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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1997-07-01 Minutes1%11 A M 11 1 OF 1 0 0111�4 almom I INcomil llt%T S P ECIAL C.O M MISSION 14 1 N U T E. S OF METING HELD ON ' IULI 1, 1997 PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK CITY HALL WALTER FOEMAN CITY CLERK A 04 INDEX MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING July 1, 1997 ITEM SUBJECT LEGISLATION PAGE NO. NO. 1. DISCUSSION CONCERNING SINGLE DISCUSSION MEMBER DISTRICT MAPS USING CENSUS 7/1/97 TRACT DATA VERSUS BLOCK DATA -- PRESENTATION BY CONSULTANT REGARDING 5 - MEMBER AND 6-MEMBER DISTRICT MAPS -- PUBLIC HEARING -- FURTHER DISCUSSION CONCERNING STAGGERED TERMS / PRECINCT CHANGES AND VOTERS NOTIFICATIONS / ACCURACY OF VOTER REGISTRATION DATA / COST OF EXPANDING CITY COMMISSION / LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICT PROPOSAL / DELINEATION OF POWERS OF EXECUTIVE MAYOR -- DIRECT ADMINISTRATION TO REVIEW FEASIBILITY OF INSTALLING SCREEN BEHIND DAIS IN THE CHAMBER FOR PUBLIC VIEWING. 2. SCHEDULE SPECIAL COMMISSION M 97-443 MEETING FOR JULY 3, 1997 AT 7:A.M. -- 7/1/97 FURTHER INSTRUCTING DEMOGRAPHIC CONSULTANTS TO PREPARE 7-MEMBER DISTRICT PROPOSAL. 3. DIRECT CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE R 97-444 CHARTER AMENDMENT BALLOT QUESTION 7/1/97 FOR DISTRICT ELECTIONS AND EXECUTIVE MAYOR -- PROVIDE CITY COMMISSION WITH REPORT OUTLINING RESPONSIBILITIES OF DADE COUNTY'S EXECUTIVE MAYOR -- DRAFT STRONG MAYOR DOCUMENTS USING DADE COUNTY AS MODEL -- DRAFT CONCISE BALLOT QUESTION. 2-60 C:1L�a:�J 65-69 .(si 4 wS1.4 i. MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA On the 1st day of July, 1997, the City Commission of Miami, Florida, met at its regular meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami, Florida in regular session. The meeting was called to order at 7:13 a.m. by Mayor Joe Carollo with the following members of the Commission found to be present: ALSO PRESENT: ABSENT: Mayor Joe Carollo Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado Commissioner J. L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Wifredo Gort Aaron Weeks, Chief -of -Staff A. Quinn Jones, III, City Attorney Walter J. Foeman, City Clerk Maria J. Argudin, Assistant City Clerk Edward Marquez, City Manager Commissioner Humberto Hernandez An invocation was delivered by Reverend Henry Nevin, after which Commissioner Plummer then led those present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, just to make an announcement that I made to you, and that is due to the fact that I must attend a funeral this morning I will have to leave these chambers no later than eight thirty this morning, but I will be available to be back at eleven, for the rest of the day, but I must leave at eight thirty. Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Commissioner. If we need to, then we will stop at eight thirty and reconvene then at eleven. Commissioner Plummer: Thank you, sir. NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Commissioner Plummer announced he had to leave at 8:30 a.m. and would return at 11:00 a.m. 1 July 1, 1997 ,�Vq) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. DISCUSSION CONCERNING SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICT MAPS USING CENSUS TRACT DATA VERSUS BLOCK DATA -- PRESENTATION BY CONSULTANT REGARDING 5 - MEMBER AND 6-MEMBER DISTRICT MAPS -- PUBLIC HEARING -- FURTHER DISCUSSION CONCERNING STAGGERED TERMS / PRECINCT CHANGES AND VOTERS NOTIFICATIONS / ACCURACY OF VOTER REGISTRATION DATA / COST OF EXPANDING CITY COMMISSION / LEGAL REQUIREMENTS OF SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICT PROPOSAL / DELINEATION OF POWERS OF EXECUTIVE MAYOR -- DIRECT ADMINISTRATION TO REVIEW FEASIBILITY OF INSTALLING SCREEN BEHIND DAIS IN THE CHAMBER FOR PUBLIC VIEWING. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mayor Carollo: We had asked for on Saturday morning for new redistricting plans that would comprise of additional districts of six and fours using the census tracks, along with additional districts for five using the census tracks and not using the census tracks. To the best of my knowledge, all of us received copies of the new redistricting plans yesterday afternoon sometime. Is the professor that we hired to help us along in drawing these maps present this morning, Commissioner Gort. Commissioner Gort: Yeah, Professor Allan Lichtman is here. And, I have asked him for the sake and the benefit of everyone. And, Mr. Mayor, if you don't mind, to go through the whole procedure that we went through and the reasons why. Professor Lichtman. Dr. Allan Lichtman: Commissioner, would you like me to speak from here? Mayor Carollo: That will be sufficient, yes. Thank you. Dr. Lichtman: Morning, Mr. Commissioners, public. Thank you very much for inviting me here to speak to you about the process whereby plans were drawn and to briefly go over the specific plans that at the request of the Blue Ribbon Committee and this Commission were drawn by myself and Dr. Rudolph Wilson of Norfolk State University. The process by which we drew plans was in an effort to draw plans that conformed as closely as possible to neighborhood groupings within the City of Miami and of course in this sense both Dr. Wilson and myself are outsiders. We are not conversant with the ins and outs of the City itself from personal experience. So, we relied upon objective information in looking at the neighborhoods and in looking at socioeconomic commonalities in terms of the ways in which we drew the districts. In addition, although we did not draw districts on this basis, we also once we drew the districts looked at the ethnic and racial breakdowns of those districts in terms of the three major groupings within the City of Miami, Anglos, Hispanics and African -Americans because any plan must conform to the Voting Rights Act which requires that groups have equal opportunities to elect candidates of their choice. And, of course the community would like to consider the opportunities of various ethnic and racial groups within the City. But, the plan was not drawn on the basis of race or on the basis of electorbility, but rather on our outside objective look at the neighborhood maps and the socioeconomic maps and were modified somewhat by public input at the public hearings. Also, of course, any map drawn for the City of Miami as is true of any map drawn for any jurisdiction in the United States, be it County, State, City or the United States Congress as well must conform to the basic principles of one person one vote as laid down by the United States Supreme Court and for a local districting plan like this one, the rough "rule of thumb" that we used was a maximum deviation from the average of ten percent. That is, you 2 July 1, 1997 R could go five percent above or five percent below but we tried not to go beyond those basic guidelines which have been laid down by the court. So, those are the fundamental principles. Neighborhood maps, socioeconomic commonalities and of course conformity with one person one vote. We also in looking at the City of Miami basically laid out maps with two different configurations. One configuration which was the configuration recommended ultimately by the Blue Ribbon Committee was to create one district which essentially united the coastal communities. If we have a map. Another basic concept was in essence to divide the coastal communities and create districts that run east to west as opposed to a north to south district. If I can illustrate that with the map with the communities on it. While he is doing that, let me also stress that any redistricting plan is a process. That, while we develop certain basic concepts and laid out certain basic lines, these lines are not at this point etched in stone. Obviously, there is tremendous expertise on this Commission that we do not have and certainly while we present these as illustrative maps, we are not in any way presenting these as final maps. And, even if the Commission decides to basically adopt one of the configurations that we have set forth in response to your request and the committee's request, certainly any of the individual lines, provided you stay within one person one vote and the basic community patterns can be modified and in fact, we have already modified some lines in response to input from the community. So, again, this is a process and the process is by no means complete. It is also my understanding that there is currently within -- here we go -- one basic concept was to unite the upper east side, parts of Wynwood, Edgewater, downtown, piece of Coral Way and the Coconut Groves, to basically create a district that unites the coastal communities, and when you come out with the demographics it ultimately turns out to be the district that has the most substantial Anglo population with it. The four district plan and the six district plan that were recommended by the Blue Ribbon Committee both have an Anglo district that runs along the coast, as do the five one, the plans with five districts that we just recently produced in response to the Commission request. The basic concept behind this was that there you can preserve several of the communities in tact by creating a coastal district and also when you look at the socioeconomics, the Coconut Grove areas have much in common with the upper east side and they are preserved within a single district. It is also my understanding that there are two ways in which any map can be adopted by the City or any plan rather. One, of course is through submission to the voters, the other of course is through submission through the courts. It is possible if all parties agree to have a court ordered plan just as it is possible to have a plan adopted by the voters. If the plan is adopted by the voters, any plan, no matter what it is, is still subject to judicial scrutiny. Simple because a plan is adopted by the voters that does not exempt the plan from judicial scrutiny. Any plan is still open to scrutiny either under the existing lawsuit or possibly other judicial proceedings. With these preliminaries then out of the way, let me briefly go through some of the plans that were put forth by myself and Dr. Wilson in response. And, all the plans we developed were in response to requests by the Blue Ribbon Committee and by this Commission. We did not on our own initiative come up with any individual plans. Rather, we were at all times responding to the community, the committee and the Commission. The most recent plans that we drew, were plans incorporating five, single member districts within the City of Miami. And, the only difference between the two five district plans that we drew was one plan was based on census blocks which is the smallest unit of census geography. Another plan was based upon census tracts which combine a number of blocks into a larger unit of census geography. Other than that distinction which results in some small differences on the map and some small differences in the statistics that accompany the map, the basic concept behind the two five district plans are fundamentally the same. Do we have the five district there? Unidentified Speaker: I can't see the map, you are in front of it. Dr. Lichtman: Oh, you want me to move? Unidentified Speaker: Turn the map a little closer to me. (phonetic) K July 1, 1997 46A [At 7:19 a.m. Commissioner Hernandez entered the Commission chamber.] J Commissioner Plummer: You know, Mr. Mayor, one of the things we miss here and I think we ought to consider at the County, they have a television screen up here. No, that's... No, don't laugh that's what they have and the people in the audience can look up into the screen and see exactly what we are seeing. I think we ought to consider. Mayor Carollo: Yeah, well, that's something to keep up for the future. Dr. Lichtman: Can everybody see this map, now that I have kind of scrunched to the side a bit. This is, it's called Plan 5-2, which has no particular significance to it other than a label. It is a five district plan using census tracts, the larger unit of census geography. And, as you can see, as in other plans that we developed, it has a coastal district including the Groves, much of Downtown, a piece of Wynwood/Edgewater, the upper east side and part of the Little Haiti community. It has an additional district based squarely on the communities of Model City and Little Haiti and coming down to pick up much of the Overtown area and part of the downtown. It has another district which incorporates all of Flagami and part of West Little Havana. Another district which is Allapattah and part of East Little Havana and a fifth district based primarily on the Coral Way area with part of the East Little Havana included. As, I said, these lines in terms of the five district plan are illustrative in response to the Commission or the community they certainly can be adjusted. But, I think the basic pattern of the districting here is clear. The coastal district, the Model City and Little Haiti district, Flagami, Coral Way and Allapattah. In terms of the statistics of this plan, it preserves the one person, one vote principle. It is well within the plus and minus five. In fact, the largest district is only about two percent overpopulated and the smallest district is only about two percent underpopulated. So, while we have ten points to work with, in fact the deviations are only about four points. In terms of how this map breaks down with respect to the ethnic and racial groups within the City, this district based on Model City and Little Haiti is district number one. You can follow along on the handout we have. If you look at district number one, you can see in terns of its population it is a heavy majority African -American district with an African -American percentage in terms of the voting age population of seventy-nine percent. District two, in the five district plan is a mixed district. In terms of the voting age population, it is about equally divided between Anglos at about thirty-six percent, Hispanics of about thirty-six percent and African -Americans at about twenty-seven percent. Of course, if one looked at citizen population it would be a more substantial Anglo and African -American district with a pluarlity a substantial pluarlity Anglo in terms of the citizen population because of the adjustments in citizenship that one would make for the Hispanic population. Then we have districts three, four and five in the Hispanic communities. All of which are very substantial Hispanic districts. Whether in terms of voting age population or in terms of the citizen population, these are all very substantial majority Hispanic districts. So, this plan does provide opportunities for different ethnic and racial groups within the City to elect candidates of their choice. I will quickly go through plan 5-1, which is the same basic plan with very similar statistics, slightly different. It's based upon the census block. You can see again, you have a coastal district, Model City and Little Haiti, Allapattah, Flagami and West Little Havana, Coral Way and parts of East Little Havana. The same basic concept. It does come out a little bit because you can do that with blocks to put all of the Overtown community in District 1. And, again in terms of the demographics of the district, it's within the ten percent deviation. It creates one substantial African -American majority district. The second district is a little bit more Anglo than it was on the 5-2, thirty-seven percent Anglo, thirty percent African -American and thirty-one percent Hispanic. And, again Districts III, IV, and V are all very heavily Hispanic districts whether based upon voting age population or citizen voting age population. We will now go through some of the other configurations. The committee recommended a six and a four district configuration. And, this five is kind of a compromise between the two as you will see in a moment. And, we will also, which we drew based on blocks, we were also asked to draw them based on tract. So, 1-think we have plan 6-3, 4 July 1, 1997 4177 which is the sixth district configuration based upon tracts. So, it has one additional district above the five district plan. Again, you have the coastal district keeping in tact the Groves and upper east side. You have a district based on much of little Haiti. A district substantially based upon Model City. Again, a district based upon Flagami with part of West Little Havana. A Coral Way district with parts of East Little Havana and a district based upon Allapattah and also part of East Little Havana. If you look at the.... again, this was drawn based on the neighborhoods and the socioeconomics. When you look at it in terms of the breakdown of the populations there is District I, which is substantial majority African -American at 65 percent. District II which is likewise a majority African -American at fifty-one percent and would be much larger in terms of citizen population, because the next substantial demographic group is the Hispanic group at forty-one. We then have the coastal district which has under the five district configuration is a mixed district, but would be plurality Anglo in terms of the citizen population, and then again, three very heavily Hispanic districts. So, that's plan 6-3, which is a modified version of the original six district plan that we submitted in this case using tracts. We also developed a four district plan using census tracts which is a modification of the original plan that we developed using blocks. And, now we are down to four districts. Unidentified Speaker: [inaudible -- speaker is off the microphone] Mayor Carollo: Excuse me, sir, I am sorry. It's not open right now for the public. If, when we get to that point, we will advise you of it. Well... Unidentified Speaker: (inaudible -- speaker is off the microphone) Mayor Carollo: Sir, once we get to that point, you know, we will let you ask your questions. But, we need to proceed with this in an orderly fashion. Dr. Lichtman: Shall I continue, Mr. Mayor? Mayor Carollo: Yes, please. Dr. Lichtman: Thank you. Again, all these maps have the same fundamental configuration except obviously they differ in terms of the numbers of districts and the populations. There is a coastal district here, in the four district plan. A district based on Model City and Little Haiti. A district that includes Flagami, much of Allapattah, part of West Little Havana and again, the district with Coral Way and part of the Havanas. In terms of the demographic breakdown, the coastal district is slightly majority Hispanic, fifty one point five, thirty-one percent Anglo and sixteen percent Black. The district based on Little Haiti and Model City is substantial African - American at seventy-five percent and the districts based on Flagami and Coral Way are both substantial Hispanic at close to ninety percent as in the other plan. So that's a four district plan with a coastal district, a district based on Model City and Little Haiti, Flagami area moving eastward and the Coral Way area. So, those are the basic configurations, the five, the four and the six district plan. I will also briefly put up the original six district plans that we submitted. District Plan 6-2C is a slightly modified version based upon the public hearings of our original six district plan, based upon... This was drawn based upon blocks not drawn based upon census tracts but you can see, you get the same basic configurations that we just looked at in our six district plan. I am not going to go over it all again. It is fundamentally the same except in District number three, you now have a smaller Hispanic population and a larger Anglo population. This district is pretty evenly divided between Anglos and Hispanics. In terms of population, it would be a substantial plurality Anglo district in terms of citizen population. We then next... I think we will pass on 6-213, or just quickly look at it. This was the original -- 6-213 was almost the same except we slightly modified it to include more of the Overtown area in the district based on Little Haiti. We then had our original four district plan, which was Plan 4-2, and I am not going to spend a lot of time with this plan either. It's very similar to the one we just 5 July 1, 1997 L went over which was four districts based on tracts. This is four districts based upon blocks and it comes out with a very similar configuration and a very similar set of demographics. In addition, although they were not recommended by the committee, we had a four district plan and six district plan that cut the coast and had districts running east west. These were labelled plans 6-1 and 4-1. You can see its got quite a different configuration form the four district plan where the coastal district, this plan divides the coast in half and in terms of the major differences between this and the coastal plan for four districts, it does not create any district without substantial and Anglo representation as does the four district plan that creates a coastal district. And, we also have a 6-1, which you can see divides the coast into three portions and again does not create any single district that is as substantially Anglo as the plan which unites the Groves and the upper eastside in a single coastal district. Finally, although it was not recommended by the committee j we also produced a couple of cluster plans which created larger districts within the City. We created a two cluster plan and a three cluster plan, if there would be any consideration of clustering smaller districts within larger districts. This is the two cluster plan and essentially divides the City in half creating district two, which in its demographics is very substantially Hispanic. And, District I, which is essentially divided between African -Americans and Hispanics in terms of population, but would be plurality African -American in terms of citizen population. And, finally, we developed a three cluster plan, which in essence divides the City into three pieces creating two fairly substantial Hispanic districts at sixty-five percent or over, Districts II and III, and one substantial African -American district at about sixty percent. So, as you can see, we have been busy. Developed quite a few alternatives in response to both what the committee asked us to do and what this Commission asked us to do. Again, to recapitulate, all of these maps were drawn based on neighborhoods, socioeconomics, input from the community that the basic configuration that came out a committee was a four district plan with a coastal district, a six district plan with a coastal district. In addition to that, at the request of the Commission we created a five district plan which kind of blends the four and the six. And, obviously, whichever plan is adopted in addition, decisions have to be made about the election of a Mayor and a five district plan with an odd number as oppose to a four or six district plan would likely create some differences with respect to how the Mayor would be treated. And, again, none of these plans are set in stone. None of these plans in there are fine, details need to be adopted in terms of any language that the Commission decides today or at subsequent meeting to put on the ballot and modifications are always possible. I think that completes my pretty formal presentation. I am happy to respond to any Commission questions. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Vice Mayor. I would like to recognize Commissioner Burke is here. Representative Meek and School Board member Manti Sabates. We also have Representative Bush here, also. Vice Mayor Regalado: Well... Any questions? I have a question. To you knowledge has a plan been approved by the voters and then challenged in court? Dr. Lichtman: Oh, yes, that happens all the time. In essence all plans get approved by the voters, you know, at one point or another. That does not in any way stop a plan from being challenged in the court. And, they could be challenged on a number of different basis. They can be challenged on a Voting Rights basis, in terms of the Voting Rights Act. They could be challenged constitutionally in terms of their opportunities for minorities within the City. They could be challenged on one person, one vote. And, there is a new doctrine which has been developed over the last four years by the Supreme Court, which briefly put, it gets complicated, says you cannot draw plans predominantly based upon race. A plan could be challenged on that basis as well. Mayor Carollo: If I may acknowledge State Representative Meek that's here with us. Thank you, very much for joining us this morning and Commissioner Burke from Dade County government. Thank you for being here this morning. We also have School Board member Manti Sabates Morse is also here with us. And, I don't believe... 6 July 1, 1997 visvAf Commissioner Plummer: State Rep. Mayor Carollo: State Representative Bush just came in, also. Thank you, again for joining us this morning. Dr. Lichtman: I am happy to respond to any other questions from the Commission. Commissioner Hernandez: Doctor, what's the relevance of voting... using voting age population in your studies. Dr. Lichtman: Of course the deviations are based upon total population... Commissioner Hernandez: Right. Dr. Lichtman: And, you could stick to that. The only advantage of going to voting age population it's just a... it's a derivative of the total population is that those... that represents those groups potentially able to cast ballots in an upcoming election. But, the deviations are based upon the total population. Mayor Carollo: Let me ask a question of you right now, but I am going to need you right there of Mr. Leahy that is in the corner. Thank you for also joining us this morning, Mr. Leahy. If you could come up for a minute please, to the mike. How many hours would you imagine that it would take you to give us the actual voting percentages on some of the districts that he has drawn? Mr. David Leahy: It would probably take a couple days to come with actual registered voters on the different plans. And... Mayor Carollo: OK, at most, a couple of days it will take you? Mr. Leahy: ... those probably, even at that would be guess work. It wouldn't be exact figures because we don't have the ability to... We would have to actually divide the population through the computer system, which we won't have time to do, but we could come up with a pretty accurate guesses in a couple of days for the various plans. Mayor Carollo: OK, very good. Thank you, sir. Go ahead. Dr. Lichtman: I am at your disposal for any other questions. Commissioner Plummer: David, what is the actual... your latest count of voters in the City? Mr. Leahy: That I didn't bring with me, Commissioner. I think we are probably about one hundred and twenty-five, one hundred and thirty-five thousand. Dr. Lichtman: We have it right here. We did bring it. It's very, very good, David. One hundred and thirty-five thousand four seventy as of November... Commissioner Plummer: One thirty-five? Dr. Lichtman: One thirty-five four seven zero as of November of 1996, which would be of course a high point of registration because of the presidential election. Vice Mayor Regalado: Well, but David, remember that we had had about two different ceremonies for citizenship and as of June, as of May 31st, I think that you closed the books with 7 July 1, 1997 a higher... and not higher percentages of voters, but because you took some of the voters off the lists, some moved and then new voters came in. So, I think that would change somehow the numbers and the different areas in terms of ethnicity. Commissioner Plummer: It's probably more. Vice Mayor Regalado: Is that correct? Mr. Leahy: That's correct, Commissioner. We are always gaining new registered voters and you are right there are citizenship hearings going on and a lot of those people do register to vote. We are also doing file maintenance this year which we are required to do by law, and that's a two-step process. First, we are required to move people whose address has been changed with the Post Office. Actually, move those voters into their new precincts and we have already done that process. We are in our second phase and that is, where people have moved out of Dade County by their Post Office, change of address, we are required to notify those people and probably in another twenty-five days we will be removing those people from the active rolls. So, it's a lot of fluctuation going on with the rolls, but we are probably one hundred and thirty-five thousand, one hundred and forty thousand registered voters total for the City of Miami. Vice Mayor Regalado: No, no, no. I know that. But, what I am saying is that we have seen a lot of changes within that number in terms of the different communities. Mr. Leahy: Absolutely. Your Hispanic registered voters continues to climb whereas your Anglo registered seems to decline throughout the City and Dade County as a whole. Vice Mayor Regalado: David, I know how your department works and it does very well. I worked with you many times and... How long will it take for you to change all the precincts, have the voting cards in the hands of the voters and have the possibility of absentee ballots ready for an election? Mr. Leahy: In my opinion, there is not time enough between potential September 4th and approval of a plan and November 4th to actually create new precincts. What we would recommend is to actually where district lines split precincts to create two groups. Have everybody go to the same precinct, but people would be voting on different ballots within the precincts. We looked at the two new five plans and there is approximately ten to fifteen precincts that are split, would be split by district lines. And what we would have to do is to create two groups within the precinct, identify which people are in this district and which people are in this district. We would have to create separate precinct registers so it would be a list of those people that could vote in this district and a list that could vote in this district. And, that would probably take two months for us to accomplish which is durable. We would have to begin... I mean, if you adopted a plan this week, we would have to begin now, even prior to approval by the electorate. But, it is possible to divide that and to conduct the November election with the new districts. Commissioner Hernandez: What is the cost to notification of the voters, of each voter? Mr. Leahy: Well, let me say that the cost to accomplish just dividing the districts and being able to produce precinct registers in those splits would cost about fifty to sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) just to do that work. My guess is, at that point, you would have to at least notify the voters in the split precincts as to which district they belong. So, when they go to the polls in November, they would know which precinct register to vote in. And, I don't know how many people would be affected in the split, so I don't know the cost of the mailing. But, the cost of just getting us to the point where we could do the mailing is about fifty to sixty thousand dollars ($60,000). 