HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1997-06-16 MinutesNov k,
C;l Y MIAMI
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IN 96
PREPARE® BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK
CITY HALL
WALTER FOEMAN
CITY CLERK
INDEX
MINUTES OF SPECIAL. MEETING
June 16,1997
ITEM SUBJECT LEGISLATION
NO.
1. COMMENTS BY VICE MAYOR REGALADO DISCUSSION
REGARDING FLOODS DURING THE WEEKEND -- 6/16/97
CONCERNS THAT SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DOES NOT OPEN FLOOD GATES
AS SOON AS NEEDED. (See label 3)
2. (A) DEFER CONSIDERATION OF PROPOSED M 97-416
IN ERLOCAL AGREEMENT WITH MIAMI SPORTS M 97-417
AND EXHIBITION AUTHORITY (MSEA) FOR 6/16/97
PROPOSED WATSON ISLAND AVIATION AND
VISITORS CENTER -- REDUCE TOTAL PROJECT
AREA TO 8 ACRES -- PAN AMERICAN
SEAPLANES AND HELIPAD.
(B) CITY ATTORNEY TO REVIEW WATSON
ISLAND HELICOPTER CONTRACT FOR EVICTION
PROVISION,
(C) COMMISSIONER PLUMMER STATES
OPPOSITION TO HELICOPTER FACILITY IN
WATSON ISLAND.
(D) ECONOMIC BENEFITS OF PROPOSED
FACILITY.
BENDS 3UBLEASESIBILITIES / LIABILITIES /
(F' LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS OF VOTING FOR
O LY ONE ASPECT OF PROPOSED INTERLOCAL
AGREEMENT.
(G) COMMISSIONER PLUMMER DIRECTS
ADMINISTRATION TO CLEAN UP GARBAGE
(INCLUDING TELEPHONE POLES, GATES, ETC.)
LITTERED ON WATSON ISLAND WHERE BOATS
ARE LOCATED.
(H) MERRETT STIERHEIM PRESENTATION ON
PROPOSED VISITORS CENTER -- ACREAGE
NEEDED, INCLUDING PARKING.
(1) VICE MAYOR REGALADO REQUESTS AREA IN
PROPOSED VISITORS CENTER TO BE
DEDICATED TO PROMOTE CITY OF MIAMI
(INCLUDING LITTLE HAITI, TOBACCO
FACTORIES, LATIN QUARTER, LITTLE HAVANA,
ETC.)
J) LEASE AGREEMENT TERMS.
K) FIRE
PUBLIC STATION
HEARIWILL BE NEEDED.
G.
M) DADE HELICOPTER JET SERVICES, INC. TO
BE NOTIFIED THAT CITY WILL TERMINATE
CONTRACT WITH THEM IN 90 DAYS -- SAID
HELICOPTER COMPANY TO BE OFF PREMISES
IN 90 DAYS.
PAGE
NO,
1-2
3-81
y
fS^
3. DESIGNATE VICE MAYOR REGALADO AS
M 97-418 81-83
REPRESENTATIVE TO MEET WITH SOUTH
6/16/97
FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT
CONCERNING FLOODS IN MIAMI RECENTLY --
ALSO TO MEET WITH DADE COUNTY OFFICIALS
CONCERNING STORM SEWER SYSTEM IN
FLAGAMI AREA. (See label 1)
4. DISCUSSION CONCERNING RUMORS OF
DISCUSSION 83-84
MARRIOTT HOTEL IN COCONUT GROVE AREA
6/16/97
OF PEACOCK PARK / BAYSHORE DRIVE.
5. DISCUSSION CONCERNING POLICE EOC
DISCUSSION 84
(EMERGENCY OPERATIONS CENTER)
6/16/97
BUILDING -- THEFT PROBLEMS.
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE
CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA
On the 16th day of June, 1997, the City Commission of Miami, Florida, met at its regular
meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami, Florida in special session.
The meeting was called to order at 12:19 p.m. by Mayor Joe Carollo with the following
members of the Commission found to be present:
ALSO PRESENT:
ABSENT:
Mayor Joe Carollo
Vice Tomas Regalado
Commissioner Wifredo Gort
Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Edward Marquez, City Manager
A. Quinn Jones, III, City Attorney
Walter J. Foeman, City Clerk
Maria J. Argudin, Assistant City Clerk
Commissioner Humberto Hernandez
An invocation was delivered by Commissioner Plummer, after which, Mayor Carollo led
those present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. COMMENTS BY VICE MAYOR REGALADO REGARDING FLOODS
DURING THE WEEKEND -- CONCERNS THAT SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DOES NOT OPEN FLOOD GATES AS SOON AS
NEEDED. (See label 3)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor.
Mayor Carollo: Yes, Mr. Vice Mayor.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Before we go in today's issue, I would like to ask the Mayor and
members of the Commission to consider a motion for the Administration, in order to take some
action regarding the floods that we had had during the weekend. And I know that you saw most
of the areas that were affected last Saturday. And today, Commissioner Gort was on the radio.
He was getting complaints. I was also on the radio getting a lot of complaints. And I think that
although the City is trying to do its best... I know that Saturday, some of the people from Public
Works were working, but I think that this is a two -fold problem. One part of the problem is the
June 16, 1997
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South Florida Water Management District. This entity does not open the flood gates in the
different areas on time, because of the situation in the Everglades. I have been studying this
issue, and I can tell you that if we were to take some action with the South Florida Water
Management District, meet with them and find out what can they do, a lot of the problems will
be partially solved. The other problem is that...
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, if I may. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but this is an issue that
we're going to have to have some discussion on and as...
Vice Mayor Regalado: Yeah, right. But I just wanted...
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, but as we agreed in our last meeting, we would handle pocket items such
as this towards the end of the meeting.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Right. I don't know if this could be a pocket item.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. This is very important.
Vice Mayor Regalado: It's just a direction to the Administration. But, yeah, it can wait until the
end of the meeting.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Let's handle it then, and let's go right to this one here where we have a
lot of people here for. Can someone from staff turn on the lights that were turned off here,
please? Don't everybody run at the same time. "On" is what we need. Let me go myself and
handle some over there. I think that's where it's at, the other side.
Commissioner Plummer: Don't worry about it. We'll just keep the Administration in the dark.
Mayor Carollo: Well, I had them on.
Commissioner Plummer: It's better that way.
Mayor Carollo: Can someone go back there and get the other side now?
Commissioner Plummer: Here it is.
Mayor Carollo: There you go. All right, and I think we're ready. Guys it's all on, you know.
It's all on.
Commissioner Plummer: No, it's not. Those lights over there are not on. There you go. Bingo.
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Commissioner Hernandez enters the
Commission chamber at 12:21 p.m.
2 June 16, 1997
-------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
2. (A) DEFER CONSIDERATION OF PROPOSED INTERLOCAL
AGREEMENT WITH MIAMI SPORTS AND EXHIBITION
AUTHORITY (MSEA) FOR PROPOSED WATSON ISLAND
AVIATION AND VISITORS CENTER -- REDUCE TOTAL PROJECT
AREA TO 8 ACRES -- PAN AMERICAN SEAPLANES AND
HELIPAD.
(B) CITY ATTORNEY TO REVIEW WATSON ISLAND HELICOPTER
CONTRACT FOR EVICTION PROVISION.
(C) COMMISSIONER PLUMMER STATES OPPOSITION TO
HELICOPTER FACILITY IN WATSON ISLAND.
(D) ECONOMIC BENEFITS OF PROPOSED FACILITY.
(E) MSEA RESPONSIBILITIES / LIABILITIES / BONDS / SUBLEASES.
(F) LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS OF VOTING FOR ONLY ONE ASPECT OF
PROPOSED INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT.
(G) COMMISSIONER PLUMMER DIRECTS ADMINISTRATION TO
CLEAN UP GARBAGE (INCLUDING TELEPHONE POLES, GATES,
ETC.) LITTERED ON WATSON ISLAND WHERE BOATS ARE
LOCATED.
(H) MERRETT STIERHEIM PRESENTATION ON PROPOSED VISITORS
CENTER -- ACREAGE NEEDED, INCLUDING PARKING.
(1) VICE MAYOR REGALADO REQUESTS AREA IN PROPOSED
VISITORS CENTER TO BE DEDICATED TO PROMOTE CITY OF
MIAMI (INCLUDING LITTLE HAITI, TOBACCO FACTORIES,
LATIN QUARTER, LITTLE HAVANA, ETC.)
(J) LEASE AGREEMENT TERMS.
(K) FIRE STATION WILL BE NEEDED.
(L) PUBLIC HEARING
(M) DADE HELICOPTER JET SERVICES, INC. TO BE NOTIFIED THAT
CITY WILL TERMINATE CONTRACT WITH THEM IN 90 DAYS --
SAID HELICOPTER COMPANY TO BE OFF PREMISES IN 90 DAYS.
Mayor Carollo: Jack, before you begin with your presentation and the workshop, again, I'd just
like to have stated on the record the approximate amount of land that is needed for the three-
story, thirty thousand square foot building. It's approximately how large?
Jack Luft (Director, Planning & Development): About an acre.
Mayor Carollo: An acre or under an acre?
Mr. Luft: Yes. You need a footprint for the building of about fifteen to twenty thousand square
feet, which is about a half an acre.
Mayor Carollo: A little less than half an acre.
Mr. Luft: And you will need some parking on site, and some circulation, and walkways, and
landscaping and it's about an acre. You know, it could be less.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
3
June 16, 1997
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Mr. Luft: But it's about a two hundred -by -two hundred parcel, something like that.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Ten to fifteen thousand square feet is what you need for the blueprint of
the building, to actually go in.
Mr. Luft: Right. And you're going to need passenger drop-off areas, and access, and on -site
parking.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Half an acre is slightly over twenty thousand square feet, so...
Mr. Luft: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: Does that include parking?
Mr. Luft: Yes, it would be the on -site parking for the employees, the guests, the immediate VIP
(Very Important Person) vistors. You may want to have... if you we have some other shared
parking on the island, which I think is likely, because there's a lot more other things we'll be
doing on the island, that the... those kinds of extra visitors, especially to the Visitors Center, the
Regional Visitors Center, you'd need some bus loading and drop-off areas, and perhaps some
additional parking. But for the immediate on -site tenants, it's probably in the neighborhood of
an acre.
Mayor Carollo: The reason I want that clarified, Jack, is that I want to put things in perspective.
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Mayor Carollo: So when we get to that point, we can discuss that. If it's actually one acre or
less, let's say one acre, we're getting a building that's five million dollars ($5,000,000). If we
were to give that same value per acre at the Maritime Park, then it would be worth three hundred
million, not the hundred and twenty-one plus million the County has to assess it. So... And I'm
not trying to up the ante to three hundred million on the Maritime Park, let me clarify that. I'm
just trying to show that what we're getting for an acre or less of land, it's certainly, you know,
more than what the actual land is worth.
Mr. Luft: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, you know, I have a problem, and I'll ask a second
question. How much additional land for the heliport, which I'm opposed to?
Mr. Luft: Probably three acres to maybe four.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. So in other words, your total of five acres, how much land area
do you have designated, I assume in the blue plan, which is possibly the new plan?
Mr. Luft: The area for MSEA (Miami Sports and Exhibition Authority), for the lease? I can
come to that. I'd like to building up to that explanation, so we can understand the pieces.
Commissioner Plummer: Just tell me, what is the total amount of acreage in both facilities?
Mr. Luft: In... There's three facilities. There's seaplanes, there's helicopters, and then there's
the Visitors Center Terminal.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. The seaplanes are already there.
4 June 16, 1997
aft,
Fii
Mr. Luft: Yes, they are.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. Now, how much will be for the so-called heliport?
Mr. Luft: About three to four acres.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. Now, what is the total area that's... I assume encompassed in the
black area?
Mr. Luft: About eighteen acres, but there's also some water, some submerged lands in there.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. Of land that you can build on.
Mr. Luft: Correct.
Commissioner Plummer: How much?
Mr. Luft: About eighteen acres.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. So you're talking about one, three... How much for the Chalks?
Mr. Luft: Probably, three to four acres.
Commissioner Plummer: They don't occupy that much now.
Mr. Luft: Yeah, about... Maybe a little bit more, because...
Commissioner Plummer: OK. So three, three and one is seven. Where are the other eleven
acres going?
Mr. Luft: This is where we have the possibility to include military ships, other kinds of cruise
ships that we've talked about, including Watson Island's total agenda along the Government Cut
Channel. That's the white area that you see.
Edward Marquez (City Manager): Mr. Mayor, excuse me. May I interrupt?
Mayor Carollo: Yes.
Mr. Marquez: May I ask that Jack be allowed to present, because he had a presentation from
start to finish and I believe...
Mayor Carollo: And we are, Mr. Manager. I just want to say for the record, I want to kind of,
you know, let things out in the open. And basically, what I want to get clear is exactly what
we're dealing with. It was the Planning Department that suggested some additional acres to be
added on for the benefit of the City.
Mr. Luft: Right.
Mayor Carollo: I will tell you now that all that I would care to see, unless members of the
Commission feel different, is to limit that even more, so it only comprises the actual site of the
building, where it will be less than an acre; the seaplanes, they are there already, and take up at
least as much, if not more land than they're taking now, and the heliport site. Now, we have
helicopters that are taking up at least as much room right now in that island.
5 June 16, 1997
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Mr. Luft: Considerably more.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Mr. Luft: Considerably more.
Mayor Carollo: The only thing that we're going to be doing is reducing the amount that's going
to be there.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, my problem is simply that the heliport is not going to be
bringing in any revenue to the City. Second of all, of course, is the fact that if you fly from
LeJeune Road, the main airport, over to this heliport, you're talking three minutes. And I fail to
see the necessity of having our waterfront land being utilized where the intended use could very
easily go on regular land, not necessarily waterfront. I have no problem...
Mayor Carollo: Then why haven't we thrown out all the helicopters that are there now?
Commissioner Plummer: That's a good question. And there's no answer.
Mayor Carollo: Well, I haven't been here all the last years, Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, all I can say to you is, is that I don't think we need a heliport
over there. That's my feeling. I asked earlier of Mr. Stierheim, could he build his facility on the
monies that he's putting forth, and he felt comfortable that the answer was yes. Now, all I'm
saying is this City needs revenue, and I have no problem of voting to allow this thing today to be
incorporated in the amount of area, because as we recall, or I recall, that the land turned over to
MSEA, beside the Convention Bureau, could be subleased out for City revenue. And that, to
me, is very important.
Mayor Carollo: And that was the idea why the Planning Department came to us with that
suggestion. But we don't want to have anybody think that MSEA is trying to get additional
lands for anything, because frankly, with the nineteen million dollars ($19,000,000) that the
Sports Authority gave this City - otherwise we wouldn't be sitting here today - the Sports
Authority could have bought all those acres there, and more. And if it would have come to the
City requesting to buy it for that amount, we would have told them gladly, yes, because at the
time, we were desperate. And if it hadn't been that we got the nineteen million dollars
($19,000,000), we'd still be desperate today.
Commissioner Plummer: I hear you.
Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Carollo: Yes, Commissioner.
Commissioner Gort: For the benefit of the public and people watching this, and for ourselves, I
think there's a master plan that I believe we approved about two or three years ago. I'd like
Jack, very lightly, if possible, to go over the master plan. Also, to explain what's in existence in
that area, what's the existing use, and what we intend to do, and what is their plans for the new...
I'd like to have that procedure, if possible, because I think it's important that everybody knows
what the master plan is...
Mayor Carollo: Sure.
Commissioner Gort: ... and that this will affect the master plan or if this is part of the master
plan.
6
June 16, 1997
Mayor Carollo: That's true, Commissioner. All that we're trying to do is flush the quail out in
this whole thing.
Commissioner Plummer: And I think the Parrot Jungle was there on the master plan.
Mayor Carollo: But I am one that's willing to put a motion and throw all those helicopters that
are flying into Watson Island that are not paying us nothing, throw them out right today, if we
can.
Commissioner Gort: Well, my understanding is now, they're not paying, but if a lease is put
together, they might have to start paying then.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, it seems that from what we're hearing now, and what we
heard the other day, most of the members of this Commission have a problem with the whole
plan. So in order not to waste time, why don't we go ahead and hear about the building?
Because it seems there may be a consensus on the building. But I have a problem with the whole
plan, and I heard all the Commissioners talking about the whole plan.
Commissioner Plummer: My only problem, just for the record, and then I'll be quiet, is the
heliport. Everything else, I'm very much in favor of. I like the way they've repositioned to give
the City more land available for a future project. The only thing I say to you, or I say is, is that a
heliport there is not necessary. It is not revenue -producing for the City. All income they derive
goes back to them, including the concessions and everything that they have there. So I have no
problem with the plan, except the heliport. That's just one vote.
Mayor Carollo: Jack, before you begin to make your presentation... and I apologize that we've
held you off for a few minutes here. Can you explain to us on this heliport where the dollars will
be going to?
Mr. Luft: Yes. The dollars to build the heliport will come from the State, and from the
helicopter services that would occupy it. The revenues, which they must pay fair market rent -
those are FDOT (Florida Department of Transportation) rules - would go into the trust fund for
the operation of the seaplane base, the ticket terminal and the heliport. It would be a combined
airport fund. Out of that fund, revenues to the City for services provided, police, fire, traditional
municipal services would be paid from that fund... from those revenues, including helicopters
and seaplanes, back to the City for its municipal services that we would provide on an annual
basis.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, now, I've got a problem. In your statement, you said that those
funds would go back into the operation of the seaplanes? That's a private, profit -making
corporation. Why would any money be going to subsidize their operation? I think that's wrong.
They're profit -making. I don't understand that at all. I understand the heliport, if it were a go
item, that they would... the funds would go back into them. They're not a profit -making
organization. That's a governmental agency.
Mr. Luft: They are, they are... No, they're not.
Commissioner Plummer: The heliport is a private?
Mr. Luft: Those private air carriers, air services...
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. The heliport, itself, will be owned by the Federal
government, correct?
7 June 16, 1997
w)
Mr. Luft: No, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Who'll own that?
Mr. Luft: The City of Miami. It's ours.
Commissioner Plummer: Who will operate it?
Mr. Luft: Whoever you choose to sublease for helicopter services.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. And the revenues that are derived from there stay in that trust
fund for the maintenance and operation of the heliport and the seaplanes?
Mr. Luft: It's a combined air facility, and there will be shared expenses on parking and
operations, maintenance, security that will have to come out of that airport fund to make sure it
operates.
Commissioner Plummer: Does Chalks now...
Mr. Luft: It will be no cost to the City.
Mayor Carollo: Pan American.
Commissioner Plummer: Does Chalks now receive any money for subsidy of maintenance and
operations?
Mr. Luft: They would... No, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: I didn't think so.
Mr. Luft: And neither would the helicopters.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mr. Luft: They... The private businesses would do their own maintenance and operations, but
there are common... Just like at Miami International Airport or any airport, there are common
areas and common services that are provided through the collection of transportation services
that are there, and those must be provided for out of this special fund.
Mr. Marquez: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Carollo: To enlighten my colleague, they're not the Miami Heat or Florida Panthers
Airlines. They're a heliport service. So the monies are kept, not given to them.
Mr. Marquez: Mr. Mayor...
Commissioner Plummer: I fully understand that, Joe, but any... I don't know why we should be
subsidizing a profit -making corporation.
Mayor Carollo: Well, but we're not going to. Those dollars are going to.., for the parking, for
security, for the...
Mr. Luft: Yes.
8 June 16, 1997
Commissioner Plummer: Who pays for it now?
Mayor Carollo: ... upkeep of our terminal that's there.
Commissioner Plummer: In Chalks Airline, who pays for it now?
Mayor Carollo: We don't have any...
Commissioner Plummer: They do.
Mayor Carollo: We do not have any parking there.
Mr. Luft: That's why it looks the way it does.
Mayor Carollo: We do not have terminal facilities there.
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mayor Carollo: That's the difference.
Mr. Luft: If I may begin at the beginning, so we can appreciate the picture and how this has
begun.
Mayor Carollo: Very good, Jack. Go ahead, then.
Mr. Luft: OK. Watson Island has a seventy-five year history of seaplanes, and approximately a
forty-five year history of helicopter services to this community. The difficulty with the heliport
services is that they have been located on the interior of the island and as such, have required
over -flight approach zones on that island for... since the early '50s, that have taken over twenty
acres of that island out of effective alternative use. You cannot use it for recreation, you cannot
develop it, because of the glide path requirements of the- helicopters. Clearly, that was
unacceptable. In the Watson Island master plan, we said either the helicopters must go, because
the land is too valuable to be taking up that much space, or if they can be positioned along the
shoreline using over -water approaches, which most major cities do that have the advantage of a
shoreline location, we could limit that heliport service to a few pads, a few hangars, and very
limited amount of land, and continue with the vital service to this community. Now, let me
describe that for you. The State of Florida has begun, and just in recent years, a regional heliport
and helicopter services plan for the greater South Florida area, Palm Beach to Monroe County.
They've done that because it's become obvious that in the scheme of things, in moving people
about in a major metropolitan area, surface road transportation systems in the next ten to twenty
years are simply going to be insufficient for many types of travel within and amongst that
metropolitan area. The demand centers are growing, the road systems are breaking down. It is
simply impractical to fly from Miami International to Fort Lauderdale International on the kinds
of on -demand services that we need. Every metropolitan region of any size is now planning, as
we are, with the State of Florida, for a regional system of heliports and helicopter landing pads
and services. Hello. This map here is extracted from the Howard, Needles, Tamin and
Bergendorf (phonetic) Regional Heliport System plan, which shows demand centers. There are
several in and around the downtown area, Fort Lauderdale, and emerging West Dade areas, a
circle of high travel demands that must be interconnected and can only be efficiently and
practically done by a heliport system. To resolve these demand center movements, and a lot of
them are corporate and business and emergency services, they have constructed a larger... now
9 June 16, 1997
planned for regional heliport systems that are connecting Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Miami,
South Dade, Homestead, the Florida Keys and inclusive of the Bahamas. There's a good bit of
helicopter international travel that comes in. Many governmental agencies use this, Federal and
State. It's been vital in our hurricane services in Andrew. There were thousands of flights in
and out of Watson Island. The reason being, it is very difficult to bring helicopter services into a
built up, urbanized area. The noise impacts, the hazard impacts are simply not easily overcome
in built up areas. Using over -water approaches and a simple, small shoreline location is the
ideal. And what Watson Island becomes in this regional system is, in fact, the hub facility of the
regional plan for heliport services. We're looking out twenty, thirty years now. It's a vital link
in our transportation package. It was because of that that we went to the Florida Department of
Transportation and asked them if they would join the City in assisting us, because we didn't feel
it was proper for the City to bear the cost of that service or the impacts on the land by ourselves.
