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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1997-04-08 MinutesINDEX MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING April 8, 1997 ITEM SUBJECT LEGISLATION PAGE NO. NO. 1. (A) DISCUSS / REVIEW PROPOSED FIVE M 97-280 2-20 YEAR FINANCIAL RECOVERY PLAN -- 4/8/97 POLICE & FIRE DEPARTMENTS STAFFING REPORTS ( SEE LABEL 1G ) -- OVERSIGHT BOARD AGREES TO CITY LOBBYING LEGISLATURE FOR BED / BEVERAGE TAX. (B) REQUEST EXTENSION FROM OVERSIGHT BOARD TO FIND ALTERNATIVE TO FIRE ASSESSMENT FEE. (C) CONTINUE WORKING ON LEGAL REVIEW TO SEPARATE HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS FROM SERVICE AGENCIES FOR TAX EXEMPTION PURPOSES. (D) REALLOCATE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT FUNDS TO LIGHTING OF FLAGLER STREET PROJECT IN DOWNTOWN. EDISCUSSION BY COMMISSIONERS GARDING OTHER OPTIONS TO FIRE FEE -- APPROVE 45 DAY EXTENSION REQUEST FROM OVERSIGHT BOARD TO EXPLORE OTHER OPTIONS TO FIRE FEE -- COMMISSIONER PLUMMER DISCUSSES COMPROMISE BETWEEN RAISING GARBAGE FEE & FIRE FEE -- MAYOR CAROLLO INSTRUCTS ADMINISTRATION TO PROVIDE PUBLIC INFORMATION TO CITIZENS REGARDING FEES ASSESSMENT ISSUE -- FURTHER MAYOR CAROLLO REQUESTS COMMISSIONERS TO PRESENT THEIR IDEAS ON THIS MATTER INDIVIDUALLY TO CITY MANAGER -- COMMISSIONER GORT SUGGESTS COMMISSIONERS SUBMIT THEIR IDEAS ON FINANCIAL ALTERNATIVES IN WRITING TO CITY MANAGER. (F) BRIEF COMMENTS BY COMMISSIONER PLUMMER CONCERNING MEETINGS OF MARITIME BOARD -- VICE MAYOR REGALADO PROPOSES PLAN TO ASSIGN COMMISSIONERS TO REVIEW / OFFER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR RESTRUCTURING DEPARTMENTS. (G) CLARIFY PURPOSE & FORMAT OF POLICE & FIRE DEPARTMENTS' STAFFING REPORTS. I MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA On the 8th day of April, 1997, the City Commission of Miami, Florida, met at its special meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami, Florida in regular session. The meeting was called to order at 9:19 a.m. by Mayor Joe Carollo with the following members of the Commission found to be present: ALSO PRESENT: Mayor Joe Carollo Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Humberto Hernandez Commissioner Wifredo Gort Edward Marquez, City Manager A. Quinn Jones, III, City Attorney Walter J. Foeman, City Clerk Maria J. Argudin, Assistant City Clerk An invocation was delivered by Commissioner Humberto Hernandez, after which Mayor Carollo led those present in a pledge of allegiance to the flag. 1 April 8, 1997 1. (A) DISCUSS / REVIEW PROPOSED FIVE YEAR FINANCIAL RECOVERY PLAN -- POLICE & FIRE DEPARTMENTS STAFFING REPORTS ( SEE LABEL 1G ) -- OVERSIGHT BOARD AGREES TO CITY LOBBYING LEGISLATURE FOR BED / BEVERAGE TAX. (B) REQUEST EXTENSION FROM OVERSIGHT BOARD TO FIND ALTERNATIVE TO FIRE ASSESSMENT FEE. (C) CONTINUE WORKING ON LEGAL REVIEW TO SEPARATE HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS FROM SERVICE AGENCIES FOR TAX EXEMPTION PURPOSES. (D) REALLOCATE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECT FUNDS TO LIGHTING OF FLAGLER STREET PROJECT IN DOWNTOWN. (E) DISCUSSION BY COMMISSIONERS REGARDING OTHER OPTIONS TO FIRE FEE -- APPROVE 45 DAY EXTENSION REQUEST FROM OVERSIGHT BOARD TO EXPLORE OTHER OPTIONS TO FIRE FEE -- COMMISSIONER PLUMMER DISCUSSES COMPROMISE BETWEEN RAISING GARBAGE FEE & FIRE FEE -- MAYOR CAROLLO INSTRUCTS ADMINISTRATION TO PROVIDE PUBLIC INFORMATION TO CITIZENS REGARDING FEES ASSESSMENT ISSUE -- FURTHER MAYOR CAROLLO REQUESTS COMMISSIONERS TO PRESENT THEIR IDEAS ON THIS MATTER INDIVIDUALLY TO CITY MANAGER -- COMMISSIONER GORT SUGGESTS COMMISSIONERS SUBMIT THEIR IDEAS ON FINANCIAL ALTERNATIVES IN WRITING TO CITY MANAGER. (F) BRIEF COMMENTS BY COMMISSIONER PLUMMER CONCERNING MEETINGS OF MARITIME BOARD -- VICE MAYOR REGALADO PROPOSES PLAN TO ASSIGN COMMISSIONERS TO REVIEW / OFFER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR RESTRUCTURING DEPARTMENTS. (G) CLARIFY PURPOSE & FORMAT OF POLICE & FIRE DEPARTMENTS' STAFFING REPORTS. Mayor Carollo: Mr. Manager, can you begin please? Mr. Edward Marquez (City Manager): Good morning, Mr. Mayor, Commissioners. At the last City Commission meeting when we discussed the five year plan, the City Commission had requested certain information to be generated and to be submitted back to the City Commission. One of the things that the Commission had requested was some level of detail about Fire and Police civilian employees. And, I believe you have a package in front of you on that information. We were also asked to go back and to reassess... well, we were asked to do certain things. One of the things we were asked was to go and... when we met with the State Oversight Board was to seek permission to further on the State level the lobbying of a hotel tax and a food and beverage tax. We met with the State Oversight Board yesterday and that permission was granted to us with no official position of the board attached to those items. However, there was commentary by members of the board saying what they thought about those items but that's not part of the official action. Commissioner Plummer: Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Go ahead. 2 April 8, 1997 Commissioner Plummer: I think you have been around, as I have and probably once or twice during your previous tenure on this Commission. I think that we have to remember that this has been tried before for different reasons and whatever you might want to call it. And, of course, what has always defeated it in the past is the fact that the hotel people who are the ones who are directly responsible for raising those funds say, "Fine, we don't mind an increase in the bed tax, but we want all the money to go to increase more beds." And, you know they make a good, strong argument over that. That, hey you are getting the money from us, then take it and regenerate it. So, I don't have any problem in pursuing and hopefully we will be successful. But, I just wanted to let you know that it's not going to be an easy one, it's going to be a hard fight at best. And, I don't know how much you would really raise out of that over the period of time. So, I am just for the record, stating the facts as I know them. I think I have been to either two or three of those battles to increase, one time to get food and beverage as well. And, the same thing prevails there. Restaurants under 500 capacity, restaurants over... We have been through those scenarios many, many times. So, all I am saying to you is, is at best, it would be an uphill battle if the legislature allows us to do it. Mayor Carollo: Well, I don't disagree with what you are saying Commissioner., but I think we are all in agreement that we have to leave all options open for the future. This is not something that is going to impact on this fiscal yer, probably not even next fiscal year, even if it would pass. But we have to look towards the future at the same time that we are resolving the problems of the present. And we have to leave all options open. The Beach, Surfside, Bal Harbour all charge a penny more than we do on the food and beverage tax. And... Commissioner Plummer: Correct. They do it through their VCA though. That's how they basically do it. --Mayor Carollo: Sure, -but we have to look at all the options that we have. And, this is one of those few taxes that really does not impact at all on the local residence. This is really a tax for tourists, that if you look around the country in most major cities, they pay even more than in _Miami. But, again this is something that we are looking as one of many options towards the future. Commissioner Plummer: Has anybody made a termination if in fact it were to become law how much it would raise? Mayor Carollo: Yes, sir. It would bring in excess of seven million dollars ($7,000,000), as of today. If it ever became law a year and a half from now, we probably would be looking then at close to eight million a year. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Go ahead, Commissioner. Commissioner Gort: I had a conversation this morning with our lobbyist, Mikki Canton, and she is well aware of this, she has been working with this with several of the committees and they believe that there is a way that the State Food and Beverage tax could be amended. Like it... They say it's not easy but if we decide to do so, I am ready to up right away and start working on it. Mr. Marquez: Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, I think everyone is in agreement that it is an uphill fight at the State legislative level. One thing that we can do is tie it to an entity such as we are... there are under Chapter 18. So, it's not a general tax open to all cities and all counties 3 April 8, 1997 throughout the State which would in our opinion diminish the lobbying efforts against it. I just thought... food for thought. Mayor Carollo: Yeah, those are options that we certainly could look at. But, this would be an effort that would require each and every single one of us up here at the dias to lobby for it. To do everything that we can to get it passed. In fact, we will have to recruit some of our colleagues at the County to also help us on this. Mr. Marquez: Exactly. The Commission asked us to revisit the fire assessment fee as to see if there was a way that we can lessen the impact of the fee. Now, one of the things that we have been able to do and it's lessening the impact on the business community, especially the small business community, is through the forgiveness of the fire inspection fee that we currently have on the books. That will in essence bring down the fee for fire assessments to these small businesses by approximately 40 percent. That's an option that will diminish the amounts of money overall that we collect by the City by about one million dollars ($1,000,000) and that can be taken from the projected surplus that we have within the plan. We are not... One of the other things that we are working with right now is... There is a couple other things that we are working on right now and that... and it's for these reasons why we are not asking for a vote on today's meeting on the plan. But, the first item we are working is the legal review of how to disengage the health and... the health care industry from the service agency industry so that we can assess one while not assess the other. There is some debate by our lawyers, the consultants lawyers as to how this is to be accomplished and we are still investigating options on that. I don't... At the moment they are totally linked. Your option is that you can tax everyone including all the tax exempts and have them appear through the assessment program or if you tax... The way we currently have it configured is that we will be assessing governments, educational facilities but then service agencies and health care providers are exempted from the process in all these numbers. So, we still need some more legal work to be conducted on that front. Final item that we have here, is that one of the commitments that we made to the downtown corridor was lighting for the Flagler Street area, and that's been a promise made to the downtown area that we have never funded in the past. So, we are checking into reallocation of a portion of our capital project funds from other City users towards the Flagler Street lighting project to about five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) so we can get moving on that project because that was a commitment to the business community. We are open for any and all questions regarding the plan and any facet of it. And, again I appreciate the amount of detail that you all were given to digest. Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Yes. Vice Mayor Regalado: We have heard the last plan the City Manager regarding the fire fee, now the modified version. And, I am sure that before we have to vote on that issue there will be another plan. It seems that all of us are under pressure to act before the 15th of April because we signed a contract with the State of Florida saying that we have to deliver a five year plan by April the 15th. It seems also that, it's almost guaranteed that this Commission will approve some kind of fire fee. So, the Oversight Board has to be almost sure that this Commission will act in that direction. But, I still believe that there are other options, only it's just that we are fighting the clock right now. And, I would ask this Commission, and if I can do it as a motion, I will do it. And, I'll explain why, to ask the Oversight Board to give us a 45-day extension to present the five year plan. The reason is that this Commission, I am sure that all of us have several ideas that we have not been able to bring to the Manager or to this Commission regarding the possibility of either restructuring our government or getting more revenues from other sources. The Mayor asked recently for a 30-day extension on the negotiation for the Maritime Park and this Commission granted it. So, I believe that it would only be sensible to ask the 4 April 8, 1997 Oversight Board for an extension. We have a collateral, we have the fire fee. What we are asking the Oversight Board, is a loan. Give us some more time to bring to this Commission and to the Manager other ideas who could maybe, just maybe, eventually, substitute the fire fee. For all these days we have been listening and reading about spreading the pain, about minimizing the impact on businesses, on people. But, we are still going to inflict some pain on some people and some businesses. The Oversight Board, especially Lieutenant Governor Buddy McKay, who was the person, the point man for the Governor under the reorganization of HRS (Health and Rehabilitation Services), understands very well the extraordinary circumstances in which we are and will be in the next three or four months. We have to look at the whole picture and not only at the picture of the Miami finance. We have to look at the fact that thousands of people are going to be impacted in the City of Miami come this summer. That because of that there will be domino effect on the little, small businesses in our area. We talking about more than twenty million dollars ($20,000,000) in food stamps that will not go to the small businesses. We are talking also about many checks that will not be sent to thousands of people in the City of Miami, in the whole Dade County, but especially in the City of Miami. I remind this Commission, and you all know that because you know this City very well, all of you, that public housing has several thousand apartments within the City of Miami. And, in those public housing buildings there is going to be many people who will not get their checks come August the 1st, who are not getting the food stamps since April the 1st. The other day I was in a line in a supermarket and there was an old lady that was talking to a friend, another old lady. And she said, "Well, you know the time has come like every year that we will not be able to eat meat every day of the week because we have to use the air-conditioning in our apartment. And, I told Ramon just switch it on for one hour or two hours so we can cool our apartment. And I am wondering if that lady who does not live, by the way, in a public housing building but in an apartment building owned by a private enterprise, if she gets a raise of ten dollars ($10) a month, ten dollars ($10), that we spend on a movie every week, would she be able to buy meat once a month or twice a month, You know, we have a banker in the Oversight Committee. I am sure that if we tell the banker that we have a collateral, the fire fee, he will give us a loan. We have two women in the Oversight Board, if we tell Cynthia, if we tell Maria Camila, that... because they know, they are persons that know how people are hurting in this community. Do you want us to inflict a little pain, not a big pain because they want us to spread the pain around the City of Miami. Do you want us to inflict a little pain on some people that will have to pay maybe ten dollars ($10) more a month in an apartment building? Do we want, we will ask Mr. Beatty and who will ask Mr. Henriquez, who by the way yesterday defended the small businesses in the Oversight meeting. Do we want to have a sign in front of a small market in Allapattah or Wynwood or Little Havana that it says, a sign that will say "Closed, because we were killed by friendly fire." Do we want that? I think that we have ways to come up with some ideas. And the only thing that we are asking is some time. We are responsible people, we have a collateral. They are responsible people, they do not want to inflict pain or spread the pain throughout the City of Miami. I don't think that they would die because we are asking for 45 days more to come up with some ideas. I don't think that the Governor will be upset. I mean, he walked through the State of Florida. I was there, I followed him many years ago when he was "Walking Lawton," talking to the people. I wish he would come here now and talk to the people of Miami and he will see how difficult is the situation now. Yes, there are no problems in Jacksonville because of the Welfare Reform Bill or the immigration bill, there