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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCC 2002-06-24 MinutesMINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF MIAMI, FLORIDA On the 24th day of June, 2002, the City Commission of Miami, Florida, met at its regular meeting place in the City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami, Florida in special session. The meeting was called to order at 6:03 p.m. by Chairman Thomas Regalado with the following members of the Commission found to be present: Commissioner Joe Sanchez (District 3) Chairman Tomas Regalado (District 4) Commissioner Arthur E. Teele, Jr. (District 5) ABSENT: Commissioner Angel Gonzalez (District 1) Vice Chairman Johnny L. Winton (District 2) ALSO PRESENT: Carlos A. Gimenez, City Manager Alejandro Vilarello, City Attorney Priscilla A. Thompson, City Clerk Sylvia Scheider, Assistant City Clerk 3. DELETE AREAS MARKED AS "A-3 AND A-4" FROM MAP IDENTIFYING PROPOSED EXTENSION OF BOUNDARIES OF COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREA. DEFER CONSIDERATION OF PROPOSED ORDINANCE TO EXTEND BOUNDARIES OF COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREA TO COMMISSION MEETING OF JUNE 27, 2002. DEFER CONSIDERATION OF COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY (CRA) MEETING PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED FOR JUNE 24, 2002 TO JUNE 27, 2002. Chairman Regalado: Now, we begin the second special City Commission meeting. Commissioner Teele: Mr. Chairman. Chairman Regalado: Yes, sir. Commissioner Teele: I'd like to note, please, for the record -- Where's Mr. Marco? I'd like to note for the record that the City of Miami has received by hand on today's date a letter addressed to the Mayor regarding the item and, further, I'd like to note the presence of Mr. Tom Marco and others, I think, with the County, and to be certain that the record reflects that Tom is here and you've got a good seat, ample support, and if, at any point, you'd like to recognized, Tom, I would appreciate if you would let me know so, at least, I can sponsor any request you'd like to make. Guillermo Olmedillo: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Guillermo Olmedillo, 6840 Southwest 130th Terrace in Miami, Florida. What I added to the record is a slum and blight conditions report, which describes generally and describes specifically a number of properties that are located within the different areas, different options that the CRA (Community Redevelopment Agency), as a board, has to choose to expand the boundaries to. Generally -- is this on? Chairman Regalado: Guillermo, why don't you use the portable mike, and then, that way -- she's going to give it -- much easier. It's not on. Now. Mr. Olmedillo: I got it. Generally, what you have is areas -- and this is mapped to -- just to the map that was published in the paper, and what you have is area 1 is generally underneath the right-of-ways of I-395 and I-95. Then you have two groups of properties, one which is located just north of I-395, up to 14th Street. Then you have -- to the west of I-95, you have the police station and Jefferson Reeves Health Center, which is primarily publicly owned land or property. Then you have area "B," which is north of 5th Street, between I-95 and 5th Avenue, and then between 5th Avenues and 7th Avenue, north of 6th Street to north of 11th Street -- to properties north of 11th Street. Then you have areas A-3 and 4 being Bicentennial Park and Watson Island. What the report states to you is that these are options that you can take, and you can look at these according to Chapter 163 and meet the definition of slum and blight either by vacancy rate, by deterioration rate, or by dilapidation of the existing property, and that is what I am reporting to you, and like I said, what I added to the record is a list of the properties, specific properties and the general boundaries of each area that I described to you. You have any questions, comments? Chairman Regalado: This is a public hearing, so anybody from the public who wishes to make a comment on these boundaries? I just got a question, Guillermo -- Mr. Olmedillo: Yes, sir. Chairman Regalado: -- for the purpose of probably people watching and the people here. Those letters A-1, A-2, A-3 -- Mr. Olmedillo: A-4. Chairman Regalado: -- A-4 -- Mr. Olmedillo: B, B-1 and C. Chairman Regalado: -- B, B-1, these are the proposed plans to expand. Mr. Olmedillo: These are areas that are eligible -- Chairman Regalado: To expand. Mr. Olmedillo: -- because of their condition of slum and blight. Chairman Regalado: And your offer -- you're offering that to the Commission to determine which areas will -- could CRA expand. Is that -- Mr. Olmedillo: Correct. That is correct. Chairman Regalado: OK. Go ahead, sir. Brett Bibeau: Brett Bibeau, Assistant Director of the Miami River Commission, with offices located at 4600 Rickenbacker Causeway in Miami, Florida 33149. Mr. Olmedillo stated that these were the options as put forth in The Herald. Unfortunately, that is incorrect. Option "C," the boundary published in The Herald in the boundary of the March 25th CRA, the southern boundary of option "C," is Northwest 7th Street and that's gone south since it was published in The Herald, so I'd just like to -- Mr. Olmedillo: I stand corrected. Mr. Bibeau: So, are the options being presented those as noticed in The Herald, or the ones as on the exhibit, is the question that I'm putting forward. Alejandro Vilarello (City Attorney): Mr. Chairman. Chairman Regalado: OK. Mr. Olmedillo, he's asking whether -- which ones are the one correct; the one that you're showing here or the one published in The Herald? Mr. Olmedillo: The one that is being shown here will be -- Chairman Regalado: OK. That's your answer. Mr. Olmedillo: -- the correct -- the correct boundaries. Commissioner Teele: But wasn't there a consensus that we had agreed to de -map a portion of the southern boundary option? Mr. Olmedillo: That was achieved by map 3. Mr. Vilarello: And, Mr. Chairman, that was what was advertised in The Herald. The -- well, the second exhibit that was shown here today, not the first, but the second exhibit that was shown, and that was what was advertised in The Herald that was note -- the taxing authorities were notified to that extent, so, certainly, you need to be governed by this second exhibit, which has a smaller area, which you've identified as option "C." Commissioner Teele: Does that meet your concern? Mr. Bibeau: Yes, sir. Commissioner Teele: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bibeau: Thank you, sir. Chairman Regalado: Yes, sir. Go ahead, ma'am. Dorothy Jenkins -Fields: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the CRA Board. I'm Dorothy Jenkins -Fields. The Overtown Revitalization Partnership, composed of BAM, Black Archives, LISC (Local Initiative Support Corporation), St. John CDC (Community Development Corporation), and the Trust for Public Land, and the Collin Center, looks forward to continuing to work with the CRA to make Overtown the vibrant neighborhood of mixed income, mixed-use facilities that we know it can be. Our group wants to understand the goals and objectives and historic accomplishments of the CRA before the boundaries are changed. Our group has general and very specific goals and objectives that we have spelled out in a letter that was delivered to your office, to each of you, last Friday, and some of you got it today, and we have copies for you in case you didn't get one. Mr. Teele is shaking his head. Would you give him mine, please? We hope that a community discussion -- that's why we're here today. To ask for a community discussion of CRA's goals and objectives are needed so that a healthy community can be developed. We want you to help us to see clearly whether our goals for a mixed -income, mixed-use neighborhood are consistent with yours. Thank you for your cooperation. Chairman Regalado: Thank you, Dorothy. Mr. Vilarello: Mr. Chairman, just -- Chairman Regalado: Yes, sir. Mr. Vilarello: Can I correct for the record? Option "B" also was -- the area was moved one block north of its original map, so this exhibit is correct, and this exhibit is consistent which what -- with what was advertised in The Miami Herald and the notice provided to the taxing authorities. Ms. Fields: Mr. Chairman, we're really hoping that before the changes are made, that the CRA will, in fact, look at the request that we have made individually and collectively as a partnership, and help facilitate those requests that we already have in, in order to -- before you go further. Commissioner Teele: Mr. Chairman, if I may? Chairman Regalado: Yes, sir. Commissioner Teele: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the discussion today, unfortunately, by the State Statute, is a discussion on boundary. This -- the boundary discussion precludes the discussion of the actual plan, which involves a collaborative process involving the community. Essentially, the law lays out that the first thing you do is -- in this Chapter 163 process -- and Guillermo or Mr. Attorney, correct me, please, if I'm wrong -- is you establish the boundaries of the study, and in the study process, there is numerous consultation regarding the updating of the plan. I would only state for the record that I have been elected a Commissioner that has the Overtown part of this boundary. As you know, unlike what was -- has been presented, the boundary -- the redevelopment authority was the vision of Mr. Ruiz and Mr. -- and a previous Mayor and others that basically was involving the Park West area. I am not privileged to represent Park West, only the -- Commissioner Winton does that, but in the context of District 5 and the district that I represent, I have held a town hall meeting and a transcript of those meetings have been made available in which -- in the last meeting, over 180 people actually came out and voted on everything that's been done, so I want to be very clear and take any exception to the fact that the process, throughout the period that I've been privileged to serve, is not open. Now, obviously, Overtown's been studied and restudied. We are doing a bibliography of some 300 studies right now that have been done and reports, and plans, and all of that. The redevelopment authority is not responsible for the redevelopment of the entire Overtown, as it's been pointed out. One of the things of the boundary -- to the point of the letter -- one of the things of the boundary is to deal primarily, as it relates to Overtown, with the three areas that have been most discussed, and, that is, first, the City has paid out over $2 million, $3 million in awards based upon the fact that promises were not made. One of the promises that the City has made repeatedly -- going all the way back to '82, '83 -- was to deal with what is underneath 395 and 95, and, in fact, that was -- am I correct, Mr. Attorney? I was not here, but I've read and, at least, I've discussed it with the lead attorney, Mr. Mays, that one of the main bases was the slum and blight -- and the blighted conditions underneath 95. It's almost -- I don't mean to say a no-brainer, but it's almost curious that the City, in developing the boundaries, did not deal with what is perhaps the most graphic and the most undisputed aspect of the blight that has affected the community, and that is the area underneath 395, and so, while there are legal opinions that we can do certain things, the boundary areas underneath 395 and 95 are self -explicit. The areas relating to "B," just so that it's clear, is an extension of the 3rd Avenue Corridor. One of the things that we've heard from in every town hall meeting of the people that live north of 14th Street or have businesses north of 14th Street, why does the 3rd Avenue Corridor stop -- go from 8th Street to 14th and why doesn't it go all the way to 20th Street? In recognition of those concerns, et cetera, the proposal is to take the redevelopment straight up 3rd Avenue to the logical ending point, I guess, which is 20 Street, and to the issue of mixed-use, one of the concerns that we have had is