We were looking for help. The State of Florida, in fact, was very excited about the possibility of
participating with us in creating a Watson Island hub facility. That's why they've now agreed to
pay, and contractually have committed to fifty percent of all air transportation costs, including
seaplanes and helicopters. But it's important that this Commission understands that it was the
helicopter services merging with this regional plan that became the key for the State's
participation. David Bjorneboe, who is here, Chief Planner, Aviation Planner from FDOT, will
tell you - we just talked earlier, we've been talking along for several months - that in their minds,
the key component for their participation in fifty percent of these costs for all of these facilities,
including the terminal building for Mr. Stierheim's organization, and all the community services
that come, is the helicopter services. It's very important this Commission understands that. We
have tried to come up with a scheme, and we will be working, if you permit us, to confine that to
a very limited area. But we see the helicopter services providing essential corporate air travel
between emerging business centers in the South Florida area. It is virtually impossible on any
kind of schedule basis to bring those helicopters into the urban core. This is as much to support
our downtown, and Brickell, and financial center as anything. Watson Island has been key in
that regard. It is for emergency operations, it is for courier service, it is for surveyors and
convention planners. Mr. Stierheim will tell you that in the operations of the Convention
Bureau, the utilities and services of the Watson Island heliport have been key in their
understanding and presenting to regional and international organizations coming to Miami the
layout of our community, how it works and how they can plan their activities and functions more
efficiently. You can accomplish in thirty minutes in a helicopter what it would take hours to do
at the ground. It is part of their services that are constantly bringing large groups of meeting
planners to the facility. It's a very strong relationship, and it is for that reason that FDOT agreed
that they would be pleased to fund fifty percent of the Convention Bureau facilities, because of
that intrinsic link to the heliport services. Let's talk about seaplanes, which is changing
dramatically. Right now, the seaplane operation has been limited in years past to a very limited
shuttle service to a few hotels in the Bahamas, a stop at Bimini, and a few out islands. That
picture has changed dramatically with the participation now and the incoming of the new Pan
Am Air Bridge linked to Pan American World Airlines. Today as we speak, there is a new
seaplane base being built in Freeport, Grand Bahamas by the Hutchinson, Wapala (phonetic)
International Investment Group from Hong Kong. They are completely rebuilding all port and
airport for services in Freeport, and they, this private firm, are paying for the new seaplane base
for Pan American Air Bridge, because they need a corporate link from the new trade and
international business community that's coming to Freeport as a multi -billion dollar
development. They need a link to downtown Miami, and the seaplanes are that link. They have
been.... just negotiated a contract. They'll be opening their seaplane base July 16th, and that will
be the key link, is through Watson Island, as a part of this new Visitors Terminal and
Transportation Center. They are negotiating with Disney now for services not only to Lake
Buena Vista in the Magic Kingdom, but to the out islands where Disney and the cruise ships, as
well as Norwegian Caribbean Cruise Lines, who has just signed a contract with Pan Am Air
Bridge to provide seaplane services to all the out island resort development that the cruise lines
are going through. We're expanding the network to Eleuthra, Bahamas and the out islands, as
10 June 16, 1997
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well as they're negotiating a new seaplane ramp in Key West for now regularly scheduled
service. Because they haven't had a seaplane ramp in Key West, it's been very difficult to do
that. Ultimately, they're looking to expand to Tampa. This will be the hub facility for seaplane
services. I've asked Burke Hillman (phonetic)... Nick Nasta (phonetic), who is an aviation
planner with Burke Hillman, who has been working with Wilfred Alvarez, major aviation
planners of Miami International Airport, to join us today. Nick is from Burke Hillman. He has
been working with both heliport planning services throughout the State of Florida, as well as
Miami International Airport, and he has prepared for us what he believes to be conservative
projections that have been shown to FDOT, and have been accepted by them as the numbers that
they would use in the projections of services at this facility. We're looking at forecasts of travel
right now. These numbers are significant, and I want you to understand, they're conservative.
We're looking at helicopter services that, in terms of operational flights - that's a flight in and a
flight out - are looking to grow to thirty thousand flights a year, and ultimately, within twenty
i years, to sixty thousand flights. This is from Watson Island. This is how vital that heliport
service is to the region and to our central community. This is a hub facility. On seaplanes, we're
looking at fifty thousand passengers, conservatively, next year through this facility, as well as
growth to nearly a hundred thousand, and conservatively, by the time the full implementation of
the Freeport, Bahamas network is expanded, over three hundred thousand, within ten to fifteen
years. This does not include opening up of Cuba and Havana, where the seaplanes would be the
integral Iink into the downtown Havana area and the business community, should that ever
happen.
Mayor Carollo: So, you're saying, Jack, that right now, it's fifty thousand passengers going
through seaplanes.
Mr. Luft: Right now, it's substantially less than that. But the network that's being implemented,
the contracts that have been signed, in Freeport, the Bahamas and throughout the State, now that
the Pan Am Air Bridge takeover has occurred, they're looking at, conservatively, fifty thousand
passengers next year.
Mayor Carollo: For next year.
Mr. Luft: Very likely, more than that.
Mayor Carollo: And in the next five to ten years, fifteen years, what is the potential?
Mr. Luft: Three hundred and fifty thousand, Watson Island.
Mayor Carollo: In how many years?
Mr. Luft: In ten... by the year 2017.
Mayor Carollo: 2017.
Mr. Luft: 2017 is the twenty-year profile out to three fifty. We're looking at, conservatively, in
ten years, two hundred thousand passengers on seaplanes.
Commissioner Plummer: And yet, the seaplanes have never made money.
Mr. Luft: They've never made money because...
Commissioner Plummer: They're all losing money. As long as Chalks has been there, they've
never made any money.
11 June 16, 1997
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Mr. Luft: Yes. The principal reason, sir, is they have never been a feeder airline to a major MIA
(Miami International Airport) carrier. They've always operated as an independent, and as
strictly a resort shuttle to Nassau and to Freeport.
Commissioner Plummer: And they're not going to fly, if they don't get that twenty million
dollar ($20,000,000) loan from the County, which it looks like it's doubtful.
Mr. Luft: I've asked Bill Jones, who is the general manager... operations manager for Pan Am
Air Bridge to join us today. He can address the contracts they're signing, the plans they've laid
` out, the projects they've had. They are very real. They're proceeding...
f Commissioner Plummer: If they have a helicopter land at - I'm sorry - a seaplane land at
Watson Island, what are their landing fees and who does the money go to?
Mr. Luft: Based upon these projections, we are looking at an operational program for the Island
that shows landing fees being paid in the realm of two hundred and twenty-six thousand dollars
($226,000).
Commissioner Plummer: Is that both?
Mr. Luft: That's both.
Commissioner Plummer: What... I'm asking for Chalks, for the seaplanes.
Mr. Luft: Have we broken that down, Nick, separated that out? We have prepared... We've
been working very hard, very quickly.
Commissioner Plummer: Where does the money go to?
Mr. Luft: The money goes... These fees... All of these fees, landing fees, tie -downs, monthly
storage, fuel fees, commercial vehicle access and rents, market rents, all go into the Airport Trust
Fund.
Commissioner Plummer: Why is it that International Airport landing fees are paid to the
County?
Mr. Luft: I don't know how the County operates.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, why is it that...
Mr. Luft: I know that MIA is a self-contained economic entity.
Commissioner Plummer: They all pay landing fees, and the money goes to the County. Yet
here, we're subsidizing a profit -making corporation.
Mr. Luft: David?
Commissioner Plummer: We know in Freeport, or at least I think we all know, that Freeport's
going to be giving the Port of Miami a fit, because they're putting in gantry cranes over there to
eliminate Federal taxation. And they're going to be unloading over there a great deal, where
they've been using Miami, and the port here is going to be going down. We know that. They've
already ordered, from my information, five gantry cranes for Freeport. Now, it just comes back
to me... Go back to the other chart, the one with three hundred and fifty thousand passengers.
12 June 16, 1997
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Mayor Carollo: Are you pulling for the new Port Director's job at the Port?
Commissioner Plummer: I'd love to have it. A hundred and seventy-five thousand a year plus
perks. You bet your bippie, I'd love to have it.
Mayor Carollo: He is.
Commissioner Plummer: Jack, if those projections, conservative or otherwise, are correct, that
island can't hold three hundred and fifty thousand passengers a year. There is no way. You
couldn't take the entire island for parking to accommodate three hundred and fifty thousand
passengers on those - well, I'm sorry - four hundred and eight thousand, if you combine the both
of them. Now, I'm going to throw one thing...
Mayor Carollo: Where do you figure that at, J.L.? There's three hundred and sixty-five days in
a year...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, the year 2017, according to his conservative numbers, there will
be four hundred eight thousand seven hundred passengers per year. Now that's... I'm using his
numbers.
Mayor Carollo: Most of the passengers that will be coming, we're talking less than a thousand at
the most or approximately a thousand a day...
Commissioner Plummer: Fifteen hundred.
Mayor Carollo: No, no, nowhere near fifteen hundred. Three hundred sixty-five days a year...
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mayor Carollo: ... if you...
Commissioner Plummer: All right, go with a thousand.
Mr. Luft: The primary activity is a link...
Mayor Carollo: Most of these people would be coming by... not by their own transportation, but
by taxis, mini -buses, limousines, what have you.
Mr. Luft: Correct.
Commissioner Plummer: It's still traffic.
Mayor Carollo: Someone else will be dropping them.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask one other question, if I may. Was any other site ever
considered?
Mr. Luft: Yes. They attempted to try to make something work on Dodge Island, but with the
cruise ships in, the flight angles and approach zones with the gantry cranes and the ships simply
wouldn't allow that to work.
Commissioner Plummer: How about Virginia Key on land which is a landfill, which we can't
build on? It's out over water, it's not in an urban area, we can't use it for much of anything, we
couldn't even build a stable over there.
13 June 16, 1997
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Mr. Luft: Because you have a critical wildlife area, bird sanctuary...
Commissioner Plummer: Not on top of the landfill.
Mr. Luft: Immediately adjacent to it, the boundary of that. Remember the twenty acres and the
flight and the approach zone. Helicopters do not drop straight down. They come in on a low
approach. You're eventually going to have to either cross the recreational beaches, or
environmental preserves, in order to land in the center of the island.
Commissioner Plummer: You're crossing the two yacht clubs, you're crossing the Convention
Center...
Mr. Luft: No, sir, no, sir. That's not true.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. Hey...
Mr. Luft: The approach zones on Watson Island - and this is why we've laid it out the way it is -
are strictly confined to Government Cut Channel.
Commissioner Plummer: You could put it on Virginia Key out over the water, and it wouldn't
bother anybody, period.
Mr. Luft: I would say that would be extremely difficult. The environmental impacts would be
significant, unless...
Commissioner Plummer: I'm just sorry you... I'm just sorry...
Commissioner Hernandez: Jack, what about the environmental impact on Parrot Jungle? Have
you spoken to them?
Mr. Luft: They won't... This will, in fact, eliminate the problems we have today, because today,
with the helicopters landing next to the Causeway, some percentage of those flights come off of
this direction, which comes over Parrot Jungle. By moving that to the shoreline, we've done a
hundred and sixty degree crone of access on the preliminary layout and the EIS on this thing.
All of those flights would be over Government Cut Channel. None would be over the balance of
the island, any other portion of the island. You'd simply be seeing helicopters landing at a pad
within fifty feet of the shoreline. It's that fifty feet that they would be covering, nothing else.
Mayor Carollo: But not only that, but Pan American seaplanes are grandfathered in there.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: So, I mean, we're not talking about reinventing the wheel here. They're
already... they're going to be there.
Commissioner Hernandez: Well, what about the helicopters?
Mr. Luft: It's not an operating landfill. It's been closed for twenty years.
Commissioner Plummer: No, but what we are talking about is paying their cost. That's where
I've got a problem. We're going to paying their maintenance, their security, their parking.
Mayor Carollo: Well, the helicopters, gentlemen, I tell you where I'm going to stand. If we're
going to find excuses to try to kill this, because of helicopters, let's get rid of all the other
14 June 16, 1997
helicopters, because I'm not voting for something to protect any particular helicopter agency
that's there now. If this is bad because of helicopters, let's get rid of the ones that are there right
today, you know.
Commissiner Plummer: They're on a 30-day...
Mayor Carollo: But if we want to go back to the stone age, I mean we could, you know, just
forget about helicopters, about planes. Helicopters have been there since J.L. was a young boy.
All of a sudden, you know, they're bad, we got to get them out of there.
Mr. Luft: What we have tried to present to you is a plan that... for basically the expense of
keeping the seaplanes and a few acres for helicopter services. We can bring to the table half the
funding from FDOT. This is in the neighborhood of four to five million dollars ($5,000,000), for
the total project from FDOT to facilities that will be owned by the City of Miami. The
Administration has attempted to present you a plan that can work, that will provide us a world
class facility. If you choose not to do that, especially in the helicopters, I believe, from all of my
discussions through Tallahassee and FDOT offices here, we would not get those at fifty percent
funding. We would have to rely on the Visitors Bureau for whatever they would have and for
whatever...
Mayor Carollo: And they would not be able to fund it by themselves, nor could we afford to pay
the other half.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Merrett, you indicated to me that the money that you're
putting up would, in fact, be sufficient to do what you need in the way of a building. Am I
correct or am I wrong?
Mr. Merrett Stierheim: My concern was the entire project supports, the infrastructure, roads,
parking area, utilities. I don't know that there's been any estimate on the cost of running water
and sewer lines, landscaping...
Commissioner Plummer: We're already doing that.
Mr. Stierheim: ... external. Our needs right now in the total building are somewhere in the range
of twenty-five thousand square feet, more or less. It could be thirty thousand, it could be a little
less.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, surely you could build a building...
Mr. Stierheim: At a hundred dollars ($100) a square foot...
Commissioner Plummer: Two and a half million dollars.
Mr. Stierheim: Hold on. You need to have that land... That building has to be elevated,
hurricane... A hundred is a little light, and I don't know that it takes into consideration any of
the other surface things. So, yes, probably the bulk of the building could be built.
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you.
Mr. Stierheim: You know, maybe we would add... could add more dollars to it. We've been
talking in the range of two and half million. But I would really want to see an engineering study
to make... to give you a totally accurate and honest answer.
Commissioner Plummer: Of course, That's why we're here at a workshop.
15 June 16, 1997
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Mr. Stierheim: Yeah. Is that a fair answer?
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, again, I hope you understand what I said. I have no
problem with the seaplanes being there. I do have a problem in subsidizing the seaplanes. My
only problem is with the heliport, which I feel could go elsewhere. Other than that, I'm in favor
of the total project. I think it's a good project. I think Merrett's operation should be over there.
It's going to be near the most attractive attraction we have for tourists, which is going to be the
Parrot Jungle, and I just think that... other than that, I think that what we ought to be doing is
getting revenue -producing. So I'm not opposed to the project, I'm not trying to kill the project.
Merrett has indicated that if the heliport is not there, he can still continue, so that's not killing the
project. The project is still on line.
Mr. Marquez: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Carollo: I didn't quite hear that, but Mr. Manager, go ahead.
Mr. Marquez: A couple of points that I just want to make, and I'm going to turn it... toss it right
back to Jack in just one second. First of all, the New World Committee of the Greater Miami
Chamber of Commerce has endorsed this project because of the economic impacts.
Commissioner Plummer: So what? I mean, you know... no. My opinion, you know, of the
Chamber of Commerce has always been the same. They get on board, if something goes well,
they take credit. If they don't, you can't find them and they've never yet ever put a dollar ($1)
towards a project, but they talk a lot. So what they endorse, so be it.
Mr. Marquez: This project also enables the City to obtain municipal service payments from the
helicopters, which we currently do not get now.
Commissioner Plummer: Or something else that might go there that produces revenue, you
would also...
Mayor Carollo: Quinn Jones, City Attorney.
A. Quinn Jones, III, Esq. (City Attorney): Here.
Mayor Carollo: What can prevent us from throwing out every single helicopter out of Watson
Island right now? I mean if that's what the Commission wants to do...
Commissioner Plummer: Thirty -day revocable licenses.
Mr. Jones: The only thing that... Remember that there was a... there was a lawsuit that we... that
the Commission authorized or directed us to file against Chalks to evict them some years ago. I
think it was back in 1987.
Mayor Carollo: But we're talking about helicopters, not the seaplanes.
Mr. Jones: Oh. Well, I have to look into it, Mr. Mayor. To be honest with you, I don't know.
Commissioner Plummer: I can answer that for you. It's a thirty- day revocable license. The
problem is, the revenue they're supposed to be paying the City, they haven't paid the City. The
time in the... I think it's ten hours a month that they're supposed to give the City, the City hasn't
gotten. There's a dispute between the operator and the City as to how much time they've used,
and whether it was cumulative, or whether it was ten months or nothing. The answer is, it's a
revocable thirty -day, as I recall.
16 June 16, 1997
4ei�-Vl 1�`L,
Mayor Carollo: Well, Mr. City Attorney, could you look into that? Because depending on what
the outcome of this is, we might very well be presenting a motion to get rid of whatever service
we have out there, and we should look as to what we're getting paid out there right now.
Commissioner Plummer: Or not getting paid.
Mayor Carollo: Frankly, I don't really think this is about three acres, more or less, being given
to a helicopter pad or not. No question about it, if we have a professional terminal there that
would have seaplanes and helicopters, it's going to be in the benefit of the whole City. You
know, we want to become a modern city. I do not want to go back to the stone age. And by
having a modern city, if we have been having helicopters there for years and years, I cannot buy
into the argument that by putting... assigning three acres that's going to help build and bring
additional value to the rest of the island, and to the rest of downtown Miami, Miami Beach, other
parts of greater Miami, that this is going to be to our detriment. On the contrary. But...
Mr. Luft: The Miami International Airport, some years ago, under Dick Judy, decided that they
were going to create a hub facility at Miami International Airport. I think they spent close to
fifteen million dollars ($15,000,000) to try to do that. What they overlooked was that the
operational difficulties of bringing a helicopter into the flight paths at Miami International
Airport - and remember you're sharing the same air space by the time you get to that terminal -
is extremely difficult. Once you get to the terminal, you have to go through several levels of
Customs and security clearance to get from the helicopters to the ground. Then you have got to
deal with the ground transportation, and the parking, and the cost. Helicopter services for
corporate travel between centers like Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Pompano Beach, Vero Beach,
simply will not go into Miami International unless its connecting to an air flight. What we're
trying to say to you, and I want... it's my responsibility as your Planner to tell you this. We are
trying to plan a modern transportation system that will be to the economic benefit of the largest
concentration of businesses in the region. All other economic centers of growth in South Florida
are planning heliport services because it will be a necessary form of travel in the next twenty
years. If we do not do it on Watson Island, my fear would be we would find it incredibly
difficult, if not impossible, to do it anywhere else. There's been some talk of barges off of
Bayfront Park, really last ditch kind of desperate efforts to bring in heliport services. They are
not practical. This is... In our opinion, our recommendation is that this a plan for a facility for
the future. The economic benefits, which are the kinds of intangible support for our corporate
community is significant. You cannot measure it in rent payments to the City, although we're
looking at in excess of a hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) in service payments to the City
from this combined facility. And the heliport portion is the key for the State of Florida to
participate in helping us bring this about. Thank you very much.
Commissioner Plummer: Has any consideration been given, as we know, to the people on the
north side of Venetian Causeway, how much hell they raised about the noise of the Parrot
Jungle?
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: What about the noise of the helicopters coming in and out of... how
many flights a day?
Mr. Luft: Because they're over Government Cut, sir. And not today.
Commissioner Plummer: You think that noise...
Mr. Luft: Today, they're coming in over the Japanese Gardens and off the north, because of the
necessity of reaching the center of the island. We can limit those helicopter travel services to the
1.7 June 16, 1997
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Government Cut Channel and the intracoastal waterway. In fact, this will be a huge
improvement over the impacts on those surrounding neighborhoods.
Commissioner Plummer: When you start a jet helicopter, you'll hear it over there.
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Gott?
Commissioner Gott: Let me ask you a question, Jack. My understanding is, whenever you
travel, you pay taxes. Are these Federal, State or could it also be City taxes per passenger?
Mr. Luft: Yes. There will be other economic benefits that flow out of sales taxes and field taxes
that come back to the City through the State.
Commissioner Gott: But also, I'm talking the ticket itself.
Mr. Luft: The ticket, you pay a tax, passenger's service tax. That's what funds the Airport Trust
Fund for the Federal Aviation Administration.
Commissioner Plummer: It's all going to them.
Mayor Carollo: This is something, Commissioner, that I'm sure that if it already hasn't been
endorsed by the Downtown Development Authority, which you chair, if you would bring it up to
a vote, your members would almost unanimously, if not unanimously, be in favor of it, because
the main beneficiary of this is going to be the economic engine. That's our engine in downtown
Miami.
Commissioner Gott: Mr. Mayor, The Downtown Development Authority was approached about
three years ago, when I first got elected, and I took over that agency, and they wanted to get
Watson Island at that time to try to create something similar. This is something.., an agreement
that was made with the... in lieu of payments to the Convention Visitors Bureau, to build this
facility together to create attraction. The reason DDA was not able to do it is because that's out
of the jurisdiction of DDA. But what I'd like to know is, if possible, if you could explain the
master plan for the whole island, and how this would benefit the rest of the plans. Because the
problem is, a lot of people believe that we're giving the whole island away with this plan. And
my understanding is, we're going to try to reduce it as much as we can. And I'd like to see the
complement with this project to the rest of the island and the other project, and the RFP (Request
for Proposal) that we hope to bring out.
Mr. Luft: The first component of that was the achievement of the Parrot Jungle as a destination
visitors attraction.
Commissioner Gott: Also... Jack, I'm sorry. Let me interrupt for a minute. I think it's also
important to express the limited restrictions that we have within that.
Mr. Luft: The deed from 1949 from the State explicitly states that we may only use this island
for public and governmental purpose. To lease this island commercially for commercial
businesses, we must go through an RFP process, and we must have the Governor and Cabinet
provide a waiver of deed. The State, however, views airport and air transportation facilities
differently, because of State law. They consider that part of a municipal governmental function,
even though the carriers are private. What we're trying to do here is build a complex that this
Commission set out years ago of visitor destination attractions, things that would showcase
Miami and its community to its visitors and its own residents, create educational, cultural,
environmental and recreational enjoyment to be operated through public/private sector
partnerships. The first step with Parrot Jungle, we're all surely pleased that we're going to have
18 June 16, 1997
a regional visitor attraction. The next step would be for this Commission to determine what
complex of activities and services could go largely on the south side, since we reserved the boat
ramp and clubs for the balance of the north side of the island. What other types of activities and
attractions could be built on the south side to provide those services? Clearly providing
alternative access schemes, alternative transportation services to that visitors destination
complex is key. It has worked out conveniently enough because of the convergence of interest
between the Greater Miami Visitors Convention Bureau, the State of Florida DOT, and our plan
that the visitors center has become an important part of communicating these attractions, the
overall tourist destination and visitor destination draw that we're creating for the economic
development of downtown and the center City of Miami. They would provide a regional visitors
center that would become the showcase for promoting our business community and our
attractions. This is the one -stop shopping for all meeting planners. All convention planners and
all visitor tourist destination activities in the entire South Florida area would come to here. By
adding to that the seaplanes, which is a key international link in that network of transportation
services, plus the helicopters, which has proven to be a very valuable subcomponent to the
meeting planners, and convention planners, and the people that come through their offices to
survey and understand the South Florida region, we have used a few acres to augment and
extend those kinds of service packages for that visitor destination complex. But if we continue
this way, we could also include ship activities, military ships, other types of visitors that could
come here. That's why the MSEA boundary was drawn, to allow this entity, if it was desired by
this Commission, to bring those other types of services to include those. Those would be
legitimate transportation maritime activities to add to the aviation component. If you wish, that
boundary can be pulled back. Commissioner Plummer, at the last meeting, extended that he
wanted everything across this area left open for future development. That could easily be done...
just a movement of the line. That's the kind of boundary adjustment that an amendment to the
interlocal agreement can easily accomplish. What we're trying to do is give you a flexible
package, an area within which to plan. If you choose to pull back from that and shrink it, you
can do that. If you choose to leave it where it's at and pursue other types of activities in here,
cultural facilities are amongst those that you could consider under this MSEA agreement, this
instrument, then there wouid be the lands there to do that. It's strictly up to you. If, as the
Mayor said at the beginning of the meeting, you wanted to confine that to strictly air
transportation services, whatever those might be, plus the visitor center, you could shrink it to
that handful of acres.
