely
misleading, and I explained my point. I think... what does that mean to a Hispanic voting age?
We can have, and again I repeat and I give the same example. We might have 20,000
Nicaraguans right now that are of voting age, but they are under deportation proceedings. So,
what does that tell us? So, that is completely misleading to us to say... to speak of voting age.
When we look at the Hispanics per se, there is a whole bunch of voting age Hispanics out there
that aren't even residents, that are undocumented, that are residents in the process of being
citizens. We can't look at that voting age number because I, being if I was to be running in that
district, looking at that district, it is a misleading number to be looking at. And, I continue to tell
the people that are here and the overall public that is listening and looking at us through the TV,
that my plan is the most friendly to the overall ethnic groups that are here in the City of Miami.
The Anglo, the African -American and the Hispanic -American community. And, the numbers
speak in and of itself, based on historical elections and traditional elections that have been held
here, in Dade County. When you look at my Hispanic breakdown for District I, versus Dr.
Lichtman's breakdown in District II, in the five -three plan.
Dr. Lichtman: Let me respond to that? I agree with you that the Hispanic voting age population
of 35 percent in my plan, in your plan, it would probably be about 47 percent Hispanics. In
either case, that of course does not represent the voting power of Hispanics. That was the point,
7 July 3, 1997
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precisely the point that I made that although it looks like, in the plan that Dr. Wilson and I drew
up, that Whites and Hispanics are about equal or Whites are slightly higher in terms of voting
age population and in terms of voting power, in terms of registered voters, that that is going to
completely change and that the percentage of White registered voters will be nearly double, not
quite, but nearly double in the consultants plan, that of Hispanics. And, that together Whites and
Black registered voters would constitute 75 percent, approximately, of the registered voters in
that district and Hispanics only 25 percent. And, that, therefore, that district would have a 90
percent or greater chance of electing an Anglo. I have no doubt that your district as well
provides an excellent chance of electing an Anglo, although I can't fully analyze it because you
only provide total population.
Commissioner Hernandez: No, but...
Dr. Lichtman: Both plans in my view provide an excellent chance, probably equal than Anglo
getting elected in that district. And, our plan actually is a slightly higher Anglo percentage in
total population their plan is 30.8, our plan is 31.5. The big difference and I believe the only
I difference between the two plans of electoral significance is that the consultants' plan provides
! much more influence to the African -American population in that district. Then, I can only
compare total population numbers because that's all I have on the plans. Our plan is 33.3
percent Black in total population, the Hernandez plan is 23.7 percent Black. Our plan has almost
ten percentage points, that's very substantial. Ten percentage points higher percentage of Blacks
in that district, the mixed district and thus provides for much greater Black influence. That's the
difference, the main difference between the two plans in the Coastal districts, both plans have an
excellent chance of electing an Anglo. The only substantial difference between the two plans, I
think is important, is a greater African -American influence under the consultants' plan.
Commissioner Hernandez: Right, and it's important to state that in my plan the Hispanic
breakdown is at 56.5 percent of the Hispanics in that district are of non -Cuban origin which
traditionally as we know have gone with an Anglo candidate or an African -American candidate.
Dr. Lichtman: Yeah. We, you know, that's certainly true. And, I have no doubt that your plan
has an excellent chance in electing an Anglo and it does have that component but our plan has
ten percentage points fewer Hispanics. Your plan is at 44.7 total population, ours is 33.7, that's
11 percentage points fewer Hispanics, therefore, it's much less important to get into the
particular Hispanics who might or might not be in the district. We were also very reluctant,
frankly, to get into that kind of racial breakdowns because we want to, you know, be able to say,
you know, we did not draw this plan on the basis of race or subdivide Hispanics racially and to
try to figure out where they should go. And, I think that would be important in terms of
defensibility of the plan against any legal challenges.
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Commissioner Plummer: Let me deviate for a minute, if I may? Is it a correct statement that
whichever plan we go with as put here with the exception, well no, you would have the Mayor
outside of any one of the plans that's been presented. Is that a correct statement?
Dr. Lichtman: That is a correct statement.
Commissioner Plummer: So, what we are looking at, whether it is four, five, six or seven, the
Mayor's position would be outside of the districting plan?
Dr. Lichtman: That's correct. It could be a Mayor who simply sits as an At -Large member of
the Commission which would be more logical than an even number of districts, or it could be an
executive Mayor which would be more logical with an odd number of districts such as five or
seven. But in all of these plans we had contemplated an at -large Mayor.
8 July 3, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, OK. Now, again you are indicating that you feel that the ballot
question would basically be two questions, one as to the number of districts without delineating
the plan and the second question would be relating to the Mayor's position.
Dr. Lichtman: I would tend to think if you adopted an odd numbered plan, that you probably
wanted it as one question if you... I'm no lawyer, and I certainly don't know the laws of your
City, but on all... You know, as I indicated when I was before you a couple of days ago, I am
very, very leery of two questions. It's makes it more difficult for the voters to understand.
There is sometimes a tendency for voters to split the difference deciding to go "yes" on one and
"no" on the other. Because if you adopted, say a five district plan, the Mayor is virtually defined
for you, the kind of Mayor you are going unless you do something very unusual that's not in line
with what other jurisdictions do. It's virtually defined for you if you adopt an odd number of
districts, you have an executive Mayor. Therefore, it seems to me, you ought to present, if you
can legally, if this works for you, a single question for the voters rather than dividing into the
two which could lead to grave problems if you get different votes. These could be called votes,
and you would really be in a bind if you got one up and one down.
Commissioner Plummer: What happens...? I am assuming then, if the question is one, relates to
districts in number five or six or seven?
Dr. Lichtman: Correct.
Commissioner Plummer: And incorporated in that same question is the Mayor's position, are
you saying that you... in the question on the ballot would delineate the authority of the Mayor or
just a simply question," do you the voters of the City of Miami want and approve a five -member
plan with an executive Mayor?"
Dr. Lichtman: I would prefer that certainly, but whether that works for you legally, whether that
would then give you enough legal authority to go ahead and have the Commission flush out the
Mayor, I can't answer that. But, if that works for you legally, politically, I think a simple, single
question poses the clearest choice for the voters. And...
Commissioner Plummer: Let's ask the City Attorney. Hello?
Mr. A. Quinn Jones, III, Esq. (City Attorney): I am here.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you heard, is it?
Mr. Jones: Well...
Commissioner Plummer: In compliance with our Charter, would that be acceptable as
recommended by Dr. Lichtman?
Mr. Jones: My recommendation is to be a little bit more specific. If you... the instructions that I
have for drafting the question were to basically mirror the same duties and responsibilities or
same powers and all that the Metro Mayor has. So, I think that out of an abundance or caution,
you want to be as specific in this regard as to what the powers will be and give the voters enough
information to make an informed decision.
Dr. Lichtman: I heard that, and that sounded pretty good.
Mr. Jones: Thank you.
Mayor Carollo: What you are saying is that we can put it into one question?
9 July 3, 1997
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, because we are limited what? By 75 words?
Mr. Jones: That's correct.
Commissioner Plummer: Now, if in fact you go on the ballot question, and use the simple
terminology of a number, at what point does the Commission determine the boundaries? Prior to
the election, after the election, 30 days before the election? At what point do you actually come
down and say, this is the boundaries that will be if you vote on it? Because, it would seem like
to me, before the election you would have to come down?
Vice Mayor Regalado: You need to because Election Department...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you need to, but I am asking the question legally since he wants
to keep it as clean as he can, in the way of a question, where do you come down on that?
Dr. Lichtman: Is that directed to me, Dr. Lichtman, or to the City Attorney?
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Commissioner Plummer: Well, either one or both.
Dr. Lichtman: Let me respond politically and then the City Attorney, of course, has the legal
expertise. Politically, it streaks me that the voters will want to know, and, therefore, you have
got to do it prior and in a timely enough fashion for the voters to...
Commissioner Plummer: ... the question on the demise.
Dr. Lichtman: ... see basic lines in the map. Even then, it doesn't have to be the absolute, final
lines on the map. But, at least the vote you should say, this is basically what it's going to look at.
Politically, I think it would be very difficult to sell a districting concept without the voters
having at least a fundamental idea where they are going to be and what the overall plan looks
like. I can't speak to the laws of the City.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I guess the reason I asked that... The other question on the ballot
refers to the demise of the City and by law we have to surrender to the voters 30 days prior to the
election a plan if the City is to be demised, what the plan would be if they voted to demise the
City, how it would proceed if that vote were to be affirmative. So, I would assume this would be
more or less the same 30 days in advance.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. City Attorney, the question of the abolition of Miami will be first, of
course, on the first page and then on the second page will be districting and Executive Mayor?
Mr. Jones: I don't know... Excuse me. Mr. Vice Mayor, I don't know that they will be on two
separate pages. They may very well appear on the same page.
Vice Mayor Regalado: But, always the Miami question will be first?
Mr. Jones: Say, what now?
Commissioner Plummer: Well, this isn't a special election, that's the only thing on the ballot.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
10 July 3, 1997
Vice Mayor Regalado: I know, but...
Mr. Jones: Well, I think... Well, I would think that depends on how the Elections Department
arranges it. I don't know that we can request...
Vice Mayor Regalado: I was going to say that, that we should request that the City of Miami
question will be first...
Mayor Carollo: It should be.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Vice Mayor Regalado: ... and then districting and executive Mayor question will be second.
Commissioner Plummer: Where do we go from here? (phonetic)
Mayor Carollo: OK.
Mr. Jones: Seven.
Commissioner Plummer: Seven?
Mayor Carollo: Let's go to the seventh.
Dr. Lichtman: We are going to the seventh now?
Mayor Carollo: Correct.
Dr. Lichtman: OK. The basic concept behind the seven was that we would base it on our
original latest version of the sixth plan as well as trying to incorporate some of the concepts of
the Hernandez plan and as I said to also, if possible, as a final criteria avoid carrying incumbents
within the same district and to try, because we have an additional district to respect the
communities as much as we possibly can. And, basically what we did was, we developed a plan
that likewise includes the coastal districts, includes districts based upon the Little Haiti and
Model City and Overtown communities. Both of which are majority African -American, a
substantial majority African -American districts. The coastal district is, not majority but polarity
Anglo, 43.6 percent Anglo, and would actually be a majority Anglo in terms of registered voters.
So, that would be an excellent opportunity for Anglos to elect candidates of choice in their
district. There is some African -American influence there as well, with 23 percent. And then in
the Hispanic areas we created four very solidly Hispanic districts, all of them at over 80 percent.
Again, not based on... this comes out not based on race but just based on the groups that are in
the South of the river, communities within the City of Miami excluding the coastal area. We did
not in this plan have the districts that are based in the north area, Districts I and II, as we had to
in the sixth district plan come down south of the river. None of those districts, now because we
heard three of the concerns and examined the Hernandez plan from down south of the river. So,
basically it's a plan that can be a little bit more specific with respect tot he communities. It can
be drawn on a strictly non-racial basis and in terms of the... when it comes down in terms of the
racial and ethnic groups, it creates true majority African -American districts, one very substantial
Anglo district and four overwhelming majority Hispanic districts. And likewise, it would be
logical to follow in a seven as in a five an Executive Mayor model. I'll be happy to answer any
questions about this plan or any other matters, but, I think the plan is fairly self-explanatory.
Mayor Carollo: The major difference in the new seven plan is in seven -one (b), the difference
from seven -one is that, I believe in District I and I1 is where you basically have your change in,
correct?
11
July 3, 1997
Dr. Lichtman: That's right, just smoothed out Districts I and 11, in terms of the communities. It
makes no difference in terms of the majority, the demographics in those districts or anywhere
else in the plan. That's correct.
Mayor Carollo: You know, you basically didn't touch any of the other...
Dr. Lichtman: No.
Mayor Carollo: ... five districts, just those two within themselves.
Dr. Lichtman: That's correct. That's just, you know... Bear in mind we had to do these under,
you know, white heat of deadlines.
Mayor Carollo: We understand that and appreciate it very much.
Dr. Lichtman: I mean, Dr. Wilson has just done a superb job of coming up with these lines as
quickly as he did.
Mayor CarolIo: Actually, in all of these the percentage of African -Americans and Anglos would
be higher per district than what we have here because we are going strictly on population and
over 18 population at that.
Dr. Lichtman: That's right. You have a very substantial African -American populations in one
and two and a larger Anglo population in District III than in any of the other plans and that
logically follows the more districts you have, the more specific you can be with respect to
neighborhoods within the City. That's just... We talked about that before, just mathematically as
you increase the number of districts, the differentiations within the plan become more calibrated
and finer.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, it would seem to me that in both District I and II in the new seven -one (b)
plan, that you would end up with somewhere in the neighborhood of about 75 percent African -
American registration?
Dr. Lichtman: That's exactly correct, at least.
Mayor Carollo: Uh-huh. On District II1, which is the Anglo excess district, you could end up
with a majority Anglo voter registration in that district?
Dr. Lichtman: I would anticipate that, yes, sir. That's exactly correct. And of course, all the
Hispanic districts would have overwhelming Hispanic voter registration as well as 18 and over
population.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, right now they are at right around an average of 90 percent each. That
still should be well over 70 percent.
Dr. Lichtman: Well over 70 percent voter registration Hispanic. That's correct. It's also true at
the three Hispanic districts under our five plan, as well. They are also all over 70 percent in
terms of voter registration Hispanic.
Mayor Carollo: If I may give the opportunity to address you to Donna Ballman, for a minute? I
am not going to open it up to the public, just yet. But, I do want to give Donna an opportunity to
ask the professor a question or two.
12 July 3, 1997
Div i1j:e't r
Ms. Donna Ballman: Ah, Donna. Is the mike on?
Mayor Carollo: Yes. Is it on, is the mike on?
Commissioner Plummer: It is now.
Ms. Ballman: Where is it? Oh, OK. My name is Donna Ballman, my address is 13899
Biscayne Boulevard, Miami, Florida 33181. I have a question probably directed to the professor
about the seven district plan. We have talked about staggering, and I think we have figured out
pretty much how the staggering would work for the five district plan. For the seven district plan,
obviously we would he staggering like three at one time and then four at another. I guess my
question and concern, obviously Districts I and II, under the seven district plan in order for it to
be upheld would need to go up right away in '97. Would you then like to pick a third plan, like
all three north ones, or two norths and one south? I mean how would, how would the staggering
work for the seven district plan?
Dr. Lichtman: I really hadn't thought about that, to tell you the truth, a very good question. It
would not make a whole lot of sense but you could do it. But, it would, you know, create a little
bit of oddness to stagger it two five. In other words to have five districts come up right away.
You would probably would have to have, just to make good government sense, you might have
to have a third district come up and for legal reasons you probably, the African -American
districts would have to come up. So, you may, you have to, you know, do something about
letting another district come up or you can go with two five if you want to preserve the stagger.
And, you know, that creates a little bit of mathematical oddness but that would be something that
the Commission would have to debate and decide if they decided to go with the seven and
staggered terms.
Ms. Ballman; So, with the seven, what the Commission could do is, they would say basically,
obviously the one and two would pretty much have to go up and then they would pick a third or
whatever they wanted, whatever they thought was appropriate to...
Dr. Lichtman: That's correct.
Ms. Ballman: ... go up at the same time as those two, and then the other ones would be going up
at the different time?
Dr. Lichtman: Or they could have four go up, you know. It's up to, you know, so long as they
have the three four, they could have three go up immediately or four go up immediately.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, in effect, you do have four and four every two years.
Dr. Lichtman: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: Because in one year you would have four Commissioners and then
two years from then you would have three Commissioners and a Mayor. So, it would be four
people.
Dr. Lichtman:... could be worked out.
Commissioner Plummer: It's four people running every time.
Dr. Lichtman: Seven district plan and staggered terms. It would just be up to the Commission to
decide how to apportion, how to decide which districts come up at which particular time.
13 July 3, 1997
A
Mayor Carolio: We are talking exactly what Dade County has?
Commissioner Plummer: ... I got this like I am sure the rest of us did.
Commissioner Hernandez: But that's not what we have here.
Commissioner Plummer: A 23-page document handed to me this morning which is the
resolution pertaining to this.
Mr. Jones: Well, let me just say, Commissioner, L. when I sent you the ballot message
yesterday...
Commissioner Plummer: yeah.
Mr. Jones: ... I indicated at that time that, you know, it's a pains taking effort to go through and I
don't think what many... what may have been realized or whatever you did would impact several
provisions of the Charter, which would have to correspondently be amended. So, we worked
through yesterday and last night to come up with this document and that's what you have. I
1 apologize if it caused you any inconvenience but...
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. Excuse me. I am not finding fault...
Mr. Jones: Oh.
Commissioner Plummer: ... with you...
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: ... because we all understand the time frames that you are working
under...
Mr. Jones: Yeah, yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: ... but I want the public to understand that here we are this morning,
trying to discuss an issue that we just got this morning. That's the point I am trying to make.
Mr. Jones: OK. To answer your question. As presently under the Dade County Charter, the
duties and responsibilities, of the Mayor. The Mayor has veto authority over any legislative
quasi judicial, zoning, master plan or land use decision of the Commission, including the budget
or any particular component contained therein which may have been approved by the
Commission. There is a further provision that if a revenue item is vetoed, an expenditure item in
the same or greater dollar amount must also be vetoed. The Commission has the power to
override that veto by two-thirds vote of the Commissioners present at a given meeting.
I Secondarily, the Mayor has the power to appoint the Manager, subject to approval by a majority
of the Commissioners then in office within 14 days of the appointment. The Mayor also has the
power to remove the Manager subject to the Commission conducting a hearing within 10 days of
removal and the Commission has the power to override the Mayor's action by a two-thirds vote
of the Commission. Additionally, the Commission has the power to remove the Manager by a
two-thirds vote. The... thirdly, the Mayor has the power to appoint members of all standing
committees including the chairperson and vice -chairperson of each committee. And, fourthly,
the Mayor has the responsibility of duty to deliver a budgetary address to the County between
November 1 and January 31st annually. And, fifthly, the Mayor has the duty to deliver a
budgetary address annually between July 1 and September 30th.
15 July 3, 1997
wx-v A.
Commissioner Plummer: If this is passed...? Well, I am getting into something else now. Mr.
City Attorney?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: I am trying to... We were just handed this so called resolution this
morning. You have got flaws in here, not you, of course. It says here "if a Commissioner",
which this one is not interested "were to want to run for Mayor, he must give a resignation 90
days in advance", well September 4th to November whatever that date is, is more than 90 days or
less than 90 days, so that would not apply here.
Mayor Carollo: That could be taken out, no problem.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I think it would have to be at least understood or modified.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, for this election, yeah. For this election it should be modified.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, it would have to be. I have personally no problem leaving it in,
but...
Mr. Weeks: Commissioner, however, you have not reached that date yet. That will be
November from the... I am sorry, 90 days from the election which will be in November. So, you
would still have time. Not, from the...
Commissioner Plummer: September 4th to October 4th, October 4th to November 4th, you got
approximately 70 days. So, it just couldn't happen. That would be... no way that nobody could
do it in 90 days. What is the actual date of the election, has anybody determined...?
Dr. Lichtman: It's November 4th.
Commissioner Plummer: November 4th? OK. So, it would definitely be 60 days total.
September to October, October to November, 60 days.
Mr. Weeks: plan approved. (phonetic)
Commissioner Plummer: Your plan for what? But, it has not been approved. You can have a
plan out for 120 days, but until it's been approved it doesn't start the clock running. It's not
approved by the voters, it's got to be approved by the voters before it becomes legal. Hey, I am
just saying that's...
Commissioner Hernandez: Quinn, can you get into the issue of veto powers and what powers
the Commission would have to then veto the decision of the Mayor to veto any vote of the City
Commission whether it be a super majority or just a regular majority? Will it have to be...?
How many would have to be present? I think that is very important.
Mayor Carollo: Could you explain it in the terms just as it is now...
Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: ... in Dade County as it was approved by the voters?
Commissioner Gort: I think we can defer it?
Commissioner Plummer: And, just for the record...
14 July 3, 1997
Commissioner Plummer: Does he pay for the luncheon? It was my... Excuse me. If we are
going to go by the same as Dade County...
Mr. Jones: Uh-huh.
Commissioner Plummer: ... it is my understanding is, that the Mayor does not meet with the
Commission?
Mr. Jones: I am not sure.
Commissioner Hernandez: That's how it works now.
Mr. Jones: Yeah. He's...
Commissioner Hernandez: The Commissioner meets and the Mayor could make a presentation
to the Commission but he does not make...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, but in this document that I am reading, it says "the Mayor shall
provide... preside at the meetings."
Commissioner Hernandez: Well...
Commissioner Plummer: It is my understanding that in Dade County, they have a president of
Counsel who is the presiding officer of the Commission.
Mayor Carollo: That's correct. The...
Commissioner Hernandez: That's Correct.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, that's not correct in this document on page seven, item number
one, under "G."
Mayor Carollo: The wording should be to mere the exact language that Dade County has...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, that's...
Mayor Carollo: ... that was approved is that the Mayor may preside at meetings of the
Commission and perform such other duties consistent with his office and this Charter as may be
imposed by the Commission, after the may, "the Mayor may preside at meetings and we need to
add "or to designate a presiding officer, like the County has. That's the exact wording of the
County.
Commissioner Hernandez: OK, let's not get off tract. Quinn?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Hernandez: My question, we want to override the Mayor's decision to veto a
Commission decision. According to what you just stated, it's a majority of...
Commissioner Plummer: Two-thirds.
Commissioner Hernandez: ... whomever is present. So, if we be in a five district plan, we would
need at least three Commissioners here, and then two out of three would have to vote in order
16 July 3, 1997
'1K'SC�f"�n
to... is that the situation or if would we need tour Commissioners to be present and then have
three out of four or... how will that work?
Mr. Jones: Well, presently the way our Charter reads it would be a majority of all the
Commissioners, not those present it. So, if you wanted it to... structured the way you do, you
would have to also mirror it such that it would be a majority of those members present. So, if
you...
Commissioner Hernandez: A majority of the members present, but we would have to have all
five members on the Commission?
Mr. Jones: No. We could change that because that's the way it is now.
