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Meeting Minutes
Thursday, January 23, 2020
9:00 AM
Planning and Zoning
Supplemental Agenda
City Hall
City Commission
Francis X. Suarez, Mayor
Keon Hardemon, Chair, District Five
Ken Russell, Vice Chair, District Two
Alex Diaz de la Portilla, Commissioner, District One
Joe Carollo, Commissioner, District Three
Manolo Reyes, Commissioner, District Four Emilio
T. Gonzalez, City Manager
Victoria Mendez, City Attorney
Todd B. Hannon, City Clerk
City Commission Supplemental Meeting Minutes January 23, 2020
Present: Chair Hardemon, Vice Chair Russell, Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla,
Commissioner Carollo and Commissioner Reyes.
On the 23rd day of January 2020, the City Commission of the City of Miami, Florida,
met at its regular meeting place in City Hall, 3500 Pan American Drive, Miami,
Florida, in regular session. The Commission Meeting was called to order by Chair
Hardemon at 9: 02 a.m., recessed at 12:16 p. m., reconvened at 2: 33 p. m., recessed at
6: 04 p. m., reconvened at 6: 35 p. m. and adjourned at 10:10 p. m.
Note for the Record. Commissioner Reyes entered the Commission chambers at 9:08
a.m., Commissioner Carollo entered the Commission chambers at 9:11 a.m.,
Commissioner Russell entered the Commission chambers at 9:12 a.m., and
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla entered the Commission chambers at 9:21 a.m.
ALSO PRESENT.•
Joseph Napoli, Deputy City Manager
Victoria Mendez, City Attorney
Todd R Hannon, City Clerk
PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD FOR SUPPLEMENTAL ITEM(S)
SUPPLEMENTAL ITEMS
SIA DISCUSSION ITEM
7063 A DISCUSSION ITEM REGARDING KEYS TO THE CITY AND CITY
Commissioners PROCLAMATIONS.
and Mayor
MOTION TO:
Defer
RESULT:
DEFERRED
MOVER:
Ken Russell, Commissioner
SECONDER:
Joe Carollo, Commissioner
AYES:
Hardemon, Russell, Diaz de la Portilla, Carollo, Reyes
Note for the Record. Item SL1 was deferred to the February 13, 2020, City
Commission Meeting.
Commissioner Carollo: Chairman, I have some other items in the agenda, but
frankly, if I got to wait on the others for the next meeting, they could be held over;
that's fine. There is a pocket item that is very time sensitive that I do want to bring up.
Chair Hardemon.- Are you describing ST 1, ST 2, SI3, and --
Commissioner Carollo: Whatever is there, just -- you know -- we could roll over to
the next meeting if need be, unless this Commission wants to stay longer.
Chair Hardemon.- Yes, we could.
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S1.2
7065
Commissioners
and Mayor
SI.3
7084
Commissioners
and Mayor
Commissioner Carollo: I'm not going to press you, but this resolution will do --
Vice Chair Russell: Second the motion.
Chair Mardemon: Without objection, I'll -- the Chair will defer Item S1.1 through
SI 4.
Commissioner Carollo: Okay, SL 1 through S1.4. There's a second.
Chair Mardemon: Seeing no objection, all in favor say "aye "
The Commission (Collectively): Aye.
Chair Mardemon: The motion passes.
Commissioner Carollo: Okay.
DISCUSSION ITEM
A DISCUSSION REGARDING KEY TO THE CITY.
......... ......... .........
MOTION TO:
......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... .................
Defer
RESULT:
DEFERRED
MOVER:
Ken Russell, Commissioner
SECONDER:
Joe Carollo, Commissioner
AYES:
Hardemon, Russell, Diaz de la Portilla, Carollo, Reyes
Note for the Record. Item SL 2 was deferred to the February 13, 2020, City
Commission Meeting.
For minutes referencing Item SL2, please see Item SLl.
DISCUSSION ITEM
A DISCUSSION REGARDING THE DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT
AUTHORITY.
......... ......... .........
MOTION TO:
......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... .................
Defer
RESULT:
DEFERRED
MOVER:
Ken Russell, Commissioner
SECONDER:
Joe Carollo, Commissioner
AYES:
Hardemon, Russell, Diaz de la Portilla, Carollo, Reyes
Note for the Record. Item SL 3 was deferred to the February 13, 2020, City
Commission Meeting.
For minutes referencing Item SL2, please see Item SLl.
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SIA DISCUSSION ITEM
7091 A DISCUSSION REGARDING THE CONSOLIDATION OF THE
Commissioners COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCIES.
and Mayor
MOTION TO:
Defer
RESULT:
DEFERRED
MOVER:
Ken Russell, Commissioner
SECONDER:
Joe Carollo, Commissioner
AYES:
Hardemon, Russell, Diaz de la Portilla, Carollo, Reyes
Note for the Record. Item SL 4 was deferred to the Februaty 13, 2020, City
Commission Meeting.
For minutes referencing Item SL4, please see Item SLl and "Public Comment
Period for Regular Item(s)" on the regular agenda.
S1.5 RESOLUTION
7102 A RESOLUTION OF THE MIAMI CITY COMMISSION APPOINTING
Office of the City MEMBERS OF THE MIAMI CITY COMMISSION AS VICE -
Clerk CHAIRPERSONS AND/OR MEMBERS ON VARIOUS TRUSTS,
AUTHORITIES, BOARDS, COMMITTEES AND AGENCIES FOR
TERMS AS DESIGNATED HEREIN.