8 July 1, 1997 Vice Mayor Regalado: Would you be paying that or us? Mr. Leahy: This would be something, I believe the City would be responsible for doing. Commissioner Plummer: You don't think he is going to say he is going to pay for it, do you? Vice Mayor Regalado: I knew that. Commissioner Plummer: He is not going to volunteer, I mean, you know. Vice Mayor Regalado: I knew that. Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask a question, if I may? How does this affect, for example as I brought up the other day, where we are seeing today people, for example, living in Bay Heights, have to' cross and go right by a voting precinct at the museum to vote at the school on 12th Street and Miami Avenue. Now, is that into your configuration of time? Because, you know, not only do we get a lot of angry calls about people who can't vote where they always voted, but now they are having to pass one precinct and unfortunately go to one that has no parking around it, and how does that come into the configuration, if any? Mr. Leahy: Changing polling places is not a major accomplishment. It's just identifying where people would vote in a preferred precinct and then sending out new registration cards. That can be accomplished very easily. That would not have any effect on the redistricting process. Mayor Carollo: Any further questions from the Commission for Mr. Leahy? OK, any further questions from members of the Commission... Commissioner Plummer: Not right now. Dr. Lichtman: OK, you want me to stand by for...? Mayor Carollo: If you would, please, just in case? Dr. Lichtman: Yeah. Commissioner Hernandez: Doctor, I am going to bring a map out and I want you to follow what we were able to come about with last night. I have one distinct advantage over you, that's, I was born and raised here, so I know the community just a little bit better as the chemistry... Dr. Lichtman: I'll certainly see to that. Commissioner Hernandez: ... of the different communities and neighborhoods in the City. So, I am going to call someone from my staff that's got the map back there to bring it out. Mayor Carollo: Let me clarify what we are doing when we had met the previous time, I clarified for all the members of the Commission that we could discuss any map that had been previously presented to us or any new deviation that any member of this Commission wanted to bring up. What I made clear was that what this vote was committed to, like I understood we all were, was to place a vote on the ballot September the 4th of a plan. And, therefore, I feel that it would be appropriate for all the members of this Commission to air any possible plan that they would like to before we would make a final vote, whether today or later this week, I do not know that. But, we will make a final vote on choosing a plan that will be placed on the ballot. Go ahead, Commissioner. 9 July 1, 1997 Commissioner Hernandez: Doctor.,. Let me give you one of these. Mayor Carollo: Is this a five plan, Commissioner? Commissioner Hernandez: A five plan. Mayor Carollo: OK. Commissioner Hernandez: We went strictly on the census tract theory of going about this protecting obviously, the one Mayor, the one vote. The situation is going on round figures when we look at approximately 358,000 voters that we have in this total population in the City of Miami. We divide that by five, we get approximately in round figures 72,000 per district. I am going to try to make it as simple as possible. Divide that by five, Hispanics would get three districts, African -Americans would get one district which is the one on the upper, the pink. Then, you would have the coastal district which is the yellow. Now, when you divide this number by five, like I said, you have three Hispanic districts within the 72,000 that we are looking at in population. One African -American district, the African -American population then has a surplus of approximately 16,000 voters and then you have the Anglo-Saxon total population which does not reach 72,000. It reaches approximately in round figures 44,000. In order to preserve an Anglo-Saxon seat or help an Anglo possibly obtain or preserve their seat, that would be the coastal seat, which is the predominantly yellow, that's district number one, wherein the surplus of the African -American seats would go into that district number one when you... You follow what I am saying? Dr. Lichtman: I follow you completely. Commissioner Hernandez: That is the... Basically, I think in simple terms that we go about it using census tract and that is purely, when you look at the map in front of you, that's what you have in front... You have the breakdowns in the third page of my booklet here. Using the plus or minus variations of five percent, we looked at District V, which is the green, which is a Hispanic seat and the possibility from taking from District III, the orange district... the possibility of taking 5,000 voters which would be one of the blocks on your left side. Look at the orange district. One of those blocks on the top, right there and passing it on to the green district so District V would be within that 72,000 population realm and District III would still remain in the 70,000 range. I just did not want to actually destroy the configuration or the use of the actual census tract so we maintained that line to not destroy the census tract theory. Dr. Lichtman: I hear you. Right, because you do have a substantial deviation now between three, which is 75,460 and five which is 68,652. Commissioner Hernandez: Even though they both fall within the plus or minus five percent. Dr. Lichtman: You want me to comment on the map or...? Commissioner Hernandez: No. You could comment. I am just telling you so you could understand where we were coming from. Dr. Lichtman: I hear you. Commissioner Hernandez: I think when you break down, and we were looking until late last night is, breaking down the City of Miami by census tract to protect the different communities and the different neighborhoods of the City of Miami. And, again, strictly using census tract figures this is what we came up with. You have the breakdowns in front of you and any 10 July 1, 1997 W� questions you have or that anybody else could have, is just I am putting it up for consideration based on the explanations that I have given how we came about breaking it down. Dr. Lichtman: I follow. It's in some respects not dissimilar in concept to the map that Dr. Wilson and myself drew, which is 5-2, our plan. Is there any way to put them up side by side? - which is our plan also using census tracts and creating roughly a coastal district. In terms of the ethnic breakdowns of the two plans there is only one substantial difference, but it may be of some consequence for the Commission to consider. Under the plan that Dr. Wilson and I drew, the coastal district which is District II under our plan, District I, under this plan is, in terms of its voting age population, 36 percent Anglo, 36 percent Hispanic. I don't see voting age population here, but in terms of total population our plan is 32 percent Anglo, 35 percent Hispanic. This plan is 45 percent Hispanic and 31 percent Anglo in the coastal district. So, it's about... It's pretty similar with respect to the Anglo population percentage, but it is about ten points higher with respect to the Hispanic population within the coastal district. Otherwise, that's the one substantial difference in terms of the demographics. Otherwise, as in this plan, this new illustrative plan likewise has three overwhelmingly Hispanic districts, three four and five and one overwhelmingly African -American district - District II. So, in terms of the numbers the distinction comes in the coastal district. Commissioner Hernandez: And, that was done strictly to protect and preserve an Anglo seat on this Commission. And, I'll tell you why you see the increase in the Hispanic. What you have is an increase in the non -Cuban Hispanic, which relatively and historically when you look at voting trends in the City of Miami, have tend to have gone to the non -Cuban vote. So therefore, to preserve the Anglo vote, which again, in total population, they would not have a district per se because they have only 44,000 in total population. We had to get into a census tract area where there was a larger amount of non -Cuban Hispanic. Dr. Lichtman: Which area is that? Commissioner Hernandez; Upper east side on the top. We narrowed the bottom part, where there was more Cubans on the bottom part, between the orange and the green... Dr. Lichtman: I guess... Yeah, I guess both plans have the upper east side in its entirety within the coastal district. The biggest difference, and I can't- quite tell because the maps aren't necessarily scaled, looks like this district comes out to pick up Wynwood/Edgewater and then goes up into the Coral Way area which probably accounts for the expanded Hispanic population in District I. Commissioner Hernandez: Doctor, which map is it that you have on the right hand side, the one you are looking at over here? Hold on. Dr. Lichtman: This one? Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah. Dr. Lichtman: That's the map drawn up by Dr. Wilson and myself. Commissioner Hernandez: Which one five one or five two? Dr. Lichtman: Five two based on census tracts which has a slightly different... Unfortunately... Did you have voting age populations for your districts? Commissioner Hernandez: I did not use voting age population. And, the reason I asked you that question is, usually, and then you can see the deviation in your numbers. When you use voting 11 July 1, 1997 age population Hispanics obviously, there is a large number of non -citizen Hispanics and undocumented Hispanics and therefore when you look at, there is a lot of, a lot larger population of Hispanics than voting age Hispanics. Dr. Lichtman: No, no. This is just voting age. This is citizens, non -citizens. This is not citizen voting age population that's in our statistics. Commissioner Hernandez: But, what is... Dr. Lichtman: It's simply 18 and over, period. 1 Commissioner Hernandez: OK, but look at... Go to your 5-2... Dr. Lichtman: Right. Commissioner Hernandez: ... map. I mean, your numbers. Dr. Lichtman: Yep. Commissioner Hernandez: The top part, that's total population, correct? Dr. Lichtman: Right. And, the second bar is voting age population. Commissioner Hernandez: Voting age. And, that's what I am saying, look at the difference in the Hispanics, how you have a major drop off in numbers between the total... Dr. Lichtman: No, it's identical. Thirty-five and 36 percent. The drop off is in African - Americans because they are younger. Commissioner Hernandez: No, no. Hold on a second. Look at the, unless... Look at the plan 5- 2... Dr. Lichtman: Right. Commissioner Hernandez: ... tract number one, Hispanics for example on the top, right. Dr. Lichtman: It's tract... We are looking at the coastal district number two. It's number one on your plan, it's number two on our plan. Commissioner Hernandez: OK, which one are you looking at? Five two, tract two? Dr. Lichtman: Five two, tract... It's five two by tracts, District II. Commissioner Hernandez: District II. Dr. Lichtman: It's on total population, 35 percent Hispanic. In voting age population it's actually slightly higher, 36.2. The big tail off is in the African -American, which drops from 31.9 to 26.6. And, the Anglo rises substantially from 31.6 to 35.7. But, the Hispanic population is almost identical. Commissioner Hernandez: Doctor, follow what I am saying. And, maybe we are losing each other on the translation. District II... Dr. Lichtman: Right. 12 July 1, 1997 }�4 K Commissioner Hernandez: ... in your 5-2, right? Dr. Lichtman: Correct. Commissioner Hernandez: On the top side... Dr. Lichtman: Right. Commissioner Hernandez: ... there is 24,785 Hispanics, correct? Dr. Lichtman: Correct. Commissioner Hernandez: OK. Drop down now to voting age population. Dr. Lichtman: Correct. Commissioner Hernandez: District II, has 20,248 Hispanics that can vote, correct? Dr. Lichtman: No. That's simply Hispanics of 18 and over. It says nothing about whether they are citizens. Commissioner Hernandez: Well, that's what I am saying. When the situation is, when you look at voting age population strictly its' somewhat misleading because we have a large group of Hispanics that are either non -citizens and can't vote, and are over 18, and or are undocumented. And, then when you look at that, it somewhat shows... It looks like... the perception is, that the Hispanic has a lot more power than it really has. That's what I was trying to... Dr. Lichtman: That's a different point, entirely. Commissioner Hernandez: OK. Dr. Lichtman: But the drop from 24,785 to 22,048 has to be looked at in comparison to the other drops. For example, the drop in Black population from population to voting age population goes down from 22,602 to 14,889 which is why the Black population actually drops off in terms of total to voting age population much more substantially than the Hispanic which actually rises. Now, the point you make which is absolutely correct, Commissioner, and I have been stressing this throughout, is that of course, 36 percent does not represent the voting power of Hispanics. The basis rule of thumb, and this you know, would vary from district to district. But, if you want to get a rough calculation of the voting power of Hispanics based on the 18 year old is to take the Hispanic population and multiply it by about point six. So, if you had a 20,248 Hispanic eighteen and over population in terms of voters, it would be somewhere in the vicinity of 12 to 13,000. And, you do it, I don't have the voting age numbers on your plan, but say it was somewhere around 28,000, you would then multiply it by approximately by point six. Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask you a question? Maybe, I need an education. Dr. Lichtman: Yes, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Is the terminology when you say one man, one vote. One person, one vote. Dr. Lichtman: One person, right. 13 July 1, 1997 ;ts a Z) Commissioner Plummer: That way I don't get in trouble. Yet, you make the statement that you are basing it on population not on registered voters. Dr. Lichtman: Correct. Commissioner Plummer: So, what about the people in the City who are not registered voters, how does that equate to one person, one vote when a great deal of the people obviously, if there is 135,000 registered voters and we are a population of 358? Dr. Lichtman: That correct. Commissioner Plummer: It's not the same. Dr. Lichtman: Of course not. You are absolutely right, Commissioner. However, what the Supreme Court has said, in terms of constitutional requirements, one person, one vote refers to populations, not registered voters. It's the same when we do the United States Congress. We don't create congressional districts based upon registered voters. We create congressional districts based on population. However, as our colloquy has indicated, if you wanted to then analyze potential votes within a district, obviously total population does not suffice because there are differences in age, as we saw African -Americans are younger. Nor in a community with a substantial Hispanic population does even voting age population suffice because of citizenship differences which is why you use, in terms of if you want to analyze voting potential, something entirely different from one person one vote, I used my basic rule of point six. Multiply the Hispanic population by point six to try to figure out the potential Hispanic voters in a district. But, that has nothing to do with one person, one vote, which according to law is based on total population. Commissioner Plummer: What would be your recommendation, we understand on all of the plans with the exception of five, was any consideration given to the five member plan as to this... What would happen with the Mayor's position? Dr. Lichtman: Well, not by us, I mean, we were simply asked to draw a five member plan and did so. However, if you are going to have an odd number of districts then the logical step would be to have a Mayor, who does not vote on the Commission, but has veto power over the Commission. That would be the logical step with an odd number of single member districts. You would have a Mayor elected Citywide with a kind of standard Mayoral powers that you find traditionally in many municipalities and counties. That would be the model, that would logically flow from a five district plan. Different models would flow from four and a six. Commissioner Plummer: So, a the six would be six Commissioners plus the Mayor? Dr. Lichtman: The six district plan would be six Commissioners plus the Mayor, and they are based... Commissioner Plummer: And, the only deviation of the committee was in fact that the Mayor would run Citywide, rather than from a district? Other than that, was there any other recommendations from the committee? Dr. Lichtman: I believe, and again, I am not the person recording the Commission. But, my recollection is, if they had recommended if you had a four or a six district plan, kind of a super strong Mayor. That is a Mayor who both votes to break ties, since you have an even number of Commissioners, and has veto power. You don't have to have that with a four or six. You could have a week Mayor, I don't want to use terms. But, a Mayor who votes but does not have veto power. These terms are not value terms they are simply descriptive terms. But, 14 July 1, 1997 a �1 with a five district plan, it would logically follow that you would have a Mayor who did not regularly vote on the Commission, but had veto power. With a four district plan, you could have a Mayor, I believe like you have now, who votes as a regular member of the Commission but has not veto power. Or, kind of a Mayor who can do both. Commissioner Plummer: Quasi. Dr. Lichtman: Right. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. City Attorney, I asked you the other day because I thought that, as well as it was important to draw the lines as to the questions that will actually go on the ballot, and the wording that would go on the ballot. Do we have...? Oh, thank you. Do we have any proposals as to wording? Mr. A. Quinn Jones, III, Esq. (City Attorney): No, you don't have anything. I have not crafted anything yet. As I indicated the other day, I need to know exactly what this Commission wants to do. I can't come up with language unless, until you determine what you want to do. Commissioner Plummer: OK, the question I asked the other day... For example, you indicated that you could go from a simple ballot question as simple as "Do you want districts or don't you" to another extreme. And, hopefully, as we usually do around here, hopefully fall somewhere in the middle, and what I am having... trying to ask is, what would be something in the middle? Would you in fact be in the ballot itself drawing lines? In the ballot, is it simply a question of two Afro-American, two Hispanic, one Anglo? I mean, I am trying to come up... maybe you can give me some answers as how it has occurred in other areas? Dr. Lichtman: Yeah, you certainly would not on the ballot have lines. I mean, that's impossible. You could have... You could put out an illustrative map, you can circulate it, but you would not have specific lines on the ballot, nor would you mention a racial divisions on the ballot. Remember, these plans were not drawn on the basis of race, and you don't want to intimate that at all because that could put you in legal difficulty. Vice Mayor Regalado: But, would you mention numbers? Dr. Lichtman: You... Yes, you would mention the number. You would say on the ballot five single member districts plus whatever you plan to do about the Mayor. That way the voters would know they are going to be voting for a plan that's going to have five Commissioners, each elected from a district and a Mayor, with however you decide to pick the Mayor or four districts with a Mayor or six. That would be simple, direct and then you could certainly circulate an illustrative plan, but you don't have to put lines itself on the ballot. David, how do they do it in Dade, Metro -Dade when they went to districts? Mr. Leahy: They have adopted a specific plan with specific lines. The wording on the ballot was simply, well of course, these were all court ordered. Dr. Lichtman: Right. Mr. Leahy: So... Dr. Lichtman: But, you did have a ballot, did you not? Or, you got no ballot? Mr. Leahy: We didn't have a ballot in terms of the County Commission, it was court ordered. Dr. Lichtman: So you hadn't...? So, there is no model there? 15 July 1, 1997 1t it Will Mr. Leahy: It was court ordered, same with the School Board. Dr. Lichtman: Right. So, you did not go the voters. But, basically, you could certainly adopt a plan. Commissioner Plummer: Well, are you talking about a ballot that would be say, three questions instead of one? Do you want a five member plan? Do you want a four member plan or you want no plan? You say yes, yes, and no. No, no, and yes. I mean... Dr. Lichtman: If you want nothing to happen... Commissioner Plummer: I am trying to come up with what... Dr. Lichtman: Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: ... is actually going to be where they pull the little lever. Dr. Lichtman: If you want nothing to happen that's what you would do. I mean because it's unlikely you would have a majority for anything. If you really want to give the voters a choice, this is just my opinion based on my experience. This Commission should make a decision and put it on the ballot, not give the voters an alternative. Commissioner Plummer: That decision as to... In other words, are you saying that this Commission will put on a ballot that we offer to the public a five member period, and then we draw the lines afterwards? Dr. Lichtman: Probably not. Commissioner Plummer: Well that's what I am trying to come out. Dr. Lichtman: I would say you probably want to draw the lines as close as you can before, but the lines themselves do not have to be on the ballot. You can have on the ballot the proposition that we are going to have five single member districts and a Mayor with such and such power. That's would be what's on the ballot itself, giving the voters the choice either to keep the present system or to move to a system that you the Commission have adopted as opposed to creating several alternatives for the voters. In my view, the Commission ought to (a) come up with a plan that is, whether you want five, four, six whatever and then at some point before the balloting come up with specific lines as well. Mayor Carollo: And, not only that, but the City Attorney was specific at out last meeting that we should be as specific as we possibly can in the wording that we place on the ballot. Dr. Lichtman: Absolutely, and, very careful about that, that's right. Commissioner Gort: Well, my understanding is, if you want the voters to vote on it you got to have a plan to show it around. The plan does not have to be on the ballot. The ballot can say five, six or four, whatever. But, whatever we decide I think it has to be there and it has got to be shown to everybody. Dr. Lichtman: It's got to be circulated, that's right. Commissioner Gort: We have to go through all the neighborhoods and show it to the people and let them know what the lines are going to be. 16 July 1, 1997 S. Dr. Lichtman: That's correct. Commissioner Gort: And by not being on the ballot you have to go and you have to make a commitment to certain plan. l Vice Mayor Regalado: Based on your experience, Mr. Mayor, if I may? Suppose that.the voters of the City of Miami would approve a plan and a strong Mayor form of government, and after i that is approved that is challenged in the courts, what then would be the scenario for the next election, or if there is an election? Dr. Lichtman: Well, it's most unlikely. Again, I know there is another issue about staggered terms. I am not sure when the next election would be. But, assuming it is not immediately afterwards, it strikes me, one of two scenarios is possible. Either the case gets decided one way or the other. And, if you win, then you simply go on and continue under the plan that the voters adopted. If you lose you are going to have to either come up with a new plan of your own that satisfies the court or the court will draw a plan of its own. The other scenario is, the case is still ongoing, it strikes me most unlikely that the court would enjoin the elections. It's possible they could. Saying, you know, you can't have elections under this plan. It strikes me as most unlikely. Either it strikes me, the case will be resolved one way or the other or the case will be ongoing and you will continue under the plan that the voters adopted. Mayor Carollo: Well, I will tell you what is very possible that could happen if the court decides that we are wrong and they ruled against the City of Miami, then the court will have the option that they will most likely follow of saying that the elections that we had this November were fine but we are going to have elections again, next year. Dr. Lichtman: That's very likely. Mayor Carollo: And, this is why it is imperative that we choose a plan that will be as fair as we could present and at the same time, whatever plan is chosen -- a plan that can stand the scrutiny of the courts. Dr. Lichtman: And, I believe of the options that have come forth from the committee and that the additional option that we have represented, you know, depending on the type of court case, I would say certainly six or five district plan is defensible in court. Commissioner Plummer: Speak to staggered terms. Dr. Lichtman: Well, the issue of staggered terms is an important decision for you all to make in terms of what you decide is fair for the Commission. But, it can also raise a legal issue if it delays remedy of a current situation which is found to violate the law, then a staggered term provision could in fact, itself be found to be in violation of the law. So, it depends which districts are coming up with respect to the staggered terms to a great extent. Mayor Carollo: I think in our case, if anything, it's going to be helpful to our position by having staggered terms and keeping the faith of the voters for the remaining two years after November that two members of this Commission would still have left. The two members on my extreme ends. Dr. Lichtman: I see no problem with that provided it doesn't get you into Voting Rights difficulty. And, that would depend... Since the only lawsuit I know of that's now pending has to do with African -American opportunity, it would depend upon what kind of African -American opportunity was created by the staggered term. 17 July 1, 1997 U Commissioner Plummer: But, of the work that you have done around the country... Dr. Lichtman: Yes, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Do, most of the successful cases that you have worked on have staggered terms or do not? Dr. Lichtman: It varies. There is no single rule. As I said, it depends upon the principle of whether or not if you adopted staggered terms that would impede opportunities for minorities to elect candidates of their choice. If so, it could run a not... Remember, all that we have is a pending lawsuit at this point. At this point no. As far as I know, no one has found that anything that you all are doing is in violation of any law. But, in terms of potentials problems for the City, I... If you told me what districts were coming up, I could analyze it for you and what plan you were adopting I could say, I don't think this poses difficulties, I do. It would depend upon which districts and particularly with respect to the districts that provide African -Americans opportunity to elect candidates of their choice. Vice Mayor RegaIado: Could you do that and bring back the report? Dr. Lichtman: I could do it immediately if you... With respect to any one of the plans, if you told me which districts, you know... Mayor Carollo: Well, let me be very specific. The two members that would have two years remaining in their original term after November, one will be running out of whatever plan we come up with. One will be running from the coastal district... Dr. Lichtman: OK. Mayor Carollo: ... which will be the district where an Anglo has an opportunity to be able to win. Dr. Lichtman: Correct. Mayor Carollo: The other district will be strictly a Hispanic district. Dr. Lichtman: Then it should not pose Voting Rights problems for you. Mayor Carollo: None whatsoever is my opinion. Commissioner Plummer: Well, I am assuming you are saying that predicated on the fact that there would be three running every time, that the third one would be one of the African districts. Dr. Lichtman: That's my thought. What the Mayor had told me. Mayor Carollo: This is obvious. Commissioner Hernandez: This is our situation, eh? Dr. Lichtman: That was my... right. So long as the African -American district or districts is not the one that's being delayed... Commissioner Hernandez: Right. 