Commissioner Plummer: The black area right now is the eighteen acres?
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: From that, what I'm going to say north, on the south side of the
Causeway, how many acres are remaining up that could be developed?
Mr. Luft: About twelve of the eighteen.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, from the line... No, no, go up. Up.
Mr. Luft: Here?
Commissioner Plummer: That line. From that line, up to how many acres is left?
Mr. Luft: Eighteen acres.
Commissioner Plummer: So it's thirty-six total, and they're using half.
Mr. Luft: Uh-huh.
19 June 16, 1997
Commissioner Plummer: Now, in the eighteen of what is going to MSEA, can there be other
subleases within that eighteen acres? Is there room for additional items that could be revenue
producing?
Mr. Luft: Surely. The airport boundary would be that portion which would confine the revenues
from the seaplanes and helicopters. And by the way, there's no subsidy there. It's all their
money they're paying in their fuel and their rents.
Commissioner Plummer: I understand that.
Mr. Luft: It's keeping their monies to operate that facility.
Commissioner Plummer: But going back...
Mr. Luft: But outside of that boundary, in all of these areas that appear as white on this map,
( within that black line, those are areas that you may lease to activities that are of a destination,
public attraction type nature, or the maritime nature with which the revenues would come
directly to you.
jCommissioner Plummer: And where is the parking going?
Mr. Luft: The parking would have to be configured within that, depending on what you do. If
you put terminals along here, you would put the parking in the area back behind that. If you put
another attraction in here, you may build a garage, as Parrot Jungle is doing. You may try to use
a joint -use parking facility. It would take some planning and mixing and matching of the
footprints. It's hard for us to project here, not knowing what those uses are, how you would fit it
together.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, the only reason I'm asking, Jack, in the last plan, the original
plan you showed us, you showed two areas for parking.
Mr. Luft: Right. We have... We know we have bus parking and services that are occurring in
here, and some turnarounds, an area for destination drop-off. That's an agreement that's been
worked out between Parrot Jungle and FDOT, because they own the right-of-way under the
bridge, and we may seek to extend that to better accommodate that movement of vehicles, large
vehicles, so there was one circle in here. Then there was a circle in here, where... for the sake of
the island, in order to reduce a lot of traffic that was moving in amongst... between things, we
thought that a central pool of parking, commonly operated by the City for the benefit of all
visitors to the island, whether they were going to the Visitors Center, or Parrot Jungle or
whatever, with a little internal tram system, you could more efficiently handle your
transportation impacts by pooling that parking in one central location. That was the thought that
could be done at grade, initially. As the demand expanded, you could add layers or decks to that
to meet that growing demand.
Commissioner Plummer: How many acres is Parrot Jungle?
Mr. Luft: Seventeen acres.
Commissioner Plummer: Seventeen. About the area that you're talking about in the black now,
roughly.
Mr. Luft: Correct.
20 June 16, 1997
ter.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. What... Mr. Manager, what is the minimum annual guarantee
from the Parrot Jungle for that, when they're in operation?
Mr. Marquez: It's two hundred thousand in year one...
Mayor Carollo: Two hundred thousand, year two; three hundred thousand, year three...
Commissioner Plummer: And then it jumps up.
Mayor Carollo: ... year four is four hundred thousand.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: A lot more than a project that you voted, Commissioner, around 1986...
Commissioner Plummer: Yes, sir, I voted for it.
Mayor Carollo: ... that would only require a hundred thousand a year guarantee in year two for
the whole island. And then in year ten, it would only guarantee a hundred thirty-six thousand
eight hundred and fifty-seven dollars ($136,857) for the whole island. And, in fact, in year one
through ten, Parrot Jungle, for only sixteen acres out of close to a hundred acres of the whole
island, is paying us considerably more than this other plan that was approved in 1986 would
have paid the City.
Commissioner Plummer: There's a big dollar... There's a big difference, Mr. Mayor, in '86
dollars and '97 dollars, big difference.
Mayor Carollo: You better believe it. '97... If I would take the present day value of the dollars
that Parrot Jungle is paying for sixteen acres in '97 and go to present day value of the dollars that
other group bought for in '86, Parrot Jungle would be heads and shoulders above of what they
are going to be paying us for only sixteen acres, versus what these other people would have been
paying us for the whole island, including the minimum guarantee. But the bottom line is that
this is the Planning Department that wanted the Sports Authority to take on some additional
lands for the benefit of the City of Miami, to bring more revenue to it. I will tell you now that
the Sports Authority does not want to take on any added...
Commissioner Plummer: Responsibility.
Mayor Carollo: ... responsibility, work. The board members of the Sports Authority, which one
is your son-in-law, are only doing this to the benefit of the City. Those members do not need
any additional headaches. They're doing it, just like when they voted to give the City around
nineteen million dollars ($19,000,000) to get us out of the deficit that we had, to help the City in
the future. If we need to cut it back to the one acre or less for the building and some three acres
for a heliport what Chalks, which is now Pan American Airlines, has, we can't take that from
them anyway, the three or four acres. So if we want to cut it back just for what is needed for the
terminal building and the heliport, that's fine. We have no problem with that. We... You know,
the Sports Authority is only taking on additional responsibilities...
Commissioner Plummer: Which they don't need.
Mayor Carollo: ... to bring the City of Miami additional revenues in the future.
Commissioner Plummer: I... Are we finished with the physical layout of the plan? Because I
had one other major problem, Mr. Mayor.
21 June 16, 1997
W. "A
Mayor Carollo: Go ahead, Commissioner. Do you want to go through any...
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, my...
Mayor Carollo: ... of the other areas of the physical layout?
Commissioner Plummer: No. Physical, no. I'm satisfied with the fact that this is a workshop,
and I will assume we'll be having a public hearing on this matter, to have the public's input. But
no, I have, as you will recall... and I forget the page.
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, if you recall, when we put this on the agenda, we said that on
the workshop, it would be open only to the Commission...
Commissioner Plummer: Correct.
Mayor Carollo: ... but that we called it as a special meeting so that if we wanted to take action, if
the public wanted to come and express themselves, they certainly could. And there's quite a few
people here that I see. In fact, I see as many people as we usually get for a normal Commission
meeting.
Commissioner Plummer: The same ones.
Mayor Carollo: No, not the same ones.
Commissioner Plummer: I have two areas of concern. One area of concern was that MSEA
would be the operating facility, or the operating management, and I was concerned, Madam City
Attorney, that they would not have any liability, whatsoever.
Ms. Linda Kearson (Assistant City Attorney): No, that's not correct, Mr. Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, then, correct me.
Ms. Kearson: You may be referring...
Commissioner Plummer: Give me the page.
Ms. Kearson: Page forty-five. If you're referring to Article Twenty-six, that pertains to no
personal liability...
Commissioner Plummer: Article...
Ms. Kearson: Article Twenty-six, on page forty-five.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I have two page numbers, one here and one here. Which page
number are you talking about?
Ms. Kearson: The typed page forty-five of the lease.
Commissioner Plummer: That's this one here?
Ms. Kearson: No. Let's see.
Mr. Jones: This one here. It's right toward the end.
22
June 16, 1997
Commissioner Plummer: This is not the one I was working with. I had the other one marked up.
No, this is not the one. It spoke to the Sports Authority would have the management control, but
that nothing that they did would in fact... No, this is not personal. I'm not talking about personal
liability. I'm talking about MSEA's responsibility and liability. Mr. Mayor, I'll find it... Huh?
Commissioner Gort: It's two point two, isn't it?
Commissioner Plummer: Page twenty-two?
Ms. Kearson: Page twenty-two?
Commissioner Plummer: Hold on.
Mayor Carollo: What page are you on there, Commissioner?
Commissioner Plummer: I'm trying to find it, Joe.
Mayor Carollo: Let me know when you find it.
Commissioner Plummer: All right. Well, go ahead and I'll... The other thing that I...
Commissioner Gort: Page nine. "The parties agree and acknowledge that none of the duties of
MSEA shall be construed to impose financial obligation, liability of any kind..." Is that what
you're addressing?
Ms. Kearson: Yeah, that's true. Right here.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. It's in there. In other words, they have no liability. My
concern is, is the fact that if they're doing the... they're the boss of the outfit, it's saying... Huh?
Ms. Kearson: Commissioner, this section refers to financial obligations and liabilities. That's...
if you're reading the same section. "The parties agree and acknowledge that none of the duties
of MSEA shall be construed to impose financial obligations and liabilities of any kind"?
Commissioner Plummer: No financial obligations "or" liabilities, not "and. " It's "or. "Or
liabilities."
Ms. Kearson: But we're still talking about finances. We're still referring to money.
Commissioner Plummer: That only refers to any of the dollars.
Ms. Kearson: That's correct.
Commissioner Plummer: There's no bonds to be issued, whatsoever?
Mr. Marquez: MSEA would have to come here for bonds.
Commissioner Plummer: MSEA would have to come here. My second point is that I was
speaking to the fact of the subleases. The one has been put to rest, at least by Mr. Stierheim,
whose word is better than his bond, and that is, that organization who was trying to edge in is
edged out. I would want in the terminology that any subleases would be for the subject of
approval by this Commission.
23 June 16, 1997
Mr. Marquez: It's already there.
Ms. Kearson: It's already there.
Commissioner Plummer: All subleases. If...
Mayor Carollo: It's already there.
Commissioner Plummer: If he subleases in his building...
i Mr. Luft: It's Our building.
i
Commissioner Plummer: ... our building. OK? They have to come here for approval.
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I have no further questions.
Commissioner Hernandez: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Carollo: Yes.
Commisisoner Hernandez: I have... besides the issues that I discussed last time as to the best use
issues of the land, and also the revenue enhancement issues, something that's really bothering
me and puzzling me about - and we discussed it briefly last time - is if we put Parrot Jungle and
the KOA Campground through the scrutiny of 29C, and this is obviously a part of our
Constitution...
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, if I may interrupt you for one minute before you go on, and let
me say this for the record. We have a legal opinion from the City Attorney that the procedures
that we're following are legal. Now, if for any reason he is wrong on the legal opinion that he
gave us, and we have to be bound by what he tells us, then that means that if what this
Commission is doing, in accordance to our Charter, is incorrect, that we cannot enter into such
agreement with the Sports Authority and the Sports Authority with the Visitors and Convention
Bureau, then in essence, what it would state is that this Commission would also be doing
something illegal in leasing the Maritime Park to the County and the County to the Heat. So if
you want to take that argument on...
Commissioner Hernandez: No. Let me tell you what...
Mayor Carollo: Be very careful, because what applies to one...
Commissioner Hernandez: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: ... is going to apply to the other.
Commissioner Hernandez: My whole question is, you're the creator of 29C, right?
Mayor Carollo: That's correct.
Commissioner Hernandez: So if it's good for two projects, why isn't it good for this project?
And I don't understand why...
Mayor Carollo: For what project?
24 June 16, 1997
r it
Commissioner Hernandez: For this project that we're talking about. I mean, why are we not...
Why do we have to take the responsibility? Why don't we let the people decide if they want this
project or not? I mean we're going... There's an election coming up in September. There's an
election coming up in November. Why don't we put it on the ballot? "Why are we
circumventing 290" is my main question.
Mayor Carollo: We're not circumventing 29C, Commissioner.
Commissioner Hernandez: How's that?
Mayor Carollo: We could be saying the same thing, that we're circumventing 29C in the way
that we're proceeding in the Maritime Park, and that's exactly what I'm saying.
Commissioner Hernandez: So then what good is 29C?
Mayor Carollo: Well, let's put... Well, 29C was done so that people that were not governmental
agencies, that they were trying to take advantage, maybe, of our government through pressures
and individual Commissioners, would not be able to do so.
Commissioner Plummer: Pan Am is not a governmental agency.
Mayor Carollo: Twenty-nine-C was done so that when you were dealing with the public sector,
everything could be put up to a clear scrutiny. But it is not meant to have such a process with
governmental agencies that were dealing with one another. Now, if you want to or would like to
put this up to a City of Miami election, which timing -wise, I don't know what it would do to Mr.
Stierheim's project, then we should do the same thing with the Maritime Park issue at the
Maritime Park, because whatever we do with one applies to the other.
Commissioner Hernandez: I have no problem with that. That's what 29C exists in our Charter
for. And to tell you the truth, you're talking about government agencies. The helicopter
company that is going to come in here, whoever it is, is not going to be a government agency.
Mr. Luft: No.
Commissioner Hernandez: Neither is the seaplanes that are flying in there. The only thing that
might be considered a government agency is going to be the Visitors Center, which I have no
problem with.
Mayor Carollo: The difference is, Commissioner, we're... what we have to put up to bid, and
you're... rightly so, and we will, would be what helicopter service would come there. That has to
go through an RFP process, which it will. The Pan American Airlines plane, I mean the City
Attorney could best explain it, but basically, they have a claim that they're grandfathered in, and
we haven't done anything to the contrary in taking any further steps on that. So, if...
Commissioner Plummer: Because we know we would lose.
Mayor Carollo: So if... Well, basically so, Commissioner, you're correct.
Mr. Luft: Mr. Mayor, if I could add to this?
Mayor Carollo: Yes.
Mr. Luft: In answer to Commissioner Hernandez, the essential difference here is that the leases
that we would take to a referendum are exclusives. They are exclusively Parrot Jungle's. The
25 June 16, 1997
operations of an airport are non-exclusive. What we're providing for here is a public facility for
which all carriers may access, whether it's a single seaplane operator or a service as significant
as Pan Am Air Bridge. What the State requires, as at any public airport facility, is the right of
those common carriers to come and provide those services, any helicopter service, any seaplane
service. With an open format like that, you cannot functionally operate an airport by having in a
referendum every time a carrier needs to come in and provide a service for whatever period of
time. Because it's not exclusive, it needs to be run through an authority, just as the airport is run,
just as the seaport is run. Our real choice here - and this is why the legal opinion said what it
said - is that we are not conveying exclusive rights. We're conveying participatory rights in a
common public facility that will all be owned by the City of Miami. So, therefore, we could not
go through referendums and competitive procedures as described in 29A and B of the Charter. It
would be impractical to try to accommodate air carriers or services on an as -come, as -needed
basis. What we must do is go through an authority, an umbrella group, so that these services can
be provided as they're needed, through that authority, and it's essentially a difference than the
exclusive lease that the Charter is set up to handle. If we wish to have this facility as a public
facility, this is really the only way we know how to do it.
Commissioner Gort: I'd like for the Law Department to state on the record the reason why the
use of the seaplane would have to maintain, and the reason why that was taken to court... I think
it was back in 1988 or...
Mr. Jones: '87.
Commissioner Gort: '87? It was taken to some court. And at that time, the people that were
here, rather than go all the way to court, they decided to make an agreement with it. I'd like to
inform the public and ourselves of that agreement. My understanding is we had to maintain that
facility. That facility has to stay there.
Mr. Luft: As a Court stipulation.
Commissioner Plummer: No... Well, let him speak to it, but I was here, so let him give you his
view, and I'll give you mine.
Mayor Carollo: Well, let's get Plummer's view first.
Commissioner Plummer: My view was that they felt that they were grandfathered in, and it was
so judged by the State that they were grandfathered in, and as such, we were unable to proceed to
tax them or to make them clean up the area, which we were trying to do, because they kept
putting in more of these rent -a -trailers and rent -a -trailers, and all of that over there, and we were
getting no revenue from it. So that was the reason why the State made that ruling. The State has
a great deal of control, and I think that was the reason that we pulled back. But he can give you
the legal reasons.
Mr. Jones: Yeah. What essentially happened was when the Commission directed us to evict
Chalks for non-payment and the like, they maintain and still maintain, I guess to this day... and
I'm not sure whether Pan Am, as a subsequent assignee, or whatever position they are... are in.
Essentially, what they maintain is that they had a possessory interest, of which the City was not
entitled to. They were exclusively entitled to the use. What the court did is enter an agreement,
a judgment of sorts, which effectively gave them a self... I mean, a court -created lease, as it
were, which was for the period... I believe it was for ten years. I think there's still two years on
that, and the order is such that at the end of those two years, if either party... if the City's position
is still maintained that it is its possessory interest, then, of course, we'd have to go back and
litigate that. So that's the long and short of that whole issue.
26 June 16, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: Even though Chalks sold out to Pan American? They still...
Mr. Jones: Well, that's a question of whether by selling out to them, whether Chalks... whether
Pan Am now stands in the shoes of Chalks. And that's one of the things that we're looking into.
Commissioner Plummer: Hopefully, they'll stay, because I think they're as much a part of this
community as anything that I can ever remember. And I think that it should be. Jack, you made
a comment which scared me. Hello? Hello? You know, I was accused of being Peck's bad boy
when I said bye-bye to the Goodyear Blimp. And I was one of the ones who said bye-bye, and
the reason I said bye-bye was they wanted to build a ten -story hangar to keep the blimp in, after
it deflated one time. And I thought to put a ten -story building on Watson Island was absolutely
ludicrous. Now, you spoke that the heliport would be building accessory items, such as hangars.
How high are the hangars?
Mr. Luft: About as high as the one that's there today, by the heliport, about twenty feet.
Commissioner Plummer: Are we limiting...
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: ... in our interlocal agreement the maximum height that they can be?
Mr. Luft: We haven't addressed height. This is an instrument for conveyance of rights at this
point. Before you would approve any lease for any operator of a service, you would have the
right to stipulate in that sublease, since MSEA, itself, isn't going to build anything, all of those
sublease tenants, of course, have to come to you and through that instrument, you would be able
to stipulate any requirement you wanted, including height.
Commissioner Plummer: And what control is built into the interlocal agreement for this City
Commission to have approval or rejection on the architecture and other types of buildings that
would be put on that property?
Mr. Luft: Because you have absolute right to control all terms of the subleases, and they must be
approved by you, you can write anything you want into any sublease.
Commissioner Plummer: Well it's not here now. That's the reason I'm asking.
Mr. Luft: In this document, it says that you have the approval of all subleases.
Commissioner Plummer: And "subleases" means the actually construction?
Mr. Luft: It means the Visitors Bureau Office, it means actual construction, all... Just like Parrot
Jungle spells out all the height and everything that they can do.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me put it in simple terms. If Merrett comes in with a proposal for
a building, and I don't like the looks - I, the City Commission - don't like the looks of that
building, can we reject it?
Mr. Luft: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you.
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor, to answer the question you asked earlier about the helicopters out there,
presently, the only operator out there is Dade Helicopter, which was by virtue of a Commission
27 June 16, 1997
0
action in May of 1995, and as part of that approval, we're required to give ninety -day notice for
them to vacate.
Mayor Carollo: Could that be challenged, that we give them ninety days in order for them to
vacate?
Mr. Jones: You say could it be challenged?
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, by them.
Mr. Jones: Yeah. Yeah. I mean... Yeah. I mean, everything is subject to challenge, but...
Commissioner Plummer: That's how our lawyers make a living.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: Well, then I don't mean by frivolous challenge. I'm saying by something solid.
Mr. Jones: I don't think so. I don't think there would be a successful challenge, no.
Commissioner Plummer: I think you need to know, also, if there is revenue being produced, and
if so, how much. Or are they in arrears? Because that would predicate my vote. If they're in
arrears and they're not up to date... As you know, I'm trying to get every contract has to have a
three months payment in advance, any new contracts, so we don't have to chase after people to
collect our money.
Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Carollo: Yes.
Commissioner Gort: My understanding when that was in front of us, it was a contract where
they would have to pay retroactive some of the money that they owed at that time.
Commissioner Plummer: That was part of it, as I recall.
Commissioner Gort: Plus the payments that they're supposed to have been making from there
on.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I think it broke down...
Commissioner Gort: And if they didn't commit... If they didn't comply with their commitment,
automatically, we were going to put them out.
Commissioner Plummer: I think that you'll find, also, that there was a discrepancy in the hours.
In other words, we were supposed to get, as I recall, ten hours a month free, as part of the
contract. whether we use it for aerial photography, whether we used it for visiting dignataries or
whatever the use was. And there was a contention, as I recall, Mr. City Attorney, that there was
a big discrepancy in the amount of hours, which they contended they owed us nothing and we
contended they owed us money. So it was whether the hours were cummulative or whether it
was ten a month and it was wiped clean, ten a month, wiped clean, so that was... but that, I think
we need to know.
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Gort, any additional information that you need or statements you
need to make?
28 June 16, 1997
Commissioner Gort: Most of my questions have been answered.
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Regalado.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Can we today, Mr. City Attorney, vote on one of the parts of the plan
and only deciding... for instance, the building, the way to bring back some plans to see if we
want to build that building in one acre of the plan?
Commissioner Plummer: Joe, I'd like to give you eighteen acres to MSEA.
Mayor Carollo: It's up to the Commission.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, excuse me, if I may, Mr. Regalado? I would like to vote today,
my vote, on the eighteen acres, of giving it to MSEA. But, of course, limited to what... We
would reserve the right of what goes in there.
Commissioner Gort: Well, that...
Mayor Carollo: And for the record, I'd like to state that I, as one vote, am more than willing to
cut that down to the facilities of only the acre or less for the building and the service for the
planes and the helicopters. MSEA does not need to take on all this additional responsibility in
acres. It would only do so to the benefit of the City, like MSEA's doing in this project here
today. So I, you know, want to make it as clear as I can that if the majority of the
Commissioners want to cut that down to the bare bone in acres, I have no problems on it,
because what I'm not going to let happen is for a demagogue that's out there running for who
knows what in Shangrila to then try to use this as an excuse to come up with more lies, with
more stories... You know, this City has to go forward and progess. The demagogery type of
campaigns have to stop. Otherwise, we are not going to be able to get off the ground with one
single project. My God, if we're going through all of this for one small project that is of
tremendous benefits to the City of Miami, can you imagine what we would go through for some
of the other major projects that we have planned for the City, where we have some... close to one
thousand acres of prime land that this City's going to develop?
Commissioner Plummer: Do we want to hear from the public, Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Carollo: If we're done with the first part of this meeting that Jack had made his
presentation on, if the Commission has no further statements to make or questions to ask, we
could open it up to the public. But before we do that, I'd like to give the opportunity to the
Visitors and Conventions Bureau, if they would like to make any further statements or add
anything to this debate.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, if I may, while he's walking up. I rode over and spent a
great deal of time Saturday on the island. Mr. Manager, I don't want to be a bad guy, but I guess
I got to be. In the area over there where the boats are, it is a junkyard. I mean it's an absolute
junkyard. It's a collection of God only knows what. Now, it was my understanding that the
people over there were going to correct the problems. And I'm not talking about electrical
problems, I'm not talking about water problems, I'm talking about the collection of junk. And
they've got telephone poles across the street where you can only travel so much and so far. I
don't know who put those telephone poles out there. They got gates out there, and what I'm just
saying is that I think we need to insist that that area be cleaned up.
29 June 16, 1997
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Christina Abrams (Director, Public Facilities):
recommendation for the Manager.
We'll look at it today and prepare a
Vice Mayor Regalado: Well, if I may, Christina. If I may, since we're talking on that issue. I
recently sent a memo to Christina regarding the situation there. The City did put up a fence,
although there are some problems still with the fence, and we are trying to - the City - trying to
cut grass over there and trying to have that area better, although there have been some problems.