Mayor Carollo: Which way is it in the way that the County has it and what...? What I think we
need...
Mr. Jones: The majority of...
Mayor Carollo: ... but what I think we need to establish is also, on this particular questions is,
what is a super majority?
Mr. Jones: Uh-huh. It would a majority of those present at the meeting.
Commissioner Plummer: So, if it were three, two could override the Mayor?
Mr. Jones: Yes. Super majority. But see...
Commissioner Plummer: But, wait a minute. What is the difference between a majority and a
super majority? And, is there a super, super majority?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Is a super majority all unanimous vote?
Mayor Carollo: No.
Mr. Jones: No. If you go...
Dr. Lichtman: No, no.
Commissioner Plummer: Four out of five, three out of five?
Mr. Jones: That would be... four of five would be super majority.
Mayor Carollo: Four out of five.
Mr. Jones: That would be extraordinary, yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: And, that's not what it's calling for here?
Mr. Jones: If only three then it would be three out of three.
Commissioner Plummer: But, if in...
17 July 3, 1997
y..
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Hernandez: That will be a super majority.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: But, that's not what we are calling here.
Commissioner Hernandez: Exactly.
Commissioner Plummer: Here you are saying two-thirds?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Commissioner Hernandez: So, therefore...
Mr. Jones: Well, that's the decision that you have to make depending on the number that you go
with.
Mayor Carollo: Well, Dade County has the two-thirds, correct?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah,
Commissioner Hernandez: Two-thirds, yeah.
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Hernandez: Two-thirds of those that are present?
Mr. Jones: Yes. Two -two thirds of those that are present.
Commissioner Hernandez: OK. But, obviously in a five district plan or... A five district we will
need at least three people present?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Hernandez: Right.
Mayor Carollo: Right. You can't have a meeting with at least three present....
Commissioner Hernandez: Three present and...
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Hernandez: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, just for the record. I assume that we are planning on
meeting again Saturday?
Commissioner Hernandez: No. I am not here Saturday.
Commissioner Plummer: No.
18 July 3, 1997
Commissioner Gort: I am not here.
Commissioner Plummer: All right, are we going...? All right, so then... OK. I can concur with
that if in fact we are going to put forth that which is the simple question. If we are going to go
into any detail then I think we have got to meet again. Because, you know, I just cannot read 23
pages of one document, all of the other documents that we have here, and try to make a decision
today.
Commissioner Hernandez: I agree with you.
Commissioner Plummer: I can vote for a simple ballot question today.
Vice Mayor Regalado: J.L., that's what I asked at the beginning to Dr. Lichtman is, if we can
adopt a number and a question and then later decide on the details and he agreed that we can do
that.
Commissioner Plummer: Then, I have no problem. But, if they are going to go and do any
delineation whatsoever, into specifics, then I am not ready to vote.
Mr. Jones: Well, let me say this Commissioners. Whatever you do today would have to... or
before, I said before July 6th, would have to encompass an entire resolution like I presented to
you today. Because, those... whatever you decide to do and in terms of the number of districts
and or with the Executive Mayor, the corresponding Charter provisions have to be amended and
that has to be passed by you before July 6th. So, it's just not as simple as passing a ballot
language. You have got to pass a document in total.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you see that's the 23 page document.
Mayor Carollo: What will be wrong if we passed correspondence resolution instead of going
through item by item on the 23 pages that we have here on the changes that we will make within
the Charter? And, that's hoping that we didn't forget anything, or...
Mr. Jones: Right.
Mayor Carollo: ... leave anything out. What will be wrong if we will just pass a resolution
stating that... the changes that we will be making in our Charter, that we have to make, will
mirror the changes that were made at the County? So, if there is any question on which way we
want to go, we are mirroring what the County has done.
Mr. Jones: Well, let me say this, Mr. Mayor? In going through many of these provisions we had
to modify because existing Charter provisions either conflict with what they, you know, what
they presently have and we have had to slightly modify in many instances. So, it's... while it's to
say that we are mirroring in one sense is true, but it will not, I can... I have to tell you that in
many instances we have had to modify many of those provisions because they conflict with other
Charter provisions.
Vice Mayor Regalado: But, why is it that we cannot approve a certain number and a certain
concept of the Mayor and have it on time for the ballot question and then decide on the details of
both issues?
Mr. Jones: Because, Commissioner, you are, Vice Mayor, your Charter specifically says that
you must pass a resolution with any Charter provisions that are going to appear on the September
4th ballot not later than July 6th. That's the reason why.
19 July 3, 1997
Mayor Carollo: What time can you all make it on Saturday to finalize the last part of it? Now,
we could approve the concept and decide how many districts today and you have two whole days
to read over everything else we need to do. Unless, we would like to come back or are able to
come back later today.
Unidentified Speaker: Later today.
Vice Mayor Regalado: I will be back.
Commissioner Hernandez: We might as well stay here all day. I am not going to be here on
Saturday, I will tell you that.
Mayor Carollo: Well, that made it real easy.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, can we do this, if we want to finalize late afternoon? This
afternoon after... is it possible after six?
' Mayor Carollo: If that's the time, we will come back to finalize it. Six in the evening, correct?
Commissioner Hernandez: Yes. Mr. Mayor, I have another question on the resolution...
Commissioner Gort: We are here seven o'clock in the morning.
Commissioner Plummer: You are not here seven o'clock for me. You are here at seven o'clock
so all you guys can go to work and I can go to work. My customers don't make appointments.
Commissioner Hernandez: Quinn...
Vice Mayor Regalado: But, they don't knock on your door.
Commissioner Hernandez: Mr. Mayor, there is a major difference on... if we could go on page
eight of the resolution, so we can at least discuss that, between?
Mayor Carollo: On what page?
Commissioner Hernandez: Page eight, section seven, as to the appointment of standing
committees. In the current, what was approved and exists in the County Charter, it was not
defined what standing committees were going to represent, who was going to be representing, or
the members in the standing committees. Here, we have gone one step over what was approved
which was to actually define what a standing committee is, and who is going to serve on the
standing committee and who is going to appoint the standing committee. Can you address that,
Quinn?
Mr. Jones: Yeah. When we were going through this, it became obvious that, at least obvious in
our minds as to whether in fact these standing committees would be, like Off-street Parking, or
Zoning Board, Planning Board, those types of things. It was clear in my mind that I didn't think
that that was the intent. But, I did speak with the County Attorney's office and they did indicate
to me, at least their take on it is that the standing committees or the special committees simply
would be comprised of members of the Commission. If they had to do it over again, they would
define it just as we have defined it here, to make it absolutely clear.
Commissioner Hernandez: So, it is not presently defined in the County Charter how it was
approved, who will be a member of the standing committee?
20 July 3, 1997
1lA.t P.�r,h�ttY
`i
1 ..0
Mr. Jones: No, it's not.
Commissioner Hernandez: OK, and in this case, would you have put in that you have strictly
defined that those members on the standing committee will be Commission members?
Mr. Jones: That's correct.
Commissioner Plummer: But appointed by the Mayor?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Mayor Carollo: That's what the County says?
Commissioner PIummer: Yeah, I understand what the County said, but...
Mayor Carollo: Well, what... yeah. What he is doing is basically spelling it out clearer, but we
could leave it with the same language and...
Commissioner Hernandez; I prefer to define, to define who is going to be on the standing
committee. I think it's better to make sure who is going to be... who we know is going to be
appointed rather than leaving it up in the air, who can be appointed as in the County, it's left up
in the air.
Mayor Carollo: Uh-huh.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, because these would be committees like, if the Mayor wants to appoint a
finance committee or a budget committee or fiscal, whatever. Whatever, he deemed, you
know...
Commissioner Plummer: Well...
Mr. Jones: ... unlike... And, this does not take away. Excuse me, this does not imperil or take
away any of the power that you still have as a Commission to appoint members to other
committees that you may deem appropriate that you want citizen input, whatever else. You still
have the power to do that.
Commissioner Plummer: No, I was of the impression that we were going to try to come to the
system in the County where they have a finance committee, that you cannot go before the
Commission before you go before the finance committee, or any of the committees, have to look
and go through a procedure prior to going to the County Commission. And, that's the area that I
am drawing on the committees from. And, I don't find that's spelled out in here.
Mr. Jones: That is the provision that those committees were established under.
Commissioner Gort: Let me say this, I received this, this morning. I didn't get a chance to go
through it. So, it may be very difficult for me to take a decision on this right now. On this
document itself, I have to go through it.
Commissioner Plummer: Well...
Vice Mayor Regalado: Still, Mr. Mayor, I think that it will be unfair if we leave now and come
back later tonight, if we don't take a decision now on the number...
21 July 3, 1997
Commissioner Hernandez: I agree.
Vice Mayor Regalado: ... of districts and on the concept of the Executive Mayor.
Commissioner Gort: That decision I could take.
Mayor Carollo: I agree, that needs to be taken now. What I suggested now was that we come
back to define the 23 pages of the Charter changes that we would then have to do. It would give
us a few hours to go over it before we come back. And, if need be, maybe we might be more
prepared, maybe not, maybe we might need some extra time, as we were told we could have to
define the boundaries of whatever number of districts we go with.
Vice Mayor Regalado: So, I am ready to vote on the numbers.
Mayor Carollo: OK, before we do that, I will like to give the public, one last time to express
themselves on any of the districts components that we have discussed or on any of the other
issues related to the topic at hand. What I would need to do is, is to limit everyone that will
come up to, a strict two minutes. And, to have everyone that would like to speak before this
body to line up on either side of the podium so that we could know already how many people are
going to be speaking. Can someone move those maps from there so they won't be in the way for
the public, please? OK, all right. If everyone can state their names and addresses before they
begin to speak. Sir, you have two minutes.
Mr. Enos Schera: Thank you. My name is Enos Schera. E-N-O-S S-C-H-E-R-A. Citizen of...
resident of Dade County, property and taxpayer. I would like to request that on the coastal
boundary, and I think it's District number III, that the mandatory words and the language of
the... the plan that you plan to draw state primarily that only a white person can run in that
district, otherwise... The way that I see things going, it could be even a situation of a Richard P.
Dunn situation, whereby you wouldn't even be provided a voting district. So, this is my request.
Just to request to make it mandatory so that only a white person can run in that district. It's the
coastal district you mentioned over here that has a predominantly amount of voting age
population of whites in it, composed of a smaller amount of Blacks and Hispanics. And, that's
my request.
Commissioner Hernandez: Sir, that would be completely illegal. How can you be... how can
just say only a white person can run for a district?
Mr. Schera: Well, because otherwise it's going to wind up with a Marvin, a Richard P. Dunn
situation, whereby...
Commissioner Hernandez: What is Richard P. Dunn situation?
Mr. Schera: A Richard P. Dunn situation is, there was a Black Commissioner here before. And,
when he left, you are the fella that replaced him, see?
Commissioner Hernandez: Right.
Mr. Schera: So, really, that should have been a Black seat.
Commissioner Hernandez: How's that?
Mr. Schera: By all rights... by rights to the Black community, it should have been a Black seat,
really. And, of course you won the election.
22 July 3, 1997
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Commissioner Hernandez: Sir, that is so undemocratic and so discriminatory in nature.
Mr. Schera: No, it's not undemocratic, sir. This is America...
Commissioner Hernandez: For you to say that only a white person can run for a seat. I mean
you...
Mr. Schera: Well...
Commissioner Hernandez: I am not even going to discuss this.
Mayor Carollo: Well...
Mr. Schera: Here is my position. Look, here is my position.
Mayor Carollo: Why don't you define...?
Commissioner Plummer: Sometimes, we wonder about Humberto.
Mayor Carollo: Why, don't you define? Sir, if...
Mr. Schera: Yeah, that's what I mean. Sometimes, we do wonder about America. Now, here is
the thing, sir. I mean, you brought up this case. We are drawing boundary lines actually, look at
it here. There used to be a thing called gerrymandering, and it was illegal to gerrymander zigzag
lines to encompass certain ethnic groups. And, all of a sudden lately, since the single member
district business came up, it's... the latest thing to do is to be drawing gerrymandering districts or
compositions of block vote people, of Black, White and Hispanics. Now, the whole map is
composed of that so don't tell me it's illegal.
Mayor Carollo: Can?
Mr. Schera: That's what the whole map is composed of.
Mayor Carollo: Can I ask you something, sir?
Mr. Schera: Yeah, sure.
Mayor Carollo: Could you define for us, your idea, your version of what a White person is for
your request so we would know?
Mr. Schera: Well, I mean for categories the government has been classifying guys that look like
me as white. Hispanic classifications according to the government has been broken down to
primarily speakers of Spanish and primarily speakers that come from Spain. Then we have the
Black population which primarily came from Africa. That's my answer. I don't mean that I am
any better than anybody, but I mean the white population like J.L. Plummer, he would be
classified as a white. Now, he needs a district too, and so do I.
Commissioner Plummer: Thanks. You are over generous this morning.
Mr. Schera: Well, I mean, look. If there is white people in America, we need to stand and have
a seat too.
Mayor Carollo: Well, so where... we have come down to the point.
23 July 3, 1997
W&A
Commissioner Plummer: Say, Joe, let a white...
Mayor Carollo: We have come down to the point that only a J.L., Plummer type can run that
district.
Commissioner Plummer: I have no problem with that at all.
Mr. Schera: White people have to be represented...
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, sir. Let me...
Mayor Carollo: Is this guy related to you or...?
Mr. Schera: Yeah, sure, sure.
Commissioner Plummer: He doesn't look like he's from Key West to me.
Mr. Schera: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, you have to understand as I have to understand, that there is no
district, none, that could be drawn in the City of Miami guaranteeing an Anglo election, none.
Mr. Schera: Well, there should be. There should be.
Commissioner Plummer: There is no way gerrymandering or otherwise that you can use the
numbers to provide a so called "Anglo" seat.
Mr. Schera: I realize that.
Commissioner Plummer: If you draw a district with Anglos predominant, then you are saying
that the Blacks and the Latins have no rights to vote.
Mr. Schera: Well, I mean, what are you going to do with the White seat? Just say, let's forget
about it.
Commissioner Plummer: That's blatantly unfair, sir.
Mr. Schera: No, no, sir. Look, here. In other words, are we going to have White representation
in America, where I was born? I served in the military, in the marine corps to fight the Japanese
and I want to... right here in my hometown I have to fight for a voting seat for White people,
which we may get? I think it is utterly atrocious. You should make it mandatory where there
shall be White seat even though it's composed of partly Hispanic people and partly Black
people. I am pretty sure they would concede as a White fellah to give me my little
representation on one voting district. I have no animosity against anybody, I am totally
American.
Mayor Carollo: All right. Thank you.
Mr. Schera: Thank you, I appreciate it.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you, very much for your say and enlightening us.
Dr. Lichtman: Mr. Mayor?
24 July 3, 1997
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Mayor Carollo: Yes, sir.
Dr. Lichtman: This is professor Lichtman.
Mayor Carollo: Yes, Professor.
Dr. Lichtman: I think it is important at this point, that I again emphasize, and I can only of
course speak to the plans drawn by the consultants, not any other plan. That no plan that we
drew, none of it, God, we must have gone over 15 by now, no plan that we drew was drawn on
the basis of race to provide any racial group a given seat. The plans we drew were based upon
neighborhoods, socioeconomic, considerations of incumbency. The coastal district, the so called
district that we drew was based upon commonalities and preserving communities and throughout
the terms we have used when... Because it is important, ultimately, to look at different groups is,
opportunities for groups of voters to elect candidates of choice. We are always talking about the
voters, not about the candidates so any group of voters could choose within any district within
the City of Miami to elect a candidate of any race or any ethnic background. No seat that we
drew was gerrymandering on the basis of race. We did not look at race in drawing these districts
and certainly no seat should ever be labeled an Anglo seat or a Black seat or a Hispanic seat.
There are districts that do provide opportunities for those voters to elect candidates of their
choice but those candidates could be or any race. This is very important because of we strictly
followed the Supreme Court Guidelines and can so testify that you should not draw districts
predominantly on the basis of race. And, that's very important because this County does not
want to become... this City does not want to become embroiled and get in a lawsuit of yet more
cost which can, you know, range in the hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars. We firmly
drew these plans not predominantly on the basis of race. We did not draw any plans to create a
seat for a Commissioner, any particular race.
Commissioner Plummer: Tell me, doctor, and let me use five -three. Where do you draw the
commonality between Brickell Avenue and Wynwood?
Dr. Lichtman: The Brickell Avenue change of course was made to avoid pending incumbents.
Commissioner Plummer: No, sir. No, sir. Let me go even further south than that, then.
Vizcaya and Wynwood?
Dr. Lichtman: I am sorry, which area of the map are you talking about?
Commissioner Plummer: I am talking about... Well, on the map that you... that I am look at,
northeast Coconut Grove.
Dr. Lichtman: Yes, northeast Coconut Grove in that area.
Commissioner Plummer: Tell me, what is the commonality between that and Allapattah,
Wynwood? There is none.
Dr. Lichtman: Well, I... that may be so but if you are in a coastal district? In other words, you
can't simply... the multiple criteria you have to follow. One of which is absolutely required.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Dr. Lichtman: And, that is called continuity. That is, you can't draw a district that isn't
geographically contiguous. So, in order to unite the upper eastside community, which has a lot
of socioeconomic commonalities with the Grove, you have got to come up within that coastal
area, which does mean a part of Edgewater does fit into that district. In other words, you do the
25 July 3, 1997
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best you can to put communities together, but as I have stressed throughout this, there are other
criteria other than lines on the map including one person one vote and the fact that districts have
to be contiguous. You can't have geographic breaks in those districts. So, upper eastside has a
lot in common with the Groves. You are going to have to create a coastal district which runs
through the Edgewater area. Not every, single community within the City is going to be
perfectly represented within any given map and certainly, you know, we have done the hest we
can to respond to what the public has said. But, inevitably a coastal district has to run through a
Wynwood Edgewater simply because of the requirement of continuity.
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, just a point of clarification. Since we all know that if we
don't have a City, we don't have districts, I expressed the concern about the placement of the
questions on the ballot. And, I am told by the City Clerk that David Leahy was watching the
meeting and he called and told the City Clerk that if we want the question of the Abolition of
Miami will be first on a separate page than the question of the district and Executive Mayor.
And, I think it's important to stress the fact that we need the question of Miami first. That's the
first question that the voters of Miami should see when they go to the polls and then go on with
the other issues. So, I think that Mr. Leahy has agreed to have the abolition question first, on the
ballot and on a separate page so that would be the first page, the first thing that the people will
see when they go to the polls.
Mayor Carollo: OK. Reverend Phillips, you have two minutes, sir.
Reverend James Phillips: Yes. Thank you, very much. Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, staff, I
would like to commend you on a very difficult job that you have been given here, a very difficult
task. I would like to also commend the community for your continuity in coming out and being
a part of this process. We have been here on several days and we really do believe that the
seven -one (b) plan is the plan that is going to be a process in healing in this City. It's also going
to allow greater, a greater voice in communities as well. And, I think that's one of the reasons
why a larger district is important, in my opinion. It keeps communities together, it gives
communities an opportunity to elect people from their community to take care of the things in
their communities that they feel are important to them. So, I am here to support the seven -one
(b) plan and again, to commend you all on a very difficult job, a very difficult task that you have
had to endure here in the past few weeks. Thank you.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Mr. Gonzalez.
a
Mr. Manuel Gonzalez-Goenaga: Yes. Good morning, my name is Manuel Gonzalez-Goenaga,
2469 Southwest 14th Street. I am going to give you a salammoniac solution to this problem.
The 34 square miles of the City of Miami with so many Hispanics, with so many African -
Americans, and so many White Americans that they wanted to be salomonic in the coastal
district. Well, if they live in the coastal district with so much sunshine, they are not white
anymore. My solution will be for the efficiency of 34 square miles, one district, one person
sitting there because Hispanics, Blacks and the Latinized American whites still living in Miami
until they leave town, we need a strong government. We need like a dictator but a benevolent
dictator. Thank you, very much.
[APPLAUSE]
Reverend Henry Nevin: My name is Henry Nevin and I am the pastor of St. John's Baptist
Church, 1328 Northwest Third Avenue. Mr. Mayor and to the Commissioners, we want to say
thank you for a job well done. I have a lot of things to say and two minutes is not enough for me
to say it. But, I would like you to know that what I have been hearing over the past weeks,
26 July 3, 1997
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didn't sound like fairness to me because we are the ones who started this thing because we did
not have any representation. And, to you, Mayor Carollo, I want to give you a personal thanks
for seeking and for working with us in the Black community for... to coming up to this point. I
want to thank you because you have been very nice working with us, very nice. I want to thank
Mr. Gort for his job with us because we can always call on you and him. Other Commissioners
we have invited to come to our plight in Overtown and we don't see them. And, that's to tell us
that we do not have any representation there. The key thing is that we need representation. We
need representation. I have one example that, if I had time I would like to just share it with you?
A few years ago, Commissioner Plummer knows about this. Is that they were, the boys were
throwing tires on I-95, eight o'clock in the morning. It doesn't look like a big thing, just one tire
being thrown on I-95, at eight o'clock in the morning. But, it's a big thing. But, Miller Dawkins
who was our representative and the Commissioner came to Overtown. Reverend White was not
there as yet but there was another preacher there named Reverend Hammon (phonetic) and
Reverend Rudolph (phonetic) and Father Barry and myself. We didn't know who were throwing
tires on I-95. Personally, if we did know we would call the police. What they... Miller
Dawkins, Commissioner Plummer and Mayor Suarez were very active in that, they came to us.
And, we went to the boys and we talked to them. And, the next morning there was no tire on I-
95. We had a representative on this Commission to come to us because they know what we are
going through. There is a saying that no one... the one who feels it, knows it. And we need the
representation. I am talking specifically for Overtown, Liberty City. Without a representative,
we have no way out. We believe in the Lord, but we do believe that we need a representative
here on the... in the Commissioners.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Reverend Nevins.
Reverend Nevins: I do recommend the seven -one plan. Thank you, very much.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: You know, that the time you are talking about Reverend, you had
more and better than representation here. I won't speak to the individual name but you had a
Black City Manager. That was very important.
Reverend Nevins: Thank you. And, I thank you, Mr. Plummer because you are always there for
US.