18 July 1, 1997 Dr. Lichtman: ... I don't see why that would pose for you Voting Rights problems. It may pose other problems, but not Voting Rights problems. That's my opinion. And, all of these, I am not a lawyer but I have been in a lot of cases, you know, you never know how a case is going to come down. But, that's my opinion. I don't see why that should affect a lawsuit alleging dilution of African -American opportunity. Vice Mayor Regalado: But, the most common fault would be the Voting Rights area? Dr. Lichtman: Well, you already have, as I understand, a Voting Rights lawsuit pending so that's what you would have to... Vice Mayor Regalado: No, I mean in other cases, in different cities in terms of staggering terms. Dr. Lichtman: Oh, yes, the issue is... Vice Mayor Regalado:... The issue. Dr. Lichtman: ...the Voting Rights issue, right. Which doesn't mean there can't be other issues raised. As you know, every time you do anything that changes anything issues can be raised. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Plummer, you have indicated and we knew that since last night that you had to leave at eight thirty this morning. Commissioner Plummer: Yes, sir. Mayor Carollo: The earliest you could come back you stated was 11:00 a.m. Commissioner Plummer: Yes, sir, eleven will be fine with me. Mayor Carollo: What time can the other members of the Commission come back to meet? Vice Mayor Regalado: Eleven is fine for me, Mayor. Commissioner Plummer: Leave it at eleven, if you would, Mr. Mayor, and if you do change it, then you can notify me by phone if you change it to an afternoon meeting. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Gort, Commissioner Hernandez? Commissioner Hernandez: That's fine. Vice Mayor Regalado: Fine, eleven with me. Mayor Carollo: Excuse me? i Commissioner Gort: Eleven is all right with me. Mayor Carollo: OK. So, we will be meeting again at 11:00 a.m. That will be the time we will reconvene. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, just for the record. Mayor Carollo: So, a few minutes left that we have. Commissioner Plummer: I thank you and I serve in this capacity of having to leave in two capacities. One, my long time girlfriend's father passed away and the funeral is at ten o'clock 19 July 1, 1997 and in the second capacity, I am also the funeral director. So, I am serving in dual capacity. I have to be there. So, I am sorry to inconvenience anyone, but I do have to leave. Mayor Carollo: Representative Bush. Representative Bush: Mr. Mayor, are we saying that we are not going to have public testimony? Commissioner Plummer: Oh, absolutely. Mayor Carollo: We are going to have public testimony, but I think the public would have all five members of the Commission here on something of this importance and magnitude. Representative Bush: Well, Mr. Mayor, I mean, a lot of these people are going to have leave before that time and I think it would be unfair to the public. Mayor Carollo: I will be happy, even if I am alone to stay here until everyone that would like to make a statement would do so. Commissioner Plummer: I'll be back in a while. [At the point, 8:26 a.m. Commissioner Plummer left the City Commission Chamber.] Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Plummer, does have to leave. He can't stay. Representative Bush: Mr. Mayor, I, you know, personally I serve on this Blue Ribbon panel and I am... Just for the record, I thought this was going to be a fair process. And, a lot of these people made a tremendous effort, special effort to get here this morning. And, I just don't think that it is fair to the citizens... Unidentified Speaker: That's right. Representative Bush: ... when they have some concerns about this particular issue because it denies a majority of them an opportunity to be represented on this Commission. Mayor Carollo: Representative Bush, again, I would be happy to stay here and listen to anyone that would like to speak or make any statements, but, you know, Commissioner Plummer, I assure you didn't plan the death that he had with his girlfriend's father and he also has to attend to that funeral. That happened yesterday that he died and... i Representative Bush: OK, Mr. Mayor, and I appreciate that and we sympathize with that. Let me just say then, if I might. We have had public testimonies, we have had public hearings throughout this City and the majority of the public expressed to this Commission that the 6-2C plan was the best plan in their estimation because it affords representation throughout the City. It gives all of the various ethnic groups an opportunity to be represented on this great Commission and to account the neighborhoods of sociodemographic data and all of the necessary things that the Civil Rights requirements for you guys to clean this up and to give proper representation. So, if a lot of the members must leave, I would think it's the opinion of the majority of them that the 6-2C plan was the best plan. And, your own experts have said on two or three occasions, and I know for the record, I have asked this question twice that the 6-2C plan will include, is inclusive as opposed to exclusive. So, we just want to express that we hope that the Commission will act in good favor of the citizens of Miami and we hope that when we come back that we would have an opportunity to express our concerns about the fairness on this Commission. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 20 July 1, 1997 �}�'4+e, W� Mayor Carollo: I thank you for your statement and joining us here this morning. Again, anybody that would like to make a statement now, that cannot come back at eleven, and we will have public participation again after we come back at 11:00 a.m. Anyone that cannot come back after eleven, certainly is welcome to leave on the record, either verbally or in writing with the Clerk any statements if they so wish. Representative Bush: OK, I'll tell you what then, I'll yield to Mr. Burke, but I have some questions that I would like to raise as well. Mayor Carollo: Certainly. Commissioner. County Commissioner Jimmy Burke: Thank you, very much. Good morning, Mr. Mayor, Commissioners. I will not be able to return at eleven and for that reason I would like to leave on the record my strong opinion that the six plan is a good plan that brings this community together. One of the questions that have come up, and it's kind of a general principle, was that what happens when people who are minorities become the majority. Even though they are different minorities that come together. And, a number of people that have thought said that if that ever happened you would have a very strong, diverse, sensitive City. And, I think that is what is perceived by the coming together of the minorities in this community make up the majority. There are others who said that what will happen is that the major minority would then become like the dictatorship that was before. That is, that they will be insensitvie to everybody else, to all the other new minorities. And, I think that's what we are trying not to have that happen here. That in fact, what would happen is that there would be 'a fair sharing of authority and power for what is a great City internationally. And, so for that reason I think, that was looking at the six, the plan with six. And, I would just hope that when you look at the possibilities, it would not be seen as losing power or not loosing power. That it is a fair opportunity for all the communities to come together. The one thing that happens is, there are cities your size that have many more people than five on this Commission. And, because Miami is such an international City, and a City that is known throughout this country, it would be hoped that we will not let the size whether it's five is better than having six. But, that you would go forth and do whatever number it takes. Finally, let me just say that in 1987, when several of us got together to sue Dade County, and that's when we field a lawsuit initially in 1987, we got together not as Blacks, not as Hispanics, not as Whites, but just as a group of people that wanted the County to be fair. And, we could not get the Commission to be fair so we went along with the lawsuit and as a result, we came up with a Commission that was larger, but is considered to be fairer. None of us I know who were Black parties to that lawsuit, Carrie Meek, myself and Betty Ferguson ever thought well, let's have a lawsuit and as a result we don't want to have, you know, six Hispanics or whatever. We thought it ought to be fair and that it would fall as it has. And, so in that way, I would just ask you also, not to look at the numbers, but to look at the fairness in bringing people in. That, you know, I would just voice as a matter of just the principle of it. Just remember, this is not, I think you know that, and I have seen you in your deliberations, you know that this is not, let's say, Waycross, Georgia. You are a great City and you are called upon to act as great statesmen and I would urge you heed the words of Representative Bush and others who have served on the citizens panel that you put together and have come forth with you with what they think is a fair principle and it's still just an indication to be fair. And, I end by telling you where you are and I kind of look at things in history. I end it by, you know, giving you a poem that I always think of where you are when you have an opportunity to act. And, the poem is by Ira Sharp, and it is one that says in effect that you have an opportunity to be a stumbling block or a stepping point at this point in the history of Miami: "Isn't it strange that prince and kings and clouds that caper and sawdust rings and common people like you and like me are builders of eternity. For each is given a bag of tools, a shapeless mask and a book of rules. And, each must make our life is flown, a stumbling block or a stepping stone." And, we are just asking you at this opportunity, at this point in history of this great City to be that kind of stepping stone to bring all our communities together. And, we think it can best be done by the adoption of this six plan and having a strong Mayor as a part of it. Thank you, very much. [APPLAUSE] 21 July 1, 1997 z, y.. a Mayor Carollo: Reverend. Reverend James Phillips: Good morning, Mr. Mayor, staff. My name is Reverend James Phillips and I reside at 1040 Centerbrook Road here in Miami. I just want to say that I have been at several of these community meetings and of course I was at the meeting last Tuesday night when the Blue Ribbon Committee made their recommendations to the staff. And, I was also at the community meetings when citizens overwhelmingly wanted to see the 6-2C plan and I assume that the "C" plan is the plan that has been modified to include more of the Overtown area be implemented. And, of course, I just have to sort of piggyback on what Commissioner Burke said that we really are only looking for fairness. We are not looking to take over anything, we jare not looking, as one Commissioner said on Spanish radio, to take over Jose Marti Park and turn it into something else. That's not what we want. That's not what the African -American community is looking to do. These kind of remarks help to separate this City, it doesn't help to bring us together. And, this is all we are asking for, is fairness. We are asking to be included. We are asking to be a part of the process. And, we are asking you, please. The recommendations have been made by the Blue Ribbon Committee. The recommendation has been made by the public of this great City that you adopt the 6-2C plan. You know, I cannot express that enough to you, the importance of listening to the community. And, not just listening to them, but really feeling what they are feeling. If, you know, we can understand some of the things that happened over in Cuba and the great oppression that exist on that island. We don't ! want to create this kind of a thing again. Fairness, again is all we have ever asked for. It's what I' we ask for today. We want to be inclusive of all people. We don't want to leave anyone out. And, we just ask you to listen to the public. You formed the Blue Ribbon Committee and if you f are going to dismiss what there recommendations are then what was the point of even bringing together a Blue Ribbon Committee. It just sort of... It's confusing to us. Under one hand you say you want to help and you have implemented this Blue Ribbon Committee to do so. And, then on the other hand it sounds as if, you know, they are tactics that have been employed to further separate this wonderful City that I love. And, we just want you to be fair. We just want you to be... We want to be included, we want the opportunity to share in the political process that has thus far built this great City, Miami. Thank you. Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Reverend Phillips. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Go ahead. Mr. Al Cardenas: Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission. Thank you. I won't be able to be here at eleven, so I wanted to leave my comments on the record, if I could. For the record, my name is Al Cardenas and I am vice president of the Republican Party of Florida and I have been elected every four years by over 300,0000 people in this County to have the opportunity of serving that post. And, the only reason I say that, because it's relevant to the comments I am about to make. And that is, that I want to make sure that this Commission recommends a plan to the voters that will be acceptable to the voters of the City of Miami so that we do have fairness. When you Mr. Mayor, asked me to serve on this panel, I agreed to do so for two reasons. One, we had, you know, by the voters decision in the City of Miami, we have moved away from a tradition that we had for 14 or 15 years. In the City wherein the dais we had five elected representatives that represented all three of our ethnic, major ethnic communities in this town. And, I thought that it was only appropriate that we develop a mechanism that will allow us to have what we had for 15 years and had lost through the will of the public. But, in doing so, adopting a plan that would also meet the public's muster. And, we went about that. Six weeks ago, I had recommended to the Blue Ribbon Committee which was appointed and I thought very fairly represented amongst all ethnic communities that we adopt a five member district or at least 22 July 1, 1997 that we ask the experts who had just been hired to draw a five member district plan. Unfortunately, that motion failed although I know that Commissioner Morse on a couple of occasions afterwards suggested we have one. I still personally believe that that is the plan that would accomplish the three things that we would like. One, return to the dais of the Commission the same multiethnic representation we had for 14 years. But, number two and most importantly it would be a plan that would be approved, I believe, by a majority of the voters of Dade County. I firmly believe in.the 7-Eleven test. And, that 7-Eleven test as I understand it, is going to the various 7-Elevens in our local community and just standing there for an hour or so talking to people who come in and out and ask how they feel. And, I personally feel regardless, with all respect as to how the majority of the folks here feel, that a five member district would pass the 7- Eleven test. I don't believe that a six member district would. Now, let me tell you also how I feel about it. There is a great temptation on. my part and the part of many others who care for and respect everyone that's here. And, I have a special fondness for my colleagues, Representatives Bush and Commissioner Burke and Commissioner Meek, excuse me, Representative Meek and I would like for them to feel good. And, sometimes you say to yourself, well, you know in terms of community unity let's all feel good with one another and do something which is not really, you know, a bad plan. The problem with the momentary feel good situation is that you win a battle but the loose a war. I am firmly convinced that if this Commission adopts a six member district plan that it will fail in the polls in September. It will fail for two reasons. One, I think a large segment of the voting public feels like this City is going through a financial hardship and regardless of the financial arguments we can make, I think there will be a strong perception that now is not the time to increase the size of our government. And, I believe that is a very strong reason, a strong perception and that will bring an immediate negative feeling to a plan that will increase the size of our government significantly. And, number two, I feel that the community would be sympathetic towards restoring a tradition that existed here for almost two decades of multiethnic representation. But, I don't believe they would consider it fair to go beyond that. Now, my concern is what will happen to this community after September is this vote fails. And, I will tell you that I think I know this community very well. And, I have stood for what I thought was right on many occasions. As many of you know, I... I'll give you a brief example. It's a recent election for Dade County Mayor. I supported Art Teele for Mayor. He had been a close friend and a member of my party. And, I think all of us know demographically what the results of that election were within the City of Miami. I for over decades have gotten, I think, to understand this community demographically and that's why I believe people select me to make political decisions for them. I do not believe that a six member district regardless of how well intentioned it is, will pass the voters mustard. And, I believe that it will be extremely dangerous for us to heighten the expectations of a very valuable portion of our community only to disappoint them in September. And, I believe that the ensuring intentions are not to our benefit. And, for that reason, I believe that maybe not everyone will be entirely satisfied, but we can all certainly agree that it would be... A five member district could be a fair plan, maybe not the preferred plan, but a fair plan. The most important thing about that plan is, that it is a plan that will pass the voters mustard. Another plan will not. And, I think if we are going to do the right thing, we need to make sure it's the right thing that has the chance to pass and that's why I felt so strongly about the five member district. And so, I just wanted to leave that on the record for you. Thank you. Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Al. Yes, sir. Reverend Willie Leonard: Mr. Mayor, Commissioners. My name is Reverend Willie Leonard, President of Ministerial Alliance of Coconut Grove. And, we think that the six plan shows fairness and it shows good faith. As I look over these group of people here I see hard working, sacrificing people, that sacrificed greatly this morning to be here at seven o'clock, which I do think is unfair for many of them that has other things that they must do today to have to come back at 11 o'clock. By the way, I'll be back, but we think that the six plan shows fairness and it shows good faith. I have been in this community for 42 years and I have seen people here that 23 July 1, 1997 have made this the great community that it is. This is a metropolis, an international City known all over the world and what we do here will set a precedence and will travel, will be known, what happen here with the fairness of what happened here. I think just about everybody over the world knows what type of City Miami is and what we have here. There is many situations that we have here. I think it can be settled just fine, if we just do the right thing. We support the six member district. Thank you. Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Ms. Manty Sabates Morse: Mr. Mayor... Mayor Carollo: Yes. Ms. Morse: ... and Commissioners. My name is Manti Sabates Morse, I am a member of the School Board. I am also the president of the Republican Party here in Dade County. And, I have a doctor's appointment so I might not be back. So... and I missed one important meeting and because I missed that one important meeting of the Blue Ribbon Committee is the reason why we are here discussing this here today. From the beginning, as I stated here last Wednesday or Thursday, we spoke on that committee about creating a four or five or a six committee, districts, to be brought up to you, to be brought up to the voters in the public hearing. The one meeting that I missed is the one that the instructions were given to the gentlemen to draw the maps and all of a sudden we went from four to six, we forgot the five. As, Mr. Cardenas has expressed, even before we took it to the public hearings, he expressed it in there that we needed to see a five map and we were quoted that it would take two days to do it, and we were under the impression that it had been ordered but it was not. Fairness, this is what I call... we were not treated fairly. All the public hearings that we had, we should have had a five member district also for everyone to see, we didn't have it. Another was right here on Friday when we brought it here, again it was brought up to discussion and again it was voted... First, it was tied nine nine. And, then second vote somehow went to ten nine. I really can't understand how it was, but again, we lost with the five member district. So, people have not been able to even discuss the five member district and this is where I think fairness, dealt us... did not treat us right. Not you, not me, not the Commissioners sitting up here. They had a right to see it. The City of Miami has... could not be and the Commissioners sitting up here cannot be accused of discriminating against any ethnic group. We have for years had an Afro-American, and Anglo and three Hispanics sitting here on the board. That's why I think the threat of a lawsuit against any... in front of any judge, it could be easily won because this City has never discriminated against any ethnic group when it comes to sitting up here. It has never. OK, this is the first time in six months we do not have an Afro-American sitting here. The first time in close to 20 years. So, this is the reason why we are here. The Commissioners, when it came the last election they committed to having this district election. This is why we are here. We need to look at the five, we need to be fair to everyone. We cannot have... If we are going with a four or a six, we are asking the Mayor to have a vote on the Committee plus a veto power. That's not a Mayor, that is a super Mayor. And, the City of Miami is ready for a Mayor, not for a super Mayor. And, I don't know who will be sitting in that chair but I don't think it's fair to the community to give that one person two votes in a Commission. First of all, I think an odd number like you have in the County is the only way to really go. So, this is reason why I am here to express my feelings against and to actually explain to you one more time why you don't have a five district map sitting here. It was not ordered, it was voted down every time it was brought up. So, the intention to not bring it to the public was never there. Now, the gentleman before me said that this has been a sacrifice to be here, well I was here on Saturday also, at seven o'clock, and this is not a sacrifice. This is a duty that we have for the City of Miami and I am very proud to be here. Six o'clock, seven o'clock, anytime you call me. Thank you. Mayor Carollo: Yes, Representative Meek. 24 July 1, 1997 Q4�r Representative Kendrick Meek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission. I would like to number one, commend you on your time that you spend on this issue and the time that you are going to spend on this issue. Also, I would like to commend the public for coming out, but I must say at the same time as we start looking at these plans and start looking at using the word of fairness and fair play -- I wasn't a member of the Blue Ribbon Commission, but I had several friends that I respect not only from the African -American community, but from the Anglo and White, I mean from the Hispanic community also. And, I must say that it was a group of individuals that were representative of a whole community and that could possibly give us a good snapshot of what kind of leadership we should have. And, to use that word "leadership" I think that is... I won't use it in a loose way because leaders actually, hopefully help a community in its direction. And, as we look at direction of the City of Miami, there are a lot of people that are looking for us to sell a lot of newspapers and take up a lot of the time on the evening news talking about that person and this group and the Republicans and Democrats and the Cubans and the Blacks and Whites and what have you. But, I must say that, as we look at a plan and we are looking, I am in support of the six district plan, but at the same time, we look at "fair play." And, when I see leaders in our community who have the ability to be able to share with the voting public, the voting public I am speaking of, the City of Miami, have an opportunity to just say well, let's look at fairness, let's look at proper representation. Let's look at things that neighborhoods have in common. When we look at economic stability, we have a big economic problem as it relates to prosperity in the City of Miami. And, when you look at Black Miami, you look at a lot of that, you could see a lot of that. You look at a lot of our street .violence. It is happening in those areas. Right now in the area of Model City and Overtown we have people that are being shot and killed on a daily basis. Right now the police is not the total answer to that, but representation is. And, as we look as fairness once again, we must think of not only maybe one representative from the African -American community that lives, that will have to live in that area and hear the gun fire that takes place on a daily basis, but it could possibly be two. And the two, in the six district plan you could actually have a Haitian member, a member of this Commission. You know, that's growing population. I have also heard comments here today as it relates to individuals that are citizens and that are becoming citizens. And, I think Commissioner Regalado... and I think that was a good observation to make. That also happens in the Haitian community. And, that we have to take that into consideration. But, I must say my colleague in public service, Commissioner Burke mentioned - I did a little research in other major cities you have several representatives and we start looking at bigger government I wouldn't look at additional representatives, of the public as as additional government. I look at it as additional representation. When I go to the County Commission I cannot only go to see Commissioner Denise Morse, but I can go and see Commissioner Carey. If she is not in, I can also go and talk to my Commissioner, Commissioner Betty Ferguson. If she is not in, I can also go and speak to other Commissioners that are on the County Commission, but at the same time we should be able to do that here in the City of Miami. I must say that as we go through this process that we do look at the thing of fairness. I think the leaders here on this Commission, and we have worked together on several... Some of you we have worked together as it relates to representation, Black representation. I think that we can send a signal out to the City of Miami, to voting public of what's right. If you agree to a plan, need it be plan six, or a plan that looks like that plan, we could win this thing. We can actually go to... We can go on radio, we can have press conferences. We can make sure that we have the City of Miami. I am in support of the City of Miami existing. I am going to be here shortly after eleven o'clock, I have other meetings that are planned. But, I think in the future as we go through this process of working towards a plan that hopefully that people can vote on in early September that we also think of inclusion. And, I think that as we look at this time and I know that a lot of people talked about the time of the meeting. I know that we have a lot of work do before, especially you Commissioners. We may want to consider decision making and public input in the evening time. It is challenging for the working class individual to be here at this time. Fortunately, I have a job that I can leave and go and do work on the computer in the evening hours to allow me 25 July 1, 1997 gn *_ to be here So, I know that those communities that I mentioned, Model City, Liberty City, Overtown, Wynwood. I am pretty sure it happens. And, I know that gun fire and violent crime happens in Little Havana and other areas that go on. But, I must say that it's very important that we think of fairness and we don't necessarily have to have a five district plan. We can have a six district plan, we can have a seven district plan. We can have a nine district plan. But, I must say, if we are set our boots into five districts or our heels into five districts, I think that as it relates to representation we can more representation from the community. So, I am here on a good note. And, the good note is, that I feel that I think as leaders and I look at you as leaders on this Commission that you are going to make the right decision. And, the right decision is the fair decision. And, whatever decision that you do make, we don't have a choice in the matter outside of the courts to go along with that decision. But, I must say as we look at the City of Miami to continue existing in this City, I think we have to think of fairness. So, I would ask the Commission, I would live by this rule. Whatever, we have to say as it relates to the district plans, let's say it here where we can all see it and we can all understand it. But, when we all go back to corners and we start talking on radio and we start talking to the press and start dividing us, I think that's the wrong way to handle this. And, so I think that as we move along in this light of fairness, and we are all nodding our heads and saying we need to be fair, let's continue to be fair. And, whatever Kendrick Meek has to say to the Commission or on this issue, I will say to the Commission. Anything I say to the Commission, I'll say to the press. But, my main deal here is the five of you. I know Commissioner Plummer is not here, we are going to make the decisions on the plan. So, I want to thank you and I look forward to hopefully working with you from this point on, on hopefully coming up with a very good plan that we can all live with. Thank you, very much. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: I appreciate your input and statements very much, Representative Meek. And, thank you for being here today. Yes, sir. Reverend Michael Easly: Certainly, Mr. Mayor, and certainly to all the City officials here, Commissioners. I am the pastor of the St. Luke Missionary Baptist Church in the City of Miami and I am grateful to have persons who live in the City of Miami who are members of our church. I would just like for them to stand. You may be seated. Thank you, so very much. Especially to the Mayor and Humberto Hernandez, Amen. One of the issues that I am concerned about is basically those of you who are elected officials that the people voted for and placed you all in office that we would be fair. I had privilege of meeting Mr. Hernandez, who was in my office and I was able to see a young man who sense of directions and basically know where he want to go. But, I am kind of a little disturbed today, and the reason that I am disturbed today is because I feel that persons who are voted in by the people, they are voted in to do a job. You don't get an education to get a job, you get an education to do a job. It is quite clear that the Hispanic area, they are in great number and everybody wants what best for, I suppose, their people. But, we just can't look at one race, we just can't look at one ethnic group, we must look at holistically the people of the City of Miami. People who have labored, people who have worked hard and the people who basically look forward in you all making the right decision. I could see no other reason why you wouldn't want to be fair. You know, regardless of how many seats there are now. It seem that we would be for plan six to be able to have fair share and great representation. What is going to hinder? Who is going to hurt? It's not going to do anything to cause any of you headaches or pain. But, it is saying a lot, Mr. Mayor, to the City of Miami that, thank God, we have a Mayor who is fair, who is honest and who is for the people. That's all that we are concerned about. I feel personally and I haven't been here a long time, that you are a great Mayor. I have been with you on several occasions and what have you. I have listened to you talk and I have also watched you back up your plan, and now here we are with Commissioners here, in the City of Miami. Certainly, those persons who voted looked for you as well to do a job. And, when they see something different, you know, it makes them question your credibility, your character. It makes them question whether or not you were elected in office to do a good job or elected in office to do the things that basically you feel that is right. And, I think that to 26 July 1, 1997 have all of these people who are represented here today, and I know I had a lot to do today, but I took out time. I made the appeal on Sunday and I asked these people in the City of Miami to be here because I know they count heads. So, I am asking us if you will, to come to the realization and stop escaping from the present reality of life. You know, we could read between the lines, we basically know what's happening, you know. You know, we are not unlearned people. We know why plans was drawn up, Amen. But, I am asking, as a Godly man, as a minister of the cloth that we rethink this, we look at it and do what is right, because only what's right is going to last. Together we stand and divided we fall. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Mr. Bryant. Mr. Tony Bryant: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, to the dignitaries who are here this morning. My name is Tony Bryant. I reside at 1601 Southwest 2nd Avenue. I know that there are many of you who have never had the opportunity or the rnishapenstance perhaps of meeting me. And, some of you might know me just by way of media. But, I think it's time that when there is necessity for someone to attempt to bridge a gap to explain to both sides what needs to be explained and hopefully that there will be a consensus, or that we can reach an agreement. There are certain things that have to be mentioned this morning. Two things, very quickly. As we look across this nation, we are seeing two things that are happening in relation to ethnic struggles and fights going to the courts to assure representation. And, we are finding that many times those decisions that are taken by the voters are being overturned by the courts later on because they violate certain laws, legalities. We also find that there are many African - Americans being elected in predominantly White districts. I am going to give you for example, Dr. Anna Price who was recently elected Mayor of South Miami with a minority of Black constituencies. That's to say that Black people are certainly qualified to maintain to win any seat and to represent anyone, we are no less than anyone else. I want to direct two things to the Cuban community, of which I am very close, and I feel that I can speak very clearly to them and as I have told them many times, I don't bite my tongue. I don't have time to play games. I have risked my life many times for the Cuban community, for the Cuban cause, let's put it that way. So, I speak very clearly to them just as I speak to my African -American brothers and sisters. Two things that the Cuban community must understand from this moment on, number one, you owe a debt of gratitude to the African -American community because most of the civil rights which you enjoy today, we paid for with our blood... [APPLAUSE] we, paid for that with our struggle, we paid for that with our sacrifice. I want you to understand that and remember that. You owe a debt of gratitude to these African brothers and sisters, don't forget that, OK. That's number one. Number two, you know what it is to live in a nation where you have no representation, how can you dare to come here and think [APPLAUSE] that you cannot have any representation of the Black -American communities. You have lived under Castro, you know that you have no voice. And, so now, you have the chance to be fair and yet you want to, I don't know what you want. But, I am going to tell you, I have to criticize that attitude, you have lived under that. My African brothers and sisters, I wanted to address something to you. We, and as... and then after that, I am going to address the Commission itself. We, must do two things if we are to truly be able, want to be able to represent. Because, we have to think... I am very sorry and very saddened today, because no matter what plan is adopted, the whole... any time that is fractured and structured and separated becomes weaker. Anytime any divisions that are made it becomes weaker. And, in strength... in unity there is strength, not in divisionisms. Now they have to take people to court to force them to give you your rights. There was a great Black warrior, Cuban warrior Titan de Acero - Titan de Bronce (the bronze titan) who said "freedom is not begged for, you win it with the edge of a machete... Unidentified Speaker: Yes. Mr. Bryant: ... and take it." To prepare for your future brothers and sisters, I am going to tell you something. We are living in a part of the United States of America where there are 27 July 1, 1997 tremendous opportunities. In the year 2000, we will see tremendous opportunities due to the influx and due to the openings that we will have to Latin America. Prepare yourselves. If we want to have brothers and sisters who can represent the Cuban community, the Asian community, the Haitian community, the African -American community, the White community, prepare yourselves. We have to prepare cadres. We have to prepare young men and women who can speak three languages. Who can speak Spanish, who can speak Haitian, who can speak English and any other language because it's necessary. In this world today, you cannot exist speaking one language and wanting to represent the people. I know for a fact, you see, and Mr. Humberto Hernandez, who I backed in his latest, well when he became elected, stated that this seat has no color, and I agree. Those seats, none of them have colors nor nationalities. They should be awarded the person, you see, who is best qualified. But, everyone of those seats brings ! a requirement, brings a dignity, brings a demand. That, demand is that you are able to understand the people that you are supposed to represent. That demand means that you are able to understand their dreams and their aspirations, where they want to go. You have to have a plan, you have to have a formula and you have to have the understanding of what these people need. If you don't understand that, you don't deserve that position, you must evacuate that seat. Those are the things that I am here to tell you today brothers and sisters. Let's prepare ourselves and prepare our cadre, because we cannot continue to exist as we have in the past. We have to have our young men and women prepared to speak three, four, five languages so that they can sit in these seats and represent all of the community. We don't need to divide anymore, we need to come together as one people. We are preparing for a new opening, a new beginning. And, here we are still in this part of the country where we should be ashamed of ourselves where we have two people who have suffered tremendously throughout all... the last at least, at least the last 40 years tremendous sufferings. And, we cannot understand that it's through unity that we obtain victories and not through division. Thank you, very much ladies and gentlemen. Mayor Carollo: Mr. Bryant, thank you, very much for your time. [APPLAUSE] Ma'am. Dr. Michaelane Sims: I am Dr. Sims, Pastor of Believers Life Ministries in Miami, Florida. My address is 2200 Northwest 191st Street, Opa Locka. I stand here addressing the Commission today. I stand here on behalf of not only my Black sisters and brothers but, I stand here on behalf of this great City that I have resided in since 1958, and I love this City. I have seen many things, many negative things happen. I have been here through the different riots that we had in Liberty City. I love Liberty City. I love the residents of Liberty City. As a pastor and a leader, I realize that we must be united. If we are not united, if people are frustrated, if people feel that they are paying taxes without representation it presents frustration and negative behavior. I believe wholeheartedly that we do need to have a six member district. I am firmly in support of it. I heard someone say that perhaps we could have a Haitian representative. Perhaps we could have someone Black. We need someone to represent us. We need to know, I am not saying that you are not representing us. This is not you win, or you lose and I win situation. When we were voting it was I win or you win. But, in order for people to feel comfortable everyone needs to leave away from the situation feeling you win, I win. What happened to the mentality of people feeling good about themselves and feeling about their government? When I walk into the Jackson Memorial Hospital complex, I remember when Jackson Memorial... When I came in 1958, there were frame buildings there, it was nothing the way it is now. When I go into that complex now to make visitations, I look at it and I see my taxes at work and I feel good about it. I urge you to be considerate of the people, everyone in the community and know that we are not saying, we want to win and you lose. We are saying, we want proper representation because we are paying our taxes and we want to know that our taxes are working for us. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Before we proceed, I was letting people speak what they wanted because I only saw a handful of people that said they couldn't come back and they needed to speak. But, more and more people keep coming up, so we are going to have to go back then to the two minute rule that we always have on people to speak. Go ahead, sir. 28 July 1, 1997 vftj7�,#- 9 K Mr. Manuel Gonzalez-Goenaga: Yes, my name is Manuel Gonzalez-Goenaga. It is very unfortunate that the two minute rule starts with Mr. Boom -Boom. Because, I don't have... I, never invited in the Hispanic radio stations to speak my mind. And, I hope that they will give me some time. Well, the issue here is not about equity, believe it or not. The issue here is about fair play instead of foul play. Since I have been watching all these people, the committee, the task force. I wonder how many -- the expert task force -- how many of them are representatives from the different communities? Where do they live? If we want a professor, I am a kind of professor. But, I am a pragmatic professor. And, then to finish because I only have 49 seconds, f and I could write a book about all of this. The big anomaly is that being pragmatic there is no doubt that the Hispanics or Cubans, because among the Hispanics there are Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Colombians. The issue is my friend, that the Cubans are a majority in Miami, whether we like it or not. But, if that is the case, then the affirmative action, the first one on affirmative action should be the Anglo-Saxon Americans, because they are a minority in the City of Miami. Then, come the Black community and the Cubans should not be allowed in the City of Miami to have affirmative action because they are a majority. Thank you, very much. j [APPLAUSE] Reverend Rudolph Daniels: Mr. Mayor, and to the Commission and to all that are present. I am Pastor Rudolph Daniels, I pastor Masadonia Missionary Baptist Church, it's right here in Coconut Grove. It's 102 years old. Also, I am a member of the... for the East Coast Baptist Association, first vice president of the Southern Division Union Coconut Grove Ministerial Alliance, and the Baptist Ministers Council, PULSE (People United to Lead the Struggle for Equality). Also, I am a retired public school teacher. Not always, but I spent 23 years at Miami Jackson Senior High School, and I taught loth, 11th and 12th graders in the Auto Industry Shop. And, I feel that I have paid my dues and I still am. I grew up in Coconut Grove from 1941 right at Carver Senior High School. That's where I received my education. Also, in the institutions of this particular County. And, so I left home at 19, in 1949. Didn't care much... little children. And, I have been out of work for about maybe three weeks in all that time. And, so, taxation without representation, I feel and I know that, and the type of individual that I am and I believe that others should be - if a man doesn't work, he doesn't eat. And, that was the thing that was passed on to me by my South Carolina country parents from one years up over to 11 years. So, I have the country and then the City. Growing up in the City of Miami, Coconut Grove, then Overtown, then Liberty City. I spent 32 years in Liberty City and I am back into Grove as a pastor. So, I am a member of this community and I believe in the world of work and prepared men and women for the world of work. But, we are asking, since you know, I know what the work ethic really is. And, I know that has to passed on to our children and giving them the faith, introduce them to the living God. They must have faith or they will go off on the deep end. They must be introduced to the world of work and the work ethic, I wanted to say that. But, be fair. We live here, our eyes are open, we have the education, we read. And, so, just really be fair. So, I believe that the six district plan would give a better equal representation. All our people, we have heard that. So, I don't want to be redundant. But, all we want to do, you to do, is just to be fair. Just be fair. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Pastor. Unidentified Speaker: That's it, Reverend. Mayor Carollo: Yes, sir. Mr. Enos Schera: Mayor and Commissioners. My name is Enos Schera, taxpayer in the City of Miami. I am calling for six member voting districts and equal shares of voting power. Mayor Carollo: Can you give your address for the record, sir? We need it. It's part of the City policy. 29 July 1, 1997 411 Mr. Schera: Thirty-five Northeast 30th Terrace. Mayor Carollo: Thank you, sir. Mr. Schera: I am calling for six single member voting districts and equal shares of voting power by having two Hispanic, two Black and two White Commission seats. Three Hispanic Commissioners proposed in a six district plan would give the Hispanics an excessive amount of voting power which would be unfair and unequal to Black and White voters. Hispanics is 62 percent of the City of Miami's population which already makes them a majority. So, whoever heard of a majority demanding an increased majority. This would be analagous to getting two pieces of pie instead of one. U.S. born Black and White citizens have unfairly received divide and conquer politics by Hispanics demanding thousands of legal and illegal refugees to come to Miami from Spanish speaking countries to increase the Hispanic population and then demand more Commission seats using Hispanics language instead of color to increase the political power. Regarding the district in Dade County, the Miami Herald, March the Sth, 1992, page 4b, quotes Randy Duval, Assistant Dade County Attorney saying "the Voting Rights Act was enacted to address areas where official discrimination kept Blacks almost totally excluded from political office. That does not apply to Dade's Hispanics. The Hispanic community is not suffering today from a legacy of the past, purposeful discrimination. You show me a immigrant community that has amassed political, economic and social par more quickly than the Cuban community in Dade." That's from Assistant County Attorney. Regarding a Blue Ribbon Committee member, Miguel DeGrandy, representing Commissioner Regalado, it should be noted that Mr. DeGrande is a member of the Spanish-American League Against Discrimination, as quoted by the Miami Herald, January 31st, 1981 stating that their goals are placing members in strategic places of power - money, power, status and persistence. And I demand having two Hispanic, two Black and two White voting districts. And, if not that, I would say that I support the six district plan. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: You have two minutes, sir. Mr. Leon Worthy: Good morning, Mr. Mayor and Commissioners. My name Leon Worthy. I am with the St. Luke Missionary Baptist Church. I wanted to place on record my favorable... my district, the district plan that I favor and that is the plan that offers the six district breakdown. I feel that this gives proper representation to a greater number of people of the City of Miami. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Thank you, sir. Ms. Wilcox. Ms. Inez Wilcox: Good morning, Mr. Mayor. My name is Inez A. Wilcox. Mayor Carollo: Good to see you, Ms. Wilcox. Ms. Wilcox: And, I live at 4746 Northwest 10th Avenue. I didn't think that I would get up to say anything because my speech has been said over and over. I had it written when I came, but everyone has said basically what I want to say but, I want to stand up here and say, you know why I am here, I am in support of the six district plan. But, the thing that bothers me, I keep hearing people say, you know, we might as well present something to you that we think will pass, the six member district plan won't pass. And, why are they saying this? Because, the people who are in the majority are going to vote it down. So, then we will end up in the courts, won't we? I mean, why can't we solicit cooperation from a people who came to Miami because of being oppressed and found people here who were oppressed. So, why do you want to come here and keep us oppressed. 30 July 1, 1997 Unidentified Speaker: That's it. Ms. Wilcox: All we are asking for is a fair share of government. I am here this morning with my son and my grandchildren who I would like to see have voice in government. I don't want them to face taxation without representation. I want them to be able to have a part of this government. I, too, Mr. Hernandez was born in Miami and I have been here all of my life except for the time that I spent away from school. I understand, yes, you are my representative. I was bothered when you were elected to our district naturally because that left me off the Commission. I want somebody on this Commission who knows about my problem. People who are out there with me... Unidentified Speaker: That's right. Ms. Wilcox: ... people who are coming to see about my problems. Whenever there is a Meek elected or a Carrey elected, even... Unidentified Speaker: Bush. Ms. Wilcox: Yes, a Bush elected. The one who stood here and battled for dear life last Tuesday night. And, I learned some things by the way about... Does this mean I am through? I learned some things about our parliamentary procedure last Tuesday night that I never heard before. All kind of rules, all kind of things coming up. Folk, we simply want a piece of the pie. We want representation. In this thing, you know, you learned it in school. Taxation without representation, who wants that? My good friend, Mr. Mayor, I appeal to you and the rest of the members of the Commission, please, when you make your decision, think about people who were oppressed when you... when so many of your people came over. If he was born here, then that means he was already here. But, he knew about it. And, I would like to see some more color on your Commission. Color is beautiful. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Ms. Wilcox. Mr. Robert Jackson: Good morning, Mr. Mayor... Mayor Carollo: Yes, sir. Mr. Jackson: ... Commission. I thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak before the Commission this morning. I have a few problems here. As of Saturday morning, Commissioner Hernandez was saying that 95 percent of... Mayor Carollo: Can we get your name and address for the record, please? Mr. Jackson: Robert Jackson... Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Mr. Jackson: ... 3000 Northwest 77th Street. He had a big concern about communities being cut in half. Spanish communities being cut in half. And, well I see the maps are gone now. But, what I want, what I want him to explain to me was, how can he draw up a map that divides Overtown so that Overtown wouldn't have any kind of power. You know, Overtown is suffering as it is now. Also, Mr. Hernandez, if you would answer questions for me, here. When you were elected, you were elected to serve the people of Miami. We have at -large voting. I want to read something what I read out of the Miami Herald a Sunday morning. And, I was very appalled. You know, people are hinting around these things at you, but I want to direct it to you and maybe you can make me feel better. I understand... Why would you get on a Spanish language 31 July 1, 1997 radio station last week and inflame the Spanish community of the fact, telling them that they... if they went with the six district plan they will be represented by a Black Commissioner? Can you explain to me Mr. Commissioner, as a Commissioner of the people, not just the Spanish people, can you explain to me why did you do that" You know, I... You know, I understand... Oh, OK. Mayor Carollo: You have got some time left. Well, you did. Your time is up. The Commissioner wants to answer you. He certainly has the right to. Mr. Jackson: OK, thank you. So, I wont get an answer for that. Commissioner Hernandez: You want me to get into it? Mayor Carollo: It's totally up to you, Commissioner. Your time is up, thank you, sir. Mr. Jackson: Yes, I understand. But, I need an answer. 1 Commissioner Hernandez: So, we don't take things out of context, let me explain to you exactly what I was explaining to the public, Saturday morning. Under the 6-2C plan, this is about equal representation, one man, one vote and we have to follow guidelines. Under 6-2C, 35,000 Hispanic -Americans will be disenfranchised by this plan. It's that simple. Mr. Jackson: I can't understand how. Commissioner Hernandez: We are not the... Excuse me? Mr. Jackson: I can't understand how. Commissioner Hernandez: I'll explain it to you very simple. Mr. Jackson: ... because you have the majority. Commissioner Hernandez: Very simple. Give me a second. District 6-2C. District 1, which is an African -American district, 17,594 Hispanic -Americans are in that district. Mr. Jackson: It still gives you three districts. Commissioner Hernandez: Hold on, let me give... Let me explain. District IV and V, Hispanic - American districts, 191 African -Americans are only there. Where is the disenfranchising is my question? And, to finish... Mr. Jackson: But, we are... Commissioner Hernandez: And, to finish what I was trying to explain. When you look at the overall population, it's very simple. There is so much we can stretch the population. It's as simple as that. We are disenfranchising a group -- an ethnic group -- OK? on behalf of another ethnic group. That's what we cannot do. My whole purpose here is to spread this as evenly as possible without disenfranchising -- OK? A total population. You have 35,000 Hispanic - Americans that have been left without any commonality of interest. And, I ask you this because it was taken out of context and I will answer Reverend Coats with what he mentions here. I did not say the African -American community was trying to take care of... take over Jose Marti Park. All I said was, that under the districts what had been drawn on 6-2C, Jose Marti Park was in the heart of Little Havana would be represented in an African -American district. And, I ask you, how would the African -American population feel if Charles Hadley Park would be in the middle of a Hispanic -American district? 32 July 1, 1997 ': i; Mr. Jackson: Well, right now the way it's going... Commissioner Hernandez: And, I remember, I remember correctly, OK? And, I want to end with this. That the African -American community told me that they could not be represented by someone that did not look like them. Mr. Jackson: But, we are. Commissioner Hernandez: OK, so now you are telling me totally the opposite. Mr. Jackson: Yeah, but we are being represented by you. Commissioner Hernandez: That's absolutely right. Mr. Jackson: Yeah, that's why we are trying to get district elections. Commissioner Hernandez: And, this young lady that came here, I was represented and I am elected Citywide, not by a district. So, I represent the entire City of Miami as well as every Commissioner who sits on this board. And, every time, and I am not going to get into a debate with the African -American community. Every time, the African -American community has knocked on my door, I have been there for them and I have a list of things, and I am not going to get into this right now. Of every single thing I have done for the African -American community. So, if this is goirig to be taking care of me, I'll debate this all the way to the end with you, OK. Mayor Carollo: Sir, two minutes, please. Mr. Jackson: Uh-huh, all right, OK. But, I go with 6-2C. Thank you. Mayor Carollo: Thank you, sir. Two minutes. Thank you. Mr. Williams Wallace: It wouldn't take me two minutes. My name is William Wallace and I reside at 1032 Northwest 35th Street for 30 years. And, I am in favor of the 6-2 plan. Thank you. Mayor Carollo: Thank you, sir. Sir. Mr. Clarence Williams: Good morning, Commissioners, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Go ahead. Mr. Williams: I... In response to what the gentleman said in front of me, I don't like the devisive nature of the conversation that just took place. But, Joe and Willie, I just saw you just left here, I know both of you and I have known you for some time. I trust you, Joe, to lead this Commission and do the right thing. When you look at the makeup of this Commission and people were talking about the disenfranchising of 35,000 Hispanic people. But, when you look at the makeup of this Commission and you look at the population of Blacks in the City of Miami, who is being disenfranchised? Unidentified Speaker: That's it. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, I trust you to do the right thing. Mayor Carollo: Thank you for being here today. We will reconvene at 11:00 a.m. 33 July 1, 1997 Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, if I may say something because some of you will not probably be back and we will see other faces here. But, I am really troubled by some of the people that have spoken here regarding the fact that Cubans came to this City and the fact that we do not want representation from other communities. I am really troubled and I am sad because when an election took place on September and that I had the opportunity of running for this seat, I did campaign in every community and yet, I was not supported by the Afro-American community. As a matter of fact, I was told by a very dear friend of mine, an Afro-American journalist, a guy who I respect, that although he thought that I was best, he could not support me publicly because that will create problems for him in his community. And, yet in November I, my wife, my daughter went to the radio, to the Cuban radio, went to the polls, to the Cuban polls and campaigned for the Afro-American representative in this Commission. I think that if we are going to talk about fairness, you should remember those things because I was criticized by my community. But, I thought at that time I did the right thing. So, don't come here to talk about fairness, especially a person that came here and sort of you sir, sort of... yes, you. You know, if we are talking here about unity, why divide? If we want to have equal representation why criticize? If we want to be like brothers, why punish the people who happen to come here seeking freedom? So, I am really concerned about the way that this issue is going because it seems that every time we go on discussing, we are more divided than united. And, Mr. Mayor, that's all I wanted to say. And, we will be here listening to the communities and saying here the same thing that we say on the media, we say on the street. Mayor Carollo: Ma'am, you will be the last speaker then. Ms. Maude Pitter: It's short. It's... Mayor Carollo: Two minutes. And, then we will reconvene at eleven. Ms. Maude Pitter: Thank you. Good morning to the Commission, good morning to the public. My name is Maude Pitter and I reside at 3160 Mundy Street. I just want to say I support the 6- 2C plan and we are just here to ask you to please be fair and it would be nice to have some representation from Coconut Grove. Mayor Carollo: Thank you, ma'am. OK, we will reconvene at eleven in the morning. OK, thank you. THEREUPON THE CITY COMMISSION WENT INTO RECESS AT 9:35 A.M. AND RECONVENED AT 11:43 A.M., WITH ALL MEMBERS OF THE CITY COMMISSION FOUND TO BE PRESENT. Commissioner Plummer: I would like to remind all of you and to all of the members of the public and my colleagues on the Commission, your party Friday, is the 4th of July. We would like to have all of you there, if possible, at eight o'clock in the evening for a special salute and the public is invited. It's an all day affair. It's a City event. It starts at noon and goes to the climax at eleven with a fireworks display. We will have three stages going all day long. Something for everybody. So, again, to my colleagues, we would like if you can to be there at eight o'clock at the amphitheater stage and to everybody else you are welcome all day long. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Commissioner. So, truly you are popping out of the cake or..." Commissioner Plummer: With my clothes on. 34 July 1, 1997 ,t� Vice Mayor Regalado: And, we all like fireworks anyway. Commissioner Plummer: I'll give you the real one. Mayor Carollo: OK, we have a full Commission now. And, I think everyone that was going to be coming back is now here. Where would the Commission like to begin? Commissioner Gort: Are we finished hearing from the public? Mayor Carollo: Well, we had heard from the public, other people that were here. Now, there is obviously after we get done deliberating, there might be others that might want to speak and they will certainly have that right and opportunity to speak. Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, David Leahy has given us some figures about the voters in Miami. Maybe, you would like Mr. Leahy to explain to the audience these figures. Mayor Carollo: Sure. Mr. Leahy. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, what I would like after Mr. Leahy finishes, I would like for Professor Lichtman to give some explanation about the legal ramifications and we also have the attorneys represented here and they can go over some of the things we had dealt with in the past. Mayor Carollo: OK, that's fine. Commissioner Gort: And, what are the different options for this Commission Mayor Carollo: Uh-huh. Mr. Leahy. Mr. David Leahy: As of July 1st, today there are 132,275 registered voters in the City of Miami. Twenty-one point four percent are non -Hispanic White, 26 percent non -Hispanic Black, 50 percent Hispanic. Point one percent American -Indian or Alaskan native. Point two percent Asian or Pacific Islander and two point three percent we do not know their ethnicity or race since it's not required that they provide that information when they register to vote. Just as background information. I know the Commission knows this but not everybody does. Prior to January 1st, 1995 when you registered to vote, you registered as White, Black or other. My office to try to get a handle on a number of Hispanics that we had in this County, anybody that was born in a predominantly Spanish speaking country or Puerto Rico was listed as Hispanics. So, Hispanics were designated based on place of birth. After January 1st, 1995 when the National Voter Registration Act went into effect, voters who are registering for the first time, or voters who are changing their registration now have the ability to designate themselves what categories to place themselves in. Commissioner Plummer: Well, I asked the other day. Humberto is an example. Humberto is of Cuban parents, born in Miami. Would he be listed as a Hispanic for voting registration or would he be an Anglo? Mr. Leahy: If he registered prior to January 1st, 1995, he would be listed as non -Hispanic White. Commissioner Plummer: And after then, he has the choice of registering the way he wishes? Is that...? Mr. Leahy: That's correct. So... 35 July 1, 1997 Commissioner Plummer: So, there is no definitive or definite answer there because the choice is of the individual. Mr. Leahy: After January 1st, 1995, the choice is of the individual. So, basically what you have in these statistics, Hispanics are under counted, because some Hispanics born in this Country who registered before 1995 are listed as Anglo. Commissioner Plummer: What is your...? Mr. Leahy: And, the Anglo is over -represented because you have Hispanics that are listed as Anglo. Commissioner Plummer: Are we not look also David at the fact of a tremendous surge of new registered voters by virtue of the things that are coming out of Washington? Mr. Leahy: Yes, you are. Commissioner Plummer: And, I would say that probably 80 or 90 percent of those new are going to be Hispanic, without question, because it affects the elderly of the Cuban community or the Hispanic community. So, I would assume that the surge we are probably going to see within the next 12 months is going to be within that community. Mr. Leahy: Absolutely. All groups are increasing in registration primarily because of the National Voters Registration Act. But, Hispanic registration as you say, is the predominant one in terms of numbers. So, therefore, the Hispanic percentage is the one that's going up, going by leaps and bounds. Commissioner Plummer: Maybe, I am on a different key. But, the key I was on, was the fact that a lot of the Hispanics, the elderlies who had never become even a citizen were in fact going to be losing their medicare and losing welfare and everything they had enjoyed, that are now going to have to become a citizen and most likely a registered voter to continue on the benefits that they had received previously. And, that's I think you are going to see a tremendous surge in the Hispanic registration. Mr. Leahy: You are absolutely right, Commissioner. Vice Mayor Regalado: Like for instance, David, the other day there were about 10,000 new citizens sworn in, in Convention Hall in Miami Beach. There were some registration tables and my information was that three or 4,000 out of the 10,000 did register to vote in that area. And, there were buses from different community centers in the City of Miami who then you would presume, indeed a lot of people or some of the people that registered are City of Miami residents. This is until July, as of July? Mr. Leahy: This is as of today. Vice Mayor Regalado: As of today. Mr. Leahy: And, we probably have a back log of... Vice Mayor Regalado: I was going to ask you that because... Mr. Leahy:... four or 5,000 registrations... Vice Mayor Regalado: Right. 36 July 1, 1997 Mr. Leahy: ... that we have not processed yet. Vice Mayor Regalado: Right. I was... Exactly. I was going to ask you that because I know that you closed the books so each month, at the end of the month, but you still have some backlog to process. How many you said you still have. Mr. Leahy: Probably about three or 4,000 that we haven't processed. Right now, we are seeing about 10,000 registration forms a month arriving at my office. And, probably a good half of those are coming out of the naturalization hearings. Vice Mayor Regalado: Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: And, of that 10,000 a month, what would you say the percentage of that is Hispanic? Mr. Leahy: I would probably say about 60 to 65 percent are Hispanics. Vice Mayor Regalado: But, remember this is the... He is talking about the County, the whole County. Mr. Leahy: Correct. Vice Mayor Regalado: And, the percentages for the City of Miami. Mr. Leahy: It will probably be a little bit higher in Hispanic. Probably, close to 70 percent. Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Carollo: Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Leahy. Commissioner Gort. Commissioner Gort: Can we hear from Professor Lichtman? Mayor Carollo: Professor? Dr. Allan Lichtman: Yes. Let me say, I worked with David Leahy many times and I am always very impressed by the amount of work he is able to do in such a short period of time. Yes, what question would you like me to answer. Commissioner Gort: Mainly, we want you to go over the... Once again, as short as you can, a summary of all the procedures we go through, what have the courts looked at, and what has been your experience since you have been involved in over 70 cases throughout the nation? If you can give us some of the experience, we are new at this. This is the first time we are going at this and I want to make sure everybody understands that this is not as simple as it seems. Dr. Lichtman: No, it's not simple. There are a lot of requirements. Let me go over some of the major requirements again. Obviously, the paramount requirement is one person one vote. That does not mean exact population, equality for local districting plans like this one. There would be, obviously, different standards if we were doing a congressional. Can I use this, is this mike alive? It would be obviously different standards if we are using a congressional. Roughly, the rule of thumb for a local plan is, you can go five percent over the ideal number, five percent below the ideal number and still be within a safety zone. It doesn't mean that if you exceed that, it will automatically be declared unconstitutional. But, you are safe if you stay within the plus and minus five percent. Secondly, of course, there is the Voting Rights Act which requires that a 37 July 1, 1997 ilk. plan does not dilute opportunities for minority groups within the jurisdiction to be able to elect candidates of their choice. It doesn't necessarily mean candidates of a particular racial or ethnic background, it means candidates of the choice of the voters themselves. There are also new constitutional requirements developed by the Supreme Court during the past four years which require that a plan not be drawn predominantly on the basis of race. So, on the one hand, you don't want to dilute minority opportunities in violation of the Voting Rights Act. On the other hand, you need to steer clear of drawing plans predominantly based upon race. We drew these plans, and this is very important to understand, without looking at the racial numbers. We drew the plans based upon the neighborhood maps that we were provided by the City based upon socioeconomic commonalities. Also, within the maps provided by the City we tried to make the districts reasonably compact within trying to have one person one vote, neighborhood boundaries and socioeconomic commonalities. We only looked at ethnic and racial breakdowns after the lines were themselves drawn because it is of course relevant to the Voting Rights Act to see what kind of opportunities any given plan provides for minorities within the City and of course it is relevant for the people of the City to see all of the information which includes the racial and ethnic breakdowns of each individual district. We developed no plans based on our own initiative. All plans were developed based on instructions either from the Blue Ribbon Committee or from this Commission. We, therefore, constructed plans with the following number of single member districts. Four single member districts, six single member districts and most recently five single member districts. All those plans to the best of our ability, conform to the neighborhood maps, not perfectly. No plan ever perfectly conforms to lines on a map because there are other considerations such as one person, one vote, which do not necessarily match lines on a map because people live in different concentrations. So, to whatever extent we could, we conform to neighborhood lines and socioeconomic commonalities in drawing the four, the five and the six member plans. All of those were drawn at the instruction of this Commission or the Blue Ribbon Committee. And, what thus far seems to have emerged from the committee discussions, the public input and the Commission discussions is that what appears to be favored now is either a four, a five or a six based upon the basic idea of one coastal district. That's sort of a fundamental decision you have to make in drawing a plan, whether you divide the coast into parts, or have a coastal district based upon keeping some of those neighborhoods in tact and uniting people with common socioeconomic characteristics. All plans have both a coastal district and divide the coast, although as I said the input seems to suggest some model favoring a coastal district. Presuming you have a coastal district, all of our plans with four, five and six members include districts which provide in our view opportunities for African - Americans, Hispanics and Anglos within the City of Miami to elect at least one Commissioner of their choice. I will repeat that. All plans whether four, five or six districts based on a coastal district include at least one district which in our view provides and opportunity for African - Americans, Anglos and Latinos to elect candidates of their choice. Depending upon which of the configuations four, five or six you look at there can be differences in the numbers of those districts. But, all plans provide such an opportunity. I was also asked to comment on the legal defensibility I believe of the six member plan and the five member plan in terms of legal considerations. All plans conform to one person, one vote. All plans I believe follow the Supreme Court stricture that you are not to base a plan predominantly upon racial considerations. As I said, we didn't even look at the racial numbers when we first drew the lines. the more significant question is, the relationship of the plans to the Voting Rights Act. Do they provide opportunities for minorities within the City to elect candidates of choice. As we know, the City is slightly over 60 percent Hispanic in total population, about 12 or 13 percent Anglo and about a quarter African -American. The law, the way case law has come down in the Voting Rights Act does not require you to exactly fulfill opportunities, districts with opportunities for different groups to elect candidates of their choice in those exact' proportions but it certainly does help the defensibility of the plan if roughly they provide ethnic groups opportunities in proportion to the population. The six district plan provides two districts with opportunities for African -Americans to elect candidates of their choice, that's one third, they are about 25 percent. Three districts that provide opportunities for Hispanics, that's 50 percent and one district about 16 percent that 38 July 1, 1997 provides an Anglo opportunities. If you add on a Mayor with voting power, as you probably would have to in a six district plan, in a City that's 62 percent Hispanic that would in effect provide another member of the Commission that would provide opportunities for Hispanics to elect the candidates of their choice. Four out of seven or about 56 or 57 percent. So, I believe the... Mayor Carollo: If I may interrupt you for a moment, and I just want to get this on the record. I am against an executive Mayor that would have dual powers to sit and vote in a Commission and to have veto powers. First of all, fundamentally it's wrong. Secondly of all, I think it could be challenged in everything that we would have accomplished could be out the door again. Because I think there are some major legal flaws with that concept where you would have a sort of, what some are calling a super executive Mayor, a super strong Mayor. Dr. Lichtman: I wasn't at all suggest that. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, I would like to make a statement. And, I think that motion was passed around ten o'clock in the evening after we have been here for several hours and I think that we have two members of the... I am sure that was not the intention of the motion. Somehow, it might have been addressed that way then, but I am sure it was not... Mayor Carollo: No, the... Yeah, the basic contention behind it I thought, was a reasonable one coming from the Committee, that basically they did not want to enlarge the Commission anymore than what it was because they realized I think that there might be some additional problems, and the perception with the public in a larger Commission and they were trying to find a way to keep it within a certain size. Six plus one, four plus one. Dr. Lichtman: I agree with you completely. I was in no way suggesting a super Mayor. I was simply saying, if you had a six district plan you would have to have some other at large component in order to create an odd number of districts. I am certainly not advocating, and I think a Mayor both with voting and veto power. And, I think I explained to the committee that I was not familiar with any municipality or County that had that system. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just is not one that is a common one. So, I think the six district plan with a coastal district is certainly defensible. With respect to the five district plan, you also do get fairly, at least rough proportionality in terms of the various ethnic and racial groups within the City. There are... and I am looking at 5-2 now, the plan using tracts, but they are very similar in both respects. You have three districts that are very heavily Hispanic that would certainly provide the Hispanic community opportunities to elect candidates of their choice. That's 60 percent of the districts. You have one district that is very heavily Black that would certainly provide African -Americans an opportunity to elect candidates of their choice. That's 20 percent of the districts. And, you have one district that is mixed and certainly would provide because they will be the plurality group in terms of registered voters. Although, as David Leahy point out, there may be some... those who identify as Hispanics among the White registered voters. But, even given that, they would still be the plurality group among registered voters that provides Anglos and opportunity to elect candidates of their choice. But, it is also a district, and I am referring to District II here, the coastal district. It is also a district with significant African - American influence. African -Americans are 27 percent of the voting age population of that district and would be well over 30 percent, about a third of the registered voters in the district. So, while it's certainly not a district that is likely to provide African -Americans by themselves opportunities to elect candidates of their choice, I don't think anyone could run in that district without some consideration to the African -American community. So, I think the 5-2 plan as we developed it, and it's not etched in stone, the lines can be moved without changing the basic fundamentals, do provide all the ethnic and racial groups within the City opportunities to elect candidates of their choice and influence the political process. Now, to say a plan is legally defensible doesn't mean it's the best plan, doesn't mean there aren't better plans. There are 39 July 1, 1997 infinite number of plans. And, I can understand why different individuals and different groups might prefer one plan over another. I might have my own preferences, but with respect to the more limited question, do I believe 5-2 and plan 6-2C are legally defensible? I believe, they both are. That does not mean that a judge might come to a different conclusion, but I believe you are on legally defensible grounds with both plans even if you slightly modify them because the basic demographics remain the same. Commissioner Gort: Thank you, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Would you speak to the plan by Commissioner Hernandez? Dr. Lichtman: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: Do you feel that that is legally defensible? Dr. Lichtman: I do feel that the plan developed by Commissioner Hernandez is legally defensible. It creates three districts with opportunities for Hispanics to elect candidates of their choice. Three districts that are two-thirds or more Hispanic. So even in registered voter numbers they would be majority Hispanic district. It creates one district that's clearly, overwhelmingly African -American. And, it also creates a district that does provide some opportunities for non -Latin Whites of Anglos to elect candidates of their choice and that will be in District I. I don't have voting age population numbers, so it's a little bit more difficult for me to interpret the district. There is one difference though, that is, District I under what is titled the "Hernandez plan" as compared to District II, the coastal district, -- yeah, this is the Hernandez plan -- their district, coastal district is number one. The one drawn up by Dr. Wilson and myself are coastal district is number two. That's really the only major difference and it's a small one, but there is a difference. And, that is, it reduces African -American influence in the district. Under the plan that Dr. Wilson and I drew, the population of African -Americans, this is the population because I only have population data for the Hernandez plan and that's the only basis I have for comparison. The population under the consultants plan for African -American population in the district is 32 percent. The population under the Hernandez plan is 24 percent. So, it's eight percentage points lower. So, if it's... And in turn of course, the Hispanic population is eight or nine percentage points higher. So, you have a decision to make about how much African -American influence you would create in the coastal district under the two different plans. Mayor Carollo: And, while we are still on five districts, on both the 5-1 districts and 5-2 district tracts, how much of Overtown is being divided, taken out of district one? Dr. Lichtman: Can you get that map up, David and... Mayor Carollo: Maybe, Donna, if you have someone here that, you know, could assist him also in identifying for them the areas that we are talking about in Overtown. Dr. Lichtman: Let me explain again, to the public the differences between these two maps. They are essentially the same, except 5-1 is based on blocks the smallest census geography. Five two is based on tracts a much larger census geography. So, you are able to do a little more fine tuning of a plan with blocks and as a result, I think we got just about all of Overtown. Mayor Carollo: Yeah, and the reason I am asking that... Unidentified Speaker: ... neighborhood maps? Dr. Lichtman: Yeah, we have neighborhood maps. ►,# July 1, 1997 Mayor Carollo: ... is because if any of these five districts is going; to be considered, you have sufficient room to put all of Overtown in District I because District I in either one of these plans is slightly under the average amount of the other districts in population. So, in fact you would even balance it out more by putting all of Overtown in District I. Dr. Lichtman: The only reason all of Overtown is not in one, in 5-2, is we didn't split census tracts. All you have to do would be to split one census track and you could have the same configuration under the tract plan as we have under the block plan. Mayor Carollo: Do you...? Dr. Lichtman: So, it's quite easy... Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Dr. Lichtman: So, it's quite easy to include all of Overtown provided you got to split a census track. Mayor Carollo: Yeah, do you have any idea of how many people we would be talking about, more or less, in that particular area, you split it, two or three thousand, maybe? Dr. Lichtman: At most. Mayor Carollo: OK. Dr. Lichtman: At most, I would think. Mayor Carollo: Yeah, which would fall within the guidelines, what we are working on. Dr. Lichtman: We can... If you are going to split the tract there, we could adjust it to fall within the guidelines. Mayor Carollo: I would be in favor of doing that, if we were to consider either one of those two plans for districts. Dr. Lichtman: It's already done on 5-1, because that's based on blocks. We can certainly do it... Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Dr. Lichtman: ... on 5-2, if you decide you want 5-2. Mayor Carollo: OK, on 5-1 it is complete done already, or not? Dr. Lichtman: I believe it's completely done. Mayor Carollo: Five one is completely done. So you just need to do it on the other one if the Commission were to consider that? Dr. Lichtman: That's correct, Mr. Mayor. Commissioner Plummer: And, how does that compare into this plan of Henandez? Dr. Lichtman: Can we bring the Hernandez plan up, it's too hard to work with... 41 July 1, 1997 Mayor Carollo: Overtown is completely out in the Hernandez plan. Dr. Lichtman: I believe Overtown is in the majority Hispanic district in the Hernandez plan. Commissioner Plummer: It becomes part of what? Commissioner Gort: Allapattah. Commissioner Plummer: Allapattah? Dr. Lichtman: It's in District V which is, believe is a 67 percent Hispanic district. There are a number of... aside from the demographic differences between 5-2 and the Hernandez plan, there are some neighborhood differences as well. If you want me to go over them, I will. But, if... You do? OK. Mayor Carollo: Uh-huh, sure. Dr. Lichtman: You already pointed out one of the major differences, which is that Overtown under the Hernandez plan is in with Allapattah and it goes over and also picks up a piece of Flagami. This... I think the line for the neighborhood of Flagami - David, am I correct? -- is right here. Mr. Leahy: Yes. Dr. Lichtman: So, all of these tracts which is a substantial population is in with Overtown and Allapattah. On this plan you can see Overtown is almost entirely and can be put entirely in District I, which is the majority African -American district. And, there is no splitting of Flagami and no splitting of Allapattah. There is a split of Allapattah on the Hernandez plan. On the other hand, the plan the consultants came up with does pull out a piece of Little Haiti which goes into District II. In order to create population for District II, and that's why also it has a greater African -American representation. The Hernandez plan keeps Wynwood Edgewater in tact within District I, and gets additional population by going up into Coral Way, which is why the Hernandez plan has more Hispanic population in District I, and the consultants plan has relatively more African -American population in District I. Generally, as well as that neighborhood analysis, you can see the Hernandez plan creates districts that stretch much more on an East to West direction within the City. District V just about stretches across the City. Whereas the consultants plan is a more north -south configuration. We wanted to try to keep Flagami because it is such a large and geographically clear area into a single district, which puts some of West Little Havana in the Flagami district and we have a district that's substantially Coral Way and some of East Little Havana and another one that's substantially Allapattah. So, it's more of a north south, this is more of an east west configuration. Commissioner Plummer: You know the problem? I don't care what we do today, there is no win win. Dr. Lichtman: Well, there is never a perfect plan. There is an infinite number of variations, and some folks will be more happy with one over the other. Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but basically what you are talking... Dr. Lichtman: That's why we have you folks. Commissioner Plummer: What you are talking about, if you take one district and you squeeze the balloon it moves over here and then the balloon moves over there. You are moving... 42 July 1, 1997 Y- Dr. Lichtman: Inevitably. Commissioner Plummer: You are moving boundaries everywhere you go. Dr. Lichtman: Which is why, to the extent we... You know, we come in here with no interest, you know, no interest one way or the other. We tried as best we could to conform to the neighborhoods and conform to the socioeconomics and to make sure that all the groups have opportunities and influence and within the parameters of a five district plan. I think, you know, we have come about as close as you can. You create more districts, you have got more play. You create fewer districts, you have less play. I mean, that's the way it works. You give me 15 districts, you know you can fine tune them to every little group. Seven you have more play, of course. That's the inevitable mathematics of it. Commissioner Plummer: Where are we? Mayor Carollo: What further questions does the members of the Commission have? Commissioner Hernandez: Doctor, just one last question. Really, a point of clarification and we discussed this in the morning, but I still don't understand why you used and the relevance on voting age population. Because, I go back to my discussion with you of what relevance, due to the fact of, for example, we have voting age population, Hispanics which are non -citizens, which are not documented and therefore really don't come into place as a registered voter at the same time or as an example could be the thousands of Nicaraguans which are of voting age, which are now really under a preceding, a deportation in the United States law. So, what is...? I have never really seen the use of Voting age population in breaking down these districts. Dr. Lichtman: It's a very good question. I guess we'll have the same collogy we had this morning. I'll try to be as responsive as I can, Commissioner Hernandez. Obviously, when you are dealing with population, you are at many steps removed from registered voters. The first step at which you are removed is that only persons 18 and over are even eligible to vote regardless of their citizenship, felon status, or anything else. And, it turns out the age groups are not evenly distributed within the population. In particular, if we will only look at total population and not voting age population we will overestimate the African -American component because African -Americans in this City relative to Anglos and Hispanics are younger. So, in the 5-2 plan, the Black population is 32 percent but the Black voting age population is only 26.6 percent. So, we get one step closer to the reality of voters by moving from total population to voting age population. The next step of course, would then be, and this is a very difficult step to do with precision as Mr. Leahy pointed out to go from there to citizen voting age population or even from there to registered voters. And, so we don't have exact calculations of that. And, as Mr. Leahy pointed out, even our registered voter numbers somewhat undercount Hispanics and somewhat overcount Anglos. And, so we stopped at the point of those populations that are 18 and over but, we applied some rough rules of thumb. So, we know if the district is roughly divided between 36 percent Anglos and 36 percent Hispanics, then when you get to registered voters, in fact, it is going to be over 40 percent Anglo and somewhere in the middle of the high 20s Hispanics. So, while we stop in terms of the actual statistics of registered voters, in terms of the final step of evaluating opportunities within the district, we certainly take into account, at least rough estimates of precisely what you are talking about. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Plummer. Does the...? Commissioner, you want to ask him any more questions? Commissioner Gort: Let me ask a question, that's being suggested by some individuals. And, I know we are looking at the size of the Commission, but at the same time we are looking trying to 43 July 1, 1997 P .1... see how many neighborhoods we can maintain together. What will be the feasibility, and this is something the Commission will have to analyze and look at the budget. And, I think if we go into the districts, we might be able to cut some of the budget looking at seven. Dr. Lichtman: We can create a seven. I have stressed... I mean, for months now that we can create whatever you request us to create. If you saying you want a seven based upon this 5-2 configuration, it wouldn't be all that difficult to create a seven district plan based on a five, excuse me, based on the six... You have that plan, the six, the latest six plan we drew? I have forgotten the numbers now, 6-2 C, I believe. Give me the blocks because it's just a little more refined. It's just a matter of creating an additional district, which would almost certainly be a Hispanic majority district given the demographics of the City. So, you would have a four Hispanic majority district carved somewhere in this area which you would probably do is, the district now based on Model City and the district now based on Little Haiti would not come as far south as they do. You cut a line at the river here and cut a line, I don't know exactly where, because I haven't studied the seven until you mentioned it this moment. But, cut another line there and then build an additional Hispanic majority district without a whole lot of modifications of this basic configuration. So, yes, technically that is something we can do, and most likely will produce four majority Hispanic, two majority African -American and a similar Anglo plurality coastal district. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Does that mean, Reverend Phillips that you don't want the 6-2 C, anymore? Reverend Phillips: We want 6-2C, but you don't want 6-2C, so... Commissioner Plummer: Well, I guess I have got to ask a question. If you break down the population, you are looking at basically 60, 25 and 20. Dr. Lichtman: Little less. Twelve or 13. Commissioner Plummer: OK, how would you stop a Hispanic from screaming bloody murder on a five member district if they didn't get 60 percent or three votes? Dr. Lichtman: Are you addressing that to me? Commissioner Plummer: I mean, yeah, I am just... I am trying to maybe, you know, I am trying to work into this thing because there is no simple answer here. You have got registered voters as a criteria, you have got population as a criteria, you have got a City that's so diversed that it's incredible. But, to me, if you went, how do you say to the Hispanics that you are 60 percent, that you are not entitled to three, one and one? I... Dr. Lichtman: Yeah, I... Commissioner Plummer: If you go on population, even if you go on registered voters, how do you deny them the right of three? Now, you can argue about the other two, but if they are 60 percent of the population, it would seem to me that their right would be to 60 percent or three votes. Now, tell me where I am wrong or where that doesn't. hold water? Dr. Lichtman: Yeah, I can respond to that. In terms of drawing a five... Can you put up the 5-2 again? I am making David work here. In terms of a five district plan, and remember we do not draw this to create racial districts, we draw it on the basis of the neighborhoods, we draw it on the basic of socioeconomics. 44 July 1, 1997 A6 d�if`�'e•?:iit Commissioner Plummer: Let me stop you for one minute. Dr. Lichtman: Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: Am I to assume that Hispanics are still for configuration in this Voter Act, as minorities? Dr. Lichtman: That is correct. Hispanics are covered under the Voting Rights Act as well as... Commissioner Plummer: OK. I mean, I am the only true minority in this town left, all right. But, that's not the point. I don't count as far as federal statistics and this is concern. Dr. Lichtman: All right. Commissioner Plummer: So, we are looking... When you say to protect the rights of minorities, Hispanics are still considered for this purpose, a minority? Dr. Lichtman: Hispanics are covered under the Voting Rights Act, that's correct. Although, they are not a minority within this City and wouldn't... Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. But, you can't count them. Dr. Lichtman: But, I don't want to. get into that actually, because I want to respond to your original question. We can get into the other issue if we have to. When you draw a plan, and we are told to draw five districts, OK. That's not our decision, that's what we are told to do and we try to draw a plan, you know, preserving the commonalities of the coast and basically conforming to the neighborhoods, you will inevitably get three districts that are substantial majority Hispanics. That is a function of choosing five districts. It will come out three, at least three. You may be able to jiggle it to get a fourth. But, just doing it naturally, you will get three substantial majority Hispanic districts. That's a function of the number of districts you choose. The fact that Hispanics are 62, 63 percent of the population and a function of how the neighborhoods come down. That's not really a moot point, that will happen. You will get at least three majority Hispanic districts by choosing five. Mayor Carollo: We could at this point in time, if it's the will of the Commission...? Commissioner Hernandez: Mr. Mayor, I think it would be important that you bring up a memorandum that, just for the general public... Mayor Carollo: Feel free to. Commissioner Hernandez: We received a memorandum from the Chief of Staff of the office of the City Manager from... a memorandum directed to him from the director of Office of Budget and Management Analysis in which one extra Commissioner would cost the City of Miami approximately three hundred and ten thousand one hundred and seventy-six dollars ($310,176). Two Commissioners, two extra Commissioners would cost the City approximately six hundred and ten thousand dollars three hundred and fifty-two. When we discussed seven, that will be three extra Commissioners. I would assume that we could increase it by another three hundred thousand, so we are at the borderline of one million dollars ($1,000,000), correct? Commissioner Plummer: Well, no. No, you are not correct. Mr. Aaron Weeks (Chief of Staff): Commissioner... Hold on. 45 July 1, 1997 Commissioner Plummer: Let me tell you why you are not correct, OK. Because you are not figuring in here that we are most likely going to some kind of either executive or strong Mayor. And, he is not going to work for less. I would assume that a hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) a year. Plus, it's going to take more office space than what he is presently doing. So, these numbers are just if it is one Commissioner or two. We are definitely talking, I think we are definitely talking the Mayor being aside, whether if it's executive or strong and that's not added into these numbers. So, it's going to definitely be more than what we have here. j Mr. Weeks: Commissioners, the numbers that were put together that you have in front of you are steady state calculations. In other words, this is based on what it currently costs now in order to have a Commissioner office. There are several policy determinations of which this Commission could make which would either lower or increase the cost for Commissioners. Such as, you could make a determination to decrease the budgets for the Commissioners which would decrease these numbers. The determinations of having an executive Mayor in terms of salaries is not contemplated in these numbers and therefore that would also have an impact. Commissioner Plummer: Absolutely. Mr. Weeks: But, these are steady state calculations based upon what we know now in terms of cost. j Commissioner Plummer: As to Commissioners. Mayor Carollo: I guess that the best track record... Commissioner Plummer: It doesn't address the Mayor's position at all. Mayor Carollo: ... to go look at is to see... Commissioner Hernandez: What happened. Mayor Carollo: ... what happened when they went to larger, much larger districts was the County and even the School Board. Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah. Mayor Carollo: Particularly, the County. Did their budgets go up or did they go down, do we know? Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, because they get that two hundred thousand slush fund. Mr. Weeks: At the County, the budgets went up. Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. Commissioner Gort: You know, one thing that we need to consider in here in making our decisions, is like J.L. has been saying for the last month. We are having an election coming in September where people are going to be asked are we going to keep the City of Miami or are we going to do away with the City of Miami? So, this is something that we need to analyze. Are we going to have the City? And, that's... Commissioner Hernandez: Well, that's been one of my main object... When I objected to the six plan besides the demographics which was my main interest, is the bigger government 46 July 1, 1997 AliYJ philosophy, the bigger bureaucracy, the bigger budgets. We obviously passed a very unpopular Fire Assessment Fee which is still hovering over voters in the City of Miami. And, on top of that, when we start discussing a bigger form of Commission, so does the budget increase and that was something that I think we almost addressed when we discussed bigger districts. I mean, bigger, a bigger Commission. Especially when we have that special election coming up September 4th. Commissioner Gort: I just want to make everybody aware that election is two months away or less than that I think. Vice Mayor Regalado: I guess that... Commissioner Gort: It is less than that. Vice Mayor Regalado: I guess that all the members of this board are in tuned with the fact that we need first to have a City and then resolve the other problems that this City has. And, it does have a lot of problems and I just want to remind the members of this Commission and the public that a preliminary report out of some departments from the County that will he published soon, will tell the people of Dade County and, of course the people of Miami that if the City of Miami were to be abolished taxes will probably go down if the City takes several steps. Mayor Carollo: Did we expect anything less? Vice Mayor Regalado: No, of course not. But, Mr. Mayor... Mayor Carollo: They would save a lot of money on Maritime Park, wouldn't they? Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, it's just that we are fighting in two fronts at the same time and the problem that I see here and the problem that I saw before we had a break in the morning, is that every time that we keep discussing we are more divided because we bring more issues. We inject more controversy and to save the City of Miami... I think that the City of Miami with 100 years and with a bright future, should be saved not by a 52 or a 55 percent of a margin of... in favor of the City of Miami. But, by a 90 percent because that would give the City itself a mandate to go ahead and if we keep injecting this divisiveness, well, we are going to have to defend the City and at the same time defend other issues and at the same time members of this Commission will be asked to respond to the needs of this community or the other community and the complaints of this community and the other communities. And, I am sure that all the citizens of Miami, all the residents of Miami, would first want is to have the City. And, to have the City with a mandate that could go forward with all the things that we need to do. One of the things that we need to do is, of course, have equal representation. But, you know, I have said, I am sure that the people who are here in the audience who do listen to the radio because it seems that you do, would have heard me say that every time that I go on the air, that my priority is to have a City, to save a City, to work for the City with all the communities united and not have divisive issues come into us. Mayor Carollo: Representative Meek. Representative Kendrick Meek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission. We spoke a little earlier -- I am back now -- about leadership and taking responsibility. And, I must say, that Commissioner Gort, as I was... I made some phone calls during the break, during my break. I noticed that you all went on for an hour after I left of looking at other cities and how they are doing it. And, I must say that when we look at representation of a community and especially as we look at Miami, -the question of Miami's existence coming up before the voters in another two months, we have to make sure that everyone feels that they are represented and 47 July 1, 1997 that it's an inclusive process. I think this morning I spoke of representation and not larger bigger government. Bigger government is when you add more people to the... I don't want to call out a department head, my good friend is here and in fact a good lot of my friends that are here are heads of departments. But, when you put in a bureaucratic, unelected, what you may say "appointed position" then that could bring about problems. But, when you look at accountability, look at the County, for instance. When they went into districts you could call down to a Commissioner and get accountability, need it be a trash pile, need it be a street light or street sign or whatever the case might be. Right now, we are a committee as we look at the City of Miami government ran by a committee. And, I think that if you want to look at it as a cost thing, I don't think we should look at it as that.. I think we could address that like I believe Commissioner Plummer or Commissioner Gort mentioned of looking at the budgets that already exists within your own offices and trying to make sure that everyone is represented. I think the seven district plan... I haven't talked with anyone as it relates to that. But, as it relates to my opinion of it, I think it's a good step toward hopefully mitigating this situation. Allowing blighted areas as I mentioned, especially in the Black community to have representation beyond one person. I think it also presents some other opportunities for other ethnic groups to have representation, not only African -Americans but Haitian -Americans of having an opportunity to be represented. But, I think, if we look at it from a representation standpoint, to where that everyone in the City can say it's not how my City feels about me, it's how I feel about my City. And, then I can call on my City Commissioners, as in plural, to hopefully assist me in all of my needs. So, look at it from a representation standpoint, not a bigger government, larger government, if you ask anyone who votes for you or who vote for me, they want accountability. You say, well, why don't we break it down to a smaller area where Commissioner Regalado is in charge of area one, whatever that area may be. Then, they know that they can call Commissioner Regalado and they will get accountability. And, they can call whoever they have to call as it relates to other districts. But, I think that as it relates to the Black community, it's important that we have at least two districts. And, I think the Blue Ribbon Commission, I see a lot of the members here. When they looked at it, they said that they wanted true representation, two people to represent the Black community, one from the Anglo and four to give the super majority. I am sorry, three from the Hispanic community and you still can accomplish that through a seven district plan. Commissioner Plummer, you are 100 percent right? I think that if the population of the City is a majority Hispanic at this time, or you may say Cuban -Americans, I that yes, they should have what you may say a super majority, all right. And, they are going to have that, regardless. And, they can accomplish that through a seven district plan. So, I think that that is one way, Mr. Mayor, that we can start to approach that. I heard you say this morning that members of the Commission can introduce plans, additional plans too, before this body. And, I think that if you or one of the Commissioners wanted to take that on or instruct your higher consultant to look at that, I think that's one way of hopefully looking coming to some sort of resolution. So, I just wanted to add that as my two cents that I will continue to add so I can come up with ten cents, eventually. But, I want to... Let's work together with this and I think that's one way of mitigating the whole situation. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Peggy, go ahead. i Mr. Peggy Demon: Peggy Demon. Can you hear me? No. Peggy Demon. Mayor Carollo: Yes. Mr. Demon: 25 West Flagler Street. Also, a member of the Blue Ribbon Committee. I am listening very intently this morning at everybody and also at the Commission. And, it seems to me that there is no way in any scenario we have listened at that the Hispanic community could loose. There is no way. If you go from four to five to six to seven. Whatever, you come up with, you are going to be OK. The question is, I think for you is, is whether or not you are going to work with the entire community. Whether everybody is going to have an opportunity. Let's 48 July 1, 1997 ,a look at five. If we go with five and a Mayor, that's six people. If you get two and the Mayor, that's 49 percent. If you get three and the Mayor, that's 66 percent. If you get four seats and the Mayor, that's 87. There is no reason to overstep one way or the other. I want to say that a lot of people are watching what we do. This is a historic time in the City of Miami. We look at the Black community as members of the committee. We looked at it. We say never in the history of Miami has the Black community had an opportunity. People who have been disenfranchised since the time we have been here. Never, have we had an opportunity to get two. And, then we looked at the White community. A community that is very mobile, that there has been some rapid changes over a period of time. We felt they should have some access. When we looked at the six plan it was the only one when we looked at the voter registration that gave them a halfway decent chance. Fifty-one percent of the registered voters to be able to get somebody in there. I think if you have a problem with the six, then we go to the seven. I started this process by saying the larger the number of seats we have the better it would be for the neighborhood. If you look at what is happening politically, not only in Dade County but around the country, people want representative government. They want to be able to reach out and touch their Commissioner. And, if you go to a larger scenario more of your neighborhoods are going to have this person that they can embrace, that they can see in the grocery store, that they can tell about their problems, that they can go on, and on and on. You become the heroes. You become the beginning of a march in America for a sort of a mobilization, a coming together of communities. And, I think you have an opportunity now to lead. The question is, which way shall we go? Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Peggy. Representative Morse. Representative Luis Morse: Mayor, Commissioners. For the record, Luis Morse, State Representative for District 113 of the Florida House. First, I want to congratulate you for having taken the proactive step of not waiting for the court case work along but to really working with the community and trying to come up with single member district. I am a product of single member district, so is Representative Meek, so is Representative Bush. Without single member i districts, I can assure you that we would not be state representatives for the State of Florida. So, I am one of those that's fully, fully in support of single member district. What the difficulty that you are going to be faced with is that not only do you need to take a... make a decision but also, that position that you are going to be taking here will be put in front of the voters of the City of jMiami. And, it's going to be the voters of the City of Miami, the ones that are going to be taking f the last decision. It's going to be in the voters hands and whatever decision you take has got to take into consideration, can it be sold, and can you convince the voters of the City of Miami that that is the correct plan? And, that is the key to coming up with something for the future of our City. And, I say for the future of our City because I want very, very much for the City of Miami to be an entity next year and the following year and forever. Because, I truly believe in our City and love it and wish it to have a great future. But, in order to do that you all will have to come up with a decision that will satisfy the voters. And, unfortunately, cost will come into effect, representation comes into effect. People will... some people would think that they are not... that { they are being disenfranchised. Some people would think that it's going to be costing too much and it's a balancing act. I hope that when you make your final decision that we can all come together and all be together in different radio stations and different forums advocating for a positive vote to have a single member district plan that will truly carry us on to the next century. Again, my best wishes. This is not an easy job, the one that you have. Because, really you have to balance, you are trying to balance some things that are in some cases are' very much lost because the final judge is going to be the voters of the City of Miami. And, you cannot put something in front of them in which the majority of them are going to reject. We have got to come up with a plan that will be acceptable to the majority and that we can sell to the majority of the voters of this great City in September when we have that vote. So, I wish you luck and really, my best wishes to you in coming up with a plan. Although, I think that we are coming up, that you are going to end up with, I think, from a five or a seven member Commission. Good luck. [APPLAUSE] 49 July 1, 1997 1t Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Do you need to speak again, Representative Bush? Ms. Frankie S. Rolle: He's going to let me speak. Representative Bush: Yes, I do. Ms. Rolle: He is going to give it to me. Mayor Carollo: OK. Frankie, can I ask you a favor? Ms. Rolle: What? Mayor Carollo: Can he go ahead of you... Ms. Rolle: I wanted to go ahead of him. Mayor Carollo: .. because after that we are going to go with the two minutes? I am giving our elected officials the courtesy of being able to speak a little longer and then I am sure there is a lot of other people are going to want to speak then, and we are going to go into two minutes that we described that we would do earlier. Thank you. Representative Bush: Mr. Mayor, that shows the brilliancy of your leadership not to restrict... Commissioner Plummer: Ho, ho, ho. What are you here, after? Representative Bush: ... restrict the preacher. To restrict the minister and politician to two minutes, you know. Mayor Carollo: Well, what do you think Frankie, is he right or not? Commissioner Plummer: He got your vote but he lost every woman's vote in this City. Representative Bush: But, let me just first say that I want to commend the Mayor for forming the Blue Ribbon Commission and all the Commissioners for working very hard on this issue, and not to fight the issue. As you know, in the County they fought it up to the very end and the courts had to come in and force them to do what was right. I listened this morning.... I had an opportunity, Mr. Mayor, to, as a member of the Commission to at least participate, I think about three of the meetings. And,. I listened to the majority of the participants or citizens in the City of Miami and leaders, the leadership of those various areas who expressed their desire and interest in the map, I think, 6-2C, which encompasses all of the necessary neighborhoods, the socioeconomic demographs and giving full representation across the entire City. Also, this morning I listened to a lot of the citizens who are not here because of whatever reasons, they had to leave, about leadership. I heard my great colleague, Representative Meek speak very clearly about leadership. And, it's all now about leadership. I heard so many things about what it's going to cost the City, how we want to look at the cost factor and the Mayor not being included in the figure you just gave, Mr. Clerk, Manager, and