And this is why I asked Ms. Abrams to defer for at least one month the rates for those people,
because they have suffered economic problems because of the whole environment. And I
thought that was only just, if we deferred one month the rates for the rent that they pay. And she
told me that it has to be a direction from the Commission. So although this could be a pocket
item, I'm just bringing it up, since J.L. brought it up, the situation in Watson Island.
Commissioner Plummer: And I have no opposition to the delay of the month. The junkyard, I
have a problem with. And that can be...
Vice Mayor Regalado: I do, and everybody does.
Commissioner Plummer: That can be cleaned up in a matter of a couple of days.
Vice Mayor Regalado: And, you know, you cannot go through Watson Island, because there are
poles in the roads. I don't know.
Commissioner Plummer: Who put the telephone poles out there?
Ms. Abrams: Are you referring to the telephone poles in the parking lot, itself'?
Commissioner Plummer: On the road.
Vice Mayor Regalado: No, no, the one that you go past the jets and the boats to the fence.
Ms. Abrams: I'm not familiar with it, but we'll look at it.
Vice Mayor Regalado: It's there. You can't go through.
Commissioner Plummer: You'll see them. You can't miss them.
Ms. Abrams: OK. So do we take a vote?
Vice Mayor Regalado: Well, its... Mr. Mayor, if the Commission agrees, can we defer for one
month the rates?
Commissioner Plummer: At the end of the meeting.
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, again, let's bring that at the end.
Commissioner Plummer: Sure.
Vice Mayor Regalado: No, I have no problem. I just...
Mayor Carollo: You know, let's get done with this discussion, and then anything else having to
do with Watson Island, let's bring it up at the end.
Vice Mayor Regalado: All right.
30
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June 16, 1997
04
Mayor Carollo: Merrett?
Mr. Stierheim: I really don't have anything to add, Mr. Mayor. I think I've given you all
memos and reports and I... Well, there have been many concerns expressed by members of the
Commission. I have not really sensed an opposition from anyone to the Visitors Center
Complex. Obviously, we've worked closely with Jack, and the professional staff, and the DOT,
and the aviation people, because one of the questions they had was the relationship of the
Visitors Center to the air industry, and we more than satisfied them that there was tremendous
synergy. I think the one acre or less is an accurate footprint which would include the parking.
My concerns, J.L., going back to cost, are that without the other facilities, then you do not have
the DOT money to support infrastructure, and then I need to get some engineering estimates on
the road, because we want to bring the public into that Visitors Center... I mean tour buses. So
we need an area for public access. I'm sure that that can be worked out logistically.
Commissioner Plummer: What did the City just do... We just passed something recently on
water and sewer for the Watson Island.
Mr. Luft: Right. That's to extend the new sewer lines and improve...
Commissioner Plummer: That's already done.
Mr. Luft: ... water service and fire service.
Commissioner Plummer: That's already done.
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: So that's not an item.
Mr. Stierheim: Well... I mean you got to run it wherever it is to the building.
Mr. Luft: But that's... Commissioner, that's only the trunk lines. The feeder lines that would go
to the individual users still have to be built.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Merrett, if I may.
Mr. Stierheim: Yes.
Vice Mayor Regalado: The Visitors Center will be, of course, in the City of Miami. And the
City of Miami... When you go to a travel agent in Lima or Costa Rica, and you're coming to
South Florida, they will tell you, well if you go to Disney World and you're going be in Miami
for several days, you go to South Beach and Coconut Grove, Bayside. That's what they would
tell you. So many of... and the zoo, of course. Many of the activities that one tourist will have
are located in the City of Miami.
Mr. Stierheim: Yes, sir.
Vice Mayor Regalado: My question is, would it be possible, although you represent Dade
County and all the municipalities in Dade County, to have in your lobby, in your Visitors Center
an area where you can get information about Miami, say detailed information about what you
may find in Bayside, or what you may find in Coconut Grove, or Little Havana, or even in Little
Haiti? Part of the City of Miami that could be... could appeal to the tourists seeking information.
31 June 16, 1997
;Jkl-
W
Mr. Stierheim: Well, you... The answer is yes. Obviously, all those features, we would want to
present for public consumption, access. We're talking about high tech., to the extent that we
can. Your question fairly... I think is a bit parochial and I respect that, and I don't blame you.
But we are the Bureau for the entire County. So, I mean, we would not be ignoring other areas.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Of course.
Mr. Stierheim: But the answer to your question is yes. Now, whether or not it was on one wall,
or would it be in one location, I think part of that would be the design. But I can assure you that
if this project goes forward, our intention is to really have a world class facility with high tech. I
have had both Mr. Talbert and David Whittaker of my staff... I sent them to seven different cities
around the United States to inspect those Visitors Centers, to pick up ideas, and we're doing
some preliminary floor plans now. So I think if we did move forward on this, I believe your
concerns would be fairly addressed and responded to, yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Stierheim...
Commissioner Gort: Merrett, for the record, I would like for you to state, and I think you stated
last time you were here, since when you've been dealing in trying to do this project. I think it's
important.
Mr. Stierheim: Well, it's certainly been discussed for at least two years. I mean Cesar and I
started talking about it at least two, maybe even two and half years ago. It's always bothered me
that we... We're in beautiful facilities and... but we're spending a lot of money.
Commissioner Plummer: Six hundred thousand a year.
Mr. Stierheim: And we need more advertising and marketing money. And I felt that a project
like this, combining it with a Visitors Center, the observation deck, it's a strategic location, a
great public place, that we could generate more dollars. And I can assure you, whatever we do
not pay in rent, after we pay the capital cost of the building and allow for maintenance and
operation, a hundred percent of those dollars are going to go into advertising and promoting this
destination. So, I mean that's jobs and that's our economy. I sent you, under separate cover...
Commissioner Plummer: For the two and half million dollars they're putting up, over forty-five
years, if they were paying us the same rent, it would be two hundred and seventy million.
Mr. Stierheim: ... the action of the Commission about a year ago where.... Now, there's two
new faces on the Commission. The Commission...
Mayor Carollo: Over a year ago, actually.
Mr. Stierheim: The Commission... Yes, it was April, I believe, about fifteen months, fourteen or
so. The Commission unanimously approved it, sent it to MSEA, and then it was unanimously
approved at MSEA. And so, I mean, it's been...
Commissioner Plummer: They're paying six hundred thousand a year times forty-five
Mayor Carollo: That's correct. And if I could read into the record, Merrett, the resolution that
was approved by this Commission back in April 25, 1996. It's a resolution authorizing and
directing the City Manager to negotiate an interlocal agreement between the City of Miami and
the Miami Sports and Exhibition Authority, MSEA, an agent, instrumentality of the City of
Miami, conveying a long-term interest in a parcel of land located on Watson Island for the
purpose of developing a Regional Visitors Center and associated services; further directing the
32 June 16, 1997
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City Manager to present a negotiated interlocal agreement to the City Commission for review
and approval prior to its execution. This is in April 25, 1996, and this resolution is signed by the
Mayor at the time, Stephen Clark, and it was unanimously approved by the City Commission.
Then on April the 30, 1996, five days later, back when the Sports Authority had a thirteen -
member board, it was unanimously approved by all thirteen members. In fact, the attorney at the
time for the Sports Authority, Mr. Joe Portuondo, was very much in favor of it at the time.
Likewise, a former candidate that was running for Mayor of Dade County at that time, also
expressed approval of it. So...
Mr. Stierheim: Actually, we were really beginning to move when things happened last fall, and
then when I was sitting over there in that seat, everything came to a standstill by specific design,
because I never discussed it with anyone in this City.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me get...
Mayor Carollo: That's correct.
Mr. Stierheim: For two months.
Mayor Carollo: That's the reason that this was stopped and it came to a standstill.
Commissioner Plummer: Don't move.
Commissioner Gort: Also, my understanding when it was introduced to myself, it was in lieu...
the City made payments or contributions to the Bureau of about a hundred thousand, a hundred
twenty thousand dollars a year.
Mr. Stierheim: A hundred thousand.
Commissioner Plummer: A hundred thousand a year.
Commissioner Gort: A hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) a year. In lieu of that payment, we
were going to have this agreement, we're going to have...
Mr. Stierheim: That was... The original discussions with Cesar was that in lieu of the hundred
thousand, the Bureau (sic) would continue to be a signatory and a partner to the Bureau, and then
we would turn around, if we did simultaneous checks, then we would pay you a hundred
thousand dollar land lease, in lieu of the hundred thousand dollars, which was the membership.
That's changed a little bit now in the new dicussions. But keep in mind, the interlocal... the sub -
agreement that this would authorize between the Bureau and MSEA will come back to this
Commission for your review. I mean, I believe that's already stipulated in the agreement. So
you're going to see whatever the negotiated settlement is in that issue.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me get parochial on you. The interlocal hundred thousand a year
is gone if this is passed. Hello?
Mr. Stierheim: Hello. Are you negotiating the agreement now?
Commissioner Plummer: I'm asking the question. I want it on the record.
Mr. Stierheim: As long as we can negotiate a successful agreement, the answer to your question
is yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, the negotiated agreement is it's over.
33 June 16, 1997
Mr. Stierheim: But, whatever the... hold it, my attorney is raising her hand over there.
Commissioner Plummer: It's over. Number two: Mr. Regalado, let's get parochial. OK?
Stierheim, you're paying six hundred thousand dollars ($600,000) of rent a year, correct?
Mayor Carollo: By the way, Merrett, the rent that you're paying now under the lease that you
have in Brickell...
Mr. Stierheim: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: ... that was the lease that was entered into by a previous...
Mr. Stierheim: George Kirkland.
Mayor Carollo: ... director before you came...
Mr. Stierheim: He was very clever, too. He got two years free rent, and then he left. And then I
started paying the rent checks.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me.
i Mayor Carollo: Well, I figure we could put that in the record.
I
Mr. Stierheim: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: You are paying six hundred thousand dollars a year rent.
Mr. Stierheim: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: So in forty-five years, it's the equivalent of twenty-seven million
dollars ($27,000,000). Now what I want to know... Mr. Regalado, let's get parochial. How
much are you going to do to sponsor the City of Miami, who is giving you the twenty-seven
million dollars, as opposed to Countywide?
Mr. Stierheim: This sounds like deja vous. When I had the old Water and Sewer Authority,
when he broke my arm to get twenty percent of the bed tax, when I wore another hat... I want to
say this to you. We are not a...
Mayor Carollo: Were you here around...
Mr. Stierheim: Are you kidding?
Mayor Carollo: ... back when that was given to the County?
Commissioner Plummer: I just want...
Mayor Carollo: Well, then, you're someone I need to talk to about that.
Commissioner Plummer: No, you were not here.
Mr. Stierheim: That still... That still rolled in about a million seven every year to you.
Commissioner Plummer: No, sir, you were no.t here...
34 June 16, 1997
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Mr. Stierheim: I was County Manager.
Commissioner Plummer: ... when we gave the water and sewer to the County.
Mr. Stierheim: No, no, no, but I was County Manager...
Commissioner Plummer: Ah, you were the one trying to hold us up. OK?
Mr. Stierheim: Well, there's two sides to that story.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Stierheim, just for the record, so that Bern Levin does not have a
heart attack. It would be in the interlocal agreement, Mr. City Attorney, that nothing that you do
in your facility will be in competition with the Parrot Jungle.
Mr. Stierheim: No. You're going to have a Visitors Center and there are going to be... There
may be local...
Commissioner Plummer: I think Mr. Levin is concerned about a restaurant, an amphitheater...
Mr. Stierheim: I have no...
Commissioner Plummer: ... or anything of that kind of nature...
Mr. Stierheim: No.
Commissioner Plummer: ... that it would not be in that facility.
Mr. Stierheim: No.
Mayor Carollo: No, no, no, wait, wait, wait.
Mr. Stierheim: No restaurant, no amphitheater, no.
Mayor Carollo: In the building that we're going to have there, there's nothing such as that going
to be in that building.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, that's what I just wanted to make sure, that's all.
Mayor Carollo: Now, this Commission can certainly have leeway, for the... in the future, in
those thirty or so acres we have left there, if we want to include restaurants, hotels, mega...
Commissioner Plummer: This Commission still operates on Father, Son and the Holy Ghost.
Three votes make it law.
Mayor Carollo: Well, let's get that out, because the City of Miami has a tremendous potential
for a big chunk of recurring revenue out of that side of the island.
Commissioner Plummer: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Mayor Carollo: And I want to make Parrot Jungle as successful as it can be, but we don't want
to give any monopoly rights to the whole island.
Commissioner Plummer: Absolutely.
35
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June 16, 1997
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Commissioner Hernandez: Merrett, the building itself, the center, you said last time, would pay
property taxes to the City?
Mr. Stierheim: The agreement now says that we will pay not less than what the...
Commissioner Plummer: Equivalent.
Mr. Stierheim: ... County Tax Assessor determines would be the taxes. I really have to
emphasize, though, going back to your point on the forty-five million, there are two reasons for
doing this. Number one, location, location, location, for the Visitors Center.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Mr. Stierheim: Which is prime.
Mayor Carollo: That we're going to benefit the most from.
Mr. Stierheim: And two, every dollar that we don't have to spend past the capital cost, operation
and maintenance of that facility will go into advertising, which generates the economy of this
community.
Commissioner Plummer: Twenty-seven million dollars ($27,000,000) for the City.
Mr. Stierheim: None of it's going in my pocket or any employee's. A hundred percent of it is
going to go into advertising.
Vice Mayor Regalado: So by getting parochial, how much of your advertising... And I know, I
understand marketing, Merrett, and you know I do.
Mr. Stierheim: Right.
Vice Mayor Regalado: So I understand that you have to go out of Miami and throughout the
United States and sell South Florida... I mean sell Dade County, but among the things that you
will be selling will be parts of the City of Miami.
Mr. Stierheim: Without question.
Mayor Carollo: That's obvious.
Vice Mayor Regalado: That's obvious. But my...
Mayor Carollo: There is no Miami without the City of Miami, Commissioner.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Well that's true, but I'm going... I'm trying to go farther. I'm trying to
use your expertise, Merrett, and your people, and your resources. We are not able to, for
instance, go to any European country, and as part of the deal, the whole deal, in South Florida or
Dade County, show some part, in a pamphlet or in the brochure, that there is a Little Haiti in
Miami, that there is a Latin Quarter, that there is a Little Havana, that there are tobacco factories
that you can visit. I know that you say, well you go to Coconut Grove, you go to Bayside and,
you know, you go to South Beach and MetroZoo. I guess that's what you sell... even maybe
Hialeah Race Track. That would be your major points of marketing. But what I'm saying is to
get from you your expertise in terms of promoting areas of the City of Miami that might not
appeal to all of the visitors that will be coming to South Florida, but it may appeal to some.
36 June 16, 1997
A,.
Mr. Stierheim: No, I think we're very sensitive to your concern, and I'm happy to tell you that
we have now budgeted fifty thousand... fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) for a multi -cultural
guide, which will target exactly the kind of areas that you're talking about, not only in terms of
heritage, cultural opportunities, restaurants, night life, festivals and so forth, and the Bureau is
committed to that. I also want to say that one of our most steadfast public officials who sits on
the board, votes on the board and participates with the Bureau is Commissioner Gort. He is your
representative on the board of the Bureau and.., you know, so that you do have a conduit there,
directly to us. Of course, all of you can directly access me. But I think you will see in that
cultural guide a very positive response to your concern.
i Commissioner Plummer: City Attorney, would you explain to me on page 37... I'm talking
about liability insurance and liquor liability. Is Merrett going to open a lounge? Why did we
! definitely address liquor liability?
i
Mr. Jones: What page is that, Commissioner?
i
i Commissioner Plummer: My thing is page 37 and page 32.
Mayor Carollo: Thirty-two?
1
Commissioner Plummer: Under property to be insured... This is Article Fifteen, under Section
Fifteen Point One. It speaks to general liability insurance - I understand - and liquor liability
iinsurance.
Mr. Luft: Commissioner...
Mr. Stierheim: There will be no liquor licenses in our building.
Mr. Luft: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: Well that's... Why is it here? I'm asking why.
Mr. Luft: Well, Commissioner, because outside of the airport boundary, you may want to... As I
said earlier, anything you sublease outside the airport boundary, all those revenues come back to
the City. So you may want to put a small food service facility.
Commissioner Plummer: But we would put that on the individuals we sublease to, not onto
these people.
Mr. Luft: That's correct. That's correct. But that's the MSEA thing. That's not them. OK?
It's the master lease. That's how we cover all these eventualities, so if there was something else
to come in there.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. I'm just asking the question.
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Hernandez: Merrett.
Mr. Stierheim: Commissioner.
Commissioner Hernandez: How many square feet do you currently have in your offices?
37 June 16, 1997
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Mr. Stierheim: Twenty-two thousand.
Commissioner Hernandez: Twenty-two thousand?
Mr. Stierheim: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Hernandez: What's the taxes on a thirty thousand square foot building,
oceanfront property? Actual...
Mr. Luft: It would depend on the zoning and the location and...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, it's easy to figure, six hundred thousand times twelve. Twelve,
six... it's around seventy... seventy-two thousand a year, correct?
Mr. Stierheim: I don't know how you're figuring that. The building may cost two and a half
million.
Commissioner Plummer: He's asking... He's trying to equate the taxes.
Mr. Stierheim: Well, take a two and half million dollar...
Commissioner Plummer: The taxes would be thirty-two thousand a million. So twelve times six
hundred thousand is ten percent of what the building costs.
Mayor Carollo: Well, it's hard to figure it out, depending on what the County Assessor wants to
do it by. If he wants to do it under the old system, like he figured the Maritime Park was worth,
or is he going to do it under the new system, that...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, he's ultra conservative.
Mayor Carollo: ... they don't want to give it the present day value.
Commissioner Plummer: He's ultra conservative.
Mr. Stierheim: You know, I would presume, also, that, you know, everyone is being treated
somewhat uniformly here.
Commissioner Plummer: Seven million two.
Mr. Stierheim: That we will not wind up being the only public building that will be paying...
making payment in lieu of taxes. If we're the only one, then I might have a different opinion
about this.
(INAUDIBLE COMMENT NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Commissioner Plummer: They won't be paying taxes, no. They won't be paying the ad
valorem. Seven point two...
Mayor Carollo: You're making a very good point. That's why we have to proceed in the
uniform way.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me tell you, though, when you answer the question, if you're
paying six hundred thousand, that's seven point two a year. Correct? No, that's six hundred
thousand a year you're paying?
38 June 16, 1997
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Mayor Carollo: Yeah, six hundred a year.
Commissioner Plummer: A year. Oh. OK.
Mr. Stierheim: You mean for our lease payment, now? Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. So if you were to put... apply taxes to that, you'd probably be
paying in the neighborhood of twenty-five thousand.
Mr. Stierheim: Well, I figured ten mills at three million, if the building is three million. I don't
know what it'll be. But that would he thirty thousand.
Commissioner Plummer: It's thirty-two thousand a million, so it's easy to figure from there.
Mayor Carollo: Well whatever it is, it will be. I mean, we don't have no control over that.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, Mr. Mayor, there is a policy of this Commission, I think - Mr.
City Attorney? - that any time that we gave or lease any governmental property to another
governmental agency, they had to pay the equivalent of ad valorem taxation to the City.
Mr. Jones: It's in the Charter.
Commissioner Plummer: Huh?
Mr. Jones: It's in the Charter.
Commissioner Plummer: It's in the Charter. So that's got to be considered.
Mr. Luft: It's also in this agreement.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. Well, I mean, they know that?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: I have only one other question. There's no question in my mind that if
the heliport, which I'm opposed to, goes in, that there's going to have to be somewhat of a fire
station over there. I mean that goes without saying, that that's the safety of the thing.
Mr. Luft: They will have to have fire equipment, fire protection services or...
Commissioner Plummer: And where will that be housed? Is that going to be in an additional
hangar?
Mr. Luft: That would be part of the operational facilities that are built for that and...
Commissioner Plummer: Is that being provided by the City of Miami, as we're demanding in
Maritime Park? Are they going to provide it themselves, or is the County going to provide it, as
they do at the International Airport?
Mr. Luft: The equipment... The material to provide the service, we would pass on to the
helicopter... or as with the seaplanes. Whoever was building the facilities there would have to
build in this FAA/FDOT mandated fire equipment.
39 June 16, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: "Who would provide it?" is what I'm asking.
Mayor Carollo: The City of Miami, of course. The City.
Mr. Luft: They're paying for the equipment. The City would take a blanket fee that we would
assume proportionate to the value of that facility, as we would any commercial facility in the
City, and assume a municipal services fee.
Commissioner Plummer: So what you're saying... Well, they're going to provide it, but are they
going to provide in a structure, on site, or are they going to provide it from the Maritime Park, or
is the County going to build a new one?
Mr. Luft: No. They're going to have to provide on site. What they're doing...
Commissioner Plummer: That's my question. Who is... Is the City of Miami going to station
the equipment necessary next to the heliport to provide the safety for that heliport, or are they
going to get it from some other source? That's all I'm asking.
Mr. Luft: They're going to get it from their own source. They're going to pay for it, and fifty
percent of the money from FDOT. So the equipment that goes on site to provide those
emergency services would be part of the cost of building the airport.
Commissioner Plummer: But it's not being provided by the City of Miami?
Mr. Luft: No, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, see that's the point I'm making.
Mr. Luft: But now we're getting... but we're getting the fees.
Mayor Carollo: And the fees that are coming from the airport facility will go for the upkeep of
that equipment, also.
Mr. Luft: Right. There's a certain level of emergency, rescue service and things that...
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but, Joe, that's not my point. My point is, the City would be on
site.
Mayor Carollo: Oh, yeah, that's... well...
Mr. Luft: Right. If...
Commissioner Plummer: That's got to be. We're demanding that now in the Maritime Park...
Mayor Carollo: Oh, that's got to be. I mean, it's going to be full City of Miami police and fire
services provided in every square inch of that property.
Mr. Luft: Correct.
Commissioner Plummer: Absolutely.
Vice Mayor Regalado: But it's still not clear. Who's going to pay for this structure?
40 June 16, 1997
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Mayor Carollo: They are. We are not.
Mr. Luft: The cost of building the facilities will be the providers of the services, plus FDOT.
The annual fee that's paid for the continuation of those services each year, the actual soft
services, comes to us.
Mayor Carollo: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: What is the... Have you estimated what a provider of the award of the
RFP would be making in revenue?
Mr. Luft: It would depend entirely on how much facility you allowed in their lease.
Commissioner Plummer: Based on your conservative figures, there.
Mr. Luft: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: How much would they be bringing in a year.,. You know, nobody's
going to go in there and be a provider that's not going to be making a living out of it.
Mr. Luft: Correct.
Commissioner Plummer: It's not a charitable operation. Now, what kind of monies would they
be making, as the provider, for revenue to themselves that they're not going to be providing back
to the City of Miami, and who controls what are their expenses? I couldn't see that if I had to.
Mr. Luft: All we've estimated, sir, are the revenues that would come out of the facility, the rents
they pay, the fees they pay. I have not projected what Pan Am Air Bridge would make from
their international operations off of that base. I simply don't know.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, obviously, Pan Am, we can't handle, because they are unto
themselves.
Mr. Luft: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: But you're talking about revenues in the year 2017, if I'm reading that
distance of seven hundred twenty-five thousand... seven hundred and twenty-five thousand seven
hundred and twelve dollars ($725,712), which they're not going to be giving any of that revenue
to the City.