APPOINTED AS VICE CHAIRPERSON:
COMMISSIONER CAROLLO OF THE OMNI COMMUNITY
REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
COMMISSIONER DIAZ DE LA PORTILLA OF THE SOUTHEAST
OVERTOWN/PARK WEST COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
APPOINTED AS MEMBER:
COMMISSIONER DIAZ DE LA PORTILLA OF THE GREATER MIAMI
CONVENTION AND VISITORS BUREAU
COMMISSIONER DIAZ DE LA PORTILLA OF THE MIAMI-DADE
COUNTY TOURIST DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL
ENACTMENT NUMBER: R-20-0025
MOTION TO:
Adopt
RESULT:
ADOPTED
MOVER:
Alex Diaz de la Portilla, Commissioner
SECONDER:
Manolo Reyes, Commissioner
AYES:
Diaz de la Portilla, Carollo, Reyes
NAYS:
Hardemon, Russell
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Chair Hardemon: What I would like for this board to do is for -- because we're moving
now to our Planning and Zoning agenda. I ask for a 1 S-minute recess. Is that fair? All
right. Let's recess for 15 minutes.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Before we do that, Mr. Chair, can we take up SI S?
I'd like to appoint Commissioner Reyes to the Omni Community Redevelopment Agency
to help me work through some of the problems we have there. And I'd like to appoint
myself, if you're okay with this, Mr. Chair, as Vice Chair of the Southeast
Overtown/Park West Community Redevelopment Agency; and appoint myself to the
Miami -Dade County Tourist Development Council. I haven't made any other
appointments. I don't know what you guys want, but that's what --
Chair Hardemon: Can we have the 1 S-minute recess? We'll get back to this. I want to
take some discussion on it.
Commissioner Carollo: I don't want anything.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I would take discussion.
Commissioner Carollo: And you know what I'm getting --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: There's a motion and there's --
Chair Hardemon: Because we have a part, once that it's been moved and seconded,
that we go into discussion.
Commissioner Carollo: Can --?
Chair Hardemon: And what I'm asking is that we -- oh, you -- I want to relieve myself
to the restroom. We'll come back out in 15 minutes --
Commissioner Reyes: We'll come back.
Chair Hardemon: -- and we can talk about it as much as you want.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Okay. Fair.
Chair Hardemon: Thank you.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Thank you.
Vice Chair Russell: Fine.
Chair Hardemon: 1 S-minute recess.
(Brief recess)
Chair Hardemon: I'm going to call this January 23, 2020 meeting back into order.
Acknowledging where we started off of, there was a motion made by Commissioner Diaz
de la Portilla to name himself as the Vice Chairman of Southeast Overtown/Park West
CRA (Community Redevelopment Agency); to name Commissioner Reyes as the Vice
Chairman of the Omni CRA; and to name himself as -- Diaz de la Portilla, as the
representative on the TDC (Tourist Development Council). That was the motion. So ifI
may, I just want to have a --just a brief convey -- well, I want to talk about the way that
the motion is set up. Was there -- and was there a second to the motion? I just want to
acknowledge that. So Commissioner Reyes will acknowledge it as the second. So in
discussion, it's kind of -- it's like a multi -story discussion. There's three things about
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each of these, and then there are things that --for instance, I'm willing to -- I'll say this:
Obviously, at our last meeting regarding the Omni CRA, Commissioner Russell was
removed as the Chairman. Commissioner Russell was --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: He wasn't reappointed. He wasn't removed.
Chair Hardemon: He is no longer there; someone else was appointed. So
Commissioner Russell had been attending the Omni CRA meetings diligently. And so, in
regards to the Omni CRA, I would have thought that Commissioner Russell would have
been a good choice for Vice Chairman. However, you are the Chairman of that
organization, and I think that it is not inappropriate for a Chairman to decide who his
Vice Chairman should be, so I will give deference to that.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Thank you.
Chair Hardemon: But with that same thought in mind, you named yourself in your
motion as the Vice Chairman of the Southeast Overtown/Park West, of which I'm the
Chairman of, and what I would request in regard to the motion is that I be able to have
the same deference, in naming my Vice Chairman, as you would with the Omni CRA.
And so, what I would ask is for Commissioner Reyes instead would be to name -- or in
addition be named as the Vice Chairman of the Southeast Overtown/Park West CRA; so
not necessarily striking yours in the Omni, but adding him as the Vice Chairman of my
CRA; reason being is that the Southeast Overtown/Park West CRA has had really a
renaissance over the time that I've been the Chairman. We've accomplished a great
many of things that I think are extremely noteworthy. And Commissioner --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Russell.
Chair Hardemon: -- Russell has been extremely supportive of the Southeast
Overtown/Park West CRA, and I know he'll continue to show up and be supportive, as
well. But particularly, when it comes to Commissioner Reyes, he has a long history with
that CRA in regard to when he used to workfor the City ofMiami. He has a long
history of supporting it while he has been an elected official, and he's been participatory
in lots of things involving that CRA, from the events that we have, such as the music
festival, which highlights all the construction and things that are happening in the CRA
to tree -lighting ceremonies and toy giveaways, et cetera. I think he has been a
prominent face there. And in the same spirit, I'd like to name my -- I would like to be
able to recommend who my Vice Chairman would be, and I would consider Reyes as
that person. In regards to the TDC, I've been serving as the appointee to the TDC for a
great number of years. The TDC, for those who are not aware -- because as board
members, if you're not apart of those boards, you probably don't know exactly what
they do. That's the Tourist Development Council. The Tourist Development Council is
a board that is chaired by an appointee from the County, so our County Commissioner,
and then they have other representatives from either cities or other organizations within
Miami -Dade County. The Tourist Development Council is a body that --so that we're
all clear -- has dollars that are appropriated from tourism -related activity in Miami -
Dade County, and those dollars are assigned to that body. That body meets usually
about four times a year, and in those four times a year, you're deciding in each quarter
dollars that should be appropriated to organizations that are coming before the board
that are trying to attract tourism to Miami -Dade County. My attendance to the Tourist
Development Council has been stellar, especially considering the past history of our
appointees from the City of Miami. Every board that I've ever been appointed to in the
City of Miami, I've always been diligent about my attendance to, and the TDC is just one
of those things. The only thing about the TDC is that it lacks representative -- it lacks
representation, really, from people of color. They have lots of individuals who are
white, lots of individuals who are -- well, Spanish. And the only African Americans that
are there is a gentleman that works through the airport, who's been therefor many,
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many, many, many years. He's somewhat of an employee, so he's a fixture in Miami -
