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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 1998-03-19 MinutesCITY OF qY�oF MIAMI COMMISSION MINUTES OF MEETING HELD ON March 19, 1998 (Special) PREPARED BY THE OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK/CITY HALL Walter J. Foeman/City Clerk INDEX MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING March 19, 1998 ITEM SUBJECT LEGISLATION PAGE NO. NO. 53. CONTINUE / RECESS CITY COMMISSION DISCUSSION 1-5 MEETING OF MARCH 10, 1998 ON MARCH 19, 3/19/98 1998 -- ANNOUNCE BEGINNING OF EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS EDWARD MARQUEZ V.S. CITY OF MIAMI LAWSUIT. 54. (A) CLOSE EXECUTIVE SESSION RELATED TO M 98-280 6-9 MARQUEZ V.S. CITY OF MIAMI LAWSUIT -- 3/19/98 RECONVENE CITY COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 10, 1998. (B) AUTHORIZE CITY MANAGER TO NEGOTIATE AND ATTEMPT POTENTIAL SETTLEMENT OF EDWARD MARQUEZ' LAWSUIT AGAINST CITY. 55. (A) CLARIFY ROLE OF EXECUTIVE MAYOR AS DISCUSSION 9-12 PRESIDING OFFICER PURSUANT TO 3/19/98 ORDINANCE 11564 -- DESIGNATE COMMISSIONER PLUMMER AS TEMPORARY VICE CHAIRMAN. (B) ISSUE CONDOLENCES TO FAMILY OF WALTER PIERCE ON HIS UNTIMELY PASSING. 56. (A) REQUEST TO FURNISH COMMISSIONERS M 98-281 13-48 WITH COPY OF PUBLIC FINANCIAL 3/19/98 MANAGEMENT'S LETTER TO OVERSIGHT BOARD REGARDING PROPOSED CITY'S BUDGET. (B) DISCUSS / REQUEST REPORT PER DISTRICT ON CAPITAL NEEDS OF FIRE -RESCUE DEPARTMENT. (C) MAYOR CAROLLO ESTABLISHES PROCEDURES OF ORDER FOR COMMISSIONERS TO FOLLOW DURING CITY COMMISSION MEETINGS. (D) DIRECTIVE NOT TO SUBSIDIZE CAPITAL NEEDS OF FIRE -RESCUE WITH COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FUNDS. (E) COMMISSION REQUESTS BACKGROUND CHECKS ON AGENCIES APPLYING FOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FUNDS. (F) CONTINUE MEETING OF MARCH 19, 1998, TO APRIL 14, 1998 AT 6:00 P.M. -- FURTHER PROVIDING MANAGER OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW PROPOSED 24TH YEAR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT ALLOCATIONS FOR RECOMMENDATIONS TO INCREASE OR DECREASE -- ALSO INSTRUCTING MANAGER NOT TO SUBSIDIZE ESSENTIAL GOVERNMENT SERVICES WITH COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT FUNDS. MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA On the 19th day of March, 1998, the City Commission of Miami, Florida, met at its special meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami, Florida in regular session. The meeting was called to order at 11:30 a.m. by Presiding Officer/Commissioner Humberto Hernandez (hereinafter referred to as Chairman Hernandez), with the following members of the Commission found to be present: ALSO PRESENT: ABSENT: Commissioner Wifredo Gort (District 1) Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. (District 2) Commissioner Humberto Hernandez (District 3) Commissioner Tomas Regalado (District 4) Jose Garcia -Pedrosa, City Manager Joel E. Maxwell, Interim City Attorney Walter J. Foeman, City Clerk Maria J. Argudin, Assistant City Clerk Vice Chairman Arthur E. Teele, Jr. (District 5) Mayor Joe Carollo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 53. CONTINUE / RECESS CITY COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 10, 1998 ON MARCH 19, 1998 -- ANNOUNCE BEGINNING OF EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS EDWARD MARQUEZ V.S. CITY OF MIAMI LAWSUIT. Commissioner Plummer: ... by memo that he will not be present for the eleven thirty meeting, and then he will be late for the 12 o'clock meeting. You want to note that for your... You want me to repeat it? By memo, Commissioner Arthur Teele has indicated that he will not be able to attend the 11:30 closed door meeting for medical reasons, and that he will be late to the 12 o'clock meeting of the Commission. Just for the record. I have been sitting here for six minutes waiting. Commissioner Gort: You have got radio stations in lines, so don't worry. March 19, 1998 Commissioner Plummer: Who? Commissioner Gort: You do. Commissioner Plummer: My clients don't say nothing. If they did, I would be in a new job. Commissioner Gort: The day they start talking to you, you better watch out. Commissioner Plummer: If I am the dean, there is a quorum present. Mr. City Attorney, would you advise us of what we have to do, please? Mr. Joel E. Maxwell, Esq. (Interim City Attorney): Yes, sir. As City Attorney, I have asked for advice from this City Commission at this meeting of March the loth. I advised you that a lawsuit had been filed by former City Manager Ed Marquez against the City of Miami, and asked for your guidance in potential settlement negotiations on it. Pursuant to that, and pursuant to Florida Statutes, this Commission asked for a closed executive session, an attorney/client session. It's been properly noticed in the newspapers and through the electronic media, and the thing for you to do now, is to open this meeting as you would any other meeting, and announce that you will be going into attorney client session. Announce approximately how long you think the session will be. The purpose of course, is Marquez versus the City of Miami. We have scheduled, I think, approximately 30 minuets, so that will be the time you would designate. And, you need to indicate the people who will be attending the meeting. The statute clearly delineates who can attend that meeting. That would be the entity, namely, the City Commissioners. It also says that the Chief Administrative Officer, or Executive Officer shall attend. Of course, we here in the City of Miami have both. The statute is disjunctive. Therefore, I am of the opinion that only one of the two could go. Either the Mayor, or the City Manager in this case. So... Mr. Maxwell: So... The Manager tells me the Mayor is not going, so the Manager will attend. Therefore, if... Commissioner Plummer: Well, excuse me. Do we not make that determination? Does not this Commission make the determination who we want there? I mean, it's the Mayor's prerogative, you know, if he wants to go or not. But, I think this Commission still has the right to delegate that we either want the Manager or the Mayor, since we can't have both. Now, in this particular case, I have no objections, but I think we need to call the shots as they are. Mr. Maxwell: Well, in this particular case, the statute says that the persons having a right to attend. It says "... not withstanding provisions of Subsection L.." And, then it goes on. ..."amendment Municipal Corporation of Political Subdivision and the Chief Administrative or Executive Officer of the government entity may meet in private with the entity's attorneys." So, I think either one of them have the right to attend. Now, as to who, you know, they would listen to, I am sure your wishes on that. So, they will be guided by that. But, they have a right, either one of them to attend the meeting. Also, it would be attended only by or solely by your attorneys. In this case, myself and one of my assistants who has been the chief on this case, Olga Ramirez-Saez. She's here, she will be attending, as will a court reporter. No other individuals may attend. And, the other rules regarding this meeting that I will explain to you in the session regarding the subject matter. It will be... The discussion will be limited solely, solely to celibant discussions, or discussions regarding litigation expenses. You cannot discuss anything else in this meeting. Commissioner Regalado: Can I ask you, if after the meeting, the media will want to know what was the purpose under discussion. What can you say? 2 March 19, 1998 Mr. Maxwell: Well, you are saying what the purpose is now. The purpose is to give the City Attorney advice on settlement negotiations or, and/or discussions involving litigation expenses related to it. That's all. And, I would suggest that that will be the only thing you would discuss with the media. That's the whole purpose of going behind closed doors. There will be a court reporter. That court reporter is required by law to transcribe every single thing that's said in the room on this issue. And, no one will be allowed to go out and consult with anyone and come back in. Therefore, it will be a full record. That record will be kept closed, until such time as the litigation ends. Then, it will be made a part of the public record. There will be no other record of the meeting. Commissioner Regalado: OK. Fine with me. Do we go upstairs or..? Chairman Hernandez: So, let's go upstairs. Commissioner Plummer: Wait a minute. Excuse me. The City Clerk said something had to be read into the record. Chairman Hernandez: He told he's outlined everything under the Florida Statute, so that's all we have to do. Mr. Maxwell: Well, no. If I may? Then, I will read it into the record for you. Chairman Hernandez: You want me to... Mr. Maxwell: Or, if you like, you have a copy of it there with you? Chairman Hernandez: Yeah. Give me... I'll get a copy. Mr. Maxwell: Here you go. Commissioner Plummer: I got to tell you, life around here gettings damn complicated. Commissioner Gort: It's your imagination, J.L. Commissioner Plummer: No, it's not my imagination. Commissioner Gort: For the first time in 24 years you work. Commissioner Plummer: Twenty-eight years. Commissioner Gort: Twenty-eight years. Chairman Hernandez: "Attorney client meeting procedure for Thursday, March 19, 1998. Procedure number two, the Mayor is to announce that the requested attorney/client closed session has been properly advertised and is to commence immediately in separate chambers and that the closed door session will last approximately 30 minutes. Procedure number three, the Mayor must say that the attorney/client session will be attended only by Mayor Carollo, Commissioners Gort, Hernandez, Plummer, Regalado, Teele, Interim City Attorney Joel Edward Maxwell, Assistant City Attorney Olga Ramirez-Saez, the City Manager and a court reporter. Number four, the Mayor will then..." Commissioner Plummer: Hold it, hold it. 3 March 19, 1998 Mr. Maxwell: Yeah, in this particular instance... Commissioner Plummer: Now, that's contrary to what he's just told us. Mr. Maxwell: No... Commissioner Plummer: They both can't attend, one or the other. So, that letter... Mr. Maxwell: The Manager has indicated... The Mayor has indicated, I understand that he will not be attending. Therefore, if you will... Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. That's not what that letter just said. Commissioner Regalado: That's right. Mr. Maxwell: I... Commissioner Plummer: That letter is incorrect. Mr. Maxwell: Those directions were made by myself, Commissioner to guide the person, the presiding officer. Commissioner Plummer: Then, correct it. Mr. Maxwell: I was not informed until moments ago, that the Mayor would not be attending. Commissioner Plummer: That's not my... Mr. Maxwell: Therefore, it will... It... Commissioner Regalado: No, but the letter said, ... "the Mayor and the Manager." And, you said... Commissioner Plummer: He said... And, that's contrary to what you have given us as a ruling that they both can't attend. Mr. Maxwell: They will not both be attending, that was supposed to be an alternative. It will be attended... Commissioner Regalado: You got to... You got to... Mr. Maxwell: Mister... Commissioner, if you will, please? Please indicate on the record that it will be attended by the Mayor... the Manager. Commissioner Plummer: Ahhh... Chairman Hernandez: OK. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Chairman. Chairman Hernandez: Yes. Commissioner Gort: I need to ask a question. The Charter says that you cannot have the Mayor and the Manager in the same meeting? 4 March 19, 1998 Mr. Maxwell: It's not the Charter, it's the statute. Commissioner Gort: The statute. Mr. Maxwell: The statute... If I may act... If you will allow him to finish it... finish that, because that's required. Then, I'll explain, Commissioner, why only one. Chairman Hernandez: Joel, when it says the Mayor, would you like me to read then, the Manager or just...? Mr. Maxwell: Yes. Chairman Hernandez: OK. ..."The Manager will then close the open portion of that meeting and all those named will retire to the meeting room. City Manager's conference room for the closed door session. Five, after the session, the Manager and Commissioners must go back to the chambers and reopen the meeting. Then, inform the public that the attorney/client session has ended. They can continue the City Commission meeting of March 10, 1998." Mr. Maxwell: Thank you. Now, Commissioner, if I... Gort, I think you came in after I explained it before. The statute that governs attorney/client sessions of this type clearly says that it uses the disjunctive expression or... It says "executive officer or administrative officer." And, there are cases that say that this particular statute must be construed, strictly. Commissioner Gort: According to this statute? Mr. Maxwell: Yeah, this statute. Commissioner Gort: Oh, I thought it was for all of them. Mr. Maxwell: OK. Commissioner Gort: Thank you. Mr. Maxwell: This session of the meeting is closed. We will retire for the attorney client session. THEREUPON THE CITY COMMISSION WENT INTO RECESS AT 9:10 A.M. AND RECONVENED AT 11:37 A.M., WITH ALL MEMBERS OF THE CITY COMMISSION EXCEPT COMMISSIONER TEELE AND MAYOR CAROLLO FOUND TO BE PRESENT. 5 March 19, 1998 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 54. (A)CLOSE EXECUTIVE SESSION RELATED TO MARQUEZ V.S. CITY OF MIAMI LAWSUIT -- RECONVENE CITY COMMISSION MEETING OF MARCH 10, 1998. (B)AUTHORIZE CITY MANAGER TO NEGOTIATE AND ATTEMPT POTENTIAL SETTLEMENT OF EDWARD MARQUEZ' LAWSUIT AGAINST CITY. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. Joel E. Maxwell (Interim City Attorney): May I have your attention, please? For the record, Commissioner Regalado. Commissioner Plummer: I can't hear you, Mr. City Attorney. If everybody would be quiet. Sir, the private meetings are outside. Mr. Maxwell: For the record, I would just like to indicate that there was an attorney/client session previous to this meeting, held upstairs in the chambers of City Hall. It was a closed door attorney/client session. It was closed upstairs. It is now reconvened downstairs for purposes of closing. So, let the record reflect that the meeting attended upstairs by the Commissioners, by the Manager, by the City Attorney and an Assistant City Attorney has concluded, and that session is over. The regular City Commission meeting will now convene. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. City Attorney, before we start, if I may ask a question? Only by virtue of the fact that it might be challenged. It's my recollection at the last time, this meeting was a continuation of the previous meeting. Mr. Maxwell: Yes, sir. Commissioner Plummer: Yet, the agenda calls this a Special Commission meeting. Mr. Maxwell: The City Clerk maybe can address that issue. I understand that's a typographical error. Commissioner Plummer: I don't care who addresses it. I want you to address, I assume, are we legally here predicated on the misconception of the verbage? Mr. Maxwell: In my opinion, you are definitely legal, sir. What happened was, at that meeting you adjourned to this meeting. Commissioner Plummer: Thank you. Mr. Maxwell: On the record, you did. Mr. Walter J. Foeman (City Clerk): Commissioner Plummer. Commissioner Regalado: Mr. City Attorney, a point of clarification, sir. On... On the City Charter, the amended City Charter says that the Mayor as presiding officer shall not move, second, debate or both. The Mayor has indicated that he will be the presiding officer. And, my question is, can the Mayor debate on the different issues? Mr. Maxwell: Just for clarifications, Commissioner Regalado. It's not the Charter that has that provision in it. It's an ordinance that was adopted to implement the Charter provision. That's 6 March 19, 1998 Ordinance 11564 which was adopted in October of '98. And, it's purpose was to implement the Charter provisions. Section 2-33, I am sorry, 2-34(b) says, "The Mayor as presiding..." and this is of the ordinance. "The Mayor as presiding officer, shall not move, second, debate or vote. If the presiding officer is a member of the City Commission, the presiding officer upon relinquishing the chair may move, second, debate and vote subject to such limitations as are imposed on all members." Therefore, I am of the opinion, that pursuant to this particular ordinance, the Mayor is precluded under the ordinance from debating. A question had... Commissioner Regalado: My question is, can that ordinance be amended in case if the Mayor is not the presiding officer, or would relinquish momentarily the presiding officer chair? Commissioner Plummer: Referendum. Mr. Maxwell: Well, this is an ordinance, emergency... Certainly, any ordinance of the City of Miami can be amended. This one was adopted by an emergency ordinance, it can be amended by an emergency ordinance as long as you have four -fifths vote. So, if you were to vote, to delete the prohibition on the Mayor debating, he would be able to debate. Mayor Carollo: If I may ask the following question, Mr. City Attorney before that discussion is finished, if it hasn't been? It was my intention, fit meets with your legal opinion to name someone temporarily, if I do not... so that I could pass the gavel to, if I need to make any statements or to enter into discussions to name someone to be a Vice -Chair that would then take over as the presiding officer when I pass the gavel to them, so that I can participate, if I need to. I will try to limit it as much as I can, in any debates. If it's done that way, would that be legal? Mr. Maxwell: Well, the section on relinquishing the gavel does not occur in the first sentence. However, in the sentence dealing with a Commissioner who you have appointed as presiding officer, it does, as I have mentioned earlier, make reference to relinquishing the chair. So, it's possible that that could be accomplished in the case of the Mayor as well as you suggested there. Maybe, relinquish the gavel, you are no longer the presiding officer, then you participate in debate. But, that is a possible solution. And... But, I would be somewhat uncomfortable with that, even though it's possible that you could do that. I would suggest that the best way to do it, would be to amend the code, be it emergency, now, whatever, to remove the prohibition on debate. So, you could relinquish the gavel and do it that way, but that would not be the cleanest way to do it. Mayor Carollo: OK, so your answer is on the affirmative, but you would be even more inclined, more satisfied, if an ordinance... Mr. Maxwell: Yes, sir. Mayor Carollo: ... was made? Mr. Maxwell: That's correct. Mayor Carollo: OK. Very good. Commissioner Regalado: Can we present this ordinance to the Commission? Can we bring this ordinance to the Commission? Mr. Maxwell: Or you could do that now, by emergency, if... or if you would like it prepared. You would simply be striking one word from the... from 2-34. If you struck that word, there will be no prohibition, but we could make it clearer, if it's the will of the Commission that the Mayor be allowed to debate. He would not be able to move, second, vote. He still couldn't do that. 7 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Regalado: Of course. Mr. Maxwell: But, he would be able to participate in the debate. We could bring up an ordinance to you that would make that clearer, but I think for emergency purposes if you wanted to do it, you could simply move an ordinance. We can have an ordinance before you today, to strike that provision. Mayor Carollo: Well, I am satisfied with your opinion that I can relinquish the gavel and be able to participate in any debate. However, if it is the will of the Commission to go one step further, as you suggested that you would feel better with, and go with an ordinance, that is also fine. But I don't think we need to get into any further discussion at this point in time. Maybe, what we could do is, to begin the meeting today, since, unfortunately, because of the executive session, the Commission had has been somewhat delayed. And, I really would not want the people here to wait any longer. So, if there is no further statements from any members of the Commission on this item, if we could all stand up so that we can say a prayer and begin the meeting of today. If I may Father Montealegue if he could come up and lead us in prayer, please. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Yes. Commissioner Plummer: I would ask out of due difference that we recognize our former Mayor's mother has passed away. And, ask that Xavier Suarez' mother be remembered in your prayers here, today. Mayor Carollo: We all agree with that, Commissioner. [NOTE FOR THE RECORD: AT THIS POINT, THE INVOCATION WAS DELIVERED BY FATHER MONTEALEGUE.] Mayor Carollo: Amen. If I could ask, Commissioner Gibson, that I saw her here. She could lead us in the pledge of allegiance. Commissioner it's good have you here today. [NOTE FOR THE RECORD: AT THIS POINT, COMMISSIONER GIBSON LEAD THOSE PRESENT IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG.] Mayor Carollo: Thank you, Commissioner Gibson. Thank you, Father Montealegue. Commissioner Regalado: Mr. Mayor, if I may? Following an executive session, I believe that we need to present a motion regarding a case that we discussed in the executive session. Is that proper now, Mr. City Attorney? Mr. Joel E. Maxwell, Esq. (Interim City Attorney): Yes, sir, if you... You should indicate what it is that you... of course, the motion would be. Commissioner Regalado: The motion is to give the City Manager directions to talk to Mr. Edward Marquez, the former City Manager. Mr. Maxwell: Yes. To...? Commissioner Regalado: That would be... Mr. Maxwell: Just for purposes of potential settlement? 8 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Regalado: For purposes... Yes, of a settlement. Commissioner Plummer: Second the motion. Mayor Carollo: There is a motion, there is a second. Is there any further discussion? Any comments? Hearing none, all in favor signify by saying "aye." The Commission (Collectively): Aye. Mayor Carollo: It passes unanimously. Five/zero. The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Regalado, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 98-280 A MOTION AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING CITY MANAGER JOSE GARCIA- PEDROSA TO MEET WITH FORMER CITY MANAGER EDWARD MARQUEZ, IN CONNECTION WITH MR. MARQUEZ' COMPLAINT AGAINST THE CITY FOR BREACH OF CONTRACT, FOR THE PURPOSE OF ATTEMPTING A POTENTIAL SETTLEMENT REGARDING SAME. Upon being seconded by Commissioner Plummer, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES; Commissioner Wifrede Gort Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Humberto Hernandez Commissioner Tomas Regalado Commissioner Arthur E. Teele, Jr. NAYS: None. ABSENT: None. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 55. (A)CLARIFY ROLE OF EXECUTIVE MAYOR AS PRESIDING OFFICER PURSUANT TO ORDINANCE 11564 -- DESIGNATE COMMISSIONER PLUMMER AS TEMPORARY VICE CHAIRMAN. (B)ISSUE CONDOLENCES TO FAMILY OF WALTER PIERCE ON HIS UNTIMELY PASSING. Mayor Carollo: Is there any other item that any member of the Commission would like to bring up at this time before we get into the regular scheduled item of Community Development project funding? OK. Hearing none, if we could begin, Mr. Manager. Commissioner Gort: Wait a minute. Mayor Carollo: I am sorry. Commissioner. 9 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Gort: I would like ask some request from the Manager. I would like to have the copies, and I think you already sent it to the meeting that took place yesterday with the Governor's Board. Commissioner Plummer: Oversight. Mr. Jose Pedrosa -Garcia (City Manager): Oversight Board. Mr. Joel E. Maxwell, Esq. (Interim City Attorney): Oversight Board. Oversight Board. Commissioner Gort: The Oversight Board. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: You need a copy of what, sir? Commissioner Gort: I would like to get the recommendations from the financial advisor, from the other committee. And, if it's possible, minutes. Thank you. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: The minutes will not be available right now. They are being prepared in Tallahassee. But yes, we will give you the letter... Commissioner Gort: OK, thank you. Mayor Carollo: We could even go one point further, if need be Commissioner. NET (Neighborhood Enhancement Team) 9, filmed that yesterday, and I am sure that the Manager can provide a copy for you, if you need that. Commissioner Gort: No, all I need is the recommendation from the professional staff that give recommendations to the board members. Mayor Carollo: Certainly. Now... Commissioner Gort: Supposedly, they are supposed to base their decision based on the recommendation they get from the different committees. Mayor Carollo: Certainly. If I could just take one more minute, Mr. Manager before you proceed? What I would like to do at this point in time, in case that I have to enter into any discussions and express any opinions, and I will try to limit that as much as I can. Or, if I have to step out for any reason, on a temporary basis for the meantime, I would like to name the senior member of this Commission, and if I may add, I am saying senior member, not senior citizen, because I don't want anybody coming back at me. But, I would like to name my friend and colleague, senior member of the Commission, Commissioner Plummer Vice Chair temporarily until I make a final decision as to what appointments I will make. So, I would appreciate it, Commissioner, if you would accept. Commissioner Plummer: No problem. Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Mr. Manager. Thank you. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Commissioners. Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Just... if I may? I have got a comment on the Oversight Board. This is an ongoing complaint of mine that I feel this operating in a void between the governing body of what happens in this City and the Oversight Board of not meeting together, in my opinion is a mistake. We are not invited to the meetings, we do not participate in the 10 March 19, 1998 meetings. Whereas, if it were a joint meeting, we would not have to go back and forth, and I will tell you later Mr. Manuel Gonzalez-Goenaga: Mr. Vice Mayor. Congratulations. Mayor Carollo: Thank you. Please, please. Commissioner Plummer: Yes, go take your pills, please. Be careful, Joe, he might be the next Mayor. I just, for record, I have to say that I think that we are missing a great deal by not having joint meetings. They continue to say, the City Commission should do this, and the City Commission should not. I saw some of the video last evening, and I have to tell you that in my opinion, they are very ill-informed of what this City Commission stands for and what we do. I think they made the comment that this Commission does not have "political will." And, I don't know what they meant by that, and I wish we were sitting face to face, and they would have made that comment to me. And, I would have told them what "political will" means to this community because we listen to the people and they don't have to. I am beginning to wonder, and I am beginning to be very suspect, that in fact, you cannot operate in a vacuum. And, I think, from my opinion, without us having joint meetings, it's fine to send the Manager. And, I saw that the Mayor unexpectedly did show up, and I congratulate you for that. But, this City Commission is the one who will make the final decisions. And, to not have us in the same room meeting with these people, in my opinion, is never going to work the way that it should work and could work if we had joint meetings. I just have to say that for the record. [APPLAUSE] Chairman Hernandez: Mr. Mayor, can I...? Mayor Carollo: Yes. Commissioner Regalado: And, I think that only way that we communicate with the Oversight Board is through the press. They say something, and then we react, or we say... we do something and they react. And, Commissioner Plummer is very right in saying that, you know, if they would say to me, that the fact that we don't have "political will," I don't know what they mean by that. I would also say to the press, and I would repeat it here, that I would invite the members of the Oversight Board to come with me and visit, East Little Havana, Wynwood, Allapattah, Flagami, Liberty City, Overtown, and then when they talk to the people, which I think they only see that area when they travel to I-95. But, when they see those areas, I would tell them that tell me what is "political will." So, I just would hope, unfortunately, Vice Chairman Teele did not attend. He resigned his former... Commissioner Teele, unfortunately did not attend that meeting, but I believe the members of the Commission should be there. I don't know if by law, we could be there. At least one, or... I mean, the Mayor can be there, one Commissioner. But, more than one Commissioner, I don't know if we can be there. So... Commissioner Plummer: It's an advertised meeting. Mr. Maxwell: You can certainly come as a... Commissioner Gort: You know, Mr. Mayor... Mr. Maxwell: You can come as a spectator. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Gort, if I may? Commissioner Hernandez had asked for the floor before. Chairman Hernandez: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 11 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Gort: Certainly. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner. Chairman Hernandez: Mr. Manager, I just have two questions. A point of clarification because I read what came out in the paper, and I was not present at the meeting yesterday, and, we have spent a lot of days debating up here. And, I know you spent a full weekend with your staff working on balancing the budget and looking for ways or alternatives to the Fire -rescue fee. My two questions are very simple. Number one, are we currently working under a balanced budget? According to the Herald, since they did not approve the five-year plan, we are now not under a balanced budget. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: There was some discussion on that, because, I think, technically speaking the only budget that they have ever approved, is the budget that contains the fire fee, and that was approved by the Oversight Board on January the 14th. Chairman Hernandez: Uh-huh. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: I think that the point that was made and probably what was then picked up in the newspaper is that since that, and this is what one of the members of the Commission I recall specifically stating. Since that budget that they approved contains a substantial source of revenue that has now been rejected, it was the view of that member which I think was... met with the consensus by the other members. At least, nobody expressed any disagreement, that therefore, the City was operating under a budget that is not balanced, yes. Chairman Hernandez: But, in the five-year plan that we modified, that we approved unanimously, that you presented to the Oversight Board, it was a five-year plan wherein we had a balanced budget and there were alternatives to the Fire -rescue fee, correct? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Yes, Commissioner. We presented the full five years. The Oversight Board, yesterday only considered the fiscal year '97-'98 budget. They chose through the estimating conference process to focus on that one year first. What we presented to you, and ultimately what was in front of them, yesterday, was balanced in the sense that... In fact, it was overbalanced, it was projected to produce a surplus of three point one six million dollars ($3,016,000,000), not counting FEC (Florida East Cost) sale items. Obviously, that will make the surplus much bigger. And, as to the requirement that recurring revenues exceed recurring expenditures, the margin was positive by one million six hundred thousand dollars ($1,600,000) that was challenged to an item, a nine hundred thousand dollar ($900,000) component and views were expressed that they did not agree with that item, so that that would bring it down to a seven hundred thousand dollar ($700,000) overage. But, the process stopped there. That is to say, they did not go further into trying to see if it would be brought down below the required 100 percent. But, in short, the budget... the surplus was not challenged, although substantial questions were expressed about the overage of recurring revenues over recurring expenditures. 12 March 19, 1998 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 56. (A)REQUEST TO FURNISH COMMISSIONERS WITH COPY OF PUBLIC FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT'S LETTER TO OVERSIGHT BOARD REGARDING PROPOSED CITY'S BUDGET. (B)DISCUSS / REQUEST REPORT PER DISTRICT ON CAPITAL NEEDS OF FIRE -RESCUE DEPARTMENT. (C)MAYOR CAROLLO ESTABLISHES PROCEDURES OF ORDER FOR COMMISSIONERS TO FOLLOW DURING CITY COMMISSION MEETINGS. (D)DIRECTIVE NOT TO SUBSIDIZE CAPITAL NEEDS OF FIRE -RESCUE WITH COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FUNDS. (E) COMMISSION REQUESTS BACKGROUND CHECKS ON AGENCIES APPLYING FOR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FUNDS. (F) CONTINUE MEETING OF MARCH 19, 1998, TO APRIL 14, 1998 AT 6:00 P.M. -- FURTHER PROVIDING MANAGER OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW PROPOSED 24TH YEAR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT ALLOCATIONS FOR RECOMMENDATIONS TO INCREASE OR DECREASE -- ALSO INSTRUCTING MANAGER NOT TO SUBSIDIZE ESSENTIAL GOVERNMENT SERVICES WITH COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT FUNDS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chairman Hernandez: And, one last question, Mr. Mayor? Mayor Carollo: Sure. Chairman Hernandez: In your professional opinion, and I know you do not have a crystal ball, but pending any emergency like or disaster like Hurricane Andrew, in your professional opinion, can we have a five-year plan where we have a balanced budget in each and every five... each year of the five years, without a Fire Rescue fee, and or without doubling the garbage fee? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Well, I think what we presented to you on March the 2nd was such a plan. Yes. The question really comes down to what level of funding do you wish to have for specific things. And, I will tell you that that was a subject of much of the discussion yesterday in the Oversight Board meeting. We had focussed on this year as the lean year and the out years as being the more comfortable years. And, the Oversight Board Chairman at one point, made clear at least his view, that we should not be doing that, that this would be the... he didn't say the fat year, but that's what he meant. Commissioner Plummer: He should know. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: And, that we should be "feasting" is the word he did use at one point, this year with additional revenues. So that if there is a problem of hurricane or anything else, and that was also mentioned, in the out years, there would be a cushion created in this year's budget. Chairman Hernandez: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Gort. Commissioner Gort: My understanding and the reason I wanted those documents. Number one, my understanding is, the estimating conference approved or recommended to approve, and their 13 March 19, 1998 financial advisor who looked at the... in details of all the budget you presented to them recommended to them to approve also. That's why I would like to have a copy of those documents. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: The way the process works, Commissioner. Commissioner Gort: And, also, let me ask you a question. I understand they did balance and they approved the budget with the fire -fee included, but the fire -fee could be challenging in court, and at the end of the year, people might not have to pay for it, and so what happened then with the twenty... twenty something million dollar deficit? Was that considered by them also? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: I said that to them at their last meeting, the one before yesterday, and expressed that concern. Yes, sir. As far as the estimating conference and the management, financial management consultants are concerned. The way the process works, the estimating conference is a... an amalgamation of City staff, Oversight Board staff, and the financial consultant. And, what their function is, is to go over all the numbers. And, I will tell you that they did the most thorough, according to my staff, because as you know, I haven't been here prior to that. But, the most thorough review that they had ever done, except the first one, the very beginning of the process. The report is then issued and the only recommendation as such, which is in writing, is from the financial consultant to the Oversight Board. Public Financial Management, Inc. headed by... as a consultant, by Phillip Brown. And, that recommendation, you are correct, Commissioner Gort, was to approve the budget. Although he said it was a very thin margin, subject to three provisos which we would have had to bring back to you, I don't know that you would have any difficulty with any of them, because I didn't think they were major provisos that he wanted. But, specifically, the language on page three of his letter is, PMF (Public Financial Management) recommends that the Oversight Board approve the budget plans submitted by the City, with the following provisos. Commissioner Plummer: And, that is the ones... Commissioner Gort: Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Sure, Willy. [phonetic] Commissioner Plummer: That is who they paid to revise them? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Yes, sir, that's correct. Commissioner Plummer: And, they in direct conflict with their own paid professional chose to go another route? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: I think that's a fair statement, sir. Commissioner Plummer: So, then how do we equate the morning the morning headlines in the morning tabloid... Commissioner Gort: Let them put whatever they want. Commissioner Plummer: ... that says that the City flunked? Now, if we are in black ink, we are in black ink. And, the morning tabloid made some comment about the City flunked its budget. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: I think the reference there, Commissioner Plummer, is to the fact that, under the terms of the Intergovernmental Cooperation Agreement signed on December of 1996, there was a requirement that the Oversight Board approve the City's budget. I think the word "flunked" as I read it, referred to the disapproval. 14 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Plummer: Well, I think they ought to get other professional advisors if they are not going to rec... use the one that they have. Thank you. Mayor Carollo: Sure. Any, anyone else. Chairman Hernandez: I have one question. Mayor Carollo: Sure, go ahead. Chairman Hernandez: Mr. Manager, I had a read a copy of this letter and I just wanted to hear your opinion of what's been the reversal of origin as to this budget that we approved. Phillip Brown, Public Financial Management, Inc., all of us have a copy of it, and a portion of his letter to the Chairman of the Oversight Board, stated that "... finally, PFM recommends that the Oversight Board approve the budget plans submitted by the City with the following provisos." Now, did they just disregard this letter to the Chairman? Did he back away from this letter to the Chairman of the Oversight Board? What was his position after he sends this letter approving the entire budget that we approved? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Well, I think to answer the first part of your question, the Chairman, I think, expressed at one point, candidly that that was not his... he was not following the recommendation. But, to address the second part, that recommendation was made in writing before the meeting began. But, by the time Mr. Brown who was on by phone, he wasn't physically present, got to speak to him, there had been a great deal of discussion, and some statements had been made at by at least one member, maybe more of the Oversight Board of his negative disposition or inclination towards the approval. I think what Mr. Brown stated at that point was, his concern that aside from the requirement or the need for discipline by the City in order to achieve this year's budget as stated, that he was concerned about the out years. And, at that point, I remember stating to the Chair that if that was the concern they ought to go ahead and approve this budget, and give us an opportunity to address the out years. And yes, I think it's at that point that the comment was made that despite the recommendation.. Commissioner Plummer: ... also what they recommended, but I am not in concurrence. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: ... there was not agreement by the board with the recommendation even for this year's budget. Commissioner Plummer: I just want to read one sentence into the record from the PFM (Public Financial Management) letter. "... The budget is balanced and budgeted recurring revenues exceed budgeted recurring expenditures." It doesn't take Einstein to understand that. Mayor Carollo: Any...? Vice Chairman Teele: Mr. Chairman. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Teele, go ahead. Vice Chairman Teele: Mr. Chairman, let me just congratulate you, this is my first time seeing you on being here. Again, I want to make sure that my views, the minority views are not lost. Number one, the Oversight Board probably watches our Commission meetings better than we, or as well as we attend to these meetings individually ourselves. They... each of those members pretty much watches it, and in the cases where they are not there, they tape it, they watch it. So, while we may not know what they are doing, they clearly know what we are doing. They watch the discussion, they watch the debate. And, if you talk to them one on one, they'll critique your 15 March 19, 1998 comments or your views, whatever. So, I think in fairness, before we let the bravado get out of control, we need to understand that this is a serious Interlocal Agreement. Contrary to... Indeference to the Manager, but in contrary to what he has stated as it relates to the Oversight Board's approval of the budget. The Oversight Board approved this budget in September of '97. I was not here, you weren't here. In January... In December, on December 30th a new Commission with you in the wings as the Manager, the Commission approved the budget which in effect was the same budget with some changes that was approved in September by the Commission as a part of it's annual budget process which had already... which had subsequently been approved by the Oversight Board. So, Mr. Manager, the Oversight Board has approved the budget that had the fire fees in it, twice. As I said before, I would not have proposed the fire fees and I have some considerations about that. But, at the same time, the press said they couldn't get me yesterday, and they don't know where I am. I have said repeatedly, the worst thing that we can do individually, as a Commission, is to impose or double the garbage fees on the homeowners. And, this is a trick. It's a ugly, dirty, mean -spirited trick on the homeowners. The people who have nowhere else to go. The people who have reached the golden age of their life. The people who own homes to bear the brunt, the 100 percent brunt of any revenue enhancement. Because, to double the garbage fees is not to double the garbage fees. That's double talk. To double the garbage fees, is to double the homeowner garbage fees. Because we don't collect the commercial. We don't collect from the condominiums. We don't collect from the apartments. So, when the Commission is talking about doubling the garbage fees, they are not talking about doubling the garbage fees. They are talking about double the garbage fees on the people who pay the lion share of the taxes in this City. And, I might also add, the people who really vote in this City. And, so I have said, from every time that we have started, if the garbage fee were a part of a bigger package, I would support it because I don't think the homeowners should be left out if there is a burden to be borne. But, if the homeowners are going to be the people who share the lion share or the 90 percent 100 percent as it's been talked about in the past and apparently two Commissioners yesterday, saw in the press... Well, I am in favor of doubling the garbage fee. And, the press says they don't know where I am. I have said repeatedly the same thing that I am saying now. The last person I am going to double a fee on are the people who are seniors, own their homes, people who have homes, and there is no way to segregate that. Taxes in the City of Miami are the highest in all of Dade County. Ten mils, nine point eight mils. Nine point... How many mils, Mr. Manager? How many mils are we? Chairman Hernandez: Almost nine point nine. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Nine five four. I think it is. Nine point five four. Vice Chairman Teele: Nine point five four. In Coral Gables which we like to pattern ourselves after apparently, it's five... is about five mills. Commissioner Plummer: That's correct. Vice Chairman Teele: Half of that. Commissioner Plummer: But, their garbage fee is outside. Vice Chairman Teele: So, the fact of the matter is, is that we need to really, and I believe, Mr. Manager, with all due respect. I believe it's more like nine point eight, but I'll take your word for it. Mayor Carollo: Slightly higher. Excuse me. Chairman Hernandez: Higher. 16 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Plummer: It's nine point nine five five nine Vice Chairman Teele: I think it's like... As high as statutorily, it can be without, you know, giggling... If you giggled the numbers again, you go over ten percent... over ten mils, as I understand it. But, in any event. Commissioner Gort: Eleven percent. [phonetic] Commissioner Plummer: That's with debt service. Vice Chairman Teele: Let's, let's, let's suffice it to say that when you add on the bond... the bond issues as well, it exceeds ten mils. The statutory cap in the State of Florida, the only City in the whole State of Florida, the only major urban City with a 10 mil is the City of Miami. Now, that hurts the homeowner. Commissioner Plummer: That's not true. Vice Chairman Teele: Everybody cries these crocodiles tears every time we start talking about CDBG (Community Development Block Grant) money... Commissioner Plummer: Golden Beach has 26. They imposed it themselves. Vice Chairman Teele: ... and we want to help people that are on seniors, and we want to help... The best way to help senior... seniors is to keep their property taxes low. And, the garbage fee on a homeowner is a property tax. You can call it anything you want to, but it's a lien, let me put it that way. It has the effect of being a lien. So, I want to basically, again say, I don't believe the budget numbers. I didn't. I said it before when it was presented. I said I would vote to support it, to move it forward. I don't believe the numbers. I don't believe that five million dollars ($5,000,000) can appear out of thin air. I said that when we voted on it the last time and sent it forward. I have great trepidation about the lack of financial... about the Finance Department's weighing in on these numbers. The numbers appear to be driven by the Budget Office. I don't think the Budget Office should be in a position to make midyear corrections because the Budget Office should be more involved in projections. The Finance Office should be telling us where we are. We came up with money out of... the miracle money came from savings, paper savings on health insurance which, if these are real numbers, then why didn't we see it on September 30th when we had one full year, and you cannot make me believe respectfully that all of a sudden in 90 days, we are seeing three million dollars ($3,000,000) shaking out of the air, thin air. I would like to believe that the budget is in balance. I want to believe the Manager. I think the Manager has put his head to the task, and his shoulders to the grindstone. And, I have great respect for the Manager, and I have asked the Manager repeatedly to please bolster the Finance Office, so we are not in the situation like we were in that got us in where we had one office making all of the justification for numbers. And, as it relates to the Public Finance Management, they recommended disapproval. To put the record completely, they recommended disapproval of our January budget in writing. Right, Mr. Manager? When the Oversight Board recommended approval. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: They recommended disapproval of the five-year plan. Vice Chairman Teele: Of the five-year plan. So, this Oversight Board, and you know, they can defend themselves, and they could speak for themselves, has been independent. They have tried to look at the numbers. There is no reason that any member of this Commission cannot go to the Oversight Board meetings and listen for themselves. There is no reason quite frankly why any member of the Oversight Board cannot petition the board on any matter to be heard and the board given constraints and time will hear us. So, I don't think we ought to engage in this 17 March 19, 1998 "them" and "they" dialogue. I think it's very dangerous, because as I read the agreement that you all agreed to, it gives the Governor the authority to move us out of the way. And, and, you know, this is you know, chicken, if you want to play chicken. But, I don't think it's a very prudent use of our time to play chicken with the Oversight Board. Because, at the end of the day, they are the ones that vote. It's not a unanimous vote. It's not a vote by the Commission and a vote by the Oversight Board that they take over. All they have got to say is, we don't agree. We don't agree, you have got 20 days to clear it. They'll probably give us another 20 days after that, because they don't want to take over this City. But, I think if we don't address their concerns, we give them no choice. Now, all that is to say this. Do we in fact have fire trucks out of service in Liberty City, Mr. Manager? Because, you see, this is what I kept saying is going to happen with the budget that we've got. We don't have enough money to run this City? Commissioner Plummer: We did for 24 hours. Vice Chairman Teele: And, we have got fire trucks out of service Commissioner Plummer: We are covered by other stations. Vice Chairman Teele: ... then I think there should be fire trucks out of service in Coconut Grove, on Brickell, in Little Havana. You know, let's rotate the pain. Let's not pick out one group and say that the trucks are going to be out of service there. Now, let's be fair about this thing because this is what I have been saying all along it's going to be the results of not having a sufficient budget to operate in a proper and efficient manner, and somebody is going to get hurt as we roll this thing down hill. And, it's going to be the people at the bottom of the hill. And, Mr. Mayor, with all due respect to you, and you being the Presiding Officer, I will roll... raise hell every day in this Commission if this City begins to do what I see it doing. And, that is, taking everything off and... balancing this budget on the backs of the communities that have traditionally been screwed. And, if you don't know whose been screwed in this town, all you have got to do is, go drive through and look at the streets. All you have got to do is, look at the CD (Community Development) allocation of who has historically gotten money and who hadn't gotten money. And, I want an answer. [APPLAUSE] No, no, no, please don't do that. Please don't do... I want an answer, Mr. Manager, what is the status of that fire truck? Because that fire truck is a direct byproduct of a budget in crisis. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: My understanding Commissioner is that the... there was a shutdown for 24 hours of one station covered by other stations, that's station 12. And, that the Chief has taken... Commissioner Plummer: He's right behind you. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: ... a number of steps. In fact, the Chief is here, if you want to inquire directly to deal with that situation on a going forward basis. Vice Chairman Teele: Mr. Mayor, I would like very much, because this directly relates to the budget, and the whole problem that we have got with the fire fee, or lack of a fire fee. Mayor Carollo: Chief, go ahead. Fire Chief Gimenez: Yes, sir. We did have a fire truck. A pumper out of service at Station 12 which covers parts of Liberty City. It was out for a period of about a day due to the fact that we have an old aging fire fleet, and we just ran into problems where a lot of these trucks went out of service at the same time. Currently, there is a fire truck at Station 12. We have placed some of our units back into service and we have spares available in order to cover any other front line apparatus that may go out. But, in fact, it is due in part the current state of the fleet. 