Mr. Luft: Yes. Out of that revenue comes the fees for services to the City.
Commissioner Plummer: Jack, if we put...
Mr. Luft: It's a hundred thousand plus dollars, could be easily two hundred thousand by then.
Commissioner Plummer: If we put anything in there...
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: ... they're going to pay fees to the City of Miami.
Mr. Luft: Yes.
41 June 16, 1997
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x
1
S
1r !
Commissioner Plummer: Under the new State statute, any governmental agency property that is
loaned - excuse me - leased to a profit -making corporation, by State of Florida Statutes, now has
to be taxed.
Mr. Luft: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: So whether it's a heliport or a restaurant, or whatever else that might
be put in there, if it's a profit -making corporation, have to pay ad valorem taxation. Not just to
the City, they got to pay it to the County, the School Board and the City, because that's State
statute now, based on the Orlando Airport, and that was the test case.
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Mayor Carollo: Are we ready to open it up to the public part? OK. Mr. Brennan?
Mr. John Brennan: I hate to be the first public, but I want to make a small point. This issue has
not been before the Waterfront Advisory Board. I was at the meeting Tuesday last, there was
seven of us there, and because I got such a bad memory, I asked each of the members if they had
seen this. If it weren't for Miami Today, I wouldn't have known it was going to be on the
agenda at all. Did I hear somebody say that this whole operation was going to be a hundred
thousand dollars ($100,000) to the City? Was that...
Mr. Luft: That's the fee paid by the Visitors Bureau.
Mr. Brennan: Not counting fees and stuff like that, which you would get anyway, but was this
the net that you're going to get or the rent you are going to get for the property? Is that...
Mayor Carollo: That's beyond some five million dollars ($5,000,000) or so that's going to be
spent in building that property.
Mr. Brennan: Yeah, but will that... How much of that will come to the City to pay off? I'm the
taxpayer, and I'm just curious how it will lighten my load.
Mayor Carollo: Can you explain that, Jack? I assure you, it's going to be more than all the
sailing clubs that we've given marinas to and properties to.
Mr. Brennan: Well, yeah, that, too. But the point... part of the point is that you could get a
hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) if you put in the fifty-two slips and sold fuel at the Dinner
Key Boatyard. You get a hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) a year net, without any trouble at
all. And I would hope that this would provide more to the taxpayer than that.
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Mr. Brennan: But anyway, my point was only that we had not seen this at the Waterfront Board.
Mr. Luft: Let me point out that I personally presented the aviation plan, the TCI International
Plan for the heliport/seaplane base to the Waterfront Board. This was two years ago. We have
presented the Watson Island plan to you a number of times. We have always talked about the
substance of what we're trying to do here in the provision of these services. What this is here
today is an instrument, a mechanism for making it happen. But nothing here changes what the
plans were that you saw over the years that are evolving. What will have to happen, however, is
when we get to the subleases, if we do get to that point, and we start getting physical designs of
facilities, then we would come back to you with that. This is just a mechanism here. But you
have seen the plans.
42 June 16, 1997
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• F:�.'rir':Y
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Mr. Brennan: All right. Jack is easy to agree with. But I would like for the Waterfront Board...
so that we can provide at least some minor input in some of these things. Because I've seen the
master plan, doesn't make me a wizard on what instruments are. And if you want us to help,
give us the information that it takes to make it help, make the help work. Thank you.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you for your input, John. Anybody else who would like to address the
Commission?
Mr. Martin Tritt: My name is Martin Tritt...
Mayor Carollo: Mr. Manager... I'm sorry, if you could hold on for a second. Mr. Manager?
Mr. Marquez: Yes, Mr. Mayor. I just want to... Again, we've talked about the economic return
here. First of all, the hundred thousand dollar ($100,000) number that's been battered about was
the economic return just from the aviation center piece of this facility. Any subleases in the
future that we enter into, after approval by the City Commission here, will have separate returns
coming to the City. You also have the five million dollar ($5,000,000) infrastructure
contribution. Again, it's a City owned facility that's being built with no City money into the
structure. That, coupled with the economic benefit of having these passengers go through here,
of having the seaplanes land in the City of Miami, being the hub for South Florida- not just
Broward, not just Dade, but the entire South Florida area helicopters - these are all economic
benefits that have to be factored into your analysis of this.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, try to take and cash those in at the grocery store. You'll have a
problem.
Mayor Carollo: Go ahead sir, I'm sorry.
Mr. Tritt: My name is Martin Tritt. I live at 5261 La Gorce Drive, Miami Beach. October will
be nineteen years that I've been running the bait shop on Watson Island. In all those nineteen
years, nobody from staff, nobody from the Commission has ever come and asked me what I
think ought to be on Watson Island, even though I look at it every day of the year. There
definitely should be helicopter facilities that are organized on Watson Island. Anybody that has
traveled the Expressways knows that rush hour does not stop anymore in Miami. And very
shortly, our highways will be useless. So for people who are important people, business people
who can afford it, there definitely needs to be a network of helicopters in Miami.
Commissioner Plummer: Agreed.
Mr. Tritt: There also should be a pad at the Port of Miami, one in North Miami, one in South
Miami, possibly at the Convention Hall in Miami Beach, because that's the only way important
people are going to be able to travel in this town, with the highways crowded like they are. You
have an opportunity to do one of the greatest things for tourism that anybody could possibly have
done, if it's done right. And I, unlike Mr. Plummer, believe that it wouldn't be too bad to have a
ten -story building with an observation tower on top, and an informational sign that would give
information to all these people that come in on the cruise ships who never set foot in Dade
County, except to go to the Port and away from the Port.
Commissioner Plummer: Has he paid his rent. Is he current? Huh?
(INAUDIBLE COMMENT NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Mr. Tritt: And if the City does things in the right way, and provides them with transportation,
many of the visitors on the cruise ships can get...
43 June 16, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: I'd like to know.
Mr. Tritt: ... there as early as eight o'clock in the morning. They check into the cruise ship, and
they stay right there until seven or eight o'clock at night, doing absolutely nothing and spending
no money in Miami. So it this thing is done right, they could put a smaller circumference
building, possibly a round building that would be very beautiful with an informational sign
telling all these millions of people who come through Miami in cruise ships exactly what's going
on here. If they provided some free transportation to bring them to the Visitors Center, to bring
them to the Parrot Jungle or the Japanese Gardens, even if it was for a mini -tour, just to whet
their appetite to do things in Miami, I think it would be a great idea. And I think that we should
stop putting cogs in the process here, because you're liable to lose it, like you've lost many other
things that I think were important to the City of Miami. I think I have a perfect right to speak to
this, because I was born in Miami at Victoria Hospital.
Commissioner Plummer: So was I.
Mr. Tritt: I moved to the Beach when I was three years old.
Commissioner Plummer: I didn't.
Mr. Tritt: And I've observed a whole lot of politicians crapping up the whole City. So I think
that this project should go on and that you should preserve the park at Watson Island, because
it's one of the most used parks. The poor people, the people who can't afford five dollars ($5)
for parking at Bayside, come to Watson Island to just cool it, and maybe have a picnic, watch the
cruise ships go out, watch the seaplanes take off, the helicopters, and this project, if it's done
properly, with the...
Commissioner Plummer: Smoke the Coke.
Mr. Tritt: First of all, if you need to have buildings raised, all of the... all of the hangar facilities
could be underneath the building. I don't know what the safety regulations are for that, but they
could definitely make it where you don't block from view. When I was a kid, you could walk...
go down Biscayne Boulevard, and nobody built any mountains in Bicentennial Park. You could
see the bay. Now you can't see the bay. All the money that's been spent on Bicentennial Park
has made it worse, rather than better. The rock garden that used to be in Bayfront Park was one
of the highlights of the City, and it's gone. And these type of things could be brought back.
Also, a great place to recreate, Pier 5 for the fishermen, and get rid of your worries about where
the fishermen are going to go, is create another Pier 5 under the bridge, air-conditioned and play
up the fish selling ability of this City and the fishing facilities. Thank you.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you for your input.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, is this gentleman current in his rent?
Mr. Tritt: Yes I am, and I'm paying almost as much as the Outboard Club is going to pay...
Commissioner Plummer: Good. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Tritt: Thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) leeway.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you were only forty-six thousand in debt, so I'm just asking if
you paid.
44 June 16, 1997
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Mr. Tritt: No, I'm paying it off.
Commissioner Plummer: You're current.
Mr. Tritt: I'm also paying...
Mayor Carollo: Gentlemen, gentlemen, please, please. We appreciate your input. If they're not,
then the Administration knows what they need to do. Thank you. Go ahead, sir, your name and
address.
Mr. Frank Smith: Frank Smith, 1040 MacArthur Causeway, Miami, Florida. I'm one of the
fishermen at Watson Island.
Commissioner Plummer: You live there?
Mr. Smith: And they were supposed to help...
Commissioner Plummer: He lives there?
Mr. Smith: First of all, let me address Mr. Plummer. I'm part of the junkyard thing out there.
The reason for that is that I have to change my coolers over. They burned out. The men are out
there now with the electric. All they're changing is the outlets. They're not doing anything as
far as the wiring. What your problem is there is the voltage.
r
Commissioner Plummer: I didn't think there was any residential on that island.
Mr. Smith: When the boats are in, the voltage drops down on some of the electric lines at ninety
volts instead of one ten, one twenty.
Mayor Carollo: Sir, I'm sorry, but is there anything that you want to address on this particular
project?
Mr. Smith: Yes.
Mayor Carollo: You know, you're talking about some other things that are not relevant to the
discussion we have here today.
Mr. Smith: Yeah, but I heard someone mention earlier about the electric. The reason is, I want
to see the development, and I want to see the fishing boats go back in action. Remember, I was
once... I had one of the best fishing boats in Miami, the "SEA RUNNER."
Mayor Carollo: But that has nothing to do with this project. If you could address this project.
Mr. Smith: On this project which you got going now.
Mayor Carollo: This is what I'm talking about, sir. This has got nothing to do with fishing
boats.
Mr. Smith: Yeah, but we were supposed to be... what you told at the last Commission meeting,
was to include us in plans, in the future planning of the island.
Mayor Carollo: Well, this has got nothing to do with that discussion.
Mr. Smith: Well, that's what I want to see. Does that include us? Because the line runs through
the middle of the marina.
45 June 16, 1997
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Mayor Carollo: Well, Mr. City Attorney?
Mr. Jones: Yes.
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Mayor Carollo: I do not want the Commission to get sidetracked into another discussion. Are
we in litigation with this gentleman or anybody that he represents?
Mr. Jones: Yes, we are.
Mayor Carollo: Well, that limits us even more than we are, because the meeting was called
today to discuss one project. You're getting into another area, and on top of that, you're in
litigation with the City.
Mr. Smith: Yes, we are.
Mayor Carollo: That really limits the discussion that we could have.
Mr. Smith: But excuse me, sir. The line seems to run right through the marina. It would include
our area.
Mayor Carollo: Sir, what is being discussed here is quite far from your marina out there, where
you have your ships at. It's got nothing to do with the other side of the island.
Commissioner Plummer: Do they allow live-aboards?
Mayor Carollo: So we're not discussing anything on your end of it.
Mr. Smith: Well, we're talking on the side of Chalks Airlines; is that correct?
Mayor Carollo: We're not discussing anything on the other side where the ships are at, that the
boats are at.
Mr. Smith: OK. Then I'm sorry.
Commissioner Plummer: Sir, what did you say your home address was?
Mr. Smith: 1040. I live on a boat at the marina.
Commissioner Plummer: And... That's not permitted, just so that you know.
Mr. Smith: It was permitted.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you are in violation of the law, if you're living at that address,
sir.
Mr. Smith: Well, there's a lot more, then, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I'm not saying that there's not, but I'm sure the Administration
will be happy to hear that, because you've got to move out.
Mr. Smith: OK. No, I... I mean, I'm not trying to hide nothing.
Commissioner Plummer: No.
46 June 16, 1997
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Mr. Smith: I mean, I'm telling you the truth.
Commissioner Plummer: You were honest, sir, but your honesty has said that you're in violation
of the law, because there are no live-aboards permitted at that facility.
Mr. Smith: Well, that's why we're having the litigation. That's what hasn't been discuss - what
do you say? - ruled upon by the court.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm sure they will.
Mr. Smith: I imagine they will.
I
Mayor Carollo: Anyway, sir, thank you for taking your time out and being here today.
Mr. Smith: Thank you, Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: Here comes the big elephant.
Mr. Al Cardenas: Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor, members of the board. For the record, my name
is Al Cardenas, offices at 201 South Biscayne Boulevard. And I'm here on behalf the Pan Am
Air Bridge folks. And their executives are here with me today, in case you wish to ask them any
questions or obtain any information. We're excited about what we feel is a long-awaited
improvement of the terminal situation there. Pan Am Air Bridge, as you know, is successor in
interest to Chalks, and successor in interest, we believe, to, obviously, all of the issues involving
the City, including the one involving the 1920s real property common law issues which were
held in abeyance by a court by mutual agreement with you, which mutual agreement runs for a
period of ten years. And I think your City Attorney correctly stated we have two or three years
pending on it, which we hope to conclude very soon as a result, hopefully, of amicably moving
forward with this project. We, as you know, now currently operate five seaplanes that have a
seating capacity of about seventeen people each, which, from a traffic standpoint, I think it's
easy to foresee that it's very easy to absorb from a traffic flow point of view. We believe that
there's significant opportunities for expansion, as Jack Luft mentioned. They're up to twelve
seaplanes, with a seating capacity of thirty individuals available; in the near future, for expansion
with as many or as few as the situation will warrant. But the clients ought to talk about that.
The point is that it's going to be a wonderful, progressive, well capitalized venture that will
create excitement and bring a lot of economic development to the City, the community, and in
particular, Watson Island. The current fenced in area is about three and half acres, and totally,
including the periphery parking, which is used outside the fenced in area brings it up to about a
total of five acres, the current facility. As you know, we're obviously interested in the
improvements we've talked about. We'll talk more with Jack Luft and your staff. I know we
will probably come forward before you again, but it's certainly a needed improvement. Just as a
word, of I guess, free advice, if you want to call it. I know that you're debating whether eighteen
acres is necessary, and I can certainly respect and understand the Commissioners' perspective
that this is very valuable property owned by the taxpayers, and you want to be very careful with
it. I think what you may want to consider contemplating is moving forward on an as -is basis,
based strongly on your legal counsel's opinion. And that is that the... And it's a solid opinion,
and I've reviewed it. But I think it hinges, rightfully so, on the fact that the majority of the uses
for this eighteen -acre site are your public facilities - your air/seaplanes terminal, your helipads,
your Convention and Visitors Bureau, your Visitors Center. And as an ancillary to that, as you
have in all public facilities, you'll have, for example, hopefully, a restaurant operation within the
terminal, which any seaplane or airport ought to have.
Commissioner Plummer: Another thing, we won't get revenue out of it.
47 June 16, 1997
Mr. Cardenas: And if there are other similar uses that you want to contemplate for the purposes
of providing revenues to the City, they fit in much better within the picture, and within the
definition of your legal counsel's legal opinion, when brought into an overall picture involving
public service. Once you start bifurcating that and revisiting the issue, you, I think, may start
running out of options that you have at this time. So that's just a word to the wise. But from Pan
Am's standpoint, we stand ready to answer any questions you have, and are excited about the
prospects of putting behind us some of the legal issues that are pending in the courts involving
Watson Island, and moving forward to an exciting next millennium with you. So thank you.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. City Attorney, they have two more years or whatever their years
are. If we don't renegotiate the lease, they're out, is that correct?
Mr. Jones: Well, I don't want to call it "renegotiating the lease." As I indicated to you, it's more
of a court -imposed settlement that they have.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, it's ten years.
Mr. Jones: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. So that's up in ten years.
Mr. Jones: So at the end of this...
Commissioner Plummer: So after the ten years is up, aren't we free to negotiate a new lease or
put it out to an RFP to anybody...
Mr. Jones: Well, that's... Yeah, well, that's the whole subject of the lawsuit. I would venture to
say that if we did that, I'm sure they would challenge, and of course, we'd have to go through
that whole process again.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, my concern now happens to be that the heliport, if it passes, is
going to be a private out to an RFP, not exclusive use. Now, in ten... I assume, today, Chalks
has an exclusive use of that area, by virtue of the court -appointed lease. OK?
Mr. Jones: Yeah, they do.
Commissioner Plummer: But in two years, that will no longer be the case. I would want to see
that in the interlocal agreement, that when that lease is completed, that we go out with an RFP,
that it would not be an exclusive to Chalks or Pan American, and that they would have the right
to bid like anybody else, so that we don't have an exclusive in this area here, after the two years
are up. So I think we need to put into the lease our flexibility that after those two years are up,
that it goes back out to an RFP, and it would be a facility open to the general public, not just to
an exclusive right, who's now asking us to subsidize their operation.
Mr. Luft: Whatever the terms of that agreement would be and how we resolve the current court -
stipulated settlement would have to come back to you in the form of that agreement, that sub -
agreement that we've all talked about. And that would be spelled out in detail, and you could
deal with it then, how you saw fit. Because this is with...
Commissioner Plummer: No, sir, I want... No, no, no. It should be in this interlocal agreement,
acknowledging they have two more years. And that as such...
48 June 16, 1997
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Mr. Luft: Yes. We have stipulated that, there is this court settlement in there.
Commissioner Plummer: Tell me what page it's on.
Mr. Luft: We've been right out front.
Commissioner Plummer: Tell me what page it's on, Jack, that it shows that they have another
two years there. I want it... I think it should be in this document now...
Mr. Luft: On... we have... you're right.
Mayor Carollo: If the shoe fits, wear it.
Commissioner Plummer: ... so that we know and they know that, in fact, that when the two
years is up, this thing will go out to an RFP, by virtue of the interlocal agreement today, and that
they will have the opportunity to bid like anyone else, but it will not be an exclusive for their
particular operation.
Mr. Luft: What we have said in the MSEA agreement is that any tenant or participant in this
agreement - sub -tenant - would have to clear any clouds on titles, any disputes, any settlements
with the City. It was not pointed at them by name, but specifically, it was there to address that
dispute, and that it would have to be settled. So the hope is, is that we would settle this before
we get to the two years out.
Commissioner Plummer: Jack, contracts are never looked at until there's a dispute. I think that
we need to put them on notice now. OK? That there's no question in their mind or in ours that
when their two years, if that's what the numbers are, when that lease is up, that this City has the
right, and will proceed to put it out to an RFP to the general public for a general facility, that
they will not have any vested right of an exclusive for themselves. If you put it in here now, then
you don't have to worry about it in two years, coming back and saying in two years, well that's
not the way I understood it. I'm saying... You know, Father Gibson had a way of saying, you
put things in black and white and there's no disagreement. If you don't put it in here, then
you're going to have a problem in two years, because I can assure you that Chalks will be back...
Pan Am will be back, and they will say we've got another exclusive right, and it's going to be
ours, and nobody else can use it, and that's it. So let's understand now exactly where we are.
Mr. Jones: Commissioner...
Mayor Carollo: Mr. City Attorney, can you address this?
Mr. Jones: Yeah. Commissioner, I think what you want, if I'm hearing what you're saying, is
really, you're sending a directive to MSEA, and telling them that there can be no subleases after
this period of time to Chalks without them going out and opening up to everybody else.
Otherwise...
Commissioner Plummer: No...
Mr. Jones: Let me finish, if you would.
Commissioner Plummer: Go ahead.
Mr. Jones: Because otherwise, to put something of that nature into the agreement, it's not going
to be binding, because the agreement is between MSEA and the City, not between the City and
49 June 16, 1997
Pan Am Air Bridge, whatever. What the court has basically said, at the end of the two year
period, we're going to have to deal with it one way or the other, anyway.
Mr. Cardenas: Basically.
Mr. Jones: So it's not going to achieve anything by putting this in the interlocal agreement.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me tell you what I'm trying to avoid. OK? In this interlocal
agreement... gives there the right to do certain things, to upgrade, to make better facilities.
They're doing it with their dollars and FOT... FO... whatever that State agency.
Mr. Luft: FDOT.
Commissioner Plummer: Now, in two years, they're going to say, hey, guys we spent a million
dollars ($1,000,000) fixing that facility up. And as such, we want to stay there. And as such, we
have an exclusive right. I'm saying to put them on notice today that if, in fact, any dollars are
spent there, it's at their own risk, and that in two years, we will go out to an RFP, and we will
advertise for the best possible deal for this City. And they will not have an exclusivity no more
than the heliport will have an exclusivity.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Cardenas.
Mr. Cardenas: Yeah. Basically, Commissioner, I think if you amend the interlocal agreement to
refer to the relationship with the Pan Am Air Bridge, you will, in essence, be violating the
settlement agreement with the court, because what that settlement agreement basically says is the
following, and that is that... First of all, the Pan Am Air Bridge or Chalks Airlines folks say that
they... Their basic claim is that they own the whole island. Your basic claim is that they're full
of it. And that's why we're in court.
Commissioner Plummer: Are we still in court?
Mr. Cardenas: Now there's a ten-year settlement agreement. And what that settlement
agreement provides for is that neither party will take any action within that ten-year period that
would in any way affect the claims of the other parties that are proscribed in that court litigation.
Commissioner Plummer: No contentions.
Mr. Cardenas: And so my point to you is that I think we're all navigating over, hopefully, a lot
of moot issues, because our goal would be to sit down with the City Manager and the City
Attorney, negotiate a proposed lease agreement that would have to come before you all. And
part of that negotiation will be bringing forth the issues involving the claim in court, and
hopefully, resolving everything simultaneously and coming back before you with the whole
enchilada, as they say. Now if you take unilateral action, frankly it doesn't matter to me, on
behalf of the clients, because anything that you do with MSEA on your own, unilaterally, doesn't
affect my client's case in court one way or the other. So it doesn't matter to me. I'm just trying
to tell you that you would be violating the court settlement if you do that.
Commissioner Plummer: Absolutely not, and this one vote would not, in any way, violate any
court agreement. But that court agreement is what we're being told is up in two years.
Mr. Cardenas: Now, all that court agreement does is it stops the parties' litigation. Once the ten
years comes through, if we haven't reached a settlement, we're in court, and whoever's legal
rights prevail in court, that'll be it.
50 June 16, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: Why should Pan American...
Mr. Cardenas: There are not legal rights which Pan Am Air Bridge currently has that will be in
any way affected when the ten-year period of time is over. All we've agreed to do is to not
litigate and not do anything outside the scope of the court that in any way will affect our
respective rights, one to the other. But when the ten years is over, if we don't... if we have not
effected a settlement and the issue has not gone away, we will be in court litigating the
respective rights of the parties.
Mr. Jones: Yeah, you're right. He's right.
Commissioner Plummer: That's fine, Al. But, you know, why should Pan American, who's
asking us to subsidize, have an exclusive right?
Mr. Cardenas: We're going to deal with all of the issues that...
Commissioner Plummer: This is publicly -owned property, whether it's the State of Florida owns
it or whether we own it...
Mr. Luft: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: ... that they should have an exclusive right, I think that's wrong.
Mr. Cardenas: Well, Pan Am, frankly, claims that they've been there since 1929, that you've
taken their property, that you've never compensated them for it, and at least the Federal
government provided the Native Americans with a reservation. And the least they need is some
rights with respect to their terminal, and that's what the litigation is all about.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Cardenas, you're going to make a lot of money out of this one.
Mr. Cardenas: I hope we settle it quickly and to the benefit of the taxpayers.