Dade County; and then myself, as the only elected official there. And so, that's the only
-- you know -- down side I see to the TDC. But I will say that, of course, my term is
coming to an end, and the TDC is an organization that in the time that I m still here in
the City of Miami, there won't be that many meetings, so I'm comfortable with
relinquishing that. What I ask of whomever becomes the new appointee -- and here in
your motion, it would be you, Mr. Diaz de la Portilla -- is that you continue to do what
we've done in the City of Miami through our representation, which is ensuring that
small organizations, especially organizations that are doing cultural events that
typically in the TDC don't get much attention, have that attention and get the resources
that they need. And so, all three of these boards obviously have a role in appropriating
dollars. This is not just about representation. This is not just about being -- you know -
- present in the names of Chairman or Vice Chairman of an organization. They have
significant effects upon not only the organizations itself, but the individuals that come to
the organizations looking for some sort of relief or assistance. And so, for clarity, what
I would request is that the Southeast Overtown/Park West Vice Chairman would be
Commissioner Reyes, and that would be my amendment to your motion that's being
considered.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: And thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I will
respectfully decline your amendment, and let me give you a little bit of the reasoning
behind it With both the Omni Community Redevelopment Agency and the Southeast
Overtown/Park West Community Redevelopment Agency, I'm looking to down the line
consolidate these agencies, as it once was. I'm looking for reform in them, and I think
it's important for me to be part of that Overtown/Park West Community Redevelopment
Agency to see what works, what doesn't work, and sort of -- kind of streamline the
measures that we use in the organization so that we work together with the Omni and
the Southeast Overtown/Park West, and sort of create, as we base this baby that we're
working -- that I'm working on to redevelop and reorganize, and perhaps consolidate
these organizations, I want to be a part of this organization that you requested. So it's
not so much deference from the Chairman to the Vice Chairman; it's rather new blood,
that we're injecting new blood into these agencies, and new ideas, and I think the
Commissioner should be part of that; not only a handful of Commissioners; that's why I
picked and I want as my Vice Chair Commissioner Reyes in the Omni Community
Redevelopment Agency. I think he could be very helpful to me there, and I want to serve
on yours so that the three of us can work together to -- you're leaving in a few months,
and as we move forward, I think it's important that we streamline these organizations.
So I have a discussion item today that I m going to defer for a later conversation to
consolidate these two agencies, perhaps expand the community redevelopment of the
Omni Community Redevelopment Agency, expand and extend, of course, the time,
expand its boundaries, so I have some ideas, some good ideas, I think, that are well
thought out; not completely thought out yet; that's why I want to do the due diligence
and get it right. But I would like the makeup of those organizations to reflect what my
motion said. Now as far as the Miami -Dade County Tourist Development Council --
Chair Hardemon: I'm not concerned about Tourist Development Council.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Well, then, we'll (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on that.
Chair Hardemon: What I'm more concerned about is Southeast Overtown/Park West
CRA.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I know you are, and --
Chair Hardemon: And I will tell you this: If you're talking about reform, the gentleman
sitting to your left brought more reform to our CRAs than any other person that's come
before, except --
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Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: But he's not -- we're not debating hint.
Chair Hardemon: He's --no, I'm not.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: He was there two years.
Chair Hardemon: I'm talking about reform.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: We're talking about new blood; we're not talking
about reform.
Chair Hardemon: And so, the next thing is, in regards to the Southeast Overtown/Park
West CRA, that CRA in the past, long before me, has had significant difficulties, and
under myself as Chairman, has had a period of-- The first time, really, that the
community has gathered -- garnered around the Southeast Overtown/Park West CRA
and been supportive of its initiatives, because of all the support that that board has
given to the people who live in that community, I'll be honest with you, when you name
yourself as the Omni Chairman, you want to be the Vice Chairman of the Southeast
Overtown/Park West CRA, your initiative and your discussion about consolidating the
CRAs and reform that we have not seen, no idea that you've brought forth that we've all
considered, that -- you know, to pass on to the leadership to consider to say whether
these make sense or whether or not we'll be agreeable to it. The Southeast
Overtown/Park West CRA is a very special CRA to the City of Miami and its black
community. Unlike the Omni CRA, the Southeast Overtown/Park West CRA is -- the
spirit of it is really stained with the State of Florida, Miami -Dade County, and the City
of Miami doing ills upon that community simply because it was a community of color.
And you may disagree, but I am (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that what this sounds like is an
attempt to remove the current leadership, which is myself, a person of color who
represents that area, who's there almost every single day, from the leadership of the
Southeast Overtown/Park West CRA, because, yes, I am the Chairman today, which I
was named at one of our previous meetings, but after consolidation, it is clear from the
movement, from the way that these chairmanships and vice chairmanships are being
named that the district representative of that area, the sole person of color on this body
to represent the resurgence of a community of color will be removed from chairmanship
of that organization, and replaced. And I'm just warning, I want all of -- because I don't
want this to be a stain that we have to deal with -- that there is going to be extreme
backlash from that community. And Commissioner Carollo, I see you lit up your
microphone --
Commissioner Carollo: Yes, I have.
Chair Hardemon: -- because you're will -- you're always willing to address these issues
Of color --
Commissioner Carollo: Yes.
Chair Hardemon: -- because you've been around for a very long time.
Commissioner Carollo: I have.
Chair Hardemon: But what I'm saying --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I want to address these issues of color, also.
Chair Hardemon: --but I'm just -- I'm giving my colleagues just the foresight that this
is not something that we should take lightly, and the same respect that someone would
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give you in selecting your vice chairmanship, I want it to reflect in this record that
you're not willing to give, because you shook your head in agreeance when I made that
statement, but you're not willing to give --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I never shook my head, because that's not a reason
why --
Chair Hardemon: I watched you shake your head.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: No, I did not.