18 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Plummer: Was not the area covered by...? Vice Chairman Teele: Excuse me. I have the floor. Commissioner Plummer: Oh, I am sorry. Vice Chairman Teele: Do we have spares? Fire Chief Gimenez: Yes, sir, we do. Vice Chairman Teele: Why was not a spare assigned to station? Fire Chief Gimenez: At that point we did not have any spares. But we have placed more people in our maintenance facility. We have got more trucks repaired. We have put front line apparatus back in service and we have also repaired some of the spare apparatus. The reason that a pumper was not put at Station 12 was because there were no spares available. We did put an extra rescue in that station to try and cover the best we could. Vice Chairman Teele: But, the union is correct, when they state that for 24 hours Hadley Park which protects the citizen in the Northwest section of town has been broken down for 24 hours. Is the union correct when they say, to add insult to injury, the rest of the departments of the County have either refused to lend the City a truck or don't have spares? Now, do we have an interlocal agreement or do we have a mutual aid agreement with the County? Fire Chief Gimenez: Yes, sir. We do. And, we at this point, right now, we have three borrowed fire trucks. One from Metro -Dade, one from Hialeah, and one from Miami Beach. All those three trucks are being used as we speak. We asked Metro -Dade, our Support Service Chief asked for another truck and they did not have one available, that's why that truck went out of service at Station 12. Vice Chairman Teele: And, the truck was engine 12, is that correct? Fire Chief Gimenez: That's correct. Engine 12. Vice Chairman Teele: And, that is the truck that is normally stationed at Hadley? Fire Chief Gimenez: That's one of the trucks that's stationed there. We also have a rescue and a squad station there. Commissioner Regalado: Commissioner Teele... Vice Chairman Teele: If... Mayor Carollo: Excuse me, excuse me. Gentlemen, if I may, so we don't keep getting into these small problems. I know that once people get used to doing things a certain way for four months, they forget how to do it back the way that it used to be. But, if I may politely, respectfully ask of each of you, that before you take the floor, you go through the Chair, get acknowledge so you could speak. So, this way we could proceed a lot quicker, follow the rules and regulations that we have established in the past in this Commission, and at the same time, as you all know, each of you, will always be given by me whatever time you need to express yourself, to ask whatever questions you need. And, all the space that you would need to speak before this body. Commissioner Teele, are you finished yet or not, sir? You let me know when you are. 19 March 19, 1998 Vice Chairman Teele: Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. Let me indicate, Chief that to the extent that the Manager would allow, if there is ever going to be an area that I represent that is unprotected, I would appreciate if you or someone through the Manager's Office would inform me. I am grateful to the Miami Association of Firefighters. I have a great respect for Mr. Gabriel and his staff and the firefighters. But, I think in all fairness, as a Commissioner, I should be afforded the information through the Manager and through your office. And, I really don't think that I should receive the fax at the same time that he is faxing it out to the press. Mr. Gabriel did, of course, which then, of course, runs all sorts of news stories about what's going on in the district that I represent. Fire Chief Gimenez: Yes, sir. Vice Chairman Teele: And, I want you to know, and I want to apologize to the citizens of the district, that I was not aware of it. I was... It was brought to my attention the same time it was brought to the press' attention, and obviously it makes it appear that... It's an embarrassment to me. And, I think it's no need to have a Commissioner embarrassed unless that's... Well, I just think there is no need for any Commissioner to be embarrassed, and I would hope that you would extend the same courtesy to any of my colleagues that represent a district, if this should ever happen again. And, I hope that it won't. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Regalado. Commissioner Regalado: No, Mr. Mayor, I just was mentioning to Commissioner Teele that we have the Chairman of the Fire, Dade County Fire Board, Bob Godoy, here in case that we needed to address some issues with the Metro Fire Department. But, basically, I was going to just say that on the issue of doubling the garbage fee, I agree with Commissioner Teele, and I should say that because the Manager has to come up with more plans and bring it to this Commission, and he deserves to know what is the will of this Commission. So, that is what I think about exactly what Commissioner Teele said on doubling the garbage fee. Commissioner Plummer: Two things. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Plummer. Commissioner Plummer: Two things. First and foremost, to my colleague, in attending the meeting last night of the Condos Association, they wish to remind, and I am bringing it only to the table that through their garbage they create no expense to the City because the City does not have to pick up their garbage, and second of all, that in fact, they do pay a fee by virtue of whatever they pay the private hauler, 15 percent of their gross goes to the City. Number two, Mr. Manager, since something is not being said here, in this particular item of this Community Block Grant money, I took to the task of you and the Fire Chief at the last meeting to put in, is it not two million dollars ($2,000,000) for new equipment? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: I thought it was more like two and a half. Commissioner Plummer: Well, it was in excess of two. So, I want the people of the community to know, that yes, the reason I fought the battle to bring in, was because of the deplorable condition and that in fact, in what we are doing today, assuming that it will pass, there is in excess of two million dollars ($2,000,000) for fire equipment. Am I correct? I am using... Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Let me clarify the numbers. What we have as a result of your... the discussion you had at the last Commission meeting in this year, a million one plus a million three or two million four. 20 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Plummer: OK, fine. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Plus one million five next year. Commissioner Plummer: Fine, OK. But, this year, in this budget... Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Two million four. Commissioner Plummer: ... that we are talking about and the block grant money... Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: That's... Commissioner Plummer: ... of today, is two point four? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Yes, from the CDBG (Community Development Block Grant) money is two hundred and fifty thousand. Commissioner Plummer: OK, but we are going for a total of, in excess of two million dollars ($2,000,000). Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Two million four... Commissioner Plummer: Thank you. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: ... this year. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Just want it on the record. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Gort, anything else you need to add? Commissioner Gort: All I will want is a report for the next Commission meeting and whenever possible from the Chief the conditions where we are at. And, my understanding is, we have proved, and that should have never happened. And, I agree with Commissioner Teele that we should have known about it. But, I would like to know where we stand right now with the... My understanding is, we approved in the past for parts. Because the biggest problem you have had is not having the parts, parts were not being purchased before. And, my understanding is, we have been... we have approved those, so I would like -- not now, Chief -- I would like for you to give me a report where we stand on all those. Commissioner Plummer: You feel bad. I am Chairman of Public Safety. Mayor Carollo: All right, Mr. Manager, I think we could go back now to the regular scheduled item in today's meeting. Community Development project funding. Go ahead, sir. And, if I may add? Once the Commission has ample time to hear your presentation, your recommendations, to discuss it among themselves, then I will open it up for the public for any statements that anyone would like to make, limited to two minutes per person. If there are individuals representing an organization, it will be two minutes per the organization, also. Mr. Jose Garcia -Pedrosa: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Vice Chairman Teele: Presiding Officer, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Yes. 21 March 19, 1998 Vice Chairman Teele: Let me... Let me seek to clarify the ruling of the Chair. First, I think the Commission has been misinformed as it relates to the status of this meeting. This meeting, and until... Mayor Carollo: It's a carryover from a previous meeting. It's not a special meeting. Vice Chairman Teele: Yeah. This meeting was not adjourned, contrary to what was opined. Now, we need to clear that up. Mayor Carollo: That was, I believe. Yeah, that was done already. Yeah. Commissioner Plummer: We have already done it. I brought it up before we started. Vice Chairman Teele: No, but subse... Mr. Joel E. Maxwell, Esq. (Interim City Manager): May I? May I clarify that? May I clarify that please? Under... Under Masons Rules of Legislative Procedure what you follow, the expression continued is... They used the expression "adjourned to." It means the same thing under Masons Rules. It... The meeting was... The Commissioner is correct, the meeting was not adjourned, it was continued. So, we use the proper expression "adjourned to" that Masons use and then parenthetically we said, "continued." So, the Commissioner is right, it was continued. But, we followed Masons Rules for noticing the meeting and also using the standard verbage "continued." Vice Chairman Teele: OK, and Mr. Mayor, if I may? Mayor Carollo: Go ahead. Go ahead. Vice Chairman Teele: The meeting was continued. The Clerk has... And, the reason this is important is three fold. Number one, the public hearing has already been held. Chairman Hernandez: Uh-huh. Vice Chairman Teele: Now, if the Presiding Officer, the Mayor chooses to reopen the public hearing that of course, is your right subject to a decision of the Commission. But, the public hearing has been held, and not only was this public hearing held, the committee held three public hearings on it. Not only did the committee hold public hearings, the Community Development Board held public hearings. And, I think that it's important that that be built into the record as we move forward. I think it's important that the Chair know, that there are certain people that have quasi authority, that have expressed some very real concern about the process, and I am referring now to the members of the Community Development Board, they can speak for themselves. But, I think it's very important that the record be clear and that we not make any procedural mistakes given the fact that we are under a HUD (Department of Housing and Urban Development) audit, and given the fact that we do need to ensure that our procedures fully comply with, not only the County... the City rules, and regulations, but more important, the Federal rules which would require a 30-day notice. And, that's why it's important that that meeting have not been... Chairman Hernandez: Adjourned. Vice Chairman Teele: ... adjourned, but the meeting be continued because if it had been adjourned, we could not meet on that at this time. 22 March 19, 1998 Mayor Carollo: That's right. Vice Chairman Teele: I also think that it's important that the Chair take note of the fact that a public hearing has been held. But, we have given great deference in the past, at least the committee did, to the Community Development Board, which as you know are people that we appoint to be our quasi advisors on the process, they were afforded the opportunity to speak. And, I would ask at a minimum, that rather than a public hearing that the board be afforded the opportunity so that we can perfect the record properly. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, first of all, let me thank you for bringing that out. I realize now that was done at the last meeting, but I did not want anyone here to think that in my first meeting back, that I did not want to let anyone have the opportunity to address this body. I have no problem to proceeding without any comments from the public. And, now that you've clarified what happened, and that everyone will understand that it's not the presiding person of this board that's holding anyone from speaking. It would help to move this forward a lot quicker, so, if we can go back to the Manager and proceed, I am sure we will get done with this quite quickly, hopefully. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and members of the Commission. At the March loth Commission meeting, the Commission adopted the staff's recommendations concerning allocations for the CDBG (Community Development Block Grant) funding for year 24. But, you did two other things which bring us here. First of all, you instructed us to seek an extension of time from the Federal Department of Housing and Urban Development, and we have done so. A letter was written to HUD asking for a 30-day extension. We were told verbally that staff at HUD recommends that extension be granted. We look forward to receiving a favorable response and have every reason to believe that that will be the case, and that will extend our time from April 15 to May 15, 1998. The other thing you did was to continue or... I guess that's the proper term, the meeting to this date and time so that you might have an opportunity to revisit the allocations proposed. And, you also asked us to take heed of the comments made at the March 10th meeting and present to you some revisions that would reflect hopefully those comments. I am going to ask Gwendolyn Warren who is the head of our Community Development Department to make that presentation as briefly as possible so that we might explain to you and to the public what the changes are since the last time. But, before I do that, let me just make one observation that is not in your materials in case you wish to take this into consideration at the conclusion of this meeting. And, that is, that there are some six and a half million dollars ($6,500,000) in CDBG funding which could, if you chose to, all or some of it be utilized as one of the mechanisms to relieve the General Fund of obligations and help us put together a package in the next 20 days. So, I mention that to you because it is not part of our presentation. Obviously, the Oversight Board meeting just ended last night at six or sixty thirty, or seven. But, it's something you may want to... Commissioner Plummer: It's interesting. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: ... bear in mind. There are some pieces here that are mandatory, most of it is not. Commissioner Plummer: Six million. Up to six million. Commissioner Gort: From where? Commissioner Plummer: From Community Development could be used in the General Fund. Yeah. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: And, some of it, much of it is available to fund the NET (Neighborhood Enhancement Team) programs and some other things that you want to bear in mind. 23 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Plummer: Obviously, we would have to Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: And, with that, Mr. Mayor, if you will permit and recognize Gwen Warren, I would ask her to go ahead and make a brief presentation. Mayor Carollo: Go ahead. Mr. Gwendolyn C. Warren (Director/Community Development Department): Yes. Mayor and Honorable Commissioners. Staff again, as the Manager has indicated, you accepted staff recommendations, continued the meeting 'till today. On the record, the Commission voiced some concerns about the availability of funds to allow new agencies and activities to be introduced into the process, and at the same time, you wanted to ensure that there was no adverse impact on agencies or organizations that were providing a good service to the community. You also had a concern that, if in fact new agencies or organizations were going to be allowed into the process, that there be some equitable means of making funds available. Staff is recommending that in the Public Service and Social Programs area, that we do across the board reduction in staff recommendations of four point six percent, and additionally, we are requesting that... We are recommending that the YMCA (Young Men Catholic Association) Childcare project proposal, that the staff's recommendation be increased from nineteen to forty thousand dollars ($40,000) because, again, of the unique services. That would make available if the recommendation to do across the board four point seven percent reduction, an additional twenty- six thousand dollars ($26,000) to the Commission for redistribution either to fund new agencies, or whatever your pleasure. That would however, bring us to the maximum of our 15 percent cap in that category. Additionally, under our CDBG Housing Program there was a full discussion among the Commissioners regarding the need to increase funding allocations to some of the agencies that were administering housing programs. The concern obviously was the limitation on available funds. One of the impact issues that it appears, and again, we are seeking clarification at this time, that the County may have turned... changed the policy thus not allowing or affording administrative cost to agencies that are operating in the City of Miami and has inadvertently impacted some of our housing organizations. So, again, based on those concerns, and the need to increase some administrative support dollars to our housing agencies, staff is making a proposal that we have identified six organizations that we are recommending increasing funding for. The increase would be for approximately three million fifteen thousand in order to, which is over our currently approved allocation in that category. Staff is recommending in order to fund those projects, that we revise our current policies and allow those organizations who operate HOME Programs... Traditionally, the City has not used the HOME Program for... to pay administrative cost. It is an allowable activity. We have some of the organizations that are being funded under CDBG Housing that are eligible for administrative dollars under HOME. We are recommending that those organizations, we have identified four, that their administrative dollars come from the HOME Program, thus freeing up two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) under CDBG Housing and the additional one hundred and fifteen thousand come from our Public Facilities project. Additionally, the Commission had voiced under a very strong concern regarding a 108, Section 108 loan that was being administered through the Community Redevelopment agency, that needed to be paid. Again, to minimize any additional impact. We have identified that those funds be paid for out of the Public Facilities Improvement project as well as a ten thousand dollar ($10,000) grant for a park improvement project, for a total reduction in our Public Facilities Improvement Program of five hundred and sixty-five thousand four hundred and twenty-eight dollars ($565,428) which would bring the staff's recommendations from two million nine twenty to two million three fifty-five. We are still not... The Overtown Cultural Center plan, staff is consistent with our recommendation that that not be funded because of the impact on the administrative cap, but that the Planning Department be directed to complete that study. We are making no revisions to the administrative allocation, the Emergency Shelter Grant (ESG) and/or HOPWA (Housing Opportunities for People With Aids). 24 March 19, 1998 Mr. Jose Garcia -Pedrosa: I think that concludes our presentation, Mr. Mayor, unless you have any questions of us now. Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Does the members of the Commission have any questions at this point in time? Commissioner Gort: I have a question. Commissioner Regalado: Yeah, I do. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Gort. Commissioner Plummer: A lot. Commissioner Gort: One of the questions that I have is, my understanding is, in order to fund new agencies, you put a cross cut, four percent across all the existing agencies. Ms. Warren: Social Services. Commissioner Gort: Social services. But, yet, when I look at them, some of them... you're adding over two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) to existing... some existing agencies. In other words, the cut has not been all across. Some of them had received a cut of four percent which hurts them quite a bit in providing services. Ms. Warren: OK. Commissioner Gort: But, yet, other agencies are receiving over two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) in addition to their request, or to the recommendations. Ms. Warren: Could you identify one, sir? Commissioner Gort: Yes. Number one, the City of Miami Parks Disable. Ms. Warren: Which number, sir? Commissioner Gort: Number two... OK, I am sorry. That would be... Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: That's 19, on page one. Commissioner Gort: Number 19. Ms. Warren: Uh-huh. Commissioner Gort: Number sixty-five. Commissioner Plummer: Wait, wait wait. Commissioner Gort: Number three, the City of Miami Homeless, and... Commissioner Plummer: It's 3E. Commissioner Gort: ... 1E. These are the Emergency Shelter Grants (ESG), and this... 25 March 19, 1998 Ms. Warren: Yes. Jose will answer that. [phonetic] Mr. Jose Cerdan (Acting Asst. Director/Community Development Block Grants Division): Commissioner, the... in the case of number nineteen, on page one. Commissioner Gort: Right. Mr. Cerdan: City of Miami Parks Disable. We took four point seventy-six percent from the request given the need of the General Fund to address the financial expenses of the project. So, you are right in the sense that we have increased the allocation as opposed to this year allocation. Commissioner Gort: No, I am sorry. You took the four percent off which amount? The current allocation? Ms. Warren: The recommended. Commissioner Gort: The request... Ms. Warren: The recommendation. Commissioner Gort: ... or the recommendation? Ms. Cerdan: From the... Commissioner Gort: Which recommendation CD Board (Community Development), ED (Economic Development) or Commission. Ms. Warren: Staff recommendation. Mr. Cerdan: From City staff. The original City staff recommendation, column number three. Ms. Warren: Again, what the Commission did at the last meeting is, you accepted staff recommendations. And, what our recommendation today is, that based on you acceptance of staff recommendations, we are recommending a modification of staff recommendations to be lowered by four point six seven percent. So, versus the amount that they received in prior years it was what was recommended this year. Commissioner Regalado: How much money? Mr. Mayor. How much money we have to fund new programs, you set aside? You said one hundred thousand? Ms. Warren: One hundred and... Commissioner Plummer: One twenty-six o seven. Ms. Warren: Yes, sir. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Four point seven. Ms. Warren: One twenty-six o twenty-seven. One hundred... Commissioner Regalado: OK, Commissioner Gort mentioned something that is very important. On the four percent or five percent cut that... there are some organizations that will be really hurt. One thousand dollars ($1,000) less, means ten or five children less. Because, we all know, and the public should know, the public watching that, the money that we give them, it's 26 March 19, 1998 matching funds. They will get the same amount of money. And, a dollar ($1) that we give to those centers will produce three or four, five dollars ($5) for them. So, my question is, in particular cases, can we use some of this set aside money to at least bring to what they have now the amount of money that will be approving today? Ms. Warren: If the Commission approve staff, the amended staff recommendations, it's up to the discretion of the Commission as to what you would then do with the set aside funds. Commissioner Regalado: OK. Mr. City Attorney, do we need to do one motion for each project? Ms. Linda Kearson, Esq. (Asst. City Attorney): You need to specify in the record where you would like to appropriate the additional dollars. Commissioner Regalado: OK. Commissioner Plummer: Can we make more discussion first? Commissioner Regalado: No, no, I am just asking about the process. I don't plan to do a motion, although I will whenever the time is right. Ms. Kearson: Yeah, well, unless you are going to recommend the existing programs by "X" percentage. All of them, you would have to recommend individually. Commissioner Regalado: No, right. But, like Commissioner Gort said, there are some programs that have more, some programs that have much less. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, when you spoke of six million dollars ($6,000,000) to be taken from this and put into the General Fund, where from? I mean, did you delineate where you would take the money from? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Yeah, why don't you look at page, if you would please, sir, 13 and 15? You have line item, Public Services and Social Programs is two point three million. Economic Development is one point six million and change, and Public Works, Public Facilities rather, is three point two million. Commissioner Gort: Thirteen... Thirteen out of fifteen. Commissioner Plummer: Thirteen out of... I don't think you are talking to the same page. Commissioner Regalado: No, 13 out of 15 is not... Commissioner Gort: Are we talking about 3/18 of '98? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Yes. Commissioner Gort: That's not in my 13... Page 13 is not here. Commissioner Plummer: No, it's not page 13. Mayor Carollo: Page 13 of 15. Ms. Kearson: Thirteen of fifteen. 27 March 19, 1998 Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Thirteen of fifteen. Commissioner Gort: Thirteen of fifteen. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Three pages from the bottom of the whole thing. Ms. Kearson: Right here. Mayor Carollo: It's there... Commissioner Gort: This, OK? Mayor Carollo: It's in the middle. Commissioner Gort: Oh, you are talking about the totals. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Look at City Commission column which is the last column with numbers and the descriptions are immediately to your right. Those three figures by Gwendolyn's hand math add up to seven point one or seven point two million dollars ($7,200,000). Commissioner Plummer: My next question is to whomever? As you know, my basic concept of social service monies has always been and will continue to be, we feed the hungry, we take care of the sick, any money left over, we will argue about. With the special note, I look at, I never can pronounce it right. Dr. Rafael... Commissioner Gort: Penalver. Commissioner Plummer: ... Penalver Clinic, zero dollars. Yet, I go back and I look at some of the other, and I am not naming any names, Intervention Program for Offenders, Youth Leadership, Job Training, Sewing Machine Training, and we are saying "no" to a facility that does a tremendous job in the community. I find that impossible to justify in my mind. I also find it hard to justify in my mind, where one of the feeding programs is now going to have to tell 27 people or 30 people, or however many people that because we have been cut four percent, don't come back tomorrow because there will not be any food here. I find it difficult to say to a mother of a child who is going to be told tomorrow, that because you... we have been cut four percent, we can no longer take care of your kids. I drove by Centro Mater yesterday, as I do quite frequently, and I looked at the program that they have there and the amount of money that they spend and I try to equate that to what the City of Miami spends for day care. You know what? We ought to turn it all over to Centro Mater. All of it. Because, they are providing a care not for, and I am trying to put anybody down. Our daycare is for the middle income people of the community, and God bless them, they are the two dollar ($2) betters. But, if we are subsidizing anything, it ought to be for the people who are of need. The people that you see, the cars that drive up to Centro Mater, and I stayed there yesterday watching. They are not the middle income people. And, those are the people that we should be trying to address rather than the middle income. If we have money left over and we have accommodated all of the poor people, the needy people. I hate to use the word, poor. The needy people. That in my opinion, fine, then we can go one step up and say, we will take care of the middle aged. But, I cannot vote for this as presented to me to cut food programs, to cut child daycare programs under any circumstances. So, I just give you that for what it's worth department. I look back here, Homeless Shelter for male substance abusers. My God, look at the money that's being thrown fifteen million dollars ($15,000,000) to build a substance facility downtown. And, I am not even going to go into whether it's successful or it's not, for 350 people. But, you are talking forty-nine thousand dollars ($49,000). Homeless for Family Support, eighty thousand. City of Miami, Assistance to People, here we have monies that are running out of our ears for AIDS and training 28 March 19, 1998 of AIDS, and why it's not coming out of a program that you are giving twenty-eight thousand dollars ($28,000), it would seem like with the nine million that we have over here on the other side for the AIDS programs that it would come from there, and not cut from the kids. So, I am just saying to you that, you did a good job, I guess. But, I can't agree with it, and I will not agree with it, and I cannot vote under the circumstances as it's proffered here today. Mayor Carollo: Go ahead. Ms. Warren: Commissioner, we are very sensitive to your concerns, and I think staff shares them. But, just one area of correction. If in fact, we were able to do the reduction, whatever percentage the Commission chose, it would allow us to fund items such as the Medical Services Program. The reason why it's not currently being recommended. One it was not a previously funded program which is why we are recommending the reduction so that we can allow in new projects and so that we can reprioritize. One of the things the City has consistently done over several years, is to continue to fund the same programs at the funding amount available and not allow for new agencies to get in. Our recommendation where, yes, it would inadvertently impact some organizations again. With a friendly amendment you would be able to chose those agencies that you did not want to have an adverse impact, but it would allow you to do what you are asking, so that you could have a medical service program that's currently being excluded because it's a new service provider. So, if in fact you were to adopt staff recommendations, use the set aside funds to fund new projects such as this one, and also possibly use it to minimize the impact on agencies that are providing a unique service. And, I agree with you. Mayor Carollo: Anybody else? Commissioner Regalado: No, that's precisely what I said. I agree with Commissioner Plummer, and this is why I am ready to present motions in order to rectify what I see are some problems. But, what I am not just quite sure, Mr. Manager is, your views on using some of the money that you mentioned to defray cost from the general budget. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Here is what I am going to recommend to you, if I may do it now, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Go ahead. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: I think you ought to go through this process and try to reach some conclusions that you are comfortable with in terms of allocation. But in light of the fact that this situation of the Oversight Board just happened yesterday, and we will have 20 days from whenever we get the written notification which I expect to be today, to come up with a number of millions of dollars. And, I will tell you it's not a couple of millions of three or four or five. Commissioner Plummer: It's going to be six. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: No, I hope it would be six. But, I am not even... I don't think that's... Commissioner Plummer: Convenient. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: My suggestion, my strong suggestion to you is going to be that you leave the matter open, at least sufficiently so that we will have an opportunity to do that which we have not been able to do since last night. And, that is, to go back over this whole CDBG (Community Development Block Grant) budget, and also come to you with some other alternatives for the additional funding that the Oversight Board is demanding, I guess is the right word. And, then, at a subsequent time finalize your action on this. But, I think that the exercise of reviewing... For example, as Commissioner Plummer has just done, and expressing concerns 29 March 19, 1998 and looking at line items and so on, is probably something that we might as well get done, then let's come back after we have had an opportunity to give you the benefit of our thinking on the possibility of tapping into this source. Because, I will tell you, if I may just take another moment, Mayor, as I thought between last night and this morning, the little bit that I could sleep last night after the Oversight Board meeting, as to what funds... what sources of funding there... Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: ... really are there to produce millions of dollars... Mayor Carollo: Uh-huh. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: ... quickly. We are talking about this fiscal year... Commissioner Plummer: Twenty days. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: ... and a plan to be presented like in 20 days. I can only think of three. This is one, the fire -fee is another, and the Solid Waste fee is another. And, I heard Commissioner Regalado loud and clear, Commissioner Teele loud and clear. So, we... you need to give yourselves, it seems to me, an opportunity thoughtfully to consider those three alternatives with better information from us than we are able to give you now. So, that's going to be my suggestion at the... Commissioner Plummer: Then, I have to ask a question. And I read you loud and clear, and you are the Manager, and you have got to recommend to this Commission. Of the three areas that you just explored, two of them are dead items. Let's call it like it is. Two are dead items. The garbage fee, there is enough negative here as there is positive. The fire fee there is as much more negative than there is positive. And, so what you are telling me as my Manager, there is only one other area that you can find to get it out of. Tell me if I am wrong. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Well, I am not willing to say that the fire fee, the Solid Waste fee issue is double or nothing. And, I hope that you are not... That's not what I have heard either. Commissioner Plummer: Even if you double it, what is it, nine point eight? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Ten point five. But, double or nothing is not in my judgment... Commissioner Plummer: Oh, I understand what you are saying. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: ...to define the opportunities there. So, what I would hope you would do, and I really... I really want to say this, you know, strongly, if I may use that word. Give us a chance to come back with the numbers on the three alternatives. I think you are right. I think the fire fee for a different reason, apart from the positions taken by the Commission before, is a difficult one, and that is, the likelihood that we had before of litigation which could affect collections in the current year. And, that's not to say that you may not consider it for subsequent years, but we are talking about 20 days to come up with millions of dollars for the next six months. Commissioner Plummer: I have one othe Ms. Warren: Yes. r to quit. To the and checked their know, I sit on the 30 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Plummer: ... that was turned down and denied and disallowed? And yet, I am finding it where we are recommending to fund. There are cases back here that I am going to have to rely on tremendously of areas of the Housing. And, there was one in there, BAME. Just using that as an example. I don't know who they are. I don't know, are they a local group? Ms. Warren: They are a local group. Commissioner Plummer: How long have they been in business? What I am saying is, I don't need to know. All I need to know is, that you have gone into the background of each one of these groups, and find them to be capable of doing what we are giving them money to do, OK? You know, I find it hard, and I'll just put it on the record that we are denying a group known as DEEDCO. DEEDCO is a group that is wanting to put something down. They are not doing any money whatsoever. The only other program did... Was there any consideration given...? And I guess it's weird for me to ask. But, I promised the people of this City and the people that are backing for the money for the cemetery downtown. Yeah, you laugh, OK. I told Ms. Gibson, we ain't going to let Father out at night. NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Mayor Carollo and Commissioner ort left the Chambers at 2:02 p.m., and returned at 2:03 p.m. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: You have a conflict of interest. Commissioner Plummer: And, I have a conflict of interest. My question is, is there any consideration been given for the purposes of what they are asking, whether it's in...? I don't even know what category it would come under. But, I promised them I was going to fight for 'em, and I want to know which way I need to fight because I am going to fight. Was there any consideration given, if so, why was it not considered or why was it turned down, and what flexibility do we possibly have? I know it's not a Social Service Program, that I know. Ms. Warren: It's under Public Facilities. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Mr. Warren: The amount of the request is modest, and there is a City budget there and there are options available. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Is that on page 11? Commissioner Plummer: Are you telling me that if we don't fund the one hundred and ten thousand dollars ($110,000), you got other monies? Is that what you are telling me? Ms. Warren: No. Commissioner Plummer: What...? Ms. Warren: What I am saying is that depending on what the final recommendations are... We are on 11. Commissioner Plummer: What page are you on? 31 March 19, 1998 Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Eleven of fifteen, I think. Isn't that...? Ms. Warren: I can't find it. We are trying to find it. Commissioner Plummer: Number five. City of Miami Downtown NET (Neighborhood Enhancement Team). Which...? Where is it, please? Ms. Warren: Item number 48 on page 12. Commissioner Plummer: OK, one hundred and ten thousand. Ms. Warren: Uh-huh. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Uh-huh. Commissioner Plummer: OK. Why is that for WY? That's Wynwood on 19th Street? Ms. Warren: It's a typo. Commissioner Plummer: Oh. All right. Mayor Carollo: Where are you at? Commissioner Plummer: I am trying to talk about the cemetery, all right? And, I am not in a conflict of interest. Commissioner Gort: You are sure now? Commissioner Plummer: I am saying... Commissioner Gort: You don't service that cemetery? Commissioner Plummer: No. I don't make no money out it either. If you ever dealt with them you would know why. Mr. Manager... Mayor Carollo: Be careful when you are talking about the dead now. You know, remember what happened to Mr. Gibbs. Commissioner Plummer: Well, I counted his vote, also. I count all the absentees at the funeral home. Ms. Warren: Commissioner. Commissioner Plummer: Mr. Manager, I want you to know that whatever I can do, I am going to definitely fight for it, OK? That cemetery has been neglected. That cemetery is in dire need of honoring our community forefathers... Commissioner Gort: And, mothers. Commissioner Plummer: ... and mothers, OK. And, as far as I am concerned, I am not sure that I agree, but I don't disagree that the fence is the most important thing. But, if that's what they feel they need to get started to address the issue, then I am in favor of it. So, when the time comes, you raise the flag, and I am going to go to the war. 32 March 19, 1998 Ms. Warren: OK. I guess the only comment that staff would have is, as you will note, it's listed under Public Facilities Improvement. And, with the exception of the approvement of a City lot, and the Fire -Rescue Station allocation, we are recommending that the lion's share of the funds go into City sidewalks. Again, if you chose to do something else, it will to the discretion of the... Commissioner Plummer: OK. I hope my colleagues on the Commission will back, because I will be making the motion to fund that particular issue. Vice Chairman Teele: Mr. Chairman. Mayor Carollo: Go ahead, Commissioner. Vice Chairman Teele: Mr. Chairman. NOTE FOR THE RECORD: Vice Chairman Plummer and Commissioner ernan ez a the Chambers at 2:06 p.m. Commissioner Gort: Mr. Mayor, I think it's important in funding new projects that we set certain criterias for it. At the same time, let's face it, a lot of the existing projects, I think somehow we need to make sure they are performing. Because, what I hear from the CDBG Board members, and people that live in that neighborhood, that some of those agencies that are getting the funding, that they don't feel like service is being provided in those communities. So, I think... And, when I first came in here, we did away with four agencies. They were receiving funding and they were not performing. I think it is important the... We have the board that sits there, and if we have some of these agencies, they are not providing services, we should cut their money and try to get a chance to new... Put it out for bid. There will come a time when we will have to put everything out for bid. And, let the best person or the best provider win the funding. I think that's something that we should consider and do in our funding. What has been the past performance, and what is the future performance, and what services they provide. Ms. Warren: That's something that we are working on. Mayor Carollo: Good. Gentlemen. Commissioner Regalado: Mr. Mayor. Oh, I think that Commissioner Teele... No, I just want... I just want to say that I am ready to bring motions regarding particular problems. Vice Chairman Teele: Mister... Mayor Carollo: Excuse me, Commissioner, you said? Commissioner Regalado: I am saying that whenever we are ready, I'm ready to bring motions for different programs that need to be addressed. Mayor Carollo: OK. Commissioner Teele, go ahead. Vice Chairman Teele: I... Mr. Mayor, I want to have the Manager's attention when I speak. Mayor Carollo: I am sorry? Vice Chairman Teele: I said, respectfully, I would like to get the Manager's attention before I speak on that. 33 March 19, 1998 Mayor Carollo: Sure. Mr. Manager, if you would, please. I am sure we will have it, shortly. Vice Chairman Teele: Mr. Mayor, the Manager has made a very profound, although very gentile expression. Mayor Carollo: Yes, he has. Vice Chairman Teele: And, let me break the code for everybody that's here, so it's real clear. What the Manager asked us to do is not to vote on this today in final. But, to leave it open and give the management and the Commission the opportunity to rework this totally with a view toward four... making available four million dollars ($4,000,000) toward City operations. This Commissioner, in January stopped the Community Development process that was moving and asked that it be readvertised, which was done, Mr. Mayor... Mayor Carollo: Uh-huh. Vice Chairman Teele: ... to provide for greater participation by the departments. Because, I was concerned that there are some legitimate things, the kinds of things that Commissioner Plummer just alluded to. Legitimate things that a City of Miami's size would be expected to do, but normally, or just somehow could fall through the cracks. Mr. Mayor, the City of Miami is the largest City in the State of Florida, and I support and commend what Commissioner Plummer said about the cemetery. Who can be against moving monies from a sidewalk or a road improvement plan to giving respect for the dead, particularly those who paved the way for all of us to be here today? I mean, that's... That's right up there with the 4th of July, and apple pie, and mama's home cooking. You can't be against that. But, what the Manager... NOTE FOR THE RECORD: At 2:09 p.m., Commissioner ummer returns, and Hernandez left the Chambers. At 2:13 p.m., Commissioner Regalado returns, and at 2:14 p.m., Commissioner Hernandez returns. And, I think legitimately and appropriately is saying, is don't do anything today, we need four million dollars ($4,000,000) to balance the books. Now, I want to be very clear, Mr. Mayor. I will not support the cannibalizing, the raid on the poorest of the poor to support this City. Particularly, when this Commission does not have the political courage to do otherwise. Now, if this is political courage, well, this is a yellow bellied bunch of people. This is the dirtiest of the dirt that we can do. To talk now about raiding communities that don't have any help, other than Community Development. I don't take exception from what the Manager is saying, he is doing his job. And, you are between a rock and a hard place, Mr. Manager. Because, I can tell you right now, I did not say, I would not vote to increase garbage fees. I said, I would not vote to increase garbage fees on homeowners and that's the only solution. If that's a part of a balanced, comprehensive plan that this Commission, which we all like to, you know, go through the Tarzan act on when it's, you know, give away money time. If this Commission has got the integrity and the guts to vote for revenue enhancements then put me on board. I am on board, Mr. Manager. And, if it means increasing waste fees on households as a part of something that also affects condominiums and something that affects property owners, and something that affects rental homeowners, and rental apartment owners, count me in, Mr. Manager. I will not be a negative. I will be positive and support you. But, I am not going to provide political cover to a bunch of cowards, and that's what we are dealing with here. And, this is the most cowardly thing that I have heard, is to invite this Commission, Mr. Manager, it's not cowardly of you, it's 34 March 19, 1998 the smart thing for you, because you know what we are going to do. To go cannibalize now, and eat the poorest of the poor. We have got communities in this town that have City streets and City sidewalks that none of us would want our mothers and grandmothers to live in. And, while everybody wants to talk about medicine, and daycare, I have got to tell you, that's not the role of a City. The federal government spends hundreds of billions of dollars in Medicaid and Medicare. The state has a program for us. Nowhere in the... in a rolling scope study. The reason the City of Miami is so upside down, so screwed up, Mr. Mayor, it's because we have got everybody saying, we want to do everything. Why don't we just be a City? Why don't we go back and take Government Municipality 101? What does a City do? Ask any seventh grader? You provide streets; you provide sidewalks; you provide police; you provide fire; you provide certain types of basic inspections to ensure that the government functions properly. We are all out here doing all kinds of things which are good. Nobody can be against it. Nobody can be against feeding the homeless or feeding the elderly. But, that is not the role of the City of Miami. That is not the role of the municipality. We are doing a miserable job of what our mission is. Our mission is to provide basic municipal functions. And, I have never been more frustrated in a governmental body that is so upside down, so confused about what our mission is. What we were elected to do. We were not elected, with all due respect, to the elderly and to the children. The State of Florida has that responsibility. It's called Juvenile Programs. It's called the State Department of Health, Health Care Administration. Multi -billion dollar budget. There is nobody in America, there is nobody in Florida, that have as their responsibility to ensure that the streets; and the sidewalks and the traffic lights; and the guard gates and the things that are municipal in nature work, but the City of Miami. Now, what we are talking about here, folks... Commissioner Plummer said he wants to know who is BAME, as an example. Well, BAME is an organization headed by Reverend Dr. John White, at Greater Bethel Church that has been about the business of trying to build homes. Now, let me tell you why that's important. Because, in the State of Florida, the homeownership rate is about 58 percent. In Dade County it's about 48 percent. In the area where BAME is proposing to build 30 measly... 45 measly homes, the homeownership rate is 05 percent. Can you believe that? In Miami, we have an entire census tract that has a homeownership rate against the national average of 45, 50 percent. Mr. Manager, what is the correct statistical number of the City homeownership rates? Is Erdall or somebody from Community Development here that can get these numbers right, or Mr. Castaneda? Because, I just think what we are looking at here... We want to look at BAME. Five percent homeownership rate in Overtown, 05 percent, J.L. Commissioner Plummer: Eh, Art. Vice Chairman Teele: The homeownership rate in Coconut Grove, I'll be willing to bet you, it's 80 percent. I mean, and I don't think it's fair... Eh, where is he? What's the State of... Excuse me, Mr. Mayor, may I inquire to get the record straight as to what the homeownership rates are, so we know what we are talking about when we start talking about this CD (Community Development) program? Mayor Carollo: If we could, I would prefer that you would go through the Manager, and let the Manager give us the information? Commissioner Plummer: And, if I could just address? I was not questioning where the housing was being built, as much as I was for the organizations that were not familiar to me who I did not know, that I was wanting the feeling of comfort, that the companies who were proposed could do the job of which they were being funded for. Reverend John White, if that's the name that would have appeared there, I would have been very familiar with it, because I know him very well. The organization, BAME, I didn't. Vice Chairman Teele: Well, I just think, you know one of the reasons we have district representation, is that so you don't have... so that none of us have to know the whole City. But, 35 March 19, 1998 some of us need to be responsible for some areas. And, let me tell you, J.L., this Commission has paid lip service. I have come down here as a County Commissioner about three times to talk about what goes on, and doesn't go on in Overtown. So, it's particularly sensitive when you look at a community, that there is nobody in this audience can say, they live in a community that have been deprived and that it's statistically is as stressed as Overtown. When you have got unemployment at 40 percent, you know, against the state unemployment of six percent, against... I mean of five percent against Dade County employment of six to seven percent, and you have got census tracts, unemployment, you are asking for racial strife, you are asking for civil strife. And, to talk about cannibalizing the program is something that we need to clarify. Mr. Manager, do you...? Is the homeownership rate of Overtown about five percent? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: I am told by the CRA (Community Redevelopment Agency) member that it's less than five percent, sir. Vice Chairman Teele: And, what is the Citywide homeownership rate? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: The figures he gave me are 36 percent for the City as a whole. Vice Chairman Teele: I said 40 percent. What is the state or the national? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: The County is 58 percent, and the national is 67 percent, according to what he gave me. Vice Chairman Teele: Sixty-seven percent national, fifty-eight percent state... Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Dade. Dade County. Vice Chairman Teele: Dade... City of Miami, 37. Overtown, the area in question, 05 percent. And, all that I am saying to you, is this, Mr. Manager. I don't blame you for what you are asking for, I mean, I think it's a fair request, other than the fact that it's probably illegal in the way that you framed it, because the CD (Community Development) funding must be to supplement government, and I want the record preserved as to what this is all about. Because, I can tell you right now, if this Commission begins to cannibalize the CDBG (Community Development Block Grant) program to fund the City of Miami, I will join those decedents in the lawsuit against the City of Miami. I am saying it on the record, I am not going to go behind anybody's back and say this. This would be the height of irresponsibility. When you have got this type of disparity documented all over this City, if you ask what the Little Haiti homeownership rates are, you know are going to see another drastic number, and somewhere along the line this Commission must take the courage to pass a budget that is a strong budget, one that the Manager can go up with and stick out his chest and defend. One that the Oversight Board will accept, and what we have now, is we have ourselves now, like a bunch of buzzards gathering around the only carcass that's left, and getting ready to try to pick over it. And, I am going to tell you, Mr. Mayor, I am not going to participate in it. I am not going to consider it, if that's the direction we are going in, count me out. I think we need to move ahead and approve this budget today, otherwise it's going to be fair game for us as we refuse to take any other decision, but a decision based upon trying to pick over the CD (Community Development) budget and see how we can balance the budget. The problem that we have, Mr. Mayor, and you may not agree, you may agree. But the problem we have, is we don't have enough money, and it's no different from anybody's household. You go home with anybody and there is not enough money, there is going to be tension in the family. And, the problem is, you don't a good relationship when you don't have enough money. We don't have enough money. And, so now we are saying protect the food; protect the medicine; protect the elderly; protect the old people; protect the young people. Teele is saying help the people who have a sewing program, that we looked at, we held hearings on that. The program is not cost effective, but the program provides jobs. It is not cost effective, 36 March 19, 1998 but it has positive results. And, what we are looking at now is going in six different directions because we don't have money. And, I would only use this as an opportunity, Mr. Mayor. You're just getting here, you know, welcome, but I got to tell you, if you don't come up with the Manager, with some revenue enhancements, you know, this thing is going to deteriorate. And, it's not only going to deteriorate here on the dais, it's going to deteriorate throughout this City because we don't have enough money, and people are not going to stand by and I as a Commissioner will not... I, as a Commissioner, will not defend a Commission that cannibalizes from the poor. Mayor Carollo: Are you done, Commissioner? Before, I let Commissioner Gort have the floor, you know, I am sorry I am being so extra quiet today, but under the laws that I have to abide by and that's one thing thank God that we are, our City, State, a nation of laws. I have to follow this procedure where I can only speak unless I give the gavel to the Vice -Chair or until we make some changes in an ordinance that we have. But, I heard my colleague and friend, Commissioner Teele. I understand a lot of what he is saying, but the one thing that I want him to realize, that I want all my colleagues here to realize, and the public to realize that I knew perfectly well that I was coming back to a situation that was not going to be easy to straighten out, again. I knew perfectly well that the stories that were being told in some parts of Miami that we were a rich City, that we didn't have any deficit, that we had one hundred and seventy million dollars ($170,000,000). That our taxes were going to be lowered 18 percent. That the minute that a trip would be taken to New York that our bond rating would go up by double, triple A. And, by the way it went from the positive that we left it to negative, right before the trip. That the Oversight Board was going to be sent out, instead we got another board, one man board, a judicial judge to get involved in overseeing some of our affairs here. I knew that that was not reality and I also understand the pressures that were being applied to colleagues up here that I consider that my colleagues are brave. I don't consider the decisions that were made currently. I have to say and I tried to say this to the Oversight Board yesterday in my most polite way that I could, that at the end of the day, this Commission voted for the last revision based upon what they were told that could be done, and I am sure if reality would have really have been set in that maybe it would have been different. It's not going to be an easy road down ahead and what Commissioner Teele has said about there is not enough money is true. However, there are many ways that we could bring additional funds, unfortunately, some of those ways that we could bring them in and I am talking about recurring revenue now might, might be too late to do in this fiscal year because we sat back and didn't do anything since November. It's not going to be easy. There are going to have to be some very tough decisions to be made, but I have confidence in this Commission that it would do the right thing. I will sit down with the Manager and suggest certain areas to him that we will bring to this Commission soon, that will point to some other areas that we could bring some recurring revenue in sizable amounts besides that three that he mentioned. I think possibly one could be accomplished in this fiscal year. Some others will not until the next fiscal year, but there are also some other smaller areas that we could bring in half a million dollars ($500,000) from or a little more that would be recurring revenue. But, I will need the support of each and every member of this Commission in order to bring that. I cannot do it alone. So, having said that, I will take the gavel back from the senior member of the Commission and give the floor to my colleague and friend, Commissioner Gort. Commissioner Gort: I have got several questions. One, my understanding, and correct me if I am wrong. And, I agree with Commissioner Teele. The City of Miami gave social service away, I think it was 20 years ago, or something like that. But, my understanding, and then correct me if I am wrong, that this is CDBG (Community Development Block Grant) funding, the federal grants that supposed to be applied to certain, specific uses. Mr. Cerdan: Yes. Ms. Warren: Yes. 37 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Gort: My understanding is, public servers and social programs are to fund social programs. Ms. Warren: Correct. Commissioner Gort: My understanding, and then correct me if I am wrong. These social programs you are talking about, you are talking about sick, food and shelter. Mr. Maxwell: No. Commissioner Gort: And, for shelter we have got other things. No public... for shelter we got Housing and the other things. Ms. Warren: I think... Commissioner Gort: My understanding also is, whatever money we put in here is... most of it is matching funds which a lot of times you can apply in multiple of three or four. So, if we are talking about two or three million dollars ($3,000,000) that we put in social service and some of these agencies have been very successful and they can bring three or four times the amount of money is put in there. Ms. Warren: Two separate issues. The answer to your question directly is, yes. I think the general concept of social services under CDBG (Community Development Block Grant) is one that has to be services provided in a CDBG target community only. Commissioner Gort: Correct. Right. Ms. Warren: And, social services, I guess in the way the City may be looking at it, does include programs that are operated in the Parks Department for communities in a CDBG target area, Economic Development, it could include issues such as Code Enforcement in the CDBG target areas. So, there is a lot of give and take here. So, it's not an absolute as long as, you know, again, it's a broad definition of what social service means... Commissioner Gort: No, I understand, but... Ms. Warren: ... but, specifically in that community. Commissioner Gort: But at the same time, I agree. I don't like to see my budget, our General Fund budget balanced with this... Ms. Warren: I... Commissioner Gort: ... because this will not be reoccurring revenues. These are revenues that CDBG's. Next year they might say five or ten million less so... But I want to make sure that we understand the process because as I understood when I came here four years ago, that's the way it was explained to me. So I want to make sure we understand that process. At the same time, I would like to, because my understanding is, we receive revenues according to target areas and to the need of each of the specific target areas. My understanding is, we receive funding according to a percentage applied to each of these target areas. Ms. Warren: This is correct. Commissioner Gort: I have been told in the past that the distribution of this funding. I am beign very fair. I would like to find out if... I would like to get information from you all... 38 March 19, 1998 Ms. Warren: Uh-huh. Commissioner Gort: ... according the percentage that we have here... Ms. Warren: Uh-huh. Commissioner Gort: ... what has been the deviation between what's requested and what's being applied for each community. Ms. Warren: OK. Commissioner Gort: Because at the same time is that what I have stated before, Commissioner Teele, and I agree with you there is neighborhoods that might be receiving fundings and those fundings might not be applied correctly by the neighborhood that's receiving them. So, I would like to get that information as part of it to, and... Ms. Warren: I would like to provide you that information. But, again, I guess the question I would have, sir, is will we look at all of the CDBG programs, not only CDBG, but HOME 108. All of the programs that are administered through our department and then do a geographical... Commissioner Gort: Well, I would like to see it separate, each in their own category. Mayor Carollo: OK. If, I... Ms. Warren: Correct, OK. I can do that. Commissioner Gort: And, how that funding is being used. Because we can set up priorities here, and my understanding is that millions of dollars has been spent here in rentals. Instead of rentals, maybe it should have been used in homeownership. Ms. Warren: Correct. Commissioner Gort: And, this is some of the things that I would like to change. Thank you. Ms. Warren: We could do that analysis. Mayor Carollo: If I could just ask the members of the Commission that if a majority is ready to proceed and vote upon this today. That if you could acknowledge it, if not, let's save some time and say so. Commissioner Regalado: I have got a question. Mr. Mayor, to the Manager. Can we vote right now on the social services funding, because what I think that we should not do, and I agree with Commissioner Teele that... and I am happy to hear the Mayor say that we have other alternatives, and I agree that we need to proceed. What we cannot do and not should do is to leave a lot of people hanging thinking that they are not going to be funded, and waiting and telling the parents that there might be problems or the elderly that they going to have problems to give them their meals or activities. I think that if there is a way that we can decide on the social services program which is the majority of the people that are here right now. And it of course, is the most pressing issue, I would rather Mr. Mayor and Manager both, and I would hope that the members of the Commission... If we can do that, for the social services, we will go ahead and vote today, on the social services program. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Mr. Mayor, may I address that? 39 March 19, 1998 Mayor Carollo: Absolutely. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: I think it's important that my comments not be misunderstood. Mayor Carollo: Uh-huh. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: What we would like is an opportunity to determine what activities that are CDBG eligible activities that the City is now funding can be revisited. Commissioner Regalado: Oh, I understand that. I understood that. If I may? But, what we have before on the social programs just the social program pages is something that if we were going to change, I am sure that it will be changed for the better of those programs, not... Because you know, if we take two thousand from Centro Mater or from Southwest Social Services or from whatever. We are causing a major crisis in that program because of the domino effect and because of the need. I, you know, I have here a waiting list, a waiting list of people who wants to go into one of these activities, and to eat, and it's very sad. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Commissioner... If the Commission's will is to fund today or to agree today to fund some or all of the two million three hundred and forty-eight thousand two hundred and fifty dollars ($2,348,250) for Public Services and Social Programs, that could be done. Commissioner Regalado: Well, I hope that we can do that. I really hope that we can do that and get it over with, because you know we should not have people hoping and praying and... Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: To do that today, what you have to decide on the onset is, you had approved staff recommendations and... Commissioner Regalado: And a set -aside fund. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: And, right. And now they have been... You have the opportunity if you wish to do so, to create that fund for new programs of one hundred and twenty-six thousand dollars ($126,000). Those are the issues you would have to resolve. Commissioner Plummer: Excuse me. Mayor Carollo: Go ahead. Commissioner Plummer: That is not to create new programs. It's money available to the Commission... Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Funds. Commissioner Plummer: ...to redistribute. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Correct. Commissioner Plummer: To either new programs or programs or programs... Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Or existing programs. Commissioner Plummer: Programs, yeah. Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: Absolutely. You said it correctly, and I didn't. 40 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Plummer: Can I ask a question of my colleague? Mayor Carollo: Absolutely. Commissioner Plummer: It would seem logical to me that the Manager has made his plea to this Commission. These monies are not payable until the earliest of June the 1st. If we are faced with an alternative of the Governor walking in the door, I think most everybody would say, don't let it happen. I would think that we should wait on any of these programs until the Manager has made his determination because we might be walking around with our hands out looking for a handout. And, I am just saying to you, I can remember in the days on June the 1st where we allocated one -twelfth of funding to carry people over, but we have the time. Until June the 1st... What have we got, 30 days now until we make...? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: We have asked for an extension from April 15th to May 15th. Commissioner Plummer: OK, so you have got more than 30 days. Ms. Linda Kearson (Asst. City Attorney): Well, keep in mind, Commissioner that you have to have a 30 day review period. So, you would have to, at the very latest, approve the plan by April 14th to allow for the 30 day review period to get the plan in by May 15th. Commissioner Plummer: OK, hey, all I am saying... I appreciate that, thank you. All I am saying is, is to give the Manager the flexibility of coming back to this Commission and saying, hey guys, I have found other ways, go ahead and do what you wanted to do, and what you found and I don't need any of that money that, you know, everybody wants to die and go to heaven. But, I don't want to rush into something, give false hope to people and then have to come back and retract when I think we have the amount of time that we need to give the Manager that amount of flexibility. We have a meeting Tuesday, the Presiding Officer, Mayor or whoever he may be has the right to call a special meeting if it's prior to the April the 14th. I don't think there is any rush. And, I understand what you are saying about giving people, you know, the idea. But, I... My motion today, if I am to make a motion, would be to defer until the meeting of the 14th of April to make a final decision. That would be my motion. Mayor Carollo: Is that a motion that you are making, Commissioner? Commissioner Plummer: Well, I don't want to make a motion until everybody... Mayor Carollo: OK. Commissioner Plummer: ... Mr. Mayor, has had their opportunity to speak as I was just allowed to do. Mayor Carollo: Very good. Commissioner Hernandez. Chairman Hernandez: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Manager, just to write these figures down. How much monies are available to redistribute for those agencies that are new applicants or new programs, right now? Commissioner Plummer: One twenty-six o two seven (126,027). Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: If you accept the methodology that we use that creates a fund of one hundred twenty-six thousand twenty-seven dollars ($126,027). And, that's on page two of my memorandum of March 17th to the Mayor. 41 March 19, 1998 Mayor Carollo: OK. Any...? Chairman Hernandez: Right. OK, what...? I have a question on page... on housing projects, page nine of fifteen. Priority that was set by this Commission and by the Community Development was that we were going to look at those programs which increased either the tax base and or reduced the operating expenses of this City. On projects 54, 55, 56 and 57. Vice Chairman Teele: What page are you on? Chairman Hernandez: Nine of fifteen. What? Were these programs, these projects considered? Can you explain to me what you meant by under City staff and the Economic Development Committee, and the City Commission put, HOME Program. What is that about? Mr. Jeffrey B. Hepburn (Asst. Director/Housing Conservation Development Division): Commissioner, what we are saying is, not to fund these projects from the CDBG allocation, but to look at the HOME allocation which four point five million dollars ($4,500,000) is going to be available starting June 1st. Chairman Hernandez: Starting June the 1st. Mr. Hepburn: I am saying the HOME program, this... Chairman Hernandez: Right. Mr. Hepburn: ... allocation of four point five is available, also June 1st, just like CDBG. Commissioner Plummer: For what? Mr. Hepburn: And, what we are saying is, allow us to go through and RFP (Request for Proposal) process... Commissioner Plummer: Well, they... He's talking about page nine... Mr. Hepburn: Go through an RFP process to make the awards and come back to the Commission for approval. Commissioner Plummer: Items 54 through 57. Chairman Hernandez: I just want to put on the record, and I want to continue Commissioner Teele's argument of, the more and more I have looked at these numbers, the more disparity there is. The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer. I am looking at a table that I have been working on since last week since we looked at it, and it is amazing how we continue, and this is the second year I go through this. It's just, a lot of people around here are not getting their fair share. And, I would like, if we are going to defer, and I would like to vote on this today. I am sorry, I don't agree with you, Commissioner Plummer. Commissioner Plummer: That's your privilege. Chairman Hernandez: I think it's time to move on and vote for the entire package. But, if you would like to give the Manager another shot changing these numbers around or see what alternative we have, whatever the will of the Commission is. I am ready to move this on. And, again, the disparity is very... It's shocking to me. 42 March 19, 1998 Mayor Carollo: Yeah. Commissioner Regalado: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner, go ahead. Commissioner Regalado: I would also hope, Commissioner Plummer and my colleagues. I think it's important that we don't send a mixed message to the poorest of the poor. And, I would just hope that we can... The Manager said that we have two million for the social programs more or less, and I just would hope to go ahead and decide on the social programs, which are the most pressing one and... But if the will of the Commission is to go ahead and do the whole thing, I would really hope that we can decide on the social area of this issue today. That's... Vice Chairman Teele: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: Commissioner Teele. Vice Chairman Teele: Mr. Mayor, as I have said before. The staff, the Manager was given an opportunity... In December, we went out in January, readvertised this entire process and asked specifically that the City Departments look at their best numbers and their best situations and to make their case. And, I hope that, Mister... The current Manager is really briefed on that. And, the fact that that gave a lot of people, that gave the Community Development Committee, the Advisory Committee a heart, a lot of heart burn. But, I felt it was an important... That the City of Miami Manager and the staff, really have an opportunity to look at how we can blend some of these funding opportunities. I will never be against, ever be against the professional staff having an opportunity to have the full wiggle room and while I think you have had ample opportunity, the Manager has had ample opportunity, I realize the amount of turnover and, and the difficulties that the current City Manager is having, just trying to understand what's on first, who's on first sort of thing. So, it's in that spirit that I am willing to defer. I also think not to defer sends another message, and that is, this City has a financial problem. It really does. And, the more we say that, and the more we get the community based organizations to understand that, the more political resolve we can build to help us solve the City's problems. We need the support of every one of these community based organizations. We need the support of all these community service organizations. We need for them to understand that this is not talk. And see, the problem is, is that we say a lot of different things. I mean, when we got up and finished with the fire fee we all said, oh, we don't have a problem, everything is fine. Everything is honky-dory.. And, you know, we have gone out and talked about the amount of money we have in the bank. Two hundred million, one hundred and fifty million. All these kinds of numbers. And, we are sending mixed signals, that's the problem, Tomas. The problem is, we are sending mixed signals, and until we realize that the Fire Department did not single out Hadley Park Fire Station because the trucks weren't running. The trucks ain't running all over this City. And, the problem is, is that we have... We are beginning to see the very early stages of what happens when you don't have enough money for a municipality. And, I believe, it's up to us, the five Commissioners first, to recognize that we have a financial problem. I think, giving the Manager the opportunity, Mr. Manager, and I am supporting you with the caveat that this is not about cannibalizing, this is not about reworking. This is not about what you said. And, I know somebody has obviously passed you a note or something, because I take note of the fact that your statement is substantially different from the previous statement which was clearly a statement that would draw a raised eyebrow all over Washington, D.C., and it is in my hope that you will not try to use the CDBG (Community Development Block Grant) Program to carry out essential governmental functions. If you get three votes to support you, and I am going to be one of those to support you, again, for this... for this purpose of coming back. But, this is not about how do we, you know, eat the babies now. This is about how do we, you know, maybe make 43 March 19, 1998 some other applications, and maybe stretch out programs, spread out some programs. Maybe cut something here so we can add something over there. I am the one person on this Commission that has said from the very beginning that we need to use the CD program to support the overall activities in the Community Development target areas. But, let me tell you something, Mr. Manager. I didn't query you on this, because this was sidebar conversation apparently that you and Commissioner Plummer have had. If you think that you are going to fund the Fire Department to the tune of two million dollars ($2,000,000) as these numbers were going back out of Community Development because this Commission doesn't have the courage and the... Let me put it this way. Because, this Commission did not deal with, an appropriate way to deal with the Fire Department, we will have a long, hot summer on this Commission, because I for one, am not going to let this Commission use the Community Development Program in an illegal manner. And, it in my judgment will be grossly, and patently, and patently and clearly illegal to try to fund the Fire Department capital needs which is a Citywide function out of a Community Development program which is targeted for the target areas. Those two things just don't work. And, you cannot, you know there is old saying about "everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Well, you know, I am poking fun of nobody in that business, but I am going to tell you this, this ain't the way to fund the Fire Department. It's not going to be out of the Community Development... Community Development Block Grant Program. And, that's the conversation that's on the conversation that's on the record, Mr. Manager, that you and Commissioner Plummer had sidebar. And, you know the two hundred thousand going from two fifty to five hundred to two million dollars ($2,000,000), that doesn't work like that. Because, the Community Development Program must be here to address disparity. And, that there is no justification, Commissioner Plummer, no justification for trying to fund the Fire Department's shortfalls which is an essential municipal function. I am saying it on the record, because you will read it again, in a lawsuit, if you all believe that you are going to turn around here now, and have a sidebar discussion and fund the Fire Department or the Police Department... Commissioner Plummer: Where was our sidebar? Vice Chairman Teele: ... which is an essential municipal Citywide function out of the Community Development. I have supported using Community Development funds for Fire, Fire Rescue in Community Development areas where those stations are in the Community Development area where you have roofs and those kind of things that are wrong. But, it is wrong, Mr. Mayor. It is wrong, Mr. Manager. It is wrong my colleagues to even think like that. As the kids say, "Don't even think about it, Mr. Manager." Mayor Carollo: Do I take that to be a second... Commissioner Gort: Are you making a motion? Mayor Carollo: ... that you will make to the motion? Commissioner Plummer: I... Vice Chairman Teele: I second Commissioner Plummer's motion to give the Manager more time. Mayor Carollo: OK... Commissioner Plummer: I am concerned about the sidebar that you and I had. Is that a salad bar or is that a...? Vice Chairman Teele: No, no. 44 March 19, 1998 Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: I think he was referring to the question you asked. I answered on the... in the mike, I mean, as to the two million four hundred thousand dollars ($2,400,000) for this year and the million five for next year to fund Fire Department equipment. Vice Chairman Teele: From Community Development. Commissioner Plummer: OK. I just think... Commissioner Gort: Make the motion and second it. Commissioner Plummer: My motion is very simply to defer this item until the 14th of April, giving the Manager... I am sorry? Ms. Kearson: You are going to continue this item until the 14th. Commissioner Plummer: I want to continue this item until April the 14th, to give the Manager the flexibility that he feels that we need. Now, in saying that, I would like to also invite my colleagues to give to the Manager, or Community Development through the Manager, the areas in social services in particular that you feel should be either increased, decreased so hopefully a consensus opinion can come back on the 14th and we can address the social services programs. I don't think it's out of order to ask. So, I make that motion that we continue until, April the 14th. Ms. Kearson: And, we need to... We need to have a time certain, sir. We are to adjourn this until April 14th, a time certain. Commissioner Plummer: If you can get this damn Commission to agree on time about a time about anything... Commissioner Gort: Six o'clock. Commissioner Plummer: Six o'clock is fine with me. That means "mas o meaos" seven, seven thirty, eight o'clock, you know. Vice Chairman Teele: What's the motion, Mr. Mayor? Commissioner Plummer: Six o'clock. Mayor Carollo: The motion on the record is as Commissioner Plummer explained it, to continue this... Ms. Kearson: Right. Mayor Carollo: ... to a later date. Vice Chairman Teele: I would second the motion with the understanding that any recommendation will be within the full spirit of the Community Development federal guidelines, and specifically, that the Manager will not come back with recommendations essentially to provide munici... basic municipal functions to be funded out of the Community Development Program, but to subsidize or to provide enhancements of basic functions in the Community Development areas. I second the motion. Commissioner Regalado: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Carollo: There is a second to the motion. 45 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Regalado: Before, before we vote. What are we....? Why are we waiting until the 14th if...? You have to come up with a new budget in 20 days, right? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: We have to come up with, I am told millions of dollars in new revenues in 20 days. Commissioner Regalado: All right. Commissioner Plummer: We don't need the money. We just got to have a plan that shows... Commissioner Regalado: I understand what you are saying, but... Commissioner Plummer: Then, why are asking the question. Commissioner Regalado: I would think that if we are going to do some changes that the public has the right to come and speak and, after the fact, if we were to use some of the money, L. it would be very difficult, I mean, what's the use, you know? But, and... And, the other area that I was concerned -- I am sorry. -- is that again, you know, I think it's important that the administration goes on the record in terms of the social programs that you would tell us if... I know it's very difficult for you right now, but I would just hope that you would tell us that when you come back, whenever you come back, social programs will not be affected by these plans or ideas that you have. And, the reason that I am saying that, Mr. Manager, is because, yes, it's important that we set some guidance here, but... Commissioner Plummer: Can I give you a little comfort? Commissioner Regalado: Sure. Commissioner Plummer: You are only talking about if you were to fund all of the social program of two point two? Two point three. Commissioner Regalado: That's what I am saying that... Commissioner Plummer: I will give you my vote right now that no less than the two point three will be spent in social services. Commissioner Regalado: OK, all right. Commissioner Plummer: OK? Commissioner Regalado: L. That's the assurance that I... Mayor Carollo: Well... Commissioner Regalado: ... think that we all need, that we are going to have... Commissioner Plummer: We can argue about who gets it, but... Commissioner Regalado: ... the money to fund the social programs. Mayor Carollo: Believe me, Commissioner, we are going to need a lot more assurance than that. But, if everyone is done... 46 March 19, 1998 Commissioner Regalado: Would you modify your motion, J.L.? Commissioner Plummer: OK. My motion will say that we are deferring until April the 14th and with the explicit instructions to the City Manager that he is not to in any way interfere with the two point three million in social service programs, if that's agreeable to the seconder. Commissioner Regalado: Yes. Commissioner Gort: To continue. Commissioner Plummer: To continue. I am sorry. Commissioner Regalado: Yeah, I mean, I didn't second it. It's Commissioner... Commissioner Gort: Yeah, it's agreeable. Yes. Mayor Carollo: I call the question. Commissioner Plummer: Hurry up. Mayor Carollo: Mr. Clerk, can you call the roll on this one? Mr. Walter J. Foeman (City Clerk): Roll call. Commissioner Plummer: Yes. Commissioner Gort: Yes. Chairman Hernandez: Yes. Vice Chairman Teele: Yes, sir. Commissioner Regalado: Yes. The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Plummer, who moved its adoption: MOTION NO. 98-281 A MOTION TO AGAIN CONTINUE THE MEETING OF MARCH 19, 1998 TO TUESDAY, APRIL 14, 1998, BEGINNING 6:00 P.M.; FURTHER PROVIDING THE CITY MANAGER THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVISIT THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) PROPOSALS FOR THE 24TH YEAR, TO DETERMINE FROM AMONG THOSE ACTIVITIES THAT THE CITY IS CURRENTLY FUNDING WHAT AGENCIES ARE ELIGIBLE FOR CDBG FUNDING, IN ORDER THAT THE MANAGER MAY RECOMMEND TO THE COMMISSION WHAT PROPOSALS SHOULD BE EITHER INCREASED OR DECREASES, FURTHER STIPULATING THAT ANY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE PROFFERED BY THE ADMINISTRATION, SHOULD BE MADE WITHIN THE FULL SPIRIT OF THE CDBG GUIDELINES, VOID OF ANY ATTEMPT TO SUBSIDIZE ANY ESSENTIAL GOVERNMENTAL SERVICES, BUT ONLY TO ENHANCE SAME. 47 March 19, 1998 Upon being seconded by Commissioner Teele, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Commissioner Wifredo Gort Commissioner J.L. Plummer, Jr. Commissioner Humberto Hernandez Commissioner Tomas Regalado Commissioner Arthur E. Teele, Jr. NAYS: None. ABSENT: None. Mayor Carollo: Mr. Manager, do you have any further business to present to this body? Mr. Garcia -Pedrosa: No, sir. Mayor Carollo: OK. Commissioner Plummer: See you on Tuesday. Mayor Carollo: This meeting is then adjourned. Thank you. Vice Chairman Teele: Excuse me, the meeting stands... This meeting stands not adjourned but... Chairman Hernandez: Continued. Vice Chairman Teele: ... continued. Mayor Carollo: Continued. Commissioner Gort: To continue. Ms. Kearson: To be continued. THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION, THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 2:56 P.M. ATTEST: Walter Foeman CITY CLERK Maria J. Argudin ASSISTANT CITY CLERK COMMISSIONER PRESIDING OFFICER/CHAIRMAN 48 March 19, 1998