Mayor Carollo: The only difference is in that theory, Al, there were no Indians in the deal there.
Mr. Cardenas: Well, I don't know.
Commissioner Plummer: I remember Mr. Carollo always talking about the Native Americans.
Mayor Carollo: You're right. Can we find a solution that can satisfy the Commissioner, and
that we could deal with this whenever, two years from now, whenever the time is up? Because,
really, we're in the same situation now.
Commissioner Hernandez: There is... I don't see a solution, because at the end of these two
years, we're going to be back to where we started from before we entered into the ten-year
lease...
Mayor Carollo: Oh, Sure, sure.
Commissioner Hernandez: ... the ten-year settlement agreement. You're going to be asking for,
in other words, exclusivity and you want to go to an RFP process.
Commissioner Plummer: Absolutely.
Commissioner Hernandez: ... which is what I think should be done.
51 June 16, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: Absolutely.
Commissioner Hernandez: So I don't think we can work that out.
Mr. Jones: I think it can be worked out. It really is not the issue of exclusivity. The reason that
they're there now is because the court basically says, hey, this is what you're going to do now,
and at the end of ten years, you're going to be in the same position that you were in when you
initiated the litigation. So I'm sure that there's something that we can work out that would be
acceptable to this Commission, with the understanding that at some point in time - and 1 think
this is what AI is going to have to convince his clients - at some point in time, you're going to
have to. You know?
Commissioner Plummer: Well, you know, it's very simple. I can vote today not to do anything
with Pan Am. OK? Not to do anything with Pan Am; only let them have what the court
settlement says for the next two years. And if that's their attitude, and that's the way they want
to proceed, and they're going to take us to court in the next two years, hey, as far as I'm
concerned, Goodyear Blimp, they got another passenger.
Mr. Cardenas: I think this whole thing... I think all of you, all five members of this Commission
will be very comfortable with the negotiated settlement that will be brought before you. I think
that if you take a pass on the terminal facility, forget Pan Am for a second, which will be paid for
by FDOT and by the State of Florida, not a penny will be paid by the City taxpayers, you're
going to walk away from an enhanced and improved asset worth several million dollars, none of
which will be paid by you. And I don't see why you would want to walk away from that
opportunity.
Commissioner Plummer: In which we will not have any access or authority over for forty-five
years.
Mr. Cardenas: Oh, I don't think that will be the case. I think we're going to be back...
Commissioner Plummer: How many years?
Mr. Cardenas: ... before you shortly...
Mr. Luft: Forty-five.
Mr. Cardenas: ... with a sublease.
Commissioner Plummer: It's a forty-five year contract that we're talking about today.
Mr. Luft: We will own it.
Mr. Cardenas: But your contract doesn't mention us at all.
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. Hey, I'll be around to remind you.
Mr. Gilberto Elias: Good afternoon. My name is Gilberto Elias. Address, 3902 Southwest
137th Avenue. I would like to ask the Commissioner about the Watson Island issue. But I
would like to talk about something that I notice that nobody talk about here. The people that
operate helicopter, but they are not based in Watson Island. I'm based in Tamiami Airport. And
52 June 16, 1997
we have what we call (unintelligible word) air program. So we have Opa Locka, and we have
Tamiami, Homestead General, I can say even North Perry. And from those airports, everybody
use Watson Island. So usually, you go through Watson Island, and you see two airport... two
helicopter... I'm sorry, a helicopter there, and you see ones that are nothing there, where... there
are a lot in there, but you don't see because they are flying. So we are coming in and out of
Watson Island over everyday basis. So that's what really concern me. If something happen in
Watson Island... I don't know who is going to operate Watson Island. I don't know who is going
to be in all those buildings and, you know, made all those money. But if we close Watson
Island, it's going to harm it.
Mayor Carollo: Do you pay any fees to anybody now, to land there?
Mr. Elias: No. No. It's just a free place, you can go, you know, for practice. You can land your
students down there. You want to pick up your customers.
Mayor Carollo: This is what we're trying to do, cut the free lunch out.
Mr. Elias: Well, no, no. I'm in agreement with that. I don't have any problem to pay the fee.
Mayor Carollo: If you're going to land there, you pay a fee.
Mr. Elias: But it's the only heliport, legally, in the whole City. So, for example, I'm running a
flight school. FAA regulations require that the student go to the heliport and make three takeoff
and landing to be a pilot. Where I'm going to go? I'm base in Tamiami. If a customer call me
from Miami Beach because they want to sightsee, or photo, they're not going to drive all the way
to Tamiami, you know. I'm picking up them in Watson Island. So you go to Watson Island, you
can see DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency) helicopters landing down there, Customs helicopters
landing down there. A lot of, you know, people from Fort Lauderdale, Opa Locka, Tamiami
agencies. So it's a busy heliport. The problem is that people don't realize it, because they don't
see thirty helicopters on the same time. But, you know, the operation is not in...
Commissioner Carollo: Well, I do not think that the intention of this Commission is going to be
to close the heliport down.
Mr. Elias: OK.
Mayor Carollo: On the contrary, what we're trying to do is to improve it by having terminal
facilities and have it in such a way where people like yourselves that want to pay a fee to land
can pay it.
Mr. Elias: Good. No problem. No problem. I pay fees in Miami International, if I land, fifteen
dollars ($15) per... you know, every time that I land down there. That's no problem. All right.
Thank you.
Mayor Carollo: Well, we appreciate your input.
Mr. Elias: OK, thank you.
Mayor Carollo: Thank you.
Mr. Manolo Reyes: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, for the record, my name is
Manolo Reyes and I live at 5301 Southwest 7th Street. As you well know, I have been invited to
many radio talk shows, and I have expressed my concern about this project. And I have even
spoken with Mr. Jack Luft, and I expressed my concern about this project. One of my main
53 June 16, 1997
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concerns is the amount of land that is going to be given to MSEA. I don't think that in order to
make this project, we need to relinquish eighteen acres of land that could bring some more
revenues to the City of Miami, which I think is one of the most important issues that we have
now, given our financial crisis. I also have a concern about 29C, because by reading the
interlocal agreement, and I have been talking to different attorneys, and I just spoke with Mr.
Cardenas here, by going into an agreement with MSEA, we don't have to go into a referendum.
But the interlocal agreement has a termination clause. Let's say that a few years from now,
MSEA disappears and we terminate this contract. Then everything that is going to be built there
is legal. I just wish that if 29C is in place, that either we use it or this be a good time to go to to
to the public and say 29C and 29B has been an impediment for development. And I asked the
question point blank to Mr. Jack Luft, and he said in the past we had had problems with 29C in
trying to bring people to develop in those areas, and 29B, also. So I think that if the law is there,
we might as well address it. Or if not, let's take out that termination clause, which is in the
interlocal agreement.
Mayor Carollo: Well, let me say this to you, Manolo. Number one, I think that 29C, that
Charter amendment, has been something that's protected the City's properties. If we hadn't had
i
that Charter amendment back in '86, and it was approved by the public...
Mr. Reyes: Yes, I remember.
Mayor Carollo: ... we probably wouldn't have a lot of lands available today for the City to
develop, because we would have given them away in sweetheart deals during the last decade.
I
Mr. Reyes: Probably.
Mayor Carollo: You know, my Chief of Staff is paid by the City of Miami, like he rightly
should be, not like a former Mayor's Chief of Staff, who was paid by private interests, that have
interests in making deals in the City of Miami, including in this island. But the bottom line is
that in that Charter amendment, it was the intent not to hinder dealings between the City of
Miami and other governmental agencies. That's the difference. Now, again I go back to this.
We have to listen to and base our decisions based upon the legal opinions that the City Attorney
gives us. He said it's time to go forward in this. At the same time, do you have the same
concerns with the City of Miami entering into a contract with Dade County that in turn is
entering into a contract with the Heat and other entities? Because it would seem to me if that
concern is a valid concern in Watson Island with the Sports and Exhibition Authority, an agency
of the City of Miami, then it should be of the same concern in what would apply to one would
apply to the other.
Mr. Reyes: What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah.
Mr. Reyes: And I agree with you a hundred percent. If the Charter amendment is there, we
might as well use it or get rid of it. That's where I am... what my concern is.
Mayor Carollo: What we've done here is to be very straightforward in how we have proceeded
with it.
Mr. Reyes: I know.
Mayor Carollo: We haven't played the games or created a management contract like over at the
Melreese Golf Course, that we have rebuilt a golf course for private entities that at the end, we're
going to be collecting less from them than what we're having to pay in interest every year for the
four millions dollars ($4,000,000) that we've given them to redo that golf course.
54 June 16, 1997
1
Commissioner Plummer: Three point seven, but now, they've gone overboard.
Mayor Carollo: We've been right up front for some time. In fact, this is something that's been
discussed and has been discussed and negotiated even before I've been back to this Commission.
For over two years it's been going on. The question of the Charter amendment is one that I
would suggest that the City Attorney would address this... would address it now. As far as some
of the other areas that you touched upon, as I've said on many occasions here today, as I've said
the last time that this Commission met, it has been the Planning Department that precisely for the
reasons that you've described, has been saying that the Sports Authority should take the eighteen
acres, so that it could be in a position to help the City quickly in receiving additional revenues
for other parts of that island. The Sports Authority has no interest in taking over such a huge
process and piece of land. The Sports Authority only wants to help the City of Miami. I would
feel more comfortable in cutting it to the one acre for the building and the additional small
amount of acreage that's needed for the heliport and what the agreement is with Pan American
Airways. And if at some later time, the City sees fit that the Sports Authority might... should be
able to have additional lands to help the City, then bring it back. But I, for one, am not one
that's really happy in taking all those additional acres for precisely the reason that you know that
I mentioned here a little while ago. You know, we've worked very hard in the Sports and
Exhibition Authority to be helping the City of Miami. And in fact, the City would not have been
able to balance the books this year if it hadn't been for the nineteen million that it got from the
Sports and Exhibition Authority. For them to have one individual that Iast year was so in favor
of this come out now and try to make it into political football, you know this is just not what, you
know, it's right to do.
Mr. Reyes: Well, some of my concerns have been addressed by the Commission during this
workshop, and I still think that by reading the interlocal agreement, the land that is going to be
subleased says that... it reads that MSEA should obtain or is going to get fair market value. And
then the City of Miami... MSEA is going to turn around, it's going to pay the City of Miami... it
doesn't say fair value or something... It doesn't say fair market value. I just want those issues to
be defined. And also, I think that this is one of the most... the most valuable land that we have.
And my only concern is to make the best use of this land, so we can bring more revenues to the
City of Miami, particularly at this time of need, that we are in this financial crisis. And that has
been my concern and I have expressed that during the radio. And just... I just gave this for
your... just trying to inform you that there are many people like me concerned out there. Thank
you very much.
Commissioner Plummer: There's a big difference between Watson Island and the FEC property.
The FEC property, in my estimation, is... we're getting a fair return for our money. Whether it's
the hundred and twenty-one million, or whatever the numbers are, my concern still remains the
source of revenue here.
Mr. Reyes: That's my concern.
Commissioner Plummer: And that's where I have the problem, where the heliport's not bringing
anything in, it's going to be private, it's going to be for profit. Pan Am is private for profit,
exclusivity, and that's where I've got the problem. So take it from there. But there is a big
difference between the two projects.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Jack, Miami International Airport charges fifteen dollars ($15) for
landing fee of a helicopter. If we were to charge the same, how can we use that money? Miami
International Airport is a huge airport and we're talking...
Commissioner Plummer: We can't charge them. We can't charge them.
55
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June 16, 1997
Mayor Carollo: They can only use it and spend it within the airport.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Right. That's what I'm saying.
Commissioner Plummer: Within the trust.
Mayor Carollo: That's the same thing we're saying here.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Right. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. So we have
heard and we have seen that there is a lot of movement, and there will be a lot of movement. So
is there any way at all that we can use that money to improve other facilities, other than the
heliport, itself?
Mr. Luft: As long as it's an airport facility, an air transportation facility, we could probably use
it on other facilities, if we had some. You couldn't use it for parks and you couldn't use it for
roads, because it's confined to an airport function. But as we've shown in that area, you could
use it to improve the shorelines of Watson Island. And we've even talked with Mr. Dooley
about using it to improve sight-seeing areas and public viewing areas, picnic areas that would be
used by them in connection with viewing these facilities, the seaplanes landing and things, and
they would be willing and able to participate in that. So some of the areas that have been
generally described as recreation on the island could even fall within improvements that we
could do, and maintenance we could do in that area. So those monies can be directed to a variety
of public benefits, so long as they have some relationship to that activity there.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Not related to sea activity.
Commissioner Plummer: No.
Mr. Luft: Probably not for ships, no, I don't think we could use it for that. But shoreline
stabilization is part of a common concern for any kind of improvement on the property. So if it
was a shoreline facility, as the heliport would be or the seaplane base would be, any portion
within that airport boundary or within that area that they needed to stabilize the shoreline, we
could do that. If you needed to dock a ship there and you needed other improvements, tie -downs
for the ship, passenger terminals, that would be something else. We'd have to look to another
source.
Commissioner Plummer: Jack, answer me a question if you would. And I like the idea of
visiting ships, naval ships, military ships, on the outside. Who's going to build... the amount of
money that it takes to build a seawall? I know from Bayfront Park that the Core of Engineers
spent thirteen million dollars ($13,000,000) just for the amount of seawall that we have in front
of Bayfront Park. Now, there's no question there would have to be a seawall built to have and
accommodate the visiting ships.
Mr. Luft: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: Where would the money come from... If you got all of these fifty-
eight approvals that you need from DERM, where would the money come from to build that
seawall?
Mr. Luft: One of the top priority categories in the Florida Internavigational District Fund is
improving seawalls for maritime access and docking. That's probably the number one on their
list. So we've already discussed with Florida Internavigational District Monies Fund. This
particular project... We could not apply for those monies until we have designed drawings, and
56 June 16, 1997
we've gone through preliminary permitting. But we would intend... If it was this Commission's
desire to bring in large ships, we would certainly go for that preliminary design, and then go for
Internavigational District monies, And I think we would have an excellent chance of getting
them.
Commissioner Plummer: Visiting ships to Broward County are considered to be twenty-five
million a year in revenue to the community.
Mr. Luft: Mm-hmm, yes.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Can we... excuse me, Mr. Mayor, just a brief question.
Mayor Carollo: Sure.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Can the money of the landing fees be used to pay for fire and police
protection on the site?
Mr. Luft: Yes, it can. Yes, it can. Absolutely.
! Commissioner Plummer: Well that's already been agreed upon.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Yes, I know, but...
Mr. Luft: Yes. And general municipal services that we would provide to any public property.
Mayor Carollo: Jack, within the lease, or should I say the interlocal agreement, the City gets to
approve any other facilities that will be built on any of the other acreage, correct?
Mr. Luft: Correct. And this Commission, in its last meeting, specifically directed that any
approvals that were in there from the Manager, you wanted that changed to the Commission. So
we would do that.
Mayor Carollo: Right, to the Commission. So basically, if there's going to be any other kind of
retail space, restaurant, you name it, that's going to built there, terminal, it would have to be
approved by this Commission.
Mr. Luft: Correct.
Commissioner Plummer: Including in the heliport?
Mr. Luft: Including in the heliport, including the hangar, any, you know, any of that.
Mayor Carollo: And the Commission, of course, could work out any details, or should I say
accept any offer made by MSEA in percentages that it would get from whatever is built there
that it sees that is fair to the City.
Mr. Luft: Right. Correct. If we had a slightly larger area, say for MSEA - and that's why we
drew... the department drew the boundary the way we did - than just that for the air facilities, you
could position some of those commercial services, which would serve all of those passengers
and visitors in such a way that it wouldn't have to be inside the airport boundary and, therefore,
all those revenues would come to us, just as any other commercial leaseholder in the City.
Commissioner Plummer: Is there any proposal in the heliport proposal for storage, for repairs or
sale of helicopters?
57 June 16, 1997
Mr. Luft: That would... 1 haven't discussed this with any private carrier, but what we would
assume is that there would be nominal maintenance to keep a functioning helicopter going. They
would have to have some...
Commissioner Plummer: But it doesn't have to be done there.
Mr. Luft: Just what's necessary for on -site, routine maintenance on a daily... ongoing basis.
Commissioner Plummer: The point I'm trying to make, Jack...
Mr. Luft: It's not an overhaul base, no.
Commissioner Plummer: Next door... all right? If they make, next door, any sale of boats on
that property, we get a percentage of the sale.
Mr. Luft: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. My question is here, if they do repairs, do we get a percentage of
the repair bill? If they do storage, do we get a percentage of the storage rental rate? If they sell a
helicopter by virtue of being on this property, do we get a percentage?
Mayor Carollo: That could be included in the RFP that's put out.
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: But it's not there. That's why I'm asking all of these questions.
Mr. Luft: Right. Because this is just a way to get to that RFP, and then we would spell it out.
Commissioner Gort: Excuse me. Let me see if we can clarify some of the things. My
understanding is, whatever RFP will go out, it would have to come in front of us before it goes
out first. Am I correct?
Mr. Luft: Correct.
Commissioner Gort: And we can include whatever we decide or we think should be of the
benefit of the City, we'll include in that RFP. And then we get the right also to approve or not to
approve. Am I correct?
Mr. Luft: Right. Yes, sir. Correct.
Commissioner Gort: OK.
Mr. Luft: This document is basically saying to MSEA, all right, MSEA you have the right to go
out and solicit for these services. If you receive any proposals, any contracts, you bring them
back to the City Commission. And MSEA would be coming back to you with those for your
approval.
Commissioner Plummer: What about if we have a dinner and nobody comes?
Mr. Luft: I can assure you that at least one seaplane operator is interested, and several helicopter
operators would be interested. I have every expectation it would be a very tightly contested
issue.
58 June 16, 1997
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Mayor Carollo: All right, sir, your name and address, please.
Mr. Jim Hunter: My name is Jim Hunter, 14871 Southwest 155th Terrace. I'm the president of
HMC Helicopters. I just wanted to let the Commission consider also the indirect economic
benefit that the heliport brings to the City. There are many helicopter operators that are not
based at Watson Island, but are based around South Florida that use Watson on a daily basis. A
lot of film production that goes on originates out of Watson Island. If the heliport is made not
user friendly, it's just as easy for them to relocate their film production out closer to the airports
where we're at, and we'll just fly over the City, shoot the aerials and go back, and they won't be
staying in or around the City of Miami, in the hotels and restaurants...
Mayor Carollo: You're making a very good point, and this is what we were talking about
earlier. There's a tremendous indirect benefit that the City will have because of this.
Mr. Hunter: You have to look, I guess, farther than the direct landing fees for the corporations
that we fly and we pick up here. If we don't have that option...
Mayor Carollo: Absolutely correct.
Mr. Hunter. ... they would probably stay closer to where we're located than being able to pick
them up in the heart of the City.
Commissioner Plummer: And I haven't heard anything that if the heliport itself is not approved,
that you still can't land on Watson Island in a designated area.
Mr. Hunter: We're just... You know, Watson's very important for all the helicopter operators
only because of the location.
Commissioner Plummer: Right, you could land... and to answer Regalado's... If you don't have
the heliport there, and you have an area designated, we can charge a landing fee and it'll go
exclusively to the City of Miami. Am I right?
Mr. Luft: Yeah, but that would likely take several acres of the island...
Commissioner Plummer: We're talking about three for the heliport.
Mr. Luft: But two... a couple of pads on the site.
Commissioner Plummer: So you set aside three acres for a landing pad...
Mr. Luft: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: ... and they land there, and they pay us a fee, and that money comes
straight to us.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, and we could bring Jimbo to run it, too, you know, and we'll be fine.
Commissioner Plummer: If he sells smoked fish, it's a good idea.
Mr. Hunter: Thank you.
Commissioner Plummer: I like that idea.
59 June 16, 1997
'ttit.
1.
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(INAUDIBLE COMMENT NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, that we just have an area designated.
Mr. Daryl Martin: My name's Daryl Martin. I'm president of Biscayne Helicopters, 15144
Southwest 153rd Avenue.
(INAUDIBLE COMMENT NOT ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD)
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but what I'm saying is we just designate an area, and we charge
a landing fee, and then all that money comes to us.
Mr. Martin: I'd just like to reiterate what Mr. Hunter just said, and that we represent a large part
of the helicopter market, and there's a lot of incidentals that a lot of people don't realize that the
helicopters bring to South Florida. In times of disaster and stuff, they... in times of need, they're
there to help out. And it also is very important for the infrastructure in that the downtown
community has a location close to downtown that's convenient for the business owners and
executives to travel in and out of. And I'm a firm believer that helicopters are the future in
transportation. Some of the new models and designs that are coming out make them a lot safer
and a lot more environmentally friendly, so that they don't impact the environment when they're
making their approaches and landings. We support Jack's effort in upgrading Watson Island and
improving the facilities. The facilities down there today are deplorable. And some of the pilots
are in fear of their life when they have to sit down there overnight or during the night, waiting on
their passengers to come out of a Miami Heat game or a Panther game. And it's just... It's a
shame that... The property there can be improved upon greatly. And I don't think any of the
operators really have a problem in paying some sort of fee, if it goes back to the improvement of
the existing land. Thanks.
Mayor Carollo: Thanks for your input. Anyone else from the public that would like to address
this Commission?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but what I'm saying is...
Mayor Carollo: Hold on, J.L.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm sorry.
Mayor Carollo: Anyone else from the public that would like to address the Commission? OK,
then the public part of this meeting, then, is closed.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, the point I was trying to explore, that if, in fact, we had a
designated three acres where they could land and take off with their helicopters at... six thousand
is what Jack is estimating today. That would be approximately seventy-five thousand dollars
($75,000) worth of income coming into the City. That's direct to the City.
Mayor Carollo: And how much is it going to cost us...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Regalado, are you hearing what I'm saying?
Vice Mayor Regalado: No, I'm sorry.
Mayor Carollo: How much is it going to cost to earn those seventy-five thousand dollars
($75,000)? We're going to have to have people there. We will have to have additional facilities
there.
60 June 16, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: No...
Mayor Carollo: Yes, we are.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I don't know that.
Mayor Carollo: We are.
Commissioner Plummer: Tell me... Isn't it.,, by the year 2017, how many landings are you
expecting?
Mr. Luft: Between ten and fifteen thousand.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. So you're then... The point I'm trying to make is, if we use a
three -acre designated spot for landing, just takeoffs and landings, and they pay fifteen dollars
($15) for a landing fee, that's seventy-five thousand a year that would come straight to the City
of Miami. And it doesn't mean that fee can't be increased, I guess.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, but not straight. You're going to have to have people running it, some
people maintaining it...
Commissioner Plummer: Mow the grass.
Mayor Carollo: More than that. ... people there collecting fees. You might end up spending
more money than the seventy-five thousand we're going to get to be able to run it.
Mr. Luft: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: If it's poorly run, I agree with you. If it's operating efficiently...
Mayor Carollo: Not even poorly run, Commissioner.
Mr. Luft: Just one police officer would cost us that much. And you would have to have an
office. The problem we have today is we have no mechanism for collecting fees. There's
simply no one there. They come in, they come out. Unless you have an airport operation that
has a controlled landing program, an airport manager... and that's what this mechanism gets us.
We've simply gotten no money from any of these operations in the past.
Commissioner Plummer: Jack, are you aware the City's in financial need?
Mr. Luft: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you.
Mr. Luft: It takes money to collect money, is what I'm saying.