Mayor Carollo: Frankie.
Ms. Frankie S. Rolle: My name is Frankie Shannon Rolle, I reside at 3430 William Avenue.
And, I'll start out by saying my mama said "it's an ill wind that never change." And, we are
living in a change. I...
Commissioner Plummer: That's not what your mama said. Your mama said "it's an ill wind
that blows no good."
Ms. Rolle: That's what your mama said.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, that's all right. So, be it. Your mama.
Ms. Rolle: Thank you. I am happy that I was a member of the Blue Ribbon Committee and I
would like to take this time to thank all of the members of that committee. I support the seven
member district. I won't give you the reasons because I have heard all kind of reasons coming
from various speakers. But, I have a problem with, do we listen? Because I have heard the same
thing over in every meeting that I have been in that I could become the consultants. Because, I
27 July 3, 1997
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remember almost everything that they have said. And, I have a problem with why go to the
doctor and let the doctor diagnose your case and then you go back home and perform the
operation. I don't understand that. Whatever decision is made today, hopefully all of us in this
room will go out and push for the positives for this community. And, I haven't heard that. I
heard some little nick and nag (phonetic) "well, if I don't get my way, then it won't be." And,
that's not the way I think and again, I am in favor of the seven member district. We never heard
of having two Commissioners before and if that's possible, I definitely would like to see that
happen.
i
Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Frankie. Ma'am.
Dr. Michealane Sims: I am Michealane Sims, senior pastor of Believers Life Ministries,
president of the School of Ministry which is the Liberty City branch of Jacksonville Theological
Seminary.
Mayor Carollo: Can I ask you, one major favor, if I may, and I am sorry to interrupt?
Dr. Sims: Yes.
Mayor Carollo: If I can give the courtesy to a former Commissioner that's here, Mrs. Range, if
she can come up and speak briefly? We have always done that for our Commissioners, in the
past.
Dr. Sims: Most definitely. Would you like for her to speak now?
Mayor Carollo: If you don't mind, I really would appreciate it.
Dr. Sims: I don't mind at all. It's an...
Mayor Carollo: Thank you, very much. Mrs. Range, why don't you come up here? Thank you.
Ms. Athalie Range: I certainly thank you very much, Mayor Carollo but I would just as soon as
waited my turn.
Mayor Carollo: I know you would. But...
Dr. Sims: That's all right.
Ms. Range: Thank you. Thank you, very much. My name is Athalie Range and I reside at 5727
Northwest 17th Avenue. I am certain that they are all grateful for all of the work which has been
done for these past several weeks or months. But, let me say this to you, gentlemen and ladies of
the Commission. I feel that we should face the fact. We know regardless to what happens, we
know where the power is. We know where the majority is going to be on this Commission and
we know where the minority is going to be and I sincerely feel that we should at least give the
majority... the minority of this community an opportunity to be seated on this City Commission
with two seats. I feel that we deserve that. I feel that through the years we have come up the
rough side of the mountain and, gentlemen, I am certain, that two seats on this Commission,
unfortunately, is not really going to make the difference. Because, if we look deep in our hearts
we know regardless to what is said, whether it is Black, White or Hispanic, we have a history of
voting in blocks. This Commission votes in a block and two votes is really not going to make
the difference but, what can happen, you are doing this or this City is doing what it's doing in
districting as a matter of appeasement. We don't always like to face the truth, but we know it's
true. We are doing it as a matter of appeasement and I see no reason why we should sit here and
fight this battle attempting to minimize the power of one of the ethnic groups who have seen this
28 July 3, 1997
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City grow through the years. I feel we deserve the two seats and I support seven (b) whatever
that is, the latest one. Seven -one. I support that because I feel that that is one of the ways that
we can keep this community moving on an upward trend. Thank you.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Mrs. Range.
[APPLAUSE]
Mayor Carollo: OK. No, no. Go ahead, Ms. Sims, you have your full two minutes.
Dr. Sims: I need only 30 seconds. I am here to say that I do highly recommend you all for the
tremendous responsibility that you have to the community and I urge that you will give us your
full support in recommending or voting for plan, redistricting plan seven -one (b).
Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Peggy.
Ms. Peggy Demon: Peggy Demon, member of the Blue Ribbon Committee, 25 West Flagler
Street. I am having passed out a brief summation. I eluded to yesterday, the other day when I
spoke to you but, I think sometimes it's good for us to really take a good, close look at what we
are doing. And what I simply did here, was look at the total population and then what is the
percentage each group has and that's shown at the top. Then, we just simply looked at the
different scenarios, plus the Mayor and figured out how power will be allocated. When you look
at this, you will see if you have four plus the Mayor, the Hispanics will have three plus the
Mayor, that's 80 percent of the power. When you look at this deviation figure, this is the
deviation from whatever your number was allocated at the top. What you would like to see in
parity is zero. That is, Hispanics would have 62 percent of the... point five percent of the power,
Blacks would have 24.6 and then Whites would have 12.2. As you look at this analysis you will
see that with four plus the Mayor, Hispanics have 17.5 percentage points above what their rate is
in the population. Blacks are minus 4.6 and Whites with zero will be minus 12.2. The biggest
deviation is in the five plus the Mayor scenario, where the Hispanics would have four plus the
Mayor, which is 83 percent of the political power or 20.8 percent above the 62.5 percent that
they represent in the population. So, of all of the plans, that is the most, not fair in terms of what
exits with the population. As you move on down you get, you see the numbers approach zero
more closely. But, when you get to seven you will notice that they are almost all at zero. The
Hispanics actually get 62.5 percent of the political power which is the exact number that they
have in the population. Blacks, I put these here, it's not one usually when you get below point
five, you just drop it on rounding off, but I put it here so you could see how close to five it would
be. But, if you were to round it off, it would be zero. Same thing for the Whites. So, this kind
of, you know, for whatever in terms of the stats. But, what I want to talk to you about is where
you are now. You are at a critical point, not only in the history of the City, but in the history of
the world. The world is into a global economy. It's no longer some fantasy that educators and
business people talk about. It's here, it's right here in front of us. In order to take advantage of
this global economy everybody is into diversity. They want to diversify, the Fortune 500
companies, the top colleges and universities, simply because they are trying to get the
marketplace, they are trying to reach the markets. You are competing with every City, not only
in the United States, but in the world. There are going to be times when you are going to need a
White Commissioner. There are going to be times when you are going to need a Black
Commissioner, and you are going to want to have them because they are going to allow you to
tap into some markets, bring some jobs back to this place, get us in the international trade in a
big, big way. If you view Miami as a little pie City, then you want to have all the power to
yourself. If you see it as little, you want to make sure nobody else gets it but you. But, if you see
it as a big pie City, then everybody can share. Everybody can have an opportunity. I think you
want to send a signal to everybody in this country to say to all ethnic groups, wherever you are in
the world, we want you here in Miami. We work and live together as a people. We work and
29 July 3, 1997
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live and we can work with you and your company and your employees and take your goods and
services and you can take ours. We want to do all of that. We want you to feel comfortable
when you come to Miami. We want you to come and visit us and have a good time, and we
want to make you have a good time. Not only have we got to send signals, but we have got to
prepare our people so they can take advantage. Beyond all these pleas you have heard from the
Black community, and the quest for more power than you rightly have a ruling for, the structure
you put in place today, if the City survives, would take us into the new millennium, the year
2000. As a leader, you have got to look inward at your people and us and the Whites. And, you
have got to turn around and look at the world and make a decision. I know it's difficult. But, the
highest level that you can reach, we want you to get there today and to transcend all of this petty
politics. Make your decision. God Bless you.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Peggy. Annette.
Ms. Annette Eisenberg: That's a hard act to follow. Annette Eisenberg, 1180 Northeast 86th
Street. You are looking at the true minority and the true person that will be disenfranchised.
But, that doesn't bother me because I know that I can work with, whether it's a Black
Commissioner or a Hispanic Commissioner or an Anglo Commissioner. I have only one real
concern here today. And, that's the survival of the City of Miami. And, you Commissioners are
going to be charged with making a decision that will retain the City of Miami, that the number
one job. I feel very strongly that everybody should be represented and I think I demonstrated
that in the last election. I just ask you to... not to do anything financially or socially that's going
to jeopardize the survival of the City of Miami, That's number one.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Annette.
Mr. Clarence Williams: Morning Commissioners. I would just like to say that I... My name is
Clarence Williams and I am in favor of the seven one plan. I think that what it does, it's going to
provide better representation for the citizenry of the City of Miami. For the simple reason that,
each Commissioner is accountable for less people, so I expect them to do a better job. I believe
that the... especially blighted areas in the City of Miami, will become more... less of an eye sore
and more of an enhancement to the City because it will have its own Commissioners taking care
of its own business. I won't take up too much of your time, but I really think that this
Commission, this gathering of people, if we are able to save the City of Miami should leave this
place with a consensus that there needs to be a change and that change needs to be the seven one
plan. Thank you.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Tucker.
Mr. Tucker Gibbs: My name is Tucker Gibbs. I live at 2531 Swanson Avenue in Coconut
Grove. And, I am not going to repeat what everybody said here. I want to commend you all and
the Blue Ribbon panel for all the work you have done and how you have struggled over all these
plans and tried to rework them. And, I want to also commend Peggy Demon because I think
what she has said is going to be one of the most important things that need to be said to this
Commission and to the people of the City of Miami. And, it's going to be your job as
Commissioners to go out there with the people here and sell this to the citizens of Miami. Every
single one of you, whether it's a five member plan or a seven member plan. I am supporting a
seven member plan because I think it's fundamentally fair. Peggy Demon hit the nail on the
head. It is the one that most accurately represents the demographics of the City of Miami. And,
remember, I believe this plan whether it's voted on by the public... No matter what happens
when it is voted on by the public must still be approved by the court to settle the PULSE (People
United to Lead the Struggle for Equality) lawsuit. And, I think the court is going to look at
whether it's fair, whether it meets those requirements demographically speaking. And, as to the
money issue, I read the article in the Herald this morning, it talked about money issues and
30 July 3, 1997
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whether it will pass. You aren't charged with that. You are charged with being fair. And, that's
the most important thing. I don't know how much having seven members is going to cost and
quite frankly, as a tax paying citizen of the City of Miami, I don't care. There are things that you
all can do as a Commission to bring those numbers down. You don't have to... I don't know
how they came with six hundred and some thousand dollars in the first year. I don't know what
is going to happen in the second year. But, the issue is, how do you get this Commission to
represent more accurately the people of the City of Miami? And, I don't think the courts are
going to look at costs or whether it's going to pass mustard by a majority of the people of the
fCity. So, please when you vote think fairness and think seven one (b). Thank you.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you.
Mr. Richard Chalman: Good morning, Commissioners. Good morning, everybody. Today I
would like choose even though my people are for the seven, there are another option which seem
to be from my point of view the perfect number, the perfect option which is the plan nine, which
I draw last night. OK.
Mayor Carollo: Is the professor available?
Commissioner Plummer: And Saturday we will be up to 11.
Mr. Charlman: OK. This plan nine...
Commissioner Plummer: And, then the next thing, we will be as bad as Metro, we will be 13.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Well, we got 13 NET (Neighborhood Enhancement Team).
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, oh.
Mr. Charlman: Well, I appreciate all these comments but, I understand that we are working hard
to get something that is fair and in term of votes. I am not in here just to say please, give us this,
you know. I am the kind of person that we get what we deserve and we need to uplift our
people, go out to our community and wake up everybody. According to my computation, I
should mention first of all, that we have an error in this computation. There is an error of 2,513
votes or number. When... it seems to me that the... it's not seem to be, there is an error in this
formula because there is no such formula. The number will put just right in, in that plan number
five, that doesn't add up. I did it manually yesterday, and I did it in my computer. That doesn't
add up, that formula, there is not that formula in there. So, Plan five, is wrong. It's ethical and
legally wrong. Plan nine will give us exactly one Commissioner for White, three for Black and
five for the Hispanics. These three, exactly is two but this error will add up one to Blacks
because that will present the Haitian community, and I put it in Allapattah. Just because I am
from Allapattah. Thank you. I have the figures in here.
Ms. Dessie Bornes: Good morning. My names is Dessie Bornes. I live at 12210 Northwest
22nd Court, Miami, 33167. As I stand here again, today as I did Tuesday, I am positioning for
fairness brother Mayor and Commissioners. Today, we are here because another plan has been
drawn, plan seven. Trusting that we won't have to come tomorrow, for plan eight. Therefore,
with the concerns of the communities of Dade County, I am still concerned with fairness,
compassionate from the Mayor and Commissioners who sit on the rostrum today. Realizing that
according to the newspaper yesterday, that perhaps you have made your minds up already. But,
nevertheless, I do petition seven one (b), today. Thank you.
Ms. Inez Wilcox: Good morning, Mr. Mayor. Again, this is Inez Wilcox, 4746 Northwest loth
Avenue. And the first thing that I would like to say is, I hope we don't make the tragic mistake
31 July 3, 1997
of abolishing the City of Miami on the ballot when it comes up because of what it has been to so
many people and what it is to so many people. The next thing, I too would like to thank those of
you who have been working very hard. I was here in the Commission chambers the day Mr.
Mayor, that you appointed Commissioner Gort over the committee and I have gotten in on some
of the meetings. But, I have gotten a little confused from some of the meetings that I have been
attending. It seems to me that someone feels that we have come down here to disenfranchise the
Cuban community. I think we came down here to ask the Commissioners and everybody to just
be fair. That's why we are here because we have, as Blacks or African -Americans, no
representation. That's why we are here, not to try to take any votes away from the Cubans. We
realize we can't do that. But, we are asking your cooperation for those of us who are African -
Americans, your consideration that we might have representation on this Commission. Now,
when I was up here the other day, I spoke and I said, you people came over because of
oppression and you found us in oppression. Don't let us get back to that. Because we are sort of
in to that for now. The other day I spoke for plan six, but you have come up with a better plan,
plan seven. Seven one. Please take this into consideration by just being fair. And knowing that
we should have representation on this Commission to speak for us because just as it has been
said, I understand we were supposed to have some representation down here, but, I don't know
about it. Please, consider plan seven one.
Reverend John White: Mr. Mayor, Reverend John White, 243 Northwest 8th Street in Greater
Bethel AME Church. Mr. Mayor and Commissioners, first of all, let me also commend each of
you for the awesome responsibility you have and the decision you have before you today. And,
the work that your Commission and all those who have put into this is a tremendous and
awesome responsibility. So, we commend you. And, I understand that the responsibility is an
awesome one. But, I think I stand here today to ask you to do the right thing. The right thing
would be for us to leave here with a unified City. The right thing for us to do today, and for you
to do today, if we are going to vote to keep the City of Miami, one way that we can assure that
the City of Miami is going to maintain its existence, that we leave here unified, that we leave
here with a consensus. And, I believe that you all have the best opportunity to demonstrate to
this world, that this community is an inclusive community. That's inclusive of all of its people.
All representation at the table, making decision for the good of this community. I stand today to
ask you and to urge you to support plan seven one (b). I think that plan, will unite this
community and we can leave here with the surety that all of this community will work, will vote
to harness that vote to make sure that Miami survives. I urge you, please sir, do the right thing.
Mr. Joaquin Pujol: Yeah, my name is Joaquin Pujol, I come this morning. I don't think I come
to speak before you. But, what I see is... make me wonder. And, I had to participate. The only
thing I ask, give a guy who is intelligent enough to you guys to do the right thing. Do the right
job. Second, different ethnic.... need representation. But, we are going to have to select the right
person for the job. That's what really count. It's not really count if it's Black, White, Spanish or
I don't like Spanish, first. I don't like that word. What we need is somebody there, do the job,
the right job, who care about everybody. Because, Mr. Regalado is in my district, it will be. But,
they represent that gentleman over there. That gentleman over there is Black. So, it means you
guys is not only for the Cubans, Anglos, or whatever they are called. Blacks, no. It's for
everybody. So, I came from the country and in my time I never see a Black section. Because, a
Black live next to my house, I can't understand it. I can swallow that. I think the Black is like
they say, we are brothers. We need to fight for this City. Please, I am asking God to give the
intelligence enough to you so you can do the right job. But, please we have to save the City.
Thank you, very much to you and to all the people here.
Mayor Carollo: Representative Meek.
Representative Kendrick Meek: Good morning, Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission. Once
again, I am here to ask you to... you hear the words fairness and doing the right thing. And, I use
32 July 3, 1997
J41
the words of leadership and being able to look at Miami as we move to the next millennium to
the year 2000. Do we want to move forth as a divided community or a united community. I am
going to tell you what's going to happen if you vote for the five one plan or any of the five
district plans. You are going to have an entire community, need it be whoever the Blue Ribbon,
whichever ethnic breakdown it was on the Blue Ribbon Committee, there was a committee. You
all asked for the committee to come back with some recommendations, they did. Once they
came back with the recommendations, well, we don't want that, we want a five district seat.
And, I must say as you look at the process and serving in public service like I do and so do you,
it's important that everyone in the community have faith in the process. And, so when we look at
the process now, we look at a process to where that number one, individuals that weren't elected,
but were selected by the Commissioners and by the Mayor and others, took time out to... away
from their families to go to public hearings and to hear from the professionals and consultants
and then, here we are again, to where that we are going to be back to five seats. I just want to
say also, as we look at, when I left here everyone felt very good about the Hernandez plan. And,
I must say that me, as an individual from Black Miami, I must say that I don't endorse that plan
because I am looking at, and I am looking at a very historic part of the Black community,
Overtown being cut in half or going all the way to the west side. That's just like me coming up
with a Meek plan, that I am going to come down from Overtown and represent a big part of
Little Havana. I mean, if we were to change the... change seats here, or change coats, I think
you can understand what I am talking about. Now, when we talk about leadership and I spoke of
that the other day, I spoke of stepping out and doing the right thing. Four of you, I worked very
hard with a couple of months ago, or three or four months ago as it relates to having
representation. And, I do commend you for having this opportunity to draw districts to have
Black representation. But, what I am saying there is some very unique problems in these areas,
especially in the Black areas, as it relates to poverty and high crime. And, to say that we don't
want to expand the Commission, we don't want to give that segment of the community another
representative, I think... and then looking at it from a finance standpoint, I think that's wrong. I
think that the right this is, is to look at it as we want to better serve all of Miami. And, if that is
having two Black representatives, an Anglo representative. And a... and four an additional
Hispanic representative in these very blight areas, then let's do that. We are saying, well what
did it cost the County to expand their offices and hire new staff? Well, what did it cost the
County to fight the lawsuit? What did it cost them? I mean, no one has that number. What did
it cost the Florida Legislature to fight the suit that they had. I hear, two million dollars
($2,000,000). No one wants to think about that. But, it's easy for us to find the back door to say
that "Oh, well, we don't want larger government." What about larger and better representation?
So, I say that you take that into consideration. Kendrick Meek will be on the front line with you
to help you save the City. I will, I will be the first person. I mean, the Mayor, we have talked.
You have talked to the Congresswoman and others. Who wants, I mean, who wants to do away
with the City of Miami? A few of us, but, let's feel... Let's try to work out something here. I
see a plan here that can work. I see a plan here that can give better representation. I mean, just
because we are set in... It's some things that I say and I do that I can go back as a leader, as a
man and say, "Well, I was wrong." "I was wrong." I mean, that's fine. It's wrong to say... I
mean it's hard to say that I was wrong and that there is something better now that I may want to
consider. There is nothing wrong with that, seriously. See, I want to make sure that the
gentleman from the Vice -Chair of the Statewide Republican Party came the other day and he
said he want the Black community to feel good about what's going on. I do, and I think he
sincerely does. But, now we have another plan. I don't know if he was here this morning, but
whatever the case may be, let's look at that plan. And, I understand that we are going to vote on
this plan right now. I don't know if your minds have been set. I know that some folks made
commitments of what plan they wanted to endorse before we left here a couple of days ago. But,
I must say we have a new plan now that everyone can leave here united and feel very good
about. So, I want to give the opportunity for the others to speak. But, I must say that when you
think about doing the right thing, you think about representation. You are thinking about those
that can work on the ground level in the community. When you think about historic
33 July 3, 1997
,u z.
communities that have been... that is Black Miami. When you think of Black Miami, you think
of Overtown. Really, you do. The majority of the people that are here from this community that
have moved out in unincorporated Dade, started in Overtown. Once again, when they were
building I-95, they split Overtown up. Once again, when they were thinking of expanding 112,
1 they were going to split up Overtown again. And then they decided that they didn't want to do
it, the State DOT (Department of Transportation), because it wasn't the right thing to do. So, I
want you to consider that today. I look forward to be here for any questions or what have you.
But, I must say that I think it's important, it's very important that we say we represent today, that
segment of the Black community. Please, go with the seven plan that we have before us. Thank
i you.
j Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Fred.
i
Mr. Fred Joseph: Good morning.
Mayor Carollo: Good morning.
Mr. Joseph: If we go to Saturday, it will be nine. It scares me. Mr. Mayor, Vice Mayor,
Commissioners. The same people that have spoken over and over and over again are in the same
areas that are really concerned about what you do here today. In the Omni area, in the Venetian
Isles, they are looking at saying if you come up with a seven or eight or nine, you are going to be
looking at more cost. You have put another tax on them with the condominium fire tax, you
have put another burden on them for the representation of their own area, they are not going to
support the City of Miami. We have to stay focused with what is going to be coming up in
September, saving the City of Miami. If you put this large burden of objects before them that
they will not be able to handle, you will lose a big, big segment. Let me go back to another item
that keeps coming up, the White, the Black, the Latin. I worked for Commissioner Meek. I
worked for Mama Range. I worked for Barbara Carey. I worked for every good seated person
that we possibly could. We didn't look at color, we didn't look at race, we didn't look at
anything in the area. All we looked at was, you give us a qualified person and that area will
support them. Today, PULSE (People United to Lead the Struggle for Equality) is suing. Next
year, WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant) will be suing and the year after that, SPANGALEE
(phonetic) will be suing. So, then we are going to have to redistrict something. You have got
five selected, I would like to see us finally come to a resolution so that the City of Miami can be
supportive of all of it. But, I think if you go over that you are going to be looking at people
saying, "We want out of here." Thank you.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Fred.