that the changing neighborhood between 6th Street or 5th Street and 14th Street, particularly, 6th and 10th Street, don't lend itself to the pure residential component, and the changing neighborhood with the trucks, with 8th Street, with the club districts, with all of the things that are going on. There seems to be a real need for land that can be what I think we would all agree upon is the greatest tragedy of Overtown and that is the lack of homeownership, and so, the areas of "B" and "C" represent areas primarily not for redevelopment in a commercial sense. Indeed, that land is all zoned residential, but it is also consistent with the changes that have been undertaken as it relates to the homeless -- I'm sorry -- as it relates to the homeownership zone to try to provide greater homeownership in the areas of "B" and "C," and so, I just wanted to provide that clarity to the comments that were being made and the letter that is there. The most important issue, however, is that the redevelopment boundaries that are being proposed that relate to Overtown would provide additional housing opportunities for residential homeownership, as well as would complete the commercial corridor along 3rd Avenue to the northernmost point of Overtown, which is widely regarded as 20 Street. Ms. Jenkins -Fields: We appreciate that answer, but I'm still asking the question, Mr. Chairman, will it really benefit the community and -- Commissioner Teele: Well, you know, I think the boundary changes themselves -- in and of themselves, will not benefit the community, but the boundary changes give the community the opportunity -- at least, the areas that are addressed in the boundary change -- it gives the area the opportunity to receive additional dollars, and I think the main thing that needs to be said about Overtown, since that is on the table, that the primary responsibility for Overtown with the CRA and without the CRA is the City of Miami, and the City of Miami, which is a -- this is why this is a City Commission meeting -- is ultimately responsible for many of the conditions that exist. For example, the historic preservation issues, which I've taken the lead on, which I'm very pleased that the majority of the Commission has agreed to name historic advisory committees in their own district, as well, is a City of Miami responsibility, so the CRA operates totally in concert with the City, but the City responsibility is for basically the neighborhood stabilization and neighborhood areas continue as unabated and unobstructed in that manner. Ms. Jenkins -Fields: I would ask how would revenues from Watson Island -- or would revenues from Watson Island benefit Overtown and other areas in this expanded -- the expanded boundaries? Commissioner Teele: Well, I'll be happy -- I mean, Mr. Chairman, to the extent you would like for me to engage in this. I'm very happy to do it. The whole Watson Island issue has been played out in The Herald today in a manner that -- the whole Watson IslandBicentennial Park issue has played out in a manner that I think is extremely unfortunate in the regard -- in this regard. I believe the City has one opportunity to create a great space and destination in downtown Miami. The greatest challenge that this City has is funding. The City budget, structurally, historically has provided less than $5 million annually for capital improvement, which is the problems that you see throughout the areas that we hear about; Little Haiti, Wynwood, Allapattah, in particular, where you don't have sidewalk or road in some of these areas -- paved roads. My view of the Watson Island and the view of the experts has been that if you were to capture some of the dollars that are coming from Watson Island and place them in a redevelopment trust for the benefit of the Bicentennial Park/Watson Island, you stand the substantial likelihood of providing tremendous funding for a capital project that will redefine Miami to the extent that culture has redefined New York, to the extent that what the art museums represent in terms of a magnet for development and redevelopment. Obviously, there will be a tremendous opportunity. I believe that once the funding -- once the funding streams for Watson Island are channeled into the Bicentennial, what will obviously happen will be Bicentennial, along Biscayne Boulevard, will continue to push the developments further west, as was outlined in the original proposal. Succinctly stated, the funding revenue stream from Bicen -- from Watson Island is designed to go into Bicentennial and into Watson Island. Bicentennial is designed to be, at this point, a 400 million -- actually, it's closer to a $500 million project, if you take the two museums -- the art museum and the Museum of Natural Science -- together and their proposals, under Commissioner Winton's leadership, as a $400 million capital project, plus land -- plus site improvements, et cetera. If Watson Island -- if Bicentennial Park is developed as a unique, one -of -a -kind museum facility, then, clearly, the development on the west side of the boulevard will catch on. As for Ray and Herb Bailey and all of the planners who set this whole process up, the whole idea was to take dollars, based upon the redevelopment of Park West, and to channel those dollars into the other redevelop -- portions of the redevelopment area, which is Overtown. Mr. Chairman, and members of the public, I'm very proud to say this. That in -- five years ago, in January, when I took over the CRA, Southeast Overtown/Park West, after some 12 years, the TIF (Tax Increment Fund) was generating a 140 -- $148,000, after 12 years of existence. Today the TIF is generating over a million dollars, and it is projected to generate well over a million and a half dollars in the coming year. This is reoccurring dollars that is available for redevelopment in the areas that are earmarked. If Watson Island's dollars were channeled into Bicentennial Park, there's no doubt in my mind that the Southeast Overtown TIF as a whole, not dollars from Watson Island, but as a whole, would lead the way in the redevelopment of this entire city across Biscayne Boulevard, and across, finally, the railroad track that has been the real block, whether physical, psychological, or otherwise. The real block to development has been to get the development to move west of the railroad track. One of the clear areas that is going to be needed most of all if the Watson Island project were to - - if the Bicentennial project were to go, would be the need for well over 7,000 additional parking spaces alone, unless Commissioner Winton and others are allowed to turn -- let Bicentennial Park be turned into a giant parking lot, and I know that's not the case. All of that parking is going to have to built, I would say, as far west as Northwest 1st Avenue. It's inevitable. It's inevitable. On the other side of the railroad track, and so, the answer directly is none of the direct dollars from Watson Island would go into Overtown under the proposal, but the economic impact of having a half a million -- billion dollar museum facility, unlike any in the South, will have such a positive impact, and I should say the museum -- with the unique association with the Smithsonian -- it's not a museum of Miami. It's a museum of this hemisphere. There will not be a child that graduates from high school from Buenos Aires to Managua to Nassau that doesn't want to come to Miami as a part of their senior trip, just like children all over this country today want to go to Washington, DC, because all of the important pre -Colombian -- all of the important artifacts of this hemisphere have the potential of being deposited and being on display at the Bicentennial Park museum facility, and, again, this is not my district; Watson Island, Bicentennial. Frankly, you know, my dear, I shouldn't, but I do, because I've never voted on my district. I've always voted based upon what's best for this city, and so, the direct answer is none of the dollars from Watson Island would go to Overtown under the plan. This would be the last and the only great hope for funding for the kinds of activities that the Mayor has said he wants to do, such as the -- what is it called, the Center for the -- no, it's the Center -- it's the Dispute Resolution Center for the FT -- what is it? The Free Trade Zone -- the Free Trade Zone -- Vice Chairman Winton: FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas). Commissioner Teele: The FTAA. The kinds of things that will make Miami -- that will cement Miami's destiny as the leading location in this hemisphere, and in that regard, I'm prepared to say right here, right now, Miami has its opportunity. They'll have -- Miami will have other opportunities, but if I've read the newspapers correctly, I'm prepared to recommend against Items A-3 and A-4, because, candidly, it's not in my responsibility to try to make Miami what it could be. It's only my responsibility to offer options, and in that regard, I think Miami is missing a tremendous opportunity. Folks, ladies and gentlemen, this City will never have the courage, the political courage to raise taxes for building of a museum. This City will never have the courage to dedicate revenue for the building of a museum, and yet, museums will do more to stimulate and will define this community more than anything that we can do, even more than the Performing Arts Center, with all due respect. Because 100 year from now, 400 years from now, every town along the eastern seaboard will have a performing arts center. We're already -- Palm Beach has one. Broward County has one, but only one city in this hemisphere has the opportunity of being the natural museum of the hemisphere, and that's Miami, and I just hope that someone else will come along with a revenue stream that is designed to catch it. This is not taking money from the City, and I deeply resent the characterization that money is being taken from the City. If it's being taken, where's it going? Money is being directed for a priority of the City, and I would just say this, Commissioner Winton, and I'm extremely happy that Ms. Fields raised it, because everybody wants to know what's in it for me. Not a damn thing's in it for Overtown. It's for the whole City of Miami, for the whole City of Miami, and that's why the Bahamian Minister of Tourism has gone back, and for the last week, talked about Miami everyday in the newspapers and in Parliament. Because Miami is the place where people want to go, and if we don't continue to build on our infrastructure, we're just going to be another city along this seaboard. Ms. Jenkins -Fields: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for taking the time to give us those details, because that's the kind of information that we are requesting, and hope that we'll have a chance to hear more before the decision is actually made. Thank you again. Vice Chairman Winton: Commissioner Teele. Chairman Regalado: Thank you. Yes, sir. Vice Chairman Winton: Commissioner Teele. Commissioner Teele: Yes. Vice Chairman Winton: I might have misunderstood something differently all along. If these boundaries all get extended, we're not creating -- are we creating new CRAB? Are we -- being melded into either the Overtown/Park West or the Omni CRA? Commissioner Teele: No, no, no, no, no. This is only Southeast Overtown. This has nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing to do with Omni. Vice Chairman Winton: So, all of these get melded into the -- Commissioner Teele: All of this would be -- Vice Chairman Winton: -- Overtown/Park West CRA? Commissioner Teele: -- the expanded Southeast Overtown/Park West District, but as you may know, when you bring in a new area, you can treat that area as a sub -area, and we have that right now. For example, the area all the way to the south where the courthouse is. That is treated and calculated as a separate sub -area. What we have said to the Manager and to the staff all along is this would be a sub -area in which the dollars from Watson Island would go to Bicentennial, and the fact of the matter is, is that it's going to take 40 to $90 million -- the study that