all the other things. But, let me just say that we have to make a decision on what we are going to do. The City of Miami, the district that I represent and the majority of this district is in my legislative district. And, Representative Meek brought it out very clear, there is a lot of suffering, there is a lot of crime. I live in my district and I witness this every day. I witness people who are having some tremendous problems and some who feel that they are disenfranchised. And, when we look at the history of this county, in terms of having representation... We had an African -American. I know we are not... this is not the predominant factor in terms of configurating these maps. But, we had an So July 1, 1997 2 African -American on this seat and we lost that, OK. The history books are replete with situations that show there are certain individuals and certain classes of people that are disenfranchised from the political process or from the process in general or getting a piece of the pie. So, what I am trying to say to this Commissioner this morning, this afternoon rather, that the people have spoken. They pretty much have given you based on their testimonies, based on what they see, based on, and I heard the expert bring out in his presentation that some of the guidelines that he is working under or they are working under, one person, one vote, am I right? { One person, one vote. I heard them talk about the 1965 Voters Right Act -- and I am going to wind this up in about a minute -- 1965 Voting Rights Act and how in that act certain classes are protected under the 1965 Voting Rights Act. I heard them talk about the Supreme Court decision that came out about four years ago where you could not put districts together based on race alone. And, I heard them talk about the social economic communities and all that... all those other factors involved. Now we have it. We have a different array of maps here, we have some, the ... Some communities feel that they want their communities to stay together, some feel that it's an invasion on certain communities. So now, I think that we have found the I solution, Mr. Mayor. I think that if we can come back and the experts have clearly stated that they can come back by, I think you said Thursday , right? By Thursday, with the seven member plan, and I think that we can pretty much include all of the communities and take under consideration all of the guidelines and the prerequisites that we are working with within the Constitution and all, and we can leave here as a unified community. I think this morning, some of the citizens left here very, very angry for the fact that they felt members of this Commission, who represents them who... These are taxpayers who got on the radio and said certain things about African -Americans vice versa. We don't need that polarization in this community, we have enough problems here in Miami and particularly in the City of Miami and Dade County. Mr. Mayor, I think that if you guys, should I say, you Commissioners will consider the seven plan, let us come back on Thursday, let's put this together. And, I think that we can leave here all together as one, not Blacks against Hispanics, Hispanics against Whites. And, I believe that this is the type of leadership that's needed. You have a great opportunity, Mr. Mayor, to lead the charge. The ball is in your hand. We just need you now to call the right plan. And, I think with your leadership... And, the last point, and then I will take my seat. The last point we are talking about, we speculate that, well, the voters are not going to pass plan 6-2C, or 5-2, whatever. Well, we don't know that, we can only speculate. Let's put it before the voters and give the voters an opportunity to make that choice. And, I think that you will find that if you as the leaders, as Kendrick talked about the leadership, you as leaders if you expose this kind of leadership, in mounts, I think that the voters will get behind you and get behind this plan, one plan as a unified front. Let's just remember, Mr. Mayor, I have been in this City for a little time now and I have been in the midst of a whole lot of disturbance and I think it's time for, we as representatives, I see my colleague is here today, you as Commissioners, to stand up and show our children that we have... We can do it. We can act better than what this City has been acting, and how we have been acting and I think the leadership from you and I want to commend all of you and I believe that you are going to do the right thing. And, we can't stand alone, Hispanics can't stand alone, Blacks can't stand alone. We can do it together. And, I want just for the record, that it's time now for the City of Miami to put aside this race issue and let's deal with people. People issue is what it's all about. And, I am looking for your leadership and I want to work with you. This is my district that you are dealing with now, this whole City of Miami. And, I will be here to work with you, Mr. Mayor and Commissioners, and let's go ahead and show the people that we are unified as Blacks and Hispanics. Thank you, very much. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Thank you, very much. Frankie. Thank you. Ms. Rolle: Now, will I get two minutes? I am the last speaker. Mayor Carollo: ell, I... Somehow, I don't think you will be the last speaker. 51 July 1, 1997 R 1i Ms. Rolle: OK, my name is Frankie Shannon Rolle and I reside at 3430 William Avenue. I am also a member of the Blue Ribbon Committee. We were given a task to come up with plans to present to the Commissioners, it's my understanding that within the City of Miami we ask for the service of the Police, we ask for the service of the Fire Department, we ask for the service of the Sanitation Department, we deal with economic development. Now, that doesn't happen in one community. All of us ask for the same thing. If it's trash on my street, I want it moved. If I need the Fire Rescue, I want the Fire Rescue or the Fire Department. If I need the Police, I want the Police. And, if I want some development to go on in my community and you can assist, I want the development to go on in my community. And, I think every community want the same thing. You have a job to do, you gave us a job to do. You talk about money, I don't know how much you paid the experts but you paid them to do a job. And, then when they do that job, you ask them questions and they attempt to 'answer your questions and then you give them some more assignments. To me, it seems as if you knew which way you wanted to go before you appointed the committee. And, if you knew which way you wanted to go before you appointed the committee then you should have told us, this is what we are looking for and this is what we are looking. A teacher gives you an assignment, they just don't go to the blackboard and you say, you write on anything you want to write on. So, I am a person who don't like things that come from the floor. If you want to run from an office, say you want to run for it in the beginning. Don't wait until people get all stirred up and then you come in and throw something in the middle of the whole situation and ask them to deal with it. We came up with the plan of the 6-213 and we modified it to the 62-C and when we went out in the community, I was in Miami High, basically a Hispanic community. I don't remember anybody of a Hispanic origin making a presentation to us at that time. I went to the hearing at Miami Jackson, the same thing occurred. I came to the public hearing here, the same thing occurred. So, then... And, I know the Hispanic people fill this Chamber when they are totally interested in something. So, the only representation I have heard from the Hispanic community has been with two Hispanic persons on the Blue Ribbon Committee. And, each time they said, well, they are not going to vote for this. Well, if you are on the committee and the majority rule, and the majority said this, that or the other, then to me, you are supposed to go 'out and try to promote what that committee is talking about. Otherwise, if you are not with the committee, then you ought to get off the committee. That's just how I feel about it. And, I favor the plan that we presented, that the expert said that we would have the least problem with and I still can't understand what the problem is, other than in the 6-2C, Black people will get two seats and we never had two, never even dreamed of two. But, if we can get two, certainly we want two. And, to think about excluding the White people out of here, I don't understand that. I looked at the transition of Hong Kong back to China and it seems as if they aren't going to have any problems if they go by what they say. And, I take people at their word. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Frankie. Mr. Gibbs. Mr. Tucker Gibbs: My name is Tucker Gibbs, I live at 2531 Swanson Avenue in Coconut Grove. And, I spoke to the committee last week and I just have a couple of points because I don't want to be repetitive. And, I want to focus on the issue of neighborhoods. That's what this is all about. And, I don't see this as a Black and White or a Latin issue, it is a neighborhood issue. It's about neighborhood integrity, it's about neighborhood for a lack of a better word, neighborhood power. And, for that reason when you divide up the City into four, five, six, seven, eight, how many districts, frankly the more districts that you have the better it is going to be for the people in the neighborhoods. As long you preserve those neighborhoods. And, that's a very important issue. I know it's on that one map that I see Flagami sort of divided up and some maps of the roads; and in that one the roads are divided up. And, these are issues for those neighborhoods that it's important. I think that, as I said, the larger the number of districts the better it's going to be for the people of Miami because it gives us as a community the opportunity to build coalitions, and I think that's what's missing in an at large system or a 52 July 1, 1997 ,464 " l'° system of few districts. You don't have that opportunity to have coalition building within districts and coalition building between districts and for that reason, I would definitely support a seven district plan. I think it's a great idea, with an executive Mayor. The other issue I wanted to bring up to you all was one of commitment. And, I think it's the most important issue. I don't care what district you pick, what plan you pick as long as you are committed to it as a Commission. And, I said this to the committee as well, the Blue Ribbon Committee. The last thing that... The thing that's going to ruin this isn't going to be fact that it's going to be the fact that it's seven districts or five districts or four districts or six districts. It's going to be, if people who are leaders in this community, Black, Anglo and Hispanic do not get behind whatever district plan that you all have. And, that means on the radio. It's one thing to sit here at the City Commission or at the Blue Ribbon Commission and say, yeah, I am in favor of districts and then go on the radio and say, well, I am not going to be in favor of this or I am not going to be in favor of that. When you have your opportunity now to vote on this, once you all pick your district plan I hope, and I know the people of Miami hope that you all are going to be just as loud and vociferous in supporting that plan to the constituency that is yours in the City of Miami. And, I think that, if you don't, it's going to kill it. And, I recommend the seven. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Yes. Mr. Fred Joseph: Frank Joseph, president of the Grand Condo Association, member of the Blue Ribbon panel which you selected. Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners. We have done a lot of time and effort. We put in a lot of anguishing hours of who is going to vote for which part. But, I think there is two things that you might be overlooking which I made the statement at the close of one of the evenings, I think it was about 10 o'clock at night. We are confusing the people if we go out with a lot of plans now. Representative Bush says now, give them another plan. I imagine if we do this for two more days we will have seven to ten plans. You have got to save this City in the next -- what is it, twelve weeks? If we don't do that, we don't care what plan you come up with. I think you have got to get some coalition to get this City back together. Unfortunately, the plans that we have looked at probably will serve one entity in here against another. Everybody likes to talk about the Anglo, but I don't see an Anglo. The lady just before me, she was like myself. She was appalled by the fact that you were almost excluding the White Anglo. And, that lady was Black African -American, I am assuming. So, I think you have got to be looking at something. And, that is, these plans are wonderful but you better be saving the City. Everybody I have talked to about the plans has said, they don't matter. If you don't get this City back, you won't need a plan. Thank you. Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Fred. Mr. Clarence Williams: In regards to the saving of this City, right now I think, I don't know what role you would expect African -Americans to play in saving a City that they are no part of. I can't see it. When I look at this Commission, and I have been away from this City and this is my adopted home and I love it dearly. I am saddened by. it, Mayor. And, the... some of the divisive tones that have occurred here, we need to rid ourselves of that type of spirit if we are going to progress and make this place a viable place for all of God's creatures to live, Thank you. Reverend Rudolph Daniels: Mr. Mayor and to the Commission and to everyone here. I am a pastor in this City and has spent my life since 1941, you heard that earlier today. I love the City of Miami and I am still making a contribution. We are working with the kids at the Church and one of the greatest programs that I have had, and all of the retired teachers there at the church, Ms. Wallace and those there working with the kids and they are going on field trips and it's just a wonderful thing that's happening. I have just retired from the school system and I decided that I am not finished yet. I see like old retired school teachers and others that have retired from 53 July 1, 1997 j9 qQ fi. other areas of work and there is dignity in all levels of work. Whether you are sweeping the street or whatever. And, we are making our contribution to this City of Miami. Let's save this beautiful City of ours. Wherever I travel all over the country, I say if you really want to go where the retirees should go, is coming to where the palm trees are swinging in the breeze. And, I say that proudly. And so, let's save the City of Miami but let's include all of the people. The hate business, I never have been involved in hate business, I have been too busy working. I have trained to work. And, if we pass this on to our children and love the people in the City of Miami, but all of the people. I have taught Hispanic kids, I have thought the kids of Hispanic origin. And, I don't get hang-ups. When they come into my room, my classroom, everybody was on an equal basis and everybody was treated fairly. Everybody was treated fairly. And, that's the way we should do. Let's not let the kids down. Hispanic kids, Black kids, White kids, whoever is in this town. It's a multicultured, complexed situation. A lot of wonderful people here basically from everywhere. So, we need to consider when you do this. Consider what is to the best interest of all the people that live here. It seems like to me, that's very simple. I believe if you go to six, seven, which includes all of the people and let equal representation, let it be that. That's reality to me. The world of work is reality and my community is reality, the dirt on the street and the debris... You look around, I see it cleaned in other communities, I would like it cleaned in my community too. That's equal taxation with equal representation, that simple. We encourage you to do that what is right. We want to encourage you... We pray. I pray all the time, I am a praying person. I pray for my City, I pray for the Commissioners, I pray for everyone here. And, we are the ones that's going to make this a safe place for our children to reside. Let's do that. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Mr. Manolo Reyes: My name is Manolo Reyes. I live at 5301 Southwest 7th Street. As was previously stated here, any plan, five, six, seven district plan has to go to the voters. And, by looking at some of the plans, and I have been... a concern that I have before, is that any plan that you present the voters, and I know this is not an easy task because there is not a perfect plan. But, the integrity of the neighborhoods have to be respected. Because, if they are not respected, voters are going to feel divided and they are going to go against any of those plans. So, I really suggest that before you vote on a plan, you respect the integrity of the neighborhoods so that people will be happy and will be happy to support a plan that they feel will represent them and their neighbors. Thank you, very much. [APPLAUSE] Mr. Herschel Haynes: Mr. Mayor and Commissioners. I have been here a number of times and I have listened very attentive to everything that most people have had to say, especially the leaders of the community. And, I think objectively the reason all of us are here and we could easily be doing something else, is to hopefully see that you would come up with the best plan that would give us representation for all the people which is what clearly the Constitution supports. And, I think that, from what I have heard that it's either plan 6-C or the plan seven to give all the citizens of the City of Miami a fair chance of fairly being represented. And, I am just hoping that when all of you get together that you will come up with a plan that's going to be best representing all the citizens of the City of Miami. And, I say that's either six or seven. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Mr. A. Leon Worthy: Mr. Mayor, I spoke earlier in favor of 6-C. With the information that has been presented I must amend that and say that I am also in favor of us considering plan seven. One of the things that I want to say while I am here with all these leaders here, is something I have advocated for many, many years, and that is that the leadership has a responsibility to educate the public in situations like this. John Q. Public does not understand redistricting. I didn't understand it until I got into seeing what this Commission was all about. The leaders of the community, be they elected officials or be they church leaders, we have a responsibility to the community to educate them in these kinds of situations so that they can make intelligent 54 July 1, 1997 decisions when these kinds of things come up. No matter what plan is agreed upon here today, in order for the public to make an intelligent decision, the leadership I feel has a responsibility to educate them. To explain to them exactly- what is going on and what is going to be... how they are going to be better served by the City government. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Mr. Nathaniel Wilcox: I just... My name is.Nathaniel Wilcox, I live at 3111 Northwest 135th Street. I would just like to say to the Commission today, I have heard a lot of comments made about majority and as a student of history, my mind went back to our early days, African - Americans earlier days of being here. And, history has taught us many lessons, and among those lessons in dealing with the majority... The majority said that it was OK for people to own us. And, the majority said that we, as African -Americans we were not human, slavery was OK. And, that it was OK to purchase, to breathe and to sell us. That's what the majority said. The majority also said that we could not own land. The majority also said that we could not attend certain schools and churches, we could not own businesses. This is what the majority said. Also the majority in many instances said that we could not drink from certain water fountains and we could not play in certain parks because this is how the majority felt. And, also the majority said that we had to ride in the back of the bus, we could ride in certain places on the train. Now, this is what the majority said. And, we were relegated to the position of second class citizens. Now, this is how the majority felt. And, here today as we come before you again, we have made many, many... a great deal of progress through God's help. And, history again, should teach this Commission a very important lesson. In Metro -Dade County, the majority felt that at large districts, at large voting system was OK, that had to change. And, also the School Board. And, here today the City of Miami is at the crossroads where a decision has to be made. And, we are asking you to consider history. And, do not relegate us to second class citizens. And, a person is not so much what they say they are, we are not listeningso much to what you are saying but we are looking very diligently at your actions. So, we are saying that that Commission, not relegating us to second class citizens, should endorse the 6-2 plan or the seven plan. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Anybody else from the public that will like to address the Commission? Ms. Winnie Tang: Hi, good afternoon, Mayor and Commissioners. And, this is my first time to be in this hall and then to talk about this issue too. And, all this time I heard about, we talk about and the presentation and all these... Mayor Carollo: OK, first of all... Ms. Tang: Oh. Mayor Carollo:... welcome to this Commission meeting. Ms. Tang: Thank, you. Mayor Carollo: Second of all... Ms. Tang: My name? Mayor Carollo: ... we need your name and address for the record. Thank you. Ms. Tang: OK, my name is Winnie Tang, and I live in 8401 Southwest 107th Avenue in the West, the Kendall area. And, from what I heard and I think we need to... for the coalition and then we would be six or seven, those will be the ones. The more Commissioners around there I think it would help the committee more. And, as an Asian group, that we are a silent minority 55 - July 1, 1997 2 that we don't even count anywhere in the road map. So, in order for us also, having some representation. That mean really to have some Commissioner also representing us and then speak about the Asian issue and it... We are kind of growing, we are working very hard and doesn't have much problems. So, a lot of people seeing us, less problems so they don't know how to deal with us or work with us. And, that's why that we are starting learning about the process and then to really also, would like to work with the community and then to see the support. And, then also, basing on what I heard that we will be supporting like the six or seven district. That's getting more representation, then we can get more our voices out to be worked together as a community, as a unity to bring strength to the City. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Ms. Dessie Bornes: Good evening, my name is Dessie Bornes. My address is 12210 Northwest 22nd Court. I am here today, because I am concerned about the steps that are being taken in this situation. From what I could see, now if you come up with the seven plan, then you are going to have to pay the experts more money. And, if you are concerned about the budget, I think it's time that you listen to the public. And, most of all that you go along with your Blue Ribbon I Committee and make some decision so the people won't have to keep running back, forward trying to appease you or themselves. Now, with that in mind, as a member of Mt. Taber Baptist Church in Liberty City, I worked .for HRS (Health and Rehabilitation Services), Jackson Memorial Hospital and the School Board for 38 years. And, I am only 61 years old. I am not working anymore. I have paid my taxes and I have paid my dues. I was not born in Miami, I was born in Georgia, in the back fields of Georgia. But, I do know right from wrong. And, I think it's time that you, Brother Mayor, Brother Commissioners, that you calm down and that you realize that we are humans and that we deserve fair play in this situation. Regardless of what happens, you are already in the majority. So, why continue waste money paying that ` expert over there, when either way you go, you are still in the majority? So, be compassionate, be fair, love humanity and realize that we are only asking for a fair share in this situation and that will only give us two Commissioners and you are going to have four or five, either way you take it. So, let's do it fair. Thank you, very much, and let's go with plan 6-2, and let that man go back where he came from and stop paying him all this money, OK? Thank you. [APPLAUSE] I Commissioner Plummer: We are going to give him a superiority complex. Mayor Carollo: I understood we had a cap on what we were going to pay the gentleman. Yes. Mr. Richard Chalman: Good afternoon. My name is Richard Chalman. My address is 1353 Northwest 29th Terrace. I should say that I must agree with Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado when he said that he was talking about the lack of support of African -American to Hispanic or vice versa, not mentioning the Anglo-American supporting Black -American. But, we should look at the difference, historic differences that every community, and I... Instead of community, I should say, just looking for freedom and opportunity, including myself, the one who came from other countries. And, in consideration to the situation of our brother, our Afro-American brother who'suffered discrimination, who were enslaved and helped to build this country without being compensated yet. This has put a hardship on the African -American people and we can see it in different ways. We can see it in lack of education. I don't mean the lack of opportunity. The opportunity is in there, but the time that take to cure the trauma of being enslaved for so long and so hard is in there. And, the forces supporting all of this are enforced. I want to move on and I just want to mention that we need to unify forces, work together. It's wrong for us to be talking about a community by race and this should be as the Constitution said, the number of people. Mayor Carollo: Sir, thank you, but your time is up, sometime. I appreciate your comments. Mr. Chalman: Thank you. 56 July 1, 1997 0 Mayor Carollo: Anyone else who would like to address this Commission that hasn't done so yet? Anyone else? OK, then the public hearing section of this meeting then will be closed. And we will then go back to the Commission for deliberations. Commissioner Plummer: Well, do you want to start over here? Mayor Carollo: We could start over there. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I guess my greatest concern that every time we meet we are increased by two more. And, I am scared to meet again because we will be up to nine and the longer this goes on the more problems we are going to have. Mr. Mayor, I have no problems looking at the seven. I am concerned with dollars, of course. But, I have no problem of looking at seven but I have to tell you today, that I am in favor of the five. I think the five gives good representation and I have no problem with the five. I hope that, as we have heard previous colleagues- and others that have spoken, I think it's most important that we have to worry that we are going to survive to have any plan. Because, those that are out there trying to do see the demise of this City are very organized and are working very hard. So, as far as this vote is concerned, I have no problem looking at the seven, but at this point unless something develops to show me something to the contrary, I am in favor of the five member plan. I think as far as the Mayor is concerned, I think you have expressed and I think most of us have, the tendency would be towards an executive Mayor. The comment was that it would be the same rules, the same governing thing as would be with Dade County, and I would want the opportunity to read that over between now, and I think we are meeting again on Thursday to see whether I concur with the same facts as what prevails with Dade County executive Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Gort. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, I would like to address several points that have been brought out by speakers. Number one, I think this Commissioner here, has taken a task that we inherited, that we had to work with it, and it has not been easy for this Commission to do so. At the same time, I think this Commission here, I think everyone of us has been very responsive to the whole community, even before we had representation here. And, I think that's important. And, I think what made the difference in the representations and whatever plan we adopt, I think this Committee and this Commission has got to make a commitment to maintain the NET (Neighborhood Enhancement Team) system the way it is. Because, I think that's one of the ways that we have improved the service in each of our communities. People being responsive, being directed to the NETs and all of us assisting the NETS. Also, it's not who you are electing to represent you, to make sure whoever sits here is going to look at the district but also is going to look at the City as a whole because we have to. We cannot become very parochial, which is something that happens with districts. And, this is something that we have to be very careful with. We got to make sure that the person we elect is the person that can get along with all the other districts and make sure that when we make a decision, it's a decision that's going to benefit the whole City, not just any one district. Because whatever happens in any part of the City is going to hurt everybody or it's going to benefit everybody. And, I think it's important to stress that. Like J.L., I don't mind looking at the seven plan, looking at it, let's see what it looks like, what will be the cost. And, I think the staff can work on that and let's look at it. I don't have any problem with that. I think we can do the wording today, we can make a decision or we can do the wording and leave in blank the amended precincts. And, we have to come back on Thursday, anyway. Mayor Carollo: Well, that's one thing that I would certainly recommend that we would go with the wording today or the bulk of it and the City Attorney would advise us of that in just a few minutes because time is of the essence. We have three additional days left and that's if all the 57 July 1, 1997 mt l members of the Commission can meet on any of those days. Tomorrow, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday is the 4th of July. So, we are not meeting on Friday. Then, we have Saturday, because the last day is Sunday and we are not going to meet on the Sabbath. So, we have three possible days left and this is why I said last week that any plans that the members of the Commission had, any additional ideas to bring them forward because we won't going to wait until the end for additional proposals to come up and then miss the deadline that we had of this Saturday, that's the final day,' to get something on the ballot for voter approval on the fourth. The worst think that this Commission could do is, not have any kind of plan whatsoever on the ballot on the fourth for voter approval. We have said that we were going to do that, that we were going to have a plan to submit to the voters on the fourth. And, that's why we have been running the early meetings that we have had since it was one of the few times that all members of the Commission could have come together. That's why we met on a Saturday also, at seven in the morning. And, that's why we will have to find time to meet on Thursday and on Saturday if need be to finalize this. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, there is a point I would like to clarify also. And, this is a point that Frankie Rolle brought up when I accepted the chairmanship of this Blue Ribbon Committee, which I didn't know what I was doing. And, I think I made up for it. I can assure you, there is no specific plan that was drawn by any one of us. At the same time, we sent notice to each one of the Commissioners all of the meetings that were going to take place, of all the public hearings and at no time did I, and I don't think any of you received any pressure from any one of the Commissioners in any specific plan. And, what we have, the experts, and they have been very helpful to us and have been able to come along, and we might not like them all. But, like they say, there is not a perfect plan. There is no way that there will ever be a perfect plan. At least they had drawn some lines and they had given some criterias and guidelines to go from. But, I think it is very important to understand, there was no commitment, no plan before we started this. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner. Commissioner Hernandez: Mr. Mayor and ladies and gentlemen. Before... Commissioner Plummer: Hey. Commissioner Hernandez: ... we lose a vote on the Commission... Commissioner Plummer: We are down to four. Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah. Before we lose perspective on what we are trying to accomplish here and there has been a lot of comments made. And, we are trying to accomplish equal representation. Just representation based on a one man, one vote theory. There has been comments as to polarization, hate, division. I think, number one, and I think we must premise these meetings on the fact that if there was hate, which there isn't on this Commission, if there is polarization, which there isn't on this Commission. And, finally, if there is any type of division on this Commission, which there is not, we would not be here today. We would have taken the same, exact steps that Dade County government chose to take which was to fight this all the way through the federal court system. We have decided to take the leadership role to fight for single member districts, to make sure that every sector of this community has equal representation and just representation. That's why we are here today, that's why we were here Saturday morning and that's why there was a Blue Ribbon Committee. When you look at the Blue Ribbon Committee it's very important to look at the breakdown of that Blue Ribbon Committee. No one here has stated that that Blue Ribbon Committee is composed of 39 percent Hispanic participation. When in fact, the Hispanic population is 62 percent. So, in fact, there is more than just representation on the Blue Ribbon Committee. Every single plan that has been brought 58 July 1, 1997 Y.� before this Commission has an African -American seat. That is why we are here, to make sure that the African -American community has just representation. I have one vote, I have one opinion. I have my plan that I have presented, similar to the plans that our expert has presented to us. The bottom line is, strictly numbers, how you divide the piece of pie. My opinion is, five districts is the way to go. You have seen my plan, it is a just plan, it is a fair plan. It is a saleable plan to the voters of the City of Miami and finally, it is a defendable plan before federal judge. Bottom line is, you have seen my position. Everyone is represented under a five district plan, equally and just. And, I favor a five district plan. And, finally I can tell you that I will sit down and entertain any other plan that you may come up with. But my feelings and how. I see breaking down these districts, the most just and fair way is to go to a five district plan as presented here in my plan. Thank you. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Regalado: Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, members of the public, TV viewers. I hope that this is a trend. I hope that the will of the members of this Commission will be followed by other areas, by other cities where minorities are also disenfranchised. For instance, the City of Opa Locka with 30 percent of Hispanics does not have a Hispanic in the board of Commissioner or Mayor. The City of Miami Beach does not have a Hispanic on the Commission or the Mayor's seat. And, yet, Hispanics are more than 45 percent. So, I just hope that with the same passion that community leaders are defending the need to have representation, we all follow the trend and look for equality everywhere in South Florida. This Commission has shown that it has a will to have districts. But, still, there are so many questions that we need answers for. For instance, if we are going to mirror this Commission to Dade County, are we in the Commission, the Commissioners going to have some executive powers as some of the Commissioners in Dade County have so they can resolve different problems that their areas have? What are the powers that the Mayor will have? The terms of the budget? And, what services we need to take care from the Commission point of view so we can save budget in the administration or in the staff of the City of Miami? Because, the only thing that we cannot do is go to the people of Miami on September the 4th, and say to the people, look, we are very sorry that we had to impose the fire fee which for you poor people and retired people is going to mean twenty to twenty-five dollars ($25) more a month on the apartment that you rent in Liberty City, Overtown, Little Havana, Flagami. We are really sorry, we will say to the merchants in Southwest 8th Street, on 36th -Street, in Overtown, that we need to impose on you some additional licenses because you know, the past administration was not very good at the numbers. But, you know, we are sorry but we need because you got to proud of Miami, you got to be proud of the City that you contribute to build, that you vote for the City of Miami. And, by the way, while you are at it, just expand the City government to seven, nine, or why not 13? We have 13 offices in the different NETs (Neighborhood Enhancement Teams) areas of the City of Miami. And, we cannot tell the people of Miami just approve what we are thinking that is the best to solve any problems or to not have any questions in the courts. I think that all the citizens of Miami need to know that we are going to save the City to have a better City, to have a more lean government. That if we were to expand this Commission by one person, well then we are going to have to make cuts in the City government. Then, we are going to have to go out and see our ourself within ourself what we can save to tell the people of Miami that we are not, just because one community says that it needs how much representation they will say that we are going to expand the government. So, Mr. Mayor if... I only need some answers for these questions. My main question is, what can we offer the people of Miami other than we are being fair with the Afro-American community? We have to offer more. We have to offer a government that works, a government that is willing to cut the budget that if we are going to add two more Commissioners we cannot come up with those figures that it cost us six hundred thousand dollars. Where are going to get that, another fire fee? So, Mr. Mayor, I am ready to take a decision whenever you and this Commission feel... But, I think that we need to hear some more answers in terms of what can we tell the people of Miami because once that we approve a 59 July 1, 1997 0 plan, indeed, we have to go out and defend that plan before the voters of Miami. And, to the good people of PULSE, I hope that you work together with the Hispanic community in Opa Locka, the Hispanic community in Miami Beach, so we can have more districts and legal problems in the court. Mayor Carollo: I think Dawn is volunteering. Unidentified Speaker: Let me finish one at a time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. SCHEDULE SPECIAL COMMISSION MEETING FOR JULY 3, 1997 AT 7:A.M. -- FURTHER INSTRUCTING DEMOGRAPHIC CONSULTANTS TO PREPARE 7-MEMBER DISTRICT PROPOSAL. Mayor Carollo: She says, let her finish one at a time. All of the members of the Commission have spoken and I am hearing more or less a consensus for one number of districts. I think that this Commission has to go right to the essence of what decision we want to make. If there is truly no consensus here for a seven or for a six, then I think we need to bring this to a head and say exactly what we are in favor of, take a vote on it. If there is a possibility that's realistical that this Commission wants to go to seven district, then that's one thing that we could try to get them to come back with that on Thursday, if they can. But, again, time is of the essence. We now have an additional constraint, which is time. And, the longer that we wait, if we are not at the end, I am really going to consider an additional plan, the more of a chance that we are running into that we are not going to get this on time for the September 4th ballot. We have, the latest that we can get everything setup, approved, ready to go is on Saturday. So, if a majority of the Commissioners want to see the seven, I will entertain a motion for us to meet again on Thursday. Commissioner Plummer: I so move. Commissioner Hernandez: Second. Commissioner Plummer: I don't think we have anything to lose by looking at it. We are going to be back on Thursday morning at 6:30 to seven in the morning. Commissioner Gort: J.L., come on. Mayor Carollo: Well... Vice Mayor Regalado: Five. Five. Commissioner Plummer: Five? Mayor Carollo: What is the time that we could all meet on Thursday that is reasonable? Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I... Vice Mayor Regalado: How about six o'clock, Mr. Mayor? Commissioner Hernandez: In the morning? .1 July 1, 1997 Vice Mayor Regalado: I mean, 6:00 p.m. Commissioner Hernandez: Oh. Mayor Carollo: I am glad that you clarified that. Commissioner Plummer: Boy, have we got a lot of lazy devils. Mayor Carollo: But, frankly, the 6:00 p.m. concerns me more now than the 6:00 a.m. because the 6:00 p.m. is pretty late in the day and we might need more time, especially when the next day is the fourth of July. So, we need to meet at a reasonable time that hopefully is not 7:00 a.m. Commissioner Plummer: Why is...? Mayor Carollo: ... but it's some time later on in the morning that would be reasonable. Commissioner Plummer: Why is seven unreasonable? Why is seven unreasonable? Mayor Carollo: Well. Commissioner Plummer: I don't understand. All of us have got... Mayor Carollo: The undertaker is asking why 7:00 a.m., is unreasonable. Commissioner Plummer: No, I mean all of us have jobs to do and work to do, and if we are here hopefully by seven we can be out by nine and go to our respective offices and put in a day's work. Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah. Mayor Carollo: Well, I am willing to meet at anytime on Thursday... Commissioner Plummer: My vote is 7:00 a.m. Commissioner Hernandez: I second seven. Mayor Carollo: ... that the majority of the members of the Commission can meet. Commissioner Hernandez: Mr. Mayor, seven in the morning and I second the motion to study the seven district plan and entertain that. Mayor Carollo: Now, there is motion to meet at 7:00 a.m. on Thursday and to have a plan for seven districts drawn and brought to us. Now, can you accomplish that in time? I believe you can. Dr. Lichtman: I cannot be here on Thursday or Friday or Saturday. Commissioner Plummer: Well, according to Frankie or the other lady, they don't need you. To hell with you, you know. Dr. Lichtman: All right. Well, you know, so you will get (inaudible comments) without... Maybe, Dr. Wilson could be here, I don't know. I can't... Mayor Carollo: Can we talk to you by phone, if need be? 61 July 1, 1997 t .•..cl '. Dr. Lichtman: You can talk to me on the phone Thursday morning, absolutely. But, I can't he here... Mayor Carollo: OK, where you are from, is it the same 7:00 a.m., for us as for you? Dr. Lichtman: Yeah. Washington, D.C. Still on eastern time. Mayor Carollo: OK, yes. Eastern time, all right. Dr. Lichtman: But, I can't promise you that we can produce a plan without first speaking to Dr. Wilson because he actually draws the lines. Commissioner Hernandez: All right. Dr. Lichtman: We can do our best but... Mayor Carollo: But, can you do your very, very best effort, because that is definitely the last time that we are going to be able to consider an additional plan? Dr. Lichtman: Here is what I can promise. I can promise we will do our absolute best... And, as long as Dr. Wilson is around and not off on vacation, we can do it, and I can be available all morning by telephone to speak with this Commission. I just can't he here. I don't think, in person. Mayor Carollo: Then, that's sufficient. Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, that will do it. Mayor Carollo: Plus we save on an airplane ticket. Dr. Lichtman: That's correct. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, included in that, because I have stated from day one, in that motion and I think it has been the concurrence, you spoke strongly on it, that whatever plan comes forth, must show staggered terms. And, that would be incorporated in the motion. Mayor Carollo: I agree with that and I .think that's one of the things that we included as a must. This is the... you know, we are talking about doing what's fair. That' also the fair thing to do. We have two members of this Commission that would have two years left after November, that the people of this City elected and I think it's fair to have staggered terms that would include their seats. In fact, I would think it's right down unfair if we will not do that. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, the only thing in... well, I am not speaking to the motion. There was a second, so we are in discussion. Mayor Carollo: Sure. Commissioner Plummer: But, you know, the only thing I really see going beyond six or more that I very much favor in Dade County and there is not much there that I favor, is the fact that we could go to committees. And, I think that, I like the idea. It's like the legislature, they have committees, different committees that have the opportunity to look into different aspects of government and the projects that you are working on. But, there is no reason you can't do that with less. And... 62 July 1, 1997 JI Mayor Carollo: But, you know we can do that internally, though. I believe in the Dade County Charter, that's not part of their Charter or their code. Correct, Mr. City Attorney? Commissioner Plummer: Well, it's one thing to look into it, it's another thing to have a committee meeting in which you have the opportunity to force people to come before your committee to testify. Mayor Carollo: I think that would he healthy to get into committees. In fact, it would help this Commission, I think get through meetings quicker... Commissioner Plummer: Absolutely. Mayor Carollo: ... and deal with the items that we will be discussing and voting upon in a much more orderly and intelligent manner. Commissioner Plummer: Agreed. Commissioner Hernandez: Mr. Mayor, as a point of clarification, when we speak of staggered terms, what we are saying in fact is that Commissioner Plummer and Vice Mayor Regalado would not have to run if we go to a district plan in November? Mayor Carollo: That's correct. Commissioner Hernandez: OK. Unlike the situation that happened in the County where everybody ran and then some people ran for two years... Commissioner Plummer: Some for four. Commissioner Hernandez: ... while the other ones ran for four years in order to continue the staggered term. Mayor Carollo: That's correct. Commissioner Hernandez: OK. Commissioner Plummer: You know, I think what we are looking at right now, and I'll give you my straw vote as of today. It doesn't mean that I won't change my mind Thursday, is the Hernandez plan, is what I am in favor of, as of today. Mayor Carollo: Excuse me? Commissioner Plummer: Seven might... Seven. Mayor Carollo: I didn't hear you. Commissioner Plummer: As of today... Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: ... if my vote was predicated today, it would be the Hernandez plan. It doesn't mean I can't look at the seven and will look at the seven. But, I think today, that that's the one that I have seen that offers the best. 63 July 1, 1997 Ull Mayor Carollo: OK, the five districts that he has up there? Commissioner Plummer: That's correct, sir. Yeah. Mayor Carollo: That's fine. Well, you have under five you have three that needs to be looked ! at. Three that we have to look at and decide on the plans. Some have somethings more positive J than others but they are all workable plans for a five district. Dr. Lichtman: There is no perfect plan. ` Mayor Carollo: No, there ig no perfect plan. That's correct. Is there any further discussion on the motion that we have before us? Hearing none, all in favor signify by saying !'aye." The Commission (Collectively): Aye. IThe following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 97-443 A MOTION SCHEDULING A SPECIAL COMMISSION MEETING ON THURSDAY, JULY 3, 1997 AT 7 A.M. TO STUDY AND REVIEW PLANS FOR DISTRICT ELECTIONS FOR THE CITY OF MIAMI; FURTHER INSTRUCTING THE DEMOGRAPHIC CONSULTANTS (NAMELY, DOCTORS RUDOLPH WILSON AND ALLAN LICHTMAN) TO DRAW A SEVEN DISTRICT PLAN AND ALSO HAVE THE ABOVE CITED CONSULTANTS AVAILABLE BY PHONE DURING COMMISSION DELIBERATIONS ON SAID PLANS JULY 3RD IN THE MORNING; FURTHER STATING THAT THE COMMISSION IS IN FAVOR OF STAGGERING TERMS OF THE COMMISSION AS PROPOSED BY DISTRICTS. Upon being seconded by Commissioner Hernandez, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Wifredo Gort Commissioner Humberto Hernandez Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado Mayor Joe Carollo NAYS: None. ABSENT: None. 64 July 1, 1997 %601 ^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. DIRECT CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE CHARTER AMENDMENT BALLOT QUESTION FOR DISTRICT ELECTIONS AND EXECUTIVE MAYOR -- PROVIDE CITY COMMISSION WITH REPORT OUTLINING RESPONSIBILITIES OF DADE COUNTY'S EXECUTIVE MAYOR -- DRAFT STRONG MAYOR DOCUMENTS USING DADE COUNTY AS MODEL -- DRAFT CONCISE BALLOT QUESTION. Mayor Carollo: Now, Mr. City Attorney, we need for you to draft wording for the ordinance that we will be needing for district election and for executive Mayor. At the same time, I would like for you to have, hopefully before the end of the day, if not by tomorrow morning, copies to the members of the Commission, of everything that the executive Mayor is responsible for in Dade County government. Go into a wording exactly, in a system exactly as Dade County government has for an executive Mayor. I. think it's the most workable, easiest way to go. And, it's also a system that was voted upon by a majority of City of Miami voters when they voted for that system for Dade County. So, it's a system that the voters already had approved once, they are familiar with and it certainly seems to be working in Dade County now. So, if you can provide the members of the Commission with that information, that should be easy for you to get and have to them before the end of the day. If not, by the latest, tomorrow morning. Commissioner Plummer: Question. Mr. A. Quinn Jones, III, Esq. (City Attorney): Now, do you want a plan that's drafted? I mean, again, you know, in drafting the language I can do it in blank and perhaps...? Mayor Carollo: Exactly. Have it drafted blank. Mr. Jones: OK. Mayor Carollo: And, I think, as you stated, you should be as inclusive and as clear as you can in the language. Mr. Jones: Uh-huh. OK. Mayor Carollo: We don't want something that is very flimsy... Commissioner Plummer: Yes means no. Mayor Carollo:... that someone could try to challenge later on... Commissioner Plummer: Yes means no. Mayor Carollo: ... based upon the wording that we used. Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask a question. Would that be two separate questions or one question? Mr. Jones: Well, I think it's going to be a... Well, let me put it this way, Commissioner. Let me look at it. I can only tell you that what I envision as I have told you before, given the fact that you want to have an executive Mayor with certain powers, whatever, it's going to be more than one question. It can't all be put in one question. 65 July 1, 1997 p Commissioner Plummer: Well, then, I have to ask another question. If you have one for districting and one for yes or no on executive Mayor, and the executive Mayor portion is turned i down, that throws out your districting plan. Mayor Carollo: Well, I think that's... Commissioner Plummer: No, I just... Mayor Carollo: ... one of the things we might need to consider and... Commissioner Plummer: Well, are you saying then that...? Mayor Carollo: ... if they are tied in one to the other. But... Commissioner Plummer: You got to tie it. Mayor Carollo: Well... i Y Commissioner Plummer: If not, you will be forced to go to another election. Unless, you are saying... Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: ... that the Mayor that we know today... -Mr. Jones: Well, what we could do is... Commissioner Plummer: would be a Commissioner running for a district. Mayor Carollo: We could sell it as a package even though they might have to be separate questions. It could be sold as a package that both will only pass if they are both approved by the voters. Mr. Jones: Uh-huh. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, I am not an attorney but I think you can put the questions where the districts... have the districts, whatever the districts, and the Mayor -at -large. Mr. Jones: Uh-huh. Commissioner Gort: Then the other question is the part with the Mayor. Mr. Jones: Yeah, what I am saying, I am looking at it in terms of word limitations. Keep in mind that there is a 75 word limitation. Commissioner Gort: Right. Mr. Jones: So, depending on how detailed, how informed you want the electorate to be will depend on whether it's going to be one or more questions. Mayor Carollo: Uh-huh. Mr. Jones: That's all I am saying. If you want me to try to keep it one or two, whatever, I will do the best I can. But, let me... 66 July 1, 1997 ,;jg� `f�af4f�}:r:t k, Mayor Carollo: Well, you know, I think a lot depends on what the law says. Mr. Jones: Yeah. Mayor Carollo: You are going to have to come back to us on that. Mr. Jones: But, you know, I do need... Mayor Carollo: If it has to be in two questions... Commissioner Plummer: As far as I am concerned, it should not be any more than two. Mr. Jones: Yeah. Mayor Carollo: No, of course not. Mr. Jones: Yeah. But, you know, you want... You had also indicated you wanted to deal with the staggered terms. I don't know that that needs to be... I don't know that that really needs to be part of the Charter amendment. But... Commissioner Plummer: Then, if it's not, l will vote... Mr. Jones: Well, it may very well... It may very well because of the way that you... The present Charter provisions relating to elections, now it's going to have to be amended. So, I think initially, without having looked at it again, that that's going to have to be formulated as part of the question as well. Commissioner Plummer: Inaudible now. Mayor Carollo: Well, you got until Thursday to be absolutely sure in what we have to do, Mr. City Attorney. Mr. Jones: Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. We operate today on staggered terms. Mr. Jones: But, what I am saying to you, there are certain provisions in terms of how the districts are going to be set up, that they are going to have to be amended. That's all I am saying. Commissioner Plummer: Oh, oh, absolutely. That's what we are all about right now. Mr. Jones: Yeah. Mayor Carollo: Now, last but not least. The wording on either the one or two questions that we will be dealing with. It should be in a very clear, precise way. We don't want any yes means no, no means yes. I mean, we want it clear so that everybody could understand what they are voting for. Secondly, it should be written in such a way that if you want districts, if you want executive Mayor, you are voting, yes. Just, like the question that we are going to have in the ballot that you are voting yes, for the City of Miami. Mr. Jones: OK, understood. But, before you go, you need by Charter, you need to pass a resolution directing preparation of the Charter amendment. 67 July 1, 1997 Mayor Carollo: OK, is there a motion? Commissioner Gort: Move it. Mayor Carollo: There is a motion by Commissioner Gort. Vice Mayor Regalado: Second. Mayor Carollo: Second by Vice Mayor Regalado. All in favor signify by saying "aye." i The Commission (Collectively): Aye. Mayor Carollo: There are no "nays." It passed unanimously. J' The following resolution was introduced by Commissioner Gort, who moved its adoption: RESOLUTION NO. 97-444 A RESOLUTION DIRECTING THE CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE AN AMENDMENT(S) TO THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF MIAMI FOR A SPECIAL MUNICIPAL ELECTION TO BE HELD ON THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 4, 1997, TO ! PROVIDE FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A NONVOTING EXECUTIVE MAYOR AND SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS IN THE CITY OF MIAMI AND PROCEDURES FOR ELECTION OF COMMISSIONERS TO REPRESENT SAID DISTRICTS. (Here follows body of resolution, omitted here and on file in the Office of the City Clerk.) Upon being seconded by Vice Mayor Regalado, the resolution was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Wifredo Gort Commissioner Humberto Hernandez Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado Mayor Joe Carollo NAYS: None. ABSENT: None. Mayor Carollo: Is there any further business that we need to... Commissioner Plummer: Yes, a major problems. For two mornings, I have brought the bagels and cream cheese. It's somebody else's term on Thursday. Mayor Carollo: Well, you haven't told me about that, so... Dr. Lichtman: Mr. Mayor? Mayor Carollo: Well, I am going to get one right now, it will be my breakfast. Commissioner Plummer: Well, you got it. 68 July 1, 1997 Y 6 v, iDr. Lichtman: One final thing, in terms of my advice. One last thing, it's very brief. Mayor Carollo: One last thing that we need. Dr. Lichtman: Yeah, if you have on the ballot a district with an odd number of seats, that in effect creates an executive Mayor because otherwise if you had a Mayor with the existing powers you would have an even number of votes on the Commission. IMayor Carollo: That's correct. Keep that in mind when you draft that. Dr. Lichtman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION, THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 1:49 P.M. JOE CAROLLO MAYOR ATTEST: Walter J. Foeman CITY CLERK Maria J. Argudin ASSISTANT CITY CLERK op 6G160QP OL°3lJ7F- 9 69 July 1, 1997