are no problems in Orlando. As a matter of fact, there are no problems anywhere but in Dade County. And in Dade County and the City of Miami would be the most impacted. So, I really believe that we can bring to this table some other options. Yes, we have the fire fee, it will be great to go ahead and vote and decide that we have just finalized the budget and that we can move on to build grandiose events and different projects in the City of Miami but, the trail that we are going to leave is not a good one. In the military language they call it, "marginal casualties" because when they attack a military outpost and kill some civilians they call it marginal casualties. So, my plea to this Commission is, let's ask the Oversight for a little more time. Give us a little time to have some ideas brought to this table. Yes, we do have the fire fee, and yes everybody knows how I feel about it. But, it doesn't matter. If we cannot 5 April 8, 1997 come up with some new ideas, I will be the one that will go ahead and vote for the fire tee if that is the only option to save the City of Miami. But, frankly, I don't think that people in the City of Miami would want us to save a City that then will hate us for imposing some pain, little or big pain. So, I don't know if we can do it, Mr. Mayor, but I would really like to introduce a motion to ask the Oversight Board for more time. I would really like to go before the Oversight Board and ask them one by one if they will not give us a little more time. If they don't give us a loan, that all what we want. We have a collateral, we are ready to act. But, I think, I believe that all the members of this Commission do not want to inflict little pain, as little as it would be in the City of Miami. So, I think that if we have a little time, we can bring some new ideas to this table. Mayor Carollo: Mr. Manager, when does the Oversight Board meet again? Mr. Marquez: They meet again on the 21st. Mayor Carollo: On the 21st. OK. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, let me ask the Manager a couple more questions. This Commission by law whether we had an Oversight Board or not, has to come with a balanced budget proposal by what date before the ending of this fiscal year? Mr. Marquez: The City Manager must present to the City Commission a proposed budget document in the July 1st time frame. And, then the City Commission must take public hearings in the month of September for the ensuing fiscal year. Mayor Carollo: By what date do we have to come up with a balanced budget according to State Law? I just want to get it on the record. Mr. Marquez: Under the State Law, a balanced budget must be adopted by the City Commission for the ensuing fiscal year during the month of September. Mayor Carollo: OK. Before the month of September? Commissioner Plummer: Effective October 1. Mr. Marquez: Effective October 1. Mayor Carollo: OK, effective October 1. That's what I want to get on the record, that we have less than five months, whether we have an Oversight Board or not, to come up with the numbers that we need to have a balanced budget for next fiscal year. We, and this is important to clarify this because people can get confused. This Commission has been able to do what no one thought that we could do, and that was to balance the budget for this fiscal year. We will end September the 30th with a balanced budget in the City of Miami. And that, ladies and gentlemen has been no easy task. All of us up here and management, together with the employees of this City have worked hand in hand, and it has not been an easy task. I do not know of any major City in the country that has been able to do what we have. Twenty-five percent of our budget was the deficit that we were facing. We were able to somehow, with the work, the sweat of a lot of people to do that. For instance, for those that are saying out there, and I can only think of two people that are saying this, Mr. Suarez and Mr. Odio, that there is no deficit. If there is no deficit then why did the Miami Sports and Exhibition Authority have to give in U.S. currency, not confederate money, eighteen million eight hundred and fifty-two thousand two hundred and eleven dollars and twenty-four cents ($18,852,211.24) almost nineteen million dollars 6 April 8, 1997 4 ... ;a ($19,000,000) to the City of Miami, this year? That in part, has been what has helped this City balance is books for this year. Together with the concessions with the employees of this City have given, the concessions that the pension boards have given, the concessions that have come across the board, plus many, many new ideas that have come forth from this Commission to bring in new dollars to this City. But, we cannot keep creating a stream of revenue. We are at the ending of what we could do. And, for next fiscal year, for the recurring deficit that we are carrying of approximately some forty-eight million dollars ($48,000,000), give or take a few million dollars either way, we have to address it. We have approximately sixteen million dollars ($16,000,000) that we are still short for the next fiscal year beginning October 1st. And, I do not see how this Commission is going to come up with any additional new ideas, whether it is a week and a half or four months or five months that can bring a total of some sixteen million dollars ($16,000,000) of additional dollars either in cuts or in new revenues to the City of Miami. Can we do it, maybe in the next year, year and a halt? There is a possibility. We have many ideas including one that was discussed earlier in this meeting. There is a possibility. But, can be do it in less than five months? I think it's impossible to do it in less than five months to bring in enough recurring revenues or cuts beyond the ones that we have made. Why do I say that in the future, in the next year and a half or so, we very likely might be in a position to bring in new dollars? That's because we have a lot of things that are being planned, are being looked at to bring in the new recurring revenues. We have many lands that we are looking to develop. We have many other projects that we are working to try to accomplish to bring the recurring revenue. But, it's not going to happen overnight. And, if we are going to be in the same position next month or four months from now, or five months from now, that we are today, I rather bite the bullet now and get it over and done with. Nobody likes to raise fees, nobody likes to raise taxes. Everybody likes to be the good guy. You know, everybody likes to be popular but, unfortunately sometimes the price of leadership is to take the positions that are the hard positions. The positions that might open you up to have demagogs take cheap shots at you when they know that you have no choice. We are basically between the rock and the hard place right now. If the City of Miami is going to move forward in a positive way, we are going to have to make some tough decisions. Out of all the decisions that we have had at our disposal to make that are the difficult ones, I think the ones that we are studying, that we are getting there, we are almost there. I think the ones that we have before us are the ones that will have the least impact on our residents than others that we can take. I for one am not going to mince any words. I am willing to bite the bullet, so Chief you could pass five of them around here so that any time that a majority of us are ready we could bite into it. I am willing to bite the bullet and make the tough decision that we have to make for the sake of this City. If there is one thing that I do remember from my American history is that at times of crises the American people are always willing to pull together as long as the people are told the truth. And, we have been telling the people of this City the truth. We are going to keep telling them the truth and we are going to have to make the tough decisions to make sure that the City of Miami will be around to have what I believe is what the City of Miami is destined to be, and that is, one of the major American cities in the next century and one of the key cities in the world in the next century. But, we are going to have to make some tough decisions. Somehow, we have been able to get by this fiscal year without making the tough decisions. At times, some of us up here, some of us down there, didn't think it that it could be done without making the tough decisions. We were able to do it in this fiscal year, but for next fiscal year, there are going to be tough decisions to make. And, the one that is going to have the least