I have says $80 million -- to move the pump station. Look, let's face it. That space is not going to be the kind of space that we ought to have, and I mean, I don't mean -- Mr. Marco, wherever you are, Tom -- I don't mean to suggest that the City should have to pay for it. I think the County should have to pay to move the pump station. I want to be real clear on the notes on this, but if you're pumping half of the sewage of Dade County through Bicentennial Park as we're doing, or at least, about a fourth of it, you're not going to build a great destination, and just simply moving the pump station further to the north or further to the east is something that is going to require a tremendous amount of resources, as well as the shore wall, as well as the mitigation. I mean, if we're going to help these museums and their boards of directors raise the $400 million or so that's going to be necessary -- and it will not be possible without County help. It will not be possible without the use of public dollars from heads and beds and the tourist development tax, et cetera, and we should not back up to the window to ask for the money, because one-third, or at least 30 percent, 27 percent of all of the bed taxes that are collecting are collected in the City of Miami, and this is not a City of Miami project. It's a countywide project of metropolitan significance, but the fact of the matter is this: If we build the kind of structure that is being proposed there, the development is going to spill across the street unless we just turn Bicentennial Park into a giant parking lot, into a giant bus terminals, et cetera, so a part of the whole strategy that we've been engaged in with the club districts and along the whole area of 11th Street and 10th Street and the Grand Promenade is to begin to lay the groundwork and to anticipate that eventually there will be some development along Biscayne Boulevard and the Bicentennial, and if we don't do it now -- and this is the important thing. First and foremost, I believe that we have to confer with and seek the advice of the County, and contrary to what the County letter may suggest, we have always said that the advice of the County should be -- must be sought in this matter, but there is one thing for which there is no disagreement. If we don't act by July 1 on the boundary issue, the opportunity -- the immediate opportunity to address the boundaries as it relates to Watson Island and Bicentennial will be gone, and so we have the opportunity today to deal with this issue or whenever the Commission gets around to it, before July 1st, but the fact of the matter is, I want to just say on the record -- because there is this inference that I'm delivering money to Overtown or that I'm taking money from the City. The last time I checked, you know, Bicentennial is still going to be a part of the City. The $400 million parks are going to be the -- are going to be, by a multiplier of five or ten, more important than the Performing Arts Center, in terms of what it will bring and the kinds and quality of people that are going to be coming to this City, and the fact of the matter is, is that this City has not had a capital commitment. It is a structural deficit and deficiency that the Oversight Board, that Merritt Stierheim identified that the Oversight Board, that we've all identified. Mr. Manager, if you go and ask your finance people to give you an average of the capital dollars that we have spent from the general fund this year, not with -- for the last five years, notwithstanding the fact that we've collected $12 million a year of parking surcharge money, notwithstanding the fact that all of that money is coming from one downtown area, including Brickell. You know, we have been totally irresponsible, irresponsible as a Commission in terms of capital improvements. We hear it from Little Haiti. We hear it from Coconut Grove. We hear it from Allapattah. We hear it from everywhere. The one thing about these dollars is that the money can only be spent in the area, and it would only be able to be spent for capital improvements, subject to the State law 163, so, you know, I don't know where -- that there is, but I must tell you, I take deep offense to what I've shared with the Manager, coming from his staff, especially, that there -- this is an effort to take money away from the City, and to, somehow, punish or penalize the City. Because the fact of the matter is, 50 percent of the money -- This should be not my issue. This should be Johnny Winton's issue, but I don't mind telling you. I'm the one who put my butt on the line for the Performing Arts Center, when I had a County Commission in revolt. Javier Soto demanded no votes on this thing. I'm the one who basically pulled it together and got a vote of 11 to 2 for the Performing Arts Center, so I take very strong exception to the notion that this is money that's going to go away from the City. Any dollars we can put to build our culture and to bring -- to give people something to come to is money well - spent, and this City has got to break out of the habit of spending 97 percent of its dollars for the operation of an employment system, in which 75, 80 percent of the people don't even live in the City -- and that's their right and I don't have a problem with that -- but, somehow, we've got to say an equal priority is going to be our parks, and an equal priority is going to be our capital improvement in these areas, and we're never going to get there if we're just going to go tin cap -- tin cup to the -- to Miami -Dade County and beg them for money from the Performing -- from the TDC (Tourist Development Council), from the Tourist Development taxes and other places. We've got to put some money forward, I think, if we ever really want to make this museum a reality, and build the kind of cultural epicenter that the Omni, that Bicentennial, and that downtown could represent. Chairman Regalado: OK. Johnny. Vice Chairman Winton: Yeah. Actually, I want to add a couple of -- I want to say one thing first. I'm leaving at 7 p.m. I was supposed to be gone at 6:30. I'm leaving at 7. Chairman Regalado: Let me just say, Johnny, that we all need to -- Commissioner Sanchez: Seven. Chairman Regalado: -- leave at 7 because there is the cabinet -- Vice Chairman Winton: All right, so -- Chairman Regalado: -- and we should, you know -- Vice Chairman Winton: But I want to say some things. Yeah, I know this is the public hearing portion, but -- Eleanor Kluger: I bow to you. Vice Chairman Winton: Sorry, Eleanor. Ms. Kluger: That's OK. Vice Chairman Winton: I have a whole host of things I want to say, and that is that when Commissioner Teele talked about the potential to create a mecca for arts and culture in this area, he isn't even coming close to stretching the truth. We've had at least three other museum cultural facilities come to us; one, a hugely respected facility in New York City that wants to create a new -- an additional facility in the City of Miami, a major -- that's one. A sports memorabilia museum that seems to have all their money already lined up, anxious to come into this area, a guy from Holland, who, with his own money, bought a military ship. I forgot what kind. Turned it into a -- minesweeper. That's right. -- into a floating museum, using his money. Ended up giving it to the government of Holland, requiring that they maintain it and run it, and it has the ability to have rotating displays on the interior of the ship ongoing all the time. He has come to us; wants to do the same thing here in the United States because he's had long-time connections to the City of Miami and isn't asking for anything, so that's the kind of activity -- and that all has come out of one thing and one thing only -- what we've all done in this area down here, and there's a few other things. One, in regards to what Commissioner Teele's talking about as it relates to capital dollars. There's an agenda item somewhere. I think it may be in the City Commission part or something -- next City -- I don't know. It's in one of these damn packets, where we're being asked to approve another six and a half, almost $7 million in operating funds in mid -year budget adjustment. You know, we can't get -- you know, I'm not blaming the Manager, but there's something wrong with our system. Seven million dollars in new operating costs that we're going to approve in mid- year, and we can't get, you know, a million dollars to do this and do that, and another thing -- and I'm going to -- and I don't mean to be overly critical of my colleagues, but by and large, we've only paid lip service to improving downtown, and as I've showed all of you when we were debating the bond issue, 55 percent of the revenue of the City of Miami to support all these neighborhoods comes out of District 2, but when it came time to do infrastructure improvements, we divided it equally and you didn't hear me complain about that one time, not once. I didn't say one thing about it. I agreed we would cut this first tranche equally because I know we all have great needs in our neighborhoods, but the fact of the matter is, if we don't invest money in downtown Miami, then you guys are going to be looking for new sources of revenue to support your damn neighborhoods. Because downtown's going to go downhill and you guys are going to be looking for new tax money, and it comes from District 2, and we only pay lip service. We did it earlier today. We paid lip service about how we want to improve downtown. We're all talking about how important downtown is, but every time it comes to a vote, nothing happens, so, Commissioner Teele's providing some leadership here, and I'm going to get to the last point about CRA. I've been asked by a million people -- I've been chewed by a whole bunch others about this whole idea of expanding the CRA boundaries, and I've had a whole bunch of pretty nasty debates with people, and it comes down to this, and I will blame me, first and foremost. The public doesn't trust us as a CRA in managing this process and the money, but I will tell you -- and that's my fault. That's nobody else's fault. There's things that I've done that I should pay better attention. There's things that I need to know that I don't know, and I'm going to correct that, but I will tell you, when you think of the logic of what Commissioner Teele's trying to do, it's absolutely brilliant. Why? Because it prevents government -- and that's what government does. Government can absorb every damn dime you can ever hope to find and eat it up overnight in operations, because that's what government does. It ain't just the City of Miami. It's all over the place, so that's what government's good at doing, absorbing all the money. The CRA prevents that. It captures the increased values and it goes back into all kinds of improvements in the district, and as Commissioner Teele said, five years ago, there was no money in either of the increments, none. Now, there is money. Are we spending it right? Are we spending it appropriately? Are we spending it with a master plan? Maybe all the answers to that to date are "no," but it isn't all "no." There's some of it that's real "yes," and I'll tell you that, in this job, as $5,000 a year Commissioners, which also has the job of running the CRA -- so we get nothing for that - - Commissioner Teele's job is virtually impossible. If he asked me to take the helm of the CRA today, I would flat say "no," because it is too much burden for this part-time job we have, and what we have to do, as a board, is provide more support to the structure of the CRA so that we can -- and do a better job at communicating to the public -- so that we can create that trust out there. If it weren't for that one issue, this whole thing is a no- brainer. Because not only do we capture the increment that is going to get poured into an endless pit in the City of Miami -- if we let it go that way -- we get to capture County dollars that go into the other endless pit that direction, and I will tell you that neither the County, nor the City, nor their leadership has spent $2 on downtown Miami in forever. The only project we've done