Chair Hardemon: Maybe I should have said it on the record at the time --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: No, I did not, Chairman.
Chair Hardemon: -- you were doing it. But I acknowledge --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: It's not a question of color. That's why people --
Chair Hardemon: --but I will acknowledge the fact that you're not giving me that same
respect. Commissioner Carollo --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: That's not what's happening. That's not what's
happening.
Chair Hardemon: -- then Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: And you know it's not what's happening.
Commissioner Carollo: Commissioner Hardemon --
Chair Hardemon: That's my name.
Commissioner Carollo: -- I am so surprised that after this Commission voted for you to
retain the chairmanship to Southeast Overtown CRA that you would speak in the fashion
that you have now. You will be resigning some point this year. We probably won't
know until May 16 that, by law, is when you have to resign to run for Miami -Dade
County, and then you have to give a date when that resignation would be. We could go
into everything else, but there's no need to, because you and I both know the different
options that you have. If anything, you would want others to be there and to be, for the
lack of using a better word, to be learning what has happened there, what you have
done there, to work together with you in the months that you'll have left before you move
on, either to be County Commissioner or to private practice, one or the other. But I --
just like you're giving suggestions and recommendations, I would also give you one to
please don't use the race card in this, because this has nothing to do with race, and you
know that well. You've been cut as Chairman there. I will tell you this, because I wasn't
aware of this except -- or before he became a Commissioner. I didn't know that until
then that he had an excellent relationship for years with your uncle and aunt. You
know, how --
Chair Hardemon: How many uncles and aunts?
Commissioner Carollo: -- can you try to turn this now into this kind of issue? This is
wrong. This is wrong, and --
Chair Hardemon: I -- what I m saying to you, Commissioner, is that others will take it
that way. I don't have a race card to play.
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Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: It's more a race card (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Commissioner Carollo: I will tell you that for many, many, many years, a lot more
years than these two CRAs have been separated, these CRAs were together; they were
one.
Chair Hardemon: And who was the representative of the CRAs? The District S
Representative, but for the times that he was not available.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Well, the -- Mr. Chairman, there will be an
opportunity -- no one's saying that we are going to take -- You are the Chairman of the
CRA. No one's removed you as Chairman of the CRA. We could have, by the way,
because we had the vote to do it, right? It was obvious by the vote that --
Chair Hardemon: How could you know that?
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: -- because of the vote total that we had,
Commissioner. It was a public meeting, and it was obvious that we had the vote to do
some things. So you keep describing this -- I think Commissioner Russell described it
last meeting -- as a 'power grab "; now you're injecting race into it. And you all know
very well none of that is the case. First of all, the Southeast Overtown/Park West
Community Redevelopment Agency's boundaries include a lot of people of color that are
brown; a lot of Central Americans, a lot of Dominicans, a lot of other nationalities and
ethnicities that include other kinds of people that are impoverished and need help. And
I never said and I never made any statement about not including the next African
American Commissioner as part of the leadership team, and perhaps, probably, as the
Chairman of a combined agency that has two heads. The point is that you don't know
what I'm looking at. We haven't had the debate yet, and to inject race when you know
very well it's not about race. And you're correct, Commissioner Carollo. Your uncle
and I have been friends for over 30 years. So it's even more offensive tome that you try
to inject race into this. The fact of the matter is that I want to learn what your agency is
doing, what it's not doing right. I want -- I'm looking to consolidate them down the line.
I want to work with the Omni leadership, the Omni Redevelopment Community Agency's
leadership and see what they're doing wrong and sort of figure out how we can get it
right and do it better for all impoverished communities, including the expansion of the
CRA to include areas of Allapattah and my district that are contiguous; not somewhere
out in West Coconut Grove as someone -- some other Commissioner had proposed, but
contiguous lands that -- people that need help and need -- where the CRAs are really
meant for that need that economic stimulus that CRAs were created for. So that's what
this is about; this is for me to learn by your side, with your experience to teach me how
to -- you know -- how these agencies work and how we can work together moving down
the line to unite, not to divide.
Chair Hardemon: So --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: And your words divide; they don't unite.
Chair Hardemon: -- to be clear, now, black people don't say, "race card, " but I'm using
this in reference because it's what was said. I'm not saying that I am saying that this is
a racial decision. What I am saying is that the community is going to look at it that sort
of -- kind of way, because the community, in groupthink, is going to think what they
believe, and believe what they think, and then they're going to show up how they show
up. That's just -- it is what it is.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I don't think so.
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Chair Hardemon: And so, it's just the community that I was raised in.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I don't think so.
Chair Hardemon: And also, in regard to the -- to learning about what the Southeast
Overtown/Park West CRA does, you know, I think that reading the statute and conning to
a meeting, I think would be the first step towards doing that. And I just believe that I
should be able to indicate, the same way that you indicated to us, who you would --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I indicated, Mr. Chair, to inject new blood --.
Chair Hardemon: -- who you wanted --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: -- into these agencies that obviously need new blood
and new ideas.
Chair Hardemon: -- to be your Vice Chairman of your organization. Commissioner
Reyes is extremely capable. I'm sure -- he may or may not want additional
responsibilities; I don't know. I don't know if he wants this responsibility of being
simply just the Omni CRA Vice Chairman or if he wants more.
Commissioner Carollo: Well, if I could say this: That if we're going to have any
expansion of this discussion, I'd like to invite Chairman Edmundson from the County to
be part of it. I'd like to invite --
Chair Hardemon: Why? She has no say-so.
Commissioner Carollo: -- other people -- she's Chairman of the County. You're going
to tell me she's got no say-so.
Chair Hardemon: Yeah, but what does that have to do with our --
Commissioner Carollo: She's got a vote there that could approve or disapprove any
expansions or anything else in the CRAs.
Chair Hardemon: The bottom line is this --
Commissioner Carollo: I'd like to invite --
Chair Hardemon: -- if you want to speak at a sunshine --
Commissioner Carollo: -- other people from the County.