Mr. Manolo Reyes: Yes, my name is Manolo Reyes. I live at 5301 Southwest 7th Street and I
have seen the division of the districts being from an area called Flagami, I know that the
Hernandez plans to be more specific. Split Flagami and it leaves what is called Grapeland and
other areas all, you know, running from west, east to west which has created for a lot of
problems for the people that live there because I think the integrity of the plan has not been, I
mean of the neighborhoods has not been respected. And, I think that's very dangerous. That's
very dangerous because if we want to save the City, we should provide at least, a plan that would
respect the integrity of the City. I have seen different plans that have been drawn here and have
heard different arguments about different numbers. One of the arguments that I have heard
about the seven district plan is that it's going to cost more. Well, I went through your budget,
which it is based on four people, or four positions for Commissioner. So, I know that we have a
State Representative right here that serve a larger constituents, it's a larger district and they only
have two positions. So, what I am trying to say is, if we increase the number of Commissioners
and a number of districts and we would reduce the number of staff because they won't need so
much staff to serve such a small district. I think that once you sharpen your pencil you are going
34 July 3, 1997
r.:
to find out that probably you will have a saving. Also, I have heard that the initial investment for
the extra Commissioners is going to cost around one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) per
new Commissioners because you have to build new offices. I just have a question, haven't we
bought the building that is, was the old FPL (Florida Power and Light)? We paid millions of
dollars of that building and I think that the whole Commission and the Mayor, since the Mayor is
going to be an executive Mayor, should be close to the departments. I think everybody should
move there. And, we should leave this valuable land to bring some revenues for the City of
Miami. So, I will strongly recommend that you consider saving the integrity of the
neighborhoods if we want to have a City and we want to have districts. Thank you, very much.
Mayor Carollo: Representative Bush.
Representative James Bush: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Let me first say again, I want to commend
the Commissioners as well as the Mayor for at least addressing this issue. I want to take this
opportunity to thank you for appointing me to the Blue Ribbon Commission. Let me just say,
and I will be very brief because I really don't want to be redundant. I think you have heard from
a large segment of this community, some of our key leaders. I see we have in the audience
Mama Range, who pretty much has a very strong voice for a great portion of the City of Miami
who served on this Commission at one time. And, you have heard from ministers who represent
a large segment of the vote, voting population in the district. So, I really don't need to stand here
and be redundant and say the same thing over and over. I pretty much voice the sentiment,
pretty much all of the things, pretty much that have been said by citizens who live in the district,
who pay taxes in the district and who wants to be fully represented in the district. And, I heard
my good friend just spoke about the integrity of the district. When we look at this whole thing,
we talked about fairness. We talked about bringing representation across the board and when we
as a Commission was charged to come back and make some recommendations to this
Commission relative to a plans, an amounts. I think that we carried out our mission. We
presented to this Commission, amounts that we felt that encompasses all of the things that was
needed in order to give representation. We took under consideration the one vote, one person
one vote. The 1965 Voting Rights Act which protects a certain... protective class of people in
that act. We looked at neighborhoods and we looked at the socioeconomic demographics. I
think that the Commission were looking at all of those factors and not basing these maps
primarily on race. We took those factors into consideration. And, coming up with those factors
we came up with a map which was six two (b) (c) which was originally six two (b) that pretty
much showed representation across the board. Now, we had individuals come in, I think
everybody should have some input in this process. I think that if we are going to talk about race,
I think the Hispanics deserve being treated fairly in this community. I think that the African -
Americans deserve being treated fairly in this community as well as our Anglo representation.
When we look at the two five maps, five district maps, it pretty much is a map that pretty much
exclude full representation. So, I think that we are not really solving the problem when we look
at maps that really don't give the people of this City full representation. But, when you look at
the seven district map, certainly you have inclusion, you have with the seven one (b) plan you
have four Hispanics, you have two African -Americans and one White. Now, if... taking into
consideration all of the things that we needed the guidelines, we needed to follow in order to
have full representation. I have heard many arguments about the cost. Now, I am State
Representative. I represent one of the largest districts and is considered by my colleagues as the
poorest district in the State of Florida. And, 90 percent of the City of Miami is in my district.
We talk about cost. Well, my friend just said about the cost, you have now as Commissioners
four staff persons. If you narrow, if you shorten the districts you would now only need two and
you can move those other two persons to other departments. You would save according to some
investigations, some research that we conducted the other day, you would save at least about
sixty thousand dollars ($60,000). You talked about building new additional offices over here for
the new Commissioners. As my friend just said, we.have a very beautiful building, the Florida
Power and Light old building, the Southern Bell building. I was there just yesterday. We could
35 July 3, 1997
move the Mayor and the Commissioners down there and we don't have to assume that cost. So,
the cost factor is not a big factor. And, I am going to close by saying that, and I have heard
many speculations by colleagues, some other individuals from other parties came in and said
"Well, we don't need to have more members because of whatever reason." Let me just say
fairness, leadership is in your hand. You have an opportunity to say to the whole world that we
are ready now to accept Black folks, Whites as well as Hispanics and then we are going to leave
these little, these little children who sit in this audience today. We are going to send a message
to them to say to them that we are not color blind when it comes down to doing what is right.
And, Mr. Mayor, I have confidence in your leadership and certainly my good friend, Mr. Gort,
who has been working very hard and Mr. Plummer, and I have known you for many years, going
to do the right thing. We ask that you do the right thing. We have been here, we have been
waiting. We need you to make the right decision. The seven one (b) plan would be the right
thing. Any other plan would be a poison pill and it will further polarize this community and we
don't need this. We have got enough problems in the City of Miami. And, I just leave Mr.
Mayor, and I leave these Commissioners with just this term of a great man who gave his life to
bring Black folks and Hispanics and Whites and to bring our children together. Martin Luther
King said that "We are all caught up in an inescapable network of mutuality; he said, "tied in a
single garment of destiny and what affects one directly affects all indirectly." And he said "We
were made to live with each other because of the interrelated structure of reality." Cubans got to
live with Blacks, Blacks got to live with Cubans. We can represent each other and take the
schism and isms from this whole process and let's do the right thing. The seven one (b) plan is
the right plan. I think the citizens have told you that and we are looking for you all to do the
right thing. Thank you, very much.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you.
Reverend John -Raymond Lau: Good morning, Mr. Mayor and Commissioners, my name is
Father Jack Lau. John -Raymond Lau. 1698 Northwest 4th Avenue in Overtown. The
congregation that I represent is a Catholic congregation founded in 1927, the first African -
American Catholic congregation in southeast. What I have seen in the past since I have been
here in Miami, that I have heard stories how the community has been divided by highways and
by trains, and I don't think we need that anymore. I think the sense of representation and the
integrity of the community is paramount. I also think that it's important that justice be looked at
and a sense of cost, we are going to look at cost but at the same time we have to realize that
people come first. And, so I would ask you to look at that. I also, to ask and to get behind the
program and a policy and follow it through. We can't have a divided commission going up
saying that we would like this policy or we would like this policy, so vote "no." That's going to
be nothing but another... a lawsuit and a follow-up gatherings and Commission meetings. Let's
make the right decision now. Let's go upon it and then together as a community, as a City we
can save our City and also save the integrity of each of our communities. Thank you.
Mayor Carollo: Anyone else who would like to address the Commission? OK. Seeing...
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mister...
Mayor Carollo: ... no one else. Excuse me?
Rep. Bush: I just want to make one point. I am sorry.
Mayor Carollo: Go ahead.
Rep. Bush: I am supposed to have been putting this in here. I have met with some of the leaders
in the community and we are going to meet at the Joseph Caleb Center on Wednesday night at
6:00 p.m., to further discuss the future of the City of Miami. So, Wednesday at 6:00 p.m., at the
Joseph Caleb Center. All of those who live in the City of Miami, Blacks, Whites and Hispanics.
36 July 3, 1997
+
Mayor Carollo: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: We don't have any objection if the County people want to keep the
City, they can come too.
Mayor Carollo: Hearing from no one from the public that would like to address this body, the
public section of this meeting will now be closed. We are now back to the members of the
Commission.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. APPROVE FIVE MEMBER DISTRICT WITH EXECUTIVE MAYOR 00
DISCUSS DISTRICT BOUNDARIES AT LATER TIME.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, for what we heard here, we are not discussing Black
representation. We are discussing how much Black representation we need to have in the ballot
in September. Every decision that we take will of course be controversial. But I believe that
leadership was mentioned here and we need to go on. So I think that if we are ready, I am ready
to proceed with the vote for the numbers provided that the boundaries could be modified in the
near future. But that the people of Miami should know today, this morning, how many districts
will be in the ballot and the executive Mayor question also will be included in the ballot. So I
am ready to vote, Mr. Mayor, and I think that if we keep coming back, we will be bringing more
plans and more numbers and at the end of the day all the plans will give the Hispanics, the
Cuban -American population, a majority in this commission. I do not understand why we are
discussing seven or five or nine or thirteen if we all know, and Mrs. Range put it perfectly that
we know what is the majority. There is not going to be more population in Miami if we change
the number of districts. So, we need to go ahead and decide what are we going to do to tell the
people of Miami that we do make decisions, although these decisions are controversial for many
areas of the community. Reverend Nevin said that he remembered when Miller Dawkins went
and resolved a situation in Overtown and he was the representative of the Black community and
he did resolve that situation. We all try to represent all the City of Miami and I have tried, I have
gone many places and this City and believe me I know every street of the City of Miami. I have
tried. Not only I have tried, not only with words but with deeds because I did work for
maintaining a Black seat in this community and that, and that created for me some sense of
hostility in my own community. So, I cannot, I cannot be accused of not wanting Black
representation in this Commission. This Commission has shown the will to give Black
representation. Now, how much Black representation? Well, that is the question. I am not
afraid of taking the responsibility, so Mr. Mayor, if you decide when we should vote, I am ready
to make a motion on a number of the districts to be placed on the ballot on the City of Miami.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. I would ask that before we entertain any motions that each member of
the Commission has an opportunity to express themselves.
Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, the reason we asked for the seven to come in today, is that
every one of the plans that we looked at, districts, neighborhoods are going to be divided. And, I
think the main worry that we have had is whether it would save the City of Miami. And, I think
that if we can come up with the seven plan where we can show that the budget could be very
close to what we have right now, because I know with the small districts, you need less staff to
work with. I think if we can show that and that we can show that we have representation we can
pass that. I think that's important that the budget will show. As a responsibility going through
the whole process that we went through to the public hearings, I feel that I need to show support
37 July 3, 1997
for seven at this moment. And, I think it's important. I think it shows representation...
[APPLAUSE] I think it shows representation to maintain most of the neighborhoods within the
districts and people ought to realize this is a decision we have to make. Whatever we make, be it
seven, five, the policy is going to be the same, the percentage is going to be the same. So, I
don't see any difference in it. That's the way I feel about this one. [APPLAUSE] By the way,
the one thing I would like to state is, I don't care what districts we get elected from, I think this
Commission here, everyone of us Commissioners has shown that they represent the whole City
of Miami because I know both of my colleagues to the right, they have worked very hard in
Overtown, they have worked very hard in Liberty City and Model City. And, J.L. Plummer has
done it for a long time and so have all of us. I feel even if we get elected by districts, we have to
represent the whole City of Miami. We cannot be parochial be it five or be it seven, we cannot
afford to be parochial. I think we have to worry about the whole City of Miami. I think that's
important, whatever decision we take here today. And, like my colleagues are stating, it's who
we elect which is important.
Commissioner Plummer: Absolutely.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Commissioner Hernandez.
Commissioner Hernandez: Yes. I have made my arguments in the past, the last two meetings as
you have heard. And, I definitely have no doubt in how I have acted as a Commissioner in the
eight months that I have been here. I have basically divided my time in thirds. One-third to the
Hispanics, one-third to the African -American and one-third to the Anglo-Saxon community.
Whenever they have knocked on my door, whenever they have called me, I have been there. I
have gone out to all three communities. I have walked, I have seen the problems and I have tried
to solve every problem that has been brought before me by every single member of this
community. The arguments that I have against plan seven one, seven one (b) are the same
arguments that I have against six two (c). I have stated them on the record. They disenfranchise
a certain ethnic group. They continue to break the integrity of different communities, different
neighborhoods. And, basically my whole argument in using the one man, one vote theory,
looking at census track figures, looking on how they have broken up the City of Miami, leaving
economics aside. My whole argument continues on the basis that we cannot disenfranchise one
group for the benefit of another group, whether it's to the African -American or to the Hispanic -
American or to the Anglo. I have made my points clear, I can't be any clearer. I have heard the
comments of the people, I have heard the comments of our representatives, of our County
Commissioners. And, I feel what is best in breaking down the City of Miami is what I presented
to this Commission and to the City of Miami: And, I continue to stand firm in favor of my plan
for the City of Miami.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let's get it on the record. First and foremost I think that each
and everyone of us here should make a pledge whichever plan is the final plan will support.
And, I say that simply because of the Black representation regardless of which plan we accept.
When walk and hopefully succeed once again, there will be Black representation on this
Commission as there was for 31 years in the 27 years that I have served, they served well. I
don't know why we need to make any major changes. I support the five member plan as I said
the other day. And simply because it does give us the representation. As an Anglo, I can argue
that the Anglos as a minority, are entitled to two, as the same as the Black and I am not making
that argument. I think the main argument is who do we elect. To me, that is most important than
any other thing that says we care. I am in favor of the five with the executive Mayor and I think
that we can all go away that everybody will have representation. There is no question in my
mind, if the demographics of this community change the only place that they are going to change
is going to be on the Hispanic side. And, as such, would give them in the future more
representation which they really don't need. If it's a four two, they are still in the majority. If
it's a three one, they are still in the majority. And, it's going to continue. I mean, I am not with
38 July 3, 1997
a crystal ball, but I would almost venture to say as a betting... a non -betting man, that the Mayor
of this community is going to be a Hispanic, which gives an additional seat or an additional
power, even though the Mayor doesn't vote under this scenario with the Commission. My basis
is, I am in favor of the five member plan with an executive Mayor.
Mayor Carollo: Back in November, after we had an election and for the first time in 31 years
there was no Black African -American representation in this Commission, we met soon after in
this Commission, took a unanimous vote on principle that we endorse Single Member Districts.
At the time, there were discussions with different members of the community, obviously there
was a lawsuit that was filed. And the will that was expressed to us, we understood. But at the
same time we also understood that we had to follow a certain process like we have followed to
make sure that whatever the final decision that would be made would be made following the
guidelines that the federal courts have shown are the binding, legal guidelines that we are to
follow. We cannot go out and have made districts strictly on ethnicity or on race or on religion.
There was a series of guidelines that we had to follow which I believe that no one can say that in
all the different processes that we have followed since then that they have not been followed. So
in that instance we have followed the intent of the law. The law as it is in Miami, in Seattle, in
Boston, in San Diego, all four corners of our country. At the time some felt that the City
Commission was trying to stall any sort of election this September on districting. In fact, there
were many allegations that were thrown out that said that in essence, we would never have an
election on districts this September, that it won't happen. I committed myself in placing a
districting plan this September. And, I think within a very short time we will see that that
districting plan will be in place September the 4th for the voters' approval. I never got into how
many districts we would have or for that matter, I don't know if any member of this Commission
ever did. We were committed on districts and districts that would assure representation from all
segments of Miami as the law describes that we should go about the process. There are no easy
solutions in going about it. Frankly, the several plans that we have seen are fair. However, some
are fairer than others. And, that might be the... really the main issue that we are left with. Which
of the plans, different individuals, different groups want? Which are the plans, not only that will
be fair but at the same time, we have to be realistical. Anything that is approved here today, if it
does not have the full backing of the five member Commission that's here, and all five members
of this Commission are not committed into going out and speaking in favor, fully in favor of, it's
not going to pass. If we end up here with a three two vote, a four one vote. That immediately
cuts the opportunity, the chances of getting any plan approved by the voters. You know, it hurts
me to have gone through the process that we have in the last ten and a half months I have been
Mayor, not only the monumental task that we have had to deal with and straighten out the City's
finances and all the other problems that we inherited and encountered. But, at the same time, to
go through such a long process and still at the end looking at the possibility that whichever
districting plan we place on the ballot there are going to be segments of our community,
substantial segments of our community, that might not be happy with the plan. At the same
time, seeing that there still is, and I, maybe as you get older sometimes you try to be more
idealistical, certainly as not as hot headed when you are younger. But I for the life of me, cannot
understand why we still have such differences in our community. You know, we were all made
by the same God, we are all part of the same human race but, nevertheless, there is still all of
distrust, a lot of hate. A lot of the things that a lot of us were taught from a very young age that
is wrong. That is not what God wants us to do. You know, when some of us have taken very
difficult positions, but we took them because we felt as many of you have used the expression
here today, it's was the right thing, and then were attacked constantly in some of our
neighborhoods within the City for those positions. Then, were attacked in some of the other
neighborhoods for an opposite thing, you know it almost a no -win situation. But, when I ran for
Mayor, I ran to be a Mayor of all Miami, not to be a Hispanic Mayor, a Cuban -American Mayor,
a Mayor to African -Americans, a Mayor just to Anglos. I ran to be a Mayor for all of Miami.
And that's what I tried to have done, to be as representative of every single group within our
City as I possibly could be. And, within the smaller groups of the larger groups because within
39 July 3, 1997
the African -American community, we have smaller segments. You have Haitian -Americans,
you have Bahamian -Americans, Jamaican -Americans, and other groups within that community
including Hispanic African -Americans. Within the Hispanic community, you have a very wide
range. Even within our so-called Anglo community that we call here. But, I have tried to be that
Mayor for everyone. I have tried to be as fair as I possibly could be to every single group. We
have to come up with a decision here today. The last date to place something on the ballot is
Saturday. Tomorrow is the 4th of July. In fact, as some members of this Commission have
stated, they are going to be out of town on Saturday. So, today is the day. Today, is the day to
approve a plan. Obviously, three members of this Commission have clearly expressed
themselves for a five district plan. I myself can live with either a seven or five. And, you know,
people can attack me all they want from either side or from both sides of the spectrum. But, I
could live with either one of them. I think they are fair. Obviously, there are some pluses and
some negatives in looking at both plans. But, I think what we have to keep in mind is, that
whatever is approved here, it's fine to feel good today and to feel good for the next two months
before the election comes. You know, if whatever one side or another has approved today that
they want, that particular side might feel good, they got what they want. But you know, that
feeling of feeling good is going to come down right away if whatever is passed today does not
have voter approval September the 4th. And I will be as clear as I can that unless five members
of this Commission up here, go out and speak as one voice, for one plan, it's not going to pass.
If we are going to be going out sniping at one another, if we are going to he having different
segments over Miami and community, sniping at one another, it's not going to happen. Having
said that, unless any other members of the Commission would like to make any additional
statements, I will open up the floor for motions.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, like I said, I think it will be, and you have said that too,
unfair to the people here, to the people that have come for so many days for so many mornings to
leave here and not resolve the questions. I am ready to make a motion to place on the ballot on
September 4th a five district plan with an executive Mayor and later we will discuss the
boundaries.
Commissioner Hernandez: Mr. Mayor, regardless of what plan we choose, I think we should be
a little bit... It's time to make a decision on whether it's my plan or five three, which the experts
came up with. I don't see the reason to postpone honestly, a decision on which plan we choose,
whether it's five three, or my plan or another five plan. But, I think it's...
Mayor Carollo: What I would suggest Commissioner is, that once we vote upon this motion, if it
passes, then we deal with that following question that...
Commissioner Hernandez: Well, I second the motion for a five district plan.
Mayor Carollo: OI{, the motion is for a five district plan with an executive Mayor. There is a
motion, there is a second. Any further discussion by members of the Commission?
Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, as you stated before, the majority seems to be there. And, I
think that you are right, we have to show a united front. We all have to be... whatever is
accepted by a majority we will have to work for it. Not only for the districts but we have got to
save the City of Miami. It's for those reasons, I will be voting in favor of this motion so that we
can show unity. But, I would also like to explain to the public, because they are not here at this
time. This Commission, some people had some doubt that we weren't going to have any
districts, that we are not going to have any representation. This Commission could have taken
the route of fighting the suit, like Miami Beach did, and Miami Beach won. And, I think we
could have won it. But, we made a commitment when Commissioner Hernandez was elected
that we will have districts and we are complying with that commitment. We are going to have
districts.
40 July 3, 1997
IN
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Plummer, any further statements?
Commissioner Plummer: I have no further comments, sir. I have made my comments.
Mayor Carollo: OK. Can you call the roll, please?
The following motion was introduced by Vice Mayor Regaiado, who moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 97-445
A MOTION INSTRUCTING THE CITY ATTORNEY TO DRAFT A CHARTER
AMENDMENT TO BE PLACED ON THE BALLOT FOR THE SEPTEMBER 4, 1997
CITY OF MIAMI SPECIAL ELECTION TO PROVIDE FOR AN EXECUTIVE
MAYOR AND FIVE COMMISSIONERS FROM FIVE DISTRICTS; FURTHER
STATING THAT THE COMMISSION WILL DETERMINE THE BOUNDARIES
FOR SUCH FIVE DISTRICTS AT A LATER TIME.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Hernandez, the motion was passed and adopted
by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Wifredo Gort
Commissioner Humberto Hernandez
Vice Mayor Tomas Regaiado
Mayor Joe Carollo
NAYS: None.
ABSENT: None.
COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL:
Mayor Carollo: While voting, I would like to say that it would be very easy for me to take the
route of saying, well, there is four votes "yes" and I vote "no." Yes, a seven district plan as I
have said is something that I could live with and I think it's also fair. But, I think by doing that I
would not be doing the right thing because I would be only helping to defeat any kind of
representation that we would have from segments of our community that right now do not have
any up here. Therefore, having said that and the statements that I have made, I vote "yes."
Vice Mayor Regaiado: Are we coming back for the executive Mayor?
COMMENTS MADE AFTER ROLL CALL:
Mayor Carollo: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Hernandez?
Commissioner Hernandez: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: ... since we are coming back tonight at six o'clock, I would ask that we
designate tonight at six. I have not really had the chance to look at five three, and I would Iike to
look at that and we can make that decision this evening, if it's...