in downtown Miami -- and it took 12 years to get it done and we're starting -- is the Flagler Street Marketplace project, and that's the only thing anybody's ever done from the County standpoint or the City standpoint. This is a no- brainer, and it seems to me that the task we have to do, and the task that I'm going to make sure we do as a CRA, is I'm going to take a different approach to it, and I'm going to make sure that when people ask me questions in the future about how the -- what our strategic plan is, how we spend our dollars, why we're doing all those things, I'm going to have answers. Because we go to these board meetings and we're too damned busy. We don't have enough time, and thank God, somebody's making this whole thing run, and maybe it doesn't run the way we all want it to run, but we can fix that problem in terms of how the overall operations work, but we only get one opportunity, as Commissioner Teele just said, to capture the money to do infrastructure improvements, and I will tell you further that I don't trust -- I'm going to fight like hell for a much bigger percentage of the second tranche on the bond issue, or if there's more money in the first tranche, but in all of that money that's out there, which is over a long period of time, there still isn't enough money to do what we need to do in downtown, and I, frankly, don't know how to get the money we need to develop the infrastructure we need in this area short of this vehicle. I don't know how to do it, so the question that I have to deal with is, am I going to vote "no" tonight and say, "Let's continue to grab all the money we can. Pour it into the engine of the City of Miami's Operations and never do any infrastructure improvements, or follow the kind of bold view that Commissioner Teele has developed here and grab this money and spend it in the neighborhood? And I'll tell you, I'm hard-pressed, given the long history of the City of Miami, the long history of the County, the current process that we all go through, to be able to count on something else coming to the rescue here. I don't know what it is, and if any of you guys out there have an idea, you better come tell me in the next ten minutes, because that's our last chance, and I want to hear those ideas if you got them, but if you don't, I don't know what else to do other than this. Chairman Regalado: Commissioner Sanchez. Commissioner Sanchez: Mr. Chairman -- Johnny, let me just say -- and I often say this -- we continue to pay for the sins of the past. Let me just say that the Mayor even addressed and identified over $400 million worth of delayed or outright ignored capital improvements citywide. I mean, for so many years, the City, through whatever you want to say, poor leadership, corruption, however you want to label it, did not put money into capital improvements, so where do we find ourselves today? Yeah, your district makes the most money, but if you start taking money that's going into capital improvements into one area, in the long run, you're going to create more worst conditions in areas, such as Allapattah, Little Havana. I would yield if you -- I'll yield. Vice Chairman Winton: No. See, that's just the point. When you spend money here, what do you end up with? You don't end up with a single-family house, Joe. You end up with big, giant projects that pour tons of money into the general fund. That's the big difference here, and that's what will create the money that we need that helps single- family residential neighborhoods. Commissioner Sanchez: Johnny, fine, but we're talking -- Vice Chairman Winton: And it's -- by the way -- wait, wait. Commissioner Sanchez: We're talking Roads. Vice Chairman Winton: Wait, wait. Commissioner Sanchez: We're talking sewers. Vice Chairman Winton: Let me -- Commissioner Sanchez: We're talking sidewalks. Vice Chairman Winton: Let me make another point to you. Let me make another point to you, Joe. Look at the facts. Where does the money come from today? It comes from District 2 to support the entire City. Why? Not because District 2's magic, but because that's where all the big stuff gets built, and where is that money going today? Commissioner Sanchez: But it was the boundaries that created that, Johnny. Vice Chairman Winton: I don't care. I'm telling -- Commissioner Sanchez: I could argue -- listen, with all due respect, I admire you. I like you as a friend. Vice Chairman Winton: You haven't -- Commissioner Sanchez: But I could make arguments day and night. If your district is the wealthiest and if it was mine, I wouldn't mind sharing my wealth because I'm a Commissioner for a district -- Vice Chairman Winton: I am sharing the wealth. Where the hell do you think the money's going? Commissioner Sanchez: Well, it's going -- but, see -- Vice Chairman Winton: The money is being shared. Commissioner Sanchez: But -- Vice Chairman Winton: It's going to feed the whole City. Commissioner Sanchez: But hold on. Vice Chairman Winton: That's the point. Commissioner Sanchez: Hold on. Here's the thing with this, and let me just make it to the point. Watson Island, when we went out and we went out and we wanted the support of the residents to vote on a referendum to allow development in Watson Island -- this is what I want to get to because, you know, we forget these things. We went out there and we sold it to the voters. Everybody that was here that voted on it, we went out and said Watson Island, we're going to develop it. We're going to rent it for $2 million. That's a recurring revenue to the City, and not only that, but the land itself and the revenues that'll be coming in from the project will go into the City. Who voted on that referendum? Was it just District 2? Was it District 3? Was it District 5? Commissioner Teele: It was the City. Commissioner Sanchez: I'll get to that point. We could debate this day and night, but let me just say something. That's what we went out and we sold it on. To say this, that we're going to put it on Bicentennial, I could make the argument that we could bond out and bring the money to create -- hell, we were going to do it for a baseball stadium. We could do it for museums. Vice Chairman Winton: Both -- Commissioner Sanchez: People will support more museum -- Vice Chairman Winton: Both Commissioner Teele -- Commissioner Sanchez: -- than baseball stadiums. Vice Chairman Winton: -- and I would support taking that completely off if you find that bonding money. We're done. Commissioner Sanchez: Well, we could find it. Vice Chairman Winton: Find it. I'll be thrilled to death. What, do you think he wants to sit here and go through this -- Commissioner Teele? He doesn't want to do. He doesn't want to sit -- What's he gain out of this? Nothing. Commissioner Teele: I can tell you -- Vice Chairman Winton: He's just trying -- Commissioner Teele: I can tell you one thing, since you said it. You're going to see a different Commissioner Teele on this dais come September, and I'm telling you, I'm serving notice right here, right now. For five years -- it was a 4 to 1 vote -- it was a 4 to 1 vote. I was the newest guy here. Four people voted "no." All of them had agreed to do it beforehand. It was a 4 to 1 vote, OK, and then the Oversight Board said if you don't do it, we're going to shut you down. We're going to take away your power. It's a 3 to 2 vote. You see, Johnny, this is the problem. Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. The money came up for the fire fee -- 3 to 2, 3 to 2. As soon as the vote -- bill passed, the fire fee money was going -- I mean, before the damn ink even dried, there were resolutions to spend the money, OK, and what I'm saying is old Uncle Teele is no longer going to be the sucker to vote, because this ain't got nothing to do with my district. I'll deal with all the folks who want to say what's in it for me, what's in it for me. You know, because the fact of the matter is, that's what's killed this City, the pandering to everybody that comes up with a protest or with a gimmick. We're here to make decisions. We need to make decisions, and the fact of the matter is, this is not in my district's best interest. This proposal that I have that I'm catching hell from my district and from The Herald is not in my district. This is the right thing to do for this City. Because if you ever want this City to move ahead and to create the kind of economic engine, we've got to have something that's going to bring people to Miami, and something that's going to generate the kind of jobs -- and it's not going to be building homes in Overtown, or homes in Allapattah, or homes in Little Havana. It's going to have to have some engines. We're killing -- I sat here with Willy Gort and J. L. Plummer from the day we passed the parking surcharge -- Mr. Manager, and you know I've said this for three years, we should set aside a part of the parking surcharge for capital. If we don't set it aside, you know what's going to happen? That giant sucking sound folks -- Vice Chairman Winton: And what happens? Commissioner Teele: -- and it goes out in salaries and benefits, and all the other things that go on, and so, all that I'm saying is I'm just serving notice. Because what I was proposing was a painless way -- this is not -- you know, everybody keeps talking about it's not going to the City. Bicentennial Park is a part of the City. It is the only major program that I have seen since I was elected in 1990 to the County Commission, this museum in the park is the most significant thing that I have seen and witnessed. It's not my idea. I'm not authoring it. I don't pretend to be the father or the uncle of it, but what I'm saying is this: Great ideas have to have funding streams, and I will say this. The Loews Hotel deal was my legislation. The legislation for the black hotel on Miami Beach was my legislation. It was a tax increment district. You want to know where the money came from for the Loews? It came from the creation of a tax increment district that I authored because Joe Gerstein, God bless him, was holding the City of Miami Beach hostage for only God knows how many different things he wanted; wouldn't put it forward. The Performing Arts Center was my legislation, and I will say this. It was a rape of the City. I've said it before and I'll say it again. It took unfair advantage of the City. Why did it take advantage of the City? Because it required that the first million for each year thereafter go to the Performing Arts Center, and the City got nothing for it -- I mean, the City gets the development and all that, but it's a County facility. Here you have the opportunity to put into place what I think we all realize is beginning to develop along the Omni, along Bicentennial, and, obviously, building off of Bayside, the American Airline Arena, an opportunity that doesn't cost anybody's district anything. That's what's such a no-brainer about this. This isn't taking $1 from Overtown. It's not taking one dollar from Little Havana. It's not taking $1 from Upper Eastside. It's only taking dollars that are in the area and limiting them and channeling them back into the same area for the redevelopment of that area. Commissioner Sanchez: But, Commissioner Teele, we're talking about a large amount of money. It's a burden -- it's a revenue burden to the City, and also, who's going to pay for the services? The City ends up paying for the services. Commissioner Teele: City gets $2 million untouched. Commissioner Sanchez: We're talking about more than that. We're talking about, if you look at A-3 -- A-4 itself, how much -- they did the study -- how much -- Mr. City Manager, if we were to give up A-4, OK, because right now we're making zippo out of Bicentennial -- A-4 -- Commissioner Teele: Give it up (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Commissioner Sanchez: Well, it's not giving it up, OK, but revenue -- Commissioner Teele: Don't say give it up -- Commissioner Sanchez: OK, the revenue. Commissioner Teele: -- because it is the City of Miami. Commissioner Sanchez: Fine, but the money itself -- Commissioner Teele: And we're killing the goose. Commissioner Sanchez: Well, you know. You're going -- Commissioner Teele: But it is the City. Commissioner Sanchez: You're going to basically be creating, in other areas of the City, what you're trying to do away with, which is slum and blight conditions. That's my argument. I want to know how much will be going into the TIF and not into the revenues of the City of Miami if we were to convert A-4 into the CRA. Please, state that for the record. I'll tell you what. Forget the 30 years because it's millions. Ten years. Marcelo Penha: Marcelo Penha, Budget Director. We have presented four different scenarios for you depending on growth rates. Right now, I refer to Scenario 1, which talks about just the City portion. If we go out to 2012, we're talking about City taxes close to about $5 million. Commissioner Sanchez: Per what? Per year? Vice Chairman Winton: At what growth rate? What's the growth rate? Mr. Penha: Scenario 1 has a growth rate for the first ten years, 15 percent years -- Vice Chairman Winton: Fifteen percent what? Per year? Mr. Penha: Correct. Vice Chairman Winton: Try that on me again. Mr. Penha: Fifteen percent growth per year on the taxable value. Vice Chairman Winton: How the hell do you figure that? On Watson Island? On one development? Mr. Penha: Watson Island was not that growth rate. Watson Island -- I apologize for that -- was a growth rate of -- I believe we used three percent, after the -- we used a -- Vice Chairman Winton: But he's talking about Watson Island. Mr. Penha: Watson Island alone, then, would comprise most of that of about 4.3 million dollars of the 4.9 I stated. Vice Chairman Winton: Beginning when? Mr. Penha: Watson Island, we projected to come in in fiscal year 2006 at little over three and a half million, or $350 million. Vice Chairman Winton: What? Three and a half million or three hundred and fifty million? Mr. Penha: No. Three hundred and fifty million construction, which bring in taxes of about 3.6 million. Vice Chairman Winton: With a three percent annual growth rate? Mr. Penha: Correct. Vice Chairman Winton: Three point six million. That's the City's increment. Mr. Penha: City's. Vice Chairman Winton: Only. Doesn't count -- Mr. Penha: Only. Vice Chairman Winton: -- doesn't include the County. Commissioner Teele: This breaks the budget. This breaks the back. Vice Chairman Winton: Yeah. We're going to -- let's say -- we got a request for a mid- year adjustment of 6.7 million in operations. Chairman Regalado: Mr. Manager, you want to comment on those figures or should we proceed with the public hearing? Mr. Gimenez: Those figures are correct. Over a 35 -year period, it's $231 million. It starts out an average of three and it goes up, probably in year -- last year, it was about $8 million a year. Vice Chairman Winton: What's the annual growth rate on that schedule? Mr. Gimenez: That's three percent on that one piece. If you look at a -- Vice Chairman Winton: No, no. I'm not talking about the -- you just gave a number of 280 million. What's that on? Mr. Gimenez: Two hundred and thirty-one million dollars. That's the -- that is the tax increment from Watson Island over the period that we looked at -- was thirty-five years, Marcelo? Mr. Penha: Correct. Mr. Gimenez: -- was $231 million at a three percent growth rate, and that -- if you look at all A through -- Vice Chairman Winton: That's accumulative amount of taxes. Mr. Gimenez: That's correct. Vice Chairman Winton: OK. Mr. Gimenez: Two hundred and thirty-one million. Commissioner Sanchez: That's not peanuts. Commissioner Teele: (INAUDIBLE) because the CRA goes out of existence -- you know, the CRA is not a permanent entity. It goes out -- it dies -- Commissioner Sanchez: Twenty years. Commissioner Teele: -- a natural death. What -- in 20 years, 21 years, I think. What happens in 20 years? What's the amount of money in 20 years? Commissioner Sanchez: Got to be around what, 180, 170? Commissioner Teele: What is the annual revenue stream? Mr. Gimenez: Well, it starts out in year 2006 at 3.6 million, and the reason that's the case, that's when we anticipate that Flagstone is going to come on-line. If you look at years 2004 and 5, you have 400 -- close to 450,000. That's -- Commissioner Teele: Mr. Manager. Mr. Gimenez: Yes, sir. Commissioner Teele: I, respectfully, asked you twice -- I'm going to ask you the third time -- would you bring us an analysis of Bayfront -- Bayside? You remember we asked you, "Give us an analysis of when Bayside was started construction and what it brings on-line in terms of taxable income." Because these are very, very -- and this is the same thing I said to Mayor Carollo. Anybody who tries to talk about balancing a budget, you know, based upon new development, is got a political -- must have a political life of about 12 years, because those dollars don't really begin to kick in until year eight, nine, and ten, you know, and, Johnny, you know more about this than I do, but I think we're being very aggressive. I understand Bayside didn't even turn a profit until they had been open for like nine years. Mr. Gimenez: This is just accessed value of the property. The particular project we're talking about right now is north of $300 million, just the project itself. Commissioner Teele: And you're saying that $300 million is going to be spent in three years? Mr. Gimenez: I'm talking -- the price -- Vice Chairman Winton: No, that's the construction cost. Mr. Gimenez: -- the price of the construction -- Commissioner Teele: But that's -- but you're talking about ad -- but you're computing an ad valorem tax based on that, right? Mr. Gimenez: Yes, sir, and what we've been told -- what we've been led to believe from our developer -- Commissioner Teele: You're computing an ad valorem tax based upon $300 million in construction, and it'll be on line in three years? Mr. Gimenez: 2006, that's what the analysis shows. Commissioner Teele: So, in four years? Mr. Gimenez: Yes, sir, and, again, it depends on the timing. I mean, when do you get your CO (Certificate of Occupancy)? So, it's either four years, five years. Commissioner Teele: And it's a year from that. You see, the fact of the matter is a year from when it comes on line -- I'm telling you, these numbers are like -- Johnny, you're the developer, but I'm telling you, these numbers -- Vice Chairman Winton: Well, even if he's wrong a little bit, I mean, the point is -- you made the point, $3.6 million; the City's going to go bankrupt. Yes, it's $3.6 million a year. Commissioner Teele: A year. Vice Chairman Winton: You bond that out, then you can do 40 or $50 million worth of improvements. Well, the damn museum's 500 million. Commissioner Teele: Well, let me give you a revenue -- let me give you a reality. Vice Chairman Winton: And we're going to -- Commissioner Teele: Let me give you a reality, though. Johnny, if we're going to have museums, and even under Giuliani, who cut the budgets, we have got to think in terms of how are we going to support, on a reoccurring [sic] basis, the operations based upon the dollars that come in? If you go and look at New York's budget, and even under Giuliani, it was culture; it was the arts; that's what kept the economy moving. If you bring Giuliani here to this town, he will talk about the impact of the arts on New York, and so the point that I'm making is this, the $3 million, in my judgment, is not money to just strictly bond out. We need to think in terms the same way -- how much do we spend for Bayfront Trust right now to keep that going? Commissioner Sanchez: One million eight. Commissioner Teele: One million eight of general fund dollars, right? OK, and you're going to tell me we -- Mr. Gimenez: I think there's a million -- Commissioner Teele: I don't think it's that much. Mr. Gimenez: -- I think it's a million -- close to a million dollars of subsidy. Commissioner Teele: I think it's a million two. Commissioner Sanchez: No, no. It's close -- Mr. Gimenez: It's a million dollar subsidy. Commissioner Teele: It's a million two. Commissioner Sanchez: No, no, it's not a million two. Commissioner Teele: Well, it's not one eight. It's a million -- let's agree that -- Commissioner Sanchez: I say it's -- Commissioner Teele: -- it's a million dollars. Commissioner Sanchez: -- a million eighty dollars. That's what it is. Commissioner Teele: A million. Commissioner Sanchez: OK. Commissioner Teele: A million dollars, and the fact of the matter is that's a city -owned park that has no real daily activities and daily events, but look what it does for our community, look what it does for our community. This whole Raceworks, looks what it's going to bring to our community. We've got to invest in downtown, folks, and you know, this is an opportunity to do it, but Johnny, I'm -- I mean, I'm at the point now where I would much rather, for the sake of unity and the sake of clarity, demap A-3 and A-4 because that's the only one that has the impact. The rest of them are going to wind up costing money some kind of way. They're all government -- everything under 395 and all that is government-owned, so that generates no dollars, so all you're going to do is spend money there, since the DOT (Department of Transportation) and the City and the County aren't going to do it. It's got to be done, and that's where we are. Commissioner Sanchez: Would you make the motion? Commissioner Teele: I'll -- I'd be more than happy after the end of the public hearing, but I'd be happy to make a motion to demap A-3 and A-4. Commissioner Sanchez: A-3 and A-4 Commissioner Teele: I would so move as a motion. Commissioner Sanchez: Second. Chairman Regalado: OK. We have a motion and a second; still for discussion. This is a public hearing. I -- you know, I just want to remind the members of the Commission that we're supposed to have a meeting with the members of the Cabinet around this time, and I don't know what you guys want to do in terms of the CRA meeting. Commissioner Teele: Well, that's going to have to be postponed. Chairman Regalado: If you want to come back later at night or -- Commissioner Teele: No. The harmony and the energy of this Commission is such, Mr. Chairman, that for the good of the order, it's much better to close the book and everybody have a -- Commissioner Sanchez: Nice dinner. Commissioner Teele: -- nice dinner and come back Thursday, and see how we can put the harmony back together. Vice Chairman Winton: Well, I'll tell you, it's going to take some, from my viewpoint because I think I've worked real hard to be as harmonious as anybody here, but you know, there's been two significant potential votes today negative about downtown, and so -- and there hasn't been any strong votes nor strong voices to force any money to be spent downtown, so you know, I don't know -- you know, I'm struggling. Commissioner Sanchez: Johnny, you said it best. The next -- come around and borrow money, I think there's support in this Commission to help you out in the downtown area, but I'm telling you, the effect that -- the burden this will bring on the City on a revenue, not on a one-year, on a long-term, it could be dangerous for the City. Commissioner Teele: I will tell you this, Commissioner, I have sat here for three years. I don't disagree with you on anything you say because those are your opinions, but I have sat here and been the third vote -- or one of three votes on $3 million difference every year. I will not be that vote anymore, because it's real clear to me this ain't about downtown or a community. This is about the City, the City of Miami, and we are basically killing the goose, and I resent very much, Johnny, your statement, candidly, that you haven't heard any strong voices because I've got to tell you something -- Vice Chairman Winton: No. I -- Commissioner Teele: -- you know, I'm so -- Vice Chairman Winton: I'm -- Commissioner Teele: I am so peed off about the way this thing is being played off like I'm taking money from the goddamn City. I mean, where am I taking it? Commissioner Sanchez: No one's -- I haven't accused you of that. Commissioner Teele: Well, read today's Miami Herald, like I'm taking money, and you continue to say, we made a commitment to the citizens -- or the money will come