Chair Hardemon: So speak in the sunshine about it, Commissioner. Let me say that
right now, Chairman Edmundson wants to expand our CRA, the Southeast Overtown
CRA from five to nine. Most likely, most likely I'll be the next County Commissioner in
that district, which means that I could possibly be sitting on the Southeast
Overtown/Park West CRA Board if the way that she wants it to move forward moves
forward, which does something good necessarily for me as an elected official. It gives
me that, right? But I disagree with her so much so that I would sacrifice any of that
perceived type of benefit for self as the next County Commissioner to sit on a board that
I've been serving on for six years to allow you all, these gentlemen that are sitting right
here, to be the people who decide how that board moves forward. Why? Because I
believe that the benefit goes to the community, and any additional people beyond what
sits here, even without me being here; even with me with having the opportunity of being
there in the future, this board right here, who is closest to that community would be in
the best position to make decisions about that community, and any additional bodies to
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that board, no matter who it is -- myself or anyone else -- would cause a hindrance and
a problem for that community to move forward. In fact, I've always thought it to be
peculiar that when you created these CRAs, especially like, say, for instance, the
Southeast Overtown/Park West CRA, the board that -- we sit as a board. We control
how this -- how that CRA moves and what it does. And that CRA has a limited budget,
very, very small, as related to the City of Miami Commission budget. But all of us
should be offended that when we sit as a body, as the Miami City Commission, we have
all the resources that are available to us through our Administration, and the attorneys,
et cetera, and we make decisions as elected officials from our perspective
neighborhoods, from our districts, regarding a billion -dollar budget, and we do it
without any additional people being added to this board. But when it comes to servicing
communities like that of the Overtown CRA that have historically been mistreated and
actually, I think it's now starting to show so much improvement and promise, and the
people, you could see it in their face. Organizations like that as a board, we're being
told by other people, "You need more people to make decisions for this small amount of
money. " And I think that that's something that we should all really consider.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: That's a tangential conversation; that's nothing to
do with what we're talking about today.
Chair Hardemon: No. It's important. I'm trying to give you the context.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I understand that.
Chair Hardemon: The context that I'm trying to give you, because you asked -- you
said, you know, you really want to get to know what's happening with the Southeast
Overtown/Park West CRA. And so, my point to you is that my battle has not only been
in -- with trying to make the community come around to understand what's really
happening, and to agree with us in moving projects forward, and make that place a
better and safer place to live, but it's also been on a County level, trying to ensure that
we in the City of Miami have an opportunity to provide for that neighborhood in ways
that won't be regressive; and on a State level, arguing, really fighting for the right for
those organizations to continue to exist, and not be limited so much so that once it
comes to an end, someone says, "Why did we have a CRA in the first place? Because
they didn't do anything for a place like Overtown. " And so, you know, these issues are
just very, very, very dear to me. And I know, because Commissioner Reyes has
expressed it in many different ways before that it -- those issues are also dear to him,
and that's why I wanted to have him as the Vice Chairman.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: But Commissioner, I have a question.
Chair Hardemon: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Why then do you want Commissioner Reyes to be
your Vice Chairman? What's the difference between Commissioner Reyes and me?
Chair Hardemon: Only because --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I mean, we're both Hispanic.
Chair Hardemon: -- he's expressed it, because he's been at every CRA meeting I've ever
had.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Well, I'm new here. I just got here a month and a
half ago.
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Chair Hardemon: I understand that, but he's -- he was transported by a police officer
and got a standing ovation from that community. They're very much aware of hint. He's
been working in the CRA. I think he understands, you know, just the culture and nature
of it. And in fact, I mean, you are now the Chairman of the Omni CRA. I'm sure that
there is going to be a working relationship between the Omni and the Southeast
Overtown/Park West CRA. And I think having some continuity in vice chairmen is a
good thing, so that -- you know, we can continue to do things, and the community feels
like -- even in my absence -- that a Commissioner they've been working with for a long
time, who was therefrom the very beginning, he's there to help with the transition.
That's what my ask is. And so, that's why I asked for him to be named the vice
chairmanship. I know that you --the thing that I appreciate about you is that the CRAs
are creatures of the State. They were created in that way. And you have great
relationships within the State. I think you are a tremendous asset to the Miami City
Commission, because you have the relationships in places that we're going to be using -
- we have to use in order to kind of -- to get things done; and so, I'm very much aware of
that. And I had some conversation with some friends that you have from way back, and
they would love -- they love to talk about how they know that you and I can do some
positive things together; and so, I know it's there. I don't want you to take this as a --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I don't. And if -- I want to work with you.
Chair Hardemon: -- personal attack. I don't want you to take this personally at all, by
any means.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: And I don't.
Chair Hardemon: I just -- you know, this is something I really, really do care about,
and it is something that -- you know -- when the time comes, it's going to be a lot of due
consideration to everything that's happening. But I really do believe -- you know -- if
you're saying to me that you're interested in these CRAs -- you know -- you haven't
expressed how. The CRAs were created, and they were not popular things, even
amongst them being created. And we know that there's certain -- within the State,
there's certain people that disagree with the CRAs and how they should be used. And
so, in fact, what my point is to you, I don't know anything about you and your
philosophy regarding CRAs. In fact, you could be someone that disagrees with how
CRAs are currently being used, and you want it to be so limited to the point where it
could be a hindrance to that neighborhood. I don't know that. I -- you -- I haven't had a
chance -- you could be more expansive in your views. You could say --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I am.
Chair Hardemon: -- "No, I agree with how this goes and how that goes, and that's
going to have a positive impact on the neighborhoods. "
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Well, that's why I made the motion to name you --
Chair Hardemon: But I don't know.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: -- the Chairman of the CRA.
Chair Hardemon: But that's -- but I knew that -- I know that about Commissioner
Reyes, and that's why, as Chairman, I was asking for you to amend the motion for that.
But I'll leave it alone, because I think I've said enough regarding an opinion. Is there
anyone that'd like to make a comment?