41 July 3, 1997
Commissioner Hernandez: I would like to see that in the afternoon, if we can decide on a plan,
on a five district plan...
Mayor Carollo: Well...
Commissioner Hernandez: ... in the afternoon when we come back.
Mayor Carollo: What we will be then discussing this afternoon will be one, the final language
that we will need in making the Charter changes in the resolution plus the actual wording that
will be going in the ballot and two, discussing whether we are going to have a final approval on
the boundaries of the five district plan.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, if...?
Mayor Carollo: Anything else that members of the Commission feel that we need to get into the
six p.m. meeting?
Commissioner Hernandez; I think it's important. also, Mr. Mayor, once we decide what districts,
what boundaries we are going to choose in the afternoon that having read at least the preliminary
ballot language that was drafted by the Law Department that we put in that language that it is
pursuant to the district plan approved by this Commission. So, there is no question that after the
fact it could be changed, but it's pursuant to what we have approved up here.
Mayor Carollo: I think that it's fair to say that.
Commissioner Hernandez: OK.
Mr. A. Quinn Jones, III, Esq. (City Attorney): I am sorry, I cannot... Commissioner can...?
Commissioner Hernandez: I was saying that when I read your ballot language, the preliminary
ballot language that you wrote up, I think that we have to add to that language that it is... we are
approving the district plan with boundaries pursuant to what we have decided here.
Mr. Jones: OK. I got you.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, I would, maybe one of the experts can provide it. To have
the exact streets of the different boundaries because I can't find it, I cannot read it here in the
maps, the copies are really...
Mayor Carollo: The only...
Vice Mayor Regalado: I'm old you know.
Commissioner Plummer: My boundaries are the water, so I don't have to worry about that.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, the only thing that... You better learn how to swim, Plummer.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, we got the fish who got to come home to roost.
Mayor Carollo: That's what I mean. The only advantage that I think we might have to be
maybe waiting just a little bit longer to decide the actual final boundaries that we would choose
would be in getting from the Elections Department, the actual voting percentages on each of the
districts in the different plans that we have. Because, right now you are voting upon rough
numbers of population of 18 or over. So, you don't have the exact amount of voters in the area.
But...
42 July 3, 1997
Commissioner Plummer: But, the way I see it...
Vice Mayor Regalado: Not only that, Mr. Mayor, J.L. If we don't have to decide tonight on the
boundaries we can check with the Elections Department to see many precincts, many polling
places that could and would not be split. So...
Commissioner Plummer: Hey, my mind is not going to change. So, let's don't play games with
me or with others. It's my understanding that we draw the boundaries and Leahy will say where
the precincts go.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: So, it's not a matter of us...
Vice Mayor Regalado: No, no. I am...
Commissioner Plummer: ... trying to judge out the precincts...
Vice Mayor Regalado: No, no. He will give us information, I am saying.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, OK. You know, it's basically if the precincts...
Mayor Carollo: Well, you are right on that.
Commissioner Plummer: It's precincts within the boundary of the...
Commissioner Gort: He said it was easy to do.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. The only advantage would be that the one that I described that we will
then know for sure the percentage of voters in each of these districts versus just having the
percentage of the population over 18 from each district. But, again that's something we can
discuss then and decide upon this afternoon.
Commissioner Hernandez: I agree with you. And, I think what is important is that we walk
away today with a final decision on what boundaries we have and that way we could... we know
where we are at and what we have to do in the future.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, are we...? Can I make a request, not to do with the
districts? It's not asking for a vote. That consideration be given Mr. City Manager. Mr. City
Manager, that an ordinance be drawn for the consideration of this Commission for the next
Commission meeting to change the meeting dates to Tuesday the first, I am sorry, the second and
fourth Tuesday of the month, if anybody has no objection?
Mayor Carollo: I have no problem in doing that.
Commissioner Plummer: Just for consideration.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, I have problem in doing that.
Commissioner Plummer: I ask that that be put on the next agenda, please. And if, by the way,
just for your information, it's just the opposite of Metro which meets the first and third.
43 July 3, 1997
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Hearing no further discussion, this Commission will reconvene at six
p.m.
THEREUPON THE CITY COMMISSION WENT INTO RECESS AT 10:11 A.M. AND
RECONVENED AT 6:42 P.M., WITH ALL MEMBERS OF THE CITY COMMISSION
FOUND TO BE PRESENT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. INSTRUCT CITY MANAGER TO REVIEW AND PREPARE REPORT TO
CITY COMMISSION ON CITY'S POSITION REGARDING MARTIN
LUTHER KING'S PROJECT PLAN.
Commissioner Plummer: If I may, before we start? Mr. City Manager, this is the third time I am
bringing this item up. I am once again concerned about this City's loan to MLK (Martin Luther
King). In this morning's paper, the last, one last store is remaining in that store, group of stores.
There is only one tenant left. I am still asking that the management look into it and make sure
that this City is comfortable as I am concerned.
Mr. Aaron Weeks (Chief of Staff): Commissioner, I can report back...
Mayor Carollo: Very good.
Commissioner Plummer: I think the Commission would like a report back, yes.
Mayor Carollo: That's right. Again, before we begin the afternoon session of the Special
Commission meeting that we begun this morning.
Commissioner Plummer: I got it when I walked in the door.
END OF DISCUSSION -- NO ACTION TAKEN
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. BRIEF DISCUSSION REGARDING PAYMENT FOR CONFISCATED SHIPS
DOCKED AT MARITIME PARK PROPERTY.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayor Carollo: If I may ask a question of the Chairman of the Bayfront Park Trust.
Commissioner Plummer: Yes, sir.
Mayor Carollo: It is my understanding that the Maritime Park property where we have the inlet
that there are a couple of ships that have been parked there for some time...
Commissioner Plummer: That's correct, sir, by court order.
Mayor Carollo: ... that, you all are in charge of that?
Commissioner Plummer: That's correct.
44 July 3, 1997
11�{44) e
Mayor Carollo: Are we getting any money?
Commissioner Plummer: Yes, sir.
Mayor Carollo: How much are we getting? Where is it going?
Commissioner Plummer: It's been going into Bayfront Park for the maintenance fund of the
Bicentennial and FEC (Florida East Coast) track and I would have to get you an answer as to
how much we are charging. It's not as much as the port because it's dead storage. But we have
two ships there that were confiscated by the courts and asked to allow them to be there until such
time as a determination by the court. If you want the footage which we are charging, I will be
glad to get it for you.
Mayor Carollo: Well, that's fine. If it's the US (United States) government, then I know we are
getting our money.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, I don't think there is any question. No, we are getting the money
for that in advance.
Mayor Carollo: Good. All right, thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: Yes, sir. And, I'll be happy to get you the exact... how much we are
charging per foot.
Mayor Carollo: That, you know, if you have a chance. But, I just wanted to make sure we were
getting monies for that.
Commissioner Plummer: I am sure Ira is watching this and he will be calling shortly.
Mayor Carollo: Well, he's very good.
END OF DISCUSSION -- NO ACTION TAKEN
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. DIRECTION TO ADMINISTRATION FOR SOLID WASTE TO SELL
ABANDONED SHOPPING CARTS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vice Mayor Regalado: If I may, Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Carollo: Yes.
Vice Mayor Regalado: ...since we are talking about money? The administration only needs
direction from this Commission in order to change what we are doing with the shopping carts.
You see, in the past, Solid Waste was destroying carts but Dade County and Hialeah sells the
carts back to the owners. For example, Sedano's, Varadero's, Winn Dixie, Publix. And, we
found out that there were about 50 shopping carts being destroyed every week by Solid Waste
and I spoke to Aaron and he said that the only thing that we need to start the policy of selling
back the carts to these people for five dollars ($5) every time that the NETS (Neighborhood
Enhancement Teams) or the Solid Waste picks up a cart is the direction from the Commission in
45 July 3, 1997
order that we can establish the same, exact policy that Hialeah has, that Dade County has in
getting back the carts to the owners. The reason is because a new cart costs about one hundred
and twenty dollars ($120). So, the people in those markets will be very happy and willing to go
there, pick up the carts and pay the five dollars ($5) fine to get the carts back.
Commissioner Hernandez: It's a storage fee. It's the equivalent of a storage fee.
Commissioner Plummer: Tomas, I have it. My funeral home on Bird Road, no less than three a
day in my parking lot. And, that's from Walgreen's, Milano's and one other store in that thing.
They've... for some reason they go three blocks and then they just leave them right in my
parking lot.
Commissioner Gort: I want you to know that on June the 30th, we sent a memo to the Manager
requesting that he take some action on this...
Vice Mayor Regalado: Yeah, but I...
Commissioner Hernandez: I did too.
Vice Mayor Regalado: ... we did. And, we all did and we all inquired. But, I was told that we
needed just a direction from the Commission. So, if we have it Aaron, go ahead.
Mr. Aaron Weeks (Chief of Staff): We reviewed the matter. We are in the process of trying to
establish an internal procedure by which we can accommodate storing those carts at the NET
offices. But, the order has already gone out that those carts are not being destroyed any longer.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Yeah, I can give you the contact numbers for Varadero's, Sedano's,
Winn Dixie and Publix, which I have it. And, they can be stored in the Solid Waste Department
and these people would go there, pick them up, pay the fine or the storage, whatever we want to
call them and get the carts back. If we were discussing 50 a week, we can get a certain amount
of dollars every week.
Mayor Carollo: OK, we are ready to begin the evening session of the special meeting that we
begun this morning. I think we are... Mr. City Attorney, if we can begin...
Commissioner Plummer: Can I interrupt you, Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Carollo: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: We are getting ten dollars ($10) per day, per foot. They are both there
by court order. One is about ready to be moved and the second is in fact going to become
another artificial reef. All of our monies are paid in advance.
Mayor Carollo: Good. Thank you.
Commissioner Gort: How many foot of...
Commissioner Plummer: One of them is like 300 feet.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, they are long ships.
Commissioner Gort: That's six thousand dollars ($6,000).
Commissioner Plummer: We got a lot of grass to cut over there.
46 July 3, 1997
:5t ,
r
Mayor Carollo: They are long ships.
END OF DISCUSSION -- NO ACTION TAKEN
6. APPROVE WITH MODIFICATIONS PROPOSED BALLOT LANGUAGE
AND TEXT REGARDING FIVE MEMBER DISTRICTS AND EXECUTIVE
MAYOR.
Mayor Carollo: If we could begin, Mr. City Attorney, with the resolution that we have with the
changes that we would have to make on the Charter for...
Mr. A. Quinn Jones, III, Esq. (City Attorney): Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: the Executive Mayor...
Mr. Jones: OK.
Mayor Carollo: ... and the rest of the items that we need to?
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission. Let me just start initially with the ballot
question which we amended during the break and it would now read: shall the Charter be
amended to provide commencing the 1997 for a nonvoting executive Mayor elected Citywide
who will not be a member of the City Commission and five Commissioners from five districts
delineated by the Commission and authorizing; the Mayor to (1) exercise veto power subject to
Commission override, (2) appoint and remove the City Manager subject to Commission review,
(3) appoint committees and (4) deliver an annual address.
Commissioner Plummer: I have two questions.
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: And, where you say "exercise veto power subject to Commission
override," the Commission retains the same right of override as to the termination of the City
Manager, but you don't spell that out.
Mr. Jones: Commissioner...
Commissioner Plummer: You do in the body.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, but I can't...
Commissioner Plummer: But, why do you do it in one area and not in the other? Is it because of
the words?
Mr. Jones: Because of the word limitations. You know, the review process, I mean, it's not
going to change anything. The review is the same, it's not impairing any...
Commissioner Plummer: I merely ask because...
47 July 3, 1997
Mr. Jones: Yes.
j Commissioner Plummer: ... in one section it's there delineated and the other section it's the
i same wording but it's not here delineated in the ballot question. It's the only reason I asked.
Mr. Jones: OK. In so tar as the resolution which of course contains the text of the sections of
the Charter which must be amended to correspond with the new form of government... You
want me to go through the changes, Mr. Mayor, that we made from this morning, or you want to
go through the whole thing?
Mayor Carollo: I think we need to maybe go with the changes that were made.
Mr. Jones: OK. Yeah, that's...
Commissioner Plummer: I took two hours to study the other one.
Mr. Jones: OK. The first change you would note is on page three which would be sub -section
(b)•
Mayor Carollo: Page three, sub -section (b).
Commissioner Plummer: There is...
Mr. Jones: It's really not a change but it's a fill in. If you look at... that we left blank this
morning the number of the districts. As you would note there, as I understand now where it says,
if you go down it says, the first one it says "Commissioners and districts numbered" -- blank and
blank and blank -- "will be elected at the general election to be held in 1997. So, what we have
as I understand it will be districts number two and four and five that will be up for election in
1997."
Commissioner Plummer: Stop.
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: On which plan?
Mayor Carollo: Well...
Commissioner Plummer: If you go with the five three, that's wrong. If you go with Hernandez
plan, that is correct.
Mayor Carollo: I think that the numbers that the districts have don't really matter. We could
designate numbers whichever way we want to.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, that's fine. But, the way it is right now...
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: ... neither one of these have been officially adopted.
Mayor Carollo: Of course not.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
48 July 3, 1997
Mayor Carollo: The... that's what I am saying it doesn't matter in the numbers. We could
designate numbers to each district.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, all right.
Mayor Carollo: What I think is important...
Commissioner Gort: One, three, five.
Mayor Carollo: ... that we need to spell out now is that...
Commissioner Plummer: What?
Commissioner Gort: I suggest one, three, five.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: One, three, five?
Commissioner Gort: Odd numbers.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, one, three, five.
Commissioner Plummer: And, then two and four would be...? OK. That's...
Mr. Jones: Two and four and one, three, five.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, that's good.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't like it but I will accept it.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, now, the way that we are going to have to do this so that we end up with a
system that would be...
Commissioner Plummer: Odd and even (phonetic).
Mayor Carollo: ... yeah, even. Three and three is that out of the three seats from the districts
that will be up in this election, two are going to have to be for four year terms, one will be for a
two year term.
Commissioner Plummer: Correct.
Mayor Carollo: This way by the next election after this one then, it would be even in the number
of elected officials you have running every two years.
Commissioner Hernandez: For this upcoming election?
Mayor Carollo: Well, for this upcoming election out of the three seats that are up, one is going
to have to be for a two year term until we get the rotation going again.
Commissioner Hernandez: But one of the... one of the... That would include one of the new
districts?
Mayor Carollo: Exactly.
49
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July 3, 1997
t4
d.
< 1p
Commissioner Hernandez: OK.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, that will be one of the new districts.
Commissioner Hernandez: OK. Now, on this page three (b), Mr. City Attorney.
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Mayor Carollo: Beginning at the top. "Who shall be a qualified elector residing with the City at
least six months before qualifying." This is what our Charter states now. The County had three
years. This is what the County has, three years. That might be a little harder to try to defend in
Court if it's challenged. What amount of time do you think would be reasonable that we could
defend in court?
Mr. Jones: Well, I would say up to a year. I think a year would be probably the most that I
would go with.
Mayor Carollo: All right. Is that acceptable to the members of the Commission, a year?
Vice Mayor Regalado: Yes, it is.
Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah, I... Three years is definitely too harsh. One year is
acceptable.
Mayor Carollo: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: I'll accept it.
Mayor Carollo: My next question is, should we apply this also, not just to the Mayor's position
but also across the boards so that it could be unified as to the Commissioners and the Mayor, that
whoever is going to run for office has to be living within the City for a year?
Commissioner Hernandez: It should be across the board, I think...
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Hernandez: ... I mean, it might as well.
Commissioner Gort It should be, yeah. It should be...
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, absolutely.
Mayor Carollo: OF,, I agree with that.
Mr. Jones: You also want to add something to the effect that they want to maintain an actual
residence for the duration of the term, to make it clearer or...
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, we need to spell that out as clear as we can so that...
Commissioner Plummer: Why can't I be like a Metro Commissioner, live in a motor home?
Commissioner Hernandez: How... how? Isn't that a given that once you are elected and you are
living within the City limits you have to maintain yourself...
50 July 3, 1997
• :Sid
Q�Ii•�w
Mayor Carollo: We thought you were living in a motor home.
Commissioner Hernandez: ... to live in the City?
Mr. Jones: Basically the...
Mayor Carollo: Or did you move it?
Commissioner Plummer: Truthfully none of you were here. And, let me tell you where this...
he's trying to tell you to try to keep the problem down from again. We had a former Mayor, who
1 lived down on Brickell...
{ Commissioner Hernandez: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: ... who contended that his house was being repaired and during that
year that the house was supposedly being repaired, he lived in Key Biscayne.
Commissioner Hernandez: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: And, it went to court. And, I don't remember exactly the results of it.
But, I think that what he is trying to accomplish here, is to keep that from happening again. And,
I think it's a good idea.
Commissioner Hernandez: I believe he was successful in that.
Commissioner Plummer: And...
Commissioner Hernandez: Because it was temporary and it was during the time of renovation.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, it went to court and I think what he is trying to do is, avoid that
now.
Commissioner Gort: But, we are going to deal with the districts later.
Mr. Jones: We will deal with the districts.
Mayor Carollo: OK, so on (b) we will be substituting one year for the six months.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Mr. Jones: OK. And, adding the language about the true residence. Maintaining the true
residence.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, yeah. The language containing the true residence requirement.
Mr. Jones: We are going to get to that, J.L.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mr. Jones: OK. The next change is reflected on...
Commissioner Hernandez: Quinn, before we jump over to...
51 July 3, 1997
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Mr. Jones: I am sorry.
Commissioner Hernandez:... to the next section just to...
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Hernandez: I would like to, a point of clarification. When you mean "true
residence" and I know that's a very broad statement when you look what's going on around us
these days with other candidates and other elected officials. Would you have to...? Would you
have a "true residence" does that mean you have to have, for example, homestead exemption, or
"true residence" would be taken to he somebody that... you won't have to actually own a piece of
property in the City of Miami, you would let's say lease or rent an apartment, a house and live
there?
Mr. Jones: I think it's the latter. Because as you know, from law school, all of the case law, you
know, that we have had over residency versus domicile. And, of course, you know, residency is
where you have the intent to presently live. So, I think that there would have to be some criteria
to... in particular the latter, that you would lease, buy or own and live at that particular location
for the duration of the term of office.
Commissioner Hernandez: OK.
Mr. Jones: Or rent.
Commissioner Hernandez: OK.
Mayor Carollo: All right, what's next Quinn?
Commissioner Plummer: Page four, section (c).
Mr. Jones: Page four, subsection (c).
Vice Mayor Regalado: Before... Quinn, before you go into page four... So, it was established
that the seats that will be up for elections will be one, three, five?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, the odd number seats.
Mr. Jones: Odd numbers and even numbers in 1999, two and four.
Vice Mayor Regalado: And, two and four in 1999?
Mr. Jones: That's correct.
Commissioner Plummer: And, we will have to designate that on whichever plan is drawn.
Mayor Carollo: Right. Uh-huh.
Mr. Jones: And, some... Excuse me. In subsection (c) in page four, whereas if you read down it
says "... commencing with the election of Mayor, 1997. The Mayor and members of the
Commission shall be residents of the City for at least six months." Prior to qualifying, that will
change to one year as well.
52 July 3, 1997
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A.
Commissioner Gort: All those changes will take place...
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Gort: ... within six months. You are going to have to change that.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: And, true residency there also.
Mr. Jones: Yes. In addition to that, because it mentions the districts. What we did, if you read,
if you read down a little further it says "further members of the Commission shall have resided
within the district at least six months before qualifying except for the 1997 election." Since we
drafted, we have had a... I won't say a change of heart but what we had suggested, will suggest
to you, that that be changed to reflect that they would have to maintain or establish residency
within the district within three months of the election.
Unidentified Speaker: After the election.
Mr. Jones. After the election.
Commissioner Plummer: No, I don't agree with that. If they have to live within the district to
run...
Unidentified Speaker: No, they don't.
Mr. Jones: They don't.
Unidentified Speaker: They don't. Not for 1997.
Mr. Jones: Not for 1997.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, I am sorry.
Mayor Carollo: Not for 1997.
Commissioner Plummer: For '97 only.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, '97 only.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, oh, OK.
Mr. Jones: You see, because of the time constraints.
Commissioner Plummer: So, I have no problem with that.
Mr. Jones: So...
Commissioner Plummer: You have got to change that also in here about the Mayor. "... if one of
the Commissioners wanted to run for Mayor, he has to file 90 in advance of resignation."
Mr. Jones: No, we don't have to. The State law supersedes that.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, it was in this other one.
53 July 3, 1997
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Unidentified Speaker: ... the old Charter.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, it was in the old Charter. But, I am saying State law supersedes that. So, it's
no need to really get into to changing that at this point.
Commissioner Plummer: Did you withdraw it from this new one?
Mr. Jones: It's still in the... It's still there.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, why would you leave it in if State law supersedes it?
Mr. Jones: Well, I'm... You know, without having to get into, you know, making major, major,
major changes. You know, the fact of the matter is that since the State has exclusive jurisdiction
with respect to establishing election criteria, that will prevail in this regard. Walter, you want to
address that?
Commissioner Plummer: But it's in conflict.
Mr. Walter J. Foeman (City Clerk): Yeah, Quinn, I want to address that. I think... We have a
Division of Elections opinion that reflects the fact that the City of Miami doesn't have a
beginning qualifying period. We have a qualifying deadline. So, we have a division opinion
that says that you can resign to run 10 days prior to the end of the qualifying deadline. And, I
think that, that was... that address the issues.
Unidentified Speaker: That what's been governing our elections.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, and that what governs our elections.
Commissioner Plummer: So, well... But, you see, I am saying is, why do you leave something
in here that's in conflict with State Statutes that does prevail?
Mr. Jones: We can take it out.
Mr. Foeman: I think State Statutes really address the issues of the beginning and the ending
qualifying period. But, the division opinions it...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, so that I'll understand whatever we pass. Is it the fact that
someone to run for Mayor, a Commissioner would have to resign 90 days in advance or not?
Mr. Foeman: I don't think they would. I would defer this to the Attorney.
Mayor Carollo: No.
Mr. Foeman: But, the division...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I remember...