to the City. Bicentennial Park will be for this City and it will be for every resident of this City. Commissioner Sanchez: The voters that voted on that referendum, it was sold to them that the two million -plus of recurring revenue will go back into the City. That's the bottom line. Commissioner Teele: And Bicentennial -- Commissioner Sanchez: Mr. City Manager, wasn't that the selling point that we did? If we're going to sit here and lie to the voters, I don't want a part of it. Commissioner Teele: But, Joe, the point that I'm trying to make is Bicentennial Park is just as much a part of the City -- Commissioner Sanchez: I agree with you, but when they voted, --- you tell them --- All right, we're going to -- listen, you're going to let us vote a referendum to develop Bicen - - I mean, Watson Island, but the money's going to come into Bicentennial for museums? No. We went out there, and Mr. City Manager, you went out to the radio, and most of us Commissioners went out and sold it, because I know I did to my voters, and I told them the money's going to be used for this, so if, today, we're going to vote to use it for something else, I'm voting no. Commissioner Teele: Joe, I'm going to move this off of the agenda because I think it's taken us down the wrong path, but I will tell you right here, right now. There is nothing in this for my district. I answered even one of the people who have an interest in Overtown candidly and honestly, maybe not what she wanted to hear when she said what's in it for Overtown, and I said, directly, nothing, none of the money, but it's something in it for the City. This project is the most significant project, as a public official in local government, that I have ever seen, and I commend the Manager, and the staff, and Commissioner Winton, and all of the citizens who went out and do it, but you know what, folks, if we don't come up with revenue streams, if we don't figure out revenue streams that are painless, that don't take money from my neighborhood or your neighborhood, OK -- and this is not something where -- you know, I've heard you make all of the arguments about protecting neighborhoods and all of that, and Joe, I'm not singling you out, but I don't understand the logic of not wanting to have an area, like you have on South Beach, where the money stays within the area for an even bigger development. Commissioner Sanchez: Art, and you spoke about New York. If we were in New York and we were in a situation, we would be wealthier and healthier when it comes to finance. I don't have a problem. We -- you can't compare us to New York. Their budget is $75 billion -- million dollars, I think. Commissioner Teele: But you're never going to get there, if you don't invest. Commissioner Sanchez: Well -- Commissioner Teele: If you spend everything -- Commissioner Sanchez: -- but you don't get there overnight, Art. Commissioner Teele: Joe -- Commissioner Sanchez: You don't get there overnight. Commissioner Teele: -- there won't be one dollar impact on this for three years, and I'm telling you it won't be one dollar impact on this for five years, or one significant dollars - - a multimillion dollar impact, OK, and if Flagstone is saying they're going to develop something in three years, you know, then I want to vote every time they come up because I don't want to be accused of delaying it because it just doesn't happen like that. Commissioner Sanchez: Does this include Parrot Jungle? Does this include Miami Outboard Club? Does this include the Yacht Club? That's Watson Island, too. Commissioner Teele: What does $50 million -- ? The Parrot Jungle, optimistically, is $50 million, right? Unidentified Speaker: Yes, it does include the Parrot Jungle. Commissioner Teele: What does Parrot Jungle generate annually? Vice Chairman Winton: The Parrot Jungle's only paying pilot. The Parrot Jungle's not going to be on the tax base. Commissioner Sanchez: Sure. Commissioner Teele: Yes, they are. Vice Chairman Winton: I thought they were only paying pilot. Mr. Gimenez: No. They have to be. Mr. Vilarello: No. Mr. Gimenez: They're a commercial enterprise. By the City, they -- Commissioner Teele: What's $50 million? Mr. Vilarello: I think you're thinking about the tourist and convention -- Vice Chairman Winton: Maybe it is -- Mr. Vilarello: Yeah. Vice Chairman Winton: -- and I thought some -- I thought -- Mr. Vilarello: The Parrot Jungle will be (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Vice Chairman Winton: OK. Commissioner Teele: The convention center doesn't pay. What is $50 million in City -- 9 Unidentified Speaker: The $50 million are taxable? Commissioner Teele: Ad valorem taxes. Unidentified Speaker: We're estimating first year in 2004 at about four hundred and -- Commissioner Teele: Four hundred thousand dollars, right. Mr. Gimenez: That's why, when you look at the chart, it'll have two figures in the -- like half a million dollar range, and then it'll go -- then it jumps up. Commissioner Teele: How much County taxes, which (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for Bicentennial -- or Parrot Jungle? Unidentified Speaker: Parrot Jungle, about -- we're estimating about 280. Commissioner Teele: Well, Marco, you win. Chairman Regalado: OK. Listen -- Commissioner Sanchez: All right. Call the question on the motion. Chairman Regalado: -- I don't know what we're going to -- what we want to do. This is a public hearing still. We have a commitment that we have to fulfill, but you know, I just have to say something. Johnny is frustrated, and with reason; he's right, because of downtown. This Commission has always make a commitment -- made a commitment to downtown Miami, and sometimes, as today, we did not fulfill because we could not get the neighborhoods, so like Joe said, we need to renew that commitment, but in practice, not only in words, and for me -- maybe I am wrong, maybe I am too simple, but what I think is going on here, Arthur, is that we all admire your ideas. I think that that idea is a great one. However, we just don't have faith in the infrastructure of the CRA because we do not have the ability to bring all that money to real capital improvement in Bicentennial because it is a City park, so your ideas are important to us and I hope that you can -- Vice Chairman Winton: Well, I would suggest we hear the rest of the public hearing and vote. Chairman Regalado: That is what we're here for. Eleanor, go ahead. Eleanor Kluger: I'd like to say -- Eleanor Kluger. I'm the advisory board president. It really has been interesting to hear the discussion going on here, and I think all of our constituents needed these explanations because most of us read about it in the paper this morning and knew nothing of this happening. I have been on the Bicentennial board in order to try to move that park forward. I have been a business owner in the downtown and in the Omni area, specifically, for over 40 years, and everything you're saying is absolutely correct. No dollars have come into the poor areas of downtown to really build it up. The way our county and city has grown, we should have expanded the downtown all the way to Northwest 36th Street, and it should be a booming business, and we all should be prospering instead of being the fourth poorest city, and so there are things that we have set forth in the last five and six years that give most of the people in the downtown and in this City hope that there will be improvements, and we have -- the County has set up with the DDA (Downtown Development Authority) a empowerment trust that has come to Miami, and yet, it is not receiving the support that it should, but it is doing things in the poor areas more so than any other organization that I have been a part of, and if we had more dollars, I think that these things could come forth. The Watson Island and Bicentennial Park do fall within the empowerment trust area, and our city fathers did make sure that Omni was also put in the Empowerment Trust, so there was five and six years ago a strong push to look at these poor areas, or these undeveloped areas to better them and to bring dollars into the City. I do appreciate Teele's coming into the CRA within the last five years. Before that, we had Commissioner Dawkins, and then we had Commissioner Hernandez, and before Teele, nothing seemed to move. We all just bickered. Teele has done things that no other Commissioner has been able to do with the CRA. I think the problem is that it's just too new, Commissioner Teele, and that the trust isn't there where we've had trust, even though maybe ill-founded, in our City Commissioners, and for the fact that we have been included in many of the discussions that are now Commissioner Winton has given forth for the Bicentennial Park. He has invited all of us into the discussions. We have tried to solve the problems. We find that your knowledge of everything is extremely beneficial to us, and we all need to take heed of it. I, again, came here to not be in favor of Watson Island or Bicentennial going into the CRA because I'm anxious for you to, as Dorothy Fields, pay attention to the areas that we need so badly done and have not been -- and not through any fault of your own, because you are moving ahead on it, but are you taking on a bigger chunk than your organization is capable of? We don't know, and I also don't know the finances, things that you know of -- you know, that you're enlightening us on ways that we could then get more money for the park, and that is Commissioner Winton's main objective is to make sure that the museum parks are coming forth and not just sitting there as plans. I've sat with Commissioner Winton on the DDA and we've talked about plans and plans and more plans, and that's something he does not want to have happen. He is giving us some kind of a time frame to say, hey, we need the dollars. Maybe we need to go and work closer with the County. Maybe we need to work closer with the Empowerment Trust. There are dollars. There are ways of getting dollars for the areas. I don't know why it has to be that July 1 is your deadline, and that is something that, again, we are not privy to, and we are not privy also to all of the dollars that you are talking about, you know, tax dollars; we don't see those things unless you explain them to us, and so, at this point, I don't know which way to go. Commissioner Teele: Eleanor, let me just clarify one point. What we're proposing is no different from what was proposed in 90 -- in -- some years ago by the Omni, but not by the Omni Board; by the County Commission, and that is to say, the dollars that are collected here, up to $1.4 million, which, by the way, was projected to be about 2006, will stay in that area and go for that project. Essentially, what we would be doing is not spending the money, at all. We would be turning the money over to the entities that will run the Bicentennial Park Trust or the structure for the building and the operation of those museums, the same way we've done for the Performing Art Center, and it's taking County dollars and City dollars for what is clearly of metropolitan significance, but I just want to say one final point, Eleanor. I served on the County Commission. I voted on a lot of projects at the airport, seaport, Performing Art Center, and as well the issue of Loew's hotel and the black hotel. I have never seen a project that has the financial potential to reinvigorate and to accelerate development more than the museum project that has been developed by the community under Commissioner Winton's leadership, and I buy into it 100 percent. It's the right thing for this community, and maybe this isn't the funding mechanism. This isn't the end of the world. You know, there'll be another day, another Commission, another group, but I will tell you this. It's only going to get harder to come up with revenue streams. It's not going to get easier. Ms. Kluger: Right. I definitely support what you're saying, have always supported it; have been an outspoken person in the area, and the only thing that I worry about is that it's another bureaucracy laid over this same area. We have the City, we would then have the