Commissioner Reyes: Yes.
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Chair Hardemon: Commissioner Reyes.
Commissioner Reyes: Yes, and I have to speak up my mind and my conscience very
honestly about this. I -- Commissioner Russell and I, we have had a lot of discussions
about the CRA, as I -- all of you know the first CRA was the Overtown/Park West
Redevelopment Project. I was the economist for that CRA. And the CRAs, in my
opinion, they have a mission. The mission is to eliminate slum and blight, create the
conditions for development, and then sunset; sunset, because the millions of dollars that
they are spend -- I mean that they are taking away from the City coffers, they could very
well be used by other districts that they don't have a CRA. Having said that, I never
knew that we can be co-chairs and all of that. I mean, it's something different. I never
had any idea, because I don't need to be a co-chair to cooperate with the CRA. I don't
need to be a co-chair. I -- and the co-chair; to me, will be just -- I would say somebody
that will take just momentarily the role of the Chair if the Chair is not at the place, or is
impaired and cannot be there. But today, I'm going to be very honest. I think this is --
we should think about this a little bit more. And I hear Commissioner Hardemon. I
know -- and I know his district. I know his people. I spent a lot of years working there,
and I agree with him that perception is everything. I don't want the population there, of
course, to be perceived that we are pushing the only black that is on the Commission,
and pushing him around, trying to take over that CRA. "at I will recommend,
Commissioner Hardemon is going to be out of here in four months, five months.
Commissioner Carollo: Is that true?
Chair Hardemon: You guys are trying to get rid of me so quickly.
Commissioner Carollo: No, no, no, wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute.
Commissioner Reyes: No. You know, listen --
Chair Hardemon: Listen, it depends; it depends on the effective date of my resignation.
Commissioner Reyes: Okay.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: That's true.
Commissioner Reyes: But --
Chair Hardemon: I can serve until November.
Commissioner Reyes: -- I want --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Oh, November.
Commissioner Reyes: -- I strongly recommend that, Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla,
that we start working together and you start getting close to it, and learning. And then
later on, you see, if we see and we analyze if there is -- consolidation, is the right place
to go and all of that, then we take the step. But it doesn't mean -- but to be working and
cooperating with any of the CRA. Me cooperating with you and working with you, or
me working with --
Chair Hardemon: I'm going to beat yours.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Yeah.
Chair Hardemon: I'm coming. I'm showing up.
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Commissioner Reyes: You see --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: And I want you to.
Commissioner Reyes: --we don't need to have a title right now. Now, further along the
line, the time that it is -- it's just like I would love one of you guys to be there at the DDA
(Downtown Development Authority) with me, because I really need -- want everybody,
we --all of us cooperate. And I'm going to ask the City Attorney to advise us on how we
can have add a co-chair; what we have to do at DDA that we have another
Commissioner there that in case that the Chairman is not there, and another
Commissioner that could cooperate. So I sincerely am going to ask that we defer this
for later, and start working with -- we are going to start working together; start working
with Commissioner Keon Hardemon.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Well, Mr. Chairman --
Chair Hardemon: You're recognized.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: -- that we defer -- First of all, I want to clarify
something. Whether it's Commissioner Reyes or Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla as
Vice Chair of the organization, it's not a racial conversation.
Commissioner Reyes: It is not.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: We're both (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(MULTIPLE PARTIES SPEAKING IN UNISON).
Commissioner Carollo: But --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Let me finish, Mr. Commissioner.
Chair Hardemon: Let him finish.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: But if -- it's not a question of titles, either. It's a
question of having the ability to work and learn with you, and what you may not have
done right or you may have done right --
Commissioner Reyes: Right, right.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: -- and I want to sort of grow in that. But I also know
a lot about CRAs. I worked very closely throughout the State with different CRAs, and
we had concerns about them. Going back 15 years, I have concerns about the CRAs.
Chair Hardemon: The best now.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: And, you know, there's legislation in Tallahassee to
abolish them. And I know that Commissioner Reyes has wanted to abolish these
entities; has talked about publicly about abolishing these entities, has not wanted to
extend --
Commissioner Reyes: No, don't abolish them.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: -- has not wanted to extend their lifeline --
Commissioner Reyes: That's right.
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Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: -- their lifetime, whatever. And so, that's the reason
why I made the motion. I want to be in a place where I have my hand in both CRAs, but
if Commissioner Reyes doesn't want the vice chairmanship of the Overtown CRA -- and
I understand -- so I'll amend my motion to put me as -- Do you want the Omni
Overtown -- the Omni CRA as vice chairmanship, Commissioner Reyes?
(INTERRUPTIONINRECORDING)
Commissioner Reyes: As I said, you see, I feel honored. I -- both of you nominated me,
and, I mean, it is -- it's quite an honor.
Commissioner Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Reyes: But --
Commissioner Carollo: I feel discriminated.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Well, you're going to love my next motion,
Commissioner.
Commissioner Carollo: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for two.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: You're going to love my motion. We're getting to
you. We're getting to you.
Commissioner Reyes: What I want -- I mean, I'd be more than glad to work with you,
and, I mean, I don't mean to be a co-chair; but I'd be more than glad to work with you
on it, and --just as I've been working with Commissioner Hardemon. I know that he
preferred that I be the co-chair, because it is because of my commitment since 1983 to
Overtown/Park West Redevelopment. But it was -- I mean, it was the CRA,
Overtown/Park West Redevelopment Program. And I have been there many, many,
many, many --for many years, I've been, on and off, and that's why he picked me, and
not because discriminate against you. It is because we have a relationship working for
the CRA. And what I don't want is at this moment, you see, that any perception takes a
hold. I want -- let's give it time that people understand why we're doing this, and let's
start working together. We don't have --we don't need no titles --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Okay.
Commissioner Reyes: -- to be working together. I'll be bothering you and --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I'm sure you will.