impact, that we are still fine tuning, is the one that we have before us, here today. If, once we make this decision, if a majority of us is in favor of it, if there are some out there that are going to accuse me of having raised fees to the commercial properties, to the industrial properties, that I am against the business establishment of Miami, then so be it. The business people know this is not true. The business people know that we have a tough situation. They don't like what they are facing, I don't like what we are facing, none of us do. But, we have to make a decision. Now, that doesn't mean that if down the road we put together some of the plans that we are working on now, and we have new sources of revenue coming in, that we can't then go back to the Oversight Board and say, OK, we are going to propose to you that we 7 April 8, 1997 are going to take back part of this fire fee or all the fire fee, if we can produce and show them that we have concrete new recurring revenue. But, and I think that's the collateral that my colleague was talking about. But, that collateral has to be put up front. Now, if Commissioner Regalado or any individual Commissioner would like to speak to the Oversight Board. Unfortunately, they don't meet until 21st and we have to make the decision by the 14th or the 15th. What I will suggest is, each individual Commissioner can call the five members of the Oversight Board and speak to them individually and if the Oversight Board wants to extend some time, let them try to talk to them individually and see if they will be willing to. But, whether they extend the time 30 days or more, I do not see that in such a short time we are going to be in any different of a position that we are in now. And, frankly the Maritime Park was named whether we would have assigned a contract on the Maritime Park deal today or tomorrow, it's not going to make a difference in the decision that we have before us today. That's not going to bring us sufficient dollars to make a difference. Commissioner Gort. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, let me tell you. I would like to second the motion and I'll explain the reasons why. We are talking about the... This is a problem that took a long time to be developed and we are expected to fix it within six or seven months. I think that staff is being overworked. I think we are trying to do as much as we can as quick as we can. And sometimes, because of time, we can make a decision, that it looks very good right now, but the long term effect can be very negative. And, I don't mind biting the bullet. I have done it before and I'll do it again. What I would like to do, if possible, is buy some time and see if some of the things that we have been working on can come aboard and then the fee could be a little less. And, let me tell you why. When it was explained to me about this fee, one of the reasons I told them I would like to look at it, because I looked at it, that for the first time, people that never paid taxes were going to be able to pay for services they receive. If you check with our fire fighters, our rescue serve probably a lot more percentage... the highest percentage goes to the non -profits public housing. That's where the most need are, that where the service... they are not paying for it. I told them if we could go ahead and put it all across, I will not have any problem with. At the same time, if we can get some of the things, deals that we are working on, if they can come in, like the park and the Maritime, we might be able to reduce. Because, the biggest problem that we have, Mr. Mayor is, is we talk about big business, they can afford it. But, the problem is, for the first time something is beginning to happen with the big office building. If you look at the building permits that have been pulled within the City of Miami for office, it's not been there. Now that provides jobs, provides revenues and provides a lot of things. We have projections, my understanding is, three point two billion dollars ($3,200,000,000), new construction, just in Brickell and... And, this type of tax, when you compare it with what is being paid in Coral Gables, which is right across the street from us, what a person will pay for rent in Coral Gables or by the lake, or in West Dade compared to downtown, it's become very competitive. And, this is the problem that I have. If we start losing some of the revenues in those apartments, in those office buildings, a lot of the people who were willing to build there, rather than build there, they are going to try to build some other place where they think the feasibility rent is a lot better. That's the reason why I would like to do... second this motion and see if like you said, they don't meet until the 21st, maybe individually we can go ahead and meet with them, we might be able to get some of the projects aboard and reduce some of the fees that needs to come aboard. Mayor Carollo: Well, Commissioner, let me say the following. I really don't think this needs to be done in the form of a motion. As I said, they don't meet until the 21st, so it's going to have to be the individual members contacting individual members of the Oversight Board. But, once they say no, then we are back into the same situation again. So, what I will suggest is, that the individual members of the Commission try to contact between today and tomorrow, the members of the Oversight Board. And, this is something that we can discuss again on the meeting of the loth, depending on what answers they give you. But, I just want to be very, very clear that I have spend the time that, the few up here has spent going over all kinds of different ways, and it's just not there for us in a period of less than five months to find an additional sixteen million 8 April 8, 1997 plus dollars of recurring revenue unless we make some tough decisions. It's not there. I wish it could be. I mean, I wish that we would have the second miracle in man's history where mannea would fall again from heaven and we could all be happy. But, it's not going to happen. That happened once in mankind's history, it's hasn't happened again, nor will it happen again. Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner. Vice Mayor Regalado: If I just add something. I guess that in the past all the members of this Commission have bitten the bullet and we are willing to do that. But, what I am asking is for an official position of this Commission to go before the Oversight. And, if we meet on an emergency basis, they can also meet on an emergency basis. After all, they are here. Mayor Carollo: And what I am saying Commissioner is, that each of us individually, those that feel that we need that extension for 30 days, can contact the Oversight Board individually. Vice Mayor Regalado: I will do that. But, the thing that I want to add, is that the people of Miami are looking to us to bite our bullet, not their bullet. And, frankly the people of Miami probably would not have been able to convey the messages very clear. The people of Miami believe that the City government has not taken any action to restructure the government. That we have the same salaries, that we have the same numbers of officials, that everything is the same as it was before when things were wrong. And my proposal is give us some work. Give us some department to each of the members of the Commission and let us look into those departments. We are not experts, but at least we have common sense. We all have to balance -- our checkbooks. We all have to live on a salary, so give us the opportunity. Let's look into the -.different departments. The Manager has not been able to do that., He will do it. But, he cannot do it now, because he has to work on this plan and on the budget. So, give us some departments of the City of Miami to look into them to see if we can save some pennies. I mean, a penny that we save is a penny that we won't impose on the poor people. If we can save ten pennies, that will be ten pennies less that some people would not have to pay. So, all I am asking is for the Oversight Board to understand that we are willing to bite the bullet. But, also for the people of Miami that we are willing to bite our bullet, which we have not done so, or, at least the people of Miami don't think so. And, you know, sometimes perception is greater than reality. So, I would ask to have a motion because I think that we can call on the Oversight Board and they can meet. I am sure that they are willing to listen to us and have them listen to what we have to say, asking for more time so that we can