CRA, and we have the Empowerment Trust, so I'm finished talking. Chairman Regalado: Thank you. Go ahead. Bernice Butler: Hi. I'm Bernice Butler with the Collin Center for Public Policy. I'm a part of the Overtown Transformation project that's been funded by the Knight Foundation that's also involved with the BAME (Bethel African Methodist Episcopal) CDC (Community Development Corporation), the Black Archives, the St. John CDC, LISC (Local Initiative Support Corporation), and the Trust for Public Land, but I'm not here this afternoon to talk about what's in it for me or what's in it for any particular group. I'm not in it to talk about where the money goes or what district, or what have you, but rather, I want to talk about something that Commissioner Winton mentioned and Eleanor also just mentioned, and that's public trust. A lot of the people in a lot of the CRA area is still disenfranchised with the purpose. They feel that nothing they say, their vision, their thoughts, their culture, their history, their desires will just not be heard. They feel like they are not fully informed about the process. In fact, you all up here, just ten minutes ago, just finished with a discussion that -- and I -- you said that you don't really have faith, so you can imagine what some of us laypeople, some of the people in Overtown and some of the other communities feel. They don't know the process. They don't have the sophistication as you all do, so public trust here is an issue. It's reminiscent of the penny sales tax that got beat down several years ago. It was not because the people did not feel that the projects were worthy. It was, rather, that they did not have confidence that what they thought and what they told would be done. Similarly, in this situation, it's -- I think people see the benefit of the expansion that Commissioner Teele has very eloquently and convincingly described, as Commissioner Winton has, what the purpose of the expansion is, and I think everybody here sees those benefits, so that's not the case. It's rather, the public is not confident that their trust will be well placed, so one of the things I'd like to suggest is that some type of practice or system that guarantees public input into CRA activities be instituted. An example would be, or perhaps a recommendation, whichever, is that the CRA would create an advisory group, an advisory group consisting of stakeholders of the CRA areas or sub areas, and that this advisory group would have, by statute, the responsibility to review and make recommendations -- recommendations that would be listened to, and, perhaps, acted upon -- on CRA activities that are related to financing and related to real estate property. Thank you. Chairman Regalado: Thank you, Bernice. Go ahead, sir. Irby McKnight: Good evening. I'm Irby McKnight, Overtown Advisory Board. I am here for the sole purpose of asking you not to expand into Overtown your boundaries of the CRA until you do something with the land you've had since 1982 there. It is still vacant, littered with trash, most of it, and we see nothing. This could only create another layer of bureaucracy to stop our progress that we do have going in the community. There are people wanting to buy properties in Overtown for development, but then when they come down to the City, it is so many meetings and so many levels of bureaucracy they have to go through until they just look somewhere else, i.e., the entertainment district. I called a gentleman that owns 5,000 nightclubs across America --and lives locally -- about being interested in the Overtown community, particularly, its entertainment district. His response to me was, "Let me help you go into business in the Brickell area. It'll be easier to get permits" -- and I mean, he just ran down a whole list of things, and we know that those things that he ran down to us are true in Overtown. We know this; we live there, so we know. We know that whatever it takes to open a nightclub in Park West, you could take an old building, soundproof it, divide it in half, and you have two nightclubs. We have no buildings in the area, at all. All of it has been razed by the CRA, by the way. They tore down everything in the area. It is still blanketed and empty, so until you do something there to win back our confidence, we beg you not to expand this any further. Do not choke us anymore. Thank you. Chairman Regalado: Thank you. Go ahead, ma'am. Lillian Ser: Lillian Ser, with law offices of Shutts & Bowen, located at 201 South Biscayne Boulevard. We represent Flagstone Properties, the developer of the Island Gardens project on Watson Island. I'm here not to object to the inclusion of Watson Island in the CRA, but to bring to your attention a possible side effect of doing so. We have been working diligently with the City and with the DDA to come under the umbrella of the DDA, and be included under the downtown DRI (Development of Regional Impact). We are unclear, at this time. We just recently found out about this, of that -- of the effect it would have if -- because we would be then included under the Southeast Overtown DRI. This would -- if we were included under that DRI, we would become a brand-new DRI, which would add a year to the construction process. The City has been -- and we had been working with the City to try and cut back the time period to be able to open up in the fall of 2005, and we're just unclear, so we support the motion that is before you to defer this item until we can learn more about the effect of -- that this would have on us. Thank you. Chairman Regalado: Thank you. Mr. Vilarello: Mr. Chairman, I think I can address that issue. Of course, to be included within the DDA's downtown DRI, that would have to -- that would require the expansion of the DDA boundaries to include at least the Flagstone properties, if not all of Watson Island. Both the -- Ms. Ser: That's correct, and we've already done that. Mr. Vilarello: -- Southeast Overtown/Park West CRA and the DDA boundaries can coexist. They can overlap, so that would be appropriate, and at that point, if that -- both expansions took place, the applicant would have the right to apply under either DRI. Ms. Ser: That's correct. Mr. Vilarello: Whichever would be most efficient and would take the least amount of time would be a decision that you could make at that time -- Ms. Ser: Our only point is -- Mr. Vilarello: -- per your client, I should say. Ms. Ser: -- that we would like to be able to talk to the South Florida Regional Planning Council and the DCA (Department of Community Affairs) to see what that effect would be. Commissioner Teele: What was your name? Ms. Ser: Lillian Ser, S -E -R. Chairman Regalado: Thank you. Commissioner Teele: May I inquire. Didn't you all -- ? What law firm are you with? Ms. Ser: Shutts & Bowen. Commissioner Teele: Didn't -- do you have a Judy -- ? Ms. Ser: Burke. Commissioner Teele: Didn't she receive a call from the City Manager on this? Ms. Ser: Not until -- I don't know if it was the City Manager that called last week, but we were just informed last week about this issue. Commissioner Teele: And -- because one of the special counsels called me on this and said that you all were concerned about the statements that the Manager's office had made, that this would take you out of the DDA DRI, and I just want to get to the bottom of that. Ms. Ser: I'm not sure where that's coming from. My only point -- or our only points -- Commissioner Teele: I'm very certain, but I really wish you all would advise me as exactly what the communications were on that because I think -- you know, just as the previous speaker said, you know, there seem to be one set of rules for one side of town and a different set of rules -- and the rules are the same. The DDA and the CRA have coterminous overlapping districts now. In fact, virtually all of the Park West is within the DDA boundaries, is that correct, Mr. Attorney? I know that the old -- the Knight -- the Old Arena is in the DDA and it's in the CRA, and it uses the CRA DRI. I mean, so -- Mr. Vilarello: And I believe it expands into the Omni/CRA as well. Commissioner Teele: The Omni, -- and so all that I'm saying to you is the information, you know, that you all started calling around and discussing was so misinformed, because what it does is it gives you the option. It doesn't cut off your options; it gives you more options. In other words, having it in two different boundaries gives you the right to determine which way, not the manner in which it was expressed to you, that it cuts off or -- it terminates your rights to go in the DDA, and I just want to be very clear on the record that that has never been an issue. Ms. Ser: And that is not what I was trying to say to you, sir, or to the Commission; only that we would like to have some time to study the effects -- Commissioner Teele: And I re -- Ms. Ser: -- on the construction of the project. Commissioner Teele: -- respect that. Thank you very much. Chairman Regalado: Thank you. OK. Mr. Vilarello: Mr. Chairman. Chairman Regalado: Yes. Mr. Vilarello: The attorney associated with Shutts & Bowen needs to register as a lobbyist. They're not -- the firm is registered, but you are not. Chairman Regalado: OK. City Clerk -- Tom Marco: Chairman, Commissioners, Mr. Mayor -- Commissioner Teele: Is he registered? Is this guy registered? Mr. Marco: I'm here on behalf of my employer. Commissioners, Tom Marco, with -- Commissioner Teele: You're here on behalf of the public. Mr. Marco: -- Miami -Dade County Office of Management and Budget, at the request of the County Manager. Commissioners, have you received a letter that the County Manager sent to you today? Chairman Regalado: Yes, we have. Mr. Marco: OK. Chairman Regalado: Well, I have. Commissioner Teele: I read it into the record. Mr. Marco: Oh, you did. OK. Commissioner Teele: Yeah. Tom, I indicated before we started that we had received a letter from the Manager, and that that letter clearly indi -- expressed your intent of wanting approval. I said, for the record, that it has always been our intent to seek your advice on the matter. I do want to correct one thing, though. The Manager received a registered letter, dated June 6, and it was signed for in the Manager's office on June 9, but the Manager's letter dated today -- and I just want to correct this. We were recently surprised when we became aware of your intentions, only through an advertised -- public advertisement in the Miami Herald, wherein the readers were -- you know, and I just -- I would hope that the Manager would be informed that someone in his office received a letter -- in fact, received two different letters on that, and he really should not have been surprised, and I don't know if that means anything, but it's certainly not our intent to surprise you or the Manager. Mr. Marco: OK. The item before you today makes no mention of Miami -Dade County in bringing the item to Miami -Dade County, and Commissioner Teele, that's why I think we're a little concerned whether or not what we consider to be the due process on this item would bring it forth to the County Commission for approval for any plan modification or boundaries expansion. Commissioner Teele: If I may, Mr. Chairman. It would be my intent to author a resolution seeking the advice of the County prior to any final actions being taken, but as you are aware, Tom, this whole action is triggered, as you know, by your office nine months ago instructing the CRA to go out and update its plan pursuant to Chapter 163. This element today is not the plan, as you are well aware. This only defines a study area for the plan, so I think, on one hand, you've instructed us to do what we're doing, and I think that's an agreement that Dr. Morris and Ms. Lewis and everyone agreed that we would go out and update the plan, and I think the County's request was correct, and this is merely one step in that process. As you are aware, there is a very clear legal issue, a technical issue related to July 1 as the sum of the -- formalities and necessities, but the question is to seeking the County's advice has never been raised until we got the letter from the Manager, and