Mr. Foeman: We have a division opinion...
Commissioner Plummer: I remember a lawsuit by Rose Gordon.
Mr. Foeman: We have a Division of Elections opinion that says...
54 July 3, 1997
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Mr. Jones: Commissioner, let me suggest this to you. You have indicated that you want to have
a comprehensive Charter review, and you wanted to appoint a Charter Review Committee.
There are numerous provisions, one, you know, just like this one that need that's antiquated. I
would suggest at, you know, at that point in time, that we deal with it then.
Commissioner Gort: Let me ask a question.
Mr. Jones: If it's OK?
Commissioner Gort: My understanding presently, right now. If you remember any of the City
boards and you want to run for office, you have to resign. As soon as you qualify you have to
have a resignation letter along with it.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no.
Mr. Jones: No.
Commissioner Gort: Effective... Effective the day after the election. Once you sign it... you
bring the... You have to bring the letter.
Mr. Jones: It's a irrevocable letter.
Commissioner Gort: Irrevocable letter, effective... But, the effective date is the day after the
election.
Mr. Jones: Was that...? There is a difference between the resign to run qualifications or say
requirements in the qualifying period.
Commissioner Gort: Two different.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, they are two different sets of requirement.
Commissioner Gort: OK, but my understanding is, what we are addressing right now, is that any
one Commissioner wants to run for Mayor would have to resign 90 days before.
Mr. Jones: But, no. What I am saying to you is that, that really does not... Even though this
provision is here.
Commissioner Gort: Uh-huh.
Mr. Jones: As Walter explained to you, that because we don't have a qualifying period, the
division has said that anyone who wants to run can resign at least ten days prior to the deadline.
Is that right, Walter?
Mr. Foeman: That's right. We...
Commissioner Gort: Does it specify the date of the effectiveness of this election?
Mr. Foeman: Yeah, we have a legal opinion that does that. The effective date will be the date
that the person would assume office. He or his successor would assume it.
Commissioner Gort: OK.
55 July 3, 1997
Mr. Jones: What I am trying to do, Commissioner Plummer and Commissioner Gott, and the
rest of the Commission, is basically only deal with the provisions that we really need to deal with
and limit any possibility for challenge to say that we have gone beyond what we need to amend.
Commissioner Gott: OK.
Mayor Carollo: Are we done with this discussion?
Mr. Jones: Yeah. Let met just... A point of clarification, Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Carollo: Sure.
Mr. Jones: So, did you want to go with the three months or leave it at the six months for the
districts?
Unidentified Speaker: After...
Mr. Jones: After, after 1997?
Commissioner Hernandez: I think six months is more that enough time. I mean, three months is
more than enough time to move into a district after an election. But, you know, it's up to.., it's
my opinion.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't understand that. If you have to live as a resident within the
district for which you are seeking...
Mayor CaroIIo: This is for the first... This is for this election only.
Mr. Jones: This is for 1997.
Mayor Carollo: Only this time. Only this time.
Commissioner Plummer: Only.
Commissioner Hernandez: Nineteen 97, only.
Mayor Carollo: Only this time.
Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, I am sorry. I am misunderstanding. All right.
Mr. Jones: Is that acceptable?
Unidentified Speaker: Three months?
Mr. Jones: Three months?
Mayor Carollo: What's the will of the Commission? Three months or...?
Commissioner Hernandez: I have no problem with three months.
56 July 3, 1997
Mayor Carollo: Is three months...?
Commissioner Plummer: Acceptable tome.
Mr. Jones: OK. We'll make..
Mayor Carollo: OK. Is that defendable in court, three months versus six?
Mr. Jones: Yeah, yeah.
Mayor Carollo: That's tine. Then three months.
Mr. Jones: OK, the next modification appears at six.
Commissioner Plummer: Holdup, page five.
Mr. Jones: I am sorry. Go ahead.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't every recall there being a provision that says that if I violate
the Charter and tell a department head what to do, that I could go to jail. I remember that I you
could be removed from office, but this is calling for a fine and jail time. I think that is
preposterous.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, well that's been part of the Charter for... since it's...
Mayor Carollo: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah, yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: Remove from office, I... Look.
Mayor Carollo: And fine and...
Commissioner Plummer: And, jail time?
Mayor Carollo:... whipped.
Commissioner Hernandez: I think it's a misdemeanor.
Commissioner Plummer: I want to tell you, I think that's preposterous. Take my chair away
from me, fine. I understand that.
Mayor Carollo: Well...
Commissioner Plummer: But, if you are going to put my... in the pokey for telling...
Mr. Jones: Well, that's been there for...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I'll address that one in the Charter review.
Mr. Jones: All right.
Commissioner Plummer: It's ridiculous.
57
July 3, 1997
Mr. Jones: Page six, bottom, subsection (g). He's commencing with the election of Mayor,
1997. "A Mayor shall serve as head of the City government." The following the specific powers
and duties. One.
Commissioner Plummer: Where are you?
Mr. Jones: Page six.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Mr. Jones: Subsection (g).
i
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mayor Carollo: Subsection (g).
Mr. Jones: So, the first power would be "... the Mayor shall..."
Commissioner Plummer: That was changed.
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: That was going to be " ...the Mayor may..."
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: You want to change it differently from... what the County had then?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. "... the Mayor may." Because that's the way we understood it.
Mayor Carollo: May or shall, it's the same thing.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, well then put it...
Mayor Carollo: I mean, it's... it will do the same thing. So, I have no problem with it.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, OK.
Mr. Jones: OK. "... the Mayor maybe the presiding officer of the Commission with the authority
to designate another member of the Commission to serve as presiding officer."
Commissioner Plummer: Right.
Mr. Jones: OK, on page seven, the following page, subsection four, we added a provision for
absence or disability of the Mayor. It changes ".. during his absence or disability his duties shall
be performed...
Commissioner Plummer: OK, I got a real problem...
Mr. Jones:... by the Mayor's designee."
Commissioner Plummer: I got a real problem with that, all right. I have no problem with the
Mayor designating one of the Commissioners, but I think it should be definitely limited to that.
58 July 3, 1997
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Commissioner Gort: Let me ask a question.
Mayor Carollo: Well, what he's doing here, J.L., is making provisions that if for any reason...
Commissioner Plummer: Correct.
Mayor Carollo: ... in the future, 50 years from now, a Mayor didn't have the time, for whatever
reason did not name a designee and God forbids he gets sick, something happens to him, that at
least the Commission has that power within themselves to be able to name a designee.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I..., Mr. Mayor, you know, I can't envision that someone sitting
in the Mayor's chair by either absence, death, retirement or what is not an elected official. Now,
that's why I think it is very important that that wording...
Commissioner Gort: It has to be an elected official.
Mayor Carollo: Well, it has to be. It's already covered.
j Commissioner Gort: It has to be an elected official.
f
Commissioner Plummer: No, it doesn't.
Mayor Carollo: It has to be someone from the Commission.
Commissioner Plummer: No, sir.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, yes.
Commissioner Gort: It has to be an elected official.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. City Attorney?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: You tell me where it says... That wording was taken out.
Mayor Carollo: But, that was in another provision here that I read before, that it had to be from
the Commission.
Commissioner Plummer: It does not say that the Mayor's designee must be a Commission or
elected official.
Mr. Jones: Well, we can change it.
Mayor Carollo: Well, I think it should be spelled out. If it wasn't in a previous section...
Mr. Jones: Well, why don't we change it this...?
Mayor Carollo: ... that the designee must be someone from the Commission.
Mr. Jones: Why don't we just say it this way?
Commissioner Plummer: That's my point.
S9 July 3, 1997
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Commissioner Gort: Let me ask a question?
Commissioner Hernandez: Do the same thing you did in the standing committee language.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, why don't we this? "During his absences or disabilities duties shall be
performed by a designated member of the City Commission."
Commissioner Plummer: That's fine.
Commissioner Gort: Let me ask you a question? Why don't we use...?
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, but the Mayor's designee that must be a member of the City Commission.
Commissioner Plummer: Absolutely.
Mr. Jones: Who shall...
Unidentified Speaker: Who shall be a member of the Commission.
Commissioner Gort: Question.
Commissioner Plummer: Shall is mandatory.
Mayor Carollo: You don't want to use May?
Commissioner Plummer: No.
Commissioner Gort: Excuse me.
Mayor Carollo: You telling me...
Commissioner Gort: J. L.
Mayor Carollo: ... it was the same thing for the other one?
Commissioner Plummer: No, I did not tell you. You said it, I didn't agree with you.
Commissioner Gort: Guys, let me ask you a question? What do you think about maintaining the
same system we have rotating... each Commissioner will have every year to be ... To have the
same system we have today to designate the Vice Mayor. That each year rotating...
Mayor Carollo: You're really... We are really now getting into a situation that we are starting to
really get away fully from what we have in the County system that was approved already. And,
that's why I am trying to stick with that, as much as we can. In fact, we are following it
practically per word so that the voters can vote for something, that we can let them know that it's
the same thing you voted for in the County's election.
Commissioner Gort: What you are telling me, is that this document here is presently being used
by the County, Executive Mayor?
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, yeah. This is exactly what the voters approved before, for the County
Executive Mayor.
60 July 3, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: Well, you see, where... you look where it was before, OK? And, that
what's been scratched out. Another member appointed by the Commission. I have no problem
with the Mayor making the designation but I want it limited to a Commissioner elected official.
Mr. Rafael O. Diaz (Assistant City Attorney: We can accomplish that by adding "who shall be a
member of the Commission" at the end of that.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Not an elected official. By... not just any elected official, by a member
of this Commission.
Commissioner Plummer: Present Commission.
Mr. Diaz: Present Commission.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, I agree with that.
Mr. Diaz: OK. Section five is the next section dealing with the veto authority.
Commissioner Gort: Which one is this now?
Commissioner Plummer: Five.
Mr. Diaz: This is...
Commissioner Plummer: It's right after section one we were talking.
Commissioner Gort: I am going through the old and the new one. I have got to use both.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, the numbers are even different.
Commissioner Gort: ... Commission ten days...
Commissioner Plummer: I though we had agreed on majority, no super majority?
Mayor Carollo: We are using the two-thirds just like in Dade County.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, that's... But, that's not what's in here, it's four -fifths.
Mr. Jones: Well, it's..
Commissioner Hernandez: Well, it depends how many people are present at.. if all five.
Commissioner Plummer: Well... but, but... I would...
Mayor Carollo: Well, but that's two-thirds. If you got five, you need four.
Commissioner Hernandez: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: On two-thirds?
Commissioner Hernandez: That's two-thirds.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, this is four -fifths.
61
July 3, 1997
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Mr. Diaz: Four -fifths.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Hernandez: Four -fifths vote of the Commissioners present.
Commissioner Plummer: yeah, you have got to have a quorum. That's what we said this
morning.
Mayor Carollo: If you got the five, it's four.
Mr. Jones: OK.
Commissioner Gort: Question.
Mayor Carollo: Otherwise, it's a simple majority.
Commissioner Hernandez: Right.
Commissioner Gort: Let me ask a legal question? If you go over any legislative item, quasi
judicial, zoning, massive plan land use, should that be part of that?
Mayor Carollo: That's what the County has.
Commissioner Plummer: That what the County has. Do we have to go to the Charter or can you
briefly explain what 29, section 29(b) and 29(d) is?
Mr. Jones: Twenty-nine (b) deals with disposition of real and personed property.
Unidentified Speaker: [inaudible]
Mr. Jones: Huh?
Unidentified Speaker: Real properties.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, real property.
Commissioner Plummer: And, 29(d)?
Mr. Jones: That's the amendment I believe that you... that the voters passed a year or so ago that
allows the water related activities amending to give... isn't that?
Unidentified Speaker: It's Watson Island.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, that's the... No, 29(c), is Watson Island.
Unidentified Speaker: Watson Island is 29(c), right.
Mr. Jones: Twenty-nine (d) is the amendment that we made dealing with City -owned waterfront
property and leases with nonprofit organizations.
Commissioner Plummer: Twenty-nine (b).
Unidentified Speaker: B, C and D.
62 July 3, 1997
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Mr. Jones: Twenty-nine (b) is the... deals with the disposition or real property, City real
property.
Commissioner Plummer: Disposed?
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: Of real property, all right. And, "D" as in David?
Mr. Jones: "D" deals with City -owned real waterfront property and leases with nonprofit
organizations and wavering competitive bidding.
Unidentified Speaker: ... also include "C" in there. It's "D"...
Commissioner Plummer: "C" is not here.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: You said "B" through "D". All right, what is "C"?
Mr. Jones: "C" deals with Watson Island, commonly referred to as...
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mayor Carollo: OK, on six, there was a change...
Mr. Jones: Yes...
Mayor Carollo: ... that we are using the exact 14 days that the County passed, not the 30 days
that was placed here.
Mr. Jones: And, what we did here is also, continuing over to the... as four -fifths of those
Commissioners then in office shall be able to remove the Manager.
Commissioner Plummer: This was changed from the original, Joe, of ten days to 14.
Mr. Jones: That's correct:
Commissioner Plummer: Not 30 days.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, this tracks...
Mayor Carollo: Well, the last one that I have was 30...
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: ... but this changed to 14.
Commissioner Plummer: Wow, wow. What's the last one, which one do you have?
Mr. Jones: The version he probably has, from this morning.
Commissioner Plummer: No, the one this morning had ten days, OK.
63
July 3, 1997
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Mayor Carollo: OK, now...
Commissioner Plummer: This one has 14, now where is 30 days coming from?
Mayor Carollo: Well, that's the one that I had from before. I don't know when he gave this out.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, OK, all right. The ten days is what changed to 14?
Mayor Carollo: Well, yeah. The bottom line is 14 like in accounting.
Mr. Jones: No. We added... The first part of number six was added. "... when one person
succeeds another in the position of Mayor, the successor shall have the right to appoint the
Manager subject to the approval within 14 days, the majority of the Commissioners then in
office." Then the latter part which says " ... the Mayor shall appoint the Manager subject to the
approval within 14 days" The version you had this morning said 30. And, now we are making it
consistent with 14.
Commissioner Plummer: Fine.
Commissioner Gort: I have a question.
Mr. Jones: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Gort: My understanding is, if the Mayor is vetoed or be vetoes an action taken by
the Commission, the Commissioners override that veto...
Mr. Jones: Uh-huh.
Commissioner Gort: ... does that end, right there?
Mr. Jones: I would say for all intents and purposes, it's dead.
Commissioner Gort: OK. Can we put the wording there that explains that it's dead?
Mr. Jones: I think the way to deal with that Commissioner is that you deal with it within the
rules of procedure.
Commissioner Plummer: And, we... And, the Commission set their own?
Mayor Carollo: That's right. OK, let's move on to see what else we have here.
Mr. Jones: On, the next change appears on page ten, section nine.
Commissioner Hernandez: Quinn, before we move, just one last question on six?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Hernandez: If four -fifths of the Commissioners vote in favor of removing the
Manager, can the Mayor do anything about that, to stop it? Can he... does he have...?
Mr. Jones: No, if the votes are there, that's the end of it.
Commissioner Hernandez: I mean, he could veto the four -fifths vote to remove the Manager,
could he?
64 July 3, 1997
Mr. Jones: No.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, that deviates quite a bit from what we have presently. Presently,
three members can...
Mr. Jones: Well, presently the Manager has a... You are talking about the removal of the
Manager?
+ Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, he has the right of a hearing.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, he has the right... Yes.
i
Commissioner Plummer: In front of the same people who fired him originally.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, yeah.
Commissioner Hernandez: So, the Commission can remove the Manager and the Mayor
obviously could...
Mr. Jones: Well, the...
Commissioner Hernandez: comment on it, but he could not veto or...
Mr. Jones: The Mayor would have to remove him subject to review by the City Commission.
Commissioner Plummer: The City Commission can also remove him.
Commissioner Hernandez: But, that's my question. Can...?
Mr. Jones: Or the Commission. Or the Commission can.
Unidentified Speaker: By four -fifths.
Commissioner Hernandez: We can start our own action.
Mr. Jones: By four -fifths, by extraordinary.
I Commissioner Hernandez: Right.
Mr. Jones: By four -fifths.
Commissioner Hernandez: And, would the Mayor have the power to stop us from doing that?
Mr. Jones: No.
Commissioner Plummer: No.
Mayor Carollo: Well, the County provisions the voters approved says that additionally the
Commission by a two-thirds votes of those Commissioners then in office shall be able to remove
the Manager. Is this what we have in ours?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
65 July 3, 1997
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Mr. Jones: Yes.
I
Commissioner Plummer: What I am looking at, on a tour -fifths vote...
Mr. Jones: The only difference is ours is four -fifths.
Commissioner Plummer: On any issue of a four -fifths vote, the Mayor is dead?
Mr. Jones: Yeah, that's right.
j Commissioner Plummer: On any issue.
i
Mr. Jones: That's right.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. That in order to override...
Commissioner Hernandez: Right.
Mayor Carollo: ... a veto, you need the four votes.
Commissioner Plummer: Well... but, yeah, OK. But, now let me ask you in reference to the
City Attorney and the City Clerk?
Mayor Carollo: That's set by the Commission just like in the County.
Mr. Jones: That hasn't changed.
Mayor Carollo: That's why...
Commissioner Plummer: My question is...
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: ... can the Mayor veto this Commission's action of appointing the
two?
Mr. Jones: No.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, just wanted it clear.
Mr. Jones: I am not...
Mayor Carollo: Boy, he had the answer real quick on that one, didn't he?
Commissioner Plummer: Coming home, ain't it, eh? Eh, the fish is coming to roost?
Mayor Carollo: I never seen him answer a question so quick before.
Mr. Jones: Well, you know, I might fear with the whole Commission, I don't know.
Mayor Carollo: What the City Attorney did was mered again the exact wording that the County
had.
66 July 3, 1997
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Mr. Jones: OK, let's see the...
Mayor Carollo: OK, where else...
Mr. Jones: Page ten, section nine.
Mayor Carollo: Ten, section nine.
Commissioner Gort: I have a question on seven?
Mr. Jones: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Gort: Are we going to come back to all this or are we just going to go through the
changes...?
Commissioner Plummer: Come back to anything you want.
i
Mayor Carollo: Well, we can come back...
Commissioner Gort: This sentence says "... the Mayor shall appoint the members of all standing
committees and the chairperson and vice chairperson."
Commissioner Plummer: You are on... wait a minute you are on seven?
Mayor Carollo: He is on page seven.
Commissioner Gort: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Page seven or section...?
Commissioner Gort: We on page eight, section seven.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, hold on. Hold on.
Mayor Carollo: OK, page eight, section seven.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Commissioner Gort: OK, it says "... the Mayor shall appoint the members of all standing
committees." Does that mean that we... that the Commission does not appoint anyone to this
committee?
Mr. Jones: There are two distinctions here. There is this, which I have discussed yesterday,
would be actually members of the Commission that would comprise these committees. Under
section 14 of the Charter, the Commission still has the ability to appoint any committees it wants
and to name whomever it wants to appoint to committees. So, they are basically two separate
scenarios. The only distinction being that, if the Mayor wishes to appoint a standing committee
comprised of you as Commissioners...
Commissioner Gort: Right.
Mr. Jones:... then only he would have that power. However, if the City Commission wanted to
comprise a committee for whatever reason, you have the authority to do it.
67 July 3, 1997
Commissioner Gort: You know, I am not an attorney, so to me it takes me a little longer to
digest...
Mr. Jones: No, I understand that. Now, the question that I have, let's look at the Zoning Board.
Mayor Carollo: That's done by the Commission.
Mr. Jones: That's done by the Commission. That's...
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, all the other... yeah, planning...
Commissioner Gort: That will be planning and the existing board will be appointed by the
Commission.
Mayor Carollo: ... code enforcement, yeah, sure. Yeah.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, none of that changed.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, sure. The same way the County does.
Commissioner Gort: Right. OK.
Mayor Carollo: Now, on seven we clarified the language even better than what the County had,
I believe, didn't we?
Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: Because they were a little ambiguous.
Commissioner Hernandez: We defined that the committee members had to be Commission
members.
Mayor Carollo: yeah.
Commissioner Hernandez: That wasn't defined in the County Charter.
Commissioner Plummer: All right. On that same, number nine...
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: "The Mayor, shall prepare and deliver a budgetary address." He does
not prepare the budget does he?
Mr. Jones: No.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. It's still the Manager who is on a deadline of July the 15th.
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mayor Carollo: Now...
0
July 3, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: In other words lie just gives his address...
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: ... anytime he wants...
Vice Mayor Regalado: Now...
Commissioner Plummer: ... but it's not the budget itself?
Vice Mayor Regalado: But when it says here "... such reports shall be prepared after
consultation with the Commissioners and the Manager." How would the Mayor be consulting
with the Commissioners on the budget address?
Mr. Jones: What number is this? No.
Unidentified Speaker: Number eight.
Commissioner Plummer: Where do you see that?
Mr. Jones: On page eight.
Unidentified Speaker: ... number nine.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Eight.
Mayor Carollo: Very simple the...
Mr. Jones: Page eight, number nine.
Commissioner Plummer: Eh?
Mr. Jones: Page eight, number nine. Subsection nine.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. The...
Commissioner Plummer: "Shall prepare as consulting with the Manager."
Mr. Jones: That's a.., yeah.
Mayor Carollo: What is the...
Vice Mayor Regalado: It says Commissioner.
Mayor Carollo: Well, what does the County code say. I think the County code says
"Commission and Manager" right? If I remember.
Mr. Jones: Yes, I think Finance, Budget Director...
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, but we don't have a Budget Director in the Charter, that's why we didn't
include that.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, where does it say "Commission and..."
69
July 3, 1997
1.
Mr. Jones: No, it doesn't.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. See, the... by the tact that the Mayor is not a voting member of this
Commission...
Commissioner Hernandez: Right, you can lobby...
Mayor Carollo: ... then the Mayor can speak to the individual members of the Commission...
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
'
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, oh, oh. Eight.
i
Commissioner Hernandez: Right.
Mayor Carollo: ...because there is no Sunshine law violation.
Vice Mayor Regalado: All right. So, what you are saying is, is that the Mayor can speak to
i
every member on any issue?