Commissioner Reyes: Oh, yes, I'll be; just as I get on his case, too at Overtown/Park
West Redevelopment.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: So I would like to amend my motion. I want to
amend my motion to name Commissioner -- I know I'm not going to regret this -- but
name Commissioner Carollo to the Omni Community Redevelopment as my Vice Chair.
Commissioner Carollo: Do I still get the 2 million that's been --?
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Well, we can have that conversation.
Commissioner Carollo: He signed in blood. He signed in blood.
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Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I know; that's why I said, "I may regret this, " but I
would like to --
Commissioner Carollo: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: That's the reason why I said it.
Commissioner Carollo: That's fine. Well --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: But that way, I'll keep you close to me and make
sure that we can have a public debate about this, the two million.
Commissioner Carollo: Well, I'm -- I was almost feeling discriminated. I mean, I'm a
Cuban American like these guys. I guess the only difference between them and me is
that I got more than one drop of Sicilian blood, so maybe -- you know -- I started
thinking they didn't like Sicilians.
Chair Hardemon: Someone said you were Sicilian.
Commissioner Reyes: Yes, sir.
Commissioner Carollo: Yeah.
Commissioner Reyes: I second this and I accept the amendment.
Chair Hardemon: Look, first, wait. But the question --so I have a question, and I'll call
on the Vice Chairman.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: But let me finish my motion, if you'd allow me --
Chair Hardemon: Okay; that's all I wanted to know.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: -- please. Yeah, I want to amend the motion to name
Commissioner Joe Carollo as Vice Chairman of the Omni Community Redevelopment
Agency. I name myself as a member of the Miami -Dade County Tourist Development
Council, and that's the amended motion, and not do anything else for now.
Chair Hardemon: I wasn't trying to remove Reyes as Vice Chairman from --
Commissioner Reyes: Don't worry about it.
Chair Hardemon: -- the CRAs.
Commissioner Reyes: No, you don't remove me from anything. And you know me.
Commissioner Carollo: You're not listening.
Commissioner Reyes: I'll be there.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: He didn't accept it.
Commissioner Carollo: I'm scared to accept this. I'm intimidated, you know.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I don't think anything intimidates you,
Commissioner.
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Commissioner Carollo: You know, last meeting, when I made a motion to fire the City
Manager, the Friday after, an elected official -- not here now -- went to a radio station
and he said that all options were on the table; twice, he said it, including recalling me.
And then after this vote last week, I see some guy from Coral Gables; another guy from
your district that used to wear these red shirts and stuff, that --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I think he's in the building today.
Commissioner Carollo: -- they're threatening me to -- you know -- I don't know if from
Coral Gables, from your district -- that somehow, they're going to get rid of me from my
district, and I don't want to get anybody mad at me anymore. I don't want -- you know.
In fact, I'm even willing to -- if the City Attorney says I can -- reconsider that last motion
on the chairmanships -- you know -- if it'll make people happy, because I'm intimidated.
I'm scared.
Chair Hardemon: You're intimidated?
Commissioner Carollo: Yeah, I really am. So, Commissioner, normally, I would have
told you, "no, " because I really have my plate full. But you know what? When I got
those scoundrels that they still don't know anything about me, and they think they're
going to intimidate me with this "F" team that they got that don't even live in the City,
don't live in my district, you know what? I'm accepting it for that reason.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Thank you, Commissioner.
Commissioner Carollo: I don't want it. As I said before, you guys could divvy up all the
other positions, but I'm going to accept it for that reason only.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Thank you, Commissioner.
Commissioner Carollo: And to make sure that Ferre Park, I keep my promise to
Maurice on the 2 million a year.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: We'll discuss it.
Chair Hardemon: Mr. Vice Chairman.
Vice Chair Russell: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At the other meeting, Commissioner
Carollo called you a diplomat. I think that's an understatement. I think you're being
very respectful here for a situation where there's not a lot of respect going around. And
for my part in that, I'll apologize, because I know that the four of us -- the five of us in
these last few months here have not gotten off to a good start. This is not a congenial
body. This is not looking to be a productive body. We need to find a way to work
together. Now, I know there's elbow jousting as people come in and new positions are
found, and I understand that. But I would not discount your statements about race
within a CRA. There's no secret that this city is gerrymandered quite specifically to
ensure representation of underserved communities. And there's a very specific reason
you are there, and there's a very specific reason you're the Chair of that CRA so that
you can implement the vision that you're trying to do. But what we are doing here as
the five is not cooperative to each other, and I would just like to put this out there,
especially to our new colleague, that to build new bridges, you don't need to burn other
ones, because we will need all of each other at some point, and that's not how it's
working out right now. And so, for my part, I don't want to be a part of this candy grab.
The pinata is hit. Everybody's trying to grab. I was looking forward to a lot of
discussions of how we work together on improving Allapattah, which has been
underserved and needs a lot of help. They need -- it needs a lot of your attention, and I
want to be there to help you with that. But I m seeing a lot of attention coming to what
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we have now, and who can run it, and who's going to change the vision, and change the
direction. Reform -- I'm not sure what you think needs reforming in this moment. We're
coming out of a stellar audit that Commissioner Reyes requested, and you're going to
see how well the CRA has turned around, and how well it's run. There's no need for
new blood to change the direction of where we're going. We need to work together to
get there together, but we're not right now. I hope the dust settles, because I look
forward to working with all of you, but I'll tell you the bridges are burning right now.
Chair Hardemon: You're recognized.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Mr. Chairman, if I may? First of all, Commissioner,
not a lot of people agree with the reform that you brought to your CRA. And you used
words like ' pinata" and "candy grab. " The only person that had a political move here
was you, when you involved yourself in my election, and you pumped $150, 000 from
your political committee into my opponent's candidacy.
Vice Chair Russell: As you've been --
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: And then -- Commissioner, I'm not done. I didn't
interrupt you. And then you raised another $120, 000 for my opponent in a major power
grab, unprecedented in the history of the City of Miami. When one Commissioner from
one district invests heavily over --
Vice Chair Russell: So this is personal.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: No, it's not.