I will assure you that it would be my intent to seek your advice on this. Mr. Marco: Well, I am concerned. We had a recent conversation, you and I, Commissioner, along with the City Manager and the City Attorney, wherein you indicated there was a window of opportunity by July 1, I believe you were saying, to unilaterally act, and all that the County is asking and requesting is that the City not unilaterally act on the plan modification, and that the due process be followed, and that the -- any City action come to the County as well. Commissioner Teele: And it would be my -- certainly my intent to forward any final action taken by the City to the County for their advice. Mr. Marco: OK, and I just -- on the record, I want to make sure that it's noted that the County Manager is indicating that unless approved by the Board of County Commissioners, the County will not consider any change in the boundaries to be effective. Vice Chairman Winton: Well, so much for his record. Chairman Regalado: OK. Do we have a motion to act unilaterally? Commissioner Teele: Mr. Chairman, I would move that the -- with the exception -- Mr. Vilarello: Have you closed the public hearing? Chairman Regalado: Yes. Anybody else? The public hearing is closed. It's -- oh, we don't have a motion. Commissioner Sanchez: There is -- Commissioner Teele: There is a motion -- Commissioner Sanchez: -- a motion to -- Commissioner Teele: -- on the floor to de -annex A-3 and A-4, which I made and Commissioner -- Commissioner Sanchez: Second. Commissioner Teele: -- Sanchez second. Chairman Regalado: Oh, OK, OK. I'm sorry. Commissioner Teele: Call the question. Chairman Regalado: OK, so we do have a motion. All in favor, say "aye." Vice Chairman Winton: No. Chairman Regalado: It passes. The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Teele, who moved for its adoption: MOTION NO. 02-719 A MOTION TO DELETE AREAS MARKED AS "A-3 AND A-4" FROM THE MAP IDENTIFYING PROPOSED EXTENSION OF BOUNDARIES OF THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREA. Upon being seconded by Commissioner Sanchez, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Chairman Tomas Regalado Commissioner Angel Gonzalez Commissioner Joe Sanchez Commissioner Arthur E. Teele, Jr. NAYS: Vice Chairman Johnny L. Winton ABSENT: None Commissioner Teele: Mr. Chairman, I would move approval of the remainder of the recommendations for the boundary study options. Chairman Regalado: OK. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Vice Chairman Winton: Second. Commissioner Teele: The motion really should be to approve the ordinance, as amended, I would assume, Mr. Attorney? Mr. Vilarello: Yes. However -- Commissioner Sanchez: Yeah, that in -- Mr. Vilarello: -- you need to identify -- Commissioner Sanchez: Yeah, that includes what? Mr. Vilarello: -- for the Commission -- Commissioner Sanchez: "C" and "B" Chairman Regalado: "A." Commissioner Sanchez: -- and all "A"? Mr. Vilarello: There's a portion here that overlaps with the Omni/CRA, and you need to address that. Unidentified Speaker: Yes. You have map 3, which is the one that I'm asking (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to put up now -- Chairman Regalado: OK. Unidentified Speaker: --and -- Chairman Regalado: No, no. That's -- he just -- we just took -- Commissioner Teele: A-3 and 4 out. Chairman Regalado: -- A-3 and 4, so -- Unidentified Speaker: Yes. This -- Chairman Regalado: -- explain -- Unidentified Speaker: -- map 3, minus A-3 and A-4 Commissioner Teele: Why don't we get the ordinance, and then let him explain it and --? Chairman Regalado: OK. We need a second. Well, we have a second. Read the ordinance, Mr. City Attorney. An Ordinance Entitled - AN ORDINANCE OF THE MIAMI CITY COMMISSION, WITH ATTACHMENT (S), AMENDING AND MODIFYING THE SOUTHEAST OVERTOWN/PARK WEST COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT PLAN TO EXTEND THE BOUNDARIES OF THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREA AS DESCRIBED IN "EXHIBIT A" AND INCORPORATED HEREIN; AMENDING CHAPTER 14, ARTICLE V, DIVISION 1, OF THE CODE OF THE CITY OF MIAMI, FLORIDA, AS AMENDED, ENTITLED "DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT, SOUTHEAST OVERTOWN/PARK WEST REDEVELOPMENT DISTRICT AND COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY, GENERALLY", TO REFLECT THE AMENDMENT AND MODIFICATION OF THE SOUTHEAST OVERTOWN/PARK WEST COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT PLAN, MORE PARTICULARLY BY AMENDING SECTION 14-252 OF SAID CODE; CONTAINING A REPEALER PROVISION AND A SEVERABILITY CLAUSE; AND PROVIDING FOR AN IMMEDIATE EFFECTIVE DATE. was passed on its first reading, by title, at the meeting of June 13, 2002, was taken up for its second and final reading, by title and adoption. On motion of Commissioner Teele, seconded by Vice Chairman Winton, the ordinance was thereupon given its second and final reading by title, and was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Chairman Tomas Regalado Vice Chairman Johnny L. Winton Commissioner Angel Gonzalez Commissioner Joe Sanchez Commissioner Arthur E. Teele, Jr. NAYS: None. ABSENT: None. SAID ORDINANCE WAS DESIGNATED ORDINANCE NO. 12241 The ordinance was read by title into the public record by the City Attorney. Chairman Regalado: OK, before the vote, let's make sure that the members of the Commission, Guillermo, knows exactly what we're voting on, the boundaries, the new boundaries. Unidentified Speaker: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Area A-1 is the area of the plan will go through I-395 at 14th Street and the railroad track. Area A-2 is a triangle defined by I-95, 10th -- Northwest 10th and 5th Avenue -- Northwest 5th Avenue. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 10th Street -- on the north, it's defined by I-95, so it's a triangle. The south is 10th Street and the west is 5th Avenue. Then area B is between 10th Street, Northwest 10th Street to 6th Street, northwest, from 5th Avenue to I-95. Then area C is from 6th Street north to north of 11th Street from 5th to 7th Avenue. Commissioner Sanchez: On "C," how much does "C" deplete the City revenue, just on "C" alone, the numbers? Yes, how much does it contribute to the City right now? Unidentified Speaker: I don't have a figure. I included the list of properties that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- Commissioner Sanchez: Yeah, but on your thing that I have here -- Vice Chairman Winton: That doesn't go away. That doesn't go away; it stays with the City. Commissioner Sanchez: What? Vice Chairman Winton: Whatever the base is today stays with the City. It's only the growth and the base that goes to the CRA. Commissioner Sanchez: Increment? Vice Chairman Winton: Yeah, it's the incremental growth only, not the current base. Commissioner Sanchez: Why is that? Vice Chairman Winton: I don't know. Commissioner Sanchez: How much is that, the increment? Unidentified Speaker: You're asking for area C? Commissioner Sanchez: "C ... "C" and "B," but just separate; "C" first and then `B." Unidentified Speaker: Using scenario "D," area "C," in total for the 35 -year would be approx -- Chairman Regalado: Excuse me, excuse me. He just -- Commissioner Sanchez: Yeah, he's right, he's right. Chairman Regalado: Commissioner Teele said that in 20 years, there will be no CRA. Commissioner Sanchez: Yeah, 20 years. Just use 20 years, so basically, just on a per year, without growth. Unidentified Speaker: On a per year, it varies from about $4,000 up until year 2022 to about 58,000. Commissioner Sanchez: All right, and "B?" Unidentified Speaker: Area "B" -- Vice Chairman Winton: Let me see if I understand that. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. The increment, you said, it ranges from 4,000 to 58,000 per year. Unidentified Speaker: Yes. Commissioner Sanchez: Yeah. Vice Chairman Winton: So, 4,000 to a maximum to 58,000 per year? Unidentified Speaker: Correct. Vice Chairman Winton: Well, I'm broke now, buddy. Unidentified Speaker: You had another area? Commissioner Sanchez: OK. Now, "B"? Unidentified Speaker: Area B ranges from about $5,000 to about $80,000 for the same time period. Commissioner Sanchez: Twenty years? Unidentified Speaker: Correct. Commissioner Sanchez: No, no, no. That's per year -- that's -- Unidentified Speaker: Per year. Commissioner Sanchez: How about 20 years? Unidentified Speaker: Well, it gets up to -- I don't have the communicative figure. Commissioner Teele: But you know, I just want to put something in the record. No good deed goes unpunished. The first bullet point: They haven't requires the CRA's help -- last point, don't expand the boundary, bullet point. BAME requires the CRA's help in securing permits for New Hope, 40 units. The 40 units are outside of the boundary; they're in `B." Now, the only thing that's going to happen, just so that everybody understands what the economics is, is whatever happens in the club districts is the money's going to get channeled over here in "B" and "C," you know that. At $5,000 a year, you know -- Vice Chairman Winton: And with the pick and grab going on, you know, you're not so sure we need to -- we want to be expanding. Commissioner Teele: Well -- I mean, you know, that's -- at the point I'm at now, I mean, I'd tell you what I'd like to do, I'd like to defer this right where we are until Thursday because I want to read some of this stuff because -- Vice Chairman Winton: Second the motion. Commissioner Teele: -- you know, you can't have it both ways. You just can't have it both ways. Vice Chairman Winton: Second the motion. Chairman Regalado: Mr. City Attorney, we have a motion to defer and -- Commissioner Teele: Until Thursday. Chairman Regalado: -- until Thursday, and -- Commissioner Teele: Thursday, 5 o'clock. Chairman Regalado: -- it's a second. All in favor, say "aye." The Commission (Collectively): Aye. The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Teele, who moved for its adoption: MOTION NO. 02-720 A MOTION TO DEFER CONSIDERATION OF PROPOSED ORDINANCE ON SECOND READING TO EXTEND THE BOUNDARIES OF THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREA TO THE COMMISSION MEETING OF JUNE 27, 2002. Upon being seconded by Vice Chairman Winton, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Chairman Tomas Regalado Vice Chairman Johnny L. Winton Commissioner Angel Gonzalez Commissioner Joe Sanchez Commissioner Arthur E. Teele, Jr. NAYS: None. ABSENT: None Commissioner Teele: Move that the -- oh. Chairman Regalado: We have a CRA meeting, Commissioner. What do you want to do? Commissioner Teele: Move that the item be -- the agenda be deferred until Thursday. We've got the -- Commissioner Gonzalez, would you move that the CRA agenda be deferred until Thursday, at 5 p.m.? Commissioner Gonzalez: So move. Chairman Regalado: OK. Commissioner Teele: Second. Chairman Regalado: CRA meeting has been deferred or continued -- it will be continued on Thursday at 5 p.m. The following motion was introduced by Commissioner Gonzalez, who moved for its adoption: MOTION NO. 02-721 A MOTION TO DEFER CONSIDERATION OF THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY (CRA) MEETING PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED FOR TODAY AT 5 P.M. TO JUNE 27, 2002 AT 5 P.M. Upon being seconded by Commissioner Teele, the motion was passed and adopted by the following vote: AYES: Chairman Tomas Regalado Vice Chairman Johnny L. Winton Commissioner Angel Gonzalez Commissioner Joe Sanchez Commissioner Arthur E. Teele, Jr. NAYS: None. ABSENT: None Mr. Vilarello: And the special meeting concerning the boundary expansion be recessed until Thursday, as well. Commissioner Teele: Thursday, as well, yes. Chairman Regalado: Thursday, no time certain. Commissioner Teele: Thursday, after 5 p.m. Chairman Regalado: After 5 p.m., we will do this. All in favor, say "aye." The Commission (Collectively): Aye. THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO COME BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION, THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 7:44 P.M. MANUEL A. DIAZ MAYOR Attest: Priscilla A. Thompson CITY CLERK (S E A L)