bring back some ideas. If we fail, well then, we still have the collateral, and I guess that then we are going to have to bite their bullet, the people's bullet. But after that we show that we at least tried to bite our bullet in the City government. Mayor Carollo: Well, the bottom line, Commissioner is, it's fine and dandy to say that we can do this, we can that. But, if we can't do this or we can't do that, then we better do something. And, what I again, would like to suggest to all my colleagues, that whatever changes you do not agree with in this five year plan, feel free to say you don't want it, you want to change it. But, bring something back that can show line item where you are going to find the new revenue to balance our budget. If we don't want to vote for anything in the five year plan, that's fine. Just substitute it with clear line item new sources of revenues. And, that's all that I am asking very simply. If you don't want a fire fee that is not going to impact on the majority of the residents of this community that is really going to impact on the non -profits that haven't been paying their share, that is going to impact more on the business establishment. If you don't want that, fine. But, bring back to this Commission line item, not rhetoric, not we'll take it from here, we'll take it from there. Line item. Where are the dollars are going to come then for us to balance the budget. It's very simple for us to do. 9 April 8, 1997 a Commissioner Hernandez: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Hernandez. Commissioner Hernandez: I, as well as all of you have been meeting with a lot of commercial as well as residential landowners and tenants. And, even though I think a little more time will not hurt anyone, probably some other creative ideas will come up every time the administration has been asked to go back, they have come back with different ideas and they have addressed many of our concerns. One of them being the situation with the small commercial businessowners. The bottom line is that I agree with you. It's time to act. I think we have to make a decision by the 14th. It comes down to several alternatives, one is the increasing Solid Waste Fees. The other one is the increasing property taxes, cutting Police and Fire, which I don't think any of us want to do, and I don't think we have the luxury to do. And, the fourth alternative is this Fire Assessment Fee. In studying all four of these alternatives, and sitting down with all these people, and I have been in the past few weeks. Without a doubt, I think the Fire Assessment Fee in my option is the one that obviously spreads the less pain in this community with our residents as well as... residential as well as commercial. I am willing at this point in time already to make a decision on which way we go. Even though I know we are not ready as a Commission to vote today. I am, and I agree with your sentiments, ready to bite the bullet. I just think asking the Oversight Board for a little more time will not hurt anyone. What I am seeking really is, and again I reiterate that I am ready to vote, is that maybe just a little more time. And, I agree with you, financially we are not going to be in any different position. There are not too many other alternatives other than the four that I have mentioned. Is that, we might be able to better this proposal just a little bit more. I think we have come down to the nitty gritty on the Fire Assessment Fee. I think the administration has done what it's been asked to do. I think they have come to the point that either we take it as is or we don't do it all because the bottom line I think is, we are down to thirteen million dollars ($13,000,000). And, if we keep on cutting it, we might as well not even do a Fire Assessment Fee. Mayor Carollo: Quite true, Commissioner. Not only that, but let's put things in perspective. If this Commission takes no action, what is going to happen is that by the contract that we have and the right that the State of Florida originally had in Chapter 218, they are going to make the decision for us. And, I assure you that the final decision they make is going to be a lot more hurtful than anything that we can do up here as far as the decisions that we are looking over in making. Unfortunately, for next fiscal year, there is going to be some pain. However, I would rather make a decision up here that is going to spread the least amount of pain than let the Oversight Board, let the State of Florida make a decision that is going to go much deeper than anything that we would do up here. And, I am willing to pay the price of having certain individuals attack us, to go on radio to say there is no deficit, that we have created this, that this is all a creation, that I or the Commission have made. But, we all know what the realities are. And, as I said before, I truly believe that as long as the American people are told the truth, they will accept it and do what's right. I think that if there is one mistake that this City has made is, and Mr. Manager and Mr. Gimenez, I want you to hear this one. If there is one mistake that we have made is that this Commission, unfortunately, because we have been so busy putting all our efforts in finding the dollars so that we would not have a deficit, we have not gone as a City to public radio to television and presented our side of the story, presented the real truth to the public and that's one of the things that we are going to have to do. We cannot let a handful of demagogs go out there and lie without it not being answered. And, the City of Miami has an obligation to tell the people the truth of what is the real situation that we have before us. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, I have been doing that. I have been going to the stations and I have been telling the people that there is a deficit, that we do have a crisis. And, let me tell you something. I think we all here appreciate what staff, what the unions and the work that you have put into it. Because, I think you have put... You are going beyond the call of duty to put this... 10 April 8, 1997 And, I'll tell you, on the 14th I will be ready to bite the bullet and make a decision if we don't get an extension. All I am trying to do is to make it as best if possible. If we do not get an extension, I am telling you, I am ready to vote on the 14th. What I would like to do Mr. Mayor is, I would like to have a little more time to work it out and let me tell you, somehow I would like to see if we can find it, we can go after those nonprofit that utilizes our services constantly. Two weeks ago, on my way home there was 12... Or three weeks ago 12 police cars at Jackson Memorial Hospital because of something that had taken place in there. And, we had over 15 police officers providing services to the County. And, all we are getting from the County right now is one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) a month, a year. All I am asking is, if we can buy some time it's fine. If not, I'll be ready to bite the bullet and make the decision. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner... Commissioner Gort: I know you have done the most. That's all I am asking for. Mayor Carollo: As Commissioner Hernandez said, to wait a little more time is not going to hurt anything. If the individual Commissioners would like to approach the members of the Oversight Board and request an extension, I see no harm in doing that. L. as I said, I don't believe it's going to change anything. And, yes, in five months we could find a few more dollars here and there, that we will. A million here a million there. But, we are not going to find sixteen plus million dollars, and that's the point that I am making. That's going to take a little more time for us to do that. However, for the purpose of trying to get as many members of the Commission to vote together on this because I think that's important. I think it's important that we try to speak as one voice. We have done it up to now and I hope that we could still do it and finish this financial crisis as one voice. So, for that reason, I will be willing to endorse and support the request of two members of this Commission, that they be given the opportunity to speak to the --members of the Oversight Board.' - Vice Mayor Regalado: Can we do it as a motion, Mr. Mayor? Commissioner Plummer: I will voice my opinion. I seriously doubt... I'll vote for the motion. I seriously doubt that the Oversight Board is going to grant the extension. I have said from the first day of the Oversight Board and I will continue