Vice Chair Russell: Wow.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I'm -- well, you're making it personal by talking
about power grabs, and pinatas, and candy grabs, and all kinds of things. The only
person that burned a bridge here, and the only person that had candy grab, that wanted
to control --you wanted to control two districts in the City of Miami, eliminate a Cuban
American from the City Commission --you well know that you did it. You did it very
proactively, and it was unprecedented in the history of City of Miami politics. If you
don't like the fact that elections have consequences, then you shouldn't be in politics, sir;
shouldn't be in politics. Elections have consequences. What's happening here is it is a
new day in the City of Miami Commission with new ideas, and people don't want --
including Commissioner Reyes, by the way, that was elected in 2017; including
Commissioner Carollo, who was elected in 2017. The voters of the City of Miami have
elected new Commissioners. There's a majority of this Commission for certain issues.
You don't like the results. It's a democracy; it's the way it works. But the only person
that's been burning bridges here -- I held my tongue on purpose -- the only person that
months ago started burning bridges here was you, when you involved yourself in a
different district, trying to determine the outcome, and trying to grab for yourself two
votes out of five votes in the City Commission. And those are the facts, and you can't
deny them. Thank you.
Vice Chair Russell: Mr. Chairman.
Chair Hardemon: Mr. Vice Chairman.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: No, it's not a back and forth.
Vice Chair Russell: Thank you. And I appreciate this discussion. Honestly, this -- if it
needs to be said, it needs to be said. And I certainly don't regret supporting someone
that I believed in, and I wanted to do it in a transparent way. It is not unprecedented in
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any way for Commissioners to be involved in other races, supporting people. Normally,
it's done pretty quietly; transfer PAC (Political Action Committee) to PAC to PAC, and
you don't know where it goes, and nobody sees it. I wanted to support someone who I
worked with in the past, who I believed in. It wasn't a statement against you. And when
he lost, I came to you to make amends and hope to have a good working relationship,
understanding we're going to have a rocky start because of that. I understand that and I
know that. Tm just looking to get past that, because we got work to do, and we need to
work together for your district, for my district, for the whole City. We are on the
precipice of greatness, and we can squander it all if the five of us continue to fight.
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: Yeah, but the "holier than thou" attitude that you've
had, that this is a power grab and candy grab, that's what really irritating about you,
Commissioner; this "holier than thou" attitude that you -- that I m burning bridges. I
am a person who's spent 16 years in Tallahassee building a lot of bridges. I bring a lot
of experience; a lot of experience and knowledge to this Commission. I don't appreciate
those comments. You've been making these remarks in different Commission meetings.
You simply don't like the result of the democratic process; it's just the way it is. Grow
up. Put your pants on, and deal with it, and move on.
Vice Chair Russell: Not at all. Not at all. And there's no "holier than thou "feeling
here, whatsoever. I respect the democratic process. I've reached my hand out since you
won your first round, and I'm waiting to shake that hand when you're ready.
Chair Hardemon: So I'd like to -- I would like for -- to propose another amendment to
the motion that's been made. There are two organizations that I m appointed to; the
Greater Miami Convention and Visitors Bureau that I've also diligently served on.
There used -- if you speak to the president of the organization, he will say -- and he says
it loudly and he says it proudly everywhere he goes, "Commissioner" --
Commissioner Carollo: Who's that? Who's the president of that; the president of the
organization?
Chair Hardemon: Of the GMCVB (Greater Miami Convention and Visitors Bureau) ?
Commissioner Carollo: Yeah.
Chair Hardemon: Bill Talbert.
Commissioner Carollo: Oh, Talbert, oh, that guy.
Chair Hardemon: So Bill Talbert will --
Commissioner Carollo: Talbert's not serious, come on.
Chair Hardemon: -- well, he will -- Bill Talbert is the president of the GMCVB, which
has a serious role within Miami -Dade County, and he will explain to everyone that I
never missed a meeting, and it actually was -- it was very tv ue for many years until I was
absent, out of town, and I had to miss a meeting. So I always will add to it that you can
remember. But -- so that organization, as well as the Solid Waste Advisory Committee
that I've been diligently serving on. What my amendment will be, will be to have those
two appointments be to Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla, as well. Would you accept
that amendment?
Commissioner Diaz de la Portilla: I will.
Chair Hardemon: Any further discussion? Seeing none --
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Commissioner Carollo: Don't give hint any more. Now you're going to bog hint down.
Chair Hardemon: --all in favor say "aye."
Commissioner Reyes: Aye.
Chair Hardemon: All against?
Vice Chair Russell: Nay.
Commissioner Carollo: Aye.
Chair Hardemon: Motion passes, 3-2.
Commissioner Carollo: Can we all get along now?
Todd B. Hannon (City Clerk): I'm sorry, Chair. Was that 4-1 ?
Chair Hardemon: 3-2.
Mr. Hannon: 3-2; my apologies.
S1.6 DISCUSSION ITEM
7115 MAY BE WITHDRAWN
Commissioners A DISCUSSION REGARDING WAIVING NOISE PROHIBITIONS AND
and Mayor EXTENDING HOURS OF ALCOHOL SALES FOR SUPER BOWL 2020
RELATED EVENTS INCLUDING WAIVERS FOR ADDITIONAL
PROPERTIES THAT MAY BE PROPOSED AT THE JANUARY 23, 2019
CITY COMMISSION MEETING.
ADJOURNMENT
MOTION TO:
Withdraw
RESULT:
WITHDRAWN
MOVER:
Joe Carollo, Commissioner
SECONDER:
Alex Diaz de la Portilla, Commissioner
AYES:
Hardemon, Russell, Diaz de la Portilla, Carollo, Reyes
Note for the Record. For minutes referencing Item SI.6, please see "Order of the
Day" on the regular agenda.
END OF SUPPLEMENTAL ITEMS
The meeting adjourned at 10:10 p.m.
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