Mayor Carollo: That's correct, yeah.
Commissioner Gort: Yes. There is no Sunshine law on that.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Hernandez: Right.
Vice Mayor Regalado: But, that's what I am...
I
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you know, you are raising a good question. Mr. City Attorney?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Where the Mayor can no loner vote as a Commissioner, is there a
violation of Sunshine involved?
Commissioner Gort: No, they are not voting on the same issues.
Commissioner Hernandez: No, no.
Mr. Jones: No, he is not a part of the Commission.
I
Commissioner Plummer: So, then I could talk to the Mayor...
Mr. Jones: He's an elected...
Commissioner Plummer: ... at any time.
Mr. Jones: No, he would still...
Commissioner Plummer: He has veto power?
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
70 July 3, 1997
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Unidentified Speaker: Commissioner Regalado is mixing up the State of the report....
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Mr. Jones: With the budget.
Unidentified Speaker: ... with the budget.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Gort: I have a question...
Mr. Jones: Commissioner Regalado...
Mayor Carollo: Wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on. You.. Let's go through that again. Let's
go through that again. Your legal interpretation is, the Mayor can or cannot speak to the
Commissioners by the simple fact that he will not be voting with the Commission, since he will
be an Executive Mayor.
Mr. Jones: Yeah. I think because you are still an elected official, the Sunshine law is still going
to be applicable.
Commissioner Plummer: Not much.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, yeah.
Mayor Carollo: You think it will, well...
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, the difference Joe...
Mayor Carollo: You better check with your counter partner the County because...
Commissioner Hernandez: I think so. Your are right.
Mayor Carollo: ... if you are right then they might have some problems over there. But, I...
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but if you hold veto power, that could be construed as a vote.
Mr. Jones: He has veto power, yeah. I understand that.
Mayor Carollo: Well, I...
Commissioner Plummer: Just because they violate it all day long don't make it right.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, let's move along on this one because we are OK, but...
Commissioner Hernandez: Oh, gee.
Commissioner Gort: And, I have one... a question so that we won't have to come back to all
these later on, once we are finish going through...
71
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July 3, 1997
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i Mayor Carollo: Yeah, Commissioner Hernandez knows what I am talking about.
Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah. Even though I am under the impression, like you were, Mr.
Mayor that's...
Mayor Carollo: Well, that's what they told me, anyway.
Commissioner Hernandez: ... that you will be able to discuss with the Commission the
independent Commissioners without violating Sunshine.
Mayor Carollo: Well, I think when the time comes that's something to be absolutely on the safe
side, we should ask the Attorney General to provide an opinion on.
Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah.
Commissioner Gort: And, "G" three.
Mayor Carollo: Before we go to "G" three, Commissioner. Mr. City Attorney, on seven, on
page eight, seven. "The Mayor shall appoint members on standing committee..." and so on and
so forth. Does this permit the Mayor...
Commissioner Plummer: Where is he...?
Mayor Carollo: It's the same one that Willy was going through before.
Commissioner Gort: Page eight.
Mayor Carollo: To name committees like for instance, committees that have been named in the
County...
Unidentified Speaker: Page eight.
Mayor Carollo: ... recently to overlook the back tax dollars and so on...?
Commissioner Hernandez: That's what it... Well...
Unidentified Speaker: That would be a standing...
Mayor Carollo: Excuse me?
Mr. Jones: That would be a standing committee.
Mayor Carollo: OK, so that could be... ON, I just want to make sure that... All right, go ahead,
Commissioner.
Commissioner Gort: Let me...
I Vice Mayor Regalado: When you, Mr. Mayor, and City Attorney. When you or the Mayor will
appoint a chairman or vice chairman for one committee, would that committee have the same
oversight powers it has in the County? For instance, we are talking about the public safety
committee, or the airport or the port? Those Commissioners do have powers in terms of
overseeing the department.
72 July 3, 1997
e:
Mayor Carollo: Well, now that we are going to have an airport again, and a port again...
Vice Mayor Regalado: Yeah, that's why.
Mr. Jones: Yeah. Mr. Vice... My answer to...
Vice Mayor Regalado: Little as it may be .
Mr. Jones: My answer to you, that they would have whatever power... whatever you want them
to undertake in terms of their task as a committee, would be their charge. When you say over, I
think what you are saying is that, like there.... Yeah, there basically is a review process like, I
won't say a "big brother" but, you would have the ability to review that department or whatever
request, whatever and report back to the committee or report back to the Commission. Keeping
in mind that the City Manager would still be the administrator... for administration purposes,
over the different departments.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, there is also more consideration than just that. In the County
they have three Commissioners appointed each committee. They are 13, we are five. It would
almost have to be where one Commissioner would be in charge of one area or have
responsibility in one area. I think what you are really talking about Tomas, I think and Aaron
can probably give us more insight than that in the County. For example, nothing... If I was in
charge of public safety, nothing can come before the County Commission in reference to public
safety without first going through the committee procedure. But, they can hold it up and many,
many times and they send back to the committee for more study or more references. And,
basically it saves the time of the Commission itself.
Vice Mayor Regalado; But, not only that, but suppose a member of the Commission has a
problem in his or her district with public safety, that Commission usually sends some
information to the chairman of that Commission so that he or she would see that.
Commissioner Plummer: You are on thin ice, very thin ice.
Vice Mayor Regalado: I know that. But, I am...
t
1 Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Vice Mayor Regalado: But, I just want to make sure if we are talking about tailoring this to the
County's form of government, just to know what the Legal Department can tell us about
scenarios like this.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, I think the best way to deal with that would be through an administrative...
some sort of procedure.
Mayor Carollo: OK, let's move on, let's go to the next one.
Commissioner Plummer: Fine. You wanted number three, Willy?
Commissioner Gort: Number three, it says "... in time of...?
Mayor Carollo: What page?
Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah.
Commissioner Gort: OK, "G", page seven. Under "G" "powers and duties of the Mayor."
73 July 3, 1997
Mayor Carollo: OK, page seven.
Commissioner Gort: Three.
Mayor Carollo: I don't see a "G" on page seven.
Commissioner Hernandez: Where...
Mayor Carollo: Wait a minute.
Unidentified Speaker: Six you mean?
Mr. Jones: Six.
1 Commissioner Plummer: No, it's number three on page seven.
Commissioner Gort: Three on page seven.
Mr. Jones: Oh.
Mayor Carollo: Number three.
Commissioner Gort: "In time of public danger or emergency."
Unidentified Speaker: It's there now.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: That's exactly what's in our present Charter right now.
Commissioner Gort: What's in our Charter right now?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Gort: OK.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, this is there right now, yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but it would take... He can't do it without Commissioners
approval.
Commissioner Gort: Right, OK.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, that's in the Charter.
Mr. Jones: OK, let's see where we leave off now. I guess...
i Commissioner Plummer: We are on page ten...
Mr. Jones: ... page 11.
Commissioner Plummer: ... section nine.
a
74 July 3, 1997
7.
Mr. Jones: i am sorry. OK, section nine, page ten.
Mayor Carollo: Page ten, section nine.
Mr. Jones: Yeah. Essentially here it says a tie between two or more candidates for the office of
Commissioner shall be decided. The County, under the County provision, they do it by lot.
Previously, we had ours under the direction of the City Judge, but we added a court of competent
jurisdiction.
Mayor Carollo: This is going to end up there anyway...
Mr. Jones; Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: ... that why I think the City Attorney placed it?
I
Commissioner Plummer: OK, I have a problem. Would do you... if you call the runoff a
regular municipal election, what is the primary called?
Unidentified Speaker: Regular.
Mr. Jones: A regular.
Commissioner Plummer: The same?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, they are all regular.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, but you see, that... You read this through and I think you can
i see maybe what my problem is. This could be misconstrued very simple, that the highest... the
one who gets the highest vote is the winner, is declared elected. It doesn't say a primary, it says
I the regular. And, if both elections are called regular municipal elections, it could be conceived
very simply that the first one, the highest vote getter.
Commissioner Gort: Well, it says here the primary election.
Commissioner Plummer: Where does it say "primary."
Commissioner Gort: In page nine, "the candidate for nomination to the office of Commission
j shall receive the greatest vote in the primary election should be placed....
Commissioner Plummer: But he's saying...
Commissioner Gort: .. the next regular municipal election.
Mr. Jones; The what?
Commissioner Plummer: What he is saying is, they are both called...
I
Mr. Jones: .... at large.
j Commissioner Plummer: ... regular municipal elections. I am saying is, that one should be
termed primary and one should be the regular as we know it.
I
75 July 3, 1997
Commissioner Gort: Well, in here it says "primary election." Page nine, bottom, the last
paragraph.
Commissioner Plummer: Then why wouldn't it be carried down...? Why would then we would
have to have eight and nine?
Mayor Carollo: Whenever you are ready, Mr. City Attorney, you can answer that?
Mr. Jones: Your question, why do you need eight and nine?
Commissioner Plummer: Well, or why not be more clear on nine, that instead of calling it...?
You know, you could call it regular in parenthesis runoff or general election. The general is
usually accepted as the final. One would be a primary and one is a general. And, I think that we
I
ought to be more clear on that?
Mr. Jones: All right. Well, I have to work with that then.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, I am sure.
Commissioner Gort: You want to change it from regular to general?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. One would be called a primary and one would be called a
general.
Mayor Carollo: I have no problem with that for the sake of clarifying it even more.
Commissioner Plummer: Section 14, is new, and the only reason is, is to include the Mayor
being able to have the ability to bring about investigations.
Mr. Jones: Commissioner Plummer, if you look at page nine. Section eight on page nine.
Commissioner Plummer: yeah.
Mr. Jones: Second paragraph where it says "the candidates for nomination to the office of
Commissioner who shall receive the greatest vote in the primary district...
Commissioner Gort: [inaudible]
Commissioner Plummer: That's what we just said.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. But, you said the definition of regular municipal is the same as
the primary.
Mr. Jones: Well, under our scenario it is.
Commissioner Plummer: Hey, I just think we ought to try to clear it out...
Mr. Jones: Yeah, we will clear...
Commissioner Plummer: ... as much as we can so there is no misconception.
Mr. Jones: OK.
76 July 3, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: That's all.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, OK. All right. If you move over to page...
Commissioner Plummer: Page 11.
Mr. Jones:... page 11. The only change here is in section 14 where it...
Mayor Carollo: Hold on, for a minute.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: That's section 14?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: If we...?
Commissioner Plummer: Gives you the right as well as us.
Mr. Jones: What we are taking out is "duly authorize". You see there, we have duly authorize
by the Commission so to do. So, we are just going to take that out. So, the Mayor, Commission
or any committee...
Mayor Carollo: Right. But, on... If we turn to page 12.
Mr. Jones: Page 12.
Mayor Carollo: It says in conducting such investigations of the Commission... In conducting
such investigations, shouldn't it say of the Mayor, Commission or any committee thereof?
Mr. Jones: Right. You are absolutely right. We missed that.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Mr. Jones: The Mayor, Commission or any committee thereof.
Mayor Carollo: Otherwise, it's kind of...
Mr. Jones: You are right. We missed that. Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, likewise. I mean, it works both ways.
Mr. Jones: Yes. Yes, it does. But, you have a valid point. We will make that correction.
Commissioner Gort: We are adding the Mayor to this one.
Mr. Jones: We are adding the Mayor to that...
Commissioner Plummer: Yes, we are adding the Mayor, giving him the right to do it.
77
July 3, 1997
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: Where are we at now?
Commissioner Plummer: Page 13.
Commissioner Hernandez; Page 13, yeah.
Mayor Carollo: Thirteen?
Mr. Jones: No, we... Thirteen was there this morning, it hasn't been changed.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, yeah. It's...
i
Unidentified Speaker: Page 17, change in the language.
Mr. Jones: The next change 17, which is basically the change in the language that I read at the
beginning.
Commissioner Plummer: And, how does that change from this morning, only by instruction... by
filling in the blanks?
Mr. Jones: What I did is... What the... on page 17, the language?
Commissioner Plummer: yeah.
Mr. Jones: The language changed by adding "With boundaries delineated by the Commission..."
Commissioner Plummer: All right.
Mr. Jones: ... and then when... which you made a comment about in terms of number two,
"Appointing and removing the City Manager subject to Commission review".
Commissioner Plummer: OK. But, other than that, everything is as was, this morning?
Mr. Jones: Absolutely.
Mr. Aaron Weeks (Chief of Staff): Commissioners, in the language regarding the City Manager,
you may want to consider...
Commissioner Plummer: What page?
Mr. Weeks: In general, on page 13, where you are talking about the... the language is talking
about the qualifications of the Manager. You may want to consider that the Manager should
have at a minimum ten years of government experience in order to ensure that you are getting
someone that is competent and well versed in running a City.
Commissioner Plummer: That doesn't mean he is competent, it means you have got a good shot
at it.
Mayor Carollo: Does military time count for that or not?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, I don't think that's necessary. I don't want to bind the
Commission by that. I think the Commission has the right to judge if they want somebody with
78 July 3, 1997
three years experience who has great knowledge in something, I don't think we should be denied
the right of having that individual. I mean, you are going to say that he has got to have BA
(Bachelor of Arts) degree in this and a Masters degree in that. Fourteen kids and live in the City
of Miami? I would have loved to have put that in there. You know, Hialeah just passed it.
Hialeah passed that all employees, that future employees after October 1, must reside in the City
of Hialeah and any present employees have to live in the City within two years thereafter. But, I
am not going to make it required. According to this, you can get a City Manager from anywhere
out of State, and I have no problem with that if that's what we are going to do to get the best
man.
Mayor Carollo: Well, those should be the...
Commissioner Gort: Joe, the best person.
Mayor Carollo: ... qualifications...
Commissioner Plummer: After the best person is what I want.
Mayor Carollo: ... that the Commission will set if that time comes in the future.
Commissioner Plummer: At the time we search. Yeah. Or that you search, OK. Now, I think
for a Mayor to put out a search for a City Manager without in some way consulting with the City
Commission, would be making a mistake because he's subject to override with a veto to go
through a process of selecting a City Manager who... if there is a vacancy.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. That's why this system has got checks and balances.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: OK, anything else that we need to go over this? Any additional questions that
members of the Commission have on anything here?
Mr. Jones: Well, if you want to... Joel, you want to clarify this? Go ahead.
Commissioner Plummer: What page?
Mr. Joel Maxwell (Deputy City Attorney): I am reading from the Charter now. Section 7 of...
Commissioner Plummer: Page, what page on here?
Mr. Jones: This is related...
Mr. Maxwell: This is in the Charter. This is related to the question you raised, the difference
between a primary and a regular election.
Commissioner Plummer: Correct.
Mr. Maxwell: There is a difference between the...
Commissioner Plummer: OK, go ahead.
Mr. Maxwell: The primary, actually is the first election.
Commissioner Plummer: That's correct.
79 July 3, 1997
Mr. Maxwell: The regular election is the one that follows, it's an axiom sometimes called, not
axiom sometimes called a runoff. But under our Charter, regular actually is a runoff.
Unidentified Speaker: That's the final.
Mr. Maxwell: Yeah. It's the final. A regular election on our Charter reads this way "a regular
election for the election of Commissioners shall be held on the second Tuesday after the first
Monday in November. A Nonpartisan primary election for nomination of candidates for the
Commission shall be held on the first Tuesday after the first Monday." So, that they are held
different days.
Commissioner Plummer: Joel, all I am saying is, I think the language should be as clear and
understood as possible. That's all I am saying, OK.
Mr. Maxwell: Yeah, what...
Commissioner Plummer: You never go to look at a contract until there is a problem. When
everything is going smooth you never look at a contract.
Mr. Maxwell: I understand that, sir. What I am saying is that when we use the word "regular" in
other sections of the Charter, it's clear what that means because that word is defined in another
section.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, I put it across the record, across the minutes for future reference.
And, in the year 2010 when it's contested, I'll be here to remind you.
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor, if I might. I just wanted to...
Mayor Carollo: Didn't you say something the other day that you, well, maybe not...
Commissioner Plummer: What was that, Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Carollo: Well, I won't remind you.
Commissioner Plummer: But, I lie a lot.
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor, if I might? I just wanted to thank our legislative coordinator, Beverly
Solomon and...
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Mr. Jones: ... both Mr. Diaz and Mr. Maxwell for the time and effort they put on this on such
short notice. I would like to thank also, Mr. Lennard for his comments in helping us refine this.
Mayor Carollo: Well, I certainly am very, very happily surprised just how good of a job was
done so quickly by the Legal Department. I am very appreciative of the amount of work they
had to do to accomplish this in such a short time and certainly we want to extend that gratitude
for a job well done in assisting us, Mr. Lennard. So, we are very, very pleased of the job that's
been done. It's been a very major task that we gave to our Legal Department to...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let's call it...
Mayor Carollo: ... to do and research in such a short time.
80 July 3, 1997
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, let's call it like is. None of them would have been worth a
damn without our colleague Willy Gort.
Mayor Carollo: Absolutely, correct. He, you know, took the brunt of this. You know, he might
have said he didn't know what he was getting into to, but you know, he...
Commissioner Gort: You were right.
Mayor Carollo: ... did a job that...
Commissioner Gort: You are right about that.
Mayor Carollo: ... I don't think anyone else could have brought it to the point that we finally are
finishing it today.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I move you at this time that the City of Miami question
has just under present review he adopted.
Unidentified Speaker: Can we modify?
Mr. Jones: Yes. Can you...
Commissioner Plummer: Can I?
Mr. Jones: Modify? Why don't you basically say the resolution as proposed...
Commissioner Plummer: As amended.
Mr. Jones: The proposed resolution with Charter amendment task and ballot language be
approved.
Commissioner Plummer: That's exactly what I said.
Mayor Carollo: OK. Do you want to read the resolution to...
Mr. Jones: Certainly.
Mayor Carollo: ... make sure that this is the resolution that the Commissioner is approving?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
[At this point, the City Attorney read the resolution into the public records.]
Commissioner Plummer: I have a problem. I acquiesce to you when you said that you were
limited by the number of words that you could use in the ballot question. I don't think you are
limited by the number of words in the resolution. And, as such I am going to ask that in Section
two, "appoint and remove the City Manager subject to Commission review and veto override".
Mayor Carollo: Where are we at now?
Commissioner Plummer: In the resolution, Mr. Mayor. They said they could not put in the vote,
the actual Charter question.
81 July 3, 1997
Mayor Carollo: That's all the way to the...
Commissioner Plummer: It's already in the...
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Yeah. I am just...
Commissioner Plummer: It's already in the document.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Let me just get the exact wording.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. What page is it on?
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, what page is it on?
Mr. Jones: No, he wants to put it in the bottom.
Unidentified Speaker: No, no. He wants it in the title...
Mr. Jones: You want to put it in the title?
Unidentified Speaker: In the title or the...?
Commissioner Plummer: In the resolution. Yes, in the title.
Mr. Jones: Yeah. OK.
Commissioner Plummer: In the title. What page is it on?
Unidentified Speaker: In the review... (phonetic)
Commissioner Plummer: What page is it on? Hello?
Mayor Carollo: It's the large page actually, in this package.
Commissioner Plummer: Page?
Mr. Jones: Subject to Commission override. Is that what you want?
Commissioner Plummer: Yes, just exactly the wording that's within the body of the...
Mr. Jones: Subject to Commission override then.
Commissioner Plummer: That's correct. You said you couldn't put it in the ballot question
because of the amount of words that you could put on it.
Mr. Jones: Where?
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Would that be all right?
Mr. Jones: Yeah, we can do that. You just change it override.
Mayor Carollo: To Commission, instead of review you want override?
82 July 3, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: Well, review and...
Mr. Jones: Review and override.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, review and override. OK. Since we are here, before we vote upon this,
does the Commission have any preference on the heading of how it would appear on the ballot.
If they want the City of Miami Charter amendment to say that it's "a City of Miami Charter
providing for single member district and creating a position of Executive Mayor. Or having a
City of Miami Charter amendment creating "a position of Executive Mayor and providing for
single member districts." I am just bringing it out so that the Commission can decide which of
the two that they would rather have first for the voters to read and vote upon?
Commissioner Plummer: It makes no difference to me.
Mayor Carollo: Well. I don't know if there is... if it makes any difference at all or not. But, I
just thought I would bring it up.
Commissioner Gort: I believe we should have the districts first.
Mayor Carollo: OK. Commissioners.
Commissioner Plummer: Really, I don't think it would make a hill of beans. I mean, if
everybody...
Mayor Carollo: Well, I tend to agree.
Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah.
Vice Mayor Regalado: The people of Miami will learn that they are voting for districts and for
an Executive Mayor. Although, the whole work of the Commission was to create districts but
the Executive Mayor was part of the whole work. So, I believe that we should leave it like in
terms of calling the attention to the voter, that indeed there is an Executive Mayor and of course
the districting.
Commissioner Plummer: I hope you are right. But, I am scared for the reason. Look how long
it has taken us to fully understand and come to a conclusion on the issue. I just... I am concerned
that the public are not going to be able to have that intense education and this community has
proven a period of time when people don't understand an issue, they turned it down.
Commissioner Gort: They vote against it.
Commissioner Hernandez: That's going to be up to us.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Hernandez: We are going to have to go out.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, that was my next question that I was going to ask. You know,
we now have said that we were going to hire...
Mayor Carollo: Before you enter into that?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
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July 3, 1997
Mayor Carollo: Can we finish this and make sure we are OK, and we could vote on it? Mr. City
Attorney?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Mayor Carollo: One last question on the wording here? It says "commencing in 1997", do we
need to spell out the month of 1997 or not?
Commissioner Gort: November.
Mr. Jones: If you want to be more specific, we can put November ...
Commissioner Plummer: You got only 71 words. So, you can put four more.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, yeah.
Mayor Carollo: OK, so the Charter be amended right, commencing in November, 1997. OK.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, as you know, we authorize the City Manager to engage a
professional translator for the issue relating to keeping or demise of the City. I would hope that
we are going to demand the same thing into the wording of this ballot. I don't want to leave it up
to anybody translation other than someone who is professional and independent and cannot be
accused of bias.
Vice Mayor Regalado: J.L.