to say that this scenario is a total failure. The reason that I say that is, two entities operating in a vacuum. I cannot conceive, I will never conceive how we are helping each other when we meet independently and are not conveying back and forth to each other. Negotiations are an adversary position at best, and as far as I know, I have not been invited as a Commissioner, a voting member of this Commission to sit with the Oversight Board. They go over there and they do their thing and we read about it. And, we sit here and we do our thing and they read about it. And, then, you know, makes for great headlines of everything of the derogatory nature that said, "Well, that guy is crazy or this guy is out of his mind." But, yet, I don't understand how this thing has gone along in a vacuum, which it is, that we are not sitting at the same table with the Oversight Board saying back and forth, "Do you like this or you don't. Do you like this or you don't." Well wait ten days and we will go back to the Oversight Board and then ten days it will come back to the City Commission, six months isn't enough time, OK? I have said that from day one, I will continue to say it. And until the day comes with this Commission and its staff sit in the same room at the same table with the Oversight Board and their staff, this is game playing. This is game playing. Now, I'll ask a question because I don't know, because I haven't been to their meetings. Has anybody understood that on the 15th, which they have the power to do, if we don't act, to act on our behalf, have we seen their game plan? Has anybody seen their fame plan, what they are going to do, if we don't? I haven't seen it. And, if somebody knows about it, nobody is telling me as a voting member of this City Commission, Now... Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, if I may? 11 April 8, 1997 Commissioner Plummer: Sure. Mayor Carollo: I don't think we need to ask them for a game plan if we don't take action, what theirs is going to be. 1 think it's going to be quite clear that theirs is going to be drastic. Commissioner Plummer: It's going to be what? Mayor Carollo: Drastic. Theirs is going to be a very strong solution to this problem. Because they are going to look at it that not only do we need to solve the problem but that we need to have even more of a reserve. So, they are going to be coming with a double barrel shotgun. Commissioner Plummer: Well, you know, if they said that to me, not thinking what they may or may not do, then I would think maybe differently, OK? Who knows? They might come with a plan I might find acceptable, but I don't know that because we are operating in a void. And, I don't understand where. Now, let me get to the problem at hand. We sent back to the administration and said that the plan proposed a week ago was unacceptable. Unless I am wrong, the only modification to that plan equates to about one million dollars ($1,000,000). One million dollars ($1,000,000). Mayor Carollo: I think it's more than that, Commissioner for... but... Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, that's what I was told and if I was told wrong, then I'll accept the correction whatever it may be. Out of thirty-one million, one million was dropped. Now, I think somewhere along the line as Commissioner Hernandez said, there are a number of issues and we have to choose which is the less odious. But, I think that there can be a balancing -:act. I think there can be a compromise. Some Commissioners up here agreed to a garbage tax, others didn't. Some Commissioners up here agreed to the fire tax, some Commissioners don't. Has anybody given any serious thought to a compromise? Bring down the fire fee on the top end, maybe come up a little bit, not double the fee on the garbage tax to come with a compromise. As we say here, spread the pain completely around and try to make it as minimal all the way around as we can. I think that that's worth pursuing. But, not a one shot deal in one week to come back with a million dollar ($1,000,000) deduction. So, in my estimation, we are doing a lot of talking, OK? A lot of talking. I remember three months ago, we did a lot of talking about fees. They are yet to be implemented. Everybody has got an excuse, but it's not happening. I will vote with the motion for the extension of time. I seriously doubt... If I was sitting in the Oversight Board I would vote for it. But, if it is, it gives us a little breathing room to try to come up with something else. To me, the ultimate answer is we have got to do more cutting. We have got to do more cutting, because that, as Commissioner Regalado said, the perception of the public, they don't see where we have cut. They don't know and understand that the unions have given in twenty-five million dollars ($25,000,000). They don't understand that, OK? So, I am saying to you, I think that the bottom line eventually is going to have to be, that there is going to have to be compromise. My father always said, "It was a mean man who wouldn't compromise." So, all I am saying is I'll vote with the motion that's on the floor and those are my thoughts. Mayor Carollo: Any statements that the administration would like to make since all five of us have spoken already? Mr. Marquez: There are a few things. First of all, a lot of what Commissioner Plummer had said about not being at the same table at the same time, has a lot of merit. That, however, was a structure format that was basically handed to us, and we have been proceeding accordingly since day one. The State Oversight Board has planned to ask for a joint meeting after the 15th so that they can discuss whatever nuances that the City Commission wants to put into the five year plan 12 April 8, 1997 that it approves. The... on the issue of whether or not the Oversight Board will grant time. Having dealt with them extensively, I would he surprised if they do grant extra time because they have always been, you know, "This is time table that you are on, you must meet it or else we are going to take action." They may grant a week or so, but, I will be surprised if they do. On the issue of, what would the Oversight Board do? I wholeheartedly agree with the Mayor, that the Oversight Board's actions would be much more drastic in nature. I mean there is the business, the sentiment as expressed in their comments over time would be that business operations of the City or operations that can be deemed to be business operations of the City ought to be fully funded by their own revenue streams. So, that would... they would push for, you know, the Solid Waste tee across the board. They would also push for other tees and charges and more reserves and the like. The methodology that we have used in this plan was an attempt not to hit back the public and to spread the pain around. And again, the whole idea of the perception being out there that we haven't done much, I wholeheartedly agree that we have to go out there and as an administration, and I would request each individual Commissioner at the same time talking about the things that the City Commission has done, because we have turned things around. There has been, you know, thirty-two million dollars ($32,000,000) worth of employee give backs, in one form or fashion to this plan. There have been forty million dollars ($40,000,000) worth of revenue enhancements just to balance off this year's budget. So, those are my comments, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: See, but Mr. Manager, what I meant to say before, is that the City administration, individual Commissioners have gone out a few times and as a group we have gone to the airways very little. Because, all of us are also very busy in resolving the City's problems and have our own individual lives to lead. But, the administration is the one that is upmost responsible to do this. I don't know of any mayor City in the country, except the City of Miami, that does not have Public Information offices for the City, that goes out and informs the residents of what is going on in their government. And, maybe the reason we didn't have one in the past, because the former Manager was the one that would go out and talk to the public and we all know what the outcome of all that was. That's not the way of doing it. But, we need to identify those people that we have on staff that can represent this City's point of view in the best manner possible. Those are the most articulate. And send them out to let the public know the real truth, what is happening in the City. And to let them know what we have been able to accomplish. That's very important to do. I know that we have had very little time to do anything else, but to try to balance the books. But, we are at a crossroads that we must do that, Mr. Manager. Having said all this, before we bring this question to a vote, I would again like to ask my colleagues or for that matter anybody in the public, that if they have any concrete ideas, solutions that this City Commission can listen to, to bring them to us, but it's got to be line item. Show us exactly where we can bring new revenue sources to the City of Miami in the next five months. Commissioner Plummer: Let me ask a question. Does the Oversight Board look at cuts as the same as revenue? Commissioner Gort: Yes. Mayor Carollo: Yes, sir... cuts, if you can show sound cuts, that's like new revenue coming in. Commissioner Plummer: Then, let me tell you where I am at. I am ready to ask the administration to stay up all night and every department head come back to this City Commission as soon as possible with a ten percent across the board. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, we did that before and... Commissioner Plummer: Well... 13 April 8, 1997 Mayor Carollo: ... that was not realistical. Commissioner Plummer: It's not realistic? Mayor Carollo: We are not going to lay off police officers. Commissioner Plummer: No, not necessarily. Mayor Carollo: We are not going to lay off fire fighters. Commissioner Plummer: Wait, woo. You see, that's where Commissioner Regalado made some good sense, all right? We allowed the department head to make the decision for us. We have to vote. And, we have to know, that no, it's not laying off the police officers, it's something else. We have to know that it's one day garbage pick up instead of two. We have to know that the park playground is opened or closed. And, that's where you have the administration who comes up here and presents us with a plan that says do or die. Well, that's not acceptable to this Commission. Mayor Carollo: Mr. Manager, didn't you have that done before already, in five and ten and fifteen percent increments? Commissioner Plummer: Did you see it, I didn't? Mr. Marquez: It was... ,,--Mayor Carollo: That was presented given to the Commission before. Mr. Marquez: We presented it to the full Commission at the time the 15 percent... up to 15 percent cuts for the departments. We have also conducted many budget hearings during this process. Also, the State Oversight Board, yes it is true, they treat department... expenditure cuts the same as revenue enhancements. But, at the same time, they are pointing to us to make sure that we are operating the City in a businesslike fashion. So, it's a double edged sword here. I mean, they are asking for one or the other but, they are telling us that the status quo is not acceptable. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager and private business, you don't spend money you don't have, OK? You don't do that. Now, all I am saying to you is, is that I guarantee you there are areas that you can find cuts. And, I am not talking about everybody that wants to panic and say "don't lay off policemen." It could be done without laying off policemen, OK. You can reduce the amount of garbage pickup. You can do, do, do things, something has got to give. And, as the Mayor has said, there is only so many areas that you can explore to increase revenue. Yet, when the public looks at the perception, we are not making sufficient enough cuts. And, you know, somewhere in between, there has got to be a balance. Has anybody considered, just for the sake of considering, not doubling the garbage fee but, and I am just using these numbers and I would have to sit down with a calculator. Raising the garbage fee by 20 percent and lowering the fire percent by 20 percent. Maybe, that might be acceptable. Maybe, it's not. Mayor Carollo: Well, Commissioner... Commissioner Plummer: But, I think you have got to come to a compromise. Mayor Carollo: That is fine if that is what you want to do, down the line. But, my position is going to be that, as one member of this board, that by doing that, the only thing that we are going 14 April 8, 1997 to be doing is hurting even more people, unfortunately. The business community for a short time is going to have to take the brunt of this. The nonprofits are going to have to come in and pay their share. Commissioner Plummer: But, they are not. Mayor Carollo: And, by us going into the garbage fee again, what we are doing is hitting the residents even harder. Commissioner Plummer: Well, you see, that's the problem. The nonprofit, according to Carlos yesterday. For example, Mercy Hospital will be exempt, they are not going to pay. Mayor Carollo: No, no, no. I don't agree with that. If you read what the Manager said... Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me, then somebody tell me... Mayor Carollo: What the Manager said is, they are still looking at the final solution. Commissioner Plummer: That's not what I was told, OK. You are looking at the nonprofits and, God knows the profit -making corporations should be paying taxes and they are not. OK? But you are looking at the idea that you have so many of these things that are out there, you know, as Carlos said, it's like six hundred thousand dollars ($600,000) if we lose those. Something has got to give. Commissioner Gort: J.L., let me give you some suggestions. Commissioner Plummer: Go. Commissioner Gort: And, I think the Mayor stated it. Everyone of us has certain ideas... Commissioner Plummer: Sure. Commissioner Gort: Let's sit down with the administration, let's work on them. Commissioner Plummer: That's what we are here for today. Commissioner Gort: There are a couple of things I want to sit down them and talk over and see if we can solve this. Mr. Marquez: Mr. Mayor, may I suggest that as these ideas come down that either they come... Commissioner Plummer: There is a lot of areas. Mr. Marquez: ... into writing into my office or we help each individual Commissioner to write out the ideas so that we can take it in writing, in written form to the other Commissioners, you know, through the Manager's office, so that we don't break anything in the Sunshine? Mayor Carollo: That's fine, Mr. Manager. I call the question. All in favor of the motion in hand, signify... Commissioner Plummer: Wait, wait, hold on a second. Mr. A. Quinn Jones, III, Esq. (City Attorney): Mr. Mayor, do you want to define the length of the extension or you just want to leave it at extension? 15 April S, 1997 Vice Mayor Regalado: Forty-five days. Mayor Carollo: The maker of the motion stated 45 days. Commissioner Plummer: The only question I have, the maker of the motion, I don't know if he included it in the motion, made something about each Commissioner looking into deeply into two departments, is that part of your motion? Mayor Carollo: That's not part of the motion, Commissioner. Those are two separate, two separate items. Commissioner Plummer: I am just asking. Mayor Carollo: We could discuss that on Thursday's meeting, if you like. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Call the roll on the first one. The following motion was introduced by Vice Mayor Regalado, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 97-280 A MOTION REQUESTING THE STATE OF FLORIDA FINANCIAL EMERGENCY OVERSIGHT BOARD TO GRANT THE CITY OF MIAMI A 45 DAY EXTENSION (FROM APRIL 15, 1997 TO MAY 30, 1997) TO PRESENT ITS FIVE-YEAR FINANCIAL RECOVERY PLAN IN ORDER THAT THE CITY OF MIAMI MAY ATTEMPT TO FIND OTHER OPTIONS TO THE PROPOSED FIRE ASSESSMENT FEE. Upon being seconded by Commissioner Gort, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Wifredo Gort Commissioner Humberto Hernandez Vice Mayor Tomas Regalado Mayor Joe Carollo NAYS: None. ABSENT: None. COMMENTS MADE DURING ROLL CALL: Commissioner Plummer: Not that I think it's going to accomplish or it will pass at the Oversight, I will vote, yes. COMMENTS MADE AFTER ROLL CALL: Mayor Carollo: Any further business that you need to bring before this body, Mr. Manager? Mr. Marquez: No, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Have we started? 