Commissioner Plummer: I have no further questions.
Mayor Carollo: Gentlemen, what is the will of the Commission?
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, I think that... Well, my position is that any major city in the
world, but also in the United States, and especially a City that depends on tourism and services
to survive on, an area like Dade County needs a Visitors Center. I would vote for a Visitors
61 June 16, 1997
I If
Center with the condition that the City of Miami will be promoted, the City of Miami will be
included in major production, that it's going to be marketed throughout the world. And I don't
know about the rest. I think... I still think that we should charge landing fees on the heliport that
we have now. Other than that, the rest of the project, I would rather wait, but I think that the
Visitors Center is a must, and that with those conditions, that the City of Miami will have the
promotion that we so badly need, that we should go ahead and start the process.
Commissioner Hernandez: I'll second the motion.
Commissioner Plummer: OK. I would hope that you would be more delineating than that.
Cutting down from the eighteen acres, what is your intent? Are you talking to the ten acres?
i
i
Vice Mayor Regalado: No, I'm talking the one acre.
Commissioner Plummer: One acre?
i
Vice Mayor Regalado: Yeah.
Mayor Carollo: Are you talking the one acre with the additional facilities for the heliport and the
Pan American seaplanes?
Vice Mayor Regalado: I'm saying... I'm saying that it is my understanding... I do not agree with
the eighteen acres.
Commissioner Plummer: Agreed. But I'm asking...
Mayor Carollo: Well, and I've stated before...
Vice Mayor Regalado: OK. What I'm saying is... What I'm saying, we should go ahead with
the convention center... the Visitors Center, and probably the heliport or... I mean the seaport for
the planes. That's... On the heliport, we should discuss whether we want to build a whole new
heliport or keep the one that we have with an employee of the City of Miami to charge landing
fees. I, frankly, don't know that right now. But I think... I think that we should go ahead with
the Visitors Center because that... the Visitors Center should go along with the construction of
Parrot Jungle. And if we could be included in the marketing campaign that is going to start the
Conventions Bureau as of maybe next month or two or three months while the process is done on
the construction, that will bring a lot of people to Miami and a lot of revenue to Miami.
Commissioner Plummer: Absolutely.
Vice Mayor Regalado: So my main concern now is to go ahead with this project of one acre for
the Visitors Center. I can... I would go along if everybody wants to defer... wants to study the
heliport, the landing for the planes. I have no problem, although we should look into the
different plans to have a better service on both areas. But my concern is to get Miami into the
process of marketing and advertising that the Convention and Visitors Bureaus have throughout
the world.
Commissioner Plummer: I can only comment that I would be willing to include the seaplane
base, if they are willing to acknowledge that they are out to an RFP in two years. If not, then I'm
in favor of your motion, which takes us out of any kind of controversy whatsoever. I've said that
the thing should definitely be a go item with the Convention Bureau, without any question, with
their understanding, of course, that the interlocal agreement with the City of Miami of a hundred
thousand dollars ($100,000) ceases as soon as the interlocal agreement is signed and... uh-huh,
scratch for money. Yeah, right. So I concur with you, Tomas, that I'm all in favor of that. I
62 June 16, 1997
would like to include the seaplanes, if they would like to acknowledge. I like the idea of the
visiting ships. I think that's a great idea. But I would limit it, even with those, if I were to be
agreeable, that it would be three, three and one, which would be seven acres.
Mayor Carollo: Well, the bottom line, Commissioner, as I've stated at the last meeting, I've
stated on at least three or four different occasions in this meeting that the Sports Authority did
not want, did not ask for the additional land. The Planning Department asked the Sports
Authority to accept that to bring additional revenues to the City quicker. Based upon everything
that I've been seeing, I think that the best way to proceed is to limit the amount of acres that we
would approve, not the full amount of acres, but to limit it to the approximately one -acre site that
the building is going to need. Now what's, I think, left to discuss is if we're going to include the
landing area, or possible landing area, for the American... Pan American Airways seaplanes and
for the heliport.
Commissioner Plummer: I've stated for the record, Mr. Mayor, if they're willing to
acknowledge that in two years or whenever that time frame is up, that they are aware that the
City fully intends to go out with an RFP, which will make it open to the general public, non-
exclusive, and they have the right to bid like anybody else, I would include them in there today.
And I think... because I think that they should be there...
Commissioner Gort: J.L., let me ask you this...
Commissioner Plummer: ... but not as a free ride, asking us to subsidize them.
Mr. Luft: I need to make something clear, because I think...
Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask one question...
Mr. Luft: Perhaps I haven't done a good job here. We're missing something.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, maybe you've done too good a job.
Mayor Carollo: Well, that's what I was going to ask you to do, Jack.
Commissioner Gort: There's no finances. There's no...
Mr. Luft: No. Let me be real clear. The helicopters are the reason that FDOT is at the table
with half of the money, because it fits into their regional system. If you take the helicopters out,
that's fine. They will take their money and go home. Now, what you've got is the Bureau
building their own building with their own money. That's a separate RFP. That is not a MSEA
agreement. That's just an RFP, under 29C. If you want to do a private lease with Chalks alone
and no aviation money, no public airport, just a lease with them, that's another 29C separate
RFP. That's a year and a half. We can go out to bid, and we can do that. OK? You see?
Commissioner Plummer: OK, you're making a good point. The only thing I would like to ask
when you come back...
Mr. Luft: We lose five million dollars ($5,000,000) from the State, is what we will do.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no, no. Jack, don't throw on the table this or death. OK?
Mr. Luft: I just...
Commissioner Plummer: We don't need the State's money, if we don't have a heliport. That's
why I continued to ask Merrett Stierheim can he build his building with the money he's
63 June 16, 1997
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providing. And he feels relatively comfortable that he can. The fifty percent that the State is
putting up is for the heliport.
Mr. Luft: It's for everything.
Commissioner Plummer: What do you mean, "everything"?
Mr. Luft: It's for half of his building...
Commissioner Plummer: No, that's not what he said.
Mr. Luft: Yes, it is.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, Merrett, go back to the microphone.
Mr. Luft: The State's funding...
Commissioner Plummer: Go back to the microphone.
Mr. Luft: ... is everything.
Commissioner Plummer: Wait a minute. I speak pretty damn good English language. Mr.
Stierheim, again, of the money that you're putting up, you are comfortable that you can build the
facility that you feel that you need, excluding the utilities, or the roads or that, your building, you
can build with the money you're putting up, correct?
Mr. Stierheim: I've given you a qualified answer, because I don't have...
Commissioner Plummer: I understand that.
Mr. Stierheim: ... the engineering information.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Mr. Stierheim: But there's no question that the two and a half million from the State, part of that
was going in to pay for the terminal facility.
Commissioner Plummer: That's the terminal. That has nothing to do with you.
Mr. Luft: Yes, it does.
Mr. Carollo: No, the terminal facility was going to be going in the same building, J.L.
Commissioner Plummer: No.
Mr. Luft: Yes, yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Again, Mr. Stierheim, please make it simple. Twenty-
five thousand square feet is what you need. You estimated at a hundred dollars ($100) a square
foot...
Mr. Stierheim: I said that's...
Commissioner Plummer: ... and you're putting up two and a half million dollars. You can build
your building without the beneficiary from the State of Florida.
64 June 16, 1997
h
Mr. Stierheim: Yeah.
Commissioner Plummer: Thank you.
Mr. Stierheim: But the State's money would help, without question.
Commissioner Plummer: And if the State didn't want to be so restrictive, I could think
differently. But not giving any income to the City of Miami, using three acres of our property,
the answer to that is no. This vote, no.
Mr. Luft: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: Now, Mr. Luft, when you come back...
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, before you go on, if we don't go with the heliport facility here, I
just want to let you know that at the end, I'm going to present a motion, asking the City
Administration to give whoever's out there now ninety days to pack and go, and we're going to
open it fully up to bids. So no one's going to get a free ride. I just want you to know.
Commissioner Plummer: That's it. Now, what I would like you to come back to, Mr. Luft, we
know that there's an office there for helicopters. OK? What I would like to know is whether or
not we can operate that facility where we derive one hundred percent of the revenue.
Mr. Luft: Which one?
I Commissioner Plummer: The one that's there now.
Mr. Luft: The one that's there today?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah.
Mr. Luft: Sir, we do today.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, we're not getting our revenue, is, I think, the major problem.
Mr. Luft: Well, that's right. But if you wanted to open that up for revenues, you would have to
go to a Charter referendum, a competitive RFP process, and we'll put out an RFP. And then in a
year and a half from now, we'll go to referendum in November.
Commissioner Plummer: Why do we have to...
Commissioner Hernandez: Jack, that's been my whole argument. That was my whole
argument.
Commissioner Plummer: Why do we have to do that if there's already an existing heliport
there? You don't make sense to me.
Mr. Luft: OK. If you...
Commissioner Plummer: There's a heliport there now.
Mr. Luft: If you do a public...
65 June 16, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: We're going to own and operate it.
Mr. Luft: OK,
Commissioner Plummer: We're not going to lease it out to anybody.
Mr. Luft: All right. Who's going to build it?
Commissioner Plummer: We're going... no, no, using the facility that's presently there.
Mr. Luft: The one that's there now? The one that takes twenty acres of the island for overflight
zones?
Commissioner Plummer: Jack, sometimes I wonder whose side you're on. Jack...
Mr. Luft: I'm on your side, Commissioner.
Commissioner Plummer: We have a facility there that's operating.
Mr. Luft: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: And just for the simple exercise...
Mayor Carollo: That's taking twenty acres.
Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no.
Mayor Carollo: He just told you it's taking twenty acres...
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor...
Mayor Carollo: ... and the flights are going through the areas you didn't want it to go through.
i
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, we're talking about three acres. Three acres, OK?
Mr. Luft: No. You have to move it to the shoreline in order to overcome the problem we have
today. You need to build a new facility someplace else on the shoreline, so you don't have the
impacts from the existing one.
Commissioner Plummer: All right. You know, I don't want to call the question, but...
Mr. Luft: You see what I'm saying?
Mayor Carollo: Captain Longueira, can you come up and give us the Police Department's
outlook at this?
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. We just sold their helicopters.
Mayor Carollo: That's why they have an even bigger interest in what goes on there.
Vice Mayor Regalado: The problem, Mr. Mayor, that I see is that what Jack is telling us, that his
is the perfect plan and that... we have to approve the whole thing, or we are dumb.
Commissioner Plummer: Exactly. Do or die. That's it, and that's what I'm opposed to.
66 June 16, 1997
Mayor Carollo: No, I don't think that's quite what Jack is saying. What Jack is trying to do is
be realistic in what he's telling this Commission.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mr. Cardenas: With respect, Commissioner...
Commissioner Plummer: The public hearing is closed.
Mayor Carollo: Hold on. If I may, Mr. Cardenas. Captain, can you address this Commission to
see what input, if any, the Police Department would like to give in this?
Captain Joseph Longueira (Deputy Commander, Police Support Services.): I can only go from
some of my experience when we did the initial studies of aviation in policework. And one of the
things we learned by working with the State is that other cities have utilized their waterfront to
minimize the amount of land that they had to dedicate to a heliport. If you put it central to your
site, you have to use more land for your landing and your takeoff paths to insure safety. And
what that does...
Commissioner Plummer: That's what we're talking about.
Captain Longueira: ... it minimizes the amount of potential projects you can do around that. By
putting it into... next to the water, like they do in New York, you actually land to the water, and
then you come in and land the helicopter physically on the ground. But your approach is to the
water. And that minimizes your impact on the actual property. And that's something that, when
we did our studies, we went and looked at other places and we talked to the FAA. That's one of
the things we learned. By putting it on the waterfront, you reduce the amount of property you
use for the helicopters.
Mayor Carollo: And that's what is being recommended right now for us to do.
Captain Longueira: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm ready to vote on the motion.
Mr. Luft: Commissioner, if you want to forego the FDOT dollars, you're going to have to spend
between a half a million and a million to build a new heliport facility of the three acres
somewhere else. That's going to be our cost. OK? Then you can lease it out to a helicopter
operator, if you wish.
Commissioner Plummer: We can also get the operator in an RFP to build it on his own and
manage it.
Mayor Carollo: Oh, come on, J.L. Let's not... you know... If we're going to kill it, let's kill it.
You know?
Mr. Luft: This is why cities are building heliports, because it's not economic to put all those
costs on the operator. ,They're building them in public heliports. OK? We will lose the two and
half million for the Visitors Bureau Building, and it will be a hundred and twenty to a hundred
forty dollars ($140) a square foot for Mr. Stierheim, which, if he wants to pay, he can pay. And
it will mean that we will have to shift all the costs of building the seaplane base to the Pan Am
Air Bridge.
67 June 16, 1997
Mayor Carollo: You know, every argument is being presented. Staff is giving us straight
answers that... it's going to cost a heck of a lot more to do anything else. If we want to run and
build our own heliport, we don't have the money. And if we get anybody out there that's going
to build it, we're surely not going to see any monies paid to us.
Mr. Marquez: Mr. Mayor, there's also another factor in all this. If we turn Florida DOT down,
they will be looking elsewhere for locations. OK? They want a unified... They want a terminal
building. They want a heliport where they can service multi -helicopters.
Commissioner Plummer: I hope you would recommend Virginia Key.
Mr. Luft: Virginia Key has the problems with the environment.
Mayor Carollo: Yeah, and I go back to, you know, what I figured. They want Jimbo to run it,
you know? Let's have six packs being sold from there, along with the fish, right? That's just
what we need.
Commissioner Plummer: With a liquor liability.
Mr. Stierheim: Mr. Mayor, can I... I don't want to muck this up any more than it is... But, J.L.,
I'm really concerned at a hundred. I mean, I've been talking to a few people. I don't have
contractors here, but you stop and look at all the appurtenances, not only the interior of that
building, building the Visitors Center and so forth and all of that, but the outside costs, the fact
that it's on an island, the building has to be elevated for flood purposes and so forth... and I think
Jack's estimate of a hundred twenty to a hundred and forty dollars a square foot, so that I don't...
I don't honestly know whether it's feasible.
Commissioner Plummer: Merrett, you might have to, without question, come up with more
money. But you're saving six hundred thousand dollars ($600,000) a year.
Mr. Stierheim: Well, you know, we can examine the opportunity, costs and... but I'm a bit
skeptical.
Mayor Carollo: Well, I'll tell you what's going to happen.
Mr. Cardenas: Also on the issue of...
Mayor Carollo: Excuse me, Mr. Cardenas. We say no to monies that is not going to cost the
taxpayers anything, from the State of Florida, and we're going to have the same situation there,
nothing's happening. And we're going to try to have the same helicopter operators stay there
with the same games going on. Then we'll hear some other excuses. And this is exactly what's
hurt the City in the past. Mr. Cardenas.
Mr. Cardenas: With respect to the issue of exclusivity, I wanted you to understand,
Commissioner, when you build a facility, an aircraft facility anywhere, as long as it's an FDOT
facility, which this is, it cannot be exclusively used by any particular airline. And so, we cannot
ask you for a right that the FDOT will not give us. We will have to negotiate terminal space
with you, counter space, but we cannot demand exclusivity, because it's not legal. You cannot
legally give us something that we would ask for. So you don't have the right to give us
exclusivity, and we don't have, therefore, a right to ask for it, number one. Number two, I just
wanted you to know it's a little more complicated... and I don't mean to rain on the parade of this
Conventions and Visitors Bureau facility, because God knows we want it, and the community
needs it. But as proposed on the site plan, it's located within this area of reference which is
protecting us in the court settlement agreement. So if you would... if you vote, for example, to
68 June 16, 1997
do the improvements on the terminal and to do the improvements on... go ahead with the
Convention and Visitors Bureau, Visitors Center, we come hack to your proposed lease
agreement, take away the court case and everything else, everybody goes home happy. But if
you don't vote to do the terminal facility today, and you vote to place the Convention and
Visitors Bureau site on the area that is protecting us with the court settlement, you put us in a
very difficult position, then, to try to protect our rights as we move forward. And I just wanted
technically to explain that, because we don't want you to take a vote on one thing and not the
other, without knowing that there may have to be some legal repercussions, which we would
hate to be placed in a position...
Mayor Carollo: Explain that clearly again to the Commission, so that the Commission can...
Commissioner Plummer: Oli, I hear exactly what he said. I'll tell you what, I'll compromise
with you. I'll include it today. If we don't negotiate successfully, will you agree that at the
termination, it goes out to an RFP? Are you that confident that we're going to negotiate? You
confident you're going to give us a good deal? I'll compromise. If you don't successfully
negotiate with three members, at least, of this Commission or better, that you acknowledge at the
end of the term of this ten years that you understand and will concur that it go out to an RFP.
That's a compromise.
Mr. Cardenas: Well, see, I don't understand why you want to go to an RFP, because you're
building your own terminal facility.
Commissioner Plummer: To try to get the best deal for this City that I can get. Today, you're
paying me nothing. If it goes out to an RFP, you could he bringing in revenue to the City.
That's the difference.
Commissioner Gort: My understanding, as part of this settlement, the reason they settled this is
because payments were being made... not for rent, but for services being received.
Commissioner Plummer: No.
Commissioner Gort: My understanding is that payment of about eighteen... Well, somebody
correct me if I'm wrong, because that's the information that I received.
Mr. Luft: They're paying a contribution to a parks fund. It's not a lease and it's not taxes.
Commissioner Gort: How much is it?
Mr. Luft: Fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000) a year.
Commissioner Gort: OK.
Commissioner Plummer: A year, yeah.
Mayor Carollo: The bottom line is that by...
Mr. Cardenas: You still have a second bite of the apple. The idea would be for you to approve
in concept these improvements, but that is a conceptual approval. We still would have to
negotiate an agreement with the City Manager and City Attorney, and bring it to you, which you
can turn down.
Mayor Carollo: By court order, they got a court agreement with the City, they got another two
years there.
69 June 16, 1997
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Commissioner Plummer: I agree.
Mayor Carollo: So basically, the bottom line is that if, after two years, they can't come to any
agreement that is satisfactory to this Commission, at least we got the facilities built there, and
then we could proceed to whatever has to happen. But at least, we got all the facilities built
there, and we got the State's money, too, where it's not costing us anything.
Commissioner Plummer: Joe, that was exactly what I said - OK? - that if they will acknowledge
that there is not a successful negotiation within the time frame to the expiration of whatever their
current lease is, that they will agree, on the record now, that they understand and will not object
or litigate us going out with an RFP to the public.
Mayor Carollo: But, J.L., you know, it's obvious that they're not going to want to give up any of
their rights. So in the meantime...
Commissioner Plummer: So I don't want to give up any of mine...
Mayor Carollo: Well, it's not that we're giving up any of our rights. It's that we're losing
significant State dollars to build a facility there that otherwise we would have to build. The time
to pick the fight, if we need to, is two years from now, after we've gotten the State's money,
after we build all the facilities there. Then if we can't resolve it two years from now, then, you
know...
Commissioner Plummer: What I'm trying to do is avoid the...
Mayor Carollo: But by doing it now, we're the ones that are losing out.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm trying to avoid the fight. OK?
Mayor Carollo: That's the way to avoid it.
Commissioner Gort: Let me ask you a question. My understanding is the big objection we all
had is the use of eighteen acres. I think most of us agree to go back to three to four acres where
all three of the components can be placed into it. And you need that money, and you need the
complete component.
Commissioner Plummer: No.
Commissioner Gort: OK.
Mayor Carollo: Yes we do need it.
Mr. Luft: Commissioner, if you don't want to take the DOT money, fine. It's your policy
decision. You are then shifting a hundred percent of the cost to each of the operators. An
operator paying a hundred percent of the cost will want an exclusive lease. An exclusive lease
will require a referendum. So there's very clear paths we can go. If you want to go the path of a
referendum, in an exclusive lease, fine. But I just... You need to understand that, because if we
cancel the heliport or we don't do the State monies, it sends on us a very different path.
Commissioner Plummer: There's a motion on the floor.
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, have you understood what has been said here? You're basically
going to... by leaving the motion to one acre... I doubt if you're ever going to get Merrett to go
70 June 16, 1997
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forward in this before it's all over. And we're going to lose a significant amount of monies that
we'll never recoup again to build a first-rate facility for a heliport, terminal for seaplanes, that we
won't have the money to do on our own, and no one is going to come in here and put the money
up to do.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, I don't think that... no one wants the City of Miami to lose
funds, but it seems that we have had a problem since the beginning with the eighteen acres...
Mayor Carollo: This has nothing to do with the eighteen acres. The eighteen acres came from
staff.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Right.
Mayor Carollo: I'm the one that said from the beginning to cut that out completely.
Vice Mayor Regalado: All right. So I won't have any problem to modify a motion. I could say
that we could agree on the facility for Pan Am, and they would, in turn negotiate a new
agreement with the City when the time comes. I understand J.L.'s position, and I share part of
his concerns. So I don't have any problem if anybody wants to modify a motion. My problem is
the eighteen acres. My problem is that this fast... this quick plan that was presented to us...
although we were told that it was approved two years ago... of building some buildings and
projects in one of Miami's best land, it was too much to digest in a few hours. So I will say that
I will modify my motion and if all the members of the Commission want to include these
projects, be that of the heliport, be that of the Pan Am Bridge, but with the limited use of land,
I'm fine. So this is from my position.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I would like to see the compromise to the seaplanes. And I
would ask that that compromise be incorporated, if it's agreeable, as a friendly amendment to
your motion that they be given the opportunity to negotiate with the City, and failure to do so,
they acknowledge and would not litigate as to the City's right to put out an RFP. I think that
protects the City. We know that they're talking three acres, and I think that it just forestalls court
action in two years which might occur otherwise.
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, we're going to be going to court action right away and lose out
on the State's money, because by us being able to build this building here, we're going to be
doing it on what they claim is their land. So they're going to turn around right away and sue us.
So we're going to lose out on everything all together, and probably be in another situation where
there will be another case that we end up losing after who knows how many tens of thousands of
dollars in legal fees. Commissioner Gort... Commissioner Regalado basically, I think,
understood the...
Commissioner Gort: Let me tell you where I stand. The DDA approved this, they wanted to see
it. The Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce looked at it and would like to see the whole
facility. The biggest problem that we've had and I had, and I think everybody had here is the
amount of land that was being used. I don't have any problem having all three of the facilities
within three acres, if it can be done in three acres.
Mayor Carollo: Well, you got three acres approximately for the heliport...
Commissioner Plummer: Three, three and one.
Mayor Carollo: ... and you got what was grandfathered in, which is another three or so...
Commissioner Gort: J.L. stated seven acres.
71 June 16, 1997
Mayor Carollo: Approximately that.
Mr. Luft: Seven to ten. You know, you have to have some parking for this.
Commissioner Plummer: Jack, what do you mean, "seven to ten?" Three, three and one is
seven.
Mr. Luft: I've always said three to four.
Mayor Carollo: Approximately.
Mr. Luft: Look at the record. Commissioner, I'm trying to be fair.
Commissioner Gort: Let's put it this way. It should be built within seven acres.
Commissioner Plummer: Do you know what an acre of property is worth on that island?
Commissioner Gort: It should build within seven acres and the rest of the land should be used
for the City's RFP, or whatever benefits that it can bring to the City.
Mayor Carollo: Basically... Come on, guys. I mean, we're going to be arguing about an acre,
more or less, that might be needed or not needed for a property when we've been letting so many
hundreds of acres just rot away... and have let so many acres of that island rot away, too.
Commissioner Plummer: May I make a suggestion, Mr. Mayor, and to the maker of the motion?