Commissioner Plummer: I also am concerned, Mr. Mayor, that we have got to come, as I said
the other day, we are tomorrow, two months off of the election of probably the two most
important issues that this City has ever faced. And, I think that we are just got to come up with
some... starting the educational program...
Mayor Carollo: We must and we will. With the changes that have finally been made, we are
making the change of commencing in November, 1997. We are including the month of
November and then in number two, we are adding the word override, review and override.
Commissioner Plummer: Correct.
Mayor Carollo: And, with those changes, is there any further discussions so that we could take a
vote on this.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Just a point to J.L. There was an official translator hired by the City
Clerk. And, I saw the work that he did, it was very good, on the abolition question. As a matter
of fact, he had to do some rewriting, the official translator. And, I think that indeed we need to
have a person, a professional to do this question because it's a little complicated and people need
to understand. But, I think that maybe Walter will use the same person.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I guess being of non -Spanish speaking. I am told by many
Spanish speaking people that there is one particular press in town whose morning edition of the
translated into Spanish is horrible. Now, I don't know that to be a fact. That it really misses an
awful lot in the translation. I know that on weekends they don't even have a translator because I
tried to give an obituary on Sunday, and I was sorry, that you can't do it in El Herald because we
don't have translators on the weekend. So, that's where my area of concern is coming from.
Mayor Carollo: All right who second the. motion? Now, J.L. made it.
84 July 3, 1997
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Commissioner Hernandez: I did.
Mr. Foeman: We need a seconder, Mister...
Mayor Carollo: Excuse me?
Mr. Foeman: I need a seconder.
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Hernandez, OK. Can you call the roll, please? Yes, it passed
unanimously.
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved its adoption:
i
MOTION NO. 97-446
A MOTION APPROVING, SETTING FORTH AND SUBMITTING TO THE
ELECTORATE A PROPOSED CHARTER AMENDMENT, AMENDING THE
CHARTER OF THE CITY OF MIAMI, FLORIDA, AS AMENDED, KNOWN AS
CHARTER AMENDMENT NO. 1, TO PROVIDE, COMMENCING IN 1997, FOR A
NONVOTING EXECUTIVE MAYOR ELECTED CITYWIDE WHO WILL NOT BE
A MEMBER OF THE CITY COMMISSION, AND FIVE (5) COMMISSIONERS
FROM FIVE (5) DISTRICTS WITH BOUNDARIES DELINEATED BY THE
COMMISSION, AND AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO: (1) EXERCISE VETO
POWER, SUBJECT TO COMMISSION OVERRIDE; (2) APPOINT AND REMOVE
THE CITY MANAGER, SUBJECT TO COMMISSION REVIEW AND OVERRIDE;
(3) APPOINT COMMITTEES; AND (4) DELIVER AN ANNUAL BUDGET
ADDRESS; CALLING AND PROVIDING FOR A SPECIAL MUNICIPAL
ELECTION TO BE HELD SEPTEMBER 4, 1997 FOR THE PURPOSE OF
SUBMITTING CHARTER AMENDMENT NO. 1 TO THE ELECTORATE AT SAID
ELECTION; DESIGNATING AND APPOINTING THE CITY CLERK AS THE
OFFICIAL REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CITY COMMISSION WITH RESPECT TO
THE USE OF VOTER REGISTRATION BOOKS AND RECORDS; FURTHER
DIRECTING THE CITY CLERK TO CAUSE A CERTIFIED COPY OF THE HEREIN
RESOLUTION TO BE DELIVERED TO THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS OF
METROPOLITAN DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA, NOT LESS THAN 45 DAYS PRIOR
TO THE DATE OF SUCH SPECIAL MUNICIPAL ELECTION.
Note for the Record: The City Attorney later stipulated before passing of R 97-447 that
the provision of the proposed Charter Amendment addressing the appointment and
removal of the City Manager should include a reference that said removal shall be
subject to the Commission review and override in the title only and not in the ballot
language.
85 July 3, 1997
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Upon being seconded by Commissioner Hernandez, the motion was passed and adopted
by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Wifredo Gort
Commissioner Humberto Hernandez
Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado
Mayor Joe Carollo
NAYS: None.
ABSENT: None.
7. (A) DISCUSSION REGARDING DEFINITION OF DISTRICT
BOUNDARIES -- SCHEDULE FURTHER DISCUSSION FOR CITY
COMMISSION MEETING OF JULY 10, 1997.
(B) APPROVE LANGUAGE FOR PROPOSED CHAkTER AMENDMENT
PROVIDING FOR EXECUTIVE MAYOR AND A FIVE MEMBER
DISTRICT COMMISSION.
(C) DESIGNATE COASTAL DISTRICT AS DISTRICT - -- DESIGNATE
FLAGAMI DISTRICT AS DISTRICT 4.
Mayor Carollo: Now, we are back to the actual designing of the actual boundaries for the
districts. And, we had four possible choices to study and look at and discuss on the five district
plan. I'll open it now for discussion, comments, statements, questions.
Commissioner Plummer: I... Mr. Mayor, just... My comments, is very shortly. I stated for the
record previously that I still favor the Hernandez plan. We would have to of course change the
numbers to comply with what we just did. I think my district, the coastal district would become
number two and the Flagami district would become number four and how you do the other.
One, three and five could be changing the numbers. But, the numbers would have to be
changed. But, I... my vote is still upon the colored map.
Commissioner Hernandez: Mr. Mayor, it's now seven fifty-four at night. I think we have beat
this thing to death. I have no further comments to make on this.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Hernandez: I would like to make a motion passing on the so called "Hernandez
plan"...
Mayor Carollo: Well...
Commissioner Hernandez: ... to adopt the Hernandez plan. To adopt the Hernandez plan as the
five district plan to proceed for the September 4th election.
Mayor Carollo: If I may, Commissioner, before we get into the areas of motion, if we could get
every member of the Commission to express their preference...
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
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July 3, 1997
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Mayor Carollo: ... for or against different plans, and discussions also from... possibly input from
attorneys?
Commissioner Plummer: Let me conclude, Mr. Mayor, if I may? And, I want it on the record,
the other day, that I asked the Dr. Lichtman, if the Hernandez plan in his opinion would in fact
satisfy the requirements of the federal courts, and he said... his answer was "yes." So, I want that
on the record.
Mayor Carollo: OK. Two Commissioners have expressed themselves. Commissioner...
Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Carollo: Oh, I am sorry.
Commissioner Gort: My understanding, we don't need a precise map today. I would like for an
opportunity, if possible, the people that have been working on this map for a long time, give
them one more shot to look at it, make sure they go over their numbers. And what J.L., had... the
statement that J.L., has made, make sure that they can come back and say "yes, we think it's
legal" and we can go and represent you all in court and testify on your behalf.
Mayor Carollo: Well, not only that. But, at the same time we have to make sure that...
Commissioner Gort: And, by the way, I don't have any problem with the... your plan. I think
it's fine but I think if we can find a way that we can somehow, and I think there might be a way
that they can sit down, look at the numbers how you went about doing your selections and
making the comparison that they used the same system that they have used themselves, and that
they are convinced of the same system so that they can have a motion on it. At the same time, I
think they can look at it and there might be a way where we can still have Wynwood, Edgewater
within the yellow intercoastal line, but at the same time there might be a way we may be able to
connect the north with Overtown. And, this is what I would like to see if possible.
Mayor Carollo: Well, they did that in five three.
Commissioner Hernandez: According to the doctors...
Mayor Carollo: This is the last...
Commissioner Gort: But, I am talking using this... but using this version without changing.
Without any major changes in here.
Mayor Carollo: Well...
Commissioner Hernandez: According to Dr. Lichtman...
Mayor Carollo: You have go to make major changes...
Commissioner Hernandez: Yes.
Mayor Carollo: ... you know, to change that. There is not way of going about it.
Commissioner Hernandez: There is no way according to this... You would have to create a lane
and that would be considered very difficult, if not, I guess, considering gerrymandering or illegal
or what have you. It would have to be a minor deviation or modification of my plan in order to
pass. I...
87 July 3, 1997
Mayor Carollo: You know, I...
Commissioner Plummer: Can I make a suggestion?
Mayor Carollo: I think probably Commissioner Gort is correct in this. You know, we have done
the bulk of what we needed to do. What's left now, is just choosing the boundaries and it might
serve our time to take a little bit more time and bring this back next week so that we could get
whatever additional input we want from different communities as to the different plans and
which out of the four we have for five districts. At best, keep communities together.
Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, I think if you talked to the... My understanding is, the
Commissioner has talked to Professor Lichtman and he doesn't believe there can be any major
changes at all.
Mayor Carollo: Well, there is several things we need to consider too. All four of these plans
have their pluses and their negatives. The one thing though that three of the plans have that one
does not is, that it would be Professor Lichtman who would be the person being called as the
expert witness to testify since he drew them. This one, that would not be the case, and you
know, these are...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, Joe, that's..
Mayor Carollo: ... these are legal areas that we need to consider also.
Commissioner Plummer: That's exactly why I asked the so called expert who would testify, in
his opinion, would this meet the federal criteria test, and his answer was "yes."
Commissioner Gort: He said "yes."
Commissioner Plummer: He said "yes." So, I mean...
Mayor Carollo: Yes, but that doesn't mean that he would necessarily be the person that will be
the person subpoenaed to go and testify because there are other criterias that could be looked
into.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let's go back and...
Mayor Carollo: And, what I am saying is, J.L., that we need to be absolutely sure that out of the
four that we choose, we choose the one that best keeps historical communities together, one and
two. The one that will have the best legal defense.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, look. As far as I am concerned, my only concern is
this. When you take five three, and I don't know where that came from, I don't know who
requested it. But, I want anybody to tell me the commonality between the top and the bottom.
There is no commonality whatsoever. None.
Mayor Carollo: You are saying, five what?
Commissioner Hernandez: Five -three.
Commissioner Plummer: Five -three, OK? There is no commonality whatsoever between those
two.
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July 3, 1997
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Commissioner Gort: J. L.
Mayor Carollo: And, the people of Wynwood and Edgewater want to keep that thing together.
And, if you don't do it with the colored map, then you are going to split it, almost in half.
Commissioner Gort: J.L., all I am saying is, and let me tell you. I think it's a great map. And,
all I am saying is, that I think his office should call those individuals and tell how they went...
how they drew their lines and it might be the same method that they used, and the same system
that they used.
Commissioner Hernandez: That's already been done. What I was trying to tell you is. What the
conclusion was, we had to do one of these two or a minor deviation of my plan for the simple
reason that there is no way that you could connect Overtown to the African -American district on
top without encompassing the Wynwood, Edgewater area. And, I have to agree with
Commissioner Plummer that the problem I have with that is that you are obviously not living up
to the integrity of the Wynwood, Edgewater area by putting it into then the African -American
district. You are splitting it and I think you are kind of messing up with the actual integrity of
that community. Now, he said we talked about leaving that area alone. And, he said that a lane
would not be a defensible issue in court if they create a lane to connect Overtown alone to the
Model City, Little Haiti area. So, I am telling you, according to the conversation I had with him.
If you are looking at my plan, and everybody says it's fine with that plan, you are going to look
at a minor deviation between the Little Haiti area and the area that consists of Wynwood,
Edgewater. You are talking about. maybe a block or two blocks into the Wynwood, Edgewater
area.
Mayor Carollo: Well, I...
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, I don't have a problem in coming back next week. It seems
that there is a... sort of an agreement in looking at that plan and maybe fine tuning it, maybe try
to explain within ourselves. Because we are going to have to go out and defend one of... each of
one of those boundaries. And, we are going to need to know more about why it was done and
why are we doing so. If we can define the boundaries next week, I think it will be best.
Commissioner Gort is right in...
Mayor Carollo: You know, I...
Vice Mayor Regalado: ... not asking but we should know more in order to defend them. Maybe,
if we have questions. And, maybe some fine tuning can give you a half an inch to the right or to
the left of that map.
Mayor Carollo: I agree with both you and Commissioner Gort. I don't think it would hurt
anything at all if we would come back next week to make a final determination on the
boundaries. If anything, I think it would be helpful if we took that extra time. As the City
Attorney has said previously, we do not have to do this tonight. We have the time to come back
with the boundaries next week. So, did Professor Lichtman express his feelings that that would
be right. We have done everything else we needed to today, to have this in the ballot September
4th. And, I agree, I think it would be good and I personally would like to have the extra time in
order to discuss this further with Professor Lichtman and to look closely at four of the different
proposals that we have.
Commissioner Gort: Let me ask a question? Mr. Attorney?
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
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July 3, 1997
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Commissioner Gort: You drafted a language today. In that language you drafted today, can later
on be placed on a specific plan into the language?
Mr. Jones: No. The language you put... The language you passed today, is the language that
it's final. It can't he amended.
Commissioner Plummer: Then what about the district numbers?
Commissioner Gort: [inaudible]
Commissioner Plummer: You are saying that the map would have to comply with the
resolution?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Mayor Carollo: Yes.
! Commissioner Gort: Sure. In fact, the plan has to be five.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, e plan lan has to be the five. All that we would then have to do next week,
Y
is to define the boundaries and to the five districts that we make up, give them a number.
Anything else that we would have to do then?
Mr. Jones: No. One, quick thing...
Unidentified Speaker: Joe.
Mr. Jones: Go ahead and tell him.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I just want to remind all of you that are going to be in
town, tomorrow, all day at Bay Front Park, 4th of July celebration. We hope each and everyone
of you have the opportunity to come down and enjoy your festivities.
Mayor Carollo: Yes, the one thing that we do need to do is make an amendment to the
resolution that we just passed where we need to define just a number of districts that will be only
for two years. The first time around, initially. The district that initially will only be for two
years. We stated that one three and five, the odd numbers will be the three that will be running.
And, all that we need to do is just decide which of those numbers we want to make the one for
two years. Will again be able to assign whatever number we want to whatever district we want.
So, that won't represent a problem.
Commissioner Plummer: That's why I was hoping to get this done tonight.
Mayor Carollo: Well, it don't matter because all we have to do is just pick a number that will be
the one that will be for the two year initial election. And, that number we could put anywhere
we want to.
Commissioner Gort: It doesn't have to be...?
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you have got... That's why, you know...
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Gort: That has to be...
90 July 3, 1997
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Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: You are leaving it up in the air.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, we just have to make an amendment to that. It's not up in the air, J.L.
It's just...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, how are you going to choose, Joe?
Mayor Carollo: When we come back, we choose. Once we make the five districts that... and the
boundaries for the five districts. We already stated that the even numbers would not be ones
running. You and Commissioner Regalado...
Commissioner Plummer: I understand that.
Mayor Carollo: ... will be in even numbers. Out of the other three, we decide which one we
want to make, the one that's for two years. That would have to run again in two years. And,
whichever one that is, then we give the number that we chose today. I mean, this is not
complicated at all. It's quite simple.
Commissioner Plummer: I... It's not complicated but it's going to be a tough decision to make.
OK.
Mayor Carollo: Not at all.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, Hey.
Mayor Carollo: In fact, all of the numbers that have been assigned in all these four plans that we
are looking at, they just picked the numbers at random. So, I mean we could give each district
whatever number we want to.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Except from the two and four, right?
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Yes, except for the two... Well, no. Except, we already made clear
verbally that...
Mr. Maxwell: One, three or five.
Mr. Jones: One, three or five.
Mayor Carollo: ... two even numbers will go to whatever districts Commissioner Plummer is in
and whatever district you are in.
Commissioner Gort: All we need to change two to one and that's it? [phonetic]
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Gort: And, three to four. [phonetic]
Mayor Carollo: OK, well, you want to choose then that district one will be the one that will be
for an initial two years?
Commissioner Plummer: Hey, let's put the cards on the table, OK? If you choose the Black
new seat, as the two year term, you are going to hear screaming bloody murder.
91 July 3, 1997
Commissioner Plummer: Now, that's why I said, it's going to be a damn, tough decision. Now,
I don't know whether you can take and put three ping pong balls in a coffee can...
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, frankly, I don't see what difference it will be because what's
important is, that there will be districts assigned as we described it, it will be assigned. And,
there will be an African -American representative in one district for sure.
Commissioner Plummer: I understand that.
Mayor Carollo: So, whether initially that individual will run for two years or for four, is not a
problem to accomplish what we stated that we were going to accomplish. But, you know, if we
want to make difficult something that shouldn't be difficult. Well, you know, we certainly could
do that.
Commissioner Plummer: No, I am not trying to make it difficult.
Mayor Carollo: All that I am trying to choose is a number. And, I heard the number to be used.
I have no problem in using one. Then, that one could he placed like the other numbers anywhere
in the districts that we want.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, if you are just choosing a number without designating where
that number is going to go...
Mayor Carollo: That's all we are doing. That's all we are doing.
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, Oh. OK. So, that's no problem. That's no problem.
Mayor Carollo: OK. So, we are going to amend then the resolution that was passed to give the
district number one to the district that will have an initial two year term before it then begins
having its regular four year term. Is there a motion for that, the maker of the motion? Is that
amendment acceptable to you?
Commissioner Plummer: I have no problem with that, using number one as that designate.
Mayor Carollo: OK. The seconder of the motion.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Second. Second.
Mayor Carollo: OK, can you call the roll call on that amendment?
92 July 3, 1997
The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved its adoption:
RESOLUTION NO. 97-447
A RESOLUTION, WITH ATTACHMENTS, APPROVING, SETTING FORTH AND
SUBMITTING TO THE ELECTORATE A PROPOSED CHARTER AMENDMENT,
AMENDING THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF MIAMI, FLORIDA, AS AMENDED,
KNOWN AS CHARTER AMENDMENT NO. 1, TO PROVIDE, COMMENCING IN
NOVEMBER, 1997, FOR A NONVOTING EXECUTIVE MAYOR ELECTED
CITYWIDE WHO WILL NOT BE A MEMBER OF THE CITY COMMISSION, AND
FIVE (5) COMMISSIONERS FROM FIVE (5) DISTRICTS WITH BOUNDARIES
DELINEATED BY THE COMMISSION, AND AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO: (1)
EXERCISE VETO POWER, SUBJECT TO COMMISSION OVERRIDE; (32)
APPOINT AND REMOVE THE CITY MANAGER, SUBJECT TO COMMISSION
REVIEW AND VETO OVERRIDE; (3) APPOINT COMMITTEES; AND (4)
DELIVER AN ANNUAL BUDGET ADDRESS; MORE PARTICULARLY BY
AMENDING SECTIONS 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, 15, 16, 21 AND 42 OF SAID
CHARTER; CALLING AND PROVIDING FOR A SPECIAL MUNICIPAL
ELECTION TO BE HELD THE 4TH DAY OF SEPTEMBER, 1997, FOR THE
PURPOSE OF SUBMITTING CHARTER AMENDMENT NO. 1 TO THE
ELECTORATE AT SAID ELECTION; DESIGNATING AND APPOINTING THE
CITY CLERK AS THE OFFICIAL REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CITY
COMMISSION WITH RESPECT TO THE USE OF VOTER REGISTRATION BOOKS
AND RECORDS; FURTHER DIRECTING THE CITY CLERK TO CAUSE A
CERTIFIED COPY OF THE HEREIN RESOLUTION TO BE DELIVERED TO THE
SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS OF METROPOLITAN DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA,
NOT LESS THAN 45 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF SUCH SPECIAL
MUNICIPAL ELECTION.
(Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on file in the Office of the City
Clerk.)
Upon being seconded by Vice Mayor Regalado, the resolution was passed and adopted
by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Wifredo Gort
Commissioner Humberto Hernandez
Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado
Mayor Joe Carollo
NAYS: None.
ABSENT: None.
Commissioner Plummer: Now, I'll make a motion. Let's make them all. I'll now make a
motion that regardless of which map is chosen that the coastal zone shall be known as District II.
And, the Flagami, Little Havana shall be known as District IV. I'll so move.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Second.
Mayor Carollo: There is a motion and there is a second. All in favor, signify by saying "aye."
93 July 3, 1997
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The Commission (Collectively): Aye.
Commissioner Plummer: That clarifies that.
Mayor Carollo: Can this be brought up. We meet on Thursday?
Commissioner Plummer: Thursday.
Mayor Carollo: Let's bring it up Thursday, then.
Commissioner Gort: Eight o'clock in the morning?
Mayor Carollo: Do you want to meet a little earlier or...?
Commissioner Plummer: Seven o'clock is fine with me.
Mayor Carollo: He wants to kill the fish before they come out to roost.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no. no. The fish has got to roost. Don't... If you come down
tomorrow, I'll barbecue your fish.
Commissioner Gort: The chicken has got to roost in the bay.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, we'll bring this up at the regular Commission meeting on Thursday, at the
regular time.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me understand this. We leave here this evening, the only
thing that we have left undone is the map.
Mr. Jones: That's correct.
Mayor Carollo: That's correct the boundaries.
Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: And, assigning the actual numbers to the rest of the districts.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. I just want to go and I am not trying to... Mr. City Attorney,
don't misunderstand. I want to make sure that everything in this new document of resolution is
the same as what we were presented with this morning except for the matter of that which was
underlined.
Mr. Jones: That's correct.
94
July 3, 1997
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 96-448
A MOTION DESIGNATING DISTRICT NUMBERS FOR CERTAIN CITY OF
MIAMI COMMISSION DISTRICTS AS FOLLOWS: THE COASTAL DISTRICT
SHALL BE DISTRICT NO. 2, THE FLAGAMI DISTRICT SHALL BE DISTRICT
NO. 4; FURTHER DEFERRING THE DESIGNATION OF THE REMAINING
DISTRICTS NUMBERS 1, 3, AND 5 TO THE COMMISSION MEETING
PRESENTLY SCHEDULED FOR JULY 10, 1997.
Upon being seconded by Vice Mayor Regalado, the motion was passed and adopted by
the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Wifredo Gort
Commissioner Humberto Hernandez
Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado
Mayor Joe Carollo
NAYS: None.
ABSENT: None.
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you.
Mayor Carollo: All right, this meeting is adjourned. Have a nice 4th of July.
THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE CITY
COMMISSION, THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 8:13 P.M.
ATTEST:
Walter J. Foeman
CITY CLERK
Maria J. Argudin
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
JOE CAROLLO
MAYOR
(SEAL)
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July 3, 1997