16 April 8, 1997 Vice Mayor Regalado: Can we... ? Mr. Mayor, you said that we will discuss the Commissioners looking into departments, next Thursday? Mayor Carollo: Mr. Manager... Mr. Commissioner, we will bring that back on Thursday, so we could discuss it in more detail then. Commissioner Plummer: Joe, the time is running short. Now, you know, hey, we have got a full plate for Thursday. And, I don't know that we would have time to address other issues. If we do, I haven't seen the agenda for Thursday. Mayor Carollo: J.L., look. What is there to discuss on this? For each of us to handle one department and look at it. You know, what I would suggest is, that you all send to the Manager, but Quinn is going to say that we can't do it that way, because of the interpretation of the Sunshine law. Commissioner Plummer: Yeah, but you see... Joe... Mayor Carollo: Therefore, maybe, if you all like, you could let me know what department each of you would like to look at and I'll be happy to name each and every one of you to whatever department you would like to look at. But, that is still not going to change what we have before us today. This is for the future. Commissioner Plummer: Let met disagree with you. Mayor Carollo: You know, we could go around and around and around this whole issue, but it's not going to hide the fact that we have got to make a decision and make a decision soon. Commissioner Plummer: Let me disagree with you to this extent, you know, and I hate to harp on the fact of the FEC (Federal East Coast) property. But, you know, you and I were assigned to be on that Maritime board, OK? They are sitting down there talking about what they are doing, the architectural, about the dollars and everything. And, unless you have been invited to a meeting, I haven't. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, they could talk all they want. Commissioner Plummer: No, but I am not speaking to the sale. Joe... Mayor Carollo: But, you know, they can't do anything with that property unless we vote to do it. Commissioner Plummer: I am not speaking to the sale or to the lease. I am speaking to the fact that we are talking in realms that they are out there doing what they want to do. Now, my point is very simple. The Manager has gone through and looked at budgets to try to make cuts, but, the Manager doesn't vote. We vote. The Manager makes a proposal to us, that we agree or disagree and at this point, I think we are in disagreement. Now, we might make different assumptions because there are five independent thinkers up here as to what could be cut in the Police Department, what would be cut in the Playground Department and what others could be cut and differ in our effect from the Manager's recommendation. That just might come out with a compromise to this Commission. The bottom line, whether we like it or not, in some way, shape or form, to get votes up here is going to have to be a compromise, because we all have our own different ideas. So, let's leave it this way. If you want to break up today, that's fine with me. I had set aside the day. 17 April 8, 1997 a Mayor Carollo: What I would suggest, that each member of the Commission can think it through by Thursday what departments they would like to have more of an input on and oversee to make recommendations on. And Thursday, let me know and I will make the assignments. Vice Mayor Regalado: Mr. Mayor, if I may? Maybe, some members of the Commission would want the same department. So, I would suggest that because we don't have to do and we will do the same task, you can maybe have a lottery in terms of the departments and have Commissioners pick at random any department. That way, you know, we won't have any particular interests in any department and that would, I think, that would he easier for you. Mayor Carollo: Yeah, I'll take that into consideration, Commissioner. I certainly don't want to play Solomon. Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor, I just want to... You probably don't want to hear this, but, you know, out of respect for you. You know, I just want you to be very careful as you, you know, you contemplate reviewing departments. But, I think the Charter is quite clear when it talks about your inability to influence... Mayor Carollo: All that the Commission can make... Commissioner Plummer: Oh, no, no, no. Mayor Carollo: ... are recommendations... Mr. Jones: Yes. -"*Mayor Carollo:- ... and ask questions. We understand that. Commissioner Plummer: We have every right... Mr. Jones: Or to interfere. Mayor Carollo: Except with the Law Department. Commissioner Plummer: No, no, no. We have every right to look and review. We cannot interfere or dictate to. Mr. Jones: I am just issuing a caveat, Commissioner, that's all. Commissioner Plummer: I, as a Commissioner, I can sit here and look at every department I want to look at and review it. And they better provide every document I ask for. Mayor Carollo: City... City... Commissioner Plummer: Then, I come here and make the decisions. Mayor Carollo: That's correct, Commissioner. But, the City Attorney is correct in reminding this Commission of the Charter provisions that we are bound by. Commissioner Plummer: Can we ask some questions, Mr. Mayor, about this item which was supposedly a great deal of money put together to ask the questions about? What are supposed to be doing with this? I notice here... Mayor Carollo: What are we talking about, Commissioner? 18 April 8, 1997 Commissioner Plummer: The document on the salaries. Police and fire staff and civilian employees... Mayor Carollo: Well, I unfortunately have not had the chance to go through it. But... Commissioner Plummer: Well, neither have I, but I am trying to understand what I am supposed to understand. Mr. Marquez: This was a request... Commissioner Plummer: I mean, it's obviously a document that took a lot of time to put together and... Ms. Angela Bellamy (Director, Human Resources): Yes. Yes, Mr. Mayor... Commissioner Plummer: What are we trying to accomplish by this document? Is there some bottom line? Mr. Marquez: We are responding to a Commissioner's request for information. Commissioner Plummer: That's fine. Then whoever that Commissioner is, I wish he would tell me what am I trying to accomplish by reading this document because it's all figures. I mean... and the way the numbers are put together are deceiving in a certain way. Let's look at the Police Chief. He's making "X" and it says if he gets a rollback, is that what it says, a rollback? Well, let's go to Fire because that's in front of me. Mrs. Bellamy: Mr. Mayor and Commissioners, if I may. Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. If I can finish? Commissioner Plummer: I don't know what this information is trying to tell me. The Fire Chief is making one hundred and six thousand dollars ($106,000) and he is a Fire captain. If it's his rollback which I don't know anybody is proposing that he be rolled back, he'd go down to sixty- nine thousand dollars ($69,000) or thirty-six thousand. Is that what this document is saying, roll all these people back? Mr. Marquez: No, sir. No, sir. The request for information was regarding the executives and the civilian work forces of the Police and Fire Department. You asked for, who are these people; what positions do they hold; what are the areas of responsibility? What are the... what's the impact if they were to be laid off from that position. Commissioner Plummer: That's fine. Now, I read this document. I understand this document and what am I trying to accomplish from this document? Are we going to rollback? Mr. Marquez: It was a request of information from the City Commission. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, the reason that document is in your hands is to... Commissioner Plummer: Yes, sir. Mayor Carollo: ... try to answer some of the questions that you were asking even earlier this meeting to see what possible additional cuts we can make anywhere. 19 April 8, 1997 Commissioner Plummer: All right, sir. It's been a nice morning. Mayor Carollo: Now, hearing no further business before this board, this meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor, I have been informed by your aide that the Thursday agenda is not much. Is that correct? You want to start the meeting at nine or not? But my question is, do you want to start it at nine a.m. Ms. Charlene Watkins (Senior Policy Advisor): It's advertised for nine. Commissioner Plummer: You want to schedule that for nine? That's fine with me. Mayor Carollo: What time did we schedule the meeting? Commissioner Plummer: OK, no, there is only 14 items. i Ms. Watkins: Yeah, but remember you guys are going to work through lunch. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Ms. Watkins: You might not have to. Commissioner Plummer: All right. THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION, THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 10:37 A.M. ATTEST: Walter J. Foeman CITY CLERK Maria J. Argudin ASSISTANT CITY CLERK JOE CAROLLO MAYOR (SEAL) 20 April 8, 1997