That we go ahead and vote today on that which has been proffered, with or without my friendly
amendment, and that we defer for further study the remaining portion of the project. But that at
no time... at no time will it exceed seven acres.
Mayor Carollo: How many acres, Mr. Cardenas? From what you have today, you're being cut
down in acres, I believe, to a smaller area.
Mr. Cardenas: Yes. With the current fenced in area today is three and a half acres and we use
the... outside the fenced in area for parking.
Commissioner Plummer: But that's not part of your lease today.
Mr. Cardenas: That's correct.
Mayor Carollo: What is the approximate amount of acres that you'll be using under this new
plan?
Mr. Cardenas: Well, three and a half acres, plus whatever parking facilities are provided. If
they're provided in common use for everyone, then all we would need would be three and a half
acres plus a parking allocation.
Mayor Carollo: So you're looking at about three and a half acres...
Mr. Cardenas: Plus the parking allocation.
Mayor Carollo: Jack has stated it's three to four acres that he needed for the heliport.
Mr. Luft: Well it could be three with the common parking. I mean, I don't know if you want
separate parking or common.
72 June 16, 1997
awl'
Commissioner Gort: Jack, Jack, I think your parking...
Mayor Carollo: Well, let's cut that down halfway to three and a half. So it's three and a half,
three and a half...
Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, I think the parking...
Mayor Carollo: ... and if we put one more acre, that's eight acres that we have, approximately.
Mr. Luft: Right.
Commissioner Gort: I believe the parking could be common parking, to be used and owned by
this facility or any future facility that's built within that area. Whatever we build there is going
l+ to need parking, and I think there's an area that should be designated for parking.
Commissioner Plummer: Let me understand. The motion is to approve solely and entirely today
the conference center. Merrett...
Mayor Carollo: No. The motion...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, let me finish.
Mayor Carollo: The motion that was being discussed, as I understood it...
Vice Mayor Regalado: I'm willing to modify, J.L., the motion. I think that what you said to
approve the three projects and defer a decision on the other area, would be a sensible one.
Commissioner Plummer: But that's what I'm thinking, and then we go back and we'll restudy
the other portion of it.
Mayor Carollo: In other words, the motion will be to approve the Visitors Welcoming Center,
with the heliport and the space for the Pan American planes and to...
Commissioner Plummer: No, not the heliport.
Mayor Carollo: Well, let's bring it to a vote and see what this Commission wants, if there's a
second for that.
Commissioner Plummer: All right. My understanding of the motion that I'm going to vote on
now is we outright approve Merrett Stierheim's facility, that we compromise or offer a
compromise to Pan Am. The rest, we will defer with a full proviso that at no time will the total
project encompass more than eight acres. Now, that's what I understand is the motion. That's
what I'm voting on. If it's different...
Mayor Carollo: No, that's not what I understood. First of all, if we... We're either going to
approve the heliport and the seaplane part of it or it's clear this is not going to get built. So let's
not beat around the bush. Either we approve one, or we don't approve anything, and kill it.
Simple as that. Save Turquoise (phonetic) and his helicopters. That's what's important. You
know, I'll put it out in the open.
Commissioner Plummer: I don't necessarily agree with that.
Mayor Carollo: I'll put it out in the open.
73 June 16, 1997
Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, My understanding is, J.L.'s got a good point in there. And that
point is that the... this gives staff the opportunity to come back and tell us how much it would
cost to build our own and all that...
Commissioner Plummer: That's correct.
Commissioner Gort: ... and then we can make a better decision, not only ourselves... It's not
killing the heliport. It says, let's come back and look at the helicopters next week...
Commissioner Plummer: Other options.
Commissioner Gort: ... when the staff gets more information. Am I correct, J.L.?
Commissioner Plummer: That's exactly what I'm saying.
Commissioner Gort: He's not saying... not to eliminate it completely.
Mayor Carollo: What are you saying now, Commissioners? Explain it again so that we can
understand it.
Commissioner Gort: My understanding is J.L. is approving... the suggested amendment, the
friendly amendment is to add the aviation, the Pan American part of it, the helicopter not to go
beyond, no more than eight acres, that the air,.. the helicopter, he would like to see, like the other
Commissioners expressed in here, staff to come back and see what would be the cost of us doing
our own running and so on, and how it would affect this project, if we don't get the funding, the
other two and a half, and let them get the full picture, not only here, but everybody.
Mayor Carollo: The staff has just been saying how it's going to affect the funds. Now, if what
you want is to..
Commissioner Gort: I understand, but everybody is saying that we want to... they want the City
to run their own helicopter pad. I wanted to know how much it would cost, and what would be
the feasibility of it. I think that's what J.L. said.
Commissioner Plummer: That's my understanding.
Mr. Marquez: Mr. Mayor, for staff to come back to you with a whole new proposal, because
that's what you're asking for, it's... it's a building...
Commissioner Plummer: It's not what I'm asking for. If you want to go through the mechanics
of tying up your staff doing that, that's fine with me. What we're asking you to do is to come
back, knowing fully well that it will not exceed eight acres, show us exactly what would happen,
tell us if we were to go into landing for heliport, not with a terminal, not without a building, and
not without State money, if we were to do it, how there's a possibility... could we make money,
we could not make money, and that's what you come back with at the final time. I don't know
how you would come at this point to say what is the best way to lay out eight acres. I don't
know that. OK? That you'll come back to us with on the other side of the coin. It's just that
simple.
Mayor Carollo: Well, Let's be fair to Merrett Stierheim. Merrett, how much more time do you
need? Because I don't want this Commission to be, for political reasons or for the personal gain
of anybody else, be playing around with you and the Visitors and Convention Bureau. How
much time can you wait before you need an answer? Otherwise, you know, if want to kill this,
kill it. It'll be a lot less work on some of us in the Sports Authority.
74 June 16, 1997
Mr. Stierheim: That's a hard question to answer. How much time are we talking about?
Commissioner Gort: We can bring it back next meeting or next two meetings.
Commissioner Plummer: I'm ready to vote today.
Mr. Stierheim: Two weeks? I mean, I don't know. Jack?
Commissioner Gort: I think that the facts that the Commissioners are asking for, they can bring
them back within next week's meetings.
Mayor Carollo: Well, you know, the resolution that we're taking doesn't say anything. So
basically...
Commissioner Hernandez: Why don't we just defer, then?
Mayor Carollo: Well, that would be better, to defer, than to take that resolution up.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Next week, Mr. Mayor... because we're not asking for a whole new plan
for a whole Watson Island. There's basic, basic questions, you know. How much that building
will cost and...
Mr. Stierheim: I mean to a time certain next week? Can we defer to a time certain?
Mayor Carollo: The 26th, is when we meet again.
Mr. Stierheim: That gives me time to answer your question on the...
Commissioner Plummer: Well, and Merrett, as far as I'm concerned, yours is not in controversy.
On the 26th... we can pass that today or we can pass it on the 26th. Your area is of no concern.
Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, you only want to listen to what you want to listen to. What you
haven't heard is that by us just approving this, we're not going to go anywhere. We approve
Stierheim's proposal, and we're not going to be able to get off the ground with it at all. First of
all, he probably won't be able to pay for it with the funds that he has available. Second of all,
we're going to get tied down in court, for sure, for some time by Pan American. Whether they
win or not, I'm not even getting into that. They will be able to tie it up sufficiently in court
where they're going to then have to go somewhere else and we lose out on it. Miami Beach
wants them, they've been after them. Now, they've come to Miami.
Commissioner Plummer: Joe, I respect your opinion. I don't agree with it. OK? I'm saying to
you that in my estimation, we can talk about it. I have not asked one serious question that I
asked staff to come back with. Who came up with this cockamamie idea that the heliport could
not give revenue to the City of Miami? Now, I don't know who made that rule that says that the
heliport will have a trust fund and the City of Miami can't get a dime out of it, that it's all got to
go back in for maintenance, and we got to support Pan Am. So all I'm saying is, I want to
know...
Mayor Carollo: This is not... We're not supporting Pan Am, J.L.
Commissioner Plummer: I want to know who made this absolute rule that there had to be a trust
fund, and the City could not derive revenue out of waterfront property.
75 June 16, 1997
i,
Mr. Marquez: Mr. Mayor...
Commissioner Plummer: You don't have to give it to me today. Give it to me the 26th.
Mr. Luft: I can tell you.
Mayor Carollo: He can answer it right now.
Commissioner Plummer: Fine.
Mr. Luft: I can tell you. FDOT assurances... and this is for any airport or facility in the State of
Florida that uses fuel tax monies from the State, fifty percent funding. If you use their monies,
j you must enter into the assurances that they have that the money.., the investment they, the State,
are making in the airport, will be protected both in maintenance and operating for the life of that
airport, for twenty years, by assuring that the revenues generated go back into the airport.
Commissioner Plummer: Twenty, instead of forty-five?
Mr. Luft: It's twenty years.
Commissioner Plummer: OK, let me ask you another...
Mr. Luft: Their rules apply for twenty years.
Commissioner Hernandez: So why do we have to go to forty-five?
Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask another question.
Mr. Luft: Pardon me?
Commissioner Hernandez: Why do we have to enter into a forty-five year lease?
Mr. Luft: We don't have to enter into... the forty-five years...
Commissioner Plummer: That's in the interlocal.
Mr. Luft: ... was part of the funding and for the Visitors Bureau facility. You may choose to do
twenty with Pan Am Air Bridge. You may choose to do twenty with a helicopter.
Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Luft?
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: What stops the City from being the operator of the heliport, and we get
the revenue from whoever the winning bidder would make the revenue from?
Mayor Carollo: I'll tell you what would stop the City. We don't have the money to build it, and
no one else is going to put up that kind of money, because they won't get it back that quick.
Commissioner Plummer: You're not listening, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, we're going to put out
that heliport when built with State money to an RFP, to a private profit -making corporation,
correct?
Mr. Luft: That's right.
76 June 16, 1997
Commissioner Plummer: OK. Why can't the City be that corporation who's going to operate it,
and we derive the revenue, instead of giving it to a private party? Anybody thought about that?
Mayor Carollo: If it could be done, Commissioner, I would have no problems with it.
Commissioner Plummer: If we go to an RFP, we can surely do it. We don't have to put it out to
an RFP. Am I correct?
Mr. Luft: You're saying we would come up with fifty percent of the cost of building the facility.
Commissioner Plummer: It is not fifty percent of the facility. The State wants to put in the
money, correct?
Mr. Luft: Fifty percent...
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mr. Luft:... to build it.
Commissioner Plummer: They're going to put in... Are you saying the private developer's
going to put in the other fifty percent?
Mr. Luft: Yes.
Commissioner Plummer: Then that won't work.
Commissioner Hernandez: Mr. Mayor, can we withdraw the prior motion and...
Mayor Carollo: I think it would be best to defer this, get this answer in the next meeting.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Mayor Carollo: Heads or tails, let's go one way or the other.
Mr. Luft: The answer would be how can...
Mayor Carollo: There's a motion to defer by me.
Commissioner Plummer: Always in order, I'll second it.
Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor, did you want to make it for a time certain?
Mayor Carollo: It's a substitute motion that I have on the... Can we do it in the morning, say at
ten a.m., time certain?
Commissioner Plummer: Fine with me.
Mr. Marquez: Mr. Mayor, may I ask for clarification?
Mayor Carollo: On the 26th?
Commissioner Hernandez: Thursday.
77
June 16, 1997
Mayor Carollo: Thursday, the 26th?
Commissioner Plummer: What kind of clarification do you need on a deferment?
Mayor Carollo: Excuse me?
Mr. Marquez: Well, I don't need clarification on the deferment. I understand that. I need
clarification as to what specifically is being asked by the Commission, so we can address the
specific questions. Because as I understand it...
Mayor Carollo: Go ahead, gentlemen.
Vice Mayor Regalado: No more than eight acres.
Mr. Luft: No more than eight acres, we understand that. Are you suggesting that we keep the
current heliport landing pads where they're at now, or relocating them so that we can effectuate a
better landing...
Commissioner Plummer: We'd like to know the options.
Mr. Marquez: All options, OK.
Commissioner Gort: My understanding is, the way this place is right now, it takes too much
land. If we can concentrate it all, that's something we would like to look at. I think the question
that the Commissioners are asking is, can the City go ahead and do it directly, the part of the
helicopter?
Commissioner Plummer: And I have one further question.
Mr. Marquez: All right. When you say, "Can the City do this directly?" are you talking about
the City building a terminal complex like we're contemplating with the participation of the State,
1 or are you just talking bare bones, minimum landing pad?
Commissioner Gort: My understanding is the question being asked in here - and correct me if
I'm wrong in my interpretation - can the City go directly and work out the same deal with the
State, or does it have to be through MSEA?
Mr. Luft: OK. I...
Commissioner Gort: You don't have to answer now. I think those are the questions you need to
answer. OK?
Mr. Luft: No, I'm not answering. I'm just clarifying here. So we've got a seaplane operator
that's currently there.
Commissioner Gort: Right.
Mr. Luft: And so we're going to deal with them.
Commissioner Gort: Right.
Commissioner Plummer: As a possible compromise.
Mr. Luft: OK. And we're going to deal with the Visitors Bureau and their contribution of fifty
percent of the funds to build the visitors center and terminal.
78 June 16, 1997
�I�
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Commissioner Gort: Right.
Mr. Luft: It's all one building. The terminal, passenger terminal is part of it.
Commissioner Plummer: Either/or.
Mr. Luft: No...
Commissioner Plummer: Either/or.
j Mr. Luft: I'm assuming we're getting fifty percent funding.
i
Commissioner Plummer: You're assuming wrong.
i
Mr. Luft: No, because you just said, what would happen if the City took it's half of the money
and the other half from the State?
Commissioner Plummer: Oh, I'm sorry. But it's not that they have to build or don't build.
Mr. Luft: Well, OK.
Commissioner Plummer: Look, if Merrett Stierheim is a smart businessman - all right? - he's
willing to put up two and a half million dollars. If that building is going to cost him three, and
he's saving six hundred thousand dollars a year in rent, you want me to tell you his answer right
I now? "I'll find the three." I don't want it to cost him that. OK? And if he's smart, and he keeps
it down to a hundred dollars ($100) a square foot, God bless him.
Mr. Stierheim: You got to operate it, maintain it...
Commissioner Plummer: I hear you.
Mr. Stierheim: You got to insure it...
Commissioner Plummer: I hear you. It'll be a hell of a lot less than six hundred thousand a
year.
Mayor Carollo: There's a motion to defer...
Commissioner Hernandez: Time certain, ten in the morning...
Mayor Carollo: Ten in the morning.
Commissioner Hernandez: ...Thursday, the 26th.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, that's fine.
Mayor Carollo: There's a second by Commissioner Hernandez. All in favor, signify by saying
11 aye .
The Commission (Collectively): Aye.
79 June 16, 1997
rr,
The following motion was introduced by Mayor Carollo, who moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 97-416
A MOTION TO DEFER CONSIDERATION OF PROPOSED INTERLOCAL
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE MIAMI SPORTS AND EXHIBITION AUTHORITY
AND THE CITY OF MIAMI FOR A PROPOSED WATSON ISLAND AVIATION
AND VISITORS CENTER TO THE COMMISSION MEETING PRESENTLY
SCHEDULED FOR JUNE 26, 1997, 10 A.M.; FURTHER DIRECTING THE
ADMINISTRATION TO REDUCE THE TOTAL PROJECT AREA BEING
CONSIDERED ON WATSON ISLAND FOR SAID FACILITY TO A MAXIMUM OF
EIGHT (8) ACRES; FURTHER DIRECTING THE ADMINISTRATION TO BRING
BACK ALL OPTIONS RELATING TO THE REMAINING PORTIONS OF THE
PROJECT (INCLUDING COST FACTORS RELATING TO INCLUSION OF THE
LANDING AREA FOR PAN AMERICAN SEAPLANES AND THE HELIPORT;
FEASIBILITY OF THE CITY OPERATING SAID FACILITY; PROSPECTS OF THIS
BEING A REVENUE PRODUCING VENTURE, THE IMPACT TO THE CITY OF
NOT RECEIVING $2.5 MILLION IN STATE FUNDING; BUILDING LAYOUT OF
FACILITIES ON THE PROPOSED EIGHT ACRES, ET CETERA).
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Hernandez, the motion was passed and adopted
by the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Wifredo Gort
Commissioner Humberto Hernandez
Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado
Mayor Joe Carollo
NAYS: None.
ABSENT: None.
Mayor Carollo: Before we depart, I'd like to make another motion. I'd like to make a resolution
instructing the Administration, beginning tomorrow, to give the operator of the helicopter service
there the ninety days that we have to give them to get them out. Even if we don't have no one
else there, get them out, then have the free-for-all that's still going on there.
Commissioner Plummer: Well, I'll vote for that motion, but don't you think that we should have
some facility there of some kind?
Mayor Carollo: Good. The City could run it, you could go there, get Jimbo, you know,
whoever.
Commissioner Plummer: That's fine.
Mayor Carollo: But get these guys out of there.
Commissioner Plummer: The City can run it.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Second.
Mayor Carollo: There's a motion and there's a second. All in favor, signify by saying "aye."
80
June 16, 1997
The Commission (Collectively): Aye.
Mayor Carollo: Ninety days they're out of there.
The following motion was introduced by Mayor Carollo, who moved its adoption:
MOTION NO. 97-417
A MOTION INSTRUCTING THE ADMINISTRATION TO NOTIFY ON JUNE 17,
1997, DADE HELICOPTER JET SERVICES, INC., THE OPERATOR OF THE
HELICOPTER SERVICE ON WATSON ISLAND, THAT THE CITY WILL
TERMINATE SAID CONTRACT WITH THEM 90 DAYS FROM JUNE 17, 1997;
FURTHER INSTRUCTING THE ADMINISTRATION TO ASCERTAIN THAT SAID
HELICOPTER SERVICE IS OFF THE PREMISES FOLLOWING EXPIRATION OF
THE 90-DAY PERIOD.
Upon being seconded by Vice Mayor Regalado, the motion was passed and adopted by
the following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Wifredo Gort
Commissioner Humberto Hernandez
Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado
Mayor Joe Carollo
NAYS: None.
ABSENT: None.
3. DESIGNATE VICE MAYOR REGALADO AS REPRESENTATIVE TO MEET
WITH SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT
CONCERNING FLOODS IN MIAMI RECENTLY -- ALSO TO MEET WITH
DADE COUNTY OFFICIALS CONCERNING STORM SEWER SYSTEM IN
FLAGAMI AREA. (See label 1)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commissioner Gort: There's a pocket item.
Commissioner Plummer: Your pocket item, Tomas?
Vice Mayor Regalado: Just very briefly, about the floods that we had had in the past week. If
the Commission will give me permission to meet with the South Florida Water Management
District, I am...
Commissioner Plummer: By the way, did you hear television blaming you for that flooded area?
Commissioner Gort: Who?
Commissioner Plummer: Channel 7. They're blaming Mayor Joe Carollo and the City
Commission - and it's West Miami - for the flooding area, not doing anything about the flooding
area.
81
June 16, 1997
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Commissioner Hernandez: Make a motion assigning, is that what you want? Make a motion
assigning Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado to meet with the Water... South Florida Water
Management on behalf of the City of Miami Commission.
Commissioner Gort: I'll second. And also, you should get the Dade County involved in it
because my understanding is one of the biggest problems is Flagami. They built the sewer storm
system, but unfortunately, the developer walked out before it was finished, and somebody else
finished it. My understanding is there is a problem in there, and our Public Works is working on
that.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Commissioner, Dade County will be involved.
Commissioner Plummer: Yeah. But you know, Tomas, I'll vote for your motion. Let me tell
you something...
Mayor Carollo: Mr. Vice Mayor, I apologize. I have to go. I've got someone waiting.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Sorry.
NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Mayor Carollo exits the Commission
chamber at 3:45 p.m.
Commissioner Plummer: One of the TV stations had the audacity to say that the problem was
laid at the feet of Mayor Carollo and the Miami City Commission. Guess what? The other
stations had it right. It was the City of West Miami.
Vice Mayor Regalado: That's true. No, but, Commissioner, we...
Commissioner Gort: Call the question. I got to get out of here, please.
Vice Mayor Regalado: Yeah, OK. There's a motion...
Commissioner Hernandez: Motion and a second.
Vice Mayor Regalado: I'll meet and report to you on the 26th.
Commissioner Plummer: OK.
Commissioner Gort: Thank you.
Vice Mayor Regalado: All in favor, say "aye."
The Commission (Collectively): Aye.
82 June 16, 1997
a
The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Hernandez, who moved its adoption:
4.
MOTION NO. 97-418
A MOTION DESIGNATING VICE MAYOR REGALADO AS THE COMMISSION
REPRESENTATIVE TO MEET WITH REPRESENTATIVE(S) OF THE SOUTH
FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT IN CONNECTION WITH FLOODS
WHICH OCCURRED IN THE CITY OF MIAMI EARLIER THIS MONTH;
FURTHER REQUESTING VICE MAYOR REGALADO TO ALSO MEET WITH
APPROPRIATE OFFICIALS OF DADE COUNTY IN CONNECTION WITH STORM
SEWER SYSTEM IN THE FLAGAMI AREA, WHICH CONSTRUCTION REMAINS
UNFINISHED; FURTHER REQUESTING VICE MAYOR REGALADO TO COME
BACK WITH A RECOMMENDATION FOR COMMISSION CONSIDERATION ON
JUNE 26, 1997.
Upon being seconded by Commissioner Gort, the motion was passed and adopted by the
following vote:
AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr.
Commissioner Wifredo Gort
Commissioner Humberto Hernandez
Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado
Mayor Joe Carollo
NAYS: None.
ABSENT:
Mayor Joe Carollo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSSION CONCERNING RUMORS OF MARRIOTT HOTEL IN
COCONUT GROVE AREA OF PEACOCK PARK / BAYSHORE DRIVE.
Commissioner Plummer: I have two questions to ask on the record, since I can't do it in private.
Mr. City Manager, are you aware of any conversation or negotiation for a hotel or other structure
from Bayshore to the water between Peacock Park and Kennedy Park?
Mr. Edward Marquez (City Manager): No, sir.
Commissioner Plummer: You know of no discussion, whatsoever, of any facility being built,
other than Merrill Stevens?
Mr. Marquez: Over the course of time, I've talked...
Commissioner Plummer: I'm asking presently.
Mr. Marquez: Well, no.
Commissioner Plummer: There's a rumor out on the streets right now that the City is talking
and negotiating to put a Marriott Hotel next door.
83
June 16, 1997
1•
Mr. Marquez: The City is not negotiating for any hotel in that area.
Commissioner Plummer: Is the City even discussing with anyone?
Mr. Marquez: To the best of my knowledge, no.
Commissioner Plummer: None whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. DISCUSSION CONCERNING POLICE EOC (EMERGENCY OPERATIONS
CENTER) BUILDING -- THEFT PROBLEMS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commissioner Plummer: And just for the Police Department, I wish to put you on notice that
your EOC (Emergency Operations Center) Building that you're moving because of the flood
stage, I'd like a report as to how much was stolen over this weekend, when they went in and
raided the place. So it's out of the flood area, but it's not out of being stolen.
Vice Mayor Regalado: OK. This meeting is adjourned.
THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE CITY
COMMISSION, THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 3:47 P.M.
JOE CAROLLO
MAYOR
ATTEST:
Walter Foeman
CITY CLERK
Maria J. Argudin
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
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84 June 16, 1997